Casting News

Red Viper cast!

Pedro Pascal in Burn NoticeHere is the big casting news everyone was waiting for… Pedro Pascal has been cast as Oberyn Martell! Pascal is a Chilean actor who most recently was seen in the TV shows Graceland and Red Widow. Oberyn Martell, aka the Red Viper, arrives in King’s Landing from Dorne and stands to play a pivotal role in the events of next season.

James Hibberd of Entertainment Weekly broke the news and offers this quote from Benioff and Weiss about the casting:

“This was a tough one,” say showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss about the casting. “The Red Viper is sexy and charming, yet believably dangerous; intensely likable, yet driven by hate. The boys love him, the girls love him, and he loves them all back. Unless your last name is Lannister. We found a fellow who can handle the job description and make it seem effortless. He wasn’t easy to find and he won’t be easy to stop.”

Winter Is Coming: We have our Red Viper! I don’t know much about Pascal, so I will have to take some time to familiarize myself with his work. Looks-wise, he is a bit younger and less swarthy than I imagined, but I can live with that. In Nina Gold I trust and all that. What are your thoughts? Does Pedro match the Red Viper in your head? Do you think he can pull off the cocky and confident Prince of Dorne?

978 Comments

  • Hodor

    Ok now that I’ve gotten that out of the way, I checked the guy’s resume on IMDB. He’s been in a lot of stuff.

    Graceland
    Red Widow
    Nikita
    The Sixth Gun
    CSI: Crime Scene Investigation
    Body of Proof
    Charlie’s Angels (the new one)
    Law and Order SVU
    Burn Notice
    The Good Wife
    Law and Order: Criminal Intent
    Law and Order
    Without a Trace
    NYPD Blue
    Buffy the Vampire Slayer

  • Honestly, I don’t know how is his acting, but I’m a bit disappointed, since Oberyn is only gonna appear for these season, probably 7 episodes at maximum, and I guess they could have hired an big star like how they did with Ned.

  • well…I think with long hair and the proper make up and wardrobe he’ll do quite nicely

  • That video of him on Vimeo isn’t so good. Someone find something awesome from this guy!

  • He’s got the large basically black eyes. I think he’ll be fine for the role he just can’t muck it up or it’ll ruin his career. I imagine they’ll use some lighting and makeup to make him seem darker and more menacing in certain scenes.

  • Is there going to be outrage? Should I leave now, or is it safe to stay? I don’t recall ever seeing him in anything, but he looks cool. Hopefully this year we’ll get more spread out announcements rather than nothing for months and then everything.

  • I know what’s going to happen. We’re gping to get some handwringing and whining, and then, with all casting on GoT not named Ciaran Hinds (arguably a different issue as he’s well known), he is goong to turn out awesome.

  • Not what I imagined while reading, but I’ll keep an open mind! If Nina thinks he’s the man for the job then I’ll trust the Gold.

  • Not how I pictured Oberyn (Naveen Andrews is a much more solid match for my mind’s eye Red Viper) but I’m not displeased. I hope they have him grow out his hair a bit.

  • Michel,

    Having a “big name” isn’t nearly as important as having someone who can excel in the role. Given their nearly flawless casting record thus far, I’m quite confident that they saw something special in Pedro, and I can’t wait to see it myself.

  • D&D: “The boys love him, the girls love him, and he loves them all back.”
    I guess that answers the question of how they’ll portray his sexuality!

  • Brightroar:
    He’s got the large basically black eyes. I think he’ll be fine for the role he just can’t muck it up or it’ll ruin his career. I imagine they’ll use some lighting and makeup to make him seem darker and more menacing in curtains scenes.

    They better not do brownface…. I swear to God I will hit something.

  • I prefer the ‘unknowns’ being cast… it doesnt distract from the character they’re playing plus they are more motivated to give the best portrayal of the character as possible…

    Plus…
    In nina gold we trust…

    Do your thing Pedro… (dont f*** it up!)

  • I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t slightly disappointed that they didn’t go with a slightly darker-skinned actor, but I’ll get over it. I do retain hope that they’ll take the opportunity that the highly mixed-race nature of Dorne provides and cast a diverse set of actors to fill out the Martell family.

  • as long as he can play confident without arrogance (a likable version of Daario), it’s all good to me. BUT WHERE’S THE WIDOW’S PEAK?! HE’S NOT DARK ENOUGH, WORST CASTING EVER RARARASDHGKSDGDSK :P

  • I’m just waiting for the Tumblr crew to arrive and weigh in to see if this actor is “diverse” enough. I mean how do you balance the complaint of the guy’s skin not being dark enough with the fact that his name is Pedro? It’s a conundrum.

    I’m on pins and needles waiting to see if the all-important “diversity demand” has been satisfied…

  • Not what I imagined, not what I thought he should look like, but I will wait and see how it all plays out. Once he’s in costume and all that.

  • He’s Latino, which I think is how many people interpreted the Martells. I don’t think painting him darker would be wise. He looks fine the way he is. I’ll check him out a bit more but I’m optimistic. They don’t need a big expensive name for Oberyn.

  • Good look for the role!

    Awesome to have the first casting be a big role!
    He is only slightly different than I pictured the Dornish, although he is not as serpent-like as I pictured the Red VIper!

  • I guess all the fan favs were too expensive? Not available? I don’t know who this guy is but I trust the casting crew of this show 100%.

    But is not what I imagined in my head at all. He is not bad ass looking enough by half. he is a good looking man but he is neither intimidating nor does he give off the vibe the Red Viper needs and does in the books. I guess we shall we how this turns out.

  • And if I haven’t already clarified, I think he looks cool. He’ll be awesome.

  • Terrible to say, but I did expect/want some who wasn’t so light skinned for diversity.

    Does this affect the casting of the Red Viper’s sister & brother? Are they even going to be in the show?

    I wouldn’t mind tightening the Dorne storylines, but I”m fearing most of Dorne will get cut.

  • How many Dornishmen does it take to start a war?

    I assume that if D&D and Nina Gold think he has the necessary swagger and confidence, he should do just fine?

  • I’m the only when I opened the article thaught that guy was Hawkeye from Avengers? (Jeremy Renner)

  • axia777:
    I guess all the fan favs were too expensive?Not available?I don’t know who this guy is but I trust the casting crew of this show 100%.

    But is not what I imagined in my head at all.He is not bad ass looking enough by half.he is a good looking man but he is neither intimidating nor does he give off the vibe the Red Viper needs and does in the books.I guess we shall we how this turns out.

    There are people who are entirely different when they slip into character. I will reserve judgement. Honestly if I’d seen half of the cast before I saw them playing their characters, I would have thought they looked terrible for the part. Weren’t there people who thought Robert would be bad? I didn’t watch the show at that time, so I don’t know. But his personality was spot on. And the casting has been solid in this show, so I will trust them.

  • SerCountryFriedSteak,

    I imagine they’ll hold off on the rest of Dorne till season 5, as well as maybe condensing the number of Sand Snakes. This year will just be Oberyn and mentions of Myrcella, Doran, etc. that way, they don’t introduce too many people at once.

  • I don’t care that much about diversity for the sake of diversity, but Dorne really is a different beast from the rest of Westeros. As long as they get that across, I will be happy, to be honest.

  • he looks good! bit whiter than expected, actually a lot whiter.
    so does this mean an all Latino-Martells?
    i would prefer more diversity for the Martells

  • Really don’t care that his skin isn’t that dark. As long as he plays the role with zeal and passion I’m happy.

  • Oberyn’s swagger is more important than his skin color. I’ll reserve judgement until I see his performance. Besides, I always pictured the Dornish as more Greek than Middle Eastern.

  • voicareason,

    Ditto. He’s a sandy dornishman, and I’m not completely caught up with skin color, I just wanted another nationality other than British, Irish, or American. Chilean works for me.

    I trust the casting, and will reserve my opinion until we see him in action and in costume.

  • Okay, I also expected them to cast someone more dark-skinned, but… I’m Chilean, and having a Chilean actor play one of my favorite characters on one of my favorite series is fucking amazing. I hope he does well.

    VIVA CHILE MIERDA UYUYUYYYYYYYY!!!!!

  • Not trying to be cynical, but I strongly dislike this casting move. Besides the fact that casting a light-skinned Hispanic practically guts the visual distinction of the Dornish before they even get started, this guy’s work history is unimpressive to say the least.

    He’s had minor and medium sized roles in a plethora of terrible shows on a handful of pathetic networks–and now he’s entrusted with one of the most charismatic roles in one of the most popular book series ever? Seriously? Did they walk into a USA Network casting office and grab the first guy they saw?

  • You guys should probably all just take a long, hard look at yourselves. Stating ‘Oh, I bet everyone else is going to say ‘___________’, and then demeaning them for it isn’t clever. It makes you look ridiculous.

    If people have issues with him because of skin colour, because of past experience, let them have those issues. Some people might present them fairly and like civilized human beings.

  • LOVE IT!! I always imagined the Martells as hispanic in appearance so works perfectly :D. I’m so excited!

  • I am sure he will be amazing. Remember when everyone was upset when Michelle Fairley was cast as Cat when she wasn’t a huge name.
    She ended up giving the best performance I’ve seen in years on television at the red wedding

  • To fill the void between the end of the season and the beginning of casting and production news, I’ve been going way, way back in the archives and reading this site from the beginning (I’ve only been reading about a year). It is fascinating stuff.

    Each casting announcement had more than it’s fair share of hand wringing, teeth gnashing, and “NO ONE UNDERSTANDS!!!!!”. With nearly every single character (Tyrion and Tywin were almost universally accepted off the bat, but, I digress).

    And guess what? They all blew us away. I cannot imagine anyone but Emilia Clarke as Dany, Michelle Fairely as Catelyn, Mark Addy as Robert, etc. Not a single actor in the cast has disappointed me in their portrayal of their respective characters (except The Mountain #2 because CONAN).

    In Nina Gold I trust. In D&D I trust.

    Let the actor (and the makeup team, and the costume designers) show us what they can do before leaping to judgement.

  • The ethnicity/skin color question and his acting past are two very different issues. I don’t think the fact that he was on a bunch of different shows over the years is a bad thing. A lot of people don’t become stars overnight. D&D could have cast anybody for this role and they chose Pascal, so he presumably had a very good audition.

    Now having an issue about the ethnicity or skin color is something else, and that I won’t debate, as I would like to see more diversity in general on the show. But having a Latino actor in a notable role is a good start.

  • Definitely whiter than I imagined but I just hope he’s a good actor. Excited now!!!!!!!
    Please can we have more casting announcements at comic con!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • HalfWarg,

    its unfair to judge someone before even seeing them play the character. especially for a show like GOT, where most of the season 1’s POV actors were unknown/firsttime actors. i mean Robert Baratheon was Fred Flinstone. so…

  • I wholeheartedly trust Nina and this guy looks the part to me, I don’t know what it is about him but I approve just from glancing at the pic.

  • I think he looks great and i think we might get some man on man action judging by what D said about the part!

  • In Nina we trust. He looks like a badass, so that’s something. Not how I imagined him, but acting ability is the most important thing.

  • I pictured the Viper with longer hair, but that can easily be achieved with a wig, so it’s not an issue.

  • I can’t speak on his acting, but I think he is different from the rest of the characters from Westeros and he will do fine. He doesn’t look like he is descended from the First Men or the Andals. And really, that is what is important. I always thought they would go with either Latino or Middle Eastern actors for the Martells. It appears they chose the former.

  • the vimeo video will have to be edited from my memory by the time next year comes or i will not be able to take him seriously lol

  • So excited for casting news!

    First thought from glancing at the picture was “not what I imagined at all,” but I think in costume, etc. I could definitely see it.

    Can’t think of any casting on the show I didn’t like once I saw the actor on screen, so I’m not worried :)

  • Grumpy Cat face !!!

    Not happy about this at all, there goes my excitement for season 4.

  • Not crazy about whatever is going on in that Vimeo clip, but again, there is zero context as to what or who’s he going for there. His mannerisms lead me to believe the swagger will be there in spades. Lets just see if being around top-flight talent like Dinklage and company brings out his A+ game.

    Mostly, I just can’t wait to hear those words.

    “You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children.”

  • This really sucks!! I had high expectations for the Red Viper, but this is a let down. I bet this guy came cheap. Looks like we’re in for low budget actors here on out

  • The best news is that this is the first casting news, and hopefully the floodgate is now open.

  • I’m down with this. He looks similar to how I pictured him.

    While watching The Sopranos for the first time (a couple of years ago) I thought Frederico Castelluccio would make a great Red Viper and this guy seems to be cut from the same cloth. Yes, I can get behind this.

    I never expected a huge name in the role.

  • Downtown Abbey gets Paul Giamatti and we get some obscure actor from Chili. Nina Gold has lost her touch, she’s not made a great casting decision since S2.

  • HalfWarg:
    Not trying to be cynical, but I strongly dislike this casting move. Besides the fact that casting a light-skinned Hispanic practically guts the visual distinction of the Dornish before they even get started, this guy’s work history is unimpressiveto say the least.

    He’s had minor and medium sized roles in a plethora of terrible shows on a handful of pathetic networks–and now he’s entrusted with one of the most charismatic roles in one of the most popular book series ever? Seriously? Did they walk into a USA Network casting office and grab the first guy they saw?

    Somehow I get the feeling that their casting process is a little more complex than looking at an actor’s filmography. Hasn’t Nina Gold earned a little trust?

  • Pau Soriano,

    Maybe it’s because I’m American, but I don’t see Latino as ‘white’. He isdifferent from the rest of the Westeros cast and that is what is important.

  • Not what I’d pictured, but the casting has been almost uniformly exquisite. D and D and the casting director have more than earned my trust.

  • Selmy,

    Why should i be happy? This site along with tons of people have been speculating on this for weeks and this is the best they could do. I don’t need a big star, but being an avid book reader, I don’t understand the pick. I’d like to be cautiously optimistic, but I just don’t see this guy as the Red Viper. I think this decision had more to do with $$ than being right for the part.

  • I’ve seen him in a few of those small parts. He’s pretty good actually. I think he’ll be just fine. Nice to see another continent get represented!

  • I don’t get how there’s so much negativity after all we’ve seen on the show. At this point we should all be understanding that they’re following the major plotlines from the books but taking alternate routes to get there, including alternate interpretations of characters. I have yet to finish a season of GoT and think “This show is starting to suck”.

    Faithfulness to the book =/= quality.
    Lack of word-for-word faithfulness =/= lack of quality.
    An actor who looks different from how you personally pictured a character =/= the wrong choice.
    An actor you’ve never heard of =/= no acting talent and/or a guy they signed because he came cheap.

  • On first glance I was screaming NOOOOOO, but this isn’t a good pic. I can see him pull off Red Viper perfectly. He’s got those big dark eyes and looks quite attractive in most of his other pics :)

  • Ours is the Fury:
    The ethnicity/skin color question and his acting past are two very different issues. I don’t think the fact that he was on a bunch of different shows over the years is a bad thing. A lot of people don’t become stars overnight. D&D could have cast anybody for this role and they chose Pascal, so he presumably had a very good audition.

    Now having an issue about the ethnicity or skin color is something else, and that I won’t debate, as I would like to see more diversity in general on the show. But having a Latino actor in a notable role is a good start.

    This. I whole-heartedly approve having a Latino actor here, one who appears particularly Ibero-Indo-American (I have no clue about Pascal’s ethnic mix, but it’s what he looks like to me). Since I’ve always pictured Dorne as somewhat Andalusian, it speaks well toward Nina Gold’s intent for the Dornish cast.

  • His skin is too pale. I’d prefer an actor who fitted better the “latino” stereotype. But I’m expecting great acting skills, at least.

  • Lex,

    Same here. And we all know Captain Malcolm Reynolds (or Captain Hammer) would be a great Red Viper ;-)

  • HalfWarg,

    Yeah, because you know, other actors with minor credits like Michelle Fairley, Jack Gleeson and Maisie Williams turned out so badly. Give the guy a chance.
    Also, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, terrible??? Arm yourself ser!

  • I love that he doesn’t look like a moor. Dorne should have racial diversity, Salty, Sandy and Stone Dornishmen, not only Sandy/Moor alike Dornish.

  • JR,

    Why would the show be skimping for money? They just killed off 4 main cast members, will kill off at least 4 more this coming season, and Oberyn only needs to last one season. Add that to the fact that the show is still growing in popularity, so their budget is likely increasing, so I don’t think they are making major casting decisions based on money…at all.

  • JR,

    What you think has little and less to do with it.
    I could say “I think he was cast because he sent D&D’s mother’s a lovely hamper of mini muffins.”

    The point is – you’ve seen one picture of the dude and you’ve made up your mind. Wait until you see him in the role on your television screen and then you can judge away.
    Nina Gold has earned our trust damn it!

  • Some of you people are ridiculous. Firstly, the Martells are light-skinned and olive-toned (which this guy is.) They’re not Naveen Andrews or darker. Secondly, all of a sudden a Latino doesn’t qualify as a POC? Chilean isn’t diverse *enough* for you? I wasn’t aware that diversity counted only when people are really dark-skinned.

    Thirdly, EVERY single other role has been cast perfectly and yet you all STILL think he will suck acting-wise, even when we weren’t there for his audition and have not one iota of a clue about how he played it. Obviously Nina, D&D, who are batting 1.000 as far as casting goes so far, saw it in him.

    Is it physically impossible for those of you who are complaining to have an open mind about anything? Can’t you at least use the “wait and see” approach that many others in here are mature enough to do? It’d probably be a lot easier and less stressful to get through life that way. Not to mention making it a lot less irritating in here.

  • I don’t get the obsession with casting names. ‘Downton Abbey gets Paul Giamatti!’ Downton Abbey has sucked for the last two seasons, names or not. GoT is a much more expensive show to make and there is a lot of talent out there. Makes more sense to spend their money on dragons and ships, and to not waste money on overpriced movie stars.

  • Al Swearengen,

    Yes, because Dianna Rigg was just aweful. Dan Hildebrand too. All I have to say is that people were pissed when Nicolaj was cast as Jaime. They were upset when Mark Addy was cast as Robert. They hated Stephen Dillane as Stannis. Michelle Fairley was too old to play Catelyn. Yada yada yada! How about you wait to see how he does in the role and in the setting? D&D said it was a difficult and exhaustive process searching for the right actor in this role. I think they did their hard work on this and feel they have the right guy.

  • Nina Gold isn’t a god she’s made some bad decisions when it comes to casting, Yara/Asha and Meera come to mind.

  • Also, please keep the conversation civil, people. No name-calling or personal attacks or your post will be deleted.

  • HURRAH FOR A MORE SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE PHOTO OF THE RED VIPER IN THE POST!! THREE CHEERS FOR WINTER!!

  • I dont care about his lack of acting credits, he just looks wrong. It’s only my opinion, but its mine and and I’ll keep it.
    I was expecting more Middle eastern or Indian, instead I got a white guy with dark eyes and hair. And he has no pointy-ness either.
    You cant tell me there are no decent middle eastern actors that aren’t well known. Or heck its not exactly a huge part, use a well known actor…
    But whatever. My ranting is not going to affect anything, I just needed to vent.

  • Cool! I see it.

    At first very quick glance I thought it was Corey Feldman…I almost shit myself.

  • Rhaelle:
    On first glance I was screaming NOOOOOO, but this isn’t a good pic. I can see him pull off Red Viper perfectly. He’s got those big dark eyes and looks quite attractive in most of his other pics :)

    Changed the pic to something more Red Viper-ish (and more attractive or so I’ve been told).

  • Ours is the Fury:
    I don’t get the obsession with casting names. ‘Downton Abbey gets Paul Giamatti!’ Downton Abbey has sucked for the last two seasons, names or not. GoT is a much more expensive show to make and there is a lot of talent out there. Makes more sense to spend their money on dragons and ships, and to not waste money on overpriced movie stars.

    Facts on facts on facts. People saying things like “Seazon 3 suxxxx” and “Nina Gold has lost her touch” are bananas. The producers know what they are doing. It’s not like they threw on an episode of Nikita and said “We found him!”. Multiple auditions. Probably consulted with GRRM himself. It’s not like they’re handing out these roles to anyone.

  • I can understand some people’s disappointment on one level.
    I ,like many people, was hoping the casting choice for such an awesome role would rock me ad excite me. This casting choice did not… even if I have no issues with it.

    I am not disappointed outside of that rationale though honestly.
    The actor has a good (not great) look for the role and can play a role with swagger from the few roles I have seen him play.

  • Yay the red viper! I was surprised cause I was expecting a big star or something to play him, but since I haven’t seen him in any of his previous roles I will have to wait and see and trust in Nina gold.
    He will hopefully be great (:

  • Al Swearengen,

    Well, that’s just, like, your opinion, man. I happen to love Gemma Whelan as Asha/Yara. But because she’s not a sex goddess that most fanboys picture every female character as, she is somehow ‘wrong’ for the role. Lena Headey has been great, but people still don’t like her because she’s “not hot enough” to play Cersei. When you make a statement like “Season 4 is now ruined” because of this casting news then I question your judgement.

  • Al Swearengen,

    He is a great actor. He was perfect as the Blackfish. (I’m not sure why the writer’s made him so angry at Edmure all the time though).

    And he was in Spaced! One of the best comedies of all time!

  • Latino ≠ white. People don’t have to look Moorish to be a POC. Again, it never says the Martells look Middle Eastern/Indian. Not Nina or D&D’s fault if you all couldn’t pick that up when you read.

  • I think Al Swearengen and JR are teenagers.

    The remind me of David Tennant fangirls who were so against the idea of ANYONE but their beloved David playing the Doctor that they immediately began to say that Matt Smith was a terrible choice WELL BEFORE they saw him in the role.

    We now know that Matt Smith is an awesome Doctor and if anything, has surpassed Tennant.

  • Wow, I have seen clips of this guy’s acting and it is generally low-key bad. I’d like to have some faith in this casting, but we’ll see.

  • Are there any clips where he speaks with an accent? In that Nikita clip he sounded American.

  • AA,

    The budget has increased but it’s still a very expensive show. There’s still a limit to how much they can spend. I’m sure the main stars like Peter dinklage will want raises soon too. Also, Cirian Hinds was barely in Season 3 and that’s mostly because of money. He’ll be featured more next year and as a result other new actors will have to come cheaper.

  • In Nina Gold we trust…

    All the racists hating on this guy for being “too white” can f**k off.

  • cozmeesah,

    He did an interview with a Spanish journalist last year where I believe he mentioned that Spain may be analogous to Dorne.

  • Lyanna_Targaryen:
    To fill the void between the end of the season and the beginning of casting and production news, I’ve been going way, way back in the archives and reading this site from the beginning (I’ve only been reading about a year). It is fascinating stuff.

    Each casting announcement had more than it’s fair share of hand wringing, teeth gnashing, and“NO ONE UNDERSTANDS!!!!!”. With nearly every single character (Tyrion and Tywin were almost universally accepted off the bat, but, I digress).

    And guess what? They all blew us away. I cannot imagine anyone but Emilia Clarke as Dany, Michelle Fairely as Catelyn, Mark Addy as Robert, etc. Not a single actor in the cast has disappointed me in their portrayal of their respective characters (except The Mountain #2 because CONAN).

    In Nina Gold I trust. In D&D I trust.

    Let the actor (and the makeup team, and the costume designers) show us what they can do before leaping to judgement.

    Dead on!!! There’s complaining on the board when they cast Kristian Nairn as Hodor!!! I mean, REALLY??!!?!?!? So yes — let’s all get ourselves all worried and then relax when he turns out – like every other decision with casting – to be awesome. (Again, Ciaran Hinds is a bit of a distinction b/c he was more of a “name.” But I like him just fine anyway.)

    He’ll be great. He’s got an interesting look. And I’m imagining he won’t look nearly so clean-cut when he finally graces the screen.

  • My reaction to this news is ambivalent.

    I was expecting Dornishmen to be non-white, Mediterranean-ish actors.

    Then again they *did* cast a Chilean actor, and he isn’t flagrantly blonde haired and blue eyed. He isn’t *that* different from the Oberyn we’ve seen depicted in artwork and such, maybe he’ll look better in costume.

  • cozmeesah,

    Exactly. When I read his description of the Dornish, they sounded VERY Mediterranean to me. I don’t understand why so many were under the totally false impression that they’re supposed to look East Indian, African, etc.

    What’s especially surprising is how many people wanted to see Oded Fehr (Arabic but looks competely white) or James Purefoy (Caucasian) and yet call this guy (who is Latino and looks it) “too white”.

  • Al Swearengen,

    Al Swearengen:
    Downtown Abbey gets Paul Giamatti and we get some obscure actor from Chili. Nina Gold has lost her touch, she’s not made a great casting decision since S2.

    Diana Rigg as Lady Olenna? Iwan Rheon as Ramsay Snow?

  • There were complaints about Kristian Nairn? What? He didn’t have the range to play Hodor?

  • Al Swearengen,

    Half the actors in Britain were in a soap at one point in there careers. It’s a great starting point, or a steady job. I don’t see the issue.
    Case in point, Ben Kingsley was on coronation street for one of his first roles.

  • Josh Parker:
    I don’t get how there’s so much negativity after all we’ve seen on the show. At this point we should all be understanding that they’re following the major plotlines from the books but taking alternate routes to get there, including alternate interpretations of characters. I have yet to finish a season of GoT and think “This show is starting to suck”.

    Faithfulness to the book =/= quality.
    Lack of word-for-word faithfulness =/= lack of quality.
    An actor who looks different from how you personally pictured a character =/= the wrong choice.
    An actor you’ve never heard of =/= no acting talent and/or a guy they signed because he came cheap.

    THIS. After 3 seasons of putting together a murderer’s row in terms of casting, doing some amazing adaptation, inventing great scenes, doing everything to make this show the biggest in HBO history other than, y’know, The Sopranos, these folks deserve a little bit of the benefit of the doubt.

  • Josh Parker,

    Not a teenager and certainly would never watch Dr. Who. Im am American and we have plenty of great options here like Justified & Breaking Bad instead of watching a silly show like Dr. Who. I’ve watched Deadwood, the Wire, & the Sopranos and I guess I have a much higher bar than you.

  • I’ve never seen him in anything before, but going on looks alone, I can see it. Add a wig or maybe his hair is already longer and I think its a good fit.

  • Whoa…

    Anyhow. I’m looking at him, and getting used to it. He’s actually not a bad look for The Red Viper at all, although it looks like they’re going for a ‘Spanish’ look rather than the ‘Middle Eastern’ one I pictured. But maybe not – just because the actor is Chilean doesn’t mean he couldn’t play a few different races, actually. So the final verdict on Nina Gold’s opinion of the race of the Martells…inconclusive. I think we’ll have to wait another year to see the casting of Prince Doran, Arianne, the Sand Snakes, etc, to see if they were listening to our calls for more color in the cast.

    And whatever race they go for, I have confidence that this guy will make a fantastic Red Viper.

  • SerCountryFriedSteak: In Nina We Trust: *cough* Sibel Kekilli *cough* *Kit Harrington* *cough* *poor kid who played the Stable Boy*

    :)

    Careful, complaining about Sibel usually leads to a bunch of hysterical posters saying how she won some awards in Germany. Not that it’s relevant to how atrocious she is on GoT, obviously.

  • OMFG TOO WHITE!11!

    More seriously: OMFG TOO YOUNG!

    That was actually the thing that threw me even more. He looks like a baby to me. That it’s not a big name doesn’t surprose me at all. Since this is HBO I think a m/m scene might be in Oberyns future and I guess not many big names would go for that still, unfortunately.

  • Macha:
    I predict good casting. I also predict Danny Trejo as Doran. Calling it now.;-)

    Funnily enough, I was thinking of Trejo for Areo. Edward James Olmos for Doran, perhaps?

  • ebevan91:
    Hodor

    Ok now that I’ve gotten that out of the way, I checked the guy’s resume on IMDB. He’s been in a lot of stuff.

    Graceland
    Red Widow
    Nikita
    The Sixth Gun
    CSI: Crime Scene Investigation
    Body of Proof
    Charlie’s Angels (the new one)
    Law and Order SVU
    Burn Notice
    The Good Wife
    Law and Order: Criminal Intent
    Law and Order
    Without a Trace
    NYPD Blue
    Buffy the Vampire Slayer

    Wait… Buffy? I don’t remember him

  • Ben:
    Al Swearengen,

    Diana Rigg as Lady Olenna? Iwan Rheon as Ramsay Snow?

    I’ll keep going. Dan Hildebrand as Kraznys? Kerry Ingram as Shireen? (OMG she’s so adorable). The two ‘schmuck with earflap’ guys they cast as Black Walder and Lame Lothar? Mackensie Crook as Orell?

  • In the Entertainment Weekly pic I can totally see Oberyn in him, in the one posted here not so much. Right now he has the benefit of the doubt, and who knows, maybe he turns out awesome.

  • Ours is the Fury:
    He’s Latino, which I think is how many people interpreted the Martells. I don’t think painting him darker would be wise. He looks fine the way he is. I’ll check him out a bit more but I’m optimistic. They don’t need a big expensive name for Oberyn.

    Lol again with the latino thing….a Latino is a mix of white european with central/south american aborigen, dornishmen are a mix of white european and moor/arabic/bereber, maybe indian, but never american…

    Spanish people are NOT latinos, speaking spanish doesn’t make you latino ;)

    He looks like a dornishman though, but of the “spanish” looking ones…they couldn’t have gone with a “whiter” look…Natalia or Oona look more the part ;)

  • DocFilth: Funnily enough, I was thinking of Trejo for Areo. Edward James Olmos for Doran, perhaps?

    Edward James Olmos would make a fantastic Doran. Isn’t Areo Hotah quite white?

  • From the Vimeo link posted which shows off Pedro Pascal’s acting abilities, I’m worried that Oberyn may come off as too feminine. The Red Viper character definitely plays with gender norms, with his sexuality and his education of the Sand Snakes, but there was never a doubt in my mind that he was very blatantly masculine, even to the point of showing off his masculinity. The video at http://vimeo.com/18945174 depicts a very feminine-sounding and -acting character, and while I am not sure of the source he was reading from, it makes me worried that Oberyn’s character may be taken in a different direction.

  • Can’t judge the guy till i see him in the entire Oberyn Martell Get up. Had my hopes on Amr Waked but we shall see. I have to put my trust in the showrunners that he will be a great Red Viper, i hope so.

  • Maybe they could cast Barbara Mori now as one of the sand snakes or as Arianne or even ellaria

  • I saw him in the Burn Notice: Sam Axe TV movie. He was the bad guy but, before his intentions were revealed he did get to show off some range. I think this guy can do the role well, after seeing burn notice I am assured that the mountain vs the viper is gonna be kick ass.

  • Tyrion Pimpslap,

    There are a lot of white latin@s, though, especially in South America. And this guy is definitely white, or at the very least, he’s a white-passing person of color.

  • I saw him in a couple episodes of Graceland… I didn’t think anything negative about him, but I don’t know, he just feels wrong to me. I remember someone a while back mentioned Naveen Andrews as a hypothetical possibility, and I can’t help but think that he would be a stronger choice than an LA-based actor like Pedro.

    Then again, Nina Gold hasn’t let us down so far, so I’m going to put this one firmly in the “wait and see” category.

  • I’m I the only one who read this?

    BENIOFF: “And for us what is most enticing about this series, is, if we’re lucky enough to get to the end, there will be 80 hours of screen time with a beginning, middle, and a real end. Not something that feels like 80 separate episodes, but instead something where, if you were masochistic enough, you could go into a theater and watch a marathon of the whole thing.”

    80 hours of screen time? Does that mean they plan 8 seasons… def seems like it.
    The quote is from this interview: http://www.deadline.com/2013/06/emmy-q-a-with-game-of-thrones-david-benioff-and-d-b-weiss/

  • Pau Soriano,

    Dornishmen are Dornishmen. There is no one-to-one real world comparison for ASOIAF cultures, as GRRM has said many times. So say what you will, but many readers did envision the Martells as what we call Latino and as cast with Latino actors. And the role has now been cast with a Latino actor. And I’m well aware that speaking Spanish doesn’t make someone Latino. So spare me your condescending lols and lectures.

  • Cary Storm,

    He is, but so was Salladhor Saan in the books, so I don’t think they mind what they do with the ethnicity of Free Cities natives. Plus, if you’re casting “Badass bodyguard to a Latino-type leader”, wouldn’t Danny Trejo be top of the list?

  • Based on the picture, I was expecting more excitement to be honest, not all this he’s-not-like-I-pictured-him BS…

    Personally, my first thought was that I can totally see the deadly charisma of the Viper in the picture at the top. A second thought was that he looks a bit younger than I expected, but having watched the first three seasons, I am not at all worried since D&D and Nina Gold have proven time and time again to pick great actors for each role. Really people, try to be a bit more enthusiastic, I’m sure one year from now we’ll all be saying what a great casting that was!

  • haltwhogoesthere: There are people who are entirely different when they slip into character. I will reserve judgement. Honestly if I’d seen half of the cast before I saw them playing their characters, I would have thought they looked terrible for the part. Weren’t there people who thought Robert would be bad? I didn’t watch the show at that time, so I don’t know.But his personality was spot on. And the casting has been solid in this show, so I will trust them.

    I guess they can make him sit in a tanning bed for a few weeks. That way he will be brown as nut. I also trust their pick 100%. I just wanted some more wolfish looking and not so soft in the face.

    At least we know that the Viper is in. That alone makes it all worth it!

    BTW, I never had a doubt about Mark Addy. I always thought he was good pick.

  • Has anyone found a good video of his acting? I’m “sure” that his acting is great, but is it okay if I see some great acting rather than this stuff we’ve seen so far.

    And it reads everywhere “Chilean actor” but his IMDB page looks like nothing but American productions. Are we sure this guy wasn’t born in Indianapolis?

    Nothing against him, he might be the best Red Viper ever… but I guess I’m in wait & see mode. If that’s okay with the “Everything is Awesome, how dare you question it” crowd :)

  • The comments in this thread are all I expected and more…

    Add “I don’t know who this guy is so he must suck” to the list of classic reactions. I forgot about that one.

    I would have assumed by this point that as soon as we see a relatively unknown actor cast in a semi-major role, that we’d be able to make the leap to “next breakout star on the show” since that’s what’s happened in almost every instance of casting on GoT. Guess some people still like to have selective memory and be proven wrong in due course.

  • SuperMax,

    That video appears to be 2 years old and not exactly related to Game of Thrones. Good lord, the handwringing.

  • outdoorcats:
    Whoa…

    Anyhow. I’m looking at him, and getting used to it. He’s actually not a bad look for The Red Viper at all, although it looks like they’re going for a ‘Spanish’ look rather than the ‘Middle Eastern’ one I pictured. But maybe not – just because the actor is Chilean doesn’t mean he couldn’t play a few different races, actually. So the final verdict on Nina Gold’s opinion of the race of the Martells…inconclusive. I think we’ll have to wait another year to see the casting of Prince Doran, Arianne, the Sand Snakes, etc, to see if they were listening to our calls for more color in the cast.

    And whatever race they go for, I have confidence that this guy will make a fantastic Red Viper.

    Don’t know what people were expecting. The Martells and Dorne were always equivalent to the Spanish when under Moorish rule. I expected them to look Spanish with a slight tan.

  • What’s especially surprising is how many people wanted to see Oded Fehr (Arabic but looks competely white) or James Purefoy (Caucasian) and yet call this guy (who is Latino and looks it) “too white”.

    Oded Fehr is actually Israeli, not Arab, and he is of German and Dutch Jewish descent, so yes, totally white, not in the least bit a person of color (and by the way, given all the invasions of the Middle East, neither would everyone who is Arab pass this requirement of not looking “too white” – I have a Palestinian friend who is blonde haired and blue-eyed.)

    I think I am in the absolute minority in fandom in thinking Oberyn is a bit of an ass anyway (like seriously, dude, make sure the guy you kill is really dead and THEN do the taunting and I am far more interested in who they cast for Doran – and think they should save their money for a character who will last more than a few episodes in one season.)

    And I cannot help but be reminded of the outcry when NCW was cast as Jaime (e.g. one comment from back then: “Most worried about NCW as Jaime. I don’t think he is all that good as an actor, seems to have a touch of death for shows and doesnt look like my head Jaime thanks to that nose, which is bad of me and all that, but meh.”) Heh! I think we can safely say that casting was a win for the show, eh?

  • Clearly people are over-thinking things. How ’bout you just watch the show, if the actor does well in his or her role, then awesome! When I watch it, I’m not humming on saying “Oh well, this person should be black, and this person should be etc..” All these choices I’d imagine have to get at least some input from GRRM. So.. what does that tell you? Too many people hung up on trivial details, or just plain want to nit pick about everything..

  • I’m happy with the choice, I imagine he will look fantastic in costume. Westeros is obviously very much like Europe, and I imagined Dorne being something like Spain with the mix of cultures that have influenced it, so yeah, very pleased here.

  • Ok, the new pic they has posted a the top of the article makes the dude look WAY more like the Red Viper in my head. He does brown up nicely. MORE BROWN PLEASE.

  • How tall is he?

    That pic doesn’t exactly scream the Viper to me, but going off one publicity photo is the dumbest thing to do.

    I’ve just been hoping this whole time they don’t go for standard British looking dudes like 99% of the rest of the cast. First test, passed.

  • DocFilth:
    Cary Storm,

    He is, but so was Salladhor Saan in the books, so I don’t think they mind what they do with the ethnicity of Free Cities natives. Plus, if you’re casting “Badass bodyguard to a Latino-type leader”, wouldn’t Danny Trejo be top of the list?

    Well, let’s just put Idris Elba in Areo Hotah’s role :-P

  • Lex: LOL! This debate is getting stupider by the second.

    So he is a WPOC. A “white person of color”. ;)

  • Just had a thought.

    GRRM mentioned he thought Janina Gavankar from True Blood was exactly how he pictured Arianne Martel.

    Her character left True Blood this season, so Im wondering if she’ll be cast?

    She has HBO pedigree, the looks, and is conveniently available.

    Wonder if more Dornish show up in S4

  • Cary Storm: Well, let’s just put Idris Elba in Areo Hotah’s role :-P

    Great idea but it would cost too much cash for HBO to pony up. But I would be down for that in one billionth of a second.

  • Bowl Of Brown Chef:
    Just had a thought.

    GRRM mentioned he thought Janina Gavankar from True Blood was exactly how he pictured Arianne Martel.

    Her character left True Blood this season, so Im wondering if she’ll be cast?

    She has HBO pedigree, the looks, and is conveniently available.

    Wonder if more Dornish show up in S4

    OH HELLS YES!!!! O_O Please let that be true.

  • I’m not familiar with him or his work, so I can’t comment on how well he’ll perform the role. I trust Nina Gold, Benioff & Weiss, and others, who have done a stellar job on casting so far, even when I doubted them before.

    However, the showrunners are missing an opportunity to introduce a new culture here. I would strongly have preferred that they go with South Indian, or North African/Middle Eastern actors and actresses for the Dornish. I would at least like to hear some plausible explanation for why this was logistically too difficult or something. The show is painfully white, with minorities disproportionately represented as villainous or savage. I was just apologizing for and rationalizing this to someone the other day and now I want to take it back.

  • Josh Parker,

    I really think there’s no call to call someone a “teenager” (and I’m not sure the point behind that anyway, since teenagers can be very good participants anyway). Someone is upset that the casting choice of one of their favorite characters is completely different than they expected. They reacted. There’s no call for the awful pile-on that’s going on here.

  • Now see what you have done fandom. You scared the Cogman.

    (probably not much though)

    (ETA: When I made the baby joke, I meant baby as in probably my age i.e. born in/around 1976)

  • darquemode,

    If I had to guess, I would say he is in his late thirties, possibly early 40’s. I know he looks younger, but I think he can pass as 40, which is old enough to have adult children.

  • I think he is perfect! I don’t know why the incessant bitching on these GoT forums still surprise me. I’m excited for season 4!

  • He also seems to be more American than Chilean, which means he is only the 3rd American actor on the show. I’m really interested on what accent the show will have him use. Will he sound more British or will they give him and the Martells/Dornish Spanish accents?

  • A lot of fanboy feelings on the TV adaption as a whole are gonna be decided based on how this plays out. No pressure, Pedro.

  • Tyrion Pimpslap,

    That’s what I am guessing too, but I he no idea. Some people look so much younger or older than they are.

    Oberyn in the books is like 42 if I recall. I expected them to cast an actor in mid to late 40s since they age most roles up.

    I’m curious, not critical tough honestly.

  • Is ANYONE surprised at this embarrassing reaction? Not me. My first hint was the 500+ comments in the “Importance of Dorne” thread. No matter how the Dornish are cast, this was guaranteed to be a shit show. This is only the beginning.

  • Gonfaloniere: I think I am in the absolute minority in fandom in thinking Oberyn is a bit of an ass anyway

    Oh thank you, I though I was the only one. He is a total asshole that Dornish Prince, badass or not. How he treated that whore who bore him his first (?) Sandsanke. Boooo!

  • I am just disappointed I expected a more bold casting choice than this. The Red Viper is my favorite character in the whole series so I was bound to be disappointed with their choice but this really wasn’t what I pictured at all, he’s much younger and not as handsome as I thought the character would be.

    Oded Fehr was my choice but I knew there was a slim chance they’d consider him. I would have been fine with Alexander Siddig though.

    We’ll see I’ll try to give him a chance but between Pedro and Ian Whyte I doubt that special moment from ASOS is going to live up to my expectations.

  • Tyrion Pimpslap,

    We think alike I guess… I was wondering that too!

    I have seen him in 7-9 roles I guess and never heard a British accent that I recall. Of course that does not mean he is incapable of doing a good British accent! It would be interesting if they cast North/ Central/ South Americans for Dornishmen.
    My guess is it just a one off, but we will see.

  • B Cogman,

    Another apology on behalf of the knee jerks, Mr. Cogman. I’m seriously thinking of having my next embroidery project being a small framed sampler piece that reads “Don’t read the comments”.

  • I do not doubt that this guy could pull off an Oberyn…

    The real question is will the writers drop the ball w/ his character, or almagamate him w/ characters they had to cut? Like they have w/ Mance and Thoros respectively…

    I for one will sorely miss the scene where Tyrion and Pod greet the Dornish retinue if it is cut. The back and forth between Oberyn and Tyrion is amazing and gives some great exposition on Tyrion’s birth.

  • “Slap” a beard on him to age him up, put him in some conquistador-ish armor and boom Red Viper.

  • Nick:
    However, the showrunners are missing an opportunity to introduce a new culture here. I would strongly have preferred that they go with South Indian, or North African/Middle Eastern actors and actresses for the Dornish. I would at least like to hear some plausible explanation for why this was logistically too difficult or something. The show is painfully white, with minorities disproportionately represented as villainous or savage. I was just apologizing for and rationalizing this to someone the other day and now I want to take it back.

    “New culture?” I’m sorry, I seem to have missed all the other Latin/Hispanic-inspired cultures on Game of Thrones. Please point them out to us.

  • Skimming through the comments until suddenly B Cogman says “Wow” and Lex apologises behalf the fandom…. ok, imma gonna skip all the comments.

    Just saying that I think he looks good and I approve, even though I have never seen or noticed him anywhere. In Gold we trust.

  • For the record, I love this choice. I’m totally voting for Pedro.

    Time to start the “Please cast Edward James Olmos as Prince Doran Martell” groundwork!

    (I’m totally curious what accent they’ll have him use. Standard Hollywood Hispanic? Something with a slightly British lilt? We shall see!)

  • I’m satisfied with his looks. I haven’t seen him in anything so I can’t comment on his acting, but I trust D&D and Nina so I’m sure he’ll be great. I’m actually glad they chose an unknown actor for this role.
    “The boys love him, the girls love him, and he loves them all back. ” This makes me really happy!

  • Fire And Blood: “New culture?” I’m sorry, I seem to have missed all the other Latin/Hispanic cultures on Game of Thrones. Please point them out to us.

    Exactly. We’ve already seen some Arabic/Middle Eastern actors across the Narrow Sea. I don’t care much either way about the whole ethnicity debate, but I think a hispanic Dorne is a great choice.

  • Casting has been mostly amazing great choices for guys like Littlefinger, The Spider and the Hound but theyve had more than a few misses. Yara , Mance and Daario were preety bad , no charisma at all so im a bit worried about this Viper since he has some amazing scenes aheah of him but im rooting for him! A good Viper is crucial for a strong season 4.

  • B Cogman: Wow.

    Awww come on, Cogman, this comment thread isn’t that bad. Very much looking forward to seeing how Dorne is presented, as far as accent, culture and costuming.

    (I am very amused btw that Eddie from that episode of Buffy is the Red Viper of Dorne.)

  • Casting has been mostly amazing great choices for guys like Littlefinger, The Spider and the Hound but they had more than a few misses. Yara , Mance and Daario were preety bad , no charisma at all so im a bit worried about this Viper since he has some amazing scenes aheah of him but im rooting for him! A good Viper is crucial for a strong season 4.

  • Cary Storm,
    Agree completely with your statement. Well-said.

    I think that he has a great look in the photo above – maybe a bit younger than I imagined but that’s unimportant. This is a much better than the one on the EW site; perhaps that’s what is generating so much of the negative response.

    I don’t think that the actor playing the Red Viper had to be a big star. It seems to be a perfect role for a lesser-known actor. And since I’m not familar with his roles, I look forward to seeing what he will do. I trust Nina Gold because I think that the casting choices have been close to perfect.

    Ser Endrew Tarth: I for one will sorely miss the scene where Tyrion and Pod greet the Dornish retinue if it is cut. The back and forth between Oberyn and Tyrion is amazing and gives some great exposition on Tyrion’s birth.

    This is one of my favorite scenes in the books. I hope it stays in. Let’s not assume the worst.

  • I hope all you people complaining just stop watching the show and commenting on here all together. You guys are annoying. Always wanting everything to be EXACTLY like you want it to be.

    I think he looks the part and I’m sure he’ll do great.

  • :) Good casting. I’m glad the crew wasn’t concerned about casting a lighter skinned actor. As long as as he performs, it will be an excellent casting choice

  • I always pictured the people from Dorne as similar to the current inhabitants of the Iberian Peninsula; people of differing skin colors, having been descended from many different cultures throughout history. That said, I also pictured the Red Viper as being darker skinned and older in appearance than how the actor looks in the photo. I’ll wait until the show airs, though, before I judge how well the role was cast. Sometimes the show’s castings wildly vary from how the characters look in my minds eye, but the skills of the actors overcome my doubts.

  • Al Swearengen,

    The big problem for me with Oded Fehr is that I know exactly what I’ll get from him, just a slight twist on his character from the Mummy films. Granted, I could have said the same thing for Sean Bean as Ned. However, what I like about Pedro Pascal is that I don’t know how he will bring Oberyn to the screen and that makes it something to look forward to, and anticipation is fun.

    It’s a bit of a shame that the production didn’t snatch at the opportunity to add some diversity to its overwhelmingly white central cast but given what we know about the Martells and the Dornish in general, casting a latino actor for Oberyn does not preclude casting actors of other ethnic backgrounds for the remaining roles.

    Let’s see where this goes. Mark Addy and Natalie Dormer looked a bit left-field and worked out well and personally, I never thought Liam Cunningham could bring so much out of Davos. I have seen his work before and knew he was a good actor but he’s took a character that I didn’t really care about in the books and made him into the character that I most root for in the show.

    Good luck to Pascal, he’s landed one of the more memorable roles in the series.

  • Off topic, but that new Deadline interview released today with D&D almost cements that they are going for 8 seasons of the show. Pretty interesting.

    Benoiff: “And for us what is most enticing about this series is, if we’re lucky enough to get to the end, there will be 80 hours of screen time with a beginning, middle, and a real end. Not something that feels like 80 separate episodes, but instead something where, if you were masochistic enough, you could go into a theater and watch a marathon of the whole thing.”

    Source: http://www.deadline.com/2013/06/emmy-q-a-with-game-of-thrones-david-benioff-and-d-b-weiss/

  • Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Abou 14 minutes into Episode 2 of Graceland when his character Juan Badillo is introduced he has a Spanish accent when he introduces himself and says “Call me Juan.”

    After that there is no hint of the accent though. XD

  • It’s like you people haven’t learned the lesson: let the actor perform and then criticize him , or praise him if he deserves it! It’s sad really.

    I’m actually happy they are going international: mix the British and the Irish with a Dane, a Dutch, a couple of Germans, some Americans, and now a Chilean. So happy! Keep them coming!

    I can’t wait to see him as the Red Viper and I’m so relieved that this part has been cast. Go Pedro! In Nina Gold We Trust!

    Edt: and yes! I totally knew they were going Hispanic, partially because GRRm said Dorne was based on Spain.

  • Looks like they are going Hispanic with the dornish, I always imagined them being Arabic. I like the choice though.

  • Kingslayer,

    People are allowed to disagree with the decision, if everyone agreed life would be pretty dull. I can be dramatic and over the top with my comments but it’s only because I love the show and books, I am very passionate when it comes to decisions about the show.

  • Very curious to see how he does. Though I’m sure he will be great, the cast of GOT has been absolutely fantastic so far.

  • Ours is the Fury: Awww come on, Cogman, this comment thread isn’t that bad. Very much looking forward to seeing how Dorne is presented, as far as accent, culture and costuming.

    (I am very amused btw that Eddie from that episode of Buffy is the Red Viper of Dorne.)

    I beg to differ, the thread IS awful.

  • JR,

    There are a hellalot of Deadwood, The Wire, Sopranos, Breaking Bad, and Justified fans out there who think Game of Thrones is silly and that your bar isn’t nearly high enough. Doesn’t mean they are right anymore than you are right about Dr. Who. What does your opinion of Dr. Who have to do with anything? Why bash other shows in defense of your opinions about this casting choice?

  • I get the “not a famous actor” rage. Yeah, he’s a big important and popular character for many of us.

    I get the “he’s too young” rage. Because the character has got several grown daughters, what does this mean for them?

    I don’t at all get the “he’s too white” rage. I’m as anti-whitewashing as anyone, so yes, I’m one of the first to get mad when someone nonwhite gets cast by a white person. But I’m delighted there’s a Latino actor here regardless of his “white-passes” ness. And looking at the picture that WiC replaced, it looks like he actually “passes as brown” pretty easily.

  • Al Swearengen:
    Kingslayer,

    People are allowed to disagree with the decision, if everyone agreed life would be pretty dull. I can be dramatic and over the top with my comments but it’s only because I love the show and books, I am very passionate when it comes to decisions about the show.

    Your recent posts have been borderline trolling, so don’t be surprised by the reaction they get.

  • Al Swearengen:
    Downtown Abbey gets Paul Giamatti and we get some obscure actor from Chili. Nina Gold has lost her touch, she’s not made a great casting decision since S2.

    *Chile

    If you’re going to denigrate the guy for his nationality, at least spell it right.

  • Yes! I was hoping for a sexy Latino actor like Diego Luna. Pedro is exactly what I imagined. Very happy!

  • Jake Umber:
    Off topic, but that new Deadline interview released today with D&D almost cements that they are going for 8 seasons of the show. Pretty interesting.

    Benoiff: “And for us what is most enticing about this series is, if we’re lucky enough to get to the end, there will be 80 hours of screen time with a beginning, middle, and a real end. Not something that feels like 80 separate episodes, but instead something where, if you were masochistic enough, you could go into a theater and watch a marathon of the whole thing.”

    Source:http://www.deadline.com/2013/06/emmy-q-a-with-game-of-thrones-david-benioff-and-d-b-weiss/

    I’m disappointed. I wanted them to do 10 seasons. If they end it in 8 seasons it’s almost certain they are going to finish the story before the books, and they’ll probably have to cut a lot of material to end it in 8 seasons.

  • Bard,

    People are allowed to have differing opinions. It’s not the end of the world if someone likes an actor’s face and someone doesn’t, or if someone thinks one ethnicity is more ideal for the part than another. Debating casting is fun. If we all agreed all the time that would be pretty boring. As long as they are civil, there’s no problem. If there are personal attacks, the post will get deleted. If you don’t like to read disagreements about casting, just don’t read comments at all. But so far this has been very mild compared to past posts where people where very unhappy, especially when it came to female roles. People were very nasty indeed about appearances then.

  • He seems really fine to me! My only concern is … if he looks that young – how are the Sand Snakes gonna be portrayed? Do you think they’re gonna make them younger? Cause frankly, Pedro looks a bit young to have a nearly 30-year-old daugther.

  • Al Swearengen:
    Lex,

    How am I trolling ? I’ve been posting on this site for a good couple years.

    Saying ridiculous things like your first 3 posts in this thread = trolling.

    To me, it seemed like you were intentionally looking for a reaction. (EDITED: After 3 posts, you seemed a bit more reasonable).

  • Lex: Saying ridiculous things like your first 5 or 10 posts in this thread = trolling.

    Lex, I’d hardly call it trolling. Knowing Al, it was more being overly dramatic. Trolling is intentionally inciting conflict to get a negative reaction. He was reacting, not trying to get a reaction.

  • Was not sure why the young looking-ness bothered me so much but then it hit me that he looks most definitely way younger than Dinklage, which … doesn’t make much sense book-wise. But we’ll see what make-up can do.

  • mariamb18,

    I know I hate to be negative, but I keep scratching my head when certain scenes/lines are not included (ie Robb being greeted outside the twin w/ greywind animosity; Mance not telling Jon of his trip to WF, or being a bard, or how he united the clans w/ his own strength, or anything cool really lol). I could see them altering this meeting somehow b/c there’s too many horses and extras… here’s hoping the dialogue at least remains in tact. I would miss Pod identifying the banners though.

  • Lex,

    Eh sure I went a little OTT but I certainly wasn’t trolling. If you think that’s bordeline trolling you clearly haven’t been to a lot of forums.

    Seriously check out the GOT IMDB forum and then you’ll see what trolls are like ;-p

  • Looking at his pictures on IMDB, his looks are within the range of how I pictured him when I read the books. There is one picture in which he is displaying a very confident/cocky smile, which I think is dead on Red Viperish. From the comments of D&D in the EW article, it appears he will be bisexual like he is in the books I am glad they are not changing that aspect of his character.

  • Cary Storm,

    I mean those people who go bananas on an actor based on some pictures, without giving him a chance to show his talent. And those people who besiege an actor in the beginning, and then praise him with tears in their eyes in the Curtain Calls and exclaim that he’s the best possible ‘whatever character’, and swear on Jesus that they knew he was going to be perfect for the role. Those people.

    Edit: :P oh, you were sarcastic. :))

  • Sooooooooooo glad they didn’t go with a British actor. Goes to show that Dorne will have a geographical and ethic difference from the rest of Westeros, as well it should.

  • Eos,

    I was wondering about the age myself. I think it’s not too much of an issue if they simply have the Sand Snakes (assuming some of them appear, and I’m sure not all of them will) be younger than they are in the books. I think Pascal must be near Oberyn’s book age, but he looks younger. But he could have a daughter that is twentyish, old enough to be a presence the way Tyene/Nym/Obara are. The ages can be worked around.

  • Ser Endrew Tarth,

    This is the curse of being a book-reader. We have favorite scenes. Or we imagine scenes and/or characters in a particular way. Then, when they are translated to TV and are different, we are disappointed. Its an evil cycle.

    I love Oberyn. I hope this scene isn’t altered – his grand entrance with his bannermen, his dialogue with Tyrion. But I’ve been disappointed before and it hasn’t lessened my love for this show.

  • This quote from D&D gives me confidence:

    “We found a fellow who can handle the job description and make it seem effortless. He wasn’t easy to find and he won’t be easy to stop.”

  • Tyrion Pimpslap:
    This quote from D&D gives me confidence:

    “We found a fellow who can handle the job description and make it seem effortless. He wasn’t easy to find and he won’t be easy to stop.”

    Exactly. That statement tells me that they are well-aware that this was a tough role to fill.

  • Visually different from rest of Westeros – check.

    Optimistic so far!

    Now I’m keen to hear what accent he uses.

  • VARGOAT:
    give me ron perlman as aero hotah and i´ll die happy

    Why would they cast such a famous actor for one of the most useless characters in the books? Areo Hotah doesn’t need to be more than a featured extra.

  • zambi76:
    Was not sure why the young looking-ness bothered me so much but then it hit me that he looks most definitely way younger than Dinklage, which … doesn’t make much sense book-wise. But we’ll see what make-up can do.

    Considering Dinklage is older than Nicolaj Coster-Waldau and Lena Headey, I don’t see the problem. It’s fantasy. Make believe Dinklage is younger.

  • mariamb18:
    Ser Endrew Tarth,

    This is the curse of being a book-reader. We have favorite scenes. Or we imagine scenes and/or characters in a particular way. Then, when they are translated to TV and are different, we are disappointed. Its an evil cycle.

    I love Oberyn. I hope this scene isn’t altered – his grand entrance with his bannermen, his dialogue with Tyrion. But I’ve been disappointed before and it hasn’t lessened my love for this show.

    Yeah, I love his intro in the books – not for all the Dornish bannermen, but for his initial dialogue with Tyrion and his story of how baby Tyrion was so disappointing to he and his sister Elia.

  • Josh Parker:
    I think Al Swearengen and JR are teenagers.

    The remind me of David Tennant fangirls who were so against the idea of ANYONE but their beloved David playing the Doctor that they immediately began to say that Matt Smith was a terrible choice WELL BEFORE they saw him in the role.

    We now know that Matt Smith is an awesome Doctor and if anything, has surpassed Tennant.

    This!!

  • VARGOAT:
    give me ron perlman as aero hotah and i´ll die happy

    Great idea but he currently campaigning hard for Hellboy 3 to be made.

  • Tyrion Pimpslap: Considering Dinklage is older than Nicolaj Coster-Waldau and Lena Headey, I don’t see the problem. It’s fantasy. Make believe Dinklage is younger.

    You are on a roll today with these comments..”make believe Dinkalge is younger.” :)

  • Yeah anyone who disagrees with this decision is either a troll or an teenager and they should leave this site because all decisions regarding the show are perfect…..

  • Aemon,

    I am completely unfamiliar with this actor and his work too. I am anxious to see how he plays the Red Viper, one of the characters that I have been looking forward to.
    He kind of reminds me of Eric Bana (always a good reminder in my book!)

  • What the hell HBO or whoever decided this? I thought the Martells were dark-skinned like some African-Americans. Well, I shouldn’t be surprised of this white washing but I just had my hopes up.

  • It’s kind of embarrassing what’s happening on Tumblr right now. I just joined that place a couple of weeks ago and I’m already disgusted by what I’ve seen. They’re actually attacking the actor there, like it’s his fault that he was offered a freaking job.

    I was expecting someone slightly darker, too, but I’m not disappointed or anything. I’m sure he’ll do a great job. In Nina We Trust and all that :)

  • Adam Whitehead,

    they’re killing off a number of characters earlier than in the books.

    Let’s not start this again. It’s not even clear from their quotes whether that refers to future or past seasons. Or, we can start a yearlong fanwank over WHO WILL DIE EARLIER like the ones that led to the shocking deaths of Mago, Marillion, and Xaro.

  • For all those wondering about Pascal’s age – I saw on one of the IMDb entries that his year of birth is 1968 – so he’s 45.

    I saw the Vimeo and really did chuckle at the posters here who mentioned Nathan Fillion. That’s exactly what I thought.

    Let’s just wait and see how it turns out.

  • Haven’t seen the actor in anything, and he isn’t exactly how I envisioned him, but I’ve yet to be disappointed by Nina Gold, D&D, and whoever else helps with the casting process. Looking forward to seeing some footage (though that’s likely a looong way off), especially so we can see how they decide to interpret the Dornish through their costuming, and so I can hear the actor use the accent he plans on using for the role.

  • As for the complaints.. let’s just remember how much people criticized Mark Addy, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Jack Gleeson, Jerome Flynn and Michelle Fairley when they were first announced.

  • babar,

    The only casting prior to this that I complained about was Gemma Whelan and Ellie Kendrick. Nothing from S2 and S3 has changed my mind.

  • OMG OMG!!! I’m Chilean and i don’t know him.
    This is my favourite character.
    I’m glad is someone we don’t know and wasn’t one of the options for this character.
    I’m hopeful.

  • The only thing I’ve seen him in is Buffy so I can’t judge his acting that well. You can be sure that D&D and Nina Gold know Oberyn is a fan favorite so I doubt they randomly cast him because he is cheaper than a big name actor. It probably would have been easiest to cast a London based actor so the fact that they went with an American could indicate that he was by far the best person they saw. It doesn’t matter that he’s not that well known. Many talented actors get their big break late. Some never get one. Also, you have to take into account the underrepresentation of Latinos in T.V. and movies. Often Latino’s are just cast in one dimensional drug cartel roles.
    Some of the race comments are bordering on offensive. All the “not Latin and/or dark enough” stuff is just nauseating. Would you tell him to his face that he’s too light to be a real Latino? If not, you probably shouldn’t say it on the internet either.
    It’s great news that they are keeping him bi. I was a bit more concerned with that than exact skin tone.

  • Lady of Highgarden:
    It’s kind of embarrassing what’s happening on Tumblr right now. I just joined that place a couple of weeks ago and I’m already disgusted by what I’ve seen. They’re actually attacking the actor there, like it’s his fault that he was offered a freaking job.

    I was expecting someone slightly darker, too, but I’m not disappointed or anything. I’m sure he’ll do a great job. In Nina We Trust and all that :)

    I was going to write some long thing in response to this but instead I’ll just summarize; tumblr is shit unless you want funny pictures of cats.

  • I’ve been hoping they would cast someone from the Buffyverse!

    “why don’t you let dead Eddie get your dinner?’

    How about a big dog on a spear? A Mountain kabob!

  • If Naveen Andrews would have been cast the only thing I would have been looking forward to is him getting his skull caved in.

  • I think he has the right look for the role (I always pictured the Dornish to be more Spanish anyways) but what really gives me hope/confidence that he’ll be great are the comments from D&D about the character and how this actor delivered in the auditions!

  • Lady of Highgarden:
    It’s kind of embarrassing what’s happening on Tumblr right now. I just joined that place a couple of weeks ago and I’m already disgusted by what I’ve seen. They’re actually attacking the actor there, like it’s his fault that he was offered a freaking job.

    I was expecting someone slightly darker, too, but I’m not disappointed or anything. I’m sure he’ll do a great job. In Nina We Trust and all that :)

    Bunch of losers.

  • Adam Whitehead: agreements over how the show proceeds forwards post-Season 4, and they’

    The fact that they mentioned that there relationship with him is great, and said they had disagreements in every season they wrote tells me this isn’t something too major. Maybe they cut a character like, I don’t know, Ellaria Sand (that would totally fit the context, if you look at it again).

  • Pedro looks a little younger than I pictured the Red Viper to be, which is to say early-to-mid 40s. I have no idea if that’s actually the case – I can’t find his age anywhere – but it’s hardly something that I’m going to worry about. From this point forward, the work is all that matters.

    With respect to the opinions and beliefs expressed by those people who have commented before me, I personally could give two shits about Pedro Pascal’s race/ethnicity. All I care about is if the guy can convincingly play a character who is confident, intelligent, and dangerous to the bone. The clip from Nikita tells me that he can, and the vote of confidence expressed by Benioff and Weiss goes a long way with me. They know how important it is to do justice to this fan-favorite character, and they have shown remarkably good judgment through three seasons of excellent work. I trust their instincts, and I look forward to seeing Pedro on screen as the Red Viper next spring.

    In Nina Gold We Trust.

  • Holy crap! He played a character named Gregor on some show called Good Vs. Evil. That is hilarious!

  • Whenever people get upset about there being criticism over a casting, I like to remember threads like this: “Sean Bean Cast as Ned.”

    Several gems like this: “Sean Bean is a great guy and a true Blade but he is a dreadful, truly dreadful actor. “

  • Turncloak,

    Not defensive. Just wondering how you perceived the Dornish. Saying that the Martells are not African-Americans is the same as saying they are not Eskimos. It’s a fantasy series, not a survey course in anthropology.

  • Lex,

    ahem. Not everyone on Tumblr is “attacking” the actor. I’m on tumblr. A lot of people are, people who post here. Some people are expressing their discontent with his casting. I wouldn’t condemn an entire social/blogging network of GoT fans just because a GoT fans are upset.

  • Adam 2nd of his name:
    Anyone else see a young Liam Neeson in this guy? No one? Just me? Ok.

    Not just you! I can see it.

    I like his look – visually different to the rest of the Westerosi, which was my main criterion.

    Casting the Dornish as Latinos gives a lot of latitude for racial diversity, with the mix of native American, African, Asian and European ancestry.

  • I can already see an Oberyn/Loras flirting/bedding scene incoming for season 4… wait for that shitstorm.

  • Ours is the Fury:
    Whenever people get upset about there being criticism over a casting, I like to remember threads like this: “Sean Bean Cast as Ned.”

    Several gems like this: “Sean Bean is a great guy and a true Blade but he is a dreadful, truly dreadful actor. ”

    Also, Peter Dinklage can’t be Tyrion because he is not blonde.

  • Ours is the Fury,

    Apologies. I admit, I’m generalizing and I can’t even bring myself to take a look over there. But based on the description of some people’s behaviour, yeah, I have some opinions… :)

  • Atreyu,

    I imagined the Martells as swarthy Latinos but I’m happy with this casting. I would have been just as happy if actors like Edris Alba, Sidig or James Puerfoy have been casted. For me acting chops are worth more than the color of your skin and if Nina gold thinks Pedro is the perfect Red Viper than I’m on board. What bothers me is people not giving the actor a chance because the character is not of the pigment that he’s described as or that people imagined him to be.

  • Lex:
    Is ANYONE surprised at this embarrassing reaction? Not me. My first hint was the 500+ comments in the “Importance of Dorne” thread. No matter how the Dornish are cast, this was guaranteed to be a shit show. This is only the beginning.

    Sadly, this is true…

  • Nice choice! I’ve always thought that Dorne was based off of Spain and the Moorish influences. I think of the Water Gardens and picture the Alhambra. He’s good looking and, with make up, they can age him up a bit to be a old enough to be a father to the Sand Snakes. Good job!

  • Turncloak:
    Atreyu,

    I imagined the Martells as swarthy Latinos but I’m happy with this casting. I would have been just as happy if actors like Edris Alba, Sidig or James Puerfoy have been casted. For me acting chops are worth more than the color of your skin and if Nina gold thinks Pedro is the perfect Red Viper than I’m on board. What bothers me is people not giving the actor a chance because the character is not of the pigment that he’s described as or that people imagined him to be.

    I did too. The only truly black Dornish characters were the Sand Snakes described as such. The rest of them are supposed to be olive skinned and looking at the photo on the main post, the guy has the right skin color. The true diversity will come when Dorne is introduced and I expect many side characters, extras and definitely the appropriate Sand Snakes to be black (as they should be!) to add more diversity to the show. Going Latino for the Martells is the right move IMO.

  • He is SEXAY!

    Thumbs up! I think he’ll be perfect.

    3sum with Elaria and some dude, please.

  • Ours is the Fury,

    This echoes my sentiments in my first comment (thanks for linking to that post, by the way, I missed that one in my journey into the archives).

  • I’ve read about a third of the griping about this actor’s hue.I’ve got to remember that I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the Gold standard of casting, with almost no exceptions.
    The actor is Chilean, and in my book, that automatically brings diversity to a show that has done one humdinger of a casting job.
    Personally, I had envisioned darker, more piecing eyes and a beak-like nose to go with the widow’s peak, but I’ll adjust my expectations.
    Pedro speaks English with an American accent, so I’ll be interested to know how he will read his lines. Wonder if all the Dornish will speak the Common Tongue with some sort of Latin accent? Tune in later.

  • While I’m thinking about it – I know a woman who is mixed Japanese/Brazilian (the Brazilian side being the mestiço European/native American mix). She is SMOKING hot. Was a model in her younger years.

    There are quite a few like her in Brazil (and Peru) where there wer large Japanese migrant population which have partially blended in with the usual Latin mix – would be a great look for maybe Ellaria or Nymeria.

    Check out actress Daniele Suzuki for the look I mean (although the Brazilian/Japanese model I mentioned before tends slightly more to the Latina look rather than Japanese). I have no idea if Daniele Suzuki can act though. Or if she can speak English for that matter.

  • Turncloak:
    Arya Dunyett,

    Maybe the Dornish have American accents :-). It’s possible

    It would be hilarious. Especially if Peter Dinklage is given a scene where he imitates a Dornish accent (since he’s actually American). It does make sense for the accents to be different…

  • Turncloak:
    Arya Dunyett,

    Maybe the Dornish have American accents :-). It’s possible

    I wouldn’t hate that.

    Let’s subvert some fantasy clichés here! Medieval English didn’t sound like modern British – but that’s what everyone has in their heads… and it seems impossible to break that audience expectation.

    Some of what you hear in the Appalachians is closer to Shakespearean pronunciation than modern upper-class English is.

    I want to hear the “Dornish drawl”. At least a few different vowel sounds, dammit!

  • jentario: It would be hilarious.Especially if Peter Dinklage is given a scene where he imitates a Dornish accent (since he’s actually American).

    YESSSSSSS!!! That’d be solid gold.

  • Wow, he looks exactly how i pictured the character. Really glad they went the latino route as opposed to casting a middle-eastern guy. If you imagine Dornish people as middle-eastern you are sort of wrong, sorry.

  • Turncloak:
    Chickenduck,

    I can see the Red Viper stealing one of Loras’ lovers. Now wouldnt that add fuel to the fire to their book animosity ;)

    Now that’s what I’m talking about! Ser Turncloak, I salute you.

    The RV as a character has so much narrative potential… Looking forward to what invented scenes they create to build him up. I love what they did with the writing for the Queen of Thorns – the writing for the RV should be just as awesome.

    Excited for S4!!

  • jentario: It would be hilarious. Especially if Peter Dinklage is given a scene where he imitates a Dornish accent (since he’s actually American). It does make sense for the accents to be different…

    OMG THIS! Maybe the Dornish have Brooklyn accents. I hear Doran is a Jay Z fan

  • Phil,

    “Sorry”?

    Um, ‘apology’ not accepted, then

    This far in you really want to add more know-it-all douchiness to the conversation?

  • Turncloak:
    jentario,

    I got 99 problems and a sand snake ain’t one

    If you don’t mind, it’s 3 am and I think I’ll just go to sleep. Hopefully I’ll forget Brooklyn Doran but I will more likely have nightmares about it.

  • Turncloak,

    Gotcha, we are in agreement. So long as the Dornish aren’t blonde-haired, blue-eyed Nords, I think the casting is adequate. As far as acting chops go, with the number of named actors in the production, GOT can’t afford to pay for top talent, they do what they can. Besides, show-watchers could be looking at future Oscar winners who got their first break on the show.

  • quadurp:
    What the hell HBO or whoever decided this? I thought the Martells were dark-skinned like some African-Americans. Well, I shouldn’t be surprised of this white washing but I just had my hopes up.

    Actually he’s a Salty Dornish so he has olive skin. Casting someone from Chile is perfectly fine for the role. :)

    You’re thinking of Sandy Dornish who have darker skin due to the harsh sun.

  • Viva Latinoamerica! XD, To the people judging the actor because his skin is not dark enough or that his nose is big or whatever, stop embarrassing yourselves.

  • I’d only just gotten used to Cosimo Fusco , as a likely choice for the role of
    Oberyn Martell. I never reasoned that my preferences would win out ;
    Alexander Siddig , Oded Fehr , Naveen Andrews , etc. I’ve just never heard
    of this fellow being discussed here as a contender . Any ways, he’s got
    a resume and wanted the chance, so good luck to him.

    It’s not likely that this character will add any long term impact onscreen, as
    the main purpose is to relay his family’s name and historical relevance
    to viewers, set the stage for far reaching impacts in the future. Without a
    doubt, Oberyn places himself squarely in the middle of things, with
    bravado and challenge. I’m almost sad to see how short lived his role
    actually is, that is unless GoT decides to expand or give an interesting twist.
    I wonder whom will portray his concubine ?

    Since onscreen Daario lacked the swagger I’d hoped for, this guy better bring it,
    wig and all ! He’d better put Silvio Forel to shame with his sword ! *>*

  • Atreyu:
    Turncloak,

    Gotcha, we are in agreement. So long as the Dornish aren’t blonde-haired, blue-eyed Nords, I think the casting is adequate.

    Well, I’ll be anal and point out that one of the Sandsnakes IS canonically blonde/blue eyed (Tyene), but your point is correct.

    The Dornish need to be different, and Pedro is different.

    And the Sand Snakes should look more diverse than the rest of the Dornish anyway, from very white to very dark, to show how widely the RV has spread his seed.

  • Turncloak: OMG THIS! Maybe the Dornish have Brooklyn accents. I hear Doran is a Jay Z fan

    You talkin’ about Giancarlo Esposito ? Or are you just breaking bad, again ? (:

  • I was about to poo-poo this, because a) he’s too recognizable for playing American characters and b) he didn’t match the description in my mind, but….I think with the right costume and makeup, this could work.

    Plus, at least they are going with someone with a Chilean background.

    Still would’ve preferred Naveen Andrews…

  • Chickenduck,

    To add : not include the blonde , blue eyed persons of African descent ? or anywhere
    else for that matter. LMAO I guess he meant non- Norseman ancestry.

  • Doesn’t this character have like three scenes and then die? Who gives a flying fuck who plays him. He looks great.

    If I could add spoilers I would but I think my point is driven into the hearsts of all haters by leaving it in. Go have a cocktail. I am. He would.

  • Adam Whitehead:
    Off-topic, but that interview with Benioff and Weiss is very interesting. Apparently they and GRRM have had some disagreements over how the show proceeds forwards post-Season 4, and they’re killing off a number of characters earlier than in the books.

    Also:

    “We have a death coming up, and a lovely young woman who doesn’t want to die.”


    Shae, I’m thinking?

    Good point. Best to take it all in as it happens onscreen. Could make for some
    interesting perks or takeaways for future seasons.

    That’s got to be Rose Leslie, amirite ? Too soon for Shae (?)

  • “The boys love him, the girls love him, and he loves them all back”

    This quote from D&D indicates that they will be showing Oberyn’s bi-sexuality on the show, presumably via some sex scenes. Pedro has, as far as I can tell, played a number of gay roles in theatre. His career demonstrates that he’s comfortable with playing this aspect of the character, which is a good thing. The role may well have been tricky to fill because some actors couldn’t “handle the job description” when it was explained to them.

  • WildSeed:
    Chickenduck,

    To add : not include the blonde , blue eyed persons of African descent ? or anywhere
    else for that matter. LMAOI guess he meant non- Norseman ancestry.

    Yes, of course :) I was just making a dig about there being at least one blonde Dornish character.

    Conversations like this remind me of when I worked with a Turkish guy who was blonde and blue eyed. Everyone used to react with surprise when he told them where he was from (this was in Germany, where there is a large Turkish migrant community). He said his village, way out in the wilds of eastern Turkey, was almost entirely blonde, despite being surrounded by darker-complexioned people.

    Out of interest, where are you from specifically? I remember you saying West Indies, and I’d guess from an English-speaking country – Jamaica? Barbados? Trinidad?

  • Never understood why anyone would care about Oberyn.

    He arrives, insults Tyrion
    He insults Tyrion some more volunteers to fight
    Dies like a chump, after way too many repeat quotes from a movie that wasn’t that great.

    Woot … That’s the stuff of legends

  • Also with the news of Pedro’s casting – this solidifies my top fan picks for Doran as:

    Giancarlo Esposito
    Edward James Olmos

    Either of them could pass for Pedro’s father. Both of them are highly underrated actors in my opinion… Maybe too high-profile though.

  • Yeah, I have seen this guy before in various TV shows, and I think he will be fine. Just let him grow his hair out and a beard so he might look a few years older. Yes, Danny Trejo, or Joe Mantegna for Doran will be great, seriously. If the casting is going Latino, or Latino/Italian there will be a multitude of fine actors and actresses to fill the cast of the Dornish.

  • When I inadvertently fell across this link on a Television without Pity board, it was jarring. I had built up all the different casting possibilities in my head. Who could play our fabled Red Viper? I can’t say I wasn’t surprised to learn a a relative unknown had been cast in the role. The first pic that I saw kind of placed the “enh” in my mind but after seeing the Burn Notice still, I remembered him, and then I learned he played Eddie in ‘The Freshman.” For reasons beyond me being a Whedonite something just clicked in to place for me. The gear started whirring and lo, the more I think about it, the more I like this casting.
    I am glad they didn’t go for a big name for the Viper. It would have been awesome, but I surmise there would have been a loss of depth to the role. Superficiality would usurp pathos. Better to have someone we are not entirely familiar, so that we can see the character and not the actor. This will pay off as his arc gains momentum. Throw on some make-up, grow a little facial hair, put on a wig and some fine duds, armour, give him a sword, a swagger, a flash of the eyes and a certain gravitas…voila! All of these elements comprise the perfect RV despite the actor not being named Oded Fehr, Alexander Siddig, James Purefoy or Naveen Andrews.

    Another consideration in regards to Mr. Pascal’s talent: He will be appearing in Homeland Season 3. Not a gig to sniff at given its Emmy pedigree. He has flew by under our radar in a string of character roles in television for a long time. It seems Benioff , Weiss and Ms. Gold have snared a man on the rise.

    Am I disappointed? Of course I am. But I think over time and eventually through his performance we will see that Nina and co have made the right choice here. I tip a cup of Dornish Red to Mr. Pascal and welcome him to the fold. Congrats on this big step in your career Pedro!

  • This thread has got to be the most idiotic thing I’ve read this year, and I just got done reading about the Texas senator who didn’t know what a rape kit was. So, um, congrats on that dubious honor.

  • Ours is the Fury: Awww come on, Cogman, this comment thread isn’t that bad.Very much looking forward to seeing how Dorne is presented, as far as accent, culture and costuming.

    Maybe the Cogman’s “Wow” was actually an expression of his excitement at the selection of this “Chilean” actor for the RV rather than a comment on the comments. Maybe he honestly didn’t know. :-)

  • Awesome. I’m sure he won’t disappoint.

    Also: A big “Fuck you” to anyone posing as actual people here in the comments. From time to time people involved with the show do read and post here. There’s absolutely no need for your childish games.

  • Have to wait to see clips of his work, has that Latin look with long hair, etc. will look the the part. We now know what ethnic direction Nina is casting for Dorne, which I approve of, personally I was thinking India because of the wealth of Anglo-Indo actors in the UK, going international is good sign and this role will make this actors career.

    I was believing a big name would be cast as all these high profile actors wanting to be on GoT would have their agents working to find them a spot and RV was perfect for a them.

    Well now with this announcement out of the blue and no froggy either (bummer) we now have to look forward to Mace, Doran and Arianne. So what Latin actors could be chosen for the other big Dornish roles, Arianne we know will make some 20 something actress a household name as it did for Emilia. Let the guessing commence.

    There is a full episode from Nikita on YT with Pascal in a guest role, will have to watch it now.

  • This isn’t what I pictured, I always pictured someone who looked older, with a more Spanish look (essentially this artwork: http://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/oberyn_martell.jpg). However, even though I am not familiar with the actor’s work, based on the picture in the post and D&D’s description this could work. I like this casting. And ever since the casting call a few days ago I had a feeling that they would go Latino for the Dornish, so I had time to accept that.

    There is one thing that disappoints me, though: I thought a Latino Viper would finally end all of the posts say “THAY NED 2 CAST MOAR POC’S!1!” and the expectation that the show must meet some arbitrary number of ethnic minorities in the cast. However, it seems that even though they cast a latino actor (whose skin tone, may I add, perfectly matches what is described IN THE BOOKS), there are still of a lot of people saying “HE ISN’T BLAK ENUF!!1″. Some people are just never satisfied, even when the casting goes by the book…

  • Lady of Highgarden,

    While there are some good pages on tumblr, there are far too many PC circle-jerk “HURR CHEK UR CIS WHITE HETERONORMATIVE ABLEIST PRIVILEGE DURR” folks for my liking.

    And we saw them invade in the “importance of Dorne” thread. Hell it seems like they were prominently featured in the post itself.

  • What is with people thinking that Dornish people are super dark. Man it’s so obvious their meant to be closely modeled after Spain. And this Chilean actor looks the part. The red viper is black haired and olive skinned. All the martells are of a Mediterranean cast, I feel like casting an Hispanic actor is the right choice considering Dornish people are a mix of andals first men and Rhoynar. Naveen Andrews is Indian which seems more appropriate for characters in essos. But eh, acting is the most important part. He had to do something right at the audition.

  • Dogmayor:
    Chickenduck,

    Yea, too bad Doran and Oberyn are brothers, not father/son.

    Ah, yep true. My memory isn’t what it used to be.

    Still… Doran is supposed to look significantly older than Oberyn.

  • unrobb,

    It is not “invading” when most of those people have posted at WiC long before you did.

    Anyway, all fans of GoT, old and new, are welcome at WiC. The purpose of posts is to invite discussion. We aren’t interested in restricting post discussion only to existing commenters. That’s pretty boring. If a topic excites a group of people who typically congregate elsewhere enough to come on over to discuss it, that’s awesome. They are more than welcome.

  • tysnow,

    I imagine they’ll all probably be relative unknowns, or “Oh, THAT guy/girl” types. That seems to be Nina Gold’s MO. Seems to work.

  • Jake Umber,

    Well with 54 minutes an episode comes to 72 hours, looks to me like 9 seasons to make 80 hours, unless they start giving us 90 minute premieres and finales.

  • Jeez, comparing the comments here to those on Tumblr – literally EVERY SINGLE POST tagged with his name is about his skin color. Next to nothing about qualifications, excitement that the actor was cast, speculation on how he’ll do – nearly all about race.

    I thought Tumblr was this site where people posted funny memes, cat pictures, and the absurdly excellent researchinprogress. But apparently it’s mostly a place where all those people I went to college with whose majors end in “Studies” hang out. Nothing wrong with that, just had no idea how different the composition of that particular corner of the web is.

  • KG,

    I see what you’re saying but I disagree and think you are oversimplifying the Red Viper.

    He represents an old backstory, Lannister blowback so to speak that comes back to haunt them.

    The Red Viper is a warrior that comes to Kings Landing with one thing on his mind. How to fuck over the Lannisters and get vengeance for the brutal murder of his sister and her family.

    He is a heroic badass with cockiness and wit that takes on one of the realms greatest warriors in the name of avenging a beloved family member.

    He is a volcano on the verge of erupting, an atom bomb ready to explode, a nuclear facility about to meltdown…

    I really hope he brings a huge amount of tension to KL and punks down Tyrion and Tywin. I hope he outright insults Cersei and looks at the kings guard like “what are you going to do?”

    Basically this is D&Ds chance to throw someone like a civilized Khal Drogo into KL to ruffle everyone up… They are throwing a viper into a rats nest.

    Whoever this actor is, he has some huge shoes to fill and I hope he delivers. I personally love the Red Viper and I can’t wait to see him get in these Lannister faces…

  • JR,

    Casting is an extremely tedious process. 9 times out of 10 the person picked is not the first choice. For a role like this, someone would most likely audition for the casting director, then directors, then the studio, then the network. I’m sure D&D put a lot of thought into this decision.

  • tysnow,

    That’s a great point! If they start talking 80 hours rather than 80 episodes, that can mean very different things indeed.

  • The idea that he’s the “Latino Nathan Fillion” makes me like him about a zillion times more now. Just sayin’.

    (So excited to see Much Ado – hopefully – Sunday.)

  • tysnow:
    Jake Umber,

    Well with 54 minutes an episode comes to 72 hours, looks to me like 9 seasons to make 80 hours, unless they start giving us 90 minute premieres and finales.

    I *really* don’t think they meant that to be interpreted in legalese :) It’s an interview with TV producers, precision is not the name of the game.

  • Adam,

    How tumblr works is, only the first original post appears in the tumblr tagging system. So every person who reblogs the post to comment, you’re not going to see that. There are plenty of people who have no problem with his skin color who reblog and chat about the actor and his acting etc, but they are commenting later on, not in the first post. Also many people are starting posts and not tagging them because they just don’t care. People aren’t picking about tagging.

    I also know for a fact that it isn’t true that every single Oberyn or Pedro post is about his skin color because some of them originate from my blog, TumblrofThrones, and from WiCNet’s tumblr. :)

  • Ser Tahu,

    I assumed it was legit because “Ours Is the Fury” replied (and supposedly, as a moderator/blogger, OItF has access to the associated email address). :-)

  • Ours is the Fury:
    Adam,

    How tumblr works is, only the first original post appears in the tumblr tagging system. So every person who reblogs the post to comment, you’re not going to see that. There are plenty of people who have no problem with his skin color who reblog and chat about the actor and his acting etc, but they are commenting later on, not in the first post. Also many people are starting posts and not tagging them because they just don’t care. People aren’t picking about tagging.

    I also know for a fact that it isn’t true that every single Oberyn or Pedro post is about his skin color because some of them originate from my blog, TumblrofThrones, and from WiCNet’s tumblr. :)

    I took careful care not to say EVERY one, only to say the vast majority of the ones I saw ;)

    Thanks for the clarification on how Tumblr works. Between what I saw and the “Tumblr crowd” comments some have made here, I’d just gotten the impression there was a less heterogeneous composition there than I’d expected. So the original post system makes it so that the tag page is biased towards post about his race (because, presumably, people upset about it are commenting less and posting more)?

  • How bout Cote de Pablo as Arianne, she’s Chilean and hot, hot plus talented (NCIS).
    Another big plus for here is she watches a little known show that the fans here talk about daily. Just click here for the Hollywood Reporter article.

  • Adam,

    I posted the link as a response to people whining that he was too white. I was not one of those people, just wanted to disprove the notion that this casting didn’t give the show diversity points. I didn’t mean it was relevant to his performance in the role or anything.

  • Personally, I think as long as he looks different (/darker) than the rest of Westeros, issues of tone don’t bother me at all. And he’s got that down. He looks like you’d expect a Spaniard to compared to a northern European, or a South American to in comparison to a North American. Fine by me.

    More important is how he actually performs the role. The show will be SO much better if he just kills it. And for now we have really no idea how he’ll do – not much to go on – other than to trust in Nina. And I can do that for the time being.

    And in the meantime, I’m going to go back to the books, re-read the “you raped her, you murdered her, you killed her children!” scene, and get psyched for seeing him on screen!

  • Adam,

    I think people who are upset about it are more likely to start an original post to vent, yes, which would then cause the post to appear in the tags. People happy with the casting are just going to reblog the casting announcement links from WiC or EW or whatever and comment on it for the most part.

  • Hodor’s Bastard:
    Ser Tahu,

    I assumed it was legit because “Ours Is the Fury” replied (and supposedly, as a moderator/blogger, OItF has access to the associated email address). :-)

    a) Cogman usually uses the name “Bryan Cogman,” and more importantly,
    b) Why on Earth would his one comment here be “wow!”?? :P Cogman’s only ever come in here to add content. And you’d imagine at the very least a “he’s great, congrats, can’t wait to see him play the role” comment if he did write something here :)

  • Ours is the Fury:
    Adam,

    I think people who are upset about it are more likely to start an original post to vent, yes, which would then cause the post to appear in the tags. People happy with the casting are just going to reblog the casting announcement links from WiC or EW or whatever and comment on it for the most part.

    Interesting. Thanks for the explanation!

  • And of course that’s the real Cogman. He’s a fucking gifted writer. He doesn’t need to say more than “Wow” to make an impact.

    (He often uses B Cogman here.)

  • tysnow:
    Adam,

    One can only hope, 9 seasons of GoT beats 8 any day.

    Hey, I hope so too! And in the end I wouldn’t take a post-season 3 interview as evidence that 8 seasons is a hard limit, even if (as is totally possible) it’s what they’re aiming for now. They haven’t even written season 5 yet – much less 6, 7, or 8 – and a lot can change in five years.

  • Ours is the Fury:
    And of course that’s the real Cogman. He’s a fucking gifted writer. He doesn’t need to say more than “Wow” to make an impact.

    (He often uses B Cogman here.)

    Color me surprised. Cool!

  • Adam,

    I meant to be a bit “tongue-in-cheek” with my original post. I guess that didn’t come across well. Truthfully though, the use of brevity is probably the best reaction to this thread.

  • Seriously? People are throwing fits over Pascal having a lighter complexion than they imagined? Goes to show people will see what they want to see and actively seek reasons to complain, whether they realize it or not. So long as he’s distinct from the rest of the whitewashed Westerosi, I’m down with the extra color he’ll bring to the show.

    I’m relieved it’s someone I’m not familiar with. My favorite castings in film tend to be actors I can’t recognize. Plus, how can I complain when the show has only thrived thus star on the Gold standard? Say whatever you like about D&D & Co.’s decisions in your personal quibblefests, but I don’t recall any major fangripes over important castings, only personal reservations here and there. Knowing the role is cast is enough to put me at ease. I remember hearing about the skepticism surrounding Mark Addy’s dramatic turn as Robert. Or a random example outside of GoT, the Captain from Pan’s Labyrinth, who up until then made a name for himself in typecasted Spanish soap operas. The point is, talented people know what talented people look like. Gold and the GoT writers are in the privileged (and proven!) position of redefining lesser known actors by offering them outstanding roles from GRRM’s universe. The show’s cast was largely unknown to me before GoT, which is one of the benefits of being an American viewer beholding a largely British cast at work. Stateside, we see so many of the same big name actors relentlessly recycled for their star power, in television and film alike. What would incite this utter lack of confidence in Pascal’s casting from the fanbase? It boggles the mind.

  • This thread is just really something by now.

    A few long-winded thoughts. Essentially, I like this. But to address a lot of the things people were thinking about:

    Diversity — Of course we don’t want to do diversity for diversity’s sake, but the Dornish are meant to be different. Well, a lot of this show’s primary cast comes from the extreme NW corner of Europe – and Germany and Holland ain’t that far from that, either. Lots of extras come from there, too, given the filming in Ireland. Chile is about as far as you can get from Ireland. When people talk “diversity” they often mean “black” or “Middle Eastern.” Well, “South American” is pretty darned different from British Isles. I would like to see the Dornish occupy several different types of coloring given they are described differently – hell, to me Ellaria is like an Aishwarya Rai looking type, while Arianne is more like Salma Hayek, and Tyene, for instance, closer to Gabrielle Wilde, though I wouldn’t make her that attractive. So there’s a lot of room for things here.

    Age — Not an issue. He appears to be in his late 30s. Perfectly good on this. Given Tywin was telling Tyrion to “wed, bed and put a child” in 14-year-old Sansa Stark, no reason Oberyn can’t have a few Sand Snakes around 20 yrs of age, which is fine.

    “He’s been in too many American shows.” — Er, us Yanks produce quite a bit of really good damned television. In fact, The Good Wife is one of the better serial dramas around, so that he had a recurring role there is a good thing. And someone alighting from Chile (or Chile who moved to the US) is more naturally going to look in Hollywood’s direction than London.

    “I’m not sure about his acting. I wanted Oded Fehr or Naveen Andrews.” — Yeah, it’s a shame that Nina Gold and crew, who have pulled rabbits out of hats from day 1 with the likes of Gwendoline Christie (amazing), Sophie Turner (doubly amazing), Lena Headey (as D&D said, she got at a funny side of Cersei that other auditions did not, and I think she rules), Dan Hildebrand (he was in 3 fucking episodes and we’re still talking about him), or Maisie Williams (OMFG), decided not to go with the guy who was sixth-billed in The Mummy, which if I remember correctly was just a few votes shy of winning 9 Oscars in 1999 over American Beauty, or Naveen Andrews, who happens to be from England, and should be disqualified just for appearing in The English Patient (blech).

    Also, this below makes a lot of sense:

    Joshua Taylor: I am glad they didn’t go for a big name for the Viper. It would have been awesome, but I surmise there would have been a loss of depth to the role. Superficiality would usurp pathos.

    True enough. Diana Rigg was one thing – Olenna Redwyne is all about the quips, so aiming at a “Dowager Countess of Westeros” effect was a solid play there. On this one, the unknown is nice. As another poster said, Oded Fehr would have been a more known quantity, and his ceiling isn’t exactly Sean Bean-level.

    I’m not saying that everyone who has something to say should just clam up and bow down to the temple of D&D, by all means. But they’ve earned a good amount of good will that doesn’t come through with some of the comments, especially in casting. By all means, express doubt, I say, if you feel that way, but please reserve judgment.

  • Lastly – and hopefully there will be another thread to discuss this – but that D&D interview is a really good one. I think 8 seasons probably is the sweet spot for this show. They’ve said they don’t want to do “10 seasons and kill the golden goose,” and though some HBO types have said something like 7, 8 would really probably pace it out best, leaving 3 seasons for the bulk of the final 2 books, with most of Season 4 to ASoS and some of FfC and a tiny bit of DwD, and most of Books 4-5 crammed into Season 5. That would probably pace it well, allow for some judicious cutting of some of the meandering of the next 2 books, but not so much that the impact of what’s great in those books (and there’s some great stuff) is lost.

  • Ours is the Fury,
    My mistake, I have never seen him post as “B Cogman” before :P.

    Also, something that is really annoying me is how many people are getting such an iconic line wrong.
    IT’S NOT “You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children.”
    ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
    It’s “You raped her. You killed her. You murdered her children.”
    Or alternatively “I killed her screaming whelp. Then I raped her. Then I smashed her fucking head in. :P

  • mariamb18,

    Very well put. I always try to think of the show as a seperate entity, and do enjoy some well placed surprises lol. I do my best to not bring negativity to my unsullied family upon viewings. Their casting has been pretty spot on for the most part so I will give this guy the benefit of the doubt. As to his coloring I have no pre conceptions of skin tone lol. I love GRRM’s descriptions of the salty/sandy/stony dornishmen.

    For those belittling Oberyn’s involvement/importance in the upcoming plot…

    The rising tension in KL Reach vs. Dorne and Cersei hates them all lol; if Loras joins KG and Cersei is available again we may see Tywin proposing a match Cersei+Vipe(Viper tells Tyrion about this in the book); His first conversation, and the one one later in Tyrion’s cell have the most incredible dialogue; The prince arrives at KL with a serious agenda, the scenes between The Viper and Tywin Lannister will be emmy worthy; N2M we will most likely get to atttend the dinner Tywin/Oberyn/Mace Tyrell which was offscreen in the book; THIS TRIO AGAIN AS JUDGES IN THE TRIAL!; The Battle with the Mountain in all it’s glory will be the icing on the cake! Unfortunate bystander and all lol.

  • Ser Tahu:
    Ours is the Fury,
    My mistake, I have never seen him post as “B Cogman” before :P.

    Also, something that is really annoying me is how many people are getting such an iconic line wrong.
    IT’S NOT “You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children.”
    ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
    It’s “You raped her. You killed her. You murdered her children.”
    Or alternatively “I killed her screaming whelp. Then I raped her. Then I smashed her fucking head in. :P

    Lighten up bro, after all, how many years have people been saying “Play it again, Sam.” ?

  • Greatjon of Slumber,
    Well, aside from minor storylines (like Brienne’s), it is highly unlikely that AFfC and ADwD stuff will be started in season 4, and most of the major storylines from those two books can’t really be compressed so much that they would fit in a single season. I believe that 9 seasons is the sweet spot; seasons 5 and 6 for AFfC and ADwD (with 6 containing some TWoW stuff in minor storylines like Bran’s), 7 = TWoW (and maybe some final elements from ADwD such as Barristan’s last chapter. I believe that season 6 will end with Stannis vs the Bolton’s, while season 7 will open with the battle of Meereen, they can’t be in the same season for budgetary reasons). 8 = 50% TWoW, 50% ADoS. 9 = ADoS (finale). I think that the 8 season figure has been thrown out there with the assumption that TWoW and ADoS can be fit into one season each (an assumption that I don’t think will end up being true).

  • Zack,

    Yeah, I was wondering about his height as well. The RV has a commanding presence on horseback, in the field and in the room. I hope Pedro gets the RV’s swaggar right! Also, I hope he isn’t built like the actor that plays Loras Tyrell, who I still can’t believe can wield a longsword or a heavy lance….IMHO that actor is completely underwhelming as a warrior and seems to be better suited as a sword-swallower. By the way, I believe he will die in S4…having him go to Dragonstone to become another Wilas would be silly….unless his injury was another shell game…

    One thing that I find compelling about the casting is that they usually get the “warrior-aspect” right. Ned was perfect, and Jorah, Barristan, Hound, Bronn, Brienne, Jon, and Jaime, Beric, and Arya are excellent but there have been some noticable miscues, like Gregor and Loras (I’m still on the fence regarding Daario). Hopefully, this guy is more of the “Bronn” warrior than the “Loras” warrior.

  • Man all y’all silly.

    This is ridiculousness. Some deep breathing exercises would probably be a good idea for a few here, haha.

    I was just like “Oh shit we have a name and a face! And he’s not British! I am officially HYPED.”

    I’m not saying I won’t possibly perhaps be disappointed later on if it turns out this guy doesn’t ooze the RV’s charisma like he needs to. But how about waiting and seeing. Eh whatever I guess. I’d certainly have had a few words if this were Purefoy (who I’ve nothing against, but he’s not the RV). So…

  • Hodor’s Bastard,

    Loras is completely alive and healthy in my opinion. Cersei is just an idiot and bought that whole acting job by margaery “dieing is not dead”. The Tyrells are playing Cersei for a fool

  • After this guy knocks it out of the park next season, at least this thread will be good for a laugh.

  • Hodor’s Bastard,

    Well, personally I wouldn’t count Finn Jones as Loras among the handful of miscast actors, I never saw Loras as a beefy guy in my mind, and certainly people on the slender side can have plenty of strength, and fighting skill. (As a fan of kung fu films)

    The reason I am curious about the height is because I want to be able to envision THE SCENE, in my mind. I don’t think I’ll be upset no matter what the height is because camera trickery can do wonders. I’m just curious.

  • Zack,

    Yes…the kung fu dudes are toned and well-defined which would be great for LT (sort of like Grey Worm’s build)…but that Finn Jones is just a twig. Oh well, no matter…all is good.

  • Some of these comments make me sick. Its not only how someone ‘looks’ it’s how they act. He obviously got the role because Nina Gold, D&D and whoever else is involved was impressed by him. I trust them because they’ve chosen the best of the best and every character to me has been up to the standard I have and beyond. Just have faith! Also when he gets make up, costume, wig and whatever else I’m sure it’ll be amazing.

  • As he looks currently no. If they actually give him long lustrous black hair and bronze or olive skin then maybe a little more. As for his acting. We’ll have to see.

    They screwed up Daario and Edmure for looks. Whats not saying they wont make the same mistake again.

  • Conan Stevens wrote on his website regarding returning to the role of Gregor, and of course the character’s big scene in S4:

    I am aware of the fight with a certain snakey character.

    It and the tourney scene are the defining moments of Gregors character, a time to show the audience why the mention of Gregors name is so frightening when he is not around.

    I had to take this into consideration in the tourney scene if I was to play Gregor true to the books, and the intent of the character, and more importantly for me to keep the character the same over the span over several years filming.

    If this scene is kept in the TV series I will watch it with interest to see how it is played by Mr. Whyte, it will be good to see how an actor with a different background to myself approaches this scene.

    http://www.conanstevens.com/acting-movies-tv-film/tall-actor-blog/answers-on-got-gregor-clegane-for-fan-emails.html

  • Wolfheart:
    As he looks currently no. If they actually give him long lustrous black hair and bronze or olive skin then maybe a little more. As for his acting. We’ll have to see.

    They screwed up Daario and Edmure for looks. Whats not saying they wont make the same mistake again.

    Seriously? Edmure on the show looks perfect.

    Daario on the show is different to book Daario, but book Daario would look ridiculous.

  • arden,

    There’s nothing wrong with pointing out that sometimes, the emperor really IS naked. Someone has to, or else all we have here is an embarrassing fanboy circle-jerk.

    In short, I deeply dislike watching everyone parroting each other.
    For example: “James Purefoy for EVERY ROLE ON THE SHOW! DO IT NOW, D&D NOOOWWWWWWWW!” (repeat at least forty times for every role in every casting thread for the past four years.)

    I watch the show religiously, and recommend it to all my friends. I lend my books to anyone who asks, in hope of creating new fans.

    I do not like the Dorne storylines at all. I make no secret of that. Personally, I can’t understand why anyone would dislike the Iron Islands sequences, but … it’s a free country.

    Other than that, I’d wager 99% of my negative comments are about the behavior of the *other people* on this site.

    Fanboyism is embarrassing. Why can’t we discuss a TV show without acting like pimple-faced geeks eating Cheetos on mom’s couch?

  • No problem with how he looks. It takes some of the excitement away knowing we don’t have a mountain going into the second half of book 3 tho. How can you replace an important character with someone who doesnt look remotely similar and barely speaks? Ugh, the non-book readers I watch the show with don’t even know who the mountain is.

  • Unbowd UnbentUnHodor:
    Some of these comments make me sick. Its not only how someone ‘looks’ it’s how they act. He obviously got the role because Nina Gold, D&D and whoever else is involved was impressed by him. I trust them because they’ve chosen the best of the best and every character to me has been up to the standard I have and beyond. Just have faith! Also when he gets make up, costume, wig and whatever else I’m sure it’ll be amazing.

    Yes! They have yet to truly miscast anybody. Even when somebody looks differently than I pictured (Stannis) the performance sells it. People just like to complain I guess. Even though Ian Whyte is too thin for the Mountain, he gets so much undeserved negativity that I’m now firmly on his side. It’s backlash against the backlash.

  • Ser Tahu,

    I doubt you will be hearing that in the show. Certain things work fine in the books but sound cheesy on film, kind of like the battle cries in the books that people yell out like “Winterfell!”

  • SerCountryFriedSteak,

    How much darker would he need to be to satisfy you? He is a POC…and he doesn’t look “white”. What more do you need? I am truly questioning that…most Hispanics and Middle Easterners are not that dark. I just don’t get it. Honestly. I wonder how many people truly understand the amount of diversity there is within any one ethnic group…

  • Alex,

    Well the last part of my comment was supposed to be semi-joking, you can picture the characters any way you desire, but **cough**theDornishareclearlyhispanic**cough**. Oh… Sorry… again

  • Awesome! So frigging excited. With this actor being cast, I’m confident with the groundwork the showrunners are laying for Dorne.

    And, whew, are there a lot of idiots in this fandom! The guy is Chilean, and people are complaining he’s “too light-skinned”? Do these people have any idea how racist they sound?

    Also, I’m all for the “Edward James Olmos for Doran Martell” campaign. Admiral Adama as the leader of the one, truly independent of the Seven Kingdoms? YES.

  • I just came here to see all the ensuing whining following this announcement.

    WiC doesn’t disappoint. Unless something crazy happens,or you’re on the production team this is the guy they felt was best for the part, so this is the guy that is going to play the Red Viper.

    Welcome to Game of Thrones Mr. Pascal, count me me as someone excited to see you play the role!

  • JR:
    Josh Parker,

    Not a teenagerand certainly would never watch Dr. Who.Im am American and we have plenty of great options here like Justified & Breaking Bad instead of watching a silly show like Dr. Who. I’ve watched Deadwood, the Wire, & the Sopranos and I guess I have a much higher bar than you.

    I love Deadwood, The Wire and Sopranos. I can’t wait for Breaking Bad to start up again. I never miss a season of Mad Men. I could probably give you a solid break down of the best and worst seasons of any half decent drama that’s been on either HBO or Showtime in the last decade and a few less than half decent ones. I can do the same for most quality cable dramas in the same time period, though I admittedly haven’t gotten through all of those yet, and several British shows on top of that. In fact, it’s rare for me to run into someone that I can’t have an intelligent conversation with about their favorite show (unless it’s something like Big Brother).

    Doctor Who is a good show.

  • Seonaidh Ceanneidigh,

    Wow,

    This news from Conan Stevens site IMO is just screaming at D&D to hire him. He has stated he read all the books (done his homework) and he is an unemployed “beach bum.”

    And at the sametime he is being respectful to that Ian (season 2 mountain) guy…

    With this Conan Stevens revelation I would say the ball is in D&Ds court. If D&D want Conan Stevens back for season 4 he is there for the taken…

    However, I feel Ian is probably still under contract so the Red Viper vs Mountain fight will be a total laughable joke with The Beanpole playing The Mountain…

    Such a pitty…

  • Caravaggio,
    I too am in support of the Edward James Olmos for Doran campaign. Given how they have cast the Red Viper, he definitely has the look for Doran. As for his acting ability, the only thing I have seen him in is Dexter, and from what I can pull of the role.

    To the person who suggested Giancarlo Esposito; I personally want him to play Brown Ben Plumm, assuming he hasn’t been cut from the show entirely. As for his role in Revolution, I am fairly certain that there wouldn’t be any scheduling conflicts.

    Completely off-topic: I just started watching Silk, and it already has Maester Aemon and Alliser Thorne in it. I love seeing GoT actors in other series’ :D

    Arthur,
    Well, Ian Whyte has been there since season 1 in prosthetic roles (such as White Walkers and the Giant in season 3). So the impression that I got as to his appearance as Gregor in season 2 is that it was a last minute. They realised that Conan couldn’t come back for the seconds season so were in a rush to find someone tall who looked roughly similar to play the role, saw Ian doing nothing, and shoved him in armour. So given that Ian will still be around doing prosthetic stuff in season 4 contracts won’t likely be an issue. But it means that there are also two ways to go about it; the first would be to get Conan back since contracts won’t be an issue, and the second would be to just use Ian since he is already around (like with season 2). I personally hope for the former, as he really conveyed Gregor’s inner rage. Also, whenever I mention Gregor/the Mountain to my non-reader friends, they always say ‘oh, you mean that guy that chopped the horses head off’, never ‘that Lannister guy from season 2.’

  • Ive not seen his work, the casting has been fantastic so i trust the team. As for the look, the skin color is a non issue, Ill wait to see him in full costume and hear him speak before i judge. but for now i approve

  • Conan is not coming back. By now the cast is likely set and they are getting ready to do read-throughs and begin filming next week. Conan screwed up. Ian will do fine once he is in full armor.

  • Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Are there any clips where he speaks with an accent? In that Nikita clip he sounded American.

    I don’t think there will be a specific Dornish accent (Spanish or the like) except for maybe for the Orphans of the Greenblood (if included, since they did not assimilate to Westerosi/Dornish society). I assume the high-born families (Martells, Daynes) will use a British accent much like the rest of Westeros.

  • cozmeesah,

    Well said.

    Can’t believe the reaction of many here. I’m glad they didn’t go dark skinned. And no need for any big name actor.

    Its not called acting for nothing. He’ll look the oart when he needs to. You people do know that Lena is a brunette right? And that Mark Addy doesn’t usually have a beard and is often in comedic roles?? These actors were not posing as GOT characters in their head shots.

    Give him a chance.

  • Damn surprised by the hate especially after the new picture, give the guy a shot

  • eetrebor,

    Roy Dotrice sure did roll his R’s when speaking as Oberyn in the audiobook. I’m hoping for a Spanish accent just to further differentiate Dorne from the rest of Westeros.

  • natehilk,

    Me too. I always pictured Dorne as more like Italy where the northerners are fair skinned and light haired and southerners are dark haired and darker skin.
    the casting has been so on for so many roles that I have faith in whoever they choose.

  • Ser Tahu:
    My mistake, I have never seen him post as “B Cogman” before :P.

    Also, something that is really annoying me is how many people are getting such an iconic line wrong.
    IT’S NOT “You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children.”
    ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
    It’s “You raped her. You killed her. You murdered her children.”
    Or alternatively “I killed her screaming whelp. Then I raped her. Then I smashed her fucking head in. :P

    You might want to take another look at that scene.

  • I can already see an Oberyn/Loras flirting/bedding scene incoming for season 4… wait for that shitstorm.

    Oberyn/Loras? Pffft, how quaint. How about some Oberyn/Mace hate-sex? All the Tyrell blood is running quite warm, eh? ;o)

    As for stealing boyfriends, I can totally see Oberyn berating Loras for stealing Renly from him.

  • Just so I understand correctly…the complaints about this cast news is that he’s not dark coloured enough?

  • Pau Soriano: Lol again with the latino thing….a Latino is a mix of white european with central/south american aborigen, dornishmen are a mix of white european and moor/arabic/bereber, maybe indian, but never american…

    Spanish people are NOT latinos, speaking spanish doesn’t make you latino ;)

    He looks like a dornishman though, but of the “spanish” looking ones…they couldn’t have gone with a “whiter” look…Natalia or Oona look more the part ;)

    Actually, speaking Spanish does make you a Latino/a.

    In the dictionary of the Real Academia de la Lengua Española (the ultimate authority in the Spanish tongue) definition #7 of the word “Latino” estates that a Latino/a is:

    “Natural de los pueblos de Europa y América en que se hablan lenguas derivadas del latín.” (translation: Native of European and American nations where tongues derived from Latin are spoken). You can find the original here: http://lema.rae.es/drae/?val=Latino

    This means anyone who speaks Spanish is Latino, regardless of the color of their skin…and French, Italian, Portuguese and Romanian, for that matter. Anyone born in a country where the native tongue derives from Latin is obviously a Latino.

    One thing Latino is not, however, is a race/ethnicity, as many posts here would seem to suggest. There’s not only plenty of white folk who are Latinos in Europe, but there’s many and more here in Latin America as well. Being one myself, I know this for a fact.

  • Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I just don’t think having a Spanish accent would make sense, the Dornish speak Common (natively) just like the rest of Westeros. In GoT/ASOIAF, Common = British English….therefore a (regional?) British accent makes the most sense. Just like they’ve done with The North.

    There is a mention in the books of a “Dornish Drawl” FWIW…

  • JRR Tzolkin: Actually, speaking Spanish does make you a Latino/a.
    One thing Latino is not, however, is a race/ethnicity, as many posts here would seem to suggest. There’s not only plenty of white folk who are Latinos in Europe, but there’s many and more here in Latin America as well. Being one myself, I know this for a fact.

    Your last paragraph holds the issue at hand. The term “Latin America” is quite recent, just 150 years old, and because that’s how language evolves, it has become that people from South (and certain areas of Central) America are “latinos”. So a Puertorrican that was born and grew up in Florida is a “latino”, because his origins are Latin America.

    All these things just add to confusion, like, you can be Spanish without being from Spain? Not a Spaniard though.

    It all works fine in the Spanish (from Spain) language, but English language seems to have added lots of different terms that make everything very confusing. We had a similar discussion recently as “Americans” are, technically, citizens from America including Chileans, Canadians, etc. but the term is basically only used for citizens of USA. “Hispanic America” is another fun term.

    EDIT : I guess it all comes to simplicity. Why discuss what he is and not just say that he’s Chilean? “Eastern Asian”, “Latino”, “Nordic”. Instead of making things easier, we make them more confusing in the end, especially now when people are constantly moving around the planet.

  • Ser Tahu:
    Caravaggio,
    I too am in support of the Edward James Olmos for Doran campaign… As for his acting ability, the only thing I have seen him in is Dexter, and from what I can pull of the role.

    Ah, a shame you didn’t catch his turn as Admiral William Adama in the revived Battlestar Galactica that ran from 2003 to 2009. It was the finest performance of his career! It features the hallmarks of what would make his Doran compelling: brooding, pragmatic, a long-game chess player, and tempestuous but ultimately respectful relationships with son and daughter figures.

    A shame Conan Stevens won’t make it back. I dearly hope Ian Whyte bulks up for the role. The spry, lithe, and agile Oberyn taking on the lumbering, towering, rampaging Gregor is a visual that made the duel the best in the books.

  • NYurac,

    Parece que es verdad el dicho que hay un chileno en todas partes. Estamos a un paso de dominar el mundo xDD

    Also, is so interesting read people debating about our ethnic composition or how ‘white’ we are.
    Sooo funny.

  • NYurac,

    Parece que es verdad el dicho de que en todas partes hay algún chileno. Estamos a un paso de dominar el mundo xDD

    And is so interesting read people debating about our ethnic composition or how ‘white’ we are.
    Sooo funny.

  • D&D seem to know exactly how the Red Viper is supposed to be. If he really does the job effortlessly then I can’t wait to see him on screen.

  • eetrebor,
    You don’t need a British accent to speak British English. The Dornish could have any accent the producers want them to have, as long as it makes sense in the universe and they speak the common tongue. And given Dorne’s relative separation from the other kingdoms, it makes sense for them to speak with a non-British European accent. And just for the record, the books (and therefore the common tongue) are in American English.

    Caravaggio,
    Battlestar Galactica is on my list of shows that I want to watch, so I will get around to it eventually, but if his character is as you have described him, then that only increases the likelihood of Olmos eventually landing the role. And although it is admittedly unlike, as I said it is still possible for Conan to return (and I really hope he does. My main complaint with Ian Whyte was not his physical build, but the fact that he did not convey the great inner rage that flows through Gregor while Conan got that across brilliantly).

  • Sunny: They better not do brownface…. I swear to God I will hit something.

    I had personally imagines someone Persian (usually very pale sans sunlight) or perhaps Indian but give this guy Natures Brownface – He looks like he may tan easy and Dorne is hot and sunny – With his dark eyes and dyeing his hair black and he may look the part.

  • Ser Tahu,

    I know that they can choose to do whatever they want with accents. What I’m saying is that I don’t think a Spanish/non-British accent makes sense in-universe for the Dornish (whereas such accents make sense for the Braavosi, Lorathi, Asshai’i, etc). Would you expect the Daynes to have a Spanish accent too? Or the Yronwoods? There is clearly an identifiable Dornish accent/drawl/manner of speech in the books, but what exactly that is or if they are even going to bother with it is for D&D to decide.

  • Ours is the Fury,

    Agree completely.

    I’m baffled by some of the comments here. People complaining that Pedro isn’t dark enough? Bizarre. I always pictured Dorne as a sort of Moorish Spain. Pedro is Latino so he fits perfectly IMO.

  • As much as people are criticizing this, I pretty much knew they’d cast an unknown in this role, due to the fact that there are a lack of famous actors who suit the description who are not to famous to play the role. I mean, lets be honest, but people like Oded Fehr, and Naveen Andrews, and this is just what i get the impression of, aren’t even famous amongst those who are really into tv and film, like ciaran hinds was famous. In terms of ethnicity, i dont see what people are complaining about, this guy was just about how i imagined the martells, anything from him to oded fehr’s skin tone. For those who imagined them with darker skin, the martells are described as salty dornishmen, who “are lithe and dark, with smooth olive skin and long black hair” and i’d say that guy has olive skin, those who have darker skin would fit more into the sandy dornishmen category. To be honest the favourites for this role never really impressed me so much that i’d say i really want them for that role, so I prefer they went with this guy. Nina Gold, given the vast amounts of casting does, has done an outstanding job in creating the best cast in television and the best i’ve ever seen on the screen. So I trust the showmakers who have spent hours and hours casting this role over fans who’ve only seen a couple of films or tv shows with people they think would be better at it

  • Agreed.
    I think Dorne being such a sunny place does mean actors should get some sun (real or fake) for the role. That just makes sense to me guess and I do not consider it “brown face”

    Look at Pascal in this photo and he looks good with a little suntan! Compared to the pale boy he looks olie skinned or maybe it’s summer and he is tan. Who knows.

    I saw Pascal the last 2 week’s episode of Graceland ad he had very dark hair. Two other things I did notice re-watching that scene today… Pedro Pascal does look at least 40 years old easily and he is more slender than some of the photos make him out to be. Both points increased my ability to see him as Oberyn honestly.

    Anyone that wants to see VERY recent work of his check out “Graceland” on USA Network where he plays Juan Badillo. (Mike’s FBI handler)
    – He first appears in Episode 1×02 ‘Guadalajara Dog ‘ at about 13 minutes into the episode.
    – In Episode 1×03 ‘Heat Run’ he appears about 1 or 12 minutes in.

  • Mike:
    Clearly people are over-thinking things. How ’bout you just watch the show, if the actor does well in his or her role, then awesome! When I watch it, I’m not humming on saying “Oh well, this person should be black, and this person should be etc..” All these choices I’d imagine have to get at least some input from GRRM. So.. what does that tell you? Too many people hung up on trivial details, or just plain want to nit pick about everything..

    This^
    I have never been a follower of any show but GOT before and even with a show like this I don’t really post or read posts on a daily basis, so I’m not sure wether all fans of other shows are like this or not. When I read the reactions to the season finale in another post I almost couldn’t believe it. I am olive skinned. I’m very sensitive to any kind discrimination, but watching a show and accusing the showrunners of that because the majority of the cast is white and then again because the group of slaves was darker is just nonsense.

    I have never watched anything on tv or movies and thought: “hey! There are not enough darker skinned people in it! That’s racist!” So I’m utterly surprised with some of the posters here, specially the ones who think they can do a better job with the show than D&D. No wonder Mr. Cogman’s comment was simply “wow”, that was my first reaction as well.

  • The only thing I’m concerned about at this point is what they decide to about his accent. Clearly he is Chilean who often acts on American TV with an American accent. Neither American nor South American accents would be ideal.

  • I didn’t remember this guy from The Good Wife, so I just re-watched a few of his scenes on DVD. Needless to say, I am NOT happy.

    They are really scraping the barrel here. Imo, he neither looks right, nor has the gravitas, charisma or, quite frankly, the acting chops to pull off the role.

    I call miscast, but we shall see.

  • Rhys,

    I’m wondering about the accent too, but it is not a big concern for me really. More of a curiosity. Casting an American (South, Central or North) did throw me for a bit of a loop for that reason.

    I’ve always wondered how they will play Dorne on the series culturally, their look and sound. I think we got a hint of how they plan to have the Martells look, but they easily could cast a Mediterranean or North African/ Berber Doran or Arianne. Of course they could cast all Latino actors too.

    The accent though, that is still a complete unknown!

  • How are how many Sand Snakes he might have had even remotely significant. The show will mention one or two at best, and you might see one at most.

  • Bard: So he is a WPOC. A “white person of color”. ;)

    You just won the internet ;)

    I’m really happy they didn’t go the indian/sub-saharian/more dark route. If they chose a white guy for Oberyn that means Dorne will be white/olive oil, like all the mediterranean is, and like I pictured Dorne to be, because that is what it is. So no Danny Trejo, Idriss Elba, Naveen Andrews etc

    The only weird thing is that Talisa looks Dornish now (maybe a sandsnake in disguise? hehehe, I’m sure that theory would have arised had she survived), but doesn’t really matter now does it? ;)

  • A bit too baby-faced for me, but nothing that some make-up cannot change on screen.
    I’ll hold my judgment on future dornish characters until I watch the upcoming seasons, but I truly hope that HBO will seize the opportunity to better represent a wide range of ethnicities. And yes, middle-eastern and indian actors would be welcome for a change!

  • Hey I know a good way to save some money to cast a more famous actor….
    Let’s fire Nina Gold and instead make a poll on WiC and Westeros to see who we need to cast!!!!!

    And cast me as Ellaria Sand because I look like her even though I can not even act in a childrens’ play. I wiil send a picture…

    GOT is No1 TV show right now. EVERYBODY wants to be in it. That means for a big role like Oberyn the line for the auditions would be counted in km. With people of ALL colors. And that guy beat them all. So I want to see how he plays the swagger of the red viper. GIVE HIM A CHANCE.

    I always pictured Oberyn like Olivier Martinez. But in my mind it had the swagger described in the books. That doesn’t mean this actor actually has it in real life. So I trust them to cast anyone who has that special way of carrying themselves (because this is more rare to find than looks) even if he doesn’t ‘look’ like the Oberyn in our imagination….

  • Very happy with casting and fact they went Dornish are Spaniards route. And POC crowd can be happy too since he is latino. It should be win-win for all, no idea why is here still so much complaining. Ofcourse i predict if Nina cast spanish actors for Doran or Arianne, perfectly in synch with this guy and books, another shitstorm will be created.

    I mean really, how could socially progressive and openly promiscuous Dornish resemble Arabs? Also Indian actors would look out of place as Westerosi, especially since many characters from Essos (Ilyrio, Varys, Kraznys, Mellisandre, Thoros, Dario) are completely white.

  • We now know that Matt Smith is an awesome Doctor and if anything, has surpassed Tennant.

    Wouldnt say that, but I see your point ! Matt Smith was grandiose !

    Let’s hope Pedro Pascal will be amazing as well as the Red Viper.

  • eetrebor,
    I agree, it would not make sense for the Daynes or, to a lesser extent, the Yronwoods to have non-British accents because geographically they are literally on the border with the Reach and the rest of Westeros. As for the Martells, however, it does make sense because they are on the far end of the peninsular, and given how independent Dorne was (and still is, to some extent) they would not have had much interaction with the rest of the Seven Kingdoms. It only makes sense that over the thousands of years that they have been separate and independent that they would have developed a vastly different accent (and in this case, a non-British accent).

    sunaeryn,
    What is his character like in The Good Wife? I haven’t seen the show, but perhaps that character he plays isn’t supposed to have charisma or gravitas. Not everyone on this earth has charisma, and so it would be stupid if every character on tv did.

  • Pau Soriano,

    I always felt Talisa was based Nymeria Sand personality and appearance wise than she was based on Jeyne Westerling!
    – Daughter of a noblewoman from Volantis. Check
    – Black hair pulled back in a braid, high cheekbones, full lips and dark eyes. Check
    – Extremely skilled with blades. Check.
    – Talks about watching siblings play in something not dissimilar from water gardens…..
    Oona is even about the right age is we age up the role as the series does in the majority of cases.

    I wondered (still do) if Talisa was an homage to Lady Nym because the role of Nymeria was going to be cut from the series….. Even if Nymeria Sand does make the show I bet a name change is in order since the show already has/ had a Nymeria.

  • All those proclaiming how he’s perfect and all us critics will be eating our words in a year have about as much context for their opinions as the rest of us. There’s nothing to suggest that their first impressions are any more valid than the critics’, so maybe some of those high-horse riders can get back down to ground level and seriously consider WHY many of us have reservations.

    For all the talk about this show’s “perfect casting”, I’ll counter that there have been several less than great casting choices. Interesting to note that almost all of them have fallen in the youngish male range, into which this guy falls. Off the top of my head:

    Jon Snow (kind of fits the character but that doesn’t make his scenes any less of a drag)
    Loras (just a mediocre actor)
    Renly (yes, they went in a different direction with TV Renly but the charisma was lacking)
    Daario (another character who’s supposed to be charismatic but comes across as forced and rather bland)

    With this in mind , none of the clips or visuals of this guy suggest he’s right for the role of a Moorish-flavoured character who radiates charisma and sensuality (as well as someone who looks old enough to have fathered several adult daughters). I suspect another misfire.

    Regarding whitewashing, my concerns can be summed up in the following points:

    -Moorish Spain is a different beast to modern Spain and there would be a heavy North African influence, particularly the sandy Dornishmen who would be analogous to mixed race white/Arabs.

    -Dorne needs to be visually and culturally distinct from the already Mediterranean-flavoured TV version of King’s Landing.

    – The show could really benefit from some diverse casting after that Mhysa mess and the general orientalist overtones of the Essos storylines.

    -Chilean/Latino is not an ethnicity so this casting does not win diversity brownie points when Pascal is plainly either white or a white-passing Latino.

  • Ser Tahu,

    It would make sense for the Daynes and Yronwoods to speak very different languages from the Reach though. Compare Breton with French or Welsh with English or Catalan (or worse, Basque) with Castilian Spanish. That is more than mere accent differences, all within countries that are much smaller than Westeros. What does not make sense is that all of the Seven Kingdoms speak the same language at all (even beyond the wall) given the size of the continent. But I get why G.R.R.M didn’t want to bother to make that a factor. It would have hampered the storytelling quite a bit.

  • Not my ideal Oberyn, but I’m looking forward to see him in action with costume and makeup. I’m also happy to see that they are going to be open with his sexuality as D&D’s quote suggests.  

  • HBO casts Moroccans as Ghiscari – Racist

    HBO casts South Americans as Dornish – Racist

    With all due respect: Fuck off.

  • Sansa’s Lemoncakes: With this in mind , none of the clips or visuals of this guy suggest he’s right for the role of a Moorish-flavoured character who radiates charisma and sensuality

    That’s what acting is, you know: pretending to be someone that you’re not in real life.

    Your comment is pretty much the same as saying “I saw Heath Ledger in Brokeback Mountain, and NOTHING suggests that he’s right for the role of a crazy psychopath.. hence why he’s totally wrong for the role of the Joker.”

    You don’t like the choice? Big deal. Just give the guy, and Nina Gold and everyone involved in the production of GOT the benefits of the doubt. They certainly deserve that.

  • Does this mean the Martells are going to be Hispanic? Good choice, I always pictured them with the Mediterranean look.

  • babar: That’s what acting is, you know: pretending to be someone that you’re not in real life.

    Your comment is pretty much the same as saying “I saw Heath Ledger in Brokeback Mountain, and NOTHING suggests that he’s right for the role of a crazy psychopath.. hence why he’s totally wrong for the role of the Joker.”

    ^This. All of This.

  • So, who will be cast next? I’m betting on the Magnar of Thenn and that audition video suggests we may see it soon, maybe before Comic Con- where the rest of the big names will be revealed. If Arianne is coming this season (which seems less likely every day) we’re bound to find out at Comic Con, if not we’ll see Ellaria Sand.

  • Eljuma:
    HBO casts Moroccans as Ghiscari – Racist

    HBO casts South Americans as Dornish – Racist

    With all due respect: Fuck off.

    babar: That’s what acting is, you know: pretending to be someone that you’re not in real life.

    Your comment is pretty much the same as saying “I saw Heath Ledger in Brokeback Mountain, and NOTHING suggests that he’s right for the role of a crazy psychopath.. hence why he’s totally wrong for the role of the Joker.”

    You don’t like the choice? Big deal. Just give the guy, and Nina Gold and everyone involved in the production of GOT the benefits of the doubt. They certainly deserve that.

    +1 to both of you.

  • Isn’t this what makes the show so great? Nina Gold and the rest picking relatively unknown but talented actors for roles like this? Even the “bigger” names are unfamiliar to the majority of fans. I’m terribly happy they didn’t go for an A-lister (Antonio Banderas, really?).

    I remember all the mixed reactions here and on Westeros when Ed Skrein was announced as Daario. The same people who were negative to him being cast turned positive when he first appeared and had some lines.

    I think people need to calm down and wait to see him in season 4 next year.

  • quadurp:
    What the hell HBO or whoever decided this? I thought the Martells were dark-skinned like some African-Americans. Well, I shouldn’t be surprised of this white washing but I just had my hopes up.

    I guess you haven’t read the books. You do realise that the Targaryens married several Martell women during the history, which means that Daenerys has Martell ancestors – and she is obviously not black or brown. And neither is Aegon, who is half-Martell.

  • Sansa’s Lemoncakes: Chilean/Latino is not an ethnicity so this casting does not win diversity brownie points when Pascal is plainly either white or a white-passing Latino.

    You sound very Americacentric. There are more ethnicities in the world than those used by US census.

  • babar,

    Tell me more about this profession you call acting…

    My point was that he lacks charisma in the clips. That’s not a quality every actor has or can necessarily manufacture. Case in point: the examples I gave of actors in this very show who aren’t necessarily bad actors but fail to convey the magnetism their characters are supposed to have. It’s a quality that’s (mostly) separate from acting skills.

    At any rate, I provided several other reasons in my overly wordy post why I didn’t like the casting beyond my initial impressions of Pascal. People are justifying the whitewashing with “Well, he’s probably an amazing actor so we/tumblr/whoever must just stop complaining,” but the onus then to prove why this guy is so much more better for the part than a charismatic POC who would be visually much more suited to the role.

    As much as I enjoy GoT, it isn’t perfect and us fans have every right to give and withhold the benefit of the doubt as we see fit. With regards to their handling of cast diversity and orientalism, they do not have a good track record. So no, I’m not just going to divorce this casting from its wider context and wait and see before I put my 2cents in along with the rest of GoT fandom.

  • Virtus,

    Not remotely American, dude. And Chilean is not an ethnicity, as evidenced by the fact that there are white South Americans alongside mestizos. Gisele Bundchen isn’t exactly the same ethnicity as Ronaldo, and they’re both Brazilian as all hell.

  • A lot of people here are whining but some like Sansa’s Lemoncakes are making rational (if a tad mean spirited) reservations about the casting. I am sure that IF Pedro knocks it out of the park the majority of them will not be hesitant to take back what they said. It’s the Internet, home of the knee jerk reaction. I was skeptical when Heath was cast as the Joker but he blew me away. As for the work I’ve seen Pedro in, not much charisma but it takes a certain role to bring out something in an actor they normally don’t give out in their performances. David and Dan said the audition was excellent and while there is evidence that may cause some to doubt their opinion, that is something that could easily backfire on them. Haters are going to hate, but they can change their minds too. What does it matter if their first impressions are negative when the end result is quite the opposite?

  • tysnow,

    You must have not read the quote. He explicitly says 80 episodes. To think any more than that is only wishful thinking and nothing more. D&D have the best estimation of this show, not only because they’re the ones actually making the show, but they are also know how things are going to go down in the last 2 books. I think everyone ignoring these facts is only distracting from the reality that this show is going to cut ALOT of plotlines and characters moving forward. They must do that for the adaptation, the only question now is how.

  • Yeah I think he’ll work, looks wise give him a beard and some long hair for sure. Everyone who is complaining, have a little faith! As many have stated, Nina Gold deserves nothing but our trust at this point!

  • loco73: Oh lord…..

    I laughed at that video too, but I have since been told that he is likely auditioning for a stage role in that video. In other words, he is likely overacting on purpose. Towards the end of the video (around 3:26) he’s more red viper-y. I think he’s hamming it up because you have to in stage, so the people in the back can enjoy it too.

    It’s been said he’s either auditioning for this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Celestina or this
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L'Illusion_Comique

  • Virtus: You sound very Americacentric. There are more ethnicities in the world than those used by US census.

    BAM. That was checkmate. Poor Ms Lemoncakes. When you play the game of thrones you win or you die, there is no middle ground.

  • I don’t understand why people should be worried about getting “diversity brownie points” at all anyway. I also really enjoy the cutesy patronizing condescending term “POC” that self loathing, guilty white people have adopted for their poor, unfortunate, utterly helpless without the aid of magnanimous white people little friends.

    I also enjoy that people are complaining about the kinds of Dornishmen and how Oberyn should look like one type, completely disregarding the fact that he’s specifically mentioned as being one of the OTHER types, the kind with olive skin, dark hair, and dark eyes.

    HOW in the world can people not understand that it’s WAY more racist to go “Well these minorities will never accomplish anything on their own if I, the benevolent white man, don’t hand them opportunities at every turn, deserved or not,” than to say “I will give this opportunity to the person who deserves it most, regardless of their race or ethnicity?”

  • I still think Naveen Andrews would have been great in the part (and to the haters : he’s a good actor, deal with it), but I assume he was too expansive. But hey, more money for the Blackwater-like battle at the wall in episode 9, with CGI mammoths and giants ? Hell yeah.

  • I saw Bryan Cranston in Malcolm in the Middle and there is no way he can pull of a serious dramatic role like a badass drug dealer.

  • Surprised they didn’t get a big name actor for this part, hopefully that means this guy was just so good in his audition that they didn’t care about big actors.

    Everything looks Good to me anyway, he doesn’t look exactly as I pictured but either do most of the other characters, he looks a little young but I’m excited to see what he does with the role, Can’t wait to see him in costume and in character.

    Anyone know how tall he is?

  • Bryan Cogman, check out the thread on r/asoiaf for some more positive / reasonable reactions.

    I know it would be easy to come away from this situation with the viewpoint that it’s not even worth trying to please the crazy and irrational “fans.” I’d urge you not to paint everyone with a broad brush. We all might have occasional criticisms, but lots of us want you to pick the best person for the role and are really looking forward to seeing what Pedro will do.

  • Nick_Scryer,
    Based on how tall he is compared to other actors in Graceland, my estimate is about 1.75-180.

    Also, to the people saying he isn’t dark enough and that dark skinned people are under-represented on the show: I think he isn’t light enough, Albino people are definitely under-represented on the show and the fact that they didn’t cast Oberyn as Albino despite the fact that he isn’t described as that in the books makes the producers racist. :P

    Bryan Cogman,
    Sorry on behalf of the internet, Bryan. As far as appearance is concerned he matches the books almost perfectly, and I’m sure that he blew you guys away in the audition :P.

  • Turncloak,

    haltwhogoesthere,

    LOL…don’t worry! I did not make that post to be an ass. I’m not going to freak out and go on an overly long rant…

    By the way, thank you for being nice enough to reply to my all too brief comment! I’ve been coming to this site and posting since either 2008 or 2009…man I can’t remember exactly…how time passes! The really fun part is to interact with other fans, such as yourselves,
    and get their feedback and advice, as in this case.

    My only regret is that I wish they had cast Alexander Siddig in the role of the Red Viper. I looked at some of his stills from “Kingdom Of Heaven”and when all decked in his armour and attire, he really looks, at least to me, what I pictured the Red Viper will look like, never mind that he is a fantastic actor…look at some of his pics…what do you guys think?

    http://ca.ign.com/articles/2006/05/19/siddig-treks-to-nativity

    http://www.hollywood-elsewhere.com/images/column/111206/siddig2.jpg

    http://montages.no/files/2010/07/kingdom3.jpg

    http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsS/5204-26576.gif

    http://content9.flixster.com/photo/37/36/41/3736419_ori.jpg

    http://zakath-nath.joueb.com/images/salad3.jpg

    http://www.zuguide.com/image/Alexander-Siddig-Kingdom-of-Heaven.9.jpg

    I don’t know about you but he was my choice….however there is no way in he’ll I’m going to say anything derogatory, insult or ignorant about Pedro! I want to see him in his role as prince Oberyn Martel aka the Red Viper!

    Besides, confío en Nina Gold…or as we say, in Nina Gold I trust! I wish Pedro good luck, all the best, and welcome to the cast and the GoT fandom

  • Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Pau Soriano,

    Maybe it’s because I’m American, but I don’t see Latino as ‘white’.

    You’d think being American and surrounded by “Latinos” that you’d know a large number of them are “white”. You know, because the Spanish language was brought over to Latin America via Europeans.

  • The Red Viper never wore a blue collared shirt or a black vest with so many pouches in the book!

  • Bryan Cogman,

    I would like to add my voice to apologise for some of the nonsense coming from some people posting some of the brainfarts they think of as insightful comments.

    Sorry Mr Cogman…don’t think less of the rest of us….

  • Ser Tahu,

    1.80 according to his IMDb resume, but agents like to a couple of cm to their clients, so something like 177-178 might be more accurate.

  • Man, I thought I was putting forward reasoned (even if many people don’t agree with the reasoning) opinions, but I got wowed by Bryan Cogman? Ouch, man.

    Not apologising for the wow-worthy comment though. Colorism exists and people who “pass” do reap the sociological benefits of looking like the majority. Attacking institutional racism here, not the individuals who indirectly benefit.

    Ah well, said my piece and more importantly gave my reasons why I thought so. Y’all can disagree, call me a butthurt fan (or an American!), but maybe take a few seconds to look deeply at WHY a lot of other people are disappointed before dismissing anyone who voices criticism about this casting choice as cartoonish internet trolls or hysterical SJWs.

    Peace out, guys.

  • Gatorfisch:
    SerCountryFriedSteak,

    How much darker would he need to be to satisfy you?He is a POC…

    No he’s NOT a POC…he is white. Being Latino is NOT a race, it’s a ethnicity. It’s not the same. There are black, white, asian latinos

    And spanish are NOT latino. Latinos are in america, Spain is in Europe. Spanish are Hispanic, wich means they speack spanish.

    But ethnicity doesn’t matter a bit in the casting, only race, because u don’t bring your ethnicity to the show, only your race (and your accent…but that you can change as we’ve seen).

    Regarding that, he is great for the part, both due to the race, and probably the accent, wich will be spanish. ;)

  • JRR Tzolkin: Actually, speaking Spanish does make you a Latino/a.

    In the dictionary of the Real Academia de la Lengua Española (the ultimate authority in the Spanish tongue) definition #7 of the word “Latino” estates that a Latino/a is:

    “Natural de los pueblos de Europa y América en que se hablan lenguas derivadas del latín.” (translation: Native of European and American nations where tongues derived from Latin are spoken). You can find the original here: http://lema.rae.es/drae/?val=Latino

    This means anyone who speaks Spanish is Latino, regardless of the color of their skin…and French, Italian, Portuguese and Romanian, for that matter. Anyone born in a country where the native tongue derives from Latin is obviously a Latino.

    One thing Latino is not, however, is a race/ethnicity, as many posts here would seem to suggest. There’s not only plenty of white folk who are Latinos in Europe, but there’s many and more here in Latin America as well. Being one myself, I know this for a fact.

    That’s the definition in spanish!!! Latino in english is not the same than Latino in spanish!! Latino in english =Latinoamericano in spanish, or Latin-american in english. Americans shorten Latin-american to Latino.

    When an american says “this guy is Latino” he doesn’t mean “this guy is romanian” or “this guy is french”. He means “this guy is latin-american”

    You’re welcomed ;)

  • Pau Soriano,

    I don’t know about you, but he looks like he comes from Amerindian stock to me, at least partly. He doesn’t really look caucasian, despite being pale, at least to me anyway.

  • Mar,

    ¡Aquí hay otra chilena más!

    And yes, I find this discussion very weird. In Chile we don’t talk that much about races. There’s very few people of african or east asian heritage. The rest is a mix between spanish and native chilean, and more recent immigrations (s. XIX-XX) have added some drops of middle eastern, croatian, german, italian,etc.

    For instance, one of my best friends looks middle eastern, but also has croatian, french and russian blood (besides the spanish+native all chileans have). It never crossed my mind that someone could consider her of a different race than mine, until I met the internet.

    I think think all this “PoC” thing starts getting very useless once you get to places that have lots of immigration and mixing, and I always pictured Dorne to be like that.

    To me, Pedro Pascal looks like an average chilean guy.

  • A lot of weird ethnophilia going on here. People should go on national geographic or google, if they want to get their kicks by seeing darker colored people. Clearly Pedro isn’t doing it for them.

    Dorn is obviously Spain, just flip the ASOIAF map sideways and you’re looking at Europe as Westeros and Dorn in the location of Spain. They both hold a key location in connecting one continent to another, so choosing a latino to play the part makes perfect sense.

  • voiceareason,

    People are ripping me, but this is all I’m trying to say. I wouldn’t call him caucasian either. All I was trying to say is that he doesn’t look anything like the actors playing characters from the rest of Westeros.

  • Ignacia,

    America is largely enslaved by obscenely wealthy white plutocrats and their dark money schemes (not a racial phrase). They thrive on perpetuating the racial myth, primarily by manipulating their struggling brethren in the white underclasses and institutionalizing racism through the undermining of urban communities (See Philadelphia). It’s no wonder the peculiar language that includes “people of color” has survived to this day. I wonder how American English will change once Caucasians are no longer the majority. It’s bound to happen sooner or later.

    I didn’t realize the racial perspective wasn’t a thing in mixed populations until a Colombian friend explains Brazilian culture to me. We really should be referring more to ethnicity rather than “racial” differentiation. It really is insulting the more you think about it.

  • darquemode:
    Pau Soriano,

    I always felt Talisa was based Nymeria Sand personality and appearance wise than she was based on Jeyne Westerling!
    – Daughter of a noblewoman from Volantis. Check
    – Black hair pulled back in a braid, high cheekbones, full lips and dark eyes. Check
    – Extremely skilled with blades. Check.
    – Talks about watching siblings play in something not dissimilar from water gardens…..
    Oona is even about the right age is we age up the role as the series does in the majority of cases.

    I wondered (still do) if Talisa was an homage to Lady Nym because the role of Nymeria was going to be cut from the series….. Even if Nymeria Sand does make the show I bet a name change is in order since the show already has/ had a Nymeria.

    Interesting idea, but I think Talisa looks much more like Lady Nym than Jeyne!! Wich gives your theory even more gravitas ;)

    http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/thumb/9/93/Lady_nym_by_quickreaver.jpg/250px-Lady_nym_by_quickreaver.jpg

    http://images.wikia.com/hieloyfuego/images/5/59/Jeyne_Westerling_by_Amoka.jpg

  • Jentario: 8 would be ideal if George finishes the series in time.

    Can’t say much about the tail end of the series, but I still sincerely hope they condense Books 4 & 5 into roughly a reason. GRRM seems awful sure those books will but him plenty of time to stay ahead of the show. I say they won’t, so long as D&D and Co. strive to deliver the best show possible.

    I know, I’m butthurt over ADWD overall. It’s ridiculous. :P

  • Bryan Cogman:
    “clearly a white-passing Latino”.

    I’ll say it again, folks. Wow.

    I hope you’re not just taking the river of garbage to heart, Bryan. It’s pretty unhealthy, vocal minority and all (ha! pun…). I can’t wait to see what you guys saw in Pascal onscreen.

  • Sansa’s Lemoncakes,

    Speaking for myself, I just want the producers to cast the best Oberyn they can find. I am sure they auditioned many people with various skin tones, and they concluded that Pascal gave the best performance of the lot.

    And I think it’s a bit ridiculous for some fans to create a color-test for this character of a fictional ethnicity. For instance, you keep using the word “Moorish” and saying you’re disappointed that they didn’t cast someone “Moorish.” But obviously the word “Moorish” never appears in the books and is solely certain fans’ interpretation of what Dornish must look like. In the books Oberyn has “olive” skin, not “dark” skin. Pascal in the picture above looks to me like a “light olive” rather than a “medium olive” or “dark olive.” He certainly doesn’t look British or Irish, which is the main point in setting the Dornish apart. Should they have gone for a darker shade of olive from an actor whose performance they didn’t like as much?

    I think the people who use these melanin litmus tests should just take a deep breath and realize that GOT is not intended to be a ground-breaking show for “POC” on television and never will be. Regardless of Oberyn’s casting, it remains a show about a medieval kingdom modeled on historical Britain and cast with almost entirely British and Irish actors. And as you can tell from Cogman’s reactions, the hissy-fits thrown by some on this topic are just making people who care about this appear ridiculous to those people involved in the production and are actually probably making their goals for “POC” representation LESS likely to be achieved.

  • WompWomp: Can’t say much about the tail end of the series, but I still sincerely hope they condense Books 4 & 5 into roughly a reason. GRRM seems awful sure those books will but him plenty of time to stay ahead of the show. I say they won’t, so long as D&D and Co. strive to deliver the best show possible.

    I know, I’m butthurt over ADWD overall. It’s ridiculous. :P

    I liked ADWD. The only issue I had with it was that it ended in a series of cliffhangers just before everything got interesting and killed the overall arc of the book which was mostly setting up to the events that were pushed forward from it. It’s as if GRRM took a pair of scissors and cut the book’s episodes 9 &10 (to compare with the show) but it was still a great book overall and miles ahead of AFFC in my opinion.

    OT: They will not make 1 season out of ADWD & AFFC, they’ll probably make it 1.5 with the second half occupying what is bound to be the very eventful first quarter of TWOW. It is impossible to rush through this material, even if season 5 will suffer. Unless they cut a very significant number of storylines, it can’t be done and doing that would make the season miss the books’ positives along with their negatives. 1.5 seasons is optimal because it allows the plot to breathe and not be a complete mess without deviating significantly.

  • Sansa’s Lemoncakes,

    Personally, I love this thread. Damn, ASoI&F fans are so passionate and polarized about how their favorite characters and plotlines are conveyed onscreen! Regarding the casting and scripting choices, Lincoln said it best:

    “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.

    No need to apologize to the Cogman. He probably understands this.

  • Why is this a shock to fans? Dorne actors were going to be played by Latino and Spanish actors. GRRM views Dorne as Spain. I thought this was pretty clear. Westeros = Medieval Europe. Its Dorne, part of Westeros. Not Sothoros. They always cast well, relax.

  • Ned,

    That’s not quite true. He has said that Dorne is a mix of Wales, Palestine, and the Moorish invasion of Spain. Modern Spain is not the same as the Moorish-settled-Spain in history. For starters, the Moors were a lot darker. So no, he didn’t base it on just plain “Spain,”and he’s never mentioned Latinos. That’s why the ethnicity and look of Dorne has been such a hot topic for such a long time among fans.

  • ygritte is far sooner

    Maybe not:

    It seems a bit redundant to have the raid on Castle Black. I think it’s more likely that Ygritte will live longer, will be our wildling POV during the main attack on the Wall, and will die there rather than in the earlier raid.

    The fact that they mentioned that there relationship with him is great, and said they had disagreements in every season they wrote tells me this isn’t something too major. Maybe they cut a character like, I don’t know, Ellaria Sand (that would totally fit the context, if you look at it again).

    Agreed – although we know Ellaria Sand is in as they’re casting her – but there does seem to be a fundamental disconnect between what D&D are saying – eight seasons, no D&E movies to tide things over, no putting the show on hold for two years, fewer characters than in the books, things reaching their greatest extent in Season 3/4 and contracting – and the things GRRM is saying: putting things on hold for two years if necessary, adapting ‘everything’ from AFFC/ADWD over two or three seasons, the series reaching its greatest extent in ADWD before contracting, the show lasting for maybe nine or ten seasons to fit everything in.

    Both of those statements cannot be true, and as D&D are the showrunners, clearly their vision for the show is what’s going to happen, and as GRRM has said, he “wouldn’t like it,” if they overtook him and finished first, which now appears probable.

  • Jentario: I liked ADWD. The only issue I had with it was that it ended in a series of cliffhangers just before everything got interesting and killed the overall arc of the book which was mostly setting up to the events that were pushed forward from it. It’s as if GRRM took a pair of scissors and cut the book’s episodes 9 &10 (to compare with the show) but it was still a great book overall and miles ahead of AFFC in my opinion.

    OT: They will not make 1 season out of ADWD & AFFC, they’ll probably make it 1.5 with the second half occupying what is bound to be the very eventful first quarter of TWOW. It is impossible to rush through this material, even if season 5 will suffer. Unless they cut a very significant number of storylines, it can’t be done and doing that would make the season miss the books’ positives along with their negatives. 1.5 seasons is optimal because it allows the plot to breathe and not be a complete mess without deviating significantly.

    I agree with this

  • Adam Whitehead,

    I am hoping that GRRM pulls out all the stops for TWoW and ADoS, starting with the 2-3 battles upfront in TWoW. I hope he fills the books with formidable sequences and events that will provide budget-busting mayhem for GoT and test the “unfilmable” paradigm that he originally articulated, which would force the show to follow precariously or go in a different direction.

    Every day that I don’t see a new “Not a Blog” entry by GRRM, I cheer….hopefully that means he channeled another 10 pages from mind to paper. Challenge them George and dream on!

    Books before film!

  • So I’ve extrapolated GRRM’s writing. From Jan 2012 to October of 2012 he wrote 400 pages of manuscript writing (with 200 considered completely finished). If it takes 1500 completed manuscript pages to complete a book than we can expect D&D to have about 840 pages of finished source material or about 56% of the completed book by the time they start filming season 6 in July of 2015. If the goal is to finish the series in 7 seasons then D&D will have to use material from the 1500 unfinished manuscript pages to shoot the rest of season 6. For season 7 the show will completely usurp the book, as GRRM will only just begin to start writing A Dream of Spring

  • You guys do know that medieval Spain, either from reconquista and colonial periods, is very similar to the rest of the Europe in it’s cultural, military, political, economic etc. sense?
    If we draw paralel lines to our own history, ASOIAF is set in the late medieval/rennasaince periods, and by that time Spain was totally in Christian control. Castles, churces, culture, dogmas, people etc. were nothing like the description of Dorne.
    If we assume that it’s based on earlier period Spain, deep in reconquista, still doesn’t add up, since then Dorne would then have to be seen as very backwards, insignificant area, out of everyone’s sight. And we know that’s as far from the thruth.
    If anything, Dorne is most similar to Abbasid/Mameluke/Persian late medieval periods of Middle East. Although there are still different parts of Dorne that are more similar to Southern European medieval periods, eg. Red Mountains, southwestern shores around Starfall and northern areas bordering Stormlands, where there is a much stronger influence from the rest of Westeros than from Dorne itself.
    With all that said (written?), this looks like miscast or a budgetary-wise casting, and it seems Red Viper’s role would be played down and shown as just another support role.
    Non existence of flashbacks to Robert’s Rebellion and seldom mentioning Gregor Clegane and Lannisters’ rampage in it supports that notion.

  • this has been the first time a comment section has made me not want to come back to this site… I really am amazed at some of the comments here.

  • db:
    So fucking disappointed.. how could they do this… fucking shameful

    Your comment is fucking shameful.

  • Turncloak:
    So I’ve extrapolated GRRM’s writing. From Jan 2012 to October of 2012 he wrote 400 pages of manuscript writing (with 200 considered completely finished). If it takes 1500 completed manuscript pages to complete a book than we can expect D&D to have about 840 pages of finished source material or about 56% of the completed book by the time they start filming season 6 in July of 2015. If the goal is to finish the series in 7 seasons then D&D will have to use material from the 1500 unfinished manuscript pages to shoot the rest of season 6. For season 7 the show will completely usurp the book, as GRRM will only just begin to start writing A Dream of Spring

    I doubt that GRRM has a set pace. If he really wanted to, he would sit down and write and he can easily finish TWOW by this time next year if he sets his priorities straight. But so far he hasn’t set his priorities straight. Hopefully the fact that he has pretty much gone off grid now means he’s writing a lot.

  • Turncloak,

    Don’t extrapolate based on current figures. Martin is under vastly different pressures to work on it than in the past. I am pretty confident some time before next summer he’ll be on an extended retreat with helpers and resources with the sole purpose of pumping pages out. My prediction is publication date of March 2015 in advance of Season 5; especially given that HBO numbers will probably start leveling off a bit during Season 4. The book and series will generate much hype for one another.

    Of course, I’ve been wrong before. I was sure that Talisa was a Lannister spy.

  • jasonw:
    this has been the first time a comment section has made me not want to come back to this site… I really am amazed at some of the comments here.

    I’ve seen much worse threads on here than this, and we always return to more collegial discussion. Don’t give up so readily.

  • I’m just happy Nina Gold is European, so she’s not stuck in the racist American mindset of stereotyping people based on their race and ethnicity.

    WiC.net also bears responsibility for this shit storm since they hosted that incredibly offensive round table discussion a few weeks ago where they basically called the GoT producers “racists” .

  • Lord_Grimjaur:
    You guys do know that medieval Spain, either from reconquista and colonial periods, is very similar to the rest of the Europe in it’s cultural, military, political, economic etc. sense?
    If we draw paralel lines to our own history, ASOIAF is set in the late medieval/rennasaince periods, and by that time Spain was totally in Christian control. Castles, churces, culture, dogmas, people etc. were nothing like the description of Dorne.
    If we assume that it’s based on earlier period Spain, deep in reconquista, still doesn’t add up, since then Dorne would then have to be seen as very backwards, insignificant area, out of everyone’s sight. And we know that’s as far from the thruth.
    If anything, Dorne is most similar to Abbasid/Mameluke/Persian late medieval periods of Middle East. Although there are still different parts of Dorne that are more similar to Southern European medieval periods, eg. Red Mountains, southwestern shores around Starfall and northern areas bordering Stormlands, where there is a much stronger influence from the rest of Westeros than from Dorne itself.
    With all that said (written?), this looks like miscast or a budgetary-wise casting, and it seems Red Viper’s role would be played down and shown as just another support role.
    Non existence of flashbacks to Robert’s Rebellion and seldom mentioning Gregor Clegane and Lannisters’ rampage in it supports that notion.

    It’s based loosely on moorish spain because the Rhoyne invaded the dornish andals the same way that the moors invaded the iberian peninsula, the water gardens=Alhambra, the sand dunes resemble northern africa, were the berebers came form etc…is that so hard to understand?? don’t read more into it, Martin surely didn’t -.-

  • Hodor’s Bastard:
    Turncloak,

    Pessimist! I curse you, monster! Lies…all lies!

    Mother of Dragons slayer of lies! I just don’t see GRRM outpacing the show. At best I can see the Winds of Winter being released in March of 2016, 1 month prior to the airing of season 6. Which isn’t unheard of, that’s a 5 year gap from the release of his last book. ADWD was a 6 year gap from the release of AFFC if you recall

  • john,

    The Importance of Dorne Part 2 roundtable was very disturbing. Especially the comments from Rachel. But that’s in the past, so I moved on

  • john:

    WiC.net also bears responsibility for this shit storm since they hosted that incredibly offensive round table discussion a few weeks ago where they basically called the GoT producers “racists” .

    This is why I’m not at all surprised by the thread. It was clear from that roundtable that the Dorne casting was going to be a complete shit storm, no matter what.

    What I don’t understand is this: weren’t tons of people hoping for James Purefoy?? He is completely white. What would the reaction have been then?

  • I’m really shocked that people are so shocked over the comments section. The Dornish have always been the most speculated about in terms of appearance since so much of who they look like is up for debate. Add to the fact that Oberyn is one of the most memorable characters in ASOIAF, whoever was cast to play him was going to drum up alot of discussion. The fact that his appearance does not match many people’s visualization of what the viper looks like will only add to the furor. Also, people can’t exactly talk about his acting since he is relatively unknown actor who we’ve never seen before, the only thing we can judge him by at this early stage is his appearance.

  • john: WiC.net also bears responsibility for this shit storm since they hosted that incredibly offensive round table discussion a few weeks ago where they basically called the GoT producers “racists” .

    Controversy over appropriate race and castings has existed for pretty much always. It doesn’t fail to exist or disappear just because you want it to or have your head stuck in the sand. People have been debating the ethnicity or race of the Martells for years. It was much better to address it in a mature fashion than pretend it didn’t exist. This storm is no surprise. People will survive, they always do.

  • Turncloak,

    The 11 year pit between ASoS and AFoC/ADwD was pure torture….”Never more! Never more!”

    Can you imagine the various incentives that HBO or Bantam might be offering GRRM to stay ahead of the TV show? Perhaps they will rent Dragonstone for him, or offer fish massages while he writes, or maybe they’ll procure that infamous painting “Mary Untier of Knots” by Schmidtner (1700) for him to reflect upon as he pounds those keys!

  • If GRRM really wants to hold on to his baby, a comprise that can be reached is have The Cogman and D&D write the first 4 episodes of season 7, and then have GRRM write the final 6, so in the end it’s GRRM thats telling us the ending, this time in a script rather than from a book

  • Pau Soriano: That’s the definition in spanish!!! Latino in english is not the same than Latino inspanish!! Latino in english =Latinoamericano in spanish, or Latin-american in english. Americans shorten Latin-american to Latino.

    When an american says “this guy is Latino” he doesn’t mean “this guy is romanian” or “this guy is french”. He means “this guy is latin-american”

    You’re welcomed ;)

    Oh yes, I know this all too well, believe me. Doesn’t make it right, though.

    Take the French “restaurant” or “garage”, for instance. If I saw someone calling a pub a “restaurant” or an attic a “garage”, I would try to help them see that they are wrong. The same goes for Latino. Since the word stems from Spanish, the correct meaning of the word is the Spanish one. Simple as that.

    This misinterpretation of the word Latino, I believe, is precisely the reason why so many folk here are complaining that Mr. Pedro Pascal is “too white” for the role of Oberyn Martell. I assume they wouldn’t know that, today, countries like Argentina and Chile are “whiter” in proportion than the U.S. or even some European countries, but that’s a fact. And those two nations are Latin American countries, nonetheless.

    So, if GRRM did describe the Martells in a way that they may be perceived as Latinos by so many readers, then I’m sure he did it based in the correct, general meaning of the term Latino and not based on the way it is understood by a few folk, regardless of country and cultural perception.

    You’re also most welcome.

  • Ours is the Fury: Controversy over appropriate race and castings has existed for pretty much always. It doesn’t fail to exist or disappear just because you want it to or have your head stuck in the sand. People have been debating the ethnicity or race of the Martells for years. It was much better to address it in a mature fashion than pretend it didn’t exist. This storm is no surprise. People will survive, they always do.

    And, people opposed to the casting on some ground or another will either be shocked and blown away by Pascal’s performance, a good possibility given D&D’s own assessment of his abilities, or they’ll be self-justified by his mediocre acting and rag on about it. Either way, the show will go on.

  • quadurp:
    Lia,

    Last time i checked olives were black. http://i.imgur.com/AyagN38.jpg I know there are green olives also but I doubt that the Dornish are related to the Hulk.

    Last time I checked, and I actually eat olives, olives come in a variety of colors. Also, last time I checked, the word “olive” refers to a color directly, much in the same way that “orange” is both a fruit and a color, and the last time I checked it was widely-known that “olive-skinned” refers to something closer to that color, and a quick Google image search backs me up.

    Why am I even participating in this thread? -_-

    I’m sure the casting will be fine. Nina Gold and the rest have done a superlative job so far; maybe not perfect in everyone’s eyes, but certainly well above what might have been expected. I have no complaints.

  • B Cogman,

    He said “wow” like he’s surprised some of us were expecting a POC to be cast… lmfao i can’t with these writers like how can you be so displaced from reality, you’re basically floating in the abyss with a white oberyn meanwhile back on planet earth oberyn is so obviously a brown character. (also cackling forever at those who try to make him sound whiter than he’s described.. just stfu already, grrm said himself janina gavankar looks dornish so gtfo)

  • Also let’s not try to describe people’s skin tones with food.. just because GRRM did it, doesn’t make it acceptable.

  • I think db is being facetious. At least I hope so. If not, then he is taking this shit way too seriously.

  • Jentario,

    That’s the core of my beef with ADWD, aside from the many, many storylines, old and new, with no satisfying progress. It just doesn’t have the same major story beats the other books had despite its tremendous page count. Not that the show revolves around my expectations (the creators owe me nothing), but I dread seeing a season end in the middle of the AFFC/ADWD timeline. :|

  • This thread just jumped a whole load of sharks.

    Seriously though, it’s sort of off-putting that folk can or won’t discuss any of this in a civil manner, and some of the racial and ethnic statements that are being banded about are sort of disturbing. You have to realise it’s daft when other South Americans and I-won’t-say-that-silly-acronym are shrugging their shoulders at the reactions of their fellow fans. It’s like a hive of Rachels in here.

    Gonna focus on the actor and his chops. Nothing else. Book readers expect the showrunners to reach into their heads and procure whatever they imagined whilst reading, nuances and all. Some people only want the show to revolve around their own wants, and not the needs of the production or other fans.

  • WompWomp,

    What do you think episode 9 of season 5 will be? I’m guessing Jon Snow’s Death, and episode 10 will be Dany riding her Dragon for the first time I see them doing books 4 and 5 in one season and trimming the fat with a Bolton flaying knife

  • Why is everyone apologizing to Brian ? if anyone deserved an apology it’s perhaps Nina Gold for second guessing her ability to cast characters.

    Brian chooses to visit a site that’s dedicated to GOT and ASOIF, he should know there’s going to passionate reactions to decisions regarding the show around here.

  • Do I need to remind people of the name-calling and personal attacks rules again already?

  • You know what is off-putting all the negativity I am seeing in this thread towards Rachel on here. ” A hive of Rachels”, shame on those fans who feel the need to bash another fan because you don’t agree with their opinion.

  • Al Swearengen,

    I’m sure people are including everyone involved with the show in their apologies for how crazy this fandom can get. Since Bryan is the only one that we know of who sometimes posts in these threads, the messages are directed towards him.

  • Jess,

    Two mentions of Rachel in 600+ comments really constitutes a disturbing amount of hate directed at her by the fandom? Bit dramatic, don’t you think?

  • Does anybody know how tall the guy is? As I said above, I was hoping for Antonio Banderas in a cameo role, but I trust in Nina Gold and D&D, so I think he’ll be fine. I’m hoping they do his into to Tyrion similar to the book (his initial talk with Tyrion, I mean)

    I did see one picture of him looking barely taller than a 5’6″ actress. However, the actress could have had on heels/platforms as well.

  • db:
    B Cogman,

    He said “wow” like he’s surprised some of us were expecting a POC to be cast… lmfao i can’t with these writers like how can you be so displaced from reality, you’re basically floating in the abyss with a white oberyn meanwhile back on planet earth oberyn is so obviously a brown character. (also cackling forever at those who try to make him sound whiter than he’s described.. just stfu already, grrm said himself janina gavankar looks dornish so gtfo)

    A Person of Color was cast. The guy is obviously Hispanic. Not only black people are POCs…and newsflash…even within the “black” spectrum, there are all sorts of skin tones…I am amazed and ashamed of all the ignorance I am reading on this site.

  • Well he certainly looks good to me. Possibly a bit young to have three adult daughters, but didn”t he start at 14 or so? If the youngest of the four is around 20 he could easily be a young looking 40, which this guy looks like he might be.

    I haven’t seen any of his acting or videos, but I generally trust in Nina Gold. She knows her stuff, and everyone knows how important it is to get this character right.

  • Jess:
    You know what is off-putting all the negativity I am seeing in this thread towards Rachel on here. ” A hive of Rachels”, shame on those fans who feel the need to bash another fan because you don’t agree with their opinion.

    Andrew:
    Jess,

    Two mentions of Rachel in 600+ comments really constitutes a disturbing amount of hate directed at her by the fandom? Bit dramatic, don’t you think?

    ^ Thank you.

    Rachel’s reasoning in the Dorne article, and her insinuations that the showrunners are either racists or ignorant racists, is the barometer by which most of the likewise histrionics in here are being judged. Nobody’s bashed her as a person, they find her opinion (which she’s allowed to have) ridiculous.

    It’s the least worrying thing in this entire thread, and I think your distress is misplaced… unless you’re the lady herself, in which case: you will be judged on your opinion. That’s how it flows. I’m sure we’d probably have a laugh about this in real-life.

    A decent conversation is out of the question for this thread. I’m hoping for some non-booker reader articles; those guys aren’t bogged down by half of the silliness in the other threads.

  • Rachel agreed with everyone else on the panel, and I agreed with her as well. For some reason, the people who did not want a non-white Oberyn in comments chose Rachel to hate on the most. Maybe because she’s a white woman and therefore thought to be a safer target? Not sure. But her “controversial opinions” were the same as everyone’s on the panel. Including mine in week one, when I was on the panel.

    Oh, and Pascal is 5’11” according to his official resume for whomever is asking.

    Gatorfisch,

    You can be white and Latino. It’s a complicated issue. “Hispanic” just means he speaks Spanish, being Chilean. (Although he’s actually American. His family is from Chile.)

    I have no idea what Pedro Pascal self-identifies as, ethnically/racially, for the record.

  • quadurp:
    What the hell HBO or whoever decided this? I thought the Martells were dark-skinned like some African-Americans. Well, I shouldn’t be surprised of this white washing but I just had my hopes up.

    You and I must have read different books, then. I got the Hispanic/Mediterranean/Middle Eastern vibe….The Summer Islanders are the most African-like.

  • Ours is the Fury,

    Having grown up in Florida, I am well aware of how diverse the Latino community can be. Looking at him, he has all the features of someone with, at least some “native” Chilean heritage. In earlier posts, I even pointed out that there is immense diversity within specific ethnicities.

  • Ours is the Fury:
    For some reason, the people who did not want a non-white Oberyn in comments chose Rachel to hate on the most.

    No, the people who disagreed with Rachel, or the panel, are not to be conflated with folk who wanted a white-only Oberyn (do these people exist? Are there fans out there who say Oberyn shouldn’t have dark skin?) Most of them wanted the focus to be on an actor with chops. That doesn’t mean they were against the idea of a dark skinned Oberyn. Skin colour is a secondary issue for them, if an issue at all. Personally, I don’t see the colour of a person’s skin, I see their acting ability. And I’m not the sort of poster who will use their own skin colour, or the skin colour of other posters, to make a point. That sounds unhealthy and disingenuous either way.

    She’s been singled out (what, twice?) for a comment like: “I found that scene with Dany to be so heavy handed and unaware of the imagery that I almost couldn’t believe it. Is it actually possible that everyone involved in making that scene happen did so without a thought to how imperialistic and racist it was?”

    Now, I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt for adding: “Maybe this is a critique of Dany’s own storyline that will be more fully revealed in future seasons as we all know.” But I still think she';s massively projecting.

    Obviously we’re going to butt heads further on the issue, and that’s not what I come here for at all. So, adieu, in regards to that subject.

  • I do think the round table bears some responsibility for this thread. Even if the debate surrounding Dornish ethnicity already existed on the internet, the round table made it a far more prominent issue right here on this site. The casting announcement, following so shortly on the round table’s heels, is definitely being affected by that.

    Also, I think people took issue with Rachel’s tone more than anything else. The Thoros comment, in particular, made me cringe a bit. And it had nothing to do with my opinions on Dornish race. I’m not trying to attack her, just stating an opinion.

    Aaaaaanyways, I VOTE FOR PEDRO.

  • Lex,

    Vote for Pedro! And I agree about her tone and specific comments. Whatever, that’s old news now

  • Gatorfisch: You and I must have read different books, then.I got the Hispanic/Mediterranean/Middle Eastern vibe….The Summer Islanders are the most African-like.

    This. Only specific Sand Snakes are supposed to be black. The rest of the Martells are “olive skinned” (search for it in Googld images if you aren’t sure what it means) which can be accurately portrayed through Pascal.

    People are ripping on Pascal even though he has the potential to fit the book’s description. I’m willing to bet that in-costume and make up, he will look “olive” enough.

  • B Cogman:
    Wow.

    Can only speak for myself, but I’ll see your shock and dismay and raise you my keen disappointment at this casting choice.

    I take this depigmentation of Oberyn (Martells?) add to it the final Mhysa scene of S3 and I get a severe let down as a result. Wow indeed.

  • I take this depigmentation of Oberyn (Martells?) add to it the final Mhysa scene of S3 and I get a sever let down as a result. Wow indeed.

    So depigmentation is a thing now?

  • Lex: Ouch! Was your letdown completely severed? Or just partially?

    They say the Lord of Light can bring you back despite severed limbs, organs and/or letdowns

  • Andrew:
    Jess,

    Two mentions of Rachel in 600+ comments really constitutes a disturbing amount of hate directed at her by the fandom? Bit dramatic, don’t you think?

    Yep, two comments too many. :)

  • Ours is the Fury:

    You can be white and Latino. It’s a complicated issue. “Hispanic” just means he speaks Spanish, being Chilean. (Although he’s actually American. His family is from Chile.)

    I have no idea what Pedro Pascal self-identifies as, ethnically/racially, for the record.

    That’s because of the way you U.S. folk have gotten your nationalities all mixed up with your ethnicities. See, based on your current terms and definitions in this sense, someone like me would be…hmm…let me see…

    Hispanic-Italian-Austrian-Ukranian-Polish-Mexican…or something along those lines, which sounds quite complicated, yes lol…

    Lucky for white Latinos outside the U.S. that this is not an issue for us at all. We never identify ourselves based on race/ethnicity, we just do it based on nationality. If you’re from México, you’re Mexican and if you’re from Chile, you’re Chilean, the color of your skin not withstanding. Don’t know if this is why Mr. Pascal seems to identify himself as Chilean or no, but it definitely is much simpler this way.

  • JRR Tzolkin: If you’re from México, you’re Mexican

    Unless you’re indigena, then you generally identify in whatever indigenous cultural background you fall in.

  • Gatorfisch: A Person of Color was cast.The guy is obviously Hispanic.Not only black people are POCs…and newsflash…even within the “black” spectrum, there are all sorts of skin tones…I am amazed and ashamed of all the ignorance I am reading on this site.

    No, Hispanic doesn’t mean POC, there are white hispanics, black hispanics, mixed hispanics, even asian hispanics…you should be ashamed of your ignorance before bashing others ;)

    JRR Tzolkin: Oh yes, I know this all too well, believe me. Doesn’t make it right, though.

    Take the French “restaurant” or “garage”, for instance. If I saw someone calling a pub a “restaurant” or an attic a “garage”, I would try to help them see that they are wrong. The same goes for Latino. Since the word stems from Spanish, the correct meaning of the word is the Spanish one. Simple as that.

    This misinterpretation of the word Latino, I believe, is precisely the reason why so many folk here are complaining that Mr. Pedro Pascal is “too white” for the role of Oberyn Martell. I assume they wouldn’t know that, today, countries like Argentina and Chile are “whiter” in proportion than the U.S. or even some European countries, but that’s a fact. And those two nations are Latin American countries, nonetheless.

    So, if GRRM did describe the Martells in a way that they may be perceived as Latinos by so many readers, then I’m sure he did it based in the correct, general meaning of the term Latino and not based on the way it is understood by a few folk, regardless of country and cultural perception.

    You’re also most welcome.

    Not only you’re totally wrong but you’re missing the point entirely ;)

    And by the way, the meaning of a word is the meaning the language we are speaking gives that word, not the meaning that word had in the language it originated from…I think that was pretty self-explanatory ;)

  • Cary Storm: Edward James Olmos would make a fantastic Doran.Isn’t Areo Hotah quite white?

    Do you mean winter white ? creamy white ? satiny or eggshell ?

  • sunaeryn: Can only speak for myself, but I’ll see your shock and dismay and raise you my keen disappointment at this casting choice.

    I take this depigmentation of Oberyn (Martells?) add to it the final Mhysa scene of S3 and I get a severe let down as a result. Wow indeed.

    How about you wait for the season to start and lets see the guy act and THEN bitch and whine? You sound like those people that cried rivers because Syrio wasn’t bald.

    This fandom I swear.

  • what’s with these unnecessary comments !! it feels like chaos .. just calm the Hodor down and be Grateful ..he looks perfect for the rule :D .. can’t wait to see him in Action .. Har! ..

  • Omar Brown: How about you wait for the season to start and lets see the guy act and THEN bitch and whine? You sound like those people that cried rivers because Syrio wasn’t bald.

    This fandom I swear.

    Exactly. “Keen disappointment” and “severe let down” based on nothing but the fact that the guy’s skin is somewhat-darker-than-white-but-not-quite-dark-enough? And then they wonder why others ridicule their opinion…

  • Bran The Builder: http://www.deadline.com/2013/06/emmy-q-a-with-game-of-thrones-david-benioff-and-d-b-weiss/

    Read his blog. He’s already written on the issue.

    Short version — Martin’s done TV before, and if you’re going to do shots with lots of extras, you need to be able to go some place where you can cast a lot of extras. So it was always likely that the ethnicity of the people of Dorne was going to map to some country in Europe that was, well, “off-white”.

    It would be fun to have South or East Asians, or Sub-Saharan Africans, but the locations in question are just too far for it to be practical.

    So George is down with this.

  • WildSeed: Do you mean winter white ? creamy white ? satiny or eggshell ?

    Don’t forget milky white, icy white, and off white. For example, I know a milky-white-passing-eggshell-white person. He has to deal with preconceived notions of whiteness every day, poor guy. How dare people lump all whites in one category. Shadism! Colorism!!!

    *jk

  • Well, if this comment thread has taught me one thing it’s that my sister (biracial, like I am) is privileged compared to me because she “passes as white” when I cannot. I’ll be sure to let her know that any comments made about her race or ethnicity therefore count for less, apparently.

  • LordStarkington:
    Well, if this comment thread has taught me one thing it’s that my sister (biracial, like I am) is privileged compared to me because she “passes as white” when I cannot. I’ll be sure to let her know that any comments made about her race or ethnicity therefore count for less, apparently.

    Surely you’ve heard of “pass-privilege”? It’s the latest thing in identity nullification.

  • eetrebor:
    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I just don’t think having a Spanish accent would make sense, the Dornish speak Common (natively) just like the rest ofWesteros. In GoT/ASOIAF, Common = British English….therefore a(regional?) British accent makes the most sense. Just like they’ve done with The North.

    There isa mention in the books of a “Dornish Drawl” FWIW…

    I don’t know…

    How about:

    My name iz Oberyn Martell… You keeld my seester… PREPARE TO DIE!!!

    Of course, Mandy Patinkin is far too white for the role :-)

  • sunaeryn,

    *What* “depigmentation”? Have you checked all the fanart out there depicting Oberyn? He’s even paler in those drawings than the actor hired! Hell, before the casting came out half the people were hoping out for ODED FEHR. A German-Dutch Jewish white guy as pale as he can be, but hey, he has a beard and played an Arab in a movie 10 years ago, so that makes him one of those fabled “talented POC” out there.

    Honestly, the big surprise is not that the actor chosen is contested. This SMALL character is so damn overblown in the fandom, and the expectations were so absurdly high (Hollywood A-list actors? for real?) that people were bound to be disapointed regardless of what they did. What is astonishing and completely overblown is the unashamed, bold faced racism of the PC crowd. People who *do* know that in the source material the Martells are *not* described as Black African, yet expected the production crew to cast Afro-British and Afro-Caribbean actors as them purely to fulfil an undefined race quota, claiming that the show somehow owes them three Black African characters because they dared to cut out three cardboard cutouts in the form of Yayaya, Mamayayaya and Yayayalarwhatever who do nothing in the books but stand in the background, worship sex and suffer the consequences of white people’s actions. So called fans are throwing shit purely because the actor chosen for this part is neither White British nor Black British and have not seen his audition video *for this show* or him acting anywhere else for that matter, have the gall of calling the show racist for not “blackwashing” him and casting an Idriss Elba type to play him instead.

    They even have the shamelessness of saying that going against the source material in this case is a necessary window to “add diversity” to the cast, when Afro-British actors are already part of the show in the roles of Missandei and Grey Worm, as well as XXD and Salladhor Saan (people who were nearly albino in the books, but nobody gave a shit that they got “pigmented” in the adaptation), yet react viciously against the casting of actors from new nationalities and ethnicities that aren’t yet part of the show, like South Americans. Just to see how subjective race is and how it varies from person to person, when the bashers saw this guy’s photo they raged on because he looks “white”. When I (a Spaniard), saw the first photo, before WiC changed it to one with darker skin in a failed effort to deflate the craziness, my first though was “uh, that guy looks part Native American”.

    Finally, the Dany scene in the finale. Corny? Yes. A let down compared tot he two previous final scenes? You bet. Racist? Uh, what would be *more* racist than shooting in Morocco but sending out casting notices for non-Moroccans because the sight of Moroccans only in that scene would somehow upset the feelings of someone in other country? And now the show has to “make up for that” by casting the Martells as Black African? How does that even make sense?

  • The scary thing is, Linda is kind of making sense on tumblr. Is this the twilight zone?

    Okay, Tumblr is damned funny today. Poor Pedro Pascal is apparently the wrong sort of “PoC”. The craziest comment I’ve seen so far might be that maybe he’d be considered “white” in Chile even if he’s not considered “white” elsewhere, so that somehow makes it wrong? I can’t even begin to make sense of that.

    Well, all of this does a wonderful job of showing just how messed up the “PoC” term actually is. It turns the whole question of race and inequality into a bureaucratic micromanagement of who has “white privilege” or not.

  • HalfWarg:
    Not trying to be cynical, but I strongly dislike this casting move. Besides the fact that casting a light-skinned Hispanic practically guts the visual distinction of the Dornish before they even get started, this guy’s work history is unimpressiveto say the least.

    He’s had minor and medium sized roles in a plethora of terrible shows on a handful of pathetic networks–and now he’s entrusted with one of the most charismatic roles in one of the most popular book series ever? Seriously? Did they walk into a USA Network casting office and grab the first guy they saw?

    Good. It’s not fame or popularity that makes a great actor. Hugh Laurie, Bryan Cranston, etc, etc. Everyone’s a nobody until they’re a somebody.

  • So late to the party, which is turning out to be another fracas……………….
    However several here are on board with the role given to this actor. I’m
    not at all familiar with his work, in film or television, so the weblinks didn’t
    help much. Not too surprising since I’m not really a film media expert.

    Siddig, Naveen, Oded, Cosimo, were all great contenders, however unlikely
    their interest or agents preferred either of them for this role.

    This actor will probably do his best with the script and special effects
    surrounding his attire and appearance. Certainly worth the respect
    to await his debut next season.

    I’m eager to learn what the producers have in store for onscreen Oberyn Martell.
    I’d wager that his appearance, in the end, bears little significance, as it did in
    the books. I will miss his keen intellect in surmising Tyrion’s character, among
    other things, his shrewd wit and alpha male bravado. The main thing is establishing
    historical relevance to Dorne , with perhaps a mention of his sister having married
    Rhaegar Targaryeon. Doran’s understanding of the important role that Oberyn
    played is one story I prefer hearing from Doran himself, the planner of things.

    The best is yet to come, with Doran’s appearance, Randyll Tarly, to name a couple.

  • Hodor’s Bastard:
    WildSeed,

    So much off-color humor in here!

    I know. I was hoping to inject a bit of absurd humour . *>* . Descriptive rhetoric,
    in the context of discussing ethnicity or culture is not only outdated but irrelevant.

  • Eljuma:

    Missandei and Grey Worm, as well as XXD and Salladhor Saan (people who were nearly albino in the books, but nobody gave a shit that they got “pigmented” in the adaptation)

    Missandei was not white in the book actually. Her skin description is not extremely precise, but she had tanned/light brown skin. The only significant change in the adaptation was her age. Grey Worm was, according to George RR Martin himself, not specifically white. GRRM confirmed that he had no race at all in mind for Grey Worm. If you defaulted to white when reading the books, that’s your problem. Salladhor Saan is Lyseni, who are typically fair-skinned people, true. But albino, hell no. Salla is not like that. He is described as extremely tanned, probably since he spent his life at sea, I’ll grant.

    As for your mockery of Chataya and Alayaya’s names and the culture of Summer Islanders- frankly, that doesn’t make you sound any more enlightened.

  • Ours is the Fury,

    I believe (s)he was referring only to XXD and Salladhor Saan as nearly albino (and “blackwashed” in the show). Missandei and Grey Worm were only listed as examples of Afro-British actors in the show, not characters whose skin colour was changed.

  • Bryan Cogman:
    “clearly a white-passing Latino”.

    I’ll say it again, folks. Wow.

    We’ve come to a new low….. well, that ‘s not accurate ………. some aspire only
    to perpetuate their unawareness or lack of respect for human science.
    This way of thinking only exacerbates misunderstanding and hate.

  • WildSeed,

    My attempt at humor too. Like Robin Williams once said, “If wars could only be fought with whoopie cushions…”

    Seriously though, in your previous comment you said you “will miss…” certain characteristics of RV/OM. We don’t know that D&D aren’t considering the significant bravado that RV should have. I’m sure Pedro convinced them of that in his audition. He’s got to have that swaggar, dammit!

  • Hodor’s Bastard,

    That’s what I’ve read on the subject. Now it’s just the wait for the cameras and action .
    Really hope the production doesn’t portray him as a buffoon brandishing a
    shiny sword and a pretty wig .
    *>*

  • Lex,

    hmm perhaps. It was the comment about ‘going against the source to add diversity’ that struck me.

  • Cary Storm: Unless you’re indigena, then you generally identify in whatever indigenous cultural background you fall in.

    Indeed. And what’s more, a few indigenous peoples have kept their traditions and tongues intact to this very day; they hardly speak any Spanish at all. And if they do, they don’t qualify Latinos, since Spanish is not their native tongue.

    Pau Soriano:

    Not only you’re totally wrong but you’re missing the point entirely ;)

    And by the way, the meaning of a word is the meaning the language we are speaking gives that word, not the meaning that word had in the language it originated from…I think that was pretty self-explanatory ;)

    Oh no, I get your point, believe me. And furthermore, you’re absolutely correct. According to the English Webster’s dictionary, a Latino is anyone born in Latin America. Though in the end, I believe we are both trying to make the same point here, which is that Latino is not a race, and that the Latino culture is very diverse. We’re just taking a very different approach, is all.

    At any rate, no offense, but since I happen to be Latino myself, not only is it impossible for me to be wrong, since I obviously understand my own culture much better than any outsider, but I may just know a thing or two more about the way we feel about this than any “Hispanic non-Latino person” (or in a nutshell, anyone from España ;-)).

    Not to mention that we both have the same right to explain why we feel like this whole “all Latinos are dark of skin” business is mistaken.

  • Lex:
    Eljuma,

    Well said! Thank you for being a voice of sanity, in a sea of moronic hysteria.

    I don’t believe you read Eljuma’s entire post . I read through too fast, initially, but
    ended up giving another ” face palm ” to myself. Several here have provoked
    unnecessary diatribe.

    Time to read a book and curl up to my lemonade. Have a great day GoT fans !

  • Hali:
    JR,

    There are a hellalot of Deadwood, The Wire, Sopranos, Breaking Bad, and Justified fans out there who think Game of Thrones is silly and that your bar isn’t nearly high enough.Doesn’t mean they are right anymore than you are right about Dr. Who.What does your opinion of Dr. Who have to do with anything?Why bash other shows in defense of your opinions about this casting choice?

    I’m pretty much the biggest Breaking Bad and the Wire fan out there, but I would never condescend toward Game of Thrones. It has stellar writing. Doctor Who doesn’t. Or maybe it does, and I’m just too post-pubescent to get it.

  • Bryan Cogman,

    You guys might want to think about “leaking” Pedro Pascal’s audition tape so people can see him in action as RV. I don’t think I can take 9 more months of this!

  • Newsflash: Apparently this Pedro grew up in Orange County and his parents moved him out of Chile when he was really young and that they’re playing up his Chilean ancestry for diversity points.

    Also, he is white. So, so white.

  • db,

    So he’s the first Californian actor in the show and the first of Chilean ancestry as well.

    There, diversity attained x2.

  • db,

    As far as i’m aware, moving somewhere doesn’t change your ethnicity. Furthermore, he looks no whiter than most of the pictures of Janina Gavankar i’ve seen. People seemed quite quick to point out George said she looks like Nymeria during previous racial debates.

  • Pau Soriano,

    One look at the guy, and I think, Hispanic of some kind. I don’t think, “white”. Maybe because of all my friends from Cuba, Puerto Rico, Bolivia, Guatemala, Mexico, El Salvador, etc., but the fact remains, the actor fits within what is considered a POC in the U.S. (At least to most people.) He does not look like his family is originally from Germany, Italy, or any of the former European Axis powers, he looks like he has some indigenous heritage in there…so YES, he is a POC. With your logic, Persians, Arabs, and Palestinians are white, too.

    And to the person who said, “He grew up in Orange County, so he’s white”…what?! Really? Living in Orange County makes one white?

  • He is not the first actor of Chilean ancestry on the show: Oona Chaplin is.

    And people mention him being from Orange County not to deny his heritage but to point out that Pascal is American. There is a slight deception in the PR release, in that Pascal is being presented as though he is currently from Chile when he is very much an American, who has spent the vast majority of his life in the US. That does not affect his ethnicity, of course.

  • Ours is the Fury:

    And people mention him being from Orange County not to deny his heritage but to point out that Pascal is American. There is a slight deception in the PR release, in that Pascal is being presented as though he is currently from Chile when he is very much an American, who has spent the vast majority of his life in the US. That does not affect his ethnicity, of course.

    db’s previous post pretty clearly implies that he’s not “really” Chilean because he lived in the United States.

    As for your comment about ‘deception’, that’s an interesting (and I would say poor) way to phrase it. What if he considers himself Chilean due to his ancestry, regardless of where he grew up? My mom spent most of her life in the United States, having moved here in the ’60s as a little girl but still considers herself Greek first.

    Unless someone knows otherwise, isn’t it possible that he considers himself Chilean? Or that he/his representatives asked for that description?

  • JRR Tzolkin: Indeed. And what’s more, a few indigenous peoples have kept their traditions and tongues intact to this very day; they hardly speak any Spanish at all. And if they do, they don’t qualify Latinos, since Spanish is not their native tongue.

    Oh no, I get your point, believe me. And furthermore, you’re absolutely correct. According to the English Webster’s dictionary, a Latino is anyone born in Latin America. Though in the end, I believe we are both trying to make the same point here, which is that Latino is not a race, and that the Latino culture is very diverse. We’re just taking a very different approach, is all.

    At any rate, no offense, but since I happen to be Latino myself, not only is it impossible for me to be wrong, since I obviously understand my own culture much better than any outsider, but I may just know a thing or two more about the way we feel about this than any “Hispanic non-Latino person” (or in a nutshell, anyone from España ;-)).

    Not to mention that we both have the same right to explain why we feel like this whole “all Latinos are dark of skin” business is mistaken.

    Haha I hear you, and to further complicate things I’m from Barcelona, which is technically Spain, but my mother tongue is not spanish, it’s catalan, and me and the majority of barcelonians/catalans (according to the latest polls) don’t feel spanish and want to secede (much like (some of) the quebecoise,for reference), so I don’t even know if I’m hispanic anymore :P

  • LordStarkington,

    Really, it’s our own faults. The massive outrage over casting a girl from Essex as Missandei, or casting a Londoner as Grey Worm should have tipped us of. How could we forget how relevant to the discussion an actors place of residence was then?

  • Vikestad: If you can’t be sensible, go to westeros.org where you belong.

    That’s gotta be the best comment I’ve seen in this thread! Sure, there are SOME sensible people over there, but if you spend enough time on the boards there you soon realize they are in the minority.

  • Cary Storm,

    Nah, Idris Elba is the perfect choice for Moqorro. I think I’d mess myself if I saw a casting announcement saying Elba was gonna be playing my favorite Red Priest.

  • db:
    the willful ignorance in these comments is so disgustingly appalling

    Don’t be so hard on yourself. I, for one, appreciate your efforts in getting this dead horse to 1,000 replies.

  • Pau Soriano: Haha I hear you, and to further complicate things I’m from Barcelona, which is technically Spain, but my mother tongue is not spanish, it’s catalan, and me and the majority of barcelonians/catalans (according to the latest polls) don’t feel spanish and want to secede (much like (some of) the quebecoise,for reference), so I don’t even know if I’m hispanic anymore :P

    See, I knew you were from Spain. Just didn’t know where exactly. Barça, huh? Well, I had a g/f from Barcelona once (she grew up in Chile, though) and another one who went to college there, so I know a bit about the city and Catalunya in general. And yep, I know it’s complicated, what with this talk of secession and all.

    But yeah, this means I did know where you were coming from and I hear you, believe me. As for the secession, who knows? Maybe it’ll never come to pass or maybe someday it will succeed, but if Spanish is your native tongue, then you are Hispanic just the same (even if not Spaniard anymore ;-P)

  • There’s almost no way to accurately discuss race and ethnicity in the Americas. Excepting recent immigrants, people do not necessarily even know what ethnicity they are. Therefore it’s silly to make assumptions about others based solely on looks. I didn’t find out I was part Native American until we got our mitochondrial DNA tested (I’m otherwise northern European). Brian Sykes tested Americans from different parts of the country with all different skin colors using the chromosome painting technique. This tests each individual chromosome and can determine if it’s African, Asian or European and almost everyone had a mixture. The country would be such a better place if we all got genetic testing so we can all just start viewing ourselves as individual melting pots.

    Rant over.

    I think the Dornish just had to be different than the other Westrosi. I don’t know or care if Pedro Pascal is Spanish or Amerindian or both. He doesn’t look like a Briton or Anglo-Saxon, so mission accomplished. I don’t think he would have been cast if he didn’t play the part well. It’s safe to say the audition involved many line readings and they didn’t just look at head shots or something.
    It’s absurd that people are complaining about Pascal’s skin tone being wrong. I say that as an avowed leftist who is pro affirmative action and anti voter ID laws and is glad Paula Deen got fired!

  • Let’s wait 9 months or so and *then* see who will be on a diet of their own words. Proof of the pudding and all that.

  • Atreyu,

    Ill add one to the list.

    The hand wringing and purist rage going on here over a topic that isn’t even set in stone (the depiction of dorne) is absurd.
    But not as absurd as the POC crap.

    My thoughts he looks the part, I can see it, and I’m more eager to see the screen version of the red viper before I pass judgements.

    But where’s his widows peak?
    NOONEUNDERSTANDS. ? Right?

  • Nick: The show is painfully white, with minorities disproportionately represented as villainous or savage.

    There is only one character on the show played by a “minority” that was villainous: Xaro Xhoan Daxos. And the thing is, the character in the books was white (ALBINO like white). So by “colorizing” the show as so many of the whiners here (and at other sites online) demand, they created the problem of minorities being cast as villains.

    Of course in you almighty arrogance you seem to forget that EVERY SINGLE NASTY MOTHERFUCKER on the show (characters that make Xaro seem like Big Bird) is white. If I was to act like all of you racists who complain about the ethnicity of the actors being cast, I’d be bitching about the anti-white people racism this seems to portray.

    Sorry, but the more so many of you complain that Pedro Pascal is too pale, or that the Dornish HAVE to be played by a certain ethnicity, the more