Episode 27 – The Bear and the Maiden Fair– Open Chat
By Ours is the Fury on in Recap.

The Bear and the Maiden Fair

Tonight the seventh episode of Game of Thrones’ third season is set to air. Discuss the show here with fellow fans until the episode airs. Winter will be back afterward with his thoughts on “The Bear and the Maiden Fair.” Episode details, below the cut.

Writer: George R.R. Martin
Director: Michelle MacLaren
Runtime: 58 minutes
Synopsis: Dany exchanges gifts with a slave lord outside of Yunkai. As Sansa frets about her prospects, Shae chafes at Tyrion’s new situation. Tywin counsels the king, and Melisandre reveals a secret to Gendry. Brienne faces a formidable foe in Harrenhal.


282 Comments

  1. Anne
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    Hodor! ???

  2. Sky Aero
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    THE BEARPIT WILL BE AMAZING!!!!!!

  3. Al Swearengen
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    Why no thread for the BAFTA win ?

  4. Villane
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    This episode’s title is an accurate description of the Grizzlies vs. Thunder Playoff Series. GO GRIZZ!

  5. Daggers in the Dark
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    These last four episodes will be amazing. Without a doubt.

  6. pntrlqst
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    NOW THAT’S HOW YOU WRITE AN EPISODE!!! THOSE INVENTED SCENES WRITTEN BY GRRM WERE GOLDEN!!!

    …oh? what’s that you say? those scenes were added by d&d after grrm wrote the script?

    THOSE ADDED SCENES WERE TERRIBLE AND RUINED AN OTHERWISE BEST EPISODE EVER!!!

  7. Your Mothers Panties
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    Hope this episode rekindles my great affection for got…last episode was an oakyish average got episode…they are doing shit when it come sto the btw storyline,…no character development for tormund and jon, mance, jon and ygrite, sex scene felt too early, the wildlings are no fun, iceland looks bland and boring…hugh…too many mistakes this season…D and D, better polish those pens and minds and let cogman be the man in charge of writing…and no more stupidly edited scenes like the crab ending …

  8. Mike Chair
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    Random Thoughts While Re-watching Last Week’s Episode

    Is Gilly really that cute or is it my booze?

    I considered the possibility that Sam would be attacked while sitting at the fire because D&D sometimes ;-/ depart from the book. If they didn’t I wouldn’t have felt the suspense.

    “If I didn’t know this was hasenpfeffer, I’d swear it was carrots.” Who was the Looney Tunes character that said that? I forget.

    Couldn’t he just say “Har!’ once?

    High Valyrian is the best fake language ever invented, besides the English we speak in the States. We should call it Low English.

    “There is no other side.” Well, that sucks.

    I wish D&D would get busy with Arya shutting some eyes.

    If a woman asks you if you’re staring at her ass, you should say, “Yes!”

    Hair is the body part you need the least. Just sayin’. 100% Ramsay. And I can’t believe I still need to use a spoiler tag on that.

    As the philosopher, Jimmy Soul, advised, “If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife.” BTW, Mike Chair did not heed that advice.

    They’re really driving that Bolton sigil home, aren’t they?

    Yeah. Highgarden may be neither high nor a garden, but they don’t do incest. Highgarden!

    That’s why Mike Chair doesn’t climb mountains (or walls). Only tavern steps.

    “Out there somewhere.” Isn’t that a song title? No. That was “Somewhere Out There.” Never mind.

    Ros being killed was like the Canadians being eliminated from the NHL playoffs (to a Bruins/Book fan) — we’re glad for the elimination but sorry we didn’t do it ourselves.

  9. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    Love me some bearpit! Seeing it die will be kind of rough though.

    The Jon Snow scenes have been falling flat for me. Hopefully GRRM will inject some life.

    Can’t wait to see if there’s any fall out from the death of Ros.

    Who was in the preview with Dany? Titan’s Bastard?

  10. Joan Català
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    I think we’ll see some advancement in the Dragonstone storyline to set up the events for the last episodes, which should be Davos saving Gendry?

    Also will be interesting to see Tywin vs Joffrey.

    And of course… The Bear Pit.

    Not expecting Sam the Slayer this episode…

  11. Hunt
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    A bear there was. A bear! A BEAR!

  12. Garlan the Gallant
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    Just wondering: anyone want to tell me which parts weren’t written by GRRM? Apparently The Bear Pit wasn’t written by him and were added to this episode afterwards.

  13. Scott Glennon
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    Had alot of trouble processing last weeks episode. Stuff missing from “North of the Wall”. I was tempted to go on a rant about Magnar. BUT..all things considered, it really was a good episode (Goodbye Ros- Esme’ Bianco, you rock!). I figure it this way; last week’s episode will work if the rest of the season is a righteous roller coaster. I suspect this is what will happen. I am looking forward to “The Bear and the Maiden Fair”.

    For Winterfell!

  14. Caro H
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    Bearpit!!! & The Hound at last kidnapping Arya!! <3 Her scenes with the Brotherhood have been great and all, but it's sad to think we are only having episode 8 of the hound-arya roadtrip before the RW if they have him kidnapping her at the end of the episode or something. hopefully they'll make up for it in S4 or idk…

  15. Richard
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 6:55 pm | Permalink
  16. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    Caro H,

    I like the tense part when they were crossing the flooded raging Trident. I wonder if they cut it.

  17. Endless Giraffe
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Those few chapters before the RW are the best written part of the series I think. Theon in ADWD is second.

  18. ebevan91
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

    Villane:
    This episode’s title is an accurate description of the Grizzlies vs. Thunder Playoff Series. GO GRIZZ!

    A fellow Grizz fan? Nice. Or just a Thunder hater? Ok. We have 4 games left to get 2 more wins, I like our chances.

    Anyway back on topic, it would be nice if Comcast opened up the episode an hour or two early like last weekend.

  19. ebevan91
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger:
    Caro H,

    I like the tense part when they were crossing the flooded raging Trident.I wonder if they cut it.

    The original episode title was “Autumn Storms” so either that scene got moved to another episode or was omitted.

  20. Mike Chair
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

    Mike Chair is conflicted.

    As you can see, I’ve changed my Gravatar to a Boston Bruins rocking chair.

    Bs are on at 7:30 pm (puck drops circa 7:45). Come 9pm, I’ve got a problem. It’s a nice problem to have. I pretty much know what’s going to happen on GoT. No so much with the Bs. In my lifetime, the Bs have only won the Cup 3 times, and I was too young to understand the significance of it in ’70 and ’72. Bottom line — I’m DVR-ing GoT.

    BTW, for those whose English (be it High or Low) isn’t their first language, a bruin is a bear: A bear there was, A bear, A BEAR! All black and gold; Toronto beware!

  21. Yago
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Anyone knew Arya could sing?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h2h4zIhwuM

  22. dobesol
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    “I called for a knight!
    But you’re a bear!”

    I’m so essited! I love GRRM! I love GoT! And mostly I love the Hound!

  23. Greg
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    I WANNA KNOW WHO “BOY” IS
    (to d&d) I WANT YOU TO SHOW ME

    Also:
    -Bear Pit!
    -Sam the Slayer! (probably)
    -Beginning of the hound and wolf roadtrip of doom!
    -I swear, if Jaime doesn’t ask Roose to give Robb his regards I will punch a wall.

  24. ebevan91
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    Greg:
    I WANNA KNOW WHO “BOY” IS
    (to d&d) I WANT YOU TO SHOW ME

    Also:
    -Bear Pit!
    -Sam the Slayer! (probably)
    -Beginning of the hound and wolf roadtrip of doom!
    -I swear, if Jaime doesn’t ask Roose to give Robb his regards I will punch a wall.

    Since it’s a GRRM episode I think we’ll get that line. Unless it’s one of those scenes that he did not write.

  25. Michael274
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    Your Mothers Panties,

    The trolling is strong in this one .

  26. ebevan91
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    Michael274:
    Your Mothers Panties,

    The trolling is strong in this one .

    I can’t even understand half of the person’s post.

  27. Yago
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    Michael274,

    The name says it all really!

  28. Villane
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

    ebevan91,

    Grizz fan for real. Loved going to yesterday’s game! The grindhouse was rocking!

  29. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    Where are Ned’s bones right now? I don’t remember hearing anything about Maege Mormont being cast. We need to be informed they’re going north. There are hints in ADWD that they may be important.

  30. ebevan91
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    Villane:
    ebevan91,

    Grizz fan for real. Loved going to yesterday’s game! The grindhouse was rocking!

    I’ve never been to a Grizzlies game. Only Tigers games. I need to fix that next season.

  31. Yago
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Cat sent them north with the silent sisters I believe.

  32. Daemon
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    I say we get Sam the Slayer tonight. I believe the guy playing the walker is cast this episode and there’s no reason to have the dragon glass intro two or more episodes in advance.

  33. Derek
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

    Joan Català,

    I think we’ll see Davos showing Stannis the letter and urging him to sail to the wall; some dramatic sequence along those lines that could set up Stannis’ arrival there for potentially the first episode of the next season. Really kick it off right.

    Also, I really hate spoiler tags, just read the books people! The series is one of the best things on television, and the books are EVEN BETTER.

  34. Anne
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    I hope we get something of real substance in a Bran scene. His storyline is suffering, and the supernatural/magical aspect is not coming across well. (or coming across at all)

  35. ebevan91
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    Derek:
    Joan Català,

    I think we’ll see Davos showing Stannis the letter and urging him to sail to the wall; some dramatic sequence along those lines that could set up Stannis’ arrival there for potentially the first episode of the next season. Really kick it off right.

    Also, I really hate spoiler tags, just read the books people! The series is one of the best things on television, and the books are EVEN BETTER.

    I hate when people say “just read the books!”

    It’s not like they can be read overnight.

  36. Derek
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    Derek,

    Also, to clarify I don’t think that will happen in THIS episode; I think that will be the last Stannis-Davos-Mel-Dragonstone stuff we get from this season.

  37. Derek
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

    ebevan91,

    Haha I know, not entirely serious with that remark. I just hate the damn spoiler tag; it’s more fun to talk about the ways D&D will make adaptations and speculate on GRRM’s futures for characters with people who’ve read, that’s all.

    Obviously they take a ton of time to read.

  38. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    Derek,

    I don’t think Davos will get the letter until early next season. At most the final scene at the Wall this season will be the ravens being sent out asking for aid.

  39. Sami
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    More mance stuff please!

  40. Your Mothers Panties
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    ebevan91: I can’t even understand half of the person’s post.

    To the both of you jerks : i am a great fan of got, i love it its my favourite story nowadays..

    Just because u are sheep without any semblance of critical thinking doesnt mean other fans of the show are…i can love it and dislike many aspects of it all the same…

    You sound like those fans-groupies of adaptations that consider anyone who criticizes the adaptation as trolls..i am familiar with your kind…

    Yes this seasons jons and wildlings story has been pityfull, short, flat and rushed..

    Major disappointment considering how important jon is and how much fun it wd be to see these moments done justice…

    And my name says sense of humor…

    Clearly, you have none…

  41. LordDavos12
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Her name…

    …is Brienne.

  42. Ser Tahu
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    Your Mothers Panties,

    Although I haven’t had as much of a problem with it this season, I must admit that I have been very disappointed with they way they have handled Jon, especially in season 2. Jon’s storyline from book 2 would have translated brilliantly to the screen, but instead they wanted to have him wander around with Ygritte doing absolutely nothing. This season has been a bit better, but they have definitely toned down the wildlings personalities (eg Tormund no longer makes penis jokes in every second thing he says).

  43. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    Your Mothers Panties,

    Just tell me that the common tongue(English) isn’t your first language and I will be more understanding.

  44. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    LordDavos12,

    Jaime: “Brienne the Maid of Tarth. You are still maiden, I hope?”
    Brienne: “…Yes….”
    Jaime: “Good. I only rescue maidens.”

    Gods I hope they kept that dialogue!

  45. ebevan91
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    Your Mothers Panties: To the both of you jerks : i am a great fan of got, i love it its my favourite story nowadays..

    Just because u are sheep without any semblance of critical thinking doesnt mean other fans of the show are…i can love it and dislike many aspects of it all the same…

    You sound like those fans-groupies of adaptations that consider anyone who criticizes the adaptation as trolls..i am familiar with your kind…

    Yes this seasons jons and wildlings story has been pityfull, short, flat and rushed..

    Major disappointment considering how important jon is and how much fun it wd be to see these moments done justice…

    And my name says sense of humor…

    Clearly, you have none…

    I didn’t even say I agree or disagree with you. I was just saying your post is hard to read.

  46. Eleanor
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    LOVED last episode unlike many naysayers. When it comes to action, it didn’t get much better than that climb.

    That said, this ep definitely has the potential to top it! Especially since Tywin’s due to beat down Joffrey.

  47. Shan
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    LordDavos12,

    Jaime: “Brienne the Maid of Tarth. You are still maiden, I hope?”
    Brienne: “…Yes….”
    Jaime: “Good. I only rescue maidens.”

    Gods I hope they kept that dialogue!

    NOBODY HAS YET REFERRED TO HER AS THE ‘MAID OF TARTH,’ THO. Brienne the Beauty, yes, Maid of Tarth, no. Nothing they couldn’t get around with a little rewording of the exchange, but I sure hope they put in the effort.

  48. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    Mike Chair,

    Or, you could watch GoT, and follow the B’s on NESN’s game blog. That’s what I do when the Sox have a night game on a Sunday. Then tomorrow (or at Midnight), watch Bruins in Two. Here’s hoping the B’s do better tonight than the Sox did this afternoon…

  49. Your Mothers Panties
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion, dont slap me!!! It isnt my mother tuuungue, u are correct. Apologies for that.

    Tahu : indeed…instead of having invented stuff, we could have had one or two scenes between jon, mance and tormund where they show him who the wildling really are, they share stories …we could have had a montage of scenes just 3 minutes long where we cd see the evolution of jons and ygrittes love affair like in the book…it is so much fun to read that …instead the whole thing feels rushed and void..why does tormund like jon? why does yg want to stay there forever? where is the chrisma and charm that mance displays in the novel…

  50. Caro H
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    ebevan91,

    Endless Giraffe,

    I agree. Those chapters and for me Sansa building the Winterfell snow castle are one of my favourite bits in Storms.

    WeirdwoodTreeHugger, aaaa I know, that part is great but we don’t even have Stranger to join them as they cross the Trident :/

    Ebevan91, hopefully it’s been moved to the next episode or they do show Sandor kidnapping her early on tonight and then we can have at least one more interaction with them for this episode, and that could be the trident crossing or something. but i’m probably just having too high expectations

  51. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    Shan,

    Qyburn can inform him that he examined her and her maidenhood was still intact, same as in the book. I believe that is the first time Jaime learns that she is a maid anyway.

  52. SHK12344
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    Expect to see more ass tonight

  53. Chrisie
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    The Jon stuff has been disappointing and unfortunately it’s not just the writing Kit Harrington is just not all that great of an actor. and this has me worried about the future, Jon has A LOT to do and if he can’t become a more compelling actor it might ruin a very large portion of later seasons. (and again, it’s not just him the writing for him needs to be better too). .

  54. Deekan
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    pntrlqst,

    I Lolled!

  55. Sami
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    Chrisie,

    I disagree, I think Kit Harington is a great talented actor and is doing a wonderful job as Jon Snow, He is playing it very true to the ways of the book and is bringing his own. I agree about the turn around for the future but…. I believe he will do a good job.

  56. Shan
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Shan,

    Qyburn can inform him that he examined her and her maidenhood was still intact, same as in the book. I believe that is the first time Jaime learns that she is a maid anyway.

    Yeah, absoultey — I’m actually guessing that that will be the thing that finally makes up his mind to make him turn around, since it looks like there won’t be a dream sequence.

    Virginity is just so much easier to work into a sentence if it’s part of someone’s official title! “Her name is Brienne, and she’s a virgin! Right? Right!” is just a lot more awkward than “Her name is Brienne. Brienne, the Maid of Tarth.” I’m sure they’ll figure out a way around it, though. They haven’t disappointed so far.

  57. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

    Love Stranger. Would rather have him included than Belwas or Edric Storm I think.

  58. ebevan91
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    Jon is dull in the books so Kit fits the part :)

  59. Jillybean
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    Just excited to see GRRM’s episode. And slightly tipsy already. Mother’s Day has been very good to me. Thanks to my sun and stars and the rug-rat dragons. Last week wasn’t my favorite, but still the best tv out there. Can’t wait to see hubby’s reaction to RW. Might have to record it, but that might give it away! “Why are you recording me, honey? Is something going to happen?” Haha

  60. ebevan91
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    Jillybean:
    Just excited to see GRRM’s episode. And slightly tipsy already. Mother’s Day has been very good to me. Thanks to my sun and stars and the rug-rat dragons.Last week wasn’t my favorite, but still the best tv out there. Can’t wait to see hubby’s reaction to RW.Might have to record it, but that might give it away! “Why are you recording me, honey? Is something going to happen?” Haha

    Hidden camera if possible.

  61. ViewerFromFrance
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

    and who are you the proud lord said
    than i must bow so low…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

  62. rubahtics
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    @Mike Chair: sorry mate, but I picked the Leafs in my bracket(though as a Pens fan I would love to see that match-up in the Eastern Final).

    Definitely I hope the Jon storyline gets more meat on it. And maybe we could get more than 90 seconds of Mance this season. Looking forward to seeing where they go with the stuff that got changed from the books. Should be fun.

    …go leafs

  63. ViewerFromFrance
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    brynden rivers >>>>>>>>>>>>>

  64. A-Gone
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    Could we make this a thing ? Recording people’s reaction to episode 9 ? Hidden camera so the unsullied don’t suspect anything… Sounds fun :)

  65. Stone Cold Bastard
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

    Anne,

    Couldn’t agree more. We need to see more of Bran and less of Joffrey/Marg. Bran’s story is one of the most compelling and fascinating, yet all we’ve gotten so far are drips and drabs.

    Regarding the RW, look what I found on a random Google image search, seems that this was leaked (?):

    http://24.media.tumblr.com/97b4e9f285422d998d4b53325dd33e23/tumblr_mk6f68R4YZ1qf6yj4o1_500.png

  66. Ser Tahu
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    A-Gone,

    I watch Game of Thrones with a neighbour who hasn’t read the books, so filming peoples reactions could potentially be a thing that happens :P.

  67. ebevan91
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard:
    Anne,

    Couldn’t agree more. We need to see more of Bran and less of Joffrey/Marg. Bran’s story is one of the most compelling and fascinating, yet all we’ve gotten so far are drips and drabs.

    Regarding the RW, look what I found on a random Google image search, seems that this was leaked (?):

    http://24.media.tumblr.com/97b4e9f285422d998d4b53325dd33e23/tumblr_mk6f68R4YZ1qf6yj4o1_500.png

    That shot was in a trailer earlier this year.

    A leaked screenshot wouldn’t look that good.

  68. JamesL
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard,

    That was in a trailer.

  69. Skyofwelkup
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard,

    Yeah, that’s a screengrab from one of the red carpet videos. There are some wallpaper-sized versions out there too.

  70. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    It seems like unsullied have figured out the RW more or less. That’s why I hope UnCat rises in the finale. No one could guess that.

  71. Jillybean
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    A-Gone,

    If I can figure it out, hidden camera will happen!

  72. Mariamb18
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    rubahtics:

    Definitely I hope the Jon storyline gets more meat on it.And maybe we could get more than 90 seconds of Mance this season.Looking forward to seeing where they go with the stuff that got changed from the books.Should be fun.

    I think this is a good way of stating the problem with Jon’s storyline (and the entire Beyond the Wall storyline). Up until now in the show, it has lacked substance. It’s not the acting. I think that the amount of time given to Jon’s journey and/or the way that time has been used has been ineffective.

    Time (or lack thereof) is the main enemy of this show and it is evident in Jon’s story.

  73. Scott Glennon
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    Alright! Laundry done, Popcorn popped, Wicnet…operational, twitter…set. 5 minutes! Look sharp people!

    For Winterfell!

  74. Endless Giraffe
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    3 minutes

  75. Lin Beifunk
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    It’s so messed up that the season is almost done. :’(

  76. Stone Cold Bastard
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    Skyofwelkup,

    Any chance that red carpet trailer made it to Youtube? (probably not)

  77. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

    Lin Beifunk:
    It’s so messed up that the season is almost done. :’(

    We will see that horrible screen that says “only three episodes left”

  78. Skyofwelkup
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQE1K4q9LZk
    @ 1:40. It’s only a few frames. A second-long shot of Cat turning her head.

  79. Deekan
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

    For guys complaining about the “har”, if you rewatch the last ep., Tormund does say har in the climb prep scene though it kinda sounds like heh.

  80. MyBFFTheHound
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

    Pregnancy confirmed!

  81. MyBFFTheHound
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    Orell hitting on Ygritte? Eh…?

  82. Butterbumps
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    Wtf is going on in this episode? All these ‘added’ scenes are so friggin’ weird.

  83. LordDavos12
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

    MyBFFTheHound,

    I think it’s supposed to set up Jon killing him

  84. MyBFFTheHound
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

    Okay, seriously, what the fuck is this?

  85. Butterbumps
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

    I think I’ll need a second/third/fourth viewing to have all these additions sink in. Definitely not things that hit me as “genius” as some other scenes have been.

  86. Jared
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

    MyBFFTheHound,

    And … every purist over on Westeros.org just spontaneously combusted.

  87. LordDavos12
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

    Oooooh the chains

  88. MyBFFTheHound
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

    :D

    That Dany-scene was boss.

  89. Butterbumps
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

    Haha, this episode is completely filled with non-book scenes, just like a couple of previous episodes are completely book-based. Thank Goodness it’s written by GRRM himself, otherwise it will be bashed to death.

  90. Dwayne Roberts
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    JUST SEEING CATS FACE IN THAT PIC MAKES ME WANNA CRY ….SHES AN EXCELLENT ACTRESS

  91. LordDavos12
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    Oh god this is going to be brutal

  92. Butterbumps
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    Theon still thinks this has a happy ending. He really should have been paying attention!

  93. LordDavos12
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    hodor

  94. Shane snow
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    These episodes go by way to fast

  95. LordDavos12
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:54 pm | Permalink

    Ahh it’s coming!

  96. coronaking
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

    Jared:
    MyBFFTheHound, And … every purist over on Westeros.org just spontaneously combusted.

    I thought the same thing! ^^

  97. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

    Sorry about the sapphires.
    Ha!!

  98. Richard
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    Theon Greyjoy visited the Castle Anthrax this week (Monty Python and the Holy Grail)

  99. Arthur
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    What an amazing episode!

  100. ebevan91
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

    I think I just became a Dany fan.

  101. Stone Cold Bastard
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

    Benioff and Weiss are sick fucks.

    That did not happen in ADWD – page 473 confirms this.

    That will be a scene to always fast forward through once S3 is out on BluRay.

    Disgusted.

  102. Shan
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

    Theories confirmed by GR-frikkin-RM (at least in the show continuity):

    1. Pregnancy
    2. The Tragedy of Little Theon

    Things I never, ever thought I would hear and still don’t know how to feel about:

    1. Romantic string version of Rains of Castamere

    Wait, I do know how to feel about that. That was awesome.

  103. Scott Glennon
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

    Wondering about Osha’s monologue. Did GRRM write that? Maybe a chance to go deeper into the character? I don’t remember that in the books…Wondering if George didn’t approach the whole episode that way…

    For Winterfell!

  104. The Purist
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    GRRM moment to shine to show the hacks how good writing is done!

  105. Yago
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    First reaction: No “Jaime Lannister sends his regards” and no “I only rescue maidens”… Pity.

  106. Richard
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:06 pm | Permalink
  107. coronaking
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard: That did not happen in ADWD – page 473 confirms this.

    What are you referring to?
    Also, George Martin worte this episode.

  108. ebevan91
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    Scott Glennon:
    Wondering about Osha’s monologue. Did GRRM write that? Maybe a chance to go deeper into the character? I don’t remember that in the books…Wondering if George didn’t approach the whole episode that way…

    For Winterfell!

    He said he really likes the TV show version of Osha so I guess so.

  109. LordDavos12
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    Yago:
    First reaction: No “Jaime Lannister sends his regards” and no “I only rescue maidens”… Pity.

    At least there was “The Lannisters send their regards.” I’m irritated that the other wasn’t in though.

  110. MyBFFTheHound
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    When was Rains playing?

  111. Timmen
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    They missed a great oppurtunity I think, Jaime shoving Locke into the bear pit would’ve been a sweet ending and way for Locke to die… can’t think of a better way going forward really..

  112. Shan
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

    LordDavos12: At least there was “The Lannisters send their regards.”I’m irritated that the other wasn’t in though.

    Yeah, not gonna be the same, though. I mean, playing “The Rains of Castamere” basically IS saying that they Lannisters send their regards.

  113. LordDavos12
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

    MyBFFTheHound:
    When was Rains playing?

    Credits

  114. coronaking
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    MyBFFTheHound:
    When was Rains playing?

    It was the music in the credits.

  115. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    It was implied in ADWD that Theon’s bits were altered

  116. Shan
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    MyBFFTheHound,

    Credits!

  117. Chrisie
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

    Well darn it. I’ve been defending Theon’s story this season ans now I just fell like a sadist for it. That was not at all necessary.

  118. Yellow Dog
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    Yago,

    “Jaime Lannister sends his regards” is said by Roose Bolton as he delivers the killing blow to Robb Stark at the Red Wedding. What’s missing in addition to “I only rescue maidens” is “Her name is Brienne.”

  119. JamesL
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    Splitting ASOS for 2 full seasons was a mistake, I knew it would it would be a bad idea when I first heard they were going to do that. They couldn’t cover the entire book in 10 episodes but that doesn’t mean to have 2 full season for that 1 book. There has been too much filler in these last 2 episodes and barely anything from the book.

  120. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

    “Qyburn: How many have you saved?
    Jaime: Half a million
    Qyburn:…
    Jaime: Population of King’s Landing”
    LOVE IT!
    Also, Jaime Lannister sends his regards WOOT!
    And
    Sansa:”How do you know all that? Did your mother tell you?”
    Margeary: Wow, you’re naive “Uh… yes, sweet girl, she did”
    And Tywin totally trolled Joffrey, which was awesome.

  121. Michel
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

    After seen Talisa writing another letter I’m 80% sure that she is really a spy.

  122. Impi
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    King’s Landing After Dark, the new HBO reality series, as suggested by Sansa.

  123. HalfWarg
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    What an awful episode, literally, one of the worst of the entire series.

  124. pntrlqst
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    Splitting it wasn’t a mistake. Not having the RW in episode eight and the PW in the finale was a mistake. The Robb/Cat storyline is so minuscule in the grand scheme of things, it has no business taking nine episodes to tell.

  125. Valdred Dethstorm
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

    The Bear Pit was disappointing in my opinion. Bart looked about as fierce as a little kitten, seriously.

  126. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

    Wow, you just can’t please some people, I guess.

  127. Timmen
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    I think the highlight of the episode was dany’s scene

  128. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    pntrlqst:
    JamesL,

    The Robb/Cat storyline is so minuscule in the grand scheme of things, it has no business taking nine episodes to tell.

    Butterfly effect, dude, butterfly effect. It might not, itself, have done much but the effects continue through ADWD in the form of Lady Stoneheart

  129. Yellow Dog
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

    BRONN!!!! Dead-on as always. “Evil notions come free.”

    Getting VERY concerned about Shae’s fate. Despite being a book reader, I love getting surprised by the differences in the show. However, making Shae into Tyrion’s true love threatens genuine violence to future events – GRRM authorship notwithstanding.

    Not to mention Margary giving Sansa the good marriage advice she should have gotten but didn’t.

  130. pntrlqst
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

    wargsareawesome,

    Yes, I mean everything previously building to it (in the TV show) has not warranted it take so much time.

  131. Ryan E
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

    Loved it, good episode.

  132. ebevan91
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    Timmen:
    I think the highlight of the episode was dany’s scene

    By far.

  133. MrsWun
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    Valdred Dethstorm,
    Me, I soiled my armor during that pit scene. Bunny advocates from last week rejoice, we didn’t see Bart “die” at the end.

  134. Yellow Dog
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    Impi,

    Starring BRONN! And Ros!

  135. Stone Cold Bastard
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    coronaking,

    Page 473:

    He wanted to hit her, to smash that mocking smile off her face. He wanted to kiss her, to fuck her right there on the table and make her cry his name. But he knew he dare not touch her, in anger or in lust. Reek, Reek, my name is Reek. I must not forget my name. He jerked to his feet and made his way wordlessly to the doors, limping on his maimed feet.

  136. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    Jaime did send his regards, people. Why else would Stoneheart go on a rampage to catch and kill Jaime if not for ‘Jaime Lannister sends his regards’? The Lannisters send their regards doesn’t have the same ring to it and it also doesn’t implicate Jaime in the massacre.

    Anyway, this was a great episode. Who gives a flying fuck if the scenes weren’t directly from the book? This isn’t the books. Get that through your minds for once and for all. Guess what else, there will be no Queenscrown. Instead it will just be a windmill that Bran and co. hide in. And it won’t change a damned thing either.

    Bravo, George! Easily up there with episodes 4 and 5 as the best of the season.

  137. JamesL
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    pntrlqst,

    Splitting it and dedicating 2 full seasons to it was the mistake. If they got up to the PW in ep 10 which is what I wanted then to do them these last 2 episodes would feel so lackluster and full of filler. It amount of filler and slow pace will be even more of an issue next season.

  138. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Thank the Gods! A fellow voice of reason!

  139. Liana
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    I loved the episode. I read the books and I’m just glad I get the opportunity to see it come to life thanks to HBO and D&D even though they don’t get it 100% perfect all the time.

  140. Ryan E
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    Yunkai scene was great. Dany is just killing it this season.

  141. Nancy
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    Chrisie,

    I am worried about Jon too. Kit just does not cut it for me (looks wise, yes…acting wise, no). Both my husband and I said, the bear scene was better in the show then the books and Jon/Ygritte is better in the books then the show.
    Seems like GRRM comfirmed two things: A Stark heir and another reason for the RW to stomp on my heart and toss it out the window and Theon being minus a part.
    I am glad Osha got a little extra background story and we are starting to see the divide in Camp Bran. Ygritte sure is not getting the anvils both Jon and Orell are dropping on her head ( or she is choosing to ignore them). I liked how they had Jaime realize that Brienne is peril and why he had to go back to get her. I also liked, as crazy as Joffrey is, that he was actually showing more foresight then his plan for everything grandfather. Interesting little bit of role reversal there.
    I liked this episode much better then last weeks…a definite 8 or 9 out of 10.

  142. Timmen
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    So talisa is a spy then? Why did they need to manufacture this storyline? Or is this hinted in the books jeyne was spying or something, idk.

  143. Scott Glennon
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    The Highlight for me was anything with Rose Leslie..”But first we live..” ♥♥♥♥ *sigh*

    For Winterfell

  144. PatD
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    LOVED last episode unlike many naysayers. When it comes to action, it didn’t get much better than that climb.

    I re-watched it, and I couldn’t agree more. Those shots looking down on Jon and Ygritte as they were falling and hanging there, the swinging back and forth… Jeez, people, think how hard that stuff had to be to choreograph, shoot, and edit. I thought it was fantastic.

    I just came here to rave about tonight’s show, the way Nic and Gwen are killing it this year (did anyone else get misty-eyed during their goodbye scene?), the added twists for the show (I *like* not knowing every damn thing that’s going to happen. I’m starting to hope they even give some new twists to the RW), and I can’t believe how beautifully realized and presented Dany’s story is this year, when I was bored to tears by it in the book.

    So glad I’m not a purist and can enjoy this epic series for the awesome thing it is.

  145. persephone88
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    Loved the bear scene – wish Locke had somehow gotten his just desserts. Nikolaj Coster Waldau and Gwen Christie are owning those parts this season. I also like how Qyburn is really underplaying what a sicko he is

    I thought the Tywin / Joff scene was a little flat – needed more interaction between those two before Joff got all cowed. Loved Peter Dinklage in his Shae scene – just feel so bad for him! And Margaery’s little quip about her mother teaching her…well done.

    The Theon scene was WAY too long – again. Good gosh, give Alfie Allen some forward plot momentum, PLEASE. I feel like he and the actor playing Boy are not being used well, this repetitive torture stuff – ugh. We GET it, guys, can we move on please?

    And the dragons looked GREAT – wow, are they growing! But where are the direwolves???

  146. Liana
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    I loved the episode.

    I read the books and I’m just glad I get the opportunity to see it come to life thanks to HBO and D&D even though they don’t get it 100% perfect all the time. I feel like some people need to do some more appreciating and less complaining.

  147. Deekan
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

    Some people were just born to bitch.

  148. Impi
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

    Yellow Dog:
    Impi,

    Starring BRONN! And Ros!

    I think we have a new hit! :)
    To be referred to as KLAD by the hipsters.

  149. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    Who gives a flying fuck if the scenes weren’t directly from the book? This isn’t the books. Get that through your minds for once and for all.

    This needs to be emblazoned across the top of the website for all perpetuity.

  150. Liana
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:28 pm | Permalink
  151. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

    wargsareawesome,

    I came here expecting universal acclaim and all I see are complaints that it wasn’t exactly as it was in the books. Nevermind the fact that Jon’s scenes in this episode were his best since season 1. Or that Theon’s torture scene was the first worthwhile one this season(Nice one, George). Dany’s scene was her second best in a strong season. I finally cared about Robb for once. Oh, and I haven’t even mentioned the King’s Landing scenes, which were superb. I was thoroughly entertained and that is all that matters. Fuck the rest and their opinions. Ratings keep going up and I’m sure another Emmy nomination is around the corner, and deservedly so.

  152. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    This episode was not filler.
    We learned that Bran is going to the 3 Eyed Raven instead of Castle Black
    We saw that Jon still thinks of himself as a crow and the wildlings are “you” not “us”
    We got tension in the relationship between Tyrion and Shae. We maybe are introduced to a murder weapon in that scene.
    We got the info that Talisa is pregnant. That opens a whole can of worms.
    For the first time Jaime relied on his brain instead of his sword fighting prowess to solve a problem.
    Then the show ended with a cool action scene.

  153. Shan
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh,

    Or you guys could, you know, accept that debating the differences between the adaptation and the original is one of the things that a lot of people come here for because they enjoy doing it with other people who enjoy doing it too?

    There are threads for people who only care about the show and not the books, but EVERY thread isn’t just for people who don’t care about the books. That seems a little greedy. You guys get to have your fun. Let us have ours, too.

  154. Ser Osis of Liver
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

    What a hot f—ing mess. This episode felt utterly disjointed and unappealing. I was expecting a dry aged prime porterhouse and got an overcooked sirloin. Yes, it was something palatable but nothing to savour or enjoy. The magnificent chemistry between Jamie and Brienne evaporated this week, and what should have been a great scene in the pit looked like it was phoned in.

    I get that it’s an adaptation and things have to differ from the printed page. Tonight’s changes just didn’t work. I wonder how much was Gurm and how much was D&D tonight. I think something really got lost in translation.

    On a personal level, I was really hoping that the monologue from Osha about her lover coming back as a wight would have segued into Sam the Slayer and I was deeply disappointed when this didn’t happen. I also thought it would have featured Queenscrown. We got a bit of FunTormund, but in an episode named the Bear and the Maiden Fair we couldn’t have gotten “husband to bears” or a tale of his member–perhaps leading right into the Theon stuff? Sorry, it only gets a D from me this week.

  155. BalerionTheBlacDread
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

    In the grad scheme of things, this episode will go down as the weakest of season 3.

    Good points:

    Hodor
    Danny’s introduction in Yunkai
    Jamie and Brienne in general
    The political moves foced by the lannister/stark wedding
    Osha backstory

    Weak points:

    Tywin and Joffrey (great acting but the script was severely lacking content)
    Theon….c’mon, completely unnecessary
    Orell and Ygritte romance
    Bear pit rescue was less than stellar for an episode closer
    Angry at everyone Osha
    Sex for the sake of sex, lacking the exposition part

  156. The Purist
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

    Butterbumps:
    Haha, this episode is completely filled with non-book scenes, just like a couple of previous episodes are completely book-based.Thank Goodness it’s written by GRRM himself, otherwise it will be bashed to death.

    Remember what Brian Cogman said in an interview that D&D gets final say in what goes into the script. If there’s anything wrong with GRRM’s script in this episode, most of the blame will go to the terrible duo, so I doubt book readers, those who aren’t mental anyway, will go after George himself. The problems started when D&D’s ego inflated after season 1 and claim ownership to George’ story and added their own stupid scenes i.e. Pod and the whores, Joffery & whore spanking scene, many of Littlefinger scenes, that woman married to Robb, etc. You can tell GRRM isn’t totally happy with the changes when he asked to give new names to some of the characters of the show.

    Tyrion Pimpslap: Who gives a flying fuck if the scenes weren’t directly from the book? This isn’t the books. Get that through your minds for once and for all.

    Don’t blame us because you people are either illiterate or too lazy to read the books. Scenes that have been added in the show will NEVER be better than the stuff that happened in the books, that’s a fact, son. Because I’m sure many won’t put the whore spanking scene and others like it as their most favorite scene in the show.

  157. allen
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:33 pm | Permalink
  158. MRR
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

    Timmen:
    So talisa is a spy then? Why did they need to manufacture this storyline? Or is this hinted in the books jeyne was spying or something, idk.

    Throughout the books it’s ambiguous whether Jeyne was “genuine” or if she (or her family) was set up by the Lannisters to trick Robb out of his vows with Walder Frey so that they could turn the Freys against the North. Jeyne herself is never directly accused of being a spy, but there are implications that her family was “in on it” from the start. Many people have suggested that “Talisa” was actually a (conflicted) spy, since that would be an efficient way to condense the complicated family dynamics plot from the books into something more digestible for television.

  159. bliss_street
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    Second “meh” episode in a row.

  160. Valdred Dethstorm
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    Ep. 4 will be hard to top, that’s for sure. I doubt any of the remaining episodes will surpass it. For me, this one was the weakest, and it was written by GRRM himself.
    I’m already sick of Theon and the repetitive torture scenes.

  161. Michel
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    I can’t believe the non-book readers hasn’t descovered yet that Theon is been kept by the Boltons? The horn that Ramsay is playing to wake Theon for two episode was played in all the scenes from the s2 finale in the Siege of Winterfell

  162. LordStarkington
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    Was a bit disappointed by the bear pit scene and a couple of altered lines from the books but overall liked this episode. Specifically, I felt it did a great job with some characters/relationships that have been somewhat hit or miss (Robb/Talisa and Jon/Ygritte in particular). I liked it less than last week’s, but still thought it did its part.

    I do wish they’d lay off the Theon storyline if all we’ll be getting is torture scenes (I’m a book reader so I know where it’s going, but I’m not sure how much value there is in spending this much time on it right now)

  163. KG
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    Go Wings :)

  164. Mariamb18
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    Loved the episode. There was a sense of foreboding in every scene. The dragons were spectacular. Nikolaj and Gwen are just marvelous together. They convey so much without saying a word. Natalie Dormer has transformed Margaery.

    Really surprised about Talisa’s pregnancy. Not sure what this means about Jeyne Westerling…if it means anything at all. And I guess that we now have the catalyst for Bran and Rickon’s split.

    I’m getting very uncomfortable with the Theon torture scenes. I know that I am supposed to be uncomfortable but it is starting to wear me down.

  165. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    BalerionTheBlacDread,

    It was better than episodes 1,2, and 6. How was the Tywin and Joffrey scene lacking content? It finally melded together Dany’s story with the goings on in Westeros. That is better than everyone walking around and not even acknowledging that she exists. Frankly, the lack of info in KL about the dragons in the books was disappointing.

  166. JamesL
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    Ser Osis of Liver,

    I was hoping for Sam the Slayer too, now it looks like there are combining that scene with the arival of Coldhands which means we won’t get the scene where Sam and Gilly are attacked and surrounded by wights. The last thing this show needs to be doing is editing out exciting moments like that.

  167. Lin Beifunk
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

    Eh, I liked it. Not the best episode this season, but nothing to complain about, really.

    If I ever vehemently dislike something in this show, it’s usually about characters I don’t like anyway — nothing any of the cast/crew did.

  168. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think you have to worry about any more Theon/torture scenes until the finale. And by then we will finally get the reveal of Ramsay.

  169. House Snow
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    BalerionTheBlacDread,

    It was better than episodes 1,2, and 6.How was the Tywin and Joffrey scene lacking content? It finally melded together Dany’s story with the goings on in Westeros. That is better than everyone walking around and not even acknowledging that she exists. Frankly, the lack of info in KL about the dragons in the books was disappointing.

    I think people were expecting him to be more stern with Joffrey. The only really insulting thing he said to him was carrying him up the tower.

  170. PrinceTheon
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

    Why do people ask why Theon is being tortured so much? First off, he’s tortured WAY more in the book. And secondly…

    First torture: show he’s being held by enemies, and introduce Boy, and set up a twist that “Boy” is bad.

    Second torture: playful game with a twist that people think he is a Karstark. Introduce flaying.

    Third torture: Castration. They DIDNT SHOW IT for everyone complaining. This isn’t even as bad as Varys explaining his cutting and Kraznys explaining the Unsullied cutting. This is his breaking point. Give him his favorite thing in the world, then cause him to never be able to experience it again.

    This is showing his transformation to Reek. It HAS to be a lot. People don’t just forget who they are, develop Stockholm Syndrome, and think they are a completely different person just because they’re hung from an X for a couple months. If Reek is just introduced in Season 5, people will not believe that he’s really a different person in his mind. Unlike in the book, we cannot get into his head to see his past. It has to be shown, or else “Oh, I go by Reek now” would be completely unbelievable.

    /rant

  171. wycoff
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

    7.5/10

    Good episode, not great. A bit choppy overall- the Dany and Jaime / Brienne scenes were great, the Arya, Melisandre / Gendry, and Theon scenes were not very good, everything else was decent. You can tell that GRRM wrote this episode, as it had as much gratuitous sex as ADWD. I’m getting sick of watching the Theon torture; I get why it’s done, but I don’t think that it needs to be shown every single episode. Afterall, the show has left out other storylines for a few weeks at a time. Why not give the Theon story a rest. Afterall, Theon has all of season 4 to be tortured as well.

    I enjoyed the episode overall, but I’m surprised that arguably the weakest episode of the season was written by GRRM.

  172. Yago
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

    Personally, I thought this was the worst (or least good) episode of the season, with the exception of the premiere. That doesn’t have anything to do with the changes, it’s just that… I don’t know… It was a bit boring, not much happening.

  173. Shan
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    MRR,

    Yeah, it’s pretty clear in the books that Jeyne’s mother and at least one of her brothers was in on the RW — hence the rewards that Jaime hands out to them (along with a heaping helping of contempt) after the war.

    Talisa doesn’t have a family in Westeros, so a popular theory is that she, herself, is the one in on it. There was a video circulating for a while about it — a video that was pretty fixated on one of Tywin’s lines from season 2: “Robb Stark won’t make a mistake. Not without our help.”

    Certainly not confirmed, but one of the many theories out there. I don’t know that her getting killed at the RW would necessarily disprove it, either.

  174. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    Shan:
    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh,

    Or you guys could, you know, accept that debating the differences between the adaptation and the original is one of the things that a lot of people come here for because they enjoy doing it with other people who enjoy doing it too?

    There are threads for people who only care about the show and not the books, but EVERY thread isn’t just for people who don’t care about the books. That seems a little greedy. You guys get to have your fun. Let us have ours, too.

    Debating’s fine, I like to read a good debate, and I never attacked anyone for doing so (you’re a little touchy for leaping to that conclusion). I’m addressing those that pop up merely to say “if it’s different from the book, then = it’s crap”. THAT is bloody boring. But by all means debate away.

  175. kelly
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    Enjoyed this episode a lot. Dany rocks and the interaction between Jaime and Brienne is my favorite thing about this season. And thank GRRM for a sex scene that actually included some intimacy. Bravo!

    However, I don’t think that Talisa’s pregnancy necessarily confirms that Jeyne Westerling is or was pregnant in the books. I think Talisa’s fate at the RW will tell us that. If she lives and is taken captive then I would think that more or less confirms that Jeyne is alive and pregnant in the books. But if Talisa dies at the RW then it would seem that Jeyne is inconsequential. At least it seems that way to me.

    No idea when I should use spoilers so I figured better safe.

  176. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

    PrinceTheon,

    Seconded!

  177. Andrew
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

    PrinceTheon,

    That last bit hit the nail right on the head. Well said, indeed!

  178. PatD
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

    Or you guys could, you know, accept that debating the differences between the adaptation and the original is one of the things that a lot of people come here for because they enjoy doing it with other people who enjoy doing it too?

    I think it’s hilarious that people are bitching about changes that GRRM has not only fully endorsed but to which he’s contributed.

    But all that aside, there’s very little actual debating going on in most of these bitch-fests. Debate insinuates the consideration of opposing points and argumentative reasoning. How can people possibly know how effective the changes will be until the thing ends??? Judging the differences and damning them without knowledge of the endgame is just folly… and certainly not debate.

    But, hey, if that’s your idea of enjoying the show, have at it. But just because other book-readers are finding the series stunning doesn’t mean they are sheep. It just means they can differentiate between the two mediums.

    I could seriously get into all these discussions about the differences between the books and the episodes if it all wasn’t so damn old and boring and the same old same old.

  179. Lin Beifunk
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    Shan,

    I think the vid is “Roose Change: The Lannister Honeypot” on YouTube. If not, still a good one.

  180. MRR
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:44 pm | Permalink

    A lot of people are complaining about the Theon storyline this season. A lot of people don’t seem to fully grasp that this story is more about character development than about “plot”. Sure, not a lot is “happening” in terms of plot, but what we’re seeing is necessary in order to convey the gruesome depths of the changes happening to Theon’s character. In the books we get to read his thoughts directly; the show can’t do that, so it has to communicate this change in a different way.

    If it were just a scene of Theon getting tortured and then suddenly he’s Reek, viewers wouldn’t have an appreciation of the helplessness and defeat Theon feels. Going through this now, in all of its perverse and sadistic detail, helps to prevent people from just thinking “C’mon bro just snap out of it, stop being such a bitch!” when they see what Theon is involved with later on. Hopefully this will help them develop a level of understanding for just how fucked up he becomes.

  181. Shan
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:44 pm | Permalink

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh,

    It was the “get it through your heads” that made me touchy, I think. Maybe not the best choice of words, but I appreciate the sentiment.

  182. Hi-Fi
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

    Finally Jon’s story is getting some meat. Loved his interactions with Ygritte (but then again, I’ve also loved them in last week’s episode).

    Finally Talisa is presented as a real, endearing character. Loved seeing Robb with his post-coitus vulnerability. That was the best Robb/Talisa scene by far. And I’ve always been in favor of Talisa, I was just waiting for her to gain a bit more personality.

    And Dany’s scene was perfection.

    Fantastic episode. You guys sure love to complain.

    By the way, is there any chance HUGE HUGE BOOK SPOILERSthe Blackfish will help Talisa escape the Red Wedding? Or are they both goners?

  183. MyBFFTheHound
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib9yhHFmVQ

    Ep.8 preview. Looks like leeches?

  184. My name is Jaime
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    Excellent episode. Is it just me or did our dragons look even bigger compared to earlier in the season?

    The last scene was great…Jaime is showing that he’s the complex and troubled character we love from the books.

    Oh, and pregnancy?!

  185. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    I’m still surprised that so few people enjoyed the episode. I’m not the type to praise everything the show does, either. I ripped it plenty last season. But I have loved season 3 so far.

    Season 3 episode rankings:

    1. ‘Kissed By Fire’ (9.5/10)
    2. ‘And Now His Watch Is Ended’ (9.3/10
    3. ‘The Bear And The Maiden Fair’ (9.0/10)
    4. ‘Walk Of Punishment’ (8.7/10)
    5. ‘Valar Doeherys’ (8.5/10)
    6. ‘Dark Wings, Dark Words’ (8.3/10)
    7. ‘The Climb’ (8.0/10)

  186. Matt
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    Mariamb18,

    It doesn’t mean anything for Jeyne Westerling. However, it means Ramsay will be marrying Talissa with Roose Bolton serving as Regent. I’d bet money on it.

    Talissa is filling in for both Jeynes.

  187. Zack
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Yes yes yes. I would have liked to see Locke meet his end from the bear, but that was the only moment in the episode where I wasn’t 100% gratified.

    Oh, and Ygritte needs to not use Jon’s surname at least one goddamn time. Please?

    But
    -that Dany scene
    -the Robb/Talisa one (I never have been a Talisa naysayer)
    -Jaime/Brienne/Bart epicness
    -the amazing Joff/Tywin scene (“We could arrange for you to be carried” bwah!)
    -the best yet Theon torture scene, and it took me completely off-guard with the girls
    -Gendry/Mel. Watching him find out his dad’s identity, I loved that bit. I think it would be a shame to lose that actor and hope they have something good in store for Gendry.
    -Shae’s protests were completely fair. I’m loving these developments and the writing is really strong. I have no idea what the specific endgame there is going to be…and I’m glad)
    -Sophie Turner has been consistently solid, but this year in particular she’s been perfect. As I remember this is about the point in the books when I started liking Sansa. She’s wising up and soon she’ll be an actor and not a reactor and it will be great.

    Another top 10 episode IMO.

  188. The Purist
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:47 pm | Permalink

    PatD: I think it’s hilarious that people are bitching about changes that GRRM has not only fully endorsed but to which he’s contributed.

    In an interview, GRRM said that D&D can put aliens in the show and he’s powerless to stop them. Also, I doubt GRRM is completely happy with some of the changes. Why else would he ask D&D to change the names of some of the characters of the show?

  189. MRR
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    PrinceTheon,

    Thanks, I’m glad someone else gets it.

  190. Shan
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    PatD:

    But all that aside, there’s very little actual debating going on in most of these bitch-fests. Debate insinuates the consideration of opposing points and argumentative reasoning. How can people possibly know how effective the changes will be until the thing ends??? Judging the differences and damning them without knowledge of the endgame is just folly… and certainly not debate.

    But, hey, if that’s your idea of enjoying the show, have at it. But just because other book-readers are finding the series stunning doesn’t mean they are sheep. It just means they can differentiate between the two mediums.

    1. The fun part of debating is not knowing how things are going to turn out. A lot of people enjoy guessing without knowing whether or not they’re right. If people guess that a change will be bad, and it turns out to be good in the end, that’s part of the fun.

    2. I like most of the changes they’ve made. I never called anybody a sheep — if I did, I’d have to call myself a sheep. I just think it’s very annoying when people pretend that arguing and enthusing and, yes, complaining about the tiny details of the show isn’t fun. If it isn’t fun, why the heck are we here?

  191. Michel
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    Two scenes that would be awesome and I can’t understand why they didn’t happened:

    1) Sam, the Slayer after/in the moment that Osha is telling about how her companion became a wight.

    2) Jaime pushing Locke into the bear pit and then Locke is killed by the bear. I think in the TV cameo Locke will live and he is gonna be killed by Brienne in the place of Biter

  192. BalerionTheBlacDread
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,
    I didn’t think about the KL ties missing in the book. Good point.

    My analysis of the Tywin / Joffrey scene would be:

    Tywin sends a message to his grandson about who has the real authority.
    Joffrey reveals that he isn’t completely naive concerning threats to the realm.

    Fair to say that whenever we’ve had a Charles Dance scene in season three prior to this episode, it has commanded my respect both from a storytelling and acting point of view. This scene didn’t move the plot to me like Tywin’s meetings with the queen of thorns, Tyrion/Cersei, and the rest of the small council.

    Suffice to say that Tywin’s scenes are usually much more fruitful, which was a main weakness this episode in my POV.

  193. Darquemode
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    In a some ways this episode felt more like the books to me in tone than many other episodes…. and yet I think along with last week his episode is the worst of the season.

    It was not that the episode was nt necessarily bad IMO… it just lacked gravitas. Everything felt a little flat to me. Arya’s escape felt rushed, but then felt slow at the same time oddly.

    I did enjoy the bear pit more than most I think. I have seen a number of animal fight scenes and thy usually feel so staged. I thought this as edited fairly well honestly!

    Hated the Theon scene. That scene et so different from everything else tonight. The dialog from the girls was just pedestrian…. worst Theon scene this season which is saying something!

    If last week as a “C grade this was a “C-” for me.

    This week’s episode extras can be found here:
    http://www.spoilertv.com/2013/05/game-of-thrones-episode-307-bear-and_13.html

  194. Syrio
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    I love this episode, I give it a 9. The bear pit scene was rushed no doubt and not as impactful as it was in the books.

    But the characterization and motivation that has been cloudy with a bunch of characters this season was cleared up. We finally know where Jojen is taking Bran. We finally know Brienne and Jaime vows when Cat freed him. We finally know how Jon Snow feels about Ygritte. We finally got the real Tormund. We find out that despite his protests, there is a part of Tyrion that wants Sansa.

  195. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:51 pm | Permalink

    PatD: I think it’s hilarious that people are bitching about changes that GRRM has not only fully endorsed but to which he’s contributed.

    But all that aside, there’s very little actual debating going on in most of these bitch-fests. Debate insinuates the consideration of opposing points and argumentative reasoning. How can people possibly know how effective the changes will be until the thing ends??? Judging the differences and damning them without knowledge of the endgame is just folly… and certainly not debate.

    But, hey, if that’s your idea of enjoying the show, have at it. But just because other book-readers are finding the series stunning doesn’t mean they are sheep. It just means they can differentiate between the two mediums.

    I could seriously get into all these discussions about the differences between the books and the episodes if it all wasn’t so damn old and boring and the same old same old.

    It’s even more hilarious that people are complaining about future episodes and assuming things have been cut too early.
    Last year everyone was complaining about no Reeds or Ramsay and this year we got them.
    This year it’s the assumption that Sam The Slayer isn’t happening. He has a dragonglass dagger! Do people really think he brought that up last week for no reason?

  196. A Man Grown
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:53 pm | Permalink

    Loved the episode, agree with TyrionPimpSlap’s comments, and just wanted to add: strange as it might sound, I personally felt this episode handled its nudity the best of any so far. It felt more organic to the scenes this time around. On a related note I definitely thought this was the best “Theon torture scene of the week” to date.

  197. PatD
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:53 pm | Permalink

    Also, I doubt GRRM is completely happy with some of the changes. Why else would he ask D&D to change the names of some of the characters of the show?

    Because they are *changes.*

    You doubt he’s completely happy; to me he seems absolutely astounded about how lucky he’s been with the adaptation.

  198. Ser Osis of Liver
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

    My guess is we’ll find out Boy’s identity after Roose Bolton reveals his treachery at the RW. If what’s been floating around the internet is true about one scene in the Red Wedding—WARNING–POSSIBLE EPISODE 9 SPOILER…

    – that Talisa is the first to die at the massacre will positively confirm Jeyne Westerling’s irrelevance in the books. With the reveal of Talisa’s pregancy, I’m surprised we didn’t see the issue of Rob’s will and succession plans discussed. I suspect that will be next week. If it isn’t (or isn’t discussed before they arrive at the Twins), then we’re looking at certain future book storylines being rendered either impossible or difficult to achieve.

  199. Darquemode
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

    LordStarkington,

    I agree about the Jon and Ygritte scenes… also Jon and Tormund!!

    This was possibly te first time of the entire series that Jon felt like Jon of the books to me, Ygritte felt like book Ygritte, and the Wildlings felt like the Wildings of the book to me!

    D&D have really struggled with Jon and the Wildlings IMO, but this episode was brilliant for tat side of the world!

  200. Lavignac
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

    Lots of nice character moments and quotable quotes, but we really are getting into a pacing problem this season.

    What events significantly advanced storylines tonight? Arya got caught by the Hound, and Jaime saved Brienne. The rest is nice sitcom, but sitcom nonetheless.

    My personal love for the series is unassailable, but I am afraid that the second half of the season won’t keep up with the first half’s viewership increase.

  201. Helen
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:55 pm | Permalink
  202. MRR
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

    Jaime would have probably been killed if he’d try to throw Locke into the bear pit. He can only push his “Daddy wants me back alive so you must do whatever I say” scheme so far.

    Besides, pushing a man over those rails wouldn’t be so easy when you only have one hand to push with.

  203. kelly
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

    So does anybody else think we will actually never get Reek since there was no Reek at Winterfell or Boy masquerading as Reek. I am sure we will get Theon broken down to the same level as in the books but I just don’t the think they will go for the Theon as Reek characterization because I think it would need Theon’s inner monologue to be really effective.

  204. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

    An underrated scene from this episode was the Mel/Gendry scene. For non-readers this humanized Melisandre in a way we haven’t seen in the show and didn’t see in the books until ADWD. I have really enjoyed her scenes these past two episodes.

  205. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 10:58 pm | Permalink

    Darquemode,

    We are going to talk you into a C+. Just you wait and see.

  206. Maester Blaster
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:00 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger:
    This episode was not filler.
    We learned that Bran is going to the 3 Eyed Raven instead of Castle Black
    We saw that Jon still thinks of himself as a crow and the wildlings are “you” not “us”
    We got tension in the relationship between Tyrion and Shae.We maybe are introduced to a murder weapon in that scene.
    We got the info that Talisa is pregnant.That opens a whole can of worms.
    For the first time Jaime relied on his brain instead of his sword fighting prowess to solve a problem.
    Then the show ended with a cool action scene.

    You forgot to mention the Hound grabs Arya. That’s a pretty significant plot development.

  207. Gatorfisch
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

    Richard:
    Theon Greyjoy visited the Castle Anthrax this week (Monty Python and the Holy Grail)

    But, I don’t think he’ll be doing the spanking!

  208. Mariamb18
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

    Hi-Fi

    By the way, is there any chance HUGE HUGE BOOK SPOILERSthe Blackfish will help Talisa escape the Red Wedding? Or are they both goners?

    Thank goodness someone mentioned this. The two scenes of the RW that were included in trailers did not show The Blackfish. I’m thinking that he returns to Riverrun and doesn’t continue onto the wedding. He better not be a goner. As for Talisa’s, she may die at the RW. I have no idea where they are going with this character.

    Matt:
    Mariamb18,

    It doesn’t mean anything for Jeyne Westerling.However, it means Ramsay will be marrying Talissa with Roose Bolton serving as Regent.I’d bet money on it.

    Talissa is filling in for both Jeynes.

    Agree that is a possibility.

  209. coronaking
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

    Darquemode:
    This week’s episode extras can be found here:
    http://www.spoilertv.com/2013/05/game-of-thrones-episode-307-bear-and_13.html

    The background in the Jack Gleeson clip!
    Looks a bit like wedding decoration, doesn’t it?

  210. BalerionTheBlacDread
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:03 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Agreed. I especially liked Gendry’s slow realization that he LIKES being told that he could be more than just a pawn in the plans of the realm.

    Even better when we know Mel is going to burn him alive to use that King’s blood

  211. Ser Sleez
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    Any one notice how they didn’t kill the bear? It must have pissed PETA off enough skinning a dead deer in the first season so we can’t actually have a scene where an animal dies. Guy getting castrated though? Yeah that’s ok.

  212. Stone Cold Bastard
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    PrinceTheon,

    Yeah, we all get that.

    However, not everyone is a sadist fanboy.

    In ADWD, Theon reflected on the torture he had to endure, it was in the past. Instead of camera cutaways, or just showing severed fingers and toes on the ground etc, they’re shoving it in our faces. A few scenes, fine. It’s important that the audience comprehends Theon’s transition into Reek. But this is way over the top and too gratuitous – even the old HBO violent prison drama Oz wasn’t this sadistic. As pointed out, the castration didn’t even occur in ADWD – it’s just Benioff and Weiss going for the jugular (and they’re full of shit – so much for “longer” episodes this season). And Iwan Rheon is overrated, ditto this season – the hype was just clearly that.

  213. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    If they killed off Blackfish I would join the purists in bitching! He’s too relevant in the plot for that to make sense so it probably isn’t happening.

  214. Greg
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:05 pm | Permalink

    I think who “Boy” is will be revealed in Episode 9, when Roose meets up with Robb and Cat at the Twins. Basically, it’ll be the same as it was in the book, Robb will ask, “Did Ramsay send any word of Theon Greyjoy?” and Roose will be like “Yeah, he’s been making his life a living hell. lol My son’s a psycho, what can I say” and then he’ll present Robb with a piece of Theon (hopefully not his newly-emancipated cock, blegh)

    I don’t know, Iwan’s acting has been amazing and he was definitely the perfect choice, but I think the show could have handled this storyline a bit better.

  215. Friend Of fire
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

    The Purist,

    I am neither illiterate or lazy and thx to this show I have read all the books. The “terrible duo” as you call them really deserve at least a modicum of respect I am really beginning to see this fan base which I was so happy to become a part of as a bit depressing at times with how they attack the show with some pretty intense dislike and disrespect, the show is not perfect nor are the books but they are both extremely good in their respective mediums.

  216. Frederick Palowaski
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:07 pm | Permalink

    Nerds! Nerds! NERDS!

  217. Stone Cold Bastard
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    Ser Sleez,

    Actually, it wouldn’t “piss PETA off” because the deer was already dead. The bear used in that scene is a highly trained and tame grizzly, used for a variety of film and television productions, so obviously they’re not going to kill an actual living animal for mere television entertainment.

  218. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    Frederick Palowaski,

    RAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  219. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:11 pm | Permalink

    The Purist: In an interview, GRRM said that D&D can put aliens in the show and he’s powerless to stop them. Also, I doubt GRRM is completely happy with some of the changes. Why else would he ask D&D to change the names of some of the characters of the show?

    Are you referring to Talisa? He suggested they change it because Jeyne is not a Volantene name. I can’t think of any other examples.

  220. coronaking
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    It’s always better
    Inside the books
    I heard, I heard,
    Nerd, nerd, nerd… ♪

    ^^

  221. Darquemode
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Ha! XD
    Maybe, but I would not bet on it…. sadly.

    Some episodes do grown on me the more I watch, but I have watched this one twice and already found myself wanting to forward through a few scenes like Robb and Talisa, Theon, Gendry and Mel etc..

    I don’t think this was a filler episode at all like someone mentioned. I think it moved every arc along nicely, but it felt flat to me. To me it felt like a table-setter episode.
    *Shrug*

    Basically the bear pit is the finale of the Jaime and Brienne arc this season and it just did not feel finale-esque to me. I enjoyed it more than most, but after the absolutely STELLAR Jaime and Brienne scenes this year I felt bit let down.

    Also, unlike some, I LOVED the Tywin and Joffrey scene. Each sentence from Tywin was pure mocking of Joffrey. Ending with “When it is necessary” that was just dripping with sarcasm. Great stuff IMO.

    The only real change from the books I minded (although I do understand why they omitted it) was the fact they left out Jaime’s dragon dream. The other changes were fine to me personally, I just did not enjoy the scenes as they were.

    Oh well, great stuff to come in the next 4 weeks! AS well as 3 heavy-hitting episodes (I hope)…. Casting is coming….

  222. Wolfman27
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

    The Purist:
    Don’t blame us because you people are either illiterate or too lazy to read the books. Scenes that have been added in the show will NEVER be better than the stuff that happened in the books, that’s a fact, son. Because I’m sure many won’t put the whore spanking scene and others like it as their most favorite scene in the show.

    Book reader here. Just wanted to know, what makes scenes like A detailed description of Dany shitting or her fooling around with one of her handmaidens so much better or necessary than random whore scenes in the show?

    And there are plenty of other scenes like that in GRRM’s novels, not just those two examples.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love the books and I love the show. I don’t understand why some people can’t get it in their minds that they can enjoy both separately. They’re both telling the same story with just slightly different approaches. Who cares if some new scenes are added or some scenes are changed a little? If anything, that makes it more exciting for me since I already know what’s going to happen.

  223. MRR
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

    Ser Sleez:
    Any one notice how they didn’t kill the bear? It must have pissed PETA off enough skinning a dead deer in the first season so we can’t actually have a scene where an animal dies. Guy getting castrated though? Yeah that’s ok.

    Did you ever think that it might have had something to do with the difficulties of filming a live bear? Having an animal actor convincingly pretend to be shot and die probably isn’t especially easy. I thought the crossbow show to deter it was fine.

    Also, in the books, it’s a group of Bolton men who come back to deal with Vargo Hoat and his mercenaries. Here, it’s Bolton vs Bolton, so it makes a lot more sense that they wouldn’t just flagrantly kill off the bear.

  224. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

    House Snow: I think people were expecting him to be more stern with Joffrey.The only really insulting thing he said to him was carrying him up the tower.

    Did you watch the preview for next week? I think the moment “people” desire is coming.

  225. PrinceTheon
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:14 pm | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard,

    I’m a sadist fanboy? Sure, ok.

    That caption doesn’t prove that Theon wasn’t castrated. People can still have sexual feelings if they’re cut. And how is it too much? All we’ve SEEN is his finger. If the camera stayed there while Theon was getting cut, yes, maybe that was too much. But as soon as the guards got to him, it cut away. And again, it’s only been 3 scenes. That isn’t too much.

    And I can definitely tell you’re a purist who gets mad at every little change. I’ll remind you that D&D didn’t write this episode, George RR Martin did. And don’t give me the “D&D made him write that”. George didn’t have to write that if he didn’t want to.

  226. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

    I remember last season people wanted the show to be able to let the characters breathe. Now some people just want to get from one plot to the next without giving a damn about the characters. Jon, one of the most important characters, finally was presented well in this episode. And people just want to gloss over it because a key plot point from the books didn’t happen, what that is, I’m not sure. Did they want his escape this episode?

  227. Suzaku
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard:
    PrinceTheon,

    Yeah, we all get that.

    However, not everyone is a sadist fanboy.

    In ADWD, Theon reflected on the torture he had to endure, it was in the past. Instead of camera cutaways, or just showing severed fingers and toes on the ground etc, they’re shoving it in our faces. A few scenes, fine. It’s important that the audience comprehends Theon’s transition into Reek. But this is way over the top and too gratuitous – even the old HBO violent prison drama Oz wasn’t this sadistic. As pointed out, the castration didn’t even occur in ADWD – it’s just Benioff and Weiss going for the jugular (and they’re full of shit – so much for “longer” episodes this season). And Iwan Rheon is overrated, ditto this season – the hype was just clearly that.

    Pretty sure that Theon’s castration (or penectomy) was confirmed in ADWD in the scene where Ramsay forces him to perform oral sex on Jeyne Poole, where Theon says Ramsay took some fingers, toes, and “that other thing” from him. And Ramsay also frequently says he’s not a man anymore.

  228. Valdred Dethstorm
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

    MRR: Did you ever think that it might have had something to do with the difficulties of filming a live bear? Having an animal actor convincingly pretend to be shot and die probably isn’t especially easy. I thought the crossbow show to deter it was fine.

    Also, in the books, it’s a group of Bolton men who come back to deal with Vargo Hoat and his mercenaries. Here, it’s Bolton vs Bolton, so it makes a lot more sense that they wouldn’t just flagrantly kill off the bear.

    You know, they could just replace the real bear with a fake bear. A prop, or a digital one.

  229. FouLou
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

    Can’t believe they botched the bearpit. I was looking foward to that all year, and they took away so much of the tension.

    It would would have been awesome if Locke was thrown in the pit if they weren’t going to give us the epic moment form the books.

  230. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:18 pm | Permalink

    For those that are saying the Theon stuff didn’t happen in the books: See page 499 in the American hardcover version of ADWD (Theon 4)

    Ramsay rose … “Reek get over here. Get her ready for me”
    For a moment he did not understand. “I…do you mean…m’lord, I have no…”

    So there.

  231. akperidot4
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

    Nancy,

    I don’t see how you like Jon/Ygritte in the book more. I like them so much more in the show. I didn’t feel romance between them in the book, but it is clearly portrayed in the show. Maybe I’m just a hopeless romantic, but I just adore them.

  232. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

    What was so different about the bear pit? So Jaime didn’t fling dirt in the bear’s eyes and tackle Brienne, resulting in Steelshanks shooting the bear dead. What was so much better about that?

  233. Valdred Dethstorm
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:22 pm | Permalink

    FouLou:
    Can’t believe they botched the bearpit. I was looking foward to that all year, and they took away so much of the tension.

    It would would have been awesome if Locke was thrown in the pit if they weren’t going to give us the epic moment form the books.

    Agreed. I mean, after what they did with Ep. 4 I thought they could pull off an awesome Bear Pit scene. Alas, they didn’t.

  234. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:22 pm | Permalink

    akperidot4,

    I agree. I’ve felt more romance in the past 2 episodes than I ever did in the books. The emotional impact will be far greater when she dies in the show.

  235. sig79
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:22 pm | Permalink

    PrinceTheon,

    Yes! Exactly! Well said.

  236. Darquemode
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

    coronaking,

    It could be, but I seriously doubt THAT moment happens this year, much less next week!

    Besides, the interviews are done at random times and not necessary right after they filmed a scene, or to be shown before the next episode etc… Case in point, Jon has had the talon marks from Orell’s eagle for almost every one of his interviews this year.

  237. PrinceTheon
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

    James Hibberd gives a good reason not to have the bear killed: It was a great actor. It needs to go back to King’s Landing and have conversations with Cersei and Lady Olenna.

    Also, for not killing Locke: something has to provide meaning and entertainment in Brienne’s AFFC storyline. I think she’ll meet back up with Locke in Season 4/5

  238. sig79
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:25 pm | Permalink

    Holy book spoiler! I don’t remember it ever being confirmed in any of the books that Jeyne was carrying Rob’s baby. I guess we know now, lol! This should be a huge deal to book readers considering coming events.

  239. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:27 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    I remember last season people wanted the show to be able to let the characters breathe. Now some peoplejust want to get from one plot to the next without giving a damn about the characters. Jon, one of the most important characters, finally was presented well in this episode. And people just want to gloss over it because a key plot point from the books didn’t happen, what that is, I’m not sure. Did they want his escape this episode?

    People seem edgy because they’re viewing it all on a week by week basis. I bet when the home release is available it’ll all flow beautifully. The showrunners have already said that they’re imagining the series as a whole, rather than each season/episode being a separate story.

  240. Ioco73
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:29 pm | Permalink

    Loved tonight’s episode, another notch in a wonderful creative process has come to pass. But my heart is getting ready to hurt and bleed!!!

    Also, wow, I mean I don’t mind constructive criticism and positive feedback but there sure are a lot of dumb motherfuckers complaining because they have nothing else to do, nothing of use to add to the conversation but constantly bitch and moan…

  241. MRR
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:30 pm | Permalink

    Valdred Dethstorm: You know, they could just replace the real bear with a fake bear. A prop, or a digital one.

    And it wouldn’t have looked as good and probably would have cost a lot more money. The bear not dying does not negatively impact the scene in any way, so why would people complain about it?

  242. vampiredoctor
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:30 pm | Permalink

    I’m glad the bear lived.

  243. Darquemode
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:31 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I don’t think it was the fact that the bear pit scene was different from the books that made it less effective and I don’t think the bear needed to die personally. However the scene needed something at the end … Something was lacking to me.

    I also felt that the last second one-handed escape was akin to last week’s wall climb and Tormund catching and supporting 3 plummeting adults with crampons made from antlers and a 5-inch ice axe. It was too Hollywood for me personally.

    So it was not the fact it was changed, it was how it was changed to me.
    I actually liked the actual fight and editing, but I felt flat at the end of the scene. The lack of finality the bear death supplied needed to be filled somehow and Jaime pulling “My daddy will..” again did not supply the needed tone for me. Maybe Locke being tossed in would have? Not sure, but something was lacking for me.

  244. DH87
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:34 pm | Permalink

    With all the talk of the bear, a gif of the slaves jumping backward as Drogon lurches forward to guard the cask of gold would be great. The dragons are becoming some of my favorite actors in the whole show.

  245. idkk
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:35 pm | Permalink

    If you go over to Westeros, you’ll see that as many people expected they’re bashing D&D for the episode and not GRRM. Ran is saying that this is the result of D&D forcing these storylines on George and giving him shitty material to work with. It’s kind of laughable.

  246. DH87
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

    Darquemode: I don’t think it was the fact that the bear pit scene was different from the books that made it less effective and I don’t think the bear needed to die personally. However the scene needed something at the end … Something was lacking to me.

    For what it’s worth, bears are often taught to “wrestle” with their trainers/handlers to get the action you guys may have been expecting. I thought they would dress the bear wrangler in a short blonde wig as Brianne for one close up of a “lethal” strike. They could not risk either an actor or stunt man/woman to get close enough—the underwriters would have had a seizure, assuming anyone would be willing to give it a try.

  247. Bob
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

    Weakezt episode of this season for me. The bear pit really fell flat. Glad they didn’t kill Locke, I’m hoping the do something with that character, maybe even turn him into a protagonist of sorts.

  248. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:42 pm | Permalink

    Once again, Alan Sepinwall with a great review of the episode as a TV show.

  249. wargsareawesome
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:48 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    “As a TV show” Bingo. The problems is, people are expecting it to be an exact page-to-screen version of the books, rather than enjoying it, on its own merits, for the wonderful TV it is.

  250. Ashara D
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

    LOVED IT! Book reader and am loving the changes, especially pulled together by George in this episode.
    Thoroughly enjoyed the Theon scene–watching my non-reader family saying “WTF” and me sitting with my hand over my mouth, just waiting for the appearance of Boy with his toy!
    Loved Jon, Ygritte and Tormund.
    BTW re: Baby Stark. Pregnancy makes a good excuse to go back to Riverrun–out of harms way, so to speak–and would need a reliable (family member) escort on the terrible roads these days…this revelation proves nothing. George knows that this will send the purists into a frenzy, and that they have plenty of time to let it stew, just like the books. Just George being George.
    George is lucky that D&D love (and use) his material so much, AND D&D got lucky that George also knows how to write for tv. A powerful partnership, and they all know it. Have faith, people!

  251. Frederick Palowaski
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:52 pm | Permalink

    I think the only problem with the bear pit is that, in the book, this is the culmination of Jaime’s internal transformation – a transformation we don’t really witness in the show. There’s no real indication as to why Brienne comes to mean so much to him. Seems like a sort of stockholm syndrome in the show. Instead of Jaime learning the meaning of courage and honor, he explains why he was never really that bad in the first place, and Brienne decides then and there that she likes him. Jaime’s return to Harrenhal in the show is kind of a random act of heroism, without a whole lot building up to it.

    The scene definitely lacked the emotion of the book, but that’s kind of unavoidable. The show – at this point, at least – can’t afford to take the same intimate approach to storytelling as the book. So, emotional scenes will be a bit lacking in comparison.

    I can already tell there will be a world of complaining going on two weeks from now…

  252. DH87
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:00 am | Permalink

    DH87: I thought they would dress the bear wrangler in a short blonde wig as Brianne for one close up of a “lethal” strike.

    On second viewing, it’s pretty obvious that the wrangler is in all those scenes with the bear, cutting to close ups of G. Christie’s face. Having once danced with a young brown bear, I can tell you that is as close as you’d ever want to be to any member of the bear family.

  253. Valdred Dethstorm
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:07 am | Permalink

    MRR: And it wouldn’t have looked as good and probably would have cost a lot more money. The bear not dying does not negatively impact the scene in any way, so why would people complain about it?

    No, I’m not saying I wanted the bear to die or that the scene sucked because no bears were killed.
    Just answering to people saying “But they wouldn’t kill a real animal!!” Or “How do you convince the bear to play dead?”.

  254. BirdSpy
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:09 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    So just because you are happy with the episode, no one else’s opinion matters? You do realize you are bashing people for having a voice, correct? Please quit whining about how others don’t agree with you.

    Worst episode so far.

  255. Scott Glennon
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:10 am | Permalink

    Yep. they just called Julia Louis-Dreyfus “The Khaleesi from DC” Nice crossover, HBO! Also, really enjoying AngryGOTfan Hulking out on twitter. LOL :-)

    For Winterfell!

  256. Monica
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:14 am | Permalink

    Dragons – best yet!

    Curious about small changes in the dialogue…(Jaime sends his regards vs the Lannisters send their regards. Missed the bit about Jaime saving maids. Why would GRRM shortchange some of his best lines?)

    Those women with Theon were harpies. They were as scary than Boy. I thought they might do the cutting, themselves!

    Love how Jon’s story is finally moving.

    What’s with the pregnancy? Doesn’t Rob leave Winterfell to Jon, in his will?

    Talissa looks so suspicious, too many letters in a foreign language!

    GRRM added a great bit for Osha, and she nailed it!

    OK, I’m a book nerd. I’m still hoping that most of best lines in the book, will make their way onto TV!

  257. shadallion
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:02 am | Permalink

    Despise every scene with Shae

  258. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:30 am | Permalink

    BirdSpy,

    Pretty much. I liked the episode. You didn’t. That doesn’t mean my opinion matters more or means more, it just matters more to me. I get frustrated when the most common complaint is ‘It wasn’t in the books’. I watch for the characters, not just to see them jump from one big event to the next.

  259. The Purist
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:31 am | Permalink

    Friend Of fire,
    I didn’t say all are lazy or illiterate, just some of them. If you find this depressing, man you must not be made of sterner stuff, seeing as this is the Internet and all. Approximately two years ago, I was nicer than what you see now, but I was still relentless bashed because I wasn’t a fanboy of the show. So I thought, “screw it” if I’m branded as this mouth foaming book purist even though I wasn’t back then, I will gladly play that part for you fine folks. You could say, it’s my armor.

    Wolfman27,
    It isn’t just the whore scenes, it’s also stupid changes, which I’m mostly complaining about that they weren’t well done than simply just hating it because it deviate from the books. Changes like Jaime killing his cousin, not letting Catelyn know that both Bran & Rickon “died” before she let Jaime, whole Qarth business in S2 and so forth. It’s stupid changes like that along with unnecessary scenes like Pod and the whores that what irks me. The show cannot afford to put more scenes like that because it gives less scene time for more important characters like developing Jon & Ygritte’s relationship, which they just fast forward to the cave scene. Get it now?

    Steven Swanson: Are you referring to Talisa? He suggested they change it because Jeyne is not a Volantene name. I can’t think of any other examples.

    Yes, that… woman. If I recall GRRM asked to change it mostly because she’s nothing like in the books, where she’s a commoner in the show not royalty. George has made it known that he detest cliches like the king/prince falling in love and marrying a commoner. Guess what the show did? Also, Locke was originally suppose to be Vargo Hoat, but since he’s so different from the show, George asked to change his name as well. Not saying he hates the show, but can’t blame if he’s not 100% happy with what tweedle dee & tweedle dum have done to the show.

  260. WildSeed
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:41 am | Permalink

    Mike Chair: “Out there somewhere.” Isn’t that a song title? No. That was “Somewhere Out There.” Never mind.

    Possible maybe about the song.

    Just remember…………………….
    No matter where you go, there you are *>*

  261. WildSeed
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:44 am | Permalink

    DH87: On second viewing, it’s pretty obvious that the wrangler is in all those scenes with the bear, cutting to close ups of G. Christie’s face. Having once danced with a young brown bear, I can tell you that is as close as you’d ever want to be to any member of the bear family.

    Yes, and I’d wager that Bart the Bear gets his talons filed somewhat.

    The closest I’d been to a bear, is having my cabin ransacked at Yosemite National
    Park. I’ll leave the dancing to you and Brienne (:

  262. NickOLess
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:48 am | Permalink

    Compared to the writing and plotting for the other episodes this season, this episode was startlingly weak. It had a superabundance of filler in the form of boring, go-nowhere, soap-opera relationships (e.g. Robb & whatserhame, Tyrion & Shae, Jon & Brigitte…Theon and whoever that dude is), and contained very little dramatic tension as a result. The pacing was slow, the dialogue forgettable, and the action non-existant.

    Imagine my relief when I discovered that the episode was actually written by GRR Martin himself, and that the producers had wisely allotted him only a single episode for the season — and a relatively unimportant one at that. Now that that’s over, we can get back to the good writing. Happily, the final three episodes this season were written by Benioff and Weiss, who seem to be deftly saving the material from the increasingly bumbling Martin, whose lack of editorial prowess has resulted in an increasingly bloated and rambling story, as evidenced by A Dance with Dragons.

  263. Shmurb
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:51 am | Permalink

    NickOLess,

    While I don’t really agree with your assessment of GRRM, I was surprised that his episode was the weakest episode of the season for me. It had it’s moments, I still enjoyed it, but it wasn’t up to snuff with some of the other ones. I’ve generally really enjoyed the D&D material this season, hope they keep it up!

  264. WildSeed
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:58 am | Permalink

    Darquemode:
    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I don’t think it was the fact that the bear pit scene was different from the books that made it less effective and I don’t think the bear needed to die personally. However the scene needed something at the end … Something was lacking to me.

    I also felt that the last second one-handed escape was akin to last week’s wall climb and Tormund catching and supporting 3 plummeting adults with crampons made from antlers and a 5-inch ice axe. It was too Hollywood for me personally.

    So it was not the fact it was changed, it was how it was changed to me.
    I actually liked the actual fight and editing, but I felt flat at the end of the scene. The lack of finality the bear death supplied needed to be filled somehow and Jaime pulling “My daddy will..” again did not supply the needed tone for me. Maybe Locke being tossed in would have? Not sure, but something was lacking for me.

    I see your point, although tossing Locke to the bear as Jaime’s revenge wouldn’t
    make it meaningful, just gory. I realise that Brienne was supplied with a pretend
    sword and scratched, as in the books. But didn’t she inflict some pain to the bear,
    with that wooden point ? Perhaps BartBear has a non poke clause in his contract.
    Either way, the editing or exclusion of suitable stunt play or even CGI was needed
    to season the scene. Mayhaps the premise of Brienne, damsel of Tarth in distress,
    was what was sought. The latter would make for boring TV for some viewers .
    Jaime really high tailed it out of the ring, even before reaching the wall.

    Do you think Dahlia or Val or whoever, is going to be cast for S4 ? or
    excluded from the story ? Gilly seems to have the dominant presence
    anyway *>*

  265. NickOLess
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:05 am | Permalink

    Shmurb,

    I’ll still buy and read the (eventually) upcoming ASOIAF books, but GRRM really needs a brutal and ruthless editor. He’s got great ideas and concepts, but he’s so in love with the minutiae of his world that he fails to keep his eye on the big picture, and the story arc suffers for it. A writer (or any creative, for that matter) has to be willing to murder his darlings, as the saying goes. But GRRM seems more inclined to set his darlings up with a nice bungalow by the beach.

  266. Shmurb
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:43 am | Permalink

    NickOLess,

    I agree, he could definitely use some editing. I guess there is a degree of subjectivity to how much of his focus on minutiae you enjoy (for example I like the elaborations on Dorne and Iron Islands, not so keen on Mereen and I do love his description, but I would say the narrative suffers at times for it. Big fleshed out world is cool, but once you’re a certain way through a narrative arc, there’s only so much more fleshing out you can do.

  267. Chickenduck
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:27 am | Permalink

    NickOLess:
    Shmurb,

    I’ll still buy and read the (eventually) upcoming ASOIAF books, but GRRM really needs a brutal and ruthless editor. He’s got great ideas and concepts, but he’s so in love with the minutiae of his world that he fails to keep his eye on the big picture, and the story arc suffers for it. A writer (or any creative, for that matter)has to be willing to murder his darlings, as the saying goes. But GRRM seems more inclined to set his darlings up with a nice bungalow by the beach.

    Someone told me once that they found that GRRM was a great storyteller, but not an amazing writer.

    That sums it up for me. Are some of his characters a bit sh*t? Yep (looking at you in particular, comic foreign cliché He-Man sidekick WWE mash-up Strong Belwas). Does he need serious editing? Yep. Do I think every detail is perfect? No. Does the map of Westeros look like it was obviously drawn on A4 paper and the rivers etc make no sense? Yes, yes and it’s bothered me since I read the first book years ago.

    Do I still love pretty much everything ASOIAF? Of course!!

    The world-building is what hooks me in, the actual prose is really nothing special. For the record, I felt the same way about JK Rowling – I was a massive Potter nerd, and I loved the story, but the writing itself wasn’t great.

    Seriously guys, it’s escapist fantasy, not high literature. Just sit back and have fun with it.

  268. Suzaku
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:12 am | Permalink

    The Purist: GRRM

    Yet he’s also stated that Osha’s depiction in the show has changed his personal view of the character and will likely affect how he writes her if she turns back up in the books.

    Cogman also confirmed that Martin wrote the Melisandre/Gendry stuff in this episode, which is frankly a brilliant adaptation change when compared with the books.

    There’s also more going on with the adaptation than just the writing, most importantly the casting, as each actor is also putting their own twist on their character, and further altering how those characters are written for them. The only reason we’re really getting all these Theon’s scenes, and the alter S2 storyline for him, was to ensure that Alfie Allen continued to have screentime for the next two seasons.

  269. Yellow Dog
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:07 am | Permalink

    Hi-Fi,

    I think Talisa’s pregnancy and the presence of both her and Blackfish at the Twins absolutely means that they will escape the RW together.

    That gives me hope for lots more Blackfish scenes, in addition to his epic confrontation with Jaime at Riverrun.

  270. jennyofoldstones
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:25 am | Permalink

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh,

    Hear, hear! This is absolutely right.

  271. jennyofoldstones
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:27 am | Permalink

    Mike Chair,

    Brilliant. The actress who plays Gilly was in ‘Skins’ with Joe Dempsie. It took another rewatch for me to recognize her.

  272. The Purist
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    Suzaku: Yet he’s also stated that Osha’s depiction in the show has changed his personal view of the character and will likely affect how he writes her if she turns back up in the books.

    Cogman also confirmed that Martin wrote the Melisandre/Gendry stuff in this episode, which is frankly a brilliant adaptation change when compared with the books.

    There’s also more going on with the adaptation than just the writing, most importantly the casting, as each actor is also putting their own twist on their character, and further altering how those characters are written for them. The only reason we’re really getting all these Theon’s scenes, and the alter S2 storyline for him, was to ensure that Alfie Allen continued to have screentime for the next two seasons.

    GRRM was more impressed with the actress who plays Osha and can’t blame him, she was good. It’s not because of the D&D writing.

    Yeah, GRRM wrote Melisandre/Gendry stuff, what’s your point? The terrible duo put him in that situation. If he had it his way, he would kept Edric Storm alive. Luckily, Melisandre/Gendry stuff isn’t the worst offender for this season.

    You can say all you want, but GRRM still doesn’t have the power that some people claim he has on the show. It’s clear that Tweedle Dee & Tweedle Dum put their stamp after season 1 and claim ownership to the show, so they can add whatever awful scenes they can put to try to prove to people that they aren’t as awful writers as they are before they got their mitts on adapting ASOIAF. But smarter people knows better. Without the GRRM’s novels, D&D are nothing, but terrible movie script writers.

  273. Adam
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    I feel like I’m the only one that views the season as a whole, rather than review and nitpick every episode. Watching all season 3 episodes together, I am again amazed at the continuity and fluidity of all the story lines, and the slower episodes contrast nicely with the more action oriented ones. All together, each season is a giant, superbly paced movie, and I feel it’s insulting to bash the quality of the show, as it’s head and shoulders above the rest. This is coming from a book reader, and most of the changes I like better than the books to boot!

  274. Ser Sleez
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard,

    PETA actually did make a thing out of the deer on season 1. And I’m not saying they should have literally killed the bear, I’m just guessing that they let the bear live because of that.

  275. JamesL
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    sig79,

    That means nothing, Talisa and Jeyne are two different characters and this whole Talisa/Robb story is different than the books.

  276. Butterbumps
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    The Purist,

    I don’t necessarily put D&D on a pedestal, but if you hate them that much, just don’t watch the show anymore. Why do you torture yourself by following something that you’ll find unsatisfying and maybe even repellant anyway?

  277. Nancy
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    akperidot4,

    I think my issue with showJon/Ygritte is that Kit’s performance of Jon leaves me cold. I wish it wasn’t that way, because Jon is one of my favorites and I enjoyed him and Ygritte in the books.

    Some more episode thoughts…I hate to spoiler it all but I feel they need to be:
    Robb’s will: Much like who has Eddard’s bones and where are they now subplot in book, I don’t think the will is going to be an issue in the show. Makes me a little sad because it is one of my favorite sequences in the books but since as of right now in the show-Robb believes Bran and Rickon to be missing and alive, has no knowledge of Sansa’s marriage and thinks Arya is still in KL-even without the potential heir, there would be no reason for him in the show to name Jon his heir. I am thinking the will doesn’t happen in the show.
    Blackfish at the RW: please show don’t kill him off. Either he is taking the place of the Greatjon or does sneak Talisa out.
    Talisa -who knows now? I can think of infinite possibilities for the character going forward. I am very curious about her fate on the show.

  278. NickOLess
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    Chickenduck: Someone told me once that they found that GRRM was a great storyteller, but not an amazing writer.

    QFT. As a longtime fan of roleplaying games, I can understand and sympathize with GRRM’s plight. Creating a fascinating world with lots of interesting characters and places is a totally different process than running a good adventure.

    And for the record, I love the series of books and place them alongside my all-time favorites, regardless of genre. But I think he slid a bit off message with A Feast for Crows, and that slide became a plummet with A Dance with Dragons, especially the aimless meandering of Tyrion, everything with Areo Speedwagon (oops, Hotah), Jon Connington, Quentyn Martell, etc.

  279. sean
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    So much bitching from people who shouldn’t be allowed to call themselves fans.

  280. Arristan The Old
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard: coronaking, Page 473: He wanted to hit her, to smash that mocking smile off her face. He wanted to kiss her, to fuck her right there on the table and make her cry his name. But he knew he dare not touch her, in anger or in lust. Reek, Reek, my name is Reek. I must not forget my name. He jerked to his feet and made his way wordlessly to the doors, limping on his maimed feet.

    Nobody ever said Theon got his nads removed; just the peen, and probably not until he begged for it. Your quote isn’t what proves Theon still has all of his privates; it’s what shows Theon’s emasculation to be even more horrifying than “ordinary” castration – he still has the desire, but no way to satisfy it. You’re ignoring a couple dozen other ADWD references to “not a man”, “that other thing”, “I have no…”, “noooo, please don’t look at me naked”, “Theon, Theon, it rhymes with trouble peein’”, etc.

    But I’ll admit, it’s only very subtly bashed repeatedly over the reader’s head in the book. I know a few other people who didn’t catch it until I showed them the list of related ADWD highlights in my kindle.

    As for Pregnant Talisa, well, who knows if George even wrote that scene – D&D add scenes to his scripts sometimes (ie. Hound vs. Bronn in Blackwater). and even if he did, she’s Talisa, not Jeyne. He could even just be messing with fans’ heads. It’s interesting, but far from conclusive about any book-based theories. Personally, I’m still on the fence about the Heir To The North theory where the books are concerned.

    All in all, to me this was definitely not the worst episode of this mostly awesome season to date.

  281. Shmurb
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    Adam,

    This is true, watching the episodes back to back makes them much more cohesive as a whole, they’re way stronger when they don’t stand alone.

  282. The Purist
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    Butterbumps:

    I don’t necessarily put D&D on a pedestal, but if you hate them that much, just don’t watch the show anymore. Why do you torture yourself by following something that you’ll find unsatisfying and maybe even repellant anyway?

    Let me think about it… hmm, nah. I’ll keep watching the show. Besides, I enjoyed the latest episodes as it’s not vomit inducing as the other episodes that the terrible duo wrote. I will still watch the show in hoping that GRRM write most of the episodes along with Brian Cogman, who seems more respectful to the source material than the other writers, while D&D demoted to polish George’s boots.


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