Thrones producer: “We’ll probably get through seven seasons”
By Winter Is Coming on in Press, Speculation.

Frank DoelgerGame of Thrones producer Frank Doelger spoke with RadioTimes at the BAFTAs, where Thrones took home the Audience Award, and had an interesting quote about how long he expects the show to last.

Speaking backstage at the Baftas – where Game of Thrones was also nominated in the International category – Doelger said: “[The number of series] is being discussed as we speak. The third season was the first half of book three, season four will be the second part of book three. George RR Martin has written books four and five; six and seven are pending.

“I would hope that, if we all survive, and if the audience stays with us we’ll probably get through to seven seasons.”

Winter Is Coming: Seven seasons? That seems at least one season shorter than I expected. And really, unless they plan on making some pretty major cuts from A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons, I think that nine seasons would be necessary. Either Doelger is being very conservative here (under-promise and over-deliver) or there are going to be some major changes coming after season 4.


348 Comments

  1. freoduwebbe
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    Hodor..
    Hmmm that will make next year hump year

  2. Ser Ludogg
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    Hodor?

  3. Ser Ludogg
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    I bet they are thinking of combining AFFC and ADWD into one season as they are concurrent (mostly).

  4. Jospeh
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Hodor

    By the Seven I hope it doesn’t get cut short

  5. Brodor
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    Hodor

    I agree with WiC

  6. Jentario
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    What is season 4.f?

  7. OhDanyBoy
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    I think the uncertainty of the release date for ADOS plays into it. We can be fairly certain that TWOW will be out in time for adaptation (as certain as we can be, George…), so AFFC, ADWD, and TWOW adding up to three seasons might make sense, while the course to take if ADOS is not out is less clear.

    He could also be speaking purely from a production side – perhaps there are contracts or leases in place up to 7 seasons, and there is too much uncertainty past that to be confident of it happening?

  8. JonathanL
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    I think there’s a lot you can cut out of ADWD and AFFC, such as most of Brienn’s journey, Quentyn Martell, and many elements of the Ironborn story. Also, much of Dany’s plotline and trimming Jon’s political maneuvering.

    Not saying I like the cuts (I really liked AFFC), but it can be done.

  9. Jentario
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    Ser Ludogg:
    Hodor?

    Ho’, door.

  10. Mescalinic
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    WiC: unless they plan on making some pretty major cuts from A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons

    ehm..OF COURSE they’re gonna make some pretty major cuts. i mean..have we read the same books? ADWD has a terrible amount of chapters that are completely useless or just too much chapters for storyline that don’t need that amount.
    Daenerys? cut cut cut cut cut cut.
    Jon? some cut
    Tyrion? more than some cut
    Victarion? they probably are gonna change A LOT all the Greyjoys’ storylines.

    etc. etc.

    still, yeah, seven is one less than the show probably need. but lots of cuts are coming, and that’s for the good :)

  11. Independent George
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Oh praise Rh’llor! There is a ton of material from FFC/DWD that can(and should) be cut.

  12. superdeluxe
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    7 seasons? Boo.

  13. The Young Wolf
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    In 6 years:

    Isaac will be 20
    Maise will be 22
    Sophie will be 23

    so on and so forth. I see this being a problem…

  14. Omar Brown
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    Hell, combine AFFC and ADWD, cut the fat, bloat and boring parts and you get two seasons. And that’s being generous.

  15. Donna Gagnon
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    Book 3 was jam packed with information and wonderful scenes and needed to be divided into 2 seasons. Book 4 and 5 are in the same time period and could be combined into one season. I actually hated book 4 as it was full of unnecessary additional characters and had no Tyrion, Arya or Jon Snow!

  16. Premislaus
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    They need to make cuts to AFFC and ADWD if they want to make a compelling TV show. Gods (both Old and the New) knows the’re plotlines that even the readers find tedious or pointless.

    Also, I think this finally crushes the (baffling) idea that S4 will be just the last 1/3 of ASOS with no or very little AFFC/ADWD elements.

  17. JP Dayne
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    yep
    we’re not getting dorne or the greyjoys
    showfriends, enjoy it

  18. Dragolf
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

    Oh snap, the books will be passed by the show for sure.

  19. The Onion Knight
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    10 season seems reasonable to tell the story.

    Book 1/Season 1, Book 2/Season 2, Book 3/Season 3, Book 3/Season 4, Books 4 & 5 being combined into one new story that is told throughout Seasons 5 and 6, Book 6/Season 7, Book 6/ Season 8, Book 7/Season 9, Book 7/Season 10.

  20. vampiredoctor
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    Cut to the bone. Feast/Dance need it badly. 7 seasons is enough GRRM just needs to get moving and get Winds out by next year.

  21. Maxwell James
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    I like both AFFC and ADWD. But there’s no way the two books can be turned into two seasons of compelling television without significant cuts. Which means that they’ll be less than two seasons in total.

    Since I also can’t imagine them getting through season 4 using only material from ASOS, seven seasons sounds about right. And no, Martin won’t finish the books before the show – at this point I’m just hoping he finishes Winds.

  22. sjwenings
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    I’ve long thought that they might use some of the AFFC and ADWD-material for season 4, and compress those books a lot, so we might get through them in s5.

    But since noone knows just how TWOW and ADOS are gonna turn out – they might be dense with plot progression – I don’t really see how he can be confident about 7 seasons. He’s probably not. Though, one season per these two books doesn’t seem far fetched.

    D&D probably don’t want to do this forever. Same with the actors.

  23. vampiredoctor
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    Even Benioff and Weiss think 10 seasons is too many.

  24. MUGger
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    The Young Wolf,

    Well — maybe GoT is planning that 5 year jump that GRRM was unable to use…

  25. Jospeh
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    I’ve never really understood the problems people have with Feast and Dance. Can’t say I’d be too happy to see unnecessary amounts of cutting just because of the lack of massive events

  26. abYsss
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    I’m not too worried about it, since he states, that the “number is being discussed as we speak”.

    Since TWOW and ADOS haven’t been released yet, I can’t see them making any accurate predictions as to how to adapt these 2 books.

  27. anuhealani
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    Since there’s no way season 4 will be “the second half of A Storm of Swords,” as they keep saying, a 7-season estimate sounds pretty bang-on to me.

    S4: Remaining 1/3 of ASOS + 1/3 of AFFC + 1/3 of ADWD
    S5: Remaining 2/3 of AFFC + Remaining 2/3 of ADWD
    S6: The Winds of Winter
    S7: A Dream of Spring

    I also firmly believe it was a mistake to stretch ASOS into S4, though, which I know is not a popular opinion around here.

  28. Summer Is Coming
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    7 seasons? so AFFC, ADWD, and the future TWOW will make 2 seasons, with the last book being made into one season. The final battle for the Iron Throne. This is not actually a bad idea, altough I want GoT for as long as it can be! The question is, will GRRM finish the books in time? hope so..

  29. mariamb18
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    OhDanyBoy:
    I think the uncertainty of the release date for ADOS plays into it.We can be fairly certain that TWOW will be out in time for adaptation (as certain as we can be, George…), so AFFC, ADWD, and TWOW adding up to three seasons might make sense, while the course to take if ADOS is not out is less clear.

    He could also be speaking purely from a production side – perhaps there are contracts or leases in place up to 7 seasons, and there is too much uncertainty past that to be confident of it happening?

    Yes to all of this. Without any idea of when ADOS will be released, there is a great deal of uncertainty about how long this show will continue. Its not necessarily about what gets cut going forward. Its about being able to make the massive commitment to do this for more than four additional years; that’s a long time.

    Yes, a great deal can be eliminated but we still need to have the end of the story.

  30. JamesL
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    9 seasons is ridiculous, no way the show will be able to keep up the buzz and excitement that long to justify the costs. 7 seasons seems like a good goal to shoot for but even that will be hard to get to without losing audience interest due to the the increasingly sprawling and complex nature of the story and the decrease in quality of the actual story being told.

  31. thisone
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    Seven is a good number. I don’t think they should make more than seven.

  32. Costello
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    Good. Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons are so full of pointless filler they could easily be combined into a (fairly weak) single TV season.

  33. AngryRosFan
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think A Storm of Swords is enough material for two full seasons of the show anyway, and I assume that some of what happens in book 4 and 5 – since they are concurrent for the most part, will be sliced into season 4. Didn’t one of the show runners say that in an earlier interview?

    So that being the case, there is room for cuting in both AFFC and ADWD; a lot of repetitive wandering Brienne, a lot of mundane ruling of Mereen for Daenerys, a lot of unnecessary Iron Islands back story and kings-smooting, stuff that doesn’t have any real bearing on the main stories (not a fan of the Ironborn, and I hope they keep it mostly to Theon and “Asha” whom they’ve already introduced), etc.

    The storylines the connect the dots between wide-ranging and seemingly disconnected story arcs will hopefully be the main focus of the TV series. For example, Stannis going to the Wall connects the Southern power struggles to the Nights Watch and the Wildlings; Quentyn tries to connect Daenerys to the power struggle in Westeros, and Tyrion connects Aegon to the power struggle in Westeros. It may be that the visual medium makes the connections more apparent than the POV format of the books that takes a long to get where it’s going in some of the stories.

  34. H. Stark
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    I would prefer 8 seasons.
    I think Winds and Dream will have a lot of stuff happening and the producers like to add scenes that are not in the books.

  35. Walter Harrow
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    Donna Gagnon,

    Arya did appear in Feast for Crows

  36. The Young Wolf
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    MUGger:
    The Young Wolf,

    I don’t see how they could do it successfully where George failed.

    Well — maybe GoT is planning that 5 year jump that GRRM was unable to use…

  37. Morgan King
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    We’re certainly getting the Greyjoys – they’ve spend far too much time on Balon & family to cut it – I wouldn’t be too surprised to see Victarion and Euron combined into a meta-pirate, though. As anyone who’s read the early Winds of Winter chapters knows, they are looking to be pretty significant. Whether we see Dorne will certainly depend on what GRRM is planning on doing with them – we’re already surely getting Braavos and Old City eventually, and people are going to be pretty disappointed if we don’t at least get a Red Viper, and, therefore, at least one Sandsnake to avenge him.

    Given the rate we’ve seen elements of AFfC and ADwD peppered into this season already (Margaery turning the churchgoing poor against Joffrey, the looking-back-in-time of Bran’s greenseeing, etc) I imagine by Season 5 we’ll be deep into ADwD, despite spending 2 seasons on ASoS. It seems likely TWoW will be out by then (perhaps wishful thinking, but also he’s got the show to keep up with and much of it is already written) – if GRRM has managed to wrangle the series into shape by then, it would not surprise me to see HBO give them a year hiatus, like the Sopranos, to film everything that’s left of Book 7 and return with the series finale to be released concurrently with the book finale. Which would obviously be a massive and lucrative event for everyone.

  38. Jentario
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    anuhealani:
    Since there’s no way season 4 will be “the second half of A Storm of Swords,” as they keep saying, a 7-season estimate sounds pretty bang-on to me.

    S4: Remaining 1/3 of ASOS + 1/3 of AFFC + 1/3 of ADWD
    S5: Remaining 2/3 of AFFC + Remaining 2/3of ADWD
    S6: The Winds of Winter
    S7: A Dream of Spring

    I also firmly believe it was a mistake to stretch ASOS into S4, though, which I know is not a popular opinion around here.

    If George would see that he’d get a heart attack.

    I think they can make AFFC ADWD and the second half of ASOS last 3 seasons with some help from TWOW and some cuts and rewrites. The rest is up to GRRM, but if he doesn’t want the show to overtake him TWOW must be released next year so he’ll have time to properly end the series before the last season.

  39. Amanda M
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    I agree that AFFC/ADWD are going to need to be cut majorly, but I’m not too bothered by that, to be honest.

    7 seasons seems reasonable. 7 books, 7 seasons, all very fitting with the series, I think :) (Im still afraid with what’s going to happen when the show inevitably surpasses the books though… But that’s a conversation for another day. Haha)

  40. anuhealani
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    Jentario: If George would see that he’d get a heart attack.

    Well, tough luck for him because it’s not like the show is going to stop production just because he doesn’t have the next book out.

  41. Clob
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    The Young Wolf: In 6 years:Isaac will be 20Maise will be 22Sophie will be 23so on and so forth. I see this being a problem…

    If the characters all last that long ;) I don’t see how it’s that big of a problem at all. They’re going from upper teen to very early twenty’s, not thirty to sixty-five. The one that may change the most in appearance is Isaac and I still don’t see much of an issue. Viewers should expect them to age, if not want them to as it is an indicator of time passing.

  42. bon
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    I think that seven season is a good number – Seven Kingdoms, Seven Gods of the Faith, but without source material – books I think that seven seasons are minimum and 9 maximum for telling the whole story.

  43. Shady_Grady
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    ADWD and especially AFFC have room for massive edits for television. I like the idea of the five year jump for tv. I would be happy if the series reached seven seasons but think it will probably stop around five or six. What will be key is how the audience reacts to the Red Wedding. Many non-book readers I know think that after Ned , that now Robb is the main hero. With no “resolution” in sight will they continue watching? I will but I don’t count.

  44. Shmurb
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    Jentario,

    I feel really doubtful that TWOW will be out next year. I’m kind of excited to see where the show goes after this Season, as it’s gonna be off in it’s own world by that point unlike it has been before. I’m guessing at least getting a decent chunk of the beginning of AFFC/ADWD out of the way next season (I mean, if Iron Islands and Dorne are in, it’d make sense to have their intros concurrently next season). I would not be surprised at all if they trimmed all the stuff that wouldn’t make good TV, and that all the plot-threads of the next two books are wrapped up by end of Season 5.

  45. Zack
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    The two most recent books can only be made better through generous cuts to the source when adapting. Seven seasons is doable and should make for tight, exciting seasons. There’s plenty of good material in these two books when you strip out the bloat. I’d hope they can get an eighth but people throwing around nine, ten or more are just completely weird IMO.

    I don’t expect the Ironborn or Dornish plots to be dropped. I do expect considerable merges and cuts of non-vital characters. It’s cool. Books are routinely turned into two hour films. Getting 9 hours (a ten episode season), it will be fiiiine I promise.

  46. Fourth Of His Name
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    Seven seasons seems reasonable to me, although I would obviously like more than that. One possibility is to make the seasons longer than 10 episodes each. I also wouldn’t be at all surprised to see GRRM help them finish the show in similar fashion as to how the books will finish. He himself said that he knows who will be sitting on the Iron Throne in the end. The minor changes that have been made to the show so far – they will eventually snowball. The show is an adaptation of the books, and books 6 and 7 do not necessarily need to be out to write the show. As long as GRRM is there, they finish the story correctly. Us book readers will just have to wait longer to see what happens in the ASOIAF world, as opposed to the GOT world.

  47. Mike Chair
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    vampiredoctor: GRRM just needs to get moving and get Winds out by next year.

    Tuesday night he went to see The Great Gatsby. Yesterday, he was pushing Wild Cards again. He’s not secretive about these things. He blogs (not) about them regularly. Short response: by all available evidence, he’s not moving on TWOW very fast. Next year? HA! Seven Seasons? Not in a row.

  48. TimeforTravel
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    Well, quite perfect isn’t it? TV watchers do not want to watch Daenerys hanging around in Essos for 9 out of 10 seasons. Books 4 and 5 stretch, good to read, but not as great for a captivating tv adaption.

    So it will probably be like this guy said:

    anuhealani:
    Since there’s no way season 4 will be “the second half of A Storm of Swords,” as they keep saying, a 7-season estimate sounds pretty bang-on to me.

    S4: Remaining 1/3 of ASOS + 1/3 of AFFC + 1/3 of ADWD
    S5: Remaining 2/3 of AFFC + Remaining 2/3of ADWD
    S6: The Winds of Winter
    S7: A Dream of Spring

    I also firmly believe it was a mistake to stretch ASOS into S4, though, which I know is not a popular opinion around here.

    Who knows, seasons 6 and 7 might even get 12 or 13 episodes, depending on the amount of material books 6 and 7 cover. If it’s as much material as ASoS, 13 episodes would be spot on. We actually have a little too many for season 3. (15-20 or so).

  49. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    anuhealani:
    Since there’s no way season 4 will be “the second half of A Storm of Swords,” as they keep saying, a 7-season estimate sounds pretty bang-on to me.

    S4: Remaining 1/3 of ASOS + 1/3 of AFFC + 1/3 of ADWD
    S5: Remaining 2/3 of AFFC + Remaining 2/3of ADWD
    S6: The Winds of Winter
    S7: A Dream of Spring

    I also firmly believe it was a mistake to stretch ASOS into S4, though, which I know is not a popular opinion around here.

    It’s like you’re reading my mind.

    There is nothing in AFFC and ADWD that might justify 2 whole seasons. Everything that happens in those books (“happens” not meaning “people traveling and admiring river turtles”) can be condensed into 1.5 seasons at most, and even will probably have a lot of boring stuff.

    Sam traveling from the Wall to Oldtown – the only things that happen there is him sleeping with Gilly and Maester Aemon dying. That could be shown in 3-4 scenes.

    Arya – I don’t understand why she’s in the story after ASOS. The whole point of her Faceless Man training is for her to stop being Arya Stark.


    Dany – please please please cut 99% of her post-ASOS story. Her flying on Drogon is about the only scene worth showing on TV. The ideal story for her would be her going to Westeros after Yunkai and taking the role of Aegon. Have Victarion and Tyrion meet her on the way or something … That will save everyone the pointless soul-sucking waste of time called Mereen and adding another major player so late into the game.


    Tyrion – same, cut all the travelogue, pig riding and such.


    Dornish story – cut Arianne’s plot to steal Myrcella entirely.


    Ironborn – show Euron becoming a king with as few scenes as possible and then show Ironborn conquering stuff in the Reach. At least it’ll get few action scenes.


    Quentyn Martell – cut him entirely.


    Brienne – show her entire pointless and boring story in 3-4 scenes.


    Jaime – show him only when he gets to Riverrun.


    King’s Landing, Wall, the North stuff – that can be shown more or less as it is, with few alterations. Those were parts that were actually interesting to read (I also liked Ironborn stuff in AFFC, but I can understand why some people didn’t like it).

  50. Zack
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Mike Chair: Short response: by all available evidence, he’s not moving on TWOW very fast. Next year? HA! Seven Seasons? Not in a row.

    There’s going to come a point when they pass George in the writing and have to forge their own path. I would not bet on a break. The show has never been 100% faithful to the books and right now they’ve established a world and characters that non-readers care about as much as readers. They’re not going to stop and wait. They’ll go ahead with a bit of guidance from George and then when the book comes out after the series, we’ll get to be “Oh! That didn’t happen on TV! That’s awesome!” and so on. It’s not a big thing.

  51. Javi Marcos
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    The key is Season 5

    Will it cover
    1)AFFC+ADWD, ending in the same spots

    2) Only 2/3 of AFFC/ADWD (complicated to get cliffhangers there), people could get tired of seeing Dany still in Mereen

    ,and in Season 6 we will have the remaining of AFFC+ADWD + beginning of TWOW, included The Full Battles of Ice and Fire, and his aftermath, maybe one great chapter for each one à la Blackwater.

  52. serum
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    every season is a blessing, I’ll take whatever they give us!

  53. TimeforTravel
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    Mike Chair: Tuesday night he went to see The Great Gatsby.Yesterday, he was pushing Wild Cards again.He’s not secretive about these things.He blogs (not) about them regularly.Short response: by all available evidence, he’s not moving on TWOW very fast.Next year?HA!Seven Seasons?Not in a row.

    If you’re so bitter to say the man can’t even visit a movie, something’s wrong with you. Also pay attention, he only posts about other projects when he is either nearly done, or just starting. Or when there are reissues of old books or whatever.

  54. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think this guy is saying that there will definitively be only 7 seasons if they get that far. I’m more inclined to think he was hedging his bets at 7 seasons because of contracts and not story. D&D said themselves last Summer that they saw the series as an 80 or 90 hour movie, which would require 8 or 9 seasons. I seriously doubt their minds have changed on that.

  55. MartinJF
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    JonathanL,

    Don’t you dare cut Quentyn Martell!

  56. Villane
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Seems like I remember hearing DB Weiss saying that they’re aiming for eight seasons. I’d say its hard for us to judge how long it should be without knowing what happens in Winds and Dream.

  57. Mark
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    I was thinking 8 seasons would be perfect, but I can see 7 seasons working out too.

    4th Season: Finish ASOS and get part of the way through AFFC/ADWD end with Tyrion and Arya starting on their journeys and maybe even arriving, Jon being elected Lord Commander of Night’s Watch, Euron/Victarion (I predict combining their characters) Greyjoy taking control of the Ironmen, Stannis is up north after the Battle at the Wall. Dany could get married in the finale after conquering Mereen about halfway through the season.

    5th Season: Finish ADWD/AFFC. Perhaps even have the Battle of Ice/Fire in this season. Will need to cut down on some plotlines for sure but you can get the major stuff in there.

    6th season: WoW

    7th season: ADOS

    I also think we will see things go fast in the next season. I wouldn’t even be surprised if Joffery dies in this season and gets things in motion. Who’s to say we even get “the wedding?” Maybe he kicks it at a banquet or something beforehand? As far as storytelling go, I think ending on the surprise death of Joffery would be a huge way to end this season. I know that it would be a big change from the books, but they have been building to that wedding all season!”

  58. Jeff
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    Alex Dubrovsky,

    This. I know it’s not a popular thought around here and downright sacrilege on westeros.org, but not just condensing, but making sweeping changes as you say is the best way to go IMO. D&D frequently make choices that I think are far from the best, but whatever they come up with for future seasons has got to be better than books 4 and 5. Let them work the outline George has provided. It’ll make for better TV.

  59. rikon
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    I am a big fan of both AFFC and ADWD and lack of action does not affect the quality of the books, attitude to this books only reflects the tastes of some readers that I do not share at all…. I enjoyed Brienne’s chapters and could read twice as much about Danny’s adventures, and by the way, Quentyn is among my top 10 favourite characters – and I wish he had at least 10 chapters in ADWD…. but despite all that…I do believe most of the material can be easily covered by Season 6.

    One has simply to look at how they condensed the story so far to understand that for instance if they keep Briennes story from AFFC – it wont take 2 seasons or 3, it needs 1 episode at the end of Season 4 – where she is sent outon a mission, and 3-4 in Season 5

    This is how I see it – as already mentioned by someone here – :

    Season 4 = 1/3 of ASOS (it is obvious that current Season has more than a half of that Book), early parts from both AFFC and ADWD
    Season 5 = bulk of AFFC and ADWD, and maybe even some events from TWOW moved up…
    Season 6= the remaining events from AFFC/ADWD, and most of TWOW
    Season 7= ADOS

    they might be some contructual difficulaties with some actors that might make planning beyond Season 7 risky, but again if 1 season wont be enough for ADOS thay can either
    – negotiate possibility of Season 8
    or do it like it was done with Breaking Back – film one long final Season and break it into two parts – shown a year apart.

  60. Darquemode
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    This makes me think they could deviate rom the books in a major way. Not just cutting portions to streamline things, but actually change major plot points and how the series ends.

    I cannot believe they would be 2 seasons short of the needed amount to cover the books and actually keep to the books plot, thus spoilering the ending of the books.

    I would think if they know they will pass GRRM by that much they will create their own original late chapters, endgame, and ending.

  61. Yago
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    Without knowing how much is going to happen in books 6 and 7, it’s hard to predict something like this… But I’d say it’s a pretty good prediction. AFFC + ADWD is only one season.

  62. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    Jeff,

    That’s why I’m posting it here and not on westeros.org. I’d probably be banned from there for this :)

    BTW, is there a limit to how much text can be spoiler-coded in one set of tags? Because I spoiler-coded almost an entire post but it concealed only first few and last few lines. I had to spoiler-code every line individually. I think same happened to Mike’s post, or at least that’s how I see it.

  63. Rogge
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    H. Stark:
    I would prefer 8 seasons.
    I think Winds and Dream will have a lot of stuff happening and the producers like to add scenes that are not in the books.

    You wrote that as if you fully expected both winds and dreams to be out within the 4 years it would require to make this even possible. :)

    S4 will be asos+some affc+adwd
    S5 will be affc+adwd
    s6 will be winds (if its out)
    s7 will be freestyling (based on some inside info)
    A dream of spring will be out 3 years after everyone already knows how it ends.

  64. Shock Me Sane
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    I’d probably prefer 8 seasons, but 7 will do. This really just confirms the horrible reality that the series will finish before George, though. We have already had possible spoilers this season for the endgame, and it’s only going to get worse going forward.

    I think the showrunners are doing a great job, but I will be a bit bummed to learn stuff from the show before the books. But that’s just how life is.

  65. Razvan
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    Alex Dubrovsky,

    Dude, the hole point of Arya’s post ASOS story is that she doesn’t stop being Arya Stark even with all their Faceless training. And the Tyrion parts, I sincerely found them very entertaining in ADWD. especially with all the boring Dany parts. So his Essos story is way more better than Dany’s in ADWD, plus, we all know how good Peter is in this role. Imagine him after the murder of Tywin, all those feelings and stuff . I’m just saying. Those 2 stories are worth keeping.

    As for Dany, of course people don’t want to see her doing all that season 2 shit all over again, as in NOTHING. The Martells are sensible, I would keep the Myrcella arc, but remove Quentyn.

    Jon is good to keep, of course. It’s finally the part when we really see him maturing and becoming more interesting, especially in the show.

  66. Shock Me Sane
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    And I’m also quite convinced that George would rather see the series completed on HBO instead of puttering out. Even if they finish first (which they will), I’m sure he will be consulting daily and Dream of Spring will be delayed an extra year.

    Which adds the interesting question: Will this be the first TV series or movie completed before the books it was based on?

  67. Pau Soriano
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    It can’t be done in 7 seasons, there’s just no way.

    And regarding Season 4, they already have the scripts so if they say it’s gonna be the second half of ASOS is because it will be.

    And as someone said even if they cut a lot of stuff of AFFC and ADWD theres 2 seasons there, easy.

    My prediction is that there will be 9 seasons, that the last book will come out the same year than the last season, but later on, and that the ending will be different, so all the show viewers will feel compelled to buy the book, to know the “real” ending, hence making GRR. Martin even richer. And also as a way to “reclaiming” his characters, and to get back at the show for all the changes they made and he didn’t like, wich I’m sure he resents. And D&D will feel cheated, but c’est la vie ;)

  68. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    Razvan,

    Then Arya is a very bad Faceless Man, and I doubt the people she’s with will tolerate her not shedding the Arya Stark persona for long. I also doubt their cult allows for people to leave it after they are shown certain things.

    I can see GRRM using her as some sort of deus ex machina in order to eliminate someone in Essos or in King’s Landing, but it’ll be just bad writing. IMO, her story is done, tragic as it is.

  69. Stacia
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    I wasn’t a fan of AFFC nor ADWD, so I’m happy with cuts. Already there have been changes and I hope there is some larger plan in mind that takes into account GRRM’s plans for how the books wrap up.

    If book readers were annoyed with all the new characters and how the story had stalled out in AFFC and ADWD, think of how TV viewers are going to see it – especially Dany’s plot. They need to speed things up. Constantly adding new characters is fine in a tv show like Grey’s Anatomy that really isn’t going anywhere, but if GoT keeps adding new storylines and characters and the old ones aren’t progressing, viewers are going to get frustrated.

    Also, adding new actors costs money. I’m not sure how many seasons the main cast is signed for, but if they need to re-sign Emilia Clarke and Kit Harrington, and it could get expensive. If revenues for the series drop, then new cast members aren’t going to be in the budget.

    Seven seasons sounds about right to me, and they can focus on the main characters and avoid any of the very extraneous plotlines with Martells and Greyjoys, and make some of the pointless journeys (like Brienne’s) more relevant and related to other plots (like Brienne having more run-ins with other characters, maybe even finding Sansa). The show is grouping characters together more (e.g. Ayra and Tywin in Season 2), so I would expect a lot of plots to be combined.

    I could see them also fleshing out more of what happens off-page in the books, like what happens with Osha and Rickon, and continuing existing plots rather than dropping them for new ones.

  70. oierem
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    anuhealani:
    Since there’s no way season 4 will be “the second half of A Storm of Swords,” as they keep saying, a 7-season estimate sounds pretty bang-on to me.

    S4: Remaining 1/3 of ASOS + 1/3 of AFFC + 1/3 of ADWD
    S5: Remaining 2/3 of AFFC + Remaining 2/3of ADWD
    S6: The Winds of Winter
    S7: A Dream of Spring

    I also firmly believe it was a mistake to stretch ASOS into S4, though, which I know is not a popular opinion around here.

    Totally agreed with both the schedule and your opinion about ASOS (although I think splitting the book was the second best option, the best one was
    to have a 14 episode season).

    Some facts to:
    -Dany is one of the key characters of the show, much more than in the books. No way she’s still in Meereen after two seasons.
    -Sansa, Arya and Bran barely have any material, let alone TV-friendly material: they are isolated, their arcs are more internal than external, and don’t affect the main plot at all.
    -The series has promised several things since season 1: winter, white walkers and dragons. They cannot be delayed forever.

    AFFC/ADWD have a huge number of storylines (anyone thinks the series is already too crowded?), but none of them have enough material for two seasons and a lot of them are about new characters, while the original main characters (should I say ACTUAL main characters) are tossed aside.

  71. Shock Me Sane
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    Pau Soriano,

    Bless you, sweet summer child. Bless you for thinking D&D will spend 9 years on this, or that viewers will keep their attention. Google how many shows have gone 9 years. It is less than 1%. Getting all those actors and producers to sign on such a significant chunk of their life to one show? Not gonna happen. Pray for 7 and count yourself lucky if it happens.

  72. Ned
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    It won’t be 7 seasons, unless they make the seasons longer. It won’t be 10 seasons. It will be 8 or 9, likely 8 … David & Dan have publicly stated 8.

  73. Pau Soriano
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    Also remember that while 9 seasons would be perfect for syndication, 8 would still be possible, but 7 would be highly unlikely. So basically the 8th seasosn would pay itself through the syndication deals.

    The guy says at least 7, so there’s no way it will end up being just 7

  74. oierem
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    A lot of people seem to like the idea of splitting the books (both ASOS and the future unwritten books), but that’s not an easy task, and it doesn’t always work. They need to find suitable arcs for every characters, so randomly saying “season 7 will be the second half of TWOW and parts of ADOD” is foolish (asuming that each book has a logical arc).

    With ASOS, is still too early to decide if the split works or not. Season 3 seems to work, as they are using several events from the middle of the book as climax… but season 4 will be more problematic, as the remaining of ASOS is just a huge third act, without any preparation. (How can they make the battle of the wall the climax of the season if they have no material left for the beginning of the season?).

    So, regarding season 5, the question is, can they create satisfactory arcs for the main characters at least without using the entirety of AFFC/ADWD? I’d say absolutely not (and even if they cover both books some climaxes are still missing).

  75. Cary Storm
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    anuhealani,

    Sounds legit.

  76. Nick Larter
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    anuhealani:
    Since there’s no way season 4 will be “the second half of A Storm of Swords,” as they keep saying, a 7-season estimate sounds pretty bang-on to me.

    S4: Remaining 1/3 of ASOS + 1/3 of AFFC + 1/3 of ADWD
    S5: Remaining 2/3 of AFFC + Remaining 2/3of ADWD
    S6: The Winds of Winter
    S7: A Dream of Spring

    I agree – your breakdown looks good to me!

  77. Shock Me Sane
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    Pau Soriano,

    Kind of curious which channels you think would syndicate this show? Nothing network. Even the Sopranos (which had higher ratings) wasn’t syndication gold because of its nudity and violence. Maybe the cuts would work for advertising breaks, but a lot of stuff would be gone.

  78. Darquemode
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    Shock Me Sane,

    Plus how many heavily serialized shows have been good in syndication?
    Syndication is good for procedural shows… Serial dramas, not so much.

  79. Pau Soriano
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    Shock Me Sane:
    Pau Soriano,

    Bless you, sweet summer child. Bless you for thinking D&D will spend 9 years on this, or that viewers will keep their attention. Google how many shows have gone 9 years. It is less than 1%. Getting all those actors and producers to sign on such a significant chunk of their life to one show? Not gonna happen. Pray for 7 and count yourself lucky if it happens.

    1- I was born in winter

    2- Unfortunatelly I’m closer to retirement than to childhood

    3- D&D can spend 9 years in this no problem, they already stated that they plan on 8 so whats 1 more year?

    4-That proves absolutely nothing…has any of those shows have been the money-making machine that GoT is turning out to be?? How many episodes did those shows have? How many shows have reached the magic number of 88 episodes?? much more than 1% right? right? and only costing 60M$ per year…if one show can reach those 9 seasons is GoT,easy..

    5- What significant part of their lives?? that extra year? plus what actors? actors WANT to keep on working on tv shows, specially ones as good and well paid as this…sheesh, do you think Peter Dinklage is going to get a better role than this EVER again??

  80. WildSeed
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    I don’t think this guy is saying that there will definitively be only 7 seasons if they get that far. I’m more inclined to think he was hedging his bets at 7 seasons because of contracts and not story.D&D said themselves last Summer that they saw the series as an 80 or 90 hour movie, which would require 8 or 9 seasons. I seriously doubt their minds have changed on that.

    I was just about to say just that. Your thoughts echo mine, or vice versa *>*

  81. The mighty hodor
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    Interesting, I believe seven seasons is enough.

    I’ve said to people the show is basically the bones of the story and if you want the rest of the body read the book.

    AFFC and dance can easily combined, they couldn’t do a whole season without, Jon dany and tyrion. They can easily cut Sam, the sandsnakes and maybe someone else’s story out completely, if their story is not crucial to the main plot it is not needed.

    The show is only an hour and you can’t keep cutting between 10+ characters it will slow the pace down, kinda like what is happening now.

    Fans are going to have to learn to let some characters go, we are not going to get a perfect adaptation with every single character from the books!

    As long as they don’t cut the pig jousting!

  82. Streamweaver
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    I love the novels and the show but in all honesty I don’t see any way the show is going to have a definitive ending. Given the track record the books just will never come out in time so things will just kind of end some day for the show and that will be that.

  83. Pau Soriano
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    Shock Me Sane:
    Pau Soriano,

    Kind of curious which channels you think would syndicate this show? Nothing network. Even the Sopranos (which had higher ratings) wasn’t syndication gold because of its nudity and violence. Maybe the cuts would work for advertising breaks, but a lot of stuff would be gone.

    They can cut the nudity as they have done before with other shows. If you don’t think GoT is syndication gold is that u still don’t understand the cultural phenomenom that GoT is…

    And anyway, they make millions and millions on international rights and dvd/bluray sales. They won’t cancel GoT for economic reasons…

  84. Moët
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    Omar Brown:
    Hell, combine AFFC and ADWD, cut the fat, bloat and boring parts and you get two seasons. And that’s being generous.

    I think they could do both books in 1 season to be honest.

  85. Pau Soriano
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    oierem:

    So, regarding season 5, the question is,can they create satisfactory arcs for the main characters at least without using the entirety of AFFC/ADWD? I’d say absolutely not (and even if they cover both books some climaxes are still missing).

    A while ago, and in another thread, someone posted those character arcs for 2 seasons, ending in satisfactory climaxes etc…I wish I would have made a copy of that. Or that someone would do it again here

    But it can be done

  86. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    I can’t think of any live-action drama I’d like to see nine seasons of. Seven is not just conservative; it’s a sane estimate. Even that is a tremendous length. Game of Thrones isn’t a rinse-and-repeat procedural or a jokes-of-the-week sitcom. It has to have a strong dramatic run, and nine seasons would be pushing it in any realm. How long can any show get away with dropping hints towards the inevitable clash of elements GoT promises without delivering? Certainly not nine years. The best shows end strong, and more than most, HBO knows it.

    Sure, we don’t know how TWOW or ADOS will turn out, but nothing about AFFC/ADWD screams two seasons worthy. I’m particularly excited for the production to adapt those novels because they’re much ado about mostly nothing. Sure, there are singular riveting moments, but there isn’t even enough character development to justify a season per, much less consistent and meaningful spectacle to keep the newer fans hooked and begging for more. What we’d get is a season of Stannis scolding Lord Commander Snow into submission, Too Many Martells, Too Many Greyjoys, and Dany getting fucked at a new angle each week by Daario when she’s not busy treading water as a dead end politician. Only streamlining the storylines and some enthusiastic creative liberties will carve those books into watchable television. Of course, I nuuu nuthin’ ’bout TWOW and ADOS. But judging by the runs enjoyed by television’s best dramas to date and the content of AFFC/ADWD, seven seasons isn’t such a mad figure. Perhaps GRRM will disclose even more details to D&D concerning the future of ASOIAF, enough to justify an eighth season. Who knows. All I know is giving AFFC/ADWD twenty episodes of screen time sounds like ten hours too many.

    Also, it’s highly doubtful ADOS will be finished in time for adaptation. Even TWOW isn’t a certainty. The show will most likely have its own finale that precedes the ending of ASOIAF to give the cast (and audience) a proper conclusion in a reasonable timeframe.

  87. Scott Contrera
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    I have never believed that GRRM isn’t way more ahead in these books than he really is; the last book will come out at the same time (within a month or so) as the final season of the show. Book it.

  88. Darquemode
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Yeah I do not think this is a blanket statement for the direction of the series.
    More of an off the cuff remark.

  89. sunspear
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    I agree that 7 seasons wouldn’t be enough. They need at least 8. I didn’t hate AFFC and ADWD nearly as much as a lot of people on here did, and they definitely aren’t as bloated as people like to pretend. This story has always had a huge number of characters whose plot arcs have been fleshed out. Just ending them would have been stupid.

    My plan was:

    Season 4: Final third of ASOS and the beginnings of AFFC and ADWD Feature Dany locking up her dragons, the Kingsmoot, Cersei’s first chapter, Arya in Braavos, and the Bolton’s taking Moat Cailin.

    Season 5: Bulk of AFFC, first half of ADWD. Leave out Sam and Brienne’s last chapters and the prologue for the next season, but include everything else from book 4. End with Dany’s wedding, Tyrion captured by slavers, and Ramsay’s wedding.

    Season 6: Rest of ADWD, part of TWOW. Include the battles of Ice and Fire, plus some other POV’s to fill space.

    Season 7: Rest of TWOW

    Season 8: ADOS

  90. Eric Niewohner
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    I am glad to see the majority of the posts in this thread have a grasp on reality and also recognize that from a quality standpoint books 4 & 5 are inferior to books 1 through 3. ADWD introduced two completely new story lines that could be completely cut as well as Tyrion’s becoming a stereotype. A lot of bloat in ADWD and in AFFC as well. It is really too bad George didn’t jump five years in the future like he originally planned, but then all the money he stood to make by having more books obviously lured him into a bit of writing hubris. Right now the series is collapsing in on it itself under the weight of too many story lines. I do love the series and really hope Martin trims the fat in TWOW and gets back on track and puts something out that is same quality as ASOS.

    Since it took Martin 7 years to get ADWD out after having said he had half of it done when he split AFFC and the fact that he only writes when he is home and given his extensive traveling schedule anybody who thinks he will finish TWOW in less than 4 years is being optimistic. It is too bad really because the first three books came out in six years a nice two year average and that is when Martin was at his best with this series. Then you have an almost five year jump for AFFC and a 7 year jump to ASWS his two worst novels of the series by far. So Martin spending more time writing these books means lower quality books.

    So there is no way George finishes the books before the show catches up and what a conundrum that will be. Has he told D&D how it ends? Would he tell them if he has not? Would he want the show do forge new ground without a book as its source? Does the contract he signed with HBO when he sold his rights to the books allow them to finish the series without a book as the source material?

    So seven seasons seems reasonable and is seven more than I ever expected to get.

  91. Nagga's Kin
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    In the end, HBO isn’t really going to make its decision on how many seasons GoT runs for based on GRRM’s progress with his magnum opus. If the financial numbers still work, we’ll get more than seven even if they have to write the screenplays from scratch. The show’s writing team has a deep understanding of where GRRM is trying to take this saga and is doing a (mostly) excellent job with adapting it to TV. If need be, they will get top-notch reinforcements.

    If for some reason the numbers no longer work, we may not even get seven seasons, even with this statement from the producer. Commercial TV is primarily a business, simple as that.

    What we can take away is that HBO at least intends to remain committed to the show for another four seasons, which is actually fantastic. It wasn’t that long ago that fans were gnashing their teeth about whether we’d actually get a season 1, never mind 2 or 3. If this were on any other channel, we’d not even be talking about anything beyond the next season.

  92. SugarVampire
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    This is a signaling to the fandom that GoT is going to have major diversions from ASoIaF.

    To be fair to D&D, there are more doubt than ever whether TWoW will even be ready for publishing in 2016, now that The World of Fire and Ice has been pushed back to 2014. It is hard to have all the principles available beyond 7 seasons as a Hollywood contract cannot be more than 7 years long. They will have to renegotiate the contracts. Better to make plans now for the massive changes to come.

    In addition, after the publication of ADwD, D&D probably came to a decision to make GoT their own, thus all the changes of storyline in Season 2 and 3. Even the ending might be different as GRRM will probably change that in his final book if he gets around to finish it.

    The production value of GoT is absolutely amazing and the actings, for the most part, were great. The added stories had been the weakness. But with more resources and the undisclosed assurance of at least 7 seasons, D&D might be able to step back and create alternatives that will be satisfying to most fan.

  93. Mike Chair
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    Zack: I would not bet on a break.

    I would. Here’s my wager. If there’s a break (like there is on Curb Your Enthusiasm) then you post “Mike Chair is the Boss of Me.” And if there isn’t you don’t.

    TimeforTravel: If you’re so bitter to say the man can’t even visit a movie, something’s wrong with you.

    Okay, I agree that there’s something wrong with me. I disagree that I’m in any way bitter or that my personal shortcomings that you are intent on exploring are in any way connected to my last post. All I did was state facts and offer a logical (albeit subjective) conclusion. GRRM can take his sweet ass time for all I care. ASOIAF is a great series, but it’s not the only series. There’s Patrick Rothfuss. And Henrik Lundqvist has a 1.65 GAA and a 94.7 save percentage in the post season for Seven’s sake. Go Bs.

  94. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin,

    People seem to forget that pretty. Sure, HBO confirms renewals pretty quickly, but we’re still very much on a season-by-season basis.

    I don’t see HBO artificially lengthening the series either. I’m sure they’d rather have an airtight brand with a moderated run of critically lauded seasons than seasons of filler, which nine seasons sounds dangerously close to regardless of ASOIAF’s future. Even for a show enjoying as much buzz as GoT, captivating audiences for seven seasons would be a herculean feat.

  95. Coltaine777
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    superdeluxe: 7 seasons? Boo.

    100 % agree…

  96. Matt Chung
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    Why do some people seem to be under the impression that D&D ever had plans to split AFFC and ADWD into separate seasons? Hello! Why the hell would they do that? They are pretty much one and the same novel, just split in half. To think that they would ever split the characters by location is just… urgh, it would be the most terrible bit of TV in existence.

  97. sunspear
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

    Alex Dubrovsky,

    Not going to lie, this sounds horrible.

    -Really, you don’t understand why fan-favorite character Arya was cut out for two books so she could come back with ridiculous assassin skills that would need to be explained in flashbacks anyway?

    -Jaime’s scenes dueling Ser Ilyn and confronting Lancel are important.

    -Leaving out Quentyn ruins Doran’s plan, and any fallout that will happen in TWOW after he got torched.

    -Cutting out Arianne’s plan means you might as well cut Dorne out entirely.

    Pau Soriano,

    No. Premium cable, as a rule, don’t usually syndicate there shows. A&E tried it with the Sopranos, and it was a massive failure for them.

  98. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    Eric Niewohner,

    I get the impression he imparted the broad strokes of ASOIAF to D&D and Bryan Cogman at their latest meeting of the minds. Cogman might have mentioned it on the Game of Owns podcast he was on a few weeks ago. Highly recommend it, it’s one of their most insightful and informative episodes, even for readers, since Cogman is such a great interviewee.

    Yes, HBO can have its way with ASOIAF, for better or worse. I lean towards “for better,” both because I agree AFFC/ADWD are the weakest links in the great chain of Ice and Fire yet and because there really is no universe I can imagine where TWOW and ADOS are out before the series catches up to them. HBO can (and I’m almost certain they will) conclude GoT on their schedule. Their first duty is to their viewers.

  99. WildSeed
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    Pau Soriano:
    Also remember that while 9 seasons would be perfect for syndication, 8 would still be possible, but 7 would be highly unlikely. So basically the 8th seasosn would pay itself through the syndication deals.

    The guy says at least 7, so there’s no way it will end up being just 7

    Greetings Winter’s Child *>* . While it’s understood that shows like GoT tend to be
    be viewed the same time each year, it doesn’t reflect the actual production schedule.
    I’m also under the impression that televised season installments of a series does not
    equate to a year or speak the same for actors being employed for that stretch of time.
    So it could mean that actor contracts are shorter than we realize, and possibly
    the hands on approach by the exec producers as well ( if I’m thinking this through
    correctly ).

    I hope the project commitment continues as long as passion fuels it.
    ASOIAF remains a compelling book series to adapt, there is no lack of material.
    Whatever steps are taken for this adaptation , the product remains a measured
    success, in as much can be done to bring an epic book series to screen. Martin
    did say that he wrote an unproduce-able book series. It’s been interesting thus far.

  100. Turncloak
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    Thank God. I think most of us can agree that AFFC/ADWD needs some serious editing to cut out the fat. I can see both of these books being adapted in a season and half.

    Dany’s Meereen arc: BAAAARFFF

  101. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    Pau Soriano: A while ago, and in another thread, someone posted those character arcs for 2 seasons, ending in satisfactory climaxes etc…I wish I would have made a copy of that. Or that someone would do it again here

    Or they could condense it and make one powerful season of television. :)

    As S3E4 demonstrates, mid-season climaxes are a wonderful way to keep the year’s crop of episodes engaging. Honestly, that’s half the wonder of the show. There’s intrigue, there’s drama, but there’s also sheer spectacle informed by the surprisingly compelling reality the rest of the series’ elements create. You need those events to punctuate the season, not simply end them in a penultimate episode orgasm with a cooldown episode to follow. Storylines should be dynamic. Even a great storyline will seem static if you take too long to tell it. This is what ultimately extinguished my fervor for ADWD after I didn’t know what to think of AFFC.

  102. Eor!
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    Mike Chair: Tuesday night he went to see The Great Gatsby.Yesterday, he was pushing Wild Cards again.He’s not secretive about these things.He blogs (not) about them regularly.Short response: by all available evidence, he’s not moving on TWOW very fast.Next year?HA!Seven Seasons?Not in a row.

    He doesn’t update on the progress of his asoiaf books after A Dance with Dragons, so no news really is just no news

  103. WildSeed
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    The powers that be at HBO have demonstrated quick season renewals for some
    of their cable series, and some they do not ( not sure of the protocol perquisites or
    patterns as a whole ). Otherwise, what you say is quite feasible . HBO is a
    business and watches the bottom $ line and peer awards.

  104. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    Dany’s Meereen arc: BAAAARFFF

    More like arch. [badum-TSH!]

    Totally pulling this out of my butt, but a “faithful” two season treatment of those books would probably yield this:

    Season 6, Episode 6
    Synopsis: Wun Wun develops a liking for wine. Selyse Baratheon learns the perils of yellow snow. Ramsay Bolton plays pin-the-cock-on-the-Reek. Daenerys tries “the piledriver.”

  105. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    Eor!,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUp_RtzYMhk
    It’s from about month and a half ago. He says he’s about 1/4 way in, and it probably includes whatever he transferred from ADWD. ADWD was completed in April 2011. Do the math.

  106. WildSeed
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    Thank God. I think most of us can agree that AFFC/ADWD needs some serious editing to cut out the fat. I can see both of these books being adapted in a season and half.

    Dany’s Meereen arc: BAAAARFFF

    LOL, Mereen was almost tolerable once you made it through Qarth .

  107. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    For the benefit of the posting public, I try to speak in reasonable generalizations whenever possible. I understand there are no absolutes there. Only too well…

    R.I.P. Carnivale. :(

    Barring a severe ratings dip, I think HBO’s decisions will be pretty predictable. Maybe they’ll surprise us with the best made-for-TV movie of all time. It’s fun to dream.

  108. Juego de Tronos
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    I hope that this be only speculation, because 7 seasons are insufficient!

  109. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed: LOL, Mereen was almost tolerable once you made it through Qarth .

    We tawkin’ show Qarth or book Qarth? Because I only have issues with one, and it’s not a fair comparison to book Meereen.

  110. Brandon Stark
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

    Good. The series will need to significantly cut the story to make it palatable to TV viewers. Frankly, I could use some cutting already. Spending 3 minutes with each character once a week doesn’t constitute compelling television.

    For the people saying, “It needs 10 years…”: Name me a show like this that has lasted 10 seasons. It’s not Friends.

  111. Pau Soriano
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    If they reach 7 seasons they can perfectly do 8. I think D&D are definitelly thinking about an 8/9 seasons show, while HBO is thinking about 7 because that is what they have signed the mains for , and that makes more sense productionwise. Anyway, those mains like Dillane that came on board on the second season also got 7y deals right? So the main difficulty would be to extend the contracts of those actors that were mains on the first season and that are still alive on the 8th. We’ll see how many are those :P

    Anyway, I guess the writers will have to know more or less in a year, because depending on how manys seasons are there will change dramatically what will be on season 5. So we’ll know soon enough ;)

  112. Conor
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    Shock Me Sane,

    Totally agree. Also fans and especially diehard book fans need to start realising that the show will end before book 7 is published (possibly even book 6 knowing how painfully slow GRRM writes). Be grateful to D&D and HBO for delivering the best show on TV today (by some distance). There is so much filler in books 4 & 5 that they can easily be one season.

    Finally everyone knows that D&D and Cogman now know how the story ultimately ends. So that allows them to structure seasons 4-7 correctly without needing books 6 & 7 completed.

    I am a diehard book fan and also huge fan of the show (I even loved ep 307!) and 7 or 8 seasons should be enough time to tell the complete saga.

  113. WildSeed
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,
    I meant to reply GoT segment of Qarth, as barely tolerable to sit through.
    Sadly, I don’t recall book Meereen in detail. I was so wowed by TV Krasnys, I’ve
    forgotten momentarily.

    I guess I’m referencing the GoT Qarth, other than meeting Quaithe, I was
    quite bored with the the segment. The costumes were great, as were familiar
    names, but not the dialogue . GoT Meereen with Krasnys on board, was
    definitely not boring. I hope Hildebrand gets a nod for guest actor award.

  114. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    AngryRosFan,

    not a fan of the Ironborn, and I hope they keep it mostly to Theon and “Asha” whom they’ve already introduced

    I totally agree. I just couldn’ t find myself caring about their story but I do think they will end up playing important roles in the finale (just my opinion, no factual basis for it).

  115. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    I really, really hope they give Quaithe one of her proper pop-ins, so to speak. They were super creepy in the books.

    I’m still in affected disbelief over his performance. Considering his role in Sons of Anarchy… wow. I was VERY impressed at his transformation. Like Emilia Clarke, he really owned the bastard Valyrian he was given. Everyone has handled Peterson’s handiwork admirably this season.

  116. Mike Chair
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    Eor!: He doesn’t update on the progress of his asoiaf books after A Dance with Dragons, so no news really is just no news

    True. I guess my point is that it appears that he’s going about his life so we should go about ours (I’m sure he would agree with that). The optimist in me is hoping that, sometime in the near future, right after one of his “I’m in Sri Lanka” or “The Patriots Suck” posts he posts that TWOW has a release date. But the optimist in me also hopes the Bruins will sweep the Rangers. Obviously, the optimist in me has a better shot with the Bruins. Go Bs.

  117. Pau Soriano
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    Brandon Stark:
    Name me a show like this that has lasted 10 seasons.

    “There’s no other show like this. Only this”

    ;)

  118. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ,

    I actually like Euron a decent bit, regardless of my general opinion of the Greyjoy arcs. Who doesn’t like a frightening supernatural pirate?

  119. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    I have always thought 8 seasons was perfect. My outline went like this:

    Season 4: ASOS/AFFC/ADWD
    Season 5: AFFC/ADWD
    Season 6: ADWD/TWOW
    Season 7: TWOW
    Season 8: ADOS( Hopefully a 12 episode final season)

    George would have to release TWOW by 2016 and ADOS by 2018 to avoid the show passing him. I don’t see a way that he finishes ADOS by 2018, so it is inevitable that the show will surpass him, barring a delay in filming.

  120. ATBoz
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp: More like arch. [badum-TSH!]

    Totally pulling this out of my butt, but a “faithful” two season treatment of those books would probably yield this:

    Season 6, Episode 6
    Synopsis: Wun Wun develops a liking for wine. Selyse Baratheon learns the perils of yellow snow. Ramsay Bolton plays pin-the-cock-on-the-Reek. Daenerys tries “the piledriver.”

    first time I’ve actually LOL’d at a comment here, holy hell

  121. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

    JonathanL,

    JonathanL,

    Even 1 season, The thing is most of the major caracter are always at the same place doing nothing exciting, like Dany, Jon, Cercei, Tyrion is moving but doing nothing, Brien is dull, so maybe instead of doing it in 1 season and half why not adding 3 or 4 episodes for the season 5, i think it will be the best deal, 13 episodes.

    I always thought that the decision to cut the fourth book in half was the worst decision ever, not from george but from the editor, because in my opinion when he decide to cut it he had in his hands 2 unfinished books and that maybe he did not wanted to have book way shorter than the previous 3 so he had to fill in the blank pages with things that dit not matter really, and in book 5 he had to do the same but way more.

    I think that the book would have been better if he had not cut it in 2 books.

    Also I’m sure that they decided to release the 5 book only 1 month after the end of season 1 on tv, to recapture the lost fans who were tired of waiting for the book, so maybe the book was finished some month or a year before that.

    Whats your opinion on that.

  122. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    My beef with the Greyjoys is due mostly to Victarion. He is my absolute least favorite character. Euron is mysterious, which at least makes him interesting. I find nothing interesting about hard ass Victarion.

  123. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    ATBoz,

    Ever try the Twitter or Facebook recaps? I ignored the tweet posts until this year, but man was I missing out. Great stuff if you’re looking for the funny side of the fandom.

  124. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Hear hear. Although his inclusion suggests he goes places, he’s like another Stannis in his rigid demeanor. There can only be one stick in the mud!

  125. Nic
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    The Battle of Meereen, which will take place at the beginning of TWOW, would make a good finale for season 5.

    Season 6 Dany lands in Westeros and slays her rivals, if they haven’t already killed each other.

    Season 7 Dany and Jon sing their song of ice and fire and and do battle with the wights (or alternatively take opposing sides and destroy each other, with Sansa taking the iron throne ;-)

  126. Mimsy
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

    Brandon Stark: For the people saying, “It needs 10 years…”: Name me a show like this that has lasted 10 seasons. It’s not Friends.

    Exactly.. tv GOT can only drag out the throne outcome for so many years before it becomes silly with everyone getting long in the tooth. As much as I love the GOT universe, there is an urgency for naming a King/Queen. Now if HBO wants a spin off or continuation… well.. I’ll be happy to watch Arya marry Gendry and rule Storms End. Damn it! This is my happy ending.. so :P

  127. Nic
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

    One way of squeezing some more time out of the show is for HBO to re-think the whole 10 episode per season quota. Up it to 12 episodes from S5 onwards, or have a feature length opening and closing episode per season, and they might just fit everything in.

    edit: I see others have already suggested this above, whoops!

  128. Quebecois
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

    I always tought GRRM got lost in book 4 and 5, after the destruction of storm of swords. AFFC and ADWD feels like threading water, until we get to the war with the white walkers wich seems to be the main event of the entire run of books. So if you want to streamline the story to get to the point, you need to make massive cuts and changes to both 4 and 5, integrating elements of each into next season and keeping the best bits for season 5, using it as a built up to season 6 and 7.

  129. feyrband
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    what he meant to say was… seven seasons

  130. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    Eric Niewohner,

    Has he told D&D how it ends?

    Both in the audio interview of D&D on the previous post and from a Brian Cogman interview, GRRM did tell D&D the ending of the series. That’s why I think there is no way the show will present the same ending as the books IF GRRM doesn’t finish in time. So if D&D intend to use the same ending as the books, which I think is their intention, then one of three things has to happen:

    1. GRRM finishes the last two books in time for final season of TV show (however many seasons that takes I haven’t a clue)
    2. D&D stretch out the story including, what many feel, are the pretty awful story lines that need to be cut
    3. They skip a year to give GRRM more time

    I think it’s their intention to use the same ending because they have repeatedly stated they consult George on any deviations to ensure that whatever they are doing does not affect the ultimate end of who sits on the throne. If they were just going to do something different at the end, why bother consulting him?

    I just don’t see them finishing the show before GRRM finishes his books AND using the same ending. I can’t see GRRM allowing that to happen. He’s spent decades on this story and if I was in his shoes there would be no way in hell I would let someone else reveal the end UNLESS I died before I could write it.

    If D&D don’t intend to use the same end, then they can make up whatever end they want. Then book readers won’t get spoiled and they can cut the fluff from the books improving the flow and excitement level of the series. I think this is the least likely scenario, however.

  131. HOGANUNDERSTAAANDS
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    If S4 includes AFFC, (to me) this sort of confirms Margaery’s being found guilty and sentenced to death, no? I only speculate because thus far Dormer has only been contracted for 3 seasons. I realize that her contract could be extended but Cunningham has a 6 season one, and I don’t think we’ve seen a starring cast member sit a season out yet. I dunno, as a Marg fan this feels a bit foreboding…

  132. Selmy
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    The Stark kids ages doesn’t mean nothing to me, I can get past it as I’m sure a lot of fans can too. I heard somewhere that AFFC won’t be the latter half of season 4, and with the way they are stretching this season, I bet season 4 will only be ASOS part 2. They have a lot to cover and a lot of explaining to do.

    So here’s my breakdown:

    Season 4 – ASOS part 2
    Season 5 – AFFC 3/4 – ADWD 3/4 ( or all of it )
    Season 6 – AFFC 1/4 – ADWD 1/4, TWOW 3/4 (or all of it)
    Season 7 – TWOW 1/4 – ADOS

    It is possible to do it in 7 seasons, but I would prefer 8 seasons, to giveit time to breathe properly.

    SPOILERS – SPOILERS – SPOILERS – SPOILERS – SPOILERS (You should not even be here on a topic about the books)

    I don’t think they will cut Quentyn, they will probably make him encounter Tyrion (Gendry/Edric Storm style), and then Dany meets him.
    Young Griff’s future depends on the 2 next books, if his only role his stirring shit, they make give that to the Martells.
    Tyrion’s storyline will be the most changed, I think. And with reason.
    Euron and Victarion, which one will live, which one will never be.

  133. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    The problem with AFFC and ADWD, even if combined into a single season, is that they would make for extremely disjointed television. If some people are finding the chopping and changing in ASOS annoying they aint seen nothing yet!

    I have read AFFC and ADWD combined and, despite the frustrations, found it fairly interesting. But translating it directly would make for HORRIBLE television. So lots and lots of storylines will have to be shortened, character arcs will have to overlap more and the pacing will have to be urgent for it to be turned into compelling television.

    At least D&D have been told where GRRM’s baby is heading though – with that knowledge, maybe, just maybe they’ll be able to cut through the crap and tell the stories that really matter. With this in mind, I see a layout of:

    Season 4: ASOS + AFFC (Kingsmoot for sure) + ADWD bits
    Season 5: AFFC + ADWD + battle for Meereen. 12 episodes if possible.
    Season 6: TWOW
    Season 7 : ADOS

    If it turns out that Martin still has a lot well planned out and 12 episode seasons are impossible, I can perhaps see things being revised to:

    Season 4: ASOS + AFFC (Kingsmoot for sure)
    Season 5: AFFC + ADWD
    Season 6: ADWD + TWOW
    Season 7 : TWOW +ADOS
    Season 8: ADOS

    But I imagine the former case (even without 12 episodes) is more likely than the latter.

  134. House Snow
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    Yeah its defininitely a mistake to think of books in their entirety since large chunks of certain book are already being moved ahead. The grey joy stuff in particular will be way ahead of the books so that one hurdle already cleared. And I really expect all the martell stuff including possible Quentyn and mareen to be essentially condensed to season 5 so thats another huge chunk right there.So i really doesn’t seem that farfetched to me.

  135. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    Spoilers obviously:

    Yeah, it’s the long, time-wasting journeying that eats up so much of AFFC+ADWD page-time. A lot of these journeys are a waste of time on tv.

    Quentyn’s travels don’t need to be shown – just show him leaving, being sent by Doran and then next show him arriving at Dany’s. The stuff in the middle is filler that should be cut. Likewise with Brienne, just skip all the pointless stuff in the middle of her futile journey and cut to the BwB.

    Then there’s Tyrion. His journey should be covered, but it should be massively shortened. Young Griff is ok, but no one really cares about his interactions with Penny. Showrunners should fast forward through to meeting Jorah and then to meeting the Second Sons / Dany (depending on where this story is heading).

    Dany should be deemphasised and be shown to be losing her way in Meereen without getting too involved with the politics of it all (which few will care about). A lot can be cut from her story too. Dorne should only be focused on when their influence will be significant down the line. The Myrcella plot should either be removed or massively condensed.

    Basically, someone’s going to have to take a hacksaw to the whole story, unfortunately. Keeping the resulting story pretty will be a major challenge – there’s no two ways about it. But like a fool…I believe! ;)

  136. hargrind
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    I’m so glad to hear that. I’ve been a long time advocate of finishing ADWD/AFFC by season 5 and this makes it sound very probable. Most of all, it shakes up some fans out of the misguided dream that

    a) they would actually ever show Dany in Meereen for 3 seasons doing absolutely nothing

    and

    b) that they would actually slow the show down to a crawl so that GRRM might maybe someday finish the books.

    GRRM is unfortunately completely unreliable and we’re talking about a show that costs a criminally large amount of money. Yes, there is a hype at the moment, but this hype can easily be killed and dragging out the story with the full weight of the last two books would exactly accomplish that.You can give George four or five extra years and you could never be certain that he would be finished by then. All we can hope for now is that TWOW comes out by 2015 – but the show will definitely end before even 100 pages of ADOS are written.

  137. Daniel
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    This seems fair.

    Anyone arguing that AFFC and ADWD can become two seasons is out of their mind. I don’t even think they’ll make one season with those two. Think about it, ADWD ends with a series of cliffhangers for every character. Not good for a TV show, so the 5th season will probably be AFFC+ADWD+1/3 of TWOW.

    As for Season 4, I’m certain that Theon’s story in ADWD will be moved forward. Who wants to see another season of him being tortured? Dany’s as well. But the rest.. think about it, so much happens in the latter half of ASOS that it can easily be a whole season.

    This leaves TWOW and ADOS 2 seasons of their own. This will be more than enough! We saw what happens when a book is split into two with this season.

  138. Michael
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    Alex Dubrovsky,

    Do you even like ASOIAF?

  139. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

    Family, Duty, Hodor,

    Let us be fools together! [dons his silly hat]

  140. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    Family, Duty, Hodor,

    Hi can you tell the order of the chapter you read it, or if there is a place that tell it.

    thanks

  141. Jim
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

    Ser Ludogg,

    Well, not a lot really happens in AFFC. Other than the Kingsmoot in the Iron Islands, off the top of my head i can’t think of much else that really happens in that book of any importance.

  142. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

    Family, Duty, Hodor:
    The problem with AFFC and ADWD, even if combined into a single season, is that they would make for extremely disjointed television. If some people are finding the chopping and changing in ASOS annoying they aint seen nothing yet!

    I have read AFFC and ADWD combined and, despite the frustrations, found it fairly interesting. But translating it directly would make for HORRIBLE television. So lots and lots of storylines will have to be shortened, character arcs will have to overlap more and the pacing will have to be urgent for it to be turned into compelling television.

    At least D&D have been told where GRRM’s baby is heading though – with that knowledge, maybe, just maybe they’ll be able to cut through the crap and tell the stories that really matter. With this in mind, I see a layout of:

    Season 4: ASOS + AFFC (Kingsmoot for sure) + ADWD bits
    Season 5: AFFC + ADWD + battle for Meereen. 12 episodes if possible.
    Season 6: TWOW
    Season 7 : ADOS

    If it turns out that Martin still has a lot well planned out and 12 episode seasons are impossible, I can perhaps see things being revised to:

    Season 4: ASOS + AFFC (Kingsmoot for sure)
    Season 5: AFFC + ADWD
    Season 6: ADWD + TWOW
    Season 7 : TWOW +ADOS
    Season 8: ADOS

    But I imagine the former case (even without 12 episodes) is more likely than the latter.

    Hi, could you tell me in wich orger you read to the book combined or if there is a place to tell how to read it.

    thanks

    Also, do you think the initial version of the book 4 that was too big to be release will have been better, because it was written as the GRRM wanted it to be, not like the editor eanted it, it must be hard for an author to have to change his work.

  143. Natalie
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    Ehh I wouldn’t read too much into it. I remember when the creator of Smallville said he saw it lasting 5 seasons and that lasted 10. As long as its profitable it will last.

  144. Natalie
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    Ehh I wouldn’t read too much into it. I remember when the creator of Smallville said he saw it lasting 5 seasons and that lasted 10.

  145. Rhaego Worldmounter
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    Any man who says they should cut the Greyjoy uncles I’ll feed you to the sea. I live to see Victarion & Moqorro on a ship infested w/ monkeys.

    Dorne, too, is necessary (though boring to me).

    Dany dithering in Mereen is the really egregious time waster.

  146. Natali
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    I wouldn’t read to much into it. I remember when the creator of Smallville said he could see it lasting 5 seasons and it ended up lasting 10. It’s way to early for anyone who say how long it’s going to last. Even the creators.

  147. Jim
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    The Young Wolf,

    In six years GOT will have been over for two years, by the seven season reckoning.

    1 – Done
    2 – Done
    3 – Almost done.
    4 – Forthcoming
    5 – Forthcoming
    6 – Forthcoming
    7 – Forthcoming

    The kids’ll all be four years older, sure, but there’s no stopping that without continually shooting all the books in a straight line year-round until the story’s done. Which is impossible considering how long it takes GRRM to write these books combined with the fact that the last book isn’t even a whisper yet and we have no idea what progress has been made on book 6.

    One way or another, we’re looking at the Stark kids as 19-20 year olds any way you slice it.. if that considering the possibility of the show catching up to Martin and being left with nothing to do for years on end while he finishes up (In which case HBO will probably can the series rather than sit in limbo). Not that i really mind GRRM taking his time, better to have a readable book than more of that D&D-novel crap on the bookshelves.

    Just the realities. You can’t stop kids from growing up (And Martin can’t just pump out books like a card dealer).

  148. elvin
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

    The Young Wolf,

    I don’t see it as a problem. The show and the books are telling the same story, just differently. Time lapse is probably going to be different in the show. Plus, we (the viewers) are growing up with the cast, which I think makes the characters more real.

  149. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,
    who doesnt like a supernatural pirate

    Aaargh, you’ve got me there matey! /sorry couldn’t resist

  150. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    Quebecois,

    Je crois que le principal problème de GRRM a été de devoir séparer son livre en 2. j’e m’explique le livre 3 est sorti en 2000, encuite il a commencé l’écriture du 4e, durant au moins 1 an il a écrit avec le concept du saut de 5 ans dans le temps, ensuite a recommencé du début parce que ca ne marchait pas. Durant 3 ans il écrit le 4e qui finit par être le plus long de la série, comme il est trop long son éditeur lui demande de prendre un décision, soit réduire la longeur, ou le couper en 2. Il choisit de le couper en 2 mais géographiquement ce qui a du lui demander beaucoup de temps, changer certaines choses ajouter des chapitre pour que ca n’est pas l’air juste d’une moitié de livre non plus.

    J’imagine qu’après ca il a du prendre un petit repos avec toute les difficultés qu’il a eu a écrire le livre, ensuite il a écrit le 5e et encore une fois n’a pas pu travailler aussi librement qu’avant a cause des contraintes du 4e livre. Je crois aussi qu’ils ont retarder la sorti du 5e pour correspondre avec la fin de la 1er saison télé pour raviver l’engoument perdu par plusieurs fans de la saga après un 4e livre décevant, je ne dis pas qu’ils ont repousser la sorti du livre de 2 ans mais peut-être 1 an.

    Une chose est sure j’aimerai bien voir le manuscrit original du 4e livre.

  151. elvin
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    I hope HBO is setting aside money for when Daenerys finally rides Drogon

  152. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    Alexandre Boivin,

    Hey, I used the BoiledLeather guide I think. I may have made slight adjustments to it based on recommendations, but from what I remember it’s very good as is:

    http://boiledleather.com/post/25902554148/a-new-reader-friendly-combined-reading-order-for-a

    @WompWomp: Yay, fools for ever!

  153. GeekFurious
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    I was talking to a friend of mine about this the other day and we thought it might only be 7 or 8 seasons. Part of that thinking revolves around the fact that the writers met with Martin to find out where the story was going in books he hasn’t finished writing yet. To us that said, at least partly, that they were thinking the show would come to an end sooner than some of us have expected.

    So, 7 or 8 seasons, not 9. Things will have to accelerate following season 4 anyway, since books 4 and 5 are essentially one book.

  154. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ,

    Yarrrgh, I got a good groan out of that one. [laughs]

    Alexandre Boivin,

    Bravo! Je suis totalement d’accord!

    Natali,

    Unlike GoT, Smallville could meander as much as it wanted, and could have gone in any number of directions with the DC stable of characters. Sure, Clark was always going to become Superman, but they could take all the creative detours they wanted without subverting too many expectations or concrete source material.

  155. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

    elvin,

    Ditto. Let’s hope they divert all the funds they could be using towards Daenerys riding Daario. #muchadoaboutmeereen

  156. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    Je crois que maintenant avec le livre 4 et 5 il a mis les pièces en place et on va surement voir certain personnage se regrouper ou mourir pour avoir moins de pov différent, comme jaime-brienne, asha-théon et surement d’autres, il pourrait garder des personnages ensemble, mais avoir des fois le pov de brienne et des fois celui de jaime, ou peut-être qu’il va en tuer quelque’uns.

    est-ce qu’il y a un moyen de se parler plus directement?

  157. Joh
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    I think 7 seasons may be sufficient, but they should make longer seasons if they want to remain faithful to the books if they don’t want to cut.

  158. NewJeffCT
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

    I think I stated this on here before.

    2014 Season 4 will finish A Storm of Swords, and start FFC and ADWD
    2015 Season 5 will finish FFC and get most of the way through ADWD
    2016 Season 6 will finish ADWD and start WoW
    2017 Season 7 will finish WoW
    2018 – long time between seasons, filled with Tales of Dunk & Egg
    2019 Season 9 will be A Dream of Spring, an extended 13+ episode season.

  159. Lord Elrosir
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    NewJeffCT,

    LOL. Really?

    Dream on brother. Dream on!

  160. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    i wanted to talk to someone in private but i dont know how to?

    thanks

  161. Magnar of Thenn
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

    Has anyone discussed the possibility that most of the main actors might only be contracted up to season 6 or 7. Once some of these contracts are up, there will be quite a few people in position to demand a big pay raise. This will add to production costs, and at some point will become unsermountable.

  162. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    Alexandre Boivin,

    Désolé, je parle un peu français. Je comprend tes points.

    I don’t think so. This isn’t a full-featured forum, so there is no private messaging option I am aware of.

  163. Joh
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

    In my opinion, they should consider turning the next season at the same time because of the actors who play Bran, Arya, they grow too fast. They can shoot some scene sows now anticipate growth. It’s just a idea.

  164. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    no poeple that i know have red all the books so i can’t never talked with someone about the book and what i think about them, in french.

    As for the book 6 i suspect that some caracter will die in the incoming battles, in the north and meeren and we will move totally away from meeren, dany is gone with drogon and the iron island poeple will steal 1 or 2 of them.

  165. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    Joh,

    Honestly, just worried about Bran and Rickon growing at this point. The others changing may not matter as much.

  166. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    Joh,

    yeah good idea, bran in particular,SPOILERSSPOILERS but we don’t even what he will look like after book 5, not even human again, and i suspect that we never see rickon full face or long enough to remember what he look like so they can replace him by another actor when he will be too old, as for arya with what happen to her they can say that she can also change her apparence as well as her face.SPOILERSSPOILERS

  167. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    Alexandre Boivin,

    Sorry to hear that. It’s so fun discussing the books. That must be a bit frustrating. I’m sure there are French language forums dedicated to the books.

    If you are on a computer (not a phone), could you edt your comment to include spoiler tags? It’s a general rule to hide spoilers in the comments in the black bars.

  168. QueenofThorns
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    AFFC and ADWD have a ton of cuttable material, I think. D&D also said in an earlier interview that they weren’t planning on making the world much bigger than it is at the end of season 3… whcih would necessarily mean that they are cutting a ton of the new characters introduced in the last two books.

    I’m ok with it, personally. Less wandering to and fro – TV viewers are sick of that this season, and this is nothing compared to the wandering of A Feast With Dragons

  169. Joh
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    I read all the books and I’m also worried about how they will manage all the intrigues knowing that the sixth and seventh books are not yet finished.

  170. DH87
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

    anuhealani: Well, tough luck for him because it’s not like the show is going to stop production just because he doesn’t have the next book out.

    Just for argument’s sake, GRRM could serve as head writer for Season 8, stop working on whatever book he was working on, assign episodes to writers, write three or four himself, and basically solve the major plot dilemmas one way or another (perhaps offering alternative endings, as seems to be probably with True Blood and its books). The series could also end with the books’ ending reserved for a feature-length film, to follow two years after the show winds up. Stranger things have happened.

  171. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    Joh,

    They can kidnap GRRM put him in a room until he finish his book.

  172. DH87
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    rikon: they might be some contructual difficulaties with some actors that might make planning beyond Season 7 risky,

    If the actors’ contracts are up, they can still return as “guest stars” to keep their story arcs going in Season 8. Since even leads are often getting no more than 6 minutes per ep of air time, it would be possible with enough advanced planning.

  173. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

    Joh,

    Yeah, it’s too early for me to speculate on this since the books aren’t even out yet, but I’m hopefully for the adaptation of books 4 and 5. The show can only make them better

  174. Lord Elrosir
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    Just for argument’s sake, GRRM is never going to be ‘head writer’ on GoT. D&D would never allow him to have THAT kind of power, and neither would any other Executive Producer.

  175. Joh
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    Yeah, I hope that they’ll find a solution to keep making good work.

  176. Arkash
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

    I take it as “at least 7 seasons”.

  177. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

    Alexandre Boivin,

    Alexandre, you’re more than welcome to discuss A Song of Ice and Fire here with us, but I also found a French language forum on the subject. I’m sure there are more, I’ve seen them.

    http://letronedeferjce.forumactif.com/forum

    Also, spoiler tags are a button that inserts code into a comment. The result looks like this: Voilà!

  178. The Queen's Hand
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

    They will probably continue to dumb down the story until they can jam it into 7 seasons.

  179. The Queen's Hand
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    Family, Duty, Hodor:
    Spoilers obviously:

    Yeah, it’s the long, time-wasting journeying that eats up so much of AFFC+ADWD page-time. A lot of these journeys are a waste of time on tv.

    Quentyn’s travels don’t need to be shown – just show him leaving, being sent by Doran and then next show him arriving at Dany’s. The stuff in the middle is filler that should be cut. Likewise with Brienne, just skip all the pointless stuff in the middle of her futile journey and cut to the BwB.

    Then there’s Tyrion. His journey should be covered, but it should be massively shortened. Young Griff is ok, but no one really cares about his interactions with Penny. Showrunners should fast forward through to meeting Jorah and then to meeting the Second Sons / Dany (depending on where this story is heading).

    Dany should be deemphasised and be shown to be losing her way in Meereen without getting too involved with the politics of it all (which few will care about). A lot can be cut from her story too. Dorne should only be focused on when their influence will be significant down the line. The Myrcella plot should either be removed or massively condensed.

    Basically, someone’s going to have to take a hacksaw to the whole story, unfortunately. Keeping the resulting story pretty will be a major challenge – there’s no two ways about it. But like a fool…I believe! ;)

    Seriously? You think they should show Quentyn leaving then have him magically arrive across the world 10 minutes later? Come on dude, the story is already… adapted… to low IQs enough.

  180. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    Lord Elrosir,

    Let’s not needlessly antagonize D&D or play up a non-existent power struggle. GRRM’s contract limits him to a producing and advising role. Of course he’ll never be head writer; that’s not his job.

    Joh,

    Not everyone here will be pleased, but I am optimistic.

    Arkash,

    Glass half full, eh?

  181. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

    The Queen’s Hand,

    Can one dumb down what’s already dangerously middling?

  182. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    Arkash,

    I take it this way too, because if the show have still high rating by that time and they are sure that GRRM will release the book in time they cannot possibly finish the show before the book, so they must be in collaboration at some point, like if he say to them that he will release TWOW next year, then they can have hope he will finish the ADOS in time too, but if by 2015 TWOW is not finish, we all the reader will be fucked up really bad, and we all know he must redeem himself for making us wait so longi can’t wait 5 more years to learn what really happen to jon, what is so terrible where davos was sent, will stannis win the battle, what happen to jaime, what’s the plan of littlefinger, dany, the battle of meeren

    about episode 10 do you think the season will end with joeffrey death, or do you think it will finish.

  183. Bannerless Bro
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    I haven’t looked over all the comments, but haven’t anyone thought that maybe they are finally getting more episodes per season? I can totally see a AFFC/ADWD season with 15 (longer) episodes.

  184. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

    Alexandre Boivin,

    I think it will happen in the middle of next season, or a little earlier.

  185. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

    The Queen’s Hand,

    not 10 min later but some episode later, or we can see him traveling for somme episode.

  186. Joh
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    The Queen’s Hand,

    I understand your disappointment but we’re lucky that the books have not been adapted to film. I admit, the serie is not perfect but it’s still one of the best fantasy book adaptation. I think GRRM would not let the producer wreck his work.

  187. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    yeah maybe but how to wnd this seasondany taking meeren, the reveal of stoneheart, but how should finish season 4, by the death of tywin, the escape of tyrion, or the reveal of stoneheart, what do you think

  188. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

    Alexandre Boivin,

    I think this season will end with Beric reviving Catelyn, creating Stoneheart, which we do not see in the books. We see Beric feels sorry for Arya, so I think we’ll see him try to help her by bringing her mother back to life the way he couldn’t help Ned.

    I also believe Dany will take Yunkai in Episode 10 this year. Tyrion’s escape from prison will probably happen near the end of the next season (after his and Joffrey’s weddings), and I can see S4 ending with Tyrion returning to kill Tywin. The big event next season will be the Battle at the Wall. It’s going to be another big year!

  189. KG
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:44 pm | Permalink

    Be grateful it’s popular enough to have been renewed through FOUR seasons, you greedy twits.

  190. DH87
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp: Of course he’ll never be head writer; that’s not his job.

    I should have phrased my hypothetical as “D&D could hire GRRM to serve as head writer for Season 8.” I know it sounds far-fetched. If GRRM hadn’t been a successful screenwriter before D&D were born, it would be laughable. The alternative will be to attempt to take these characters in directions that will make sense chronologically, politically, philosophically, geographically, genre-specifically, with minimal direction from GRRM on a schedule that has accommodated only ten episodes a year with ready source material.

    This isn’t like writing a new season of Sex in the City, where four crazy gals do little more than bedhop and wear designer shoes.

    If we are of hopeful inclination, we can hope that GRRM has seen Charlaine Harris’s book sales go from 2 million copies to 30 million copies over the five-year life of True Blood and consider that motivation enough to write as expeditiously as possible.

  191. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:49 pm | Permalink

    KG,

    Haha, for some reason that made me laugh. Don’t read or hear “twits” much this side of the world unless one’s reading Roald Dahl.

    The fourth season promises to cover the last of my favorite material of the series. After that, that’s when the real surprises await, should we be blessed with further seasons.

  192. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    Alsoconcerning the battle with the red viper and the mountain, i hope they won’t take the same mountain as season 2, because he is tall, but thats all, he is not imposing, he do not inspire fear, and for the fight he is suppose to be in full armor, so maybe they can bring conan stevens or bring someone else even bigger than him. I would say for an ending of season 4 if it was longer a bit, with the imprisoning of cerceim would also be a shock for everyone, but one think they need to do is that we must feel the time passing, like how long cercei has been imprisoned, how long it took for tyrion to travel, like he depart with no beard and he arrive with some beard, for cercei they could show that she cannot shave either, put her a mustache, no forget it i just remember that they shave her completely, so thats good we will see her hair growing back, and for season 5 and so on they could make an effort to add episode, like 2 or 3 more, because if they decide to jampack book 4 and 5 into 1 season we will see too many caracter in too dew episode so adding episode will help dealing with that.

  193. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:02 pm | Permalink

    Alexandre Boivin,

    Yeah, a lot of people here want Conan back. Ian Whyte was dressed up as Gregor last year, but he is lithe like a basketball player. He actually played an Other in the series premiere. That part suits him better for sure.

    That said, since Gregor is in full armor during the duel, they could pull it off with Ian Whyte. Maybe.

    I’m actually curious how they’ll handle Cersei’s storyline with the Kettleblacks… Personally, Ser Robert Strong is the only reason I’m interested in her story now.

  194. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:05 pm | Permalink

    KG:
    Be grateful it’s popular enough to have been renewed through FOUR seasons, you greedy twits.

    No shit, kids today. I still vividly remember agonizing over whether or not HBO would even like the pilot episode. Yes, maybe they’ve “dumbed down” the story a little, but what the hell else does any reasonable person expect? This show is already pushing the boundaries of the level of complexity a large audience will appreciate and enjoy. Of course I’d prefer 15 seasons of absolute faithfulness, but I’m also not moronic enough to be that attached to my own preferences.

  195. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:08 pm | Permalink

    Lots of really, really good thoughts here. I basically agree with everyone else, and I think its interesting that so many of us feel like we’d be satisfied with seven seasons. To me, eight seems like the exact amount they’d need – but seven would probably work. Nine is way too much. But basically:

    Season 4 — rest of ASoS and plenty of ADwD and AFfC
    Season 5 — wrap up the ADwD/AFfC storylines
    Season 6 — WoW
    Season 7 — ADoS

    Alex Dubrovsky: It’s like you’re reading my mind.

    There is nothing in AFFC and ADWD that might justify 2 whole seasons. Everything that happens in those books (“happens” not meaning “people traveling and admiring river turtles”) can be condensed into 1.5 seasons at most, and even will probably have a lot of boring stuff.

    Sam traveling from the Wall to Oldtown – the only things that happen there is him sleeping with Gilly and Maester Aemon dying. That could be shown in 3-4 scenes.
    (You could also add in perhaps a meeting between him and Arya in Braavos. Either way, this can be spread out over several episodes, but in a few quick scenes)

    Arya – I don’t understand why she’s in the story after ASOS. The whole point of her Faceless Man training is for her to stop being Arya Stark. (She’ll be needed, I’d think, and this is one plot I can see taking up some time)


    Dany – please please please cut 99% of her post-ASOS story. Her flying on Drogon is about the only scene worth showing on TV. The ideal story for her would be her going to Westeros after Yunkai and taking the role of Aegon. Have Victarion and Tyrion meet her on the way or something … That will save everyone the pointless soul-sucking waste of time called Mereen and adding another major player so late into the game. (I think it’s just going to be sharply cut back)


    Tyrion – same, cut all the travelogue, pig riding and such.
    (Won’t happen – Tyrion kind of the bread-and-butter of this)


    Dornish story – cut Arianne’s plot to steal Myrcella entirely. (It won’t need that many scenes, but cut Areo Hotah and Aerys Oakhart, and all those random people.)


    Ironborn – show Euron becoming a king with as few scenes as possible and then show Ironborn conquering stuff in the Reach. At least it’ll get few action scenes. (Agreed — the Kingsmoot can be one long scene, cut the Damphair to a glorified cameo, and that’s about it)


    Quentyn Martell – cut him entirely. (Sure)


    Brienne – show her entire pointless and boring story in 3-4 scenes. (The only parts that matter: When she finally reaches the Brotherhood, her scenes on the Quiet Isle, and that’s about it)


    Jaime – show him only when he gets to Riverrun. (YEP)


    King’s Landing, Wall, the North stuff – that can be shown more or less as it is, with few alterations. Those were parts that were actually interesting to read (I also liked Ironborn stuff in AFFC, but I can understand why some people didn’t like it). (The Wall, Stannis and King’s Landing likely to be the mainstay plots for Season 5, along with Dany, who will probably take off on Drogon late in Season 5)

  196. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

    Greatjon of Slumber,

    Speaking of how much time is enough, I can sympathize when people feel time on the show could have been better invested elsewhere (especially after the latest Theon scene), but I don’t see the show succeeding with more than ten episodes a season. You already hear about some people complaining about a soft midseason with the current ten a year.

  197. Joh
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

    I think that Strong Belwas will be introduced in season 4 during the siege of Meereen by Daenerys.

  198. Deekan
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:14 pm | Permalink

    Ummm… ADwD is my favorite book in the series… so, umm… F*ck you all, I guess.

  199. Josh Parker
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:14 pm | Permalink

    anuhealani:
    Since there’s no way season 4 will be “the second half of A Storm of Swords,” as they keep saying, a 7-season estimate sounds pretty bang-on to me.

    S4: Remaining 1/3 of ASOS + 1/3 of AFFC + 1/3 of ADWD
    S5: Remaining 2/3 of AFFC + Remaining 2/3of ADWD
    S6: The Winds of Winter
    S7: A Dream of Spring

    Here here! This would easily work.

  200. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

    Joh,

    This show pushes plenty of envelopes, but I can’t see them filming Belwas taking a dump in the general direction of any city, even if he was included on the show. I only mention this because that scene is one of my favorites that include him.

  201. KG
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    Heh it’s a word that needs more airtime, in my opinion!

  202. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

    Deekan,

    Thanks! [shields himself with disease-resistant tarp]

    Seriously, I’m curious. What about it makes it your favorite?

  203. Devo
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

    I think there’s a better chance of the show making seven seasons than GRRM finishing seven books. It’s a shame that our best chance of getting a proper ending to the series is to remove it from GRRM’s hands, but I think that’s the reality we’re looking at.

  204. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

    KG,

    My airtime vote goes to “kerfuffle.” It changes daily, though. English is that rich.

  205. punklunchbox
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:21 pm | Permalink

    Wow, am I the only one that sees the end of this series playing out on the big screen? HBO shows have gone that way before (Sex & The City) so it’s not completely unheard of. Imagine if after 7 seasons of this show, we see the great final battle/finale in theaters? I don’t know, I personally think it could be amazing.

  206. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

    punklunchbox,

    People have actually suggested it here, but I totally forgot about those bizarre films and the unexpected precedent they set before us.

  207. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:26 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    As for cerceiI think they will start it and blend it next season, make the tommen wedding soon in the season 4, start to make her crazy soon, and at the start of season 5 get rif of her fast just see her from time to time, but as for the mountain i really don’t want to see the one from season 2, he just look like a tall tree who could fall with the wind, we need someone who is really big, slow, but can take it, and take a two-handed sword in one hand, maybe a 8 foot tall guy against a 5,5 feet tall viper, that would be amazing. Also i liked how jaime did not give a shit about the cersei letter and seem to becoming good and hope he won’t be killed, because brienne had to lie to him so he will come with her, she never lied before why now, does she reslly belive the hound is this guy with the helmet, she seemed so different from before, like she don’t trust him anymore, maybe she was killed ans brought back to life too, what do you think about that, abouot jaime and brienne, maybe they will stay together in the search for sansa and arya like he swear to do to cat.

  208. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:27 pm | Permalink

    Rhaego Worldmounter:
    Any man who says they should cut the Greyjoy uncles I’llfeed you to the sea.I liveto see Victarion & Moqorro on a ship infested w/ monkeys.

    Dorne, too, is necessary (though boring to me).

    Dany dithering in Mereen is the really egregious time waster.

    To me it’s Brienne’s journeys, which would be more interesting if they involved her becoming host of a food-and-wine travelogue show. “This week from the Saltpans, we discover the ancient Riverlands art of braising boars, and kill a couple of douchebags who insult my armor!” From her stuff I’d keep the Quiet Isle, a couple scenes of her confronting Rorge and Biter (and hell, throw in Locke, as that would work well), and when she finally finds the Brotherhood.

    The stuff with Cersei and Margaery — expanding the power struggle aspects of those characters — will, along with the Wall, Danaerys and Stannis, occupy most of the story, followed by Arya in Braavos and the Ironborn. I love the Moqorro character and hope we’ll run into him. I just think most of Dance with Dragons along with a little of Feast for Crows could fit all into Season 5, with most of Season 4 being the rest of Storm of Swords plus some of The Wall’s arc from Book 5 in this season too

    Either way overall I have a lot of confidence in these guys to keep doing the great work they’re doing with this adaptation.

  209. Deekan
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:29 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    well, of course, for starters, Reek. And I actually LOVED all of the political conflicts in Meereen. And once the Dragons were let loose sh*t got real. And I laughed hysterically at the Quentyn fail (I could tell GRRM was chuckling too when he wrote). And now that the Dorne plot was revealed (those being the only chapters, outside of Quarth, that I hated) I actually found them enjoyable. Arya and Alayne were on the back-burner but I was cool with that. Oh yeah, though no action until the end, the whole getting the wildlings across the border to be fascinating (I hope they don’t kill show Tormund !) and frickin’ Slynt gets what he deserves! Justice! Har! Har!

  210. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:35 pm | Permalink

    Alexandre Boivin,

    I agree. Really hope Conan is back for the duel. Even seeing him scream as Qyburn experiments on him would be amazing, let alone the Viper fight, which could be incredible.

    I agree about Jaime. Burning Cersei’s letter shows us how much he has grown as a person. Meeting Brienne changed him, as did losing his hand. He isn’t the same man anymore.

    I think Brienne was forced by Stoneheart to betray Jaime, but he will survive the encounter. He has to have a greater destiny than being hanged. Brienne has to lie to him, however, and bring him to Stoneheart, or else Stoneheart might kill Pod and the other knight.

    Brienne believed Rorge was the Hound. A lot of people did. Only a few people know Sandor did not commit those awful crimes. None of the main characters know Sandor Clegane is still alive.

  211. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:38 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp:
    punklunchbox,

    People have actually suggested it here, but I totally forgot about those bizarre films and the unexpected precedent they set before us.

    I don’t think we should regard the Sex & the City movies as any kind of real barometer here given their massive sucktacularness.

  212. punklunchbox
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

    Greatjon of Slumber,

    Of course not. But the point is, HBO made big screen movies from one of their shows. So in other words, the idea isn’t completely unheard of. And what can I say, I personally think it could be really cool if done right with the proper budget and special effects that a big screen blockbuster would normally be allowed. I certainly think if viewership doesn’t drop off they would make serious bank off it.

  213. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    Deekan,

    Thanks for putting that out there. I enjoyed much of what you described minus the Meereenese politics. My overall criticism of ADWD extends to AFFC. Lots of new characters so deep into the series, and they don’t have obvious purposes. That and the two book split is hard for me to justify. Perhaps the last two books will have amazing payoffs, but I can’t judge the books on that basis yet. Overall I found the first three books to be much more complete and satisfying entries into the series. I have to say, I did like Quentyn’s fate, though I found it frustrating how much attention was paid to his journey. I think that scene would make awesome television, like a lot of ADWD. I just found a lot of the book to be ponderous, stagnant. I’m not an action junkie reader, but the characters seemed stuck in place for the most part as well. Again, thank you for sharing. I find other opinions help me appreciate the show/books more. I don’t share your overall opinion of ADWD, but I can respect it.

  214. WompWomp
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:48 pm | Permalink

    Greatjon of Slumber,

    I would pay to NOT see a Sex and the City Sucktacular.

  215. Paintknight
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:52 pm | Permalink

    Donna Gagnon,

    Arya was in Feast. Just sayin’.

  216. Lex
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:52 pm | Permalink

    Seven seasons sounds right. It’s way more than I ever expected, and I highly doubt they’d go beyond that. And seven seasons sounds amazing to me; I remember the time when all we wanted was the greenlight for Season One. I remember thinking I’d even be happy just to get a pilot episode – anything beyond that is a treat. I also worried the show would get cancelled. A complete series, of seven seasons, would be amazing.

    But this definitely means the show will become its own beast, and depart wildly from the books over the next few seasons. Most of Dorne will probably be cut, as well as the Iron Islands. I expect purists will either give up on the show altogether, or their heads will explode.

    And yeah, it kinda sucks… but it’s been obvious for a while now that the show’s momentum is definitely going to overtake/pass GRRM.

  217. Darquemode
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

    Deekan,

    I hear you…
    For me ADwD is tied with ASoS, both being behind AGoT, but not by much.

    The Meereen plot with Dany was the first time I enjoyed her character honestly. Attempting to learn how to rule, the political intrigue, The Sons of the Harpy, Quentyn’s visit… All great stuff IMO.

    I thought all the political intrigue in Meereen mirrored Jon’s arc nicely too. Both surrounded by enemies and threats. Both learning how to rule and what that actually means.

    I found the Cersei chapters disturbing, but very good and of course I loved the Varys twist at the end…

    Then I absolutely LOVED the Dornish chapters as well.

  218. Jim
    Posted May 16, 2013 at 11:58 pm | Permalink

    The Queen’s Hand,

    The Queen’s Hand: Seriously?You think they should show Quentyn leaving then have him magically arrive across the world 10 minutes later?Come on dude, the story is already… adapted… to low IQs enough.

    No. Show him leaving, then 4-6 episodes later have him arrive.

    His story comes to nothing in the end, anyway. Why keep him at all? Just have Doran send a letter or something.

  219. WompWomp
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:02 am | Permalink

    Darquemode,

    Varys was my favorite part by far. So perfect. It’s fascinating seeing non-readers wondering what the true nature of his game is. They know there is more.

  220. Jim
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:05 am | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ:
    Eric Niewohner

    1.GRRM finishes the last two books in time for final season of TV show (however many seasons that takes I haven’t a clue)
    2.D&D stretch out the story including, what many feel, are the pretty awful story lines that need to be cut
    3.They skip a year to give GRRM more time

    Could be worse. We could have gotten Legend of the Seeker. I can’t STAND Goodkind, but even i felt sorry for his fans after that steaming pile.

  221. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:08 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    maybe stoneheart want jaime to tell his version of the story to see if brienne told the truth, but i hope she won’t learn about him throwing bran off the windows, because that would be the end of him

    what word could brienne have muttered when she was hang

    I also liked the sansa story part, but not with the young robert he is so irritating, the samwel part is also intriging, the bran and arya very much too, more bran, what will become of him, he seem to be able to communicate with the poeple from the past in his dream, like they could hear him, the sound of the wind, strange, arya at some point will surely want his revenge

    What trouble me more is that everybody are fighting for the iron throne, and nobody except the wall thought about the others or the whitewalkers, so i just hope that when the WW comme to the south or something like that, that all the 7 kingdom will like magicly forget that they fought for so long each other and now they will just be frien, i hope that won’t happen, that would be shit, because if there were no WW in the story it would have been just fine too

  222. Darquemode
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:21 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    Varys may be my favorite character in the series honestly.
    My favorite rotates depending on my mood honestly. XD

    I always felt he was the anti-Littlefinger. LF is after more personal gains and revenge, but Varys has plans within plans backed up by alternative plans. I may not buy his “for the Seven Kingdoms and peace” motives completely, but he is far less chaotic than LF and does actually seem to want peace and order….in the end

    Even though it will never happen and is not exactly GRRM’s style, I want Varys to have a Bond villain moment and spill the details of his may plans in detail from the beginning! XD
    It would be fascinating to see how the pieces fit together after the fact!

    The other character I find fascinating from ADWD is possibly the most disliked character in the series as far as I can tell, Darkstar. So many theories about him running the gamut from he is a red herring to Darkstar being the reason GRRM wrote about Dorne in the first place!

  223. Steven Swanson
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:21 am | Permalink

    Jim:
    The Queen’s Hand,

    No.Show him leaving, then 4-6 episodes later have him arrive.

    His story comes to nothing in the end, anyway.Why keep him at all?Just have Doran send a letter or something.

    His personal story coming to nothing is kind of the point, although I agree that it’s not essential for the series. What is essential, if they’re even following the books that closely by then, is his releasing the dragons.

  224. Selmy
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:24 am | Permalink

    Men some people really think they will never see the ending of the books. Give the man some slack. He has wrote one of the best, intricate, complex, believable, amazing story I have ever read. Writing a book as complicated as ASOIAF, I understand it may take a few years. Just be patient, reread the books like everybody else and enjoy the show. You can start panicking if there is a fire at his house, or something.

  225. Darquemode
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:25 am | Permalink

    Alexandre Boivin,

    I thought Brienne said “Sword!”
    Wasn’t that confirmed by GRRM somewhere… one of his interviews.

  226. Ser Tahu
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:27 am | Permalink

    I just don’t get many of the complaints with ADwD, it is my second favourite book of the series. I think a lot of it is because people don’t understand political intrigue and character development (which ADwD had a lot of), and only pay attention to massive action scenes. If you believe that ADwD (and AFfC) could only make one season of television, then you obviously didn’t read or understand it properly. As for Dorne and the Iron Islands, they were the most interesting parts of AFfC.

    Also, to the people saying that too much attention was given to Quentyn, he had FOUR chapters in the entire book, and only appeared in THREE others. that is not too much attention.

    As far as adaption is concerned, in addition to all of the stuff that was actually in AFfC+ADwD, there were many storylines that were not shown that easily could (and in my opinion should) be shown in the tv series, not in every episode, but maybe in 2-4 episodes in their respective seasons. Osha and Rickon (maybe just in season 4 and 5), Stannis between the Wall and Deepwood Motte (season 6), Kevan ruling in Kings Landing (season 7), Quentyn’s journey to Volantis (season 5), Aegon post Tyrion (season 6 and part of 7), the wildlings in Hardhome (season 6 and a bit of 7), the Ironborn conquest of the reach (season 6 and a bit of 7), the growing tensions in the Vale (spread throughout seasons 5-7) and Loras taking Dragonstone (season 6). Also, I believe that chronologically the first few Daenerys chapters in TWoW take place at the same time as Barristan’s ADwD chapters, so there is that too. They will also likely want to invent something for Varys and Bronn to do so that the actors are actually doing something.

    Assuming that the ratings hold up (which they will. even with a drop in viewership GoT will likely still be the highest viewed and grossing show on HBO), here is how I think they should do it:
    season 4: ASoS part two (to those saying there is only 1/3 of it left, it is more like 2/5, and with all of the Kings Landing stuff that was skipped that brings it to about 1/2 of ASoS. The Kingsmoot also could be moved to this season)
    season 5: first 1/2 of AFfC, first 1/3 of ADwD (people also have a habit of forgetting that although AFfC and ADwD start at the same time, AFfC ends around 1/2-2/3 of the way through ADwD. Also, I believe that the Night’s Watch election will be moved to the start of this season)
    season 6: second half of AFfC, second 1/3 of ADwD
    season 7: end of ADwD, TWoW part 1
    THEN (depending on the content of TWoW and ADoS)
    season 8: TWoW part 2 (and possibly ADoS part 1)
    season 9: finale
    OR
    season 8: TWoW part 2
    season 9: (possibly TWoW end) + ADoS part 1
    season 10: finale. (I personally like this one)

    depending on how they handle TWoW and ADoS, it is also possible, but not very likely, for there to be season 11 (keep in mind that the start of TWoW was supposed to be the end of ADwD, and TWoW and ADoS are likely going to be the longest and most eventful books in the series)

  227. WompWomp
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:27 am | Permalink

    Alexandre Boivin,

    Didn’t Jaime admit to pushing Bran in Riverrun while he was a prisoner? I think Stoneheart just wants to kill him after Roose Bolton said “Jaime Lannister sends his regards” before killing Robb.

    No idea what the word was, but we’ll probably find out in TWOW.

    Not sure if the books mention it so clearly, but in the show Osha tells Bran that the Old Gods speak through the wind blowing through the leaves of the weirwood tree. Bran experiences this when he calls out to Ned through the heart tree in Winterfell.

    Yeah, that’s a huge problem in Westeros.
    Most people have forgotten about the White Walkers. They believe they are stories. Le Garde de Nuit has become a joke, an army of beggars. It will take the coming of Azor Ahai ans dragons to defeat the White Walkers. À la fin, le trone de fer? Le poivoir? Ce n’est rien, non? La vie, l’existence… C’est tout.

  228. Jentario
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:29 am | Permalink

    Javi Marcos:
    The key is Season 5

    Will it cover
    1)AFFC+ADWD, ending in the same spots

    2) Only 2/3 of AFFC/ADWD (complicated to get cliffhangers there), people could get tired of seeing Dany still in Mereen


    ,and in Season 6 we will have the remaining of AFFC+ADWD + beginning of TWOW, included The Full Battles of Ice and Fire, and his aftermath, maybe one great chapter for each one à la Blackwater.

    That was what I was hoping for. Especially since at least the battle of Mereen was supposed to be in book 5 so there would definitely still be enough content left for a 7th season made out of just TWOW.

  229. WompWomp
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:31 am | Permalink

    Darquemode,

    Yeah, hard to pick favorites. So many different reasons to root for so many of them. I’ve noticed non-readers note this as well, particularly regarding Blackwater, where people caught themselves caring for people on both sides of the battle. Very GRRM, right? [laughs]

    He certainly made an impression, dat Darkstar. I’ll have to look up those theories!

  230. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:34 am | Permalink

    Darquemode,

    If she sais that, what’s the meaning.

  231. LordNoga1981
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    I can definately see the 4 and 5th books being one season. With parts from those thrown into seasons 4 and 5. Spoilers ahead

    As for cutting the fat, a lot of Greyjoy shit can be cut. Kingsmoot, attack on Shield Islands and a lil bit of Victarions voyage and its ending in Mereen. Quentyn Martell will still be around but will be changed a lot and quickened quite a bit. Just like Tyrions long journey to Mereen, hell all that traveling for three viewpoint characters and the many go nowhere chapters for Dany and you cut out half the book. Oh and Brienne’s journey too. Arya’s house of black and white will be significantly but less detailed. Yeah i can see it being cut down and making one season with a lil overflow from seasons before and after.
    But like someone said, who knows where Winds of winter and A Dream of Spring will take us. Also this isnt a guaranteed number at all, its just probably a goal, and once they get that far they will have to finish it if it takes 10 seasons. Oh and 7 is a magical number.

  232. Darquemode
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:39 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    I agree with pretty much everything up until you have the series going for 10+ years! XD
    I think 9 is the maximum I guess… Unless TWoW and ADoS both are ASOS-type books that need more than 10 episodes. Even then, 9 seems ideal to me at this point.

    Agreed on Quentyn too.
    Besides Quentyn is important to the narrative. He is needed to (falsely) show people that the dragons “cannot be controlled by anyone but Dany” so then once others are not attacked by the dragons and/or take control of them it is more dramatic!

  233. Ser Tahu
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:47 am | Permalink

    Darquemode,

    I agree that 11 is too much. It is a possibility though, so I thought I would list it anyway. For me, it is a toss up between 9 and 10 seasons, depending on the last two books. I am expecting them to be the longest books in the series, and as eventful as ASoS, so I personally lean towards 10. I would be perfectly happy with 9 seasons though.

  234. Darquemode
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:47 am | Permalink

    Alexandre Boivin,

    Bienne was given the choice of the sword or the noose and ordered to chose. Use her sword to kill Jaime or hang for betraying her oath, so when she yells “Sword” she is choosing the former.

  235. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:57 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    Yeah now i remember, he admit it, he did it for love

    He will have a hard time what he said to stoneheart, because he did not knew whats was suppose to happen, i really hope he don’t die, because he is one of the few caracter that really evolve since the start

    jondo you think jon is death, me no, so how it will turn out, and who will be azor azai reborn

    i cant wait to know the origin of the WW, the one true god, who is right and wrong, also i also think he is the son of lyanna like many other poeple, so that will make him the true ruler of winterfell and maybe the seven kingdom, who was born first jon or aegon from ADWD

    danyso i guess she will be captured by kahl jogho, what will happen, maybe drogon will just burn them all and that she will claim all the dotrakhi for herself, what could possibly happen to tyrion what role does he have to play again, i don’t remember

  236. Darquemode
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 1:00 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    My fist suspicion about Darkstar is that he is the bastard of Aerys through the rape of Asharra Dayne. Thus he has claim to the Iron Throne. It fits with the “dishonoring” of Ashrra that Selmy mentions and explains why he will not be given Dawn. Asharra did not want her rapist’s bastard to have the symbol of her house, her brother’ sword.

    Part of me dismisses most of that theory, but it does tie in many loose treads and explains why Doran considers him “the most dangerous man in Dorne” Of course a number of other thins can explain that too I’m sure!

    That is what makes theorizing about GRRM’s work so fun. He gives just enough information and misinformation so that anything and its opposite is possible! XD

  237. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 1:13 am | Permalink

    Darquemode,

    I thought Gerold was Arthur’s cousin? I don’t know. There are so many theories about characters and their parentage. GRRM would never be able to tie all of these questions together if they were true. I’m only willing to speculate on Jon(Rhaegar and Lyanna),’Aegon’(Illyrio and his Blackfyre second wife), and the Lannister siblings(Aerys is at least the father of the twins or Tyrion).

  238. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 1:20 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    you think that tywin is not their father.?

  239. Ser Tahu
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 1:21 am | Permalink

    Darquemode,

    Darkstar is too old for that theory to be true. He is just the heir of the cadet branch of house Dayne

  240. Delta1212
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 1:28 am | Permalink

    Alexandre Boivin,

    It’s a popular theory that one or the other of Jaime/Cersei and Tyrion are Aerys’s bastards because apparently Aerys had a thing for Tywin’s wife or something. In the case of the twins, I believe that it’s an attempt to justify/explain/whatever the incest. In the case of Tyrion, it’s people who want the “three heads of the dragon” aka the three dragon riders to be Dany, Jon and Tyrion, and since Dany is a Targaryen and Jon is secretly Rhaegar’s son, Tyrion must secretly be a Targaryen as well. So goes the theory.

    Edit: As regards Jon’s death, it’s very unlikely that he’s dead. At least not permanently. If I had to put money on how he isn’t dead, I’d say he warged into Ghost (or someone/something else), which would explain why the prologue was basically an entire explanation for how wargs can transfer their consciousness elsewhere when their human body dies.

  241. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 1:34 am | Permalink

    Delta1212,

    yeah but what about aegon

  242. Darquemode
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 1:38 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Bastardy is such a large part of past rebellions I have no problem with it playing into the endgame of ASoIaF honestly. When the last two kings are both notorious for bedding women outside their marriage (by charm or by harm) it is likely there would be little bastards all over.

    I know many have issues with all of those theories though. Well outside of Jon and the Lanniter siblings like you said.

    Ser Tahu,

    I’ve never been sure of his age honestly. I seem to recall someone on this site mentioned that GRRM was asked DS’s age at some Q&A and responded he thought DS was in his early 20′s (I guess he forgot exactly what age he needed to be). XD

    Even if he is within the age range, there are so may other reasons to doubt that theory….. or most theories people come up with honestly. Personally I have a hard time putting faith in or completely discounting most theories.

  243. Delta1212
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 1:40 am | Permalink

    Alexandre Boivin,

    The popular theory, which I’m not yet completely sold on, is that Aegon is a fake set up by Varys and Illyrio. Possibly a real Targaryen descendant as there are a few known bastards around, and probably raised to believe he’s Aegon, but not actually Rhaegar’s real son.

  244. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 1:42 am | Permalink

    Alexandre Boivin,

    I don’t believe he is the real Aegon. I think he is the “Mummer’s Dragon” from the vision Daenerys sees in the House of the Undying. In my opinion he is the son of Illyrio and Illrio’s second wife, who he describes as having silver hair. It is also my belief that she was a Blackfyre descendant. Which ties into why the Golden Company broke their contract with Myr when they had never broken a contract before. The Golden Company was founded by a Blackfyre. When Tyrion asks how he got the Golden Company to break their contract with Myr, Illyrio responds “Some contracts are writ in ink, others in blood. I will say no more.” They likely broke their contract to help place a Blackfyre(“Aegon”) on the iron throne.

  245. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 1:50 am | Permalink

    so what are your theorie about the role of bran in all of that

  246. AddyStark
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 1:54 am | Permalink

    Alex Dubrovsky,

    Arya wants to BELONG more than she wants to a faceless assassin, although training to be an assassin ties in to her other goal: exacting revenge on her hit list. She has had plenty of opportunity to leave but has no where to go. Imagine that she is given an assignment in Westeros, hooks back up with Nymeria and now has her own pack. We know she is exploring her warg abilities, wolf dreams, seeing through the cat while blind, etc. If she gets back to Nymeria and decides to “go rogue,” I suspect even the faceless men could have difficulty reining in a warging, trained assassin as resourceful as we know Arya to be!!

  247. Lou Reed
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 2:16 am | Permalink

    My guess is, that they plan to push some story forward from book 4 and 5, into season 4, and perhaps finish books 4 and 5 in season 5. Especially if they consider adding more episodes per season, as many fans are demanding.

    Such as :
    - Ramsay /Theon
    - Arya
    - Sansa / Littlefinger
    - The Greyjoys

    Slow storytelling will kill the show, and and there are some real dangers of that, if they try to stretch book 4/5 into more seasons.

  248. Harrymarco
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 2:21 am | Permalink

    Seven or (preferably) eight seasons. Don’t care as long as they don’t cut out DORNE!

  249. Lou Reed
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 2:23 am | Permalink

    Alexandre Boivin,

    One theory is that Tywin is only father to Jamie and Cersei. Tyrion was fathered by the Mad King, who raped Tywins wife. Which explains his hatred for the Mad King, and hence the sack of Kings Landing. After reading through the books a second time, a found a few hints, that this could really be the case. Tyrion has always had a fascination of the dragon skulls, and often have dreams involving dragons.

    Plus, as we all know, the dragon must have three heads! We need three dragon riders. I think GRRM wants us to speculate which three those will be.

  250. Lou Reed
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 2:23 am | Permalink

    Harrymarco:
    Seven or (preferably) eight seasons. Don’t care as long as they don’t cut out DORNE!

    I have nightmares that they cut out Dorne. :(

  251. Ser Tahu
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 2:26 am | Permalink

    Lou Reed:
    My guess is, that they plan to push some story forward from book 4 and 5, into season 4, and perhaps finish books 4 and 5 in season 5.Especially if they consider adding more episodes per season, as many fans are demanding.

    Why can’t people just accept the fact that THERE WILL NEVER BE MORE THAN 10 EPISODES A SEASON. Benioff and Weiss have stated quite clearly that they can barely finish 10 in a year.

  252. dragonreborn
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 2:39 am | Permalink

    seven hells! I’ll be thirty when the seventh season comes

  253. Alexandre Boivin
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 2:50 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    I’m sure if they had a bigger budget they could at least make 12 episode, they must at least have 2 different crew filming all the time, like one in westeros and the other at morocco or in the iceland, we are not asking for 20, but for 12, and maybe the final season they can get a longer one because it will be the last.

  254. zambi76
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 3:11 am | Permalink

    I’ll take this as 7 seasons before we’ll have to decide to overpass GRRM. I think D&D spoke of eight or nine season for the whole story in an interview lately.

  255. Baihu1983
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 3:20 am | Permalink

    I dare say he is being modest.

    I can see books 4 and 5 being combined into at least 2 seasons alone and WoW another 2 maybe? and then 1 or 2 for the last.

  256. Martinfan12
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 4:07 am | Permalink

    He is an idiot!

    This show needs:
    2 seasons book 4
    2 seasons book 5
    2 seasons book 6
    2/3 seasons last book

    which would make a total of at LEAST 13 seasons necessary… 14 to be safe.

  257. Frederick Palowaski
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 4:12 am | Permalink

    Most of books 4 and 5 are the result of GRRM writing himself into a corner. Even he would make a bunch of cuts if he could turn back the clock. That’s why he’s always sure to make it clear that getting rid of the five-year-gap and splitting AFFC and ADwD into 2 was partly Daniel Abraham’s idea. Because he regrets it. So, the show can do whatever it wants after Storm of Swords is over. The rest kind of sucks anyway.

  258. Suzaku
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 4:17 am | Permalink

    The Young Wolf:
    In 6 years:

    Isaac will be 20
    Maise will be 22
    Sophie will be 23

    so on and so forth. I see this being a problem…

    It would only be a problem if their ages had any relevance to the story whatsoever.

    That’s absolutely not the case.

    Martin originally wrote the books with the intent of having a five year timeskip in between A Storm of Swords and The Winds of Winter, but now he just seems to ignore their ages completely. In the latest book, Sansa is still only 13, and Dany and Jon are only about 15. Yet he writes them as if they were at least in their late teens or early twenties.

    Given some of his comments in interviews about Dany, I think he certainly invisions them as being older than the ages he originally set for them when he published the first book nearly two decades ago.

    Also, if we’re being honest, I think the children aging more dramatically over the course of the series will probably work in the show’s favor, considering where some of the storylines go.

  259. Baihu1983
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 4:30 am | Permalink

    Martinfan12:
    He is an idiot!

    This show needs:
    2 seasons book 4
    2 seasons book 5
    2 seasons book 6
    2/3 seasons last book

    which would make a total of at LEAST 13 seasons necessary… 14 to be safe.

    Well lets remember they wont just adapt Feast and then Dance they will combine them but they could easily get 2[maybe 3] seasons out of that.

    And isn’t Winds of Winter planned for next year?

  260. hargrind
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 5:10 am | Permalink

    Martinfan12,

    Well, thank god you aren’t a writer on the show.

  261. JoopStroop
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 5:13 am | Permalink

    I wouldn’t mind just seven seasons. In book 4 and 5, although much happened, it was mosty setting up stuff for later and not really that much exciting stuff compared to book 3.

  262. Baihu1983
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 5:18 am | Permalink

    Joh:
    I think that Strong Belwas will be introduced in season 4 during the siege of Meereen by Daenerys.

    100% cut. George has already confirmed.

  263. Martinfan12
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 5:30 am | Permalink

    hargrind:
    Martinfan12,

    Well, thank god you aren’t a writer on the show.

    JoopStroop:
    I wouldn’t mind just seven seasons. In book 4 and 5, although much happened, it was mosty setting up stuff for later and not really that much exciting stuff compared to book 3.

    No, pay attention to what I wrote. What is needed is:

    2 seasons book 4
    2 seasons book 5
    2 seasons book 6
    2/3 seasons last book

    And if grrm decides to write an eighth book, seasons 15 and 16 will be necessary too. grrm said he wasn’t entirely sure.

  264. Ser Tahu
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 5:59 am | Permalink

    Frederick Palowaski:
    Most of books 4 and 5 are the result of GRRM writing himself into a corner. Even he would make a bunch of cuts if he could turn back the clock. That’s why he’s always sure to make it clear that getting rid of the five-year-gap and splitting AFFC and ADwD into 2 was partly Daniel Abraham’s idea. Because he regrets it. So, the show can do whatever it wants after Storm of Swords is over. The rest kind of sucks anyway.

    Actually, he has made it quite clear that he regrets having wasted his time on attempting a 5 year skip, and that it would never have worked. As for the character split, the publishers couldn’t publish a such a large book, and he had to split it in some manner, so although he didn’t want to do that, he didn’t really have much of a choice.

    Ser Tahu,
    No. Just no.

  265. Adam Whitehead
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 6:03 am | Permalink

    2 seasons book 42 seasons book 52 seasons book 62/3 seasons last book

    And if grrm decides to write an eighth book, seasons 15 and 16 will be necessary too. grrm said he wasn’t entirely sure.

    No television series is going to last for 16 years, unless it’s a soap opera or DOCTOR WHO. That’s is way past the realm of what is realistically plausible. Even 9 seasons is really pushing it.

    What is almost certainly going to happen after Season 4 (if not after Season 3) is that D&D, likely in consultation with GRRM, are going to sit down and look at the material needed to get from the end of ASoS to the end of ADoS, using GRRM’s plans for the last two books and (hopefully, by that point), what exists of the manuscript for THE WINDS OF WINTER. In fact, they may already have done so (they spent some time, along with Cogman, at GRRM’s place at the start of the year).

    What’ll happen at that point is that they are going to map out the rest of the series. If this requires major deviations from the plot as laid down in AFFC and ADWD, then so be it. Benioff has already said he envisages the cast reaching its maximum size in Season 3 and getting smaller again afterwards, which suggests to me that rather than getting a dozen new characters in Dorne and the Iron Islands (including Arianne, Quentyn, Trystane, the Sand Snakes, Darkstar, Areo Hotah, Victarion, Aeron, Euron, the Reader, the various ironborn captains etc) we’re going to get a the bare minimum necessary to tell the story and no more, with more focus on the existing characters.

    The emphasis will be on making sure the story keeps moving compellingly and without as many longeurs as the book: Dany may spend a whole season, or even two (though I think even that is dodgy), in Meereen, but she’s not going to spend 3-4 seasons there, as a faithful adaptation of the books would require. TV pacing doesn’t work that way. The general events of the storyline will stay the same, but the details (which D&D have been increasingly playing hard and loose with) will no doubt change even more. I think we’re going to see more of the kind of changes they’ve done with Gendry (combining his character with Edric Storm) and Osha (apparently putting her – and presumably Rickon – in Castle Black to keep them on the chessboard and the actors on-screen), as well as potentially wider-ranging ones which will see entire storylines simply not pursued, dramatically condensed or occurring off-screen.

    And isn’t Winds of Winter planned for next year?

    GRRM said over a year ago he thought it was not impossible for TWoW to come out in 2014. However, he’s also consistently said since then that he’s got a lot of other projects on his plate and he’s behind schedule. To me, I would be pleasantly surprised to see TWoW much before late 2015.

  266. Adam Whitehead
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 6:06 am | Permalink

    Most of books 4 and 5 are the result of GRRM writing himself into a corner. Even he would make a bunch of cuts if he could turn back the clock. That’s why he’s always sure to make it clear that getting rid of the five-year-gap and splitting AFFC and ADwD into 2 was partly Daniel Abraham’s idea.

    Agreed that GRRM would probably have handled them differently if he’d had the benefit of hindsight. However, he’s also made it clear that he decided to get rid of the gap, and he went with Daniel Abraham’s suggestion of a character split because it was the best choice available, not because it was a fantastic decision in and of itself.

    Also, I don’t remember the last time GRRM specifically said it was Abraham’s idea. He mentioned it a few times back in 2005 when the split happened, but since then he’s usually just said it was his idea, or an idea he came up with whilst talking with friends.

  267. Jentario
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 6:19 am | Permalink

    Ned:
    It won’t be 7 seasons, unless they make the seasons longer.It won’t be 10 seasons.It will be 8 or 9, likely 8 … David & Dan have publicly stated 8.

    D&D have stated that they want GOT to be an 80 hour experience that people will watch straight with the DVDs. 80 hours = 8 seasons. I think the guy is just playing it safe saying 7 seasons.

    GOT will likely peak at season 4, then start falling at season 5 (many characters and little progress) but I bet it will stabilize at season 6 with 4-5 million. I assume they’ll take a chunk (around a quarter) of TWOW for season 6 to round out some character arcs and story lines which would make it a much better season than 5 (battles, story progress and a good ending for some characters).

    It really is up to HBO and how much they are willing to keep the show and the budget rising even when the viewer count isn’t. But if any channel is willing to keep releasing good TV without major profit (excluding the DVDs) I think it’s HBO. I mean, look at True Blood.

  268. Jentario
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 6:28 am | Permalink

    Martinfan12:
    No, pay attention to what I wrote. What is needed is:

    2 seasons book 42 seasons book 52 seasons book 62/3 seasons last book

    And if grrm decides to write an eighth book, seasons 15 and 16 will be necessary too. grrm said he wasn’t entirely sure.

    That’s cute.

  269. Andrea
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 6:33 am | Permalink

    7 seasons is more than expected to me. So it’s great news.

  270. Gaius Baltar
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 6:46 am | Permalink

    How they will adapt book 4 and 5 will be crucial for series. They have 2 choices:

    1. Stay faithfull to books, create 2 seasons from it, story remain complex and will have time to breath. Downside of it some major characters will have very slow repetetive archs (Dany in Mereen and Arya in Braavos for 3 seasons, i dont want imagine Theon story…)

    2. They could condense books to roughly one season, it will work very good for major original characters archs, but there will not be proper handling of other story archs/characters and damage for overall story could be huge, it could lose whole internal logic. Story is so good because there are many years of work behind it, if tv writers go too much of the course of books they could seriously mess it up.

    So i would prefer 8 seasons, even though there is risk of negative reaction of spoiled veiwers to slow intricating storytelling involving new characters, where not much happen to old favorite characters. But i think that danger could be avoided if new characters will be interesting. Martells for example could serve as new family to root for(since Starks are either dead or so distant, they can never comunicate with each other), it worked that way for me in books, but it need proper set up and time to develop that characters instead of wild cuts.

  271. ElioGarcia
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    Baihu1983,

    I would rather spend a year with Ramsay in the dreadfort than watch three fucking seasons of Dany in fucking Mereen. The show would be cancelled.

  272. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    The Queen’s Hand,

    Clearly I meant:

    1) Show him leaving (presumably with a prior scene of Doran explaining his mission)
    2) Wait around 4 episodes or so
    3) Show him arriving

    Then he can get onto doing the bits that actually matter.

  273. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    ElioGarcia,

    Lol. Is that the real Elio? GRRM’s pal?

    But yeah, Meereen made a point – Dany is a young girl who has much to learn about ruling and politics. But seriously George – get on with it. Watching characters devolve is rarely fun – especially when there’s still so much that needs to happen in the series. (and may never be completed on paper)

  274. Ser Tahu
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 7:22 am | Permalink

    ElioGarcia,

    For some reason I doubt that this is the real Elio…

    anyway, people vastly exaggerate how bad Meereen was (In fact it wasn’t really bad at all). assuming that they spend 2.5 seasons in AFfC/ADwD:
    season 5 will be the shadow war and Daenerys trying to stabilise her situation
    season 6 will be Daenerys trying to make alliances as the armies of Yunkai close in and her friends betray her
    sseason 7 will be the fighting pits, and then Daenerys wandering the Dothraki sea, while Barristan usurps Hizdahr and Quentyn unleashes the dragons, ending with the battle of Meereen and her return (presumably near the end or just after the battle)

    and just for the record, the ADwD Meereen stuff was far more interesting than the AFfC Kings Landing Stuff (and most of AFfC, for that matter)

  275. Petearys
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Hopefully this alludes to “at minimum” – as many stated above, it would be incredibly disjointed television, don’t see how the whole story coil be covered, esp. considering the hints GRRM has given that TWoW will be Dance length.

    If seven seasons is the goal tho, lots will be cut, and we’ll take to the Internet to voice our displeasure of wanting more, even tho the plot could exist without – like when the Internet found out Peter Jackson cut Bombadil and the othe Dunedain from LoTR

  276. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    Michael,

    The first 3 books are the best fantasy I’ve ever read. I’ve read the first 4 books three times, after reading them first in 2006 or 2007, and only about a month ago I’ve read something that came very close to the first three books of ASOIAF in terms of quality writing and my love for the characters and their arcs – Bernard Cornwell’s Warlord Chronicles (yes, it’s not fantasy, but it uses all sorts of probably fictional characters from Arthurian legends and some parts of the books border on fantasy). AFFC was always a tougher read because nothing much happens there and ADWD mixes some good stuff (everything in Westeros, basically) with some of the worst crap I have ever had the misfortune to read (basically everything in Essos). And ADWD is an unfinished book that needed much tougher editing.

    So, can I express my thoughts about ASOAIF and the TV series now that you know I actually like the story?

    AddyStark,

    What you are describing is making her deus ex machina in order to eliminate certain characters. This is not a very good writing, IMO, I don’t like when it happens in the books/movies/TV series I like. Also, how long is FM training that will make her a kick-ass uber assassin? I don’t think it’s a couple of months, it’s probably a much longer process which will last until long after the main story ends (it’s my speculation only, based on what I know about training professional special forces soldiers, for example).

  277. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    The problem is people are invested in Westeros not Meereen. There are huge amount of unresolved plot points over in Westeros – and the time Dany spends in Meereen isn’t really helping in resolving those plot points.

    ASOIAF is a mammoth task. Keeping track of the various plotlines and resolving them effectively is extremely difficult. What GRRM should have been doing is simplifying things and getting some forward momentum. Instead, he’s just made them more complex and wallowing in pretty much the same position he was when things started.

    Compare the state of affairs at the end of ASOS and at the end of ADWD. Of that, the only real major developments are:

    1) (Likely fake) Aegon is about to pose a serious threat in Westeros
    2) Dany rides Drogon with a big battle at Meereen about to happen
    3) Jon Snow is about to be reborn, probably as AA
    4) Euron’s in charge of the Iron Islands and Victarion is about to collect Dany
    5) Cersei is crazy, destroying Lannister strength and about to face trial.
    6) Stannis is about to fight the Boltons at Winterfell
    7) Dorne is about to get seriously involved in Westerosi politics (and presumably make some moves that actually work)
    8) Tyrion joins Second Sons and is (presumably) about to meet Dany

    Every damn thing has ‘about to’ in it – not a single story arc was concluded.. Ultimately, there are only so many cliff hangers an audience can take.

  278. Ser Tahu
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    Family, Duty, Hodor,

    that’s why in all of my possible season outlines the end of ADwD was always paired with the start of TWoW (which will resolve most-all of those within the first 1/4 of the book). My point is that although not much changes when you put it like that, there is still a lot of stuff that happens, especially with character development. And reasonable conclusions to major character arcs can be made throughout points within those books, so splitting those books across 2-2.5 seasons would work just as well as splitting ASoS over 2 seasons.

  279. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    There is some strong character development and as a book reader I found the books to be ok, perhaps even fairly interesting.

    But character development on tv doesn’t work like it does in the books. Travelogues in particular face negative audience reaction (see Bran’s story this season). And I just can’t imagine a large audience tuning in to watch Dany in Meereen for multiple seasons either. If people who absolutely love ASOIAF find it, on average, rather boring, people watching it on tv will leave the show in droves.

    Splitting AFFC+ADWD over 2-2.5 seasons could be done – there is enough material. But the material they would be putting in would be much more scattered and much much less exciting than ASOS. If, however, it was condensed into 1-1.5 seasons I think it would maintain the audience’s interest. And if we’re looking at key plot points, it certainly can be done.

  280. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    Major developments in ASOS:

    Dany acquires an army, takes Astapor, Yunkai and Meereen.
    Tyrion marries Sansa, gets accused of Joffrey’s death. Escapes prison and kills Shae and Tywin.
    Jon Snow meets Mance, acts as a double agent but falls in love with Ygritte, defects and fights at the Wall, kills Ygritte, is saved by Stannis after major battle
    Robb Stark and a huge group of Northern Bannerman are betrayed by Walder Frey and Roose Bolton, entirely wiping out the Northern resistance. Boltons take control. Cat dies but comes back as Lady Stoneheart.
    Jaime loses his hand and starts to become a better person. Helps free Tyrion.
    Sansa leaves with Littlefinger for th Eyrie. Littlefinger murders Lysa Arryn assuming control of the Vale.
    Oberyn introduces Dorne, fights Gregor but dies. Gregor dies of poisoning.

    So you get the idea about the difference between the ASOS and AFFC+ADWD.

  281. Hornhillbilly
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    Great news. AFFC and DWD for season 5. Maybe even a 12 episode season. Agree with a lot of what’s said above. There’s not enough of interest in those two books for two seasons, especially as they are concurrent. Will put more pressure on GRRM to up the pace a bit or else get Benioff , Weiss and Cogman to help him finish the books.

  282. Rick
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    In a German TV magazine interview, George R.R. Martin and David Benioff recently said that they would try to keep the show entertaining “from the 1st to the 80th hour”, which would suggest that they’re actually planning to do 8 seasons, each consisting of 10 roughly 1-hour episodes.

  283. Tyrion4Lyfe
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    Donna Gagnon:
    I actually hated book 4 as it was full of unnecessary additional characters…

    Or was it? Do you have information privy to the storyline which indicates this to be true? Didn’t think so. George is an atypical fantasy writer. I am sure some of the characters in AFFC are both relevant at that time and in the future.

  284. WompWomp
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    Family, Duty, Hodor,

    You nailed it. This is why I found myself deeply disappointed in ADWD. It was so dreadfully uneventful that I felt it contained all the kinds of chapters GRRM wouldn’t have bothered to write into the first three books. This, and the new “voices” of the fresh POVs rang hollow, even forced. You can only have so many viewpoints in the mix before readers begin to wonder which ones are worth caring about. And when the ones you’re accustomed to caring about tread water for hundreds of pages? Color me furious. I don’t even keep ADWD on a shelf like the others.

  285. WompWomp
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Tyrion4Lyfe,

    At least AFFC contained some intriguing new faces, even if it skipped my favorite characters. I’m desperate to learn more about Marwyn’s endeavors in Essos.

  286. WompWomp
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    Family, Duty, Hodor,

    Jon wonders if he could have been the one who killed Ygritte, but it’s not confirmed. The Battle at the Wall is distinct from the Battle at Castle Black.

    Otherwise, hearty agreement. And much of these points are EVENTS, not wanderings and setups. Man, the stifled disappointment over ADWD is hitting me hard again today… [laughs]

  287. Shitmouth
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    In the latest book, Sansa is still only 13, and Dany and Jon are only about 15. Yet he writes them as if they were at least in their late teens or early twenties.

    Well, Jon is in his late teens. He’s 18, or close to 18, by the end of book 5. Dany is close to, or actually, 17. And Sansa should be at least 14 by the end of Dance–and Arya 12.

    You’re right though; Jon and Dany definitely sound older.

  288. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    Yeah, sorry, should have said ‘Ygritte dies’. The arrow wasn’t Jon’s (which I liked as I thought it would have been cliched if it was Jon’s)

    But yeah, agreed, they were real events in ASOS. Not a series of “about to’s”.

    If Martin had just concluded a few of his arcs – the ones that are now in tWoW, maybe we would overlook some of his failings in the preceding pages. But he left his audience absolutely nothing to be satisfied with.

  289. WompWomp
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    They were both dull storylines barring some of Meereen’s conclusion in ADWD (if you can call it a conclusion), and they’d suffer even more onscreen than they ever did on the page. Two seasons for these books would lower the show’s pedigree by two orders. Imagine two seasons’ worth of S2 Dany. That’s how audiences will feel about a straight adaptation of the existing material in the timeframe suggested. Six more episodes of Dany stuck in the limbo of city politics a la Qarth is still six too many. They can’t be avoided, so the merciful course would be to minimize them.

  290. Ser Tahu
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    When did I ever say straight adaption? With just a few little dramatic additions, the storylines would work brilliantly on screen. A decent number of the great things in ADwD were ones that simply involved a little bit of reading between the lines. If these details were shown on screen it would improve the adaption drastically.

  291. WompWomp
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    Family, Duty, Hodor,

    To be fair, there were things I liked about ADWD (Varamyr’s creepy prologue, the Varys reveal, Quentyn’s appropriate FAIL that would have been a decent three-chapter arc), but I kept thinking nothing justified the page count or the book split from a content perspective. It would seem the decision was more based on circumstance rather than the creative good.

  292. WompWomp
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    Straight adaptation or loose adaptation… Either way, if it’s given two seasons, I keep seeing TV Qarth 2.0, with artificially prolonged and inflated characters that ultimately add up to little more than a city of straw men and women in silk robes. The audience smelled the bull in S2, reader and non-reader alike.

    On another note, I actually liked book Qarth. There was enough mystery and and color there to keep me interested, though a lot of that effect was excised from the adaptation. Meereen on the other hand always felt like a glorified rest stop, despite the intriguing and even respectable premise of Dany settling down to learn how to rule.

    That’s an underhanded way to demonstrate superiority. It just required a little reading between the lines? Let’s say that’s enough to sate my grievances with the book, which I’ll admit it doesn’t. How will that translate to great substantive television, where the storytelling by its very nature must be easier to perceive rather than inferred? Lots of great moments this season bring many layers and meanings to individual scenes, such as the Brienne-Jaime arc. Yes, TV is capable of this complexity. It is, however, a hard-earned effect. I personally dismiss the notion the Dany content in ADWD (among other arcs) has the explicit founding substance for two great seasons of the show.

  293. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    The combined read of AFFC + ADWD is definitely recommended. Personally, I feel that’s how it should have been released, except with about 1/3 of it completely cut. As I see it, AFFC+ADWD is only one book. It’s just that it has more than double the number of point of views as ASOS and so it was split in two to make things manageable.

    But yeah, I kind of like Quentyn before he got fried. But it’s one of those things I just don’t think will work on tv as Quentyn is quite an introverted character too.

  294. WompWomp
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    Family, Duty, Hodor,

    I think he can be adapted well with a handful of scenes. It’s not unheard of to change a character in favor of a more compelling presence onscreen. This is what D&D clarified about Showfinger in the interview posted on NCW.

    I wish someone would put that edited version out. I really don’t want to pick those books up again. Also, I’m concerned knowing what already happens will make the story seem twice as slow.

  295. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    Haha, don’t blame you. Tell you what: if TWOW comes out and it’s awesome, then it’s worth you rereading. But seeing as we have no idea if TWOW will be any good, you might as well wait for now.

  296. WompWomp
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    Family, Duty, Hodor,

    I still have hopes for the show’s adaptation of AFFC/ADWD, so I’m not all doom and gloom. Of course, I’m pinning a lot on the one season outcome. [laughs]

    Yeah, it’s agonizing, but I’m hoping AFFC/ADWD is GRRM’s literary version of orgasm denial. Looooong wait, HARD payoff. (Perhaps even multiple payoffs, please?) Even then he’d be a sadist. XD

  297. AddyStark
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    Alex Dubrovsky,

    I see your point. but I am not suggesting using her as a deus ex machina. I was looking more for a realistic plot device to get her back to Westeros, Nymeria, and back in the game. We already know she didn’t make the best choices when given her first 3 kills by Jaqen H’ghar. Granted, she should have matured somewhat with age and training, but she is still a character driven by emotion and impulse. Just as dragons and magic and white walkers have returned for a reason; direwolves have returned for a reason as well. And Nymeria is named for the legendary queen.
    Bran appears to be returning to the trees. What’s to say that Arya won’t return to the direwolves? Maybe it is wishful thinking, but since she is one of my favorite characters and the only POV character to appear in all the books, I refuse to believe that her story will dead end in Braavos.

  298. Feber Fred
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    I think they will put a lot of the stories from the beginnings of A feast of Crows and Dance with dragons, into season 4.
    Both book 4 and 5 starts really slow and there is a lot that you can cut away there and compress.
    Season 5 will then be the last half of A feast of Crows and Dance with Dragons.

    After that, book 6 will be season 6 and so on.

  299. anuhealani
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    TimeforTravel:
    Well, quite perfect isn’t it? TV watchers do not want to watch Daenerys hanging around in Essos for 9 out of 10 seasons. Books 4 and 5 stretch, good to read, but not as great for a captivating tv adaption.

    So it will probably be like this guy said:

    Who knows, seasons 6 and 7 might even get 12 or 13 episodes, depending on the amount of material books 6 and 7 cover. If it’s as much material as ASoS, 13 episodes would be spot on. We actually have a little too many for season 3. (15-20 or so).

    Girl. :)

  300. Bittersteel914
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    … But that’s a conversation for another day. Haha)

    …or best left to the philosopher’s!……;)

  301. Michael
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    7 seasons is perfect. AFFC and ADWD are in need of narrative focus and editing. There’s very little action in comparison to ASOS. ASOS makes sense as a 2 season adaptation because so much happens. Once you combine the storylines for AFFC+ADWD that looks like one season tops. Our best hope is the 6th book is released before Season 6, but there’s no chance Book 7 comes out before the series is done.

  302. me
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    sorry what was called the battle of ice/fire

  303. WinWolf
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    i expect winds and dream will need 2 seasons each so..

  304. Ross
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    WinWolf:
    i expect winds and dream will need 2 seasons each so..

    Because GRRM has set up SO many unresolved cliff hangers, TWOW will inevitably be another ASOS, with A LOT happening in terms of events (and yay for that!). Which means if they do it as one season, it will be very crammed (if very exciting).

    I have a feeling they will do 7 seasons but end up doing what Breaking Bad and Sopranos have done and splitting the final season in two (for contract reasons) but essentially giving us 8 seasons.

  305. Mark
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    OhDanyBoy:
    I think the uncertainty of the release date for ADOS plays into it.We can be fairly certain that TWOW will be out in time for adaptation (as certain as we can be, George…), so AFFC, ADWD, and TWOW adding up to three seasons might make sense, while the course to take if ADOS is not out is less clear.

    He could also be speaking purely from a production side – perhaps there are contracts or leases in place up to 7 seasons, and there is too much uncertainty past that to be confident of it happening?

    This was my thought too.

    I know everyone actually wants them to crimp and cut AFfC and ADwD, but I actually think those two books are kind of perfect for television adaptation, and putting them on film could really flesh them out. I hope the show spends a good amount of time on them, at least two seasons, and it could probably even go to three.

    The biggest problem with AFfC and ADwD is the distance of characters and variety of locations. Everything is so foreign from one another, all the jumps in setting and scenery are jarring and make it difficult to stay grounded in the characters. It forces a lot of page space to be dedicated to scenery description. Film won’t have this problem. They’ll do the setting and scenery visualization for us, allowing us to stay more connected to the characters and letting the narrative breathe a bit more.

    I actually think the show could really peak in a way the books didn’t during the AFfC/ADwD period. Seeing Brienne traipse through the Riverlands with Pod, taking a tour of Oldtown with Sam, finally get a look at Dorne, explore Braavos with Arya, Volantis with Tyrion, these could all be great on film. I even think the Mereenese knot could play well on screen. The biggest problem with the Mereenese knot isn’t that the story stalls, it’s that it’s so distinct from all the other rich political intrigues that it’s hard to connect with–so much time is spent describing the tokars, the architecture, the pit fighters, etc., that the story gets overwhelmed. Without all that page space dedicated to description, it’s actually a pretty interesting sequence of events, and putting it on the screen solves that problem.

    There are only two storylines in the books that I’m not quite sure will be helped by being put on film:

    Sansa in the Vale, mostly because they’ve already shot their wad with Littlefinger. In the books this is really the first time we get a glimpse inside LF’s head. The show hasn’t done this sequence any favors and will have to find another way to spice it up.

    Theon in Winterfell. This still could be excellent, but it’s also the densest sequence in these two books, if not the whole series. There are so many little details that seem so crucial to what’s happening, and it’s all being told through the eyes of this completely broken man, I’m not sure if the show can live up to the standard the books set here. The whole thing is like a distilled extract of what makes the series so great.

  306. Dekar
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    Pay attention on the sentence: “and if the audience stays with us we’ll probably get through to seven seasons.” It would mean an end if he said ALL seven seasons. I think he wants to say that they can keep making this show as long that there is a book to cover.

  307. Al Swearengen
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    He’s being a little pessimistic but I kinda agree, I love GOT but can we really see the show keeping this momentum long enough to complete the series ? I hope and pray it does but I am prepared for the possibility of the interest dying off.

    Seven series isn’t enough IMO the story is too large and complex to complete in that length of time, it would feel rushed with just seven.

  308. bob
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    Seven sounds right if yo consider they’ll have to finish the show long before George gets round to giving us ADOS.

  309. Bryon Blofstein
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    I am not sure how he would even know this. Is he going by the old addage the there will be one book per season? We already know that is not true.

    ASOS is being split in to two season.

    For those saying that a lot can be cut from AFfC and ADWD I am not sure how possible that is. We have to remember that AFfC and ADWD is happening at the same time. So the first halves of each book would be season 5 and that last halves season 6.

    I agree with WiC that this will half to be a Nine season show, or at least 8.

    We also have to remember that GRRM has already told David, Dan, and Brian the ending.

  310. Mark
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    Ross: Because GRRM has set up SO many unresolved cliff hangers, TWOW will inevitably be another ASOS, with A LOT happening in terms of events (and yay for that!).Which means if they do it as one season, it will be very crammed (if very exciting).

    I have a feeling they will do 7 seasons but end up doing what Breaking Bad and Sopranos have done and splitting the final season in two (for contract reasons) but essentially giving us 8 seasons.

    Does it really have any more cliffhangers than any other book? None of the books really ever reach any kind of resolution, and the resolutions that are reached tend to just create more questions than they answer (Dany’s Dragons, Blackwater, Tyrion and Tywin, etc.).

  311. Xemides
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    I think the question if 7 seasons will be approbiate will be descided when wie know if GRRM stays with 7 books (he minetiioned in an interview that he isn’t sure about the question if 7 are enough or f he needs 8) and how much pages the last 2 oder 3 books will have and what is written in them.

    What if they will more than 100 Pages with interesting and important stories being told and we don’t want to loose a bit of it ?

    I aggree that AFFC and ADoD mus be cutted for the show, but no one can’t be for sure about ne following books.

  312. dizzy
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    From the reading I was at a couple of months ago GRRM confirmed that the Winds of Winter opens with two big battles, the Mereen one of coarse but also one in the North (He didn’t confirm combatants of that one. I speculate Ramsey and Stannis but it could be at the Wall too I suppose) I imagine they might move at least one of those into the “ADWD season” to spread the budget around. I’m thinking TWOW will start to get expensive. I’m sure those won’t be the only battles we’ll see from that book.

  313. GibsonExplorer
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    This is exactly how I’ve envisioned the series. 7 seasons is perfect

  314. Leuf
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

    OhDanyBoy: I think the uncertainty of the release date for ADOS plays into it. We can be fairly certain that TWOW will be out in time for adaptation (as certain as we can be, George…), so AFFC, ADWD, and TWOW adding up to three seasons might make sense, while the course to take if ADOS is not out is less clear.

    You can’t even be sure the 7th book will be called ADOS, the 6th book could turn into two books and book 8 would be ADOS. Everything else has taken him more chapters to write than he expected and there is no reason to think that’s going to change. Even if he was writing faster (which he isn’t) you can’t count on him being done in 7 (which he won’t). If you could count on anything then it might make some sense to draw out the middle of the series, but you can’t. So it’s better for everyone to just accept it. GRRM can still write the best books he can in however much time it takes him and the series can be the best it can without falling into trying to stretch itself out.

    I honestly think they’ve already accepted this and planned accordingly, they just don’t say it publicly because there is nothing to be gained. All they can do is piss off the book fans by talking about it.

  315. kyle
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    They said 80 hour movie. Nine seasons is a pipedream.

  316. Joe Palmer
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    People are saying that they want the seasons to carry on for as long as possible, but remember guys, there is a lot to be had in prequel material with all of the lore that surrounds Game of Thrones.

  317. Listen 2 Ghost!
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    This may have already been mentioned somewhere earlier (sorry, I only read like 60 of the 300+ comments) but I think a big reason this producer said seven season is most of the principal cast is only under contract for 7 years (I think). It may prove to be too difficult and too expensive (especially if some of the cast become big name stars) to resign everyone once that 7 year window closes.

  318. kyle
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    NewJeffCT:
    I think I stated this on here before.

    2014 Season 4 will finish A Storm of Swords, and start FFC and ADWD
    2015 Season 5 will finish FFC and get most of the way through ADWD
    2016 Season 6 will finish ADWD and start WoW
    2017 Season 7 will finish WoW
    2018 – long time between seasons, filled with Tales of Dunk & Egg
    2019 Season 9 will be A Dream of Spring, an extended 13+ episode season.

    2020 – NASA invents special satellite that can scratch your ass from space with a laser beam.

  319. J
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Seven seasons is a pipe dream. Five, maybe. The Wire was the greatest show ever, and it only lasted 5 years. Some of Martin’s character arcs are really too strange for TV anyway. Tyrion’s drift into the “Heart of Darkness.” And Bran? Can anyone explain the point of that story arc? Really? Let’s just get “Business Class” back to Westeros with her dragons, and let her fight it out with Stannis before the White Walkers overrun Oldtown and the screen fades to black.

  320. charles
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    Thye can make their cuts, but i better get my efing greyjoys and my dorne.

  321. charles
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    Also, i mean if time is an issue with the books, i’m sure we would all be OK for them taking a year off to maybe adapt some dunk and egg? It keepts GOT on our TVS and gives them time. I mean, if the fanbase grows and grows HBO won’t abandon the series. Time is still early, much can change with just a year. Remember we all though the blackfish, olenna, etc were getting the axe? Look at the season 3 cast. I’m sure they won’t gut they greyjoys or dorne. Make changes yes, but remove them completely? I doubt it.

  322. Zack
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    These books were not up to previous books because of the lackluster stories for already established characters, not because they introduced new areas.

    Dornish and Iron Islands material is a large part of why the books can’t just be entirely written off IMO. If they present Dany exactly as in the book, or Tyrion, or Brienne, it will be a disaster. They’re gonna have to spice up those dull plot lines somehow. I don’t know if I have faith or not.

    IMO Dany had stronger material in Clash of Kings than she did in Dance with Dragons, and yet GoT S2, her arc was horrendous. WHERE R MUH DRAGONS x a billion

  323. Pau Soriano
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    When season 8 is greenlighted will be fun to come back and see who was swearing by the old gods and the new that 7 is the maximun we could get… :P

  324. Lord Elrosir
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    charles: I mean, if the fanbase grows and grows HBO won’t abandon the series.

    Have you ever heard of Rome?

  325. Darquemode
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    Lord Elrosir,

    Not sure that is a great comparison.
    Rome began with a 2-year contract, and they knew before the second season ended that it would not be renewed. If I recall correctly, not long after Season 2 began, but it could even have been before Season 2 began…

    It is a bit different than a show that is year to year and continually rising in ratings and revenue as Game of Thrones is. I’m not saying HBO could not cancel it after 4 or 5 seasons, but why would they?

  326. sunspear
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    Family, Duty, Hodor:
    Major developments in ASOS:

    Dany acquires an army, takes Astapor, Yunkai and Meereen.
    Tyrion marries Sansa, gets accused of Joffrey’s death. Escapes prison and kills Shae and Tywin.
    Jon Snow meets Mance, acts as a double agent but falls in love with Ygritte, defects and fights at the Wall, kills Ygritte, is saved by Stannis after major battle
    Robb Stark and a huge group of Northern Bannerman are betrayed by Walder Frey and Roose Bolton, entirely wiping out the Northern resistance. Boltons take control. Cat dies but comes back as Lady Stoneheart.
    Jaime loses his hand and starts to become a better person. Helps free Tyrion.
    Sansa leaves with Littlefinger for th Eyrie. Littlefinger murders Lysa Arryn assuming control of the Vale.
    Oberyn introduces Dorne, fights Gregor but dies. Gregor dies of poisoning.

    So you get the idea about the difference between the ASOS and AFFC+ADWD.

    You seem to be using two wildly different standards for ASOS and ADWD. Here’s a list of major plot developments of Dance:

    -Quentyn journeys to Meereen, proposes marriage to Dany.
    -Yunkai mercenaries raze Astapor, force Dany into a political marriage to give up her control.
    -Roose Bolton captures Moat Cailin, goes to Winterfell and marries his daughter to fake Arya.
    -Stannis leaves the Wall, makes an alliance with the mountain clans, captures Deepwood Motte, marches on Winterfell.
    -Dany flies out of the fighting pits on Drogon, Barristan takes over the city government again.
    -Cersei takes a walk of shame, gets out of the Great Sept.
    -Jaime captures Raventree Hall.
    -Arya regains her sight.
    -Tyrion meets up with Jorah, arrive in Meereen and plots out the coming battle.
    -Theon escapes Winterfell with Fake Arya.
    -Jon lets the Wildlings through the wall, restores castles, and gets stabbed in the back.
    -Aegon lands in Westeros and starts taking castles.

  327. Darquemode
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    sunspear,

    Agreed.
    ADwD has many major or relatively major events in my mind too. Some f them do not seem like major points on their own maybe, but they are key points of development in the narrative of the story

    Of course they could be cut back, but then again so could almost any of the scenes and arcs in the first 3 seasons! Did we need so many scees of Arya in Tywin’s camp? Of course not, but it mde for great TV and was almost entirely new to the series material.

    Why people do not think the existing material in ADwD or AFfC could be augmented in such a way is beyond me! There is more than enough material for 2 seasons, 2 good seasons, as the books stand. After adaptation if they film scenes only mentioned in the books they could make 2 great seasons easily.

    I get if they think HBO will only give 7 seasons. Then of course they need to cut somewhere and in my opinion, greatly deviate from the books as to not spoil key moments and the ending of the books since the series finale would b 2 or 3 years before GRRM releases his final book in all likelihood.

    At his point, by all appearance, HBO is I for the long haul. Executives have yet to say anything about limiting the number of seasons. Being that we are only a third of the way through the saga of course that could cage in a few years…..

  328. sunspear
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    Darquemode,

    Exactly. I would like to point out that AFFC-ADWD is pretty much the same page count as ACOK-ASOS, and that’s getting 2.5 seasons. Cutting the 4th and 5th books down to 2 seasons, or 5 episodes worth of content, would already be cutting them down to the bone.

    I also like Ser Tahu’s list of extra scenes they could add, though I think 10 seasons would be too much. 8 is the right number.

  329. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    sunspear,

    I just don’t see how the events in ADWD are anyway comparable to the events in ASOS. And whilst there’s no quantitative way to analyse this, I would argue that every plot point I listed in ASOS is really major and exciting. Looking through your points for ADWD, I find the plot points:

    1. Boring and virtually irrelevant (despite some decent characterisation)
    2. A minor plot point
    3. Fairly interesting plot point but fairly expected
    4. Fairly interesting but nothing shocking and ends without a conclusion
    5. The best part of her story but does not make amends for the preceding weak chapters. Nothing particularly surprising happens though.
    6. But her main story is still not concluded. That particular plot point was also boring. Who wants to read about a mysoginistic shaming?
    7. It’s such an irrelevant, small place I simply don’t care. Nor will tv viewers.
    8. Taking her back to exactly the same position she was in at the end of ASOS
    9. So he doesn’t do anything.
    10. Decent plot point, and part of the best arc in the book.
    11. Would be good if we didn’t know it was fake.
    12. Halfway interesting but about a character nobody has any reason to care about.

    ASOS has way way more going on. No doubt about it.

  330. Jeff O'Connor
    Posted May 17, 2013 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

    J,

    The Wire lasted five seasons because the viewership wasn’t there.

    The viewership is there for Game of Thrones to make it to seven or eight.

  331. loco73
    Posted May 18, 2013 at 4:04 am | Permalink

    As much as I would like to believe that about nine seasons, I highly doubt it!!! There is no way HBO will have a show that is this expensive and hard to produce, last nine seasons. Just look at most of their shows and the runs they had, “The Sopranos”, “OZ”, “Sex And The City” , “Six Feet Under” and “The Wire” all had full runs and none lasted more than six seasons. “Entourage” lasted 8 seasons, but that was a 30 min. show and not terribly expensive to produce.

    IF we are lucky enough to get the entire story arch (minus whatever omissions and modifications they’ll have to do) 7 seasons sounds good enough, that would make it the longest running show HBO ever produced (it remains to be seen what happens with “True Blood” after the sixth season). 8 seasons would be ideal.

    Besides if I remember correctly D&D mentioned something about 8 seasons being needed to really include as much of the story as possible without major changes. As much as I love GoT I tend to think that 7 seasons would be more realistic.

    While I love the books and I want much of the story to be incorporated into the show, there are things that can be cut out in order to fit a 7 seasons run.

    Stranger things have happened, but at this point in time it really seems unlikely that HBO would commit financially to a show the size of GoT, and given the ever increasing scope and scale of the story, a fact which won’t be lost on both the producers and the network heads, lets hope and pray that we get a full run, the wonderful story brought to life, and if that can be done in 7 seasons even better. I’d hate to think of the alternative which is…cancellation!

  332. Tori Targaryen
    Posted May 18, 2013 at 4:10 am | Permalink

    loco73:
    As much as I would like to believe that about nine seasons, I highly doubt it!!!There is no way HBO will have a show that is this expensive and hard to produce,last nine seasons.Just look at most of their shows and the runs they had, “The Sopranos”, “OZ”,“Sex And The City” , “Six Feet Under” and “The Wire” all had full runs and none lasted more than six seasons.“Entourage” lasted 8 seasons, but that was a 30 min. show and not terribly expensive to produce.

    IF we are lucky enough to get the entire story arch (minus whatever omissions and modifications they’ll have to do) 7 seasons sounds good enough, that would make it the longest running show HBO ever produced (it remains to be seen what happens with “True Blood” after the sixth season).8 seasons would be ideal.

    Besides if I remember correctly D&D mentionedsomething about 8 seasons being needed to really include as much of the story as possible without major changes.As much as I love GoT I tend to think that 7 seasons would be more realistic.

    While I love the books and I want much of the story to be incorporated into the show, there are things that can be cut out in order to fit a 7 seasons run.

    Stranger things have happened, but at this point in time it really seems unlikely that HBO would commit financially to a show the size of GoT, and given the ever increasing scope and scale of the story, a fact which won’t be lost on both the producers and the network heads, lets hope and pray that we get a full run,the wonderful story brought to life, and if that can be done in 7 seasons even better.I’d hate to think of the alternative which is…cancellation!

    I understand and agree with much of what you have said, but I am hoping that HBO will allow the full story arch to be completed, given that this series is the most popular they have ever brought to the screen. It really is incredible. So I have all fingers and toes crossed that they do not stupidly cancel this….. The uproar would be biblical lol

  333. MadGez
    Posted May 18, 2013 at 4:15 am | Permalink

    anuhealani,

    Completely agree with you. Season 3 started off brilliantly but the middle is dragging because they’d like to end the season with certain events. They should have finished off book 3 this season (perhaps with 12 episodes) and/or they could have saved a key event or two for early season 4.

    One season is more than enough for AFFC and ADWD. There is plenty to cut out especially from Book 4.

  334. Suzaku
    Posted May 18, 2013 at 6:49 am | Permalink

    MadGez:
    anuhealani,

    One season is more than enough for AFFC and ADWD.

    Feast and Dance combined are nearly twice as long as Storm. It’s hard for me to fathom them being able to cut them down to a single season without eliminating a ton of the material and characters.

    And then they’d be left high and dry without Martin’s source material, and would either have to end the series on their own before he publishes his books, or go on hiatus, or deviate from Martin’s plans.

  335. Atreyu
    Posted May 18, 2013 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ,

    I have not read the contract, either. But, I do know that GRRM said HBO has the authority to do whatever they want with the story, up to and including sparkly vampires. It’s on his blog.

    So, there’s that.

  336. tysnow
    Posted May 18, 2013 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    Everyone talks about how boring Brienne’s and Tyrion’s road trips are in Feast and Dances, but personally I feel Arya’s dead end story in Braavos is the most boring part of Feast and Dance’s. It will definitely need a rework, I was like screaming at GRRM (get her out of that damn dull Venice!) and back into where the action was. Very similar to Dany’s waaaaay to loooong stay in Mereen.
    How many of you thought Arya’s two book stay in Braavos was a little to long and dull, with nothing happening. This is why I believe D&D will incorporate the 5 year leap. I would rather have Arya find JH in Oldtown (canal city to0) and have him train her there.
    That way she can meet up with Sam, when he arrives.

  337. Xemides
    Posted May 18, 2013 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    tysnow,

    I enjoyed Aryas stay in Braavos and had lots of fun with her education. There were some cool ideas in it and I would like to see how it changes her way of thinking.

  338. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted May 18, 2013 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    tysnow,

    It’s ok but I don’t like how becoming a Faceless Man is basically losing your identity. If Arya goes down that route I will no longer care for her as a character – because she won’t have one. I do, however, expect her to leave soon. If that’s the case, I won’t be unhappy with her storyline.

    Also, I liked the thing about the guy biting the gold. That was cool.

  339. DH87
    Posted May 18, 2013 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    Listen 2 Ghost!: I think a big reason this producer said seven season is most of the principal cast is only under contract for 7 years (I think). It may prove to be too difficult and too expensive (especially if some of the cast become big name stars) to resign everyone once that 7 year window closes.

    It remains a mystery whether a “seven year” contract is a “seven seasons” contract. Since an eighth season could theoretically be filmed in seven calendar years, the contract players still “alive” in plot terms could not only film an eighth season but theoretically sign on as guest stars for subsequent seasons. At this point, I don’t think we’ve seen a break-out star from those who signed seven year contracts—someone so much in demand that huge film offers would prevent him/her from signing on as guest stars.

  340. The Golden Hand
    Posted May 18, 2013 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    Don’t know if this has been mentioned before but one thing they could do to really shorten things up would be to cut out Mereen completely and have Yunkai function in it’s place. They’ve really played up the harpy statues in both Yunkai and Astapor’s opening animations. And it could keep things nice and concise. Similar to how they have combined multiple book characters into a single show character Just my two gold dragons…

  341. Ser Tahu
    Posted May 18, 2013 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    Am I seriously the only one that believes that Meereen can be adapted to the screen without massive cuts? As long as they de-emphasise the whole Daenerys wanting to sleep with Daario situation it could be brilliant.
    season 5 – Shadow war within the city and Daenerys trying to hold Meereen. Ends with Daenerys imprisoning the dragons. The whole arc is focused on Daenerys trying to balance control of the city and her dragons
    season 6 – The forces of Yunkai approach and eventually besiege the city. Quentyn arrives and the whole marriage situation happens. Also, the whole sellsword betrayel storyline happens (hopefully with Brown Ben Plumm, but they could replace him with Daario). Either ends with or just before the Dragon Pit. The focus of this arc is preparing for the siege, similar to the atmosphere in season 2 of Kings Landing
    season 7 – possibly starts with the dragon pit (but I think it will end season 6). Daenerys is in the Dothraki sea, wins over the khalasar and returns either near the end or just after the battle. Meereen itself starts with the aftermath of Daenerys’ disappearance. The Quentyn-dragon and Barristan/Shavepate-Hizdahr plots both go down, and the battle begins. The season ends with the defeat of all of Daenerys’ enemies, allowing her to head to Westeros.
    ADwD (+the start of TWoW) could make three great seasons of television as far as Daenerys is concerned, if they focus on the right things.
    Also:
    season 2 – start of Stannis’ campaign
    season 4 – possibly start of Euron’s campaign
    season 6 – start of Aegon’s campaign
    season 8 – start of Daenerys’ campaign. it is a nice pattern.

  342. Pau
    Posted May 19, 2013 at 6:46 am | Permalink

    Well imo AFFC&ADWD can never be 1 season only, my bet is 1,5-2 at least, and that would mean 8 seasons and not 7. I guess will know soon enough, in 13 months or so, through the casting news from season 5. With those clues we’ll be able to figure out many of the answers

  343. Daniel
    Posted May 19, 2013 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    No… No one wants to see more seasons of Dany fighting the same city states.

  344. Baramos
    Posted May 22, 2013 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    I have the feeling quite a bit of 4 and 5 will be cut in the final product–there are what, three Tyrion chapters before they [spoiler]even get going down the river? And it’s all his thoughts on his situation and various bits of lore…[/spoiler]. That’s just one example.

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