Lena Headey on Cersei, Season 4 and beyond
By Ours is the Fury on in Interview.

Cersei Lannister
Lena Headey is promoting up a storm this month, with the release of 300: Rise of an Empire (in which she returns as the Spartan queen Gorgo) and of course, the fourth season of Game of Thrones arriving on April 6th. In recent interviews, the actress has been sharing her insight into her character, plus some great teasers for the coming season and hints of what we can expect in the future for Cersei Lannister.

First up: Lena talks with Moviefone about her personal take on the polarizing Queen Cersei.

I think Cersei for me, in particular, encompasses everything that I find interesting about someone and there’s so much to come from her. It’s like she’s a bit of a backwards puzzle and there are pieces, and when she builds, you’ll be like, “Ahh, that’s why she is who she is.” You know what I mean? It’s in reverse. Umm, so I find her – on the full spectrum – she kind of possesses everything that is interesting as a human being. And I think that there’s never darkness without a bit of light, but we’ve yet to really see that from her.

She goes on to say:

I think she’s incredibly frightened. That’s at her core, that’s how I see her. She’s kind of driven by paranoia and fear. She’s complicated.

Highlights from more interviews are beneath the cut, but Unsullied viewers should beware! Hints and major spoilers for the future are hidden under the Read More.

In an interview with Vulture, Headey elaborated on Cersei’s mindset this season and where that may take her:

I find her pretty delightful, Cersei. And I kind of understand why she does what she does. And yeah, yeah, this season is pretty much the beginning of her downfall. She’s on her way, she’s really climbing the stairs, and then she will eventually fall off the edge. Which is exciting! It’s endlessly exciting to me. She is just constant change. [...] He arrives back, and he’s the most important relationship she’s got, aside from her children, and everything’s changed! Because she loves the one thing that she’s held in admiration. She thinks, I have everything, but I don’t have that. She never learned how to execute a sword and all of that stuff. And it’s a very complicated relationship, obviously for many reasons. And it’s quite heartbreaking, their journey.

On the ah- unusual reunion scene Jaime and Cersei shared in  A Storm of Swords (that looked as though it might be cut with Jaime turning up in King’s Landing in season 3), Headey confirms that the book’s reunion scene will appear in some fashion.

Well, I can tell you that will, uh … that’s in there. It’s horrendous. It’s kind of crazy. Interesting to film, because we were … she’s in deep pain, and he wants her, because he missed her, and he needs to know she wants him. It’s just a weird, fucked-up moment. It’s quite mad!

Blastr had a chat with Lena Headey as well, and touched upon a scene that actually would not be in season 4, but sometime in the future- the Penance Walk Cersei must undergo in A Dance with Dragons. Lena tells Blastr she thinks it’s “going to be next season” and shares her feelings on Cersei’s painfully exposed Walk through King’s Landing.

I think, you know, it’s interesting, that part for me. I’ve been very adamant about keeping her kind of clothed because I think that’s part of her power. And she can still be sort of sexual and weird and female, but she doesn’t have to be naked. And I think it makes for a more shocking disempowering moment when this happens. So, we’ll see. I’m a little scared.”

Ours is the Fury: I love how much Lena loves her character. She recognizes her faults, but relishes everything about playing Cersei. She’s going to have a fantastic time with her downfall.


132 Comments

  1. Salty Dornishman
    Posted March 7, 2014 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

    Ho-dor!!

    I really do love Lena’s portrayal of Cersi, and I really can’t wait to see how the next couple of seasons flesh out her character.

  2. Arya Stark
    Posted March 7, 2014 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    god I have so much respect for her as an actress. she’s so amazing and its so endearing how much she genuinely loves cersei. you can really see it in her performance too. hope she gets some recognition in the next few seasons because she’s so so talented

  3. Benjen_S
    Posted March 7, 2014 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

    Could be a significant piece of information for the adaptation of AFFC/ADWD and the timeline of season 5… if Cersei does her penance walk, that means they’re reaching the end of ADWD next season, or at least the end of her storyline. Of course, this might just be the speculation of Lena Headey.

  4. inlimbo
    Posted March 7, 2014 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    Is that still post purple wedding? Cersei looks tired and haggard in that picture mourning a certain someone could be the reason

  5. A-Gone
    Posted March 7, 2014 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    You’re a wanker number 99999999999999999999999999

  6. Arya Stark
    Posted March 7, 2014 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    inlimbo,

    i think its before the purpler wedding because she’s wearing red. i think its just an unflattering picture to be honest. in one of the behind the scenes videos, they showed a clip from the scene (that the picture is from) and she looked fine

  7. Ours is the Fury
    Posted March 7, 2014 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    It’s from a larger photo of Cersei talking to Jaime, so I think she just looks a little miserable because they’re having a serious moment.

  8. The Dragon Demands
    Posted March 7, 2014 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    I agree with Headey: it makes Cersei seem more powerful in some sense if she’s always clothed, even during sex scenes…..well, there’s the argument that a woman who is brazenly proud while naked is exuding utter confidence and strength (i.e. think of how Melisandre uses this to intimidate/dominate those around her)…

    …but really, that makes sense: if Cersei is always clothed *even in her sex scenes*, the nudity in the eventual Penance Walk will be all the more symbolic of how she’s been “shorn” of her defenses and power.

    On top of this, I like how costume designer Michele Clapton explained that Cersei always feels threatened, borderline paranoid, so her dress style is in multiple layers — giving the visual appearance of layers of armor (indeed, incorporating some metal armor here and there). This is in contrast to how Margaery Tyrell wears revealing outfits. So that just ties in really well: Cersei wears armor-like multi-layered clothing as if to shield herself from her enemies, visually the Penance Walk shows how low she’s fallen.

    Odd, the Penance Walk happens at the *very end* of A Dance With Dragons, and thus should be in Season 6, not Season 5.

  9. Ser Lucas Tyrell
    Posted March 7, 2014 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    Happy Women’s Day, Lena. And to each and every woman who’s actually reading this.

  10. Ser Lucas Tyrell
    Posted March 7, 2014 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

    I think you can see the details of the Sept of Baelor’s pillars in the scene where Jaime kisses her on the first trailer.

    http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/game-of-thrones-season-4-jaime-cersei.jpg

    http://media.sfx.co.uk/files/2013/04/game-of-thrones-3.04-and-now-his-watch-is-ended-Great-Sept-of-Baelor.png

    It can be in a completely different place though.

  11. ninabonita4
    Posted March 7, 2014 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    Lena, in my opinion, is not given enough credit for her role as Cersei. It is obvious how much passion she has for this character and we see that through her performances every season. I am always blown away by her and I can’t wait to see her in season 4!

  12. Emperor Cronos
    Posted March 7, 2014 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    The Dragon Demands:
    Odd, the Penance Walk happens at the *very end* of A Dance With Dragons, and thus should be in Season 6, not Season 5.

    Nope, they’re getting into Feast and Dance material this season. By the end of season 5, I expect them to be past the books and into entirely new material. I think Cercei’s penance walk is going to happen mid season 5, and her trial along with at least one of the Battles of Winterfell and Mereen are going to end that season. Season 6 is going to be entirely new material from the start, and season 7 will serve as the conclusion.

  13. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted March 7, 2014 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    She kicks ass. She’s so great on this show.

  14. acatlover
    Posted March 7, 2014 at 10:58 pm | Permalink

    Emperor Cronos: Nope, they’re getting into Feast and Dance material this season.By the end of season 5, I expect them to be past the books and into entirely new material.I think Cercei’s penance walk is going to happen mid season 5, and her trial along with at least one of the Battles of Winterfell and Mereen are going to end that season.Season 6 is going to be entirely new material from the start, and season 7 will serve as the conclusion.

    There is absolutely no reason to think any of that. They’re not going to make 2 books into less than 1 season. It’s much, much, MUCH more likely that Season 5 will conclude with Daznak’s Pit/all of AFFC and 2/3 of ADWD. You people are really annoying. Seriously. Give it a goddamn break.

  15. Ser Osis of Liver
    Posted March 7, 2014 at 11:37 pm | Permalink

    Well, if that SeptSex scene does indeed play out as depicted in AFfC, then I guess Game of Thrones really can be called a period piece.

  16. Reza
    Posted March 7, 2014 at 11:37 pm | Permalink

    She is great in GOT, but lets not even mention 300! That movie is a mess, Total BS!

  17. Emperor Cronos
    Posted March 7, 2014 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

    acatlover: There is absolutely no reason to think any of that. They’re not going to make 2 books into less than 1 season. It’s much, much, MUCH more likely that Season 5 will conclude with Daznak’s Pit/all of AFFC and 2/3 of ADWD. You people are really annoying. Seriously. Give it a goddamn break.

    http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/game-of-thrones-producers-say-season-3-as-big-as-were-going-to-get
    Books for and five are going to be about a season and a half, with the half being this season.
    We know for a fact that this season:
    Bran’s getting to Bloodraven, Theon’s getting to Moat Cailin, Dany’s dealing with the Sons of the Harpy and might marry Hizdar, Brienne is getting to the fight before Lady Stoneheart and might meet her, and Yara’s going after Theon, likely cutting out the Kingsmoot entirely. That’s at least a quarter of Feast and Dance this season, that we know about. They could do eight seasons as an absolute max, but I think it works better thematically and logistically with seven.

  18. Eugene Toussaint
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 12:30 am | Permalink

    Emperor Cronos,

    I really hope the show does not get into any unpublished material. I would not want the show spoiling the book in anyway and would probably stop watching if thats the direction it goes. =(

  19. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 12:58 am | Permalink

    Eugene Toussaint,

    I’ve lost faith in George. I doubt if he ever finishes the book series in time, if ever. I think TWOW may come out in late 2015, early 2016. So season 5 would have aired by the time the book is released. And that’s not even mentioning ADOS. No way George finishes before the show. Even if you take an optimistic approach and assume that the show has 8 seasons and George writes like the wind, I still don’t see it happening.

    2014 – Season 4(ASOS/AFFC/ADWD)
    2015 – Season 5(AFFC/ADWD/TWOW?)
    2016 – Season 6(ADWD?/TWOW)
    2017 – Season 7(TWOW/ADOS)
    2018 – Season 8(ADOS)

    Does anyone really believe George will have released the final 2 books by 2018? He’s going on 3 years since ADWD was released, and that is without a ‘Meereenese knot’. He needed to finish TWOW this year to have a chance to stay ahead of the show and that doesn’t seem likely.

  20. cosca
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 1:01 am | Permalink

    Eugene Toussaint,

    Honestly, you should start preparing yourself. Because it’s inevitable at this point.

  21. Chickenduck
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 1:21 am | Permalink

    Eugene Toussaint,

    There are a few fans who will stop watching when the show passes the books. At some point, it’s inevitable… Even if he gets TWoW out on time, he won’t get ADoS out in time for the series to end on screen.

    BUT BUT BUT… We live in hope that the rumours on the westeros forums are true, and GRRM is going to announce completion of the TWoW manuscript and a publication date at the S4 premiere event ;)

    And I can’t help but pronounce the book’s title as “Tee Wow” now.

  22. Emperor Cronos
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 1:28 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap, yeah it looks likely, especially since Winds isn’t coming out until 2016 at the earliest. http://whiteharbour.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/capture.png

    Eugene Toussaint, you might as well watch the show, since you won’t be able to avoid spoilers once the big events get revealed.

  23. Hear Me Roar
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 2:07 am | Permalink

    This sounds really promising. Great!
    And Lene gets her.

  24. Greatness Arrisessss
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 2:09 am | Permalink

    acatlover: There is absolutely no reason to think any of that. They’re not going to make 2 books into less than 1 season. It’s much, much, MUCH more likely that Season 5 will conclude with Daznak’s Pit/all of AFFC and 2/3 of ADWD. You people are really annoying. Seriously. Give it a goddamn break.

    Books 4 and 5 are ending with Season 5, get over it.

  25. Broken Wolf
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 2:54 am | Permalink

    I must say I’m looking forward to Cersei’s penance walk I’ve never seen Lena Headey naked. I bet she looks AMAZING. :D

  26. Greenjones
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 3:02 am | Permalink

    Broken Wolf,

    Well, you don’t have to wait that long, she’s been naked in 300 and Aberdeen and plenty of other movies. There are plenty of online resources for that sort of thing but I won’t specify further so as to seem at least slightly less pervy.

  27. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 3:02 am | Permalink
  28. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 3:11 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I agree here. I’m kind of waiting for George to surprise us, but the time for surprise is running out. If he wants to have a chance at it without rushing ADOS, we should be getting the big news soon. Conflicting evidence on his progress isn’t helping, either.

  29. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 3:16 am | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss,

    That’s highly unlikely. We’ll get through most of them, but all of them is a bit of a stretch unless Dorne and the Iron Islands are cut (I personally don’t see that happening). Meereen after the Pit scene will most likely be season 6 material, for instance.

  30. jarhromd
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 3:27 am | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer: That’s highly unlikely. We’ll get through most of them, but all of them is a bit of a stretch unless Dorne and the Iron Islands are cut (I personally don’t see that happening). Meereen after the Pit scene will most likely be season 6 material, for instance.

    How? It seems as Dany will take Meereen fairly early and will encounter some of the troubles from ADWD in season 4. If anything her season 5 arc should at least end where the book ended. At least.

  31. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 3:43 am | Permalink

    jarhromd,

    Because you need to get Tyrion (and Victarion) half way around the world, through Pentos, through the river trip and the Aegon reveal (which deserves more than just a couple of episodes, it deserves at the very least 4- the introduction scene, an episode which fleshes out the Griffs and brings up the mystery, the Sorrows and Tyrion figuring it out), to being taken by Jorah (we’re at episode 7 here, at the earliest), to leaving Volantis on a ship, to being taken by slavers and finally to arriving at Meereen and then the scene at the Pit. That is 10 episodes at least (though the Pit scene can easily happen without Tyrion, if his arc takes up more than one season- which wouldn’t be surprising). Tyrion appearing in 10 episodes in that jam-packed season is already a bit of a stretch, anyway…

    This leaves the whole Tyrion-works-his-way-into-the-Second-Sons plot alongside Meereen’s structure crumbling around Barristan, the dragons being released (with or without Quentyn) and Victarion arriving with his fleet for season 6. Unless you desperately crave to rush things, and I’m sure that’s not how D&D approach their writing. They just want to make good seasons.

  32. Greatness Arrisessss
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 3:45 am | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer:
    Greatness Arrisessss,

    That’s highly unlikely. We’ll get through most of them, but all of them is a bit of a stretch unless Dorne and the Iron Islands are cut (I personally don’t see that happening). Meereen after the Pit scene will most likely be season 6 material, for instance.

    LOL. You don’t see that happening? Really…? Wow. Go back to one of their interviews where they state S3 is the peak of maximum storylines they’ll allow. We’re not getting Dorne or Iron Islands.

  33. Chickenduck
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 3:50 am | Permalink

    Emperor Cronos:
    Tyrion Pimpslap, yeah it looks likely, especially since Winds isn’t coming out until 2016 at the earliest.http://whiteharbour.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/capture.png

    I may be asking an stupid question, but who is Adam Whitehead? Somewhere on his blog he estimates late 2015/early 2016 as an optimistic target for TWoW, but does he know this for sure?

    I don’t know anything about him, besides that he has a SF&F blog. Is he connected to the publishers?

  34. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 3:53 am | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss,

    Seeing as a number of storylines got axed and combined in season 3 (Robb and Cat dead, Jamie is at King’s Landing, Sam is with Jon) I think they made room for at least one of the two (the Iron Islands OR Dorne, if not both).

    But we shall see.

  35. Khal-A-Bunga
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 4:01 am | Permalink

    For me, Cersei is the biggest surprise of the show, in terms of how much more interested I am in the character than I was while reading the books. The combination of Lena’s fantastic performance with the interpretation of the character from the writers has taken a fairly one-dimensional antagonistic character and turned her into a complicated, empathetic, intriguing figure (for me).

    And I agree that both of the latest books will largely be wrapped up by the end of the fifth season. There may be a few loose ends to tie up here and there, but honestly, so much of the material is so easily excised that I don’t think it’s necessary to take much more time with it than that. I’m even expecting to see a few bits from The Winds of Winter next (next) season.

    For instance, it would be quite easy to have fAegon & Connington introduced early in Pentos, when Tyrion arrives in Essos. And a lot of his journey can be cut and/or condensed. But that said, I’m still expecting Dorne to figure pretty heavily into the show, as well as the Iron Islands (though less so than with Dorne). And this is entirely possible as long as the writers continue to make smart adaptation choices and distill the narrative down to the essentials.

  36. Greatness Arrisessss
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 4:09 am | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer:
    Greatness Arrisessss,

    Seeing as a number of storylines got axed and combined in season 3 (Robb and Cat dead, Jamie is at King’s Landing, Sam is with Jon) I think they made room for at least one of the two (the Iron Islands OR Dorne, if not both).

    But we shall see.

    We’ll only get one or the other, we sure as hell won’t get both. And you can count out Aero or Quentyn having their own POV. It’s in the show’s best interest to focus on the characters people actually care about, rather than rushing the development of brand new characters introduced halfway into the storyline. Not many book readers even liked the Dorne or Iron Islands plot to begin with. At least not an overwhelming majority. How do you expect the TV viewership to respond to that? If they want to wrap the story up with 8 seasons, they will do so with the current recurring characters. Not to mention in addition to all the interviews with D&D, they’ve also stated that starting with S4 and onwards the show will deviate quite heavily from the books. So expect a very different adaptation of books 4 and 5 altogether. I’m sure S5-S8 will piss off a lot of book purists but oh well, at least we’ll get a coherent storyline.

  37. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 4:24 am | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss,

    I don’t know about others, but AFFC was the most boring book in the series for me. It’s only real saving Grace IMO was the Dorne and Iron Islands plots which actually progressed as well as introducing a bunch of interesting characters. They climaxed early in a book that was 90% filler. Good filler, but filler nonetheless. It would be a shame IMO to see theses storylines cut out of all the less interesting AFFC stories.

    But that’s my opinion and D&D might not share it. Time will tell.

  38. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 4:36 am | Permalink

    The way I see it, the penance walk would be difficult to portray as seen in the books. Clothed or not, it would require a lot of CGI to show Cersei’s walk from Baelor’s Sept to the gates of the Red Keep. There aren’t enough locations in Dubrovnik to do it all practically, and it would require very sharp editing to deal with continuity.

    Well, if it is an early season 6 moment, we’ve got 10 episodes of her shouting at Jaime and pinching Taena Merryweather to look forward to.

  39. Greatness Arrisessss
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 4:37 am | Permalink

    Here’s the layouts

    Season 3:

    King’s Landing(Tyrion, Cersei, Tywin, Sansa, Littlefinger, Loras, Margaery, Olenna, Varys, Pycelle etc.)
    The North 1(Bran, Meera, Jojen, Hodor, Rickon, Osha)
    The North 2(Theon, Ramsay)
    Beyond the Wall 1(Jon, Ygritte, Tormund, Mance, wildlings)
    Beyond the Wall 2(Sam, Gilly, Mormont, Grenn, Ed, Karl, Rast, Craster etc.)
    Riverlands 1(Robb, Catelyn, Talisa)
    Riverlands 2(Arya, Gendry, BWB, Hound etc.)
    Riverlands 3(Jaime, Brienne, Locke, Roose etc.)
    Essos(Dany, Jorah, Barristan, Daario, Missandei)
    Dragonstone(Stannis, Davos, Melisandre)

    That’s 10 storylines.

    Season 4:

    King’s Landing(Jaime, Cersei, Tyrion, Tywin, Oberyn, Ellaria, Loras, Margaery, Mace, Olenna, Varys, Pycelle etc.)
    The North 1(Theon, Ramsay)
    The North 2(Yara)
    The Wall(Jon, Sam, Pyp, Grenn, Locke, Alliser, Slynt, Gilly, Aemon, Ed)
    Beyond the Wall(Mance, wildlings, Bran, Meera, Jojen, Hodor)
    South of the Wall(Styr, Thenns, Tormund, Ygritte)
    Riverlands(Arya, Hound)
    Vale(Brienne, Pod)
    Eyrie(Sansa, Littlefinger, Lysa)
    Essos(Dany, Daario, Barristan, Jorah, Missandei)
    Dragonstone(Stannis, Davos, Melisandre)

    That’s 11 storylines. A couple if not a few will be very small, no doubt, but still.

    Season 5?

    King’s Landing(Cersei, Kevan, Pycelle, Loras, Margaery etc.)
    The North 1(Theon, Ramsay etc.)
    The North 2(Stannis, Yara etc.)
    The Wall(Jon etc.)
    Beyond the Wall(Bran, Meera, Jojen, Hodor)
    Riverlands 1(Brienne, Pod)
    Riverlands 2(Jaime, Bronn?)
    Vale(Sansa, Littlefinger)
    Essos 1(Dany, Daario, Barristan, Missandei etc.)
    Essos 2(Tyrion, Jorah etc.)
    Braavos(Arya)

    That’s 11 storylines.

    According to book purists, there’s going to be 12.) Dorne, 13.) Essos 3 (Quentyn), 14.) Victarion, 15.) Skagos (Davos, Rickon, Osha), 16.) Oldtown (Sam), 17.) Stoneheart…

    D&D are going to cut some storylines without a doubt. And I’m for it.

  40. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 4:52 am | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss,

    I don’t think Sam, Quentyn (if he even makes it), Davos or Stoneheart will get their own storylines. Sam for instance will only appear in Arya’s story in season 5 (when he meets her in Braavos+ a few more Sam in Braavos scenes), in season 6, a lot of storylines will have combined and made room for Sam in Oldtown (assuming that becomes important at some point). Also, most and quite possibly all of Brienne’s story may well end in season 4. If that isn’t a sign of D&D making room, I don’t know what is.

    So we’re at 14ish (give or take). Yes, it’s a lot, but I think it’s doable (especially since most stories are shorter than usual).
    EDIT: Davos+Manderly will happen, though.

  41. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 5:05 am | Permalink

    If Lena is correct about the Walk of Shame being in Season 5, it would suggest that the whole of AFFC and ADWD will be finished by the time we get to the end of Season 5. And honestly, that doesn’t surprise me.

    Firstly, the Kings Landing storyline along with Jon Snow’s, are the ones that are most behind. If Cersei is catching up with ADWD material then the other more advanced storylines are definitely likely to. For example, we already know Dany will be spending the majority of Season 4 in Meereen. That leaves ample time in Season 5 for Daznak’s pit and even meeting up with the Dothraki. Heck, I even have a pet theory that they might throw in the battle of Meereen into the end of Season 5 – depending on what is supposed to happen during TWOW.

    It’s complicated, that’s for sure. But I really think this is the direction the show will go. I’m expecting very little material from AFFC/ADWD in Season 6 and a small amount of material from TWOW in Season 5. Note – this is not my ideal scenario, I’d prefer a slower passage through this material and more seasons of GoT. But it’s what I expect will happen.

  42. Greatness Arrisessss
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 5:09 am | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer:
    Greatness Arrisessss,

    I don’t think Sam, Quentyn (if he even makes it), Davos or Stoneheart will get their own storylines. Sam for instance will only appear in Arya’s story in season 5 (when he meets her in Braavos+ a few more Sam in Braavos scenes), in season 6, a lot of storylines will have combined and made room for Sam in Oldtown (assuming that becomes important at some point). Also, most and quite possibly all of Brienne’s story may well end in season 4. If that isn’t a sign of D&D making room, I don’t know what is.

    So we’re at 14ish (give or take). Yes, it’s a lot, but I think it’s doable (especially since most stories are shorter than usual).
    EDIT: Davos+Manderly will happen, though.

    14 would be far too many. Look at characters like Jaime and Jon in S3. They had 30 minutes of screen time each. If the story splits into 4 more storylines (30 minutes for Dorne, 30 minutes for Iron Islands, then 50-60 minutes for another 2 storylines) it will eat the screen-time out of beloved characters. 12 would be the absolute max. I’m betting on Victarion making it in, but even then they could just show him arriving for the Battle of Meereen in 5×09, they don’t really have to waste screen-time on him.

  43. loco73
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 5:13 am | Permalink

    Just saw “300: Rise Of An Empire”. It was more entertaining than I thought it would be. Its pretty short and it keeps the action tight, so its not meandering. One too many “Braveheart-like” speaches, some not so inspiring effects, but all in all a pretty good pop-corn and visual spectacle. And you know the slo-mo stuff looks good even though it has been done to death. However since this is an R-rated flick, it works.I thought after the high-dose of Starz’s “Spartacus”, I’d be done with this whole visual style…but it was alright in this case!

    Ughhhh and Eva Green…man oh man…she is a sight to behold! Lena is good, reprising her role and Sullivan Stapleton, of “Strike Back” fame, is actually not that bad as Themistocles!

    PS, Good to see a different take on the war against the Persian Empire, rather than that of those crazy, fanatical, Spartans! The Athenians and the rest of the Greeks were every bit as committed to their cause, but retained some humanity, sanity and strategic thought in their heads beyond getting a “beautiful death” like those Spartan fucknuckles!

  44. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 5:21 am | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss,

    The thing is that King’s Landing will cease to be the center of attention. Instead of taking two hours like this season, half an hour to an hour will suffice (with Cersei being there alone with the Tyrells for the latter two thirds of the season). As I said, Brienne might not be getting her own story in season 5. Davos will only really have his own story for two-three episodes and Bran too. The Iron Islands and Dorne will also be rather light (4-5 episodes)… I don’t think screentime is an issue, casual viewers are an issue (since the show will become harder to follow).

  45. Greatness Arrisessss
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 5:23 am | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer:
    Greatness Arrisessss,

    The thing is that King’s Landing will cease to be the center of attention. Instead of taking two hours like this season, half an hour to an hour will suffice (with Cersei being there alone with the Tyrells for the latter two thirds of the season). As I said, Brienne might not be getting her own story in season 5. Davos will only really have his own story for two-three episodes and Bran too. The Iron Islands and Dorne will also be rather light (4-5 episodes)… I don’t think screentime is an issue, casual viewers are an issue (since the show will become harder to follow).

    That doesn’t go against anything I said. If Brienne ceases to have her own storyline in S5 as you claim, then that bumps it down to 10. Then they could add Dorne and/or Iron Islands. But no more than that.

  46. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 5:25 am | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss,

    Well… We’ll see.

  47. Greatness Arrisessss
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 5:28 am | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer:
    Greatness Arrisessss,

    Well… We’ll see.

    Two things are guaranteed… Season 5 will finish up books 4 and 5, and they’ll cut out some storylines and characters. We’ll just have to wait to find out who.

  48. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 5:34 am | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss,

    I think a couple of ADWD chapters at least will be pushed to season 6. Probably more than that. But fine.

  49. Cookie
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 5:51 am | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss: guaranteed… Season 5 will finish up books 4 and 5

    Do you have a source to back up such a bold claim (i´m saying “bold” ´cause i´m trying to not use the word “presumptuous”, even though one could probably make a good argument that it´s much more fitting)?

    Edit: Btw, the fact, that that Lena believes that particular Cersei Scene will be in Season 5 can mean anything… and nothing.

  50. NomadicDirewolf
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 5:55 am | Permalink

    Looks like they will merge aDwD and aFfC into one season,given the whole walk of if shame thing, and now, and I’m starting to think that this would be a good idea. If they put both books into one season, they could make it a lot more interesting as putting all the drama of two books (both , especially aFfC, have relatively less drama,or at least many of the important things are more understated) in one season would probably mean that season 5 would have less potential to be ‘boring’. A couple of things I think they should do though, they should extend the season by at least a couple of episodes, to fit all the important stuff into a season, and i think they should also leave some things in aDwD too Season 6, one of the battles being an obvious choice, since having one battle in season 5 and another in season 6 would clearly alleviate some budget problems (though I wont believe there isnt at least one more important battle in tWoW) they might also include some other things from the end of aDwD which seem logical to open up, rather, than close a season. They might also want to put some of the stuff from tWoW to the end of season 5, seeing as the begining of tWoW looks as if it will be more exciting than the ending of aFfC and tWoW

  51. Greatness Arrisessss
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 6:06 am | Permalink

    Cookie: Do you have a source to back up such a bold claim (i´m saying “bold” ´cause i´m trying to not use the word “presumptuous”, even though one could probably make a good argument that it´s much more fitting)?

    Edit: Btw, the fact, that that Lena believes that particular Cersei Scene will be in Season 5 can mean anything… and nothing.

    D&D have said S3 is the peak of how many storylines they will do per season.
    When GRRM mentioned his hope in books 4 and 5 getting 2-3 seasons in the emmy panel, D&D responded saying they love the series but also love the sense of momentum that it has, so they won’t devote 2 seasons to every book. Books 4 and 5 happen chronologically and will be combined. It is essentially one book, 4a and 4b. D&D’s response in the emmy panel seems to suggest that this is what they meant. They’re not devoting 2-3 seasons to those books, and they won’t devote 2-3 seasons to any future books. Also, there’s not enough material in there to last any character for 2 seasons. That would absolutely kill the momentum of the show, and there’s no guarantee that the show will be 8 seasons any way.

    S5 – AFFC + ADWD
    S6 – TWOW
    S7 – ADOS

    It matters not that the latter books aren’t out yet. They can still follow the general idea or summary of what’s meant to happen in those installments. I would say it’s more bold to assume AFFC+ADWD will get 2 seasons. 3 sure as hell was ruled out. 8 seasons is the absolute max in terms of how long this series will last. And Lena has had many talks of her future on the show just as Nikolaj had, so her saying the walk of penance being in S5 does mean something… unless you want to be in denial or something.

    I love arguing with book purists who think books 4 and 5 need 2-5 seasons to adapt. Wait until the summer press release for D&D to shoot down all of your dreams. They will reveal that both books will be completed by the end of S5.

    I will bet all the money in my savings on this.

  52. Greatness Arrisessss
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 6:16 am | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer:
    Greatness Arrisessss,

    I think a couple of ADWD chapters at least will be pushed to season 6. Probably more than that. But fine.

    That’s possible, but nothing as bizarre as the Battle of Meereen in 6×09 or Jon’s assassination in 6×10. I’m sure a few chapters will bleed into S6.

  53. Cookie
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    @Greatness Arrisessss:
    So, short answer: you don´t have a source.
    We´ll see how it will turn out, i don´t really need two seasons for books 4 and 5, btw.

    I just find armchair producers, who don´t have a single clue about the reality of writing and producing a TV Series, but are nevertheless behaving like they´re experts in that field, pretty annoying, thats all.

  54. Greatness Arrisessss
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    NomadicDirewolf: think they should also leave some things in aDwD too Season 6, one of the battles being an obvious choice, since having one battle in season 5 and another in season 6 would clearly alleviate some budget problems

    They could always… ya know…. *drum roll please* have both battles in Season 5 and have one of the battles cut to black… like they’ve done with Green Fork and Oxcross and the Fist…. and devote the budget in Season 6 to a worthwhile TWoW climax… why this goes over so many people’s heads…. is beyond my understanding frankly…..

  55. Greatness Arrisessss
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 6:22 am | Permalink

    Cookie:
    @Greatness Arrisessss:
    So, short answer: you don´t have a source.
    We´ll see how it will turn out, i don´t really need two seasons for books 4 and 5, btw.

    I just find armchair producers, who don´t have a single clue about the reality of writing and producing a TV Series, but are nevertheless behaving like they´re experts in that field, pretty annoying, thats all.

    No, I don’t have a source. I have my common sense and a brain though, and no bias to the books or some bizarre lack of logic like wanting 10-12 seasons for GoT to give Martin time to write… lol (even though it’s been clearly said that this show won’t go on for 10 seasons, but no, a formal statement from HBO and the showrunners is not enough for some people — the show is clearly going to be 12-20 seasons long lol)

  56. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 6:32 am | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss,

    Because it’s ridiculous. If GRRM didn’t make it to the battles in two books, the show won’t make it to both in one. At most, I see Stannis vs the Freys in the snow in season 5, but not the final, climactic battle of Winterfell or the battle of Meereen. You would need the Daznak Pit scene in episode 4 of season 5 if you ever hope to get to the battle in episode 9..

  57. Greatness Arrisessss
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 6:39 am | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer:
    Greatness Arrisessss,

    Because it’s ridiculous. If GRRM didn’t make it to the battles in two books, the show won’t make it to both in one. At most, I see Stannis vs the Freys in the snow in season 5, but not the final, climactic battle of Winterfell or the battle of Meereen. You would need the Daznak Pit scene in episode 4 of season 5 if you ever hope to get to the battle in episode 9..

    Lol. Martin didn’t get to either battle since he wasted 1,000 pages on descriptions of feasts, wieners, and turtles. It’s really not that complicated…

  58. Lord Davos
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss,

    Go write yourself if you think its not complicated.

  59. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 6:47 am | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss,

    It really is. You might as well throw away the books if you think they can get to the battles in season 5. Stannis and Winterfell is a big maybe, but Meereen would require complete butchery of numerous storylines.

    Also, season 3 was the testament to the fact that D&D take things slowly. Yes, season 4 is crazy but it’s also a bit crazy to think that they will try to match that pace in season 5.

    It’s not like taking the story in a normal pace would make for a bad season, but rushing through two books and more as you suggest definitely will make for a bad season. There will be no time for the small character moments that are the highlight of the fourth and fifth book and a lot of good scenes would need to get cut. There really is no reason to do that as long as they can do 8 seasons. Which they can.

  60. wizardeyes
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 6:56 am | Permalink

    Family, Duty, Hodor,

    I’d be willing to bet Daznak’s Pit is 5:09 but it would make for an insanely epic season 5 if they had the battle of Meereen as well. They would need a budget increase for sure…

  61. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    wizardeyes,

    It would be epic. But imagine the problems they’d have if they had to do both the battle for Winterfell and the battle for Meereen at the beginning of Season 6! Their budget would be destroyed that year! It’s for this reason that I’m guessing we’ll get one of the two battles in Season 5. And given the speed at which Dany’s storyline is progressing, I reckon it will be Meereen. Tyrion will have 9 episodes to get there, which should be enough, and whatever happens with Quentyn is not so important. The real question mark, of course, is the Greyjoys, but we’ll see I guess.

  62. John
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    acatlover: There is absolutely no reason to think any of that. They’re not going to make 2 books into less than 1 season. It’s much, much, MUCH more likely that Season 5 will conclude with Daznak’s Pit/all of AFFC and 2/3 of ADWD. You people are really annoying. Seriously. Give it a goddamn break.

    Although the entire Greyjoy storyline has to be evolving during season 5, I think that the walk is going to happen in season 5.
    It makes sense in a way, to show the rise and struggle of Jon, Cersei and Daenerys in one season, giving the season an overall political power theme (“House of Thrones” ;-)).
    (And ending with stabbing, walking and flying away would also be a great finale!)

  63. Laszlo
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss,

    They won’t be cutting Stoneheart, and most likely neither Euron and Victarion. The rest can probably go, though, or at least will end up severely shortened and combined with other stuff.

  64. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    Family, Duty, Hodor,

    I don’t think that would be a problem. I always imagined they would do the battles simultaneously in one big episode in season 6, intercutting between fire and ice. It wouldn’t cost much more than than the usual battle episode (well, it would because dragons but it would cost much less than devoting two whole episodes in separate seasons to the battles). It would be a great image, too.

    Either way, if we’re seeing a battle in season 5 it will likely be the battle of Winterfell (since Jon receiving the pink letter kind of relies on the battle happening and ending vaguely). Getting all the pieces towards Dany in time and having the battle of Meereen in season 5 will be harder than that, and would make little sense. Also, season 5 will be the Stannis season, so it makes more sense.

  65. Ours is the Fury
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    Broken Wolf:
    I must say I’m looking forward to Cersei’s penance walk I’ve never seen Lena Headey naked. I bet she looks AMAZING. :D

    Just google Lena Headey naked. She’s been naked plenty on film. I don’t think the Penance Walk is going to be or is meant to be sexy and titillating.

  66. Valaquen
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury: Just google Lena Headey naked.

    Well, my safe search was off (ahem) and… don’t Google this with your family around folks! There are some imaginative photoshops out there.

  67. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    Valaquen,

    Ooh cool. Is there an octopus involved?

  68. wizardeyes
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    Valaquen,

    Some of those photoshops are hilarious

  69. Summer is Coming
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    The way I see it is like this. S1 to 4 were the first half of the story. Things got started and things will reach a conclusion and many loose ends will be wraped: The “Who killed JR/Jon Arryn?” mistery will be solved and along with it many of the ongoing journeys. Tyrion kills his father and leaves, Dany becomes a Queen (even if its for a foreign city), Jon becomes a leader, Arya ties all the ropes and leaves the continent, Sansa stops being a pawn, Bran discovers his future, Jaime goes 180*, Cersei eneters full paranoia without her father as boundary, Joffrey dies, etc.

    Season 5 onwards, starts the second half that eventually reach the final conclusion. So of course S5 will be slow and more difficult to comprehend, because its a restart, so to speak. Resembles, for the viewers, the first season. The characters now are different, all of them! They have the second journey, from what are they after the events in the first half, to what will become at the end. Plus the 2 major new storylines, Dorne and Iron Islands that will play a part in the future of the books for sure. Quentin, my guess will be incorporated into Dany’s story, and will show him directly arrive at her court asking for her hand, without his journey. His release of the dragons and his death were some of my favourite moments in adwd, and I wish they will happen.
    Tyrion, assuming that his story in S4 will end with him killing Tywin, or at most going for Pentos and meeting Illyrio, can’t have his whole storyline in adwd, appear in every episode in S5. There is a lot. Let the Young Griff mistery breathe. Let Jorah kidnap him towards the end of S5.

    Oh anyways, I do hope they just don’t rush things! That’s the only thing! Change timelines but take your time and make coherent, structured and interesting storylines! Hope for the best in S5. It will be tough.

  70. pntrlqst
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    https://www.facebook.com/losersuk

    Check out this band’s FB.

    “MASSIVE NEWS:

    To the millions watching the new Game of Thrones trailer THIS Sunday night on HBO, you will have the first explosive listen to our new single ‘Turn Around’ #GoTSeason4 #andsoweshallneverpart #losersuk”

  71. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    pntrlqst,

    A song built for a GOT trailer? A GOT trailer?! Here be dragons! I won’t watch it, though. It’s the Brotherhood Without Previews for me… Until I break and watch it a day later.

    Who is this band, anyway? And is the trailer part of the season 3 recap?

  72. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    Summer is Coming,

    This. Thank you.

  73. wizardeyes
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    Summer is Coming,

    Definitely agree with you about Quentyn. I like him and hope that he isn’t cut but we dont really need to see his whole journey. I think it would be best if Doran and Arianne discuss Quentyn so that viewers know he exists then we meet him when he presents himself to Dany and viewers will be like ‘oh so this is that guy’.
    Meeting new characters is done best when we meet them via an established character – when new characters just appear out of nowhere its a bit disorientating.
    It would work best if we meet Doran, Arianne and the sand snakes via Ellaria.
    Victarion, Euron and Aeron via Yara.
    Griff and Aegon via Tyrion.
    And Quentyn and co via Dany.

  74. Eugene Toussaint
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    Chickenduck,

    All this talk about it being inevitable that the show will pass the books might be true. It definitely something I saw as a possibility when the show started, but then again I never had any attention of continuing to watch the show if it did happen. The show is good, but personally the books are way better. I do not neccesarily have faith that GRRM will finish the books anytime soon, but I do know barring anything tragic happening, he will eventually get the books done and more likely than not they will be fantastic. I’ve been reading these books for more than a decade, most of which spent rereading the first four as I waited for Dance. There is no point to stop now. A matter of fact, I would probably hate the show if it confirmedL+R=J before I read it in the books.

  75. cosca
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    Summer is Coming:
    Tyrion, assuming that his story in S4 will end with him killing Tywin, or at most going for Pentos and meeting Illyrio, can’t have his whole storyline in adwd, appear in every episode in S5. There is a lot. Let the Young Griff mistery breathe. Let Jorah kidnap him towards the end of S5.

    No. They can’t base a whole seasons story line around a mystery that the audience care nothing about, featuring mostly characters we’ve never met. It didn’t go down well with the Theon scenes, it certainly won’t go down well if that’s basically all Tyrion does in Season 5, particularly since Tyrion is guaranteed more screen time than Theon was in S3. He needs to at least be in Mereen by the end of Season 5.

  76. Lord Davos
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    cosca,

    That material is a thousand times better than the Theon material in season 3.

  77. cosca
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    Lord Davos,

    How is it? At least with the Theon scenes we had a high octane chase, a touching confession from Theon and Iwan Rheon’s energy to keep interest among the 7 or 8 Theon scenes in the Season. With Tyrion, you just have him whining, “where do whores go” X10000, a terrible soap opera twist with the whole AEGON IS ALIVE!!!! twist, then tons of boring filler on the boat. Not to mention that Theon’s story line only lasted 6 episodes, whearas Tyrion’s would probably last 9 or 10.

  78. Lady Obara Sand
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 11:55 am | Permalink
  79. House Mormont
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    Lena Headey is definitely my favourite actress on the show, other than maybe Emilia who’s read the books over and over, no one understands the depths and layers of their character like Lena does, she really sees beyond the script and interprets it in Cersei’s own way. I’m so excited to see Cersei’s life of fear in s5.

    Hand of the Kingslayer: Seeing as a number of storylines got axed and combined in season 3 (Robb and Cat dead, Jamie is at King’s Landing, Sam is with Jon) I think they made room for at least one of the two (the Iron Islands OR Dorne, if not both).

    Ya see, Robb and Cat are gone, but d&d filled that with the wilding perspective and Yara. Not to mention that after that all the groups of characters splinter and seperate. Stannis and co. and Jon and co. Becomes Stannis on his own, Jon and Melisandre, Sam on his own, Davos on his own. Sansa leaves KL, Tyrion leaves KL, Jaime leaves KL, Loras leaves KL, Varys leaves KL, Brienne leaves KL. The big boiling pot of action turns into 5 or 6 seperate tangents.

    Dorne is not necessary. We will get the Dornish characters and culture. We see Quentyn through Dany and we see Arianne through Aegon. We do not need to see Dorne itself. Doran can never leave, and I doubt the action will ever come to Sunspear, and Queenmaker goes nowhere, unless Darkstar becomes relevant to the rest of the characters in the game.

    The Iron Islands… Vic is necessary ofc for the Battle of Meereen and whatever happens with Volantis and transporting the Queen. Unless d&d swap him with Yara, seeing as she does nothing as Stannis’ prisoner and Dany isn’t gonna marry Vic. Euron is also necessary, having an invisible antagonist did NOT work with the Mountain in season 3 and it’d be even worse here. Furthermore, his story actually does affect the other characters in the game. Invading the reach is what causes Loras to go Dragonstone and Cersei to move in on Margaery while the other Tyrells are in meltdown. And that’s not mentioning whatever Euron’s gonna do in Oldtown

    Hand of the Kingslayer: Davos will only really have his own story for two-three episodes and Bran too.

    This did not work in the book, and it will not work in the show just because it happened in the book. Having an entire storyline only in 2-3 episodes is just bad storytelling. It’d make sense to flesh out existing characters than to forget about them for new ones.

  80. House Mormont
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    I’m interesting on how you guys think the Aegon on JonCon reveal will be adapted?

    Since in the book it was …your eyes look kinda purple and everyone’s treating you like a prince… YOU’RE THE DEAD PRINCE AEGON TARGARYEN… and you… you have gingery roots… YOU’RE THE DEAD HAND OF THE KING JON CONNINGTON

    Obviously this wouldn’t work, so how do you think it’ll happen?

  81. Lord Davos
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    cosca,

    If you want soap opera, go watch the walking dead.
    Seriously, Hugo manipulating Young Griff was some of Grrms best work, he turned around a ton of events with game of cyvasse. That passage was perfection.
    And if actually paid attention during the chapters, there was no reveal.
    It was clue after clue until you realise whats going on at the same time they pass the Shrouded Lord.
    Where do whores go, is Hugo trying to cope with being his fathers son. That was like the big theme of his arc. He gets way darker because he understands no one loves him, and that comes to climax at his drowning. His whore at Illyrio and the river brothel is great symbolism on that part, how much that has changed since Tysha.
    At least they can get the casting for Griff right, and they should surely for Young too.
    I have heard Damian Lewis talking about being interested in GoT, he would be perfect. He has played war heroes, traitors, fugitives what not. Plus hes a ginger.

    I hope D&D sees this, it would make great television. I think you are overestimating how much time they need on that river. 5 episodes at most, and little Pentos and Volantis.

  82. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    Davos would ideally stay at the Wall for the rest of the season. That’s why I said his OWN storyline.

  83. Lord Davos
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    I hope for some flashback, if time.

  84. Al Swearengen
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Schwing! I really wish Lena would read the books especially AFFC and ADWD, it would help her performance for season 5.

  85. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    I think Tyrion can overhear a conversation that wasn’t meant for him, either between Illyrio and Varys, Arya style or between Griff and Illyrio or whatever. Then he will become suspicious, ask Young Griff the right questions and begin theorizing. If we get the Sorrows, Griff can call out Aegon as “my Prince!” when he’s nearly attacked or something. Either of these or a combination of them would work better, and I do think Aegon will have silver hair from the get-go unlike the books. It really wouldn’t be that hard to piece together if he has silver hair.

  86. House Mormont
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos,

    flashbacks ain’t happenin yo’
    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    sounds good, the gradual cluedo-ing it together would give it that kings landing intrigue vibe, and it’d make it look like Tyrion was doing something

  87. Lord Davos
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    They need flashbacks, have you seen True Detective? Its awesome.
    Breaking Bad used it, Mad Men uses it, Sopranos uses it, all great shows uses it.
    They need to do new things to be better.

  88. cosca
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos,
    You should probably set yourself up for disappointment in that case.

  89. Alan
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    Oh, is this the part of the year where people see stuff in trailers and read episode descriptions, way over-estimate the speed of the script, start making ridiculous breakdowns of future seasons based on almost nothing at all and finally defend those guesstimates with an extraordinary amount of arrogance that only comes naturally to those people who have really never done much with their lives?

    Yes, yes it is. I still remember when it was guaranteed the Purple Wedding was in Season 3, when Arya was getting on a ship for Braavos at the end of Season 3, etc.

    They are accelerating some storylines, but not nearly as much as people think. Sometimes they are just moving things around. In some storylines, they are actually adding plot.

    And yes, it’s unlikely they are going to be able to include all the storylines in Dance and Feast. And yes, it seems unlikely — unless D&D want to take a break — that Martin will finish ADOS before the show catches up. But year after year, people constantly overestimate the pace of the show. They constantly forget plot points, story structure, and the reality that there’s 52 minutes and episode.

    Most importantly, they forget that they don’t have to be a dick about everything.

  90. House Mormont
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos,

    The show’s already set a precedent of not using flashbacks, and the only case of anything not being chronological was Littlefinger’s speech in 3×06 overlapping him leaving the city

    I’ve seen True Detective, Breaking Bad and the Sopranos. It’s not the flashbacks that make them good shows, and our cast is already huge

  91. Lord Davos
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,
    Well, I still hope for flashbacks, the better to explain things. Bran got his dreams though.

  92. Dnis
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    Actually, having Daznak’s pit in Episode 4 is a great idea. Really, what else is Dany going to do? We know we’re getting the Sons of the Harpy and Hizdahr this season (though it’s unclear whether the marriage will happen this seaon or early in Season 5). For everyone who wants the Pit in Episode 9, how can that happen without dramatically slowing down any sense of momentum in Dany’s storyline?

    Bottom line, I don’t think many people here appreciate just how devastating the Meereenese Knot has been to the books. I want to avoid a similar situation for the show at all costs. As I said before in a different thread, end Season 5 with Dany on her way to Westeros, even if it means extensive cutting. Essos is far less important than Westeros, anyway.

  93. Dnis
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos,

    Flashbacks aren’t necessarily bad, but I like not having them in Game of Thrones. They work for some shows and don’t work for others. To be honest, I don’t think they added much to Breaking Bad.

  94. Laszlo
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    Dnis,

    It’s not that devastating, breezing through 2 and a half books in one season would be a hell lot worse. Because if Dany gets to that point, all the other storylines need to as well, and that’s just way too much, it would be shit. If they get to the dead kid in this season’s finale, and then Dany flying off to the Dothraki Sea in season 5′s episode 9 or 10, that leaves it short enough to not become boring.

  95. Dnis
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    Laszlo,

    The devastation occurred in multiple ways:

    1) It delayed the completion of the books. 11 years from aSoS to aDwD, and no one knows if the series will even finish.

    2) It made for the awful and indefensible geographic split between Books 4 and 5;

    3) It made for a dull Dany arc in Book 5; and

    4) Perhaps worst of all, thanks to the bloat of Books 4 and 5, we’re left nowhere closer to the conclusion of the series than we were after aSoS.

    I actually think the rest of Season 5 can end approximately where aDwD ends, with a few exceptions (notably Bran), as long as viewers can see that Dany’s arc is actually going somewhere (she doesn’t actually have to show up in Westeros until deep into Season 6). Viewers were promised dragons vs. ice zombies, and they’ll tune out if the show isn’t progressing to that end.

  96. Dnis
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    And, oh yeah, this post is about Lena Headey and Cersei. Should be a fantastic Season 5 for her, and for us.

  97. Laszlo
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

    Dnis,

    Well, most of those aren’t problems here, since most likely the two books will be combined, and they’re finished. And it was a good arc in theory, and necessary to Dany’s storyline, it was just too drawn out. And I think flying away on a dragon, the prospect of Tyrion joining her and a big battle coming up is more than enough to make it look like shit is going somewhere.

  98. Dnis
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    Laszlo,

    It’s the overall added complexity that’s the danger in the show. So much attention to what, in essence, is a sideshow that is preventing the real story from coming to fruition. That’s what I want to avoid.

    Again, if the pit is in Episode 9, what will Dany do in Episodes 1-8? And why will viewers care about an upcoming gigantic battle in Essos, anyway? As an avid book-reader, I don’t even care about what happens in the battle – I’m just ready for it to end.

  99. wizardeyes
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    Dnis,

    Gigantic battles are exciting, why does it matter that its in Essos?
    I see this battle as the climax and orgasmic explosion after an excruciating build-up.
    It’s also the first battle to have dragons so yeah.

  100. Oberyn Wan Kenobi
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

    What are the details of their “fucked up reunion” I forget..

  101. OldeCrone
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss: Lol. Martin didn’t get to either battle since he wasted 1,000 pages on descriptions of feasts, wieners, and turtles. It’s really not that complicated…

    Since I read [or listened to audio versions] of some of the books [I was completely "Unsullied" until part way through last year] to be honest I find the descriptions of the feasts tiresome. Although the book way Bran meets Jojen and Meera and their pledge of loyalty is moving I was so glad the show didn’t do the (to me) boring feast. I was also glad there was no blue beard for a certain party and no “thaphires” for another but I know I’m probably in a minority of one. I think George Martin has a fertile mind to have created the “Game of Thrones” world but there are times I wish he went round the houses less.

  102. Lord Davos
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    Dnis,

    When were the viewers promised dragons vs zombies?
    Thats just a common trope. I hope no one follows this show any longer just for dragons and zombies.

  103. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Oberyn Wan Kenobi,

    Funeral sex near Joffrey’s corpse. The book amplified the disgust-factor by having Cersei in her period when they did it, but I am positive the show won’t be going THAT far.

  104. Dnis
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    wizardeyes,

    OK, I’ll concede that a battle with dragons can be quite the spectacle; we got a nice tease in Astapor in Season 3. And as much as I love orgasmic explosions, they don’t really benefit from an “excruciating” build-up – what was it Ros said to Joffrey about too much pain ruining the pleasure?

    OldeCrone,

    I agree with you on your last sentence, but I never even noticed the excessive attention to feasting until I visited the message boards. Apparently, I love to read about food just as much as GRRM loves to write about it.

  105. Dnis
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos,

    “Dragons vs. ice zombies” is shorthand for fire vs. ice. I think a book series called A Song of Ice and Fire strongly implies that there will be such a confrontation. Considering how Seasons 1 and 2 ended (birth of dragons in Season 1, white walkers and wights marching on the Fist in Season 2) , the show appears to be going in that direction as well. Meereen is an enormous deviation.

  106. OldeCrone
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    Dnis,

    It’s different strokes for different folks I guess. I did say I was probably in a minority of one!! It’s my understanding that Medieval feasts were extravagant (for the rich folk anyway) so the descriptions are probably fitting.

  107. Laszlo
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    Dnis,

    Not really, shit has been mostly about politics so far. So no, Meereen isn’t a deviation from anything, it fits into what the series is about, it’s just not as good as the rest.

  108. WildSeed
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    backward puzzle… hmmm, not for me dear. Cersei was pegged from the start.

    The ” walk of shame ” scene won’t be as I’d likely imagined it from reading,
    but I’m sure many viewers will express something akin to satisfaction.
    Queen regent and the original ” mean girl ” , has many pivotal scenes to look
    forward to, on GoT. So much remains to be said and done for future seasons,
    these alone are incentive enough to never give up on the series.

  109. Absalom Crane
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos,

    I picture Philip Glenister (from Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes) for Jon Connington. While mentioning casting ideas I want to throw out: Luke Pasqualino (BAG Blood&Chrome, The Musketeers) for Quentyn Martell, and Idris “Baddest MoFo on Earth” Elba as Moqorro.

  110. Absalom Crane
    Posted March 8, 2014 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

    Thank you very much for saying EXACTLY THIS! Thank you thank you thank you

    Alan:
    Oh, is this the part of the year where people see stuff in trailers and read episode descriptions, way over-estimate the speed of the script, start making ridiculous breakdowns of future seasons based on almost nothing at all and finally defend those guesstimates with an extraordinary amount of arrogance that only comes naturally to those people who have really never done much with their lives?

    Yes, yes it is. I still remember when it was guaranteed the Purple Wedding was in Season 3, when Arya was getting on a ship for Braavos at the end of Season 3, etc.

    They are accelerating some storylines, but not nearly as much as people think. Sometimes they are just moving things around. In some storylines, they are actually adding plot.

    And yes, it’s unlikely they are going to be able to include all the storylines in Dance and Feast. And yes, it seems unlikely — unless D&D want to take a break — that Martin will finish ADOS before the show catches up. But year after year, people constantly overestimate the pace of the show. They constantly forget plot points, story structure, and the reality that there’s 52 minutes and episode.

    Most importantly, they forget that they don’t have to be a dick about everything.

  111. Mirri Maz
    Posted March 9, 2014 at 3:45 am | Permalink

    Lena will also be a guest judge on this week’s Rupaul’s Drag Race

  112. Ashara D
    Posted March 9, 2014 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    If you’ve read/heard the released chapters from TWoW, it is pretty clear that Dorne will NOT be cut. Arianne figures prominently in the story going forward. Will all of the subplots be there? No. It can be severely streamlined but Dorne will NOT be cut. Plus, we must find out more about the mysterious Daynes, Dorne bannermen. I have faith that D&D and BCog will not let me down.

  113. Lord Davos
    Posted March 9, 2014 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    Ashara D,

    I dont get people who wants Greyjoys and Martells cut. They are important to the story. What are we going to do without them?

  114. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted March 9, 2014 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    Absalom Crane:
    Lord Davos,

    I picture Philip Glenister (from Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes) for Jon Connington. While mentioning casting ideas I want to throw out: Luke Pasqualino (BAG Blood&Chrome, The Musketeers) for Quentyn Martell, and Idris “Baddest MoFo on Earth” Elba as Moqorro.

    I love Elba but he is now too big for such a part. Adewale Akinnoie Agbaje (Mr. Eko, Simon Adebisi) makes more sense.

  115. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted March 9, 2014 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    House Mormont:
    Lord Davos,

    The show’s already set a precedent of not using flashbacks, and the only case of anything not being chronological was Littlefinger’s speech in 3×06 overlapping him leaving the city

    And Lord Commander Mormont’s “are you a boy who likes to play at war” speech to Jon Snow at Season 1 end intercut with the Nights Watch going out on the ranging.

  116. WildSeed
    Posted March 9, 2014 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    I can’t help but agree with your point here, the pattern is evident in most posts.
    I’ve experienced this conundrum many times, raising concern in these comment
    threads. Hopefully I’ve gained some insights , with respect to the viewing audience’s
    pattern of denial, and accepted the more important role of just sitting back and
    enjoying the story as it unfolds. I can still obsess over some details, yet I respect
    the process of adapting the books to whatever premise the writers deem appropriate.
    I respect that, but I don’t have to agree in principle. Those offering serious if well
    thought out speculation, offer much release for those of us whom hope to engage
    or blow off steam. It can be downright fun, if only tension relieving.

    It’s my belief that the upcoming season will become a game changer, both with the
    larger revisions in telling the story onscreen, and it’s divergence from the book in pace and specifics. There’s no argument that this has been taking place, gradually, but not as what Benioff and Weiss has been hinting about of late. It can be argued that the merit of success
    for this series, lies both with the expectation of the readers and the realistic aspirations of the adaptation process. Only time will tell, that and a committed audience that keeps the faith.
    We’re likely in good hands with the show runners , so I’m in it for the long haul. Good
    thing there are other tension relievers like ” True Detective “, ” Orphan Black “, etc, and
    newer projects making their debut this spring. RIP ” Breaking Bad “. *>*

  117. WildSeed
    Posted March 9, 2014 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    Greatjon of Slumber,

    I’d almost forgotten about that, but the feeling of disappointment feels fresh. ) :

  118. WildSeed
    Posted March 9, 2014 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    Mirri Maz,

    that’s a riot ! what fun ! a queen among queens !!

  119. WildSeed
    Posted March 9, 2014 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    OldeCrone,

    I’d likened it to the reason for the occasion, like a bountiful season’s harvest, and the need to make use of it before it spoils. Aside from sex, music and hard work, usually servitude, there was little to serve up as large social occasion. I say ” feast” on.
    Potluck invites social gatherings at a scale similar to any concert or thanksgiving affair. Fussing over the details give purpose and offer respite of the mind from the drudgery of servitude and bored thoughts. Too bad libraries were only for the rich or maesters. I could travel leagues in my thoughts, from a single book. ( :

  120. WildSeed
    Posted March 9, 2014 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    Chickenduck,

    I believe he’s interviewed GRRM, at least once, and possibly has some insights
    lent to him from others connected to GRRM’s circle. On the other hand, only the
    publishers may speak with some certainty, of a publish date. Even GRRM can’t
    project that on his on. Proofreads and number of protocols must be reached, despite
    rough drafts and the like. I’ll be content only with a book in hand, and until then
    find something else compelling to read. Predicting my actions in the course of
    2 to 3 years is not time well spent, IMO.

  121. Awake Iron!
    Posted March 10, 2014 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss,

    Well, if we’re not getting Dorne nor the Iron Island, how is the show going to explain the Ironborn showing up in Meereen with a magical horn and a red priest? And how will the viewers understand who Quentyn is and how important his destiny is if they aren’t introduced to the Martells of Sunspear?

  122. Awake Iron!
    Posted March 10, 2014 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    Valyrian Plastic,

    And plotting against Margaery She’s been plotting against Tyrion for 3 seasons.

  123. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted March 10, 2014 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    Awake Iron!,

    Well, hopefully the extra side-plots will mean King’s landing only gets 7 or 8 episodes in Season 5. I can imagine we’ll be getting more episodes like Blackwater and Rains of Castamere in terms of the small range of viewpoints rather than just the scale of those episodes. Having Dorne and the Iron Islands in AFFC came as relief when it became clear Cersei was just making one royal screw-up after another. Bring on the Myrish Swamp!

    I generally avoid speculation about future storylines, but I imagine there will be episodes where it’s just KL, Dorne & The Iron Islands (AFFC) and (Beyond) the Wall, Slaver’s Bay and The North (ADWD).

  124. Awake Iron!
    Posted March 10, 2014 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss,

    The thing is, we’re still half through the Story, so we don’t know yet how important some characters and actions will be for the resolution of the main plotlines. But I see in D&D a wish in following George’s story, only making the changes and adjustments necessary for the story to work on tv.
    Stoneheart is necessary for Brienne’s arc to be headed where it’s heading. Maybe they’ll introduce her by the end of season 5. We’ll see.
    We don’t know yet how important Sam being a maester and talking to Marwyn will be. Imagine “big things” going on in the Citadel in Winds of Winter; how could D&D cut out Sam’s journey then? The same happens with Griff & Young Griff invading the Stormlands, Victarion showing up in Meereen with the magical horn, etc, etc.

    So I find it too adventurous to state categorically that this arc or that arc will be cut out. And I don’t see myself as a book purist for thinking that way.

  125. Awake Iron!
    Posted March 10, 2014 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss,

    So you want Victarion to appear like a deus ex machina, showing up in Meereen just in time of saving Dany’s army? The average viewer would think that’s a cheap move of the writers, pulling things out of thin air for the good guys to win a battle that was going to be probably lost, or very complicated at least.
    You see? That is an example of possible ill effects if you start cutting storylines. You could have a more “rounded” season 5, but at the cost of less coherent seasons 6, 7, tc. with a lot of “who the hell are those people?” moments for the viewers. No bueno.

  126. Dnis
    Posted March 10, 2014 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    Laszlo,

    Yes, the show (and books) are largely about politics (which I love), but I’m talking about plot progression here. The political dysfunction in King’s Landing is leading to that final confrontation, whereas the political dysfunction in Meereen delays it.

  127. Darkstar
    Posted March 10, 2014 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Where the hell did the Pedro Pascal post go?

  128. lanlanlurker
    Posted March 10, 2014 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    I think the casting announcements should inform us;

    has Areo Hotah been cast?A POV character
    Has Griff, Aegon been cast?
    The Greyjoys?

    Those are roles which should go to decent ‘name’ actors. Once they are cast we will know which season they appear in.

    And given the history of the show, and the fanbase…casting announcements are hard to hide.

  129. Lord Davos
    Posted March 10, 2014 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    Dnis,

    Meereen is is shaped up to be the biggest single point in the story since early Winterfell. I see it as a point where lots of things will come to an end. Its fire, and Winterfell is ice.

  130. Taena
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    OMG a Lena/Cersei post!! 129 comments awesome!!

    *scrolls.. reads.. yawns..*

    Of course.

    96% is discussion about which season various plot points will appear in.

    She said more than “I think that’s going to be next season”

    I mean, I’m kind of late to the party, perhaps there was loads of discussion about Lena’s Cersei vs. book Cersei after seasons 1-3 but I find it fascinating and worth discussing.

    For me she is one of the most interesting characters in the books and the show. Do you think she will be “fucking Lancel (again) and Osmund Kettleblack?” If not, it will be interesting to see how the High Sparrow will ensnare her (in a future season yes I know). And also, it would make her character almost more likable if she is ‘faithful to Jamie’ this season, just as he is faithful to her – good thing or bad thing?

    I love when she says that she wants to be Jaime – you can so understand that and sounds like we are in for a treat watching their relationship change.

    Thank-you Hand of the Kingslayer for the IGN interview! So cool to hear Lena talk about that relationship and how “ambiguous” it is. Sounds like, as in the books, they’re going with ‘he loves her’, ‘she loves him when she needs to.’ Again, will be interested to see what happens after Tywin dies (don’t give a shit which episode of what season that will be btw before anyone jumps on that) because again, their relationship chances again after Tyrion tells Jaime “she’s been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack” sooo.. yeah.. again, that would need to be in this season for that to make sense in the final ep or whenever.. But no sign of these characters? Surely would be ‘too much’ Cersei to have her wrestling with the Jaime relationship, chatting to Oberyn, shouting at Tywin, glaring at Tyrion, AND being ‘unfaithful’ to Jaime?? (NEVER too much Cersei as far as I’m concerned of course, it could be the Lena show and I’d watch it).

    Is this why people think she might be sleeping with Oberyn this season??

  131. Taena
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    Also, in other threads people have mentioned the lack of flashbacks – do you think we will ever get Maggy the Frog? Because it would go a long way to explaining her hatred and fear of Tyrion, and therefore her certainty that he is responsible for Joffrey’s death. Dream sequence maybe?

  132. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted March 12, 2014 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    Taena,

    The dream where she’s on the throne being painfully ripped to shreds by the swords would be the perfect way to wrong-foot the viewers at the start of season 5 (just as it was to the readers of AFFC), and it worked beautifully as foreshadowing to how she was slowly destroying the realm (and ultimately her own reputation) with her terrible decisions.

    Everyone dreams, D&D, please reflect that in the series. They still have time to make up for losing Ned’s fever dreams and Jaime’s vision of Brienne outside Harrenhal (maybe they’ll keep his dream from AFFC), and Bran can’t be the only one with extraordinary visions.


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