George R.R. Martin’s plan to keep the show from catching up, in Vanity Fair
By Ours is the Fury on in Interview.

George R.R. Martin

As part of their in-depth cover story on Game of Thrones in the April issue, Vanity Fair spoke with George R.R. Martin on a variety of topics. Most importantly the author discussed the one thing that’s been on everyone’s mind for the last few years which has been, “Can he keep the show from passing him?”

Vanity Fair tells Martin that executive producers David Benioff and D.B. Weiss stated in their interview that “they are getting close to you, with the show.” Martin confirms that he’s given Benioff and Weiss the “broad strokes” of what he’ll be writing, but is still hopeful that he can prevent them from catching up to him. He elaborates:

The season that’s about to debut covers the second half of the third book. The third book [A Storm of Swords] was so long that it had to be split into two. But there are two more books beyond that, A Feast for Crowsand A Dance with Dragons. A Dance with Dragons is itself a book that’s as big as A Storm of Swords. So there’s potentially three more seasons there, between Feast and Dance, if they split into two the way they did [with Storms]. Now, Feast and Dance take place simultaneously. So you can’t do Feast and then Dance the way I did. You can combine them and do it chronologically. And it’s my hope that they’ll do it that way and then, long before they catch up with me, I’ll have published The Winds of Winter, which’ll give me another couple years. It might be tight on the last book, A Dream of Spring, as they juggernaut forward.

Martin puts forth the idea of a prequel season, mentioning his Dunk & Egg stories, as well as his recent Targaryen-centered novella, “The Princess and the Queen,” as examples of Westeros-based material that could be used. He is aware of the press for time, particularly as there are young cast members such as Maisie Williams growing more adult every day.

Read the full article at Vanity Fair to see what George thinks about keeping readers off-balance, who his favorite Lord of the Rings character is, and how he really feels about the look of Game of Thrones.

Ours is the Fury: I think Martin might be a little too optimistic about how many seasons can be gotten out of AFFC and ADWD.  Although I’d love to see an adaptation of some of the prequel novellas, I’m not looking forward to waiting extra years between seasons of GoT if it comes to that, and I don’t think HBO would go for it, in my opinion.


566 Comments

  1. Greatness Arrisessss
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    The man’s completely delusional.

  2. Daniellica
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    Hodor!

  3. King Tommen
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    That quote from GRRM is pretty much 100% delusion. How about not taking 5 years to write a book? It’s not like this is some unprecedented endeavor in the fiction-writing community.

  4. Al Swearengen
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    I’d like to see two seasons covering AFFC and ADWD but I have a feeling D & D are going to cut out a lot of stuff and chop some major characters.

    Just please give me Victarion and Arianne.

  5. GeekFurious
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    Frodor!

    They could make the next two books into 3 seasons. No doubt about it. They could utilize material from the upcoming book as a setup, since it will most likely be out by the time the 6th season is being written. That means they have enough material for two more seasons BEFORE he has to deliver the final book.

    However, that would also mean 9 seasons.

  6. Kingslayer
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    GRRM wrote the books and even he has no clue what he’s talking about as far as the show goes. They are right on the verge of catching up if TWOW isn’t out by 2015.

  7. John M W
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

    He really thinks AFFC/ADWD will amount to 3 seasons for the series?

    Oh, George. *sigh*

    Wall… meet George. George… read Wall.

  8. kentobeans
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    Can’t wait to see his reaction when they finish up AFFC and ADWD before he anticipates them to.

  9. worthing
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    This actually suggests to me that GRRM isn’t quite as involved in the production of the show as I’d suspected. Does he not realize how much of ADWD and AFFC are already being kicked off in season 4? Or has he not heard the showrunners repeatedly telling him that they’re looking at 7, maybe 8 seasons? Lovely writer, but a bit of a goof.

  10. David
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Al Swearengen:
    I’d like to see two seasons covering AFFC and ADWD but I have a feeling D & D are going to cut out a lot of stuff and chop some major characters.

    Just please give me Victarion and Arianne.

    but aren’t two seasons useless?? in a ASOS a lot of things happened but it can’t be said about AFFC/ADWD. less useless characters/plots and more focus on the important ones.

  11. Shane Leavitt
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    James Hibbard said the other day, he personally feels books 4 & 5 should be combined to make one season.

  12. sjwenings
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    3 seasons of Dany in Mereen? 3 seasons of Tyrions travels? And of Jon pondering his options at the wall?

    He cannot possibly have been thinking this over. Or been talking to D&D about this. …or be serious, really?

    If somehow he is, he’s in for a rude awakening. Season 5 will more or less cover it all, lol!

  13. Greenjones
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Have me gotten any indication yet that he’s writing an episode for S5? Surely by now he’d know how much ground they’re to cover next year? Wouldn’t he?

  14. Satin
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    I’m sometimes wondering if he simply says these things to calm readers. He’s worked as a television writer for years, he should know that it won’t work this way, and the PTB have said several times that they won’t adapt AFFC/ADWD like they adapted the first three books, I doubt that he really managed never to catch that.

    (Of course, it’s a good way to kinda shift the blame to the production/HBO once they catch up with him, because of course *he* has always suggested a model that would “work.”)

  15. King Tommen
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    I’m wondering if anyone has let George know that the reason they split ASoS into 2 seasons is because it’s the best book and they wanted to make sure they did justice to all the great moments that occur there.

    3 seasons to cover AFFC/ADwD would have TV viewers throwing themselves off bridges in boredom. These were bridge books that neglected to have culminating events that would lend themselves to season climaxes. There’s plenty of good stuff that happens in them but him pushing back the big events to future books ensures that the show needs to get through them as quickly as possible so that the show momentum doesn’t stagnate.

  16. Redking
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    Benioff and Weiss are also a bit delusional to think seven seasons might still be possible.

    Eight seasons seems the minimum to not rush the story into an incomprehensible mess.

  17. Nick Larter
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    The man’s in cloud cuckoo land. They’re already using post Storm material and I’m damn sure they’ll be looking to drop all the suet from Feast and Dance and get them both pretty much wrapped up by the end of S5. At best (for GRRM) one can imagine a few last dregs of Dance hanging over into S6. His only chance is to deliver such goods in spades with Winds, that it compels them to spend two seasons on it and eight for the show in all. I’d give him about a 1 in 5 chance of pulling that off.

  18. Myk
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    He knows what he’s doing. I think he’ll drop Winds on us all out of nowhere and sooner than anyone would think.

  19. Jackson
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    George has until 2016. This next season is the second half of Storm of Swords; A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons will probably become 2 seasons, with a lot cut out. There’s no way the show will be caught up before 2016, that would almost require only a single season for the 2 latest books, which is ridiculous.

  20. Jaybles
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    A prequel season (or half season) would be fantastic and there is a way to do it with the cast members we’ve already seen in the show. The greyjoy rebellion (which could be the subtitle for the season) if it was adapted would be able to have Jaimie Lannister, Jorah Mormont, Thoros of Myr, Berric Dondarion, the Clegaine brothers, Barristan Selmy, Balon Greyjoy, Stannis Baratheon, plus Jory, Catlin, Cercei, Tywin, King Robert (yay), a new actor to play John Arryn, all of the small council members plus NED STARK and many more all in the one story. How awesome would that be?!? :)

  21. Nick_Scryer
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    As much as I like AFFC/ADWD as books, if they were made into anything more than 1 & a half seasons of tv I think I’d cry for days.

    Thankfully since we’re getting 7/8 seasons, I don’t think I’ll need the kleenex.

  22. Al Swearengen
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    David,

    Lets be honest you can throw out a lot of AFFC chapters, stuff like Brienne looking for Sansa, Dorne and the Iron Islands Kings/Queens Moot don’t need more than one season to cover.

  23. sjwenings
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    Jackson: that would almost require only a single season for the 2 latest books, which is ridiculous.

    Considering so little happens in them, I don’t think it is. They’ll also cut characters (Quentyn, Victarion) and possibly wrap up storylines for a while, in s4 (Brienne and maybe Bran)
    All the (and theres a lot) descriptions of landscapes, food, and what not will, be cut, and all the inner monologues – also a whole lot – will be compressed, as usual.

    If you just think of those two books in simple terms and big/semibig events. They’re SO much shorter than you might think.

  24. Jim_BO
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

    Is he serious? Is he delusional? Has he gone mad?

    I mean really?

    After the meeting with the TV producers not long ago he still has delusions of the next three seasons covering solely the digestion descriptions and travel logs that were AFFC/DWD?

    It sounds to me like he is in some way blackmailing David and Dan by not giving them detailed facts where the story will go (if he even knows ….)

  25. Morgan
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    He needs to stop worrying about all of his little side projects and just finish the book already. There’s no way they’re going to spend 3 seasons on AFFC and ADWD. Plus, does he not realize that many of the characters’ storylines are going start going into AFFC/ADWD territory by the end of this season? I agree he is screwed if the sixth book is not out before season 5 airs.

    Realistically, there’s no way he finishes the series before the show catches up to him unless he’s already finished with TWOW and is just messing with us.

  26. worthing
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    Jackson:
    George has until 2016. This next season is the second half of Storm of Swords; A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons will probably become 2 seasons, with a lot cut out. There’s no way the show will be caught up before 2016, that would almost require only a single season for the 2 latest books, which is ridiculous.

    That’s not really what’s happening, though. Based on casting notices and trailers, it’s clear that some storylines will be dipping well into AFFC/ADWD. Yes, some stories, especially those at King’s Landing, still have a ton of ASOS to get through, but think back to last year. Several story arcs ended with just one or two POV chapters from the third book still to go.

  27. wizardeyes
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Oh George you poor sweet summer child. He’s gonna have a rude awakening soon enough.

    FFC and DWD will be covered at least 90% by season 5. Alot of stuff from them is even gonna be in season 4! Brienne’s travels and Theon at Moat Cailin etc.

    If FFC and DWD were split over 2 seasons then season 5 would be the most uneventful season ever! What would the finale be!? Cersei fingering Taena Merryweather and Jon having a chat with Melisandre? To be able to stand up to season 4 season 5 is gonna need moments like Daznak’s Pit, Quentyn freeing the dragons, Cersei’s penance walk and Jon being stabbed in its last 2 episodes.

  28. Don't care
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    GRRM is absolutely brilliant and the most devious mind of the twenty first, nay, human history. Have D&D spend three years on Feast and Dance that way he won’t have to ever worry about the show catching up because it will be cancelled before it comes to that.

  29. Jim_BO
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    I think i see whats going on here. When D&D took on the job of bringing the books to TV AFFC has not been published yet.

    We all know from interviews GRRM hates the idea of cuting the material out of his books and with the first 3 books witch are phenomenal there is no problem. But D&D could not have known that AFFC/DWD would be horrible basicly just filler with nothing happening for 90% of the time.

    So now how to they make this man realize that the last 2 books are worth 1 tv season max without making him angry? They seem to be trying by limiting the number of seasons but he seems to be fighting them by not giving them details of the last 2 books. That was hes forcing them to either make up their own story or film the filler rubish.

  30. Shannon
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Redking:
    Benioff and Weiss are also a bit delusional to think seven seasons might still be possible.

    Eight seasons seems the minimum to not rush the story into an incomprehensible mess.

    Agreed agreed agreed. I think eight seasons is just perfect.

  31. Jeff O'Connor
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Don’t care:
    GRRM is absolutely brilliant and the most devious mind of the twenty first, nay, human history. Have D&D spend three years on Feast and Dance that way he won’t have to ever worry about the show catching up because it will be cancelled before it comes to that.

    My thoughts exactly. ;)

  32. Turri
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Is he trying to troll us there? Because that just doesn’t add up.

    You’ve got 10 months to finish the book if you want them to use it, George, not three years!

    He must know that, right?

  33. Bannerman
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    let’s be real and say that book 4 and 5 don’t have enough material for 3 episodes, not to mention 3 seasons. And everyone knows that, except GRRM. And that’s the major problem here, his reasoning , of course in addition to the slowness.
    What this man need is more pressure to focus on main thing, not small novels, not Cons, not NFL -but aSoIaF. So David & Dan/ HBO please make him tighter contract.

  34. Shannon
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    I think 8 seasons would have been ideal. David and Dan made a huge mistake in splitting book 3 up – season four is going to be phenomenal but season 3 (minus the RW of course) was honestly irrelevant, bland filler. If they hadn’t done that they wouldn’t be putting ADWD storylines into S4 in an attempt to cram everything into seven seasons.

    However, GRRM is spewing utter nonsense. A prequel season sounds just awful. Worst idea I’ve ever heard and I don’t think the fans nor HBO will buy it. The show has rushed itself in an attempt to cram things into the magic number 7 and will therefore inevitably catch up with his torturously slow-paced writing and either take a year hiatus or create their own ending – either one would be a travesty.

    Ideally, SOS would’ve been one season, the first halves of FFC/DWD season four, the second halves season five, and the last two their own seasons (which would put GRRM even more behind) OR D&D could just suck it up and make eight seasons, which at this point they HAVE to.

    Absolutely nothing at all happens in AFFC but I’m not sure why people are saying the same of ADWD… sure, SOS had the most plot twists but there is a LOT of really incredible new material happening with Jon, Tyrion, Arya, and Bran. (The main characters, after all). A bit with Dany, too, though I don’t think she’s done much of anything for the entire series. She’s predictable background noise. In any case, shoving this book into half a season is really a shame. It deserves a whole season (run as half and half with FFC).

    Point being… everyone done goofed. Hope the franchise doesn’t suffer for it but it sure looks like it will.

  35. Shannon
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    Bannerman,

    What! ADWD has more material than ACOK and AFFC combined. Every chapter is of episode nine quality. I guess show-watchers might not think so, though, as HBO has placed so much unneeded and illogical focus on Cersei, Jaime, King’s Landing, and Dany.

  36. Jim_BO
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    If you have 7-8 seasons as a goal….

    Giving AFFC/DWD more than 1 season all together out of those 7 is a waste of space.

    DWD becomes intresting only at the very end of the book and NOTHING is resolved.
    AFFC isnt even worth mentioning.

  37. Shannon
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    I’ve never really been annoyed with GRRM before as it was always just an issue of “I want to read the book sooner,” but I don’t think he realizes that he is destroying his own franchise by taking years and years in between these books. Sure, they’re long, complicated, and better than anything else out there, but I don’t see why two or three years can’t be enough when books of similar scale have been done in one.

  38. zerowolf
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    Many of the comments on here express a fear that the TV series will somehow ‘spoil’ the books. I think that we should perhaps take the reverse view.
    The first three books were gripping ,page turning stuff. The last two were somewhat of a curate’s egg – some spicy moments lost amidst laborious ramblings.
    I think that D&D’s more focussed approach will enhance the series rather than detract from it.
    The benchmark for a satisfactory ending to a series has been set by Breaking Bad.This is surely what the producers should aim for. We will all want more but it is possible to have too much of a good thing. I’ll take the Pepsi Challenge that if the series finishes before the books what little interest GRRM has left in his saga will dry up completely and that will be the end of it.
    JK Rowling was passionate about Harry Potter right until the end. Ditto Tolkein and several others. That’s why they finished their respective tales. I don’t detect this from GRRM. He’s lost the plot in more ways than one.
    Luckily for us book readers the show came along and we will finally find out how things turn out in the end – not with the same detail of course – but an end nonetheless.
    Praise be.

  39. Greg
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    I hope he never finishes the books and the show gets cancelled

  40. Shannon
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    zerowolf,

    This breaks my heart with its extreme probability. If GRRM doesn’t show interest in his work, neither will anyone else. So sad but looks to be like this will happen

  41. Tori Targaryen
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    Greg,

    Let me guess, you were in Rome, weren’t you? :p

    Sounds like GRRM thinks the show is going to be 2-3 seasons longer than D&D have planned…. Feel sorry for the guy, must suck to have all of us tapping our fingers. Must sound like thunder where he’s sitting lol

  42. Laszlo
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    Shannon,

    That’s some funny shit. Seriously, pretty much only the Northern stuff is worth anything in ADWD, the rest is not that good. And the King’s Landing focus so far makes quite a lot of sense, that’s where there’s the biggest concentration of interesting people.

  43. Easteros bunny
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    He thinks they can get three more seasons out of affc and dwd…bloody hell…

    I’m sorry for being harsh,but I’m loosing my patience with the series. Every interview with him is the same when it comes to “where he is at with the books” board stokes …board strokes…the train is coming and he is laying out the tracks..

    If winds comes out within a reasonable time, I will eat my hat!

  44. Jim_BO
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    zerowolf,

    In David and Dan we trust!

    We are all David and Dan´s!

    Together, with David and Dan we stand!

    Down with GRRM and his show sabotaging, David and Dan are our men!

    Follow David and Dan into the light!

  45. Lollius Palicanus
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    I’ve always defended George on this, but I think he’s living in denial. Too bad, because I really believe he can do it.

  46. Shannon
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    Myk:
    He knows what he’s doing. I think he’ll drop Winds on us all out of nowhere and sooner than anyone would think.

    It sounds like he’s pretty convinced he’s got another three years to publish.

  47. H. Stark
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    Feast/Dance are one big book with one story arc for each character, that means one season-season and a half.
    Making 2 seasons will mean having character not appearing for 3 episodes to have all the arcs moving forward at the same time. I´m not sure about that.

    PS: Sorry for my poor english.

  48. sjwenings
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    As others have mentioned, i suppose this might very well be George knowing he’ll never finish before D&D, but pretending he is unaware, to keep some pressure/critizism off.

    It doesn’t make any sense, and you’d think/assume that he’d want to know how much time he has left, it that even matters to him – which I suppose it really dosn’t, as he’s probably still working just as slowly as he did with the previous two.

    A prequel season with The princess and the Queen. I mean f*cking lol!

  49. Shannon
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    Laszlo,

    These people won’t have anything to do with the final arc of the story. Lol. End is Jon Dany Bran Arya and Tyrion. If you haven’t noticed, everyone in KL is either dead or rotting in a cell.

  50. Laszlo
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    Shannon,

    Now why is that? Because “Ice and Fire” and prophecies and all the other shit? I’m sorry, but that’s just a wrong way of looking at the series. It’s still primarily about people and politics and whatever, no chosen one shit will make that go away.

  51. JamesL
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    “So there’s potentially three more seasons there, between Feast and Dance”

    LMAO Yea three awful seasons of nothing happening which would cause everyone to stop watching and the show to be cancelled. They may be big books but they are not plot heavy. If D&D want season 5 to be good they need to edit and cover virtually all of AFFC/ADWD. If they don’t include the climatic events at the end of those books in season 5 then the whole season will be an uneventful dud.

  52. Onion Knight
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    Absolute delusion. He compares the length of ASOS to AFFC/ADWD but doesn’t seem to realize that they are only comparable in length and not story material. Those last two books were bloated with filler that is going to get severely edited down. D&D will already be into AFFC/ADWD material this season for Jaime/Brienne, Bran, Daenerys, Theon, Stannis in a way as it looks like he might make the deal with the Iron Bank earlier on, and maybe others. What will those characters be doing three seasons from now if they are still on AFFC/ADWD? Its not even possible.

    With those head-starts and the editing it down, they will probably finish most of AFFC/ADWD in Season 5 and mop up anything leftover early in Season 6. Which makes sense when D&D are saying in the same interviews that the whole series is going to be 7-8 seasons long. If AFFC/ADWD was turned into three seasons, they would be into the 7th season already when they finish it. Does he think they are going to shove TWOW and ADOS into one and a half seasons? Like, do you not talk to them, George? The interview on the page next to yours has them directly contradicting this!!!

  53. Sword of the Morning
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    Season 5 predictions, episode-by-episode:


    1: Intro to Dorne. Beginning of Kingsmoot. Arya and Tyrion land across the Narrow Sea. Meereen killings become untenable. Awkwardness on the Wall.
    2: End of Kingsmoot. Arya begins her training. Tyrion starts down the river, meets Connington. Cersei as Queen Regent asserts herself. Samwell and Gilly set sail for Oldtown.
    3: Dany is convinced to marry Hizhdar. Arianne tries to steal Myrcella. Victarion and Euron take the Shield Islands. Davos dispatched to Manderly.
    4: Victarion sets off for Dany. Jaime goes to deal with the Tullys. Tyrion has a creepy encounter on the river. Dany’s marriage to Hizhdar. Davos meets Manderly.
    5: Arianne is imprisoned. Intro to Quentyn. Samwell runs into Arya in Braavos. Alayne and Littlefinger leave the Vale. Brienne encounters the Gravedigger.
    6: Cersei is imprisoned. Arya gives the gift to Dareon. Jon takes in the Wildlings. Stannis sets off to take Winterfell as Manderly arrives there.
    7: Tyrion runs into Jorah. Arya goes blind. Samwell and Gilly bump uglies. Jon sends Mance on a mission. Cersei pleads with the High Sparrow.
    8: Tyrion and Jorah set sail for Meereen. Killings at Winterfell as winter hits. Killings in the Riverlands by the Brotherhood. Plague hits outside of Meereen.
    9: Tyrion arrives in Meereen. Connington arrives in Westeros. Cersei’s walk of shame. Victarion sacrifices virgins at sea. Brienne gets taken by the Brotherhood. Dany flies out of the fighting pit on Drogon.
    10: Barristan tries to hold on to power for Dany. Quentyn gets burned. Sam and Gilly arrive in Oldtown. Brienne finds Jaime in the Riverlands. “Arya” smuggled out of Winterfell. Arya regains her sight. Jon gets stabbed. Winter comes for Kevan Lannister.

    No clue what happens to Bran.

  54. Jim_BO
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    Seven save us GRRM and D&D are feuding. You can read it between the lines….

    Don´t matter HBO sent us David and Dan to deliver us to salvation and give us the show ending!

  55. Maxwell James
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    “What we’ve got here is a failure to communicate.”

  56. GG
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    It’s official. GRRM’s lost his mind. He’ll be lucky to get 2 seasons out of FfC/DwD. A lot of Theon & Bran’s material is already in s4 as it is.

  57. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    Shannon,

    And you know this, how? There would be no show without King’s Landing/The Lannisters. The best, most interesting characters in the series are the Lannisters, and it just so happens that the best actors are playing them.

    I have to strongly disagree with your assertion that nothing happened in S3 other than the RW and that they should have shoved the best book in the series into one season, while giving the two worst books the same amount of screen time. I am wondering if you are trolling with your comment that “every chapter in ADWD is episode 9 material.” ASOS featured the best storylines for Jaime,Dany,Jon,Sansa, and arguably Tyrion. Those are 4 of the 5 or 6 most popular characters in the story.

  58. Shannon
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    Laszlo,

    If this were a story about every day people and politics and not “ice and fire and prophecies and shit” too, nobody would read or watch. I understand that literature professors only value works that have no fictional value but are rather un-creative accounts of every day people and things, but the point of fiction is for it to be fictious. To escape into an incredible story, not to learn about politics and people.

    While I’m definitely not trying to say that there are no politics in asoiaf or that people can’t make their own little allegories about our mundane, stupid political world out of it, I do firmly believe that these things are not the purpose of this magnificent story.

    I’m not sure where this debate even got started but I think we should both direct this frustration towards GRRM, the man who’s ruining whatever kind of story this may be with his utter lack of interest in it.

  59. Shannon
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    You think that the best, most interesting characters are the Lannisters and I strongly disagree. All opinion lol

  60. Robbwind resurrected
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    Yes! Yes! Yes! Three seasons of Jon counting inventory in the Wall. Three seasons of Dany fingering herself in Merreen. Three seasons brienne hanging out on some stupid peninsular. Three seasons of King’ s Landing shit with the faith. It is funny that all of Bran’s Dance of Dragons storyline will be over next season. Dance is a very big book. And I personally love it. But there is no forward movement because George had to move some plot lines faster and some slower in order to solve the Merrennese Knot. I love Dance but D&D would be lucky to get one season out of it and Feast.

  61. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Shannon,

    That’s fine. The majority of the fandom agrees with me.

  62. Jim_BO
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    American Tolkien … i think not.

    GRRM will be rememberd as the slowest writing commercially successful book writer in history to the point he risked his legacy purely out of lazyness and side-projects.

    I think “pulling a GRRM” will make it to TV-Movie history as an example of trouble of some sort like sabotage.
    In sense of the saying “to be successful dont work with children, animals and GRRM kind of writers”

  63. Hodor Targaryen
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    I would hate it if they took FeastDance and split it to take up both seasons 5 and 6, especially given how quickly several characters are getting to their post-SOS material (Bran, Arya, Dany).

    Glad that D&D won’t, and that GRRM’s plan is delusional.

    I understand fan sadness over the chopping of good storylines from the books. But we are now getting to the “unfilmable” part of the books, too many characters and too many plots for even a television show to juggle.

  64. Alex Greyjoy
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    Mark my words, the “episode 9 big event” of season 5 will be either battle of Meeren or battle of Winterfell, which are parts of TWOW. Season 5 scripts are being written now (or are already written), which means the train has passed and the only chance to read it first in book form is for TWOW to appear before the premiere of season 5.

    If GRRM doesn’t want the show to overcome him and if the show will run for 7 seasons, he has about half a year to finish TWOW and another year after that for ADOS. I think the chances of aliens landing near my house are bigger than that happening.

  65. Laszlo
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    Shannon,

    Maybe, but the opposite is true as well. Nobody would notice the series without the politics and “grittiness”, and if GRRM isn’t a complete hack, he won’t forget that. But really, it’s not even about what makes it popular, the fact is, he made the setting work in one way, and that’s not “the chosen ones will come and fix everything”, there will be quite a few pieces for the politician types to pick up.

  66. Jim_BO
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    Hodor Targaryen,

    Amen brother! Like 99% of the TV show watchers dont know who Rhaegar is and we know what he means to the overall story yet GRRM somehow thinks TV watchers should be mind bombarded with the likes of the Kingsmoot, Briannes travels and the Dorne side storylines…..

  67. Incest & Wargin'
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    I won’t even mention the ingratitude, but to some of you guys, for real now, are you serious ? You really think you have more insight than GRRM on D&D’s work ? That he doesn’t know what he’s talking about ? Come on. Just chill, and enjoy the ride.

  68. Shannon
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    Laszlo,
    Oh, absolutely – the idea that the series might end with a “Jon and Dany swoop in and save the day” ending is as absurd as the two of them dying and Cersei Lannister taking over the realm. I think I misinterpreted your argument, believing that you meant that these characters aren’t important or don’t deserve equal screen time, but I think you were trying to say that what sets GOT apart is that it’s not a happy, chosen-one ending and that “evil” characters such as the Lannisters aren’t stereotypical villains, with which I agree completely.

  69. Rygar
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Its seven. Not eight or nine. Seven. This show will be over in the Spring of 2017.

  70. Alex Greyjoy
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    Incest & Wargin’,

    Let’s see. D&D said the show will probably run for 7 season. GRRM still talks about 3 seasons for AFFC/ADWD when we’ll have fourth season premiere in about 3 weeks, and according to all we know about this season, parts of AFFC/ADWD will be in it. Probably whole storylines for some characters (Bran, Brienne) will be in S4. The math doesn’t work, so it’s either D&D are lowering expectations or GRRM doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

  71. Dan
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    Incest & Wargin’,

    Hes talking about making AFFC/DWD into three seasons!

    And thats like a couple of weeks after the meeting with the TV producers where they told him for the like 50th time there will only be 7 seasons and they need to know how it all unfolds.

    He`s blackmailing David and Dan into submition. But if they give in the show ill get droped for low numbers becouse noone wants to watch food counting, turtle counting, tree counting and so on for more than 1 season.

  72. Satin
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    Shannon: If this were a story about every day people and politics and not “ice and fire and prophecies and shit” too, nobody would read or watch.

    I disagree. “Ice and Fire and prophecies and shit” novels are a dime a dozen, and so are books with white-haired heroines who are good and pure and ride dragons, tiny tomboys who become assassins and still keep their plucky personality, and a guy with a cool name who is the secret prince and gets to save the world, while the oft-maligned, yet witty outsider is finally recognized for all the things he has done for the land and rewarded accordingly.

    What keeps ASOIAF apart from these stories, other than lengthy descriptions of banners and feasts and awkwardly written sex scenes, is the fact that the world described follows rather more realistic rules, and even the most conventionally heroic of characters have to obey them.

  73. Matt
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    Does George not realize that we’re already getting into a good amount of the FFC/DWD material this season? Whether it Bran, Dany, Theon, even Cersei (Natalie Dormer confirmed that the war between the two of them starts to erupt)

  74. The Spider
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Winds of Winter HAS to come out late next year to prevent an early catch up. Then he would have to do what he has not done in years which is write a book in a reasonable time of two years to publish Dream right before the final season of the show I would say theres a 80% chance at least that the show will end before the books

  75. zod
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Robbwind resurrected: Three seasons of Dany fingering herself in Merreen.

    Well.. if you put it that way, it doesn’t sound like a bad idea anymore.

  76. Hounded
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    So this is George’s “plan” ??

    As plans go this one is similar to Arianne’s plan to crown Myrcella. If I continue this metaphor then D&D = Areo Hotah’s axe.

    FFC and DWD are both big books yes, but not nearly as much actually HAPPENS in them compared to the first 3. I personally really like and think they deal with some interesting issues but much of them is internal character stuff. There’s a lot of thinking but not much doing. There are great moments, especially towards the end of Dance but there is ALOT of stuff that can be cut. I personally don’t care for the Iron Islands stuff (but I know alot of people do). I hope the Dorne stuff stays but stuff like Nimble Dick, alot of Cersei’s stuff, alot of Jon’s stuff and bit of Tyrion’s stuff can be cut. They can do pretty much all of FFC and DWD in season 5.

  77. Lord Davos
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

    Shannon,

    Well, you are no worse than Grrm when it comes to your notions about fiction.
    Your notions about what people watch are funny too.

  78. Laszlo
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    Shannon,

    You the one who said others outside the ones you mentioned “won’t have anything to do with the final arc of the story”, I don’t see how I’m the one dismissing characters as not important or deserving. But whatever, let’s not get stuck on this shit, the point is, they better all end up important, otherwise why did we spend all this time with them.

  79. Hounded
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    Shannon,

    Oh the Lannisters are definitely the most interesting characters. No two ways about it.

  80. Crabber's Son
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    Why do people keep saying things like Victarion is going to be cut, quentyn will be cut, or no arianne no doran. so far the only characters that have been cut have been far removed side characters not characters who fill up chapters. Belwas is not the equivalent of victarion.

    As far as AFFC and ADWD i think it should be split into two seasons with the battle of mereen possibly at the end of the second one. You could end season 5 with tyrion getting captured by jorah, aegon deciding to go to westeros, arya being blind, etc.
    I dont think this season is going to go into affc and adwd as much as people think. Brienne might simply leave to search for sansa in episode 4 or 5 and then in episode 8 have her fight but then the scenes with tarly and LS can be next season. Taking over 2,500 pages and putting them into only 1 season seems insulting to GRRM, three is too much though. Next season can spend a lot of time introducing dorne and the greyjoy brothers, aegon, and showing cersei’s blunders, and having interactions with stannis and jon which should be great.

    I think the 7 seasons thing is simply to be safe, especially with hbo cancelling boardwalk empire, true blood, and other great shows in the past like deadwood and rome.

    I think 8 seasons would be ideal and 9 is possible if people keep watching,

  81. Harry Lime
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    Man, does he talk to D&D at all? This sounds like the sort of stuff we used to say before they announced their preference for 7 seasons. If he’s banking on this level of stalling from D&D, then this article basically confirms our worst fears that he won’t finish on time.

  82. Sister Wrister
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    Redking:
    Benioff and Weiss are also a bit delusional to think seven seasons might still be possible.

    Eight seasons seems the minimum to not rush the story into an incomprehensible mess.

    This. And isn’t everybody growing a bit tired of bitching and moaning about such speculative nonsense? You are all taking the easy road. Fuck anybody calling grrm delusional, as many of you have. The only thing delusional is all you completely out of the loop claiming to know how this will all pan out. Personally I wouldn’t mind more time for Dorne, the north, the greyjous, Arya, and yes, meereen. You are all assuming much of this will be cut to make things neat and simple for the show crowd, but I would rather give the audience the benefit of the doubt, and submit that the interest and production will both remain high. This is a dialog heavy fantasy piece that doesn’t need to succumb to flash and can remain focused on the drama. People will not get bored and we will hopefully get more of what we all love.
    Peace, bitches!

  83. Laszlo
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    Crabber’s Son,

    I don’t think they need to cut whole storylines, but they can do them a lot quicker than in the books. A whole bunch of it is planning, journeys with lots of distractions, stuff like that, they could probably distill those to only the important moments plus some character establishing stuff.

  84. Summer is Coming
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    1. There seems to be a lack of communication between D&D and GRRM. Just the other day there was that article with the 7 seasons. Which seems weird since GRRM discussed the outcome of the story with D&D.

    2. This might be GRRM propaganda to push for more time. 3 seasons for affc/adwd is too much, and that comes from a guy who wants 8 seasons; 9 if the last two books are asos material. I think 2 seasons is more than enough to incorporate the story from the two books and add some twow stuff. Seasons 5 and 6 are affc/adwd and I will fight for them in arguments if I have too.

    3. It really bothers me reading the comments to see how mean people react. Offer arguments not insults for your cause. Plus the fact that so many say “cut that” or “that must be cut”.. cuts are to be made from unnecessary filler (ex: like Brienne has in affc)… but to say cut whole plots (Dorne, Iron Islands) without people knowing their outcome is just RiDDIKULUS! It’s comforting for me to know that D&D know those outcomes and they will know how to handle things.

  85. Ozymandias
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    He’s joking right ? LMAO

  86. Vincentious
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    Redking,

    Yeah, I’d agree this 7 season idea is delusional, and probably more so than what George suggested.
    I mean, book 3 is massive = 2 seasons.
    Book 4 = v large & 5 = massive = 2 seasons minimum (removes some extraneous plot & characters).
    Book 6 = massive = 2 seasons.
    Book 7 = massive = 2 seasons.

    Books 1 & 2 = massive between them = 2 seasons

    Break it down to the max. number of seasons based on book size, based on what’s happened so far. How many is that then? I count 10 seasons needed. Books 6 & 7 promise to be event heavy like book 3 is. If they’re not, then maybe 9 seasons. That’s still more than 7 seasons… that’s 20 more hours of TV not for the sake of it because they can, but required to cover the whole story..!

  87. WompWomp
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    So his plan to keep up with the show is… for the show to keep up with him? That’s pretty passive for a back-up plan.

    He’s also expressed the idea of AFFC/ADWD being multi-season material before. I wonder if he truly believes they are. It looks like a good number of folks recognize those books lack the sufficient dramatic beats to round out more than a single satisfying season of television.

  88. SergioCQH
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    I suspect that the prognostications proffered thus far from D&D and HBO may be intended to have the effect of increasing interest in GoT in both the viewing public and people who vote on awards.

    If people think that this show will keep going for years, they might hold off on getting into watching it or voting for it, thinking that they will have many more chances down the road.

    So D&D and HBO may not be all that keen on sticking to seven seasons, but they will throw those predictions out to keep interest keen.

  89. Rygar
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    Redking:
    Benioff and Weiss are also a bit delusional to think seven seasons might still be possible.

    Eight seasons seems the minimum to not rush the story into an incomprehensible mess.

    Right because the books aren’t already spiraling out of control with all the plot developments. Next GRRM will introduce himeslf as a character like King did.

  90. Talisa's ghost
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    The sheer contradiction between this quote and D&D’s plans makes me think this is merely a marketing ploy. The unsullied are already excited after watching the trailers, but book readers already know what happens. So how do you keep the wavery ones interested and talking about it? By providing them contradictory information that will make them wonder and argue about whether the show will catch up or not, thus compelling them in a way to watch the show to see if it does or doesn’t. Quite clever really.

  91. Stannis
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    Well… Maybe we never would’ve seen the end at all if the show hadn’t got made.

  92. GeekFurious
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    Redking:
    Benioff and Weiss are also a bit delusional to think seven seasons might still be possible.

    Eight seasons seems the minimum to not rush the story into an incomprehensible mess.

    Agreed. It will be 9 seasons.

  93. jkb
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

    Sister Wrister,

    i’m gonna second this.

    and stop with the venom people, geez.

  94. wizardeyes
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    He already has. Wyman Manderly.

  95. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    wizardeyes,

    And this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAk1zbW7JiA

    Which is exactly why he should stick to writing, lol. My-rish lenses indeed :)

  96. Jerry Glonek
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    Sorry if this was mentioned, but there were interviews recently with D&D stating that when the series started they got the broad strokes for where each character was going, and that they recently sat him down to get more detailed information for each character. So they know where to drive the series to get to the same ending GRRM is planning (unless he changes it). They might just get there faster. And book readers will want to read the books (if they ever come out) because there will be deviations along the way.

    The TV show is fine, and we will get the proper ending we want. We just might learn it on TV before we learn it in the books.

  97. Bard
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    He’ll be in a world of shit pretty soon. I bet he’ll blame HBO and D&D.

  98. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

    GeekFurious,

    D&D have said 7 or 8 seasons for years now and have a desire to complete it in 7, even after meeting with George before writing the scripts for season 3. It’s okay to want 9 seasons, I personally think 80 episodes would suffice, but it is very unlikely at this point.

  99. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    Three seasons!! It is to laugh.

    It all belongs largely arrayed through a total of two seasons — some of it in the latter part of Season 4, most of it in Season 5, some of it in the early part of Season 6.

    Season 5, if they condense the books well and focus on the real big moments, should end with the following:

    Jon stabby-stab
    Cersei walk of shame
    Danzak’s Pit
    Lady Stoneheart reveal to Brienne (or Jaime)

    Plenty of interesting stories there to make for a solid, well-rounded season 5 with great political intrigue (Cersei/Margie) and a few other things.

  100. Lord Davos
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    Greatest troll ever Martin, i bow to you. What a guy.
    Every time they ask when the show ends, he kill a rumour.

  101. Vincentious
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    I’ve noticed how harsh and rude a lot of the comments are towards George. I mean, is it really necessary? Like, show a little respect guys come on. Sometimes a bit of restraint can go a long way and all..

  102. Rene
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    Don’t think the show will do the (further) iron lands storyline nor the sand snakes. I think if they get another new storyline the public can ‘t cope with that. TV viewers are different from readers.

  103. Marc
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    I think the show will end up being 8 seasons.

    The 8th season will be split between two years (7 or 8 episodes each).

    So…

    2014 – Season 4 (ASOS/AFFC/ADWD)
    2015 – Season 5 (AFFC/ADWD/TWOW)
    2016 – Season 6 (ADWD/TWOW)
    2017 – Season 7 (TWOW/ADOS)
    2018 – Season 8 Part 1 (ADOS)
    2019 – Season 8 Part 2 (ADOS)

    Something along the lines of this would be Martin’s only realistic shot of publishing the final book before the final season airs.

    This is banking on the fact that TWOW and ADOS will have a lot of ground for the show to cover. If TWOW and ADOS can only be done in 1 season each (as opposed to 1.5 seasons each), then the show will end up being 7 seasons, and I still think they would end up dividing the last season into two – meaning they would finish in 2018.

  104. sjwenings
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    GeekFurious: Agreed. It will be 9 seasons.

    I guess you’re assuming they’ll keep staying as true to the books as they have so far, and not just make up more stuff on their own to fill out the blanks of the overview George has provided them with. When they say 7 seasons – 8 at the most, it’s probably simply because they truly believe – and with good reason – this will be true. Noone has ever said they HAVE to translate the books as they have so far forever. Which I believe we’ll see already in season 5 (partially 4)

  105. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    Oh, George!

    I’ve got to co-sign the people who say he’s got some delusions. I like AFFC?ADWD more than a lot of people, but they will not make good TV without some editing. Not whole plot lines or anything, but the travelogue stuff and the tertiary characters. There’s no way there’s 3 seasons of material. With all the AFFC?ADWD material that seems to be creeping into this season, they’ll be almost done with season 5.

    If GGRM wants to take his time and let the show overtake him, that’s his prerogative, but HBO is not going to put their biggest show on hiatus. Especially with TB and Boardwalk ending this year.

    Either George is delusional or he’s playing us all and the manuscript for TWOW is close to complete. The later would be lovely, but I’m not counting on it.

  106. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    LOL For someone who writes such a sad series, he is amusingly hopeful. Based on what he says here, there are two possibilities:

    1)Winds of Winter is very long (not in the way DwD was long. Stuff might actually happen) AND coming out soon if he thinks it would keep them occupied enough for him to have time to release the 7th book.
    2) He is in denial and some part of him knows they will definitely pass him, probably next season.

    I’m inclined to believe the second one. The only way he can possibly think he has any chance is if he thinks WoW will be out soon. Let’s say he’s not lying to himself and books 4/5 take three seasons. At the pace they are moving, they would still pass him unless he releases the book soon. Season 4: 2014, Season 5: 2015, Season 6:2016, Season 7: 2017. If he releases the book next year, that gives him about 3-4 years to get the last book written and published. This has to be what he is expecting, or else he is extremely deluded. But then again, if that’s his plan he is hoping for 9 seasons. Something that it’s pretty much been stated is longer than they want….so basically he is fooling himself and its possibility 2.

    From the above rambling, I’ve decided that what’s happening here is that he plans to release the 6th book soon, but is also in denial that they will still pass him.

  107. Lord Davos
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    Sister Wrister,

    Are you right. Grrm is the Tarantino of fantasy.

  108. Mickey2093
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

    He’s the biggest troll there is.
    He’s going to use the scripts as his base material, fill in a bunch of feasts, some sex with little girls (freshly flowered, of course, so that they’re “women”), and a few hundred pages of people crossing the sands of dorne, with appropriate descriptions…
    “They traversed the dune in a north-easterly direction, giving the horses a slightly easier time than proceeding straight over. One quarter of the way up the dune, they spied the bleached skull of what appeared to be a human. They stopped to investigate, and found near the skull the wider, flared hips normally associated with women. ‘This could be Sarella, if she didn’t know how to cross the desert, and if she wasn’t in Oldtown’ said Arianne’. Blah Blah Blah ‘Oh look – there’s a scorpion coming out of the skull! Look out!’ They ran back down the dune, forgetting their horses, and stumbling through the loose sand. Blah Blah Blah”…
    See? how hard was that?
    That’s how he’s going to fill in between the feasts and whatever the script writers come up with…

  109. WompWomp
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    Harry Lime:
    Man, does he talk to D&D at all? This sounds like the sort of stuff we used to say before they announced their preference for 7 seasons. If he’s banking on this level of stalling from D&D, then this article basically confirms our worst fears that he won’t finish on time.

    …Yeah. It totally does. That’s a pickle. AFFC/ADWD really don’t have enough meat on them to satisfy TV audiences individually or as concurrent halves.

  110. Commenter
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    That the show will pass the books is wonderful news.

    “You’re not delaying this anymore, you weiner-loving bitch.”

    Hopefully they can also clean up his sloppy writing in AFFC and ADWD; ie the glamour. Ugh that was the most cringe-worthy moment. I still try not to think about it.

  111. Kevin
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    The reason we are all here is that GRRM is great at fantasy. I guess it just comes with the territory. He’s too close to the source material and that’s why he’s not in charge.

  112. Dogs
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    Vincentious,
    Thing is… Season 4 is NOT STRICTLY the second half of a storm of swords. Can we stop with this false correlation? It’s clear from trailers, and from where stories are at in season 3, elements from AFFC/ADWD are being directly incorporated into Season 4. The main beats of Jon, Arya, Sansa and Tyrion’s stories in the latter half of SoS seem to be the only major storylines that correspond to this. Stannis is going to Braavos to get the support of the Iron Bank, an element that has only happened in the friggin’ Winds of Winter preview chapter; Bran is north of the wall already, putting him in ADWD territory; Brienne is going on her quest in AFFC to find Sansa; Theon is doing some ADWD stuff this year; Danaerys is set already to plunge maybe a quarter of her way into her ADWD material in Meereen.
    As has been mentioned by the producers, the series’ seasons no longer correspond neatly to book divisions. All this speculative freaking out is useless. Can we get over saying that Season 4 is the second half of SoS?

  113. wizardeyes
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    Mickey2093,

    Oooh this seems fun. Let me have a go.

    As the white walkers came Samwell soiled himself. Again and again til his breeches were black as soot. Then he pissed himself. Hot steaming piss trickling from his flapping cock as he ran. A spear took him in the belly and spilled his guts upon the snow, greasy intestines like so many eels. He cried out for his mother and the mother above and as he fell an arrow took him up the arsehole.

  114. Lord Davos
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    Commenter,

    You have funny taste if a glamour is the most cringeworthy in a series of awkward sex, skull-bashing and dark humour.

  115. wizardeyes
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    Commenter,

    Whats wrong with the glamour?

  116. Valaquen
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    AFFC/ADWD will probably be mostly covered by season 5. They’ll start writing season 6 a year from now – if TWOW isn’t released by then, it should certainly be close to completion. I would expect D&D to get full, early access to that for their scripts, and GRRM will probably write an episode too.

    For season 7, well, it remains to be seen if 6 will manage to encompass all of TWOW. GRRM will have 1-2 years headway on ADOS depending on how the show tackles the sixth book. ADOS probably won’t be finished when D&D write the final season, but they could possibly crib some of it from the manuscript. Also, GRRM doesn’t write chronologically, so the final season could be quite faithful to the book, with intermittent differences spread throughout.

  117. Ragman's Harbor
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    Jesus George! You don’t have a lot of time left. We both know you are slow writer and that’s okay. But stop writing other things than TWOW, and write. Everyday, even if you’re slow it’s better than to write 3 days in a week. I still have hope though. I still…ugh.. believe.

  118. Lord Davos
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    wizardeyes,

    Yeah wahts wrong with a little glamour now and then?

  119. Lord Davos
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    Ragman’s Harbor,

    Son of Kong is being caged at the very moment.

  120. NomadicDirewolf
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    definitely think GRRM is being delusional on this one, I mean, I’m pretty certain that D & D wont change there minds about how to structure the next few seasons, season 5 is right around the corner initial work will begin in a month or two, they will probably stick with the one season aFfC and aDwD, and the seven seasons thing.
    Personally I dont care either way about putting those two books in ones season (but preferably it should be a season with more episodes to get through more content) but I am a bit skeptical about a season each for tWoW and aDoS, which look like they will be aSoS and aDwD size at least, with a lot of dramatic events in all probability. Three seasons between them should be the least they should do, four maybe. That would also give GRRM a chance at finishing the books. But as things stand, presuming tWoW is released between seasons 4 and 5, he would only have a year and a half or so to do aDoS, which isnt really going to happen, and if it does the quality will suffer

  121. Sean C.
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    I have to think that Martin is just spinning here to avoid discussing the show passing the books for as along as possible, because I don’t think he could possibly sincerely believe what he’s saying here.

    Though if he does, I’d love to here his thoughts on how Sansa’s three chapters will last three seasons. Or Arya’s five. Or Bran’s…probably one, at most, by the time season four is over. Or pretty much everybody else.

  122. wizardeyes
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos,

    I could go for some glamour right now.

  123. suntil
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    I’m sorry but at this point it’s painfully obvious he’s lying. Who here seriously believes that Benioff, Weiss and HBO tell GRRM less than they reveal in public interviews? From their own public statements, it’s been obvious for years that AFFC/ADWD won’t be adapted over two full seasons, let alone three, so there’s no way GRRM can be so ignorant as to honestly believe that. I guess what it will take for him to stop feigning blissful ignorance is for someone to go to his cinema and show him the direct quote of Benioff saying the plan is for seven seasons total.

  124. Hounded
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    suntil,

    Or if someone put it on the big screen at NFL

  125. Commenter
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    wizardeyes,

    Lord Davos,

    1.) Mance should have been killed
    2.) Why would Mel go through the trouble of burning a fake Mance? She is the one who wants to burn King’s blood, who is she trying to fool?
    3.) It’s corny as shit

  126. Taena
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    I ‘love’ reading people debate whether the show should run to 7 or 8 seasons..

    YOU DON’T KNOW THE ENDING!! – D&D DO!!

    They clearly want to keep the pace of the show up, which lets face it, is just not the case in AFFC and ADWD so they want to get through to whatever good stuff they know about and that’s why they’re saying 7 or 8 seasons.

    CURVEBALL.. Perhaps he is deliberately being nonchalant so that we will all think he is still slow and miles behind and then BAM! he’s gonna release TWOW this year… Now who’s being delusional?! :P

  127. Lord Davos
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    Commenter,

    1. She has to please Stannis.
    2. Get a pair of glasses.
    3. Catch some clues.
    4. Mance doesnt have kingsblood either way.
    His son does hovewer.

  128. King of the Ashes
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    Vincentious:
    I’ve noticed how harsh and rude a lot of the comments are towards George.I mean, is it really necessary?Like, show a little respect guys come on.Sometimes a bit of restraint can go a long way and all..

    my thoughts exactly

  129. King of the Ashes
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    Fans are Fickle

  130. Vincentious
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    Jim_BO,

    Tolkien took 12 years to write ‘The Lord of the Rings’, a book about the same size as just ‘A Storm of Swords’.

    Maybe “American Tolkien” is pretty apt then based on your logic?

  131. Greatness Arrisessss
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    Its seven. Not eight or nine.Seven.This show will be over in the Spring of 2017.

    I’m sure you meant summer, since each season of GoT starts in the spring and ends in the summer. In the case of the 7th season it could end up being extended, so who knows, it might not even end as early as summer of 2017.

  132. Vincentious
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Marc,

    Yeah, I like that more than mine.

  133. Mickey2093
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

    wizardeyes:
    Mickey2093,

    Oooh this seems fun. Let me have a go.

    As the white walkers came Samwell soiled himself. Again and again til his breeches were black as soot. Then he pissed himself. Hot steaming piss trickling from his flapping cock as he ran. A spear took him in the belly and spilled his guts upon the snow, greasy intestines like so many eels. He cried out for his mother and the mother above and as he fell an arrow took him up the arsehole.

    oh, wizardeyes… it does my heart good to see that I’m not the only one that both sees the folly of it all and knows how to advance the cause…
    lol

  134. Clob
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

    Sorry, I didn’t read all the comments.
    My thinking is that this show could go for many more seasons than the pace they’ve set and still be as good and entertaining if they wanted it to and HBO allowed it. I understand sullied viewers are always looking forward to getting to the big events and are impatient. However, think of all of the written material that they’ve skipped including or shortened already. Even if AFfC and ADwD overall aren’t as solid as ASoS there are several pieces and storylines of each that could fill a lot of time and be entertaining if done properly. Also, most viewers aren’t concerned with character ages if things are stretched out. Besides that there are maybe just a couple that are overly noticeable in the forefront; the mostly minor character Tommen and always-lying-down Bran. Maisie turns 17 in a month and Sophie turned 18 last month. They’re essentially done growing.

    A ‘snails pace’ doesn’t have to be boring. Taking a look at ‘s storyline alone in AFfC and ADwD and you’ll see just five chapters total when she had twenty-eight in the first three books. The thing is I could argue that those last five of her published pov chapters are possibly the most interesting and some of the most important in her character development. When I say most interesting of her chapters I could also say they are some of the most interesting off all storylines in the saga in my opinion. If they make her story in the show one of the main parts, which they should, instead of an afterthought and kind of glossed over, which they have tended to do a bit, they could have a lot of material there to shoot, if fleshed out fully. That is just looking at one character with just five chapters in two books. With all seriousness, some of the character storylines could be seasons on their own.

  135. Silver of Wyman
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    The talk of 7 seasons is folly. That’s like making LotR into two movies it’s going to suck.
    I would rather have one or two less interesting seasons of Game of Thrones than poorly adapted D&D bare bones versions of books 6 and 7 in two last seasons, that would spoil the books for me.
    If the Winds of Winter is going to as great as fans have speculated it to be, I don’t see why they couldn’t make it like this:
    Season 5: 75% of aFfC and aDwD
    Season 6: 25% of aFfC and aDwD plus tWoW climaxes
    Season 7: the rest of tWoW (could take two seasons)
    Season 8: aDoS

  136. Ser Tahu
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    Maybe I’m fooling myself, but I do like to think this is some sort of ploy. GRRM is exec on the show and writes an episode each season – there is no way that he could be so wrong about how they plan to adapt the remaining books. So, as others have suggested, perhaps the contradicting interviews from D&D and GRRM were planned to create this division and confusion in the fanbase. In the past, the book readers have known exactly what will be in each season, but if they confuse the readers they will no longer be able to guess what they will see and when. If that is the case then I don’t think 8 (or even 9) seasons are completely off the table yet.

    Alternatively, again as others suggested, this could be GRRM trying to mislead the readers concerning his progress on TWoW. Or perhaps that is also just wishful thinking…

  137. cosca
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    Taena:
    YOU DON’T KNOW THE ENDING!! – D&D DO!!

    This is very important to note. If they’ve seen the ending, and are still fully confident that they’lll finish in 7 seasons, then I don’t know how that can be called delusional by people who haven’t seen the ending.

    It seems like quite a few people in this thread are trying to redirect hate towards D&D for some reason, when GRRM is deserving of all of it.

  138. amplifyme
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

    Here’s a frightening thought: what if GRRM can’t wrap up the story in TWOW & ADOS? What if he requires an 8th book to finish it? Is there anything beyond the state of being well and truly fucked? Because he may be charting new territory before it’s all said and done.

    Oh, GRRM.

  139. Streamweaver
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    I feel a bit insulted by Martin in this article. We already know for a fact GoT is only showing for 7 seasons. So Martin is never finishing the series before the HBO seasons wrap up. I feel like this is just blatant marketing by him to keep folks from losing interest in a show he knows for a fact wont have a satisfactory finish.

  140. Tom
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

    9 seasons, 9 seasons, 9 seasons, 9 seasons, ill say it until it’s true.

  141. Arthur
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    At this point I don’t really care what GRRM has to say about the show catching up or when he will finish the books.

    Apparently he doesn’t seem to worried about it or he’d go to some beautiful remote location and push everything else aside and do some serious writing.

    GRRM doesn’t care, he’d rather promote Wildcards and do a million other things so why should we care.

    I trust D&D took notes and got all the storyline outcomes fully explained in full detail. Didn’t D&D stay with GRRM just for that information for a few weeks anyway?

    So bottom line is, I can’t hate on GRRM, he’s a free man and if he wants to tour the world and do countless other things other than finishing the saga then so be it.

    It’s really on GRRM if he wants to stay ahead, he still has time and if it’s important to him he’ll get busy and finish.

    If not, D&D aren’t slowing down for anyone or anything and are fully dedicated to deliver us this epic saga from beginning to end, be it 7, 8 or long shot possibly 9 seasons. (If ratings and merchandise sales and HBO profit stay like it is, it would only be D&D planning for 7-8 seasons, not HBO).

    Who cares if GRRM finishes, the show will move on and be just fine without the books coming out first.

  142. Commenter
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos,

    What clues did I miss? If you crack an egg of knowledge on me and it makes sense, I won’t get combative. I honestly thought it was absurd and unnecessary. If I’m missing something, help me out brother. I still believe it was a corny device, though.

  143. Bard
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu:
    Maybe I’m fooling myself, but I do like to think this is some sort of ploy. GRRM is exec on the show and writes an episode each season – there is no way that he could be so wrong about how they plan to adapt the remaining books. So, as others have suggested, perhaps the contradicting interviews from D&D and GRRM were planned to create this division and confusion in the fanbase. In the past, the book readers have known exactly what will be in each season, but if they confuse the readers they will no longer be able to guess what they will see and when. If that is the case then I don’t think 8 (or even 9) seasons are completely off the table yet.

    Alternatively, again as others suggested, this could be GRRM trying to mislead the readers concerning his progress on TWoW. Or perhaps that is also just wishful thinking…

    Yes, that sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory driven by wishful thinking and desparation. And D&D, Elio and GRRMs UK publisher are probably playing an assistant role in Georges attempt to surprise us?

  144. Vincentious
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    Dogs,

    Point taken, but I believe we should see how season 4 plays out. It’s possible season 5 could become (AFFC/ADWD/TWOW) and season 6 then (ADWD/TWOW). I recognise that s4 must contain points from AFFC/ADWD and sorry I didn’t make that clear but I believe that’s probably about 20% of this season at the very most. Applying percentages to Marc’s season ideas: Season 4 (ASOS 80% & AFFC/ADWD 20%), Season 5 (AFFC/ADWD 80% & TWOW 20%) & Season 6 (ADWD 80% & TWOW 20%) etc.

    For s4 there will be a lot of ASOS action beats that will take up a lot of time with the main focus belonging to those characters you mentioned as still corresponding with ASOS. This means a lot of King’s Landing, the Wall, Meereen’s liberation and the Arya story.

    The 20% is AFFC/ADWD stuff for Bran, Theon, Stannis and Brienne. I think this stuff will be pretty light to say the least. I think Dany’s ADWD stuff will be s5 almost exclusively.

  145. Tori Targaryen
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    Look on the bright side, in 10 years all the books will be released…. Probably lol

  146. Alex Greyjoy
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    Vincentious,

    Tolkien had a job, he was linguistics professor, and writing was his hobby.

  147. cosca
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    Tori Targaryen,

    Make that in 30 years. I can see it now, A Dream of Spring, by Brandon Sanderson.

    Oh wait, GRRM doesn’t want any other writer to finish ASOIAF if he dies. Make that never.

  148. Bard
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    Streamweaver:
    I feel a bit insulted by Martin in this article.We already know for a fact GoT is only showing for 7 seasons.So Martin is never finishing the series before the HBO seasons wrap up.I feel like this is just blatant marketing by him to keep folks from losing interest in a show he knows for a fact wont have a satisfactory finish.

    The show will. I’m not sure about the books.

  149. Daniel
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

    Myk,

    I admire your optimism ser.

  150. Mickey2093
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    cosca:
    Tori Targaryen,

    Make that in 30 years. I can see it now, A Dream of Spring, by Brandon Sanderson.

    Oh wait, GRRM doesn’t want any other writer to finish ASOIAF if he dies. Make that never.

    He has no kids, so once both he and his wife are gone, then it’ll likely be the publishers decision, and they’ll have someone finish it…

    unfortunately, I probably won’t live to see that, but at least I’ll know what happens and how it all ends.

    Thank you HBO…!!!

  151. Pepi
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Stage 1: denial

  152. Brightroars_Bane
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Mickey2093: He has no kids, so once both he and his wife are gone, then it’ll likely be the publishers decision, and they’ll have someone finish it…

    Successful writers have literary executioners, who manage the writer’s estate after their death and retain power over the IP until it’s released into public domain. In that case, unauthorized sequels cannot be published until the copyright expires.

    Tolkien’s works are still copyrighted.

  153. Greenjones
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    Over on AFOIAF today Elio offered his professional opinion that TWOW won’t come out this year. He knows for a fact that GrrM hasn’t finished the book yet. So there’s that…

    I think its likely that we’ll get TWOW before the majority of that book’s material airs on tv. The real problem is ADOS.

  154. Alan
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    For people seemingly obsessive enough about a story to continually post on the internet about it, you all are super derisive of all the people who have been instrumental in creating it.

    It’s fairly pathetic.

  155. adense
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    Mickey2093:
    He’s the biggest troll there is.
    He’s going to use the scripts as his base material, fill in a bunch of feasts, some sex with little girls (freshly flowered, of course, so that they’re “women”), and a few hundred pages of people crossing the sands of dorne, with appropriate descriptions…
    “They traversed the dune in a north-easterly direction, giving the horses a slightly easier time than proceeding straight over.One quarter of the way up the dune, they spied the bleached skull of what appeared to be a human.They stopped to investigate, and found near the skull the wider, flared hips normally associated with women.‘This could be Sarella, if she didn’t know how to cross the desert, and if she wasn’t in Oldtown’ said Arianne’.Blah Blah Blah ‘Oh look – there’s a scorpion coming out of the skull!Look out!’ They ran back down the dune, forgetting their horses, and stumbling through the loose sand. Blah Blah Blah”…
    See?how hard was that?
    That’s how he’s going to fill in between the feasts and whatever the script writers come up with…

    I almost died laughing!!

  156. arglaro
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    Who gives a fluck? Put the show on hold if they catch up. Show people can experience some goddamn waiting for a change. “oooh, ten months between seasons boo hoo hoo!”

  157. The North Remembers
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

    Incest & Wargin’,

    This is exactly what I was going to say. Everyone is like “I love GoT/ASoIaF so much!” while at the same time being like “I don’t trust the amazing people who created both of these things!” That’s insane. We have years and years of great entertainment ahead of us. Everyone please calm down and stop throwing cow pies at Joff-ahem, George.

  158. Greenjones
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

    Commenter,

    For adaptation’s sake they’ll probably just keep Mance alive. They already play down certain magical elements already. But then S5 will have Faceless Men’s glamours, so who knows.

  159. Tori Targaryen
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    arglaro,

    I can’t see them taking a break, show wise…. The kids are already much older than they are in the books. Will be damn awkward to have Hodor carrying around a 20-something year old Bran on his back.

    The show will continue ahead as planned. There’s no way HBO would have agreed to a deal that would mean taking a pause and potentially losing viewers if and when the show would come back.

  160. Cumsprite
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    arglaro:
    Who gives a fluck? Put the show on hold if they catch up. Show people can experience some goddamn waiting for a change. “oooh, ten months between seasons boo hoo hoo!”

    Let it go. It’s over. It’s OK. Shhhhhhh. No more tears.

  161. NathanG
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    I wonder how much D&D actually know. Or even GRRM at this point. What happens if George just refuses to give enough info to D&D (assuming they don’t already know enough to complete the series.) Or, since George has said that he considers the show and books to be different canon, changes the books dramatically after the show is completed (if it does overtake the books).

  162. TheSphinx
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

    King Tommen,

    There is a basic problem here. Season 4 will cover the two battles at the Wall, the Purple Wedding, Tyrion’s trial and the Red Viper. What is left for season 5? Maybe for season 6?

    There are no battles in books 4 and 5. The battle at Meeren has been potstponed, as has the battle inthe North. Can they fill one or two easons with Cersei’s humiliation, Danaerys governing Meeren and fatso’s trip to Oldtown. Maybe well get Victorian and Aysa in Braavos; both would be fun but may not build the audience.

    Meanwhile, have they axed Areo Hothar? And Alayne and Oakheart? Please tell me no.

  163. Lex
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    Wtf? This just doesn’t add up. Something is fishy.

    GRRM was saying this exact thing, about AFFC/ADWD being 2-3 seasons, several years ago. How could he possibly be spouting the same stuff, after the recent news about D&D and HBO wanting 7 seasons??

    Either this interview is actually really old, or was done right before the news about 7 seasons came out… or GRRM and D&D have a massive communication problem… or GRRM is totally delusional. And every one of these possibilities is bad news.

    Anyways, I’ve been reading the series since 2000, and I am sticking with my long-running prediction. TWOW in 2016. ADOS, who knows, possibly never. :(

  164. Roosebolton
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    Dear HBO,

    Stay strong, stay focused, don’t listen to the old crazy man reading the NY Jets draft reports. You have a great TV show here, with great writers (excluding GRRM), great cast, and great crew. Trust them to give you three, ok maybe four more, awesome seasons and end this wonderful story. DON’T worry about the books, don’t worry about the hard-core book nerd fans (and I used to be one) complaining about whats canon and what isn’t. Just worry about the TV show.

    Regardless of when (if) these books are ever finish, the fans will pay for HBO, watch the show religiously, and buy the DVDs. Good luck.

  165. reza
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

    Then the only way to not have the show pass him is if they take one year off! Im not sure how the fans would react to that? 10 episodes every other year! They would lose some of the actors too probably!

  166. Vincentious
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

    Alex Greyjoy,
    I’m sorry but you’re defending someone who took 12 years or so to write one book on the basis that he was a hobbyist and not really a ‘writer’? On that basis, maybe GRRM is glad he isn’t thought of as an American Tolkien by some. Either way, he still sure isn’t slower than Tolkien at any rate. I believe that was the point I was making. Tolkien’s a stupid example to use in making any argument of slowness when levelled at any ‘writer’ let alone GRRM.

  167. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

    That awkward moment when D&D send GRRM the outline for his season 5 episode. The scripts should be written by the time Season 4 airs.

    And really, this is very disappointing from GRRM. It’s like he has no clue about D&Ds plans and no appreciation of the awful pacing of his more recent work .

  168. Hounded
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    I’m caught between defending George (because come on – this whole universe that we all love so much did come from his imagination) and getting pretty fed up and feeling like he needs a kick up the arse. It’s like he’s not even trying anymore. I realize he has other things in his life and deserves a private life but why does he have to do all these side-projects? The princess and the frog or whatever the fuck it was called. The world of ice and fire. This new thing for Rogues. Wild Cards stuff. Signing tours and conventions. When most writers are writing they lock themselves away and crack on. George seems to write whenever he gets a spare minute in his schedule. A writer should clear his schedule to write!

  169. Alex Greyjoy
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    Vincentious,

    I’m not defending Tolkien, because Tolkien needs no defending, certainly not from me. His legacy is in his works and his long and fruitful academic career.
    The writing paces of Tolkien and Martin cannot be compared precisely because Martin is a professional writer (or at least he thinks he’s one) and Tolkien was not. I’m not sure why this comparison was made. It’s apples and oranges.

    And though it took Tolkien 12 years to write LOTR, it was published over slightly more than a year.

  170. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    arglaro:
    Who gives a fluck? Put the show on hold if they catch up. Show people can experience some goddamn waiting for a change. “oooh, ten months between seasons boo hoo hoo!”

    HBO gives a fuck. They’re a business and their priority is to put out good shows. They aren’t going to delay the show just to placate book readers who don’t want the books to catch up with the show.
    It’s up to GRRM to make sure it doesn’t happen. He knew this would be a possibility when he signed the rights over.
    I’m not one of those people who are super angry with him for being slow, but he doesn’t have the right to get upset about the show passing him. If he didn’t want that to happen, he shouldn’t have procrastinated.

  171. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

    Hounded,

    I think our problem is that we can’t understand why an author who has created a magnificent world with amazing characters can care so little about completing his story. He knows the show is moving fast and he knows they’re not going to stop and yet he still doesn’t care enough to focus his attention and be the one to tell his own story first. That mentality is just so hard to understand!

  172. Cumsprite
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    Vincentious:
    Alex Greyjoy,
    I’m sorry but you’re defending someone who took 12 years or so to write one book on the basis that he was a hobbyist and not really a ‘writer’?On that basis, maybe GRRM is glad he isn’t thought of as an American Tolkien by some.Either way, he still sure isn’t slower than Tolkien at any rate. I believe that was the point I was making.Tolkien’s a stupid example to use in making any argument of slowness when levelled at any ‘writer’ let alone GRRM.

    This bullshit again? Two totally different writers. Take it to the bank, GRRM loves being compared to Tolkien. He second guesses the author every chance he gets. What he would have done with Gandalf. How he would have handled religion in Middle Earth.

    You can bet your ass if Tolkien had come up with a game in his story like cyvasse, he would’ve had the rules to it somewhere. GRRM can’t even arse himself to create more than a handful of words of his fictitious languages. GRRM is great at world-building? Sure. Whatever.

    And the American Tolkien label? That came from his buddy Lev Grossman at TIME. As payment for a favorable blurb in Grossman’s fantasy novel I am sure. Despite that push, I don’t even think ADWD made TIME’s list of 100 notable books of 2011.

  173. Drfunk
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    All the hateful posts here are embarrassing. What have any of you written to be so condescending towards George? I’ve read plenty of series where the author sold out to his publishers and chugged a book every year/2years to keep that cash coming. He knows this will be the only work people will remember him for, if the material isn’t coming to him he’s not going to wing it. I’d rather he sticks to his gameplan, let the show do their thing and just pump out the books when he’s ready to show it.

    Instead of rushing the books and chug out poor quality material that will only end up pissing both spectrum of fans. If the Walking Dead can make bizillion people tune into their show after showing SEASONS of filler episodes, it’s not a stretch to see book 4/5 being stretched out. Will it be ideal? Not really. Will it still be better than what TWD is doing? Hell yeah. HBO is in the business to print money. They own this show. From posters to mugs, every last dime goes directly to them. D&D won’t need to twist their arms to extend seasons if need be, even if it’s watered down seasons.

    Either way even the most ardent haters will still be tuning to the show, let’s not kid ourselves here. As for the true fans, let’s hope he manages to finish the series regardless of the TV series.

  174. Rygar
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    I really don’t think HBO is going to want to regonotiate contracts after 7 seasons. Depending on how many regular cast members survive, they could ask for an insurmountable sum to continue for one or two seasons more. Why would HBO want to do that? Imagine at the very least 7-10 cast members asking for James Gandolfini 2018 equivalent salaries? No company would put themselves in that position, and replacing a regular type A character would be suicide. Imagine a different Tyrion, Jon, Dany, Jaime, Cersei, Joff, Sansa, Little finger, Tywin, Brienne, Arya, Bran, Theon, if the characters even live that far into the show? I can just hear Dinklage now: “You want me back as Tyrion? One million per episode.” It won’t happen.

  175. Ashara D
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    Considering the way fans have treated GRRM (and are STILL treating him) I sincerely hope that he is having a good laugh at the whiners’ expense. My opinion: TWoW will be out in the next 12 months. This is purely marketing.

  176. KG
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    Bard,

    No, he’ll blame the fans for putting so much totally unreasonable pressure on him.

  177. Cumsprite
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

    Drfunk:
    All the hateful posts here are embarrassing. What have any of you written to be so condescending towards George?

    I wrote the post above yours, I thought it was pretty good. Maybe I should’ve included dragons in it or something? I dunno.

  178. Cersei's Brain
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

    Dear Mr. GRR Martin: These people are completely crazy. It is so sad they have nothing in their lives but this imaginary TV show. Please forgive them.

  179. Bard
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    KG,

    Ok. He’ll blame everyone else but himself.

  180. Lord Davos
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    Roosebolton,

    Are we that low now? Just dont mention Blackwater and The pointy end, they arent good enough for you.

  181. Durrendon's Fool
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    I would rather see GRRM take the time he needs to write a good couple of books, regardless of what D&D do. Would I watch the show right away if it overtakes the books? Maybe not, but D&D have certainly shown that they are capable of taking things in a different direction when they want.

    If I was GRRM’s position, I don’t know whether I would say anything different in an interview in the run up to the new season. He has an interest in seeing both the show and the books do well. If he went around complaining about how the show will overtake the books, I don’t think that would be very good promotion for either.

  182. cosca
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    Ashara D,

    Considering the way GRRM has treated fans, I sincerely look forward to his becoming a laughing stock in the writing community.

  183. Lord Davos
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    cosca,

    Without D&D, this wouldnt even be a situation…

  184. cosca
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos,

    The power was ultimately GRRM’s, he could have turned D&D down, but decided to sign away the rights to his unfinished series, and then proceeded to not finish that series. The blame lies with GRRM.

  185. sjwenings
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

    Bookpurists need to wake up and realize that most GoT viewers have never read the books or have read them, but aren’t ranting daily on discussion forums, making comparisons between the books and the show.

    HBO does not care about “us” or George all that much – and why should they?

    All signs point towards a massive compression of ADWD and AFFC, and seing as how George is either dillusional or protecting himself against future critizism for being slow as hell, claiming ignorance to the speed of the show, it doesn’t seem like TWOW will be out any faster than ADWD was.

    Seing as how Georges schedule still seems pretty full of non-TWOW-stuff, and combined with the fact that he’s still publishing previews from the book that was written 3+ years ago, rather than relatively new stuff, I have a feeling he’s not working much on TWOW at all.
    ADWD was released 2.5 years ago – and he’s had over 3 years since he delivered his script – i bet he’s not even halfway there.

    The 6 years + 1 optional year contract, the MASSIVE cast, D&D already seeming fatigued and probably wanting to do other stuff relatively soon, D&D already knowing the broad strokes of the story ahead, and obviously being fond of doing “their own take” on the story, s4 including ADWD/AFFC-stuff, HBO wanting to cash in while GoT is still a thing.

    It all adds up to 7 seasons, 8 max and a story that’ll diverge more and more from the source material.

    The people that make the decisions, just don’t care as much about the books as many of us do. And there is no reason they should. No real pressure at all.

    They don’t need “us” and they don’t need George and his pending books.

  186. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

    GRRM released AGOT in 1996, ACOK in 1998 and ASOS in 2000. The quality of his work has little to do with the years spent writing and lots to do with his focus on the task at hand.

  187. Lord Davos
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings,

    D&D are superfans, who else would take on themselves this massive task.
    Just watch the video on the post before this one.

  188. SHK12344
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    I really don’t think HBO is going to want to regonotiate contracts after 7 seasons.Depending on how many regular cast members survive, they could ask for an insurmountable sum to continue for one or two seasons more.Why would HBO want to do that?Imagine at the very least 7-10 cast members asking for James Gandolfini 2018 equivalent salaries?No company would put themselves in that position, and replacing a regular type A character would be suicide.Imagine a different Tyrion, Jon, Dany, Jaime, Cersei, Joff, Sansa, Little finger, Tywin, Brienne, Arya, Bran, Theon, if the characters even live that far into the show? I can just hear Dinklage now: “You want me back as Tyrion?One million per episode.” It won’t happen.

    Wow, someone who actually understands show business. Show like Sopranos and Breaking Bad had 5-6 main characters living in one corner of the world. GOT has 2 dozen main characters spread out in 5-6 different locations.

    There is no way in the hell the show will go longer than 7 seasons.

  189. Lord Davos
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

    Family, Duty, Hodor,

    Pace would be a better word for it, the amount of time he takes writing affects the pace. Quality has remained consistent. Im sure it has improved, but splitting the story and halving the pace just kills anything reasonable coming to fruition yet.

  190. Lisa
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    Sister Wrister,

    No, you’re right. People will keep watching shows no matter how bad they get. So, go ahead and make three SUPER shitty seasons. Peole will still watch. Remember- people kept watching Dexter.

  191. Ragman's Harbor
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

    Drfunk:
    All the hateful posts here are embarrassing. What have any of you written to be so condescending towards George? I’ve read plenty of series where the author sold out to his publishers and chugged a book every year/2years to keep that cash coming. He knows this will be the only work people will remember him for, if the material isn’t coming to him he’s not going to wing it. I’d rather he sticks to his gameplan, let the show do their thing and just pump out the books when he’s ready to show it.

    Instead of rushing the books and chug out poor quality material that will only end up pissing both spectrum of fans. If the Walking Dead can make bizillion people tune into their show after showing SEASONS of filler episodes, it’s not a stretch to see book 4/5 being stretched out. Will it be ideal? Not really. Will it still be better than what TWD is doing? Hell yeah. HBO is in the business to print money. They own this show. From posters to mugs, every last dime goes directly to them. D&D won’t need to twist their arms to extend seasons if need be, even if it’s watered down seasons.

    Either way even the most ardent haters will still be tuning to the show, let’s not kid ourselves here. As for the true fans, let’s hope he manages to finish the series regardless of the TV series.

    I understand the angst towards fans who hate George and his suck-ass slow rythm of writing, but I also understand the impatience and the hate towards George. I mean, the man knew he was a slow writer when he signed the contract but he didn’t think it through.

    Wonderful, you’ve finally published ADWD in july 2011, which is my second favorite of the ASOIAF series by the way, but you do know that it will take along time writing TWOW and ADOS. 6 years at least,for the both of them. 6 years= 6seasons.

    And what did George do? He took a year off from writing; he traveled, went to cons, did interviews, watched NFL, wrote a scipt for Blackwater. All that is great, have fun and have a life dude, you deserve it. But it wasn’t responsible. After that year off writing, he wrote an 80 000 words novella for ”Dangerous Women”. He wrote and edited Wild cards. Edited ”Songs of Love and Death”. He co-wrote TWOIAF. Wrote a short story for an anthology, ”Rogues”, AND MORE…I can’t keep count.

    Sure he is a slow writer and doesn’t like rushing things, but he really isn’t helping himself. If he started writing a little more than usual, it’s not like it would be complete crap because he wrote more.

    But…at the end of the day, I have a lot of respect for the man and his imagination. He has wrote the best books I’ve ever read and I have no doubt the last 2(?) books will be out someday and he’ll get to finish ASOIAF. D&D will do their own ending based on what they know and I’m sure as hell that I’ll enjoy both endings.

  192. Premislaus
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    I’m now glad that the show will surpass the books. It’s the only way we’re going to see the ending.

    Let’s be real people. TWOW is nowhere near done. The sample chapters show little forward momentum. I wouldn’t be surprised if 25% of the book turns out to be ADWD leftovers, and GRRM is going to find out that the need 8 books to finish.
    The man has lost either his love of the series or control over the plot; possibly both.

  193. Lisa
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    Please clime out of GRRM ass. Please. People should be aloud to criticize him.

  194. Atomix
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

    you work that out ahead of time. Contractually.

  195. sjwenings
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos: D&D are superfans, who else would take on themselves this massive task.
    Just watch the video on the post before this one.

    Doesn’t matter. Clearly they don’t care that much about staying all that true to the story. Just… watch the show. And considering the arguments i (and many others) made – it’s not going to be enough going forward.

  196. Reza
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

    I know ppl are mostly pissed at GRRM here but come on! First he is the author and creator of all this, even if he decides to not finish it its his right! We should be grateful for him entertaining us up to this point! No one can force the man as if he owes anyone anything!… and I think the show people will take their separate journey when they run out of book material…

    Besides writing a book this complex and with all these characters/stories is not an easy thing to do. Im no writer, but I understand that he needs to take his time doing it, its not just typing the damn words its a creative process so he might happen to not touch the keyboard for a month if he is not in the right mood for it, cos then if he rushes it and the output is not well done he is in even more trouble, all you folks will be bashing him for the book not being good! Calm down and enjoy what you have …

  197. Lord Davos
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

    SHK12344,

    Why is it impossible, I think it is possible. GoT is maybe the most profitable show ever. Pay channel HBOs biggest audience ever, most merchandise on television, a telltale tie-in-game, crowds of pirates and book readers, northern ireland tourist founding, a travelling prop circus, loads of inspired art, zero need for commercials.
    Huge sums, and the budget is ever growing. My guess, 80 million, probably 100 by season six.

  198. Lord Davos
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

    sjwenings,

    The show is about as faithful as humanly possible. Extremely hard show to make I mind you.

  199. sjwenings
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

    Reza: Besides writing a book this complex and with all these characters/stories is not an easy thing to do. Im no writer, but I understand that he needs to take his time doing it

    Only he’s hardly even writing it. He mostly writes other stuff instead.

  200. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos,

    Yeah, his pace is the problem. Both the speed at which he releases his books and the pacing of the plot within the text. All in all, that makes the quality of his job performance over the last 13 years pretty damn poor. And whilst he doesn’t owe anything to anyone he really has no grounds for complaint if he doesn’t get to finish his own story first.

    I’m rooting for him to finish, I really am. But at this point we’ve just got to accept that by 2020 we’ll probably still be waiting for the book series to be finished.

  201. Lex
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:53 pm | Permalink

    When GRRM signed away the rights, around 2007, he thought ADWD was nearly finished.

    He probably thought that, by now, SEVEN YEARS later, he’d be finished with the final book. The man is extraordinarily bad at estimating his own productivity. He may rationalize it all he wants, but I’m pretty sure he expected to be finished the books long before the show was anywhere close to him. He clearly failed at that. Things are not going the way he’d planned.

    I’m not surprised, I always knew this would happen, but it seems like he’s still in denial… as are some of the fans.

  202. mal
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

    On another note, will he ever write prequel to Song of Ice and Fire series? I’m 32 right now, so I’d like to be reading them by the time I’m 40! BTW, how old is GRRM?

  203. Drfunk
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

    Lisa:
    Drfunk,

    Please clime out of GRRM ass. Please. People should be aloud to criticize him.

    I’ll climb out of his ass when you climb off the hate train. It’s one thing to criticize constructively on things that can be controlled, quite another to rant blindly. He made a choice to keep waiting until it meets his standard. That’s HIS choice, nothing to do with you. If you don’t like it then don’t read the book or watch the show. Sure he could be attending less conventions, sure he could eat healthier … but let me remind you that GRRM is not your bitch.

    Every writer will hit the dreaded writer’s block. It’s clear he hit that wall years ago and slowly picking at it. Unless you plan to go all Kathy Bates on him and sever his leg, I think he should be allowed to do w/e the hell he wants with his life. No one said anything about not allowing others to express themselves here. I just find it funny the sense of entitlements people often feel towards this issue.

  204. Lord Davos
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    Do people even follow Grrm? He has always written wildcards, dunk and egg, fake history, anthologies etc.
    Only now does he have one dish one his plate- Son of kong.
    Im betting this one isnt three bitches and a bastard, rather a very slick daredevil. Its just fantasy people! Not Obamas administration, of the Greek situation. This is a time to enjoy the best season of GoT. Christmas, Hanukka, national day! Why is this post here even anyway- should be about the show.

  205. chives
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    I know if I was a writer, I’d probly take it personally if a couple of TV dudes were telling me heaps of my material was bloatware & not worthy of TV…

    I’m seeing a fundamental disagreement; but D&D call the shots in their medium. So saying, as a fan of both (& not knowing what’s to come), I feel 7 season would be a bit short.

  206. coronaking
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

    Myk:
    He knows what he’s doing. I think he’ll drop Winds on us all out of nowhere and sooner than anyone would think.

    My thoughts exactly.

  207. Lord Davos
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    coronaking,

    Exactly my thoughts exactly.

  208. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    Ragman’s Harbor,

    Hear, hear!

  209. Alan
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

    Premislaus:
    I’m now glad that the show will surpass the books.It’s the only way we’re going to see the ending.

    Let’s be real people. TWOW is nowhere near done. The sample chapters show little forward momentum. I wouldn’t be surprised if 25% of the book turns out to be ADWD leftovers, and GRRM is going to find out that the need 8 books to finish.
    The man has lost either his love of the series or control over the plot; possibly both.

    Umm, he’s not going to give a bunch of sample chapters from any place except near the beginning of the book? What would you expect, to get the books climax?

    Sometimes I wonder if people here think before they write.

  210. Greenjones
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    He ain’t OUR bitch but he might be somebody else’s. A certain Mr. HBO esquire.

  211. Lord Davos
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    Dont expect this fanbase to be anything other than out of their minds.

  212. Alan
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

    Ragman’s Harbor:
    And what did George do? He took a year off from writing; he traveled, went to cons, did interviews, watched NFL, wrote a scipt for Blackwater. All that is great, have fun and have a life dude, you deserve it. But it wasn’t responsible. After that year off writing, he wrote an 80 000 words novella for ”Dangerous Women”. He wrote and edited Wild cards. Edited ”Songs of Love and Death”. He co-wrote TWOIAF. Wrote a short story for an anthology, ”Rogues”, AND MORE…I can’t keep count.

    I hate when people do this “list.” There’s ridiculous items on here like “watched NFL football.” Why not criticize him for “eating” or “sleeping” or “talking to his wife”? I heard he read the Economist one week.

    There’s redundancy. He wrote for AWOIAF, but the stories in Rogues and Dangerous Women are from AWOIAF. It’s the same content, if perhaps edited differently.

    People read a f*cking blog — one in which he intentionally doesn’t talk about Winds — and use it as a time sheet. It’s moronic.

  213. Mickey2093
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    Drfunk: I’ll climb out of his ass when you climb off the hate train. It’s one thing to criticize constructively on things that can be controlled, quite another to rant blindly. He made a choice to keep waiting until it meets his standard. That’s HIS choice, nothing to do with you. If you don’t like it then don’t read the book or watch the show. Sure he could be attending less conventions, sure he could eat healthier … but let me remind you that GRRM is not your bitch.

    Every writer will hit the dreaded writer’s block. It’s clear he hit that wall years ago and slowly picking at it. Unless you plan to go all Kathy Bates on him and sever his leg, I think he should be allowed to do w/e the hell he wants with his life. No one said anything about not allowing others to express themselves here. I just find it funny the sense of entitlements people often feel towards this issue.

    Get over it, doc –
    grim has brought every single disgruntled comment from fans onto himself. HE’s the one that made promises that he blew off. HE’s the one that continuously rubs the fact that he’s dicking off doing everything BUT working on Winds in his fans faces. ASOIAF is what made it possible for him to be DOING all of that other crap, and now he’s completely lost the thread of what he was writing, and doesn’t have the decency to admit that he’s stuck?
    Every single time one of you sycophantic gurm ass-kissers repeat that extremely old and extremely over-used quote – [begin whiny voice]“he’s not your bitch”[end whiny voice] – all any of the rest of us see is Leave grrm alone!
    so stop whining when people point out his vastnesses failings….

  214. Alan
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos:
    Alan,

    Dont expect this fanbase to be anything other than out of their minds.

    I should know better. I just used to really like to come to this site, and now, it’s either a bunch of people who think it’s a “wonderful story” with a lazy, shitty writer… or, starting when the first episode comes out, it’ll be their favorite tv show with the worst showrunners EVAR.

    It’s this awful atmosphere, like almost everyone sane has gone somewhere else. I just wish someone would tell me where that is.

  215. Dave
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

    Absolute delusion from the man.

    They’ve said multiple times they’re not interested in doing prequel seasons, and said multiple times they want 7 or 8 season tops. Him saying that books 4 and 5 give him “a couple more years” and then book 6 “gives me a couple more” is living in his own fantasy world. They’re ALREADY ON books 4 and 5.

    Not to mention again, they say 7 or 8 season tops, and now they’re on to production of season 5. George is absolutely lost. It’s sad to see too. But he has no one to blame but himself.

  216. Rygar
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos,

    Because HBO will move on. Its not profitable to renegotiate that many contracts and continue to shoot at all those locations.

    Wassup Deadwood?

  217. Steve
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    This makes me sad.

    Honestly, you can see the seeds being planted here for a bad ending between GRRM and D&D. The tension is starting to grow as they move closer, and if George truly believes everything that he said in this interview (which is mind boggling if he truly does believe it), he’s going to be angry and likely resentful towards D&D when they pass him and give up the ending to his story.

    But it is his fault. He released book 5 just a few weeks after season 1 ended. It’s unbelievable that he hasn’t been able to get the next book out in the subsequent 3 years that followed knowing that he now has pressure on his back to do so.

    All the guy needed to do was write 250 words a day and the book would be done by now. It’s beyond obvious he doesn’t work on it everyday, maybe he doesn’t even work on it at all multiple days in a row.

  218. Liz
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    The article seems a little tongue-in-cheek to me – the way they call it a “surprisingly detailed plan”. As in, it’s surprising he’s still going on like this after HBO and D&D explicitly said (most likely in response to his hopeful speculations) that they weren’t going over 8 seasons. Split ADWD and AFFC into three seasons? What a joke! Not to mention that he wants five years to get out TWOW, but is hoping he’ll finish ADOS in two? Seriously, George, use those dumptrucks of money to buy yourself a clue already.

  219. Dogs
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:44 pm | Permalink

    Mickey2093,

    I just think we need to all get over ourselves though. George is just a dude, writing a book. Regardless of the mob of helpless and opinionated people trying to peer in through his window. Things will go as they go, and though we can rage about it, raging ultimately just creates a negative atmosphere around here. So we should just get over ourselves.

  220. Ser Davos Seaworth
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:49 pm | Permalink

    Myk,

    We all hope…

  221. Syrio
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 10:51 pm | Permalink

    I don’t know how his answer makes any sense at all given what the producers have said about expecting the show to last 7-8 seasons total. He must be just giving stock answers. At this point this is no way the show wont catch up with him. I think he’s just trying to keep the book fans from rioting by not admitting this openly. Deep down he knows they will pass him soon

  222. Tom
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

    I support GRRM and Dan and David. They all work so hard, and are not entitled to our instant gratification. The reality is that the couple started this series in honor and tribute to the brilliant, continuing works, of George RR Martin. They will not betray his future in telling his story (BY HIS BOOKS) to the readers. I bet you the Iron Throne.

    Nobody knows exactly how each actor is contracted, I believe they’ll do whatever necessary to see it to its end. It will probably be the best thing any of them do with their career, ever.

    The dialogue between all writers (including George), actors and producers is open, detailed and ongoing. Where some characters will be sacrificed, others will emerge. The series will get tighter. There are accountants to deal with that minutia. Solved.

    It is important to maintain the reality that this could be ended after 7 years, at the minimum.
    It could go on for 8, even 9.
    It should go on for 9, to tell the full story and allow time to get both books out. That makes the most sense, in fairness and in grandeur. Of course, it will be the first of its kind in HBO history to make it that far (is that correct?) But what better show to do so?

    I am in favor of compassing all stories, companies, kingdoms, and the future of this series both in print and on screen.
    There us an enormous amount of content in books 4 and 5, all doubters! Sure, they’re jumping ahead with Theon, but this doesn’t mean they have sacrificed their material. There is Dorne, and Greyjoys, and Oldtown, and Pentos, and LS, and so much more!
    They have been so detailed in the first 3 series, it will at least maintain that standard. By the time season 7 comes along, HBO will see the real form of this story, and should allow it to continue for one/two more seasons, happily.

    It IS important for the show-runners to give a cautious, public report on this matter.
    It is GRRMs privilege to be more upfront with what we can actually expect from their ongoing collaboration. You don’t need to worry. Send good eeeennneeerrrggyy. He is writing.
    Your resident optimist.

  223. Lord Davos
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

    Tom,

    I love you, no homo.

  224. Lord Davos
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 11:30 pm | Permalink

    Mickey2093,

    Youall forget that Asoiaf was grrms escape from all that crap, and now all that is catching up to him. It does not matter to him, its one adaption, he regards them as plays, no more, to be done over again to perfection, and give attention to the books. And what a sucess! I just wonder how long until the next adaption, it must be longer and bigger, 300 hours would suffice. I am just happy GoT has set a standard on every level. Amen this is good times, no worry, no cry. I can wait to 2020 for the books.

  225. Justin
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

    Alan,

    Thank you for this.

    Seriously, guys, chill out. Take this all with a massive grain of salt. George repeats the same things over and over in interviews a thousand different times. These kind of empty, hypothetical statements just create buzz for the series, as we’ve directly seen from this thread, and I’m sure that he’s under contract (likely with both HBO and Bantam) over what he’s allowed (and not allowed) to say about his forthcoming books. None of us has a clue just how far he is into TWoW and for all we know its publication could be announced this summer! So let’s take a deep breath and stop disparaging the very people that have given us this awesome series. We’re overthinking it.

    Here’s to Season 4!

  226. Mickey2093
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 11:35 pm | Permalink

    Apparently grrm isn’t the only delusional one.
    I don’t know how many different ways weiss and benioff can say it –
    they’ve said 7-8 seasons right from the start. it’s the fans (and grrm) that have speculated that it could go longer.
    They’ve decided to do as much as possible to get it in 7 – hell, they even contracted the actors for 7 seasons – not 8, not 9, but 7. They’re not stupid enough to do that planning on more than 7, since that would allow them to be put over a barrel, and hbo isn’t that stupid, even if the two of them were.
    If anyone has paid attention, they have weeded out the chaff in writing the scripts. How much traveling have you watched in GoT? Not a whole hell of a lot – because it’s boring. hbo didn’t take this show on to give its viewers boring – they want to compete with showtime, tmc, etc. and that means exciting viewing.
    The majority of both affc and adwd is traveling, even if you include the compelling and thoroughly thought-provoking descriptions of marine life and the tantalizing depictions of various delicacies along the way. All of which is fairly easily compressed into tiny little blurbs onscreen. Compressing those leaves room for action, drama, and it being hbo – sex.
    The likelihood of affc/adwd taking more than 3/4 of a season is so negligible as to be dismissed out of hand, regardless of how grrm would like it done. That’s precisely why he got out of television and decided to write asoiaf in the first place – because they wouldn’t do scripts the way he wanted them. well – big surprise – they still won’t – what he would like to do would be far too expensive and would leave viewers wondering what the hell was going on. Too much goes on inside peoples heads for it to be directly translatable.
    Take all of the inner thoughts that cannot be translated, the majority of the meandering of various characters, and the unimportant feasting and wildlife expositions out, and how much can you possibly stretch that out?
    anyone refusing to accept that is living inside one of his novels, not reading them or watching the adaptation for entertainment purposes…

  227. Ragman's Harbor
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 11:42 pm | Permalink

    Alan: I hate when people do this “list.” There’s ridiculous items on here like “watched NFL football.” Why not criticize him for “eating” or “sleeping” or “talking to his wife”? I heard he read the Economist one week.

    There’s redundancy. He wrote for AWOIAF, but the stories in Rogues and Dangerous Women are from AWOIAF. It’s the same content, if perhaps edited differently.

    People read a f*cking blog — one in which he intentionally doesn’t talk about Winds — and use it as a time sheet. It’s moronic.

    Yeah maybe ”watching NFL” wasn’t the best I wrote in there. But my point was, he didn’t realize the gravity of the situation, when he should have. Taking a complete year off and writing other(a lot) things is pretty irresponsible. I’m not angry at him, on the contrary, but I do believe he could’ve been more careful. Whatever, I can wait, great guy non the less.

  228. Hodor Targaryen
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 11:42 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos:
    SHK12344,

    Why is it impossible, I think it is possible. GoT is maybe the most profitable show ever. Pay channel HBOs biggest audience ever, most merchandise on television, a telltale tie-in-game, crowds of pirates and book readers, northern ireland tourist founding, a travelling prop circus, loads of inspired art, zero need for commercials.
    Huge sums, and the budget is ever growing. My guess, 80 million, probably 100 by season six.

    Game of Thrones is very profitable…for now. But every show reaches its peak, and I think Season 5 will probably lose viewers. After Season 4, its best days are behind them.

    And while GoT is very profitable, it’s also very expensive. If it gets to eight seasons, expect Dinkledge and others to ask for significantly more money, which they should. HBO doesn’t want to risk putting that much money into one year of a show. I think they’d rather that the show finished off well the year before negotiations.

  229. zerowolf
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 11:55 pm | Permalink

    Has anyone here realised that perhaps GRRM has outlined his proposed endings for various characters’ story arcs and D&D don’t rate his ideas that highly?
    That they could ignore him and contrive their own, probably more succinct, version?
    They have been doing this for the past two seasons in any case and quite successfully too.
    Once the show passes the books, which will definitely be after Season 5 or perhaps two episodes into Season 6, a lot of the nonsense in these comments will be redundant.
    We will no longer have books to compare the show to. That should stop all this pointless whining.
    In about ten years when the books are finished ( Ho. Freaking. Ho ) we will be doing the reverse – we will be screaming that GRRM ruined the ideas in the show with his version!

  230. The Bastard
    Posted March 15, 2014 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    AFFC & ADWD content is being used over Season’s 4 & 5. Anybody who thinks there is enough content in those two books to be stretched further is delusional. I think AFFC is fantastic but half is internal conflicts that have no translation to the television.

    As long as GRRM has his draft of TWOW that he gives to his editors, then D&D can read it and go from there. It doesn’t need to be out to the public for them to use it for Season 6. I am confident that will happen.

    I think GRRM will have to stop writing the books and help D&D with season 7 to put more pieces together. There is no other option. There is no way a guy who writes at this pace and finish ADOS sooner.

    Unless GRRM is lying about his progress, he knows he won’t finish before the TV show. He just can’t say it to the public because of the storm of issues it would cause.

  231. The Bastard
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:01 am | Permalink

    Hodor Targaryen: Game of Thrones is very profitable…for now. But every show reaches its peak, and I think Season 5 will probably lose viewers. After Season 4, its best days are behind them.

    And while GoT is very profitable, it’s also very expensive. If it gets to eight seasons, expect Dinkledge and others to ask for significantly more money, which they should. HBO doesn’t want to risk putting that much money into one year of a show. I think they’d rather that the show finished off well the year before negotiations.

    If they make it to Season 8, how many of the characters from Season 1 will be left to ask for a raise? A lot of them will likely be dead.

  232. ANiceChianti
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:08 am | Permalink

    Greatness Arrisessss,

    This is the comment I was going to make, verbatim.

  233. The Bastard
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:27 am | Permalink

    Tom:
    I support GRRM and Dan and David.They all work so hard, and are not entitled to our instant gratification.The reality is that the couple started this series in honor and tribute to the brilliant, continuing works, of George RR Martin.They will not betray his future in telling his story (BY HIS BOOKS) to the readers.I bet you the Iron Throne.

    Nobody knows exactly how each actor is contracted, I believe they’ll do whatever necessary to see it to its end.It will probably be the best thing any of them do with their career, ever.

    The dialogue between all writers (including George), actors and producers is open, detailed and ongoing. Where some characters will be sacrificed, others will emerge.The series will get tighter.There are accountants to deal with that minutia.Solved.

    It is important to maintain the reality that this could be ended after 7 years, at the minimum.
    It could go on for 8, even 9.
    It should go on for 9, to tell the full story and allow time to get both books out.That makes the most sense, in fairness and in grandeur.Of course, it will be the first of its kind in HBO history to make it that far (is that correct?)But what better show to do so?

    I am in favor of compassing all stories, companies, kingdoms, and the future of this series both in print and on screen.
    There us an enormous amount of content in books 4 and 5, all doubters!Sure, they’re jumping ahead with Theon, but this doesn’t mean they have sacrificed their material.There is Dorne, and Greyjoys, and Oldtown, and Pentos, and LS, and so much more!
    They have been so detailed in the first 3 series, it will at leastmaintain that standard.By the time season 7 comes along, HBO will see the real form of this story, and should allow it to continue for one/two more seasons, happily.

    It IS important for the show-runners to give a cautious, public report on this matter.
    It is GRRMs privilege to be more upfront with what we can actually expect from their ongoing collaboration.You don’t need to worry.Send good eeeennneeerrrggyy.He is writing.
    Your resident optimist.

    This comment is almost as delusional as GRRM’s belief that he won’t be passed by the show.

    If they added those elements from the book, we would see each main character once every 3 episodes each season. You can’t tell a television story like that. Some elements will be cut.

    GRRM signed off on the television rights to his story. I don’t think anybody at HBO cares if they tell the story first.

  234. Topdecker
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:28 am | Permalink

    GRRM needs to stop going on talk shows and doing side projects and making 200 guest appearances every year at conventions and such if he wants to finish the ASOIAF. Perhaps he doesn’t really want to finish them in his lifetime and just wants to milk all the fame and glory he can while he has it.

  235. Steve
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:29 am | Permalink

    Tom:
    I support GRRM and Dan and David.They all work so hard, and are not entitled to our instant gratification.The reality is that the couple started this series in honor and tribute to the brilliant, continuing works, of George RR Martin.They will not betray his future in telling his story (BY HIS BOOKS) to the readers.I bet you the Iron Throne.

    Nobody knows exactly how each actor is contracted, I believe they’ll do whatever necessary to see it to its end.It will probably be the best thing any of them do with their career, ever.

    It is important to maintain the reality that this could be ended after 7 years, at the minimum.
    It could go on for 8, even 9.

    I appreciate your optimism but I disagree with these 3 specific statements.

    1. I do believe they will tell the ending that George has told them. If they must fill in the blanks in certain situations they will do so, but I do not believe they will write their own ending. That becomes fan fiction, and David Benioff and Dan Weiss did not dedicate at that point 7 or 8 years of their life to end the series differently than the source material from which the adaptation happened.

    2. We do know how the contract situation applies to some of the cast because of a 2013 EW.com online interview with D&D, also comments made in 2012 by HBO programming president Michael Lombardo. There is 6 year contracts with an HBO option for a 7th season. Of course we don’t know who this applies to, because not all characters will make a 6th or 7th season. But it applies to some of them. After a 7th season, they would need to individually renegotiate with every single cast member remaining. All of whom will want a significant pay raise.

    3. This could be the main reason why they want 7 seasons.

  236. Tom
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:30 am | Permalink

    The Bastard,

    i guess we’ll see in a couple years what happens, see you then

  237. suntil
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:40 am | Permalink

    What news has there been about the writing stage of season 5? Last year GRRM announced on April 3 that he’d turned in the first draft of his season 4 script, and all the scripts were done by late May/early June. Unless they are way behind schedule, season 5 is well into being written right now and there’s no way GRRM can still be so ignorant of what they’re planning. Not to mention all of the AFFC/ADWD material contained in season 4.

  238. The Bastard
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:42 am | Permalink

    Tom:
    The Bastard,

    i guess we’ll see in a couple years what happens, see you then

    I think we already know what will happen. The “book readers” are just sad that GRRM let them down and won’t be finishing the books first. And now they are making up unrealistic scenarios to rationalize the situation.

    That is a lot of what I am reading on here.

  239. Tom
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:47 am | Permalink

    The Bastard,

    i do not believe this to be correct, but i respect your opinion, and have already expanded on my reasoning.

  240. The Bastard
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:50 am | Permalink

    suntil:
    What news has there been about the writing stage of season 5? Last year GRRM announced on April 3 that he’d turned in the first draft of his season 4 script, and all the scripts were done by late May/early June. Unless they are way behind schedule, season 5 is well into being written right now and there’s no way GRRM can still be so ignorant of what they’re planning. Not to mention all of the AFFC/ADWD material contained in season 4.

    He is either acting like he doesn’t know the current pacing so he can save face with his fanbase or he already has the rest of the series lined up to have a TV & Book Duel Release coming up in a few years.

    99.9% chance of my first option. .1% chance of my second option.

  241. Ser Tahu
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:57 am | Permalink

    suntil,
    Bryan Cogman tweeted yesterday that he is in the middle of rewatching the first three seasons in preparation for season 4 and writing for season 5.

  242. The Bastard
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 1:03 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu:
    suntil,
    Bryan Cogman tweeted yesterday that he is in the middle of rewatching the first three seasons in preparation for season 4 and writing for season 5.

    I just rewatched all 3 seasons over the last month.

    The show flows great over the 30 episodes. It doesn’t even feel like different seasons. The only small hiccup is changes to actors, but that is a tiny gripe compared to the scale of the show.

  243. Paul
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 1:11 am | Permalink

    Poor Georgie! Some will be marching him buckass naked to the bearpit soon,he has given us a lot of pleasure(and much to post about)

  244. loco73
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 1:13 am | Permalink

    Wow, yet another thread about this issue! We get to vomit on one another again with our “insightful analysis” about a topic we’ve discussed ad-nauseam, one which we can’t do anything about. We can either stop watching GoT and give up reading the novels…or do the opposite, suck it up and hope for the best…

    Other than that, short of anyone here having a direct impact or input on the show, everything else is just a collection of musings and educated guesses, which I’ll grant you are entertaining for a while, but only a very, very short while!

    Can we just look forward to Season Four and enjoy that…instead of what has by now become little more than pointless bickering?!

    God, I miss Winter/Phil’s departure already….

  245. Greenjones
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 1:38 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    I doubt he’ll be on twitter for much longer. He’s already being trolled relentlessly by the usual suspects. Guess who? Would Stannis and Sansa fans really keep that up? Predictably yes.

  246. Aaron 2.0
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 1:39 am | Permalink

    Prequal season involving Dunk and Egg? Bwahahaha. That series isn’t done yet either!

  247. WompWomp
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:01 am | Permalink

    Aaron 2.0,

    OW! You’ve crushed my hope gland!

  248. Dolorous Ned
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:10 am | Permalink

    Aaron 2.0,

    Yeah, because it matters whether a series of selfcontained standalone stories is finished or not.
    There still won’t be a prequel season

  249. B Cogman
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:53 am | Permalink

    Greenjones,

    Ah, no worries. Sticking around this time. Thicker skin!

  250. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:53 am | Permalink

    Jim_BO,

    I hope what he means is that three AFFC/ADWD seasons include season 4 (which has a little of them) and season 6 (which will have a little to a bunch of them too).

    Maybe. Maybe, that “seven seasons plan” James Hibberd talked about was his dellusion too. Maybe D&D are telling HBO what they want to hear, but the show will actually go for 8 seasons. It definitely makes more sense in every way from a story standpoint. It would allow for AFFC and ADWD to be adapted neatly into a season and a half, with all the big events coming up early in TWOW to serve as the climaxes that ADWD didn’t have. Then you’ve got 1 more season of TWOW +a little bit of set up for ADOS, and the final season covering what’s left.

    It still means GRRM needs to finish TWOW before season 5, but that would allow him three years to write the last book before season 8 begins. He’ll already have carried on material, and he’ll witness the show’s pace head on, so he’ll have no choice but to sit and write.

    But if 7 seasons is a done deal, GRRM is fucked. He should know about these things. He should also know that AFFC and ADWD can hardly serve for 3 seasons, that 2 would already be too much. He should also know that a bunch of it is coming in season 4 (two or three Theon chapters out of 7, two Dany chapters out of 10, potentially ALL of the Brienne chapters- though they can still rearrange events from her AFFC arc into season 5 while she goes looking for Jamie).

    GRRM should know these things. He should know that the show won’t go beyond 8 seasons. Someone should break it to him.

  251. B Cogman
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:53 am | Permalink

    The funny thing being that I love Stannis & Sansa… but what can I do?

  252. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:59 am | Permalink

    B Cogman,

    Keep on doing it! How aware is GRRM of your plans, if I may ask?

  253. Greenjones
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:00 am | Permalink

    B Cogman,
    B Cogman,

    That’s good to hear! While you’re around I’d be shirking my duties if I didn’t press you for some info. This isn’t spoilery or anything. Is Thor Bjornsson’s accent dubbed for him playing the Mountain? Because I saw him interviewed and he had quite the thick Icelandic voice which doesn’t really gel with him being Rory McCann’s brother on screen and all.

  254. Dnis
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:20 am | Permalink

    I read the whole interview, and it was actually quite interesting, even though there wasn’t much new in it. Reading between the lines, I get the sense GRRM knows that he won’t keep pace (I have a feeling we’ll be getting into tWoW, possibly deep into it for a few characters, by the end of Season 5), but he won’t admit it just yet.

    Liked his take on The Sixth Sense; that was just like how I experienced it, and I almost never know what’s going on in movies. Twists work best when the audience doesn’t know there’s a twist. I certainly wasn’t expecting a POV death in the first book. I just wish he’d been more mindful of that when he put in all those fake deaths in ADWD.

  255. Grijnwaald
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:03 am | Permalink

    I just hope the show doesn’t cut out some of the major characters in the later books, Frodo, Gandalf and Gimli for example, and if Sean Bean doesn’t try to take the ring from Frodo, I don’t think I’ll even bother watching.

  256. Taena
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:12 am | Permalink

    I don’t think anyone deserves any hate about this stuff.. I adore the books and GoT is probably my favourite tv show so, you know, I trust GRRM and D&D, end of. Even if they contradict each other in magazine interviews, all that matters is the end result, and I’m sure it will all be great :) If they overtake him, I will worry about it when it comes – debating it won’t make GRRM write it faster, or D&D go slower lol!

  257. Taena
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:15 am | Permalink

    Just a thought, aren’t D&D notorious practical jokers about plot lines etc – are they just teasing us with ‘only 7 seasons’? :P

  258. Caravaggio
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:28 am | Permalink

    Roosebolton:
    Dear HBO,

    Stay strong, stay focused, don’t listen to the old crazy man reading the NY Jets draft reports. You have a great TV show here, with great writers (excluding GRRM), great cast, and great crew. Trust them to give you three, ok maybe four more,awesome seasons and end this wonderful story. DON’T worry about the books, don’t worry about the hard-core book nerd fans (and I used to be one) complaining about whats canon and what isn’t. Just worry about the TV show.

    Regardless of when (if) these books are ever finish, the fans will pay for HBO, watch the show religiously, and buy the DVDs. Good luck.

    Out of all the comments I’ve scrolled through, this is the one that voices my opinion the most. Thank you!

  259. StowoW
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:36 am | Permalink

    I don’t think he is aware of what he wrote himself. I mean, the last two books were very good, but there is not enough to make three seasons ! One season would be enough, maybe two, but that’s all…

  260. Caravaggio
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:45 am | Permalink

    Alan: I should know better. I just used to really like to come to this site, and now, it’s either a bunch of people who think it’s a “wonderful story” with a lazy, shitty writer… or, starting when the first episode comes out, it’ll be their favorite tv show with the worst showrunners EVAR.

    It’s this awful atmosphere, like almost everyone sane has gone somewhere else. I just wish someone would tell me where that is.

    Strangely enough, REDDIT. The ASOIAF subreddit has a good community with a healthy level of self-awareness. The plus is you can downvote shitty, no-merit comments so you can hide them from the site.

    I used to go here regularly too, but I realized it tended to be a vortex of negativity (Seven hells, the threads in the articles about Oberyn’s casting and Finn Jones’ inconsequential quip about Loras not having enough gay sex) so I stopped going. The ASOIAF reddit sub is much more fun.

    Or, if you want someplace really fun and much more innocent, I recommend you lurk in the “Completely Unspoiled Speculation” Game of Thrones forum over at Television Without Pity. It’s a community of show-onlies who’ve pledged to not read the books. It’s wonderful to see them speculate and focus on the story only, removed of any of the ridiculous meta-drama that comes from news about the books.

  261. Lollius Palicanus
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:46 am | Permalink

    I love it. After all the whining that no-one cares for this fanbase, BC comes waltzing in with some random comment.

  262. UnbowedUnbentUnhodor
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:47 am | Permalink

    did he just say that you can make 3 seasons from affc and adwd? is that a joke or what hahahaha

  263. Vic Sage
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:48 am | Permalink

    Jim_BO:
    I think i see whats going on here. When D&D took on the job of bringing the books to TV AFFC has notbeen published yet.

    We all know from interviews GRRM hates the idea of cuting the material out of his books and with the first 3 books witch are phenomenal there is no problem. But D&D could not have known that AFFC/DWD would be horrible basicly just filler with nothing happening for 90% of the time.

    So now how to they make this man realize that the last 2 books are worth 1 tv season max without making him angry? They seem to be trying by limiting the number of seasons but he seems to be fighting them by not givingthem details of the last 2 books. That was hes forcing them to either make up their own story or film the filler rubish.

    I would think Martin would prefer for them to film the filler rubbish.They go off on their own with the story they still cut material out.

  264. UnbowedUnbentUnhodor
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:48 am | Permalink

    im hoping he’s close to finishing twow and is just trolling everyone so it’ll be a surprise when it comes out. He’ll be like ‘oh by the way guys I’ve finished there you go..have fun’

  265. zambi76
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:59 am | Permalink

    I did some very scientific estimations based on all available GURM data:

    “The Winds of Winter” – 2015
    “Oops couldn’t fit that in there” – 2019
    “A Dream of Spring” – 2023

    That’s 12 years from ASOS to ADWD and another 12 years from ADWD to the end.

    ;o)

  266. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:59 am | Permalink

    Lollius Palicanus,

    He’s trolling us hard. lol

  267. Summer is Coming
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:07 am | Permalink

    I love the show and I love the books. There are still some things that I don’t like in both the stories, but still I have never been taken over so much by either a book series or a tv show. I said this things to counterbalance all the dirt that is being flown around here. Since when this site has become an annex to westeros.org forums? Good to know Bryan has a thicker skin… can’t even imagine his disappointment reading the comments…

    The books will appear when they will appear! The only thing I wish for is health for GRRM and many more years of lucid mind.
    The show will have 7 (please no) or 8 or 9 seasons.. I still don’t believe it’s written in stone the number. I don’t believe D&D will go with 7 just because it sounds good. (7 kingdoms, 7 seasons).

    I believe we should all relax and ready ourselves for Season 4, which I have no doubt, it will be a blast! >:D<

  268. Premislaus
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:08 am | Permalink

    Alan: Umm, he’s not going to give a bunch of sample chapters from any place except near the beginning of the book? What would you expect, to get the books climax?

    Sometimes I wonder if people here think before they write.

    Do no put words in my mouth, you [redacted for civility]. I was talking about the content of the sample chapters.
    It’s half a dozen of chapters set during “battles” at the battles itself are just starting. It’s a two or three chapters of a travelogue with a detour into some freaking cave and table conversations with low-level bannermen (how would Catelyn’s AGoT’s work if her travels were given a similar level of details). Apparently there’s a chapter of Aeron, even thought his storyline (sowing dissent on Iron Island) is something that ought to be told off page if GRRM ever hopes to finish the series.
    Count the Meereen battle chapters – both the ones already written, and the ones GRRM needs to write in order to conclude the battle, count the Winterfell battle chapters, count the Arianne travelogue chapters, count the Dany-among-the-dothraki chapters. That’s easily 20-25% of the book devoted to just finishing off ADWD plotlines.

  269. oic
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:10 am | Permalink

    Theres not going to be 3 seasons out of 4th and 5th book. 2 seasons at most. Then depending how long 6th book is, thats another 1-2 seasons.
    So he has 2 years for book 6th
    and 3-4 years for book 7th

  270. sphinx is the riddle
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:14 am | Permalink

    grrm you are a silly silly man

  271. Satin
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:16 am | Permalink

    Wow, that escalated quickly.

    *gets popcorn*
    *hands some to Summer is Coming*

    I’m looking forward to the new season, too.

    Oh, and, hi, Bryan Cogman, if that’s really you. Love your work!

  272. Dwarf-lover
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:26 am | Permalink

    The way I see it , let the writers or producers finish the show in 7 seasons and let GRR take his bloody time with his books . It’s almost a going conclusion that he won’t finish them in time , so what’s the point in even trying ? So let the fans stop worrying about that and enjoy the show’s version of this epic tale !

  273. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    Satin,

    Actually, compared to the “seven seasons” post and the “Pedro=Oberyn” post, this is rather tame. I’ll be eating coco-puffs, so you don’t need to offer me any of that popcorn. I’m totally not offended by that :,(

    Anyway, I am patiently waiting to see Rygar’s comment here. It’s to be a hilarious, trolltastic wall of text. Or a hilariously random comment.

  274. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:36 am | Permalink

    Dwarf-lover:
    The way I see it , let the writers or producers finish the show in 7 seasons and let GRR take his bloody time with his books . It’s almost a going conclusion that he won’t finish them in time , so what’s the point in even trying ? So let the fans stop worrying about that and enjoy the show’s version of this epic tale !

    Yeah, that’s probably going to happen. No reason to be bitter about it. I still think 8 seasons would be better, though.

  275. Vancore
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:36 am | Permalink

    zerowolf,

    Very much agree, GRRM has lost interest in his saga, the showrunners haven’t and will complete it. Can’t really blame the guy either, I could name 5 epic stories within the last 10 years that sputtered out due to one reason or another and I don’t think GRRM is an exception.

  276. Mursk
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:37 am | Permalink

    Here comes an entire episode of Doran watching the children play in the pool. Join us next week for Aero’s thoughts on last week’s episode.

    Maybe they can film Season 7 and then bury it in a time capsule, not to be opened and aired until ADOS is published. Then we can see a 35 year old Maisie doing the DVD commentary.

  277. Summer is Coming
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 6:11 am | Permalink

    Satin,

    thanks for the popcorn. I need it, for this is one bad film I’m watching on this site.

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    Pedro=Oberyn one was a proof of hysteria, really. And then came the trailers and peoplez chilled. The seven seasons thread was to be taken with a xanax.. very depressing. This one is more hatred-infused.
    Rygar commented above.. he said something about 7 seasons being a certainty and I stopped reading and started crying..

    why am I waiting moderation? what is so ghastly about my comment?

  278. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 6:16 am | Permalink

    Wacka Wacka bing bing!
    GRRMpkins and snarks!

  279. Summer is Coming
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 6:23 am | Permalink

    Cut Dorne, it’s useless sand shit!
    Cut Vicatrion, he’s stupid!
    Cut Euron, so we don’t need to hear Veltigar anymore lobby-ing for Mads Mikkelsen!
    Cut the kingsmoot, I hate it!
    Cut Penny, send her to Pennywise the dancing clown!
    Cut Theon… oh wait…

    Will some of these people cu ME some slack?

  280. Satin
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 6:26 am | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    I thought you were still asleep! I never know who is in which timezone.

    *makes more popcorn and hands it over*

    I don’t think I read the Pedro=Oberyn post, but yeah, the 7 Seasons one was pretty hardcore.

    I agree, where is Rygar? This post could use a penis joke or two.

  281. Satin
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 6:36 am | Permalink

    Vancore,

    I honestly think it might be the doorstopper mentality still prevailent in Fantasy. Tolkien did three large books and put the rest of his world in the Silmarillion, and likely would have published similar works had he managed to finish more. I don’t think every epic fantasy needs to be like Tolkien by any stretch, but 3 books is a pretty good, solid formula.

    It seems to me that Martin is still very much interested in this world, but maybe it would be easier if he decided to leave out some of the reactions to the oncoming apocalypse, and simply put them in a “history companion” later? Or even do other trilogies: if he enjoys writing the Greyjoys so much, why not give them their own set of books? And I’m not just saying that because I could then skip them.

    As for the endless TV show vs Books debate, back when the LOTR movies came out (yes, I’m really that old), someone said something that I found quite useful: just imagine this as historical events, and both the books and the movies (or in our case the TV series) are just different ways of telling them.

  282. GeekFurious
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 6:38 am | Permalink

    It’s always interesting when these guys show up to any discussion on the Internet.

  283. Summer is Coming
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 6:46 am | Permalink

    *humming and waiting for my comments to be moderated*

    -10 min later-
    *starring at the computer and waiting for my comments to be moderated*

    -30 min later-
    *cursing the Lord of Light/scratching my face/ laughing maniacally/pulling my hair knowing that Ned liked my hair….. and waiting for my comments to be moderated*

  284. Turri
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 6:56 am | Permalink

    But fans of Westeros and its complicated narratives shouldn’t panic just yet.

    I disagree.

  285. Falcon
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    All those whiny, self-centered fan-comments: GRRM lost focus… he lost control over his plot… he lost interest…his legacy!!….. OHHH come on…..Relax.

    GRRM is an adult, 65-year-old man… he can do what he wants and nothing what he has done seems that he lost interest in ASOIAF.

    If the series overtakes the books, then we all have to accept this. It is not a catastrophy.

    GRRM will put out the books when they are done. And this is okay for me .

    By the way NOBODY really knows how much GRRM really spends with writing TWOW. All people assume that he is just writing other stuff, going to cons etc. But we do not have the exact time. So it is merely an assumption, an deductive reasoning from publishing novellas, wild-cards stuff/anthologies and some blog entries, that GRRM is not working on TWOW in a focused way.

  286. KG
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    B Cogman,

    Hi! Keep up the good work; can’t wait for the new episodes! ^_^

  287. Tony
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    It’s not impossible. We shouldnt lose hope just because experiences in the past. It will be difficult but not impossible. I just hope the quality of the books isnt affected because they are released quicker than they should. On the other hand some of George’s best work was written the fastest…

    For starters GRRM has to be further along on TWOW than he lets on. Announcement this summer, publication march 2015 just ahead of S5 to keep the buzz going and let the two profit. While the show might lose a LITTLE bit in popularity since D&D condense all the travelling to the core elements the show will remain strong.
    S6 will consist of TWOW publiced a year before / when shooting starts so all the material is there. George even gets his wish since AFFC and ADWD will tecnically be spread out over 3 seasons. Some elements (Theon, Bran) will be in S4 while others might still need to be adressed in S6. Now comes the problem. GRRM will have to have finished the main points / conclusions of ADOS in a year. The book itself wont be finished but D&D will know what to do shooting S7. The path to conclusions wont always be the same but the conclusions will be. S7 will start in winter 2017 giving George half a year extra to publish ADOS. It will be done a week or two before the start of the final season. That season will be split Breaking Bad style 2×7 / 14. 7 in november / december ’17 and 7 more in april/may ’18. Technically 7 seasons but it gives everyone more time and doesnt mess with contracts. Everyone lives happy ever after… Right?

  288. Annara Ho
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    Mursk,

    lol

  289. Vincentious
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    Drfunk,

    That’s a good point you made surrounding The Walking Dead. There’s been plenty of episodes that are purely character based, with the bare minimum zombie action, and just involving people basically talking to each other and ‘getting through’ their situations.

    If they can apply this to a successful show that’s still seen in its zillions like you said then I’m sure Game of Thrones can live with a few episodes per season lifted from some of the AFFC/ADWD character / ‘plottier’ moments.

  290. Turncloak
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    Vincentious,

    Those Walking Dead “character” moments are awful. This is mainly due to the terrible writing and actors. I wouldn’t use The Walking Dead as an example Game of Thrones should follow. TWD is literally a show that you have to turn your brain off to watch due to character stupidity

  291. Joshua Atreides
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    Rygar,

    Wait a second…that’s a very rational, logical and non sarcastic comment. Who are you and what have you done with our Rygar? ;)

  292. Joshua Atreides
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    I think Rygar just warged into Bryan Cogman…oh boy. *grabs fresh batch of popcorn and sits back contentedly*

  293. Alex Greyjoy
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    Also, there is no “main story” in TWD. It’s a show about survival of people in post-apocalyptic world. There is no looming threat of ancient evil ice zombies, no political intrigue, no revenge stories – nothing of that sort. When you understand what kind of stories TWD is trying to tell, you stop being pissed off at stuff like 5 episodes of people arguing on the farm or Beth and Daryl looking for booze for entire episode. There are whole episodes where absolutely nothing happens, and I do make fun of it, but it’s mostly done well.

    The equivalent of this kind of storytelling would be 5 episodes consisting entirely of people walking through the woods and talking about stuff that has nothing to do with anything that goes on in larger plot. Show fans will not like it, to put it mildly.

  294. Vincentious
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    But Game of Thrones has better actors and arguably better source material to work with. I think The Walking Dead comparison is applicable in as much as I’d be happy with seeing Game of Thrones calm down for a while after the action of s4, and stay with the characters and the fall out from that. It doesn’t ‘need’ to be a spectacular action piece, or event every other episode to keep people watching.

    I’m surprised so many are so worried about how the AFFC/ADWD adaption will pan out. If you’ve read them, there’s actually plenty to draw from but it’ll probably just bring a different dynamic to the show for a season or two. It might not be as dazzling in some ways until the action really hots up again come TWOW, but it could be cool. And there ‘are’ definite action beats in ADWD.

  295. TFT
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    What the hell?? How does he STILL not know.

    How does he think

    What the f…

    What a guy. Well it’s official: the show will pass the books long before ADOS comes out.

  296. Joshua Atreides
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Oh. My. God.

    R + Y + G + A + R = bRYAn coGman? :-0

  297. sunspear
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    Ok, three seasons for AFFC/ADWD is ridiculous and will never happen in a million years, but anyone saying we’re going to get the Battle of Meereen by the end of Season 5 is more delusional than Martin is.

    AFFC/ADWD can easily fill up all of season 5 and most of season 6. People who think they are going axe entire plotlines to finish faster are kidding themselves. THERE IS NOT AS MUCH FILLER IN THESE BOOKS AS YOU LIKE TO PRETEND.

  298. Hounded
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    Vincentious,

    I agree and would be quite happy to see season 5 return to a state of mystery and intrigue more like season 1 rather than the all out action that season 4 will be. However this is Game of Thrones and people are going to be disappointed if there isn’t at least 1 epic event and 1 shocking death. I think these should be Jon’s stabbing and Daznak’s Pit

    sunspear,

    I really like FFC and DWD but there is quite a bit of filler. Nimble Dick?? Asos worked fine being split across 2 seasons because it had epic moments around its mid-point to act as a finale for season 3 – Red Wedding, Queenscrown, Dany takes Yunkai etc. But if FFC and DWD are combined and spread out between 2 seasons where would you see season 5 ending? What character arcs would be completed? What epic event would be the finale? As much as I like FFC and DWD the only finale worthy things are at the very end of DWD – Daznak’s Pit, Jons stabbing, Quentyn freeing the dragons, Theon escaping Winterfell with Jeyne…

  299. Mr Fixit
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    sunspear:
    Ok, three seasons for AFFC/ADWD is ridiculous and will never happen in a million years, but anyone saying we’re going to get the Battle of Meereen by the end of Season 5 is more delusional than Martin is.

    AFFC/ADWD can easily fill up all of season 5 and most of season 6. People who think they are going axe entire plotlines to finish faster are kidding themselves. THERE IS NOT AS MUCH FILLER IN THESE BOOKS AS YOU LIKE TO PRETEND.

    Since it’s pretty clear that the show is going to last only 7 seasons, you propose to cram entire TWoW and ADoS in 1.5 seasons?

  300. Rygar
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    I have no doubt that D&D would love 8-9 seasons to finish their adaptation. They are fans like us and want to give the show the justice it deserves to adapt as faithful to the source material as possible. However, its not their call. HBO is only giving them seven, which to HBO execs, is the smartest financial decision. Yes, the final three seasons will be rushed, yes we will get more Battles of the Whispering Wood (remember that one), yes we will get more LF like warping around from place to place, yes characters and plot lines from Books 4&5 will be omitted and or morphed into existing ones. I just hope it is done in a way that creates a cohesive story, and not leave us beguiled and unfullfilled like S3 of Deadwood.

    This is why no company will make The Dark Tower. Penis penis penis.

  301. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    Rygar,

    But do we really know the contracts were made for seven seasons? I remember hearing it was 6 seasons… Which would suck for HBO.

  302. Siobhán Mooney
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    I feel bad for GRRM. He said that he doesn’t enjoy working to deadlines, but that’s what he has to do. It’s kinda counterproductive, because the writing is more likely to be better if he’s actually enjoying himself, but that doesn’t make the need go away. :(

  303. Rygar
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    They wouldn’t renegotiate between 6-7 for all major cast members that have been around since the pilot. If the contracts are for six, there is probably a clause that let’s them extend one more season. Or they will renegotiate only a couple of regulars.

  304. cosca
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    Rygar,

    More LF warping around the place is a good thing. GRRM has gotten bogged down in travelogue since AGOT. Catelyn went from Winterfell in chapter 14, to KL in chapter 18, because that’s what was needed for the plot to move forward.

  305. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    sunspear,

    They say 7 seasons. Now I agree 8 would be optimal, but as Rygar says there might be reconstructing issues involved or issues we as mere fans can’t understand. 7 seasons it is, and that means that D&D will HAVE to cut, rearrange and alter the existing source material significantly in order to fit what should have taken four seasons into three. The easiest way to do that is simply to remove the minor storylines. I shudder at the possibility of waking up one day to see the headline “Dorne was cut”. But it might happen, and we should prepare for it.

  306. Ysen
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    the season that’s about to debut covers the second half of the third book

    I wish people would stop saying that. Season 3 was more like two-third of ASoS.
    If you look at season 3′s ending and check what’s left in book3, you see that there’s not much left.
    Arya have 13 chapters in ASoS, only 2 left after season 3.
    Bran have none left.
    They already used stuff from ADwD for Theon.

  307. Rygar
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    cosca,

    I agree. As long as it is done in a cohesive way as they did in season two.

  308. Sameafnir
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    Morgan:
    He needs to stop worrying about all of his little side projects and just finish the book already. There’s no way they’re going to spend 3 seasons onAFFC and ADWD. Plus, does he not realize that many of the characters’ storylines are going start going into AFFC/ADWD territory by the end of this season? I agree he is screwed if the sixth book is not out before season 5 airs.

    Realistically, there’s no way he finishes the series before the show catches up to him unless he’s already finished with TWOW and is just messing with us.

    Agreed, absolutely. GRRM needs to stop messing with readers and get on with it for real. TV guys won t wait for him, that s for sure.

    Haven t and won t buy a book of his until this project is finally finished. Patience only goes that far …

  309. tysnow
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Rygar,

    HBO see’s GoT and Westeros as a cash cow, they will be more than happy to see GoT extend to 8 or 9 seasons, if the viewership numbers continue as well as the quality and critical acclaim.
    I am always hoping for ten seasons, a nice round 100 episode series (but figure it will be 8 with a two part season 8); who cares if Maisie and Bran keep getting older, D&D can adjust the story around it, and probably are already planning to do such.

  310. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Wow, when the show catches up press interviews will be plagues with those questions. GRRM will likely descend into self loathing from every time they ask him how he feels a about it.

    The best thing that could happen if GRRM doesn’t pull a surprising move and releases TWOW before season 5 is that he takes so long that it becomes obvious he won’t finish in time. That way, he could take a more active role in the show. Maybe he could write two or three episodes in the last season. That way some quotes at least would be in there…

  311. JamesL
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:46 am | Permalink
  312. Ismael Ávila
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    loco73:
    Wow, yet another thread about this issue! We get to vomit on one another again with our “insightful analysis” about a topic we’ve discussed ad-nauseam, one which we can’t do anything about.We can either stop watching GoT and give up reading the novels…or do the opposite, suck it up and hope for the best…

    Other than that, short of anyone here having a direct impact or input on the show, everything else is just a collection of musings and educated guesses, which I’ll grant you are entertaining for a while, but only a very, very short while!

    Can we just look forward to Season Four and enjoy that…instead of what has by now become little more than pointless bickering?!

    God, I miss Winter/Phil’s departure already….

    Well said…

  313. S Glass
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    Everyone seems to have very strong opinions about the last two books. Obviously they weren’t as good as SOS, but they were no slower than the first halves of GOT or COK. This show is a fantasy, sure, and it always has big climaxes at the end, but the majority of it is just conversations between various characters. The quality of the dialogue is what makes it as good as it is. I think there’s enough material in books 4 and 5 to pull two seasons of quality drama from. And HBO has dealt with shows that undergo extreme changes of focus (like the Wire), so I think the focus on new characters can go quite well. The parts of FFC centred around the Iron Islands and Dorne were some of my favourites. Brienne’s storyline went nowhere until the last chapter but, otherwise, they should be able to get a couple of good seasons, with a combination of existing scenes and newly written ones. The time to worry is when they do catch up. They’re obviously great writers, but do they have the ability to imitate GRRM’s prowess with intricate plotting? I hope it turns out well.

  314. Bathory Bane
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    Seriously, George – I love you – but you’re delusional. Sit down and write already. It’s entirely possible to have the whole thing finished ahead of the series, with all of the storylines wrapped up, but you need to sit down and start writing. We’ve been waiting how long now?

    Hire some help if you need it, just please, forget about other things for a while and write. Pretty sure you have amazing and talented people in your fandom willing to volunteer their time to get this done. Call out, get things rolling. It’s not only about not having to have the show wait, get cancelled or stoop to fillers (which I doubt HBO would ever agree to do) – it’s also about all of us waiting for many, many years to read how it all ends. If you don’t want other people finishing your story, which is the only real alternative in my opinion, if it comes to that, you need to sit down and write. Dan and David are more than capable to wrap the storylines up, even without all the details and HBO would probably be very inclined to take that option as well instead of having to wait, or have the show go downhill. They will want to ride the wave to the end while it’s still gathering momentum.

    For the love of all, George, write the damn books already.

  315. Rygar
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    tysnow,

    As do the actors. They know how popular and how much this show makes. And they will milk those udders for as much as their agents can squeeze if they sign new contracts. As would you or I.

  316. David
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    tysnow,

    idt HBO will be happy about renegotiate ALL the contracts. everybody keeps talking about the Fab5(Peter, Lena,Nik, Kit and Emilia) but there’re the rest of the cast as well. the kids will want a raise, Ian Glen, Gillen, Hill, Dormer, etc…. they will want a bigger paycheck, and who knows if HBO is willing to pay it??

  317. sherry
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    Sword of the Morning:
    Season 5 predictions, episode-by-episode:


    1: Intro to Dorne. Beginning of Kingsmoot. Arya and Tyrion land across the Narrow Sea. Meereen killings become untenable. Awkwardness on the Wall.
    2: End of Kingsmoot. Arya begins her training. Tyrion starts down the river, meets Connington. Cersei as Queen Regent asserts herself. Samwell and Gilly set sail for Oldtown.
    3: Dany is convinced to marry Hizhdar. Arianne tries to steal Myrcella. Victarion and Euron take the Shield Islands. Davos dispatched to Manderly.
    4: Victarion sets off for Dany. Jaime goes to deal with the Tullys. Tyrion has a creepy encounter on the river. Dany’s marriage to Hizhdar. Davos meets Manderly.
    5: Arianne is imprisoned. Intro to Quentyn. Samwell runs into Arya in Braavos. Alayne and Littlefinger leave the Vale. Brienne encounters the Gravedigger.
    6: Cersei is imprisoned. Arya gives the gift to Dareon. Jon takes in the Wildlings. Stannis sets off to take Winterfell as Manderly arrives there.
    7: Tyrion runs into Jorah. Arya goes blind. Samwell and Gilly bump uglies. Jon sends Mance on a mission. Cersei pleads with the High Sparrow.
    8: Tyrion and Jorah set sail for Meereen. Killings at Winterfell as winter hits. Killings in the Riverlands by the Brotherhood. Plague hits outside of Meereen.
    9: Tyrion arrives in Meereen. Connington arrives in Westeros. Cersei’s walk of shame. Victarion sacrifices virgins at sea. Brienne gets taken by the Brotherhood. Dany flies out of the fighting pit on Drogon.
    10: Barristan tries to hold on to power for Dany. Quentyn gets burned. Sam and Gilly arrive in Oldtown. Brienne finds Jaime in the Riverlands. “Arya” smuggled out of Winterfell. Arya regains her sight. Jon gets stabbed. Winter comes for Kevan Lannister.

    No clue what happens to Bran.

    This is an awesome post, I agree with this timeline for ADWD. Then, 3 seasons(6, 7, 8) for TWOW, and ADOS because I think TWOW is going to have some great storylines which need to be expressed in detail. Winter(and the walkers)will have came! :)

  318. House Mormont
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    I think what we all need is a lil progress update from GRRM, he has ignored his fanbase since ADWD, and that’s understandable considering how much hate he got from the delay of ADWD, but that was three years ago, and there is a lot of dissent among the ranks.

    Unless that progress update ruins all our dreams, and then there’ll be another 500 rants

    I remember after reading all the books, maybe only 6 months ago, and I was so hopeful of twow… and now… well

  319. JonSnow17
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    So because the Fat Man can’t write faster to save his life, we have to endure two seasons of filler trash with some good stuff trown in it, fuck no !

  320. House Mormont
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    cosca: More LF warping around the place is a good thing. GRRM has gotten bogged down in travelogue since AGOT. Catelyn went from Winterfell in chapter 14, to KL in chapter 18, because that’s what was needed for the plot to move forward.

    Very true, and she got between the Eyrie and Robb’s camp between chapters, and between Riverrun and Bitterbridge between chapters… it was a simpler time.

    Judging by Arianne’s two sample chapters… there’s a lot more travelogue in store. Oh lord Danaery’s has to go from the DS to Meereen to Westeros with possible stops at Volantis and Pentos all in one book.

  321. Dunk The Lunk
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    Not saying that a lot of the criticism about Georges comments is unfounded, because this dilemma is concerning, but there are some things that get background treatment in the books that could be expanded in the show. Something like Osha and Rickons journeys after leaving Bran. D and D have also had no problem creating made up scenes/plots that add to the content in the books. For instance, I cant imagine that theyd introduce LS at the end of this season just to ignore her for all of season 5 until the last episode.. There is a ton of potential for that character that I dont think GRRM really capitalized on yet. I think theres more stuff like that that can be written ingo the show that could beef up the affc/dwd chunk of the show in a satisfying way.

  322. House Mormont
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    Dunk The Lunk,

    The show could make adwd/affc more interesting, they could make the Lords Declarant surrounding and starving the Eyrie dramatic, they can make Stannis raising the mountain clans super triumphant, they can show Rickon, Osha and Davos with the unicorn riding cannibals, they can show what the White Walkers are doing in Hardhome, they can make more of Arya and Bran’s training. They can make up whatever Varys has been doing. But there are big restrictions such as actor contracts, and the inevitability of the decline in ratings for any show that’s in it’s 6/7/8th+ season, and the grand scheme of Ice and Fire still won’t even be visible.
    Not to mention the show is renowned and almost limited by it’s “episode 9 moments” and without that it’d lose the word of mouth praise that has made it this successful

  323. sherry
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    I don’t know if I just imagined it, or if I saw it written somewhere but isn’t TWOW going to be the thickest(most pages and content)book of the series? Makes sense because most of the characters, major and minor, have to complete their storylines, climaxes, and arcs in this book.

  324. Lord Davos
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    JonSnow17,

    There is nothing you can do, it would happen eitherway.

  325. Lord Davos
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    sherry,

    Yeah, to get trough it in 10 episodes is bullshit.

  326. Satin
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    I knew I could count on you!

    I think Deadwood S3 is what would happen if HBO promised 8 seasons, and they’d spent half of S5 on developing Arianne, the Greyjoy Boys, and the Griffs, only to get cancelled before S6.

    And then Margaery would get to shoot Roose Bolton, but miss the vital parts.

  327. Steel_Wind
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    Alex Greyjoy:

    There are whole episodes in [The Walking Dead] where absolutely nothing happens…

    Yes there are. The second season started off with three of them. The show lost me as a consequence and I NEVER came back to watch it again. I did not care enough and was not invested enough to bother.

    While I do not project my likes/dislikes upon the entire potential audience on Planet Earth, it is worthwhile noting that story progression is a general theme in the long fiction format. Without it, and unpredictable forays into self-contained episodic television, people will stop watching.

    With books, it isn’t THAT different. It’s simply that the reader’s “squeal point” tends to be somewhat more forgiving after they are invested in the series. But only to a point. The number of readers Jordan lost around Book 6 of a Wheel of Time lead to a MARKED decrease in sales in the balance of the series. Readers know when they are being gamed.

    My point: in the long fiction format, without real story progression, people lose interest. ALWAYS. The markers and trigger points for that reaction in the audience differ depending on the medium, but the rule itself does not change.

  328. JonSnow17
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    @Lord Davos Says who ? You have to accept that not anyone worships the Fat Man’s latest excuse of books and don’t want to ruin the show’s momentum with mostly garbage plotlines except a few ones and boring god awful travelogues , maybe if you stop kissing his ass like a few others here do you will open your eyes to the truth .

  329. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    Dunk The Lunk,

    Lady Stoneheart is a done deal. Brienne will most likely get to her at the end of season 4, in an adaption of the ASOS Epilogue through her point of view. Which leaves Brienne’s scenes with the BWB in her last chapter (likely to be expanded) for early in season 5. My guess is:
    Episode 1: Brienne talks with Thoros, gets judged by Stoneheart and gets hanged. She shouts “sword” at the end of the episode.
    Episode 2: Brienne is brought forth to Stoneheart, she pledges to her she will bring her Jamie Lannister as long as Pod is unharmed. They set off. This is roughly where Jamie leaves King’s Landing, too.
    Episode 3-9: she probably won’t feature much, but when/if we’ll see scenes from AFFC that didn’t make it to her journey in season 4. The gravedigger in Quiet Isle could happen, for instance. We could also get a Stoneheart scene in the midseason, maybe her killing Freys or her speaking with Thoros or something.
    Episode 10: Jamie and Brienne meet at Riverrun and she convinces him to join her.

  330. sherry
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos:
    sherry,

    Yeah, to get trough it in 10 episodes is bullshit.

    Just my opinion but I think it might take at least 15 episodes, or maybe even 2 seasons to do TWOW. ADOS will probably be like an epilogue, just sum up what happens to the characters ultimately, wrap everything up. That could be completed in 5 or 6 episodes. So, I guess the argument lies with what to do with AFFC/ADWD. I think those two could be done in 15 episodes. Add all these numbers up, and its 4 more seasons after season 4, 8 all together. Personally, I don’t see how it can be done to satisfaction with less than 8.

  331. TonyGen
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    I don’t know why D&D’s comments are causing so much commotion. They have said years ago that they thought the show would run for 8 seasons, now they are saying 7 but perhaps still 8. They have been very clear from the beginning the “show must go on”, a quote they repeated on numerous occasions.

    I accepted a while ago that it is pretty inevitable the narrative of the show will pass (and become rmore altered) from the narrative of the book. I enjoy both the show and the books and I will enjoy seeing the show finish and eventually compare to how GRRM finishes his books when they are finished.

    And I’d rather him finish them RIGHT than rushing to go ahead of the show something I think is not necessary and is a lost cause.

  332. Khal-A-Bunga
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    This thread…

    http://imageshack.com/a/img801/8617/ll7.gif

    I say let the networks execs, D&D, Cogman, and Martin worry about how this is all going to play out. All of them want the same thing, ultimately – to finish their respective telling’s of A Song of Ice & Fire in a way that is satisfying on a critical, commercial, and personal level.

    For the rest of us; we get to enjoy the fruits of that labor. Or bitch about it on the internet. Or both.

  333. The Bastard
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    The more I think about it, 7 seasons seems right. We have a good idea of what is in Season 4. It will include some story lines from Books 4 & 5. This will only leave 1 more season to cover the rest of books 4 & 5 without making any sort of sacrifices to the quality of the story. I think you can write this in stone: D&D will use up all of the first 5 books in the first 5 seasons.

    There is no way D&D will do 2 seasons for TWOW & 2 seasons for ADOS. So 9 seasons or more is out of the question.

    The debate now becomes how long will it go. There are 3 logical options:

    1) 7 Seasons, 70 Episodes
    2) 7 Seasons, ~75 Episodes, with season 7 being longer.
    3) 8 Seasons, 80 Episodes

    We, the fans, will be getting one of these three options. There is no possible way it goes beyond 80 episodes.

    Personally I think we will get Option #2. They will show 10 episodes for the last season and then 6 months later we will get the last 5 episodes as a “movie” like event to conclude the series. It will give D&D a little more room to play with for the final book but still not mess with the contracts too much.

    2017 is going to be a great year to finally find out how all of this ends.

  334. sir_faps_alot
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    Yup. He’s officially gone senile.

  335. House Mormont
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    wait doesn’t Pod die? He isn’t with BriBri when she meets Jaime, and isn’t she the last to get hanged?

  336. Lord Davos
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    sherry,

    15 episodes for Feast and Dance, 15 for Winds and 10 for Dream.

  337. Satin
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont:
    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    wait doesn’t Pod die? He isn’t with BriBri when she meets Jaime, and isn’t she the last to get hanged?

    Not quite. She is thinking about him the whole time, and she shouts her word when she sees his feet leave the ground. It’s pretty obvious from the way it is written that Pod is the reason she decides to foreswear her honour, so if Pod were dead, she wouldn’t have agreed to capture Jaime for the BWB. He’ll be alive, if probably with a sore throat.

  338. Lord Davos
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    JonSnow17,

    Calm your tits, your still not changing nothing.
    And you go throw garbage in the trash, so clean my plate when your at it.

  339. Suzaku
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    I don’t honestly see D&D being able to finish the series in seven seasons without either deviating heavily from the books or cutting just a ton of material.

    It’s already taken them four seasons to cover just the first three books (about 2500 pages). Why would they want to try and fit the next four books (over 3000 pages) into just three seasons?

    With Feast and Dance combined you have a pretty exciting overall narrative that could easily last for 2-3 fairly dense seasons. The showrunners can also punch it up and incorporate completely new elements, for example using Bran’s powers to peer through time to present ‘flashbacks’ into key historical moments like the Tower of Joy or the Battle of the Trident. And who knows how long Winds and Dream will be when all is said and done.

    If Martin can get Winds out next year, I think he’s got a chance of finishing Dream before the series concludes, but it’ll be a tight finish, regardless.

  340. Alan
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    Caravaggio: Strangely enough, REDDIT. The ASOIAF subreddit has a good community with a healthy level of self-awareness. The plus is you can downvote shitty, no-merit comments so you can hide them from the site.

    I used to go here regularly too, but I realized it tended to be a vortex of negativity (Seven hells, the threads in the articles about Oberyn’s casting and Finn Jones’ inconsequential quip about Loras not having enough gay sex) so I stopped going. The ASOIAF reddit sub is much more fun.

    Or, if you want someplace really fun and much more innocent, I recommend you lurk in the “Completely Unspoiled Speculation” Game of Thrones forum over at Television Without Pity. It’s a community of show-onlies who’ve pledged to not read the books. It’s wonderful to see them speculate and focus on the story only, removed of any of the ridiculous meta-drama that comes from news about the books.

    Thanks, Caravaggio! That is surprising. I’ve avoided REDDIT largely because of the time suck it would be if I ever got into it, but I’ll have to check it out.

    I like the TWOP unsullied thread, but since I can’t interact, it’s not quite the same.

  341. Strider
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    I have no doubt that D&D would love 8-9 seasons to finish their adaptation. They are fans like us and want to give the show the justice it deserves to adapt as faithful to the source material as possible. However, its not their call. HBO is only giving them seven, which to HBO execs, is the smartest financial decision. Yes, the final three seasons will be rushed, yes we will get more Battles of the Whispering Wood (remember that one), yes we will get more LF like warping around from place to place, yes characters and plot lines from Books 4&5will be omitted and or morphed into existing ones. I just hope it is done in a way that creates a cohesive story, and not leave us beguiled and unfullfilled like S3 of Deadwood.

    This is why no company will make The Dark Tower.Penis penis penis.

    I hate this comment! HATE IT! It is the most coherent one I’ve read yet. Except for Mr. Whitehead’s at Westeros regarding how HBO probably put their foot down and said 7 when D&D said 8 before. How is that for irony Rygar?!

    Loved your FINALE! You can’t really beat that!

  342. Omar Brown
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Sword of the Morning:
    Season 5 predictions, episode-by-episode:


    1: Intro to Dorne. Beginning of Kingsmoot. Arya and Tyrion land across the Narrow Sea. Meereen killings become untenable. Awkwardness on the Wall.
    2: End of Kingsmoot. Arya begins her training. Tyrion starts down the river, meets Connington. Cersei as Queen Regent asserts herself. Samwell and Gilly set sail for Oldtown.
    3: Dany is convinced to marry Hizhdar. Arianne tries to steal Myrcella. Victarion and Euron take the Shield Islands. Davos dispatched to Manderly.
    4: Victarion sets off for Dany. Jaime goes to deal with the Tullys. Tyrion has a creepy encounter on the river. Dany’s marriage to Hizhdar. Davos meets Manderly.
    5: Arianne is imprisoned. Intro to Quentyn. Samwell runs into Arya in Braavos. Alayne and Littlefinger leave the Vale. Brienne encounters the Gravedigger.
    6: Cersei is imprisoned. Arya gives the gift to Dareon. Jon takes in the Wildlings. Stannis sets off to take Winterfell as Manderly arrives there.
    7: Tyrion runs into Jorah. Arya goes blind. Samwell and Gilly bump uglies. Jon sends Mance on a mission. Cersei pleads with the High Sparrow.
    8: Tyrion and Jorah set sail for Meereen. Killings at Winterfell as winter hits. Killings in the Riverlands by the Brotherhood. Plague hits outside of Meereen.
    9: Tyrion arrives in Meereen. Connington arrives in Westeros. Cersei’s walk of shame. Victarion sacrifices virgins at sea. Brienne gets taken by the Brotherhood. Dany flies out of the fighting pit on Drogon.
    10: Barristan tries to hold on to power for Dany. Quentyn gets burned. Sam and Gilly arrive in Oldtown. Brienne finds Jaime in the Riverlands. “Arya” smuggled out of Winterfell. Arya regains her sight. Jon gets stabbed. Winter comes for Kevan Lannister.

    No clue what happens to Bran.

    This. Right on the money…and GRRM’s living nightmare that the show will be completely caught up with the books by season 5. The man is SO screwed.

  343. JonSnow17
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Listen, douche, if you want to live in denial, that’s not my problem but don’t come bitch at the producers when you realise that you were wrong .

  344. Jon Blackfyre
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    If it took them a full season to cover ACOK then it should take at least two for feastdance. There no way and at least 3 seasons to cover TWOW/ADOS but there’s no way HBO lets them take 9 seasons. They will rush them forcing them to drop way to much out of the story and speed up important plots that will do better to be drawn out. Everybody will keep bitching that George can’t keep up. I hope he doesn’t ruin his own story by rushing himself. I’d rather he didn’t feel rushed but instead was just immersed in his story like he was with the first three novels. I hope the pressure of keeping up with the show doesn’t ruin his story in the long run.

  345. Silver of Wyman
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    JonSnow17,

    How about you show some respect for the author. He is the reason we have this series after all.

  346. Don Diego Decordova
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    Recently George flipped up one of his replica “Valyrian” coins into the air to see what it would bind. When he caught it and opened up his hand, to his surprise it did not read, “Valar Dohaeris” nor did it read “Valar Morghulis”, but instead the coin bore a sigil of a helm with a dagger on either side that read the inscription “EID *MAR”.
    Write like the wind George !

  347. Lord Davos
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    JonSnow17,

    I don care about the show really, it is a no win situation from this point.

  348. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    Strider,

    Yeah, Rygar put the nail in the coffin in that post. D&D are probably disappointed about the seven season thing too. They probably planned for 8 originally, but HBO said “do seven” and they said “but eight would be better” and HBO said “do seven” and D&D said “it will have to be rushed and we’ll have to change a lot if we do it in seven seasons…” And HBO said “I’m sure you’ll do a fantastic job. Don’t fuck it up!” closing the door in their face. Shite. Dragon shite. Damned actor contracts…

  349. Silver of Wyman
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos:
    sherry,

    15 episodes for Feast and Dance, 15 for Winds and 10 for Dream.

    This. If WoW is out before season 5, then GRRM has max 3 years to finish DoS, which is doable. Although GRRM has stated, that DoS is as large as SoS and WoW. So in my opinion season 8 should be made a little longer (like 13 episodes).

  350. Dnis
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Omar Brown,

    Yep. If anything, Sword’s post understates how easily Books 4 and 5 can be adapted to fit a single season. Three things about the post jump out at me:

    1. Tyrion: Captured in Episode 7? He could easily meet fAegon & Company in Pentos (Episodes 1-2), get captured in Pentos (Ep. 3), and arrive in Meereen by Ep. 6 without the show losing anything of consequence.

    2. Dany: So she marries Hidzahr in Episode 4, then does absolutely nothing for 3 full episodes? Why not marry Hizdahr in Episode 1 (we’re already meeting him, and probably the Sons of the Harpy, this season) and have Daznak’s Pit in Episode 4? Do we lose anything?

    3. The Vale: Notice that Sansa and Littlefinger are already done with their ADWD material by mid-season. That sounds about right.

    The only reason why the show can’t be deep into tWoW (in Essos, at least, and for Bran and Sansa) by the end of Season 5 is if the entire Greyjoy stuff is included, from the Kingsmoot to the Reader to plundering the Riverlands to the interminable time spent on Victarion’s boat. Otherwise, they can get to Meereen by Episode 9 (if we need them at all) and we most certainly can have the Battle of Meereen and various and sundry other tWoW activities

    I, for one, think Season 5 can actually be a quite satisfying season that moves the story forward, provided D&D are comfortable delving into unpublished material. And then 20 more episodes to wrap up the show would be quite enough.

  351. JonSnow17
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos You claim you don’t care about the show yet you are here commentating on a fansite about the show mostly, why don’t you run back to Censoros then ?

  352. House Mormont
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    Satin,

    okay so she screams sword to save pod, that doesnt mean she succeeded, this is Westeros after all

  353. JonSnow17
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    Silver of Wyman Just because he made the series doesn’t mean jack shit, if he doesn’t respect his readers enough and treats them as someones that he can fool by giving him money for shitty, uncomplete books not to mention waiting a trillion years then he doesn’t deserve my respect. That’s my opinion on it .

  354. Lord Davos
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    JonSnow17,

    I enjoy it. I am distanced from it. Else i would compare it to the books, and bitch about how it wont compare to the books. It dont do me no good what the producers choose, its just another adaption.
    Why would i go to Censeros? Never been there, never saw it, never touched it. Blah

  355. Satin
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    And yet there she is, in ADWD, coming for Jaime. If Pod had died, she wouldn’t have done that. So he lived. It never occured to me to think he was dead, it seemed so logical what was happening. Why did you think Brienne agreed to lure Jaime to the BWB if you thought he died?

  356. Abyss
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    OT: Anybody need a recap of of the first three seasons? :D

  357. Lord Davos
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    JonSnow17,

    Its not an opinion to say he doesnt respect his readers, that is you feeling disrespected by an artist. Its like being offended by south park.
    I have a mutual respect with Grrm, i dont bitch about art, i bitch about craftship, like in tv shows. I can bitch about Walking Dead all day long, but i dont bitch about authors.

  358. Eric Niewohner
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    I started reading these books back in 1996 when they first came out and the first three books came out two years apart and each book was better than the first culminating in ASOS, which is the best book of the series. Then it took him four years to write AFOC and seven years to write ADWD. It is interesting to note that the three books he wrote in two years are far and away better than the two books it took him eleven years to write. Only the most pie in the sky reader thinks the last two books are anywhere near the quality of the first three.

    I have stated this before his books are crumbling under the weight of too many storylines. It is patently ridiculous that he is able to introduce, in the 5th book, a Targaryen bastard who makes it across the narrow sea in half a book and Dany is still on the other side after five!!

    I am all for Martin having a life but it is the huge success of the first three books and the HBO series that have allowed him to go wherever he wants to go, whenever he wants to go, buy a theater and be asked to edit and or contribute to every Fantasy anthology out there. He needs to focus in on finishing the series and maybe cut back a bit on having to go to every convention and every signing. It is clear that the books are much better when he gets them done in a two year period versus a much longer period.

    As far as Martin being able to finish the books before they catch up there is no way with his schedule as it stands unless he truly makes finishing the series his #1 priority and I don’t think that is the case right now. He only writes when he is at home and he is barely at home just read not a blog to see that.

    When you think that it took him eleven years to write the two weakest books of the series and only six to write the three best you would think that would knock some sense into his head, but no we are now closing in on three years since ADWD was being published, July of this year, and there has been nothing put out about a possible release date for the sixth book. I work in the book industry and we have heard nothing at all.

    Love the series but season four will be done before he finishes the sixth book and really at most it will take two seasons to cover book four and five and then another for book 6 so that would give him three years to write book seven and that aint going to happen.

  359. House Mormont
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    Satin,

    On the contrary, it makes no sense to lure Jaime to his death just to save Pod. How is Jaime worth less than Pod, it was her love/affection/admiration for Jaime when she was unconscious that got her on trial on the first place, and she swore an oath to keep Jaime safe.
    The only believably Brienne motive imo is to honour Catelyn’s vow, and to survive.

  360. The Bastard
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    Suzaku:
    I don’t honestly see D&D being able to finish the series in seven seasons without either deviating heavily from the books or cutting just a ton of material.

    It’s already taken them four seasons to cover just the first three books (about 2500 pages). Why would they want to try and fit the next four books (over 3000 pages) into just three seasons?

    With Feast and Dance combined you have a pretty exciting overall narrative that could easily last for 2-3 fairly dense seasons. The showrunners can also punch it up and incorporate completely new elements, for example using Bran’s powers to peer through time to present ‘flashbacks’ into key historical moments like the Tower of Joy or the Battle of the Trident. And who knows how long Winds and Dream will be when all is said and done.

    If Martin can get Winds out next year, I think he’s got a chance of finishing Dream before the series concludes, but it’ll be a tight finish, regardless.

    Saying that it took D&D 4 seasons to do 3 books is the biggest false claiming being spread read now.

    In 4 season, D&D will be well into parts of AFFC & ADWD. With not as many events happening in those last 2 books, the correct thing to say is:

    D&D will have covered 5 books in 5 seasons after 2015 is over with.

    That is a more accurate description of the current and future pacing of the show. The only unknown element is how much content will be covered in the last 2 books. And guess who knows that? GRRM and D&D.

  361. House Mormont
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    Eric Niewohner: I started reading these books back in 1996 when they first came out and the first three books came out two years apart and each book was better than the first culminating in ASOS, which is the best book of the series. Then it took him four years to write AFOC and seven years to write ADWD. It is interesting to note that the three books he wrote in two years are far and away better than the two books it took him eleven years to write. Only the most pie in the sky reader thinks the last two books are anywhere near the quality of the first three.

    This, GRRM produces the most beautifully worded and inspirational quotes straight off the top of his head in interviews, his quotes on politics and power, women, gays and hope in dark situations resonate with me to this day. It’s no wonder that shoving him in a room for years on end makes all that raw talent slip away

  362. Vincentious
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    I don’t think there’s any contract binding anything to 7 seasons or we should discount in there being more. I remember a fairly recent article with one of the heads of HBO (or ‘the’ head) who talked about the show going on as long as people are watching. That seemed pretty open to me. If I can dig out that article I will.

    My take is that they will give the show its due, and it’s not just any other show, frankly this should be treated separate to most standard fare when talking about seasons and contract negotiation, and not compared to Sopranos or anything else on HBO. It’s progressively got more successful, the cast is greater than any other, the locations..and HBO seem to be ploughing more and more money into it.

    If actors want some more money to round things up for s8 or s9 if goes that far, HBO is going to for pay it. At the least they seem to value quality, and won’t want to recast anybody major or end the show before its time. And unless the show goes down the tubes in being the big money spinner it is right now, that’s the way things will be.

  363. Wastrel
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    I know this has been said before, but… that interview is just shockingly delusional. Not just optimistic, actually clinically delusional. Does he not actually know what’s in his books? Has he not read them? Don’t get me wrong, I really liked A Dance With Dragons, I thought it one of the best books of the series, I liked the slower, more atmospheric, psychological approach. But TV is quicker than books; it’s harder to put in filler. Unless they introduce a whole bunch of additional subplots (and there are enough already) or have hours of long slow lingering scenary shots, there is no way anyone could make a passably non-soporific three seasons out of those two books. That’s a thirty-hour film! Fifteen two-hour-long films! Every Bond film from 1960 to 1990 put together. The complete extended director’s cut of the Lord of the Rings… three times over. The whole of Deadwood. “I, Claudius”, “Edge of Darkness”, and “Brideshead Revisited” all put together and probably still time to squeeze in “Gone With the Wind”. The whole of “The World At War”, one and a half times. Or just, of course, the whole of GOT aired to this point.

    What does he think he’s been writing!?

    In reality, they’ll include some of the material in season four, and most likely they’ll be done with it by the end of season five – indeed, I’m not sure they’ll even fill up all of season five with it.

    And then there’s getting those seasons. HBO seem pretty firm on 7 seasons. Maybe they may go for 8? GRRM’s plan, however, has to assume 9 seasons as a minimum, and that’s assuming they don’t need to split either of the last two books. Does he think they’ll just give him what he wants whatever they’re saying now, or has nobody been telling him the news?

  364. David R Witanowski
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    To be honest, it wouldn’t bother me at all if the show completely overtook the novels by Season Six. I watched Season One before picking up the novel A Game of Thrones, and it didn’t diminish my enjoyment of reading the book after having watched the same events in the show. It was a lot of fun for me to realize that as complex and big as the show is, the novels are even more so! I realize I’m probably in the minority here, and admittedly I’m not one of the folks who has been waiting since the books first came out to see where this is all headed. I totally understand where those fans are coming from, but personally, as long as GRRM is available to work with the HBO writers on wrapping it up I’ll be happy!

  365. KG
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    There is a certain amount of dark amusement watching someone slowly imperil his life’s work and legacy day by day … entirely by his own actions.

    It’s like a real life Cersei POV chapter.

  366. The Bastard
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    Vincentious,

    It is not going to go 9 seasons. It will go 8 at the most.

    Based on the key plot points being covered in Season 4 and what is left for Season 5, D&D will be done with all 5 books by the end of season 5.

    This means to get to 9 seasons, they would have to do 2 seasons for each of the next two books. That is not going to happen.

    It will be 7 or 8 seasons or some weird hybrid in-between. There is almost a zero chance it will go beyond 80 episodes now.

  367. Lord Davos
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    Eric Niewohner,

    It took him nine years on the tree first, why does everyone forget this? AGOT took five years to write, 1991 to 1996. A pause in 93-94. Another one in 2006 and 2011. 2001 was mostly scrapped material. 8 years on the first three, 8 on the two next.
    91, 92, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 00.
    02, 03, 04, 05, 07, 08, 09, 10.
    16 writing years for 5 books. My bet its done in 2019.
    If you read not a blog, you would see Son of Kong is the one left, he got no tours for the next year, there is less posts.

    Imabout to leave this pleace, Grrm is you peoples next Justin Bieber.

  368. Omar Brown
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    Dnis:

    I, for one, think Season 5 can actually be a quite satisfying season that moves the story forward, provided D&D are comfortable delving into unpublished material.And then 20 more episodes to wrap up the show would be quite enough.

    I think it’s hilarious that people are saying “WE NEED 15 EPISODES FOR WINDS!”… a book no one has read yet. For all we know that book is 90% wild goose chases like the last one.

    The way D&D are cutting the fat is awesome for all…except GRRM…he is boned.

  369. JonSnow17
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    Vincentious I love how you people that have this false hope that the show will last more seasons than 7 (maybe you are Martin’s relative or something) completely ignore the facts and evidence that other people have posted of why that WILL NOT HAPPEN . You keep saying the same shit, oh it brings money, oh it does this, it does that, while it may be true that it makes tons of money, those money have to be put back into the show anway because each season is more expensive than the other and the actors will likely want more money as well, it’s obvious some of you people don’t know a thing about economics and think money just falls through the fucking sky .

  370. Ozymandias
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    Is George R.R Martin trying to ruin the show ?

  371. Satin
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    It’s not about comparing Pod’s “worth” to Jaime’s. It’s because Pod is innocent and doesn’t deserve to die, just so Brienne gets to stay honorable (and dead, too). He is the reason she said “sword,” and he is the reason she’s meeting Jaime, mark my word for it. As for whether it means Jaime’s death – I don’t think even Brienne has to think that. As long as Jaime gets a chance to talk, there is still a chance he finds a way out of this. Surely a better chance than Pod has surviving without Brienne breaking her promise.

    Keep your word or protect the innocent – it’s the same dilemma all the knights in the books face. If Brienne keeps her word and let’s an innocent die, what is her chivalry worth then?

  372. JonSnow17
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    @KG I feel you and Rygar are one of the few who actually gets it and make humor along with it. If only more people were like you this site would be better .

  373. The Bastard
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos:
    Eric Niewohner,

    It took him nine years on the tree first, why does everyone forget this? AGOT took five years to write, 1991 to 1996. A pause in 93-94. Another one in 2006 and 2011. 2001 was mostly scrapped material. 8 years on the first three, 8 on the two next.
    91, 92, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 00.
    02, 03, 04, 05, 07, 08, 09, 10.
    16 writing years for 5 books. My bet its done in 2019.
    If you read not a blog, you would see Son of Kong is the one left, he got no tours for the next year, there is less posts.

    Imabout to leave this pleace, Grrm is you peoples next Justin Bieber.

    At that pace…. 8 years for 3 books. Then 8 years for the next two. Which means logically it will take him 8 years for the next 1 book. And if you continue with the math trend, it will be infinity before he gets the 7th book done, which means not at all.

  374. Vincentious
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    Eric Niewohner,

    Well GRRM actually has cut back on appearances. His engagements list in 2014 is pretty light off his site, and 2013 wasn’t as heavy as has been either. So people are actually still moaning about this point, which isn’t actually a point anymore. Still, moan away people… 1st World problems and all.

  375. Greenjones
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    We need some new news, I think. The speculation seems to have stagnated. Given that what George says here doesn’t gel with previous info from GoT’s producers, it indicates that he isn’t on the same page as them. That is a problem but I’m sure it will be remedied when he’s shown how far-covering season 5 will be. Of course TWOW and ADOS release dates are up in the air, but many of us had already assumed that they wouldn’t be coming out soon. All of these factors make it cathartic to bash George, but actually bogging ourselves down in that isn’t very useful.

  376. Asha Karina
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    Rygar, i’m still in love and i can’t do better than your finale and your arguments (you’re right Strider). However, in order to promote gender equality, i’m gonna try this : vagina, vagina, vagina.
    I cried, ” oh lady midnight, i fear that you grow old, the stars eat your body and the wind makes you cold”…

  377. Vincentious
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    JonSnow17,

    Wow.. it’s not even a false hope, it’s an opinion. I’m not hoping for anything. Evidently 7 seasons must be the way of things seeing as you says so when the shows producers, HBO and GRRM are giving conflicting views. But what’s your problem though? Would an extra season or two of your alleged favourite show really matter that much to you? And frankly, we aren’t at that point yet so how the fly would you really know either way whether this is a “false hope” or whatever. You don’t know anything about 3 or 4 years from now thanks.

    I also can’t take anyone seriously who can write something as rude as, “So because the Fat Man can’t write faster to save his life, we have to endure two seasons of filler trash with some good stuff trown in it, fuck no !”.

    Lowest common denominator, disrespectful classless stuff. But keep at it to keep proving my point.

  378. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    It makes even less sense for Brienne to continue in spite of Podrick’s murder. Before I begin, let me get this out of the way: Podrick is alive, as confirmed by GRRM in a con (we don’t know about Hyle Hunt, though). The idea behind Brienne’s arc post AFFC is that she is a true knight in all but her name, and she is presented with a truly hard choice. She has to choose between Stoneheart- the thing that used to be Catelyn Stark, the woman she was sworn to defend, the woman she cared deeply about and truly sympathized with- and Jamie Lannister- a man who she saw change before her eyes from a self-centered monster into a genuinely good man, a man that saved her from rape and death, the only man who ever acknowledged what she really is with respect, the man that trusted her with his honor and his vows, a man she is in love with.

    Choosing between a monster who used to be a human and a human who used to be a monster isn’t very hard, if you ask me. Put simply, Stoneheart and her accusations are absolutely wrong. She thinks Jamie masterminded the Red Wedding after hearing “Jamie Lannister sends his regards” but she is wrong there. She thinks Jamie Ickes his vows yet again by not bringing Sansa and Arya back home as he promised, but the truth is neither of them were available for saving and Jamie actually sent Brienne to look for them. It would be hard to betray Jamie after that, even though behind the twisted, bruised face of Stoneheart there is still a bit of Catelyn.

    As Brienne got hanged, after completely refusing to betray Jamie, she saw that Podrick (an innocent boy, in whom she could see bits of herself, a boy that didn’t deserve to follow her fate because he had nothing to do with if all) being hanged as well. At this point, looking into Podrick’s eyes, something changed in Brienne. What precisely made her decide to betray Jamie after she already went out of her way to deny it? What made her change her mind after she was willing to die rather than do that to him? Podrick, the terror on his face and the unfairness of it all.

    So Brienne shouts “sword!” and they cut her down and then she rushes to help Podrick. He is all that matters now. Both Jamie and Stoneheart are tainted creatures, and without Podrick factoring in there would be a certain balance. Brienne would die in a heartbeat rather than break her vows and her trust to either of them if Podrick wasn’t there. But he is, and Brienne feels responsible for his situation. SHE would die in a heartbeat, but she could never let him die for her, die for this fucked up choice she has to make. Podrick tips it over and out, and Brienne makes a choice, regrettably.

  379. The Bastard
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

    Vincentious:
    JonSnow17,

    Wow.. it’s not even a false hope, it’s an opinion.I’m not hoping for anything.Evidently 7 seasons must be the way of things seeing as you says so when the shows producers, HBO and GRRM are giving conflicting views.But what’s your problem though?Would an extra season or two of your alleged favourite show really matter that much to you?And frankly, we aren’t at that point yet so how the fly would you really know either way whether this is a “false hope” or whatever.You don’t know anything about 3 or 4 years from now thanks.

    An extra two seasons would certainly bother me. Less is more. And the show is already going to have at least 70 hours of material. String it along too much and they will turn it to junk.

    Better to leave a few side stories out of the show and keep the narrative strong and manageable.

  380. Jordan
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    Well put although I think there might be another factor in play. I’m not positive it works logistically, but I bet that in the time between calling out “Sword” and when she goes to meet up with Jaime, Brienne heard about Jaime’s “trebuchet threat” toward Edmure- remember, Tom O’Sevens witnessed it. So, I think Brienne probably has some severe (and justified) doubts as to whether Jaime has truly changed.

  381. Satin
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    exactly that. And it’s not fair, not to Brienne, or Jaime, or even to Podrick, who never asked to be a catalyst in this situation. But these are the choices you have to make in a realistically drawn world. It’s not always between the bad and the good. It’s between the crappy and that which would be far worse, and no matter what you do, you will be soiled by it.

    Jordan,

    I think that might be true, as well, but for Brienne’s personal arc, it’s important that she makes that choice without having any doubts in Jaime’s honest conversion.

  382. Satin
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

    Asha Karina,

    to which I say, this rug… it really tied the room together.

  383. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    Greenjones,

    You know what would be nice right now? An official press statement by D&D or HBO about these last three articles. It would be great to know how much GRRM knows, to know which of the conflicting reports on the series length is true, to know (if 7 seasons is the case) if that’s done because of HBO not willing to go through contract negotiations and to know how set in stone that number is. And GRRM needs to know, too. He can’t just sit merrily in his office thinking about flowers and sunshine and that everything will be alright because the show still has another 17 seasons left. GRRM NEEDS this wake up call (WE don’t really NEED it, but it sure would be nice and would calm many internet souls).

    So if any HBO person or GOT person is reading this comment… At least consider it. It will be entirely easy to just bunker down and wait for the Storm to pass, but maybe saying something definite will be even better. Maybe being more direct with the fandom and absolutely transparent with GRRM will actually be good for everyone.

    This situation right now just isn’t good or productive for any of the involved parties.

  384. Turri
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    Btw, by my chapter count it’s
    S4: ASOS 24, AFFC 5, ADWD 7
    S5: AFFC 41, ADWD 31
    S6: ADWD 34, TWOW ? (10-25)

  385. JonSnow17
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    Vincentious I am just being realistic and not living in la la land like some of you guys , the deal it’s already set and no amount of speculating or wishing would change anything . I also don’t really care what you think about me as that obviously is not important, instead of crying about your favorite author being bashed like he deserves, why don’t you try to reach him on his email or blog and tell him about the big problem that he has on his hands .

  386. Zack
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    He’s completely mad.

    It’s clear that it stems from his problem of equating ‘number of pages’ with ‘filmable things’.

  387. House Mormont
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    Well that was kind of beautiful, well said. So if she has turned on Jaime and LS both, she must have some kind of plan for what she’s going to do when she takes Jaime to Stoneheart right?

  388. Susie-Q
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    Everyone here is so negative! How can we possibly predict better than George or David and Dan how many seasons this book or that book will take, especially when we haven’t even seen season 4 yet!

    Relax and let the experts handle it. They’ve done a very good job so far!

  389. Jordan
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    Satin,

    I think it makes sense for Brienne to doubt whether Jaime has really changed, such that it would motivate her helping Stoneheart because honestly, I kind of doubt he has too. I mean I think the show can play him as legitimately reformed, but reading the book, I get the feeling he’s really more like a nicer version of the same person he was before (and the trebuchet scene shows how easily he falls back into the same old behavior- even though he didn’t really have a choice).

  390. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    The good news is that by the end of the story, the characters should be coming back together a little bit. That makes it easier to condense.

  391. Satin
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    well… not as long the BWB still has Pod. Of course, someone might get it into their heads to release Pod… for example. But… who knows. Other than Grrmy and the Ds, that is.

  392. John M W
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    I’d been curious for a while as to what the publisher would do for a HBO-tie in novel this year, and it seems they are pushing ahead and releasing AFFC with the Season 4 poster art:

    http://www.randomhouse.com/book/240040/a-feast-for-crows-hbo-tie-in-edition-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-book-four-by-george-rr-martin

  393. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Turri,

    Your seasons 5 and 6 are probably wrong, although that would have (roughly) been my dream version of things. Season 5 will have a lot more from these two books than we think it should. Tyrion will certainly reach Meereen, Theon will certainly escape from Winterfell, Brienne will surely reach Jamie… The list goes on. Dany (and Meereen in general) are the only one with a questionable arc- will she end at the Daznak Pit (which is logical but slow compared to other storylines) or will it go beyond that? Could we actually see the battle of Meereen in season 5? As ridiculously impossible as that sounds, it’s a possibility!

    If they really are going for seven seasons, most of TWOW will have to be in season 6, or they’ll never finish the story in time. Things will get rushed. Things will get cut. Things will change drastically- unless the seven season remark is bogus, which it honestly doesn’t seem to be.

  394. zambi76
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    Judging by Arianne’s two sample chapters… there’s a lot more travelogue in store.

    Yeah, reading the sample chapters of TWOW made me realize that 7 books is pretty much a pipedream. GRRM does not snap back into ASOS plot-speed we are still “safely” at AFFC/ADWD speed, I’m sorry.

  395. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    John M W,

    That’s really stupid. GOT fans might pick it up instead of ASOS thinking it ties with season 4.

  396. Lord Davos
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    Ozymandias,

    Um, no. He is determined to troll us for our bitching.

    JonSnow17,

    80 hours have never been off the table, until now. Why, i think money falls right from greedy HBO funders, they dont have anything to spare on this show, thats obvious.

  397. John M W
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    Perhaps, but it makes sense considering they’ll want to publish a ADWD tie-in next year, with Season 5 presumably finishing off the content of that book.

  398. Lord Davos
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Definitely, it will be faster paced, thats the point of many viewpoints in one place.

  399. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    zambi76,

    I don’t think so. The fact that some of the chapters are slow doesn’t mean that the whole book will be. Even ASOS had slow chapters. What you have to look at is the speed of the story- and things are shaping up to explode fairly early: the battle of Meereen, the battle of Winterfell, Jamie and Brienne meet Stoneheart, the two trials at King’s Landing (as well as the reaction to Kevan’s death), Arya is headed somewhere different, the Wall is undergoing what I could only describe as civil war, the Others have amounted an army at Hardhome…

    I still expect ASOS level pacing for TWOW.

  400. nightwind1
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    King Tommen,
    How ’bout not acting like your entitled to a writer producing what you want, when you want it? It doesn’t work like that.

    To quote Neil Gaiman: “George R.R. Martin is not your bitch…”

  401. Lord Davos
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    JonSnow17,

    The real problem is, will you be around for the next book?
    Other than that, bash him as much as you want. Its so funny that you wear the name of one of his characters yet are super pissed. Shows how skilled George is at making fans devoted, and how much time fans devote to him.

  402. House Mormont
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    Satin,

    Well Thoros might see the light, he knows Stoneheart is unjust and he doesn’t know why he still follows her. That’d be a strange alliance. A red priest with the power of resurrection, and Brienne of Tarth. In fact the more I think about it, it’d make oodles of sense for Brienne to be the leader of the BWB

  403. Satin
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    Jordan,

    but that’s still kind of window dressing in a way, isn’t it? It’s still a personal betrayal, even if she’s taking the moral high horse. I’m not chastising her decision here, I’m just saying that even if Jaime didn’t change, it doesn’t devaluate what he has done for her, and the friendship they have for each other. It’s a really, really painful thing to happen to them.

    Now, whether Jaime has really changed – it’s an interesting question. I don’t think the trebuchet situation is the same as pushing Bran out of the window, because he’s using his reputation to scare Edmure into surrendering, in the safe knowledge that Edmure is more likely to give in, then to look if he’d keep that promise (and good for Edmure, really).
    In general I believe Jaime would like to think he’s changed, but he has this habit of putting the responsibility for his decisions at the feed of others instead of himself – Cersei especially, whom he seems to blame for everything reckless he has done since the cradle. What makes me believe he actually might have changed, is the situation with Pia – he doesn’t do it for self-gain, or because he’s hoping to get her approval, he does it because he recognises himself in her, sees another broken human like himself – and empathy tends to be a pretty good sign in these books.

  404. flying f***
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    nightwind1,

    The “GRRM is not your bitch” quote has never been witty and it never will, using it only shows that people who insist that GRRM is god and can’t be criticized have no real arguments to defend him. He barely dedicates time to writting asoiaf and what he has written in the last few years is terrible compared to the first three books, AFFC and ADWD are pure filler with no climax and way too much food, sightseeing and diarrhea.

    Writting is his job, and he hasn’t worked in a long time, if people are starting to see this is his own fault, he had a lot of time to finish his books, and he didn’t, and now the show will finish the story for him.

  405. Satin
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    I wouldn’t put money on anyone leading the BWB anywhere, or Thoros actually getting himself back into gear, but that’s just my interpretation. I think if anyone sets Pod free, it’s going to be Gendry, not Thoros. But it’s just as possible that this conflict is going to be resolved differently, or at least postponed. I mean, we don’t even know if Brienne and Jaime will get to Stoneheart. It’s difficult to say what will happen.

  406. House Mormont
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    Satin,

    It might be unlikely, but they both stand for the same thing, and they’ve both lost their way morally
    either way, it’s one of the things I look forward to the most in the beginning of tWoW, along with the two Battles and the trials of two queens

  407. spookyfork
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    Redking,

    ^^ I’m actually really concerned about D&D rushing things and trying to cram too much into so little time. 7 seasons seems like too little considering there are 2 unpublished books of unknown length.

    That said, I do like that they’re trimming the fat in some cases.

  408. JonSnow17
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

    @flying f*** How dare you criticise the beloved GRRM, it’s not like he is 65 and overweight and does evrything else except write the goddamn series that made him famous and rich, you are just a hater :)

  409. Hollyoak
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    I just read all these responses.

    NOT.

    I feel bad for George. I really do. He was never an anonymous, reclusive writer, and most fans of fantasy knew who he was, as he went to conventions, etc. But now, with the success of the show, it’s different.

    I’m sure at first, when he met the team at HBO and realized that he would see his world on screen, he was pretty energized and happy. And I’m sure he sold a lot more books because of it. That probably made he and his publishing house very happy.

    But now, a few years down the road, I think he’s lost a little when it comes to his creative work. A Faustian bargain, perhaps?

    I’m sure it was never an easy feat to sit down and write ASoI&F. But now? …with the added hype of the show and the series overtaking the books, GRRM probably finds it difficult to concentrate on the work itself, with so much hanging on it.

    If the HBO show had never been done, he could take as long as he wished to finish the series. Although I’m sure his publisher has some deadlines in his contract.

    Anyway, I think we should all cut the guy a break. He’s an artist, and artists never were the best planners.

  410. Rygar
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    Asha Karina,

    “And there are no letters in the mailbox, and there are no grapes upon your vine, and there are no chocolates in the boxes anymore, and there are no diamonds in the mine.”

  411. Satin
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    Oh yeah, me, too! Can’t wait to see how that gets resolved.

    I’m kinda leaving this thread now, it’s been fun for a while, but it’s really starting to feel like sitting in a monkey cage, and I haven’t brought an umbrella.

  412. JonSnow17
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    @Lord Davos I like Alan Moore’s works like Watchmen and V for Vendetta as well , that doesn’t mean he isn’t an obnoxious asshole .

  413. Dogs
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    Possibly the worst Leonard Cohen song ever?

  414. Ian
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    A feast for crows was a travel log? Um, have you read the book? It has more to do with the prophecy and the future of the story than any other book in the series. Not to mention the ending of dance.

    Anyways, I think a season and a half should be enough to cover a Feast and Dance simultaneously. Also depends on how much of Feast they get to this season.
    Jim_BO,

  415. Rygar
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    Strider,

    “Near him sat the Lady Arwen. To his surprise Frodo saw that Aragorn stood beside her; his dark cloak was thrown back, and he seemed to be clad in elven-mail, and a star shown on his breast. They spoke together, and then suddenly it seemed to Frodo that Arwen turned towards him, and the light of her eyes fell on him from afar and pierced his heart.”

  416. Rygar
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    Dogs,

    Ah but tis a fun song. And LC certainly seemed to have enjoyed recording it.

  417. Lord Davos
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    flying f***,

    But people have no arguments to attack him either. George writes all the time. He releases things all the time. Its a draw.

    No one can bitch without Grrm, is a better quote.

  418. Rygar
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Has anyone mentioned GRRMs smug look in the picture posted here? Fucking glorious.

  419. flying f***
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    JonSnow17:
    @flying f*** How dare you criticise the beloved GRRM, it’s not like he is 65 and overweight and does evrything else except write the goddamn series that made him famous and rich, you are just a hater :)

    You caught me, what can I say, I’m a twisted creature who can’t stand GRRM’s perfection.

    Maybe if he signed my boob at con during a promotion of the cocteau I would be saved, but I’m afraid I don’t go to cons, so I will stay like this forever…

  420. Lord Davos
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    JonSnow17,

    Kanye West is my favorite artist. He is an obnoxious shithead racist.
    Doesnt change anything.
    I havent heard of Alan Moore really, though it doesnt matter to me if he is an asshole.
    I would never know from PR.

  421. flying f***
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    Lord Davos,

    He doesn’t write TWOW, he writes anything except the books that made him famous, the ones people actually want to read, he’d do anything as long as he doesn’t have to write the next asoiaf book, that’s why he always has ten side projects. I’m sure the fanfiction writers he hates so much put more time and effort in their stories than he does.

  422. Lord Davos
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    flying f***,

    Have pity for Dunk and Egg fans and for Tuf fans.
    They have it worse than us.
    RIP creativity.

  423. JonSnow17
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    @Lord Davos Uhh, did you just used my argument against me, ok i think i am done replying to you dude, you are too weird and stuck up and not worth bothering anymore .

  424. flying f***
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    I pity all GRRM fans, I don’t discriminate

  425. Lord Davos
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    JonSnow17,

    Im crazy.

  426. Lex
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    Has anyone mentioned GRRMs smug look in the picture posted here?Fucking glorious.

    I think the smug pic, along with the delusional quote, is responsible for our anger in this thread.

  427. Ser Pounce
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    This is why we can’t have nice things. Don’t worry guys we still got the WOIAF and Rogues coming out this year.

    Current Mood: bouncy alien head

  428. King DBC
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    Wow, he’s really managed to alienate his fans, this is now longer jokes about how fucking long he takes… I’ve always said that I find the way he handles this very unprofessional, seems like the rest of this site finally does too.

    And don’t tell me he’s not my bitch. He is a bitch, contractually speaking, HBO’s bitch. He himself signed the rights to his biggest accomplishment away. I wonder how D&D must feel about this. I bet when they met with him in 2006 they didn’t expect that 8 years down the line he’d only get one more book done…

  429. Lex
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    Wastrel,

    Ha! Well said.

    When you look at it that way (3 seasons based on AFFC/ADWD being as long as 15 regular movies, or the entire run of Deadwood, or the whole LOTR trilogy THREE times over) it really sounds insane. Oh, George. Now you are truly lost.

  430. Sword of the Morning
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    It’s amazing how entitled some people think they are just because they have become rabid fans of a book series. He’ll finish the books when he finishes them and if you’re a fan of the books you’ll read them regardless of when they are published. A lot of whining going on in these comments

  431. Jordan
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    I do find the comments here unusually vitriolic, although I agree that it is hard to square Martin’s comments with the obvious reality, and it is hard for me to shake the suspicion that Martin wants book readers to blame D&D for finishing the series too soon rather than himself for taking too long to finish.

    RE the (in)famous Gaiman quote, there is some validity in the post (and I don’t care for speculation on Martin dying soon/blaming him for having a social life). However, Gaiman is not exactly a disinterested observer. Not only is he a friend of Martin and contributor to Martin edited anthologies, he’s also a writer whose own follow-up works have ended up in development hell.

  432. John M W
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    I do agree with the sentiment that others have conveyed regarding the content of material we’re getting this season. It’s not like we actually have half of A Storm of Swords left. It’s a third at most, and many character arcs for the novel were finished last season (most notably Davos and Bran.

    We will be getting a good deal of AFFC/ADWD material this year, and considering the pace D&D have been going for thus far, I really would not be surprised to see next season end with the Battles of Meereen and Winterfell.

    It sucks that the show will outpace the books, but really what are you gonna do at this point? The show must go on.

    The sad thing though is that you can see GRRM & Dan and David are headed for a major clash. In other words – the honeymoon is over.

  433. Alan
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    flying f***:
    nightwind1,

    The “GRRM is not your bitch” quote has never been witty and it never will, using it only shows that people who insist that GRRM is god and can’t be criticized have no real arguments to defend him. He barely dedicates time to writting asoiaf and what he has written in the last few years is terrible compared to the first three books, AFFC and ADWD are pure filler with no climax and way too much food, sightseeing and diarrhea.

    Writting is his job, and he hasn’t worked in a long time, ifpeople are starting to see this is his own fault, he had a lot of time to finish his books, and he didn’t, and now the show will finish the story for him.

    Does this pass for logic in your world? I mean, really? Is this your standard of critical thinking? If so, you should be embarrassed.

    The quote you reference has quite a bit of thinking around it, and it has nothing to do with how much he works on the books. It was posited by another writer about entitlement. From your “writing,” I’m not surprised you don’t understand that or that you feel the need to reduce people you disagree with to some strawman.

    As for the rest of your argument, that Martin doesn’t spend anytime writing, please provide proof. Any proof that can stand up to even the most minor critical thinking and research. You’re either a moron or a liar. Because you’re writing things as true that you have no ability to know.

  434. BrianAu
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Folks, I really think what you are seeing is the open public posturing of both sides. D&D are saying 7 seasons to get George off his arse, and George is countering with 3 seasons for last two books to say to the public that D&D are not following my story accurately. Here is my real fear, that this will become a public spectacle at some point with finger pointing etc… that when D&D reach the end of published books George will say they cut huge chunks of material from his last two novels, and D&D will counter that not only is there too much material not worthy of TV but truly unfortunately the reality is George does not have enough new material or planned storylines that we can in good conscious put this out there for more than 7 seasons. Now does George really have the remaining material outlined for the books? I am not sure that is the case. And if he did would he share it completely with D&D? I do not know… I also agree with others here that it is very unlikely that the series will wrap in two more books either to compound problems… We have instead of the Mereen knot the GRRM knot…

  435. Lars
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    I think it is becoming increasingly clear the the “Mereneese knot” was just an excuse by GRRM. His writing speed after it appears to not be drastically different than the speed before it.

    He has lost his writing muse. Or something. That’s ok, it happens to the best of authors. But dammit, stop making excuses. Admitting it is the first step to get out of your denial phase, George.

  436. Lex
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    In case anyone is still expecting an imminent release of TWOW, Elio on Westeros just denied it and said it’s not done, nor is it coming out any time soon.

    “I’ve been asked to comment on the claim that a release date for TWoW is imminent.

    It is not. The book is not yet done, and no firm release date can be given until that time.”

    My prediction of 2016 still stands…

  437. Hounded
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    I think I would prefer it if the TV show went ahead and told the rest of the story for us rather than wait however many years for TWOW and ADOS. I just want to know what fucking happens! I want to know the answers to all the countless questions! We can always read the full story in minute detail when the books come out (if we live that long) …

  438. wizardeyes
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    Non-book reader -

    I like it but its a bit slow. There’s too much talking and not enough action.

    Book reader -

    Woah! Woah! Slow down! It’s moving too damn fast! I didn’t catch what that chicken was seasoned with! Were those beets honeyed or not!? I couldn’t catch if they were drinking mead or ale in that scene! They need to slow the hell down!

  439. Cumsprite
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    Has anyone confirmed when this interview actually took place? It sounds dated. No one could be this deep in denial given the news coming out over recent weeks.

  440. John M W
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    Hounded:
    I think I would prefer it if the TV show went ahead and told the rest of the story for us rather than wait however many years for TWOW and ADOS. I just want to know what fucking happens! I want to know the answers to all the countless questions! We can always read the full story in minute detail when the books come out (if we live that long) …

    Unfortunately, I agree. I’ve only been reading since around 2008-2009, and I’m already weary of waiting for the end. I don’t know how those of you reading since ’96 do it. Best case scenario, George gets around to the last book (provided book 7 is the last) in 2020. More likely, he releases it 2025-ish. Sorry, but if D&D want to push ahead with the show and give us an ending, I say bravo.

    I’ll certainly read George’s books whenever he gets around to them, but I’m ready to find out where all this is going.

  441. Anonymous
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    Yes we all feel so sorry for GRRM and his millions of dollars.

  442. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

    Hounded:
    I think I would prefer it if the TV show went ahead and told the rest of the story for us rather than wait however many years for TWOW and ADOS. I just want to know what fucking happens! I want to know the answers to all the countless questions! We can always read the full story in minute detail when the books come out (if we live that long) …

    I’ve started to come around to this view as well. It’ll be just as fun to speculate about how ADOS will be different than the show’s finale.

  443. Tatters
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    Anonymous,

    Man, fuck rich people.

  444. AngryRosFan
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    I have read and loved the entire ASOIAF book series so far (and wait impatiently for TWOW and ADOS). That being said, not everything in the book series would translate well to the more compact, action-oriented (show me, don’t tell me) needs of the TV series where there are budgetary, time and (audience) patience constraints in the visual medium.

    I have watched and loved the entire GOT TV series so far. That being said, I think there are a few book storylines that were not given sufficient development or left out altogether and I missed them.

    The book series and the TV series are wonderful works together and separately. The books give a fuller view of what the characters are thinking, but it’s hard to show that in way that doesn’t look awkward to a TV viewing audience and a lot of the “filler” has been removed from the TV product.

    AFFC and ADWD are interesting in certain respects, but a significant portion of those books, in my opinion, are exposition and world-building and would be difficult and unwieldy to recreate for TV, especially now that certain story arcs have been truncated to fit a 10-episode/season format.

    All that being said, I’m baffled that a man who has experience working as a TV writer could be so … unrealistic about the timing of his future books vis-a-vis the progress of the TV series.

    It assumes that the actors will be available some time years in the future while the author slowly works his way through his ever-expanding world of places and characters, and food and travelogues whilst the audience for the TV show contents itself with pre-series histories of characters and events that have never been mentioned before and have marginal or no bearing on the progress of the current storylines.

    As much as I enjoyed Dunk and Egg and the Princess and the Queen, they are book canon that are only very tangentially related to what’s happening in current era Westeros and Essos.

    To think that HBO would be content to substitute the side-canon for the main event? Really George? You’ve got to be kidding.

  445. Kevin
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    Cumsprite:
    Has anyone confirmed when this interview actually took place? It sounds dated. No one could be this deep in denial given the news coming out over recent weeks.

    He says “The season that’s about to debut covers the second half of the third book.” I suppose it’s possible the interview took place some time ago with the understanding that it would not be made public until the lead up to the new season and so he answered the question in that way, but that seems like a stretch. You don’t talk about season 4 being about to debut in October of last year.

    He does say the same things in every interview like he is on auto-pilot, so maybe when he gets that question he just spews out that answer without even hearing himself saying it.

  446. Tatters
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    AngryRosFan,

    I love all five books too. People hate because they can, its just a hate train. One day, years from now, I will laugh at us all.

  447. Kira
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    I read about 1/5 of these comments, maybe less, and every single one of you are saying the same s**t. Shut up. Seriously though. GRRM probably doesn’t even care anymore when he’ll finish the books. I’m running out of hope at this point I don’t know is it because I’m really tired atm or what. And I’ve only waited for WoW for about a year! Can’t imagine how pissed the fans from the beginning must be. It’s ridiculus actually, if he really wanted to finish the book as soon as possible, he could do it. Drop some other responsibilities(people would understand) and take some time off to focus only on writing. Maybe everything I’m saying is completely wrong and he can’t do that but I just want to know what happens so bad. I’m gonna start praying or some sht soon, burn leeches or something. Maybe make that voodoo seven thing Cat made for Bran and burn that as offering to the red god. Go find a white looking tree and start hugging that. George, it’s a dangerous game you’re playing here. People are losing their minds! Theories are out of control! Too many people think Khaleesi is her real name! Okay I’m just joking. But it sucks that he thinks D&D won’t catch up to him because they probably will do exactly that. And all of that sucks really bad and makes me sad and mad at the same time.

  448. Vikestad
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    George isn’t our bitch. He belongs to HBO now.

  449. Cumsprite
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    Tatters:
    AngryRosFan,

    People hate because they can, its just a hate train.

    For some. But for long-time readers who recommended the series to friends, George Martin might as well have dropped trou and taken a steaming dump on the folks who created the support needed to make an adaptation even possible.

  450. Tatters
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    Vikestad,

    And what will they do? Blackmail him? He got a deal with HBO that we haven’t seen yet. I am hoping, that it is Dunk and Egg. Companion piece to Game of Thrones.

  451. Cumsprite
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    Tatters:
    Vikestad,

    And what will they do? Blackmail him? He got a deal with HBO that we haven’t seen yet. I am hoping, that it is Dunk and Egg. Companion piece to Game of Thrones.

    The wonderful thing about development deals is that you often don’t have to do anything. Just say you are working hard on something and cash the check. I wouldn’t be surprised if George Martin passed this peach to one of his Wild Cards buddies.

  452. Pate
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    The problem is that most of you think that your favorite characters must always appear, and you are afraid that this will saturate them. Perfectly one could leave the story of Dany, focusing externally (Ser Jorah), and place greater emphasis on the Iron isles and Dorne arcs. Changes in the leading roles are coming, and there will be plenty of time to make introductory chapters. Relax. I will see all the seasons to come, at the proper time, and I displease at the proper time, Just relax.

  453. Alcibiades
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    WOW! This thread topic is EPIC!
    I know GRRM, D&D as well as certain ‘others’ (no not those others) are reading this with some trepidation no doubt.
    This is a pretty serious situation we have developing here.
    I have the first edition hardcover of Game of Thrones, given to me for my birthday to tide me over while I waited for the latest Wheel of Time instalment back in the day.
    For the hardest of hard core and the purest of pure GOT FANS are the book readers, especially those who read them before HBO announced their planned series.
    For these hard core book reading purists, the very thought that the TV series will reveal the conclusion to the story and the ultimate fate of the characters BEFORE THE BOOKS, is extremely disappointing to say the least.

    How will I or any other pre HBO book reader enjoy the end of this book series which I have been reading since 1996 when the ending has already been revealed by the TV series?

    Although it is true that each man is his own master, or that’s how it’s supposed to be.
    So Mr. George RR Martin has the right to do anything he likes so long as he doesn’t break the law of course.
    But, with great power comes great responsibility.
    Has GRRM been responsible with the powerful franchise he has created?
    Responsible to those who first grew the franchise, the readers?
    Personally from things said and written, I don’t think so, but that’s just my opinion.
    Do FANS have a right to criticise GRRM? Does GRRM deserve to be criticised?
    Yes and Yes of course.
    My final thoughts, GRRM is still in my lovable good books, even though he’s allowed himself to get side tracked and forgotten the strongest roots of his stardom, the foundation of his fame and fortune, fans of the books.
    …for the fans George, for the fans.

  454. Rygar
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    I didn’t read the whole article. Can someone spoil me with who GRRMs favorite LotR character is?

  455. Jake
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    First, I really enjoy ‘Feast’ and ‘Dance’ quite a bit, especially ‘Dance’. I admit that I was a little underwhelmed on my first read of ‘Feast’, but it definitely improves with re-reads. I honestly don’t think GRRM and D&D are that out of touch with each other that they give conflicting stories within days of each other. The show is a big deal, with millions and millions of dollars depending on it. I highly doubt that they are working off the cuff, not with this much money at stake.

    Bottom line is, if GRRM wants the books to come out before the events are spoiled on the show, he has to drop all of the side projects he’s doing and focus on the task at hand. Maybe he doesn’t care anymore, maybe he is sick of ASOIAF (I hope not), he has been working on it for over 20 years, I can imagine he might be tired of it at this point. Maybe the pressure is getting to him. Maybe he’s just sick of everyone asking about it constantly and that’s why he’s been so silent about his progress.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s got much more done than he’s let on. Hell, maybe he’s even got some stuff from ADoS done. I know if I was him, I wouldn’t give any progress updates on my books, especially after the long waits for the last 2 books and the angry fans he had to deal with. I would just let everyone know when I was done, release it, and not say anything otherwise.

    I really hope he gets the books out before the show overtakes them, but if he doesn’t… whatever. I’ll be happy as long as I get physical copies of TWoW and ADoS in my hands, doesn’t matter if it’s this year or 10 years from now (hopefully not).

  456. Sister Wrister
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer:
    House Mormont,

    It makes even less sense for Brienne to continue in spite of Podrick’s murder. Before I begin, let me get this out of the way: Podrick is alive, as confirmed by GRRM in a con (we don’t know about Hyle Hunt, though). The idea behind Brienne’s arc post AFFC is that she is a true knight in all but her name, and she is presented with a truly hard choice. She has to choose between Stoneheart- the thing that used to be Catelyn Stark, the woman she was sworn to defend, the woman she cared deeply about and truly sympathized with- and Jamie Lannister- a man who she saw change before her eyes from a self-centered monster into a genuinely good man, a man that saved her from rape and death, the only man who ever acknowledged what she really is with respect, the man that trusted her with his honor and his vows, a man she is in love with.

    Choosing between a monster who used to be a human and a human who used to be a monster isn’t very hard, if you ask me. Put simply, Stoneheart and her accusations are absolutely wrong. She thinks Jamie masterminded the Red Wedding after hearing “Jamie Lannister sends his regards” but she is wrong there. She thinks Jamie Ickes his vows yet again by not bringing Sansa and Arya back home as he promised, but the truth is neither of them were available for saving and Jamie actually sent Brienne to look for them. It would be hard to betray Jamie after that, even though behind the twisted, bruised face of Stoneheart there is still a bit of Catelyn.

    As Brienne got hanged, after completely refusing to betray Jamie, she saw that Podrick (an innocent boy, in whom she could see bits of herself, a boy that didn’t deserve to follow her fate because he had nothing to do with if all) being hanged as well. At this point, looking into Podrick’s eyes, something changed in Brienne. What precisely made her decide to betray Jamie after she already went out of her way to deny it? What made her change her mind after she was willing to die rather than do that to him? Podrick, the terror on his face and the unfairness of it all.

    So Brienne shouts “sword!” and they cut her down and then she rushes to help Podrick. He is all that matters now. Both Jamie and Stoneheart are tainted creatures, and without Podrick factoring in there would be a certain balance. Brienne would die in a heartbeat rather than break her vows and her trust to either of them if Podrick wasn’t there. But he is, and Brienne feels responsible for his situation. SHE would die in a heartbeat, but she could never let him die for her, die for this fucked up choice she has to make. Podrick tips it over and out, and Brienne makes a choice, regrettably.

    Great post, HOTK. Very well thought out, and wonderfully written.

    Hand of the Kingslayer, HM, Satin, and the others who chimed in, thanks for engaging in speculation that is actually… worthwhile. By far the best dozen or two posts in this entire thread.

    And Rygar, way to come through when needed most! I’m referring to your thoughtful responses to the topic of this thread, not the Cohen quotes, as much as I love that guy. And I don’t agree with you anyway. I think we’ll see 8 seasons.

    Reza, I appreciate your sanity in this discussion, fwiw.

  457. Sister Wrister
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    Alcibiades,

    Great post. Especially the part about great power’s obligation to great responsibility.

  458. Jon
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    wizardeyes,

    Your idea for the finale is the funniest thing I have read all day! lolol

  459. Mopsman
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

    I am not going to say with any authoritative sense that I’m correct in what I”m about to say. It’s just a personal opinion. Okay, here goes:

    I feel that GRRM has lost interest in the story, and doesn’t really want to complete it. George Orwell once wrote that when writing becomes a chore and feels like a job and something you have to do, then it’s time to put whatever it is down and start something new. That writing should flow from the imagination and not from it being a job.

    I think this fits Martin. I think it’s part of the reason the plot and characters got so far away from him as well. At some point after ASOS he lost the story, he lost the plot. And now, it’s more an obligation placed on him because of the show and because he IS a nice man, and wants to do right by the fanbase that made him wealthy to finish it. The reality though, is he probably wants to write something else, and this has become a boring and tedious task that he does not look forward to each morning.

    It is what it is. He’s not the first author this has happened to and won’t be the last. He will finish it someday, but not anytime soon.

  460. TheMannis
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

    King GRRM the First of his Name will do as he pleases!

  461. JonSnow17
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

    Got to love all the ignorant people who keep talking about the millions of dollars that HBO makes yet still ignores that it doesn’t mean that much when the cost increases every season, i bet they think they can pay Peter Dinklage millions of dollars per episode because they make as much money as Avatar, really if that’s your only argument for the show to last more than 7 seasons then you are as delusional as the Fat Man is, probably more .

  462. sir martin of rrland
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

    wow, i hope all you rude – ass people understand that without george, none of this would have been possible, how dare any of you come at him like that, freaking pathetic. i want a new book more than anything, but would rather have it wrote well. all these comments disgust me.

  463. Rygar
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    I guess I should do “sober” more often.

  464. UnbowdUnbentedUnhodor
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    TheMannis:
    King GRRM the First of his Name will do as he pleases!

    I bet youre actually him posting on the the under an alias! Oh grrm youre such a troll

  465. JonSnow17
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    sir martin of rrland I bet you would let him take you up the ass considering your disgusting and downright pathetic asskissing of a post, Martin deserves to be criticised like any human being, he is not god or some saint just because he wrote some books whether they are great or not, so next time think before you post something stupid like that .

  466. Strider
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    I didn’t read the whole article. Can someone spoil me with who GRRMs favorite LotR character is?

    The one who’d lose in a hypothetical duel with Jaime Lannister, Ry. That one. Oh, he’d have him sing the flute too.

  467. Rygar
    Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:49 pm | Permalink

    Strider,

    Boromir would kick the shit out of Jamie and then stick the Horn of Gondor up his arse to ensure that no more shit would come out.

  468. Rob
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:49 am | Permalink

    George should just come clean and say that either he cant finish the books on time before the show catches up on him or he doesent want to. Instead of bullshitting us.

  469. Drew
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 2:23 am | Permalink

    People do realize that the Sopranos was a much bigger show than GOT and it was put on hiatus. All of 2005 was taken off. So it wouldn’t be out of the ordinary to see them do this. Will HBO do this? Probably not, but it isn’t as crazy as so many smug no nothings keep saying.

  470. John M W
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 2:28 am | Permalink

    Drew,

    The hiatus would have to be much longer than a year, and the younger actors would grow far too much for the passage of time in the story. Not to mention the number of actors they’d have to hold on to is much greater than in the Sopranos.

  471. Sir Dosser
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 2:58 am | Permalink

    I dont think anyone here has problems with HBO making more than 7-8 seasons, it´s just that people dont want the next 2-3 seasons covering solely AFFC/DWD.

    Lest face it that would basicly mean the show would be put on kind of a stand-by for 2-3 years since nothing happens in AFFC/DWD.

    Think “HEROES season 2″ happening to GOT….With that comes the risk of loosing the TV audience and the show getting cancelled.

    If streching out was ever in tought then the first 3 books are the one who should have been made into multiple seasons.

  472. Sir Dosser
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 3:56 am | Permalink

    Wiener, wiener wiener oneeeeeeeee weiner next to another weiner, two weiners next to yet another weinerrrrr, weiner weiner wiener weiner, threee weiners nice and soft not erect weinerssssss wiener weiner !!!!

  473. Ser Tahu
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 3:58 am | Permalink

    Drew,
    I’m not sure about the US, but from everything I’ve heard it sounds like GoT is at least as big as The Sopranos was over there. Either way, though, GoT is far more popular than The Sopranos ever was globally.

  474. Sister Wrister
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 4:31 am | Permalink

    Rygar:
    I guess I should do “sober” more often.

    Sober’s cool. High and drunk, also cool. As you will. I happen to enjoy the darker, juvenile humour you bring to the fold. The point I was trying to make is that in a thread like this, a rational response is always welcome. It’s good to know you can express yourself like an adult, when you really set your mind to it, and at just the right point in time. And no, I don’t do underhanded insults. So don’t take it that way.

    For all the grrm and/or dnd haters on this thread. Don’t get me wrong. I’m all for voicing frustration; debate; and constructive criticism, but so much of this discussion represents the fully negative manifestation of fear. People freaking the fuck out about things they have no control of, and then turning that fear into hateful words and despair. For what? Vengeance? Misery?

    Fully understand the plight of book readers wanting to get the ending from the book first. I feel the same way, and I read the books after first tuning in. I share the serious concerns that grrm won’t get it done on time, but hope that he will surprise us. I would also like the book that the author really wanted to release. Actually hoping for a Dream release sometime during the final season of the show, which I realize is potentially a ludicrous idea… In the meantime, what good does it do to fear any outcome? Enjoy the ride. Or don’t. But everybody being so damn negative damages the collective… calm. Launching personal attacks on the author of the series you supposedly love… is pathetic. If you really don’t like it that much, get the fuck out!

    The older I get, the more I understand the saying, “if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all”. A saying I used to think was lame.

    And no, this doesn’t mean I support censorship, in any way.

    fuck shit piss cunt cocksucker mutherfucker and tits. Ok, maybe self censorship, sometimes.

  475. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 5:30 am | Permalink

    Kira,

    It doesn’t suck that he thinks D&D won’t catch up, it sucks that he actually think they can make three seasons out of ADWD and AFFC. Because it actually is technically possible for him to finish the books in time if he just focuses on it. He had seven years to write two books, and now he has four to write let’s say a book and a half.

    It’s still doable. But not with that attitude. He honestly thinks he’s got another three years before TWOW needs to come out, when the truth is he’s got one year.

    And he says the last book would be tight! Even after adding two magical, nonexistent years! Which means that by his calculation, not ours, the show will definitely catch up. THAT sucks. I was expecting TWOW to come out next year, but this makes it seem like it could come out in a couple of years at least. It really makes what he said about taking much less time than ADWD on upcoming books seem like bullshit, and the Meereenese Knot might just have been an excuse for slow writing- and on top of that, that nothing has changed, really. Even with the show burning a candle up his ass, GRRM hasn’t sped up.

    That’s what this article implies, at least.

  476. Adam Whitehead
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 7:23 am | Permalink

    John M W:
    I’d been curious for a while as to what the publisher would do for a HBO-tie in novel this year, and it seems they are pushing ahead and releasing AFFC with the Season 4 poster art:

    In the UK, they’re going with ASoS Vol 2 (both ASoS and ADWD are two volumes here in paperback) as the cover, which makes more sense, but they’re using an orange-coloured version of last year’s poster instead of this year’s poster, which does not. HarperCollins here at least are probably relieved about this, because it means they have one book for each season even if the series finishes before TWoW and ADoS come out, whilst Bantam run out of books after next year (because, based on the last two books, after TWoW comes out it’ll be 2+ years for the paperback to appear).

  477. Rose
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    I think the main delusion here is all of you thinking the next season(s) will look anything like the books. This is television, people. They will add focus where there was none originally. They will add plots–maybe even characters–that aren’t there. They will play up and elaborate on events that were insignificant. There will be sweeping shots of landscapes and drawn out conversations and over-elaborate fights and unnecessary flashbacks to add precious seconds.
    And they will get away with it because despite the moaning and groaning you and I know we will still watch. And GRRM could pull a Jordan and take a decade between books and we will still buy it.

  478. Johnny3toes
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    Wow, just wow. I got through a lot of posts but after 95% of them crying and bitching about how the last two books sucked so bad I just stopped. Please do the silent majority a favor and go read something else. GRRM will get the books done when he gets them done. The story is after all HIS! I love coming to this site everyday and reading about the upcoming season, news on the new book etc etc. Sometimes though people get so bent outa shape over these books that we love so much it drives me crazy. I have read them calling GRRM a nut bag, ding dong blah blah blah. Give the guy a break, drop your sense of entitlement. The author owes you and I NOTHING! So in closing, pull your little boy and girl under roo’s up, take a deep breath and write your own book. see how long it takes and how successful it is. If you blow this guy out of the water then come back and talk about how slow, delusional or retarded he is. (Steps off soap box, flipp’n the bird) Good night

  479. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    Johnny3toes,

    He’s an amazing, creative author and we owe all this to him. But he’s also pretty delusional, as this article proves. You can’t deny that…

  480. Summer
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    Mopsman,

    Martin refers to his ASOIAF books as giant apes which need to be slain. Says enough.

  481. Benjamin Wakefield
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    The battle of Winterfell or Mereen, if not both, will be at the end of Season 5. That’s the only way for the story to keep up with its pace. Season 4 will be the last one that isn’t ahead of the books that have been released.

    I don’t know what GRRM is smoking but I doubt he believes what he’s saying, he probably just wants people to get off his back about it.

  482. Hoyti Von Totiy
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    Mereenese knot? What is that? Is that the poor excuse he used to justify the long time to publish DWD?

    Ok lets see “The Mereenese knot” was the problem how to get all the characters to Dany in Mereen … only when he finally after 7 years figured it out he simply made Dany leave Mereen? So 7 years to get them there only to move her out of there the moment they arrived.

    Brilliant!

    Ghostwriter is the solution.

  483. wizardeyes
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    Grrm released 4 Iron Island chapters from FFC as a novella called arms of the Kraken in 2002 (thats 3 years before FFC was released).

    Maybe he could do something similar again to ensure that his stuff is published before being adapted by HBO? I could imagine him releasing a novella which includes the chapters of the battle of meereen and the battle of winterfell which will start TWOW. These are already finished because they were originally intended to be in DWD. Throw in a few other chapters for several other characters and then he has more released stuff so that fans can read it first rather than watch it first. Or he could just hurry up and release TWOW!

  484. Dwarf-lover
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    There was an article somewhere that qouted GRR saying that he had already written over one thousand pages of his new novel . If that is true ? then he should be near the end of the book already ? I hope so …

  485. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    wizardeyes,

    Alternatively, he could release “The Winds of Winter, Part 1″ which would include half of TWOW (which he probably has by now) in roughly 700 pages. That would ensure he’ll be far ahead of the show in season 5. He could then release TWOW part 2 and a full version simultaenously before or during season 6. If the 8-season-plan was still up, the first part of TWOW would have actually been enough content for season 6. I just hope that they follow Breaking Bad in splitting an extended final season into two years (16 episodes made into two half-seasons of 8 episodes?). It would allow the last four books to get the screentime they deserve, and there won’t be contract issues. Also, it would make both the “7 seasons” and the “80 hours” statements make sense side by side. D&D did compare got to BB… Please, Old Gods, New Gods, Drowned God, Red God, fucking God of Tits and Wine let it happen! It’s truly a win-win situation.

  486. Cumsprite
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    Johnny3toes:
    So in closing, pull your little boy and girl under roo’s up, take a deep breath and write your own book. see how long it takes and how successful it is.

    I love this argument. Love it. You never see someone who praised the books being scolded that they can’t have an opinion on something they paid for unless they have written a book themselves.

    In Johnny’s world, only other authors could critique books whether they praise or disparage them. Sounds like someone’s cranky because not everyone thinks his special thing is great. Have a nice nap, Johnny. Don’t forget your binkie.

  487. Johnny3toes
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    I read this article over again and did it real….slow…. Please explain where you find this guy delusional? Please don’t take me as a homer or the drinker of the kool-aid here. But I am just not seeing it. He knows well and good that the show is chomping at his heels. Like the content or not of Feast/Dragons but you can’t tell me that there is not three seasons of material there. Yes there are stories that are drawn out a bit too far and thin but the material is there non the less. Feast/Dragons run together so they can dip into those books for at least three more seasons. Even if they just did a season each do the books TWoW will be out and who knows how big that book is. If the material is there and the show is tops then they will continue. The seven seasons in my opinion is way off. I am no TV/Movie guy so I have no clue how that all works, but guess what, GRRM and DnD are or have been in the past. So please, post up the quotes you see as delusional, me and my group of fan pals just don’t see it.

  488. Ham and Aegs
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    S Glass,

    Part of the reason for the Brienne plotline in AFFC was her developing as a character and realizing that she would be able to kill a man when it came down to it. She had never killed anyone or been in actual combat until meeting up with Shag and company out on Crackclaw point with Nimble Dick. The show had her kill men in Season 2, so this part of her character arc becomes moot and is otherwise pointless.
    S Glass,

  489. wizardeyes
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    Yeah that would work really well. Can we start the campaign for releasing TWOW in two halves here? Someone contact the publishers with the idea – they would love it surely – 2 books means more money! And us fans will stop nagging George for a while because we’ll have new material to read. Also – the amount of preview chapters he’s released or has read at conventions shows that he’s obviously willing to let some of TWOW out in the world…

  490. world_dancer
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    I think they can get 3 out of Feast and Dance.

    I think time can be bought with more focus on the politics of the Iron Islands and of Sunspear. The Kingsmoot is so critical that it would be great to see a bit more of the brothers and Asha. And in the books, the Sand Snakes are mostly established through other people thinking about them. It would build them up better to see them do something to better justify the Prince’s response.

  491. Johnny3toes
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    Cumsprite,

    With a name like Cumsprite how can you be wrong hahahaha. Never once said you can’t critique his work. Just why be a tool and call the man names and feel “entitled” to have him work at your pace. I wish his books were all out so I didn’t have to wait either but they are not.

  492. Tabes
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    You’re all getting so worked up about something that hasn’t happened and we simply don’t know. Why so much speculating and frustration when the best show on Television is about to start in a couple short weeks. D&D mentioned doing 7 seasons but certainly that is not set in stone. I agree with a lot of you on here that 8 seasons seems more likely but hell we just don’t know at this point. These guys have NOT let us down so far, why would we doubt them now? And as far as GRRM goes, who knows? Nobody knows! That’s just the truth, I’m frustrated with his glacial writing pace too but writers are odd people, their brilliance and their frustrating nature usually go hand in hand. Writers are their ownm worst enemies, most of them will tell you this. He will finish at the very least TWOW before the show is over, hopefully much sooner of course but that means we might get the end of the series on TV while still waiting for the last book. That’s the worst-case scenario here and that’s not all that earth shattering imo. Let’s just enjoy the ride! It’d be one thing if it was the old days and we were just waiting endlessly for the next book but thank the gods we have the show to tide us over. All is well in the realm my friends!!!!

  493. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    Johnny3toes,

    They will never make three seasons of AFFC and ADWD. Even if they try, the show would get canceled before they manage to get to season 7. In order to concievably stretch out three seasons you’d HAVE to do the geographical split. So season 5 would be AFFC and the show would lose at least half of its viewers because all three “main” characters aren’t in it (Tyrion, Dany, Jon). Assuming the show survives that, they’ll now have to make 2 seasons out of ADWD, which is nigh on impossible without using a large chunk of early TWOW material to at least give these seasons a normal climax.

    That means season 5 would entirely consist of Cersei plotting in King’s Landing, Brienne walking around Westeros (and let’s not forget that this particular arc seems to be headed for a conclusion in season 4! Which GRRM should know), Sansa doing nothing at the Eyrie, Arya becoming an assassin but not really doing anything just yet and Jamie spending far too much time doing nothing or walking around only to prevent a battle in the Riverlands. And then a bunch of new characters that give the casuals a headache. People will stop watching that. They will think the show has jumped the shark. The show would become much less profitable. And then it would likely get canceled, or at least D&D would get replaced because they would get blamed for everything.

    And let’s assume it actually succeeds. Do you think the show can shake off half of its cast (and some of its biggest names) for two years and expect them to come back? It would need a LOT of recastings. Which sucks.

    Now, if you think D&D could make three seasons of ADWD/AFFC with the books combined chronologically, you’re kidding yourself. The show can’t just stop randomly. Oh look at the big episode 9 moment of season 5! Tyrion scratches his balls and Accidently ripps of a hair! Meanwhile, Jon finishes his three episode arc of counting hams! Season 6 would be very promising, since Jon would actually move on to counting vegetables! HOLY SHIT, what an awesome season that would be. Let’s fucking keep Dany in Meereen for four seasons! Makes sense, people would totally not hate that shit and wish Dany just kills herself.

    Number of pages =/= number of seasons.

    I’m sorry, but it just doesn’t work. The show could barely adapt two seasons out of these books and if they want two good seasons, they need at least the first few hundred pages from TWOW to give the sixth season a proper climax.

    And the reality is far grimmer. What is technically possible is irrelevant here. D&D have stated outright they plan on doing seven seasons, with 8 being their fallback plan. If they do 3 seasons of ADWD/AFFC, they’ll have reached 7 seasons without ANY TWOW/ADOS material and with no sign of a conclusion to the story. GRRM should know D&D’s plans better than us. He’s a producer on the show and writes an episode per season FFS. 3 seasons of ADWD and AFFC is both completely delusional and outright impossible given the 7 season expectation.

    At most, we’re looking at a season and a half of these two books, but even that is a stretch.

  494. Shmofo
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    It’s delusional to think Martin is delusional. Far from it, not delusional.

    But what can he say when asked about show catching his books? There’s nothing else to say than blubber about AFFC/ADWD having 3 seasons of material in them. Can he say, well, don’t worry I have most of the next book written, it will be released soon. He can’t. He can’t say that he didn’t write much TWOW (his last update was a year ago, with 25% finished, including the leftover chapters from ADWD). The Lands book is coming out this autumn/winter, he must keep the svckers calm and in line, he can’t upset them yet with the truth how he spent years not writing TWOW or writing really little. Expect the update somewhere in 2015, where he mentions some other knots why he’s not even half done.

    Call the man fat, call him lazy, but don’t call him delusional. The only delusional people in this saga are the ones who seriously discuss three seasons of ADWD/AFFC or dream about 2015 TWOW release. There are some other non-delusional people discussing it or “dreaming” about it, I admit it, but those people have a financial interest in keeping his lack of work on TWOW under the carpet, as said before, there’s a world book coming out this year.

  495. Youper
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    I still recall GRRM’s April Fools joke, a few years back where he said that he was getting a co- writer to help him finish. Being completely fooled at first, I was disappointed, but then I thought it was for the best. I believe was GRRM was shocked by how many of his readers had the same reaction.

    I honestly believe the chance of George finishing the book series ever is about 50/50. I hope he does, but it is not a given.

    He took 5 years for Feast and 6 years for Dance. He is going slower not faster. Look for Winter in 2018, Book 7 in 2025, and Spring in 2030.

    Personally I will watch the show and enjoy the ending. At least I will know what happens to the main charecters.

    The chance that George finishes before the show = 0%. That has been obvious for awhile. He is not a fast writer and he never has been.

  496. fuelpagan
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Summer is Coming: This might be GRRM propaganda to push for more time.

    I think you might be right on this one. Just another form of delusion really. Like somehow fan outcry will give pause to the train that is quickly rushing up behind him. With the show, the fans calling foul for the show passing the books is a cup in the ocean of fans GoT has now. Most could care less about GRRM needing more time.

  497. triforce
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    Vincentious,

    Sure, the professor who invented a new genre, and created a bunch of languages while doing it, is a lazy guy.

    Just wondering, what has been your great gift to the world that gives you the excuse to talk about Tolkien, GRRM, or any writer in this way?

  498. Tatters
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    Youper,

    I will always be optimistic, and hope for an ending before the show. Will it get faster for him to write now?
    I hope maybe it will come in 2016 like the publishers said. Probably the book is easier than the last, why not hope so?

  499. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    I hate when people say “could care less” when they mean “couldn’t care less”…

  500. Fani
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    Honestly,I don’t care if the show catches up or goes beyond the already published material.It doesn’t matter.I was spoiled about the first season before I watched a single episode and I was spoiled about the books because I started reading them last fall.So what?It didn’t ruin the experience because the show and the book series are good and are two different monsters.
    I think D&D have been saying that they will finish the series in 7 seasons for years now and I think it’s good they know how much time they need to get to wherever they want to.They knew from the start that the series was not finished and that compared to the third book,book 4 and 5 are less action packed,so they probably have their own plan for the show or at the very least a plan B.
    I love the books.If I could have the next book right now,I would be very happy.But that’s because I love the books,not because of the tv show.GRRM can take as long as he needs to finish the next book and the series if the next book is better than the previous ones,which is exactly what he should be focused on-his own work and making it better. book by bookI don’t want a book that is mediocre,because GRRM succumbed to the pressure of trying to catch up.
    I don’t understand why some book fans are so entitled to demand the next book be finished before the show catches up.Martin should go ahead with his plan and D&D with theirs.It’s not fair for the people who only watch the show (who pay money to watch the show) to wait 2 years for a new season or watch a prequel they didn’t ask for solely because the book fans don’t want to be spoiled.And if the book fans are spoiled,so what?Are you telling me that if GRRM decided to let us know who gets the Iron Throne before the final book is published or that if the show finishes first and we are spoiled about the very last scene,you wouldn’t read the rest of the books or watch the entire season to see how it got there?The book series and the show are much more than that.The tv show fans have been getting spoiled since day 1 and I haven’t seen a comment that says ‘I can’t watch anymore,because I’ve been spoiled about what happens two seasons from now’.

  501. Adam Whitehead
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    Dwarf-lover:
    There was an article somewhere that qouted GRR saying that he had already writtenover one thousand pages of his new novel . If that is true ? then he should be near the end of the book already ? I hope so …

    No, that was a misquote. GRRM said that the last two books will probably need to be as big as ASoS and ADWD (1,500 manuscript pages), not that he has written 1,000 manuscript pages or more. A couple of websites leapt to that conclusion and reported it that he had a thousand pages done, but he later specifically said they were incorrect. He didn’t say how much he did have done, but not that.

    The seven seasons in my opinion is way off. I am no TV/Movie guy so I have no clue how that all works, but guess what, GRRM and DnD are or have been in the past. So please, post up the quotes you see as delusional, me and my group of fan pals just don’t see it.

    The producers of the show and the company that makes the show have outright said that the show will end after seven seasons (not eight; no idea where that’s come from, unless they mean the ‘extended final season’ possibility). And George’s response to that has been to basically say that he thinks the show will go something like ten seasons instead, even though that has been explicitly ruled out (“At ten seasons we’ll be strangling the golden goose,” – Weiss).

    The Vanity Fair interview was a few weeks ago and certainly predates the EW statement from D&D and HBO. Elsewhere in the Vanity Fair article, D&D seem to indicate that eight seasons was still on the cards when they did the interview. D&D had previously hoped for nine seasons, so it might be that GRRM was reaching the same conclusions everyone else had: that 8 was the target but 9 would be better and doable (if only marginally) given the show’s immense success.

    What would be useful now is a clarified statement from GRRM following the apparent confirmation by HBO that the show will go for seven seasons and no longer, and what happens to the books in that case.

  502. Tatters
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    Ham and Aegs,

    I wish more people thought like you. You get how to adapt a story. Hope the writers know what they are doing with Brienne.

  503. wizardeyes
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    Yeah same! What is that, some americanism?

  504. Johnny3toes
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    As I said, Feast/Dragons run concurrently. Means those two books make one huge book. Two seasons can be made very easily from them. I also said they were drawn out a bit as well. I for one liked both Feast and Dragons. I rank them at the bottom but still liked them. All I am saying is nothing in his interview came off delusional at all. The guy knows he is under the gun and the show is very close to overtaking the books. He said as much several times in the piece. When I said they could make three seasons out of Feast/Dragons it doesn’t mean I want them to. They are drawn out and get real thin by the end. Do I think the show will catch the books? Yes, I do. Do I think GRRM thinks so? Yes I do. Delusional? No

  505. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    wizardeyes,

    I would be up for that. I’m too lazy to try and sell it to GRRM, though. I don’t even have a LiveJournal account…

  506. Bill
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer:
    wizardeyes,

    Please, Old Gods, New Gods, Drowned God, Red God, fucking God of Tits and Wine let it happen! It’s truly a win-win situation.

    Ha, ha, ha.

  507. Alex Greyjoy
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    No, that was a misquote. GRRM said that the last two books will probably need to be as big as ASoS and ADWD (1,500 manuscript pages), not that he has written 1,000 manuscript pages or more. A couple of websites leapt to that conclusion and reported it that he had a thousand pages done, but he later specifically said they were incorrect. He didn’t say how much he did have done, but not that.

    What was the last real update on the progress of TWOW? The one with “I’m about quarter done” from March or April last year?

  508. Biter the Gallant
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    I simply cannot understand those people who think the last two books to be fillers, or keep complaining about that “nothing happened in them”. Practically in ACOK did not happen too much staff either on the surface level (just think about Dany’s storyline: it was a simple desert-ruined city-Qarth-House of Undying-assassination attempt thing on plot level – naturally, it had deeper meanings and long-run consequences, but it was not too complicated. Actually, the Mereneese knot is far more complex… Tyrion’s storyline in ACOK is neither more complicated than for example Jon’s in ADWD). It is ridiculous to await GRRM to write astonishing “whoo-haa” moments to every second page, just to make the more stupid readers happy. For example, many people don’t like Victarion’s chapters, and think they are “boring”, whilst actually they are one of the funniest in the series, full with irony, and I’m sure they will be even more funny in retrospect, when we will know Euron’s plan. Come on, many plot twists and allusions in the first two books were only made understandable by the third one… I am sure it will happen this way with TWOW also.

  509. Rygar
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    OK this thread needs a penis joke. Must be 17+ to view.

    Last night, my girlfriend was giving me a handy. She looks up at me and says “My God you have an enormous penis!”

    (Stop me if you heard this one…)

    “You’re pulling my leg”

  510. Adam Whitehead
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    Alex Greyjoy:
    Adam Whitehead,

    What was the last real update on the progress of TWOW? The one with “I’m about quarter done” from March or April last year?

    Yup. The only thing he’s said since was on Conan O’Brien when he said he was writing fast, which is no help at all.

    I don’t see how he can dodge the question indefinitely during S4, so hopefully we get a bit more concrete an update in the next couple of months, and can work out from where what progress has been made.

  511. Johnny3toes
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    Haha good man, needed indeed

  512. Ryan Dunn
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    I think some people are overlooking two things with regards to books 4 and 5…

    1. Once you feather the two books together, you have more interesting possibilities to sustain interest.
    2. Don’t forget that D&D are writers in their own right. I trust they will find ways to create real tension, conflict, and drama into these two volumes.

    All said, I do believe there are two seasons worth of material to work with. If we’re being loose about it, let’s assume that this season, and then two after that, will get us caught up to the end of book 5.

    Working back from when scripting will begin for season 7 (which is presumably where book 6 would begin), that does indeed give George just about three years to get TWoW on shelves but then only a year to get ADoS finished. Which is unlikely…

    More likely…

    Get TWoW on shelves in 2015.

    Get ADoS on shelves in 2017.

    Hope HBO hasn’t pulled the plug on the series by that time.

    Enjoy 8 blissful seasons of Game of Thrones. The worlds first (and last) 80+ hour fantasy about an imagined realm in an imagined time.

    …ryan

  513. Lady
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    GRRM is optimistic because they might just stop the show after four seasons…it’ll be a great 4th season and a great way to go out…having people crave more but not revealing the drop off in quality post ASOS.

  514. Rygar
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    Ryan Dunn,

    You sir are about to be Werted.

  515. cosca
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    Lady,

    There is not even the remotest possibility of that happening.

  516. kyle
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    I think this time next year, in the run up to the premier of GoT season 5, George will still be insisting that AFFC/DWD can be split into three seasons.

    Meanwhile, a publication date for tWoW will still be MIA.

  517. fuelpagan
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    I’m tired of people spouting “GRRM is not our bitch” as if that somehow ends the discussion of any complaint about his progress with the novel. Just because I chose a different profession than becoming a writer, doesn’t prevent me from being able to comment on his slow progress in writing the next installment in the series I love. If being a member of a profession is a requirement for being able to criticize someone who is in said profession…then GRRM can just go ahead and delete all blog posts complaining about what the Jets or Giants are doing wrong. How does he have the right to complain about his perceived mistakes during a football game since he has never actually played professional football, yet we can’t point our perceived mistakes GRRM has made in time management in order to finish the next novel.

    Thinking back to season one when D&D had to actually add more scenes in order to meet the time requirements, I think they’ve figured out how to condense the story and keep to the spirit of the tale. I’m not happy with every change they have made, but I must give them credit for keeping to the story while dealing with all the issues GRRM didn’t have to worry about. All those pieces GRRM was frustrated with in turning what is written on the page into something that can be filmed on screen within a budget.

    If they feel they have enough story to make 7 seasons then that is what they should do. With everything D&D, Cogman and the others are dealing with to bring this story to the screen, how fast they are catching GRRM isn’t their concern, nor should it be. Pushing it to 8 or 9 season simply to give GRRM more time would be a terrible mistake. If the show passes the books, then oh well. GRRM is trying to write the best book he can. D&D are trying to put together the best show they can. If (When) this happens, I won’t be blaming GRRM for writing too slow, nor will I be blaming D&D for going too fast. It is what it is.

    However, the reason behind this event falls squarely on the shoulders of GRRM and no one else. He signed the contracts with HBO. His experience in screen writing should have prepared him for drastic cuts to make his story filmable might shorten how long he had to write the rest of the novels. He’s the one whom ignored fans’ concerns about all his distractions that might cause this might happen, and didn’t take corrective action until it was too late. As far as I’m concern, these are mistakes and they happen, but he should accept the reason for the show passing the books is his own mistake and not be blaming others.

  518. Rygar
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    GRRM ain’t yo biatch!

  519. fuelpagan
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer:
    fuelpagan,

    I hate when people say “could care less” when they mean “couldn’t care less”…

    I’m sorry you hate it, but thanks for letting me know. :)

  520. haggard
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead,

    I’m not so sure it’s just HBO. From what I can gather it was only D&D who recently said seven seasons. As for HBO:

    HBO programming president Michael Lombardo tells EW that seven seasons sounds good to the network, though eight would sound even better.

    So HBO more or less said that eight seasons would be even better, at the same time as D&D decided to inisist on seven. Honestly, I could imagine their change of hearts (and apparantly not HBO’s) might come from George’s lack of progress with TWOW. Maybe they already know they can’t count on TWOW to be done, when they have to write season 6. In that case keeping things shorter might be smarter if you have to write everything from scratch.

  521. fuelpagan
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    And I thank the stars everyday that he isn’t.

  522. Alex Greyjoy
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    Adam Whitehead: Yup. The only thing he’s said since was on Conan O’Brien when he said he was writing fast, which is no help at all.

    I don’t see how he can dodge the question indefinitely during S4, so hopefully we get a bit more concrete an update in the next couple of months, and can work out from where what progress has been made.

    I hope you’re right and we will hear some real updates in the very near future.

  523. wizardeyes
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    Lady,

    I think season 5 has the potential to be fantastic if D&D can do it well, and the way to do it well would be to cut out the filler and condense FFC and DWD into season 5 so that it will be a kind of ‘best of’ of FFC & DWD. There’s amazing stuff in those book – its just dragged down by all the filler.

  524. Rygar
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    haggard,

    And Nine would be ideal but then again Ten is a really nice round 100 episodes.

    Its over after seven.

  525. Whispering Walda
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    No delusion, supply and demand.

    Not speaking as one of the 3000 fans that bought Game of Thrones in the Summer of ’96, or the 300,000 who bought DwD the day it was released. I am one of the 3,000,000 who saw Ep1 season 1 last summer.

    As long as the show is gaining millions of new viewers between each season, GRRM is gaining hundreds of thousands of preorders for TWoW. As long as TWoW is not available, well meaning relatives are stuffing your stocking with The Wit and Wisdom of Tyrion Lannister. If season four’s ratings are the best ever, they won’t publish before Xmas. I’m with Lex,- 2016 for TWoW.

    There will be fewer seasons than there are books. Some characters are reaching the end of their known arcs this season.It wouldn’t surprise me if season four ended with the last chapter of DwD. No spoiler tags needed for the final season, we’ll all be unsullied.

    The structure of GoT and CoK shows the end was fully plotted before the beginning was released. Mysteries like what Robert Arryn really meant when he said the seed was strong, and the origin of the dragon-bone hilted dagger still unresolved (and what happened to the last complete copy of Engines of War in Westeros –but that might just be me).

    The dead Hands still have too many murderers,( Maester Pycelle: useless poisoner, or useless physician? Does he think he does anything? Does he do anything?). AFfC and ADwD are not padding, they are exposition, getting the characters to where they need to be for the great war. There is solid masonry beneath that well trimmed ivy. D&D in all probability had a horrible 2014 trying to compress them into ten scripts for three times as much action in season five. For GRRM it seems to be work as usual, trying to compress what follows into four massive tomes. Repeating the railway metaphor if anyone asks.

    GRRM’s problem is not making the word count, it’s the details: Jaime can’t tie bootlaces, Qyburn’s eyes brown, vault of ancient wildfire under Baelor’s sept still submerged.

    When Tolkien finished LotR, he went back and rewrote it beginning to end. He put stars in the sky, and removed all the tomatoes from the Hobbit. It takes a scary amount of hard thought and research to do that, and I am grateful GRRM is doing it.

    The more he thinks about honeyed beets now, the more worth re-reading the Song will be forever. The longer he waits to release, the more readers will buy (until the final season ends).

  526. Sister Wrister
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    The nine are a bunch of pussies, it is known. And the only thing round is Strong Belwas, and he has been replaced by fabio’s replacement.

  527. Strider
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    Strider,
    Boromir would kick the shit out of Jamie and then stick the Horn of Gondor up his arse to ensure that no more shit would come out.

    That would prove an impossible task to be sure for your Middle Earth boy. No doubt Boromir would try something about that arse, seeing as Lannisters shit gold and he’s one golden ring missing (his precious no longer)… But he ain’t got what it takes. #themotherfuckingflute

    haggard: In the end like several posters here mentioned, the decision rests with the network execs. It is show business and unfortunately the business aspect is decisive. HBO might come with statement as the one you’ve mentioned, but it could be just a play to not get a huge backlash from the fans. I honestly believe it happened how Ry or Mr. Whitehead suspected. It just makes sense to me, after all the contradicting accounts we have so far.

  528. haggard
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,
    Strider,

    Hm, I think I might have not made myself clear. I am not at all a fan of endless seasons, especially if the source material isn’t there and probably also won’t be there in time.

    I’m only speculating the possibilty that seven seasons might have been a creative decision by the showrunners, not a business decision by HBO.

  529. Rygar
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

    Strider,

    #3thickshafts ;)

  530. Dormer
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    They should probably do longer seasons with 12-13 episodes each…

  531. Anonymous
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    Dormer,

    This idea has been ruled out multiple times by the showrunners. HBO won’t allow it.

  532. Lord Davos
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    Dormer,

    I have been thinking the same, other shows do like 20-22 episodes.
    Season 2 of Anger Managment was ordered 100 episodes. 15 could work very well with the right money and time.

  533. Crabber's Son
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    haggard,

    That makes a lot of sense because why would they suddenly change their mind from 8 seasons maybe 9 to 7 seasons if the show is only increasing in popularity. If all GRRM can tell them is there will be a big battle, this guy will betray this guy, he will die, then they would have to make up more than I think they are comfortable with to lead up to all the major events to fill 8 seasons.

    If TWOW and DOS were out right now people cant say they would still do only 7 seasons

  534. Lord Davos
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    Anonymous,

    Amc cut the budget for The Walking Dead, yet it now goes 16 episodes a year.

  535. Guy
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    Both GRRM and DD are delusional, if for different reasons. Feast and Dragons cannot be seperated into 3 seasons, there is just not enough content to the books for that. I can imagine two seasons, but that is with the tv writers adding some of their own story lines etc.

    However D and D are also delusional, unless this show tanks in the next couple of seasons, it will be more than 7. Their reasoning is dumb (just because other great shows have less seasons doesn’t mean that this show can’t go over that number. Breaking Bad is great because it has a complete story, ending GOT at 7 would be sprinting through half the series and would be very rushed) and HBO would never go for it. Game of Thrones is the biggest cash cow HBO has ever seen, period. The merchandising alone for Game of Thrones is gigantic, half the merchandise in their store is Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones makes a huge amount of money for HBO, and as long as it continues to do so it is not going to be getting cancelled. D and D have far less say in the matter than the actual owners of the show, HBO.

    To paraphrase Littlefinger, If HBO wants one thing and D&D want another what direction is the show going to follow? Whichever pays for it.

  536. El Beto
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    I have always said they should do the same as Spartacus did:
    Hold the season a year or at least half a year and show us the story of Robert’s rebelion, of the Children of the forest, of the origin of the Knight Watch, etc.
    They could do a miniseries where each episode or each 2 episodes tell a diferent story.
    That would be amazing

  537. Lady
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    Irregardless of whether GRRm gets passed, I’m partially looking forward to watching as an unsullied when it happens.

    I will, however, literally pull my hair out if he doesn’t eventually finish the books in his own way.
    :) only half-trolling here…

  538. graotron.net.pl
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    The best writer in the world!

  539. Cumsprite
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    Strider: That would prove an impossible task to be sure for your Middle Earth boy. No doubt Boromir would try something about that arse, seeing as Lannisters shit gold and he’s one golden ring missing (his precious no longer)… But he ain’t got what it takes. #themotherfuckingflute

    Piddlefarts. No one in Middle Earth poops otherwise it would have been described in detail over many books as a true maester of the genre would.

  540. Summer
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    A friend of mine suggested that TWOW and ADOS might be released at the same time, with George keeping it a secret.

    You just never know, but for now let’s assume that the book series gets passed next year.

  541. Stark Raving Mad
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    George, saying, “long before they catch up with me, I’ll have published The Winds of Winter, which’ll give me another couple years,” and mentioning Dunk & Egg filler does not provide comfort. Dance won’t be broken up like ASOS because it contains more that can be cut than ASOS does. I’d much rather hear you’d completed the first, second, etc. draft of the next book than this.

    While I’d like to see a Dunk & Egg series, I doubt it will be filler. Television is not novels. Actors don’t hang around twiddling their thumbs while waiting for story to catch up to them. Some may well want to be let go for other pursuits if it looks like a long wait. And let’s not talk about the swiftly aging (and growing!) child actors.

    I hope it doesn’t happen, but I believe the last of GoT will be D&D’s version of those broad strokes GRRM mentions.

  542. Dwarf-lover
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    The only thing that bugs me about GRRM is ; that when he’s asked about the new novel , he keeps harping ‘ When I get there , I get there ! ‘ … Can’t he be more lenient with his fans and say , either it is pretty close to finish or I got a lot more to write / what’s wrong with that , instead of all the mystery …

  543. Dwarf-lover
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    GRRM should take the next few years off and concentrate on his books , instead of traveling all over the place and doing everything else but , writing the books …

  544. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    Dwarf-lover,

    I live how you call intense work “taking the next few years off”. But I do agree. He should do it, but he won’t.

  545. Strider
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    Cumsprite: Piddlefarts. No one in Middle Earth poops otherwise it would have been described in detail over many books as a true maester of the genre would.

    You mistake meaning, Mr. Sprite. The hypothetical duel would be on middle ground, NOT on Middle Earth. Somewhere where “no poop” meets “excessive shitting”. Fairness for all, don’t you know?! Otherwise there might be friends of Boromir ready to intervene at every swing of pen. Sorry, blade!

  546. Biter the Gallant
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

    wizardeyes,

    The problem is that it is difficult to tell what is “filler” in the last books (if there are any) without TWOW. I mean, just after ACOK, many people could have ask that what the fuck is so important about Davos, cut out him, it is just filler, or even that Jon Snow’s storyline is stretching and ain’t getting nowhere… We simply do not know a lot of staff. We don’t know the full consequences of Quentyn’s mission. We don’t know what is Euron’s real plan, what Moqorro is after, what Barbrey Dustin is after, we do not know what is Jaqen’s goal in the Citadel, or what kind of misteries might be solved by Samwell there etc.

  547. Cumsprite
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    Strider: You mistake meaning, Mr. Sprite. The hypothetical duel would be on middle ground, NOT on Middle Earth. Somewhere where “no poop” meets “excessive shitting”. Fairness for all, don’t you know?! Otherwise there might be friends of Boromir ready to intervene at every swing of pen. Sorry, blade!

    Wait a minute. Is Loras one of the combatants? ‘Cuz it sure sounds like it.

  548. A Secret Baratheon
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    Dany reaches Meereen episode 3 of this season.

    If she is still there after 35 episodes, people will fucking riot.

    Seriously, George, pull your head out of your ass.

  549. El Beto
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

    I hate rwading all the negative comments towards RR Martin

    I think if the man says the books can’t pass him, the series can’t.

    Although Producers don’t care about us readers and don’t care about George, so it’s a fact the show is going to pass the books and we book’s readers are going to have a bad time trying not to get spoiled by average viewers… this is simply not fair

  550. Ham and Aegs
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    Jordan,

    I think that Jaime is a very different person. The trebuchet threat was only that, and he would never have done such a thing. Tywin or Cersie might, but he has come to separate himself from the actions of that side of the family. He outright refused to return to KL to help Cersie. He regrets the folly of pushing Bran out the window. He is doing his best to settle things in the Riverlands in an honorable fashion, regretting yet understanding how the Blackfish thinks of him. Despite this, he still treats with him honorably. Jaime is a knight that hopes to be remembered in the White Book with honor and is trying his damndest to cover the stain of “Kingslayer” which was foisted upon him for his ‘most honorable deed’.

  551. helena
    Posted March 17, 2014 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

    El Beto,

    Blame GRRM, not the producers of the show. He had several years to finish the books, or at least TWOW but he didn’t, if the show overtakes the books GRRM only has himself to blame.

  552. Whispering Walda
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 5:04 am | Permalink

    Would it be that bad if the show and the books had completely different endings – like Jon Snow was a Targaryen in one but not the other? I could see that happening – although we won’t be able to tell if its diverging until both this season and TWoW are out .

    And isn’t George a producer? He cares El Beto, he won’t let people who can’t even remember the mountain from season two spoil the ending for you.

  553. Asha Karina
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 6:03 am | Permalink

    El Beto:
    I hate rwading all the negative comments towards RR Martin

    I think if the man says the books can’t pass him, the series can’t.

    Although Producers don’t care about us readers and don’t care about George, so it’s a fact the show is going to pass the books and we book’s readers are going to have a bad time trying not to get spoiled by average viewers… this is simply not fair

    Life’s not fair dude… Producers don’t care about readers, you’re right, their job is to produce but neither do Gurm (he’s supposed to be a writer ya know,the kind of job where caring about readers is part of the deal ).

  554. asfastasican
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    I didn’t want to jump into the discussion since it’s more of the same, but people mentioning Tolkien made me shake my head. How can you compare the time it took to write The Lord of the Rings to this mess? It’s irrelevant how long it took Tolkien to write that book, seeing as though that story had a begining, middle and end. I’m not going to say I know anything about Tolkien on a personal level, but it’s obvious that he knew where he wanted his story to go. He didn’t just keep deciding to write another book over and over until he had seven books to write.

    Also, comparing george’s books being condensed into 7 seasons to condensing lord of the rings into 2 movies is just plain ridiculous. Of course you can’t condense lord of the rings into 4-5 hours of screen time. Stuff actually happens in lord of the rings. The idea of condensing george’s series into 70 hours instead of 80 or 90 is far more doable. It’s simple math people.

    Oh yeah, to those of you bashing the GRRM haters for being all about instant gratification, it’s worth mentioning that winter has been coming for 16+ years! (Yes, that is a Rage of Thrones reference.) Are you serious!? This isn’t like a bunch of Lost fans watching back-to-back seasons of a TV show for goodness sakes. We are talking about two decades of trolling where the first three books were done in the first third of that time. You can’t deny that the first three books were also the best.

    One time I wrote 1500 of amatuer fantasy fanfiction in 3 books very casually over a year’s time. You can blame writer’s block all you want, but I sure as hell knew exactly where my story would start and end. There was no doubt in my mind how the structure of my story would be built and that was just me being an amatuer writer writing one story for fun. It’s not like I was getting paid to write it and I sure as hell didn’t artificially drag things out. You can’t even compare this to Tolkien’s work solely based on work ethic. This is about writing as an occupation, professionalism and finishing what you have started.

  555. Rygar
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    asfastasican,

    Tolkien, like GRRM, had an outline but didn’t realize his full story until many years after he started. Pick up any of the Chris Tolkien edited early drafts of the LotR to see how much he actually changed for the published version. Frodo was called “Bingo” and Aragorn was called “Trotter” who was a long lost Hobbit who wandered around.

  556. Dan
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    There’s a great article on this topic up at Time.com:

    http://time.com/29341/game-of-thrones-george-r-r-martin/

    I’m ambivalent about the show getting ahead of the books. I’d rather read the books first, but I understand that “the show must go on” in any case, GRRM or no.

  557. Kaldor
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    Stark Raving Mad: I hope it doesn’t happen, but I believe the last of GoT will be D&D’s version of those broad strokes GRRM mentions.

    That is exactly what will happen.

    And probably for the best since the show is much more concise, balanced and mature than the books are anyway.

  558. Dez
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

    I think to call GRRM’s stance on the potential length of the series “delusional” is too charitable. Outsiders can easily surmise from the comments of industry commentators as well as D&D that the series will in all likelihood last seven seasons, with eight an outside possibility. As an insider with the latest solid information on the topic, GRRM can’t plausibly make a statement expecting the show to spend three seasons on Feast and Dance. I don’t think anyone with half the experience he has in the TV industry would think HBO would keep a show as expensive as GoT running for as long as he thinks it will run.

    As much as I love the books, the man is absolutely incompetent at PR. At this point it is becoming imperative for him to prepare the readership for the probable reality that the show will end the story first. The longer he keeps putting out such wild optimism the worse it will be for him when he has to reverse himself. This is a situation he’s been in before, and it seems he has not learned his lesson.

  559. Vini
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    so that means he’ll take three more years to finish the winds of winter? i’ma gonna kill this bastard.

  560. Elz
    Posted March 20, 2014 at 3:14 am | Permalink

    Truthfully I’m all for 9 seasons or maybe even 10(to get 100 episodes) there are plenty of great storyline & characters that D&D can use that viewers will love to see. GOT is a cash cow for HBO if they won’t entertain the idea of going that long for a great show thats earning them lots of money they are stupid.. I have no problem with what george is saying, but I do wish he completes the books a little faster so I could know whats happening lol

  561. Jaqen
    Posted March 20, 2014 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    here is what is going to happen :

    the remaining material of book 4&5 will make season 5

    they will make season 6 out of the unfinished but still almost done book 6

    and they will make season 7 based on what the fat man tells them the main events and ending etc

  562. Drew
    Posted March 20, 2014 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    I agree that Feast and Dance were not as good as the first 3 books, but to say that nothing happens in Dance is completely false. Yes GRRM fucked the fans by filibustering for a lot of it, and bored some with Danny eating figs and Jon counting inventory, but once all that is done lots of big shit happens. Do I think feast and Dance should be 2 seasons? Fuck no, but re-read Dance before you come up with the silly notion that nothing happens.

  563. Johnny3toes
    Posted March 21, 2014 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    asfastasican,

    Damn dude, why do you even give a shit what happens in the books. If you didn’t like the last books why even bother with the rest? You could always demand that GRRM fly to your place and you both can get the books back on the proper path that you invision. Hell while you are at it why not demand and place on the production team for the show as well. You can show the world your mad fan fiction writing skills. Good luck man, we are all pulling for you.

  564. Rygar
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    this thread shall live on.

  565. Travis Zimmerman
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    Trust me. It does take awhile to make such an intense series. Just think of all the houses he’s made, all the family trees, all the characters, it’s intense stuff. I’m writing my own series and it is crazy how much stuff you have to put together when you take a project like this. It’s not just another fantasy series with a main character and some side ones and a single villain. This is a whole universe being made by one person.
    King Tommen,


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