Looking Forward Season 4, Part 2: Stannis
By Oz of Thrones on in Editorial, Speculation.

Stannis

Oz of Thrones:  Greetings to my fellow WiC readers!  Slow news week?  Exhausted from too much trial or royal baby coverage?  Hungry for some Thrones leakage and getting no satisfaction?  I can’t offer what I don’t possess, so how about some Unsullied Sunday Brunch?  A man is back for our continuing series of Looking Forward Season 4 as we pass the time until March of 2014.

For this installment, we will take a look at Mr. Personality himself and Westeros’ favorite life-of-the-party, Stannis Baratheon.  As a show-viewer only, I will admit that I have no clue where the Dragonstone resident’s story line is headed.  But for the sake of conversation and killing time, I will take a stab at the stag!  So, pour yourself a cup of something and stay a while.  Heckle us if you must, o’ great Sullied book readers.  But be kind, and remember that we ultimately know nothing.

As an Unsullied, I will admit that Stannis is neither my least favorite nor my most favorite character in the show.  He is just Stannis: arguably the rightful heir to the Iron Throne and the proverbial fly in the Lannister ointment.  He is as friendly and warm as our most recent former United States VP (this is not an invitation to start a political discussion), and is as funny and witty as our present United States VP (this is not an invitation to start a political discussion).  Even before we met him onscreen, we were given hints to the “Stannis likability factor” in a naked, shaving conversation between Loras and Renly in S1:

In regards to the possibility of Renly being King:

Renly: “I’m fourth in line.”

Loras: “Joffrey is a monster.  Tommen is 8.”

Renly: “Stannis?”

Loras: “Stannis has the personality of a lobster.”

Now, I haven’t spent an obscene amount of time getting to know lobsters, but as most show viewers likely guessed, it was not a compliment.  We got to meet the man himself in Season 2 and realize in Episode 201 that this no-nonsense King means business as he gives specific instructions to Matthos Seaworth in the draft of a letter that was sent out to all of the corners of Westeros (one of my favorite Stannis scenes).  He was confident, hard-headed, and stern, and gave us one of the more memorable quotes from S2, “Joffrey, Renly, Robb Stark.  They’re all thieves.  They will bend the knee or I’ll destroy them.”  And because this hard man’s claim to the throne, he gave us the epic Battle at Blackwater.

However, in Season 3 we seemingly find a different man.  Stannis appears somewhat broken at first, having recently suffered the defeat at Blackwater Bay.  The Red Woman leaves him without disclosing her destination and he has Davos put in the dungeons.  But as the season progresses, we see a slightly different side of the hard man as he comes into his first on-screen contact with his wife and daughter.  He has an important conversation with Davos at the Dragonstone Inn.  And he meets Gendry who carries the his same blood.  But where will Season 4 take the mannis?  The truth is that I have no clue.  So, let’s delve into the dialogue, shall we?

The Red Woman: We know that Stannis is all in with the Red Woman now, as can be referenced with his first scene in Season 3 where Davos is thrown into the Dragonstone Inn when he threatens her.  Then, Melisandre abruptly leaves Stannis saying that his fires burn low.  This could be mistaken as a need for Stannis to seek out some Westerosi dysfunction meds (can you envision Melisandre and Stannis sitting in separate bathtubs overlooking the view from Dragonstone?  Even better, Stannis ends the commercial by saying “When my fire burns low, I use Cialis”).  But more than likely, it was a reference to his depression and mental state more than it is a problem with ED.  She does leave him with this:

Melisandre: “You will sit on the iron throne.  But first there must be sacrifices.  The Lord of Light demands it.”

As a viewer, I am done second guessing the power of the Lord of Light (see Beric Dondarrion, Thoros of Myr, being brought back from the dead six times, etc.).  Knowing what we know now, is there any doubt that Stannis will one day sit atop the iron throne?  Of course there is doubt!  Take your Unsullied logic and throw it out the window!  Why am I even writing this shit??

Sorry…. I digress.

At this point, Stannis is apparently lonely and filled with guilt without his Red companion and seeks refuge from his wife and daughter.  His visit with Selyse solidifies his self doubt.

Selyse: “You musn’t despair.  Your claim is true.  You will be victorious.”

Stannis: “I believed that once.”

Then we are introduced to jar babies.  Let’s move on.

Stannis then goes to see Shireen where we learn how much she loves her father, I mean….. Davos Seaworth.  Hearing how much your own daughter admires another man could not have helped the mental anguish of Stannis.  Maybe this encounter is what helps lead Stannis to freeing Davos from the Inn?  A question for the philosophers I guess.

The Davos Conversation:  Either way, Stannis visits the Onion Knight as he is attempting to learn to read (maybe I will write Davos another letter next Season and he can actually enjoy it).

Again, we see a side of Stannis which shows a caring for the feelings of others as he offers condolences to Davos for the loss of his son.  The conversation turns to Gendry and his sacrifice to which Davos disagrees. Seemingly, we see the value that Stannis holds for Davos as he is garnering his opinion which later only leads to a leeching of Robert’s bastard and proving the power of the blood (for now anyway).  It continued with this epic dialogue between the two:

Stannis: “The darkness will devour them all she says, the night that never ends.  Unless I triumph.  I never asked for this, no more than I asked to be King.  We do not choose our destiny.  We must do our duty, no?  Great or small we must do our duty.“

Stannis continues, ”I saw a vision in the flames. A great battle in the snow.  I saw it.  And you saw whatever she gave birth too.  I never believed, but when you see the truth, when it’s right there in front of you, as real as these iron bars, how can you deny her God is real?”

Based on this conversation, not only do we see Stannis showing some remorse, but we also see his confidence rising again now that the Red Woman has returned.  The man has a conscience.  But like many men, Stannis doesn’t like to show it.  At the same time, duty must be carried out.  He wants Davos with him for this journey, but also wants him to understand the importance the Red Woman plays in his quest.

Enough mindless mindreading….. let’s look at the literals.

A Battle in the Snow:  Against whom? And where?  And with what army?  If the vision in the flame is correct, we could have an epic battle scene coming.  But “in the snow”?  Does this mean winter is coming very fast, or does this mean that Stannis will be traveling north soon?  Only time will tell.  And don’t answer, pleeeease.

Leech Logic:  Melisandre states that the leeches are a demonstration to show the power of the King’s blood to Davos.  We have discussed the leeches at length before, but we still don’t know the significance.

If you subscribe to chronological orders, then the named usurpers for each leech went like this:

  1. Robb Stark
  2. Balon Greyjoy
  3. Joffrey Baratheon

Robb Stark was first and now he is dead, although we don’t have proof that the leech had anything to do with this.  Melisandre doesn’t take credit, but mentions her faith which ultimately tells us nothing.

The only way we will presumably know if there is significance in the order is if Balon Greyjoy dies and beats Joffrey to his death.  Or maybe they don’t die…. maybe they just get a rash or something.

Nevertheless, in the season finale, we see Davos and Gendry bonding in the dungeon as they discuss their common trait of hailing from Flea Bottom.    After Stannis decides that Gendry must die because a great gift requires a great sacrifice, Davos checks Gendry out of the Dragonstone Inn and sends him back to King’s Landing.

And here is where, just maybe, we can get a glimpse of where all of this is going.  As Stannis sentences Davos to die, he hands him a letter about the dangers that lie north of the Wall.  Melisandre burns the letters and sees something in the flames that makes her state that the war of five kings means nothing and that the true war lies to the north.  As Stannis gets ready to carry out the sentence on Davos, Melisandre stops him and says that Davos will play a part in the war to come.  Thus, the Red Woman saves his life.

So, having said all of this, what exactly are we looking forward to?  Other than the book readers, who the hell knows?  But here is an Unsullied guess…. after this letter is read and burned, Stannis begins rebuilding his army and  concentrating his efforts on the White Walkers.  The battle in the snow indeed happens in the North, and given that the realm has given very little support to the Night’s Watch, Stannis is somehow able to join his forces with the Crows.  Given the current disarray of the Night’s Watch and the coming attack of the Wildlings and the White Walkers, they could certainly use the help.

Possible?  Yes.  Unlikely?  Yes.  But what do you expect from an uneducated couch potato?  Give a man a break, damn ya!  (I like when Stannis says, “damn ya!”).

Overall Thoughts:  Admittedly, I have never been much of a Stannis supporter.  Having rewatched Season 3 and subjecting myself to doing a novice analysis of his scenes this past season, the guy is growing on me.  It could be because we got a little more insight into who the man is; but it could also be because of the what happened to the Starks and wanting someone to exact revenge on the Lannister plots and schemes.

What do you think?  Are you a fannis of the Stannis?  Have you always been a Stannis supporter?  Have you always thought he was a jackass?  Hit me up in the comments.  What else do you have to do?  And if you don’t want to discuss Stannis, just enlighten us with what you might be doing on this fine Sunday (or whenever you may be digesting this fine masterpiece).

Thanks for checking out my endless quest in the speculation of what is to come while abstaining from the written verse.  Your patience with the Unsullied is greatly appreciated.  And remember, NO SPOILERS in the comments!! 

Until next time good people, I sincerely hope there is peace in your realm.  –Oz

“Unbowed.  Unbent.  Unsullied.”

Looking Forward Season 4, Part 1: Lysafinger


160 Comments

  1. Zag
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    Hodor

  2. Mister Stark
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    Those are all good questions Oz. Keep up the good work! Love your recaps! Stay strong and resist the temptation.

  3. Jack
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    Stannis is certainly more attractive as a claimant to the throne after the Red Wedding…
    As a book reader, like most, my attention was drawn to Stannis and his entourage after the deaths of Robb and Catelyn, and the capture of their bannermen; Stannis seems like the way the reader can get vengeance for their favourite characters.

  4. Grijnwaald
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    Stannis the Mannis has never been my favourite of the characters, I’ve always found him to be boring, rude and good at making bad decisions (burning the old Gods, imprisoning Davos, agreeing to sacrifice Gendry) however…………now that this war in the snow buisness has cropped up and that Captain Beard Davos is still with us, I feel hopeful for him, and so I’ll be egging him on next season for sure.

    Once again, A pleasure to read Oz.

  5. Doloures Edd
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    As a book reader I LOVE these posts. I find it interesting to get in the head of the Unsullied. Keep up the good work Oz!

  6. kevin
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    Stannis

  7. mariamb
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    Another insightful post, Oz. Well-done.

    It takes time to appreciate Stannis – both in the book and on the show. I am interested in seeing how his story progresses. Will he be a game-changer?

    That’s a gorgeous photo of Stephen Dillane at the top of this post. I loved his sexy Thomas Jefferson and I adore him as Stannis.

  8. BrianAu
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    It is fascinating and revealing that the moral compass right now of Game of Thrones resides in one Davos, the smuggler, and aka the Onion Knight. I cannot state enough how impressed I have been with the acting for Davos and Stannis. Both have been simply outstanding and made me care so much more for both characters than I ever did reading the books. Melisandre character has always been fascinating to me and the acting here has been exceptional too. I also like how the show has demonstrated the power of the Red Woman but also that it is limited. I am thinking of the great scenes were she realizes that Thoros has risen the dead on multiple occasions something she could not even conceive of being possible before and which appears at this juncture she is unable to do. I will not say more to asses the correctness of your assertions, Oz :-)

  9. Traveling Targaryen
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    Stannis Is cool and all, but my heart still lies with Daenerys Stormborn, of House Targaryen! Mother of Dragons and Breaker of Chains! The titles go on and on…

  10. Traveling Targaryen
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    In all seriousness, interesting predictions. As someone mentioned, I love reading these posts as a Sullied. Interesting to see what goes on in your mind, if that makes sense.

  11. arden
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Stannis

  12. Oz of Thrones
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    Traveling Targaryen,

    It makes perfect sense, and I appreciate all of the feedback. There is a certain gratification I get when the Sullied enjoy the postings. Just remember, I am sure there are wiser Unsullied than myself and my thoughts don’t necessarily reflect those of the army. Regardless, many thanks good Sullied friends.

  13. outdoorcats
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    The ‘Dragonstone Inn’ – haha. Do you think Stannis could build up some income renting out his dungeons as an inn part time? That would help raise an army for sure. Unfortunately now I guess I’ve spoiled for you the sitcom spinoff where Davos and Melisandre are forced to manage the inn jointly and endure all sorts of wacky shenanigans together (think Fawlty Towers meets Game of Thrones meets Two and a Half Men) – damn my lack of caution!

    Why do I like Stannis? Even though it’s obviously never specifically stated as such in books or series (they don’t have an autism spectrum in Westeros) I’ve always interpreted Stannis as a bit Asperger’s-y – in some ways, not others, but enough for me to feel for him. He’s a complete social misfit in Westeros (where non-literal communication and doublespeak are just good court manners ;) ), the ultimate underdog. And yes, I root for him.

    I think he’s far more compassionate and kind then he would appear on the surface, and we saw glimpses of that this season, in particular the scenes you analyzed with Shireen, and Davos at the soon-to-be Dragonstone Inn. The Shireen scene in particular, what I got from that and the way Cogman wrote it/Dillane acted it is that Stannis really loves his daughter (otherwise why even visit her?), but he’s somewhat clueless how to be a good father. His thing is complete honestly/bluntless 100% of the time with no varnish, but when he sees how upset his daughter is when he tells her that Uncle Renly was a traitor and so is Ser Davos, he’s at a loss, doubting himself for the first time on screen.

    Regarding his conversation with Davos, I think it gives insight into the fact that Stannis doesn’t necessarily have any personal *desire* to be on the Iron Throne. He feels has *has* to sit on the Iron Throne, because he is the rightful heir, because it’s his duty, and personal feelings don’t come into it. Something which sets him apart from the Littlefingers, the Joffreys, etc.

    I feel for Stannis and the particular way he’s divided things into black&white as a coping mechanism…but if he wants to succeed, he’s going to have to keep evolving and start seeing those shades of grey.

    What am I doing this Sunday? After I finish my pancake brunch I will be off to see a matinee screening of Pacific Rim. Looks cool. Also, I will watch anything with Stringer Bell.

  14. Ade Grant
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    Loving these, keep ‘em coming!

  15. Arkash
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    Oh I love reading those, thank you Oz ! =D

    And it indeed takes some time to appreciate Stannis, but it is definitly worth the patience !

  16. outdoorcats
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    vlad,

    Look, I know you want to share all the inside information, but the rules regarding these posts are clear: absolutely NO information from the books, not even veiled hints, etc. It doesn’t matter at what point in the timeline it happened, it doesn’t necessarily have to be something that hasn’t happened yet in the series to be a spoiler. For all you know, we will get to hear that story next year.

    Also, D&D never said they hated Stannis, and they clearly don’t.

  17. winwolf
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    Jack,

    i agree that D&D doesnt have a clue how to portray stannis, they are doing a very bad job.

  18. outdoorcats
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    winwolf,

    And this discussion has no place here; it belongs on the ‘sullied’ threads.

  19. voiceareason
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    vlad,

    They have never said they hated Stannis. They just said that he would be an awful king (and I concur).

  20. KG
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    As someone who could include “Fair’s fair” on her List of Rules to Live By, I can’t help but admire Stannis – the patron saint of Lawful Neutral.

    Which, of course, means he’s GOT to be doomed. I just know it :/ We shall see, though!

  21. desire
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Stannis is my favourite character!!

  22. Davy
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    Oz I think you have unleashed the Stannists unto this post now ^^. On many other forums they have replaced characters their fans with “stans” already because every single thread derails into a “why stannis is the best character of asoiaf/got” discussion at some point. I think D&D once said it well “Around Stannis is some super natural feeling almost godlike that was never in the books nor can ever be told in the show. But will always be an argument”

    Besides that I am a huge Stannist aswell and as a sullied I like reading the predictions. :-)

  23. EverydayImHodoring
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    I recently purchased Stannis’ shirt (stag head, crown & flaming heart) from the HBO shop after wearing the distressed Stark wolf shirt for the last 2 years. Time to switch teams… although I dislike Melisandre, I do like Stannis and I LOVE Davos.

  24. Jeff O'Connor
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    As a reader, I must be perpetually brief in these sections. That said, I only recently became a reader, and a small part of me will miss checking out how much our predictions sync. :P

    These are always fun though. Stannis definitely grew on me in Season 3 (and around this point in the books several months ago) after leaving me a bit cold beforehand. I think Dillane really kicked ass in the role this year and I also believe (and this is based only on what you’ve seen so far, I promise) Stannis is intentionally portrayed as an even greyer man in Season 2 so that we can maybe pull some slightly surprising threads of heroism from his tale in Season 3.

    This kind of uncanny development is one of my favorite things about the show.

    A friend of mine who is quite Unsullied barely felt reason to care what happened to Stannis “so long as he left Tyrion, Bronn, Sansa and Shae alone” during the Battle at Blackwater last year, but he really enjoyed him during the episode in which we are introduced to Selyse and Shireen. We agreed that it was Dillane’s mannerisms that really drove Stannis home for him in that episode. There’s a peculiar “uncomfortable sneering” in Dillane’s approach that is both classic and meme-worthy.

  25. Jinete
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    What makes Stannis so compelling is that he remains focused on the objective. Stannis is very direct and those individuals are not well liked. On the other hand direct personalties also tend to gather respect and support. I like Stannis and Davos. They engage in the world of realpolitik but alas he is a Baratheon which means he is anti-Targ and must face elimination when he and Dany meet. But regardless a compelling character, not very well loved but commands respect and fear.

  26. Davy
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    To add something to my post earlier. I think Stannis has been excellent since season 2. I think Stannis was one of the main reasons for me to even start reading the books and I don’t agree with all those “naysayers” that he has been portrayed poorly in the show. Ok I would have done some things different myself aswell, but the Stannis in the show is the Stannis I liked and he has some brilliant things in the books that aren’t in the show. But I think that some of the added scenes (with shireen <3) are so good and stannislike especially with how he should respond to his daughter. That those missed scenes won't be missed.

  27. shyone274
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    Always love reading these Oz of Thrones!

    Stannis is such a polarizing character. I think you’ve really caught his sense of duty and justice as opposed to personal desire. Well done.

  28. Crow
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 12:53 pm | Permalink
  29. Clara
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    When I saw season 2 I hated Stannis and groaned every time it was one of his scenes. But season 3 really made me like him more, I think it may because he’s been rounded out a bit.
    I think you go on a similar journey in book 2 and 3 in that as you understand Stannis a bit more, he’s harder to hate. In that aspect the show has done really well.
    I think this season we maybe get to understand more of why Davos “the nicest guy ever” Seaworth loves Stannis so much, lobster-like or not!

  30. Friend Of fire
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Love your posts Oz as a book reader they are extremely interesting and the humor is awesome

  31. Tír Airgid
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    Ade Grant:
    Loving these, keep ‘em coming!

    This. Very much. Thanks, Oz!

  32. Davy
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    Clara:
    When I saw season 2 I hated Stannis and groaned every time it was one of his scenes. But season 3 really made me like him more, I think it may because he’s been rounded out a bit.
    I think you go on a similar journey in book 2 and 3 in that as you understand Stannis a bit more, he’s harder to hate. In that aspect the show has done really well.
    I think this season we maybe get to understand more of why Davos “the nicest guy ever” Seaworth loves Stannis so much, lobster-like or not!

    I think you must have missed a memo then as that moment has been in the show already. :) I think Davos explained that to Gendry in his cell. Why he was still supporting Stannis.

  33. Macha
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Stannis. Stannis. Stannis.
    Because once is not enough. :)

  34. Starfish
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    I personally can’t stand Stannis, so his character development means little to me. Melisandre is the only thing keeping me interested in his plot line.

  35. iam76
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    Stannis supporter since day 1

  36. jon Sneuh
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

    Stannis kills Bran and Hodor in book 5.

  37. Traveling Targaryen
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    You’re welcome, and of course! I realize not all of the Unsullied army would agree with your statements, but they are interesting and fun nonetheless! Although I have to REALLY guard myself. I saw one of your predictions pre-season 3 that would come true (and already has) and was squirming in my seat!

    Unsullied, beware! For the comment section is dark and full of spoilers!

  38. Dogmayor
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    STANNIS!

  39. pntrlqst
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    “This happened, this happened, and this happened. What’ll happen next season? Who the hell knows? I don’t. But I’m curious. Intrigued. WHO KNOWS? Not me.”

    x100

  40. Clara
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    Davy,

    Yeah sorry that was badly phrased!

    I meant that in season 3 it became clear. in the scene with gendry and just seeing a slightly more sympathetic stannis in general.

  41. Alex Dubrovsky
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    My preferred outcome of the series is Stannis on the Iron Throne, with Ironborn as his chief allies. Screw everyone else.

  42. ShadowStalker
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    I love reading your posts. Being Sullied I know what happens… however I like reading your posts as it gives us book readers the chance to see if the show is actually working. Doing its job translating the source material.

    Keep it coming.

  43. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    Sadly the simple minds of Westeros don’t appreciate the dry humor of the King in the Narrow Sea. Go Stannis!

  44. Turncloak
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    Stannis!!! Dillane is one of the best actors on the show. “Make it Jaime Lannister the kingslayer, let them know what he is… “Make it Ser Jaime Lannister the Kingslayer, whatever the man is he’s still a knight”

  45. Tenesmus
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    Stannis is simply snort-worthy. Every scene I read of his in the books makes me snort out loud. He never tries to be humorous, but his dialogue is written as to be hysterical. This was shown in the TV Stannis in the second season when he was arguing about striking the word “love” from the proclamation he was having sent out about Joffrey and Robert. There needs to be more TV dialogue like that so the Unsullied can truly appreciate Stannis.

  46. spacechampion
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    I am a fan of Stannis, but not for his own sake (initially). More because he’s an interesting way to bring out certain themes in the story. Without spoilers, one theme I think his storyline exists for is to illuminate that when dealing with prophesy, sorting out what is cause and what is effect can be rather difficult, and probably unanswerable. Is he the Prince that Was Promised, destined to defeat the White Walkers and save the world from endless Night? Or is that Dany? Or is that someone else? Honestly, I don’t think we’ll get a definitive answer. It’ll probably remain ambiguous, and at the end of it all we’ll still not know if prophesy held true or not.

    I’m a bit confused though why Oz is uncertain what Stannis’s response to the letter will be? The letter asked for help, that all the lords of Westeros send men to fight the White Walkers. Mel, Davos and Stannis seemed in agreement they must answer the call, as that is where the true fight is.

  47. PhoenixDark
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    Given how horrible Stannis has been written on the show, I can’t see why anyone would anticipate more. He’s one of my favorite characters in the novels, and while I understand why some changes were made, I’ve yet to meet a non-book reader who likes him on the show.

  48. arden
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    PhoenixDark:
    Given how horrible Stannis has been written on the show, I can’t see why anyone would anticipate more. He’s one of my favorite characters in the novels, and while I understand why some changes were made, I’ve yet to meet a non-book reader who likes him on the show.

    Truth

  49. Maginor
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    Shireen for the Iron Throne, I say!

  50. Veltigar
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    Stannis is in my top 3 of favorite characters of this series (alongside Jon Snow and Victarion Greyjoy ), but I have to say that I didn’t really care for him during ACOK and the first part of ASOS (which roughly corresponds with season 2 and 3).
    When he’s first introduced you look at him through the lens of the likes of Renly, who consider Stannis a humorless bore (in retrospect very untrue) and on top of that Stannis himself is to self-righteous.
    In the next installment(s) of this series that changes, you see him more as a human and you start to appreciate him more as a realistic, dutiful character. IMO he also seems more adaptable and versatile, more inclined to listen to other opinions without losing his strong drive and determination.

    Personally, I don’t think that D&D misinterpret the character. Yes, something’s (like his final scene this season) were underwhelming but that had more to do with the fact that they only have so much time (and because some things don’t translate well from paper to screen), but they actually started earlier with fleshing Stannis out thanks to that excellent scene with Shireen and Selyse.
    And about them saying that (season 2) Stannis wouldn’t be a good King. I 100% agree. He was a bit of a tosser back then. It was only after the catastrophe at the Blackwater and the near sacrifice of his nephew that he became Kingly material IMO

  51. peter sweeney
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    Go North, Stannis Baratheon

  52. Claire Johnson
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    Stannis is like a grumpy dad. You can count on him, he gets things done or at least he tries his hardest.
    I feel safe with him in charge, I know order will be kept. I know what to expect. And just like the grumpy dad’s cold exterior I know he has emotions and cares, it’s just hard to see sometimes. I like Stannis more and more. Nice article, thanks!

  53. Udi
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    If Stannis is boring he should have less scenes…
    FEWER! FEWER SCENES!

  54. Arthur
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    kevin,

    Stannis

  55. Swords
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    Udi,

    Stannis is boring, i hope he doesn’t have many scenes in season 4. sorry but that’s my opinion.

  56. A wildling bastard
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    Stannis the true King of Westeros. One of my favourite characters .. har!

  57. Udi
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    Swords,

    I (capital “i”) and Sorry with a capital “s”!!!
    Stannis the grammar Nazi

  58. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Stannis! Stannis! STANNIS!

  59. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    The showrunners are treading a fine line with Stannis with regards to his characterisation, so it’s possible he could veer off course in Season 4. I hope not as Stannis really is the mannis.

  60. Mr. Masamune
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    I’ve been worried that Stannis’ behavior in Season 3 would completely alienate the Unsullied and make it difficult for them to understand why the man has such a die-hard cult following amongst a lot of us book-reading fans. There are a good many of us who actually think he would make a much better king than Dany would a queen, but the show hasn’t done the best job of showing why. Quite the contrary, the Iron Stannis of the book, the man who will break before he bends and will fight to the end even if he’s outnumbered 100 to 1 just so long as he believes himself in the right, has had way too many scenes showing him as weak and desperate or even unambiguously evil.

    Stannis is merciless and cold, relentless and lacking in any social skills, he’s in league with a woman who burns people alive for not believing in her god, but there is very much a reason why Davos Seaworth (probably the most unambiguously good character post-Ned Stark) still follows him and believes in him. By contrast, I’m not sure why the Davos Seaworth of the show still wants anything to do with this guy who only spared him because the psycho religious fanatic told him to and who seems completely and utterly bent to her will.

    I get the sense that D&D just don’t like the guy very much, and as a consequence I suspect there will never be quite the same Stannis-love amongst the Unsullied. A pity, really.

  61. Pepi
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    PhoenixDark,

    Hi! I hope this counts. :D

  62. kingthlayer
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    “When my fire burns low, I use Cialis.”

    Hah! Nice one! :)

  63. matt v.
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    im an unsullied. i really like stannis since blackwater… i just thought WOW… if not hodor, than stannis has to be on the iron throne… i love how crazy dangerous the red woman is… Davos is the new Ned Stark :) i just hope he’ll live to the end of the show… and i agree, stannis is definitely going on the wall… i really dont know what will happen with him and the White Walkers… it’ll be interesting :)

  64. Greg
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    I love Stannis! Not necessarily who I want to see on the throne, but still an awesome character. I love all of Team Dragonstone, even Melly.

  65. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    I think we’re all missing the big picture here. Stannis must be crowned and have no sons, so that Shireen can be queen. Everyone would be too busy dying from the cute to fight any wars or rebellions.

  66. Selmy
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    Swords,

    Firstly – You, Ser, are very very wrong indeed. I predict that scenes involving Stannis will be among your favorite of season 4.

    Oz of Thrones,

    Secondly – Yayyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!! Stannis! I’m glad you took note of the commenters requests that you did Stannis next on your previous entry. (I was one of them.) I was wondering how easy it would be for an Unsullied to work out where Stannis is heading from the last episode of season 3. Some book readers felt that they gave it away too easily. I obviously will not confirm or deny if your predictions are correct but suffice to say I certainly found them interesting!

    I hope that next season Unsullied will start to see why Stannis is such a book-reader favorite.

    Oh yeah – fun tid-bit. Loras’ line in season 1 about Stannis having the personality of a lobster is a reference to the fact that the only song that has been sung of Stannis is one which compares him to a grumpy lobster. Tywin gets the Rains of Castamere and Stannis gets the Ballad of the Grumpy Lobster!

    The one true King of Westeros.

  67. Oz of Thrones
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    Selmy,

    The Ballad of the Grumpy Lobster would be added to my playlist immediately if it were already recorded. Laughing pretty hard right now…. Thank you for the tidbit. Hilarious.

  68. Hounded
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

    outdoorcats,

    Interesting points about Stannis’ personality and perhaps having aspergers by today’s standards.

    Ahhh Stringer Bell. I’ve just started watching Luther. Really liking it but he’ll forever be String.

  69. Dark Star
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    What the hell with all the spoilers? What exactly about NO SPOILERS do you asshats not understand?

    CLEANUP ON AISLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Oz, I love to read your pieces, but I am Sullied, so I will comment no further. Other than to say I appreciate all facets of Stannis. I recently watched John Adams with the lovely Stephen Dillane as Thomas Jefferson, and I was quite captivated by him. Sigh……….

  70. Selmy
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    Haha no worries. One of my favorite bits of Stannis back-story is the occasion when he and Robert first visited King’s Landing. Stannis was only 4 and held Robert’s hand because he was nervous. They met the King and both left with a certainty that he was the most impressive man they’d ever met. They were only later told that King Aerys was ill that day and it was in fact his Hand, Tywin Lannister that had impressed them so.

  71. arden
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    Michael274,

    Truth is that I haven’t met anyone who hasn’t read books that likes Stannis.

    Dumbass..? Whats wrong with you??? You are really insulting someone over the internet… lol

    Michael274:
    Swords,

    Are you the same guy writing under different names ? If that is so then you need to get a life .

    Practice what you preach.

  72. Easteros bunny
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    Anyone else have trouble reading this article, so much going on in the intro!

  73. Mike
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    vlad,

    The non-book readers don’t care about how you feel the show is portraying Stannis when compared to the source material, so please, take it to another forum, dude.

  74. Oz of Thrones
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    Easteros bunny,

    I am. And hell, I wrote it.

    If you are looking for complicated verbal prose and dynamic structure, I ain’t it. My style is my style, and I enjoy doing it. My apologies if it sometimes does not meet or exceed expectations.

    However, thank you for checking it out! Other than the intro, I hope you enjoyed.

  75. Mike
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    arden,

    You clearly haven’t met my friends who are Unsullied who really enjoy Stannis.

  76. The Dragon Demands
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

    To keep this Unsullied-friendly….

    I think this is safe to say: you have to remember that book 3 was so long that it got split in half between seasons 3 and 4. One of the reasons the Red Wedding was so shocking in the books is because it happened in the *middle* of the third book, not near the climax.

    As a result….Tyrion, Cersei, and Stannis just don’t have much to do in the first half or so of book 3, but after Robb Stark’s storyline ends at the Red Wedding, this leaves more room for interesting things to happen to Tyrion, Cersei, and Stannis.

    Some Unsullied viewers may have even complained that Tyrion, Cersei, Stannis (and others) just haven’t done much yet. Well, it’s how the book was paced, and the split between two seasons spread all of this out too thinly.

    I assure you Stannis has major plotlines coming up but…think of it like Jaime in Season 2. Jaime in book 2 just didn’t have a lot to do. So the TV show for both Jaime in season 2 and Stannis in season 3 did an admirable job of spacing out or expanding upon what few scenes they had in those sections of the story just so the audience wouldn’t forget about them, but they were “backburnered”….which is only logical given how the story progressed. But it comes in turns for every character, we’ll see them all doing more later.

  77. arden
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    Mike,

    Why are people taking this so seriously? Lol

    but glad there are a few out there

  78. MVD
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    OZ and Unsullied,
    Thank you. Was having a boring Sunday ’til I got to this post. A pleasure!

  79. Dave
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    Stannis

  80. outdoorcats
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

    Hounded,

    I watched the first couple of episodes of Luther a while back. I liked it but got sidetracked. The writing was a bit silly but Elba was AMAZING. As was his costar Ruth Wilson, though like Elba and Stringer Bell she will always be the definitive Jane Eyre in my eyes.

    If you want to watch another slightly-unhinged-detective-versus-a-psychopath show, you might want to check out Hannibal. In all seriousness, it’s amazing, the best show on television right now, even better than Mad Men or Game of Thrones. Yes, I said it, the greatest show on television at the moment is on NBC. If you watch the pilot (honestly one of the best pilot episodes I’ve ever seen) you might see what I’m talking about!

    oh, and Pacific Rim was OK. Eye-popping (in glorious 2D!), but emotionally very lightweight. An aesthetically gorgeous B-movie blockbuster with low aspirations – it’s geared toward a much younger audience than some of the promo/trailers might have you believe.

  81. outdoorcats
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

    Ruth Wilson has to be cast in this show somewhere, doesn’t she? I’m not sure where, but surely D&D can just invent a role for her. Perhaps a new whore in Littlefinger’s brothel? But you know, with important lines and scenes and stuff. Or maybe her character from Luther can somehow end up in Westeros thanks to a tear in the space-time continuum. She would give Cersei a run for her money.

  82. Joshua Taylor
    Posted July 14, 2013 at 11:33 pm | Permalink

    outdoorcats,

    Hannibal is incredible. Writing, acting, music, sound and cinematography. It replaces SOTL and Manhunter in the faithful Thomas Harris adaptation category and delivers a mesmerizing experience.

    Oh my mind was blown when I watched King Arthur the other day and remembered that Will Graham (Hugh Dancy) and Hannibal (Mads Mikkelsen) are knights of the round table! And Stannis = Merlin!

  83. Arthur
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 12:56 am | Permalink

    Nezzer,

    When I ask my non-book reader work friends about Jaime, they went from hating him in season one and two, to saying “he’s learning” after season 3.

  84. Oberyn
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 1:27 am | Permalink

    Fell in love with Stannis in the PROLOGUE of the second book (A Clash of Kings) and there was no way back from there.

    If you read the books, you might love him too.

  85. Grijnwaald
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 2:07 am | Permalink

    I reckon anyone who maliciously spoils the plot in the comment section should get an imediate IP ban from the site, If that sort of thing can be dished out.

  86. Pepi
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 3:20 am | Permalink

    Pepi:
    PhoenixDark,

    Hi! I hope this counts. :D

    Sry, I missread the initial post. I thought it was about book readers (who can be pretty loud at times) not liking show Stannis.

    Metrael:
    Ruining a character because you don’t like him is a total lack of profissionalism.

    It’s also not the case. Where are you people getting this from? Also, the 3 points you’ve mentioned are only partially true. It’s like bad journalism. You’ve twisted the ideas to make them sound more provocative.

    1. Stannis is grasping for straws at this point. He’s asking Mel for another shadow baby which has proven to be effective in the past. He’s pretty much at his low point. And the book Stannis would never go there point is pretty irrelevant here, due to the fact, that in the books we do not really see his 1 on 1 interractions with Mel. We only (80%) see him when he’s with Davos (through Davos’ eyes, no less) and Davos is rather biased in this regard. One might say show Stannis is closer to book Stannis than Davos POV Stannis ever was. Or more objective at least.
    2. There’s one important difference between show and book Stannis that often gets overlooked. Stannis is more aware of Mel’s powers in the show. He knows Renly died via Mel’s magicks (and he saw the vision in the flames). Not believing in R’hllor at this point would be like not believing in air (he notes this in ep8, iirc). And yet he’s still ready to humor Davos (who also knows, mind it) with the leechings. But after Robb’s death he’s like “we can all see where this is going, let’s get things over with.” He can’t just sit on Dragonstone, his time is limited. He’s a rebel who challanged the throne, and the Lannisters (+ Tyrells) haven’t forgotten this. Admittedly, this is a bit different in the books, but that doesn’t make this adaptation wrong.
    3. Rewatch the scene. Initially Mel doesn’t event want Stannis to read Davos’ letter. But he does anyway. Melisandre doesn’t “tell him to go to the Wall.” She just confirms the threat the letter describes (and that he’ll need Davos). As a matter of fact, Mel doesn’t “tell” Stannis anything in this scene. She’s basically just confirming the dead man’s claims.

    Sry for hijacking the post championing show Stannis but i’m rather frustrated by the overusage of the term “character assassination”. Pretty sure I dodged all the spoilers, tho. For what that’s worth. :D

  87. loco73
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 3:22 am | Permalink

    OZ…and this is coming from a Sullied…your posting was a pleasure to read and funny as hell! Keep up the good work!

    Personally, I like Stannis, both book Stannis and show Stannis! I think he got handed a rotten deal since birth. Think about it, he is the middle child…I mean who the hell wants to be he middle child?! Talk about being overlooked and ignored all your lfe, which is pretty much what Stannis’s life has been all about! Yet he was expected to grin and bear it (not grinning as in smiling ;-)! Stannis’s entire existence has been about duty and about what is right, while both his brothers got to do what they wanted and live their lives as they saw fit most of the time!

    Robert rebelled, covered himself in glory and became ruler of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros, while Renly was popular, well liked by all and got to make out with Mr. Sword Swallower himself (the Queen of Thorns’ words not mine) the Knight Of Flowers, Ser Loras Tyrell!

    Meanwhile Stannis lived through perhaps one of the most harrowing episodes of the rebellion against the Mad King, you get a sense of what he endured during the siege of Storm’s End, when he discusses it with Davos…and he basically gets overlooked and shunned, but he accepts his fate and keeps on doing his duty as expected of him.

    He is stuck in a loveless marriage, with a wife that is pretty much a nutbar and hasn’t given him any heirs, besides the jar babies we saw, and has a daughter, that while sweet, extremely smart and intuitive, is scarred for life by greyscale and looks like someone took a cheesegratter to her face…and he as a father has to live with this!

    Yes the man is dour, grimm, stiff and has seemingly no likable traits to speak off, but can you blame him, his entire life has been one long grimm, grey, painful dissappointment. Yet through it all he has managed to remain a loyal and honourable man who stood by his principles and kept performing his duty long after he could have given up.

    I doubt Stannis has ever known real love in his life or even real kindness…as none were ever directed towards him. Yet with all that he clearly cares for his daughter, just doesn’t know how to express it, and then there is Davos!

    Can anyone tell me of any of the other nobles who have done as much for a commoner as Stannis did for Davos and his family? Can you imagine the Lannisters doing something similar? Hell even my darlings, the Starks, messed up…Catelyn Stark treated Jon Snow like shit and though a bastard he was Eddard’s son and had Stark blood in him, and their solution was to basically ship him off to the Night’s Watch!

    Finally, I think none of us can deny Davos Seaworth’s heart, honour and humanity! So Davos clearly saw something in Stannis that made him love the man, be loyal and follow him into the very pit of hell! Yes Stannis rewarded him for his courageous act of help, but there is much more than that between those two men. The bond between Stannis and Davos goes beyond titles and honours…even now when Stannis seems to be going off the rails…

    So in all this steps Melissandre, a woman, hell a person, unlike Stannis has ever seen or dealt with. And she tells him that his worth is much more than he has ever thought off himself, that he is a true king, a hero and that he has a part to play in shaping the fate of all in the times ahead! Can you blame Stannis for wanting that, after a lifetime of supressing his own ambition and wants, for loyalty and duty?

    In conclusion, I think that Stannis deserves a lot more love than he is getting both in the books and the show!

    PS I love what Stephen Dillane has done with the character, a fine actor doing a fine, fine job at portraying one of the least liked and least understood characters from the ASOIF/GoT saga!

  88. Maester Tcost
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 3:45 am | Permalink

    Has anyone else noticed that the phrase Stannis, the Grumpy Lobster scans so nicely to Rudolph, the Red-Nosed Reindeer?

    As a Sullied Reader, I enjoy Stannis — but I hate him with the burning fury of a thousand novas! Renly, for all of his faults, still would have made the best King in generations, and Stannis cannot be forgiven for his fratricide by proxy.

  89. Metrael
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 3:47 am | Permalink

    Pepi,

    The fact that Stannis is not a POV character and we’re neve able to see a scene between him and Mel by themselves in the books does not justify these scenes, unless you think he has some kind of bipolarity and act totally different when he is alone. Stannis did never show any kind of affection for Melisandre in front of Davos, because they don’t love each other, their relationship is all about mutual benefits.
    We also don’t have POVs of Varys or Petyr, should I believe that they are secret lovers and make sex every night in the Red Keep? I don’t think so.

    Stannis doesn’t believe in R’hllor but he does believe in Melisandre. Everyone knows that she has powers, we can’t deny it. But he never goes “blind mode” doing everything she tells him to. He actually listens much more to Davos’ advices than to hers.

  90. GeekFurious
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 4:02 am | Permalink

    Metrael:
    Pepi,

    The fact that Stannis is not a POV character and we’re neve able to see a scene between him and Mel by themselves in the books does not justify these scenes, unless you think he has some kind of bipolarity and act totally different when he is alone. Stannis did never show any kind of affection for Melisandre in front of Davos, because they don’t love each other, their relationship is all about mutual benefits.
    We also don’t have POVs of Varys or Petyr, should I believe that they are secret lovers and make sex every night in the Red Keep? I don’t think so.

    Stannis doesn’t believe in R’hllor but he does believe in Melisandre. Everyone knows that she has powers, we can’t deny it. But he never goes “blind mode” doing everything she tells him to. He actually listens much more to Davos’ advices than to hers.

    TV writing “justifies” the scenes.

  91. Swords
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 4:05 am | Permalink

    i might be wrong with Stannis but i just don’t like this guy. but i haven’t read the books. seems like you guys like him very much which i don’t get to be honest. no offense to you, i’m just saying that i don’t think that his storyline will be great in season 4. yeah wow he’s heading to the wall, saving the night watchers from the wildlings, meeting Jon…wow, i can’t see why this is exciting.
    cut Stannis and his red witch out and give more screentime to Tyrion, Cersei, Tywin, Arya, Sansa and Dany next season.

  92. Patricia
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 4:16 am | Permalink

    I think that Dany and Stannis would be the best Queen/King for Westeros. Looking forward to both of their storylines next year :)

  93. Gaius Baltar
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 4:28 am | Permalink

    Some book Stannis fans are delusional about him. Ofcourse he would feel atraction to Mellisandre, a guy like him who is all about duty and rules would not become an adulterer if he did not have strong feeling for foreign exotic beautifull woman, who tell him he is a rightfull king and a mesiah. And yes he would act very differently when he is alone with a woman, then when he is among his male soldiers and subjects. As any other man would.

    I like both book and show Stannis, i actually do not see them being much different (unlike Cercei) and i like whole Dragonstone trumvirate from thier very first scene in season 2 when i was not book reader at that time, so it is possible to like show Stannis without reading of books.

  94. Kael of the Lake
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 4:30 am | Permalink

    loco73,

    I really think you’ve nailed it. Add to that that he never whines. He might get furious sometimes or even bitter but whining is not his thing.

    He’s also the man that, besides duty, he gives some space to logic. That’s why many times he ‘s like the ping-pong ball between Davos and Mel. He’s eager to change his mind if the last argument was valid and even support an opinion even if it is against his will as long as it makes more sense.

    We’ve seen so many times “I’ll throw you to the dungeon”/ “You’ll be my hand” / “I’ll condemn you to death” / “You’ll lead the fleet”. He is the man of the moment and faces every decision without the emotional burden, only with the facts in hand. That’s why he (believes he) is just.

  95. Pepi
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 4:44 am | Permalink

    Metrael,

    It’s not about bipolarity. It’s about the fact that he can’t show affection (if you can call dependance affection, that is — because when a person is convinced, he has no other options, the two can be hard to distinguish) to her due to jim being married to Selyse. And due to the fact that blood magic is generally frowned upon. He’s not going to publicly state that he’ll have a session of sex with Melisandre and that his enemies will die shortly after. Also, believing in the powers of a priest and not believing in his god is … partial. Almost an oxymoron. The only time Stan is in “blind mode” as far as I’m concerned, is when he executing people via fire. That goes for the show same as it goes for the books. Gonna say this, tho; I’m trying not to look at show Stannis as in show version of book Stannis. I’m trying to look at show Stannis as in (for our intents and purposes) new character, who’s been slighted of his birthright and is now — cought between two factions (one of which makes him feel better while the other shows actual results) — trying to do his duty (which is ruling the kingdom). Which is esentially the same as book Stannis, although granted, some of the situations were slightly altered.

    EDIT: Meh … Kael of the Lake said it times better and much more to the point than me in my ramblings. xD

  96. Harry
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 4:51 am | Permalink

    Metrael: Book Stannis is definitely more interesting and has more personality than his TV version.

    Exactly my opinion. D&D don’t like Stannis, but they like Melisandre. And the adaption of this favorizing is what you see on TV. Book Stannis is definitely more interesting and has more personality.

    However, I liked him in S2 more. I liked the scene where Stannis said “Show me how you fight” because it was well played by Dillane. And in S2 he really appeared as the leader he is in the books. But in S3 they overplayed him being “broken” after his first defeat.

  97. Selmy
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 4:51 am | Permalink

    outdoorcats,

    I would recommend carrying on with Luther even if its just for Elba. I’m afraid I can’t say I share your opinion on Hannibal. I have seen the first season and found it mildly diverting. Each episode was just interesting enough to make to want to watch the next one and at the end of the finale I thought; “……… meh.” I love Mads Mikkelsen but got pretty bored of his performance quite quickly as it seemed to mainly center around modelling suits and eating and preparing strange gourmet food.

    My favorite shows around at the moment are Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad. I really couldn’t choose between them I love them both so much. Also been enjoying Dexter (but glad its coming to and end), Boardwalk Empire, Mad Men, House of Cards, Sons of Anarchy, Luther, Sherlock, Black Mirror, The Borgias (sad that its been cancelled) and the Americans had a very promising first season.

  98. Nezzer
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 5:01 am | Permalink

    Guys, mark your spoilers, please. This is an Unsullied thread.

  99. Aegpn the Conqueror
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    Loved Stannis since the first time I met him in a Clash of Kings, rooted for him at Blackwater!
    Whatever the Unsullied may think of him, you have to give it to the man, he’s tough as hell. No helmet or shield during the battle anyone?

  100. Hounded
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 5:46 am | Permalink

    Nezzer,

    I lower my proverbial sword in surrender ser. Good points all and well said.

  101. A wildling Bastard
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 5:50 am | Permalink

    Swords:

    You sound like a Whore working in a Brothel in Casterly Rock ..

  102. Swords
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 7:02 am | Permalink

    A wildling Bastard,

    no need to be offensive. you are annoying. let’s discuss like normal people. and yes, i forgive you ;)

    To make it clear: I’m a unsullied, not book reader and from what i’ve seen so far in the show i dislike Stannis the most. He listens to Melisandre like a baby, does everything she says, has no opinion and treats Davos like crap. My opinion could change, but until then I don’t like him. It’s as easy as that.

    And people in this thread are mostly able to discuss normally so please let’s keep this. I want the Game of Thrones fans to talk peacefully and not use words like whore etc in a normal discussion. we’re not in the show, we’re just talking about it.

  103. Joshua Taylor
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    Selmy,

    Keeping in mind that I love all the shows that you mentioned and would easily place Hannibal amongst them, where or how exactly did Hannibal lose you emotionally? It seems when i talk about the show with my other peeps there has been a polarizing effect. It’s fascinating to me in terms of discussion when one person sees things entirely different than the other. From your opinion it seems that the show’s visual element comes off as pretentious and thereby not allowing you to dig in emotionally with the story. Do you think you can pinpoint it?

  104. loco73
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    Ser Aliser Thorne is also in “King Arthur “

  105. A wildling Bastard
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Swords,
    i agree with you.. but your repetitive posts about Stannis being an awful character kinda forced me into it.. Immature i know.. but since you’re unsullied.. i can see why the sudden hate.. as D&D said they had to slow down the development of some of the characters on the show, Jaime lannister was one of the most hated characters in both season 1 and 2. after season 3 he’s the most likable character on GoT .. Give Stannis one more season :) .. i’m sure you’ll be amazed at how things will turn out for him ..

  106. Swords
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    A wildling Bastard,

    You’re right i should give him one more season and who knows, maybe i get a nice surprise like it was with Jaime.

  107. Dan
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    Metrael,

    I’m Unsullied, and seriously, dude, I don’t freakin’ care. I actually enjoy show Stannis. But your comment that those who haven’t read the book don’t know Stannis while you do makes you look rather arrogant.

  108. Card of Doom
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    2 things…

    1. The Animated Histories & Lore on the Blue Ray sets do a pretty good job of giving you some Stannis background. I am sure someone can find a link so you can watch it on YouTube.

    -He is a prick but I like him more and more as time goes on.

    2. I always thought that the thing about his “fires burning low” meant that the magic they used when they made the smoke-monster-baby sort of sucked away some of his life force, aging him….and that he would die if they did it again.

    -And I don’t think he wanted sex from her. I am sure it’s a bonus but I really do believe that he just wants another smoke-baby that he can send to kill his enemies.

  109. The Kingshaver
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    I’m Sullied to the max, so I won’t comment on plot developments; NO SPOILERS!

    What I will say though, is that Oz’s analysis of Stannis’ character seem pretty much on the money to me. Stannis is a hard man to like and he can be a ruthless bastard, but he does still have admirable qualities. He just needs Davos to help bring them out!

    Great post Oz! Always nice to hear a fresh perspective.

  110. valyrian
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    Seriously what the hell is wrong wih you book readers???? DEAR GOD GO FIND ATTENTION SOMEWHERE ELSE. Stop playing dumb as if you didn’t know what NO SPOILERS mean!!!!! All the unsullied CAN READ they don’t read the books because they DON’T WANT TO not because they need these condescending idiots to explain why this or that character is “ruined” in the show.

  111. Selmy
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    Dan,

    If you don’t like people discussing things in depth then you’re barking up the wrong franchise.

    Joshua Taylor,

    I don’t know what it is with Hannibal but I was never that impressed with it. Yeah I guess I did find it a bit pretentious and pseudo-psychological and it all came off very hollow to me. Yes its very nicely shot and framed and lit and the acting for the most part is good but that counts for nothing when the story isn’t up to much. Endless conversations around dinner tables (I wonder what the meat is!?! Good heavens it could be human flesh! GASP!) and endless therapy meetings… ahh I just found it a drag. It doesn’t seem to have gone down very well here in the UK (I’ve read mainly negative write-ups in our TV guides and things). I guess its because we’re used to such a high standard when it comes to TV export from the US that when something isn’t as good as the rest it stands out a mile. It’s not a terrible show or even a bad show but some (Americans) calling it the best show on TV… I just don’t understand that at all.

  112. Grijnwaald
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    valyrian:
    Seriously what the hell is wrong wih you book readers???? DEAR GOD GO FIND ATTENTION SOMEWHERE ELSE. Stop playing dumb as if you didn’t know what NO SPOILERS mean!!!!! All the unsullied CAN READ they don’t read the books because they DON’T WANT TO not because they need these condescending idiots to explain whythis or that character is “ruined” in the show.

    This……..seriously just #%£@ off if you want to talk about the books, Getting the plot spoiled for you isn’t nice at all, genuinely.

  113. Dan
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    Selmy,

    Then this is why this franchise’s fanbase needs to take their heads out of their collective asses, then…

  114. gillist419
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    My favorite character in the show is Devos. ( In the books it is the half man.) I like Stannis, but I think it is Devos’ opinion of Stannis that makes me like him.

  115. DABC
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    Oz… what are your predictions for Gendry??

    I am a sullied here. I don”t think I’m spoiling anything to say that his story has veered significantly from the books (I won’t say how).

    So interestingly your unsullied guess would be as good as any sullied at this point. I’m interested to hear your thoughts.

  116. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    Jeff O’Connor: We agreed that it was Dillane’s mannerisms that really drove Stannis home for him in that episode. There’s a peculiar “uncomfortable sneering” in Dillane’s approach that is both classic and meme-worthy.

    Agreed. Those scenes with his wife and daughter really did a nice job of opening up that character and making him something fully realized. Then again, I’ve always liked how Dillane plays that character myself.

    And for Selmy, I’m a big fan of Idris Elba too. People keep talking about him for Game of Thrones, and as much as I’d love to see him, he’s too big now for any of the parts left. The only way he’d work on the show were to be if D&D came out and announced they were going to start over just for the hell of it and then cast him as Ned Stark.

  117. Selmy
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    GreatJon of Slumber,

    Haha Idris as Ned would be amazing.
    Perhaps he could play all of the remaining roles that are left?

  118. Winter Is Coming
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    Had to delete a bunch of spoilery posts; some subtle, some not-so-subtle. Please folks, don’t talk about the books in here. Especially future events.

  119. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    Selmy:
    GreatJon of Slumber,

    Haha Idris as Ned would be amazing.
    Perhaps he could play all of the remaining roles that are left?

    Yeah that’s basically what I’m thinking. I mean, seriously, if you could have a do-over on this, Elba would be a great Ned, a great Stannis, he’d even work well as Bronn, Littlefinger, Jorah Mormont, any of ‘em.

  120. the other guy
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    After reading some unsullied comments on this, I really wonder if it was a good idea to telegraph Stannis’ arrival at the Wall the way they did. Other than that, I’m really satisfied with the way D&D chose to portray Stannis. And Dilliane is excellent.

  121. Oz of Thrones
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    DABC,

    I will definitely include Gendry in a future segment of the series…. there are some smaller story lines I want to touch on, so there will likely be a Part ??: Miscellaneous.

    The Kingshaver,

    Thank you for your kind compliment!

  122. franco
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    DABC:
    Oz… what are your predictions for Gendry??

    I second this, please Oz, can you make some predictions for Gendry next season, it will be fun to read since, in a way, we’re all unsullied about his story next year

    ETA: Oops, sorry, didn’t see your last post :p

  123. Nezzer
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    I think it would be interesting to read your thoughts about the future of the North, now that the Starks are exiled and the Boltons seized power. What are your theories?

  124. Oz of Thrones
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    franco,

    No problem!

    Nezzer,

    Coming soon…. even after what they did to Robb and Co at the Frey joint, I am quite intrigued with the Boltons. I really enjoy the actor that plays Roose (James Bond Bolton).

  125. Joshua Taylor
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    If you like Roose you’ll enjoy this: a glimpse at his home life (nothing to do with GoT though so no spoilers).

    http://youtu.be/B1xxqPE4I4g

  126. Davy
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones:
    franco,

    No problem!

    Nezzer,

    Coming soon…. even after what they did to Robb and Co at the Frey joint, I am quite intrigued with the Boltons.I really enjoy the actor that plays Roose (James Bond Bolton).

    I wonder, will there be a looking forward for the newly cast characters too? As those are announced here without much spoilers. Would love to see what you think of all those new characters based on names, looks of actors and possible small descriptions that might be posted on this site about those characters.

  127. Selmy
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    I agree thoroughly with you here. After reading the Red Wedding I hated the Freys with the intensity of a thousand suns but Roose… he’s just too damn cool. (If also despicable and treacherous).And yeah the guy that plays him is great. It would be great if you could do some predictions of Roose and Ramsay. I think the Boltons trump the Lannisters as Westeros’s most messed up family!

  128. Traveling Targaryen
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    I believe Stannis is one of those characters that grows with time. Every character develops throughout the story, and Stannis does as well. Although I’m not “Team Stannis” or anything, I respect Stannis and they way he handles certain situations. I definitely do think that those Unsullied who aren’t fans of Stannis should give him a chance, as they should any character. He hasn’t done anything wrong to any fan favorites. Sure, he killed his borhter in season 2. I can understand why people don’t like him due to that. However, other than that, he’s a perfect candidate for the throne. He is against Joffery and the Lannisters! How could someone not like, or at least applaud, him after that!
    As to what he’ll do in the future, I cannot say even if I wanted to. I don’t wish to spoil anyone, so I’ll leave you with this.

    He hasn’t done anything truly wrong to any characters. He’s been hypnotized by a mad, red woman. Give him a chance before you rule him out as one of your “favorite” or even “likable” characters. Valar Morghulis.

  129. H. Stark
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    Has Carice already finished her work in GOT 4? In a week?

    https://twitter.com/caricevhouten/status/356851228820512770

  130. 3eyes
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    Welcome back Oz! The Mannis has definitely grown on me since Blackwater, and does seem a bit Aspy, which makes him more sympathetic. Bottom line – I’d want him at my side if I was facing White Walkers, and I don’t doubt he’ll be heroic in S4. So thankful you’ll be with us through the long wait!

  131. Patchyface
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    H. Stark,
    Saw a twitter from carice that she was going to belfast on sunday. Could this mean inside scenes are a wrap for team dragonstone and the rest will be shot in iceland?

  132. Jon Blackfyre
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    awesome. I want a shirt that said Stannis the Mannis.
    Sit Davos on the Iron Throne.
    Stannis must die. “No man is so accursed as the Kinslayer” . “The gods hate kinslayers, even when they kill unknowing.”

  133. patchface
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    I like Stannis, but he’s still a kinslayer. He has no right to the Iron Throne.

  134. Traveling Targaryen
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    Jon Blackfyre,

    Davos on the throne is a thought that never occurred to me. He annoyed me in the books, but I quite like the way Liam Cunningham (sp?) is portraying him on the show. I wouldn’t mind seeing him on the throne, but I doubt he’d want it. It seems like the best characters (Ned, Davos, etc.) are the ones that don’t want the Iron Throne, haha.

  135. John
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    H. Stark,

    Don’t think so, she started early today (she twittered pick up was ca. 5AM). The scenes she shot today were with Shireen (Kerry Ingram commented on the pic on instagram)

  136. Oz of Thrones
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Taylor,

    That is just phenomenal. In that one minute clip, you can see just how good of an actor he is. His disposition doesn’t even come close to resembling that of Roose. I’m a fan of McElhatton.

    Davy,

    Planning on doing that in the Part ??: Miscellaneous…. I don’t know enough about them to justify a whole write-up on it, but they deserve mention for simply being referenced in the show thus far.

    Selmy,

    Agree 100%.

  137. Nezzer
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    Patchyface,

    I don’t think so. Castle Black is shot in Northern Ireland. I believe she’s just finished shooting a part of the season. We haven’t heard anything about Kit Harington, have we?

  138. outdoorcats
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    GreatJon of Slumber,

    And Ruth Wilson would be Melisandre.

  139. NoxAeturnus
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    Fannis of the Stannis? Stannis the mannis? Anyone know what his plannis?

    I am amused.

  140. Tom Erdenay
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    I try to avoid posting here as much as possible, but I guess I’ll just add my voice this time as well. I do see Stannis from books and show to be quite different, but Dillane is doing a superb job with the material he’s given. I honestly do prefer book Stannis, but it’s not fair to compare as books have advanced more.

    RE: Character itself

    As most other mentioned, he just has this stealthy growth on you. When I first watched my 2 seasons of GoT and then read ASoIaF, I didn’t even like Stannis at all. But, eventually, I’ve started to notice that now he’s one of my favourite characters – a transition I’ve completely missed… It just happened! Also, I’d highly recommend to people that dislike Stannis for his character to closely rewatch/reread what you have on him – and suddenly you will notice that he’s not only hilarious, but also a really great character.

  141. springwillcome
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    Like with other people Stannis has grown on me this last season.
    Having said that – he is still the guy who was throwing leeches into a fire saying Robb’s name to go with it – his intentions clearly somewhat sinister. Personally I can’t help feeling he is probably as much to blame for the red wedding as Tywin Lannister, Roose Bolton and Walder Frey.
    And yes – I know we haven’t got any proof (yet???), it could be a coincidence as Davos pointed out (he sounded like he desperately wanted to cling to that hope despite fearing the opposite though) …, and no – I don’t think he (Stannis) is only a puppet on a string… .
    Basically it comes down to those facts: Stannis Baratheon wanted (and still wants) to be king – Robb Stark was in his way and now Robb Stark is dead …. .

  142. Selmy
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    NoxAeturnus,

    I am also. Thoroughly well done.

  143. Dogmayor
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

    springwillcome,

    His intentions were not sinister. Stannis has made it very clear what his feelings on the matter are: “they will bend the knee or I will destroy them.” He is the rightful king and usurpers must be eliminated.

    How anyone could think that Stannis is as responsible as the people who planned and carried out the slaughter of Robb and Catelyn is beyond me. It is clear that it had been planned since before Stannis threw the leeches into the fire.

    One of the most important aspects of understanding who Stannis is, is the realization that he doesn’t want to be king, he believes it’s his duty to be king. He explicitly stated this in the show.

  144. Sweeting
    Posted July 15, 2013 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

    Great article, great comments. Such a vast, rich world created by GRRM. I succumbed to reading the books halfway through season 1 because I had to know what happened next and have been immersed ever since.. Now that I know what happens through book 5, I love the nonbook reader perspective of experiencing the show without that knowledge.

  145. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted July 16, 2013 at 2:40 am | Permalink

    Dan,

    Is it arrogant to realise those who have read all the books know more about a certain character than those who haven’t? I think it’s just pure logic. But that’s just me.

  146. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted July 16, 2013 at 2:45 am | Permalink

    Maester Tcost,

    Like the Queen of Thorns said, paraphrasing here, being able to dress prettily and look lordly doesn’t mean he would make a good king.

  147. Dan
    Posted July 16, 2013 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    Knowing so much more about a character from reading the books is one thing. Going about bragging about it and trying to convince people that they are lesser than you makes you a complete tool. Who knows, maybe there are book fans who appreciate show Stannis more?

  148. Dan
    Posted July 16, 2013 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    Aegon the Conqueror,

    Btw, it’s that “logical arrogance” that makes people look like stereotypical geeks who need to get a life.

  149. who even?
    Posted July 16, 2013 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    Dan:
    Aegon the Conqueror,

    Who knows, maybe there are book fans who appreciate show Stannis more?

    As far as I know, there aren’t

  150. who even?
    Posted July 16, 2013 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    I should make myself clearer. I mean that I’ve never seen a book reader who likes him more in the show. At best, I’ve had them feel he’s the same.

  151. Dan
    Posted July 16, 2013 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    who even?,

    Most of my own friends are non-book readers. My book reader friends don’t seem to have any issue with show Stannis like some of the comments permeating this thread.

  152. who even?
    Posted July 16, 2013 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    Not having a problem with him is not the same as appreciating him more. I was responding to that. I haven’t meet anyone who prefers him in his show form. They all seem to either feel the same or think it’s worse

  153. Dan
    Posted July 16, 2013 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    who even?,

    Then shall we disseminate a scientific survey regarding this inquiry?

  154. Kris
    Posted July 16, 2013 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    I love book Stannis. I also happen to like show Stannis more. I think they’ve done well fleshing out the character. Are there differences absolutely. However, I do not understand fellow book readers that go, “Stannis would never….” I often wonder what special edition Stannis POV chapters they have access to the rest of us don’t. Stannis is a fleshed out human being on the show and we see things we didn’t see in the books. He is much more human on the series because in book we see him through a few povs.

    Stannis the warrior Mannis is fun. However, it is Stannis the human being, flaws, contradictions and all that drew me to the character…in the book and show.

  155. Jon Blackfyre
    Posted July 16, 2013 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

    who even?,

    Dan,

    Hard question. I love Stephen Dillane portrayel of him. His acting is not the problem. The writers have written him differently from in the books. I like both characters. I think if i pretended I didnt read in more of the books then where we are in the show i would prefer show stannis. but i know know more of stannis story cuz of the books so that makes me enjoy book stannis better.

  156. Aegon the Conqueror
    Posted July 16, 2013 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

    Dan,

    who even?,

    Wrong there! The two are very similar however book Stannis leads armies like Tywin does, from the rear. That was the original plan with Stannis but while shooting Blackwater they really felt.the need to contras Stannis with Joff. Hence the lack of a helmet, shield and the very impractical armour. However his ability to lead from the front gives series Stannis the nod over book Stannis imo.

  157. WinterQueene
    Posted July 17, 2013 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    Stannis is my King, I’m Team Dragonstone all the way. He might not be the King Westeros wants, but I believe he’s the king they need.

    My dad is like a combination between Stannis and Davos, I can see so much of him in both of them, so they have a special place in my heart. :)

  158. cabbo
    Posted July 17, 2013 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    Davos is Azor Ahai reborn.

  159. Charles
    Posted July 17, 2013 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    I’m pretty sure the battle in the snow that Stannis saw gazing into Mel’s flame was the Battle being fought at that very time betweeen the Night’s Watch and the White Walkers, which is why Mel is so convinced that going to the wall is a good idea after Davos mentions Maester Aemon’s letter. Although it could be the sign of a battle yet to come. Who knows? But my interpretation was always the battle at the end of Season 2, beginning of Season 3.

  160. Ser Rico
    Posted July 20, 2013 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    Regarding the Veeps:
    If you didnt want to be political you shouldn’t have made a political statement. It not smart even if yoiu think it was.


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