Episode 27 – The Bear and the Maiden Fair – Recap
By Winter Is Coming on in Recap.

Orell and Jon

“A bear! A bear! All black and brown and covered in hair.” Episode seven of season three of Game of Thrones has just concluded. Read my thoughts on tonight’s George R. R. Martin-penned episode, “The Bear and the Maiden Fair”, after the break.

Spoiler Note: This post is for those who have read A Storm of Swords. As such the post itself and the comments will contain spoilers. If you haven’t read ASoS yet, you can discuss this episode in our non-book reader recap. Thanks!

Episode summary coming later…

What I Liked

The Mother of Dragons – I think this scene was quite effective at showing just what it means to be a mother of dragons. Those dragons looked fierce! And the whole thing was gorgeously shot by Michelle MacLaren. Oh, and you have to love Dany’s negotiating tactics. After a season of Dany dithering in Qarth, it is nice to see her with some agency. I’d have to say hers has been one of the strongest stories of season 3.
Side-eye Hodor – Hands down, we got the best Hodor of the series tonight.
Gendry, a King’s Bastard – Again, this storyline continues to deliver for me. the top-down shot was an interesting camera angle. Getting to see the aftermath of the wildfire explosion was pretty neat. And we got a bit more Melisandre backstory, much earlier than we receive it in the series.
Tywin Counsels Joffrey – Finally, Tywin and Joffrey face off. And Tywin lays the smack down on the boy king. “We could arrange to have you carried up.” That line had me rolling! It should be fun to see how this rivalry develops.
The Chain – Something tells me we will be seeing that again…
“And if we die, we die. But first we live.” – I always liked this line in the book. Glad George was able to work it into the series!
The bear and the maiden fair – The Jaime Lannister redemption tour continues! That bear was pretty scary. Was I the only one that wished Jaime would have thrown Locke into the pit before leaving? I’ll have to settle for this great line, “Sorry about the sapphires”.

What I Didn’t Like

Osha’s Undead Encounter – This show likes to bust out a meaty monologue every now and again. Most of them are very good and tell us something about a character or give us important exposition. Osha’s story about her former lover becoming a wight and attacking her was well-written and acted, but I don’t think it was really necessary. Most viewers already understand the concept of the wights and that they can only be killed by fire. And we already know why Osha fled from the north. It was an okay scene, but I found myself wondering what was the point?
Stalling Story – After a series of terrific, densely-packed episodes I feel like the pace of this season has really slowed down. It feels like the writers are having to spin their wheels on some storylines while they wait for important events to unfold elsewhere. It’s a tough thing to juggle this many storylines, so I can’t fault the writers too much. But I hope the last three episodes are a return to the breakneck pace of the middle of this season.

This episode was on-par with last week’s offering, which was good, but not great. While there were a handful of great scenes, too many others felt like a rehash. While normally I’d be okay with a good but not great episode of Game of Thrones, I had high hopes for the combination of George R. R. Martin and Michelle MacLaren, and unfortunately they weren’t met. Hopefully next week is a return to the greatness of earlier this season.

But enough about what I thought, what did you think about tonight’s episode? Sound off in the comments and rate the episodes in our poll.


495 Comments

  1. a.milly
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

    hodor

  2. Andy Gavin
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

    Perhaps nothing other than a good wedding is anticipated as much as the annual George R. Martin penned episode. And fitting that the bear himself should pen The Bear and the Maiden Fair. It’s a good episode, but it feels more stylistically disjointed than last weeks and less packed with turnabouts than episodes 24 and 25. But some of the relationships and performances continue to stand out: Jon and Ygritte (or really Ygritte), Tyrion and Shae, and Jaime and Brienne. They really could not have cast either of these last two better. As always, my detailed thoughts on the episode can be found on my blog.

  3. cawk gawd
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

    i gotta say, D&D seem to be the worst episode writers, i enjoyed this episode

  4. KG
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

    You have to remember – just because WE know what’s going on north of the Wall doesn’t mean that Bran and the Wonder Twins know.

    Now they do. THAT was the purpose of the scene. (and it sets up them splitting up as in the book)

  5. Jen@House Stark
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

    Mel tells Gendry who his dad is! Woow! That was my fav moment. Loved Tywin on the steps of the Iron Throne. “Well then, your Grace, we’ll carry you”, or some such. Loved that. Loved Bronn and Tyrion’s chat, that cracked me up. The rest was meh, IMO. My beloved King in the North made me want to puke. Had a hard time watching that. Oh, and Arya, her God is Death, wow. Probably my least fav episode of the season, but not terrible.

  6. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:21 pm | Permalink

    Already posted this in open chat but pasted it for those who already moved in here.

    For those that are saying the Theon stuff didn’t happen in the books: See page 499 in the American hardcover version of ADWD (Theon 4)

    Ramsay rose … “Reek get over here. Get her ready for me”
    For a moment he did not understand. “I…do you mean…m’lord, I have no…”

    So there.

  7. Andrew
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:22 pm | Permalink

    I quite liked the episode, even though not a whole lot happened. I guess Charlotte Hope’s Myranda wasn’t quite the major character we all speculated she’ll be, but none the less it was a good scene. As others have said, it’s really driving home the mental breakdown Theon goes through unseen in the books.

    The Dany scene was really great too, in my opinion. As I probobly have stated before, I wasn’t a big fan of Danys extended stay in Slavers Bay in the books. I liked her going straight for the “Freeing the Slaves” reasoning rather than the “How can I rule Westeros if I can’t even rule a city? I’ve got to stay” reasoning I remember from the book. The Dragons looked exceptional, as well!

    The bear pit scene was really tense! Very well done.

  8. boyo71
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

    This episode seemed to be the episode where they had to spend a lot of time fixing story-lines. They had to spend a bunch of time making people care about Rob and a lot of time making John smile and go anti-emo.

  9. Winter's Lion
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

    I was thinking the exact same thing the entire time Jamie and Locke were talking by the edge of the bear pit. Throw him in!!!

  10. lord manteezy
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:24 pm | Permalink

    the whole “Talisa” being pregnant now is huge

  11. Wenchsaver
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:24 pm | Permalink

    Wow. Never disappoints. Is the Bastard gonna cut off Reek’s cock? That’s a lot worse than three fingers and two toes.

  12. Wenchsaver
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:26 pm | Permalink

    lord manteezy,

    This just means she has to die, too right?

  13. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:30 pm | Permalink

    Could the Talisa pregnancy be a trick being played on us by GRRM and or D&D? There are three possible implications from this news:
    1) Talisa and fetus will die at the RW upping the tragedy level
    2) Talisa is a Lannister spy and is lying to increase his devotion to her even more.
    3) The Jeyne is pregnant with a Stark heir theory is true

    Since any of these could be the case we don’t have any more info than we got from reading the books.
    Well played show!

  14. boyo71
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:30 pm | Permalink

    Did the Blackfish go to the Frey/Tully wedding in the books?

  15. Fourth Of His Name
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:31 pm | Permalink

    I thought this was a great episode.. I personally have yet to be disappointed this season.
    I loved the playing of Rains of Castamere at the end.
    My dad doesn’t think things are gonna go well for RobbLITTLE DOES HE KNOW.

  16. Valdred Dethstorm
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:31 pm | Permalink

    Wenchsaver:
    lord manteezy,

    This just means she has to die, too right?

    Hopefully.

  17. Ryan
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

    I’ve heard that some of the subplots got shuffled around between episodes, so this wasn’t entirely Martin’s work, and the rest went into other episodes. So it’s hard to judge how much of this was really “sanctioned” by him, to use a word that doesn’t quite fit but I can’t come up with a better one.

    The thing I would most like to think wasn’t him is the continual sidelining of Catelyn. Blackfish completely cuts off some important things she’s saying, but it’s Talisa he apologizes to?

  18. Michel
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

    boyo71,

    Nope

  19. Jen@House Stark
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:34 pm | Permalink

    Valdred Dethstorm: Hopefully.

    Pretty please! Who’s got Tyrion’s blade?

  20. Stone Cold Bastard
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:36 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    ADWD, page 473:

    “He wanted to hit her, to smash that mocking smile off her face. He wanted to kiss her, to fuck her right there on the table and make her cry his name. But he knew he dare not touch her, in anger or in lust. Reek, Reek, my name is Reek. I must not forget my name. He jerked to his feet and made his way wordlessly to the doors, limping on his maimed feet.”

    So there.

  21. Petearys
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:36 pm | Permalink

    Really am liking the deviation of the Gendry story after all. Really convinced he’s not going to matter in the books by going this route. Still kind of like it anyway.

    Locke didn’t get chucked into the bear pit by Jaime, but I’m sure everyone caught that “The Rains of Castamere” was playing as he rose off?

  22. sig79
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:37 pm | Permalink

    Holy book spoiler! I don’t remember it ever being confirmed in any of the books that Jeyne was carrying Rob’s baby. I guess we know now, lol!

  23. Kenneth
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:37 pm | Permalink

    LOVED
    *The whole Daenerys scene. Thought her leadership was shown well and I just love her being this fierce. The dragons looked the best they ever have this scene.
    *Jaime saving Brienne from the bear. I thought they portrayed Jaime’s feeling very well. It didn’t seem forced or out of the normal for him.

    LIKED
    *Melisandre and Gendry talking about his where he comes from and getting some backstory on Melisandre
    *Jon and Ygritte
    *Tywin and Joefrrey finally have a scene together and even mention Daenerys

    DIDN’T LIKE AS MUCH
    *Sansa and Margaery. It seemed to serve no purpose
    *Osha’s monologue. Though I did love Hodor!
    *Theon still getting tortured

    Overall a good episode. Slower just like the previous one but I’m sure its gonna pay off.

  24. Michel
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:38 pm | Permalink

    NCW, Clive Russel, Iwan Rheon and Natalie Dormer are Season 3 names!

    PS: For sure what is making Blackfish so badass these season is the fact that D&D probably gave most of the lines that were from Greatjon to him, since they fight with Clive Mantle (who is an excellent actor).

  25. Bill
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

    I liked this episode better than last weeks. Jon felt more like book Jon. I really liked the scenes of him and Ygritte. I was glad for the scenes with Qyburn as well. It felt like we needed some more info on this guy. I guess we know now why the elisode was going to be called chains. I’ve been thinking on that one since season one. I thought the bear pit was…meh. It was ok. Just not as intense as I hoped. I still wish Locke had a lisp. Oh well.

    The true show stealer in this episode, for me, was Talisa’s backside!! :)
    Good episode! It’s going way too fast though. Only three more.

  26. Darquemode
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:40 pm | Permalink

    Aeed on the review, but even the scenes I enjoyed felt either rushed or flat to me.

    I did like the dynamic between Jon and Ygritte, Jon and Tormund, and just the over all feel of the Wildlings this week. The best the series has done with handling Jon or beyond the Wall IMO!

    Also liked Tywin dressing on Joffrey!
    OF course he is not going to belittle him overtly like Tyrion, that is not how Tywin does things. Basically the entire scene was Tywin telling Joff, “You know nothing.”
    I enjoyed it!

    For those they may not get to my link in the other thread, this week’s episode extras can be found here:
    http://www.spoilertv.com/2013/05/game-of-thrones-episode-307-bear-and_13.html

  27. Mark
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

    I see what you’re saying about the storylines sputtering a bit perhaps, but as opposed to last week’s I really liked this one. It was much more tightly paced, and the Bear scene finale felt much more like real, gritty, classic GoT than the Michael-Bay-Esque wall-climb. It wasn’t pretty, it wasn’t spectacular, it was a genuine moment of attempted sacrifice. Jaime throwing himself into harm’s way, unable to do anything except force notsteelshanks to make a decision. I thought his encounter with Locke after was a bit of a letdown, but the actual scene itself was excellent.

    And Qyburn! I know he hasn’t had much screen time, but what an excellent job Anton Lesser is doing. I never really knew how to picture Qyburn in the books, he’s described as kindly seeming but he’s such a creep, and Lesser is somehow managing it perfectly even in limited action.

    Also, Talisa is preggers!!!! How is this not the biggest deal in this episode? An episode penned my GRRM, Robb’s wife announces she’s all knocked up. Of course, she’s not Jeyne, so maybe it’s just a crazy red herring to mess with us book readers, but I doubt it. They probably changed her just to avoid dealing with the Westerling triple cross later. It’s exactly the kind of thing the show is notorious for cutting.

    I also didn’t mind the Osha scene. They’re setting up a way to split them up later. My guess–Osha stays with them through the scene at Queenscrown and then they split after.

    This obviously wasn’t the best episode GoT has ever done, but it worked. In a lot of ways, it was a good blueprint for how to do an episode that ISN’T Blackwater. It moved around quite a bit and wasn’t jam packed with action, but still let the viewer in on things that are happening bit by bit and felt genuine every step of the way. There were no cringe-worthy moments, lots of great performances by the actors (even minor ones, like Qyburn, Tormund with his Har and Orell being a creep, Gendry’s combination of discomfort, confusion, and elation at the revelation of his parentage), great cinematography (the Tywin-Joff scene was brilliantly shot, as was the Dany scene), excellent screenwriting (some of the best dialog we’ve had yet between Jon and Ygritte, Jaime and Brienne as always) and great direction (that was the most bearable scene between Robb and Talisa yet, even before the pregnancy reveal–it was sexy but not gratuitous, playful, and showed the range of emotions both characters were feeling).

  28. Stone Cold Bastard
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

    Kenneth,

    Yeah the Sansa/Margaery scene was pointless, other than to drive home that Sansa is beyond naive and clueless and the Tyrells are good liars and playing the game. And it’s pointless scenes like this that take away from much more important scenes, ie Bran.

  29. Arthur
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

    Dany’s schene was amazing. I loved it! Besides the obvious reasons with the dragons and her being a total badass. I may sound like a perv for saying this but it is the truth…

    Dany’s outfit was sexy as hell, the subtlety of her nipple showing through the fabric was awesome. She is really becoming the all around badass from the books. The books make it known that legend of her beauty spread for and wide.

    This episode really visually captured both Dany’s beauty, elagance and ruthless ambition.

    I really hope D&D, Cogman and all the other writers keep up the awesomeness in Dany’s storyline, for me IMO her scenes have been the best by far.

    Keep her sexy (like in the outfit she wore this week) and ruthless…

    I couldn’t have asked for a better Dany scene…

  30. KaneKare
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:42 pm | Permalink

    What happend to Dany’s bloodriders? I think there was one still left alive that was a combo of two from the novels (name alluding me right now). I feel Ike we haven’t seen him this season

  31. GG
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:42 pm | Permalink

    At this point, I’m praying that Sansa is faking stupidity. Surely, after all she’s been through, she can’t be this moronic.

  32. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:42 pm | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard:
    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    ADWD, page 473:

    “He wanted to hit her, to smash that mocking smile off her face. He wanted to kiss her, to fuck her right there on the table and make her cry his name. But he knew he dare not touch her, in anger or in lust. Reek, Reek, my name is Reek. I must not forget my name. He jerked to his feet and made his way wordlessly to the doors, limping on his maimed feet.”

    So there.

    That says he wanted to. You don’t have to have fully functioning genitals to want to fuck somebody. The notion that something was done to Theon’s boys parts is hardly one I made up just now. It’s pretty well accepted by now.

  33. Petearys
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:42 pm | Permalink

    Just hit with me with the comments above of Talisa/Jeyne being pregnant, certainly complicates book theories, as with the Blackfish apparently going to Edmure’s wedding? And is Tormund supposed to have crossed the wall??

    Anyone want to she’d some light these? Seems like messing with some important structure to me…

  34. Kate
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:42 pm | Permalink

    Some great acting by Alfie Allen -

  35. JamesL
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:43 pm | Permalink

    The PW should have been the season finale this season. They could have covered more ground this season if they wanted to and then we wouldn’t have had to have 2 mediocre filler episodes in a row. The slow pace and filler will be even more of an issue next season. There was never enough material in ASOS for 2 full season, I’ve been saying that since I first heard they were going to do that. It is the longest book but not by that much and it certainly doesn’t need 10 extra hours compared to the first 2 seasons.

  36. GG
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    After The Pointy End & Blackwater, I cannot understand why GRRM was given this ep. It’s nothing but filler. With exception of the bear scene, which only lasted 2 mins, nothing of substance happened. Why wasn’t he given ep 8/9/10? All of them have excellent plot developments to dive into. The ep was way better than last week but below GoT usual standard and far below the standard to which I would hold a GRRM-written ep.

  37. redqueen
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    Always ends much too quickly when you want it to go on and on.

    Bran is becoming much darker and his accident was “meant to happen”. The Reed kids are leading Bran but they are being led by an even more sinister force. Osha’s monologue was again written by GRRM (as Cersei’s was with Tommen) so it was meant to put Bran and the Reeds on the side of the White Walkers. Probably a lot more information that we think.

    Jamie and Brienne were great. Locke will get his just rewards as I recall. Loved the line with Jamie and the discredited maester when Jamie said he had saved half a million people.

    New information about Melisandra, she was “raised up” by the Red God. Raised up from the dead perhaps.

  38. Utiz4321
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    Any body catch that tellessa is pregnant and what that could mean for the song of ice and five series, regarding a certain theory about a girl named Jane?

  39. Skipjack
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:46 pm | Permalink

    I can’t be the only one who had Vargo Hoat shouting “Kingthlayer! You thlew my bear!” in his head even if that didn’t correspond to the action. I liked the episode, in fact it felt like the show was back after such a disappointing turn last week.

    The truth is that it I don’t expect much more pace until the ninth episode considering how much of this season is the beginning of the third book, things don’t get really hectic until later.

  40. Wrath of the Gods
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:46 pm | Permalink

    Talissa tho… DAT ASS!!!!

    Great episode, love how Dany’s become a straight badass throughout the course of this season. Only thing that bothered me… is the Blackfish going to the wedding too? How the hell is that going to work out?

  41. Wolfman27
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:46 pm | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard:
    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    ADWD, page 473:

    “He wanted to hit her, to smash that mocking smile off her face. He wanted to kiss her, to fuck her right there on the table and make her cry his name. But he knew he dare not touch her, in anger or in lust. Reek, Reek, my name is Reek. I must not forget my name. He jerked to his feet and made his way wordlessly to the doors, limping on his maimed feet.”

    So there.

    Just because he had the urge to fuck someone doesn’t mean he has a penis. The quote that WeirwoodTreeHugger provides strongly suggests that he lost his penis. There was another part in the book where Theon remembers how he lost “…that other thing”. I’d post the exact quote if I could remember it or had the book on hand. Just because it wasn’t blatantly written that he got castrated doesn’t mean you can’t put other parts of the book together to piece together what happened. GRRM wrote this episode himself, so now he himself has pretty much confirmed it.

    Also, I’m fairly certain that Theon’s cock won’t be playing a significant role in the next two books anyways, so no need to be so upset about it.

  42. Aldair
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:46 pm | Permalink

    I really liked the Tormund scene. It was hilarious!

  43. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:47 pm | Permalink

    On rewatch I was very touched by Brienne calling Jaime “Ser Jaime”

  44. GoT
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:47 pm | Permalink

    I always have to watch this season’s episodes more than once. It’s too much stuff, so many new storylines, even though I’ve read the books!

    It was good, better than 3×06 IMO…

    But I found two things quite interesting, considering that GRRM wrote the episode:

    - Yes, Theon is really gelded. No more speculation in the books.
    - Talisa/Jeyne is pregnant and Blackfish will attend to the wedding, which means he’ll manage to escape with her and go back to Riverrun.

  45. NoOne
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:47 pm | Permalink

    Jamie is one of my favorite characters and seeing him in front of Brienne clumsily trying to save her from the bear for no reason nearly made me cry, such a small but emotional moment. Ok, continue complaining about Tormund’s haircut or whatever.

  46. Fourth Of His Name
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:48 pm | Permalink

    JamesL, “The PW should have been the season finale this season….”

    while I agree… I can’t help but think that the show catching up with the books so quickly is a HUGE factor. Splitting ASoS into 2ish seasons gives GRRM time to (at least) finish the next book. Of course, the show catching up with the books – and then having to take a hiatus/end suddenly – has been a fear from the beginning.

  47. JamesL
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:49 pm | Permalink

    They also need to stop editing out some of the more exciting sequences in the books. Some people have complained that the show is too slow and there is a lack of action and they have a point sometimes. Last season they got rid of weasel soup which would have been awesome and this season they edited out the Battle at the Fist. In the books Sam and Gilly have two exciting sequences beyond the Wall, first he slays the White Walker and then later he and Gilly are attacked by a bunch of Wights until Coldhands comes to save them. I was hoping we would see Sam slay the white walker this week and then they would get attacked by wights next week but it looks like are going to combine these events in the show so instead of two exciting sequences with Sam and Gilly we only get one. Sam and Gilly being attacked and surrounded by tons of wights would have been an awesome creepy scene but I doubt we will see that if next week is also Sam the Slayer, lets just hope they don’t have Coldhands kill the White Walker.

  48. The DarkStar
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:49 pm | Permalink

    I thought this was maybe the best this season.

    -Dragons and their mom were amazing, and most importantly, they were amazing while chilling in a tent, not during some epic scene.
    -Finally Jon is likable and Ygritte is the best character the series has going for it.
    -Jamie is a HERO
    -Rob/Talisa stuff was both needed and good.

  49. GG
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:49 pm | Permalink

    Can Theon be done now? Can we not see him again til season 5/6. I hate shocks just for the sake of shocking you. This story is adding nothing to the plot of the season and is just a black hole for screen time. Enough already. No one cares about Theon.

  50. Andrew
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:49 pm | Permalink

    Petearys,

    There are plenty of ways they can easily reallign these characters with their book arcs later on. None of these changes are especially earth shattering, as far as the plot is concerned.

    Off the top of my head, Blackfish and Jeyne escape together, Tormund falls back across the wall after Jons betrayal (eliminating the smaller battle of Castle Black, leaving it open to build up to the Battle of the Wall next season), and there are other possibilities as well. The writing staff on this show are very smart people, they’re not going to dig themselves into a hole they can’t get out of.

  51. H.S.
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

    I know it cannot be the same as the books but leaving out Brienne’s bite on Locke/Vargo Hoat after the bear pit makes her character kind of “damsel in distress”. Don’t you think?

  52. CH
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:52 pm | Permalink

    I don’t understand why they spent all last season making Osha out to be a near-replacement for Jojen, & now all she does is throw temper tantrums.

    Talisa pregnant is … interesting. Not sure where they’re going with that just yet.

    It was better than last week’s episode, which felt like filler, but I think I expected more from GRRM’s episode.

    Was anyone else overly excited by the chain Tyrion gave Shae?

  53. TonyGen
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

    JamesL:
    The PW should have been the season finale this season. They could have covered more ground this season if they wanted to and then we wouldn’t have had to have 2 mediocre filler episodes in a row. The slow pace and filler will be even more of an issue next season. There was never enough material in ASOS for 2 full season

    It pretty certainly won’t be. The Red Wedding happens like 2/3 of the way through ASOS. Season 4 is certainly doing to dip into AFFC/ADWD material for a lot of the storylines.

    If they had went all the way through the purple wedding this season they would be burning through the source material even faster. D&D are willing to keep going beyond where Martin is but they shouldn’t rush that happening, a slower episode now and then is perfectly okay. Things will pick up.

  54. JamesL
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

    Fourth Of His Name,

    I think that is one of the main reasons why they are doing it. If this book series was done I highly doubt they would be dedicating 2 full seasons to ASOS. I know there is no way they could cover the whole book in 10 episodes but they could have gotten to the PW if they wanted to but they wanted save stuff for next season.

  55. Michel
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:54 pm | Permalink

    I’m pretty sure Brienne will encounter Locke in S4 or S5, it is gonna be a nice change, since Brienne doesn’t do much in aFfC and aDwD

  56. Arthur
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:54 pm | Permalink

    NoOne,

    Hey my throat got lumpy with excitement in that scene too! I don’t know why I’m such a nerd but I get so emotionally excited during some of these scenes my eyes tear…

    The only scene I didn’t like was Bran’s. I personally don’t care about the character Osha or whatever they call her in the show. I want more backstory on Meera and Jojen…

    Maybe her little backstory will have a payoff because once they get to the wall maybe because of that story we will know why she doesn’t go with Bran and the Reeds beyond the wall and instead goes with Rickon in a different direction…

    Besides that theory of mine I don’t see any reason to hear Osha’s story.

  57. Jared
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:55 pm | Permalink

    A transitional episode, but a very good one. Maybe it was more stylistically disjointed than last week (and didn’t have a monologue at the end to tie things together) but it was exceptionally well-directed (Michelle McLaren is one of the best in the business) and there was so much good stuff.

    The bear pit scene was amazing. Props to Little Bart – he earned that solo credit! That scene one of my Top 5 favorite moments in all 5 books, and they pulled it off. My only issue was that they didn’t have “I only rescue maidens” line, but there is still time for that exchange to happen (it might not have quite as much impact with more distance, but oh well). Jaime and Brienne have at least three episodes worth of ‘get to know each other better’ conversations before they reach King’s Landing, unless the writers invent something else for them to do. And Jaime did tell Bolton to give his regards to Robb Stark, so I’m a happy guy.

    One more Jaime and Brienne note: The scene where they say goodbye to each other was great. Both actors excelled at making their few words count and letting the silence do the rest.

    The Jon material really stood out this week as well. The dialogue sparked (loved that “All men must die, but first we’ll live” made it into the show’), and Kit Harrington and Rose Leslie are really starting to play well off of one another. Too bad it can’t last

    Tywin ‘counseling’ Joffrey was gold. I loved the moment where Tywin paused as he entered the throne room, and the guards behind him immediately knew that he meant ‘don’t take another step or else’. That’s power.

    WeirwoodTreeHugger:
    Could the Talisa pregnancy be a trick being played on us by GRRM and or D&D?There are three possible implications from this news:
    1)Talisa and fetus will die at the RW upping the tragedy level
    2)Talisa is a Lannister spy and is lying to increase his devotion to her even more.
    3)The Jeyne is pregnant with a Stark heir theory is true
    Since any of these could be the case we don’t have any more info than we got from reading the books.
    Well played show!

    So Talisa’s pregnant! Somebody check Westeros. org – I think a decent number of purists may have spontaneously combusted when they heard that bit of news. Of course she could be lying, but I don’t subscribe to the ‘Talisa is a spy’ theory, so I’ll take it at face value for now. I still think Theory 1 is the most likely, but 3 could still be in play as it looks like the Blackfish is going to the Wedding – maybe he’ll find a way get her to safety (I seriously doubt D&D would kill him off at the RW, or let him be taken prisoner like Edmure). We’ll find out in two weeks. One question to consider though: does this news mean that Robb will not have the discussion with Catelyn about naming Jon his heir, or will he still go through with it as a backup plan?.

  58. Ryan Genualdi
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:56 pm | Permalink

    I really liked Osha’s monologue. I think Natalia Tena did some really great work. It reminds us that there are things still back there. One of my favorite scenes from the first season was her conversation with Luwin. “I’m not talkin’ about owls and shadowcats.” Chills.

    This was just a really great scene I thought. It checks us back into Bran’s storyline and also clues us into the complexity of their situation. It felt like they had just been “walking” for awhile with no apparent context to what they are trying to achieve, even with the Reeds arrival. These moments of exposition between the characters makes the traveling incredibly more dynamic. It also gave Osha more subtext. Which is never a bad thing. If the secondary characters don’t have moment like Osha’s, they will bog down the main characters plot line. And the show has to be much more aware of its characterization as a show, rather than a book. So yeah. Really loved that monologue. And reminding me of Season 1 is never a bad thing.

    The one scene I didn’t like, at all, was Theon’s. We get it. That long overplayed weird sex thing was unnecessary. I would have rather seen more Dany conversation. Or Sansa.

    I also though the Robb/Talisa scene could have had some more complexity to it. Maybe an insightful moment into Robb’s immaturity, but more explicitly stated. I’m waiting for a scene between him and Catelyn where they sort of make a peace between their mistakes.

  59. Butterbumps
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

    By the way, I’m wondering where Locke and his crew can handily find a bear for entertainment, given that Harrenhal is just a temporary stop for Boltons? I get that Vargo Hoat in the book might just have a bear with them, because given how crazy and nomadic they are, it’s understandable. But for a group of soldiers like Locke’s, is that kind of weird? Not bashing the show or anything. I’m just wondering out loud here.

  60. jasonw
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,
    I disagree,
    I think Rob dying with no real up will be a huge low for the show. This is great. The PW and the trial will be a great arc for season 4. Would you introduce the Martells after the wedding? This would not work. I was always for PW being in season 4 and am glad they are going that route.

  61. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

    They finally did Jon justice. Hallelujah! My favorite character from the books finally came to life for the first time since season 1. And Kit wasn’t too bad, either. I’m starting to think Iceland hindered most of the actors’ abilities. I’ve said my peace in another thread. I liked the episode and would put it as the 3rd best of the season. Not because of huge events or a ton of plot progression, but because of the character portrayals. Not one failed in this episode.

  62. M
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    So do we get a Curtain Call for Theon’s manparts?

  63. thisone
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    So Cat and Robb won’t discuss the prospect of legitimizing Jon Snow before the RW? That was one thing I was really looking forward to.

  64. Child of Woods
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    I liked Tyrion’s foreshadowing of juggling. :)

    Just some Theories:
    I don’t think GRRM would ruin anything for us just for the sake of the show. So Talisa being preggo means she dies.
    When Roose kills Robb they will reveal Ramsay I feel
    Brienne will kill Locke as opposed to Biter.

  65. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 12, 2013 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    Jared,

    I hope they don’t leave out Robb’s will. It ties in so nicely with Stannis’ offer to make Jon Lord of Winterfell and Jon’s guilt about pretty much wanting to be Robb.

  66. LordDavos12
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:01 am | Permalink

    I really enjoyed the scene where Jaime said goodbye to Brienne, and also the Mel/Gendry scene.

    I like the Dany scene as well, but something felt really off when they were using a camera shot that seemed to be Dany’s eyes (when the Yunkai gentleman was speaking to her). Minor nitpick, but I just thought it didn’t fit.

  67. Child of Woods
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:01 am | Permalink

    jasonw:
    JamesL,
    I disagree,
    I think Rob dying with no real up will be a huge low for the show.This is great.The PW and the trial will be a great arc for season 4.Would you introduce the Martells after the wedding?This would not work.I was always for PW being in season 4 and am glad they are going that route.

    What’s PW?

  68. Lin Beifunk
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:02 am | Permalink

    Butterbumps,

    Just speculation, but maybe they went and captured one in the woods or something. I do know they were fairly common as entertainment in our own medieval times, so I suppose it is possible…but how the folks at HHall nabbed it in a few days is up to you.

  69. LordDavos12
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:03 am | Permalink

    thisone:
    So Cat and Robb won’t discuss the prospect of legitimizing Jon Snow before the RW? That was one thing I was really looking forward to.

    Ahh I forgot about that. I’m with you in hoping it’s not cut (like Theon’s junk).

  70. LordDavos12
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:03 am | Permalink

    Child of Woods: What’s PW?

    Purple Wedding, aka when Joffrey finally bites it

  71. kelly
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:04 am | Permalink

    Like a few others have mentioned. I think Talisa’s pregnancy is very interesting. However, I don’t think that Talisa’s pregnancy necessarily confirms that Jeyne Westerling is or was pregnant in the books. I think Talisa’s fate at the RW will tell us that. If she lives and is taken captive then I would think that more or less confirms that Jeyne is alive and pregnant in the books. But if Talisa dies at the RW then it would seem that Jeyne is inconsequential. At least it seems that way to me.

    Enjoyed this episode a lot. Dany and the dragons are amazing and the interaction between Jaime and Brienne is my favorite thing about this season. And thank GRRM for a sex scene that actually included some intimacy. Bravo!

  72. TC
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:04 am | Permalink

    For the love of Pete – they need to explain what the fuck is going on with Theon. As a book reader I know, but for non-book readers (wife, friends, bro in law) they are all like what the fuck is this shit. We are now 7 deep and he is still just getting nails ripped off and his cock cut off but non-readers are starting to walk away. He is such a huge part of this show now – why!! They can overlook little shit like how the fuck Barristan found Dany, etc., etc., but you gotta at least throw them a bone on Theon. Need to keep these people to grow the show…

  73. jasonw
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:05 am | Permalink

    Child of Woods,

    The Purple(?) Wedding, its Joffrey’s wedding, whatever color i was referring to Joff’s wedding

  74. KG
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:05 am | Permalink

    Eh with Ros dead, he didn’t really need it anymore.

  75. Butterbumps
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:08 am | Permalink

    I always think of it as Pie Wedding because of the humongous pigeon pie and all that jist. Hah, not until now that I realized it’s actually Purple Wedding.

  76. Dexter
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:09 am | Permalink

    GG,

    Speak for yourself. Theon is one of my favorite characters.

  77. Arthur
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:10 am | Permalink

    The Rob and Talisa scene was well played…

    Got to see robs chest and butt and Talisa’s booty and the nudity was relevant to the story and gave the viewer a sense of us peeking into a very private and personal beautiful moment these characters were sharing.

    The Theon scene really gave us a sense of how bad he is being mindfucked… So the nudity was relevant.

    The Khaleesi nipple revealing outfit was relevant to the Khaleesi’s badass/sexiness.

    I don’t know… I feel like I’m in awe of TV Dany now, just like I was with book Dany.

    I really hope Emilia gets a few awards because she really is bringing Dany to life.

  78. Syrio
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:11 am | Permalink

    Child of Woods,

    Brienne didn’t kill biter, Gendry did.

  79. JamesL
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:12 am | Permalink

    TC,

    The amount of screen for Theon has been the biggest mistake of the season. His plot has gone nowhere and is repetitive and really annoying a lot of people. All we needed is one scene this season of Theon being tortured in “boys” basement and that would have been enough and then at the end of the season reveal who has him captive, he didnt need a story arc this season. At least we got some hot naked chicks in his scene this week though.

  80. Chris
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:13 am | Permalink

    Finally getting to a painful reality from the story.
    For all she’s brave and tough and hot and passionate, Ygritte really isn’t all that smart or sophisticated and, like many of the Wildlings, has no real clue about strategy or about warfare.
    Glad to see that’s come over from the books.
    It will be interesting to see how it plays in to… a couple of interesting developments coming up.

  81. Utiz4321
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:13 am | Permalink

    GG,

    Look they can’t simply ignore theon because of his story arch. It is not shock value for the sake of shock value it has a purpose. If you don’t want to see a particularly violent and at times gruesome story game of thrones is not the show for you and hasn’t been from the begaining. The books are also not for you, try once upon a time.

  82. Arthur
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:14 am | Permalink

    M,

    I second this!

    WiC you got to have a curtain call for Theon’s testicles… With a recap of all his sexual conquests up until that point… Lol.

  83. Stone Cold Bastard
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:17 am | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger: That says he wanted to.You don’t have to have fully functioning genitals to want to fuck somebody.The notion that something was done to Theon’s boys parts is hardly one I made up just now.It’s pretty well accepted by now.

    And how would you know that you don’t have to have fully functioning genitals to want to fuck somebody? In the show it’s accepted, not in the book.

  84. Phil
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:17 am | Permalink

    I swear the first 15 minutes of this episode was nothing but various characters talking about sex, with a Talisa/Robb sex scene added in. Seriously, every conversation in the first quarter of the show was about sex. Time better spent elsewhere. The bear scene should’ve been longer, really just waiting for Osha and Rickon to split off now hopefully that happens next episode. Tywin/Joffrey scene was GREAT! Jamie’s scenes with Qyburn and the bear….AMAZING. Rest of it was filler.

    5 great to amazing episodes, but the last 2 have been a little lackluster. If I didn’t know it, wouldn’t have beleived that GRRM wrote this

  85. LordDavos12
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:19 am | Permalink

    I suppose I can understand the complaints about Theon…but as horrible as it may be, it’s absolutely necessary. If we had one scene of torture and nothing else…people would just be like “Oh, Theon was tortured.” Theon diving into his shell and becoming Reek is a major plot point, and makes his redemption in Dance all the more powerful. It needs to be shown just how much he goes through to get to that point, otherwise watchers would think it’s the same old Theon the whole time. Spoiler alert, it’s not. His transformation from cocky Iron Islander to subhuman to hero is a big deal. “My name is Theon” would have NO impact whatsoever if we only got one scene of implied torture.

    Granted, this is hoping that they actually explain the “Reek” part of it.

  86. The dear Hunter
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:20 am | Permalink

    I am certain they castrated Theon in the books. I think quite often readers are blinded by their outright hatred of Theon and don’t pay as much attention as they should. He definitely isn’t one of my favorite characters, but I don’t hate him in the least. I think it’s quite obvious GRRM wants us to feel bad for him and maybe like him a little bit, so to persist in your despising of the character is not only stubborn but also shows a lack of perception. So what if he led to the destruction of a family we are finding increasingly hard to like? Get over it. I get the feeling that the Starks will predominately have a negative impact in the end so in a way Theon unintentionally helped a good cause.

  87. jill
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:22 am | Permalink

    LordDavos12:
    I suppose I can understand the complaints about Theon…but as horrible as it may be, it’s absolutely necessary.If we had one scene of torture and nothing else…people would just be like “Oh, Theon was tortured.”Theon diving into his shell and becoming Reek is a major plot point, and makes his redemption in Dance all the more powerful.It needs to be shown just how much he goes through to get to that point, otherwise watchers would think it’s the same old Theon the whole time.Spoiler alert, it’s not.His transformation from cocky Iron Islander to subhuman to hero is a big deal. “My name is Theon” would have NO impact whatsoever if we only got one scene of implied torture.

    Granted, this is hoping that they actually explain the “Reek” part of it.

    This.

  88. Child of Woods
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:22 am | Permalink

    Syrio,

    Yeah but Gendry is with Mel…

  89. darrylzero
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:22 am | Permalink

    Quick reaction, because I’m drunk and I have to sleep now:

    1) Brienne accepting her fate in that scene with Jaime, if he can guarantee the Stark girls’ safety, was one of the more devastating moments in the show to date. Well played, everyone. Best scene of the episode for me, which I thought overall was quite strong (though I wasn’t that into the early Jon/Ygritte scenes, which, to be fair got better — and gave Harrington the chance to show some hints of acting chops we haven’t seen since episode 1.4 or so if you ask me, very exciting).

    2) I was pretty skeptical of Osha’s monologue, but it improved as she went on, if only because Tena was really putting in some work there. I thought it was good overall, if maybe a little hammy, and for me it felt right by the end for the most part. It also justified, to an extent, some of her tension with the Reeds. This arc, and how it may divide some characters, is making more sense to me now and I’m glad for that.

  90. Child of Woods
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:24 am | Permalink

    LordDavos12,

    Ahaha that makes sense

  91. Richard
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:28 am | Permalink

    Seriously… nobody got the Castle Anthrax from Monty Python & The Holy Grail vibe from Theon and the two woman? Maybe I’m the only one here over 35 years old and showing my age….

  92. David The Grey
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:29 am | Permalink

    The only thing I didn’t like about this episode is that the phone rang right as Sandor was snatching up Arya and I missed his line! Argh!
    I did enjoy the entire episode – it moved quite quickly, for me. I really liked Jaime & Brienne’s parting, Jon Snow & Ygritte’s flirting, and Tyrion & Shae’s argument. I loved Dany’s scene, and agree with Winter that she’s had an amazing arc this season. I loved the music in her scene. And I think it’s fun that with each episode, we get another Tywin scene. Man, that guy is like Darth Vader – and loved how Joffrey practically had to force himself to remain on the throne as Twyin walked up the steps to talk to him.

    I chuckled at Locke’s goads to Jaime as he rode out of Harrenhal, and was half expecting Locke to get thrown into the pit, too. And that bear was awesome, it made even Brienne look tiny. I gasped when it took swipes at her.

    I’m giving this a 4 out of 5. I liked everything, but it didn’t have the same exciting thrill as episodes 4 and 5.

  93. Devo
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:29 am | Permalink

    Wenchsaver:
    Wow.Never disappoints.Is the Bastard gonna cut off Reek’s cock?That’s a lot worse than three fingers and two toes.

    It happens in the book too.

  94. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:30 am | Permalink

    TC,

    Only one non-reader I know understands what is going on with Theon or enjoys it. Well ok one knows what is going on (does not care for how long its taking) and one enjoys the scenes a bit too much…

    The one that guessed what is going on noticed the very first episode with Theon in shackles that it looked just like the Bolton flag from ep 3.02. Not a single other non-reader I know has liked the number of Theon scenes this year. I’m sure others out there do, but none I know.

  95. Stone Cold Bastard
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:30 am | Permalink

    JamesL:
    TC,

    The amount of screen for Theon has been the biggest mistake of the season. His plot has gone nowhere and is repetitive and really annoying a lot of people. All we needed is one scene this season of Theon being tortured in “boys” basement and that would have been enough and then at the end of the season reveal who has him captive, he didnt need a story arc this season. At least we got some hot naked chicks in his scene this week though.

    Yeah, Bran’s arc has really suffered, it’s been pushed off to the side for Tyrell scheming and the redundancy of Theon’s arc, which are so….boring. Thankfully Arya/BWB are getting ample screen time, but Stannis fans must be pissed.

    Missing out on Bran’s epic wargness, ditto Jon’s and Arya’s.

  96. Lord Swollen Ball
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:31 am | Permalink

    I loved arya’s line about her god. A call back to syrio in the first season. There is only one god, death.

  97. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:33 am | Permalink
  98. KG
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:33 am | Permalink

    Bran’s story is dull as dishwater in the books, too. I could not care less about what happens to him.

  99. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:33 am | Permalink

    A slower episode, but still a good one, though I guess I’m one of the few that really liked last week’s episode as well.

    THE BEST:
    –Danys being a total bad-ass in general with scary dragons.
    –Tywin being a total bad-ass in general and not needing scary dragons.
    –The bear! (Curtain call for Bart?)
    –The continued development of Jaime Lannister.
    –”I’ve known warm shit I liked better than Walder Frey.”
    –I was a big fan of Osha’s monologue. It sets up a lot of things – it sets up the eventual separation of the two parties, and provides Osha with some kind of mission as we know later on with Rickon. It is also certainly possible that Osha and Rickon WILL continue to Castle Black, where Rickon and Jon Snow will briefly reunite before a decision is made to embark for Skagos, White Harbor, or somewhere else in general (they won’t keep them at the Wall — too risky, especially with assholes like Janos Slynt and Alliser Thorne about). It also gives you an idea of the greater mission of Jojen/Bran, and Bran’s desires.
    –Gendry and Melisandre together.
    –The nice callback to the Blackwater battle, seeing the ships.
    –Tyrion and Shae’s scene together. The developing rift that isn’t likely to end here. And the bitter line that ends that scene: “I’m your whore. And when you’re tired of fucking me, I will be nothing.”
    –Tormund Giantsbane becoming more jovial and funny. Good; that’s the character.

    LESS ENAMORED OF…
    –The Theon Greyjoy fuckfest that ends in a hell again. It does drive home the fact that he’s now sufficiently shellshocked by his torture to be wary of and fearful of the women, believing they were sent by the boy. But it really feels like we’re treading water.
    –After taking 3 or so episodes for Melisandre to reach the Riverlands, she’s managed to get back to Blackwater Bay in one episode…plausible trip in, Littlefinger-esque jet packs on the way out.

  100. David The Grey
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:34 am | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Me too – in my head I echoed softly “my name is Jaime”. I could see it in his face that she really touched him by saying it that way. I love their scenes!

  101. Jan Fennick
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:36 am | Permalink

    FWIW, historically, castrati singers were able to (and did) have sex because men can get erections without testicles. They just can’t ejaculate.

    Sex without a penis (as in Varys’ case “root and stem”) is pretty much impossible though. Boy had a gelding knife in his hand (the kind they use to castrate farm animals) so it depends on just how much he cut off. I always assumed in ADWD that Theon was castrated rather than fully mutilated.

    Stone Cold Bastard: And how would you know that you don’t have to have fully functioning genitals to want to fuck somebody? In the show it’s accepted, not in the book.

  102. Michael274
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard,

    Yeah, because Bran’s story is really exciting in the book . I rather see Tyrell scheming and Theon’s torture than Bran’s shitty storyline from the book anytime .

  103. Mark
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:38 am | Permalink

    To those concerned that Talisa will be at the RW: now that she’s shared the news that she’s pregnant, Robb could easily send her back to Riverrun, probably under escort by the Blackfish. That’s what I’m hoping anyway.

  104. Phil
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:40 am | Permalink

    Also I’ve only read through book 3, so I’m hoping the changes with Gendry don’t change too much of his plot (if he has any) in the rest of the books. Especially with him finding out he’s Robert’s bastard. If he really is just a replacement, it shouldn’t matter based on book 3, but just concerned as it seems like a MAJOR change

  105. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:43 am | Permalink

    KG,

    This.
    Hi story is not being sort changed as much as drawn out because it is the weakest arc in the books. The most interesting parts they cut from Season 2/ Book II, and now his meager role in ASOS needs to be stretched out for 2 seasons. Even when they move some of his ADWD arc forward they will the need to stretch that arc out for multiple seasons as well.

    I do think we will get more stories and exposition next year when they start having to really create scenes for him…. I hope! For me the only saving aspect of his dreadful story in the books was the historical exposition!

  106. Bob
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:44 am | Permalink

    Why does there have to be a “reason” for every line of dialogue?

  107. iam76
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:45 am | Permalink

    Completely disagree. These scenes lay the foundation for the boy character. Ina show with constant grey characters and white characters to get a dark character it is important.

    GG:
    Can Theon be done now? Can we not see him again til season 5/6. I hate shocks just for the sake of shocking you. This story is adding nothing to the plot of the season and is just a black hole for screen time. Enough already. No one cares about Theon.

  108. jasonw
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:47 am | Permalink

    Mark,

    except there is this screencap from one of the trailers

    http://tumblrofthrones.tumblr.com/image/45918294907

  109. LordDavos12
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:47 am | Permalink

    Mark:
    To those concerned that Talisa will be at the RW: now that she’s shared the news that she’s pregnant, Robb could easily send her back to Riverrun, probably under escort by the Blackfish. That’s what I’m hoping anyway.

    I might be totally wrong and remembering incorrectly, but I thought one of the earlier trailers had a shot of the RW and Talisa was at Robb’s side, with a Manderly behind them (if that helps).

  110. LordDavos12
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:48 am | Permalink

    jasonw,

    Ah beat me to it!

  111. Charles2
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:49 am | Permalink

    JamesL:
    TC,

    The amount of screen for Theon has been the biggest mistake of the season. His plot has gone nowhere and is repetitive and really annoying a lot of people. All we needed is one scene this season of Theon being tortured in “boys” basement and that would have been enough and then at the end of the season reveal who has him captive, he didnt need a story arc this season. At least we got some hot naked chicks in his scene this week though.

    Theon’s plot has gone nowhere because it’s still going places. And you know where it’s going. Far better flashbacks.

  112. The Kingslayer
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:50 am | Permalink

    shit i was waiting for that bear scene for three years. it was awsome!! but i only miss Jaime’s joke. “You are still a maiden, aren’t you? Because i save only maidens”
    and theory about Theon became true. good episode, but if truth be told not the best from GRRM

  113. The Kingslayer
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:53 am | Permalink

    i don’t understand why the Blackfish is going to the wedding. it seems that he he will not play some role in the finale books

  114. Hounded
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:54 am | Permalink

    Wait, was the Blackfish travelling with Robb to the twins??????????

  115. argilac's antler
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:55 am | Permalink

    The only thing that bothered me personally about the Theon scene was how cruel the girls were themselves. The seemed really into it even after RS appeared and revealed the game. That kinda threw me off, like we’re just at this evil place where everyone is evil and evil this and evil that. Couldn’t it just be RS who’s getting his kicks off the torture?

  116. LordDavos12
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:57 am | Permalink

    argilac’s antler:
    The only thing that bothered me personally about the Theon scene was how cruel the girls were themselves. The seemed really into it even after RS appeared and revealed the game. That kinda threw me off, like we’re just at this evil place where everyone is evil and evil this and evil that. Couldn’t it just be RS who’s getting his kicks off the torture?

    To be fair, Ramsay probably threatened to do horrible things if they didnt’ comply….maybe some fun with his dogs? :)

  117. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:59 am | Permalink

    The Kingslayer,

    Maybe he will escape the chaos or perhaps he will take the place of the Greatjon and be taken prisoner after taking on many men?

  118. GoT
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:04 am | Permalink

    As I expected, the rewatch was much better!

    The great expectation we have each week kinda makes the episodes look less than they really are! The dialogues were great and the bear pit scene was EPIC! Great character development!

  119. DH87
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:06 am | Permalink

    Bob: Why does there have to be a “reason” for every line of dialogue?

    To paraphrase Kurt Vonnegut, “If a sentence [or line], no matter how excellent, does not illuminate your subject in some new and useful way, scratch it out.” (How to Write with Style. 1985.)

  120. Varamyr Fourskins
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:06 am | Permalink

    My question is: how exactly is Dany going to fight to save humanity when she wants to kill-off a quarter of the world’s population (i.e. those who own slaves)? Because, that’s the thing about being a savior, isn’t it? You’re not just fighting to save the good and the innocent. You’re fighting to preserve ALL of humanity — good and bad. You’re saving babies, but you’re also saving child-murderers. You’re saving fair maidens, but you’re also saving dirty rapists. Just as Bran & Hodor belong to humanity — so do Ramsay & Reek. You’re fighting for them all…

    Which is exactly what the first Azor Ahai did. HE FORGED HIS SWORD THROUGH HIS WIFE’S HEART (*said while shouting*). That’s a bad, singled-minded motherfucker, right there. He killed his beloved wife to save things like slavery, and child-murder, and rape (i.e. to preserve humanity… and ALL their vices). And, I don’t think Dany would sacrifice a single silver hair on her head to save the slaver cities, let alone her beloved dragons? Do you?

    But what about Jaime? Does he resent humanity for their vices, or does he grudgingly accept them (whether he hates them for it or not)? Is he willing to murder his own family members in cold blood in order to serve a larger purpose (see: random Lannister cousin who was a fill-in for the Frey boy from the books, AND Aerys Targaryen, i.e. dear ol’ dad). Call me crazy, but I think he just might be willing to do it… even though he doesn’t want power… regardless of the fact that he is the rightful king (Aerys’ only living male child — unless you believe Varys’ story… but that’s for a later season).

  121. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:06 am | Permalink

    I know GRRM wrote his episode and they shifted scenes around a couple times, hence the title changes. Does anyone know which scenes where moved around from /to this episode?

  122. argilac's antler
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:10 am | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard: Yeah, Bran’s arc has really suffered, it’s been pushed off to the side for Tyrell scheming and the redundancy of Theon’s arc, which are so….boring. Thankfully Arya/BWB are getting ample screen time, but Stannis fans must be pissed.

    Missing out on Bran’s epic wargness, ditto Jon’s and Arya’s.

    Re: Stannis. I am. Although I really, really loved when we saw him with his family a few episodes back. Wish there was more of it.

    Re: the spoiler tag. I think that’s what Orell could have been hinting at when he mentioned to Ygritte about Jon. Sure, given the circumstances, the audience is meant to think he means about being a true Night’s Watchmen, but when I heard it, I was thinking being a warg. AFAIK, they can sort-of sense their own kind and being that Orell is experienced I get the feeling he could sense something familiar with Jon. Of course, Orell does also hate Jon for being a crow.

  123. Morrigan
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:10 am | Permalink

    No “I only rescue maidens”? :( Why, GRRM, whyyyyyy

  124. Surly
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:12 am | Permalink

    This episode was weak as hell. Aside from the Dany and Jaime/Brienne scenes, I refuse to believe George had anything to do with it.

  125. GoT
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:15 am | Permalink

    Daenerys is easily the most dumb character after Robb Stark, no doubt. She sets aside EVERY word of wisdom given by her advisors!

    She needed an army and she got one, a good one. Why take Yunkai? They’re not soldier trainers, she just want to free the slaves because of her ideals.

    No wonder she gets all screwed in ADWD, with all the Free Cities against her.

  126. Synnerman
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:15 am | Permalink

    The Kingslayer: i don’t understand why the Blackfish is going to the wedding. it seems that he he will not play some role in the finale books

    He could easily be filling the Greatjon role, who is taken prisoner by the Freys. That leaves him alive to get loose and do whatever the book version of Blackfish does in later seasons.

  127. WildSeed
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:16 am | Permalink

    H.S.:
    I know it cannot be the same as the books but leaving out Brienne’s bite on Locke/Vargo Hoat after the bear pit makes her character kind of “damsel in distress”. Don’t you think?

    Actually she was a damsel in distress. And Qyburn was only interested in
    Pain Research for the Maester Medical Association monthly journal.
    Don’t give up too soon though, more to come as her storyline continues
    to develop.
    I could almost swear the NCW mouthed ” they don’t pay me
    enough”, when hightailing it away from Bart the Bear.

    Even at attempting to allow the episode speak for itself, instead of applying
    anticipated outcomes, I still wound up feeling as if I was watching ” Game
    of Romance Times “. Kings Landing scenes were the strongest, along with
    Yunkai and Khaleesi.

  128. argilac's antler
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:17 am | Permalink

    LordDavos12: To be fair, Ramsay probably threatened to do horrible things if they didnt’ comply….maybe some fun with his dogs? :)

    That’s why I was expecting to see their faces filled with fright after RS entered the room, but they only seemed to smile more and went by his side. Small nitpick, I admit. The episode was great.

  129. Braincandy
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:17 am | Permalink

    Ugg. I think they hit the nudity quota! So annoying but was really effective in the Theon scene.
    Dany’s scenes are by far the best. Emilia is really owning it.
    I have to say the bear pit scene was a little boring and I agree I really wanted Jamie to push Locke into the pit. I’m actually not sure why it didn’t happen.

  130. Braincandy
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:21 am | Permalink

    Ugg. I think they hit the naked quota! So annoying but was really effective in the Theon scene.
    Dany’s scenes are by far the best. Emilia is really owning it.
    I have to say the bear pit scene was a little boring and I agree I really wanted Jamie to push Locke into the pit. I’m actually not sure why it didn’t happen.

  131. argilac's antler
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:21 am | Permalink

    I also didn’t mind the Sansa scene. She finally admitted what everyone always knew about her: that she’s stupid and kept believing in fairy tales after all she’s been through. I think it’s important now that’s she’s admitted it out loud so her character can start taking a turn down a smarter path.

    If not, then I blame the writers.

  132. Braincandy
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:22 am | Permalink

    Ugg. I think they hit the xxx quota! So annoying but was really effective in the Theon scene.
    Dany’s scenes are by far the best. Emilia is really owning it.
    I have to say the bear pit scene was a little boring and I agree I really wanted Jamie to push Locke into the pit. I’m actually not sure why it didn’t happen.

  133. WildSeed
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:27 am | Permalink

    I understand Osha’s placement, in underscoring the horror of the Wights,
    and the cruel magic of the Frostfangs, but I am equally uneasy about the
    shared trip between she and Bran. And where’s Rickon , Summer and
    Shaggy Dog ? I’m not too uneasy to wait for next season, but this had better
    make sense by then. Similar sentiment with Theon. The scenes in this case were
    as cruel intended as the books, but out of sync with the episode. Maybe this
    makes sense, there are indeed simultaneous plot driven scenes that don’t
    have to relate in any way. It’s the notion of ” themes” that throw me off.
    They are prominent as the ” what I would do for love ” theme that permeated
    S3 so far. Not at all how I depicted ASOIAF, but hey, it’s TV after all . The
    next pretty scene gives my eye something else to feast on.

  134. GoT
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:30 am | Permalink

    Dany was amazing! flawless and together with jaime/brienne the best scene in this episode

  135. WildSeed
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:32 am | Permalink

    Jen@House Stark: beloved King in the North made me want to puke

    Money shot my dear, and a parting gift for all his adoring fans of the heart (:

    The Yunkai and Kings Landing scenes had the most impact for me. Theon also,
    as an honorable mention.

  136. Doug M.
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:32 am | Permalink

    For foreshadowing I also liked Sansa asking Margery how she knew of such things… yes, her mother told her. And someday a Kettlebeck might try to tell her too…

    And as for Tyrion and Shae in the series vs the books: I always felt that there was a disconnect in how she ended up in Tywin’s bed in the book. I found it a challenge to buy that Cersei could get her testify against Tyrion and that she was “just a whore,” ending up in Tywin’s bed. This setup in the series helps to justify her turn from Tyrion more clearly, such that in a way it’s him that pushes her away.

  137. Violentos
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:42 am | Permalink

    It was great to see all three grown dragons in one scene. Quite a lot of dragon action in that scene!

    I was wondering how they would pull off the bear fight scene. It was done well. I guess I set my expectations bar up super high, because I still felt that it could have been better, but I’ll take it.

    The Theon scene wasn’t interesting to me at all and the sex scene made me uncomfortable. It just felt like watching a porno. Doesn’t help when you watch with your mother either.

    The last 3 episodes have been very slow. Makes me wonder if they really did need 2 seasons for book 3. More like 1 and a half.

  138. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:48 am | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard,
    Kenneth,

    Actually it does serve a purpose….in their conversation Sansa asks Margery how she knew so much about how women are “pleased” by men. She asks ‘did your mother tell you?’. Margery pauses ever so subtlety and says ‘yes, my mother taught me’. And if you think she was telling the truth I have some swampland to sell you! In the books isn’t there some controversy about Margery being impure or at least Cerseis trying to snare Margery in some bedroom improprieties in order to weaken her hold on Joffrey? I think the writers are beginning that story line which will continue into next season.. Surely some of you caught the way she said it was a lie?! Don’t you remember how she offered to have a ménage a trois with Renly and her brother so she could get pregnant? No innocent woman would EVER propose such a thing much less think of such a thing.

  139. RamsaySnow
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:52 am | Permalink

    Wow, George is now ruining the show too. He already ruined the books, where the last two books turned into something completely different than the first three, and he’s now stalling the TV show. Please D&D, please, just keep him away from the show. Keep the virus away! Let him do whatever he does these days (supervising editing of Tyrion’s quotes, or whatever), because he’s certainly not writing and he’s incapable of writing anything of any worth, anymore.

    Remove him from the writing team, and the show stands a chance. I know some may say he’s only ruining one episode per season, but this, my dear friends, is one episode too much.

  140. JKD
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:52 am | Permalink

    I’ll forgive a subpar written episode from GRRM if that means he’s spending quality time on Winds of Winter. And this was better than subpar.

  141. Braincandy
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:04 am | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ,

    Yes we get that nugget for Margery. Also, Talisa seems to write letters at important times wouldn’t you say? Once when Robb notices her and now when she’s pregnant.

  142. DjWeideman
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:04 am | Permalink

    Ryan,

    I was a little surprised at that, as well. I’d expect the Blackfish to be a little more respectful to the mother of the King in the North.

    Dany’s ‘negotiation’ scene was brilliant! As Yunkai’s emissary was being brought to her tent, I thought the budget would rear it’s ugly head and limit us to a peak at one dragon, but we got all three in a display of power and confidence, along with the wide shots of the Unsullied in ranks in a show of force. Loved it. And Emelia Clark is really showing us how the Targaryens get things done.

    Really liked the interplay between Jamie and Brienne tonight. Theirs has actually been, in my mind, the best of the various plotlines. That look that Brienne gives to Jamie as they walk away from the bear pit was another stab-in-the-heart moment. Nicholai and Gwen have just been spot-on. (Although I’d have liked the bear pit scene to go on a bit longer, as well. In the book, it was epic and I felt what we got was a little bit too brief, with very little tension.)

    It was also nice to see a bit more of Bran and get an idea of his future. I’m thinking of non-book readers when it comes to some of these plotlines, and wondering at the balancing act it takes to tie all this together in 54 minutes. If I could ask one thing of HBO, it would be to give D&D at least 2 more episodes a season. I’m all for a slower pace in some episodes to let the story breathe and give us some more insight into the characters. Not every episode needs to fly at a breakneck pace, and I think the 10-per-season limit is shackling the writers to a certain extent.

    Tywin/Joffrey – How awesome is Charles Dance in this role? This scene was almost as good as his scene with Diana Rigg last week. That little smirk as he walks away from Joffrey is priceless.

    Jon/Ygritte – Jon balancing his charge from Qhorin Halfhand and his growing love for Ygritte is making these scenes better the closer they get to the end of their mission. It’s also fun watching Ygritte playfully busting on Jon’s seriousness(“Mah dress is made of the purest silk from Tralalaliday!”)

    Oh, I do miss me some Arya kicking more butt, but I know it’s coming.

    P.S. Is it just me, or did the scene with Jamie and the Maester look like it was shot at the same location where Ned’s execution of the Night’s Watch deserter took place?

  143. Mimsy
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:07 am | Permalink

    If Talisa is lying.. I think I’ll punch someone. I want a baby Stark! …and I want Jon to raise him or her… cuz I don’t care about Talisa.

    Jon… I love it when you’re manly! But.. yeah… never threaten a poor girl that you’re gonna rip her silk dress.. she’ll cut you.

    I really enjoyed the Gendry reveal. The scene screamed BARATHEON and I loved it! I especially loved it that the next scene went straight to Arya. Oh… my ship has sailed with these two.

  144. MW
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:12 am | Permalink

    I am very concerned about what non-book-readers are going to think of the show after this episode.

    Haha just kidding. I don’t give a F. The show was awesome, as usual. The Dany scene was incredible.

  145. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:16 am | Permalink

    I liked how Brienne finally called him Jaime AND gave him the honorific of Ser. Jaime was speechless.

    Also loved Joffrey’s attempt to scoot as far away from his Grandfather as possible. For a sec there you could see he was scared shitless. Gleason is so good!

    And I really, really hope that the convo between Sansa and Margery marks the point at which Sansa starts to get a clue.

  146. argilac's antler
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:20 am | Permalink

    RamsaySnow,

    Can you go into *some* detail please? What was ruined?

  147. Mirri Maz
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:21 am | Permalink

    It was an ok episode, like last week i had some good moments but they are obviously stalling. Theon is becoming Danny from season 2, they could have spread his story a little more and not given us a torture scene per episode unless they are either going to make up a whole new story for him for season 4 or shuffle the stuff from Dance all the way to next season.

    On the other hand this is probably the best Jon Snow episode since I can’t remember when and it was much needed.

    I hope they give Cat something, she’s barely been on this season and mostly just sulking in the background and so much of the Red Wedding depends on her.

    I’m worried that they ran out of steam too fast this season, the wedding while a big event isn’t as spectacular as Blackwater and Danny taking Yunkai will be good but it’s slightly repetitive.

  148. LordDavos12
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:24 am | Permalink

    RamsaySnow,

    If George has already “ruined” the books and the show, why are you watching? He’s the whole reason this site exists.

  149. KG
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:26 am | Permalink

    Braincandy,

    STFU already.

  150. JamesL
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:26 am | Permalink

    I thought the first half of the episode was pretty bad but it got much better once Dany showed up and by the end I was more satisfied than I was last week. Dany is the shows biggest draw and she has been the best part about this season so I don’t know why they don’t give her some more scenes. She gets one quick scene an episode or she doesn’t even appear. With all the filler scenes this show has why don’t they give some to her. I hope there is a lot of Dany next week.

  151. argilac's antler
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:27 am | Permalink

    LordDavos12,

    Well, seeing as Ramsay is a fan of the first three books at least, he probably wants to see how they’re adapted. If he continues to watch after ASoS is over, then that’s a valid question. But I don’t want to put words in his mouth.

  152. Walter_Eagle
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:30 am | Permalink

    JamesL,

    Dany (along with her posse) is seemingly the only person confirmed to be in all of the last three episodes (although Arya is likely), so I imagine she’ll catch up to the others’ prominence.

  153. Mirri Maz
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:35 am | Permalink

    JamesL,

    I’m sure we will get tons of Danny scenes next season once she settles in Mereen for at least two seasons (and then we will probably complain that they are stalling).

  154. RamsaySnow
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:36 am | Permalink

    My dear friends, I’m watching because I’m interested in the story Martin started nearly half a century ago. I lost any hope that Martin will ever finish this story. In fact I don’t believe he’s physically or intellectually capable of finishing it any more. I have hope though that D&D will finish the story. That’s why I watch the TV adaptation, I fully support the TV adaptation, and we’ll watch it until the end. That’s why I don’t wait for the books anymore, don’t care about the TWOW and certainly won’t buy it, if it comes out. I had to force myself to finish Essos chapters in ADWD, a fan like me suffering while reading all the drivel, I’m not raping myself again, I’m done with reading his “writing”. Enough is enough. My stand is pretty logical, I don’t get what’s there not to understand.

  155. Walter_Eagle
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:37 am | Permalink

    Updated characters with the most lines in Season 3:

    1. Tyrion – 162
    2. Jaime – 119
    3. Arya – 80
    4. Jon – 79
    5. Cersei – 75
    6. Tywin – 74
    7. Robb – 73
    7. Sansa – 73
    9. Olenna – 70
    10. Thoros – 67

    11. Margaery – 66
    12. Ygritte – 65
    13. Theon – 64
    14. Brienne – 60
    14. Daenerys – 60
    16. Joffrey – 54
    17. Shae – 53
    18. Missandei – 52
    19. Bronn – 45
    19. Varys – 45

    21. Boy – 43
    22. Bran – 42
    23. Kraznys – 40
    23. Littlefinger – 40
    25. Beric/Talisa – 39

    (series regulars outside the top 25:)
    26. Talisa – 39
    27. Jorah – 38
    30. Davos – 36
    30. Gendry – 36
    32. Melisandre – 34
    35. Catelyn – 29
    36. Sandor – 28
    37. Stannis – 27
    39. Samwell – 25
    51. Jeor – 18

    I think Dany, Ygritte, Margaery, and maybe Joffrey have a shot at cracking the top 10 by season’s end.

  156. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:39 am | Permalink

    I still don’t get the rampant negativity over last week’s, but whatever.

    Overall I found this to be the weakest episode of the season, though there was plenty in it that I liked and even loved. I’ve been accepting of Theon’s torture up ’til now, but this week’s dose was even more elaborate than usual. A bit off-puttingly so.

    I found the bearpit sequence to be the biggest letdown, if I had to pick one. It didn’t have the visceral cinematic execution I was hoping for. A bit schizophrenic in practice. Loved Jaime-Brienne and Qyburn outside of this scene, though.

    Osha’s scene was quite necessary as far as the show is concerned. There is a little setup here as well as some well-timed illumination of her character (and keep in mind, this is GRRM writing her as he perceives her show self, a GoT/Tena interpretation of his character he has expressed admiration for). They finally revealed the root of her malaise concerning the Reeds, not just Beyond the Wall. She is perturbed by Old Gods mysticism because it connects Bran to something she truly dreads. We also see her make a connection to family, which tells us why she is so intent on delivering Bran to Jon in Castle Black. I found her scene to be one of the most purposeful in the entire episode.

    I may put this episode down as the weakest overall, but it was certainly a meaty one. I look forward to enjoying its subtleties over and over. As far as I’m concerned, there are no bad episodes this season. This one just lacked more obvious punches and hooks.

  157. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:48 am | Permalink

    This woman loved the episode enough to watch twice, and found much to pause and rewind and watch “just this bit again” several times! So for those of you that didn’t appreciate it, a woman feels truly sorry for you and your lack of appreciation. Life must be a huge disappointment for you. : — (

    Lolz!!!

  158. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:50 am | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Haha, just realized they probably saved FX monies by establishing Rickon and the direwolves like to wander off a lot earlier in the season.

  159. easteros bunny
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:54 am | Permalink

    Dear HBO (admit it you read the fan stuff)

    I am quite sick with the amount of sex and nudity involved, there was no need to cut to a overhead shot of robb starks wifes ass. There was no need for the scene with theon with those two girls to drag on for so so…so..so long!

    The GRRM penned episodes are normally a shot in the arm. Sadly this wasn’t the case with todays episode.

    I really wish they would re-think about the amount of nudity and sex, nearly every scene had a mention of sex. Did GRRM really write this?

    I watched the episode with my mum and she asked “is this show just about sex?” I then re told her the story of Neil Marshall pervert story. The fact that one of the coolest parts of the book was rushed due do the 50 mins of sex talk is disappointing.

  160. Annissa
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:54 am | Permalink

    Mark,

    If I recall correctly, Talisa (Jeyne) doesn’t go to Edmure’s wedding. She stays at Riverrun. I remember the neverending goodbye scene between her and Robb. She kept kissing and running after him. Catleyn was like ‘alright already, can we go now?’

  161. Eric Niewohner
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:55 am | Permalink

    A good episode but my least favorite of the season. With Martin writing it maybe my expectations were too high, I don’t know but I liked last week’s better and that held the distinction of being my least favorite of the season until this one, lol.

    Dany’ scene was fantastic and they are doing such a great job with the dragons. They freaked me out a bit and if I was that guy I would have certainly been scared. It looked like they wanted to rip his face off. However when they offer her all the gold and all the boats I was mentally screaming “Dany take the frigging boats and head to Westeros otherwise you will be stuck on the wrong side of the sea forever!”

    All the Jamie and Briene scenes were great and when she said “Ser Jamie” I got chocked up for a moment, very moving scene.

    My girlfriend was freaking out when the bear was after Jamie, she was screaming as Jamie was dangling there, lol. Give the bear an emmy he did a great job.

    Loved when Tywin walked up the steps of the throne you could see Joffrey’s fear grow. Tywin brings such energy and power to every scene, he is a ruthless, heartless man, but every time he is on the screen it pops.

  162. RamsaySnow
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:57 am | Permalink

    OK, it dawned to me only now.

    I knew that today’s Martin is a different Martin from 20 years ago. I’m not saying he has dementia, but he’s a bit dumbed down (I’m not sure if this is the right English word), he doesn’t have the creative juices he had. Just compare ADWD with ASOS, those books were not written by the same person, the last one was written by UnMartin, by a zombie Martin. I don’t need to go into details, those details were already discussed again and again. And again.

    UnMartin, nothing new. A blogger, not a writer. A blabber, not a talker. A scribbler, not a thinker. But that’s new:

    In the first 15 minutes practically all the scenes are new, Tormund-Jon, Orell-Ygritte, Robb-Talisa, Sansa-Marg, what’s wrong with the blabber who added so many new scenes. Was the original material not good enough? Had he to rewrite everything? Oh, my good, the zombie version thinks he’s better than original. Sancta simplicitas! Oh, the undrying well of stupidy!

  163. Krats
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:58 am | Permalink

    I wished the bear scene had a little more screen time. I really wanted to see Brienne bite Locke’s ear off as she did with Vargo Hoat, or at least have Jaime throw him into the pit.

  164. LordDavos12
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:01 am | Permalink

    Annissa:
    Mark,

    If I recall correctly, Talisa (Jeyne) doesn’t go to Edmure’s wedding.She stays at Riverrun.I remember the neverending goodbye scene between her and Robb.She kept kissing and running after him.Catleyn was like ‘alright already, can we go now?’

    As mentioned earlier, there’s a screenshot from one of the season 3 trailers that shows Talisa at Robb’s side during the RW.

  165. The Purist
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:01 am | Permalink

    For once in a long while, I found an episode of GoT to be great. If there’s any flaws from this episode, the fault should go to Tweedle Dee & Tweedle Dum for putting GRRM in that spot. I wouldn’t be surprise from anyone who are criticizing this episode are D&D apologists who think that the two can do a better job writing the series without following GRRM’s books. How sad they are. I liked the episode, but it’s the weakest episode George had written for the show, so I’ll give it my lowest rating that I’ve given a GRRM’s episode, a 9.5 out of 10. Okay, it’s more like a 9.75 out of 10. That’s right, you D&D apologists, I can feel your hate.

    RamsaySnow:
    OK, it dawned to me only now.

    I knew that today’s Martin is a different Martin from 20 years ago. I’m not saying he has dementia, but he’s a bit dumbed down (I’m not sure if this is the right English word), he doesn’t have the creative juices he had. Just compare ADWD with ASOS, those books were not written by the same person, the last one was written by UnMartin, by a zombie Martin. I don’t need to go into details, those details were already discussed again and again. And again.

    UnMartin, nothing new. A blogger, not a writer. A blabber, not a talker. A scribbler,not a thinker. But that’s new:

    Let me guess, you praise D&D to be good writers? Ha! If anyone thinks that see how terrible writers they are before GoT. Turds like Troy and the Wolverine movie didn’t exactly got people excited. The terrible duo aren’t good enough to polish George’s boots.

  166. Icebird
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:08 am | Permalink

    Did anyone else think of the Castle Anthrax from Monty Python & The Holy Grail during Theon’s scene? (“Yes, you will give us all a good spanking!”) I thought it was funny. Hoping that the Theon plotline pays off soon. I like what’s going on with Theon this season though. I think it’s important because The Bastard of Bolton’s cruelty will tie into Roose Bolton’s betrayal at the Red Wedding. Robb might even find out about what the Bastard did to Winterfell before he dies.

    I’ll disagree with Winter on this recap. Loved the episode, 5/5. (I gave last week’s a 4) I think it was better than last week and among the better episodes so far this season. I liked Osha’s backstory, especially considering I don’t think her backstory is in the books.

    The Robb and Talisa scene was fantastic. It was beautifully done, perfect. I cried a little when Talisa told Robb about her pregnancy. I don’t buy into the whole Talisa is a spy theory. I want their relationship to be just as it seems; a loving relationship. It’s bad enough that Robb is betrayed by the Karstark’s, Frey’s, and Bolton’s; why can’t he have something great before he dies? Since she’s apparently going to the Twins with Robb, she’ll either die with him or the Blackfish will save her. My bet is on her death to make the RW all the more tragic.

    If I recall from the books, it was just a small mention in AF4C, but I believe the Lannisters/Westerlings force Jeyne to drink the moon tea. So yes, Jeyne was pregnant in the books but there’s no heir for Robb unless I’m wrong.

    The bearpit scene thoroughly kicked ass. I also really wanted to see Jamie through Locke into the pit but realistically it might have meant Locke’s men fighting the men with Jamie or killing the bear to save Locke. Maybe we’ll get a satisfying revenge kill later in another season.

    I’m really hoping we see Queenscrown next week. Bran & crew arrive, followed shortly later by Jon & the Wildlings. Episode ends with Jon taking his chance to return to the wall?

    Maybe we’ll see Dany’s battle for Yunkai next week? I think we’ll at least meet Mero and Daario and see Daario’s betrayal.

    I agree with all of you who are hoping for Robb’s conversation with Catelyn about legitimatizing Jon Snow and naming him his heir. We still have episode 8 and maybe the beginning of ep. 9 for that to happen.

    Looks like we’ll finally see Sansa’s wedding, (expected it tonight – they’re drawing that out a bit too much), and Sam The Slayer (YES!) next week.

  167. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:09 am | Permalink

    easteros bunny: I am quite sick with the amount of sex and nudity involved, there was no need to cut to a overhead shot of robb starks wifes ass.

    I beg to differ. I really, really beg to differ.

  168. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:13 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    I agree about Osha’s monologue. I thought it was the best part of any Bran scene this year. It sets up everything to come this season, and beyond really.

    I also agree about it being a meaty episode. To continue with your analogy… It was meaty, but not vey flavorful. At times even distasteful!

    I think the episode may have worked better if it had a Sam the Slayer scene directly after Osha gave her speech about how she lost her man to the wights. It would have been a perfect connecting theme and it would been a perfect build up scene for the bear pit scene.

  169. Utiz4321
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:13 am | Permalink

    GoT,

    Robb stark is not a dumb charecter. He makes two mistakes, one is reasonable the other can be chalked up to a youthful folly. (Karstark’s execution wasn’t a mistake in my opinion. He needed to restore order and faith in his army, after, for obvious reasons, letting his mom off for freeing te kingslayer if he let karstark off he very well could have lost control of his entirer army. His choice was alienate the karstark or lose control of his army and e pick the right one). Unfortunately he doesn’t have room to make mistakes and that is where we find him. But to call him dumb is a miss reading in the extreme. He managed to put this army together, assert control over it (the great Jon scene) and proceeded to whip Tywin lannister(the most capible man in the seven kingdoms) in the field. Some of his problems are not in his control, the vale staying out of the fight for one (his crazy aunt is responsible here) and renly’s death (Caitlyn pretty much had a deal on the table ) for another. Highgarden goes over to the lannister as a result of renly’s death and that hurts his cause. He has made to awful blunders but that shouldn’t take away from his successes.

  170. RamsaySnow
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:17 am | Permalink

    The Purist,

    I like you man. I wish we two could be friends. I like your passion. I adore your devotion. I respect your loyalty. But most of all, I like YOU.

  171. Summer Is Coming
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:18 am | Permalink

    The episode was great!
    North: Yes, Jon’s story is finally catching up. it was very very well written: “All of us!” loved it!
    The Bran&co scene was good also. it is another step towards Osha departing with Rickon.
    Theon.. painful scene. but they must show his road towards becoming Reek.

    King’s Landing: Margaery&Sansa – loved it! Natalie Dormer is fantastic.. the way she implied her… experience. I also like to believe Sansa is just naive, and not stupid.
    Mel&Gendry – I got chills! really! Your father’s house! … just awesome.
    Tyrion&Shae – Sibel is finally showing us her true talent… “I am Shae, the funny whore” My favourite Shae scene! Lots of foreshadowing also…
    Tywin & Joff – I grinned the entire scene! two of the best actors in the show: a veteran and rising star.
    No Cersei this episode…. finally!

    Riverlands: Robb&Talisa – beautifully acted, and their sex scene was so intimate and beautiful, that it didn’t bother the flow of their story. but I do wonder like everyone else where this ‘Talisa is pregnant’ story is going! very exciting. Oh, and what on earth writers?? catelyn barely had any lines this season!! it’s painful!

    Arya – well, it’s old news that Maisie is great so let’s wait for next week, since from the promo we are in for a treat in Arya&Hound interactions! I wonder if we will see Thoros&Beric until the finale…

    Jaime&Brienne – for real people, when Brienne said Ser Jaime, and they cut to NCW face, I burst into tears… never happened I swear! Powerful Emmy-worthy scene to both of them! Hope NCW wins, he was fantastic this season! The bear scene could have been longer, but anyways, we got the longest episode this season yet!

    Essos in that scene, when the slaver enters the tent, Dany looks epic, from her dress and posture, her servants and advisors, to her THREE dragons! OMG, what a moment! I just wish, and it is my heart’s desire that I could hear the dragons’s names…

    I loved the episode, and I can’t really think of a “bad” thing about it… This was one of the most organic episodes, and one where the acting was almost flawless!

  172. Bean
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:19 am | Permalink

    A pretty weak episode… the bear scene should have been viscerally exciting, but the CGI bear or whatever it was made for a rather boring and awkward rescue scene, with dialogues interspersed in a fairly un-fluid way to help explain (again) the motivation for Jaime’s guards.

    Regardless of what you think of Theon’s story this season, the hbo-style ridicu-sex was a big letdown. Total waste of screen time. I don’t mind that they threw in a scene to show he was gelded. I hate that hbo’s crammed-in whore-scenes are so rote, predictable, trite, and frankly embarrassing as a fan of the show.

    In contrast, Rob and Talisa was actually a nice scene, and I have mild hopes that the show was finally turning a corner to show some actual non-idiotic sexuality in the show. bleh.

    Other than that, what all happened? Tywin was cool, as always. The additional exploration of the wildlings was also cool. Not so much the stupid romantic jealousy sub-plot they seem to be adding with the warg vs Jon.

    Tyrion-Shae…. moved the plot forward. neither great nor all that bad. same with Osha and with Gendry.

    Dany’s scenes were interesting – they might have developed a bit more the implications of her extremely ambitious philosophy towards saving slaves. No doubt they will explore it more later, but I’d have liked to see a little more illustration of the grey areas in her decision making priorities so as to add more interest to the scenes.

  173. charles
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:32 am | Permalink

    Bean,

    except that was a real bear, not CGI.

  174. Summer Is Coming
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:40 am | Permalink

    Oh I found the one “bad” thing about the episode:
    the two girls with Theon… not that they were naked, or so, but because I had high hopes for the blonde actress to be Val… bummer!

    Oh and also… I came to believe that LF was to arrive at the Eyrie this episode … we do have an Eyrie scene this season right? next episode I wonder? or in the finale?

  175. Icebird
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:43 am | Permalink

    The book purists kinda make me sad. I’ve read the books and love them but it’s unrealistic to expect a perfect adaption. I don’t think they could do a perfect show with 20 hours a season. Check out that podcast WIC posted a few days ago from the non-book reader; it’ll give you some perspective on how complicated this series is for people who haven’t read the books.

    D&D, Bryan Cogman, and GRRM are giving us nothing short of a masterpiece. Certainly there’s a flaw here & there but I can forgive those because I’ve never seen better TV; and most movies can’t live up to this either.

  176. Bean
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:44 am | Permalink

    charles,

    that just makes it worse… like I said, whatever they did, wasn’t all that exciting.

  177. Summer Is Coming
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:46 am | Permalink

    And the promo for “Second Sons” is exciting!! Daario, a wedding, a slayer and the leeching are coming! Stannis and Davos are returning! Episode 8 will be Davos’s 3rd episode this season…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10E_Mx-MGSM

  178. bluemeanies
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:51 am | Permalink

    Why, exactly, didn’t they include the Tyrion/Sansa wedding this episode? We’ve spent a lot of our King’s Landing time building up to it and delaying it takes away some of the horror show.

    Also, the Gendry/Edric combination has really delayed [spoiler]Mellisandre’s leech magic (questionable if it actually contributed but it’s apparent success is important)[/spoiler], which I assume will happen next episode or cut it real close in ep 9. Does this mean we are moving[spoiler] Balon’s death til after Robb’s so they can cold open with it in 4.01? That might actually be a good choice, especially if the Kingsmoot is part of season 4 [/spoiler].

  179. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:52 am | Permalink

    Summer Is Coming,

    I have suspicions that this episode was suppose to have an Eyrie scene with Littefinger that GRRM wrote, but it was removed to make room for the bear pit scene.

  180. GeekFurious
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:58 am | Permalink

    The only thing that was disappointing to me was the bear sequence. I feel the show, even when it makes changes from the books, tends to emphasize the big scenes well. This time around, it felt off. Like it needed more time devoted to it for the proper impact.

    A non-show annoyance is with people who call set-piece episodes “delaying” or “stalling” elements. It is very important that we give breath to the big moments coming up by slowing things down, to pay attention to the characters and their thoughts. Because when major things happen to them, we should care. Not just check scenes off from the books we’ve been waiting to see.

  181. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:58 am | Permalink

    bluemeanies,

    I forget what episode the rumors early in the seaon said Tyrion’s wedding would be in, Wasn’t it Episode 3.08? I forget….

    I’m interested to see how they deal with Balon also. When I read the books I thought it was a Faceless Man that killed him, not a shadowbaby. I have read theories on both sides ad now I am not as convinced it was a FM I guess…..

    Either way like you said, it might be smart to push it back to the beginning of next season so there is a nice beginning point for the Iron Island arc.

  182. bluemeanies
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:07 am | Permalink

    Darquemode,

    No, I think it is a FM to. Balon’s death ties to the Dragonstone plotline in that they sacrifice three leeches to the fire, one for each of the three usurpers. Mel wants to burn the bastard boy, but Davos insists that they can’t do it until the leech magic comes true (and smuggle Edric the hell out of there once word of Joffrey arrives). Balon has to die, so they are unlikely to write him out, but the leeches should come first and its gettting tight with Robb

  183. eriktopham
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:09 am | Permalink

    Great episode. Virtually every scene did a good job of either developing a character or moving forward one of the plotlines.

    Best Jon scenes we’ve seen since maybe season 1. I felt like Kit Harrington grew up 5 years during his “six times in the last thousand years” speech. Really makes me eager to see him become Lord Commander.

    Amazing stuff from Brienne and Jaime too. The shot of Gwendoline holding her wood sword vs the bear, covered in blood, not an ounce of fear – awesome. And the goodbye scene where she demonstrates she really is ready to die as part of her vow to Cat Stark is amazing adaptation work. I really hope Gwen ends up playing a Jedi or Sith in the upcoming Star Wars sequels. I’d love to see Brienne of Hoth wielding a double bladed lightsaber.

    And how great was Locke’s line “go buy yourself a golden hand and fuck yourself with it”? The writers are constantly winking at book readers and it’s neat to see.

    Dany was outstanding. I liked that Barristan clumsily says “The Yunkish” while the Yunkai emissary calls them Yunkai’ee (or whatever). Osha’s speech did a good job of not only setting up future episodes, but in reminding the audience where Bran and Co. are going and why (a very wise move, especially since Bill Simmons talked on his podcast last week about being totally lost regarding “the kids in the north on their vision quest”).

    I totally think Talissa is a “spy” (or was at first) and will be “Jeyne” in the future. I think she really did grow to love Robb and has no idea she’s going to be responsible for his death (why would Tywinn tell his spy his master plan?). She’ll end up given to Ramsay, and he’ll get to play games with her next season while Reek cowers in the corner watching in terror. Ramsay will also get to play the “remember your name” game with Jeyne/Talissa, and Theon will have plenty of opportunities to tell her “my name is Reek, rhymes with meek, be sure to remember your name” etc. This not only gives convenient ways to handle exposition, it will strengthen Theon’s arc even more and make the Jeyne arc even more powerful. Their escape from Winterfell in season 6/7 will have people cheering. I haven’t decided yet if Talissa is actually pregnant or not, but I agree with the earlier poster who said there are a few options for both her and the Blackfish and we’ll find out in ep 9.

    Also, how amazing a job are they doing in not tipping off the Red Wedding, while still keeping the audience primed for it? The use of the Rains of Castamere tonight was INSPIRED. People will recognize the music in the background at some point in the RW scene just before it all goes down and everyone is just going to shat themselves.

    Bravo Dave, Dan, BCogs, and everyone. Really masterfully done as always.

  184. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:14 am | Permalink

    Darquemode,

    I’m positive it’ll happen, though. Not just the dagger confirm, but you clearly see his foe in the trailers. :]

    Seriously, that Theon scene. I’ve more or less appreciated each one of his scenes until now. Alfie and Iwan are masterful, but I got a sexed up vibe in this last one. It’s the first time I’ve really felt this way about any nude scene in the show, even the past offenders people like to bring up.

    A lot of scenes worked well enough individually, but the episode as a whole didn’t come together as well as the others have. Cogman’s interview on GOO did inform us that any thematic unity in this or that episode is usually a happy accident of sorts.

  185. eriktopham
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:21 am | Permalink

    Also: Was tonight was the first time we’ve ever heard NCW referred to as “Ser Jaime”? Davos’ son referred to him as “Ser Jaime Lannister” when reading the letter, but Stannis is quick to make sure to add “The Kingslayer”. Ned Stark refers to him as Jaime at least once (when talking to Cersei in the garden), and King Robert spat out the occasional sarcastic “Jaaaaaaaime Lannister” (Gods love Mark Addy), and Cercei/Tyrion/Tywinn all call him Jaime, but I’d bet 5 gold dragons tonight is the only time in the series that anyone has ever called him “Ser Jaime”. Always Kingslayer or maybe just Jaime instead.

    And if I’m right, another 5 dragons says we’ll never hear it again.

    They really do write the heck out of this show.

  186. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:26 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    I never doubted it would happen honestly. I assumed they would make the climax of Samwell’s season arc and it would in one of the last episodes.

    Just like I figured the bear pit would be Jaime and Brienne’s arc finale and it would be in one of the last 2 or 3 episodes too. I was a bit surprised when the episode title changed to Bear and the Maiden Fair, but of course then I expected the scene to be tonight.

  187. magnuskn
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:27 am | Permalink

    I found the scene with Robb and Talisa to be full of innuendo which could or could not become fact. There’s a lot of teasing and subtlety here, which could come to nothing or could be very significant.

    The rest of the episode was riveting, too, outside of Yet Another Theon Torture Scene, of which we had way too many already.

  188. Uncle B
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:30 am | Permalink

    The episode was too quiet but I enjoyed all the little moments.

    Tywin kicks ass. The song at the end gave me goose bumps.

  189. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:33 am | Permalink

    eriktopham,

    That was one of my two favorite moments of the episode!
    Bienne calling him “Ser Jaime” and the chat between Qyburn and Jaime.

    Qyburn asked Jaime, “And how many lives have you saved?”
    So smug was Qyburn until…
    Jaime responded, “Half a million. The population of Kings Landing.”

    That entire scene was sheer brilliance!

  190. Lou Reed
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:42 am | Permalink

    They could either find a reason for Blackfish to return to Riverrun, or they could make some magnificent escape scene, where he jumps from a tower and swims underwater to escape. To show why he is called the blackfish.

  191. eriktopham
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:44 am | Permalink

    Darquemode,

    I thought the whole episode was very strong. People saying it was “slow” or “badly written” or whatever honestly baffle me. People forget how much better GoT is than anything else on TV right now, with the possible exception of Breaking Bad.

    Every season GoT reminds me more and more of The Wire (a show D&D credit constantly when talking about world building and large casts). You often didn’t even really get a whiff of the “main plot” for a season of the Wire until several episodes in, and many of the eps paid far more service to developing the characters than advancing an “A to B to C to D” simple plotline. That is also why most right thinking people consider The Wire the finest show ever on TV.

    As smooth Lester Freeman would remind us: “All the pieces matter.”

  192. armsbendback
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:49 am | Permalink

    To the people who question the sex in the Theon scene:

    Its not just about Theon getting gelded. It’s about a systemic and continual toying with even the tiniest notions of hope or humanity in Theon, to get him to the point where he’s not just harmed, not just damaged, not just downtrodden, but completely broken to the point where he becomes sub human, submissive, and delusional about his own identity and maintaining a fantasy state of mind as a means of survival in the constant company and threat of a madman.

    So just establishing that he’s been tortured once or twice is not enough to make you understand the journey that make Reek subhuman later in the story.

    -He has to be tortured….and then given the hope of a boy who might sympathize with him
    -Tortured some more and than given the hope that this boy is somehow working under the orders of Iron Islanders/his sister and will help him escape
    -Let go and put off on a horse only to be tracked down and beaten
    -Only to have his “ally” show up and rescue, providing that important glimmer of hope again
    -which gets even bigger as he is “returned” to an Iron Island stronghold, at least from what the boy tells him. To the point where he finally breaks down and tells the boy his evolving thoughts on his “true” family and his only “true” father
    -only to find himself right back where he started and that his “ally” that “boy”, was his tormentor all along.
    -now hope is at a minimum and psychological warfare continues. perhaps if he can just guess who the “boy” is affiliated with he can be spared or even have an understanding of how to reason or “negotiate” with him – nope, mindf*cked again
    -so to tonights scene: the girls accomplish two things. they show how truly terrified and warped theon is already becoming because he has zero interest at all in either of them for the first few minutes. only after he is mounted does he begin to lose a tiny percentage of fear and let(although its debatable if thats even a choice) his body enjoy the long far away feelings and memory of what sex/pleasure is, providing for a few cloudy seconds another form(mental) of “hope” or “escape” only to have the bugle blowing and his tormentor appear once more, to rid him of what he had forgotten he had until just brief moments before.

    So if you don’t like the nudity or were embarrassed because you watched it with your mom, sorry. but its absolutely true to the character and true to the books. and necessary to be established if the Theon of aDWD is to effectively have an impact in his role. if you thinks his scenes are a waste or taking up valuable plot time now, imagine how much angrier you’d be in future seasons if they had to shows flashbacks(on top of the present day scenes in those seasons) establishing just why theon/reek was the way he was…..

  193. novichaso
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:53 am | Permalink

    I don’t know if anybody agrees with me… but I didn’t see anything wrong with today’s episode… lots of stuff happened and the last 3 episodes are gonna be EPIC!!
    I felt this episode lasted longer!

    Very well written by GRRM, and also, I don’t understand why everybody complains about watching theon and ramsay scenes… they are both very good actors and they play their part as book-Theon and book-Ramsay perfectly! I love those scenes! and the Bear Pit! Really? Slow episode? Dany the Conqueror? Dull? I think that by the end of this season… both non-readers and readers will be getting their minds blown!!

  194. novichaso
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:01 am | Permalink

    armsbendback,

    You are absolutely right… they are introducing Ramsay to the show! He’s more than a madman… he is a professional in matters of not only physical torturing, but psychological too!

    This is all part of what he does! In the books, there are many situation far worst than this glimpse we got today! I can point them out anytime!

    We shouldn’t forget that it’s GRRM himself who is writing this episode, and that alone justifies anything we saw today in the show.

  195. Joh
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:04 am | Permalink

    I liked this episode. 8/10!

    The slow, character-development chapters in the books were generally my favorites – I was surprised to discover that I enjoyed the slow, character-development episodes of the show as well.

    No desire to discuss the differences and new material. They are separate entities – I watch the show for the show and read the books for the books and I am so tired of one being judged on another.

    I actually liked the Talisa/Robb and Tyrion/Shae scenes.

    The Shae scenes, especially, really show how naive Tyrion can be sometimes, and exactly what kind of bleak future Shae is facing with him. It is almost a parallel to Sansa, who is having her dreams of a fairytale ending with Loras shattered.
    Now Tyrion is having his illusions shattered as well.

    As for the Talisa scenes, well, it was just nice to see something of Robb and Talisa’s marriage and personal life. Much of their relationship is still a mystery, but it was nice to see how smitten Robb is and how much he wants to do the right thing by his family, and also to see Talisa teaching him Valyrian and writing letters. The little details just helped to make the characters more interesting.

    It was nice to see Dany stepping into her role as conqueror – we see now it is not just about retaking her title and returning to her homeland, it is about sacking cities and forcing her will on other people, through fear and intimidation, fire and blood. She accepts this without hesitation, and makes her less sympathetic and more of an antihero.

    Not to mention, Kristian Nairn finally gets the best line in the whole episode.

    Honestly…almost the whole episode worked for me.

    Almost.

    The Theon plotline is hard to watch. I have faith in the writers and directors that these storylines will play out into something greater over time, but right now, without context, the Theon scenes come dangerous close to being the kind of “torture/gore porn” that has been a staple on True Blood. On True Blood, it rarely has relevance to plot – it is just there for shock value and titillation.

    Luckily, this is GoT, so I can assume that Theon’s ordeal will lead to character development and somehow fits into the great web of intrigue, however the writers decide to spin it.

    Tormund’s speech about pleasing the ladies seemed like a total nonsequitor, and lacked a proper punchline. Like…oh. Tormund is just walking around handing out Cosmo sex tips.
    “Twelve New Techniques That Will Take Your Wildling Spearwife Beyond the Wall!”
    Alright, then. Har!

    And lastly, I really couldn’t watch the Bear Pit scene without imagining it redone with the Auto-tune modded bears from Skyrim singing

    “I’m a bear. Rawr. I’m gonna get you. Rawr.”

    But really, that just means that there is something wrong with the way my mind works, and has noting to do with the production quality of the show. ; )

  196. novichaso
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:08 am | Permalink

    eriktopham,

    I’ll take that bet of those 5 golden dragons … I’m sure we will hear “Ser Jaime” again… from Brienne… again

  197. eriktopham
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:13 am | Permalink

    novichaso,

    You *might* get it from her again, but if you do it’ll only be once, as he gives her Oathkeeper/sends her off on her new quest”.

    But I still like my odds. I say never again.

  198. Daniel
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:15 am | Permalink

    The Purist,

    I’m hoping this is an example of Poe’s law…

  199. Siobhán Mooney
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:23 am | Permalink

    DjWeideman:
    Ryan,

    P.S. Is it just me, or did the scene with Jamie and the Maester look like it was shot at the same location where Ned’s execution of the Night’s Watch deserter took place?

    It’s not just you! For the first time, a location made me double-take. I think it’s because we just had two scenes in the North, south of the Wall, with Jon and Bran, and when it swapped to Jaime it looked like he was in the same kind of area.

    I really, really enjoyed this episode. I didn’t check the time even once before it was over – I couldn’t believe that time flew so quickly!

    When Sansa and Margaery were talking, and Marge said that her child by Tyrion could be Lord of the North and Casterly Rock, I felt for a second that Sansa would have been thinking “Only if my eldest brother dies first, which I would never want.” But of course she doesn’t say that to people in King’s Landing; she’s the “I have the traitor’s blood” little bird, parroting pretty lies to keep herself alive. I guess I just thought that maybe with Marge she would have hesitated a sec before trotting out the lie. If she didn’t, maybe she wasn’t thinking about Robb at all but only how horrible it is for her to marry a dwarf. I dunno. The scene felt slightly off for me, not because Sophie or Natalie were anything less than excellent (they’re fab!), but because it felt a bit surprising for me that Margaery’s stance on the whole thing is limited to talking Sansa into liking marrying Tyrion, seemingly by appealing to a side of life that Sansa is very naive about. Maybe I just miss how genuinely sad Margaery seemed when Sansa was married. Making the wedding a total surprise for Sansa in the books was so cruel yet so delicious in terms of drama and I guess I feel that both her reaction and Marge’s is a little bit… not what I’d expect now that things are different. Not necessarily bad, but I’m taking a while to adjust!

    Really loved Dany’s scene with the Yunkish ambassador. She looked more gorgeously majestic than she’s ever been. That dress! That confidence! Those dragons!

    I also think that all the scenes with Jon, Ygritte and Orell were great. In particular, I think that the scene where Jon tells Ygritte of failed wildling campaigns of the past and why they won’t succeed this time showed Jon at his best, as an intelligent and loyal young man who is torn apart by his feelings and trying to do the best by his oath and by the woman he loves.

    Bear scene was good but I honestly preferred the small farewell scene earlier between Jaime and Brienne, where she charged him to fulfil her vow. In that moment, she showed him her honour more purely and completely than ever before. In my opinion, nothing better explains his reasons for going back to Harrenhal to help her. I liked how seriously she took the oath and how solemn Jaime was when he promised to fulfil it. This sets up future material for them brilliantly.

    Am a little confused by the scene with Tyrion and Shae; the Shae in this scene seemed a little closer to the one in the books but not excessively (she wasn’t out of character). I guess she can feel upset both for her own sake and Sansa’s. But this has been a tough season for Tyrion. He’s essentially been emasculated. We’ve seen only one(?) scene where he was acting as master of coin, and that involved him seeming to lose a battle of wits with Olenna (who is wonderful, don’t get me wrong). I’d like to see more of him making the role his own and doing what he can with it. Otherwise why is he sticking around instead of running away with Shae? I mean he had a point when he asked what he’d do if they ran away – “juggle” seemed like a bitter reference to the limited options of dwarves – but this was in the same scene where he gave Shae a necklace that could buy a ship. If he was going to leave, he could take wealth with him. Of course Tywin might track him down (having waaaay more gold to do so than Tyrion would have to evade those seeking him), but I think we know a thing or two from the books about how hard it is to find the right dwarf after you put a bounty on his head. Of course, Tyrion doesn’t know this.

    Just to hop back to the Tyrion-Sansa marriage for a bit, why wasn’t he given the “option” to have another Lannister marry her if he preferred? To my mind, that was the factor from the books that made me not blame him for marrying her: he knew that if he didn’t, another Lannister might not treat her as well. But maybe he’ll make this offer next episode, on his own initiative rather than because Twyin gave him the option? I wouldn’t bet on it, though. It’s unfortunate because, frankly, it makes him seem like he’s showing much less reluctance than he did in the books. And yes, I do remember him thinking of how beautiful and sweet-smelling Sansa is in the books when the offer comes up, but that was partially in the context of thinking that such a girl would hate marrying him.

    Honestly liked pretty much everything. Anything that I blather on and on about is not hated by me, just intriguing and seen as worthy of comment. It was a great episode.

  200. Kellie
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:25 am | Permalink

    Arthur,

    I completely missed the nipple. Must have been looking at her face when she was talking ;)

  201. Brock Russell
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:27 am | Permalink

    I really have a feeling like “Myranda,” played by Charlotte Hope, will turn out to be a much bigger thing. They casted her pretty early on and gave her a name, and for that to happen to a girl who only gets one scene as a trolling minx is hard to believe. I think she will be the fake Arya. It adds a nice dynamic between Theon and her now, and Theon and her later on.

    I also have a feeling like the blonde trolling vixen, “Violet,” played by Stephanie Blacker (again with the names) will be the girl that tries to run away with Theon, presumably, at the end of this season (ep. 10, perhaps…) I’m thinking Theon’s story will end with Violet helping him run away only for them to be hunted down by Ramsay and his dogs. Violet will die, and the audience will be led on to believe that Theon dies as well (similar to his story in CoK) Therefore, Alfie Allen can sit out a year, and return (hopefully) in season 5 as a full-blown Reek.

    By the way, not sure if anyone else has posted a similar prediction, so sorry if that happened…

  202. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:31 am | Permalink

    eriktopham,

    I slower episodes and character building usually, but I thought this was just an OK episode honestly.

    - Great Tywin as always.
    - Best Jon/ Ygritte scenes of the season, maybe the series for Jon.
    -Great Jon and Tormund scens.
    - Strong Jaime scenes for the most part, but while I thought the bear pit fight itself was good, the before ad after left me wanting.
    - Strong Dany scene.
    - Tyrion and Bronn scene that was pretty good.

    - Gendry/ Mel scene that was OK.
    - Arya with BWoB scene that was good.
    - Arya escape scene was lackluster to me.
    - Sansa/ Margaery scene that was lackluster
    - Orell and Ygritte scene was lackluster to me.

    - Needed Tyrion/ Shae scene which did not move me. Nice chain though.
    - Needed Bran and groupies scene which did not move me.
    - Needed Robb/ Talisa scene which did not move me.
    - Needed Robb’s counsel scene that did not move me.
    - Unneeded Theon scene that bored me.

    So I guess that basically breaks down to 1/3 great to good scenes, 1/3 good to OK scenes, and 1/3 less than OK scenes. That is by far the worst great-to-average and great-to-lackluster scene ratio of the series IMO.

    I love The Wire and do see similarities in character building, story building and just overall brilliant quality etc…. I just thought this was a lackluster episode that felt off. It did not build to the bear pit scene. That scene felt added haphazardly or last minute.

  203. JamesL
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:33 am | Permalink

    easteros bunny,

    Shut up, theres barely been any sex in this season. They already toned it down a bunch because prudes like you always complaining about it.

  204. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:34 am | Permalink

    Brock Russell,

    I like the theories and hope it happens like that!
    After this season I could do without Theon for 10 episodes.

  205. Chris Umber
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:35 am | Permalink

    Notice how they changed Jaime’s line? Not sending Robb JAMIES regards, but sending LANNISTER regards. I’m guessing they really dont wont the RW being linked to Jaime in the viewers eyes. He’s a good boy now, not a baddie

  206. novichaso
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:40 am | Permalink

    Brock Russell: I also have a feeling like the blonde trolling vixen, “Violet,” played by Stephanie Blacker (again with the names) will be the girl that tries to run away with Theon, presumably, at the end of this season (ep. 10, perhaps…) I’m thinking Theon’s story will end with Violet helping him run away only for them to be hunted down by Ramsay and his dogs. Violet will die, and the audience will be led on to believe that Theon dies as well (similar to his story in CoK) Therefore, Alfie Allen can sit out a year, and return (hopefully) in season 5 as a full-blown Reek.

    I like that!

  207. eriktopham
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:57 am | Permalink

    Siobhán Mooney,

    You’re absolutely right about the Brienne/Jaime goodbye scene. Really great work by both of them. Gwen’s best work since her vow to Cat in S2, and it would be Jaime’s best this season if not for his Emmy submission bath scene.

    As for Tyrion, I think his motivation is he thinks he’s playing the long game. Bronn is right, if he plays the game right, he could be the father of the second most powerful man in the kingdoms one day. He can rule the north and his birthright, Casterly Rock, through his son. All while “doing right” by both Shae and Sansa. Someone else said he’s naive, and he is. He’s buying into the easiest self delusion, the kind that starts with noble intentions.

    Darquemode – Everyone’s entitled to their personal estimation of quality, and you can certainly argue that this is amongst GoT’s “worst” eps (I would disagree, go watch some of the early S1 eps. They plod along. I wasn’t hooked until Viserys got his crown), but I think my overarching point is that even if this is the worst GoT ep EVAR it is still heads and tails above anything else on TV now. There are maybe half a dozen shows in history that are in GoT’s league. Tom Brady may have a “bad” game now and then, but a bad game for him is “only” a couple hundred yards and one TD, and thats still pretty damn good.

    I will give you that the “Robb’s Council” scene could have been better, but I hope we’ll get some good stuff with him and Cat over the next couple weeks. Michelle Fairley always kills it and I fully expect them to give us some quality time between them in the build-up to the RW (ie: Jon as heir).

  208. Nanuk
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:07 am | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard,

    Are you saying that “he wanted to fuck her” implies he’s fully equiped to do so? Castration will shut off sex drive if the gonads are taken, but he could have fully functional testicles and no penis, a more cruel and ramseyesque way of gelding someone (want but can’t).

    If you’re talking of the “jerked to his feet”, to jerk is a polysemic word.. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/jerk

  209. Strepsi
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:23 am | Permalink

    I liked this episode a lot, but I agree about the pace — we actually have to have a wedding in EACH of the last three episodes!!! Maybe that’s the plan, or the finale with all three intercut?

    I liked in the book how Tyrion thought he was getting out of it and *boom* he was married to Sansa. Think they could have done that, her talk with Margaery about consummation could have even been after the wedding without changing a thing.

  210. Lou Reed
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:27 am | Permalink

    Spoiler alert!

    Could it be Tyrions wedding in next episode? And then Edmure and Joffreys wedding side by side in episode 9 ?

    Then we’d have Melisandre doing her leeches thing on Gendry in Episode 8, and cursing Joffrey and Robb to die. And then episode nine, we’d have the dramatic weddings side by side.

    And Jamie shows up in Kings Landing in episode 10, with Sansa gone.

    I always thought Joffreys wedding would be in season 4, since Tyrion had to meet Oberyn before he got arrested. But that isnt strictly necessary, or they could just let it pass a few episodes into season 4, before Tyrion is actually arrested.

    But now with Jamie so close to Kings Landing, and knowing Sansa must be gone before they arrive, I see no other way than having Joffreys wedding really soon. Plus with Melisandre cursing them both, I guess it’d be too obvious for everyone that Joffrey was screwed, after seeing Edmures wedding.

  211. MyBFFTheHound
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    I get that they have a limited amount of locations to shoot at, but how can the climate between “on the road from Harrenhal -> KL” be so different from KL itself?

    Storm’s End must be paradise then, it’s as far south from KL as KL is from Harrenhal.

  212. Lou Reed
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:36 am | Permalink

    After watching the preview of episode 8 (and a certain dagger), at least it seems we will soon have the first of the two mysteries from season 1 solved.

    Who sent an assassin after Bran, and who poisoned Jon Arryn.

  213. Turncloak
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:42 am | Permalink

    Check out the episode newbie comments on Hitfix and Avclub. Looks like we can say the Theon arc has been a big misfire/timewaster.

    Still loved the Jaime scenes. Though I’m tired of Bran sitting around doing nothing. We need to get his warg ass in Queenscrown already. Jesus

  214. barak
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    Wenchsaver,

    Mrs. H’ghar:
    This woman loved the episode enough to watch twice, and found much to pause and rewind and watch “just this bit again” several times! So for those of you that didn’t appreciate it, a woman feels truly sorry for you and your lack of appreciation. Life must be a huge disappointment for you.: — (

    Lolz!!!

    Hear, hear!

  215. Turncloak
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    Lou Reed,

    The dagger from the preview is Tyrion’s dagger. He does the same thing in the book when Joffrey insults him. We don’t learn about Joffrey’s involvement in Bran’s assassination attempt until the PW. I didn’t see Little finger or Lysa Arryn at all in the promo

  216. eriktopham
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    My guess is that we get both the Tully/Frey and Sansa/Tyrion weddings in the same ep, one toward the beginning one at the very end, if for no other reason than to further help obscure the RW.

    Red is the Lannister color, so if Tyrion’s wedding is the same week as the real Red Wedding, people might suspect that his is the “Red” wedding, directing attention away from Robb’s fate. My guess is #redwedding is going to trend all over twitter that week whether the show wants it to or not, so anything they can do to distract from that helps preserve the agonizing twist. Hell, if HBO can convince people that Tyrion’s is the “red” wedding, then they can even promote #redwedding through their own account.

  217. Mike Chair
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    Summer Is Coming: Margaery&Sansa – loved it! Natalie Dormer is fantastic.. the way she implied her… experience.

    “Did your mother teach you?” Hilarious. I imagine if one of Margaery’s lovers gets it right she shouts, “Highgarden!”

    I loved the ep. Wished I didn’t DVR it, but, what can I say, I’m a die hard Bs fan and last night it was hard.

  218. Blaat
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    That chain gives all those that were afraid TPTB would change Tyrion killing Shae, some food for thought.

    By the way it seems logical that Locke will replace Shagwell & company in Brienne her story.

  219. Siobhán Mooney
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    eriktopham:
    Siobhán Mooney,
    As for Tyrion, I think his motivation is he thinks he’s playing the long game. Bronn is right, if he plays the game right, he could be the father of the second most powerful man in the kingdoms one day. He can rule the north and his birthright, Casterly Rock, through his son. All while “doing right” by both Shae and Sansa. Someone else said he’s naive, and he is. He’s buying into the easiest self delusion, the kind that starts with noble intentions.

    Glad that you agree about Jaime and Brienne! Regarding Tyrion, I think you’re right to say that he’s operating under wishful thinking here. But this seems to just further showcase his emasculation. He hopes things will work out, but he doesn’t do anything to make that happen. In Seasons 1 and 2, he took initiate when the situations in which he found himself didn’t please him. He was an underdog at several points and came out on top because of his wits. I’m not saying that he should always come out on top. That would be boring. But I feel like it would be in-character for him to try. In this season he just seems to let things happen to him passively. I get that this is partially because he feels like a child when his father is around but at this point Tywin has been in the capital for a while. I would like Tyrion to stop treading water or at least try to make better use of the resources he has – not even necessarily to oppose his father but to carve out his own niche of real power for himself.

  220. A-Gone
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 7:42 am | Permalink
  221. Fabian Schneider
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    I liked the episode, despite it being a slower one and probably the least memorable in this season so far – but when I recognized the music at the end it really gave me chills.

  222. KG
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    Bean,

    Not too bright, are you?

  223. Lou Reed
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    Ahh, so the “I am no stranger to Valyrian steel” comment is not made until his own wedding? I was quite sure he said the words at Tyrions wedding, at the same time as the dagger into the table thing.

  224. blatz
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    Re: Osha’s Undead Encounter – It’s a setup for when Sam used the Dragonglass – It was a reminder that they can’t be killed with traditional weapons.

  225. Lou Reed
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    Summer Is Coming,

    If you read the books, you should know that Littlefinger has not really left for the Vale yet. He just managed to make every think he is gone. If you do not want to be a suspect of something, the best thing is make everyone believe you are far far away when it happens.

  226. The Purist
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    RamsaySnow: I like you man. I wish we two could be friends. I like your passion. I adore your devotion. I respect your loyalty. But most of all, I like YOU.

    You like me, huh? Prove it. *drops pants* Is this a boil or a mole on my thigh? I’m thinking of getting a doctor to check it out.
    Why is everyone looking at me funny?

    Daniel: I’m hoping this is an example of Poe’s law…

    Poe can suck my big fat one… whoever he is.

  227. Hawk
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    I enjoyed this episode, but the ending was a bit flat…not a very exciting sequence w/ the bear pit…it felt like the bear was, in fact, a trained bear (which of course it was) and I did not get the illusion that the bear was really out to get them…

    also, Theon is gelded in the books, but only after his member if flayed and Theon begs Ramsay to cut it off, which is how he loses all his digits…they are flayed, and he begs for them to be cut off…

  228. GG
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    Dexter,

    I believe I am speaking for myself.

    And if he is one of your favourite charscters, you can’t honestly tell me you’re enjoying watching him get torn apart episode after episode after episode, with no plot development whatsoever. There’s a reason this was left out of the book.

  229. GG
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    Utiz4321,

    I don’t think I ever said I had a problem with violence. My problem is that his plot is featured in episode after episode and we know as much about it now as we did in episode 4. At some point the story has to go somewhere. Sitting here, just watching him get tortured over and over, is stupid. Either do something with the story or drop it. There’s a reason GRRM left this out of the books and D&D aren’t doing a very good job of convincing me they made thr right choice in bringing it to screen. Nothing’s happening.

  230. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    Television Without Pity also finds the scenes a misfire. The showrunners can’t really do much and are probably aware of the reactions these scenes are creating but the season’s already in the can so they will have to wait until next season’s production starts up to do plan that storyline better.

    One thing that distreses me is how much Lloga on the Unsullied board who hates Dany’s arc due to personal prejudices against fantasy was very supportive of the Jaime/Brienne scenes and now hates that arc because of the Jaime rescue at the end. The guy seems to hate any notion of sentimentality whatsoever, even if the narrative justifies it. I think he enjoys the realpolitik of KL and everything else is nonsense to him. I am not sure if he is representative of most viewers though.

  231. GG
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    iam76,

    I get that. But we knew Boy was a twisted psychopath 4 torture scenes ago. Theon has had 3 torture scene thus far that took place directly at Boy’s control(as in we knew it was him pulling the strings) and the plot hasn’t advanced much further. What new info did we learn from his scenes in this that we didn’t know in ep 4/5? IMO they should have cut his torture scene from last week and spent more time writing Ygritte better so that she doesn’t come across so clingy. A scene should either advance the plot or develop the characters in the scene. These repitious torture scenes are doing neither. 2 scenes was enough. 4 is just wasting our time.

  232. tazer
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    David J. Peterson who has created both Dothraki and High Valyrian language for the show writes an interesting thing on dothraki.com about Talisa’s letter:
    “Though I do have the text of it (in both English and High Valyrian, which is what it’s written in), I don’t think I should put it up right now. I’ll put it up when the season’s done with, but there’s been a lot of creativity amongst fans regarding Talisa, and so I think this should remain a mystery for the time being. It isn’t gibberish, though, I can assure you.”
    This makes me think even more that she’s a spy and the whole affair to make Walder Frey angry was set up by Tywin, which could be a pretty neat change compared to books.

  233. Mark
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    Have to say, I’m getting really tired of the Theon torture stuff; and not because I’m a book purist or anything – we all know a lot of this stuff happens in the subtext and in chapters unwritten. I just don’t see the point of it all; we get it. Theon is being toyed with and tortured.

    Where are they going with this and why is the excess necessary?

  234. gisizzlah
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    I dont know if anyone reads comments after 100 but here goes anyway…

    Slow transitional episode again… but thats the consequence of splitting the book…
    I wish the ‘Bear and the Maiden Fair’ scene was longer and the Osha scene was cut…
    Beautifully written and all in all and good episode….

    Wouldnt it be awesome if Talisa was writing to Tywin all the time… and all this talk about pregnancy is just to get Robb even more distracted on his war strategy?
    *boom* That would be an awesome shocker!!

  235. Valdred Dethstorm
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    GeekFurious:
    The only thing that was disappointing to me was the bear sequence. I feel the show, even when it makes changes from the books, tends to emphasize the big scenes well. This time around, it felt off. Like it needed more time devoted to it for the proper impact.

    Yeah, it flatlined. Dead on arrival.
    I was in fact worried that they wouldn’t show the bear pit scene because the minutes were going by and the episode was reaching its end…
    Seriously, the whole thing was rushed, there was no tension at all. The bear itself didn’t look pissed or aggresive, it was more concerned to walk in circles than to chop Jaime’s and Brienne’s heads. Like, it wasn’t out for blood. Looked like a trained bear doing its tricks.
    They should have devoted more time to this scene, instead of wasting it with yet another torture scene or 15 minutes of cock jokes. Or the unnecessary conversations between Tywin and Joffrey or Margaery and Sansa. Plodding, boring scenes that led nowhere.

  236. Shock Me
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 8:48 am | Permalink

    I enjoyed this episode. The bear scene needed some work, but I loved all the character development going on. Finally we are getting Jon out of his emo shell and Robb looks less like an idiot and more like a real person. Loved the scene where Brienne extracts an oath from Jaimie.

    I really think things are being set up from Osha and Rickon and Shaggy Dog to splinter from the group and for Robb to send Talisa and the Blackfish back to Riverun (now that he knows her condition) actually bringing her to Edmure’s wedding makes Robb seem arrogant anyway.

  237. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    blatz,

    I found it very poignant when she told them she had to burn down the home she shared with that man to end his posthumous pursuit. It was solid up ’til then, and heartbreaking thereafter. A great detail.

    Mark,

    It’s weird, but I consider the actors’ work on these scenes awe-inspiring. I found last week’s flaying both hard to watch and brutally effective. This week’s gelding fell flat for me, though. Maybe I’m finally as tired of the relative lack of illumination in these scenes as others, but we also got the most directly book-relevant torture scene this week. I’m not surprised Boy is still officially nameless (since he has no reason to reveal himself except for the sake of viewers), but I’m wondering how that will be handled. Really hoping for a conversation between Boy and his maker, so to speak.

    tazer,

    Whoa! Intriguing!

  238. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    Shock Me,

    Thanks to his evolution this season, I find it a lot easier to revise my headcanon regarding Jon’s poorly received arc before this season. He was wearing an icy and dull poker face until he was kissed by fire and thawed out a bit. :]

  239. freoduwebbe
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    Well, I got huge laugh out of Tormand as Dr Ruth.. he doesn’t realize Jon can lick his eyebrows…. har… don’t worry honey, he’s doing JUST FINE..

    Osha’s story shows why she will eventually split the group – and go south again.
    Loved the hound.

    I may hate the Theon storyline – but his world just keeps getting smaller and smaller – no relief for him at all.

    I was waiting for Locke to end up in the pit.. so sad.
    I enjoyed Jon’s passion about how this invasion will fail – he is certainly learning the pride and humanity of the wildings.

  240. The Winter Rose
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    Agreeing with all recap points, WiC – sums up my thoughts on yesturday episode for me.

  241. WinterRose
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:05 am | Permalink

    Darquemode,

    ALL the non-readers I know have the same opinion about Theon. My non-readers dad, brother and boyfriend keep asking me: “who are these people?”, “why are they doing this?” “where is this going?”, “nothing happens there, every episode is the same” and, most of all, “WHY IS THEON STILL ALIVE?”.

    Basically it means that ,despite of all the gruesome torture, most viewers still don’t care about him. That’s probably because of all the nonsense and artificial mistery built around his arch this season.

    I don’t complain much, I really can’t suggest a better way to tackle his story. I do agree on the decision to show the Reek-process on screen rather than have flashbacks afterwards. But maybe if they devoted less time to those scenes? Maybe if we had it revealed who “boy” is earlier? I don’t know.

  242. coronaking
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    Some comments regarding the recap:

    The Chain – Something tells me we will be seeing that again…

    A bit spoilerish, don’t you think? Why say that in the official recap?

    Most viewers already understand the concept of the wights and that they can only be killed by fire.

    Though it has only been shown twice – in the first season with Jon Snow and Mormont and in the first episode of season 3. Doesn’t hurt to remind the casual viewer now and again.

  243. Leigh
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    DjWeideman,

    It wasn’t just you! I saw that too and was confused because it looked JUST like the place they shot the execution in the pilot.

  244. SonofRant
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    boyo71,

    Nope

  245. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    Leigh,

    You mean the first episode?

    The pilot hasn’t been released to the public in any form.

  246. barak
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    Valdred Dethstorm: Seriously, the whole thing was rushed, there was no tension at all. The bear itself didn’t look pissed or aggresive, it was more concerned to walk in circles than to chop Jaime’s and Brienne’s heads. Like, it wasn’t out for blood. Looked like a trained bear doing its tricks.

    That’s because it was a trained bear doing its tricks. Animal fight scenes in movies/television are always off, simply because it’s obvious that the animal is not fighting, it’s obeying commands. It’s even more obvious in case of wolves/dogs, because you can see they’re having loads of fun.

  247. g16
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    Yeah, I don’t think anyone denies that what is happening to Theon – or at least the end results – happened in the books. The thing is however, that it happened OFF Screen – Theon was actually taken out of the POVs for a book (something that hasn’t happened with any other character except through the AFFC-ADWD split) while it happened.

    In short, there was no need to SHOW us this. You could’ve introduced Reek LAST season and then implied this off screen ala the books. The plotline isn’t working for book readers, it’s not working for not-book readers…..just awful.

  248. NewJeffCT
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:38 am | Permalink

    g16: Yeah, I don’t think anyone denies that what is happening to Theon – or at least the end results – happened in the books. The thing is however, that it happened OFF Screen – Theon was actually taken out of the POVs for a book (something that hasn’t happened with any other character except through the AFFC-ADWD split) while it happened. In short, there was no need to SHOW us this. You could’ve introduced Reek LAST season and then implied this off screen ala the books. The plotline isn’t working for book readers, it’s not working for not-book readers…..just awful.

    Theon was actually out of the POV for two books – he was not in A Storm of Swords nor A Feast for Crows. So, it had really been 13 years of real time that had passed from A Clash of Kings in 1998 till A Dance with Dragons in 2011 (wow, has it been almost 2 years since Dance came out?)

  249. NewJeffCT
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    Also, where did all those extra wildings come from? Were they climbing in several places at once and then met up afterwards? From “The Climb” it seemed like most of the 20 climbers fell & died, with only Tormund, Orell, Jon & Ygritte making it to the top. Yet, it seemed like they had a whole bunch of wildings marching towards Castle Black last night…

  250. Eor!
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard:
    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    ADWD, page 473:

    “He wanted to hit her, to smash that mocking smile off her face. He wanted to kiss her, to fuck her right there on the table and make her cry his name. But he knew he dare not touch her, in anger or in lust. Reek, Reek, my name is Reek. I must not forget my name. He jerked to his feet and made his way wordlessly to the doors, limping on his maimed feet.”

    So there.

    Did you even read your quote? That doesn’t prove anything. All he says is that he wants to fuck her, but can’t. By itself it means nothing, and with the other line about him “having no…” and his fear of people seeing him naked (plus this episode) means the Theon being castrated is basically proven.

  251. Adam
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    Until I started reading comments on this site, I never even thought of the Jeyne/Talissa being a spy theory, but when she was writing those letters in Valaryian, it certainly seems plausible. I hope not though just from a fan perspective.

  252. Lina
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    Overall I liked this episode, but I was a little underwhelmed. I guess I always expect a GRRM episode to be ultra intense.

    Dany’s storyline was my favorite last night. ASOIAF has always explored the idea of whether someone is a king by right or a king by duty, and Dany is exploring that now. Last season she was a princess whining about her birthright. This season she is a queen doing what she believes is just. Everything in that scene looked great: the costumes, the cinematography, and especially the CGI. It’s so good I wouldn’t guess the dragons were fake if I didn’t know such creatures didn’t exist.

    Gendry’s scene was another favorite of mine. Great cinematography here as well (you could feel the movement of the river) and fantastic music (Robert’s motif!). I don’t know what effects this reveal will have on Gendry, but I hope he doesn’t completely disappear because I enjoy Joe Dempsie’s portrayal.

    When I first watched, the bear pit scene underwhelmed me a bit. The bear itself looked great, and was fittingly threatening. NCW’s acting was perfect. I guess I’d forgotten exactly what happened in the books and was expecting a lot more action, but I reread the passage and was forced to reevaluate the show. I think they got it right, though I wish Jaime had thrown Locke in.

    I don’t know what to make of Robb and Talisa. I’m pretty certain now, if she is pregnant and will die at the RW (taking the emotional place of the characters who died in the book that haven’t appeared in the show…Dacey and Smalljon and them). But a tiny part of me still thinks she may be lying. Was she truly writing her mother? I can’t tell if the producers just wanted to get in some more Valyrian or if they’re trying to hint at more.

    Osha’s monologue was too long. Hodor was great.

    Jon and Ygritte have more chemistry in these scenes than in their love scene. That scenery was breathtaking.

    I was wishing for Tywin to be more heavy-handed with Joff, but who would I be to tell Tywin Lannister how to play the game? ;) Jack Gleeson’s little readjustment on the throne when Tywin climbed the stairs was pitch perfect for his character.

    I continue to love Margaery. “…yes, sweet girl…my mother taught me!”

  253. dig
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    I wonder if the Theon/Ramsay arc “reveal” will result in a collective “ah-ha!” with the tv viewing crowd. It’s all right there.

    In Season 2, Bolton tells Robb that he can send his bastard to retake Winterfell and that Theon’s men could probably be easily swayed to turn against him. Then you see Theon’s own men take him out and then Theon is MIA.

    3 shows shows Theon in pretty much every Bolton scene – right there in Bolton’s sigil. That sigil image is the exact same display of Theon almost every time he has screen time.

    Just a thought. I’ll know soon enough, since I’m watching the show with a couple of people who have no idea what’s going on there.

  254. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    NewJeffCT,

    I assume they dropped ropes to ease the climb for others. Makes you wonder why they had so many teams up there when they just endangered each other in their concurrent climbing (Ygritte fail).

    Adam,

    That would be a really weird twist, and a bit distracting. I’ve been accepting of her adaptation thus far, but where else can she go?

  255. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    dig,

    I don’t think most casual viewers would catch it. There was a passing reference by Jaime, and Roose revealing his hobby last season.

    I hope it doesn’t build to a “Theon, I am your torturer…!” moment. I’d rather have a father-son moment to uncover it.

  256. Zack
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    One of the show’s biggest missed opportunities in my view is pretty simple, and it’s the loss of the Greatjon after season one. Now all we see of Robb’s allies is shaky support at best, and it feels like heavy-handed foreshadowing in some respects. They definitely should have made more of an effort to make Robb’s end not entirely inevitable and for that you need to show unwavering supporters

    NewJeffCT,

    Wasn’t the idea that a few small groups would scale the wall and then toss down rope ladders for the rest of them to follow up?

  257. Jay Sutherland
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    Regarding Talisa’s pregnancy and Jon being named heir of Winterfell:

    If Talisa lives, it’s a huge indicator that Jeyne Westerling in the books is pregnant – and it also means there’s no real scope (or purpose) for Jon being named heir. Regardless of whether there’s a purpose, I think it would be a shame, as it gives Jon a real decision to make in ADwD between the wall and Winterfell.

    If they have decided to kill Talisa off at the RW that means there will be an opportunity for the writer’s to have Robb bring up the issue in episode 8. He can be rewriting his will or discussing with Catelyn the news of the pregnancy, and in doing so could name Jon as next in line after his child.

    This would kill two birds with one stone.

    Ergo, I think we’ll get a good idea of whether Talisa will live or die at the RW in the next episode. If he discusses his heir to the throne (and in doing so, names Jon as next in line after the baby), I presume she’ll die.

  258. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    Zack,

    It wasn’t a missed opportunity during S2, but in saddened he didn’t return this year. Karstark was a great naysaying goat, but we could have used a more plentiful depiction of the Northern bannermen. It’s like Robb had more friends in S1 than he ever did later, even before Talisagate and Rickard’s execution.

    On a side note, Clive Mantle (Greatjon) was also in the third Alien film along with Charles Dance.

  259. Zack
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    GG,

    The plot implications of this plot line have been addressed already, but you can’t just show a guy losing his finger and then cut to him later on and he’s a total submissive, scared shell of his former self. It’s about the process of this kid being broken down entirely and remade. And that takes constant pressure over a long period of time, which is why there are multiple scenes.

  260. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    Jay Sutherland,

    Time will tell whether we have a Jeyne Bond on our hands, as some users seem to think. It’s a weird, random theory, but Davy Pete’s compelling tease sure piqued my curiosity.

  261. Valdred Dethstorm
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    barak: That’s because it was a trained bear doing its tricks. Animal fight scenes in movies/television are always off, simply because it’s obvious that the animal is not fighting, it’s obeying commands. It’s even more obvious in case of wolves/dogs, because you can see they’re having loads of fun.

    Should’ve used an animatronic, then. Or added a bit of CGI. Even a man in a bear suit could’ve worked with good editing and a well-planned choreography.
    Something to make the scene more exciting and increase the tension.

  262. Rui
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    Chris Umber,

    I think they did a wrong choice by changing THAT line. Because Jaime is definitely going to meet Stoneheart in book 6 after Brienne goes to get him from the Hornwoods in Dance with Dragons. And Stoneheart is going to definitely charge Jaime with the RW events because she heard Roose Bolton say “Jaime Lannister sends his regards” as he stabbed him. Was not happy by this change, because it can change everythig regarding Brienne and Jaime’s story later on.

  263. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    GG,

    Nothing is happening, except for some truly hair-raising and unnerving performances. I get some people think it’s a total waste of runtime, but I personally find a lot to admire in the execution of these scenes. Just not a huge fan of the last one, though that was arguably one of the more functional scenes in this storyline.

  264. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    Valdred Dethstorm,

    I find little fault with the bear, though I agree costumes/creative editing would have tightened the action a good deal. Like Jaime and Brienne’s bridge duel, I think the bearpit is a case of so-so editing dulling what should have been a thrilling sequence. The most natural duel I can remember is the Hound vs. Beric. That was masterfully wrought and realized.

  265. Lina
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    Zack,

    I agree with you. Robb’s camp transformed rather quickly from everyone yelling “KING IN DA NORTH” every chance they could to everyone seeming disenchanted at best. I think they tried to have Blackfish fill that role, but it’s not the same situation as if Robb still had a strong, supportive Northern lord.

  266. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    Rui,

    Ugh. I knew someone was going to bellyache about this one.

    The crucial line was not changed. Whisper down the lane at all?

  267. RhymeswithWeak
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    Very few people would actually like the Theon torture scenes….but they are needed.
    The fact that GRRM brought him back in a large role in ADWD means he’s important.
    Reading his Reek chapters within his messed up head is enough at that point. Just seeing him on TV (minus several digits) if he’s off screen for two years wont describe how he’s been changed.
    You can write what someone’s thinking…you cant put in on TV….like, are you going to eat up screen time with someone narrating a voice in his head? There’s only ten 55 min episodes per year.
    Whether you hate him or not…or whether he lives or dies….he’s going to be a part of TWOW.

  268. Gregory Kelton
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    How on Earth does WiC’s post not mention ANYTHING about Talisa’s pregnancy??? That’s a HUGE development with HUGE implications for fans of the series! And George wrote it. So the question becomes: is he telling us Jeyne is pregnant (which many have predicted), or is he fucking with us because he can change things because it’s Talisa?

  269. Anne
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    So everybody does realize that since Theon doesn’t actually make an appearance in the story again until ADWD, that we will have at least TWO MORE SEASONS of this same thing, over and over again. oh brother. if people can’t take much more of now, imagine two years from now.

    there was a reason it was left out of the books.

  270. Zack
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    I wondered if this was just me but I totally agree that Jon’s become a lot more tolerable the past few episodes. Maybe he just needed a little ‘action’ the whole time, indeed.

    Lina,

    Yeah, I mean the Blackfish is great but he’s also Robb’s uncle, and family is generally something we can rely upon in all circumstances anyway. A show of that kind of consistent support from someone NOT his uncle would have been great. Right now he’s got his family, his wife and a bunch of treasonous and disillusioned lords.

  271. coronaking
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    Rui:
    Chris Umber,

    I think they did a wrong choice by changing THAT line. Because Jaime is definitely going to meet Stoneheart in book 6 after Brienne goes to get him from the Hornwoods in Dance with Dragons. And Stoneheart is going to definitely charge Jaime with the RW events because she heard Roose Bolton say “Jaime Lannister sends his regards” as he stabbed him. Was not happy by this change, because it can change everythig regarding Brienne and Jaime’s story later on.

    That’s nonsense. Lady Stoneheart could as easily go to get him because she is taking revenge on all the Lannisters and he is the only one in open field, near her. She wouldn’t go to King’s Landing and confront Cersei in the Red Keep or follow Tyrion across the sea. Altering THAT line has no problematic consequences whatsoever.

  272. dig
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    I know my casual viewers are still scratching their heads and wondering what the hell is going on there. I’m curious to see how the producers will go about sorting that particular arc out.

  273. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    Zack,

    “Ygritte, baby, I was a blue-balled corpse before I met yooo-oo-ouuu~!”

  274. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    dig,

    My guess would be to manufacture a mini-arc for his captor and break out the Reekness a bit early. So long as the former has something mildly interesting to do, he can be in the background.

    No matter what people think of these scenes, I think the actors are beyond reproach in their portrayals. It’s the seemingly static storytelling that seems to bother people the most. I do hope they keep them and liven up their arcs a little. Gods know the next two books could use more thrills once S4 adapts the ret of ASOS.

  275. Rui
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    coronaking,

    Sure, she’s on a Frey/Lannister killing spree. No one is arguing about that. I only meant to say that she hears THAT name and, you know, if Catelyn isn’t right in the head now she’s not going to be any better when she’s (un)dead.

  276. barak
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    Valdred Dethstorm: Should’ve used an animatronic, then. Or added a bit of CGI. Even a man in a bear suit could’ve worked with good editing and a well-planned choreography.
    Something to make the scene more exciting and increase the tension.

    Animatronics? A man in a bear suit? Are you serious? That would’ve worked thirty years ago (MAYBE) but in 2013 it would’ve looked just ridiculous.
    As for CGI, that money went for Dany’s dragons. (Actually, I think they used some CGI in the bear scenes, too.)

    Considering the options I think using a real bear was the best they could do. They could’ve made the scene a bit more thrilling with some clever editing, but what with the bear obviously not being a ferocious, wild beast, it wouldn’t have been heart-stoppingly thrilling anyway.

  277. Shock Me
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    I suspect we won’t see who “Boy” is until after the RW or a shot of Roose’s actions at the Twins. Perhaps then we can see Theon pass out and wake up back in Winterfell. (If he hasn’t been there the entire time. A somewhat playful but implausible scenario since he grew up there)

  278. Ashley
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    The bear pit scene wasn’t written by george they shuffled it from the previous episode.

  279. Kalasin
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    Jay Sutherland,

    It just doesn’t seem to make sense to me that he would make Jon second in line if Talisa is pregnant. And what’s frustrating is that they’ve already wiped out one of the several reasons he has for naming Jon, i.e. the “knowledge” that Bran and Rickon are dead. I assume they are going to at least let him get the news about Sansa and Tyrion next week. But I think the Jon thing is a moment of desperation. And if Talisa is pregnant, there is no desperation. So my first thought when this happened was, “so is she going to miscarry next week or what?” I dunno, we’ll see. Maybe he will make Jon second in line. That’s probably what they’ll do, assuming that’s a critical plot point (which I’ve always assumed it would be but obviously we don’t know yet).

    I will also be disappointed if she turns out not to be a spy, if only because learning that Tywin orchestrated the whole thing from the beginning was such a great reveal in the books. I don’t think it has to mean she’s not in love with him, although it does complicate maters. Talisa has a great deal of agency. Jeyne was not actually a spy – she was a pawn. So she was able to really fall in love with Robb while still betraying him, because she wasn’t in control of the situation. Talisa has more control (as far as we know).

  280. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    coronaking,

    I agree the line is a classic/important. I disagree that it has already been ruined. The moment has not yet passed, and people generally paraphrase, not parrot.

    barak,

    They could have faked the death of the bear with those additional means. Without either the bear or Locke going down, I felt a bit cheated. I wanted closure. :(

    RhymeswithWeak,

    Agreed. Let’s hope this is true.

  281. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    Ashley,

    Oh, good, ’cause I had some serious issues with some of the bear’s lines. I felt like they totally bricked on the book with that show-specific monologue. I was wondering why he was a shadow of his book counterpart…

  282. Valdred Dethstorm
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    barak: Animatronics? A man in a bear suit? Are you serious? That would’ve worked thirty years ago (MAYBE) but in 2013 it would’ve looked just ridiculous.
    As for CGI, that money went for Dany’s dragons. (Actually, I think they used some CGI in the bear scenes, too.)

    Considering the options I think using a real bear was the best they could do. They could’ve made the scene a bit more thrilling with some clever editing, but what with the bear obviously not being a ferocious, wild beast, it wouldn’t have been heart-stoppingly thrilling anyway.

    I beg to differ.
    I still think the shark in “Jaws” is pretty awesome, even if more than thirty years have passed. Some shots from the “POV” of the bear would’ve been cool as well (maybe having Jaime poking at the camera with the wooden sword).
    The scene could’ve been way better, no doubt.

  283. Carlos
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    Fourth Of His Name,

    Hahaha, I have co workers who are not book readers that think the same, I almost regret having read the books myself.

  284. redqueen
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    DjWeideman,

    Scene shot in Los Angeles. Bear lives here, couldn’t be taken out of the country.

  285. Shock Me
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    barak,

    I think the bear scene falls short simply because of the camera angles. I found the bear very convincingly aggressive for several moments but the camera angle made the scene less impactful. An over Brienne’s shoulder with the bear charging would have been scary even if they had to composite it with the bear by itself and the wench added later. They would have need the people that edited Terminator 2 to make use of all the wonderful footage they didn’t get. Oh well, the scene where Jaimie and Brienne said goodbye would still have been better.

    With respect to Talisa, my hope is that she IS pregnant and that she and the Blackfish are sent back to Riverun to hold it until Jaimie finally takes it. There should be some pay off gotten by the earlier changing of Oona’s character from Jeyne Westerling to a Volantine.

    After reading ADwD, my fondest hope is for the Blackfish to use the BwB and the post-hanging Brienne to intercept and rescue the hostage Talisa and whatever happens following Brienne’s approach to Jaime described fleetingly in the last book.

  286. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    Carlos,

    I think I’ve been secretly in denial this season. Knowing what happens is one thing, but seeing the little hints that are getting us there… The anticipation/dread is starting to crystallize. Those Dornish mouth-lazer clownbears are going to be BRUTAL..

  287. Lina
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    Zack,

    Yes, and more importantly, Blackfish isn’t Northern. Robb said it himself last episode when talking to the Freys – he’s fighting for the North, and the Riverlands (and the river lords) aren’t in the North. It’s not a huge deal and I don’t want to whine about how the show didn’t include Greatjon or Maege or whoever at the RW, but it would have been nice (and I think a bit more stabilizing for the scales of Robb’s fate thus far) if he still had a Northern lord by his side who was proud to call him King. The RW was just so insanely dramatic and unexpected when I read it that I really want TV viewers to have the same experience. I want them all to cry and feel betrayed, damnit!

  288. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Shock Me,

    Granted, I’m sure it’s hella hard to sustain dramatic angles/action for any meaningful length when working with a bear, but it fell flat for me. Totally agree the camerawork was wanting. Not enough of a coherent threat given off by the mixed up footage. Glad to see some newbie reviewers got a thrill out of it, though.

  289. Hawk
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    Valdred Dethstorm,

    the scene failed in totality b/c there is no sense that they are holding off the bear…the fault lies w/ the director, the editors, and the producers for putting that scene on the screen the way they did…Brienne gets swiped twice by the bear and doesn’t appear to have received any more scratches than the ones she had when the scene began…so much fail in that scene…

  290. Leigh
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    Yes, that’s what I meant.

  291. jkb
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    what is it with you book readers compering everything. i read the books and i couldn’t give three shits about the changes as long as the main story remains intact. i loved every single bit of this episode and the changes make it all the more exciting to watch.

    the show is NOT MADE for book readers. books are books, TV show is a TV show. just deal with it.

  292. TC
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    JamesL,

    Completely agree. One Scene and done. Alfie is a good actor but if this is to keep him around its a mistake. really distracting non-book watchers (my wife literally got up and walked out and didn’t come back to watch the rest) and would love to see that precious time in about 10 other story lines…

  293. Gregory Kelton
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    Fourth Of His Name:
    JamesL, “The PW should have been the season finale this season….”

    while I agree… I can’t help but think that the show catching up with the books so quickly is a HUGE factor. Splitting ASoS into 2ish seasons gives GRRM time to (at least) finish the next book. Of course, the show catching up with the books – and then having to take a hiatus/end suddenly – has been a fear from the beginning.

    Pretty sure D&D did an interview where they flat out said that if they passed GRRM, so be it, they’d keep going, and not take a break or end abruptly. That’s why they met with GRRM recently, to get details about where things are going past what is currently known.

  294. Eddward
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    I am sure this has been said (unfortunately I have not had the time to read all of the postings yet), but I think (IMO) that the Osha monolog was to give a backstory as to the reason she is so animate about not returning to the North. She has a real fear of what is up there and sees going north of the wall to be suicidal.

    Just my thoughts on why it was included.

  295. fuelpagan
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    Anne:
    So everybody does realize that since Theon doesn’t actually make an appearance in the story again until ADWD, that we will have at least TWO MORE SEASONSof this same thing, over and over again. oh brother. if people can’t take much more of now, imagine two years from now.

    there was a reason it was left out of the books.

    Not necessarily. One more scene showing Theon is truly broken and then we’ll see him transform into Reek.

    I think just jumping ahead to when Theon is broken without showing how or why he is now a broken man would have been a huge mistake. The book got away with it by filling in backstory, something that won’t work in the visual medium of television.

  296. Daniellica
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    Have been a long-lasting lurker, but felt compelled to add a couple points:

    RE: Talissa/Blackfish
    Do you not think Robb will send Talissa back to Riverrun now that he knows his lady is pregnant? And who better to send to protect her than the Blackfish? Also, Cat’s look back at them as she leaves the tent might give added ammunition, “Walder Frey is a prickly man” and won’t want to see the woman who replaced his daughter at her wedding. Just a thought and a sensible out for them to take next episode.

    RE: Theon/Ramsay
    I think these scenes are more about setting up the kind of man Ramsay is than about what Theon endures. By the time we get Theon back in book 5, he is utterly destroyed, his transformation to Reek complete. All that happened in the interim between books 2 and 5, so it makes sense to give us a glimpse into this now. I agree that it’s a bit much, but “The Boy” is so wicked, I feel dirty inside every time I drool over his performance.

    RE: Season 4
    A few have mentioned this, that most like we’ll be getting the end of book 3 and the beginnings of 4/5 at the end of season 4. Also, at its heart, ASOIAF is a character-compelled drama, not a bunch of action scenes hamstrung together with sexy bits, though there are plenty of both. Packing episodes with action dulls the effects of emotion, whereas forcing your audience to sit through the discomfort your characters feel heightens the action when it does occur.

    Not to mention that these guys are on a TV budget. An HBO budget, to be sure, but still a TV budget. I don’t envy D&D’s choices, but as someone was a screenwriter for years, working in both original and adapted material, they’ve done a great job of economizing while maximizing emotional potential.

    Aaaand…now I retreat back to the dark hole from whence I came. 0_o

  297. AngryRosFan
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    Utiz4321,

    I’m going to have to respectfully disagree. Last week we had the difference between the horror of Theon’s torture and the horror of what Joffrey did to my poor Ros. The scene with Ros was shocking but almost artistic, and we didn’t have to see him actually shooting the arrows or hear Ros’s screams to be horrified by it.

    In contrast, we’ve had three weeks of seeing Theon disgusting physicial torture that doesn’t give the audience any more insight into who Boy is that we didn’t know from the first reveal of his sadistic side. I get it, Theon is being broken. What’s next? If this is all they have for Alfie Allen to do, I’m going to be fast-forwarding all Theon scenes until the end of the season.

  298. WompWomp
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    Daniellica,

    Welcome to the boards proper! Don’t stay holed up too long. Sounds like you have a lot to share.

    I too am transfixed by nearly every bloodcurdling moment of Rheon’s performance. I have high hopes that, given a proper adaptation of AFFC/ADWD, performers like him can elevate the material to heights unseen even in the novels.

  299. Michael K
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    We should get to meet Dario next week and he will make everyone forget about the slow pace of the last couple of episodes. Then episodes 9 and 10 will both be really big, just like we knew they were planning all along.

    Some of these scenes seem pointless but it all has to do with the limitations of TV compared to the books. We some times don’t see certain characters in a book at all and don’t see their story until later. So on the show they have to keep giving us little bits here and there just to see the actors.

    Even with that I think we are long over due to have Osha split off with Rickon like she did in the books long before the point we are at now. We haven’t seen Rickon at all this season, even though he supposed to be there, and it’s like they are forcing Osha on us on purpose because people like her character. Let her and Rickon split off and that will explain their absence. After all even after book 5 we still have not seen them in the books since they first parted ways with the Reeds, Bran and Hodor.

  300. Croccifixio
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    theon’s scenes for me is YMMV.

    i was excited when i heard they will show it instead of him disappearing for 3 seasons. got a kicked when he uttered the line “My real father lost his head in kingslanding” but now his scenes feel like a drag. its like if they showed jaime in season 2 tied to the post for SEVEN episodes. it feels pretty tiring.

    i wasnt bothered by the gratitious nudity until this episode. maybe because the theon scenes are bothersome for me now. don’t get me more, i love allen’s portrayal of theon and i still believe he should have at least garnered an Emmy nomination for his performance last year but it became so dragging for me.

    yes, i know it may be important to detail theon’s journey from theon to reek to theon but it just got dragged out.

    i think i just got too excited and my expectations were very high since GRRM penned this episode but for me it is one of the weakest of this season. just like i was too excited for the neil gaiman doctor who episode yesterday.

    adapting ASOS is really tricky. too short for a 10-episode season and short for 2 10-episode seasons

  301. Clob
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    Anne: So everybody does realize that since Theon doesn’t actually make an appearance in the story again until ADWD, that we will have at least TWO MORE SEASONS of this same thing, over and over again. oh brother. if people can’t take much more of now, imagine two years from now.there was a reason it was left out of the books.

    Remember that Feast and Dance are chronologically happening simultaneously. If they weren’t there would be a far greater problem for the show adapted by the book than Theon’s storyline. That would be Tyrion’s as he’s not in Feast at all. Getting to some of the Dance storylines isn’t as far off as it may seem.

  302. Garlan the Gallant
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard,

    But Bran and Stannis don’t really do anything at all in these parts of ASOS…

  303. mags giantsbabe
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    For those concerned about where all the Wildlings sout of the Wall suddenly come from, it does indeed look as if everyone falls except Tormund and co., but during the last scene of ep 6, just as Jon helps Ygritte up to walk to the other side, you can see other wildlings climbing up, in the far-ish background.

  304. tysnow
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    Yep, learned that Tal/Jeyne is preggers, Theon is gelded (though castrated men can get erections, just not near as often, reduction in size, shortened duration and no sperm), Mel is as sexy as ever, Tywin rules! BF going to RW? Bran and Reeds begin slide to the dark side.
    Charlotte Hope wasn’t Myranda Royce (I sure hope she is back for many episodes) gives Carice, Emmanuel, Lena and Emilia a run as most beautiful in GoT. Gendry can now be Arya’s almost equal (there is hope for the two). Three men love/lust Ygritte, what’s a Wildling girl to due.

    HBO though needs to speed up the pace in future seasons at this point, it is going a tad to slow. Worried we will lose momentum that Ep 4 and 5 gave the series, hopefully a lesson learned similar to the Memorial Weekend fiasco from last year.

  305. GeekFurious
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    mags giantsbabe:
    For those concerned about where all the Wildlings sout of the Wall suddenly come from, it does indeed look as if everyone falls except Tormund and co., but during the last scene of ep 6, just as Jon helps Ygritte up to walk to the other side, you can see other wildlings climbing up, in the far-ish background.

    Yeah, it is easy to miss but in the top right hand corner of the screen you see others making it over the wall.

  306. Govnor
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    KG:
    Bran’s story is dull as dishwater in the books, too. I could not care less about what happens to him.

    I have to agree. He could be gone from the books at this point and it would make no difference to me.

  307. quel
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    I think Talisa may have a miscarriage and then Robb considers his heir, then decides Jon Snow should be his heir in case of no children?

    Whatever, it was a good episode, despite Theon scene, quite lonlg and unecessary, imho. Highlight for the bearpit. It felt rushed, but was great. Bart nailed it!

  308. Big Bad Wolf
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    Great episode, as usual. Just two complaints:

    1) I’d have enjoyed a bit more of bear pit scene, or the “I only rescue maidens” sentence.

    2) Theon’s scenes. I consider them important to set “Boy”‘s character and M.O., but they don’t need to put a torture scene in every episode. It’s getting repetitive and boring.

  309. Anne
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    I agree we need to see the transformation. But I don’t think it needed to all be shoved into this season. There is time to show this arc…two more seasons worth of time.

    Meanwhile, other arcs that need the time NOW are suffering.

    If there are two common threads in all the recaps and reviews (from readers and non readers alike) I have read for this season, they are this:

    1. Theon’s arc is taking people OUT of the story at hand; people don’t understand what’s happening; people don’t care about Theon; etc…

    2. Nobody cares about Bran

    this second one disturbs me. Now I have read above a few comments about Bran’s storyline and how some readers think its boring (I recall the term “dull as dishwater”). So those of you who don’t care about Bran’s storyline DON’T need to comment again, I heard your point. I’m going to say my piece and be done with it now.

    I, for one, think Bran’s storyline is extremely important to the larger story arc of the whole series. The series is called “A Song Of Ice And Fire,” don’t forget. If some of you reader’s STILL think this story is about who’s ass sits on a stupid iron chair or just about who rules a kingdom, you have totally missed the point. The story is leading to, and really about, a BIG BATTLE OF MAGIC. A battle between ICE AND FIRE. Ice and fire represent two forms of magic, that will DESTROY THE WORLD AND ALL THE PEOPLE IN IT, unless some of these people can learn how it works; can learn how to control and use it to their advantage; and to figure out how to suppress again, like it was suppressed for a thousand + years. Magic is the ‘big evil’ here, magic is manipulating the story and most of the characters at this point (IN THE BOOKS).

    and that’s why nobody caring about Bran now is disturbing. Because Bran will have a big part to play in controlling the magic. (he is of course going to be on the “Ice” side). I wouldn’t be surprised if somehow he ends up “controlling” the others (a theory I came to myself from the last book).

    The magical/supernatural elements of Bran’s story is barely coming across in this adaptation. At this point in the story, his connection with the 3-eyed crow should have been established. He should have flown with and seen through the eyes of the crow by now. I’m convinced D&D are having trouble with this storyline, trouble presenting it in a visual medium. Instead we get two scenes in the last two episodes that only establish that Osha and Rickon will break off from this group. When what we need is an explanation of Bran’s magical properties.

    let me ask you, what is more important to the story: Bran’s supernatural/magical abilities, or that he’s going to split up with his brother? (which can be shown/happen in many various ways without so much explanation and still make sense).

    How is this for an establishing scene: we’ve already seen that Bran can warg into Summer. So why can’t there be a scene where Bran is running with and seeing through Summer’s eyes, and then he comes across the 3 eyed crow (or raven they’re calling it in the show) in the woods, and the beasts eyes meet…and whoosh the transfer between wolf and crow happens, and then we see the world through the crows eyes, we see Bran flying with the crow. Once they have established this connection, the sky’s the limit with presenting Bran’s supernatural abilities! He can have visions, there can be flashbacks and flash forwards if they wanted to use those devices, there is just so much potential for story telling once the writers make this connection! Instead, all we are getting with Bran is wheel spinning. No wonder no one cares for him.

    and then there is also the lack of warging with the other Stark children…but whatever…the story is so big…I understand that..i understand the changes needed for adapting to a visual medium…it’s just… I think there has got to be a better way with Bran. I feel no sense of urgency with his story and I think there needs to be some. I thought the Reeds would bring it but now we’re seven episodes in and it hasn’t really happened. it’s something I’m disappointed with in this season which has had A LOT Of EXCELLENCE IN IT.

    MOST of this season has been excellent, i actually do think it’s the best season yet, but these last two episodes have been a bit meh for me concerning a couple of the story lines, and Bran’s is the biggest misstep for me at least. I am hopeful though that these last three episodes will blow me away though.

  310. White Flea
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Or her mother will give her moon tea per Tywin’s bargain.

  311. BLKNIGHT18
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    I think the reason why the Theon / “Boy” scenes are now necessary to show week after week, rather than do it off screen, not only has to do with whatever contract situation there is for Alfie Allen, but also has to do with the problem they created by combining Dagmar and “Reek” from the the Clash of Kings into one character in Season 2. so much of what we know about Ramsay comes from things we see him do on screen in CoK, like how he likes to hunt, his willingness to kill 2 innocent boys, and his ability to make Theon like him, to fool Theon, etc. We see him do all these things in CoK on screen. By having Dagmar in Season 2 betray Theon, kill the boys, etc. they are trying to make up for it with the scenes this year during the torture.

  312. Joshua Taylor
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    Things are stalling, they had an opportunity to pick up the pace and they didn’t. I’m curious as to why? Next week will be the litmus test whether the show’s momentum has been compromised. I really, really loved the first 5 eps this year and right now I think the shuffling of scenes for 6,7 and probably 8 has this lull. Not terrible, just sluggish. I am convinced that D and D are intent on making a show to be viewed as a binge watch experience.

    I fear that Theon’s scenes as necessary as they may be will provide the catalyst for the inevitable GoT backlash.

  313. armsbendback
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    Re: Jaime Lannister sends his regards vs. the “Lannisters send their regards.”

    It’s still Jaime who speaks those words face to face to Bolton. I see no reason why Bolton in turn still couldn’t say “Jaime Lannister sends his regards” at the appropriate moment.

  314. El Beto
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    I’m not happy with the Bran story, it’s one of the best in book 3 and Jojen and Meera are crucial for Bran, two of my favorite characters of all books.
    We see them little and when whe do are complete invented scenes…
    Instead we get to see Theon every f#ckin’ week, with a story that is NOT going to advance in seasons coming.

  315. Anne
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    Clob,

    Yes, and the showrunners will adapt both Feast and Dance chronologically and simultaneously for the show, so if Tyrion disappears, it will probably only be for 4-5 episodes in season 4, and then he’ll be back again early in season 5. As for Theon, chronologically, what happens to him in season 4 (which will be mostly the end of Book 3) is just more torture. So we’re going to get two seasons worth of “the breaking of Theon.”

    see what I am getting at? I understand we need to see this, but I don’t feel we need so much it of right now.

  316. Ser Balon Swann
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    Possible thoughts about the various Talisa theories. I could see her living through the wedding if perhaps one of the Freys or Boltons grabs her first and puts a knife to her throat to keep Robb or anyone else from attacking back before they kill them. Also, perhaps Talisa is not a spy, but since she did originally seem to be nursing Lannister soldiers, it could suggest her Volantene family has ties to the Lannisters. And if you remember in the books, it was Jeyne’s mother and uncle who betrayed her and Robb to the Lannisters. So there could be a scene post-Red Wedding similar to the scene with Jeyne’s mother in the books where we are introduced to Talisa’s mother who had been feeding the information to the Lannisters from Talisa’s letters the whole time. A little far-fetched perhaps, but based on what happened in the books and how Talisa keeps mentioning her mother I don’t think its completely unfounded, and it would be likely for Talisa’s mother to strongly disapprove of her choices and to take action on it just as Jeyne’s mother did.

  317. voiceofreason
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    Anne,

    Nope. DwD will be season 5, with some material in season 4.

  318. voiceofreason
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    It probably came off as lacking as GRRMs depiction of a bear was incredibly unrealistic. The man isnt an animal handler.

  319. Turncloak
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    Ser Balon Swann,

    I think the characters of Jeyne and Jeyne’s mom have been combined. Talisa is feeding information to Tywin. She will be the one to slit Cat’s throat. And then she will be hanged in episode 10 by Lady Stoneheart. Calling it now

  320. I'm Unsullied
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    I think Lady T will appear to be rescued during the RW by the Blackfish, but will get a crossbow bolt in the back just as it seems they have escaped the carnage. Doing this will be a brutal end to a just epic, horrifying scene.

  321. Hawk
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    voiceofreason,

    It came off as lacking, b/c it was lacking…has nothing to do with GRRM’s depiction of anything…

    it came across as a staged scene using a trained bear and did not present the illusion of anything but that…poorly framed, poorly shot, poorly edited, poorly executed…

  322. Isabelle
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    Siobhán Mooney:
    I also think that all the scenes with Jon, Ygritte and Orell were great. In particular, I think that the scene where Jon tells Ygritte of failed wildling campaigns of the past and why they won’t succeed this time showed Jon at his best, as an intelligent and loyal young man who is torn apart by his feelings and trying to do the best by his oath and by the woman he loves.

    Completely agree–this episode contained the best material for Jon from the last two seasons by far. He finally reminded us what a good head he has on his shoulders, and we got some liveliness from Tormund as well! I’m so glad they included “all men must die, but first we’ll live.”

    I think Talisa is a dead woman walking. If she’s indeed pregnant, she’s either miscarrying soon or mother and child are dying at the Red Wedding. Either way, I can’t see them not mentioning the northern succession and Jon’s potential role in an upcoming episode. But yeah–dead woman walking.

    Catelyn had the saddest look in her eye as she took in Robb and Talisa at the end of that tent scene. She knows that romance can only spell disaster, but can do nothing to stop it. The Blackfish was great, too–leave it to GRRM to write a line about shit that didn’t feel gratuitous!

    Melisandre can be so creepy when she wants to be–if I were Gendry, I’d be running as fast as I could in the opposite direction. Can’t wait to see what they make of that storyline next episode.

    Dany’s stuff absolutely rocked. The look in her eye, the dragons, the staging…just brilliant. Her scenes have shifted from the scenes I looked forward to the least (last season) to some of my favourites!! My non-reader friend couldn’t understand why she let the slaver leave with his slaves and gold, though–he thought she should have said something like “you can leave with your life and anything you can carry.” Khaleesi is generous : )

    Overall, the episode was great–really entertaining, and it only got better during the re-watch. How can we only have three weeks left?

    tazer,

    Ooh, intriguing! Personally, I’m hoping the letter’s about absolutely nothing of consequence, and that they’re only keeping the contents a secret to keep us guessing!

  323. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    eriktopham,

    Oh I completely agree!
    Even at its worst Game of Thrones is better than 75% of the shows on TV at their best.

  324. Hilary
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

    I have some questions:

    - Have we been told the dragons’ names yet? And if not, WHY not? It’s not a huge deal, but I think it’s important to know their names. It helps establish their connection with Dany and with their namesakes. It was awesome when Kraznys got burnt to a crisp, but I was really hoping to hear Dany say, “Drogon. Dracarys.”

    - Why don’t we see Dany interacting with Rhaegal or Viserion? I know she and Drogon have the strongest connection, but she needs to spread the dragon love!

    The most pressing question:

    - WHERE ARE THE DIREWOLVES??? I know it’s expensive and difficult to include them, but SERIOUSLY! We haven’t seen Grey Wind ONCE this season! There hasn’t even been a mention of him! Even if we saw him in the background, curled up on the floor in the corner, just so we know he’s there. I’m not a book purist, but it’s almost like Robb doesn’t have a wolf at all. And I was sure that Ghost would be back with Jon by now, but I fear there’s no way he can get across the Wall.

  325. Turncloak
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    Lou Reed,

    No Joff says those words at his own wedding. The scene from the preview is the one where Tyrion threatens Joffrey. It also makes sense since we hear Joff say “What…did…you…DOOOO!!!!!” In the promo

  326. Vini Oliveira
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    I see so many people concerned about “too much torture for Theon”, and all I can think is: it will never be enough. He was a foolish young man with lust for pride and glory, and betrayed his best friend, who lost everything because of that. A clean “Ned Stark” death would be too honored and noble for him. Bolton style fits him perfectly

  327. Shady_Grady
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    I thought this episode was a little slow but set up a lot of things which will take place shortly. I thought Talisa writing letters in a language that Robb doesn’t understand was a nice nod to the other letter writing we’ve seen all season. And if it turns out as I suspect that Talisa is indeed in cahoots with Tywin Lannister and either does not attend the Red Wedding or is seen by Robb to willingly go with Roose/some other Frey as he dies, the sense of betrayal and injustice will be that much greater, as it appears we won’t be getting the GreatJon’s last stand. Perhaps The Blackfish will do that?

  328. Stone Cold Bastard
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    Eor!: Did you even read your quote? That doesn’t prove anything. All he says is that he wants to fuck her, but can’t. By itself it means nothing, and with the other line about him “having no…” and his fear of people seeing him naked (plus this episode) means the Theon being castrated is basically proven.

    Do you even read? Can you even comprehend what Martin wrote? Why would a man, without genitalia, feel lust and want to have sex with a spear wife? That makes no sense whatsoever, and Martin isn’t that stupid to make such a mistake. Theon would’ve been so traumatized after that, that the last thing he’d ever feel or want is lust. So, either Martin screwed up, or Theon isn’t castrated in the books but is in the show.

  329. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    eriktopham,

    The shot of Gwendoline holding her wood sword vs the bear, covered in blood, not an ounce of fear – awesome.

    IDK, she looked pretty scared to me! And if she hadn’t, I would have called BS. As great a warrior as Brienne and Jamie are, even fully armed with a real sword, they wouldn’t have a good chance of beating a bear. And they’re smart enough to know it. No, hindered by a dress with a wooden sword, Brienne thought she was going to die and she was until Jaime showed up.

  330. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

    WinterRose,

    Exactly.

    That’s how I see it too. I know what is coming so I can on some level “appreciate” the transformation of Theon, but if I had not read the books it seems like it is going absolutely nowhere very slowly.

    It all could have been accomplished in 2 or 3 episodes with less scenes, shorter scenes and the point would be made. They can show one scene of torture that is gruesome. Maybe showing one of the fingers and commenting about gelding him …. and then show the aftereffects in the following episode. Everyone would still have gotten the point with the help of one scene of exposition after the torture ends..

    As it stands now with the faked escape and mind torture as well as the multiple scenes of physical torture it is simply redundant and will not pay off the way they want. Period.

    Even when non-readers learn “Boy’s” identity I bet most will say “Who? So what? Theon deserves to be tortured” and not “Oh my god he is a Bolton!” Many non-readers do not know who Bolton is even! XD

  331. Stone Cold Bastard
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

    Hilary:

    The most pressing question:

    - WHERE ARE THE DIREWOLVES??? I know it’s expensive and difficult to include them, but SERIOUSLY! We haven’t seen Grey Wind ONCE this season! There hasn’t even been a mention of him! Even if we saw him in the background, curled up on the floor in the corner, just so we know he’s there. I’m not a book purist, but it’s almost like Robb doesn’t have a wolf at all. And I was sure that Ghost would be back with Jon by now, but I fear there’s no way he can get across the Wall.

    Couldn’t agree more. They’re my favourite aspect about ASOIAF, and we barely see them at all. Grey Wind was actually shown twice so far this season (albeit barely), when Robb and his army are marching to Riverrun, and we also saw a brief glimpse of him in the background when Robb executed Rickard Karstark. We’ve seen Shaggydog once, Summer twice, and Ghost twice. It blows. And too much disgusting Theon torture and boring Tyrell scheming.

  332. Ed
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

    Right. And that’s why the scene wasn’t early as exciting as it could have been. Not saying I know what the solution is, but it was a dud from the Vicious Bear standpoint. Jamie was great, Brienne was great, Bear… wasn’t.

    barak: That’s because it was a trained bear doing its tricks. Animal fight scenes in movies/television are always off, simply because it’s obvious that the animal is not fighting, it’s obeying commands. It’s even more obvious in case of wolves/dogs, because you can see they’re having loads of fun.

  333. Ed
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    Which is too bad, cause the setup was great. The arrival of Jamie, the bear pit, the raucous crowd… It was exactly as I’d imagined when I read the book. But the Bear just didn’t seem very threatening. (shrug) Oh well, another swing and a miss by D&D. They’re still batting about .900, but there’s been a few little hiccups. Still a great show though.

    Hawk:
    voiceofreason,

    It came off as lacking, b/c it was lacking…has nothing to do with GRRM’s depiction of anything…

    it came across as a staged scene using a trained bear and did not present the illusion of anything but that…poorly framed, poorly shot, poorly edited, poorly executed…

  334. Stone Cold Bastard
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    Darquemode:
    WinterRose,

    Exactly.

    That’s how I see it too. I know what is coming so I can on some level “appreciate” the transformation of Theon, but if I had not read the books it seems like it is going absolutely nowhere very slowly.

    It all could have been accomplished in 2 or 3 episodes with less scenes, shorter scenes and the point would be made. They can show one scene of torture that is gruesome. Maybe showing one of the fingers and commenting about gelding him …. and then show the aftereffects in the following episode. Everyone would still have gotten the point with the help of one scene of exposition after the torture ends..

    As it stands now with the faked escape and mind torture as well as the multiple scenes of physical torture it is simply redundant and will not pay off the way they want. Period.

    Even when non-readers learn “Boy’s” identity I bet most will say “Who? So what? Theon deserves to be tortured” and not “Oh my god he is a Bolton!” Many non-readers do not know who Bolton is even! XD

    Great to see a lot of people feel this way.

    Last night’s scene was very disturbing and not necessary, just way too over the top and pointless bad horror movie inspired overkill – as if it was to satisfy sadist Ramsay fanboys. Like you said, it all could’ve been accomplished very quickly in a few scenes in 2-3 episodes. It would have been preferable to show Theon – which occurred in ADWD – in a dark cell, with no food, water etc and suffering from dehydration, malnutrition etc and losing his sanity.

  335. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    Valdred Dethstorm,

    I thought the actual fight was fine, better than I expected honestly!
    I agree though, the fight did not have the necessary build up or climax. Having a scene between Ygritte and Jon and then a scene with Bran’s company taking up 5 or 10 minutes before the bear pit sapped all the energy leading up to the scene.

    It felt like it did not belong in the episode. Especially because in essence this was the climax if not finale of the Jaime and Brienne arc for the season!

  336. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    Hilary:
    - WHERE ARE THE DIREWOLVES??? I know it’s expensive and difficult to include them, but SERIOUSLY! We haven’t seen Grey Wind ONCE this season! There hasn’t even been a mention of him! Even if we saw him in the background, curled up on the floor in the corner, just so we know he’s there.

    He was there during Karstark’s beheading, in the background.

  337. Anne
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    voiceofreason,

    I already know this. see my post two above yours where I discuss “chronologically”

    It proves I am well aware of the chronology of the adaptation.

  338. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    Seriously, that Theon scene. I’ve more or less appreciated each one of his scenes until now. Alfie and Iwan are masterful, but I got a sexed up vibe in this last one.

    I agree, the sex in that scene made me really uncomfortable considering the context of it. But then again, it’s supposed to make us squirm because it is VERY twisted. I don’t think it was sex for the sake of titillation. I think it is to show, once again, that The Boy is incredibly cruel and why Theon will end up being so effed up by the time his torturer is done with him. I honestly think non-readers would have been baffled by Theon being normal one season and completely broken the next without seeing the transformation. Even as uncomfortable as it makes us to watch it, it’s necessary.

    That all being said, if it continues on and on, I will lose my patience with it. I don’t know what that line will be for me, maybe if his torture is shown in detail again in the last three episodes or if it goes into next season then I will say “enough is enough”. The only exchange I want to see between now and the season finale is The Boy telling Theon that Robb is dead. It will be the cherry on top of Theon’s shit sundae and The Boy doesn’t have to touch him at all to make it a compelling scene and it would be good point to end the torture sequence. I think that kind of ending will give non-book readers a solid base of info on Theon and his mental state to understand what happens with his character in the future

  339. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    magnuskn,

    I think Robb’s promise to go to Volantis with Talisa was a red herring for non-book readers. It’s just another thing to set up the horror of the RW and that may be all there is to Talisa’s pregnancy too, a false hope.

  340. Global Crush King
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    easteros bunny,

    I dont know if you read the books, but there should be alot MORE sexy times than they put in the show. Talisa’s ass = amazing!!

  341. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    I asked once earlier.

    Does anyone know what other scenes were shifted in this episode other than the bear pit scene which was supposed to be in Episode 3.08 originally and later shifted forward?

    The previous title of Chains makes me wonder if Tyrion’s wedding or the Eyrie was supposed to be in the episode.

    Regardless, GRRM did not write the entire episode, at least 2 scenes would have been shifted. The bear pit scene and what was removed to make room for it.

    Hopefully whatever scenes of his were moved out of the episode will be stellar in the next episode!

  342. Zack
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ,

    Well said. I’ve liked the scenes to this point but I think they’ve done all they can do. I’d prefer to see Boy refrain from the physical torture for awhile and just mess with his mind, it’s not so gut-wrenching to watch that and it can convey the same information to the audience, at least now that Theon is short a finger and his twig & berries.

  343. FlayedManofBK
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    easteros bunny,

    kind of ironic that you’re such a stickler for book accuracy yet you call essos “easteros”

  344. GDG
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    I agree with those of you pointing out the lack of direwolves.

    I love the show, but that remains my #1 complaint: it feels like the wolves are forgotten, and then once or twice a season they slap ‘em in the background, as if to say, “Hey, look, see? The wolves still exist.”

    I thought for sure as the series went on we’d be seeing MORE of the wolves — especially more of Ghost and Grey Wind in season 3. But it feels like it’s been the opposite. We have to sit through long, boring Theon torture scenes every week, but we can’t get the occasional glimpse of a wolf — or at the VERY least, mentions of the wolves in the characters’ dialogue. Why do Jon and Robb never talk about their wolves????

    Blah.

    Someone needs to make a YouTube video parodying the “Whur Mah Boats At” Daenerys song, but make it “Whur Mah Wolves At” starring the Stark boys. :P

  345. Nic
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    Anne,

    Couldn’t agree more.

    Bran is one of the central characters in the novels but so far this season he has been on the periphery. Such a shame.

  346. Turri
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

    If you add up the screentime the different storylines have taken up until now and consider what’s still to come, you can see a clear logic behind it:
    - 25 to 30 minutes for the minor plots (Bran, Theon, Sam, Stannis)
    - 45 to 55 minutes for the major plots (Robb, Dany, Arya, Jon, Jaime)
    - 130 to 150 minutes for the main plot in KL

    Before you criticize this or that story getting getting too much or too little time, you should think about what exactly you would change about this concept. I think it’s pretty solid.

  347. Grey Wind
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    Hilary,

    Grey Wind was in the background when Robb executed Lord Karstark

  348. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    armsbendback,
    All good points. The Boy is building his control over Theon scene by scene. The purpose of that scene was to implant deep into Theon’s mind that no matter what he does, no matter how instinctual and pleasurable an urge may be (let’s face it, sex is as instinctual as it gets), that Theon must first and foremost think of what his “master” wants from him and to fear what his “master” might do if Theon displeases him. Except he never knows what pleases or displeases The Boy. It would force anyone to pause and never, ever act on their impulses as a normal person would. It would cause them to even neglect self care for fear it would displease their “master”. They won’t eat, bathe, fuck….nothing without it being given to them by their master’s permission. With that kind of torture the victim cannot enjoy anything, even if it is given to them by their master because the master’s seemingly capricious behavior makes them think that they never know if he’ll give it and then take it away. Or hurt the victim for having enjoyed the very thing he was supposed to enjoy.

    This kind of back and forth, seeming capriciousness, and constant fear is what is known in counseling as “crazy making” behavior. You see this kind of emotional abuse against kids in dysfunctional families. Of course, what we’re seeing on the screen is that to the nth degree.

    Ultimately the victim will trust no one and nothing EXCEPT the cruelty he receives from his torturer. That will be the only consistent thing in his life.

  349. Kroket
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

    Brock Russell: ing what he can with it. Otherwise why is he sticking around instead of running away with Shae? I mean he had a point when he asked what he’d do if they ran away – “juggle” seemed like a bitter reference to the limited options of dwarves – but this was in the same scene where he gave Shae a necklace that could buy a ship. If he was going to leave, he could take wealth with him. Of course Tywin might track him down (having waaaay more gold to do so than Tyrion would have to evade those seeking him), but I think we know a thing or two from the books about how hard it is to find the right dwarf after you put a bounty on his head. Of course, Tyrion doesn’t know this.

    Just to hop back to the Tyrion-Sansa marriage for a bit, why wasn’t he given the “option” to have another Lannister marry her if he preferred? To my mind, that was the factor from the books that made me not blame him for marrying her: he knew that if he didn’t, another Lannister might not treat her as well. But maybe he’ll make this offer next episode, on his own initiative rather than because Twyin gave him the option? I wouldn’t bet on it, though. It’s unfortunate because, frankly, it makes him seem like he’s showing much less reluctance than he did in the books. And yes, I do remember him thinking of how beautiful and sweet-smelling Sansa is in the books when the offer comes up, but that was partially in the context of thinking that such a girl would hate marrying him.

    Honestly liked pretty much everything. Anything that I blather on and on about is not hated by me, just intriguing and seen as worthy

    Interesting thoughts! It would be weird to announce Charlotte if she was just a ‘random whore’ true!

    Personally i couldn’t help but think what a fine Jeyne Westerling Charlotte would have made!

  350. Kurinton
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    BAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Totes!! Right there with ya!

    Richard:
    Seriously… nobody got the Castle Anthrax from Monty Python & The Holy Grail vibe from Theon and the two woman? Maybe I’m the only one here over 35 years old and showing my age….

  351. Hohawl
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger: For those that are saying the Theon stuff didn’t happen in the books:

    It is not happen in the books, but for TVshow it is more easy to implement the missing cock than missing fingers.
    Tyrion`s nose is another example.

  352. RhymeswithWeak
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    Seriously,

    People are so desensitized now that I dont think they could grasp Theon’s complete mental breakdown with a couple of scenes in a box, hungry and losing a finger….
    Prisoners always spend time in the hole or solitary confinement…and when they are the heroes of the show they come out stronger and with more resolve….
    Theon was/is messed up by the bastard…but he’s alive cause he’s needed to *legitimize* Jeyne Poole as Arya Stark….and he knows the truth about the boys.

  353. Joey
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    GRRM giving us a lot of info this episode.
    Telisas will not die. Hier to the north. thats why blackfish has Jeyne/Telisa. dont understand Telisa hate. WAY better character then Jeyne, and Chaplins a good actress.
    If your a book reader and you think Theon still has his member you do not pay attention to well. Sweet summer child.
    And the debate of whether Marg was a virgin or not is over.
    Deffinetly was a week episode for george compared to baelor and blackwater. The bear pit scene was a little disapointing.
    on a positive not David Nutter is Directing the final two episodes. and his two episode last season were amazing. RW is gonna be visually awsome. and undead cat

  354. DH87
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    barak: They could’ve made the scene a bit more thrilling with some clever editing, but what with the bear obviously not being a ferocious, wild beast, it wouldn’t have been heart-stoppingly thrilling anyway.

    Agree. It’s unfair to expect the wild animal work on a TV show to match what we’re used to in feature films (which often buy stock footage of animal attack behavior in the wild to “splice in”). D&D may have underestimated the amount of time and $ needed (multiple days/weeks to account for weather variation, etc.) to get enough usable footage for an editor to work with. The handler was dressed up as GC, so that limited some camera angles.

    Even trained domestic animals are not machines. The GOT kids said there had been much more dire wolf footage shot than was usable in Season I because the pups weren’t trained well enough to provide usable takes. D&D may have made the hard choice to spend the $ elsewhere. I think most of us would rather have spectacular dragons doing their thing all season than a bear pit scene that rivaled one in a horror movie.

  355. fuelpagan
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    Anne,

    Bran’s arc is suffering, but I’d hardly place the blame of them wanting to include Theon’s degradation. With ADwD and AFfC occurring at the same time, you can’t push that storyline off forever. Chronologically by the end of next season Theon should be in full blown Reek mode.

    There is a fundamental problem with the Bran storyline. How do you introduce Bran’s abilities with magic without revealing all the secrets the story isn’t ready to let the viewer know of yet. To do this in the form you suggests, while I’ll admit is a cool idea, would create this same problem. GRRM has complained about writing Bran for this very reason. It’s a tricky balance of showing Bran’s skills increase while still limiting his ability to keep certain surprises hidden.

    It is important to show why the party splits up or the viewer will be left scratching their heads on why they didn’t stick together. If they don’t give a reason now, they’ll have to later.

    To be honest, what actually happens in the Bran chapters isn’t all that exciting in the book either. Meera is hunting or cooking, Bran is sitting around thinking or warging. Jojen is dreaming or talking and Hodor says Hodor. The dreams are always vague and full of mystery as to their meaning and I think that is true for show as well. What I love about the Bran chapters are the stories they tell. Unfortunately the story in this one was about something the audience already knew. While it was necessary as the facts were unknown to this particular group, had their been something extra that deepened the mystery and not just more character background, maybe it wouldn’t have come acrossed flat and boring. Hopefully if they tell other stories about the Rat Cook or Knight of the Laughing Tree it will be more interesting.

    What Bran’s story needs is agency driving them somewhere. This idea of going to Castle Black to meet up with Jon Snow just isn’t working well because everyone knows that is a dead end. I hope once a reason is given to go somewhere else instead, that may be helped. At least he will be going somewhere that audience already knows is a waste of time.

  356. lord manteezy
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    Jared:
    A transitional episode, but a very good one. Maybe it was more stylistically disjointed than last week (and didn’t have a monologue at the end to tie things together) but it was exceptionally well-directed (Michelle McLaren is one of the best in the business) and there was so much good stuff.

    The bear pit scene was amazing. Props to Little Bart – he earned that solo credit! That scene one of my Top 5 favorite moments in all 5 books, and they pulled it off. My only issue was that they didn’t have “I only rescue maidens” line, butthere is still time for that exchange to happen (it might not have quite as much impact with more distance, but oh well). Jaime and Brienne have at least three episodes worth of ‘get to know each other better’ conversations before they reach King’s Landing, unless the writers invent something else for them to do. And Jaime did tell Bolton to give his regards to Robb Stark, so I’m a happy guy.

    One more Jaime and Brienne note: The scene where they say goodbye to each other was great. Both actors excelled at making their few words count and letting the silence do the rest.

    The Jon material really stood out this week as well. The dialogue sparked (loved that “All men must die, but first we’ll live” made it into the show’), and Kit Harrington and Rose Leslie are really starting to play well off of one another. Too bad it can’t last

    Tywin ‘counseling’ Joffrey was gold. I loved the moment where Tywin paused as he entered the throne room, and the guards behind him immediately knew that he meant ‘don’t take another step or else’. That’s power.

    So Talisa’s pregnant! Somebody check Westeros. org – I think a decent number of purists may have spontaneously combusted when they heard that bit of news. Of course she could be lying, but I don’t subscribe to the ‘Talisa is a spy’ theory, so I’ll take it at face value for now. I still think Theory 1 is the most likely, but 3 could still be in play as it looks like the Blackfish is going to the Wedding – maybe he’ll find a way get her to safety (I seriously doubt D&D would kill him off at the RW, or let him be taken prisoner like Edmure). We’ll find out in two weeks. One question to consider though: does this news mean that Robb will not have the discussion with Catelyn about naming Jon his heir, or will he still go through with it as a backup plan?.

  357. Selmy
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    This episode was better than last week for me. An episode like this makes you realize Blackwater really did take a huge part of season 2 budget. Let’s see.

    The Queen across the Water – Best scene of the episode. Lines straight from the books, three fierce dragons, hot Daenerys, how could it have been better? Her scenes are the highlight of season 3 this far. More interesting than ever.

    The King in the North – We all know why the Robb and Talissa scene was there. But what we don’t know is the future of Robb Stark’s child. The next three episodes will shape the future of the series and I, for one, can’t wait.

    The King on the Iron throne – A little less focus on King’s Landing this week but hey, I’m okay with it. Sansa is stupid, Margeary is a little slutty. Best scene was Tywin and Joffrey. ” I have to climb stairs??”. And a little Daenerys info, thanks to George.

    The King in the Narrow Sea – Amazing shot of sunken ships and the Red Keep. I liked the reveal of Gendry’s father passing King’s Landing. It helps the casual viewer tie those seperated storylines together.

    The Wall – I think the ones complaining about Jon and Ygritte’s relationship poorly handled will be satisfied. George took care of it. They actually had quite of screentime this episode, not that I am against it. ”You won’t win, I know it” was probably my favourite part. Straight from the book.

    Jaime and Brienne – George’s writing and NCW and Gwen’s performences were really good, really good. Felt like I was reading the book. Nothing seemed forced in their goodbyes, Brienne thinking about their promise to Catelyn before her life. Qyburn is Qyburn. The bear pit was well done, but the only bad actor was… the bear. While watching him move all I could think was; ” mark 1, claw slap, roar, roar again, mark 2”. Let me know if I was the only one.

    Word of the end – A good episode for me, things moving forward. I was quite certain Sam the Slayer would happen this episode, but it seems the ”older gentleman” isn’t Colhands. See you in season 4.

    The only things I didn’t like: mean whores, not enough Arya, no dreams.

  358. Hilary
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard,

    Grey Wind,

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh,

    Ah, I forgot about the Karstark scene. I guess I’ll have to give them that one, but I still think the lack of direwolf action (especially Grey Wind, given what is to come at the RW) is quite frustrating. The connection between the Starks and their direwolves is very important. I mean, Jon doesn’t seem at all concerned about Ghost’s whereabouts and Grey Wind might as well be a cart horse for all the attention he gets from Robb.

  359. imlad
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    As to Theon’s junk being removed, it was made pretty damned clear in the books that the Greyjoy whelp was castrated, and it was GRRM himself who wrote this episode, so anyone that thinks this was something thrown into the show that has no basis in the books, then you need to turn your brain on and go back and reread aDwD again, since apparently you missed it.

    Theon’s arc this season IMO is one of the best, as in a way it is the reverse of Jaime’s arc. The Lackhand’s story arc this season is about humanizing him, while Theon’s shows how Ramsay goes about stripping away Theon’s humanity and personality. All of this is necessary for the audience to see (if the non-readers are to have a clue as to who Reek is), and to be honest, I don’t even think that the torture we have seen onscreen has been all that gruesome. Yes, Alfie Allen’s screaming and crying out is hard to hear, but it is no worse than some of the shit you see on other shows, and hardly any blood seen as well.

    With all the talk about Theon’s genitals on this thread, and on nudity in general on all the threads on this site, I just have to get something off my chest:

    I’m getting really tired of the misandrist attitudes of the women who complain about the so called “disparity in nudity” on this show. We have seen more of Alfie Allen’s penis than we have of all the vaginas on this show (when there is a shot incorporating a woman’s genitals all you really see is how much pubic hair the actress does or does not have, no labia or other female genital parts seen at all; whereas Allen’s penis is flopping around for all to see, just as with the prosthetic that Nairn wore for Hodor’s nude scene). We’ve seen as many if not more male nipples on this show than female nipples; just because a nipple sits atop highly developed mammary glands instead of highly developed pectoral muscles does NOT negate the fact that we are seeing nipples. We’ve seen basically the same number of male buttocks as female buttocks. So what the hell is the complaint?

    I cannot help but think of all the articles I’ve seen online in the past year complaining about how some men have been treating women who do the whole cos-play thing at conventions, tons of whining and moaning about how the men keep staring, and sometimes pat or grab asses. Well, it isn’t just men who do this, women do as well. One of my friends, a rather large well built muscular dude, has been “assaulted” by many women over the years whenever he goes without a shirt (he’s also done some cos-play, Khal Drogo and Rocky Horror being his favorites). He does not ask them to caress his well muscled chest, or to pat his bottom, nor does he encourage it. But they do it anyways, and seem to think it is fine, because “guys always want to be fondled by women” (I’ve actually heard this said). The real irony is, he is gay and does not want the female attention.

    The problem is not that Game of Thrones has too many women going topless, it is that the real world has too few women going topless (at least in this backwards, repressively Victorian western society we inhabit). The female nipple is no more or less special than the male nipple, and a woman’s breast is not something that should be hidden away (hiding them away all the time is what has caused the Western male’s obsession with them in the first place after all).

    So if your biggest complaint about this show is that it is misogynistic in the way it handles nudity, please, just STFU, pull your head out of your ass and take a look at reality instead of your “men are bad sexist assholes” fantasy you and the other uber-feminists (aka misandrist sexists) have deluded yourselves into believing.

    Seriously, I think some of you people just bitch and complain because you like to bitch and complain, and have to find something, anything, to do it about, just so you can feel important by seeing your name online.

  360. fuelpagan
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard,

    It has been a while since I read those chapters, but I did get the sense that “something” happened down there on Theon. Just wasn’t sure if it had been cut or simply flayed. Seems even crueler to just rip the skin off where you’d still have it, but would be too painful to try and use it.

  361. Anne
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    Yes, you make good points. I am missing all the good (back) storytelling from The Reeds, and Bran’s relating of the stories Old Nan told him. But I totally get it with all that stuff, too much, too much, for TV adaptation.

    All I am asking that the show at least catch up with the books regarding his magically abilities at this time. technically, shouldn’t we be getting The Queenscrown/and Nightfort stuff soon? Next episode? And then the showrunners will have no choice but show the magical stuff, (warging into Summer, having enough of a Consciousness to recognize Jon as he is a wolf and then problem solving as a wolfand intervening in his situation and saving Jon, and then also starting his warging into Hodor. ) By then it’s going to be an assault on people’s senses, “whoa, where’s all this coming from, there’s not been so much explanation so far!”

    and the group splitting-honestly, maybe three sentences would be needed to explain this, and it could make perfect sense, not three scenes. (One of the Reeds “I think it would be safer to split the princes up.” Osha- “good, because nothing will make me go beyond that wall again, i came over to this side to escape the evil on the other side.”)

    I don’t think Bran is suffering just because of Theon’s arc…there are a couple of arcs that have some wheel spinning that are taking away from Bran.

  362. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    That’s how I took it too…
    Something certainly happened to Little Theon, but I was note sure what.

    That scene did not surprise me so much I guess when compared to Talisa saying she was preggars. That was one theory I was 50/ 50 about in the books and really had no idea personally.

    However, I’m not sure that the TV scene is a game-changer as far as the books go honestly. First it could be something done on the series and not in the books as many things are. Second, it could be a red herring as others have pointed out. And third, even if true on the series, it could be made a moot point if Talisa does not survive the RW.

    I’m holding off judgment and theorizing until after Episode 9.

  363. mariamb18
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    Hilary:

    Ah, I forgot about the Karstark scene. I guess I’ll have to give them that one, but I still think the lack of direwolf action (especially Grey Wind, given what is to come at the RW) is quite frustrating. The connection between the Starks and their direwolves is very important. I mean, Jon doesn’t seem at all concerned about Ghost’s whereabouts and Grey Wind might as well be a cart horse for all the attention he gets from Robb.

    Agree about the lack of direwolves. Grey Wind, in particular, needed more focus this season. His relationship to Robb is important, knowing what is to come.

    The connection between the Stark children and their direwolves was a fascinating part of the books for me.

    Guess the CGI budget is being spent on dragons this season…which, by the way, were awesome last night.

  364. Michael K
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    Stone Cold Bastard: Do you even read? Can you even comprehend what Martin wrote? Why would a man, without genitalia, feel lust and want to have sex with a spear wife? That makes no sense whatsoever, and Martin isn’t that stupid to make such a mistake. Theon would’ve been so traumatized after that, that the last thing he’d ever feel or want is lust. So, either Martin screwed up, or Theon isn’t castrated in the books but is in the show.

    Getting castrated does not mean a guy can’t or won’t feel lust. Look a John Holmes, a real man who had a his real junk cut off by his wife and had a fake one made and he went on to make adult films.

    Being castrated may keep someone from performing the act, depending on how the castrating is done, but it does not stop them from feeling the desire for it.

  365. TheWoodOfTheMorning
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    DjWeideman:
    Ryan,

    Tywin/Joffrey – How awesome is Charles Dance in this role? This scene was almost as good as his scene with Diana Rigg last week. That little smirk as he walks away from Joffrey is priceless.

    Only the viewers know of that smirk because Tywin Lannister never smiles.

  366. Anne
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    plus, we don’t need all of the crow dreams-all we need right now is one, just one, condensed, with all the good bits taken from the various dreams, to help people better understand.

    that’s all. :)

  367. Shmurb
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    This is totally random, but I just had an idea how the Jon/Wildlings stuff might play out, with the earlier mentioned interview with Ciaran Hinds where he said he has a reaction shot to Tormund’s group returning. Some people have been debating how this will work with the plot, but I have an idea, because who doesn’t love some rampant groundless speculation! So:

    Orell dies by the end of this season, leaves them without a way to contact Mance and tell him Jon has betrayed them. So maybe, just maybe, Tormund goes back over to Mance to report while Ygritte leads the raid on Castle Black sometime near the beginning of next season. Still seems a bit contrived, but it would allow everything we know from background info and the books to play out properly.

  368. Doug
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    I’m not feeling this season at all.

    This should have been the best season too. I am finding myself looking at the clock more weeks than not this season, and that has NEVER happened before.

    I don’t know what it is either. But there are spurts this year that are boring me.

  369. sunspear
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    Another slowish episode, but nothing really bad about it. Episodes 6 & 7 this year are the episodes 7 & 8 last year.

    I would like to say that I agree with the people saying that the amount of screen time they are giving Theon is appropriate. They need more than three scenes to establish how he gets turned into Reek.

  370. Shmurb
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    Michael K,

    There’s been shots of Rickon in nearly every scene featuring the Bran group. He even has a couple of lines.

  371. Red Hound
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    This episode was…weird for me. I believe it revealed too many secrets that were supposed to be confirmed in the next two books. The fact that this episode was written by GRRM makes it incredibly confusing. Why confirm things that people have been wondering about for years before you publish the next two books? I mean, for one side, I’m happy because it kinda confirms what I thought (Sorry Theon), but some others…

    I think no one has talked about Margaery hesitation after her “women are hard to please” line. This was a direct nod to her affair with her handmaidens in the books. I thought it was a bit ambiguous and that it was not exactly like that. This confirms it is like that.

    Also, I really liked the chain that Tyrion gave to Shae. Sorry Shae, but I’ll enjoy the next time that this chain appears on screen. No personal offense, but Tyrion is not a hero like portrayed in the show and he needs to do some not-so-good things time to time.

    Talisa being pregnant had me shouting WHAT?! WHAT?! while looking at the ceilling. This is HUGE. It’s a big spoiler or what will happen to Jeyne Westerling in the incoming books. I hope Talisa dies, because I really dislike the idea of Jeyne being important.

    Varys welcomes Theon to the club. The book was quite ambiguous on the matter, but he has some lines that, in my opinion, revealed that he had been castrated and possibly raped as well. A hook knife was used, exactly what Varys talked about a few episodes ago while narrating his castration.

    The bear pit fight was very disappointing, it lacked any tension or heroism. The weakest part of the episode, sadly. But good thing that it ended with that certain song…

    I enjoyed the episode, but I got very distracted by the revealing of certain things. Also, the 8th episode preview got me pumped.

  372. Juego de Tronos
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    Very nice!

  373. Reverse Nielsen
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    Steelshanks was actually wearing steel greaves! That pleased me quite a bit. He seems to be written like his book counterpart: gruff, dutiful, somewhat detached, and the actor did a good job.

  374. Sleeve003
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    I liked the kingslayer telling Roose to send the Lannisters regards.

  375. dogs
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    I read through all the above comments, looking for some juicy speculation about Talisa. There was the one comment referencing a post on the blog by the guy who made up the Valyrian Language, about Talisa’s letter. That is a perplexing post, and it was a perplexing scene. I was thinking during the scene – well, this is a weird and roundabout way to reveal that Talisa is pregnant, talk about writing letters to her mom, and THEN mention her pregnancy. For some reason, the scene deliberately drew attention to the fact that she was writing a letter.

    EDIT: to those who freak out about Talisa being pregnant being a spoiler for the book, I believe the show’s plotline with Talisa has basically distanced itself enough from the book that it is something completely different, the situation and character are completely different now, and so it doesn’t automatically spoil anything with Jeyne.

    My question then would be, If Talisa is a spy, does Tywin know how to read Valyrian if Talisa is writing letters in Valyrian?

    I was kind of hoping that Talisa would replace the Fake Arya plot, since that would be the easiest route for the writers, and the most economic way of using characters. But I feel like if Talisa is a spy, then, basically every single person Robb knows would have betrayed him or gone behind his back in some way. Theon, Karstark, Bolton, his mom, Edmure who screwed up the mill thing, and now his wife. Like, jeeze, poor Robb.
    I still think that in the next episode there will be some conversation between Robb and Catelyn (seen in the trailers where Robb says “Take his home, take his gold, take his power” and Catelyn says “Show them how it feels to lose what they love”) where Robb decides on Jon as his heir, and maybe sends the Blackfish off to Greywater Watch or something.

  376. TheWoodOfTheMorning
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    What is everyone’s problem with this episode? You all sound like a bunch of spoiled brats. “I wanted the bear pit scene to be longer so i thought this episode sucked.” Give me a break. This season has been extremely solid. I really liked this episode. The Blackwater aftermath looked really cool and I always love Red Keep shots from afar. That gargantuan castle is incredible.
    There was a lot more good than bad in this episode and the bad wasn’t really content driven, more wishful thinking (such as the aforementioned bear pit).
    Also, I don’t care what non-book readers think about Theon’s scenes. It’s a mystery for non-readers. Yes, readers know what’s going to happen there, but that’s because we’ve read the books! Non-readers chose to be non-readers so they’ll obviously be in the dark about a few things. They’ll find out soon enough. Impatience doesn’t work with ASOIAF. Usually there are hundreds of pages between one character’s chapters. Plus, I love that they’re showing us how Ramsay breaks Theon. If he were to show up later in the series completely submissive and broken to an unknown character the non-readers would be even more confused.

  377. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    TheWoodOfTheMorning,

    Were readers confused by Ser Barristan Selmy showing up a season later? No.
    Viewers will not be confused when characters are brought back a year (or more) later if it is handled well. We did not need to see every step of Theon’s tture and devolution into Reek.

    I wager to say that D&D themselves did not even feel the NEED to have this much of Theon in the season, but much like they thought Esme Bianco nailed her character Ros and wrote more scenes for the role, they love how Alfie Allen has nailed Theon (as do I) and wanted to write more scenes for him.

    I myself have gone from thinking the Theon scenes were needed, but uncomfortable to thinking they are gratuitous and redundant scenes that I literally forward through on re-watch.

    The pay off will most likely not be there at the expected levels for non-readers when all is revealed. The fact that “Boy” is the Bastard of Bolton will mean far less to most non-readers (if they recall who Roose Bolton is even) and the fact that “Boy” is sadistic and crazy was well known from the first two scenes. Even many book-readers do not think it is worth the pay off at this point.

  378. Ed
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    Whatever. I don’t understand why people continue to “explain” why it wasn’t that exciting. It doesn’t really matter what the reason is, does it?

    It kinda is what it is.

    DH87: Agree. It’s unfair to expect the wild animal work on a TV show to match what we’re used to in feature films (which often buy stock footage of animal attack behavior in the wild to “splice in”). D&D may have underestimated the amount of time and $ needed (multiple days/weeks to account for weather variation, etc.)to get enough usable footage for an editor to work with. The handler was dressed up as GC, so that limited some camera angles.

    Even trained domestic animals are not machines. The GOT kids said there had been much more dire wolf footage shot than was usable in Season I because the pups weren’t trained well enough to provide usable takes. D&D may have made the hard choice to spend the $ elsewhere. I think most of us would rather have spectacular dragons doing their thing all season than a bear pit scene that rivaled one in a horror movie.

  379. Joh
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    After rewatching the episodes very closely, I am convinced that Talisa and Jeyne W. are not intended to be the same character at all.

    If you are looking to the books to find out where this Talisa storyline is going, they will throw you off track.

  380. Clob
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    mariamb18,

    Mentions and actions by the direwolves have become less and less as the books progress. At the shows current point in the books there are only two even present, Grey Wind and Summer. Shaggydog has left with Rickon, Ghost is off in the wild until towards the end of ASoS, Grey Wind does nothing in ASoS except balk at entering the Twins and a mention or two. Really the only major thing any of them do is Summer attacking the wildlings, which we’ve not come to yet. Bran warging Summer may be a little behind but I imagine they’ll get there. Nymeria making a ‘cameo’ at the end by pulling Cat from the river is one other thing that still may happen. It’s not all that surprising to me that they aren’t forcing them into scenes. People like to remember them as being major ‘characters’ but aside from the things I mentioned and what’s already been shown is just about it through the first three books and they don’t do all that much in four and five either (as there continues to be just two “present”).

  381. Ed
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

    Anybody else just wanna backhand Ygritte?? Good God b&^%$, can you just ONCE talk to Jon one-to-one instead of giving him some smart-ass retort, or threatening him? I don’t know what’s supposed to be cute about her constantly calling him out or talking down to him. She *really* grates on me.

    “You know nothing Jon Snow…”
    “My Daddy was fancy Lord and I lived in a tower that touched the clouds…”
    “You’re afraid…”
    “I’m Jon Snow, I’ve killed dead men and Quorin Halfhand but I’m scared of naken guhl’s!!”

  382. mariamb18
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    Clob,

    You may be correct about the presence of the direwolves in the books. Perhaps its a personal preference on my part…I like the connection that the Stark kids have with their direwolves and would like to see more of them. But I understand that resources and time are precious so something has to go.

    My main concern is about the Robb/Grey Wind relationship. At this point in the books, we knew that Grey Wind did not like some of the Westerlings. And also that Catelyn was disturbed that Robb was distancing himself from his wolf because of it. We know how that worked out. So, would I have liked to see Robb interact with Grey Wind more this season? Yes but its certainly not a deal-breaker for me.

    As book readers, we bring our own likes/dislikes and opinions with us when watching the show. Sometimes that creates dissatisfaction with certain storylines. Regardless, none of it has lessened my enthusiasm for this show.

  383. Carne
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    I hope we see Gorman and Rast again, but going by the episode 8 preview that doesn’t look likely :/ Unless they show up after Sam slays the WW and get killed by Coldhands.

  384. Joh
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    Ed,

    Uh, no – guess I am comfortable enough in myself that I don’t feel the urge to commit violence when subjected to a little socially-awkward teasing by a teenage girl.

    Honestly, I think that all of the teasing of Jon Snow on Ygritte’s part is basically a show of her own insecurity. She’s such an uneducated hick that seeing a windmill is like seeing the space station or something. She watched Ned Stark’s son cut down Qhorin Halfhand, and meet with Mance Rayder, and knows that he is probably a spy for the enemy.

    She wants to approach him romantically, but finds him extremely intimidating. So she has to find some way to bring him down a notch, to make him seem not so cool and knowledgeable and dangerous.

    “You know nothing, Jon Snuuuh” is basically the equivalent of pulling his hair and pushing him on the playground to get his attention.

    Ygritte is obviously infatuated with him, but she is too immature and her pockets are too full of spaghetti to know what to do about it (to use a bit of chan board phrasing)

  385. anne
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    And more concerning dire wolves….is it so hard to show Summer and Shaggydog in the background of these last two scenes? They could be lounging and yawning, scratching them selves or licking their balls for all I care, just as long as they’re present.

  386. Coltaine777
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    I liked the ep…especially Dany scene…

  387. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    Carne,

    Agreed!
    Seems like such a waste to cast Gorman and then give him like 3 lines in 2 episodes!

    Even if he turns up in the Sam The Slayer scene, will he be himself or a wight? XD

  388. dizzy
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    I think what they are doing with the Theon scenes are genius. All I hear from newbies is that they want to move on from the Theon story line. You can’t move on from torture. Ramsay Snow is so evil he’s torturing the viewers of the show. Best bad guy of the series IMO. Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m glad they cut away from the cut away.

  389. DH87
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    Ed: It kinda is what it is.

    On that basis, 99 percent of the posts on this site could be eliminated. :)

  390. Baihu1983
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    Not sure why people are using tags in the book spoiler section?

    Anyways I’m guessing this means Blackfish will take Umbers role during the wedding? And is Talisa going to it?? Felt like Robb was going to send her elsewhere during the scene.
    If she goes to the wedding i cant see how she will be kept alive? And if shes not then has George just given us all a nice book spoiler?

    The Danny scene was cool.

    I don’t mind the Theon stuff but i sort of feel like that’s enough for this season? Save the rest till next before moving onto the Reek stuff in season 5.

    This for me was the best look at the Jon/Ygritte relationship.

    The bear scene was well done.

  391. AA
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    Anne,

    Bran had 4 chapters in ASOS and 3 in ADWD – There is a lot of time to get to the scenes and developments you are talking about.

  392. b'uckles
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    Mark,

    That’s what I thought.

  393. Ed
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    Oh Joh, settle down, will ya. Just for the record, before you go contacting authorities, I don’t *reeeallly* want to commit violence on women. Sigh…

    By the way, what’s chan board phrasing?

    Joh:
    Ed,

    Uh, no – guess I am comfortable enough in myself that I don’t feel the urge to commit violence when subjected to a little socially-awkward teasing by a teenage girl.

    …and her pockets are too full of spaghetti to know what to do about it (to use a bit of chan board phrasing)

  394. Ed
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    (nodding in agreement) Yeah, that’s a fair point.

    DH87: On that basis, 99 percent of the posts on this site could be eliminated. :)

  395. Rafael Moreira
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    About the Osha scene, they are creating something for Osha to split up with Rickon to the south, understandable i believe.
    Guys, what about Robb’s son? We’ve never got a confirmation in the books that his wife got pregnant, though i read some speculations about it and i do believe she had a child.

  396. Michel
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    I’m very curious about Yara appearance this season. For sure not in episode 9, I guess not in the next episode too, since we don’t see her in the preview and there is much storyline to tell (pre-RW/Queenscrown/Leeches/Tyrion wedding/Arya and Hound/Jaime and Brienne/Dany and the sellsword companies/probably the Eyrie)..so I gues she will make in the season finale, I wonder how..I have 2 theories:

    1) Funeral for Balon (cold open for “Mysha”)
    2) She reuning some Greyjoy men to rescue Theon and it would be a plot for next season (a deviation from the books)

  397. Joh
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    Ed,

    A lot of online discussion and image boards (like 2chan, 4chan, etc) have their own lingo. To say that someone has pockets full of spaghetti is basically a way of saying that they are embarassing themselves in public. Like Ygritte. Who could not be more obvious if she tried.

    And sorry to sound so harsh. I agree that the character is a PITA, and probably meant to be so.

    Spending so many years on Westeros.org has made me a little defensive of the female characters and the actresses who play them. They get an extraordinary amount of vitrolic hate directed at them on those forums, that has nothing to do with reasonable criticism.

  398. JamesL
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    Ed,

    I agree, people say Ygirtte is annoying in the books but I think this show version is much worse. Ygirtte had a much nicer and more feminine personality in the books and the way she talked to Jon was much different. I hate the way their relationship in the show is Ygritte constantly teasing, threatening, and talking down to Jon.

  399. JamesL
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    dizzy,

    Huh? Every nonreader seems to hate Theons storyline. I haven’t come across one that is interested in it at all.

  400. argilac's antler
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

    Hohawl: It is not happen in the books, but for TVshow it is more easy to implement the missing cock than missing fingers.
    Tyrion`s nose is another example.

    And Renly and Loras weren’t gay in the books either.

  401. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    Michel,

    Okay, you lost me with “Mysha”. What does that have to do with Balon? I thought that was a Meerenese name for Dany.

  402. argilac's antler
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ:
    Michel,

    Okay, you lost me with “Mysha”.What does that have to do with Balon? I thought that was a Meerenese name for Dany.

    He means the opening scene for the episode titled “Mysha”, which is the season finale.

  403. sunspear
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    Darquemode:
    TheWoodOfTheMorning,

    Were readers confused by Ser Barristan Selmy showing up a season later? No.
    Viewers will not be confused when characters are brought back a year (or more) later if it is handled well. We did not need to see every step of Theon’s tture and devolution into Reek.

    Bad example. Barristan Selmy was the same person he was when he left the show, and he is nowhere near as important a character as Theon. You can’t just have a character turn up after having gone missing for two seasons, have his personality change completely, and not have the viewers think it’s ridiculous.

    Besides, almost everything they’ve done with Theon so far has been book canon. His escape fake-out is substitution for Kyra, and they needed the rest of the seasons to show the torture told in flashbacks in the books.

  404. Arthur
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    Man… After just watching this episode again, for the third time, TV Dany is really amazing to see…

    I love the camera angles showing her confident badass sinister smirks as that embassy guy is talking to her.

    I love how her dress is so elegantly sexy and see through.

    I love how she talks with confidence to her Bear and Selmy.

    I love how Drogon is so fierce looking but goes and always seeks Dany’s affection and approval.

    Like I said previously, book Dany was always my favorite and I always was in awe of how badass Dany grows up to be… Now TV Dany has me feeling that same awe.

    IMO season 3 has been the season of Dany.

    IMO Dany’s storyline has been, by far, the best of this season with the Jaime/Brienne right behind it.

    I hope D&D, Cogman and the rest of the writers keep Dany’s storyline going with this kind of vigor.

    I hope Emilia keeps channeling her inner Targaryen Khaleesi to keep bringing us these awesome Dany scenes…

    Okay, rant over…

  405. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

    argilac’s antler,

    ok, thanks

  406. Lady Wolf
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    No, you were not the only one hoping to see Locke pushed into the Bear pit. :) That would have been a wonderful way to end that episode. But knowing what he has in store for him once Jaime returns to KL should scare him enough.

    I also agree that the monologue by Osha was unnecessary.

    And lastly, poor Theon. =/

  407. Joh
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    sunspear,

    sunspear: Bad example. Barristan Selmy was the same person he was when he left the show, and he is nowhere near as important a character as Theon.

    he is nowhere near as important a character as Theon.

    wait…what?

    Have your read ADWD yet?

    Not to minimize Theon’s storyline, but…

    Barristan Selmy was a major POV character in ADWD. He leads a military coup of Mereen after Dany’s disappearance. Not to mention, he and maybe Howland Reed are the only people living who know the truth of what went down during Robert’s rebellion.

  408. outdoorcats
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    The point of Osha’s story? I’m pretty sure it’s a set-up for her inevitable split with the team along with Rickon. In the books, she splits to keep the Starks safe from their enemies in the North, but the showrunners don’t want to spill the beans on the whole Bolton thing just yet, so they need another reason for Osha to split. So they made it Osha’s crippling fear of going back over to the other side of the wall. Makes sense to me – also, I LOVED the monologue – it was a great bit of character development for Osha

    As for the pace, I felt they were re-establishing some really important things for casual viewers who get lost in the thick of some of the plots – Bronn stating in a bluntly exposition-y manner how Sansa is the key to the north if Tyrion plants his heir in her, for example. Also this episode was very Jon heavy, making up a little for the lack of screentime we’ve had of him this (and last) season. He’s starting to feel like Jon Snow now, and his inner conflict is becoming clearer. Also, we got to see Kit Harington pull off some really good acting. And Ygritte be stunned at a windmill. XD

  409. Stacia
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    I was wondering about something. I don’t recall in the books Theon telling Ramsay that he didn’t kill Bran and Rickon. Although, only limited information about what happened to Theon was revealed.

    If Ramsay knows that Bran and Rickon survived the sacking of Winterfell, then there’s perhaps less motivation for him to marry Fake Arya, since the Boltons know the two boys could be alive. A pregnant Talisa replacing Fake Arya would make sense since her son could trump any of Robb’s siblings as heir to the North. The baby may not even survive. It could be a superfluous plot in the show that doesn’t impact future storylines in the book, but is used to give Ramsay a bigger part and keep Oona around for the required amount of nudity.

  410. Darquemode
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    sunspear,

    Hmmm, in the series they are on different levels granted, but it’s just not in any way a difficult concept to understand. Thon gets captured an tortured (one episode), Theon gets tortured for a long time (one episode to remind viewers), Theon is still tortured and comes out a broken man going by the name Reek (one more episode the next season). The end.

    Plus I never said I wanted NO Theon scenes, just less since it redundant after a couple episodes.

  411. anne
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    AA,
    well most of what I speak of was in book 2 so I don’t know how you can say there’s plenty of time when we’re actually a whole book behind in explaining his abilities.

  412. Hawk
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    Joh,

    Barristan was a last-minute throw-in POV so that GRRM could resolve the Meereenese knot…he needed a POV character to carry the plot forward for a bit in Meereen after Dany departed and Quentyn died…Barristan was the last POV added for ADWD…

    GRRM told me this himself at Mysterious Galaxy in San Diego in 2011, as I asked him a question about whether or not he had predetermined all of his POV’s before he started writing the series…so, you can gather, Barristan is not a major POV character, and once he divulges a bit more of the information rattling about in his old head he’s destined to be killed off, probably pretty quickly in the next book, as his storyline is about to merge w/ Tyrion’s and Victarion’s.

  413. blakec
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    I think Talisa will not go all the way with Robb to the RW. Her presence would be a distraction and a reminder of Robb’s breaking of his oath. So, I think she will turn back before they get to the Twins.

  414. Pau Soriano
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Joh:
    Ed,

    Uh, no – guess I am comfortable enough in myself that I don’t feel the urge to commit violence when subjected to a little socially-awkward teasing by a teenage girl.

    Nailed there..

  415. Joh
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

    Hawk,

    Interesting.

    Barristan has such a heroic character arc, his point of view comes across as anything but a last-minute addition.

    Regardless of why it was done, I’m glad that GRRM decided to expand on his character a bit.

    Well, in my mind at least, for that’s worth, which is not much.

    I do hope that he will return to Westeros before his storyline ends.

  416. Hawk
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

    Joh,

    his three chapters were some of my favorites from ADWD, and we get his great line to Khrazz: “This coward is going to kill you, Ser.”

    Maybe he will make it back to Westeros before he dies…his chapters are fun, and I get the sense that GRRM really enjoyed writing them, which must have been good for him if you know anything about his struggles to unravel that knot…

  417. Shock Me Sane
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    So how many people are on board with the theory that Talisa is a Lannister spy and will be captured at RW and replace Jeyne Poole at the Dreadfort? All that letter-writing in a language Robb can’t read in contrast to Tywin’s constant letter-writing seems a bit heavy-handed.

  418. Bill Volk
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    I was expecting Tywin to really throw down against Joffrey and call out every single stupid thing Joffrey’s done in the past three seasons, but he really let Joffrey off easy. It would have been perfect if Tywin had said, “Oh, and one more thing. The next dead whore I find, I’ll put in your bed!”

  419. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    Bill Volk,

    I was expecting Tywin to really throw down against Joffrey

    Me too! However, I would think that Joffrey is expecting it too and he’s terrified of when that will happen. So Tywin is simply taking advantage of that fear. After all if you can control someone by the anticipation of something bad happening, then you never actually have to do the bad thing. :)

  420. Eleanor
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    Best line hands-down:

    “Yes, sweet girl. My mother taught me.”

  421. WildSeed
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    Second view of the episode, and he Bear pit scene didn’t affect me as bad.
    I had issues with a few less than impressive , supposedly pivotal
    moments, but I enjoyed it overall.

  422. Gayle Gunn
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    lord manteezy,

    lord manteezy,
    Is this baby in the book …. i dont remember it

  423. GoT
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    Michel,

    Yara’s scene will mark the end of episode 3×08, with her finding Balon’s corpse floating on the water.

  424. DH87
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed: Second view of the episode, and he Bear pit scene didn’t affect me as bad.

    Taking a second look at the photo of “Brienne” fighting Young Bart, reminds me that a “real” bear anywhere in pseudo-Europe would have been most probably a skinny, mangy, miserable creature with toothless gums and clawless paws, forced to fight dogs in flea-bitten pits . On the other hand, Young Bart, at 9 feet tall and l,000 pounds, needs no CGI to be a daunting adversary. :)

  425. kingjon
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    Couldn’t agree more with comments about how good Dany looked in that scene in the tent. When they first showed her, I literally said, ‘Wow!’ She looked awesome and perhaps all that white was making my subconscious channel Princess Leia. Either way, I dug it. And the episode was strong. Loved how Brienne addressed Jaime as ‘Ser Jaime’ in the scene before he departed. Subtle stuff like that in one of the things that makes this show the new Star Wars in my mind. I just got lost in it. Like I did with the Star Wars universe growing up.

  426. scout
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

    Darquemode:
    eriktopham,

    That was one of my two favorite moments of the episode!
    Bienne calling him “Ser Jaime” and the chat between Qyburn and Jaime.

    Qyburn asked Jaime, “And how many lives have you saved?”
    So smug was Qyburn until…
    Jaime responded,“Half a million. The population of Kings Landing.”

    That entire scene was sheer brilliance!

    I agree, all of the Jaime scenes were brilliant this ep, but where, oh where was Jaime’s dream sequence?! I’ve been looking forward to that, and Jaime telling Brienne, “I dreamed of you” when she asks him why he came back…

  427. Chris
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

    Mark,

    Queenscrown!?
    I hope I hope I hope we get to enjoy Sam’s scary, slithery, horror movie-eque introduction to Bran & Co., where he sounds like the Creature from the Blackest Basement creeping up on them all, when it’s really just him being clumsy and Gilly’s baby yowling down in the tunnels.
    Just reading that sequence, it’s so easy to see Martin’s background in TV and movies. It would translate marvelously to the screen and wouldn’t be especially hard to shoot.
    I’d much rather enjoy that than get ANOTHER episode of Ramsay playing “this little piggy went to market (snip!) this little piggy stayed home (snip!)” with Theon!

  428. waddy
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    I think it’s time we all admitted that Game of Thrones is pretty trashy television, watchable yes, but trashy nonetheless.

  429. Ceri
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

    Looks like they’re cracking down on youtube vids of GoT (even those who haven’t been taken down haven’t uploaded in a while…). :( Can’t find anything from ep 7.

  430. Prince of Pentos
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

    Subtle 21st century MISANDRY (dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against men) in this episode:

    1. Gendry stating that he never wanted a father. (This is a reflection of the typical 21st century notions that fathers are failing their children, rather than being banished from their children’s lives through court gender discrimination against men and their former partners’ socially accepted vindictive attitudes, and that a family consisting of only a mother and her children is ideal, rather than being a cause for increased criminality among youth due to failed parenthood.)

    2. Ygritte’s verbal and physical abuse towards Jon. (This is another reflection of the typical 21st century notion that violence, whether physical or verbal, by women against men is always justified because, supposedly, the woman’s desire to cause violence and abuse is only the result of even worse abuse by the man. This stands in blind contradiction to the reality whereby often women abusers are the first (and only) to attack, and without valid reason, and for imagined causes (ex: “he deserved it”), believing themselves to be entitled and justified in their unreciprocated violence against men through mainstream social acceptance and congratulation of it (especially in entertainment media). For instance, around 40% of domestic violence victims are men. Abuse is abuse! Female abuse against men is a crime punishable by law.)

    3. Theon’s “erotic” castration. (21st century notion that men do not have reproductive rights, that male bodies are disposable, and yet, contradictorily, that they cannot be victims as only female bodies can be victims, and that men are incapable of being raped as they are always desirous of sex. These are (the above) nonsense ideas: Men DO have reproductive rights, their bodies are just as precious as female ones and should not be placed unnecessarily in harm’s way, men can also be victims, not just women, and men can also be raped, as Theon was in the episode by both the women and the “unnamed man.”)

    4. Margary’s lecture about the complicated nature of women. (Indirectly, she is stating a 21st notion that men are Bart Simpson-style sexual simpleton testosterone animals, not difficult to please sexually, and not needing of much love and emotion. This is, of course, complete bullshit, and the polar opposite is often true.)

  431. Arthur
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    Oh yeah…

    It’s pretty clear to me D&D are setting up that guy who fixed Jaime’s hand as the guy who will work for Cersie and keep The Mountain alive to become that “Sir Robert Strong” kings guard or w/e they changed his name to.

  432. Arthur
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    WiC….

    Please have a curtain call for Theon’s testicles and a recap of all his sexual conquests up until that point…

  433. Hi-Fi
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    lol, if Talisa’s a spy, it’s going to be seriously ridiculous. I really hope they don’t go in that direction. I’ll be sad if she dies at the RW, I’ll be happy if she escapes with the Blackfish, I’ll be tense if she’s captured and replaces Jeyne Poole. But a spy? So contrived. So over the top.

  434. Astonished
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

    Overall this was one of the weaker episodes of the year. Which says a lot about this season so far.

    Several scenes failed. Lines failed. “Sorry about the sapphires” could have been good, they could have taken a couple of more takes. Who’s your god? “Death”… very cliche, and just terrible scene chemistry.

    I have not enjoyed Arya this year at all for two reasons, the actor and the writing. Which is too bad, because Thoros and Dondarrion are very well done (selling out of Gendry aside). There’s just no Arya chemistry like in the first season. Hint to the actress: run like your life depends on it next time you are escaping a band of bannerless brothers. And let the acting begin.

    Theon’s storyline continues to drag as it has for several eps. It makes less and less sense, and the villain is awful and laughable.

    The Robb Stark storyline is garbage, and the dialog in this ep is less interesting than trash.

    I have been loving the scenes with Jon and Ygritte. They delivered some of the best lines from the books here in this episode, and they did it well. Really happy with Leslie especially.

    I enjoyed all the Red Keep scenes. I liked that Shae called herself the funny whore recalling the scene from season one. Tywin’s scene with Geoffrey was great. The new dynamic between the Lannister siblings Tyrion and Cerise have been interesting to watch (though sadly missing in this ep).

    Dany’s storyline had a strong scene. I have enjoyed these scenes this season, and how they keep them short and sweet. And for the first time, I was impressed by the dragons.

    The bear scene was the one I was most looking forward to seeing this year. What I saw was more of a Knight To The Rescue scene while 100 soldiers silently watch like a row of dead fish. Awful chemistry, not believable, tension ruined by poorly delivered liner ‘sorry about the sapphires’. Seems like the show runners are over estimating the dramatic response to Jaime delivered lines. Oh well. If the whole point is to expose Jaime as a good hearted guy deep down, they could have done better and stuck with some more interesting/edgy themes from the book.

  435. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

    waddy:
    I think it’s time we all admitted that Game of Thrones is pretty trashy television, watchable yes, but trashy nonetheless.

    Compared to what exactly? BBC dramas, sure. Reality tv, no way.

  436. Maxwell James
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    Late to the party, but I’ll just note that Martin has a real knack for writing Shae’s scenes. Which is a marvel, considering how very different she is from her incarnation in the books. Her scenes with Tyrion have been on-again, off-again in the show, but every scene he’s written for them has brought out the best in both of them.

  437. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    Astonished: The bear scene was the one I was most looking forward to seeing this year. What I saw was more of a Knight To The Rescue scene while 100 soldiers silently watch like a row of dead fish. Awful chemistry, not believable, tension ruined by poorly delivered liner ‘sorry about the sapphires’. Seems like the show runners are over estimating the dramatic response to Jaime delivered lines. Oh well. If the whole point is to expose Jaime as a good hearted guy deep down, they could have done better and stuck with some more interesting/edgy themes from the book.

    Interestingly most non-readers seem to have loved the bear scene, and Jaime’s arc in general. I think the problem for many of us is that the scene couldn’t possibly live up to the one in our imaginations.

  438. Astonished
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

    Steven Swanson: Interestingly most non-readers seem to have loved the bear scene, and Jaime’s arc in general. I think the problem for many of us is that the scene couldn’t possibly live up to the one in our imaginations.

    I don’t believe in that excuse.

    Many scenes did live up to my imagination. Some scenes in GoT well exceeded my expectations.

    I thought this bear scene was a poor choice, not just compared to my imagination but compared to good television. They rushed through it. They should have just dropped it.

  439. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

    Arthur:
    Oh yeah…

    It’s pretty clear to me D&D are setting up that guy who fixed Jaime’s hand as the guy who will work for Cersie and keep The Mountain alive to become that “Sir Robert Strong” kings guard or w/e they changed his name to.

    He’s the same character with the same name, the only difference being that he wasn’t part of the Brave Companions, so I sure hope it’s clear.

  440. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

    Astonished: I don’t believe in that excuse.

    Many scenes did live up to my imagination.Some scenes in GoT well exceeded my expectations.

    I thought this bear scene was a poor choice, not just compared to my imagination but compared to good television. They rushed through it. They should have just dropped it.

    What excuse? I’m just telling you that from what I’ve seen people who didn’t know what to expect seem to have really enjoyed the scene.

  441. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    Prince of Pentos,

    I seriously hope you’re joking.

  442. Hi-Fi
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    Maxwell James,

    I absolutely agree with this. I’ve never minded Shae, but she really started working for me in the Blackwater episode. Every moment with her in that episode was a nice surprise. D&D continued it with her scene with Tyrion in last season’s finale, which was very moving and probably one of my favorite scenes to date.

    This season has been very unfriendly towards her, though. Until this episode. “I’m your whore. And once you’re tired of fucking me, I’ll be nothing” (or something like that). So powerful.

  443. Astonished
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

    Steven Swanson,

    I think the problem for many of us is that the scene couldn’t possibly live up to the one in our imaginations.

    This may help you excuse the failings of some scenes, but for me it doesn’t because other scenes do quite well. That is why I said I don’t believe in that excuse.

  444. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

    Astonished:
    Steven Swanson,

    This may help you excuse the failings of some scenes, but for me it doesn’t because other scenes do quite well. That is why I said I don’t believe in that excuse.

    Translation: “I didn’t like that scene.” Okay, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they fucked it up.

    I’m guessing part of the problem, if there is one, is that working with live animals is inherently difficult. There were a lot of similar reactions to scenes involving direwolves in the first season.

  445. Astonished
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 10:51 pm | Permalink

    Steven Swanson: Translation: “I didn’t like that scene.” Okay, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they fucked it up.

    I’m guessing part of the problem, if there is one, is that working with live animals is inherently difficult. There were a lot of similar reactions to scenes involving direwolves in the first season.

    Well Steven Swanson, my post above is for discussion with other folks who have seen the show: I gave my points as to what I liked or didn’t about some scenes.

    Yes, I suppose it’s just my opinion.

  446. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 11:02 pm | Permalink

    Astonished: Well Steven Swanson, my post above is for discussion with other folks who have seen the show: I gave my points as to what I liked or didn’t about some scenes.

    Yes, I suppose it’s just my opinion.

    That’s cool, it’s just interesting to me that the consensus for people who haven’t read the books seems to be that the scene was great, while readers seem on the disappointed side. I do admit that the scene didn’t come to life in a transcendent way like, say, Dany claiming the Unsullied did.

  447. Astonished
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

    Steven Swanson: That’s cool, it’s just interesting to me that the consensus for people who haven’t read the books seems to be that the scene was great, while readers seem on the disappointed side. I do admit that the scene didn’t come to life in a transcendent way like, say, Dany claiming the Unsullied did.

    It seems you read a lot of viewer feedback, and you’re keen on patterns. I didn’t know that non book viewers liked the bear scene.

    I consider myself a non book reader because essentially, I remember nothing from the books. Except one thing: a feeling. In this case, the feeling of excitement I remember from the bear scene, in this show, is completely abridged and rendered into a single meaning: Jaime is a Hero.

    All other characters are flattened, stupid. The whole set is shrunk into a miniature, packed up and put away as quickly as it has been exposed. It’s like it barely existed. The huge bear was just a prop to show off how courageous Jaime is.

    A bit too much chivalry, and too little everything else.

    Meanwhile, I would call Dany Claiming the Unsullied in a previous ep “not as embarrassing as the books”. In other words, better than the books. But still not a great scene as far as TV drama goes.

  448. Shock Me Sane
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 11:34 pm | Permalink

    Hi-Fi,

    Frankly, it’s implied in the books that The Westerling mom at the very least was in on the RW. Tywin does not handle betrayal well, and I don’t think they would just be getting gingerly escorted home after switching sides. So it wouldn’t be all that far-fetched to suggest that in the show Talisa is a combo of three very minor characters that we see almost nothing of: Jeyne Westerling, her mother, and Jeyne Poole. She doesn’t even have to pose as fake Arya, because Jon would still want to save his dead brother’s (pregnant?) wife.

  449. Arthur
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 11:42 pm | Permalink

    No scene from GoT will ever be as good as your imagination pictures it when you first read the books…

    Your imagination has no budget or time constraint. Your imagination will have images that your personal taste would enjoy most. Your imagination has no limits and the first feeling you get after reading an awesome chapter that brings all kinds of emotion to surface will never by outdone by a TV show.

    The sooner you realize this the sooner you will appreciate the TV show. Stop comparing it to the books with such scrutiny. It’s an adaptation that’s created by writers, directors and actors that may have different opinions on how book scenes and/or character interactions should be shown.

    It’s a great show. Each one of us has a different opinion on what scenes/storylines work and don’t work as far as the TV series goes. But overall the show is doing great and the vast majority of us are very happy with it.

    We all nitpick but honestly some of the criticism on these threads really strikes me as petty. Sometimes I may by guilty of this as well but I never fail to step back and look at the big picture and realize I am very lucky to have this TV series brought to life by the production, writting/directing, acting, casting and CGI team that’s involved with it.

  450. Jeff
    Posted May 13, 2013 at 11:48 pm | Permalink

    Does anyone else think they changed jeyne westerlings name so later when they bring jeyne poole into the story the two won’t be confused, just like they changed asha to yara so she wouldn’t be confused with osha

  451. Shmurb
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 12:07 am | Permalink

    Shock Me Sane,

    This is a really good theory, I really hope they go with this. Seeing this now, I’m not quite sure how else they’ll effectively bring in some of the later stories without it. Theon going out of his way later to save his dead friend’s bride and son would just be too good of an arc for his character, and more effective than him saving Jeyne in the books.

  452. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 12:33 am | Permalink

    Astonished: It seems you read a lot of viewer feedback, and you’re keen on patterns. I didn’t know that non book viewers liked the bear scene.

    I consider myself a non book reader because essentially, I remember nothing from the books. Except one thing: a feeling. In this case, the feeling of excitement I remember from the bear scene, in this show, is completely abridged and rendered into a single meaning: Jaime is a Hero.

    All other characters are flattened, stupid. The whole set is shrunk into a miniature, packed up and put away as quickly as it has been exposed. It’s like it barely existed. The huge bear was just a prop to show off how courageous Jaime is.

    A bit too much chivalry, and too little everything else.

    Meanwhile, I would call Dany Claiming the Unsullied in a previous ep “not as embarrassing as the books”.In other words, better than the books. But still not a great scene as far as TV drama goes.

    Damn, tough crowd.

    To me that flattening, simplifying effect is just the nature of the medium. When distilling tomes of this size and depth into a tv series you’re inevitably going to lose a lot of nuance. And when you get down to it, the absolute essential kernel of the bear pit scene, even in the books, was Jaime being a hero. Makes sense that they’d emphasize that aspect for the show.

  453. Hi-Fi
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 12:36 am | Permalink

    Shock Me Sane,

    And I’d buy Jeyne Westerling or at least her mother being spies but the character Talisa is a nurse in the middle of war, not a lowborn lady safe in her castle. I can buy Lady (she’s obviously high born) Talisa being a nurse from Volantis, I can’t buy Lady Talisa being a Lannister from Westeros who just happens to know how to nurse war wounded and decided to take one for the team.

  454. Ed
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 12:53 am | Permalink

    Pau Soriano: Joh:
    Ed,

    Uh, no – guess I am comfortable enough in myself that I don’t feel the urge to commit violence when subjected to a little socially-awkward teasing by a teenage girl.

    Nailed there..

    Ooooooohh!!! BURN!!! LoL

  455. Chickenduck
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 1:29 am | Permalink

    Jeff:
    Does anyone else think they changed jeyne westerlings name so later when they bring jeyne poole into the story the two won’t be confused, just like they changed asha to yara so she wouldn’t be confused with osha

    Don’t think so. Apparently D&D changed the backstory for Jeyne Westerling, and because of this GRRM suggested they should therefore change the name.

    I think Jeyne Poole/Fake Arya will be completely different in the show too, and probably won’t be called Jeyne.

  456. Shock Me Sane
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 1:49 am | Permalink

    Shmurb,

    Spy or not, I’m betting Talisa ends up in the clutches of the Boltons. It gives Theon a recognizable character to rescue, and a reason to rescue her. The TV writers seem happy to cut away extra characters when an existing one will do, see Loras condensed into the only male Tyrell heir rather than having Sansa consider marrying someone who’s never onscreen. For non-readers, I think having Theon rescue Talisa is probably the only act that could redeem him, not “random prisoner b”

  457. hinka
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 1:55 am | Permalink

    Preview Episode 8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nEqGsawWFE


    -Dany meets the mercenary companys
    -Arya and Hound traveling
    -Mel using kingsblood
    -Sam beeing a slayer
    -Tywin and Joffrey interaction

  458. Shock Me Sane
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 2:00 am | Permalink

    And lastly on the subject, I think even if Talisa is confirmed as a spy/Lannister insider, she will either die with him at the RW or have been given the understanding that he was simply going to be held prisoner. I think the second option more likely, as someone needs to get rescued by Theon, and she will mourn Robb’s death and reveal she was only informing to keep her family safe. Once given up to the Boltons, either Ramsay or something during the escape will cause her to lose the child in all likelyhood, furthering our sympathy for her and hatred for the Boltons.

    In fact, I wouldn’t be the least surprised if she die’s from complications of miscarriage from the wall-jump after the escape, as I don’t think Jeyne’s character has terribly much more to do in the series.

  459. Shock Me Sane
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 2:08 am | Permalink

    hinka,

    Fairly certain that your last bullet point is actually a clever camera cut, and though Tywin will be present at the scene, it will in fact be Tyrion threatening Joffrey to set him up as Joffrey’s potential killer. They may even include the part where Tywin tells the guards that the king is exhausted and should be escorted to his chambers. Crossing my fingers!

  460. Stephen Bosco
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 2:52 am | Permalink

    We need to see more of Robb’s bannermen and wolf. Just shove them in the background and give one or two an odd line. Would be cool to see Maege and her daughter. Also why did they not just recast the Greatjon or at least replace him with the smalljon. I guess it’s all about keeping the number of characters down, but still would be good to have them in the background rather than just the same 4 or 5 people discussing the war.

  461. Shock Me Sane
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 3:05 am | Permalink

    Stephen Bosco,

    While I totally agree with all this stuff, extras cost money. Extras with speaking lines that aren’t terrible actors cost even more, while extras that can’t act shouldn’t have speaking parts. Wolves cost money. I think most of the audience would rather see extra dragons and stuff like the Melisandre/Gendry scene, which while short was a rather huge amount of CGI.

    Trust me, I feel your frustration. I wish they had 3x the budget they do, but I understand that there are practical limitations to what you can do with 60 or 65 million bucks over 10 hours. Lord of the Rings had 100 million per 3 hours, not adjusting for inflation. It’s annoying but just goes with the territory. I’m amazed at how great the dragons are and how improved the large army shots are this year on the budget they have.

  462. GrzebykK
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 3:09 am | Permalink

    My expectations of GRRM’s episode were maybe to high. Personally I am disappointed a little.

    Fourth Of His Name:
    I loved the playing of Rains of Castamere at the end.

    I loved it too. “Rains” with voice are great, but the orchestrated version adds some more flavor.

    WeirwoodTreeHugger:
    On rewatch I was very touched by Brienne calling Jaime “Ser Jaime”

    Me too. Little bit but tasty.
    I also liked this episode’s Hodor.

  463. Cerb
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 3:22 am | Permalink

    I did not like it too much. Bear fight fell flat for me. The Theon “arc” is no arc at all. Rest was meh. Dany was okay.

    Btw, not really a problem or something I care too much about, but: 200 000 slaves in Yunkai? How do they feed all those slaves and masters in a desert city? Fishing with medieval technology won’t cut it. Ancient Rome was by far the biggest city in Europe for quite some centuries and had not more than 1 million people. London reached that number in the 19th century, I believe.
    Rome relied heavily on wheat from Egypt and goods from all other parts of the realm. Plus, they had aqueducts. Medieval cities were a lot smaller. A siege of Yunkai shouldn’t take too long …

  464. Andrea
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 4:24 am | Permalink

    Hi all,
    I think the best story line is definitely Jon / Ygritte, it’s passionate and well done. I love it.
    It’s true a lot of time is dedicated to Theon being tortured. It’s definitely too much and I guess it is even more if you haven’t read the books. If you read the books you know why but if you haven’t I think at this point it doesn’t make sense to show him tortured in each episode.
    The bear scene was meh, I agree. And Arya, my favourite together with Tyrion, is disappointing in this season, maybe because the actress grew up too much and she doesn’t look as childish as she did.

    The thing with this 3rd season is that within the episodes there are some scenes/storylines that I like and some I don’t and I find boring or – worse – badly done or badly played. This was not happening in season 1 and 2 where I loved everything and I was glued to the screen. Is it because I read the books meanwhile? Most probably. But it reminds me a lot when, watching the “Return of the JEDI”, I loved the parts with Han Solo and found more boring the parts of the conflict Vader/Luke/Emperor.

    Still a great series, though.

  465. Red Hound
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 4:39 am | Permalink

    Steven Swanson:
    Prince of Pentos,

    I seriously hope you’re joking.

    Why would he be joking? If scenes can be nit-picked to fit the propaganda from one side (pro-neo-feminism), why is it so bad if the other side does it too?

  466. Tessa_Leonie
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 5:13 am | Permalink

    Saw the Talisa letter on Wic Tumblr, now I really want to try and see if I can translate bits based on the spoken Valerian we have. I can’t get that Talisa is a letter writing spy girl conspiracy video out of my head,

  467. lyanna wolfgirl
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 5:18 am | Permalink

    argilac’s antler,

    i agree about the girls… i was thinking the same thing! why would they be as evil as ramsay? the whole point is that he is singularly sadistic, and even the people he hangs out with are uncomfortable with what he does. and also, we never hear that he has any girl-groupies, especially willing ones – his sole interest in women seems to be hunting them with dogs. he doesn’t treat them as companions. so yeah, that seemed really off to me as well. not that the girls did it, but that they enjoyed it so much.

  468. lyanna wolfgirl
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 5:37 am | Permalink

    Icebird,

    If I recall from the books, it was just a small mention in AF4C, but I believe the Lannisters/Westerlings force Jeyne to drink the moon tea. So yes, Jeyne was pregnant in the books but there’s no heir for Robb unless I’m wrong.

    actually, moon tea is a birth control medication, not an abortifacent.

  469. Michel
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 5:42 am | Permalink

    I wonder when Wendel Manderly will appear, since he appeared with Robb & Co at Edmure wedding in one trailer, even as a minor, he should have been introduced earlier, right?

  470. Darquemode
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 5:43 am | Permalink

    lyanna wolfgirl,

    “Moon tea is a type of herbal tea that is used in the Seven Kingdoms as well as beyond the Wall to prevent or abort pregnancies. It is made generally by maesters and wise women out of the flower tansy, mint, wormwood, a spoon of honey, and a drop of pennyroyal.[1][2] ”
    http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Moon_tea

  471. Darquemode
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    Darquemode,

    Ooops I meant to make that bold not spoiler block it! XD

    IF any mod wans o change it a delete this tanks.

  472. OriginalTobi
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    cawk gawd,

    Given that, without them, there would be no GoT on TV at all, and given that they produce ca. 75% of all episodes of a show that continues to reap appreciation and awards, they still must be truly excellent guys. Everything else is very very personal preference at best.

  473. Hawk
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    OriginalTobi,

    there are plenty of opportunists on this earth…if D&D hadn’t done it, somebody else would have…

  474. WompWomp
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 9:05 am | Permalink

    Hawk,

    As obvious as hindsight makes this seem, not just anyone would have wanted to adapt ASOIAF to television, and even less people would have passed GRRM’s scrutinous litmus test. It’s easy to dismiss now that GoT is such a hit (“Of course someone else would have made it, it’s so successful!”), but it started as a huge gamble for everyone involved.

  475. Hawk
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    not just anyone, and not just D&D…the opportunity was just waiting to be seized, b/c of the already existent fan base…if not D&D, somebody else would have seized the opportunity, and been willing to take the gamble…the product might have been better, or it might have been worse…that we’ll never know…

  476. Patrik
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    eriktopham,

    i think locke called him Ser Jamie right before he cut off his hand (on the show maybe not in the book)

  477. Ed
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    Why?

    Stephen Bosco:
    We need to see more of Robb’s bannermen and wolf.

  478. Baihu1983
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    Not sure if posted but this makes a lot of sense after this episode….

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsTVnZm9hFg

    If true? Just for TV or a nice big future book spoiler for us?

  479. Nicole
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    I think this was a strong episode, even though some of the story lines are moving slowly. GRRM does the best job of making this show ASOIAF, I felt like I was seeing Dany for the first time. My favorite part – when Missandei introduced Dany with her titles that was done perfectly, and only GRRM could have done it! Dany looked fierce and beautiful and the dragons were impressive and HUGE! Also, I am really impressed with Missandei, for what little she does she makes an impact.

    Everyone who is freaking out about the Theon torture needs to get a grip. This is A Song of Ice and Fire and torture and sex abound. Get used to it because it makes the series what it is – brutal and twisted. GRRM is still in full force!

    Jon and Ygritte were better this week too! For sure! D & D need to learn more from the master on the essence of these characters and this story.

    Still pissed that the wolves are basically not existent. Although, it will make it easier to watch RW.

  480. imlad
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    Michael K,

    I think you mean John Wayne Bobbitt. I believe Holmes was just a porn star with a naturally Hodor-sized member.

  481. Al Swearengen
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    That look on Jamie’s face when Breinne called him “Ser Jamie” was touching.

  482. fuelpagan
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    Anne,

    We’ve had several Bran dreams though. One of him warging as Summer approaching the party and then Bran opening his eyes. A couple of crow dreams this season with Jojen saying the crow is Bran and another of him climbing the tree and his mother yelling at him. The synopsis for episode 9 says “Bran finds he has a new gift” so there will be more Bran magic to be shown this season. The only part I see missing is Bran trying to control the animal.

    Back during season 2 in one of the speculation threads I talked about the problems I felt in postponing the Reeds. At the time we weren’t sure the Reeds were still in the show. In order for this dynamic to have any form of authenticity, the Reeds had to be…
    1. Introduced.
    2. Explain why they are there.
    3. Why Bran should trust their council.

    So instead of laying the groundwork for the relationship in season 2, all this was pushed to season 3.

    To have Jojen and Meera show up, then Osha just agree to split up the boys just wouldn’t have worked as quickly as you’re claiming it could. Just having Bran blindly trust Jojen and Meera would look like the biggest boneheaded move ever. The scene in the latest episode establishes Bran is listening to Jojen and has been for a while to the point Osha isn’t comfortable. And Osha shouldn’t be comfortable with strangers all of the sudden showing up and demanding to be heard if she genuinely is wanting to keep the boys safe. Why should she be ok with leaving Bran in the care of strangers? Hopefully it will be enough to establish Bran’s trust in Jojen when Bran decides to follow Jojen over Osha’s demand to go to Castle Black.

    I know we sometimes get focused on the “cool” stuff we see missing and forget there are other parts of the story that need to be served for those who haven’t read the books. Bran’s trust in Meera and Jojen is just as important as establishing what Bran’s magical abilities are. By delaying the Reeds a season means that trust must be built this season as well as showcasing Bran’s abilities.

    Once Ramsay starts hunting the boys Osha will see the importance of splitting Bran and Rickon and she’ll have no choice but to agree to them going in separate directions. She’ll still be within character of wanting to keep the boys safe and Bran heads towards the journey with the Reeds he is meant to travel.

  483. Baihu1983
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen:
    That look on Jamie’s face when Breinne called him “Ser Jamie” was touching.

    I loved that scene and the relationship between those 2 might be the best in the whole show for me.

  484. Gregory Kelton
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    Arthur:
    Oh yeah…

    It’s pretty clear to me D&D are setting up that guy who fixed Jaime’s hand as the guy who will work for Cersie and keep The Mountain alive to become that “Sir Robert Strong” kings guard or w/e they changed his name to.

    1) Prolly should be spoiler blocked.
    2) It is the same guy. Even has the same name. Only difference is he’s not with the Brave Companions, because they’ve been removed from the books.

  485. scout
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    Astonished:
    Overall this was one of the weaker episodes of the year.Which says a lot about this season so far.

    Several scenes failed. Lines failed.“Sorry about the sapphires” could have been good, they could have taken a couple of more takes. Who’s your god? “Death”… very cliche, and just terrible scene chemistry.

    I have not enjoyed Arya this year at all for two reasons, the actor and the writing. Which is too bad, because Thoros and Dondarrion are very well done (selling out of Gendry aside). There’s just no Arya chemistry like in the first season. Hint to the actress: run like your life depends on it next time you are escaping a band of bannerless brothers. And let the acting begin.

    Theon’s storyline continues to drag as it has for several eps. It makes less and less sense, and the villain is awful and laughable.

    The Robb Stark storyline is garbage, and the dialog in this ep is less interesting than trash.

    I have been loving the scenes with Jon and Ygritte. They delivered some of the best lines from the books here in this episode, and they did it well. Really happy with Leslie especially.

    I enjoyed all the Red Keep scenes. I liked that Shae called herself the funny whore recalling the scene from season one.Tywin’s scene with Geoffrey was great. The new dynamic between the Lannister siblings Tyrion and Cerise have been interesting to watch (though sadly missing in this ep).

    Dany’s storyline had a strong scene. I have enjoyed these scenes this season, and how they keep them short and sweet. And for the first time, I was impressed by the dragons.

    The bear scene was the one I was most looking forward to seeing this year. What I saw was more of a Knight To The Rescue scene while 100 soldiers silently watch like a row of dead fish. Awful chemistry, not believable, tension ruined by poorly delivered liner ‘sorry about the sapphires’. Seems like the show runners are over estimating the dramatic response to Jaime delivered lines. Oh well. If the whole point is to expose Jaime as a good hearted guy deep down, they could have done better and stuck with some more interesting/edgy themes from the book.

    Disagree completely about your take on Arya/Maisie this season – she continues to portray Arya flawlessly (and it’s hard to run in absolute darkness in a forest – you go slow so you don’t trip, fall down and get caught!). Also disagree about the Jaime scenes in this ep. Thought the bear pit was great, and loved his one-liner at the end. Nikolaj should have an Emmy nomination waiting for him this season. Sorry you didn’t enjoy the episode more, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. Wasn’t as good as Kissed By Fire, but a good in-between ep.

  486. Astonished
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

    scout,

    I’d vote Nik should win an Emmy for his cameo on SNL in which he plays himself. I have seen a few child actor problems with Arya and Brann this season. Sansa is mostly stable, at least, and I’m glad about that.

  487. Steel_Wind
    Posted May 14, 2013 at 11:29 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger:
    Jared,

    I hope they don’t leave out Robb’s will.It ties in so nicely with Stannis’ offer to make Jon Lord of Winterfell and Jon’s guilt about pretty much wanting to be Robb.

    It will tie into a great deal more than that before all is said and done, I wager. That wasn’t a plot detail thrown in for a bit of introspection at a later date. GRRM set that plot line up in Book 3 to have a huge effect in Book 6 and 7. It’s been a long-scripted event. It’s not going away. It’s the plotline that makes Jon Snow, newly risen from his second life in Ghost to be Jon Stark, King of the North.

    There is no chance they will leave it out if it is important. If it is as important as we all think it is, it will happen in next week’s episode, or at the beginning of Ep 9.

    There is the chance that it does not happen at all, of course. It is much harder to justify Robb doing it if he knows Talisa is pregnant – and does not know that Sansa has been married to a Lannister. Why the show screws with a plot point like this is maddening. More maddening still if it is GRRM that wrote the bit about Talisa being preggers.

  488. serum
    Posted May 15, 2013 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    armsbendback,

    perfect explanation, couldnt have said it better!

  489. Anne
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    I’m enjoying our discussion by the way. proof that people can has a civilized conversation around here.

    I’m glad you mentioned the scene with Bran/Raven/Catelyn. For that scene was a fail with me for two reasons:

    One reason is I didn’t like the way it made me feel about Catelyn afterwords! She seemed so mean in it! I am in agreement with the people who don’t like how she is being portrayed in the show, but it not something I want to get into because it’s been discussed to death around here. It is what it is, there’s nothing that can be done for it now. But it just threw another log onto that fire for me. I find myself not liking her in the show, and I never disliked her in the books. but whatever…we’re discussing Bran here…

    Dreaming about a Raven, and embodying the Raven are two different things…When that scene started playing out, i thought it was finally going to come to fruition with Bran merging with the crow (raven! I keep wanting to say crow, haha). it starts with Bran seeing the raven in the tree, Jojen shows up, says something like “you know what you need to do.” (well, no he doesn’t, that’s what you’re there for, to teach him), but I actually at that point said out loud “you have to go into the crow Bran”! and I really thought it was going to happen…and then he starts climbing the tree. And I thought “He thinks he needs to catch it, he still doesn’t understand what he needs to do here.” And then Catelyn shows up and acts all mean with him, and even as he started to fall, I thought maybe then, his fear would trigger him into the Raven, so he wouldn’t fall again…but nope.

    your points 1 & 2 above have been established (but how well for non-readers I’m not sure, I keep going back to all the things the reviewers and recappers say, and seems to me they’re either not understanding it, or not caring about this story line at all. and that’s why I started discussing it here, because I’m sad that people don’t care about Bran. ) Point #3, The trust thing with the Reeds, you’re correct, but do you think they’ve established that well enough so far? I’m thinking it’s still a bit suspect.

    And now we’re up against it with Bran. think about where we’re at now in the story. This next episode, we’re definitely at chapter Bran III, Queenscrown. “Bran finds he has a new gift, ” Well, that has got to be him warging into Hodor, right? But there is also Summer rescuing Jon. Have the writers established Bran’s abilities well enough that people understand that he just doesn’t walk around seeing through Summer’s eyes, but that he can think as himself while doing it? that he can control the wolves actions? that it’s Bran, not Summer, who saves Jon? I guess we will see.

    As readers, we have the benefit of being able to “fill in the blanks.” I’ll be curious to see-if in fact, we do get the events of Bran III in this next episode-If non-readers will get it finally, and start caring about Bran’s storyline.

  490. Anne
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    Steel_Wind: It’s the plotline that makes Jon Snow, newly risen from his second life in Ghost to be Jon Stark, King of the North.

    Do tell- how is a wolf going to be King Of The North?

    I’m not trying to be a smart ass, just wondering. I have a bit of different theory of Jon’s fate after ADWD. I just want to hear others theories.

  491. B
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    Blaat,

    Ok, so in regards to the Tyrion Shae scene and viewing the necklace….. SPOILER MAJOR SPOILER

    I think it is definite that we will get a Tyrion jealous rage scene next season where he strangles her. But the question is, will we get to see a full on nude scene with Charles Dance as pappa Lannister revealing his sultry side for once on the show. Do you think D&D have the balls to do this with a man of 66? That would be epic and a HUGE shock to audiences to see a sex scene between he and Shae. I don’t think they’ll go so far as to show him on the shitter, that WOULD be so undignified. But I guess that would be the point and the irony of the situation since Tywin resented the indignity of Tyrions existence and his own fathers ill repute. His whole life has been about building a solid, forceful dignified reputation and a cool indifference about base needs. This would expose his humanity.

    What does any one else think? Charles dance is hot by the way… The man works out like crazy! Am I a freak?

    END SPOILER

  492. RIP
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    Chris Umber,

    I’m hoping this is the case. One of my non-reader friends still thinks Jaime is up to something even though he’s been a prisoner for the last two seasons. I think the whole “Jaime Lannister sends his regards” would definitely confuse some viewers. It’s really easy to forget how much the context of having read the books colors the perception of the events of an episode.

  493. novichaso
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:46 pm | Permalink

    When are we seeing Asha in 3rd season? I hope next episode!
    And… what will she be doing?! I saw her with an army in the trailers… taking Deepwood Motte maybe? or Moat Cailin?

  1. [...] note: The discussion in this post is primarily for non-book readers (book fans can discuss the show here). We ask all the series veterans to refrain from posting spoilers in the comments here, veiled or [...]


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