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GRRM teases “the wedding of the year”

Joffrey and Margaery in the Sept

We’re still nearly 6 months away from season 4 premiering, but George R. R. Martin is already teasing the pending royal nuptials, calling it “the wedding of the year”. He tells TV Guide:

“It’s going to be the wedding of the year, and as memorable in its own way as our wedding last season,” promises the books’ author, George R.R. Martin, of the marriage of King Joffrey Baratheon (Jack Gleeson) and Margaery Tyrell (Natalie Dormer). “It’s what the fans call the Purple Wedding, based on the color of the wine, which plays a big part.”

Martin says the wedding scenes “look spectacular. The bride’s dress incorporates roses, there are 77 courses at the dinner feast, and there’s some wonderful halftime entertainment.”

Winter Is Coming: Based on recent set photos of the event, it does look like quite the extravagant affair. And if current speculation is correct, it seems like Martin himself will pen the episode.

142 Comments

  • Hodor!

    I love his description of why its called the purple wedding, very non-spoilery, hahaha! Cant wait to see it!

  • GeekFurious:
    I consider this whole thing a massive spoiler and guarantee it will lead to people coming to the conclusion that it is the end of Joff.

    I agree. But what I’m most curious about: how will they make that giant Lion Head not look cheasy?

  • GeekFurious:
    I consider this whole thing a massive spoiler and guarantee it will lead to people coming to the conclusion that it is the end of Joff.

    Yeah, probably. The wine will “play a big part”? Well, many will instantly think of poison. He should have been more careful.

  • Excited to see how wonderfully illustrated Tyrion’s four-of-a-kind book is

    also, I wouldn’t think this would be an event suited to George as it’s one that requires so much change and adaptation with all the extravagances (the courses, the seven singers) that wouldn’t work on screen and without Garlan + Leonette and Kevan to talk with Tyrion

  • Veltigar: I agree. But what I’m most curious about: how will they make that giant Lion Head not look cheasy?

    LOL yeah was that designed by the newly hired Moulin Rouge set director? Though it may play much better on screen than in the early set picture.

    IMHO GRRM’s quote is not too spoilery. It’s a small nod to book fans while not giving away anything to unsullied.

  • GeekFurious,

    I agree, although maybe it was intentional – to keep the unsullied invested in the show, by hinting that season 4 is not going to be a Lannister victory train. Just in case they forgot already about the leeches ;-)

  • Lollius Palicanus,

    Should be half halftime entertainment. WiC, you should totally put a spoiler warning at the beginning of the post.

    OT: I can’t believe they chose to make it episode 2. We should a all prepare for a mouthful of King’s Landing in the first couple of episodes for all the necessary set ups. He’ll, we might get another King’s Landing only episode for the wedding.

  • Those aren’t set photos from the actual Purple Wedding, are they? Why is it outside? Or is that just the nuptials? The reception’s still in the Throne Room, right?

  • GG,

    I think this is the actual Purple Wedding. The whole feast will be probably outside and it wasn’t important in the book that it happens in the throne room…

  • I keep wondering if we are seeing the day time set up, maybe even a rehearsal , because for certain events to fit … the whole event needs to take place at night… tho I guess that could be worked around with enough ingenuity.

  • Yes, just by singling the PW out it seems fairly obvious that something big is going to go down, and the unsullied will therefore realise that someone major is going to die. But, to be fair the real meat of the season will be in the fallout from the PW – esp. Tyrion and the start of Cercei’s descent into delusional paranoia. Personally, I think the real ‘holy shit’ moment of S4 (in King’s Landing anyway) will be Tyrion’s escape and murdering of papa Lannister & Shae (i heard that Sibel Kekilli had pleaded with D&D not to kill her off. I sincerely hope they ignored her, if this is the case).

  • There are probably a lot of practical filming considerations for doing it outside. Much more space for cameras, better filming angles, can have a larger crowd than the existing sets would allow, etc.

    And the joust is going to be ten times easier to film outdoors.

    Kind of like why they changed the battle of Blackwater to take place at night.

  • Jentario,

    Did they say it would be in episode 2? I think that would be too little time to introduce Dorne. That would put the trial way to ealy IMO. I cant wait for the “halftime show”

  • Ser Endrew Tarth: LOL yeah was that designed by the newly hired Moulin Rouge set director? Though it may play much better on screen than in the early set picture.

    I think it’s intentionally garish, honestly. Which, given what costuming people have said about the increasingly florid dress for Joff, seems appropriate and not out of place. It’s meant to look a bit ridiculous.

  • I think you guys are reading a whole lot more into GRRM’s comment than a random Unsullied would. Of course this wedding is going to be a big event, it’s the marriage of the king and was talked about all of last season. So GRRM hyping it up isn’t really a spoiler. What would make it spoilery is me slapping a giant spoiler warning on the post thereby raising the suspicions of all the Unsullied. This mostly blacked-out comment thread probably doesn’t help either, but at least most Unsullied aren’t venturing into the comments.

  • Well I’m glad explained why it’s called PW…I guess I didn’t notice the wine color before so that name for the event was always a mystery to me.

  • Way ahead of you, over on Game of Thrones Wiki: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Season_4

    While the Lannisters have crushed their external enemies, the enemies within their ranks are growing in strength, and are on the verge of a major power play. The Lannisters only managed to win on the battlefield with the key support of House Tyrell of the Reach, which they won through promising a marriage-alliance between King Joffrey and Margaery Tyrell, daughter of Lord Mace Tyrell. Queen Regent Cersei fears – correctly – that just as the Baratheons became dependent on the Lannisters in order to overthrow the old Targaryen dynasty, the Lannisters are starting to become dependent on the Tyrells, who are already insinuating themselves into positions of power at King’s Landing. A royal wedding is to be held between Joffrey and Margaery, which will confirm the future of the realm.

    For those concerned, I went ahead and made a “Purple Wedding” article on Game of Thrones wiki, then made an Administrator-level lock of the blank page: there will be no spoilers. http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Purple_Wedding

  • Winter Is Coming,

    Since you seem to read the thread allow me to re-post a question I had for you that I unfortunately never got an answer to. Guess you simply overlooked it. :-)

    Off-Topic:
    @WiC: Because there isn’t much else going on at the moment I thought I ask a question that preys on my mind for quiet a long time now. About a year ago you were planning on a “complete redesign of the site”. Is that still to happen or is the idea dead by now?

  • Abyss,

    It is still a goal of mine, but I’m not sure when it will be done. Real life has been hectic for me recently, having just switched jobs and had a baby. Hopefully I can get it live before the start of the new season!

  • There are different levels of unsullied. I’d wager that most spend ten, maybe eleven hours a year thinking about GoT. There is a rather small overlap of people who have not read the books, don’t want to be spoiled, and yet read [stories about] GRRM interviews. The man drops riddles like farts. Big hints, little hints, significant news, pointless trivia: if an unsullied reads enough to start getting what’s what, well, they’re toeing a line.

    Plus, any unsullied seeing this interview has likely already stumbled across “PW” or “Purple Wedding,” anyways, so the mild misdirection could work.

  • But what I’m most curious about: how will they make that giant Lion Head not look cheasy?

    It’s possible that the giant Lion Head is *supposed* to look tacky and garish within the narrative, i.e. Tyrion will comment on how cheasy it looks.

  • House Mormont:
    Excited to see how wonderfully illustrated Tyrion’s four-of-a-kind book is

    Wait, where did you see a photo of that book?

    ***Actually, I think “halftime entertainment” refers to the dwarf jesters that were hired to perform – casting reports confirm that some dwarf stuntmen went to Croatia to work on Game of Thrones.

  • A Man Grown,

    It’s actually called “The Purple Wedding” for a couple of reasons, another of which is that the “King on the Iron Throne” isn’t just a “King” – Westeros is an entire continent (the size of South America), and it’s Seven Kingdoms combined — Tywin Lannister is equal in power and number of troops he can field to the King of England, and Ned Stark to the King of Scotland.

    Thus the “King on the Iron Throne” isn’t so much a “king” as he is equal to a Roman Emperor in the scale of his power.

    And purple is infamously the imperial color, i.e. the expression “born to the purple” for the son of a sitting emperor. It’s the imperial color because purple is the most expensive color dye.

    So the name “Red Wedding” was already used, so people sort of settled on “Purple Wedding” as a contrast, i.e. Joffrey is “the emperor” of Westeros.

  • I really don’t have a problem with them laying it on thick. I might prefer that everyone sees it coming and we can call just kick back, relax and enjoy the festivities.

  • Winter Is Coming,
    Congrats on the new baby! I’m sure there are lots of sleepless nights.

    As far as GRRM’s comment, it is a bit “spoilery”. However, the Unsullied that I know will not be surprised by the events of the PW. I agree with the poster upthread that said that the events that follow the PW – Tyrion blamed, Sansa escapes, deaths of Oberyn, Tywin and Shae deaths – will prove more shocking.

  • House Mormont,

    Not a major spoiler, just regarding one of the characters you mentioned:

    Ian Gelder (Kevan Lannister) has been spotted in a couple of behind the scenes photos. Perhaps this means he will chat with Tyrion.

  • Kyle,

    Really where? I haven’t seen him in any pics yet?

    Those pics posted by Hoyti Von Totiy above look very interesting, lots of potential food right there for Drogon.

  • GeekFurious:
    I consider this whole thing a massive spoiler and guarantee it will lead to people coming to the conclusion that it is the end of Joff.

    Agreed.

  • I always thought it was called the Purple Wedding because purple is traditionally the color of royalty…

    And before I read the book I always thought it was Joffry’s wedding people were referring to when they said “Red Wedding” because of the Red Keep…

    I feel stupid.

  • Kyle,

    I hope so, the show really needs to re-introduce and build up Kevan. His confrontation of Cersei in early aFfC was one of my favourite scenes, and his death won’t be a big moment if the audience doesn’t care about him

  • Winter Is Coming,

    also Thanks for the response, WiC, as several others have queried as well.

    Congratulations on your newest & precious priority. May you be prosperous and
    productive. All the best , to you and yours !

  • I have always believed it was Purple Wedding due to the color Joff’s face takes when he is dying. I had been wrong my entire life…

  • Winter Is Coming:
    I think you guys are reading a whole lot more into GRRM’s comment than a random Unsullied would. Of course this wedding is going to be a big event, it’s the marriage of the king and was talked about all of last season. So GRRM hyping it up isn’t really a spoiler. What would make it spoilery is me slapping a giant spoiler warning on the post thereby raising the suspicions of all the Unsullied. This mostly blacked-out comment thread probably doesn’t help either, but at least most Unsullied aren’t venturing into the comments.

    Totally agree, with respects to GRRM not spoiling anything. He’s excited about
    the new season, as he should be, and pushing the agenda.

    While most here comply with tagging our spoilers, to respect those not up
    to speed with the books or episodes, there remains a degree of responsibility
    for the ” Unsullied ” that insist on previewing unaired or unread insights.

    News and events are desired by all, however information gleaned online,
    can be tainted with insights deemed too sensitive for some to realise too soon.
    It comes down to individual choice, accountable to one’s own actions to proceed
    at risk. It’s possible to remain a devoted fan and holding on to the ecstasy from
    viewing the episode outright .Disclaimer or no, some unsullied don’t wish to
    ” spoil ” the experience. The rest are just fine, and look forward to putting all
    the pieces of the puzzle together , whether viewed or read, later. Whatever
    gratification is sought.

  • Berelyn,

    LMAO , You’re not alone ! I think it’s creative , how many fans come up with monikers
    for certain people or events. I usually state them as described, so I never forget
    what the actual events entailed.

  • WildSeed: Totally agree, with respects to GRRM not spoiling anything. He’s excited about
    the new season, as he should be, and pushing the agenda.

    While most here comply with tagging our spoilers, to respect those not up
    to speed with the books or episodes, there remains a degree of responsibility
    for the ” Unsullied ” that insist on previewing unaired or unread insights.

    News and events are desired by all, however information gleaned online,
    can be tainted with insights deemed too sensitive for some to realise too soon.
    It comes down to individual choice, accountable to one’s own actions to proceed
    at risk. It’s possible to remain a devoted fan and holding on to the ecstasy from
    viewing the episode outright .Disclaimer or no, some unsullied don’t wish to
    ” spoil ” the experience. The rest are just fine, and look forward to putting all
    the pieces of the puzzle together , whether viewed or read, later. Whatever
    gratification is sought.

    Seconded! I bought the books after season 1 and didn’t visit a single fan site for the books or the show until I finished. I didn’t get spoiled about a single thing. Once TWOW is published I will probably avoid most sites until I’m done reading it.

  • It sounds like the wedding will be a big episode long event with lots of drunken Lannister bickering. Hopefully another Cersei and Loras scene will occur. Maybe the first episode will catch us up on the non King’s Landing people and the second episode will be devoted entirely to the wedding.

    This will be so much cooler than the William and Kate snooze fest.

    Also, Sophie Turner looks pretty in purple doesn’t she? ;)

  • Nick_Scryer,

    House Mormont,

    I agree with you both! Ian Gelder can be seen here, suited up in his House Lannister armor, in the middle of the group.

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-liUeoqe8-dI/Ugcz5-6HIHI/AAAAAAAADWI/phtiZ71c9xQ/s1600/BQ-7iD2CMAEO8Kt.jpg

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-x5CwRzub6Mk/Ugcz6HXBTaI/AAAAAAAADWQ/wcVA57g-afg/s1600/PZLDV8y.jpg

    I hope this wasn’t just for the sake of having Kevan at the wedding as an extra, and that he is reintroduced as a character. He was only in one episode of S2, and honestly I think most viewers won’t recognize/remember him. He needs to be reestablished!

  • Kyle,

    he’s in Season 1 aswell when Tyrion comes to the Lannister Camp with Shagga et al, but other than a brief “uncle, father” from Tyrion he isn’t introduced to the audience properly, so hopefully he acts as Tyrion’s consultant for his trial, although I’d heard that role might be taken by Jaime

  • I run my university’s Society of Ice and Fire, and most of the people on there are just TV show watchers so I got rid of the wine bit in my update on the facebook page as I thought it too spoilery

  • Hmm, I don’t know if it’s just me but what I think are meant to be spoiler tags are merely showing up as bold. So in other words the spoilers are being shouted out in this thread. I’m using Google Chrome btw, on a PC. I’m going to add some nonsense below with spoiler and bold tags and see what happens:

    bold
    spoiler

    Well tags work in preview lets see in post.

  • WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    I’ve only read the series once, and began after the first season.
    I chose to not take part in
    any book discussions or GoT fan sites, but that’s my preference. It’s perfectly normal to be curious, but that individual would or should be aware of their
    tolerance for unread or non-viewed material. Self accountability is the way to go.

    I’m also appreciative of WiC and Westeros, to band together fans within their
    respected sites. By distinguishing Episode Recaps and other insights, with reference
    to the site visitor’s fan background ( ie. those that read up to a certain point and
    those in an unsullied category ). The addition of ” Oz of Thrones ” commentary
    and discussion format, was a nice addition too, a welcome for eager newbies
    to give expression. Still, even with these categories, some feel the need to satisfy
    their curiosity for projected insights. No one knows better than you, were the cutoff
    should be. Just don’t hold other people responsible for the choices you made on your
    own.

    That said, I hope WiC reconsider a Forum of sorts, in the future. Could be too much
    work to monitor, though.

  • mariamb,

    As far as GRRM’s comment, it is a bit “spoilery”. However, the Unsullied that I know will not be surprised by the events of the PW. I agree with the poster upthread that said that the events that follow the PW – Tyrion blamed, Sansa escapes, deaths of Oberyn, Tywin and Shae deaths – will prove more shocking

    I also think it’s spoilery BUT I think that it is on purpose. GRRM is at once pandering to the readers while also enticing the Unsullied, particularly the ones who were so upset by the Red Wedding that they vowed never to watch the show again. If those people correctly surmise that a Lannister (Joff) is going to bite the dust then many of those people might reconsider watching it again. It gives them some hope of justice.

  • I wonder what the tag-line will be this season.. Season 1’s was “Winter is Coming”, 2’s was “War is Coming” and 3’s… 3 didn’t really have one, though I remember there was something in the 20 minute recap involving a storm…

    In any case, I think “Vengeance is Coming” or something else that shows the revenge theme of the season will be the best way to go considering upcoming events and characters (Stoneheart, Oberyn, Tyrion and others) that are revenge-centric. Especially after the Red Wedding, it could reel in viewers who are on the fence on whether to return to the show with season 4.

  • Jentario:
    I wonder what the tag-line will be this season.. Season 1′s was “Winter is Coming”, 2′s was “War is Coming” and 3′s… 3 didn’t really have one, though I remember there was something in the 20 minute recap involving a storm…

    How about “Wherever Whores Go…”?

  • Ms. D. Ranged in AZ:
    mariamb,

    I also think it’s spoilery BUT I think that it is on purpose.GRRM is at once pandering to the readers while also enticing the Unsullied, particularly the ones who were so upset by the Red Wedding that they vowed never to watch the show again. If those people correctly surmise that a Lannister (Joff) is going to bite the dust then many of those people might reconsider watching it again. It gives them some hope of justice.

    I hope they make Balon’s death suspenseful as well (if it is even done this season). Also, more to your point, the staggering number of major deaths (especially the buildup and gruesome demise of the RV) will keep everyone on edge….Sullied and Unsullied alike. The RW was just an appetizer for what this next season holds in store for all. By next June, the twitterverse and talk shows will be non-stop regarding various turn of events in Westeros and Essos. Hold on!

  • Rygar:
    Ah come on. Where are all the 30+ year olds that know what I’m talking about.

    I gotcha, Boss.
    …never gonna happen…8)

  • Off topic but there is an amazing article on ex Dr Feelgood guitarist and our own Ilyn Pane Wilko Johnson in the current issue of MOJO magazine.

  • I still think it is a mistake for it to be episode 2. The premiere will have to be almost completely in King’s Landing. If this causes them to have Oberyn vs Gregor earlier than episode 8, and Tyrion’s escape earlier than the finale, I will be rather disappointed. But if it is in episode 2, this is the way that I could see King’s Landing play out:
    episode 1: introductions, Oberyn arrives, wedding preparations
    2: the wedding
    3: the immediate fallout and the search for Sansa
    4: small council meeting to assess the situation. I suspect that this episode will be mostly at Castle Black with the battle
    5: trial part 1
    6: trial part 2
    7: preparing for the trial by combat
    8: Oberyn vs Gregor
    9: no King’s Landing (the episode will be entirely, or almost entirely, at Castle Black)
    10: Tyrion’s escape

    The other problem with it being in episode 2: it means we only get two episode with Jack Gleeson ;__;

  • Skipjack,
    Go to the top of the comment section and play around with these buttons:

    “Yes, show me the spoilers!
    No thanks. Hide the spoilers.”

    If you click ‘hide the spoilers’ then they are completely blacked out. The feature is there to make it so that sullied don’t have to click on spoiler tagged text to read it (although I personally would prefer it if spoilers were just blacked out for everyone, as it allows sullied to quickly confirm that they have spoiler coded their posts correctly).

    @Winter Is Coming: on the topic of site redesigns, what you could make the ‘yes, show me the spoilers!’ button do, instead of making spoilers appear bold, is make spoilers appear as white text on a black background. That way sullied can see the difference between something that has been bolded and something that has been hidden without having to click on it.

  • Ser Tahu:
    I still think it is a mistake for it to be episode 2. The premiere will have to be almost completely in King’s Landing. If this causes them to have Oberyn vs Gregor earlier than episode 8, and Tyrion’s escape earlier than the finale, I will be rather disappointed. But if it is in episode 2, this is the way that I could see King’s Landing play out:
    episode 1: introductions, Oberyn arrives, wedding preparations
    2: the wedding
    3: the immediate fallout and the search for Sansa
    4: small council meeting to assess the situation. I suspect that this episode will be mostly at Castle Black with the battle
    5: trial part 1
    6: trial part 2
    7: preparing for the trial by combat
    8: Oberyn vs Gregor
    9: no King’s Landing (the episode will be entirely, or almost entirely, at Castle Black)
    10: Tyrion’s escape

    The other problem with it being in episode 2: it means we only get two episode with Jack Gleeson ;__;

    What happens in episode 7? “Preparing for trial by combat” sounds like a lot of filler material, as does stretching the trial across 2 episodes. If they are going to delve into book 4 and 5 material, the bulk of book 3 should be over by episode 8.
    Purple Wedding for episode 2 is perfect in my mind. The finale can be Tommen’s and Margery’s wedding.

  • Regarding the Season 4 catch phrase or headline, this video is using “A Hero Will Rise”.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsrY52mr7O4

    Saw this about a month ago. It appears legit, so I expected it to be mentioned here. It’s got great editing and background music.

    It’s a recap of the previous seasons with one addition: a mysterious figure sitting bloody and intimidating on the Iron Throne.

    Sorry if I screwed up the link. It’s easy to find on youtube.

  • Dornishman,
    By ‘preparing for the trial by combat’ I mean all of the stuff with Tyrion trying to find a champion. If episode 7 has Mance’s initial assault on the Wall, though, then that stuff could happen in episode 8 with King’s Landing being absent from episode 7.

    And I am yet to see any evidence that they are planning on getting deep into the Feast/Dance material in season 4 (aside from Brienne and Bran, and possibly Theon, although it seems likely that his season will consist of more invented material). Early character introductions != going into that material early.

  • Ser Tahu,

    I agree. It would have been much better at episode 3 or 4, especially since IMO it should have been in the season 3 finale. If they’re going to not put it in the season 3 finale they should have at least made proper use of it and stretched that arc across 3 or four episodes. Now it will all be a rush.

  • Jentario: It would have been much better at episode 3 or 4, especially since IMO it should have been in the season 3 finale.

    How does that make any sense?

  • My biggest concern with season 4 (regarding book-show discrepancies) is Jaimie’s presence during the wedding, and his reaction to the events on it. I think it may have been a mistake to have him back in KL so soon. I really wonder how that will play out.

  • @Langas, I guess there is a chance that Jaime will be at the wedding but not actually there when Joff bites it. If the scene with Brienne at the King’s and Queen’s table is true, I can see her asking for something stupid, like giving/releasing Sansa to her, which surely will have Joff fall of his chair laughing and demanding his kingsguard to arrest her. So Jaime could be bringing her to her tower cell, while shit hits the fan.

  • Langas,
    In my opinion this problem has been greatly exaggerated. It is a change from the books, but that is all it is, I don’t see it causing any major problems in the long term and there are easy workarounds for it.

    My biggest concerns with season 4 at the moment are:
    1) the lack of any Greyjoy uncles being cast. To delay Balon’s death is the weaken the leech scene from season 3, and to not show it is a missed opportunity. I don’t expect, nor do I want, the Kingsmoot to take place in season 4, but they really should use the opportunity to introduce at least Euron and possibly Aeron, if not all three. In my head I just have this great image of Euron bursting into the throne room at Pyke flanked by his men, crowning himself and drowning those who oppose him. However, it isn’t to late for them to be cast. I remember that Mance wasn’t cast until extremely late last year.

    2) the lack of Brown Ben Plumm, because Brown Ben Plumm. I am slowly resigning myself to the fact that he will likely be combined with the Tattered Prince, which is a shame, because they were the two most interesting sellsword captains.

    And above all, 3) the lack of Rickon. I feel that this is a huge missed opportunity on the part of D&D. They could have had Ramsay hunt them, causing them to realise that the North isn’t even safe for Rickon at the end of the season. Then they could be absent from season 5 with their new destination/location unknown until the Wyman/Davos Skagos reveal. It also would have given Theon something to do in season 4 (aside from the situation with YarAsha), stopping him from getting too far ahead. Unless they rush some similar situation at the start of the season 5, they will just have to have a guy show up and say “hey, remember Rickon who you haven’t seen in 2 years? He’s over on this island you’ve never heard of despite the fact that the last time you saw him he was heading for the Last Hearth.”, and it will feel extremely forced and sudden.

  • Set Tahu,
    Not trying to be a dick but u sound foolish. If the pw happens in ep 2 and all thy other stuff happens sooner u will be “rather dissapointed”. Really can’t stand those attitudes. You’ll be dissapointed when all these amazing things happen on screen you read years ago. They have done a fantastic job each season I think its time us readers and viewers just sit back relax and enjoy the ride and be happy the material is being adapted at all.
    I for one think things happening earlier would be great considering we haven’t yet seen a major climatic moment earlier it would really catch people off gaurd just expecting the climax in episode 9 as usual
    Not to mention this second half of storm is the most dense material with tons of important things to cover. Beggars can’t be choosers

  • Ser Tahu,

    The problem with having Ramsay hunt Rickon is that their is no possible way he could have found Rickon. They’ve vanished for months and are hundreds of miles from the Dreadfort. Having Ramsay get anywhere near them would be a huge plothole.

  • Varamyr 4 skins,
    I’ve never fully agreed with the ‘sit back relax and enjoy the ride and be happy the material is being adapted at all’ attitude, there are some occasions where no adaption is better than a terrible one *cough* Dune *cough*.

    Although I probably didn’t phrase myself clearly, though. I would be disappointed with them rushing things because, as you said, there is a lot of material for them to cover. As a book reader I have supported every change they have made thus far (aside from Jon’s season 2 storyline). Some book readers have extremely strict requirements for the show, like it being word for word the same as the book. My only requirement is that they don’t rush it, to give the story the time that it deserves. I trust that D&D will manage the show brilliantly, I just don’t want them to rush it to the detriment of the story or to fit some arbitrary number of seasons.

    sunspear,
    Travel times haven’t really been something that has mattered to D&D:
    – Tywin and his entire army get from Harrenhal to King’s Landing in 2 days
    – Catelyn, Theon and Petyr almost teleport in season 2
    – the teleporting Raven from Castle Black to Dragonstone in the season 3 finale

    As long as travel times aren’t pointed out, not many people notice the inconsistencies.

  • Ser Tahu,

    How is that “rushing things” exactly?

    The TV viewers know that the marriage is supposed to happen since S02E10. It has been teased several times throughout S3.

    And that event is what triggers the KL’s plot.. they need to make it happen early in the season.

  • Ser Tahu,

    I have many of the same concerns and think Jaime arriving early is one of the biggest misteps so far (and that’s saying a lot lol).

    BTW isn’t the “purple” wedding monicker from the color of wine w/ certain ingredients added. search “strangler” on a wiki of ice and fire. People are talking about imperial colors… wtf?

  • boze, here’s the short list of what needs to happen before the wedding:
    -everyone reacting to the RW
    -jaime and tywin
    -jaime and cersei
    -jaime and tyrion
    -jaime and brienne (im still hoping for “i only rescue maidens” line…)
    -oberyn arrival
    -mace arrival
    -some additional scenes for both of them, maybe a brothel scene with oberyn and tyrell family council
    -martell/tyrell tension
    -brienne/loras tension
    -tyrion/shae scene before his imprisonment
    -at least 2 sansa/dontos establishing scenes
    -and thats not everything.

    + ~30 minutes – the wedding itself

    You can’t physically put all of this in 2 episodes. So something will definitely be cut. And thats what will make the wedding feel rushed.

  • Langas:
    My biggest concern with season 4 (regarding book-show discrepancies) is Jaimie’s presence during the wedding, and his reaction to the events on it. I think it may have been a mistake to have him back in KL so soon. I really wonder how that will play out.

    I must admit that I was (and still am) thrown a bit askew by seeing Jaime return so soon. Even though I am cautiously optimistic for a surprising effect that it will have at the PW, nothing was more awkward and creatively brilliant than when Jaime returned to KL in the book and he and Cersei immediately “reconnected” next to Joff’s corpse. It demonstrated just how bizarre their relationship was. I suppose that could still happen though, although probably not to the same effect. Will the showrunners go that far?

  • loki,

    -everyone reacting to the RW
    See S3E10.

    -jaime and tywin
    Can be done in 3 minutes (see Tyrion vs Tywin in S3)

    -jaime and cersei
    Can be done in 2-3 minutes.

    -jaime and tyrion
    Doesn’t need a whole lot of time. They’ll have plenty of time to talk to each other after the PW.

    -jaime and brienne (im still hoping for “i only rescue maidens” line…)
    Why do we “need” this? They can talk at the wedding, that’s not a problem.

    -oberyn arrival
    Probably a “big” scene, yep. 5-10 minutes, I guess.. depending on how they’ll handle it.

    -mace arrival
    Doesn’t need to be shown. You can establish his character at the wedding, and then throughout the trial.

    -some additional scenes for both of them, maybe a brothel scene with oberyn and tyrell family council
    Not necessary. And those scenes can happen after the PW.

    -martell/tyrell tension
    You can establish that quickly without lenghty explanation with good writing/acting/directing
    .

    -brienne/loras tension
    Doesn’t need to happen since he doesn’t blame her for Renly’s death in the show.

    -tyrion/shae scene before his imprisonment
    We’ve had plenty of that already. Plus, there’s a chance that they’ll play the “jealous woman” angle to justify her betrayal in the show.. so I don’t think they need to get their own scene before the PW.

    -at least 2 sansa/dontos establishing scenes
    Why 2?

  • Hodor’s Bastard,

    Yes that reunion was a huge missed opportunity, N2M a kingsguard Loras Tyrell confronting Brienne of Tarth (who he thinks murdered his true love).
    What really blows my mind is what they did do… rush him home just for 5 seconds of a stare between him and Cersei. Why couldn’t they wait and have some interesting scenes between Jaime/Brienne/Qyburn/Steelshanks on the way?

  • Ser Tahu,

    It isn’t the time lag thats the problem. It’s the fact that their is no possible logical way Ramsay could find Rickon at this point.

    loki,

    Everyone already reacted to the Red Wedding. So that parts out. And a lot of the tension scenes can happen as the wedding is going on, since it won’t take anywhere near those 30 minutes to show M&J saying their vows.

  • sunspear:
    Everyone already reacted to the Red Wedding.

    Brienne. Tyrells. Jaime. Sansa. (staring in the window for 3 seconds doesn’t really count)

  • Ser Endrew Tarth:
    Hodor’s Bastard,

    Yes that reunion was a huge missed opportunity, N2M a kingsguard Loras Tyrell confronting Brienne of Tarth (who he thinks murdered his true love).
    What really blows my mind is what they did do…rush him home just for 5 seconds of a stare between him and Cersei.Why couldn’t they wait and have some interesting scenes between Jaime/Brienne/Qyburn/Steelshanks on the way?

    Yes, Ser…the Loras – Brienne issue should escalate and prove interesting (although several others have previously pointed out to me that in S2 Loras mentioned to Margaery that he didn’t think Brienne did it….which I hated…because there was no reason given). I always wanted L & B to have a confrontation…(possibly deadly for Loras)…but that’s just me (I like to beat dead horses).

    As stated before…I am cautiously optimistic that this J/B-in-KL rewrite will prove interesting. B’s storyline could actually be improved/streamlined from the books.

  • loki:
    You can’t physically put all of this in 2 episodes. So something will definitely be cut. And thats what will make the wedding feel rushed.

    All that wedding prep, the cermony (and aftermath,) and the Wall, the Riverlands, the Dreadfort, Yara’s journey, Slaver’s Bay, Stannis’s journey north, the Vale, Balon….S4 is going to be a fuckin’ logistical nightmare….it’s almost a given that certain things will be rushed.

  • Ser Endrew Tarth,

    I don’t think Jaime arriving home early is necessarily a mis-step. I think we should wait and see how they handle that next season before we judge. It certainly could be problematic but they could find a way around it.

    For example; Jaime finds out that Sansa has been married to Tyrion which complicates things. He tells Brienne then they try to figure out a plan of how to get her out of KL. They plan to get her out after the royal wedding (which is obviously too late as she’ll already be gone.) Then Jaime and Brienne will be like”Fuck! What are we gonna do now?!” (Or words to that effect.)

  • Hounded,

    How could that be problematic?

    Jaime swore to give Catelyn her daughter back. Now that Catelyn is dead, how could he keep that promise? And why would he try to get Sansa out of KL? Where would he send her? She hasn’t got any family left.. and even her home has been destroyed.

    I don’t see any problem with Jaime arriving earlier in KL.

  • Hodor’s Bastard: All that wedding prep, the cermony (and aftermath,) and the Wall, the Riverlands, the Dreadfort, Yara’s journey, Slaver’s Bay, Stannis’s journey north, the Vale, Balon….S4 is going to be a fuckin’ logistical nightmare….it’s almost a given that certain things will be rushed.

    Stephen King speaking about the logistical nightmare of adapting The Dark Tower said ” at least its not as bad as what Gurm has done to ASOIAF. ”
    Well not really but this show needs changes and cuts to make it even slightly watchable from book 4 on. Better writing would help too. ;)

  • Rygar: Stephen King speaking about the logistical nightmare of adapting The Dark Tower said ” at least its not as bad as what Gurm has done to ASOIAF. ”
    Well not really but this show needs changes and cuts to make it even slightly watchable from book 4 on.Better writing would help too.;)

    I’m holding fast to my “cautiously optimistic” credo. I think that books 4 & 5, when meshed/spliced together, will be great fun….but yes, the showrunners will be challenged more than in books 1-3 as far as filming and dramatic deviation goes.

    Regarding SK…although it is encouraging to hear that TDT is being considered, rarely does an adaptation of SK’s work go anywhere but down (Shawshank & Green Mile, both by F Darabont, being some of the exceptions…why couldn’t he do “It”?). Could be painful to watch (like Under the Dome was this summer).

    “Gurm”…I rather like that reference. :)

  • loki,

    With all you said you still forgot all the Sansa/Dontos stuff, and there’s likely a lot of setup to be had there. Also, potential pre-wedding Sansa/Jaime/Brienne scenes. It just seems illogical to shove all of that into two episodes when you’ve got so many other storylines to follow as well. Should have been episode 3 or 4…

    You’re right. Things will be cut :/
    The first two episodes in King’s Landing will now feel too fast paced and the middle episodes too slow paced… Or maybe not. I’ll give ‘em the benefit of the doubt. We’ll see.

  • Plus we need to show Tyrion and Sansa’s unhappy marriage which was covered heavily in the books and they didn’t really do that in 3×10 and it would make sense to keep the scene where Tyrion sneaks away from Sansa to have sex with Shae in the dragon room, it’d be very HBO friendly, makes their relationship seem real again and it’s what she talks about in the trial not to mention that their dynamic is pretty important in the PW

    I really don’t see how the wedding can be in episode 2, especially as I thought d&d would want to exploit The Red Viper’s character like they did the Queen of Thorns, they make great television

  • Rygar: Stephen King speaking about the logistical nightmare of adapting The Dark Tower said ” at least its not as bad as what Gurm has done to ASOIAF. ”
    Well not really but this show needs changes and cuts to make it even slightly watchable from book 4 on.Better writing would help too.;)

    I like how you invented something and then said not really.

    What was the purpose of doing that?

  • GeekFurious: I predict it will end season 4.

    How predictable.
    It would have more of an effect if S4 began with Nymeria and the BwB…and the river…an awesome resurrection event (only referenced passively in the books) would set the tone for a helter-skelter season…

    …but, alas, there is already so much shit that will go down in S4….we can only hope….

  • Hodor’s Bastard…an awesome resurrection event (only referenced passively in the books) would set the tone for a helter-skelter season…

    You know….if timed right, they could place that event on Easter Sunday….April 20, 2014…

    …mmmuuuuuuwwwaaaahhhh!

  • Long-time lurker here, first time poster. Love the site guys!

    Fitting that the “Purple Wedding” should come up since I choked on some food in a restaurant today. I nearly did a Joffrey, and I was certainly going purple in the face.

  • Hodor’s Bastard: You know….if timed right, they could place that event on Easter Sunday….April 20, 2014…

    …mmmuuuuuuwwwaaaahhhh!

    This date bears no significance to the Children of the Forest.

    COTF spokesperson, WildSeed ( also Leaf’s cousin )

  • Hodor’s Bastard,

    Good point about the juxtaposition of Jaime and Cersei. I did not not recollect
    your sharing a question about ser Jaime’s early return, when the recap here was
    written. I wrote a lengthy comment about that, and sequential events , specifically.

    Here’s looking to the tweaks and perks of an adaptive book series ! Hopefully the
    best is yet to come *>*

  • sunspear,
    My theory (which has been proved wrong by the lack of Rickon in season 4) was that Rickon and Osha would get to the Last Hearth, but the Umbers would betray them and alert the Dreadfort, giving Ramsay the starting point for his hunt.

  • WildSeed:
    Hodor’s Bastard,

    Good point about the juxtaposition of Jaime and Cersei. I did not not recollect
    your sharing a question about ser Jaime’s early return, when the recap here was
    written. I wrote a lengthy comment about that, and sequential events , specifically.

    Here’s looking to the tweaks and perks of an adaptive book series ! Hopefully the
    best is yet to come*>*

    Oh, it was roundly and soundly discussed a few months back, with many sharing the view that the space-time continuum had been shattered by the early appearance of J&B in KL, no CH, no LS and surfergirl Dany. Everything about S3’s final episode has been hashed and rehashed, praised and vilified, embraced and spat upon by posters in prior threads…and folks will continue to hash and rehash in future threads until S4 escalates the chaos, sending folks scrambling to find their ladders…

  • boze,

    Perhaps not. But it resembles him, and I don’t know who else it could possibly be, since he’s dressed in the Lannister armor. I can’t remember on what website I originally saw those images, but the site stated it was Ian Gelder. I suppose the site could’ve been wrong, though.

    House Mormont,

    Yes, you’re right – I just meant the last time we saw him was in S2, and he was only in that one episode that season, so he’s largely been forgotten. Which is a real shame.

    I do hope that’s Ian Gelder in the photos.

  • Hodor’s Bastard,

    Yeah, you’re right about that. Just the thought of it reminds me of a long forgotten
    migraine headache. I stand by my usual optimism, that the potential to make
    certain onscreen stories could improve or make interesting television……. at
    long as the effort pays off in future episodes. No matter how a premise is juggled,
    there has to be continuity and a reasonable flow of events.

    There’s no way of knowing for sure, other than rumours speaking against ,but
    I really want Jaime’s aunt, married to a Frey and he to meet.

  • I’m also hoping they bring Ian Gelder back. I think Kevan is an excellent character in the books, someone who comes into is own after Twyin’s Death & I believe without the right exposition he’ll seem an odd choice to many casual viewers who may not realise they are brothers.

    I think his reaction to the death of his two sons at the hands of the Karstarks should also be explored a little as well, but the upcoming wedding will also be a good opportunity for him to literally be supporting Lancel, who as book readers will know has become frail as a man four times his age since Blackwater. He’s another character who needs to be re-introduced now so that later events (Warrior’s Sons, Jaime’s confrontation etc.)

    Speaking of weddings, has anyone else come across these photos? (<a href="http://imgur.com/a/2K75U#r1CY1oV&quot; rel="nofollow") (sorry if I screwed the link up too) I love how in the one pic they have of Jack Gleeson he’s clutching his gut in distress. I hope those aren’t the symptoms of his poison, it would look pretty rubbish if the Mad Boy King died of an upset tummy.

  • GeekFurious: I like how you invented something and then said not really.

    What was the purpose of doing that?

    As a way of explaining how ‘hodgepodged’ ASOIAF is now. If you’ve read the monstrosity that is the Dark Tower then you’d understand. Because THAT series is all over the place.

  • WildSeed:
    Hodor’s Bastard,

    There’s no way of knowing for sure,other than rumours speaking against ,but
    I really want Jaime’s aunt, married to a Frey and he to meet.

    Of all the upcoming scenes and events, that is what you “really want”? Wow. You might have to wait until S5 for Genna!

    “…but Tyrion is Tywin’s son, not you.”

  • loki,

    Yeah, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say you’re going to be disappointed at how the beginning of Season 4 turns out. Almost every point of yours either has happened or will happen at the wedding, except introducing characters. Not sure why the conversations you point out need to happen before the wedding. It’s a perfect way to save time and also make the wedding pre-Joff choking more interesting.

  • Hodor’s Bastard,

    Nope, I’m eager for more and expressed in previous threads . This one came to mind,
    about Jaime, when considering the accelerated storyline and his journey out
    of King’s Landing
    . Control that appetite, mate ( :

  • Veltigar: I agree. But what I’m most curious about: how will they make that giant Lion Head not look cheasy?

    I’m imagining Lady Olenna making fun of the Lion of Lannister. She already joked about how many times ” The Rains of Castamere” is played at court.

  • Winter Is Coming:
    Abyss,

    It is still a goal of mine, but I’m not sure when it will be done. Real life has been hectic for me recently, having just switched jobs and had a baby. Hopefully I can get it live before the start of the new season!

    Congrats!

  • WildSeed: Here’s looking to the tweaks and perks of an adaptive book series ! Hopefully the best is yet to come *>*

    Speaking to your point about an “adaptive book series” (as opposed to a true-to-the books series), is this quote from the Outlander showrunner:

    “We’re at pains to really follow the [Outlander] books,” he [Ron Moore] says… “One of the great things Starz said to us early on was, ‘We love the books, we think they are great, so let’s make the [show] for the people who love the books. Let’s make it for the fans of the books first and trust that anyone who doesn’t know the material will get swept along in the story like everyone else does.’ Nobody ever says that,” Moore laughs. “Typically studios and networks just say, ‘Yeah, we don’t really care about the book. We bought it for the cover or whatever…’ and then dispense with it very early on [in the process]. This was the rare time when everybody said, this is great material and we like the story and these characters, so let’s try to get as close to the books as possible in the show, and that’s what we are doing.” ~ Ron Moore, http://www.blastr.com/2013-7-23/we-caught-ron-moore-comic-con-talk-helix-and-outlander

    If Moore is telling the truth, it will be interesting to see if a close-to-original production finds non-book fans enough to satisfy Starz. (Outlander is a yet-unfinished series of eight books—thus far—each book a GOT-size behemoth, and twenty years in the writing, so in many ways comparable to ASOIAF.)