Looking Forward Ep. 30 and the What Ifs
By Winter Is Coming on in Speculation.

Tywin Lannister

Oz of Thrones:  A man has emerged from the cold, dark room.  The Bon Bons have been consumed, and the pack of smokes, smoked.  The healing has begun.  (Who am I kidding…. I have been at work all damn week like most of you).  While I was present in body at the office, my mind was elsewhere, especially Monday and Tuesday.  The feeling was if I had actually lost a family member, even though Robb, Catelyn, and Talisa were far from my favorite characters on the show.  I bore a heavy heart nonetheless.  And to all the wonderful WiC readers who will forever only hold the banner of Team Stark, your pain most likely still resonates worse than my own.  And for that, I wish you a speedy recovery.

But we must move on.  We must rise from the flame and ash and hope for better days.  A man must not dwell in the past, but look to the future.  Before we venture there, I want to share a few final thoughts on the Rains of Castamere…..

(As a courtesy, allow me to apologize for the length.  Last week’s Looking Forward was a bit short.  This one is a bit long.  For those of you in a hurry, here are the cliffsnotes…. Oz emerges.  Oz asks “what if”.  Oz rants. Oz tells what will make him happy and asks what will make you happy.  The End.)

Proceed with caution.

After reviewing and contemplating the epicness of what will forever be referred to as the Red Wedding, a man has come to some astounding conclusions (insert joke here).  Many great authors, GoT experts, book-readers, and otherwise nonchalant show viewers have written countless pieces on the traumatic events from Sunday night.   I’ve read numerous articles, listened to parody songs, viewed comics, and watched numerous show reactions. We have all been subjected to glorious reviews, epic whining, rants, tears, complaints, rage, and almost every type of emotion that you can imagine.

Through it all, a few moments of clarity have struck me since Wednesday.  So, please brace yourselves for these groundbreaking revelations that have encompassed my mind since viewing (and painfully re-viewing) Episode 29.  Are you ready, because this is deep shit…….

1. I do not like Walder Frey.

Profound, huh?  Actually, it didn’t take the RW for me to dislike Lord Frey.  The first time we ever witnessed the guy on screen, he was rubbing on the backside of a girl that couldn’t have been more than 14 years old.  If there is one thing I dislike more than English peas (something about the texture and the mush inside of them), it is dirty old men who prey on young girls.  Visions of Craster dance through my head.  I guess if he was still alive and their paths had ever crossed, Walder and Craster would have had a lot in common.  But fortune was on our side in terms of the demise of Craster, thanks to the infamous bad drug deal at the Keep.  Could we be so lucky if the same thing happened to Walder?  So…..

2. The What Ifs.

What if after the Red Wedding, Bolton and Company have some type of a falling-out and Roose sent his regards to Walder from the Lannisters?  Better yet, what if Boy is indeed Roose’s bastard and somehow we could get Walder strapped to the Big X?  Ah…. Flayed Frey.  That would make me happy.

What if Robb hadn’t married Talisa?  Would it have mattered since Tywin could be the mastermind of the entire event?

What if Robb had spared Karstark? He likely would not have been seeking help from the Freys.  But would it have mattered since Bolton was seemingly in bed with the Lannisters anyway?

I could “what if” you all day.  The fact is that Robb was likely doomed from the moment he married Talisa, and he was arguably doomed before that.  Edmure’s wedding was the opportunity.  And the Red Wedding will likely go down as one of the most memorable moments in television.  The GoT world has blown up.  It has been mentioned on every major television network in one way or another over the past few days.  The popularity of the show is about to reach a new height in which none of us likely ever envisioned.  As a fan of the show, how could you ask for more?

But, leave it to some “experts” to do so.  Here is one more “what if”, and this one just gripes me to no end…..

3. What if D&D had not shown the stabbing of Talisa’s belly?  Would it have produced the same traumatic effect if the graphicness was not there and the implied stabbing of the belly is all we were shown?

Please understand, I don’t want to reopen this can of worms.  If you want to discuss this more, then please do it here.  I just want to say that this is a Game of Chaos is a Ladder, NOT a Game of Chutes and Ladders.  It’s not for everyone.  Only big kids can play here.  I don’t mean to offend or isolate anyone, but if you are looking for happy endings with Blow Pops and unicorns, then this is probably not the show for you.

On the other hand, if you really want to see some gratuitous sex and violence, then please allow me to recommend these:

Spartacus:  As a symptom of GoT withdrawal before the beginning of Season 3, I made it through an episode and a half of this show during a free Starz weekend.  Now, I mean no disrespect to the show or the people that love it, but it is simply not for me.  Through the 1.5 episodes, there was more of that “gratuitous” stuff than an entire Season of GoT.  I have seen no one slamming Spartacus for being too gratuitous, but it has not reached a mainstream level like GoT has reached.

Isn’t it funny how that works?  A show gets popular because of what it is doing on-screen and the buzz that surrounds it.  More people start watching.  In the process, I assume a few new viewers are offended by what is shown and believe that since they were offended and the show is becoming more popular, it must change to accommodate them.  Note to D&D, Mr. Cogman, and others who are involved….. Please continue to do what you are doing.  Do not bow to the pressure of popularity.  You are in the process of creating a show that will be passed along for generations.  Keep it up.

Back to gratuitous Spartacus.  It may not be fair to judge a show based on 1.5 episodes.  I am only testifying to what I witnessed.  But I can speak about this next one with no doubts whatsoever.  You want gratuitous?  Here it is…..

Caligula (1979):  A full-length feature film featuring some great actors including Malcolm McDowell, Peter O’Toole, and Helen Mirren.  If you don’t know the story of this bad dude, I would recommend you read about it instead of renting this.  But if the curiosity is killing you, understand that this film is as repulsive as it is shocking.  Oh, and it contains full-blown porn.  That is gratuitous.  You have been warned.

I don’t know about you, but I would get along just fine if I didn’t hear the word “gratuitous” for a long time.  So let’s move on.

4. Looking Forward Ep. 30:  Would it be too much to ask for an uplifting ending to the Season?  Probably.

The Ozzette Wish:  My lovely bride hopes that at least one Stark child will find safety somewhere.  Maybe Rickon makes it to the Umbers with no problems along the way.  Or maybe Bran finds Jon Snow and they are reunited.  Or maybe Arya finds a safe place with the Hound, or even meets up with one of her brothers.  Any of these would be a nice ending to a tragic season for the Stark’s.

Will Jaime make it to King’s Landing?  As much as I dislike the Lannisters right now, I do hope that Jaime makes it back and has more of an involvement in the future of the realm for next season.  My only concern is what will become of Brienne, and if Jaime will fight to protect her from the Lannister wrath.  He better.

Is Bolton a power player now?  I would think so.  As bad as I hate what he did to the Starks, I like the character and I hope there is more James Bond Bolton in the future.  In the re-viewing of Ep. 29, it became obvious that Bolton makes a point to tell Cat what is coming before it all went down.  When he laid his arm down close to Cat, looked at her, glanced down at his arm, and she pulls the coat back to see the chainmail, he beats Frey to the punch of what is coming.  This was an awesome add-in to what would have already been an epic scene, and a point of interest that Ozzette and I have discussed the whole week.  Well done.  Bolton is a badass.

Will Dany get on a ship, or find another slave city to free?  Or neither?  From the preview, it looks like Dany and the Jedis are not out of the Yunkai woods yet.  But I did see dragons, and dragons are good.  I wonder if the very end of this episode will feature Dany and the three dragons, much like the end of season 1 did.  Only this time, she is surrounded by an army.  That would be quite symbolic of how far she has come.

Are Joffrey and Tywin going to lock horns?  I have been expecting a power struggle between the two for some time, as Tywin seems to be running the joint and Joffrey doesn’t appreciate being told what to do.  This may be saved for next season, but I believe it is coming.  Don’t mess with Paw Paw.

Hodor? What is Hodor looking down into on the previews?  And who is Meera Reed about to slash?

Lemon Cakes:  I wouldn’t mind hearing a couple of Queen of Thrones quotes before the season concludes.  And a Varys or Littlefinger citing wouldn’t hurt my feelings either, although Littlefinger seems highly unlikely.  But whenever the show wants to give me some Lysa Arryn, I am ready.  Breast feeding boys, unite!

Gendry:  Any chance he gets away?  I guess it is doubtful.  But what will the Red Woman do to him next?

And finally…

The Brotherhood Without Banners:  Where have these guys been?  Last we heard they were going after some Lannister men when Arya got away only to swept up by the Hound.  I am curious to see what their reaction is to the Red Wedding, and if they will take up the cause of the Starks.  Optimism.  Spread it.

What are you guys hoping to learn on our final episode?  What would you like to see before we have to wait another ten months?  Hit me up in the comments…. A man will be lurking there off and on all weekend.  BUT NO SPOILERS PLEASE!  Do the spoilery over in the Ep. 30 preview later, with tags and such.  I thank you in advance. 

By the way….. Final Forward?  When WinterPhil and I got together, our agreement was that I provided the Newbie Recaps on Mondays.  I felt compelled and asked Phil if it was ok if I did an extra post so the Unsullied would have a place to discuss over the weekends leading up to the next episode.  To my surprise, many of the Sullied on the site loved the Looking Forwards which was flattering to say the least.  I realize my writing style is not for everyone, but a lot of you have embraced me and made your feelings known.  For this, a man is quite grateful.

So, if this happens to be it, I want to sincerely thank you for putting up with my casual style, weird antics, and prediction humor this season.  I have had a blast, and the interaction with you guys (the best readers in the world) on WiC has made this season something I will never forget.

At the very least, I will see you all Monday for the final Newbie Recap of Season 3!  Have a great weekend, and may there be peace in your realm. -Oz


178 Comments

  1. Vidluv
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    I’m HODORing all over the place today.

    That’s what she said.

  2. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    Father!

  3. Caplan
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    Ho- f’ing- dor

  4. FiveTwentyTen
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    Bolton is a badass

    Yes, he is. And an evil, creepy one at that.

    There’s just something about the reaction of Unsullied viewers to this show that I like, almost *almost* makes me wish that I was unsullied myself.

  5. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    Roose Bolton is a sleazy, turncloak slumlord living off of Fat Walda’s dowry.

  6. Troy
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    Hope to see you next season. As one of the Sullied, I enjoyed all of your contributions to the discussion. It’s always fun to see someone discover this world and these characters for the first time.

  7. Huge Floppys
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    Yea its pretty unfortunate Bolton turned evil now b/c he really is a great character.

  8. Zack
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    These posts are among the most fun each week. Thanks for the consistent enjoyment.

    Signed, a Sullied

  9. Lou Reed
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    I think we will see some more happening at the Twins. There is the matter of the Blackfish, and there is the matter of Robbs army in tents outside the Twins.

    Read somewhere that the season will end in good spirit and a high tone, and it would make sense to throw the audience some hope, after the horrors of episode 9.

    Most sullied are probably hoping/expecting a particular ending.

    And Frey will have earned the title of least popular House in Westeros.

  10. D'Arcy
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    Hodor! Stop Hodoring!

  11. Rat Bastard
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    Huge Floppys,

    “Turned” evil? He was probably always evil. Even in season 2, he doesn’t have any problem with flaying prisoners alive. Sure, he was fighting for Robb (at the time), but he’s not a nice guy by any stretch.

  12. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    An episode and a half of Spartacus? Definitely not enough to pass judgment. The show took a few episodes to find its feet in the first season but it’s deceptively touching, with some fantastic characters and plots. It manages to temper the nudity later, but if you don’t like violence then you’ll have a hard time. It depicts a brutal time period. It also has a series finale to die for. You may find it hard to go back into the show if you’ve already written it off, but I don’t think it’s something you’d regret.

    Looking forward to your recap of the final episode. Always love the newbie recaps.

  13. FiveTwentyTen
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    And Frey will have earned the title of least popular House in Westeros.

    Will have? I think they already did! *lol* Can you imagine being the next poor sod that gets a dinner invite from Lord Frey? You might well see the next family eating their meal under the Frey roof in full plated steel armor. Wonder if they’ll invent the straw, so as to allow drinking through the visor of a helmet?

  14. JP Johnson
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    I would actually like to see a “Looking Forward Season 4″ next Friday, and then one just before the next season after you’ve had time to stew. As a book reader, I have to say that I love your posts and will certainly miss them during the break.

  15. Adria
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    I think the reason Walder and Roose were in bed with the Lannisters was because Robb had already screwed them over. Robb betrayed Walder so there was no reason for Walder to keep his word to Robb, and Roose knows a sinking ship when he sees it. So if Robb hadn’t married Talisa and/or hadn’t killed Karstark the Red Wedding wouldn’t have happened. Certainly there’d be no wedding between Edmure and Roslin and the Freys probably would not have betrayed the Starks at the wedding of Robb and Roslin (or whatever Frey girl he picked.)

  16. rukie44
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    To me one of the greatest joys in the world is watching how other people react to things. That’s why I entered the film and television industry.

    As a Sullied it has been a pleasure reading your reviews each week. It has been like watching each episode twice… as myself and as someone who is loking at the show with fresh eyes. I look forward to your finale review, and to all of your reviews to come.

  17. Elisa
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    To live to an old age in ASOIAF, you can’t be a nice guy. Well done this season Oz.

  18. Roger König
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    Troy:
    Hope to see you next season.As one of the Sullied, I enjoyed all of your contributions to the discussion.It’s always fun to see someone discover this world and these characters for the first time.

    This Sullied agrees completely. :)

  19. MUGger
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    Oz -if you are looking for a TV series like “GoT”, I suggest you try “I Claudius” from the 1970s. All the political mechinations, poisoning, and assassinations your heart could desire! What’s more — Livia =Cersei; Caligula = Joffrey x10; and Claudius =Tyrion. I’m sure there are other parallels (and I am convinced that this series influenced GRRM at some point).

  20. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    Question for the Unsullied; when was Robb’s cause truly doomed. What do you think was the point of no return?
    a) Robb accepts the title of King in the North
    b) Robb sends Theon to the Iron Islands
    c) Robb marries Talisa
    d) The execution of Rickard Karstark
    e) Other
    This is probably my favorite debate in the fandom so now that you have a little time to process the RW I’m curious about what you.
    My answer is a. If the North wasn’t seeking independence Stannis would have wanted them as allies. The battle of Blackwater would’ve been tipped in Stannis’ favor with the addition of the Northern and Riverlands forces. Also, since Stannis had plenty of naval power there would’ve been no reason for Robb to send Theon to the Iron Islands to ask Balon for ships.
    If any of you Unsullied folk have thoughts on the matter I’d love to know them.

  21. Jentario
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    Troy:
    Hope to see you next season.As one of the Sullied, I enjoyed all of your contributions to the discussion.It’s always fun to see someone discover this world and these characters for the first time.

    This

  22. wombat88
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh:
    An episode and a half of Spartacus? Definitely not enough to pass judgment. The show took a few episodes to find its feet in the first season but it’s deceptively touching, with some fantastic characters and plots. It manages to temper the nudity later, but if you don’t like violence then you’ll have a hard time. It depicts a brutal time period. It also has a series finale to die for. You may find it hard to go back into the show if you’ve already written it off, but I don’t think it’s something you’d regret.

    Looking forward to your recap of the final episode. Always love the newbie recaps.

    Agreed! Spartacus does feel a little watered down in comparison to GoT at times but nonetheless it is a very enjoyable show. John Hannah is exceptional and the series finale is pretty damn epic!
    Oz of Thrones I love your posts!

  23. Khal-A-Bunga
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:13 pm | Permalink
  24. HellFell
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    The Boltons still keep the flayed skins of several ancient Starks somewhere in their Dreadfort castle

  25. Chinery
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    I hope we get at least one more looking forward after the finale for season 4 and beyond!

    It’s great to read your predictions. I’m always impressed by how much you and the other unsullied pick up on, when I worry they may not have been as clear as the books.

  26. Adria
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    As much as I dislike the Lannisters right now,

    Really? At this point in the game I would think that people would have shed those ideas of ‘Starks=good, Lannisters=bad”. The story is obviously more complicated and more interesting than that. And if you think that because certain Lannister family members are supreme @#*$!s that all Lannisters are bad, then you’ve been listening to Catelyn Stark too much.

  27. Hounded
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    Huge Floppys,

    From the RW onwards is when Roose is at his best. And he hasn’t ‘turned evil’. He’s always been a shady dude except before he fought for Robb.

    I have to agree with Oz that Bolton is a badass.
    Its weird because when I was reading the Red Wedding happen in the book I hated Walder Frey so much it hurt. And yet with Roose I kind of thought… this dude… he’s pretty cool.

    So yes, definitely keep an eye on him !

  28. FiveTwentyTen
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Really? At this point in the game I would think that people would have shed those ideas of ‘Starks=good, Lannisters=bad”.

    It certainly is a story without few black and white truths, however there are more “good” Starks than “good” Lannisters, well… there are actually fewer Starks all around, but you get the point. ;-)

  29. Blaat
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    Join the cause! “Our Blades are Sharp.”

    Anyway it has been nice to read the show from a reader’s perspective. The reader threads often get bogged down in endless nitpicking over the tiniest details. Also the speculation gives an idea what viewers pick up on and what not.

  30. Sylar
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    Hodor?

  31. Khal-A-Bunga
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    And also, I’ve really enjoyed these posts as well, so hopefully you’ll be back next season. And, time permitting, maybe you could do a season review some time over the summer if you’ve got the time, and throw in some season four predictions.

  32. We do not Hodor
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    The unsullied posts are my favorites. May your adventures never be spoiled.

  33. Prince of Dorne
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    I think it clearly is when he marries Jane Westerling (well, Talisa to the unsullied). That’s the point in which there’s no return with the Demon of the Crossing….

  34. John
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    JP Johnson:
    I would actually like to see a “Looking Forward Season 4″ next Friday, and then one just before the next season after you’ve had time to stew.As a book reader, I have to say that I love your posts and will certainly miss them during the break.

    +1

    plus you have to swear by the old Gods and the new (I hope you are not one of the Red God?) that you will return for season 4, as Unsullied as ever ;-)

  35. Huge Floppys
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    Rat Bastard,

    Well when i say evil, i mean when turned against the Starks and the North. He obvioulsy was always a twisted bastard

  36. Adria
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    FiveTwentyTen: It certainly is a story without few black and white truths, however there are more “good” Starks than “good” Lannisters, well… there are actually fewer Starks all around, but you get the point. ;-)

    Now that we’ve gotten rid of the bad Starks. ;)

  37. Lady of Highgarden
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    Jentario,
    shouldn’t this be spoiler tagged?

    Oz: Thanks for a great ride! I’ve enjoyed reading your recaps and experiencing the show from an unsullied POV more than anything this season! :)

  38. Turncloak
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    I hope Roose appears in episode 10, the actor that plays him is fantastic.

  39. Delta1212
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    wombat88: Agreed! Spartacus does feel a little watered down in comparison to GoT at times but nonetheless it is a very enjoyable show. John Hannah is exceptional and the series finale is pretty damn epic!
    Oz of Thrones I love your posts!

    To judge it as being bad? I agree with you. To judge it as being filled with ridiculous amounts of nudity and violence to a degree unmatched by practically anything on television? Yeah, it’s pretty much like that.

  40. FiveTwentyTen
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    Adria,

    Find the Stark” a new, lively Westerosi game that became famous among the Freys of the Riverlands and the Boltons of the North–once the Starks became as scarce as a smile on Lord Tywin’s face.

  41. Yellow Dog
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    I think Bolton was just pissed because Robb wouldn’t let him flay the prisoners.

  42. Addie
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    I for one hope you are back and at it again here next year for season 4.

    I’ve enjoyed reading your unsullied recaps and introspects into the world of westeros.

  43. Kevin
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    Oz, this Sullied greatly enjoyed reading all of your posts over the past 10 weeks. I like your brand of humor, mixed in with grim predictions/reactions about what happens on the show. I hope you will come back for season 4.

  44. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    I hope Roose appears in episode 10, the actor that plays him is fantastic.

    Seconded! He’s just about exactly how I saw him in my head.

  45. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    John: +1

    plus you have to swear by the old Gods and the new (I hope you are not one of the Red God?) that you will return for season 4, as Unsullied as ever ;-)

    I do solemnly swear by the Old and the New, that if therefore WiC and Company have me return, I shall remain Unsullied and will refrain from visiting those Boards of Spoilery forums from this day until my last day. Signed in blood…. -Oz

  46. Dickon Manwoody
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    “But whenever the show wants to give me some Lysa Arryn, I am ready. Breast feeding boys, unite!”

    Errrr ahhhh do I really want to know what you mean by “breast feeding boys, unite!” ? Haha

    I’ve really enjoyed all your newbie recaps and looking forwards. Hope to see them again next year!

  47. Yellow Dog
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    MUGger:
    Oz -if you are looking for a TV series like “GoT”, I suggest you try “I Claudius” from the 1970s. All the political mechinations, poisoning, and assassinations your heart could desire! What’s more — Livia =Cersei; Caligula = Joffrey x10; and Claudius =Tyrion. I’m sure there are other parallels (and I am convinced that this series influenced GRRM at some point).

    Dead on. I should have thought of this myself. I love I Claudius, and Derek Jacoby is brilliant. There’s even the PBS version of “Caligula” in one episode.

  48. Delta1212
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Well, unless you lump it in with the review next week, I’d rather have a “Looking Forward to Season 4″ than make this the Final Forward.

  49. Person
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    It makes me so so happy to see Unsullied enjoy Roose. I pretty much love him on the show (and in the books). He is indeed a badass.

  50. Downesdarrion
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    JP Johnson: I would actually like to see a “Looking Forward Season 4″ next Friday, and then one just before the next season after you’ve had time to stew. As a book reader, I have to say that I love your posts and will certainly miss them during the break.

    Seconded!

  51. Huge Floppys
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    I heard Roose Bolton feeds off of baby tears

  52. Yellow Dog
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    Adria:
    As much as I dislike the Lannisters right now,

    Really? At this point in the game I would think that people would have shed those ideas of ‘Starks=good, Lannisters=bad”. The story is obviously more complicated and more interesting than that. And if you think that because certain Lannister family members aresupreme @#*$!s that all Lannisters are bad, then you’ve been listening to Catelyn Stark too much.

    Interesting. As a book reader, I always blamed the Freys (and of course Theon) for the Red Wedding. Bolton and the Lannisters were just hopping on board the already moving train.

    Doesn’t excuse their involvement, but I already hated Jaime for trying to kill Bran, Joffrey for murdering Ned, Cersei for creating Joffrey and murdering Robert and Tywin for abusing Tyrion.

  53. Winterlarks
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    MUGger,

    Yes, I thought of I Claudius’ Caligula, by the excellent John Hurt, when the stabbing went down. But in I Claudius, we could understand that this was an act of insanity. The act also wasn’t shown but rather alluded to as people entered the room where the evidence was and the horrible end music and screams end the scene. How much worse then was the shown stabbing of Talisa as a deliberate, public act of vengeance, not insanity?!

    For me, the only show I know that can compare to GoT is I Claudius. But GoT is better.

    “Flayed Frey.” Heh heh. Thanks for your reviews, speculations, comments. I am always eager and enthusiastic about reading your columns, my favorite posts on WiC. I think you coined “Epic 9s.”

  54. SnowFever
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    I am one of the Sullied, but love to read your columns. It takes me back to all the things I was thinking when I was reading the books, and helps me to pick things up in the episodes. So, kudos to you! The RW was just as shattering in the show as it was the books, but stick around Unsullied!

  55. Melwynn Greytyde
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    A sullied woman loves an unsullied man’s prognosticating! Great job, and keep up the good work.

  56. SirSquinty
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    Oz,

    As you know I would never spoil GOT for you, so all I can say is enjoy what’s to come. You’re close on some predictions and way off on others. Enjoy.

    I would, however, push you to keep watching Spartacus. It is a show that grows on you more and more with each of the first four episodes until it hits the ground running and never relents. I would go as far to say that I enjoy Spartacus more than Game of Thrones…yes I said it. They are both different in their own way, but Spartacus has, for me, the most interesting cast of characters, both male and female. I beg you to stick with it further….it becomes something truly wonderful.

  57. gosensgo
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Well, he was truly doomed when he decided to rebel against the throne , well not TRULYYY but- that is quite a bold move. With that said (I am unsullied), I would say that marrying Talisa and breaking an alliance with Lord #$%^&* Frey, was the point in time he added another enemy to his list, one in which his mother warned him was a dangerous man.

  58. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    SirSquinty,

    Thanks Squinty. Now that I have yours and others feedback on it, I will definitely give it a shot. I made two mistakes, and I should know better….
    I watched an episode that was random and in the middle of a season, so I really had no clue what was going on. And…
    It was an episode where there was some kind of party going on, so everytime a scene changed someone different was having sex with someone else.

    Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with sex on TV. But it makes more sense when there is a familiarity with who is who.

    Having said that, there was more sex in that one episode than I remember in an entire season of GoT. And that was really my point.

  59. gosensgo
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    Oz, love your work, don’t evaaaaaa stop
    And we should have speculation posts between the end of season three and beginning of season 4

  60. outdoorcats
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Man, it *was* weird going to work after all that, trying to keep up the appearance of normality and not looking depressed and stuff. I kept examining people’s faces, trying to spot someone else who had clearly just watched ‘The Rains of Castamere’ (inconclusive).

    So Oz, will you be doing a ‘Looking forward to Season 4′ type post after your final newbie recap?

    You absolutely must return next year.

  61. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    SirSquinty:
    Oz,

    As you know I would never spoil GOT for you, so all I can say is enjoy what’s to come. You’re close on some predictions and way off on others. Enjoy.

    I would, however, push you to keep watching Spartacus. It is a show that grows on you more and more with each of the first four episodes until it hits the ground running and never relents. I would go as far to say that I enjoy Spartacus more than Game of Thrones…yes I said it. They are both different in their own way, but Spartacus has, for me, the most interesting cast of characters, both male and female. I beg you to stick with it further….it becomes something truly wonderful.

    I concur. Spartacus is easy to write off, but then again there are many who dismiss GoT as being mere “sexposition”. The gore and sex is never restrained in Spartacus, but if you stick with it you’ll meet some damn fine TV characters, some flawed but great heroes, fantastic villains, nail biting battles… the lot. There are things they do in Spartacus that I wish they would push for in GoT (that is, they’re not shy about showing the field of battle in Spartacus, even if it is just the aftermath of one). Whoever’s pulling the purse strings at Starz knows how to get a lot of bang for very little buck.

    Khal-A-Bunga:
    Maybe Sean Bean will come back!

    http://metro.co.uk/2013/05/13/bafta-tv-awards-sean-bean-wants-to-make-a-return-to-game-of-thrones-3756856/

    My mind immediately went to Bran’s visions of Ned. Please make it happen, HBO/D&D. You can even invent some new visions.

  62. Hounded
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    I heard that Roose once betrayed Judas Iscariot and Brutus.

  63. outdoorcats
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    MUGger,

    Yup, GRRM loves ‘I, Claudius.’

  64. Winterlarks
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    “Flayed Frey.”Heh heh.Thanks for your reviews, speculations, comments.I am always eager and enthusiastic about reading your columns, my favorite posts on WiC.I think you coined “Epic 9s.”

    Sorry, this part was meant for Oz.

  65. FiveTwentyTen
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    Does anyone wonder if Walder Frey, in the quiet moments after the carnage unleashed at the wedding, had a momentary twinge of regret when he looked upon his homely, unwed daughters and thought: “Well, now no one will ever want to marry this lot“?

    Seriously, the next family to get a wedding arrangement with a Frey daughter is going to start wondering who they pissed off and how badly they did so.

  66. Tessa_Leonie
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    I love reading your posts Oz. I enjoy your concise style and your sense of humour. Hope to keep reading your posts in the foreseeable future. I second a looking forward to S4 by the way.

    Now bring on number 30.

  67. MUGger
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Yellow Dog,

    My semi-sullied wife also loves “I Claudius” and I convinced her to start watching the show by telling her that it’s “I Claudius” on steroids, with dragons.

    I call her “semi-sullied” because she actively spoiled herself after Ned’s beheading by devouring the ASoIaF Wiki to find out what happens to the characters. The RW still had the desired effect — she immediately went back to Wiki (and she is now reading the books).

  68. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    Winterlarks,

    You are quite welcome Mr. Larks. I am glad you liked the “Epic 9′s”. Although, my greatest achievement might arguably be “Lancel Sandwich”. A commenter here recently adopted it. My mom would be so proud.

  69. AJC
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Spartacus gets better as it goes along for sure, but it doesn’t come out well in any comparison to ‘Thrones, IMO. I’ll watch anything with Lucy Lawless in, though.

  70. Theon Greyjoy
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    You had only to look at Bolton to know that he had more cruelty in his pinky toe than all the Freys combined.

  71. MUGger
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    Winterlarks,

    I knew who you were talking to — although I wish I had written that line myself ;)

  72. Trilambdas
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    I feel it’s more a case of ‘sins of our father’. By Ned effing up and then declaring himself guilty of treason, he in turn doomed Robb…as George kind of talks about in his interviews – indirectly – saying that Robb, once his father is ‘murdered’ by the Lannisters, the eldest son must take up the mantle of revenge…..

  73. Lyanna_Targaryen
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Robb’s first misstep, IMO, was when he let Theon go back to his father. He should’ve kept him nearby, friends close enemies closer and all that. Then Theon wouldn’t have taken Winterfell, killed pretty much everyone there, etc.

    His next misstep was marrying Talisa. Obviously. Love is for lowborns.

    He should have sent his mother home with some guards instead of keeping her around to free Jaime Lannister. Then Karstark wouldn’t have killed the squires or had to have been beheaded.

    But hindsight is always 20/20, and you know what they say, “If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a merry Christmas.”

  74. Lady Barbrey Dustin
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    Roose has no feelings, you see. He does not love, he does not hate, he does not grieve. This is a game to him, mildly diverting. Some men hunt, some hawk, some tumble dice. Roose plays with men. You and me, these Freys, Lord Manderly, his plump new wife, even his bastard, we are but his playthings

  75. Adria
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    Yellow Dog,

    Confession; as a book reader I always blamed Robb and Cat for the Red Wedding. When you play the Game of Thrones you win or you die. They made stupid decisions and they did not win.

    As for the Lannisters, Jaime, I blamed for Bran’s fall but didn’t hate him for it. Jaime was always too complex of a character for me to just hate outright. Like the Hound, he does some terrible things and some good things. We also learn more about why they do these terrible things and there was an element of sympathy for what had put them in those situations.

    Joffrey was presented as a sociopath, so no real sympathy for him there, but Ned was a dunce who coudn’t play the game to save his life, literally. I facepalmed so much reading his chapters in Book 1, that by the time the beheading came along I was resigned to it.

    Cersei is a vain, arrogant, fool. She kills her husband, a drunk, abusive, adulterer. Sorry, but I never had much sympathy for Robert, especially knowing more of his backstory concerning Lyanna and the start of his rebellion. Yet Catelyn foolishly and arrogantly begins open hostilities with the Royal family by kidnapping Tyrion based on heresay and starts a war. She also forgives her husband for his adultery and focuses her anger, resentment, and hatred on a baby! This was what drove me nuts about her character. If you have a problem with your husband bringing home bastard babies, take it up with your husband, not the baby.

    I guess I’ve just never viewed the Starks as the heroes of the story. I have my favorite characters. Some who I’d like to ‘win’, and some whose stories I just like following. But I’ve never felt the need to align with any particular house. Once you do there’s always some idiot cousin who brings the rest of you down.

  76. Dan Spicer
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    Yes. Bolton is a bad ass. As to when Robb truly became doomed, I think it was once Bolton realized Robb wouldn’t do what needed doing to actually win. He was likely already looking for an exit when he sent his “best hunter” after Jaime. Bolton wants power and wealth. And remember Winterfell? Somebody torched that place, and now it looks like it was probably Bolton who ordered it razed.

  77. Nagga's Kin
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    @ Oz -

    thank you for the long post. Sadly, I seriously doubt anyone is going to hold Walder Frey to account at all. His objective was revenge for one matrimonial sleight too many, beyond that the Twins have long been his personal fiefdom. Roose Bolton needs a powerful ally to cement his coup in the North, where flaying prisoners probably doesn’t win you many. Technically, Tyrion/Sansa just inherited Winterfell and Roose will bend the knee because Tywin will force him to. In practice, though, he will have enormous influence in the politics of the North.

    IMHO, there’s little point in asking if or how the RW might have been avoided. In the end, it happened because Robb was too young, idealistic and egocentric. He flirted with Talisa by accusing her of being a spy but completely failed to appreciate that his bannermens’ loyalty came at a price he wasn’t willing to pay.

    As for ep. 30 and beyond: oooh, so many possibilities!

    What if … Ygritte catches up with Jon and tells him she’s late?
    What if … someone observes Sam and Gilly as they enter the secret passage to the Nightfort?
    What if … being warged into has turned Hodor into an angry mute?
    What if … Shae addresses Sansa as “Lady Lannister” in front of Tyrion?
    What if … all the slaves Dany has freed expect her to govern Yunkai?
    What if … Melisandre decides she needs one of Selise’s floating fetuses?
    What if … Varys observes the Tyrells having a private audience with Joffrey?
    What if … Theon tells “Boy” why he refused to escape and join the Night’s Watch?
    What if … the BwB learn the war is over and the Lannisters won?
    What if … Littlefinger arrives at the Eyrie?
    What if … Asha Greyjoy decides to go look for Theon?

    No shortage of opportunities for plot twists!

  78. Bookworm
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    Bran has to have a bit of a hangover going into Hodor’s head. Hodor! To the last episode for several months. Valar Morghulis! Time to read Book 4!

  79. JP Dayne
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    I thought people had gotten over the whole “the starks are the heroes of westeros” thing already

  80. Adria
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin: He flirted with Talisa by accusing her of being a spy

    Did I miss something? When did Robb acuse Talisa of being a spy?

  81. Tabes
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    Great job OZ, hope you come back next year!!!

  82. I Know Of Fear
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    Robb was doomed once Renly died. Those troops would probably have been enough without troops from Frey or Karstark, and they were lead by the only king willing to see the North secede. And the Tyrells should have been another connection to help them, because Margery’s charity efforts prove they can manage large supply convoys.

    I would also like to blame Edmure for what happened with the Mountain, but I can’t see how that made a difference if I am honest with myself.

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

  83. Ser Bob
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    The red wedding reminded me more of ‘La Reine Margot” than anything in I Claudius. It’s a very bloody and gory French film relating the massacre of the Protestant Huguenots that kicks off in Paris just before the marriage of the Huguenot King of Navarre to Catholic Charles I daughter Margot. The murder of the Huguenot admiral Coligny is particularly brutal and sordid. The marriage was supposed to seal a truce but someone really didn’t want that.

    In real life… Paris city workmen were paid for the collection of 1100 dead bodies that washed up downstream on the Seine. So the number of victims was probably even higher than that.

    Crazy film.

  84. Suzaku
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    The Ozzette Wish: My lovely bride hopes that at least one Stark child will find safety somewhere. Maybe Rickon makes it to the Umbers with no problems along the way. Or maybe Bran finds Jon Snow and they are reunited. Or maybe Arya finds a safe place with the Hound, or even meets up with one of her brothers. Any of these would be a nice ending to a tragic season for the Stark’s.

    Oh, my sweet summer child. Have you learned nothing?

  85. Nagga's Kin
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Adria: Did I miss something? When did Robb acuse Talisa of being a spy?

    Early on in their relationship, when she was sitting out in the open in the middle of his camp writing a note she tucked away as soon as Cat showed up to introduce herself. It was a playful accusation, not a serious one.

  86. Bookworm
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    One point is Ned never chose independence. He rode with and for Robert Baratheon. Robb could have allied with on of the sons earlier.

  87. Nagga's Kin
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    @ Adria: Here’s the clip I was referring to (from 2×06):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7-4CkkcZqE

  88. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    Suzaku,

    Ha ha. Yes she has. She is also an eternal optimist.

    By the way, to the Sullied…. Any danger to an Unsullied in just reading book 1? If it were to give spoilery to subsequent seasons then I would rather wait.

  89. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    Yes there is a danger in that. There are dreams and memories (I’m thinking primarily of Ned’s chapters) and other things that were not shown on GoT that could seriously alter your theories about things.

  90. Shan
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    Adria,

    I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said.

    The great thing about these characters is that they’re all sometimes good and all sometimes bad. I don’t even think (with a handful of exceptions) you can divide them up into good people and bad people, let alone good houses and bad houses.

  91. Davy
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones:
    Suzaku,

    Ha ha.Yes she has. She is also an eternal optimist.

    By the way, to the Sullied…. Any danger to an Unsullied in just reading book 1?If it were to give spoilery to subsequent seasons then I would rather wait.

    You COULD read book 1. There are some differences and some extra notes. But most things are extra imo. The important things have been filmed the books just give some more backgrounds. Although some background might be covered later, I say might there because I honestly don’t know how or what they are planning on doing with it.

  92. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I shall abstain.

  93. Adria
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    Nagga’s Kin,

    Thanks. I felt it might have been from that part of the series. I’m a bit fuzzy on their early conversations.

  94. David Whitmire
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Anyone not boycotting Game of Thrones doesn’t know what’s going to happen in the end, partly because no one knows what is going to happen – hasn’t been written yet. I expect Martin to get a good thrill killing off everyone and crowning Hodor (now THAT would be a twist, eh?).

    This season has been soooo boring and sadistic that I will no longer devote my precious time to the horror soap opera.

  95. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

    Davy,

    Thank you also Davy. It seems the safe thing to do would just be to stay away for now. But I do appreciate your feedback.

  96. Adria
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    David Whitmire,

    M’kay, thanks, bye.

  97. John
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    The “problem” with the books are: You never now which detail might become important later ;-)

  98. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    John,

    That is precisely the reason I wanted to ask you guys before just going out and buying it. Thanks John.

  99. Joshua Taylor
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    David Whitmire,

    Sorry to lose you David. To each their own.

  100. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    outdoorcats:

    So Oz, will you be doing a ‘Looking forward to Season 4′ type post after your final newbie recap?

    You absolutely must return next year.

    How can I say no to such a fine group of people? If Winter and the Gang are cool with it, then absolutely.

  101. Veltigar
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    Oz, I would really recommend to give Spartacus another try. It takes some time to get into (because the first 2 episodes are horrible) but it’s just superawesome. I mean it’s camp and totally over the top but somewhere between the gore and the tits they really manage to strike a cord emotionally. The prequel “Gods of the arena” is even better. The second season is pretty ‘meh’. But boy that third season… one of the best things I have ever seen on television. Totally heartbreaking (although we did see it coming) and again superbadass.

  102. Longclaw
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Somewhere between A and B. I got the impression from the show that the King of the North title was important to his bannermen. It gave them something worth committing to and fighting for. It turned a punishment expedition into a national fight. It was a way to wall themselves off from the poisonous intrigues of the noble houses south of the neck, but it also eliminated any possibility of allying with Stannis and/or Renly, the only men capable of unseating Joffrey Baratheon/Lannister.

    Marrying Talisa, killing Karstark and attending the Red Wedding determined the time, manner and place of his destruction, but he was doomed almost from the beginning.

  103. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    I would actually recommend reading the first ASOIAF books, if only to get a grip on some of the finer details that escaped the first season. If you want to remain a show-only viewer after that then I don’t think anything’s let out of the bag by getting to know the first book.

    Veltigar,

    If GoT has battle scenes like Spartacus series 3′s finale… oofft! And I mean on an emotional level, not spectacle.

  104. gosensgo
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    I know….I wanted to read book 1 and 2 this summer…..

  105. gosensgo
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    David Whitmire,

    Da fakkkkkkkk?!!??!

  106. Veltigar
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones:
    Suzaku,

    Ha ha.Yes she has. She is also an eternal optimist.

    By the way, to the Sullied…. Any danger to an Unsullied in just reading book 1?If it were to give spoilery to subsequent seasons then I would rather wait.

    It’s basicly crack. I don’t think you could restrain yourself from reading the other books. That being said… why not read the first and second book? The series conveyed all of the general story and the only thing that wasn’t in the show has mostly to do with dreams and flashbacks and of course the inner thoughts of the characters.
    Some things are spoilery in the long run if you pick them up. But that’s the beauty of it, most people do not pick them up. There is a popular fan theory for instance (not going to say what the theory relates to) that has been almost generally accepted as canon thanks to hidden clues in the tekst. Still, there are people coming on the boards of Westeros.org that are totally shocked by it (they are now at thread 51 if I’m not mistaken). And every once in a while a thread pops up in which they ask “how did you learn about ….” and most people in there say that they only learned it because they visited the board or because a friend told them about it. Not because they picked it up themselves.
    So I think you are pretty save when you read the first two books.

  107. gosensgo
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    hmmm its hard to assess when not given a consistent answer
    I really wanted to read the first 2 books now I am on the fence

  108. Valyrian
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    OZ DON’T. YOU. DARE. GO.

  109. gosensgo
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian,

    Wheres he going???????
    LOL
    Did I miss something – from what you wrote you’re coming back… but you’ve asked permission to post more? no??

  110. Veltigar
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh:

    Veltigar,

    If GoT has battle scenes like Spartacus series 3′s finale… oofft! And I mean on an emotional level, not spectacle.

    Crixus death really got to me. I loved his character. And Spartacus, Gannicus, Lugo, Naevia, etc. were also of the chain.

  111. Veltigar
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    gosensgo:
    Veltigar,

    hmmm its hard to assess when not given a consistent answer
    I really wanted to read the first 2 books now I am on the fence

    Yeah, that comment wasn’t very good. I can’t edit it anymore so I’ll just repost it with some things added

    Oz of Thrones:
    Suzaku,

    Ha ha.Yes she has. She is also an eternal optimist.

    By the way, to the Sullied…. Any danger to an Unsullied in just reading book 1?If it were to give spoilery to subsequent seasons then I would rather wait.

    It’s basicly crack. I don’t think you could restrain yourself from reading the other books.
    That being said if you can restrain yourself from reading any further (you know if you have an iron will and a strong character)… why not read the first and second book? The show conveyed all of the general story and the only thing that wasn’t in the show has mostly to do with dreams and flashbacks and of course the inner thoughts of the characters.
    Some things are spoilery in the long run if you pick them up. But that’s the beauty of it, most people do not pick them up. There is a popular fan theory for instance (not going to say what the theory relates to) that has been almost generally accepted amongst the longtime posters at Westeros.org (you know people who are really into the books) as canon thanks to hidden clues in the tekst.
    Still, after like 20 years there are new readers coming in on the boards of Westeros.org that are totally shocked by it (they are now at thread 51 if I’m not mistaken => and a lot of reactions are like this “OMG… how could I miss that”).
    And every once in a while a thread pops up in which they ask “how did you learn about ….” and most longtime posters in there say that they only learned it because they visited the board or because a friend told them about it. Not because they picked it up themselves.
    So I think you are pretty save when you read the first two books.

  112. David The Grey
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    Flayed Frey, eh? Thanks for the chuckle, Oz of Thrones. I have to say, I would really NOT like to see flayed Frey. I’d definitely prefer to keep on watching Theon getting flayed on. (If only because it’d be a tad easier on the eyes, ya know?)

    But if we’re talking off camera, then definitely I’m with you! Sounds of flaying of Frey would be just fine. Preferably with some exposition going on too.

    Thanks for your wonderful reviews and hilarious posts. Looking forward to another week of it all!

  113. Veltigar
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    gosensgo:
    Veltigar,

    hmmm its hard to assess when not given a consistent answer
    I really wanted to read the first 2 books now I am on the fence

    Also, since you are not our Unsullied recapper. Why don’t you just give into the dark side and read the entire series?
    Personally, I was already a fan of these books before I even heard about this show (I had read all the books – save from ADWD which wasn’t published yet – and all the then available Dunk & Egg tales before the show came out) and as long as you are not an overly critical, sour person with absolutely no faith in D&D and illusions of grandeur (like “I could do this show so much better” or “If I was in charge I would be perfectly able to stick to the books”) than you will be perfectly able to enjoy the show.

  114. sunspear
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    Uh, I’ve never seen much of Spartacus and don’t know why it’s so popular. The Special effects on that show are soooooo bad, and the fight choreography looks like Quentyn Tarantino going out of his way to annoy physics teachers.

  115. Veltigar
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    sunspear:
    Uh, I’ve never seen much of Spartacus and don’t know why it’s so popular. The Special effects on that show are soooooo bad, and the fight choreography looks like Quentyn Tarantino going out of his way to annoy physics teachers.

    It’s camp, but it’s so over the top that it actually becomes good.

  116. Valyrian
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar: Yeah, that comment wasn’t very good. I can’t edit it anymore so I’ll just repost it with some things added

    It’s basicly crack. I don’t think you could restrain yourself from reading the other books.
    That being said if you can restrain yourself from reading any further (you know if you have an iron will and a strong character)… why not read the first and second book? The show conveyed all of the general story and the only thing that wasn’t in the show has mostly to do with dreams and flashbacks and of course the inner thoughts of the characters.
    Some things are spoilery in the long run if you pick them up. But that’s the beauty of it, most people do not pick them up. There is a popular fan theory for instance (not going to say what the theory relates to) that has been almost generally accepted amongst the longtime posters at Westeros.org (you know people who are really into the books) as canon thanks to hidden clues in the tekst.Still, after like 20 years there are new readers coming in on the boards of Westeros.org that are totally shocked by it (they are now at thread 51 if I’m not mistaken => and a lot of reactions are like this “OMG… how could I miss that”).
    And every once in a while a thread pops up in which they ask “how did you learn about ….” and most longtime posters in there say that they only learned it because they visited the board or because a friend told them about it. Not because they picked it up themselves.
    So I think you are pretty save when you read the first two books.

    It’s true that there are A LOT of things most people don’t pick up, and some of these things waaay back resonate, say, in book 5 (this is a random example), but, like Veltigar said, the greatest danger is you won’t be able to stop. I’m telling you this because I stumbled into this thing accidentally six years ago and started to read only because the title was too damn catchy and it has taken over my entire life, so BEWARE.

  117. Jenny
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    Had exactly the same reaction to Spartacus that you had, did not watch for a few months and later wondered why it was so popular so I decided to watch on and ended in a frenzy 10 hour marathon.

  118. 3eyes
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

    Oz, it took very little time to become dependent on your posts here on WiC, both as a way to get through the weekly wait, and as a way to share the “Unsullied” experience in a (mostly) spoiler free space. May the Old Gods and the New bless your house with good health, prosperity and happiness, and bring you back to us next year, or even better, during the long night between now and S4.
    For ep.10 I’d like to see Jon and Sam re-united at Castle Black, where Sam dons his manly cloak and insists that Gillie & son be given shelter and protection, after which he reveals the power of Dragonglass to whatever is left of the Night’s Watch. With Lord Mormont dead, perhaps Jon will take command(?). Meanwhile, down south, The Spider will be mulling over the latest news from Essos, and the possibilities that present themselves if he can overcome his aversion to the Occult enough to use his Red Wizard as a pawn in the Game. And last, but not least, we finally get the payoff for having sat through Theon’s torture all season long.

  119. Dee
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    Bolton is a badass.

    You know, I don’t remember paying that much attention to him in the books (clearly a re-read is called for, I missed a lot the first time) but the guy they cast for him is a damn fox ;) Fantastic actor and that voice omg

    I feel kind of guilty liking him that much now.

  120. MRR
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    Hey Oz! I enjoy your posts, and I’m glad that you’ve been contributing to the site! That said, I must say the following: the plural of “Jedi” is either Jedi or Jedis, but is definitely not “Jedi’s”. That would be the possessive form of Jedi. Not trying to be a holier-than-thou asshole about it, just thought I’d point it out, as I’m sure I’m not the only one driven to mild irritation by things like this! (Seriously, no disrespect intended!)

  121. PawPaw
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    Long time lurker here, I love everything this site is and have spent many happy hours here perusing, laughing & learning.

    As a Sullied I’ve enjoyed Oz’s (and Ozette’s) contributions and writing style immensely. I’d love to see you next season and hopefully also during the very looooooooong 10 months we are about to face (again).

  122. Impi
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

    I agree that I, Claudius is a fantastic series. You should definitely watch the original. Did I hear that there was a remake on the horizon, is it HBO that is remaking it?

    Great reading your posts as always Ser Oz.

  123. I Know Of Fear
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    Hey Oz, if you were put off by Spartacus then I suggest you try starting with the prequel season. Gods of the Arena has a much stronger start gab any of the other seasons and is fairly self contained.

    The show never spa being gratuitous Ruth the sex and violence, but most of it is much more fitting with context and establishes the atmosphere better than the sexposition scenes with Littlefinger.

  124. I Know Of Fear
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    Hey Oz, if you were put off by Spartacus then I suggest you try starting with the prequel season. Gods of the Arena has a much stronger start gab any of the other seasons and is fairly self contained.

    The show never stops being gratuitous Ruth the sex and violence, but most of it is much more fitting with context and establishes the atmosphere better than the sexposition scenes with Littlefinger.

  125. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    MRR,

    You are not the only one for sure. And no offense taken about it! Thank you for being civil in pointing out the mistake. It mildly irritates me also, and I wrote it. My apologies.

  126. Baramos
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    Oh, Spartacus is extremely gratuitous. In fact I used it as an argument that the Red Wedding was not THAT gratuitious–there are shows more violent and bloody than GoT, and Spartacus is indeed one of them.

    I hope Oz and anyone else reading this give it more chance than the first two episodes, though–that show becomes excellent later on, though indeed is not particularly good for the first half of the first season (the ending of the first season, though…hoo boy).

    I think that despite its gratuity though it does a good job of justifying its bloodiness, much like GoT. The deaths of major characters, at least, are earned.

  127. Baramos
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

    I Know Of Fear,

    Only if he can somehow skip the first minute of the first episode, and the last minute of the final episode, haha. Otherwise he will be spoiled.

  128. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    sunspear:
    Uh, I’ve never seen much of Spartacus and don’t know why it’s so popular.

    Well there you go :D

    Most people who start the show begin by saying, “I turned it off”. Most people who finish the show say, “I turned it off… then on again.” It didn’t find its feet until episode 4 or so of season 1. As most commentators in this very thread have attested, it’s a hidden and under-appreciated gem once you go beyond its ‘skin’. There are some knockout performances in that show. Anyway… less about Spartacus, sorry :)

    Oz, I hope you come back year after year. It’s going to be a hard 10 or so months without any new episodes, and without any newbie recaps to devour. The Sullied reviews tend to list the differences from the show; Unsullied go in pure and unspoiled. I love that. Cheers for the articles.

  129. Moom
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    As a Sullied I would like to hear from other Sullieds – what are you going to do after Sunday night for the NEXT YEAR??? I’ve already read the books….what to do for GoTH withdrawal????? Cannot believe have to wait a year while they film S4…..Suggestions?

  130. Hexonx
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 10:52 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones:
    MRR,

    You are not the only one for sure. And no offense taken about it!Thank you for being civil in pointing out the mistake. It mildly irritates me also, and I wrote it. My apologies.

    While we’re at it I noticed that you called Grandma Tyrell “Queen of Thrones” instead of “Queen of Thorns.” Although maybe that was intentional, lol.

    I would also like to add myself to those that hope to see you back next season. I’ve enjoyed your posts very much (as well as all those commenting on them).

  131. Hexonx
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

    Baramos: Oh, Spartacus is extremely gratuitous. In fact I used it as an argument that the Red Wedding was not THAT gratuitious–there are shows more violent and bloody than GoT, and Spartacus is indeed one of them.

    I had to laugh when one news anchor said the RW was probably the most violent thing ever on TV. Not even close.

  132. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 11:00 pm | Permalink

    Spartacus is not realistic at all though. It’s almost comical in how over the top and slo-mo the violence is. GoT goes for the gut in a realistic way that feels much worse. Spartacus never made me feel queasy, because it always felt fake. I enjoyed Spartacus very much once I learned to put aside my brain a bit when I watched it. It’s not a show that should be compared to GoT in general, they’re just different animals. The styles of the blood and violence shown are completely different.

  133. gosensgo
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 11:14 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    that’s a good point – I have an advantage over Oz.. haha
    I am seriously considering reading the books 1 and 2 soon… and book three will read after season 4…
    I love fantasy and love reading

  134. gosensgo
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

    MRR,

    wow.. lol

  135. Ser Tahu
    Posted June 7, 2013 at 11:55 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger:
    Question for the Unsullied;when was Robb’s cause truly doomed.What do you think was the point of no return?
    a)Robb accepts the title of King in the North
    b)Robb sends Theon to the Iron Islands
    c)Robb marries Talisa
    d)The execution of Rickard Karstark
    e)Other This is probably my favorite debate in the fandom so now that you have a little time to process the RW I’m curious about what you. My answer is a.If the North wasn’t seeking independence Stannis would have wanted them as allies.The battle of Blackwater would’ve been tipped in Stannis’ favor with the addition of the Northern and Riverlands forces.Also, since Stannis had plenty of naval power there would’ve been no reason for Robb to send Theon to the Iron Islands to ask Balon for ships. If any of you Unsullied folk have thoughts on the matter I’d love to know them.

    I would say B. That was the moment he lost his place to retreat to if things turned sour. If the Ironborn had not taken the North, then he could have retreated, set aside his crown and sued for peace or an alliance with Stannis. But with the North taken from him, he was trapped in the Riverlands between a rock and a hard place, with no way of recruiting more people to his army, while the Lannisters had the Westerlands, Crownlands and the Reach to reinforce their army.

  136. Turncloak
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 12:07 am | Permalink

    LIVE PREDICTIONS OMG

    Byron and the other guy
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiu9L7pwhg8&feature=g-user-lsb

  137. Rhys
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 12:11 am | Permalink

    What if Cat had never released Jaime?

    The RW never would have happened.

  138. Restore The Day
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 1:03 am | Permalink

    I’ve read way too much about RW this week to go into that viper nest now, though I appreciated the post and all your posts really.

    But regarding Spartacus, a few quick points just in case:
    - the gratuitous nudity and sex and blood and gore, never goes away
    - but it gets toned down quite a bit after a few episodes, and only comes back (still pretty often) when it makes sense, and most of the time with a purpose.
    - the pilot, i think everybody agrees, was terrible. Maybe i got used to some of the stylish 300-like effects, sex slowmo, etc after a while, but they learned to make them more effective and again, more sparse.
    - the story (and gradually, the acting) gets really really good. You start to realize it’s not just your run-of-the-mill WB show after about 3 episodes, then that it’s actually quite unpredictable after episode 6, and by the time the finale comes up, you really do fucking CARE.
    - Then after that, the season 2 prequel (because of health constraints etc) is quite novel as well and a very nice narrative trick.
    - I’m not done with the show yet, it’s hard to get into, I’m waiting for some GOT withdrawal to kick in first, I guess. But I love the fact that they decided to end it, and end it well.

  139. Joh
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 1:06 am | Permalink

    Rhys,

    How so?

  140. johnnytata
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 1:10 am | Permalink

    please do not quit writing the looking forward posts.

    yours re my favorite posts on he site. i think they hold find you even more to do.

  141. BlackTalon
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 1:15 am | Permalink

    I don’t really follow the discussions in the “completely unspoiled” thread on TWOP, but I did enjoy the video and tweets of all the dovaoghedys upon seeing the Red Wedding.

  142. Aryadne
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 2:10 am | Permalink

    Oz, I love you very much (not THAT way Ozette) but give Spartacus a try and don’t underestimate it. GoT and Spartacus are like my children to me ! I can’t say which one I love more!

    And now what? I thought one of the show’s points was to watch the adventures of the Starks until they meet again!!! I haven’t been paying attention, in deed Mr Torturer.

    And what about Bran’s powers. Can he warg in any living being? Even a dragon!?

    Too many plotlines and possibilities!

    But I’m only really worrying about the 10 months until S4. Maybe this time I’ll read the books.

  143. Lisa Y.
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 4:30 am | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    You’ve done a great job for us Unsullied; and I look forward to seeing your season finale recap, and I hope to read your previews and recaps next season. Thank you, and thank Ozzette of Thrones and the Ozlings for their indulgence.

    As for the season finale, I expect it will open with Arya and the aftermath of the Red Wedding, and close, again, with Danaerys (Mother of Dragons. Liberator of Slaves?).

    Things I look forward to: I caught a glimpse of Pip with Sam in the preview. So I expect Sam and Gilly and her baby finally find shelter.

    What I think will happen: They’ll find shelter just in time as Mance Rayder and his Wildling army attack.

    Things I look forward to: Since seeing her in the season preview, I’ve been expecting to see the return of Yara and the ironborn. It took until the season finale, but she finally makes her appearance at the end.

    What I think will happen: We’ll see her getting back what’s left of Theon, and an explanation of why it happened (By the old gods and the new, I sure hope so!). And I’d really like to know what the ironborn have been up to all this time and what they plan to do next.

    Things I look forward to: Seeing Gendry again.

    What I think will happen: Never seeing Gendry again. :( I really hope I’m wrong about that.

    Things I look forward to: The Hand and Royal Grandpa, Tywin, teaching Joffrey an alternate meaning of the word “puppet”.

    What I think will happen: Joffrey not taking it well. Not taking it well at all.

    Things I look forward to: Jamie and Brienne finally making it to King’s Landing. Unfortunately, that will make Cersei happy. Well, you can’t have everything.

    What I think will happen: I’m hoping the best for Brienne. I hope she’s sent home to Tarth with a big bag of sapphires, or sacks carrying her weight in silver or Lannister gold. She deserves it. But will Tywin see it that way? I hope his “victory” in the North will allow him to be generous towards Brienne, and reward her and send her home. Untouched and unharmed.

    I’ve been wondering about what will happen to Jaime when he returns. Since he lost his hand, he can’t be a part of the King’s guard anymore, can he? So here’s how I think Cersei’s impending marriage can be broken up. Ser Loras jumps up and volunteers to take Jaime’s place and joins the King’s guard. Or maybe he does it in secret, I don’t know. Either way, he joins the guard, making it impossible to marry Cersei. The Queen of Thorns is horrified, but she can’t change it. Plus, it will be easy for him to take a vow of celibacy because as far as the rules go, it only applies to relations between men and women, right? Sweet! Unfortunately, this will also make Cersei happy.

    Things I look forward to: Arya’s story.

    What I think will happen: Where can she go now? I don’t know, but I can’t wait to find out. How odd is it that the Hound has done a better job of protecting the Stark girls than anyone else? I do believe that he will find someplace safe for her. Or at least he’ll try to. Her storyline is the one I’m most interested in now. And poor Sansa! Again! But this time, I hope Sansa just tells them all to f#ck off and say, “What are you gonna do? Kill me? Come at me muthaf#ckers!” Okay, that won’t happen. But I hope that now, she finds her inner bitch and learns how to use it.

    Finally, I’m sad this season is over. It was all at once stunning, and brutal. But it was one hell of a ride.

  144. Yvonne of Tarth
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 4:57 am | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    I think you are completely right. Also, since he accepted the title of King In The North, after capturing Jamie Lannister, he should have gone back home. There is NO way you can be a king of anything if you are not holding that territory and he didn’t (as Lord Karstark said, it made him The King Who Lost The North). After Greyjoy’s betrayal, Winterfell went up in smokes. If you want to be a badass king, you turn around, retake and rebuild Winterfell, which would inevitably lead to revelation of Bolton’s treachery, wipe out the House of Bolton (which IMO is truly the most despicable house in Westeros) and sit there. With two hostages like Jamie Lannister and Theon Greyjoy, the north would be safe. In the end, it boils down to what Talisa said to Robb in season 2 – how can you lead a war if you do not know what your final goal is? He should have sent both Jamie and Theon to the Night’s Watch, let the wildlings through the wall and build an army that would make Tywin shit his pants. And finally, although not quite related to the topic at hand, what kind of king relies on Bolton’s information alone? Didn’t Eddard have his network of informers? I think that is the weakest spot in writing of the Stark plot line.

  145. Jamie Newman
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 5:59 am | Permalink

    As a book reader, I have very much enjoyed your predictions and I’m looking forward to reading more next season! :)

  146. Vladimir Bolton
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 6:31 am | Permalink

    (Unsullied here) (non-native speaker, sorry for any mistakes)

    I truly hope that the final episode won’t be a huge chaotic mess, where they rush through all the storylines to sort of bring every story to an exciting / “cliffhanger”-like ending. But unfortunately that’s exactly what I think will happen: we’ll get a glimpse of every story but no truly profound scenes, simply because (unlike in episodes 08 and 09) they won’t have the time to dwell on any particular scene any longer than necessary.

    Not having seen the preview, here’s what I expect to happen in episode 10 in each storyline:

    Stannis: Well first of all I’d like to see if the burning of the leeches yielded any results. Well in a certain way it already did, since the first of his enemies is dead. I guess Melisandre will see this as a proof of the power of the Lord of Light, and in general it’s going to be a good season finale for Stannis, “ending on a high note” with him regaining power through Melisandre. I guess he will be in a very favorable position going into season 4.

    King’s Landing: I’d love to see Jamie crash the wedding of Cersei and Loras, but honestly I don’t think this is what will happen. But I think we’ll see Jamie reunited with his family in King’s Landing. Tywin right now obviously is the MAN, whereas Joffrey and Tyrion both seem very weak at this point in time, due to different reasons. I really don’t know what to expect in King’s Landing right now.

    Theon The identity of his torturer will finally be revealed, and then some… There must be a bigger surprise coming up. I can feel it.

    Daenerys: Now that she’s conquered an entire city (again), she’s even more powerful. And she’s got an army. And she’s got ever-more powerful dragons. And and and… Still, I don’t think she’s gonna find a way to sail to Westeros just yet. On the other hand, what else could she possibly do at this point? I guess we’re in for a MAJOR surprise here, a huge setback that will shock us. Things have been going WAY too smoothly for her for a long time now.

    Arya Arya… Somehow I think the Hound’s now gonna take her back to King’s Landing, simply because it’s the next best place where he could get a good amount of money for her; this will be a bitter-sweet experience for her: on the one hand, she’s now where her sister is being kept and finally gets to reunite with her, but on the other hand she’s back with the Lannisters.

    Bran Bran had his big moment last season, I don’t think there will be any major developments in his storyline. However, there’s still the possiblity of a reunion with Jon at Castle Black, which leads me too…

    Jon Jon’s now heading to the Wall to warn them of the imminent wildling attack, but it might be too late. I guess the wildlings will eventually manage to “light the biggest fire the North has ever seen” and whatever follows will be the major cliffhanger for this season.

  147. loco73
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 6:59 am | Permalink

    Pheww! Thanks Winter!

  148. GeekFurious
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    We give those leeches way too much credit. People planned out the Red Wedding massacre.

  149. csasil
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    JP Johnson,

    Me too!

  150. BathoryBane
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    Troy:
    Hope to see you next season.As one of the Sullied, I enjoyed all of your contributions to the discussion.It’s always fun to see someone discover this world and these characters for the first time.

    Agreed. As a book reader, I prefer reading your recaps and speculations and comments thereafter – they are refreshing and free of cynicism, which is much appreciated. Thanks for your point of view.

  151. ender985
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    I am also a book reader, and your posts are my 2nd reason as to why I come to this site every week (1st being Fab’s tweet recap).

    I hope you can continue to do them, it is quite refreshing to read the thoughts and feelings of an unsullied!

  152. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    Totally forgot to mention the fate of Edmure and Blackfish. Hope the show doesn’t leave their part of the RW open-ended.

    Thanks for the reminders good peeps!

  153. RazorCatchPrey
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    I concur. I am afraid to discuss the show with my unsullied family for fear that I will accidentally spoil something for them, so I really enjoy reading these recaps and Looking Forward posts. Please come back and keep it up.

    Unless of course you are now overcome by the need to read ahead, in which case welcome to the ranks of the sullied and I hope WiC.net can find someone worthy to fill your shoes.

    Zack:
    These posts are among the most fun each week. Thanks for the consistent enjoyment.

    Signed, a Sullied

  154. gosensgo
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    what about them white walkers????? I miss them – please go kill Tywin and Joffrey please – and Walder Frey while youre at it. oh and Roose Bolton.

  155. outdoorcats
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    Ser Bob,

    Oh yeah, ‘La Rheine Margot’ is a great film. Recommended to those who enjoy the ‘historical’ medieval aspect to this fantasy show and want to see more like it.

  156. NipplesonaBreastplat
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    BathoryBane: Agreed. As a book reader, I prefer reading your recaps and speculations and comments thereafter – they are refreshing and free of cynicism, which is much appreciated. Thanks for your point of view.

    Agree with Troy, BathoryBane and a host of others….I’d rather read the (Oz) Unsullied recaps instead of the Sullied and the book purists (who are solely annoying and offer nothing else to the mix). You rock, Oz. Hopefully, you will be able to entertain us all throughout the break and not just for one more week.

    As a book reader, I know where events are headed, but can honestly say that each week brings new surprises and enjoyment as a watcher. Your speculations are wonderfully insightful and sometimes incredibly wrong, but they are always filled with humor and virgin (did I say that?) ideas. I compare you with myself at any particular time while reading for the first time and you’re worlds ahead of me on the speculation front. It wasn’t until my second read that everything started to sink in. I DON’T think you should read book one – I agree that you won’t be able to stop there.

    Enjoy the show Sunday night! I’ll look forward to your reactions next week.

  157. Udi
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh,

    I have watched less than that (barely 1 episode) and it was enough. To each his own, and “yes”, probably passing judgement after only 1 episode is not fair. But I felt that this was a show where the acting is sub-par, the them totally cliche’ and the special effects so cheezy… It’s funny – GoT is a fantasy series whereas Spartacus is based on some real historical events, and yet GoT feels so much more realistic and believable. To summarize: To me – Spartacus felt like fast food where GoT is a superb 77-course dinner with fine wine. But again, to each his own.

  158. Stannis Baratheon
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    It’s Queen of Thorns, not Queen of Thrones
    Grammar Nazi at your service dear Oz

  159. Hounded
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    David Whitmire,

    And not a soul cared

  160. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    Udi:
    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh,

    I have watched less than that (barely 1 episode) and it was enough. To each his own, and “yes”, probably passing judgement after only 1 episode is not fair. But I felt that this was a show where the acting is sub-par, the them totally cliche’ and the special effects so cheezy… It’s funny – GoT is a fantasy series whereas Spartacus is based on some real historical events, and yet GoT feels so much more realistic and believable. To summarize: To me – Spartacus felt like fast food where GoT is a superb 77-course dinner with fine wine. But again, to each his own.

    Everything improves dramatically. The acting, effects, everything. But if you don’t wish to continue it then you can’t be faulted. Even die-hard fans dislike the first episode. But look at the AV Clubs review for the first ever episode. Now peek at their review for the final episode.

    First episode summary: “Spartacus: Blood and Sand feels like it was committee designed by a large group of 14-year-old boys … It’s not an outright failure, but it has enough messy parts that I can’t really recommend it either.”

    Finale: “Better than we could have hoped, more emotional than we could have predicted, and more representative of what’s good about television than almost all of its contemporary peers … it’s one that will echo for decades to come as viewers come to discover this show they simply can’t believe no one told them about.

    GoT is budgeted to heaven, so Spartacus comes across as tawdy in comparison, of course (I think most shows do, to be honest. GoT is so sumptuous). But GoT really does spoil us. Spartacus does improve, it’s stellar. It’s up to you if you’re willing to invest and discover the show.

  161. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    Stannis Baratheon,

    I know True King. It was a silly play on words since I think Westeros would be a better place if she was running the show.

  162. Currer Bell
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    There is a pepper which resembles a small colorful (red or yellow) bell pepper. It is called a habanero and is lava hot. One of life’s small sadistic pleasures, as a Texan, is watching an innocent northerner bite down on one for the first time.

    As a long-ago Sulllied, reading your reviews, Oz, has been like watching a newbie chow down on habaneros for the first time. Please come back next year.

  163. Listen 2 Ghost!
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

    This book reader is hopeful that this post makes a return in season 4. Though I could do without the “A man…” intros. Everything else is quite good though.

  164. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    A man will take note! Actually, it’s just my little tip of the hat to Jagen. Would love to see him again soon. However, I will listen 2 ghost!

  165. Listen 2 Ghost!
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    Don’t get me wrong. I’m all for the Jagen love, and I did find the bit amusing at first but IMO it got old after a while. I just started to skip over that part in order to get to the meat of your piece, which again, was really entertaining and engaging.

  166. shyone274
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

    JP Johnson,

    I second this idea! Oz of Thrones you should definitely predict next season.

  167. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 8, 2013 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

    Listen 2 Ghost!,

    No prob, the ghost 2 which I listen. I definitely don’t want to overuse certain aspects to the point of skipping by readers. I always appreciate feedback, so thank you!

  168. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted June 9, 2013 at 4:10 am | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones:
    A man will take note!Actually, it’s just my little tip of the hat to Jagen. Would love to see him again soon. However, I will listen 2 ghost!

    A man should not take a direwolf’s opinion regarding his speaking style, as the Braavosi amongst your readers might be distraught if Oz of Thrones totally abandoned it. Ghose has no right to discuss grammar. A woman has been pleased to read the Braavosi affect on occasion throughout your lovely posts. Lovely man. Do come back next episode, and next season! Your writing is like lemon sorbet between courses at a long Northern feast!

  169. Ed
    Posted June 9, 2013 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    Well said. I think Spartacus is great. It’s not Game of Thrones great, but it doesn’t have to be. They can both be great in their own way, it’s not an either/or proposition. I will definitely be getting the BluRay Boxed Set of all a the Sparty seasons when it comes out.

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh:
    An episode and a half of Spartacus? Definitely not enough to pass judgment. The show took a few episodes to find its feet in the first season but it’s deceptively touching, with some fantastic characters and plots. It manages to temper the nudity later, but if you don’t like violence then you’ll have a hard time. It depicts a brutal time period. It also has a series finale to die for. You may find it hard to go back into the show if you’ve already written it off, but I don’t think it’s something you’d regret.

    Looking forward to your recap of the final episode. Always love the newbie recaps.

  170. Chris
    Posted June 9, 2013 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    You’ve gotten this far and you haven’t read Book 1?
    Yes! Read the books now.
    Actually, if you’re a total newbie and you’ve gotten this far in the series, you should now read books 1 AND 2. That’ll get you through the long, painful off-months. They’ll also broaden your understanding of the whole series in a way that no amount of exposition, or sexposition, could.
    Do NOT read Book 3 unless you want to spoilerize Season 4 for yourself.
    Unless…
    It’s possible…
    If you read only the first 4 or 5 chapters of A Storm of Swords and then STOP…
    …until after Season 4
    I don’t know if I’d have that kind of will power though.

  171. Mrs. H'ghar
    Posted June 9, 2013 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    FiveTwentyTen,

    Oooooh yeaaaaaaaah. Those daughters will be the next generation of Silent Sisters no doubt.

  172. 3eyes
    Posted June 9, 2013 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. H’ghar,

    Silent Sisters FTW! A woman has been missed.

  173. Dany's 1-Eyed Dragon
    Posted June 9, 2013 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    “Sorry I’m late… I’ve been riding like mad from north of the Wall and just made it to the Twins. Did I miss the wedding?”
    - BenJen Stark

    Well, in view of my unsullied predictions, I guess I am not heading to Vegas with my luck.

  174. Dany's 1-Eyed Dragon
    Posted June 9, 2013 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    Was curious about those two as well…

    Blackfish’s exit seemed a bit suspicious, but I can’t imagine he had any part in the RW plot. I doubt Edmure did either, but I am wondering if maybe he was a pawn somehow. He let Sir Gregor escape when he took over that Windmill fortress that Robb had chastised him about. Maybe some deal was made between him and Gregor at Tywin’s bequest. Perhaps something like “if you marry a Frey girl, Tywin Lannister will pay your weight in gold (or give you Harrenhall) as a wedding present. If a Tully marries a Frey you might be able to stop the war and save the realm, and he’ll let the Starks rule the north again. But you can’t tell anyone or the deals off.” Sounds a bit farfetched, but I wonder if there could be some half truth that would allow Edmure to go along with the wedding plans without bringing suspicion to the impending massacre.

  175. Dany's 1-Eyed Dragon
    Posted June 9, 2013 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    I know you sullied on this post are not supposed to post any spoilers even if heavily veiled (and it is much appreciated that the vast majority of you do not), but I’ll admit I was laughing out loud during the “Hodor” barrage, as I remembered the “Over/Under times Hodor will be said” poll post from last week (presumably from a book reader in the know).

    I was thinking last week when I saw that post – Vegas odds are probably 0.75 Hodors… he only averages one per episode and he might not be featured in the last two episodes. Well done whoever that was… heavily-veiled, non-plot revealing spoilery at its best!

  176. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 9, 2013 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    Dany’s 1-Eyed Dragon,

    As far fetched as it may be, I don’t trust anyone. But I sincerely hope that Edmure and Blackfish knew nothing of the plot. Assuming they are still alive, I can’t imagine Bolton or Frey just letting them return home now.

    Hopefully we will find out shortly. I don’t want this story left unanswered going into the off season.

  177. Dany's 1-Eyed Dragon
    Posted June 9, 2013 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    FiveTwentyTen: Adria, “Find the Stark” a new, lively Westerosi game that became famous among the Freys of the Riverlands and the Boltons of the North–once the Starks became as scarce as a smile on Lord Tywin’s face.

    By the way – technically, isn’t Bran now King of the North by bloodline succession? I don’t know how the northern lords officially disavow their oaths, but there seemed to be a lot of lords that bowed the knee to Robb during his coronation scene. Only the Boltons and Karstarks (and Theon) have acted against their oaths.

    That said, if Robb needed the Frey army to take a basically unoccupied castle in Casterly Rock, who exactly is left in the north loyal to the Starks such that “the northerners will never forget,” as stated by Tyrion in the Season 30 preview? (Asking a question to which I don’t want to know the answer as I’m sure it will play out in the seasons to come.)


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