First look at the Red Viper and Ellaria
By Ours is the Fury on in Filming.

Ellaria and OberynMonths after location filming completed in Croatia, pictures have surfaced giving viewers a definitive look at season 4′s most anticipated new characters. A gallery of photos turned up yesterday of the filming at the Hotel Belvedere in Dubrovnik, Croatia that took place in September. Among the images are the first confirmed photos of Pedro Pascal as Prince Oberyn, the Red Viper of Dorne, and Indira Varma as Ellaria Sand, the prince’s companion. We’re also provided with a closer view of the show’s version of the sun-and spear sigil of House Martell, first spotted a few months back in distant photos.

RVEllaria

Viper and Ellaria

We’ve tucked one more photo beneath the cut as it might be considered a spoiler!

In this photo, from behind we see Hafthor Bjornsson as Gregor Clegane and Pedro Pascal as Oberyn Martell.

Red Viper and Gregor

Ours is the Fury: I like that they’re using the house colors consistently, and the style works. The lighter type of armor suits Oberyn’s speedy style, I think. The photos aren’t close enough to see the real details, so I’m looking forward to that. What do you think of the look they’ve chosen for Oberyn and Ellaria so far?


203 Comments

  1. Grijnwaald
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    Merry Hodor

  2. TastesLikeTheSea
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    Not bad, at least they look related.

  3. jentario
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    The spear can be seen at the bottom right of pic 18.
    http://i.imgur.com/1VSTwDf.jpg

  4. Hoyti_Von_Totiy
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    Praise the seven in these holiday times so they may bring us more pictures :)

  5. Ours is the Fury
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    TastesLikeTheSea,

    Should Oberyn and Ellaria look related…?

  6. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    his light armor will make some people think he will easily be beaten by the mountain. Little do they know The mountain can just smash your head in with his bare hands.

  7. Arthur
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    The armor is perfect for The Red Viper.

    This will be the classic Rogue vs. Tank duel complete with poison, quick sidesteps and backstabs while Gregor is all power but slow and bulky.

    This will be one of the best duels ever!

  8. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Hoyti_Von_Totiy,

    Everyone knows the seven are the only gods who don’t do anything.

  9. Hoyti_Von_Totiy
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    haltwhogoesthere,

    Sir Gregor has the sword thats bigger than Cersei and he weilds it with one hand, so that “armor” RV is wering is good for nothing if anything its just slowing him down.
    He should fight in just cloth.

  10. Arthur
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    jentario,

    Nice, the spear looks good too!

    Hah, never complimented a spear before…

  11. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    Gregor and Oberyn look suitably tall, hopefully they’ve got the moves to match their personalities though. It’s looking less likely that The Mountain will have a helm, it was fine in the Northern Irish weather when the tourney was filmed but this is a whole other matter. Might be better for the choreography, but not for any voice-dubbing.

  12. Ours is the Fury
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    Everyone, please tag your spoilers!

  13. Ashara D
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    Thanks again, OitF! Happy Holidays!

    DORNE!!

  14. M
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    I’m so excited for this and I don’t even know why. I’m not a huge Martell fan but something about Pedro Pascal…hay baby. Haaaaay.

  15. KG
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    I have no complaint with either of the castings. They look great, and – since they were cast on this show – I assume their acting is quite good, too.

  16. Lord Of The Waters
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    Happy Christmas indeed! The Viper’s armour looks perfect and its great to see the Mountain back in his season 1 attire. Bring it on!

  17. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    Hoyti_Von_Totiy: Sir Gregor has the sword thats bigger than Cersei and he weilds it with one hand, so that “armor” RV is wering is good for nothing if anything its just slowing him down.
    He should fight in just cloth.

    The same was true of Bronn when he faced Ser Vardis, but ultimately his light get-up saved his skin from the heavily-armoured knight. This will be just like that, but to the power of Fucking Yeah

    EDIT: Ultimately, he is representing the prowess of his house, but he eschews flashy extras like sun-shaped roundels on his costume because those are just useless bulk. He’s going to look as he likes and make a big impression, and ultimately, he may’ve never intended to come out of that duel unscathed. He could’ve left the Mountain in the dust but he wanted to be a martyr to send Dorne into rebellion against the crown.

  18. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    Hoyti_Von_Totiy,

    That’s my point. Since his armor is so light, people will be expecting him to lose because of that. Not because his head gets smashed in by the guy’s bare hands.

  19. Seven Hells Bells
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    Holy moly am I excited to see the duel

  20. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    Thanks for the RV & Ellaria tease!

  21. jentario
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    haltwhogoesthere,

    The thing is that everyone expects him to lose but then he actually beats the shit out of the Mountain while shouting one of the awesomest lines in the series, and then his ego gets the best of him. It’s a classic GRRM moment- double surprise.

  22. Dolorous Ned
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    http://i.imgur.com/o4r1odv.jpg

    There’s Tyrion on the right side.

    Edit: Fixed wrong link.

  23. Hounded
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    Looks cool!
    I like how bright Ellaria’s dress is – very Dornish. It’s a shame Oberyn’s outfit isn’t brighter. The armor is pretty much perfect but it would have been cool if his sleeves were the same shade as Ellaria’s dress.

  24. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    Dolorous Ned,

    So far, we have seen Oberyn, Gregor, Ellaria, Tyrion, Jaime, someone who looks like Varys or Mace in pic 13 in the tent but probably just an extra. Who else do you think (or hope) will be there? I’m looking for unnamed squire with break-away arm and skull-cap, but is that REALLY going to be in their budget now?

  25. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    Dolorous Ned,

    Can’t see Tyrion but I do see what appears to be that Hoji Fortuna guy everyone thought might be Brown Ben Plumm, and another guy trying (and failing) to look as awesome as Jaime did in his season 1 outfit

  26. Dolorous Ned
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    haltwhogoesthere,

    Sorry, posted the wrong pic. Here’s the right one: http://i.imgur.com/o4r1odv.jpg

  27. Hounded
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    haltwhogoesthere,

    I’ve decided that that guy is Jaime’s childhood friend Marq Piper.

  28. Ours is the Fury
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    Yeah I see a Kingsguard in the same white coat as Jaime but I don’t see Jaime. Where are you seeing Nikolaj?

  29. House Mormont
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    The size (not height) difference between the two makes me excited, this is gonna be amazing

  30. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    (edited) lol nevermind, weren’t talking to me

  31. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    My mistake, I just saw on the zoom-in it wasn’t him. I just couldn’t believe anyone else would wear that coat, after that teaser with the White Sword Tower. Maybe he will be there anyway. If they don’t put him, Cersei and Tywin in the crowd then they’ll have seriously missed a trick there.

  32. Arthur
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    The Red Viper is Game of Thrones Darth Maul…

    Both awesome characters with supreme fighting skills but in the end their cockiness (which also is a good part of the reason why they are so liked) gets them killed.

  33. khalinthenorth
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    EEEEEEEELIAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

  34. The Dragon Demands
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    These images are exciting, but the detail isn’t close enough to really judge – I mean they take off the heavier bits of costuming when they’re not filming (helmets, etc.) and we can’t see well enough to determine what Ellaria’s makeup and jewelry is like.

    I’m happy because this is the first really, REALLY good look at the Martell heraldry we’ve got.

    We had a previous set photo but it was very blurry- now I can add this to the Game of Thrones Wiki’s Heraldry page.

  35. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    Arthur,

    … And The Mountain would be Vader, if he would just put on that damn pothelm again. At least they gave him the beard, it adds years to his face which his character truly needs. He’s got to be in his late 30s-40s to have done those things to Elia as a knight 19 years earlier (in show terms anyway).

  36. The Dragon Demands
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    Hoyti_Von_Totiy: er 24, 2013 at 11:25 am | Permalink
    haltwhogoesthere,

    Sir Gregor has the sword thats bigger than Cersei and he weilds it with one hand, so that “armor” RV is wering is good for nothing if anything its just slowing him down.
    He should fight in just cloth.

      

    Dornish armor is intentionally made of copper, not iron, so they don’t get tired out during hit and run attacks. Their actual spears are made of iron, of course. But like Bronn, they value speed. So the armor won’t slow him *that* much, yet may deflect a glancing blow.

  37. Arthur
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian Plastic,

    I think they will have their helms on during the duel… I’m guessing (and hoping) that they take their helms off as soon as the shooting ends between takes.

  38. Jentario
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian Plastic,

    If he gets a helmet it likely means his voice will get dubbed. Which makes him even more like Vader.

  39. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    Arthur,

    Probably, it must be like wearing a kettle on your face in the Mediterranean sun. If the specifications of the Mountain’s sword are the same as in season 1, then the blade is 64 inches (or 5ft 4′) in length, but that spear shaft alone’s got to be near-6 feet long, so they’re evenly matched (provided the Mountain doesn’t take a cartwheel-sized shield too, and there’s no sign of one anywhere).

  40. Arthur
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian Plastic,

    This scene will have me tearing with excitement…

    It’s a classic AD&D duel with a GRRM twist.

  41. Nezzer
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    Arthur:
    jentario,

    The Red Viper is Game of Thrones Darth Maul…


    Both awesome characters with supreme fighting skills but in the end their cockiness (which also is a good part of the reason why they are so liked) gets them killed.

    And both died way too early.

  42. Greenjones
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    http://postimg.org/image/ic0l1c5wz/full/

    There’s Hoji.

    BTW I hope all of those ships and boats in the background of these pics don’t cause too much trouble with their sound editing and the like.

  43. Pepi
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    Nezzer,

    I just hope they don’t make GoT The Animated Series in a couple of years, where it turns out RV is living in some secluded area, somwhat deranged, but otherwise alive and well.

  44. mariamb
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    Thanks for these photos! Have been waiting for sightings of RV and Ellaria.

    A very welcome little Christmas gift. Happy Holidays to all!

  45. Arthur
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Greenjones,

    Looking through these set pics is like an Easter Egg hunt for you huh?

    So many little gems to find here and there, you have a good eye!

  46. Ragman's Harbor
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Completly off-topic but do they have holidays in ASOIAF? Except their name day of course. Just curious, whatever. Merry christmas everyone.

  47. Nezzer
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Greenjones:
    http://postimg.org/image/ic0l1c5wz/full/

    There’s Hoji.

    BTW I hope all of those ships and boats in the background of these pics don’t cause too much trouble with their sound editing and the like.

    Are you really sure that’s him? Wasn’t it confirmed months ago that he was not actually cast?

  48. facelessarya
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    This is scene was so powerful and intense while reading, I have faith the actors will make it just as thrilling onscreen. I’m looking forward to seeing Pedro’s Viper. I was hesitant at first, I pictured Oberyn differently in my head, but seeing him in the armor restores any lost faith I had. I’m very much ready to see him in character.

    I think the armor fits Oberyn just right. It’s light and quick and has just enough finesse in the details, the way the shoulders upturn. It’s subtly styled. Very nice job in costuming, however, I’m not so certain of Ellaria’s costume…. But I’ll have to wait and see it close up. Her casting was perfect!

  49. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    Pepi,

    That’s pretty good, but also the way forward should we ever want a word-for-word, scene-for-scene adaptation of the books. Think of all the memorable events which would be made better or even allowed to appear at all with full animation. Yes it’s expensive, but nothing on this kind of financial scale.

    On an unrelated note, who do you think they’ll add to the opening credits. There were 28 actors in the titles last season and we’ve had to knock a few of them off obviously for tragic reasons. Gwendoline Christie’s long overdue her place, sigil and all, but as he’s a Season 4 Sean Bean or Mark Addy, Pedro will probably be in the end titles

  50. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    Ragman’s Harbor,

    I’ve wondered that too. I imagine as they don’t have Monday, Tuesday so-on mentioned anywhere in the books, the weeks have specific links to each of the Seven in the eyes of the Faith anyway. Martin’s probably left out holidays in case people start celebrating them in real life, or maybe it’s a coincidental absence. It’s a wise move really.

  51. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    This season is going to be insane. Crazy good.

  52. Udi
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    “Elia of Dorne you raped her, you killed her. You murdered her children”

  53. Greenjones
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian Plastic,

    If this Game of Thrones linkhttp://www.ciaranhinds.eu/movie.php?cle=mov101 from Ciarin Hinds’ filmography http://www.ciaranhinds.eu/works.php is accurate, then we should be seeing a lot of him, enough to warrant his being added to the main cast.

    I think they should add Pedro to the main cast for deceptive purposes, just like Viserys was in them.

    Other than them we may see Iwan Rheon, Barristan or Roose (can’t spell them long Irish last names of the top of my head, so I’ll go with character names for the last two blokes).

  54. FamilyDutyHonour
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    TastesLikeTheSea,

    They’re not really supposed to look related, though? She’s his partner/wife/thing, not his daughter! You’re thinking of the Sand Snakes.

  55. Ours is the Fury
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    Nezzer: you really sure that’s him? Wasn’t it confirmed months ago that he was not actually cast?

    No, it was confirmed that he wasn’t cast in a named, notable role. It was very likely that he was an extra, and he does seem to be hanging out in the section for extras/King’s Landing nobles in the pictures.

  56. Greenjones
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Arthur,

    Here’s this. http://postimg.org/image/l6b11a8jj/full/

    Nezzer,

    Well, http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1533685/?ref_=nv_sr_1 it sure looks like him. He was in Croatia at the time, wicnet seemed to settle on the idea that he was just an extra or featured extra.

  57. Nezzer
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury: No, it was confirmed that he wasn’t cast in a named, notable role. It was very likely that he was an extra, and he does seem to be hanging out in the section for extras/King’s Landing nobles in the pictures.

    Cool, but isn’t it strange to cast a professional actor to play an extra? I hope he is our Jalabhar Xho and has a speaking role.

  58. Uther Greenshirt
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    I want to see the VP in his court clothes too :) and what he rides up in! Pedro is a very good actor and i am curious how different their accents will be.

    What do you think of David Tennent as the kindly man? there has to be a role for DT! maybe Randel Tarly? Paul McGann?

  59. Sid
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    Is anyone else equally excited about the scene where Oberyn agrees to be Tyrion’s champion in trial by combat? I thought that was pretty well done in the book and hope we get some witty banter for the show.

  60. Ours is the Fury
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    Nezzer,

    It may be strange, but HBO officially denied his casting in any substantial role and they’ve never lied before when they deny a casting. Which left either no role, or something so small it was under their radar like an extra or a featured extra (people who have one or two lines in passing). And I agree that is Fortuna in the picture, so I’d say extra/featured extra. He was in Croatia then, so maybe it was simply a nice opportunity to be on a hit show and add it to his resume.

  61. Hounded
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    Uther Greenshirt,

    Randyll Tarly is Jonathan Banks

  62. Jentario
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    For an unexplainable reason, I just understood how (I think) episode 9 will play out:
    It begins with the siege at the Wall along with ice barrels, huge waves of Wildlings and maybe even some turtles and giants. At the process, Jon takes command of the top of the Wall while Slynt and Thorne defend the gate. Then a twist comes- Mole Town is set on fire, which Jon sees from the Wall, a horn is blown and the Watch rushes down to defend Castle Black from behind the Wall, leaving the gate exposed for Wildling attack from the North. After an intense battle, Styr and the south attackers are defeated, where Jon witnessed the death of Ygritte, which plays just like it did in the book. The twist is that Janos and Thorne see that loving affair come to an end- proof that Jon broke his vows and befriended Wildlings more than he cared to admit. They throw him in an ice cell (possibly for the second time that season) and give him the ultimatum. He must go on a suicide mission to kill Mance Rayder. In his grief, he agrees. There is a halt in the siege when Jon is sent out, the Wildlings take him to Mance where a confrontation occurs but there probably won’t be a horn (although, who knows). At this point, all hope for Jon and the Night’s Watch seems lost, but then… STANNIS! STANNIS! STANNIS! The battle beyond the Wall occurs with giants and horsed knights and everything- Stannis saves the day. Roll credits.

    I think it will look kind of like that :)

  63. Nick_Scryer
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    Awesome! This scene looks like its going to be amazing. Love the Martell costumes.
    Very exciting!

  64. Jon Blackfiyre
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Really excited for Oberyn. Martells are my favorite to read I think. Red Viper is deffinately in scene im looking forward to the most. Probably my favorite scene in the book. I knew what was going to happened before I read it but I was still on the edge of my seat and freaking out the whole read. Not even the red wedding did that for me. Cant Wait….Oh and
    Pepi,

    I hope they make an anime out of the series someday. I think it will be the closest kind of adaptation you can get.

  65. lol
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    Pepi,

    School of Thrones animated series on Adult Swim. Let’s make it happen everyone!

  66. Uther Greenshirt
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    Sid,

    yeah i can see him putting leg up on the table or bench with a cuppa in his hand

    Hounded,

    way way way too old to be Sam’s father!

  67. Feremuntrus
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    Love the costume design. Does anyone know if Pascal is going to don a wig? Having seen this picture prior, it looks much better than the shorter hair he has in these images.

    http://instagram.com/p/bk5z0DuUE9/#

  68. Greenjones
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    Jentario,

    That would be a really great way to handle it, particularly by having Ygritte’s death reveal to Thorne and Slynt that Jon broke his vows and then after a midpoint moment of tragedy lead up to more battle and an epic ending.

  69. Uther Greenshirt
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    lol,

    we could see Yi TI and would lays to the west of westorios the new world! :)

  70. NimbusWarrior
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    They look good. I want to see Gregor vs. the Red Viper
    So excited :)

  71. Jentario
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    Greenjones,

    I agree :)

  72. Arthur
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    Jon Blackfiyre,

    An anime of this series would be amazing!

    I mean a real high quality Japanese type anime series.

    GRRM should do some research and license a manga adaption then anime adaption to a quality anime company.

    Not the type of art in his currant comic book adaption, I mean eastern anime/manga type artistry.

  73. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    Feremuntrus,

    Considering how lax they’ve been with Lannister colouring this season and previously, it’s not likely. With or without a helmet it would be a hindrance to the performance in this particular scene.

  74. Uther Greenshirt
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    what about Javier Ángel Encinas Bardem playing Dorn Martell?

  75. Jentario
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    Uther Greenshirt,

    Nope. Maybe. Nope… Maybe…

  76. Arkash
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    What I really like in this picture :

    http://i.imgur.com/o4r1odv.jpg

    Is the trail for the camera ! Promising very interesting shots for the duel !

  77. Easteros bunny
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    Arthur,

    No just no.

  78. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    Ragman’s Harbor:
    Completly off-topic but do they have holidays in ASOIAF? Except their name day of course. Just curious, whatever. Merry christmas everyone.

    IIRC Joffrey’s wedding is on New Years. They also have maiden’s day in AFFC, but that seems like a quiet and religious holiday. It’s weird they don’t have much in the way of holidays because GRRM loves describing feasts so much.

  79. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    The orangey colors are great. They provide a nice contrast to the cool color palette in the Tyrell costumes.
    The sun and spear banner looks exactly as I imagined it. Love it.
    I’m still excited to see an official picture of Oberyn so we can see the detail of his armor. Hopefully HBO will give us a good one.

  80. Rygar
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Question is will us Rome fans finally get to see Niobi naked?

  81. Joshua Atreides
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    You should watch the film Kama Sutra. That is all.

  82. JoyToTheSnails
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    Got to admit, Oberyn looks pretty fucking badass in that armour. Can’t wait for this

  83. JoyToTheSnails
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Btw, what’s the consensus on when the Red Viper vs Gregor will be?

    The fight is a perfect way to end episode 8, with Tyrion being sent off to the cells. But that would leave a lengthy cliffhanger on Tyrion’s fate, and people may be less invested in the Battle of the Wall during episode 9 if they’re worrying about that the first time. Added to this, having a huge moment like Tywin’s death in the finale would be a break with formula. Having the RV vs Gregor in Episode 7, then Tywin’s death in Episode 8 would mean that Tyrion wouldn’t be languishing in jail for too long, and it would mean the finale could be dedicated to Tyrion going to Pentos.

  84. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    JoyToTheSnails,

    Episode 8 is probably the best guess. I can’t wait until episode titles get leaked. That’ll make it easier.

    ETA: We got ep. titles on 2-28 last year.

  85. Shannon
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    I love how they have an umbrella with an extra long pole for Hafthor Bjornsson

  86. Jentario
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    JoyToTheSnails,

    I would go with Episode 8 myself. Breaking the formula with a HUGE episode 10 is exactly what I vouch for. Also, if Pentos and Illirio were to return, I think we would know it (or at least suspect it) by now. Also, Tywin dying in episode 8 is overkill. Gold should only not be shat in the finale.

  87. TheBlackFlame
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    Legit question no trolololo, why does everyone one think the Red Viper is so awesome? I honestly don’t get it. I mean he’s no Sansa or anything but I always kinda just viewed him as a foil.

  88. Jentario
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

    TheBlackFlame,

    The Red Viper is the very definition of badass. From the moment he steps into the picture, he proves that by being straightforward- practically telling Tyrion that his he wants to kill Tywin. He continues to be awesome throughout the book with many a memorable quote until he pledges his help for Tyrion- the only one that gives two shits about him, the only one that doesn’t abandon him at the end. And then, he proceeds to take part in the awesome at duel in the series, practically defeating the Mountain himself- and being defeated in the end by his own ego. And who doesn’t think “Elia of Dorne! You raped her, you murdered her, you killed her children! Say her name!” is pure awesome?

    The question is not why we think he’s awesome, but rather why you don’t.

  89. Arkash
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    Legit question no trolololo, why does everyone one think the Red Viper is so awesome? I honestly don’t get it. I mean he’s no Sansa or anything but I always kinda just viewed him as a foil.

    Sansa is a great character !

    One of my favs, personally !

    Anyway, Oberyn is a fascinating one… he is very cultivated, interested in many things, polyvalent but also rash, flamboyant, cocky, displaying so much self-confidence it becomes quite hypnotic !
    And he’s got amazing dialogue lines !

    And I’m ready to bet the duel will conclude episode 8.

  90. TheBlackFlame
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    Jentario:
    TheBlackFlame,

    The Red Viper is the very definition of badass. From the moment he steps into the picture, he proves that by being straightforward- practically telling Tyrion that his he wants to kill Tywin. He continues to be awesome throughout the book with many a memorable quote until he pledges his help for Tyrion- the only one that gives two shits about him, the only one that doesn’t abandon him at the end. And then, he proceeds to take part in the awesome at duel in the series, practically defeating the Mountain himself- and being defeated in the end by his own ego. And who doesn’t think “Elia of Dorne! You raped her, you murdered her, you killed her children! Say her name!” is pure awesome?

    The question is not why we think he’s awesome, but rather why you don’t.

    “Elia of Dorne! You raped her, you murdered her, you killed her children! Say her name!” is pure awesome?

    So awesome in fact it got his skull pulverized. As far as the rest Alister Thorne has some cool one liners too is he the definition of badass? No he’s a foil for Jon Snow. Not for nothing what did all his “I’m killing Tywin” amount to in the end? Nothing. Why because he was a foil for Tyrion plain and simple.

    I also never said I didn’t like him. As I said I’m not skipping pages like I do with Sansa and sometimes Dany he’s not bad I just don’t see what the big deal is.

  91. Joshua Atreides
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    TheBlackFlame,

    It’s pretty difficult to describe why you like something to someone who doesn’t feel the same way. In the end your not really going to change your mind. Some people love the Godfather, some people hate it. I remember going to see The Fellowship of the Ring for the first time and one of our friends said he was bored out of his mind and couldn’t understand why we liked it so much. If you don’t feel it the first time (that is when expectations and emotional investment are brought to fore) your going to miss out on the love. It’s hard to quantify something like that.

  92. Rygar
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Atreides,

    Is it better than the book?

  93. Joshua Atreides
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    Emphatically no. But Sayid and Niobe removing the nail…

  94. JamesL
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    TheBlackFlame,

    “Elia of Dorne! You raped her, you murdered her, you killed her children! Say her name!” is pure awesome?

    No, it’s not and I honestly don’t even think we will be hearing that in the show and I wouldn’t even mind if we don’t. I know people would will complain if they leave that out but similar to the battle cries in the books certain things that sound fine on paper don’t translate well to film, it would probably sound really cheesy on the show if he is yelling that out during the duel. I’ve never understood the big deal over this part in the book, this scene will not blow people away like some seem to think, to most viewers it’s just two dudes fighting each other. The average viewer will not nerdgasm over a Red Viper-Mountain duel like book readers. The only reason the casual viewer will have any interest is because it is for Tyrion’s life.

  95. Arthur
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    TheBlackFlame,

    Well, to each his own. We all have our own taste and opinions and no ones is more valid then the others.

    The reason I like The Red Viper is because he serves as political blowback, so to speak, that the Lannisters had long in the coming.

    Up to now, the Lannisters seem to be owning shit and just leaving corpses in their wake. At this time in the book everything seems to be going their way (until all is changed from an internal conflict and a single crossbolt).

    But anyway, The Red Viper appears on the scene. Right away, this is what I pull from memory, he meets up with Tyrion and is offended they sent a dwarf to greet him, and The Red Viper isn’t scared to let that fact be known right to Tyrions face. Then, the RV continues to insult Tyrion directly by telling him a story of when his sister and he went to see “the mutant child” (Tyrion as an infant).

    Basically from the RV 1st appearance until his end he just talks down to the Lannisters, right in their face. I HATE the Lannisters so reading his words as he just buried them with insults at basically his every breath was awesome and it made me think to myself, “yeah! Fuck those inbreeds” lol

    But not only does the RV talk a lot of shit, he can back it up, and everyone knows it so they have no choice but to take the insults.

    It’s a shame his cockiness, which was really badass, was also his downfall.

    But that’s what GRRM does, he takes a characters strength and makes it their weakness and vice versa…

  96. DeadAntelope
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

    They best keep in the part where Gregor chops that boy’s forearm off before slicing his head off because he was screaming. Otherwise I’ll be terribly disappointed. And is it just me or weren’t they meant to fight in some kind of arena?

  97. Bannerless Bro
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    Greenjones,

    OMG
    Could he be Jalabhar Xho? I remember he was present at Sansa’s wedding. His feather cape is missing though.

  98. WompWomp
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    All I’ll say is I hope certain characters wear their damn helms in combat. It’s just silly not to.

  99. Bannerless Bro
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    Greenjones,

    In the filmography section he appears credited in Ep. 4.1
    Jalabhar was present when Oberyn arrived. So that tells us Oberyn is introduced in that episode…

  100. JamesL
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    DeadAntelope,

    Be prepared to be disappointed because it is unlikely they would show a gratuitous scene of a little boy being chopped apart and then beheaded.

  101. Ser Tahu
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    I was hoping for something more vibrant for Oberyn, and maybe more elaborate. As far as the armour is concerned this image is extremely close to my mental image of it:
    http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs51/f/2009/261/0/e/The_Red_Viper___Oberyn_Martell_by_higheternity.jpg

  102. Ser Tahu
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    Oh and I forgot to mention, their sigil is perfect :D. Although I would have preferred the spear to be pointing up, not down :P.

  103. UnbowdUnbentedUnhodor
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    Pepi:
    Nezzer,

    I just hope they don’t make GoT The Animated Series in a couple of years, where it turns out RV is living in some secluded area, somwhat deranged, but otherwise alive and well.

    I actually loved the clone wars! Looking forward to the rebels too.

  104. Faheem
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    I hope pedro has a wig because the short hair doesn’t fit well with the character of the red viper. also some links of pics to people who want to be spoiled — http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ZerqjuXCk0o/UkcBw8bjFwI/AAAAAAAA7Oc/LpM9mxRHncg/s1600/mountain3.jpg

    and

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-KorY6t6xJs4/UkcBvWHQ_KI/AAAAAAAA7OU/z1j1iwsKDUM/s1600/mountain2.jpg

    - this season looks like it will have the most action as of yet. also cant wait for the scene between tyrion and oberyn prior to the big one ;)

  105. House Mormont
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    I think the casual fans will become invested in the RV when he meets with Tyrion, and he reveals that Tyrion and Sansa are coming to Dorne to crown Myrcella and go to war with the Lannisters, because it’s a huge dun dun dun moment and it’s so dramatic it’s tantilising, especially if episode 7 ends with that

  106. Faheem
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    shouldn’t this scene be in like a great arena like the Colosseum thats how i alway imagined it.
    anyways suffice to say that there will be so much action in this season what with 2 battles at the wall, a secret seige that includes ygritte dying at castle black jon snow becoming commander stannis saving his ass and offering him to be legitimized plus dany takes another city and strong belwas has a duel and jorah is found to be a traitor and is banished before he has to conduct a seige for dany too. and not to forget the duel between the mountain and the viper and hopefully they’ll show a glimpse of dornes reaction and yara shipped to sea last season so clearly they’ll have to follow that up too and because they said they’ll show something from books 4 and 5 (same timeline) i have a feeling they’ll introduce either quentyn martell and young griff across the sea – as a brief glimpse of whats to come or victarion and euron greyjoy – either possibility should occur based on the info provided and most likey in episode ten as a whats to come next …. OMG tooo much man… so excited for this season!!

  107. House Mormont
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    Off topic :i hope in season 5 they have stannis raising the mountain clans to fight the ironborn and aegon and tyrion raising the golden company to take westeros opposite each other in the same episode, probably 5×04, it’d just be great

  108. Steve
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    Oh, you people.

    “OMG THE MOUNTAIN ISN’T WEARING HIS HELMET” … no shit. Let poor Hafthor enjoy a coke without having to use a straw and generally sweating his ass off while on a fucking shooting break (or, just as likely, before they even start shooting the damn scene), you clods.

    Also, just like Ser Tahu, I always imagined Oberyn looking like some lanky manga doofus.

    And the fight clearly took place in a COLOSSEUM. I read it in a book. It was called Gladiators or some such. Written by some guy named Kurt Russell or so.

    Everything is ruined. It just is.

  109. TheBlackFlame
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Atreides,

    Arthur,

    Thanks you two yours were the kind of answers I was hoping for. When I said I wasn’t just winding people up I meant it.

    JamesL,

    Actually I disagree on both counts.

    You and I may think its a little corny but we’re definitely in the minority so I doubt they’ll cut it. Its kind of his big moment and Gregor’s too really. Honestly I think they would be ripping both characters off by leaving it out. As for the guy who doesn’t think we’ll get the arm, (not gonna run down another quote) what makes you say that? They actually upped both the body count and the brutality at the RW what makes you think one screaming brat is gonna be just too much?

  110. Arthur
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    Faheem,

    I hope D&D choose to make the RV & Tyrion’s relationship the way it came across to me in the books… Meaning.

    IMO Oberyn didn’t even care about Tyrion, in fact, he kind of was disrespectful to him right in front of him… I hope D&D don’t make them buddy/buddy…

    Oberyn could give a shit less if Tyrion was killed because of the PW. The only reason The Red Viper volunteered to fight for Tyrion was because he saw it as a chance to get revenge for his sister by slaying The Mountain in front of everyone in the most humiliating fashion…

    Otherwise Oberyn would have joyfully sipped on a glass of wine while watching Tyrions head get chopped off…

    Well that’s my opinion anyway.

  111. Patchy Face
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

    Arthur,

    Really – pls cover your spoilers

  112. Arthur
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    But I can’t wait to nerdgasm!

    And Oberyn screaming those three lines over and over again will surely send shivers of multiple nerdgasmic feelings throughout my body… D&D should include in there for us if it doesn’t come out corny on film…

    This little college scene with him screaming the lines didn’t seem corny to me at all…

    SPOILERS! Don’t click link.

    http://youtu.be/1bzTrHlSW7M

  113. Steve
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    Christ in heaven, listen to Patchy Face. What the hell is wrong with you?

  114. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:38 pm | Permalink

    Another opinion on the awesomeness of the RV, and why, in particular, related to those lines, and him in general.

    Until this moment, no one has ever – from what we know – taken a fight to Gregor Clegane. We have seen, from the first book (and the first season), that Beric Dondarrion was sent out to the Riverlands to bring him down, but he had an army, or rather, a group, at least, of people. And he went on orders, not because he wanted to. And we’re mostly of the opinion that Beric Dondarrion turned out to be pretty badass in general anyway, what with the whole being killed and resurrected six times kind of thing.

    Furthermore, in terms of physicality, cunning, and knowing one’s way around a fight, I think we’d all have to agree that there are few who match up to Bronn in this manner, right? And Bronn, of course, refuses Tyrion’s request to serve as his champion in a trial by combat – knowing full well that it’s a suicide mission.

    So the RV steps in. He takes the fight to Gregor – not a poor conscript who stumbles upon him or has the bad luck of being cleaved in two by the guy. We saw nearly 3 full books of the Mountain growing in either reputation or actual deeds, and with all that in mind, to see someone have this kind of cojones was something, and especially as he went about it. So yes, what he says is awesome, because it’s a taunt, a taunt that’s wrapped in seething anger at what happened to his sister.

  115. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:43 pm | Permalink

    JamesL:
    TheBlackFlame,


    No, it’s not and I honestly don’t even think we will be hearing that in the show and I wouldn’t even mind if we don’t.I know people would will complain if they leave that out but similar to the battle cries in the books certain things that sound fine on paper don’t translate well to film, it would probably sound really cheesy on the show if he is yelling that out during the duel.I’ve never understood the big deal over this part in the book, this scene will not blow people away like some seem to think, to most viewers it’s just two dudes fighting each other.The average viewer will not nerdgasm over a Red Viper-Mountain duel like book readers.The only reason the casual viewer will have any interest is because it is for Tyrion’s life.

    It worked on film when it was “Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die!”

  116. Arthur
    Posted December 24, 2013 at 11:55 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    I had to look up what you were talking about and you’re correct, it does work.

    Although the music in the background could be a little more dramatic and less comedy-ish.

    http://youtu.be/d6m7NR6iYjg

  117. Dragon Tender
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 1:17 am | Permalink

    FamilyDutyHonour:
    TastesLikeTheSea,

    They’re not really supposed to look related, though? She’s his partner/wife/thing, not his daughter! You’re thinking of the Sand Snakes.

    FamilyDutyHonour,

    That, or TastesLikeTheSea is thinking more of, well, Jaime and Cersei.

  118. Greenjones
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 1:30 am | Permalink

    Bannerless Bro,

    Season 4 Episode 1′s imdb page is not accurate in terms of who will be in it. Few of the names listed are credited as being in that episode on their CV’s, it’s just where people have dumped all of the names when the news of their casting first came out. Some of the listing on IMDB for later episodes is accurate though, I think.

    If Hoji is in this pictured scene and this scene only, then no, he will not be in episode one.

  119. loco73
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 1:45 am | Permalink

    It is good to see some morcels of information slowly starting to make their way to us. They look good both of them. I’m most pleased to see Indira Varma as Elaria, but both the Red Viper and The Mountain look great. I like the new Mountain. I’ll always think that Conan Stevens was THE Mountain, but I like the new one too!

    Happy Hodorific Holidays!

  120. Uther Greenshirt
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 1:57 am | Permalink

    loco73,

    mayhap after we see the bear in action he will be THE mountain that rides.

  121. Turncloak
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 2:37 am | Permalink

    TheBlackFlame,

    Blasphemy. We will definitely get all the lines from that duel as it’s written in the book. Anything else would be an injustice. Since I think this is one of D&D’s favorite scenes I’m sure they will honor it

  122. Evan Chan
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    “Is it just me or …”

    Shouldn’t painted seals of the Joffrey administration – lion and stag combatant – more or less look quite new? He just hasn’t been king that long for them to appear with an antique patina as per that featured in the arena. That said, it’s difficult to imagine a lot of time for such city improvements given the recently repelled siege and pending winter.

    #justsayin

  123. arden
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    Evan Chan,

    Seriously? It’s just you.

    We need a trailer already..

  124. OldeCrone
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    Evan Chan,

    You’re ‘avin’ a larf?

    Mind you, there is no harm in having a joke. Reading this website sometimes I wonder that some folk get terribly worked up over what is after all a story – a good story – but still a story at the end of the day. I don’t contribute to the westeros.org website but I read some entries there intermittently and some of the contributors take it all terribly, terribly seriously.

    Back on topic, Series 4 Mountain is a big lad — I know that was already common knowledge but “a picture speaks a thousand words” and he certainly looks the part. I don’t know what his acting credentials are of course.

  125. Jentario
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    OldeCrone,

    Westeros.org is a dark place where dreams go to die, but there are still some jokes to be found there.

  126. TheBerylfly
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    As a person who just came from Westeros.org after having a thoroughly enjoyable time in Rhaegar thread, I can confirm it’s reputation is overrated

  127. Feremuntrus
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    While this is highly improbably, I wish they could somehow incorporate this song as Oberyn’s theme. Would go as an excellent end song after the duel, assuming it’s the last bit of the episode it’s in.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhv_yFMuwxs

  128. lowki
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    Feremuntrus,
    you’re like the tenth person who suggested that. or was it just you suggesting it for ten times?

  129. Arthur
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    Feremuntrus,

    That would be amazing!

  130. Feremuntrus
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    lowki,

    I heard the song months ago but I noticed no one posted it on this article. But to answer your question, it wasn’t me and I’m glad people share my opinion on the song :)

  131. Bannerless Bro
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    Faheem,
    If I recall correctly the duel happened in the tourney grounds just outside KL.

    Evan Chan,
    Thought the same, but on camera we will see the ground on an angle in wich it won’t look like a patina but more like dust. So it won’t kill anyone’s immersion.

  132. Joshua Atreides
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    This should be the RV’s song….

    http://youtu.be/wQNrTv0u0Qo

  133. Jentario
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    Feremuntrus,

    That song was used for season 2′s record breaking first trailer, which rules it out.

  134. Turncloak
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    I just figured out a cruel joke in relation to Jon Snow’s parentage. when he finally realizes who his parents are it won’t make any difference. He will still be a bastard regardless. Except instead of Snow, his surname will be Sand if indeed Lyanna gave birth to him at the tower of Joy in Dorne

  135. Jentario
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,
    Not really a spoiler, but…
    I think he’d still be a Snow or maybe a Rivers (because of Rhaegar). In any case, I think if anything will stop Jon from becoming king it’ll be his vows to the Night’s Watch.

  136. TheBerylfly
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    There is quite a strong theory going on re: Rhaegar potentially marrying Lyanna on the Quiet Isle (although I forget how it dealt with the matter of Rhaegar already being married). Rhaegar could have also legitimatized him and tell the KG who would in turn tell The Seven (we are protecting the Last Rightful Heir or whatever) which would mean that whenever Howland Reed gets off his arse he can let it out
    And Jon has already broken his vows before his death

    That said, I am willing to be he WON’T end up on the Iron Throne itself

  137. Rygar
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    Wait I thought Jon died at the end of Dance

  138. Arthur
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    Jentario,

    I don’t think that would rule it out…

  139. Jentario
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    Nah, his plot armor is too thick to be pierced by a few daggers.

  140. Arthur
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    Jon did die but I bet he either worgs into Ghost or Mel brings him back

  141. Jentario
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    Arthur,

    Or both.

  142. Rygar
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    Oh for fucks sake. GURM really can’t control himself eh? What a fucker.

  143. Arthur
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    Gawd…

    I just listened to the audio reading of the duel again… This scene really has great potential.

    I hope D&D include The Red Vipers skull being crushed by The Mountains fist flying into it a few times.

    That would be sickening but so effective.

    SPOILERS:

    http://youtu.be/2JU53dfWE8w

    I also think the talking (taunting) that The Red Viper does is a key element to this scene so I hoping D&D included every word from the books to this scene.

  144. Storyline
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    What are you talking about – really, sometimes you make no sense.

  145. Jentario
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    Storyline,

    Rygar rarely ever makes sense.

  146. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    Jentario:
    Arthur,
    Or both.

    Death is just a state of mind and quite overrated in ASoI&F.

  147. Rygar
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    Storyline,

    The whole fucking a character is dead, but let’s resurrect them back by using magic from the Red God. Balls, why hasn’t everyone caught on to this religion for immortality? the Others? Fuck the Others. They can go suck my resurrected junk box..

    Its far too much and a serious flaw in GURMs writing/story.

  148. Jentario
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    It wasn’t always like this. But in the last two books GRRM has “killed” and saved POV characters dozens of times already, which makes it seem like he doesn’t have it in him. Hell, the Pink Letter scene- supposedly the second most shocking and horrible chapter considering it contained both Stannis and Jon’s deaths- is almost certainly going to end with both Jon and Stannis alive. Which is ridiculous in my opinion. I hope GRRM shows his ruthlessness again early in TWOW because I’m beginning to doubt every so called death in the books.

  149. Rygar
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    Jentario,

    “I am stupidest when I try to be funny.”

  150. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    Jentario:
    Hodor’s Bastard,
    It wasn’t always like this. But in the last two books GRRM has “killed” and saved POV characters dozens of times already, which makes it seem like he doesn’t have it in him. Hell, the Pink Letter scene- supposedly the second most shocking and horrible chapter considering it contained both Stannis and Jon’s deaths- is almost certainly going to end with both Jon and Stannis alive. Which is ridiculous in my opinion. I hope GRRM shows his ruthlessness again early in TWOW because I’m beginning to doubt every so called death in the books.

    “Death” in ASoI&F is actually quite an interesting discussion topic primarily because of the PoV-driven plots. Many of the deaths are presented as 3rd-party information to a PoV…and you know how info goes around a circle and gets distorted in the retelling. ToJ is just hearsay to most. fAegon is full of mummery. No facts presented yet. Hence, GRRM can use these tools to tell the story from multiple perspectives (almost as if it is used throughout Westeros as a strategy). There are some who live in ignorance (but they don’t know it) and we get to witness that ignorance firsthand. Some may think of it as a cheap writing technique but it does have its fun.

    As far as I am concerned, GRRM introduced warging and resurrection for a reason and foreshadowed it with Orell and Beric (secondary characters), respectively. Will he continue to use the technique for a major PoV char like Jon as he used it on Cat/LS? Personally, I am hoping for an LS PoV…can you imagine how dark it would be? Also, a warged PoV from Jon/Ghost would be fun as well. That’s just me though….I rather enjoy not knowing if dead is really dead. Given wights, WWs, CotFs, resurrections, warging and sorcery, all bets are off in ASoI&F.

    :)

  151. Joshua Atreides
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    Well said. Glad to see someone defending Martin’s “plot holes” (despite the LoL being more of a cult than a faith and too few people actually being witness to its miracles for the multitudes to abandon the Seven). I’ve been ill with a respiratory infection recently so I missed the transformation of this site into Rygar’s “fuckyeahgurmsucksanddicksareawesome” tumblr. Not that I mind his/her humour but I rarely feel the presence of the Mods anymore. This betokens how significant a lull the pre-season has reached. We really, really need a In Production or Teaser vid very soon.

  152. Rygar
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Atreides,

    It was two comments based on the fact that the rumor is Jon is not dead. and I am a bit floored by that revelation. Cut me some slack old timer or you know I won’t to you. ;)

  153. Storyline
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    Nah – you are funny all the time (though you make no sense). Anyway, just want to remind folks this is not a history of Westeros – is it a FANTASY – meaning unbelievable crazy things are supposed to happen.

  154. Joshua Atreides
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    Fair enough. I don’t even consider it a rumour but as a blatant fact. And it has nothing to do with denial. There are clues, especially in the Pink Letter chapter. I will be mightily surprised if it wasn’t the case to be honest. I’ve enjoyed all 5 books and I believe Martin has an end game in mind. That said, I frown critically on the notion that if the rumours are true, than George used a generic cliffhanger as a way to court controversy and drum up anticipation for his story. It reminds me of a certain show that he said ASOIAF would never emulate…now what was the name of that show again? I had it on the tip of my tongue but now I LOST it.;)

  155. Rygar
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    Storyline,

    Right. And that’s why Mr Martin kills off his main characters. Because this is a fantasy and not realistic what so ever. ;)

    I see your point. And I’ll stop being a bitch.

  156. Storyline
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    I just said it was a fantasy – not a happy fantasy. Ever read the Grimm brothers? Pretty dark stuff there.

  157. Jentario
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Atreides,

    I love GRRM and ASOIAF to death and feel ADWD was the second best installment in the series. But sure, we are part of Rygars “fuckyeahgurmsucksanddicksareawesome” tumblr.

    A bit of criticism doesn’t always mean direct and trollish hate, you know.

  158. Rygar
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    Storyline,

    Ah but much of Grimm is real shit written metaphorically. Far different.

  159. Joshua Atreides
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    I guess I’m simply not judging where the story is going until it’s complete. It appears you have issues with the resurrection deal. That’s cool man. Let’s bury this tomahawk shall we? Lest I’ll be talking to the Chief’s head. “You people are the original fucking slow learners,”

  160. Jentario
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Atreides,

    It’s not the resurrections that irk me specifically, but fake deaths in general. At first it’s fun when you find out Davos is alive or when Brienne narrowly survives a tough fight, but then Tyrion almost drowns in the river (as if anyone believes that will happen) and Asha “dies”- oh no, she’s actually alive- and then there’s the Pink Letter which (unless something really unexpected will happen) is going to amount to nothing at all with both Jon and Stannis alive after their respective encounters. It cheapens the experience. If I would have read the Red Wedding after ADWD, I would very much doubt I would have bought it. I actually didn’t believe Quentyn got fried until it got confirmed in another chapter (and he is the only major death I can think of that actually came through in those books except for Prologue/Epilogue characters), which goes to show just how many times characters escape certain death narrowly (and not just through resurrection) in the last few books.
    Again, I love ASOIAF and ADWD but nothing is perfect. Expect for ASOS.

  161. Rygar
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    Yes. What she said.

  162. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Atreides,

    Sorry to hear about your illness. Please take care, ser Spice Mouse!

    I’ve rather enjoyed the speculation ride this past year and especially enjoy the frenzy of S4 and TWoW anticipation from all, even the dark, cynical side. Like many, I’m in this for the dubious thrill and escape.

    Thanks for the many awesome perspectives and ingenious bullshit. Happy 2014 to the WiC staff and adventurers all!

  163. jon snow
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    pedro like oberyn is so hot.

  164. Stormborn Groves
    Posted December 25, 2013 at 11:33 pm | Permalink

    I’m just really looking forward to this season. I’m a GOT whore and proud of it. I’ve read the books far too many times. There’s just so many great scenes happening this year my favorite parts from the books will happen this year. The PW, RV and TM. Seeing the lovely characters from Dorne. TL getting into a wee bit of trouble. D&D said everyone’s story lines across the board is action from start to finish mostly no build ups like the previous seasons looking forward to more Arya and The Hound. Even Sansa and her “knight” florian the fool sorry for the misspelling. Spoiler Sansa and Littlefinger the Vale with The Lord of the Vale and his mom an ex Tully. Make the bad man fly!!!!! Yay so looking forward to seeing all of it come to life yet again and they never disappoint! Love ASOIAF and loooooovvvveeee GOT thanks winteriscoming.net for my fix and Christmas is coming…. Oh wait it’s here…. And it’s almost over and to the Starks winter isn’t coming up in the Midwest it’s here!!!!!

  165. loc073
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 1:47 am | Permalink

    Uther Greenshirt,

    You are probably right. I like (Haf)Thor, he is a charismatic and engaging guy. I am fairly certain that he will more than fill the role of The Mountain. Is just that Conan Stevens stuck in my mind, what with having been part of the now iconic Season One. I just hope that Thor is it in terms of The Mountain That Rides. No more recasting please!

  166. Mariya Martell
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 2:39 am | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    Regarding bastards last names.

    I’m almost certain noble-born bastards keep the names from where they were raised, not where they were born. Jon would still keep Snow as his name.

    The only examples I can remember right now are of Obara and Nymeria, who were born respectively in the Reach and Volantis and yet are both called Sand.

  167. Abyss
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 5:35 am | Permalink

    Mariya Martell,

    No, Jon is the exception, not the rule. Usually noble-born bastards are named after the region they were born in.

    Bastard surnames are dependent on the region a child was born in, i.e. where the mother is from, not where the father is from.

    source

  168. tysnow
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    Why does everyone assume Jon is dead, yes he was stabbedand seriously injured and then passed out. But too many are believing he died and will be resurrectedby GRRM’s new magic plot device via Mel by way of Thoros. I am not all that sure George isn’t pulling everyone’s chain; after all he loves to find some way of avoiding battles at times. Perhaps Jon is nurtured back to health by Val/Mel only to find out the Wildlings went all wild on the NW and now there is a NW/Wildling War, and Jon has to find a way to temper both sides. Maybe Jon wakes up in a wagon after weeks have passed, and learns a NW/Wildling war has devastated the Wall defenses, everyone is in retreat as the Wight army has invaded the Gift. George loves to find ways to jump ahead of the action, then over a series of chapters, readers learn what transpired previously.
    I am just saying readers/fans shouldn’t jump the gun as to Jon’s fate.

  169. Patchy Face
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    tysnow,

    Good point – as a matter of fact when I first read the chapter I had no belief that the worst had happened – only on rereading, did I start to think there was a problem. So you may be absolutely right in your assumptions.

  170. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    tysnow,
    Regarding Jon, I hope Ghost is somehow involved in his recovery…first, Ghost kills the mutineers after their initial attack, drags Jon away and saves him, then Jon/Ghost warg for a while to further the storyline while Jon’s body recovers. Jon probably won’t die but he will be saved via the efforts of a certain red priestess and a mysterious northern beauty. Indeed, when he recovers, Jon will emerge a changed man.

  171. Rygar
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    tysnow,

    Maybe I subconsciously wish for it. But I was duped by the Caesar like mutiny. .

  172. TheBerylfly
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    As long as we are talking about Jon, what do you guys think of that theory of Val playing important role in his revival instead of/alongside Melisandre? I know that it’s unlikely, yet when I read it it sounded both convincing and just… kinda cool
    …i may be biased against Melisandre

  173. Turncloak
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    TheBerylfly,

    I believe in the Ragnarok theory of ASOIAF. So I think Jon, Mel, Dany, BloodRaven, Tyrion, Bran, and the White Walkers will join forces against the realm of men. With Jaime there as the Prince that was Promised to try to stop them

  174. Rygar
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    That’s a really really really bad theory. No insult intended toward your belief but someone has to say so.

  175. Jon Blackfiyre
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    I big theory of why he has to kill Jon is to show him being Azor Ahai. So it might be more then shock value(

  176. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    TheBerylfly,

    Not that I’m biased against Mel, but I am an avid speculator about Val…I just hope she is more than meets the eye, and her wariness of Shireen’s passive greyscale, her awesome, almost unimaginable, trip to retrieve the Thenns, her wildling liaison capability, and her implied knowledge of northern mystical history, is relevant.

    Regarding Ragnarok, I’m not sure it is directly relevant (and, although interesting, I’m not going to sign up for the chaos as stipulated by Turncloak), but I do believe the iron throne will perish at some point, to serve as a symbolic destruction of the old realm and as a metaphor for a new beginning (for better or worse).

  177. Macharius
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    It’s supposed to be autumn now, but it still looks like high summer.

  178. Jentario
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    tysnow,

    But then what would be the point of the Prologue? Jon won’t just wake up all fine and dandy as if nothing happened. The stabbing will take him out for quite awhile IMO, whether through death or just a normal coma. In this time, he will likely warg Ghost and we will likely see Melisandre as the POV in the Wall, or else I don’t see the point in making her a POV in ADWD.

  179. Dragonslayer
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 12:46 pm | Permalink
  180. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    Dragonslayer,

    This pretty much confirms we are getting giants in the battle at the wall. What else would ‘We have never seen an army like this before” mean?

  181. Patchy Face
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    What is that picture? Is it from Blackwater (ship) or is it from S4? Lots of green screen.

  182. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    Why does it take two months for these formal MGoT snippets to surface?

    (Hoping for giants and mammoths as well!)

  183. Dragonslayer
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    Patchy Face,

    Looks like Blackwater.

  184. Patchy Face
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    They are trying to even out info so you stay interested over down time – don’t you think that HBO intentionally linked those pics of RV a couple days ago?

  185. Abyss
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    The Wildling army in general. A “horde” that is a mix of all the different clans and cultures. Basically an army that is no army, as Jon Snow put it. I always found that very fitting. – Jon may not know where to put it (admittedly he knows now) , but he certainly knows how to put it. :D

  186. WildSeed
    Posted December 26, 2013 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    Calculated move to thrill fans later, and prevent web leakage .

    Patchy Face:
    Hodor’s Bastard,

    They are trying to even out info so you stay interested over down time – don’t you think that HBO intentionally linked those pics of RV a couple days ago?

    you got that right…….. HBO planned for salivating fans, come S4 opener (:

  187. gisizzlah
    Posted December 27, 2013 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    EEEEEEEEPPPPP!!!!!!!! The Excitement is building!!!!

  188. newjeffct
    Posted December 27, 2013 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    Can’t wait to see The Red Viper on screen. I really hope they do justice to his three main scenes from the book. The funny intro where he tells Tyrion that he was a big disappointment as a baby, the scene were Oberyn volunteers to by Tyrion’s champion, and of course, the big duel at the end.

    Major spoilers at the link below, but I want this scene word-for-word. You have been warned if you haven’t read the books:

    http://mccomseycomix.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/the-red-viper-vs-the-mountain-that-rides-a-12-page-comic/

  189. Nicole
    Posted December 28, 2013 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    They can’t even get red armor for the RED Viper. Not surprising. Keep dressing everyone in brown, that’s not boring and confusing.

  190. queenofthorns
    Posted December 29, 2013 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    The reason I roll my eyes at Oberyn love is that people like him precisely because he is completely uncomplicated and therefore easy to like. Unlike most of GRRM’s characters, there’s nothing to really get mad at him over, because there would have been no purpose adding any substantial character development or flaws. He’s just a plot device, after all. I guess I just find it a little vexing that fans salivate over a cardboard character like the Red Viper – makes the fanbase seem a bit unsophisticated.

  191. Lors
    Posted December 29, 2013 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

    Could it be that the one trying to look like Jamie is Loras Tyrell in a Kingsguard uniform like jamie’s???? The picture is not very clear but I think it could be Loras with a new uniform and hair style….

  192. Joshua Atreides
    Posted December 30, 2013 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    queenofthorns,

    I really don’t understand this attitude of being vexed at people for appreciating something that you do not. I consider myself a sophisticated individual, and I find the Red Viper a great, if minor, character. Martin has this way of having small yet rounded, lively characters, which is a very Dickensian take on characterization. Can’t people enjoy the character and you enjoy someone else? Am I unsophisticated for loving his character?
    You could also make the plot device argument for several characters in the series. It really comes down to if the character had an impact with you or not. Some people love Vargo Hoat. I found him kind of annoying and did not miss him when he was replaced with Locke in the adaptation. I don’t admonish others for liking his character. I can even see the reasons why they might. I just didn’t feel it.

  193. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted December 30, 2013 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    Lors,

    Unfortunately, it just seems to be another extra, maybe Balon Swann, he doesn’t have the look of a Kettleblack or either Meryn or Boros. His hair style does look like Cersei’s did during “Baelor” (and Sansa imitated of course), just without any jewels or knots.

  194. Mariya Martell
    Posted January 1, 2014 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    queenofthorns:
    The reason I roll my eyes at Oberyn love is that people like him precisely because he is completely uncomplicated and therefore easy to like.Unlike most of GRRM’s characters, there’s nothing to really get mad at him over, because there would have been no purpose adding any substantial character development or flaws.He’s just a plot device, after all. I guess I just find it a little vexing that fans salivate over a cardboard character like the Red Viper – makes the fanbase seem a bit unsophisticated.

    Says the Queen of Thornes fan.

  195. Mariya Martell
    Posted January 1, 2014 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    Abyss:
    Mariya Martell,

    No, Jon is the exception, not the rule. Usually noble-born bastards are named after the region they were born in.

    source

    Jon is an exception due to his birth’s secrecy. That’s why I didn’t even mention him, but gave instead the example of two of the Sand Snakes that were born outside of Dorne, yet have the Dornish surname for bastards. They are, as far as I know, the only example of bastards born in one region, but raised in another.

    The Wiki of Ice and Fire (which is a much more reliable source of information than the GoT wikia) says:

    As the surname is applied depending on the region where the bastard is raised, bastards who are half-siblings may have different surnames.

    http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Bastardy

    At any rate, bastards names are merely a common practice and not written in law. It will be up to the parents to decide what to name their children. And in Jon’s case, I don’t believe he would change his surname, a mark of who he is – a northern man – for a surname of a region he has never set foot in and feels no connection to, whatsoever. Not to mention, neither of his parents would be Dornish.

  196. Lexyvil
    Posted January 1, 2014 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    What I would really love to see in season 4 is a view of Dorne in the opening sequence with a little prologue scene with them before they leave for King’s landing. That would be a nice surprise.

  197. Mariya Martell
    Posted January 4, 2014 at 2:23 am | Permalink

    Lexyvil:
    What I would really love to see in season 4 is a view of Dorne in the opening sequence with a little prologue scene with them before they leavefor King’s landing. That would be a nice surprise.

    I CAN’T TELL BY THE PREVIEW IF THE SPOILER TAGS ARE WORKING. SO PLEASE, BE WARNED, THERE ARE MAJOR SPOILERS BEYOND THIS POINT!

    SPOILERS AHEAD!


    Or an epilogue, after the credits, with Doran and maybe the Sand Snakes receiving the letters. Just that, no need for more. Unsullied would be “who are these people?”, spiking their curiosity.

    Ah, what the hell, since we’re dreaming, after that scene, we could have a zooming out shot of the desert and thousands of people walking across the sands, with the Red Mountains as background, helping Ellaria bring Oberyn’s bones back home.

    Huh, what about it? Great idea, right? Would serve to present Dorne’s geography and the passion of their people. And it would serve to remind people (who will, at this point, be completely dumbfucked by the lack of gold in Tywin’s shitter) that Oberyn’s death may have consequences. Huh, juicy, isn’t it? No? Not a chance? Oh well…

  1. […] source 1 & source 2 (mods, these pics were posted directly to imgur by the photographer) Oh No They Didn’t! […]

  2. […] check out WinterisComing.net’s article on these pictures!  But be warned one of the pictures may be a spoiler for those of you […]

  3. […] Winter Is Coming posted some behind-the-scenes photos that reveal not only the Red Viper Dome for season four but our first look at King Oberyn, played by Pedro Pascal, as well as Ellaria Sand, played by Indira Varma. […]

  4. […] y vean las primeras imágenes de la cuarta temporada. Además, si son bien intensos y les interesa, acá pueden ver las primeras fotos del Red Viper y Ellaria (se ven lejos pero se […]

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