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Watch the second trailer for season 4 of Game of Thrones

Tonight, HBO aired the second trailer for the upcoming season of Game of Thrones. As per usual, the trailer, entitled “Vengeance’ has been uploaded to Youtube for our viewing pleasure. Feast your eyes.

Did you catch everything in that 1 minute and 40 seconds? If not, hit up our Tumblr for screencaps.

Winter Is Coming: Wow. That final shot was chilling and epic. Season 4 is going to bring it!

532 Comments

  • Walkers! Poor, dear Sansa “What do we do to those who kill (hurt?) the ones we love?” Good on LF! jonsnow “I will give him justice”, then Tyrion’s quote “If you are looking for justice, you have come to the wrong place”, wow, just wow.

  • OK! Coldhands FTW! Shae in a very large, very opulent bed! The Magnar! WTF is with Mel in the boat? Could they be having her kill someone else to make up for the dropping of the castellan at Storm’s End?

    Gotta watch it 20 more times…

  • Coldhands rides an elk and looks human.

    I worked with Coldhands. Coldhands was a friend of mine. White Walker, you’re no Coldhands.

  • I fucking love the editing between Jon saying “we can give him justice” and Tyrion saying “if you want justice you’ve come to the wrong place.”

    I also love Stannis’s line. Looks so damn good.

    The production values are so good. Really looks like a movie and not a TV show.

  • It could very well be Coldhands. They may have decided to tone it down. What not be the first time they have done that with a character.

    Personally, think its just a WW.

  • HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP SHAE IN TYWIN’S BED!!!! AND THE SEIGE OF MEEREEN

    WHITE WALKERS STILL LOOK LIKE MOULDY OLD MEN!!

    ps where was Coldhands I missed it?

  • That was a white walker at the end, not CH. And yes, that was Shae in Tywin’s bed. Once again people were paranoid over a change that was never going to happen.

  • ps that first shot of the Hound and Arya has the best beautiful scenery, Belfast countryside is utter porn

  • What have the WW worn previously in the show. I actually think they haven’t worn armor before. So that might indicate it could be Coldhands now that I think about it.

  • Okay, that was awesome! Thoughts:

    1) FINALLY hearing Arya recite her list of names again. In my opinion, they screwed that up in Season 2 by only having her mention it during one episode.

    2) Meereen… WOW. The pyramids look as epic as I imagined, and for some reason Dany’s throne room matches my mental image 100%. It’s like they took the image out of my head and put it on screen.

    3) The White Walker was awesome (I don’t think it was Coldhands), as was Drogon.

    4) I think they’re being too spoilery with Cersei repeating Tyrion’s words in the courtroom while wearing all black. I personally think I’d be able to guess what that was all about, even if I hadn’t read the books. Oh well.

    But overall I’d rather avoid too many trailer and spoilers. I avoided trailers last year and found it made the season way more enjoyable. So, I’ll not be re-watching this.

  • It was clearly a WW btw. Why do people even want CH in? As far as I recall he hasn’t done anything that can’t be skipped, and I don’t get why he’s so loved among fans.

  • That was not Coldhands…right? ….right?! Looked like a normal Other to me. No NW Garb, elk, ravens, etc….an Other… just an Other

  • I’d like to see more direwolf action this season, please! Summer, Ghost, something….maybe even lucking out with glimpse of Nymeria.

    Awesome trailer!

  • After pausing through a few sections:
    That is not Mel in the boat. Selyse? But why?
    Woman being burned at the stake. Missed that on first view.
    Ygritte wandering Castle Black with a big knife in her hand!
    More convinced than ever that the end is Coldhands. Looks like a cross between a WW and a dead guy.

  • Coldhands is a Wight, that last shot was clearly of a White Walker. If they wanted CH on the show he would have appeared last season.

  • Arya never meets Melisandre in the books, therefore she’d have no reason to kill her in the books, why is she now part of the prayer??? Also no Illyn Payne… Also… COLDHANDS?!?!?!?!?!?!?! … Sadly I don’t think so, and if that is coldhands it would be the worst coldhands I could of imagined, no hooded cloak to hide his face, no elk and no ravens… Ex…

  • ebevan91,

    It sounds like Jojen saying Robb Stark is dead, must have had a wet dream sorry um greendream

    BONUS POINTS FOR ANYONE WHO CAN TELL ME:

    WHERE THE FIRST SHOT WITH THE HORSES IS?

    WHO’S IN THE ROW BOAT?

    WHAT’S THAT QUARTER OF A SECOND TORCH SWOOPING SHOT?

  • Regarding the White Walker I think D&D are making it less obvious that Coldhands is any different. Instead, this is a way to mislead any Unsullied into thinking it’s a ‘bad guy’. I don’t see why there is any other reason to show a White Walker if not for that reason. Also, from the looks of things, that horse is still ‘alive’, not one of the messed up horses we seen in Season 2. Maybe the Elk was cut because it would look a little…silly?

  • On first watch the big take away was Shae in the bed. If that scene is what I think it is then it looks like they’ll be sticking closely to the book plot wise, despite how her show character has differed from the book character. I wonder how that will go over with the Unsullied?

  • Ser Davos Seaworth:
    Arya never meets Melisandre in the books, therefore she’d have no reason to kill her in the books, why is she now part of the prayer???

    Obviously because this isn’t the books, it’s the show, and last season Melisandre took Gendry away.

  • Ser Davos Seaworth:
    Arya never meets Melisandre in the books, therefore she’d have no reason to kill her in the books, why is she now part of the prayer???

    In the show, its because she took Gendry . I guess…

  • Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Coldhands is a Wight, that last shot was clearly of a White Walker. If they wanted CH on the show he would have appeared last season.

    Pause it. It looks like a cross between a wight and a WW. Bluish face, more clothing. And last season would have been too early. I always thought that it was too coincidental that Sam and Bran BOTH meet CH in the book. Think this might be better, keeping that aspect of the story to Bran alone. I can hope, right? ;/

  • Shaun Danger,

    CH may be in the series, but that shot was clearly a WW. They would not make him stylistically identical to the WWs, it would only make the audience more comfortable with seeing them, rather than dreading the sight of them as they should.

  • I think it would have been hard not to show that Tyrion has gotten himself into a pretty bad situation in any of the promotional material for the season, so I really liked how they edited the material to make it seem as if Tyrion ends up at the Wall. Obviously people realize that trailers aren’t chronological, but Jon’s statement about justice and Tyrion’s response (in what looks to be a rather bleak location) seems to imply a more direct connection. Obviously readers know that isn’t true, but I thought it was a good bit of misdirection on the part of the marketing department.

  • The person in the boat wasn’t Melisandre It was My sweet sweet Sansa escaping kingslanding And whoa that shot of the catapult thing … Season 4 is truly gonna be way more epic than the others so far …kinda like the last act of a movie …. Kill me maybe but I think it’s gonna play out like the last Harry potter movie with loads of action cut with quieter serious scenes

  • Regarding the WW/Coldhands, don’t forget:

    The final scene of Season 2 had more than one WW. At the back of the crowd, we saw another WW on horseback, raising a sword, and wearing armour. So this is nothing new.

  • Ashara D: Pause it. It looks like a cross between a wight and a WW. Bluish face, more clothing.

    Some of the WW seen in the distance in Season 2 wore armour.

  • Since Arya explains her death list to Sandor has his name been dropped off it or does she still include him?

  • Is that Daario throwing his sword at the Meereen champion? Might be a short dual

    Ps that is a strange point about the alive horse, maybe it’s just not cgi’d yet?

    Mormegil,

    She dropped his name in the book too, iirc

  • i still think that the Shae story line will go down differently in the show. it’s a shot of her laying in bed. That’s it. Doesn’t necessarily mean she will be doing the nasty with Tywin.

  • BronnToRun,

    I think at that point, the Unsullied will spend much more time freaking out about a lot of other things. Shae death wouldn’t be that controversial imo.

  • I’m pretty sure that was Coldhands, why would they bother showing us a white Walker in armor? We know white Walkers have armor, why focus on one? Gotta be a significant reason for it. Plus I’m sure the producers know he’s a well wanted character lol

  • List of things confirmed:
    – Arya’s list is still in. maybe it’s the way it was edited for the trailer, but Sandor wasn’t on it.
    Styr will be joining Tormund south of the Wall
    Jon leading the Watch against the mutineers at Craster’s Keep
    the sacking of Mole’s Town

    List of things not confirmed:
    – Kevan
    – Lancel
    – Kovarro

    Questions and other notes:
    – was that Gendry alone on the row boat?
    Coldhands or a White Walker? My assumption is WW, but perhaps they are making Coldhands a rebel WW instead of a sentient wight in the show. That could be an interesting twist on the story, and give greater insights into the threat beyond the wall.
    – it seems they are continuing to make Sansa and Tyrion closer than in the books. They’re likely doing it to make Tyrion more sympathetic ahead of the trial, and create more tension with Shae. On a related note, I am convinced that 1:05 is Tyrion finding Shae in Tywin’s bed.
    – “All Men Must Die” – this year’s tagline? It seems fitting.

    EDIT: another thought on the White Walker at the end – perhaps it is for Bran’s fight against them outside the cave?

  • Tyrion Pimpslap,

    how cool would that be, if her ruby stops glowing and the sword starts, although that’ll be a bit rude after she resurrects him

    Weird that they took The Mountain and Polliver out of Arya speech… I mean maybe last season… but this season?

  • That is totally ColdHands Watch the trailer in High DEF. He has more human features than that of other WW we have seen. Plus that armor is Almost like the training armor the NW use to train new recruits.
    Also pausing in the scene with Shae in Tywin’s Bed, it does appear to have something at the headboard. I wouldnt doubt that it’s A crossbow.

  • If that is Coldhands and he’s more WW than wight, it kind of dispels the theory that CH = Benjen and strengthens the theory that CH = Night’s King.

    It’s awesome that they used Arya’s list for the trailer.

    It’s nice to get confirmation that the deaths of Tywin and Shae will follow the books more or less. I never put much stock in the theory that they were going to radically change it to make Tyrion more of a good guy. After all, Walter White, Don Draper, and Frank Underwood are plenty popular despite being darker characters.

  • I am now more or less convinced of the following…

    In the books Stannis sends Massey to Bravos for sellswords. I think Arya stows away on his return to the wall. Or maybe she is sent by the FM to kill Melisande. Either way, I think she will kill Mel. I think the show adding Mel and Arya scene last year foreshadows this and now adding Mel to Aryas list of names. I also think Jon will pierce Arya’s heart to forge lightbringer. Something I have been a proponent of.

  • So how long till people start panicking about Mance even though we’ve only seen the south of the wall wildlings

    Don’t care,

    you sir, are a genius and I now subscribe to that theory

  • How in the seven hells would that be CH?

    Coldhands is dressed in the mottled blacks and greys of the Night’s Watch with a scarf concealing his face. His hands are black and as cold as ice, and he rides a great elk.

    CH is supposed to be a wight, not a WW, that wouldn’t even make sense. Unless they are going openly to say that bloodraven worship the White Walkers.

    P.S: Sorry about my poor english.

  • James,

    The dress she’s wearing looks very similar to what Elaaria is wearing when she kisses Oberyn, though(or maybe the bad lighting is throwing me off?). I dunno. I’m not saying it’s not Shae. If that is Sibel Kikellae(sp?), she’s very weirdly styled, compared to how she normally looks.

  • That is not Cold Hands.

    If he’s in the show, he’ll be in a lot of scenes. The appearance we saw in the trailer requires CGI to produce. That would get way too expensive. No way is that Cold Hands.

  • GG,

    Ellaria’s dress is a LOT more orange, the actresses do look a bit similar, but with the crossbow above the bed, it’s almost definitely Shae.

  • FNF:
    Regarding the White Walker I think D&D are making it less obvious that Coldhands is any different. Instead, this is a way to mislead any Unsullied into thinking it’s a ‘bad guy’. I don’t see why there is any other reason to show a White Walker if not for that reason. Also, from the looks of things, that horse is still ‘alive’, not one of the messed up horses we seen in Season 2. Maybe the Elk was cut because it would look a little…silly?

    Also, they might have trouble coming up with a domesticated elk that can be ridden, or the special effects needed to fake one. A horse is just an easier option. So yeah, I think you’re theory is sound.

  • Ser Tahu,

    Thank you for suggesting Coldhands might be a white walker! His identity is still debated; he wears a hood! While we still don’t know the full story on the wights/whites, there are plenty of ways the story could explain them. I interpreted Coldhands as an atypical wight. I think the thing in the last shot is a white walker, and that it is atypical in its appearance compared to what we have seen in the show. A rebel other would be as reasonable as a wight that has escaped control. I’m not going all in on this theory, but I think I’d nod in acceptance.

  • I still don’t know how people can’t tell the difference between the two actresses. That is SHAE, no question.

  • NickTargaryen,

    That was a costume. But its still not codhands. Also it was sansa on the boat, shae in the large bed, and jamie talking about robb stark being dead. Did anyone pay attention?

  • NOT SHAE! Why did they have to stick with the books??? I think it’s a good lesson to us after we hear her tell everyone not to trust anyone and tell Sansa not to trust her too. Littlefingered us all.

    Mel said she would meet Arya again. Though I don’t know how she knew that – does Arya have fire on her eyes or… – anyway, I digress. This puts my theory that we will have a Rickon/Jon/Arya reunion in the north pretty soon to work.

    That’s a great trailer. Does anyone know if we’ll have a #3?

  • Don’t care,

    That’s kind of unlikely, seeing as the first thing Mel looks for in her fires is harm to herself. She would see an assassination attempt coming. And, in what circumstances would Jon ever kill Arya? He might attack her while she’s disguised as a FM and kill her, not knowing she’s Arya. But where would he get the sword? And why would he use it to attack an assassin(most likely a fleeing assassin, as Arya would never attack Jon, nor is she likely to bend the knee and allow herself to be sacrificed on a sword)? And how likely is it he’d go for the heart directly while defending himself? There’s an awful lot left to chance for that to happen, which isn’t really GRRM’s style.

    I dunno. I never subscribed to the idea that Jon is Azor Ahai. He’s too moral to do some of the very contemporarily immoral acts Azor Ahai is known for.

  • Concerning the Shae appearance:

    In that bed, she sure wears more make-up than in past appearances…
    I watched in 720p, and I’m not convinced I see a crossbow like others swear: I see woodwork on the headboard of the bed. What do others think?

  • i wonder how many book unsullied will realize from these trailers and stills that joffrey isn’t in any of the tyrion trial and oberyn/mountain trial-by-combat scenes. it’s most obvious in the trial-by-combat scene, where there’s a whole dais of people, but no boy king.

    this may have been mentioned before, but it looks like they’re replacing the amethyst hairnet with something that looks more like flowers-behind-the-ear or a hair clipthis image is from the wedding shoot, and that little doohickey over sophie’s right ear is noticeable in the shadowed shot of her pulling on a hooded cloak (presumably before hopping a Baelish Cruises Express to the Vale).

  • Can’t understand people who wish CH is cut. My first thought when I saw the end of the trailer was “Hell yeah !! Coldhands !”. If he’s cut, I’ll be mad. Not “LS is cut” level mad though, but close.

  • If that isn’t CH in the final shot and just a normal WW, then D&D have taken trailer trolling to a whole new level haha

  • Ser Davos Seaworth,

    Why would Arya(on the show) be beholden to continuity from the books and not the show? Or were you being sarcastic? If eo, it’s really tough for those things to come across on a message board sometimes.

  • To me at the end the Walker looks like he’s dressed like a Dothraki. Band on the arm and gloves with light armor. Plus I think the left arm is missing

  • “I lie awake all night, thinking about how they died.”

    Yeah, well, you’re not the only one :'(

    Still not over it

  • NickTargaryen:
    That is not Cold Hands.

    If he’s in the show, he’ll be in a lot of scenes. The appearance we saw in the trailer requires CGI to produce. That would get way too expensive. No way is that Cold Hands.

    I think this is actually a pretty strong rationale. If I had to guess that is goingt to be from the rast/baby scene. They did last year too with the one that was walking in the woods and everyone was sure it was CH.

  • It’s definitely Shae, and she’s all dolled up for Tywin. He must like his whores to wear lots of makeup!

    After examining the video of the Red Viper vs. the Mountain duel, I actually believe the man sitting in between Tywin and Jaime to be Mace Tyrell. The man appears heavier than the Kevan we’ve seen in the past. I took a screenshot of the man and tweaked it. By brightening the image I could see that the man appears to have long white hair, like Mace, but in the trailer the hair hidden due to the lighting in the shot. I’m extremely disappointed that it appears we won’t be seeing Kevan this season.

  • Tyrion Pimpslap:
    the other guy,

    What purpose does he serve? All he was is a Wight that Bloodraven controlled.


    The cool thing about CH is the mystery behind him. Before TWOW many people thought that he was Benjen Stark. However, you clearly see that this is not Benjen in this shot. I hope we still have a Coldhands but hopefully with a mysterious hood like in the books

  • GG,

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I don’t know, to me when I read Bran’s ADWD chapters up until he reaches the cave, I couldn’t stop thinking that the group wouldn’t have survived without him. To me, he makes it believable that they’re able to survive beyond the wall.

    What did he do that is so badass ? An undead who speaks (“Brother !” — “I am your monster, Brandon”) and helps Bran is, at least , intriguing. I remember my reaction when I read his first appearence in ASOS, when Sam suddenly realizes that his hands look like they’re made of ice or something and the chapter ends. That was awesome.

    But hey that’s just my opinion. Maybe you’re right and he’s not needed in the show to progress in Bran’s plotline, but I just think it would be sad to loose him.
    I know some people said the same thing for Belwas (who I didn’t care being cut), but I think CH adds something to the story and I would be disapointed if they cut him.

    Oh and sorry if my english sucks at points.

  • GG,

    Well, he fed Bran and co. pieces of Night Watch deserters and told them it was pork (I think he killed the deserters too- Summer helped I think).

    But I agree with the analysis that he’s really more of a meatpuppet used by Bloodraven- he’s definitley not Benjen Stark.

    I think the WW at the end may be the show version of CH though- I heard the horse whinny, suggesting it was alive, and the way the scene is filmed makes me think it is the show’s version of the CH intro in the book (although I’m guessing it will be Bran and co. meeting him, not Sam and Gilly).

    Also, the guy’s face looks unusually human- gives a feel of a combination of a Wight and a White Walker.

    I am prepared to be disappointed though…

  • GG: hat purpose does he serve? All he was is a Wight that Bloodraven controlled.

    Quote

    I think people are going to be very impressed with Sansa this year. The interviews tease that she learns at a faster rate than we see in the books. I think we will see her as a player this season

  • The one scene that makes me think Coldhands will eventually appear is when Sam slays the White Walker with the obsidian dagger. As he and Gilly are running away, they’re surrounded by ravens, the sign that Coldhands is close by.

    Other than that, I agree that Coldhands isn’t really necessary for the show, as Bran and Co. can make it to Bloodraven without his help.

  • NickTargaryen,
    I’m not saying there is no cgi in the shot, but it’s a costume. I can make that”glowing” u r referring to with my iphone. So ur argument is ludacris and moot.

  • Had to watch that one a few times. Wow! Season Four is really shaping up. Not sure about CH, I’ll take a wait and see attitude on that one. Mereen is looking Desktop Wallpaper worthy. Is it me or are the women of GoT getting MORE beautiful? I’m having difficulty carrying a single torch this time. ♥♥

    The North Remembers…

  • Butterbumps:
    You know what, I’m just gonna say Coldhands Coldhands until it becomes true.

    I’m gonna say Strong Belwas Strong Belwas until it becomes true.

  • GG:
    “I lie awake all night, thinking about how they died.”

    Yeah, well, you’re not the only one :’(

    Me, too :sobs: :sobs: :sobs:

  • cosca:
    Kyle,

    Why are you disappointed? He does basically nothing in ASOS.

    I think having Kevan appear in Season 4 would’ve been a great way to reintroduce him for his role in S5. I wish that Kevan was the one counseling Tyrion, as in the book, instead of Jaime. Having him appear only after Tywin’s death just seems wrong to me.

  • I wonder if the journey to BR’s cave is going to be as destructive to Jojen’s health as it was in the books. I also wonder, if there is no CH how they’re going to do the wight attack. Is Bran wearing a Hodor suit going to have to fight them all off? Meera is pretty bad ass but not to the extent that she can take on an army of wights.

  • greg:
    NickTargaryen,
    I’m not saying there is no cgi in the shot, but it’s a costume. I can make that”glowing” u r referring to with my iphone. So ur argument is ludacris and moot.

    The argument is a rapper? Because Ludacris is a guy. Ludicrous is a state of being.

  • GG,

    Well Mel’s visions have always been misleading, both to her and the reader. Jon is certainly not a paragon of morality. He’s made alot of questionable decisions; broken his vows etc…

    Would Jon kill Arya if he needed to forge lightbringer? If it was Arya’s life against the entire realm… would Jon make that difficult decision? His entire arc has forced him to make so many difficult decisions, maybe not of that magnitude… but certainly very difficult decisions. I don’t think the sword matters… I think it is more the person and the act. Long claw would certainly suffice I think. I don’t think Arya and Jon will battle, nor do I think she will be a faceless man when she meets Jon. I think Jon’s time comatose or in Ghosts body he will learn some secrets both about AA and lightbringer and will come to think that he is in fact AA/PTWP. I think he will consciously decide he needs to forge the sword and he could only do it by killing the person he loves the most and that’s Arya. How it comes about I have no idea. I think it would probably be sudden and quick; she won’t even know its coming. I think the fact that Massey is going to Bravos where Arya is, is far too convenient.

    GRRM has always gone against tropes in the fantasy genre. The avenging son for example. A big trope in fantasy is the concept of “a chosen one”, “magical or powerful” weapons like Narsil in LoTR. We know that GRRM is a big Tolkien guy so it wouldn’t surprise me

    if GRRM put his own twist on Aragorn and narsil/anduril with Jon and Lightbringer

  • greg:
    NickTargaryen,

    That was a costume. But its still not codhands. Also it was sansa on the boat, shae in the large bed, and jamie talking about robb stark being dead. Did anyone pay attention?

    People see what they want to see.

    People should really learn to download the video and watch it in slow motion. That’s what I do.

  • I don’t think that’s Coldhands as described in the books. But is a different take on Coldhands ala Daario in the show compared to books. I think this is probably due to budget issues. Maybe CGI elk was too expensive considering how expensive this season looks like it will be.

  • Dominique Lavigne:
    Concerning the Shae appearance:

    In that bed, she sure wears more make-up than in past appearances…
    I watched in 720p, and I’m not convinced I see a crossbow like others swear: I see woodwork on the headboard of the bed. What do others think?

    I agree. No crossbow. Just the headboard. I just think it’s a case of people seeing what they want to see. Also I think her hair is different and that’s why people are having a hard time recognizing her.

  • White Walker or Bloodraven combined with Coldhands to make him mobile for the show. Horse appears to be alive, eyes aren’t glowing blue, we know Bloodraven is old enough to be mistaken for a crusty White Walker when riding through a snow storm. It’s too different from Coldhands to be Coldhands, but a mobile Bloodraven wouldn’t be too far fetched. He’s going to collect Bran & Co.

  • Talking about “purpose” doesn’t really apply here. It’s a fictional, fantasy story. A character being cool is a perfectly good reason to include them! Besides, purposes can take all sorts of forms in a narrative. Some characters further the plot, some are comic relief, others exist (on screen) for boob. What purpose did Coldhands serve? He was fun. Dunno about you guys, but I both read and watch because I find the story extremely fun.

  • God dammm! Valar Morghulis!
    This was a much better trailer actually! Loved it 10x!

    BTW who is saying” he was betrayed by his own men” ? Is it Stannis? Or Jon?

  • James,

    Yep, it was. He’s talking about this season’s invented material where Jon and some fellows go and dole out justice to the mutineers at Craster’s. This was something we got from set reports and is now confirmed by the trailers and featurettes that have been released.

  • All i know is that anyone who thinks show Coldhands will ride an Elk is kidding themselves.

    Oh, and the Others in the books look like humans, too. They altered them for the show. That very well could have been the show version of CH.

  • Reza:
    I think Arya most importantly missed Ilyn Payne and Walder Frey out of all people!

    They didn’t put the whole prayer in. Ilyn will likely be in the prayer, but they probably used the big names to show them for the trailer, Ilyn and the rest are too minor. Not to mention Ilyn won’t appear on screen this season, not sure if they’ll mention him tbh.

  • Reza,

    Jon, talking about Lord Commander Mormont, though they’ve manipulated it to look like it’s about Robb. It’s probably part of Jon’s justification for the attack on Craster’s Keep

  • cosca:
    Reza,

    Jon, talking about Lord Commander Mormont, though they’ve manipulated it to look like it’s about Robb. It’s probably part of Jon’s justification for the attack on Craster’s Keep

    Yup. Clearly set up to make the audience think Jon is going to get revenge for Robb.

  • Reza,

    Think the list in the trailer is probably an abridged version of the one in the actual show. Besides the ones you mention, Polliver should be there too since Arya presumably is going to kill him this season.

  • Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Jacarb,

    Budget,budget,budget!

    Boobs,boobs,boobs!

    Which is to reiterate that the show absolutely will spend money on extraneous fun. This is in no way proof that Coldhands will be in. Just that he’d be interesting, and that’s a possible reason to include. Especially by switching the elk to a horse, Coldhands wouldn’t necessarily an expensive character.

    Honestly, he’s probably cut. I’m just not sure, and the argument that he serves little purpose is silly to me. I’ll be saddened, but I have generally enjoyed the show’s original material, so you won’t hear me complain beyond that.

  • It looks like there are a lot of delusional people on here who aren’t willing to accept that Coldhands has been cut. At the end there was clearly not him: no black clothing, no elk, no pack of ravens. Coldhands is a wight, and that was clearly just another White Walker.

  • They need to have CH or some character to lead BS to the 3 eyed raven, I was thinking they might use his uncle who has disappeared.. any thoughts?

  • Onion Knight:
    It looks like there are a lot of delusional people on here who aren’t willing to accept that Coldhands has been cut. At the end there was clearly not him: no black clothing, no elk, no pack of ravens.Coldhands is a wight, and that was clearly just another White Walker.

    It very well could be CH for the show. Notice the horse is alive and not undead like the ones from earlier in season 2 and 3.

  • I wouldn’t be so quick to say that isn’t Coldhands. The Elk was never a possibility. I always thought they’ll just give him a horse and call it a day (which is understandable) and he doesn’t look like any white walker we’ve seen before- he is wearing armor, riding a living horse and overall doesn’t give off the same feeling (look at the face, it’s very different). Mans for my final argument- look at the eyes!

    Super stoked! This trailer should be better to Unsullied who have no idea what’s going on in the other trailer. Some of my friends are like that.

  • Yep, fuck you non believers! The eyes aren’t chillingly blue! This is a Coldhands if I’ve ever seen one.

  • Another thing to consider is that Thranduil from the new Hobbit movies rides an elk (and it looked badass) so maybe they cut that from Coldhands so there won’t be that overlap

  • Lyn Corbray,

    Given how many big scenes there are this season, I doubt there was any budget left to CGI an Elk. Maybe last season they could have done it.

  • Another awesome trailer…

    Got to say the best line in this one was Dany’s “I will do what queens do… I will rule” The delivery of that line was really sweet and gave me that happy feeling lol…

    Some nice new shots of what us book readers know is coming as well.

    I expect we will see another big 3min trailer around this time next month. They will use all the shots in trailer 1 and 2 plus some more new ones while GoT cast and crew go on the TV show blitz to promote GoT season 4…

    Also expect a few more behind the scenes type stuff…

    Man I am so excited!

    Season 3 blu-ray should arrive in the mail mid this week and that will hold me off for a weekend or two.

    Damn cant April 6th get here any faster!!!

  • Sean C.:
    Oh goody, Sansa confiding in Tyrion about how she feels.Yeesh.

    I think, especially with what Sophie said about Sansa in season 4, that she is being in a “sharing” mode with Tyrion just because she is going to use her sorrow as an excuse to leave and meet Dontos. It seems like it can be the same scene, she is wearing the same dress (though I guess they make her wear that dress a lot…).

  • Annara Snow,

    Yeah, I think that conversation is the show version of one of the chapters (I think a Tyrion POV?) indicating that Sansa started going to the Godswood all the time to pray/mourn her family but was actually going to visit Dontos.

    Am I remembering correctly?

  • Jordan,

    Youre right, there must be more coz Hound then says “name of every person in Westros?” The list gets longer every season for her…poor Arya!

  • Geez people, Sibel Kelkili and Indira Varma don’t even look that much alike! The woman kissing Oberyn was clearly Ellaria, and the woman lying on the big bed in an opulent room is clearly Shae.

    Also, “Cities in Dust” – awesome! Even if it’s a cover… They are using really great songs for the trailers.

  • Kaylos,

    A freshly killed horse wouldn’t have gone rotten yet. It could still be dead, and we just can’t see the wound that killed it from that angle

  • Daemon:
    Am I the only one who thinks the white walker looks like Mormont?

    No, you’re not – at the end of season 2, when I saw the White Walker, I was really confused for a moment, because I thought he looked a lot like a skinnier Old Bear!

  • Jordan:
    Annara Snow,

    Yeah, I think that conversation is the show version of one of the chapters (I think a Tyrion POV?) indicating that Sansa started going to the Godswood all the time to pray/mourn her family but was actually going to visit Dontos.

    Am I remembering correctly?

    Yes, Tyrion thought she was really pious!

  • I think the rider at the end looked like a partially decomposed human/animated corpse. I thought it looked more like a wight than a White Walker.

  • Love how this second trailer has Cersei referencing Tyrion’s ‘ashes’ line used in the second trailer (Seven Devils) for season two.

  • Onion Knight:
    It looks like there are a lot of delusional people on here who aren’t willing to accept that Coldhands has been cut. At the end there was clearly not him: no black clothing, no elk, no pack of ravens.Coldhands is a wight, and that was clearly just another White Walker.

    Are you sure that he was? Coldhands is undead, that is all we know. Wights are not sentient, which rules him out as a wight if he is indeed sentient. Now, if he is just a “meat puppet” controlled by BR, then he’s really not that interesting, is he?

  • Why has no one pointed out that it looks/sounds like Brienne is being burned? Maybe this is how she meets Lady Stoneheart, given that the Brotherhood is pretty much in cahoots with R’hllor, so could hanging be replaced with fire now?

    edit: Not sure if it’s from the same scene, but a second before that it seems Mel and some men are standing by the fire…

  • Yeah, sorry, folks, but that fellow at the end was an Other. Having said that, I do hope we will see Coldhands this season.

  • cosca:
    Kaylos,

    A freshly killed horse wouldn’t have gone rotten yet. It could still be dead, and we just can’t see the wound that killed it from that angle

    Why would they have an undead horse look alive when the undead horses from the attack on the fist looked undead? There’s no indication in the books or the show that wightified humans or animals could ever be mistaken for a living thing.
    I’m not sure if that WW is CH but it is pretty obvious that the horse is alive.

  • AngryRosFan:
    I think the rider at the end looked like a partially decomposed human/animated corpse. I thought it looked more like a wight than a White Walker.

    Wights don’t ride horses do they?

  • It is not a bad a thing for Sansa to talk share her feelings with Tyrion. In the books, she can keep all her thoughts and feelings to herself because we are inside her head. Even though Sophie Turner is acting the part of Sansa very well there is so only so much it is possible to convey through body language and facial expressions. That’s why it was necessary to give her Shae and later, Tyrion as confidants. It was the only way the audience can know what she is thinking.

  • Alright my fellow Sullied, now that we’ve seen what is tantamount to proof that Shae/Tywin is definitely a thing how exactly are the showrunners going to pull off this wicked little narrative coup? How do they make the Unsullied-heck even the Sullied!-swallow this bombshell when there has been many instances of the show painting Shae as a sympathetic character?
    Firstly, her insinuation into Tyrion’s retinue. Did Tywin arrange for Bronn to bring Shae to his new employer through the “Ginger Cunt’ Lannister officer acting as the middleman? This is congruent towards how Tywin knew about Tyrion’s whoring all along; further demonstrated by the “do not bring that whore to court” remark as a psychological tactic to ensure that Tyrion (predictably rebellious) would do so. After all, no one knows better than Tywin that the best way to inflitrate Tyrion’s emotions and overall his trust, is through a “whore”. Also recall the instance in “Valar Dohaeris” following the end of their brutally awkward tete a tete, Tywin remarks “the next whore I find in your bed I’ll hang”; surely a measure to persuade further “whoring” on Tyrion’s part.
    Her attachment to Sansa seems to contradict this theory however. Unless, it was Shae the spy adapting to the changing patterns of her quarry and following his orders to the T so Tyrion’s miniscule and subconscious doubts about his paramour could not rise to surface. Perhaps D & D in their bidding to make Shae a more rounded character in the books (and thus dramatically sweeten the deal with the revelation of her betrayal) decided to allow Shae to find sympathy with Sansa’s situation.
    Further problematic to the execution of this plot thread is the Shae/Cersei encounter in “Blackwater” which faintly echoes to the Ros mixup in “The Prince of Winterfell”. Was Shae simply adapting her spycraft to mingle with the Lannister Queen or was Cersei also aware of Shae’s role? Was the whole Ros capture scene a setup to test Tyrion’s loyalty to the family? Remember how this new trailer informs us that the “taste of ashes” speech first given to Cersei by Tyrion in the aforementioned episode is reverberated accusingly from Cersei to Tyrion at his trial. In any regard, the first two episodes of season 4 promise to clarify just exactly where the Shae/Sansa or Shae/Cersei dynamics in the view of the adaptation is headed.
    Compounding the current argument against a hidden espionage angle are the few instances where Shae reinforces her devotion to Tyrion by testing the strength of his dependence on her; professing love, a plea to flee King’s Landing Post Battle of the Blackwater and the lowest common denominator: distracting him with sexual favors. Moreover the scene with Varys in “Mhyssa” where Shae is tempted by the eunuch spymaster to take a suspected bribe from Tyrion as a bid to leave King’s Landing, we have her show of fury and bittersweet loyalty. Was this to tug at the viewer’s heartstrings or, in support of the visual evidence we’ve seen in this trailer, was this the wily Master of Whispers testing out his own theory about the sweet, stubborn whore from Lorath? As much as the writing has exhibited Shae’s fidelity to her lordly pariah, the reality that she may ultimately complete her arc as the Shae of the Books grows ever apparent.
    That aside, regarding whether or not something is something…that is definitely not a crossbow. It’s just out of frame somewhere. I have hopes for a scene wherein said weapon is confiscated. Episode 1 maybe?

  • So, is Mance going to have little to no scenes this year? I know we cant necessarily judge from these trailers but all the wildling scenes he clearly is not involved in, and we know how much time they spend with certain characters in this show, we have probably seen most of their scenes besides the battle on the wall just from these trailers and Mance is nowhere to be seen..

    Hoping im wrong but it looks that way, he might get an episode or 2 and knowing D&D they might just bring him in for Ep.9 only, wouldnt surprise me, just wish they wouldnt waste such an awesome character.

  • On Coldhands debate: “A madman sees what he sees.”

    How about that True Detective though?? That show puts me in places TV shows haven’t put me in before, and it makes me uncomfortable and also very excited.

  • WeirwoodTreeHuggerIt is not a bad a thing for Sansa to talk share her feelings with Tyrion. In the books, she can keep all her thoughts and feelings to herself because we are inside her head. Even though Sophie Turner is acting the part of Sansa very well there is so only so much it is possible to convey through body language and facial expressions. That’s why it was necessary to give her Shae and later, Tyrion as confidants. It was the only way the audience can know what she is thinking.
      

    Actually, showing her crying to herself or just being icy and obviously unhappy while having to be in the company of the Lannisters would be a much stronger way to show how she feels. And it’s not hard to realize that she’s grieving for her family.

    But I don’t believe for a second that Tyrion is really her “confidant”. If he were, she’d be telling him things that are not blatantly obvious, and that are actually secret, you know, like wanting to get away and planning to do it. Which she is, of course, not going to tell him, because she’s actually not stupid, and she does not trust him. I am willing to bet she’s only “confiding” in him in order to use her sorrow as an excuse to leave and meet Dontos, which we saw in Foreshadowing (and it seems it’s the same scene).

  • KG,

    As regard for Brienne’s suitability to the AA prophecy; that being born of Salt and Smoke:
    Smoke-The Shadowwraith
    Salt-Her tears for Renly
    Too out there?

  • Dogs,

    True Detective is a hell of a show so far, right up there with Sopranos, Breaking Bad, The Wire & GoT, best new show i have seen in a long time..

    Its so good this year in fact, i dont know how they will top it next season.

  • WeirwoodTreeHugger:
    It is not a bad a thing for Sansa to talk share her feelings with Tyrion.

    Yeah it is (assuming this isn’t her playing him, as others have speculated). If they feel the need to have her vocalize these things (which would be an improvement on last year, at least), use Shae, as you point out. Tyrion is a Lannister, her enemy.

  • I think it is a rather sad testimony to the obsession and self-delusion of some book readers that they can argue it’s not Shae in the bed…

  • Sean C.,

    Robert and Cersei were practically enemies as well, but they had one of the strongest scenes of the show so far; one that consisted of them both confiding in each other. Do you really think that Tyrion’s attempts at comforting her will actually succeed, or that she will fall into his arms crying? She is breaking down, and she is happening to break down in front of someone she can never trust. The scenes you are suggesting are not the dramatic best option. A scene between Sansa and Shae will feel like treading over old territory, while a similar scene between her and Tyrion has an interesting new development to it.

  • Little Arry,

    It does look like Brienne being burned. Maybe the writers have moved Brienne’s dilemma from Lady Stoneheart to Stannis. Maybe Brienne leaves the Aerie to fulfill her vow to kill Stannis, whereupon she is captured, to be burned as a sacrifice to the Red God. (Let’s hope she is saved — a favorite character of mine!)

  • Enfield:
    while a similar scene between her and Tyrion has an interesting new development to it.

    No, it’s not an “interesting new development”, because TV!Sansa has never been allowed to react to Tyrion like the book counterpart did. He even made her smile before the wedding.

    And the difference between the Robert/Cersei scene and these is that the former isn’t written as if they aren’t on different sides. A huge part of the fandom fundamentally does not believe Tyrion and Sansa are enemies, and the show’s writers cater to that at every opportunity. That Tyrion is a senior member of the Lannister regime and complicit in their activities, including the destruction of Sansa’s family, is something they would rather not dwell on.

  • Annara Snow,

    THE SANSA QUERY

    we see Sansa wearing her purple gown with her hair down talking to TYRION and people think that’s a bad thing but I support what a few have pointed out …she’s just being nice to get away from him without being questioned … Go back to the behind the scenes …we see Sansa once again with her hair down running through what I now assume is the gods wood. I think that comes just after she speaks to TYRION which is why in that scene she’s looking back over her shoulder checking to see if she’s being followed.. while earlier I thought that was her escape scene and the hairnet has come off however now we all know her hair is tied up before the wedding as well as when she’s on the boat at night ….in conclusion I’m obsessed with Sansa and I think the trailers have partially ruined what I was really looking forward to seeing on the show but ehhh I’m still happy … Was an amazing trailer

  • Turncloak,

    Yes I agree. I’m starting to wonder, from reading the interviews with Sophie, whether or not they’ll really diverge from the books and have Sansa carry out the plot with the hairnet. The general TV audience would love it.

  • Sean C.,

    It’s the same reason why (in my opinion) they swapped Jaime Lannister for “The Lannisters” when Bolton delivers his fatal blow to Robb. After building up Jaime as an anti-hero to the audience they must have been afraid that the viewers would believe Jaime complicit in the Red Wedding and undo all the good work of his redemption arc. When in reality, Jaime is a participating member of the Lannister regime, and just like Tyrion, he is an enemy of the Starks. The difference is that with Tyrion, they seem to be portraying him as the good guy or the “nice Lannister” and therefore a confidant for Sansa is their idea.
    Another example of the showrunners not trusting their audience. Cow-towing to the less cerebral inclined demographic may resulted in profit and more seasons, but despite this particular boon, it has sapped the quality of the adaptation. I love the adaptation don’t get me wrong, and observing it is a virtual pop cultural meta-literary experience (Blah blah blah) but as a fan I freely admit when they make a mistake even if they had no other option.
    That said, the frame in the trailer with Shae on Tywin’s bed gives me pause that the whitewashing of Tyrion may be deliberate in more ways than one. As they may be afraid that the act of him strangling Shae would be too much for the Unsullied Tyrionites on top of his moral ambiguity if they had sketched him from the source material verbatim.
    We will have to see what happens. Feel free to check out my Spoiler blocked conjecture on the Shae situation a couple of posts above, for further rumination.

  • sloosh,

    That will never happen. The show will never make her complicit in framing Tyrion. People read way too much into that interview, particularly as Sophie said the same kind of stuff about last season, and we know how that worked out.

  • I’m willing to bet my other hand that 1) They were going to have to change CH a lot due to budgetary reasons 2) And that is him. And if #2 is correct as a huge fan of his I’m totally down with it. Looks amazing.

  • Guys, Coldhands wears a scarf not to reveal his face. So, the last guy cannot be Coldhands… so far there is noticeable act that Coldhands has performed in the books that cannot be skipped in the show.

    Come on, they are not going to show Bran and company trudging through snow for more than 5 minutes.

  • Turncloak: I think people are going to be very impressed with Sansa this year. The interviews tease that she learns at a faster rate than we see in the books. I think we will see her as a player this season

    I don’t see anything of the sort being teased. Sansa is already behind the book version, and Sophie talked about Sansa becoming a player last season as well, when that couldn’t be further from what happened, both in-text and in terms of the writers treating Sansa as an object rather than a protagonist.

  • Hey and if all this influx of “Game Of Thrones” promos was not enough, GoT also got mentioned on “Talking Dead”, the talk show which airs on AMC in the aftermath of each new episode of “The Walking Dead”. Chris Hardwick, the host, gave a shout out to “Game Of Thrones” and mentioned he’d like to see Tyrion in the zombie appocalypse…LOL, while one of the guests (don’t recall the name) mentioned that he’d like to see a GoT-like openning sequence on “The Walking Dead”, because he wanted to see the geography of TWD and better understand where all the characters are located…

    As an avid TV viewer I am soo pleased that I have shows like “True Detective”, “Boardwalk Empire”, the awesome “The Walking Dead” and my prescious “Game Of Thrones” to watch!!! For all the non-sense and garbage which populates the boob-tube these days, I still feel spoiled to have the opportunity to see all these great shows!

    I’m looking forward to AMC’s newest drama “Turn”, Showtime’s “Penny Dreadful” (though that one reminds me of the TV series “The Hunger”) and most of all FX’s Guillermo Del Toro’s created and produced vampire epic “The Strain”…

  • Don’t care:
    I don’t think that’s Coldhands as described in the books. But is a different take on Coldhands ala Daario in the show compared to books. I think this is probably due to budget issues. Maybe CGI elk was too expensive considering how expensive this season looks like it will be.

    they could remove the elk . and a guy in black hood without any face would be much cheaper than a white walker. your argument is invalid

  • Besides HBO has another major project in the pipeline with “Masters Of The Ari”, a kind of companion piece to “Band Of Brothers” and “The Pacific”, with Tom Hanks, Garry Goetzman and Steven Spielberg aka Playtone involved behind the scenes as producers. There is also “Criminal Justice” a limited, seven-part miniseries which has had some delays and setbacks with the untimely and sad passing of James Gandolfini, now replaced by Robert De Niro. I can’t wait to see DeNiro on HBO, since his counterpart Al Pacino has done soo well (“Angels In America”, “You Don’t Know Jack” and “Phil Spector”)!

  • That person in the boat isn’t Sansa. How on earth would she know how to row? It’s two different scenes blending into each other, and one is Sansa removing a hood in the dark. The other person is some random rower, or Gendry.

  • I haven’t read every comment yet, but no one seems to have mentioned that Brienne is being burnt? What-is-going-on?

  • patchface,

    that’s not Brienne, it’s some poor random woman.

    Also, about the horsie in the end: I think it’s simply lacking CGI to make it look undead.

  • Sword of the Morning,

    There is no way they would ever have an actor riding a real elk in the show and it would look stupid having him ride a CGI elk and a waste of CGI budget when he could just ride a horse.

  • Hm … We’ve seen the first shot before but I always thought it was of Locke arriving to Harrenhal. Could it be of him arriving to Castle Black instead? Because I think I can see straw soldiers in the background, possibly the same ones we saw behind Jon in one of the other trailers.

  • Nobody is saying Sansa and Tyrion should or will be bffs. However, in the books she gave him the silent treatment besides a few icy replies to him. Their reactions to each other are internal. That would make for terrible TV. The two of them need to have interactions. From what we’ve seen so far, it looks like she’ll occasionally open up but he has to drag it out of her. That is necessary to convey that Sansa has the conflict of seeing him as a Lannister, therefore an enemy even though Tyrion is kind to her.

    Do people really want to see scenes of them sitting around in awkward silence?

    Since they will only have scenes together in two episodes there’s no need to worry that they’ll get too buddy buddy. There isn’t time for that.

  • 1. If it were Coldhands, they wouldn’t show him in the trailer.
    2. He is riding a horse, not an Elk.

    If we get Coldhands, it will likely be a merge of the two characters Blood Raven and Coldhands. They talked alot about merging characters. Like Tywin getting the Boar skinning scene from Randyll Tarly.

  • Satin,

    Yes, she is. And she wouldn’t know how to row, that’s why Dontos is doing it for her. Unless Littlefinger parks his ship at the Red Keep’s gate, she’ll have to get there somehow. Couple that with the water that is seen in the background in the last trailer when she turns around and you have Sansa in a boat. And doesn’t Dontos use a boat to get her to LF’s ship in the books?
    I love how determined she looks in that night shot. She should be wary but she isn’t. Maybe others are right, and she will know the plan before Littlefinger explains it to her? I wouldn’t mind that.

    Speaking of Sansa, her talking to Tyrion about the RW isn’t that bad imo. Yeah, I would have liked her to show her hate for the Lannisters more, but we have to remember that on the show, Tyrion is a saint and only cares for her well being and bla bla bla and Sansa acting cold towards him will only make her look bad in the viewers’ eyes. Regardless of all that, she won’t be seeing him anymore after 3×02 so I wouldn’t worry about Tyrion’s presence ruining her development. What I do worry about is Littlefinger talking about love to her right before he kills Lysa because she tried to hurt Sansa. Their dynamic is interesting because he is teaching her the game, not because he wants to help her out of love for her, his mother, god knows who. I just don’t want “only Cat” to end up being “only Sansa”.

  • Hand of the king:
    Satin,

    Yes, she is. And she wouldn’t know how to row, that’s why Dontos is doing it for her. Unless Littlefinger parks his ship at the Red Keep’s gate, she’ll have to get there somehow. Couple that with the water that is seen in the background in the last trailer when she turns around and you have Sansa in a boat. And doesn’t Dontos use a boat to get her to LF’s ship in the books?
    I love how determined she looks in that night shot. She should be wary but she isn’t. Maybe others are right, and she will know the plan before Littlefinger explains it to her? I wouldn’t mind that.

    Speaking of Sansa, her talking to Tyrion about the RW isn’t that bad imo. Yeah, I would have liked her to show her hate for the Lannisters more, but we have to remember that on the show, Tyrion is a saint and only cares for her well being and bla bla bla and Sansa acting cold towards him will only make her look bad in the viewers’ eyes. Regardless of all that, she won’t be seeing him anymore after 3×02 so I wouldn’t worry about Tyrion’s presence ruining her development. What I do worry about is Littlefingertalking about love to her right before he kills Lysa because she tried to hurt Sansa. Their dynamic is interesting because he is teaching her the game, not because he wants to help her out of love for her, his mother, god knows who. I just don’t want “only Cat” to end up being “only Sansa”.

    I can totally see Sansa escaping that way, but in the trailer, there is only one person in the boat, and it’s morning, while Sansa removing her hood is in the dark. So these are definitely two different scenes. She does look very badass, though!

    ETA: picture of rowing boat courtesy of wicnet:
    http://wicnet.tumblr.com/post/76917755396.

    As for Littlefinger, he could simply manipulate her. Also, it’s a trailer. It could be edited to mean anything, basically. (See also Jon presumably talking about Mormont, but the trailer making it look like he’s talking about Robb.)

  • That’s not CH, nor is it a WW. It’s their love child!

    Dany’s lines are hilarious in these trailers.
    “How can I rule 7 kingdoms when I can’t even rule a city?”
    5 min later…
    “I will do what queens do. I will rule!”
    And the best part is when she wants to kill everyone in Westeros. Dany, sweetie, what will you rule if everyone’s dead? Soil?

  • Joshua Atreides,

    Wow…

    You’re right!

    Drogon’s vocals also evolved with his age and size… Like most real life creatures vocals do from infancy to adulthood… Was hoping that detail wasn’t overlooked, but as always D&D leave no rock unturned.

    No more whelping dragon cries… The baby dragon appearance, behavior and sounds are all gone…

    Poor Dany has to learn how to properly “mother” these dragons with no tips or pointers from anywhere…

    She has 3 living, breathing, weapons of mass destruction with no idea how to handle them other than pure Targaryen instincts…

    Good luck with that Dany!

  • Where do they go from here, though. Trail-wise. I assume we’ll get (at least) one more, before the premiere, and it just feels like we’ve seen enough. Don’t know if I want anymore spoiled to me before the premiere.

    I suppose the last one will have Mammoths and Giants, more Meereen-bombardement and dragons. …probably will se that one too, then.

  • Well, I’ve nothing new to bring to the table, but it’s good to know the courses are even bigger and juicier than before. But I do prefer Feral Love (and overall, Seven Devils) to this track. The King’s Landing material will still be what I’m pause-buttoning over and over. Plus, good to see a first look at a White Walker, and it’s good they’ve made it distinctive from the one in the last 2 seasons.

  • Here are large GIFs from the trailer. Not everything I gifed is new, but since I didn’t do GIFs for the 15 min feature (simple too much work) I did the scenes which were shown there for the first time as well. The GIFs that have the add on “(slow)” run at half speed, so you can actually see what’s going on. The Walker at the and was too big to upload and cutting some frames didn’t helped in this case.

    Army
    Ayra And The Hound 1
    Ayra And The Hound 2
    Aryra At Campfire
    Boat
    Brienne
    Burning Woman
    Cersei 1
    Cersei 2
    Cersei And Jaime
    City
    Daario (slow)
    Dany 1
    Dany 2
    Dany On Horse
    Drogon
    Explosion
    Feast
    Fight 1
    Fight 2
    Fire Arrow (slow)
    Jaime
    Jaime And Bronn
    Jon 1
    Jon 2
    Jon Fighting
    Little Finger
    Man In The Dark (slow)
    Oberyn And Ellaria
    Oberyn And Gregor 1
    Oberyn And Gregor 2
    Riders
    Sansa 1
    Sansa 2
    Shae
    Stannis
    Thenn
    The Wall
    Tunnel [Not much to see, even frame by frame, no point in slowing it down.]
    Tyrion 1
    Tyrion 2
    Tywin
    Tywin With Sword
    Ygritte 1
    Ygritte 2

  • Satin,

    On a second look it does not look like Sansa. But who is it, if it’s not her?

    As for LF, I hope you’re right and he’s just trying to teach her ways to kill enemies. I just don’t want a repeat of Baelish’s lovestruck face from s3. The last thing this story line needs is romanticism. It’s Sansa’s development story line after all, not Littlefinger’s.

  • The question is: who will find this ww/ch? Bran and co? Jon while going to craster? Mance going to the wall?

  • Talisa’s ghost,

    This might indeed be the same scene. Same dress, same backdrop.

    “How can I rule seven kingdoms if I can’t control a single city?”
    “I will stay here.”
    “I will do what queens do. I will rule.”

  • Hand of the king:
    Satin,

    On a second look it does not look like Sansa. But who is it, if it’s not her?

    As for LF, I hope you’re right and he’s just trying to teach her ways to kill enemies. I just don’t want a repeat ofBaelish’s lovestruck face from s3. The last thing this story line needs is romanticism. It’s Sansa’s development story line after all, not Littlefinger’s.

    Dude, who was in a rowing boat at the end of last season? Looks like Gendry might make it to King’s Landing after all. (Unless it’s some random person collecting Tyrion or whoever from the shore.)

    I don’t think they’ll play this one romantically. I do think LF has a pretty obvious thing for Sansa on the show, but it’s always rather predatory. He tends to leer at her under his smirks, and while she didn’t really notice last season, I do think she’ll wise up to it rather quickly over this one. And I doubt she’ll like it at all. And even if he’s into her, he’ll also still manipulate her, because that’s who he is. His love for Cat was hardly “pure,” either. I doubt we won’t get “Only Cat,” because it is absolutely iconic for this character.

    Talisa’s ghost,

    Coldhands was actually Syrio Forel. And right now, he is Daario Naharis.

  • I can’t stop thinking of Daddy’s conversation with Thornes when I look at the screencap of Shae & her pose…

    hihihi

    Also, iirc there was a screencap (HBO year end?) of Sansa during ~at least the early stage of~ The Trial, so it seems there will be a change with her escape. Also I think a ColdHands type character is important to show that the “old way” is still powerful beyond The Wall, and that these powers also have some control over “death”.

  • ‘Just got my Season 3 DVD on Monday morning over here in England. It looks amazing, it even comes with a direwolf hologram on the bottom :D. The only pre-unwrapping gripe I can find is the back cover is glued onto the plastic dragon sleeve. That’s going to come off in no time.

  • Satin,

    That’s not Gendry. There’s no place for him this season. The only reason for his appearance will be replacing Mya with him, but that’s still too far-fetched and I don’t think they’ll get that far into Brienne’s story line either. And did the actor even film for s4?

    When I said I don’t want to anything romantic between the 2 of them I wasn’t even thinking Sansa might react positively to his advances. God no! I was just thinking they might make LF look more infatuated with her rather than creepy and predatory. But like I said, I really hope you’re absolutely right and this story line will be one of the only ones that don’t suffer any changes because it’s great the way it is in the books.

  • bob,

    Nope, that was my extremely low-quality screencap and Sansa was not in it. Tyrion is escorted into his trial in-between a complete entourage of extras.

  • bob,

    That wasn’t Sansa at the trial. Sansa is not there during the trial. I can’t believe people are still thinking that’s her when that extra was wearing Highgarden clothes.

  • Hand of the king:
    Satin,

    That’s not Gendry. There’s no place for him this season. The only reason for his appearance will be replacing Mya with him, but that’s still too far-fetched and I don’t think they’ll get that far into Brienne’s story line either. And did the actor even film for s4?

    Occam’s razor – the most likely person to be shown in a rowing boat this season is going to be the person who ended up in a rowing boat last season. As for there being no place for the character this season: the guy is a regular, which means they have to pay him. And they won’t pay him for sitting around. Also, don’t forget this is the show, not the books – they can basically drop him in anywhere, especially if he is in King’s Landing. He could find out that Brienne and Pod go looking for the Stark girls and follow them, if nothing else.

    As far as I know there was a tweet indicating that he filmed. But even if we didn’t hear about it, again, it doesn’t mean anything. Think about it: if there hadn’t been that person in Iceland randomly filming that road – for what reason ever, really – we wouldn’t even know Pod was with Brienne. Chance plays a big role when it comes to actor spotting.

    When I said I don’t want to anything romantic between the 2 of them I wasn’t even thinking Sansa might react positively to his advances. God no! I was just thinking they might make LF look more infatuated with her rather than creepy and predatory. But like I said, I really hope you’re absolutely right and this story line will be one of the only ones that don’t suffer any changes because it’s great the way it is in the books.

    I would be surprised if they changed it. Littlefinger is pretty much an unmitigated dick. Showing him to suddenly have actual, non-creepy feelings would seem really weird for the characterization they’ve given him so far.

  • Haven’t we seen the man on the charger [in the desert setting] in just about every ‘teaser’ this year? Having said that, there is new stuff in this trailer and it’s possible the White Walker/Wight or whatever might be who some folk are speculating he is. If I remember rightly book Jojen and book Meera came into the story at a different stage to their show counterparts At the time of typing there is only [says she having scrolled up the page] 56 days, 13 hours, 45 mins and sundry seconds to wait and see ………

  • Love the counterpoint throughout this whole trailer. Arya not sleeping before she’s recited the names of those she’ll kill; Sansa kept awake by her massacred family. Jon’s promise of justice and Tyrion’s lack of hope for it. Stannis keeping out of the history of others and Cersei’s recollection before the court.

    Hoping the Hound is still on Arya’s list as she recites it before him in that scene, the tension of that travelling pairing needs to stay strong right until she leaves him for dead.

    I’m not sure where to stand on Coldhands. I can’t see the WW at the end being him without all the scarf, cloak, crows and elk ensemble but he has to be in somewhere surely, and why would focus be put on a random walker out for a stroll? Other than trailer trolling of course.

    Does anyone else think the shots of Shae lying in the bed and Tyrion looking over his shoulder at Tywin could all be from the same scene? Doesn’t seem to indicate Tywin’s death on his throne if so, which would be unfortunate

  • Sean C.:
    Oh goody, Sansa confiding in Tyrion about how she feels.Yeesh.

    I’m actually looking forward to this. Game of Thrones adaptation is best when it takes two characters who didn’t interact much in the books and putting a different spin on their relationship, or giving more time for that relationship to show itself than the books could. Powerful scene between Peter Dinkledge and Sophie Turner? Yes please.

    Yes, it’s a different relationship than the one in the book. But it’s not a stark contrast. One of Sansa’s season 3 scenes makes it clear that the fact he’s a Lannister upsets her. She’s more willing to be friendly with him and share her feelings, but it’s not totally illogical given his treatment of her beforehand. Even Book!Sansa reflected on how he had shown kindness to her before, which is why she chose him over Lancel. So to take Book!Sansa’s conflicting feelings about Tyrion and play that out in front of the camera does not seem to be as dramatic a deviation, more a different, more muddled balancing of her feelings towards him.

    And the whole argument that they are doing something wrong because, in the books, Sansa doesn’t share her feelings with Tyrion, is verging on one of those simplistic “It’s different in the books, therefore: WRONG.” Many of the relationships between characters on the show have been changed, usually for the better, why assume this one is going to be worse before we have even seen their scenes in Season 4?

  • As far as “it can’t be Coldhands because book description”… can you guys saying that explain to me who the impostor hanging out with Dany for the last three seasons is?

    Because he sure as hell ain’t Jorah Mormont.

    Ya know, just going by the book’s physical description.

  • Valyrian Plastic,

    That actually makes a lot more sense now I’ve rewatched it a time or sixteen. Does look a lot more like a forge than any sort of bedchamber. Didn’t even notice the sword at first

  • stevelabny:
    As far as “it can’t be Coldhands because book description”… can you guys saying that explain to me who the impostor hanging out with Dany for the last three seasons is?

    Because he sure as hell ain’t Jorah Mormont.

    Ya know, just going by the book’s physical description.

    Still. Looking at these nearly three hundred comments, arguments seem to go as follows.

    People who believe it’s not coldhands:
    – Everything about that guy shown seems reminiscent of the idea they already established for a show white walker (including the sound)
    – Why include ch and make him look a way that would make everyone go “a white walker!”
    – Why include a character with such (as far as we know so far) small impact on the story, yet remove ALL the distinguishing physical attributes of this character.
    – In an overcrowded cast, why include CH at all, especially in an expensive CGI-version that would have to be repeated if he becomes important/discarded if he’s not?
    – There’s been no indication that anyone has been cast to play ch

    and people who believe the contrary:
    – It would be really cool if he was in the show, so that must be him!

  • that was definitely not CH at the end, i think it was just another random white walker, CH is a wight, who rides an elk, its not the same thing. They just wanted to put in the white walker at the end, the show is primarily for unsullied and they would have a lot more idea what a white walker is than CH.
    Still looks pretty awesome, excited for S4!

  • Rygar,

    Yep. I’m 90% sure it’s him. With the non-blue eyes and the more human-than-wight/white-walker look… I like it. Just add a murder of crows around him and it will be top notch. Sadly, no Elk :(

  • Jospeh,

    Was that a sword? Or was he just… No, no! you have to resist!

    As for CH, I would’ve thought he’d be more shrouded in mystery (and actually clothing) than that. I had a theory emerge in my head a few days ago, that a White Walker would appear before Bran, but spare his life, because some people have speculated that Bran will be manipulated into bringing the Wall down, and it would make sense to create a little mystery as to why they would want him kept alive.

  • Laurentius,

    Wow, way to put your opinion into facts! You seem to be very good at that! Now let me explain why it DOES make sense:

    -His eyes aren’t glowing blue. The only wight/WW/ice zombie that doesn’t have blue eyes in the books is Coldhands.
    -The horse isn’t undead.
    -The whole look of his face isn’t very White Walker-y, and he definitely looks different from previous WWs we’ve seen.
    -Nobody expected to see the Elk. The reasonable ones assumed a horse will take its place.
    -The armor this dude is wearing is very human and completely different from the standard WW armor (which is just a tribal banana hammock).
    -The ominous lead up to it in the trailer, with that being the final shot. That seems like too grand an honor for just another White Walker.
    -There are no White Walker scenes in the books after ASOS (so far), only wights.
    -It would make no sense to cut Coldhands from Bran’s arc considering he has literally nothing to work with for an entire season if you do that. Also, Coldhands is a fan favorite and an awesome image to behold- it intensifies the mystery of the Others. It also makes complete sense to delay Coldhands to season 4 so Bran will have something to do.

    I’ll accept it if you don’t buy it, but there is more than enough evidence that makes it discussion worthy (and that make your post seem douchey).

  • I wonder if that was Gendry in that boat… Great trailer anyways. I particularly admired the introduction of the Thenns. Those scars really look badass

    To all the people who are in denial about the fact that Mads Mikkelsen is perfect for Euron: I don’t want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.

  • azad injejikian,

    that would be quite different, though. With Coldhands, we know that he was once a human, so whatever his reasons are to help Bran – used by Bloodraven, relative of Bran, etc – they are not completely unusual. A WW helping a human, however – that seems huge.

    I don’t believe it’s CH in the trailer, just a good old Captain Corpsicle, but maybe he’ll still show up next season? Never give up, we got the Reeds and Stannis’ family, too.

    Veltigar:
    I wonder if that was Gendry in that boat… Great trailer anyways. I particularly admired the introduction of the Thenns. Those scars really look badass

    Yay, I’m not alone! (Both for thinking that might be Gendry, and for liking the bald and wild ones.)

  • azad injejikian,

    I think they (like ASOS) are trying to trick the viewer into believing Sam (or Bran in this case) is in a heap of trouble to make for an epic cliffhanger. I think they will try to make this scene very reminiscent to the Sam and Gilly scene in season 3. We’ll see the crows flocking, probably some wights will attack, we’ll see a dark figure walking through the woods that looks frighteningly similar to a White Walker… He slays the wights and tears his horse towards Bran. The episode ends.

    As for why there was no casting news- Coldhands is barely a character. It is only logical to cast Ian Whyte or any of the standard CGI/monster stuntmen to play him.

  • I find it beyond odd that no-one has made a remark about the WW’s black hands yet. Seems to corroborate some theories here. Unless I missed that bit of discussion.

  • I don’t really care of its CH or not. His would be moment of significance for me came and went already in the show (WW attack and the ravens saving Sam & Gilly). But considering that not everyone watching the show has red the books, it is quite possible that HBO could have added CH at the end as a way of tricking the unsulllied into thinking its another WW attack or something. HBO does that all the time with their trailers and previews. It could very well turn out to be a friend, not foe.

  • Someone has probably already thought of this, but it is possible that Gendry takes the place of Marillion in Season 4, given Gendry’s lack of anything to do, and Season 1 Marillion’s lack of tongue.
    Gendry, you feel, could be easily manipulated by LF on arriving in King’s Landing, and could provide company for Sansa on the way to the Eyrie (possibly also replacing Mya Stone), before being blamed for Lysa’s death.

    EDIT; Having said that, this could cause problems given that Gendry knows about Arya, but they could get round that, (possibly)
    *sees theory getting very quickly less likely*
    Nevertheless, I do wonder who will be blamed for Lysa’s death, and also what Gendry will do in S4

  • AWESOME TRAILER!!! I’m so glad Arya’s list is back in prominence.

    I was previously convinced that we wouldn’t have Coldhands, but two things about the final WW shot now push me the other direction:
    1) The gloves. That was a very prominent thing about CH in the books.
    2) It looks like an actual person in WW getup rather than the clearly non-human CGI WW’s we’ve seen before, which leads me to think that even if it’s not CH it is a WW that will act and have speaking lines. Not sure who else that would be.

    The lack of ravens can be explained simply–he just sicked all his ravens on someone or something to save Bran & Co.

    The lack of an elk…I mean, we’re lucky to get horses in this show. I don’t think there is even such a thing as an elk you can ride.

    It may not be CH after all, but I don’t think lack of ravens/elk is definitive proof against.

  • Patchface:
    Someone has probably already thought of this, but it is possible that Gendry takes the place of Marillion in Season 4, given Gendry’s lack of anything to do, and Season 1 Marillion’s lack of tongue.
    Gendry, you feel, could be easily manipulated by LF on arriving in King’s Landing, and could provide company for Sansa on the way to the Eyrie (possibly also replacing Mya Stone), before being blamed for Lysa’s death.

    EDIT; Having said that, this could cause problems given that Gendry knows about Arya, but they could get round that, (possibly)
    *sees theory getting very quickly less likely*
    Nevertheless, I do wonder who will be blamed for Lysa’s death, and also what Gendry will do in S4

    The problem is, if Gendry is in King’s Landing, how should he meet Littlefinger, never mind go with him to the Eyrie? It would have been different if he had been fished out of the water by Littlefinger’s ship, but this way, it seems rather unlikely.

    Pretty sure they’ll find something to do for Gendry that’ll lead to him ending up back in the Riverlands eventually. He’s already pissed off at the BWB, so he doesn’t have to grow desillusioned with them anymore (as he seems to have in the books). No idea if there will be orphans, but that’s speculation for next season, anyway.

    As for who gets blamed for Lysa’s death, I’m sure she’ll have some singer at hand who can be “Marillion” without being actually Marillion.

  • stevelabny:
    As far as “it can’t be Coldhands because book description”… can you guys saying that explain to me who the impostor hanging out with Dany for the last three seasons is?

    Because he sure as hell ain’t Jorah Mormont.

    Ya know, just going by the book’s physical description.

    The major difference being that making CH a WW changes the character significantly and for no obvious purpose. Jorah being better looking makes Dany’s rejections seem a little less reasonable but its not earth-shattering. Its impossible to find actors who can act and look exactly how you want them to, but CH would pretty much be all costume, makeup and prosthetics so there is no reason for him to look different, especially given the repercussions.

    And most of the minute differences people are going after aren’t even accurate, they are just projecting their desire to have CH in. The WW in season 2 did wear armor. Saying its face looks different… so what? I’m assuming they don’t all look alike any more than people do. The horse in season 2 didn’t have glowing eyes as I remember and just because it isn’t rotting like that one was doesn’t mean it isn’t dead.

    Honestly, its only slightly less silly than people seeing Drogon in the trailer and pointing out tiny differences from last season to prove mammoths are actually going to be included this year. People are seeing what they want to see.

  • THE DAY WILL COME WHEN YOUR JOY WILL TURN TO ASHES IN YOUR MOUTH AND YOU WILL KNOW THE DEBT IS PAID

    *dies*

  • Satin,

    Hey, I wouldn’t mind seeing Gendry on my screen again. I like the character, but with so many things happening this season, I don’t really see them spending too much time on a character that is not widely popular. Sure, people like him, but unfortunately, unless it’s a well-known actor or very popular, D&D don’t bother with a character.

    I can’t stop laughing at LF’s nickname. From now on I’ll only call him “the unmitigated dick”. It’s just too perfect for him.

  • Rygar:
    I don’t really care of its CH or not. His would be moment of significance for me came and went already in the show (WW attack and the ravens saving Sam & Gilly). it is quite possible that HBO could have added CH at the end as a way of tricking the unsulllied into thinking its another WW attack. It could very well turn out to be a friend, not foe.


    Unlike Hand of the Kingslayer I KNEW you were joking until I’ve read this!
    A White Walker friend that’s not in the books or even hinted at by ASoIaF lore as narrated by Nan to Bran or present in Malisandre’s visions, Quaithe’s prophecies and so forth is unheard of! Now you are just speculating. #BookCanonFTW

  • Onion Knight: People are seeing what they want to see.

    What an accurate analysis.

    Every time someone dies on GoT, I see Daddario’s tits. Actually, its when someone lives too.

  • Hand of the king:
    Satin,

    Hey, I wouldn’t mind seeing Gendry on my screen again. I like the character, but with so many things happening this season, I don’t really see them spending too much time on a character that is not widely popular. Sure, people like him, but unfortunately, unless it’s a well-known actor or very popular, D&D don’t bother with a character.

    I can’t stop laughing at LF’s nickname. From now on I’ll only call him “the unmitigated dick”. It’s just too perfect for him.

    I’m pretty sure the character is quite popular, actually. I mean, he does get mentioned in mainstream media articles, and that for a minor character… (including one on i09(?) where the writer named him among those who got more fleshed out by the show and were thus better, and got promptly raked over the coals by certain shippers for it.)

    The actor definitely is, he comes with his own somewhat scary fandom (back from when he was on Skins). And they actually write pretty well for him; his scenes with Davos were great, and those aren’t from the books, after all.

    lol. Thanks. I’m proud to have given LF a fitting nickname!

  • So I’m finally home… After looking at it on the big computer screen rather than the phone screen, it’s definitely a White Walker. So unless Coldhands is a White Walker in the show… Still hoping for Coldhands, though.

    I wonder when this White Walker will appear, and in which storyline. Probably Bran’s, I guess.

  • ladygrace,

    Could be they weren’t quite done with the CGI when they send the trailer material off to HBO (who cut the trailers together I think? I’m not quite sure on this).

  • Omigarsh, “Cities In Dust!”
    I don’t know who that is singing it but it’s a fantastic rendering of a fantastic song.
    Just like some of the previous trailers, it’s almost a shame that the fantastic background music doesn’t actually end up in the show.
    Superb choice.

  • Nice trailer…I think they are showing too much though, and by too much, I mean they are making it easy for unsullied to read between the lines on most of this season simply by following who is and isn’t featured and in what types of settings.

  • Lollius Palicanus,

    I noticed that too. GRRM describes wights as having black hands in the books – but thats a WW. WW arent DEAD as far as we know. So, im a tad bit confused. A dead WW as CH instead of a Wight?

  • Govnor,

    most viewers are only going to catch that once, though, not obsessively going over every single detail like we tend to do. I believe it’s possible blink-and-you-miss-it images like Shae on the bed are really teases for the slo-mo faction, and they tend to be sullied one way or the other, anyway.

  • Satin,

    To be honest, it seems unlikely that Shireen would say “Seven hells!” which is what Mel clearly responds to (“there is only one hell…”).

  • Valyrian Plastic,

    No need to be so swordid! He’s just giving it a good polish is all.

    I make no apologies.

    Regarding the mysterious figure in the boat, surely they’re rowing away from the city? I don’t think its Gendry’s arrival. To my eye it looks like Bronn, possibly helping Tyrion’s escape. The boat’s stern blocks his face too much to be sure though so I suppose it could be Dontos rowing out for Sansa too. I’m certain its no Gendry though.

  • Uhhh, quite a lot to digest from all that! Nice one though, liked the song, and it was chilling hearing Cersei quote Tyrion’s ominous line from seasons past…uhhh and glad to see that the defences on The Wall are holding…can’t wait, it’s going to be epic!

    As for the presumed Coldhands…that’s not him, that is Old Scrotum Face from around the block LOL!!!! Nah that Other is one scary mofo!!!! He is like “Soon you’ll all be my bitches!”

    Question…Who is the bald headed guy with scars on his head?

    PS Bring back Gemma Jackson!

  • Hand of the king:
    Satin,

    Yes, she is. And she wouldn’t know how to row, that’s why Dontos is doing it for her. Unless Littlefinger parks his ship at the Red Keep’s gate, she’ll have to get there somehow. Couple that with the water that is seen in the background in the last trailer when she turns around and you have Sansa in a boat. And doesn’t Dontos use a boat to get her to LF’s ship in the books?
    I love how determined she looks in that night shot. She should be wary but she isn’t. Maybe others are right, and she will know the plan before Littlefinger explains it to her? I wouldn’t mind that.

    Speaking of Sansa, her talking to Tyrion about the RW isn’t that bad imo. Yeah, I would have liked her to show her hate for the Lannisters more, but we have to remember that on the show, Tyrion is a saint and only cares for her well being and bla bla bla and Sansa acting cold towards him will only make her look bad in the viewers’ eyes. Regardless of all that, she won’t be seeing him anymore after 3×02 so I wouldn’t worry about Tyrion’s presence ruining her development. What I do worry about is Littlefingertalking about love to her right before he kills Lysa because she tried to hurt Sansa. Their dynamic is interesting because he is teaching her the game, not because he wants to help her out of love for her, his mother, god knows who. I just don’t want “only Cat” to end up being “only Sansa”.

    Where are you seeing that he is talking to her right before he kills Lysa? I thought it was more likely that he was talking about the Lannisters and explaining his actions. He talks to Sansa about love a lot in the books, about his love for her mother that is, and uses it to explain why he is helping her and try to get her to trust him. He could use the same argument to explain why he wants to hurt the Lannisters, who are among those responsible for Cat’s death.

  • Sansa

    <font><font>Ashara D</font></font>:
    Po wstrzymaniu przez kilka sekcji:
    To nie jest Mel w łodzi. Selyse? Ale dlaczego?
    Kobieta jest spalony na stosie. Nieodebrane, że na pierwszy rzut oka.
    Ygritte wędrówki Castle czarny z wielkim nożem w ręku!
    Więcej niż kiedykolwiek przekonany, że koniec jest Coldhands . Wygląda jak skrzyżowanie WW i martwego faceta.

  • Talisa’s ghost:
    That’s not CH, nor is it a WW. It’s their love child!

    Dany’s lines are hilarious in these trailers.
    “How can I rule 7 kingdoms when I can’t even rule a city?”
    5 min later…
    “I will do what queens do. I will rule!”
    And the best part is when she wants to kill everyone in Westeros. Dany, sweetie, what will you rule if everyone’s dead? Soil?

    When did she say that she wants to kill everyone in Westeros?!

  • Hand of the Kingslayer,

    well, now that you say it…

    Jospeh,

    Jospeh:
    Valyrian Plastic,

    No need to be so swordid! He’s just giving it a good polish is all.

    I make no apologies.

    Regarding the mysterious figure in the boat, surely they’re rowing away from the city? I don’t think its Gendry’s arrival. To my eye it looks like Bronn, possibly helping Tyrion’s escape. The boat’s stern blocks his face too much to be sure though so I suppose it could be Dontos rowing out for Sansa too. I’m certain its no Gendry though.

    Well, the person is rowing away from the camera. Whether that means rowing away from the city isn’t clear as long as we don’t know where the city is. I mean, we don’t even know if it’s King’s Landing. (I think we can all agree it’s probably Dubrovnik + CGI, but apart from that?)

    I don’t think Gendry is less likely then others, because I don’t think it’s impossible the character is in this season, only because he’s not in the book anymore at that point. And I think he’s more likely than Dontos or Littlefinger, because Sansa seems to be running away at night, not by day. That doesn’t mean I think it has to be him beyond any doubt. I mean, this is a stunt person who rows. Could be lots of people.

  • Talisa’s ghost,

    It’s fairly obvious that the second line you quote comes before the first, but whatever. There is no persuading Dany haters, I learned that the hard way in Westeros.org

  • This WW or CH debate has me so confused. The non-blue eyes could be unfinished CGI, but why would they spend so much time showing an image that isn’t finished yet? That seems pretty sloppy.
    I don’t think it’s CH, but why is this WW so different from the other ones? Are they creating a whole new supernatural character?
    Oh well. It’s nice to have some mysteries going in. In some ways book readers are unsullied too!

  • Satin,

    IDK, on all the sites I’ve visited people don’t seem to care for him at all. Or only care because of Arya. Whatever, he’s not my favourite so I’m rather indifferent to his S4 story line, if there’s any.
    As for the actor, when I said well-know I was thinking more about Peter Dinklage, Aidan Gillen or Charles Dance known, you know actors with heavy backgrounds with a few important award nominations/wins, actors with experience. Why do you think Lady Olenna had so much screentime or LF pops up everywhere all the time saying other characters’ lines or taking their place just like Tywin did with Roose in S2? You have to give a certain amount of screen time to experienced actors otherwise they won’t work with you. (I’m not making this up, Natalie Dormer said it in an interview)

  • Annara Snow,

    Umm all of the shots with her looking at the snow and LF talking to her are from the same scene. They’re in the same place, Sansa is wearing the same cloak, just look at the background. Unless they go and play in the snow in every ep, that’s the snow castle scene and Lysa has about 5 more min of life left.
    And he may talk about love in the books, but show LF is not book LF and I just don’t want to see their scenes turned into a way to justify LF’s actions.

  • Patchface:
    Someone has probably already thought of this, but it is possible that Gendry takes the place of Marillion in Season 4, given Gendry’s lack of anything to do, and Season 1 Marillion’s lack of tongue.
    Gendry, you feel, could be easily manipulated by LF on arriving in King’s Landing, and could provide company for Sansa on the way to the Eyrie (possibly also replacing Mya Stone), before being blamed for Lysa’s death.

    EDIT; Having said that, this could cause problems given that Gendry knows about Arya, but they could get round that, (possibly)
    *sees theory getting very quickly less likely*
    Nevertheless, I do wonder who will be blamed for Lysa’s death, and also what Gendry will do in S4

    That makes about as much sense as Gendry taking the place of fake!Arya. Or less.

    I’m trying to imagine the logic behind someone hypothetically going: “Hey, you know what would be cool? Let’s have Gendry meet Sansa and LF, two characters he has never had any interactions with, and immediately become such good buddies with them to go with them to the Vale for no reason. It makes perfect sense for LF to want to bring along a bastard, who he has no use for since he is not the heir of anything, and I bet LF would also love to have a hot teenage boy hanging out with Sansa while he is creeping on her and trying to groom her. Almost as much as he loves having more witnesses to his misdeeds, who could blab where Sansa is. Nevertheless, Gendry will go with them… uh, for some reason? And Lysa would definitely love to have him there, too, she just loves to collect teenage bastards at her home. He will take the place of a character who has absolutely no similarities to him. Yes, it makes perfect sense for a boy who is not a part of the Eyrie household and not close to Lysa and would be associated with LF since he would be the one to bring him there, to be framed by LF for Lysa’s death, because people at the Vale would not associate with him LF and believe that, if he killed Lysa, he was probably working on LF’s orders. Also, it makes perfect sense for a likable guy to play the same role a total dick played in the books, and stand by while Lysa is trying to kill Sansa, or, alternatively, he can be nice and try to help, so when LF frames him and Sansa goes along with it, we will make the viewers hate Sansa more, which is one of our main goals. Also, let’s not forget how cool it would be to pointlessly kill Gendry, a popular supporting character who has an established relationship with Arya with intriguing possibilities for later romance down the line which have caught the attention of many of the viewers. So now we get to kill him in a stupid way and never let him meet Arya again. Perfect!”

    Really, what’s up with people coming up with most absurd and ridiculous hypothetical changes from the book? Is it a contest or something?

  • Hand of the king,

    I know about the sites, but they are mainly visited by extremely dedicated fans. He seems popular enough among casual viewers.

    And most of the cast aren’t as famous as Dinklage, Dance or Rigg, that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t use them instead of casting new characters, or that they don’t care about actors that are less well-known. All of Gendry, Theon, Ygritte and Talisa did have more screentime than Gillen last year, to name just one example.

    Let’s wait and see what’ll happen. April can’t come soon enough, apparently!

  • Annara Snow: Really, what’s up with people coming up with most absurd and ridiculous hypothetical changes from the book? Is it a contest or something?

    Well, strange theories seem an honored tradition for ASoIaF, so why not continue it for the show? Nobody has speculated that Varys is a merman yet.

  • Hand of the king:
    Annara Snow,

    Umm all of the shots with her looking at the snow and LF talking to her are from the same scene. They’re in the same place, Sansa is wearing the same cloak, just look at the background. Unless they go and play in the snow in every ep, that’s the snow castle scene and Lysa has about 5 more min of life left.
    And he may talk about love in the books, but show LF is not book LF and I just don’t want to see their scenes turned into a way to justify LF’s actions.

    Of course they are in the same place, they are in the Vale the whole time since probably episode 3. How different can the castle look from the outside? It is impossible to see if there is any snow in that scene, all I can see is that Sansa is wearing something bluish, which may or may not be the same cloak – not that her wearing the same cloak would have to mean it is the same scene, it’s not like she wears the same clothes just once.

    Even if it is the same scene, LF is certainly not talking about protecting Sansa from Lysa, since she hasn’t even threatened her life yet.

    And I really don’t understand your idea that LF should not be behaving on the show in the same way as he does in the books, i.e. trying to gain her trust and talking about how much he loved her mother and how he sees her as his daughter blah blah. What else do you want him to do? Laugh muhahaha and twirl his moustache and tell her she is at his mercy now? That’s not how LF operates.

  • Hand of the Kingslayer,

    hahaha why so bitter, honey? Seriously, you guys should lighten up and learn how to enjoy a joke and how to accept others may have different opinions and that is okay that not everyone likes the same thing. And most importantly, that we’re talking about fictional characters here. No need to get worked up about such trivial things.

  • About the last shot, I think now that this is CH. Living horse, black gloves, not blue eyes…I think it adds up. It’s possible that he will first appear wearing those black clothes to hide who he is, but at some point, he will just walk around like this.

  • Satin,

    That’s true, I did just assume the shot is directed away from the city. It does look shallower on this front side of the arch though so I reckon they’re still rowing out. I do think we could see Gendry about somewhere though. On the assumption that that is Kings Landing and not another city however, I’m not sure why he’d be rolling up there when in the show he’s aware of being a royal bastard with the Goldcloaks out to get him

  • Jospeh,

    I have no idea, honestly. I’d think it’d be odd, too, for the very reason you mention. I was speculating with the idea that it’s likely K-L, but after your post I realized we don’t even know if it is. Could that be an arch connected to Dragonstone somehow? Or even Pyke? Or, to go in the other direction, Meereen?

  • Joshua Atreides,

    I think it could be as simple as misdirection. Shae could be in Tyrion’s bed and we just assume, because we sullied expect to see her in Tywin’s bed, that’s what she’s doing. We will see soon enough.

    That being said, I think it’s possible Shae would have sex with Tywin if she thinks she has no other choice but to make nice. If Sansa runs away and Tyrion is arrested, as a servant in their household, she is entirely vulnerable. She might have sex with Tywin to placate him, especially if her only other protectors are neutralized.

    Shae is a survivor. She once begged Tyrion to leave Kings Landing and sail to Essos. Tyrion refused and as a result is in Kings Landing when the shit hits the fan. I can see her abandoning him because she needs to save her own skin.

    Also, Shae once told Sansa to trust no one (including Shae herself) and told Tyrion she would kill to protect that girl. She seemed to sincerely want to protect Sansa. If Shae is serious about loving Sansa and wanting to protect her, she may be faced with a choice of betraying Tyrion to protect Sansa. Having sex with Tywin would be a small price to pay to make sure she was able to deflect attention from Sansa.

  • Annara Snow,

    It’s not impossible to tell if that’s the same scene or not, but I won’t bother trying to convince you since you clearly already made up your mind and think they’d just spend money on CGI for all of their scenes instead of just filming most of them indoors, except for the snow castle one.
    “That’s not how LF operates” – you’re so right! He’s been so stealth up until now, everyone trusts him and thinks he’s such a swell guy. No one will even dare to think he’ll help Sansa, not after secretly talking to her on the pier, during the day, in front Lannister guards.

    I never said LF SHOULD do anything, I just don’t WANT him to act like that, since like I pointed out, he hasn’t been acting like in the books at all. It was a WISH, not a SUGGESTION. You either have a problem with reading what I wrote or you just want to argue for the sake or arguing and I’m not here for that.

  • Hodor Targaryen:
    Many of the relationships between characters on the show have been changed, usually for the better, why assume this one is going to be worse before we have even seen their scenes in Season 4?

    Because all of the changes the show made to Sansa’s story last season, especially those related to Tyrion, were changes for the worse, and gutted Sansa’s story on the altar of keeping Tyrion looking good?

    I’m just glad Sansa won’t be stuck as his prop after episode 2, though it remains to be seen whether she’ll just become a prop for Littlefinger instead.

  • Sean C.,

    Neah, Littlefinger is too hated for that to happen. Tyrion was popular, but the audience will be rooting for Sansa in this situation. Plus, she’s more of a main character than he is. He’s secondary to her story. In Tyrion’s case it was the other way around, although it shouldn’t have been.

  • Hand of the king:
    Annara Snow,

    It’s not impossible to tell if that’s the same scene or not, but I won’t bother trying to convince you since you clearly already made up your mind and think they’d just spend money on CGI for all of their scenes instead of just filming most of them indoors, except for the snow castle one.
    “That’s not how LF operates” – you’re so right! He’s been so stealth up until now, everyone trusts him and thinks he’s such a swell guy. No one will even dare to think he’ll help Sansa, not after secretly talking to her on the pier, during the day, in front Lannister guards.

    What are you talking about?! What does that have to do with anything? LF is trying to get Sansa to trust him. Why on Earth would they change that? How would that even make sense? Of course he is going to talk to her about his love for her mother and how much he cares/loves her as a daughter, while also trying to seduce her. He is not going to laugh and say: “Now I have you in my power muhaha”. What exactly is your problem with that line? That they didn’t change him completely from the books?

  • Patchface: Marillion

    If anyone takes Marillion’s place it’ll be Dontos.

    Marillion is still alive anyway, he wasnt killed. Why can’t he be at the Eyrie as a musician? Everyone assumes he’s out of the picture because he got his tongue cut out and cant sing. He can still play the harp. Especially if he’s under Littlefinger’s patronage, he can easily take the fall again.

  • Canis Dirus,
    theories die quickly around here. ;)

    So, I watched the trailer again, some more, and noticed the following:

    – there is a rock in the water in front of the arch with the rowboat, which would seem odd to me if it were King’s Landing – you’d think they’d keep their waterways rock-free. So that’s probably elsewhere.

    no crossbow behind or above Shae as far as I could see. There is panelling, and the headboard of the bed has some ornamental carvings. She’s also not wearing the necklace/chain I believe

    the ice-cold dude in the last image does not have black hands, I’m afraid. The movement throws shadows on his hands, so they seem black at some moments, but they are greyish-white.

  • I’m not impressed.GOT has so many actors and storylines.They could have shown a lot of new scenes in this trailer.I don’t understand why both trailers had to focus too much on the Lannisters or why we had to see the same scenes from the first trailer.Why not focus on Stannis,Arya,Theon and Oberyn?Oberyn is the major casting of the season,why do they not show new scenes?I don’t think the people who haven’t read the books understand why he is important and the trailers certainly don’t help.Listening to Arya name all the people she wants to kill makes me wish they had made her experience in Harrenhal closer to how it was in the books.I would love to see that Arya with the Hound.When book Arya names her hit list is chilling,when show Arya does it is just sad-I just see a sad,mourning girl.I don’t see why Mel is on that list.Jon saying that he wants to fight the wildlings for Robb doesn’t make sense to me unless of course the promo is misleading and he’s not talking about the wildlings.One last thing,Sansa talking to Tyrion about her family?Really?He has treated her well but he’s a Lannister.Why isn’t she trying to be more careful and less trusting?In my opinion,what the trailer does wrong is what the show did wrong in s3.It focuses too much on the Lannisters and not enough on anyone else.The Mereen scenes look pretty awesome!

  • Ashara D: ands. Looks like a cross between a WW and a dead guy.

    Id also note. The horse the WW/Coldhands is riding does not appear to be dead. Suggests Coldhands over WW

  • Fani,

    1. Mel is on Arya’s list because she took Gendry.

    2. As others have noted, the thing with Jon is probably some fake out editing- it sounds like he’s talking about Robb, but he’s probably actually talking about taking out the Night Watch deserters who killed Lord Commander Mormont.

    3. The Sansa thing is most likely in the context of her going to “pray” in the Godswood to mourn her family, and she has similar dialogue with Tyrion in the book (I think it is the chapter right before the Purple Wedding).

  • Jordan: 3. The Sansa thing is most likely in the context of her going to “pray” in the Godswood to mourn her family, and she has similar dialogue with Tyrion in the book (I think it is the chapter right before the Purple Wedding).

    I know which moment you mean, it’s the first one after the Red Wedding, before the council meeting. This will be the point at which to re-introduce Dontos, I am thinking.

  • Joshua Atreides,

    No more out there than other theories. I’ve been a proponent of this particular angle all along, though. And it would be a nice pie in the face for the fans going for the obvious choices :D

  • Sean C.,

    I agree it’s not a “new development”. ShowTyrion is sufficiently different from BookTyrion since he’s shown her quite a lot of sympathy and kindness (although one could say that’s true in the book) it definitely seemed as if he was kinder on the show.

    I think what most people are missing with Sansa is that she has let her mask down very few times because she knew she couldn’t trust anyone. Remember the scene with Olenna and Margery….they said, you can tell us the truth and she was terrified. So the poor girl has had to be stoic and appear loyal for months if not years. Still the fact that she no longer has to appear to be in love with Joffrey and she is married to Tyrion affords her some security for which she is probably grateful…along with her very real grief, I think she feels genuinely safe in expressing her true emotions to Tyrion. Majority of the court doesn’t expert her to put on a good face and Cersei and Joffrey just don’t give a crap anymore. In fact, they’d probably enjoy watching her suffer. And finally, I also think Tyrion will tell her…I had no knowledge of it ahead of time and I would not have authorized it as Hand of the King (and he’d be sincere, because he expressed that to his family last season). Add all that together and I’m 99% sure she will be genuine in expressing her emotions to Tyrion. Now the fact that it will gain her sympathy and enable to her to go to the grove to pray more often in order to plot her escape is a bonus effect of which the now savvier Sansa will be aware. But she will “confide” in Tyrion about her true feelings.

  • Joshua Atreides,

    So you’re saying that they’re whitewashing Tyrion to the point that he won’t kill Shae? If so, I disagree. Even nice ShowTyrion has killed before and his father has pushed him and pushed him…I think the plot will go down just as it does in the books except this time we’ll grieve the loss of Shae and really feel just how horrible Tyrion feels. PLUS, look at Jaime’s trajectory….Jaime has come up considerably in the audience’s eyes but he’s no saint. I think the fall of Tyrion is an excellent counterpoint to Jaime’s redemption. One brother’s going up and another going down. In the book and in the show, I think the writers are showing (and I KNOW GRRM is intentionally showing) what happens to the children in powerful families…there are consequences to having as much power and money as the Lannisters have, particularly in a multi-generational sense since they’ve been pursuing the throne through at least the reigns of two kings –it leads to corruption and families falling apart eventually. It leads to children rebelling and going their own way. Each of the Lannister children are rebelling against Tywin….Cersei seemingly the least but over time hers is the most damaging betrayal of her father’s wishes to establish a dynasty. Ultimately, I think Tyrion’s path will not, in the end, vary from the books.

  • Greenjones,

    The graphics on Drogon are spectacular…he looks so frigging real!!!! Look at the way they’ve got him hovering…animating flight, and in particular the act of hovering, is sooooooo hard and they’ve done it for a non-existent creature having no real model to work from. And the ambient things…the air forced down stirring up the dust….don’t know if that’s animation or a wind machine, but it just integrates so well.

    I’m as so frigging stoked for this season!

  • Nobody has realized we see for the first time who is sitting in the ”booth” at the trial? From left to right: Pycelle, Cersei, Tywin, Mace, Jaime. No Kevan.

    When I see people commenting about Coldhands at the end of the trailer it’s like I’m back in time and I’m seeing posts about the Purple Wedding in season 3. ”THE LAST SCENE WILL BE CERSEI CRYING WITH JOFFREY IN HER ARMS!!”Yeah right.

  • If they’ve really wasted the Coldhands reveal in the trailer I’ll be so disappointed. He should be kept as a surprise for one of the episodes.

    Next thing you know they’ll be showing Lady Stoneheart in the next trailer.

  • Hand of the king,

    Their dynamic is interesting because he is teaching her the game, not because he wants to help her out of love for her, his mother, god knows who

    I actually liked the creepiness of LF being motivated by lust for Sansa…there was that scene where he talks to her about love and trust while sitting on a short wall outside somewhere in KL….the whole relationship in the book and on the show is supposed to make us feel really uncomfortable because LF is a true sociopath who is just MUCH better hiding it than someone like Joffrey but we KNOW that we should be afraid of him, perhaps more than anyone else on the show….like Varys says, LF is the one person he fears the most. And Sansa, although she will start learning quickly, is putty in his hands.

  • do ww wear gloves and ride alive horses? plus the figure is where almost unsullied armour rather than the primitive armour/clothes the other WW have worn.

    To me WW = primitive “evil” children of the forest aka they dont need fancy armour just basic stuff.

  • Am I the only one who noticed the Hound sounds like he’s on his deathbed when he asks Arya about her list?! My body ain’t ready. :`(

  • Hand of the king,

    I don’t see LF expressing feelings for Sansa as romanticism. I found it creepy and that’s the whole point. GRRM used it to show that Sansa is jumping out of the pan into the fire (to borrow a JRR phrase)…from KL’s intrigues to being LF’s own little manipulated doll. Gives me the heebies just thinking about LF and Sansa….Does anybody else feel that way about their “relationship”? I know my boyfriend reacted that way to the one scene where they were talking about love and trust while seated outside.

  • Looks like Shae’s character is headed in the same direction as with the books. There had been speculation she would diverge.

  • Well, it’s not even been 24 hours, but the official hit counter is close to 2 million now. Do we even need #3? It would make more sense to keep a few things secret, even for the sullied, and they’ve only really expanded on what came before, maybe adding 25 seconds (at most) of new footage.

  • God damn it, just be April already! Fed up of waiting for this Season because it looks so amazing. :(

  • About the White Walker in the end of the trailer..

    Look at the White Walker on the horse in the lower right of this picture: http://401ak47.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/game-of-thrones-finale-white-walkers-army.png
    The horse doesn’t look undead.
    The White walker has armor/clothes on it.

    I think it’s safe to assume that just because the Trailer-WW has more armor on it than the one Sam killed in Season 3, does not mean it HAS to be Coldhands.

    EDIT: here’s the White Walker from the trailer–> http://i.imgur.com/DTbD1TB.jpg

    EDIT 2: A more detailed comparison. http://i.imgur.com/eJ6IoHH.jpg

  • Sean C.,

    I think she became more of a prop post purple wedding. What did she actually do besides watch LF do things, and learn from him? I’m critical of Sansa’s lack of agency too, but it’s a criticism I have of the book as well.

    Don’t see how it’s “gutted” her character. In the book she can’t get past Tyrion being a Lannister, despite knowing that he had been kind to her before. In the show the family thing is clearly a concern and an obstacle in their relationship, but she is a little more willing to see past that and remember the kind things he’s done. So the balance is different, that’s it. Maybe you prefer the book version, but “gutting” her character? Sheesh.

    What’s ironic is that the more faithful adaptation would mean less scenes with Sansa, less showcasing of Sophie’s acting, her emotional moments limited to her scenes with Shae, while she is merely present (a prop) in all of her other scenes. I don’t see how you can only want Sansa to share her feelings with Shae and at the same time want Sansa to have more, less prop-like scenes.

  • adense,

    Thank you for posting the pics! Appreciate it :)

    That confirmation of a WW sure will break Rygar’s heart. Can we confirm he’s a friendly?!

  • No one has mentioned the alley scene where it looks like a mob of people converge on a man and attack him. Could you tell who that was? I’ve looked at it a million times and can’t tell.

  • I am still willing to take any bets that the woman in the bed is Ellaria. Her face and hair simply look more like Indira Varma than Sibel Kekilli.

    Please excuse my English…

  • Jordan,

    1)Beric and Thoros are the ones who sold him,though.Arya was angry with all of them.If she’s doing it for Gendry who was willing to join their cause she wants them dead as well,right?Maybe in the episode she will mention them,but it seems to me that Arya is directing all her anger at Mel.I’m saying ‘if she’s doing it for Gendry’,because the writers like to write additional scenes (not from the original material),so perhaps Arya has a reason to want Mel dead because of sth we haven’t seen yet (just speculation).
    2)I can see Jon wanting to defend the Wall for Mormont,but I doubt the deserters will return to the Wall.I’m reading the 4th book right now,so I don’t know if that’s what happens later.(I don’t mind being spoiled)
    3)If they had planned to use Dontos,wouldn’t they have set it up by now?If not in season 2,in season 3?Joffrey’s wedding is in the second episode. Sansa will meet him at the godswood in ep 1 and immediately trust him?It will be a little rushed.

  • Fani: 1)Beric and Thoros are the ones who sold him,though.Arya was angry with all of them.If she’s doing it for Gendry who was willing to join their cause she wants them dead as well,right?Maybe in the episode she will mention them,but it seems to me that Arya is directing all her anger at Mel.I’m saying ‘if she’s doing it for Gendry’,because the writers like to write additional scenes (not from the original material),so perhaps Arya has a reason to want Mel dead because of sth we haven’t seen yet (just speculation).

    Arya did think Mel wanted to hurt Gendry, I guess that’s why she’s concentrating on her. (That, and Mel is a main character, while Thoros and Beric… aren’t. Clearly Arya is able to suss out the really important people.)

    Dontos: He was in Season 2, in the very beginning. It would make sense for him to be grateful to her because she saved his life, and she might be so desperate by that time, she’d be willing to throw in her lot with him. Besides, we don’t know what he’ll tell her yet.

  • I’m a bit unsure where the White Walker/CH is supposed to take place. I’d assume that the area around Crasters would be darker due to being the woods. And if it were there, wouldn’t there be just wights for Jon to fight there (could be cool tv though…). Alternatively, this scene takes place within Bran’s storyline, but they would not survive a meeting with a White Walker as the show can’t make those die left and right. So, where do we see that figure?

    In my opinion, the discussion on what the figure exactly is is quite pointless, since trailers can be deceiving, which is why my speculation above may just be coincidental as well. And the showrunners can go both ways if they want to, so let’s just wait ;)

  • Satin,

    Arya:I’ve just started reading the fourth book,so I don’t know if Arya and Mel meet later on but knowing where she goes at the end of book 3,hating Melissandre seems unnecessary.
    Dontos:They used him in 201 but then nothing, o I thought they dropped it.It’s very possible that you are right.Sansa may be desperate to leave Kings’s Landing that she ‘d be willing to trust anyone,but she should also be more careful by now.One thing I like about the books is that GRRM setting up storylines that will matter much later and that’s one of the reasons why they have an impact.The show however prefers shocking moments to building sth slowly.

  • hertolo,

    I reckon it could be in Bran’s storyline.
    Either they leave the forest and meet some WW’s on the way to get to Bloodraven’s cave, or it could be a part of some Bran dreams (Like the Dragon flying over KL possibly is).

  • Fani,

    Arya and Mel’s meeting is purely an invention of the show, and given how many names they’ve cut from her “to-die” list (Dunsen, The Tickler, Raff the Sweetling, and now Ilyn Payne it would seem, who’s still alive as far as she knows, perhaps they’re just focusing on the Lannisters) it makes sense to add her and Tywin to the list. She would put the Freys on the list if she knew they were also responsible for RW.

  • Fani,

    has nothing to do with the books. If you’ve seen last season you know that Gendry and Edric Storm got merged into ShowGendry, and since Mel took her last friend away, Arya has every reason to be angry at her. (And this might also be why she’s not listing the BWB – they sold Gendry, but Mel was the one who took him. Poor child has abandonment issues.) All of this doesn’t happen in the books, but it’s solid show continuity.

  • Hodor Targaryen:
    What’s ironic is that the more faithful adaptation would mean less scenes with Sansa,

    No it wouldn’t. Sansa has plenty of material in the books, much of which has been excised from the show.

    less showcasing of Sophie’s acting,

    Also not true. A more faithful adaptation would not, for instance, have completely gutted the chapter depicting her wedding, reducing Sansa to a meek pawn who did nothing, instead of following her harrowing experience of being told about the wedding ten minutes prior, trying to run, being forced to go to the sept, beginning to beg help from her worst enemy, being offered a “choice”, crying her way through the ceremony, and defiantly refusing to kneel.

    A more faithful adaptation would center the narrative around Sansa and how she perceives things, rather than having a bunch of scenes with other characters spelling out exactly what’s happening, and only then bringing Sansa in as an object for them to work on. As, again, with the wedding story in season 3, where, instead of seeing the Tyrell machinations from Sansa’s POV and putting the audience in her shoes, trying to figure out what their motives, and the motives of other seen and unseen actors are, they show lengthy scenes spelling out exactly what their motivations are, and only then does Sansa pop up. The framing of the story has been completely reversed from the books, turning Sansa from protagonist to object.

    On the specific matter of her grief, the way they scrapped the book’s description of how she learned about the death of her family in favour of a two-second shot of her crying tells the whole story. The scene of Tyrion telling her what happened, her icy composure, followed by him leaving the room, and her breaking down, would have been perfect for TV, and told the audience a lot about how she refuses to let her enemies see her cry anymore. And it would have been a scene centered around Sansa. Instead, the entire thing was shown from Tyrion’s POV. No “acting opportunities” there.

  • Arkash:
    hertolo,


    Well, Sam gave Bran and co some Dragonglass at the end of season 3, wahich doesnt happen in the books. Why give it to them if not for killing a WW ?

    So the try it on some wights they encounter, fail and get saved by a deus ex machina, either, Summer, Ghost, Coldhands, Leaf or Bloodraven. You know, drama ;)

    But ys, it’s quite pointless to speculate on how that’ll work out

  • Rygar: What an accurate analysis.

    Every time someone dies on GoT, I see Daddario’s tits.Actually, its when someone lives too.

    Rygar,

    I thought you meant “Daario’s tits”. Went to Google Images and typed in: Michiel Huisman Shirtless”. Wow – Michiel’s whole 9 yards is right there on Google Images. ( No wonder he got the job of new Daario :)

  • Sandor Claws:
    Am I the only one who noticed the Hound sounds like he’s on his deathbed when he asks Arya about her list?! My body ain’t ready. :`(

    Not at all, he sounds calm, like he is a bit bored by her reciting the same thing over and over. It sounds nothing like Sandor having an emotional meltdown and asking Arya to kill him.

  • Fani:
    Jordan,

    1)Beric and Thoros are the ones who sold him,though.Arya was angry with all of them.If she’s doing it for Gendry who was willing to join their cause she wants them dead as well,right?Maybe in the episode she will mention them,but it seems to me that Arya is directing all her anger at Mel.I’m saying ‘if she’s doing it for Gendry’,because the writers like to write additional scenes (not from the original material),so perhaps Arya has a reason to want Mel dead because of sth we haven’t seen yet (just speculation).
    2)I can see Jon wanting to defend the Wall for Mormont,but I doubt the deserters will return to the Wall.I’m reading the 4th book right now,so I don’t know if that’s what happens later.(I don’t mind being spoiled)
    3)If they had planned to use Dontos,wouldn’t they have set it up by now?If not in season 2,in season 3?Joffrey’s wedding is in the second episode. Sansa will meet him at the godswood in ep 1 and immediately trust him?It will be a little rushed.

    2) It doesn’t happen in the books, at least not in those that have been published so far. We don’t see Craster’s Keep again. But we know we will in the show in season 4, because there is a shot of Rast leaving a baby to the Others in the first trailer, and it has also been confirmed that there are scenes shot in Craster’s Keep and that Craster’s wives have been cast for season 4.
    3) Dontos was last seen in season 2, but the actor has been confirmed for season 4.

  • Valyrian Plastic:
    Fani,

    Arya and Mel’s meeting is purely an invention of the show, and given how many names they’ve cut from her “to-die” list (Dunsen, The Tickler, Raff the Sweetling, and now Ilyn Payne it would seem, who’s still alive as far as she knows, perhaps they’re just focusing on the Lannisters) it makes sense to add her and Tywin to the list. She would put the Freys on the list if she knew they were also responsible for RW.

    She probably does, we just don’t see it in the trailer.

    And everyone knows that the Freys are responsible for the RW. Especially Arya. How could they not be responsible for it when it happened at the Twins?

  • UnbowedUnbentUnhodor,

    Not so far, but maybe that was due to budgeting constraints with the production rather than story constraints. For that matter, in the books Coldhands appears to be a sentient wight but he rides an Elk. Apart from him, we don’t know for certain if TV-wights are unable to ride, or we simply haven’t seen it happening yet.

  • Lord Davos,

    I agree with you on Stannis,but the RW was a big shocking moment basically.Elia has only been mentioned once,I think and now her brother shows up.

  • Satin,

    Gendry was planning to leave her anyway.I understand her anger but going from this to wanting to kill her is a bit of a stretch,imo.

  • Fani,

    I think Elia will be solely for Oberyns motivations, and that he opens up about Tyrion about it. Makes Oberyn stronger on-screen presence, just like Jaime after his monologue.

  • Fani:
    Satin,

    Gendry was planning to leave her anyway.I understand her anger but going from this to wanting to kill her is a bit of astretch,imo.

    There’s a rather big difference between Gendry choosing to go off on his own and being forcibly abducted for purposes unknown.

  • Annara Snow,

    I think Arya will add Freys to her list bc she saw what they did to Robb.The list keeps getting bigger and bigger,it needs its own trailer!Poor Arya.Poor everyone.

  • Fani:
    Satin,

    Gendry was planning to leave her anyway.I understand her anger but going from this to wanting to kill her is a bit of astretch,imo.

    I have to say, I agree with Sean C. here – Gendry leaving voluntarily is different from Gendry being forcibly abducted. Besides, Arya was convinced Mel would hurt Gendry, if he had simply stayed with the BWB, he would have been safe.

    Add to that Arya’s age, trauma, and her most recent losses, as well as travelling with a guy who is pretty broken himself. Not to mention that she just executed a man in revenge. There really is little rationality here, and whatever you may think about the changes the show has created, it does make sense.

  • Lord Davos,

    In Jaimie’s case we saw a different side of a character we already knew.We knew he had killed Arys we just didn’t know why.When Oberyn shows up he’s a new character.There are rumors about him but it’s the first time we see what he’s like.In his case the mystery is not about the past,it’s what’s going to do about it now.

  • That’s definitely Shae. And I reckon I see Tyrion in the corner. And maybe a crossbow that I think he’s holding. I’ve got a pic but I warn anyone not to click in if they don’t want to be spoiled:

    http://i1.minus.com/jBbntn6s9vWig.jpg

    Perhaps they have him shoot her instead of strangle her?

  • Yo we didn’t even get a Battle at the Fist, the show clearly doesn’t have a big budget for white walkers, not to mention we’ve already seen Rast offering a baby in trailer 1 so they definitely already have White Walker scenes this season

    Not to mention changing a wight into a white walker just because it’s more fun would be like changing a lizard into a dragon

    However even though it’s unlikely, one good thing would that it’d stop the Others being the black and white antagonists they’re depicted as thus far in the books, a deviation, but a good one

  • Also holy shit that vine of Drogon is amazing, you can tell by his flight animation just how HEAVY he is, and that call is amazing. Yay game of thrones. This season will be amazing, no matter how much we complain about it.

  • jaybob:
    That’s definitely Shae. And I reckon I see Tyrion in the corner. And maybe a crossbow that I think he’s holding. I’ve got a pic but I warn anyone not to click in if they don’t want to be spoiled:

    http://i1.minus.com/jBbntn6s9vWig.jpg

    Perhaps they have him shoot her instead of strangle her?

    While I agree that’s a distinct possibility, there isn’t a crossbow in that shot. The depth of field of the camera puts the object much further in front of Tyrion than a crossbow would be, and it appears to be around the same length away from the camera as the bedside table. I believe it to be either part of the table or some other ornament in the room.

  • Does anyone know when we can expect to get the titles for the episodes I feel like we got then well before last year especially with the title changed to the episode grrm penned himself

  • Does anyone know when we can expect to get the titles for the episodes I feel like we got then well before last year especially with the title changed to the episode grrm wrote himself

  • Abyss,

    Ah, thanks anyways. :)

    But couldn’t you just reduce the actual width and height of the gif to make the file size smaller, allowing you to show the whole thing?

  • Holly shit, I sure enjoyed this trailer and can’t wait for Season Four of GoT to start, but man I just can’t get the last two episodes of “True Detective” out of my head! I don’t know how to even qualify and classify it!!!! It is like a long narrative interceded by odd external poems and delirious inner monologues… I feel like I’m on drugs when I watch this show, or that I perhaps should be, or end up being should I continue to watch!

    It has an almost unreal and dreamy quality to it! It reminds me in equal parts of “Appocalypse Now” and “The Usual Suspects”…yep “True Detective” is that and more….

  • loco73:
    Holly shit, I sure enjoyed this trailer and can’t wait for Season Four of GoT to start, but man I just can’t get the last two episodes of “True Detective” out of my head! I don’t know how to even qualify and classify it!!!! It is like a long narrative interceded by odd external poems and delirious inner monologues… I feel like I’m on drugs when I watch this show, or that I perhaps should be, or end up being should I continue to watch!

    It has an almost unreal and dreamy quality to it! It reminds me in equal parts of “Appocalypse Now” and “The Usual Suspects”…yep “True Detective” is that and more….

    Yes, it’s amazing. HBO blows my mind. Anyone not watching True Detective should get on that.

    It’s not just a cop show. It’s sprinkled with metaphysical philosophy and existential horror. Great acting, great dialogue. Feels like a mix between Twin Peaks and Apocalypse Now. Sad there’s only 3 episodes left!

  • Yago: . Why do people even want CH in? As far as I recall he hasn’t done anything that can’t be skipped, and I don’t get why he’s so loved among fans.

    I think it’s the descendent of wishful thinking as to his actual identity. If he makes it into the show, it increases the odds that he’s someone important enough to warrant explaining, which would validate any one of several theories.

  • Fun coincidence. The song in this, “Cities in Dust,” originally by Siouxsie and the Banshees from ’85, was inspired by the destruction of Pompeii. There ‘s a soon to be released movie, “Pompeii,” starring …..Kit Harington.

  • I haven’t read through all the comments, so my apologies if this is redundant.

    Re: The figure on the horse at the end of the trailer. I noticed several things in addition to the armor, the apparently live horse, and the less monster-ish facial construct. For example, this creature does not seem threatening like the other Others, nor is he brandishing or carrying a weapon. In his left hand he is holding what appears to be cloth or clothing.

    He’s appearing out of a snowstorm, unlike some other WWs (ep 1-1 and Sam’s)

    All very mysterious. I’d LOVE it if this were Coldhands. He could have several functions in the series plot especially in this season.

  • NickTargaryen,

    Sure, that’s what’s normally done to make GIFs work on the web. The person that manages WIC tumblr and puts the GIFs up there does it that way (my guess is it’s Fury). But the point of the GIFs I do is to make them high-res, so people can find little details in them that would otherwise not be visible. ;-)

    The thing I still need to sort out is the 256 colours per frame restriction that the GIF-format comes with. I think that’s what coursing the ugly artefacts in some of the GIFs. They are no problem if the GIF is small, but in high-res they are very noticeable…
    I might be able to fix that buy using another format like .apng, which doesn’t have that restriction, but .apng is nowhere near as good supported as GIF is and seems still to be very clunky (I couldn’t get it to work with GIMP on my Windows 7 partition). I will try get it to work on my Linux partition sometime this week.
    If there is someone around here, who knows how fix my artefacts problem, or at least can tell me if I am on the right track, I would be thankful for every help. :)

  • A few Theories :

    Shae Bed.
    Is She possibly in Joffry’s Bed? With the crossbows, and maybe He kills her with the crossbow, so everyone believes Tyrion really did poison Joffry for revenge. Or Tywin is just using his bed since he is dead.

    Theory on Burning people:
    Axel Florents crew? Maybe Selyse!?

    Ending WW/CH Theory
    Maybe he first appears as a WW and scares Bran and Co. And puts on a cloak on later to conceal his body and face to frighten them less/not confuse him with other WW.

  • I can’t find the post now but I read something about Varys (the poster may have been Satin). I won’t bother putting spoilers (a) because every time I try it fails and (b) I don’t think anybody reads Dennis Wheatley books anymore – though avert your eyes if you do. Anyway in the days when I was a younger and more beautiful crone than I am now there was a novel by the aforesaid Dennis Wheatley (a deceased British author who wrote black magic and spy novels among other genres) called “The Eunuch of Stamboul”. It was if I remember correctly a spy novel and I can’t recall that much of the plot but I do remember that after the death of the eunuch it turned out the character was one of a pair of twins and the “eunuch” was actually a woman, though obviously not a very rexy-sexy one. I don’t think it’s very likely that Varys is a woman in disguise to be honest.

  • This scene was cool even if it lacked Coldhands:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJivQG1ziGQ

    One very awesome detail is that one of the shots, around 1:08, is seen from the point of view of the tree (as in, Bloodraven is watching). It makes me super excited to see that plotline unfold in season 4, along with the sets and characters and costumes it introduces. I can’t wait to see how the show handled treeman.

  • OldeCrone,

    The best of us have considered the Varys-is-a-woman theory, and the best of us cast it away for utter bullshit :)
    That said, with GRRM… who knows

  • I am still unsure if the first shot is Winterfell or Harrenhall. If it’s Winterfell, I think we aren’t going to see the actual Moat Cailin, but Winterfell would take its place instead. I kind of hope it’s Harrenhall because getting to Winterfell this early means Theon’s great escape will happen in season 5, which is IMO too early and leaves GRRM no chance at all to finish first.

  • jentario:

    I kind of hope it’s Harrenhall because getting to Winterfell this early means Theon’s great escape will happen in season 5, which is IMO too early and leaves GRRM no chance at all to finish first.

    He has no chance of finishing first at this point anyway. In any case, they have to put the interests of the show first, and I sincerely doubt that they would ever slow down the story line for George’s sake. The escape is a natural endpoint to that characters arc for Season 5, I don’t see how it could be dragged out into season 6.

  • OldeCrone,

    I’ve seen that theory as well, but the one I’ve actually mentioned was “Varys is a merman.” I swear I’ve seen that one, too. Varys being a woman is pretty likely compared to that. :D

    My favourites are clearly X is Azor Ahai/TPTWP, X+Y=Z, and X is still alive/a faceless man/warged into Z. Robbwind is canon, you guys!

  • jentario:
    OldeCrone,

    The best of us have considered the Varys-is-a-woman theory, and the best of us cast it away for utter bullshit :)
    That said, with GRRM… who knows

    Well I was referring to a different book by a different writer and did say I didn’t think it was that likely (that Varys was a lady). I haven’t read a lot of the theories on ASOI&F to be honest – I do remember that the (how can I put this without “spoiling”) the “What if a certain party eloped with a certain other party and a certain yet other party is their child” thought came into my mind when I was fairly new to the series and then one discovers that just about everyone has had the same thought. Whether it is the right thought or not, I can’t say.

  • OldeCrone,

    well, there is that one that seems unlikely not to be canon. As for the others… who knows. GRRM has so many archetypes in these books, I wouldn’t be too surprised if we get a few more “X is actually the child of Z” or “Y’s mother/father is actually from [important family/House].” It is a bit like a huge soap opera in these aspects (especially the generation around Robert’s Rebellion, where everyone seems to have been in love/had sex with at least one person who loved someone else).

  • OldeCrone,

    I figured it out too. I thought I was so fucking smart until I saw the 2500000000 threads on it. And here I am, trying to make a White Walker into Coldhands. God damnit…

  • House de Laguna,

    Stop with the silly non cannon theories. D&D have not shied away from the big points in the books. Sorry but that is Shae in Tywins bed. Tyrion will kill Shae and Tywin. The end

  • Abyss,

    I sort of solved my GIF problem using the animated PNG format. The picture quality is much better now. For comparison:

    Brienne as GIF
    Brienne as animated PNG (I had to rename it to .gif, otherwise minus.com doesn’t play the animation for some reason, but it is still an animated PNG.)

    Problems:

    1. The animation runs at half speed, even tough I set the delay between frames to 50 ms, which is the right speed for the human eye if you want smooth animations. (I used APNG Assembler 2.8 and set the delay to 50/1000 of a second).

    2. The animation only plays in Firefox, not in Chrome, even with a plug-in that is supposed to resolve that.

    – Sorry for all the tech talk, but maybe someone wants to give me some feedback, particularly about the problems? It would be really nice, if I could get this working, the quality is just so much better. :)

  • jentario:
    OldeCrone,

    I figured it out too. I thought I was so fucking smart until I saw the 2500000000 threads on it. And here I am, trying to make a White Walker into Coldhands. God damnit…

    I don’t think you’re unsmart for figuring it out, actually. It’s not a lame secret at all; it’s just that the internet gives us the possibility to connect and I bet 20 rabid fans could figure out all the books’ mysteries between them, provided GRRM gave significant hints (and we all know he really likes to do that).

    Of course, these correct answers then would be crushed under the collective nonsense we all produce when it’s late,or we’re bored, or the wait for new book/show material has been too long. ;)

  • Turncloak:
    House de Laguna,

    Stop with the silly non cannon theories. D&D have not shied away from the big points in the books. Sorry but that is Shae in Tywins bed. Tyrion will kill Shae and Tywin. The end

    Perhaps, i couldn’t remember where he got the crossbow or why tywin Lannister would have one

  • cosca,

    If GRRM releases TWOW before season 5, he has a chance, however slim, and an early 2015 release not completely out of the question. I think denying him of that chance when it really isn’t necessary would be a bad move. Either way, I think D&D have slowed down arcs before and they could easily do it again, especially if other arcs are moving at a leisurely pace. King’s Landing in season 3, for instance is really slow and the show has done it many times when they had to deal with chronology issues (Stannis’s season 3 and apparently 4, Theon’s season 3, Jon’s season 3/4…). It’s not that I don’t think Theon’s escape should be in season 5, it’s that I don’th think it’s reasonable to believe that Stannis’s march to Deepwood and subsequently to Winterfell after at least half a season at the Wall will take only one season. Of course it’s possible that they will make Theon escape before Stannis arrives, but that would make little sense. If they rush everything, it won’t make season 5 better IMO.

    Here are my predictions for where season 5 will split off: (read, predictions and not what I want to see):
    -Dany: the Daznak Pit, in the finale
    -Tyrion: at Volantis with Jorah
    -Victarion: on the way from Westeros
    -Jon: not sure… the Pink Letter will be much better as a mid season 6 moment but that is just opinion
    -Brienne: at Stoneheart
    -Jamie: after the Riverrun thing
    -Cersei: after being imprisoned
    -Arya: after her first kill, Dareon/Pyp
    -Bran: a tree
    -Sansa: leaving the Eyrie? not sure if that will happen in the show…
    -The Griffs: outside of Volantis, meeting the Golden Company
    -Arianne: Vengeance, Justice, Fire and Blood
    -Asha: with Stannis, marching to Winterfell
    -Theon: escaping… or not
    -Davos: on a boat
    -Sam: on a ship with Oldtown in the distance. But if this arc is even slightly unimportant to the overall story, it’ll get cut
    -Aeron, Quentyn Areo: cut

  • jentario,

    Wow, what a riveting season…But at least George will have one more year to go to conventions and run his cinema, right? They aren’t denying him anything, he’s had plenty of chances to actually do his job.

  • jentario:
    it’s that I don’t think it’s reasonable to believe that Stannis’s march to Deepwood and subsequently to Winterfell after at least half a season at the Wall will take only one season.

    Deepwood Motte will almost certainly be cut. Stannis can just march on Winterfell directly.

  • my predictions for season 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

    I think they are underestimating its grandeur and there’s going to be a lot more material to cover in the last 2 books. if it continues in its epic nature, and the actors (especially the kids), can commit to the show for that long, it may make it to 8 or 9 seasons. The sales, demand and source material is blatant. Anyway, this is what I would like to see.

    Season 4
    Purple Wedding, Yara captured (maybe killed) by Stannis in one of Melisandre’s lighting fast soujourns, Sansa up to Lysa’s death would be a great way to end the season, Lady Stoneheart birthed witnessed by Nymeria then killing Frey boy, Podrick and Brienne go off together beginning their journey, Jeyne Poole????, yes Coldhands, but we may not have seen him. Bran beginning his time with the children of forest, Jon up to when Stannis arrives. Tyrion escapes ends season. Maybe some other special surprises. Patchface?

    Season 5
    Rickon and Osha’s adventures (Bran’s year off), Stannis story year. Varamyr would be fun. Tommen’s weak rule and Cercei micromanaging, Taena Merriweather, and new counsil. Dany’s mismanaging and being captured not by jhaqo, but QOTHO (he is alive! he only got his face cut if you pay attention, then disappears). Or maybe Xaro. Also, important introduction of Arianne and Sand Snakes and Doran and Quentin. Myrcella. Introduction of Greyjoy brother/s. Kevan and Pycell die. Cercei imprisoned. Brienne’s journey up to Lady Stoneheart. Jamie’s journey. Lancel. There’s just so much. But I do think this will end Dany’s current timeline and one or both of the sisters (Arya or Sansa) may be nominal to make room for large number of new characters. Last chance for Patchface!

    Season 6
    Tyrion’s journey, Arya at Braavos, and/or whatever is next for Sansa. More focus on the south. Mance’s adventure up to his imprisonment (or maybe dying). Reek escaping with Jeyne arriving at the wall. Walk of Punishment up to Mountain 2.0, lots of stuff at sea. Tyrion with Griffs, Quentin’s convoy. Everyone arriving at Meereen in its chaos. Jumping into WoW material with the north, maybe. Brienne and Jamie’s duel. Focus on Greyjoys and krakken/water stuff.

    let me say at this point, that in order for all these new characters to be introduced, there’s going to have to be a large shift similar to the one in the books required. (giving characters a season off, would be much easier than just a couple scenes in terms of financing such a huge ensemble) If this is the case, they will not be able to finish the story in season 7. Unless they’re really committed to making a movie, or a netflix type series in the future, but unlikely. HBO is probably waiting to see if they can afford to keep up with the story. That said, if they pull the plug, season 7 would be the best spot to end with a bunch of cliffhangers that may end Winds of Winter, with a movie or something for the final stories. But as purists, i think D&D may push on.

    Season 7
    Battle between boltons and wall folk (maybe breaking the ice lake, maybe white walkers finally arrive and destroy the wall. (They’ve been marching so slowly). I think we’ll finally understand what is actually north of the wall, and how/why people are being resurrected. The horns and swords may be more important and I feel that the dragons in Meereen will change allegiance to the one who has the horn. Quentin may die, lots of people may die. Kings Landing gets a wake up call and WINTER ARRIVES.

    Season 8 & 9
    May be season 8, then movie. In any case, bittersweet endings, some starks reunited. Cercei flees south with Tommen to find Myrcella once threat of North is clear, or Tommen kills Cercei and runs away. Everyone fights Wights and most fail. Bran somehow saves the day, or not. Sansa holds north in her name but her unknowing may fail her, or not. AzAh is revealed, or not. Other people will sit the iron throne (quoting GRRM). Benjen is revealed, Jojen dies. Howland reveals things. Arya gets her vengence, on those whose names she does not know (Melisandre, other people). May be killed by Jon Snow in glamour. Just going off the deep end here. Anyway, this was fun. But somehow I see Sansa sitting that throne, somehow. And Rickon feels more important than he seems, too. I feel that Varys and Littlefinger will become increasingly powerful. And there is something very important under the sea.. And at Valyria. A Doom? My overall theory is that NORTH is actually SOUTH (sotheross) and we may see the white walkers somehow attack from south simultaneously. And Asshai is across from Casterly Rock (this may be important) and the Warlocks have a hand in it all as well.

    thats all, just having fun. let me know if you agree

  • Ok, after another re-watch I’m still confused about the WW at the end, specifically as to what it’s holding in it’s left hand. Kinda looks like parchment and my first thought was “a map!?”, Ice zombies needs maps now.

    Also, I’m not sure what I did but the copy I dl’d has some whack subtitles..

  • Sean C.,

    But Deepwood (it doesn’t really have to be Deepwood, as long as it’s Stannis vs Yara) was a great scene, and was a good action moment which season 5 will lack. Also, how else would you put Stannis and Yara together? Please don’t say it’s her speak with Mel in the season 4 trailer, because it can just as easily be Osha’s bush (and is probably the woman that gets burned in the trailer, anyway). Also, removing Deepwood means you are removing Jon’s advice to Stannis (which was an important character development moment for Jon, and the first stepping stone to his downfall). All in all, removing it would be foolish and destructive to the story.

    You seem to want to rush through ADWD and AFFC, cutting away both good scenes and bad. I don’t like that approach.

  • cosca,

    I won’t rush to judge him. He may yet surprise us and release TWOW early-ish. But just the fact I have to say this proves your point. Hopefully the fact that his story is under threat of being overtaken will motivate him to write faster (as in, painfully slow rather than a dead stop).

  • Season 5
    Rickon and Osha’s adventures (Bran’s year off), Stannis story year. Varamyr would be fun. Tommen’s weak rule and Cercei micromanaging, Taena Merriweather, and new counsil. Dany’s mismanaging and being captured not by jhaqo, but QOTHO (he is alive! he only got his face cut if you pay attention, then disappears). Or maybe Xaro. Also, important introduction of Arianne and Sand Snakes and Doran and Quentin. Myrcella. Introduction of Greyjoy brother/s. Kevan and Pycell die. Cercei imprisoned. Brienne’s journey up to Lady Stoneheart. Jamie’s journey. Lancel. There’s just so much. But I do think this will end Dany’s current timeline and one or both of the sisters (Arya or Sansa) may be nominal to make room for large number of new characters. Last chance for Patchface!

    I don’t forsee Daenerys being “caught” by the Dothraki at the end of ADwD. After all Drogon is right behind her and any attempt on his mother with end with scorched Dothraki. Qaithe (sp?) said to go forward you must go back. The Dothraki follow the “strongest rider” and not for nothing, but Dragon rider trumps Horse rider every day. I think she will unite the hordes (or at least have the following of the one that stumbles across her) and return to Mereen and literally let lose. Kill them all then head to Westeros like she originally was going to, with her Dothraki army and her Unsullied in tow.

  • This is just association of ideas – I don’t think a certain party is a merman but it made me think about the legend of the silkies (seal people). Whether there are similar legends in cultures other than Celtic I don’t know. Here is a link to a wikipedia entry on the subjecthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selkie. Now I don’t think Varys is a Silky for one moment. Some years ago I heard a Scottish folk singer (whose name I can’t recall) singing traditional Scots songs and one was a ballad about a Silky. She had an anecdote about how in her village there was a woman who walked a little strangely – must have had out-pointing feet – but of course children are not always kind and jokes used to be made about this woman being a Silky because of her method of walking. Why did people think Varys was a merman incidentally, was it because of the remark about the big fish eating little fish but he continued swimming? I came so late to this party I’ve missed so many of the theories. I’m not saying I don’t sometimes think “What if so-and-so person ended up with so-and-so other person” etc though I keep them to myself (I’m probably wrong anyway).

  • OldeCrone,

    I don’t know if other cultures have seal people in particular, but there are lots of similar stories about women who are really kind of fairies? Swan maidens come to mind, and Melusine, who was part snake. Men always fall desperately in love with them and steal the item that turns them into an animal (pelt for the selkie, feathers for the swan maidens), or they are forbidden to look at them at a certain day, and then do it anyway (that’s for Melusine, who also had crazy awesome monster kids, btw).

    Unfortunately, I don’t know who came up with Varys the merman. I think it has something to do with the songs Shireen’s crazy fool is always singing in the books, but I’m not sure.

  • jentario:
    cosca,
    Here are my predictions for where season 5 will split off: (read, predictions and not what I want to see):
    -Dany: the Daznak Pit, in the finale
    -Tyrion: at Volantis with Jorah
    -Victarion: on the way from Westeros
    -Jon: not sure… the Pink Letter will be much better as a mid season 6 moment but that is just opinion
    -Brienne: at Stoneheart
    -Jamie: after the Riverrun thing
    -Cersei: after being imprisoned
    -Arya: after her first kill, Dareon/Pyp
    -Bran: a tree
    -Sansa: leaving the Eyrie? not sure if that will happen in the show…
    -The Griffs: outside of Volantis, meeting the Golden Company
    -Arianne: Vengeance, Justice, Fire and Blood
    -Asha: with Stannis, marching to Winterfell
    -Theon: escaping… or not
    -Davos: on a boat
    -Sam: on a ship with Oldtown in the distance. But if this arc is even slightly unimportant to the overall story, it’ll get cut
    -Aeron, Quentyn Areo: cut

    I agree with this for the most part. The only things I would disagree on would be:
    – I think Aeron is the only PoV character at any risk of being cut completely. It wouldn’t be too hard for them to have him (and Areo) as a featured extra, though. Quentyn’s story is almost made for tv and it would only take ~3 scenes (5 at the most) to cover all of his pre-Daenerys stuff starting in Dorne in it’s entirety. I don’t see them cutting him simply because he is too easy to include and adds so much drama.
    I think they are more likely to end Sam’s stuff with him departing Braavos, leaving the Oldtown stuff for S6. It really does depend on when they have the LC election, though. If the have it in S4 and send Sam off at the start of S5 then he could definitely get further. However, I think the LC election will be at the start of S5, and Sam will be sent off early-mid way through the season. In that case I don’t think it is really possible for Sam to get further than Oldtown.
    I think Doran’s speech will coincide with Quentyn arriving in the siege camps outside Meereen for dramatic affect (maybe ~5×07), so I think that Arianne’s stuff will end with Balon Swann arriving with Gregor’s head.

  • Ser Tahu,

    I don’t see Quentyn appearing in the show before the last AFFC Arianne chapter is reached and it’s not exactly something you can introduce in the last two episodes (is it?). I always assumed the entirety of the Quentyn plot will be in season 6, with the Daznak Pit happening around episode 3 but the speed of season 5 crushed my hopes for that. It’s more likely than not that Quentyn’s role (freeing the dragons) will just be given to a high profile Meereen character. Maybe even Grey Worm.

    I agree that Oldtown will only really be in seasson 6, there’s no way they’ll have that many new sets and castings just in season 5 when it can easily be delayed a bit. Areo and Aeron can work as featured extras, but I doubt they’ll have their own scenes.

  • jentario,
    My theory has long been this: they will keep Quentyn’s mission ambiguous for most of the season. The audience, by default, will side with Arianne and believe that Quentyn and Doran are plotting to steal her birthright, increasing the impact of her storyline and the Queenmaker. Quentyn’s arrival in Slaver’s Bay would then take place immediately after Doran’s speech, making the true nature of Doran’s scheming and Quentyn’s mission an epic reveal. It would allow them to show Quentyn’s journey (which, as I said, would only take 3-5 scenes) and develop his character in a way that wouldn’t detract from Arianne’s story. In fact, I believe that may have been GRRM’s original plan when AFfC and ADwD were one book.

    And I absolutely agree when it comes to Areo and Aeron. The chances of them having their own scenes is slim to none. Aero essentially only is a PoV because Doran knows too much and therefore can’t be a PoV, while Aeron’s role so far could easily be divided between Victarion and YarAsha. If Aeron becomes significant later on, or if the Darkstar hunt turns out to be important, then they could potentially get a small number of scenes in S6, though.

  • Ser Tahu,

    I don’t think we’ll see anything of Quentyn’s journey. We might see him leaving Sunspear early in the season only to effectively disappear and then reaching the Slaver’s Bay at the end of the season. That makes sense, what you suggest. I guess there’s still a chance for Quentyn…

    Looking back at the trailer, could the White Walker scene be the White Walkers massing around Hardhome? It’s a bit early, but I can’t think of anything else. Either way, I am still preaching for Jon to take Cottor Pyke’s role in season 5 and head out to save some Wildlings (preferably led by Tormund, but the fact that he’s attacking Castle Black from the South makes that less likely… if he dies this season I’ll be pissed). Anyway, I definately like your idea of Jon getting shanked in the middle of season 5 and revived (or what have you) in the season finale, which leaves the battle in the Ice for around episode 3 or 4 of season 6 (since the Pink Letter is dependent on it)… I guess Theon could bide his time in Stannis’s camp for three episodes with given TWOW material.

    One fear that has been rising in me with every new piece of info is that Brienne might complete her journey this season, and the original (and awesome) Stoneheart reveal will be cut entirely. If that happens, Stoneheart will automatically be painted as an evil character, so I really hope we get the Frey hanging. The fact that Brienne will definitely have some scenes in the riverlands as well as a fight scene where she “bites someone’s ear off and spits it in their face” this early is weird.

  • Is Bronn going to replace Sir Ilyn Payne as Jaime’s secret sword trainer for his left hand?? Did you guys see that brief scene?

  • Prince of Pentos:
    Is Bronn going to replace Sir Ilyn Payne as Jaime’s secret sword trainer for his left hand?? Did you guys see that brief scene?

    Very likely, and, yes! Ilyn Payne’s actor is seriously ill and spending the time he has left making music, and I guess they didn’t want to recast the character out of respect. At the same time, Bronn has little to do going forward, so it makes sense to pair him off with Jaime.

  • jentario,

    I think there’s a decent chance that they will show it (minus the Astapor diversion). In addition to Quentyn they would only need to cast two other characters: Gerris and Tatters (both of whom are likely to have an important role in TWoW), and as I said they could to it in 3-5 short scenes that would all complement other stories and add a lot to the season:
    5×01 – A conversation with Doran where he gets his mission. I think such a scene could start half way through the conversation (keeping the nature of the mission unknown), and that the conversation could end with Ellaria Sand arriving with Oberyn’s corpse leading into an Ellaria-Doran scene. So basically it could be our introductory scene to the Dornish, with Ellaria acting as the link to existing stories.
    5×02 – OPTIONAL: Arianne confronts Quentyn as he prepares to leave. D&D love scenes between characters that never interact in the books, so I could see them inventing a scene like this to develop Arianne and Quentyn.
    5×03 or 04 – OPTIONAL: The battle with the pirates in the stepstones that we get through flashbacks in Quentyn’s first chapter. They could cast Arch as a featured extra and kill him in this scene (essentially replacing Cletus), to add much needed action and drama to the first half of S5. It could also be a way to emphasise Quentyn’s sense of duty.
    5×05 – Signing with the Windblown in Volantis. I think 5×05 is extremely likely to contain the Queenmaker, so this scene could really complement that story; Quentyn would appear to have gained an army and Arianne is about to crown Myrcella, so new viewers would expect an epic clash with major effects on Tommen’s reign in the future… and then it all goes wrong when Areo steps off the boat. Also, it would serve as an introduction to Tatters (who could also easily replace Brown Ben in S6).
    5×07 – Arriving in the siege camps, getting his infiltration mission from Tatters and discussing his plan with Gerris. If it is immediately after Doran’s speech it would be an epic reveal, with viewers realising that they (and Arianne) completely misunderstood the situation, and the characters, the whole time
    .

  • Ser Tahu,

    That’s fine, but I think Quentyn getting his own scenes early in season 5 will be too much for casual viewers who would already be struggling with an abundance of storylines. We’ll see…

  • Hand of the Kingslayer,
    Yeah, that’s the one problem I can see. Although I keep swaying back and forth on it, at the moment I think YarAsha will end up back in the Iron Islands at the end of S4, and after S4 viewers will definitely remember her, so the new characters there shouldn’t be problematic. But that still leaves us with Arianne and Quentyn, two new storylines being carried by completely new characters. That’s why I think showing Quentyn’s journey, and doing it in a way that makes it at least seem tied in to Arianne’s plotting, is key to making Dorne work on screen because then it would feel like just one new storyline to the viewers, and D&D have already shown that can be done (Stannis and co in S2).

  • Ser Tahu,

    I’m inclined to agree with you on Yara, since I think we’ll need her reaction to Euron as a person, instead of hearing that Balon died and soandso seized his thrown.
    But in Quentyn’s and Arianne’s cases, even on your list of a few scenes, this seems like rather a lot, and I don’t know if they give this much screentime to two new characters – since Arianne will need her own scenes as well, and Doran will need to be introduced, etc, etc. I could see a situation where Arianne’s plot basically gets cut to Myrcella being wounded in revenge for Oberyn’s death, and Quentyn shows up once along the way on Tyrion’s journey, and then in Meereen, but that’s about it.
    Another way to give a Dornish character some prominence could be beefing up Alleras/Sarella’s role – at least she would have a familiar character at her side, and there’s lots of intrigue already possible with what we know of Oldtown. Of course, this depends on them doing Sam’s trip to Oldtown, which I wouldn’t bet on, either.

  • Satin,
    The thing is that although it sounds like a lot on paper, the majority of those scenes would only take ~3 mintues each, so in a 60 minute episode that isn’t very much. The same is true of Arianne’s scenes, although there would likely be more of them (especially in the episode with the Queenmaker). In total the addition wouldn’t be any bigger than Stannis in S2.

  • Ser Tahu,

    hmm. I’m just sceptical I guess. Stannis just seemed more attached to the situation in Westeros from the beginning. Maybe it’s because Dorne got introduced so late, but its characters mostly feel like an afterthought to me. Also, since Dorne is being introduced via Oberyn and Ellaria, who judging from the casting might have a bigger role, it seems wiser to me to introduce one or two of his daughters, instead of his niece and nephew who in the end have nothing to do with him. It would make Oberyn less of a throwaway character, too.

    I’d probably merge Arianne with a couple of Sand Snakes and give Quentyn a slighty bigger role, so that people at least know him before he gets to be Dragon roast. It’s a pity to loose the heiress of Dorne as an idea, but so far it seems her main job will be marrying Aegon and adding a new chapter to “the Martells make stupid poliltical alliances” anyway. A pot plant could do that.

    (Yes, I am disappointed in Arianne so far, why do you ask? XP I feel she could have been so badass. Oh well. )

  • Satin,
    I think the key to making Dorne seem relevant before Doran’s speech is Myrcella. After being in, like, 3 scenes then disappearing for 2 seasons I fear that the viewers will have forgotten about her. If they build her up by name dropping her throughout season 4, though (which shouldn’t be hard to do through Cersei after Joffrey dies and through Oberyn/Ellaria), then I think it could work. If people remember who she is, then the plot to crown her and raise Dorne against the throne/Tommen shouldn’t be hard for viewers to get into, and it wouldn’t be too foreign in a show that is noted for presenting all sides of each conflict. And if they can make Arianne’s plot relevant, then I think that Quentyn’s plot will also be relevant by extension (assuming they keep the nature of his mission secret until Doran’s speech, as I stated above. They could just make it known from the beginning, but I think that would weaken Arianne’s plot). Before Doran’s speech, viewers would likely see Arianne as this feminist icon that is fighting for equality, like Daenerys, and is opposed by her father, who appears to be loyal to the Lannisters, and his dutiful son (that is vaguely reminiscent of Ned) who is trying to hire sellswords, presumable to support Tommen. Then after Doran’s speech everything would be revealed and Doran and Quentyn will likely by supported by most of the viewers.

    As for your proposed changes to the family tree – it could work, but I personally wouldn’t like it because I am quite a fan of the Dornish from the books, especially Doran and Quentyn. However, considering they are even keeping the Dornish titles as Princes and Princesses in the show, at the risk of confusing viewers, instead of simplifying it and making them Lords and Ladies, I doubt there will be any significant changes to the family tree aside from reducing the number of Sand Snakes.

  • Ser Tahu,

    I just hope they can work it out satisfactory. I see your point about Myrcella, but I think there are still so many characters to follow that are more important to viewers than her, and we are dropping comparatively few storylines this year – Tyrion’s life in K-L is over, but he’ll move on to Essos, Sansa will be in the Vale, and all the deaths are important people, but not really people who had plots centered around them. It’s different than Robb, Talisa and Catelyn, or Ned, or even Renly. Jorah might get his own thing for a while, Brienne and Pod will be on their own, Davos and Jaime, too, we’ll get the new and exciting adventures of Yara, who knows what Gendry will do, and if the stonehearted BwB will be more present. Margaery will be more prominent than in the books, I wouldn’t be surprised if Olenna stayed in K-L, and last but not least, we’ll likely get some form of Greyjoy succession storyline, and possibly Sam going south. And that leaves out the storylines I’m guessing will be most prominent, namely Jon and Dany, and of course Arya in Braavos. Could be that I’m wrong, but I just don’t see Dorne getting that big.

    I like some parts of Dorne with reservations. Doran is very intriguing, and Quentyn is at least likable. Arianne is a cliché that didn’t quite take off for me, and the Sand Snakes are too many to really keep apart – I mean, I am aware why the one I’m most interested in and whose name I can remember most easily is Sarella. So, I just don’t know. I don’t want them to drop Doran, and the Martells being a sort of wild card as enemies to the Lannisters and possible allies to Dany, but I’m preparing myself for their plots to be changed, and mostly shortened a lot.

  • Satin,
    All are very valid points. There is a reason Benioff said that season 5 gives him nightmares :P. I think the key will be to cut all the subplots and focus on the key moments of each storyline. So cut Taena Merryweather and the Stokeworths. Cut the war with Qarth and endless lusting after Daario. Cut the food shortage and the Weeper. If the diversions are cut and they stick to the key points, I think D&D can manage to fit in every major storyline.

    And I agree when it comes to the Sand Snakes. For me I can remember Tyene and Sarella, the rest are indistinguishable.

  • Ser Tahu,
    I’m already excited to find out how they’ll manage that. At least in case of Daario I suspect there will be less pining and more action…

    jentario,

    mine is Asha, and then Brienne.

  • Jen@House Stark,

    yes it was cold hands….that was a living horse…the evil others ride dead horses…i know coldhands rides an elk but how the hell are they gonna be able to get a fuckin ride-able elk on the series?…of course that was coldhands..fuck yeah

  • Ser Tahu,

    I even think that AFFC is the best written of the books so far. ASOS is the most exciting, but where writing is concerned, AFFC is better. Tastes differ, would be boring if they didn’t. I liked the atmosphere in her chapters (apparently I dig bleakness) and it was interesting to find out more about her personality and the way she sees the world. I do agree that fairly little of that can be adequately translated to TV, though, which is why AFFC/ADWD will be difficult to adapt.

    (Of course, ADWD greatly suffers from obviously having been finished in a hurry and not thoroughly edited at that. I hate it when authors get so famous, their publishers get too timid to insist on ferocious editing. That book could have lost hundreds of pages of banner and food descriptions alone.)

  • Satin,
    Oh, I agree there, I think AFfC and ADwD contain some of the best writing in the entire series. In fact, I think Theon’s ADwD chapters were the best written so far. The main problem that I had with Brienne’s chapters is that they felt stagnant with little-no character development. At least Cersei had her downward spiral into insanity.

    I just hope that TWoW (and ADoS) have the brilliant writing of the first two books and the pace of the first three.

    Oh, and just for the record, I like descriptions of banners :P.

  • Don’t care: I don’t think that’s Coldhands as described in the books. But is a different take on Coldhands ala Daario in the show compared to books. I think this is probably due to budget issues. Maybe CGI elk was too expensive considering how expensive this season looks like it will be.

    This makes no sense. The argument about cost and CGI and even makeup makes the most sense–if we get a Coldhands–having a dude wrapped in NW blacks and a hood over his face on a horse. This would be the easiest, the most cost-efficient, close enough to the books to please the fans and save on CGI for things like big-ass dragons.

    And there are plenty of places for a WW to pop up this season, given what they’re doing in the show. Attacking the remaining Brothers at Craster’s Keep, especially since they’re doing the creepy baby sacrifices, apparently. Also the fight leading to the cave with Bran & co. As others have said.

    As far as why CH is interesting/desired etc., the idea that it could be Benjen is only one aspect–though the most sentimental and full of wishful thinking. The concept that something touched by the Walkers, a Wight in this case, can overcome the Walker’s influence (even if aided by Bloodraven) is infinitely intriguing and raises a lot of moral ambiguity. Up to that point, the Wights have been nothing but mindless corpses bent on destruction. Introducing a Wight that not only acts on behalf of the living but speaks and thinks and relates to Bran along his journey to (we assume) defeat this rising tide of evil makes things more complicated. And awesome. Not to mention he’s a total badass. :)

  • Ser Tahu,

    she doesn’t get a lot of character development, but that doesn’t necessarily make her a bad character – we don’t know her at all before, we only know how others would see her, so seeing things from her POV actually makes a difference, She actually has a downward spiral, too, though, culminating in her breakdown on the quiet isle, where she confesses that she never felt enough to be a proper woman or a proper man. The elder brother urges her to turn around, and she considers it, only to move on, and then she has to confront one of the people she felt she let down – Stoneheart. And I think it’s important that she, like Ned before her, decides against her honour and gives into the BWB’s demands – yelling “sword,” thus indicating that she will betray Jaime – in order to save an innocent, i.e. Podrick. That’s actually more chivalrous than her by the book, rigid adherence to the principle before. But other than that, she ends up pretty much in the darkest place she possibly can.

    Banners are totally fine. Description of every tiny banner detail over five pages are not. ;P And we really don’t need to intimately meet every piece of ham the Night’s Watch has still left.

    ETA: Cersei’s chapters are hilarious, btw. I don’t much like her as a character in the books, since I find her quite flat, but she’s so horrible, her chapters are basically a scream. Maybe I have a strange sense of humour, I don’t know.

  • When ‘Bad’ wins its second consecutive Best Drama Emmy in September,
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