Episode 26 – The Climb – Recap
By Winter Is Coming on in Recap.

Tormund Giantsbane

We’ve completed “The Climb”. Now it’s time to take in the view. Read on to find out my thoughts on tonight’s episode and then share yours in the comments below.

Spoiler Note: This post is for those who have read A Storm of Swords. As such the post itself and the comments will contain spoilers. If you haven’t read ASoS yet, you can discuss this episode in our non-book reader recap. Thanks!

The episode opens beyond the Wall, where Sam and Gilly are huddled around a campfire. Sam reveals that he was a highborn and then sings Gilly a song about the Seven.

In Harrenhal, Jaime and Brienne dine with Roose Bolton. Roose reveals that he is returning Jaime to King’s Landing but that Brienne will not be going with him. Jaime presses the issue, but gives in when he realizes that Roose has the (*ahem*) upper hand.

In Riverrun, the Frey envoys, Lame Lother and Black Walder, arrive to negotiate with Robb. For their father’s army, they demand Harrenhal and the hand of Edmure in marriage. Edmure balks, but relents when the Blackfish (“The laws of my fist compel your teeth”) and Robb convince him that it is his duty.

Over in King’s Landing, more awkward marriage negotiations are taking place. Olenna Tyrell attempts unsuccessfully to get Loras out of having to marry Cersei, while Tyrion and Cersei are having to cope with the partners their father has arranged for them. While Cersei hopes for Jaime to arrive to save her from this mess, Tyrion has no such hope. He breaks the news of the engagement to a distraught Sansa. Elsewhere, Littlefinger appears to have outmaneuvered Varys and Ros pays the price.

In the Riverlands, Arya and the Brotherhood encounter Melisandre. She is there to collect Gendry but first talks shop with Thoros, where we learn a bit about his mission. She marvels at Beric’s collection of fatal wounds and is astounded when Thoros tells her he has brought him back six times. Before she leaves, Arya confronts her, accuses her of being a witch and saying she wants to hurt Gendry. Melisandre responds to her accusations with a prophecy: “I see a darkness in you. And in that darkness, eyes starring back at me. Brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes. Eyes you will shut forever. We will meet again.”

Meanwhile, Theon continues to receive punishment at the hands of the mysterious “Boy”. He plays a game with Theon, in which he has to guess where he is and who has captured him. Theon guesses that he is at Karhold and that he is one of Rickard Karstark’s sons. “Boy” tells him he is right… but then does an about-face, tells Theon he has lied to him, and gleefully removes the skin from his finger for guessing wrong.

In the North, Bran and company are continuing towards the Wall. Osha and Meera are at each other’s neck over how to skin a rabbit. Bran brokers a truce between them, when Jojen starts having a sezure. He awakes to say he’s had a vision of Jon Snow.

Jon and Ygritte are preparing to scale the Wall with the rest of the wildings. Ygritte tells him she knows his “secret” but she will keep quite as long as he is loyal to her. Halfway up the Wall, the ice cracks and Jon and Ygritte fall. As they are dangling high above the ground, Orell begins frantically cutting the line, before they can pull him and Tormund off the Wall as well. Jon is able to swing to safety just as the line snaps. In the final monotogue, the wildlings safely reach the top of the Wall, while Littlefinger ends his speech about “the climb”. Jon and Ygritte look out over the rolling tundra of the Gift, as the sun sets beyond the Wall to the east, and kiss.

What I Liked

The Climb – The scaling of the Wall was epic. It was major motion picture quality. The ice cracking and falling off of the Wall was exactly how I imagined it. And I like that they had Orell attempt to cut Jon and Ygritte loose. It really adds to their rivalry. Also the romance and chemistry that some seemed to find lacking in Jon and Ygritte’s story so far showed up here. That final scene was one quite possibly one of the most romantic scenes in the whole show so far.
Fire-making 101 with Gilly – Speaking of romantic scenes, the one between Sam and Gilly was also quite touching. And it also confirmed something that I was worried might get cut…. Sam the Slayer is coming!
Olenna and Tywin – What a great scene! These two play off each other so well. Legends. I can’t get enough of the Queen of Thorns. I lost it at “a sword swallower through and through!”
Little Bird – Poor, poor Sansa. She missed the boat… literally. Sophie Turner is doing a great job of showing Sansa’s emotional roller coaster of a season so far.
The One True God – I have to say I really, really like this change. I loved the interplay between Thoros and Melisandre. Was Thoros’ “mission” ever mentioned in the books? If not, I like that addition to his backstory. I also liked getting to hear some High Valyrian outside of Essos. And I loved Arya and Melisandre’s interaction. And did they just drop a future book spoiler?

What I Didn’t Like

Pouring on the sadism – I know the books aren’t all fun and games but I find it hard to stomach some of the sadistic scenes the show trots out on occasion. The ones in the books can be hard to read about, but it’s even worse watching it on TV. And this episode had a good bit of that. The Theon scenes were particularly painful (no pun intended). Although I was thankful that Ros joined Irri as another in the list of off-screen deaths. I don’t think I could have stomached another sadistic torture and death scene.
Littlefinger continues to twirl his moustache – I know this ship has sailed, but I’m just not a fan of how evil they have made Littlefinger in the show. He was one of my favorite characters in the books, despite his more unsavory aspects. Yeah, he was selfish and ambitious and could be calculating when he needed to be, but he wasn’t cruel. The Littlefinger of the show is not only more transparent in his ambition, but seems to take pleasure in stabbing as many people in the back as he can on his way up the ladder. I’m not really a fan.

While this episode definitely didn’t approach the quality of the last few episodes, it was still a good episode with some excellent scenes. It was more of an intermediary episode, dealing with the continued aftermath of some of the shocking events of earlier episodes while setting the table for even more shocking events to come. The stand-outs for me were the Melisandre change, the scenes in King’s Landing and the scaling of the Wall.

What did everyone else think? Share your thoughts in the comments and vote in the poll!


812 Comments

  1. chase
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

    hodor?

  2. Kevin Moore
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

    My lord, I enjoyed the Theon scene. Looking forward to next weeks ep

  3. Scott
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    The writers are stamping on the gnats and their success is glorious.

  4. lebaf.
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    ROS!!!!

  5. sockies
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

    I’m not happy about the way Ros died but I really am glad that she’s out of the way. I’m still bitter about how many scenes she got in season 1 compared to the hound.

  6. Direhound
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

    Melisandre talking to Arya gave me goosebumps. Theon scenes were almost unwatchable so I guess that’s accurate. I felt Jon and Ygritte were sweet and lovely. Not as great as last week but still good TV.

  7. Isabelle
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

    What a lovely closing image–helped to erase the horrible one that came before (glad that Joffrey took way more arrows to hit his target than Arya would have because he’s so incompetent, but still. Gruesome stuff). I need that soundrack right now because Jon and Ygritte’s theme is just lovely.

    And how badass was Roose?

  8. NewJeffCT
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    OK – now I’ve read Storm of Swords 3 times now – what did Mel mean when she told Arya that thing about the eyes before she said they’ll meet again? Was that a reference to Jaqen and the Faceless Men, or a substitute for Arya’s wolf dream? Something else?

  9. sedeyus
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    You know what I hate about Ros’ death? It was clearly a smack from D&D to Ros haters. Sorta of, “There, are you happy now? She died in a brutal way. What’s wrong with you people?!” But let’s be honest here; the character sucked. Her scenes sucked. She should have never been written into the show. Her original purpose was sexposition, then her scenes became all about D&D’s egos and the fact they were pissed no one liked their one original character. Let’s all move on.

  10. LordDavos12
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    I really enjoyed the Littlefinger speech, along with the Thoros/Mel conversation. I have a quick question though; when Mel was talking about Arya looking back with all these other eyes, is she talking of her warging her is it more about the Faceless Men?

  11. Ryan
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    I really enjoyed it. I also want to believe they were referencing future books

  12. erin
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    “It was more of an intermediary episode”

    Yep. My thoughts exactly. It set everything up for the rest of the season.

  13. LordDavos12
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    NewJeffCT,

    Dammit, I must have been typing when you submitted yours. Sorry, I wasn’t trying to duplicate your question!

  14. bliss_street
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    Meh.

  15. NewJeffCT
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    Isabelle:
    What a lovely closing image–helped to erase the horrible one that came before (glad that Joffrey took way more arrows to hit his target than Arya would have because he’s so incompetent, but still. Gruesome stuff). I need that soundrack right now because Jon and Ygritte’s theme is just lovely.

    And

    I thought Joff was just shooting her over & over, even though she may have already been dead – he’s just that sadistic a boy.

  16. leighannecahill
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    Hated this episode, though there were bright spots.
    I have to laugh when they say that the books are more sexist, I mean really?
    People that were only really shown in Sansa’s POV have literally had more screentime than her. Really beginning to think D&D do not get her character. At the start of A Storm of Swords, she thinks to herself to not trust anyone. And is extremely suspicious of anything that seems happy or friendly. I said a few episodes that looks like they will only bother giving her substantial scenes w Tyrion (because, while I LOVE hint – they love to pile him on) but apparently she’s not good enough for even that?
    So pissed that she lost the scene where she finds out, Sophie would have nailed it.

    Don’t even get me started on what they’re doing w Cat, by the time episode nine rolls around I will have no sympathy for Robb AT ALL. Another character the shows focuses on that is barely seen in the books, it hasn’t worked out well for them – has it?
    The last scene with Ros was so unnecessary, why not have her killed like a normal person.

  17. Hollyoak
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    You’re wrong.

    sedeyus:
    You know what I hate about Ros’ death? It was clearly a smack from D&D to Ros haters. Sorta of, “There, are you happy now? She died in a brutal way. What’s wrong with you people?!” But let’s be honest here; the character sucked. Her scenes sucked. She should have never been written into the show. Her original purpose was sexposition, then her scenes became all about D&D’s egos and the fact they were pissed no one liked their one original character. Let’s all move on.

  18. michael mcg
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

    I Love Arya……and I do hope that was a book six or seven spoiler. Obsidian blade looked sweet

  19. Lefty
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

    I enjoyed seeing Westeros from atop the wall. I’m not sure if we’ve ever seen the southern view before.

  20. Andrew
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

    I thought Mel was definitely referencing Arya as a FM.

  21. Yellow Dog
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

    Ditto on the romance for Sam and Jon – the chemistry that was missing for both couples showed up tonight.

    And we WILL see the SLAYER!

    If we’re ever going to hear Tormund’s story, it will be next week – the BEAR episode.

    I loved the way Jaime (who is still, and will always be, a shit) caught Brienne’s hand just as she grabbed the knife – he knows her so well.

    So, did Tywin lie to Olenna about his youthful indiscretions or is he really that uptight?

    Very disappointed Ros died – do we really need more proof of what Joffrey is? Now, if Margery were to find out ….

  22. Darquemode
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

    I absolutely hated the literal climb in the episode.

    It was like Michael Bey directed it. Natural disasters, bad overly emotional scoring, last-second rescues and then it is topped off with a kiss with a gorgeous vista as a backdrop. Bleh!

    Outside of that one scene (and Theon torture porn too) I enjoyed the episode. It was probably the weakest of the season, bu still had some amazing moemnts.

    Loved the mockery of Loras by his grandmamma! XD

    I do not find Melisandre at all attractive so every man stopping what they were doing to look at her and drool seemed false to me, but people’s opinions vary of course….

    I did enjoy Melisandre talking to Arya though. that was nice addition and spooky!

    I am very glad that they only showed the aftermath of the Ros death scene and not Joffrey killing her. One torture scene is enough (too much) for the episode.

    I love the Brotherhood without Banners!
    I want an entire spin-off series of their adventures in the Riverlands! XD

    Here are this week’s episode extras:
    http://www.spoilertv.com/2013/05/game-of-thrones-episode-3×06-climb.html

  23. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    Promo for The Bear and the Maiden Fair: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6Bo1kSpDAk

  24. Shmurb
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    I loved it. I think it’s fair to say, 6 episodes in, that Season 3 is the best season of the show so far.

  25. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    We got a Hob reference and a Darreon reference! Happy to see the dragonglass dagger.

    The boy and his Karstark fake out was kind of funny before the sheer flaying terror began. Iwan does the best crazy eyes I have ever seen.

    Poor Sansa. I just cringed through every one of her scenes. Can’t wait to see how Shae reacts to the engagement.

    The Melisandre scene was really good, but I fear for the effects on Gendry’s story. He’s still with the BWB and a R’hllor convert in the books. I would think he would not want anything to do with them now. Whatever problems the change caused might be worth it for that fantastic conversation with Arya. I’ve been waiting for the show to start delving into her dark side.

  26. charles
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    give me more Brian cogman writing episodes and i;ll die happy. The guy should be writing more than one ep a season, then maybe we woudn’t get bad writing like we got 75% of this episode. In that varys-little finger scene, i swear i kept picturing him twirling long mustachios while laughing maniacally at how ebuuuul he is.

    Than theon storyline? what a mess.

  27. Yago
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    I really liked this. And I don’t see what the problem is with Theon scenes, I loved this one again. That little bastard. It wasn’t really graphic (?), so what’s the problem?

    Also I thought LF was really good. No, he doesn’t enjoy backstabbing in the books, but I don’t get the feeling this was done because he’s cruel, but because he had to make a point. To Varys, that he shouldn’t be messed with. Well, to everyone actually. Betraying him is not a good idea, and they should know that.

  28. Bgap
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    I agree. Wall climbing, Arya, Mel, BWB scenes = awesome. But too much Theon torture. 1/2 that much would’ve be fine. Instead, I would have preferred even a few more seconds of 1. Tyrion telling Sansa of their wedding. Just on him, and then could have cut before seeing her reaction (shown later over LF’s VO.) 2. Jof shooting one final arrow into Ros. Show him shooting the arrow then a slow pan to her, already dead.
    My 2 cents. Still a good episode.

  29. Alison
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

    For me, torture is good, ’cause I just think of later Theon in those scenes. I don’t remember from the books that Arya and Melisandre meet, but I’ve been reading each book the moment it’s released and Storm of Swords is a long time ago in my reading life. I loved the climbing the wall scenes, and I think I saw both the land they looked at behind and the land they saw ahead as being very much the same – was that just me?

  30. Zack
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

    Littlefinger to me is the show’s weak link. I don’t know if it’s all on Gillen or the writers or what but I just….consistently the worst scenes in any episode.

    I may be in the minority here but I’m digging the Theon scenes immensely. Alfie and that other guy are amazing and this is about the only way they could get my favorite actor from last season to feature prominently in the show this year. I’ll take it.

    I loved the Jaime/Brienne/Roose part and Bran/Meera/Osha. Meera is cute :) I want more with them! I thought it was a solid 9/10

  31. Isabelle
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

    Damn, I just had to hit post before I could finish properly. Anyway, Roose’s line to Jaime was so brilliant–he HAD to rub it in, didn’t he? ; )

    Charles Dance and Diana Rigg hit it out of the park, of course, even when one seemed to be one-upping the other. And at least Sansa knows about her impending nuptials–less cruel than it being sprung upon her that morning.

    I don’t know if I like that the Brotherhood (literally) sold Gendry out. I understand the need to do that plot-wise, so Melisandre could get her hands on some king’s blood, but would a man like Beric have allowed it? Really? Even for gold? I didn’t think his faith in the Red God was that fervent, either, to the point of allowing a boy to be taken for god knows what.

  32. Rahbur
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

    Loved Mel, BwB, Arya! Loved. I have to disagree with the torture/sadism issue. I literally was *squirming* when I read the Theon chapters in ADwD. Those we tough, tough chapters, but the best in the book. GRRM knows how to make his audience uncomfortable, which is a good thing. You aren’t meant to be comfortable while reading those kinds of events. If you ARE, the author isn’t connecting you to those characters. The Theon scene, for me,was tamer than it could have been. Alfie and Iwan are incredible in those scenes. i completely got lost in the moment with them. The Ros scene…unexpected, but visually striking. It conveyed exactly what happened in that room without having to show it in action. It took me a while to warm up to her, but I liked Ros. She was just starting to play the game.

  33. JoffreyTrueKing
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

    Well, I for one think that this episode made Littlefinger a better character than what we’ve seen since Season 2. He somehow looked like a real threat, not someone so open about what does he want and what his goals are (which we can simply guess in the books). If I say one character was truly ruined by D&D was him, this episode saved him just a little bit, if not made him great again.

    And I liked Ros’ death shown over his monologue, and if they were getting with this since the beginning I can simply say: wow. I was starting to dig Esme’s character since she started cimbing the pit, and what a better way of conveying the cold and backstabbing courtworld than making her fail miserably.

    I also want to believe this is foreshadowing for LF’s latter plotlines in the books, TWOW wise. I’m one of those who believe he will fail the climb by hands of Alayne Stone.

    And I also believe Melisandre’s prophecy of Arya is foreshadown Arya’s TWOW or ADOS storyline as well. D&D know things to come after ADWD, I was waiting some bits of foreshadowing by their hands (seeing most of GRRM’s original have been cut)

  34. Loki
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

    That definitely was the best episode of the season. Love every little bit of Ramsay and waiting for more.

    Oh, and everything connected to climbing was awesome.

  35. T
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

    As much as I disliked the addition of Ros to the show, I finally liked what D&D decided to do with her….and now…..

  36. John W
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

    I wasn’t all too thrilled about the Arya/Tywin scenes last season but I definitely would love to see more Tywin/Olenna scenes.

    Well we won’t have Ros to kick around anymore.

  37. Maxwell James
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

    So long Ros. You had a good run; sorry you had to die at the hands of the two biggest douches on the show.

    Winter, couldn’t agree more about this episode in general – and Littlefinger in particular. The character in the books is ruthless and twisted – but not a sadist. It’s too bad D&D couldn’t just present him as he was on the page.

  38. LordDavos12
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    Yellow Dog:
    Ditto on the romance for Sam and Jon – the chemistry that was missing for both couples showed up tonight.

    And we WILL see the SLAYER!

    If we’re ever going to hear Tormund’s story, it will be next week – the BEAR episode.

    I loved the way Jaime (who is still, and will always be, a shit) caught Brienne’s hand just as she grabbed the knife – he knows her so well.

    So, did Tywin lie to Olenna about his youthful indiscretions or is he really that uptight?

    Very disappointed Ros died – do we really need more proof of what Joffrey is?Now, if Margery were to find out ….

    I really liked when Brienne stabbed his steak to hold it in place as well.

  39. gswelcome
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    I found the Sam scene to be filler myself and Theon torture was unnecessarily long as well. Found some of the dialogue throughout the episode to be wince worthy and poorer acting than usual. Overall the poorest episode of the season, Olenna-Tywin and the Wall climb did not save it unfortunately.

  40. Bryon
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    I have to disagree with your your thought on LF. I mean what we just saw does fall in line with what will happen at the Erie.

    the new show canon was fantastic tonight. Totaly agree BWOB change was great. I think it also show the lord of light is up for interpretation pending on who is connected to it, thoros v Mel.

    I love seeing how the pieces moved in this episode. I think once the season plays out those who disliked this episode will appreciate it more.

    just my 2 vents.

  41. Deva
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

    I Don’t like the Theon torture scenes at all. I really don’t care for the Thoros/ Melisandre/ Arya bit. But loved Tywin and Queen of Thorns. She’s a hoot. Charles Dance plays Tywin exactly as I pictured him. And Diana Rigg is wonderful! She played a great character on Dr Who last night too, by the way. I’m curious how Brienne/Jamie scene will play out next week.

  42. GoT
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

    The episode was horrible in general. Only Ramsay and Olenna Tyrell made it worthy to watch!

    I expect 3×07 and 3×08 to be better than this one, we need a uprising thrller before the Red Wedding

  43. JamesL
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    I posted this in the other thread but I will post it here about why Theons “arc” has been the biggest flaw of the season. Only book readers who know who Ramasy is will find anything remotely compelling about this mess of a storyline. They need to write the show for the casual viewers. It isn’t even much of a arc either, this plot has gotten a significant amount of screen time and has gone nowhere. Theon has been getting as much screen time, sometimes even more, than some of the very important characters in ASOS. If this is what they had planned for Theons arc this season than all they needed to do was have 1 scene with Theon being tortured by some mysterious guy in a basement. Why have give him so much screen time if they are not advancing anything about that plot when we could be spending time with more important characters. We are right back where we started in the beginning of the season with Theon being trapped in tortured in mysterious persons basement.

  44. superkick
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    BEing an ice climber…I thought the ice climbing scene was medicore at best. But thats just me being picky about realism.

  45. Clabog
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:44 pm | Permalink

    Count me as another who is loving the Theon/Ramsay arc this season. Alfie Allen is one of the show’s best performers, but this was Iwan Rheon’s scene and man, did he bring it. I loved the bit with the horn.

  46. Valdred Dethstorm
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    Really? I mean, really, Winter?
    Is it too difficult for you to stomach the torture or violent scenes? I’m not mocking you, or being sarcastic, please don’t take offence. It’s just surprising that you’d say something like that in the “Stuff I didn’t like” part of the recap.
    The books are way ‘worse’ in the sadism and violence department, also plenty of dogs getting stabbed with spears! (I didn’t like to imagine that to be honest…Harma the Dogshead, I’m looking at you) If people went nuts with Lady’s death in S1 they’d ask for the show to be banned if D&D kept such parts of the books.
    It’s not like this episode was gory or something like SAW or HOSTEL. Pretty tame material in my opinion. A finger getting pinched and someone pinned to a bed with crossbow bolts. And the killing happened off-screen. Big deal.
    Anyway, different people, different opinions.

  47. Mark
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    I felt this episode was a bit uneven. I thought it could have been excellent, but instead of one or two sequences/scenes holding it back, there were a few more rough edges than some of the other episodes that just had one or two.

    Though not sequentially the first thing that bothered me, the first thing I noitced consciously that bothered me was Ramsay tells Theon he’s correct about the Karhold stuff and then admitting he was a liar. Everything before that was excellent, even in that scene itself, but I didn’t understand the point of that. We already know this guy is untrustworthy. Was it supposed to reinforce this malicious playfulness? Seemed unnecessary and more confusing than anything. You don’t have to reveal he’s at the Dreadfort, but playing it this way will just be more confusing for new viewers when that reveal is made.

    The other three things I thought fell a little short actually weren’t entirely this episodes fault, and on their own might have been fine, but felt awkward because of things that didn’t quite work in previous episodes.

    The first was the scene between Sansa and Loras. It just felt more contrived than charged, with Loras saying all the wrong things and Sansa doing her best not to notice. I’m not sure how else they could have done that to make it a little bit more subtle, but I agree more now than before that it was problematic having Loras just kind of sleep around with Littlefinger’s spy. It all would have played better if they’d somehow made the focus of Loras’s distraction more about his sadness over Renly.

    The second was Littlefinger’s speech. I don’t know who told him he had to say everything like he was fighting strep throat, but it irks me. He did such a good job the first season, even if the character was a bit different, but I really feel Aiden Gillen’s performance has been a missed opportunity since the beginning of last season. He’s become very one dimensional. He doesn’t have to be as coy and playful as the LF in the books, but he doesn’t come off as someone who could school Colenth Hill’s Varys the way he did at all.

    The third thing was the stuff between Jon and Ygritte. I found myself wondering why I wasn’t moved by what was, in itself, admittedly, a beautiful closing moment, with Ygritte first seeing her home from the top of the Wall, and then Jon bringing here to first lay eyes on on his, and then them kissing. Again wonderfully shot scene, even wonderfully acted, but I just couldn’t put my finger on why I didn’t feel the chemistry. The problem is that they’ve just about missed out on the opportunity to build the tension in they’re relationship properly. Instead they had to beat us over the head with it by having Ygritte basically spell it out to a clueless looking Jon in the beginning of the episode, telling him she know’s he’s “still a Crow”. Having Jon save her from falling was a nice touch, but it still felt like it was too little too late. The good news here is they can still make up for it by properly executing the Battle for Castle Black and it’s emotional implications.

    @Winter

    I believe Thoros’s mission is covered in the books, but that he was actually sent to KL prior to Robert’s Rebellion to try and seduce the fire-loving Aerys to the faith. After the rebellion, Robert took a liking to him for his drinking prowess and kept him around. I also don’t mind how they’re handling the BwB/Melisandre crossover and I’m curious to see where it goes. I’m worried about poor Gendry! Will Davos save him instead of Edric?

    In terms of large deviations from the books, S3 is doing a much better job thus far than S2 did in general, and the flatter storylines are generally the ones where they watered down and altered the more minor details of things that did happen in the books. The straight from the books stuff is still excellent, and some of the marginally changed stuff is as well, too, that’s just where the seams continue to show a bit.

    Also very excited for the Sam the Slayer confirmation. I was on the edge of my seat in the opening wondering if it would happen there!

  48. B
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    It was good, a build up episode, but good. I loved the Thoros and Mel, Arya Gendry bits. Thought the bit with Tyrion trying to get Shae out of the room was great too.

    I hated the Petyr Baelish over acting and hated the melodramatic Jon Snow Ygritte ending. Also, the Roz reveal should have been more brutal( like Jack the rip perish) with an arrow up her twat and her breasts shredded to bits with her innards wrapped around her throat in stuffed into her mouth. I really did not like that character, yes. But that is not the reason for me envisioning her demise, just that I want to see Joffery live up to that over the top introduction Baelish gave for his atrocity.

  49. Bardard
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    I found the montage accompanying Littlefinger’s Ladder/Climb monologue to be… disconcerting. Many analyses have talked about taking the show on its own terms, particularly adjustments in storytelling to play to the strengths of the visual medium. Montage is unquestionably an effective storytelling tool for film and television, but its use felt jarring in this instance. I’ll need to re-watch it to see if it bothers me again, because I can’t say much more than that it felt weird and somehow out of place. Perhaps it was just the too on-the-nose climax of Littlefinger’s “climb” speech juxtaposed against the completion of Jon and Ygritte’s ascent. It felt too cute and out of place with the visual language the show has used to this point.

    Has the show used a montage like that before, one I’m just not recalling? Anyone else particularly react to that sequence?

  50. LordDavos12
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    Clabog:
    Count me as another who is loving the Theon/Ramsay arc this season. Alfie Allen is one of the show’s best performers, but this was Iwan Rheon’s scene and man, did he bring it. I loved the bit with the horn.

    This was the episode (to me) that proved Rheon was a great casting choice. He did a great job tonight.

  51. Michel
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    Pyramids at Yunkai! So excited for the Bear and the Fair Maiden. I really want to see too how Martin will write Theon scene next episode.

  52. Terri Agy
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:47 pm | Permalink

    Really liked the conversation between Varys and Baelish. And Baelish is a jerk through and through. I think they are doing a great job of portraying that.

  53. Loki
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    Where is the poll? Why do you always forget the poll?

  54. Andrew
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    Solid episode. Wasn’t bad, just didn’t really have the epic moments like the past few but that’s totally fine. It’d be strange for a show to be made up of climactic episodes every week, haha. Now we’re starting the build up to the final climaxes of the season!

    Aside from the very last scene with Jon, the ending few minutes of this episode were so bleak and it made me sad. But as much as I love Sansa, i’m glad they chose to not actually show her hearing the news. It would have been an easy scene to mess up writing-wise, and having that moment cheapened would have been horrible. The scene with her crying as the boat sails away was perfect enough for me.

    I for one really enjoyed (as much as one could enjoy torture) the Theon scenes. When Iwan Rheon admitted defeat after being named a Karstark, that caught me off guard. It was brilliant. I could see all my friends curling their toes beside me!

    Here’s to FaBio giving Ros a curtain call. After all the shit she got from fans, she deserves a final, respectful farewell. Esme did a fine job. That was a depressing scene, too.

  55. Hounded
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    I thought it was a great episode. So surprised when it ended! I thought it had only been about 20 mins!

    What I liked -
    The Wall Climb – epic, tense and romantic!
    The Freys – nice touch with Lame Lothar’s leg
    Jaime/ Brienne/ Roose – just love those characters
    Tywin/ Olenna – great interaction!

    What I didn’t
    Yeah Littlefinger is a bit too evil methinks…
    Sansa’s “date” with Loras was funny in its awkwardness but felt a little pointless.

    This episode definitely laid the pieces of what’s to come for the rest of the season -

    Edmure/ Roslyn marriage pact was made
    Mel now has Gendry
    Jon and the Wildlings have reached in the seven kingdoms
    Sansa has found out she’s to marry Tyrion
    Jaime has found out he’s being allowed to go back to KL

  56. Isabelle
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    NewJeffCT,

    I’d like to think that he was just a little nitwit who couldn’t shoot very well. But you’re probably right : (

  57. B
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:49 pm | Permalink

    Sorry for my graphic aggressive comment, I didn’t really want to see that image but wanted to make a point that his build up for the heinous freakishness of the “friend” he gave Roz to seemed worse than the Joffrey fate.

  58. gisizzlah
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    WHAT!!!! For the first time I disagree with WIC’s comments …. I love that we get to see how horrible house bolton is…. it really makes for great tv…. and I for one when reading the books felt littlefinger was as conniving as he is portrayed….

    This episode rocked!
    Pouring one out for ros…….
    Hodor….

  59. Mark
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    JamesL:
    I posted this in the other thread but I will post it here about why Theons “arc” has been the biggest flaw of the season.Only book readers who know who Ramasy is will find anything remotely compelling about this mess of a storyline. They need to write the show for the casual viewers. It isn’t even much of a arc either, this plot has gotten a significant amount of screen time and has gone nowhere. Theon has been getting as much screen time, sometimes even more, than some of the very important characters in ASOS. If this is what they had planned for Theons arc this season than all they needed to do was have 1 scene with Theon being tortured by some mysterious guy in a basement. Why have give him so much screen time if they are not advancing anything about that plot when we could be spending time with more important characters. We are right back where we started in the beginning of the season with Theon being trapped in tortured in mysterious persons basement.

    I see what you’re saying, but I disagree. I actually think this is a pretty niftily handled and necessary element for the show, even if a bit messy. Ramsay’s character DOES need to be set up prior the events of books 4 and 5. They could have done it by keeping the Reek storyline intact, but that wouldn’t have given us as much of a glimpse at Ramsay’s pure cruelty, just his deviousness. We get the cruelty aspect in the books through the Hornwood inheritance. Plus they would have had to cut Alfie Allen for the better part of two seasons. Handling it this way, they’re introducing us to the character, creating a mystery, and retaining Alfie Allen, who is absolutely a necessary character down the road. It’s not exactly “neat” but it does wrap up a lot of complicated and time consuming ends into a package.

  60. Sunny
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    I can’t wait for the next episode when all the book purists will think all the changes are awesome and the Theon storyline is good again.

  61. Joon Snoo
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:51 pm | Permalink

    I found the Jon/Ygritte romance stuff very hamfisted and poorly written, personally. The amount of cheese spilling out of my television during that last shot was at record levels. Granted I wasn’t particularly fond of Ygritte in the books, but Ygritte in the show takes the annoyance to another level. Regardless, the way they’ve handled the wall climb signals a major change in Jon’s storyline in coming episodes that I’m a bit nervous about. (e.g. so few wildlings making it over the wall and Tormund being one of them. As Martin said, it’s like stepping on a butterfly.)

  62. The Loon
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:51 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    No James they don’t…book readers are people too…and Theon’s arc is amazing this season…they paid lip service to the casual viewer tonight letting you know it’s a mystery who boy is…the casual viewer is Theon…enjoy the torture

  63. MyBFFTheHound
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:52 pm | Permalink

    Bardard:
    I found the montage accompanying Littlefinger’s Ladder/Climb monologue to be… disconcerting. Many analyses have talked about taking the show on its own terms, particularly adjustments in storytelling to play to the strengths of the visual medium. Montage is unquestionably an effective storytelling tool for film and television, but its use felt jarring in this instance. I’ll need to re-watch it to see if it bothers me again, because I can’t say much more than that it felt weird and somehow out of place. Perhaps it was just the too on-the-nose climax of Littlefinger’s “climb” speech juxtaposed against the completion of Jon and Ygritte’s ascent. It felt too cute and out of place with the visual language the show has used to this point.

    Has the show used a montage like that before, one I’m just not recalling?Anyone else particularly react to that sequence?

    I definitely did, it felt so out of place within the show. Much more jarring than the music after Jaime lost his hand.

  64. Sunny
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:53 pm | Permalink

    Joon Snoo:
    I found the Jon/Ygritte romance stuff very hamfisted and poorly written, personally. The amount of cheese spilling out of my television during that last shot was at record levels. Granted I wasn’t particularly fond of Ygritte in the books, but Ygritte in the show takes the annoyance to another level. Regardless, the way they’ve handled the wall climb signals a major change in Jon’s storyline in coming episodes that I’m a bit nervous about. (e.g. so few wildlings making it over the wall and Tormund being one of them. As Martin said, it’s like stepping on a butterfly.)

    You do realize there were other wildlings, not all of them were shown climbing.

  65. Phil
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:53 pm | Permalink

    kinda meh episode. Some good scenes, a lot of added stuff I didn’t really care for.

    I was a little confused at the end, becasue Varys is still talking to Littlefinger (in voice over) yet that is clearly supposed to be Littlefinger’s boat leaving, but I get that that scenes happens a bit later. I sorta wish they had told Sansa about her marrying Tyrion a little earlier in the episode to have more time for her to process it, but hopefully that will be in next week. Also not sure about why they added the Osha/Meera rivalry, Osha should part with Bran on good termsSeems like they are just trying to fill up Bran’s story, and it didn’t work for me.

    is Sam the Slayer going to be in this or not, becasue they keep teasing us, but then not doing it. Also does it count if Gilly’s the only one around to witness it, would the Night’s Watch believe her? It looses something if the other men don’t name him the slayer

  66. Mark
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

    Oh I was also super intrigued by Mel’s comments to Arya. Was the eye color thing a nod to book readers? If so, kudos, just subtle enough to work. And when will they meet again? It’s really, really tempting to start theorizing even past where Martin has written based on that comment…..

  67. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

    It is pretty GRRM-like of D&D to kill off Roz just as people were starting to like her. We did need a reason to hate Joffrey again. I was worried they were starting to soften him.
    It was a good choice to not show Tyrion telling Sansa about their marriage. It would have been repetitive to hear the whole thing again. We got to see her reaction as she watched LF’s boat sail away. Sophie was great as usual.

  68. JamesL
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

    I sometimes wonder if David and Dan have a Lennon/Mccartney type thing going. Like maybe sometimes just one of them writes an episode but no matter what it gets credited to both of them because sometimes their episodes are great with great writing and sometimes they suck and have shitty writing. If it is true than which ever one of them is responsible for majority of this meh episode should not be writing very much in future seasons.

  69. Michel
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

    I felt the montage of scenes with the speak strange too when I saw it , because it was the first time in 25 episodes the show did that. But I think it was perfect!

  70. Joon Snoo
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

    Sunny,

    Mance only sent 20 people with Tormund in the show, did he not? And many of them fell.

  71. Mark
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

    Also not sure about why they added the Osha/Meera rivalry, Osha should part with Bran on good termsSeems like they are just trying to fill up Bran’s story, and it didn’t work for me.

    I was a bit iffy on this too, but my guess is it's going to be the motivation for splitting the group up. I'm willing to leave the book open on it until it concludes–they did need a way to split them up and this could be the beginning of it. It doesn't necessarily mean Bran and Osha leave on bad terms. It may have just partly been to show that Meera is also capable of handling wilderness survival, even if her strengths are different.

  72. Tenesmus
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

    sedeyus,

    You know so much, how did you figure it out?

  73. Loki
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

    THANK YOU.

  74. The Pain Yak
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

    Definitely one of the weakest episodes of Season 3, but nowhere near the lows occasionally reached by Season 2.

    Dead Ros was a jolt to the system but glad we won’t have to waste anymore time on her ‘character arc’. Every minute she was on screen was a minute that could have been used for more important characters.

    I wonder when they’re going to reveal who Theon’s torturer really is and what really happened at Winterfell? The RW episode, I suspect, so that we can feel the Bolton’s treachery creeping up on us right before the big moment.

  75. Michel
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:58 pm | Permalink

    Was Charlotte Hope the girl that opens the door of Sansa room? Some people were saying that when some photos leaked, but I couldn’t recognize

  76. Isabelle
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:59 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger: Whatever problems the change caused might be worth it for that fantastic conversation with Arya. I’ve been waiting for the show to start delving into her dark side.

    So true. That and it was so satisfying to hear Arya call Melisandre a “witch” to her face–that girl knows no fear. I’m not a huge fan of the idea of Melisandre visiting the Brotherhood, but that scene was wicked.

    One more thing to note–it was absolutely adorable when Ygritte teased Jon about his, erm, talents : ) I also liked that we saw a bit of Tormund’s friendly nature. We haven’t spent nearly enough time with these characters, but when we do, I always enjoy it.

  77. Scotty
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:00 pm | Permalink

    Am I the only one genuinely upset at Ros’ death?

  78. Arthur
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

    I think this was a great episode… It felt like a roller coaster being cranked to the highest peek and you are ready for the thrilling decent. This episode was laying the foundations for many payoffs.

    The Jon Snow storyline was awesome and I really enjoyed the dialog and visuals. Before this episode Jon’s storyline has felt a little rushed and lack luster but this episode it was really good.

    Finally we get a little Meera backstory… She’s a huntress damnit! It was good to see the Reeds and like Jon’s scenes it was fun and entertaining.

    Ros… I have been a Ros hater only because previously she was always just kind of used as a doorway opening into some kind of whorehouse scene. That being said when I saw her tied up and that Joff used her as a living target dummy for his beloved crossbow I had mixed feelings… I felt sad and sick to my stomach about what he did to Ros while at the sametime happy she’s off the show.

    Overall this was a great episode D&D did a lot of foundation building in an entertaining way for the many big payoffs we all know are coming.

    I enjoyed all the changes from the books, plot changes from the books and character mergings thus far.

    The only people that will make a big stink about this episode, IMO, are the book purists who don’t understand a TV adaptation needs to change things…

    Awesome episode!

  79. Evilclosetmonkey
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:02 pm | Permalink

    Huh, usually agree with Winter but not this time. Thought the Theon scene was good, not the easiest to watch but well done. Littlefinger, eh. I don’t like how transparent they’ve made him but in the context of the show I liked his speech and as someone else said upthread, I think the Ros thing was done to make a point to Varys.

    Hated the Melisandre with the brotherhood endgame. Really rubbed me wrong that they sold him after he wanted to join them. I get Gendry replacing Edric hate the way they got there.

    Rest was a bit slow but pretty good. Finally building a relationship between Jon & Ygritte and Tormund starts to have a bit of a sense of humor. Hoping they manage to salvage Jon’s story after spending a 10 episodes butchering it.

  80. Lefty
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:02 pm | Permalink

    Mark:
    Oh I was also super intrigued by Mel’s comments to Arya. Was the eye color thing a nod to book readers? If so, kudos, just subtle enough to work. And when will they meet again? It’s really, really tempting to start theorizing even past where Martin has written based on that comment…..

    After that scene I was concerned, for the first time, that watching the show from this point on could spoil parts of the last two unpublished novels.

  81. Sunny
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:02 pm | Permalink

    Joon Snoo:
    Sunny,

    Mance only sent 20 people with Tormund in the show, did he not? And many of them fell.

    Yeah but one of the trailers showed a good 8 or so wildlings on the south side of the wall so I assume more survived but just weren’t shown. And also a handful of men with intimate knowledge of Castle Blacks defenses (Jon Snow) should be able to pick apart the Night Watch, especially considering the good part of the Night Watch strength died on the fist.

  82. Pipepro
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:03 pm | Permalink

    I was bored by this episode and sometimes after reading the books the storyline confuses me. I knew this episode was gong to be a filler. Look forward to Dany meeting her new lover. Pissed at George that next book isn’t ready. They really didn’t need to go that far with Theon being tortured but maybe it is his progression to the Reek character. There are a lot of sick sadistic characters. Little Arya to become an assassin wow George what drugs do you use lol.

  83. CoolHandLuque
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    Best episode of the season. I am seeing alot of ppl saying this episode was subpar. However, the pacing and sincerity of this episode were superb! Personally I loved the Theon scenes. Not so much because of the subject matter, but because that scene in particular had everyone firing on their A-Game. Everything from the acting to the dialogue to the cinematography (LOVE the way they have been lighting the dungeon scenes) and finally the directing feel honest and sincere, and more than anything else, that’s what I connected with when reading the books and now when I watch the show.

  84. David The Grey
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    I agree with most of what WiC noted. I liked the Climb well enough (especially when the ice chunk broke off sending one of the squads to their death), but didn’t care much for the romantic scene at top. I liked that Ygritte wanted to see what it looked like south of the wall, but the framing of the kiss with Jon Snow seemed too Hollywoodish to me. But don’t gete me wrong, I loved all of the rest of their interaction this episode.
    As for Theon’s torture, I thought it was totally necessary to show it. People need to understand just how far Boy is going, in order to understand Theon’s transformation. The Ros scene, though, disturbed me. Mostly it upset me because Varys promised her his protection, and wasn’t able to keep that promise. Poor, poor Ros. I can understand why Littlefinger did it – she betrayed him, after all – but why couldn’t he have just fired her and sent her packing back to the North? Guess Ros’s “rise” didn’t work out too well after all.

    The rest of the show was great, although I didn’t get the same feeling of intimacy from the character’s that I had the last two episodes. That leaves me wishing for the return of Alex Grave’s direction in some future episode or season. But I’d still give it a thumbs up. I liked Cersei and Tyrion’s talk, and how they both are concerned about their brother. And although it was just fillere, I did like seeing Bran and Co. again. And, I liked getting a little back story on Thoros of Myr, and thought it was cool how Melisandre expressed shock regarding Beric Dondarion. Pretty cool stuff!

    Next week looks awesome too.

  85. Lyn Corbray
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    Soooo… Curtain Call for Ros anyone?

  86. Joon Snoo
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:05 pm | Permalink

    Sunny,

    …but Jon isn’t among those who attack in the books, he’s with those defending against it, so my point stands

  87. LordDavos12
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

    Pipepro:
    I was bored by this episode and sometimes after reading the books the storyline confuses me. I knew this episode was gong to be a filler. Look forward to Dany meeting her new lover. Pissed at George that next book isn’t ready. They really didn’t need to go that far with Theon being tortured but maybe it is his progression to the Reek character. There are a lot of sick sadistic characters. Little Arya to become an assassin wow George what drugs do you use lol.

    You’re the first person I’ve ever heard say that.

  88. dobesol
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

    I am feeling very conflicted over this episode. The Robb scenes this whole season seem less important than the Theon story, and the torture is just feeling repetitive and boring, however cringworthy.
    Why isn’t the King in the North worthy of some action and where’s Grey Wind? I don’t feel like Robb has gotten good screen time, whether that’s because of his relative absence from book three or the director’s writing.
    Speaking of wolves, why haven’t we had any reference to Nymeria, especially in the riverlands? I was wondering why Bran has been the only Stark to have a connection, and yet we see other gods powers present in multiple characters, like Mel amd Thoros. Why no weirwoods North of the Wall? The old gods are getting the shaft, dammit!
    My mind is wandering, and writing on mobile so excuse my mess of thoughts.
    I do like Jon and Ygritte’s chemisty this season. It deserves special attention. Sansa’s tears got me, too. Thoros has been a pleasure to watch. And Lady Olena is just…priceless, what a score for the show.

  89. Isabelle
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:07 pm | Permalink

    Michel,

    Ooh, good spotting. Might be? Wasn’t there a clip of her in a trailer, as well?

  90. Spryte
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:07 pm | Permalink

    So where’s Ghost now?

  91. Sunny
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:07 pm | Permalink

    Also, as a huge Jon Snow fan, I felt this episode did his character the most justice since the first season. I loved Ygritte’s discussion with Jon about how she knew he didn’t turn his cloak when he first met Mance. That after the cave, she expects Jon to be loyal to her. I think this sets up the difficult choice he has, between his oath and a woman he is growing to love. It makes the decision far more powerful. I also thought they finally gave Tormund much needed characterization, by trying to save the others when the ice broke, I think they captured a side of Tormund that Jon grows to respect and admire.

  92. CoolHandLuque
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:07 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    The reason they are giving it so much screen time this season is because of the role he plays once we get to the seasons based on ‘Dance’ … Imagine the casual reader not seeing Theon at all for 2 seasons and now all of a sudden he is this shell of a human being. The amount of exposition that would require to catch the casual viewer up to speed would grind the show to a halt.

  93. The Pain Yak
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:08 pm | Permalink

    Scotty:
    Am I the only one genuinely upset at Ros’ death?

    Not so much upset at the death as at the abruptness of it. As someone above said, it felt less like a storyline thing and more like D&D purposefully offing her in the most anti-climactic, nasty way possible as a middle finger to the Ros haters.

  94. JamesL
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:08 pm | Permalink

    The Loon,

    No, his scenes have all been a waste of time and he is irrelevant to the story being told right now which is why is was not in ASOS and was reintroduced in the books when he was relevant to the story. This show only has 10 episodes a season and there are all these great story arcs in ASOS and we should be spending as much time we these stories as we can and for D&D to waste so much screen time on this Theon storyline is a ridiculous. I know they plan on revealing he is Rooses bastard son at the end of the season and thats fine but why all this Theon filler during the season. All we needed is to have one scene with Theon being tortured in mysterious guys basement and then at the end of the season reveal he is with Roose Boltons bastard and than they could have saved the Theon and Ramsay scenes for next season when the audience would have a better understanding of what is going on.

  95. Mark
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:08 pm | Permalink

    Lefty,

    It’s not the first time actually, unless I’m mistaken. The first season of GOT mostly aired before ADwD. It was unconfirmed who was talking in the Varys/Illyrio conversation in the books until ADwD, but in the show, which aired first, we see who it was. I do also believe Martin confirmed at one point it was these two, but I can’t remember if that was prior to the show or related to the fact that the show revealed it.

    That’s always the kind of spoilers I’d expected, if any. Fairly minor things, either ambiguous (like the Mel scene in this episode) or reveals for things that aren’t necessarily major spoilers, but somewhat significant, and that will be revealed shortly in the books anyway.

  96. Sunny
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    Joon Snoo:
    Sunny,

    …but Jon isn’t among those who attack in the books, he’s with those defending against it, so my point stands

    Yeah but they don’t know that.

  97. bitterpeople
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    WOw.

    Some people needs to chill. First, they complained about Ros for like 3 years. And then she dies, those people continues to complain. Do yourselves a favor: stop watching the show, if you’re gonna continue to be bitter about every little freaking change.

    Some people act like this is the worst show ever, yet cling to it every Sunday night. Seriously chill out and try enjoy life. D&D done a better job than anyone could.

  98. Ed
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    Where’s the LIKE button? Great, great, post, I totally agree. I know there’ll be some D&D apologist, but… Whatever, good riddance Ros.

    sedeyus:
    You know what I hate about Ros’ death? It was clearly a smack from D&D to Ros haters. Sorta of, “There, are you happy now? She died in a brutal way. What’s wrong with you people?!” But let’s be honest here; the character sucked. Her scenes sucked. She should have never been written into the show. Her original purpose was sexposition, then her scenes became all about D&D’s egos and the fact they were pissed no one liked their one original character. Let’s all move on.

  99. Anne
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    I really didn’t care for most of this episode. After 2 excellent episodes in a row, this was a real letdown. Only 3 or 4 scenes worked for me.

    Liked the Wall/Jon/Ygiritte
    Liked Tywin/Olenna
    Poor Sansa
    Robb/The Freys served its purpose, same with Sam/Gilly and Jaime/Bolton.

    the rest, meh.

    I’m convinced that D&D have no idea how to write Bran’s story to make it work. They’re having big trouble with the supernatural/magical elements of it. It’s just not coming across.

    I don’t care for the show’s version of Littlefinger.

    I had no emotional attachment to Ros, so that scene did nothing for me. I already hate Joffery.

    If last week was a 10, to me, this is a 5.

  100. The DarkStar
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    NewJeffCT,

    MEL/ARYA

    Mel was saying about a darkness in her (hatred/revenge) and eyes she is going to shut (people she will kill)

    Cercie has green
    Hound
    Ilyn Payne.

    She is going to kill those people.

  101. David The Grey
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    Hounded: Hounded

    Posted May 5, 2013 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    The Freys – nice touch with Lame Lothar’s leg

    And this is why I have to watch these episodes at least twice, if not more often! I didn’t even notice that. Thanks for pointing that out, will look for it on the next viewing.

  102. JamesL
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:11 pm | Permalink

    CoolHandLuque,

    I didn’t say leave him out for 2 seasons. This season is stuffed and they don’t have time for this repetitive Theon stuff. All Theon needed this season was 1 or 2 scenes not as much screen time as all the other characters with actually important story arcs in ASOS. The should have saved the Theon -Ramsay stuff for next season.

  103. Hounded
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:11 pm | Permalink

    Wait so

    is Castle Black just gonna be attacked by 3 wildlings???

  104. Lavignac
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:11 pm | Permalink

    Sunny: You do realize there were other wildlings, not all of them were shown climbing.

    In an earlier episode, Mance ordered Tormund to take 20 men… We’ve seen the 4 named characters plus another rope-team in the background make it to the top. So we have 8 to 16 wildling left to surprise Castle Black from the South… Doesn’t sound like a huge threat. I wonder how that’ll turn out.

  105. The Purist
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:11 pm | Permalink

    This is best episode of this season so far. Okay, many of other scenes were bland, but having them kill Ros off, puts it up there.

    To think Bryan Cogman scolded someone (not me… honest!) here on this site for hating Ros and told him to go back throwing darts at a picture of Ros. Now they pretty much did the same thing only worse (or in my case, better). Oh Cogman, you clever dog. If I had it my way, I would only let you and GRRM write the show, while D&D only job on the show will be to polish yours and GRRM’s boots.

  106. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:11 pm | Permalink

    Now that LF is out of town, how will they find an excuse to visit the brothel?
    Does anyone remember if Jojen greendreamed about Jon Snow in the books? I can’t remember.
    However terrible show Joffrey is, at least he did not disembowel any pregnant kitties.

  107. Defur4588
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

    I wonder if Edric storm is more important than he implies. With Gendry taking his place maybe that is what were supposed to find out in the winds of winter because martin told them how it ends and maybe edric is a player in the series and gendry has taken his place in the show??

  108. The Pain Yak
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

    Anyone else growing the sneaking suspicion that we won’t have a battle at Castle Black at all, not even in Season 4? That when Jon beats Tormund to Castle Black, Tormund will decide that the loss of surprise means their attack is doomed, causing them to return to Mance…or some other such excuse? Meaning that when Ygritte gets killed, it will be during Mance’s assault on the Wall?

    It seems to me they’ll need Tormund for when they start adapting DwD; a wildling Jon knows and respects to make his decisions there not look completely nuts. It also seems to me they might be interested in stretching Jon and Ygritte’s arc as far as they can, keeping the tension of their relationship alive right up until the Wildlings are finally broken by Stannis.

  109. Olaf
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

    I´m not very happy with how the show presents Petyr since it had startet. He has been and sadly still is if one can tell, one of the few characters that don’t literally come alive on screen such as most others do. But it’s an adaption, so we have to live with it.

    Glad that Ros is gone, though.

    And the melodrama ending can’t repair the mistakes they made during the Jon-Ygritte realtionship up to this point. Spoiler:I don’t believe many viewers will shed a tear once she speaks the magic words a final time later on this season.

    They still deliver a wonderful series if you sum up the other things they are doing perfectly, we should be thankful it’s that good.

  110. Hawk
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:14 pm | Permalink

    Mark,

    Point of note about Arya and Mel’s foreshadowing remark to her…Dareon has hazel (green) eyes…I suspect the three people made reference to have already been killed by Arya by the end of ADWD…

  111. Pyrrhus
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:14 pm | Permalink

    When Ros popped up dead at the end of the episode I felt like it was an apology for all the adaptations they made in the episode.

    Half expected Ramsay Snow to break out into Singin’ in the Rain.

    I’m slightly perturbed by the apparent merger of the Lord of Light and the Many Faced God.

  112. Andy Gavin (@asgavin
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

    The show is arguably less effective than the books with the POV characters, notably Jon, and strips some of the minor characters to the bone (like the Mountain). However, it consistently fleshes out the middling and borderline POV characters like Robb, Cersei, Varys, Littlefinger, Shae, Theon, Marg, and Joff. This episode really shows that off as it has a lot less action, but lays on the characterization thick to great effect. There is also more reoccurring thematic motives than usual, focusing on couples and marriage in particular. Good fun and as always, my detailed thoughts on the episode can be found on my blog.

  113. Lord of Fangs
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

    I thought Mel’s vision of Arya was very clearly her being blinded/wearing the different faces of the Faceless Men.

  114. Lana
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

    Wow people LOVE to complain… If you don’t like the Theon scenes how about you skip them… go take a bathroom break or something lol. Clearly D&D know what they are doing and they are doing these scenes for a reason. The torture was not even that bad and they are very necessary because Ramsay is a very important character and so is Theon. So I really don’t understand why so many people are complaining… would you rather see more talk about Podrick’s penis? Mmm no didn’t think so

  115. Ken
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

    During the closing montage of tonight’s episode, who was the girl bound and bloody with arrows piercing her body – was that Margaery???

  116. Shock Me Sane
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:18 pm | Permalink

    Just when Ros became a character I didn’t hate seeing on the screen, of course they off her. Perhaps a new, greater alpha sex-worker (I always lol at that term) will arise. Lord knows they have a minimum level of nudity per season clause so that the virginal neckbeards will still watch.

    Still, I think this episode is getting an extremely unfair amount of criticism, even from this fanbase that no one could possibly please. Thought the Mel changes were cool (also, book 6/7 insights happening there), the Theon part was nowhere near as gratuitous as some seem to be implying, the wall climb was cool and Jon and Ygritte actually finally found some chemistry. Aiden Gillen does continue to be the worst actor on the show though, I’ll agree with that.

    Dianna Rigg and Charles Dance continue to slay, as always.

  117. Jen
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

    I found the Theon scene to be FANTASTIC . I don’t even care if the casual viewers are confused, it wasn’t THAT long of a scene, and it was such a treat for those of us “in the now” … God, the horn blowing, Iwan’s fantastic take on the character, Alfie’s superb acting … can’t get enough. I’m giddy that the showrunners decided to include this stuff. I think it’s really important for down the line.

  118. Zack
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

    Evilclosetmonkey: Hated the Melisandre with the brotherhood endgame. Really rubbed me wrong that they sold him after he wanted to join them. I get Gendry replacing Edric hate the way they got there.

    Agreed. I expected them to try to convince him (with lies, or a version of the truth) and he’d willingly go. I’m not crazy about how it went.

  119. Mark
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:21 pm | Permalink

    JamesL:
    The Loon,

    No, his scenes have all been a waste of time and he is irrelevant to the story being told right now which is why is was not in ASOS and was reintroduced in the books when he was relevant to the story.This show only has 10 episodes a season and there are all these great story arcs in ASOS and we should be spending as much time we these stories as we can and for D&D to waste so much screen time on this Theon storyline is a ridiculous. I know they plan on revealing he is Rooses bastard son at the end of the season and thats fine but why all this Theon filler during the season. All we needed is to have one scene with Theon being tortured in mysterious guys basement and then at the end of the season reveal he is with Roose Boltons bastard and than they could have saved the Theon and Ramsay scenes for next season when the audience would have a better understanding of what is going on.

    Disagree. This storyline serves a number of purposes that are important on different levels.

    1. It replaces the Reek storyline, which is when we first meet Ramsay. Even though this happens during ACoK, with 20 episodes to cover ASoS, it makes sense to move some elements of ACoK into season 3 (and it’s also been suggested me may get some AFfC and ADwD in season 4).

    2. Yes, it keeps Alfie Allen in play.

    3. THIS IS THE CRUCIAL ONE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE MISSING. It replaces the Hornwood inheritance problem. This was the first mention we get of Ramsay, and introduces us to his pure cruelty and sadism, which is important to understand prior to his actual engagement in the story (which in the books happens primarily in ADwD). The Reek story introduces his deviousness and some particular character traits, but we’ve already learned how vile this character is from the Hornwood story. It will also help bridge the gap when the RW happens, since Roose’s character is a bit tamer, mostly out of necessity. Roose isn’t nearly as vicious as Ramsay, but we get a sense of how dark a person he is in the books through description of things that would be difficult to execute in the show–the way he speaks, the way he interacts with the other lords, the trick with Robett Glover and Duskendale, etc.

  120. Ser Osis of Liver
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:21 pm | Permalink

    Clabog:
    Count me as another who is loving the Theon/Ramsay arc this season. Alfie Allen is one of the show’s best performers, but this was Iwan Rheon’s scene and man, did he bring it. I loved the bit with the horn.

    This was both of their scenes but for different reasons. Iwan’s, for the obvious reason but Alfie’s were lost if you weren’t fully paying attention for a few brief seconds, and especially for those who may not be familiar with consentual BDSM. I will not be graphic or discuss anything in a prurient manner, but suffice to say, Alfie’s primal screams and thrashing on the St. Andrew’s Cross were more than just Alfie Allen playing Theon Greyjoy being tortured, or if it was he’s the best actor I’ve ever seen.

    I believe that was a very real and visceral reaction and one I have both seen and experienced (again, 100% consensually, with no flaying involved and with good friends!). Terrifyingly cathartic, for lack of a better term, but very powerful in real life. I really hope that Alfie gets to speak of that experience at some point, perhaps on the DVD extras or in a media interview because I’d like to hear his take on how that scene affected him personally, if at all. It was beautifully done, creepy as hell, and was even enough to make me turn away when they showed the finger, but still, a great scene.

  121. JamesL
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:21 pm | Permalink

    Lana,

    No, I would rather spend more time with characters who have important story arcs in ASOS. Theon and Ramsay will have their time to shine but these repetitive scenes are not necessary right now.

  122. Lavignac
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:21 pm | Permalink

    By the way, about Mel and Thoros exchanging Vala Morghulis, Valar Dohaeris…
    Isn’t that a saying of the Many-Faced God AKA Death, AKA the Great Other according to the R’hllor clergy… I know it’s supposed to be a common saying in Essos, but wouldn’t the priesthood of R’hllor avoid that saying from, basically, the “Devil”?

  123. shadowassassinbabby
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:21 pm | Permalink

    seems like the meeting of Mel and Arya makes it likely that the misdirection with Mel’s vision of the girl on the horse coming to the Wall / Mel sending Mance to Winterfell for Jeyne!Arya will be handled differently on the show. how will Mel get the Arya/Alys Karstark thing so wrong in the future if she’s met Arya? i always thought her vision of the girl on the horse, and her claim that it’s Arya, was the last bit of evidence that causes Jon to accede to sending Mance to the Bastard’s wedding.

    (also posted on the open thread)

  124. NoOne
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:22 pm | Permalink

    Sometimes after reading so many complaints about every minuscule detail I really wish the producers pulled a Legend of The Seeker, a Sy Fy original, a cheesefest so bad that the “book purists” complaints will be screams of terror.

  125. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:25 pm | Permalink

    Tip of the hat to Michael McElhatton as well. He is Roose Bolton. Whenever he comes on screen I can’t take my eyes off him. Even with NCW around.

  126. JamesL
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:25 pm | Permalink

    Shock Me Sane,

    Aiden wasn’t that bad in S1 but after S1 he decided to start having Littlefinger speak with the Dark Knights voice and it has thrown off his whole performance.

  127. Pipepro
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:26 pm | Permalink

    I don’t know how they can cover all that needs to happen in this season, we have 2 weddings and tyrion killing his father. I think that would get viewers attention to end on that part.

  128. JonSnow
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:28 pm | Permalink

    I really liked Ros and Esme Bianco, and I think it’s a pity that she’s been subject to so much fan hate (the negative side of fandom has really shown its ugly head when it comes to Ros).

    She was far more interesting and a better actress than some other actresses on the show (whose names I won’t mention; no need to offend these actors in public). Bianco was perfect for the role: She was not only beautiful, but she was also charming and elegant. I will miss her character.

    I must admit that her scene was both disturbing and sensual at the same time. Seeing such a beautiful woman murdered like that, with her nightgown and body ripped apart by arrows, was a sad sight. Imagine how it must have felt suffering a slow death like that. She must have been in a lot of pain. Ironically, there was no sign of pain in her facial expression, but her dead, empty stare was unsettling enough. Ros was one of the truly kind characters in the show. What did she do to deserve that? I knew that Joffrey was cruel, but he’s obviously a sadist as well.

    WinterIsComing.net.
    Please do a “Curtain Call”-article on Esme Bianco!
    I think she deserves some credit, even though many people disliked her character. I know that many people liked her as well, so it would be a nice opportunity for her fans to thank her!

  129. Ser Osis of Liver
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:28 pm | Permalink

    My take on the episode, overall, was “meh.” I agree with Winter on most of the points. Glad to see Ros gone (“many a wrong will be made aright” came to mind). Also glad to see Lame Lothar and Black Walder and a shoutout to Three Fingered Hob.

    With regard to the Mel/Arya interaction, I believe that Mel was playing the role of the Ghost of High Heart in that scene, when she meets Arya, albeit diverging from the GoHH’s menaing. “The dwarf woman studied her with dim red eyes. ‘I see you,’ she whispered. ‘I see you, wolf child. Blood child. I thought it was the lord who smelled of death…’ She began to sob, her little body shaking. ‘You are cruel to come to my hill, cruel. I gorged on grief at Summerhall, I need none of yours. Begone from here, dark heart. Begone!’. She sees darkness.

    As for possible spoilers for upcoming books, I think it was indeed, but was not the first. I believe the Dany’s vision in the throne room in the House of the Undying was also very much a real spoiler.

  130. bitterpeople
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:28 pm | Permalink

    NoOne:
    Sometimes after reading so many complaints about every minuscule detail I really wish the producers pulled a Legend of The Seeker, a Sy Fy original, a cheesefest so bad that the “book purists” complaints will be screams of terror.

    no please. no everyone should pay for the sins of the purists lol

  131. LordDavos12
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:29 pm | Permalink

    Defur4588:
    I wonder if Edric storm is more important than he implies. With Gendry taking his place maybe that is what were supposed to find out in the winds of winter because martin told them how it ends and maybe edric is a player in the series and gendry has taken his place in the show??

    Could go the other way as well if Edric is offed soon (soon is relative…probably 2-3 years at least for next book?) and Gendry being important.

  132. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:30 pm | Permalink

    Wag of the flayed finger to the people who think the Theon/Boy scenes should be cut. Everything that happens is relevant for later. Also, if Theon wasn’t on screen for a year or two the casual viewer would forget about him and not care when he returns.
    I sometimes look in on the unspoiled forum on TWOP and the mystery of “boy’s” identity is one of the most popular topics. It is holding the interest of non readers. My non reading friends talk about it as well.

  133. Michel
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:33 pm | Permalink

    Wow, surprised that people don’t like Aidan Gillen. I love him. To be honest, in the whole show, to season 1 to season 3, episode 6, there are only two actors that I didn’t like: the actress from Shae, and the actor from Mountain 2.0

  134. Utiz4321
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:33 pm | Permalink

    The theon scenes have to be there since they decided to show his story. They are important to the development of his character. I am glad hbo and the show runners where brave enough to include them, learning about what happens to theon off screen is all well and good for books because we can get into theon’s head and feel the effect of his experience. In the show the only way to do this is to show it and show him breaking. It is disturbing but this world is disturbing as as often ours is glossing over it in either case lessens us and the people who suffer this way.

  135. Mark
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:34 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger:
    Tip of the hat to Michael McElhatton as well.He is Roose Bolton.Whenever he comes on screen I can’t take my eyes off him.Even with NCW around.

    You know, I wasn’t crazy about him last season, but I’m starting to lean this way too. I don’t think he’ll have an opportunity to shine until at least season 4, probably more in seasons 5 and 6, but watching him interact with characters more intimately, I’m really starting to see it and like it.

  136. Brendan
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:36 pm | Permalink

    The climb felt a little bit like a cheap Hollywood movie with Jon saving Ygritte at the last second and then the holding hands to go see the view together. I would have liked to see them exhausted at the top, give each other a ‘hell yeah’ we made it and holy shit that was tough look and then pan out to an overhead shot showing the wall and south of the wall…maybe even show Queenscrown in the distance. A lot of pieces moving into place. The biggest scenes so far imo have been Jaime losing his sword hand, Dany acquiring the Unsullied, mutiny at Craster’s, the Hound’s trial and The Climb. There has been a lot of build up so far with big payoff to come in ep. 7-10.

  137. Mark
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:37 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger:
    Tip of the hat to Michael McElhatton as well.He is Roose Bolton.Whenever he comes on screen I can’t take my eyes off him.Even with NCW around.

    The only objection I can make is that his voice is naturally kind of loud, I keep wanting him to speak in whispers, but he’s even starting to do that better. He does keep his tone pretty round and soft, even if his actual voice is a bit deep and harsh, so it’s starting to work, and the soft voice thing was always going to be difficult anyway. Once “the turn” happens, I’m starting to feel pretty optimsitic about how the character and performance will be handled.

  138. Greg
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:37 pm | Permalink

    The Good
    -TYWIN/OLENNA SHOWDOWN. I love the QoT so so so much. She was already amazing in the book, but I think I like the show version even more, mostly thanks to this scene. Her comment about Jaime and Cersei made me want to flip a table with joy and shout “BUUUURN!!!” Also, Tywin is a homophobe. Why is this not surprising.
    -The climb! What an exciting sequence of scenes with such a great, uplifting ending. And I’m really starting to hate Orell, which is good, I guess!
    -Jaime/Brienne/Bolton scene. I’m glad the show is slowly revealing Roose to be the madman he really is. And is it bad that I kinda wanted to crack up at Jaime’s attempt to cut his dinner… yeah, probably.
    -The Bran stuff was pretty good. I especially liked Bran’s attempts to stop Meera and Osha’s bickering.
    -Tyrion telling Sansa about their engagement. Just as awkward and uncomfortable as it needs to be. Ugh, I am DREADING their wedding (hey, that rhymed!)
    -IWAN GODDAMN RHEON. Oh my god, he is killing it. Who knew that lovable old Simon from Misfits was such a psycho? And I love all the little hints to who he really is (the bit with the horn was a nice touch.)

    The Not-As Good
    -OK, Ros’s death pissed me off. Like a lot. You’re finally giving this character, a character who had before been little more than a convenient tool for exposition and tits, some depth and real personality, only to kill her off in the most savage way possible? Why, to make Joffrey even more evil? We know Joffrey is a sadistic little shit! You don’t need to kill of an innocent woman for no other reason than to further this fact! Her death is a prime example of wasted potential. She was finally developing into a three-dimensional character, and her death is a huge mistake on D&D’s part. They need to work on strengthening their female characters who aren’t straight-up badasses like Arya or Dany or Brienne.
    -Littlefinger the Bond Villain is also annoying, but Winter already explained that.

    Overall, a good episode with some HUGE flaws. Hopefully next week will be better Bring on the bear pit!

  139. Jared
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

    Good Lord did Nina Gold hit a homerun in casting Iwan Rheon. Ramsay and his crazy eyes nearly stole the episode. Not sure how much longer they can drag out the reveal, but once the Bastard of Bolton gets free reign in the coming seasons, it’s going to be a sight to behold.

    Olenna and Tywin’s conversation was obviously a highlight. The Queen of Thorns set her words to cut like a thousand fine razors, but in the end Tywin came out victorious – at least for the moment.

    The conversation between Cersei and Tyrion was another great moment. It’s always interesting to see the two of them finding common ground, even if it’s only temporary. Interesting that they seem to have overtly settled on Joffrey being the one who gave the order to have Tyrion killed, much as they switched things up to make him the one to order the death of Robert’s bastards. It’s consistent with the more sympathetic Cersei we’ve seen on the show so far.

    The visual of Jon and Ygritte climbing the Wall was stunning. Kudos to the visual effects team, the stunts team, and everyone who made it look as good as it did. That fade-out of the two of them embracing and looking out over the great expanse of the North was one of the best visuals the show has given us so far.

    Honestly, the most intriguing thing about this episode to me is Melisandre telling Arya “we’ll meet again”. If this Benioff and Weiss dropping a hint about the series based on knowledge they’ve garnered from Martin? Or just one of those ominous proclamations that is meant to sound ominous in the moment and may or may not ever pay off?

  140. loco73
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

    Another good episode is in the books and sadly another curtain call will follow. When I started watching this show I had not yet read the books. So when Ros was introduced I thought her part of the books. After I read the books and realized that she had been invented just for the show contrary to taking a dislike to her I saw her position and reason for being on the show even more clearly.

    In both the novels and the show we never really get to see the perspective of the little folk, Ros provided that perspective albeit the fact that she wasn’t necessarily a “regular ” person.

    Esme Bianco is both talented and beautiful and she did right by all of us even those who insulted and even hated her. I have seen other websites where the comments were really just insults and petty brain farts masquerading as “insightful ” criticism. As much as I enjoy coming to this place and seeing the many bright, funny and creative comments, I must say that sadly some of those idiotic comments have found their way on here also.

    While people can have disagreements and express their dislike or objection to a character or any portion of the show, I feel that sometimes, actually many times the comments regarding Ros and by extension Esme Bianco went beyond their intended purpose and had really nasty undertones and streaks of personal attacks and derision. I found her death scene quite disturbing and I wish that her character had hung around for a longer period. But it is as it shall.

    Esme Bianco has been nothing but graceful and has tried to do her utmost towards the show and the fans. I think that we owe her respect and courtesy even if some did not like her character or felt that her screen presence came at the expense of other characters. Anything else is an insult to the show, the people who work hard day-in-day out so that we can enjoy these fantastic weekly treats. Ultimately it is an insult to the rest of us fans who have loved the novels and the show for all these years.

    If anyone involved with the show ever reads these comments I would like to apologize to ms. Bianco and the rest of the cast and crew if any of our comments have proven to be insulting or off putting.

    I want to thank Esme Bianco personally for her work on the show and wish her nothing but the best in the future. RIP Ros…

  141. JonSnow
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:40 pm | Permalink

    Sedeys:

    But let’s be honest here; the character sucked. Her scenes sucked.

    Speak for yourself. Your opinions are not facts: I can mention at least one other role that ‘sucked’ more, and had worse scenes, IMO (but I don’t want to offend any actors in public, so I won’t mention their names).

    Esme did a very good job with what she was given, and she was well cast in a relatively small role. I agree that more time could’ve been spent on the main characters, but Ros is far from the only minor/supporting character that’s been given screen time.

    It could be argued that the list of characters should or could have been decreased substantially (with more emphasis and focus on 6-7 main characters), but then we would have endless complaints like “why is [insert favourite character here] not in this show!”. It’s a no-win situation.

  142. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:40 pm | Permalink

    Mark,

    Yes agreed. The whisper is cool in the books, but the audience needs to hear him speak. He’s calm, cold and creepy though. If only the leech bath would happen.

  143. Mark
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger:
    Tip of the hat to Michael McElhatton as well.He is Roose Bolton.Whenever he comes on screen I can’t take my eyes off him.Even with NCW around.

    And just one more thought on this subject, part of the reason I think it’s starting to work so well, and it would be interesting to see how non-book readers feel about this, is the juxtaposition with he and Ramsay. You can totally see them being quietly cunning and ruthless father and deranged bastard son even though they haven’t interacted yet.

  144. Mark
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:42 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger:
    Mark,

    Yes agreed.The whisper is cool in the books, but the audience needs to hear him speak.He’s calm, cold and creepy though.If only the leech bath would happen.

    Yeah totally, I hope that stays, I have a feeling it might, it’d be a really nice creepy leadup to the RW.

  145. JonSnow
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:43 pm | Permalink

    Loco73:

    … actually many times the comments regarding Ros and by extension Esme Bianco went beyond their intended purpose and had really nasty undertones and streaks of personal attacks and derision.

    Exactly, that’s my impression as well. Sometimes I wonder if certain people realize that these actors are real people with feelings? I mean, criticizing someone or something (in a polite or constructive manner) is one thing, but there’s no reason to get personal or nasty about it.

  146. Hawk
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:43 pm | Permalink

    Dareon has green eyes…Arya kills him in ADWD…

    curious to know what color eyes the Moneychanger and Kevan Lannister possess…brown and blue, perhaps…

  147. redqueen
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:44 pm | Permalink

    Love that they are making Little Finger into what he obviously is. Insinuated in the books but in your face on screen. The letter to Katelyn to begin with from her sister was all set up by LF (as well as the death of her husband) and more to come.
    Melisandra and the Brotherhood is bringing another aspect of fire into play and probably the controlling aspect of Fire. Easy to think it’s Dany and her dragons but I don’t think so, or the aspects of fire will all join together.
    Starks are becoming less and less likable. Not sure anyone will cry for Rob.

  148. elvin
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:44 pm | Permalink

    Definitely think the Mel/Arya scene was a future book spoiler.

    I think Ramsay also gave a “A Dream of Spring” spoiler: “If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention”

  149. JamesL
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    Why hasn’t the Hound taken Arya yet? I have a feeling the BWB will take her to the RW and the Hound will kidnap her there and then they will extend their story arc together throughout S4.
    Another flaw of this episode was that it was another episode without Dany who is the shows biggest draw. 2 episodes without the mother of dragons is 1 too many.

  150. Matt
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    I just want to point out (because no one has mentioned it) that Joff shot Ros in the vadge. What a sick fucker.

    LOVED this episode though! It wasn’t as good as the last 2 episodes, but the quality is just so good. I’d probably rate this episode #3 best of the season so far, and I agree it was a total “set up” episode for the rest of the season.

    Tyrion’s line “Jamie or not.. I’m truly fucked” made me spill my tea all over myself. Completely out of the blue and entirely hilarious!

  151. Hughfire
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:47 pm | Permalink

    On Ros’ death – I think it was fairly well timed. Especially for non-readers – she was a relatively mid level character who was just starting to make it and was killed at a point that gets the audience ready to lose major characters. Very similar to how Jory etc. got the audience thinking oh wow – they’ve killed off someone rather important – never guessing the major killing that is about to come. I think Ros (even though I actually liked her) was killed at the right time as an overture to the Red Wedding.

  152. Scotty
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:48 pm | Permalink

    The Pain Yak,

    I was just never really a Ros hater.

  153. Brendan
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:48 pm | Permalink

    Cannot wait for the Bear and the Maiden Fair, Sandor and Arya’s meeting, Sam ‘the Slayer’..3.07 should bring some action back.

  154. Ours is the Fury
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:48 pm | Permalink

    The discussion on Sophie’s weight is completely inappropriate. Cut it out NOW.

  155. Scotty
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:49 pm | Permalink

    The Pain Yak,

    I was just never really a Ros hater so to see her go out like THAT. wow. That second to last scene, Little Finger’s speech was pretty cinematically great though. Felt trailerish in a great way. Cloud Atlas ending-ish if anyone catches my feeling.

  156. Bran The Builder
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    By future books, do you mean the published books or TWOW and/or ADOS??

  157. JoffreyTrueKing
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:52 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    You can cleary see him kidnapping her in Episode 7 preview.

  158. LordDavos12
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

    Eeek…I was modded…

    S..sorry WiC/OitF :(

  159. The Pain Yak
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:54 pm | Permalink

    I find it far more disconcerting how dull-witted they seem to be making her. She trusts Shae without fear, she trusts the Tyrells without fear, and in this episode she asked Shae if she thought her family (the family that is in open rebellion against the Throne? That family, Sansa?) could come to the wedding.

    Give us a few signs that this girl is maturing into a political player in her own right, already. Right now she seems to have learned nothing.

  160. thupple
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:54 pm | Permalink

    The Ros scene was unspeakable. What a tragic waste of a human life. Seeing her brutally murdered and at the same time sexualized and gorgeous corpse is emotionally scarring to me. I weep for her.

     Littlefinger is vile in the book, and he is vile in the show. Show Littlefinger is not as subtle as Book Littlefinger, because a show cannot always afford to be subtle on major plot and character points if it is to have a prayer of not confusing the non book reading viewers. I myself did not realize how truly vile Littlefinger was on even my second read through. They’ve got ONE shot at it with most viewers. So Show Littlefinger easier to hate than Book  Littlefinger, yet is somehow less enjoyable to hate. I accept this.

    I was fascinated by the scene with Tyrion and Cersei, particularly the apparent reveal of Joff as the one who ordered Mandon Moore to kill Tyrion. Does that mean that is what is true in the book? Or is Cersei lying even in the show? Actually she never really says, does she? This will require hours of pondering with no clear conclusions for me, and I really appreciate all that juicy subtlety. There is lots of this kind of subtlety in the show, and I feel like they are hidden treats for detail oriented readers like me. Totally evens the necessary loss of subtleties elsewhere. 

    I could go on at length but am already in TLDR territory, so will simply say that I thought it was a fantastic episode.

  161. Matt
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:55 pm | Permalink

    Hawk,

    Uh Kevan Lannister gets offed by Varys… along with Pycelle

    MULTI-KILL!

  162. Alfonz Targaryan
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:56 pm | Permalink

    NewJeffCT, Think back to the three people Arya wants to kill. It eluded me, until my wife brought it up. Boom.

  163. LordDavos12
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

    Bing,

    Just leave it alone man

  164. JoffreyTrueKing
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:58 pm | Permalink

    The Pain Yak,

    If I recall correclty, is not until Alayne that she starts becoming more of a player and less of a piece. Remember in the books she dumbly trusted Dontos to no end, and we saw how that one played out.

  165. Jeffrey
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    I don’t get how people don’t like Theon’s torturing? GRRM’s characters are usually in the gray areas except for the few. Theon is one of them.

  166. Bing
    Posted May 5, 2013 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    LordDavos12,

    You agree with me, right man? Man-to-man I mean.

  167. Hawk
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:00 am | Permalink

    Matt,

    yes…only the very astute readers picked up on the clues that Arya was there too…

  168. LordDavos12
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:00 am | Permalink

    Jeffrey,

    Theon’s in a gray area; Ramsay is not :)

  169. Mark
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:01 am | Permalink

    Hawk:
    Mark,

    Point of note about Arya and Mel’s foreshadowing remark to her…Dareon has hazel (green) eyes…I suspect the three people made reference to have already been killed by Arya by the end of ADWD…

    Right, this much I figured. But the part about her and Mel meeting again is wide open. They change enough where that scene could happen pre-ADwD material, but that would mean sending one character or the other way off they’re book path. Seems more likely if it’s going to happen it’s going to be after Arya leaves Braavos and returns to Westeros. And it definitely begs the notion that Arya might kill Melisandre at some point.

  170. LordDavos12
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:01 am | Permalink

    Bing,

    No, and I’m done talking to you.

  171. Jeffrey
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:03 am | Permalink

    LordDavos12:
    Jeffrey,

    Theon’s in a gray area; Ramsay is not :)

    Of course and thats why Theon should be torture. Does anyone not think he deserves this? He sacked Winterfell, killed two innocent farm boys and Maester Luwin.

  172. Lavignac
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:03 am | Permalink

    Just to calm down a one detail of the Sansa-is-unbelievably-dim critics, she never mentioned her family attending a wedding in King’s Landing… She suggested them visiting her when she has settled in Highgarden, at a future date when the war might be expected to be over.

  173. LordDavos12
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:05 am | Permalink

    Jeffrey: Of course and thats why Theon should be torture.Does anyone not think he deserves this?He sacked Winterfell, killed two innocent farm boys and Maester Luwin.

    You’re right. Knowledge from future events somewhat blurs my opinion of him. I take it back.

  174. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:05 am | Permalink

    sedeyus:
    You know what I hate about Ros’ death? It was clearly a smack from D&D to Ros haters. Sorta of, “There, are you happy now? She died in a brutal way. What’s wrong with you people?!” But let’s be honest here; the character sucked. Her scenes sucked. She should have never been written into the show. Her original purpose was sexposition, then her scenes became all about D&D’s egos and the fact they were pissed no one liked their one original character. Let’s all move on.

    Gotta love when people who obviously haven’t moved on say “Let’s all move on.”

    I’ll be honest: Ros never bothered me. Not in the least. But I’m glad she’s gone, she’d fulfilled her purpose, and not just in (s)exposition.

    I agree with Winter’s assessment, this episode was a bit of a step down, but perhaps a necessary one. I like the juxtaposition at the end, not just the obvious one of the wall climb after Littlefinger’s “climb” speech, but also seeing the kingdoms below the wall laid out below them just after Littlefinger and Varys’ discussion about “the realm”. Good stuff.

    And I’m intrigued by the Mel/Gendry story change too, and thought the talk between she and Thoros was great. Only thing I didn’t like about it was the sort of betrayal aspect of it. Is Gendry actually going to want to go back to the Brotherhood after that?

  175. Aloysha
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:05 am | Permalink

    I introduced Game of Thrones to my father and i’m very glad i did it, now he can enjoy the awesomeness of this monumental series too!….but only the tv series cuz he is too lazy to read the books ¬¬

    btw i loved the death of Ros, i was tired of her getting too much time on screen XD this is getting very exciting!!

  176. The Pain Yak
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:06 am | Permalink

    JoffreyTrueKing:
    The Pain Yak,

    If I recall correclty, is not until Alayne that she starts becoming more of a player and less of a piece. Remember in the books she dumbly trusted Dontos to no end, and we saw how that one played out.

    Yeah, but I like Sansa’s cynicism as a gradual process. Sansa in Book 2 and 3 is naive, true, but not quite so naive as Sansa in Book 1. She has learned some things, even if she’s still just an amateur.

    The Sansa they showed this episode showed a failure to grasp reality every bit as severe as she showed in the beginning of the series.

  177. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:08 am | Permalink

    JamesL:
    Why hasn’t the Hound taken Arya yet?I have a feeling the BWB will take her to the RW and the Hound will kidnap her there and then they will extend their story arc together throughout S4.
    Another flaw of this episode was that it was another episode without Dany who is the shows biggest draw. 2 episodes without the mother of dragons is 1 too many.

    2 episodes? She was in the last one, if only briefly.

    I’m fine with them leaving her out, indicates that they’re actually traveling somewhere, assuming they’ll be outside Yunkai next episode.

  178. Spryte
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:10 am | Permalink

    The Pain Yak,

    But she’s still a young girl full of daydreams, grasping for every chance of hope and survival. Can you remember how stupid you were at that age?

    And Westeros is so much more difficult than high school.

  179. Richard
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:11 am | Permalink

    (non-book reader) Really love this Thoros of Myr character, a kind of accidental cleric…. and I’m assuming that Melisandre saw The Many Faced God within Arya’s eyes, which made me hope that Jaqen H’ghar comes back at some point to help Arya lay the beatdown on some of these people. I really, really hate Littlefinger this season, he’s becoming quite the evil bastard, even making Varys backpedal and get flustered when he and Ros were found out along with Sansa’s plans. Speaking of Ros, geez I never wanted to see her go like that, which made me hate Joffrey even more, didn’t think that was possible. He’s completely irreparable and I admit I’ll have a hard time watching the series if he survives the season. F*ck him.

  180. phillipr
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:14 am | Permalink

    I think melisindre was referring to arya becoming a faceless woman. The eye colors could be her changing faces, or the color of the eyes of the people she kills in her chosen profession, or maybe the eye colors of the people on her list in order.

  181. LordDavos12
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:15 am | Permalink

    Richard,

    Welcome, Richard! You’re braving some dangerous waters as a non-reader coming in here…I agree with you on Thoros; I’m much more interested in his on screen persona than i was while reading.

  182. The DarkStar
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:15 am | Permalink

    Hawk: Mark,

    Point of note about Arya and Mel’s foreshadowing remark to her…Dareon has hazel (green) eyes…I suspect the three people made reference to have already been killed by Arya by the end of ADWD…

    I’m pretty confident that it is not referring to any of that.
    Referring to characters we haven’t met, in plot lines that aren’t necessary, doesn’t make much sense.

    Arya will kill
    The Hound
    Cercie
    Ilyn Payne.

    If I were givin the keys to make a show based off the books, I’d make sure that Arya’s prayer would happen, or I wouldn’t even put it in.
    And If Mel references that she has hatred and will kill three people, and Arya says three peoples names that she wants to kill twice in the same episode It’s gonna be them.
    Otherwise thats just bad TV.
    We all want to see Arya Kill those people, not leave one to die on the side of a road, and fuck around for two books.

  183. Jambo
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:15 am | Permalink

    Overall maybe not as strong as the last couple episodes, but not bad by any means. Still had a lot of great scenes.

    I especially liked Mel’s interaction with the BwB, and getting that backstory for Thoros. I wonder if that was based on future book info they got from George, or just made up. I think this storyline with Gendry is gonna play out great - he’s brought back to Dragonstone, bled for the leaches, or forced to sleep with Mel (as it looked from one preview shot), maybe in ep 8? We get word of Balon dying (or maybe a shadow baby?!), then RW in 9, and Joff for next season I guess. Or maybe Davos will sneak Gendry out and back to the BwB before she can use it for Joff too, and that’s why he lives for longer?

    Anyways, really looking forward to how that all plays out.

  184. Matt
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:15 am | Permalink

    Richard,

    Joff is signed on for another 4 seasons so you better prepare yourself!

  185. Meg
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:15 am | Permalink

    wow, did anyone else think this was a terrible episode?!

  186. Monica
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:16 am | Permalink

    I liked Ros. High price to pay for talking to Varys.

    In ASoIaF, Littlefinger is like Iago, we don’t know what his game is, but we see his work – all the dead people on the bed at the end of Othello! With D & D, we know LF’s game, but not the plan! Glad that Theon’s transformation into Reek is explained. Roose’s bastard is perfect. A chip off the old block…

    Love how the characters are like chess pieces, but well-developed. D & D know how the game is played!

  187. Mark
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:17 am | Permalink

    Hawk:
    Dareon has green eyes…Arya kills him in ADWD…

    curious to know what color eyes the Moneychanger and Kevan Lannister possess…brown and blue, perhaps…

    In the books all the Lannisters except Tyrion have green eyes I believe. My first thought was Dareon, the moneylender, and then the scene at the Crossroads Inn when the Hound gets wounded, but the Tickler’s already dead and Polliver hasn’t yet made an appearance. It’d be a real shame if this scene (presumably would happen in Season 4) is cut entirely though. Some idle speculation, we don’t really have any role for the Mountain during the RW….

    In the books he’s “pursuing” Roose Bolton and takes him “by surprise” as he’s crossing the Ruby Ford. It turns out this is just another Duskendale-like ploy to dispose of Stark loyalists and spare Bolton’s supporters from the massacre prior to the RW though. The only men left to cross when the Mountain arrives are a rear guard of Manderly Knights and some of the mountain clans, who get slaughtered (and some get taken prisoner, such as Wylis Manderly). He then leaves some Ryswell, Cerwyn, Hornwood, and Barrowtown men behind to guard the Ford on the far side, supposedly so Gregor cannot cross, but really to spare them from attending the RW and either being among the slain or implicated.

    Obviously, this is all way beyond the scope of the show, so I wonder if the Mountain shows up outside the RW and has a confrontation with this brother somehow. It could be a way to get Arya to add another name to her list, maybe someone she could later encounter at the Crossroads Inn….

  188. Varamyr Fourskins
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:19 am | Permalink

    I think the show is doing a really good job of showing how all the Stark kids get corrupted. Most book-readers don’t see it when they’re reading, because they want to sympathize with the them and see them as victims. It’s the “In Cold Blood” theory. If you follow a criminal’s childhood, and come to understand the reasons for why they are the way they are, you tend to excuse them for their actions — as opposed to coming across a 30 year old killer, with no backstory or reference point to explain why they behave that way.

    For example, a lot of book-readers don’t understand that Littlefinger is a very bad dude. He comes off as much more sly and ambiguous in the books, but his nefarious ways relate directly to the corruption of Sansa. I mean, there are people over on the Westeros boards who see absolutely no problem at all with Sansa becoming his protege. “It’s just LF. What’s the big deal?” Uh… he’s a greedy, narcissistic, amoral, power-hungry pimp who sells his used up and/or unmanageable whores/sex slaves to sadists/psychopaths. Nope, nothing wrong with Sansa getting close to a guy like that.

    And, to an even greater degree, people miss the signs with the Reed siblings. Those two are in to some pretty creepy shit — witchcraft type stuff, which seems harmless when you see it through a child’s eyes, but comes off as much more sinister when you take a step back and look at it objectively. Warging especially. A warg is essentially a bodysnatcher, and that will seem pretty dark when Bran does it to Hodor… mark my words.

    Same goes for Stannis & Melisandre. There are people who actually agree with Thoros in that the Lord of Light is the “one true god”, because he can make zombies… even though zombies are completely unnatural and go against nature. Probably not a “god” you want to mess with. Never mind all the business with burning people to death.

    And Arya, for that matter. People are willing to excuse her becoming a faceless assassin because they think she had it rough as a kid. Nope. A faceless assassin is a faceless assassin. And the show is doing a good job of getting that across.

    Anyway, that’s what I got out of the episode… Oh, and Jaime’s ham (read: Azor Ahai — salt prophecy… last episode was the smoke, in the hot tub… Jaime is now reborn. The transformation will be complete once “the Red Star Bleeds” — i.e. Oberyn Martell is killed, and Tyrion is condemned to death).

  189. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:20 am | Permalink

    On rewatch I listened to how Thoros pronounces R’hllor. Sounds like “roll are”. In my mind it was “rah hole er”. Glad for the clarification.

  190. Hawk
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:22 am | Permalink

    The DarkStar,

    Arya doesn’t fuck around for two books…she’s in training…and I, for one, do not want to see her kill the Hound…

  191. Mark
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:23 am | Permalink

    The DarkStar: I’m pretty confident that it is not referring to any of that.
    Referring to characters we haven’t met, in plot lines that aren’t necessary, doesn’t make much sense.

    Arya will kill
    The Hound
    Cercie
    Ilyn Payne.

    If I were givin the keys to make a show based off the books, I’d make sure that Arya’s prayer would happen, or I wouldn’t even put it in.
    And If Mel references that she has hatred and will kill three people, and Arya says three peoples names that she wants to kill twice in the same episode It’s gonna be them.
    Otherwise thats just bad TV.
    We all want to see Arya Kill those people, not leave one to die on the side of a road, and fuck around for two books.

    Dareon is pretty necessary, and perhaps not strictly, but so is the moneylender. Note that Dareon was also mentioned at the beginning of this episode (by Sam). The moneylender plot can be changed, but Arya’s still going to need a first mark as an assassin, it’s just the details that can be played with.

    I really, really hope she doesn’t kill the Hound in season 4. That would be a MONSTER book spoiler, considering most avid book readers are pretty convinced the Hound is still hanging around on the Quiet Isle.

  192. Jaqen is Q
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:23 am | Permalink

    This episode was rather shorter than normal, I think.

  193. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:24 am | Permalink

    Varamyr Fourskins,

    If the weirwood paste Bran eats in ADWD is actually made of Jojen
    Shudder

  194. K
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:25 am | Permalink

    “If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention!” If that’s not the line that best sums up ASoIaF I don’t know what is! It almost felt like that line was directed at all of us – from GRRM himself – brilliant!

  195. Hawk
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:26 am | Permalink

    Mark,

    the specific color of Kevan Lannister’s eyes are never mentioned in the books, from what I have been able to uncover…and you should really use spoiler tags…

  196. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:28 am | Permalink

    So much great stuff in this. And for a lot of it, it seemed like it was going to be one of those “take a breath” episodes after a pair of real barn-burners.

    But it did that and more. And there were so many great quiet conversations – Sam and Gilly, another typically awesome Varys/Littlefinger showdown, the ridiculous Tywin/Olenna scene (love her baiting him with talk of squires getting busy with each other…hilarious).

    Haven’t read the other comments yet so I’ll just say I’m sad to see Esme Bianco go, who did a lot with a difficult role of someone who wasn’t a character in the books and one that frequently caught a lot of flak from fans. I thought she did a great job as Ros, and so to see her go – in a particularly hurtful, awful manner – with Joffrey not even getting one word in this episode, just a shot of him with a satisfied look on his face – was really rough. Looking forward to the curtain call.

    Great scene from Beric/Melisandre/Thoros — and seeing as how Melisandre left Stannis in what, episode 3 of this season, 3 episodes to get to the Riverlands seems about right, better than Littlefinger’s jet packs. And the use of Gendry to take over the Edric Storm plot works just fine – he’s a more compelling character than an unseen cipher, and Gendry does almost nothing in the following books anyway.

    Was nice to see the growing bond between Jon and Ygritte as it really did a nice job in deepening Jon Snow’s character. And we got to finally see some of Tormund Giantsbane’s humorous side, so well done in getting that aspect of the character into the mix.

    “Brown eyes. Blue eyes. Green eyes. Eyes you will shut forever.” Which of course should have been followed by, “I have seen these things because we were renewed for Season 4.”

    Lots of fabulous one-liners, too, including a few of my favorites from this year:

    “The Lysa Arryn of chairs.” Nearly fell out on that one.

    “Face. Tits. Balls. I hit him right where I wanted to.” (Sadly, that turns out to be just exactly what Ros gets.)

    “You starin’ at me ass, Jon Snow?”

  197. Ser Osis of Liver
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:28 am | Permalink

    The DarkStar: I’m pretty confident that it is not referring to any of that.
    Referring to characters we haven’t met, in plot lines that aren’t necessary, doesn’t make much sense.
    Arya will kill
    The Hound
    Cercie
    Ilyn Payne.
    -snip-
    We all want to see Arya Kill those people, not leave one to die on the side of a road, and fuck around for two books.

    Potentially very big spoilers behind the bars if you aren’t a reader.
    Except that Sandor Clegane most likely isn’t dead. Re-read the Quiet Isle chapter in AFFC very carefully and ponder the tall, silent grave digger with a limp, who bends down to scritch Dog, and the very precise words the Elder Brother says to Brienne. We have not seen the last of Sandor. Whether Arya eventually kills him all-dead we can only speculate, but most believe he’s just been temporarily moved off the board and will play a significant role in TWoW/ADoS.

  198. Mark
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:29 am | Permalink

    Hawk:
    Mark,

    the specific color of Kevan Lannister’s eyes are never mentioned in the books, from what I have been able to uncover…and you should really use spoiler tags…

    Crap, my bad I thought I did (I have been in my other comments).

  199. Jen
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:29 am | Permalink

    Really? I can’t even with the “Theon deserves torture” sentiment. No, just no.

    Also, can you guys imagine how awesome it’s going to be when Roose and Ramsay act together in the same scenes in future seasons? I think it will be FAN-FUCKING-TASTIC. They are both so good!

  200. Kualan
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:30 am | Permalink

    Okay, correct me if I misheard guys, but when Loras was describing his “dream bride’s” dress, did he use the term “French sleeves” ?!?!?!?

  201. Ceilidh Chaos
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:30 am | Permalink

    Isabelle,

    it means they cut Edric Storm

  202. Mark
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:31 am | Permalink

    Hawk:
    Mark,

    the specific color of Kevan Lannister’s eyes are never mentioned in the books, from what I have been able to uncover…and you should really use spoiler tags…

    Wait, why does that comment need spoiler tags? Nothing goes beyond the scope of ASoS….am I misunderstanding the rules? I thought spoilers through ASoS were allowed in these comments….

  203. LordDavos12
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:33 am | Permalink

    Ser Osis of Liver,

    This 100%

  204. Hawk
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:34 am | Permalink

    Varamyr Fourskins,

    You forgot to mention Dany, the biggest hero that is really a villain in the entire story…

  205. Ceilidh Chaos
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    Terri Agy,

    Boggles my mind that anyone could call LF not cruel, especially when he manipulated Lissa Arryn into murdering Jon Arryn, blaming the Lannisters and starting a war. Or how about later pushing Lissa out of the moon door. Bigtime evil guy. And those are the only things we know about because we witness them, what about the evil we don’t know about?

  206. iam76
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    episode was great.

    People should enjoy it more.

    and yes i read the books… go watch defiance or da vinci’s demons and come back to this show… GOT is quality.

  207. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    Steven Swanson,

    I didn’t mean 2 episodes in a row. Dany was also not in episode 2.

  208. jay
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:39 am | Permalink

    Sid not like this episode. The climb is happening too early, but I get it that they have contract the story based on limited airtime.
    The writers are generally good, but I question the reasoning behind ignoring simple facts, such as loras having two brothers, and a father for that matter.
    But seriously, how hard is it to write Cedric storm into this series? He has two lines in the books, I’m sure it wouldn’t cost much to include him. Now, they’re messing up gendry, arya, and bwb storylines. I like thoros’ monologue and the arya foreshadowing but it wasn’t worth the changes.
    Ramsay scenes are well done IMO. Torture porn seems to be the sex of season three.
    Ros’ death was not good as I see her as necessary at this point, like her or not. Also, do we really this to show Hoff as a sicko?
    Littlefinger and Varys are great tho. Love the chaos premonitions.
    But all in all this show was disorganised and boring. Yawn.

  209. Ashara D
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:42 am | Permalink

    Long time lurker, first time poster. LOVED all the hints for the book future in this ep! Seemed to confirm some theories… More to debate while we wait for WoW.

    Love the tv changes for the most part. Was skeptical during S1, but patience has paid off and I trust that D & D will tell a good story with just enough new stuff to keep me on my toes. They seem to be doing a good job of walking the line between readers and newbies. It definitely keeps things fresh for me as a multi-time book reader. Needed a good WTF moment for this set-up episode, and Ros’s fate was it. Good job, Esme!

    About the criticisms of the final scene with Ygritte and Jon: I loved that it was a bit of an homage to classic love stories like Gone with the Wind. It is very much a death of innocence moment in the series as we start the downhill slide to the upcoming events. Two innocent lovers, standing between two worlds with young love in their hearts…sigh.

    BCog: you da man for keeping the two canons flowing along–so many details!

  210. Ponzo
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:42 am | Permalink

    There is a reason they cut Edric from the show, they wanted Mel to see what resurrecting can do, but she needed a reason to go to the Brotherhood. So when Jon dies in the last book, people wont be that surprised if she brings him back

  211. Lisa
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:44 am | Permalink

    I’m really enjoying this adaptation. I didn’t think I would like the changes they were making, but they all work so well. So much foreshadowing in Melisandre and Arya’s scene. Starting to get more into the religions of the world and also setting up for Arya to join the Faceless Men. It seems there was also a nice little set-up to introduce Alys Karstark in future seasons. I’m glad they didn’t bring in a new character for the part of Edric Storm, but I’m wary about how they will continue to use Gendry. Will he just disappear off to Lys as Edric did?

    I loved Beric’s line – “There is no other side.” Also, no Edric Dayne. :(

    Littlefinger is almost exactly as he is in the books. He’s sadistic while ‘keeping his hands clean’. That’s one of his lessons to “Alayne Stone”. In the books, evidence of his ‘clean’ sadistic nature is shown through Jeyne Poole, not to mention him being the one to escalate the war, encouraging Joffrey to kill Ned, killing his wife, and all of the things he does to Sansa. Attentive book readers know he’s an evil man who enjoys the chaos he creates. I’m very surprised how many reviewers are under the impression that Littlefinger has undergone some dramatic change due to adaptation.

    I still really love all of the Bran scenes. The conversation between Meera and Osha about different ways to skin a rabbit was just superb. I am concerned that they aren’t amping up the sympathy for Robb and Catelyn. And oh boy, The Boy aka Ramsay. I don’t know if I can stomach seeing more of his torture. Wondering if there will be a castration scene…

    Finally, I have to say, an episode without Emilia Clarke is always a good episode.

  212. Arthur
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:47 am | Permalink

    Kualan,

    Lol wow I heard that too and you’re right… If he did use the term “French Sleeves” that’s a huge error… Wrong world…

  213. Kualan
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:47 am | Permalink

    Arthur:
    Kualan,

    Lol wow I heard that too and you’re right… “If he did use the term “French Sleeves” that’s a huge error…

    Oh, just realised Loras said “fringed” sleeves rather than “French” sleeves. Thank goodness.

  214. Arthur
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:49 am | Permalink

    Kualan,

    Lol thank the Seven!!!

  215. AlleraSarella
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:52 am | Permalink

    I and my entire family have permanently checked out. Not watching anymore. I’m done, the rabbit scene did it. Before I could believe that the dead animals were fiberglass or digital, now I know that they killed those rabbits the morning of for that moronic scene between Meera and Osha. Now all I see are actors. All I think of now is the animal cruelty poster child for HBO that was Luck, except for the fact I think GoT gets away with it because they are filming in Ireland and Croatia where laws regarding animal cruelty are less stringent. I feel like now I wonder did they really dismember horses for the Fist of the First Men scene? I rather hope the show goes the way of Luck…All I can think is if they had just put some effort into rewriting the episode, those rabbits never would have died, at least they wouldn’t have died for a show I once had a profound respect for. To watch and KNOW that what was once a living, breathing animal is being skinned removes you from the fantasy and destroys the ability of the show to take you into the story. Now everyone is just an actor. They permanently jumped the proverbial shark and I sincerely hope that every single animal rights group I can think of lands on this, because they effectively eliminated Luck and hopefully now GoT will suffer the same fate. Funny thing, Peter Dinklage supports Farm Santuary which takes abused and neglected rabbits that were going to be used for meat. Oh the irony.

  216. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:53 am | Permalink

    Loki,

    I really hope you’re not trolling as usual. I can’t pick a best episode (which I think is a good thing) because so many do so much well.

  217. Arthur
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:54 am | Permalink

    Lisa,

    Love the Bran scenes also… Wonder if D&D are ever going to show the TV viewer Bran’s interest in Meera. Or will they just be left out all together. And I guess at this point we will not see the Reeds “Oath”. I know many of you don’t care for it but when I read the books it was a very powerful experience for me.

  218. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:54 am | Permalink

    JonSnow:
    I really liked Ros and Esme Bianco, and I think it’s a pity that she’s been subject to so much fan hate (the negative side of fandom has really shown its ugly head when it comes to Ros).

    Agreed. We get the obnoxious, unending hatred of this character as if she came over and pissed in your breakfast cereal. Then, when she’s finally killed, a mass of fans rise up to say that it was obviously done because the producers wanted to “stick it” to the Ros haters.

    Please. Get over yourselves. It’s enough already.

  219. Isabelle
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:54 am | Permalink

    Ceilidh Chaos,

    Well yes, but did they have to make Beric do something so out-of-character in return? That’s what confused me.

    I agree with your assessment of Littlefinger, though–he’s easily one of the cruelest characters in Westeros because as someone else pointed out, people are chess pieces to him, to be moved around and then discarded if and when it benefits him, and he has the ability to hurt a terribly large number of them. What he put Jeyne Poole through in the books was just ghastly.

  220. Charles2
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:54 am | Permalink

    I want Joffrey to die in the worst and most painful way. That crap is evil. That was the most disturbing thing I’ve seen on the show by far. At least to me anyway.

  221. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:55 am | Permalink

    Arthur,

    I believe he said FRINGED. :]

  222. Winter Is Coming
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:55 am | Permalink

    I may be looking at Littlefinger through rose-colored glasses, since I find his character so fascinating in the book. It’s true he did a lot of bad things in the book as well. It just feels like in the show he really enjoys doing evil things, whereas in the book it’s all just a means to an end. The end being his ass on the Iron Throne. At least that part of his character the show did get right.

  223. Turncloak
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:57 am | Permalink

    Didn’t like this episode as much. Felt disjointed to me. The highlight was the Littlefinger speech Ofcourse

  224. Lisa
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:57 am | Permalink

    Arthur,

    Me too! I love the Reed oath in the books. I also love the storytelling that goes on between the Reeds and Bran. I keep wondering if they will include the Knight of the Laughing Tree Story, though it’s probably too soon to introduce something that so completely points to Jon’s real parentage. Glad I’m not the only one who so enjoys Bran and co.!

  225. Ser Bug
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:58 am | Permalink

    One interesting thing that happened for me during tonight’s episode involved Sam. In the books, I kinda disliked him during ASOS during his constant whining during his march (it just got so tiresome). Now I kinda dislike him in the show for not grieving for Jeor Mormont. It’s not a drastic change to the overall story and I acknowledge it’s a nitpick, but it felt weird seeing him smile so much (and it wasn’t a comforting smile, it was like a full on “hey I’m happy,fat pink mast time!” type of smile).

  226. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:58 am | Permalink

    AlleraSarella:
    I and my entire family have permanently checked out.Not watching anymore.I’m done, the rabbit scene did it.Before I could believe that the dead animals were fiberglass or digital, now I know that they killed those rabbits the morning of for that moronic scene between Meera and Osha.Now all I see are actors.All I think of now is the animal cruelty poster child for HBO that was Luck, except for the fact I think GoT gets away with it because they are filming in Ireland and Croatia where laws regarding animal cruelty are less stringent.I feel like now I wonder did they really dismember horses for the Fist of the First Men scene?I rather hope the show goes the way of Luck…All I can think is if they had just put some effort into rewriting the episode, those rabbits never would have died, at least they wouldn’t have died for a show I once had a profound respect for.To watch and KNOW that what was once a living, breathing animal is being skinned removes you from the fantasy and destroys the ability of the show to take you into the story.Now everyone is just an actor.They permanently jumped the proverbial shark and I sincerely hope that every single animal rights group I can think of lands on this, because they effectively eliminated Luck and hopefully now GoT will suffer the same fate.Funny thing, Peter Dinklage supports Farm Santuary which takes abused and neglected rabbits that were going to be used for meat.Oh the irony.

    You’re kidding, right? You don’t think it’s possible to do that with prosthetics? You realize you’re riding on nothing but your own suppositions?

  227. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:58 am | Permalink

    Greatjon of Slumber,

    Agreed. Her character was a great device in the show in S2 and S3, an ill-fated guide to King’s Landing from the common perspective. And she had a great, meaningful death as far as its function is concerned. Poor Ros. There is no other side. :(

  228. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:00 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    I find him fascinating too, and don’t feel like he’s gone too far here; they seem to be making it pretty clear that his ultimate aim is the Iron Throne, and every move he makes is done as a way of pleasing those who can help him – be it Lysa Arryn, Cersei, or in this case, Joffrey.

  229. Arthur
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:01 am | Permalink

    Hmmm with the synopsis of the last 2 episodes and the fact Jojen told Bran he saw Jon Snow, could the “Bran sees a Ghost” synopsis mean the book scene? Where Bran and Jon almost meet up and Summer helps save Jon’s ass along with Ghost?

    I hope so!

  230. Tim
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:01 am | Permalink

    The idea they killed Ros as they did because some didn’t like the character is delusional.

  231. Ser Lyonel the Laughing Storm
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:01 am | Permalink

    The death of Ros was beyond trashy

  232. NDC
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:01 am | Permalink

    I usually have no problems with differences from the books and love even the most boring episodes. I never complain…like ever. BUT WHERE THE FUCK I. THE SEVEN KINGDOMS IS FRANCE??? FRENCH LACE LORAS??? FRENCH LACE? Whoever wrote and edited that episode needs a pay dock.

  233. Lisa
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:03 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    I think you might be viewing him through rose-colored glasses. I also find book Littlefinger to be fascinating. But he’s still a really bad person and clearly enjoys what he does. Using Lysa as an example, instead of just pushing her to her death and being done with it, he tells her that he never cared for her. That’s a sadistic sort of cruelness right there. Of course, what he had done to Jeyne Poole was even worse. I don’t think the books make clear that he’s seeking the throne, but doing it all for the sake of chaos and just because he can. He’s like a ‘cleaner’ version of Joffrey. I think that monologue he delivered to Varys was almost spot-on for his book ambitions. One of his first monologues in Season 1 was to the whores and went something like, “I’m going to f&$% them”.

  234. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:04 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    My impression of Showfinger is nothing stands before his mission, and any loss is to be cut without remorse. He just feels nothing for anyone. Even his so-called love is a reflection of his former inadequacy. There is nothing else to him, in the show and the books, but his ends. Selling Ros for target practice was a win-win-win to offset the loss represented by her compromise. Same with the nameless Lysene weeper. :|

  235. Michael274
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:04 am | Permalink

    Greatjon of Slumber,

    I don’t think he/she is serious . Just making a bit of fun of some overreactions from this episode by some people .

  236. Arthur
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:05 am | Permalink

    NDC,

    Lol dude relax he said “fringed”, some of us thought he said French at first too but he didn’t.

  237. NDC
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:05 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    I hope you’re right. I rewound it and hubby an I both heard French twice.

  238. Ace
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:06 am | Permalink

    I actually thought Ros’s death was the most powerful moment of the episode. It was tragic. Here was a character who came from the North to King’s Landing to try and make a living. She was smart and resourceful. But she kept coming up against more powerful people (LF, Cersei, now Joffrey). It was the plight of the common folk…there is only so far such people can rise. There was that scene in season 2 where LF basically warned her that if she was a bad investment, bad things would befall her. Yet she tried to move out of her situation….and just when it seemed like she was going to be able to do that through Varys, she gets squashed by someone more powerful again. And through her tragedy we see that Littlefinger is not a man to be messed with…the kind of man that inspires the fear that Varys has of him acquiring power.

  239. Jason
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:06 am | Permalink

    Once again really enjoyed the episode. This episode seems to set things up for the stretch run. I dont get the lack of epicness comments. Everything cant be balls to the wall all the time throughout a seasons story arc or those big moments wouldn’t matter. That being said the “climb” of the wall felt pretty epic to me. It just re-inforced how high quality this show is and John’s story is really progressing now after slowly moving along through the first two seasons. As this season goes on I keep realizing how lucky we are that this show has become what it is now. Just think back to the beginning when we were concerned if the show would ever be successful and what the alternative could have been.

  240. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:06 am | Permalink

    AlleraSarella,

    That scene was shot in Northern Ireland not Croatia or Iceland and is therefore subject to British laws. Or maybe the whole EU has the same laws. Not sure.
    The rabbits could be fake. If they are real they were most likely purchased already dead from a butcher shop. It’s ridiculous to assume they were killed for the show.
    There is no way they dismembered actual horses for the show.

  241. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:07 am | Permalink

    AlleraSarella:
    I and my entire family have permanently checked out.Not watching anymore.I’m done, the rabbit scene did it.Before I could believe that the dead animals were fiberglass or digital, now I know that they killed those rabbits the morning of for that moronic scene between Meera and Osha.Now all I see are actors.All I think of now is the animal cruelty poster child for HBO that was Luck, except for the fact I think GoT gets away with it because they are filming in Ireland and Croatia where laws regarding animal cruelty are less stringent.I feel like now I wonder did they really dismember horses for the Fist of the First Men scene?I rather hope the show goes the way of Luck…All I can think is if they had just put some effort into rewriting the episode, those rabbits never would have died, at least they wouldn’t have died for a show I once had a profound respect for.To watch and KNOW that what was once a living, breathing animal is being skinned removes you from the fantasy and destroys the ability of the show to take you into the story.Now everyone is just an actor.They permanently jumped the proverbial shark and I sincerely hope that every single animal rights group I can think of lands on this, because they effectively eliminated Luck and hopefully now GoT will suffer the same fate.Funny thing, Peter Dinklage supports Farm Santuary which takes abused and neglected rabbits that were going to be used for meat.Oh the irony.

    If this is a parody post, it’s absolutely brilliant.

  242. LordDavos12
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:07 am | Permalink

    NDC,

    Fringe/Fringed

  243. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:08 am | Permalink

    NDC:
    WompWomp,

    I hope you’re right. I rewound it and hubby an I both heard French twice.

    This is why I always use closed captioning the first time I watch an episode.

  244. Evan
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:10 am | Permalink

    Glad you’re not doing the sound. He said fringed.

  245. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:14 am | Permalink

    A woman enjoyed the episode, and felt that it was mainly a “bridge” episode to connect characters with things they’re meant to experience in future episodes. There was still some interesting action with the climbing the wall thing, and the creepy Theon stuff, and Olenna vs. Tywin – WOW that was great! More Olenna please! Don’t think the Theon stuff sits well, something about the mystery being missing now when you see it all maybe? Not sure, perhaps it’s too disturbing to see it…

  246. NDC
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:14 am | Permalink

    I am relaxed. ;) I don’t really get angry. We made a joke about someone losing their job cuz we kept going back and hearing French. Even if its fringed, still a poor choice in lines…sounds A LOT like French and everyone I follow on twitter thought so too. lol

  247. Lexyvil
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:14 am | Permalink

    charles,

    I heard he’ll be writing two episodes for Season 4~

  248. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:15 am | Permalink

    French sleeves is this season’s Hoffman chant from Blackwater. Or pie romancer!

  249. Turncloak
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:15 am | Permalink

    I don’t like how the brotherhood sold out Gendry. I would have preffered they have Gendry make the choice to see his uncle and first family member since his mother. Makes the brotherhood look like douches. I thought the wall climb was a bit cheesy. I loved Littlefinger and Varys. I enjoyed Ramsay but was disappointed we didn’t get an advancement in his plot. Roose rhymes with goose! Like his scenes

  250. Lisa
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:16 am | Permalink

    AlleraSarella,

    Hate to break it to you, but they used a real stag carcass in Tywin’s intro scene. It was even reported on this very site (and confirmed in several Charles Dance interviews). They obviously followed the laws of the country they were filming in. I am sort of saddened that one can give up on a show because of an idea of supposed animal cruelty and not because, you know, human cruelty. Obviously they follow all laws, but there are still child actors, scenes of rape, torture, death, etc. Since you’re so concerned about the animals, I just wonder how you managed to get through the books.

  251. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:16 am | Permalink

    AlleraSarella,

    I’m sorry, but people of your position are beyond my comprehension. Thousands of people die every day, along with countless animals both in human care (or institutionalized neglect) and in the wild. If you’re as deeply attuned to the supposed injustice of the rabbits’ suffering, how can you sleep when all the world’s suffering is public knowledge? Really, how can you sleep? Ever? ._.

    As I type this, seven baby cottontails are under my family’s supervision, having been given a roof to replace their damaged nest and given sanctuary until they can forage on their own post-weaning. We do what we can for them because they came our way. That’s how most people deal with issues instead of wishing their ways on the world with abandon.

    I’m sorry, but your wishing the entire Game of Thrones production be doomed to failure on this basis disgusts me. There is nothing constructive about your reaction.

  252. Turncloak
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:16 am | Permalink

    Did anyone notice how Melisandre was given the lines from the Ghost of high heart to Arya?

  253. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:18 am | Permalink

    Steven Swanson,

    I doubt it. I don’t see the comedic precedent. As much as I detest the sentiment (at face value), the horse deaths of Luck was serious, serious business.

  254. Richard
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:19 am | Permalink

    Highly doubt they killed the rabbits just for the show. Like the deer Tywin was skinning in Season 1, they probably just borrowed them from local butcher shop and were eaten afterwards (not wasted). The horse heads were fake, by the way. Hope that helps.

    AlleraSarella:
    I and my entire family have permanently checked out.Not watching anymore.I’m done, the rabbit scene did it.Before I could believe that the dead animals were fiberglass or digital, now I know that they killed those rabbits the morning of for that moronic scene between Meera and Osha.Now all I see are actors.All I think of now is the animal cruelty poster child for HBO that was Luck, except for the fact I think GoT gets away with it because they are filming in Ireland and Croatia where laws regarding animal cruelty are less stringent.I feel like now I wonder did they really dismember horses for the Fist of the First Men scene?I rather hope the show goes the way of Luck…All I can think is if they had just put some effort into rewriting the episode, those rabbits never would have died, at least they wouldn’t have died for a show I once had a profound respect for.To watch and KNOW that what was once a living, breathing animal is being skinned removes you from the fantasy and destroys the ability of the show to take you into the story.Now everyone is just an actor.They permanently jumped the proverbial shark and I sincerely hope that every single animal rights group I can think of lands on this, because they effectively eliminated Luck and hopefully now GoT will suffer the same fate.Funny thing, Peter Dinklage supports Farm Santuary which takes abused and neglected rabbits that were going to be used for meat.Oh the irony.

  255. Isabelle
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:20 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming:
    It just feels like in the show [Littlefinger] really enjoys doing evil things, whereas in the book it’s all just a means to an end. The end being his ass on the Iron Throne. At least that part of his character the show did get right.

    Greatjon of Slumber:…they seem to be making it pretty clear that [Littlefinger's] ultimate aim is the Iron Throne…

    I got the impression that Book!Littlefinger relished his various misdeeds, but that he was so adept at hiding it, the POV characters with whom he interacted could never catch on. TV!Littlefinger probably has to be more obvious about it so the audience can get that something’s up with this guy. And do you think he actually wants to sit the IT himself, or rather, would like to be the ultimate puppet master, with a candidate of his own choosing/shaping as the monarch? Monarchs also make easy targets, and Littlefinger likes his own life a bit too much to put himself out front-and-centre like that.

    Winter Is Coming:
    I may be looking at Littlefinger through rose-colored glasses, since I find his character so fascinating in the book.

    Varys is one of my favourites to read about, and he’s probably partly responsible for starting the Rebellion, leading to the deaths of thousands of people. He’s huge trouble, but GRRM writes his antagonists so well that we can’t help but want to read more about them, can we? Damn you, GRRM! : )

  256. SerCountryFriedSteak
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:20 am | Permalink

    I actively HATED this episode… Just like last season’s stalling before Blackwater, this was an episode where the forward momentum was Jon climbing the Wall & Ros’ death.

    That’s it in 60 minutes.

    For every right move these guys make, they f-ing do this stalling BS is driving me nuts

    If I could give it 0 stars, I would

  257. Suzaku
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:20 am | Permalink

    Bardard:
    I found the montage accompanying Littlefinger’s Ladder/Climb monologue to be… disconcerting. Many analyses have talked about taking the show on its own terms, particularly adjustments in storytelling to play to the strengths of the visual medium. Montage is unquestionably an effective storytelling tool for film and television, but its use felt jarring in this instance. I’ll need to re-watch it to see if it bothers me again, because I can’t say much more than that it felt weird and somehow out of place. Perhaps it was just the too on-the-nose climax of Littlefinger’s “climb” speech juxtaposed against the completion of Jon and Ygritte’s ascent. It felt too cute and out of place with the visual language the show has used to this point.

    Has the show used a montage like that before, one I’m just not recalling?Anyone else particularly react to that sequence?

    I think what made the montage-with-voiceover feel off was moreso the fact that we’ve gone nearly 26 entire episodes without the technique being used at all. The disembodied voice aspect is also somewhat less grounded, in a more obvious Hollywood way, than what we’re used to with the show.

  258. Mimsy
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:20 am | Permalink

    I’m finding the discussion about the episode quite entertaining. I’m surprised that many of you don’t think Littlefinger is as devious in the books. He is a cruel, self serving, heartless bastard and he will destroy anyone that gets in his way.

    I loved the ending! The vision on top of the wall was beautiful and exciting. To the north of the wall you have death and almost uninhabitable conditions and to the south of the wall there is life and hope. I didn’t view it as “romantic” but I did get the sense that Jon and Ygritte saw more than the mission at hand.

    Poor Ros, Joffrey is an abomination.

    Queen of Thornes does not disappoint.

    Meera and Osha’s pissing contest was fun to watch. I wish they could squeeze in more of Bran’s story.

  259. GoT
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:21 am | Permalink

    to be honest, i didn’t like this episode, it was the weakest yet.
    some scenes were good but i hated the pour sadism. why such scenes? instead there should have been more dany.

  260. loco73
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:21 am | Permalink

    AlleraSarella,

    Thank you for no longer watching the show. Good bye.

  261. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:22 am | Permalink

    SerCountryFriedSteak,

    I seriously can’t tell since I’ve seen you post around here and there. Are you a troll character?

  262. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:28 am | Permalink

    Suzaku,

    I’m not averse to experimentation. The first season was pretty conservative in this regard, even overly so. S2 had some minor variety (such as Tyrion duping the Small Council members with his designs for Myrcella), but S3 has been wildly successful for its cinematic deviations. Can’t say I stood up and clapped for the montage, but the content of Littlefiger’s speech meshed really well with the shots and music in this one’s humble opinion. Jarring considering the vanilla precedents of S1 and S1? Perhaps. But new devices such as a real-time montage can serve the show and expand the show’s narrative vocabulary. It feels more like film (not just as in a movie, but a work of film like any other show) this season, in the best way.

  263. my watch begins
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:28 am | Permalink

    Actually my fellow book purist, it seems Ros is in fact in the books. Allow me to direct your attention to this passage in the first book. Ahem A red-haired whore in a wisp of painted silk pushed open a second-story window. “Is it the boy king that’s died now?” she shouted down, leaning out over the street. “Ah, that’s a boy for you, they never last long.” As she laughed, a naked man slid his arms around her from behind, biting her neck and rubbing the heavy white breasts that hung loose beneath her shift. “Stupid slut,” the fat man shouted up. “The king’s not dead, that’s only summoning bells. One tower tolling. When the king dies, they ring every bell in the city.”
    “Here, quit your biting, or I’ll ring your bells,” the women in the window said to the man behind her, pushing him off with an elbow. “So who is it died, if not the king?”
    -A Song of Ice and Fired Book 1: A Game of Thrones paperback edition page 722 So there, take that book purist…Ros was in the books and even had some dialogue. Personally I wanted to see Ros sit the iron throne at the end…ya know a whore sits the throne…but what I want and what I get are always two different things. RIP Ros! : . (

  264. Suzaku
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:29 am | Permalink

    SerCountryFriedSteak:
    I actively HATED this episode… Just like last season’s stalling before Blackwater, this was an episode where the forward momentum was Jon climbing the Wall & Ros’ death.

    That’s it in 60 minutes.

    For every right move these guys make, they f-ing do this stalling BS is driving me nuts

    If I could give it 0 stars, I would

    In addition to the points you mentioned:

    Edmure to marry the Frey girl.
    Jaime to be sent to King’s Landing, Brienne to be left behind.
    Sansa learning that she won’t marry Loras.
    Gendry taken by Melisandre.

    I would say that’s plenty of forward momentum, with some hints of foreshadowing for Sam, Tyrion, and Arya.

    I think the only character that’s actually in a “holding pattern” is Theon, for obvious reasons.

    Of course, someone who would rank any episode of Game of Thrones as a 0/5 has some weird expectations for television. Even at its worst, Thrones is well above average as a show.

    NDC:
    Even if its fringed, still a poor choice in lines…sounds A LOT like French and everyone I follow on twitter thought so too. lol

    I don’t think “fringe sleeves” sounds anything like “french silk.”

  265. Kalacakra
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:29 am | Permalink

    Just out of curiosity
    Why is everyone so interested in acquiring Harrenhal? It’s a ruin.

  266. Dogmayor
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:30 am | Permalink

    GoT,

    Yes, less sadism and more Dany….like when she locked two people in a vault, basically burying them alive. Or tying someone to a funeral pyre so they can burn to death. Or delighting in having her dragon roast a warlock…or slavemaster and destroying a city! Yes, less sadism!

  267. Dogmayor
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:31 am | Permalink

    Kalacakra,

    Correction, it’s the largest ruin in the world!

  268. Joon Snoo
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:32 am | Permalink

    Somebody should make sure D&D know that Arya and Jon are wargs, because 26 episodes into the series I’m not sure they do.

  269. Dogmayor
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:32 am | Permalink

    NDC,

    You and your friends need to get your hearing checked.

  270. Suzaku
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:32 am | Permalink

    WompWomp:
    Suzaku,

    I’m not averse to experimentation. The first season was pretty conservative in this regard, even overly so. S2 had some minor variety (such as Tyrion duping the Small Council members with his designs for Myrcella), but S3 has been wildly successful for its cinematic deviations. Can’t say I stood up and clapped for the montage, but the content of Littlefiger’s speech meshed really well with the shots and music in this one’s humble opinion. Jarring considering the vanilla precedents of S1 and S1? Perhaps. But new devices such as a real-time montage can serve the show and expand the show’s narrative vocabulary. It feels more like film (not just as in a movie, but a work of film like any other show) this season, in the best way.

    I don’t disagree. I expect the technique will be used again in the future, and will feel more natural as we’ll have already experienced it once.

    This season has certainly been more experimental than the previous two, and I think it’s largely because, after two seasons of success, they’ve gotten a lot more confident with the material.

  271. Richard
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:33 am | Permalink

    also see..

    A Wrinkle In Time
    Earthsea
    Dune
    Legend Of The Seeker
    The Martian Chronicles
    Riverworld

    iam76:
    episode was great.

    People should enjoy it more.

    and yes i read the books… go watch defiance or da vinci’s demons and come back to this show… GOT is quality.

  272. Winter Is Coming
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:33 am | Permalink

    WompWomp, well said. I think they did use the monologue/montage technique once before, at the end of Blackwater when Cersei is telling the fable to Tommen, they showed shots of the battle over her narration.

    I liked it then and I liked it tonight.

  273. The Greatjon
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:34 am | Permalink

    I enjoyed the little bonding moment between Sam and Gilly, and Tyrion’s line about how “sometimes we think we want to hear something…” was hilarious.

  274. Suzaku
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:35 am | Permalink

    Joon Snoo:
    Somebody should make sure D&D know that Arya and Jon are wargs, because 26 episodes into the series I’m not sure they do.

    They know more about the series than you do, that’s for sure.

    They’ll lay the groundwork when it’s important to lay the groundwork. They don’t need to fill up a bunch of screentime with Jon and Arya having wolfdreams, plus Bran’s wolfdreams. For now it isn’t really relevant to the story at all.

  275. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:35 am | Permalink

    Dogmayor,

    Please tell me you’re a Delocated fan.

    I thought the vault-sealing was the most gruesome fate imaginable for those two, among the worst for anyone in the show to date. Aside from the poetic dimension of the punishment, it freaked me out imagining what those two would do to try to survive just a bit longer in that hopeless situation. Seeing that have me chills. It’s the mixed blessing of the human imagination… -_-

  276. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:35 am | Permalink

    Kalacakra,

    Best bathhouse in all the Seven Kingdoms?

  277. loco73
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:36 am | Permalink

    SerCountryFriedSteak,

    I’m sure you could do a much better job directing this show and writing the scripts…why don’t you give it a try and see…

  278. Joon Snoo
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:37 am | Permalink

    Suzaku,

    As adorable as your overly defensive posture is, I can’t agree with it. One scene for each of them showing them waking from a wolf dream isn’t sucking up time, especially given how much time they wasted doing nothing with Jon and Ygritte last season.

  279. Lisa
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:37 am | Permalink

    Joon Snoo,

    I’m sure they know. They’ve only just introduced the term ‘warg’ this season. Patience.

  280. SergioCQH
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:39 am | Permalink

    You people who are whining about the slowness of the story must have wiped the first half of ASoS from your memories. The pace of the story on the screen is only accurately reflecting the source material.

  281. Shock Me Sane
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:39 am | Permalink

    A) Character heavy, non-action episodes are necessary so that emotional payoff actually occurs during dramatic sequences. There is no TV show that doesn’t suck that is the Game of Thrones equivalent of Dany constantly burning people with dragons and freeing slave armies. Sorry to rain on that parade.

    B) All the people that think Arya is going to kill Cersei are quite mad. The end result of that equation has already been so heavily foreshadowed in the books that it isn’t even a possibility.

  282. Currer Bell
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:39 am | Permalink

    Disappointment, again! *Sigh*

    Shirtless, writhing Theon – no fun (unless one is into the S&M thingy)
    Fully-clothed, bound Gendry – no fun (didn’t even get the bondage thingy right)

    Bad, D & D, bad! *Strikes noses with rolled up newspaper*

  283. Zack
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:42 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    Agreed! I am an enormous fan of The Cask of Amontillado, and adding in a second person, eeeeugh…

    *shiver*

  284. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:42 am | Permalink

    Suzaku,

    Definitely, and it shows in the show. My minor reservations regardihg the series have been blown out of the water this year. Always been a fan of both the books and the show, but seeing firmly television-television like Breaking Bad reminded me GoT didn’t have the grasp of the language of film I wish it had, which I felt was a shame since it certainly didn’t lack for production values in other meaningful areas. Well, we all may have our quibbles with this character or that scene, but for the sake of simplicity let’s leave those out of this line of thought.

    The important thing on my end is I feel so hopelessly spoiled by this show now. :>

  285. Suzaku
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:43 am | Permalink

    AlleraSarella:
    I and my entire family have permanently checked out.Not watching anymore.I’m done, the rabbit scene did it.Before I could believe that the dead animals were fiberglass or digital, now I know that they killed those rabbits the morning of for that moronic scene between Meera and Osha.Now all I see are actors.All I think of now is the animal cruelty poster child for HBO that was Luck, except for the fact I think GoT gets away with it because they are filming in Ireland and Croatia where laws regarding animal cruelty are less stringent.I feel like now I wonder did they really dismember horses for the Fist of the First Men scene?I rather hope the show goes the way of Luck…All I can think is if they had just put some effort into rewriting the episode, those rabbits never would have died, at least they wouldn’t have died for a show I once had a profound respect for.To watch and KNOW that what was once a living, breathing animal is being skinned removes you from the fantasy and destroys the ability of the show to take you into the story.Now everyone is just an actor.They permanently jumped the proverbial shark and I sincerely hope that every single animal rights group I can think of lands on this, because they effectively eliminated Luck and hopefully now GoT will suffer the same fate.Funny thing, Peter Dinklage supports Farm Santuary which takes abused and neglected rabbits that were going to be used for meat.Oh the irony.

    I could give a rat’s ass, as long as the cast and crew cooked and ate the rabbits after they were skinned.

    There’s no abuse in breaking a rabbit’s neck and skinning it for food. That’s how people the world over survive day-to-day, and have done so for thousands of years.

  286. WildSeed
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:47 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming:
    I may be looking at Littlefinger through rose-colored glasses, since I find his character so fascinating in the book. It’s true he did a lot of bad things in the book as well. It just feels like in the show he really enjoys doing evil things, whereas in the book it’s all just a means to an end. The end being his ass on the Iron Throne. At least that part of his character the show did get right.

    I know what you mean. It’s a challenge at times to quell expectations of any said
    character or scene, for fear anticipating too much or unreasonable expectations.
    The reverse may happen too where certain features are overemphasized . There’s
    always a balancing act with fans with foreknowledge, not that we’re unappreciative
    of the results or the creative process, it’s just that sometimes what we see and hear
    is occasionally jarring to the senses.

    I may have overstated your case, or deflected on mine, yet I hope theres a valid
    point to consider ( in general).

  287. Suzaku
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:48 am | Permalink

    Joon Snoo:
    Suzaku,

    As adorable as your overly defensive posture is, I can’t agree with it. One scene for each of them showing them waking from a wolf dream isn’t sucking up time, especially given how much time they wasted doing nothing with Jon and Ygritte last season.

    They can have the dreams when they need to have them, like maybe in the actual season when it’s relevant to the story.

    If they’re going to feature more warging dreams I’d rather them just focus on Bran’s, for now.

  288. MX
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:49 am | Permalink

    B,

    You should not be allowed to have sex, especially not with women. I am serious.

    Now that they killed off the best-looking woman in Westeros, they might as well not bother any more showing us any naked bodies. Just the same old same old Protestant fear of sex as worse than death, beh — I would have expected something more layered from someone named Sakharov.

    The Theon scene was ridiculously extended. There was very little intrigue in the show, making it relatively boring — that’s why so many shockers were built in.

    This one may have been the worst episode yet in my book.

  289. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:49 am | Permalink

    Suzaku,

    If proto-people stuck to salad and didn’t get sweet on meat, all our brains would be a good deal smaller. Just sayin’.

  290. Walter_Eagle
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:50 am | Permalink

    Updated Characters with the Most Lines – Season 3 thus far:

    1. Tyrion – 141
    2. Jaime – 84
    3. Cersei – 75
    4. Arya – 72
    5. Olenna – 70
    6. Thoros – 64
    7. Sansa – 62
    8. Tywin – 60
    9. Robb – 59
    10. Theon – 57

    11. Margaery – 54
    12. Brienne – 53
    13. Jon – 51
    14. Daenerys – 47
    15. Missandei (translating is a double boost) – 46
    16. Varys – 45
    17. Jofrey – 41
    17. Ramsay – 41
    19. Littlefinger – 40
    19. Kraznys – 40

    21. Shae – 39
    22. Bran – 38
    23. Bronn – 37
    24. Davos – 36
    25. Ygritte – 35

    The season needs more Stannis, Davos, Catelyn, Hound, and Bran.

  291. WildSeed
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:51 am | Permalink

    Arthur: Finally we get a little Meera backstory

    It was a shared scene with an unexpected Osha, but yeah, Meera finally speaks
    up. I’m looking forward to her development on the show. Glad that a few story lines
    aren’t being rushed too much.

  292. Soulgraven
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:52 am | Permalink

    Having been lurking in these threads and discussions for quite sometime, reading some of the responses and statements made here has bothered me enough to finally post. That being said…

    While everyone is entitled to their opinion, that doesnt mean it still doesnt suck. A trend ive noticed lately, more so this season than any other (due to increased popularity and traffic), is overblown hyperbole; “Worst episode ever!”, “Best Episode ever!” People saying this episode and other episodes this season are too slow need to be silent and appreciate how great this show and season are. Any of your “favorite” episodes seem that good because of the character development and political manuevering the “slow” episodes have brought you.

    While Bryan Cogman is a fantastic writer and the episodes he has scripted have been brilliant, so too have all of the other writers. Scenes that appear in all shows have multiple contributions among the staff, enjoy them. Some poster made a criticism about D&D’s obsession with bad choices, but it is BECAUSE of them that Game of Thrones has turned out as amazing as it has.

    For any of you that do not like all of the torture, blood, and pain that has been displayed this season, have you even watched the previous 2 seasons or read the books? Things have not been pleasant: visual decapitations of characters (and horses), Yoren skewed, a bard’s tongue pulled from his mouth, Needle shoved through a kid’s throat, rats gnawing through stomachs, crushed heads, men burned alive and sliced brains at Blackwater too name but a few. Any book reader or anyone paying attention to the show would know what the Flayed Man banner represent, and its not being tickled with a feather.

    Being overly sensitive and squeamish of Theon being tortured proves that the writers know EXACTLY what they are doing and how they want you to feel. The viewer needs to see the torture so that they can visually feel the pain Theon is meant to. Its necessary.

    Its called the Game of Thrones because each episode and the story is an intricate game of chess, and every move and sacrifice have significance. The first move on the board is just as important as the checkmate.

    Valar Morghulis.

  293. Wolfman27
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:52 am | Permalink

    Pipepro:
    I don’t know how they can cover all that needs to happen in this season, we have 2 weddings and tyrion killing his father. I think that would get viewers attention to end on that part.

    The Royal Wedding, Tyrion’s trial and Tyrion killing his father all happen next season. They split the third book into two seasons.

  294. Sarys
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:54 am | Permalink

    In my opinion, it was the best of S3. I don’t understand all the poor reviews I’ve been seeing already online. It felt very well-rounded and was the most fully-realized, in and of itself, for me.

    As for anyone who lost their **** over the rabbit skinning … I have no words.

  295. sCor
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:54 am | Permalink

    I don’t get, why so many people don’t like the Littlefinger scene, or find him too cruel.

    You do realize, that he started the whole damn war? There is nothing, that he would not be willing to do.

  296. Wolfman27
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:55 am | Permalink

    Soulgraven,

    Thank you for this. My feelings precisely.

  297. Lex
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:55 am | Permalink

    3.5 or 4 out of 5.

    First impressions are that it was the slowest episode of the season so far… but I kind of expected that, after the last few exciting episodes.

    The climb up the Wall was awesome, felt like a movie. And I enjoyed the Jon/Ygritte interactions.

    There was some good acting (I really enjoyed Tywin/Olenna), but overall most of the scenes felt like setup.

    Not sure how I feel about Ros yet, because I spoiled myself right before watching the episode… but I definitely wasn’t expecting her to die anytime soon.

  298. Dogmayor
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:55 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    I’m a big time Delocated fan as my name can attest. Some of the funniest television ever produced.

  299. Michael274
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:56 am | Permalink

    MX,

    You’re just butthurt like the rest of the people , Worst episode yet ? From non book readers all i heard was good things, just admit you are upset about the book changes and that’s why you are whining .

  300. Lisa
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:56 am | Permalink

    Soulgraven,

    Well said.

  301. my watch begins
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:56 am | Permalink

    Actually my fellow book purist, it seems Ros is in fact in the books. Allow me to direct your attention to this passage in the first book. Ahem A red-haired whore in a wisp of painted silk pushed open a second-story window. “Is it the boy king that’s died now?” she shouted down, leaning out over the street. “Ah, that’s a boy for you, they never last long.” As she laughed, a naked man slid his arms around her from behind, biting her neck and rubbing the heavy white breasts that hung loose beneath her shift. “Stupid slut,” the fat man shouted up. “The king’s not dead, that’s only summoning bells. One tower tolling. When the king dies, they ring every bell in the city.”
    “Here, quit your biting, or I’ll ring your bells,” the women in the window said to the man behind her, pushing him off with an elbow. “So who is it died, if not the king?”
    -A Song of Ice and Fired Book 1: A Game of Thrones paperback edition page 722 So there, take that book purist…Ros was in the books and even had some dialogue. Personally I wanted to see Ros sit the iron throne at the end…ya know a whore sits the throne…but what I want and what I get are always two different things. RIP Ros! : . (

  302. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:58 am | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Some people (watchers and book readers alike) seem to expect equal treatment of every storyline in terms of time. I can see where they’re coming from since we all have our favorite segments, but not every bit has a lot going for it at any given time, just like in the books when you’d wait chapter after chapter for that special somebody to take the stage again. I’m sure most of the characters will have their day, if not in this season then the next. I’m loving each episode this year as a lavish experience, not a weekly check-up. I feel book readers above all people should be familiar with this approach. [laughs]

  303. Shan
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:58 am | Permalink

    Kalacakra:
    Just out of curiosity
    Why is everyone so interested in acquiring Harrenhal? It’s a ruin.

    It’s the traditional ruling seat of the Riverlands — or, it was, until it was burned down, anyway. The seat has since been moved to Riverrun, but there’s still a lot of prestige attached to owning. It’s not a coincidence that when Tyrion gave Littlefinger Harrenhall, he also made him Lord Paramount of the Riverlands — nominally, anyway.

    Plus, it’s not actually held by any House, so there’s that. Most castles aren’t up for grabs — even if the people who rule them are defeated, there are laws about who they can and can’t go to. Giving away Harrenhall is easy because the family that built it is dead. Lord Tywin, if I remember correctly, also made some follower Lord of Castamere in a later book, presumably something that was possible for exactly the same reason.

  304. GG
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:59 am | Permalink

    I seriously considered giving this episode 3/5 stars on the poll below but then I reconsidered Melisandre’s scenes & the stuff on the Wall and I upgraded it to 4/5. Nevertheless, it is, without doubt, the worst GoT ep to date.

    I know GoT kills a lot of people and I’ve made my peace with that. I don’t have a problem with the idea that Ros died. It’s how she died that’s pissing me off. Personally, I liked Ros. She wasn’t my fave character by any stretch of the imagination but i still liked her. Here was this girl just looking to get ahead. After such a degrading life, she finally manages to rise up the ladder and escape the whorehouese, only to be tied to Jorrfey’s bed post and shot. I would have been more OK with it if they’d shown her dead in an alley somewhere.

    Whatsmore, it was so pointless. It added nothing to the story. If Margaery had been in the room and had been left alone with the body when Joff left, that would have made sense. Finally, Margaery was being exposed to the depths of the King’s cruelty(and it would have worked really well as a motivation for the PW). It would have been even better if she was being forced to shoot Ros(it would have been an excellent continuation of the “would you like to watch me kill something” scene from earlier in the season. Margaery was being made to eat her words). But no. Instead we got this pointless expose into Joffrey. I look back now on all the scenes we had with her in s2, with her crying and being sad blah blah blah. What was the point of those scenes if they were gonna off her like this?

    And, once again, the show seems to be suggesting that Littlefinger is smarter than Varys. LITTLEFINGER CANNOT OUTTHINK VARYS!!!! BOOK VARYS WOULD DEFICATE ALL OVER HIM!!!!! The idea that Littlefinger could identify Varys’ spy and do this to her without Varys even knowing is so against book canon, it blows my mind. I despise the way the show is underplaying Varys. I’m on board with almost all the changes the show made to the books, but not this one. It’s pointless and stupid.

    *Rant over* That said, kudos to Esme Bianco for her work. She did a great job throughout her tenure. But I am so pissed off with that final scene.

  305. MX
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:00 am | Permalink

    Michael274,

    I reserve the word “butthurt” for suburban car drivers who revel in torture fantasies because they believe themselves to be immortal. I have lived through a war, and I can assure you that the types who blather the most about deliciousness of death are the first to wet their pants when real death looks at them.

    Butthurt indeed, hah!

  306. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:01 am | Permalink

    Dogmayor,

    Sorry, can’t make out your comment through the miasma of my grinder high. [sitar echoes in the background]

    At long last, a fellow fan! I’ve only seen the second season in its fullness, but it was one of the best comedies I’ve ever seen. Each episode was pure gold. That show seriously needs more love.

  307. Michael274
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:02 am | Permalink

    MX,

    Are you on drugs or something ? Get over the fact that you have been exposed as a book purist .

  308. MX
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:05 am | Permalink

    I’ve only read one book, you fool. No drugs — just the reality of not having grown up in front of a TV screen and that people I know, including members of my family, have been shot or bombed to death. If people understood real death, away from their screens and personal fantasies, this world would be a better place.

  309. GG
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:06 am | Permalink

    I’m also a bit disappointed with the way they handled Sansa’s wedding. It would have been so much better if she’d gone to the Sept and had no idea she was about to marry Tyrion. Would have been so much more enjoyable. If she had to fins out beforehand, I at least wanted to see her being told. This whole thing where they cut away to her sobbing as Littlefinger sails away was kind of a letdown

  310. Michael274
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:06 am | Permalink

    MX,

    Whatever dude, live in your own fantasy . I’m done talking to you .

  311. Dogmayor
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:07 am | Permalink

    GG,

    There are countless characters that suffer senseless, brutal deaths in the show and the books, Ros is no different. As for Varys and Littlefinger, Littlefinger did plenty in the books that Varys didn’t seem to have knowledge of. Also, up until now, Varys has clearly been the better operator on the television show. In fact, they’ve had Littlefinger make several boneheaded moves that have seemed very out of character.

  312. Dogmayor
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:10 am | Permalink

    MX,

    Maybe we’re just mature enough to be able to separate fiction from reality.

  313. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:10 am | Permalink

    Soulgraven,

    Amen. I do wish people let things sink in rather than immediately reporting their critical kneejerks which appear to have broken up their viewing experience for all the pain this scene or that character or that line caused them. It would seem some people have forgotten how to watch TV, as strange as that sounds. There’s more active criticism than immersion evident in the most vocal takeaways. It’s hard for me to consider this a “slow episode.” That sounds like the diagnosis of an action junkie, which is off-base regarding this particular program. I find this and other episodes this season to be RICH episodes. What other show can so confidently transport us to places that don’t exist the way this show has? Where else can we play fly-on-the-wall to so many magnetic personalities entrenched in that aforementioned world?

  314. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:11 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    They also used it with Commander Mormont in the S1 finale when the Nights Watch was leaving Castle Black.

  315. Kels
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:13 am | Permalink

    I absolutely loved the Thoros and Melisandre scene. His humility vs. her haughtiness was brilliant. I’m not a big Mel fan, so it was nice to see her become upset that the drunk priest who gave up on his mission had greater power/ favor with their god.

  316. Croccifixio
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:16 am | Permalink

    got some concern, if melisandre met arya even though she didnt knew her. how will her vision of seeing a girl riding a horse in ADWD plays out?

    just bothered me. although it was a terrific foreshadwing of what arya is going to be and i interpret it as she becoming a FW

  317. WildSeed
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:18 am | Permalink

    Walter_Eagle: The season needs more Stannis, Davos, Catelyn, Hound, and Bran.

      

    Don’t see that happening this season, unless all is said by Catelyn in the
    end
    and Stannis suddenly remembers his purpose. Theres a lot of stuff
    that needs to be said at the Twins and at Kings landing with Tywin’s
    machinations
    . The Hound, Davos and Bran will get their turns into
    next season. Probably Mance as well. We need Roose Bolton to
    show all his stripes too.

  318. The Pain Yak
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:26 am | Permalink

    GG,

    If Littlefinger hadn’t been capable of figuring out who betrayed him, despite how blatant it was, we would have had to chalk the show version of him up as a true moron. It’s not like it was subtle.

    The big failure, then: Varys not taking any precautions to protect his source after such a blatant betrayal.

  319. Syrio
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:27 am | Permalink

    LF is a cold blooded villain in the books ,so I don’t understand your complaint. Book LF might have been more subtle, but he’s every bit as cruel and ruthless(remember how he disposes of Dontos and how he tortures Marilion?).

    LF is and has always been a really really bad guy.

    My biggest complaint is the Theon scenes, they should have bit the bullet and left Theon out of this season. This cut to Theon for a 5 minute torture scene every episode is not interesting, it’s nauseating and worse than that, it’s boring.

  320. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:29 am | Permalink

    For all the bitching I did about about Theons story i still had not watched tonight’s episode until now. I just haven’t been enjoying Theons stuff this season and assumed I would I hate it but the scene wasn’t that bad, probably one of the more entertaining sequences in the episode actually. This was one of the weaker GoT episodes though, somewhat cheesy at times even but I still enjoyed it. One thing I don’t like is that they keep masculinizing many of the nicer feminine characters. Why can’t we have nice sweet Meera Reed? Why does she have to be so aggressive and confrontational? Even Ygrittes personality in the books was so much nicer and feminine than this Ygritte we see in the show.

  321. Richard
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:31 am | Permalink

    Best comment on here….

    WompWomp:
    Soulgraven,

    Amen. I do wish people let things sink in rather than immediately reporting their critical kneejerks which appear to have broken up their viewing experience for all the pain this scene or that character or that line caused them. It would seem some people have forgotten how to watch TV, as strange as that sounds. There’s more active criticism than immersion evident in the most vocal takeaways. It’s hard for me to consider this a “slow episode.” That sounds like the diagnosis of an action junkie, which is off-base regarding this particular program. I find this and other episodes this season to be RICH episodes. What other show can so confidently transport us to places that don’t exist the way this show has? Where else can we play fly-on-the-wall to so many magnetic personalities entrenched in that aforementioned world?

  322. Derek
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:31 am | Permalink

    Sansa’s ship does not actually set sail; I see that last scene with her pondering accepting Littlefinger’s plan since she’s faced with the new, horrid reality of having to marry Tyrion instead of Loras.

    You’ll note the ship she’s looking at, again, belongs to Littlefinger; it’s got his mockingbird on it. She might think that she’s missed it, but of course we know that after Joffrey and Margery’s wedding she’s rowed out to it and departs with Petyr for The Eyrie. This’ll probably happen in season 4, as I doubt they’ll get to that wedding in this season with the RW coming up and hopefully Stannis showing up at the Wall. If the latter doesn’t happen, I think they at least have to get to Ygritte’s death as a result of the skirmish.

    Overall, another quality episode; interesting to watch the Mellisandre-Thoros interaction, as well as Mel-Arya. The Gendry-for-Edric switch, as I see it, works nicely too. Only downsize there is that Gendry might be important later on, since we see him at the Inn of the Crossroads fight with Brienne and don’t know much after that point. But I don’t think the switch will have too much of an impact.

  323. saluk
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:33 am | Permalink

    I don’t get people saying it was the slowest episode. The second episode was much slower – when this one was over I wondered where the time had gone.

  324. Kessell
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:39 am | Permalink

    “If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.”

    “Do I look like a fucking Umber to you?”

    cant decide which line I liked better. Really enjoying Theon’s story, hopeing sometime next season we get a Kyra like situation to cap off his ‘descent into Reek’. Although I’ll take all the Bran I can get, I was a bit disapointed we didn’t really get into that scene deeply enough. Also it really gets on my nerves that the Reeds don’t refer to Bran as ‘my Prince’. I felt it added an intersting aspect to Bran’s development. Cudos on the pink dress. I agree with the person above who said we should be seeing hints of warging from Arya (a wolf dream i guess), from a ‘viewer-only’ standpoint it would be a reminder that Nymeria is still out there aswell as the warging implication. Can’t say I agree the wall climbing was a highlight of the episode. Obviously it needed to be shown, the first scene (where Jon get a bit of ice on his head) and the final shot ontop were great, but the entire bit with Orell cutting the rope (yes, we get it, he doesn’t trust Jon) and the wall partially falling apart (It looked somewhat silly and over the top in my humble opinion) just felt a bit lackluster. Which is a bit of a shame as it was the most ‘actiony’ part of the episode.

    edit: quick question: how does Jojen know what Jon looks like?
    or has tvBran just not learnt how to speak crow yet?

  325. GDG
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:40 am | Permalink

    Wow, lots of debate over this one. Personally, I enjoyed the episode (though I definitely hope that’s the last of the Theon torture we’re gonna have to sit through).

    My main complaint so far with S3 is the same complaint I had with S2: I feel like the direwolves are getting the shaft. I know, CG/budget reasons, etc. But I really feel like the show’s missing something that I loved so much about the books in that regard, especially when it comes to Jon and Ghost. The Jon/Ghost stuff is one of the things I *loved* about book 3, and they don’t seem to be touching on it at all. No signs that Jon’s a warg yet… Not even a hint that Jon’s concerned about Ghost… I just don’t feel that Jon/Ghost relationship at all in the show, and that makes me sad.

    Aside from that, however, I’m loving pretty much everything else. As much as I like the books, there are parts that really drag and wander (especially after book 3), so I’m fully in support of changes being made that will ultimately help cut the fat and make for a cleaner, cooler, stronger, more entertaining show.

  326. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:43 am | Permalink

    Derek,

    Whatever Gendry does in the future in the books can still be done on the show. I don’t get why so many people act like this means it is the end for Gendry in the story. Edric does not die so either will Gendry.

  327. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:44 am | Permalink

    Kels,

    I agree, I think Mels scenes were the highlight of the episode.

  328. Steel_Wind
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:45 am | Permalink

    I am a book fan through and through, but I both understood the need for Esme Bianco’s Roz in Season 1 and, unlike most here, I have enjoyed her in the role since she was first on the show. In fact, I was becoming rather attached to her. Her death seems a brutal paring down of the cast, but … I guess they had no further need of her so, ok.

    The problem is that in doing so in the way that they did it, they really have moved Littlefinger over into full-blown villain now. Book Baelish was affable and may not actually be all that bad a Hand of the King as far as the common folk of the realm are concerned. Indeed, there was much to recommend his commonsense commercial approach. Now? Now, in RPG terms, they have painted a carefully nuanced Chaotic Neutral character into a Neutral Evil corner — and there is no getting him out of there now. THAT was a mistake.

    It seems that D&D are working hard to set up new villains for viewers, seeing as we are about to lose a few in the next… 14 episodes. I get that. I will leave the wisdom of presenting those clear archetypes to them; however, seeing as they gain as many as they lose over that time, it seemed a little too direct and ham-fisted for my liking. It was okay to go there with Ramsay, but it was a real mistake to do so with Baelish, imo. In fact, I would say that is the only significant mistake that D&D have done with the series to date. The rest of these little fundamentalist objections over the past 26 episodes are minor quibbles — but turning Littlefinger into a mustache twirling villain is NOT a small departure from the novels.

    I enjoyed Jon and Ygritte and the Orel rope cutting plot device was interesting. I hope Jon kills him soon.

    Olena and Tywin was excellent. Sam and Gilly was too, in an endearing way. Samwell Tarly is truly one of the few thoroughly decent characters on the show.

    While I expect fundamentalists are going to bellyache, at this rate, I just don’t see Arya getting anywhere near the Freys in time for the wedding. I think they may have decided to cut that aspect of things out of the tale.

    As for Arya and Mel. I’d be surprised if Arya doesn’t add Mel to her list.

    The interesting thing from a non-book reader’s perspective is that they are creating a whole differing set of motivations — and not just for a few people. The question of the real hand behind the PW is being carefully shaped into a whodunnit event, and one of the major plot threads of Season 4.

    No Dany; didn’t miss her at all.

  329. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:45 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    It would seem some people have forgotten how to watch TV, as strange as that sounds.

    It’s not that they’ve forgotten, it’s how the ubiquity of the Internet has affected Internet watching. Before the Internet was everywhere, how did we communicate about TV shows? In conversation the next day at work standing around the water cooler? Reading critical reviews in magazines? All of that takes time….time for a person to absorb, re-hash in their head, re-consider different opinions and synthesize, time for stuff to sink in. Now, there is no time lapse at all. Look at the Twitter post….that’s all happening contemporaneously! It’s how TV is viewed that has changed.

  330. Greed
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:46 am | Permalink

    I was expecting a White Walker to walk on Sam and Gilly as soon as they showed the Dragon Glass blade. I want to see Sam the Slayer!

    Diana Rigg and Charles Dance just nailed that episode.
    I’m glad we saw chemistry between Jon and Ygritte, since we didn’t got a lot of interaction before the Cave scene. And that ending shot was great!
    The soundtrack is just awesome this season.

    And I’m so sad to have known about Ros beforehand due to the leak. How come something like that leaked ?

  331. WildSeed
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:46 am | Permalink

    I really enjoyed this episode, for the interesting revisions and the breathtaking
    landscape at the Wall.

    The awesomeness of the Wall; the emphatic candor between lady Olenna and Tywin;
    The sadistic guise of the boy -who- is -not -named; to discovering that Melisandre
    and Thoros of Myr graduated from the same college. The cinematography was
    awe inspiring. And GoT Ygritte proved she’s not a simple as book Ygritte.
    My favorite funny line was said by Samwell in response to Gilly reacting to the
    size of his wood. By saying the size of the wood doesn’t matter , and later
    responding in turn to Gilly’s suggestions, Samwell mentions ” you sure know your
    wood “. Maybe I have a twisted mind but I laughed til’ my side hurt (:

    Hoping to remain open minded, I found little to dislike,
    but a few scenes like Littlefinger’s ruthlessness and constant rush of romantic
    tories had me gasping for the next scene For a moment, I thought I was watching
    Game of Romance. I needed more than Sam loves Gilly, Robb loves Talisa, Jon
    loves Ygritte, Brienne loves Jaime and cuts up his food with stars in her eyes.
    Luckily the episode focused on more than that , it was just too much. Really,
    the only person I expected starry eyes from was Sansa, and she played it brilliantly.

    Love the pacing thus far. The awkward, hurried pace of last year is not being
    repeated. A major win for what promises still to be an ambitious season of
    new character introductions, and jaw dropping events.The body
    count continues to rise. RIP lord Mormont, Mr Krasnys, Ros, and Podrick’s
    virtue.

  332. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:50 am | Permalink

    Lisa,

    Her issue is that they killed real animals for scenes in the show. Real animals are not killed in the books.

  333. GG
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:50 am | Permalink

    Dogmayor,

    Like who? Almost every death of any recurring character has a purpose. They don’t do it for the sake of it.

  334. The DarkStar
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:53 am | Permalink

    Ser Osis of Liver: Potentially very big spoilers behind the bars if you aren’t a reader.
    Except that Sandor Clegane most likely isn’t dead. Re-read the Quiet Isle chapter in AFFC very carefully and ponder the tall, silent grave digger with a limp, who bends down to scritch Dog, and the very precise words the Elder Brother says to Brienne. We have not seen the last of Sandor. Whether Arya eventually kills him all-dead we can only speculate, but most believe he’s just been temporarily moved off the board and will play a significant role in TWoW/ADoS.

    I’m aware of all that.
    But she still left him to die on the side of the road.
    I love the hound, but I love Arya more and his story should have ended there, while she grows more powerful with each kill, and vengeance consumes her.
    She is the lone wolf.

  335. GG
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:54 am | Permalink

    The Pain Yak,

    Right cos Ros was the only person in the whole of King’s Landing who knew that LF was bringing 2 feather beds. It could have been the guy who stocks his ship as easily as it could have been Ros.

    I may be mistaken, and if I am correct me, but LF never outflanked Varys in the books. I can’t remember if Varys knew about the PW plot or not(and if he didn’t, that can be chocked down to the Godswood) but with the possible exception of PW, Varys was always better informed than LF.

  336. Kessell
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:56 am | Permalink

    Steel_Wind,
    about Orell
    I don’t want Jon to kill Orell, I hoping to see him burn alive from the inside as his eagle gets burned by Mel when stannis goes north or something simmilar. I always felt it was such a great moment in the books with Jon having absolutly no idea whats going on and only really focused on his impending, and avoided, death

  337. Syrio
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:56 am | Permalink

    Walter_Eagle:
    Updated Characters with the Most Lines – Season 3 thus far:

    1. Tyrion – 141
    2. Jaime – 84
    3. Cersei – 75
    4. Arya – 72
    5. Olenna – 70
    6. Thoros – 64
    7. Sansa – 62
    8. Tywin – 60
    9. Robb – 59
    10. Theon – 57

    11. Margaery – 54
    12. Brienne – 53
    13. Jon – 51
    14. Daenerys – 47
    15. Missandei (translating is a double boost) – 46
    16. Varys – 45
    17. Jofrey – 41
    17. Ramsay – 41
    19. Littlefinger – 40
    19. Kraznys – 40

    21. Shae – 39
    22. Bran – 38
    23. Bronn – 37
    24. Davos – 36
    25. Ygritte – 35

    The season needs more Stannis, Davos, Catelyn, Hound, and Bran.

    Also needs more Jon Snow, you wouldn’t know by watching the show that Jon has more chapters than anyone else in ASOS.

  338. The Ghost of Renly B
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:56 am | Permalink

    @Derek…..uh, spoiler much?!?!?!!

  339. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:56 am | Permalink

    Croccifixio,

    how will her vision of seeing a girl riding a horse in ADWD plays out?

    In the book Melisandre appears to simply be wrong….maybe she doesn’t see Arya very clearly in the visions. Or Melisandre was purposely lying in the book but that hasn’t been revealed to us yet but will in GRRM’s next book

    My question is, did they tell Melisandre that that was Arya Stark….I didn’t see or hear any introductions, did any of you? Perhaps all Melisandre knows is that she’s just some girl so when Melisandre does have visions of a girl related to Jon Snow, Melisandre didn’t realize that she’d actually met Arya.

  340. Syrio
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:57 am | Permalink

    JamesL,

    Pretty sure they also showed characters eating meat in previous episodes, so they’ve been killing animals for the show all along.

  341. Selmy
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:58 am | Permalink

    I give it a 8.8/10. I dont’ know, there was something different. I did like the Mel/Arya conversation a lot. Foreshadowing cannot be ignored forever.

  342. The DarkStar
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:00 am | Permalink

    Hawk: Arya doesn’t fuck around for two books…she’s in training…and I, for one, do not want to see her kill the Hound…

    It’s a great story.
    But there is also 1000 other stories in a song of ice and fire and not all of them can be fleshed out.
    Martin lost control and started writing a reality show in this fictional world.
    Arya’s purpose is to kill. Pure vengeance for the death of her father.
    Catelyn the same way.

    Thats what we ultimately are rooting for.

    My favorite characters in the show are all lannisters, but I kinda hope they all die. Just like I love the hound and hope he dies.
    Eddard wouldn’t have killed Micah.
    Eddard 4 life.

  343. WildSeed
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:00 am | Permalink

    WompWomp:
    WildSeed,

    Some people (watchers and book readers alike) seem to expect equal treatment of every storyline in terms of time. I can see where they’re coming from since we all have our favorite segments, but not every bit has a lot going for it at any given time, just like in the books when you’d wait chapter after chapter for that special somebody to take the stage again. I’m sure most of the characters will have their day, if not in this season then the next. I’m loving each episode this year as a lavish experience, not a weekly check-up. I feel book readers above all people should be familiar with this approach. [laughs]

    You’ve got me chuckling now, but I wager the experience of reading or visual
    content encourages some sort of reaction. Whether it’s reacting to an incredible
    unforeseen consequence, disappointment or amusements of the author. It’s all
    there too, and GRRM loves to take readers for a roller coaster ride through the
    chapters, readjusting our thinking for what we believed we knew well or anticipated.
    This was a carefully guarded secret, but I sometimes swear at what I read ,
    and I recall throwing AFFC across the room *>* . I’m well adjusted now, of course (:

    i really limit my expectations with film media, because i want to be pleasantly
    surprised, and appreciate the effort. However, with some foreknowledge of the
    recurring plots, readjusting takes on an interesting balance of calm for what may or
    not happen and appreciation for the finesse involved. I’ve learned much from
    watching this program. and I’ve never invested in watching a program where I’ve
    read the books beforehand.

  344. BelwasBlues
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:03 am | Permalink

    NDC,

    Mushmouth pronunciation aside, it’s clearly “fringed,” because why in the hell would he say French? C’mon now.

  345. Lisa Y.
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:03 am | Permalink

    WompWomp:
    Soulgraven,

    Amen. I do wish people let things sink in rather than immediately reporting their critical kneejerks which appear to have broken up their viewing experience for all the pain this scene or that character or that line caused them. It would seem some people have forgotten how to watch TV, as strange as that sounds. There’s more active criticism than immersion evident in the most vocal takeaways. It’s hard for me to consider this a “slow episode.” That sounds like the diagnosis of an action junkie, which is off-base regarding this particular program. I find this and other episodes this season to be RICH episodes. What other show can so confidently transport us to places that don’t exist the way this show has? Where else can we play fly-on-the-wall to so many magnetic personalities entrenched in that aforementioned world?

    Amen, again! I completely agree. So much of the story happens, and is moved forward, between the lines of dialogue and interplay between characters. For example: the scene between the Queen of Thorns and Lord Tywin. Each time one of them spoke, the scales of power in the kingdom shifted until they finally fell in Tywin’s favor. How could any observant person miss this? Or miss how great it was? Sad some people can’t see the richness of the entire story and just watch it for an occasional fight scene or just to see someone get killed off.

  346. Derek
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:04 am | Permalink

    JamesL,

    Yeah I know this, I completely agree. We know that Davos sends Edric off successfully, I’m just saying it is weird with these character switches since both characters are alive, meaning that they could both still have major roles in George’s plans. Or do something significant, which the show will no doubt adequately adjust somehow.

  347. Derek
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:07 am | Permalink

    The Ghost of Renly B,

    lol well I won’t apologize since this board is supposed to be for viewers who’ve also read ASoS and preferably the entire series, which allows us to speak more openly about how we think HBO will adapt major events in the series. Which makes it fun, obviously.

  348. Jon Sand
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:10 am | Permalink

    When converting a book to a TV-series, I think you need characters like Ros, which main purpose is to help build other characters. You need to show Littlefinger, Varys, Theon and Joffreys personalities through interaction with someone neutral.

    It is probably misunderstood to conclude that she was a hated character. A few loudmouth book purists, have expressed their hate, but really. I doubt D&D have been fooled by that.

    And now she has performed her final characterbuilding service for Joffrey :) She has done great, but her services was no longer needed.

  349. Max
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:11 am | Permalink

    Does anyone else think that we might see another slight departure from the books and perhaps Ramsay will take Theon to Edmure’s wedding?
    The writers might want to give Theon a chance to apologize to Robb while he still can.

  350. DjWeideman
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:16 am | Permalink

    Well, as a gesture of respect, I think a Curtain Call for Esme Bianco is still in order, and let’s try to maintain some decorum for what was, for many, a thankless role. Personally, I was rather sad to see her come to such a brutal end.

    P.S. Was anyone else reminded of Saint Sebastian the Martyr in the way Ros’s death was depicted?

    As for the episode, I suppose the cruel realities of series TV, even for a show like GoT, demand that the odd episode wind up treading water, instead of moving things along as we’d all like. Although, considering all the different plot threads we saw woven together tonight, even though they are setting the stage for more to come, I wouldn’t say nothing happened tonight.

    I’m trying to take the long view and think about the arc of the season, when I sit down at the end and watch the whole thing in one go. I’m hoping I’ll see more of what D & D have in mind. After all, they do have a bit more knowledge than we, of where the tale will end up.

    Loved Olenna/Tywin. Can we please have more of these two going at it? Almost better than sex scenes.

    Poor Sansa, pining after Loras, only to have her dreams crushed again. Sophie Turner has really blossomed this season, making Sansa seem more the trapped songbird rather than the contemptible weakling people saw her as earlier.

    Maisie Williams is just so bloody good. Every scene with Arya and Gendry is heartbreaking(“I can be your family”). That girl just can’t catch a break, ever. But very interesting dialogue between Arya/Melisandre. Hmmmm…

    The Climb was epic. I don’t think The Wall has ever seemed so intimidating. When I read those scenes in the book, I wondered how on earth the show would pull it off. Well done. Ygritte’s first view south of The Wall was pretty impressive and given how emotional that moment might be for her, I don’t think the kiss was too much of a stretch. Maybe the pullback in the last shot could have been a bit more subtle.

    My only complaint tonight was wishing there was more of Bran’s storyline. I know there will be more in his future, so we’ll have to wait a bit longer. Jojen’s dream was really little more than foreshadowing for Jon’s climb. Still it was fun to watch Osha and Meera sparring.

    Hate to be in Tyrion’s shoes when he has to confront Shae about his upcoming nuptials.

  351. BelwasBlues
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:17 am | Permalink

    My goodness, so much passion in these comments.

    I didn’t think this episode was particularly great, me (not bad, but not great; filled necessary space but wasn’t down with some of the choices), but not because of a lack of momentum or “epicness” or anything else, but rather, I felt it was a bit more melodramatic than usual. The voiceover, the heavy foreshadowing, the high drama of the wall… I don’t know. It all just seemed a bit heavy-handed to me. Loved Olenna and Tywin, liked Tyrion overall, enjoyed a lot of the little interactions, in fact (and whoa, the Blackfish schooling Edmure was great), but the whole episode just felt very in-your-face and extreme to me. Just as showLittlefinger has been all LET ME REVEAL MY PLANS!, I felt like this episode cast subtlety to the side.

    Doesn’t mean I didn’t enjoy it, though. I did. And I love reading the comments — interesting how so many people can have different perspectives on the events and handling thereof.

  352. BelwasBlues
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:18 am | Permalink

    Max,

    They’d need to borrow some of Littlefinger’s jetpacks.

  353. Jenny
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:20 am | Permalink

    I almost felt the cheezy end scene was meant as a parody of cheezy scenes… making fun of Jon Snow, who get’s just overwhelmed by it all.

  354. Unbowd UnbentUnHodor
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:20 am | Permalink

    i loved the melisandre and arya scene! am i the only one pissed about ros dying? i started liking her character :( Wall climb definitely best part of the episode and we finally get to see Jon and ygritte chemistry!

  355. superh3ro
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:21 am | Permalink

    (This came out longer than I thought, I hope someone takes the time to read it)

    Last night I read the open discussion, only expecting spoilers from the books. I have read the books, so I have thought it safe to read the discussion. But then people started talking about the leaked screencaps, particularly the one of Ros (whom I’ve always loved, despite the fact that majority seemed to hate her). That scene was supposed to be quite a major surprise even for book readers, and of course I was really angry at the people who leaked that spoiler. Obviously I don’t blame the ones who only discussed it, but it still bums me out.

    Although I (accidentally) came to learn about that scene in advance, I have to say that it was still a big big shock. I stopped reading before I got spoiled on the manner of her death, and never expected it to be so gruesome. I don’t think this show has ever made me feel sick, no matter how disgusting or disturbing some scenes have been in the past. I literally felt like I was going to vomit. Nothing that book-Joffrey did made me hate him so much as this made me hate show-Joff, and I have to say that PW will truly feel superduper satisfying because of it. I just wish that Ros had been there ’til the end… I guess D&D thought of it as a treat for all those Ros haters out there.

    I could say so much about this episode but I’m just so sad and upset for Ros that I can’t think of anything else. I just had to let all these feels out. So many feels. And hate for Joffrey and Littlefinger. I’ve always liked Littlefinger even though he’s a bitch and even betrayed our beloved lord of Winterfell and contributed to his death. Screw Eddard (sorry, I still love him), this cruelty towards Ros is unforgivable in my books and now Littlefinger is officially one of my most hated people in Westeros. Burn in hell, Petyr Baelish.

  356. novichaso
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:22 am | Permalink

    i think sadism makes GOT… no problem on watching “boy” torturing theon!

  357. Mashiara
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:23 am | Permalink

    Ace:
    I actually thought Ros’s death was the most powerful moment of the episode. It was tragic. Here was a character who came from the North to King’s Landing to try and make a living. She was smart and resourceful. But she kept coming up against more powerful people (LF, Cersei, now Joffrey). It was the plight of the common folk…there is only so far such people can rise. There was that scene in season 2 where LF basically warned her that if she was a bad investment, bad things would befall her. Yet she tried to move out of her situation….and just when it seemed like she was going to be able to do that through Varys, she gets squashed by someone more powerful again. And through her tragedy we see that Littlefinger is not a man to be messed with…the kind of man that inspires the fear that Varys has of him acquiring power.

    Yes..it also goes back to what Little Finger said in an earlier conversation about pieces and players in the “Game of Thrones”…Ros is a just piece in the game that the “players” can move about on the chess board. She was to be used at will, and when not needed anymore, easily and quickly disposed of. Ros, Sansa, Lancel, and even Jaime right now are all pieces in the game. But that doesn’t mean they’re not great characters worth the screen time…I liked Ros and I’m sorry to see her go…ah well valar morghulis! RIP Ros

  358. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:26 am | Permalink

    Lisa Y.,

    If the quality of their discussion doesn’t snuff out the Loras-as-heir/where-mah-Willas-at complaints entirely, I don’t know what will. That scene was beat-by-beat perfection, and an exemplary example (haha, ugh) of the liberties taken by the writers paying sweet dividends that contribute to the depth of the show. Such a sublime pay-off, with an efficacy based in the richness of the characters themselves as well as the politics they so effortlessly navigate.

    And gotta admit, QoT giving Tywin props had so much weight given her awesome handling of everyone else in King’s Landing. She couldn’t juggle Tywin out of his stern repute, but they both leave that negotiation looking awesome.

  359. bloodflower
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:27 am | Permalink

    Varamyr Fourskins,
    THANK YOU. I love when people have reading and watching comprehension skills.

    (Please note, that isn’t sarcasm).

  360. Jenny
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:29 am | Permalink

    Well, what’s the difference if the rabbits were killed for the show or for a restaurant?
    And as a European I feel rather weird about people claiming there were no laws against animal abuse over slaughtered rabbits.
    I see your arguments are only valid if you live a completely vegan lifestyle.

    Syrio:
    JamesL,

    Pretty sure they also showed characters eating meat in previous episodes, so they’ve been killing animals for the show all along.

    I know this comment was ironic. I’m referring to the original poster

  361. my watch begins
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:32 am | Permalink

    Unbowd UnbentUnHodor,

    I’m pissed she’s dead……..she’s in the books -A Song of Ice and Fired Book 1: A Game of Thrones paperback edition page 722 lololol but in all seriousness I’m upset she’s gone. And this is a book purist talking. I think it’s because I like Bianco as an actress.

  362. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:33 am | Permalink

    Didn’t read most of the posts. The episode was about what I expected. Having read the synopsis and seen the previews it just didn’t feel like it was going to be an exciting episode. The good news is the synopsis for every remaining episode looks jam-packed with great material and the preview for next week looks amazing. My quick thoughts:

    I really liked the BWOB/Melisandre scene. I was really worried about how it would come off and I am happy that it didn’t turn out bad. I got chills during the Mel/Arya scene(she was definately referencing the Faceless Men), but what I was most interested in was her line that she would “see her again.” Was this foreshadowing to events that haven’t even occurred in the books yet?

    I loved the scenery at the Wall. That may have been the most beautiful shot of the series at the end. I loved seeing South of the Wall from atop it. The actual climb wasn’t exactly technically perfect, but I enjoyed the drama of seeing Jon save Ygritte and himself. I do not think we will get a battle at Castle Black. Mance only sent 20 men. Even if there only 100 or so at Castle Black that is simply to big of a disparity. Didn’t the wildlings outnumber the NW in the book?

    I wish they would have shortened the Tyrion-Cersei scene and I wish they would have had Cersei inform Sansa she was to wed Tyrion. I would have loved to see Sansa’s reaction in the moment. I feel like the Sansa-Loras date would have worked better in last week’s episode.

    The Freys came off well and didn’t seem too obvious in their disdain for Robb. It was good that Lord Frey asked for Harrenhal. Did this happen in the book? Either way I thought that was a reasonable request that may convince viewers that they do have a reason to fight for Robb again. I really liked Edmure in this scene.

    I may be in the minority, but I have enjoyed Littlefinger’s portrayal the last two episodes. I felt like they did a decent job in season 1 with him but really messed up in season 2. Good to see him starting to get the upper hand.

    Speaking of hands, the Jaime/Roose/Brienne dinner was good considering the time allocated to the scene. I was hoping for Roose to tell Brienne that “Lannisters lie” and seeing Jaime threaten to stab him in the eye with a dull knife. We better see Roose seeing Jaime off next episode. My biggest fear coming into the season was that they would somehow leave out “Jaime Lannister sends his regards” Come to think of it, Roose didn’t mention Robb betraying the Freys or that he was going to leave for a wedding. Now I am starting to worry…Not really, but they have to mention that he is leaving for the wedding, don’t they? GRRM is writing the next episode, so my fears are probably unwarranted.

    I love Iwan as Ramsay, but the Theon scene was too long. I don’t mind the torture porn at all, but I felt the scene could have been cut in half. The horn Ramsay was blowing was a nice call back to the season finale when he was blowing it nonstop.

    Overall it was a solid episode, but it was mostly setup for the sprint to the finish.

    My ratings for this season’s episodes:

    ‘Valar Doeharys’ : 8.5/10
    ‘Dark Wings, Dark Words’: 8.3/10
    ‘Walk Of Punishment’: 8.8/10
    ‘And Now His Watch Is Ended’: 9.5/10
    ‘Kissed By Fire’: 10/10
    ‘The Climb’: 8.0/10

  363. my watch begins
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:34 am | Permalink

    superh3ro,

    For all those ros lovers….lets make it known that she is indeed in the books! -A Song of Ice and Fired Book 1: A Game of Thrones paperback edition page 722

  364. novichaso
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:37 am | Permalink

    One more thing, Littlefinger technically is the responsible for this whole “5 kings war” … and all the pain that comes with it! Of course he’s cruel! … he uses Sansa Stark as he will, he’s responsible for Jon Arryn’s death, as well as Ned’s and Joff’s. It’s Littlefinger who kills Sansa’s aunt, Lysa, right in front of her (let’s not forget that whole Marillion being tortured to confess a crime he DIDN’T commit). Robert Arryn is an orphan now…. thanks to Littlefinger… I think he IS cruel… SO cruel. He has absolutely no compassion, mercy or sympathy for anybody else but himself!

    LITTLEFINGER MUST DIE!! … in the last book hopefully… I want to see more Baelish for now.

    cheers

  365. obsidian
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:39 am | Permalink

    I think the Mel/Arya thing is a different kind of foreshadowing …not foreshadowing what Arya will do but maybe that Mel can be fallible. She sees darkness around Arya. Fine..don’t we all. But then she may just be sensing the eyes Arya wants to shut. We saw her practicing to do just that with the bow in her first appearance this episode ..Joffrey ( blue) ,Cersei ( green ), the Hound ( brown).

  366. Lazlo Woodbine
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:39 am | Permalink

    I found it to be the weakest episode of this series, though still plenty to enjoy.

    Iwan Rheon is fantastic as Ramsay, but I that scene seemed to go on for a long time, without telling us anything new about either character. Compare that to every scene that Arya is in, where you can really feel her character growing, and changing. Arya scenes seem to fly by, while Theon being tortured seems to drag on forever.

    I’m happy to reserve judgement on the major changes from the book til I see where they lead to. It was quite interesting to see Melisandre turn up aming the BWB like that, especially her conversation with Thoros.

    The wall climb was a bit of a letdown for me, with the whole over the top collapse and near death experience. It felt a lot more powerful in the books when the wildings died so remotely. It made the wall seem bigger, and the characters more helpless. Still, Tormund is fantastic! I really like seeing him on screen (forget the actor’s name, sorry).

  367. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:41 am | Permalink

    novichaso,

    I agree. Littlefinger is a total sociopath who had zero qualms about killing many, many people. He is as close to evil as any character outside of Joffrey and Ramsay. The guy is slowly killing ‘Sweet Robin’ for crying out loud!

  368. Clara
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:42 am | Permalink

    Did it occur to anyone else that Sansa’s line about trying on a new dress for Joffrey’s wedding when Tyrion came to tell her is a nod to how it played out in the books? With Sansa being fitted for a dress not knowing it was her wedding dress.

    Also I like LF! I think they have changed him a lot, but I quite enjoy it. Also what about him killing Lyssa Arryn? If that isn’t cruel, though necessary, I don’t know what is.
    I felt the Ros thing is not hugely out of character for book LF!

  369. magnuskn
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:43 am | Permalink

    Well, that speech at the end between Varys and Littlefinger was a good example of Lawful and Chaotic characters discussing their alignments in Pathfinder/Dungeons&Dragons, if there ever was one.

  370. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:44 am | Permalink

    Lazlo Woodbine,

    It was the weakest episode of the season, but I think 2 or 3 of last year’s episodes were weaker, though.

  371. novichaso
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:48 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Agree! That’s the perfect evidence of Littlefinger’s cruelty! Baelish doesn’t give a damn about that boy!

  372. Nick_Scryer
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:48 am | Permalink

    Loved it as always, definitely wasn’t the strongest episode though.

    All the scenes were enjoyable, but were mostly set up for what’s to come. Main gripe: I would have preferred that Cersei tell Sansa of her engagement and to actually see Sansa’s reaction.

  373. Darianna
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:52 am | Permalink

    We’re seeing a side to Kingslayer that we haven’t seen before. I like this. It began with the last episode & continues with this one. I couldn’t help thinking of Mount Everest climbers watching the climb. Gosh, no Sherpas! This episode clearly shows what a psychopath Joffrey is. And since he could possibly be Jaime’s son, it would explain a lot. Incestuous unions many times turn out brain damaged offspring.

    What isn’t clear is why Jaime isn’t married at his age and I remember no talk of his ever being married. Maybe I missed it. And since he’s older than Joffrey, and a direct descendant to Tywin Lannister, why has Joffrey been made King? They know Jaime is alive and Tywin is still breathing. It doesn’t make sense, except for Cersei’s meddling and that Jaime has been kidnapped. But before all of this? Jaime was next in line to be king, wasn’t he?

    Littlefinger and the Eunich’s conversation was a bit confusing. More than a bit. I have no idea what they were on about. A philosophical discussion about power and Sensa’s revolving fate? Everyone’s revolving fate? Watched it twice & still not sure. I know Littlefinger is evil. I’m not sure about the Eunich. Half and half? Actually, Sensa will be safe with Tyrion. She has no idea that no one is at Winterfell except for the evil Theon being tortured. And I still don’t understand why Ayra didn’t have Jofrey killed when she had the chance–except for keeping the character around. But there could have been an attempt to kill him that didn’t work out. Thus, still keeping him & not showing Ayra’s childish judgment.

    As for Jon Snow & his new love: ugh…not that interesting (except for what he can do with his tongue). I like how she keeps mentioning it.

  374. novichaso
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:54 am | Permalink

    I don’t think this episode was weak at all! I think it’s all just building up for the most important episodes (8, 9 & 10). Every episode is relevant. Of course, there can’t be dragons and wolves and battles every single episode!

  375. Lyanna_Targaryen
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:54 am | Permalink

    For everyone (particularly readers) who said it was a slow episode, imagine seeing this through a non reader’s eye for the first time. Sh*t went down! I for one am thrilled every week to see this story come to life; even with the changes and the tweaks, the omissions and the additions (PS RIP Ros).

    Not to mention the fact that “The Lysa Arryn of chairs” line by Varys is meme worthy. The Lysa Arryn of _______. Because she is just the WORST.

    Also, “sword swallower?” Stop it, Olenna, I want to hug you.

    “Well, this is awkward.” Sansa’s eyes were as red as her hair, poor thing.

    I am such a craven, I hate the torture stuff. I know it has it’s purpose, but there’s a big difference between reading it and seeing it. Love the boy’s lines and his psycho/maniacal persona. Alfie Allen is impressing the hell out of me also.

    The Cersei and Tyrion scene was interesting also. It’s almost like they don’t hate each other!

    Was the ending shot a little bit cheesy? Maybe. But I still liked it; it cleansed my palatte a little, especially after seeing Theon’s fingermeat removed.

    Overall, loved it.

  376. A-Gone
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:55 am | Permalink

    Longer episodes, they said.
    57-58 minutes each, they said.
    THEY LIED !!!

    This is really f’ed up…

  377. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:56 am | Permalink

    Darianna,

    Jaime is a member of the kingsguard and can not marry or inherit lands. And no, he would not be in line to the throne. The only reason Joffrey is king is because he is believed to be Robert’s son. Since he is not, Stannis is the rightful heir and king.

  378. Jeff O'Connor
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:58 am | Permalink

    Definitely the show’s best cliffhanger ending to-date.

  379. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:59 am | Permalink

    A-Gone,

    I know. At first it was supposed to be a total of 50 minutes longer than S2, but a few weeks ago I read that it was only going to be around 30 minutes longer in total. Just goes to show how tight their scedule is when they were still editing the episodes so late. This is why they can’t do more than 10 episodes per year.

  380. Lisa
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:01 am | Permalink

    Steel_Wind:
    I am a book fan through and through, {snip}

    The problem is that in doing so in the way that they did it, they really have moved Littlefinger over into full-blown villain now. Book Baelish was affable and may not actually be all that bad a Hand of the King as far as the common folk of the realm are concerned. Indeed, there was much to recommend his commonsense commercial approach. Now? Now, in RPG terms, they have painted a carefully nuanced Chaotic Neutral character into a Neutral Evil corner — and there is no getting him out of there now. THAT was a mistake.
    {snip}
    but turning Littlefinger into a mustache twirling villain is NOT a small departure from the novels.

    I’m not trying to be rude here, but I’m not sure how well you paid attention to Bookfinger. Littlefinger was never Hand of the King. He was Master of Coin. Showfinger is almost exactly like Bookfinger. Believe it or not, Bookfinger is an ultimate villain. He’s cruel and sadistic. He’s very much a mustache twirling villain. He just happens to keep his mustache clean and fresh.

  381. novichaso
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:04 am | Permalink

    Darianna,

    I think somebody needs to watch season 1 again …

  382. Ros Fans Unite!
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:04 am | Permalink

    I’ve only changed my name to annoy the fanboys.

    Ros was not a bad character, she was perfectly fine for her part of the story, while the majority of the book fans were moaning about “where are ma rweeeeds! where are ma rweeeeds” Ros did more to interest me in that side of the story then anything the reeds have ever done.

    And the actress that played her was awesome.

  383. Shock Me Sane
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:07 am | Permalink

    The complainers mostly make me laugh (there are legit complaints and I am not calling you stupid, hear me out here) because after re-watching Season 1, Season 3 is so much better on every technical level that it’s almost horrific to watch Season 1. Especially if you are watching on a 62″ HD TV with the Blu-Ray. There are some scenes that are literally hard to watch because the color matching, editing, and acting are so poor compared to this season.

    Count your lucky stars people. I love Peter Dinklage, but he didn’t deserve that season 1 Emmy (though he did deserve it for s2) and Lena Heady was freaking robbed for not even getting nominated for “Blackwater” in s2 because she was so beyond amazing. Dianna Rigg will no doubt be ignored this season as well for an acting nod, as the academy hates genre shows.

  384. Kessell
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:09 am | Permalink

    A-Gone,

    yup, seems none of the episodes are longer than 55 minutes, unless you count the previously-on and the credits and such. Shame I also recall reading something along the lines of longer episodes. Maybe more reason to buy the season 3 dvds I guess.

  385. Darquemode
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:09 am | Permalink

    Clara,

    I agree with you, having Ros killed is completely in Littlefinger’s character. The difference between TV series LF and book LF is that we did not see his actions as much as his results. It makes Littlefinger appear to be a much more up-front, in your face, mustache twirling villain, but he is basically the same character as in the books IMO.

    I think that is the issue with a lot of people’s perceptions (or misperceptions) of how certain characters are changed in the TV series. We had such limited views of the characters in the books. Some from their own internal monolog (biased), some from sons or daughters or friends (again biased), and others from enemies (of course biased).

    The series really fleshes out many of the characters in more dynamic ways than the books. I’m thoroughly enjoying that aspect of the series.

  386. novichaso
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:10 am | Permalink

    Lisa,

    Agree! Littlefinger is everybody’s villain in the books. Littlefinger owes fealty to nobody but himself. A master at the game of thrones.

  387. Lexyvil
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:11 am | Permalink

    A-Gone,

    Indeed they did… This one was the shortest? I think?

  388. DjWeideman
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:13 am | Permalink

    Jeff O’Connor:
    Definitely the show’s best cliffhanger ending to-date.

    I C wot U did there

  389. novichaso
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:16 am | Permalink

    I’m getting annoyed about hte fact that “boy” won’t reveal himself yet…

  390. Summer Is Coming
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:22 am | Permalink

    I don’t know if anyone noticed but the hay puppet Arya is practicing on has the arrows in the same places that Ros has!

    Good episode! Highlight: BwB-Arya-Mel -> very nice change, beautifully acted, but with possible important repercussions.

    Olenna-Tywin -> Willas and Garlan are def out! Loras is the only son!
    The Climb -> Jon and Ygritte catching up… finally! and I liked the way it was directed, altough many of you said is cheesy! beautiful for me.
    Varys as always is a delight! (LF is not)
    Roose and Jaime and pink dressed Brienne were great too.
    Alfie and Iwan are great. It was hard to watch though. “I win!” Iwan is perfect casting!

    Also the Riverrun scene was good. but Robb and Cat are not having enough scenes for their final season!
    Oh, and Sansa’s pain… heartbreaking.
    Tyrion and Cersei as always when they share a scene: Great!

    I don’t like LF is in the show… I don’t usually complain about acting, but I must say, this portrayal of LF is irking.

    and finnally, Ros! Curtain Call for Esme Bianco. Ros’s death, personally has more sadness impact on me than LC Mormont’s, probably beacuse his death was expected, and hers not.

  391. Croccifixio
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:29 am | Permalink

    usually, deviations from the book really divides people whether they like it or not and with more than a half of the episode not from the books, it is really not surprising there are people who reacts negatively.

    i for one, leading more to “book purist” but with an open mind, didn’t really mind most of the changes but i do have to comment that i don’t like the direction jon’s storyline was going. i know they sacrificed the cool scene with the half-hand for building up jon-ygritte but they did nothing for them this season and mance was really really really underused. my friends were wondering why mance was popular when he was almost forgettable in the series. probably completely forgettable if the actor wasnt hinds.

    ros’s death was fine for me but i hope margaery at least seen joffrey’s ruthlessness. in the show, they are making it that margaery has joffrey in her hands but we all now PW is coming and one of the reason it happened is because joffrey can’t be controlled. so her seeing joffrey’s ruthlessness may push her into that.

  392. superh3ro
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:30 am | Permalink

    Darianna:
    And since he could possibly be Jaime’s son, it would explain a lot. Incestuous unions many times turn out brain damaged offspring.

    Joffrey IS Jaime’s son, that is a fact, not a possibility. It was also stated on the show that half the Targaryens went mad because the Targs wed brothers and sisters.

    What isn’t clear is why Jaime isn’t married at his age and I remember no talk of his ever being married. Maybe I missed it.

    Members of the kingsguard are forbidden to take wives.

    And since he’s older than Joffrey, and a direct descendant to Tywin Lannister, why has Joffrey been made King? They know Jaime is alive and Tywin is still breathing. It doesn’t make sense, except for Cersei’s meddling and that Jaime has been kidnapped. But before all of this? Jaime was next in line to be king, wasn’t he?

    Why on earth would Jaime be in line to be king? Tywin is not related to Robert (the previous king). Tywin’s daughter was queen through marriage and Joffrey is believed to be Robert’s son (which he is in fact not, and most of the realm actually knows it). Not a single Lannister actually has any claim to the throne, yet still they hang on to it.

    It could be that you are only a troll, but I felt the need to correct you regardless. And if you truly didn’t know this stuff, you are welcome;)

  393. armsbendback
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:36 am | Permalink

    I think the thing that reveals more of Littlefingers true character at a faster and more open pace than in the books is that show Littlefinger gets several scenes with Varys and other nonPOV book characters. This, plus the visual element, allows his ruthlessness and motivations to be a little more out in the open. In the first 3 books, we only see him in interaction with POV characters, all of whom it is essential that he maintains a facade around. In the show, while with verbally sparring with Varys and Ros, he gets a chance to put that facade down a bit and reveal more of his true nature, ambitions, and methods/lengths he will go to…

  394. KayOfLaihr
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:38 am | Permalink

    Scotty,

    nope.
    WeirwoodTreeHugger,
    so killing kittens is worse than killing women in your book? Hi Joffrey, nice username you’ve got there.

  395. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:39 am | Permalink

    I thought Littlefingers monologue was pretty cheesy and lame. The dialoge was lame and only made worse by Aidans delivery. There was a surprising amount of cheesiness to this episode especially the ending sequence with the voiceover and then Jon and Ygritte on the Wall. I also don’t think they have explained certain plot arcs very well to nonreaders. A lot of nonreaders don’t really understand what exactly Jon and the Wildlings are doing and why they are climbing the Wall. Another plot is Littlefingers marriage to Lysa Arryn. Do D&D really think the casual viewers remember who she is because it seems like it. Of course they will remember the character but they do not know her by name. They could have used some better exposition to set that whole plotline up back in the council scene in ep 3 and explain to the audience who Lysa Arryn is and that Littlefinger is going to be leaving to marry her.

  396. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:39 am | Permalink

    Ros Fans Unite!:
    I’ve only changed my name to annoy the fanboys.

    Ros was not a bad character, she was perfectly fine for her part of the story, while the majority of the book fans were moaning about “where are ma rweeeeds! where are ma rweeeeds” Ros did more to interest me in that side of the story then anything the reeds have ever done.

    And the actress that played her was awesome.

    +100000000
    I never liked Reeds in the novels and was kinda hoping they’ll get cut from the TV series. No luck …

  397. magnuskn
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:39 am | Permalink

    novichaso:
    I’m getting annoyed about hte fact that “boy” won’t reveal himself yet…

    Well, they need to keep his identity secret until a certain event with that Stark lad, you see…

  398. Clara
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:42 am | Permalink

    Darquemode,

    Yes exactly. I think in the TV series it’s made clearer how ruthless and ambitious he is as it is a less biased view that we are getting.
    I love LF character in both the books and the series. I think he completely in it for himself with no honour or family loyalty.That makes him really interesting to me.

    Though I can’t say I liked the montage, as much as I liked the monologue.

  399. Clara
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:49 am | Permalink

    JamesL,

    I think people will remember Lysa – my “newbie” friend is still talking about the breastfeeding incident!
    I totally agree with the cheesiness. They have used that monologue as an add before and that’s all I could think of. I don’t have a major problem with LF though. It was more the montage that really got me, felt a bit jarring.
    Also the kiss scene at the end was a bit Hollywood for me. I know they want to show the love between Ygritte and Jon before everything turns to chaos, but it did not feel like the usual tone of the show to me at all.

  400. Nagga's Kin
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:50 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming: I may be looking at Littlefinger through rose-colored glasses, since I find his character so fascinating in the book. It’s true he did a lot of bad things in the book as well. It just feels like in the show he really enjoys doing evil things, whereas in the book it’s all just a means to an end. The end being his ass on the Iron Throne. At least that part of his character the show did get right.

    Maybe I’m in a minority of one here, but what I have been getting from the show is that LF wants to overthrow not just the king but the monarchy as such, i.e. the whole feudal system of government. He chafes at the inherent limitations of his birth into the lower ranks of the aristocracy. Moreover, he’s profoundly disgusted with the hypocrisy of the higher-born and monarchists like Varys, the whole ruddy lot of them. Show LF doesn’t want to sit on the iron throne – he wants to destroy it.

    His failing is that he has no constructive alternative secular philosophy. Instead, he craves anarchy because crafty businessmen can make a (financial) killing in such an environment. And if the money’s right, he’s evidently quite happy to sell any “non-performing assets” to the most depraved individuals while he’s climbing the (social) ladder so he can one day cast it off the ramparts.

  401. Darianna
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:54 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Darianna,
    Jaime is a member of the kingsguard and can not marry or inherit lands. And no, he would not be in line to the throne. The only reason Joffrey is king is because he is believed to be Robert’s son. Since he is not, Stannis is the rightful heir and king.

    Thanks, Pimpslap…Pimpslap? Good imagination!
    I didn’t begin watching Season 1 until it was over. So I spent two days watching back to back episodes On Demand. So there was a lot to take in.

    The only thing I remember about Kingslayer was when he was having sex with Cersei & threw the Stark boy out of the window. I knew that Jon Snow was a member of the kingsguard because they keep repeating it. Season 1 is now gone from On Demand so I can’t re-watch it. I only had two days to watch Season 1 before they took it off. It was a weekend. Otherwise I would’ve missed the whole thing.

    I forgot that only a Stanis can be in line to be King. Did Robert leave any male bastards or previous male heirs? If not, then only Ayra & Stansa are Robert’s direct bloodline

  402. purplejilly
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:54 am | Permalink

    sedeyus:
    You know what I hate about Ros’ death? It was clearly a smack from D&D to Ros haters. Sorta of, “There, are you happy now? She died in a brutal way. What’s wrong with you people?!” But let’s be honest here; the character sucked. Her scenes sucked. She should have never been written into the show. Her original purpose was sexposition, then her scenes became all about D&D’s egos and the fact they were pissed no one liked their one original character. Let’s all move on.

    I was a “Ros Hater” (but no hate for Esme the actress herself – not her fault she was a character shoved into a story like that) and I am really, really mad at the way she went. I agreee it seemed like a slap in the face to us Ros Haters. She should at least have gotten a poignant, meaningful, tragic last scene where she got to act again, before she became Joffrey’s target. I would have preffered a little less of the endless pointless Theon torture and have seen a bit of Joffrey at full evil. We need to hate him as much as possible.

    Eh, this episode did not do it for me, I stand by my original Season 1 comment of letting Bryan Cogman write every episode.

  403. A-Gone
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:54 am | Permalink

    Kessell:
    A-Gone,

    more reason to buy the season 3 dvds I guess.

    Bugger that. They lied! I’m downloading 720p from torrents.
    Them liars ain’t getting my money.

  404. superh3ro
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:59 am | Permalink

    Darianna:

    Thanks, Pimpslap…Pimpslap? Good imagination!
    I didn’t begin watching Season 1 until it was over. So I spent two days watching back to back episodes On Demand. So there was a lot to take in.

    The only thing I remember about Kingslayer was when he was having sex with Cersei & threw the Stark boy out of the window. I knew that Jon Snow was a member of the kingsguard because they keep repeating it. Season 1 is now gone from On Demand so I can’t re-watch it. I only had two days to watch Season 1 before they took it off. It was a weekend. Otherwise I would’ve missed the whole thing.

    I forgot that only a Stanis can be in line to be King. Did Robert leave any male bastards or previous male heirs? If not, then only Ayra & Stansa are Robert’s direct bloodline

    Arya and Sansa? Jon in kingsguard? Okay, now I know you truly are a troll.. :D

  405. NousWanderer
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:07 am | Permalink

    I enjoyed the montage and thought it served its purpose well. It ended on a bit of a literal note by cutting to actual climbers (the weak point if you found it too on-the-nose), and the monologue fueling it wasn’t long enough to support a wider range of images/connections (making it brief, albeit stylish), but it worked. The show’s visual sense continues to mature nicely.

    Now what would really please me would be a The Wire-esque season ending montage somewhere in S3E09 or S3E10 – set to music, no VO monologue – that connected the show’s disparate threads in a visually powerful way.

  406. Lord Selwyn
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:10 am | Permalink

    armsbendback:
    I think the thing that reveals more of Littlefingers true character at a faster and more open pace than in the books is that show Littlefinger gets several scenes with Varys and other nonPOV book characters.This, plus the visual element, allows his ruthlessness and motivations to be a little more out in the open.In the first 3 books, we only see him in interaction with POV characters, all of whom it is essential that he maintains a facade around.In the show, while with verbally sparring with Varys and Ros, he gets a chance to put that facade down a bit and reveal more of his true nature, ambitions, and methods/lengths he will go to…

    I enjoy the Varys/LF scenes such as this. And I love it when we see all the different layers and levels of plotting in KL in the one episode. At the highest level are Tywin and Olenna, playing big picture politics and marrying / trading off people and lands and titles. One step down come Varys and LF, each trying to play the game with the Tyrells and Lannisters, but also very much two spymasters playing their own games with their own pawns. Ros’s death needs to be seen in that context, a ‘so you think you’re so clever’ strike by LF against Varys. Then there are Cersei and Tyrion, even Loras to a lesser extent – wanting to be players but not able to match the others, especially Tywin and Olenna. And finally Sansa as the poor little pawn in everyone’s games.

  407. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:13 am | Permalink

    Clara,

    I know they remember who she, I mean how can they forget the breastfeeding lady, I just know that the majority of them do remember her by name. When the characters in the show talk about Lysa Arryn in the show most nonreaders don’t know they are talking about Lady Starks crazy breastfeeding sister.

  408. Stephen Bosco
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:13 am | Permalink

    I hope this does not mean all the wildlings on the wall died except the 4 known characters. That would be too silly! I hope more made it but were just off screen. Also why does Jon not miss snow. It’s like he never had a pet dire wolf.

  409. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:16 am | Permalink

    Darianna,

    Nice to see some opinions on the show from someone who hasn’t read the books on this site, that is rare around here.

  410. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:22 am | Permalink

    JamesL,

    Once again, people complain that the show is dumbed down the way it is. The fans that don’t know who Lysa Arryn is will know her when they see her. The show should not have to pander to the folks who can’t remember.

  411. Stephen Bosco
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:22 am | Permalink

    Oh wait there are some more climbing up in the backgroud. Nice.

  412. Blaat
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:23 am | Permalink

    The only reason I can understand why one wouldn’t like this episode is if one can’t handle the torture. I have to admit the Theon scene was horribly awful…but it needs to be. This is Ramsay Snow we are talking about. There needs to be no doubt about what kind of guy he is. I assume they will wait until the final episode to announce his identity else, with Locke and Ramsay being sadistic assholes and Roose already giving off a creepy vibe, everyone will see the RW coming, if they do not already. I liked the Theon scene because Iwan Rheon plays the bastard just as I imagined, he is perfect for the role.

    I really really enjoyed this episode, maybe even more than the last two ones. Every transition felt natural and Littlefinger’s monologue send shivers down my spine. Maybe he is to openly sadistic, but saying he is not like that in the books is asinine. He’s more subtle that is for sure, but he is cold and calculating and absolutely merciless with regard to his enemies and friends. Anyway, it is not that anyone except Varys knows what happened to Ross and why.

    One last thing: Lame Lothar :D

  413. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:23 am | Permalink

    purplejilly,

    Why would you make a comment that Bryan Cogman should every episode during S1. Were you really that impressed S1E4? I don’t see what was so special about that episode that would make you think he should write every episode. IMO Kissed by Fire was his first truly great episode, though he doesn’t as many chances to write great episodes as D&D do because he has been getting only 1 a year. I agree that he should write more though.

  414. Darianna
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:24 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Sorry, hit something on iPad & threw me out. So my question is if Joffrey dies w/out children, who can become king? Not sure if women were allowed to rule then. Doubt it; otherwise, only Robert’s daughters have the bloodline.

    I came on this site because I’ve become a fan of the show. I haven’t read the book and someone called me a troll–whatever that is. I would expect other fans to understand that those of us that haven’t read the book that this show has a lot of characters & plots that aren’t that easy to take in. If I’m on a “read the book only” blog, let me know & I’ll leave.

    I thank Pimpslap for his courteousness.

    As for the troll commentator, I have nothing to say.

    Thanks again Pimpslap!

  415. Wrath of the Gods
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:24 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I thought Mance sent out 100 men?

  416. superh3ro
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:28 am | Permalink

    Darianna,

    I am sorry if you truly are genuine, and not a troll. But it just seems rather odd that anyone who has payed the slightest bit of attention to the show could think that Arya & Sansa are Robert’s children, or that Jon was in the Kingsguard. Sansa & Arya are Eddard Stark’s children; so they are in line to inherit Winterfell, not the throne. And Jon Snow was/is in the Night’s Watch, and I think it’s rather impossible to confuse NW and KG. But then again, I have the perspective of one who has read the books and seen the first two seasons many times, so it’s kinda hard to understand that many newcomers find the show really complicated…

    And I don’t know if you noticed, but in my first reply to you I also gave you quite detailed answers to your questions, just to be helpful…

  417. Wrath of the Gods
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:29 am | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin,

    That’s an EXCELLENT point. Never really thought about it like that but I agree LF may just want to destroy the throne. Not saying he’d succeed but I’ve always felt in the back of my mind that the series will end with the fall of the fuedal system.

  418. Thomas
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:29 am | Permalink

    Am I the only one who was disappointed they didn’t actually show Tyrion telling Sansa and Shae about the new marriage plans? Would’ve liked to see their reactions.

  419. Uncle B
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    Awesome episode! Everything perfect.

    Littlefinger is great. We all want to be like him.

    Have to watch it again right now.

  420. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:34 am | Permalink

    Darianna,

    Joffrey has a younger brother named Tommen. If he ever dies without producing any children then Tommen would become king.

  421. Max
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:38 am | Permalink

    BelwasBlues:
    Max,

    They’d need to borrow some of Littlefinger’s jetpacks.

    True, but it wasn’t a problem for the writers then.

  422. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:38 am | Permalink

    Wrath of the Gods,

    I’m pretty sure in the show he tells Tormund to take 20 of his best men. There were also 4 rows of 5 climbers on the Wall. In the book there are 200 wildlings that climb the Wall and they outnumber the men at Castle Black, if I recall correctly. I think they will abort the attack on Castle Black and instead climb back over and just have the one battle at the Wall next year.

  423. the mighty hodor
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:40 am | Permalink

    Shock Me Sane,

    A fail attempt at trolling,

  424. Croccifixio
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    just to add to the Bookfinger – Showfinger comparison.

    he did had ser dontos killed in cold blood after retrieving sansa. and to the complaint of him telling his plans, he did tell sansa his participation of the PW. i mean if he didnt flat out say it, i would never even guess it was him. also the signs were there but his admission in front of the mood door was the point i realized he started everything.

    i have to say it again, i am tend to be more inclined to the book purist spectrum but not ALL book purist are closed minded. stop all these generalizations against those who really wanted to see the scenes they hope will be shown on screen.

    what i loved about the varys-showfinger conversation was it showed how i always viewed them. varys (ORDER), Littlefinger (CHAOS).

    this is a slower episode compared to the LAST TWO episodes. we can’t have wtf and awesome moments every episode unless you want to adapt ASOS into one season and i promise you, you will get 2 or 3 awesome scenes in that compacted season.

    let us just try to enjoy the episode. if you don’t, then you don’t.

    but i reiterate my point, the more deviations from the book, the more complaints we will be hearing, especially from the book readers. it is known.

  425. JP Johnson
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:03 am | Permalink

    Jeyne Poole would like to have a word or two with you about Littlefinger’s cruetly. And Jon Arryn, who plucked Littlefinger out of obscurity and gave him everything, only to be betrayed. He’s charming, yes, but he’s cruel. I think the difference is that the show is letting us see behind the curtain as it happens, while in the book you only find out about the worst of it after the fact, or forget the hand he played in making it happen.

  426. my watch begins
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:13 am | Permalink

    Ros Fans Unite!,

    Actually my fellow book purist, it seems Ros is in fact in the books. Allow me to direct your attention to this passage in the first book. Ahem A red-haired whore in a wisp of painted silk pushed open a second-story window. “Is it the boy king that’s died now?” she shouted down, leaning out over the street. “Ah, that’s a boy for you, they never last long.” As she laughed, a naked man slid his arms around her from behind, biting her neck and rubbing the heavy white breasts that hung loose beneath her shift. “Stupid slut,” the fat man shouted up. “The king’s not dead, that’s only summoning bells. One tower tolling. When the king dies, they ring every bell in the city.”
    “Here, quit your biting, or I’ll ring your bells,” the women in the window said to the man behind her, pushing him off with an elbow. “So who is it died, if not the king?”
    -A Song of Ice and Fired Book 1: A Game of Thrones paperback edition page 722 So there, take that book purist…Ros was in the books and even had some dialogue. Personally I wanted to see Ros sit the iron throne at the end…ya know a whore sits the throne…but what I want and what I get are always two different things. RIP Ros! : . (

  427. Matt Chung
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    I really couldn’t care less about 99% of the changes, and thought it was a wonderful episode. Littlefinger’s monologue over some footage of people looking into the distance was unusual for Game of Thrones–I don’t think they’ve ever done anything like that before, since it’s so obsessed with living in the “now”–but hey, I liked it, and it linked in very well with the literal climb, which was cool. Jon and Ygritte kissing over the backdrop was kind of funny, but it did leave things on a (literal) high note. Ros’ death depressed me a little since I actually liked her character but it also debunked a theory that I had for her. Otherwise, I enjoyed this episode a lot. Then again, I enjoy all the episodes, so my opinion doesn’t count for much.

    By the way, does anyone here think that they’re building Shae up to replace Dontos? I know someone here thought that they might have been doing that for Ros but now that I look at it, it works better for Shae. Instead, Littlefinger will kill Shae which could possibly allow Tyrion to come off as more sympathetic. Yeah, I know a lot of you will cry foul at Tyrion not killing Shae, but I feel like Tyrion has become Game of Thrones’ “mascot” and an all-round beloved character whose ideals are very much in line with the audience’s (aside from the whoring). I feel like him killing Shae would be very… upsetting? I guess it would be like watching Luke cross over to the dark side. I suppose that’s what ASOIAF is about but it’s just a theory.

  428. outdoorcats
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:26 am | Permalink

    This is probably the most whining I’ve seen about an episode since season 2. Most of these comments are just making me shake my head, to be honest.

    One thing I thought this episode did the BEST job so far out of all the season 3 episodes was juggling all the storylines. They picked just the right number of storylines to follow (four or five, I think), advancing two or three storylines just with one important scene but a bunch of scenes for the two most important storylines at the moment. Also Alik Shakarov is a hugely reliable director as usual with his trademark gorgeous visuals.

  429. Darianna
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:27 am | Permalink

    superh3ro:
    Darianna,

    I am sorry if you truly are genuine, and not a troll. But it just seems rather odd that anyone who has payed the slightest bit of attention to the show could think that Arya & Sansa are Robert’s children, or that Jon was in the Kingsguard. (Sansa & Arya are Eddard Stark’s children; so they are in line to inherit Winterfell, not the throne. And Jon Snow was/is in the Night’s Watch, and I think it’s rather impossible to confuse NW and KG)

    Excuse me? But WHERE did I say they are Robert’s children? They’re Starks. Sorry I got the Night’s Watch & KG mixed up. They have similar rules about not marrying, etc. Jon Snow is a Stark bastard. Ayra & Sansa are Starks who watched their father die, killed by Joffrey, a Lannister. Ayra cuts her hair & passes as a boy for a while as she runs away.

    How am I doing so far?

    Theon takes over Winterfell, then loses it. He has a sister. Red-headed woman worships her god “The night is dark and full of terrors.” They attack the Lannisters, but the woman isn’t allowed on the ship or in battle. Tyrion Lannister falls in love with a foreign prostitute. Tyrion–the imp–burns the ships that come to attack the Lannisters, while Joffrey cowers behind him & then disappears. As the gates are rammed open, Tyrion tries his best to rally the troops since Joffrey disappears. Tyrion tries his best in his little suit of armor but is hit & sees a giant armored man getting ready to kill him. He’s saved by a young boy, don’t know his name, and passes out with a gash on his face. His lover comes to him & pleads for them to run away. Tyrion says he can’t, he likes the game too much. In the meantime Joffrey & his grandfather take full credit for winning the war. Tyrion & Cersei hate each other. Mother Stark let’s the Kingslayer get away with a very tall blonde woman. He’s her captive which infuriates her son so he keeps his mother captive. KS & woman are captured. Jaime’s hand is cut off.

    A parallel story of K & her dragons has been going on. Tonight’s episode was about Jon climbing the frozen wall after he loses his virginity. Papa Lannister wants Tryion to marry Sansa & C to marry a young gay boy who was to marry Sansa. Littlefinger & the Eunich who was made that way by a sorcerror have a philosophical conversation about power while they admire the ugly throne–as ugly as some people on this site.

    Don’t worry. I’ll leave your oh, so intellectual comments to yourselves. From what I’ve read on here. I’m not missing much.

    Oh, and I apologize profusely for not knowing all of the characters name’s and motives like all of you do. I’ll leave you to your one line comments about how boring this episode was. I’m sure all of you could do so much better. That’s why you’re here, right?

  430. superh3ro
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:46 am | Permalink

    Darianna: Excuse me? But WHERE did I say they are Robert’s children? They’re Starks.

    Direct quote from one of your comments: “I forgot that only a Stanis can be in line to be King. Did Robert leave any male bastards or previous male heirs? If not, then only Ayra & Stansa are Robert’s direct bloodline”
    ^ Direct bloodline means children, and the Starks are not part of it… I tried helping you at first, then it started to sound like you were just trolling, and I already apologized if you indeed only remembered wrong or were lost with all the plotlines. All the stuff on your last message was correct. (and btw Robert indeed has bastards, Gendry for example is quite a major one in the plot apparently)

    Again, I’m sorry if I sounded mean or something like that, but there’s just SO many trolls on the internet that sometimes it’s difficult to know who’s serious and who’s not. Didn’t mean to offend. And with this I hope to conclude this sort-of-argument.

    (come to think of it, maybe you confused King Robert with King in the North, Robb Stark [who does not want to sit on the throne, only the independence of the North], and meant that Arya and Sansa are his bloodline.)

  431. Darianna
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:49 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Thanks Pimp, it’s all I wanted to know. He’s not in the HBO version. Or I missed it. And thanks for being so nice. The rest are mostly assholes that have nothing to say, except call people trolls. It’s so easy for them to hide behind their computers and behave like savages.

    Too bad there’s a real world out there. But I doubt they ever interact with it. It probably scares the shit out of them.

    Have a great day, Pimp and bye. It’s good to know that decent people exist in this netherworld.

  432. The Purist
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:49 am | Permalink

    my watch begins: my watch begins

    Actually my fellow book purist, it seems Ros is in fact in the books. Allow me to direct your attention to this passage in the first book. Ahem A red-haired whore in a wisp of painted silk pushed open a second-story window. “Is it the boy king that’s died now?” she shouted down, leaning out over the street. “Ah, that’s a boy for you, they never last long.” As she laughed, a naked man slid his arms around her from behind, biting her neck and rubbing the heavy white breasts that hung loose beneath her shift. “Stupid slut,” the fat man shouted up. “The king’s not dead, that’s only summoning bells. One tower tolling. When the king dies, they ring every bell in the city.”
    “Here, quit your biting, or I’ll ring your bells,” the women in the window said to the man behind her, pushing him off with an elbow. “So who is it died, if not the king?”
    -A Song of Ice and Fired Book 1: A Game of Thrones paperback edition page 722 So there, take that book purist…Ros was in the books and even had some dialogue. Personally I wanted to see Ros sit the iron throne at the end…ya know a whore sits the throne…but what I want and what I get are always two different things. RIP Ros! : . (

    So all red-haired whores are named Ros or there’s just the one red head whore in Westeros? If that is Ros in the book, where’s the part in the book where she was forced to spank another prostitute or being taught how to please a woman, while Littlefinger tells them his plans or some other awful scene she has in the show? Please do tell.

  433. superh3ro
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    I remember reading in an interview that Ros was somewhat based on that red-haired whore, but the whore isn’t Ros… Obviosly readers can think of her as Ros, but officially I’d say she’s just a random whore:D

  434. Mescalinic
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    outdoorcats:
    This is probably the most whining I’ve seen about an episode since season 2. Most of these comments are just making me shake my head, to be honest.

    yeah, those are the Lysa Arryn of comments :D

  435. Nagga's Kin
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    Darianna:

    The rules for who’s in the line of succession appear to be fairly simple:

    a) biological sons born in wedlock, eldest first
    b) biological daughters born in wedlock, eldest first
    c) brothers born in wedlock, eldest first
    – their children (see a,b)
    d) sisters born in wedlock, eldest first
    – their children (see a,b)

    Beyond that, it’s presumably uncles and aunts before cousins, 2nd cousins etc.

    Children born out of wedlock are known as bastards and have no claim to succession unless they are explicitly recognized by their noble parent and in addition, explicitly elevated into their line of succession.

    IFF you subscribe to the notion that Robert was a legitimate king and the official lie that Joffrey is Robert’s biological son, then the next in line are his younger brother Tommen (last seen sometime before the Battle of Blackwater), then his sister Myrcella (betrothed to a Dornish prince to keep that House neutral), then his (official) uncle Stannis and his (official) cousin Shireen.

    Stannis, of course, believes that Joffrey is a bastard child and hence an illegitimate king. Dany doesn’t accept Robert’s rebellion as legitimate and Robb just wants to secede from the realm. Renly recognized that he had no legal claim to the throne, but he believed he would be a good king and intended to take the throne by force, which would be as legitimate as the way his older brother Robert obtained it.

  436. Turri
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,
    There’s probably an ending singifying the case (priests of R’hllor).

  437. sunspear
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:23 am | Permalink

    A pretty slow episode, but I don’t understand half of the complaints on here. The Wall climb visuals put every other show on television to shame. I think people are missing the main reason Ros was killed: Now that Littlefinger has left King’s Landing, they don’t need anymore scenes in the brothel, so her character isn’t any use.

    JamesL,

    There is nothing more annoying than a book reader pretending to have a clue what nonbook readers remember or care about on the show.

  438. Thomas
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    Remember when people said that Shae was just teasing Tyrion, that she wasn’t actually jealous in that annoying scene in episode 3? Yet here she didn’t trust him to be alone with Sansa, and that was before he told the wedding plans.

    Yup, terrible actress.

  439. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    Anyone else not like the way they are writing Meera Reed? Why can’t she just be the nice sweet Mera Reed from the books? They tend to masculinize a lot of the female characters in the show. Even Ygritte is far more feminine and nicer in the books than the Ygritte we see on the show which is why it is strange when they give her lines from the book like when she says wants to stay in this cave forever with Jon Snow and never leave because it seems so out of character with the Ygritte we have seen on the show. I really don’t like Ygritte in the show, I know people think she is annoying in the books but book Ygritte is far more likable imo. I normally don’t mind when alter some characterizations but these 2 bother me.

  440. Lexyvil
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    It was a good episode as always, not the best though. The next episode should be a very good one since GRRM wrote it.

  441. mariamb18
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin: Maybe I’m in a minority of one here, but what I have been getting from the show is that LF wants to overthrow not just the king but the monarchy as such, i.e. the whole feudal system of government. He chafes at the inherent limitations of his birth into the lower ranks of the aristocracy. Moreover, he’s profoundly disgusted with the hypocrisy of the higher-born and monarchists like Varys, the whole ruddy lot of them. Show LF doesn’t want to sit on the iron throne – he wants to destroy it.

    I agree. I’ve always believed that Littlefinger considers himself to be a chessmaster. He is constantly moving the playing pieces around. He observes, he reacts and he adjusts when necessary. This is truly a game to him and he believes that he can win.

    I agree with Winter that LF’s motives are more transparent in the show. Perhaps its because of the POV structure of the books. Many of the characters that give us insight into him are ones that are fooled/betrayed by him. LF was every bit as evil in the books as in the show. As a poster mentioned above, see Jeyne Poole. He is dangerous because everyone underestimates him (except maybe Varys).

    WeirwoodTreeHugger:
    Tip of the hat to Michael McElhatton as well.He is Roose Bolton.Whenever he comes on screen I can’t take my eyes off him.Even with NCW around.

    Yes – McElhatton has slowly (and perfectly) transformed himself into Roose. Can’t wait to see how he plays it going forward.

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    JamesL,

    Once again, people complain that the show is dumbed down the way it is. The fans that don’t know who Lysa Arryn is will know her when they see her. The show should not have to pander to the folks who can’t remember.

    Agree. And if the show explained everything in detail every time a name (or incident) is mentioned we would be buried in exposition. And then everyone would complain about that!

  442. kanjisheik
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    Hawk:
    Matt,

    yes…only the very astute readers picked up on the clues that Arya was there too…


    Wow. This is a shocker for me. What were the clues?

  443. JonSnow
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    Overall, a good episode. After reading the comments here I got the impression that this was a really terrible episode, but I was pleasantly surprised.

    There was a lof of talk, but the dialogue was interesting. It felt like one of those “setup” episodes, where things are being prepped for the next events in the series. But even though it had few really great moments, it had no significant weaknesses, and it kept my attention the whole time, so overall it was a more than a decent episode.

    I’d rate this episode 8 of 10. Looking forward to next episode (GRRM’s episode): Will it turn out to be the best so far this season?

  444. Coltaine777
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    I thought this ep was pretty good..not nearly as bad as some are saying imo…

  445. Mo
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    AlleraSarella:
    I and my entire family have permanently checked out.Not watching anymore.I’m done, the rabbit scene did it.Before I could believe that the dead animals were fiberglass or digital, now I know that they killed those rabbits the morning of for that moronic scene between Meera and Osha.Now all I see are actors.All I think of now is the animal cruelty poster child for HBO that was Luck, except for the fact I think GoT gets away with it because they are filming in Ireland and Croatia where laws regarding animal cruelty are less stringent.I feel like now I wonder did they really dismember horses for the Fist of the First Men scene?I rather hope the show goes the way of Luck…All I can think is if they had just put some effort into rewriting the episode, those rabbits never would have died, at least they wouldn’t have died for a show I once had a profound respect for.To watch and KNOW that what was once a living, breathing animal is being skinned removes you from the fantasy and destroys the ability of the show to take you into the story.Now everyone is just an actor.They permanently jumped the proverbial shark and I sincerely hope that every single animal rights group I can think of lands on this, because they effectively eliminated Luck and hopefully now GoT will suffer the same fate.Funny thing, Peter Dinklage supports Farm Santuary which takes abused and neglected rabbits that were going to be used for meat.Oh the irony.

    I just had rabbit for dinner a couple of days ago , it was very good tastes like quail.

  446. mariamb18
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    JamesL,

    We’ve hardly seen Meera Reed. I wouldn’t give up on Ellie Kendrick’s portrayal. I am happy with the Reeds so far. So far, they are coming across as more “adult” and self-assured then they seemed in the books.

    As far as Ygritte, I found her very annoying in the books. Perhaps it was the constant repetition of the “You know nothing” line.

    I adore her in the show and think that Rose Leslie is wonderful in the role.

  447. Phil
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:56 am | Permalink

    The way the Jon & Ygritte stuff played out this ep. made me realize that the cave scene should have come AFTER this!! Jon holding on for her during the climb, them looking out over the Wall together, then the kiss. It just seemed SO MUCH MORE NATURAL AND COMPELLING for their romance to have started like this rather than just forcing in the cave scene last ep (given that they had already postponed it from how it was in the book). It seemed so perfectly backwards i’m tempted to think they actually swapped the order in post production… no seriously, watch the ending scene again but pretend that’s the first time they kiss/have a romantic connection and you’ll see what I mean

  448. voiceareason
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    Pyrrhus,

    Why? He could just be one of his many faces. I guess Syrio was right, there is only one god: Death

  449. I'm Unsullied
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    About Theon/Reek – I’m glad they did not let him just disappear for 2+ seasons then reappear as Reek sometime after. After how well Theon’s story went last year and how great a job AA did in acting it they just could not do this. But my question is this – how are they going to keep Theon’s story going through next season? Not a whole lot more happens to him aside from different forms of torture until the timeline that the most recent two books cover. Are they going to create a mini-Theon storyline to keep interest in him until then? I can’t see them just settling for a string of torture scenes for the next season +.

  450. Ashley England
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    The Mel/Arya conversation had to be some foreshadowing of Arya becoming a faceless man the music gave it away, it was the same theme played when Jaqen H’ghar departed.

  451. Rhys
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    I’m not joking when I say that I’d like to see a curtain call for Esme Bianco.

    I know she wasn’t well-liked among my fellow bookreaders but I thought she was a good character and Esme played her expertly.

  452. The Winter Rose
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    Bloodraven and I cheered for Ros’s death. The one and only time we’ll ever cheer for Joffrey’s actions, I’m sure. Nothing aganist the actress, she’s lovely. But my god, I am so glad that Ros is dead and gone from the series. 5 out of 5 stars for that alone! HURRAH!

    I am really concerned about what they are going to do with Theon here. He doesn’t get free for a looooooog time which means that we are going to get 3-4 seasons of having to endure all of Theon’s scenes consisting of torture porn. Not something I am not looking forward to and I doubt most audiences are going to be happy about either. There’s only so much of torture you can watch before you go “Okay, we get it. Enough is enough now”. So I really wonder what they’ll do.

    Loved the interaction/rivalry between Meera and Osha. The deviantion from the book with the Brotherhood and Mel showing up was a big surprise and I thought it was a nice change. I am curious to see where that is going.

    Overall great episode! Very pleased.

  453. Loki
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    Just rewatched it with more attention to detail. Didn’t like the typical weiss&beniof tasteless writing like Arya saying tits and balls, all the dick discussion beyond the wall, another one of famous Tyrions fucks. THough, i guess, it’s a reasonable replacement for actual tits and balls. Oh, and Olenna/Tywin discussion was horrible, too.
    Otherwise, still the best episode in the season. Cant wait for the ep 9.

    when the episodes will start to be 57-58 minutes, like promised, instead of 50-52, again?

  454. Bruce Tyrell
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    Mixed episode. Loved the climb, the Thoros-Melisandre interplay, Tywin-Olenna scene and Tyrion’s “awkward” moment with Shae and Sansa. Definitely agree about overplaying the sadism, though the acting by the “Boy Who Must Not be Named” is terrific.

  455. ebevan91
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    Loki:
    Just rewatched it with more attention to detail. Didn’t like the typical weiss&beniof tasteless writing like Arya saying tits and balls, all the dick discussion beyond the wall, another one of famous Tyrions fucks. THough,i guess, it’s a reasonable replacement for actual tits and balls. Oh, and Olenna/Tywin discussion was horrible, too.
    Otherwise, still the best episode in the season. Cant wait for the ep 9.

    when the episodes will start to be 57-58 minutes, like promised, instead of 50-52, again?

    It’s hard to get an episode of about 57-58 minutes when they show the “previouslys”, then the opening credits, ending credits, then the preview for the next episode, and finally the “inside the episode”.

  456. Nayrael
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    Littlefinger killed Ross because he didn’t want to risk leaving behind someone who might endanger him. Doubt he’d have killed her had he not left, but there is not much else you can do but eliminate her.
    The way she dies is to discourage Varys a bit who, unlike LF, has a bigger consciousness.

    All in all, I think the scene was perfect representation of who he is and a good contrast to more conservative Varys. LF caused War of the Five Kings knowing full well how much suffering and destruction would cause and gave his best to throw fuel wherever possible… and later plans to start another. He was always a ruthless man and ruthless people will seem evil.

  457. Kroy
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    I must disagree, they did a great job with the Boy and the Littlefinger scene.
    The part I did not like was Jaime’s. I imagined, Bolton was even more cunning, I was waiting for something more dramatic there…

  458. Tereeza777
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    Loved this episode. Climb up the Wall – awesome. That “stable boy” is beyond sadistic and scary – who IS that guy? That does it – definitely going to purchase the Rosetta Stone Foreign Language software series for learning High Valyrian – Thoros and Mel sounded unbelievably great parlaying in Valyrian!
    Poor Ros – her scenes in House Littlefinger seemed a little too long at times, but her scenes with Tyrion and Theon in season 1 were the best. My favorite was the “turnip cart” scene – when Ros showed Theon her “v” one last time – for me, it kind of marked the end of sweet, small-town Winterfell and the beginning of big and brutal King’s Landing.

    Just one question: from where did Brienne get her peach-colored party dress and her L’Oreal #9 “Coral Surprise” lipstick? Harrenhal? Roose Bolton? the Frey boys?

  459. sunspear
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    kanjisheik: Wow. This is a shocker for me. What were the clues?

    There aren’t any. It’s a fan theory that states that Varys’s little birds are actually facelessmen in training, even though that makes no sense whatsoever. Killing Kevan went against everything in the Facelessman code.

  460. serum
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    Roose and Ramsay are the fucking best!!!! I thoroughly enjoyed that episode! Seeing Brienne in womens attire was hilarious! Wish I heard Tyrions explanation. The view of the south was awesome!

  461. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    I wish David and Dan would write the episodes separately so we would know who is the weaker link. Sometimes there is some really great dialogue in their episodes and sometimes there is crap that seems like it was written by a 15 year old like the Jon and Ygritte scene before they climbed the Wall and all their scene together last season. “it’s you and me that matters to me and you” has now stolen the title away from “my king is husband and my husband is my king” for worst line ever in the show. I have a feeling the weak link is D.B. Weiss. David Benioff is a successful hollywood screenwriter and author and D.B. Weiss is just his friend so he gets to write GoT with him.

  462. Hawk
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    kanjisheik,

    think cats…

  463. kanjisheik
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    sunspear: There aren’t any. It’s a fan theory that states that Varys’s little birds are actually facelessmen in training, even though that makes no sense whatsoever. Killing Kevan went against everything in the Facelessman code.

    Ok, thanks! Cos I was at my wits’ end trying to make some sense out of that crackpot theory.

  464. kanjisheik
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    Hawk:
    kanjisheik,

    think cats…


    So Arya’s ability transcends continents? Unlikely..

  465. JDP13
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    Was it actually Joffery that tried to have Tyrion killed at the Battle of Blackwater in the books? For some reason I though it actually was Cersei.

  466. Dragon has 3 Heads
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    I loved the brief interaction between Arya and Melissandra! I defiantly saw it as a premonition of what was to come for Arya when she goes to Braavos and joins the House of Black and White. “I see many color eyes…blue, green, brown….eyes that will never see again.” It could be Arya ‘changing faces’ as an apprentice of the Faceless Men. Will they ever meet again? I hope so!

    NewJeffCT,

  467. Petearys
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    Not surprising Ros died, the character was used to embody all the KL prostitutes from the books and their perspectives, so with Littlefinger’s impending trip and who is involved there, she essentially wasn’t needed anymore.

    Any book readers can confirm that Tormund didn’t make the climb up the wall? Don’t remember him being with the group that did – and what does that say for his fate, after a ADwD I think he needs to stick around?

    If Gendry is now Edric Storm, I guess it’s spoiled that his involvement in the BwB from the books isn’t essential to further plot? Edric as well?

    Liked the episode a lot – Tyrion and Cersei scenes are great watching their interaction with each other.

  468. Magnar of Thenn
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    I completely agree and was thinking the same thing, would beric really have allowe them to just take gendry like that? i feel pretty strongly that book beric, and thoros for that matter, would never allow that to happen, especially someone who wanted to join the brotherhood, thats just not true to his character imo. I mean he has the honor to give someone like the hound a fair trial, then actually let him go, but yet he wont stop an innocent boy from being sold off, just don’t sound like the beric i know from the books, but hey i guess thats why im suppose to differentiate between the show version of a character and the book version
    Isabelle,

  469. dizzy
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    This was my second favorite episode of the season. Dropping a book spoiler (it seems), Jon and Ygritte were awesome, I actually felt sorry for Ros, and Tyrion’s scene was great with Shea being in the room. Also I was tense during the Sam and Gilly part. Kept expecting Others to start jumping out of the trees.

  470. Kasie Strickland
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    NewJeffCT,

    I thought so too. Remember when he was showing Margaery how the crossbow worked? He shot that boar through the eye. I don’t think he needed that many arrows- he decided to use that many because he’s a sadistic fuck.

  471. Bardard
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    I’d forgotten about the montage accompanying Cersei’s story to Tommen. So I was incorrect, this is not the first time the show used it. Perhaps I’d forgotten it because, thinking back to that episode, it didn’t feel out of place to me. By focusing the storytelling on a particularly confined event and location, the entire Blackwater episode was already a departure from the show’s usual storytelling. Too, that episode felt more feature-film like throughout; it was a consistent departure from the show’s normal visual language. While The Climb’s montage and closing shots atop the wall certainly had a feature-film sensibility to them, for me the rest of the episode did not. (Perhaps with the exception of the episode’s literal climbing.)

    My discomfort with the montage aside, I didn’t think it was a bad episode. Just one whose final bites left a strange aftertaste, much like a White Harbor meat pie.

  472. Adam
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Maybe I am too easy on this show but I loved this episode as well. Nothing I would change. Littlefinger and Joffrey are definitely more sadistic in the show but that is fine. The chemistry between Jon and Ygritte finally showed up. The actors this show finds are incredible. One complaint about the over arc is that I wish they wouldnt have the RW in episode 9, my wife who is only on book 2 and my non book reader friends all expect something big in episode 9 based off the last two seasons. So i am afraid they will see it coming. I wish they would put the RW in episode 8 or the finale. But I trust in the show runners and hope they don’t make it obvious.

  473. No Brother of mine
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    Actually the bit with the Brotherhood selling Gendry off was the bit that sucked Ransoming Arya back to her Family was one thing selling Gendry to the Red Priestess as a potential human sacrafice (and Thoros would have known) is quite another. The Brotherhood was always a flawed organisation in the books, but it was because it was it tended to shoot first and ask questions latter it never ever betrayed its own. This is no brotherhood unless of course you want to be really biblical it which case Gendry should have a rainbow cloak and change his name to Joseph the tragedy is that Arya actually was the closest thing he ever had to family she would never have sold him to anybody.

    The Brotherhood in the TV Show Sucks Bring on Lady Stonehear

  474. Baihu1983
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    In regards to the didn’t like of little finger from the article.

    I don’t see much difference in the 2 versions only this time we are seeing more of how nasty he can actually be.

  475. Hawk
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    kanjisheik,

    that’s the point…her ability likely does not transcend continents, which means she has changed continents…

  476. Maxwell James
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Now that everyone’s laying on I feel compelled to say: if this is the worst GoT gets this year, it will be one hell of a season. Whatever its flaws, this was a thematically tight episode with some riveting action and deepening of several major relationships.

    elvin: I think Ramsay also gave a “A Dream of Spring” spoiler: “If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention”

    Maybe. I don’t doubt that the ending will be “bittersweet,” as GRRM himself has hinted. But I actually found that line more relevant to the structure of the episode (& the season) itself. It, and Littlefinger’s monologuing, collided with Jon & Ygritte’s final kiss in a very unsettling way.

  477. Turncloak
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Baihu1983,

    Little Fingers monologue was by far the best scene in this episode

  478. Turncloak
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    Adam,

    Episode 9 is the big episode. What else would u put there?

  479. Aegon Librarian
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    being a red priest i thought the resurrection of dondarrion was sloppy at best ;)

    superkick:
    BEing an ice climber…I thought the ice climbing scene was medicore at best.But thats just me being picky about realism.

  480. barak
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    AlleraSarella,

    AlleraSarella:
    I and my entire family have permanently checked out.Not watching anymore.I’m done, the rabbit scene did it.Before I could believe that the dead animals were fiberglass or digital, now I know that they killed those rabbits the morning of for that moronic scene between Meera and Osha.Now all I see are actors.All I think of now is the animal cruelty poster child for HBO that was Luck, except for the fact I think GoT gets away with it because they are filming in Ireland and Croatia where laws regarding animal cruelty are less stringent.I feel like now I wonder did they really dismember horses for the Fist of the First Men scene?I rather hope the show goes the way of Luck…All I can think is if they had just put some effort into rewriting the episode, those rabbits never would have died, at least they wouldn’t have died for a show I once had a profound respect for.To watch and KNOW that what was once a living, breathing animal is being skinned removes you from the fantasy and destroys the ability of the show to take you into the story.Now everyone is just an actor.They permanently jumped the proverbial shark and I sincerely hope that every single animal rights group I can think of lands on this, because they effectively eliminated Luck and hopefully now GoT will suffer the same fate.Funny thing, Peter Dinklage supports Farm Santuary which takes abused and neglected rabbits that were going to be used for meat.Oh the irony.

    Uh… I’m against animal cruelty as much as the next person, but are you even aware that in some places rabbit is actually food? You know, like chicken and pigs? I could pop down to the butcher, buy some fresh bunnies and cook them if I wanted to. Hell, people are breeding them for this reason. All the producers had to do was going to a butcher’s shop or someone who breeds rabbits for food, buy some carcasses that were going to be skinned and sold as meat, and film with those.

  481. ZQ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    I really liked the episode. It seems as a brilliant transition to the remaining episodes of the season.
    I think the casting of these characters is spot on. The Frey sons looked just like I imagined they would…. they were just so, Frey!

    I really detest LF, book version and TV version!
    I’m so excited about the remained episodes. I especially can’t wait to see my non-book reading friends’ reactions to the RW. They all think Robb is a brilliant strategist now.

  482. No Brother of mine
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    I can’t believe I get to type this

    You know something Jon Snow

    Your right thats what Roz looked like Saint Sebastian the Christian Martyr whose pictures are loved by bdsm types and pain freaks everywhere a sort of agony and ecstasy thing, A combination of pain beauty and innocence, because in this even though Roz was a whore and a spy she was an innocent victim.

    Will Varys get revenge? We know that he is capable of waiting a long time for it both in the books and in the show and Littlefinger has made sure that Varys is more than a rival playmaker.
    JonSnow,

  483. James
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    I LOVED this episode. I thought the flow was perfect. I liked it much more than I did Episode 5. I would say one of my favourite of the series.

    And I know I know, littlefinger and sansa are different, but I’ve stopped comparing to the books and just enjoy these characters for who they are on the television series.

  484. Red Hound
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    I’m a bit surprised at the general tone of the comments. I can sense a lot of tension in the air. I’ll discuss what I disagree with some other posters or what is controversial.

    * I don’t agree with WIC’s comment about LF, as he’s one of the cruelest characters in the entire saga. He may not be flaying men or shooting bolts at women, but he starts a war that claims the lives of thousands, is poisoning a little sickly boy, trains a little girl in the arts of loving to be sent to a sadistic individual, tortures an innocent bard and well, “Cat.”
    He is more transparent in the show because more is being shown. In a world filled with grey characters, he’s one of the blackest ones, even more than Ramsay, but I have my reasons to say this.

    * Rosgate. I didn’t dislike the character (and the actress did fine), as she served a multi-purpose, to be there and there and fill in the voids that may have appeared when writing, like when they needed a character to do X or Y. I saw the leaked pictures and I had a negative reaction (some sort of sadness) at seeing her, hanging down, dead. It felt very real, so it served its purpose, to shock us and remind us that Joff, even if he seems a bit nicer when in company of Margaery, is still a nasty boy. And that LF is a nasty man. And that Varys doesn’t know everything.

    * Boy torturing Theon is sadistic indeed, but I think it’s important so we can understand how Theon becomes Reek. I don’t think it’d make much sense in the show, as we discover most of it through inner dialogue. Plus, we need to set Ramsay as a monster.

    Now, I have a question about Tywin dialogue. Did Tywin do something in his youth that was mentioned in the books and I missed or forgot? QoT’s comments were way too accurate to be a random thing…

  485. ANiceChianti
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    I never got on board with all the Ros hatred (though it seems to have died down a bit of late, anyway). I will miss her, and I certainly don’t think anyone could argue that she deserved what she got.

    I definitely disagree with the idea that Littlefinger is too over-the-top on the show. This incident with Ros accomplished a number of things for the viewer in one (albeit horrendous) act. 1) It renewed our awareness of the Joffrey sadism factor, as people have mentioned. 2) It brought us back to the very thinly veiled threat LF made to Ros in Season 2, when he told the story of the girl that was always “sad.” 3) It sent a strong message to Varys that “I’m more ruthless than you” (although I do believe that LF is blissfully unaware of the sorcerer in the box). If any point can be argued that LF took personal pleasure in this act, then it is merely the fact that he one-upped Varys. 4) LF not only got rid of a mole that was making him vulnerable, but managed to make, what I’m guessing is a sizable profit off of it. Even if he did not charge the king (as implied by calling him “friend”), the suck-up factor alone is more than worth the loss of one of his girls… especially one that he cannot trust. LF took this potentially dangerous situation, and spun it around to work out positively for him on all levels. This level of ruthlessness is important to hearken back to (like Joffers’ cruelty), and is setting up things to come in the future (or past). I wouldn’t want to be one of Littlefinger’s “friends.” I also do not think it contradicts the LF of the books. Recall that he is merely a peripheral character as see through the eyes of the POV characters. We see him a lot more in the show, involved with characters like Varys who have more of an idea of what he’s up to. We are only aware in the books of the reprehensible acts that the POVs know about… imagine how many others have come and gone unnoticed, or unconfirmed, through years of his machinations.

  486. Hawk
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    sunspear,

    actually, there are a bunch of clues, going back to the first book, setting it up…curious to know what you think the Faceless Man code is…do you really think in ASOIAF that an organization such as the Faceless Men, that trains assassins, would only do so to serve the interests of others? Certainly, as an organization, they have their own agenda, which has yet to be revealed in the story…

  487. Our Blades are Sharp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    Unlike all those who complain, Theon’s struggles with…..”Boy” is probably one of my favorite storylines outside of Jaime and Brienne’s story. I enjoyed the episode. Bring on next week!

  488. bearcatmark
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    I don’t post often but I have taken issue with a few things and want to post my take:

    1. I absolutely loved the “Chaos is a ladder” monologue from Littlefinger and the way it was shot. To me it was spectacular and the best thing done in another very strong episode. I loved the cuts to Sansa and Joffrey/Ros. I also thought the way it finished on top of the wall after “the climb” was great. “The climb is all there is.”

    2. I thought the Ros killing was brilliantly played on so many levels. It was exactly what Littlefinger threatened here with if she ever became a bad investment. It got rid of one of Varys’ little birds and he was able to tell Varys not to mess with him. And lastly, the one not mentioned and the one that I think will have the most future relevance: It could be a perfect way to move the Tyrell’s towards their participation in the PW. If the Tyrell’s thought Marg could permanently control Joffrey, maybe they would not do this. But the brutal murder of Ros by crossbow, might be what pushes the Tyrell’s over the edge. In addition it will help Littlefinger create the chaos necessary for him to get Sansa out of Kings Landing. I don’t see Littlefinger as a mustache twirling villain. I think his moves are just as cold and calculated as they are in the books…full of self interest. I just think the show lets us see him from our eyes and not the eyes of the characters he is messing with.

    3. I think the Theon scenes have been very well done. I think there will be a point where we don’t need to see what is happening to him and we may have reached it. We know the guy is torturing for tortures sake. We know the mental game that has been played with Theon. I hope they don’t go back to the torture well too often at this point, but I like how they have played it so far.

  489. Ed
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    You just noticed this? Welcome to the interwebs! LoL

    Soulgraven:

    A trend ive noticed lately, more so this season than any other (due to increased popularity and traffic), is overblown hyperbole; “Worst episode ever!”, “Best Episode ever!”

  490. Evil erik
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    Anyone notice that loras said green and gold brocade with FRENCH sleeves? Whats french ser loras? Its not a region in westeros i know that for certain.

  491. Lina
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    This episode was slower and not as good as the last two weeks, but I still liked it a lot overall. There were a few things I didn’t care for, and some new stuff I thought was great.

    Like many of you, I’m not a fan of this Littlefinger. I don’t know if it’s the writing or Aidan, but he’s far too sinister and forthcoming. The interesting and deadly aspect of Littlefinger’s character in the book was that he held back just enough to let people consider trusting him. No one in show King’s Landing should even consider speaking to this man, let alone engaging in any sort of business.

    Poor Ros. I was a hater, and I’m glad she’s gone so we can spend less time in the brothel (hopefully) and more time with characters I actually care about. But still, that scene was messed up. I do think that contextually it served two purposes though. It reinforced the fact that in this Game of Thrones, in this war between kings, the commonfolk are always dealt the worst card with no chance of recompense. It also showed a fundamental difference between Littlefinger and Varys (and one I think exists in the books as well, though buried under more layers). Littlefinger seems to get off on the fact that Ros met a gruesome death. Varys is horrified. I think all in all, Varys is capable of sympathy and guilt, while Littlefinger is not. Also, I just want to take another moment to note how Conleth Hill is one of the best actors on the show. No other character so matches my ideas from the books as his Varys.

    I loved all the bits between Mel and the Brotherhood, except how Gendry got taken. I thought Beric and Thoros would protect him, but I guess even the Brotherhood has lost its ideals. I think this scene gave us our first glimpse at the Melisandre we know from ADWD – the one who believes she is doing god’s work – instead of just a seductress messing around with Stannis. Loved the Valyrian, loved the reference to Thoros’ mission, loved his dismissal of it. And loved the scene with Arya. “We will meet again.” I immediately thought this was a spoiler for the upcoming novels. Will Arya go to the Wall? Will she be contracted to kill Mel? So many questions, such a long wait to find out. :( Oh and as a note, Anguy is fantastic.

    I’m hoping for a scene between Gendry and Shireen. That could be really sweet. Perhaps she’ll take a liking to Gendry and then set Davos free to rescue him. I’m still betting the jarred fetuses take the place of the leeches.

    Queen of Thorns v. Tywin was fantastic. I love how self-deprecating and bold she is. I thought Cersei was going to name Loras to the Kingsguard to try to thwart her father, but I suppose even she isn’t that daring. The scene between Cersei and Tyrion was endearing in a way. They’re only united when bitching about their father.

    Poor poor Sansa. I can’t believe how many people hate on her. Yes she makes “bad” choices, by the standards of an adult with a realistic expectation of the world. But I’m sure that 99% of teenage girls would act similarly in her position. Arya is the exception, but I don’t think people seem to realize that.

    The Reeds are epic. Love them both. I like that they’re introducing the physical strains of Jojen’s visions, and that they’re simultaneously showing Meera as embodying both stereotypical masculine and feminine qualities. She’s a hunter and a tomboy, but she’s also very maternal. She and Osha are similar in a lot of ways, so it’s not surprising they were arguing. I very much got the sense that Osha fears being replaced!

    Finally, the Wall. I loved all of that. I felt much more chemistry and romance between Jon and Ygritte on that ledge or on top of the Wall then I did when they were in the cave. The ending was truly breathtaking. The CGI looked absolutely beautiful, the music was bittersweet and sweeping, and the acting was quiet and not overdone. Rose Leslie gave a great moment when her eyes just filled with tears. All of it felt very epic to me, more like something from a LOTR film than a TV show.

    My biggest problem with this episode? They put Yunkai on the map and then didn’t show it. Bring back Dany!

  492. Rickon Greyjoy
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    Interesting. I usually agree with WiC but the parts he didn’t like this week were the ones I did. I liked the Littlefinger chaos/ladder voiceover with the Ros and Sansa scenes. Also feel it’s necessary to show these Theon scenes as non-book readers haven’t really been able to grasp how sadistic “boy” is due to his story from ACoK being omitted from the 2nd season. Yes the torture was graphic and I half turned away at the flaying part but it would be hard to depict what was happening to Theon without it.. it would otherwise look like he was just cutting his finger.
    I liked the actual climbing of the wall but not so much the romantic scene at the top. I was expecting Ygritte to be overwhelmed by the beauty south of the wall then express regret that they had opened all the graves north of the wall looking for the horn of winter and therefore releasing all the weights into the realm.
    I don’t think the Arya/Mel dialogue gave away spoilers for future books. I took it to mean that the eyes Mel saw behind Arya’s were the eyes of people she would kill when she is becoming a faceless (wo)man and that they would be shut forever. So a bit of a spoiler if you haven’t read AFFC / ADWD but not sure how many conclusions non-readers will draw from it. They could take it to mean Arya’s eyes will close forever and be scared for her well-being hehe.
    Overall a good episode. I liked it better than the first two of the season, but less than 3,4 and 5.

  493. Carlos Gonçalves
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    LordDavos12,

    I think is the eyes of the people she wants to kill

  494. Gaius Baltar
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    Probably weakest episode of season, like episode 2 it suffered lack of Dany who have once again strongest arch like in season 1. Still enjoyed some parts, especially BwB scene with Arya and Mellisandre or Bran group, Jon/Ygritte and Jamie/Brienne parts were fine too.
    But King landing scenes were boring, they tend to be strongest usually, but not in this episode. Theon arch continue to be weakest storyline, both actors are great, but writing is not.

  495. Rickon Greyjoy
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    As far as Littlefinger being more sinister in the show.. I think that is something he seems to only reveal to Ros (now deceased, RIP) and Varys, whom he seems to have an understanding with and mutual grudging respect for. Otherwise he seems to keep his more sinister side revealed to the rest of King’s Landing and maintains the facade of the witty charmer pretty well.

  496. zambi76
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    Evil erik:
    Anyone notice that loras said green and gold brocade with FRENCH sleeves? Whats french ser loras? Its not a region in westeros i know that for certain.

    He said FRINGE sleeves.

  497. Michael274
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    Thomas,

    Are you stupid or something ? What’s that got anything to do with her acting ?

  498. Sunspear
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    JDP13:
    Was it actually Joffery that tried to have Tyrion killed at the Battle of Blackwater in the books?For some reason I though it actually was Cersei.

    Tyrion always believed it was, but in Cersei’s point of view chapters, she never thinks about it. So a lot of people thought it was someone else. The more popular choice was Littlefinger, but Joffrey works too.

    Hawk,

    What clues? We learn in the books that Varys’s birds all have their tongues cut out so that they can’t be questioned. And the Facelessman code is that you only kill targets you have been paid to kill. Kevan’s death goes against that. There is nothing to suggest Arya killed Kevan.

  499. TrappingsOfPower
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    What a great episode. I watched it with some non book readers and listening to their take on it is pretty interesing. They have NO idea what is coming. The only issue is that they really are totally confused about the Theon’s scenes to tyhe point of getting a little angry. I kind of understand their frustration a little. Something about them are a little wierd, but then again, Ramsay is more than a little wierd.

  500. Lina
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    Loras definitely, 100%, could-not-be-more-obvious said “fringed” and not “French.”

    First, there is no logical reason whatsoever for “French lace” to be mentioned when “Myrish lace” is such a big thing in-story.

    Second, doesn’t Cogman check all the scripts for accuracy and consistency? I thought he was the one who made the big compendium of info and went over D&D’s writing to make sure stuff stayed true to the books.

  501. bearcatmark
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    Rickon Greyjoy: This is exactly right. We see Littlefinger as more open, because of the people we get to see him talk to. His interactions with Ned Stark were never that open, nor his actions with Sansa. It would be stupid for Littlefinger to pretend in front of Varys.

    This is exactly right. We see Littlefinger as more open, because of the people we get to see him talk to. His interactions with Ned Stark were never that open, nor his actions with Sansa. It would be stupid for Littlefinger to pretend in front of Varys.

  502. Clob
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming: WompWomp, well said. I think they did use the monologue/montage technique once before, at the end of Blackwater when Cersei is telling the fable to Tommen, they showed shots of the battle over her narration. I liked it then and I liked it tonight.

    Didn’t see if anyone else mentioned it… They also sort of used it in “Fire and Blood” (s1 finale) as Mormont spoke about Jon and the Watch heading down under and into the wild. That was a fantastic season end for that storyline so if they were trying to duplicate that in some manner I can understand.

  503. Lina
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    Sunspear,

    I might not be remembering clearly, but isn’t there a cat around? ;)

  504. Michael274
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    JamesL,

    I’m sure you could do a better job at writing the show .

  505. Nic
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    sedeyus:
    You know what I hate about Ros’ death? It was clearly a smack from D&D to Ros haters. Sorta of, “There, are you happy now? She died in a brutal way. What’s wrong with you people?!” But let’s be honest here; the character sucked. Her scenes sucked. She should have never been written into the show. Her original purpose was sexposition, then her scenes became all about D&D’s egos and the fact they were pissed no one liked their one original character. Let’s all move on.

    I think you’re severely overestimating the extent to which this is about you.

  506. zaprowsdower
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    I just realized that it’s sort of weird that Winterfell still in the intro.

  507. Mirri Maz
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    Shock Me Sane:
    en getting nominated for “Blackwater” in s2 because she was so beyond amazing. Dianna Rigg will no doubt be ignored this season as well for an acting nod, as the academy hates genre shows.

    I think Diana Rigg could get an Emmy for Guest Actress in a Drama series, since she’s credit as a guest star , which is way easier than supporting actress.

    Props to David and Dan for shocking a book reader, that Ros scene was very haunting and disturbing, I didn’t see it coming and when it was happening I was like no no no.

  508. persephone88
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    Loved Olenna and Tywin – those two are just masterful game players, and the juxtaposition between Olenna’s ribald humor (“a swordswallower through and through!”) and Twyin’s rigidity is just delightful to watch. Kudos to whomever wrote that scene – it was terrific!

    I was expecting an Other to interrupt Sam and Gilly (or maybe Coldhands), so that scene kind of went nowhere for me.

    Interesting that they’ve connected Jojen’s green dreams to a sort of epilepsy. I was hoping we’d see or hear something more of the dream than just Jon being across the wall.

    On the other hand, the scene with Loras and Sansa was draggy. I hate to say it, but I truly do not like the way they are playing Loras, AT ALL. He is not at all the handsomest nor most courtly nor the deepful faithful Loras of the books – he’s callow and peevish and downright gawky at times. I don’t even buy that Sansa would be smitten with him.

    I wish they’d shown Tyrion telling her about the wedding. That would have been an awesome scene with Shae right there.

    Liked the wall climbing scene – I thought that added some great tension. I thought Ygritte might die right there! Kind of liked her seeing the other side at the end, though it was a little Hollywood.

    Robb is getting short shrift though. I hope he gets a lot more time at the Twins. And although the limp was a nice touch, I wish they’d've verbally identified Lame Lothar – I pictured him as a lot more crafty and unctious, and Black Walder being very big, solemn and dour – more of a striking contrast between the two. The costuming was good on them, but the two guys seemed more like nameless extras than as actual Freys in that scene. And yes, we need more Grey Wind, for sure.

    I thought the Mel and Arya scene was a nice nod to her faceless man connection but not sure how I feel about Beric selling Gendry.

    Like Varys but Littlefinger is way too cartoon villain for me. They have sucked any modicum of subtlety out of that character.

    Farewell Ros. Did not at all expect that scene, and it seemed to come out of nowhere, like “Okay people, you’ve complained enough so we’ve killed her.” Although it does heighten the tension of what will happen to Margaery / Sansa post wedding.

    Liked Jaime and Brienne, though I don’t think he’d've embarrassed himself by doing all that fruitless cutting in front of Bolton. Liked him taking Brienne’s hand though. Looking very much forward to next week’s episode…

  509. Davy
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    I liked this episode. I am really interested into Littlefinger now, never cared much about him in the books. But I think Littlefinger is one of the most interesting characters in the series in what I have seen today.

    I really wonder where this is heading though, the next time I am reading the books I should definatly focus more on Littlefinger.

  510. boyo71
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    Mo: I just had rabbit for dinner a couple of days ago , it was very good tastes like quail.

    The original poster should stay away from classics like Apocalypse Now where they kill an ox on camera. Yikes.

  511. Auroraschildren
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    Going off the whole Sadist bit, I have to agree through it wasn’t the Little Finger or Theon scenes. For me, it was the end scene with Joffery. I mean, in the books he is a little prick. But he was never this twisted. He was cruel and unkind but I don’t recall anything that suggested he liked to kill and beat whores. For me, they are over playing Joffery’s cruelty. He was just a boy with Daddy issues and trying to become better than his father. I feel like they have made Joffery a bit unrealistic with all this murder and such. Just me though, overall I loved the episode.

  512. Hawk
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    Sunspear,

    all of Varys’ little birds are not Faceless Men…the Faceless Man code you refer to is what is communicated to Arya by her teachers/masters, in order to make her subservient to their will…consider again this organization of assassins, and the implausibility that the organization exists only to kill targets they have been paid to kill…as an organization, they have an agenda of their own, which is yet to be revealed…

    Varys has connections to the Faceless Men going back to AGOT…specifically, he moonlighted as Rugen, the jailer in the Black Cells, which is where Jaqen came from…also, it is so quintessential GRRM, who loves the doubles and the parallels, to have one Stark daughter (Sansa) serving under Littlefinger, and the other (Arya) serve under Varys…this also brings Arya to the point where she gets to figure out (she has received sensory training from the FM) that Varys is one of the people she overhead beneath the Red Keep in AGOT…what is she going to do when she figures that out? Break with the FM, which has been set up b/c she refuses to let go of her former life entirely and become No One..and finally, the cat, spying on Tommen, the one cat in the Red Keep that Arya could never catch, she has finally “caught”…

    the clues are there, and it’s been set up since book one…

  513. JDP13
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    Sunspear,

    OK, so I didn’t miss it (or forget it). I guess it hasn’t been revealed yet. Actually Cersei in the show would make less sense on the show then in the books. They actually seem to get along better on the show then I remember from the books.

  514. I'm Unsullied
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    Opportunity Missed – “The Climb” Who could not get that Miley Cyrus song out of their heads every time the name of this episode came up? So D&D casts Miley in a cameo role as one of the unlucky wildings that are in the wrong place when Ygritte causes a wall-va-lanche. We see her fall all the way down, splat, then have a 10-ton slab of Wall fall on top of her just in case.

  515. Sunlight
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    I just watched the episode. When did they talk about ros’s death? How could I miss something as big as that

  516. Magnar of Thenn
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Huh? wait, are you actually serious? Lol that might be one of the most ridiculouscomments I’ve read on this site, and THAT’S saying something, i actually thought you were kidding, still kind of hoping you were, cause thats insane, you will never find a bigger animal lover than me, but to say you’ll stop watching the series because you saw them skinning a dead rabbit? thats just… wow idk what to say to that. And no they didn’t use actual horse carcasses for the fist of the first men scene, come on seriously, get real

    AlleraSarella:
    I and my entire family have permanently checked out.Not watching anymore.I’m done, the rabbit scene did it.Before I could believe that the dead animals were fiberglass or digital, now I know that they killed those rabbits the morning of for that moronic scene between Meera and Osha.Now all I see are actors.All I think of now is the animal cruelty poster child for HBO that was Luck, except for the fact I think GoT gets away with it because they are filming in Ireland and Croatia where laws regarding animal cruelty are less stringent.I feel like now I wonder did they really dismember horses for the Fist of the First Men scene?I rather hope the show goes the way of Luck…All I can think is if they had just put some effort into rewriting the episode, those rabbits never would have died, at least they wouldn’t have died for a show I once had a profound respect for.To watch and KNOW that what was once a living, breathing animal is being skinned removes you from the fantasy and destroys the ability of the show to take you into the story.Now everyone is just an actor.They permanently jumped the proverbial shark and I sincerely hope that every single animal rights group I can think of lands on this, because they effectively eliminated Luck and hopefully now GoT will suffer the same fate.Funny thing, Peter Dinklage supports Farm Santuary which takes abused and neglected rabbits that were going to be used for meat.Oh the irony.

  517. Magnar of Thenn
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    Spoilers man c’mon

    Derek:
    Sansa’s ship does not actually set sail; I see that last scene with her pondering accepting Littlefinger’s plan since she’s faced with the new, horrid reality of having to marry Tyrion instead of Loras.

    You’ll note the ship she’s looking at, again, belongs to Littlefinger; it’s got his mockingbird on it. She might think that she’s missed it, but of course we know that after Joffrey and Margery’s wedding she’s rowed out to it and departs with Petyr for The Eyrie. This’ll probably happen in season 4, as I doubt they’ll get to that wedding in this season with the RW coming up and hopefully Stannis showing up at the Wall. If the latter doesn’t happen, I think they at least have to get to Ygritte’s death as a result of the skirmish.

    Overall, another quality episode; interesting to watch the Mellisandre-Thoros interaction, as well as Mel-Arya. The Gendry-for-Edric switch, as I see it, works nicely too. Only downsize there is that Gendry might be important later on, since we see him at the Inn of the Crossroads fight with Brienne and don’t know much after that point. But I don’t think the switch will have too much of an impact.

  518. kingslayer
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    JamesL,

    Theons had about 16-17 minutes this entire season mostly thanks to the most recent episode, most of his scenes are very short this year. Robbs had almost double the screentime this year, and it doesnt matter that he was absent for 2 books this is an adaptation, his scenes are just fine, probably the weakest story arc but thats saying something given how great this season has been

    you sound like a purist

  519. Bryon Blofstein
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    I though about the Mel/Arya convesation about “We will meet again” If you have read A Dance with Dragons you will under stand what I am about to say. Mel doesn’t always get it right with that she sees in the Fire. She may have seen one that looks like Arya but is not Arya.

  520. darrylzero
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    JamesL,

    Here here. I don’t think you’d find out what you want to find out, though. I think the good dialogue and the bad dialogue comes mostly from the same place, and they clearly read each other’s scripts. But it is striking the way the writing is mostly quite good, sometimes great, and every once in a while insanely bad. I don’t get it either.

  521. Curtis
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    charles,

    He mentioned in an interview last week with Game of Owns that he will be doing 2 episodes next week. However, even two doesn’t feel like enough.

  522. A Storm of S-Words
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    I love the way every scene has its defenders in this comment thread! Proves that no scene is actually horrible, just out of keeping with some people’s expectations.

    Good (not astonishingly great) episode. It’s impossible for there to be a bad episode. So does anyone know how Melisandre found the Brotherhood so easily when all the Mountain’s torturers couldn’t locate them?

    I always liked Ros as the collective whore. You can’t show every whore from the books without confusing new viewers. And it’s just my opinion, but I find TV’s Little Finger to be more sadistic than he is in the books, whereas in the books he was merely amoral in service to his ambitions.

    I felt the wall climb could’ve been more original. How many movies have the lower climbers slip while the upper climbers argue whether to cut them loose, only to have the lower climbers save themselves 1 second before the rope is severed? I mean, why even rope them together if the upper people can’t handle the weight of lower people? I guess lots of viewers must like this kind of scene or you wouldn’t see it over and over. But I would’ve liked a more creative approach.

    Favorite scene: Arya and Mel. Arya didn’t just walk up to Mel, she grabbed her. Then Mel’s spooky commentary was priceless.

  523. Deekan
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Maxwell James,

    LOL! Bittersweet! Any ending (even if it had fluffy bunnies and cute lil kittens) would be bittersweet with all the s#!& that has happened. XD

  524. fuelpagan
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    *sigh*

    You are all way over thinking this Ros/Littlefinger/Joffrey situation.
    Let me connect the dots for you.

    What is Littlefingers goal? To get the Tyrell’s to kill Joffrey and create more chaos.
    Right now the Tyrell’s think Margaery can manipulate Joffrey and Littlefinger needs to prove this idea wrong. He offers up Ros to Joffrey under the disguise of revenge for he disloyalty. Leaks this horrible act to the Tyrells to show Joffrey’s true nature and gives everyone a phony motivation for Littlefingers actions in order to hide his true motivation.

    Littlefinger was always going to offer up somebody for Joffrey to kill. The Varys/Ros connection gave him a good excuse for doing so.

    Personally I really enjoyed how deftly this was handled. I say BRAVO!!!

  525. Magnar of Thenn
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    Because she dont know thats arya stark and jons sister, so yeah she has seen, but later SPOILER: Wwhen she has the vision of the girl on the dying horse, she can still beleive thats jons sister, because she never made the connection that she had already met arya but didn’t rralize it, so yeah i think that whole storyline can still be used in the same way.

    I also remember last season jaqen hgar mentions the red god must have his due, even though he is a servent of the many faced god, he might have even said it in the book too, so that’s another instance where the two religions mixed up, not sure what that means though

    shadowassassinbabby:
    seems like the meeting of Mel and Arya makes it likely that the misdirection with Mel’s vision of the girl on the horse coming to the Wall / Mel sending Mance to Winterfell for Jeyne!Arya will be handled differently on the show. how will Mel get the Arya/Alys Karstark thing so wrong in the future if she’s met Arya?i always thought her vision of the girl on the horse, and her claim that it’s Arya, was the last bit of evidence that causes Jon to accede to sending Mance to the Bastard’s wedding.

    (also posted on the open thread)

  526. Steel_Wind
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    Lisa,

    Lisa, I am well aware he was Master of Coin – if you re-read what I said, you will see that my comments were instead aimed at judging what LF aspires to be: Littlefinger aims to be Hand of the King and the power behind the throne. That has been his intention since the beginning of the series.

    And no, he’s not an outright villain in the novels. He has done clearly villainous acts, most especially in connection with the poisoning of Jon Arryn and claiming the dagger to be his in order to provoke the war (which was likely going to come anyway).

    Even with Lysa, he was not planning to kill her. That is something that was brought on by her actions; not LF’s. When it became obvious to LF that Lysa was just too much of a nutbar and that she could easily kill Sansa out of jealousy and quickly turn on LF, it was only then that he did away with her on the spur of the moment; however, it was not his plan to do so. Lysa Arryn essentially killed herself.

    Similarly, he did not want to betray Ned and Catelyn, it was Ned who caused LF to make that choice in favour of the Lannisters by making a series of irrational decisions.

    LF’s role in Joffrey’s death was a more complicated move aimed at destabilizing the realm, getting rid of Tyrion while implicating Sansa and causing her to flee with him. But it wasn’t done for petty reasons or for vengeance. There was no mustache twirled in that, either.

    Even in his dealings with Sansa so far, he has not forced himself on her – though she is within his power and he certainly could so so if that was his wish. When it comes to Sansa, Baelish is vulnerable as the little boy inside wants to be wanted by the girl who looks like the Tully he fell in love with. In the end, Littlefinger is human.

    Throughout the novels, GRRM attempts to provide us with characters that are not paper cutout villains but real people motivated by real emotions and goals. While there are a few exceptions, the characters are neither good nor evil. Littlefinger is carefully written by GRRM to be clever, resourceful, open-minded, and more than any other character in the books, it is Littlefinger who has faith in an individual’s merit and not their noble bloodline. Littlefinger is a democrat, in the 17th century sense of the term. Who would be the best Hand for the common people? Littlefinger, undoubtedly. He’s the one who would see the gold flow, merit rewarded, and commerce and trade prosper.

    In the real world, Littlefinger is the modern industrial player of the Game; LF’s identifying with the common man and appreciation for commerce and “new money” makes him the most like the modern reader.

    So no, he’s not an outright mustache twirling villain despite your contentions to the contrary. What I said was wholly accurate and I stand by it.

  527. Vid
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    I must say I’m kind of shocked the bad responce Littlefinger’s scenes are getting. I kinda belive that he is a bit more evil-ish in the series (and making it wierder for a frail heart like Sansa to trust him), but I found his speech amazing, and didn’t feel disturbed by the Ros scene. I also liked Ros in the series. Well – liked, more of ‘didn’t mind and sometimes enjoyed…’.
    Anywho. I don’t belive it was so bad. Sure, it was cruel, but Joffrey has to be, yes?

  528. Paj
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    According to Wiki “GRRM has said he will likely work Ros into the books at some point as a cameo.”

    I don’t know if D&D pulled a fast one on GRRM, or if GRRM and D&D were in cahoots from the start.

  529. Melisandre
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    It’s been a while since I read ASoS and I need some clarification regarding Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding:

    Were the Tyrells aware of Tywin Lannister’s plans of getting ahead of them and marrying Sansa to Tyrion? Was that discussed and arranged with them previously, or did the Tyrells were caught by surprise on the wedding day, just like Sansa?

    Of course such arrangements would have happened off-page, but I was just wondering if they happened at all.

    I’m asking this because, at first, the Tywin-Olenna scene made no sense in my head – and then I realized this might have been exactly what happened in the book.

    I mean, in summary: how much did the Tywin-Olenna scene deviated from the novel?

    And I’m sorry if this have been discussed here before. More than 500 comments, I still haven’t had time to read through them all.

  530. NewJeffCT
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    Auroraschildren: Going off the whole Sadist bit, I have to agree through it wasn’t the Little Finger or Theon scenes. For me, it was the end scene with Joffery. I mean, in the books he is a little prick. But he was never this twisted. He was cruel and unkind but I don’t recall anything that suggested he liked to kill and beat whores. For me, they are over playing Joffery’s cruelty. He was just a boy with Daddy issues and trying to become better than his father. I feel like they have made Joffery a bit unrealistic with all this murder and such. Just me though, overall I loved the episode.

    Joff was still the guy that made Sansa view her dead father’s head… had the Kingsguard beat her (it wasn’t a one time thing in the books, either, if I recall) and also hired a dwarf comedy team to cruelly humiliate Tyrion in front of all of his wedding guests. Not to mention taking a sword to Tyrion’s initial wedding gift. Sure, he may not have been as outwardly sadistic in the books, but the signs were there that he was heading that way.

  531. Melisandre
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    Oh, and also I’m assuming it was implied that Olenna was being blackmailed into giving up Sansa to the Lannisters so that Loras wouldn’t be named Kingsguard. That’s what I took from the scene.

  532. NewJeffCT
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    Melisandre: It’s been a while since I read ASoS and I need some clarification regarding Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding:Were the Tyrells aware of Tywin Lannister’s plans of getting ahead of them and marrying Sansa to Tyrion? Was that discussed and arranged with them previously, or did the Tyrells were caught by surprise on the wedding day, just like Sansa?Of course such arrangements would have happened off-page, but I was just wondering if they happened at all.I’m asking this because, at first, the Tywin-Olenna scene made no sense in my head – and then I realized this might have been exactly what happened in the book.I mean, in summary: how much did the Tywin-Olenna scene deviated from the novel?And I’m sorry if this have been discussed here before. More than 500 comments, I still haven’t had time to read through them all.

    What happened in the book was that after Margaery told Sansa about her being wed to Willas Tyrell, she then told Ser Dontos about it in the Godswood. Dontos, being a puppet of Littlefinger, told Littlefinger, who then told Lord Tywin. Tywin moved quickly and had Tyrion & Sansa wed… The Tyrells couldn’t say anything since they had intended to announce Sansa-Willas after Margaery was wed. When Margaery saw that Sansa was going to wed Tyrion, she felt sorry for Sansa, but froze her out of the Tyrell social circles.

  533. Steel_Wind
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Kessell:

    I don’t want Jon to kill Orell, I hoping to see him burn alive from the inside as his eagle gets burned by Mel when stannis goes north or something simmilar. I always felt it was such a great moment in the books with Jon having absolutly no idea whats going on and only really focused on his impending, and avoided, death

    The books does not treat it like a great moment. To the contrary, it is a one-line exit; Orell fate is presented as an afterthought, a footnote.

    We clearly have a differing opinion on this; to me, there was nothing “great” about that at all.

  534. Red Hound
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    Steel_Wind,

    I was going to answer that I believe that LF’s ultimate goal is still, Catelyn. As a noble man, and under duress, he may be able to have her still.

    However, how does LF react to the news of Catelyn being killed? I can’t remember at all.
    Non-book readers, please take seriously spoiler tags as we’re constantly spoiling everything under them…

  535. Melisandre
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    NewJeffCT,

    Thanks! :)

    So, basically, the Tyrells not only couldn’t do anything but also didn’t know about it up until the wedding day?

  536. Kalamies
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    Scenes i liked:

    Theon’s wake up
    Tywin and Olenna
    The Climb
    All Melisandre scenes
    Littlefinger and his voiceover. He could narrate the whole series and i’d still love it

  537. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    it’s how the ubiquity of the Internet has affected Internet watching.

    CORRECTION: Meant to say: “affected TV watching”

  538. Jen@House Stark
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    Episode was a huge win, just wish Arya the badass could have saved some lives and just killed that bon-fire loving batshit crazy Melisandre right there, valor magoodness.

  539. Gregory Kelton
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    I agree with WiC about Littlefinger. I’m not a fan of the direction they’ve taken with him in the show, and as much as I loved Mayor Carcetti, I’m not digging Aiden Gilen’s performance of him at all. I think he’s got the look fine, but I just don’t like his… air. I’m not sure if that’s the right word, but it’s the best I can come up with at the moment.

    The rest of the episode was awesome. Another home run for the series.

  540. The Pointy End
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Not sure if anyone has replied to some of the things I read on here, impossible to go through all the comments unfortunately. So first, I would expect that the Mel/Arya scene is not much of a spoiler esp for book readers, as we have already seen her kill someone in season 1, and we know her plan is to become very good at it, so its really more of a non-reader thing. I learned nothing new from that scene. The situation Theon is in does not look good to be going well, so that’s no spoiler either. In fact, having read the books he does manage to make a run for it in the end, so you never know. What is really interesting to find out is where the whole Gendry thing is going, as its a major change from the books. And I don’t really care about Ros.

  541. Shock Me
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    If you can’t have a Hollywood moment on top of a 700 foot high wall, why have a wall at all? It seems cheap only because we have been cheated of the fullness of Jon’s arc with the Halfhand and his lady love from North of the Wall.

  542. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    Yeah, I don’t see the moustache-twirler in him. His deadpan is still there, even at the heights of his monologue. He’s chillingly disaffected, only concerned with his outcome. Great point about the additional “selling point” in his disposal of Ros. Didn’t occur to me at all, but its a convincing point. Marg may be happy to play the sadist’s wife, but I certainly wouldn’t tolerate the match in light of the boy king’s revealed nature.

  543. Clob
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    I realize there was a lot of talking in this episode to downgrade it for the ‘must have action’ people, but I didn’t expect as many to think this was the worst episode of the series. I’m also seeing that towerofthehand user episode rating is currently the lowest yet, just below episode 2.02. I suspect that viewer standards have escalated with recent awesomeness. So much so that your standard ice wall climb isn’t exciting enough. I’m thinking that had this been the second or third episode of the season it may have been enjoyed a little more by those that say they didn’t. /shrug

  544. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ,

    Haha, plenty of us do that too.

  545. Jon Snowstopper
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    The final Jon/Ygritte scene with The Empire Strikes Back music

    Terrific!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IWDNtUZ_5o

  546. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    Max,

    No, because we’re not sure if anyone in Westeros knows who actually has Theon. The Boy killed the first set of guys who were torturing Theon so they can’t tell anyone. I think as much cruelty as we’ve seen Westeros even The Boy’s kind of sadism is beyond the pale and wouldn’t be accepted by the Starks or any other major family. Since Book Readers already know who The Boy is, they know he has larger political ambitions and that wouldn’t be served by showing his evidence of torture in front of the Starks, Tully’s, Freys, etc. Plus Theon hasn’t been broken yet and might still ask for help to escape. Once The Boy has him completely broken it would be different. So there is no way that he would show up with an obviously tortured Theon to such an event, even with jetpacks. You might could argue later in the series that he does go around with Theon openly in his coterie. However, by then Theon is unrecognizable to anyone except those closest to him. Indeed he doesn’t even remember his own real name until much, much later.

  547. Varamyr Fourskins
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    I think that scene between Melisandre & Arya was foreshadowing two events in Arya’s future.

    The first one is the one everyone knows — that Arya will become a Faceless Man and see the world through many different sets of eyes. But the second is related to a theory of mine — that Arya will be killed while she is in her wolf dream, and will then become Nymeria, who is leading a massive pack of wolves in the Trident. That’s what Melisandre means when she says that her eyes will “shut forever”… or whatever it is she said (I don’t recall the exact wording).

    And this is the opposite of Jon Snow, whose death is foreshadowed by his threats to Orell — i.e. “What happens to your eagle when I kill you? Does it flop out of the sky and die? Etc… This will happen to Jon when he is killed by the Night’s Watch. Ghost will flop over and die.

  548. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    Shock Me,

    I find it an impossible proposition to have the show lift each arc beat for beat from the book. Though I thought the bathing cave was a weird place to cement their relationship,
    It was the jumpstart the watching audience needed. At least Ygritte telegraphed her interest leading up to it. If their supposedly whirlwind pairing still bothers anyone,
    I’d advise people to view between-the-lines more. Who’s to say those two haven’t been going at it whenever they can between their proper scenes? It’s a narrative and logistical nightmare to adapt every memorable detail from the books to the screen. Entirely impractical, even, for pacing purposes. If some people had their way, we’d have more episodes a season and more people crying “slow episode.”

  549. Doug
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    So, I don’t like to bash actors, but I have to say something.

    As much grief as D&D get (and most of it deserved), I’m not sure it’s their fault with how poorly Littlefinger is coming off in the TV adaptation. I think it mostly has to do with Aidan Gillen. And I don’t mean he’s a bad actor, certainly he’s not. What I mean is the choice he has made on how to play Littlefinger is what is throwing people off. He has changed his natural voice, to something that resembles somewhat of a cartoon character, he moves like the villain in a cartoon, and it’s not at all far fetched to suggest you can picture him as the evil twirling mustache man in a cartoon.

    I half expect to see him invent railroad tracks just he can tie someone to them for crying out loud.

    I think his way of playing Littlefinger is what makes that character come off so bizarrely.

  550. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    Varamyr Fourskins,

    I like a lot of your inferences, but find this one a bit off the mark. Mel was plainly describing those sets of eyes as potential victims. The connections are easy to make thanks to the colors of each set. Nothing’s for sure, but some people read it as Mel seeing Arya’s particular hatred for people on her shit list.

  551. Alen
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    It was a good episode. Slow. And probably the worst of the season, but still good. It had some amazing scenes. The Wall stuff was great. I also love the change they made with Gendry. Everything with Mel in this episode was really great. Her talk with Arya gave me chills.

    I don’t understand why some of you think Littlefinger is so much different in the books. He is cruel in the books and he is cruel in the show. Yes, in the show he’s more obvious but he has to be for the TV audience.
    I also don’t understand all the hate Ros has been getting. Her character served a purpose for those who haven’t read the books (and that’s the majority of viewers). I’m kinda sad to see her go. I’m sad that Littlefinger bested Varys on this since Varys is my favorite. I really like that they are doing this Littlefinger vs Varys thing. I enjoy their scenes the most.

  552. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    Jenny,
    Nah, not meant to be cheesy, just came across that way. GOT hasn’t delved into sentimentality. It’s been quite the opposite showing us extreme pragmatism and cynicism. That’s why the final scene at the wall didn’t translate so well. It’s as if the director of this episode didn’t know much about the series but we KNOW that’s not true. Sakharov has been working with the show since Season 1. So it has to boil down to the writing.

    The writers, knowing some seriously heavy stuff is about to come down with the RW and Jon betraying Ygritte, may have felt they needed to give us at least one uplifting moment before that all goes down OR it could be a purposeful bit of misdirection. If it had been me I would have had Jon and Ygritte just standing close together staring out elated, exhausted and relieved. The most contact needed was maybe a hug and significant eye contact.

    HOWEVER, one point to make that might make their reaction at the top make more sense is that whenever a person goes through almost dying….the urge to connect with another person is incredibly strong. It’s why soldiers after a battle often will be horny as all get out. Having been in life threatening situations a couple of times in my life, I can honestly say that Jon and Ygritte making out at the top of the Wall after that kind of life and death struggle is realistic enough. But what is shouldn’t have been was romantic. It should have been more one of relief and desperation to reaffirm that they’re still alive.

  553. Rita Jones
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    I think the portray of Little Finger more or less matches up to my impression of him in the book. I’m fairly certain he’s the closest (human) thing to a “Big Bad” Westeros has. He’s not a POV character in the books, but I imagine if he had POV chapters, they would match the show’s general portrayal.

  554. Anne
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    Steel_Wind:
    Lisa,

    Lisa, I am well aware he was Master of Coin – if you re-read what I said, you will see that my comments were instead aimed at judging what LF aspires to be: Littlefinger aims to be Hand of the King and the power behind the throne. That has been his intention since the beginning of the series.

    And no, he’s not an outright villain in the novels. He has done clearly villainous acts, most especially in connection with the poisoning of Jon Arryn and claiming the dagger to be his in order to provoke the war (which was likely going to come anyway).

    Even with Lysa, he was not planning to kill her.That is something that was brought on by her actions; not LF’s. When it became obvious to LF that Lysa was just too much of a nutbar and that she could easily kill Sansa out of jealousy and quickly turn on LF, it was only then that he did away with her on the spur of the moment; however, it was not his plan to do so. Lysa Arryn essentially killed herself.

    Similarly,he did not want to betray Ned and Catelyn, it was Ned who caused LF to make that choice in favour of the Lannisters by making a series of irrational decisions.

    LF’s role in Joffrey’s death was a more complicated move aimed at destabilizing the realm, getting rid of Tyrion while implicating Sansa and causing her to flee with him. But it wasn’t done for petty reasons or for vengeance.There was no mustache twirled in that, either.

    Even in his dealings with Sansa so far, he has not forced himself on her – though she is within his power and he certainly could so so if that was his wish.When it comes to Sansa, Baelish is vulnerable as the little boy inside wants to be wanted by the girl who looks like the Tully he fell in love with. In the end, Littlefinger is human.

    Throughout the novels, GRRM attempts to provide us with characters that are not paper cutout villains but real people motivated by real emotions and goals. While there are a few exceptions, the characters are neither good nor evil. Littlefinger is carefully written by GRRM to be clever, resourceful, open-minded, and more than any other character in the books, it is Littlefinger who has faith in an individual’s merit and not their noble bloodline. Littlefinger is a democrat, in the 17th century sense of the term. Who would be the best Hand for the common people? Littlefinger, undoubtedly. He’s the one who would see the gold flow, merit rewarded, and commerce and trade prosper.

    In the real world, Littlefinger is the modern industrial player of the Game; LF’s identifying with the common man and appreciation for commerce and “new money” makes him the most like the modern reader.

    So no, he’s not an outright mustache twirling villain despite your contentions to the contrary. What I said was wholly accurate and I stand by it.

    I’ll stand by this also. You explained it well.

  555. Alen
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    fuelpagan:
    *sigh*

    You are all way over thinking this Ros/Littlefinger/Joffrey situation.
    Let me connect the dots for you.

    What is Littlefingers goal? To get the Tyrell’s to kill Joffrey and create more chaos.
    Right now the Tyrell’s think Margaery can manipulate Joffrey and Littlefinger needs to prove this idea wrong. He offers up Ros to Joffrey under the disguise of revenge for he disloyalty. Leaks this horrible act to the Tyrells to show Joffrey’s true nature and gives everyone a phony motivation for Littlefingers actions in order to hide his true motivation.

    Littlefinger was always going to offer up somebody for Joffrey to kill. The Varys/Ros connection gave him a good excuse for doing so.

    Personally I really enjoyed how deftly this was handled. I say BRAVO!!!

    I agree with you. That’s the biggest reason why he had her killed and it makes sense.

  556. JP Dayne
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    “Was Thoros’ “mission” ever mentioned in the books? ”
    yes it was.

    I didn’t like jon+ygritte scene at the top of the wall
    I also didn’t like how she proposed that they run away…

    While I don’t care about the gory aspect, I doesn’t bother me in the slightest. I’m rather found they got rid of the whore. Just one more to go, I guess. See you next season, Shae!

  557. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    Varamyr Fourskins,

    “It’s just LF. What’s the big deal?”

    I’ve only just begun reading GOT forums and I was shocked at how many people think that LF isn’t all that bad of a guy. I keep thinking, “Have they not read the books?” IMHO, he’s behind quite a lot of the chaos that has happened in the books and he is one of THE biggest villains in the story if not THE most important. I have a sneaky suspicion that LF will be there until the end and will be a big part of the denouement. Everyone in the books underestimates him so I guess it’s not too big of a stretch that readers will too but I think that’s precisely what GRRM wants.

  558. Magnar of Thenn
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    I’m sorry but did u say Prostestant fear of sex? as a prostestant i have no clue wtf you are talking, maybe you should do a little research on the religion, almost got a little offended there but thought better of it. So why dont we just keep the topic of religion off this board n just stick to GOT talk, for everyone’s sake

    MX:
    B,

    You should not be allowed to have sex, especially not with women. I am serious.

    Now that they killed off the best-looking woman in Westeros, they might as well not bother any more showing us any naked bodies. Just the same old same old Protestant fear of sex as worse than death, beh — I would have expected something more layered from someone named Sakharov.

    The Theon scene was ridiculously extended. There was very little intrigue in the show, making it relatively boring — that’s why so many shockers were built in.

    This one may have been the worst episode yet in my book.

  559. Summer Is Coming
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    I just realised something about the Olenna-Tywin scene:

    They only talk about Loras marrying Cersei, not even a hint about Sansa. When the Tyrells will find out, Olenna will think she was double-sided, and she and Marg will eventually make Loras to go in the KG, so that a half-Lannister child will not inherit Highgarden. Thus Marg becomes the heir, and as I said prior, no half-Lannister child will rule the reach, wich will make Olenna and Marg come up with poisoning Joff in the wedding day, so that he never sleeps with her, and put an heir inside her. Tommen is still incapable to reproduce… so there is time for Marg to weave.

    also there is the olenna-varys scene froma ep 4, in wich QoT doesn’t show any kind of … I don’t know. it’s just that LF and olenna ploted together, and varys is not that stupid and say something like that to her, if he knew just a whisper about it. I think LF will be cut from the poisoning plot…

  560. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    Andy Greenwald posted his recap. As much as like his writing he is becoming tedious with his one complaint. We get it Andy you think this episode or that episode would be great in the middle of a binge watch but that’s not how you view television shows.

    I concur to the point that this episode and others are frustrating to the newbie who watch it every Sunday, though most are addicted/frustrated. In terms of targeting their audience the showrunners believe the show thrives on this addictive factor and ignore the complaints. In the end they are not interested in making coherent hours of television but something made to be consumed in a big serving. The trouble is unlike other shows the adaptation factor underlines the narrative momentum. It’s quite a quandary because in the end you can’t satisfy all parties.

  561. novichaso
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    magnuskn,

    You are absolutely right, that will be more shocking for the viewer.

  562. Gregory Kelton
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    Lana:
    Wow people LOVE to complain… If you don’t like the Theon scenes how about you skip them… go take a bathroom break or something lol. Clearly D&D know what they are doing and they are doing these scenes for a reason. The torture was not even that bad and they are very necessary because Ramsay is a very important character and so is Theon. So I really don’t understand why so many people are complaining… would you rather see more talk about Podrick’s penis? Mmm no didn’t think so

    We don’t know if we like them or not until we’ve watched them. -_-

  563. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    Summer Is Coming,

    The plot’s thickened before Joffrey had a chance to. Brilliant.

  564. Kroy
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    Can’t wait to see Stannis’ reaction when he meets Gendry Rivers or should I say Gendry Storm?

  565. sunspear
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Hawk,

    So you’ve got one made up idea about what the Faceless men are actually doing, and one tangential connection between Varys and Jaqen. Not convincing.

  566. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    The point remains valid, though I agree it can only be stressed so many times before it gets tiresome. Isn’t having six great episodes in circulation for people to go back to as much as they like enough to sate people before the next one?

    The end product will be well worth the wait. It just irks me that HBO is sticking to its yearlong wait between hard copy releases. It’s such a VHS-era approach, but I assume the reasoning there is to extend the value of their subscription package between seasons, though it would seem a lot of people subscribe just during the new season. Maybe the vast majority of new subscribers just drift towards HBO between seasons.

  567. Ned's Head
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    I really don’t see how the Purple Wedding is held back for season 4 at this point. The royal wedding has been the center piece of every KL scene so far and to have the season end without seeing it would be a let down, especially to non-reader viewers. I think they will end Episode 10 with the Purple Wedding, Yellow City, Ygritte’s death and Stoneheart, because I can’t see how they push them all the way to next season. Add in the fact that Gleeson wants to leave acting, it makes even more sense to end Season 3 with the Purple Wedding. I also don’t think Michelle Fairley is going to be kept off screen for very long, and I believe her character changes will be different in the show from the books, for example I think show Stoneheart will be able to speak, will have her throat injuries appear more like show Beric’s, and her revenge killings from later books will be moved up to Season 4.

    I also think they will change Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding. I believe it will be scheduled to happen after the Purple Wedding, but due to Joff’s death, Tyrion’s arrest, and Sansa’s flight from KL, it will never happen.

    Season 4 will be packed with Storm stuff like the introduction of the Martells, Tyrion’s arrest, trial and escape, Jamie’s return to KL, Sansa and Petyr’s journey to the Vale, Lysa’s death, Shea’s betrayal, Mountain vs. Viper, Tywin’s death, Mance’s attack, Stannis at the wall, Thorne and Slynt, Jon’s election, Coldhands and Bran’s group, Dany in Mereen, Selmy/Jorah mission, Jorah’s banishment, Brienne leaving KL in search of Sansa, Bolton being named Warden of the North, fake Arya and Ramsay, Reek, Arya and the Hound, Arya leaving for Braavos, Tommen as King, Kevan Lannister’s return and intro of the rest of the Greyjoys which will be more than enough to fill up most of the season with some Feast and Dance mixed in.

  568. Melisandre
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    I would give a 5 to this episode.

    Good moments:
    - Jaime, Brienne and Lord Bolton
    - Melisandre’s little line to Arya (gave me chills!)
    - Hearing High Valyrian
    - Sam and Gilly (the Slayer is coming!)
    - Final scene (tacky as it was, I enjoyed it)

    Not so much:
    - Sansa and Loras (I hate how the show runners are always drawn to modern gay stereotypes. This hasn’t been the first time)
    - Ygritte admiting she knows Jon hasn’t given up the watch (why?!)
    - Tyrion warning Sansa about the wedding (I’d rather Sansa found out in the wedding day, like in the novels)
    - Littlefinger, once again, being a cartoon villain
    - Theon (excessively long and plain boring. My non-book-reader boyfriend is annoyed by them too, he thinks they’re repetitive)

  569. Magnar of Thenn
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    Actually, you should say Gendry Waters since he was born in Kings Landing ;)

    Kroy:
    Can’t wait to see Stannis’ reaction when he meets Gendry Rivers or should I say Gendry Storm?

  570. El Beto
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    I think this is the weakest episode of the season so far.
    Also this is the first episode I didn’t like and honestly the changes in the story were so big in this one it turned out to suck.

    Pd: (ONLY if you’ve already read A Dance With Dragons)
    The Melissandre thing about knowing Beric being back to life ober and over again I think is a big spoiler on her reviving Jon Snow.

  571. GoT
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    Just a reminder for those who think this season is being boring: this is a DRAMA show, not an ACTION one. The action scenes come eventually, consequences of the drama-plotting.

    Further on, Book 3 is the largest book in terms of plotting, so it really takes a lot of drama before all plots get into full speed.

    The episode 3×06 was quite boring in general, but if you re-watch it, you’ll see that the plots are all thickened now, waiting to explode:

    -Sansa’s told that she’s now betrothed to Tyrion and loses the oportunity to sail away with Littlefinger;
    -Tywin practically will name Loras Tyrell for the Kingsguard, or so it seems;
    -We’re close to Boy’s real identity;
    -The wildlings will now pass to the other side of the Wall, which is their plot in the first half of A Storm of Swords;
    -Sam talking about the dragonglass;
    -Melisandre meeting the Brotherhood;
    -Roose Bolton’s first betrayal, sending Jaime to King’s Landing.
    - And the most important: Edmure’s wedding arrangement.

    Everything is set up now. The pace will get a lot faster now!

  572. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    Steel_Wind,

    Littlefinger aims to be Hand of the King and the power behind the throne.

    Actually I disagree. Littlefinger either aims to sit on the Iron Throne himself or he wants to get as much power and wealth as possible to live in his own castle with Sansa as his wife (his sub for Caitlyn). He as much said it in his scene with Varys. But be the Hand? No

    Littlefinger is a democrat, in the 17th century sense of the term.

    Again, no, not in any way, shape or form. A democrat, regardless of what century you’re talking about is someone who advocates democracy, rule by the people and everyone gets a vote. LF wants to be in charge, whether that is openly as the Hand or King or Lord or whether continuing behind the scenes is up for debate. But it is VERY clear that he doesn’t care if other people get to have a say in how they are governed. No, LF is a pure free market capitalist and an amoral one to boot. He wants to get ahead and he believes that only the smartest and most devious one will survive. He’ll sacrifice, corrupt or use anyone to get ahead.

  573. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    Magnar of Thenn,

    I think he meant Puritan….that old Calvinistic legacy in the U.S. where we need a fainting couch if we show a boob on regular TV. The more you try to control the instinct of sex the more people will crave it. The rest of the world laughs at the U.S. for our bizarre prudery.

  574. Chris
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    Bardard,

    Good observation!
    There have been virtually no flashbacks, montages, dream sequences (except Bran’s which was more a representation of warging) or any other deviations from straightforward narrative.
    I’ve actually thought that events like the Field of Fire or Tyrion’s marriage to Tisha or Brandon and Rickon’s murders or Lyanna’s death or the history of the Unsullied might have been nicely presented as flashbacks… or montages. Peculiar that we finally get something like this at such a quirky time. If the technique had been employed before, it would have fit right in but, as it was, it seemed a heavy handed and awkward way to underscore the climb “theme.”
    Now, if we’re going to see MORE of these alternate forms of visual storytelling, I’d welcome the departure.

  575. Clob
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    I love it when I hear GoT discussion from sources one wouldn’t expect. I’m listening to the podcast of my local sports radio morning show and they’re talking about it. It’s not the first time since some of them watch it. It’s just nice to hear them talk about other interests of mine besides sports. Today they mentioned how they still forget some character names 2 1/2 seasons in (not book readers).
    btw, they liked last night’s episode :)

  576. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    Melisandre,

    Actually, GRRM is the one who originated the use of gay stereotypes. Ahem. RAINBOW GUARD? [laughs]

    Ygritte was suggesting it wasn’t his meeting with Mance that solidified Jon’s new loyalty, but his consummation with her in the cave that cemented a change. Basically, “we all know it was actually my vagina that converted you from crowdom.” :)

    And even then, she stresses loyalty between them, not to their wider factions.

  577. Lizard
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    Maxwell James,

    Didn’t Littlefinger have a bard tortured until he ‘cnfessed’ to killing Lussa Tulley?

  578. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    Ned’s Head,

    change Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding. I believe it will be scheduled to happen after the Purple Wedding, but due to Joff’s death, Tyrion’s arrest, and Sansa’s flight from KL, it will never happen.

    Disagree, I think that their wedding has some important long term implications for Sansa’s character development. Ultimately I think that Tyrion will be one of three dragon riders and when he comes home to Westeros as a hero saving the entire frigging country from The Others, a much more experienced and cynical Sansa will finally realize that the heroic knight she was seeking all along, is actually her estranged husband Tyrion. Remember their wedding night in the book? Tryion says he will never touch her unless she wants him to and she says, ‘what if I never want you to?’ It would be just like GRRM to have Sansa come around to wanting to actually be with Tyrion.

    I usually think ahead in stories and say if I was writing this story, how would I do it? And my answers are almost always right. I am very rarely surprised in books and TV shows.

  579. Big Bad Wolf
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    NoOne:
    Sometimes after reading so many complaints about every minuscule detail I really wish the producers pulled a Legend of The Seeker, a Sy Fy original, a cheesefest so bad that the “book purists” complaints will be screams of terror.

    Thumbs up.

    Not the best of episodes (in fact, it may be the worst in this season so far) but still managed to be mildy good.

    I don’t agree about Winter’s upset for Theon’s scenes. They aren’t too much worse than some of Joffrey’s ones, so I don’t see them that bad. They must be sadist because Ramsay IS a sadist. So far, so good, and Iwan Rheon gives me nightmares XD

    Not a fan of Tyrion telling Sansa about the wedding. They should have stick to the books, that moment came with no warning for her and was very sad and heartbreaking. This time… meh. A failed opportunity.

    I understand they need a replacement for Edric Storm and that should be Gendry, but this? The BWB selling him to Mel after all that “we are family” chatting? Sorry, but this was a blunder. I understand now that Gendry will be killed to get his blood. This is the only way his story can be developed, as I find a return to the BWB too stupid and impossible right now.

    I neither hated nor loved Ros, but I feel a bit relieved with her death because this rules her out as a Jeyne Poole’s replacement, which it seemed to me her story was leading to. I was wrong, happily.

  580. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    Why is it most people on here are saying that the Theon scene was boring or not that bad? I had to look away when he was peeling the flesh off his finger….good God that was gross. Then again, I don’t watch horror movies and can’t understand why anyone would want to see slasher pics anyway.

  581. sunspear
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    Ned’s Head,

    I disagree with this entire post.

  582. Ghost of Harrenhal
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    Overall I did enjoy the episode the change did not really bother me except is anyone feeling the BwB coming across a little bit as religious zealots because we dont get to see them with the common folk, but I understand since we dont have enough time for that.Can anyone confirm to me if GRRM wrote those melisandre scenes with thoros and arya because I know they were moving scenes around a couple of episodes and he had to change the name of his episode due to it.

  583. Eor!
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    LordDavos12:
    I really enjoyed the Littlefinger speech, along with the Thoros/Mel conversation.I have a quick question though; when Mel was talking about Arya looking back with all these other eyes, is she talking of her warging her is it more about the Faceless Men?

    She clearly states that those eyes are the eyes of people Arya will kill. I just took it as a replacement for the Ghost of High Hearth saying Arya was a dark child.

  584. Maxwell James
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    Lizard,

    Sure. But that’s the difference between “ruthless” and “sadistic.” With the first, the torture is a means to an end; in the second it is the end itself.

    Like WiC and others here, I’m not saying book Littlefinger is a good guy; he’s obviously a villain, albeit one with a tragic past. But in the book he was subtler, and his ruthlessness was focused on staying ahead in the game. He wouldn’t engage in torture for the sake of torture, because that’s not efficient.

  585. Darquemode
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    Auroraschildren,

    I think we have to remember that book Joffrey is 12-years old and TV series Joffrey in he middle of his teen years. Pre-teen Joffrey had daddy issues, but D&D progressed Joff’s issues to match the age progression. Serial killers, sadists and the like often may start with small animals and the like, but they often evolve into much darker acts.

    I think TV Joffrey perfectly fits te aged up book Joffrey personally.

  586. Sweet_Sister
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    Next episode being called “The Bear and the Maiden Fair” gives me hope that the Dany/Jorah “I should have kissed you sooner” scene will happen :)

  587. Gonfaloniere
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    Bardard,

    your “White Harbor meat pie” comment made me laugh and laugh, so thanks!!

    More on Ros: In episode 3 when Tyrion goes to get the books from Littlefinger, Littlefinger mentions that he knows Cersei believes Ros has a “special relationship” with Tyrion, and doesn’t seem completely convinced by Tyrion’s denial, wondering how Cersei got the idea in the first place. I’m betting that, although Littlefinger’s motive for getting rid of Ros was because she was spying on him for Varys, he decided to cause some extra badness by mentioning to Joffrey that Ros was Uncle Tyrion’s special friend (plus, I’m sure Joffrey remembered Ros was one of the girls Tyrion “bought” him for his birthday). We established in the conversation between Cersei and Tyrion that Joffrey really, really, really hates Tyrion and that Tyrion knows this and mentions that Joff should have poisoned him. So what if Ros’s grisly death isn’t just a big middle finger to the fans (*rolls eyes*) and instead is quite meaningful as foreshadowing of the suspicion that will fall on Tyrion – especially on Cersei’s part – for Joffrey’s death by poison. Tyrion has already mentioned poison to Cersei and now Joffrey has brutally murdered the woman Cersei believes is Tyrion’s mistress giving Tyrion motive and means in Cersei’s eyes.

    Sweet Sister, they haven’t really established the bear stuff with the Mormonts and Iain Glen is far to lean, graceful and blond to be called a bear by Dany (though the kiss may well happen. The only thing that we know for sure is that the actual bear is appearing in this episode!

  588. bearcatmark
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    Maxwell James:
    Lizard,

    Sure. But that’s the difference between “ruthless” and “sadistic.” With the first, the torture is a means to an end; in the second it is the end itself.

    Like WiC and others here, I’m not saying book Littlefinger is a good guy; he’s obviously a villain, albeit one with a tragic past. But in the book he was subtler, and his ruthlessness was focused on staying ahead in the game. He wouldn’t engage in torture for the sake of torture, because that’s not efficient.

    When has TV Littlefinger engaged in torture for the sake of torture? This week all he did was follow through on his threat to sell Ros to someone unseemly whenever she became a “bad investment.” But the other effects of doing so go right into Littlefinger’s desire to bring more chaos. I have no doubt this, combined with Tywin preventing the Tyrells from marrying Loras to Sansa will result in the PW, because the Tyrells will realize they cannot control Joffrey. I think this is another example of Littlefinger playing the long game masterfully.

    I think Littlefinger’s conversations with Varys have caused people to think he is more open in his dealings than in the book, but I think he is far from it. I just think he knows Varys is too good a player and knows him too well. So we get to see Littlefinger when he does not have to act like his ambitions (which everyone knows about) are more limited.

  589. fuelpagan
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    Maxwell James,

    Littlefinger offering Ros to Joffrey was all about the game, not torture or revenge. Those are simply his excuses to hide his true purpose for getting the Tyrell’s to move the way Littlefinger wants them too.

  590. Skipjack
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    I almost posted this last night but was hoping I’d change my mind after some reflection. But instead I’ve really managed to explain to myself my problems with last night. My problems with the episode are largely the problems I have with this season, and ultimately they are the same problems I’m having with the translation to the screen. This last episode was just very emblematic of them.

    I wrote for about half an hour about my issues with the episode and the show but I deleted them because I really think it all comes down to one thing. The show is not serving GRRM’s vision in terms of his appropriation of Faulkner’s line, that the story he wants to tell is the human heart in conflict with itself. These people are not in conflict with themselves but only others, and so many of these others have no heart much less conflict. That’s why show Littlefinger doesn’t do it for me, he’s not just ruthless he’s heartless, there’s nothing of interest there so why care that he should be a grudge holding magnificent bastard.

  591. Walter_Eagle
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    Syrio: Also needs more Jon Snow, you wouldn’t know by watching the show that Jon has more chapters than anyone else in ASOS.

    Actually, Arya has the most. Arya 13, Jon 12, Tyrion 11.

  592. Pod4King
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    I love the idea mentioned above that Mel is misreading her visions about Arya.

    The biggest hint comes from that first blue eyes, green eyes, then brown eyes.

    I’m assuming that means blue eyes, real Arya, and green and brown eyes belong to Alys Karstark and Jeyne Poole

    I like Gendry filling Edric’s role. I’m going to assume that means Gendry does very little or dies later in the books. Or better yet, his only importance comes from being one of Robert’s bastards. If that’s the case, I’m assuming they’ll replace him with that whore Bella. She might be really good since she was conceived during the battle of the Bells and Jon Connington will prolly be on the show by then

  593. Eor!
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    Hawk:
    Sunspear,

    all of Varys’ little birds are not Faceless Men…the Faceless Man code you refer to is what is communicated to Arya by her teachers/masters, in order to make her subservient to their will…consider again this organization of assassins, and the implausibility that the organization exists only to kill targets they have been paid to kill…as an organization, they have an agenda of their own, which is yet to be revealed…


    Varys has connections to the Faceless Men going back to AGOT…specifically, he moonlighted as Rugen, the jailer in the Black Cells, which is where Jaqen came from…also, it is so quintessential GRRM, who loves the doubles and the parallels, to have one Stark daughter (Sansa) serving under Littlefinger, and the other (Arya) serve under Varys…this also brings Arya to the point where she gets to figure out (she has received sensory training from the FM) that Varys is one of the people she overhead beneath the Red Keep in AGOT…what is she going to do when she figures that out? Break with the FM, which has been set up b/c she refuses to let go of her former life entirely and become No One..and finally, the cat, spying on Tommen, the one cat in the Red Keep that Arya could never catch, she has finally “caught”…

    the clues are there, and it’s been set up since book one…

    You are really pulling this out of your ass. I’m sure 90% or more realize the Faceless men have a motive, and that Arya is not going to end up a perfectly loyal member of them, but that in no way implies that she jumped continents to the Red Keep. Cats always follow Tommen, and besides that Arya still hasn’t finished her training.

    Also, there is no evidence that Varys is a faceless man. That’s a big theory, I find it very unlikely. We already know that Vary’s has “mummer’s tricks”, and we’ve had descriptions of his disguises by Tyrion. The only reason to assume he’s one of them is because he disguises himself and the stone bed he sleeps on, both of which are easily explained by his back story.

  594. oblivious
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    I’m half through book 4 FfC. About Petyr Baelish’s speech regarding the swords of the throne being a lie, is there some significant meaning behind it to be explained later on? or was there something mentioned earlier that I missed?

  595. Davy
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    oblivious:
    I’m half through book 4 FfC. About Petyr Baelish’s speech regarding the swords of the throne being a lie, is there some significant meaning behind it to be explained later on? or was there something mentioned earlier that I missed?

    Its his obsession. He is so obsessed with the throne that he counted all the swords. That’s the reason I think.

  596. Marie
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    I have just watched this week’s episode (I am in France) and wow … to me the moment when Jaime lays his hand over Brienne’s was just the BEST MOMENT OF GoT EVER…. <3
    Otherwise, I found the final very cheesy (seriously, in a Bollywood movie, with proper music, it surely would do great, but in my eyes it was not at all thronesque).

  597. Fat Pink Mast
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    Definitely the worst episode of the season. Tough to go from Bryan Cogman’s writing to D&D’s.

  598. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    Melisandre,
    In the book Sansa didn’t find out about the fact that she was marrying Tyrion and not Willas until she was actually putting on her wedding gown and Cersei came and told her. She was then force marched to the Sept to the ceremony. There were no Tyrells there so they either didn’t know or knew too last minute to do anything about it. And really what could they do? They’d have had to physically intervene and they don’t seem willing to come to blows over it or they would have openly engaged her to Willas/Loras in the first place.

  599. Steel_Wind
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ:
    Steel_Wind,

    Again, no, not in any way, shape or form.A democrat, regardless of what century you’re talking about is someone who advocates democracy, rule by the people and everyone gets a vote.

    *ahem* No. Your American public education in history is not serving you well here.

    Those who urged democracy in the 17th and 18th centuries did not for one moment suggest that those without sufficient property would get to vote. At the time, the only real source of income for the state was import duties and property tax. If you didn’t own sufficient property in order to be taxed, it seemed self-evidently absurd that a man should claim a right to decide how the taxes of other “men of property” were to be collected and spent.

    There is a reason that after the American Revolution, less than 10% of the population actually got to vote (it varied state to state). The early democrats were all elitists whose ideas grew out of voter qualifications in England in terms of property qualifications necessary to vote for MPs in the House of Commons. Those property qualifications were imported in Colonial America and applied to elections in colonial legislatures as well. Those property qualification were largely kept in place for some 40-60 years following the Revolution (depending in which state you lived). Where land was scarce and industry small (Rhode Island being the best example) very harsh property qualifications remained firmly in place until 1844.

    When land became plentiful and essentially free for the asking (as it was in ante bellum America during the pioneer period) and as the importance of land as capital in an industrialized economy diminished, property qualifications were dropped.

    It ended that way — but it sure as hell didn’t start that way. Not even during the American Revolutionary War was such a thing seriously proposed.

    Property qualifications were eased in England throughout the 19th century, but even by the time of WWI, 40% of men in the UK could not vote because of property qualifications. Still, every British soldier in the trenches at the Somme would have insisted he was fighting on behalf of a democracy – even though less than half of those soldiers owned (or rented) enough property to be able to vote.

  600. Joey
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    Melisandre: I would give a 5 to this episode.Good moments:- Jaime, Brienne and Lord Bolton- Melisandre’s little line to Arya (gave me chills!)- Hearing High Valyrian- Sam and Gilly (the Slayer is coming!)- Final scene (tacky as it was, I enjoyed it)Not so much:- Sansa and Loras (I hate how the show runners are always drawn to modern gay stereotypes. This hasn’t been the first time)- Ygritte admiting she knows Jon hasn’t given up the watch (why?!)- Tyrion warning Sansa about the wedding (I’d rather Sansa found out in the wedding day, like in the novels)- Littlefinger, once again, being a cartoon villain- Theon (excessively long and plain boring. My non-book-reader boyfriend is annoyed by them too, he thinks they’re repetitive)

    I like that Sansa found out now. It allows the viewers to watch Sansas hope and will get beaten into the ground while all the plotting and planning are happening. Plus if it happens before RW it would just be that much more miserable for her. And i like littlefingers Character but i guess thats how i seen him in the books. I dont neccesarily think its villanish more ambitious. and when Sansa has no hope who will be there to rescue her. I personally am loving the theon scenes. its great to see Ramseys sadistic nature because we all know from the books hes bat shit insane and feeds of the pain of others and theon falling down this pit of dispear and all the non book readers will probably start feeling so bad for him they will forget for a moment the bad shit he did and cheer for him when he finally escapes with the girl, before getting caught for more torture to insue. as for jon snow and yggrite, eh. doesnt really matter anyway just making a bigger connection between them cuz up until now there hasnt been much this season before the hot tub scene. You are correct on the loras scene but I was smiling at how acquard it was for him and Sansa was none the wiser. Seriously she is the only one is westeros who doesnt know. I love seeing her kinda go back to believing that life is like her songs.
    I think my one nag would be about The Queen of Thorns and Tywin. Although it was a great scene between to old master manipulaters. I cannot believe for a second that Tywin would let her get away with half the shit she said.If i wasnt a book readeri might be a little worried about her fate after pissing Tywin off.
    And I have no idea what to make of mels comments toward Arya. I hope they arent fucking anything up for future plot points

  601. Cookie
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

    Chris:
    Bardard,
    Good observation!
    There have been virtually no flashbacks, montages, dream sequences (except Bran’s which was more a representation of warging) or any other deviations from straightforward narrative.
    I’ve actually thought that events like the Field of Fire or Tyrion’s marriage to Tisha or Brandon and Rickon’s murders or Lyanna’s death or the history of the Unsullied might have been nicely presented as flashbacks… or montages.Peculiar that we finally get something like this at such a quirky time. If the technique had been employed before, it would have fit right in but, as it was, it seemed a heavy handed and awkward way to underscore the climb “theme.”
    Now, if we’re going to see MORE of these alternate forms of visual storytelling, I’d welcome the departure.

    The scene where the Nights Watch rides out beyond the wall at the end of season 1 and the last scene of Blackwater had similar montages. At least til now, they seem to use it once per season. :-)

  602. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    oblivious,

    About Petyr Baelish’s speech regarding the swords of the throne being a lie,

    He’s basically saying the throne is a hollow symbol of order and structure–a veneer of sorts that hides the true nature of what is going on, which is chaos. And chaos is what he needs to move up in the world. Since his fortunes just seem to keep improving and just about everyone else’s seem to keep degrading (except for the Tyrells), perhaps he is right!

  603. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    Joey,

    I cannot believe for a second that Tywin would let her get away with half the shit she said

    Well considering Tywin tolerates most of Tyrion’s bawdy and sarcastic statements so long as Tyrion ends up doing what he wants, why wouldn’t he give even more leeway to a very powerful, knowledgeable, and tough old bird. Tywin knows a worthy adversary when he sees one. Tywin probably sees her as an equal of sorts. Note the way he gives her his full attention and he offers her a drink. Didn’t do that with his kids. Their conversation is a straight up, hard nosed negotiation between equals. QOT is safe from Tywin and she knows it. Her grandchildren? Not so much.

  604. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    Joey,

    I thought the scene was believable between their show incarnations. They need each other (Tywin understands this better than most) and they’re operating well above the reach of “foul rumors” and the potential for blackmail on those bases. Stuck in the same boat, so it seems in character for them to more or less get along. Showyn is a bit more humanized than Bookwyn. I can see him giving one of his few existing peers (the pillar of the house that seals the Lannisters’ royal claim) the passes he gave Olenna. He even basically levels with her on the matter of incest without confirming anything.

  605. Wedge
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    Seriously…
    How cheap was that ending?

    They could have stopped with Jon and Ygritte going back to their feet on the top of the wall and looking at the south. The look in their eyes was more than enough and ten time more real and romantic than that cheesy kiss with the zoom out from the wall…

    It was bad, it looked bad… and it felt totally out of place for the series…

    Plus just having a very short nice and romantic scene after the evil Baelish monologue (which was excellent by the way) would have been much more impactful than this dragging cheesy kiss…

    Really, it’s the first time I’m disappointed by an episode ending and the first time I think GoT looked cheap…

    I sincerely hope that Jon Snow the character and his stroyline will be better treated after the battle at Castle Black…

  606. Deadtroll
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    NewJeffCT,

    In the book it was a dwarf wood witch that said something very similar to that. They have yet to meet in the series and I have read all of the books so far.

  607. Davy
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    I have seen all these posts about Theon so far. I am starting to wonder, where is yara?

  608. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    oblivious,

    He’s explaining the Iron Throne, as a seat of power, as an abstract. To illustrate this, he references his own accounting of the swords that compose the throne. Common legend claims it is made of a thousand, whereas he has counted less than 200. What he’s saying is the Iron Throne and even the notion of the Seven Kingdoms are more inflated notions than reality. The throne is less than a thousand swords. The realm is hopelessly divided, not the solid union of the Seven Kingdoms of old forged by dragonfire. But to strip away the myths, as Varys voices in his concern, would be to reveal the lies and exaggeration and expose the disorder and shortcomings that belie it all, including most importantly the hopeless division of the realm as a whole and the inadequacy of King’s Landing as a seat of power. If all that was truly out in the open, there would be no game of thrones worth playing to keep the houses in line, only bare rivalries and bloodshed, and no legitimized law over the land.

  609. Deadtroll
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    Wedge,

    I liked the ending as it stood. I thought it was beautiful.

  610. Ser Hound
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    For me, Littlefinger has been a down-right villain from the moment he betrayed Ned. The show is just giving us more of a glimpse into his villainous behavior. He’s a super creep. I don’t really care that he’s being portrayed somewhat one-sided, as we have dozens of other better characters that have more depth anyway.

    I’m hope he’s stabbed multiple times before all is done.

  611. Zack
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    Ser Hound,

    Putting spoiler tags around non-spoilers is silliness

  612. Ser Hound
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

    Deadtroll,

    I liked the ending as well. It was gorgeous. What’s wrong with having an uplifting (kind-of) ending for once. It was epic. Hoping for more Jon Snow in the next few episodes!

  613. Ser Hound
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    Zack,

    Except it would be revealing to non-readers that he doesn’t die in the next few seasons! People don’t realize that saying someone doesn’t die is a spoiler as well!

  614. DH87
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp: I assume the reasoning there is to extend the value of their subscription package between seasons, though it would seem a lot of people subscribe just during the new season. Maybe the vast majority of new subscribers just drift towards HBO between seasons.

    A lot of people don’t have the show (or any HBO tentpole shows) on their radar screens until they’ve been given the blu-rays/DVDs of previous seasons or bought them themselves. HBO must find that the excitement that builds from the promotion of the DVDs/blu-rays just prior to each new season translates into new subscriptions. The number one reason folks cancel their subs to premium channels (and to cable packages in general) is cost. It takes alot of enthusiasm among cost-sensitive subscribers to pick up HBO for three months just to watch one show. HBO hopes that some of them see enough to stick around for at least a few months more (which would for GOT mean staying around for TB).

    Free weekends, special offers, and appointment viewing are the most successful ways of getting new subscribers for premium channels. The viewers who are not so cost-aware stay around no matter what is on.

  615. Eugene Toussaint
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    Hawk,

    can you explain how Arya was present at Kevan’s death?

  616. dizzy
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    If there’s one character who’s deserving of the chaos of the Others sweeping down on them it’s Balish. All these scemes and betrayals then bam, zombie apocalypse on your doorstep.

  617. Lina
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    Regarding comments about Littlefinger wanting to be on the Iron Throne, I completely disagree. Littlefinger wants his pawn on the throne maybe, but he doesn’t want to sit there. He’s too cunning to not see that the minute he puts himself in an open position of power is the minute he gives himself up. It’s much safer to do what he does so well: to sit behind the curtain and pull the strings for the performers on stage. He’s a puppetmaster. There is no doubt about that. And a puppetmaster knows he shouldn’t be seen.

    Who knows what his true endgame is, but I think he’d feel triumph if he could play house in one of the great castles with a carbon copy of his desired bride. For all his brilliance, I think it’s rooted in an irrationally grandiose desire to prove to the world that he is/was good enough for Catelyn Tully.

  618. Juego de Tronos
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    The talk between PEtyr and Varys was awsome!

  619. KG
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    A real animal was killed for the sandwich I just ate. How will she sleep tonight, knowing of the terrible dark secret within my fridge?

  620. Ser Hound
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    Wedge,

    Here’s my cheesy romantic side coming out, but I thought Jon kissing her was an important turning point in their relationship. Up until that point, it felt like he was basically being forced into every romantic encounter with her. After climbing the Wall and almost dying with her, he finally feels a sincere connection and is generally happy to be alive, so he makes a move. Maybe a little cheesy, but I liked it.

  621. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    DH87,

    I believe the last group you mentioned, the ones who have HBO no matter what, are an older and fading breed. Less and less millennials warm up to the prerequisite cable packages that HBO subscriptions are often bound to. I do hope their distribution policies change, but we’re not likely to see that in time for GoT S3 to be released on Blu-ray anywhere near the season finale. :|

    HBO did put out the season premiere for a free weekend. Who knows what new marketing strategies they’ll come up with next?

  622. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    Bardard,

    Someone also mentioned Mormont’s pre-ranging pep talk to Jon in S1. I guess we’re just not used to montages earlier in the season?

  623. Mark
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    Eugene Toussaint:
    Hawk,

    can you explain how Arya was present at Kevan’s death?

    Pretty sure, if I remember correctly, it’s noted that a cat, most likely the black tomcat Arya had chased around the Red Keep in AGoT, was present for Kevan’s murder, and there’s speculation that Arya’s been warging it. Not sure it passes the sniff test, but not completely implausible. There’s also been speculation that Arya has been warging Tommen’s cats, and that the black tom was Rhaenys’ cat that she named Balerion. Lot of cat conspiracies.

  624. Alan Lovejoy
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Ser Hound,

    I don’t see what’s wrong with the ending of the episode. Like every other #GOT episode, the ending was a “cliffhanger.” Just one of a different sort :-)

  625. KG
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Mark,

    Don’t you know that every little girl mentioned in the books from here on out will “actually” be Arya according to one fanwank theory or another?

  626. Phil
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    I guess after 5 great (and the previous two were just AMAZING) episodes, they’re allowed a “meh” episode. I just hope that they don’t start making the drastic changes they made in the second half of last season (Jon’s story, Dany’s story, etc). However, next week is Martin’s ep, and then episode 9 is…..well, book readers know. Pretty much the scene D&D have probably been looking forward to for 3 seasons, they won’t risk screwing that up….hopefully.

  627. Nagga's Kin
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    Pod4King: The biggest hint comes from that first blue eyes, green eyes, then brown eyes.

    I loves me a good conspiracy theory but I would be surprised if the order in which Mel mentions the colors turns out to be particularly significant. Between them, these colors cover essentially the entire population.

    IMHO, the more important part is where Mel predicts that Arya will “close their eyes forever”. That could mean one of two things (or both):

    a) Arya ends up actually killing people, presumably from her list
    b) Arya ends up crossing the Narrow Sea and becomes what Jaqen H’ghar already is, i.e. someone who both exists and does not and can change her eye color (and everything else) at any time.

  628. Wedge
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    Ser Hound,

    I’m not against the fact to show how romantic Jon and Ygritte can be. I’m all for it really, it can only make the event to come more inpactful. But I was really expecting something more subtle and nicely executed from this show.

    The zoom out from the wall with these two kissing as a focal point… It was so cliché… I felt it was pull out from a bad romantic comedy…

    Climbing the wall was a very tough thing to do, they almost died. I believed there were more classy and realistic ways (I mean in terms of imagery) to show their love and how much they now care for each other to the viewer than the one they choose…

    And I think it continues the streak of bad decisions regarding how the Jon storyline is handled and filmed.

  629. Shock Me
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    I think they have been going at it like rabbits (unskinned). I was more disappointed with last season when they left out and rejiggered Jon’s time with the Halfhand and Stone Snake in favor of Ygritte. With as little screen time as Jon has had this season I think they have done a decent job. I would have started the gang, John and Ygritte in the pool and then have him look around after dunking himself to find everyone but Ygritte had left.

  630. jkb
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    a little bit too much melodrama for my taste, not enough joffrey. other then that, awesome episode, my 2nd favourite this season (after the previous one).

    i must be a sick psycho but ramsay/theon scene gave me major giggles, starting with the trumpet (buahahah). awesome acting on iwan.

    and if i had to nitpick, the guys climbing the wall didn’t seem to put enough force in sticking the picks in the ice – just looked like it’s too easy at times, dunno.

    i also loved the freys, their stupid fucking hats and twatty behaviour. awesome. can’t wait for more.

  631. Maxwell James
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    bearcatmark,
    fuelpagan,

    Yeah, I read the same explanation upthread. I don’t buy it. Littlefinger’s sadism has been evident in the TV show from pretty much the get-go. It’s in the script, it’s in Gillen’s performance, in a way that it never was in the books. Hell, the scene where he originally threatens Ros is every bit as sadistic as his latest scene with Varys – but there was no pretense of a “game” there whatsoever.

    Again, I’m not saying he’s not a villain – but with a murderer’s row as lengthy as that in Thrones, I appreciate a little diversity in my villains. We’ve already got two major sadists in Joffrey and Ramsay, plus numerous minor ones such as Locke. Why does Littlefinger have to be one too?

  632. Liz B.
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Isabelle,

    We know Joff’s a bad shot - remember the rabbits practically overrunning KL after he got his new crossbow? And yet it still looked intentional to me….

  633. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    Shock Me,

    Yeah, last season had Jon pulling a Dany, that is, both of them had pretty empty arcs overall, Jon even more so. They poured a lot of love into his scenes this season, as much as some people are still left wanting.

  634. Adam
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    I just meant when they plan out the season, structure “the big event” of the season in a different episode. Most people when watching a show always expect the big event in the finale, deaths or twists or whatever. But in GOT its always in episode 9. So just mix it up a bit, because sometimes even knowing something big will happen softens the shock. Does that make sense? Again not complaining, just really want RW to be the shock it should be.

  635. KG
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    jkb: i also loved the freys, their stupid fucking hats and twatty behaviour. awesome

    Hah, yeah … the nasty hillbillies of Westeros!

  636. Mira
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    Jeffrey,

    Thank you.

    He killed two innocent boys. Let’s not forget this, while we feel uncomfortable watching his torture.

  637. KG
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    Liz B.:
    Isabelle,

    We know Joff’s a bad shot - remember the rabbits practically overrunning KL after he got his new crossbow? And yet it still looked intentional to me….

    He’s a bad shot in the book. In the show, he took out the boar’s eye.

  638. Handmaiden of Dany
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    After reading 600 and something of these comments, I want to give my two cents.

    I was really upset that Ros died. I didn’t expect it at all and it made it that more f*ed up. I seriously couldn’t remember what happened after that until reading it on here. I was in that much shock…well and a few beers to many. Going to rewatch tonight. Just wanted to say that I really enjoyed this episode!

  639. obsidian
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    Mark , Eugene Toussaint, Hawk

    There’s been a lot of speculation about the KL Cat , but I think the more likely scenario is that for years, Bloodraven has been skinchanging into the cat , keeping tabs on KL … e.g. that the cat made sure Arya followed him to where she could overhear Varys and Illyrio

  640. Gregory Kelton
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    The DarkStar:

    Arya will kill
    Cercie

    Some speculation here, some may think it spoilery since it’s guessing about future events, so I’ll spoiler block it:

    Jamie will kill Cersei. That’s what that witch that Cersei got her fortune told from was talking about when she said Cersei would be killed by her valonqar (“little brother”). Martin has made it a point at least once in the book to mention that Cersei was born first, thus Jamie is her little brother. Also, I’m pretty sure Jamie says something early on about “we came into this world together and we’ll leave it together”, which is clearly foreshadowing by GRRM. Cersei believing that it is Tyrion is just her misunderstanding a prophecy, which GRRM likes to do a lot. Mark my words, Jamie kills Cersei (and then possibly himself).

  641. Mira
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    David The Grey:
    I agree with most of what WiC noted.I liked the Climb well enough (especially when the ice chunk broke off sending one of the squads to their death), but didn’t care much for the romantic scene at top.I liked that Ygritte wanted to see what it looked like south of the wall, but the framing of the kiss with Jon Snow seemed too Hollywoodish to me.But don’t gete me wrong, I loved all of the rest of their interaction this episode.

    I don’t mind that slight bit of romance, since romance is used very sparingly in the series (can’t even remember 1 scene I found romantic in season 2, though I suppose Robb/Talisa was supposed to be this). An overdose of romance would not work, but the almost complete absence is also not realistic.

  642. Gregory Kelton
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    SerCountryFriedSteak:
    I actively HATED this episode… Just like last season’s stalling before Blackwater, this was an episode where the forward momentum was Jon climbing the Wall & Ros’ death.

    That’s it in 60 minutes.

    For every right move these guys make, they f-ing do this stalling BS is driving me nuts

    If I could give it 0 stars, I would

    It sounds like you just don’t like the more character development heavy episodes and prefer the more plot driven ones. That’s understandable, but I’m not with you. I thought this episode was really good.

  643. Liz B.
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    jay,

    Sorry, but I can’t help myself.

    I love the way your typo turned Joffrey into David Hasslehoff!

  644. Eor!
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    Maxwell James:
    bearcatmark,
    fuelpagan,

    Yeah, I read the same explanation upthread. I don’t buy it. Littlefinger’s sadism has been evident in the TV show from pretty much the get-go. It’s in the script, it’s in Gillen’s performance, in a way that it never was in the books. Hell, the scene where he originally threatens Ros is every bit as sadistic as his latest scene with Varys – but there was no pretense of a “game” there whatsoever.

    Again, I’m not saying he’s not a villain – but with a murderer’s row as lengthy as that in Thrones, I appreciate a little diversity in my villains. We’ve already got two major sadists in Joffrey and Ramsay, plus numerous minor ones such as Locke. Why does Littlefinger have to be one too?

    I don’t see him as being sadistic, more that he views violence as a tool. Think of it like Tywin with the Mountain. Gregor is cruel, and Tywin uses this, but as Tywin says the Mountain is a mad dog, and his use is to inspire fear. By giving Ros to Joffrey, Littlefinger is ensuring that future spies will be terrified of betraying him, lest they meet the same end. I don’t think Littlefinger enjoys violence, he just likes power and knows the value of violence in achieving it. He didn’t really care what Joffrey did to Ros: torture her or give her a quick death, what mattered was that she died and Vays knows it.

  645. Liz B.
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    Gregory Kelton,

    100% in agreement on that one!

  646. Iron Born
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    Anyone feeling pity for theon should rewatch season 2 from “the prince on winterfell” forward

  647. bearcatmark
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Maxwell James,

    I just strongly disagree that he has been portrayed as one. To me he has been portrayed as I remember him from the book, someone who is out there trying to create chaos and rise up as a result. I never have gotten the impression he takes pleasure in the pain of others, just that simply he will use anyone, when necessary to move himself up.

  648. Hodors Balls
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Great episode , and remember everyone……… Hodors balls are HUGE

  649. Darquemode
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Gregory Kelton,

    Cersei is Jaime’s Nissa Nissa. He will definitely kill her.

  650. Yellow Dog
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    Phil:

    is Sam the Slayer going to be in this or not, becasue they keep teasing us, but then not doing it.Also does it count if Gilly’s the only one around to witness it, would the Night’s Watch believe her?It looses something if the other men don’t name him the slayer

    Excellent point that never occurred to me. Could have big ramifications – not so much on Sam’s reputation (he doesn’t want it) but on the Night Watch’s acceptance of this new/old weapon.

  651. The Rabbit
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    Not the best episode so far, but definetely beautiful one.
    Slow paced, which I like, a lots of emotions and character driven dialogues.
    I think some people tend to forget that ASOIAF in its core is more about the characters then action itself.
    This episode was a well made set up for a storm to some.I mus admit that Ros death really disturbed me, never really thought of her as unecessary character. She nicely filled the gap of small folk in the show. But I was pretty sue it would ever be a happy ending with her once she got involved with bot Varys and LF.
    Onto bookfinger vs. showfinger subject:
    One particular thing comes to mind: If we got Bookfinger on the show without his, sometimes overhelming explanation of his deeds we would need an entire episode in S4 with Littlefinger explaining to Sansa what he had done…now it would be boring. Just imagine a half an hour long monologue by LF on the screen…lol

  652. Adam
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    Darquemode,

    Great point. Unsure how in all my thinking of different ways this could play out I didn’t think of that one. Now if that doesn’t happen, I will be let down.

  653. Gregory Kelton
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    Weren’t we supposed to be getting longer episodes this season? Have the episodes actually been longer?

  654. Yellow Dog
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    Scotty:
    Am I the only one genuinely upset at Ros’ death?

    I am, too! I liked her from the start (for liking Tyrion better than Theon), and really liked her when she started betraying Littlefinger, whom I really hate. Her death to me was much more proof of LF’s evil than of Joffrey’s, and also the loss of maybe the last person able to throw a wrench in his deadly works.

  655. Idaan
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    Adam,

    I bet people will expect the big event in Episode 9 to be Daenerys besieging Yunkai, they’re really building it up, and the synopsis for the episode mentions her drawing up battle plans.So people will expect a showdown, just in a different place.

  656. Dan V
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    Mel interaction with Thoros and Arya was not in book three, correct? I thought it was a pretty sweet scene, especially that last little interaction between Mel and Arya! Can’t wait for her story/journey to unfold.

  657. sunspear
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    dizzy:
    If there’s one character who’s deserving of the chaos of the Others sweeping down on them it’s Balish. All these scemes and betrayals then bam, zombie apocalypse on your doorstep.

    Baelish would be the guy to pull a Craster and offer up sacrifices for protection.

  658. Ed
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    Hah! And did you see the way they walked?

    KG: Hah, yeah… the nasty hillbillies of Westeros!

  659. Flouride
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    Liked:

    - The scenery from top of the Wall.

    - Tywin and QoT going at it

    - Ros killed in a brutal way. I don’t hate Esme, but the character had lived long enough in the series where actual characters from the book are cut left and right.

    - Roose Bolton. Michael (cba to check his last name, it’s late) is really playing him well. The dinner scene worked for me.

    - Freys looking like Freys. Though I did imagine Black Walder more muscular and threathening. He looked a bit frail.

    - Enjoyed Mel’s and Thoros’s conversation. A bit torn about it though, as you can read from further down.

    - Boy oh boy. Such a sadictic fella. Great casting once again.

    Disliked:

    - Brotherhood selling Gendry off. First of all, a blacksmith is probably worth more than they got in gold. 2nd, since when does a brotherhood sacrifice one of their own. 3rd this is a huge variation from the books and as such pretty awful one. While Gendry is no major player, he has his role in the the books and as a sacrificial lamb I think they really doing the character a real disservice. How hard would it have been to mention Edric Storm once last season and have Mel draw blood from him, instead of going after Gendry…

    - Willas and Garlan being cut. Don’t really need to see either one of those guys in the series, but it again takes away some of the depth in the politics when they remove the heir for House Tyrell. “Everyone” seems to know Loras is gay, so I guess House Tyrell is left without a proper heir in the tv series… And dammit, he was put in the Kingsguard for a reason in the books.

    - Tormund. Nothing against the actor, but I feel like Tormund isn’t Tormund from the books. He is way more serious in series than in the books and feels just wrong. The book Tormund made me laugh multiple times, in the tv series he just looks hard and pretty much says anything at all.

    - 20 men (I guess 16 now) are attacking the wall?

    - Where’s Grenn and all the rest of the survivors from Craster’s. Don’t want Sam lumbering around alone (just yet).

    - Littlefinger still comes out as too obvious. For me much of his actions were more subtle in the books and he actually had some muscle with him, now he was no one supporting him. He could be killed just like that with no one watching his back.

    - Lack of wolves this season. Would be nice to know how much it costs them to make a 1 min scene with one of the direwolves.

    - Meera and Osha going at it. Felt a bit pointless to me. Surely you can have them do something more exciting than having an argument over who skins rabbits better? Felt like they just had to throw in a Bran scene so people don’t forget him and didn’t come up with anything for Bran to do.

  660. Jaime's Maimed Hand
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    charles:
    give me more Brian cogman writing episodes and i;ll die happy. The guy should be writing more than one ep a season, then maybe we woudn’t get bad writing like we got 75% of this episode. In that varys-little finger scene, i swear i kept picturing him twirling long mustachios while laughing maniacally at how ebuuuul he is.

    Than theon storyline? what a mess.

    Well, it’s a good thing you didn’t write the episode. I can barely understand what the hell you’re saying.

    I guess that’s what happens though. Those that CAN’T form a sentence judge others that can. And accuse them of bad writing. Hypocrites at its finest.

  661. Ed
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Nnooooooo… You’re kidding, right?

    AlleraSarella:
    I and my entire family have permanently checked out.Not watching anymore.I’m done, the rabbit scene did it.Before I could believe that the dead animals were fiberglass or digital, now I know that they killed those rabbits the morning of for that moronic scene between Meera and Osha.

  662. Zack
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    Darquemode,

    I will honestly be shocked if this doesn’t happen, just like the popular thought on Jon’s parents there’s just been too much foreshadowing for it to not happen. I love that the valonqar thing is true after all just not the brother she expects

  663. Jaime's Maimed Hand
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    AlleraSarella:

    Lol at not watching anymore because rabbits died. Seven hells, what is Westeros supposed to be? A digital haven full of Fairies so that no rabbits may ever die?

    I’m sure Game of Thrones won’t miss you or your family.

  664. alex
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    At OP , what are you talking about ? Littlefinger not cruel ? Did you read the books… He used Catelyn’s syster to get the Vale ,and before he killed he told her that the only woman he ever loved was Catelyn, not to mention the big reveal at the end of book 3 is that Lysa poisoned john arryn and practically the entire war started because Littlefinger asked her to do so because he knew she was in love with him , and thats just one example…, you clearly missed some points from the book, Littlefinger is like varys said the most dangerous man alive, all ambition , a genius and no conscience, probably the only weak spot he ever had was he loved Catelyn !

  665. Adam
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    Idaan,

    I hope so. And i guess my worry won’t be around past next year considering that the PW will probably be in an earlier episode next season than 9. And that is on par with the RW, Ned, and Blackwater. So non book readers will have no idea what is coming.

  666. NomadicDirewolf
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    i personally loved the theon-ramsay scene, its the first time we get to see the real ramsay in a scene, and i loved the acting of both Iwan Rheon (terrific casting!) and Alfie Allen, who you can already see glimpses of reek in. They had great chemistry, which is great considering they will have a lot to do with one another over the next two or three seasons.
    I liked the climbing scenes too, the sfx were great and i love the jon-ygritte relationship becoming as well written as in the books.
    I’m glad that Ros is dead, i didnt mind her as a character but she represented the shows excessive use of nudity for no reason (dont get me wrong, i’m fine with it being put in, we shouldnt shy away from nudity in stories if its a plot point, or logically would be there, but the tits for tits sake thing that seemed to be going on in the brothel and not many other storylines just made it seem perverted)
    I thought that there were quite a few changes in this episode from the book, all of them i think most can be justified but still i’m slightly uneasy with the changes to joffrey sending mandon moore to kill tyrion and not cersei, and the whole pyschopath being a sexual thing

  667. shadowassassinbabby
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Ser Osis of Liver: I really hope that Alfie gets to speak of that experience at some point, perhaps on the DVD extras or in a media interview because I’d like to hear his take on how that scene affected him personally, if at all.It was beautifully done, creepy as hell, and was even enough to make me turn away when they showed the finger, but still, a great scene.

    saw this on Rolling Stone (it’s from April 23, but on point and interesting regarding Alfie Allen, Iwan Rheon, and the scenes with the cross):

    Finally, is that cross comfortable?
    [Very seriously] No. Not at all. I’ve got to be careful what I say, but it wasn’t comfortable. I’ve got a knee injury as well, so it didn’t help. It really was demoralizing at times. It was hard. It was really, really hard. I would spend probably about an hour and a half to two hours just tied to that cross, and it wasn’t nice. But whatever – I just get on with it and I use it. And Iwan was really great as well. When we were doing it, he was always there. He’d just talk to me. I didn’t have to do any acting toward a double.

    There was definitely some stuff going on in my life then which I used as well. There’s a scene later on where I basically just fucking broke down. I remember Iwan, on the day, didn’t really know if he should continue or if he should stop, because I was really really, really breaking down. That’s one scene I’m definitely excited to see.

    made me wonder if we’ve seen the scene Alfie’s referring to (“I basically just fucking broke down”), or if there’s something even more wrenching to come.

  668. UnRobb
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    DING DONG THE BITCH IS DEAD

    THANK YOU BASED JOFFREY

  669. Mike Chair
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    alex: Littlefinger not cruel ?… before he killed he[r]

    Yes. Pushed her out the Moon Door, he did, sending her plunging hundreds of feet to her death, leaving her only child an orphan, and in the care of his mother’s murderer. That Littlefinger. What a guy!

  670. Gregory Kelton
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    Doug:
    So, I don’t like to bash actors, but I have to say something.

    As much grief as D&D get (and most of it deserved), I’m not sure it’s their fault with how poorly Littlefinger is coming off in the TV adaptation. I think it mostly has to do with Aidan Gillen. And I don’t mean he’s a bad actor, certainly he’s not. What I mean is the choice he has made on how to play Littlefinger is what is throwing people off. He has changed his natural voice, to something that resembles somewhat of a cartoon character, he moves like the villain in a cartoon, and it’s not at all far fetched to suggest you can picture him as the evil twirling mustache man in a cartoon.

    I half expect to see him invent railroad tracks just he can tie someone to them for crying out loud.

    I think his way of playing Littlefinger is what makes that character come off so bizarrely.

    I have to agree.

  671. M
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    Jeffrey,

    He didn’t kill Luwin. That was all Dagmer.

  672. Yellow Dog
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    Steven Swanson,

    LOL! Me, too. As a American Southerner, I find the British accents incomprehensible. Thank goodness NCW learned BBC English. :-)

  673. Liz B.
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    Richard,

    The sleeper has awakened.

  674. Jaime's Maimed Hand
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    Adam,

    Can you remind me what PW stands for? Yes, I have read the entire series.

  675. Liz B.
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    Not that it’s particularly important, but I get a huge kick out of Locke/Vargo looking just like the six-fingered man from the Princess Bride. Just sayin’.

  676. Darquemode
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    Zack,

    Me too.
    Between the delicious irony that Tywin has been treating Tyrion like a bastard when he is his only true heir, the Valonqar prophecy, the Azor Ahai prophecy, TPwwP prophecy, the kinslayr versus kingslayer ironies, and the foreshadowing that Jaime and Cersei are Targs (much more apparent to me on TV) everything just falls into place!

    Of course it is all conjecture and all the supporting “facts” can be taken multiple ways, but it just makes so much sense to me!

  677. Maxwell James
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    Darquemode,

    Personally, I prefer the theory that Sandor is the valonqar. It strikes me as being more in line with Martin’s sense of humor.

  678. DH87
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    Gregory Kelton: Weren’t we supposed to be getting longer episodes this season? Have the episodes actually been longer?

    Last season’s episodes averaged 54.9 minutes in length (including the 64-minute finale). Thus far this season’s episodes average 55 minutes.

  679. Currer Bell
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    Oh, Tywin, you picked the wrong li’l ole lady to fuck with. Your pen isn’t the only thing she’s gonna break.

  680. Eor!
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    Can someone explain to me why people seem to think Jaime and Cercei are Targs? That always seemed ridiculous to me

  681. Liz B.
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    Jaime’s Maimed Hand,

    Purple Wedding.Not a title in the books – something made up by posters to describe Joffrey’s wedding – how he turns purple. To separate it from the Red Wedding (RW).

  682. Maxwell James
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    Gregory Kelton,
    Doug,

    OK. Why is it’s Gillen’s fault and not that of the people who hired him and (presumably) coach him on playing the role – and who also write it?

    Gillen may or may not be up to the challenge of playing Littlefinger well, but ultimately it is D&D’s responsibility.

  683. Ser Hound
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    Wedge,

    I agree, there has been some bad decisions made with Jon Snow’s story in the last couple seasons. I think one major reason enjoyed the ending because Jon is so god damn depressing most of the time. I’m hoping that after this, he will lighten up and start developing more of a relationship with Tormund and the other wildlings. Maybe it was a little cliche, but the show is so god damn twisted and unpredictable most of the time, I felt like it was a little refreshing to have a little cliche romantic snogging.

  684. Lazlo Woodbine
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I meant ‘season’ sorry. Yeah, I agree that a couple from previous seasons were weaker. Even at its worst this show is still pretty great though.

  685. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    Doug,

    I agree, someone needs to tell Aidan to stop with the Dark Knight voice because it is throwing off his whole performance. He need not talk like this during S1.

  686. JamesL
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    KG,

    Thats nice but I don’t know why you are telling me this because I was not the original poster who complained about them killing rabbits.

  687. Gregory Kelton
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    Flouride:
    Disliked:

    - Meera and Osha goingat it. Felt a bit pointless to me. Surely you can have them do something more exciting than having an argument over who skins rabbits better? Felt like they just had to throw in a Bran scene so people don’t forget him and didn’t come up with anything for Bran to do.

    I suspect they’ll pay this off at some point down the road. Remember that they’ve gotta split Osha/Rickon from Bran and the rest. I suspect the fact that Osha and Meera don’t get along (as well as the two having similar skills) will be used as justification for splitting them apart).

  688. Gregory Kelton
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    DH87: Last season’s episodes averaged 54.9 minutes in length (including the 64-minute finale). Thus far this season’s episodes average 55 minutes.

    54.9 versus 55 is virtually identical. So ya…

  689. Gregory Kelton
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    Maxwell James:
    Gregory Kelton,
    Doug,

    OK. Why is it’s Gillen’s fault and not that of the people who hired him and (presumably) coach him on playing the role – and who also write it?

    Gillen may or may not be up to the challenge of playing Littlefinger well, but ultimately it is D&D’s responsibility.

    Because a lot of the problems I have with the character have to do with the acting. The way he walks and moves his hands and intentionally rasps his voice, it all screams cartoon villain! He even James-Bond-Villain monologued his plans in S1 (ok, that’s definitely writing). Maybe you can lay his acting on direction, but I suspect it’s more Aiden’s choice than direction. Of course, as writers/producers and now even occasional directors, D&D deserve fair blame for failures (“the buck stops here” so to speak), but I get the impression that Aiden’s acting is a large part of my issues with LF as he’s portrayed in the show. I accept I could be wrong, that Aiden is actually like “Oh come on, do I really have to say it that way!?!?”

  690. Eric
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    I thought the writing was great in this ep. Although I thought B Cogs did a great job last ep, I do think some people on this site are suffering from “backup quarterback syndrome.” I also like the changes made to Littlefinger. I think the cold reveal, which worked great in the book, would come across too “skoobie dooie” on screen.

  691. Anguy
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    sedeyus,

    lol completely agree, I clapped when I saw her shot up. Been waiting seasons for her to bite the bullet. Pointless, irrelevant and dry character.

  692. Ed
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    What are you talkin about!?? There’s 6 whole seconds difference! LoL

    Gregory Kelton: 54.9 versus 55 is virtually identical.So ya…

  693. Al Swearengen
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    Huzzah they finally killed off Ros :-)

    Solid episode, not as good as the previous ones but I still enjoyed it.

  694. Yellow Dog
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    Max:
    Does anyone else think that we might see another slight departure from the books and perhaps Ramsay will take Theon to Edmure’s wedding?
    The writers might want to give Theon a chance to apologize to Robb while he still can.

    Oh please no. I am a book reader who loves the new take the show changes give on the story, but that is Too. Much. There is a line beyond which the Graying Of Coal-Black Evil Theon may not go and that is it.

    Theon – and Theon alone – is responsible for the Red Wedding. To absolve the miserable mother-fu**er at the very scene of his crime would be unforgivable.

  695. Ed
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    Having never seen him in anything before, I’m completely unaware of what he’s “supposed” to sound like. So it works just fine for me.

    Gregory Kelton: Because a lot of the problems I have with the character have to do with the acting.The way he walks and moves his hands and intentionally rasps his voice, it all screams cartoon villain!

  696. Gatehouse Ami
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    I saw a huge missed opportunity this week. Why watch Sansa cry as her ship sails instead of showing us a small secret ceremony in the Sept of Baelor?… It needn’t have been elaborate, it’s an ambush wedding. Joffrey and Cersei laughing as Sansa, all tears, refuses to kneel when Tyrion is charged by tradition to cover her with the Lannister cloak of protection and can’t reach. The hell! Dontos kneels for Tyrion to step up, as ordered by Joffrey. Hence, “The Climb.” Why not? Too easy and straight from the book? But it’s called “The Climb!” It’s perfect! I’m not a book purist. I just like my way better.

  697. Al Swearengen
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    As soon as I saw Ros on that post full of arrows I could just hear all the fans celebrating around the world lol.

  698. Yellow Dog
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    novichaso,

    The guy is slowly killing ‘Sweet Robin’ for crying out loud!

    LOL! That’s the one thing I don’t hate him for.

  699. KG
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    I was commenting upon your comment. Just as you commented upon hers. It’s called a “conversation.” Perhaps you should get out and try one sometime.

  700. Reezie
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

    LordDavos12,

    I think it’s a foreshadowing of the eyes of the people she’ll eventually kill staring back at her.

  701. rorschach-
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    So many posts and unfortunately not enough time at the moment to read through all of them.

    But I have to say that I loved the Littlefinger scene with Varys. Like Varys said “Littlefinger would see the country burn if he could be the king of ashes.” Later LF ofcourse gets to show his soft side with Sansa and I think it will play very well. I will call it “LF Redemption”.

    And for how it seemed to make LF sadistic and not just him doing it because it made him climb up the ladder, I don’t think it went like that. He threatened Varys, he made it sound like he was maniac and brutal. LF would totally use the opportunity to manipulate Varys thinking that he has sadistic madman side in him too, that not everything he does goes with reason… Or that’s what I would do atleast.

    Oh and also, damn, Melisandre dropping spoiler bombs. Great scene.

  702. David The Grey
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    Mira: An overdose of romance would not work, but the almost complete absence is also not realistic.

    I had a weird thought that it reminded me of a Gone With The Wind poster (or movie cover?)? I’ve never actually seen Gone With The Wind (yet), so my memory could be confusing it with some other classic movie. But the way that kiss was framed, Gone With the Wind is what came to mind. I’m not against romance per se either… this one just nearly took me out of the scene, is all.

    I loved the part earlier in the episode where she got all intense and told him that he was hers and she was his – I forget the exact lines, but pretty much love meant to her that it was them against the world with only each other to look after each other. That’s wildy romantic (to me) – I loved the intensity in that scene.

  703. Maxwell James
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    Gregory Kelton,

    Actors usually don’t have that much autonomy. If David and Dan don’t like how Gillen is interpreting the character, they can tell him to change his interpretation.

  704. Yellow Dog
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ,

    I sincerely hope you are right. I spent an enormous amount of time and energy two years ago on the westeros board (yeah, I know) trying to persuade Sansa fans that she was dead wrong, stupid and cruel to reject the man who literally saved her from gang rape.

    Yes, I’m a Tyrion partisan, but of all of Sansa’s faults, the most unforgivable to me (after getting her father killed) is her rejection of Tyrion.

  705. Tar Kidho
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    Weird episode. Some scenes I thought were perfect (e.g. Olenna-Tywin; Ygritte talking about Jon’s motives before the climb) while others felt completely “out-of-sync” (Bran storyline; Tyrion coming to talk with Sansa then cutting away; LF/Ross; discussion about the Edmure-Frey wedding). All in all a very patchy episode, which you can’t entirely blame on it being an “intermediary” episode. D&D are NOT my favourite writers…

    On the climb scene: I don’t like heights, and even seeing scenes on-screen where large drops are shown make me cringe and grab hold of my sofa. So yes, the climbing scene had its intended effect on me, but on the other hand the realist in me also thinks “fake” when the dramatic action happens (One person supporting the force of three others that dropped a few meters on ice axes, really? And one person who barely got his ice axe fixed supporting another person that dropped a serious distance, really?) Then again, there’s very few action scenes in films or tv series that suck me in by appearing realistic, so I assume it’s a personal issue I have… As Winter said though, in comparison with other movies/series, this more than stood its ground.

    One more thing though: didn’t the Wall seem extremely narrow at the top? Like “too-narrow-to-stay-upright-for-a-700ft-high-wall”…

    Conclusion: after three weeks of 5/5, this was only 3/5 IMO…

  706. Yellow Dog
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    Pod4King,

    Arya has grey eyes, like Ned and Jon. Sansa has blue eyes.

  707. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    Yellow Dog,

    I know what you mean. When I first read the books I HATED Sansa. Second reading I had more sympathy for her. Now with the show, Sophie does such a good job. I do feel that I pity the TV Sansa much more than I did the book one. I’m not sure if it’s the way they’ve written the character or if it’s just seeing Sansa’s emotional reactions to things. I just re-read the Tyrion/Sansa wedding scene it occurred to me that TV Tyrion is A LOT more pleasant to look at than book Tyrion, so it makes more sense for her to reject him. Not to be shallow but would any 16 year old girl want to have sex with a grown man so scarred (missing a nose is pretty disfiguring) even if he is a very nice man? Still there are so many instances where Sansa (both book and show) just fails to “get it” or fails to take any positive action to save herself. She’s so damn passive it’s infuriating! I don’t think she starts to really grow up until she’s stuck in the Eyre with that weird little boy but it takes sooooo long for her to grow unlike many of the other characters.

  708. Yellow Dog
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    Gregory Kelton,

    Dead. On.

  709. Christicle
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    I think it’s pretty much at the point where D&D are going to tell the story the way they want to tell it, to the point where it almost feels like they are refusing to reuse scenes from the books. This was most noticeable after watching last weeks episode, where B. Cogman had a much more healthy ratio of book material to “new” material, with a lot of dialogue straight from the book.

    I like this at times, as it changes things up for me as a reader. But lets be real, it’s going to be hard for D&D to outdo most of the material in aSoS, so it’s frustrating at times to not see them pull from it more.

  710. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    Lina,

    For all his brilliance, I think it’s rooted in an irrationally grandiose desire to prove to the world that he is/was good enough for Catelyn Tully.

    Wholeheartedly agree with this!

  711. db
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    Gatehouse Ami,

    i concur

  712. Yellow Dog
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ,

    Agree completely. It does take a while for most of us to realize that looks rarely reflect accurately the personality within.

  713. waddy
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

    Pretty poor stuff. Felt like it was written by a different writer/writers from every other episode of the season so far. Terribly edited as well- what was with the voiceover montage revealing Ros’s death? It was obviously originally intended to be the end of the episode but they tagged on another scene afterwards. Of course the reason why this was done was because they are clearly struggling to keep all the important storylines flowing smoothly and also struggling to ensure that the average viewer knows (let alone cares) who everyone is.

  714. Tar Kidho
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

    About Littlefinger: in the books he climbed the social ladder (ha…ladder) by playing the “game of thrones” in a very subtle way, presenting himself to the world as a likeable person. In the tv show they made him so obviously vile that he never would have reached his current status in the first place before someone cut him down. So I don’t blame Aiden Gillen. Remember the first lines we heard from him before the start of the first series, including:

    “Distrusting me was the wisest thing you’ve done since you climbed off your horse”

    That line alone filled me with great expectations that book-LF was gonna come to life perfectly, as Aiden brought all the flair of the charecter to that one line. Unfortunately, D&D introduced Ros, sexposition etc, and none of the likeability of book-LF remains.

  715. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

    Gregory Kelton,

    Mark my words, Jamie kills Cersei (and then possibly himself).

    I really hope you’re wrong but you’re probably right. Sigh……

  716. RT
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    Arthur,

    I agree! I thought this was a great episode — especially climbing the wall. Great to see Jon, Ygritte, and the rest of the wildings! Looking forward to seeing more of Tormund! HAR!!

  717. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    Tar Kidho,

    didn’t the Wall seem extremely narrow at the top?

    No, for something of that height, it would have to narrow like that just in order to remain upright.

  718. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    Yellow Dog,

    Theon – and Theon alone – is responsible for the Red Wedding.

    Hunh?! Theon played a role in the events but ultimately the one that orders it is Tywin and the one that carries it out is Frey and the one who motivates Frey to comply with Tywin is Robb.

  719. Veltigar
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

    Darquemode:
    I absolutely hated the literal climb in the episode.

    It was like Michael Bey directed it. Natural disasters, bad overly emotional scoring, last-second rescues and then it is topped off with a kiss with a gorgeous vista as a backdrop. Bleh!

    I totally agree with you. This was the weakest episode in 3 whole seasons. Nothing felt right. The Tywin/QoT scene? Horrible and not nearly as good as the other QoT scenes. Tyrion telling Sansa? WTF, they are fucking making a saint out of him (I’m betting that they’ll have a long Tyrion Shae scene next episode just to piss me off even more). The Wall was cheesy as hell. Bran was boring. They butchered the BF character at Riverrun. They made a joke off the BwB (The books: we are the only honorable men, doing Ned Starks bidding and protecting the smallfolk as the Brotherhood we are. On the Show: We fight for the smallfolk but we have no problem selling our members. Hell, if you pay a little extra we’ll give you a certificate of authenticy “100% fucked over by the BwB”). LF is so fucking Obvious oin this show, I loved his speech (that was great) but it was all so out in the open. And Joffrey killing Ros was just such a fucking pussy way to cut her character. The only enjoyable parts where Theon and Ramsay (but more because the acting was superb), the Gilly-Sam scene and Jaime, Brienne and Roose (although that onewas to short).

    Normally, I jst laugh when I read the tweets of AngryGoTfan on the Twitter recap but this time I’ll chear for him and support him on every rant. #NOONEUNDERSTANDS

  720. Veltigar
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    I don’t know who wrote this episode but they deserve to be Ramsayfied. I demand more Brian Cogman. That guy has never failed us so far, he would never write the crap we’ve seen this episode.

  721. AM
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    shadowassassinbabby,

    Because Mel never knew that was Arya, she never mentioned her name. So therefore Mel can still have the prophecy!

  722. PatD
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    The armchair criticism of this show just slays me. When I even try to imagine the obstacles they have to overcome to bring this mammoth undertaking to the screen, it just boggles my mind.

    This was a tough part in the story with which to be burdened. Someone else thread put it really well by describing this episode as very setup-py. Yet, still they managed to include action and great acting. I love all the stuff beyond The Wall in this episode, because I appreciate how hard that stuff must be to recreate on a TV budget.

    And although the Theon torture scenes might be frustrating to many, I can honestly see a purpose to them. I also think the Gendry-being-supplanted-for-Edric Storm plot is actually very clever with lots of great potential. In the book, Edric appears almost out of nowhere and wasn’t one of Martin’s most fleshed out characters. We’ve become very attached and invested in one of Robert’s bastard’s stories: Gendry, and this just makes a whole lot more sense to me.

  723. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin,

    b) biological daughters born in wedlock, eldest first

    I think that is incorrect. Biological daughters born in wedlock are the King’s heir BUT they cannot rule on their own. They MUST marry someone and that man becomes the King, who is the true ruler. IF your statement were true, then a female child of Robert’s if all male heirs were dead could rule, take on a consort and rule just as Queen. But I don’t get the impression that something like that would EVER be allowed. Look at the current Queen of England. Her husband has a title but he is not the ruler. However in Westeros, whoever married the girl would be the ruler. Hope that makes sense.

  724. Michael Tschuertz
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

    tywin & olenna are sitting on a tree!

  725. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    A Storm of S-Words,

    Melisandre told Stannis she had a vision of someone with Kings blood so she must have seen where the BwB were.

  726. Maester Victor
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

    I realise I am in the minority but I LOVED Theon’s scenes. I always figured that Ros would end up in Qyburn’s dungeon eventually. We know from the books that they start out alive but maybe he can use a dead woman too? Ooooor this really is Esme’s curtain call?

  727. Darquemode
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    I agree with a lot, but not sure I agree about the BWoB.

    They were willing to sell off Arya in the books (and seem to be willing to do it on the TV series too), so I do not see it as too big of a difference to sell off Gendry. Yes there is a difference between a young girl and a blacksmith, granted. I just do not think it matters.

    To me though the BwoB, or at least Beric and Thoros, consider themselves in service to R’hllor. If their god (or his high priestess) has plans for Gendry’s royal blood, handing him over seems like something a devout follower would do.

    They are honorable men compared to most other men, but they are not Ned Stark honorable. They do what they need to in order to continue their war.

  728. bwar
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

    No strong Belwas? I’m quickly losing interest in this portion of Khalessi’s story. I really feel that her storyline struggles greatly from now until the end of ADWD. Some great scenes hopefully coming up over the rest of the season. I found this episode rather underwhelming. Looks like we might get expanded Brotherhood and Gendry storylines, maybe even a mellisandre story as well. Interested to see if the show starts drifting away from the books from this point forward.

  729. bearcatmark
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    Tar Kidho,

    But you have to think of what characters we saw Littlefinger working in the books…most of the time they were more naive characters, or people Littlefinger have to careful around. Hell when it was Sansa he let a ton spill, because he was in no risk doing so.

    In the show we get to see Littlefinger from different peoples view. With Ned Stark he was the same Littlefinger as the book, but with someone like Varys it makes no sense to be that. Varys knows him all too well, he knows his ambition. He is too good at playing the game. Littlefinger has to take a different tact with him.

    And again I am still convinced the move of giving Ros to Joffrey was not so much about his getting revenge on her, or showing up Varys (though he will play it as such), but instead to show the Tyrells what they risk in believing they can control Joffrey…ultimately I think this will lead to the plot of Joffrey’s life, creating the necessary chaos for Littlefinger to get Sansa out of Kings Landing (which was his plan all along). I think the show has brilliantly crafted it so Littlefinger had to adjust his plan for getting Sansa out and this was plan B.

  730. WildSeed
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp:
    Joey,

    I thought the scene was believable between their show incarnations. They need each other (Tywin understands this better than most) and they’re operating well above the reach of “foul rumors” and the potential for blackmail on those bases. Stuck in the same boat, so it seems in character for them to more or less get along. Showyn is a bit more humanized than Bookwyn. I can see him giving one of his few existing peers (the pillar of the house that seals the Lannisters’ royal claim) the passes he gave Olenna. He even basically levels with her on the matter of incest without confirming anything.

    Cogman or the exec producers mentioned that the script often written to
    reflect the strength of the actor in that particular role. In the scope of
    the show and/or episode, some actors may end up with pivotal scenes
    because of their commanding portrayal. Tywin and Olenna’s was a
    reasonable adaptation, for the actors commanding the plot. This strategy
    could backfire too, as viewers experienced endless Tywin scenes and jokes
    of a teleporting Littlefinger. This scene you’ve described is a welcomed change.

  731. Eric Niewohner
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

    Amazing the level of ridiculous nitpicking that goes in this forum. So much more enjoyable to read the non-reader thread. Being a reader myself I do like to hear other people’s impressions of the show who have read the books and most weeks I just comment on what I liked in the show and leave it at that but sometimes I feel compelled to respond to silly criticisms.

    First of all LF is an evil, manipulative, jerk in the books just as he is in the show. Of course they have to make it a little more obvious in the show because we only have 10 episodes and only so much time. In season one they let his monologues go on a bit too much but the last two seasons they have been much better and I loved his statement on chaos, just loved it. Where everyone else is afraid of chaos he sees it as an opportunity and not only that does things to create it so he can move up the ladder. It is well done in the show.

    It is hilarious to see people complaining that Ros is now dead since so many people hated her in the show but now that she is dead people complain, lol. I thought the montage as LF speaks was brilliant and the scene of Ros impaled by Joffrey’s crossbow bolts, shocking and effective.

    I really don’t mind the changes from the book I like the surprises they bring, Mel’s and Thoros scene was excellent and taking Gendry actually gives him a more interesting story arc than staying on as a blacksmith. We also got a great scene with Mel and Arya and her statement to Arya is obviously about the people that Arya will kill.

    I also saw someone complain about the Arya and Tywin scenes last season and that is just plain crazy. Those were outstanding scenes are you kidding me! QoT and Tywin was also very, very good.

    Also people complaining about characters who get cut who outside of being mentioned in the book have no role in the story whatsoever is just silly, Willas. They have to make cuts to tell the story in this format and quite frankly based on the way Book 5 went I am glad they are cutting stuff out as the weight of Martin’s too many story arcs has led to books 4 and 5 being inferior to SOS.

    I have said this every season D&D get a 95 for me, is it perfect, no, but it is the best show on television and one I never dreamt was possible. We are very lucky to be watching this show, very lucky.