Neil Marshall returns to direct S4
By Hear Me Roar on in News, Production.

The wishes of the showrunners and fans alike have come true! Neil Marshall, who directed the stunning and pivotal Blackwater in season two, is returning to the show according to Empire Online. (SPOILER ALERT, do not follow the link if you have not read through A Storm of Swords!)

He will helm the final episode of season four. Given what he managed to accompilshed on such short notice in S2, we can expect quite a treat with enough planning ahead of time this year.

Hear Me Roar: Colour me excited! I guess we now know what will constitute episode 410. Remember to cover all your spoilers in the comments.

WiC UPDATE: Hold your horses, folks. Our own source close to the production has indicated to us that this Empire report is not entirely accurate. We were unable to get any specifics, but we probably shouldn’t take everything in this report as completely set in stone. Let’s wait until we get a more official announcement before getting too worked up.


197 Comments

  1. Willsh
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    Hodor

  2. Ser Tahu
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    Hodor.

    EDIT: Damn.

    Anyway, if this is true I am honestly extremely disappointed, not because they got Neil back (that part has me really happy), but because it means that they will likely give the siege of the Wall the Blackwater treatment, and devote a whole episode to at.

    At first, devoting a whole episode to the siege of the Wall sounds really good, until you actually look at it and realise that it happens over several days, because it is a siege and not a swift battle like Blackwater. Because of this I was hoping that they would have it spread over 2-3 episodes to highlight this difference. Also, if this news is true, it raises several questions, most notable how are they going to delay both the Night’s Watch and Stannis storylines for 9 episodes before it happens?

    I am hoping that the part about it being the season finale turns out to be false, and that it is a misquotation of ‘late in the season’. I am also hoping that Neil is back for two episodes rather than one (specifically episodes 7 and 8).

    Either way, I am taking this particular report with a grain of salt for now.

    P.S This marks one of the few times where I saw the news before it was reported here :P

  3. Lollius Palicanus
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    Hodor!

    That is pretty late for the battle at the wall!

  4. Nick Larter
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    No brainer! Brill!

  5. Adam Whitehead
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    Interesting and much hoped-for news, though the timing is a surprise.

    This does leave the fate of Jon’s ‘Lord Commander election’ subplot up in the air. The election storyline unfolds over multiple Jon and Sam chapters after the battle before ASoS ends. This leaves two possibilities:

    1) Jon is elected LC before the battle. This may be more likely, with nine episodes to fill before the battle takes place. We know that Alliser Thorne and Janos Slynt are returning. However, without Stannis’s ‘approval’ it may be less plausible that Jon is elected. Stannis showing up at the Wall before the battle would be lame, IMO, and remove one of the best scenes in the books to date.

    2) The story unfolds as it does in the books, but the election storyline is held back to the first 1-2 episodes of Season 5. Whilst possible, it seems to me to be unwise to be devoting chunks of your FIFTH season (out of eight in total) to the third book in the series. It also makes it much less likely they are going to get through AFFC/ADWD in Season 5 (which is essential, IMO, for both pacing and to leave them three seasons to cover the probably-gigantic final two books) if Sam’s not leaving for Braavos until Episode 3 or 4 (as he won’t go until after the election).

  6. Ser
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    Please, i need some information.

  7. sati
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    Awesome that he will direct again! I’m surprised the battle will be in finale, I was sure it would be in ep.9

  8. Hear Me Roar
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    Yes, interesting choices. It’s definitely later than expected (if Empire has it right) … thanks for the analysis of what that entails.

  9. HodorsBrotherHodor
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    Adam – Scenario #2 is not a big deal, especially if they move stuff from AFFC and ADWD up into season 4, which I think is probably a done deal. I think what we will have is some accelerated storylines and some “on time” storylines, with the accelerated ones outweighing the others.

  10. Davy
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead:
    Interesting and much hoped-for news, though the timing is a surprise.

    This does leave the fate of Jon’s ‘Lord Commander election’ subplot up in the air. The election storyline unfolds over multiple Jon and Sam chapters after the battle before ASoS ends. This leaves two possibilities:

    1) Jon is elected LC before the battle. This may be more likely, with nine episodes to fill before the battle takes place. We know that Alliser Thorne and Janos Slynt are returning. However, without Stannis’s ‘approval’ it may be less plausible that Jon is elected. Stannis showing up at the Wall before the battle would be lame, IMO, and remove one of the best scenes in the books to date.

    2) The story unfolds as it does in the books, but the election storyline is held back to the first 1-2 episodes of Season 5. Whilst possible, it seems to me to be unwise to be devoting chunks of your FIFTH season (out of eight in total) to the third book in the series. It also makes it much less likely they are going to get through AFFC/ADWD in Season 5 (which is essential, IMO, for both pacing and to leave them three seasons to cover the probably-gigantic final two books) if Sam’s not leaving for Braavos until Episode 3 or 4 (as he won’t go until after the election).

    I don’t really agree tbh. We don’t know yet what happens north of the wall in book 6 and 7. GRR martin might have told D&D that not much will happen because it will be wrecked by the Others and all those pov’s will move south.

    I also think that jon’s election would fit good for the overall story progression if it’s in season 5. They are going to do the Battle of mereen definatly in that season and the Battle in the Ice somewhere in season 6 as there is no time for two battles in season 5. That would give them time to build up the power of White Harbour and Winterfell (or what’s left of it) in season 5. Season 4 could be filled with Davos being sent to White Harbour and the Yara story we see with Deepwood motte (in the series it might be without Stannis). The only major things that happen in the north in season 5 are ramsay’s wedding and Stannis traveling to winterfell with some Wall wildling shizzle mixed in.

    I think it wouldn’t be a problem to wait with jon’s election it will add some “fat” to season 5 the show might need.

  11. sunspear
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    The way the source tells it, the battle doesn’t have to be in the finale. He just said that Mance is going to be in the episode, and Empire assumed the rest.

    I realize that this is grasping at straws, but I think it’s really weird and possibly dumb decision to have the battle in the last episode. What’s Jon supposed to do for 9 episodes then? I suppose they could have Jon’s election, but the whole reason he got elected was because he led the defense of the Wall.

  12. Adam Whitehead
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    There is a third option:

    Stannis wins the battle and Jon is ‘appointed’ LC on the spot, or snap-elected at the end of the episode with none of the preamble from the book.

  13. Davy
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:38 am | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead:
    There is a third option:

    Stannis wins the battle and Jon is ‘appointed’ LC on the spot, or snap-elected at the end of the episode with none of the preamble from the book.

    Hmm or option 4

    The election of the lord commander is being held during the season. Starting in season 4 and over multiple episodes a new LC is chosen. However before the night’s watch can make their choice the wildling’s attack and they have to defend the wall. At the end of the episode Stannis arrives at the wall and asks where Jon Snow is. Who is elected at that moment. Although it would lose the “jon stark” moment.

  14. Ollie
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    I think it’s ridiculous to assume that just because Marshall directed a big battle episode before, he must be doing another one in S4. What is there to suggest that directors can only direct one type of episode? It’s ridiculous.

    The idea of an only-Wall episode as the finale is completely incongruous with the way the showrunners have laid out every season before. And if there was any evidence to suggest it, the episode having a certain director is no real evidence in itself.

  15. Adam Whitehead
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:42 am | Permalink

    Ollie,

    Did you read the Empire article? They also talked about the contents of the episode as well as which one it was.

  16. Lou Reed
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    There has been speculation about which, if any, story arcs, might be pushed beyond ASOS next season

    It seems now we know, that Jons wont.

    Doubt that the Siege of the Wall will get the full episode 10. Probably mixed with some Kings Landing stuff.

  17. Watson
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    I would guess that this means Stannis vs the Wildlings happens in the finale, while much of the preceeding season is made up of skirmishes from atop the Wall. I think leaving the election to the subsequent season makes sense, as that story deserves more space to breathe. I suspect it was only shoehorned into the end of ASoS because of the planned 5 year gap. Thematically it fits in better with the ADwD material anyway.

  18. WinWolf
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    Please dont do battle of castle black so late blahhhh

  19. Bard
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    They can’t use episode 10 for a “the-wall-only” episode. They need to wrap up all the other storylines and set up season 5 as they did before.

  20. JP Dayne
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    I’m so fucking happy

    But I thought the big episodes were reserved for episode 9

  21. Coltaine777
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    Fantastic news…

  22. Archmaester
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    Very good decision to bring Neil Marshall back! Not sure about the timing of the assumed events though, what on earth are Stannis and crew going to do until Ep 10??

    Not so concerned about stretching the Wall storyline itself – it could easily be filled by Ygritte’s death and the earlier stages of the battle (plus possibly the election), with the big Ep 10 event being Stannis’ arrival. I would be disappointed if Stannis et al turned up earlier than they should, but I guess they could make it work somehow.

    On a connected note – could this mean that Tywin and Shae’s deaths will be the Ep 9 event rather than Ep 10 as some have predicted? I can’t see them having that major event AND a big battle at the wall in one episode.

    Can’t wait for this season!

  23. Blaat
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    JP Dayne,

    Only cat + Wherever whores go are in my opinion bigger than the Battle at the Wall

  24. Davy
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    Archmaester:
    Very good decision to bring Neil Marshall back! Not sure about the timing of the assumed events though, what on earth are Stannis and crew going to do until Ep 10??

    Not so concerned about stretching the Wall storyline itself – it could easily be filled by Ygritte’s death and the earlier stages of the battle (plus possibly the election), with the big Ep 10 event being Stannis’ arrival. I would be disappointed if Stannis et al turned up earlier than they should, but I guess they could make it work somehow.

    On a connected note – could this mean that Tywin and Shae’s deaths will be the Ep 9 event rather than Ep 10 as some have predicted? I can’t see them having that major event AND a big battle at the wall in one episode.

    Can’t wait for this season!

    I think Stannis will have more then enough to do. I have once made up a possible season 4 storyline that would would give Stannis and crew enough to do based on deviations in the show and ADWD storylines. A possibility is that Stannis will first have some more “florent” storyline in season 4 before going to the wall in ep 3 or 4 (after hearing Joffrey’s death) and then ending up in a viscious storm and engaging Yara greyjoy’s fleet. Resulting in Saladdhor Sadhaan abandoning Stannis’ cause and Yara and Davos ending up near White harbour. Where Davos then would decide he could ask Manderly to join Stannis his cause. The rest of the season (this would be ep 6 or so) it could be a question. Does Stannis still live? Will he make it for the wall? For him then to pop up again once the battle has started.

  25. Adam Whitehead
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    They can’t use episode 10 for a “the-wall-only” episode. They need to wrap up all the other storylines and set up season 5 as they did before.

    Why?

    Do all of that in Episode 9 – wrap up Tyrion/Dany/Arya etc – and then do the Wall in Episode 10. Episode 9 can become the de facto season finale for everyone else. They’ve used this structure before on shows like BABYLON 5, where for their fourth season the finale was the penultimate episode and the actual finale was an experimental episode focused on a totally different situation hundreds of years later.

    That said, the idea someone mentioned that this isn’t actually episode 10 but might be 8 or 9 would make a bit more sense. I do like the idea of it being 10 simply because it shakes things out of their comfort zone.

    But I thought the big episodes were reserved for episode 9

    Even if this 10, 9 will probably still be packed with huge events:

    Like Tywin and Shae’s deaths, Tyrion’s escape, possibly even Lysa’s death and Sandor’s apparent death.

  26. azad injejikian
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    LOL, Maybe you’re all wrong and they’re giving the Neil Marshall Blackwater treatment to Lysa’s death.

    The more epic of pushes out the moon door!

  27. Impi
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    I sill think Battle of the Wall will be ep 9 and ep 10 will be cleaning up the aftermath and focusing on Lady Stone heart. What on earth Dany will be doing at the end of the season is a complete mystery to me.

  28. ATG
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    Sweet, sweet news indeed.

  29. azad injejikian
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    Impi,

    More Daario pining than you can shake a dragon’s tail at

  30. MRR
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    I wasn’t much of a fan of the cartoonish levels of violence he brought to the show—Tyrion hacking someone’s leg off at the knee in a single blow, and much of the other scenes of gore in Blackwater, didn’t mesh especially well with how violence had previously been portrayed in the show—but I won’t deny that Blackwater was a great episode as a whole, and his larger-scale action sequences were very nice.

    I don’t think, however, that the siege on the Wall will take up the entire episode (i.e. “the Blackwater treatment”). I can’t imagine them devoting the finale to a single storyline. The last episode of the season normally touches base with just about every relevant plotline, and I can’t imagine they’d abandon that this time around.

    I’m also not entirely surprised that the attack on the Wall will be near the end of the season. I might have expected it to be ep. 9, with Jon’s “election” squared into episode 10, but there’s still a lot of stuff to happen at the Wall in season 4. The attack on Castle Black (the first one, from Tormund and company) will likely take at least a few episodes to resolve, and then there’s the return of Thorne and Janos Slynt to contend with.

  31. Blaat
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    azad injejikian,

    Atleast in the tv show we will get some satisfaction from the Daario storyline when he will be flung at the city walls. Visually it will (for me personally) be better than Joff’s death (I rather like his shenanigans, fortunately Ramsay will take over as sadistic badass

  32. DarkRavenous
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    The season 4 finale might be the best yet.

    If they do it right we could see, Only Cat, the ending of the battle at the wall, Tywin’s death followed by the last scene. I would love it they ended season 4 with Stoneheart hanging a Frey,

    I honestly think next season is the one to beat. There is so much to be excited about. I am interested in where they will take Yara’s story and what they could do with her character. I love this time of the year, casting news, speculation and anticipation really gets the discussion going.

  33. MRR
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    After a second reading, it might be worth noting that the term “finale” could have been used informally in the article. Sometimes these things get confused as rumors are passed along; until we get a better source I wouldn’t bet on it definitely being ep.10 that he directs.

  34. Ollie
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:10 am | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead:
    Ollie,

    Did you read the Empire article? They also talked about the contents of the episode as well as which one it was.

    Yes, but all that article says is that the episode, at least partially, takes place “at the Wall, with Mance Rayder”. That is a perfectly valid description of an episode taking place after the battle, focusing on the LC election, and featuring Mance Rayder (who will be a prisoner at that point and could easily share a scene with Jon or other characters). Anything about the Battle for the Wall is purely inference, not based on fact.

  35. OtherAndrew
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    Use a little common sense, guys. Marshall is surely directing episode 9, not 10.

  36. HouseLark
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    Nice to see that the next series will end with a bang. Series’ two and three really suffered from the anti-climax and loose-end tying of the final episodes. Series one had it about right with the shocking event in episode nine (Ned’s execution) and the ‘fuck, yeah’ moment of episode ten (the birth of the dragons).

    I expect that we’ll see Tywin die in episode nine followed by the battle at the Wall in episode ten.

  37. Cookie
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    Ollie: Yes, but all that article says is that the episode, at least partially, takes place “at the Wall, with Mance Rayder”. That is a perfectly valid description of an episode taking place after the battle, focusing on the LC election, and featuring Mance Rayder (who will be a prisoner at that point and could easily share a scene with Jon or other characters). Anything about the Battle for the Wall is purely inference, not based on fact.

    You certainly got a point there, but:
    Fact is, he was brought to direct Blackwater because of his experience with low budget battle scenes (the showrunners said so a couple of times). It´s also a fact, that the showrunners said they intend to show the Battle Of The Wall late in Season 4.

    One and one equals…? Ok, it may not be THAT clear cut, but i´d say its much more likely that Neil Marshall will indeed direct the episode containing the Battle Of The Wall than not. Right now, i´d bet my money that the article is wrong with it being the season finale. Either that, or that battle won´t get the full Episode devoted to it.

  38. King DBC
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    Davy,

    Season 5 should finish up AFFC & ADWD and include at least one of the battles that they build up to for it to be an enjoyable season. Preferably the Battle in the Ice. They have the perfect opportunity now to finish ASOS with season 4 and finish AFFC & ADWD in season 5, I think it’s kind of a no brainer. I presume the last two books will be eventful, filled with the events that ADWD lacked, right at the start. To end off Season 5 they need some of these ‘eventful’ events… 3 Seasons for the last 2 books seems perfect.

  39. Adam Whitehead
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    Yes, but all that article says is that the episode, at least partially, takes place “at the Wall, with Mance Rayder”. That is a perfectly valid description of an episode taking place after the battle, focusing on the LC election, and featuring Mance Rayder (who will be a prisoner at that point and could easily share a scene with Jon or other characters). Anything about the Battle for the Wall is purely inference, not based on fact.

    They also say that the finale is ‘violent’, which indicates some level of mayhem or violence in it.

    And why would you use your battle-oriented, highly successful director (that you previously hired to do a big battle episode and was critically acclaimed for it) to do a much quieter aftermath episode?

    It may be the article was incorrect over which episode it was (and they may have used ‘finale’ erroneously instead of ‘climax’), but I think it’s highly probable that Neil Marshall will be directing the big battle episode of Season 4.

  40. telobsidion
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    I expected this plotline midway through the season. Even as a bookreader, I find the progression of these character arcs agonizingly slow. What the hell are they going to do with Jon and Stannis all season? I want to really see their characters DO something and interact with others.

  41. StarkyZG
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:48 am | Permalink

    telobsidion:
    I expected this plotline midway through the season. Even as a bookreader, I find the progression of these character arcs agonizingly slow. What the hell are they going to do with Jon and Stannis all season? I want to really see their characters DO something and interact with others.

    My thoughts exactly! If s4 is only about the rest of book 3 it’s going to be terribly slow! I hope I’m wrong, though.

  42. Duval
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    DarkRavenous,

    I doubt they end the season with that. Seeing as they’ve gone with fire-ice-fire as season finales, something like Jon’s election seems more logical

  43. Winter Is Coming
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    Just added to the post:

    Hold your horses, folks. Our own source close to the production has indicated to us that this Empire report is not entirely accurate. We were unable to get any specifics, but we probably shouldn’t take everything in this report as completely set in stone. Let’s wait until we get a more official announcement before getting too worked up.

  44. Nick_Scryer
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    I bet the unreliable part of the article is that it’s the finale episode he’s directing.

    No way they’ll dedicate the entire finale episode to the Battle, I’m guessing it will be episode 9. So the penultimate episode is the big episode as usual.

  45. Bard
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    King DBC: Adam Whitehead,

    Davy,

    Season 5 should finish up AFFC & ADWD and include at least one of the battles that they build up to for it to be an enjoyable season. Preferably the Battle in the Ice. They have the perfect opportunity now to finish ASOS with season 4 and finish AFFC & ADWD in season 5, I think it’s kind of a no brainer. I presume the last two books will be eventful, filled with the events that ADWD lacked, right at the start. To end off Season 5 they need some of these ‘eventful’ events… 3 Seasons for the last 2 books seems perfect.

    This. But they would need the Battle in the Ice plot until next year. I doubt that Martin will be able to finish TWOW so soon (maybe he could give them some exclusive material?).

    Since there’s not sooo much happening at the wall in ADWD, they will probably use the choosing of the LC as material for season 5 (episode 1-2/3?). If you look at the inofficial timeline ( https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj_uNZmcJaTddG9BVU5tRnJJTE5KcE5JRkFha1ZfNUE ), the choosing takes place after all the other events of ASOS. It’s probably the only part of the book which could be shifted to season 5.

  46. Card of Doom
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    I don’t know why everyone is assuming that Neil Marshall is only capable of Blackwater style episodes. There might not be any battle at all.
    The difference with him was that he directed an episode and treated it like a major motion picture.
    He can still do that without any battles happening.
    Besides, the battle at the wall takes place almost at the end of the book so episode 9 or 10 would be fine.
    He could also handle the incident with Arya and the Hound at the Inn and leave off with her heading to Bravos or the moves Sam makes to help get Jon voted in as Lord Commander
    Or they could finish book 3 by mid season and be working on AFFC/ADWD by episode 10.

    Either way, I have faith.

  47. Card of Doom
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    Also, Neil Marshall kinda looks like Louis CK

  48. Joan Català
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    I suspect that by finale they mean Episode 9. If that’s it, I don’t think it’ll get Blackwater treatment and other storylines will be included. There’s just not as many pivotal characters as there were in blackwater (Jon/Mance/Stannis vs Tyrion/Stannis/Cersei/Joffrey/Sansa etc). I hope King’s Landing is not included and the Mountain vs RedViper and Tywin’s death are saved for Episode 10. That’d make for the most epic finale to date.

  49. Turncloak
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming:
    Just added to the post:

    Hold your horses, folks. Our own source close to the production has indicated to us that this Empire report is not entirely accurate. We were unable to get any specifics, but we probably shouldn’t take everything in this report as completely set in stone. Let’s wait until we get a more official announcement before getting too worked up.

    Thanks! Like I thought, the battle in the season 4 “finale” was just probably a misinterpretation of Empire’s source

  50. Bran The Builder
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    IMHO the Neil Marshall episode (whichever it might be) is not a single location event as last time. In the commentary for season 2, Neil mentioned that he was lucky that Blackwater was a single location shoot because he was brought in at a short notice.

    As reported in Empire, Neil has been brought in pretty early and he has got a lot of time to prepare. So, I guess the plan is to shoot at multiple locations covering Mance, Jon & Stannis at The Wall and KL too.

  51. arden
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    Great news, have to put my dog of 14 years to sleep today and this gets my mind off it for a while thank you

  52. serum
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    That is amazing!

  53. Jentario
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    You all do know that the fact that he’s directing the finale doesn’t mean it will be the Battle at the Wall. It would make no sense at all to have that in the finale, especially considering the epic 9s and the fact that finales usually cap the season and go around all the characters. There is already too much to be done in it considering Tyrion’s confrontation with Daddy, “Only Cat”, Lady Stoneheart, Arya either taking a ship or arriving in a ship, Stannis’s offering and Jon’s choice (even if the election is pushed to next season) and let’s not forget Dany’s decision, a final Bran scene and something for Theon and Yara. It will be an action packed finale but it will not include the battle, which will likely end up on episode 9 (at least the final confrontation).

  54. Delta1212
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    Joan Català:
    I suspect that by finale they mean Episode 9. If that’s it, I don’t think it’ll get Blackwater treatment and other storylines will be included. There’s just not as many pivotal characters as there were in blackwater (Jon/Mance/Stannis vs Tyrion/Stannis/Cersei/Joffrey/Sansa etc). I hope King’s Landing is not included and the Mountain vs RedViper and Tywin’s death are saved for Episode 10. That’d make for the most epic finale to date.

    MvRV will probably be 7 or 8. Tywin’ll be 10, though.

  55. Spidey-Dan
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    There’s another possibility re: the election plot that that I don’t think has been mentioned.

    I think it likely that the election process will begin before the siege, midseason or so, with Sam running around for the couple of episodes running up to the climax of the season, talking to various people and making insinuations. There should be some mystery as to what he’s up to. Votes could even be cast, but the count is disrupted by the wildlings’ attack, and the decision is only revealed after the battle, to coincide with Stannis’s offer to Jon.

    I do think that this needs to happen at the end of this season, since it’s not enough to fill out season 5, which needs to focus on the next stage of Jon’s development, which is his struggle with his responsibility. If they save the election until season 5, it’ll just be tying up the dangling threads from season 4, which would not be a good move.

  56. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    Winter Is Coming,

    Folks are assuming Mr. Marshall is the battle guy. I think that is a bit presumptuous. He may be directing for another aspect of the series altogether, to expand his own horizons.

    Also, please note that for “Blackwater” Mr. Marshall was given a superb script by the master himself. He will need a decent script to work with, but with so much going on at the end os ASoS (if indeed he is doing the finale) the script will be packed with excitement.

    [edit: after a re-read of the comments, it seems many others have assumed this as well]

  57. DarkRavenous
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    Duval,

    If they want to make a powerful final scene for the season 4 finale I can think of none better than Stoneheart making an appearance. Considering we didn’t get her resurrection this season (like many had speculated) and since everyone is being quiet about Michelle returning, I can only hope they decide to keep this moment hidden from the unsullied. Also what scene could top that if they do include it into the finale?

    If they stay faithful to the book then we could have an awesome finale.

  58. Ollie
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead: They also say that the finale is ‘violent’, which indicates some level of mayhem or violence in it.

    And why would you use your battle-oriented, highly successful director (that you previously hired to do a big battle episode and was critically acclaimed for it) to do a much quieter aftermath episode?

    It may be the article was incorrect over which episode it was (and they may have used ‘finale’ erroneously instead of ‘climax’), but I think it’s highly probable that Neil Marshall will be directing the big battle episode of Season 4.

    “Violent” would also perfectly describe Lysa’s death and Stoneheart/BWB hanging the Frey. Not to mention, of course, Tyrion killing Tywin and Shae, which could easily happen in episode 10 as well.

    I agree that the most likely explanation is that the article got the episode number wrong. I cannot envisage the very last episode being Stannis’ arrival, since it would give Team Dragonstone nothing of real substance to do in S4, and Jon’s arc would become much more sparse. And then S5 would have to be much more rushed – I ca n hardly see them fitting the entire LC election and Jon’s assassination, and everything in between (largely agreed to be one of the stronger, more interesting arcs of AFFC/ADWD), without it seeming ridiculously rushed. And I can’t see an LC election happening prior to the final battle, I can’t think of how that would make any sense at all (not to mention it would remove the major emotional point of that arc – Jon’s decision to refuse Winterfell).

  59. Unbowd UnbentUnHodor
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    having the big event happening at the last episode doesn’t seem right.

  60. Jake Umber
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    Who’s to say Marshall isn’t directing one of the battles at the Wall this year? I mean, what if it is stretched out over a couple episodes, and he is just being given the climax/finale of the battle? I think we’re assuming a little too much based on what seems to be a pretty lousy article.

  61. Hear Me Roar
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    Holy spoiler, batman!
    Be careful tagging all your spoilery material, people. Use the spoiler and preview buttons.

  62. DarkRavenous
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    Hear Me Roar,

    Lesson learned, never type a comment when your phone is ringing. You accidently hit send without thinking… Comment is fixed now. Thanks to whoever helped there.

  63. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    Hoping for the return of Alex Graves as well!

  64. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:03 am | Permalink

    DarkRavenous:
    Hear Me Roar,

    Lesson learned, never type a comment when your phone is ringing. You accidently hit send without thinking… Comment is fixed now. Thanks to whoever helped there.

    The perils of multi-tasking! Hopefully you weren’t driving while texting as well, like many of my fellow commuters!

  65. Liz B.
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    JP Dayne,

    Purple wedding

  66. JamesL
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    I think it is true that he is returning for S4 but what is not entirely accurate is the part that says he will be directing the finale. The battle will probably be ep.9 again.

  67. JamesL
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Ollie,

    Stannis is most likely going to arrive at the Wall before the battle in the TV show. I thought the S3 finale made that fairly obvious. D&D have already confirmed that the battle happens towards the end of S4 and they are not going to delay his arrival the whole season.

  68. Lord Of The Waters
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Great to hear that Neil will be back for season 4. I would expect the error in the Empire report will indeed be that Marshall will be directing episode 9 rather than the finale. Theres no way that the last episode can be mainly focused on one major area. It needs to be spread around to keep the show structured properly going into season 5. Im pretty sure that Neil will be directing the major parts of the Battle at the Wall. Now the only question is will the episode just focus on those events or will Neil be getting his teeth into other plot lines as well?

  69. Gatehouse Ami
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    It wouldn’t hurt my feelings if he directs 9 and 10.

  70. azad injejikian
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    68 comments in so far, and no one has brought up that Neil Marshall was selected instead of a person of color. Where’s your outrage noooooowww???!!!! :)

  71. Ours is the Fury
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    Oooooooh Marshall! Exciting news. Whatever episode he’s on, I’m stoked for. I agree with what some have said about the timing issues. Wish we knew what was inaccurate about the report. I hope it’s the episode number, because my hope would be that Marshall is there to direct the Battle for the Wall in an earlier episode, somewhere in ep 7-9 range, leaving a better amount of time for the election shenanigans now that we have Thorne and Slynt back.

  72. NomadicDirewolf
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    this is good news in principle, really hope that he’s actually directing an earlier episode as 10 is way to late for the Battle at the Wall to take place, even if the show does spread it out rather than doing it all in one go (preferably over the course of multiple episodes , but over the course of a single episode isnt bad either if they put in some other parts from different characters elsewhere to give the impression that time passes and its not all going on at once, which i’d guess they’d have to do if its the season finale)
    I thought that they’d do it with the battle from the south coming in really early (like episode two or three) then taking a break for an episode before the wildlings assault the wall in episodes 5 and 6, with stannis arriving and the battle lasting for 5-10 minutes at the end of episode 7. That would give them 3 episodes to do the LC election, stannis offer, and other things.
    If they do it this way though, what would be an action packed s4 at the wall (more so than any other storyline so far) would just become a one that plods massively.

  73. Sean
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    and that worked so well for B5. They had to add that strange episode at the last minute when season 5 was picked up, and hold the series finale that they had already shot for a year.

  74. DarkRavenous
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    No I never have my phone near me when I am driving, too much of a distraction. Alas I was at work, catching up on GOT news while on my break.

  75. Dornishman
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    It seems like a lot of people here underestimate how much material you can cover in a single episode.

    This time last year, fans were speculation (and even hoping) that an entire episode would be devoted to the Red Wedding. In the end we got 10-15 minutes which was the right amount of screen time.

    The battle at the Wall being so late in the season means ASOS material will spill into season 5. I would prefer the story to have moved on by then. This battle needs to happen earlier. Mance is held captive at the Wall after the battle, nothing is said about there being a battle in the article.

  76. Liz B.
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    Liz B.,

    Yeah. I know never mind. To everyone who noticed my stupidity and utter lack of knowledge of TIME…I realize my response is impossible given everything else that has to happen in Season 4. Duh.

  77. Garlan NAITS
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    Marshall’s filmography is kind of odd, but it ranges from claustrophobic horror (The Descent) to genre mashup (the pretty fun Doomsday), to Centurion (which I saw the last 2/3rds of so I’m not sure what that means). There are enough different things in those movies that I don’t think he needs to be pigeon-holed as the ‘battle director’.

    One side note – it looks like he’s directing the premiere of the Starz pirate series out in 2014, Black Flag. I was already going to watch it, but it amps up my expectations a bit.

  78. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    Whether it’s the battle, or the aftermath, or whatever, it’s still great news to bring in Neil Marshall again. That’s excellent and awesome.

  79. JamesL
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    Dornishman,

    There is no way there are going to extend ASOS material into S5, there is barley enough for S4. Most of the characters don’t even have much of a story arc left in ASOS.

  80. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    As Winter is Coming suggested, accuracy here not necessarily clear. So if the one major fact is right – Neil Marshall returns - that’s GREAT news. Period.

    The other possibility – they invert the events of ASoS, and the entire plot involving the imprisonment of Jon Snow and the election and Stannis arrival all come BEFORE the big battle and AFTER the skirmish with the Magnar/Ygritte et al. This too could make for interesting viewing – the election, “The Wall is yours, Jon Snow,” and THEN the Battle.

  81. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    Welcome back!

  82. Pau Soriano
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    There’s an extremely racist comment made by ENM in the thread about Martin comentin Pascal casting choice tha shoule be moderatet at once

  83. Jentario
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    Javi Marcos:
    Natalia Tena thinks that she won’t appear in Season 4

    http://www.cadenaser.com/catalunya/audios/natalia-tena-escena-juego-tronos-despelleje-conejos-bosque-belfast-feu-dormiu-29-06-2013/csrcsrpor/20130628csrcsrcat_24/Aes/

    That’s weird considering Rickon’s actor implied he was.

  84. Javi Marcos
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    Natalia says a lot of things in the interview, apart of that info of Season 4. The interview is in Spanish. Natalia was born in London, but her family is Spanish and speaks it perfectly.

    http://www.cadenaser.com/catalunya/audios/natalia-tena-escena-juego-tronos-despelleje-conejos-bosque-belfast-feu-dormiu-29-06-2013/csrcsrpor/20130628csrcsrcat_24/Aes/

    Speaks about her casting, that have read the book, that she loves both Brienne (her favourite character) and Gwen. Oona is also her BFF.

    All the casting met in LA to had a dinner, because some of them does not know each other, cause the act in different places. She does not know too many Lannisters XD

    Puppies direwolves were huskies. And she has learn a lot how to skin rabbits. They took some classes and after a day skinning like 30 rabbits whe became an expert. Ellie Kendrick also liked it, because she is from the north of Europe.

    She also speaks about Harry Potter and that she has not yet seen the third season. She prefers to see it 10 hours in a row, not weekly.

    She has a band (she invited Oona to the band!), and loves Chuck Berry.

  85. Ser Tahu
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    In light of this information, here are my full, detailed predictions for season 4, even down to the ordering of the scenes (it kind of goes without saying, but my livejournal post contains MAJOR SPOILERS from season 4, as well as a healthy amount of specultation :P):
    http://tahu909.livejournal.com/591.html
    The main prediction is done with the assumption that the incorrect information is the episode that Neil Marshall is directing (stemming from something along the lines of someone misquoting ‘a late episode in the season’ as ‘the last episode of the season’)

    I plan to edit the livejournal post tomorrow to include my full detailed prediction for season 5, and my slightly less full prediction for season 6 (where some stories are likely to start TWoW stuff).

    Javi Marcos,
    Ser Tahu,
    As Jentario said, Art Parkinson implied that he was, and based on how they ended season 3 it seems as if they are set up to appear. Maybe she is basing this on her book knowledge, and just hasn’t been sent the scripts yet? If it is true, though, it really throws off my prediction :P

    Also Theon kind of set a precedent in terms of characters that disappear from multiple books, so I think they will still be around.

  86. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    Javi Marcos,

    That would be most unfortunate, even though it does align with the books…sort of. There is much opportunity to explore alternate storylines with Rickon/Osha.

  87. Javi Marcos
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    Natalia’s exact words

    “I don’t think I will appear in the next season. I dont’t think so.I think I have to go there (to Belfast, I guess). But I don’t know. Everything is still a bit like a mystery. I know it but not all, not totally. ”

    She suggests that she won’t come back but she can’t explicitly tell it.

  88. John
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    For me, the final episode of each GoT season is and was always episode 09..
    Number 10 is just the ‘the roll out’ after the excitement of the episode earlier and, of course, getting characters into places for the next season and providing that way some cliffhangers.

    So, if this is true, I expect him to direct episode 09 (which should be the ‘final’)

  89. Cary Storm
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    MRR:
    I wasn’t much of a fan of the cartoonish levels of violence he brought to the show—Tyrion hacking someone’s leg off at the knee in a single blow, and much of the other scenes of gore in Blackwater, didn’t mesh especially well with how violence had previously been portrayed in the show—but I won’t deny that Blackwater was a great episode as a whole, and his larger-scale action sequences were very nice.

    Thank you. I was reading through all this adoration, and it wasn’t until I got to your post that I remembered the silliness of the non-CGI battle scenes of “Blackwater”. The lack of realism while ridiculously small numbers of people were swarming and characters were hacking off limbs really brought me out of the show more than any other point during the series.

  90. Cary Storm
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    Jentario: That’s weird considering Rickon’s actor implied he was.

    This confirms that Rickon eats Osha.

  91. Ser Tahu
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Cary Storm,
    This^

    But yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think we will still see Rickon and Osha. Theon disappeared for two books, but stayed in the show. Why can’t Rickon? Especially because they kind of hinted in season 3 that they might invent a storyline where Ramsay hunts Rickon.

  92. Jentario
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    Cary Storm: This confirms that Rickon eats Osha.

    Or Osha gets recast by the little girl from the post a few days ago. Fake Arya my ass, that’s Osha right there!!!!!!!!!!!!1

  93. Valdred Dethstorm
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    Cary Storm: Thank you.I was reading through all this adoration, and it wasn’t until I got to your post that I remembered the silliness of the non-CGI battle scenes of “Blackwater”. Thelack of realism while ridiculously small numbers of people were swarming and characters were hacking off limbs really brought me out of the show more than any other point during the series.

    While I respect your opinion, we have to remember that they had a limited budget, and Marshall was brought on board at the last minute. At least we had an actual battle and not just characters commenting on it, as it was originally planned.

  94. WompWomp
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Ollie:
    I think it’s ridiculous to assume that just because Marshall directed a big battle episode before, he must be doing another one in S4.What is there to suggest that directors can only direct one type of episode? It’s ridiculous.

    Not ridiculous at all. It’s actually an informed guess. Marshall was brought in precisely because he has the chops for battles on a budget, and the success of Blackwater only cements that reputation. His acumen for directing battles preceded Game of Thrones. It’s an established specialty of his, and to deny that would only betray ignorance of his filmography.

  95. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    Cary Storm,

    For me, “Blackwater” was brilliant due to one small scene…that of Bronn firing a burning arrow from his longbow to ignite the wildfire. One excellent example of how the show compliments the books with its own original brilliance.

  96. WompWomp
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    Cary Storm,

    If you thought the de-legging was bad, wait until you hear Peter Dinklage’s inglorious admission that the stunt double was an old amputee. It was in an interview where he discusses the lapse between his character’s reputation and the reality of filming. Goes to show some of the best connections most of the actors have to their characters shines in their conversations.

  97. Cary Storm
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    Note I point to the “non-CGI” scenes. Bronn firing the arrow is, of course, IMHO, not included in that category

  98. Cary Storm
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    Valdred Dethstorm,

    This is not so much an opinion as much as it is what actually occurred to my viewing experience. I appreciate the show sometimes has a limited budget. But sitting there while watching–especially after some awesome CGI effects–and saying, “oh, that particular awfulness must be because of the limited budget” makes the experience less enjoyable to the viewer.

  99. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    Cary Storm,

    I’ll have to watch it again but what was “CGI” about the “Bronn-firing-the-arrow” scene?

  100. Arthur
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    I bet you it’s not accurate in the sense that the episode will be more like 404 rather then 410.

  101. Summer Is Coming
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    If Neil Marshall directs ep 10, then I want Alex Graves for ep 8 and 9! (The Duel and Tywin doesn’t shit gold)

  102. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    Great news!
    I stand by my theory that Stannis and Melisandre will get to the wall early in season 4, long before the battle. I also think Davos will e there. In the books he has nothing to do for a while and they probably don’t want to was Liam Cunningham. I think the LC election and Stannis settling in and ordering everyone will be mid-season. The interactions between Jon and Stannis and Jon and Melisandre are priceless. Some of my favorite interactions in the whole series. It’s already been made clear in the season 3 finale that team Dragonstone are headed north. The surprise save during the battle is unnecessary. There is no way they are going to cut all those people out of most of the season.

  103. Vikestad
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    Neil Marshall is too white.

  104. Arthur
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    Vikestad,

    Hahaha!

    Oh no save that talk for the Dorne threads. Don’t antagonize them!

  105. the other guy
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    Episode 10 ? That’s a surprise. I expected him to return for a Blackwater-style Battle at the Wall in episode 9, ending with Stannis coming to rescue the NW (which would perfectly mirror Tywin rescuing the Lannister army at KL in S02E09). Now, either this report did not get the info right, and it’s in fact ep9 that Marshall is directing (my opinion), or they’re actually planing on changing the episode 9 pattern, and the climax of the season will be in episode 10 (that would not be good IMO). Either way, as long as we see an LS cliffhanger to end S4, I’m fine with everything they do. Just don’t cut that, and I’ll be fine with all the rest.

  106. Cary Storm
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    Practically everything right after he fires the arrow…

  107. darquemode
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    I’m surprised so many people though the Battle of the Wall would take place before Episode 4.09! It seems like the most logical finale moment to me.

    They can backfill some Wildling moments using Mance or Ygritte as a POV. That would allow for the introduction of Styr, and maybe Dalla and Val etc…

    Having the battle as the finale (Ep 9) also makes sense timing wise in my mind as it allows both Cersei and Jon to come into power at the same time. Either Episode 4.10 or 5.01. I have always suspected that those two along with Dany will follow similar arcs in Season 5 with each central character learning to deal with their new found power and dealing with the troubles associated with ruling.

    I’m pulling back on Day somewhat as I have no idea what they will do with her arc in Season 4…. However I still think they will follow that chronology for Jon an Cersei.

  108. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Hm, season 3 already spun through 2/3′s of ASOS. Are they going to spin out the last 1/3 for an entire season? A bunch of characters will be going nowhere, just waiting for their cues. Or living through invented storylines. Given that GRRM and co have said that AFFC/ADWD will creep into the end of season 4, I doubt Marshall’s doing episode 10 – if it’s the Wall battle that is, which takes place roughly 2 chapters after Jon’s return to Castle Black. So I wonder what Jon will be doing for so damn long. I thought they’d be shaking up the formula this season and give us the Wall Battle much earlier, like mid-season, and deal with the fallout afterwards.

    Good to hear Marshall’s prepping already. If he’s doing the wall battle then there’s a lot of effects to be prepared for, like giants storming the gates.

  109. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    Cary Storm,

    Ugh…I was only referencing the firing of the arrow….(I stated “small scene” not the rest).

  110. WompWomp
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh,

    Ian Whyte was a wanting Mountain, but his giant was excellent. The dismissive sniff really sold that bit for me.

  111. Jentario
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    Summer Is Coming:
    If Neil Marshall directs ep 10, then I want Alex Graves for ep 8 and 9! (The Duel and Tywin doesn’t shit gold)

    I believe and hope that Tywin won’t shit gold in episode 10. It’s the best finale moment ever along with “only Cat” and LS. It would make the best finale to date by far.

  112. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh,

    I firmly believe that the remaining sections of ASoS (and remember they have Balon’s stuff to address) plus some non-POV craftily-created show-only stuff will fill the season nicely. I hope they delve into AFfC/ADwD stuff only briefly (as necessary for a few threads) and save it for S5.

  113. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    There is without a doubt enough material from ‘ASOS’ at the Wall and in King’s Landing that will easily last the entire season. The same goes for Littlefinger/Sansa at the Vale. Material from AFFC/ADWD or created stuff for the show will need to be used for the other storylines.

  114. Seonaidh Ceanneidigh
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp:
    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh,

    Ian Whyte was a wanting Mountain, but his giant was excellent. The dismissive sniff really sold that bit for me.

    Agreed. He’s a wonderful creature actor: Predator, the Engineer in Prometheus (where he looked far bulkier than he did in GoT), and other assorted monsters.

    Hodor’s Bastard:
    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh,

    I firmly believe that the remaining sections of ASoS (and remember they have Balon’s stuff to address) plus some non-POV craftily-created show-only stuff will fill the season nicely. I hope they delve into AFfC/ADwD stuff only briefly (as necessary for a few threads) and save it for S5.

    I just can’t imagine what they’ll do to stall Jon if the battle is in ep 9 or 10. A lot of invented stuff, it seems, or a re-arranging of material (a trial led by Janos Slynt and Thorne?) As for the other characters, it’ll be mostly invented save for King’s Landing, which has a lot of material left. I can imagine nothing but original stuff to pad out Bran’s arc: maybe a stay at Crasters and an attack by wight-Mormont, then Coldhands.

  115. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Totally agree. Actually (as I’ve surmised in some detail before…some 32465 comments ago), for s4 I am looking forward to the show-only side storylines that they have hinted at during s3.

  116. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    Seonaidh Ceanneidigh,

    Yeah, for some storylines it will be a challenge, but I hope it is a challenge they take. Regarding Bran..oh the possibilities…as a warg, with interaction with all sorts of denizens of the north (wights, WWs, Others, Children of the Forest, missing characters), to discover (from the audience perspective) why the wall is there, the magic involved…maybe a Benjen sighting… I guess you can argue that I am projecting TWoW stuff in my wishful thinking but Bran is a character that has a chance to be “omnipotent” and a great 3rd-eye on all things in Westeros and beyond…(imho). I would love for Bran, Hodor!, and J&M to run into all sorts of evil/magical things as he pursues Bloodraven/3-eyed crow.

    Regarding Stannis’ storyline, I feel that there is a huge opportunity for “beyond-the-wall” backstory as well, especially with Mel in the mix.

  117. MRR
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    Valdred Dethstorm: While I respect your opinion, we have to remember that they had a limited budget, and Marshall was brought on board at the last minute. At least we had an actual battle and not just characters commenting on it, as it was originally planned.

    It was absolutely not just a matter of a limited budget.

    Neil Marshall is known first and foremost as a horror director, and one who has made particularly gory use of practical effects in the past. He is known for doing practical effects on a limited budget, but zero heads being sliced in two (no matter how cheap) is still less expensive than what’s actually in the episode. If you watch the commentary and behind the scenes features on the DVD it’s clear that Marshall was eager to include those scenes; it was a creative decision and not just a matter of a limited budget.

  118. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard:
    Cary Storm,

    For me, “Blackwater” was brilliant due to one small scene…that of Bronn firing a burning arrow from his longbow to ignite the wildfire. One excellent example of how the show compliments the books with its own original brilliance.

    Yes, that moment is one of the great bad-ass moments of the entire series.

    As for the limbs, other than the Tyrion “sweep the leg, Johnny” moment, the rest I found believable. Sandor Clegane is meant to be freakishly strong, so him cutting one guy in half and giving another guy the Tim Roth in Rob Roy treatment seemed perfectly fine to me. Ok, Stannis chopping that head off, but hell, it’s Valyrian steel! It does not know of your puny iron ways!

  119. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    Greatjon of Slumber,

    Oh, now I have to watch that episode again, dammit! Making a bowl of brown as I type….(actually some minestrone soup)

  120. Selmy
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    King DBC,

    I agree completely. As much as I love some of the stuff in DWD it did feel like it kind of built to nothing. An enjoyable season should definitely end with the Battle in the Ice.

  121. MRR
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    Greatjon of Slumber,

    It wasn’t quite as bad when it was The Hound, but it was still bad. Bodies don’t just topple over like that.

    And has it ever been confirmed that Stannis’ Lightbringer is Valyrian steel? (Books or otherwise.)

  122. H. Stark
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    John, Emilia, Nikolaj, Peter, Michelle, Richard, Kit and Rose in the Comic-Con!

    http://www.comingsoon.net/news/gamenews.php?id=106174

  123. Sam's pink mast
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    This has got to be one of the most redacted comment threads I’ve seen so far. Top secret. Hush hush.

  124. Al Swearengen
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    Yes YEs YES!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you.

    Hmm that must mean that the battle at the wall will carry over into episode 10. I wonder if this also means the duel will happen during this episode too.

    Good news, lets put all this Dorne crap behind us now!

  125. sunspear
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Ok, seriously, did nobody read the update saying the information wasn’t accurate? People are still taking it for a certainty that the battle will happen in episode 10 eight hours after WiC told everyone to calm down. Anyway, after reading some of the comments on here, I would just like to make this statement:

    If you say you want everything left in ASOS to take up the entire season (or possibly stretch into Season 5 for the LC election), you are not allowed to complain that AFFC/ADWD were too plodding. There is simply no logical way to defend this. (Ser Tahu, you have made it clear that you want plenty of episodes devoted to books 4/5, so don’t think this is directed at you).

  126. WildSeed
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard:
    Winter Is Coming,

    Folks are assuming Mr. Marshall is the battle guy. I think that isa bit presumptuous. He may be directing for another aspect of the series altogether, to expand his own horizons.

    Also, please note that for “Blackwater” Mr. Marshall was given a superb script by the master himself. He will need a decent script to work with, but with so much going on at the end os ASoS (if indeed he is doing the finale) the script will be packed with excitement.

    [edit: after a re-read of the comments, it seems many others have assumed this as well]

    True, even directors don’t like being typecast . Glad WiC updated the subject post.

  127. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    sunspear,

    I won’t complain, I promise.

    (fingers crossed)

  128. Al Swearengen
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    I saw the update and choose to ignore it. D & D would be fools not to bring Neil back for S4, he should have been brought back for S3 but for whatever reason they ignored him.

  129. Jeff O'Connor
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    People aren’t really debating Neil’s involvement. They’re under the (potentially incorrect, but reasonably sound) assumption that the “not entirely accurate” statement from WiC’s trusted source suggests the battle will take place in the ninth episode as opposed to the tenth is all.

  130. Khal-A-Bunga
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    I think the seventh episode would be an ideal place for this event; the eight, at the very latest. I don’t think it would work, at all, in the finale, and given everything else that has to happen later in the season, I doubt it would work all that well in the ninth episode, either.

  131. Al Swearengen
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    Jeff O’Connor,

    Ahh cool. Personally I don’t mind which episode Neil directs I just want him back :-)

  132. Al Swearengen
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    Khal-A-Bunga,

    I would like to see them mix things up and not have the major events happen in ep 9 every season, it’s becoming too predictable.

  133. Uther Greenshirt
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    his commentary was awesome at black water bay….cant wait to see what he can do in his episode.

    tyron and father will be 9, the wall 10, i think they will wait for Stoneheart to come back and the election will be good to add to season in the 5th season. Stannis Arya and Dani will need some added adventures in the 4th season while they can finally do Ricoh and Osha properly. GRRM seems to want to expand Osha’s role he might expand a few others. Do we know Jon has been killed? I have a feeling GRRM might actually have him survive so we might be able to discover (he is a stark/targ).

  134. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    Which major event are you referring to? [Yes, I believe I know...just making a point] This season there is going to be at least 5 (maybe more) major events that are hugely significant in terms of storylines, violence and character development.

  135. Al Swearengen
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    The Wall
    It’s the most obvious event they would use Neil for. Personally I’d rather see him direct the duel perhaps Neil could use some magic camera trickery to make Ian Whyte badass and keep me from wishing Conan Stevens still played The Mountain.

  136. Joshua Taylor
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen,

    I think it will be different because it is really the end of the first act of ASOIAF.They will buck the trend this year. The Wall will be episode 9 and the UnSullied will be blown away and then preparing for a quiet finale and then bam! Mountain vs RV, Jorah exiled, Jon elected LC, Tywin dead, Tyrion escapes and finally “only Cat” leading to the Lady Stoneheart reveal. Epic.

  137. Al Swearengen
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    That would kick so much ass Josh, I hope your idea comes true.

  138. King DBC
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    I really like your predictions, but I’m worried that Dany’s storyline seems like quite a repeat of hers in S3. Meeting and treating with the slavers and exchanging gifts. And her dragons made no promises… Then sending her bestest warriors in on a gamble and the sellswords surrender. Your post made me realize that her storyline needs some changes to not fall into this trap…

  139. Bard
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor: Al Swearengen,

    I think it will be different because it is really the end of the first act of ASOIAF.They will buck the trend this year. The Wall will be episode 9 and the UnSullied will be blown away and then preparing for a quiet finale and then bam! Mountain vs RV, Jorah exiled, Jon elected LC, Tywin dead, Tyrion escapes and finally “only Cat” leading to the Lady Stoneheart reveal. Epic.

    Oberyn vs. the Mountain in episode 10 seems a bit late though with Tyrions subsequent escape and his murder of Tywin and Shae in the very same episode. And you can’t press Jons election into one single episode. “Only cat” and LS would be great however.

  140. Syrio
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    The inaccuracy is probably that it’s not episode 10.

  141. Easteros bunny
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    YES! This better be true!

    NM had one of the best episodes of thrones so far..

    And to the person who suggested the “thing” be split over 2-3 episodes..no…just no

  142. Khal-A-Bunga
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    Way too late on a lot of that. I’m hoping it plays out more along the lines of:

    Episode 7: The battle at the Wall; Stannis arrives and overwhelms the wildling forces. The event with Arya & The Hound at the inn also occurs, earlier in the episode.

    Episode 8: The duel between Oberyn & The Mountain occurs at the end of this episode, and Tyrion is sentenced to death. Arya also leaves Sandor to die, and isn’t seen again until the finale.

    Episode 9: Sam (and whomever else) work to get Jon elected as the 998th Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch, while Stannis offers to legitimize Jon and make him Lord of Winterfell. Jaime releases Tyrion, who then kills both Shae & Tywin to end the episode.

    Episode 10: Arya boards a ship to Braavos. Tyrion boards a ship to Pentos. Several characters in King’s Landing reacts to the news of the death of Tywin. Dany banishes Jorah. Jon is elected and accepts the position of Lord Commander. Bran reaches the cave of the three-eyed raven. Sansa builds a castle made of snow; “Only Cat.” is the penultimate scene before the season ends with Lady Stoneheart.

    It’s also likely Joffrey & Ygritte dying will end their respective episodes. Balon dying may also end an episode. One of the things that really worked in the first season, is that almost every episode (other than the 3rd and 8th) had a great pretty big game-changing ending. I think season four will replicate that, in a lot of ways.

    In any case, I think it would be a waste to structure the season in such a way that it led to a finale like that. There’s plenty of epic moments to go around, so it’s in their best interest to maximize their effect by giving them the focus they deserve.

  143. Javi Marcos
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    Pau Soriano,

    And there is a anti-constitutional flag in your avatar…

  144. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    Javi Marcos:
    Pau Soriano,

    And there is a anti-constitutional flag in your avatar…

    Visca el Barça i visca Catalunya !

  145. outdoorcats
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    …but, I’m not getting too worked up, I promise.

    Also, assuming the report on the specific episode turns out to be true, we shouldn’t jump to conclusions that this is a ‘battle’ episode just because that was what he did. It’s not like Neil Marshall was known for directing battle sequences before Blackwater. He was known as a fantastic and artful genre director famous for getting things done with shoestring budgets and still making professional-looking films. The Descent is one of the best horror films I’ve ever seen and it looked like it cost far more than it did. So he’s fantastic for any episode of GoT, particularly one with a big setpiece of some kind.

    It’s possible they could have the final stage of the Battle of the Wall in the finale (Stannis to the rescue), but they’d have to cram Jon’s election in there even if that happened at the very beginning. Jon’s election as Lord Commander makes for a natural cliffhanger to end the season; it’s hard to imagine them pushing it to Season 5. Maybe they’ll excise Sam’s whole campaign :( and make Jon the surprise victor. Or maybe the finale will be extra long, closer to 90 minutes than 60. Or maybe Neil wasn’t brought on to direct any battle sequences anyway, just for his direction skills. Or maybe the report is incorrect and he isn’t directing episode 10. Hopefully we’ll find more details soon! Can’t wait!

  146. outdoorcats
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    This is all based on the assumption that Neil Marshall would never be brought on to direct something other than a battle sequence. I don’t get it. Why?

    Were his ‘dramatic’ scenes in the Red Keep in Blackwater not good enough? They demonstrated some of the best directing (and acting) of the show, IMO.

  147. GibsonExplorer
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    WHAT ABOUT ALAN TAYLOR??

  148. Daniru
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

    For all we know it might rush way ahead and actually be talking about Mance’s ‘execution’ which is near the start of ADWD. And although many people expect him to be directing another ‘Blackwater’, I’m sure Mr Marshall can direct non battle episodes.

  149. Jeff O'Connor
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    GibsonExplorer:
    WHAT ABOUT ALAN TAYLOR??

    We always knew he’d likely be unavailable for two years due to his obligations with the Thor sequel.

  150. Ser Tahu
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    King DBC,
    The whole point I was trying to make with that was to juxtapose the situation with Yunkai, because at a glance (as you have demonstrated) they look quite similar, but then they really play out quite differently. My concern if they adapt the book version of Meereen to the show is that I think the whole thing where each side sends out a lone champion would kind of be anti-climactic. And then they have already used the whole send a small force into the city and make it fall from the inside thing for Yunkai, while leaving out the battle from the books where one sellsword company is too drunk to fight. So unlike the books, Yunkai came to a relatively peaceful resolution in the show, so in my prediction Meereen comes to a very bloody resolution to contrast with Yunkai’s peaceful one.

    So in my prediction, assuming they use the parts of Yunkai they left out from the books for Meereen, is this: In both cities it starts out the same with Daenerys meeting the leaders, but in Yunkai they initially tried to make peace, while in Meereen they walk in there with no intention of making peace. In Yunkai, her enemies turn to her side (Daario and the Second Sons), while in Meereen her friends turn against her (Jorah). In Yunkai she sends in a few men on a small covert mission to take the city and avoid a full on battle, while in Meereen she accepts the battle as an inevitability and uses tricks to swing the battle in her favour. In Yunkai she remains outside the city and her terms are met, while in Meereen she has to storm the gates and take the city by force. In Yunkai she rewards the slaves, while in Meereen she punishes the slavers. And finally, after she defeats Yunkai she moves on, leaving it mostly untouched, while after she defeats Meereen she decides to rule the city herself. That’s why my prediction for Meereen looks like a repetition of Yunkai at a glance; because they are two very similar situations with two very different outcomes, and I want D&D to highlight that fact. :P

  151. Ser Tahu
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    So basically this is what we know as far as directing is concerned for season 4:
    - David Nutter will not be directing, as he is taking a year off from GoT. (which is a shame, because I wanted him to direct Oberyn vs Gregor).
    - Neil Marshall will be directing at least one episode (I hope he is directing two) that could be the season finale but probably isn’t, and he is likely to direct the siege of the Wall

    Directors that I want to return:
    - Alik Sakharov
    - Alan Taylor
    - Alex Graves
    - anyone who directed anything in season 1.

    outdoorcats,
    I think it is a safe assumption, given that they brought him in at the last second for Blackwater solely because of his reputation for battle scenes. And also (unless D&D screw up in their writing) the siege of the Wall should NOT have an entire episode to it, it should be spread over 2-3 episodes, so there will be plenty of other drama in the episode for Neil to film.

  152. outdoorcats
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

    WompWomp,

    That’s a bit of an exaggeration, no? The only film of his with battle scenes is Centurion. I would say Marshall is more famous for getting ALL of his films done on extremely low budgets and making them look more expensive than they were – whether they be horror (Dog Soldiers, The Descent) or action (Doomsday).

    Ser Tahu,

    I have never heard this in commentaries or whatever, only that he was brought in because of his legendary skill in working with low budgets and making the most of them (also, he’s buddies with Liam Cunningham). Of course battle scenes is one of those skills. But I’ve always heard Benioff and Weiss cite The Descent, not Centurion, as the film they thought of when considering Marshall, for what it’s worth.

    I think it’s possible Marshall could be directing the last stage of the battle, but it will be spread out over at least several episodes, so in the end we agree in this regard.

    Post-script – if we’re making director wishlists I’ll list Susanna White once again, based on her incredible work on Generation Kill and Bleak House (with Charles Dance!!)

  153. Ser Tahu
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    outdoorcats,
    I don’t mind either way, as long as the siege of the Wall is spread over multiple episodes. But I do think that the incorrect part of the article is likely to be the bit about it being the finale, just because I don’t see how they could delay Stannis and his group arriving until the finale. In fact, I believe it is a little bit of a stretch to delay them until episode 8, which is my prediction.

  154. pntrlqst
    Posted July 5, 2013 at 11:49 pm | Permalink

    Really hope he’s directing episode six. My personal season four has the first three episodes setting up most storylines, four through six dealing mostly with the siege at the wall, seven through nine mainly focused on Tyrion’s trial, trial by combat, and kinslaying, and the finale wrapping everything up.

    401: Red Viper
    Introduction of Red Viper

    402: Growing Strong
    Meereen taunts Dany w/ Crucified slaves, Theon attempts to flee with Kyra(?) but Ramsey captures, Purple Wedding.

    403: Oathkeeper
    Jaime gives Oathkeep to Brienne, Jaime reads over the Kingsguard history book thing.

    404: It Rhymes with Freak
    Siege of Meereen and exile of Jorah, Attack at Castle Black and Ygritte’s death, Yara attempts to save Theon but he is so broken he refuses (see false escape in 402).

    405: I Will Not March
    Dany stays in Meereen, Oberyn threesome, Wall siege begins, Arya finds Needle and kills Polliver.

    406: The Horn of Winter
    Battle at the Wall, Stannis arrives.

    407: Kingsmoot
    Tyrion’s trial begins, Shae’s betrayal, Kingsmoot, Littlefinger and Lysa wedding, beginning of LC election.

    408: Say Her Name
    Trial by combat, Arya leaves Sandor for dead and boards ship for Braavos, Jon elected LC.

    409: Wherever Whores Go
    Tyrion kills Tywin and Shae. Brienne vs Brave Companions(?) and meets Gendry, Jon turns down Stannis’s offer.

    410: Mother Merciless
    Jon executes Janos Slynt, Dany chains up her dragons, Arya enters House of B&W, Only Cat, Lady Stoneheart.

  155. Pau Soriano
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 12:24 am | Permalink

    Javi Marcos:
    Pau Soriano,

    And there is a anti-constitutional flag in your avatar…

    Lol are you for real? Go read the constitution and show me where do they mention my avatar at all XD

    Yeah I didn’t thin so ;)

    Hodor’s Bastard: Visca el Barça i visca Catalunya !

    Visca! :-D

  156. Ser Tahu
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 12:54 am | Permalink

    pntrlqst,
    Yeahhh… I would be willing to bet very large sums of money that it won’t play out like that at all. Your prediction doesn’t leave enough time to establish Oberyn Martell’s friendship with Tyrion before Tyrion is arrested, I don’t see them having Theon try and escape, as they already played that card in season 3. Your quick movement of the Daenerys storyline will cause major problems later on with the Meereenese knot, the siege of the Wall is a siege, not a battle, D&D would be foolish to treat it like one and have it take up the entirety of just one episode like Blackwater did. It will likely be spread over multiple episodes. If the fight at the inn happens in episode 5, why would Arya not leave Sandor until episode 8?

    My highly detailed predictions, even down to the order of the scenes, can be found here (And it should go without saying that there are MAJOR BOOK SPOILERS, so unsullied should not go there):
    http://tahu909.livejournal.com/591.html
    I am currently in the process of typing up my predictions for season 5.

  157. loco73
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 3:16 am | Permalink

    Well that would indeed be welcomed news! Neil Marshall did a fantastic job with “Blackwater”!!! This guy has really shown his pedigree! Frankly he should direct more than one episode if possible! Not only that, but HBO should really add him to their roster of go-to directors. I’d like to see what he could do with a “Boardwalk Empire” episode or even “True Blood”!!

    I’m keeping my fingers crossed and hope that this turns out to be true…I want him back!

    PS Now if we could get Conan Stevens back as The Mountain That Rides…all would be gravy!

  158. loco73
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 3:20 am | Permalink

    Anyone heard anything about Tim Van Patten? Is there a chance that he might come back to GoT and direct? Another director I’d like to see be given a chance is Jeremy Podeswa, he would also be a fine addition!

    PS Can we get Ana Torv on the show also? Pleeeeeeaseeee!!!!!

  159. King DBC
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 5:00 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,
    Yeah, that makes it seems better. I have actually done the same thing, made like a layout of future seasons…. Would you mind checking them out and telling me what you think? I’ve done Season 5 too…
    iAlien

    via (Spoilers All) “Seasons 4 & 5 Outline” – Best Reddit Client for iOS
    http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1f8fpo/spoilers_all_seasons_4_5_outline/
    I like your predictions, so I’d also like to see what you think of mine, they’re sort of similar. Though I haven’t taken into consideration stuff that changed, like Jaime already in King’s Landing…

    I’d appreciate some feedback.

  160. Bard
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 5:22 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu: pntrlqst,Yeahhh… I would be willing to bet very large sums of money that it won’t play out like that at all. Your prediction doesn’t leave enough time to establish Oberyn Martell’s friendship with Tyrion before Tyrion is arrested, I don’t see them having Theon try and escape, as they already played that card in season 3. Your quick movement of the Daenerys storyline will cause major problems later on with the Meereenese knot, the siege of the Wall is a siege, not a battle, D&D would be foolish to treat it like one and have it take up the entirety of just one episode like Blackwater did. It will likely be spread over multiple episodes. If the fight at the inn happens in episode 5, why would Arya not leave Sandor until episode 8?

    My highly detailed predictions, even down to the order of the scenes, can be found here (And it should go without saying that there are MAJOR BOOK SPOILERS, so unsullied should not go there):http://tahu909.livejournal.com/591.htmlI am currently in the process of typing up my predictions for season 5.

    Well, although there are certainly some good ideas among them, I wouldn’t bet too much money on many of your “high detailed predictions ” either. I think in the end no prediction will be 100% correct (or even close). Especially because they will probably change some storylines (Yara, Theon, Arya and the Hound, Bran) to a considerable degree.

  161. Ser Tahu
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 5:50 am | Permalink

    Bard,
    Aside from the stuff you already mentioned I had only two problems with it:
    1) There is no context to Oberyn showing up, he just rocks up out of the blue
    2) The idea that AFfC/ADwD will be be almost completely covered in season 5 (so many important scenes are left out that way) :P. I personally believe that AFfC will be mostly finished in season 5, but the remaining ADwD material will take up around half of season 6 (depending on the storyline).
    I am about to continue updating my predictions to finish of seasons 5 and 6, so if you check back every now and then, I will have some more of my episode predictions up.

    Bard,
    Hence why I called them predictions :P. They are just what I think will happen

  162. Bard
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 6:13 am | Permalink

    I am about to continue updating my predictions to finish of seasons 5 and 6, so if you check back every now and then, I will have some more of my episode predictions up.

    I’m looking forward to that, because I’m racking my brain over season 5 too at the moment.

  163. Ser Tahu
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 6:41 am | Permalink

    Bard,

    I have it all in a spreadsheet, so it’s just a matter of typing it up and working out the order of the scenes. But I am slightly delayed because it turns out my King’s Landing prediction wasn’t very good, so I’m having to tweak it a bit -_-.

  164. outdoorcats
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    I dunno about establishing Tyrion and The Red Viper’s friendship before the RW, though. No such thing was done in the books, they only form an uneasy sort of alliance after he is imprisoned, because it gives Oberyn a chance for revenge against the Mountain. He doesn’t become Tyrion’s champion because he likes him. In the books Tyrion and Oberyn have their one meeting outside KL as he arrives, which ends on a bit of a hostile note, and then the Purple Wedding happens. So the PW could very well happen in episode 2, the one GRRM is writing.

  165. Ser Tahu
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    Bard,
    I have the predictions for the next two episodes up.

    outdoorcats,
    Ok, maybe they don’t need to establish a friendship with Tyrion. But they do need to set up the context for why Oberyn is coming to King’s Landing, as well as all of the pre-wedding, like Joffrey hinting at his role in Bran’s assassination and destroying Tyrion’s gift. So realistically, I don’t see Joffrey’s wedding happing before episode 3. And even though, I believe that they will achieve the greatest flow of events by having it in episode 4.

  166. Joshua Taylor
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    loco73,

    Yes! Anna Torv for Val!

  167. Joshua Taylor
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    Season 4 episode names I would love to see:

    Hear Me Roar
    Last of the Giants
    The Crow’s Eye
    Horn of Winter
    Growing Strong
    Unbowed Unbent Unbroken
    From this Day until my Last Day
    Only…

  168. Ser Tahu
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,
    Good list. From my episode predictions over at livejournal (http://tahu909.livejournal.com/591.html) here are what I’m hoping the episode titles will be in order (and why the episode has that title in brackets):
    Season 4:
    For the Realm (Tywin tries to stabilise the realm)
    The Red Viper (his arrival at King’s Landing)
    Silence (Euron crowns himself)
    Hear Me Roar (Joffrey’s Wedding, the title is ironic because he is choking and can’t speak)
    Reek (YarAsha loses to the Boltons)
    The Wall is Yours (the siege begins)
    Stormcrows (Daenerys defeats Meereen and the Stormcrows)
    The Horn of Winter (Stannis arrives at the Wall)
    Say Her Name (Oberyn vs Gregor)
    A Lannister Always Pays His Debts (Tyrion’s escape)

    Season 5:
    Lord of Winterfell (Stannis offers to make Jon Lord of Winterfell)
    Salt and Rock (the Kingsmoot)
    And Now His Watch Begins (Jon is elected Lord Commander)
    Chains (The Dragons are chained)
    Sons of the Harpy (Daenerys will marry Hizdahr if he can stop the murders)
    Sparrows and Sorrows (the High Sparrow and the stone men)
    The Queenmaker (Arianne’s failed attempt to crown Myrcella)
    The Windblown (Quentyn signs a contract with the Windblown)
    Three Eyed Raven (Bran meets Bloodraven)
    Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken (“Justice, Vengeance, Fire and Blood”)

    Season 6 (based on the ADwD material that I think will be in the season, so TWoW could change things):
    The Golden Company (Aegon hires the Golden Company)
    Weirwood (Bran wargs into the tree and speaks to Theon through it)
    The Kraken’s Daughter (Stannis defeats YarAsha and takes her captive)
    Dark Flame (Victarion rescues Moqorro from the wreckage)
    The Dragontamer (Daenerys riders Drogon. Misleading, I know :P)
    The Spider (Varys returns and kills Kevan and Pycelle)
    Remember Your Name (Theon is reunited with YarAsha)
    Oathbreaker (Bowen Marsh accuses Jon of breaking his vows)
    Dracarys (Quentyn is set alight by Rhaegal)
    For the Watch (Jon is killed by Bowen Marsh)

  169. Jeff O'Connor
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    Offhand I can’t quite detail all the reasoning, but I have a strong feeling the “Jon thing” isn’t happening that late.

  170. Bard
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    First of all I want to applaude you for all your efforts (so far), it’s a great job. However, I fear that there are too many storylines (characters, scenes per episode…) and the pacing is far too slow if you stretch ADWD over two seasons. Season 5 won’t have a real climax and hardly any highlights. There are so many council meetings, discussions, characters who talk about events happening somewhere else…I fear the average viewer will get bored and lose interest in the show, which will affect the ratings in a negative way. I think they’ll have to put more ADWD stuff into season 5 and cut/condense even more storylines than you did in your predictions (Brienne, Victarion or Quentin come to mind). But, as I said, it’s a great job and an interesting read nevertheless.

  171. MRR
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu: But they do need to set up the context for why Oberyn is coming to King’s Landing

    A wedding invitation seems simple enough for that.

  172. Zack
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    MRR,

    Indeed. The King’s wedding would be a huge event, it’s natural the heads of the kingdom’s provinces would be in attendance.

  173. Ser Tahu
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

    Bard,
    I must admit that it is a rather political section of the books :P. But I don’t think that too many viewers will be scared off by frequent council meetings and courts, as that was essentially Eddard’s storyline in season 1. And I believe that you, and many others, overestimate how much damage one not-so-action-packed season will do. Sons of Anarchy, Dexter and Breaking Bad all not only survived, but grew, in seasons that were widely accepted to be terrible compared to what had come before them. And even though my projected season 5 doesn’t have any battles, it still has more action scenes than season 1 did :P.

    Also, I will defend Quentyn to the death, I loved his chapters :P.

    MRR,
    That does work for getting Oberyn there, yes. However, without the council seat you screw up some stuff that happens later on (the Sand Snake being sent to King’s Landing). But then I guess the workaround for that could be Kevan offering them the seat to stabilise the realm when he takes over the capital.

    Now, back to finishing my predictions :P.

  174. WildSeed
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    Yeah, I reasoned for a moment about that seat on the Small Council,
    But I don’t consider it a crucial detail in CEO Tywin Lannisters boardroom.
    True, ser Kevan will have to come up with another fitting strategy, the
    continuity of the script will demand that something makes sense of it.
    I’m sure the writers have this figured out by now………. right (?)

  175. Ser Tahu
    Posted July 6, 2013 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,
    I’m sure that D&D know what they are doing as far as the plot is concerned. The big question for me is whether they decide to cut complete storylines from AFfC and ADwD, or whether they try and show everything (it is a given that a lot of storylines will be truncated and streamlined either way).

  176. Chickenduck
    Posted July 7, 2013 at 12:12 am | Permalink

    To those complaining of unrealistic visual hackings in Blackwater, I’ll say this:

    In Blackwater, I had no issue with any of the hacking off of limbs etc. Maybe a little corny, with Tyrion’s leg amputation etc, but I might have been desensitised by too many Hong Kong kung fu movies and Tarantino. So Blackwater got the thumbs up from me.

    HOWEVER – In some other parts of the show, I did have issues with bad visuals pulling me out of the zone. Two in particular.

    1) the melting of the gold by Drogo and subsequent pouring over Viserys’ head in S1. I mean, it melted like chocolate. How freaking hot is a cooking fire supposed to be? Then it set like Ice Magic. Also, he shouldn’t have died in just seconds from that… It would more realistically take a good couple of minutes of writing in agony, at least.

    But that one I think is actually an issue of GRRM having written it that way. The way it’s described in the book simply wouldn’t work unless Drogo had a blast furnace ready to get the metal up to a significantly higher temperature than a cooking fire will give you.

    They DID joke about it on the special features on the DVDs though, from memory… said something about it being “special Dothraki gold”.

    2) Orell’s posthumous eagle attack on Jon. It looked like a chicken was being thrown at him. Can’t forgive that one…

    But hey, it’s a fantasy series with Dragons and stuff, I try not to overthink it too much.

  177. MCAJayhawk
    Posted July 7, 2013 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    What an odd looking man.

  178. kevin1989
    Posted July 7, 2013 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    Davy,

    That will be the other way around. Look at the story. They already progressed Stannis story in season 3 much quicker than expected. And also the story of Theon. That means that there’s a reason for that. They even progressed the cercei storyline. Everything in Westeros will end much quicker than expected. But for Battle of Mereen. A lot need to happen. Tyrion needs to go there. And his Dance story can’t be in season 5 it need to be split in 2 seasons. and you can say, Danny storyline needs to be faster but does she need to be at the battle, no she isn’t in the books either.
    Season 4 will end every SoS storyline. Feast: cercei/marg story and finding the body of Tywin. Maybe brienne. Maybe dorne and kings moot. Of dance, a part of Theon’s arc. Probably the wedding and danny putting her dragons in the pit, and maybe the introduction of Eagon in the final.
    Season 5 will end the whole FfC stories. And of Dance it will end everything except The mereen plot and it will end the battle in the ice. How will the mereen plot be in the show? I think that season 5 will end Tyrion at some point with Jorah, or when he meet Penny or when he’s captured by slaversm they need to have an Eagon/Tyrion bromance. Quentyn will be with Danny. Eagon is in westeros (season5 ending with varys?). Danny just married Hizdahr. Season 6 it can start with the fighting pit scenes. Dany can meet the dothraki around episode 4. The battle can be at episode 9.

    About Jon in season 4. We don’t know when the battle is. It can be episode 4 for all we know. Doesn’t mean it need to be episode 9. And why can’t Stannis save the day with the battle where Ygritte dies? We have to wait. Personally I hope the big battle will be around episode 6. that way the last 4 episodes can be about the trial of Tyrion. And the election. And it would be nice to break a certain patern, because else it will be episode 9: a big battle or somebody dies we love.

  179. Ser Tahu
    Posted July 7, 2013 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    kevin1989,
    Although I agree that Stannis’ storyline progressed much quicker than expected, Theon still hasn’t actually entered his ADwD stuff yet, only the flashbacks from ADwD. So really, Theon is exactly where he should be.

    As for the rest, my detailed predictions can be found over at:
    http://tahu909.livejournal.com/591.html
    I will probably be proved completely wrong when the show actually airs though :P.

  180. Astonished
    Posted July 7, 2013 at 11:25 pm | Permalink

    I’ve never been impressed by Neil Marshall and the episode he directed, Blackwater, in my opinion, is one of the worst episode of the entire run so far. Maybe the worst. So many failed scenes, dramatically speaking. If they hire him again, it’s for all the wrong reasons… again.

  181. DH87
    Posted July 7, 2013 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

    outdoorcats: Post-script – if we’re making director wishlists I’ll list Susanna White once again, based on her incredible work on Generation Kill and Bleak House (with Charles Dance!!)

    I second Ms. White, who also just finished directing the widely hailed Parade’s End (2012).

  182. TOM
    Posted July 8, 2013 at 12:45 am | Permalink

    Astonished,

    I’m surprised, care to elaborate?
    Not attacking, I’m genuinely curious as to why, when for most it was a season highlight, much better then “Where are my dragons!!!!”.

  183. Turncloak
    Posted July 8, 2013 at 1:06 am | Permalink

    TOM,

    He’s probably a troll. He says the episode was bad and does not give any reasons as to why. And if he’s not a troll, he’s in the small minority who share that opinion

  184. Chickenduck
    Posted July 8, 2013 at 5:27 am | Permalink

    Astonished might like the movie Cocktail though.

  185. House Clegane
    Posted July 8, 2013 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    Predictions:
    They will have the battle at the wall in multiple episodes at so show that i is actually a siege. Then episode 10 is the climax of the battle where stannis arrives. Episode 9 contains tyrions trial and wherever whores go.

  186. Astonished
    Posted July 8, 2013 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

    TOM,

    I actually wrote the reasons why a few times before on this website, since the original airing of that ep.

    As you suggested in your response, season 2 was inferior to season 1 and 3. So now, why was the climactic moment of season 2 one of the most poorly executed episodes of the entire run so far, to me?

    First you have to consider the fact that the episode, before it starts, before the opening credits, is preset to be the climactic episode. All the other episodes of the season lead to this. So it must deliver.

    Unfortunately, there was not that much tension to begin with–you weren’t really sure who was fighting who, why, and who to root for (at least in my view). Beyond that, Blackwater had a lot of meaningless fighting and big meaningless explosions. But mostly, it was everything else in between that failed. The dramatic climax was missing. It wanted to deliver. The writing was there. But the sets, moods, etc, were all wrong. Because of this, Tyrion’s speech was a wash. The hound’s desertion was barely visible. All those people that die, you don’t get a sense of it–you don’t get a sense of the loss of the ships. You barely realize they are about to lose the keep, and you care even less, because there’s nothing good about it to save even though it matters just as much if underdeveloped character Stannis gets it.

    I’m not saying it was necessarily because of the director. But I don’t think this director helped the episode at all with his unique set of ultra cheap horror director skills.

    By contrast, I am a huge fan of GoT and I think season 3 was excellent–the best so far.

  187. Lex
    Posted July 9, 2013 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    Astonished:
    Unfortunately, there was not that much tension to begin with–you weren’t really sure who was fighting who, why, and who to root for (at least in my view).

    LOL. Yeah, I think that was just you. It was all pretty clear.

    Astonished:
    Blackwater had a lot of meaningless fighting and big meaningless explosions. But mostly, it was everything else in between that failed. The dramatic climax was missing. It wanted to deliver. The writing was there. But the sets, moods, etc, were all wrong. Because of this, Tyrion’s speech was a wash. The hound’s desertion was barely visible. All those people that die, you don’t get a sense of it–you don’t get a sense of the loss of the ships. You barely realize they are about to lose the keep, and you care even less, because there’s nothing good about it to save even though it matters just as much if underdeveloped character Stannis gets it.

    Hmm… Disagree with everything you said here.

  188. Astonished
    Posted July 9, 2013 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    Lex: LOL. Yeah, I think that was just you. It was all pretty clear.

    Hmm… Disagree with everything you said here.

    Ah, ah, I stand corrected: There still is no chance for an interesting discussion with folks on WiC. Thank you for the reminder, I actually needed it.

  189. Joshua Taylor
    Posted July 9, 2013 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    Astonished,

    No worries. I’m sure you will be back under a different name.

  190. Lex
    Posted July 9, 2013 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    Astonished: Ah, ah, I stand corrected: There still is no chance for an interesting discussion with folks on WiC. Thank you for the reminder, I actually needed it.

    Sorry, but you said things like “everything was all wrong”, “there was no tension”, “the action was all pointless”, “the sets were all wrong”, “the climax was missing”… but those are all just strong sweeping statements, with no specifics. And pretty much opposite to what most people thought about the episode. I still disagree with it all, unless you can explain with more detail WHY you felt those things.

  191. Khal-A-Bunga
    Posted July 9, 2013 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

    Astonished,

    They could always use another member over at Westeros who uses a lot of words to say very little. I mean, what discussion were you hoping to have? You say a lot of things – “meaningless fighting and big meaningless explosions”, “Tyrion’s speech was a wash” – but you don’t quantify anything. So what is there to discuss? Now maybe if you explained why you felt the fighting and explosions were meaningless, or how Tyrion’s speech was “a wash” (I mean, seriously?), then there’d be the beginning of a conversation.

    As it is, you’re just fishing for a response, it seems. Now…

    http://24.media.tumblr.com/d40a93c1ec76f9bc14c0c7ef6341da69/tumblr_mghby1XZ9D1ry10fwo1_500.gif

  192. Astonished
    Posted July 9, 2013 at 10:52 pm | Permalink

    Khal-A-Bunga:
    Astonished,

    They could always use another member over at Westeros who uses a lot of words to say very little. I mean, what discussion were you hoping to have? You say a lot of things – “meaningless fighting and big meaningless explosions”, “Tyrion’s speech was a wash” – but you don’t quantify anything. So what is there to discuss? Now maybe if you explained why you felt the fighting and explosions were meaningless, or how Tyrion’s speech was “a wash” (I mean, seriously?), then there’d be the beginning of a conversation.

    As it is, you’re just fishing for a response, it seems. Now…

    http://24.media.tumblr.com/d40a93c1ec76f9bc14c0c7ef6341da69/tumblr_mghby1XZ9D1ry10fwo1_500.gif

    Actually, I was trying to start a conversation. Yes I have a strong negative opinion about Neil Marshall as a director and as the directory of Blackwater. This post is about Neil Marshall rumored to direct next season, so I don’t think my comments are trolling even at a remote level. I did my best to describe my opinion as a comment without going too far into tangents. I firmly believe that a viewing of these scenes critically speaks for itself. But overall, I am very sad about these responses. They are not at all what I intended. I would have been happier to be ignored.

  193. voiceareason
    Posted July 10, 2013 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    So, anyone notice this yet?
    Spoilers, probably:
    http://variety.com/2013/tv/news/neil-marshall-to-helm-another-episode-nine-for-fourth-season-of-game-of-thrones-1200560481/

    We now have conflicting reports, but this one is more believable

  1. [...] Winter Is Coming, warns for us to not get ahead of ourselves. They claim to have conflicting information from [...]

  2. [...] is now confirming Empire Magazine’s initial report of Neil Marshall returning to Game of Thrones. Only they reveal that he will be directing episode [...]

  3. [...] da revista Empire, o episódio de Marshall será o último da temporada, mas uma fonte do site Winter is Coming diz que a notícia não está completamente certa. Será? O parágrafo abaixo contém spoilers [...]

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