New trailer premieres on the red carpet
By Ours is the Fury on in Media.

The latest Game of Thrones season 4 trailer debuted tonight, on the Facebook Live event celebrating the red carpet premiere.

The new trailer features a cover of “Devil Inside,” performed by London Grammar, and heaps of new footage. Watch, analyze, and enjoy!

Ours is the Fury: I didn’t expect this much new stuff in the trailer tonight to be honest, so I’m stoked. And I like the musical choice as well.


272 Comments

  1. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    Dickon Manwoody!!!

  2. Swagman
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    Hodor

  3. Eren
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    Hodor

  4. GeekFurious
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    Damn. This. Season. Will. Kill. Me.

  5. Hear Me Roar
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

    Happy to have seen it live! ;) Enjoy it, it is really good.

  6. WompWomp
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    So glad it’s up already. Didn’t want to sit through the stream to see it.

    The music suits the trailer, but all of these indie chanteuses are starting to sound the same. I was surprised to learn this was by someone new to the GoT trailer scene.

  7. MM
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    Wow, that shot of Sansa stalking through a corridor earlier in the trailer. Man, she looks pissed.

    That shot looks like it’s from the Eyrie, but it’s hard to tell.

    Loved the shot of Oberyn and Ellaria kissing.

    Myranda definitely looks like she’s hunting a girl, since the shot of her loosing the arrow is paired with a shot of a terrified girl fleeing through the same forest.

  8. Ser Cyrus
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

    Major throner alert.

  9. Tom
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    that girl Myranda is hunting looks awfully GREY~ could it be Jeyne Poole?

  10. Jon Otermin
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    Could anybody tell me what does Jon say please? Its urgent

  11. Greg
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

    Is that Bran in the Children of the Forest cave? Looks like weirwood roots to me

  12. hath4
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

    no its just a random girl ramsay is hunting, its his favorite sport.

  13. facelessarya
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    That shot of Sansa is gorgeous! She looks so furious, I wonder what scene that is. The Eyrie architecture fits…

    And I spy alter sex?

    The dragons look stunning.

  14. Nicolai Hansen
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    Jon Otermin,

    “Mance has all he needs to crush us.”

  15. Greg
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    Also confirmed is that is Stannis’ ship sailing underneath the titan at :50

  16. Fatio Corcyn
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    That last Jaime line!

  17. Jon Otermin
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    And Dany, what about Dany´s sentence? I didnt understand it

  18. Carne
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    Just a collection of some of the new stuff I noticed:

    - New shot of King’s Landing.
    - Cersei walking away from Tywin.
    - Tyrion: “Sooner or later Cersei always gets what she wants.”
    - Dany: “Let the priests argue over good and evil.”
    - Extended shot of object being catapulted over the walls of Meereen.
    - Ramsay (while being shaved): “The Starks have always ruled the North. If they are alive the country will rally to their side.”
    - Roose without his armor.
    - Bran being carried through some bad weather.
    - Jon focusing on something.
    - Sansa looking rather scared/sad/angry.
    - Jaime: “Arya Stark hasn’t been seen since her father was killed.”
    - The Hound killing someone at the inn.
    - Brienne (to Jaime): “I’ll find her.”
    - Jojen: “This isn’t the end. You need to make it.”
    - Bran amidst what looks like human bones (Edit: Looking a bit closer it appears to be roots as Greg said).
    - Burning at Dragonstone. Melisandre present.
    - Reek behind bars.
    - Jon fighting at Craster’s Keep and Castle Black.
    - Oberyn: “Can I tell you a secret?”
    - Joffrey: “I broke Stannis.”
    - Davos: “The war is not over.”
    - Baratheon ship.
    - Wildlings getting riled up.
    - Oberyn and Ellaria kissing before the duel.
    - The Hound tipping a table at someone.
    - Myranda shooting an arrow at a fleeing girl.
    - Jon: “Mance has all he needs to crush us.”
    - Construction on top of the Wall getting hit by something.
    - Dany with Drogon.
    - Jaime: “Why have the Gods made me love a hateful woman?”

  19. Bittersteel
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    So Brienne is looking for Arya not Sansa that makes sense and ties intoLS and the BWB hunt for her too. So we’ll get “I’m looking for my sister, a horse faced maid of one and ten”.

  20. deefalc
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    NIKOLAJ FOR ALL THE AWARDS

  21. Jon Otermin
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    Thank you very much to everybody for being so helpful ;)

  22. Carne
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    Greg,

    It’s much better as text, right?

  23. UnbowdUnbentedUnhodor
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    A change to briennes story?

  24. Greg
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    Carne,

    I actually deleted my comment. When I read it back to myself it sounded like i was being a dick and i wasnt trying to be lol

  25. Silverstormm
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    My body is ready!

  26. Carne
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    Greg,

    Nah, I got that :)

  27. King Tommen
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    Although it’s possible that Brienne goes after Arya, it’s also very possible that the dialogue is edited to make it seem that way and the “I’ll find her” from Brienne is referring to Sansa with Jaime’s comment about Arya addressing the fact that there’s not much chance of Arya being found or even being alive after disappearing so long ago.

    They can’t indicate in any way in the trailers that Sansa isn’t at King’s Landing as that’s a huge spoiler so this would be the next best way to include that moment without giving away anything.

  28. Debbie
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    Carne, I think it was Ramsey who made the statement you attributed to Jaime. And if so, that creeps me out!

    Sorry I don’t know how to use spoiler tags.

  29. Sean C.
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    Bittersteel:
    So Brienne is looking for Arya not Sansa

    No, that’s misleading editing. It wouldn’t make any sense for Brienne to be looking for Arya, seeing as nobody has any idea where she is, or if she’s even alive.

  30. Silverstormm
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    King Tommen:
    Although it’s possible that Brienne goes after Arya, it’s also very possible that the dialogue is edited to make it seem that way and the “I’ll find her” from Brienne is referring to Sansa with Jaime’s comment about Arya addressing the fact that there’s not much chance of Arya being found or even being alive after disappearing so long ago.


    They can’t indicate in any way in the trailers that Sansa isn’t at King’s Landing as that’s a huge spoiler so this would be the next best way to include that moment without giving away anything.

    ^This.
    It’s what I thought also but couldn’t be bothered to type ha!

  31. deefalc
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    I agree, I think they are trying to avoid spoiling the fact that Sansa escapes Kings Landing

  32. Greenjones
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    ABYSS!

  33. Nick_Scryer
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    I can’t remember exactly but doesn’t Brienne say she’ll search for Arya too in the books?? “If she’s alive” or something to that effect

  34. WinterfellGrammar
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

    Anyone know where the song source is?

    As far as I know, Devil Inside is not a song London Grammar has released, any clues to where HBO got it or where it has been officially stated it is London Grammar?

    Definitely sounds like them, but trying to find the full version

  35. Leo
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    I love the misdirection in the trailers, but at the same time, it’s annoying to see book readers get outraged and rant about something that hasn’t been aired in full context yet. (I guess that’s the Internet in a nutshell, though.)

  36. Debbie
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    Silverstormm,

    I HOPE SO! Since I never want to see Ramseys storyline from dance with dragons on my tv :)

  37. Morgan
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    WinterfellGrammar,

    The trailer is posted on the GoT Facebook page and it says the song is performed by London Grammar.

  38. Silverstormm
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    Debbie:
    Silverstormm,

    I HOPE SO! Since I never want to see Ramseys storyline from dance with dragons on my tv :)

    Sorry I deleted, it came across a bit self satisfied and I didn’t intend it to but yes I agree with you re Ramseys storyline.

  39. Boojam
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

    Dany and Cluck a Duck Drogon!

  40. Jon Snow
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    I have just not been a fan of any of the music chosen for these trailers. It’s made some really spectacular montages come off as really weird and mediocre

  41. Dany
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    Boojam:
    Dany and Cluck a Duck Drogon!

    What does this mean

  42. Gregory
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

    Tom,

    I think the girl Myranda is firing an arrow at is Violet, Ramsay’s other girl from last season. From promotional material and behind-the-scenes stuff, it looks like Ramsay takes Myranda and Theon out for a hunt.

  43. hath4
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    violet is not returning due to the actor being pregnant. the girl is most likely just a random girl he is hunting for sport.

  44. Sean C.
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    Gregory:
    Tom,

    I think the girl Myranda is firing an arrow at is Violet, Ramsay’s other girl from last season. From promotional material and behind-the-scenes stuff, it looks like Ramsay takes Myranda and Theon out for a hunt.

    Violet’s actress was unable to return this season, as she was having a baby.

  45. mal
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    Carne,
    the look on Sansa’s face seems like determination or maybe angry look (the one where she’s walking away). Hmmm, maybe Sansa’s had enough of taking shit. Can’t wait

  46. Gregory
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    Yeah, I do remember hearing that… it looks an awful lot like Violet though. There was another shot in the Foreshadowing special of what looked like a random girl fleeing the Dreadfort, so it might have just been her.

  47. armsbendback
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

    It would be a dramatic deviation from the books but a fairly closed circuit(ie. minimal structural damage to the long term web) to have Ramsey, after having a full season being devoted to how sadistic he is, searching for Arya at the same time as Brienne. It would create a huge tension(for non readers) as the two seemingly race towards discovering Arya. It would also create all sorts of dream battle speculations(for non readers): Hound Vs. Brienne, Hound vs. Ramsey, Brienne vs. Ramsey.

    In the end neither would find Arya. Brienne instead changes course to search for Sansa(and eventually meet LS) and Ramsey returns disappointed from the hunt and resigned to having to find an apporopriate “fake Arya”

  48. Hath4
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

    Ramsay is not going to hunt arya. He will just marry the fake one when she arrives in season 5. The Jamie quote about arya is probably after hearing about the f arya plot from tywin.

  49. Bittersteel
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    It could be editing but they’ve already changed her and Jaime’s arrival to King’s Landing so maybe her quest changed too. It make sense since we know she ends up working for the BWB. And they do know Arya was alive and are searching for her. I wouldn’t be shocked if isn’t a setup for the Stoneheart reveal

  50. Bard
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    armsbendback:
    It would be a dramatic deviation from the books but a fairly closed circuit(ie. minimal structural damage to the long term web) to have Ramsey, after having a full season being devoted to how sadistic he is, searching for Arya at the same time as Brienne.It would create a huge tension(for non readers) as the two seemingly race towards discovering Arya.It would also create all sorts of dream battle speculations(for non readers): Hound Vs. Brienne, Hound vs. Ramsey, Brienne vs. Ramsey.


    In the end neither would find Arya.Brienne instead changes course to search for Sansa(and eventually meet LS) and Ramsey returns disappointed from the hunt and resigned to having to find an apporopriate “fake Arya”

    Sorry, sounds terrible to me. I hope they don’t go into that direction.

  51. King Tommen
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

    It’s not Ramsay saying the line about Arya, it’s Jaime.

  52. Ours is the Fury
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

    That was definitely Jaime talking about Arya.

  53. Darkstar
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    WinterfellGrammar:
    Anyone know where the song source is?

    As far as I know, Devil Inside is not a song London Grammar has released, any clues to where HBO got it or where it has been officially stated it is London Grammar?

    Definitely sounds like them, but trying to find the full version

    The original song was by INXS released during the 80′s. GAWD Michael Hutchence, I was in love.

  54. Ter
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    armsbendback: It would be a dramatic deviation from the books but a fairly closed circuit(ie. minimal structural damage to the long term web) to have Ramsey, after having a full season being devoted to how sadistic he is, searching for Arya at the same time as Brienne.It would create a huge tension(for non readers) as the two seemingly race towards discovering Arya.It would also create all sorts of dream battle speculations(for non readers): Hound Vs. Brienne, Hound vs. Ramsey, Brienne vs. Ramsey.

    In the end neither would find Arya.Brienne instead changes course to search for Sansa(and eventually meet LS) and Ramsey returns disappointed from the hunt and resigned to having to find an apporopriate “fake Arya”

    I’d love to see that! It’s a great idea!

  55. sphinx is the riddle
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    the shows got dragons, that is all the has ever needed to be said.

  56. Bui Huu Duyet
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    The Great Sept of Baelor has totally changed since season 1.

  57. Kyrion
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    Ramsay is a Snow still in the show, so hell have to earn his Bolton name this season, THEN he can marry Arya. He’ll likley earn it by deflecting Yara or something since he cant find the stark boys….

    Roose wont even think of marrying Ramsay until he is a Bolton. Once he is a Bolton, then that storyline will commence at Season 5.

  58. Lord Stannis's Soul
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

    Gregory:
    Tom,

    I think the girl Myranda is firing an arrow at is Violet, Ramsay’s other girl from last season. From promotional material and behind-the-scenes stuff, it looks like Ramsay takes Myranda and Theon out for a hunt.

    Obviously not Violet. Probably some chick named Kyra. And then Ramsey Myranda will probably become a victim too, because that makes a fine name for a dog.

  59. Abyss
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    Greenjones,

    Working on it. ;-)

  60. Clob
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

    Every “preseason” they seem to highlight certain things in every trailer. One of them this year is obviously that shot of Meereen. It looks very cool but I’m starting to get that spoiled feeling.

  61. The Bastard
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

    Am I the only one who enjoys the books and still prefers 99% of the changes the television show has made to the source material?

    They have cleaned it up and simplified it without taking away any of the core of the story.

  62. sphinx is the riddle
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    The Bastard,

    I am in 100 percent agreement. I love the books, and the show I think D&D make great choices in what needs to stay and what does not. I’m sad that some things do not come to light, but I highly enjoy both. Are you kidding me, give me a song of ice and fire tell me to make it an HBO series. Your gonna end up with a heap of confusing crap!!

  63. Boojam
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

    Dany: Dany and Cluck a Duck Drogon!

    What does this mean

    Self censorship.

  64. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

    I still wonder what the point is to bringing Myranda back as Ramsay’s hunting partner. What purpose does it serve? I’m not complaining about it. Just wondering.

  65. Leo
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

    The Bastard,

    I will get back to you after Season 5 casting is announced.

  66. Rygar
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

    Not feeling the music on these trailers lately. I think they need to hire T Bone Burnett.

  67. Greenjones
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    Abyss,

    Dependable as always.

  68. KG
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    Awww yeah.

  69. Annara Snow
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

    The music in all the trailers has been great. The only thing I would change – I much prefer the original Siouxsie version of Cities in Dust, but I guess they only use recent music.

    Florence and MrMs have been the best.

  70. JoffreyTrueKing
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    King Tommen,

    It’s just a funny way to do it. Hey, let’s not mention that she is not in King’s Landing but let’s extensively show her at a snowy location that is so not KL!

  71. Ser Tahu
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

    The Bastard,
    Agreed. Thus far the only changes I haven’t enjoyed are Jon in S2 and the lack of Robb’s will. I am admittedly worried about the recent revelation that they plan to fit the last 4 books into 30 episodes, though.

  72. Saulo
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    Can’t wait to see Alayne playing the Game – if the story goes the way I am imagining, it will be an amazing arc, both in the books and the on show.

  73. The Bastard
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu:
    The Bastard,
    Agreed. Thus far the only changes I haven’t enjoyed are Jon in S2 and the lack of Robb’s will. I am admittedly worried about the recent revelation that they plan to fit the last 4 books into 30 episodes, though.

    AFFC & ADWD have a lot of fluff that can’t be filmed. I like to think of it like this:

    7 Books & 7 Seasons. On average, each book got a season. Books 1, 2, 6, & 7 will all get their own season. Books 3, 4, & 5 will get 3 total seasons but ASOS will get more and AFFC will get less to even things out.

  74. Khal-A-Bunga
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    Luckily for you, D&D mentioned at the premiere that there would be “at least” seven seasons. I still think that eight is the sweet spot, and that’s also the number that the writers have brought up most often (whether by saying eight seasons or eighty hours).

    I think it will all depend on just how big the show gets this season. After the media frenzy surrounding the Red Wedding, I think the season four premiere viewing numbers are going to be a lot higher than people expected. Just by my own anecdotal evidence, the general interest in the show seems to have gone up considerably in this off-season.

  75. Ser Tahu
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    Annara Snow,
    I guess it’s very subjective, but I couldn’t disagree more. I think the version of Cities in Dust that they used is the best bit of music they have used in any trailer thus far. I’ve never been particularly fond of stuff like Florence and MS MR, so the Cities in Dust cover was a very welcome change as far as I am concerned.

  76. LordStarkington
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    Really enjoyed the trailer and the cast was as lovely as ever. Feeling really great about the season to come.

  77. The Bastard
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 10:59 pm | Permalink

    Khal-A-Bunga:
    Ser Tahu,

    Luckily for you, D&D mentioned at the premiere that there would be “at least” seven seasons. I still think that eight is the sweet spot, and that’s also the number that the writers have brought up most often (whether by saying eight seasons or eighty hours).

    I think it will all depend on just how big the show gets this season. After the media frenzy surrounding the Red Wedding, I think the season four premiere viewing numbers are going to be a lot higher than people expected. Just by my own anecdotal evidence, the general interest in the show seems to have gone up considerably in this off-season.

    7 or 8 is great. More then 8 and I think they will do more damage to the show. They will have basically finished 5 books in 5 seasons. I can’t imagine Books 6 & 7 each getting 2 seasons and the show running 9 total.

  78. omarlittletheking
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 11:08 pm | Permalink

    I read a theory that Locke would be the one that “kills” Jon in the tv show. Ramsay knowing that the north would follow a stark, makes me think that all could be part of a Ramsay’s plan: Seek and destroy Bran and Rickon, send a man to the watch to kill the last son of Ned Stark. Ramsay better than others knows that a bastard is a danger

  79. Ser Tahu
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

    Khal-A-Bunga,
    Really? That is very good news :P.

    The Bastard,
    It really all depends on how much of AFfC/ADwD is left for S6. If those books are, for all intents and purposes, done in S5 then I think 8 seasons would be ideal. If, however, lingering material from those books take up ~1/3-1/2 of S6 then I think 9 seasons would be ideal. I would personally prefer the latter option, however I think the former option is far more likely (an interview with Lena implies that the walk of shame will be in S5).
    Basically, I think it is a choice between:
    AFfC/ADwD – 1 season (not including S4)
    TWoW/ADoS – 3 seasons
    OR
    AFfC/ADwD – 1.5 seasons (not including S4)
    TWoW/ADoS – 3.5 seasons

  80. Ser Davos Seaworth
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    I’d prefer 9 seasons (your second option of 1.5 and 3.5) because otherwise story lines like kongsmoot and Arianne in dorne might be either cut/shortened, which I don’t want to happen

  81. Ser Davos Seaworth
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 11:33 pm | Permalink

    Ser Davos Seaworth,

    Kingsmoot not Kongsmoot, haha

  82. JamesL
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 11:43 pm | Permalink

    Ser Davos Seaworth,

    Nobody would even care about the show anymore by season 9. The amount of buzz and excitment for the show is most likely going to decrease each year from season 5 and on.

  83. Charles
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 11:45 pm | Permalink

    so does this mean that we can expect season 4 reviews to start hitting the web sometime soon? At least for the premier?

  84. Eren
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 11:47 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    So are u from the future? :)

  85. Ser Tahu
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,
    I know. It’s impossible for a show to continue receiving hype after season 4. I mean, look at Breaking Bad; no one cared about its fifth season…

  86. Ser Davos Seaworth
    Posted March 18, 2014 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    I hope not, I think GoT is special enough in everyone’s eyes to continue gaining popularity and ‘buzz’ all the way until the final season (whether it’s season 7, 8 or 9)

  87. ReekReek
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:02 am | Permalink

    Feast and Dance will snugly fit one season. Remember, most of those books are travelogues and stray POVs. If you strip them down to the parts that move the plot forward, it’ll be one of the best paced seasons so far. The Winds of Winter will begin in season 5 as well, since a few important characters barely show up between the two books.
    S05 – AFfC & ADwD + TWoW bonus tracks.
    S06 – TWoW
    S07 – ADoS

  88. mal
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:05 am | Permalink
  89. Arthur
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:08 am | Permalink

    Set your DVRs…

    Emilia Clarke is going to be on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon tomorrow!

  90. Phil
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:10 am | Permalink

    I don’t think they are going to get to fake arya and Ramsey quite yet. Also don’t think Winds of Winter stuff will be required til season 6. They’ll extend some storylines and reorganize stuff. Hopefully kingsmoot + Dorne will be next season. There’s still a lot to cover. I’m thinking Winds will be out in Summer 2015 or early 2016 before season 6.

  91. Abyss
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:14 am | Permalink

    Okay, here is everything I found worth taking from the trailer. I left out a few shots, which where pretty much frame frizzes anyway, and some scenes I had done only slightly shorter versions from already.

    Bolton
    Bran 1
    Bran 2
    Bran 3
    Brienne
    Cersei 1
    Cersei 2
    City
    Dany And Drogon
    Fire
    Jaime 1
    Jaime 2
    Jaime And Cersei
    Joffrey
    Jojen
    Jon 1
    Jon 2
    Jon Fighting 1
    Jon Fighting 2
    Oberyn
    Oberyn And Ellaria
    Ramsay 1
    Ramsay 2
    Running Girl 1
    Running Girl 2
    Sansa
    Ship
    The Hound Fighting 1
    The Hound Fighting 2
    Theon
    Tyrion
    Tywin
    Wildlings 1
    Wildlings 2

  92. Abyss
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:16 am | Permalink

    Greenjones,

    Done. Moderation time again. ;-)

  93. shadowassassinbabby
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:22 am | Permalink

    [SulliedWhine] why does theon have so many fingers? [ /SulliedWhine]

  94. Johnny SD
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:47 am | Permalink

    The Bastard,

    Bastard,

    I wouldn’t say a 100% because some changes are not better than the books, but some are much stronger. Interesting thing they have done is that every truly MAJOR plot point has been retained for the show. If someone only read the books once they would think it was 100% faithful to the books. Both mediums stand as epic stories in their own right/.

  95. Greenjones
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:55 am | Permalink

    Abyss,

    Thank you yet again! My favourites bar is probably 1/5 filled with these gifs. Maybe I should compile the urls onto one page to save room.

  96. John M W
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:29 am | Permalink

    Concerning the bringing in of Winds of Winter material:

    Given what we know about casting this year, I can’t imagine that Bran’s story won’t cover his ADWD material this season. So I expect we’ll be in WoW territory for him, at least, in Season 5.

  97. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:17 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    I think that means they definitely plan on doing roughly 80 hours. The only question is whether they can fit that in 7 seasons (by doing an extended and split final season) or if they will have to go to 8 seasons (which creates contracting problems). This makes me happy. We might see a proper Iron Islands and Dorne!

  98. Ser Low-Res
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:21 am | Permalink

    SPOILER WARNING.

    Someone watched an advance screening and gave a rather close account of many of the scenes in it on Reddit. The discussion also contains book spoilers, so don’t click if you are going to regret it.

    Here be Spoilers!

    His impression? “It’s a treat. It moves fast. There is a lot crammed in, but it flows well.”

  99. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:26 am | Permalink

    Didn’t watch the trailer. Brotherhood Without Previews…

  100. Sir Dosser
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:50 am | Permalink

    Why wasn´t Fat Walda in the new trailer?
    She is to Roose what Drogon is to Dany, she MUST be in the trailers!

  101. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:52 am | Permalink

    ReekReek,

    Let me budge in here:
    2015- Season 5: all of AFFC, 2/3 of ADWD (varies between different characters)
    2016- Season 6: the last 1/3 of ADWD (mostly in Meereen) + the first 1/3-1/2 of TWOW in a good stopping point
    2017- Season 7/part 1: the remainder of TWOW + the beginning of ADOS
    2018- Season 7 part 2/Season 8: 90% of ADOS

  102. Kyrion
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:54 am | Permalink

    Side note: I like Bron training with Jaimes new hand, but that needs to continue into season 5, meaning Bron goes with Jaime north to the riverlands, he has to. So much opportunity there as well for good scenes and interactions. It will be a nice parallel as well since Bron was Tyrions man, now hes Jaime’s. Tyrion bought Bron, but Bron will be against another person that has a dominate personality with Jaime, it will be very interesting their relationship.

  103. Ser Tahu
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 3:31 am | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    That’s essentially what I’m hoping for if there are 8 seasons, although I think there might be slightly more ADoS in S7 than that.

  104. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 3:34 am | Permalink

    Ser Tahu,

    It has to work through arcs. They have to stop after a climax. So it essentially depends on the source material.

  105. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 3:42 am | Permalink

    Ser Low-Res:
    SPOILER WARNING.

    Someone watched an advance screening and gave a rather close account of many of the scenes in it on Reddit. The discussion also contains book spoilers, so don’t click if you are going to regret it.

    Seriously, why did I read that? That was dumb!

    That aside, if it’s an accurate account, they really put a lot of the first episode in the trailers. Sounds like a good episode overall, though.

  106. FrYo
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 3:57 am | Permalink

    Dany on a cliff with Drogon.

    Does it mean we get to see her riding it?

  107. Talisa's ghost
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 4:05 am | Permalink

    “The Starks have always ruled the north, if they’re alive the country will rally to their side.” And they look pretty damn pissed as well. Watch your neck Ramsay boy.

    Also, the trailer editing is never the episode editing, but your Brienne theories amuse me, so I’ll leave you to it.

  108. Leo
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 4:15 am | Permalink

    Ser Low-Res:
    SPOILER WARNING.

    Someone watched an advance screening and gave a rather close account of many of the scenes in it on Reddit. The discussion also contains book spoilers, so don’t click if you are going to regret it.

    Here be Spoilers!

    His impression? “It’s a treat. It moves fast. There is a lot crammed in, but it flows well.”

    Thank you for this. I really can’t wait to see Sansa, Brienne, and Arya in this episode. also, haha.. Daenerys seems to get the last scene of the premiere again. Suck it haters!

  109. Hodor Targaryen
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 4:20 am | Permalink

    Ser Davos Seaworth:
    JamesL,

    I hope not, I think GoT is special enough in everyone’s eyes to continue gaining popularity and ‘buzz’ all the way until the final season (whether it’s season 7, 8 or 9)

    Highly doubt it.

    The only shows that I can think of that have lasted 9 seasons or more are police procedurals and other similar shows that don’t rely on overarching arcs, and are more just a long series of self-contained episodes. You don’t have a situation where people are waiting These vague assertions that GoT is special enough, or profitable enough, or good enough that it is invincible to the fatigue that befalls the vast majority of shows is just so very hard for me to buy. Jeez, look at the fatigue that FeastDance caused.

  110. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 4:22 am | Permalink

    How spoilery is this trailer? I mean, I read the books but how revealing is it? I am being tempted to watch it.

  111. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 4:23 am | Permalink

    The Bastard,

    I agree with you. Adore the books, yet, love most of what the show has done so far. To film these novels, what a daunting prospect. I think they’re making a damn good effort.

    Talisa’s ghost

    Also, the trailer editing is never the episode editing, but your Brienne theories amuse me, so I’ll leave you to it.

    lol. Seriously, though, as someone said elsewhere – and here probably, too – they were so careful, it would be dumb to give away Sansa’s flight in a pre-season trailer.

    I’m amused by the fact that so many people seem to have difficulty recognizing NCW’s voice when he himself is not seen. The man is not exactly a baritone, his voice is really kind of high.

  112. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 4:38 am | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    there’s some new stuff compared to the previous trailers. Let’s put it that way, after reading that account of the episode above, I kind of regret watching the trailers. I think they are a bit spoilery at least for some of the storylines.

  113. Asha Karina
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 4:45 am | Permalink

    Rygar:
    Not feeling the music on these trailers lately.I think they need to hire T Bone Burnett.

    Agree, the music sounds cheap. They also sould have hired McConaughey for a feature, there’s never enough McConaughey in HBO shows.

  114. Turri
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 4:48 am | Permalink

    Satin,
    It’s because 70-80% of what we’ve seen in the trailers is from the first 3 episodes.

  115. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 4:51 am | Permalink

    Turri,

    yeah, I thought the same. Still, it was a bit disconcerting. :D Of course, it makes a lot of sense, given that the PW is so early, and a lot of the later developments are simply very spoilery.

  116. Annara Ho
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 5:00 am | Permalink

    Leo,

    Yay. Khaleesi. <3

  117. Whispering Walda
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 5:23 am | Permalink

    Lord Stannis’s Soul,
    She really looks like Stephanie Blacker – and given the time cues I found here, the baby had been born before shooting started.
    Thanks to their mad CGI skills they were able to shoot the tower scene in season one in spite of Lena Heady being heavily pregnant at the time, so how hard could it be for them to find a way to get few head and shoulder shots of Violet running through the forest? If they had thought it that far through they might already have got that scrap of footage during season three shooting. A double could do the actual running and err…stuff

    There is just something about that trailer that makes me think – whoever the actress is, she is not going to get a huge amount of screen time in season four.

    I don’t think Kyra is going to make an appearance. Half Kyra’s role has already been cannibalized by Osha in season three. If they cast two whores for Ramsey, and Myranda gets to be fake Arya, it makes sense that Violet gets the other half of Kyra’s role, and Reek ends up petting a dog called Violet as he tries not to contemplate escaping with Myranda.

  118. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    Baelor Bookends! Gods that was a good opening shot, but Jaime’s last line was even better. Oberyn having his very last kiss with Ellaria, and some good music in the background (not a big fan off the lyrics though). Also, Ramsay’s other girl (Violet) at 0:56, being hunted by Myranda!?!?!

  119. Red Hound
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 5:34 am | Permalink

    About the music, I feel that last season’s “The Game has Changed” from Tron’s soundtrack was an amazing idea. I wished they would have taken a similar risk this season. Otherwise, very solid trailers.

  120. Talisa's ghost
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 5:50 am | Permalink

    I’m amused by the fact that so many people seem to have difficulty recognizing NCW’s voice when he himself is not seen. The man is not exactly a baritone, his voice is really kind of high.

    I usually recognize the actors’ voices, the lines are a bit difficult at times because of the fake english accents that sometimes sound very fake. I didn’t understand a word of what Dinklage was saying at first, but maybe it’s because his accent sounded jamaican for some reason.

  121. Don't care
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 5:57 am | Permalink

    Hey guys there an in-depth recap by a user of what goes on in episode 1 on reddit. Its really awesome read and the episode sounds amazing; read it if you want to be spoiled on the episode.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/20s46w/spoilers_all_including_s4e01_so_ive_seen_the/

  122. UnbowedUnbentUnhodor
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    Don’t care:
    Hey guys there an in-depth recap by a user of what goes on in episode 1 on reddit. Its really awesome read and the episode sounds amazing; read it if you want to be spoiled on the episode.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/20s46w/spoilers_all_including_s4e01_so_ive_seen_the/

    omg yes!

  123. Nini
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 6:23 am | Permalink
  124. Billybob
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 6:40 am | Permalink

    Nini,

    Anything new in it? Video is not available in my country :(

  125. Maginor
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    Billybob,

    A shot of Mance running through the woods and a shot of Cersei that looks like it is her realizing that Joffrey is dead and is about to accuse Tyrion (Joff and Tyrion are not in the shot, but that is what it looks like)

  126. Annara Ho
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    Maginor,

    Can you download the video and upload it somewhere?

  127. Laurentius
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 7:23 am | Permalink

    Nini:
    “Awaken” Ad

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdZwGy3aDl4

    Caesar in Gaul

  128. Turncloak
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    Don’t care:
    Hey guys there an in-depth recap by a user of what goes on in episode 1 on reddit. Its really awesome read and the episode sounds amazing; read it if you want to be spoiled on the episode.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/20s46w/spoilers_all_including_s4e01_so_ive_seen_the/

    Sooooo goood! Ser Arthur Dayne the Sword of the Morning!!! Can’t wait!

  129. Delta1212
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    Hodor Targaryen,

    I tend to agree. I think the show is nearing its peak. If it hasn’t reached it already, it has at most one or two seasons left to build steam and then it’s just going to be about retaining interest rather than building it. We may even have reached that point sometime this season.

    That said, I do have to acknowledge that GoT has something that most long serialized dramas do not: the writers knew the plot beats that we’re coming many seasons in advance and there was at least one person who knew roughly where the story was heading for the finale before the show even premiered.

    Most shows lose steam because the writers use up their initial ideas in the first few seasons and then founder a bit because the medium wants to stretch success out for as many seasons as possible and cut off anything less as quickly as possible. Coming into that with a full series arc mapped out to the end is just not a good idea because it’s unlikely to pan out.

    With GoT, they had a detailed road map ahead of time, and even if AFfC and ADwD weren’t the top books in the series, adapting them provides an opportunity to pare down some of the less manageable elements and fix the one glaring problem I think most people had with AFfC.

    This is a rare case where we’re heading into season 4 of a completely serialized show and the pace of the plotting is actually going to continue picking up rather than faltering as the writers try to figure out what the hell to do with this huge cast now that they’ve run through their initial plan. (See, for instance, True Blood pretty much immediately following season 1 or Lost season 3).

    The only show I can think of off the top of my head that has managed a fully serialized narrative that kept picking up the pace through season 4 is Breaking Bad (I’m aware there are others I’m not thinking of at the moment) and while they didn’t have a plot arc mapped out to the end, they had a very specific character arc to work toward that informed most plot decisions. They knew where they wanted to go even if they didn’t know how to get there. GoT already has a rough outline for both.

    So I guess we’ll see how much of an impact having good source material and actually sticking to it has on the longevity of the show. I will certainly be interested to find out.

  130. wondorog
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    What if Brienne meet Gendry at King’s Landing, and he tell her for some reason that Arya is with the Brotherhood. Gendry join Brienne, but when they find the Brotherhood, SH waits for them.

  131. Ser Maester
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    Arthur,

    Do you mean The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon? Or Late Night with Seth Meyers?

  132. sati
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    Nini:
    “Awaken” Ad

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdZwGy3aDl4

    Guys can someone reupload it?

  133. Ser Maester
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    wondorog,

    This was sorta my theory after Season 3, but The actor who plays Gendry wasn’t listed among the returning main cast by HBO, and no one has spotted him filming, so it looks like he isn’t in Season 4, or if he is, he’s not in it very much at all.

  134. Darkstar
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    Don’t care:
    Hey guys there an in-depth recap by a user of what goes on in episode 1 on reddit. Its really awesome read and the episode sounds amazing; read it if you want to be spoiled on the episode.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/20s46w/spoilers_all_including_s4e01_so_ive_seen_the/

    I clicked on the reddit link but made the tough decision that I really don’t want to be spoiled anymore. This, of course, is subject to change at any time. It will be a long 18 more days.

  135. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    It’s so hard not to watch this trailer :,(

  136. Sean
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    Darkstar: I clicked on the reddit link but made the tough decision that I really don’t want to be spoiled anymore. This, of course, is subject to change at any time. It will be a long 18 more days.

    I hovered over it for a good minute then made the same choice that you did. I find watching trailers and being a member of the sullied is enough spoilerage for me going into the show.

  137. Delta1212
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    Sean: I hovered over it for a good minute then made the same choice that you did. I find watching trailers and being a member of the sullied is enough spoilerage for me going into the show.

    I clicked it and made it halfway through the first sentence before deciding I’d rather wait to watch it myself.

  138. SerKenjiGerrard
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    The restraint that’s going into not reading that review right now…

  139. Jimmy
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Ser Maester,

    i find unlikely he isn’t in the cast anymore, after Robb death GoT needs an eye-candy for the girls. maybe we will see him later in the serie.

  140. Got2Got
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    Meh, I’ve read the books, i don’t mind spoiling the first episode lol.

  141. Anonymous
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    Darkstar,

    I’ve only watched the first trailer.

    I felt some of my enjoyment of last season was taken away after I watched all of the trailers and available footage. Too many times I would recognize what I have already seen beforehand during the season.

    Next year will be different because I will really, really want to know how they are going to do the rest of books 4 and 5.

  142. Hounded
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    Jimmy,

    What about Jon, Jaime, Ramsay, Loras and Oberyn?

  143. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    Ser Maester:
    wondorog,

    This wassorta my theory after Season 3, but The actor who plays Gendry wasn’t listed among the returning main cast by HBO, and no one has spotted him filming, so it looks like he isn’t in Season 4, or if he is, he’s not in it very much at all.

    I really wouldn’t rely on the press release too much. Not everyone is listed – we know that people will return who aren’t listed (Pod, Gilly, Shireen, Selyse, Selmy, to name just a few), and we know there are new people that aren’t listed (Nu Tommen Dean-Charles Chapman for example). We are still missing one regular, since EW knew from HBO there would be 29 at the start of the season, and the press release lists 28 (and Pedro Pascal, who would have been my guess for a regular, is apparently recurring.).

    I’m pointing this out so much, because if he gets a storyline, it would be new even to book readers, and I think they would try really, really hard to keep that secret. And think not only of this situation, but the future, when we may have situations like the Hound or Jon “dying” – I doubt they would list those on a press release for the next season.

    Jimmy:
    Ser Maester,

    i find unlikely he isn’t in the cast anymore, after Robb death GoT needs an eye-candy for the girls. maybe we will see him later in the serie.

    lol, I object to the idea that this is the only reason, but it is obviously one of the reasons. ;)

  144. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    Hounded:
    Jimmy,

    What about Jon, Jaime, Ramsay, Loras and Oberyn?

    The more the merrier. And Ramsay is a difficult case, since while Iwan certainly makes pulses increase, his character is… special.

    Also, you guys really underestimate the number of fans that followed Joe Dempsie religiously from his Skins days. None of the others have that, not even Iwan. Kit maybe has it now.

  145. Hounded
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Satin,

    Yeah I’m aware Joe Dempsie is very popular – he is very good (and chris was my favourite character from Skins). Hannah Murray (Gilly) is another Skins alumni.

    There’s quite a few cast members who used to be in Misfits – Iwan Rheon, Natalie Emmanuel, Ellie Kendrick.

    And of course from Rome there’s Ciarin Hinds, Tobias Menzies and Indira Varma.

  146. Strider
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 10:11 am | Permalink


    Satin,
    Talisa’s ghost
    :
    I usually recognize the actors’ voices, the lines are a bit difficult at times because of the fake english accents that sometimes sound very fake. I didn’t understand a word of what Dinklage was saying at first, but maybe it’s because his accent sounded jamaican for some reason.

    In this case Iwan’s voice with that Stark quote, is continued with Nikolaj’s very smooth transition pointing out to Arya as the Stark girl missing. That may be one of the reasons I did not realize on first viewing that the second part of that voiceover was really NWC, at least not until he spoke the last word “killed”. Also it was all over quickly.

  147. Fatio Corcyn
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    Thanks to both guys who linked to the ep. 1 recap. Seems like a quite intense first episode, and it might be the best starter to date, actually.

    The wait is being totally ridiculous.

  148. Ser Maester
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    Jimmy,

    I’m sure we’ll see him again. It’s very weird that they elevated him to main cast in Season 3, but apparently didn’t bring him back for 4. I’m assuming Kit Harrington and Pedro Pascal will be sufficient eye candy, but I’m not really an expert on that subject.

  149. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    Hounded,

    Gilly and Chris were my favourites, too, though I didn’t watch Skins when it aired – I saw the first two seasons after Hannah was cast on GOT (I confess I don’t like the show that much, but it’s probably more of an age thing – I was always torn between wishing someone would call child services and yelling at Sid to wash his hair).

    Ellie was on Misfits, too? I didn’t know that. Pyp/Josef Altin is in the very first episode, actually, he’s the kid who gets killed by the social worker.

    I love the fact that you can watch the show and recognize people from pretty much everywhere. A lot of them were on Doctor Who, too.

    Strider,

    I think it’s also a fairly simple psychological trick – when you see someone, and hear a voice, you’ll believe the person on screen is speaking.

  150. Ser Maester
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    Satin,

    While I’m aware that most of the recurring cast isn’t mention, it would be impossible to do that, I’m pretty sure anyone who’s in the main cast would be mentioned. I don’t think they would downgrade him from main cast to guest cast, they’ve never done that. Also, I’m assuming Pascal was the unspecified 29th. He was listed as “New Cast” member, while the people in the main cast list where specified as “returning” hence the reason he was unmentioned there.

  151. Delta1212
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    Strider,

    It was very smooth. The first time through, my thoughts went something like “Who is that talking? Is that Ramsay-oh no wait, it’s Jaime, silly me.”

  152. Shmofo
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    Read the recap. Spoiled and soiled, and don’t regret it a bit.

    Any chance some altruist was filming the premiere and another altruist sharing the link? I’m an altruist, too, I’m not asking it for myself, but for my nephew’s neighbour’s girlfriend. It’s illegal, I know, but it’s not morally wrong, if you are not doing it for your own benefit, but to help a fellow human being.

  153. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    Ser Maester,

    but see, I think if they want to keep it secret that someone is in the main cast, they would leave them off the press release. They wouldn’t be lying, their cast lists always say “includes.”

    As for downgrading, I’m sure Michelle Fairley will be a special guest star when Stoneheart arrives. I’d think in this case it would be unlikely, too, but if he’s really only in shortly – who knows.

    I get your point about Pedro, but there was an interview with him at Galo.com where it was pointed out his role was recurring.

    Shmofo,

    I’d bet they confiscated all phones, etc.

  154. TheWolfOfWinterfell
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    Rygar,

    Tbone Burnette? Really? I don’t know about that… Not that there is anything wrong with T bone, and I haven’t loved the last 3 but Chelsea Wolfe on the first one ruled. More Cwolfe.

  155. Ser Maester
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    Satin,

    I guess I see your point, but I don’t think they’d be so serious to hide Gendry’s return as to not include him on the cast list. I mean, it wouldn’t actually be that much of a shocker if he did turn out to have his own storyline this season.

  156. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Ser Maester,

    totally not a shocker, but still something book readers wouldn’t know. They’ve been very secretive this season, and I would be curious if they would go this far seeing that we have other storylines coming up where it would also make sense to hide returning main cast members – I’m thinking of the Hound, and especially Jon at the end of ADWD.

  157. Jimmy
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    Satin,

    well Joe is a good actor but i said that bc D&D said the same about Madden, and since he’s gone they should replace him.

  158. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    I would throw Grey Worm into the eye candy too.

    Regarding the trailer music, I liked the Chelsea Wolfe song a lot but the rest has left me tepid this season. Just generic mainstream indie type rock. I wish they’d use Waiting for the Night by Depeche Mode or Evil Seeds by the Raveonettes.

  159. Balerion The Cat
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    sati,

    Can someone download this video and upload it back to youtube so that all of us can see it. We, international people, would be very grateful! Thank you!

  160. sati
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    Balerion The Cat:
    sati,

    Can someonedownload this video and upload it back to youtube so that all of us can see it. We, international people, would be very grateful! Thank you!

    Well yeah that is what I was asking for. Seems it’s only available for Norway, Denmark and Estonia.

  161. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    Jimmy,

    you definitely have a point, I was maybe a little overly thorough.

  162. Sean C.
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    Don’t care:
    Hey guys there an in-depth recap by a user of what goes on in episode 1 on reddit. Its really awesome read and the episode sounds amazing; read it if you want to be spoiled on the episode.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/20s46w/spoilers_all_including_s4e01_so_ive_seen_the/

    Ugh, fuck this show. They’re cutting Sansa’s role in her own escape. So much for Sansa finally becoming more active this season.

  163. Hounded
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    You haven’t even seen the episode…

  164. Sean C.
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 11:50 am | Permalink

    Hounded:
    You haven’t even seen the episode…

    Um, so what? I can quite plainly see the implications of the plot as described. They’ve reintroduced Dontos and given Sansa the hairnet without any mention of escape, which will be happening in the next episode, and said episode set entirely in the course of the wedding day. Given that, it’s blatantly obvious.

  165. Jordan
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    I’m pretty positive that escape has to come up (you know, in episode 2) given that Littlefinger has to make sure that Sansa leaves Kings Landing/isn’t caught, so Dontos has to tell her of a meeting place in advance- he can’t just chance finding her when chaos erupts.

    It’s definitely condensing things, but there’s no reason to assume (as you are doing) that this will be Sansa’s only meeting with Dontos prior to Joff’s assassination.

    I do “like” the fact you are judging the whole show on the basis of an episode (and entire season) you haven’t seen yet.

    How bout you wait to at least watch the first two episodes before declaring the show is ruined?

  166. King Tommen
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.: Ugh, fuck this show.They’re cutting Sansa’s role in her own escape.So much for Sansa finally becoming more active this season.

    Yes, I believe analyzing 1 scene (which you haven’t even seen) in the first episode is enough reason to go overboard and make a sweeping generalization. Sounds like you’re really in a level-headed place right now.

  167. Hounded
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    That could still happen in the second ep. And anyway the point still stands – you could at least reserve judgement til you’ve actually seen the episode. Stating ‘fuck this show’ just seems kind of pathetic.

  168. Rygar
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    Because I have. And she’s naked in almost every scene.

  169. Jordan
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    I will admit that it is a bit not encouraging (assuming the Redditor remembered correctly) that escape isn’t mentioned right away. Not just for the reasons Sean C mentioned, but also because Joffrey’s death should be sort of a surprise, shouldn’t it?- and Dontos mentioning escape prior to it kind of sets things up (which is why I can see Sean C’s prediction being correct) .

  170. Sean C.
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    Jordan:
    It’s definitely condensing things

    No, that’s the thing, it isn’t “condensing things”. In the book Sansa met Dontos in the Godswood and he told her that he wanted to help her escape. In the show, Dontos meets Sansa in the Godswood (note that they also eliminated her courage in going to meet him in the middle of the night, uncertain of what she would find there) and babbles to remind the audience who he is, and gives her the plot-device necklace. There’s no reason for the show to change that but one: they want to “surprise” the audience, at the cost of Sansa’s agency and character development, yet again.

    Your argument about the complexities of grabbing her in the middle of the wedding would make sense, but that’s exactly the sort of thing the show has ignored in the past (and, indeed, numerous fan posts were arguing that that was what the show should do back when people were arguing for the Purple Wedding to be in episode 3.10).

    Hounded:
    That could still happen in the second ep. And anyway the point still stands – you could at least reserve judgement til you’ve actually seen the episode. Stating ‘fuck this show’ just seems kind of pathetic.

    See above, the only conceivable reason for this change is because they don’t want to show anything going on before Joffrey dies, so no, I’m not expecting it to happen later.

    “Reserve judgement” on what? Cutting Sansa’s agency is categorically bad, particularly as her escape is by far her most significant achievement in the books to date, and they’ve already completely sacrificed one part of it, her bravery in meeting with Dontos.

    Nowhere did I say “the show was ruined”. I said that if they’re cutting Sansa’s role in her own escape, I have no hope for her story this season being a major improvement on last year, since that was the only significant individual action she had in the story. The rest is purely reactive.

  171. Rygar
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    TheWolfOfWinterfell,

    Yes. he did wonders with elevating scenes in True Detective. If anyone can use modern popular music (or obscure modern music ) its him. No cheesy cover renditions of INXS or Enya or whatever Yanni mixes they have been using. No disrespect to the New Age vibe, but some of it makes me vomit in my mouth a bit.

  172. Rygar
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    Are you basing your disappointment on how this relates to the plot of the show or from what you know happens in the book? Because if its the latter than you have failed.

    I think taking a summary out of context from the episode and being disappointed by it is a bit premature when you haven’t seen the episode.

    And I didn’t read the summary and have intention of being spoiled.

  173. Sean C.
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    Are you basing your disappointment on how this relates to the plot of the show or from what you know happens in the book?Because if its the latter than you have failed.

    I’m not clear what you mean here.

    I think taking a summary out of context from the episode and being disappointed by it is a bit premature.

    What “context”? We got a clear summary of Sansa’s plot in that episode, literally the only episode before the wedding escape should happen. It seems quite feasible to assess how the writers are setting up the plot based on that and the remaining time constraints.

    If they hadn’t had him give her the necklace I might have some hope, but they did, so I don’t. They’ve now accomplished the only relevant pre-wedding action if you approach this story caring only about plot coupons, which is how they’ve approached Sansa’s story since at least season 3.

  174. JonSnow19
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    Sorry for the double comment , the first time it didn’t appear so i logged with another email

  175. Rygar
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    I mean, are you comparing what happened in the books to what doesn’t in the show? If so, then you should take a step back and just view what happens in the episode as it relates to the show.

    The context of the episode. The change may make sense if you watch the episode.

    And I can’t read your defense as I am avoiding spoilers.

  176. Sean C.
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    JonSnow17:
    Sean C You are such a fucking loser to criticise something based on a third party summary of someone who may not remember all the details of the scene in particular

    Uh huh, I’m sure that Dontos convincing Sansa to join his escape plan, which would be the main object of the scene, somehow slipped the viewer’s mind.

    Rygar:
    I mean, are you comparing what happened in the books to what doesn’t in the show?If so, then you should take a step back and just view what happens in the episode as it relates to the show.

    How does gutting Sansa’s agency somehow change meanings if you look at it in your way?

    The context of the episode.The change may make sense if you watch the episode.

    Again, how will “the context of the episode” change the writers completely changing the meeting in a such a way that makes it feasible to have Sansa not participate at all in the plot, when said plot will be executed next episode?

    Subtle nuances of characterization, implications, pacing, etc. cannot be divined from summaries like this, or else are matters of opinion. The plot superstructure is not difficult to understand and judge, particularly as this plot exists in isolation from the others and would not be impacted by the rest of the episode.

  177. JonSnow19
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    Rygar It’s useless to add sense to someone who comes from Censoros, he made the same stupid posts there too although that’s not a surprise giving that site is awful .

  178. JonSnow19
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    So what, i don’t understand why are you mad in the first place, is it just because of that or that it didn’t happen in the first episode ?

  179. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    From all I’ve seen I’m pretty sure Sean C. hates the show version of Sansa, so waiting what it will be like in the context of the show likely won’t help.

  180. Rygar
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    Fear not. Soon you will not have to worry how things happened in the books. And you keep avoiding my direct questions.

  181. Sean C.
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    JonSnow19:
    Rygar It’s useless to add sense to someone who comes from Censoros, he made the same stupid posts there too although that’s not a surprise giving that site is awful .

    I always find it amusing that every fansite seems to have people who despise every other fansite. Though you evidently read it.

    And I’m not “from” anywhere. As with you, I observe and participate in fan discussions everywhere.

    So what, i don’t understand why are you mad in the first place, is it just because of that or that it didn’t happen in the first episode ?

    What is “that”? If it does happen in the second episode, I would have no problem with that. The rather obvious point is that I don’t believe it will happen in the second episode.

    Rygar:
    And you keep avoiding my direct questions.

    What “direct questions”?

    Satin:
    From all I’ve seen I’m pretty sure Sean C. hates the show version of Sansa, so waiting what it will be like in the context of the show likely won’t help.

    Again, what “context”? Do you mean the context of the show cutting all of Sansa’s active plot?

  182. Rygar
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    Satin,

    Hate her? She’s the hottest actor on the show next to Jorah.

  183. JonSnow19
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    That’s true, i assume by next year we will be done with all these useless comparisons between books and show and only criticise the show on it’s own AS IT SHOULD BE .

  184. Strider
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

    JonSnow19,

    NAME CALLING!!! AWESOME.

    Sean C is no “fucking loser” based on a cry of disappointment criticizing a TV show, because his fave character might not get the description he thinks she deserves. And book nerds rule!

    I love seeing personal attacks such as these. Make the book nerds look all classy! Yes, I am one. Not a purist mind you, but a book fan.

  185. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    how can you say that, when there is still Grandmaester Pycelle?

  186. Rygar
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    Are you basing your disappointment off your knowledge of the books?

    Circle one. Y or N

  187. JonSnow19
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    @Sean C So let me get this straight, you assume that particular plot point will not happen in the second episode , so what are you, Nostradamus ? How are you so sure that’s not going to happen especially now that we know the wedding will not take all the episode but half of it ?

  188. Sean C.
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    Are you basing your disappointment off your knowledge of the books?

    Yes, that should be rather obvious. The show is an adaptation of the books. When the show changes the books in a way that categorically diminishes a character (and there is no conceivable version of this change that will not do that), there is cause for complaint.

    Can you offer why you think gutting Sansa’s agency will be a good thing?

    JonSnow19:
    @Sean C So let me get this straight, you assume that particular plot point will not happen in the second episode , so what are you, Nostradamus ?

    I already explained the reasoning. There’s no reason to change the first meeting that way, given the tight deadline, except that they don’t want to bring up the escape prior to the Purple Wedding so as not to spoil the “surprise” of Joffrey’s death by suggesting anything untoward is going on.

    If I’m wrong, I’ll be happy to be wrong.

  189. Rygar
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    Strider,

    Absolutely correct. For once. ;)

  190. JonSnow19
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    Strider I like the books too, well the first three actually and i get dissapointed too when some thing gets marginalised like the Jon story or Bran but i don’t like to criticise things based on someone else’s thought on a particualr episode, that’s just stupid .

  191. Rygar
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    OK. So that’s the root cause of your issue. All I am saying is try and step away from any prejudices and you may not be so upset.

    But if ranting and raving is your thing go ahead. I’ll cease with any assistance with assuaging your plight.

    Again, I am not reading the spoilers so if you want me to fully understand your POV, then avoid the tags.

  192. jentario
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    So… Has anyone seen the episode yet? Or is the fan screening some other time? I want some genuine reviews here, no details, just a grade.

  193. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    Today I think! I know a couple of people here said they were going.

    ETA: wait, no, tomorrow, JonSnow19 is right. It’s 20th March.

    As for the reddit poster’s overall, spoiler-free verdict:

    “It’s a treat. It moves fast. There is a lot crammed in, but it flows well.”

    If you want to know who doesn’t appear they said no Team Dragonstone, no Boltons, no Greyjoys.

  194. JonSnow19
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    jentario I think tomorrow is the public premiere .

  195. Sean C.
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    OK. So that’s the root cause of your issue.All I am saying is try and step away from any prejudices and you may not be so upset.

    So your argument is that I should just stop caring about Sansa’s character and maybe I’d enjoy the show more? That’s probably true, given the show’s awful handling of her, but I don’t see how that is a defence of the show.

    Again, I am not reading the spoilers so if you want me to fully understand your POV, then avoid the tags.

    It’s rather difficult to have a discussion about the significance of spoilers with someone who doesn’t want to read spoilers.

  196. Rygar
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    Awful how? Based on the books? I wouldn’t know. She’s one of my favorite characters in the show and I think Sophie has done an amazing job. She portrays silent emotion with brillance. Her storyline is pretty well structured and her rise from being a love lost young girl to a tormented captive has been a highlight of the show.

  197. Sean C.
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:

    Awful how? Based on the books?

    Yes, precisely. Show!Sansa is a hollow shell of her book self, and has lost all her agency.

  198. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    Sean C.,

    Awful how? Based on the books?I wouldn’t know.She’s one of my favorite characters in the show and I think Sophie has done an amazing job. She portrays silent emotion with briilance.Her storyline is pretty well structured and her rise from being a love lost young girl to a tormented captive has been a highlight of the show.

    seconded.

  199. Don't care
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    You know you’re annoying when people on Westeros.org tell you to shut the fuck up.

  200. cosca
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    book readers really are scum

  201. Rabid Grunt
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.: Yes, precisely.Show!Sansa is a hollow shell of her book self, and has lost all her agency.

    I think she’s better.

  202. JonSnow19
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    cosca Yes they are the scum of the earth .

  203. Rygar
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    cosca,

    I wouldn’t go so far as to insult them. They are just misguided and add more unnessary tension in their lives by comparing two different mediums. Two mediums that have been in conflict with each other for over a hundred years. A conflict, that is largely won by the written word as being determined as “superior” to the other.

  204. John M W
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Rabid Grunt: I think she’s better.

    +1

    I couldn’t stand Sansa in the books. But I love her character in the show, and I think Sophie’s done a phenomenal job.

  205. Sean C.
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    Rabid Grunt: I think she’s better.

    Better because, what, she stands around doing nothing, which is what people incorrectly claim Book!Sansa does when they attack her? Because she provides so many hilarious jokes about how dumb she is?

    Rygar:
    cosca,

    I wouldn’t go so far as to insult them. They are just misguided and add more unnessary tension in their lives by comparing two different mediums. Two mediums that have been in conflict with each other for over a hundred years. A conflict, that is largely won by the written word as being determined as “superior” to the other.

    None of the changes I’m complaining about have anything to do with “the differences between media”. There are many changes in the adaptation that are a result of media differences and which I have no problem with.

  206. jentario
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    I have to agree with Rygar. Overall, the show is still faithful to the books and their general story. I personally can overlook the little details and separate the books from the show. And that’s how you can enjoy it, otherwise you’d flip your shit more than a few times during an episode. I love the show for every time it gets something right (almost always) rather than hate it for every time it screws up.

  207. Rygar
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    Sean, it has everything to do with them. You are not going to get all the details and nuances of character in a TV show that you will from a book. A show is going to have to make alterations from the text to tell a condensed and cohesive story. So comparing the two is futile. You will never be fullfilled.

    Like Jentatio states, focus on what’s the same and not what’s different to get the most enjoyment out of both.

  208. Sean C.
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    jentario,
    I have no problem with changes. The show has made many changes that I approve of, and in discussions around adapting the future books I’ve been quite vocal about the need to make changes in order to fit them into orderly, manageable seasons of TV. Even changes that make the characters very different from their book counterparts don’t inherently bother me, as, for instance, with the TV version of Shae, who is a completely different character, but who works in both formats. But the TV version of Sansa is manifestly inferior to the book version in every way, different in ways that did not need to be changed for the medium, and if I were judging her solely on her TV presentation she would not interest me in the slightest, as the writers have managed to make everything people incorrectly state about the book version (that she’s dumb, that she just stands around doing nothing) true about the TV version. My only interest in TV Sansa, apart from Sophie Turner’s terrific acting, is to hope that Sophie will start to get to actually play the character’s best material, rather than constantly having it removed or gutted.

    Rygar:
    Sean, it has everything to do with them.You are not going to get all the details and nuances of character in a TV show that you will from a book.

    These are not “nuances” that I’m talking about, they’re the broad details of the character’s arc. If they were replacing the book character’s arc with something that was equally worthwhile (as, again, they did with Shae), that wouldn’t bother me. But TV Sansa, on her own, would never interest me.

  209. Lex
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

    So not watching this. No more spoilery trailers for me.

  210. redviper
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    The Bastard,

    I’m with you Bastard … love the books, loving the adaptation … no bitching/whining from this end ….

  211. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    John M W: +1

    I couldn’t stand Sansa in the books. But I love her character in the show, and I think Sophie’s done a phenomenal job.

    I like both. But having an actor play a character often makes it easier to empathise with them, and Sophie does a great job. Personally I have the dislike-like thing with Arya. Since she’s so obviously meant to be Your Favourite Character at least in the first two books, she honestly irritated me, but Maisie luckily changed that.

  212. Mister Stoneheart
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    John M W,

    I wish I could agree, but I feel the role has been watered down, and the actress is a bit stiff and wooden. She’s best when she’s not speaking, though I admit she is getting better.

    My biggest concern with snipping away Sansa’s story is if it interferes with Lysa. The actress and the character are incredibly memorable, even if the page time is short. Don’t short shrift my Lysa!!!!

  213. John M W
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    Mister Stoneheart:
    John M W,

    I wish I could agree, but I feel the role has been watered down, and the actress is a bit stiff and wooden.She’s best when she’s not speaking, though I admit she is getting better.

    The world would be a boring place if we all agreed on everything. ;)

  214. MM
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    I do think that Sean C. is overreacting, but then, I’ve always found the way certain fans feel compelled to protect a fictional character against all slights–whether real or perceived–and to complain at great length at any hint of less than glowing treatment of a fictional character–whether real or perceived–a bit odd. I’d call them the crazy hockey parents of fandom, except I have yet to see any hockey parent as insanely overprotective of their child as some fans are of Sansa.

  215. Rygar
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    Again details that a non book reader would have no concern over. Again Sansa, and more importantly Sophie’s portrayal of her, has been exemplary. I am in awe of her ability to bring life to a character with little or no dialogue. I love how she still has this child-like innocence even when faced with her current dire situation. Sophie is similar to Maisie, with her amazing ability to show maturity and soft adolescence at the same time. I find so much enjoyment from watching them both and I still feel that Sansas scenes with Tyrion in S3 were some of the best in the series.

  216. Sean C.
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    MM:
    I do think that Sean C. is overreacting, but then, I’ve always found the way certain fans feel compelled to protect a fictional character against all slights–whether real or perceived–and to complain at great length at any hint of less than glowing treatment of a fictional character–whether real or perceived–a bit odd. I’d call them the crazy hockey parents of fandom, except I have yet to see any hockey parent as insanely overprotective of their child as some fans are of Sansa.

    When you consider the insane levels of misogynistic bile heaped on Sansa from much of the fandom, it’s hardly surprising that people defending her are aggressive.

  217. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    Yes. The Brotherhood Without Previews.

  218. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    So let me get this straight, Sean, you actually think Sansa will have no idea about the escape? Is Dontos going to walk right up to the dais and abduct her during the wedding feast?

  219. redviper
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    OMFG – you people who just bicker back and forth like high school mean girls is just absolutely ridiculous!

    Settle down, take a breath, and relax …

    This is supposed to be a site for people who enjoy the show to connect and gush about their common passion for this amazing story, not a bunch of cubicle-dwelling malcontents who have nothing better to do with their time then take their frustrations out on line!

    Join a gym, take a vacation, meditate … just chill dammit!!!

  220. Silverstormm
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    cosca:
    book readers really are scum

    JonSnow19:
    coscaYes they are the scum of the earth .

    Rygar:
    cosca,

    I wouldn’t go so far as to insult them. They are just misguided and add more unnessary tension in their lives by comparing two different mediums. Two mediums that have been in conflict with each other for over a hundred years. A conflict, that is largely won by the written word as being determined as “superior” to the other.

    I think that’s a bit much – I’m a book reader; I’ve never spoiled ANYone and hate those that do. I love the show and even though there are a couple of changes I’ve been disappointed over, I totally understand that the show is a seperate entity from the books and have NEVER complained about it. In fact the complainers get on my nerves! Therefore, PLEASE don’t tar us all with the same brush, it’s very insulting & unfair.

  221. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    Don’t care,

    Really. Enough with this Sansa crap. It’s one thing to bring it up occasionally, but this guy is obsessed. I’m sure we can look forward to him littering the episode threads with more complaints about how the show mishandled the best, most nuanced character in the story.

  222. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.: When you consider the insane levels of misogynistic bile heaped on Sansa from much of the fandom, it’s hardly surprising that people defending her are aggressive.

    I’m totally with you in defending her against misogynistic troglodytes (as well as any other female character), but the hatred some Sansa fans express against the show and the producers often seems misplaced. Sansa has always been a target for irrational hatred, because she is a character type that is traditionally vilified both in fiction and among readers and viewers, that didn’t start with the series (and we’ll have a long way to go until that sort of thing stops, unfortunately – people learn slow). There is a tendency to decry each and every decision the show makes about Sansa as proof that they are misogynists, and this kind of generalization buries any chance at coherent discussion.

  223. Rygar
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    Silverstormm,

    I believe “reader” and “purist” are being misused. And I don’t know why I need to state that. But I apologize as I was referring only to Sean and should not have generalized.

  224. Rygar
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    redviper,

    Um where does it say that about what this site should be?

    And you’re just as insulting as some of the other posters that you are bothered by.

  225. Sean C.
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    So let me get this straight, Sean, you actually think Sansa will have no idea about the escape? Is Dontos going to walk right up to the dais and abduct her during the wedding feast?

    Quite probably. If your argument is that it’s dumb, you’ll get no argument from me. But if you look at old comment threads here and elsewhere, you’ll see many people suggesting exactly that (particularly when some people were convinced it was happening in 3.10). And it’s very hard for me to think of any other reason for structuring it this way; it also plays into their desire for surprise, as when they aimed to eliminate all the foreshadowing of the Red Wedding from the text.

    Like I said, I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think I am.

    Satin:
    There is a tendency to decry each and every decision the show makes about Sansa as proof that they are misogynists, and this kind of generalization buries any chance at coherent discussion.

    “Misogynist” is a pretty heavy term to throw around (hatred of women), and it’s not one I would use in reference to the writers of the show. The show definitely has sexist aspects, especially in that they have a clear tendency to take characters from the books that challenge sexist gender norms and fit them into more acceptable molds (Brienne, for instance, has a lot of feminine romantic elements that are basically absent from the show version, who is a much more socially acceptable Warrior Woman). And a lot of their adaptation choices have implications that I expect they didn’t intend.

    The change I’ve been discussing here, if it was made, I expect exists out of their near-obsessive desire to generate “shock” moments rather than GRRM’s common choice of tension-filled buildup.

  226. Silverstormm
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    Precisely, maybe those that annoy non readers should be known as ‘rabid book fans’ rather than just readers…after all, I am sure the vast majority of readers are like myself. The rabid type are just more vocal and therefore, non readers equate book reader to rabid complainers. We aren’t all like that – honest!

    I’ve just read that Reddit and all the subsequent comments and the OP explains that it isn’t clear whether said jewellery is a necklace or a hair decoration. I recall seeing a filming photo with Sansa wearing a jewelled hair decoration so I’m pretty sure they simply changed the hair net for a hair decoration, bigdeal. Also just because Dontos doesn’t inform Sansa in episode 1 the reason he’s giving it to her is vital to her escape doesn’t mean that won’t happen in episode 2; in the books they meet in the godswood on more than one occasion and secondly, he is going to have to ensure she wears it to the purple wedding or risk the plan going pear shaped. So, I have every faith that it will happen almost identically the way it does in the book, therefore, I think some people are suffering from premature reaction in getting all butthurt over it!!
    Premature reaction – always a poor outcome, us ladies all know how annoying it is! Lolz.

  227. Sean C.
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    Silverstormm:
    in the books they meet in the godswood on more than one occasion

    Yes, but he tells her about the escape plan in the first meeting. The subsequent meetings are built on that foundation. There’s zero sense in saving that for a second, unnecessary scene when it could all have been done in one, and that’s totally contrary to the show’s narrative style anyway. Likewise, if there was to be more meetings, there’s no reason for him to give her the hairnet [which is probably not a hairnet, since in the images from the wedding that we've gotten she doesn't appear to be wearing one] on the first go, and pretend it isn’t related to the plan.

  228. redviper
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    Point taken. I just get really annoyed with the level of negativity that is displayed by some of the posters on a daily basis.

  229. MM
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    When you consider the insane levels of misogynistic bile heaped on Sansa from much of the fandom, it’s hardly surprising that people defending her are aggressive.

    Think about what you just said. Just as you’ve done in this thread with your lengthy complaints about Sansa’s treatment and your hilariously mournful “Ugh, fuck this show” knee-jerk reaction to an episode you haven’t even seen, certain fans feel compelled to”defend” Sansa from any hint of ill treatment, “aggressively” even. Here’s the thing, though. The person you’re “defending” as you see it is not a person. She’s a fictional character. Sansa is not your child. Nor is she the child of any fan defending her “aggressively.” She’s not even a sentient being. She’s a fictional character, a clump of words on a page. And yet fans leap in as her self-appointed advocates to “defend” her “aggressively” with a level of fanaticism I’ve never seen from any parent defending their child. I would suggest that maybe a little bit of perspective is in order.

  230. King Stannis
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    I never quite understood why some fans of the books complain about some changes. If they were huge fans themeselves maybe they shoulda made their own show before D&D and hopefully able to manage the money budget given and squeeze some story a length of an episode.

    The show is great! Obviously not all from the book can fit due to many reasons, money being one of them. Relax and enjoy the ride on this great series. Stannis!!

  231. Silverstormm
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.: Yes, but he tells her about the escape plan in the first meeting.The subsequent meetings are built on that foundation.There’s zero sense in saving that for a second, unnecessary scene when it could all have been done in one, and that’s totally contrary to the show’s narrative style anyway.Likewise, if there was to be more meetings, there’s no reason for him to give her the hairnet [which is probably not a hairnet, since in the images from the wedding that we've gotten she doesn't appear to be wearing one] on the first go, and pretend it isn’t related to the plan.

    As I said, from the filming photos I saw I’m pretty sure it’s a hair decoration which makes zero difference anyway. Also, there could be numerous reasons they changed the order of events, i.e. perhaps Dontos is being cautious and therefore, doesn’t tell Sansa of the plan until the last moment to reduce the chance of her getting cold feet, also regarding it making no sense to give her the gift without telling her why, again, perhaps the show understands that it’s more realistic to for an audience to build up even a tiny bit of trust before suddenly plonking an escape plan on someone?…the point is; we don’t know at this stage how it’s going to go down, it’s sheer speculation on your part and also on mine, ergo, to make such a sweeping statement in this instance is in my opinion premature. Until such time it actually happens in the way you dislike, to rant about it is simply inviting criticism.

  232. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.: “Misogynist” is a pretty heavy term to throw around (hatred of women), and it’s not one I would use in reference to the writers of the show.

    I’ve seen it used, and found it very exaggerated (and not incredibly helpful, as said). The show certainly has sexist aspects, but so do the books. Cersei is hardly an example for a successfully deconstructed sexist stereotype, to name just the most obvious case. As you say about the show, the books also have a lot of aspects GRRM likely didn’t intend, but that all women I personally know who have read the books noticed and criticised. It is very obvious the show is made with predominantly straight males in charge, much as it is very obvious that the books were written by a straight male.

    Brienne is interesting, actually – I agree that the show has changed her to a more conventionally jaded female warrior, but I think it works for her, especially as played by Gwendoline Christie, who is obviously not 18. She is still pretty idealistic, but the naiveté of the book character works a lot better for a much younger woman. I don’t feel that this change is owed to sexism so much as a necessary consequence of her being older and having acquired a certain tiredness of her world’s vitriolic hatred of women. I do like that she has a certain aspect of wanting to avenge women who have been wronged, that she actually seems to feel a greater comradry to women instead of “just” being chivalrous in general.

    I’m hesitant to assume they’ve changed that particular part of the storyline because of the description of one scene in one episode. I want to see it myself, I want to see the arc that comes from it. I think it is an attempt to let viewers not clue in at once that Littlefinger is behind this, because he already offered her to escape. I’m not having so much trouble with the show going for “shock value” in some cases – the Red Wedding had to come as a shock, I don’t think that was a bad decision – and we plainly don’t know if that will happen here. Maybe I’m senselessly optimistic; maybe you are too pessimistic. Bottomline, I want to see it first before I roll my eyes. There’s plenty of time for that if it happens.

  233. Sean C.
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    MM: Think about what you just said.Just as you’ve done in this thread with your lengthy complaints about Sansa’s treatment and your hilariously mournful “Ugh, fuck this show” knee-jerk reaction to an episode you haven’t even seen, certain fans feel compelled to”defend” Sansa from any hint of ill treatment, “aggressively” even. Here’s the thing, though. The person you’re “defending” as you see it is not a person. She’s a fictional character. Sansa is not your child. Nor is she the child of any fan defending her “aggressively.” She’s not even a sentient being. She’s a fictional character, a clump of words on a page. And yet fans leap in as her self-appointed advocates to “defend” her “aggressively” with a level of fanaticism I’ve never seen from any parent defending their child. I would suggest that maybe a little bit of perspective is in order.

    Fiction has always generated passion from the people who watch it, and that inspires both zeal in adoration and in critique. Duh, Sansa isn’t real. But her existence, how the show handles her, and how viewers react to her, has considerable implications for the “real world”.

    You keep emphasizing “haven’t even seen”, but the specific issue does not require it to be seen. It’s a very basic plot issue. Now, I agree that perhaps the writers have just made a bizarre structural choice and episode 2 will in fact have the thing I don’t think is going to be included in it. I hope so. But I watch and read a lot of fiction, and I’ve been analyzing this show quite thoroughly alongside everyone else here for several years, and I don’t think that’s the case.

  234. Leo
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    Someone on the spoiler Reddit post just said it’s mentioned in the episode that Catelyn’s body was thrown in the river.

  235. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    Silverstormm: Precisely, maybe those that annoy non readers should be known as ‘rabid book fans’ rather than just readers…after all, I am sure the vast majority of readers are like myself. The rabid type are just more vocal and therefore, non readers equate book reader to rabid complainers. We aren’t all like that – honest!

    No worries. Actual book reader here – though second generation, if you will – and have plenty of proof that not everyone is a rabidly negative purist. They are just usually the loudest.

  236. Sanna
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    The Making “Game of Thrones” Season 4 Costumes

    http:///www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmsDi4P-1YQ

  237. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Leo,

    well, but the person who opened the thread said there wasn’t any mention of her. The person who did is someone who allegedly saw the first three.

  238. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    Sanna,

    Sansa is wearing a necklace with a missing amethyst in this feature. That answers the question of whether or not it is a hairnet or necklace.

  239. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    Sanna,

    That was awesome! I can’t wait to see all those wedding scenes come together in the show! First vox-pops of Roger and Michiel as well, and Golden Hands +++

  240. Sean C.
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    Satin: I’ve seen it used, and found it very exaggerated (and not incredibly helpful, as said). The show certainly has sexist aspects, but so do the books. Cersei is hardly an example for a successfully deconstructed sexist stereotype, to name just the most obvious case.

    I was going to say something about Cersei in my original post but omitted it, and yes, I agree, the show has tried to make Cersei a more complex character than the books, though I’m not entirely sure if I like how that works in the narrative (much like the recent film version of The Great Gatsby tried to give Daisy depth, which worked at first, but unbalanced the ending). In some areas I think the writers have been very successful with their female characters, but they have a tendency to gravitate toward certain types, and women don’t fit into those types, like Sansa and Catelyn, suffer.

  241. Carne
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    Sanna,

    First good look at Roger Ashton-Griffiths as Mace Tyrell.

  242. Zeus
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    A lot of arguing based on a third party report. Wait until you see the show before you go insane. Have a glass of Hippocras and chill out

  243. Polish
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    Ok, thinking critically, fake-Arya has to be a part of the TV story. We’ve heard Alfie Allen make a reference to the “forgiving tree” scene he will have eventually. Which of course takes place in Winterfell. The whole pretense behind the Boltons being in Winterfell was the f-Arya wedding. Now of course, they could always come up with something else. But it seems to make sense that they would do this.

  244. Khal-A-Bunga
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    There was plenty of foreshadowing and build-up to the events in the Red Wedding. To say that it was all “eliminated” rings completely false, and certainly doesn’t strengthen any of the other points in your argument (if only because it shows a distinct lack of attention paid and/or sub-standard comprehension).

  245. MM
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    Sansa isn’t real. But her existence, how the show handles her, and how viewers react to her, has considerable implications for the “real world”.

    Except that Sansa is not an avatar for all women, everywhere, no more than Cersei, Ygritte, Dany, or any other female character in the books is. To treat her as such, and to treat any perceived attack on her as an attack on all women everywhere to be vigorously defended in the strongest language possible, is doing the character and ASOIAF a disservice. It also shows a strangely immature approach to the work. Admiration of a character is one thing, but appointing oneself the defender of a fictional character and sallying forth to defend that character on various fansites from perceived insults and perceived ill treatment at fans’ and the writers’ hands as if that character were a real person with real feelings to be hurt and real interests to be defended is beyond the pale. That’s an activity one would expect from a child incapable of appreciating the distinction, not adults who should know better.

    Now, I agree that perhaps the writers have just made a bizarre structural choice and episode 2 will in fact have the thing I don’t think is going to be included in it. I hope so. But I watch and read a lot of fiction, and I’ve been analyzing this show quite thoroughly alongside everyone else here for several years, and I don’t think that’s the case.

    So you admit that episode 2 could in fact contain the thing which would allay your fears, but you proceed to complain and whine about it in any event, since you “watch and read a lot of fiction.” Well, then, you couldn’t possibly be wrong, then! It couldn’t possibly be the case that those who disagree with you watch or read a lot of fiction either, and we couldn’t possibly have been analyzing the show for years as you have.

    …Do you even get how ridiculous you sound right now? Honestly.

    Moreover, there’s actually reason to believe that you’re wrong, which you’ve overlooked in your haste to whine about the show’s shortcomings:

    In the trailer, Sansa is clearly wearing the “Blackwater” purple dress at the Eyrie, both in the snow scene and the scene where she’s stalking through the halls looking angry. However, we know from stills that she did not wear the Blackwater dress to the wedding. Therefore, she must have had some advance warning and must have been in on the escape, since it’s not as if Dontos or Littlefinger could have packed that dress in advance for her, and it’s not as if she could pop back to her room to change in the chaos.

  246. Genevosey
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think LS is going to be in the show at all. and frankly that’s fine with me

  247. Skipjack
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    People who are looking ahead at the show episode spoilers and posting it are ruining what little surprise the show holds for book readers. It’s a different type of spoiler, and thoughtless. I have spoiler text off by default as I know what is coming, but I will have to leave this thread without hardly having read it, though I had wanted to see what people thought of the trailer. Oh well, we’ll get the real thing soon enough.

  248. JamesL
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    Genevosey,

    I don’t think she will be either an I actually hope she isn’t. Coldhands is the one I really want to see in the show and will be upset if he’s not.

  249. JamesL
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    I don’t see why every one is bitching at Sean C.. I think it is a stupid change too, not because I’m a huge Sansa fan but because it works better for dramatic purposes for him to her is going to help her escape at the wedding. It creates more intrigue and suspense, the audience is left wondering “who is this guy?”,”is he dangerous?”, “can she trust him?”, “how are they going to escape?”. Sean C is also right about how it seems like they are going for shock instead of suspense just like the Red Wedding. Elio from Westeros wrote a good critique of the RW about the lack of suspense or dread leading up to the chaos. I don’t like the D&D or show bashers either but people on this website can be just as annoying when they go after anyone who dares criticize the show.

  250. Yago
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    I’ll never understand this. Coldhands is a (for the show) pointless character that gets bran & co from one point to another. Leaving him out makes sense.

  251. Leo
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

    Yago,

    CH would be cool to see, but I agree. He’s tertiary. On the other hand, Lady Stoneheart is central to Jaime and Brienne’s future storylines in TWOW. You cannot cut her out.

  252. Ozymandias
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    That’s pretty much the opposite of my thought.

  253. Rygar
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    I love criticizing everything, show included. I just don’t judge the show based upon on what happened in the books. To me, the shows writing and directing is average. Where I think it excels is in the performances. And Sansa’s is particularly good and her storyline, for the most part, well told.

    Haven’t read Elios write up, but there was plenty of suspense and feeling of dread during that scene. I think Michele did a great job with demonstrating that. I knew the outcome and yet I had a pit in my stomach watching her realization and reaction. Now if you mean leading up to the actual mutiny, I’m glad they didn’t for the immediate shock value. In the book, you can see it coming a mile away, you just didnt realize how brutal it was going to be.

  254. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    It’s not the opinion, but the incessant stating of said opinion. I even noticed on that Reddit post that he made an appearance, stating bluntly “Fuck this show!” Passion is fine, but my lord, take it easy fella. There will obviously be some sort of impetus for her to disappear during the commotion of the event that will take place.

  255. Sean C.
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    Khal-A-Bunga:
    Sean C.,

    There was plenty of foreshadowing and build-up to the events in the Red Wedding. To say that it was all “eliminated” rings completely false, and certainly doesn’t strengthen any of the other points in your argument (if only because it shows a distinct lack of attention paid and/or sub-standard comprehension).

    “All” is perhaps an overstatement, but most of it was.

    MM: Except that Sansa is not an avatar for all women, everywhere, no more than Cersei, Ygritte, Dany, or any other female character in the books is

    Nowhere did I say that she was. But the treatment of Sansa as an individual clearly reflects many of the sexist problems in our society (you need only look at the insane levels of hate she receives, quite often in extremely misogynist terms).

    So you admit that episode 2 could in fact contain the thing which would allay your fears, but you proceed to complain and whine about it in any event, since you “watch and read a lot of fiction.” Well, then, you couldn’t possibly be wrong, then!

    Nowhere did I say I couldn’t be wrong. Lovely straw man you have there.

    In the trailer, Sansa is clearly wearing the “Blackwater” purple dress at the Eyrie, both in the snow scene and the scene where she’s stalking through the halls looking angry. However, we know from stills that she did not wear the Blackwater dress to the wedding. Therefore, she must have had some advance warning and must have been in on the escape, since it’s not as if Dontos or Littlefinger could have packed that dress in advance for her, and it’s not as if she could pop back to her room to change in the chaos.

    Ah, an actual interesting point! I shall hope that’s correct.

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    It’s notthe opinion, but the incessant stating of said opinion. I even noticed on that Reddit post that he made an appearance, stating bluntly “Fuck this show!”

    Er, yeah, I was the one who asked the question on Reddit, based on how the initial scene was described. That’s kind of how you get information.

  256. Hodor Targaryen
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.: Yes, precisely.Show!Sansa is a hollow shell of her book self, and has lost all her agency.

    Please say something about this supposed agency she had in the books. From what I can remember, she has always just been waiting around for things to happen to her. So I don’t think she really lost that in the adaptation.

    Your criticism of the Loras scene is fair, and I think you have mentioned before how the show cut out what growth she may have had from learning that the Tyrells were not actually genuine with her, which is also fair. But overall I think she’s been adapted very well, and the hyperbolic frustrations (“shallow shell,” really?) make it hard to take your criticisms seriously.

  257. Rygar
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    What heterosexual male will hate on Sansa? She’s fucking gorgeous.

  258. Satin
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.: I was going to say something about Cersei in my original post but omitted it, and yes, I agree, the show has tried to make Cersei a more complex character than the books, though I’m not entirely sure if I like how that works in the narrative (much like the recent film version of The Great Gatsby tried to give Daisy depth, which worked at first, but unbalanced the ending).In some areas I think the writers have been very successful with their female characters, but they have a tendency to gravitate toward certain types, and women don’t fit into those types, like Sansa and Catelyn, suffer.

    Since Show Cersei is one of my favourite characters, I do like it. She’s still far from a “nice” person, but she is a tragic character as opposed to a grotesquely evil caricature of an upperclass bullying twit. I do find her chapters hilarious due to a certain spiteful humour, but looking at her as a female character, and especially one of the few adult female characters who have a POV (the only remaining others would be Asha and Arianne, and they are both more than ten years younger), I find her pretty irritating.

    I’m hesitant to agree about the types idea… first of all, the writers generally gravitate to specific characters they write well, and often that corresponds to actors that click with them. I don’t know, it’s things like, the writing for Sam is generally better than for Jon, and that’s partly because Sam is a more flawed and more interesting character, and partly because John Bradley has a certain spark that makes Sam special beyond the writing.
    Jon of course is a very introspective character, and that goes for Sansa as well. It’s difficult to translate that adequately to the screen, and for Sansa it is even more difficult, because she constantly has to wear masks. They have to make her more obvious, because otherwise you’d have an actress sitting around and saying nothing in a polite way. I think even Peter Dinklage couldn’t portray that compellingly.

    Now I don’t think that all choices they made for Sansa worked, but some that have been brought up frankly astonished me. Specifically, Sansa doesn’t notice that Loras is gay – why would she? She didn’t grow up at a court, and while Cat is certainly worldly enough to know about these things – Ned? Er… not sure? – she wouldn’t tell her daughters about it.

    Sansa’s upbringing is a disadvantage for her, it makes her vulnerable and easier to manipulate (see the situation with Littlefinger). It’s also an advantage, because people think she’s dumber than she really is (i.e. Lady Olenna, who dismisses her because she’s just too cynical), which ultimately makes her live longer. I don’t think this is the show portraying Sansa as stupid or passive, I think they’re trying to give us different outside views of her – both sympathetic and unsympathetic – in an attempt to give a more rounded image. If that works depends on the viewer I think. It works for me, but I honestly give fuck all what other people – other viewers – think about her because I often like unpopular characters, and I’m too old to care how that makes the rest of the internet feel.

    This became a bit teal deer, sorry, and probably incoherent. I also haven’t even talked about Cat… I think Catelyn is generally a difficult character to adapt; I think GRRM wrote some things into the character he could have known would make it intensely difficult to see her in any objective way – does she have to hate every bastard on sight? Does she have to capture the guy you set up as Everybody’s Favourite Character? – and I think the show fucked up Cat releasing Jaime by not letting her think that Bran and Rickon are dead, and not letting her defend herself when Karstark yelled about her being a traitor. I don’t know if that is because she is a particular type of woman, or because that plot point was a bit weak in the first place, but I admit, that really wasn’t so hot.

    And this was Son of Teal Deer, so I’ll stop now. Sorry!

  259. Hodor Targaryen
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    I read Elio’s write-up, and thought it was kind of ridiculous. I think he translated “wasn’t exactly like in the books, the music wasn’t terrible like it was in the books,” and tried to translate that into a legitimate criticism. Once that one Frey closed the doors on the hall, it was kind of dread from then on out, with Catelyn’s depressed look, Arya not allowed into the wedding, and finally Roose Bolton’s slow turn to Catelyn. I also fail to see what they did differently from the book, other than the music, that lowered the level of buildup to the actual massacre.

  260. Greenjones
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

    Abyss,

    Has it still not gone through yet?

  261. Bill
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    Sean C.,

    Sean, it has everything to do with them.You are not going to get all the details and nuances of character in a TV show that you will from a book.A show is going to have to make alterations from the text to tell a condensed and cohesive story.So comparing the two is futile. You will never be fullfilled.

    Like Jentatio states, focus on what’s the same and not what’s different to get the most enjoyment out of both.

    You are being so reasonable today.

  262. Phil
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

    Admittedly, very few of us have seen the episode, and it’s not fair to say what is and isn’t in it til at least more people have had a chance to see the whole thing for themselves. But I have to agree with Sean’s original point. If the scene described is accurate and if it’s not covered episode 2 or whenever, it does represent a serious character change. They’ve done it before. Many people complained about Catelyn’s “character assassination” last season, and I for one HATE that they messed up Robb’s motivation for marrying “Talisa” I don’t think we should jump down Sean’s throat on this. It also doesn’t diminish that the show is still really good and for the most part is sticking to the books, but for those of us who are huge fans of the books, some of these changes are infuriating.

    For another example, look at how many people were annoyed at the changes to Faramir’s character in Lord of the Rings. Another adaptation that stuck mostly to the books, and was a wonderful adaption, yet I do understand why some of the changes infuriated the people who had read and loved the books before the movies came out.

  263. King in the North Carolina
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    Rygar:
    Sean C.,

    Because I have.And she’s naked in almost every scene.

    I KNOW you’re kidding. But still, I’ve read this post about 100 times, pretending it’s true.

  264. Daniel
    Posted March 19, 2014 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

    Liked the trailer and the music in it, too.

    I think the easiest thing that could be improved on for the show would be the music… to me it’s just not epic enough, most of the time it sounds repetitive and doesn’t convey the gravity of the situation

  265. Margaret
    Posted March 20, 2014 at 12:16 am | Permalink

    MM,

    It’s fine fit people to hate a female charter. But, unfortunately, some people can’t seem to hate the characters without insulting women in general. And those people should be called out. An example would be Skyler on Breaking Bad. If you don’t like the character, fine. But if you hate her because “women should STFU and stick by their man no matter what” than fuck you!

  266. Sister Wrister
    Posted March 20, 2014 at 1:05 am | Permalink

    Yago,

    Leo,

    I think it’s clear that Lady Stoneheart has a crucial role to play in the future of at least two main show characters, and for that reason I think we’ll see her. Many people seem to worry about viewers losing interest after this or next season… What better way to keep the audience involved than to pull that outta nowhere.

    As for Coldhands, we don’t know if he’s got a larger role to play yet. As it stands now it seems he’s come out of nowhere to help a couple major characters while in trouble, and help them get to somewhere safe… But does his story go further? Is he Benjen? I’m not sold on this, I guess it depends on what “he’s been dead for a long time” means, yada yada… If it is, we’ll see him, at some point, because he’s been introduced in the show and should have some resolve. And next seeason they may be looking for Bran filler, so maybe that’s a good time to introduce him somehow. It’s all about beginning to tie up some loose ends, which I think will help the pace of the show and keep the interest in it. Hitting the root note at some point has to happen to deliver the resolve necessary for entertainment satisfaction.

    On topic: I think this trailer should be called, “last kiss”

  267. UnbowedUnbentUnhodor
    Posted March 20, 2014 at 4:49 am | Permalink

    Daniel:
    Liked the trailer and the music in it, too.

    I think the easiest thing that could be improved on for the show would be the music… to me it’s just not epic enough, most of the time it sounds repetitive and doesn’t convey the gravity of the situation

    are you serious? the music is epic. you obviously haven’t listened to the soundtracks

  268. Abyss
    Posted March 20, 2014 at 5:54 am | Permalink

    Greenjones,

    Doesn’t look like it… – Don’t worry, I saved all the links, I can post it again if need be.
    To the Mods: Could someone please unlock the post? It should be above this one.

  269. Annara Snow
    Posted March 20, 2014 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    A few things I want to comment on…

    1) Flipping out over a recap of something you haven’t seen doesn’t make much sense to me. I’ve seen so many bad recaps of TV episodes, films, books and comic book issues by people (even some pro critics) who completely missed the point, left out very important things or misinterpreted/misrepresented things. I’m not saying this is one such recap; I haven’t even read it (I just scrolled down to the Sansa paragraph to see what the fuss is all about), because I don’t ever read recaps of things I intend to see. But I’m reminded of a forum where I’m a regular and the way people used to flip out over advanced reviews of some comic book issues, because certain things stated in them made fans believe the writers were destroying the characters. When the issues came out, it turned that the reviewers were really clueless and had completely misunderstood things.

    2) In this particular case, I have no trouble believing that Dontos does not mention the escape in the scene in the premiere, but I just think that it means that they are trying to leave the revelation about the escape for another meeting in episode 2. And if we see Sansa’s character “destroyed” in episode 2… well, we will have GRRM to blame. (I know that they moved around his scenes before and that he didn’t write a lot of the scenes from The Bear and the Maiden Fair and that he even disliked them, but it seems that he is writing all of the wedding scenes now.) Nah, I don’t think he will do that. Furthermore, I’m convinced that they will not remove Sansa’s agency and make Dontos and LF snatch her without her knowing it beforehand, among other things because it simply makes no sense. It’s not like Dontos would hope to find her easily in that chaos. And in the Foreshadowing, we’ve seen Sansa secretly going somewhere and looking over her shoulder; if that’s not her going to a secret meeting with someone, with the intention of escaping, I don’t know what if it is.

    3) On another note, I find it amusing that some posters here are so obsessed with Westeros.org and make it their regular habit to rant against the website and insult the people who post there (some of whom also post here), especially since they also admit that they’re regularly reading the forum. I don’t know what’s going on there. It seems like a serious inferiority complex some people seem to have regarding that website. According to one of the posters above, Westeros.org is this terrible place where they censor everything, and according to another, it’s a place where nobody tells anyone to shut up. Um, okay? Seems kinda contradictory. Whatever. Chill out and try to be less obsessed, guys. When I don’t like a place, I simply don’t go there.

  270. Rygar
    Posted March 20, 2014 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    UnbowedUnbentUnhodor,

    Maybe that’s it. The music in the context of the show doesn’t do much for me either. Maybe out of context it would be better. But I cant really think of any instances apart from the first episode when the WW were attacking Wil & Co. where the music really made the scene.

    Its been good, but for me more background filler.


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