News

The title of episode 5 has been revealed

posterThe episode title popped up on HBO’s schedule for Sunday, May 4th. The fifth episode of season 4 will be called, “First of His Name.”

Game of Thrones episode titles often have multiple meanings and this could be one of them. There are a few possibilities as to whom the title could refer to, as “First of His Name” is often appended to a ruler’s name and there are several men across Westeros and Essos defending and scrambling for thrones.

Ours is the Fury: I do think the episode title is most likely referring to one important character, but to elaborate further would be very spoiler-filled territory.

 

163 Comments

  • Tommen, presumably. Although it’s a little weird that it’s three episodes after the presumed Purple Wedding. I could also see it tie into Stannis in a roundabout/ironic way, if they showed him doing his “kingly” (if slightly demeaning) duty by going and speaking to Tycho in this episode.

  • yeah but what does tommen even do? will it just be him getting sworn in and throwing tantrums over signing stuff?

  • Yeah, this title more-or-less seals the date of Tommen’s coronation. Should be a good scene, watching how small and lost he looks as the herald proclaims him “King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm. The visual alone should reinforce the idea that the Lannister’s reign is on very shaky ground.

    Solid choice overall. I wonder if we’ll get the rest of the titles week-by-week as they appear on HBO’s online schedule, or if they’ll eventually leak all at once, by press release or some other manner.

  • Tommen’s coronation? I’m really curious to see Dean Charles Chapman’s performance, hope he’s going to be no worse than great :)

  • Hmmmmm. Could refer to many but methinks one in particular. And I ain’t talkin no Yellow King here.

  • Anyone else think that the Purple Wedding might actually end up stretching across 2 episodes (2 and 3)? All we know of episode 2 so far is that it will feature Joff hosting a royal breakfast and that the episode will not be based entirely in Kings Landing. Maybe episode 2 will include the wedding itself and the reception and its aftermath will happen in episode 3. Sansa’s escape fits into the Breaker of Chains title of the 3rd episode too.

  • Lord Of The Waters,

    Seems unlikely. David Benioff mentioned in the Foreshadowing video that the wedding scene takes up “half of the episode”, and the leaked call sheet that’s been circulating confirms that the episode in question will be Episode 2. The general consensus is that “The Lion and the Rose” will end with Joffrey’s death and Cersei calling for Tyrion’s arrest. Sansa’s escape will then serve as the opening scene of Episode 3.

  • This is clearly a reference to King George III. To my British friends: get over it, we’re not coming back. (Though I could really go for a proper English breakfast right now…sausage, real bacon, eggs, mushrooms, tomatoes…ok, maybe we’ll come back.)

    Wait, George was the third of his name. That messes this all up.

    King Steven! You guys had a King Steven! Good grief.

  • Lord Of The Waters,

    I imagine ep 2 will end with Joffrey’s death, Cersei blaming Tyrion and we close with a shot of Tyrion being seized or just with an “oh shit” expression. Ep 3 will pick up right where we left off, including Sansa escaping.

  • Annara Snow,

    I saw that, too! But he was listed there last season, as well, so I think it’s just because he’s a big name.

    Ranok,

    King Petyr? So quickly? I wasn’t expecting that until almost the very end.

  • Annara Snow:
    On another note, Ciaran Hinds in listed in the cast list.

    The cast list is the same for every episode (of the season), so apart from the fact that he’s in the season, it indicates nothing, really.

  • Turncloak,

    Not according to the official synopsis, nor GRRM’s commentary for 307 where he states he wrote Ramsay’s whores into his episode despite not writing their original scene. It also hints at scenes with Bran and Stannis, so the PW will take up (at most) about half an hour.

  • Annara Snow,

    Yeah, with all due respect to HBO, the official Game of Thrones website isn’t the most reliable source when it comes providing up-to-date information about the series’ cast. Mia Souteriu, the actress who played Mirri Maz Duur, is still listed as a recurring player, while Iwan Rheon and Kristofer Hivju – both of whom will be regulars this season – aren’t even on the page at all.

    I’m more inclined to trust the press release, which says Ciaran Hinds will still be a recurring cast member.

  • The Dragon Demands: Did we ever get confirmation if that character got recast?

    He’s never been officially confirmed, funny enough. And he’s not listed anywhere, except IMDB which is of course fan-updated. There are glimpses of him in the background of some photos and Chapman regularly retweets GoT stuff and keeps up with GoT cast members- including ones he would’ve met filming the PW- on Twitter, so he’s definitely Tommen. But no, still no official word from HBO. I don’t know why they never bothered.

  • Jared: Yeah, with all due respect to HBO, the official Game of Thrones website isn’t the most reliable source when it comes providing up-to-date information about the series’ cast. Mia Souteriu, the actress who played Mirri Maz Duur, is still listed as a recurring player, while Iwan Rheon and Kristofer Hivju – both of whom will be regulars this season – aren’t even on the page at all.

    I’m more inclined to trust the press release, which says Ciaran Hinds will still be a recurring cast member.

    She’s referring to the specific episode guest cast listing, which actually is up-to-date and reliable. It lists Ciaran Hinds. He has long been confirmed for season 4, so people can relax.

  • Jared:
    Annara Snow,

    Yeah, with all due respect to HBO, the official Game of Thrones website isn’t the most reliable source when it comes providing up-to-date information about the series’ cast. Mia Souteriu, the actress who played Mirri Maz Duur, is still listed as a recurring player, while Iwan Rheon and Kristofer Hivju – both of whom will be regulars this season – aren’t even on the page at all.

    I’m more inclined to trust the press release, which says Ciaran Hinds will still be a recurring cast member.

    I never thought that he might be a regular cast member, we know he is not, but that this should mean that he is in this episode. If this is indeed accurate info.

  • Ours is the Fury,

    Dutchmaester is right about the cast list, though. It is the same for every episode in S4 which has shown up on the schedule so far, and S3 always listed Hinds, as well. (Of course that does not mean in any way that he won’t appear, because as you so rightly say, he has been confirmed multiple times).

  • This episode title is obviously a confirmation of Lady Stoneheart showing up at the end of season 3.

    Oh… wait…

  • GreatJon of Slumber:
    This is clearly a reference to King George III. To my British friends: get over it, we’re not coming back. (Though I could really go for a proper English breakfast right now…sausage, real bacon, eggs, mushrooms, tomatoes…ok, maybe we’ll come back.)

    Wait, George was the third of his name. That messes this all up.

    King Steven! You guys had a King Steven! Good grief.

    *Stephen

  • Annara Snow,

    Am I the only one who just doesn’t really care about Ciaran Hinds? He was just an okay Mance, and given that his appearance isn’t consistent from basically this point forward, it’s not like we NEED him around. I like consistency in actors and all that, but he is not one that I would lose sleep over getting recasted. He is a secondary character at best, and honestly Hinds did an underwhelming job with the part. Just my opinion, and one I know a multitude of people disagree with.

  • Canis Dirus,

    Hinds is a great actor and did a good job with the role he was given (which isnt really the same Mance from the books). He was also only in 3 episodes for a total screen time of less than 10 minutes so its safe to saay that if he features more and is given better content then he will be much more memorable

  • On topic, the titles this season are kind of meh aren’t they? Well, Oathbreaker and Breaker of Chains are good but other than that no so much.

  • Tyroshi Barber:
    What will the Unsullied make of that title?

    I’d imagine a lot-to-most don’t know any episode titles, especially folks who just turn on HBO once a week. Using the old, “How much of the show passes over my dad’s head?” test…there’s nothing to worry about, spoiler-wise. I mean, titles are titles for most things. Even when they tell what’s going to happen in a pretty clear way (think Ozymandias from Breaking Bad…), it only clues one into the tone of things.

  • Hand of the Kingslayer,

    I think the premier title is fine, Oathkeeper is good, this one’s good, Castle Black – if it is the real one for ep 9 – is okay. The only one I find really dull is The Lion and The Rose. *shrugs* But really, it’s episode titles, at some point you just run out of good ones.

  • All hail King Tommen of Houses Baratheon and Lannister, but mostly Lannister, First of His Name, King of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Cats. I wonder how long it will take Littlefinger to kill this one.

  • I think this was discussed a few times when the first trailer for season 4 came out, but do you think Cersei’s line of, “You’ll fight over him like beasts until you tear him apart! I will burn our house to the ground before I let that happen!” (not sure if that’s exactly right) is referring to Tywin’s decision to marry Tommen to Margaery despite the fact he’s not yet come of age? It would make a lot of sense, as it seems to be part of the conversation brought up again in the last trailer, and ties into Cersei’s general paranoia over the Tyrells. Any other thoughts on this matter?

  • Satin,

    I meant more in the general sense, considering how many people on WiC have been worried whether or not he would return, although, embarassingly, I did not understand why it was a topic of conversation on this particular thread until you pointed that out.

  • Valyrian Plastic,

    We know from either the instagram trailer for the Foreshadowing feature or the feature itself (I haven’t watched it in a week or so) that Cersei’s meeting with Oberyn is in episode five. (It was written on that clapper that you slam down to begin a take). So around the time of Tommen’s crowning, it would make sense for her to speculate “What good is power if we cannot protect the ones we love.”

  • This season willl focus a lot on Kings Landing. Another episode name refering to the arc of the capital

  • Canis Dirus,

    tastes differ? I liked him, though I totally see how someone might not (his Mance is not really like the book version). And I guess people sometimes just get worried a favourite character might not show up. I don’t know why in this particular case, but then, he’s not my favourite.

  • Talisa’s ghost,

    That’s a perfect example of why spoiler-tagging only specific words is NOT enough. It’s not that hard to figure certain things out from context. How stupid do people think the “unsullied” are?

  • Lady,

    If it’s something that will spoil the unsullied is the ep title itself, not my comment. It’s not exactly the most subtle one. The only time they said “first of his name” on the show is during Joffrey’s coronation, so if they say it again and use it as a title then it’s easy to speculate that another king is being crowned.

  • Talisa’s ghost,

    So because the only time they said “First of his name” was during Joffrey’s coronation, Unsullied will assume that Joffrey dies and Tommen will be crowned in this episode? Sound logic.

    Also, only tagging certain words is effective in creating a fun post but its important to remember that Unsullied know enough about the characters to infer when someone may or may not die based upon what you tag and untag. A lot of the time people only leave certain words untagged for the purposes of drawing your eye to what is untagged but in reality the tagged words have nothing to do with the message conveyed in the untagged words, such as this post. Anyways, I am just typing this for my own amusement, I apologize, but try not to spoil the show for people.

  • GreatJon of Slumber: This is clearly a reference to King George III. To my British friends: get over it, we’re not coming back. (Though I could really go for a proper English breakfast right now…sausage, real bacon, eggs, mushrooms, tomatoes…ok, maybe we’ll come back.)Wait, George was the third of his name. That messes this all up.King Steven! You guys had a King Steven! Good grief.

    and beans! and chips! don’t forget chips!… and now I’m hungry

  • GreatJon of Slumber:
    This is clearly a reference to King George III. To my British friends: get over it, we’re not coming back. (Though I could really go for a proper English breakfast right now…sausage, real bacon, eggs, mushrooms, tomatoes…ok, maybe we’ll come back.)

    Wait, George was the third of his name. That messes this all up.

    King Steven! You guys had a King Steven! Good grief.

    I’m holding my abdomen because I’m laughing so hard………. !

    1st of his name must certainly point to ser Pounce , of House Claws. Rival to
    House Clegane

  • Canis Dirus,

    I think you are selling Mr. Hinds and Mance short. I recall that his role in the books was more as a background presence to this point. He does get more active (and more to do) in the near future. I also think that the GoT show played up Tormund and gave him some of Mance’s role from the books, especially when it comes to suspecting and threatening Jon Snow regarding his “betrayal” of the Night Watch.

  • I’m still not over them recasting Tommen’s actor.
    The guy looks 16 now; he looks older than Joffrey imo.

    And why the hell did they get an actor that’s not only been in the previous season, but that also DIED?

  • I would love that in addition to Tommem which is the obvious reason they also include Balon’s death and some other new King is crowned! Even if we don’t get to see this new king until season 5 and this is just Yara getting the message

  • Renly’s Peach,

    They recast Tommen because show Margery is much older than book Margery, and fantasy TV or not, it just would have been a bit too ridiculous to have a 10 year old boy marry a almost 30 year old actress. And they went with someone they already knew and liked and felt confident that he could fulfill the more dominant role that Tommen will play as the story unfolds.

  • redviper,

    It should be noted that the original actor who portrayed Tommen is now 13-14. For all we know he looks just as old as the new kid, who is 15.

  • Renly’s Peach,

    because he was good. He doesn’t really look older than Jack Gleeson, and you can do a lot with makeup, hair, demeanour, etc. Besides, Our Robb was 19 at Edmure’s wedding. Age is obviously a special thing in Westeros.

    And we don’t know what Callum Wharry looks like now, maybe he had a massive growth spurt, and now towers over all the Mountains.

    Meanwhile, where dying is concerned, look at it this way: chances are high that poor Tommen won’t survive the series, so the actor is one of the few people on GoT who can say he didn’t only die horribly once, but twice!

  • Tyrion Pimpslap,

    That’s true, but he may have been adequate to just sit around for a few background scenes but not have had the acting abilities or proper chemistry with Natalie Dormer and others for the meatier material coming his way. They do this all the time on daytime TV! (Disclaimer: I am NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, comparing GOT to daytime TV!!!)

  • MUGger: I also think that the GoT show played up Tormund and gave him some of Mance’s role from the books, especially when it comes to suspecting and threatening Jon Snow regarding his “betrayal” of the Night Watch.

    I agree with this. I think they delayed the introduction of Styr because he’s a closed loop – a character that doesn’t survive very long nor make much of a connection with Jon Snow – to bring in Tormund and build up his role because Tormund later becomes something of a friend and confidante of Snow. Mance will still be Mance, but admittedly much of what he does in ASoS has not yet been shown yet other than the initial meetings, though when people say the characters are different, I still wonder if it’s mostly because Hinds is bigger than the Mance of the books, or because they didn’t have him playing an instrument.

  • Renly’s Peach:
    I’m still not over them recasting Tommen’s actor. The guy looks 16 now; he looks older than Joffrey imo.

    And why the hell did they get an actor that’s not only been in the previous season, but that also DIED?

    He does not look older than Jack Gleeson. He looks to be youthful, like 15 or so; Gleeson easily passes as 18-23.

  • Surely Kate Dickie is going to be in more than one episode IMDB only has her in 4.1, furthermore who is this Sarine Sofair? She’s in three, also I was stunned that Octavia is only listed in one episode too, I would think she would be escorting Bran across the whole season.

  • Satin,
    That is not the title for 9. Neil Marshall said it was an idea someone had for the episode title, and I believe Mr. Bryan Cogman also confirmed that wasn’t the title here in the comments at one point went asked.

  • Satin
    That is not the title for 9. Neil Marshall said it was an idea someone had for the episode title, and I believe Mr. Bryan Cogman also confirmed that wasn’t the title here in the comments at one point went asked.

  • tysnow,

    it’s imdb, so you have to take anything regarding actors that is put in before the episode airs with a grain of salt. Sometimes their agencies put in information, but often it’s fans who just put people who they know will show up somewhere in the season in the first episode.

    Pup Pup,

    alright. Thanks!

  • LymD: D&D pretty much confirmed it in the Blu-Ray commentary during the scene with Martyn. They said they had recast the actor as another Lannister.

    Did they specify exactly which one though? I assumed Dragon Demands was asking so he could stay on top of updating the Game of Thrones wiki. We all know that Chapman is the new Tommen, but it would be nice to have a quotable official source.

  • tysnow,
    Satin,

    Some of the imdb crediting is accurate when edited in by actor’s agencies but it is often very off. Episode one has many actors who will not be in episode one at all, they’ve just been pooled there as their casting news came out. Sarine Sofair for instance is credited in her CV as being in an Alik Sakharov directed ep. so maybe her imdb listing in episode six IS accurate. From her tweets and those of a porn star at the time she filmed, it looks like she’ll be a nude-girl-of-the-week perhaps in Braavos (courtesans one of those barges perhaps?) and with Davos Seaworth because the porn girl Samantha Bentley tweeted Liam Cunningham saying that she had worked with him. Also she posted a picture of her costume (which has since been deleted and it had a distinctively Essos look to it.

    As for Octavia Alexandru, wicnet has her CV listing somewhere and it credits her as appearing in an Alex Graves directed episode. In all likelihood this would mean episode eight or ten or both. That seems the correct place in the season for Bran and co. to come across the COTF and BR after their shenanigans at Craster’s Keep (confirmed to us now by the episode summary for “Oathkeeper”) are through.

  • tysnow: Surely Kate Dickie is going to be in more than one episode IMDB only has her in 4.1, furthermore who is this Sarine Sofair? She’s in three, also I was stunned that Octavia is only listed in one episode too, I would think she would be escorting Bran across the whole season

    Every single actor that was known to be in season 4, fans added them to IMDB under episode 1 of season 4. So it’s basically meaningless. They’re just in season 4 somewhere unless you see their episode number specified elsewhere. I think it’s safe to assume we’ll see Kate Dickie whenever we see Lino Facioli.

  • Ours is the Fury,

    They said they would pull a Deadwood. I’m certain they meant the kid playing the new Tommen because he was the one talking and they said something like “we really liked this kid so we brought him back in a different part” a la Deadwood with Garret Dillahunt and Dan Hildebrand.

  • Why does this site bother with spoiler tags? What kind of fucking idiot would come to this site if they want to avoid spoilers?

  • It is most likely Tommen. It might refer to Joffrey, and Tommen, or possible Robert also. All first of their names. But I have a feeling that it has to do with Joffrey’s funeral. Remember the title “A Golden Crown.” I bet the unsullied didn’t see that one coming.

  • Tommen and Stannis are both First of their Name. I wonder if there is another meaning.. Daenerys is a “first of her name”, Balon is a third of his name, but he might be dead by then, so Theon is another first oh his name.. or Reek is a first of his name in the show.

  • ColdDrake,

    People who assume that other won’t be complete assholes and spoil stuff for them? So, yes, expecting the best in people is pretty stupid.

  • Greenjones,

    No, I understand that .My point is, until they say, “Dean-Charles Chapman is playing Tommen,” it’s not officially confirmed. They’re still dancing around confirming officially that that actor is playing this role.

  • Ours is the Fury,

    Well the other two recasting bits of info (Daario and Gregor) were only confirmed by HBO after the actors were spotted/posted about their casting. I know Chapman had posts that alluded to his casting on twitter but IIRC he never out-and-out said he was back.

  • Canis Dirus:
    Talisa’s ghost,

    So because the only time they said “First of his name” was during Joffrey’s coronation, Unsullied will assume that Joffrey dies and Tommen will be crowned in this episode? Sound logic.

    Also, only tagging certain words is effective in creating a fun post but its important to remember that Unsullied know enough about the characters to infer when someone may or may not die based upon what you tag and untag. A lot of the time people only leave certain words untagged for the purposes of drawing your eye to what is untagged but in reality the tagged words have nothing to do with the message conveyed in the untagged words, such as this post. Anyways, I am just typing this for my own amusement, I apologize, but try not to spoil the show for people.

    Lol. Awesome.

  • I wonder if D&D will adjust the writing to fit Tommen being 14-16 and having a beautiful wife. I know myself at 14-16 would not be able to resist Margaery. I’d have an heir quickly.

  • Mini-hijack: I know I’m in the wrong thread here but I can’t remember where people were debating if Gendry is due to appear in this series, so in a one-woman attempt to shed some light on that, here’s what I’ve just spotted. Oh and this is my first attempt at a spoiler tag so in case it doesn’t work, if you don’t want to know, look away now….

    Here in London we have the Evening Standard newspaper – usually a reliable source – which today has a feature on a programme called New Worlds, including a mini interview with Joe Dempsie (Gendry). JD says a little about what’s already happened in GOT and other programmes he’s been in and what’s coming up in the future for him acting-wise. The person writing the feature says of GOT “No spoilers, but his role is set to swell dramatically in the next series, airing in April”

  • Lulu’s Mum,

    If this is true then why wasn’t he listed in the main cast this year in the HBO press release? I can’t imagine what they’d have him do.

  • Easily one of the worst posters I have EVER seen… I still can’t believe how bad it looks, such a shame for one of the greatest TV show of all time. Jena’s poster is miles better than the HBO version. The crow is nice though.

    Episode title is alright, I like it.

  • GreatJon of Slumber:
    This is clearly a reference to King George III. To my British friends: get over it, we’re not coming back. (Though I could really go for a proper English breakfast right now…sausage, real bacon, eggs, mushrooms, tomatoes…ok, maybe we’ll come back.)

    Wait, George was the third of his name. That messes this all up.

    King Steven! You guys had a King Steven! Good grief.

    Funnily enough, the Dance of Dragons in Westeros history is based on King Steven successfully taking the succession from his cousin Matilda aka Rhaenyra Targaryen.

  • Greenjones,

    Sorry, can’t help you there. I’m only semisullied – just a viewer who’s done a lot of Googling and spoiler reading to try and work out what’s going on and who everyone is, but never read the books. I have a general idea of where some of the main characters’ stories are likely to be going but would be less than useless on detailed speculation of what is going to happen or how, where and why HBO do stuff. Not my area of expertise at all I’m afraid :O( just posted the info ‘cos I thought it might be interesting for those in the know.

  • The PW won’t happen in Ep02.The synopsis said that “Tyrion lends Jaime a hand”,which is pretty clear Jaime got his golden hand in this episode.In the early released “Foreshadowing” Jaime had a confrontation with king Joff,and he was wearing his golden hand in that scene.D&D said that the PW will take almost half of an episode,if the PW was in Ep02,it will be so rushed and weird(Tyrion lends Jaime a hand—the confrontation scene—the breakfast—the wedding ceremony in the Sept of Baelor—the wedding feast).From the synopsis we can also tell that Stannis and Bran will appear in this episode,obviously a single episode does not have so much time.So I think the PW will happen in Ep05 instead of Ep02.

  • Leo,

    I think maybe they changed the story to “Jaime tasks Brienne with finding Arya”?. Since Arya was missing,and Sansa had already married Tyrion,her mother and brother are dead,and Winterfell was ruined.Maybe Jaime and Brienne thought it‘s more appropriate for her to stay with Tyrion.

  • redviper,

    Let’s hope not, but not much else has changed. Do you remember the props
    worn by Lyza for those scenes ? I’m ordering up a pair, pronto !

  • Lulu’s Mum,

    I’m reading the Dempsie article, and the phrasing just seems weird, how they slipped a sentence seemingly about GoT in there.

    “Along with just about every other male actor in London, Joe Dempsie auditioned to play Jon Snow in HBO’s Game of Thrones. But unlike the hundreds who were turned away, Dempsie, 26, ended up with a consolation prize: the part of Gendry, the bastard son of Robert Baratheon. No spoilers, but his role is set to swell dramatically in the next series, airing in April. ‘It was by far the best part I went in for,’ he says.”
    And then they move on for a bit. It doesn’t make sense for his part to swell dramatically in S4. Gendry might appear, but he had a sizable role in S3 so how could it get dramatically bigger in S4? Hmmm.

    Not to mention Dempsie isn’t in the main cast listing on the HBO schedule, which actually suggests a reduced role or him not being on this year. Huh.

  • The only way I could see Gendry appearing this season is if they condense the entire Brienne AFFC arc into this series to eliminate a lot of filler from a busy season 5. This way they could have Brienne run into Gendry during the Rorge and Bitter encounter and then end the season with her running into LS as many on here have speculated. This would get Gendry into the same position he is supposed to be in with the books. If they decide to do the Brienne arc in mostly season 5 then Im not expecting to be seeing him this season.

  • About Gendry in S4

    Davos sent him to Kings Landing, I see him Tagging along with Brienne and Podrick…or maybe even replacing Podrick. So Brienne travels with Gendry and their stories will sync up when they encounter Biter. And then funny enough Bree and Gendry sync up with their book counterparts again.

  • I like to approach spoiler tags with this in mind:

    What would someone get by reading the un-spoilered sections of my post? If what I’m writing doesn’t make any sense if you don’t also read the spoiler bits, then I might as well spoiler-tag the whole sentence.

  • Omar Brown,

    There have been in-production photos posted of Brienne and Podrick together on set in Iceland, so it’s unlikely that Pod will be replaced.

  • Don’t think this is spoilery, but just in case way out of my depth here guys so can’t offer anything helpful. As I said, not a book reader so no idea where Gendry’s story goes or how it gets there. All I can tell you is that it’s a daily newspaper with a circulation of 1.5 million (free, hence the popularity) and doesn’t print the sort of very-tenuous-relation-with-the-truth things you see in some gossip mags. The writer could be mistaken or badly edited I guess, but they are very unlikely to put something in to wind people up or deliberately throw them off track, it’s really not their style. Or perhaps it takes a very surreal turn and he’s in it for 30 seconds but has actually gained massive amounts of weight or grown 15ft, due to a flaw in one of Mel’s spells. (That is a very crappy word play joke by the way, it’s 5am here I really need to go to bed.) That’s the beauty for those of us who only have a general idea of the overall story, in theory absolutely anything could happen.

  • Ours is the Fury:
    Lulu’s Mum,

    [snip] And then they move on for a bit. It doesn’t make sense for his part to swell dramatically in S4. Gendry might appear, but he had a sizable role in S3 so how could it get dramatically bigger in S4? Hmmm.

    Not to mention Dempsie isn’t in the main cast listing on the HBO schedule, which actually suggests a reduced role or him not being on this year. Huh.

    It might simply refer to the fact that he’s no longer Arya’s sidekick, which definitely is a change in focus (compare Sam being Jon’s conversation partner vs Sam actually being out and about).

    And the schedule cast list didn’t have him on last year, either. The press release, meanwhile, leaves people out – not to mention they list only 28 regulars, while we know via EW it’s 29 (and via the Galo.com article that Pedro is only recurring).

    If Gendry is in King’s Landing, they could conceivably have him interact with half the cast. He even could, as has been suggested elsewhere, help forge Oathkeeper and Widow’s Wail. It’s not like they’ve not invented stuff for characters before, and if he is important for the story later on, it makes more sense to keep him around than just let him disappear for dozens of episodes.

    Lulu’s Mum,

    thanks for posting the link. I actually read that, but kept my mouth shut, because people are so convinced that Gendry won’t play a role this season, and I was frankly tired of arguing. If you care for a small book spoiler about the character’s whereabouts right now in the books he actually stays with the BWB. That was a pretty significant change on the show. Pragmatically, I liked it, because it got him more screentime.

  • In other news, my friend in Post Production has just announced that GOT season 4 is officially finished and ready :)

  • Ours is the Fury,

    I’ve suspected for a while thatGendry would replace Hyle Hunt as Brienne’s travel companion, since Brienne is tasked with finding both Arya and Sansa, and Gendry can lead her to the BWB where he last saw Arya, which is ultimately where Brienne’s journey will take her

  • Syrio,

    while I could see that, I still don’t think that would lead him to tell her where Arya is. Even if he believes she’s a good person, there’s still her connection to the Lannisters to consider (much like he didn’t tell Davos he met Arya, either, and there would have been an opening for that when they talked about Highborns).

  • Syrio,

    It’s not really replacing Hyle Hunt as much as it a complete different change. A logical change, though. The speed in which they’re going with Brienne’s arc tells me they’re going all the way. It’s possible Brienne finds Gendry somewhere and he tells her he’s looking for Arya. The last he’s seen of Arya, she was with the Brotherhood. So Brienne goes looking for the Brotherhood, and what do you know- who is that new leader they’ve got?! I think they will make it the ASOS epilogue, though, not Brienne’s last AFFC chapter. That should wait for season 5, it would be too much mind fuck to take in in one episode.

  • Hand of the Kingslayer,

    there is still a trust problem, though. I don’t think Gendry would tell Brienne that he knows where Arya is – and why would he be looking for her, anyway? Last he knew, she was with the Brotherhood and they wanted to bring her to her grandfather in Riverrun. He won’t go to the BWB and ask them if they put her there.

    Basically, I could totally see Gendry travel with Brienne and Pod (leaving aside that nobody saw him in Iceland at the moment, that could have many reasons after all), but I see no reason for him to trust Brienne enough to tell her that he knows Arya, so his reasons for going with her or following her have to be different.

    That said, if Jaime still goes to Riverrun to parlay with the Blackfish, it makes just as much sense for Gendry to follow along seemingly to work, because that way he wouldn’t have to tell anyone about any fugitives he knows, and it’s easier to find out Jaime goes there than finding out about Brienne’s quest. But I trust they’ll find a way to put everyone where they need to put them without bending logic too much. (Geography, different matter.)

  • Satin,

    The thing is, Gendry’s in or around King’s Landing right now. If he’s going to appear this season, it’ll have to be in Brienne’s storyline, no? Who else could it be…

    Why would he tell them? Well, if Gendry participates in Brienne’s ear-spitting fight scene with Biter and Rorge, it would make sense that he would gain Brienne’s trust. He also isn’t aware of the strong ties she has with Jamie. All he’ll know is thay she is a good woman with good intentions (who has a lot of similarities with Arya) and is looking for her. I don’t see why he wouldn’t give the girl a hand. Especially if he wants to find Arya too.

    But it definitely could be cool if he pops up in some completely random storyline with completely random characters. I think he’ll pull a Pyp in season 3 and only appear in a couple of scenes near the end.

  • Hand of the Kingslayer,

    I don’t think it has to be Brienne, actually. I’m trying to think how this could go back to his book storyline, and on the basis of GRRM still planning the 5-year-gap when he wrote ASOS, I’ve actually thought for quite a while that Gendry was simply “parked” with the BWB – you know, like Bran ended with Bloodraven, Arya went to Braavos, Dany settled down in Meereen, Jon became LC – for learning, but not as an end destination. And looking at book canon, the next POVs he is most likely to meet because they are closest are either Sansa or Jaime. For what it’s worth, personally I’d think Jaime would be a lot more interesting, and Jaime is in King’s Landing on the TV show.

    I still don’t know why he should want to find Arya – he doesn’t know that she is gone. He believes that she’s with her family, and I’m sure he still doesn’t want to be her servant, even if the BWB are liars, and his bio family sucks.

    As for telling Brienne, I don’t think that works, because it’s simply not his secret to tell. If the show has him spill it out, okay, I’m wrong, but so far, the way I see the character in both book and TV version, this is something he wouldn’t give away.

    I don’t think so. In fact I would bet he’s in the first episode. And I have an inkling where he might show up, too, but I’m not going to jinx that. ;) Let’s wait and see.

  • Satin,

    Okay. But obviously, having heard about the horrors of the Red Wedding with no mention of Arya, it must have left Gendry wondering. I would like to hear your guess, though.

    I can definitely see Jaime meeting Gendry now that Brienne is taking him to Stoneheart, but I don’t see how it will change anything or reshape Gendry’s path.

  • Hand of the Kingslayer,

    absolutely, though he could still think/hope she was brought to Riverrun instead of the Twins (on the show the BWB didn’t know Team Stark/Tully went to the wedding, remember).

    My guess is, somewhat boringly, that he will forge the swords, a) because we haven’t heard anything that Tobho Mott’s actor returns and b) because it does seem a general question of importance whether Gendry can reforge Valyrian steel. In the books, his master is pretty much the only one who can, and it remains to be seen if he has passed on that knowledge. On the show, I bet he can do it, and with Valyrian steel being helpful against Others/White Walkers, I’d think that would be a pretty important plot point.

    I don’t think it will reshape his path so much, but a lot of readers seem to be convinced that he will stay with the BWB, and I’ve always thought that’s really unlikely, especially because he doesn’t seem to be that happy with them in the books – he doesn’t go to their camp when they bring in Brienne, for instance, and given that he joined them because they were fair, he probably doesn’t enjoy their new “direction.” (Show kind of skipped that by making him already pissed off at them.) Given that Jaime helped Pia, the serving girl who was so badly mistreated in Harrenhal, without any selfish notions (and she probably knows Gendry from back then and could have told him, if they met again), I could imagine Book!Gendry taking his side against Lady S.

  • Satin,

    That’s a new guess. It could work. Maybe Gendry returns to work at the armory, and there gets the job. Hell, maybe he does both our guesses. That would qualify for a “boosted role”, wouldn’t it?

    As for the second part… I don’t see Gendry actively fighting the BWB because of their new leader. He could easily leave them or refuse to obey, but to fight them? I think not. Maybe Gendry just runs off with Brienne/Jamie after their confrontation with Stoneheart.

  • Satin,

    Maybe, but who the hell knows. This is GRRM, after all. I’m definitely a believer in the reforging of Ice into Lightbringer, though, and Gebdry could definitely be the one to do the deed. On that I agree.

  • Hand of the Kingslayer,

    you’re right, we should never forget about that.

    Makes sense, doesn’t it? Oh well, we’ll see. I’m usually about 70% right when it comes to guessing plots on the show.

    I mean, the ones we don’t already know.

  • Kit:
    Tommen, presumably. Although it’s a little weird that it’s three episodes after the presumed Purple Wedding. I could also see it tie into Stannis in a roundabout/ironic way, if they showed him doing his “kingly” (if slightly demeaning) duty by going and speaking to Tycho in this episode.

    WELL THEY NEED TO HOLD THE TRIAL AND STUFF FOR TYRION, HIS MURDER OF TYWIN AND PROBABLY HIS ESCAPE FROM WESTEROS SO I CAN SEE THAT SPANNING THREE EPISODES.

  • Satin,

    Woah, judging by what came after that debate started again I see what you mean about arguing! I just thought people might find it interesting, not be trying to outdo the situation in Ukraine on the passionately held views level. Perhaps I’ll keep things to myself in future.

    On a side note, if you’re in the UK, do you wonder why Davos is apparently a Geordie* when no-one else in the show has a remotely similar accent? I assumed he was supposed to be from another part of the GOT universe to everyone else until he and he-who-may-or-may-not-reappear-in-S4 had a conversation about both being from King’s Landing. As the guy who plays him is Irish it seems an odd accent to pick. Maybe he just likes it?

    Think I’m on safer ground here, I’m guessing a lot of people on this site are from North America so most of the cast probably sound fairly similar to them. [Posts and ducks in case I’ve accidentally started accent wars.]

    *Sorry to anyone from that part of the world, using “Geordie” as a catch-all term as from the south of England and can’t tell the subtle differences between Newcastle, Sunderland, Durham etc. Only that it sounds north east, above Yorkshire, below Scotland.

  • Lulu’s Mum,

    Oh, this is harmless. Don’t go into the thread with the article about GRRM that is a few posts above, that one is pretty bad. (And I’m grateful you mentioned it. At least I wasn’t the only one who read that!)

    I’m actually not from the UK, so I can’t answer the accent question… I know the accents get a little varied on the show, even when the people are supposed to be from the same region (Robb got a bit Scottish now and then, Ned was Sheffield, etc etc). I’ve never heard Liam Cunningham talk about Davos’ accent, either, but maybe he does like it. It sounds pretty friendly to me, which would fit the character of course.

  • Satin,

    Hadn’t thought about the accents much, just noticed his as it’s really quite a strong regional one compared to most of the others and not one you often hear. But now I am pondering them, at the risk of being massively stereotypical the way he speaks in the show is often regarded as a say-things-as-you-see-them, working class kind. From what I’ve seen of Davos, like you said it suits his character. As it’s an American show they may well have said just go with what you think makes sense for the character ‘cos most of the viewers won’t have a clue whether it sounds right. Give it 5 mins and someone may well post a don’t-you-watch-every-single-behind-the-scenes-documentary-they’ve-already-said-that’s-what-they-do comment. To which the answer is no, I enjoy the show but I’m not studying for a Phd in it. For me, with something like this that’s not supposed to be set in a world I’m familiar with, I like to keep a bit of mystery. If I know all the background details it spoils the overall effect so I’m selective in what I want to find out about it, otherwise I don’t enjoy it as much.

  • Lulu’s Mum,

    yeah, too much behind-the-scenes stuff can be a little overwhelming. I’m interested in production design and costume design and things like that, but filming itself, not so much. And I think a lot of these are meant to draw in new viewers, and I don’t really need to be persuaded to watch it anymore.

    I’ve never thought you’d need a PhD to enjoy the show. A lot of my friends are casual viewers – one of them somewhat heartlessly said the Red Wedding helped him since he now had to remember fewer characters – and they are able to follow the whole thing just fine. (We also have the other extreme of someone who read the books back when they came out, and already gave up in disgust after the first half of Book 3 – obviously she was reading the UK edition.)

    Hmm, this is really interesting. Maybe Cunningham thought of it himself, to add a bit of “salt of the earth” quality to the character? It might be a bit stereotypical for viewers from the British Isles, but most others likely wouldn’t notice much more than a certain additional layer of “trustworthiness.”

    By the way, how do you feel about Peter Dinklage’s accent? I’ve heard a lot of people say that he is exaggerating it a bit too much, but as an ESL, I couldn’t tell.

  • Satin,

    I didn’t mean that the accent is stereotypical, but that it’s a massive generalisation to say that everyone who speaks a certain way is a certain type of person. However if you are going to generalise that’s what that accent is often associated with. Now that I think about it, most of the high born characters speak with what’s known as received pronunciation – English without a regional accent. “Posh” people are taught to speak like that regardless of where they’re from. Tywin and Olenna are two good examples off the top of my head. PD’s accent sounds ok to me, perhaps a bit of a mixture but not really off.

    The weirdest thing about watching this as a Brit is seeing people I know from other programmes playing very different characters to the ones I’m used to seeing them doing. Bronn and King Robert in particular are revelations in this and drastically different from what they usually do.

    P.S. At the risk of sounding dumb, what’s an ESL (question mark key has died so just imagine one here).

  • I don’t know why you guys are not seeing this, maybe it’s because you don’t want to, but this episode title is confirming that they will make Tywin the king instead of Joffrey. Tommen wouldn’t be “the first of his name” since Joffrey was also a Baratheon. And they clearly want to add gravity to Tywin’s arc this season for obvious reasons. Mark my words, Tywin will be king.

  • eleven:
    I don’t know why you guys are not seeing this, maybe it’s because you don’t want to, but this episode title is confirming that they will make Tywin the king instead of Joffrey. Tommen wouldn’t be “the first of his name” since Joffrey was also a Baratheon. And they clearly want to add gravity to Tywin’s arc this season for obvious reasons. Mark my words, Tywin will be king.

    “First of his name” refers to the first name…

  • Lulu’s Mum,

    ah, okay. This is totally fascinating. I think they did a general divide, where the Southerners are more likely to have an RP accent, while those from the North have Northern accents. And those actors from other European countries whose characters are from Essos – Shae, Jaqen, Melisandre – seem to use “national” accents (Carice van Houten does international movies so often, I’m sure she could speak accent-free if she wanted).

    Oh, I remember Mark Addy/Robert from “The Full Monty,” this is quite a bit different! And I love knowing so many actors from other things, but also discovering new ones. Bronn is quite famous as a singer, isn’t he?

    As Greenjones said, ESL means English as a second language. I’m German. Internet discussions are a good opportunity for me to practise “speaking” English, there are not so many other ways I can do that without travelling.

  • Greenjones,

    Aaah I see, thank you

    Satin,

    Well, may I congratulate you on your excellent written English. You certainly type like a native. Apparently English is structurally a lot more complicated than many other languages because it breaks so many of its own rules and plenty of people who are taught it as a first language run into problems, never mind anyone else.

    I like your accent theory, I’m going to have to pay more attention to how people are saying things, particularly the more “ordinary” parts rather than the nobility. I’ll let you know what I spot.

    The guy who plays Bronn (who is actually from the area where they speak the way Davos does in the show) is known for ‘light entertainment’ and was very popular in the mid-90s, although we haven’t seen much of him lately before he popped up in GOT. I never watched the programme he was famous for (not even sure what it was called) but he and his co-star had a number of hits in the music charts. They were actors who did a bit of cheesy (if you know that expression) singing rather than singers who also act. If you don’t mind forever ruining your image of him as a bad ass, try this (he’s the one on the left) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b74A7BP6Rvo. Thoros of Myr (hope that’s the correct spelling, got it off IMDB) was a comedian https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v654Jh5Z9uI. If you’re interested in any others let me know and I’ll have a think. Note to self: got to stop using so many brackets!

  • Lulu’s Mum,

    Thank you, thank you. *bows* I love languages, but thanks to my lazy teenage self, English and German are the only ones I’m able to use fluently. I’m currently trying to get a bit of my middle school French back… XP

    I cannot watch the first video for copyright reasons, but the second one… that’s Paul Kaye? Seven hells…

    I know many of the others, I think… it took me ages to realize where I knew Joe Dempsie from, and then it was Doctor Who (I had heard of Skins, but never seen it). And I’ve seen so much stuff with Tywin or Maester Luwin… or even Pycelle, who I only recently found out was in the first Indiana Jones.

  • It will be a Dany-centric episode where someone, Barristan most likely, tells her a story about Aegon the Conqueror. You can’t see too much in a title; even those are crafted to lead viewers astray.

  • Satin,

    Look for “Robson and Jerome” on You Tube. That song is “I believe” but there are loads of others. I picked that video because they are wearing gold lame suits (as in the material, rather than “lame” the insult, but I don’t know how to get the accent on the “e”). When you do find one Bronn is the smaller, darker haired crooner. The other being very different from in GOT best ones I’ve seen are probably Gilly in Skins (never watched it but seen a picture of her in it and she looks very different), the Hound in Hot Fuzz and Stannis in The Tunnel – smiling, joking, enjoying life – scary! Do try and find the I believe video though, you’ll never look at him the same way again!

  • D’Arcy,

    Yeah… After I posted that I started to wonder if my logic was right. Everyone are allowed mistakes but I DO wish I hadn’t sounded that overly confident and pompous. Not one of my better moments for sure.

    BUT, I do still believe that there is a reasonable chance they’re going to make Tywin king, but ofcourse this time it’s just a shot in the dark.

  • Satin,

    EDIT: Just realised I got distracted watching the I believe video by wondering what had happened to the other bloke, Robson Green. He’s the smaller one on the left, Bronn’s the larger blonde guy.

  • Lulu’s Mum,

    Oh dear, that’s… wow. Very different. *giggles*

    Hannah and Joe are both very good in Skins, they were in the first generation. Their characters are really very different from Gilly and Gendry.

    One find that made me grin, too: Joffrey in Batman Begins. He was still small and adorable back then!

  • Satin,

    I hope he wears that suit to Joff and Marj’s wedding! Although could be executed for trying to out-glam the bride.

    I think the most entertaining spots are where people are playing a very different role from their GOT one. Obviously a lot of the more established actors have been in loads of stuff anyway. A quick glance down the cast list, well as quick as it can be when there are about 750 of them, and these strike me as maybe worth a look if you haven’t already seen them: the English version of the Office (Orell and Dagmer Cleftjaw); the first St. Trinian’s film (Cersei); and Submarine (Locke).

    Theon’s real life sister is a pop singer (Lilly Allen) and he’s apparently in one of her videos, although never seen it. There are also a few alumni of Hollyoaks in this, which is aimed at a similar audience to Skins so if you liked that you could give it a whirl. Lancel was a child actor and looks unrecognisable in some stuff and the thing I know Littlefinger from originally was (the English original of) Queer As Folk. Plus the other day Varys turned up in Inside No 9 with hair. These people get everywhere, trying to keep track of them all is a full time job in itself.