Game of Thrones invades Vanity Fair, GRRM answers, is the show catching up? “Yes. It’s alarming.”
By Lightbringer on in Interview.

The April 2014 issue of Vanity Fair is chock full of Game of Thrones goodies. Nearly all of the major players gathered in full costume to pose for the new feature, with Daenerys and Jon Snow joining the Lannisters for the cover shot. What’s even more tantalizing is some very telling words about the future of Game of Thrones from show runners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss, and the man who started it all, George R.R. Martin.

It’s been widely speculated that the television series is outpacing Martin’s writing speed, and will soon surpass his released work. So from the mouth of the man himself, are they catching up? “They are. Yes. It’s alarming.”

Photograph by Annie Leibovitz.

Photograph by Annie Leibovitz.

Not to worry though, in the event that they do catch up, the show’s creators are prepared. Benioff reveals, “Last year we went out to Santa Fe for a week to sit down with him [Martin] and just talk through where things are going, because we don’t know if we are going to catch up and where exactly that would be. If you know the ending, then you can lay the groundwork for it. And so we want to know how everything ends. We want to be able to set things up. So we just sat down with him and literally went through every character.”

But this doesn’t mean that Martin is giving up quite yet, and is hopeful that he will be the first one to tell his story. “I can give them the broad strokes of what I intend to write, but the details aren’t there yet. I’m hopeful that I can not let them catch up with me.”

Benioff and Weiss also reveal that the show’s lifespan may be shorter than the public originally thought, or would like. They would like to wrap the show up after seven or eight seasons. Weiss says, “It doesn’t just keep on going because it can. I think the desire to milk more out of it is what would eventually kill it, if we gave in to that.”

In addition to the shop talk, the feature also includes interviews with the cast. Peter Dinklage discusses what drew him to the character of Tyrion Lannister. “It just seemed like something I had never come across before, especially in the fantasy genre, which I still refuse to call this, even though we have dragons. It is just something that I was so eager to embrace, because it turned the dwarf stereotype in the fantasy genre on its head. And he’s a hero at the same time. Even in The Lord of the Rings, which I really loved—I loved those books as a child and I adore Peter Jackson’s movies—but there’s just that thing with the dwarf stuff. That’s complete fantasy. I had done The Chronicles of Narnia, with the long beard and all of that, because I definitely wanted to explore that and have an opinion of it from the inside, but I just feel like this character, Tyrion, was a complete human being. Shock!”

Vanity Fair has also released two great behind the scenes videos from the cover shoot. The first video takes a look at the cast posing for their spread. Catch glimpses of the Lannisters, Dany and Jorah, Jon, Ygritte, and the Wildlings, Arya and Sansa, and more. The second videos sees the cast answer the question: which character belongs on the Iron Throne?

For some more teases from the feature, visit VanityFair.Com. The issue will be on newsstands and available for digital download on March 13!


319 Comments

  1. Tar Kidho
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 4:02 am | Permalink

    Winter!

  2. Hornhillbilly
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 4:04 am | Permalink

    Winds of Winter going to be a while away yet. Upcoming season and the following one should us up to the end of AFFC and DWD. Even if he finishes it next year it would only leave him a 2 years to do the last. Can’t wait though.

  3. Rico
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 4:09 am | Permalink

    HODOR!

  4. Malcatraz
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 4:15 am | Permalink

    Dude. GEORGE. Work harder, PLEASE. You’re allowed to have a private life, but chill out on the conventions, side projects, and football blogging. I know you’re reading this, and you’re close to completing a masterpiece. Don’t fumble in the red zone.

  5. Silverstormm
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 4:20 am | Permalink

    What happened to all the blonde Lannisters? Jaime is now a very dark blonde & Cersei/Tyrion look like red heads!? Bleach is your friend people. Or wigs. Or bleached wigs?

  6. Hounded
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 4:22 am | Permalink

    Emilia Clarke is so annoying!

  7. Lou Reed
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 4:22 am | Permalink

    It seems they might catch up with Dance of Dragons in Season 5 (Lena mentioned the Walk of Shame being in season 5).

    But if George really believes he has a chance of finishing book 7 before april 2017, he must have a 3 years pr. book schedule, since book 5 was out in 2011.

    That would mean book 6 should be out this summer. If that’s the case, he will likely announce the release of book 6, when the season 4 hype is declining, as to not still the focus away from the show.

  8. Nick_Scryer
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 4:25 am | Permalink

    Awesome! Can’t wait for the full article.

    Everyone looks great, love the costume department.

  9. Silverstormm
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 4:26 am | Permalink

    Lou Reed:
    It seems they might catch up with Dance of Dragons in Season 5 (Lena mentioned the Walk of Shame being in season 5).

    But if George really believes he has a chance of finishing book 7 before april 2017, he must have a 3 years pr. book schedule, since book 5 was out in 2011.

    That would mean book 6 should be out this summer. If that’s the case, he will likely announce the release of book 6, when the season 4 hype is declining, as to not still the focus away from the show.

    I pray you are right. Gah the suspense! *shakes fist*

  10. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 4:45 am | Permalink

    An absence of a race of dwarves doesn’t mean it’s not fantasy. It still has magic, magical animals, spells, etc. Being closer to real life than Lord of the Rings doesn’t remove it from the fantasy genre. Sorry, man. It’s set in a world that’s not Earth, in a universe with seasons that last years, with undead armies lead by ice creatures, dragons, prophecies, some sort of tree/animal astral projection, and magic in general. Exactly what genre is it? >.>

  11. Ser Pounce
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 4:56 am | Permalink

    Wow Emilia Clarke, Rose Leslie and Sophie Turner are super hot. a man can only dream.

  12. Winter Rose
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:04 am | Permalink

    Lou Reed:

    That would mean book 6 should be out this summer. If that’s the case, he will likely announce the release of book 6, when the season 4 hype is declining, as to not still the focus away from the show.

    I doubt there is any chance TWOW will happen this year, let alone this summer. I mean, I would go totally insane if it did, of course. But, seriously, not gonna happen :(

    I’m hoping for mid-2015 (and this is being quite optimistic, I think).

  13. Hear Me Roar
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:05 am | Permalink

    Annie Leibovitz!

  14. Charles
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:06 am | Permalink

    The day the show catches up to the books is the day i stop watching it. Its that simple. I love the show, but the books are first and foremost for me and i’m not going to have anything even slightly ruin them.

  15. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:11 am | Permalink

    Nothing really knew in what GRRM said, honestly. He’s still saying “the show is catching up but I hope I can finish first”.

    Nothing has changed, really. Great interview, though.

  16. TheBerylfly
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:17 am | Permalink

    I will be up for coherent thought any moment now but TYWIN IN THAT ARMOUR

  17. Alex Greyjoy
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:20 am | Permalink

    If any of you think that TWOW will be out before 2016 at the earliest, you haven’t been paying attention.

  18. iggy1eco
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:27 am | Permalink

    Jack Gleeson and his deadpan sarcasm. “Hodor, good leadership qualities and sound political policy”.

    Seems legit xD

  19. vlad
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:31 am | Permalink

    I really don’t understand how GRRM thinks he can still finish before the show. A couple of days ago he announced on his blog that he finished the last part of the World of Ice and Fire. For those who don’t know, that is an encyclopedia like book, written by GRRM and the editors of westeros.org, with a lot of backstory for Westeros and the Targaryens. It was scheduled to come out last autumn (the delay is of course no shock). Anyway, they finished now, and the book will likely appear in November 2014. He is nowhere finished with The Winds of Winter, so the most optimistic date for it to come out is the autumn of 2015!!! By that time they will already have finished filming season 6!!! At that moment they will probably be on par, the show and the books, but the final 2 seasons will undoubtedly go beyond the written material.

    I really dread that moment, what will I do?? will I have the strength not to watch and wait for the final book?? I hope so.

  20. Ross
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:51 am | Permalink

    For me, the books are VERY entertaining – but not such gospel that I wouldn’t be willing to watch the show without having read them first. In fact, it would make the show more exciting not having a clue what’s coming next – we’d all be unsullied!

  21. Mike D
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:54 am | Permalink

    I am still convinced that the show will catch the books. However, I do think that TWoW will be released before the show catches up, giving GRRM sometime to finish ADoS. Given that senario, I think the series will actually have to take a 1-2 year hiatus (similar to what The Sapranos did), with the series actually culminating in a large feature film (maybe a trilogy?).

    I mean, imagine getting to see some of the tremendous battles we know will have to come with the funding of a feature film! And, more importantly, getting the chance to watch the finale of one of the greatest epic stories ever told on the big screen! I would freakin love it!

  22. Rene
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:57 am | Permalink

    Is Team Stannis also in the issue?

  23. What?
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:01 am | Permalink

    The Sopranos didn’t do that.

  24. Stannislaw
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:05 am | Permalink

    Rene,

    Nope. I personally fear the thought of D&D completing the series before George.

  25. wizardeyes
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:05 am | Permalink

    Can you buy vanity fair in the UK?

  26. Mike D
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:06 am | Permalink

    What?,

    The Sopranos didn’t do a feature film, I know, but they did take a hiatus.

  27. Ser Pounce
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:06 am | Permalink

    Mike D:
    I am still convinced that the show will catch the books.However, I do think that TWoW will be released before the show catches up, giving GRRM sometime to finish ADoS.Given that senario, I think the series will actually have to take a 1-2 year hiatus (similar to what The Sapranos did), with the series actually culminating in a large feature film (maybe a trilogy?).

    wishful thinking dude. The show won’t take a break to give gurm time to write. The guy had a three year head start since 2011 and all he completed writing is the world of ice and fire. After reading dance with dragon I’m pretty sure George doesn’t give a shit about this world anymore, I mean how many fake death scenes can you cram up into one book. three years was a whole lot of time, the same amount of years it took him to write three amazing books. No more excuses George.

  28. Satin
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:08 am | Permalink

    Mike D: I think the series will actually have to take a 1-2 year hiatus (similar to what The Sapranos did), with the series actually culminating in a large feature film (maybe a trilogy?).

    This is suggested now and then, but really, it’s not going to happen. It would be far too expensive. The huge cast. The many different countries they film in. It would be a complete logistical nightmare.

    This will end on TV, and without an interruption in writing or filming. (Also, I don’t recall it quite well, but didn’t the Sopranos simply split up showing the 6th season? It was still filmed in one go, wasn’t it? I don’t think it’s comparable, anyway, since GOT’s production is so much bigger, but it doesn’t seem a fitting example for a show taking a break in the first place. )

  29. Shmofo
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:09 am | Permalink

    Will people please stop putting pressure on poor Mr. Martin. The show hiatus would mean Mr. Martin would have to finish his book on some kind of a deadline, and the last thing Mr. Martin needs is a deadline, he’s no HBO’s bitch, he’ll finish the thing on his own pace

  30. Severance
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:09 am | Permalink

    Mike D:
    I think the series will actually have to take a 1-2 year hiatus (similar to what The Sapranos did), with the series actually culminating in a large feature film (maybe a trilogy?).

    I’m still in awe that people can be this delusional. The show will not stop for anything, least of all for slovenly George. The encyclopedia isn’t just late, as Vlad stated, but it’s virtually five years late! Six years to almost complete ADwD, and note how every reading and preview has been from the left-over chapters, mean that TWoW won’t be coming anytime soon, and ADoD won’t be written by George.

  31. Hirstfind
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    Vlad

    I know right! It’s shocking to think that the show will have finished filming its sixth season in november 2015. And with season 5 about to shoot this july undoubtedly containing the majority if possibly not all of the material in AFFC & ADWD, the sixth season will be focused on plot of TWOW – with all indications being that book six will be published 2015/2016.

    So like you I’ll be left with the decision of whether reading the book or watching the TV series will be my first experience of new material. And it’s a hard hard decision!

    I love the books – LOVE THEM – but i’ve long envied unsullied tv viewers for their enjoyment of the TV show… and if the tv show outpaced the books I don’t think i’d be able to resist watching it and then unfortunately have the reading experience i’ve enjoyed so much until now spoiled for me. Self-sabotage, but I’m weak!

    I do think it’s a possibility that HBO might film but then postpone the airing of a later, probably the final season, for twelve months or so…
    SATIN – The Hiatus wouldn’t be in filming – D&D have access to GRRM’s manuscripts – the delay would be in he airing of the series, allowing for the book to be published before series airs. but this would only buy George a year…

    Does anybody think it’s possible they’d use a hiatus like this to air a one season/mini-series about Robert’s Rebellion to keep the Throne brand on air, fill in back story, and keep viewers/TV providers/George happy?

    I agree with earlier poster, folks who are slamming GRRM for not caring about books, the characters, the plot etc are trolling at best and deluded at worst. Some readers may not be happy with the books for whatever reasons, but George’s passion for his work/ASOIAF and his endeavour to create great fiction is surely beyond rational reproach.

    Also think ASOIAF will end up being eight volumes with ADOS being published in two parts.

  32. Mike D
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    Ser Pounce,

    Maybe they will, maybe they won’t… It is definitely wishful thinking, but certainly not outside the realm of possibilities. As I said, HBO took a hiatus for it’s most popular show it ever had, the Sopranos, and made movies out of other, less successful series. I think HBO has the potential to make some serious money if they decided to make a film to end the show. Like I said, wishful thinking, but I would like this senario, because I get to finish the books first.

  33. Udi
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:18 am | Permalink

    Ross,

    Interesting perspective. I too – read the books years before there was even talk of an HBO show. I have no doubt the Tv show will catch up with the books. We have to be practical. It will be a different experience watching the show as an “Unsullied”. Also, the last two books were not that great imo so there is a good chance that the Tv adaptation of the unwritten book/s will be worth it (blasphemy, I know). Haven’t decided yet and there are still several years to go but will be an interesting dilemma when the time comes.

  34. King DBC
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:19 am | Permalink

    If the show passes the books, it’s because George let it happen. The man is a genius, but with all due respect, it seems he can’t comform to any sort of deadline. Surely, he could make his own personal deadlines instead of just saying how he doesn’t want the show to catch up! If you don’t want it to, do something about it so that it doesn’t! If it comes out this summer, he’s on track and I’ll eat my words.

  35. Lou Reed
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    Winter Rose,

    I agree. My comments were based on the fact, that George is still believing he has a chance to finish first. He could make that statement for many reasons, but most likely because saying anything else is not an option.

  36. Mike D
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    I love when people call others delusional, as though they have some special insight. I am simply stating what I would like to see happen. I mean, this is a fantasy series, is it not? What is wrong with fantasizing about fantasy? I really love the books and the show, but god damn this series draws a lot of know-it-all types. Personally, I am fine with GRRM’s pace and you’ll never hear me complain about how long it takes him so long as his writing is great.

  37. Laszlo
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:22 am | Permalink

    Mike D,

    Why would it be a feature film? They can barely fit shit into ten hours of TV, why the fuck would they even try it in less. Maybe if they did like some Lord of the Rings/Hobbit type extremely long trilogy, but I don’t see the point. If the TV format works, why would they change it to something worse.

  38. Mike D
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:29 am | Permalink

    Laszlo,

    Personally, I liked LOTR and the trilogy, so doing a feature film, or films, is something **I would like.** That’s my opinion, you are welcome to yours. I just seems to me the funding that goes along with a feature film could be useful in completing the story. I imagine lots of dragons, White Walkers and large battles in the final two books, which tend to be more expensive. I admit, I could be wrong and this is all just my opinion and how I would like to see things go.

  39. Satin
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:40 am | Permalink

    Hirstfind: I do think it’s a possibility that HBO might film but then postpone the airing of a later, probably the final season, for twelve months or so…
    SATIN – The Hiatus wouldn’t be in filming – D&D have access to GRRM’s manuscripts – the delay would be in he airing of the series, allowing for the book to be published before series airs. but this would only buy George a year…

    I don’t know what difference this would make, I mean, he still has to finish two books. Maybe three, if his wife is right.

    I don’t think it’s going to happen one way or the other from everything I know about production (which is just stuff I’ve picked up over the years, I’m not an expert).

    Now where slamming Martin is concerned… on the one hand I get why people are impatient, on the other, there is little point in it. He’ll be finished when he is finished. The show will surely overtake him, but at least to me, that doesn’t mean it’ll ruin the books. For the Unsullied, it simply means they’ll possibly read the books after the show is finished, as many I know plan, anyway, and for the Sullied, it means, for once, we know nothing.

  40. Talisa's ghost
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:43 am | Permalink

    I can’t believe Jack Gleeson, Conleth Hill and Aidan Gillen agreed to do a photo shoot. What did they sacrifice to make that happen? I bet it was that goat from the trailer.

  41. Mike D
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:51 am | Permalink

    Severance,

    Delusional?? No doubt, you certainly have a better grasp on reality than myself, but how can you consider speculation about a fantasy series delusional? If, in fact, you want to call my statement speculation. To me, I was just expressing how I would like to see things progress. I apologize if my thoughts rattled your, apparently, tenuous grasp on reality. You must be a Christian…

  42. Ser Pounce
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:52 am | Permalink

    Talisa’s ghost,

    I heard a man needed three names for the photo shoot xD.

  43. Billybob
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    Talisa’s ghost,

    My thoughts exactly.

    Really want to see the pic of the Stark kids with The Hound standing behind Arya, Hodor with Bran and Littlefinger and Varys standing behind Sansa. Looks like a cool pic.

  44. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:59 am | Permalink

    Mike D,

    Last sentence was unnecessary.

  45. Summer
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    The show will finish before Martin is even halfway done with TWOW. He such a slow ass writer.

  46. Boojam
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:13 am | Permalink

    Malcatraz: hill

    Talisa’s ghost: I can’t believe Jack Gleeson, Conleth Hill and Aidan Gillen agreed to do a photo shoot. What did they sacrifice to make that happen? I bet it was that goat from the trailer.

    Well Gleeson and Gillen have at least given interviews, so I am not surprised.
    But it was a stunner to see Conleth Hill there!
    Notice he did not appear on camera saying anything, I wonder if he did?
    That’s a fairly large group, even having Rory McCann and Gwendoline Christie.
    No Natalie Dormer ….. Liam Cunningham, Carice van Houten or Stephen Dillane …guess team Dragonstone was busy?

  47. intransigence
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    This could possibly be the worst idea ever, but a possible solution would be for HBO and the producers to say ‘cheers GRRM but we’ll take it from here’ and craft their own ending, potentially using the broad brush strokes provided by George, but essentially their own version of how things close. Would allow everyone to watch/read unsullied and potentially give us two brilliant closures for the price of one.

  48. Boojam
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:38 am | Permalink

    It would be glitchy but I wish George would could work his wished for 5 year advancement into the story.
    It’s been obvious , visually and affectively , for a long time now that the children characters are now young adults, no if ands are buts! Heck Sophie has looked like a young adult since season 1! I think she is now 18.
    The story , as it is, right now, works with young adults as characters so just go with the flow.

  49. Mike D
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    haltwhogoesthere,

    I suppose.

  50. Michael Tschuertz
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    they just say they will finish it with 7 or 8 seasons.

    Did they not?

  51. Bill
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    Charles:
    The day the show catches up to the books is the day i stop watching it. Its that simple. I love the show, but the books are first and foremost for me and i’m not going to have anything even slightly ruin them.

    Agreed.

    I love the books so much. Worried they are going to get spoiled.

  52. Billybob
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    Bill,

    How do you plan to give up using the internet for years?
    It will be impossible to avoid all social media, there is no point in trying to avoid it IMO. The books and the show are different, the show will end first and it will end slightly differently to the books.

    I look forward to seeing how Game of Thrones ends in 2018, then I will get married, have two or three kids and then look forward to seeing how ASOIAF ends :)

  53. House Olivegarden
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    Just think, after Season 5 next year, we could possibly ALL be unsullied…,

    I still think they could and probably will need to save some ADWD material for S6, even with a lot of changes i just cant see how its possible, tyrion has far too much content, cersei, hopefully the iron born, dorne and everything else i just cant see them being completely caught up next year.

    Not to mention Jon Snow, Arya, Hopefully LS & Jeyne Poole, just way too much

  54. Boojam
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    Michael Tschuertz: they just say they will finish it with 7 or 8 seasons.

    Did they not?

    As long as HBO is pulling in the bucks, I don’t think they care.
    But I get the impression that Dave and Dan have other projects they want to do and don’t want to be tied up forever.
    Have to wonder what contract with HBO they have?
    Do they want control till the end or can they be bought out?
    One thing, boy!, 8 seasons, if it comes to that, is a long time for a show of this magnitude.

  55. andy smith
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Whoever does the photo editing for vanity fair should be fired , the picture of the cast has been superimposed onto the background of the wall and icy ground but they have not removed the grass from the right hand side or the bottom left of the picture

  56. Tenesmus
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Someone should just load a truck full of cash, drive it to Brandon Sanderson’s house, and tell him he has to finish TWOW and ADOS in 18 months. He could do it. And George can get back to running his movie theatre.

  57. Josh Atreides
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Sayin’ it: Sophie Turner is hot.

  58. Steel_Wind
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    I firmly believe that:

    Game of Thrones will end in 2018, before ADoS is published;

    GRRM will finish ADoS a year or maybe two years after the series is complete. He will announce that the series made significant changes to HIS ending, and that readers will be surprised that the series and books diverge, sometime radically.

    There will, in the end, be essentially TWO endings. And we will line right up and slurp up the hype — and the book — in astonishing numbers.

  59. Greenjones
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    Josh Atreides,

    Indeed. And these are show costumes so we’ll see that outfit there.

  60. Pandzien
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    Hounded:
    Emilia Clarke is so annoying!

    Why you think so? I think she is quite adorable.

  61. Ser Pounce
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    Josh Atreides,

    Bro she is definitely hot. Sophie fanboys eheh

  62. King Tommen
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    For those who say that they won’t watch the show once it overpasses the books, when we get there, drop us a line and let us know how that’s working out for you.

    Words are wind.

  63. Balerion The Cat
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    Can someone tell me what Emilia says at the end of her first interview about her and Jorah? English is not my first language so I’ve never heard those words before and have no idea what they mean.

  64. Turncloak
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    I feel pity to those who think D&D will waste seasons 5 and 6 on AFFC & ADWD. We already are getting ADWD material this season! AFFC and ADWD will be wrapped up by next season. D&D will take a flaying knife and cut the fat of the book they way George’a editors should have. No wasted time with fodder like journeys to see Nimble Dick.

  65. Storks of Winterfell
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    http://i.imgur.com/oT4jxuY.jpg

    You don’t see these people posing a photo together everyday.
    Also laughed at Bran sitting on Hodor’s laps taller than him.

  66. Severance
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    Mike D:
    Severance,

    Delusional?? No doubt, you certainly have a better grasp on reality than myself, but how can you consider speculation about a fantasy series delusional? If, in fact, you want to call my statement speculation.To me, I was just expressing how I would like to see things progress.I apologize if my thoughts rattled your, apparently, tenuous grasp on reality.You must be a Christian…

    If you’d expressed yourself better in the first place, we might’ve avoided this misunderstanding. Originally you stated that HBO has to put the show on hiatus – now, it appears, you were just expressing a wish or desire. That’s fair enough but, really, it’s never going to happen. I ‘d really wish George would hurry the **** up, but I doubt that”ll happen either.

    Oh, and the remark about religion wasn’t necessary. If you must know I have no interest in religion whatsoever, but I’d never slight those you believe.

  67. queenofthorns
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    Dude why are ya’ll arguing about George, these videos/article were tons of fun and should be discussed!

    It’s pretty adorable how partisan the actors are. Most people back the most obvious leader from their sphere of influence (Tyrion/Cersei/Tywin are for Tyrion, Dany/Jorah are for Dany, Ygritte is for Jon, etc). And then you have the “fuck it all” people like Jaime/Brienne/HODOR.

    Everyone looks so awesome in the shoot. The Dany spread is the kind of thing that would have sent me into spasms of fangirlish glee a couple years ago but now I’m spoiled lol.

  68. Brian
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    All George seems to care about is wrting the battle of Mereen from about fifteen different point of views…I see no evidence he’s written any further than that and THAT is alarming.

  69. Hollyoak
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    Ross:
    For me, the books are VERY entertaining – but not such gospel that I wouldn’t be willing to watch the show without having read them first.In fact, it would make the show more exciting not having a clue what’s coming next – we’d all be unsullied!

    Ugh. I kind of have to agree. While I’ve read the books (I’ve only read Feast and Dance once, and the others twice) I can’t keep up with people here who know all the details, as if they just read the books yesterday or have great memories. (I still don’t know who Jon Connington is.)

    I mean, Dance left me thoroughly confused and so did those chapters in Feast where Dany was in Meeren or wherever and everyone was named Krazyns-mo-whatever. Or maybe that was Dance. See what I mean! LOL) And what about that dude in feast? Whats his name? I’ll look it up…Alleras, the Sphinx?

    If the TV show can condense these things and show me what happens I’m all for it. I’ll still, one day, after GRRM finishes all the books, go back and read them all.

    I swear, do the people that know these books like the back of their hands read them several times, or do you just remember all this stuff?

  70. Adam Whitehead
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    vlad:
    I really don’t understand how GRRM thinks he can still finish before the show. A couple of days ago he announced on his blog that he finished the last part of the World of Ice and Fire. For those who don’t know, that is an encyclopedia like book, written by GRRM and the editors of westeros.org, with a lot of backstory for Westeros and the Targaryens. It was scheduled to come out last autumn (the delay is of course no shock). Anyway, they finished now, and the book will likely appear in November 2014. He is nowhere finished with The Winds of Winter, so the most optimistic date for it to come out is the autumn of 2015!!! By that time they will already have finished filming season 6!!! At that moment they will probably be on par, the show and the books, but the final 2 seasons will undoubtedly go beyond the written material.

    One of the co-writers expanded on this on the Westeros website.

    The book was mostly completed early last year, with GRRM handing over a ton of material and notes. The editors and his co-writers then integrated that material with the text (this is when some got shaved off for the future ‘GRRMarillion’, which will definitely not appear before the end of the series). In the meantime GRRM went off and – apparently – devoted his writing time 100% to TWoW. Everything else was delayed, cancelled or put to one side. There’s been some editing done on the next WILD CARDS book, but otherwise GRRM has had nothing on his plate but TWoW since last spring.

    At some point, either late this year or the start of this, they decided they needed more material on some things, apparently including the ironborn. So GRRM filled that in and sent that off, and that has effectively completed the writing part of the book.

    So, GRRM has not been working on TWoIaF non-stop since ADWD came out and is only now starting work proper on TWoW. Although GRRM’s blog post was rather unclear on this point. He’s had a lot of time to work on TWoW. We just have zero idea (due to a lack of updates) on how effective that’s been and how much that has added to the word and page count of the novel.

    Mike D:
    I am still convinced that the show will catch the books.However, I do think that TWoW will be released before the show catches up, giving GRRM sometime to finish ADoS.Given that senario, I think the series will actually have to take a 1-2 year hiatus (similar to what The Sapranos did), with the series actually culminating in a large feature film (maybe a trilogy?).

    Benioff and Weiss have specifically, 100% ruled out any kind of hiatus, whether a clean break or a break for a prequel/side-series. It’s just not happening.

    Ser Pouncethree years was a whole lot of time, the same amount of years it took him to write three amazing books.

    What three books were those? Certainly not AGoT/ACoK/ASoS, which took about eight years to write (which is still more than twice as fast as he is managing now).

    Boojam:
    But it was a stunner to see Conleth Hill there!

    Hill was also interviewed for Bryan Cogman’s Season 1/2 companion book. I think he’s not keen on doing interviews, but he will occasionally do them, if only to keep people guessing ;)

    Boojam:
    Have to wonder what contract with HBO they have?
    Do they want control till the end or can they be bought out?

    Benioff and Weiss have two-year contracts. There was a contract renegotiation before the renewal of Season 3 (which is why that was late), and another is due before Season 5 is commissioned, which may also delay things.

    Typically HBO want the same showrunners to stay on board for the duration; if the showrunner leaves, they will cancel the show rather than carry it on. They did try an experiment with TRUE BLOOD to see if they could carry on without the original showrunner, but that doesn’t seem to have panned out well.

  71. KG
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    I am amused and vaguely fangirlish* that they’ve sorted Brienne into the Lannisters. Awwwww ^_^

    *And we know that’s a rare thing.

  72. KG
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    He does wear it well, doesn’t he?

    TheBerylfly: to explore that and have an opinion of it from the inside, but I just feel like this character, Tyrion, was a complete human being. Shock!”

    Vanity Fair has also release

  73. Adam Whitehead
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    And what about that dude in feast? Whats his name? I’ll look it up…Alleras, the Sphinx?

    That was:

    Alleras the Sphinx is actually Sarella Sand, one of Oberyn Martell’s daughters, going into the Citadel incognito as a man (her name is reversed). Her goals/objectives are unknown. Prince Doran later says that Sarella is playing ‘a game’ he seems to disapprove of, but it’s unclear what that might be. All of the other Sand Snakes seem to have plans to avenge Oberyn’s death by destroying King’s Landing/the Reach/Oldtown, so it might be that Sarella is doing something to bring down either Oldtown or the Citadel in particular to embarrass the Tyrells.

  74. KG
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    But not confirmed.

  75. David The Grey
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    Very nice. I could watch them do cast photos in their costumes to the tunes of GoT themes all day! And their quick answers were fun. So very easy to listen to and enjoy, each of them.

  76. Severance
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:42 am | Permalink

    The old ‘reverse your name’ ploy – worked well for Count Alucard, didn’t it.

  77. Alex Greyjoy
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    In the meantime GRRM went off and – apparently – devoted his writing time 100% to TWoW. Everything else was delayed, cancelled or put to one side. There’s been some editing done on the next WILD CARDS book, but otherwise GRRM has had nothing on his plate but TWoW since last spring.

    May I ask you how do you know it?

  78. Ser Bro
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    You are all petulant children and even though I love these books, I wouldn’t blame George if he just stopped writing them because all of his “fans” turned into cruel, demanding shitbirds and expect him to lock himself in his office instead of, ya know, having a life.

    None of you are writers or artists of any sort. You’re all trolls and I hope your computers explode.

  79. Boojam
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    Is this issue of Vanity Fair on the stands (well books stores, any stands left?) now?
    Cause these are ‘behind’ the scenes shots, not finished shots , except the cover (I guess the cover shot is a complete?).
    But other compositions , I don’t think we have seen those yet.

  80. Tori Targaryen
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    I’m happy to see they are not planning on milking the series dry, it shouldn’t last longer than 8 seasons… Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see more, but they are right that the quality would diminish. All good things must come to an end.

    However, they could do a prequel series about the days of The Children and the First Men :p lol

  81. Wolfdog
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    Boojam,

    I think it’s for the April issue.

  82. Hollyoak
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead: That was:

    Alleras the Sphinx is actually Sarella Sand, one of Oberyn Martell’s daughters, going into the Citadel incognito as a man (her name is reversed). Her goals/objectives are unknown. Prince Doran later says that Sarella is playing ‘a game’ he seems to disapprove of, but it’s unclear what that might be. All of the other Sand Snakes seem to have plans to avenge Oberyn’s death by destroying King’s Landing/the Reach/Oldtown, so it might be that Sarella is doing something to bring down either Oldtown or the Citadel in particular to embarrass the Tyrells.

    Thanks, Adam. See what I mean!? How did you come up with that? Off the top of your head or did you have to go and look it up? I HAD NO IDEA THIS DUDE WAS A GIRL. Hey, Dude looks like a Lady.

    The dedicated fanbase here and elsewhere amazes me. I really need to read the books again, and then read the chapter summaries at Tower of the Hand, so I can understand what I just read. LOL.

  83. Hollyoak
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    Ser Pounce:
    Adam Whitehead,

    Okay Mr. Know it all it certainly didn’t take 8 years total for the first three novels. it took a total of 5 years for first three awesome books, and still no excuse for George not to finish one novel in 3 years. Now stop being a dick rider.

    How do you know how long it takes to write a novel? Are you a novelist? I am. And it took me over a year to finish my novel that will be published next year by Clarion Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. And the novel I wrote has NOWHERE near the depth and characterization of GRRM’s work.

    Now, I say, Good day, Sir!

  84. Adam Whitehead
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    Alex Greyjoy,

    As said by Ran/Elio on Westeros.org on the entire forum dedicated to the world book. Also, GRRM said last year that everything was going on the backburner or being thrown out altogether apart from TWoW, WILD CARDS and the final edits to the world book.

    GRRM might have been lying, but he’s generally either ‘fessed up to mistakes (like taking on too many side-projects post-ADWD) or gone into total radio silence over an issue when it proves contentious.

    Ser Pounce,

    GRRM started writing AGoT in the summer of 1991. He stopped for about 18 months to work on a TV show, then resumed work on AGoT. AGoT-ACoK-ASoS were originally supposed to be one novel and were pretty much written as one, with each book broken off and published when the MS became far too long (so a lot of ACoK was done before AGoT came out, and a lot of ASoS before ACoK was published). So yes, they took about 8 years to write (over a period of 9).

    This is extremely common, extremely basic knowledge. Trying to say they were written over a period of just 3 years or even 5 is pure ignorance, or a simple lie.

    Hollyoak,

    There is a very good clue towards it:

    Doran mentions Sarella as being in Oldtown and being up to something. We hear a prophecy about a sphinx being up to know good and involved in ‘a riddle’. And GRRM shows us ‘Alleras the Sphinx’ in both the prologue and the final chapter, so it’s something that a lot of people put together. A lot of other people miss it. It’s like Renly and Loras’s relationship, though the Sarella/Alleras thing is a bit easier as it’s contained in just one novel.

  85. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    Benioff and Weiss also reveal that the show’s lifespan may be shorter than the public originally thought, or would like. They would like to wrap the show up after seven or eight seasons.

    Judging by the overall feelings of people on these boards, the true, realistic desire of fans is indeed 8 years. Most of those here, including in the long discussion on the one post I did, seem to realize that. There are some clamoring for 9 or 10 seasons, but that’s just not realistic. Seven seasons would seem to undercut it a bit (though if that’s what we get, that’s what we get), but anything more than 8 is really wishful thinking.

  86. Azurecobalt
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    I don’t suppose HBO would film the last season(s) and not show them until after the books were released (especially if George is close and only has one book left to release)? Wishful thinking, perhaps :)

  87. Ser Pounce
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    Hollyoak,

    I’m not a novelist, but I’m a solider in the us army got divorced at 23 last year and living paycheck to paycheck. simple life you know.

  88. Boojam
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:15 am | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead: Hill was also interviewed for Bryan Cogman’s Season 1/2 companion book. I think he’s not keen on doing interviews, but he will occasionally do them, if only to keep people guessing ;)

    I can’t remember or think there is a single on camera interview with Hill about GOT.
    Not even a comment by him in the season extras.

  89. Sean C.
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    Azurecobalt:
    I don’t suppose HBO would film the last season(s) and not show them until after the books were released (especially if George is close and only has one book left to release)? Wishful thinking, perhaps :)

    Not a chance. They would lose subscribers, and be left with a multiyear liability without revenue to compensate for expenditures.

  90. Cumsprite
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    Everything’s going on the backburner? Really? I suppose that includes his new distraction, the Cocteau theatre. Or cancelling his convention appearances. Skipping the NFL draft and eschewing Sunday/Monday/Thursday football. Or any surprise appearances to accept some nothing award on behalf of HBO, because Lord knows George Martin hates the attention.

    See? I can be a pedant, too.

    Martin will never give up his side projects. He’ll quit on them, sure. But he just replaces them with something else. When he runs into the next Mayonnaise Knot, he’ll diddle around with the shamelessly named GRRMarillion or moot up with his Wild Card buddies. GRRM. GRRM never changes.

    You are, quite clearly, trying to put everything GRRM has done in the best possible light so you can continue taking the piss out of people who don’t toe the line. If you want to do that, that is fair enough, but if it continues many will wish you did it somewhere else, since it constitutes trolling.

  91. GeekFurious
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    Malcatraz:
    Dude.GEORGE. Work harder, PLEASE.

    Saying this is like saying “Body, please lose weight faster than humanly possible” while on a diet. IT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN JUST BECAUSE YOU KEEP SAYING IT.

    So please stop saying it. It’s more annoying than waiting.

  92. Adam Whitehead
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    Azurecobalt:
    I don’t suppose HBO would film the last season(s) and not show them until after the books were released (especially if George is close and only has one book left to release)? Wishful thinking, perhaps :)

    No. However, the final season would have several benefits over earlier ones. Without the need to write and prep the following season, it might be possible to extend the season in length (say to 12 or 13 episodes). The fact that work on the subsequent season needs to start before the current one airs (i.e. Season 5 is probably already fully or mostly written right now) is what limits production time. Without that, they can make a few more episodes. However, post-production is apparently also a killer, so more eps might only be doable as long as some of them are not effects-heavy.

    The other possibility is moving the show to another timeslot. With both TB and BE finishing, GoT could be moved to later in the year. That would be a one-time deal only and would only give GRRM a few more months, which might not be decisive. It’d also have to make economic sense for HBO.

  93. Greg
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    andy smith:
    Whoever does the photo editing for vanity fair should be fired , the picture of the cast has been superimposed onto the background of the wall and icy ground but they have not removed the grass from the right hand side or the bottom left of the picture

    Dude that’s a rocky cliff on the shore. I hope you’re on a smartphone, otherwise you need an eye doctor appointment asap

  94. GeekFurious
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    Azurecobalt:
    I don’t suppose HBO would film the last season(s) and not show them until after the books were released (especially if George is close and only has one book left to release)? Wishful thinking, perhaps :)

    That’s actually something I posited some time ago. I could see them doing that out of respect for GRRM. HBO is not like other networks/studios. They waited years between SOPRANOS seasons.

  95. Govnor
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    Unless HBO is willing to delay (not sure why they would to be honest), the show will pass the books. It’s going to happen.

  96. Adam Whitehead
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    Everything’s going on the backburner? Really? I suppose that includes his new distraction, the Cocteau theatre. Or cancelling his convention appearances. Skipping the NFL draft and eschewing Sunday/Monday/Thursday football.

    So your position is that no-one should have any spare time? When you do a job, you do it from 8am to midnight and you cannot do anything else, at all?

    See? I can be a pedant, too.

    It’s not really a question of being pedantic. It’s a question of people either 1) making stuff up, or 2) lying.

    If you don’t want to be corrected, don’t make stuff up and don’t lie. It’s very simple.

    You are, quite clearly, trying to put everything GRRM has done in the best possible light so you can continue taking the piss out of people who don’t toe the line.

    And I did that where?

    Someone said that the first three books took three years to write (which is clearly impossible, as they took longer than three years just to come out). That’s incorrect. I merely corrected that with actual timescale involved.

    ‘Correcting a mistake’ and ‘taking the piss out of people’ are two different things.

    If you want to do that, that is fair enough, but if it continues many will wish you did it somewhere else, since it constitutes trolling.

    Actually, it does not. It constitutes adding to the discussion by posting accurate and verified information, and challenging unsubstantiated claims and disinformation.

    On the other hand, your post definitely constitues trolling. You want to take everything GRRM says in the worst possible light, to the point of making bizarre and unsubstantiated claims (watching TV in the evening twice a week interferes with someone’s day job; making a post advertising what’s going on in your business which is run by other people takes all day, apparently), then get shirty when they are challenged. I suggest getting some perspective.

    Also, you are not a moderator here. Please do not act like you are one.

  97. Doug
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    They’re going to pass him and it’s no one’s fault but George. I’m not saying you can rush art, but you mean to tell me he can’t write just 250 words a day? No 250 words in a 24 hour period, really?

    Had he done that he’d have had 91,250 words by the end of 2012, finished book 6 by the end of 2013, and be through act 1 of book 7 right now.

  98. House Mormont
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    I think it’s alarming that he’s just like “oh yeah it’s alarming” when he could have made that conclusion back when the show was in production and he hadn’t even released adwd and actually done something…

    But also, these pictures are awesome. Lena and Emilia look gorgeous

  99. Sean C.
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    GeekFurious: That’s actually something I posited some time ago. I could see them doing that out of respect for GRRM. HBO is not like other networks/studios. They waited years between SOPRANOS seasons.

    There is not a chance that HBO is going to delay showing a finished product that they’ve spent $100 million on, costing them revenue, out of “respect” for George R. R. Martin. The delays in showing The Sopranos were caused by contractual and production issues.

  100. Hollyoak
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    Ser Pounce:
    Hollyoak,

    I’m not a novelist, but I’m a solider in the us army got divorced at 23 last year and living paycheck to paycheck. simple life you know.

    Well thank you for your service, Sir. I just thought it was kind of rude to call Adam Whitehead names when we’re all fans with different points of view/knowledge when it comes to the books.

    Stay safe out there.

  101. Roosebolton
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Can’t resist throwing in my two-cents here…

    The show WILL conclude before books. Its an absolute guarantee. Accept it.

    BUT…don’t worry about it.

    Just deal with that one is the TV show and one is the books. In the opening credits it reads “Based on the books by slow poke”, and they have gone in different directions in some ways and fiercely loyal in others. The TV show is great, the books are great (well not so much Book 5, but that’s a different thread). Each is its own art and has to be appreciate only against that medium. Game of Thrones is one of the best TV shows of the past five years, and hopefully the next 3-4 years, and that’s all it has to be. HBO, D&D, the crew, heck I would even guess most of the cast, is only concerned with “Did we make a good, entertaining and profitable show?”

    With HBO continuing to make seasons five, six and seven, we will watch things that aren’t in books. Many things in the books will NEVER be on the TV show. Kingsmoot? uh-huh. Arianne’s queen making plot…unlikely. Davos looking for Rickon …forget that. Betcha it will still be an awesome TV show.

    LoTR, Hobbit, Comic-book movies, all of these differ from the source material. It doesn’t diminish one or the other.

    I will faithfully watch the conclusion of this wonderful TV show in 2017..maybe 2018. And I will be there first thing when the bookstore opens it doors selling ADoS in 2021.

    Vote Roosebolton in 2016!!

  102. Paul
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    I think as fans we have a right to be upset about the delay between books but what we don’t have a right to is to bully and harass GRRM. I hope he can get TWOW out in 2015 before the production of season 6 gets into full swing.

  103. Cumsprite
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    So. Wait. Expressing an opinion that someone is trolling constitutes backseat modding? You can probably scroll up and find a few people calling someone a troll. And yet you haven’t accused them of it. Why me, pumpkin?

    Anyway, if you read my post again, you’ll see I never said what I think George Martin should do with is spare time. Quite honestly, I don’t care much. It’s fun to watch people go with some variation of “not your bitch” when someone suggests Martin has not given the books of ASOIAF a higher priority.

  104. Ser Pounce
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Hollyoak,

    It’s all good and I’m sorry didn’t mean to be a total d-bag. anyways I love ASOIAF novels and tv show as much as any other fan. I guess I’m part of the spoiled generation that just wants more.

  105. House Mormont
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    Also idk why everyone thinks this show would be awful if HBO finishes it before the books are out

    D&D have written some bad scenes, but if you notice, most of those are trying to make all the extraneous characters in there with no noticeable personality relevant. Pod, Osha etc.

    D&D have wrote amazing scenes with the main characters, especially the “two people in the room have dialogue” scenes. And we all love B Cog’s writing. And if HBO hires any other writers, great, HBO shows have had some of the best writing around.

    Meanwhile Martin’s last well received piece of work was published fourteen years ago. Don’t get me wrong the man can write beautifully subtle internal thoughts, and his diction and description was magnificent in the first three books, and he’s the best world builder I’ve ever read the work of… but the world is built, the locations and the characters are all there now.

  106. cosca
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    Roosebolton,

    If ADOS is ever released, George will probably need an 8th book anyway. The tv series ending is likely the only ending we’ll ever get.

  107. Ill
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    <font><font>Silverstormm</font></font>:
    Co się stało z blond Lannisterami? Jaime jest bardzo ciemny blond i Cersei / Tyrion wyglądać czerwonych głów! Bleach to twoi ludzie znajomy. Lub peruki. Lub bielone peruki?

    read book ;]

  108. Adam Whitehead
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    They’re going to pass him and it’s no one’s fault but George

    This I agree with. After the precedent of the AFFC/ADWD situation, it was really not a good idea immediately post-ADWD to take on a whole bunch of other commitments. If it was just the books at stake, that would be one thing (though still frustrating for fans) but with the TV show underway as well, completing the books should have been more highly prioritised. Especially since GRRM seems to build up a good head of steam as he completes each book and carrying that through to the next one (as he did with AGoT/ACoK/ASoS due to the less-planned divisions between each book) would be highly advisable, rather than dissipating that by doing other things, or going on very lengthy world signing tours. I can appreciate after six years of working on a project you want to do something else, but in this case it’s just stored up trouble for later on.

    Basically, now I can’t see how the TV show does not overtake. In fact, it’s now a question over whether TWoW can get out before the TV show overtakes, let alone ADoS. This could have been avoided with better planning earlier on.

  109. Rygar
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    View the two as separate. The show has its story, the book theirs. Who cares what finishes first?

    Haven’t you all either read a book first, then watched an adaptation, or watched an adaptation and then read the book(s)? One or the other must have been good enough where you would care to take part in entertaining yourself the other half? We know the books are good. We know the show is good. Fear not, bitches.

  110. Lord Davos
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    haltwhogoesthere,

    I think he meant it follows as medieval drama, instead of fantasy perversions like tons of useless fighting and paper thin archetypes.

  111. Hizdar for President
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    Hey, Those aren’t Danys dragons in that picture. They are different. Someone should go to westeros.org and cry about it and threaten to boycott the show and Vanity Fair. LoL … WiC.net rules, David and Dan rule, the show rules, Vanity Fair suddenly rules and George should continue “not being our bitch” and continue to avoid finishing the book series so that the show catches up and we will no longer have to be his bitch either. I can’t wait.

  112. Lord Davos
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    Ser Pounce,

    One would think you knew the three first books took 9 years.
    If he doesnt care anymore, why is he making a world book?

  113. Rygar
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    No disrespect, but to only contrbute here with an Authoritative stance to set the masses straight when there is any hint of detraction is doucebaggy as you clearly try to dismiss anyone’s speculative thoughts as fast as you can. I dub thee, the Mouth of GRRM.

  114. Roosebolton
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:23 am | Permalink

    cosca,

    In my heart of hearts, I truly doubt I’ll see a written conclusion to ASoFaI, but after 18 years all you can do is hope.

  115. Hounded
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    Pandzien,

    I think she reminds me of this really annoying girl I know. The movement of her huge mouth and eyebrows just unsettles me and her personality just seems weird and she always seems really fake and over-animated in interviews.

  116. Ludo
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    I’m disgusted by what I am reading here.

    All people complaining here, do you realize how much hate you spite against George R. R. Martin ? Yes, a lot of comments here are hateful. You hate someone that makes you dream. You hate someone who has created one of the best fictionnal worlds ever, that will be remembered years after his death. What the f***, please wake up already ! This man has written the most amazing saga of fantasy ever. No, it’s not finished yet, but HE IS NOT DEAD YET. And even if he wanted to stop now, it is his right. He has the right to take his time, he has the right to be tired, he has even the right to quit. When you pressure someone everyday by hateful comments like the ones I can read here, it’s not surprising that this person will just become tired of all this.

    You are not even grateful for what he did.

    If you have some time for yourself, do something constructive. Write your own book, make your own band, learn an instrument, do some sport. Or, I have another idea, read A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons again, because it seems to me that you didn’t understand them at all. Saying that the first 3 books were excellent and that books 4 & 5 were bad is pure bullshit.

    What you really like about books 1, 2 and 3, it’s that they are full of big events. Big things happen ! Yeah, battles, yeah dragons, yeah character deaths. Yes, it’s excellent, but after that George started to go deeper into the real battles in life, the battles inside ourselves. And that’s what AFFC and ADWD are about.

    The inner struggles of Cersei, Jon Snow, Daenerys, Tyrion, etc…

    You didn’t even understand all the prophecies and stuff, did you ?

    Things like : “When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east” means “when Quentyn Martell will travel to the east and meet his end there” It’s one example among hundreds. Alleras is another.

    Do you realize how difficult it must be to write books like that ?

    So here is what I propose. Before complaining like dumbass children, please :

    – Make something of your life and see how difficult it is.
    – Try to re-read the novels in order to really understand them.
    – Stop hating so much the man that makes you dream.

    Sorry for the bad english, it’s not my mother tongue.

  117. Adam Whitehead
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    Rygar,

    I fail to see how challenging misinformation is ‘douchebaggery’. I think creating misinformation and spreading it as fact falls much more into that description.

  118. Lord Davos
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    Tenesmus,

    I want to keep that man as far away from anything I reads. No thanks.

  119. Veltigar
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    Rygar:
    View the two as separate. The show has its story, the book theirs.Who cares what finishes first?

    Haven’t you all either read a book first, then watched an adaptation, or watched an adaptation and then read the book(s)?One or the other must have been good enough where you would care to take part in entertaining yourself the other half? We know the books are good.We know the show is good.Fear not, bitches.

    I would prefer that the books finish first. That’s where I got started for one thing, but the books are also better than the show. That being said, if the show finishes first than I won’t bitch about it. I hope both show and books get the ending they deserve. I think we’ll all be pretty lucky if that happens.

    And soon the show will have Mads Mikkelsen as Euron :p That should put this discussion at rest indefinetly :p

    Let me tell you something. There’s no nobility in poverty. I’ve been a poor man, and I’ve been a rich man. And I choose Mads Mikkelsen as Euron every fucking time.

  120. Ser Pounce
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Lord Davos,

    Well I was wrong I was thinking about the release dates from 1996 to 2000 time line. so yes I didn’t know that he started building the world in 1991. I guess its preference, I prefer to know who Jons mom is and where Bran ends up rather than take a tour through westeros history book.

  121. House Mormont
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Hounded,

    I think if you are unsettled and annoyed by a beautiful woman being kind and happy then that says more about you than her… and it’d be a better idea to say something insightful on the article than to attack her… just maybe

    Rygar: Haven’t you all either read a book first, then watched an adaptation, or watched an adaptation and then read the book(s)? One or the other must have been good enough where you would care to take part in entertaining yourself the other half? We know the books are good. We know the show is good. Fear not, bitches.

    preach

  122. Ser Lucas
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    Ginger Lannisters.

  123. Rygar
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    Veltigar

    Fair enough. And I’ll give you Mads just for today. Bigger Fish to fry. ;)

  124. Ser Lucas
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    Hounded,

    The movement of her huge mouth and eyebrows unsettles me as well. In a different way. ;)

  125. cosca
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    Ludo,

    Sorry GRRM, you won’t get off the hook that easily, you fat lazy bastard

  126. Rygar
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    Alan,

    Bring back Winter!!!!

  127. Knurk
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead: It constitutes adding to the discussion by posting accurate and verified information, and challenging unsubstantiated claims and disinformation.

    like you did with the Anderson story and claiming GRRM was finished with tWoIaF in 2013. You keep claiming to know all kinds of shit and pop up everywhere to correct everyone, yet you have no inside knowledge whatsoever. You read his blog and the Westeros forum, from there on you speculate with those facts and present them like you are the mr. know-it-all. That can certainly constitutes to douchebaggery in my eyes.

    Also, I was huge fan of your aDwD-progression thread at Westeros.org back in the day.

  128. Lollius Palicanus
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    Ludo,

    This. Thank you.

  129. Ser Lucas
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    If only this season’s posters were that well made…

  130. Shmofo
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    Mr Werthead

    There is no need for you to pop up in every (and it’s literally every) thread in the wide internetz to defend ad nauseam anything GRRM related. You have your own censored Westeros, where you can ban anyone and delete any posts slightly critical of GRRM’s books, GRRM and his (lack of) work ethics. A little North Korea of your own. You and your pals are doing a really great job in Censoros, I congratulate you how you keep your flock of sheep in order (no thread of the TWOW release date for example, here and there it appears, just to be promptly closed, and the sheep are fine with it), but the rest of the internet shouldn’t be devised on your Northkorean model. It’s a free world out there. And let’s keep it this way.

  131. Lollius Palicanus
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    cosca:

    Sorry GRRM, you won’t get off the hook that easily, you fat lazy bastard

    Stop trolling yourself, GRRM.

  132. Ser Lucas
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    cosca,

    Oh I pity you.

  133. Strider
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    That was uncalled for! Unworthy of you. The man expresses himself in a way that bothers many. But it is after all his own opinion, even though many times is mixed with facts. He’s allowed to do it here and anywhere else he pleases. He believes what he says, and defends what he believes to be accurate. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.
    Since when did wic become such a place when you cannot defend Martin? If I want censorship, I can always register again at Westeros, you know?!

  134. Chris
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    Emilia is so stunning <3

  135. Winter is not coming
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    i love seeing them together

  136. Hounded
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    She is very beautiful… when she’s not talking.

  137. Adam Whitehead
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    Adam Whitehead,

    See?There you go again.Its pedantic and obnoxious. Clouded in your own sense of righteousness.People can form opinions civilly based on what we perceive.We dont always need to be repremanded.

    You seem to be strawmanning here. If there is stuff to be speculated about – what happens in TWoW, what will happen in the final seasons of the TV show, what happens when they overtake, should GRRM collaborate with another writer to help get through the last books, should he have kept in the five year gap – that’s great. Speculate away. I’ll join in, no problem at all. Let’s throw some ideas together.

    When people post 100% factually incorrect information like it’s fact, then there’s an issue there. It is not pedantic to say, “No, this is what actually happened.” If anything it helps the discussion. Ser Pounce even acknowledges above he made a mistake, which is great and the discussion can move on.

    What you seem to be saying is that you want the right to post something incorrect, claim it is correct, and then not have to deal with people correcting you because you don’t like it.

    If we’re dealing with purely subjective speculation and opinions though, have at it. One of the most enjoyable things about WiC is seeing people’s differing ideas on casting, the overtaking argument etc and other things where everyone can bring a perspective and idea to the table.

    like you did with the Anderson story and claiming GRRM was finished with tWoIaF in 2013. You keep claiming to know all kinds of shit and pop up everywhere to correct everyone, yet you have no inside knowledge whatsoever. You read his blog and the Westeros forum, from there on you speculate with those facts and present them like you are the mr. know-it-all. That can certainly constitutes to douchebaggery in my eyes.

    Oh, my inside info is quite limited (though I have met GRRM on multiple occasions, interviewed him on another, met TV castmembers, have corresponded with HBO over the Wiki and have an acknowledgement in the books). What I have done is kept track of everything that’s happened in the writing of ASoIaF to date due to upkeeping the ‘progress report’ threads on Westeros for a decade, which is a great way of keeping perspective over the whole situation (though not for maintaining sanity).

    Again, “You’re being a douchebag,” is not a viable response to, “Stop correcting me when I post BS.”

    There is no need for you to pop up in every (and it’s literally every) thread in the wide internetz to defend ad nauseam anything GRRM related. You have your own censored Westeros, where you can ban anyone and delete any posts slightly critical of GRRM’s books, GRRM and his (lack of) work ethics. A little North Korea of your own. You and your pals are doing a really great job in Censoros, I congratulate you how you keep your flock of sheep in order (no thread of the TWOW release date for example, here and there it appears, just to be promptly closed, and the sheep are fine with it), but the rest of the internet shouldn’t be devised on your Northkorean model. It’s a free world out there. And let’s keep it this way.

    Having just seen quite a few weeks’ worth of threads dedicated to criticising GRRM on several levels (some of which I agree with, namely on the mishandling of the PR front), that’s quite an interesting statement.

  138. Dolorous Ned
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, the show will definitely overtake the books.

    I’d like to be more optimistic, but when the first time GRRM mentions TWOW in years he refers to it as “SON OF KONG” (gulp)”, it doesn’t really spread optimism.

    Still, the level of hate and douchebags trying to raise their little egos by hating on a writer, just because he doesn’t meet their writing speed requirements is way too high on this thread.

    Someone must have opened a portal to iswintercoming.com

  139. Lord Davos
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    Both is douchie. We are not your bitch.
    We got a passion.

  140. Veltigar
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    Veltigar

    Fair enough. And I’ll give you Mads just for today.Bigger Fish to fry. ;)

    Just a perfect day, drink Sangria in the park and then later… :D

    I think I’m going to buy a lottery ticket! Feeling lucky y’all :D

    Remember those posters that said, “Today is the first day of the rest of your life”? Well, that’s true of every day but one – the day D&D cast Mads Mikkelsen as Euron.

  141. Lord Davos
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    This thread is the most intense battle since Baelor Breakspear and Dunk fought the trial of seven.
    Youall apparently back from the dead.

  142. cosca
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    Dolorous Ned,

    The problem isn’t that he doesn’t meet writing speed requirements. The problem is that he isn’t writing tWoW at all. He’s running his cinema, going to conventions and working on encylopedia’s and other side projects, all while promising that he’s working on tWoW and stringing fans along.

  143. Knurk
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead: Again, “You’re being a douchebag,” is not a viable response to, “Stop correcting me when I post BS.”

    it is if you correct people’s BS with BS of your own.

  144. Lord Davos
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    Dolorous Ned,

    Son of kong dont compare to King kong really. That one was three bitches and a bastard.

  145. Joshua Atreides
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    Jesus Molly in the Garden how this site has fallen.

  146. Lord Davos
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    Grrumblers, go rumble out in the jungle shooting kong to pieces. He was fine before you came, but now you go after son of kong too! Get a living.

  147. Brightroars_Bane
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    As a novelist myself, I find his pace pretty inexcusable. I wrote and edited a book about a third the size of ADWD in a year. All with no financial gain and balancing a second job. So when you don’t have a second job–in fact, when you’ll make millions the second you get the book out–there’s no reason it should take longer than three years per book. In fact, it should probably take less.

    All the work that goes into a book–planning, outlining, figuring out the timing of events–is something that goes on in a writer’s head all day long. When people say “Give him time, I’d rather read two good books in ten years than two okay ones in six,” be assured a writer can create a good book in three. It’s not a matter of how many years it takes, but how many hours the writer devotes to that book over the years. If I’m ever fortunate enough to write a hit like ASOIAF, I hope I don’t fall into the trap of thinking I’ve got infinite time to write sequels. That’s not a good way to treat your fans, who made you successful in the first place.

  148. Ours is the Fury
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    Keep your comments civil, please. Revisit the moderation and spoiler policy if you’ve forgotten the rules here. Thanks.

  149. Shmofo
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    Having just seen quite a few weeks’ worth of threads dedicated to criticising GRRM on several levels (some of which I agree with, namely on the mishandling of the PR front), that’s quite an interesting statement.

    Care to post a link where on Westeros one can discuss the release date of TWOW, or is this a discussion noone, really noone among the mass of GRRM fandom, is interested to discuss. Really, I mean really?

    As far as I am concerned, this says it all. You are the moderator on Censoros, and this says enough about you, too, as far as I am concerned, though.

  150. Cumsprite
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Atreides:
    Jesus Molly in the Garden how this site has fallen.

    And I ain’t even gotten into the liquor cabinet yet!

    Never fear folks! If someone gets the time between books wrong, Adam will be there! If you express your hope that HBO goes on a hiatus, Adam will be there! Thinking about gently nudging someone who said The Sworn Sword was the second D&E story? Relax, Adam’s got it covered.

    Whether it’s Amazon, io9, NPR, Vulture, Westeros, WiCnet, YouTube, Goodreads, Barnes&Noble, Twitter or reddit, Adam does all the work so you don’t have to!

  151. Cumsprite
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    Keep your comments civil, please. Revisit the moderation and spoiler policy if you’ve forgotten the rules here. Thanks.

    I know, right? Mr. Whitehead was a meany and called me a troll. Hold me, I am scared.

  152. cosca
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Atreides,

    What’s wrong with a bit of healthy debate?

  153. Adam Whitehead
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    Cumsprite,

    Outrageous.

    I don’t have a Reddit account ;)

  154. Ser Pounce
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    this is like watching that one guy try to tame a dragon and gets roasted.

  155. Throner
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Sorry if this has been mentioned before I didn’t have time to sift through the thread.

    Even if the show gets to filming season 6 before the release of TWOW, I think it will still be quite close to the source material (other than the character/storyline cuts inevitably happening in season 5). If TWOW is not published by then I think its safe to say George will have the majority of the manuscript complete and either discuss it at length with D&D or perhaps even allow them to read what he has completed. For the seasons containing DOS material however I think D&D will just have to follow the broad strokes they went over with George about the ending.

  156. Hollyoak
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    Ser Pounce:
    Hollyoak,

    It’s all good and I’m sorry didn’t mean to be a total d-bag. anyways I love ASOIAF novels and tv show as much as any other fan. I guess I’m part of the spoiled generation that just wants more.

    No worries, bro! This show makes us all nuts! Just look at us!

  157. Atomix
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    The best thing to ease concerns is after season 5 or 6 the show takes a year off of Ice and Fire and does a prequel season. There is so much material in compendiums and short stories and in the details and remembrances of characters in the source books. Robert’s Rebellion. Tales of Dunk and Egg. The Princess and the Queen – Dance with Dragons – even the Blackfyre Rebellion or the Conquest of Westeroes.

  158. Alex
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

    Wow. It’s like readimg a debate between children and an adult.

    I appreciate Adam Whitehead’s comments as they are grounded in reason and well structured. Other voices seem too have little understanding of the reality of writing a book or making a TV series, and seem to barely understand what ASOIAF is all about.

    Also, to those who think ADWD was slow, boring and pointless, try to understand that it is essentially a political thriller, full of intrigue and plotting, not action. It is probably to subtle for most. Read Adam Feldman’s blog to understand it.

    FWIW, I think Season 5 will take up most of FeastDance, but bring in elements of TWOW culminating in Daznak’s Pit, the Battle in Ice, Walk of Shame and Daggers in the Dark. And it will be awesome. TWOW will come out sometime after that.

  159. Shutsuejiputoki
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    haltwhogoesthere,

    Yes, I agree! It’s definitely fantasy. There’s dragons, Daenerys can’t be burned by fire (dragon blood), the white walkers, etc on top of all that you mentioned. Filed under Realistic Fiction it’d just cause confusion.

    btw it says you can comment using Twitter but no way to sign in.. looked all over the site…

  160. Shutsuejiputoki
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    Brightroars_Bane,

    You can’t use yourself to claim that his pace is “inexcusable.” Some people are different. There are always that one person(s) who take longer to do X than someone else. If there was reason totally leaving out the pace itself to accuse him of hardly working on the book, that would be different. Some people struggle. He may have writer’s blocks, change things, tweaking over and over, etc.

    Personally I’m someone who can’t even get a short book off the ground, and I’m not of another species, so I can easily imagine him taking those years. It’s been that way, before the millions for him. Empathy~

  161. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    We aren’t entitled to either the books or the show. Personally, I’m grateful for both. Nobody forced GRRM to sign over the rights to HBO and risk being overtaken, but I’m glad he did because it means we have the show. If or when the show overtakes the books, it’ll be OK. There will still be some differences and the books will still flesh things out more.

    Don’t expect HBO to delay the show. They’re a business and their priority is to continue making their most popular show, not to placate fans of the books. That’s just how it is. I’d like to get the books first too, but if it doesn’t happen. Oh well. It just means I get to go back to being unsullied like I was during season 1.

    I do think GRRM’s strategy of not giving progress reports is backfiring big time. It might be a good idea for him to tell fans where he is at currently without making any commitments about how long it will take to finish. That being said, constantly complaining isn’t going to make these books get finished any faster. Let’s be grateful that we have the show to occupy us while we wait.

  162. cosca
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    Alex,

    Yes, clearly you are the intellectual elite, we’re just too stupid to appreciate the subtlety of Tyrion watching turtles and Dany squatting in the grass. Calling ADWD a political thriller is laughable. AGOT was much closer to a political thriller, many of the Dance chapters have nothing to do with politics and plotting at all.

  163. Cumsprite
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead:
    Cumsprite,

    Outrageous.

    I don’t have a Reddit account ;)

    ZING! Nice.

  164. Hirstfind
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Doug,

    You’re obviously not a writer – 0r at least an experienced one.

    You’re equation is a tad simplistic as you ‘re not taking into account time for envisioning and dreaming up the plot and character development, working long hours on scenes, rewriting those scenes; encountering necessary (and time-c0nsuming) dead-ends and wrong turns, reworking what doesn’t work and then writing some more, letting all that sit and percolate… then rereading and redrafting manuscript, more redrafting… removing paper piling up in waste-paper basket…resharpening pencils/replacing pen…. re-re-re-repeat ad infinitum. It’s no easy life and no quick process!

    Peace brother.

  165. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    Shmofo:
    Adam Whitehead,

    Care to post a link where on Westeros one can discuss the release date of TWOW, or is this a discussion noone, really noone among the mass of GRRM fandom, is interested to discuss. Really, I mean really?

    As far as I am concerned, this says it all. You are the moderator on Censoros, and this says enough about you, too, as far as I am concerned, though.

    Calling it Censeros is a little immature. Nobody is taking away your freeze peach. Their site, their rules. There have been times I thought the moderation was heavy handed too but I like that unlike reddit or Gawker sites they keep away trolls and harassers. Somebody sent me an abusive PM once and the mod that was on duty banned him right away. I appreciated that.
    By all means, argue passionately about the topics, but name calling over books and TV shows is super childish. There’s no need for so many of us to be doing so.

  166. ShadowStalker
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    Thanks for posting the facts. Reading through this thread I haven’t found you to be acting out of line. People need to calm down and not take things too seriously.

    … wait… this is the internet… land of misinformation and home of incivility.

  167. Lord Stannis's Soul
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    Joshua Atreides:
    Jesus Molly in the Garden how this site has fallen.

    There is no Molly in the Garden with Jesus.

  168. Alan
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    Alan,

    Bring back Winter!!!!

    Hah! It’s all inevitable. Once a message board gets popular, it slips into mass stupidity. Look at Westeros — what started out with a bunch of great, textual-based analysis has turned into random wild speculation and angry arrogance.

    There’s so much certainty here backed by a complete lack of critical thinking.

    I also find it funny my post gets deleted for calling generic people assholes, but people can call Martin a “fat, lazy, bastard.” Ok, that makes sense.

    There’s nothing quite like the amazing combination of arrogance and ignorance you find on the internet.

  169. Adam Whitehead
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    Throner:
    Sorry if this has been mentioned before I didn’t have time to sift through the thread.

    Even if the show gets to filming season 6 before the release of TWOW, I think it will still be quite close to the source material (other than the character/storyline cuts inevitably happening in season 5). If TWOW is not published by then I think its safe to say George will have the majority of the manuscript complete and either discuss it at length with D&D or perhaps even allow them to read what he has completed. For the seasons containing DOS material however I think D&D will just have to follow the broad strokes they went over with George about the ending.

    That’s what happened with ADWD: GRRM was giving Dan and Dave incomplete manuscripts back when they were filming the pilot and planning the series in 2009-10, so I assume the same process is happening now. Unless GRRM’s progress has been more diabolical than has been let on, that should cover them fully to the end of Season 5 (though not us, if we see the conclusion of one or both of the big battles at the end of S5).

    Nobody forced GRRM to sign over the rights to HBO and risk being overtaken, but I’m glad he did because it means we have the show.

    There is this point. Some people have said he should have waited and done it when the books were done. Maybe, and maybe HBO would still have been interested. But we wouldn’t have gotten Maisie Williams as Arya, Isaac Hempstead Wright as Bran, Sophie Turner as Sansa or Jack Gleeson as Joffrey (at least), as they’d have all been far too old. And, even as someone who enjoys the books, I think that would have been regrettable. It’s even intriguing having the possibility of being able to sit down and watch Season 6 or 7 or 8 and not have a good idea of what’s going to happen that hour.

    It’s also worth considering the unthinkable: if the ending really sucks and GRRM pulls a worse-than-LOST ending on us (I don’t think he will, but it’s worth considering) and we get a hint of that on TV, it might lead to changes for the better for the books. Not many writers to get to beta-test the conclusion to a novel to a global audience of tens of millions.

    I do think GRRM’s strategy of not giving progress reports is backfiring big time.

    Whatever gives you that idea? ;)

    There’s nothing quite like the amazing combination of arrogance and ignorance you find on the internet.

    Don’t be too hard to the internet, there’s tabloid newspapers, Fox News and the British Parliament to consider as well.

  170. Hirstfind
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    Brightroars_Bane,

    As a novelist myself, I find his pace pretty inexcusable….

    Not actually the sort of thing a novelist, proper writer would say or believe to be true, I’m afraid.

  171. Roxie
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

    Hounded,

    Hate to say it but, I agree. I was such a fan of hers Season 1. Half way through season 2 I was really becoming annoyed with her. She is her Father’s Daughter. BSC

  172. Cookie
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    Alex:
    Wow.It’s like readimg a debate between children and an adult.

    I appreciate Adam Whitehead’s comments as they are grounded in reason and well structured. Other voices seem too have little understanding of the reality of writing a book or making a TV series, and seem to barely understand what ASOIAF is all about.

    My thoughts exactly. This thread is certainly an… interesting… read.

  173. MM
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    So to sum up (although much of this information is not new), based on this information and other interviews, etc. floating around:

    1. Seven or eight seasons maximum (assuming no cancellation).
    2. GRRM has said in a recent interview with a Brazilian newspaper no TWOW released in 2014, maybe 2015.
    3. There will be no hiatuses from filming to give GRRM time to catch up.
    4. Season 5 will cover AFFC/ADWD, although Season 4 covers AFFC/ADWD material in some measure at least for Brienne and Theon, and Lena Headey has suggested in an interview that she thinks her ADWD penance walk, which takes place far into ADWD, will be in Season 5.
    5. The showrunners (and Bryan Cogman) have had a very detailed summary of where things are going for “every character” since that 2013 meeting.
    6. Assuming the show will start dipping into TWOW material in Season 6 and no earlier (and given the show’s pace in burning through material, I don’t know that we can assume that), GRRM has until the spring of 2016 to release TWOW to stay ahead of the show.
    7. Assuming the show runs the full eight seasons and only touches on ADOS material in the final season, GRRM has until the spring of 2018 to stay ahead of the show. Assuming seven seasons, GRRM only has until the spring of 2017 to stay ahead of the show.

    …I think GRRM has a decent chance at staying ahead of the show for TWOW; he has almost two years to release that book. I think he’s pretty much screwed when it comes to ADOS, though, unless the show is cancelled first; I don’t see any way he’ll manage to stay ahead of the show, whether it’s seven seasons or eight.

  174. Severance
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    Cookie: My thoughts exactly. This thread is certainly an… interesting… read.

    Unfortunately it’s a thread that wouldn’t be possible on any other board so, personally, I’m all for a chance for apologists and detractors to have a dig at each other. Makes for better reading than the last two half-books!

  175. Lord Davos
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    cosca,

    All of the chapters are political.
    Even Stark ones.

  176. MM
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    Also, now that I think of it, the showrunners/HBO will have to start planning pretty far in advance whether the show will have seven seasons or eight. It’s not like they can write Season 7 not knowing whether there’s going to be a Season 8. I almost think the prudent thing to do would be to know the number of total seasons planned before work on writing Season 6 starts (which would be in late 2014/early 2015), but I don’t know if that’s possible in terms of HBO’s policies when it comes to renewals, etc.

  177. cosca
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,
    “we have very little tolerance for posts expressing the thought that George owes it to his fans to complete the current book or the series as speedily as possible or that are complaining about how fast he writes. Again, if you harbor such feelings, keep them off of here. Posts along the lines of the above have been deleted. Those who disregard this warning may face further moderator action. ”

    Explain to me how this isn’t censorship. This is from a moderator, in a thread speculating about TWOW’s release that was subsequently closed.

  178. cosca
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos,

    The Bran chapters in ADWD are not political in the slightest, neither are the Arya ones.

  179. Ser Pounce
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    What is this censoros place? I’m way too out of the loop but this debate about it is pretty interesting.

  180. Jacob
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    I would like to add that its not just about GRRM anymore. Literally thousands of people depend on his story for jobs. I would hope that helps to motivate him, especially since he has worked in the TV industry before.

  181. Phil
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    I really think a lot of people would not watch the show if it continued past the books, unless Martin just says he’s not going to write them. This show isn’t like The Walking Dead where they aren’t really following the books at all. Despite some massive changes (I’m looking at you Dany’s season 2 storyline) the majority of the plot is the same. So yeah, even though the ending would be expanded on in the books, we’d still know pretty much what happens. HBO would risk loosing viewers, and the publishers and Martin would risk losing money for the books (even just with people who would normally read the books anyway but would just still be pissed about the show ending/overtaking the books).

    Yeah, Martin’s been slow in the past, but that was mostly before the show. I believe he really doesn’t want the show to be ahead of his books, and even though we haven’t heard anything, I’m thinking 2015 for Winds, and that he’s made Winds more plot than Feast/Dance, so it’ll take another 2 seasons to get though Winds, which, added to the fact that D&D are moving things around, will give him another 3 or so years to get out the final novel.

    Unless, of course, he’s just given up and will have the show finish it off and never do the rest of the series in book form

  182. Lord Davos
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    cosca,

    Then define politics.
    Seems too me that concerns forces bigger than yourself.
    And its not like they are going to sit around rotting in a hole, are they?

  183. Kilgore Tully
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    My goodness, what a thread! Like an epistemological nerf war.

    Allow me to throw my pen into the, “I’m a writer, I have important insights on writing!” pool.

    Writing is a fickle thing, and next to impossible to force. Some writers–journalists come to mind–are capable of writing on command, but with the example of journalism, there is a method to paring information into a standard news story. The more creative a piece gets, the more the writer needs to be inspired. Good writing comes from The Zone, and is hindered by thinking too much. Telling a writer to hurry makes them think about how fast they are going while they write, which one cannot do in The Zone.

    I don’t know how GRRM likes to write, but with such a huge world, it makes plenty of sense to me that he would spend a majority of his “writing time” world building. Maybe the number of completed, narrative Winds of Winter pages would be disheartening out of context, but the words and pages are just the paint job on a much deeper process.

    The fact that GRRM hashed out every single character with D&D means the story is more or less in place. The encyclopedia thinger shouldn’t be seen as a “delay,” it should be understood to mean GRRM has finished all the important pieces to the world. He’s working on a gigantic project and it is wildly unfair to measure his progress with page counts.

    I think it is very unlikely the books finish before the show, but it is not implausible. For all we know, GRRM is taking long with Winds of Winter because he is mapping out the entire structure of the endgame at once, and Dream of Spring will be the fastest book written because it’s already layed out.

    And I would watch the show if it overtook the books. The most important lesson I have ever learned as a writer is that words are overrated.

  184. Adam Whitehead
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    Also, now that I think of it, the showrunners/HBO will have to start planning pretty far in advance whether the show will have seven seasons or eight. It’s not like they can write Season 7 not knowing whether there’s going to be a Season 8. I almost think the prudent thing to do would be to know the number of total seasons planned before work on writing Season 6 starts (which would be in late 2014/early 2015), but I don’t know if that’s possible in terms of HBO’s policies when it comes to renewals, etc.

    I think D&D want 8 seasons/80 episodes. They’ve been very clear on this in the past. The recent switch to saying either 7 or 8 makes me think that HBO have said they’ll definitely get 7 but 8 is going to be a tough sell. Maybe not impossible, but it’s not guaranteed in the same way that HBO could (barring a total catastrophic overnight collapse of the show’s popularity) potentially guarantee 7. I think that puts them in an awkward situation where they either have to plan for both (which is unrealistic past a certain point, probably before writing Season 6) or they have to assume it’s going to be 7 and potentially rush things, but when they get there HBO might say, “Oh, the show’s bigger than ever, plan for 8 instead.”

    If you want a good example of how that can screw things up, look at BABYLON 5 which was supposed to be five seasons but the producers were told that the fourth season would be the last, so they wrapped up everything that year. And then another station stepped in and picked up the show, and they were left having to add a whole lot of filler and expand small storylines across half the final season to make it work. There were some good episodes in there, but in terms of pacing it was a complete mess.

  185. Omar Brown
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    At fleabottom.net we have a topic called “how screwed is GRRM really?” I should say he is beyond screwed but proper f***ed.

    No hiatus, no delay. The show is a well oiled machine that wont stop for anyone, even if GRRM is laying down in front of it.

    How much you wanna bet that whatever he told GRRM that week is totally off from the final book? He seems like he would do that.

  186. Alan
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    cosca:
    Alex,

    Yes, clearly you are the intellectual elite, we’re just too stupid to appreciate the subtlety of Tyrion watching turtles and Dany squatting in the grass. Calling ADWD a political thriller is laughable. AGOT was much closer to a political thriller, many of the Dance chapters have nothing to do with politics and plotting at all.

    Plenty of people find Dance to be a fantastic book. It’s my second favorite in the series, and upon another re-read, it may move to first.

    It’s a character development book. If you like that sort of thing, it’s going to be one of your favorites. If you are a plot person, or read for “bad-ass” moments, it’s probably not too high on your scale (though I’d submit that there are plenty of those in the book, too).

    I happen to like both, but find the latter tiresome and pointless without the former. It’s not a judgement; it’s just what I like to read. You apparently, don’t, and that’s fine.

    What bothers me is your inability to separate personal preference and overall quality. And you do it in a manner that is intentionally insulting and degrading to others. (And don’t say he started it; that’s what six year olds do.)

  187. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos,

    I know what he meant, and he is wrong. Having fleshed out characters and more “medieval drama” qualities doesn’t exclude it from being fantasy.
    King Tommen,
    Please. Not everyone’s life is so saturated by popular culture that they can’t avoid seeing or hearing about the show. If I don’t want to be spoiled on something, I don’t get spoiled on it. I hardly watch television and none of my friends watch the show. If they do, they’re not talking about it. I will not watch when the show catches up, and it will work fine.

    Anyway, my reasons for not wanting to watch the show when they catch up is this comment that they are planting seeds. I much prefer books over television, even if a given book has a lot of filler. I also don’t trust them not to mess up things that I will like in the books. The RW convinced me. I thought it was a pile of trash when held next to the book version. Knowing that they are planting seeds makes it impossible for me to enjoy the show because I will constantly wonder what changes indicate something about the plot. And then once the show is ahead of the books, I wouldn’t be able to enjoy the books because the show would always be in the back of my mind. I started reading after season 2, so I know how having knowledge of the plot beforehand affects my reading/enjoyment of the book. Even though 1 and 2 were better books than 4 and 5, and I know that, I still had a better reading experience with 4 and 5 because they weren’t tainted with the show’s version.

  188. Alan
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead: I think D&D want 8 seasons/80 episodes. They’ve been very clear on this in the past. The recent switch to saying either 7 or 8 makes me think that HBO have said they’ll definitely get 7 but 8 is going to be a tough sell. Maybe not impossible, but it’s not guaranteed in the same way that HBO could (barring a total catastrophic overnight collapse of the show’s popularity) potentially guarantee 7. I think that puts them in an awkward situation where they either have to plan for both (which is unrealistic past a certain point, probably before writing Season 6) or they have to assume it’s going to be 7 and potentially rush things, but when they get there HBO might say, “Oh, the show’s bigger than ever, plan for 8 instead.”

    If you want a good example of how that can screw things up, look at BABYLON 5 which was supposed to be five seasons but the producers were told that the fourth season would be the last, so they wrapped up everything that year. And then another station stepped in and picked up the show, and they were left having to add a whole lot of filler and expand small storylines across half the final season to make it work. There were some good episodes in there, but in terms of pacing it was a complete mess.

    I imagine HBO would love 8, 9 or even 10 seasons. Hit shows are hard to find.

    Completely viable reasons for 7 instead of 8:

    * D&D are tired. The rest of the crew is tired. This thing is super hard work. There’s a reason David Chase took a hiatus — something D&D don’t seem to want to do — but I expect at some point these guys want to do something else, or possibly nothing for a while.

    * Actor contracts. There may be a re-negotiation point where the actors can either grab most of the profits or even just that they simply don’t want to spend 8 years of their lives doing it. If the contracts are through season 7, HBO may not want to deal with 8.

    * I suppose if HBO’s subscriber base is shrinking rapidly, that could be another issue, but I doubt that’s true.

    Otherwise, I expect HBO is making bank, and a hit show is not something to ever let die unless the creators want it to die.

  189. Hollyoak
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    Jacob:
    I would like to add that its not just about GRRM anymore.Literally thousands of people depend on his story for jobs. I would hope that helps to motivate him, especially since he has worked in the TV industry before.

    That’s a really interesting thought, Jacob. Unfortunately, though, I don’t think our dear George can consider this when it comes to his creative output.

  190. Alan
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    Kilgore Tully:
    My goodness, what a thread! Like an epistemological nerf war.

    Allow me to throw my pen into the, “I’m a writer, I have important insights on writing!” pool.

    Writing is a fickle thing, and next to impossible to force. Some writers–journalists come to mind–are capable of writing on command, but with the example of journalism, there is a method to paring information into a standard news story. The more creative a piece gets, the more the writer needs to be inspired. Good writing comes from The Zone, and is hindered by thinking too much. Telling a writer to hurry makes them think about how fast they are going while they write, which one cannot do in The Zone.

    I don’t know how GRRM likes to write, but with such a huge world, it makes plenty of sense to me that he would spend a majority of his “writing time” world building. Maybe the number of completed, narrative Winds of Winter pages would be disheartening out of context, but the words and pages are just the paint job on a much deeper process.

    The fact that GRRM hashed out every single character with D&D means the story is more or less in place. The encyclopedia thinger shouldn’t be seen as a “delay,” it should be understood to mean GRRM has finished all the important pieces to the world. He’s working on a gigantic project and it is wildly unfair to measure his progress with page counts.

    I think it is very unlikely the books finish before the show, but it is not implausible. For all we know, GRRM is taking long with Winds of Winter because he is mapping out the entire structure of the endgame at once, and Dream of Spring will be the fastest book written because it’s already layed out.

    And I would watch the show if it overtook the books. The most important lesson I have ever learned as a writer is that words are overrated.

    What a reasoned, personal opinion.

    I’m with you. Some writers are fast (James Patterson), some are slow. Some have a higher quality threshhold. Some require massive re-writes. Some need better editors, and perhaps Martin has too much editorial power now.

    I have no idea if Martin spends enough time on TWOW or even what that means. Perhaps he was burnt out on the series. Perhaps he spends ninety percent of his time on it. Perhaps he spends 10%.

    What I do know is you can’t really judge by the contents of his blog, which is what people seem to be doing. And you also can’t expect someone to work 24/7. The comments about blogging about football — as if that is some huge time suck — are inane at best.

  191. Rygar
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    Keep your comments civil, please. Revisit the moderation and spoiler policy if you’ve forgotten the rules here. Thanks.

    So fart jokes are not allowed?

    Come on sister! You know me better than that!

  192. Cumsprite
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Calling it Censoros is spot on. Recently there was a thread concerning a rumor about a release date for TWOW. A poster suggested someone ask George Martin to confirm or deny it on his NAB. A moderator forbade anyone from “pestering” Martin about it. Not only do they strictly control the subject matter on their forum, they would also like to govern your behavior outside of it. That’s pretty damned sad.

  193. Absalom Crane
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    Shmofo:
    Mr Werthead

    There is no need for you to pop up in every (and it’s literally every) thread in the wide internetz to defend ad nauseam anything GRRM related. You have your own censored Westeros, where you can ban anyone and delete any posts slightly critical of GRRM’s books, GRRM and his (lack of) work ethics. A little North Korea of your own. You and your pals are doing a really great job in Censoros, I congratulate you how you keep your flock of sheep in order (no thread of the TWOW release date for example, here and there it appears, just to be promptly closed, and the sheep are fine with it), but the rest of the internet shouldn’t be devised on your Northkorean model. It’s a free world out there. And let’s keep it this way.

    “Censoros”
    Brilliant! Elio/Ran and his mod team are pretty bad when it comes to that. Seen it happen too many times, to myself but most often to others, and not just for criticism of GRRM but on so many threads.
    However, I would not say Werthead is the cause; Adam was for a long time a moderator at another forum I used to frequent (until it pretty much fizzled out after the series it was dedicated to finally completed) and I never noticed any censorship there, from Werthead or others.

    Don’t blame the North Korean mentality of Elio’s little fiefdom on Adam Whitehead. Two very different people, one is a swelled-head having site owner, the other is a damned good Blogger. I check The Wertzone every single day.

  194. asfastasican
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    Can someone do me a favor and photoshop a Winds of Winter book cover and put the caption “From the story of HBO’s hit tv series GAME OF THRONES” or “What? You didn’t see the show yet?” Man, the tears of the book fanatics are going to be so delicious.

  195. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    cosca:
    WeirwoodTreeHugger,
    “we have very little tolerance for posts expressing the thought that George owes it to his fans to complete the current book or the series as speedily as possible or that are complaining about how fast he writes.Again, if you harbor such feelings, keep them off of here.Posts along the lines of the above have been deleted.Those who disregard this warning may face further moderator action. ”

    Explain to me how this isn’t censorship. This is from a moderator, in a thread speculating about TWOW’s release that was subsequently closed.

    Because Westeros.org is a private site and its administrators have the right to moderate the forums any way they want. If you don’t like the comment policies, that’s fine. You can speculate about the release here or on reddit or facebook or wherever else you like. You can even start a WordPress blog for free if you want. It’s not like Elio is sending jackbooted thugs to your door or ordering a drone strike on your house.

  196. Kilgore Tully
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    Alan: What I do know is you can’t really judge by the contents of his blog, which is what people seem to be doing. And you also can’t expect someone to work 24/7. The comments about blogging about football — as if that is some huge time suck — are inane at best.

    Seriously. Blog posts, by nature, risk being unedited whims. And these books would absolutely suck if GRRM didn’t have a life. I’m pretty sure he has such a rich and diverse conception of his world because he enjoys so many facets of ours.

  197. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    Comparing Westeros to North Korea is pretty much the same as Godwinning.

    Having a comment deleted or getting banned from an internet forum =/= having your government starve you, send you to labor camp, or kill you and your family.

    Get a grip.

  198. Steel_Wind
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger:
    We aren’t entitled to either the books or the show.Personally, I’m grateful for both.

    This has the scent of a Gaimanesque diatribe and I would like to cut it off short.

    We aren’t entitled to the books or the show — and they are not entitled to our money, either.

    Now, that we have THAT out of the way…

    Notwithstanding that pronouncement on our respective entitlements, I promise you, however, that despite their not being ENTITLED to that money, HBO and producers of licensed GoT merchandise — all over the world — have:

    1- planned budgets based upon the reasonable assumption of YOUR demand for the product;
    2- have granted security interests over assets based upon that reasonable expectation of YOUR demand;
    3- have otherwise arranged their financial affairs on the reasonable expectation of YOUR demand.

    In short, while THEY might claim not to be entitled to your money — their LENDERS sure as hell ALREADY are.

    Now can we please STOP all this amateur name calling by people unsophisticated in business matters about the unreasonable sense of entitlement of fans, that somehow pretends that the commercial machine that is Game of Thrones does not exist, that it doesn’t have a schedule, and that is doesn’t have a lot of money that relies upon all of this rolling out and being released like clockwork?

    Because it sure as hell 100% does and no, that is NOT a guess.

    Maybe an author who no longer has to pay his rent with future advances against royalties can deliver a book “when it is done”, but the rest of the world operates on another and VERY different set of assumptions.

    Now, can we move on?

  199. patchface
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    Bran is still wearing that stupid wig lol

  200. King of the Ashes
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    Mike D:
    Severance,

    Delusional?? No doubt, you certainly have a better grasp on reality than myself, but how can you consider speculation about a fantasy series delusional? If, in fact, you want to call my statement speculation.To me, I was just expressing how I would like to see things progress.I apologize if my thoughts rattled your, apparently, tenuous grasp on reality.You must be a Christian…

    hey, i agree Mike, that was wrong… but lets not Christian bash… has nothing to do with anything. thats like me randomly picking a religion or people group to blame for ignorance.. and yes, before you guess that i’m a christian or a black male… i am both.

  201. Absalom Crane
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead:What you seem to be saying is that you want the right to post something incorrect, claim it is correct, and then not have to deal with people correcting you because you don’t like it.

    Sounds like they are taking a play from the Republican playbook.

  202. Rygar
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    Come join the loveable dregs of GRRMs society at Fleabottom. net. We love you.

  203. Alex Greyjoy
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    Ludo,

    You hate someone that makes you dream.

    I don’t know about the others here, but I don’t hate him. I don’t have any respect for him for the last couple of years, but that’s entirely different thing.

    You hate someone who has created one of the best fictionnal worlds ever, that will be remembered years after his death. What the f***, please wake up already ! This man has written the most amazing saga of fantasy ever. No, it’s not finished yet, but HE IS NOT DEAD YET.

    He hasn’t finished it yet, so let’s not jump to conclusions about TEH BESTEST THING EVAR. It definitely started amazing, however I have strong doubts, based on the last two books, that it’ll end in any satisfying fashion (or end at all). Let’s say, I’ve read FINISHED book series that were just as good, if not better.

    You are not even grateful for what he did.

    Why should we be grateful for what he did? Did he write the books as a favor to someone? Does he give them out for free? Does he cure cancer with his books?
    He wrote several books which a lot of people liked a lot. He started a book series and hasn’t finished it. ASOAIF is an unfinished product. People don’t like to pay for unfinished products, or in the case of books series – for those with an uncertain finishing date.
    I enjoyed those books enough to read the first four several times. I’ve read the fifth one once and don’t intend to read the whole book ever again, because some parts of it make me want to use brain bleach in order to erase some of what I’ve read from my brain.

    If you have some time for yourself, do something constructive.

    Does PhD count?

    Or, I have another idea, read A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons again, because it seems to me that you didn’t understand them at all. Saying that the first 3 books were excellent and that books 4 & 5 were bad is pure bullshit.

    Thank you for your learned opinion, but I will strongly disagree. Those two books are not entirely terrible, they have good parts, but they also have a lot of bad parts. As I said before, ADWD has some parts that shouldn’t have been printed at all. All the good parts in both books could’ve been condensed into one really good 500 pages long book.

    Do you realize how difficult it must be to write books like that ?

    Having just finished writing a PhD dissertation, I do realize. So?

    So here is what I propose. Before complaining like dumbass children, please :

    – Make something of your life and see how difficult it is.
    – Try to re-read the novels in order to really understand them.
    – Stop hating so much the man that makes you dream.

    Watch your language, young person.
    – I made something of my life. It is difficult for those of us who have to work for the living.
    – No, I understood them well enough on the previous three re-reads. There’s only so many times I can read about pink red masts, myrish swamps, turtles, Daario’s cock or Dany shitting and hallucinating in the middle of nowhere.
    – I’d suggest you to relax.

  204. Worthing
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    Phil,

    I think you’ve got it backwards. GoT is HBO’s most-viewed show since The Sopranos, and will probably surpass that show’s peak ratings this season. GoT averaged 13.6 million weekly viewers last season just in the US, according to Vulture. While there are certainly lots of readers in that group, the entire series had sold an estimated 15 million copies *worldwide* at the time of ADWD’s release. By last September, they were up to 24 million worldwide for all five books. You can see the obvious delta there. Even if every reader decided not to watch the show once it passes the books–and that’s going to be a threat on which very few carry through–HBO won’t worry about losing them, nor should they.

  205. MM
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    Werthead, that’s a good point about HBO possibly putting the showrunners in an awkward position when it comes to planning for future seasons. From what I understand, the writers start planning and writing for the season about a year and a half before it airs, so that would mean that the writers would be starting in on Season 6 in late 2014/early 2015. If they don’t know by that point how many total seasons they’ll have, I’d expect the writers to play it safe by loading up Season 6 with as much post-ADWD material as possible in case they only get one additional season to wrap the story up. Even in the event that the writers learn early on that they’ll be getting eight seasons, I’d expect the pacing from here on in to be pretty darn brisk; four seasons to cover four books’ worth of material (AFFC/ADWD/TWOW/ADOS), or even three seasons to cover two books’ worth of material, assuming Season 5 burns through all of AFFC/ADWD, is not a lot of time.

    I’d be very doubtful the writers would be waiting overly long for news about whether GOT would get eight seasons. It’s not, like, say, True Blood, which generally has fairly contained season-long arcs and where the writing for the current season won’t depend on news on renewal for the next.

  206. Mr Fixit
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead:

    If you want a good example of how that can screw things up, look at BABYLON 5 which was supposed to be five seasons but the producers were told that the fourth season would be the last, so they wrapped up everything that year. And then another station stepped in and picked up the show, and they were left having to add a whole lot of filler and expand small storylines across half the final season to make it work. There were some good episodes in there, but in terms of pacing it was a complete mess.

    Ah yes, Babylon 5. The decision to finish the heavily serialised show early only for it to get the fifth season after all screwed not only the last season, but S4 as well. The culmination of four years-worth of plot was incredibly rushed -Shadow War and Earth Civil War especially and then Season 5 had little ground to cover and consisted of way too much filler.

  207. Ros' Merkin
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    Steel_Wind: This has the scent of a Gaimanesque diatribe and I would like to cut it off short.
    …..
    Now, can we move on?

    Tell it.

    And no, I’m enjoying the flames of Rhollor far too much for anyone to move on just yet. So please keep it up, at least until I’ve roasted a few more marshmallows.

  208. Cersei's Brain
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    Ser Pounce,

    Yes you are spoiled like a lot of us. Meow

  209. Adam Whitehead
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    Absalom Crane: However, I would not say Werthead is the cause; Adam was for a long time a moderator at another forum I used to frequent (until it pretty much fizzled out after the series it was dedicated to finally completed) and I never noticed any censorship there, from Werthead or others.

    Where was that? Dragonmount, I’m guessing?

    As for the censorship thing, I did argue against it very strongly, as I thought it would simply drive discussion off-site, to the setting up of other forums without any direct links to GRRM, and a resulting split in the fanbase (something I’ve seen happen before, to various TV show, video game and book forums). This is then exactly what happened.

    On the other hand, if unregulated discussion of the issue had continued at Westeros in the same vein beyond the 3-4 years we allowed it after AFFC came out, there’s a very good chance I’d be either dead or a functional alcoholic at this point, so it’s not something I’m going to argue about too much again.

    or ordering a drone strike on your house.

    We were developing them, but Amazon bought the rights to them instead.

  210. Rygar
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    Wheres the burp smiley? Oh yeah, its at fleabottom.

  211. Alex Greyjoy
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    Mr Fixit: Ah yes, Babylon 5. The decision to finish the heavily serialised show early only for it to get the fifth season after all screwed not only the last season, but S4 as well. The culmination of four years-worth of plot was incredibly rushed -Shadow War and Earth Civil War especially and then Season 5 had little ground to cover and consisted of way too much filler.

    Wasn’t the whole telepath conflict thing a result of this? I also remember that the series finale was actually shot a year before as a series finale in case of only four seasons.

    I have to rewatch it. This show was awesome.

  212. Rygar
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Are you Dennis Rodman?

  213. Ser Pounce
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Cersei’s Brain,

    I want it right meow. Geez I sound like a one direction fangirl sometimes xD
    Rygar,

    I want to know more about this flea bottom place.

  214. Mr Fixit
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Alex Greyjoy: Wasn’t the whole telepath conflict thing a result of this? I also remember that the series finale was actually shot a year before as a series finale in case of only four seasons.

    I have to rewatch it. This show was awesome.

    It was a good show, but somewhat overrated, I think. It definitely deserves high praise for its intricate continuity-heavy storytelling, which was almost non-existent back then on TV and certainly in SF/F.

  215. Mark
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    I think, or at least am very hopefully, that in the fifth season with the introduction of so many new POV characters (other Greyjoys, other Martells, “Griff” and “Young Griff”, etc…) and their parts it will allow more time for George to catch up. Even if he finishes TWOW by the end of season 5 (which I think it will come sooner), that will give D&D that whole book to represent in next seasons, and George some time for the last book.

    And yes, I do think the kingsmoot, all the Dornish stuff, Young Griff storyline, etc will be included in the show. I really, really do.

    PLEASE though George, finish! I know you hate people pushing you, but ahhh I want it from the books first so bad. I think a bitter part of me honestly couldn’t deal with some of my friends who just like the show watching the end at the same time as me and not having the breadth of knowledge in the books. haha I know that’s ridiculous but what can I say. These books made me crazy. The show did bring me to the books though. Both amazing. I have faith!

  216. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    Steel_Wind: This has the scent of a Gaimanesque diatribe and I would like to cut it off short.

    We aren’t entitled to the books or the show — and they are not entitled to our money, either.

    Now, that we have THAT out of the way…

    Notwithstanding that pronouncement on our respective entitlements, I promise you, however, that despite their not being ENTITLED to that money, HBO and producers of licensed GoT merchandise — all over the world — have:

    1-planned budgets based upon the reasonable assumption of YOUR demand for the product;
    2- have granted security interests over assets based upon that reasonable expectation of YOUR demand;
    3- have otherwise arranged their financial affairs on the reasonable expectation of YOUR demand.

    In short, while THEY might claim not to be entitled to your money — their LENDERS sure as hell ALREADY are.

    Now can we please STOP all this amateur name calling by people unsophisticated in business matters about the unreasonable sense of entitlement of fans, that somehow pretends that the commercial machine that is Game of Thrones does not exist, that it doesn’t have a schedule, and that is doesn’t have a lot of money that relies upon all of this rolling out and being released like clockwork?

    Because it sure as hell 100% does and no, that is NOT a guess.

    Maybe an author who no longer has to pay his rent with future advances against royalties can deliver a book “when it is done”, but the rest of the world operates on another and VERY different set of assumptions.

    Now, can we move on?

    When did I say GRRM is entitled to our money? If people are unhappy with how long he’s taking to get the books published they can boycott. I’m not sure why the random caps lock ire is being directed at me when I am merely expressing the opinion that people need to calm down and be reasonable.

    Since D&D met with GRRM to get the ending of the story, they and HBO don’t need him to complete GoT. The entertainment industry is not going to collapse just because GRRM isn’t getting his ass in gear.

    Being a fan should be fun. Try to lighten up a bit.

  217. Absalom Crane
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead: Where was that? Dragonmount or Wotmania/RAFO, I’m guessing?

    Correct. I am fellow Wotmania-refugee, though under a completely different handle. Started frequenting wotmania.com pretty early, actually. That was AGES ago now.

  218. Rygar
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    Ser Pounce,

    Fleabottom.net. Great chat. Good people. Fun threads. Custom Smiley’s like :poop: :burp: and :choochoo:. Try :creeperfinger: next to :boobs:. My personal favorite.

    This is my favorite thread EVER. And I’m only half drunk!

  219. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Are you Dennis Rodman?

    Yes. You caught me! And you know what? I only post while drunk and in a wedding dress.

  220. Rygar
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Awesome. You’re perfect for our hovel. Bowl of brown, eh?

  221. Chris332
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    Maybe it’s due to the fact that I was lucky enough to read all five books back-to-back, or maybe it’s because I vastly prefer the world-building, character nuances, political intrigue, and social commentary aspects of the series as opposed to the battles and propulsive narrative, but I think A Feast For Crows and especially A Dance With Dragons are both EXTREMELY underrated. If you were to look at the series as a whole, the first three books are Act I, and books 4 and 5 are a dense Act II that expertly sets up a second Storm Of Swords-esque explosion in the last two books (Act III). And more importantly, Feast and Dance explore the realities of war in a far deeper and more poetic way than the first three. The religions of Westeros/Essos are explored in fascinating ways. GRRM ruminates on the ravages of war on soldiers and smallfolk alike, giving the continents a far more lived-in, realistic feel. While the narrative slows down (it’s the middle of the series), a far more literary tone has been adopted in contrast to the lean, pulpy TV-inspired style of books 1-3. The story also becomes way more interested in the moral complexities of ruling, such as Dany’s Meereen quagmire. It’s a problem without a solution, and it’s *meant* to be frustrating. How can she turn her back on the most horrific crime of human history (slavery) and abandon the people she claimed to “free”? All the fans want her to go to Westeros, but *why*? Westeros is a completely foreign world to her, and she wouldn’t have a clue how to rule it. She’d be an outsider, just like she was in Meereen. Dany’s story is doomed to end in tragedy, or at best, back to the house with the red door. A Dance With Dragons sets this up impeccably.

    It utterly mystifies me that supposed fans of the books are so quick to take cheap swipes at Martin for his slow pace. Unlike many of them, I can see and appreciate Feast and Dance as completely worthy of a decade’s worth of material. I think a decade for Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring is completely justified, so I’ll only be disappointed in his progress if Dream comes out past 2020. As for the show catching up, yes that totally sucks, but I’m sure it’ll be different enough that the final book will be a completely separate experience from the final season.

  222. MM
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    What’s still not clear from the VF quotes and from other interviews is that I’m not sure whether D&D (and Bryan Cogman) in that 2013 meeting with GRRM just learned the endgame for all the characters–X winds up on the Iron Throne, Y is fed to Drogon, Z is poisoned, etc. etc.–or learned the basic story arcs for all the characters going from TWOW to the end of the series. If it’s the former, then they’ll still be pretty reliant on GRRM providing more material for them to finish the books, or else they’ll have to come up with a lot of material on their own, which would likely lead to a radically different story, even if the endgames for the show and the books still matched up. If it’s the latter, then GRRM could die tomorrow and the writers would have everything they need to finish the series.

  223. Ros' Merkin
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    Mark: Spoilers

    Bro, mark your spoilers. Not cool.

  224. Mark
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    Chris332:
    Maybe it’s due to the fact that I was lucky enough to read all five books back-to-back, or maybe it’s because I vastly prefer the world-building, character nuances, political intrigue, and social commentary aspects of the series as opposed to the battles and propulsive narrative, but I think A Feast For Crows and especially A Dance With Dragons are both EXTREMELY underrated. If you were to look at the series as a whole, the first three books are Act I, and books 4 and 5 are a dense Act II that expertly sets up a second Storm Of Swords-esque explosion in the last two books (Act III). And more importantly, Feast and Dance explore the realities of war in a far deeper and more poetic way than the first three. The religions of Westeros/Essos are explored in fascinating ways. GRRM ruminates on the ravages of war on soldiers and smallfolk alike, giving the continents a far more lived-in, realistic feel. While the narrative slows down (it’s the middle of the series), a far more literary tone has been adopted in contrast to the lean, pulpy TV-inspired style of books 1-3. The story also becomes way more interested in the moral complexities of ruling, such as Dany’s Meereen quagmire. It’s a problem without a solution, and it’s *meant* to be frustrating. How can she turn her back on the most horrific crime of human history (slavery) and abandon the people she claimed to “free”? All the fans want her to go to Westeros, but *why*? Westeros is a completely foreign world to her, and she wouldn’t have a clue how to rule it. She’d be an outsider, just like she was in Meereen. Dany’s story is doomed to end in tragedy, or at best, back to the house with the red door. A Dance With Dragons sets this up impeccably.

    It utterly mystifies me that supposed fans of the books are so quick to take cheap swipes at Martin for his slow pace. Unlike many of them, I can see and appreciate Feast and Dance as completely worthy of a decade’s worth of material. I think a decade for Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring is completely justified, so I’ll only be disappointed in his progress if Dream comes out past 2020. As for the show catching up, yes that totally sucks, but I’m sure it’ll be different enough that the final book will be a completely separate experience from the final season.

    COMPLETELY agree with every single thing you said. AFFC and ADWD really are an act II as I look at it as well. So much intrigue and deep underlying stuff in those 2. I never rank this series of books because I love every one of them, but these 2 had me extremely engulfed. I agree with the Dany storyline in ADWD meant to be frustrating and kind of slow with confusing political intrigue, in a foreign land. Made total sense to me. I also agree George owes us nothing. But it does undeniably suck that he takes quite a while and that the show may catch up. We all know that sucks. He owes us nothing, but we really hope he will pull through in time for us. That’s how I look at it. Either way though, at the end of the day, no matter how it all goes down, we are looking at a fantastic conclusion to an epic story.

  225. Mark
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Ros’ Merkin: Bro, mark your spoilers.Not cool.

    Sorry, didn’t really see some new character names as too spoilery, especially considering every season introduces them before and whatnot. But I can see where it may be a bit of a spoiler. I’ll be more cautious next time.

  226. barak
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Balerion The Cat:
    Can someone tell me what Emilia says at the end of her first interview about her and Jorah? English is not my first language so I’ve never heard those words before and have no idea what they mean.

    She says Jorah and Dany “could have a bum cheek each” – that is, they could sit on it together.

  227. Kilgore Tully
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    Steel_Wind,

    You have only established financial obligation. People are owed money, not books. That money may be generated by selling books, but if there are no books, said obligation can be satisfied completely with money generated by other means.

    This “fan entitlement” thing is a different beast. It comes down to how one feels while telling another person they have to do something. There are all sorts of relative reasons an action can be necessary. Are you comfortable telling another person how to live for multiple years for your entertainment?

    This is relevant:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rashard-mendenhall/rashard-mendenhall-retirement-_b_4931316.html

  228. Ros' Merkin
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    Mark: Sorry, didn’t really see some new character names as too spoilery, especially considering every season introduces them before and whatnot. But I can see where it may be a bit of a spoiler. I’ll be more cautious next time.

    Actually, I meant the kingsmoot. Way more info that I wanted. But it’s all good.

  229. Adam Whitehead
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    The Daily Mail expands on the Vanity Fair article with more info from the magazine.

    ‘I can give them the broad strokes of what I intend to write but the details aren’t there yet,’ he explained.

    ‘I am hopeful that I can not let them catch up with me. And it’s my hope that long before they catch up with me I’ll have published The Winds Of Winter which’ll give me another couple years.

    ‘It might be tight on the last book, A Dream Of Spring, as they juggernaut forward.’

    “Tight” may be an understatement.

  230. Mark
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    Ros’ Merkin: Actually, I meant the kingsmoot.Way more info that I wanted.But it’s all good.

    Ahh. Again, apologies. If you don’t know what it is though, trust me, it probably isn’t anything you are thinking. I’ll leave it at that.

  231. cosca
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    You seem to have little grasp of what censorship is. Yes, westeros.org is a private site, and they have the right to censor it as they wish. That doesn’t mean it isn’t censorship what they’re doing. I didn’t compare it to an insane dictatorship, you did.

  232. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    I want the dragons to fill up a bowl of brown.

  233. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    At least that interview implies GRRM hopes to get the book out before production begins on season 6… Not that his hopes are any sort of confirmation, but I take it that he hopes to get the book out in 2015 at the latest.

  234. Lord Stannis's Soul
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Comparing that comparison to Godwinning is Godwinning. I know Godwin, and you’re no Godwin.

  235. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    cosca:
    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    You seem to have little grasp of what censorship is. Yes, westeros.org is a private site. That doesn’t mean it isn’t censorship what they’re doing. I didn’t compare it to an insane dictatorship, you did.

    So, you think you should have the right to tell the owners of a website how they have to run it?
    Different sites have different commenting policy. That’s just how it is. Nobody has to run their forum around your preferences. Nobody is oppressing you and you can do your freeze peach elsewhere.

  236. Rygar
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    You broke my heart Jentario. You broke my heart.

  237. Tenesmus
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    The Suits at HBO don’t give a half-hearted, limp noodle, drunken fcuk about the books and when they get released. They care about their show. They could care less if D&D extrapolate current seasons into something that looks absolutely nothing like past or future books, or if they dogmatically follow plot arcs beat for beat. They have basically been green lighted for seasons 5/6/7 with an option for 8 if the show continues to be successful. Whether those seasons will resemble the books; who knows, who cares? Just get them in the can and on the screen.

  238. Hoyti Von Totiy
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    D&D strike me as good guys who want to do the books right as much as they can.
    It would be fair if they and GRRM signed some sort of a contract so GRRM cant change the ending (of the books) he told them later in the books.

    GRRM strikes me as very unprofessional when it comes to the issue of the show overtaking the books. He acts like it isnt his lifes work at stake here and his statements are really weird and delusional on the subject.

    I really cant see Tolkien saying:”well i could have an asteroid kill them all” an any point in my mind.

  239. Lord Davos
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    George is on a roll, Gurm FTW.

  240. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    What can I say… Me and Dragon Poo always had something going on. I’m sorry that I wasn’t up front about it… :(

  241. Ser Pounce
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    Hoyti Von Totiy,

    I like how you phrase things. I agree grrm gives the weirdest answers whenever he is asked about the book, why is it such a bad thing for a fan to ask an artist about his work.

  242. zerowolf
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    This is a site dedicated to the show.
    Forget about the books.
    HBO have and, sadly, it appears GRRM would like them to go away too. I don’t think finishing the books is something that inspires him that much any more.
    Don’t agree?
    One glance at his website will tell you different.
    D&D will continue to entertain us with their adaptation so we’re in good hands and if by some miracle GRRM finishes his novels we’ll all have forgotten about the show by then.
    Or dead…

  243. zod
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:03 pm | Permalink
  244. Hoyti Von Totiy
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    ok so 7-8 seasons but i want the last 3-4 seasons to have as little of AFFC/DWD as possible in them.

    It really is a clusterf**k for a show this big to be put into this unreal situation.

  245. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    zod,

    It’s good they chose to end that interview on a high note.

  246. Balerion The Cat
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    barak,

    Thank you!

    Ser Pounce,

    Are you by any chance the Ser Pounce that is also on twitter?

  247. Ours is the Fury
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    For the benefit of people still unclear on the matter this is the moderation policy here. WIC has always been pretty laid back but there are a few guidelines. These are them:

    1) No personal attacks.
    2) No trolling, and no spamming is allowed.
    3) No overly offensive, obscene or vulgar posts.

    Criticize George RR Martin all you like. Do not personally attack each other, however.

    And personally, I don’t care about fart jokes. Whatever floats your boat, I guess. Just don’t insult other commenters.

  248. Josh
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    Another quote from GRRM: “And it’s my hope that long before they catch up with me I’ll have published The Winds of Winter which’ll give me another couple years.”

    This is just embarrassing at this point. He writes an episode a season, is a co-executive producer and still doesn’t care to accept where they are in the story or how this adaptation is working. D&D will be beyond the books with at least a few characters by the end of next year. GRRM thinks TWOW will be out LONG BEFORE the show touches that material? Dude. Get it together.

    Weiss said in VF: “And it’s just the idea of it barreling toward some conclusion as opposed to just rolling down the road.”

    Publishing TWOW will “give me another couple years,” Martin says.

    No it won’t man, no it won’t.

  249. H. Stark
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    Josh,

    They are trolling us for sure. Martin, Benioff and Weiss like to play.

  250. Hoyti Von Totiy
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    Josh:
    Another quote from GRRM: “And it’s my hope that long before they catch up with me I’ll have published The Winds of Winter which’ll give me another couple years.”

    He seems to belive AFFC and DWD would cover 3-4 season by themselves. By this point and the meeting he had with D&D i hope they explained to him that if they tried to cover those 2 books in detail the end result would be the catastrophe that would equal “HEROES season 2″ and result in an enormous rating and viewer drop.

  251. MM
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    Josh, technically, if GRRM releases TWOW in 2015, which is still supposedly possible–even if I think it’s unlikely–then that will be before, if not “long before,” Season 6 airs in 2016. He’ll still stay ahead of the show in that scenario, if not by the widest of margins. Even if GRRM releases TWOW in early 2016, he can still technically stay ahead of the show, although a matter of months is not “long before,” I agree. Mind you, that all assumes that the show isn’t going to get into any TWOW material until Season 6, and I have my doubts about that.

    As for ADOS, GRRM is correct that even if he publishes TWOW as late as 2016, he’ll still have two more years to publish ADOS to beat the show assuming GOT runs to eight seasons and the final season airs in 2018. So he’s not wrong, when he claims that he has time to not only finish but also publish ADOS in under two years…just incredibly unrealistic, in my opinion.

    The good news is that the show has lit a fire under GRRM to finish the books, since the show is going full steam ahead, and it’s clear that his only option if he doesn’t want the show to spoil the post-ADWD books (at least the books’ “broad strokes,” which is what the fans ultimately care about, anyway, and which the showrunners already know) is to get a move on and finish the books ASAP.

  252. Sami
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

    Fangirling over Emilia. Love this girl!

  253. ace
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    source of GOT fan rage

    (1) the reality that show will spoil the end game of ASOIAF (hence the directed rage on GRRM)
    (2) hey! that is not how it looks like/what happens in the books
    (3) Lacks of (insert favourite character) or Overexposure of (insert less favourite character) scenes

    on no. 1, either book or show, I just am curious how the story will end. If it end up the show will give me the story’s endgame first, so be it, I got my answers. I will still read the succeeding books when it comes out, because it will have more details on the journey to the end that enriches what I already know.

  254. Cumsprite
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    MM,

    Good point. He might stay ahead of the airing of the show in your scenario. But he won’t be able to stay ahead of HBO’s writers much longer. Given that elements of AFFC/ADWD are appearing this season and they are shooting loads of it this year for Season Five it’s possible they are writing parts that will appear in TWOW right now.

  255. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    ace,

    Yeah, I agree. I can’t say I didn’t enjoy reading books 1 and 2 after watching the first two seasons, and I would live through reading ADOS a couple of years after the last season (if this will happen). Obviously, I’d prefer the other way around, but watching the show would become a much better (and more enjoyable experience). It will also be karmic justice to book reader trolls on the internet who would have to avoid spoilers themselves.

    Anyway, this situation was avoidable, but I guess GRRM realized the threat a little to late.

  256. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    Cumsprite,

    First of all, your name is genius. Secondly, I don’t think it will be necessary to get into TWOW this early. They have more than enough ADWD and AFFC for a season and a half of material (spread across seasons 4-6, with the bulk being in 5 of course).

  257. Currawong
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    MM:
    Josh, technically, if GRRM releases TWOW in 2015, which is still supposedly possible–even if I think it’s unlikely–then that will be before, if not “long before,” Season 6 airs in 2016. He’ll still stay ahead of the show in that scenario, if not by the widest of margins. Even if GRRM releases TWOW in early 2016, he can still technically stay ahead of the show, although a matter of months is not “long before,” I agree.

    Aren’t you forgetting about the lead times for both writing and filming? If Season 6 is going to air in 2016, they will actually be shooting that season during the summer of 2015, which means they will need material from TWOW by the end of 2014 so they can finalise the S6 scripts and prepare the production schedule. Yes, it’s always possible to add/adjust a few scenes at the last minute, but they do need to do the majority of the writing well beforehand. So unless GRRM can get TWOW out by the end of this year, or at least give D&D a lot of the nitty gritty details he apparently still has to finish, then the show IS going to roll right on past him.

  258. Lord Davos
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    Currawong,

    Its reasonable to think George has given them a seasons length of material already. A year ago he had finished 400 pages, by now over 700?

  259. Bill
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    Billybob,

    It doesn’t seem possible, does it?

    It’s not really the end that I care about. I’m sure Dany’s dragons will blow the Others to smithereens. It’s character-based stuff that I will try my best to avoid. . .

  260. Stark Raving Mad
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    I discussed this with SRM, Jr. before posting since she is more level-headed and considerate than I am. I became a GRRM fan way back in ’82 when I picked up a copy of Fevre Dream and after that all the Wild Card books. I’ve read each ASOIAF book as it was released. I’m a book walker, and I really want to read the story as George intends it and not an interpretation. That said, I’m also a GoT fan, and will continue to watch even if the show speeds ahead of the books.

    I was thrilled when HBO picked up the show and hoped beyond hope that it would encourage GRRM to deliver the books sooner. Who knows? Maybe it already has and we just don’t know it.

    I’m sure a lot of people remember other situations when sequels took forever to come out or (sadly) never appeared at all. In the late ’70s I thought it horrible to dangle on a cliff for a year while I waited for a sequel to Riddlemaster of Hed. I waited ten years for Sterling Lanier to publish another Heiro Desteen book. He died before the series completed. In more modern times Robert Jordan passed before finishing WoT. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn similar past experiences are partially responsible for reader impatience.

    I hope GRRM lives a long and wonderful life and continues to tell stories even if his pace at times maddens me. I can take it (even if it makes me want to tear out my hair). When all’s said and done, I think most of us can.

    Now to make this all relevant to the original post. I suspect a filter or even time of day account for the red in Cersei’s and Tyrion’s hair. I expect Seasons 5 and 6 to be a mix of Feast and Dance with maybe a bit of Winter thrown in. The first two books were separated for logistics reasons. Everything essentially occurred around the same time. I do hope they consolidate a ton of both Cersei and Dany’s stories from those books.

  261. John M W
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer:
    ace,
    It will also be karmic justice to book reader trolls on the internet who would have to avoid spoilers themselves.

    100% agreed. I wasn’t even one of the aggrieved (having already read the books), but there’s no doubt they’d have it coming.

  262. Cumsprite
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    Thanks! Wish I had come up with it myself. But you probably knew that. Oglaf is one of my favorite comics. I encourage everyone here to check it out and start from the beginning. It’s also very, very, NSFW.

  263. House Mormont
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury: And personally, I don’t care about fart jokes

    I read this in Brienne’s voice for some reason? Just add a “kingslayer” on the end and it’s perfect

    Also since we all agree that AFFC and ADWD are Act II of three Acts. An act that sprawls pointlessly in no narrative direction for most of the characters while thoughtfully evaluating concepts such as identity, war and political ruling instead of actually telling a story of Ice and Fire.
    Now do you think, since D&D are merging aSoS(end), aFfC and aDwD(beginning) this season and most likely cutting a lot of Feast/Dance and merging it seemlessly into tWoW (pretty much necessary for Bran/Sansa etc) that in the grand scheme of Game of Thrones, it’ll be Act I and Act II, rather than Act I and Act III, with this bridge of Act II in between

  264. House Mormont
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    Also, whoever wondered if D&D and B Cog know just the outline of the ending or how they’re gonna get there too

    In GRRM’s interviews after Season 3 didn’t he say that he didn’t know how to wrap up all the additional plots he’d introduced in just two books? I’m guessing he meant things like the Brotherhood Without Banners, Darkstar and all the prophecies. But if he’s 23 years into writing it and he doesn’t know how he’s gonna work that into the narrative, I doubt he knows exactly how all the characters are getting to this end game.

    Also, I don’t really believe that people saying aDoS will be written quickly even believe that. GRRM has given no reason as to why tWoW shouldn’t be a quick book, there are no five year gaps or meereenese knots this time. And I doubt it’s gonna be just a straight simple road to the end in aDoS. It’ll be as complicated and twisty as any, there’s just so much plot left.

  265. Tori Targaryen
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    Ludo,

    Well said. I really don’t get all of the hate floating around at all. Some really ungrateful, so called fans out there. If you’re a fan, respect George and be glad he’s not rushing to release the books.

  266. House Mormont
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    In the meantime, there are three new Meereenese blot articles up, on Dorne this time (after Dany, Jon and Tyrion).

    http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/water-gardens-and-blood-oranges-part-i-the-viper-and-the-grass/

  267. Greatness Arrisessss
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    Tori Targaryen:
    Ludo,

    Well said. I really don’t get all of the hate floating around at all. Some really ungrateful, so called fans out there. If you’re a fan, respect George and be glad he’s not rushing to release the books.

    Sup Torimori you still watch TWD

  268. cosca
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Tori Targaryen,

    What if I’m not a fan? Can I tell him to hurry up then?

  269. redviper
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    Mike D,

    Here Here !!

  270. Ser Lucas Tyrell
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

    Josh,

    Perhaps that means he thinks #6 will take more than a season.

  271. tysnow
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    If HBO passes GRRM I’m hoping D&D take the show toward an alternate ending not just the primary arc but also some minor arcs that way we have two versions, HBO’s and GRRM’s.

  272. A Secret Baratheon
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    I don’t want to bitch, and I know it’s churlish to criticise George’s glacial writing pace at this juncture, but if the show overtaking him is such an alarming concept, maybe he should get the goddamn book out.

  273. Tori Targaryen
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss,

    Eh, do I know you? lol

    cosca,

    If you’re not a fan, then why are you here? I’m not a fan of football, you don’t see me crawling around footballing websites giving them my 2 cents.

  274. Second Son
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

    I wish I could “upvote” this comment. Clear, succinct, and very true. Stop being alarmed and write the fucking book. Stop the Tyrion quote books, stop the press junkets, stop the red carpet appearances, stop falling in love with celebrity… and just write the motherfucking book.

    A Secret Baratheon:
    I don’t want to bitch, and I know it’s churlish to criticise George’s glacial writing pace at this juncture, but if the show overtaking him is such an alarming concept, maybe he should get the goddamn book out.

  275. Cumsprite
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

    Second Son,

    It’s Obama’s fault.

  276. Greatness Arrisessss
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    Tori Targaryen:
    Greatness Arrisessss,

    Eh, do I know you? lol

    cosca,

    If you’re not a fan, then why are you here? I’m not a fan of football, you don’t see me crawling around footballing websites giving them my 2 cents.

    Weren’t you from SpoiledRotten a couple years ago under the name Torimori and Dany was your favorite character on GoT?

  277. Cumsprite
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    This thread is wrecked. None of this would’ve happened had Winter loved wicnet.

    Someone needs to be made an example of: a banning to make things right.

    I volunteer as Tribute!

  278. Tori Targaryen
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss,

    Sorry that wasn’t me lol But hi anyway :-D

  279. ColdDrake
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    So much rage…it’s just not worth it, people.

  280. Ray Feighery
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    GRRM has already stated there wouldn’t be a prequel of Robert’s Rebellion as the specifics of it play a part in the final books.

    He would be open to doing something along the lines of the Princess and the Queen.

    Beyond that I think he had a great comment in an interview recently that when he was young if you wanted to see a movie on TV you needed to read TV Guide and catch it when it was on and after that you would have to wait for the next time it was on 1 or maybe 2 years later. Or if you missed a TV show you would have to wait for the repeat. His Generation (and mine one later) got used to waiting. We would find other things and interests to bide our time.
    Seriously 3-5 years between books of this size is completely reasonable. As he has said it’s not his time availability that has been the issue but the story and fitting all of the pieces in. AFFC has to be scraped and started over because it just didn’t work at first.
    While not a straight up hiatus I can certainly see HBO stretching the off seasons if necessary…moving the show to the fall which adds 6 months…then moving it back…another larger gap. or even splitting season ala Breaking Bad.

  281. MM
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    Currawong, I meant GRRM staying ahead of the show in relation to the TV viewing audience. I agree that the writers are going to start needing TWOW material by the end of 2014, but as Lord Davos said, GRRM might be providing them with draft material as he goes; plus, they already have the “broad strokes” blueprint courtesy of that 2013 meeting with GRRM to get them through the end of the series in any event.

    I think GRRM’s concern in staying ahead of the show is ensuring that the TV show doesn’t spoil the post-ADWD books for the TV viewing audience. If that’s the case, then it’s true that once he publishes TWOW, he’ll have about two more years to publish ADOS, although it could be as many as three years (eight TV seasons, 2015 TWOW release, 2018 Season 8 airs), or as little as one year (seven TV seasons, 2016 TWOW release, 2017 Season 7 airs, although the show would still outpace TWOW in this scenario unless TWOW was released before April 2016).

    Depending on how quickly GRRM writes, there is a real danger that the show will spoil the remaining books before TWOW can be released, let alone ADOS. Assuming only seven seasons, that gives GRRM until April 2017 to release TWOW. That’s really not all that far away.

  282. Khal_ Rhaego
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    If I was GRRM and I came across a site dedicated to my work and read opinions from my “fans” calling me fat, lazy and other crude words I’d take my money, spend it on vacations to hobbiton flipping you all off in every picture and post it to my website with “suck my big floppy weiner” in caps.

    The amount of disrespect showed by many of you is truly what is wrong with the world today. Please, for the sake of humanity do not reproduce as you would only birth more inconsiderate, spoiled, douchebag children.

    GRRM is an artist. You cannot rush creativity. It will be done when it’s done. If any of you ever tried to create anything in your miserable lives maybe you’d realize that.

    And no HBO is not going to delay production. They have a golden goose here. Delaying production would not only ruin the flow of the show but cause some to lose(yes it’s LOSE not loose, idiots) interest especially when there is only 4 seasons left at most. If you want to stop watching fine go ahead then I can spoil things for you like most of you did before I decided to read all the books myself.

    I’ve never seen such a bunch of whiny children outside of a daycare. Be proud of that kiddos and if you take offense to what I said kiss my big fat pink mast

  283. Ser Lucas Tyrell
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    ColdDrake,

    Here, a jolly song to compensate the rage:

    “Once there was a magical elf
    Who lived in a rainbow tree
    He lived downstairs
    From a flatulent dwarf
    Who was constantly having to pee

    One day the elf could take no more
    So he went and banged
    On the rude dwarf’s door
    And what do you know
    They suddenly both were maaaarried!”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7vOMmdGJ_Y

  284. Anonymous Bastard
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    I suppose I must be the only one who as book reader is looking forward to seeing last season or two before reading them…
    Indeed, I’d actually prefer to get two completely different endings, but I don’t have my hopes very high on that.

  285. House Mormont
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

    Has anybody mentioned that he could release aDoS in two halfs, one before season 7 and one before season 8?

    The book will be split into two halfs anyway, or atleast in the UK, so atleast he has a possibility of staying ahead that way

  286. somuchforoldtown
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    I’m I the only guy on this board who WANTS D&D to leap ahead of GRRM? First of all, everyone, myself included, will finally be unsullied, AWESOME !! Second, GRRM is brilliant, absolutely brilliant, with character dialogue. Let GRRM stop writing the books for a while, and just pen the dialogue for the remaining seasons of the show. YEAH !!

  287. Ros' Merkin
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

    somuchforoldtown:
    I’m I the only guy on this board who WANTS D&D to leap ahead of GRRM? First of all, everyone, myself included, will finally be unsullied, AWESOME !!

    I want it so badly I can taste it. I’m unsullied, so I don’t care what GRRM does with his time, other than the entertainment value of the histrionics it causes. But I really would love for my fleabottom peeps to be able to share in the wonder I feel watching the series. In this case ignorance truly is bliss. And I would love nothing more than to have them imagine the possibilities with me. Then when the books are finally released, we can all share in the excitement and go on and on about differences from the show together. Yeah, I’m selfish that way. :)

  288. Malcatraz
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

    GeekFurious,

    GeekFurious, please get GeekFuriouser, we need you on the right side of this. As our National Treasure, Dr. Drew once said: “Shame can be a great motivator.”

  289. Dan
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

    Ros’ Merkin,

    I think you’ll lose a decent amount of book readers if the show passes up GRRM. I love the show, but there is no chance in hell that I would watch the end of the story play out on tv before I’ve had a chance to read it. I much prefer to experience the wonder from the books unspoiled. And I’ve had a bit of experience both ways. I started the series unsullied, but by episode 4 or 5 I picked up the books and was done with the first one by the time the 7th or 8th episode aired. I’d still go back and watch the last couple seasons, but it would have to be after I’ve read the books.

  290. Bebopanonymous
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    I find it to be a real shame for BOTH the show and the books if the show finishes before the other. But let’s be real, as anyone who has followed this series, and Martin in particular, for more than a few years, how can it not? As a longtime book fan, part of the reason this show is so great is how accurately it sticks to the source material, material written perfectly for an HBO series. I know it doesn’t for everything but for the major stuff it does. So, as for the show, D&D have done a phenomenal job, but whether Martin doesn’t give them full details and the show comes up with its own ending, or he does and they tell it in their own version, I’m sure it will be done well, but I don’t see how that wont be slightly disappointing. I don’t see how those final seasons wont have at least a slightly different feel without their larger, more in depth guide to follow. And for the books, well I’m just one opinion, but I’m pretty sure it’s one in the majority when I say it’ll be a major stain on the series in general if the ending is spoiled before we longtime fans get to read it on paper.

  291. Adam Austin
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

    Hirstfind,

    Well Written, Well thought out, and I agree with you ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!

    I would love to see Robert’s Rebellion so long as they start with the Tourney at Harrenhall

  292. GhostCR
    Posted March 11, 2014 at 11:33 pm | Permalink

    I usually don’t like to see the movie or the TV series before I finish the books. But with ASOIAF I discovered the books after I watched season 1, and contrary to may long-held belief, I was able to enjoy both, and have my own idea on how different characters from the books would act and look. It’s been fun to go back and forth. I am not that concerned about the show catching up with GRRM.

    Still for next seasons the show runners have the challenge of adding new players into the mix Doran Martell, Arianne, Wyman Manderly, Young Griff and their corresponding scenarios including the Citadel, as well as other characters that would need some sort of background if they are going to be kept in the story like, Jon Connington or the Darkstar…. Oooooh, I would love to have some proper background about the Daynes… They always intrigued me…

    As far as the Vanity Fair article, impressive to see so many of the main characters including the “elusive” ones (Jackie Gleeson swan song?, Conlith Hill and the guy who plays Little Finger). Kind of sad I didn’t get to see Stannis, Melisandre and specially Davos in there…

  293. WildSeed
    Posted March 12, 2014 at 1:18 am | Permalink

    Great interview and photo ops. Every bit said is to promote the
    upcoming season on Game of Thrones…….. not really the books.
    Here we go again with the gnashes and predictors of and end of the………
    It’s expected that serious talk of speculation and end of days talk takes place at
    the start of another big show season. I would be disappointed if it wasn’t .Of
    course reading this interview should be compared with those in thorough
    peer interviews, where the show runners and GRRM appeared either
    simultaneously or soon thereafter, moderated by credible insiders.Buzzwords
    incite worry, so I cannot take this glitzy photoshoot as anything worth the
    worry. I’m more interested what’s being said After the upcoming season ends.
    Provocative words will likely ensue, once everyone tallies the success or failure.

  294. A
    Posted March 12, 2014 at 1:42 am | Permalink

    The way I see it is that as long as they get some feedback from George on where certain characters stories are going (and it’s obvious they won’t rock the boat TOO much with main characters), then it won’t be as bad as most people fear. In fact, that may be the time we actually see how good they are at writing. Right now it’s fairly easy to write for the show. If you want to, you can pull direct quotes right out of the books, and nobody will blame you or criticisize you for it. In fact, people praise it. But that won’t be possible once they finish up the portions of ADWD. (Again, assuming if TWOW isn’t out by then.) So they’ll have to come up with a lot of their own writing. And that might make the books/TV show more interesting. Who knows. Too soon to say. I just want George to relax on all of his projects and put a little more of a concentrated effort on his book writing.

  295. WildSeed
    Posted March 12, 2014 at 2:35 am | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    Well stated ser !

  296. loco73
    Posted March 12, 2014 at 4:03 am | Permalink

    When and how the story of ” A Song Of Ice And Fire” will end is known by only one individual, George RR Martin! This is his creation, built by his imagination and vision, and as passionate as we are as fans, we are only guests here after all!

    I love the novels, and I cannot begin to imagine the amount of work it takes to bring to a close a project as truly epic as these ASOIF is! The creative process for each artist is and has always been something very personal and unique for every one, writers included! They each go about it in their own way and that is true for Martin as well!

    In the moment when an artist allows outside factors to dictate how he or she creates, and at which pace, that is when they start compromising and cutting corners just to please someone else or meet some deadline etc. As a fan I’d be more worried about that for Martin, than when he’ll finish ” The Winds Of Winter” and ” A Memory Of Spring”.

    Is it possible that the show might catch up to his novels? Yes of course, hell anything is possible! Years ago we were thinking is it possible for the ASOIF novels to be brought to the screen at all?! Well, here we are! It was possible!

    This is more or less the same dilemma JK Rowling faced as she was finishing the Potter novels at the same time as the movies were exploding in popularity. Robert Kirkman is facing that right now with “The Walking Dead”! Think what Nic Pizzolatto must be feeling like now having to come up with another story and new characters for the next season of “True Detective”…having to follow up on what he just did? And the man is also a writer not just of screenplays. He was able to write 500 pages of script in 3 months because the story was just flowing because he had it all in his head and he did not have the pressure of having another season of a show to develop and an eager audience waiting for more “True Detective”!!!

    At the end of the day we can all speculate, gesticulate, get frustrated and everything else, it all amounts I’m sorry to say to armchair quarterbacking!

    Personally as a fan, as eager as I am to devour the story, I’d rather wish for Martin to finish in his own terms, than get some rushed hack job, pushed outhere to please the most rabid fanboys or the like!

    Martin is the man with the keys to the kingdom! As to how each of us reacts and what we do in this case, well, it is up to is as individuals!

    Besides, there is always a solution to every problem!

  297. dragonreborn
    Posted March 12, 2014 at 5:53 am | Permalink

    Seeing all those characters together in costume is amazing!
    dany and jon together!! thats like seeing dragons

  298. Bard
    Posted March 12, 2014 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    loco73:
    When and how the story of ” A Song Of Ice And Fire” will end is known by only one individual, George RR Martin! This is his creation, built by his imagination and vision, and as passionate as we are asfans, we are only guests here after all!

    Paying guests.

  299. OldeCrone
    Posted March 12, 2014 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    Bard: Paying guests.

    That’s a fair point. I sometimes wonder if Mr Martin has lost interest somewhat in his project but I will be very happy to be proved wrong.

  300. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 12, 2014 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    loco73,

    7 years for 2 books is not rushed. If he could write the first three books in close to three years each without the show placing a candle under his ass, he can finish the last to in 3.5 years each. All he needs to do is to say no to side projects, sit down and write- that way he could make both a good product and a product that comes out in a reasonable time and before the show beats it. But he keeps taking side projects, and it doesn’t seem like he is writing any more than usual.

    Last year he said he had about a quarter of the book done, and that was after already having 200 leftover pages from ADWD and 200 pages of unedited drafts, which means he did a whole lot of nothing in that one year. This year he seems to be more on track. Maybe he really is writing a lot, maybe he does care about finishing enough… Time will tell, and that time is very soon. If we don’t here a major progress update by the end of the year, there’s no way GRRM will finish first.

    And it would be his fault, really. Not the show’s.

  301. loco73
    Posted March 12, 2014 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    Bard,

    Yeah well, no one is forcing you to pay. Make your own decision about that. If you are that frustrated with him and the books, or the show and HBO or whatever else irks you about this, then stop reading, burn the books, don’t subscribe to HBO or buy the DVD sets or merchandise etc. Here is an idea, read other books! Hell, donate your money to the Red Cross and go volunteer for a cause in you neighbourhood, travel…there are surely more important things in this world and your life than “A Song Of Ice And Fire” or GoT the tv series!

  302. Cheeky Platypus
    Posted March 12, 2014 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    Steel_Wind: This has the scent of a Gaimanesque diatribe and I would like to cut it off short.

    We aren’t entitled to the books or the show — and they are not entitled to our money, either.

    Now, that we have THAT out of the way…

    Notwithstanding that pronouncement on our respective entitlements, I promise you, however, that despite their not being ENTITLED to that money, HBO and producers of licensed GoT merchandise — all over the world — have:

    1-planned budgets based upon the reasonable assumption of YOUR demand for the product;
    2- have granted security interests over assets based upon that reasonable expectation of YOUR demand;
    3- have otherwise arranged their financial affairs on the reasonable expectation of YOUR demand.

    In short, while THEY might claim not to be entitled to your money — their LENDERS sure as hell ALREADY are.

    Now can we please STOP all this amateur name calling by people unsophisticated in business matters about the unreasonable sense of entitlement of fans, that somehow pretends that the commercial machine that is Game of Thrones does not exist, that it doesn’t have a schedule, and that is doesn’t have a lot of money that relies upon all of this rolling out and being released like clockwork?

    Because it sure as hell 100% does and no, that is NOT a guess.

    Maybe an author who no longer has to pay his rent with future advances against royalties can deliver a book “when it is done”, but the rest of the world operates on another and VERY different set of assumptions.

    Now, can we move on?

    I love this post because although it brings up excellent points it’s also a perfect example why capitalism and creativity don’t mix well often times. Unfortunately, creativity and problem solving doesn’t quite adhere to whatever financial schedule the forces that be decided upon.

    Which is why you often have the choice to either deliver the product according to schedule but have it be of inferior quality or even “faulty” (in case of games riddles with bugs for example) and the choice to take a “risk” and invest in something that is “original” or go with what you know have worked in the past and will make a profit but face the problem that people might not be interested because there’s nothing unique about it. The latter which can be greatly helped by a good/aggressive marketing campaign.

    Usually the choice is to deliver the unoriginal inferior product. Since businesses will always choose what they know will likely make them the most money, it is up to the fans/consumers etc. to [i]wise up[/i] and demand original and quality products.

    In the case of certain products, your model works perfectly but in this case the “product” isn’t something that has simple rules of being manufactured. In fact rushing it may greatly compromise its quality and eventually overall value. Since the business train won’t stop it’s up to the consumers (fans) to make it known they rather have quality. Of course, a lot of consumer soften what to rush the production process and then complain afterwards when they get an unoriginal faulty product.

  303. loco73
    Posted March 12, 2014 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    When he wrote the first novels, that was a different time. Time passes, things and circumstances change. The rest is pure speculation. Short of you knowing him personally and having access to his daily routine or private life, you are making assumptions. Who knows what is what? And think, Martin is at least a helluva more in touch with his fans, than other writers who dissapear for years and don’t say a word to their fans.

    Speaking for myself, guess what, I’ve survived all the in between time of the ASOIF novels being published? It has been years since I read all five novels. I got the books and can always go back and read them, with pleasure might I add, but in the meantime I’ve read many other books, seen other tv series and in general lived my personal life without worrying about the books or the tv show!

    My life does not revolve around “A Song Of Ice And Fire” or George RR Martin! And you know what? It helps me enjoy this that much more! I don’t want to become bitter and frustrated with all this stuff! Should I, I would never enjoy anything about it again.

    And frankly, I don’t want to sound harsh, but Martin doesn’t owe you shit (or me for that matter)! You assume he does! What projects he chooses to do, what and how he chooses to write or how he lives his life, that is his business, not yours or anyone else’s ! If all this pisses you off this much, as I already said, there is plenty to do in this world besides these books and this tv show!

    I for example will spend my off day, especially since I’m walled off by a large winter storm, by sleeping, farting and getting drunk…and not necessarily in that order! The rest be damned!

  304. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 12, 2014 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    loco73,

    Martin doesn’t owe me shit, and he isn’t my bitch. I don’t mind watching the series end first (of course I’d prefer the other way around, though). That said, there are a lot of people that Martin does owe shit to: HBO, David and Dan but most of all himself. If he truly wants to defend his legacy, he can’t just nonchalantly give up. He can’t just sit back and let it happen. The man is a genius, but I can’t say I will keep the same respect I have for him now if TWOW will come out any later than alongside season 5. But my respect for GRRM means jack shit to him, as it should- it’s his respect for himself that’s at stake.

    I will admit, though, that I spend a large chunk of my free time on these books and this show. I’m not ashamed of it, and I never will be. I actually considered myself an optimist until this post came around. I thought GRRM will surely make it before season 8. But now that season 8 has been presented as a fallback plan rather than a solid one, I think it’s becoming increasingly tight for GRRM.

    Yes, that disappoints me. But again, this series is a hobby of mine (along with a number other things). So when the news comes in, not being disappointed would be impossible.

    I will get over it, though, and rather quickly. I am not a book purist or anything like that. I will enjoy the show for what it is, and not hate it for what it could have been. Same with the books. But my official respect level for GRRM (and to an extent D&D for depriving him of the chance that he would have likely thrown away) will be lowered. I still love them and think they’re great, and I will still enjoy this series immensely- but less.

    That’s my opinion.

  305. gisizzlah
    Posted March 12, 2014 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    oh you commentors are entertaining…

    side bar: why do they keep putting Dany and Jon together in promotional pics every season? is it forshadowing?!?….dun dun duuuuuuuunnnnn

  306. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted March 12, 2014 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    Ya know, I think Jaime/Nicolaj may have the right of it….that in the end no one will sit on the throne and a new type of governance will come into being. I say this because 1) GRRM is an astute student of history and we know that feudalism was replaced with governments more conducive to commerce and the rise of a middle class once confronted with a series of epic crises that it was unable to address appropriately, 2) GRRM seems to believe there are flaws in monarchy and feudalism (because as Nicolaj points out, it’s clearly not working out well for Westeros), and 3) Dany had that dream of the Red Keep being rent open in several places with the throne room empty and filling up with snow. Then again that dream could just be a sign that “Winter is coming”, but I think that is too obvious an interpretation knowing to what degree and depth GRRM has thought this whole thing through.

    What do y’all think?

  307. Easteros bunny
    Posted March 12, 2014 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    Who really wants the next book anyway when we’re getting the world of ice and fire? Wooho!

    Wouldn’t in make more sense to release the encylopedia of his world after he finishes the main story?

  308. Charles
    Posted March 12, 2014 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

    so i guess GRRM isn’t so worried about deadlines since he had time to pen another side story (prequel to TPATQ) in the upcoming Rogues anthology he co-edited with Dozois.

  309. Dolorous Ned
    Posted March 13, 2014 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    Charles

    Actually both stories were written at the same time as parts of a longer account of the dance with dragons.

  310. Lord Davos
    Posted March 13, 2014 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    Dolorous Ned,

    George has written on this for years, no different now.

  311. Tallus
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    Hornhillbilly,

    As a writer, I have no honest idea why anyone would take more than a few months to write a book. I wrote 57 chapters of my graphic novel in story form in about 28 days. Very few changes have been made in the editing process…mostly fine-tuning dialogue. If it takes so long to write a book, RR Martin is probably spending more time trying to remember what he write at the beginning than he is planning out the end. It’s like he’s never taken notes on ideas he’s had.

  312. aldea
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 5:59 am | Permalink

    With every passing year, I grow more convinced of the fact that the HBO Game of Thrones series is nothing but a very elaborate ruse from D&D in order to coax GRRM into finishing the books, or at least disclosing the ending details to them.

  1. Under Armour Flow Bro

    […] y finished now, and the book will likely appear in November 2014. He is nowhere […]

  2. […] tyder denne artikel i Vanity Fair på, at han gør! (måske) – via – (læs også interviewet med […]

  3. […] The cast was shot by acclaimed photographer Annie Leibovitz for the April cover of Vanity Fair. [Winter Is Coming] […]

  4. […] the same article in this month’s Vanity Fair, Benioff and Weiss admit steps are being […]

  5. […] Fair has released another great behind the scenes video from their Game of Thrones cover shoot. In this new video the cast dishes out some friendly advice to their characters ranging from […]

  6. […] Fair has released more of their interview with Peter Dinklage, featured in the Game of Thrones April 2014 issue of the […]


  • Recent Comments

  • RSS Recent Forum Topics

  • Archives

    • 2014 (1091)
    • 2013 (679)
    • 2012 (550)
    • 2011 (512)
    • 2010 (309)
    • 2009 (174)
    • 2008 (47)
  •