Red Viper cast!
By Winter Is Coming on in Casting, News.

Pedro Pascal in Burn NoticeHere is the big casting news everyone was waiting for… Pedro Pascal has been cast as Oberyn Martell! Pascal is a Chilean actor who most recently was seen in the TV shows Graceland and Red Widow. Oberyn Martell, aka the Red Viper, arrives in King’s Landing from Dorne and stands to play a pivotal role in the events of next season.

James Hibberd of Entertainment Weekly broke the news and offers this quote from Benioff and Weiss about the casting:

“This was a tough one,” say showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss about the casting. “The Red Viper is sexy and charming, yet believably dangerous; intensely likable, yet driven by hate. The boys love him, the girls love him, and he loves them all back. Unless your last name is Lannister. We found a fellow who can handle the job description and make it seem effortless. He wasn’t easy to find and he won’t be easy to stop.”

Winter Is Coming: We have our Red Viper! I don’t know much about Pascal, so I will have to take some time to familiarize myself with his work. Looks-wise, he is a bit younger and less swarthy than I imagined, but I can live with that. In Nina Gold I trust and all that. What are your thoughts? Does Pedro match the Red Viper in your head? Do you think he can pull off the cocky and confident Prince of Dorne?


978 Comments

  1. ebevan91
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    Hodor

    Ok now that I’ve gotten that out of the way, I checked the guy’s resume on IMDB. He’s been in a lot of stuff.

    Graceland
    Red Widow
    Nikita
    The Sixth Gun
    CSI: Crime Scene Investigation
    Body of Proof
    Charlie’s Angels (the new one)
    Law and Order SVU
    Burn Notice
    The Good Wife
    Law and Order: Criminal Intent
    Law and Order
    Without a Trace
    NYPD Blue
    Buffy the Vampire Slayer

  2. D'Arcy
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    YOU RAPED HER! YOU MURDERED HER! YOU KILLED HER CHILDREN!

  3. Aemon
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    WAAAAHH SKIN’S TOO LIGHT!! BOO HOOO NOT WHAT I PICTURED!!

  4. voicareason
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    I’m not familiar with his work, but I fully place my trust in Nina Gold.

  5. Michel
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    Honestly, I don’t know how is his acting, but I’m a bit disappointed, since Oberyn is only gonna appear for these season, probably 7 episodes at maximum, and I guess they could have hired an big star like how they did with Ned.

  6. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    Her name was Elia. You murdered her. You raped her.

  7. M
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    Y’know what? I can see it.

  8. The Loon
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    well…I think with long hair and the proper make up and wardrobe he’ll do quite nicely

  9. SerCountryFriedSteak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    That video of him on Vimeo isn’t so good. Someone find something awesome from this guy!

  10. gisizzlah
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    Approved!!!

  11. dmf
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    SOOOOOOOOO EXCITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  12. Brightroar
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    He’s got the large basically black eyes. I think he’ll be fine for the role he just can’t muck it up or it’ll ruin his career. I imagine they’ll use some lighting and makeup to make him seem darker and more menacing in certain scenes.

  13. Red Viper
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    My name.

    It’s relevant.

  14. Andrew
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    Is there going to be outrage? Should I leave now, or is it safe to stay? I don’t recall ever seeing him in anything, but he looks cool. Hopefully this year we’ll get more spread out announcements rather than nothing for months and then everything.

  15. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    I know what’s going to happen. We’re gping to get some handwringing and whining, and then, with all casting on GoT not named Ciaran Hinds (arguably a different issue as he’s well known), he is goong to turn out awesome.

  16. wiltl
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    Not what I imagined while reading, but I’ll keep an open mind! If Nina thinks he’s the man for the job then I’ll trust the Gold.

  17. Canary
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    Not how I pictured Oberyn (Naveen Andrews is a much more solid match for my mind’s eye Red Viper) but I’m not displeased. I hope they have him grow out his hair a bit.

  18. Nights_king
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    Michel,

    Having a “big name” isn’t nearly as important as having someone who can excel in the role. Given their nearly flawless casting record thus far, I’m quite confident that they saw something special in Pedro, and I can’t wait to see it myself.

  19. AA
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    D&D: “The boys love him, the girls love him, and he loves them all back.”
    I guess that answers the question of how they’ll portray his sexuality!

  20. Sunny
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Brightroar:
    He’s got the large basically black eyes. I think he’ll be fine for the role he just can’t muck it up or it’ll ruin his career. I imagine they’ll use some lighting and makeup to make him seem darker and more menacing in curtains scenes.

    They better not do brownface…. I swear to God I will hit something.

  21. Michael274
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Canary,

    I’ve seen him in LOST. That guy has no charisma whatsoever .

  22. gisizzlah
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    I prefer the ‘unknowns’ being cast… it doesnt distract from the character they’re playing plus they are more motivated to give the best portrayal of the character as possible…

    Plus…
    In nina gold we trust…

    Do your thing Pedro… (dont f*** it up!)

  23. Spidey-Dan
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t slightly disappointed that they didn’t go with a slightly darker-skinned actor, but I’ll get over it. I do retain hope that they’ll take the opportunity that the highly mixed-race nature of Dorne provides and cast a diverse set of actors to fill out the Martell family.

  24. Michel
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    Nights_king,

    I don’t doubt that Pedro is good to! In Nina We Trust.

  25. Jon
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    The Dornish are Awesome Can’t wait for season 4 & the Viper.

  26. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    as long as he can play confident without arrogance (a likable version of Daario), it’s all good to me. BUT WHERE’S THE WIDOW’S PEAK?! HE’S NOT DARK ENOUGH, WORST CASTING EVER RARARASDHGKSDGDSK :P

  27. King Tommen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    I’m just waiting for the Tumblr crew to arrive and weigh in to see if this actor is “diverse” enough. I mean how do you balance the complaint of the guy’s skin not being dark enough with the fact that his name is Pedro? It’s a conundrum.

    I’m on pins and needles waiting to see if the all-important “diversity demand” has been satisfied…

  28. The Bull
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    Not what I imagined, not what I thought he should look like, but I will wait and see how it all plays out. Once he’s in costume and all that.

  29. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    He’s Latino, which I think is how many people interpreted the Martells. I don’t think painting him darker would be wise. He looks fine the way he is. I’ll check him out a bit more but I’m optimistic. They don’t need a big expensive name for Oberyn.

  30. darquemode
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    Good look for the role!

    Awesome to have the first casting be a big role!
    He is only slightly different than I pictured the Dornish, although he is not as serpent-like as I pictured the Red VIper!

  31. axia777
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    I guess all the fan favs were too expensive? Not available? I don’t know who this guy is but I trust the casting crew of this show 100%.

    But is not what I imagined in my head at all. He is not bad ass looking enough by half. he is a good looking man but he is neither intimidating nor does he give off the vibe the Red Viper needs and does in the books. I guess we shall we how this turns out.

  32. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    And if I haven’t already clarified, I think he looks cool. He’ll be awesome.

  33. SerCountryFriedSteak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Terrible to say, but I did expect/want some who wasn’t so light skinned for diversity.

    Does this affect the casting of the Red Viper’s sister & brother? Are they even going to be in the show?

    I wouldn’t mind tightening the Dorne storylines, but I”m fearing most of Dorne will get cut.

  34. NewJeffCT
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    How many Dornishmen does it take to start a war?

    I assume that if D&D and Nina Gold think he has the necessary swagger and confidence, he should do just fine?

  35. Michel
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    I’m the only when I opened the article thaught that guy was Hawkeye from Avengers? (Jeremy Renner)

  36. The Greatsteve
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Looks like Rick Danko from The Band.

  37. LordStarkington
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    My work computer doesn’t seem to like looking at images on google but http://www.imdb.com/media/rm223328256/nm0050959 looks vaguely Red Viperish

  38. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    axia777:
    I guess all the fan favs were too expensive?Not available?I don’t know who this guy is but I trust the casting crew of this show 100%.

    But is not what I imagined in my head at all.He is not bad ass looking enough by half.he is a good looking man but he is neither intimidating nor does he give off the vibe the Red Viper needs and does in the books.I guess we shall we how this turns out.

    There are people who are entirely different when they slip into character. I will reserve judgement. Honestly if I’d seen half of the cast before I saw them playing their characters, I would have thought they looked terrible for the part. Weren’t there people who thought Robert would be bad? I didn’t watch the show at that time, so I don’t know. But his personality was spot on. And the casting has been solid in this show, so I will trust them.

  39. Andrew
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    SerCountryFriedSteak,

    I imagine they’ll hold off on the rest of Dorne till season 5, as well as maybe condensing the number of Sand Snakes. This year will just be Oberyn and mentions of Myrcella, Doran, etc. that way, they don’t introduce too many people at once.

  40. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    I don’t care that much about diversity for the sake of diversity, but Dorne really is a different beast from the rest of Westeros. As long as they get that across, I will be happy, to be honest.

  41. AshStorm
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    RED VIPER IS IN!!!!!!

  42. Blake
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    Anybody want to see this guy’s acting ability? Here you go. http://vimeo.com/18945174

  43. robb17
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    he looks good! bit whiter than expected, actually a lot whiter.
    so does this mean an all Latino-Martells?
    i would prefer more diversity for the Martells

  44. Winter's heart
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    Really don’t care that his skin isn’t that dark. As long as he plays the role with zeal and passion I’m happy.

  45. natehilk
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    Oberyn’s swagger is more important than his skin color. I’ll reserve judgement until I see his performance. Besides, I always pictured the Dornish as more Greek than Middle Eastern.

  46. Jillybean
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    voicareason,

    Ditto. He’s a sandy dornishman, and I’m not completely caught up with skin color, I just wanted another nationality other than British, Irish, or American. Chilean works for me.

    I trust the casting, and will reserve my opinion until we see him in action and in costume.

  47. Carlos Ubilla
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    Okay, I also expected them to cast someone more dark-skinned, but… I’m Chilean, and having a Chilean actor play one of my favorite characters on one of my favorite series is fucking amazing. I hope he does well.

    VIVA CHILE MIERDA UYUYUYYYYYYYY!!!!!

  48. HalfWarg
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    Not trying to be cynical, but I strongly dislike this casting move. Besides the fact that casting a light-skinned Hispanic practically guts the visual distinction of the Dornish before they even get started, this guy’s work history is unimpressive to say the least.

    He’s had minor and medium sized roles in a plethora of terrible shows on a handful of pathetic networks–and now he’s entrusted with one of the most charismatic roles in one of the most popular book series ever? Seriously? Did they walk into a USA Network casting office and grab the first guy they saw?

  49. Lex
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    Wow, big news! Awesome. He looks right to me.

  50. Rain
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    You guys should probably all just take a long, hard look at yourselves. Stating ‘Oh, I bet everyone else is going to say ‘___________’, and then demeaning them for it isn’t clever. It makes you look ridiculous.

    If people have issues with him because of skin colour, because of past experience, let them have those issues. Some people might present them fairly and like civilized human beings.

  51. J.J
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    LOVE IT!! I always imagined the Martells as hispanic in appearance so works perfectly :D. I’m so excited!

  52. Anon
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    I am sure he will be amazing. Remember when everyone was upset when Michelle Fairley was cast as Cat when she wasn’t a huge name.
    She ended up giving the best performance I’ve seen in years on television at the red wedding

  53. Lyanna_Targaryen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    To fill the void between the end of the season and the beginning of casting and production news, I’ve been going way, way back in the archives and reading this site from the beginning (I’ve only been reading about a year). It is fascinating stuff.

    Each casting announcement had more than it’s fair share of hand wringing, teeth gnashing, and “NO ONE UNDERSTANDS!!!!!”. With nearly every single character (Tyrion and Tywin were almost universally accepted off the bat, but, I digress).

    And guess what? They all blew us away. I cannot imagine anyone but Emilia Clarke as Dany, Michelle Fairely as Catelyn, Mark Addy as Robert, etc. Not a single actor in the cast has disappointed me in their portrayal of their respective characters (except The Mountain #2 because CONAN).

    In Nina Gold I trust. In D&D I trust.

    Let the actor (and the makeup team, and the costume designers) show us what they can do before leaping to judgement.

  54. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    The ethnicity/skin color question and his acting past are two very different issues. I don’t think the fact that he was on a bunch of different shows over the years is a bad thing. A lot of people don’t become stars overnight. D&D could have cast anybody for this role and they chose Pascal, so he presumably had a very good audition.

    Now having an issue about the ethnicity or skin color is something else, and that I won’t debate, as I would like to see more diversity in general on the show. But having a Latino actor in a notable role is a good start.

  55. Selmy
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    Definitely whiter than I imagined but I just hope he’s a good actor. Excited now!!!!!!!
    Please can we have more casting announcements at comic con!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  56. AA
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    Blake,

    What is that video! I can’t take him seriously now

  57. 3eyes
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    He probably tans well……..

  58. robb17
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    HalfWarg,

    its unfair to judge someone before even seeing them play the character. especially for a show like GOT, where most of the season 1′s POV actors were unknown/firsttime actors. i mean Robert Baratheon was Fred Flinstone. so…

  59. Jillybean
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    This is a good pic, if the link works:

    http://www.imdb.com/media/rm223328256/nm0050959

  60. Tabes
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    I wholeheartedly trust Nina and this guy looks the part to me, I don’t know what it is about him but I approve just from glancing at the pic.

  61. bloodflower
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    You suck, hbo. You know all the reasons why.

  62. Blake
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    AA,

    Haha the video is not Red Viperish at all, but it shows he can act!

  63. Lex
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    LOL @ that Vimeo video. I’m getting hints of Nathan Fillion.

  64. SkyAero
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    I think he looks great and i think we might get some man on man action judging by what D said about the part!

  65. Yago
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    In Nina we trust. He looks like a badass, so that’s something. Not how I imagined him, but acting ability is the most important thing.

  66. wargsareawesome
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    I pictured the Viper with longer hair, but that can easily be achieved with a wig, so it’s not an issue.

  67. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    I can’t speak on his acting, but I think he is different from the rest of the characters from Westeros and he will do fine. He doesn’t look like he is descended from the First Men or the Andals. And really, that is what is important. I always thought they would go with either Latino or Middle Eastern actors for the Martells. It appears they chose the former.

  68. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    the vimeo video will have to be edited from my memory by the time next year comes or i will not be able to take him seriously lol

  69. LadyStone
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    So excited for casting news!

    First thought from glancing at the picture was “not what I imagined at all,” but I think in costume, etc. I could definitely see it.

    Can’t think of any casting on the show I didn’t like once I saw the actor on screen, so I’m not worried :)

  70. sati
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    Definitely looks the part! I hope he has the talent to pull the role off.

  71. The Rabbit
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    He looks all right.
    In Nina Gold we trust!

  72. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    Grumpy Cat face !!!

    Not happy about this at all, there goes my excitement for season 4.

  73. Ser Bro
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    Not crazy about whatever is going on in that Vimeo clip, but again, there is zero context as to what or who’s he going for there. His mannerisms lead me to believe the swagger will be there in spades. Lets just see if being around top-flight talent like Dinklage and company brings out his A+ game.

    Mostly, I just can’t wait to hear those words.

    “You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children.”

  74. Ser Bro
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen:
    Grumpy Cat face !!!

    Not happy about this at all, there goes my excitement for season 4.

    Good. Now leave and never come back.

  75. JR
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    This really sucks!! I had high expectations for the Red Viper, but this is a let down. I bet this guy came cheap. Looks like we’re in for low budget actors here on out

  76. ebevan91
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    The best news is that this is the first casting news, and hopefully the floodgate is now open.

  77. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    So much for POCs lol

  78. Josh Parker
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    I’m down with this. He looks similar to how I pictured him.

    While watching The Sopranos for the first time (a couple of years ago) I thought Frederico Castelluccio would make a great Red Viper and this guy seems to be cut from the same cloth. Yes, I can get behind this.

    I never expected a huge name in the role.

  79. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    Downtown Abbey gets Paul Giamatti and we get some obscure actor from Chili. Nina Gold has lost her touch, she’s not made a great casting decision since S2.

  80. Selmy
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    JR,

    Great attitude you have there.

  81. Aemon
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    HalfWarg:
    Not trying to be cynical, but I strongly dislike this casting move. Besides the fact that casting a light-skinned Hispanic practically guts the visual distinction of the Dornish before they even get started, this guy’s work history is unimpressiveto say the least.

    He’s had minor and medium sized roles in a plethora of terrible shows on a handful of pathetic networks–and now he’s entrusted with one of the most charismatic roles in one of the most popular book series ever? Seriously? Did they walk into a USA Network casting office and grab the first guy they saw?

    Somehow I get the feeling that their casting process is a little more complex than looking at an actor’s filmography. Hasn’t Nina Gold earned a little trust?

  82. Ser Bro
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    “So much for diversity! He’s not Chilean enough!”

    Please shut your faces.

  83. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    Pau Soriano,

    Maybe it’s because I’m American, but I don’t see Latino as ‘white’. He isdifferent from the rest of the Westeros cast and that is what is important.

  84. Richard Weetabix
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    Not what I’d pictured, but the casting has been almost uniformly exquisite. D and D and the casting director have more than earned my trust.

  85. JR
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    Selmy,

    Why should i be happy? This site along with tons of people have been speculating on this for weeks and this is the best they could do. I don’t need a big star, but being an avid book reader, I don’t understand the pick. I’d like to be cautiously optimistic, but I just don’t see this guy as the Red Viper. I think this decision had more to do with $$ than being right for the part.

  86. Michelle
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    I’ve seen him in a few of those small parts. He’s pretty good actually. I think he’ll be just fine. Nice to see another continent get represented!

  87. Josh Parker
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    I don’t get how there’s so much negativity after all we’ve seen on the show. At this point we should all be understanding that they’re following the major plotlines from the books but taking alternate routes to get there, including alternate interpretations of characters. I have yet to finish a season of GoT and think “This show is starting to suck”.

    Faithfulness to the book =/= quality.
    Lack of word-for-word faithfulness =/= lack of quality.
    An actor who looks different from how you personally pictured a character =/= the wrong choice.
    An actor you’ve never heard of =/= no acting talent and/or a guy they signed because he came cheap.

  88. Nerd
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    Looks great to me!

    Now all we need is to re-cast The Mountain.

  89. Rhaelle
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    On first glance I was screaming NOOOOOO, but this isn’t a good pic. I can see him pull off Red Viper perfectly. He’s got those big dark eyes and looks quite attractive in most of his other pics :)

  90. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    JR,

    Here here.

  91. Cary Storm
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    The ethnicity/skin color question and his acting past are two very different issues. I don’t think the fact that he was on a bunch of different shows over the years is a bad thing. A lot of people don’t become stars overnight. D&D could have cast anybody for this role and they chose Pascal, so he presumably had a very good audition.

    Now having an issue about the ethnicity or skin color is something else, and that I won’t debate, as I would like to see more diversity in general on the show. But having a Latino actor in a notable role is a good start.

    This. I whole-heartedly approve having a Latino actor here, one who appears particularly Ibero-Indo-American (I have no clue about Pascal’s ethnic mix, but it’s what he looks like to me). Since I’ve always pictured Dorne as somewhat Andalusian, it speaks well toward Nina Gold’s intent for the Dornish cast.

  92. Anna
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    His skin is too pale. I’d prefer an actor who fitted better the “latino” stereotype. But I’m expecting great acting skills, at least.

  93. Lollius Palicanus
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    Same here. And we all know Captain Malcolm Reynolds (or Captain Hammer) would be a great Red Viper ;-)

  94. voicareason
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    HalfWarg,

    Yeah, because you know, other actors with minor credits like Michelle Fairley, Jack Gleeson and Maisie Williams turned out so badly. Give the guy a chance.
    Also, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, terrible??? Arm yourself ser!

  95. Javi Marcos
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    I love that he doesn’t look like a moor. Dorne should have racial diversity, Salty, Sandy and Stone Dornishmen, not only Sandy/Moor alike Dornish.

  96. AA
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    JR,

    Why would the show be skimping for money? They just killed off 4 main cast members, will kill off at least 4 more this coming season, and Oberyn only needs to last one season. Add that to the fact that the show is still growing in popularity, so their budget is likely increasing, so I don’t think they are making major casting decisions based on money…at all.

  97. Selmy
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    JR,

    What you think has little and less to do with it.
    I could say “I think he was cast because he sent D&D’s mother’s a lovely hamper of mini muffins.”

    The point is – you’ve seen one picture of the dude and you’ve made up your mind. Wait until you see him in the role on your television screen and then you can judge away.
    Nina Gold has earned our trust damn it!

  98. cozmeesah
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Some of you people are ridiculous. Firstly, the Martells are light-skinned and olive-toned (which this guy is.) They’re not Naveen Andrews or darker. Secondly, all of a sudden a Latino doesn’t qualify as a POC? Chilean isn’t diverse *enough* for you? I wasn’t aware that diversity counted only when people are really dark-skinned.

    Thirdly, EVERY single other role has been cast perfectly and yet you all STILL think he will suck acting-wise, even when we weren’t there for his audition and have not one iota of a clue about how he played it. Obviously Nina, D&D, who are batting 1.000 as far as casting goes so far, saw it in him.

    Is it physically impossible for those of you who are complaining to have an open mind about anything? Can’t you at least use the “wait and see” approach that many others in here are mature enough to do? It’d probably be a lot easier and less stressful to get through life that way. Not to mention making it a lot less irritating in here.

  99. NYurac
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Carlos Ubilla,

    VIVA CHILE CONCHETUMADRE!

  100. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    I don’t get the obsession with casting names. ‘Downton Abbey gets Paul Giamatti!’ Downton Abbey has sucked for the last two seasons, names or not. GoT is a much more expensive show to make and there is a lot of talent out there. Makes more sense to spend their money on dragons and ships, and to not waste money on overpriced movie stars.

  101. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    Yes, because Dianna Rigg was just aweful. Dan Hildebrand too. All I have to say is that people were pissed when Nicolaj was cast as Jaime. They were upset when Mark Addy was cast as Robert. They hated Stephen Dillane as Stannis. Michelle Fairley was too old to play Catelyn. Yada yada yada! How about you wait to see how he does in the role and in the setting? D&D said it was a difficult and exhaustive process searching for the right actor in this role. I think they did their hard work on this and feel they have the right guy.

  102. Nerd
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Deadline just posted a big interview w/ D&D about the Emmys

    http://www.deadline.com/2013/06/emmy-q-a-with-game-of-thrones-david-benioff-and-d-b-weiss/

  103. Josh Parker
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Lyanna_Targaryen,

    This is the attitude we should all have by now.

  104. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Nina Gold isn’t a god she’s made some bad decisions when it comes to casting, Yara/Asha and Meera come to mind.

  105. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    Also, please keep the conversation civil, people. No name-calling or personal attacks or your post will be deleted.

  106. voicareason
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    DAME DIANA RIGG.

  107. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    HURRAH FOR A MORE SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE PHOTO OF THE RED VIPER IN THE POST!! THREE CHEERS FOR WINTER!!

  108. Selmy
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    Diana Rigg as Lady Olenna… Clive Russel as the Blackfish… did you see season 3?

  109. May Hadfield
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    I dont care about his lack of acting credits, he just looks wrong. It’s only my opinion, but its mine and and I’ll keep it.
    I was expecting more Middle eastern or Indian, instead I got a white guy with dark eyes and hair. And he has no pointy-ness either.
    You cant tell me there are no decent middle eastern actors that aren’t well known. Or heck its not exactly a huge part, use a well known actor…
    But whatever. My ranting is not going to affect anything, I just needed to vent.

  110. Lord of Fangs
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    Cool! I see it.

    At first very quick glance I thought it was Corey Feldman…I almost shit myself.

  111. Arthur
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    I’m going to withhold all judgement until I can research this guy tonight after work…

  112. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    voicareason,

    Eh she’s ok nothing special.

  113. Winter Is Coming
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    Rhaelle:
    On first glance I was screaming NOOOOOO, but this isn’t a good pic. I can see him pull off Red Viper perfectly. He’s got those big dark eyes and looks quite attractive in most of his other pics :)

    Changed the pic to something more Red Viper-ish (and more attractive or so I’ve been told).

  114. Ser Bro
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    I don’t get the obsession with casting names. ‘Downton Abbey gets Paul Giamatti!’ Downton Abbey has sucked for the last two seasons, names or not. GoT is a much more expensive show to make and there is a lot of talent out there. Makes more sense to spend their money on dragons and ships, and to not waste money on overpriced movie stars.

    Facts on facts on facts. People saying things like “Seazon 3 suxxxx” and “Nina Gold has lost her touch” are bananas. The producers know what they are doing. It’s not like they threw on an episode of Nikita and said “We found him!”. Multiple auditions. Probably consulted with GRRM himself. It’s not like they’re handing out these roles to anyone.

  115. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    Selmy,

    Clive Russel is awful, he’s not a good actor at all. The guy use to be in Coronation Street.

  116. darquemode
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    I can understand some people’s disappointment on one level.
    I ,like many people, was hoping the casting choice for such an awesome role would rock me ad excite me. This casting choice did not… even if I have no issues with it.

    I am not disappointed outside of that rationale though honestly.
    The actor has a good (not great) look for the role and can play a role with swagger from the few roles I have seen him play.

  117. Bran The Builder
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    So… Martells are Hispanic. Wonder what GRRM has to say about that.

  118. caroh
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    Yay the red viper! I was surprised cause I was expecting a big star or something to play him, but since I haven’t seen him in any of his previous roles I will have to wait and see and trust in Nina gold.
    He will hopefully be great (:

  119. Dolorous Ned
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqgACO8OZKY&feature=player_detailpage#t=57s

    Just found a clip of Pedro Pascal in “Nikita”

    “You’re arrogant” – “Often arrogant, never wrong”
    Maybe there’s a hint of the Viper in there, underneath the generic villain

  120. Lex
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    And here come the morons.

  121. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    Well, that’s just, like, your opinion, man. I happen to love Gemma Whelan as Asha/Yara. But because she’s not a sex goddess that most fanboys picture every female character as, she is somehow ‘wrong’ for the role. Lena Headey has been great, but people still don’t like her because she’s “not hot enough” to play Cersei. When you make a statement like “Season 4 is now ruined” because of this casting news then I question your judgement.

  122. Lex
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Dolorous Ned:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqgACO8OZKY&feature=player_detailpage#t=57s

    Just found a clip of Pedro Pascal in “Nikita”

    He IS the Latino Nathan Fillion!

  123. Selmy
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    He is a great actor. He was perfect as the Blackfish. (I’m not sure why the writer’s made him so angry at Edmure all the time though).

    And he was in Spaced! One of the best comedies of all time!

  124. Isabelle
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    Woo hoo! We have Oberyn!!! Can’t wait to see Pascal in action!

  125. cozmeesah
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    Latino ≠ white. People don’t have to look Moorish to be a POC. Again, it never says the Martells look Middle Eastern/Indian. Not Nina or D&D’s fault if you all couldn’t pick that up when you read.

  126. Josh Parker
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    I think Al Swearengen and JR are teenagers.

    The remind me of David Tennant fangirls who were so against the idea of ANYONE but their beloved David playing the Doctor that they immediately began to say that Matt Smith was a terrible choice WELL BEFORE they saw him in the role.

    We now know that Matt Smith is an awesome Doctor and if anything, has surpassed Tennant.

  127. natehilk
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    Is it just me or does the new pic up there make him look like Chilean Jeremy Renner?

  128. sati
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen:
    Grumpy Cat face !!!

    Not happy about this at all, there goes my excitement for season 4.

    Overdramatic much?

  129. cozmeesah
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    Bran The Builder:
    So… Martells are Hispanic. Wonder what GRRM has to say about that.

    He’d say “I already knew that, as that is what I wrote.”

  130. Arthur
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    Can people please start linking youtube videos of his acting?

    I can’t find anything…

  131. Mister Stoneheart
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    Wow, I have seen clips of this guy’s acting and it is generally low-key bad. I’d like to have some faith in this casting, but we’ll see.

  132. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    Are there any clips where he speaks with an accent? In that Nikita clip he sounded American.

  133. JR
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    AA,

    The budget has increased but it’s still a very expensive show. There’s still a limit to how much they can spend. I’m sure the main stars like Peter dinklage will want raises soon too. Also, Cirian Hinds was barely in Season 3 and that’s mostly because of money. He’ll be featured more next year and as a result other new actors will have to come cheaper.

  134. john
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    In Nina Gold we trust…

    All the racists hating on this guy for being “too white” can f**k off.

  135. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    cozmeesah,

    He did an interview with a Spanish journalist last year where I believe he mentioned that Spain may be analogous to Dorne.

  136. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    Lyanna_Targaryen:
    To fill the void between the end of the season and the beginning of casting and production news, I’ve been going way, way back in the archives and reading this site from the beginning (I’ve only been reading about a year). It is fascinating stuff.

    Each casting announcement had more than it’s fair share of hand wringing, teeth gnashing, and“NO ONE UNDERSTANDS!!!!!”. With nearly every single character (Tyrion and Tywin were almost universally accepted off the bat, but, I digress).

    And guess what? They all blew us away. I cannot imagine anyone but Emilia Clarke as Dany, Michelle Fairely as Catelyn, Mark Addy as Robert, etc. Not a single actor in the cast has disappointed me in their portrayal of their respective characters (except The Mountain #2 because CONAN).

    In Nina Gold I trust. In D&D I trust.

    Let the actor (and the makeup team, and the costume designers) show us what they can do before leaping to judgement.

    Dead on!!! There’s complaining on the board when they cast Kristian Nairn as Hodor!!! I mean, REALLY??!!?!?!? So yes — let’s all get ourselves all worried and then relax when he turns out – like every other decision with casting – to be awesome. (Again, Ciaran Hinds is a bit of a distinction b/c he was more of a “name.” But I like him just fine anyway.)

    He’ll be great. He’s got an interesting look. And I’m imagining he won’t look nearly so clean-cut when he finally graces the screen.

  137. The Dragon Demands
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    My reaction to this news is ambivalent.

    I was expecting Dornishmen to be non-white, Mediterranean-ish actors.

    Then again they *did* cast a Chilean actor, and he isn’t flagrantly blonde haired and blue eyed. He isn’t *that* different from the Oberyn we’ve seen depicted in artwork and such, maybe he’ll look better in costume.

  138. SerCountryFriedSteak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Lyanna_Targaryen: In Nina Gold I trust.

    In Nina We Trust: *cough* Sibel Kekilli *cough* *Kit Harrington* *cough* *poor kid who played the Stable Boy*

    :)

  139. Josh Parker
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    cozmeesah,

    Exactly. When I read his description of the Dornish, they sounded VERY Mediterranean to me. I don’t understand why so many were under the totally false impression that they’re supposed to look East Indian, African, etc.

    What’s especially surprising is how many people wanted to see Oded Fehr (Arabic but looks competely white) or James Purefoy (Caucasian) and yet call this guy (who is Latino and looks it) “too white”.

  140. Ben
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    Al Swearengen:
    Downtown Abbey gets Paul Giamatti and we get some obscure actor from Chili. Nina Gold has lost her touch, she’s not made a great casting decision since S2.

    Diana Rigg as Lady Olenna? Iwan Rheon as Ramsay Snow?

  141. MyBFFTheHound
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    Lol @ the latino Nathan Fillion.

  142. Richard Weetabix
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    So much for your judgment of actors.

  143. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    I think the picture from the ‘EW.com’ headline is the best: http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/06/28/thrones-red-viper-oberyn/

    He looks a bit like Olivier Martinez in that picture.

  144. NewJeffCT
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    There were complaints about Kristian Nairn? What? He didn’t have the range to play Hodor?

  145. Cary Storm
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    Does this mean we can now cast Selma Hayek as Ellaria Sand?

  146. Drunken Fool
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    This is awesome!!!

  147. Selmy
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    SerCountryFriedSteak,

    Charles Dance, Peter Dinklage, Nikolaj, Jack Gleeson, Michelle Fairley… the list goes on

  148. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    Ben,

    Yeah, Al is prone to hyperbole, it seems.

  149. voicareason
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    Half the actors in Britain were in a soap at one point in there careers. It’s a great starting point, or a steady job. I don’t see the issue.
    Case in point, Ben Kingsley was on coronation street for one of his first roles.

  150. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

    Josh Parker:
    I don’t get how there’s so much negativity after all we’ve seen on the show. At this point we should all be understanding that they’re following the major plotlines from the books but taking alternate routes to get there, including alternate interpretations of characters. I have yet to finish a season of GoT and think “This show is starting to suck”.

    Faithfulness to the book =/= quality.
    Lack of word-for-word faithfulness =/= lack of quality.
    An actor who looks different from how you personally pictured a character =/= the wrong choice.
    An actor you’ve never heard of =/= no acting talent and/or a guy they signed because he came cheap.

    THIS. After 3 seasons of putting together a murderer’s row in terms of casting, doing some amazing adaptation, inventing great scenes, doing everything to make this show the biggest in HBO history other than, y’know, The Sopranos, these folks deserve a little bit of the benefit of the doubt.

  151. Macha
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    I predict good casting. I also predict Danny Trejo as Doran. Calling it now. ;-)

  152. Cary Storm
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    Selena Gomez as Arianne Martell

  153. A Stark
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbwroS0YP54

    Everyone has bad videos out there.

  154. JR
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    Josh Parker,

    Not a teenager and certainly would never watch Dr. Who. Im am American and we have plenty of great options here like Justified & Breaking Bad instead of watching a silly show like Dr. Who. I’ve watched Deadwood, the Wire, & the Sopranos and I guess I have a much higher bar than you.

  155. Ghost
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    I’ve never seen him in anything before, but going on looks alone, I can see it. Add a wig or maybe his hair is already longer and I think its a good fit.

  156. Dan Spicer
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    I always pictured an Antonio Banderas look to Oberyn while reading, so this actor “looks” OK to me.

  157. Cary Storm
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm:
    Does this mean we can now cast Selma Hayek as Ellaria Sand?

    I’ve decided Sofia Vergara will make a much better Ellaria.

  158. outdoorcats
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    Whoa…

    Anyhow. I’m looking at him, and getting used to it. He’s actually not a bad look for The Red Viper at all, although it looks like they’re going for a ‘Spanish’ look rather than the ‘Middle Eastern’ one I pictured. But maybe not – just because the actor is Chilean doesn’t mean he couldn’t play a few different races, actually. So the final verdict on Nina Gold’s opinion of the race of the Martells…inconclusive. I think we’ll have to wait another year to see the casting of Prince Doran, Arianne, the Sand Snakes, etc, to see if they were listening to our calls for more color in the cast.

    And whatever race they go for, I have confidence that this guy will make a fantastic Red Viper.

  159. sati
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    SerCountryFriedSteak: In Nina We Trust: *cough* Sibel Kekilli *cough* *Kit Harrington* *cough* *poor kid who played the Stable Boy*

    :)

    Careful, complaining about Sibel usually leads to a bunch of hysterical posters saying how she won some awards in Germany. Not that it’s relevant to how atrocious she is on GoT, obviously.

  160. zambi76
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    OMFG TOO WHITE!11!

    More seriously: OMFG TOO YOUNG!

    That was actually the thing that threw me even more. He looks like a baby to me. That it’s not a big name doesn’t surprose me at all. Since this is HBO I think a m/m scene might be in Oberyns future and I guess not many big names would go for that still, unfortunately.

  161. darquemode
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    Ha , I like this photo of him wit drink in hand.
    Plus he actually looks olive skinned in it.

  162. Kate
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    Hoping to see latin actors for Dorne, fuck yeah!!

  163. DocFilth
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    Macha:
    I predict good casting. I also predict Danny Trejo as Doran. Calling it now.;-)

    Funnily enough, I was thinking of Trejo for Areo. Edward James Olmos for Doran, perhaps?

  164. Ren Snow
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    ebevan91:
    Hodor

    Ok now that I’ve gotten that out of the way, I checked the guy’s resume on IMDB. He’s been in a lot of stuff.

    Graceland
    Red Widow
    Nikita
    The Sixth Gun
    CSI: Crime Scene Investigation
    Body of Proof
    Charlie’s Angels (the new one)
    Law and Order SVU
    Burn Notice
    The Good Wife
    Law and Order: Criminal Intent
    Law and Order
    Without a Trace
    NYPD Blue
    Buffy the Vampire Slayer

    Wait… Buffy? I don’t remember him

  165. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Ben:
    Al Swearengen,

    Diana Rigg as Lady Olenna? Iwan Rheon as Ramsay Snow?

    I’ll keep going. Dan Hildebrand as Kraznys? Kerry Ingram as Shireen? (OMG she’s so adorable). The two ‘schmuck with earflap’ guys they cast as Black Walder and Lame Lothar? Mackensie Crook as Orell?

  166. what rough beast
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    In the Entertainment Weekly pic I can totally see Oberyn in him, in the one posted here not so much. Right now he has the benefit of the doubt, and who knows, maybe he turns out awesome.

  167. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    He’s Latino, which I think is how many people interpreted the Martells. I don’t think painting him darker would be wise. He looks fine the way he is. I’ll check him out a bit more but I’m optimistic. They don’t need a big expensive name for Oberyn.

    Lol again with the latino thing….a Latino is a mix of white european with central/south american aborigen, dornishmen are a mix of white european and moor/arabic/bereber, maybe indian, but never american…

    Spanish people are NOT latinos, speaking spanish doesn’t make you latino ;)

    He looks like a dornishman though, but of the “spanish” looking ones…they couldn’t have gone with a “whiter” look…Natalia or Oona look more the part ;)

  168. Reinier
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    http://www.magweb.com/picts/actor/69061/pedro_pascal.jpg

    In this picture of him I can really see a Red Viper underneath!

  169. Nerd
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    Wow that updated pic makes a big difference.

    I VOTE FOR PEDRO

  170. Cary Storm
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    DocFilth: Funnily enough, I was thinking of Trejo for Areo. Edward James Olmos for Doran, perhaps?

    Edward James Olmos would make a fantastic Doran. Isn’t Areo Hotah quite white?

  171. zaprowsdower
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    Seriously! I was very pleased.

  172. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    NewJeffCT,

    Yeah, go back to that board, there’s at least a couple saying he’s “not what I pictured.”

  173. SuperMax
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    From the Vimeo link posted which shows off Pedro Pascal’s acting abilities, I’m worried that Oberyn may come off as too feminine. The Red Viper character definitely plays with gender norms, with his sexuality and his education of the Sand Snakes, but there was never a doubt in my mind that he was very blatantly masculine, even to the point of showing off his masculinity. The video at http://vimeo.com/18945174 depicts a very feminine-sounding and -acting character, and while I am not sure of the source he was reading from, it makes me worried that Oberyn’s character may be taken in a different direction.

  174. A Stark
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

    However he looks, I’m just curious to see if the guys can pull off the mountain fight as good as this comic.

    http://mccomseycomix.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/the-red-viper-vs-the-mountain-that-rides-a-12-page-comic/

  175. TheHedgeWizard
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

    Can’t judge the guy till i see him in the entire Oberyn Martell Get up. Had my hopes on Amr Waked but we shall see. I have to put my trust in the showrunners that he will be a great Red Viper, i hope so.

  176. Josh Parker
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    JR,

    Nice.

    And now I’m done replying to you because it’s turning into mud-slinging and I’m a bigger person than that.

  177. caroh
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    Maybe they could cast Barbara Mori now as one of the sand snakes or as Arianne or even ellaria

  178. Dylan
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    I saw him in the Burn Notice: Sam Axe TV movie. He was the bad guy but, before his intentions were revealed he did get to show off some range. I think this guy can do the role well, after seeing burn notice I am assured that the mountain vs the viper is gonna be kick ass.

  179. Eljuma
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    The poor guy. He just signed in for 9+ months of getting bashed full time by retards.

  180. Sara
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    There are a lot of white latin@s, though, especially in South America. And this guy is definitely white, or at the very least, he’s a white-passing person of color.

  181. Galen Firestone
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    I saw him in a couple episodes of Graceland… I didn’t think anything negative about him, but I don’t know, he just feels wrong to me. I remember someone a while back mentioned Naveen Andrews as a hypothetical possibility, and I can’t help but think that he would be a stronger choice than an LA-based actor like Pedro.

    Then again, Nina Gold hasn’t let us down so far, so I’m going to put this one firmly in the “wait and see” category.

  182. Jon Blackfyre
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    I’ve been watching graceland. Hes pretty goof in that

  183. talbb123
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    I’m I the only one who read this?

    BENIOFF: “And for us what is most enticing about this series, is, if we’re lucky enough to get to the end, there will be 80 hours of screen time with a beginning, middle, and a real end. Not something that feels like 80 separate episodes, but instead something where, if you were masochistic enough, you could go into a theater and watch a marathon of the whole thing.”

    80 hours of screen time? Does that mean they plan 8 seasons… def seems like it.
    The quote is from this interview: http://www.deadline.com/2013/06/emmy-q-a-with-game-of-thrones-david-benioff-and-d-b-weiss/

  184. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    Pau Soriano,

    Dornishmen are Dornishmen. There is no one-to-one real world comparison for ASOIAF cultures, as GRRM has said many times. So say what you will, but many readers did envision the Martells as what we call Latino and as cast with Latino actors. And the role has now been cast with a Latino actor. And I’m well aware that speaking Spanish doesn’t make someone Latino. So spare me your condescending lols and lectures.

  185. Lex
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Eljuma:
    The poor guy. He just signed in for 9+ months of getting bashed full time by retards.

    +1

  186. DocFilth
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm,

    He is, but so was Salladhor Saan in the books, so I don’t think they mind what they do with the ethnicity of Free Cities natives. Plus, if you’re casting “Badass bodyguard to a Latino-type leader”, wouldn’t Danny Trejo be top of the list?

  187. Tar Kidho
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    Based on the picture, I was expecting more excitement to be honest, not all this he’s-not-like-I-pictured-him BS…

    Personally, my first thought was that I can totally see the deadly charisma of the Viper in the picture at the top. A second thought was that he looks a bit younger than I expected, but having watched the first three seasons, I am not at all worried since D&D and Nina Gold have proven time and time again to pick great actors for each role. Really people, try to be a bit more enthusiastic, I’m sure one year from now we’ll all be saying what a great casting that was!

  188. axia777
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    haltwhogoesthere: There are people who are entirely different when they slip into character. I will reserve judgement. Honestly if I’d seen half of the cast before I saw them playing their characters, I would have thought they looked terrible for the part. Weren’t there people who thought Robert would be bad? I didn’t watch the show at that time, so I don’t know.But his personality was spot on. And the casting has been solid in this show, so I will trust them.

    I guess they can make him sit in a tanning bed for a few weeks. That way he will be brown as nut. I also trust their pick 100%. I just wanted some more wolfish looking and not so soft in the face.

    At least we know that the Viper is in. That alone makes it all worth it!

    BTW, I never had a doubt about Mark Addy. I always thought he was good pick.

  189. Lex
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Sara:
    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    he’s a white-passing person of color.

    LOL! This debate is getting stupider by the second.

  190. SerCountryFriedSteak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Has anyone found a good video of his acting? I’m “sure” that his acting is great, but is it okay if I see some great acting rather than this stuff we’ve seen so far.

    And it reads everywhere “Chilean actor” but his IMDB page looks like nothing but American productions. Are we sure this guy wasn’t born in Indianapolis?

    Nothing against him, he might be the best Red Viper ever… but I guess I’m in wait & see mode. If that’s okay with the “Everything is Awesome, how dare you question it” crowd :)

  191. King Tommen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    The comments in this thread are all I expected and more…

    Add “I don’t know who this guy is so he must suck” to the list of classic reactions. I forgot about that one.

    I would have assumed by this point that as soon as we see a relatively unknown actor cast in a semi-major role, that we’d be able to make the leap to “next breakout star on the show” since that’s what’s happened in almost every instance of casting on GoT. Guess some people still like to have selective memory and be proven wrong in due course.

  192. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    SuperMax,

    That video appears to be 2 years old and not exactly related to Game of Thrones. Good lord, the handwringing.

  193. Carnifex2005
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    outdoorcats:
    Whoa…

    Anyhow. I’m looking at him, and getting used to it. He’s actually not a bad look for The Red Viper at all, although it looks like they’re going for a ‘Spanish’ look rather than the ‘Middle Eastern’ one I pictured. But maybe not – just because the actor is Chilean doesn’t mean he couldn’t play a few different races, actually. So the final verdict on Nina Gold’s opinion of the race of the Martells…inconclusive. I think we’ll have to wait another year to see the casting of Prince Doran, Arianne, the Sand Snakes, etc, to see if they were listening to our calls for more color in the cast.

    And whatever race they go for, I have confidence that this guy will make a fantastic Red Viper.

    Don’t know what people were expecting. The Martells and Dorne were always equivalent to the Spanish when under Moorish rule. I expected them to look Spanish with a slight tan.

  194. Gonfaloniere
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    What’s especially surprising is how many people wanted to see Oded Fehr (Arabic but looks competely white) or James Purefoy (Caucasian) and yet call this guy (who is Latino and looks it) “too white”.

    Oded Fehr is actually Israeli, not Arab, and he is of German and Dutch Jewish descent, so yes, totally white, not in the least bit a person of color (and by the way, given all the invasions of the Middle East, neither would everyone who is Arab pass this requirement of not looking “too white” – I have a Palestinian friend who is blonde haired and blue-eyed.)

    I think I am in the absolute minority in fandom in thinking Oberyn is a bit of an ass anyway (like seriously, dude, make sure the guy you kill is really dead and THEN do the taunting and I am far more interested in who they cast for Doran – and think they should save their money for a character who will last more than a few episodes in one season.)

    And I cannot help but be reminded of the outcry when NCW was cast as Jaime (e.g. one comment from back then: “Most worried about NCW as Jaime. I don’t think he is all that good as an actor, seems to have a touch of death for shows and doesnt look like my head Jaime thanks to that nose, which is bad of me and all that, but meh.”) Heh! I think we can safely say that casting was a win for the show, eh?

  195. Rhaelle
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    thanks :) this is much better!

  196. Mike
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    Clearly people are over-thinking things. How ’bout you just watch the show, if the actor does well in his or her role, then awesome! When I watch it, I’m not humming on saying “Oh well, this person should be black, and this person should be etc..” All these choices I’d imagine have to get at least some input from GRRM. So.. what does that tell you? Too many people hung up on trivial details, or just plain want to nit pick about everything..

  197. LittleCatPaws
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    I’m happy with the choice, I imagine he will look fantastic in costume. Westeros is obviously very much like Europe, and I imagined Dorne being something like Spain with the mix of cultures that have influenced it, so yeah, very pleased here.

  198. axia777
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    Ok, the new pic they has posted a the top of the article makes the dude look WAY more like the Red Viper in my head. He does brown up nicely. MORE BROWN PLEASE.

  199. B Cogman
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    Wow.

  200. MyBFFTheHound
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    YES VOTE FOR PEDRO!

  201. Douglas
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    Does anyone know his age?

  202. GeekFurious
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    Some of you have weird expectations.

  203. darquemode
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    SerCountryFriedSteak,

    When I was looking for his age I thnk I read somewhere his parents escaped from Chile to the US in the 70s, so he was raised in the US I assume.

  204. Zack
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    How tall is he?

    That pic doesn’t exactly scream the Viper to me, but going off one publicity photo is the dumbest thing to do.

    I’ve just been hoping this whole time they don’t go for standard British looking dudes like 99% of the rest of the cast. First test, passed.

  205. Bgap
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    Season 4, episode 1. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0533498/

    Ren Snow: Wait… Buffy? I don’t remember him

  206. sati
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    Eljuma:
    The poor guy. He just signed in for 9+ months of getting bashed full time by retards.

    Yep. Already happening :/

  207. darquemode
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    Douglas,

    I was wondering too!
    I could not find his age and spent a while looking.

  208. Vikestad
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    This old gag. If you can’t be sensible, go to westeros.org where you belong.

  209. Cary Storm
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    DocFilth:
    Cary Storm,

    He is, but so was Salladhor Saan in the books, so I don’t think they mind what they do with the ethnicity of Free Cities natives. Plus, if you’re casting “Badass bodyguard to a Latino-type leader”, wouldn’t Danny Trejo be top of the list?

    Well, let’s just put Idris Elba in Areo Hotah’s role :-P

  210. Bard
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    Lex: LOL! This debate is getting stupider by the second.

    So he is a WPOC. A “white person of color”. ;)

  211. Lex
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    B Cogman:
    Wow.

    LOL! I apologize on behalf of the fandom.

  212. Bowl Of Brown Chef
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    Just had a thought.

    GRRM mentioned he thought Janina Gavankar from True Blood was exactly how he pictured Arianne Martel.

    Her character left True Blood this season, so Im wondering if she’ll be cast?

    She has HBO pedigree, the looks, and is conveniently available.

    Wonder if more Dornish show up in S4

  213. axia777
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm: Well, let’s just put Idris Elba in Areo Hotah’s role :-P

    Great idea but it would cost too much cash for HBO to pony up. But I would be down for that in one billionth of a second.

  214. Selmy
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    B Cogman,

    Is this your reaction to fan reaction B ?

  215. axia777
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    Bowl Of Brown Chef:
    Just had a thought.

    GRRM mentioned he thought Janina Gavankar from True Blood was exactly how he pictured Arianne Martel.

    Her character left True Blood this season, so Im wondering if she’ll be cast?

    She has HBO pedigree, the looks, and is conveniently available.

    Wonder if more Dornish show up in S4

    OH HELLS YES!!!! O_O Please let that be true.

  216. Nick
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    I’m not familiar with him or his work, so I can’t comment on how well he’ll perform the role. I trust Nina Gold, Benioff & Weiss, and others, who have done a stellar job on casting so far, even when I doubted them before.

    However, the showrunners are missing an opportunity to introduce a new culture here. I would strongly have preferred that they go with South Indian, or North African/Middle Eastern actors and actresses for the Dornish. I would at least like to hear some plausible explanation for why this was logistically too difficult or something. The show is painfully white, with minorities disproportionately represented as villainous or savage. I was just apologizing for and rationalizing this to someone the other day and now I want to take it back.

  217. Cary Storm
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    Josh Parker,

    I really think there’s no call to call someone a “teenager” (and I’m not sure the point behind that anyway, since teenagers can be very good participants anyway). Someone is upset that the casting choice of one of their favorite characters is completely different than they expected. They reacted. There’s no call for the awful pile-on that’s going on here.

  218. darquemode
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:57 pm | Permalink
  219. zambi76
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    Now see what you have done fandom. You scared the Cogman.

    (probably not much though)

    (ETA: When I made the baby joke, I meant baby as in probably my age i.e. born in/around 1976)

  220. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

    darquemode,

    If I had to guess, I would say he is in his late thirties, possibly early 40′s. I know he looks younger, but I think he can pass as 40, which is old enough to have adult children.

  221. el
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    I think he is perfect! I don’t know why the incessant bitching on these GoT forums still surprise me. I’m excited for season 4!

  222. DocFilth
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm,

    Machete vs Stringer Bell? I know where my money would be…

  223. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    He also seems to be more American than Chilean, which means he is only the 3rd American actor on the show. I’m really interested on what accent the show will have him use. Will he sound more British or will they give him and the Martells/Dornish Spanish accents?

  224. GG
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    A lot of fanboy feelings on the TV adaption as a whole are gonna be decided based on how this plays out. No pressure, Pedro.

  225. darquemode
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    That’s what I am guessing too, but I he no idea. Some people look so much younger or older than they are.

    Oberyn in the books is like 42 if I recall. I expected them to cast an actor in mid to late 40s since they age most roles up.

    I’m curious, not critical tough honestly.

  226. Oi!
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    Love the casting i’m confident the guy will nail the role.

  227. Lex
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    Is ANYONE surprised at this embarrassing reaction? Not me. My first hint was the 500+ comments in the “Importance of Dorne” thread. No matter how the Dornish are cast, this was guaranteed to be a shit show. This is only the beginning.

  228. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    5 points for anyone that can find video of him speaking with a Spanish accent.

  229. zambi76
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    Gonfaloniere: I think I am in the absolute minority in fandom in thinking Oberyn is a bit of an ass anyway

    Oh thank you, I though I was the only one. He is a total asshole that Dornish Prince, badass or not. How he treated that whore who bore him his first (?) Sandsanke. Boooo!

  230. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    I am just disappointed I expected a more bold casting choice than this. The Red Viper is my favorite character in the whole series so I was bound to be disappointed with their choice but this really wasn’t what I pictured at all, he’s much younger and not as handsome as I thought the character would be.

    Oded Fehr was my choice but I knew there was a slim chance they’d consider him. I would have been fine with Alexander Siddig though.

    We’ll see I’ll try to give him a chance but between Pedro and Ian Whyte I doubt that special moment from ASOS is going to live up to my expectations.

  231. Lyanna_Targaryen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Back to add that the newer picture is a better one!

    I vote for Pedro!

  232. darquemode
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    We think alike I guess… I was wondering that too!

    I have seen him in 7-9 roles I guess and never heard a British accent that I recall. Of course that does not mean he is incapable of doing a good British accent! It would be interesting if they cast North/ Central/ South Americans for Dornishmen.
    My guess is it just a one off, but we will see.

  233. I won da GwD pubquiz
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    http://www.deadline.com/2013/06/emmy-q-a-with-game-of-thrones-david-benioff-and-d-b-weiss/

    “If we are lucky enough to get to the end, there will be 80 hours of screen time…”

    “OMG D&D CAN’T BE PLANNING ON 8 SEASONS!!” o rly? :P

  234. Lyanna_Targaryen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    B Cogman,

    Another apology on behalf of the knee jerks, Mr. Cogman. I’m seriously thinking of having my next embroidery project being a small framed sampler piece that reads “Don’t read the comments”.

  235. Ser Endrew Tarth
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    I do not doubt that this guy could pull off an Oberyn…

    The real question is will the writers drop the ball w/ his character, or almagamate him w/ characters they had to cut? Like they have w/ Mance and Thoros respectively…

    I for one will sorely miss the scene where Tyrion and Pod greet the Dornish retinue if it is cut. The back and forth between Oberyn and Tyrion is amazing and gives some great exposition on Tyrion’s birth.

  236. Oi!
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    “Slap” a beard on him to age him up, put him in some conquistador-ish armor and boom Red Viper.

  237. Fire And Blood
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Nick:
    However, the showrunners are missing an opportunity to introduce a new culture here. I would strongly have preferred that they go with South Indian, or North African/Middle Eastern actors and actresses for the Dornish. I would at least like to hear some plausible explanation for why this was logistically too difficult or something. The show is painfully white, with minorities disproportionately represented as villainous or savage. I was just apologizing for and rationalizing this to someone the other day and now I want to take it back.

    “New culture?” I’m sorry, I seem to have missed all the other Latin/Hispanic-inspired cultures on Game of Thrones. Please point them out to us.

  238. rorschach-
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    Skimming through the comments until suddenly B Cogman says “Wow” and Lex apologises behalf the fandom…. ok, imma gonna skip all the comments.

    Just saying that I think he looks good and I approve, even though I have never seen or noticed him anywhere. In Gold we trust.

  239. Fire And Blood
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    For the record, I love this choice. I’m totally voting for Pedro.

    Time to start the “Please cast Edward James Olmos as Prince Doran Martell” groundwork!

    (I’m totally curious what accent they’ll have him use. Standard Hollywood Hispanic? Something with a slightly British lilt? We shall see!)

  240. Alen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    I’m satisfied with his looks. I haven’t seen him in anything so I can’t comment on his acting, but I trust D&D and Nina so I’m sure he’ll be great. I’m actually glad they chose an unknown actor for this role.
    “The boys love him, the girls love him, and he loves them all back. ” This makes me really happy!

  241. Lex
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Fire And Blood: “New culture?” I’m sorry, I seem to have missed all the other Latin/Hispanic cultures on Game of Thrones. Please point them out to us.

    Exactly. We’ve already seen some Arabic/Middle Eastern actors across the Narrow Sea. I don’t care much either way about the whole ethnicity debate, but I think a hispanic Dorne is a great choice.

  242. Adam 2nd of his name
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    Anyone else see a young Liam Neeson in this guy? No one? Just me? Ok.

  243. KingNed
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    Casting has been mostly amazing great choices for guys like Littlefinger, The Spider and the Hound but theyve had more than a few misses. Yara , Mance and Daario were preety bad , no charisma at all so im a bit worried about this Viper since he has some amazing scenes aheah of him but im rooting for him! A good Viper is crucial for a strong season 4.

  244. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    B Cogman: Wow.

    Awww come on, Cogman, this comment thread isn’t that bad. Very much looking forward to seeing how Dorne is presented, as far as accent, culture and costuming.

    (I am very amused btw that Eddie from that episode of Buffy is the Red Viper of Dorne.)

  245. KingNed
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

    Casting has been mostly amazing great choices for guys like Littlefinger, The Spider and the Hound but they had more than a few misses. Yara , Mance and Daario were preety bad , no charisma at all so im a bit worried about this Viper since he has some amazing scenes aheah of him but im rooting for him! A good Viper is crucial for a strong season 4.

  246. mariamb18
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm,
    Agree completely with your statement. Well-said.

    I think that he has a great look in the photo above – maybe a bit younger than I imagined but that’s unimportant. This is a much better than the one on the EW site; perhaps that’s what is generating so much of the negative response.

    I don’t think that the actor playing the Red Viper had to be a big star. It seems to be a perfect role for a lesser-known actor. And since I’m not familar with his roles, I look forward to seeing what he will do. I trust Nina Gold because I think that the casting choices have been close to perfect.

    Ser Endrew Tarth: I for one will sorely miss the scene where Tyrion and Pod greet the Dornish retinue if it is cut. The back and forth between Oberyn and Tyrion is amazing and gives some great exposition on Tyrion’s birth.

    This is one of my favorite scenes in the books. I hope it stays in. Let’s not assume the worst.

  247. Kingslayer
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    I hope all you people complaining just stop watching the show and commenting on here all together. You guys are annoying. Always wanting everything to be EXACTLY like you want it to be.

    I think he looks the part and I’m sure he’ll do great.

  248. Turncloak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    :) Good casting. I’m glad the crew wasn’t concerned about casting a lighter skinned actor. As long as as he performs, it will be an excellent casting choice

  249. Halie
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    I always pictured the people from Dorne as similar to the current inhabitants of the Iberian Peninsula; people of differing skin colors, having been descended from many different cultures throughout history. That said, I also pictured the Red Viper as being darker skinned and older in appearance than how the actor looks in the photo. I’ll wait until the show airs, though, before I judge how well the role was cast. Sometimes the show’s castings wildly vary from how the characters look in my minds eye, but the skills of the actors overcome my doubts.

  250. HouseLark
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    The big problem for me with Oded Fehr is that I know exactly what I’ll get from him, just a slight twist on his character from the Mummy films. Granted, I could have said the same thing for Sean Bean as Ned. However, what I like about Pedro Pascal is that I don’t know how he will bring Oberyn to the screen and that makes it something to look forward to, and anticipation is fun.

    It’s a bit of a shame that the production didn’t snatch at the opportunity to add some diversity to its overwhelmingly white central cast but given what we know about the Martells and the Dornish in general, casting a latino actor for Oberyn does not preclude casting actors of other ethnic backgrounds for the remaining roles.

    Let’s see where this goes. Mark Addy and Natalie Dormer looked a bit left-field and worked out well and personally, I never thought Liam Cunningham could bring so much out of Davos. I have seen his work before and knew he was a good actor but he’s took a character that I didn’t really care about in the books and made him into the character that I most root for in the show.

    Good luck to Pascal, he’s landed one of the more memorable roles in the series.

  251. Jake Umber
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    Off topic, but that new Deadline interview released today with D&D almost cements that they are going for 8 seasons of the show. Pretty interesting.

    Benoiff: “And for us what is most enticing about this series is, if we’re lucky enough to get to the end, there will be 80 hours of screen time with a beginning, middle, and a real end. Not something that feels like 80 separate episodes, but instead something where, if you were masochistic enough, you could go into a theater and watch a marathon of the whole thing.”

    Source: http://www.deadline.com/2013/06/emmy-q-a-with-game-of-thrones-david-benioff-and-d-b-weiss/

  252. Lex
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    Adam 2nd of his name:
    Anyone else see a young Liam Neeson in this guy? No one? Just me? Ok.

    Sure, I can see that. I’m still going with “Latino Nathan Fillion” though.

  253. darquemode
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Abou 14 minutes into Episode 2 of Graceland when his character Juan Badillo is introduced he has a Spanish accent when he introduces himself and says “Call me Juan.”

    After that there is no hint of the accent though. XD

  254. Summer Is Coming
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    It’s like you people haven’t learned the lesson: let the actor perform and then criticize him , or praise him if he deserves it! It’s sad really.

    I’m actually happy they are going international: mix the British and the Irish with a Dane, a Dutch, a couple of Germans, some Americans, and now a Chilean. So happy! Keep them coming!

    I can’t wait to see him as the Red Viper and I’m so relieved that this part has been cast. Go Pedro! In Nina Gold We Trust!

    Edt: and yes! I totally knew they were going Hispanic, partially because GRRm said Dorne was based on Spain.

  255. Endless Giraffe
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    Looks like they are going Hispanic with the dornish, I always imagined them being Arabic. I like the choice though.

  256. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    Kingslayer,

    People are allowed to disagree with the decision, if everyone agreed life would be pretty dull. I can be dramatic and over the top with my comments but it’s only because I love the show and books, I am very passionate when it comes to decisions about the show.

  257. Tori Targaryen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    Very curious to see how he does. Though I’m sure he will be great, the cast of GOT has been absolutely fantastic so far.

  258. Bard
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury: Awww come on, Cogman, this comment thread isn’t that bad. Very much looking forward to seeing how Dorne is presented, as far as accent, culture and costuming.

    (I am very amused btw that Eddie from that episode of Buffy is the Red Viper of Dorne.)

    I beg to differ, the thread IS awful.

  259. mariamb18
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

    If anyone is interested, here is a link to his CV on IMDB…

    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0050959/resume

  260. Hali
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    JR,

    There are a hellalot of Deadwood, The Wire, Sopranos, Breaking Bad, and Justified fans out there who think Game of Thrones is silly and that your bar isn’t nearly high enough. Doesn’t mean they are right anymore than you are right about Dr. Who. What does your opinion of Dr. Who have to do with anything? Why bash other shows in defense of your opinions about this casting choice?

  261. Cary Storm
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    I get the “not a famous actor” rage. Yeah, he’s a big important and popular character for many of us.

    I get the “he’s too young” rage. Because the character has got several grown daughters, what does this mean for them?

    I don’t at all get the “he’s too white” rage. I’m as anti-whitewashing as anyone, so yes, I’m one of the first to get mad when someone nonwhite gets cast by a white person. But I’m delighted there’s a Latino actor here regardless of his “white-passes” ness. And looking at the picture that WiC replaced, it looks like he actually “passes as brown” pretty easily.

  262. zambi76
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    Bard: I beg to differ, the thread IS awful.

    I guess you haven’t headed over to tumblr yet. >.<

  263. Lex
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen:
    Kingslayer,

    People are allowed to disagree with the decision, if everyone agreed life would be pretty dull. I can be dramatic and over the top with my comments but it’s only because I love the show and books, I am very passionate when it comes to decisions about the show.

    Your recent posts have been borderline trolling, so don’t be surprised by the reaction they get.

  264. Adam
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen:
    Downtown Abbey gets Paul Giamatti and we get some obscure actor from Chili. Nina Gold has lost her touch, she’s not made a great casting decision since S2.

    *Chile

    If you’re going to denigrate the guy for his nationality, at least spell it right.

  265. Spryte
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    Yes! I was hoping for a sexy Latino actor like Diego Luna. Pedro is exactly what I imagined. Very happy!

  266. Nezzer
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    Jake Umber:
    Off topic, but that new Deadline interview released today with D&D almost cements that they are going for 8 seasons of the show. Pretty interesting.

    Benoiff: “And for us what is most enticing about this series is, if we’re lucky enough to get to the end, there will be 80 hours of screen time with a beginning, middle, and a real end. Not something that feels like 80 separate episodes, but instead something where, if you were masochistic enough, you could go into a theater and watch a marathon of the whole thing.”

    Source:http://www.deadline.com/2013/06/emmy-q-a-with-game-of-thrones-david-benioff-and-d-b-weiss/

    I’m disappointed. I wanted them to do 10 seasons. If they end it in 8 seasons it’s almost certain they are going to finish the story before the books, and they’ll probably have to cut a lot of material to end it in 8 seasons.

  267. Cary Storm
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    Summer Is Coming:
    It’s like you people…

    Whoa whoa whoa. Whatcha mean “YOU PEOPLE”???

  268. Ser Endrew Tarth
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    Adam 2nd of his name,

    Liam Neeson was my first thought as well when I saw the pic LOL.

  269. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    How am I trolling ? I’ve been posting on this site for a good couple years.

  270. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    Bard,

    People are allowed to have differing opinions. It’s not the end of the world if someone likes an actor’s face and someone doesn’t, or if someone thinks one ethnicity is more ideal for the part than another. Debating casting is fun. If we all agreed all the time that would be pretty boring. As long as they are civil, there’s no problem. If there are personal attacks, the post will get deleted. If you don’t like to read disagreements about casting, just don’t read comments at all. But so far this has been very mild compared to past posts where people where very unhappy, especially when it came to female roles. People were very nasty indeed about appearances then.

  271. Gabriel
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    Hmm, I imagined him like Rodrigo Santoro, but I liked it anyway.

  272. Cary Storm
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm: Whoa whoa whoa. Whatcha mean “YOU PEOPLE”???

    (Sorry, couldn’t resist :) )

  273. Eos
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    He seems really fine to me! My only concern is … if he looks that young – how are the Sand Snakes gonna be portrayed? Do you think they’re gonna make them younger? Cause frankly, Pedro looks a bit young to have a nearly 30-year-old daugther.

  274. Lex
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen:
    Lex,

    How am I trolling ? I’ve been posting on this site for a good couple years.

    Saying ridiculous things like your first 3 posts in this thread = trolling.

    To me, it seemed like you were intentionally looking for a reaction. (EDITED: After 3 posts, you seemed a bit more reasonable).

  275. Cary Storm
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    Lex: Saying ridiculous things like your first 5 or 10 posts in this thread = trolling.

    Lex, I’d hardly call it trolling. Knowing Al, it was more being overly dramatic. Trolling is intentionally inciting conflict to get a negative reaction. He was reacting, not trying to get a reaction.

  276. zambi76
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    Was not sure why the young looking-ness bothered me so much but then it hit me that he looks most definitely way younger than Dinklage, which … doesn’t make much sense book-wise. But we’ll see what make-up can do.

  277. Atreyu
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm,

    I also am “people” and take offense.

    Also, Sarah Michelle Gellar for Ellaria Sand! Eddie and Buffy were meant to be.

  278. Ser Endrew Tarth
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    mariamb18,

    I know I hate to be negative, but I keep scratching my head when certain scenes/lines are not included (ie Robb being greeted outside the twin w/ greywind animosity; Mance not telling Jon of his trip to WF, or being a bard, or how he united the clans w/ his own strength, or anything cool really lol). I could see them altering this meeting somehow b/c there’s too many horses and extras… here’s hoping the dialogue at least remains in tact. I would miss Pod identifying the banners though.

  279. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    Eh sure I went a little OTT but I certainly wasn’t trolling. If you think that’s bordeline trolling you clearly haven’t been to a lot of forums.

    Seriously check out the GOT IMDB forum and then you’ll see what trolls are like ;-p

  280. Eddward
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    Looking at his pictures on IMDB, his looks are within the range of how I pictured him when I read the books. There is one picture in which he is displaying a very confident/cocky smile, which I think is dead on Red Viperish. From the comments of D&D in the EW article, it appears he will be bisexual like he is in the books I am glad they are not changing that aspect of his character.

  281. Summer Is Coming
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm,

    I mean those people who go bananas on an actor based on some pictures, without giving him a chance to show his talent. And those people who besiege an actor in the beginning, and then praise him with tears in their eyes in the Curtain Calls and exclaim that he’s the best possible ‘whatever character’, and swear on Jesus that they knew he was going to be perfect for the role. Those people.

    Edit: :P oh, you were sarcastic. :))

  282. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    Spryte,

    He looks like a cross between Diego Luna,Liam Neeson, and Olivier Martinez.

  283. CoolHandLuque
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    Sooooooooooo glad they didn’t go with a British actor. Goes to show that Dorne will have a geographical and ethic difference from the rest of Westeros, as well it should.

  284. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    Eos,

    I was wondering about the age myself. I think it’s not too much of an issue if they simply have the Sand Snakes (assuming some of them appear, and I’m sure not all of them will) be younger than they are in the books. I think Pascal must be near Oberyn’s book age, but he looks younger. But he could have a daughter that is twentyish, old enough to be a presence the way Tyene/Nym/Obara are. The ages can be worked around.

  285. mariamb18
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    Ser Endrew Tarth,

    This is the curse of being a book-reader. We have favorite scenes. Or we imagine scenes and/or characters in a particular way. Then, when they are translated to TV and are different, we are disappointed. Its an evil cycle.

    I love Oberyn. I hope this scene isn’t altered – his grand entrance with his bannermen, his dialogue with Tyrion. But I’ve been disappointed before and it hasn’t lessened my love for this show.

  286. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    This quote from D&D gives me confidence:

    “We found a fellow who can handle the job description and make it seem effortless. He wasn’t easy to find and he won’t be easy to stop.”

  287. berkelberkel
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    JR: Cirian Hinds was barely in Season 3 and that’s mostly because of money.

    citation needed

  288. VARGOAT
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    give me ron perlman as aero hotah and i´ll die happy

  289. Cary Storm
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    VARGOAT:
    give me ron perlman as aero hotah and i´ll die happy

    Hmm… I can live with that.

  290. mariamb18
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    This quote from D&D gives me confidence:

    “We found a fellow who can handle the job description and make it seem effortless. He wasn’t easy to find and he won’t be easy to stop.”

    Exactly. That statement tells me that they are well-aware that this was a tough role to fill.

  291. Chickenduck
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    Visually different from rest of Westeros – check.

    Optimistic so far!

    Now I’m keen to hear what accent he uses.

  292. sati
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    zambi76: I guess you haven’t headed over to tumblr yet. >.<

    Yeah there is an actual shitstorm there :/

  293. Nezzer
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    VARGOAT:
    give me ron perlman as aero hotah and i´ll die happy

    Why would they cast such a famous actor for one of the most useless characters in the books? Areo Hotah doesn’t need to be more than a featured extra.

  294. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

    zambi76:
    Was not sure why the young looking-ness bothered me so much but then it hit me that he looks most definitely way younger than Dinklage, which … doesn’t make much sense book-wise. But we’ll see what make-up can do.

    Considering Dinklage is older than Nicolaj Coster-Waldau and Lena Headey, I don’t see the problem. It’s fantasy. Make believe Dinklage is younger.

  295. NewJeffCT
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    mariamb18:
    Ser Endrew Tarth,

    This is the curse of being a book-reader. We have favorite scenes. Or we imagine scenes and/or characters in a particular way. Then, when they are translated to TV and are different, we are disappointed. Its an evil cycle.

    I love Oberyn. I hope this scene isn’t altered – his grand entrance with his bannermen, his dialogue with Tyrion. But I’ve been disappointed before and it hasn’t lessened my love for this show.

    Yeah, I love his intro in the books – not for all the Dornish bannermen, but for his initial dialogue with Tyrion and his story of how baby Tyrion was so disappointing to he and his sister Elia.

  296. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

    sati,

    When isn’t there a shitstorm on Tumblr?

  297. Macha
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm: Hmm… I can live with that.

    And I can live with not having a double dose of Areo Hotah in my life. How about that? :)

  298. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    Any word from George at all ?

  299. Salty Dornishman
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    Josh Parker:
    I think Al Swearengen and JR are teenagers.

    The remind me of David Tennant fangirls who were so against the idea of ANYONE but their beloved David playing the Doctor that they immediately began to say that Matt Smith was a terrible choice WELL BEFORE they saw him in the role.

    We now know that Matt Smith is an awesome Doctor and if anything, has surpassed Tennant.

    This!!

  300. axia777
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    VARGOAT:
    give me ron perlman as aero hotah and i´ll die happy

    Great idea but he currently campaigning hard for Hellboy 3 to be made.

  301. mariamb18
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap: Considering Dinklage is older than Nicolaj Coster-Waldau and Lena Headey, I don’t see the problem. It’s fantasy. Make believe Dinklage is younger.

    You are on a roll today with these comments..”make believe Dinkalge is younger.” :)

  302. sati
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    sati,

    When isn’t there a shitstorm on Tumblr?

    That’s a good point :)

  303. Proudwing
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

    I always forget to bring popcorn to these threads.

  304. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    Yeah anyone who disagrees with this decision is either a troll or an teenager and they should leave this site because all decisions regarding the show are perfect…..

  305. Adam Whitehead
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    Off-topic, but that interview with Benioff and Weiss is very interesting. Apparently they and GRRM have had some disagreements over how the show proceeds forwards post-Season 4, and they’re killing off a number of characters earlier than in the books.

    Also:

    “We have a death coming up, and a lovely young woman who doesn’t want to die.”

    Shae, I’m thinking?

  306. Nancy
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    Aemon,

    I am completely unfamiliar with this actor and his work too. I am anxious to see how he plays the Red Viper, one of the characters that I have been looking forward to.
    He kind of reminds me of Eric Bana (always a good reminder in my book!)

  307. quadurp
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    What the hell HBO or whoever decided this? I thought the Martells were dark-skinned like some African-Americans. Well, I shouldn’t be surprised of this white washing but I just had my hopes up.

  308. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    I think they mean Ygritte

  309. babar
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    Rose Leslie, I guess.

  310. Lady of Highgarden
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    It’s kind of embarrassing what’s happening on Tumblr right now. I just joined that place a couple of weeks ago and I’m already disgusted by what I’ve seen. They’re actually attacking the actor there, like it’s his fault that he was offered a freaking job.

    I was expecting someone slightly darker, too, but I’m not disappointed or anything. I’m sure he’ll do a great job. In Nina We Trust and all that :)

  311. OtherAndrew
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    they’re killing off a number of characters earlier than in the books.

    Let’s not start this again. It’s not even clear from their quotes whether that refers to future or past seasons. Or, we can start a yearlong fanwank over WHO WILL DIE EARLIER like the ones that led to the shocking deaths of Mago, Marillion, and Xaro.

  312. Greenseer
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

    For all those wondering about Pascal’s age – I saw on one of the IMDb entries that his year of birth is 1968 – so he’s 45.

    I saw the Vimeo and really did chuckle at the posters here who mentioned Nathan Fillion. That’s exactly what I thought.

    Let’s just wait and see how it turns out.

  313. Turncloak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    OtherAndrew,

    Marrillion is alive. He just lost his tongue thanks to Joffrey. I have a feeling we will be seeing him again

  314. Khal-A-Bunga
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    Haven’t seen the actor in anything, and he isn’t exactly how I envisioned him, but I’ve yet to be disappointed by Nina Gold, D&D, and whoever else helps with the casting process. Looking forward to seeing some footage (though that’s likely a looong way off), especially so we can see how they decide to interpret the Dornish through their costuming, and so I can hear the actor use the accent he plans on using for the role.

  315. Turncloak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    quadurp,

    The Martells are not African Americans

  316. Atreyu
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    They ain’t Eskimos, either. What’s your point?

  317. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    In all honesty Elio Garcia would have been the perfect Red Viper.

    http://img.getglue.com/avatar/elio_garcia/large_tile.jpg

  318. Uno0
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    Judging from that picture, I really like the casting! I can see it. In Nina we trust!

  319. Bill Volk
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    He’s not supposed to be *too* dark. He’s a salty Dornishman, not a sandy one.

  320. jentario
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    My life is complete. He is perfect.

  321. jentario
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen:
    In all honesty Elio Garcia would have been the perfect Red Viper.

    http://img.getglue.com/avatar/elio_garcia/large_tile.jpg

    No.

  322. babar
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    As for the complaints.. let’s just remember how much people criticized Mark Addy, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Jack Gleeson, Jerome Flynn and Michelle Fairley when they were first announced.

  323. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    babar,

    The only casting prior to this that I complained about was Gemma Whelan and Ellie Kendrick. Nothing from S2 and S3 has changed my mind.

  324. babar
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    What’s wrong with them?

  325. Mar
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    OMG OMG!!! I’m Chilean and i don’t know him.
    This is my favourite character.
    I’m glad is someone we don’t know and wasn’t one of the options for this character.
    I’m hopeful.

  326. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    The only thing I’ve seen him in is Buffy so I can’t judge his acting that well. You can be sure that D&D and Nina Gold know Oberyn is a fan favorite so I doubt they randomly cast him because he is cheaper than a big name actor. It probably would have been easiest to cast a London based actor so the fact that they went with an American could indicate that he was by far the best person they saw. It doesn’t matter that he’s not that well known. Many talented actors get their big break late. Some never get one. Also, you have to take into account the underrepresentation of Latinos in T.V. and movies. Often Latino’s are just cast in one dimensional drug cartel roles.
    Some of the race comments are bordering on offensive. All the “not Latin and/or dark enough” stuff is just nauseating. Would you tell him to his face that he’s too light to be a real Latino? If not, you probably shouldn’t say it on the internet either.
    It’s great news that they are keeping him bi. I was a bit more concerned with that than exact skin tone.

  327. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    Lady of Highgarden:
    It’s kind of embarrassing what’s happening on Tumblr right now. I just joined that place a couple of weeks ago and I’m already disgusted by what I’ve seen. They’re actually attacking the actor there, like it’s his fault that he was offered a freaking job.

    I was expecting someone slightly darker, too, but I’m not disappointed or anything. I’m sure he’ll do a great job. In Nina We Trust and all that :)

    I was going to write some long thing in response to this but instead I’ll just summarize; tumblr is shit unless you want funny pictures of cats.

  328. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    I’ve been hoping they would cast someone from the Buffyverse!

    “why don’t you let dead Eddie get your dinner?’

    How about a big dog on a spear? A Mountain kabob!

  329. TheWolfOfWinterfell
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    If Naveen Andrews would have been cast the only thing I would have been looking forward to is him getting his skull caved in.

  330. I am no Ser
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    I think he has the right look for the role (I always pictured the Dornish to be more Spanish anyways) but what really gives me hope/confidence that he’ll be great are the comments from D&D about the character and how this actor delivered in the auditions!

  331. Lex
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    Lady of Highgarden:
    It’s kind of embarrassing what’s happening on Tumblr right now. I just joined that place a couple of weeks ago and I’m already disgusted by what I’ve seen. They’re actually attacking the actor there, like it’s his fault that he was offered a freaking job.

    I was expecting someone slightly darker, too, but I’m not disappointed or anything. I’m sure he’ll do a great job. In Nina We Trust and all that :)

    Bunch of losers.

  332. I won da GwD pubquiz
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    ygritte is far sooner

  333. Turncloak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    Atreyu,

    I never said they were. Just clarifying something to the commentor. No need to get defensive

  334. jentario
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead: agreements over how the show proceeds forwards post-Season 4, and they’

    The fact that they mentioned that there relationship with him is great, and said they had disagreements in every season they wrote tells me this isn’t something too major. Maybe they cut a character like, I don’t know, Ellaria Sand (that would totally fit the context, if you look at it again).

  335. Catrina
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

    Apparently he’s gonna be in season 3 of Homeland so I can’t wait to see how he does.. http://www.tvguide.com/News/Homeland-Guest-Stars-1065998.aspx

  336. Jared
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

    Pedro looks a little younger than I pictured the Red Viper to be, which is to say early-to-mid 40s. I have no idea if that’s actually the case – I can’t find his age anywhere – but it’s hardly something that I’m going to worry about. From this point forward, the work is all that matters.

    With respect to the opinions and beliefs expressed by those people who have commented before me, I personally could give two shits about Pedro Pascal’s race/ethnicity. All I care about is if the guy can convincingly play a character who is confident, intelligent, and dangerous to the bone. The clip from Nikita tells me that he can, and the vote of confidence expressed by Benioff and Weiss goes a long way with me. They know how important it is to do justice to this fan-favorite character, and they have shown remarkably good judgment through three seasons of excellent work. I trust their instincts, and I look forward to seeing Pedro on screen as the Red Viper next spring.

    In Nina Gold We Trust.

  337. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    Holy crap! He played a character named Gregor on some show called Good Vs. Evil. That is hilarious!

  338. Joshua Taylor
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    I wonder if Eddie..er Oberyn still keeps that copy of Of Human Bondage in his nightstand?

  339. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    Whenever people get upset about there being criticism over a casting, I like to remember threads like this: “Sean Bean Cast as Ned.”

    Several gems like this: “Sean Bean is a great guy and a true Blade but he is a dreadful, truly dreadful actor. “

  340. voiceareason
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    The only place worse than Tumblr right now is ONTD. Truly awful behavior.

  341. Atreyu
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    Not defensive. Just wondering how you perceived the Dornish. Saying that the Martells are not African-Americans is the same as saying they are not Eskimos. It’s a fantasy series, not a survey course in anthropology.

  342. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    ahem. Not everyone on Tumblr is “attacking” the actor. I’m on tumblr. A lot of people are, people who post here. Some people are expressing their discontent with his casting. I wouldn’t condemn an entire social/blogging network of GoT fans just because a GoT fans are upset.

  343. Chickenduck
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    Adam 2nd of his name:
    Anyone else see a young Liam Neeson in this guy? No one? Just me? Ok.

    Not just you! I can see it.

    I like his look – visually different to the rest of the Westerosi, which was my main criterion.

    Casting the Dornish as Latinos gives a lot of latitude for racial diversity, with the mix of native American, African, Asian and European ancestry.

  344. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    I can already see an Oberyn/Loras flirting/bedding scene incoming for season 4… wait for that shitstorm.

  345. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    Whenever people get upset about there being criticism over a casting, I like to remember threads like this: “Sean Bean Cast as Ned.”

    Several gems like this: “Sean Bean is a great guy and a true Blade but he is a dreadful, truly dreadful actor. ”

    Also, Peter Dinklage can’t be Tyrion because he is not blonde.

  346. Lex
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    Apologies. I admit, I’m generalizing and I can’t even bring myself to take a look over there. But based on the description of some people’s behaviour, yeah, I have some opinions… :)

  347. Turncloak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    Ygritte I hope. Jon Snow needs some big moments in season 4 and that is crucial to his arc

  348. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh,

    lol don’t give them any ideas!!!!!!

  349. Turncloak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    Atreyu,

    I imagined the Martells as swarthy Latinos but I’m happy with this casting. I would have been just as happy if actors like Edris Alba, Sidig or James Puerfoy have been casted. For me acting chops are worth more than the color of your skin and if Nina gold thinks Pedro is the perfect Red Viper than I’m on board. What bothers me is people not giving the actor a chance because the character is not of the pigment that he’s described as or that people imagined him to be.

  350. Khal-A-Bunga
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    Don’t kid yourself. You’re more like Con Stapleton than Al.

  351. franco
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    Lex:
    Is ANYONE surprised at this embarrassing reaction? Not me. My first hint was the 500+ comments in the “Importance of Dorne” thread. No matter how the Dornish are cast, this was guaranteed to be a shit show. This is only the beginning.

    Sadly, this is true…

  352. jax
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    Nice choice! I’ve always thought that Dorne was based off of Spain and the Moorish influences. I think of the Water Gardens and picture the Alhambra. He’s good looking and, with make up, they can age him up a bit to be a old enough to be a father to the Sand Snakes. Good job!

  353. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    I could see Idris Elba playing Moqorro.

  354. jentario
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    Atreyu,

    I imagined the Martells as swarthy Latinos but I’m happy with this casting. I would have been just as happy if actors like Edris Alba, Sidig or James Puerfoy have been casted. For me acting chops are worth more than the color of your skin and if Nina gold thinks Pedro is the perfect Red Viper than I’m on board. What bothers me is people not giving the actor a chance because the character is not of the pigment that he’s described as or that people imagined him to be.

    I did too. The only truly black Dornish characters were the Sand Snakes described as such. The rest of them are supposed to be olive skinned and looking at the photo on the main post, the guy has the right skin color. The true diversity will come when Dorne is introduced and I expect many side characters, extras and definitely the appropriate Sand Snakes to be black (as they should be!) to add more diversity to the show. Going Latino for the Martells is the right move IMO.

  355. Hi-Fi
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    He is SEXAY!

    Thumbs up! I think he’ll be perfect.

    3sum with Elaria and some dude, please.

  356. Lyanna_Targaryen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    This echoes my sentiments in my first comment (thanks for linking to that post, by the way, I missed that one in my journey into the archives).

  357. Arya Dunyett
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    I’ve read about a third of the griping about this actor’s hue.I’ve got to remember that I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the Gold standard of casting, with almost no exceptions.
    The actor is Chilean, and in my book, that automatically brings diversity to a show that has done one humdinger of a casting job.
    Personally, I had envisioned darker, more piecing eyes and a beak-like nose to go with the widow’s peak, but I’ll adjust my expectations.
    Pedro speaks English with an American accent, so I’ll be interested to know how he will read his lines. Wonder if all the Dornish will speak the Common Tongue with some sort of Latin accent? Tune in later.

  358. Chickenduck
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

    While I’m thinking about it – I know a woman who is mixed Japanese/Brazilian (the Brazilian side being the mestiço European/native American mix). She is SMOKING hot. Was a model in her younger years.

    There are quite a few like her in Brazil (and Peru) where there wer large Japanese migrant population which have partially blended in with the usual Latin mix – would be a great look for maybe Ellaria or Nymeria.

    Check out actress Daniele Suzuki for the look I mean (although the Brazilian/Japanese model I mentioned before tends slightly more to the Latina look rather than Japanese). I have no idea if Daniele Suzuki can act though. Or if she can speak English for that matter.

  359. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

    Khal-A-Bunga,

    I wish I had his badass mustache.

  360. Turncloak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    Arya Dunyett,

    Maybe the Dornish have American accents :-). It’s possible

  361. Chickenduck
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh:
    I can already see an Oberyn/Loras flirting/bedding scene incoming for season 4… wait for that shitstorm.

    I… approve of all parts of that post.

  362. jentario
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    Arya Dunyett,

    Maybe the Dornish have American accents :-). It’s possible

    It would be hilarious. Especially if Peter Dinklage is given a scene where he imitates a Dornish accent (since he’s actually American). It does make sense for the accents to be different…

  363. Turncloak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    Chickenduck,

    I can see the Red Viper stealing one of Loras’ lovers. Now wouldnt that add fuel to the fire to their book animosity ;)

  364. Joshua Taylor
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    Khal-A-Bunga:
    Al Swearengen,

    Don’t kid yourself. You’re more like Con Stapleton than Al.

    Ouch!!!

  365. Chickenduck
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    Arya Dunyett,

    Maybe the Dornish have American accents :-). It’s possible

    I wouldn’t hate that.

    Let’s subvert some fantasy clichés here! Medieval English didn’t sound like modern British – but that’s what everyone has in their heads… and it seems impossible to break that audience expectation.

    Some of what you hear in the Appalachians is closer to Shakespearean pronunciation than modern upper-class English is.

    I want to hear the “Dornish drawl”. At least a few different vowel sounds, dammit!

  366. Chickenduck
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    jentario: It would be hilarious.Especially if Peter Dinklage is given a scene where he imitates a Dornish accent (since he’s actually American).

    YESSSSSSS!!! That’d be solid gold.

  367. Phil
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    Wow, he looks exactly how i pictured the character. Really glad they went the latino route as opposed to casting a middle-eastern guy. If you imagine Dornish people as middle-eastern you are sort of wrong, sorry.

  368. Turncloak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    Chickenduck,

    Now you have me imagining the Red Viper with Rick Grimes’ accent! Khaaarl git back in the house.

  369. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    If anybody is curious, here is some information about the genetic composition of Chile.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11974524

  370. Mr Fixit
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger: Also, Peter Dinklage can’t be Tyrion because he is not blonde.

    Not to mention he’s not ugly enough.

  371. Chickenduck
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    Chickenduck,

    I can see the Red Viper stealing one of Loras’ lovers. Now wouldnt that add fuel to the fire to their book animosity ;)

    Now that’s what I’m talking about! Ser Turncloak, I salute you.

    The RV as a character has so much narrative potential… Looking forward to what invented scenes they create to build him up. I love what they did with the writing for the Queen of Thorns – the writing for the RV should be just as awesome.

    Excited for S4!!

  372. Turncloak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    jentario: It would be hilarious. Especially if Peter Dinklage is given a scene where he imitates a Dornish accent (since he’s actually American). It does make sense for the accents to be different…

    OMG THIS! Maybe the Dornish have Brooklyn accents. I hear Doran is a Jay Z fan

  373. jentario
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak: OMG THIS! Maybe the Dornish have Brooklyn accents. I hear Doran is a Jay Z fan

    Oh god, you ruined Doran for me :/

  374. Turncloak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Chickenduck,

    I want to go into hibernation until the season start but I hear that’s only possible on bear Island :(. Damn u Jorah

  375. Coltaine777
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    He looks alright to me…can’t wait to see him in action

  376. Alex
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    Phil,

    “Sorry”?

    Um, ‘apology’ not accepted, then

    This far in you really want to add more know-it-all douchiness to the conversation?

  377. Turncloak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    I got 99 problems and a sand snake ain’t one

  378. jentario
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    jentario,

    I got 99 problems and a sand snake ain’t one

    If you don’t mind, it’s 3 am and I think I’ll just go to sleep. Hopefully I’ll forget Brooklyn Doran but I will more likely have nightmares about it.

  379. Atreyu
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    Gotcha, we are in agreement. So long as the Dornish aren’t blonde-haired, blue-eyed Nords, I think the casting is adequate. As far as acting chops go, with the number of named actors in the production, GOT can’t afford to pay for top talent, they do what they can. Besides, show-watchers could be looking at future Oscar winners who got their first break on the show.

  380. Lia
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    quadurp:
    What the hell HBO or whoever decided this? I thought the Martells were dark-skinned like some African-Americans. Well, I shouldn’t be surprised of this white washing but I just had my hopes up.

    Actually he’s a Salty Dornish so he has olive skin. Casting someone from Chile is perfectly fine for the role. :)

    You’re thinking of Sandy Dornish who have darker skin due to the harsh sun.

  381. Turncloak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    Haha cheers! I’ll be here all week!

  382. NoOne
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    Viva Latinoamerica! XD, To the people judging the actor because his skin is not dark enough or that his nose is big or whatever, stop embarrassing yourselves.

  383. WildSeed
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    I’d only just gotten used to Cosimo Fusco , as a likely choice for the role of
    Oberyn Martell. I never reasoned that my preferences would win out ;
    Alexander Siddig , Oded Fehr , Naveen Andrews , etc. I’ve just never heard
    of this fellow being discussed here as a contender . Any ways, he’s got
    a resume and wanted the chance, so good luck to him.

    It’s not likely that this character will add any long term impact onscreen, as
    the main purpose is to relay his family’s name and historical relevance
    to viewers, set the stage for far reaching impacts in the future. Without a
    doubt, Oberyn places himself squarely in the middle of things, with
    bravado and challenge. I’m almost sad to see how short lived his role
    actually is, that is unless GoT decides to expand or give an interesting twist.
    I wonder whom will portray his concubine ?

    Since onscreen Daario lacked the swagger I’d hoped for, this guy better bring it,
    wig and all ! He’d better put Silvio Forel to shame with his sword ! *>*

  384. Chickenduck
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    Atreyu:
    Turncloak,

    Gotcha, we are in agreement. So long as the Dornish aren’t blonde-haired, blue-eyed Nords, I think the casting is adequate.

    Well, I’ll be anal and point out that one of the Sandsnakes IS canonically blonde/blue eyed (Tyene), but your point is correct.

    The Dornish need to be different, and Pedro is different.

    And the Sand Snakes should look more diverse than the rest of the Dornish anyway, from very white to very dark, to show how widely the RV has spread his seed.

  385. WildSeed
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak: OMG THIS! Maybe the Dornish have Brooklyn accents. I hear Doran is a Jay Z fan

    You talkin’ about Giancarlo Esposito ? Or are you just breaking bad, again ? (:

  386. Eljuma
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    Atreyu,

    He is replying to another guy who is complaining because he *imagined* the Martells as African-Americans.

  387. Sareeta
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    I was about to poo-poo this, because a) he’s too recognizable for playing American characters and b) he didn’t match the description in my mind, but….I think with the right costume and makeup, this could work.

    Plus, at least they are going with someone with a Chilean background.

    Still would’ve preferred Naveen Andrews…

  388. WildSeed
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    Chickenduck,

    To add : not include the blonde , blue eyed persons of African descent ? or anywhere
    else for that matter. LMAO I guess he meant non- Norseman ancestry.

  389. Rygar
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

    Doesn’t this character have like three scenes and then die? Who gives a flying fuck who plays him. He looks great.

    If I could add spoilers I would but I think my point is driven into the hearsts of all haters by leaving it in. Go have a cocktail. I am. He would.

  390. Atreyu
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    Eljuma,

    I need to reevaluate everything.

  391. WildSeed
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead:
    Off-topic, but that interview with Benioff and Weiss is very interesting. Apparently they and GRRM have had some disagreements over how the show proceeds forwards post-Season 4, and they’re killing off a number of characters earlier than in the books.

    Also:

    “We have a death coming up, and a lovely young woman who doesn’t want to die.”


    Shae, I’m thinking?

    Good point. Best to take it all in as it happens onscreen. Could make for some
    interesting perks or takeaways for future seasons.

    That’s got to be Rose Leslie, amirite ? Too soon for Shae (?)

  392. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

    Pedro kinda reminds me of Nathan Fillion

    http://vimeo.com/18945174

  393. msd
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    “The boys love him, the girls love him, and he loves them all back”

    This quote from D&D indicates that they will be showing Oberyn’s bi-sexuality on the show, presumably via some sex scenes. Pedro has, as far as I can tell, played a number of gay roles in theatre. His career demonstrates that he’s comfortable with playing this aspect of the character, which is a good thing. The role may well have been tricky to fill because some actors couldn’t “handle the job description” when it was explained to them.

  394. Arkash
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    Curious to hear his voice.

  395. Chickenduck
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed:
    Chickenduck,

    To add : not include the blonde , blue eyed persons of African descent ? or anywhere
    else for that matter. LMAOI guess he meant non- Norseman ancestry.

    Yes, of course :) I was just making a dig about there being at least one blonde Dornish character.

    Conversations like this remind me of when I worked with a Turkish guy who was blonde and blue eyed. Everyone used to react with surprise when he told them where he was from (this was in Germany, where there is a large Turkish migrant community). He said his village, way out in the wilds of eastern Turkey, was almost entirely blonde, despite being surrounded by darker-complexioned people.

    Out of interest, where are you from specifically? I remember you saying West Indies, and I’d guess from an English-speaking country – Jamaica? Barbados? Trinidad?

  396. Lex
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen:
    Pedro kinda reminds me of Nathan Fillion

    http://vimeo.com/18945174

    As I said.

  397. KG
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

    Never understood why anyone would care about Oberyn.

    He arrives, insults Tyrion
    He insults Tyrion some more volunteers to fight
    Dies like a chump, after way too many repeat quotes from a movie that wasn’t that great.

    Woot … That’s the stuff of legends

  398. Chickenduck
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    Also with the news of Pedro’s casting – this solidifies my top fan picks for Doran as:

    Giancarlo Esposito
    Edward James Olmos

    Either of them could pass for Pedro’s father. Both of them are highly underrated actors in my opinion… Maybe too high-profile though.

  399. Rygar
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    Thought Boreon was RVs broski

  400. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    Chickenduck,

    Since when is Giancarlo underrated ? Almost everyone raves about his performance as Gus in Breaking Bad.

  401. sherry
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, I have seen this guy before in various TV shows, and I think he will be fine. Just let him grow his hair out and a beard so he might look a few years older. Yes, Danny Trejo, or Joe Mantegna for Doran will be great, seriously. If the casting is going Latino, or Latino/Italian there will be a multitude of fine actors and actresses to fill the cast of the Dornish.

  402. Rygar
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    KG,

    I agree so thats probably bad for you. RV is just fodder for Ian Whyte.

  403. arden
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    KG

    Why are you negative in every post

  404. Lex
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    Khal-A-Bunga:
    Al Swearengen,

    Don’t kid yourself. You’re more like Con Stapleton than Al.

    Hahaha!

  405. Joshua Taylor
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

    When I inadvertently fell across this link on a Television without Pity board, it was jarring. I had built up all the different casting possibilities in my head. Who could play our fabled Red Viper? I can’t say I wasn’t surprised to learn a a relative unknown had been cast in the role. The first pic that I saw kind of placed the “enh” in my mind but after seeing the Burn Notice still, I remembered him, and then I learned he played Eddie in ‘The Freshman.” For reasons beyond me being a Whedonite something just clicked in to place for me. The gear started whirring and lo, the more I think about it, the more I like this casting.
    I am glad they didn’t go for a big name for the Viper. It would have been awesome, but I surmise there would have been a loss of depth to the role. Superficiality would usurp pathos. Better to have someone we are not entirely familiar, so that we can see the character and not the actor. This will pay off as his arc gains momentum. Throw on some make-up, grow a little facial hair, put on a wig and some fine duds, armour, give him a sword, a swagger, a flash of the eyes and a certain gravitas…voila! All of these elements comprise the perfect RV despite the actor not being named Oded Fehr, Alexander Siddig, James Purefoy or Naveen Andrews.

    Another consideration in regards to Mr. Pascal’s talent: He will be appearing in Homeland Season 3. Not a gig to sniff at given its Emmy pedigree. He has flew by under our radar in a string of character roles in television for a long time. It seems Benioff , Weiss and Ms. Gold have snared a man on the rise.

    Am I disappointed? Of course I am. But I think over time and eventually through his performance we will see that Nina and co have made the right choice here. I tip a cup of Dornish Red to Mr. Pascal and welcome him to the fold. Congrats on this big step in your career Pedro!

  406. Severian
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

    This thread has got to be the most idiotic thing I’ve read this year, and I just got done reading about the Texas senator who didn’t know what a rape kit was. So, um, congrats on that dubious honor.

  407. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury: Awww come on, Cogman, this comment thread isn’t that bad.Very much looking forward to seeing how Dorne is presented, as far as accent, culture and costuming.

    Maybe the Cogman’s “Wow” was actually an expression of his excitement at the selection of this “Chilean” actor for the RV rather than a comment on the comments. Maybe he honestly didn’t know. :-)

  408. NoOne
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

    KG,

    Haha, he is the Boba Fett of ASOIAF more or less.

  409. Rhys
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

    Awesome. I’m sure he won’t disappoint.

    Also: A big “Fuck you” to anyone posing as actual people here in the comments. From time to time people involved with the show do read and post here. There’s absolutely no need for your childish games.

  410. Dogmayor
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    Chickenduck,

    Yea, too bad Doran and Oberyn are brothers, not father/son.

  411. unrobb
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

    SerCountryFriedSteak,

    Glad to see the racist tumblr crew arrived.

  412. tysnow
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

    Have to wait to see clips of his work, has that Latin look with long hair, etc. will look the the part. We now know what ethnic direction Nina is casting for Dorne, which I approve of, personally I was thinking India because of the wealth of Anglo-Indo actors in the UK, going international is good sign and this role will make this actors career.

    I was believing a big name would be cast as all these high profile actors wanting to be on GoT would have their agents working to find them a spot and RV was perfect for a them.

    Well now with this announcement out of the blue and no froggy either (bummer) we now have to look forward to Mace, Doran and Arianne. So what Latin actors could be chosen for the other big Dornish roles, Arianne we know will make some 20 something actress a household name as it did for Emilia. Let the guessing commence.

    There is a full episode from Nikita on YT with Pascal in a guest role, will have to watch it now.

  413. Ser Tahu
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    This isn’t what I pictured, I always pictured someone who looked older, with a more Spanish look (essentially this artwork: http://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/oberyn_martell.jpg). However, even though I am not familiar with the actor’s work, based on the picture in the post and D&D’s description this could work. I like this casting. And ever since the casting call a few days ago I had a feeling that they would go Latino for the Dornish, so I had time to accept that.

    There is one thing that disappoints me, though: I thought a Latino Viper would finally end all of the posts say “THAY NED 2 CAST MOAR POC’S!1!” and the expectation that the show must meet some arbitrary number of ethnic minorities in the cast. However, it seems that even though they cast a latino actor (whose skin tone, may I add, perfectly matches what is described IN THE BOOKS), there are still of a lot of people saying “HE ISN’T BLAK ENUF!!1″. Some people are just never satisfied, even when the casting goes by the book…

  414. unrobb
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    Lady of Highgarden,

    While there are some good pages on tumblr, there are far too many PC circle-jerk “HURR CHEK UR CIS WHITE HETERONORMATIVE ABLEIST PRIVILEGE DURR” folks for my liking.

    And we saw them invade in the “importance of Dorne” thread. Hell it seems like they were prominently featured in the post itself.

  415. Rygar
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

    Thanks for editing my posts. I am drunk and know not what I say.

  416. Galacticgal
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

    What is with people thinking that Dornish people are super dark. Man it’s so obvious their meant to be closely modeled after Spain. And this Chilean actor looks the part. The red viper is black haired and olive skinned. All the martells are of a Mediterranean cast, I feel like casting an Hispanic actor is the right choice considering Dornish people are a mix of andals first men and Rhoynar. Naveen Andrews is Indian which seems more appropriate for characters in essos. But eh, acting is the most important part. He had to do something right at the audition.

  417. Chickenduck
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

    Dogmayor:
    Chickenduck,

    Yea, too bad Doran and Oberyn are brothers, not father/son.

    Ah, yep true. My memory isn’t what it used to be.

    Still… Doran is supposed to look significantly older than Oberyn.

  418. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    unrobb,

    It is not “invading” when most of those people have posted at WiC long before you did.

    Anyway, all fans of GoT, old and new, are welcome at WiC. The purpose of posts is to invite discussion. We aren’t interested in restricting post discussion only to existing commenters. That’s pretty boring. If a topic excites a group of people who typically congregate elsewhere enough to come on over to discuss it, that’s awesome. They are more than welcome.

  419. unrobb
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

    tysnow,

    I imagine they’ll all probably be relative unknowns, or “Oh, THAT guy/girl” types. That seems to be Nina Gold’s MO. Seems to work.

  420. unrobb
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Furymost of those people have posted at WiC long before you did.

    Really now?

  421. Rygar
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

    unrobb,

    Fo’ Reals, Dog

    And Omar Comin’

  422. Baby Ned Stark
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

    Congrats to Pedro, i’m sure he’s going to be great.

  423. tysnow
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

    Jake Umber,

    Well with 54 minutes an episode comes to 72 hours, looks to me like 9 seasons to make 80 hours, unless they start giving us 90 minute premieres and finales.

  424. Adam
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    Jeez, comparing the comments here to those on Tumblr – literally EVERY SINGLE POST tagged with his name is about his skin color. Next to nothing about qualifications, excitement that the actor was cast, speculation on how he’ll do – nearly all about race.

    I thought Tumblr was this site where people posted funny memes, cat pictures, and the absurdly excellent researchinprogress. But apparently it’s mostly a place where all those people I went to college with whose majors end in “Studies” hang out. Nothing wrong with that, just had no idea how different the composition of that particular corner of the web is.

  425. Arthur
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

    KG,

    I see what you’re saying but I disagree and think you are oversimplifying the Red Viper.

    He represents an old backstory, Lannister blowback so to speak that comes back to haunt them.

    The Red Viper is a warrior that comes to Kings Landing with one thing on his mind. How to fuck over the Lannisters and get vengeance for the brutal murder of his sister and her family.

    He is a heroic badass with cockiness and wit that takes on one of the realms greatest warriors in the name of avenging a beloved family member.

    He is a volcano on the verge of erupting, an atom bomb ready to explode, a nuclear facility about to meltdown…

    I really hope he brings a huge amount of tension to KL and punks down Tyrion and Tywin. I hope he outright insults Cersei and looks at the kings guard like “what are you going to do?”

    Basically this is D&Ds chance to throw someone like a civilized Khal Drogo into KL to ruffle everyone up… They are throwing a viper into a rats nest.

    Whoever this actor is, he has some huge shoes to fill and I hope he delivers. I personally love the Red Viper and I can’t wait to see him get in these Lannister faces…

  426. Adam
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger:
    If anybody is curious, here is some information about the genetic composition of Chile.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11974524

    If any fan cares about the freakin’ genetic composition of the actors on their favorite TV show, they’re thinking too hard (and about the wrong things).

  427. Shadowcat85
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    JR,

    Casting is an extremely tedious process. 9 times out of 10 the person picked is not the first choice. For a role like this, someone would most likely audition for the casting director, then directors, then the studio, then the network. I’m sure D&D put a lot of thought into this decision.

  428. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

    tysnow,

    That’s a great point! If they start talking 80 hours rather than 80 episodes, that can mean very different things indeed.

  429. Adam
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

    The idea that he’s the “Latino Nathan Fillion” makes me like him about a zillion times more now. Just sayin’.

    (So excited to see Much Ado – hopefully – Sunday.)

  430. Adam
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

    tysnow:
    Jake Umber,

    Well with 54 minutes an episode comes to 72 hours, looks to me like 9 seasons to make 80 hours, unless they start giving us 90 minute premieres and finales.

    I *really* don’t think they meant that to be interpreted in legalese :) It’s an interview with TV producers, precision is not the name of the game.

  431. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    Adam,

    How tumblr works is, only the first original post appears in the tumblr tagging system. So every person who reblogs the post to comment, you’re not going to see that. There are plenty of people who have no problem with his skin color who reblog and chat about the actor and his acting etc, but they are commenting later on, not in the first post. Also many people are starting posts and not tagging them because they just don’t care. People aren’t picking about tagging.

    I also know for a fact that it isn’t true that every single Oberyn or Pedro post is about his skin color because some of them originate from my blog, TumblrofThrones, and from WiCNet’s tumblr. :)

  432. Ser Tahu
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    Or maybe that isn’t actually Bryan Cogman because in the past he has always posted under his full name? :P

  433. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    I assumed it was legit because “Ours Is the Fury” replied (and supposedly, as a moderator/blogger, OItF has access to the associated email address). :-)

  434. Adam
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    Adam,

    How tumblr works is, only the first original post appears in the tumblr tagging system. So every person who reblogs the post to comment, you’re not going to see that. There are plenty of people who have no problem with his skin color who reblog and chat about the actor and his acting etc, but they are commenting later on, not in the first post. Also many people are starting posts and not tagging them because they just don’t care. People aren’t picking about tagging.

    I also know for a fact that it isn’t true that every single Oberyn or Pedro post is about his skin color because some of them originate from my blog, TumblrofThrones, and from WiCNet’s tumblr. :)

    I took careful care not to say EVERY one, only to say the vast majority of the ones I saw ;)

    Thanks for the clarification on how Tumblr works. Between what I saw and the “Tumblr crowd” comments some have made here, I’d just gotten the impression there was a less heterogeneous composition there than I’d expected. So the original post system makes it so that the tag page is biased towards post about his race (because, presumably, people upset about it are commenting less and posting more)?

  435. Rygar
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    I feel like fucking Flashdancing.

  436. tysnow
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

    How bout Cote de Pablo as Arianne, she’s Chilean and hot, hot plus talented (NCIS).
    Another big plus for here is she watches a little known show that the fans here talk about daily. Just click here for the Hollywood Reporter article.

  437. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

    Adam,

    I posted the link as a response to people whining that he was too white. I was not one of those people, just wanted to disprove the notion that this casting didn’t give the show diversity points. I didn’t mean it was relevant to his performance in the role or anything.

  438. Adam
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

    Personally, I think as long as he looks different (/darker) than the rest of Westeros, issues of tone don’t bother me at all. And he’s got that down. He looks like you’d expect a Spaniard to compared to a northern European, or a South American to in comparison to a North American. Fine by me.

    More important is how he actually performs the role. The show will be SO much better if he just kills it. And for now we have really no idea how he’ll do – not much to go on – other than to trust in Nina. And I can do that for the time being.

    And in the meantime, I’m going to go back to the books, re-read the “you raped her, you murdered her, you killed her children!” scene, and get psyched for seeing him on screen!

  439. Selmy
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

    KG,

    Who would care about Tyrion? He just waddles about and says stuff.

  440. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

    Adam,

    I think people who are upset about it are more likely to start an original post to vent, yes, which would then cause the post to appear in the tags. People happy with the casting are just going to reblog the casting announcement links from WiC or EW or whatever and comment on it for the most part.

  441. Adam
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard:
    Ser Tahu,

    I assumed it was legit because “Ours Is the Fury” replied (and supposedly, as a moderator/blogger, OItF has access to the associated email address). :-)

    a) Cogman usually uses the name “Bryan Cogman,” and more importantly,
    b) Why on Earth would his one comment here be “wow!”?? :P Cogman’s only ever come in here to add content. And you’d imagine at the very least a “he’s great, congrats, can’t wait to see him play the role” comment if he did write something here :)

  442. Adam
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    Adam,

    I think people who are upset about it are more likely to start an original post to vent, yes, which would then cause the post to appear in the tags. People happy with the casting are just going to reblog the casting announcement links from WiC or EW or whatever and comment on it for the most part.

    Interesting. Thanks for the explanation!

  443. tysnow
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    Adam,

    One can only hope, 9 seasons of GoT beats 8 any day.

  444. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    And of course that’s the real Cogman. He’s a fucking gifted writer. He doesn’t need to say more than “Wow” to make an impact.

    (He often uses B Cogman here.)

  445. Adam
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    tysnow:
    Adam,

    One can only hope, 9 seasons of GoT beats 8 any day.

    Hey, I hope so too! And in the end I wouldn’t take a post-season 3 interview as evidence that 8 seasons is a hard limit, even if (as is totally possible) it’s what they’re aiming for now. They haven’t even written season 5 yet – much less 6, 7, or 8 – and a lot can change in five years.

  446. Adam
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    And of course that’s the real Cogman. He’s a fucking gifted writer. He doesn’t need to say more than “Wow” to make an impact.

    (He often uses B Cogman here.)

    Color me surprised. Cool!

  447. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

    Adam,

    I meant to be a bit “tongue-in-cheek” with my original post. I guess that didn’t come across well. Truthfully though, the use of brevity is probably the best reaction to this thread.

  448. WompWomp
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

    Seriously? People are throwing fits over Pascal having a lighter complexion than they imagined? Goes to show people will see what they want to see and actively seek reasons to complain, whether they realize it or not. So long as he’s distinct from the rest of the whitewashed Westerosi, I’m down with the extra color he’ll bring to the show.

    I’m relieved it’s someone I’m not familiar with. My favorite castings in film tend to be actors I can’t recognize. Plus, how can I complain when the show has only thrived thus star on the Gold standard? Say whatever you like about D&D & Co.’s decisions in your personal quibblefests, but I don’t recall any major fangripes over important castings, only personal reservations here and there. Knowing the role is cast is enough to put me at ease. I remember hearing about the skepticism surrounding Mark Addy’s dramatic turn as Robert. Or a random example outside of GoT, the Captain from Pan’s Labyrinth, who up until then made a name for himself in typecasted Spanish soap operas. The point is, talented people know what talented people look like. Gold and the GoT writers are in the privileged (and proven!) position of redefining lesser known actors by offering them outstanding roles from GRRM’s universe. The show’s cast was largely unknown to me before GoT, which is one of the benefits of being an American viewer beholding a largely British cast at work. Stateside, we see so many of the same big name actors relentlessly recycled for their star power, in television and film alike. What would incite this utter lack of confidence in Pascal’s casting from the fanbase? It boggles the mind.

  449. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    This thread is just really something by now.

    A few long-winded thoughts. Essentially, I like this. But to address a lot of the things people were thinking about:

    Diversity – Of course we don’t want to do diversity for diversity’s sake, but the Dornish are meant to be different. Well, a lot of this show’s primary cast comes from the extreme NW corner of Europe – and Germany and Holland ain’t that far from that, either. Lots of extras come from there, too, given the filming in Ireland. Chile is about as far as you can get from Ireland. When people talk “diversity” they often mean “black” or “Middle Eastern.” Well, “South American” is pretty darned different from British Isles. I would like to see the Dornish occupy several different types of coloring given they are described differently – hell, to me Ellaria is like an Aishwarya Rai looking type, while Arianne is more like Salma Hayek, and Tyene, for instance, closer to Gabrielle Wilde, though I wouldn’t make her that attractive. So there’s a lot of room for things here.

    Age – Not an issue. He appears to be in his late 30s. Perfectly good on this. Given Tywin was telling Tyrion to “wed, bed and put a child” in 14-year-old Sansa Stark, no reason Oberyn can’t have a few Sand Snakes around 20 yrs of age, which is fine.

    “He’s been in too many American shows.” — Er, us Yanks produce quite a bit of really good damned television. In fact, The Good Wife is one of the better serial dramas around, so that he had a recurring role there is a good thing. And someone alighting from Chile (or Chile who moved to the US) is more naturally going to look in Hollywood’s direction than London.

    “I’m not sure about his acting. I wanted Oded Fehr or Naveen Andrews.” — Yeah, it’s a shame that Nina Gold and crew, who have pulled rabbits out of hats from day 1 with the likes of Gwendoline Christie (amazing), Sophie Turner (doubly amazing), Lena Headey (as D&D said, she got at a funny side of Cersei that other auditions did not, and I think she rules), Dan Hildebrand (he was in 3 fucking episodes and we’re still talking about him), or Maisie Williams (OMFG), decided not to go with the guy who was sixth-billed in The Mummy, which if I remember correctly was just a few votes shy of winning 9 Oscars in 1999 over American Beauty, or Naveen Andrews, who happens to be from England, and should be disqualified just for appearing in The English Patient (blech).

    Also, this below makes a lot of sense:

    Joshua Taylor: I am glad they didn’t go for a big name for the Viper. It would have been awesome, but I surmise there would have been a loss of depth to the role. Superficiality would usurp pathos.

    True enough. Diana Rigg was one thing – Olenna Redwyne is all about the quips, so aiming at a “Dowager Countess of Westeros” effect was a solid play there. On this one, the unknown is nice. As another poster said, Oded Fehr would have been a more known quantity, and his ceiling isn’t exactly Sean Bean-level.

    I’m not saying that everyone who has something to say should just clam up and bow down to the temple of D&D, by all means. But they’ve earned a good amount of good will that doesn’t come through with some of the comments, especially in casting. By all means, express doubt, I say, if you feel that way, but please reserve judgment.

  450. Rygar
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

    I happen to think that Fury is smokin’ hot.

  451. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

    Lastly – and hopefully there will be another thread to discuss this – but that D&D interview is a really good one. I think 8 seasons probably is the sweet spot for this show. They’ve said they don’t want to do “10 seasons and kill the golden goose,” and though some HBO types have said something like 7, 8 would really probably pace it out best, leaving 3 seasons for the bulk of the final 2 books, with most of Season 4 to ASoS and some of FfC and a tiny bit of DwD, and most of Books 4-5 crammed into Season 5. That would probably pace it well, allow for some judicious cutting of some of the meandering of the next 2 books, but not so much that the impact of what’s great in those books (and there’s some great stuff) is lost.

  452. Adam
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

    Greatjon of Slumber,

    That is sensible, but how many fans want to hear it? WE WANT TO READ THE ENDING FIRST, DAMNIT.

    (Reality bites.)

  453. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    I feel like fucking Flashdancing.

    This is by far the best comment in this entire thread.

  454. perkins
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

    Love it. Thought Edgar Martinez would go good but this guy is more slinkier.

  455. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    Adam:
    Greatjon of Slumber,

    That is sensible, but how many fans want to hear it? WE WANT TO READ THE ENDING FIRST, DAMNIT.

    (Reality bites.)

    True dat.

  456. Adam
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    Greatjon of Slumber,

    And I, for one, will live in eternal optimism until reality forces me to think otherwise. WoW in 2014, and we’ll take it from there…

  457. Ser Tahu
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,
    My mistake, I have never seen him post as “B Cogman” before :P.

    Also, something that is really annoying me is how many people are getting such an iconic line wrong.
    IT’S NOT “You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children.”
    ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
    It’s “You raped her. You killed her. You murdered her children.”
    Or alternatively “I killed her screaming whelp. Then I raped her. Then I smashed her fucking head in. :P

  458. Ser Endrew Tarth
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    mariamb18,

    Very well put. I always try to think of the show as a seperate entity, and do enjoy some well placed surprises lol. I do my best to not bring negativity to my unsullied family upon viewings. Their casting has been pretty spot on for the most part so I will give this guy the benefit of the doubt. As to his coloring I have no pre conceptions of skin tone lol. I love GRRM’s descriptions of the salty/sandy/stony dornishmen.

    For those belittling Oberyn’s involvement/importance in the upcoming plot…

    The rising tension in KL Reach vs. Dorne and Cersei hates them all lol; if Loras joins KG and Cersei is available again we may see Tywin proposing a match Cersei+Vipe(Viper tells Tyrion about this in the book); His first conversation, and the one one later in Tyrion’s cell have the most incredible dialogue; The prince arrives at KL with a serious agenda, the scenes between The Viper and Tywin Lannister will be emmy worthy; N2M we will most likely get to atttend the dinner Tywin/Oberyn/Mace Tyrell which was offscreen in the book; THIS TRIO AGAIN AS JUDGES IN THE TRIAL!; The Battle with the Mountain in all it’s glory will be the icing on the cake! Unfortunate bystander and all lol.

  459. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 11:14 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu:
    Ours is the Fury,
    My mistake, I have never seen him post as “B Cogman” before :P.

    Also, something that is really annoying me is how many people are getting such an iconic line wrong.
    IT’S NOT “You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children.”
    ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
    It’s “You raped her. You killed her. You murdered her children.”
    Or alternatively “I killed her screaming whelp. Then I raped her. Then I smashed her fucking head in. :P

    Lighten up bro, after all, how many years have people been saying “Play it again, Sam.” ?

  460. Ser Tahu
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

    Greatjon of Slumber,
    Well, aside from minor storylines (like Brienne’s), it is highly unlikely that AFfC and ADwD stuff will be started in season 4, and most of the major storylines from those two books can’t really be compressed so much that they would fit in a single season. I believe that 9 seasons is the sweet spot; seasons 5 and 6 for AFfC and ADwD (with 6 containing some TWoW stuff in minor storylines like Bran’s), 7 = TWoW (and maybe some final elements from ADwD such as Barristan’s last chapter. I believe that season 6 will end with Stannis vs the Bolton’s, while season 7 will open with the battle of Meereen, they can’t be in the same season for budgetary reasons). 8 = 50% TWoW, 50% ADoS. 9 = ADoS (finale). I think that the 8 season figure has been thrown out there with the assumption that TWoW and ADoS can be fit into one season each (an assumption that I don’t think will end up being true).

  461. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 11:22 pm | Permalink

    Zack,

    Yeah, I was wondering about his height as well. The RV has a commanding presence on horseback, in the field and in the room. I hope Pedro gets the RV’s swaggar right! Also, I hope he isn’t built like the actor that plays Loras Tyrell, who I still can’t believe can wield a longsword or a heavy lance….IMHO that actor is completely underwhelming as a warrior and seems to be better suited as a sword-swallower. By the way, I believe he will die in S4…having him go to Dragonstone to become another Wilas would be silly….unless his injury was another shell game…

    One thing that I find compelling about the casting is that they usually get the “warrior-aspect” right. Ned was perfect, and Jorah, Barristan, Hound, Bronn, Brienne, Jon, and Jaime, Beric, and Arya are excellent but there have been some noticable miscues, like Gregor and Loras (I’m still on the fence regarding Daario). Hopefully, this guy is more of the “Bronn” warrior than the “Loras” warrior.

  462. Zack
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

    Man all y’all silly.

    This is ridiculousness. Some deep breathing exercises would probably be a good idea for a few here, haha.

    I was just like “Oh shit we have a name and a face! And he’s not British! I am officially HYPED.”

    I’m not saying I won’t possibly perhaps be disappointed later on if it turns out this guy doesn’t ooze the RV’s charisma like he needs to. But how about waiting and seeing. Eh whatever I guess. I’d certainly have had a few words if this were Purefoy (who I’ve nothing against, but he’s not the RV). So…

  463. Turncloak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 11:35 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    Loras is completely alive and healthy in my opinion. Cersei is just an idiot and bought that whole acting job by margaery “dieing is not dead”. The Tyrells are playing Cersei for a fool

  464. Khal-A-Bunga
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 11:37 pm | Permalink

    After this guy knocks it out of the park next season, at least this thread will be good for a laugh.

  465. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    Glad I’m not alone in wondering about that…so many shell games!

  466. Zack
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    Well, personally I wouldn’t count Finn Jones as Loras among the handful of miscast actors, I never saw Loras as a beefy guy in my mind, and certainly people on the slender side can have plenty of strength, and fighting skill. (As a fan of kung fu films)

    The reason I am curious about the height is because I want to be able to envision THE SCENE, in my mind. I don’t think I’ll be upset no matter what the height is because camera trickery can do wonders. I’m just curious.

  467. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 11:49 pm | Permalink

    Zack,

    Yes…the kung fu dudes are toned and well-defined which would be great for LT (sort of like Grey Worm’s build)…but that Finn Jones is just a twig. Oh well, no matter…all is good.

  468. Unbowd UnbentUnHodor
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

    Some of these comments make me sick. Its not only how someone ‘looks’ it’s how they act. He obviously got the role because Nina Gold, D&D and whoever else is involved was impressed by him. I trust them because they’ve chosen the best of the best and every character to me has been up to the standard I have and beyond. Just have faith! Also when he gets make up, costume, wig and whatever else I’m sure it’ll be amazing.

  469. Wolfheart
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

    As he looks currently no. If they actually give him long lustrous black hair and bronze or olive skin then maybe a little more. As for his acting. We’ll have to see.

    They screwed up Daario and Edmure for looks. Whats not saying they wont make the same mistake again.

  470. Turncloak
    Posted June 28, 2013 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

    Here’s a link of Pedro Pascal in Nikita. He plays the rouge named Liam that Nikita and company are trying to kill. I was not really blown away. I hope the red viper audition video leaks so I can get a better sense of the actor ;)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqgACO8OZKY

  471. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:05 am | Permalink

    Conan Stevens wrote on his website regarding returning to the role of Gregor, and of course the character’s big scene in S4:

    I am aware of the fight with a certain snakey character.

    It and the tourney scene are the defining moments of Gregors character, a time to show the audience why the mention of Gregors name is so frightening when he is not around.

    I had to take this into consideration in the tourney scene if I was to play Gregor true to the books, and the intent of the character, and more importantly for me to keep the character the same over the span over several years filming.

    If this scene is kept in the TV series I will watch it with interest to see how it is played by Mr. Whyte, it will be good to see how an actor with a different background to myself approaches this scene.

    http://www.conanstevens.com/acting-movies-tv-film/tall-actor-blog/answers-on-got-gregor-clegane-for-fan-emails.html

  472. Chickenduck
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:07 am | Permalink

    Wolfheart:
    As he looks currently no. If they actually give him long lustrous black hair and bronze or olive skin then maybe a little more. As for his acting. We’ll have to see.

    They screwed up Daario and Edmure for looks. Whats not saying they wont make the same mistake again.

    Seriously? Edmure on the show looks perfect.

    Daario on the show is different to book Daario, but book Daario would look ridiculous.

  473. Vikestad
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:10 am | Permalink

    Wolfheart,

    I’m so tired of people like you. Never anything of substance to contribute

  474. KG
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:12 am | Permalink

    arden,

    There’s nothing wrong with pointing out that sometimes, the emperor really IS naked. Someone has to, or else all we have here is an embarrassing fanboy circle-jerk.

    In short, I deeply dislike watching everyone parroting each other.
    For example: “James Purefoy for EVERY ROLE ON THE SHOW! DO IT NOW, D&D NOOOWWWWWWWW!” (repeat at least forty times for every role in every casting thread for the past four years.)

    I watch the show religiously, and recommend it to all my friends. I lend my books to anyone who asks, in hope of creating new fans.

    I do not like the Dorne storylines at all. I make no secret of that. Personally, I can’t understand why anyone would dislike the Iron Islands sequences, but … it’s a free country.

    Other than that, I’d wager 99% of my negative comments are about the behavior of the *other people* on this site.

    Fanboyism is embarrassing. Why can’t we discuss a TV show without acting like pimple-faced geeks eating Cheetos on mom’s couch?

  475. Miles
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:20 am | Permalink

    No problem with how he looks. It takes some of the excitement away knowing we don’t have a mountain going into the second half of book 3 tho. How can you replace an important character with someone who doesnt look remotely similar and barely speaks? Ugh, the non-book readers I watch the show with don’t even know who the mountain is.

  476. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:27 am | Permalink

    Unbowd UnbentUnHodor:
    Some of these comments make me sick. Its not only how someone ‘looks’ it’s how they act. He obviously got the role because Nina Gold, D&D and whoever else is involved was impressed by him. I trust them because they’ve chosen the best of the best and every character to me has been up to the standard I have and beyond. Just have faith! Also when he gets make up, costume, wig and whatever else I’m sure it’ll be amazing.

    Yes! They have yet to truly miscast anybody. Even when somebody looks differently than I pictured (Stannis) the performance sells it. People just like to complain I guess. Even though Ian Whyte is too thin for the Mountain, he gets so much undeserved negativity that I’m now firmly on his side. It’s backlash against the backlash.

  477. JamesL
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:36 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    I doubt you will be hearing that in the show. Certain things work fine in the books but sound cheesy on film, kind of like the battle cries in the books that people yell out like “Winterfell!”

  478. Gatorfisch
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    SerCountryFriedSteak,

    How much darker would he need to be to satisfy you? He is a POC…and he doesn’t look “white”. What more do you need? I am truly questioning that…most Hispanics and Middle Easterners are not that dark. I just don’t get it. Honestly. I wonder how many people truly understand the amount of diversity there is within any one ethnic group…

  479. Phil
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:38 am | Permalink

    Alex,

    Well the last part of my comment was supposed to be semi-joking, you can picture the characters any way you desire, but **cough**theDornishareclearlyhispanic**cough**. Oh… Sorry… again

  480. Ashton Lee
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:38 am | Permalink

    They better fucking give him long hair.

  481. Caravaggio
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:44 am | Permalink

    Awesome! So frigging excited. With this actor being cast, I’m confident with the groundwork the showrunners are laying for Dorne.

    And, whew, are there a lot of idiots in this fandom! The guy is Chilean, and people are complaining he’s “too light-skinned”? Do these people have any idea how racist they sound?

    Also, I’m all for the “Edward James Olmos for Doran Martell” campaign. Admiral Adama as the leader of the one, truly independent of the Seven Kingdoms? YES.

  482. Dennis Plane
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:49 am | Permalink

    I just came here to see all the ensuing whining following this announcement.

    WiC doesn’t disappoint. Unless something crazy happens,or you’re on the production team this is the guy they felt was best for the part, so this is the guy that is going to play the Red Viper.

    Welcome to Game of Thrones Mr. Pascal, count me me as someone excited to see you play the role!

  483. Delta1212
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:57 am | Permalink

    JR:
    Josh Parker,

    Not a teenagerand certainly would never watch Dr. Who.Im am American and we have plenty of great options here like Justified & Breaking Bad instead of watching a silly show like Dr. Who. I’ve watched Deadwood, the Wire, & the Sopranos and I guess I have a much higher bar than you.

    I love Deadwood, The Wire and Sopranos. I can’t wait for Breaking Bad to start up again. I never miss a season of Mad Men. I could probably give you a solid break down of the best and worst seasons of any half decent drama that’s been on either HBO or Showtime in the last decade and a few less than half decent ones. I can do the same for most quality cable dramas in the same time period, though I admittedly haven’t gotten through all of those yet, and several British shows on top of that. In fact, it’s rare for me to run into someone that I can’t have an intelligent conversation with about their favorite show (unless it’s something like Big Brother).

    Doctor Who is a good show.

  484. Arthur
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:03 am | Permalink

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh,

    Wow,

    This news from Conan Stevens site IMO is just screaming at D&D to hire him. He has stated he read all the books (done his homework) and he is an unemployed “beach bum.”

    And at the sametime he is being respectful to that Ian (season 2 mountain) guy…

    With this Conan Stevens revelation I would say the ball is in D&Ds court. If D&D want Conan Stevens back for season 4 he is there for the taken…

    However, I feel Ian is probably still under contract so the Red Viper vs Mountain fight will be a total laughable joke with The Beanpole playing The Mountain…

    Such a pitty…

  485. Ser Tahu
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:03 am | Permalink

    Caravaggio,
    I too am in support of the Edward James Olmos for Doran campaign. Given how they have cast the Red Viper, he definitely has the look for Doran. As for his acting ability, the only thing I have seen him in is Dexter, and from what I can pull of the role.

    To the person who suggested Giancarlo Esposito; I personally want him to play Brown Ben Plumm, assuming he hasn’t been cut from the show entirely. As for his role in Revolution, I am fairly certain that there wouldn’t be any scheduling conflicts.

    Completely off-topic: I just started watching Silk, and it already has Maester Aemon and Alliser Thorne in it. I love seeing GoT actors in other series’ :D

    Arthur,
    Well, Ian Whyte has been there since season 1 in prosthetic roles (such as White Walkers and the Giant in season 3). So the impression that I got as to his appearance as Gregor in season 2 is that it was a last minute. They realised that Conan couldn’t come back for the seconds season so were in a rush to find someone tall who looked roughly similar to play the role, saw Ian doing nothing, and shoved him in armour. So given that Ian will still be around doing prosthetic stuff in season 4 contracts won’t likely be an issue. But it means that there are also two ways to go about it; the first would be to get Conan back since contracts won’t be an issue, and the second would be to just use Ian since he is already around (like with season 2). I personally hope for the former, as he really conveyed Gregor’s inner rage. Also, whenever I mention Gregor/the Mountain to my non-reader friends, they always say ‘oh, you mean that guy that chopped the horses head off’, never ‘that Lannister guy from season 2.’

  486. KnightsofDany
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:12 am | Permalink

    Ive not seen his work, the casting has been fantastic so i trust the team. As for the look, the skin color is a non issue, Ill wait to see him in full costume and hear him speak before i judge. but for now i approve

  487. Valkano Eros
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:17 am | Permalink

    He looks like a Chilean Liam Neeson, and I’m totally fucking cool with that.

  488. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:20 am | Permalink

    Conan is not coming back. By now the cast is likely set and they are getting ready to do read-throughs and begin filming next week. Conan screwed up. Ian will do fine once he is in full armor.

  489. eetrebor
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:32 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Are there any clips where he speaks with an accent? In that Nikita clip he sounded American.

    I don’t think there will be a specific Dornish accent (Spanish or the like) except for maybe for the Orphans of the Greenblood (if included, since they did not assimilate to Westerosi/Dornish society). I assume the high-born families (Martells, Daynes) will use a British accent much like the rest of Westeros.

  490. Kentobeans
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:46 am | Permalink

    b

  491. eetrebor
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:50 am | Permalink

    With longer hair + armor he’ll look pretty close to Amok’s portrait of Oberyn: http://i.imgur.com/6eaqRAC.jpg

  492. MadGez
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:54 am | Permalink

    cozmeesah,

    Well said.

    Can’t believe the reaction of many here. I’m glad they didn’t go dark skinned. And no need for any big name actor.

    Its not called acting for nothing. He’ll look the oart when he needs to. You people do know that Lena is a brunette right? And that Mark Addy doesn’t usually have a beard and is often in comedic roles?? These actors were not posing as GOT characters in their head shots.

    Give him a chance.

  493. MadGez
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:55 am | Permalink

    Oh and Nina Gold’s record has been perfect so far.

  494. Ser Tahu
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 2:06 am | Permalink

    MadGez,

    Almost perfect. *cough* Mance *cough*. But yes, in Nina Gold I trust.

  495. Ser Lyonel the Laughing Storm
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 2:15 am | Permalink

    Damn surprised by the hate especially after the new picture, give the guy a shot

  496. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 2:19 am | Permalink

    eetrebor,

    Roy Dotrice sure did roll his R’s when speaking as Oberyn in the audiobook. I’m hoping for a Spanish accent just to further differentiate Dorne from the rest of Westeros.

  497. Drewr15
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 2:22 am | Permalink

    natehilk,

    Me too. I always pictured Dorne as more like Italy where the northerners are fair skinned and light haired and southerners are dark haired and darker skin.
    the casting has been so on for so many roles that I have faith in whoever they choose.

  498. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 2:30 am | Permalink

    I found a link to the full TV movie ‘Burn Notice: The Fall Of Sam Axe’ where Pedro is speaking with a Spanish accent.

    http://viooz.co/movies/399-burn-notice-the-fall-of-sam-axe-2011.html

    Skip ahead to about the 10 and 20 minute marks to hear his accent. I’d say he can pull it off.

  499. Frederick Palowaski
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 2:40 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu:
    My mistake, I have never seen him post as “B Cogman” before :P.

    Also, something that is really annoying me is how many people are getting such an iconic line wrong.
    IT’S NOT “You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children.”
    ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
    It’s “You raped her. You killed her. You murdered her children.”
    Or alternatively “I killed her screaming whelp. Then I raped her. Then I smashed her fucking head in. :P

    You might want to take another look at that scene.

  500. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 2:50 am | Permalink

    I am jumping on the Edward James Olmos for Doran bandwagon.

  501. Ser Tahu
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:04 am | Permalink

    Frederick Palowaski,
    Lol. My bad :P.

  502. Bran The Builder
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:18 am | Permalink

    Bowl Of Brown Chef,

    That would really be awesome. Pretty close to what I imagined Arianne would be like.

  503. zambi76
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:18 am | Permalink

    I can already see an Oberyn/Loras flirting/bedding scene incoming for season 4… wait for that shitstorm.

    Oberyn/Loras? Pffft, how quaint. How about some Oberyn/Mace hate-sex? All the Tyrell blood is running quite warm, eh? ;o)

    As for stealing boyfriends, I can totally see Oberyn berating Loras for stealing Renly from him.

  504. Red Hound
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:23 am | Permalink

    Just so I understand correctly…the complaints about this cast news is that he’s not dark coloured enough?

  505. JRR Tzolkin
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:23 am | Permalink

    Pau Soriano: Lol again with the latino thing….a Latino is a mix of white european with central/south american aborigen, dornishmen are a mix of white european and moor/arabic/bereber, maybe indian, but never american…

    Spanish people are NOT latinos, speaking spanish doesn’t make you latino ;)

    He looks like a dornishman though, but of the “spanish” looking ones…they couldn’t have gone with a “whiter” look…Natalia or Oona look more the part ;)

    Actually, speaking Spanish does make you a Latino/a.

    In the dictionary of the Real Academia de la Lengua Española (the ultimate authority in the Spanish tongue) definition #7 of the word “Latino” estates that a Latino/a is:

    “Natural de los pueblos de Europa y América en que se hablan lenguas derivadas del latín.” (translation: Native of European and American nations where tongues derived from Latin are spoken). You can find the original here: http://lema.rae.es/drae/?val=Latino

    This means anyone who speaks Spanish is Latino, regardless of the color of their skin…and French, Italian, Portuguese and Romanian, for that matter. Anyone born in a country where the native tongue derives from Latin is obviously a Latino.

    One thing Latino is not, however, is a race/ethnicity, as many posts here would seem to suggest. There’s not only plenty of white folk who are Latinos in Europe, but there’s many and more here in Latin America as well. Being one myself, I know this for a fact.

  506. eetrebor
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:36 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I just don’t think having a Spanish accent would make sense, the Dornish speak Common (natively) just like the rest of Westeros. In GoT/ASOIAF, Common = British English….therefore a (regional?) British accent makes the most sense. Just like they’ve done with The North.

    There is a mention in the books of a “Dornish Drawl” FWIW…

  507. Red Hound
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:37 am | Permalink

    JRR Tzolkin: Actually, speaking Spanish does make you a Latino/a.
    One thing Latino is not, however, is a race/ethnicity, as many posts here would seem to suggest. There’s not only plenty of white folk who are Latinos in Europe, but there’s many and more here in Latin America as well. Being one myself, I know this for a fact.

    Your last paragraph holds the issue at hand. The term “Latin America” is quite recent, just 150 years old, and because that’s how language evolves, it has become that people from South (and certain areas of Central) America are “latinos”. So a Puertorrican that was born and grew up in Florida is a “latino”, because his origins are Latin America.

    All these things just add to confusion, like, you can be Spanish without being from Spain? Not a Spaniard though.

    It all works fine in the Spanish (from Spain) language, but English language seems to have added lots of different terms that make everything very confusing. We had a similar discussion recently as “Americans” are, technically, citizens from America including Chileans, Canadians, etc. but the term is basically only used for citizens of USA. “Hispanic America” is another fun term.

    EDIT : I guess it all comes to simplicity. Why discuss what he is and not just say that he’s Chilean? “Eastern Asian”, “Latino”, “Nordic”. Instead of making things easier, we make them more confusing in the end, especially now when people are constantly moving around the planet.

  508. Caravaggio
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:43 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu:
    Caravaggio,
    I too am in support of the Edward James Olmos for Doran campaign… As for his acting ability, the only thing I have seen him in is Dexter, and from what I can pull of the role.

    Ah, a shame you didn’t catch his turn as Admiral William Adama in the revived Battlestar Galactica that ran from 2003 to 2009. It was the finest performance of his career! It features the hallmarks of what would make his Doran compelling: brooding, pragmatic, a long-game chess player, and tempestuous but ultimately respectful relationships with son and daughter figures.

    A shame Conan Stevens won’t make it back. I dearly hope Ian Whyte bulks up for the role. The spry, lithe, and agile Oberyn taking on the lumbering, towering, rampaging Gregor is a visual that made the duel the best in the books.

  509. Mar
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:46 am | Permalink

    NYurac,

    Parece que es verdad el dicho que hay un chileno en todas partes. Estamos a un paso de dominar el mundo xDD

    Also, is so interesting read people debating about our ethnic composition or how ‘white’ we are.
    Sooo funny.

  510. Mar
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:47 am | Permalink

    NYurac,

    Parece que es verdad el dicho de que en todas partes hay algún chileno. Estamos a un paso de dominar el mundo xDD

    And is so interesting read people debating about our ethnic composition or how ‘white’ we are.
    Sooo funny.

  511. sCor
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:49 am | Permalink

    D&D seem to know exactly how the Red Viper is supposed to be. If he really does the job effortlessly then I can’t wait to see him on screen.

  512. Ser Tahu
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:57 am | Permalink

    eetrebor,
    You don’t need a British accent to speak British English. The Dornish could have any accent the producers want them to have, as long as it makes sense in the universe and they speak the common tongue. And given Dorne’s relative separation from the other kingdoms, it makes sense for them to speak with a non-British European accent. And just for the record, the books (and therefore the common tongue) are in American English.

    Caravaggio,
    Battlestar Galactica is on my list of shows that I want to watch, so I will get around to it eventually, but if his character is as you have described him, then that only increases the likelihood of Olmos eventually landing the role. And although it is admittedly unlike, as I said it is still possible for Conan to return (and I really hope he does. My main complaint with Ian Whyte was not his physical build, but the fact that he did not convey the great inner rage that flows through Gregor while Conan got that across brilliantly).

  513. Jacob_M
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:02 am | Permalink

    Sunny: They better not do brownface…. I swear to God I will hit something.

    I had personally imagines someone Persian (usually very pale sans sunlight) or perhaps Indian but give this guy Natures Brownface – He looks like he may tan easy and Dorne is hot and sunny – With his dark eyes and dyeing his hair black and he may look the part.

  514. eetrebor
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:18 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    I know that they can choose to do whatever they want with accents. What I’m saying is that I don’t think a Spanish/non-British accent makes sense in-universe for the Dornish (whereas such accents make sense for the Braavosi, Lorathi, Asshai’i, etc). Would you expect the Daynes to have a Spanish accent too? Or the Yronwoods? There is clearly an identifiable Dornish accent/drawl/manner of speech in the books, but what exactly that is or if they are even going to bother with it is for D&D to decide.

  515. Nic
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:22 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    Agree completely.

    I’m baffled by some of the comments here. People complaining that Pedro isn’t dark enough? Bizarre. I always pictured Dorne as a sort of Moorish Spain. Pedro is Latino so he fits perfectly IMO.

  516. NomadicDirewolf
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:28 am | Permalink

    As much as people are criticizing this, I pretty much knew they’d cast an unknown in this role, due to the fact that there are a lack of famous actors who suit the description who are not to famous to play the role. I mean, lets be honest, but people like Oded Fehr, and Naveen Andrews, and this is just what i get the impression of, aren’t even famous amongst those who are really into tv and film, like ciaran hinds was famous. In terms of ethnicity, i dont see what people are complaining about, this guy was just about how i imagined the martells, anything from him to oded fehr’s skin tone. For those who imagined them with darker skin, the martells are described as salty dornishmen, who “are lithe and dark, with smooth olive skin and long black hair” and i’d say that guy has olive skin, those who have darker skin would fit more into the sandy dornishmen category. To be honest the favourites for this role never really impressed me so much that i’d say i really want them for that role, so I prefer they went with this guy. Nina Gold, given the vast amounts of casting does, has done an outstanding job in creating the best cast in television and the best i’ve ever seen on the screen. So I trust the showmakers who have spent hours and hours casting this role over fans who’ve only seen a couple of films or tv shows with people they think would be better at it

  517. darquemode
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:29 am | Permalink

    Agreed.
    I think Dorne being such a sunny place does mean actors should get some sun (real or fake) for the role. That just makes sense to me guess and I do not consider it “brown face”

    Look at Pascal in this photo and he looks good with a little suntan! Compared to the pale boy he looks olie skinned or maybe it’s summer and he is tan. Who knows.

    I saw Pascal the last 2 week’s episode of Graceland ad he had very dark hair. Two other things I did notice re-watching that scene today… Pedro Pascal does look at least 40 years old easily and he is more slender than some of the photos make him out to be. Both points increased my ability to see him as Oberyn honestly.

    Anyone that wants to see VERY recent work of his check out “Graceland” on USA Network where he plays Juan Badillo. (Mike’s FBI handler)
    - He first appears in Episode 1×02 ‘Guadalajara Dog ‘ at about 13 minutes into the episode.
    - In Episode 1×03 ‘Heat Run’ he appears about 1 or 12 minutes in.

  518. Josla
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:37 am | Permalink

    Mike:
    Clearly people are over-thinking things. How ’bout you just watch the show, if the actor does well in his or her role, then awesome! When I watch it, I’m not humming on saying “Oh well, this person should be black, and this person should be etc..” All these choices I’d imagine have to get at least some input from GRRM. So.. what does that tell you? Too many people hung up on trivial details, or just plain want to nit pick about everything..

    This^
    I have never been a follower of any show but GOT before and even with a show like this I don’t really post or read posts on a daily basis, so I’m not sure wether all fans of other shows are like this or not. When I read the reactions to the season finale in another post I almost couldn’t believe it. I am olive skinned. I’m very sensitive to any kind discrimination, but watching a show and accusing the showrunners of that because the majority of the cast is white and then again because the group of slaves was darker is just nonsense.

    I have never watched anything on tv or movies and thought: “hey! There are not enough darker skinned people in it! That’s racist!” So I’m utterly surprised with some of the posters here, specially the ones who think they can do a better job with the show than D&D. No wonder Mr. Cogman’s comment was simply “wow”, that was my first reaction as well.

  519. Rhys
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:38 am | Permalink

    The only thing I’m concerned about at this point is what they decide to about his accent. Clearly he is Chilean who often acts on American TV with an American accent. Neither American nor South American accents would be ideal.

  520. sunaeryn
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:49 am | Permalink

    I didn’t remember this guy from The Good Wife, so I just re-watched a few of his scenes on DVD. Needless to say, I am NOT happy.

    They are really scraping the barrel here. Imo, he neither looks right, nor has the gravitas, charisma or, quite frankly, the acting chops to pull off the role.

    I call miscast, but we shall see.

  521. darquemode
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:57 am | Permalink

    Rhys,

    I’m wondering about the accent too, but it is not a big concern for me really. More of a curiosity. Casting an American (South, Central or North) did throw me for a bit of a loop for that reason.

    I’ve always wondered how they will play Dorne on the series culturally, their look and sound. I think we got a hint of how they plan to have the Martells look, but they easily could cast a Mediterranean or North African/ Berber Doran or Arianne. Of course they could cast all Latino actors too.

    The accent though, that is still a complete unknown!

  522. Dorian
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:00 am | Permalink

    How are how many Sand Snakes he might have had even remotely significant. The show will mention one or two at best, and you might see one at most.

  523. Pate
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:11 am | Permalink

    Carlos Ubilla,

    UYUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUYYY jajajaaj, quedé plop!

  524. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:19 am | Permalink

    Bard: So he is a WPOC. A “white person of color”. ;)

    You just won the internet ;)

    I’m really happy they didn’t go the indian/sub-saharian/more dark route. If they chose a white guy for Oberyn that means Dorne will be white/olive oil, like all the mediterranean is, and like I pictured Dorne to be, because that is what it is. So no Danny Trejo, Idriss Elba, Naveen Andrews etc

    The only weird thing is that Talisa looks Dornish now (maybe a sandsnake in disguise? hehehe, I’m sure that theory would have arised had she survived), but doesn’t really matter now does it? ;)

  525. Gorrean
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:37 am | Permalink

    A bit too baby-faced for me, but nothing that some make-up cannot change on screen.
    I’ll hold my judgment on future dornish characters until I watch the upcoming seasons, but I truly hope that HBO will seize the opportunity to better represent a wide range of ethnicities. And yes, middle-eastern and indian actors would be welcome for a change!

  526. Highgardener
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:43 am | Permalink

    Can I just say something funny

    Vinnie Jones as Areo :P

  527. ph2586
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:51 am | Permalink

    Hey I know a good way to save some money to cast a more famous actor….
    Let’s fire Nina Gold and instead make a poll on WiC and Westeros to see who we need to cast!!!!!

    And cast me as Ellaria Sand because I look like her even though I can not even act in a childrens’ play. I wiil send a picture…

    GOT is No1 TV show right now. EVERYBODY wants to be in it. That means for a big role like Oberyn the line for the auditions would be counted in km. With people of ALL colors. And that guy beat them all. So I want to see how he plays the swagger of the red viper. GIVE HIM A CHANCE.

    I always pictured Oberyn like Olivier Martinez. But in my mind it had the swagger described in the books. That doesn’t mean this actor actually has it in real life. So I trust them to cast anyone who has that special way of carrying themselves (because this is more rare to find than looks) even if he doesn’t ‘look’ like the Oberyn in our imagination….

  528. Gaius Baltar
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 6:05 am | Permalink

    Very happy with casting and fact they went Dornish are Spaniards route. And POC crowd can be happy too since he is latino. It should be win-win for all, no idea why is here still so much complaining. Ofcourse i predict if Nina cast spanish actors for Doran or Arianne, perfectly in synch with this guy and books, another shitstorm will be created.

    I mean really, how could socially progressive and openly promiscuous Dornish resemble Arabs? Also Indian actors would look out of place as Westerosi, especially since many characters from Essos (Ilyrio, Varys, Kraznys, Mellisandre, Thoros, Dario) are completely white.

  529. Arkash
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    We now know that Matt Smith is an awesome Doctor and if anything, has surpassed Tennant.

    Wouldnt say that, but I see your point ! Matt Smith was grandiose !

    Let’s hope Pedro Pascal will be amazing as well as the Red Viper.

  530. darquemode
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    Highgardener,

    Ha! XD
    I was thinking Vinnie Jones as Styr!

  531. Ser Tahu
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 6:31 am | Permalink

    eetrebor,
    I agree, it would not make sense for the Daynes or, to a lesser extent, the Yronwoods to have non-British accents because geographically they are literally on the border with the Reach and the rest of Westeros. As for the Martells, however, it does make sense because they are on the far end of the peninsular, and given how independent Dorne was (and still is, to some extent) they would not have had much interaction with the rest of the Seven Kingdoms. It only makes sense that over the thousands of years that they have been separate and independent that they would have developed a vastly different accent (and in this case, a non-British accent).

    sunaeryn,
    What is his character like in The Good Wife? I haven’t seen the show, but perhaps that character he plays isn’t supposed to have charisma or gravitas. Not everyone on this earth has charisma, and so it would be stupid if every character on tv did.

  532. darquemode
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 6:36 am | Permalink

    Pau Soriano,

    I always felt Talisa was based Nymeria Sand personality and appearance wise than she was based on Jeyne Westerling!
    - Daughter of a noblewoman from Volantis. Check
    - Black hair pulled back in a braid, high cheekbones, full lips and dark eyes. Check
    - Extremely skilled with blades. Check.
    - Talks about watching siblings play in something not dissimilar from water gardens…..
    Oona is even about the right age is we age up the role as the series does in the majority of cases.

    I wondered (still do) if Talisa was an homage to Lady Nym because the role of Nymeria was going to be cut from the series….. Even if Nymeria Sand does make the show I bet a name change is in order since the show already has/ had a Nymeria.

  533. Gely Stinker
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 6:39 am | Permalink

    Hodor

  534. Phil
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 6:58 am | Permalink

    I am disappointed. Not what I imagined at all.

  535. Sansa's Lemoncakes
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    All those proclaiming how he’s perfect and all us critics will be eating our words in a year have about as much context for their opinions as the rest of us. There’s nothing to suggest that their first impressions are any more valid than the critics’, so maybe some of those high-horse riders can get back down to ground level and seriously consider WHY many of us have reservations.

    For all the talk about this show’s “perfect casting”, I’ll counter that there have been several less than great casting choices. Interesting to note that almost all of them have fallen in the youngish male range, into which this guy falls. Off the top of my head:

    Jon Snow (kind of fits the character but that doesn’t make his scenes any less of a drag)
    Loras (just a mediocre actor)
    Renly (yes, they went in a different direction with TV Renly but the charisma was lacking)
    Daario (another character who’s supposed to be charismatic but comes across as forced and rather bland)

    With this in mind , none of the clips or visuals of this guy suggest he’s right for the role of a Moorish-flavoured character who radiates charisma and sensuality (as well as someone who looks old enough to have fathered several adult daughters). I suspect another misfire.

    Regarding whitewashing, my concerns can be summed up in the following points:

    -Moorish Spain is a different beast to modern Spain and there would be a heavy North African influence, particularly the sandy Dornishmen who would be analogous to mixed race white/Arabs.

    -Dorne needs to be visually and culturally distinct from the already Mediterranean-flavoured TV version of King’s Landing.

    - The show could really benefit from some diverse casting after that Mhysa mess and the general orientalist overtones of the Essos storylines.

    -Chilean/Latino is not an ethnicity so this casting does not win diversity brownie points when Pascal is plainly either white or a white-passing Latino.

  536. Maginor
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:11 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    It would make sense for the Daynes and Yronwoods to speak very different languages from the Reach though. Compare Breton with French or Welsh with English or Catalan (or worse, Basque) with Castilian Spanish. That is more than mere accent differences, all within countries that are much smaller than Westeros. What does not make sense is that all of the Seven Kingdoms speak the same language at all (even beyond the wall) given the size of the continent. But I get why G.R.R.M didn’t want to bother to make that a factor. It would have hampered the storytelling quite a bit.

  537. oblivious
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    Not my ideal Oberyn, but I’m looking forward to see him in action with costume and makeup. I’m also happy to see that they are going to be open with his sexuality as D&D’s quote suggests.  

  538. Eljuma
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    HBO casts Moroccans as Ghiscari – Racist

    HBO casts South Americans as Dornish – Racist

    With all due respect: Fuck off.

  539. Mormegil
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    First Pic on this page could give a taste of how the Mountain/Viper duel might play out.

    https://files.nyu.edu/sw1/public/fivescenes_photos.html

  540. DavosDrivesTheBoat
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    He has a little Eric Bana in him as well.

  541. babar
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    Sansa’s Lemoncakes: With this in mind , none of the clips or visuals of this guy suggest he’s right for the role of a Moorish-flavoured character who radiates charisma and sensuality

    That’s what acting is, you know: pretending to be someone that you’re not in real life.

    Your comment is pretty much the same as saying “I saw Heath Ledger in Brokeback Mountain, and NOTHING suggests that he’s right for the role of a crazy psychopath.. hence why he’s totally wrong for the role of the Joker.”

    You don’t like the choice? Big deal. Just give the guy, and Nina Gold and everyone involved in the production of GOT the benefits of the doubt. They certainly deserve that.

  542. squiggle
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    Does this mean the Martells are going to be Hispanic? Good choice, I always pictured them with the Mediterranean look.

  543. Ser Tahu
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    babar: That’s what acting is, you know: pretending to be someone that you’re not in real life.

    Your comment is pretty much the same as saying “I saw Heath Ledger in Brokeback Mountain, and NOTHING suggests that he’s right for the role of a crazy psychopath.. hence why he’s totally wrong for the role of the Joker.”

    ^This. All of This.

  544. Jentario
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    So, who will be cast next? I’m betting on the Magnar of Thenn and that audition video suggests we may see it soon, maybe before Comic Con- where the rest of the big names will be revealed. If Arianne is coming this season (which seems less likely every day) we’re bound to find out at Comic Con, if not we’ll see Ellaria Sand.

  545. NousWanderer
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    Eljuma:
    HBO casts Moroccans as Ghiscari – Racist

    HBO casts South Americans as Dornish – Racist

    With all due respect: Fuck off.

    babar: That’s what acting is, you know: pretending to be someone that you’re not in real life.

    Your comment is pretty much the same as saying “I saw Heath Ledger in Brokeback Mountain, and NOTHING suggests that he’s right for the role of a crazy psychopath.. hence why he’s totally wrong for the role of the Joker.”

    You don’t like the choice? Big deal. Just give the guy, and Nina Gold and everyone involved in the production of GOT the benefits of the doubt. They certainly deserve that.

    +1 to both of you.

  546. Carne
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    Isn’t this what makes the show so great? Nina Gold and the rest picking relatively unknown but talented actors for roles like this? Even the “bigger” names are unfamiliar to the majority of fans. I’m terribly happy they didn’t go for an A-lister (Antonio Banderas, really?).

    I remember all the mixed reactions here and on Westeros when Ed Skrein was announced as Daario. The same people who were negative to him being cast turned positive when he first appeared and had some lines.

    I think people need to calm down and wait to see him in season 4 next year.

  547. Gorrean
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 9:18 am | Permalink
  548. Virtus
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    quadurp:
    What the hell HBO or whoever decided this? I thought the Martells were dark-skinned like some African-Americans. Well, I shouldn’t be surprised of this white washing but I just had my hopes up.

    I guess you haven’t read the books. You do realise that the Targaryens married several Martell women during the history, which means that Daenerys has Martell ancestors – and she is obviously not black or brown. And neither is Aegon, who is half-Martell.

  549. Virtus
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    Sansa’s Lemoncakes: Chilean/Latino is not an ethnicity so this casting does not win diversity brownie points when Pascal is plainly either white or a white-passing Latino.

    You sound very Americacentric. There are more ethnicities in the world than those used by US census.

  550. Sansa's Lemoncakes
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 9:42 am | Permalink

    babar,

    Tell me more about this profession you call acting…

    My point was that he lacks charisma in the clips. That’s not a quality every actor has or can necessarily manufacture. Case in point: the examples I gave of actors in this very show who aren’t necessarily bad actors but fail to convey the magnetism their characters are supposed to have. It’s a quality that’s (mostly) separate from acting skills.

    At any rate, I provided several other reasons in my overly wordy post why I didn’t like the casting beyond my initial impressions of Pascal. People are justifying the whitewashing with “Well, he’s probably an amazing actor so we/tumblr/whoever must just stop complaining,” but the onus then to prove why this guy is so much more better for the part than a charismatic POC who would be visually much more suited to the role.

    As much as I enjoy GoT, it isn’t perfect and us fans have every right to give and withhold the benefit of the doubt as we see fit. With regards to their handling of cast diversity and orientalism, they do not have a good track record. So no, I’m not just going to divorce this casting from its wider context and wait and see before I put my 2cents in along with the rest of GoT fandom.

  551. Sansa's Lemoncakes
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    Virtus,

    Not remotely American, dude. And Chilean is not an ethnicity, as evidenced by the fact that there are white South Americans alongside mestizos. Gisele Bundchen isn’t exactly the same ethnicity as Ronaldo, and they’re both Brazilian as all hell.

  552. Joshua Taylor
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    A lot of people here are whining but some like Sansa’s Lemoncakes are making rational (if a tad mean spirited) reservations about the casting. I am sure that IF Pedro knocks it out of the park the majority of them will not be hesitant to take back what they said. It’s the Internet, home of the knee jerk reaction. I was skeptical when Heath was cast as the Joker but he blew me away. As for the work I’ve seen Pedro in, not much charisma but it takes a certain role to bring out something in an actor they normally don’t give out in their performances. David and Dan said the audition was excellent and while there is evidence that may cause some to doubt their opinion, that is something that could easily backfire on them. Haters are going to hate, but they can change their minds too. What does it matter if their first impressions are negative when the end result is quite the opposite?

  553. Jake Umber
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    tysnow,

    You must have not read the quote. He explicitly says 80 episodes. To think any more than that is only wishful thinking and nothing more. D&D have the best estimation of this show, not only because they’re the ones actually making the show, but they are also know how things are going to go down in the last 2 books. I think everyone ignoring these facts is only distracting from the reality that this show is going to cut ALOT of plotlines and characters moving forward. They must do that for the adaptation, the only question now is how.

  554. loco73
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Blake:
    Anybody want to see this guy’s acting ability?Here you go. http://vimeo.com/18945174

    Oh lord…..

  555. Justice
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Yeah I think he’ll work, looks wise give him a beard and some long hair for sure. Everyone who is complaining, have a little faith! As many have stated, Nina Gold deserves nothing but our trust at this point!

  556. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    loco73: Oh lord…..

    I laughed at that video too, but I have since been told that he is likely auditioning for a stage role in that video. In other words, he is likely overacting on purpose. Towards the end of the video (around 3:26) he’s more red viper-y. I think he’s hamming it up because you have to in stage, so the people in the back can enjoy it too.

    It’s been said he’s either auditioning for this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Celestina or this
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L'Illusion_Comique

  557. Turncloak
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    loco73,

    Lol x). Don’t worry I’m sure his RV audition is much more epic

  558. Turncloak
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    Virtus: You sound very Americacentric. There are more ethnicities in the world than those used by US census.

    BAM. That was checkmate. Poor Ms Lemoncakes. When you play the game of thrones you win or you die, there is no middle ground.

  559. Adrian
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    I don’t understand why people should be worried about getting “diversity brownie points” at all anyway. I also really enjoy the cutesy patronizing condescending term “POC” that self loathing, guilty white people have adopted for their poor, unfortunate, utterly helpless without the aid of magnanimous white people little friends.

    I also enjoy that people are complaining about the kinds of Dornishmen and how Oberyn should look like one type, completely disregarding the fact that he’s specifically mentioned as being one of the OTHER types, the kind with olive skin, dark hair, and dark eyes.

    HOW in the world can people not understand that it’s WAY more racist to go “Well these minorities will never accomplish anything on their own if I, the benevolent white man, don’t hand them opportunities at every turn, deserved or not,” than to say “I will give this opportunity to the person who deserves it most, regardless of their race or ethnicity?”

  560. the other guy
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    I still think Naveen Andrews would have been great in the part (and to the haters : he’s a good actor, deal with it), but I assume he was too expansive. But hey, more money for the Blackwater-like battle at the wall in episode 9, with CGI mammoths and giants ? Hell yeah.

  561. Rhys
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    I saw Bryan Cranston in Malcolm in the Middle and there is no way he can pull of a serious dramatic role like a badass drug dealer.

  562. Bryan Cogman
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    “clearly a white-passing Latino”.

    I’ll say it again, folks. Wow.

  563. Nick_Scryer
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    Surprised they didn’t get a big name actor for this part, hopefully that means this guy was just so good in his audition that they didn’t care about big actors.

    Everything looks Good to me anyway, he doesn’t look exactly as I pictured but either do most of the other characters, he looks a little young but I’m excited to see what he does with the role, Can’t wait to see him in costume and in character.

    Anyone know how tall he is?

  564. joaquin
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap, dude you need to get out of your shell asap

  565. OtherAndrew
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    Bryan Cogman, check out the thread on r/asoiaf for some more positive / reasonable reactions.

    I know it would be easy to come away from this situation with the viewpoint that it’s not even worth trying to please the crazy and irrational “fans.” I’d urge you not to paint everyone with a broad brush. We all might have occasional criticisms, but lots of us want you to pick the best person for the role and are really looking forward to seeing what Pedro will do.

  566. Ser Tahu
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    Nick_Scryer,
    Based on how tall he is compared to other actors in Graceland, my estimate is about 1.75-180.

    Also, to the people saying he isn’t dark enough and that dark skinned people are under-represented on the show: I think he isn’t light enough, Albino people are definitely under-represented on the show and the fact that they didn’t cast Oberyn as Albino despite the fact that he isn’t described as that in the books makes the producers racist. :P

    Bryan Cogman,
    Sorry on behalf of the internet, Bryan. As far as appearance is concerned he matches the books almost perfectly, and I’m sure that he blew you guys away in the audition :P.

  567. GeekFurious
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Guess what?

    Tyrion looks NOTHING LIKE HE DOES IN THE BOOKS!

    Freak out about that.

  568. Nick_Scryer
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu:
    Nick_Scryer,
    Based on how tall he is compared to other actors in Graceland, my estimate is about 1.75-180.

    That’s about 5″9 or so. Pretty good, should be quite a size difference with Mountain.

  569. loco73
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    haltwhogoesthere,

    LOL…don’t worry! I did not make that post to be an ass. I’m not going to freak out and go on an overly long rant…

    By the way, thank you for being nice enough to reply to my all too brief comment! I’ve been coming to this site and posting since either 2008 or 2009…man I can’t remember exactly…how time passes! The really fun part is to interact with other fans, such as yourselves,
    and get their feedback and advice, as in this case.

    My only regret is that I wish they had cast Alexander Siddig in the role of the Red Viper. I looked at some of his stills from “Kingdom Of Heaven”and when all decked in his armour and attire, he really looks, at least to me, what I pictured the Red Viper will look like, never mind that he is a fantastic actor…look at some of his pics…what do you guys think?

    http://ca.ign.com/articles/2006/05/19/siddig-treks-to-nativity

    http://www.hollywood-elsewhere.com/images/column/111206/siddig2.jpg

    http://montages.no/files/2010/07/kingdom3.jpg

    http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsS/5204-26576.gif

    http://content9.flixster.com/photo/37/36/41/3736419_ori.jpg

    http://zakath-nath.joueb.com/images/salad3.jpg

    http://www.zuguide.com/image/Alexander-Siddig-Kingdom-of-Heaven.9.jpg

    I don’t know about you but he was my choice….however there is no way in he’ll I’m going to say anything derogatory, insult or ignorant about Pedro! I want to see him in his role as prince Oberyn Martel aka the Red Viper!

    Besides, confío en Nina Gold…or as we say, in Nina Gold I trust! I wish Pedro good luck, all the best, and welcome to the cast and the GoT fandom

  570. GeekFurious
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Pau Soriano,

    Maybe it’s because I’m American, but I don’t see Latino as ‘white’.

    You’d think being American and surrounded by “Latinos” that you’d know a large number of them are “white”. You know, because the Spanish language was brought over to Latin America via Europeans.

  571. Ser Blount Sarkasm
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    The Red Viper never wore a blue collared shirt or a black vest with so many pouches in the book!

  572. loco73
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    Bryan Cogman,

    I would like to add my voice to apologise for some of the nonsense coming from some people posting some of the brainfarts they think of as insightful comments.

    Sorry Mr Cogman…don’t think less of the rest of us….

  573. Ser Sleez
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    I’m SOOO READY!!!!

  574. Carne
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    1.80 according to his IMDb resume, but agents like to a couple of cm to their clients, so something like 177-178 might be more accurate.

  575. Sansa's Lemoncakes
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    Man, I thought I was putting forward reasoned (even if many people don’t agree with the reasoning) opinions, but I got wowed by Bryan Cogman? Ouch, man.

    Not apologising for the wow-worthy comment though. Colorism exists and people who “pass” do reap the sociological benefits of looking like the majority. Attacking institutional racism here, not the individuals who indirectly benefit.

    Ah well, said my piece and more importantly gave my reasons why I thought so. Y’all can disagree, call me a butthurt fan (or an American!), but maybe take a few seconds to look deeply at WHY a lot of other people are disappointed before dismissing anyone who voices criticism about this casting choice as cartoonish internet trolls or hysterical SJWs.

    Peace out, guys.

  576. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    Gatorfisch:
    SerCountryFriedSteak,

    How much darker would he need to be to satisfy you?He is a POC…

    No he’s NOT a POC…he is white. Being Latino is NOT a race, it’s a ethnicity. It’s not the same. There are black, white, asian latinos

    And spanish are NOT latino. Latinos are in america, Spain is in Europe. Spanish are Hispanic, wich means they speack spanish.

    But ethnicity doesn’t matter a bit in the casting, only race, because u don’t bring your ethnicity to the show, only your race (and your accent…but that you can change as we’ve seen).

    Regarding that, he is great for the part, both due to the race, and probably the accent, wich will be spanish. ;)

  577. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    JRR Tzolkin: Actually, speaking Spanish does make you a Latino/a.

    In the dictionary of the Real Academia de la Lengua Española (the ultimate authority in the Spanish tongue) definition #7 of the word “Latino” estates that a Latino/a is:

    “Natural de los pueblos de Europa y América en que se hablan lenguas derivadas del latín.” (translation: Native of European and American nations where tongues derived from Latin are spoken). You can find the original here: http://lema.rae.es/drae/?val=Latino

    This means anyone who speaks Spanish is Latino, regardless of the color of their skin…and French, Italian, Portuguese and Romanian, for that matter. Anyone born in a country where the native tongue derives from Latin is obviously a Latino.

    One thing Latino is not, however, is a race/ethnicity, as many posts here would seem to suggest. There’s not only plenty of white folk who are Latinos in Europe, but there’s many and more here in Latin America as well. Being one myself, I know this for a fact.

    That’s the definition in spanish!!! Latino in english is not the same than Latino in spanish!! Latino in english =Latinoamericano in spanish, or Latin-american in english. Americans shorten Latin-american to Latino.

    When an american says “this guy is Latino” he doesn’t mean “this guy is romanian” or “this guy is french”. He means “this guy is latin-american”

    You’re welcomed ;)

  578. Holly
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    Well… This is not what I had expected or envisioned, but in Nina Gold we trust!

  579. voiceareason
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    Pau Soriano,

    I don’t know about you, but he looks like he comes from Amerindian stock to me, at least partly. He doesn’t really look caucasian, despite being pale, at least to me anyway.

  580. darquemode
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    Here s Pedro Pascal in Graceland 2 weeks ago.
    You can get a better idea of his acting in a scene and his current look/ build.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvDL9P2KV7k&feature=youtu.be

  581. Selmy
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    Rhys,

    You’ve won the internet for the day.

  582. Ignacia
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    Mar,

    ¡Aquí hay otra chilena más!

    And yes, I find this discussion very weird. In Chile we don’t talk that much about races. There’s very few people of african or east asian heritage. The rest is a mix between spanish and native chilean, and more recent immigrations (s. XIX-XX) have added some drops of middle eastern, croatian, german, italian,etc.

    For instance, one of my best friends looks middle eastern, but also has croatian, french and russian blood (besides the spanish+native all chileans have). It never crossed my mind that someone could consider her of a different race than mine, until I met the internet.

    I think think all this “PoC” thing starts getting very useless once you get to places that have lots of immigration and mixing, and I always pictured Dorne to be like that.

    To me, Pedro Pascal looks like an average chilean guy.

  583. msd
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    Wow: one little word that says so much. It’s the new Hodor.

  584. Daisuke
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    A lot of weird ethnophilia going on here. People should go on national geographic or google, if they want to get their kicks by seeing darker colored people. Clearly Pedro isn’t doing it for them.

    Dorn is obviously Spain, just flip the ASOIAF map sideways and you’re looking at Europe as Westeros and Dorn in the location of Spain. They both hold a key location in connecting one continent to another, so choosing a latino to play the part makes perfect sense.

  585. jentario
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    darquemode:
    Here s Pedro Pascal in Graceland 2 weeks ago.
    You can get a better idea of his acting in a scene and his current look/ build.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvDL9P2KV7k&feature=youtu.be

    The video got wiped.

  586. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    voiceareason,

    People are ripping me, but this is all I’m trying to say. I wouldn’t call him caucasian either. All I was trying to say is that he doesn’t look anything like the actors playing characters from the rest of Westeros.

  587. Jentario
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    tysnow:
    Adam,

    One can only hope, 9 seasons of GoT beats 8 any day.

    8 would be ideal if George finishes the series in time.

  588. WompWomp
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    Ignacia,

    America is largely enslaved by obscenely wealthy white plutocrats and their dark money schemes (not a racial phrase). They thrive on perpetuating the racial myth, primarily by manipulating their struggling brethren in the white underclasses and institutionalizing racism through the undermining of urban communities (See Philadelphia). It’s no wonder the peculiar language that includes “people of color” has survived to this day. I wonder how American English will change once Caucasians are no longer the majority. It’s bound to happen sooner or later.

    I didn’t realize the racial perspective wasn’t a thing in mixed populations until a Colombian friend explains Brazilian culture to me. We really should be referring more to ethnicity rather than “racial” differentiation. It really is insulting the more you think about it.

  589. Jentario
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    msd:
    Wow: one little word that says so much. It’s the new Hodor.

    Wowdor

  590. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    darquemode:
    Pau Soriano,

    I always felt Talisa was based Nymeria Sand personality and appearance wise than she was based on Jeyne Westerling!
    - Daughter of a noblewoman from Volantis. Check
    - Black hair pulled back in a braid, high cheekbones, full lips and dark eyes. Check
    - Extremely skilled with blades. Check.
    - Talks about watching siblings play in something not dissimilar from water gardens…..
    Oona is even about the right age is we age up the role as the series does in the majority of cases.

    I wondered (still do) if Talisa was an homage to Lady Nym because the role of Nymeria was going to be cut from the series….. Even if Nymeria Sand does make the show I bet a name change is in order since the show already has/ had a Nymeria.

    Interesting idea, but I think Talisa looks much more like Lady Nym than Jeyne!! Wich gives your theory even more gravitas ;)

    http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/thumb/9/93/Lady_nym_by_quickreaver.jpg/250px-Lady_nym_by_quickreaver.jpg

    http://images.wikia.com/hieloyfuego/images/5/59/Jeyne_Westerling_by_Amoka.jpg

  591. WompWomp
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Jentario: 8 would be ideal if George finishes the series in time.

    Can’t say much about the tail end of the series, but I still sincerely hope they condense Books 4 & 5 into roughly a reason. GRRM seems awful sure those books will but him plenty of time to stay ahead of the show. I say they won’t, so long as D&D and Co. strive to deliver the best show possible.

    I know, I’m butthurt over ADWD overall. It’s ridiculous. :P

  592. WompWomp
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    Bryan Cogman:
    “clearly a white-passing Latino”.

    I’ll say it again, folks. Wow.

    I hope you’re not just taking the river of garbage to heart, Bryan. It’s pretty unhealthy, vocal minority and all (ha! pun…). I can’t wait to see what you guys saw in Pascal onscreen.

  593. OtherAndrew
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    Sansa’s Lemoncakes,

    Speaking for myself, I just want the producers to cast the best Oberyn they can find. I am sure they auditioned many people with various skin tones, and they concluded that Pascal gave the best performance of the lot.

    And I think it’s a bit ridiculous for some fans to create a color-test for this character of a fictional ethnicity. For instance, you keep using the word “Moorish” and saying you’re disappointed that they didn’t cast someone “Moorish.” But obviously the word “Moorish” never appears in the books and is solely certain fans’ interpretation of what Dornish must look like. In the books Oberyn has “olive” skin, not “dark” skin. Pascal in the picture above looks to me like a “light olive” rather than a “medium olive” or “dark olive.” He certainly doesn’t look British or Irish, which is the main point in setting the Dornish apart. Should they have gone for a darker shade of olive from an actor whose performance they didn’t like as much?

    I think the people who use these melanin litmus tests should just take a deep breath and realize that GOT is not intended to be a ground-breaking show for “POC” on television and never will be. Regardless of Oberyn’s casting, it remains a show about a medieval kingdom modeled on historical Britain and cast with almost entirely British and Irish actors. And as you can tell from Cogman’s reactions, the hissy-fits thrown by some on this topic are just making people who care about this appear ridiculous to those people involved in the production and are actually probably making their goals for “POC” representation LESS likely to be achieved.

  594. Jentario
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp: Can’t say much about the tail end of the series, but I still sincerely hope they condense Books 4 & 5 into roughly a reason. GRRM seems awful sure those books will but him plenty of time to stay ahead of the show. I say they won’t, so long as D&D and Co. strive to deliver the best show possible.

    I know, I’m butthurt over ADWD overall. It’s ridiculous. :P

    I liked ADWD. The only issue I had with it was that it ended in a series of cliffhangers just before everything got interesting and killed the overall arc of the book which was mostly setting up to the events that were pushed forward from it. It’s as if GRRM took a pair of scissors and cut the book’s episodes 9 &10 (to compare with the show) but it was still a great book overall and miles ahead of AFFC in my opinion.

    OT: They will not make 1 season out of ADWD & AFFC, they’ll probably make it 1.5 with the second half occupying what is bound to be the very eventful first quarter of TWOW. It is impossible to rush through this material, even if season 5 will suffer. Unless they cut a very significant number of storylines, it can’t be done and doing that would make the season miss the books’ positives along with their negatives. 1.5 seasons is optimal because it allows the plot to breathe and not be a complete mess without deviating significantly.

  595. darquemode
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:50 pm | Permalink
  596. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    Sansa’s Lemoncakes,

    Personally, I love this thread. Damn, ASoI&F fans are so passionate and polarized about how their favorite characters and plotlines are conveyed onscreen! Regarding the casting and scripting choices, Lincoln said it best:

    “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.

    No need to apologize to the Cogman. He probably understands this.

  597. arden
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    600 posts, I love it and the casting

  598. Ned
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Why is this a shock to fans? Dorne actors were going to be played by Latino and Spanish actors. GRRM views Dorne as Spain. I thought this was pretty clear. Westeros = Medieval Europe. Its Dorne, part of Westeros. Not Sothoros. They always cast well, relax.

  599. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    Ned,

    That’s not quite true. He has said that Dorne is a mix of Wales, Palestine, and the Moorish invasion of Spain. Modern Spain is not the same as the Moorish-settled-Spain in history. For starters, the Moors were a lot darker. So no, he didn’t base it on just plain “Spain,”and he’s never mentioned Latinos. That’s why the ethnicity and look of Dorne has been such a hot topic for such a long time among fans.

  600. Adam Whitehead
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    ygritte is far sooner

    Maybe not:

    It seems a bit redundant to have the raid on Castle Black. I think it’s more likely that Ygritte will live longer, will be our wildling POV during the main attack on the Wall, and will die there rather than in the earlier raid.

    The fact that they mentioned that there relationship with him is great, and said they had disagreements in every season they wrote tells me this isn’t something too major. Maybe they cut a character like, I don’t know, Ellaria Sand (that would totally fit the context, if you look at it again).

    Agreed – although we know Ellaria Sand is in as they’re casting her – but there does seem to be a fundamental disconnect between what D&D are saying – eight seasons, no D&E movies to tide things over, no putting the show on hold for two years, fewer characters than in the books, things reaching their greatest extent in Season 3/4 and contracting – and the things GRRM is saying: putting things on hold for two years if necessary, adapting ‘everything’ from AFFC/ADWD over two or three seasons, the series reaching its greatest extent in ADWD before contracting, the show lasting for maybe nine or ten seasons to fit everything in.

    Both of those statements cannot be true, and as D&D are the showrunners, clearly their vision for the show is what’s going to happen, and as GRRM has said, he “wouldn’t like it,” if they overtook him and finished first, which now appears probable.

  601. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    Jentario: I liked ADWD. The only issue I had with it was that it ended in a series of cliffhangers just before everything got interesting and killed the overall arc of the book which was mostly setting up to the events that were pushed forward from it. It’s as if GRRM took a pair of scissors and cut the book’s episodes 9 &10 (to compare with the show) but it was still a great book overall and miles ahead of AFFC in my opinion.

    OT: They will not make 1 season out of ADWD & AFFC, they’ll probably make it 1.5 with the second half occupying what is bound to be the very eventful first quarter of TWOW. It is impossible to rush through this material, even if season 5 will suffer. Unless they cut a very significant number of storylines, it can’t be done and doing that would make the season miss the books’ positives along with their negatives. 1.5 seasons is optimal because it allows the plot to breathe and not be a complete mess without deviating significantly.

    I agree with this

  602. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    I am hoping that GRRM pulls out all the stops for TWoW and ADoS, starting with the 2-3 battles upfront in TWoW. I hope he fills the books with formidable sequences and events that will provide budget-busting mayhem for GoT and test the “unfilmable” paradigm that he originally articulated, which would force the show to follow precariously or go in a different direction.

    Every day that I don’t see a new “Not a Blog” entry by GRRM, I cheer….hopefully that means he channeled another 10 pages from mind to paper. Challenge them George and dream on!

    Books before film!

  603. db
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    So fucking disappointed.. how could they do this… fucking shameful

  604. Turncloak
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    So I’ve extrapolated GRRM’s writing. From Jan 2012 to October of 2012 he wrote 400 pages of manuscript writing (with 200 considered completely finished). If it takes 1500 completed manuscript pages to complete a book than we can expect D&D to have about 840 pages of finished source material or about 56% of the completed book by the time they start filming season 6 in July of 2015. If the goal is to finish the series in 7 seasons then D&D will have to use material from the 1500 unfinished manuscript pages to shoot the rest of season 6. For season 7 the show will completely usurp the book, as GRRM will only just begin to start writing A Dream of Spring

  605. Lord_Grimjaur
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    You guys do know that medieval Spain, either from reconquista and colonial periods, is very similar to the rest of the Europe in it’s cultural, military, political, economic etc. sense?
    If we draw paralel lines to our own history, ASOIAF is set in the late medieval/rennasaince periods, and by that time Spain was totally in Christian control. Castles, churces, culture, dogmas, people etc. were nothing like the description of Dorne.
    If we assume that it’s based on earlier period Spain, deep in reconquista, still doesn’t add up, since then Dorne would then have to be seen as very backwards, insignificant area, out of everyone’s sight. And we know that’s as far from the thruth.
    If anything, Dorne is most similar to Abbasid/Mameluke/Persian late medieval periods of Middle East. Although there are still different parts of Dorne that are more similar to Southern European medieval periods, eg. Red Mountains, southwestern shores around Starfall and northern areas bordering Stormlands, where there is a much stronger influence from the rest of Westeros than from Dorne itself.
    With all that said (written?), this looks like miscast or a budgetary-wise casting, and it seems Red Viper’s role would be played down and shown as just another support role.
    Non existence of flashbacks to Robert’s Rebellion and seldom mentioning Gregor Clegane and Lannisters’ rampage in it supports that notion.

  606. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    Pessimist! I curse you, monster! Lies…all lies!

  607. jasonw
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    this has been the first time a comment section has made me not want to come back to this site… I really am amazed at some of the comments here.

  608. Lex
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    db:
    So fucking disappointed.. how could they do this… fucking shameful

    Your comment is fucking shameful.

  609. Jentario
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    So I’ve extrapolated GRRM’s writing. From Jan 2012 to October of 2012 he wrote 400 pages of manuscript writing (with 200 considered completely finished). If it takes 1500 completed manuscript pages to complete a book than we can expect D&D to have about 840 pages of finished source material or about 56% of the completed book by the time they start filming season 6 in July of 2015. If the goal is to finish the series in 7 seasons then D&D will have to use material from the 1500 unfinished manuscript pages to shoot the rest of season 6. For season 7 the show will completely usurp the book, as GRRM will only just begin to start writing A Dream of Spring

    I doubt that GRRM has a set pace. If he really wanted to, he would sit down and write and he can easily finish TWOW by this time next year if he sets his priorities straight. But so far he hasn’t set his priorities straight. Hopefully the fact that he has pretty much gone off grid now means he’s writing a lot.

  610. Cary Storm
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    Don’t extrapolate based on current figures. Martin is under vastly different pressures to work on it than in the past. I am pretty confident some time before next summer he’ll be on an extended retreat with helpers and resources with the sole purpose of pumping pages out. My prediction is publication date of March 2015 in advance of Season 5; especially given that HBO numbers will probably start leveling off a bit during Season 4. The book and series will generate much hype for one another.

    Of course, I’ve been wrong before. I was sure that Talisa was a Lannister spy.

  611. Cary Storm
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    jasonw:
    this has been the first time a comment section has made me not want to come back to this site… I really am amazed at some of the comments here.

    I’ve seen much worse threads on here than this, and we always return to more collegial discussion. Don’t give up so readily.

  612. john
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    I’m just happy Nina Gold is European, so she’s not stuck in the racist American mindset of stereotyping people based on their race and ethnicity.

    WiC.net also bears responsibility for this shit storm since they hosted that incredibly offensive round table discussion a few weeks ago where they basically called the GoT producers “racists” .

  613. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    Lord_Grimjaur:
    You guys do know that medieval Spain, either from reconquista and colonial periods, is very similar to the rest of the Europe in it’s cultural, military, political, economic etc. sense?
    If we draw paralel lines to our own history, ASOIAF is set in the late medieval/rennasaince periods, and by that time Spain was totally in Christian control. Castles, churces, culture, dogmas, people etc. were nothing like the description of Dorne.
    If we assume that it’s based on earlier period Spain, deep in reconquista, still doesn’t add up, since then Dorne would then have to be seen as very backwards, insignificant area, out of everyone’s sight. And we know that’s as far from the thruth.
    If anything, Dorne is most similar to Abbasid/Mameluke/Persian late medieval periods of Middle East. Although there are still different parts of Dorne that are more similar to Southern European medieval periods, eg. Red Mountains, southwestern shores around Starfall and northern areas bordering Stormlands, where there is a much stronger influence from the rest of Westeros than from Dorne itself.
    With all that said (written?), this looks like miscast or a budgetary-wise casting, and it seems Red Viper’s role would be played down and shown as just another support role.
    Non existence of flashbacks to Robert’s Rebellion and seldom mentioning Gregor Clegane and Lannisters’ rampage in it supports that notion.

    It’s based loosely on moorish spain because the Rhoyne invaded the dornish andals the same way that the moors invaded the iberian peninsula, the water gardens=Alhambra, the sand dunes resemble northern africa, were the berebers came form etc…is that so hard to understand?? don’t read more into it, Martin surely didn’t -.-

  614. Turncloak
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard:
    Turncloak,

    Pessimist! I curse you, monster! Lies…all lies!

    Mother of Dragons slayer of lies! I just don’t see GRRM outpacing the show. At best I can see the Winds of Winter being released in March of 2016, 1 month prior to the airing of season 6. Which isn’t unheard of, that’s a 5 year gap from the release of his last book. ADWD was a 6 year gap from the release of AFFC if you recall

  615. Turncloak
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    john,

    The Importance of Dorne Part 2 roundtable was very disturbing. Especially the comments from Rachel. But that’s in the past, so I moved on

  616. Lex
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    john:

    WiC.net also bears responsibility for this shit storm since they hosted that incredibly offensive round table discussion a few weeks ago where they basically called the GoT producers “racists” .

    This is why I’m not at all surprised by the thread. It was clear from that roundtable that the Dorne casting was going to be a complete shit storm, no matter what.

    What I don’t understand is this: weren’t tons of people hoping for James Purefoy?? He is completely white. What would the reaction have been then?

  617. quadurp
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    Lia,

    Last time i checked olives were black. http://i.imgur.com/AyagN38.jpg I know there are green olives also but I doubt that the Dornish are related to the Hulk.

  618. Sunny
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    I’m really shocked that people are so shocked over the comments section. The Dornish have always been the most speculated about in terms of appearance since so much of who they look like is up for debate. Add to the fact that Oberyn is one of the most memorable characters in ASOIAF, whoever was cast to play him was going to drum up alot of discussion. The fact that his appearance does not match many people’s visualization of what the viper looks like will only add to the furor. Also, people can’t exactly talk about his acting since he is relatively unknown actor who we’ve never seen before, the only thing we can judge him by at this early stage is his appearance.

  619. Lex
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    quadurp:

    Last time i checked olives were black. http://i.imgur.com/AyagN38.jpg I know there are green olives also but I doubt that the Dornish are related to the Hulk.

    Wrong. Olive skin does NOT mean black. It means tanned, or “earthy” tone, with green/gold undertones. Greeks and Italians are often said to have olive skin.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_skin

  620. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    john: WiC.net also bears responsibility for this shit storm since they hosted that incredibly offensive round table discussion a few weeks ago where they basically called the GoT producers “racists” .

    Controversy over appropriate race and castings has existed for pretty much always. It doesn’t fail to exist or disappear just because you want it to or have your head stuck in the sand. People have been debating the ethnicity or race of the Martells for years. It was much better to address it in a mature fashion than pretend it didn’t exist. This storm is no surprise. People will survive, they always do.

  621. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    The 11 year pit between ASoS and AFoC/ADwD was pure torture….”Never more! Never more!”

    Can you imagine the various incentives that HBO or Bantam might be offering GRRM to stay ahead of the TV show? Perhaps they will rent Dragonstone for him, or offer fish massages while he writes, or maybe they’ll procure that infamous painting “Mary Untier of Knots” by Schmidtner (1700) for him to reflect upon as he pounds those keys!

  622. Turncloak
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    If GRRM really wants to hold on to his baby, a comprise that can be reached is have The Cogman and D&D write the first 4 episodes of season 7, and then have GRRM write the final 6, so in the end it’s GRRM thats telling us the ending, this time in a script rather than from a book

  623. JRR Tzolkin
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    Pau Soriano: That’s the definition in spanish!!! Latino in english is not the same than Latino inspanish!! Latino in english =Latinoamericano in spanish, or Latin-american in english. Americans shorten Latin-american to Latino.

    When an american says “this guy is Latino” he doesn’t mean “this guy is romanian” or “this guy is french”. He means “this guy is latin-american”

    You’re welcomed ;)

    Oh yes, I know this all too well, believe me. Doesn’t make it right, though.

    Take the French “restaurant” or “garage”, for instance. If I saw someone calling a pub a “restaurant” or an attic a “garage”, I would try to help them see that they are wrong. The same goes for Latino. Since the word stems from Spanish, the correct meaning of the word is the Spanish one. Simple as that.

    This misinterpretation of the word Latino, I believe, is precisely the reason why so many folk here are complaining that Mr. Pedro Pascal is “too white” for the role of Oberyn Martell. I assume they wouldn’t know that, today, countries like Argentina and Chile are “whiter” in proportion than the U.S. or even some European countries, but that’s a fact. And those two nations are Latin American countries, nonetheless.

    So, if GRRM did describe the Martells in a way that they may be perceived as Latinos by so many readers, then I’m sure he did it based in the correct, general meaning of the term Latino and not based on the way it is understood by a few folk, regardless of country and cultural perception.

    You’re also most welcome.

  624. Cary Storm
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury: Controversy over appropriate race and castings has existed for pretty much always. It doesn’t fail to exist or disappear just because you want it to or have your head stuck in the sand. People have been debating the ethnicity or race of the Martells for years. It was much better to address it in a mature fashion than pretend it didn’t exist. This storm is no surprise. People will survive, they always do.

    And, people opposed to the casting on some ground or another will either be shocked and blown away by Pascal’s performance, a good possibility given D&D’s own assessment of his abilities, or they’ll be self-justified by his mediocre acting and rag on about it. Either way, the show will go on.

  625. Turncloak
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    Or HBO can buy the Patriots and have them miss a season since GRRM is a huge fan ;]

  626. MRR
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    quadurp:
    Lia,

    Last time i checked olives were black. http://i.imgur.com/AyagN38.jpg I know there are green olives also but I doubt that the Dornish are related to the Hulk.

    Last time I checked, and I actually eat olives, olives come in a variety of colors. Also, last time I checked, the word “olive” refers to a color directly, much in the same way that “orange” is both a fruit and a color, and the last time I checked it was widely-known that “olive-skinned” refers to something closer to that color, and a quick Google image search backs me up.

    Why am I even participating in this thread? -_-

    I’m sure the casting will be fine. Nina Gold and the rest have done a superlative job so far; maybe not perfect in everyone’s eyes, but certainly well above what might have been expected. I have no complaints.

  627. db
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    B Cogman,

    He said “wow” like he’s surprised some of us were expecting a POC to be cast… lmfao i can’t with these writers like how can you be so displaced from reality, you’re basically floating in the abyss with a white oberyn meanwhile back on planet earth oberyn is so obviously a brown character. (also cackling forever at those who try to make him sound whiter than he’s described.. just stfu already, grrm said himself janina gavankar looks dornish so gtfo)

  628. db
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    Also let’s not try to describe people’s skin tones with food.. just because GRRM did it, doesn’t make it acceptable.

  629. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    I think db is being facetious. At least I hope so. If not, then he is taking this shit way too seriously.

  630. WompWomp
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    Jentario,

    That’s the core of my beef with ADWD, aside from the many, many storylines, old and new, with no satisfying progress. It just doesn’t have the same major story beats the other books had despite its tremendous page count. Not that the show revolves around my expectations (the creators owe me nothing), but I dread seeing a season end in the middle of the AFFC/ADWD timeline. :|

  631. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    This thread just jumped a whole load of sharks.

    Seriously though, it’s sort of off-putting that folk can or won’t discuss any of this in a civil manner, and some of the racial and ethnic statements that are being banded about are sort of disturbing. You have to realise it’s daft when other South Americans and I-won’t-say-that-silly-acronym are shrugging their shoulders at the reactions of their fellow fans. It’s like a hive of Rachels in here.

    Gonna focus on the actor and his chops. Nothing else. Book readers expect the showrunners to reach into their heads and procure whatever they imagined whilst reading, nuances and all. Some people only want the show to revolve around their own wants, and not the needs of the production or other fans.

  632. Turncloak
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    What do you think episode 9 of season 5 will be? I’m guessing Jon Snow’s Death, and episode 10 will be Dany riding her Dragon for the first time I see them doing books 4 and 5 in one season and trimming the fat with a Bolton flaying knife

  633. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    Why is everyone apologizing to Brian ? if anyone deserved an apology it’s perhaps Nina Gold for second guessing her ability to cast characters.

    Brian chooses to visit a site that’s dedicated to GOT and ASOIF, he should know there’s going to passionate reactions to decisions regarding the show around here.

  634. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    Do I need to remind people of the name-calling and personal attacks rules again already?

  635. Jess
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    You know what is off-putting all the negativity I am seeing in this thread towards Rachel on here. ” A hive of Rachels”, shame on those fans who feel the need to bash another fan because you don’t agree with their opinion.

  636. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    I’m sure people are including everyone involved with the show in their apologies for how crazy this fandom can get. Since Bryan is the only one that we know of who sometimes posts in these threads, the messages are directed towards him.

  637. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    Jess,

    Who is Rachel?

  638. Andrew
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    Jess,

    Two mentions of Rachel in 600+ comments really constitutes a disturbing amount of hate directed at her by the fandom? Bit dramatic, don’t you think?

  639. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I like the fact Cogman visits here and takes time to reply to the fans and I hope he continues to do that.

  640. Al Swearengen
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    Has there been any word yet about the Game of Thrones comic con panel ?

  641. NewJeffCT
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen:
    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I like the fact Cogman visits here and takes time to reply to the fans and I hope he continues to do that.

    I think he may have been scared off by this 640+ post thread so far.

  642. Gatorfisch
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    Bryan Cogman:
    “clearly a white-passing Latino”.

    I’ll say it again, folks. Wow.

    Agreed. Wow. How ignorant.

  643. jc
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Oh, I’m so disappointed. I really don’t think he looks right for the part at all

  644. NewJeffCT
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Does anybody know how tall the guy is? As I said above, I was hoping for Antonio Banderas in a cameo role, but I trust in Nina Gold and D&D, so I think he’ll be fine. I’m hoping they do his into to Tyrion similar to the book (his initial talk with Tyrion, I mean)

    I did see one picture of him looking barely taller than a 5’6″ actress. However, the actress could have had on heels/platforms as well.

  645. Turncloak
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    She is one of the panelists in the Importance of Dorne part 2 article. She had some controversial opinions

  646. Gatorfisch
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    db:
    B Cogman,

    He said “wow” like he’s surprised some of us were expecting a POC to be cast… lmfao i can’t with these writers like how can you be so displaced from reality, you’re basically floating in the abyss with a white oberyn meanwhile back on planet earth oberyn is so obviously a brown character. (also cackling forever at those who try to make him sound whiter than he’s described.. just stfu already, grrm said himself janina gavankar looks dornish so gtfo)

    A Person of Color was cast. The guy is obviously Hispanic. Not only black people are POCs…and newsflash…even within the “black” spectrum, there are all sorts of skin tones…I am amazed and ashamed of all the ignorance I am reading on this site.

  647. NewJeffCT
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    Not sure if anybody has posted it, but I loved this comic strip of the Red Viper and his last scene in A Storm of Swords.

    HUGE MEGA SPOILERS AT THE LINK IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE BOOK!!

    http://mccomseycomix.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/the-red-viper-vs-the-mountain-that-rides-a-12-page-comic/

  648. Katja
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Well he certainly looks good to me. Possibly a bit young to have three adult daughters, but didn”t he start at 14 or so? If the youngest of the four is around 20 he could easily be a young looking 40, which this guy looks like he might be.

    I haven’t seen any of his acting or videos, but I generally trust in Nina Gold. She knows her stuff, and everyone knows how important it is to get this character right.

  649. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    NewJeffCT,

    I think the best guess is he is about 5’9. Ian Whyte is 7’0 so the difference in size is there.

  650. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    Jess:
    You know what is off-putting all the negativity I am seeing in this thread towards Rachel on here. ” A hive of Rachels”, shame on those fans who feel the need to bash another fan because you don’t agree with their opinion.

    Andrew:
    Jess,

    Two mentions of Rachel in 600+ comments really constitutes a disturbing amount of hate directed at her by the fandom? Bit dramatic, don’t you think?

    ^ Thank you.

    Rachel’s reasoning in the Dorne article, and her insinuations that the showrunners are either racists or ignorant racists, is the barometer by which most of the likewise histrionics in here are being judged. Nobody’s bashed her as a person, they find her opinion (which she’s allowed to have) ridiculous.

    It’s the least worrying thing in this entire thread, and I think your distress is misplaced… unless you’re the lady herself, in which case: you will be judged on your opinion. That’s how it flows. I’m sure we’d probably have a laugh about this in real-life.

    A decent conversation is out of the question for this thread. I’m hoping for some non-booker reader articles; those guys aren’t bogged down by half of the silliness in the other threads.

  651. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    Rachel agreed with everyone else on the panel, and I agreed with her as well. For some reason, the people who did not want a non-white Oberyn in comments chose Rachel to hate on the most. Maybe because she’s a white woman and therefore thought to be a safer target? Not sure. But her “controversial opinions” were the same as everyone’s on the panel. Including mine in week one, when I was on the panel.

    Oh, and Pascal is 5’11″ according to his official resume for whomever is asking.

    Gatorfisch,

    You can be white and Latino. It’s a complicated issue. “Hispanic” just means he speaks Spanish, being Chilean. (Although he’s actually American. His family is from Chile.)

    I have no idea what Pedro Pascal self-identifies as, ethnically/racially, for the record.

  652. Gatorfisch
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    quadurp:
    What the hell HBO or whoever decided this? I thought the Martells were dark-skinned like some African-Americans. Well, I shouldn’t be surprised of this white washing but I just had my hopes up.

    You and I must have read different books, then. I got the Hispanic/Mediterranean/Middle Eastern vibe….The Summer Islanders are the most African-like.

  653. Gatorfisch
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    Having grown up in Florida, I am well aware of how diverse the Latino community can be. Looking at him, he has all the features of someone with, at least some “native” Chilean heritage. In earlier posts, I even pointed out that there is immense diversity within specific ethnicities.

  654. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    For some reason, the people who did not want a non-white Oberyn in comments chose Rachel to hate on the most.

    No, the people who disagreed with Rachel, or the panel, are not to be conflated with folk who wanted a white-only Oberyn (do these people exist? Are there fans out there who say Oberyn shouldn’t have dark skin?) Most of them wanted the focus to be on an actor with chops. That doesn’t mean they were against the idea of a dark skinned Oberyn. Skin colour is a secondary issue for them, if an issue at all. Personally, I don’t see the colour of a person’s skin, I see their acting ability. And I’m not the sort of poster who will use their own skin colour, or the skin colour of other posters, to make a point. That sounds unhealthy and disingenuous either way.

    She’s been singled out (what, twice?) for a comment like: “I found that scene with Dany to be so heavy handed and unaware of the imagery that I almost couldn’t believe it. Is it actually possible that everyone involved in making that scene happen did so without a thought to how imperialistic and racist it was?”

    Now, I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt for adding: “Maybe this is a critique of Dany’s own storyline that will be more fully revealed in future seasons as we all know.” But I still think she’;s massively projecting.

    Obviously we’re going to butt heads further on the issue, and that’s not what I come here for at all. So, adieu, in regards to that subject.

  655. Turncloak
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    If you all had the same opinion maybe the panel was not diverse enough ;)

  656. Lex
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    I do think the round table bears some responsibility for this thread. Even if the debate surrounding Dornish ethnicity already existed on the internet, the round table made it a far more prominent issue right here on this site. The casting announcement, following so shortly on the round table’s heels, is definitely being affected by that.

    Also, I think people took issue with Rachel’s tone more than anything else. The Thoros comment, in particular, made me cringe a bit. And it had nothing to do with my opinions on Dornish race. I’m not trying to attack her, just stating an opinion.

    Aaaaaanyways, I VOTE FOR PEDRO.

  657. Turncloak
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    Vote for Pedro! And I agree about her tone and specific comments. Whatever, that’s old news now

  658. Jentario
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    Gatorfisch: You and I must have read different books, then.I got the Hispanic/Mediterranean/Middle Eastern vibe….The Summer Islanders are the most African-like.

    This. Only specific Sand Snakes are supposed to be black. The rest of the Martells are “olive skinned” (search for it in Googld images if you aren’t sure what it means) which can be accurately portrayed through Pascal.

    People are ripping on Pascal even though he has the potential to fit the book’s description. I’m willing to bet that in-costume and make up, he will look “olive” enough.

  659. sunaeryn
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    B Cogman:
    Wow.

    Can only speak for myself, but I’ll see your shock and dismay and raise you my keen disappointment at this casting choice.

    I take this depigmentation of Oberyn (Martells?) add to it the final Mhysa scene of S3 and I get a severe let down as a result. Wow indeed.

  660. Lex
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    sunaeryn: I get a sever let down as a result. Wow indeed.

    Ouch! Was your letdown completely severed? Or just partially?

  661. voiceareason
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    I take this depigmentation of Oberyn (Martells?) add to it the final Mhysa scene of S3 and I get a sever let down as a result. Wow indeed.

    So depigmentation is a thing now?

  662. sunaeryn
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    Lex: Ouch! Was your letdown completely severed? Or just partially?

    Corrected. Thanks for the pointer.

  663. Turncloak
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    Lex: Ouch! Was your letdown completely severed? Or just partially?

    They say the Lord of Light can bring you back despite severed limbs, organs and/or letdowns

  664. Jess
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    Andrew:
    Jess,

    Two mentions of Rachel in 600+ comments really constitutes a disturbing amount of hate directed at her by the fandom? Bit dramatic, don’t you think?

    Yep, two comments too many. :)

  665. Cary Storm
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Jess,
    Who is Rachel?

    I’m wondering if I’m the only one who thought “Big Brother” when I saw “Hive of Rachels”

  666. JRR Tzolkin
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:

    You can be white and Latino. It’s a complicated issue. “Hispanic” just means he speaks Spanish, being Chilean. (Although he’s actually American. His family is from Chile.)

    I have no idea what Pedro Pascal self-identifies as, ethnically/racially, for the record.

    That’s because of the way you U.S. folk have gotten your nationalities all mixed up with your ethnicities. See, based on your current terms and definitions in this sense, someone like me would be…hmm…let me see…

    Hispanic-Italian-Austrian-Ukranian-Polish-Mexican…or something along those lines, which sounds quite complicated, yes lol…

    Lucky for white Latinos outside the U.S. that this is not an issue for us at all. We never identify ourselves based on race/ethnicity, we just do it based on nationality. If you’re from México, you’re Mexican and if you’re from Chile, you’re Chilean, the color of your skin not withstanding. Don’t know if this is why Mr. Pascal seems to identify himself as Chilean or no, but it definitely is much simpler this way.

  667. NoOne
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    Haha, manda fuego R’hllor!!

  668. Cary Storm
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    JRR Tzolkin: If you’re from México, you’re Mexican

    Unless you’re indigena, then you generally identify in whatever indigenous cultural background you fall in.

  669. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    Gatorfisch: A Person of Color was cast.The guy is obviously Hispanic.Not only black people are POCs…and newsflash…even within the “black” spectrum, there are all sorts of skin tones…I am amazed and ashamed of all the ignorance I am reading on this site.

    No, Hispanic doesn’t mean POC, there are white hispanics, black hispanics, mixed hispanics, even asian hispanics…you should be ashamed of your ignorance before bashing others ;)

    JRR Tzolkin: Oh yes, I know this all too well, believe me. Doesn’t make it right, though.

    Take the French “restaurant” or “garage”, for instance. If I saw someone calling a pub a “restaurant” or an attic a “garage”, I would try to help them see that they are wrong. The same goes for Latino. Since the word stems from Spanish, the correct meaning of the word is the Spanish one. Simple as that.

    This misinterpretation of the word Latino, I believe, is precisely the reason why so many folk here are complaining that Mr. Pedro Pascal is “too white” for the role of Oberyn Martell. I assume they wouldn’t know that, today, countries like Argentina and Chile are “whiter” in proportion than the U.S. or even some European countries, but that’s a fact. And those two nations are Latin American countries, nonetheless.

    So, if GRRM did describe the Martells in a way that they may be perceived as Latinos by so many readers, then I’m sure he did it based in the correct, general meaning of the term Latino and not based on the way it is understood by a few folk, regardless of country and cultural perception.

    You’re also most welcome.

    Not only you’re totally wrong but you’re missing the point entirely ;)

    And by the way, the meaning of a word is the meaning the language we are speaking gives that word, not the meaning that word had in the language it originated from…I think that was pretty self-explanatory ;)

  670. WildSeed
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm: Edward James Olmos would make a fantastic Doran.Isn’t Areo Hotah quite white?

    Do you mean winter white ? creamy white ? satiny or eggshell ?

  671. Omar Brown
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    sunaeryn: Can only speak for myself, but I’ll see your shock and dismay and raise you my keen disappointment at this casting choice.

    I take this depigmentation of Oberyn (Martells?) add to it the final Mhysa scene of S3 and I get a severe let down as a result. Wow indeed.

    How about you wait for the season to start and lets see the guy act and THEN bitch and whine? You sound like those people that cried rivers because Syrio wasn’t bald.

    This fandom I swear.

  672. A wildling Bastard
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    what’s with these unnecessary comments !! it feels like chaos .. just calm the Hodor down and be Grateful ..he looks perfect for the rule :D .. can’t wait to see him in Action .. Har! ..

  673. Atreyu
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    #NOONECAAAAAAAAARES

  674. Lex
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    Omar Brown: How about you wait for the season to start and lets see the guy act and THEN bitch and whine? You sound like those people that cried rivers because Syrio wasn’t bald.

    This fandom I swear.

    Exactly. “Keen disappointment” and “severe let down” based on nothing but the fact that the guy’s skin is somewhat-darker-than-white-but-not-quite-dark-enough? And then they wonder why others ridicule their opinion…

  675. WildSeed
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    Chickenduck,

    Now you have me imagining the Red Viper with Rick Grimes’ accent! Khaaarl git back in the house.

    LMAO. You ain’t sayin that rite, you be quotin’ Mis Deen !

  676. YvyB
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    I’m happy he has a Widow’s peak …

  677. Dragon Tender
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    Bran The Builder: http://www.deadline.com/2013/06/emmy-q-a-with-game-of-thrones-david-benioff-and-d-b-weiss/

    Read his blog. He’s already written on the issue.

    Short version — Martin’s done TV before, and if you’re going to do shots with lots of extras, you need to be able to go some place where you can cast a lot of extras. So it was always likely that the ethnicity of the people of Dorne was going to map to some country in Europe that was, well, “off-white”.

    It would be fun to have South or East Asians, or Sub-Saharan Africans, but the locations in question are just too far for it to be practical.

    So George is down with this.

  678. Cary Storm
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed: Do you mean winter white ? creamy white ? satiny or eggshell ?

    I was thinking more of a polar moonrise.

  679. KG
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    Jentario,

    I never had the impression that ANY of them were black.

  680. Lex
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed: Do you mean winter white ? creamy white ? satiny or eggshell ?

    Don’t forget milky white, icy white, and off white. For example, I know a milky-white-passing-eggshell-white person. He has to deal with preconceived notions of whiteness every day, poor guy. How dare people lump all whites in one category. Shadism! Colorism!!!

    *jk

  681. Atreyu
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed: Do you mean winter white ? creamy white ? satiny or eggshell ?

    Flat, glossy or semi-gloss?

  682. LordStarkington
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    Well, if this comment thread has taught me one thing it’s that my sister (biracial, like I am) is privileged compared to me because she “passes as white” when I cannot. I’ll be sure to let her know that any comments made about her race or ethnicity therefore count for less, apparently.

  683. Cary Storm
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

    LordStarkington:
    Well, if this comment thread has taught me one thing it’s that my sister (biracial, like I am) is privileged compared to me because she “passes as white” when I cannot. I’ll be sure to let her know that any comments made about her race or ethnicity therefore count for less, apparently.

    Surely you’ve heard of “pass-privilege”? It’s the latest thing in identity nullification.

  684. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    So much off-color humor in here!

  685. Dragon Tender
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    eetrebor:
    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I just don’t think having a Spanish accent would make sense, the Dornish speak Common (natively) just like the rest ofWesteros. In GoT/ASOIAF, Common = British English….therefore a(regional?) British accent makes the most sense. Just like they’ve done with The North.

    There isa mention in the books of a “Dornish Drawl” FWIW…

    I don’t know…

    How about:

    My name iz Oberyn Martell… You keeld my seester… PREPARE TO DIE!!!

    Of course, Mandy Patinkin is far too white for the role :-)

  686. Eljuma
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    sunaeryn,

    *What* “depigmentation”? Have you checked all the fanart out there depicting Oberyn? He’s even paler in those drawings than the actor hired! Hell, before the casting came out half the people were hoping out for ODED FEHR. A German-Dutch Jewish white guy as pale as he can be, but hey, he has a beard and played an Arab in a movie 10 years ago, so that makes him one of those fabled “talented POC” out there.

    Honestly, the big surprise is not that the actor chosen is contested. This SMALL character is so damn overblown in the fandom, and the expectations were so absurdly high (Hollywood A-list actors? for real?) that people were bound to be disapointed regardless of what they did. What is astonishing and completely overblown is the unashamed, bold faced racism of the PC crowd. People who *do* know that in the source material the Martells are *not* described as Black African, yet expected the production crew to cast Afro-British and Afro-Caribbean actors as them purely to fulfil an undefined race quota, claiming that the show somehow owes them three Black African characters because they dared to cut out three cardboard cutouts in the form of Yayaya, Mamayayaya and Yayayalarwhatever who do nothing in the books but stand in the background, worship sex and suffer the consequences of white people’s actions. So called fans are throwing shit purely because the actor chosen for this part is neither White British nor Black British and have not seen his audition video *for this show* or him acting anywhere else for that matter, have the gall of calling the show racist for not “blackwashing” him and casting an Idriss Elba type to play him instead.

    They even have the shamelessness of saying that going against the source material in this case is a necessary window to “add diversity” to the cast, when Afro-British actors are already part of the show in the roles of Missandei and Grey Worm, as well as XXD and Salladhor Saan (people who were nearly albino in the books, but nobody gave a shit that they got “pigmented” in the adaptation), yet react viciously against the casting of actors from new nationalities and ethnicities that aren’t yet part of the show, like South Americans. Just to see how subjective race is and how it varies from person to person, when the bashers saw this guy’s photo they raged on because he looks “white”. When I (a Spaniard), saw the first photo, before WiC changed it to one with darker skin in a failed effort to deflate the craziness, my first though was “uh, that guy looks part Native American”.

    Finally, the Dany scene in the finale. Corny? Yes. A let down compared tot he two previous final scenes? You bet. Racist? Uh, what would be *more* racist than shooting in Morocco but sending out casting notices for non-Moroccans because the sight of Moroccans only in that scene would somehow upset the feelings of someone in other country? And now the show has to “make up for that” by casting the Martells as Black African? How does that even make sense?

  687. A wildling Bastard
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    Dragon Tender: I don’t know…

    How about:

    My name iz Oberyn Martell…You keeld my seester… PREPARE TO DIE!!!

    XD

  688. Lex
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

    The scary thing is, Linda is kind of making sense on tumblr. Is this the twilight zone?

    Okay, Tumblr is damned funny today. Poor Pedro Pascal is apparently the wrong sort of “PoC”. The craziest comment I’ve seen so far might be that maybe he’d be considered “white” in Chile even if he’s not considered “white” elsewhere, so that somehow makes it wrong? I can’t even begin to make sense of that.

    Well, all of this does a wonderful job of showing just how messed up the “PoC” term actually is. It turns the whole question of race and inequality into a bureaucratic micromanagement of who has “white privilege” or not.

  689. Chriss
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    HalfWarg:
    Not trying to be cynical, but I strongly dislike this casting move. Besides the fact that casting a light-skinned Hispanic practically guts the visual distinction of the Dornish before they even get started, this guy’s work history is unimpressiveto say the least.

    He’s had minor and medium sized roles in a plethora of terrible shows on a handful of pathetic networks–and now he’s entrusted with one of the most charismatic roles in one of the most popular book series ever? Seriously? Did they walk into a USA Network casting office and grab the first guy they saw?

    Good. It’s not fame or popularity that makes a great actor. Hugh Laurie, Bryan Cranston, etc, etc. Everyone’s a nobody until they’re a somebody.

  690. Lex
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    Eljuma,

    Well said! Thank you for being a voice of sanity, in a sea of moronic hysteria.

  691. WildSeed
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    So late to the party, which is turning out to be another fracas……………….
    However several here are on board with the role given to this actor. I’m
    not at all familiar with his work, in film or television, so the weblinks didn’t
    help much. Not too surprising since I’m not really a film media expert.

    Siddig, Naveen, Oded, Cosimo, were all great contenders, however unlikely
    their interest or agents preferred either of them for this role.

    This actor will probably do his best with the script and special effects
    surrounding his attire and appearance. Certainly worth the respect
    to await his debut next season.

    I’m eager to learn what the producers have in store for onscreen Oberyn Martell.
    I’d wager that his appearance, in the end, bears little significance, as it did in
    the books. I will miss his keen intellect in surmising Tyrion’s character, among
    other things, his shrewd wit and alpha male bravado. The main thing is establishing
    historical relevance to Dorne , with perhaps a mention of his sister having married
    Rhaegar Targaryeon. Doran’s understanding of the important role that Oberyn
    played is one story I prefer hearing from Doran himself, the planner of things.

    The best is yet to come, with Doran’s appearance, Randyll Tarly, to name a couple.

  692. WildSeed
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard:
    WildSeed,

    So much off-color humor in here!

    I know. I was hoping to inject a bit of absurd humour . *>* . Descriptive rhetoric,
    in the context of discussing ethnicity or culture is not only outdated but irrelevant.

  693. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Eljuma:

    Missandei and Grey Worm, as well as XXD and Salladhor Saan (people who were nearly albino in the books, but nobody gave a shit that they got “pigmented” in the adaptation)

    Missandei was not white in the book actually. Her skin description is not extremely precise, but she had tanned/light brown skin. The only significant change in the adaptation was her age. Grey Worm was, according to George RR Martin himself, not specifically white. GRRM confirmed that he had no race at all in mind for Grey Worm. If you defaulted to white when reading the books, that’s your problem. Salladhor Saan is Lyseni, who are typically fair-skinned people, true. But albino, hell no. Salla is not like that. He is described as extremely tanned, probably since he spent his life at sea, I’ll grant.

    As for your mockery of Chataya and Alayaya’s names and the culture of Summer Islanders- frankly, that doesn’t make you sound any more enlightened.

  694. Eljuma
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Chriss,

    “Everyone’s a nobody until they’re a somebody” should be my house’s words :)

  695. Lex
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    I believe (s)he was referring only to XXD and Salladhor Saan as nearly albino (and “blackwashed” in the show). Missandei and Grey Worm were only listed as examples of Afro-British actors in the show, not characters whose skin colour was changed.

  696. WildSeed
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    Bryan Cogman:
    “clearly a white-passing Latino”.

    I’ll say it again, folks. Wow.

    We’ve come to a new low….. well, that ‘s not accurate ………. some aspire only
    to perpetuate their unawareness or lack of respect for human science.
    This way of thinking only exacerbates misunderstanding and hate.

  697. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    My attempt at humor too. Like Robin Williams once said, “If wars could only be fought with whoopie cushions…”

    Seriously though, in your previous comment you said you “will miss…” certain characteristics of RV/OM. We don’t know that D&D aren’t considering the significant bravado that RV should have. I’m sure Pedro convinced them of that in his audition. He’s got to have that swaggar, dammit!

  698. WildSeed
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    Atreyu: Flat, glossy or semi-gloss?

    Eggshell is a mix between the two, really POC huh (:

  699. WildSeed
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    That’s what I’ve read on the subject. Now it’s just the wait for the cameras and action .
    Really hope the production doesn’t portray him as a buffoon brandishing a
    shiny sword and a pretty wig .
    *>*

  700. Eljuma
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    Indeed.

  701. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    Ours is the Fury,

    If you all had the same opinion maybe the panel was not diverse enough ;)

    Touché ;)

  702. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    hmm perhaps. It was the comment about ‘going against the source to add diversity’ that struck me.

  703. JRR Tzolkin
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm: Unless you’re indigena, then you generally identify in whatever indigenous cultural background you fall in.

    Indeed. And what’s more, a few indigenous peoples have kept their traditions and tongues intact to this very day; they hardly speak any Spanish at all. And if they do, they don’t qualify Latinos, since Spanish is not their native tongue.

    Pau Soriano:

    Not only you’re totally wrong but you’re missing the point entirely ;)

    And by the way, the meaning of a word is the meaning the language we are speaking gives that word, not the meaning that word had in the language it originated from…I think that was pretty self-explanatory ;)

    Oh no, I get your point, believe me. And furthermore, you’re absolutely correct. According to the English Webster’s dictionary, a Latino is anyone born in Latin America. Though in the end, I believe we are both trying to make the same point here, which is that Latino is not a race, and that the Latino culture is very diverse. We’re just taking a very different approach, is all.

    At any rate, no offense, but since I happen to be Latino myself, not only is it impossible for me to be wrong, since I obviously understand my own culture much better than any outsider, but I may just know a thing or two more about the way we feel about this than any “Hispanic non-Latino person” (or in a nutshell, anyone from España ;-)).

    Not to mention that we both have the same right to explain why we feel like this whole “all Latinos are dark of skin” business is mistaken.

  704. WildSeed
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    Lex:
    Eljuma,

    Well said! Thank you for being a voice of sanity, in a sea of moronic hysteria.

    I don’t believe you read Eljuma’s entire post . I read through too fast, initially, but
    ended up giving another ” face palm ” to myself. Several here have provoked
    unnecessary diatribe.

    Time to read a book and curl up to my lemonade. Have a great day GoT fans !

  705. Chriss
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    Hali:
    JR,

    There are a hellalot of Deadwood, The Wire, Sopranos, Breaking Bad, and Justified fans out there who think Game of Thrones is silly and that your bar isn’t nearly high enough.Doesn’t mean they are right anymore than you are right about Dr. Who.What does your opinion of Dr. Who have to do with anything?Why bash other shows in defense of your opinions about this casting choice?

    I’m pretty much the biggest Breaking Bad and the Wire fan out there, but I would never condescend toward Game of Thrones. It has stellar writing. Doctor Who doesn’t. Or maybe it does, and I’m just too post-pubescent to get it.

  706. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    Bryan Cogman,

    You guys might want to think about “leaking” Pedro Pascal’s audition tape so people can see him in action as RV. I don’t think I can take 9 more months of this!

  707. db
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    Newsflash: Apparently this Pedro grew up in Orange County and his parents moved him out of Chile when he was really young and that they’re playing up his Chilean ancestry for diversity points.

    Also, he is white. So, so white.

  708. WildSeed
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    JRR Tzolkin,

    That term is primarily used in the United States, but I hear you.

  709. Eljuma
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    db,

    So he’s the first Californian actor in the show and the first of Chilean ancestry as well.

    There, diversity attained x2.

  710. Andrew
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

    db,

    As far as i’m aware, moving somewhere doesn’t change your ethnicity. Furthermore, he looks no whiter than most of the pictures of Janina Gavankar i’ve seen. People seemed quite quick to point out George said she looks like Nymeria during previous racial debates.

  711. Gatorfisch
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    Pau Soriano,

    One look at the guy, and I think, Hispanic of some kind. I don’t think, “white”. Maybe because of all my friends from Cuba, Puerto Rico, Bolivia, Guatemala, Mexico, El Salvador, etc., but the fact remains, the actor fits within what is considered a POC in the U.S. (At least to most people.) He does not look like his family is originally from Germany, Italy, or any of the former European Axis powers, he looks like he has some indigenous heritage in there…so YES, he is a POC. With your logic, Persians, Arabs, and Palestinians are white, too.

    And to the person who said, “He grew up in Orange County, so he’s white”…what?! Really? Living in Orange County makes one white?

  712. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

    He is not the first actor of Chilean ancestry on the show: Oona Chaplin is.

    And people mention him being from Orange County not to deny his heritage but to point out that Pascal is American. There is a slight deception in the PR release, in that Pascal is being presented as though he is currently from Chile when he is very much an American, who has spent the vast majority of his life in the US. That does not affect his ethnicity, of course.

  713. LordStarkington
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:

    And people mention him being from Orange County not to deny his heritage but to point out that Pascal is American. There is a slight deception in the PR release, in that Pascal is being presented as though he is currently from Chile when he is very much an American, who has spent the vast majority of his life in the US. That does not affect his ethnicity, of course.

    db’s previous post pretty clearly implies that he’s not “really” Chilean because he lived in the United States.

    As for your comment about ‘deception’, that’s an interesting (and I would say poor) way to phrase it. What if he considers himself Chilean due to his ancestry, regardless of where he grew up? My mom spent most of her life in the United States, having moved here in the ’60s as a little girl but still considers herself Greek first.

    Unless someone knows otherwise, isn’t it possible that he considers himself Chilean? Or that he/his representatives asked for that description?

  714. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    JRR Tzolkin: Indeed. And what’s more, a few indigenous peoples have kept their traditions and tongues intact to this very day; they hardly speak any Spanish at all. And if they do, they don’t qualify Latinos, since Spanish is not their native tongue.

    Oh no, I get your point, believe me. And furthermore, you’re absolutely correct. According to the English Webster’s dictionary, a Latino is anyone born in Latin America. Though in the end, I believe we are both trying to make the same point here, which is that Latino is not a race, and that the Latino culture is very diverse. We’re just taking a very different approach, is all.

    At any rate, no offense, but since I happen to be Latino myself, not only is it impossible for me to be wrong, since I obviously understand my own culture much better than any outsider, but I may just know a thing or two more about the way we feel about this than any “Hispanic non-Latino person” (or in a nutshell, anyone from España ;-)).

    Not to mention that we both have the same right to explain why we feel like this whole “all Latinos are dark of skin” business is mistaken.

    Haha I hear you, and to further complicate things I’m from Barcelona, which is technically Spain, but my mother tongue is not spanish, it’s catalan, and me and the majority of barcelonians/catalans (according to the latest polls) don’t feel spanish and want to secede (much like (some of) the quebecoise,for reference), so I don’t even know if I’m hispanic anymore :P

  715. Andrew
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    LordStarkington,

    Really, it’s our own faults. The massive outrage over casting a girl from Essex as Missandei, or casting a Londoner as Grey Worm should have tipped us of. How could we forget how relevant to the discussion an actors place of residence was then?

  716. imlad
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

    Vikestad: If you can’t be sensible, go to westeros.org where you belong.

    That’s gotta be the best comment I’ve seen in this thread! Sure, there are SOME sensible people over there, but if you spend enough time on the boards there you soon realize they are in the minority.

  717. imlad
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm,

    Nah, Idris Elba is the perfect choice for Moqorro. I think I’d mess myself if I saw a casting announcement saying Elba was gonna be playing my favorite Red Priest.

  718. imlad
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

    db,

    And you incessant comments like this prove you are racist. Oh so frakking racist.

  719. Turncloak
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    I don’t think it was deception. They could have said Chilean American I guess but that is not a big deal in my opinion.

  720. db
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    the willful ignorance in these comments is so disgustingly appalling

  721. Atreyu
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

    db:
    the willful ignorance in these comments is so disgustingly appalling

    Don’t be so hard on yourself. I, for one, appreciate your efforts in getting this dead horse to 1,000 replies.

  722. Turncloak
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

    Atreyu,

    Hahaha

  723. JRR Tzolkin
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    Pau Soriano: Haha I hear you, and to further complicate things I’m from Barcelona, which is technically Spain, but my mother tongue is not spanish, it’s catalan, and me and the majority of barcelonians/catalans (according to the latest polls) don’t feel spanish and want to secede (much like (some of) the quebecoise,for reference), so I don’t even know if I’m hispanic anymore :P

    See, I knew you were from Spain. Just didn’t know where exactly. Barça, huh? Well, I had a g/f from Barcelona once (she grew up in Chile, though) and another one who went to college there, so I know a bit about the city and Catalunya in general. And yep, I know it’s complicated, what with this talk of secession and all.

    But yeah, this means I did know where you were coming from and I hear you, believe me. As for the secession, who knows? Maybe it’ll never come to pass or maybe someday it will succeed, but if Spanish is your native tongue, then you are Hispanic just the same (even if not Spaniard anymore ;-P)

  724. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    There’s almost no way to accurately discuss race and ethnicity in the Americas. Excepting recent immigrants, people do not necessarily even know what ethnicity they are. Therefore it’s silly to make assumptions about others based solely on looks. I didn’t find out I was part Native American until we got our mitochondrial DNA tested (I’m otherwise northern European). Brian Sykes tested Americans from different parts of the country with all different skin colors using the chromosome painting technique. This tests each individual chromosome and can determine if it’s African, Asian or European and almost everyone had a mixture. The country would be such a better place if we all got genetic testing so we can all just start viewing ourselves as individual melting pots.

    Rant over.

    I think the Dornish just had to be different than the other Westrosi. I don’t know or care if Pedro Pascal is Spanish or Amerindian or both. He doesn’t look like a Briton or Anglo-Saxon, so mission accomplished. I don’t think he would have been cast if he didn’t play the part well. It’s safe to say the audition involved many line readings and they didn’t just look at head shots or something.
    It’s absurd that people are complaining about Pascal’s skin tone being wrong. I say that as an avowed leftist who is pro affirmative action and anti voter ID laws and is glad Paula Deen got fired!

  725. Olenna's Dietician
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    Let’s wait 9 months or so and *then* see who will be on a diet of their own words. Proof of the pudding and all that.

  726. Rhys
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

    Does anyone know whether Pedro does his own stunts? His role may contain a few.

  727. Addie
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

    Atreyu,

    Ill add one to the list.

    The hand wringing and purist rage going on here over a topic that isn’t even set in stone (the depiction of dorne) is absurd.
    But not as absurd as the POC crap.

    My thoughts he looks the part, I can see it, and I’m more eager to see the screen version of the red viper before I pass judgements.

    But where’s his widows peak?
    NOONEUNDERSTANDS. ? Right?

  728. imlad
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

    Nick: The show is painfully white, with minorities disproportionately represented as villainous or savage.

    There is only one character on the show played by a “minority” that was villainous: Xaro Xhoan Daxos. And the thing is, the character in the books was white (ALBINO like white). So by “colorizing” the show as so many of the whiners here (and at other sites online) demand, they created the problem of minorities being cast as villains.

    Of course in you almighty arrogance you seem to forget that EVERY SINGLE NASTY MOTHERFUCKER on the show (characters that make Xaro seem like Big Bird) is white. If I was to act like all of you racists who complain about the ethnicity of the actors being cast, I’d be bitching about the anti-white people racism this seems to portray.

    Sorry, but the more so many of you complain that Pedro Pascal is too pale, or that the Dornish HAVE to be played by a certain ethnicity, the more you prove that you are racist racist racist, and shouldn’t be allowed on the internet, let alone speak. Why don’t you go over to Stormfront and associate with your ilk? They sure as hell care about race, something any mature modern human wouldn’t normally even think about.

    Gods you racist people piss me right off, almost as much as the racist white Republicans in the American south do.

  729. Lex
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

    For anyone who doesn’t feel like reading 700+ comments, let me summarize the thread for you:

    Everyone is racist.

    The End.

  730. AngryGoTFan
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 11:00 pm | Permalink

    Addie,

    NO ONE UNDERSTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANDS

  731. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

    Just as an effort to turn this conversation just a half-tad, reading the chapter where Oberyn first makes his appearance — and I can already just tell it’s going to be terrific. I only wonder if they name-drop Doran Martell in Ep 1 of Season 4 (I think we meet Oberyn in Episode 2) and how Tyrion is expecting him. I think we’ll get the banner-naming exercise from Pod, as any conversation that involves Tyrion, Bronn and Pod is always fun.

    And then the appearance.

    “The princeling removed his helm. Beneath, his face was lined and saturnine, with thin arched brows above dark eyes as black and shiny as pools of coil oil. Only a few streaks of silver marred the lustrous black hair that receded from his brow in a widow’s peak as sharply pointed as his nose. A salty Dornishman for certain.”

    Pascal’s got the eyes. They’re piercing, and they’re large, which is what you’d want to see. Hair, of course, can be dealt with.

    They obviously won’t be able to get into the Red Viper maiming the heir to Highgarden, given the elimination of Willas Tyrell. I do wonder, though – will the writers find a way to maintain some level of tension between the Tyrells and the Martells? Will we have Mace Tyrell suggesting that he doesn’t believe 300 Dornish should be able to cross his lands without his leave or permission? And if so, what provokes that conversation? Just “long-held enmity”? Do we find that Willas Tyrell was actually killed by Oberyn Martell (a change I think might be too far for just a frosty relationship between the two). Or do we trace it somehow to the Rebellion and assert the Dornish agreed to support the Tyrells but later elected to stay out of the war? Taht would seem to be enough of a motivation, one would think.

    Pedro Pascal is probably in his what, late 30s? So playing him as older than Tyrion might be more difficult. “The boy of sixteen was a man past forty now…” -- but of course in the books, Tyrion is not Peter Dinklage’s age, and even if you age him down from 44, this Tyrion is probably what, 33-35? So maybe the young boy Oberyn could remember the baby Tyrion, at most. Or perhaps that memory is altered somehow. I imagine they’ll find a way to retain the line “You were only happy when you were sucking on a teat.”

    I still remain of the opinion – and hopefully this can come up in another thread – that they’re going to try to fit as much of AFfC and ADwD in late Season 4/Season 5 as possible, with only some leftovers for Season 6. They will truncate some stuff, but it won’t be Oberyn. (I think Nimble Dick Crabbe, Cracklaw Point, the Damphair, some of Quentyn Martell, and the Shavepate get the axe, and Dorne is reduced to Doran, Ellaria, a couple snakes, and Arianne, while Areo Hotah gets the boot. Kettleblacks reduced to Meryn Trant.)

    Anyway, we’re 730 comments into this damned thread that has gotten really testy, and I thought I’d try to shift gears a bit. Those are brave commenters higher up in this thread! Let’s go kill them!

  732. WompWomp
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    WompWomp,

    What do you think episode 9 of season 5 will be? I’m guessing Jon Snow’s Death, and episode 10 will be Dany riding her Dragon for the first time I see them doing books 4 and 5 in one season and trimming the fat with a Bolton flaying knife

    Those are pretty much my hopes. And overall, I dream of less Kettleblacks throughout and a certain anticlimactic barbecue, which I think will work really well onscreen.

    I really struggled to maintain interest in ADWD, so I’m dying of curiosity how they’ll handle S5. The more I think about it, the more excellence we can expect in S4. The material is too strong to suspect otherwise. They’ve taken such wonderful liberties in S3 that weren’t too dependent on the books. I can only hope they work more of that magic post-S4. My only persisting S3 hang-ups were two scenes in the finale. In the end, that’s very little to complain about. I’m actually really excited to see how the GoT crew will bring those runaway page counts to heel in show form.

  733. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 29, 2013 at 11:54 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp: Those are pretty much my hopes. And overall, I dream of less Kettleblacks throughout and a certain anticlimactic barbecue, which I think will work really well onscreen.

    I really struggled to maintain interest in ADWD, so I’m dying of curiosity how they’ll handle S5. The more I think about it, the more excellence we can expect in S4. The material is too strong to suspect otherwise. They’ve taken such wonderful liberties in S3 that weren’t too dependent on the books. I can only hope they work more of that magic post-S4. My only persisting S3 hang-ups were two scenes in the finale. In the end, that’s very little to complain about. I’m actually really excited to see how the GoT crew will bring those runaway page counts to heel in show form.

    Good thoughts all.

    I’d like to see Cersei’s walk of shame as an Ep 9 event, actually – not violent, but powerful all the same, and I think on the level of Tywin’s admonishment of his children in “Kissed by Fire.” One of those emotional beats worth the same as a violent one as we’ve seen before. And I still think we can use Meryn Trant as a stand-in for Kettleblacks. He’s a brutish idiot, and we’re familiar with him. Problem solved there.

  734. WinterRose
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 12:04 am | Permalink

    I imagined Oberyn with long hair (chin level). I hope they manage that.

    Other than that, I think he looks right. Not too familiar with his work, though. Can’t seem to find any videos of his acting jobs on youtube.

  735. Ser Tahu
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 1:06 am | Permalink

    Greatjon of Slumber,

    I personally am hoping for Feast/Dance to take up season 5 and most of season 6, so the candidates for episode 9, as far as I am concerned, are Jon beheading Janos (assuming 1 – they move the election to season 5, and it looks like they might, and 2 – the latter half of season 5 is Jon securing his leadership and dealing with Alliser and Janos’ schemes), Daenerys wedding Hizdahr (with the fighting pit taking place in the middle of season 6, and the battle for Meereen within the first two episodes of season 7), Cersei’s fall and capture by the faith, Bran and co being attacked by wights and reaching the cave (with season 4 being backstory, and them meeting Coldhands the same way that Sam did in the books) and Tyrion and co being attacked by stone men. I then expect Cersei’s walk to be around episode 3-4 of season 6, Jon’s ‘death’ near the end of season 6, Stannis vs the Boltons in episode 9 of season 6, and the Barristan and Quentyn plots in the season 6 finale (with Quentyn dying and the battle beginning in episode 1 of season 7).

  736. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 1:10 am | Permalink

    I’ve finally realized where I was getting my image of Oberyn from. A picture in a Harry Potter book. Something along the lines of Severus Snape, as drawn by Mary GrandPre
    http://images.wikia.com/harrypotter/images/e/e9/Snape_AvKe.jpg

  737. LatinoGOTFan
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 1:24 am | Permalink

    I think having an unknown is great. Peter Dinklage wasn’t a person well known and now he is the best actor of the show.

    Michael McElhatton didn’t look like what I would have imagined Roose Bolton would look like but he nailed the character.Lets wait till the first episode to complain.

  738. mage
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 1:29 am | Permalink

    My name is inigo montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die!

  739. Red Hound
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 2:14 am | Permalink

    Pau Soriano: Haha I hear you, and to further complicate things I’m from Barcelona, which is technically Spain, but my mother tongue is not spanish, it’s catalan, and me and the majority of barcelonians/catalans (according to the latest polls) don’t feel spanish and want to secede (much like (some of) the quebecoise,for reference), so I don’t even know if I’m hispanic anymore :P

    I have troubles believing that the majority of citizens of Barcelona would like independence. It seems to be clearer in the northern areas, but considering how rigged some polls were…

    I believe it’s quite the same as in Balearic Islands -> The minority that wants independence is very loud, but that’s it.

  740. Gatsby
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 3:30 am | Permalink

    1) The importance of Dorne is diversity.
    2) Diversity is not limited to racial diversity.
    3) Racial diversity is not more important than other forms of diversity when it comes to art; in other words, the show does not get more diversity points the darker the actor’s skin.
    4) If they are going Spanish or Latino or some combination with Dorne (we don’t even know yet), it still constitutes significant CULTURAL diversity. That’s a win.
    5) Further, that cultural diversity has a basis in the text, as Spain is one of Dorne’s influences. That’s a win.
    6) Further, people have argued that the importance of Dorne is providing characters a different segment of the audience can relate to. I didn’t know this meant just a certain shade of people. Chilean fans have already expressed their pride in this pick. Do they not matter? AND if they cast the other Dornish as individuals from Spanish-speaking cultures, well that is large number of people in the world that can feel more included. So that’s a win for the show as well. (And just something to think about, who do people relate to more? Someone who looks like them or someone who acts like them? I look more like a Dornishman, but I relate most to the Starks.)
    7) The actor looks close enough to the physical description. Yes, he even looks to qualify as, “olive skinned.” Win.
    8) As a Chilean, Pascal is likely of mixed racial heritage. No one knows how he defines himself. No one knows how he experiences the world or whether or not he has ever felt discriminated against. So saying something like he is, “at least white passing,” is inappropriate and offensive. It sounds like you are relegating him to some sort of limbo between categories based on his skin tone and mixed heritage. Or that he is not “white enough,” or he is not, “POC enough.” No one has the right to make those claims. Don’t know what it must be like for him to see people on the internet debating who he is in such an overtly racial manner.

  741. SeanFan
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 3:36 am | Permalink

    Michael274:
    Canary,

    I’ve seen him in LOST. That guy has no charisma whatsoever .

    The guy has never appeared in LOST!!!! There is more than one Latino out there that acts.

  742. Chickenduck
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 4:20 am | Permalink

    SeanFan: The guy has never appeared in LOST!!!!There is more than one Latino out there that acts.

    Michael274 and Canary were talking about Naveen Andrews.

  743. John
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 4:25 am | Permalink

    Dragon Tender: Read his blog.He’s already written on the issue.

    Short version — Martin’s done TV before, and if you’re going to do shots with lots of extras, you need to be able to go some place where you can cast a lot of extras.So it was always likely that the ethnicity of the people of Dorne was going to map to some country in Europe that was, well, “off-white”.

    It would be fun to have South or East Asians, or Sub-Saharan Africans, but the locations in question are just too far for it to be practical.

    So George is down with this.

    Off topic but nevertheless interesting (from the interview linked above):
    And for us what is most enticing about this series is, if we’re lucky enough to get to the end, there will be 80 hours of screen time with a beginning, middle, and a real end.
    Looks like they are planning on doing 8 seasons right now – with or without the last two books?!

  744. Jentario
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 4:31 am | Permalink

    mage:
    My name is inigo montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die!

    My name is Oberyn Martell. You killed my sister. Prepare to die.

  745. Holbac
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 4:36 am | Permalink

    SeanFan,

    He was talking about Naveen Andrews.

  746. YvyB
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 4:58 am | Permalink

    Addie,

    He has a widow’s peak …

  747. socrates k
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 4:59 am | Permalink

    I was super excited with the rumors of Cosimo Fusco as the Red Viper ,since, lookwise he was EXACTLY as i pictured Oberyn while reading ASOS .I giggled when i saw this guy’s picture as he looks very Che Guevara-ish,but nevertheless i’m really looking forward to see his acting chops,it’s a very demanding role in order to avoid making it cheesy..but interesting choise, it kinda grows on me by the minute.And to the person who suggested Sofia Vergara as Ellaria Sand,YOU SER ,DESERVE THE IRON THRONE..

  748. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 5:31 am | Permalink

    Red Hound: I have troubles believing that the majority of citizens of Barcelona would like independence. It seems to be clearer in the northern areas, but considering how rigged some polls were…

    I believe it’s quite the same as in Balearic Islands -> The minority that wants independence is very loud, but that’s it.

    It has nothing to do with the Balearic Islands, is not only the polls, in the last official elections the parties that went with a pro-independence message, and believe me, that was the only thing that was discussed on the elections, won the majority of votes and representatives, with a clear 2/3 of the catalan parlament.

    Do your homework before making bogus statements ;)

    PS: But that doesn’t realy matter does it? We just want to vote like the scottish will in 2014, and the spanish resistance to the referendum the only think is doing is creating more people for the secession, wich seems now irreversible. The scottish will lose, but we, thanks to the spanish, will win

    See you in 2015 ;)

  749. Macha
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 5:37 am | Permalink

    Vikestad:
    This old gag. If you can’t be sensible, go to westeros.org where you belong.

    Funny thing is, I checked the first 8 pages of the casting announcement thread at westeros.org. Couldn’t find one unreasonable comment.
    Eh, but who cares, right? This thread gets diversity points. ;-)

  750. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 5:56 am | Permalink

    JRR Tzolkin: See, I knew you were from Spain. Just didn’t know where exactly. Barça, huh? Well, I had a g/f from Barcelona once (she grew up in Chile, though) and another one who went to college there, so I know a bit about the city and Catalunya in general. And yep, I know it’s complicated, what with this talk of secession and all.

    But yeah, this means I did know where you were coming from and I hear you, believe me. As for the secession, who knows? Maybe it’ll never come to pass or maybe someday it will succeed, but if Spanish is your native tongue, then you are Hispanic just the same (even if not Spaniard anymore ;-P)

    But spanish is not my native tongue, my mother tongue is catalan. We also speak spanish, because we learn it in school, through friends, tv..but at home, with my family (not only parents and brother, but all my grandfathers, uncles and cousins) I only speak catalan. Again, like in Quebec the french-canadians speak french, but also english as canadians.

    That’s an interesting debate, because most scandinavians speak english better than all my grandparents spoke spanish for example…does that make them the english equivalent of hispanic? Checking the following map surely seems to indicate it

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anglospeaking_population_2013.png

    Moreover, with all the hispanic inmigration in the USA soon there will be more english speakers (by %) in sweden than in some states of the Union ;)

  751. A Man Grown
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 6:07 am | Permalink

    Yay for casting news, don’t want to touch this discussion with a ten-foot pole, but must say:

    Please bring back Conan Stevens! Or find someone equally menacing.

  752. Adam Whitehead
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 6:08 am | Permalink

    So I’ve extrapolated GRRM’s writing. From Jan 2012 to October of 2012 he wrote 400 pages of manuscript writing (with 200 considered completely finished). If it takes 1500 completed manuscript pages to complete a book than we can expect D&D to have about 840 pages of finished source material or about 56% of the completed book by the time they start filming season 6 in July of 2015. If the goal is to finish the series in 7 seasons then D&D will have to use material from the 1500 unfinished manuscript pages to shoot the rest of season 6. For season 7 the show will completely usurp the book, as GRRM will only just begin to start writing A Dream of Spring

    Trying to predict how long GRRM is going to take TWoW based on his previous writing pace is completely futile. At that speed it would take eight years to completed TWoW, and I don’t know anyone who thinks it’s going to take that long. As GRRM has said, the reason it’s taken that long is because he overloaded himself with side-projects, which are now pretty much all gone, so he can concentrate fully on TWoW (and as a result is now making ‘quick’ progress, as he said on Conan O’Brien). He also wrote 250,000 words for THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE in just a few months: based on that he could complete THE WINDS OF WINTER in less than a year, which I don’t think anyone is realistically expecting either.

  753. msd
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    I’d just like to say good luck to Pedro because I don’t want him or any of his friends or family members to think all fans of the show are psychotic.

  754. Arkash
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 7:13 am | Permalink

    Pedro Pascal is probably in his what, late 30s?

    He’s 48, even older than Oberyn himself.

  755. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 7:26 am | Permalink
  756. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    I agree extrapolation is futile as its not time but motivation that is the key issue for any professional writer and GRRM’s motivation has radically changed since he got the TV show – on the one hand he now really wants to finish before the show, but on the other he no longer needs to as he already has far more money than he and his family can conceivably spend.

    But if he really wrote 250,000 words of The World that is the underlying problem laid bare – they only wanted 50,000 and for Elio and Linda to do most of the work but he is now clearly quite incapable of editing himself or project managing his work and too famous for anyone to force him to or even tell him anything that he doesn’t want to hear.

    Plus as it has been bloated into a multi-volume monstrosity and delayed to next Spring this and not the TWoW will be the publisher’s tie-in volume for S04 and 2014 – which means his motivation for finishing TWOW before 2015 will decline even more.

    And even if he does somehow manage to deliver TWOW for Spring 2015 the chance of seeing DoS a year later is miniscule – so unless TWOW has 2 full seasons worth of filmable material (which I doubt as parts of it will probably be in S05 if they want to actually have any drama in it) he will still get overtaken in 2016.

  757. Reverse Nielsen
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    Arkash,

    Where did you read that? His resumé on IMDb states his playing age as 25-35. His actual age is not listed on there.

  758. tysnow
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    Arkash,

    He’s 48, even older than Oberyn himself

    According to GoT Wiki, Mr. Pascal was born on the 2nd of April, 1975, which makes him 38. Furthermore his IMDB page lists his acting range as 25-35.

  759. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    Arkash,

    Virtually every male actor in TV or films is playing characters at least 10 years younger than themselves.

    And in the books Robert, Ned, Catelyn are all early to mid 30-somethings (Catelyn in AGoT is still wondering how many more children she might bear Ned) being played by late 40 to 50-something actors in the series.

    Indeed I don’t think there is a single recurring character in the show who is not played by a significantly older actor.

    And how old is the Viper?

    He has not one but 9 adult bastard daughters the oldest of whom seem to be in their early twenties but is still young enough to be a great fighter, so 38 – Pedro’s actual age – sounds about right and indeed he may be the first significant GOT actor portraying someone older than he himself is.

  760. Arkash
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    I cant find his exact age, his date of birth varies between 1975 and 1965 online… so 38 or 48…

  761. tysnow
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    Now let’s cast Cote de Pablo as Arianne; she’s also is Chilean, a NSI vet (big American following) and GoT is one of her two favorite shows. As you can tell from the pic I linked, which showcases her in a somewhat Arianne pose, she passes the Salty Dornish test, the sexy gorgeous goddess test, she can sing (serenade Ser Arys) which is always a plus; classically trained etc, etc. She now tops my list for our favorite Princess of Dorne; which I might add is constantly evolving.

  762. Balerion
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    I trust Nina Gold 100%.

  763. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    Gatsby,

    Just reread the chapter in SoS that introduces the Viper and the Dornish in general and has the split between Salt- (dark and clearly Mediterranean-looking with olive skin and black hair), Sand- (dark but sunburnt) and Stone- (much like other Westerosi but more suntanned) Dornishmen.

    So clearly ‘Latino’ is right as a general casting guideline – although don’t forget the Dornish line has Targaryen i.e. so pale as to be almost albino – blood as well.

    And economics are far more important than the obsessiveness of fans – they can afford to shoot in Northern Ireland, North Africa, Iceland and Croatia so the colour palette of the population is limited accordingly.

    Indeed given this I suspect that we may never see Dorne itself at all as none of the chapters set there (as opposed to ones featuring Dornish characters abroad) advance the main character arcs at all.

  764. Vikestad
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    The show should ignore the different types of dornish. Not worth wasting 3-4 minutes explaining that to be honest. It’s bs and unimporntant.

  765. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 8:48 am | Permalink

    Should have been Danny Trejo….

  766. Ser Bro
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    Lex:
    For anyone who doesn’t feel like reading 700+ comments, let me summarize the thread for you:

    Everyone is racist.

    The End.

    Bingo.

  767. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    Arkash,

    Can’t see any 1965 birth references online but he doesn’t look 48 and started landing roles playing very young men (an actual freshman in a 1997 Buffy the Vampire Slayer for instance) in the mid-late 1990s so even though it is possible he is massaging his age down and may be older than 38 he is almost certainly not much over 40.

    And we are told that Book-Oberyn is over 40 when he meets Tyrion.

    So age-wise he is if anything too young given that every other TV character has been aged-up.

  768. Vikestad
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    What I am worried about is if they decide to FEM the Red Viper up. I mean, they made Renly a sissy right?

  769. Sara
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    he is white. just google it… he is pale as hell… and I know what is live in a place that sun burns ( I am from Rio). omar metwally would be a better choice.

  770. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    Vikestad,

    So we’re adding homophobia to the racism (and mad accusations of racism) now?

  771. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    Roger:
    Adam Whitehead,

    I agree extrapolation is futile as its not time but motivation that is the key issue for any professional writer and GRRM’s motivation has radically changed since he got the TV show – on the one hand he now really wants to finish before the show, but on the other he no longer needs to as he already has far more money than he and his family can conceivably spend.

    But if he really wrote 250,000 words of The World that is the underlying problem laid bare – they only wanted 50,000 and for Elio and Linda to do most of the work but he is now clearly quite incapable of editing himself or project managing his work and too famous for anyone to force him to or even tell him anything that he doesn’t want to hear.

    Plus as it has been bloated into a multi-volume monstrosity and delayed to next Spring this and not the TWoW will be the publisher’s tie-in volume for S04 and 2014 – which means his motivation for finishing TWOW before 2015 will decline even more.

    And even if he does somehow manage to deliver TWOW for Spring 2015 the chance of seeing DoS a year later is miniscule – so unless TWOW has 2 full seasons worth of filmable material (which I doubt as parts of it will probably be in S05 if they want to actually have any drama in it) he will still get overtaken in 2016.

    You’re math is wrong ;)

  772. tysnow
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 9:42 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    For anyone who doesn’t feel like reading 700+ comments, let me summarize the thread for you:
    Everyone is racist.
    The End

    I’m not, I love Asian, African, Latin, Indian, European (even Croatian:), Slavic and Middle Eastern women; I am therefore officially non-racist when it comes to the opposite sex.

  773. QueenOfThorns
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    Lord_Grimjaur: it seems Red Viper’s role would be played down and shown as just another support role.

    Dude, he is just another support role. He’s in literally 3 scenes in the book. Maybe they’ll add 1 or 2 more to round him out a bit but I doubt more than that.

    I don’t think I will ever understand fanboys’/girls’ insane obsession with Oberyn Martell. He’s a cardboard character plot device. When asked why they like him the typical response is OMG SO BADASS OMG!

  774. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    Sara,

    FFS its a TV fantasy show.

    You are massively constrained by the actors who are available and ability to – you know -act will always trump appearance within limited parameters (i.e. a couple of characters need to be really tall, another one really short etc).

    As you might have noticed Emilia Clarke is not a violet-eyed albino, Lina Heady is not a natural blonde and not the most attractive woman on an entire continent, Nicolaj Costa-Waldau is not her identical twin, Peter Dinklage is rather a handsome man and not the hideously ugly figure Tyrion is described as even before he had his nose completely chopped off, Tywin doesn’t have luxuriant side-whiskers everyone is older etc etc etc.

  775. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    QueenOfThorns,

    Which math?

    And in what sense wrong?

    This is all hypothetical as we don’t know how much GRRM has actually written or even if there will in fact be 8 seasons.

    Although I doubt it they could stretch out the 1/3 of SoS they haven’t done into a whole season and stretch out AFFC and ADWD over two more whole seasons – but then at some point viewers will realise they’ve just been watching Tyrion piss over the side of a boat and count turtles and Dany doing whatever the hell it is she doesn’t do in Meereen for weeks and weeks and give up on it and the series will die.

    And I really hope I am wrong that George will get his finger out and complete both books before the series overtakes him.

    So am not sure math really comes into it.

  776. GhostCR
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 10:15 am | Permalink
  777. Cary Storm
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    Roger: Nicolaj Costa-Waldau is not her identical twin,

    Um, not sure that Jaime was Cersei’s identical twin in the books. Unless I missed a scientific impossibility that Martin wrote.

  778. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    QueenOfThorns,

    The Viper has indeed three great scenes but that is a function of you only seeing him from Tyrion’s POV – if you had POVs from Cersei, Oleanna, Tywin, Varys, Loras, Margaery etc he could be up to all sorts of other interesting stuff as well.

    If they wanted to pad out the 1/3 of SoS they didn’t use in S03 they could make him a bigger figure involved in multiple intrigues.

    I hope they don’t and instead throw in as much as AFFC and ADWD as possible but at this stage we just don’t know.

  779. Ser Tahu
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    Roger,
    although they ended season 3 at around 2/3 of the way through the novel (it was actually closer to 5/8), that last part is by far the most eventful, and there was a lot of stuff in the first 2/3 that they skipped, but still have to cover (especially in King’s Landing). We might see the first 1/2 chapters from some storylines in Feast/Dance creep into the end of the season to set up for next season, for the most part there is easily enough material there (and as far as the Night’s Watch is concerned the ASoS material could (and in my opinion should) carry over into the first few episodes of season 5. If they are to do the election any justice at all, they can’t cram it into the last episode of season 4).

    And as for Feast and Dance themselves, there is easily enough material for 1.5-2 seasons, depending on the storyline (although some storylines that end earlier in the books, such as Bran’s and Davos’ may need to enter TWoW stuff earlier than that). I believe that the 8 season estimate from D&D was made not with the assumption that AFfC+ADwD will be one season together, but rather with the assumption that TWoW and ADoS will be one season each (an assumption that I think will end up being wrong, with those two books necessitating 1.5 seasons each, ending the show on 9 seasons).

    Cary Storm,
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin#Semi-identical_twins
    So it is scientifically possible for Jaime and Cersei to be identical twins… kind of. And based on how they are described in the books, I think that this is the most likely scenario.

  780. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Cary Storm,

    Certainly they are twins and somewhere Cersei actually talks about swapping clothes and roles with Jaime and being able to fool everyone in Casterly Rock which implies that they look very much alike indeed.

    You are right that identical monozygotic twins are almost always of the same gender but there are also semi-identical or half-twins who are genetically closer than just fraternal twins and can be different genders.

    Plus I’ve known fraternal twin brothers and sisters who were so alike that I assumed they were identical even though technically they certainly weren’t.

    And the Lannisters are clearly rather accident prone genetically (plus this is a fantasy world where genetics work rather differently – i.e. you have wargs, green-dreamers and flameproof Targaryens – so identical twins of different genders may not be that much of a stretch).

  781. Drfunk
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    Atreyu:
    Turncloak,

    They ain’t Eskimos, either. What’s your point?

    I understand the point you were trying to make but I find it hilarious you’re using a derogatory term to illustrate your pro pc agenda.

    Would love to have a separate Viper thread, where we do NOT TALK ABOUT HIS @#$@ SKIN COLOUR… so we can have some useful info on the actor… or even talk about what you feel they could successfully adapt and dread getting cut. Everyone’s opinion should be respected but this silly argument going tit for tat regarding skin colour just degenerates this whole thread with silly debates. I honestly couldn’t give a @#$@ about his skin colour. What I want is the spirit of the books being brought to life.

    This means, I want the swagger, the sexiness, the brooding violence at a moment’s notice, a tongue sharp enough to best Tyrion, insane skills with his spears, and above all the commanding presence to essentially convey to NOT @#$@ WITH HIM. If he can bring even 50% of all that then I’d be terribly happy.

  782. Turncloak
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    I think the nights watch election shouldn’t take more than 5 minutes. It was a short read to begin with. They can easily have it in episode 10

    They will probably handle it like the “queen musnt know” segment of season 2

  783. Ser Tahu
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    Roger,
    I don’t think that skinchanging and green dreams are to do with genetics. And there is no such thing as flame-proof Targaryens, only flame-proof Daenerys in a one off incident. But yes, genetics does seem to work differently, at least to some extent, in Ice and Fire (such as one of Rhaegar’s children looking like a Martell, and the other looking like a Targaryen).

    Turncloak,
    Well, all sign’s indicate that the siege of the Wall will end in either episode 8 or 9, and the election was a 4 chapter sequence in the books (two Sam chapters and two Jon chapters), with other stuff happening in those chapters as well. So given all that, it seems to me that it makes more sense to have episode 9/10 feature Stannis and the Watch letting the Wildlings through the Wall, and Stannis telling them to elect a new Lord Commander to set up the next season. Then have the election take place over the first 2-3 episodes of season 5.

  784. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    I think we will just disagree on AFFC and ADWD’s adaptability to TV – their huge failings as books are the very issues that make them almost unfilmable (at least if you want the show to be watched and loved and not get cancelled).

    And as they showed with Arya’s arc the show’s writers are quite willing to completely abandon stuff that doesn’t make any sense even on the page (e.g, Book-Arya spending m0nths as Roose Bolton’s cupbearer and never once encountering anyone who has ever been to Winterfell – see also Tyrion the battleaxe swinging killing machine, the whole who is Arstan? thing etc).

    I expect them to apply the same ruthlessness when it comes to much if not most of the meandering filler that is AFFC and ADWD.

  785. Virtus
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    Cary Storm,

    The actors are not twins, that’s what he meant.

  786. Virtus
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu:
    RogerBut yes, genetics does seem to work differently, at least to some extent, in Ice and Fire (such as one of Rhaegar’s children looking like a Martell, and the other looking like a Targaryen).

    How’s that different? If a blond haired man has children with a dark haired woman, there is a 25 percent chance that the recessive gene of blond hair comes out on top. Same with eye color.

  787. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    As for wargs clearly it is a quality that is inherent and not trained and seems to associated with the blood of the first men which is why (some) Starks have it as well as Wildlings like Varamyr and Orell.

    Don’t Green Dreams run in Jojen and Meera’s family? (certainly their father has dealings with the Green Seers) which sounds genetic.

    And their clearly is some sort of ‘dragon-master gene’ which the Targaryens (and presumably other Valyrian nobles) have as we know that the Martells who are only 1/8 or 1/16 Targaryen don’t have it but Dany and some (but not all) of her ancestors clearly do.

    Of course its fantasy so genetics may be a poor way of describing it – but it does appear that wargs and greenseers and dragonlords are born rather than made.

  788. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    Virtus,

    Exactly – and too achieve the level of ‘accuracy’ book-obsessives demand they would have to be twins or at least siblings.

    But how many brother-sister actor pairs are there? (come to think of it Jason Bateman has an actor sister but really can’t seem him as Jaime material….)

  789. johnnytata
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    seriously, some of the histrionics we get on this website are breathtaking, makes me wonder how some of the book readers ever made it through the books without harming themselves. you would think that the vast majority of people on this wagon have some measure of rational thought, but i guess minor bumps will throw the faint of heart off the edge.

    reading people lose their ish over this makes me chuckle. and the sense of entitlement…sheesh. “if you don’t meet my narrow-minded expectations, THEN OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!!!”

  790. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    I only need to look at my own family to see siblings that resemble one or other parent far more than they resemble each other,

    Also the whole Baratheon ‘blood is strong’ thing doesn’t sound like normal genetics at all – every Baratheon for centuries has black hair whoever they shag?

    I really don’t think we can make any firm assumptions about S04 yet other than that there is x % (and certainly way under half) of SoS which isn’t in S03 and so will probably be in there.

    And that we know that GRRM was contracted to write E02 (which is probably already written as I am sure I’ve heard Charles Dance talk in interviews of reading his S04 scripts and a show as logistically complex as this one demands a longer production cycle than most).

    I think its a reasonable assumption that GRRM wanted S04E02 because it has the PW but then under that logic he should have written S03E09 which had the RW – but instead wrote a S03 episode where nothing that important happened at all.

  791. Turncloak
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    It’s very possible that they elect The Lord Commanderin season 5. I just remembered that Stannis needs to offer Jon Snow to be Lord of Winterfell before he gets elected Lord Commander

  792. Cary Storm
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    Roger,

    Identical is not in increments. Identical is like pregnant, one is or one isn’t.

  793. Ser Tahu
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    Virtus,
    I guess, but it just seemed rather unlikely that Rhaenys would have ONLY Martell features, while Aegon would have ONLY Targaryen features.

    Roger,
    Firstly, concerning the stuff that “didn’t even make sense in the books”. Arya was 10 at the time, and 8-9 when the left Winterfell. A single Lord wouldn’t visit Winterfell once every year or two, it was a relatively rare occurrence with most communications done through raven, so the last time Roose and his men would have visited Winterfell would either have been before Arya was born or when she was an infant, so is plausible that none among Bolton’s men would recognise her. Tyrion was never a ‘killing-machine’, but being on horseback and riding down infantry during the confusion of battle would provide a sizeable advantage to even a small man. And the Arstan stuff made complete sense on paper, so I’m not sure what you are going on about there.

    Anyway, I agree that AFfC was a terrible book, but ADwD was good (in fact I consider it to be the second best book in the series, behind ASoS). And almost every storyline would have to be absolutely boring for people to stop watch. The only prominent storyline that would be particularly boring, should the books be spread over 1.5-2 seasons, is Cersei’s. And the Dorne, Iron Islands, Meereen* and Night’s Watch storylines would be particularly strong (especially the Nights Watch storyline). Although it wouldn’t be the shows strongest season, it wouldn’t be bad by any measure and would still likely be stronger than season 2. And even IF it turned out horribly, no popular show has ever been killed by a single bad season. Proof: Sons of Anarchy, Dexter, The Walking Dead, Breaking Bad (season 2 was absolutely boring), and True Blood not only survived three of the worst seasons ever seen on television in a row, but grew in popularity.

    *1 – The complaints about Daenerys’ storyline in ADwD are greatly exaggerated. 2 – It lends itself brilliantly to adaption as long as they shift the focus away from her wanting to have sex with Daario. Season 5 would contain a shadow war and impending siege with a very similar atmosphere to Kings Landing in season 2, but with the added element of her losing control of her dragons, and season 6 would contain The siege, the fighting pit, and then Daenerys’ TWoW stuff with the Dothraki, while the Barristan-Hizdahr and Quentyn-Dragon plots go down back in Meereen, with the battle being set up for season 7. Explain to me how that would make weak television.

  794. Adam
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    Sara:
    he is white. just google it… he is pale as hell… and I know what is live in a place that sun burns ( I am from Rio). omar metwally would be a better choice.

    Have you seen Omar Metwally audition for the Red Viper? Do you know if he’s available and willing to play the role?

    I’m pretty sure the answer to both of those questions is no – assuming you don’t work on the show, of course. So how on Earth could you know if that guy is better than the guy they chose?

  795. LittleCatPaws
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    imlad: There is only one character on the show played by a “minority” that was villainous: Xaro Xhoan Daxos. And the thing is, the character in the books was white (ALBINO like white). So by “colorizing” the show as so many of the whiners here (and at other sites online) demand, they created the problem of minorities being cast as villains.

    Of course in you almighty arrogance you seem to forget that EVERY SINGLE NASTY MOTHERFUCKER on the show (characters that make Xaro seem like Big Bird) is white. If I was to act like all of you racists who complain about the ethnicity of the actors being cast, I’d be bitching about the anti-white people racism this seems to portray.

    Sorry, but the more so many of you complain that Pedro Pascal is too pale, or that the Dornish HAVE to be played by a certain ethnicity, the more you prove that you are racist racist racist, and shouldn’t be allowed on the internet, let alone speak. Why don’t you go over to Stormfront and associate with your ilk? They sure as hell care about race, something any mature modern human wouldn’t normally even think about.

    Gods you racist people piss me right off, almost as much as the racist white Republicans in the American south do.

    Thank you!

  796. Ser Tahu
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    Roger,
    I assumed that green dreams and skinchanging were magical in nature. As for the Targaryens, GRRM himself confirmed that fire-resistance is not a Targaryen trait, and that the birth of the dragons/Daenerys being unburnt was a freak one-off occurrence. In fact, in ADwD Daenerys has blisters from where Drogon has burnt her. But yes, fantasy is fantasy.

    Also there is no correlation between GRRM and huge events when it comes to writing episodes. Season 1 – no huge events at all. 2 – Blackwater (I will concede that one :P). 3 – big events, but not HUGE events. As for Joffrey’s wedding, based on how they have set it up (or rather how they haven’t yet), I would wager that it will happen in episode 4 (or possibly 3, but my money is on 4).

    Turncloak,
    Yes, that is pretty much my take on it. D&D confirmed that “a big battle” will take place towards the end of season 4, so assuming this confirms that the battle of the Wall will conclude around episode 8-9, they would have to rush everything a lot to make the election take place in season 4. Also, by postponing it they give the Night’s Watch storyline a much tighter focus and stronger arc in both seasons. Season 4 – The Watch vs the Wildlings, season 5 – The rise of Jon/Jon establishing his command, possibly with the Janos/Alliser scheming emphasised to make Janos’ beheading a stronger climax towards the end of the season, season 6 – Jon meddling in the affairs of the realm and the growing discontent within the Watch, ending with his downfall. From a storytelling and adpation standpoint it makes a lot of sense.

  797. Adam Whitehead
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    I agree extrapolation is futile as its not time but motivation that is the key issue for any professional writer and GRRM’s motivation has radically changed since he got the TV show – on the one hand he now really wants to finish before the show, but on the other he no longer needs to as he already has far more money than he and his family can conceivably spend.

    This has been true for a while though: GRRM bought his house long before ASoIaF came out and after ASoS was published was probably set for life, albeit at a much more modest level than now.

    But if he really wrote 250,000 words of The World that is the underlying problem laid bare – they only wanted 50,000 and for Elio and Linda to do most of the work but he is now clearly quite incapable of editing himself or project managing his work and too famous for anyone to force him to or even tell him anything that he doesn’t want to hear.

    GRRM has always voluntarily submitted his work for full editing when he no longer needed to, but of course that doesn’t mean that he listens to all the feedback he gets. He says he does.

    Plus as it has been bloated into a multi-volume monstrosity and delayed to next Spring this and not the TWoW will be the publisher’s tie-in volume for S04 and 2014 – which means his motivation for finishing TWOW before 2015 will decline even more.

    The ‘multi-volume’ thing was a major mis-statement of the situation by a website. TWoIaF remains as it always has and will be released next year as a single volume. When GRRM has done is hold back some of those 250,000 words for a completely new concept and project, the ASoIaF version of Tolkien’s SILMARILLION, which he will work on when the series as a whole is completed. That’ll be a text-based book (not a coffee-table, artwork-heavy thing like WORLD) consisting wholly of narrative history, maybe a few more in-depth stories and maybe extrapolation of myths and legends. I assume the fact it’s being held back to after ADoS means it will also expand on things that will not be in WoIaF due to spoiler concerns (i.e. more information on the Others, Children of the Forest, the Harrenhal tourney, Tower of Joy and why the seasons are out of whack, which is something GRRM has said will be explained before the end of the books).

    And even if he does somehow manage to deliver TWOW for Spring 2015 the chance of seeing DoS a year later is miniscule – so unless TWOW has 2 full seasons worth of filmable material (which I doubt as parts of it will probably be in S05 if they want to actually have any drama in it) he will still get overtaken in 2016.

    I think this is accurate. It’s not totally impossible GRRM can finish first, but it is very unlikely.

    And how old is the Viper?

    He’s 41 or 42 when he dies.

    Also the whole Baratheon ‘blood is strong’ thing doesn’t sound like normal genetics at all – every Baratheon for centuries has black hair whoever they shag?

    GRRM has said genetics on his planet are slightly different to those on our world, explaining the Baratheon-always-dominates hair thing.

  798. Adam
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    Dude – use spoiler tags!

    (Otherwise, thanks for the very informative and knowledgeable post.)

  799. BrokenHearted
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    If the viper is not Canadian then consider me out (sounds of TV being smashed up)

  800. Atomix
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 12:36 pm | Permalink
  801. RicknBachn
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    BrokenHearted:
    If the viper is not Canadian then consider me out (sounds of TV being smashed up)

    If the Summer Islanders are not Canadian, consider me out! (sounds of TV stores being smashed up)

  802. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    I still think Stannis and co. will come to the wall earlier than in the books. It was made very clear they were headed north in the season 3 finale. It wouldn’t make sense to not have any scenes with them until episode 9. A breakdown that would make sense:

    Ep. 1-4) Alliser and/or Bowen accuse Jon of vow breaking. Aemon and Jon’s friends stick up for him. Battle prep and the attack on Castle Black. Death of Ygritte. A scene with team Stannis to remind us they are still there. Maybe they make a deal with Sallador Saan.

    Ep. 5-8) Stannis and co. arrive at Castle Black. The LC election process starts. Stannis tries to order the NW around and speed up the election process. Stannis offers Jon the title of Lord of Winterfell.

    Ep. 9) Battle at the wall. Horn of winter and Val and/or Dalla introduced in either 8 or 9.

    Ep. 10) Jon is elected LC. How this will happen without Mormont’s raven I can’t say.

  803. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    I have no clue what happened. The spoiler tag didn’t work. Sorry!

  804. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    Disagree that any season of Breaking Bad was ‘boring’…..

    It is a valid point that True Blood and Sons of Anarchy have had toe curlingly bad seasons and survived – but in both cases it was not a lack of interesting stuff happening that was the problem but the opposite in that the interesting stuff was utterly ludicrous even by the standards of the show (‘I’m a fairy now?’).

    But could SoA survive a season where nothing much happens other than Jax hitch hiking across America holding desultory conversations with truckers, a drink and pill-addled Gemma being allowed to run the club into the ground without anyone standing up to her, some random club member being kidnapped and tediously tortured all season by a rival gang etc.

    Or could True Blood survive one where there is endless talk about some Big Bad coming to town but they never really arrive and where Sookie rejects Bill and Eric and Sam for that annoying teenage quarterback kid who two/three/many times her with the cheerleading squad but only becomes more attractive in her eyes, where the coolest and most badass character (which would be Eric) wanders aimlessly around being utterly lame and passive all season, where seemingly cool new characters arrive looking as if they are going to be a big deal, hang around Merlottes for several episodes doing nothing and then die in some pointless kitchen explosion?

    Which is about as close as I can get to translating AFFC/ADWD into those shows terms.

    And if we are going to stick with the at least one season per book ratio there’d be not one but two terrible and boring seasons of those shows.

    Do half agree that Dany’s story in ADWD might be filmable as it is precisely her internal thought processes that are terrible and kill her character – but these would not be on screen and so you could in fact have real dramatic tension in her relationships – particularly if the siege begins earlier and you cultivate a real sense of paranoia.

    However the same applies to Cersei’s chapters which if they were written from anyone else’s POV and you were given no idea of how unforgivably stupid and one-dimensional she is would be far more interesting in a sort of garish bad OTT soap opera (Dallas or Flamingo Road or Dynasty) – and Lena Heady is just not capable of portraying a character as silly and vicious as GRRM makes Cersei in those horrible POV chapters.

    So I think the show may well redeem a character and plot line that GRRM horribly ruined.

    But otherwise there is nothing interesting or dramatic to portray.

    Clearly green dreams and warging are magical – but this doesn’t preclude them being born or innate abilities and any ability that is inborn can be described as in our terms ‘genetic’ – even though in reality no such genes exist or can exist.

    And fairly clearly there is an association of these abilities with certain bloodlines descended from the First Men – and southrons like the Lannisters whose ancestors burned the weirwoods and drove the First Men into the north scoff at their very existence.

    On the Targaryens I think GRRM is just being inconsistent – he goes to some trouble to establish that Dany has an innate ability to endure levels of heat that would burn and blister anyone else (which is not the same as being entirely fireproof), that former Targaryens believed themselves to be fireproof (even though they weren’t) and to also establish that some people have a knack for dealing with dragons and others don’t and that this is associated with Targaryen blood.

    But if he wants to make Tyrion or Arya say a third head of the dragon then he obviously has to backpeddle on that.

    On Arya you are missing an important element of feudalism – vassal lords and knights like the Boltons were expected to regularly visit and serve their lords in person, to foster their sons and daughters in their homes, to act as hosts when they made regular processions through their lands etc, etc.

    The idea that no Bolton retainer had ever visited Winterfell and that during their occupation of Harrenhall not one Stark retainer from Winterfell ever came to Bolton with orders or reinforcements or supplies is just silly.

    And even if Arya was trying hard not to be noticed (why? even if she feared and mistrusted Bolton and even more Hoat and his companions they would be delighted to send her off to Riverrun and earn their king’s gratitude) we are told that she looked very much like Eddard.

    As for Tyrion even from horseback reach is all and a tiny man with tiny arms perched on a big horse swinging an axe (there is a reason cavalry almost always used swords and lances) would be worse than useless in battle.

    The book battle scenes with Tyrion are just silly for that reason and the TV series were far more realistic and also in character.

    Re GRRM beheading Ned Stark was huge and in his episode as was Blackwater – it was S03 where he chose to write a middle episode rather than one with a big scene.

  805. Adam
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    Roger,

    GRRM didn’t write the episode where Ned was beheaded, he wrote the one before it.

  806. darquemode
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    That sounds about right to me…
    That keeps Jon coming into power at he same time as Cersei and probably Dany as well.

    Although I can see the logic of keeping he seasons split like Ser Tahu mentioned.
    Season 4 – Wildlings attacking the wall ending with Jon offered the North.
    Season 5 – Jon elected Lord Commander and learning to rule.
    Where the season 5 arc ends I have no idea though since it depends so much on how many seasons they plan on having.

  807. Atreyu
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Drfunk: I understand the point you were trying to make but I find it hilarious you’re using a derogatory term to illustrate your pro pc agenda.

    That you think I have some pro pc agenda tells me you don’t understand the point I am trying to make. Which, really, wasn’t a point at all, but a question I asked someone so they could clarify how they imagined the Dornish.

    Also, didn’t know Eskimo was a derogatory term. But, I’ll take your word for it and refrain from its use in the future so as to no longer offend your sensibilities.

  808. Ryan E
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    He looks pretty good for the role. Don’t recall seeing him act in anything before so I can’t speak to that, but the show has a great track record.

  809. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    The ‘multi-volume’ thing was a major mis-statement of the situation by a website. TWoIaF remains as it always has and will be released next year as a single volume. When GRRM has done is hold back some of those 250,000 words for a completely new concept and project, the ASoIaF version of Tolkien’s SILMARILLION, which he will work on when the series as a whole is completed. That’ll be a text-based book (not a coffee-table, artwork-heavy thing like WORLD) consisting wholly of narrative history, maybe a few more in-depth stories and maybe extrapolation of myths and legends. I assume the fact it’s being held back to after ADoS means it will also expand on things that will not be in WoIaF due to spoiler concerns (i.e. more information on the Others, Children of the Forest, the Harrenhal tourney, Tower of Joy and why the seasons are out of whack, which is something GRRM has said will be explained before the end of the books).

    Thank you very much indeed for that detail and that is in fact a book I’d much rather read than another two novels (unless somehow that mojo that deserted him so utterly after SoS returns).

    However a man who is conscious he has 3,000 pages to write in several years taking what must have been months off to produce 250,000 words of deep background that may not even be published in his lifetime is still problematic – rather like Tolkien abandoning Lord of the Rings at The Two Towers until he finally got the Silmarillion absolutely right (which of course he never did so we might still have been waiting for The Return of the King when he died).

    FWIW I don’t even care that GRRM may never finish the series and rather look forward to being able to see S06+ as purely unsullied – what annoys me are the fanboys who constantly assert that he will in the face of the massive evidence to the contrary and that the show should go into hiatus and HBO bankrupt itself rather than leave him behind.

  810. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    Roger:
    Adam Whitehead,

    – so unless TWOW has 2 full seasons worth of filmable material he will still get overtaken in 2016.

    This math ;)

  811. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    Adam,

    You are of course right – so the Blackwater episode was the odd one out as a big event episode.

  812. RicknBachn
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    Atreyu: That you think I have some pro pc agenda tells me you don’t understand the point I am trying to make. Which, really, wasn’t a point at all, but a question I asked someone so they could clarify how they imagined the Dornish.

    Also, didn’t know Eskimo was a derogatory term. But, I’ll take your word for it and refrain from its use in the future so as to no longer offend your sensibilities.

    Eskimo is an accepted term to refer to Alaskans. Although some people use it as a derogatory term for my people, the Inuit.
    If you must use a derogatory term, I much prefer Eskimo to Ice Monkey. Bigotry is everywhere…

  813. Satsuma
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    Well this thread has been very enlightening about how many people view the world. Apparently, to many fans, the single most important factor to consider in Oberyn casting, is whether the actor playing him hails from the exact same racial/ethnic group that they assumed the Dornish to represent in their own headcanons, or has the exact percentage of melanin in his skin as their headcanon Oberyn does.

    Look, there are NO “Latinos”, “Moors”, “African-Americans”, etc in the GOT universe. It is an alternate universe! It’s also an AU based on a historical time that did NOT have a conception of race and ethnicity in the same way we do now. There are no more “people of color” in that world, than there are “feminists”. So, casting an actor with, say, Iranian heritage, would have been no more “canon” than casting an actor with Chilean roots. What matters to me is that the Dornish look different enough from the other Westerosi, that it’s plausible that they are seen as “different” or “Other”. And I think Pedro Pascal does.

    The way people assume “Hispanic” or “Latino” is a racial classification, or the idea that people can be so easily divided into “white” and “POC” is also very simplistic, because the way people in the US perceive this in 2012, is NOT the way everyone else in the world perceives this. A century ago, the Irish faced heavy discrimination in the US, to the extent that you could argue they were not seen as “white” in the terms of “members of a monolithic privileged group that is uniquely privileged to oppress other, non-privileged groups.” Same with Italians, Greeks, and members of other ethnic groups that are now considered “white” (as opposed to “white-passing”.)

    If you look beyond the diversity politics, it seems many people are basically complaining “he doesn’t look the way I imagined he did!” Well, Richard Madden doesn’t look like my personal image of Robb (despite fitting the general description of a stocky, bearded young man with curly auburn hair and blue eyes), but I totally accepted him as Robb. Tobias Menzies looks nothing like my personal image of Edmure, and certainly doesn’t have a bushy auburn beard like he does in the books, but I thought he NAILED the characterization. The TV Boltons look nothing like their book versions, but I can totally buy into their characters. So, if Pedro Pascal knocks it out of the park in interpreting Oberyn as a PERSON (not just a token Dornishman), then his physical appearance will be something I can overlook.

  814. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

    Pau Soriano,

    Still don’t see the problem

    S04 2014 = SoS + AFFC + ADWD

    S05 2015 = AFFC + ADWD + TWoW (i.e. material that should have ended ADWD)

    S06 2016 = TWoW

    S07 2017 = ADoS

    If he publishes TWoW in 2015 the overtaking therefore takes place in 2016 as the writers run out of published material for the 2017 scripts based on ADoS that will be written that year.

    Now of course if they go for 8 seasons TWoW could drag into S07 as well but I’d imagine they have several game plans to finish in 8, 7 or even 6 seasons if the HBO suits demand it.

    Also whatever happens a TV favourite who has been presented as far less morally ambivalent than his book original will probably do something very bad in S04 which will probably cause even greater anguish than the RW.

    And it will also be very difficult to turn AFFC and ADWD into a decent S05 – even more so if they drag them out longer.

    So I can well visualise talk of cancellation after S05 leading to a more truncated run than we’d all prefer.

    Remember nobody has ever taken a TV series this logistically and dramatically complex over 7 seasons before.

  815. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    The Inuit never referred to themselves as Eskimos. That was a term made up by Europeans or European Americans (not sure which).

  816. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    Roger:
    Pau Soriano,

    Still don’t see the problem

    S042014 = SoS + AFFC + ADWD

    S05 2015 = AFFC + ADWD + TWoW (i.e. material that should have ended ADWD)

    S06 2016 = TWoW

    S07 2017 = ADoS

    If he publishes TWoW in 2015 the overtaking therefore takes place in 2016 as the writers run out of published material for the 2017 scripts based on ADoS that will be written that year.

    Now of course if they go for 8 seasons TWoW could drag into S07 as well but I’d imagine they have several game plans to finish in 8, 7 or even 6 seasons if the HBO suits demand it.

    Also whatever happens a TV favourite who has been presented as far less morally ambivalent than his book original will probably do something very bad in S04 which will probably cause even greater anguish than the RW.

    And it will also be very difficult to turn AFFC and ADWD into a decent S05 – even more so if they drag them out longer.

    So I can well visualise talk of cancellation after S05 leading to a more truncated run than we’d all prefer.

    Remember nobody has ever taken a TV series this logistically and dramatically complex over 7 seasons before.

    D&D have already stated they want to make it 80h movie, so thats either 8 or 9 seasons. They are already working towards that so there’s no way they can suddenly wrap it up in 7 seasons satisfactorily. So unless someone dies, it will be 8 or 9

    Assuming 8 seasons, my personal bet is:

    2014 (season 4): aSoS pt 2 ( bits of aFFC/aDWD)
    2015 (season 5): aFFC/aDWD
    2015: By this time tWoW will (probably) be out.
    2016 (season 5): aFFC/aDWD (ending with a battle from tWoW)
    2017 (season 6): tWoW
    2018 (season 7): tWoW/aDoS (the details for the aDoS chapters would have been provided by Martin in 2017, when the scripts were written, or D&D would extrapolate those details from the convo they had last year)
    2018: D&D write the last season, either working alongside Martin, or again extrapolating the details to reach the ending we know Martin has told them the series will have
    2019 (season 8): aDoS
    2019: aDoS comes out, either simultaneously with the show, with the same ending, or some time after the show (maybe even spring 2020), with a different ending, depending on the terms Martin and D&D ended.

    If the show goes to 9 seasons, wich I think is not probable, but possible, then they’ll have more time

    Regarding the other points you make, they are so absurd it will take me another post to discredit them ;)

  817. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Can’t see why you’d sacrifice the high drama of having Stannis and his cavalry literally riding to the rescue when the Wildlings are broken through the wall

    But having him disappear from the story for 9 episodes is indeed unlikely as is having Jon hanging around for 9 episodes while Mance Rayder’s army presumably sits on the other side of the wall doing nothing

    I’d consider it at least possible therefore that the Battle of Castle Black happens earlier and the latter episodes become ‘things fall apart’ material from AFFC and ADWD.

    However this then raises questions of what dynamic stuff redeems the next season 5 and the need to bring forward the battles of Meereen and Winterfell as well.

  818. a.milly
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    He looks close enough to what I imagined the Red Viper to look like, can’t wait to see him in character.

    So far everyone in the series has been cast really well. The only real ‘miscast’ for me has been Renly Baratheon. So they’re 99:1 so far, that’s a pretty good batting average.

    Edit: Actually, season 2 mountain was miscast as well, in my opinion.

  819. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    Pau Soriano,

    And there’s the divide

    I – and not just I – do not see how you can mine two and a half seasons of TV material from AFFC/ADWD without killing the show as there is simply not enough plot and character development (and what character development there is – particularly in the case of Dany, Cersei and Tyrion – is horrible and will alienate everyone other than fanatical fanboys who just want to see the books reproduced verbatim on screen).

    One and a half seasons maybe – thus my seeing the overtake point as 2016 (when 2017 scripts, casting and pre-production will actually be done).

    And whatever the guys say 80 hours (and they are clearly thinking of episodes as an hour long even though they are not) is hugely ambitious and has literally never been done before for a show this expensive.

    So we will differ fundamentally on this and someone like Adam may take another view again.

    But ultimately the decisions will not be artistic but financial and taken by men in suits looking at profit and loss accounts – if they deliver a lacklustre season (as any season based on AFFC and ADWD threatens to be) that loses a lot of viewers and revenue they will not get 8 seasons – if they keep raising the bar despite the unpromising material they now have left to adapt (or GRRM delivers a stonking TWoW) maybe they will.

    But all is speculation.

  820. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    a.milly,

    Funny – I’d say Renly was very well cast – he is meant to be a lightweight and the actor caught that perfectly.

    The Mountain is indeed a problem and the S01 version was better but then only really had to grunt and glare madly in one scene – but British/Irish actors who are physically imposing and can act are very rare and they already have Rory McCann playing the other Clegane.

    More of a problem is the uneven writing – I thought Loras for instance was well cast until they started giving him ridiculous camp lines about how weddings were simply fabulous – but no actor can cope with that.

    Emilia Clarke is another example of that – when she is well written (and particularly doing Valyrian or Dothraki lines) she can be quite convincing but when given nothing to work with (as for most of S02) is embarrassingly weak.

  821. Satsuma
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

    Roger,

    “More of a problem is the uneven writing – I thought Loras for instance was well cast until they started giving him ridiculous camp lines about how weddings were simply fabulous – but no actor can cope with that. ”

    I totally agree, I was not happy with how S3 butchered Loras. Sure, Loras and Renly’s relationship was made much more explicit in the show versus the books, but when we first see Loras in S1, he is portrayed as the brash, somewhat arrogant “Knight of Flowers” that takes down the Mountain using his cunning, and Finn Jones played that very well. I saw his relationship with Renly as first and foremost a believable relationship between two people, which just happened to be a homosexual one.

    S3 Loras pretty much had no role except for being the Gay Guy, as basically the punchline for homophobic jokes not only by the characters in-universe (whose attitude towards gay sex is believable in that society), but the show as well. “Look! Silly Sansa has a crush on the Obviously Gay Guy!” Later on, “Haha! Cersei was pleased that Tyrion had to marry Sansa, but look, she got her comeuppance, SHE has to marry the Gay Guy!”

    Anyway, it seems some fans around here see Oberyn, and the other Martells, primarily as the “token POCs that GOT HAS to have in order not to be accused of being a racist show”, which is a rather sad commentary on how obsessed with race some people are. Yes, the Martells having a different racial/ethnic background from other power brokers in Westeros is important, but there’s a lot more to them than that.

  822. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    Roger:
    Pau Soriano,

    And there’s the divide

    I – and not just I – do not see how you can mine two and a half seasons of TV material from AFFC/ADWD without killing the show as there is simply not enough plot and character development (and what character development there is – particularly in the case of Dany,Cersei and Tyrion – is horrible and will alienate everyone other than fanatical fanboys who just want to see the books reproduced verbatim on screen).

    One and a half seasons maybe – thus my seeing the overtake point as 2016 (when 2017 scripts, casting and pre-production will actually be done).

    And whatever the guys say 80 hours (and they are clearly thinking of episodes as an hour long even though they are not) is hugely ambitious and has literally never been done before for a show this expensive.

    So we will differ fundamentally on this and someone like Adam may take anotherview again.

    But ultimately the decisions will not be artistic but financial and taken by men in suits looking at profit and loss accounts – if they deliver a lacklustre season (as any season based on AFFC and ADWD threatens to be) that loses a lot of viewers and revenue they will not get 8 seasons – if they keep raising the bar despite the unpromising material they now have left to adapt(or GRRM delivers a stonking TWoW) maybe they will.

    But all is speculation.

    First I have to apologize because I copy pasted my prediction for 9 seasons not 8, and made a mistake with the years. For 8 seasons, the last 2 books would take 2 seasons to make, not 3.

    In your planning the show overtakes Martin because you make it a 7 seasons show, but they are planning it as mínimum 8 seasons, so they’re writhing the scripts with that in mind.
    If they make a lackluster season and ratings plummet (wich they wont), that won’t affect the following year, because the scripts would have been written BEFORE the fall on the ratings, so at most it would affect the following plus one season, and by then it’s already too late to shorten it to 7 seasons

    If you can bear with me, worst case scenario I see it going like this:

    2013: Season 4 scripts are already written thinking an 80h show.
    2014: Season 5 scripts are written (in spring), with an 80h show in mind.
    2015: When Season 6 scripts are written ,the show will still be running strong (beginning of season 5, so the ratings will be the ones inherited from season 4, wich will probably be the strongest season to date).
    2016: We’re now spring 2016, we just had the premier of Season 6, ratings are still acceptable, because any big decline in the ratings would take place during the course of this 6th Season, but season 7 is already greenlited and it’s already too late to write the scripts differently than thinking about a 80h show.
    2017: Now even imagining a total debacle in ratings during the 6th season (wich won’t happen, it would be a steady loss but not a debacle, but even then) were already in the spring of 2017 and they have no other option but to greenlite the last season to wrap everything up.

    The end :)

    And let’s not forget they never had such an economically succesful show, wich basically pays itself with international sales, both from the rights of the show and the DVD’s sales. That could change (worst case scenario) in the last 2 seasons, but by then it would be too late and the show would already be done They will reach 8 seasons, because the credibility loss HBO will suffer otherwise would be terrible.

  823. Turncloak
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    I don’t think Janos Slynt getting beheaded will make a good episode 9 at all for season 5. I can see that happening early in season 5 though. For the season 5 climax I can see Jon’s death as being an impactful climax. Either that or they can have the battle of fire and the battle of ice as the climax. Season 6 will be TWOW and season 7 will be ADOS. I hope for books 4 and 5 to be condensed as much as possible so I want both books covered in 1 season while cutting most of the meandering of book 4

  824. Joshua Taylor
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    Satsuma,

    It seemed clear to me that Cersei did not want to be in another loveless marriage. That was why she was so emotionally distraught when Tywin laid down the law. It has nothing to do with him being gay. Also consider the banquet after Tyrion and Sansa’s wedding. Tyrion raises his glass to Ser Lora’s immediately after Loras walks off in a huff after Olenna trolls he and Margaery about the intricacies of the Lannister-Baratheon-Tyrell family tree. He even makes an attempt to converse with Cersei but she will have none of it. Perhaps the writing may have made his homosexuality overt but Loras had some poignant moments in season 3.
    I think overall a lot of frustration with season 3 stems from the fact that D & D made no attempt to give a rounded out season like 1 and 2. The story continues next season basically. So character nuances will be further explored at that time. More and more it is clear given the bitching of various critics who love their week to week episodes of quality television, GoT is designed for the bingewatch.

  825. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Pau Soriano,

    I too very much hope that they get the full 8 seasons.

    But even if it does I’d be very surprised if they choose to pad out S05 and S06 with AFFC+ADWD material rather than giving themselves more room to be expansive with the last two novels (or their synopses assuming as is quite likely we never see either or both).

    And you may be a little optimistic that producers ‘have to’ do anything.

    Any geek of over a certain age can list a number of shows that were much loved and even had reasonable ratings but died before their time because the profit and loss still didn’t add up.

    Arstistically for instance the Borgias just had to have a fourth season as they were making good time towards the point where everyone dies – but they cancelled it after three anyway.

    Now I happen to think that this one does have momentum now for a seven season run as it will be difficult to screw up the fourth season and after that there will be a strong enough audience to survive even the worst material in AFFC/ADWD.

    But on financial side you have the six season problem – most of the core cast seem to have been given six season contracts and are highly likely to demand a lot more money for a seventh and eighth.

    You also have the piracy issue and the danger this poses for DVD sales which were a huge part of a shows profit but are rendered increasingly uncertain by not just the illegal downloading but to DVDs themselves now seeming an increasingly outmoded and fiddly technology.

    And HBO have a particular problem moving to a direct download sale model in that they can easily cannibalise their own subscription model and destabilise the whole studio.

    GRRM not delivering any more novels is also a real risk – as his delivering a new volume which is a real stinker and which even his fandom can’t cover for as this would damage the credibility of the TV show as well.

    Having said this after a certain point a show can outgrow its source – everyone for instance seems to really, really, really hate the final True Blood novel but as the TV show had already deviated more and more from the novels that seems to have had no impact whatsoever on the show.

    But GOT is clearly a very different proposition to TB and GRRM is much more closely involved in it so a bad TWoW could have much more impact than whatever the Charlaine Harris book was called.

    And the longer you extend a series the more in danger you are from pure accident: the loss of a key actor for instance – a particular issue with a cast that has a number of teenagers who like Jack Gleeson may just decide they have other things they want to do with their lives.

    Losing the showrunners is also increasingly common – The Walking Dead is in its third set in as many seasons – and given the peculiar situation with these guys, GRRM and the secret story arc that only they and perhaps one or two others know a dispute between showrunners and studio could be a showkiller here.

    Also world-economic issues may take a hand – for instance a major banking collapse could actually cause real problems to a company like HBO which I very much doubt pays all its expenses from past revenue.

    And as surely we are eventually heading for vast ice zombie hordes fighting full-size dragons over hellish fields of snow and flame this show will get more and more expensive with each season.

    So there are multiple non-artistic reasons why a show like this might not make it to 8 seasons.

  826. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Satsuma,

    I find the POC arguments utterly bonkers as the books are so profoundly racist (above all the Mighty Whitey theme with so-blonde-she’s-virtually-albino Dany freeing all those helpless dark-skinned folk and then have them follow here around and batten on her like a Randian nightmare) so any messing with the racial mix of characters can only be positive.

    And don’t get me started on the sexual politics which go beyond dubious to downright disgusting in ADWD.

    That Martin is himself a good liberal just shows how engrained those assumptions are in the genre.

  827. Joshua Taylor
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    I love how the casting of this one character has sprouted a dozen or so possible threads. Its as if the inclusion of Mr. Pascal to the series has brought every conceivable anxiety about the series to the surface.

  828. El Beto
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Would he know he’s going to die?

  829. voiceareason
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    El Beto,

    Oberyn’s only got about 5 scenes in the book, so I’d say they would have told him about the big fight, since it’s basically all he does. He’s fairly minor, he only has three significant scenes where he’s a focus, the rest of the time he’s in the backround.

    Also, it would be in his contract.

  830. arden
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    Roger,

    In the books the slaves Dany frees aren’t even PoC …??

  831. sunspear
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    Roger,

    I meant to stay off this thread because of the moronic racial controversy. I’ll say that Pedro Pascal certainly looks the part well enough for me and I can’t wait to see his acting skills demonstated. But since we’ve gotten on the subject of AFFC/ADWD, I feel the need to chime in.

    First, let’s put to bed the notion that AFFC/ADWD would need to be ‘padded out’ to fill two seasons. These books are collectively 2000 paperback pages long. In comparison, AGOT was 800 and it filled one whole season. These books do not need to be padded out to fill 2 seasons, they just are that long.

    Some of you might be saying ‘but there isn’t enough story in those pages to last two seasons’. Well, let’s tally up some of the big events of these two books, shall we?

    Tywin’s Funeral, Cersei building up the Faith Militant, her capture at the hands of the High Sparrow, her walk of shame, the Kingsmoot, the Battle of the Sheild Islands, the siege of Dragonstone, the capture of Moat Cailin, the Battle of Deepwood Motte, Ramsay’s Wedding, Theon’s escape, the faked death of Mance, the death of Jon, Davos’s faked death, Arya going blind, Arya killing Dareon, Arya’s first assassination, the return of JH, Sam and Gilly getting together, the death of Aemon, The bridge of dreams, Tyrion captured by Jorah, being captured by slavers, the locking up of the dragons, Dany’s wedding, the fighting pit, the battle of Astapor, Barristan’s coup, the Dragontamer, Arianne’s attempt to crown Myrcella, the meeting with BloodRaven, Jaime finding out Cersei is cheating on him, the siege of Riverrun, Brienne’s fight with the Brave Companion’s, her fight with the Hound, her hanging, and the death’s of Pycelle and Kevan Lannister.

    People say THIS isn’t enough story to last through most of season 6? Nonsense, I say!

  832. Adam Whitehead
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    Dude – use spoiler tags!

    Balls. I hit the wrong button and didn’t check the post afterwards. Sorry, I can’t edit it now. Can a mod do that please?

    D&D have already stated they want to make it 80h movie, so thats either 8 or 9 seasons. They are already working towards that so there’s no way they can suddenly wrap it up in 7 seasons satisfactorily. So unless someone dies, it will be 8 or 9

    When they said 80 hours, then meant 80 episodes and therefore 8 seasons. In other interviews they’ve said 80 episodes. It’s like when people on network shows say they have 22 hours that year, when they actually have 22 x 44 minutes. ‘Hour’ has been a shorthand for ‘episode’ in Hollywood for years.

    I actually think for the final season we could see 11-13 episodes instead. The reason they can only make 10 right now is because they roll straight from production of the season into writing the following season whilst simultaneously doing post on the season they’ve just finished filming. With the final season, they don’t need to worry about writing the next and can pump in a few more episodes for the current season instead (though they’d need to really cram post, but for the final episodes, the big finale and so on, HBO will likely be more indulgent, especially if the show is still hot).

    If the show goes to 9 seasons, wich I think is not probable, but possible, then they’ll have more time

    Whilst things can change, I think we can rule out 9 seasons. They’ve said 8 seasons repeatedly, and the most recent interview confirms it’s what they are thinking. And 8 seasons with HBO saying, “The ratings are tanking and foreign sales are down, so we need to wrap it up in 7, no arguments,” is unfortunately far more likely than HBO saying, “Hey, let’s go for 9 instead.”

    There is also precedent for this: ROME was supposed to last for over 5 seasons (some say 7) and they didn’t stop them finishing in 2, cramming two full seasons into the second. CARNIVALE was supposed to last for six and they had no problem cutting off after 2. BABYLON 5 was supposed to last for 5, but was cancelled after 4, forcing them to rush the ending (although they were saved by another network for a fifth season, but as they’d already wrapped up the story arc they were left with a mostly filler season that wasn’t very good).

    They will reach 8 seasons, because the credibility loss HBO will suffer otherwise would be terrible.

    I wouldn’t put money on this. It didn’t stop them cancelling DEADWOOD and ROME way ahead of time. Sure, they’ve said since this was a mistake, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. If they think it’s a good idea and is necessary to cancel THRONES, they will and worry about the backlash later on.

    But on financial side you have the six season problem – most of the core cast seem to have been given six season contracts and are highly likely to demand a lot more money for a seventh and eighth.

    True, but it should be noted that most shows have an extra option built into their contracts for an extra season. That means at 6 seasons they can agree to do a 7th for a pre-determined raise (this is how the STAR TREK shows, BUFFY etc got to a seventh season but not an eighth) before they need to do a total renegotiation for an 8th season and onwards.

    So the 8th will be the killer, but I think HBO’s logic is that for the final season, the last push, a modest raise should be enough to convince everyone to come back and do the last few episodes, whilst pointing out how much they’re likely to make from Blu-Ray and digital sales of the series for the rest of their lives.

  833. Atreyu
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    RicknBachn: Eskimo is an accepted term to refer to Alaskans. Although some people use it as a derogatory term for my people, the Inuit.
    If you must use a derogatory term, I much prefer Eskimo to Ice Monkey. Bigotry is everywhere…

    “Ice monkey”? Holy shit! Really? What a world.

  834. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

    sunspear,

    But AGoT’s 800 pages are almost all plot and character development with very little padding and the core characters interacting regularly and frequently and new characters introduced sparingly playing their part and leaving.

    ACoK and SoS are similarly tightly constructed.

    So together they make excellent material for TV adaptation and there has been surprisingly little fundamental divergence (with most of that around Arya’s and Bran’s arcs).

    AFFC/ADWD are so much more loosely structured, diffuse and literally all over the map that they might as well be written by someone else.

    Worse they introduce battalions of new characters like the would-be Dornish dragon-tamers, Aegon the Implausible. the Greyjoy Nuncles. Everyone else in Dorne, Huey, Dewey and Lewie Kettleblack, Sellswords by the dozen, maesters and their students, all those tedious people Brienne chats with or kills on her aimless wanderings etc etc etc and half a continent of new locations which do nothing to advance the major plotline which as everyone except George seems to remember is about the Others invading Westeros and Dany returning to save it.

    And all of this new material, new characters, new locations is problematic for a TV show in a way it isn’t for a book as it all costs more and more money – are they really going to cast every middle-aged British/Irish character actor left? scour Europe and North Africa for more and more locations?

    In fact lets revisit your list in two years and I am willing to bet a significant number of those events you list won’t happen at all or will be merged with others – why for instance does Davos actually need to go on any secret missions when his main dramatic role is to act as Stannis’s conscience? why do we need to see any Ironborn other than Asha/Yara? why depict events at Dragonstone and Astapor that are only alluded in passing to as no POV character is involved? why include pointless intrigues in Dorne that do not have any result other than the death or imprisonment of some minor characters?

  835. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    As always a great informative response.

    Agree that while seven should be no problem there will be financial pressures that will make eight a bit more problematic.

  836. sunspear
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    I actually think for the final season we could see 11-13 episodes instead. . . .With the final season, they don’t need to worry about writing the next and can pump in a few more episodes for the current season instead (though they’d need to really cram post, but for the final episodes, the big finale and so on, HBO will likely be more indulgent, especially if the show is still hot).

    I agree. While the show could conceivably last nine seasons if they didn’t cut unimportant scenes from the book and stretched out some of the plotlines, there is no reason to do so. At most, they’ll push the premiere date back until summer and film a couple of extra episodes.

    There is also precedent for this: ROME was supposed to last for over 5 seasons (some say 7) and they didn’t stop them finishing in 2, cramming two full seasons into the second. CARNIVALE was supposed to last for six and they had no problem cutting off after 2.

    Let’s be fair here: Carnivale was not a well watched and I’ve heard it didn’t really get good until halfway through the 2nd season (haven’t seen it myself). Rome was the most expensive show to make ever, the ratings weren’t good, and the BBC had already pulled it’s funding. It wasn’t until the DVD’s sold like hotcakes that HBO saw how popular it really was, and by then it had already been cancelled. And HBO wanted to do something with Deadwood, just not a full season, and David Milch wouldn’t compromise.

    Game of Thrones is more popular than any of these shows, and there isn’t any reason to think it won’t continue to be.

  837. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    arden,

    But being extras from North Africa they are much darker than the paleface trio (seriously what level of sunblock are Dany, Jorah’s and Barristan’s actors using?) that are doing the liberating.

    I don’t care that much because it is fantasy and if you are going to have Mighty Whiteys with magical powers (which defines most fantasy) then I’d much rather they were using their powers to kill vile slavers than cartoonish Dark Lords.

    And dramatically disastrous though that Meereenese knot is for the books it does at least make the point that when the bodies have been cleared away and the slaves told that they are free everything gets much more complicated…..

    But a real critique must not focus ridiculously on casting (and also location) decisions on one show that are actually driven more by economics than art but on the genre itself.

  838. YvyB
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    Don’t you worry Roger … there’s plenty of middle- aged British/Irish character actor’s left ;)

  839. sunspear
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    Roger,

    In fact lets revisit your list in two years and I am willing to bet a significant number of those events you list won’t happen at all or will be merged with others – why for instance does Davos actually need to go on any secret missions when his main dramatic role is to act as Stannis’s conscience? why do we need to see any Ironborn other than Asha/Yara? why depict events at Dragonstone and Astapor that are only alluded in passing to as no POV character is involved? why include pointless intrigues in Dorne that do not have any result other than the death or imprisonment of some minor characters?

    Why did we need Renly, when all of his men end up joining the Lannisters anyway? Why did we need Rickon, Kevan Lannister, or Orell when they don’t have much impact on the plot? Why include Theon, when Balon could just as easily attack the North without him?

    Answer: Because one of the reasons this show is so good is because of it’s wide array of interesting characters. Because people don’t know how plot events are going to play out until they’ve seen them. Saying Arianne is irrelevant because she doesn’t accomplish much is the same thing as saying Robb is irrelevant because he fails.

    PS Quentyn was at the Battle of Astapor. Maybe you would enjoy ADWD more if you paid attention to what you were reading.

  840. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    sunspear,

    Is GOT really more popular than Rome?

    At least in Britain Rome was shown on real terrestrial TV and watched by many more people than GOT which is only on expensive satellite channels that many of us won’t subscribe to for political reasons (their being owned by the most evil man on the planet Rupert Murdoch).

    And like Mad Men the column inches it generates in print and online is wildly disproportionate to the numbers that actually watch it.

    Indeed you can probably name any prime time terrestrial TV show on a major network channel – the feeblest soap or reality or game show or sitcom – and it will get many more actual viewers.

    Now in HBO terms its a runaway success but that is only bankable as long as its rather shaky subscription model stands up and if we’re talking another 5 years that’s a very long time indeed for modern mass media.

    In 5 years we’ll probably all have google glasses and the very notion of watching programmes on a TV or using a DVD player will look impossibly quaint.

  841. YvyB
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    Also , he hasn’t finished yet … you can’t say these people aren’t important to the final plot points as you don’t know ? Surely..

  842. YvyB
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    Roger,

    It is repeated on C4 later… and I’d argue that a huge amount of households have satalite TV

  843. Roger
    Posted June 30, 2013 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    sunspear,

    I will admit that ADWD is a real chore to re-read and whole chapters do just get skimmed.

    Renly being stabbed by Mel’s fanny-demon is one of