Recap round-up: “Mhysa”
By Ours is the Fury on in Recap.

Here are some notable recaps and reviews of the season three finale of Game of Thrones:

Book Readers
Sean T. Collins – Rolling Stone
Myles McNutt – Cultural Learnings
James Hibberd – Entertainment Weekly
Alyssa Rosenberg – ThinkProgress
Scott Meslow – The Week
Todd VanDerWerff – A.V. Club
Sarah Hughes – The Guardian
James Poniewozik – Time
Charlie Jane Anders – io9
Elio Garcia – Westeros.org
Sandrine Sahakians & Axechucker- TVEquals

New Viewers
Alan Sepinwall – HitFix
Andy Greenwald – Grantland
David Sims – A.V. Club
Brian Juergens – The Backlot
Jordan Yerman – Vancouver Observer


101 Comments

  1. NewJeffCT
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    hodor

  2. Ace
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    It’s interesting that new viewers like Greenwald and Sepinwall loved this episode. So many of the complaints yesterday were by book readers who were unhappy that certain events didn’t happen. But as these reviews show, the finale did a great job of focusing on some of the other players and setting up where the story could go. Great shows don’t need dramatic cliffhangers if they can inspire you to care about their characters.

  3. ATBoz
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    Greenwald’s reviews have been excellent all season, by mid-season I was looking forward to them farvmore than Sepinwall’s, who I feel has been mailing in his GoT recaps for a while now.

  4. zaprowsdower
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    No Charlie Jane Anders for the list this week? I though her recap was lovely as always.

  5. Zack
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    Sepinwall gets it :)

  6. Lex
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    To recap my comments from earlier threads:

    I thought the finale was excellent. So did all the friends who watched it with me. So many good scenes, even if it lacked a shocking ending. My favourite stuff may have been Davos/Gendry (one of the best changes they’ve made), followed by Arya.

    I’ll also say that, at the moment, I think Season 3 was my favourite so far. Such a good season, and just a reminder of what an amazing book A Storm of Swords is. It’s mind boggling to think that all the crazy events of this season only really comprise the first half of the book!

    And now the long wait begins…

  7. Lex
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    Ace:
    It’s interesting that new viewers like Greenwald and Sepinwall loved this episode. So many of the complaints yesterday were by book readers who were unhappy that certain events didn’t happen.

    I’m officially done with the book-reader reviews/threads. What a sad, miserable, unimaginative, pedantic bunch. I will be avoiding those threads next year.

  8. Arbot
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    Got a good chuckle out of this line from Sepinwall:

    and let’s ignore Dany for a moment, since she could spend quite a long time practicing her divinity over in Essos

    If only he knew…

  9. House Snow
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    I think one thing that gets overlooked is that as slow as it was they actually explained/cleared up alot of stuff which is probably pretty satisfying for new viewers that really isn’t going to be for someone who already knows what is going on. Just b/c we all knew who ramsey was doesn’t mean the at large public did and it shows in some of the reviews.

  10. Lex
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    House Snow:
    Just b/c we all knew who ramsey was doesn’t mean the at large public did and it shows in some of the reviews.

    Many non-readers I talked to were still clueless about Ramsay’s identity, so I think last night’s reveal was very cool. The connection/revelation of Ramsay being Roose’s son, and the emergence of House Bolton as a new major player/villain, was well done IMO.

  11. Ace
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    Ace:
    It’s interesting that new viewers like Greenwald, Sepinwall, and Sims loved this episode. So many of the complaints yesterday were by book readers who were unhappy that certain events didn’t happen. But as these reviews show, the finale did a great job of focusing on some of the other players and setting up where the story could go. Great shows don’t need dramatic cliffhangers if they can inspire you to care about their characters.

  12. Isabelle
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    Aww, I’m going to miss these posts! Hibberd, Greenwald and Elio! (ETA: and Backlot!) What will I do without my faithful Monday tea break companions?

    One more from Wired:

    http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/06/game-of-thrones-recap-finale-3/

    They also did a pretty good comparison of the book and the show for Season Three. It included this little gem about the RW:

    But the addition of Talisa to the Red Wedding was what really kicked it up to a whole other level of tragic, ending not only the lives of Robb and Catelyn, the Northern rebellion and their chance at revenge, but also the most heartfelt love story on the show. In fairy tale terms, it’s like if Prince Charming and Cinderella finally made it to the ball, only to suddenly get mowed down by a bunch of gangsters with uzis who subsequently cut off her head, replaced it with a pumpkin, and paraded it around the city as a hilaaaarious joke, while turning her little mice friends into finger-puppets and making them pretend to talk to her corpse.

    http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/06/game-of-thrones-season-3-book-show/

  13. Ace
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    Isabelle:
    Aww, I’m going to miss these posts! Hibberd, Greenwald and Elio! What will I do without my faithful Monday tea break companions?

    One more from Wired:

    http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/06/game-of-thrones-recap-finale-3/

    They also did a pretty good comparison of the book and the show for Season Three. It included this little gem about the RW:

    http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/06/game-of-thrones-season-3-book-show/

    Interesting stuff.

  14. Yago
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Just waiting for What the flick now.

  15. sunspear
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Judging by the newbie, reviews, most people are just letting their disappointment with the lack of Cat’s resurrection color their perception of the episode. I thought all of the scenes and dialogue were great. The only thing I was disappointed in was the back half of the Dragonstone plot, and that only because it screwed up some future book events.

  16. Isabelle
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    Ace,

    The recaps from Wired have been great this year. A little lengthy, but they always have good things to say. And their site is such fun to browse…you might get addicted…warning you now…

  17. Barista Selmy
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    I remember seeing some Season 3 production photos of Tywin fishing, in a conversation with Pycelle. I don’t remember seeing that scene this season, so perhaps it was cut?

    Link to photos:
    http://wicnet.tumblr.com/post/33253142910

  18. Mister Stark
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    I think I’ve figured out the problem with so many people watching the show who have not read the books is.
    They are impatient. They want episodic TV. They want it all wrapped up at the end of each episode.
    I watched Larry Williams last review and it struck me. He went on and on about the Theon storyline. That he didn’t understand what it was about and why everyone was looking forward to Bolton’s appearance.
    It comes down to no patience, no build up wanted.
    The episode was good. Some of the thins revealed in the episode could only be done AFTER the Red Wedding.
    I think if you sat down and watched season three together and let it all flow into one another then no one would have a problem with this episode.

  19. Zack
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    I think I agree. I’m not going to be the sort that tells people not to share their negative opinion. I just don’t really feel the need to have my highs brought down reading them.

  20. Khal-A-Bunga
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Lex:
    To recap my comments from earlier threads:

    I thought the finale was excellent. So did all the friends who watched it with me. So many good scenes, even if it lacked a shocking ending. My favourite stuff may have been Davos/Gendry (one of the best changes they’ve made), followed by Arya.

    I’ll also say that, at the moment, I think Season 3 was my favourite so far. Such a good season, and just a reminder of what an amazing book A Storm of Swords is. It’s mind boggling to think that all the crazy events of this season only really comprise the first half of the book!

    And now the long wait begins…

    Yeah, my friends (all non-readers) thought it was great, and my family thought the same. I don’t know how they feel about it as a season finale, as I didn’t ask, but as an episode of the show, it was well received among my circle of friends.

    After the Red Wedding (so weird just typing it out without spoiler tags), I think any episode that didn’t have another of the major moments from the third book was going to disappoint some readers (and some non-readers, as well), but I think it’ll play much better for some of them in retrospect. Looking forward to doing a re-watch of the season some time over a lazy weekend.

  21. Macharius
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    What character was Hibberd referring to? The one that didn’t get killed but many readers apparently wanted to see killed?

  22. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    Same here. I already spent less time in these threads this year and it was a much more pleasant experience. I dived head first into the recap thread last night/this morning and it reinforced my plan to skip them next year. I’m satisfied with posting in threads like this and a few others that aren’t based on instant reactions to the show.

  23. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    Macharius,

    Joffrey, of course, or Balon.

  24. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    I’m glad to see most non-readers liked the episode. My intitial reaction was it was a really good episode that perfectly set up S4. Like most, I was not a fan of the final scene, and the reaction of both readers and newbies seem to agree. But one scene does not ruin the episode.

  25. Falcon
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

    Agree about how Larry is now. Character interactions and development doesn’t matter at all if there’s no serious plot progression to go with it. He really can’t just embrace enjoying these characters being these characters, because he’s too set in his ways of the good guys need to win!

    Waiting for Dino and Bryan’s review as well as What the Flick! Best reviews on the internet!

  26. zaprowsdower
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

    There are more than just the book purist camps and the show can do no wrong camps, guys. People can be surprised (or disappointed or whatever) that certain things didn’t happen but still have enjoyed the episode. I think that book readers are often at a disadvantage because the show and the books are two different entities but sometimes it’s hard to shut off the book brain. I honestly thought this season was setting up for a Stoneheart reveal and that didn’t happen. I initially said that I was disappointed but I wasn’t. Just surprised in the end. If I hadn’t read the books, I obviously wouldn’t have thought it was going where it didn’t go but I doubt my overall opinion would have changed much. I still liked the episode but it didn’t really feel like a finale to me.

    That being said, I liked what Sean T Collins had to say about the Dany scene. Can’t wait to hear the Grantland and GoO podcasts chat about the ep.

  27. Macharius
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Macharius,

    Joffrey, of course, or Balon.

    Hm yeah. But Hibberd made it sound like it would have been emotionally hard for the audience to watch. And it certainly wouldn’t in either case.

  28. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    zaprowsdower: There are more than just the book purist camps and the show can do no wrong camps, guys.

    ^
    this
    I dislike how people are labeled with one title or the other, just because people get upset about criticisms (or lack of them). It’s not a particularly mature way of dealing with differing opinions.
    I thought Collins nailed it when he described the Dany finale, as well. I loved most of the episode, but that scene made me uncomfortable and he articulated perfectly why. It’s a shame that people are being a bit rude about it in the comments on his piece. Critics are supposed to analyze the material, so when people tell a critic they’re overthinking something or to just “chill out” about it, it seems like the reader is missing the point of reviews and critiques.

  29. lonas
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    So Like Alan said, “goodbye Finchy”. Should we expect a curtain call for Dagmar?

    I love the books, I love the series, I love winter is coming.
    Thank you

  30. Skreech
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    too true. If you criticize the show you’re obviously just a “troll” and if you like the show you’re “up D & D’s ass” haha. C’mon guys, hasn’t GRRM taught us that nothing is black or white?

  31. The Rabbit
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Lex,

    Same here. I already spent less time in these threads this year and it was a much more pleasant experience. I dived head first into the recap thread last night/this morning and it reinforced my plan to skip them next year. I’m satisfied with posting in threads like this and a few others that aren’t based on instant reactions to the show.

    Another one here. Agreed on everything you said. I am really happy now that my pre-season decision to avoid some “reviews” worked well.

    I did not even comment too much during this season. All I can say now, when season ended: it was the best season so far!

  32. Sareeta
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    As a book reader, I can see that each season of Game of Thrones has gotten progressively better than the previous. GOT is currently one of my favorite TV series (right alongside Breaking Bad). I really do feel like the best way to experience the show is to read the books first and then sit back and enjoy all your favorite moments of the books play out vividly on screen.

    Personally, I have no huge gripes about season 3. Actually, my only gripe is that I wish we could have spent more time with some characters (Jaime/Brienne, Bran, Robb, Stannis/Davos/Melisandre, Jon and the Wildlings). Thinking about it from the perspective of a non-reader, I wonder how lost they were with all the new characters and the relatively short screen time devoted to each. Knowing how the books expand the number of characters, I am almost hoping to see a drastic reduction (i.e., non-introduction) of a good number of them, because there’s absolutely no way to maintain the level they have now AND introduce a whole bunch more.

    Anyway, I thought the finale was good at wrapping up my favorite characters’ stories and I’m very much pumped for season 4. Congrats to everyone involved and kudos to D & D more making a fantastic season of TV. Let the rewatch begin!

  33. Mukkuz
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    At first I had a really hard time getting into this season, but ultimately, the wait was worth it. What a magnificent strong ending. Please, keep it up! This site as well!
    After the red wedding, this last episode felt like a warm bath, with some great new storylines unfolding.

    By the way, I was so upset with ep.9, that I just had to do my own version of anything in GoT music . The Reigns of Castamere seemed only fitting, and I had a T-shirt to match the occasion. Hope you guys like it: Here is my version

  34. Stannis
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    I’m still really shocked at how powerful the Red Wedding was. I discovered I couldn’t handle seeing it in the recap, so I muted it and shut my eyes. That fucking disgraceful image of the wretched monster they Freys made out of Robb’s and Grey Wind’s corpses literally stopped me sleeping. Apart from that though the episode wasn’t that great.

  35. barak
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    OT, but here’s a pretty awesome ska version of the main theme:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ei_36wQjaQ

    (The video is boring, but one of the guys looks similar to Richard Madden, without his curly locks.)

  36. Yago
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    Like the previous finales, this was just set-up for the next season. Don’t get the complaints.

  37. Butterbumps
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    Stannis,

    Hey, aren’t you supposed to march towards the Wall now or something? What are you doing wasting your time here??

  38. Timmen
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    Barista Selmy,

    How do we know thats not just charles dance fishing on a break or something lol

  39. Downesdarrion
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    Macharius: Hm yeah. But Hibberd made it sound like it would have been emotionally hard for the audience to watch. And it certainly wouldn’t in either case.

    Could be Ygritte…

  40. NewJeffCT
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

    sunspear:
    Judging by the newbie, reviews, most people are just letting their disappointment with the lack of Cat’s resurrection color their perception of the episode. I thought all of the scenes and dialogue were great. The only thing I was disappointed in was the back half of the Dragonstone plot, and that only because it screwed up some future book events.

    I don’t have any problem with Lady Stoneheart not being in the show. I fully expected her appearance to be the “Holy $#!t!!” finale to Season 4, sort of like how it ended A Storm of Swords.

    The only thing I had problems with was Arya taking vengeance on the Frey dude. It won’t have the same feel as the book if she ever encounters the guys from Gregor Clegane’s band. We already lost The Tickler, so we can’t get her screaming, “Is there gold in the village??”

  41. hare
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

    Loved Greenwald’s review as usual. He does a great job of seeing the forest (the larger thematic picture) as well as the minutiae of the trees. I agree that for me what gives the show (and books) the promise of greatness is that it could be that ultimately it’s not about the great houses and their cycles of revenge, but the dispossessed, broken, and forgotten and how their acts of free will and frightened courage might lead to a more fundamental transformation than who sits the iron throne and what banner flies over it.

    He does a great job of pointing out how a Tywin for example might play the game by its current rules remarkably effectively, but he doesn’t change or challenge its fundamental nature in any way, and lack of vision basically means you get left behind when other historical pressures and the social change that invariably follows decide to march forward.

  42. Adam
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    Sepinwall’s review was impressive and very prescient. For someone who’s new to the series and hasn’t read ahead, he has a remarkable sense of who’s becoming important, and where the series is going from here.

  43. PrinceTheon
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    Does anyone else think that could have been Euron at the end of Yara’s walk past her men?

  44. Virtus
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    PrinceTheon:
    Does anyone else think that could have been Euron at the end of Yara’s walk past her men?

    Why would they do that with an extra? They did use an extra for Jaqen in the last episode of S1, but they didn’t show his face.

  45. Jeffrey
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

    I think this episode was basically trying to ease fans back from a very emotional 9th episode. Why have another cliffhanger? Why have another sad death? This season has been marred by a boatload of depressing events, I think its nice to end the season with Khaleesi being mobbed like she was Britney Spears.

    Look at her arc from season 1 to now. This is probably the highest point in her life. She is freeing slaves, have an army and no “husband” to tell her what to do. So it was nice to have it end right there

  46. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    Yago:
    Like the previous finales, this was just set-up for the next season. Don’t get the complaints.

    This.

  47. Deekan
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

    I think this season will probably end up being the most rewatchable for me… but I never go a month without watching some thrones.. so…

  48. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    The only difference between this finale and the previous two was the ending. If you took away the final scenes from each of the finales I would say that the third season’s finale was the strongest, definately stronger than ‘Valar Morghulis’.

  49. Darquemode
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    My thoughts EXACTLY.
    However, I will admit that on second and third viewing the final scene has grown on me. I still do not like the way the scene played out (Especially the “Mysha” chants), but it did its job showing what needed to be shown and that last aerial shot was beautiful and powerful.

  50. Darquemode
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    PrinceTheon,

    I did wonder if that was Euron! XD
    I decided it most likely was NOT, but the thought crossed my mind as soon as I saw him.

  51. KingWolf111
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

    Didn’t know where else to put this but I found an access Hollywood interview with Iwan Rheon on Ramsay.

    http://www.accesshollywood.com/game-of-thrones-season-3-iwan-rheon-talks-finally-revealing-the-name-of-the-boy-torturing-theon-greyjoy_article_80540

  52. Shan
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

    Just testing to see if I can comment.

  53. Richard
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

    Here here. It’s just too bad this site doesn’t get their Newbie Recap up at the same time as the Recap, else I would avoid it altogether like the Chat. I need to discuss and read others thoughts right after the episode is over! :)

    Lex: I’m officially done with the book-reader reviews/threads. What a sad, miserable, unimaginative, pedantic bunch. I will be avoiding those threads next year.

  54. word
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

    Here’s the one from The Atlantic. Ends with a discussion of WHAT GAME OF THRONES MEANS, which is, you know, light and fun: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/06/-i-game-of-thrones-i-hectic-morally-complex-crowdsurfing-season-finale/276696/

  55. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    Just watched it. Enjoyed it but the simplistic portrayal of Stannis and the lack of LS / an epic ending, soured the overall taste.

    As an episode I would give it 8/10. As a finale: 7/10.

  56. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted June 10, 2013 at 10:45 pm | Permalink
  57. Anne
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 12:13 am | Permalink

    From Alan Sepinwall’s review:

    Bran, Jon Snow, Tyrion, Sam and Dany (and Arya, for that matter, even if she’s in less of a fulcrum position at the moment) all seemed like appendages at best to the power players when they were first introduced, but the likes of Ned, Robb (and Rob), Commander Mormont, Drogo and Viserys are all dead and gone. While some classical leader figures remain, it appears that the true war is going to hinge on the sideshow performers moving into the center ring.

    DING DING DING!

    He gets it.

  58. Bill Volk
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 2:03 am | Permalink

    Are we going to get a transcription/translation of the lyrics in the final song? I’m a little psyched that the Dany theme has words to go with it now.

  59. Red Hound
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 3:09 am | Permalink

    sunspear:
    Judging by the newbie, reviews, most people are just letting their disappointment with the lack of Cat’s resurrection color their perception of the episode. I thought all of the scenes and dialogue were great. The only thing I was disappointed in was the back half of the Dragonstone plot, and that only because it screwed up some future book events.

    I’m guilty of that. But I also feel that some other things should have ended on a stronger note, as it’s a finale.

  60. Red Hound
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 3:51 am | Permalink

    Lex: I’m officially done with the book-reader reviews/threads. What a sad, miserable, unimaginative, pedantic bunch. I will be avoiding those threads next year.

    And with your attitude I’m quite sure that everybody in those entries will welcome such decision.

    Sad and miserable for not enjoying a TV show episode. Hmm.

    EDIT : I’ll add something about which I have zero evidence, it’s just a feeling, but I think that Daenerys is a lot more popular among show watchers than among book readers. This may also explain why some of us are not happy about the “uplifting note ending” is about Daenerys ‘liberating’ Yunkai.

  61. barak
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 4:02 am | Permalink

    Yago,

    Book fans expected stuff, didn’t get it, now the show is RUINED and it’s the WORST EPISODE EVER and D&D ARE TALENTLESS HACKS.

    Some people should really learn to divorce the book from the series, and judge the show on its own merits.

  62. mags giantsbabe
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 4:18 am | Permalink

    The last scene was actually uplifting (no pun intended). Like with Jon and Ygritte kissing on the Wall, a lot of hard-core fans seem to become totally unhinged when a scene happens that is, well, simply positive. Just a happy moment between two people, etc. I feel very satisfied after watching the last episode, which I didn’t completely with the S2 finale, especially the Jon fight with Quorin, which had been so rushed. The last scene with Ygritte and Jon was probably the most emotional point we have had for Jon’s storyline, and the fact that it happens between two lovers doesn’t make it “bad”n for example. The only complaints other people I know have is that they have to wait ten more months for S4.

  63. Lex
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 4:22 am | Permalink

    mags giantsbabe:
    The last scene was actually uplifting (no pun intended). Like with Jon and Ygritte kissing on the Wall, a lot of hard-core fans seem to become totally unhinged when a scene happens that is, well, simply positive.

    This, exactly.

    It was a positive and uplifting moment (just look at Emilia’s smile, it’s breathtaking). Plus, the beautiful aerial shot. Sure it wasn’t a shocking/crazy cliffhanger, but it was a refreshing change. I personally really liked it.

  64. thisone
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 5:21 am | Permalink
  65. Monstadon
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 5:37 am | Permalink

    I truly find whattheflicknto be the most entertaining reviews for avGoT I’ve ever seen. I’m so glad they filled the gap that the pseudo-intellectual, whiney reviewer who used to be Larry Williams left for me at the begging of this season.

    Watching their review for the finale was as entertaining if not moreso than the review itself.

    Bravo. Please add the, to your list next year! They’re brilliant, and so qualified in terms of educational and performance background in terms of relating the material to the current ethos.

    All in all… I’m just so sad that this season is over :(. Can’t wait till next year and the Red Viper!

  66. Tar Kidho
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury: when people tell a critic they’re overthinking something or to just “chill out” about it, it seems like the reader is missing the point of reviews and critiques.

    Actually, what *is* the point of reviews and critiques?

    I consider myself smart enough to form my own opinion about things going on around me. Still, I admit to having read Winter’s and Oz’s recaps every week, and some of the comments as well, mostly in the newby recap posts. Why is it that I am interested in other people’s opinions when I clearly have already formed my own opinion before coming here? I don’t really know, but judging by the popularity of recaps/reviews, it must be a general human trait that we seek for confirmation of our own opinion. And judging by the popularity of comments sections on websites in general, it is also clear that if people vent opinions different to ours, many of us will go to great lengths to defend our own views. Some do this by providing well-reasoned argumentations, others do it rather by shouting their beliefs, and often reactions fall somewhere in the middle. Whatever our views are and in whichever way we communicate them, it seems to me that the driving force behind this is that most of us find our own opinions much more important than other people’s opinions. So instead of wanting to “learn” from reviews and critiques, it seems to me that most people actually comment to make sure that their own opinions become the accepted norm. I’m sure that this bevaviour is very interesting for social scientists, and my preferred explanation is that all of this can be explained from an evolutionary/survival point of view…

    Any opinion welcome ;-)

  67. Shady_Grady
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 6:15 am | Permalink

    I was also upset about no Lady Stoneheart reveal but it is what it is. I loved Charles Dance. He just really adds so much gravitas, for lack of a better word. I would have liked to see more of Sansa’s reaction to news of RW even if they changed/added stuff from books. This is pretty heavy news. All in all it was an ok finale but I would like to see major events sprinkled throughout the season and not just saved for season 9.

  68. Red Hound
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 6:32 am | Permalink

    Tar Kidho,

    As a psychology (different brand though) student, I can tell you that acceptance is one of the things that human strive more for. What is interesting is that we want to be accepted by our own view of ourselves, which usually clash with the view that other people have from us.

    We try to shape other people (change their opinions) so they will fit our environment, our view of reality and then we’ll be surrounded by our kin.

  69. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 6:59 am | Permalink
  70. mags giantsbabe
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    Tar Kidho

    This exactly, plus, bonding with fan communities of whom the individuals share more or less the same interests, give us a sense of belonging to something bigger than ourselves. The phenomenon of the internet and how it has intensified the experience of popular culture has helped shape this social landscape, if you will. It has also allowed us as fans to partake in the phenomenon, through discussion, etc. I also know I can stay away from the reader recap of my own free will, but do I? Nope. Did you study something in social science?

    Lex

    People should stop with the Kit/Emelia Jon/Dany hate (but they probably won’t). I personally loved the aerial shot. I just got the soundtrack, and that Adiemus-like song gives me goosebumps. And WompWomp, I think, already pointed out that there’s a great parallel being drawn between the two characters: jon, emotionally and physically wounded, is lifted up by his brothers. Dany, at an emotional high point, is lifted up by people she liberated. both will be acting as leaders and sort of protectors of these people in the future .

  71. Joshua Taylor
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    Tar Kidho,

    While I don’t really have anything deeply profound to say at this juncture. I would like to exposit that while reading a plethora of negative opinions rankles me I find them quite useful to reinforce my own feelings on the show or specific scenes. If I find myself firmly against the critiques of one poster than my being contrary to their point of view is a boon for my enjoyment of the show. Due to the perspectives of other people I have noticed things about the show that I normally would not have seen before. I also firmly believe that we adopt the language of hyperbole (“omg!”, “best/worst episode ever”) to make our opinions heard. One may actually may not hate or love the show or an aspect of the show as much as they say they do. I am aware as well that by making your opinion known you can influence how others see the show. Even the Trolls. If they cared to admit it!

    As for the Dany scene. While I doubt D&D are actively going for a colonialist message, that was a great display of apathy on their part for how that scene would be interpreted. Reading the comments I can see the Jon/Dany connection clearly but I will still chide the production that they left the door wide open in terms of post-colonial critique on the episode’s coda.

  72. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    mags giantsbabe,

    People aren’t coming “unhinged” because the last scene is positive; the scene is being criticized, as many have mentioned, because the show unintentionally created a white savior visual. I really doubt it was on purpose, and I know that they were filming in Morocco so the pool of extras was largely non-white, but calling people “unhinged” for not loving the finale is the kind of hyperbolic language that we’re talking about. It’s divisive and not fair to people offering up reasonable critiques. People are entitled to their opinion, as long as its offered up respectfully.

  73. Ludwig
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    Tar Kidho,

    People (or those with at least half a brain) don’t read critics’ reviews in order to have their own opinions validated but because – ideally, not necessarily – the critic is considerable more educated about the reviewed work, its history. conventions, influences, craftsmanship and so on. Therefore, the critic’s opinion – while not simply superseding your own, naturally – has a high potential of educating you and thereby establishing new possible perspectives on the reviewed work. Your opinions might stay the same but they also could be rendered much more divers/differentiated/detailed/coherent/reflected. In short: The critic’s perspective potentially broadens your own. This, in turn, renders your experience of a work more interesting, since making life more interesting is the most important feature of being educated.
    Additionally, people who are themselves highly educated about the work and its environment might find it stimulating to read another educated person’s (potentially different) opinion. You know, it’s like having a conversation with people who don’t share your values and perspective, but who might inspire new thoughts and ways of thinking… Duh.

    This doesn’t mean, of course, that only professional critics can write useful reviews. Many professional reviews of Game of Thrones, for example, are pretty much unreadable, in my opinion. Others, especially those written by journalists who are well-veres in television history, are quite interesting. With a genre work like GRRM’s ASOIAF, however, chances are good, that dedicated fans are much more informed about almost every aspect, both internal and external, of the work. As long as such non-professional experts can keep a critical distance and know their way about literature/television, they are often superior to mainstream journalists.
    Another example could be ‘review discussions’ by such non-professionals. For example, most readers of ASOIAF who follow the discussions on westeros.org learn a lot about other perspectives on the novels, their cultures and characters from posts that – at their best – approximate highly educated as well as critical reviews of the books, certain passages, or aspects.

  74. The Purist
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    Wow, people here finally stopped bitching about Elio’s review? Either those lot got some common sense that it’s just one person’s opinion or they got tired with the whining.

    Lex: I’m officially done with the book-reader reviews/threads. What a sad, miserable, unimaginative, pedantic bunch. I will be avoiding those threads next year.

    You mean, you’re sick of any criticism given to the show, because you prefer that everyone constantly praise the show like some goody goody cheerleader that you are? Okay fine with me, if you’re not turning up to those threads anymore. Just don’t blame other people have different opinion and that they aren’t the mindless drones that you want them to be.

  75. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    I like the fact that Dany is going to fail hard with her ‘saviour’ bullshit in the coming season. I used to love Dany until she started buying her own hype. It’s a clever and natural progression for her character nevertheless.

  76. TheOtherOther
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    Red Hound: Permalink

    As a book reader, I can see that each season of Game of Thrones has gotten progressively better than the previous. GOT is currently one of my favorite TV series (right alongside Breaking Bad). I really do feel like the best way to experience the show is to read the books first and then sit back and enjoy all your favorite moments of the books play out vividly on screen.

    I am a book reader, let me state that. I am a total TV show supporter, I tend to dislike the book purity comments, I am okay with TV show changes. This wasa great episode except for that ending. I love this show, but that ending was bad.

    I watched it and said, “WTF?”. I rewatched it and still said, “Still WTF?”

    Here is why in my opinion why the Dany scene was a horrible ending, from a TV or Cinema production standpoint.

    1. That felt like a bad Pep Rally or Political Speech, not a liberation scene. Head Cheerleader Dany and her team organizing the slaves to cheer her. Where was the emotion? The sponteanous outpouring of emotion? I think the fall of Sadaam’s statue, or the Indiana Jones scene in Temple of Doom of people being liberated.

    This was a bad emotion killing choice. No passion, no emotion, and was a bad scene.

    2. What the hell were the Unsullied pointing their spears at? A real threat those skinny and unarmed people seemed. Dany walking into them made her Unsullied look like a bunch of fools. Badass Unsullied shouldn’t feel threatened by extras used in National Geographic specials.

    3. The nervous tension of it the slaves will accept freedom was fake tension. Really? What was the point of an organized rally to tell them they are free, with an army of unsullied and dragons? What choices did the people have with all those spears pointed at them.

    Were the slaves going to say “No thanks, I’ll keep my whip and collar?”

    Dany had an army and dragons, so the nervous tension of whether they accept freedom made no sense at all. I doubt Dany is Napolean from Animal Farm, so the scene just made no sense.

    Again, if you want to do liberation, make it feel like liberation, not a bad political US Presidential stump speech.

    3. Crowd Surfing – C’mon!! That was terrible. Fracking Terrible.

    I saw that scene before, it was in a Pearl Jam Video many years ago. I half expected the end music to be “Even Flow”. That brings me to another gripe, that music took me out of it, rare for this show.

    4. Can we not have the lilly white girl liberating all dark skinned people? I know there are porduction and extra challenges, but up until then, Essos has seemed more diverse on the TV show. That was the first thought that popped into my head, “Abraham Dany”.

    Look, I understand, but in TV, image is everything, and that was a wierd image.

    5. The extras. They looked like they had been standing there for 24 takes, the chants did nothing for me. Again, a swarming cheering crowd, maybe in some narrow Yunkai streets, more like a parade of unsullied marching, chanting Mhyssa would have been more powerful. Dany wouldn’t have had to say anything,

    Emilia Clarke is wonderful with facial expressions, shet could have sold the moment without speaking, followed with the dragons flying overhead. Have a statue or symbol of the slavers toppled. Why did we need a pep rally?

    Sometimes less is better, I didn’t get the emotion of liberation.

    I love this show, I think most of what Dan and Dave do is awesome, but I had a real problem with that ending from a bad TV production and execution standpoint.

  77. mariamb18
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    The only difference between this finale and the previous two was the ending.If you took away the final scenes from each of the finales I would say that the third season’s finale was the strongest, definately stronger than ‘Valar Morghulis’.

    I agree. I think that it is always hard to follow the emotionally charged episodes. But “Mhysa” (as a whole) worked better for me than “Valar Morghulis” because of its “smaller” moments: Sam meeting Bran & company, Jaime’s arrival in KL, The Hound and Arya leaving the Twins, Davos and Gendry talking about Flea Bottom, Tywin and Joffrey.

    This show sometimes missteps when it tries to force significance to certain events. The last scene of this finale is, IMO, one of those missteps. I though it was much more powerful when we watched Dany march out of Astapor at the end of episode 4. Same message – just delivered with a bit more subtlety.

    Alternatively, this show has been very good at portraying smaller, less expansive moments…regardless of whether or not those moments are in the books. Charles Dance is always incredible but especially when he was talking to Tyrion about his birth. John Bradley, Thomas Brody-Sangster, Liam Cunningham, Rory McCann always bring a depth to their characters, even with limited screen time.

    I guess that was my long-winded way of saying that “Mhysa” delivered for me but perhaps not in that last scene.

  78. Joshua Taylor
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    I agree. I have nothing against the scene myself but it feels like someone was on set going “you know how this will look right?”. And D & D just said “Fuck it. Print it. Their gonna bitch anyway.”
    It seems devoid of any indication that the writers are aware that we live in a post colonial world.

  79. Turncloak
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    Family, Duty, Hodor,

    I’m also excited to see Dany fail when she faces the Harpy. Which to me is the equivalent of a guerilla warfare resistance movement

  80. mags giantsbabe
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury

    I just read a collection of critics’ takes on the last scene and are only now becoming aware of all the implications of the colonial image Dany’s crowd surfing provoked. Upon the first watch I did not think of “what it looked like” racially and politically. When I was talking about “unhinged” I was including the Dany scene, but was moreso thinking about the Wall-kissing scene, so I was kind of being tongue in cheek about people who go off at the romancing on the show. I did not mean to be insensitive to real concerns that people have about the strong visual impact of a scene and what it might be saying to them politically and racially.

    With that being said, I have always seen the Targaryeans as a mythical race of Valerians (am I right?) With silver hair because of their Dragon’s blood, and not as representative of a mythical race that acts as a symbol or metaphor for “white” people in our own world (did anyone else?). One can now also ask, in light of the tv show, if this was GRRM’s intention?

    But we are watching this show, a fantasy show, in a real world with a real political and social history. And if it’s one thing I learned of my Masters, is that text/ tv show should be seen in it’s historical context. So the exposition of the scene and how it plays out might be saying a lot about Hollywood, fantasy as written by “white men” or how Western fantasy tropes expose the myth of the white West. This is as viewed at it’s most cynical. On a more positive viewing, I never once connected the Targaryeans and their silver hair to white blonde people.

  81. mags giantsbabe
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    But alas, seeing a scene where a white-haired white girl crowd-surfs messianically on the poor just-liberated slightly-too-brown slave people will be interpreted by many in a post-colonial context, which explains why it is seen as deeply insensitive. I guess David and Dan just lost their potential Emmy nominations (which is, ironically, handed out by people who are part of the very system that implicitly dictates the appearance of such a scene)

    However let’s also go back to the hallowed source material. Why create a racially heterogeneous but deeply socially unequal continent (Essos) in text and have it liberated by a white-haired presumably fair-skinned girl? Maybe GRRM himself suffers from the Western syndrome.

  82. Turncloak
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    I usually don’t read Elio reviewed but I think he brought so excellent points a out the episode. Good read

  83. Turncloak
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    I’m not liking the Stannis portrayal. He is too whipped to the detriment of the show. It makes u think why Daavos continues to follow him. I’m thinking D&D will continue this path and will make Stannis capture Yara b4 she reaches Theon making him look like a bad guy. Whereas in the books, Stannis capturing Asha was a hell yes! moment as someone finally was freeing the North from that Irobborn scum

  84. Tar Kidho
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Red Hound: We try to shape other people (change their opinions) so they will fit our environment, our view of reality and then we’ll be surrounded by our kin.

    That’s an interesting concept: trying to fit in by changing ones surroundings. Seems to me that this is something us “civilized” humans do in many different ways, not only in our dealings with eachother, but also in our dealings with the world around us.

    mags giantsbabe: plus, bonding with fan communities of whom the individuals share more or less the same interests, give us a sense of belonging to something bigger than ourselves.

    The need to belong is definitely another concept found in humans and other social species. The scary thing to me is seeing how heated discussions between the different groups can become on trivial topics, like a tv show…
    And no, I didn’t study sociol sciences or psychology or something like that. I am in fact an “exact scientist”, where in principal something you measure should give very clear-cut results. It’s seeing how different people can interprete these “exact results” in very different ways that made me realize how biased each and every one of us in our opinions. I would say that the more convinced you find yourself of an opinion, the more you need to be wary that it might be your mind playing tricks on you ;-)

    Ludwig: People (or those with at least half a brain) don’t read critics’ reviews in order to have their own opinions validated but because – ideally, not necessarily – the critic is considerable more educated about the reviewed work, its history. conventions, influences, craftsmanship and so on.

    Ludwig: You know, it’s like having a conversation with people who don’t share your values and perspective, but who might inspire new thoughts and ways of thinking… Duh.

    Even though I can follow you in the general lines of what you say, the way you present your view is too black-white, even condescending to me, so you kinda prove my point…

    Joshua Taylor: Due to the perspectives of other people I have noticed things about the show that I normally would not have seen before.

    Yes, that’s true as well. All in all it seems like there’s many reasons for someone to read a review or critique, and as such it remains difficult for me to clearly define what the attraction to them is, what people expect to take from them. Just like with everything else where opinions come into play, it depends from person to person I guess, and there can be no single answer. I found it an interesting question though…maybe I *should* have studied social sciences instead of excatc sciences ;-)

    mags giantsbabe: I just read a collection of critics’ takes on the last scene and are only now becoming aware of all the implications of the colonial image Dany’s crowd surfing provoked. Upon the first watch I did not think of “what it looked like” racially and politically.

    Me neither, it’s only comments here that raised the issue to me, proving that there is added value to reading comments and critiques. (lesson learned for today!) While I can understand why other people would interpret the scene in the “white messias” way, it never crossed my mind, probably because (1) I’m not religious at all and (2) because of my work and travels I have friends from all over the globe and nationalities/racialities just have lost all meaning to me.

  85. zaprowsdower
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    mags giantsbabe,

    But that is not what GRRM wrote. Essos is not heterogeneous and it’s clearly stated that people enslaved in Yunkai are from different parts of the known world.

  86. johnnytata
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    TheOtherOther: I am a book reader, let me state that. I am a total TV show supporter, I tend to dislike the book purity comments, I am okay with TV show changes. This wasa great episode except for that ending. I love this show, but that ending was bad.I watched it and said, “WTF?”. I rewatched it and still said, “Still WTF?”Here is why in my opinion why the Dany scene was a horrible ending, from a TV or Cinema production standpoint.1. That felt like a bad Pep Rally or Political Speech, not a liberation scene. Head Cheerleader Dany and her team organizing the slaves to cheer her. Where was the emotion? The sponteanous outpouring of emotion? I think the fall of Sadaam’s statue, or the Indiana Jones scene in Temple of Doom of people being liberated. This was a bad emotion killing choice. No passion, no emotion, and was a bad scene. 2. What the hell were the Unsullied pointing their spears at? A real threat those skinny and unarmed people seemed. Dany walking into them made her Unsullied look like a bunch of fools. Badass Unsullied shouldn’t feel threatened by extras used in National Geographic specials.3. The nervous tension of it the slaves will accept freedom was fake tension. Really? What was the point of an organized rally to tell them they are free, with an army of unsullied and dragons? What choices did the people have with all those spears pointed at them.Were the slaves going to say “No thanks, I’ll keep my whip and collar?”Dany had an army and dragons, so the nervous tension of whether they accept freedom made no sense at all. I doubt Dany is Napolean from Animal Farm, so the scene just made no sense.Again, if you want to do liberation, make it feel like liberation, not a bad political US Presidential stump speech.3. Crowd Surfing – C’mon!! That was terrible. Fracking Terrible.I saw that scene before, it was in a Pearl Jam Video many years ago. I half expected the end music to be “Even Flow”. That brings me to another gripe, that music took me out of it, rare for this show.4. Can we not have the lilly white girl liberating all dark skinned people? I know there are porduction and extra challenges, but up until then, Essos has seemed more diverse on the TV show. That was the first thought that popped into my head, “Abraham Dany”.Look, I understand, but in TV, image is everything, and that was a wierd image. 5. The extras. They looked like they had been standing there for 24 takes, the chants did nothing for me. Again, a swarming cheering crowd, maybe in some narrow Yunkai streets, more like a parade of unsullied marching, chanting Mhyssa would have been more powerful. Dany wouldn’t have had to say anything, Emilia Clarke is wonderful with facial expressions, shet could have sold the moment without speaking, followed with the dragons flying overhead. Have a statue or symbol of the slavers toppled. Why did we need a pep rally?Sometimes less is better, I didn’t get the emotion of liberation. I love this show, I think most of what Dan and Dave do is awesome, but I had a real problem with that ending from a bad TV production and execution standpoint.

    there is a difference between this ^, a well thought out opinion, and the purist book-whore’s who condescend the show and show-fans, and there are plenty of those.

    i think it is absolutely true that there is a subset of book purists who come unhinged. they should not represent the vast majority of book readers who are likely rational and can disapprove of a scene or story-choice and can be level-headed about it. but the extremists with the megaphones drown them out.

    don’t minimze the backlash these people are getting, and that several commentors are fleeing the book-reader recaps because of them.

  87. mags giantsbabe
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    Tar Kidho

    Fortunately and also unfortunately having studied in the humanities and doing subjects like social anthropology made me overly aware of issues surrounding race and cultural dynamics. Strangely though I never made the connection that Dany’s last scene would be interpreted as offensive. But I agree that coming on here and exposing myself to other people’s views does influence my perception of the show, not always negatively, but sometimes enhances my understanding as well.

    People maybe just need to learn to 1, not take (or give) offense too easily and 2, not take themselves to seriously and just enjoy the ride.

  88. mags giantsbabe
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Zaprowsdower

    I can’t remember this detail. So the slave population of Essos should have been portrayed as more diverse instead of too obviously “we’re making assumptions of a proposed real world order” then.

  89. Cary Storm
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    I don’t know about the rest of you, but I kind of felt like the final scene was supposed to leave me a bit unhinged by the contrast–and a very good setup to the problems she’s going to encounter in Season 4.

  90. Ludwig
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

    Even though I can follow you in the general lines of what you say, the way you present your view is too black-white, even condescending to me, so you kinda prove my point…

    So you put out some ridiculously superficial view on critics’ reviews, arguing (probably following your own approach) that people read them in order to feel warm and fuzzy – and then you accuse me of black-and-white presentation?
    Get a grip.

  91. Lex
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    The Purist:
    Wow, people here finally stopped bitching about Elio’s review? Either those lot got some common sense that it’s just one person’s opinion or they got tired with the whining.

    You mean, you’re sick of any criticism given to the show, because you prefer that everyone constantly praise the show like some goody goody cheerleader that you are? Okay fine with me, if you’re not turning up to those threads anymore. Just don’t blame other people have different opinion and that they aren’t the mindless drones that you want them to be.

    LOL. I still think you’re Linda…

  92. Lex
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    And for the record, @The Purist, I’m not a cheerleader or a mindless drone. I’ve read the books 3 times, and I have MANY critiques of the show. But I also know the difference between nitpicking, purism, pedantry, and valid criticism. I also know how to sit back and enjoy what is undoubtedly one of the best TV shows of all time. I feel sorry for you and those others who are so full of mindless nerd rage that you lack the ability to enjoy it for what it is – engrossing, entertaining television, supported by mostly excellent writing and fantastic acting. I really couldn’t care less if you, or anyone else, hates the show. I’m just tired of reading your drivel.

  93. Khal-A-Bunga
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    Lex: LOL. I still think you’re Linda…

    Can’t be – doesn’t use the word “cunt” enough.

  94. James Hibberd
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    Macharius,

    After seeing these comments I clarified things a bit in my latest update to the recap (I polish for days after posting, especially when there’s no screener in advance). Obviously there are a few deaths to come and, sure, a couple are characters that viewers might want to see dead. But emotionally I suspect viewers would be more numb to such violence one week after The Red Wedding. By waiting, the Thrones team can give those moments the ramp-up and impact they deserve.

  95. johnnytata
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    impatience is very common amongst the critics of this show, mostly the book readers.

    i don’t know how many times this season (when i started paying attention to the comments) people complained that “x,y or z” was not explained properly when the very next week “x, y or z” was explained very deftly, much more so than had it occurred the way people wanted or suggested it should be.

    here is what frustrates me about the book readers: they have a specific image in mind of how something should look, feel, be acted, or be written. that means that each book reader has this internal vision. that means that there are millions of internal visions. how in the hell is it possible to satisfy millions of internal visions? it is not. yet people rant and rave when their own personal vision is not satisfied. i can even handle this to some extent, i understand that it is frustrating when something doesn’ meet my expectations, but the rigid egocentrism is unbearable at times.

  96. Skipjack
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    As a book reader, I don’t have such a problem with Dany having a White Savior moment since it all blows up in her face, at least in Mereen. I do think it would be pretty funny if they did indeed know how that moment would play since her occupation of Mereen is a pretty transparent analogue to the US in Iraq. Since so many people do identify with Daenerys as this girl-power liberator I think let them have this one and deepen their hopes for some redemptive Messiah, which hopes will then be dashed if anyone can keep their attention through that slog. I do think of Daenerys as a messianic figure, but much more of an Anti-Christ. In addition, I read some comments earlier today to the effect that the shade of blue they are putting her in is the same shade of blue worn by the Madonna (not Ciccone) in medieval iconography. If so, aside from it being very pretty on Emilia, still more props to Michelle Clapton.

  97. hare
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm,

    This. I don’t even know if it was intentional on the part of the show-runners, although Jorah’s face implied that at least within the show world some characters were seeing the potential pitfalls.

    ———-

    On the culture of comment threads, yes they are self-reinforcing and create extreme oppositions that kind of drown out alternate or middle ground voices. But also these cultures are site specific. For example the AVclub book readers and newbies threads have very different takes and tone than that found here (and manage to be both insightful and funny the majority of the time which is pretty amazing imo). So it seems kind of myopic to try to draw conclusions about book reader’s responses or new viewers responses to an episode without checking other fishbowls.

    The professional reviews offer a much broader range of responses, so I really appreciate them being linked here to find quickly.

  98. Tar Kidho
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    Ludwig: So you put out some ridiculously superficial view on critics’ reviews, arguing (probably following your own approach) that people read them in order to feel warm and fuzzy – and then you accuse me of black-and-white presentation?
    Get a grip.

    Well, interpreting the tone of your first reply as prove of my initial opinion (which went further than just the review debate) was just too easy, and by doing so I fell into the same trap, and then you again in your next reply…

    I think this discussion would probably be much nicer in real life somewhere in a bar with a drink. Firstly because that’s simply a more social environment to find yourself in than sitting behind a computer, and also because the tone of the conversation would be much different I guess if we spoke eye to eye (e.g., I don’t assume you’d speak about “people with at least half a brain”, say “duh” to make your point come across, or use as strong a term as “get a grip” after I tell you that I think you bring your opinion “too black-and-white”). After proposing my opinion as to why reviews are so popular, you’d come back with your take on it, on which I then could give my thoughts (most likely without calling your opinion “too black-and-white”, I concur), and before we’d know it, we’d find ourselves in a lively discussion with lots of common ground and a much better understanding of each other’s views on points we’d disagree. Instead, we find ourselves now in a discussion on some forum, and if we’re not carefull it can easily turn into a shouting competition as both of us focus almost exclusively on the things we don’t like in each other’s replies. Internet discussion are simply entirely different than real-life discussions, and for most of the time I prefer to stay out of them…

  99. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 11, 2013 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    I agree with the Westeros.org’s assessment this week. The youtube one at least.

  100. The Purist
    Posted June 12, 2013 at 4:01 am | Permalink

    Lex: LOL. I still think you’re Linda…

    Oh, I’m not Linda from Westeros.org if that’s who you’re talking about. To be honest, she’s a book purist lite compared to me. It’s funny how you think that the only person who would defend Elio is Linda, you must be the biggest cheerleader of the show, despite what you mentioned. There are more people than you think that agrees with Elio. If your turn on is imagining a guy is a lady named Linda then go right ahead. Who am I to stop their kinky habits.

    Lex: And for the record, @The Purist, I’m not a cheerleader or a mindless drone. I’ve read the books 3 times, and I have MANY critiques of the show. But I also know the difference between nitpicking, purism, pedantry, and valid criticism. I also know how to sit back and enjoy what is undoubtedly one of the best TV shows of all time. I feel sorry for you and those others who are so full of mindless nerd rage that you lack the ability to enjoy it for what it is – engrossing, entertaining television, supported by mostly excellent writing and fantastic acting. I really couldn’t care less if you, or anyone else, hates the show. I’m just tired of reading your drivel.

    You say you aren’t a cheerleader and you couldn’t care less if anyone hates the show, but that’s not the case. Looking at your comments here where you almost always get all butthurt when somebody criticizes the show. Oh, don’t feel sorry of us, so you don’t need to be so patronizing. Not everyone thinks GoT is “undoubtedly one of the best TV shows of all time” nor it’s an “engrossing, entertaining television, supported by mostly excellent writing and fantastic acting”. You say you’re not a cheerleader? Really? Some people don’t have the same opinions on the show as you do. Deal with it. But don’t worry, you can dream about me being Linda if that soothes your rage. :)

    Khal-A-Bunga: Can’t be – doesn’t use the word “cunt” enough.

    D&D are a bunch of c… country music lovers. Ha! You thought I was going to type that one out.


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