Episode 26 – The Climb – Newbie Recap
By Winter Is Coming on in Recap.

Littlefinger

See the episode through fresh eyes by reading Oz of Thrones’ take on last night’s episode of Game of Thrones. If you yourself are a newbie, feel free to share your thoughts in the comments.

Spoiler note: The discussion in this post is primarily for non-book readers (book fans can discuss the show here). We ask all the series veterans to refrain from posting spoilers in the comments here, veiled or otherwise. This show is best viewed without knowing all the surprises beforehand, so please be respectful of your fellow fans. Thank you!

Oz of Thrones: Hello to all Sullied and Unsullied, and welcome to the non-book reader recap for Episode 26, brought to you by the self-proclaimed leader of the Un’s. This post is sponsored by Claw-Boot: Don’t Climb a Wall Without It. We are now embarking on the second half of Season 3, and wow, it seems to be flying by. By the way, thanks to all the cool feedback and song ideas that you Lords and Ladies sent me on the Halftime Show from last week. If you missed it, check it out here. Now, we have a good amount to cover, discuss, and speculate about. So let’s get on with it!

Remember: We are the Unsullied, non-book readers. Our motto: We ask questions we do NOT want answers to. Our Mission: To discuss and enjoy arguably the best show on television, without being spoiled on what may be coming next. To the Sullied: Join us in the comments, but please be respectful of our request. The vast majority of you are, and Oz appreciates you.

Sam and Gilly kick things off with a romantic fire and a sleeping newborn, and Gilly suggests that Sam might do well to purchase a copy of “Starting a Fire for Dummies.” We get to hear Sam sing a lullaby that was successful in putting the smallest Ozling to sleep after showing Gilly his dragon glass. I assume the glass will come into play at some point? Not much more going on with this scene other than they are obviously headed to the Wall. I kept waiting for Rast or a White Walker to jump out from behind a tree.

Osha and Meera have a rabbit skinning contest while Bran attempts to moderate the arguing between the two. Some will say he succeeded, while I believe it was Hodor who did the job when he said “Hodor.” Having sight apparently has side effects as Jojen appears to have some type of seizure. He tells the others he has seen Jon Snow, but he was on the wrong side of the wall.

The Wall: As Jon Snow and the Wildling prepare to climb the wall, Jon and Ygritte have a pivotal conversation about betrayal. Kit and Rose do these scenes beautifully, and I find myself wanting their scenes to just go on and on. The climb on the wall scene was absolutely awesome, and looked equally terrifying on screen just from the height alone. But when the damn thing broke apart and Orell cut the rope to save his own ass, I found myself on the edge of the couch. I had no expectation that Jon and Ygritte might die this episode, but the realism of the scene I thought was outstanding. It could have looked fake. It didn’t. At all.

Arya and the Red Woman: It seems the Red Woman does, in fact, know of Gendry as she shows up in the Riverlands to take him with her. As a non-book reader, I can’t explain how she knew, other than the fact that magic and sorcery are present. It doesn’t look coincidental now that Gendry ended up being with the Brotherhood, and they also coincidentally worship the Lord of Light. Melisandre looks into Arya’s eyes and sees her killing many and tells her that they will meet again. Why does Arya seem to lose everyone that she gets close to? And sadly, ArGenPie is officially dead.

Boy, or Karstark Boy, or Sadistic Liar? I wish I knew. After Boy makes Theon play the Pinky Poking game, Theon seemingly guesses where he is and who the Boy is. The boy admits that he is a Karstark. Now, here is where Sullieds will make fun of us, the Unsullied….. If Boy is a Karstark, then it would make sense that James Bond Bolton’s bastard had Theon to begin with, then Boy helped him escape so he could then turn around and kill the Bolton men in the woods. This would allow Boy to have control of the Theon situation as he does now without having to follow the rules of Bolton’s bastard. But then, Boy claims that he is lying about the whole thing, and resumes the Pinky game. So now, we appear to be back at square one. Ozzette then says this to me: “I am about over the Robb Thomas torturing Theon thing.” I agree. (I don’t want to be lonely no more, I don’t wanna have to pay for this….whoooaaaa). Oh, sorry. I can only hope that it is leading up to some sort of big reveal in the near future. A respectable amount of time has been given to this storyline, and we seem no further along now than we were at Episode 2.

The Frey Brothers: This meeting between the unknown sons of Walder Frey and Robb went a hell of a lot smoother than I had envisioned. Basically, the Frey’s will help Robb if they can have Harrenhall and Edmure will wed the 19 year old daughter of Walder. Take one for the team, Edmure! This deal seems to be done.

Bolton serves Jaime and Brienne a meal and discusses what will become of them. Bolton looks to be sending Jaime to King’s Landing after all in exchange for Jaime telling Tywin that he had nothing to do with the loss of his hand. And Brienne will not be accompanying him. I found it odd that the word treason came up a couple of times in this conversation, yet Bolton is contemplating sending Jaime back to King’s Landing to avoid being hunted down by the Lannisters later on for the maiming of Jaime. Wouldn’t that be treason in the eyes of Robb Stark? And what is to become of Brienne?

Classic conversation between Tywin and Grandma Lemon Cakes regarding the marriage of Loras and Cersei. Thorns stands her ground for a bit, but Tywin looks to be victorious in the end, as he usually is. I found the homosexual content in the conversation to be quite fitting considering the gay marriage issue going on right now in the United States (no political or moral arguments in the comments please, and thank you.)

Tyrion shows up to talk to Sansa about the arrangements as she and Shae discuss the Loras wedding. He tries to entice Shae to leave, but Sansa insists she stays, and then he drops the news. Later, we see Sansa crying and staring out at Littlefinger’s ship. Is it too late?

Speaking of Littlefinger, we are treated to another epic dialogue between he and Varys. This alone is worth the price of HBO for a month. At first, it escaped me that Littlefinger was referring to Ros. But then it hit me, right before the screen went to Joffrey. Ros gone. Sansa trapped. “The climb is all there is.”

Episode 306 Personal Awards
Favorite Scene: The entire sequence of wall scenes. But the last few scenes where Littlefinger’s voice was spoken over the footage of Joffrey and Ros and then Sansa was powerful as well.
Favorite Quote #1: “It’s you and me that matters to me and you. Don’t ever betray me, because I’ll cut your pretty cock off and wear it round me neck.” –Ygritte to Jon Snow (and Ozzette to Oz right after they got hitched).
Favorite Quote #2: “A sword swallower through and through.” -Olenna to Tywin in regards to Loras’ preferences.
Favorite Quote #3: “Jamie or not, I’m truly fucked.” -Tyrion to Cersei about his marriage predicament
Favorite Quote #4: The Littlefinger Climb series of quotes
Ow, That Shit Hurts Award: The peeling of Theon’s pinky like a banana….. “Cut it off! Cut it off!” Damn.

Overall Thoughts: I really enjoyed the pacing of this episode. To me, it didn’t feel like the scenes were as rushed as some of the earlier episodes when we sometimes seemed to jump from story to story only a minute or two in. The Ros scene with Joffrey was a shock, but did not give as much closure to the character of Ros as I would have liked to have seen. I am not saying I wanted to see Joffrey pull the trigger by any means. But as a viewer, we did have quite a bit of time invested in her character, and some type of buildup to her demise would have been a little more appropriate. Instead, Ros is all of a sudden, gone. Other than that, the episode was moving in a number of ways, most of which are mentioned above. The question of Jon’s loyalty to the Crows seems to be answered, as he and Ygritte conquered a dangerous climb together as they almost fell to their death. For that reason, and for the safety of his cock, I don’t see Jon betraying her.

What were your thoughts on this episode? Send me some feedback, as I could be way off base with some of my assumptions. AND no spoilers from the good Sullied! Have a great week, and I will see you Friday with Looking Forward Ep. 27. Until then, be nice to each other, and may there be peace in your realm. -Oz


188 Comments

  1. Naten53
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    HODOR!

  2. Vid
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    Littlefinger for the win!

  3. Reek
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    Any episode with dat Giantsbane is a good episode

  4. M
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    I’m kind of glad they didn’t show Ros’s actual death. I’m not saying showing it was unnecessary, but it got the point across that no one is safe.

  5. Turncloak
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    Awesome Littlefinger monologue! Chaos is a ladder

  6. Werd
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Interesting. The Atlantic’s newbie liked it too, while the ones who’ve read the book were more mixed / said it was changed a lot from the source material: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/05/-i-game-of-thrones-i-ditches-the-book/275557/

  7. Jacobos47
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    I think there was an intentional clue in this episode which tells who might torture Theon. And it didn’t appear in Theon scenes but a little bit later.

    The only problem for non-readers is that there no clues that can reveal why “the boy” is doing that and how it fits the plot.

  8. Unbesmirched
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    I am shocked about Ros. I thought she would go further. And I feel really bad for Sansa. She said no to join Littlefinger so she could marry Loras, and finds out that she has to marry Tyrion too late to change her mind about going on the boat :(‘

    I really loved all the scenes with Arya and Melisandre in the Brotherhood camp though. The Valyrian language is wicked! And it looks like Arya is going to kill at least three more people. I wonder what will happen with Gendry?

    And the Karstark who is torturing Theon is really really creepy! He has crazy eyes all the way!

  9. Alex
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    You forgot to mention that in this episode we also learned that it was actually Joffrey who tried to have Tyrion killed in the Battle of the Blackwater, not Cersei. Now what I’m wondering about is did Varys know this when he told Tyrion that it was his sister who wanted him killed? I don’t see what purpose Varys would have to lie about that…

    And I don’t know about you guys, but I felt terrible after seeing Sansa towards the end of the episode. I wonder if she knew what Littlefinger actually had planned for her? The poor girl just can’t seem to catch a break!

    Great review as usual!

  10. Evil erik
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Anyone notice ser loras said ‘French sleeves’ when describing the dress to sansa. What region of Westeros is France in? No region loras. It doesnt exist in your world.

  11. Wolfman27
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Unbesmirched: And the Karstark who is torturing Theon is really really creepy! He has crazy eyes all the way!

    He isn’t a Karstark. After saying he was, he told Theon he was lying about the whole thing.

  12. Wolfman27
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    Evil erik: Anyone notice ser loras said ‘French sleeves’ when describing the dress to sansa. What region of Westeros is France in? No region loras. It doesnt exist in your world.

    My thoughts at first too, but he says “fringed” sleeves, not French.

  13. WompWomp
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    I find myself less and less concerned about book deviations. Future seasons may need to streamline to keep up the wonderful clip the show’s enjoying now. It’s a joy just to get lost in the show this week. Every nook and cranny of the production just exudes this new confidence.

  14. Unbesmirched
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    Wolfman27: He isn’t a Karstark. After saying he was, he told Theon he was lying about the whole thing.

    He didn’t say he lied about the entire thing, he just said that he was a liar. I took as “I lied about you winning the game if you guessed right about who I am”, forcing Theon to ask him to cut off his finger to end the game.

  15. DaenyB
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Evil erik,

    I initially thought that he said French too but apparently he said ‘fringed sleeves’, somebody would have been in hot water if French had gotten all the way through the writing/shooting/editing stages!

  16. saark
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Alex:
    I’m wondering about is did Varysknow this when he told Tyrion that it was his sister who wanted him killed? I don’t see what purpose Varys would have to lie about that…

    GRRM loves him some unreliable narrators. Maybe Varys truly thought it was Cersei. Maybe he had no clue but wanted to maintain his aura of all-knowingness in front of Tyrion. Or maybe Cersei actually did it after all (she didn’t ever explicitly confirm or deny it).

  17. Thomas
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    Iwan Rheon’s doing a fantastic job. What a different role from his part in Misfits, too!

  18. greg
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    Theons storyline is pissing me off. Especially if Boy turns out to be who the majority of us have speculated, it’s not gonna be worth the screen time to me. Although some of my friends who are more causal watchers have absolutely no idea who it could be. Besides that, I thought it was a pretty good episode, but not close to the last two weeks.

  19. MRR
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    No love for Roose Bolton’s “overplayed your… position” line? I thought that was the best line of the episode by far.

  20. Elk
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    Evil erik:
    Anyone notice ser loras said ‘French sleeves’ when describing the dress to sansa. What region of Westeros is France in? No region loras. It doesnt exist in your world.

    Fringe sleeves?

  21. Naten53
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    I think they could have done a better Joffery scene, one that was more disturbing but not showing him killing Ros.

    I think they could have had Margery holding the crossbow, Joffery behind her. A look of terror on her face, a creepy smile on his. (since he is behind her, he can’t see her reaction but if it wasn’t for those pesky cameramen always following them around…)

  22. Naten53
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    MRR: No love for Roose Bolton’s “overplayed your… position” line? I thought that was the best line of the episode by far.

    The best line was by Hodor.

  23. Naten53
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    Alex: You forgot to mention that in this episode we also learned that it was actually Joffrey who tried to have Tyrion killed in the Battle of the Blackwater, not Cersei. Now what I’m wondering about is did Varys know this when he told Tyrion that it was his sister who wanted him killed? I don’t see what purpose Varys would have to lie about that…

    Did we learn that? Cersei didn’t say anything and let Tyrion asume it was Joffery. Similar to last season when he asks her about killing Robert’s basterds and she doesn’t say anything and he thinks it Joffery then too.

    The only thing we do know is that two people have the power to order the kingsgaurd or that he acted alone because Tyrion treated him poorly in season 2.

    Or is this a sinester plot like the conversation that Varys had with Tyrion in season 2 about two great men and a sell sword, who do they listen to and kill the other?

  24. James
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    Unbesmirched,

    No.. he was lying about the whole thing.

  25. Gabriel
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    “If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.”

  26. Shawn Cooke
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    Ros’ death had no closure, it’s true. She was there, and then suddenly she was gone. And that’s just what death is like. One thing that the show (and the source material on which it is based) has consistently done is to kill a character while there was still more story to tell, without the comfort of closure as a sop to the viewer or reader.

  27. Alex
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    Naten53,

    That is a good point, but after thinking about it (once we were provided with this information) I would like to believe that Cersei would be clever enough to kill Tyrion in a more foolproof way, provided that she truly wanted him dead. I can totally see Joffrey doing something reckless as ordering his own kingsguard to kill Tyrion in the middle of battle with possible witnesses around.

    Plus I don’t think Cersei is so cold hearted that she would want to kill her own brother, even if she does hate him.

  28. Rogue Agent
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    I don’t know how this will develop or if it’s just extra info, but I liked how the Theon scene gave me a few details like Last Hearth = Umber. And other stuff. Just info drops like that are cool, I think. Theon’s scenes feel like a bone-chilling mystery and Jon’s scenes feel like an adventure. Love the different feels of scenes.

  29. Andy Gavin (@asgavin
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    The show is arguably less effective than the books with the POV characters, notably Jon, and strips some of the minor characters to the bone (like the Mountain). However, it consistently fleshes out the middling and borderline POV characters like Robb, Cersei, Varys, Littlefinger, Shae, Theon, Marg, and Joff. This episode really shows that off as it has a lot less action, but lays on the characterization thick to great effect. There is also more reoccurring thematic motives than usual, focusing on couples and marriage in particular. Good fun and as always, my detailed thoughts on the episode can be found on my blog.

  30. Deez
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    %100 agree, Theon’s scenes are getting annoying, seems like their dragging it out, it’s not that interesting and doesn’t even seem like a major piece of the picture.

    Bolton sending Jaime back but not Brienne doesn’t make sense, it seems like he would send Jaime because he’s trying to get in good with Tywin and abandon the sinking ship that is Rob’s war. But if that’s the case why keep Brienne?

  31. Jen
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    It makes me sad that the unsullied don’t seem to like my favorite parts :( i.e. Theon. I am just loving what they are doing. I guess being “in” on the “secret” and knowing all the details from the books makes all the difference.

  32. mellowjohn
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    “…showing Gilly his dragonglass.”
    is that like “hiking the Appalachian Trail”?

  33. Anterograde
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    I’m getting pretty tired of Theon’s scenes.

    The acting is great, the dialogue is well done, showing us that “the Boy” is sadistic and perhaps a little deranged is cool…but do we really need so much screen time devoted to it?

    I just hope the next time these 2 are on screen, we get some kind of actual payoff. Otherwise it’s Dany sitting in the Red Wastes doing nothing all over again.

    ————————————————

    Also, is it confirmed that Baelish’s ship has sailed? Wasn’t it moored in the same place when Littlefinger was initially telling Sansa about his plan?

    Given what we know about Baelish, is this really even a bad thing o.O?

  34. Nagga's Kin
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    Interesting tidbits on the Red Priesthood today:

    a) They are fluent in High Valyrian. The subtitles spelled the Red God’s name in that language as R’hollr. I think Thoros pronounced it something like Raholler, so the apostrophe is not a glottal stop.

    b) There is a High Priest (cp. pope/patriarch) somewhere (in Essos?) that both of them have had direct interactions with. This suggests the faith has a rather flat hierarchical organization. However, Thoros and Mel had apparently never met before.

    c) This High Priest had ordered Thoros of Myr to Westeros so he would convert Robert Baratheon to the Red God (and by extension, the realm). Given that Jorah and Barristan talked about Thoros of Myr’s exploits during the siege of Pyke during Balon Greyjoy’s rebellion against Ned Stark, that would be 15-20 years ago. However, after arriving in Westeros, Thoros lost his religion and failed in his mission.

    d) He only rediscovered his faith after Beric Dandarrion was resurrected the first time before his very eyes. Surprisingly, Melisandre wasn’t fazed by the resurrections as such but rather that Thoros was able to perform them even though he shouldn’t be. Presumably, his rank in the organization is pretty low (cp. priest), with Mel higher up (cp. bishop, though no explicit titles are given). Moreover, Mel is incredulous when Thoros tells her Beric’s been resurrected six times – apparently, that’s unheard of. This makes me wonder if there’s something special about Beric that we don’t know about yet or if Thoros has an ace up his sleeve he didn’t tell Mel about.

    e) Melisandre was rather interested in the afterlife, which Beric assured her consisted of nothing but darkness. Perhaps this is an important theological data point for her faith.

    f) Chances are, Mel was sent to Westeros for much the same reason as Thoros: to convert the continent to the Red Faith. If so, she doesn’t believe Stannis is some sort of messiah at all – she was just buttering him up to do her bidding. He appears to have been picked because he’s a psychologically easy mark and actually has a legal claim to the throne.

    g) Were any other Red Priests sent to Westeros? What’s the High Priest’s backup plan if Mel fails, too?

  35. sansa
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    Jen:
    It makes me sad that the unsullied don’t seem to like my favorite parts :( i.e. Theon. I am just loving what they are doing. I guess being “in” on the “secret” and knowing all the details from the books makes all the difference.

    That’s just it. Theon’s arc contains some “nudge nudge, wink wink” moments for the book readers, but is otherwise utterly repetitive. Torture, torture, torture. Thus only books readers can enjoy it and even there opinion is divided. I’m a reader and I love the acting in these scenes, but I still think way too much time is being wasted on it.

    Oz, keep up the good work! My favourite part of the GOT week is reading your recap and seeing what all the unsullied think. I’m especially surprised that you seem to prefer this episode to previous ones wrt pacing and such. I think (and lots of people over at westeros.org seem to agree) that it’s the weakest episode of the season so far and I admit that at least part of it is all the book deviations, especially cause it came right after episode 5, which was as true to the books as I could ever wish for and thus amazing imo. I guess I’m a bit of a purist, but you provided me with this wonderful fresh angel and made me appreciate this episode a lot more. I was feeling really disappointed and now thanks to you, I’m seeing it all in a totally new light :)

  36. Nagga's Kin
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    No info on how Mel found out about Gendry’s existence, parentage or whereabouts. Presumably, her flames told her. It’s debatable whether Beric and Thoros really sold Gendry like a slave or merely heeded the call of a higher power while taking receipt of a generous campaign finance contribution. Ethics schmethics. When all this is over, maybe they should run for Congress ;^)

    In parting, Mel told Arya that when she looked in the girl’s eyes, she saw a darkeness out of which blue, green and brown eyes were looking back at here. And the she added, ominously, “eyes you will shut forever”.

    Does that refer to (specific) people on Arya’s kill list or, is it a prediction that Arya will cross the Narrow Sea to become what Jaqen H’ghar already is? Either way, she piqued Mel’s interest.

    Note: blue, green and brown covers the eye colors of essentially the entire population, so we can’t read anything into that. I love how this show manages to tease us with cryptic ambiguities!

  37. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    Jacobos47,

    there no clues that can reveal why “the boy” is doing that and how it fits the plot

    The Boy says in the scene he is torturing Theon because he enjoys it

  38. Adria
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin,
    The Lord of Light is called R’hllor not R’hollr. That extra ‘o’ was a mistake in the subtitling. Thoros says something like ruh-LOR in the episode, as has Melissandre in previous eps. He ain’t no Ra-holler back god.

  39. Oz of Thrones
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    sansa,

    Thanks Sansa….. glad you enjoy it! This was not the strongest episode by any means, and I knew there would be many who might categorize it as “the worst this season” or “dull at times.” For me, it was a chance to slow down a bit and take in some character depth a well as some dramatic dialogue without the blood and guts. It’s like I tell some of my buddies…. They can’t all be Blackwater.

    In terms of Theon, it is hard to get perspective as a non-book reader as to the importance of his story line this season. I think the question now to most of us who just watch the show is, when we do find out who this is, is the reveal itself going to be enough to justify all of the time spent this season on Theon’s torture? Or will there be more to it? Let’s hope there is.

  40. Rygar
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    Gilly is hot.

  41. MartinJF
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    I love the Theon seens, but I’ve read the books, so that might have something to do with it. I think, as some others have mentioned, that those scenes are there just for the readers.

  42. Adria
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    As a book reader I loved this episode. I agree that it was a nice chance to slow things down. Not every episode can have its “Dracarys” moments. I really like the Theon scenes, but I do agree that this episode seemed to be treading water rather than moving forward. I was hoping for a definitve reveal this episode, and then it didn’t happen. I can definitely see why many viewers are growing impatient. I hope the final reveal is worth the wait and I already know what the reveal is.

  43. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    Deez,

    But if that’s the case why keep Brienne?

    Maybe Roose is trying to play both sides for now. He’s openly on Robb’s side so he has to do something to continue to look like his remains there. However, he probably sees that Robb is losing the overall war (which Robb himself admitted) and now Roose is making a peace offering to Tywin to hedge his bets.

  44. Davy
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    Adria:
    Oz of Thrones,

    As a book reader I loved this episode. I agree that it was a nice chance to slow things down. Not every episode can have its “Dracarys” moments. I really like the Theon scenes, but I do agree that this episode seemed to be treading water rather than moving forward. I was hoping for a definitve reveal this episode, and then it didn’t happen. I can definitely see why many viewers are growing impatient. I hope the final reveal is worth the wait and I already know what the reveal is.

    They are keeping the reveal away for a reason I think. Even I as book reader needed 3-4 episodes before I knew who Boy was and I think they will want to keep on this story for some more. I do think we will see his reveal, but not earlier then episode 9 or 10.

  45. Mimsy
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    Deez: Bolton sending Jaime back but not Brienne doesn’t make sense, it seems like he would send Jaime because he’s trying to get in good with Tywin and abandon the sinking ship that is Rob’s war. But if that’s the case why keep Brienne?

    It looks like you answered your own question. Why keep Brienne? Because, like Lady Stark, Brienne made a treasonous act against Robb and is now a prisoner. Bolton has an excuse to keep her. By sending Jaime on his way, Bolton appears to be playing both sides or at least sitting on the fence.. we’ll see what happens.

  46. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    MartinJF,

    I disagree. D&D have very few wasted lines, with the exception of the Podrick joke, and Theon has been given quite a few scenes this season. It has to mean that Theon has an important role to play down the road. If it turns out that he doesn’t then I will agree that it was just a sop to the readers. But I want to wait and see.

  47. Adria
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    I loved the horrible pink dress that Roose Bolton found for Brienne. I’m sure she did NOT find it “appropriate.”

  48. Oz of Thrones
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    Davy,

    This brings me to another question of the Unsullied (and maybe the Sullied too)….. if we don’t get the reveal until 9 or 10, do you think we will continue to see short clips of Theon torture scenes until then?

  49. valyrian
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    I’m a book reader and I love Theon’s scenes too, but I was disappointed too when the final answer wasn’t given in this episode. I feel these scenes could be better if this mystery got out of the way :( btw, great recap Oz! It got even better in this format, with your thoughts on every section of the episode.

  50. sansa
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    Yeah, I know what you mean. I actually prefer the episodes with more dialogue and less action, but the characterization of some of my favourite characters is sometimes just so off on the show that it takes away from my enjoyment. But after reading this recap, I watched the more memorable scenes again, trying to think how they would look to a show-only viewer and I learned to appreciate what we do learn about the show characters, instead of focusing on how they differ from their book counterparts, so thanks for that, a lot! Sometimes I wish I was an unsullied, so I could just enjoy the show for what it is. Le sigh!

    As for Theon, I’m saying nothing.

    Question to all unsullied: Based on what you’ve seen so far, which house/character do you like the most and who/why do you think will end up on the iron throne in the end? This is totally random, so feel free to ignore me if you think that it doesn’t belong to this thread. I just like hanging out here and learning what you guys think, lol :D

  51. Adria
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    Davy: They are keeping the reveal away for a reason I think. Even I as book reader needed 3-4 episodes before I knew who Boy was and I think they will want to keep on this story for some more. I do think we will see his reveal, but not earlier then episode 9 or 10.

    They might be keeping the reveal away for a reason, but I feel (and many viewers, especially unsullied agree) that not enough is happening in the interim to keep that story interesting. I loved the scenes with Iwan and Alfie this ep, but I can see how it can come across as more of the same. Last week we learned that the boy is sick and twisted and we don’t know who he is. This week we learned the boy is sick and twisted and we don’t know who he is. At least last week we also learned that Theon has a lot of regrets.

  52. Peter
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    Anterograde: Also, is it confirmed that Baelish’s ship has sailed? Wasn’t it moored in the same place when Littlefinger was initially telling Sansa about his plan?Given what we know about Baelish, is this really even a bad thing o.O?

    A ship at anchor would not have its sails on full display catching the wind.

  53. sansa
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    valyrian:
    I’m a book reader and I love Theon’s scenes too, but I was disappointed too when the final answer wasn’t given in this episode. I feel these scenes could be better if this mystery got out of the way :( btw, great recap Oz! It got even better in this format, with your thoughts on every section of the episode.

    I think you nailed it! If we knew who was doing this people could still speculate on why. Trying to figure out who that guy is is getting old, most of my non-reader friends have solved it already.

  54. Oz of Thrones
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

    valyrian,

    Thanks valyrian! When I first began writing the recaps, I felt as if my primary function was to do a detailed write-up of the Episode. Everyone here at WiC has always been very positive of my columns. But one of the comments after my first recap that I really paid attention to was something along the lines of this: “we don’t need a synopsis; we all watched it.” A very true statement, and one that I keep in mind now for every recap.

    Either way, I am always trying to improve. And I always appreciate feedback.

  55. Davy
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones:
    Davy,

    This brings me to another question of the Unsullied (and maybe the Sullied too)….. if we don’t get the reveal until 9 or 10, do you think we will continue to see short clips of Theon torture scenes until then?

    What I can say without spoiling. I do not know (and no reader will know). These scenes are invented by the show as Theon went missing from book 3 (and thus would not have appeared this season) and are built on hints that were given in book 3 4 and 5. What is known, it will happen next episode again as seen in the previews.

    Edit : changed my post, I thought it was too spoiling at first.

  56. mags giantsbabe
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    HBO Connect has a question and answer session with Kit Harington. Fans can submit questions they want him to answer. I don’t know if questions can still be posted, but you can go vote for the best questions and HBO will also choose the best ones to ask him:

  57. Adria
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones:
    valyrian,

    Thanks valyrian!When I first began writing the recaps, I felt as if my primary function was to do a detailed write-up of the Episode.Everyone here at WiC has always been very positive of my columns.But one of the comments after my first recap that I really paid attention to was something along the lines of this:“we don’t need a synopsis; we all watched it.”A very true statement, and one that I keep in mind now for every recap.

    Either way, I am always trying to improve.And I always appreciate feedback.

    I wish more reviewers would take that to heart. I really enjoy your recaps, but so many recappers elsewhere simply regurgitate an extensive summary of what happened in the episode. I find those so frustrating to read. I want to hear what people think about the show!

  58. Davy
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    Adria: They might be keeping the reveal away for a reason, but I feel (and many viewers, especially unsullied agree) that not enough is happening in the interim to keep that story interesting. I loved the scenes with Iwan and Alfie this ep, but I can see how it can come across as more of the same. Last week we learned that the boy is sick and twisted and we don’t know who he is. This week we learned the boy is sick and twisted and we don’t know who he is. At least last week we also learned that Theon has a lot of regrets.

    I think it is also quite hard to say why it is happening this way. It will seem logical at the end…. I think. But it has its purpose, they aren’t adding scenes for no reason, although I myself like these scenes as I had a view of them in my head and I like to see how they work out on screen.

  59. Gregory Kelton
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    As a sullied, I’ll keep my post brief. I agree with Oz about the length of time we’ve spent on the Theon storyline. It’s past time to do something more with it.

  60. 3eyes
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    S&G – the look on Gilly’s face as she realizes that she TWO children to look after. At least Sam had the presence of mind to stash a Dragonstone spearhead in his cloak (where is the rest of the cache?).
    O&M – is there a Osha/Meera buddy arc in the making, a la Brienne/Jamie?
    The Wall – I just can’t.
    A&Red Woman – so Arya may convert after all. The Red Woman may even re-connect her with Jaquen. Oh Gendry, that which I so profoundly feared has come to pass. Just one more look at his naked torso, that’s all I ask.
    Boy – seems to have been well schooled by his father, and no doubt has a healthy enough fear of him to share the information re: the Stark boys without delay. In spite of all he’s done, I feel sorry for Theon.
    Freys – those hats. A Pythonesque device to distract we unsullied from noticing how sinister they truly are. I’d rather face the Stone Crows.
    Bolton – while Boy is the zealous pupil, we see the Master at work, toying with Jamie and Brienne. I don’t think Jamie is going anywhere, but he and Brienne will be separated and worked on individually. What dark thing is it in me that is attracted to this man?
    QoT & Tywin – my Lord wears black leather to make it plain that he is the Dominant in this relationship, and the QoT finally meets a man who doesn’t disappoint her.
    LF&V – So LF has been playing the long game and got one over on Varys.
    MIA – the powerful foreign friend with whom Varys was plotting in S1, and who found the Dragon eggs for Dany. Alliser Thorne, will he ever make it to KL with the Wight hand and sound the alarm? The Silent Sisters, creepy cool and mysterious, hoping they will turn up in the background again before too long.

  61. ngyoun
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    Why does everyone think that Little Finger is gone. Isn’t his ship still hanging out in the same place it was when he first showed Sansa? Maybe now she will try to hitch a ride. The only person that knows LF’s proposal to sneak Sansa out of King’s Landing, now that Ros is dead, is Varys. I don’t think she told Shae.

    Also…Isn’t it pretty obvious that “Boy” is a Bolton? They have Theon strung up exactly like the Bolton sigil of a Flayed Man. Plus he is flaying Theon’s pinky.

  62. Mas informacion
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    very good episode!

  63. Gregory Kelton
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    Is there a way to flag someone’s comment for containing spoilers, so that mods can delete it quicker?

  64. Gregory Kelton
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    ngyoun:
    Why does everyone think that Little Finger is gone.Isn’t his ship still hanging out in the same place it was when he first showed Sansa?Maybe now she will try to hitch a ride.The only person that knows LF’s proposal to sneak Sansa out of King’s Landing, now that Ros is dead, is Varys.I don’t think she told Shae.

    Also…Isn’t it pretty obvious that “Boy” is a Bolton?They have Theon strung up exactly like the Bolton sigil of a Flayed Man.Plus he is flaying Theon’s pinky.

    I dunno if he’s gone or not, but the sails were completely unfurled, which I think implies it’s actually sailing and not just anchored.

  65. Adria
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    Andrew,

    Huh? There aren’t any definite spoilers there. I think 3eyes is talking about the Red Woman.

  66. Emilia lover
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    Still waiting for a new Emilia nude scene. Realy, where is all the nudity this season?

  67. Adria
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    Gregory Kelton,

    And now it’s been deleted and there weren’t actually any spoilers in it. Everyone jumped to the conclusion that RW stood for something other than Red Woman. I thought 3eyes had some good points. I’d totally forgotten about Ser Alliser and the wight hand. Also Osha/Meera buddies would be great to see.

  68. Lyanna_Targaryen
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    Oz, I find myself coming to your recaps more often than the reader recaps – so many are being so nitpicking and crying “WORST ______ EVAR!!!!” about every little change. I’ve read the books twice over, but I see the novels and the series as two difference creatures, and love them both in different ways. They cannot be as one. All of the henpecking was a seriously a buzzkill.

    So many hilarious lines in this episode, which offset the brutality ( poor Ros and poor Theon – I know he may deserve it, but that doesn’t meant I want to SEE Boy removing his fingermeat).

    Best lines:
    Varys, on the Iron Throne: “It’s the Lysa Arryn of chairs.” because Lysa Arryn is THE WORST.

    Olenna, on Loras: ” a sword swallower through and through.” WINNING.

    Roose Bolton, to Jaime: “You don’t want to overplay your……… position.” I see what you did there, James Bolton!

    The pissing contest between Meera and Osha was funny too.

    Charles Dance (Tywin) is the man. Not a nice man, but still, THE man.

    Poor Sansa. Her eyes were as red as her hair.

  69. Icy Fingers
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    Sullied, so I’ll keep it brief. I think that by know everyone has a pretty good idea who’s messing with Theon and they should have said it then. Jaime Lannister’s storyline didn’t suffer for him not being in too many season 2 episodes and I kinda wish the show runners would go the same route here. Otherwise I loved this episode and I love Unsullied reviews since I like knowing what people think without any preconceived ideas of what should be

  70. Oz of Thrones
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    greg,

    I had to step away for a bit and must have missed it. Did 3eyes throw out some spoilery?

  71. Unbesmirched
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    Littlefinger’s boat is slowly sailing towards King’s Landing when we first see it. Then in this episode, we clearly see it sailing away.

  72. Arianna
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Jacobos47,

    I completely agree with you! I wish my unsullied friends would catch on without me having to point it out! Alas, they have not!

  73. Ours is the Fury
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    No. I checked it out. It was a misinterpretation on some commenters’ part. There are no spoilers in here. It’s fine.

  74. Adria
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    No, they didn’t. There awas a misunderstanding that looked spoilery to many sullied but it looks like someone has clarified things.

  75. Oz of Thrones
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    Many thanks, kind sir.

  76. Unbesmirched
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    I don’t get why “You don’t want to overplay your……… position.” is such a great quote. He’s just reminding Jaime that he’s still a captive, right?

  77. Lyanna_Targaryen
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    Oh, and another thing – Loras did NOT say French, he said, fringe.

  78. Oz of Thrones
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    Adria,

    And you also, Adria.

  79. Trent
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    A few Unsullied thoughts…
    - I was a little disappointed to the apparent “resolution” of the Lord Frey thing. Cat makes him out to be this total a-hole (“do not trust Walder Frey!”) but after he is completely disrespected and ignored by Robb, he apparently is content to settle for some buffoon as a replacement to The King in the North. (Yes, and Harrenhal the oft-promised, oft-attacked ruins of Harrenhal). And Robb gets off scott free. Seemed a tad cheap.
    - I got the impression that Cersei didn’t answer the question about Who Framed Tyrion Lannister, and that Tyrion essentially pretendend to believe that it must’ve been Joffrey. What intrigues me is if he’d even be capable of killing his sister in retribution (or having her killed).
    - Another line I loved– Jamie’s “watching me fail at dinner” quip.
    - I thought Jamie “insisted” that Brienne be allowed to come to KL…not sure if we got a resolution on that.
    - A few weeks ago I’d wondered about Shae’s seemingly over-the-top reaction to Tyrion’s innocent-seeming remarks about Sansa being “a beautiful girl,” but I guess now it makes sense. I just can’t see how she’d feel threatened by a 15-year-old (or whatever). I do wish we’d been able to watch Tyrion’s reveal to the ladies. Awkward does not begin to describe…
    - I was surprised last week with Ygritte’s “I never want to leave this cave, Jon Snow.” Doesn’t seem like the kind of girl who would say that kind of thing so soon– to be so vulnerable so soon.
    - I thought that maybe Jon or at least Ygritte would be a bit more…careful…once they got to the top of the wall. You have to think that Orell has a motive to kill them now– now that Jon/Ygritte have a motive to kill Orell that is. I’d tread carefully if I were them. Nice wall shot, though. :-)
    - Have to think that the dragonglass/obsidian is going to prove important given the “gratuitous” reminder of it and that Sam had some. Seems he’s going to need it all out there alone…
    - I’m with Oz– how Melissandre knew about Gendry– let alone how to find him…I hope there’s some kind of explanation. Obviously there’s the whole Lord of Light connection…I guess she saw it in the flames, blah blah. Funny how so many stories can freely use magic as a handy plot device, but we feel cheated when it happens in GoT because it appears to be fairly uncommon– if indeed magic was even at play here.
    - I love Tywin/Dance and also Littlefinger/Gillen. What fantastic characters and portrayals thereof. “Bad guys” who have realistic motives that I almost want to root for. Perfectly ruthless and efficient.
    - Like other Unsullied, kind of meh on the Theon arc. I guess the Sullied are telling us there’s some amazing reveal in the works (which is kind of a spoiler in itself I guess), so I guess I’ll just keep watching and waiting…
    - Looking forward to more of Bran and the Gang. I wonder if Jojen’s seizures happen every time he has a Sight or maybe he’s just epileptic. I don’t seem to recall Bran having seizures.

  80. Oz of Thrones
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    Lyanna_Targaryen:

    Best lines:
    Varys, on the Iron Throne: “It’s the Lysa Arryn of chairs.” because Lysa Arryn is THE WORST.

    I agree….. hilarious. Are we going to see the crazy Lysa this season?

  81. Adria
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    Unbesmirched,

    Jaime overplayed his position with Locke and it got his hand cut off. Roose is reminding him of this. I could almost hear the zing of a cymbal when Roose said that line.

  82. Gregory Kelton
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    Unbesmirched:
    I don’t get why “You don’t want to overplay your……… position.” is such a great quote. He’s just reminding Jaime that he’s still a captive, right?

    It’s a common quote to say “overplay your hand” as in a POKER hand. The fact that he paused on the word and then chose “position” was hilarious.

  83. Dogmayor
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    Trent,

    That ‘buffoon’ is Edmure Tully, Lord Paramount of the Riverlands and uncle to the King in the North.

  84. Adria
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Gregory Kelton
    I’m not a poker player and missed that reference. The line is even more hilarious now. :D

  85. A wildling Bastard
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    Naten53,

    Hodor gets a 2 second screen time yet he steals the show ..

  86. Dana
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    sansa,

    I am an unsullied and to answer your random question – My favorite is Dany – I love how she took herself from being a weak pushover (when she was with her brother) to where she is now (with the help of Kal drogo of course). She is fearless and powerful and gorgeous as well! I love the starks but from what I feel so far, the starks arent after the iron throne – they just want revenge.

  87. Winter Is Coming
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    Book readers, if you feel the need to jump in here and offer your two cents on what you think about the story… don’t. Just don’t. I know you mean well but you are spoiling the Unsullied with your “well that’s not how it happened in the book” talk. Any posts that reference the book will be deleted.

    Also, if you suspect someone has posted a spoilery comment, scroll on past the comment box, click on the raven and send us a message about it. DON’T reply to it and/or quote it in this thread and talk about how it is a spoiler. Because if it wasn’t a spoiler already, you’ve just made it one!

    We do our best to moderate these comments, but it would make our job a LOT easier if the book readers just never commented in here at all. And really, it shouldn’t be that hard, you have another thread wholly devoted to talking about the books. Please use that one. Thank you.

  88. Nagga's Kin
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    Unbesmirched: I don’t get why “You don’t want to overplay your……… position.” is such a great quote. He’s just reminding Jaime that he’s still a captive, right?

    The idiom is “to overplay your hand“, originally in reference to card games. Bolton realizes too late that saying that would be rude, so he changes the last word.

  89. MRR
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    Adria: position

    The idiom has its origins in card games, but it’s a very common saying.

  90. Trent
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    Dogmayor:
    Trent,
    That ‘buffoon’ is Edmure Tully, Lord Paramount of the Riverlands and uncle to the King in the North.

    Okay, fair enough, he’s an important guy…but it still seemed like Robb got off easy. And really– getting the Lord Paramount for his daughter is just a replacement betrothal for letting him use the bridge– it should be on top of anything he receives for giving him his army. So really all he got was a cursed ruin.

    I also thought it odd last episode that Robb didn’t even seem to think that asking Frey for his allegiance (and army) was a bit…brazen…given that he’d recently given Frey a big F-U and broken his word by marrying Talisa– which BTW I also thought was a bit abrupt…they’d known each other how long? Did they have to get married given that it’s breaking his solemn word to Lord Frey?

  91. MRR
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin: The idiom is “to overplay your hand“, originally in reference to card games. Bolton realizes too late that saying that would be rude, so he changes the last word.

    Or, rather than t

    Nagga’s Kin: Bolton realizes too late that saying that would be rude, so he changes the last word.

    I think it was an intentional insult—along with putting Brienne in that pink dress and saying that it’s more appropriate for her than her armor—and not an accidental mistake. I think Roose is trying to be somewhat authoritative here: I’m letting you go, but only on my conditions.

  92. Unbesmirched
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    Thanks. Also not a poker player so that went right over my head.

    Although Orell obviously wanted Jon dead and was willing to sacrifice Ygritte to off him, he will be able defend his choice by claiming it was the only way for he and Tormund to survive. Although Jon will definitely be pissed, I don’t think he will be able to kill Orell in cold blood.

    Btw, I also hate how book readers come to this thread and talk about the books. This is the newbie recap, which means we don’t care about the books. Honestly, I’d rather guess the wrong theory about something than having someone “correct me” because they’ve read the books.

  93. LorenzoD
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin: The idiom is “to overplay your hand“, originally in reference to card games. Bolton realizes too late that saying that would be rude, so he changes the last word.

    I don’t believe for one second that he didn’t say it on purpose to provoke Jaime and, well, make us laugh!

  94. Oz of Thrones
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    Trent: Okay, fair enough, he’s an important guy…but it still seemed like Robb got off easy.And really– getting the Lord Paramount for his daughter is just a replacement betrothal for letting him use the bridge– it should be on top of anything he receives for giving him his army.So really all he got was a cursed ruin.

    I also thought it odd last episode that Robb didn’t even seem to think that asking Frey for his allegiance (and army) was a bit…brazen…given that he’d recently given Frey a big F-U and broken his word by marrying Talisa– which BTW I also thought was a bit abrupt…they’d known each other how long?Did they have to get married given that it’s breaking his solemn word to Lord Frey?

    I agree Trent. The show thus far has made Edmure look like a buffoon from the beginning, from the missed targets on the funeral pyre to the taking of the mill to the acquisition of two distant Lannister kids.

    And Robb did get off quite easy after breaking his vow to marry the Frey daughter, assuming that there are no more catches in the agreement.

    One note of interest to me is why there are so many parties interested in acquiring Harrenhall…… it seems like the hot property on the Monopoly Board right now.

  95. Lisa Y.
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    Gabriel:
    “If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.”

    This should be the tagline/motto of the entire series.

  96. 3eyes
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

    My apologies to anyone who feels spoiled by my speculation. As an Unsullied I have found it increasingly difficult to avoid be spoilt myself, so I sympathize, and will try to be more careful in future.

  97. Lyanna_Targaryen
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    @winter is coming

    I totally get what you are saying, but as someone who is Sullied but finds the vitriol and frankly, the whining and bitching in the reader recap just a complete buzzkill, I prefer reading here, and commenting only on what happened in the show and avoid speculating. I have enough respect for people who want to remain unspoiled to not say anything about anything unless it has happened onscreen. I hope that is okay.

  98. Trent
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones:And Robb did get off quite easy after breaking his vow to marry the Frey daughter, assuming that there are no more catches in the agreement.

    One note of interest to me is why there are so many parties interested in acquiring Harrenhall…… it seems like the hot property on the Monopoly Board right now.

    Speaking of “catches in the agreement”, we haven’t even mentioned how there’s a huge catch in what little Frey got out of the deal– something to the effect of, “you’ll get Harrenhal as soon as it is no longer of strategic importance to me.” Not of strategic importance? Which Harrenhal are we talking about here? I don’t have a map of Westeros in my mind, but like Oz says, it’s the “hot property on the Monopoly Board” and based on what we’ve seen of its history, it’s been so for awhile.

  99. Trent
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    alex,

    I think you’ll find that, while not an outright spoiler, this type of comment/speculation is not welcome by most in these forums. We’re extremely anal retentive about this kind of thing, I’m afraid.

    I think Lyanna_Targaryen said it very well: “[...] to not say anything about anything unless it has happened onscreen.”

  100. NoFunAtParties
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    Why didn’t Roose release Brienne? Well he can’t exactly let her go to running back to Robb with tales of how Bolton had the Kingslayer in custody and let him go now can he.

  101. Easteros bunny
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    My friend who hasn’t read the books said she has no clue what is going on with Theon.

    And judging from the non book fans who are sad about ros, this proves to me that she is a perfectly acceptable character, and book fans need to relax!

  102. Benjamin Wakefield
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Regarding Theon’s mystery, I think the show has thrown out plenty of clues and it’s all but solved in this last episode.

    -Roose Bolton says his bastard son is raising an army to retake Winterfell and kill Theon.
    - Soon Winterfell is under siege by unseen ‘Northmen’ who use a vuvuzela to deprive the defenders of sleep.
    -Theon’s men mutiny, knock him out and presumably exchange him for safe passage from the besiegers (as Robb promised)
    - Bolton’s banner depicts a flayed man on a Saint Andrew’s Cross
    - Bolton’s bastard is connected with somewhere called The Dreadfort
    -The Boltons we’ve met are drably dressed and quite nasty

    - The boy who ‘rescues’ Theon is called ‘bastard’ by (presumably his own) man. In this show ‘bastard’ is always a literal insult about illegitimacy, am I right?
    -He says ‘winter is coming’, so he’s probably affiliated with the Starks
    -He wakes Theon up with another vuvuzela
    -He peels Theon’s skin off on a St Andrews Cross
    -Making this crucifix dungeon a pretty dreadful fort
    -This boy is drably dressed and very nasty

    Cummon!

    Which leaves the questions:
    -Did he or why did he burn Winterfell?
    -Does he want to return the Stark boys to Robb or do something nasty?
    -Is this whole charade just to mess with Theon’s mind or is it a political game?
    -What happened to Theon’s men? Were they allowed to go free?
    -Does Roose Bolton know what his bastard is up to?

  103. P-DOg
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    I have a quick question. Why is Roose Bolton called James Bond Bolton here? I don’t recall the actor ever being 007 before, or in a 007 movie. Someone care to enlighten me?

  104. Adria
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Easteros bunny,

    I’m a book fan. And I’m sad about Ros. Have we gotten a curtain call for Esme Bianco yet? I was really liking her story. Such an abrupt ending, yet I really shouldn’t be surprised by abrupt endings at this point.

  105. Lyanna_Targaryen
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    P-DOg,

    Because of his demeanor. Ice cold and smooth, and I know I’m not the only one who thinks the actor who plays Bolton has eyes that are very similar to Daniel Craig’s.

    ETA: It’s just a joke :)

  106. Lyanna_Targaryen
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    LorenzoD,

    I laughed sooooo hard at that part. Though I’m not entirely sure the turn of phrase “overplay your hand” would exist in Westeros (do they play card game? I can’t remember now) , it’s still brilliant and totally excusable.

  107. Slynt
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    I thought it was odd that Jon and Ygritte didn’t at least shout naughty curses at Orell when they reached the top. The scene felt wrong, without resolution.

  108. Alisha
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    It could be that Bolton was trying to play both sides… Send Jaime back to Kings Landing to make the Lannisters happy but keep Brienne as the traitor who helped the Kingslayer escape to make Rob happy. Rob has said several times now how he’s losing the war but winning all the battles. Maybe Bolton is trying to keep his options open in case the Lannisters start winning the battles too. He certainly seems like the kind of person who would do that. The only thing though…. as soon as Bolton hands Brienne back to Rob, all she has to do is say “Bolton let Jaime go!” to mess the whole thing up. So I guess I don’t really see how it will work if that was his plan.

  109. Deez
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones: I agree Trent.The show thus far has made Edmure look like a buffoon from the beginning, from the missed targets on the funeral pyre to the taking of the mill to the acquisition of two distant Lannister kids.

    And Robb did get off quite easy after breaking his vow to marry the Frey daughter, assuming that there are no more catches in the agreement.

    One note of interest to me is why there are so many parties interested in acquiring Harrenhall…… it seems like the hot property on the Monopoly Board right now.

    I believe I recall from earlier episodes Harrenhall is located in a region that generates a lot of money, so a lot of people have always wanted to control it. But at the same time those that have, have had bad things happen to them.

  110. M
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

    Lyanna_Targaryen:
    @winter is coming

    I totally get what you are saying, but as someone who is Sullied but finds the vitriol and frankly, the whining and bitching in the reader recap just a complete buzzkill, I prefer reading here, and commenting only on what happened in the show and avoid speculating. I have enough respect for people who want to remain unspoiled to not say anything about anything unless it has happened onscreen. I hope that is okay.

    This is why I’d rather comment here than on the book reader’s board – I’m about as Sullied as they come but the book reader’s comment section is like walking through a minefield sometimes. It’s refreshing to come here and read speculation on what people think is going to happen when they genuinely have no idea what’s coming rather than 500 comments on how people are cheesed off about how things are different from the books. I’d rather bite my tongue on this board rather than slam my head into a wall on the other.

  111. Deez
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    Mimsy: It looks like you answered your own question.Why keep Brienne?Because, like Lady Stark, Brienne made a treasonous act against Robb and is now a prisoner.Bolton has an excuse to keep her.By sending Jaime on his way, Bolton appears to be playing both sides or at least sitting on the fence.. we’ll see what happens.

    He basically has to kill Brienne and hope no one tells Rob he let Jaime go(which I don’t think is possible). This is outright treason against Rob so I don’t think this could be a case of playing both sides. If Rob locked up his own mother for freeing Jaime I imagine it would be “off with his head for Bolton”. I think Bolton is gonna jump ship, and if “Boy” is a bolton like some on here have speculated I think the main purpose was to find out about the truth about the Stark boys. Maybe Locke is going after them now, hopefully they fair better then Jamie and Brienne. Also if Bolton jumps ship does he take Harrenhall with him and mess up the Frey dealio?

  112. Alisha
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    Deez,

    Yeah, that’s what I was thinking too… It should be an interesting next couple of episodes at least!

  113. grumpycetacean
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    My grumpy heart warms for Sam and Jon finding love with wildlings. I have even more hope now that the two friends will meet up someday soon and go double dating. I agree that the wall scenes were quite spectacular! I didn’t realize it was a wall made of ice…must be freezing through all the seasons? Poor black brothers have it rough…and there aren’t enough left to withstand Mance as far as I can see.

    Bolton appears to be betraying Robb in sending Jaime to king’s landing, and I fear even more that Robb’s cause is dead. His father was noble and worth fighting for, but Robb is not and his bannermen are fleeing a sinking ship it seems. Moreover, if Bolton is occupying Harrenhall and is no longer loyal to Robb, how is Robb going to give Frey the ruined castle? Worried about what will happen to Brienne, she was only doing her duty and doesn’t deserve whatever hell is going to befall her.

    Varys and Littlefinger scene…oh my yes…this is why we love GoT, isn’t it? Poor Ros, she got probably one of the worst ways to die in the series so far, I think.

    Definitely the best show on tv imo, and it is flying by way too fast! Loved the Unsullied review, as always.

  114. lmm
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    The show may reveal who the “boy” is on or before episode 9, the Rains of Castamere. Imagine all those revelations happening all at once. I agree Theon’s storyline does drag on a bit, but these scenes are nice for book-readers because these scenes don’t really exist in the books. It’s nice of them to “flesh out” these scenes (morbid pun intended).

  115. Adam
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    I’d imagine this episode would be harder for the Sullied to sully you on, anyway – this probably had the biggest quantity of non-book material of any episode yet. Which is fine by me, I loved most of the additions, especially the Mel/Arya scene.

    The Unsullied do know that these Theon scenes were all offstage in the books, right? That would explain why it seems to be progressing slowly – the writers have to fill in a LOT of gaps themselves, and it can’t be terribly easy to write a season’s worth of material from scratch.

    Thanks for posting these Oz, still love reading them! “James Bond Bolton” is my favorite thing ever…would have made such a great GoT spinoff.

  116. Grijnwaald
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    Benjamin Wakefield:
    Regarding Theon’s mystery, I think the show has thrown out plenty of clues and it’s all but solved in this last episode.

    -Roose Bolton says his bastard son is raising an army to retake Winterfell and kill Theon.
    - Soon Winterfell is under siege by unseen ‘Northmen’ who use a vuvuzela to deprive the defenders of sleep.
    -Theon’s men mutiny, knock him out and presumably exchange him for safe passage from the besiegers (as Robb promised)
    - Bolton’s banner depicts a flayed man on a Saint Andrew’s Cross
    - Bolton’s bastard is connected with somewhere called The Dreadfort
    -The Boltons we’ve met are drably dressed and quite nasty

    - The boy who ‘rescues’ Theon is called ‘bastard’ by (presumably his own) man. In this show ‘bastard’ is always a literal insult about illegitimacy, am I right?
    -He says ‘winter is coming’, so he’s probably affiliated with the Starks
    -He wakes Theon up with another vuvuzela
    -He peels Theon’s skin off on a St Andrews Cross
    -Making this crucifix dungeon a pretty dreadful fort
    -This boy is drably dressed and very nasty

    Cummon!

    Which leaves the questions:
    -Did he or why did he burn Winterfell?
    -Does he want to return the Stark boys to Robb or do something nasty?
    -Is this whole charade just to mess with Theon’s mind or is it a political game?
    -What happened to Theon’s men? Were they allowed to go free?
    -Does Roose Bolton know what his bastard is up to?

    You’ve got it, I’d be very surprised if it’s not the case! I didn’t want to say anything in case some people might have thought I already knew and was spoiling it for them but I didn’t. Not every cross is a “St Andrew’s cross” by the way

  117. Benjamin Wakefield
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    Those X shaped bondage crosses are called that though, to distinguish them fromt the ‘t’ shaped Jesus crosses

  118. Tom Erdenay
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    M: This is why I’d rather comment here than on the book reader’s board – I’m about as Sullied as they come but the book reader’scomment section is like walking through a minefield sometimes. It’s refreshing to come here and read speculation on what people think is going to happen when they genuinely have no idea what’s coming rather than 500 comments on how people are cheesed off about how things are different from the books. I’d rather bite my tongue on this board rather than slam my head into a wall on the other.

    This. I don’t believe I’ve left any comments in this section yet, but this is a much more refreshing and friendly read than the other one. Plus we get great summaries.

  119. Oz of Thrones
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    How about we just agree to disagree, and leave it at that?

  120. Dogmayor
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    This is the non-book thread, I hope someone deletes your post. Keep your asinine complaints in the other thread.

  121. Vlad
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    Okay, people, can’t you read? Show some respect to the Unsullied and to WiC.

    Why the hell would you post something in spoiler marks when this is clearly the newbie recap thread. I haven’t read the books and I’m not planning to, although I’ve already bought them. I wanna watch the show and not know what was changed, what is the same, which character should I expect to do something more next episode etc.

    I will seriously stop visiting this site If the book readers continue to act like five-graders. Grow up and learn to respect the site’s rules.

  122. john
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    I hope the admins are dishing out some IP bans or I’m going to stop visiting this site. Its getting worse and worse.

  123. Biscotti
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    Great recap!
    I have a question for everyone.
    Theon got asked which body part he needs the least, but he couldn’t decide… ouch!! Talk about being stuck between the frying pan and the fire.
    Which body part would you choose, if sadistic boy had you tied to a St Andrew’s cross?

  124. Spryte
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    Biscotti,

    A strange thing to consider… My little toe maybe. My feet are always hurting after work anyway.

  125. Croccifixio
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:44 pm | Permalink

    just a question, what happened to We Do Not Sow? has he start reading the books or something?

    for me, it is a pleasure seeing “unsullied” discussing their reactions and theories so i think it would be nice if we have 2 or 3 unsullied discussing the episode and bounce theories with each other. sort of a discussion. Oz is great but maybe we could hear him discussing it with Ozzette or something

  126. iam76
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

    Theons scenes have been some of my favorite. Barry is doing a great job as the boy ! :P

  127. Gatorfisch
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

    One note of interest to me is why there are so many parties interested in acquiring Harrenhall…… it seems like the hot property on the Monopoly Board right now.

    Ironic, since the place is “haunted” after the Targaryans burned it with their dragons.

  128. Sullied Hipster
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:38 pm | Permalink

    Can we just filter any comment featuring the word “book”? I encourage my friends not to read the books as I have. I want them to have the joy of being surprised. I want you all to have the same. Some Sullied think they’re being clever, but they give away spoilers with the most innocent of comments. I read this thread because I like to see what people think of the show and the direction of story lines. The reader’s thread totally sucks because it’s a bunch of hipsters talking about how the books are so much better, and they butchered things because some minor character was omitted. It’s all so stupid.

  129. Valyrian
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones:
    valyrian,

    Thanks valyrian!When I first began writing the recaps, I felt as if my primary function was to do a detailed write-up of the Episode.Everyone here at WiC has always been very positive of my columns.But one of the comments after my first recap that I really paid attention to was something along the lines of this:“we don’t need a synopsis; we all watched it.”A very true statement, and one that I keep in mind now for every recap.

    Either way, I am always trying to improve.And I always appreciate feedback.

    You’re always improving, each recap is funnier than the last (and I swear to God I didn’t catch that reference in Roose’s speech about Jaime overplaying his position it’s even better now lol).

    And dear fellow book-readers-who-are-jerks: I hope your books burn in hell. Like someone else said above, you’re being worse than children; children learn.

  130. Pyat Dean Pelton
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    Unbesmirched,

    He said “everything i said was a lie”

  131. Lisa Y.
    Posted May 6, 2013 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    LorenzoD: I don’t believe for one second that he didn’t say it on purpose to provoke Jaime and, well, make us laugh!

    There’s a reason why Roose Bolton is called Roose Trollton in the Twitterverse. He is one cold, droll mutha. And I have no doubt he knows what his bastard is up to. And, that soon, he’ll know that both the Stark boys are still alive.

  132. Hear Me Roar
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 1:50 am | Permalink

    john,

    Oh yes, don’t you worry.

    People, show respect and follow the rules!

  133. johnnytata
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 1:52 am | Permalink

    i am also a sullied who has enjoyed coming to this recap/thread so much more than the other. while i like that recap, the comments section is just downright annoying, no one interested in actually discussing the story, bogged down in minutia. through this thread i am vicariously reliving my virgin experience with the series and i love it. would never spoil it. hopefully others will respect the process.

  134. johnnytata
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 1:58 am | Permalink

    actually, i am really impressed with how attentive and intuitive most on this thread are. i am on my second read through and most unsullied are picking up on details than i am missing even on my second time through!

  135. Nagga's Kin
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 2:27 am | Permalink

    grumpycetacean: Moreover, if Bolton is occupying Harrenhall and is no longer loyal to Robb, how is Robb going to give Frey the ruined castle?

    The Starks have been running the show up North for a long, looooong time now. It stands to reason some of their bannermen would have chafed at that in the past. Why should the present be any different? Lord Bolton is Robb’s second in command, which implies he’s fielding a large fraction of the Northern army – though that’s not been explicitly confirmed. Throughout, Robb and Bolton have had different ideas on how to prosecute this war. At the very least, in letting Jamie go a second time, Bolton appears to be laying the groundwork for a truce with the Lannisters behind Robb’s back.

    Walder Frey is technically a Tully bannerman but the strategic value of the bridge at the Twins is very high, i.e. he’s generating a boatload of toll revenue – which is why he could afford an army large enough to replace the Karstarks. That gives him a great deal of independence. Both the Starks and the Tullys have given short shrift to the Freys in the past, whom they regard as beneath them in status, especially in matrimonial matters. Given that Lord Frey and Lord Bolton are both older men and powerful lords north of the Trident, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they were at least socially acquainted – though the show hasn’t confirmed that. Note that Harrenhal is far from both of their home bases and would therefore be somewhat difficult to hold onto.

  136. Tar Kidho
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 2:33 am | Permalink

    Biscotti,

    I’d ask for a haircut, but the guy would probably see it as an invitation to take the skin along with it…

    Valyrian: And dear fellow book-readers-who-are-jerks: I hope your books burn in hell

    Lol, that’s a great way of putting it, and I second that!

  137. Tar Kidho
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 2:47 am | Permalink

    johnnytata: would never spoil it. hopefully others will respect the process.

    I still think it’s only a very small minority that would come here to spoil it for non-bookreaders. Problem is of course that once spoiled, there’s no way to un-spoil… It’s the disease of the internet: some teenage douchbags or people who have failed in real-life social settings trying to feel powerfull in the anonimity of the web.

    To keep the non-bookreader posts entirely (or as much as possible) spoiler free, a login would be required. For 100% safety, ALL posts should be screened before appearing on the site. If Winter, HMR, FaB and Fury don’t have the time to screen all posts, I’m sure there would be some WiC.net regulars happy to step up to the task.

  138. Joh
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 4:50 am | Permalink

    How much love can we get for Tormund Giantsbane right now?

    I kept wondering how much we were going to learn about his character given that he has only had a couple lines of dialogue.

    Then part of the wall breaks away and instead of panicking or cutting the rope, he just digs deeper into the ice and grits his teeth to support the weight of three other people through sheer will. No dialogue needed to prove that he is undeniably badass!

    Orel, on the other hand… : (
    …what a sad little man.

    Also, I don’t usually get swoony over this sort of thing and most TV romances bore me to tear but dude, Jon and Ygritte. The sunset scenery on top of the wall. The shared looks. It’s beautiful, man. In fact all of the wall scenes could have been part of a big-budget film. The climb was a flawless action sequence if I ever saw one.

    The Loras and Sansa scene was strangely heartbreaking. Loras has lost Renly, and now he is just going through the motions of life for duty and the good of his family. He cand rag himself out of bed in the morning and face the prospect of a loveless marriage by saying “For Highgarden!”
    Sansa, on the other hand, still believes in a fairytale ending. When she finds out that there is no fairytale ending, what sustains her? She can’t very well pretend that she is being kept a hostage of the Lannisters for the good of Winterfell. That is a pretty devastating loss of innocence right there, and in some ways, a more dramatic one than the death of her father.

    Tyrion’s proposal was awkward, but I like how he worked in the line to let Shae know that he would rather be proposing to her…

    And speaking of awkward romance, is anybody else getting a slapstick comedy vibe from Jaime & Brienne? Their whole dynamic is already referred to all over the internet as a classic buddy cop pairing, but the fork scene…I wonder if it was intended that way by the directors and writers, or if NCW and GC just have such awesome chemistry that they are naturally funny?

    Lots of other good scenes…Olenna and Tywin, Jojen and Meera, Littlefinger’s ‘Ladder’ speech (with a perfectly timed shot of Ros as a failed “climber”)…

    I found the Red Priestess and the Brotherhood a little lackluster. Not sure why. They sort of come across as a bunch of corrupt hobos pretending to be Robin Hood and his Merry Men. They are so unappealing that even an fanatical zombie commander, a crack archer, and a drunken Fire Priest can’t make them likable.

    And yeah, Theon’s scenes are frustrating. If I was truly Unsullied, I would think they were lame. As a reader, I can catch all the hints and clues that they building up around this, but still. Eh.
    A storyline should be able to stand on its own and hold the interest of people who are not in the know. So far it is only a mystery that will be cracked by book readers, or people who are willing to rewatch the DVDs or BluRays fifty times to sort it all out.

    But all in all? A great episode. This season is, in my opinion, by far the best.

    So, yeah, I will admit, I am an avid book reader (read through the series 5+ times).
    This was the first episode to wildly deviate from the source material and I AM LOVING THE SURPRISES.

    I may have the books almost memorized, but as of Season three, the television series’ actors and writers have taken the storylines and characters in so many new directions to the point where I can’t necessarily predict what will happen any more. I am starting to avoid spoilers like episode synopses because I want to see how the show plays out as an independent entity. The book purists are missing out on a lot by trying to judge the show on whether or not it is a direct adaptation. It is inspired by the books, but not bound to follow them, and this leaves open the possibility for a lot of new and exciting material and creative brilliance.

  139. csasil
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    Tar Kidho,

    … or even just the ability to flag comments on this thread for review would be great. Many bookreaders like myself who read but stay our of this discussion will eagerly flag offending spoilery comments.

  140. Dragonpals
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    Geez, what part of “Discussion post for non-book readers” you lot don’t understand? We don’t care if this was faithful or unfaithful to the book, if it was “less” boring in the book or if it was just as boring in it. For someone who can’t shut up about some books you read you sure look iliterate.

  141. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    Dragonpals:
    Geez, what part of “Discussion post for non-book readers” you lot don’t understand? We don’t care if this was faithful or unfaithful to the book, if it was “less” boring in the book or if it was just as boring in it. For someone who can’t shut up about some books you read you sure look iliterate.

    Trust me, a LOT of Sullied hate those types of comments too, which is why we hang around the non-reader thread: there’s a drastic drop in sniping, complaining, and ingratitude. You guys have great posts and a refreshing enthusiasm for the show. I don’t post here (since I’m as sullied as they come) but I love to read. Some others should, yep, show more restraint.

  142. Biscotti
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    Was just thinking. I hope the smallfolk find out about what Joffrey did to Ros. I hope there is an uprising or something, and that she becomes a kind of symbol or folk hero.
    Its sad to see a character go that best represented the plight of the common people in Westeros.

  143. Ghost
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    I see a lot of people complaining that this Theon scene was pointless and offers no info. It actually does though. Theon has to guess where he is and who boy is and all of his wrong guesses allow the viewer to eliminate a Northern castle and family. Also, you can combine that with all the other hints there have been.

    I do wish they would just say who boy is already.

  144. Joey DC
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    “The Climb” gets four out of fives stars from me. I definitely enjoyed it more than the previous episode, which didn’t hold my attention as much as I thought it would.

    This time I truly loved the Jon Snow/Ygritte moments. While all chemistry between them disappeared and everything seemed so rushed between them in the previous episode (I was highly disappointed!), I felt they connected more again in “The Climb.” Especially the end of this episode made me smile and warmed my heart. I hope the writers will invest more time in them as characters and give them a decent story line that develops SLOWLY like they do with all the other main characters.

    I also loved the Tyrion/Cersei scene and how they still can’t believe that their father arranged marriages for them so to speak. Somehow I am hoping to see a deeper friendship develop between Sansa and Tyrion because he always seemed to care for her. I can’t help but to look forward to what’s in store for them and really want to see them together now.

    Hard to believe that there are only a few episodes left of this season.

  145. Old_Gran
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    Evil erik,

    Good catch, E.E. I noticed that too. Don’t know how that one slipped through.

  146. Ours is the Fury
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    Old_Gran,

    It’s been covered several times now- Loras said “fringed.” Cogman himself came over to WIC to confirm that, and TV captioning shows Loras saying “fringed.”

  147. Anterograde
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    Ghost: I see a lot of people complaining that this Theon scene was pointless and offers no info. It actually does though. Theon has to guess where he is and who boy is and all of his wrong guesses allow the viewer to eliminate a Northern castle and family. Also, you can combine that with all the other hints there have been. I do wish they would just say who boy is already.

    At this point, it’s fairly obvious who “Boy” is, unless all of the clues are supposed to be a red herring. The reason I am annoyed at these scenes is not because of the thinly-veiled whodunit aspect, it’s because they are spending WAY too much time doing nothing.

    We get it. Theon is being tortured. We get it. “Boy” is a sadist. They’ve spent so much time on these 2, that a simple reveal of who Boy is is not a good enough payoff.

    In order to justify this much screen time, there needs to be some bigger twist/payoff than just “Hey…by the way, I’m XXXX, and I’m torturing you because I’m batpoop crazy.”

    Here’s to hoping D&D will be able to give us some kind of satisfying payoff.

  148. Targaryen
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    Poor Sansa, she should have left with the Hound during the war of Blackwater.

    I agree, this was a great episode, but I really wanted me some Dany Targaryan.

  149. Springwillcome
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    Gregory Kelton: It’s a common quote to say “overplay your hand” as in a POKER hand.The fact that he paused on the word and then chose “position” was hilarious.

    Thanks a lot for clearing that up – it does add a certain dimension…
    I must say though, I am a bit worried about the fate of Brienne! Roose Bolton is totally creepy …….
    On the other hand – Cersei would probably kill Brienne if she should ever catch her “holding hands” (well sort of .. .;-) with dear Jaime – so Kings Landing might not be an entirely safe place for Brienne either! Still – I’m going to miss Jaime-Brienne banter!

  150. sean
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    Less synopsis, more perspective.

  151. Oz of Thrones
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    sean,

    I mentioned doing this in the above comments. Finding a happy medium with all readers is near impossible, but a man can strive nonetheless. Thanks for the feedback!

  152. Veltigar
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    Dogmayor:
    Veltigar,

    This is the non-book thread, I hope someone deletes your post. Keep your asinine complaints in the other thread.

    Don’t know why you asked to remove my comment IIRC I didn’t spoil anything… I just commented on the general cheesiness of this episode (something which had nothing to do with being a book reader) and the fact that I was underwhelmed by many scenes that I had anticipated this episode (Like Tywin/Olenna… I was expecting depth and clever wit on the level off the Olenna/Varys exchange but it didn’t deliver at all). For me this really was the worst episode of three entire seasons. The only good scenes where the Theon scene (although it was painful to watch), the Sam and Gilly scene and the Roose-Brienne-Jaime combo. This episode made one thing clear however… We Need More Brian Cogman. That guy is a genius, I’m so glad he’s writing two episodes for the next season.

  153. Thomas
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    There seems to be disagreement on how the Olenna / Tywin scene ended amongst fans. Do you guys think Olenna broke the quill as a sign that the Tywin won the argument, or that it was an “eff you” towards him?

    For the record, in context to me it seems like she stops him from signing because he won her over.

  154. Oz of Thrones
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Thomas,

    Unless I totally misunderstood, the breaking of the pen stopped Tywin from signing the order for Loras to serve in the KG, thus paving the way for the Loras/Cersei marriage.

  155. Veltigar
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Thomas:
    There seems to be disagreement on how the Olenna / Tywin scene ended amongst fans. Do you guys think Olenna broke the quill as a sign that the Tywin won the argument, or that it was an “eff you” towards him?

    For the record, in context to me it seems like she stops him from signing because he won her over.

    </blockquote
    To me it was Obvious that Tywin won and Olenna surrendered.

  156. Trent
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Springwillcome: I must say though, I am a bit worried about the fate of Brienne! Roose Bolton is totally creepy …….

    This reminded me…wasn’t it Roose Bolton who was always trying to get Robb to kill his prisoners? Doesn’t bode well for Brienne…

    I haven’t re-watched the show yet, but didn’t Jamie “insist” that Brienne not be held by Bolton? Don’t know if Bolton will care, though.

  157. Trent
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    So it occurred to me…Tywin went and got “permission” (via extortion) from Olenna for Loras to marry Cersei…but I didn’t see anything similar for Sansa. Granted, he doesn’t have a nice line of communication with Catelyn at the moment, but are we to believe he’s simply commandeering Sansa against her will? What if she refuses? Threaten her? Throw her in the dungeon?

    I also wonder if there’s any “legal” or at least customary pre-requisite to marry off one’s son to a selected young lady.

  158. Thomas
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    Sansa’s a good little bird. She does as she’s told.

  159. Cal Van Hamacek
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    Lisa Y.,

    Word on dat

  160. Cal Van Hamacek
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    The way I understand it is – regarding Theon – the central conflict of his story is the question of identity. In season one, he belonged but deeply questioned his identity with the Starks. In season 2, his identity was put to the test, at which it failed desperately. His identity completely transformed for the worse. This season is showing both the consequences of his actions in season 2, but also the complete destruction and questioning of his identity, until he is an empty, soulless being. At least thats how I see it. The showrunners have used the tool of ‘boy’ to make the audience avidly discuss identity in relation to Theon’s arc. His while story is very Macbeth-y, rising to power half against his own intentions, only to have it destroy everything that he is.

  161. SkywalkerIsDead
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

    ngyoun,

    Plus, wasn’t that the same horn he played outside Winterfell to keep Theon awake.

  162. Ryan
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

    Evil erik,

    I heard that too and was very upset!!

  163. Dany's One-Eyed Dragon
    Posted May 7, 2013 at 11:56 pm | Permalink

    Gregory Kelton,

    I liked Bolton’s demeanor during that scene, and of course overplaying your hand is a poker/card game reference, but although I may have missed it – I did not know that there was poker or any other such card games played in Westeros! So I think it was another screen faux pas, like Laurus’s “French sleeves.” I know he probably said frayed sleeves or something like that from other posters, but I had to play that back several times because it sure sounded like “French” to me.

    Good episode as I too love the character building dialogue, but the most mumbling in an episode in the series by far! Took my 4 playback to understand the red princess’s last sentence to Gendry… Something like “kings will rise and fall because of you.”

  164. Dany's One-Eyed Dragon
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 12:12 am | Permalink

    Anterograde,

    Not to mention… The Boy’s acting when he was playing the good cop savior was strong and compelling, his scenes as a torturing sadist come off somewhat silly and phony, and generally poorly acted to me. But I recognize part of that could be the writing and me tiring from the Theon storyline a bit.

  165. Turri
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    A rather weird idea, but maybe it was partly intended that the show tortures the audience with the Theon subplot, making us ask the same questions, confusing us, asking them to just stop already, forcing us to reconsider our loyalties, making us squirm, telling us not to expect a happy ending, going on and on mercilessly… to identify with Theon, in a twisted way?

  166. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 12:41 am | Permalink

    Turri:
    A rather weird idea, but maybe it was partly intended that the show tortures the audience with the Theon subplot, making us ask the same questions, confusing us, asking them to just stop already, forcing us to reconsider our loyalties, making us squirm, telling us not to expect a happy ending, going on and on mercilessly… to identify with Theon, in a twisted way?

    I don’t think it’s a weird idea at all, as that seems to be exactly what they’re doing. Going by reactions it may be a failed experiment, but I think it’s too soon to tell.

  167. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 12:43 am | Permalink

    Dany’s One-Eyed Dragon: So I think it was another screen faux pas, like Laurus’s “French sleeves.” I know he probably said frayed sleeves or something like that from other posters, but I had to play that back several times because it sure sounded like “French” to me.

    Watch with closed captioning, it was “fringed” sleeves. I always watch with closed captioning the first time through to make up for the sometimes (to my American ears) garbled pronunciation.

  168. Dany's One-Eyed Dragon
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 1:24 am | Permalink

    The most interesting thing I found about this episode was the insight to The Lord of Light and the “one true god” religion . Whereas the religion was first brought to bear as some radical, cult-like witchcraft of a religion – generally inferred from Varys’s comments to Tyrion, Onion Knight, and others, as well as Mel’s quirky behavior and demon shadow baby. Then you realize that the seemingly most moral of the characters, the brotherhood w/o banners, are lord of light disciples and converts. And now we learn in this episode that Thoros of Myr had some special mission with King Robert and Mel’s dialogue rings of compassion and peacefulness – something like “while you (Thoros) get drunk the heathens continue to kill each other.” Almost like she views Westeros population as uncivilized and savage in the same way that the Dothraki are portrayed on the other side of the Narrow Sea.

    Thoros and Mel seem to speak some form of Valerian, so could there be some restitution or allegiance between the Baratheon and Targarean bloodlines to save the continent from the demise of the long winter and the evil that has awoken from a 1,000 year slumber? I don’t know in which religion the Targarean’s believe, if any at all, but one involving a fire god with disciples speaking Valerian would seem a natural fit for the Mother of Dragons. Well I’ll stop rambling as I am sure the Sullied are laughing their arses off at this plot speculation.

  169. Dany's One-Eyed Dragon
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 2:01 am | Permalink

    Alex,

    Funny – I am just thinking just the opposite on some of your points!

    I think silence by Cercia means that she thinks Joffrey tried to kill Tyrion, and she probably had reason to believe as much since Joffrey probably said something like I’m gonna kill my uncle Tyrion like he said he would give uncle Stannis a red smile. But Joffrey is a bit of a coward fleeing from the battle and at any sign of conflict. He has been slowly building his cruelty and confidence after the war as evidenced by his treatment toward his mother and experiment with Ros, which I believe was his “first time.” So I don’t think Joffrey had that much courage or prowess to order the hit on a family member. I think Tywin gave the order to kill his son. The knight who tried to kill him seemed to be coming from the direction of Tywin’s arriving Calvary, and having a son who you believe is an embarrassment to the family die a noble death on the battlefield seems to solve his predicament.

    And I think Tyrion will be a great husband for Sansa and treat her better than either lauris, little finger, or of course Joffrey. I doubt she will ever come to truly love him, but perhaps live contently and realize that she could have been handed a much worse fate.

  170. Nina
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 2:09 am | Permalink

    Yes I got my lover back through Dr. Abu. My wife left me six months ago. The longer she’s gone, the more I see what a jerk I was. At first, I blamed her for leaving. I told her she was ‘wrong’. In fact, I slapped Scripture on her, trying to guilt-induce her any way I could. My anger only pushed her farther away. I can’t believe the way I acted. My wife gave me chance after chance, and I ignored her. I contacted Dr. Abu and within a few minutes of speaking with him, I realized that Dr. Abu was the one person whom I could completely trust. Within 48 hours, My wife is back in my life. I can’t thank him enough and I will use Dr. Abu again for further work in the future. You can contact him on [email protected]

  171. Lou Reed
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 4:21 am | Permalink

    Tywin scored one point against Oleanna, but it seemed to my like she is not beaten yet. She just found it wiser to accept at this moment, but I have no doubt she will try and possibly succeed at preventing the Loras / Cersei wedding some other way. On the other hand Tyrion and Sansa does seem impossible to avoid now, unless she somehow escapes…. on the good side, that marriage can only get better with time.

  172. mags giantsbabe
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 4:24 am | Permalink

    We are the Sullied. We do not Spoil.

  173. Lou Reed
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 4:25 am | Permalink

    Peter,

    The ship has sailed, but did we see him leave? If he wants to spirit Sansa away, it would be quite obvious to suspect him, if she disappeared around the time he sailed for the Arryn.
    Seems to me it would be a quite neat Littlefinger trick to have Sansa disappear, while everyone thinks he is a thousand miles away. I hope! Sansa has been there way too long.

  174. Lisa Y.
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 5:20 am | Permalink

    Dany’s One-Eyed Dragon:
    Alex,

    Funny – I am just thinking just the opposite on some of your points!

    I think silence by Cercia means that she thinks Joffrey tried to kill Tyrion, and she probably had reason to believe as much since Joffrey probably said something like I’m gonna kill my uncle Tyrion like he said he would give uncle Stannis a red smile. But Joffrey is a bit of a coward fleeing from the battle and at any sign of conflict.He has been slowly building his cruelty and confidence after the war as evidenced by his treatment toward his mother and experiment with Ros, which I believe was his “first time.”So I don’t think Joffrey had that much courage or prowess to order the hit on a family member.

    I think Tywin gave the order to kill his son.The knight who tried to kill him seemed to be coming from the direction of Tywin’s arriving Calvary, and having a son who you believe is an embarrassment to the family die a noble death on the battlefield seems to solve his predicament.

    And I think Tyrion will be a great husband for Sansa and treat her better than either lauris, little finger, or of course Joffrey.I doubt she will ever come to truly love him, but perhaps live contently and realize that she could have been handed a much worse fate.

    Tywin ordered Tyrion’s death? That’s a huge stretch with cheap elastic. 1. Lord Tywin was miles away commanding a combined army of Lannisters and Tyrells. 2. Ser Mandan was a member of the King’s Guard. As Tyrion pointed out, only Cersei or Joffrey could order him to do anything, and the odds are in Joffrey’s favor that it was him. The attempt to kill Tyrion was clumsy and ill-timed. Just the sort of action ordered by an immature, thoughtless and ungrateful child. 3. Last, but most importantly, Tywin would never kill one of his own children! He may despise Tyrion, (and openly said so to Tyrion’s face) but as he told Cersei, when Tyrion was taken prisoner by Catelyn Stark, he went to war. And if Tywin wanted one of his own children dead–he’d do it himself. Because he’s Tywin F#cking Lannister. The ‘Rains of Castamere’ wasn’t an accident.

  175. Lisa Y.
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 5:50 am | Permalink

    Trent:
    So it occurred to me…Tywin went and got “permission” (via extortion) from Olenna for Loras to marry Cersei…but I didn’t see anything similar for Sansa.Granted, he doesn’t have a nice line of communication with Catelyn at the moment, but are we to believe he’s simply commandeering Sansa against her will?What if she refuses?Threaten her?Throw her in the dungeon?

    I also wonder if there’s any “legal” or at least customary pre-requisite to marry off one’s son to a selected young lady.

    Why do you think Sansa has a choice? Cersei doesn’t, so why would she? And why would Tywin even bother to consult Catelyn? She has no power. The only person who could have any influence on Sansa’s fate is Robb. And the only way that could happen is if Robb bends the knee to Joffrey.

  176. Jane
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming: We do our best to moderate these comments, but it would make our job a LOT easier if the book readers just never commented in here at all. And really, it shouldn’t be that hard, you have another thread wholly devoted to talking about the books. Please use that one. Thank you

    I couldn’t agree more, Winter. Book readers should be free to read this thread, to enjoy the opinions of the Unsullied, but should refrain from commenting here.

  177. Anterograde
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Lou Reed,

    Given what we know of Littlefinger…it’s probably for the best that Sansa NOT leave King’s Landing with him. Sure, she’d be free of the Lannisters, but isn’t that just a case of out of the frying pan…?

    Baelish did/does have a weird thing for Catelyn…so maybe his plan is to score some major points with her by delivering a freshly rescued Sansa? I doubt it, his love of power/chaos seems far greater than his love for Cat…

    No, Sansa is better off with Tyrion…though there’s absolutely no way for her to know that.

  178. Trent
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    Steven Swanson: Watch with closed captioning, it was “fringed” sleeves. I always watch with closed captioning the first time through to make up for the sometimes (to my American ears) garbled pronunciation.

    Hey– that’s a good idea…although for me it would totally kill immersion. Of course, rewinding and re-playing five times isn’t much better…

    Speaking of which, I’m just so thankful that they waited until Tivo’s invention to start production on GoT! :)

  179. Trent
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    In response to a few other posts–
    - Could the mods delete Nina’s post? I’d rather spam than spoilers, but better to have neither.
    - Regarding who ordered Tyrion’s death…I agree that it can’t be Tywin as he doesn’t have the authority (only Joffrey and Cersei do). I still think it’s Cersei who did it– Joffrey wouldn’t dare, but Cersei would. Maybe she did it “clumsily” to implicate Joffrey, or more likely, she thought that it would all be obscured by the fog of war. Moreover, I think Tyrion has deduced it was Cersei despite his letting on that he believed it was Joffrey. Maybe I give him too much credit.
    - I like the thinking that we haven’t seen the last of the maneuvering between Olenna and Tywin. Should be fun to watch.
    - As far as whether Sansa has a choice to marry Tyrion…I guess it’s just that…aren’t marriages– especially among the high-born (and these are some rather high-born folks we’re talking about) designed to create unions between houses? And isn’t that union rather tenuous if it’s done unilaterally (without one side’s consent)? I mean, maybe Sansa would be guilty of treason by refusing the orders of the Hand of the King…I guess I can see that…I guess if he wants to throw his authority around it doesn’t exactly seem out of character, and he’ll believe that whether the Starks like it or not, he will have the “key to the north”. I don’t know…I guess I’m still not convinced it’s going to happen. Maybe just wishful thinking.

  180. Anterograde
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    Trent,

    Sansa being forced to marry Tyrion is definitely NOT about merging the two houses.

    It’s more of a failsafe…the two youngest Stark boys are believed to be dead, and Robb is in open rebellion. By Lannister thinking, Sansa (or rather whoever she marries) is the heir to the North…

    So if Tywin and his cronies win the war then imprison, execute, or banish Robb Stark, then whoever has married Sansa will be lord of Winterfell, and (in name at least) lord of the North.

  181. Trent
    Posted May 8, 2013 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

    Anterograde:
    Trent,
    Sansa being forced to marry Tyrion is definitely NOT about merging the two houses.

    It’s more of a failsafe…the two youngest Stark boys are believed to be dead, and Robb is in open rebellion. By Lannister thinking, Sansa (or rather whoever she marries) is the heir to the North…

    So if Tywin and his cronies win the war then imprison, execute, or banish Robb Stark, then whoever has married Sansa will be lord of Winterfell, and (in name at least) lord of the North.

    If Sansa realizes this (presumably by somebody bringing this to her attention– Varys?), then she should refuse. She may be accused of treason (disobeying the orders of the Hand of the King– though I don’t know if that’s actually treason). She may be thrown in the dungeon. But better that then give the Lannisters the North, so the thinking would go.

  182. Blackfish Blues
    Posted May 9, 2013 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Jane: I couldn’t agree more, Winter.Book readers should be free to read this thread, to enjoy the opinions of the Unsullied, but should refrain from commenting here.

    Er, guys? I’ve read the Unsullied threads with interest and never commented until now, when I’ve read some really mean comments about book readers. Most of us have the intellingence to comment without making spoilers or pointing out differences from the books. I for one read the books ONLY because I learned there was a TV series in the makinng with some of my fave actors and I was curious. So the attacks on book readers and the proposed censorship are uncalled for in my view, and don’t encourage me to keep reading these threads.

  183. Trent
    Posted May 9, 2013 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    I’m with you, Blackfish. I may be Unsullied, but I like having the book-readers here. I hate spoilers as much as anybody (maybe more), but venting one’s nerd rage at book-readers– most of whom are very considerate– doesn’t help anybody. So just ignore it– it doesn’t pertain to you. You guys are welcome.

    That said, there are book readers who don’t realize at times that something they’re saying is spoilery or otherwise doesn’t belong here. Very few deliberately spoil things for Unsullied, and I pity those few who have such a miserable existence that they take joy in spoiling fun for others.

  184. Dragonpals
    Posted May 9, 2013 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    I don’t doubt that there are many book readers who make their best effort to keep themselves from making spoilers. However, in my experience, that’s not always enough. Many times people will make spoilers without realizing they are making them. Saying that something that is a mystery now will be explained by episode X, as I’ve seen some say of “Boy”‘s identity, IS a spoiler. A viewer who prefers to be entirely in the dark shouldn’t know if it will be revealed next week, in the season finale, in years to come or never. Yet there is always the typical reader with a Samaritan complex who can’t restrain himself from “conforting” the non book reader and telling him that it will be over soon.

    Then there is the more stupid version who just can’t keep the novels and the show apart in his head, and will exclaim plothole and say that the show has been ruined forver because the show went against some fact that was established only in the book and never in the show. These are the worst. I’ve read so many people complaining that Loras can’t marry Sansa because he is in the Kingsguard (which HE IS NOT in the show’s continuity) that I have no doubt now that he’ll join the KG at some point in the season and not marry either Sansa or Cersei or any woman. So yeah, many thanks for that.

    And last but no least, there are also book readers who in their kind effort to “protect” us from spoilers will confuse things that aren’t spoilers for spoilers and make a fuss until we are, ironically, spoilered whole. A perfect example happened above with the guy who called Melisandre “RW” (for Red Woman) and half a dozen people jumped to his throat. Congrats, now we know there is some other RW thing we have to watch out for.

  185. Dany's One-Eyed Dragon
    Posted May 10, 2013 at 3:37 am | Permalink

    Lisa Y.,

    OK… I went back and watched the Blackwater episode again tonight, and admit I was wrong on one pretty big point and thus my theory that it was Tywin who ordered the hit on Tyrion is much less probable than I initially thought. But what great plot twist isn’t held together by cheap elastic!
    Here are my counterpoints:

    1. Lord Tywin was miles away commanding the Army. – I had thought the attempt on Tyrion’s life had occurred simultaneously when Tywinn’s Calvary arrived, but as I saw it clearly occurred immediately before. The order from Tywin to Ser Mandan could have come at some time earlier once the was started, and Tywin knew Tyrion would be on the battlefield. But it does make it less likely now that I know Ser Mandan was not traveling with Lord Tywin into the Battle at Blackwater bay (I had figured he was dispatched to Casterly Rock by Joff to deliver some top secret information regarding the war and impending invasion or something).

    2. Ser Mandan was a member of the King’s Guard so only Joff or Cersei could command him. – I am not buying any argument that asserts a person in Kings Landing (or almost all of Westeros) could not be bought or could not be under the influence of Lord Tywin, the richest most powerful man in Westeros. Perhaps the King’s Guard is more steadfast than the City Watch Gold Cloaks, but at least one surely could be (and I suspect at least one is) owned and/or loyal to Lord Tywin. He is F-ing Tywin Lannister, right?

    3. Tywin would never kill one of his children. – I couldn’t disagree more on this point. He only went to war to save the family name. He explained that to Jamie in the tent and how everyone dies, and it is the family name that lives on. Tywin has no love for Tyrion, and the the opportunity to turn his whoring heavily drinking Imp son into a fallen war hero for the history books is a deal I believe Tywin takes every day of the longest winter. I have no idea what ‘the Rains of Castamere wasn’t an accident is supposed mean, so I cannot rebut that comment.

    I also don’t think the attempt on Tyrion’s life was clumsy or ill-timed at all, whoever gave the order. Almost everyone would believe he died at the hands of the enemy. The one or two who saw it (if they survived themselves) probably would not mention the incident or be silenced if they did.

    Nevertheless, I would put Cersei ahead of Tywin and Joff as a suspect because as I watched that episode again, she was resigned to the idea that all in the red keep were going to die and would likely not want her brother to flee the battle to safety. Also, the scene when Tyrion confronted seemed much like the beating of Ros (as Tyrion’s presumed whore) scene were Cercei is clever, but Tyrion is one (half) step ahead – chuckle. And finally I suppose I just trust that Varys was sincere and was telling him the truth about it.

  186. WompWomp
    Posted May 10, 2013 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    Plotless facts re:Harrenhal:

    •Despite being a ruin, it is the largest keep in the Seven Kingdoms.

    •Its inclusion in many dealings is not entirely without merit, to those understandably perplexed. Harren the Black, who erected Harrenhal, was King of the Iron Islands and the Riverlands in his time. While the ruling seat of the Riverlands migrated to Riverrun after the Targaryens burnt Harrenhal to the ruin we all know and love today (as referenced in the show), the keep still retains some of its symbolic significance as the former lordship of the Riverlands.

  187. bluemeadowmist
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:24 am | Permalink

    Trent,

    Trent: Hey– that’s a good idea…although for me it would totally kill immersion.Of course, rewinding and re-playing five times isn’t much better…

    Speaking of which, I’m just so thankful that they waited until Tivo’s invention to start production on GoT!:)

    I always watch it first with no captions cause it can be distracting. I always miss something in the dialogue the first time, but when I re-watch it I have the captions on to pick up what I missed. Of course eventually I don’t need any captions cause I’ve watched each episode a million times and can now recite them!!! :)

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