Game of Thrones Season 4 premieres in London
By Lightbringer on in Events, Interview.

Game of Thrones had its Season 4 Premiere celebration in London last night. London’s Guildhall was decked in an icy projection as the stars came out to promote the upcoming season. The red carpet hosted Sophie Turner, Rose Leslie, John Bradley, Iain Glen, Liam Cunningham, Daniel Portman, Tony Way, Gemma Whelan, Jacob Anderson, and Indira Varma.

The premiere also hosted the announcement of some big news. For the first time, the premiere episode of Game of Thrones will broadcast simultaneously in the US and the UK. HBO will air the first episode of Season 4 as scheduled on Sunday at 9PM EST, while Sky Atlantic will air the episode in the UK on Monday, at 2AM GMT.

Interviews from the event are already pouring in, as the cast reveal what they can about the upcoming season, and talk about the excitement surrounding Game of Thrones as it enters its fourth year.

ITN speaks with Tony Way on the return of Dontos, who unknowingly becomes an integral part of sending the story to new places. Jacob Anderson says that Grey Worm will begin to learn how to become a human being, and John Bradley says Sam will experience a roller coaster of emotions, from joy and exuberance to the depths of depression. Liam Cunningham, Iain Glen, Sophie Turner, and Rose Leslie also tease what we can expect from their characters in Season 4.

The Telegraph caught up with John Bradley, who says that the premiere episode skips the catch-up from past seasons and hits the ground running. Gemma Whelan reveals that her horse riding skills could still use some work, and Indira Varma says that the best characters aren’t black and white, they are the ones you hate but can’t help but love.

HeyUGuys has shared their full interviews with all of the cast that attended the premiere.

Jacob Anderson talks about Grey Worm’s transformation into a real human being after the shock of receiving his freedom last season, working with Emilia Clarke, his favorite line from the premiere episode, and the relationship between Grey Worm and Daario Naharis.

Indira Varma introduces her character Ellaria Sand, and tries to sum up the Royal Wedding in one word. She discusses working with a fellow Thrones newbie, Pedro Pascal, and mentions that Peter Dinklage is a brutal Scrabble opponent.

For their interviews with Tony Way, Daniel Portman, Liam Cunningham, Gemma Whelan, John Bradley, Sophie Turner, and Iain Glenn visit the HeyUGuys YouTube page.

Absolute Radio has also shared their full interviews with the cast.

John Bradley says that in Season 4 Sam has the biggest opportunity to prove himself that he has ever had, and reiterates that we won’t have to wait until episode 9 to get into the action. He also discusses the global reach of Game of Thrones, and President Obama being such a big fan of the show.

Iain Glen recounts a memorable meeting with a fan, discusses being a part of the Thrones phenomenon, and why he thinks the show has found such great success.

For their interviews with Tony Way, Sophie Turner, Rose Leslie, Liam Cunningham, Jacob Anderson, Indira Varma, Gemma Whelan, and Daniel Portman visit the Absolute Radio YouTube page.

The Daily Mail spoke with Liam Cunningham, who is just as excited to see Season 4 as the rest of us. Liam talks about the status of Team Stannis, who will begin to get their act together this season. Sophie Turner teases that the fans may not enjoy the shock filled Season 4, as ‘all men must die’, and discusses the worry that the cast feels over the fate of their characters.

Gemma Whelan, Daniel Portman, and Tony Way also speak to the Daily Mail about their excitement over Season 4, and what we can expect from their characters.

For more videos featuring Iain Glen, Indira Varma, Jacob Anderson, John Bradley, and Rose Leslie visit the Daily Mail’s premiere report.

Flicks And The City has also begun to upload their interviews with the cast.

John Bradley says the biggest development for Sam this season is to realize how brave he already is, and his relationship with Gilly has helped him immensely.

For their interview with Rose Leslie, Tony Way, and more sure to come, keep an eye on the Flicks And The City YouTube page.

MTV UK spoke to the cast about their recent Vanity Fair feature, President Obama being a fan of the show, an action packed Season 4, and more. Click on the screen cap below to watch.

It’s an exciting time for Thrones, with back to back premieres of Season 4’s opening episode, today visiting Dublin, Ireland. Stay tuned for more coverage as the 6th of April quickly approaches.


221 Comments

  1. Eddward
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Hodor!

  2. acatlover
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    Jacob Anderson says that Grey Worm will begin to learn how to become a human being

    Oh for fuck’s sake. I was dreading exactly this, and now we’ve got to deal with bullshit character development that is completely ridiculous in the context of the books and Grey Worm’s past. Why couldn’t they just leave his character alone? Making him “more human” will completely ruin the idea of Unsullied and how they’re raised… and more importantly, it’s such cliche character development. “Oh, let’s make this character a really hot guy, tough, and awkwardly learning to become ‘human’ so all the female fans will swoon for him” — as if that hasn’t been done thousands of times before. D&D have turned characters into cliches before, like with Podrick or Shae, but if this is Grey Worm’s upcoming arc, I believe he will be the worst cliche yet. I really hate what they done to him. They’re neutering the Unsullied… again.

  3. Sean
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Wooooooooo! I love video interviews.

  4. Sean C.
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    acatlover,

    Isn’t the entire point of Dany freeing the Unsullied that they don’t have to be emotionless Killbots?

  5. Ser Low-Res
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    GRRM released a new chapter from TWOW, called ‘Mercy.’

    http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/

  6. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    acatlover,

    Why? You must have missed the story of the Unsullied who visited a brothel in Meereen just to be held. They are human and are no longer slaves. They fight for Dany because she views them as freed men, not cyborg slave soldiers.

  7. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    acatlover,

    I just hope they don’t get him speaking the Common Tongue, because Jacob really nailed his Valyrian monologue in 305 (and all his subsequent lines). I can understand why David J. Petersen praised him to seven high heavens, he was one of the best speakers of his made-up language out of half a dozen other actors, all of whom also did a great job of course.

  8. Tyrionisthebest
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    acatlover,

    Cue typical kneejerk reaction, got to love and hate this fandom sometimes .

  9. acatlover
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    acatlover,

    Why? You must have missed the story of the Unsullied who visited a brothel in Meereen just to be held. They are human and are no longer slaves. They fight for Dany because she views them as freed men, not cyborg slave soldiers.

    I’m not saying they should be portrayed as emotionless robots. I’m saying they shouldn’t be portrayed as the cliche “hot, tough, socially awkward guy who is slowly learning what it means to be human.” It sounds like the plot of a horrible chick flick.

  10. Alex
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    Wow. Sophie looks amazing. She is going to be a big star.

  11. Anvil
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    Ser Low-Res:
    GRRM released a new chapter from TWOW, called ‘Mercy.’

    http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/

    My god, it’s full of wieners.

  12. Ser Maester
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    “Indira Varma says that the best characters aren’t black and white” I was really worried and confused for a second before I read “and white”

  13. Easteros bunny
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    acatlover,

    Nice knee jerk reaction there.

    How do you know he is going to be portrayed as a “hot tough guy all the girls will swoon over?”

    You’re basing your assumption on what exactly?

    Grey worm isn’t a major character. You should be lucky he gets any kind if development then just sitting in the background twiddling his thumbs.

  14. [email protected]
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    acatlover,

    Unfortunate wording then. :P

    I think what people are reacting to is that nothing has been implied to suggest “hot, tough, socially awkward guy who is slowly learning what it means to be human”, so your qualm kind of came out of nowhere. All the actor said was “more human”.

  15. Easteros bunny
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    Ser Low-Res,

    I thought George said no more new pov characters..

  16. Tyrionisthebest
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    Ser Low-Res,

    WTF did i just read ? I guess South Park wasnt so wrong after all .

  17. Valaquen
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    acatlover,

    Why? You must have missed the story of the Unsullied who visited a brothel in Meereen just to be held. They are human and are no longer slaves. They fight for Dany because she views them as freed men, not cyborg slave soldiers.

    Exactly. Kneejerking, footstomping and handwringing as usual from some folk.

  18. Walter Harrow
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    Ser Low-Res,

    Arya (and her story) is getting darker and darker. I kind of like it :)

  19. Satin
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    Easteros bunny,

    that’s not a new POV character. It says who it is in the end.

    Tyrionisthebest,

    yeah, the one thing I think when watching the show: man, I miss all those casual rape references. Also, he forgot that she’s eleven again, didn’t he? This reads like she’s roughly fifteen. I know the one she offs is Raff the Sweetling, but did anyone recognize the guard with the “chicken”?

  20. acatlover
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    <a href="mailto:herrsebbe2@gmail.com">herrsebbe2@gmail.com</a>:
    acatlover,

    Unfortunate wording then. :P

    I think what people are reacting to is that nothing has been implied to suggest“hot, tough, socially awkward guy who is slowly learning what it means to be human”, so your qualm kind of came out of nowhere. All the actor said was “more human”.

    Hot — I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but Jacob Anderson has by far the widest female fan base of any minor character because of his physical attractiveness. As a bisexual man, I can appreciate it, but it seemed like a cop-out from the very first episode. He looks like a model. D&D must have picked up on this, which is likely why they’re expanding his character for the benefit of female fans.

    Tough — Also already established in the last season, particularly with the worst fight scene they’ve done, the nonsensical 3-man defeat of Yunkai that is never even fully explained.

    Socially awkward — And here’s where the new “becoming more human” comment comes in.

    Anyway, I was making a prediction that Grey Worm’s character will get much more cliche during this season. It’s a prediction. I might be wrong. But I’ve been afraid of this since the first episode with him when a skinny, short, non-warrior model stepped from behind the Unsullied, and Jacob’s comment seems to suggest that it’s exactly the direction they’re going with the character.

  21. Walter Harrow
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian Plastic,

    What are you talking about? Mercy is revealed to be Arya at the end

  22. Taena
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    OMFG!! Simultaneous broadcast!!!! I am SOOO SYKED!!! :D

  23. Greg
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Grey Worm’s character is the reason I am actively attempting to get people to stop watching the show. I am paying all of my family and friends and casual aquaintances to cancel their HBO subscriptions. I happen to be rich and don’t know what to do with all my money.

  24. GG
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    FINALLY SOMEONE IN THE STATES CATCHES ON!!!! More simultaneous premieres please :D

  25. Tyrionisthebest
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    Greg,

    Wut ?

  26. Satin
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    Greg,

    and here I thought he was just a minor (if very, very good-looking) side character in a storyline that doesn’t interest me all that much. But you have convinced me to completely re-examine my views. Do you think he could be the Prince Who was Promised? He’s from Essos, I bet he’s actually a Blackfyre, or Syrio Forel in disguise.

  27. Martell
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    Ouch that Indira interview… can’t expect them all to have read the books but I’ve never seen an interview where someone knew so little about what they were working on. I also feel bad for her because she was so blatantly uncomfortable and nervous lol

  28. King Stannis
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    acatlover,

    Yawn…. You bored me with your rant. It is obvious as Mr.Worm being one of the leaders he will need to learn to understand and become much more human rather then just a killing machine. He will need to “think”. You should try it sometime

  29. Trilambdas
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    acatlover,

    You might also want to consider that these are like press junkets and actors will always try to oversell their characters (ie themselves). See any prior interview with any actor big and small, and you’ll see they relay basically what’s in their scripts’ bio about them and the angle from the director(s) on how they should approach… Grey Worm will have so little screen time that I will say it’s safe to say you need to chillaxticate duder. If Grey Worm’s screen time is/was your biggest concern, you haven’t been watching the past 3 seasons and realize that D&D et al know exactly what they’re doing and have done great things. In D&D we trust.

  30. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Martell,

    I wish interviewers would stop asking the actors if they have read the books. I haven’t watched the interview, but I can only assume she was asked about the books. The scripts are their bible. If they want more info on their characters there are numerous resources beyond reading the books.

  31. NomadicDirewolf
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    good news about the simultaneous broadcast thing, dont do have sky atlantic till next year and even if i did probably wouldnt be able to watch it at 2 in the morning but the principle is a good one lol

  32. cane-cutter
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    Satin:
    Easteros bunny,

    that’s not a new POV character. It says who it is in the end.

    Tyrionisthebest,

    yeah, the one thing I think when watching the show: man, I miss all those casual rape references. Also, he forgot that she’s eleven again, didn’t he? This reads like she’s roughly fifteen. I know the one she offs is Raff the Sweetling, but did anyone recognize the guard with the “chicken”?

    He’s not a guard… He is ser Harys Swift. Former Hand and Master of Coin at that point of the story

  33. Tyrionisthebest
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Agreed, if i was one of the actors i would just tell them to fuck off, in a more civil way but you get the point

  34. Tyrionisthebest
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    BTW its nice to see from the sample chapter that we finally have some plot progression, i know right that seems such a crazy word considering the last two books .

  35. Valaquen
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

    Reading GRRM’s new chapter, it looks like Arya has a chance to get back to Westeros within that novel, since the delegation is there and she has killed Raff in the guise of a Bravoosi mummer (not a ‘glamour’ she should keep up after that, and she’s probably pissed off her Faceless masters). I hope she goes back for needle and stows her way back to King’s Landing.

  36. Martell
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    Valaquen,

    I was thinking the same thing – plus couldn’t she technically take on Raff’s face now and go back to Westeros with them? It looks like that won’t happen but just an idea.

  37. Martell
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Actually, she didn’t ask. She asked Indira to tell her about Ellaria and Indira said that she couldn’t tell her much because she hasn’t read the books. But yeah, I agree with you. This particular interview bothered me only because she seemed like she didn’t even know or care anything about the character she was playing

  38. argilac's antler
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    Easteros bunny:
    Ser Low-Res,

    I thought George said no more new pov characters..

    Did you even read it? It’s not a new character. You should know exactly who it is by the third sentence.

  39. Shan
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    Arya chapter/potential TWOW spoilers (theories):
    The Arya chapter really got me hoping that Arya will return to Westeros and take on her old face/personality but assassin version soon. I love how awesome she is now, but it’s just not the same when she feels like a completely different character. Plus, I love Maisie.
    This is also the reason I’d like Mel to somehow reincarnate Jon’s old body rather than him finding a new one/using Ghost for an extended period of time.

    Anyway…. “you’ve got to carry me.” “Think so?” YES

  40. Satin
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    cane-cutter,

    Ahhh. Thanks!

  41. House Mormont
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    Satin,

    THAT CHAPTER WAS AMAZING, GEORGE IS FINALLY MAKING US FILL IN THE GAPS AGAIN INSTEAD OF SHOWING US EVERYTHING

  42. KG
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    It does look rather like he’s back to his old “punch you in the face with the seamy side of the brass knuckles” self. Now if he could only do it more quickly …

  43. ATG
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    “broadcast simultaneously in the US and the UK”?! Sweeeeeeeeeeeet ^^

  44. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    Shan,

    So Poliver gets the Raff treatment in the show. I wonder how long ago D&D read this chapter? Before season 2? Also, I wonder how they will handle Arya changing her face in future seasons. Surely they wouldn’t have Maisie just do voice work? Will they just use prosthetics to change her appearance, or will they use another actor/actors?

  45. A Secret Baratheon
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    acatlover: Oh for fuck’s sake. I was dreading exactly this, and now we’ve got to deal with bullshit character development that is completely ridiculous in the context of the books and Grey Worm’s past. Why couldn’t they just leave his character alone? Making him “more human” will completely ruin the idea of Unsullied and how they’re raised… and more importantly, it’s such cliche character development. “Oh, let’s make this character a really hot guy, tough, and awkwardly learning to become ‘human’ so all the female fans will swoon for him” — as if that hasn’t been done thousands of times before. D&D have turned characters into cliches before, like with Podrick or Shae, but if this is Grey Worm’s upcoming arc, I believe he will be the worst cliche yet. I really hate what they done to him. They’re neutering the Unsullied… again.

    Scathing satire!

    Unless you’re serious…

  46. House Mormont
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    Shan,

    that bit would send tv audiences crazy!

    also if we read between the lines, Cersei has send Ser Harys Swift to get MORE money from the bank of braavos

  47. TheMannis
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    Wow just read the sample chapter…Amazing stuff…I have a feeling TWoW will be aSoS worthy.

  48. Satin
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    I’m glad this excites you, friend.

  49. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    The Arya chapter must be the one reportedly removed from ADWD in the Summer of 2010, along with Bran, Sansa, Aeron and Arianne chapters IIRC. I can see why they held Mercy back for TWOW, because it’s clearly a whole other beast to the previous Arya chapters. “In the fog all men are killers.” :O Fantastic!

  50. Shan
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    I was actually wondering if this was Cersei or Margaery. Would be fitting of Cersei, of course, but isn’t she kind of in no position to be sending anyone anywhere? I figured Margaery would have taken her spot by now but maybe this hints at a possible change in Cersei’s circumstances?

  51. tysnow
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

    The London Guildhall, kudos to whoever decided on that venue, it’s the perfect place and setting for a premiere. I’m guessing Ser Cunningham sat near Nelson, Lord Dance next to Wellington and (?) next to Churchill, my pick is whoever sat next to his memorial is going to sit the Iron Throne. The Queen should host next years gala at Windsor Castle, or better yet the Tower of London, don’t have to worry about props there, especially Ravens.

  52. Shan
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    You’re right – totally didn’t make that connection. How great would it be if Arya said that last dialogue in the chapter in the season premiere coming up? And they definitely read it before 4 but maybe GRRM gave them some kind of hint before 2. I’m not all too sure why they wanted to switch it up, anyway.

    And this was my concern… I think it wouldn’t go over all that well with viewers if we suddenly had Arya’s character played by random people… I imagine it would get confusing. They may do something like they did with polyjuice potion in the Harry Potter movies (not sure if you’re familiar) but I’d like to see them do something that allows Maisie to play her character.

  53. House Mormont
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    Shan,

    Only cersei could be that bold and dumb, and she’s in the red keep while Marge is still in her cell. Also Ser Harys is Cersei’s man

  54. Sean C.
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

    Re: New Chapter

    The chronology of this chapter is a bit interesting. This is clearly Arya’s missing ADWD chapter, but it occurs after the epilogue, and appears to contain spoilers for chapters that weren’t in ADWD at all.

    Arya is clearly playing Sansa in the play. She has no reaction to playing her sister getting raped and murdered, which is another sign of how detached she’s become, though she still has her list.

  55. House Mormont
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.: Arya is clearly playing Sansa in the play. She has no reaction to playing her sister getting raped and murdered, which is another sign of how detached she’s become, though she still has her list.

    shit i didn’t realise that, wow

  56. Ser Pounce
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    Ser Low-Res,

    I swear did I just read the words FlOPPY WIENER LOL!!!

  57. Dolorous Ned
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    I loved, loved, loved the new chapter!
    Amazing stuff. Maybe the best I’ve read in years.

    Another name off the list! The play! Braavos!
    Phario Forel? Way to troll all Syrio-is-alive-theorists, GRRM!

    And the character development is breathtaking. There’s really nothing left of Arya anymore, just the wolf dreams and her kill list. Sadface.

  58. Mariya Martell
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:

    She was also asked who she would put on the throne at this stage and she said she couldn’t answer it, because she hasn’t watched all three seasons yet.

  59. Mariya Martell
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    acatlover: Hot — I’m not sure if you’ve noticed, but Jacob Anderson has by far the widest female fan base of any minor character because of his physical attractiveness.

    Really? He kinda looks like a rat.

  60. facelessarya
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    That interview with Sophie for Absolute Radio was hilarious!

    “for Sansa, every silver lining has a cloud. every cloud has a cloud, but every silver lining has a cloud.”

    for Sansa there is no silver lining. everything is just clouds all the time.

  61. House Mormont
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    also, i loved that Mercy knicked Yoren’s favourite artery

    cant wait to see Maisie playing Arya playing Mercy playing Sansa

  62. Anonymous
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    The new chapter continues with Martin’s new habit of finding a phrase and repeating it ad nauseam. This time the phrase is Mercy.

    In case you didn’t get it, the theme of the chapter is Mercy.

  63. facelessarya
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

    That TWOW chapter was brilliant! So happy to have my baby girl back! Some people might disagree with the darker aspect of Arya’s storyline but I think it’s an accurate depiction for her at this point.

  64. Shan
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    I thought of this too. I wonder if it’s because even old Arya wouldn’t realize that this was Sansa because she didn’t know that this happened to her or because she just isn’t Arya anymore

  65. Fatio Corcyn
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    Martell:
    Valaquen,

    I was thinking the same thing – plus couldn’t she technically take on Raff’s face now and go back to Westeros with them? It looks like that won’t happen but just an idea.

    And how is she supposed to pretend having the body of a 30 years old man, genius?

  66. Valaquen
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    Anonymous:
    The new chapter continues with Martin’s new habit of finding a phrase and repeating it ad nauseam.This time the phrase is Mercy.

    “Rape” is mentioned so often it’s comical, then offputting and distracting. But a promising chapter overall. I definitely want to read more, so job well done.

  67. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    Speaking of which, I’ve just caught up with the new Beautiful Deaths. ‘Bit disappointed Ser Rodrik wasn’t one of them, but they’re still really good.

  68. TheMannis
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    Seriously, this chapter was AMAZING! Straight to the point and moved the plot along.

  69. Mercy
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:00 pm | Permalink
  70. Anonymous
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    Valaquen,

    I was thinking of “where do the whores go” and “words are wind”.

  71. Patty
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Trilambdas,

    “chillaxticate duder” wow..this cracked me up lol

  72. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    At first the chapter was a bit boring and I was disappointed that Izembaro was a literal mummer. Holy Shitmouth did it end awesomely though! This is nice because it confirms that Arya isn’t ever going to actually become “No One.” As I’ve been saying all along.

  73. Patty
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    Thanks for sharing all these wonderful interviews and the GB premiere. The tone felt very different than the New York premiere. I love watching them cause I just can’t get enough of this show/books!!!

  74. House Mormont
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Shan,

    Arya’s smart, and she can remember Raff all the way back from Harrenhal, im sure shed realise if she was still Arya. The play includes ‘the fat king’, and she was in KL then. All that matters to her is death, like St
    o

    h

  75. Ser Tahu
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    Ser Low-Res,

    GRRM you evil, brilliant bastard :P

  76. House Mormont
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    *stoneheart, sorry broken keyboard

  77. House Mormont
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    Valaquen:“Rape” is mentioned so often it’s comical, then offputting and distracting. But a promising chapter overall. I definitely want to read more, so job well done.

    i think its supposed to be offputting

  78. KG
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    I told him half a hundred times that he was not wrong.

    (arrgh and arrrgh)

    Anonymous:
    Valaquen,

    I was thinking of “where do the whores go” and “words are wind”.

  79. Satin
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    He’d get the same effect without repeating the word ad nauseam. But maybe it’s not the final draft.

  80. Valyrian Eyes
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    cane-cutter: He’s not a guard… He is ser Harys Swift. Former Hand and Master of Coin at that point of the story

    It doesn’t read like she’s fifteen, she tells the dwarf she’ll grow breasts in “one or two years”, so eleven it is ;)

  81. KG
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    I loved the Richard III vibe to the play. I would not be shocked if it was a nod to Mr. Dinklage’s turn at the part.

  82. KG
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    Satin,

    Over at fark.com the running joke is that his initials stand for George Rape Rape Martin. Perhaps he’s just taking a swing at them ;)

  83. Satin
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian Eyes,

    not going to fight about this, it’s very subjective. What do you guys think, is this Varys’ former mummers’ troupe? Seems unlikely, but who knows, stranger things have happened.

    KG,

    maybe… it’s not like he’s usually the worst at this stuff, I’d say he’s somewhere in the middle. Still, it’s a bit irritating, like, yes, it’s GRITTY, we get it!!

    Or maybe he is actually paid by word? It would explain so much.

  84. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    Dat chapter. Badass.

  85. Valyrian Eyes
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

    Satin:
    Valyrian Eyes,

    not going to fight about this, it’s very subjective. What do you guys think, is this Varys’ former mummers’ troupe? Seems unlikely, but who knows, stranger things have happened.

    KG,

    maybe… it’s not like he’s usually the worst at this stuff, I’d say he’s somewhere in the middle. Still, it’s a bit irritating, like, yes, it’s GRITTY, we get it!!

    Or maybe he is actually paid by word? It would explain so much.

    Still in the topic of age, what shocked me WAS THAT SHE KISSED RAFF THE SWEETLING.

    Back to the mummers:
    I actually wondered if Varys would show up when they first mentioned a westerosi envoy, but hadn’t thought about this possibility…it could be a bit of a stretch, but like you said stranger things have happened

  86. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    I think she’s playing Shae.

  87. Eljuma
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    acatlover: Oh for fuck’s sake. I was dreading exactly this, and now we’ve got to deal with bullshit character development that is completely ridiculous in the context of the books and Grey Worm’s past. Why couldn’t they just leave his character alone? Making him “more human” will completely ruin the idea of Unsullied and how they’re raised… and more importantly, it’s such cliche character development. “Oh, let’s make this character a really hot guy, tough, and awkwardly learning to become ‘human’ so all the female fans will swoon for him” — as if that hasn’t been done thousands of times before. D&D have turned characters into cliches before, like with Podrick or Shae, but if this is Grey Worm’s upcoming arc, I believe he will be the worst cliche yet. I really hate what they done to him. They’re neutering the Unsullied… again.

    The story is so short of flat cardoboard dark-skinned Oriental characters! How dare they give this one a personality?

  88. House Mormont
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

    also, a tree watching Nymeria, Bran :(

  89. Dolorous Ned
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

    Has anyone watched Dollhouse by Joss Whedon? Arya really starts to remind me of Echo. All the “taking another identity” stuff.

  90. Satin
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian Eyes,

    makes you all kinds of queasy, doesn’t it? *shudders*

    That was actually part of what made me think that she’s acting too old, because she seemed very knowing. But maybe it’s the part. She might take on more than a person’s face.

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    I thought she was meant to be Sansa at first, and then that she was meant to be Shae. I mean, isn’t Sansa widely suspected to have helped him murder Joffrey, only to turn into a wolf and escape on her broomstick or something like that?

  91. Fatio Corcyn
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer:
    Sean C.,

    I think she’s playing Shae.

    Hasn’t her murder been covered by ******?

    EDIT: someone teach me how to make spoiler thingies on mobile!!!

  92. Hoyti Von Totiy
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    Ser Low-Res:
    GRRM released a new chapter from TWOW, called ‘Mercy.’

    http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/

    Ohhh my god THAT was HORRIBLE.

    Whole chapter just to kill some long forgotten sidekick of Clegane?

    You dont need an entire chapter for that you can do it in like fife sentences …

    Filler galore.

  93. Fatio Corcyn
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    Return of the troll.

  94. Hounded
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

    Wow really interesting chapter. Quite unlike anything I’ve read in asoiaf so far which is cool and promising that Martin isn’t running out of fresh ideas. Kind of reminded me of Shakespeare with the play within the story thing and the play being relevant to other parts of the story. And I never thought I’d be so excited to read of Harys Swyft! Glad he made it across the narrow sea in one piece. Raff got what was coming to him which was cool.

  95. Ser Pounce
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    Hoyti Von Totiy,

    I really thought we were going somewhere in this chapter. Instead we get to meet someone who doesn’t have to do anything with the main story or the FM. The Winds of Filler for Springs.

  96. Satin
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    Hoyti Von Totiy,

    It’s not just about that, actually. Character-wise it’s about showing how far gone Arya really is by now. And plot-wise, it’s about killing one of Cersei’s envoys, so a faceless man can take his place and go back to King’s Landing in his stead. Like in the epilogue to AFFC, where NewFace Jaqen killed Pate to become “Pate.” Those Faceless Dudes, they’re planning something. And apparently, they are everywhere.

  97. Hounded
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    It was Kevan that suggested Harys go to Braavos to treat with the bankers. Its in Kevan’s POV epilogue chapter.

  98. Valyrian eyes
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    Hoyti Von Totiy: Ohhh my god THAT was HORRIBLE.

    Whole chapter just to kill some long forgotten sidekick of Clegane?

    You dont need an entire chapter for that you can do it in like fife sentences …

    Filler galore.

    Really…if everything in these books were described “in a few sentences” as I hear people saying ALL. THE. TIME. I don’t know what kind of books we would be reading. GRRM does drag things out sometimes, it’s true, but NOT EVERYTHING can be done in a few sentences, sometimes the dragging out is called either character development or world-building -.-

  99. House Mormont
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    Alive, on hit list
    Ser Ilyn (currently in Hayford en route to Riverrun)
    Ser Meryn (currently in KL)
    Queen Cersei (KL)
    Dunsen (Maidenpool, then the Wall)
    Raff the Sweetling (Maidenpool, then the wall)

    only four left

  100. KG
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    What?

    Ser Pounce:
    Hoyti Von Totiy,

    I really thought we were going somewhere in this chapter. Instead we get to meet someone who doesn’t have to do anything with the main story or the FM. The Winds of Filler for Springs.

  101. Shan
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    Fatio Corcyn,

    You just write «b» at the beginning of your spoiler and «/b» at the end, except use <'s instead of «'s. I couldn't use the proper ones when demonstrating as it would have just blacked out my writing instead of appearing as the code I wanted you to see.

  102. Don't care
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    I friggen hate D&D. They continue to ruin the books by giving minor characters development. How hard is it to understand. Shae= whore. Nothing else. Grey Worm. Mindless robot, not human. FFS.

  103. Martell
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    Fatio Corcyn,

    Well, genius, as we see from the chapter (had you actually read it) a faceless man takes on more than just a face. The dwarf comments that Arya’s got no tits, and she has a thought to the effect of ‘they were right, Mercy did have no tits’ and sort of feels herself up at some point. Meaning Arya took on the body of Mercy, as well as her face.

    No need for the rudeness.

  104. Jeff O'Connor
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    Don’t care,

    Thank god they did something interesting with Shae instead.

  105. Shan
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    I’m confused by the talk of Arya being 11. Isn’t she somewhere between 13 and 15 at this point? Plus show characters are also much older so Maisie will probably look about 18.

    Sure, the stuff is still inappropriate for a 15 year old in this day and age, but it’s nothing we haven’t seen before in asoiaf.

  106. slaver's scream
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    jesus christ what an amazing chapter

    if they follow up with Arya playing the role of Sansa or Shae or whatever, and killing up “the envoy” and abandoning the faceless men, it’s pretty much an episode 9 materiel

    I wonder how they do this in the TV show though, Raff wasn’t introduced there so they’ll probably have to use someone else… Ser Meryn Trant maybe?

  107. Shan
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    Ser Pounce,

    You know this is an Arya chapter, right? We’re not meeting anyone new and Arya has very much to do with the main story.

  108. Aryuh
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

    Satin:
    Hoyti Von Totiy,

    it’s about killing one of Cersei’s envoys, so a faceless man can take his place and go back to King’s Landing in his stead. Like in the epilogue to AFFC, where NewFace Jaqen killed Pate to become “Pate.” Those Faceless Dudes, they’re planning something. And apparently, they are everywhere.

    By faceless man you mean Arya? Or a random faceless man? Is Arya able to take on Raff’s identity? If so this is definitely the scene before she leaves for Westeros, but if you didn’t mean Arya, why would a random faceless man want to go back to KL? And what do you mean the faceless men are planning something and are everywhere? It’s just Arya in this chapter and Arya who’s planning something.

  109. Valyrian eyes
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    Shan:
    I’m confused by the talk of Arya being 11. Isn’t she somewhere between 13 and 15 at this point? Plus show characters are also much older so Maisie will probably look about 18.

    Sure, the stuff is still inappropriate for a 15 year old in this day and age, but it’s nothing we haven’t seen before in asoiaf.

    No, eleven, nearing twelve at most. Bran is 9, sansa almost 14, jon 16/17.

  110. FictionIsntReal
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    It might be a cliche, but not all cliches are bad. Character arcs are interesting. And I’m a straight male who would have the same opinion even if the character was played by [insert unattractive actor here].

  111. Ser Pounce
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    Shan,

    I was actually agreeing with another person who says the chapter was garbage. We agree that Raff is a filler and has no relevance to the main plot. Yes I know its an Arya chapter and I still agree the chapter was Garbage.

  112. Sean C.
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer:
    Sean C.,

    I think she’s playing Shae.

    I considered that, but at the end of the day her playing Sansa (and being indifferent to it) has 1000 times more literary value than playing Shae, some prostitute she’s never met. Not that it really matters, of course.

  113. Fatio Corcyn
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

    Shan:
    Fatio Corcyn,

    You just write «b» at the beginning of your spoiler and «/b» at the end, except use <‘s instead of «’s. I couldn’t use the proper ones when demonstrating as it would have just blacked out my writing instead of appearing as the code I wanted you to see.

    Thanks!

    @Martell: not convincing enough. At all. If an 11 years old skinny girl can suddenly take on the body, attitude, and voice of a 30 yo bloke, if we go again in the bullshit glamour Mance/Rattlesnake territory, please…

  114. DEATHDREAMS
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 9:14 pm | Permalink
  115. Fatio Corcyn
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer:
    Sean C.,

    I think she’s playing Shae.

    Cersei covered up Shae’s murder so that no one would know Tywin was in bed with a whore, so no one actually knows about it.

  116. GeekFurious
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    acatlover: Oh for fuck’s sake. I was dreading exactly this, and now we’ve got to deal with bullshit character development that is completely ridiculous in the context of the books and Grey Worm’s past. Why couldn’t they just leave his character alone? Making him “more human” will completely ruin the idea of Unsullied and how they’re raised… and more importantly, it’s such cliche character development. “Oh, let’s make this character a really hot guy, tough, and awkwardly learning to become ‘human’ so all the female fans will swoon for him” — as if that hasn’t been done thousands of times before. D&D have turned characters into cliches before, like with Podrick or Shae, but if this is Grey Worm’s upcoming arc, I believe he will be the worst cliche yet. I really hate what they done to him. They’re neutering the Unsullied… again.

    OMG WORST SHOW EVER WORST SHOW RUNNERS EVER WORST EVER EVERRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111one

  117. King stannis
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    Love the books and show but George R R needs to stop with the floppy stuff and just get on with the story.

  118. Mariya Martell
    Posted March 26, 2014 at 11:11 pm | Permalink

    Please put your comments of the preview chapters under spoiler tags!

  119. Huck
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 12:03 am | Permalink

    KG,
    His blog posts says it’s a (revised, but) very old chapter, one that he initially drafeted a long time ago. So I am not sure whether we can infer he is back to old form or whether this was written when he actually was in old form…

  120. Sister Wrister
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 12:10 am | Permalink

    Ok, that kicked ass!!! I would very much like a transcript of “the bloody hand”…

  121. SHK12344
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 12:14 am | Permalink

    King stannis:
    Love the books and show but George R R needs to stop with the floppy stuff and just get on with the story.

    Yeah, I agree. I didn’t much care for the new chapter. Just same old stuff from previous POVs.

  122. MRR
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 12:19 am | Permalink

    Tyrionisthebest:
    BTW its nice to see from the sample chapter that we finally have some plot progression, i know right that seems such a crazy word considering the last two books .

    It’s an amazing chapter, but I didn’t really think it was much in the way of “progression”.

    It’s Arya showing that she’s learning more from the Faceless Men, but that she’s still Arya deep down inside. It’s not especially different from her killing Dareon back in AFFC. We learn that Harys Swyft has arrived in Braavos as per Kevan Lannister’s suggestion, but in terms of “plot progression” that’s about it. It seems like this chapter is setting the stage for what’s to come more than anything else.

  123. KG
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 12:44 am | Permalink

    Why would you reveal a major plot point in a preview? Of COURSE it’s a set-up chapter.

    MRR: It’s an amazing chapter, but I didn’t really think it was much in the way of “progression”.

    It’s Arya showing that she’s learning more from the Faceless Men, but that she’s still Arya deep down inside. It’s not especially different from her killing Dareon back in AFFC. We learn that Harys Swyft has arrived in Braavos as per Kevan Lannister’s suggestion, but in terms of “plot progression” that’s about it. It seems like this chapter is setting the stage for what’s to come more than anything else.

  124. Tori Targaryen
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 12:48 am | Permalink

    KG,

    Exactly… Who was seriously expecting something major? I thought it was generous as it was, just be happy he’s even releasing chapters early lol

  125. Sister Wrister
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:06 am | Permalink

    KG,

    Why would you reveal a major plot point in a preview? Of COURSE it’s a set-up chapter

    This.

  126. RhymesWithWeak
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:07 am | Permalink

    I think Arya is a big wild card who is going to really F— with a lot of plot lines….

    …loving that…little bit messed up for an eleven year old (or whatever she is)…

  127. ace
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:15 am | Permalink

    A bit OT, but I kind of enjoy reading this S3 recap, S4 review, unsullied S4 predictions from Jordan Yerman

    http://www.vancouverobserver.com/news/game-thrones-season-4-preview-s03-recap-s04-predictions

  128. Sister Wrister
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:24 am | Permalink

    As for moving the plot along, I think this chapter establishes some cool things. (And I was very worried for a moment that Arya was turning tricks, I’ll be honest. That would have been terrible.) The queen is still the queen, and her minions still sort of fear her/strive to keep in good standing with her. This murder will mean that KL’s future negotiations with the Iron Bank will be even more… tenuous. Arya’s “problem of personal identity” is still evolving (and in some ways parellels Theon’s). It’s good to know she’s still there inside though. And aren’t we all glad that Nymeria is still out there fucking shit up? It seems Bran sure is.

    There are a number of things to stoke out on. The problem with expecting something BIG out of a sample chapter is that the really BIG things don’t happen very often. Most of his chapters build…. why would he drop a huge bomb, like… “Oh shit, Arya’s in KL!” Ain’t gonna work like that.

  129. MRR
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:26 am | Permalink

    KG:
    Why would you reveal a major plot point in a preview? Of COURSE it’s a set-up chapter.

    I’m not complaining—I’m responding in disagreement to someone who thought the chapter showed significant “plot progression”.

    Context is important.

  130. KG
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:36 am | Permalink

    Yeah, you just happened to get the quote as a connection to the entire conversation :) Sorry if it seemed like I was targeting you.

    MRR: I’m not complaining—I’m responding in disagreement to someone who thought the chapter showed significant “plot progression”.

    Context is important.

  131. Scott Glennon
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 2:58 am | Permalink

    Love these interviews. The ladies all look amazing, The fellas all look sharp, and it was probably an awesome night! I’m a little jealous I wasn’t there.
    Re: New POV Chapter.
    Elio and Linda set up a thread for discussion, and it’s already over 25 pages! Here’s the link: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/106204-twow-spoilers-new-chapter-discussion-mercy/ Many of the points raised here are over there as well, which makes me smile! :-) Long Live Arya!

    The North Remembers!

  132. pntrlqst
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 3:43 am | Permalink

    Sam depressed, eh?

    I wonder if Gilly will die since she was dropped off at Mole’s Town according to someone who has seen the episodes. Aren’t the wildings going to make an attack there?

  133. King DBC
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 4:30 am | Permalink

    slaver’s scream,
    Could be Ep 9 material, but I think it’s better explosive premier material. Like a ‘Boom! We’re back bitches!’ episode.

  134. Whispering Walda
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 4:33 am | Permalink

    KG,
    Yep, thought so too. Also, when/if they televise this, how much will the actors enjoy playing the play of the play within the play?

    Sean C.,
    Great catch – actually two great catches.

    Difficult to see it as Shae because a)How would the playwright know about Shae? and if he did, how did he know she was Tyrion’s not Tywin’s? Also, if the playwright meant to please Cersei, better leave her out.
    b) For Shae, ‘only a maid’ would be almost a bigger stretch than anything else in the play (bet she’s a highborn, though)

    Also – do you think ‘Forel’ is a common Braavos psydonym?

    On topic: I like the new Tommen. Did not notice how mobile his features are – he can look sweet and earnest, (as he did as Martyn) but he can also look like a mean little spiv if required.

  135. Satin
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 4:40 am | Permalink

    Shan:
    I’m confused by the talk of Arya being 11. Isn’t she somewhere between 13 and 15 at this point? Plus show characters are also much older so Maisie will probably look about 18.

    Sure, the stuff is still inappropriate for a 15 year old in this day and age, but it’s nothing we haven’t seen before in asoiaf.

    I was the one who mentioned it, and I wasn’t concerned that it was inappropriate. GRRM doesn’t always manage to write kids convincingly, and I thought this was one of these times. *shrugs*

  136. Sir Dosser
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 5:40 am | Permalink

    Ok so lets see what we got:

    Descrpition of a play about the event detaily described in the previous books.
    Flooping weiner and some pedo-bear action (oneeee weiner next to another ….) Mercy is not there on an official assignment by the FM, because seeing Raff is a suprise to her. She kills Raff

    I think GRRM took it too far with this FM thing. They have too much power with this unlimited face changing, so much power infact it seems to make DRAGONS look pale in comparison.
    Not only that but these FM seem to train little girls in that skill with no rules or boundaries to the usage of it.

    So is Arya free to kill whomever she wants with this god-like skill she was given for no whatsoever reason and bare no consequences for her actions?
    In the previous books the point was made that hiring a FM is EXTREMLY expensive, but reading about it now it seems like they kill on a whim like Arya killed the NW singer.

    GRRM is loosing it storywise and in regards to continuinity of previous stated facts.
    He should just stick to the main plot and leave 11 year old uncontrollable ninjas for some other books more focused on japanese manga fiction and not on a medeval fantasy world.

    And this chapter like the previous ones is a leftover from DWD, meaning this isnt anything “new”.

    Did this man write a single new word after turning in DWD?

  137. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 6:23 am | Permalink

    King DBC,

    I agree. Ideally, the first scene of season 6 is a satirical play depicting the events of previous books, then we see that one of the actors is Mercy. We are told about the Westerosi envoy, and Mercy ends up seducing him and killing him (but sadly we won’t be getting the “you’ll have to carry me” part since Polliver is dying in season 4 instead of the Tickler), changing back her face to Arya. Then roll the intro and begin setting up the Battle of Meereen. Season 6 will be awesome.

  138. Dolorous Ned
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    Sir Dosser,

    Arya killing Raff wasn’t sanctioned by the FM, and I expect she will be punished for it. Super-powers don’t come cheap in ASOIAF

  139. Sir Dosser
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    Dolorous Ned,

    Will she? They did nothing for her killing the singer.

    Are they monitoring her at all?

    Just seems unproffesional of FM, of taking her on in the first place let alone now when shes out of control

  140. Tatters
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    Sir Dosser,

    Every time I read something from you, I wonder why you bothered reading beyond the first book. You cannot be pleased.

  141. cosca
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    Dolorous Ned,

    Hopefully this means she’ll finally leave Braavos., and actually do something that will move the plot along. We’re getting to the end point here, things really need to start moving.

    Tatters,

    He presumably read past the first book because it moved at a steady pace, and had a good balance of character development, worldbuilding and plot, as did the next two books. Feast/Dance, and if most of the chapters released so far are anything to go by, Winds, do not.

    As for him never being pleased: If I had to guess, he would be pleased, as many people would, if George would actually show some evidence that he’s written any new material, and if Winds came out in the near future. Not too much to ask of a full time professional author really, but it’s seemingly far beyond GRRM’s abilities. This is all speculation of course.

  142. Tatters
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    Satin,

    One can argue that Arya is skipping the pre-teen phase or having got really deep into this shit. I was into Taekwondo when younger, it was violent and I quit because of how harsh it was.
    I think you underestimate Arya, she is turning 12 soon.

  143. Sir Dosser
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 7:56 am | Permalink

    Tatters,

    FM are able to charge their services at a huge price because they posess someting exceptional or so it should be.
    If they teach these things to pscyho-children who kill whomever they want and are free to leave at any point(Kindly man never told Arya about any rules or obligations….) with these skills it kinda destroyes the whole point of FM beeing an elite ultra expensive merc guild.


    Arya could hit people for a carrot backin Westeros when she leaves so why hire a FM and pay a costly price?

  144. Shmofo
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    A great chapter! Building tensions with rapeing Arya innuendo, then finally sexualizing Arya by making her seduce the guard, what a fine character development for a child. I like it. I bet though, that Mr. Martin liked it even more when he wrote it. It’s Fantasy, folks, and the man is writing his own fantasy, with all the magic and nipples in it.

    Talking of nipples, here is one incredible sentence from genius himself:

    He gave her nipple a tweak through the fabric of her dress, just the way the dwarf had done when she was fixing his cock for him.

    Can’t wait for TWOW, specifically for Sansa chapters, I bet there will be some nice developments too. Hurry, Mr. Martin, hurry, if you need some nipples to tweak for inspiration, tweak mine. Just hurry, besides winter, Shmofo will be coming too.

  145. Satin
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    Tatters:
    Satin,

    One can argue that Arya is skipping the pre-teen phase or having got really deep into this shit. I was into Taekwondo when younger, it was violent and I quit because of how harsh it was.
    I think you underestimate Arya, she is turning 12 soon.

    I think everyone kind of misunderstood what I meant, so let’s just let it lie. It’s not important, either way.

  146. Alex Greyjoy
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    Shmofo,

    I’m trying to recall a worse, more pointless and more disgusting chapter in all five books of ASOIAF, without success.

    Seriously, Arya is like 11 or 12. Tone it down, GRRM, by a lot.

  147. Fourth Of His Name
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    Went to the Boston screening last night. It was pretty damn awesome. We’re in for a great season.

  148. tysnow
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    This chapter of Arya’ should have been in Feast, this one actually moved her character forward instead of being stuck for two books in uninteresting chapters after her initial couple of chapters introducing Braavos. Why has it taken GRRM so long to finally find is voice concerning Arya’s arc, it took him most of Dance to finally bring us full circle back to the Dany from the end of swords.

  149. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    Alex Greyjoy,

    She’s more like 12 or 13 and Dany got raped by Drogo at 13 in the books. This is nothing new.

  150. OldeCrone
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    I’m confused – the date at the head of the “Arya” (or Arya masquerading as Mercy) chapter says January 27, 2013. Does that mean it was posted in January 2013 – which is over a year ago of course; or was it written during January 2013 and has only just been posted.

    I think the inhabitants of Westeros should convert it into a republic (though class systems seem to persist in republics as well as in monarchies, unfortunately).

  151. Polish
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    I’m starting to like the speculation that this chapter isn’t what it seems — that its made to look like Arya went rogue and killed someone on her hit list against the FM’s will / agenda …. but in reality, her mission was to kill a guardsman from the King’s Landing envoy. And the fact that one of the guards was Raff (someone on her hit list) was just a happy coincidence for her… “the gods have given me a gift”. Just one theory right now.

  152. Tatters
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    Sir Dosser,

    But what exactly in this chapter was misuse of facelessness? It seems like one of the murders back in the riverlands. I dont think this is actually horrible violation. Maybe the faceless are as careless as they say.
    Death means nothing to them, except when they are hired. It seems like the high expenses are because the FC are lazy and not very sympathible to others.
    Death is the religion and death is just a daily process, the real danger is to be exposed.

  153. Jordan
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    Polish,

    I think I agree. Although part of it is probably to learn acting, when the Kindly Man gave Arya the assignment, there was a strong implication that she’d be carrying out another hit under the new identity. What makes it especially likely, is I have some suspicions that Arya’s FM training ultimately leads to Varys/Illyrio, and this is exactly the kind of hit they would pay for- it will cause chaos and increase Cersei’s paranoia..

  154. Jack
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    Shan: ee. Although part of it is probably to learn acting, when the Kindly Man gave Arya the assignment, there was a strong implication that she’d be carrying out another hit under the new identity. What makes it especially likely, is I have some suspicions that Arya’s FM training ultimately leads to Varys/Illyrio, and this is exactly the kind of hit they would pay for- it will cause chaos and increase Cersei’s paranoia

      

    Arya is around 11/12 here because Sansa is 13 (masquerading as 14). They are roughly two years apart.

  155. Shmofo
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    Arya didn’t get her first menstruation yet, she’s still a child even for Westerosi standards, but that wouldn’t stop Mr. Martin not to fantasize about ugly cocks too big for little girls or some old fashioned nipple tweaking. I mean, where I come from, there is Romany minority who traditionally wed children, from time to time there’s a scandal in media about it (they defend as it’s their ethnic tradition, but they still wait for the first menstruation).

    About Arya’s pre-puberty stage, it’s expained in the same chapter (the bolded part is mine):


    “Might be, but this one is a child.”

    “I am not,” lied Mercy. “I’m a maiden now.”

  156. Turncloak
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    Raff pressing Arya against a wall and kissing her is definitely the most creepiest thing I’ve read now in the series. More creepier than Littlefinger kissing Sansa. So much wiener in this chapter. Maybe the Southpark creators are clairvoyants

  157. UnbowdUnbentedUnhodor
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    Is grrm a pedo? That chapters fucked. Shes like 11/12. That shouldnt be legal surely

  158. Martell
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    Fatio Corcyn,

    Rattlesnake LMAO. Yeah I mean im not a fan of all the “lets just have anyone be able to do anything in this fantasy world” thing either but I don’t much see the point of this chapter if that doesn’t happen. The revenge was definitely cool but Raff is beyond irrelevant and forgotten at this point

  159. Ashara D
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    OldeCrone,

    Probably a “last revised” date. More fodder for my hopes that TWoW will be coming early next year.

    I liked the chapter. Arya is her own person. FM are powerful not omniscient. If she’s careful, she can get away with killing for herself. This time, though, there is a witness and word could get back to the FM. That doesn’t appear to have happened with the singer.
    Hope my manual spoiler tagging worked. Can’t wait til next week when we can all speak openly about S4E1.
    Also, just want to say that Ian Glenn is one cool dude.

  160. Dolorous Ned
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    UnbowdUnbentedUnhodor,

    So when GRRM writes about Ramsay torturing and hunting people that means he’s into that shit? Seriously, you can argue that the role sexual violence plays in the books is too high, and I woulnd’t object, but what you say is ridiculous.
    Yes, the scene between Raff and Arya is creepy and disturbing, but it’s meant to be.

  161. Satin
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    UnbowdUnbentedUnhodor:
    Is grrm a pedo? That chapters fucked. Shes like 11/12. That shouldnt be legal surely

    Keeping in mind, that a couple of commenters in this thread are trolling, and I don’t know if you are… I think the point here is that dear old Raff is the creep who doesn’t care about age, and that the actor who plays “Tyrion” in the play just happens to be on the creepy and grabby side as well. Great environment for “apprenticing” someone.

    On the one hand, I like the idea that Varys is involved in this, on the other, please only as a paying client? If he’s secretly the head of the Faceless Men as well, it’s finally crossing the line where he becomes ridiculously. However, it’s possible he hired them to cause chaos among the Lannister allies.

  162. Ours is the Fury
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    Everyone needs to cover their spoilers!

  163. Rat Bastard
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    Satin,

    I strongly doubt that Varys is the head of the Faceless Men, seeing as how a lot of their methods appear to be quite overtly supernatural or magical in nature

  164. Satin
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    Rat Bastard,

    Here’s hoping.

  165. you are dumb
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    It seams that some of you might not be ready for these books, with all those pesky words you have to read. Some of them you even have to read more than once. Maybe you guys just aren’t ready for them yet. I’d like to recommend a book for you that you might like more. In it, they get right to the point, the plot moves along very quickly, and their isn’t so many words that you have to read over and over. My 2 year old son loves it. It’s called Good Night Gorilla. Enjoy!

    I think it’s funny that there are a few here that love to trash the books and say how garbage, (especially the last 2 books) are, and they are the same ones that absolutely cannot take it when someone gives the tiniest little criticism of the show.

  166. Strider
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    The moral high ground and judgement seems to be an amazingly shifting tool to be used at will, if one would complain about the sexualization of a 12 yr old and possible rapey scenario, yet would not utter a peep about the fact that the same child is becoming a stone cold killer and acknowledge that the rapey scenario/ playing the whore really is an undercover plot vehicle to get her target, an extremely used cliche for a hitperson in crime novels. I call trolling of the highest order.

    But yes, both the killing and the means which she used: pretend whoring are showing what Arya is really becoming, what war and losing her compass (which was her family) in dramatic circumstances has brought her to. And it is creepy. To think the Starks were the most upstanding ones when all of this began. This has to be the most difficult transformation I’ve read. Ned would turn in his grave, no doubt, if this was not all fiction.

  167. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    Anvil,

    Remember GRRM is purposely playing up those aspects of society that make it such an unfair world and the way in which the powerful exercise power over others. And in a patriarchal society, male sexuality symbolized by the wiener is a projection and tool of power. Notice also that Arya is able to use their “wieners” against them like many women do in that kind of society. Note too how Arya moves from standing up to obvious sexual aggression from the dwarf to using it to her advantage against the guards. She is growing up very rapidly and gaining incredible confidence. She will be a force to reckon with if she lives to become an adult. I do wonder if and how D&D will tone this down for TV. Although TvArya is older, she is still pretty young for her to experience (at least in American viewers’ eyes) what goes on in this chapter.

  168. OldeCrone
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    Ashara D:
    OldeCrone,

    Probably a “last revised” date. More fodder for my hopes that TWoW will be coming early next year.

    Oh, thanks for the explanation.

  169. Abyss
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 12:40 pm | Permalink
  170. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    Satin,

    Also, he forgot that she’s eleven again, didn’t he?

    No, he’s the last person who would forget that. The chapter says she doesn’t even have breasts yet. GRRM modeled these cultures after Medieval culture and child brides and rape victims were not unheard of, nor was (and is) pedophilia unheard of. His world is dark and it’s dark on purpose. This is a dark aspect of that and this world that he refuses to let us turn away from. By making it gritty and dark, he is defying the tropes of the fantasy genre. I remember when reading LOTR that Sauron and his hosts were not all that scary to me because there was so little of the evil really described in detail (not that I needed to read that stuff at 14). Gollum was the worst thing in LOTR (as far as evil described in detail IMHO) and he’s nothing compared to some of GRRM’s characters.

  171. Ye Olde Wolfe
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    Shan,

    OMG “You’ve got to carry me…” that throwback didn’t click with me until you brought it out, and I freaking love it! I’m really excited to see where Arya’s story takes her.

  172. Satin
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ,

    it would be so easy if everyone read all the responses first, to see if people had moved on in their opinions. Which might happen. Also, for the last time, this was not about the situation being inappropriate for an eleven-year-old.
    And this is the last thing I’m saying on this subject, anybody else who quotes my post only to suspect all kinds of bizarre things that I didn’t even imply will get Vogon poetry quoted at them.

  173. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Arya isn’t ever going to actually become “No One.” As I’ve been saying all along

    I agree! I think the “faceless” are going to be unhappy with her once they realize that she still has her list of people she’d like to kill and is acting on that urge for revenge. They were getting on her case before about retaining any part of her old self including her list. Plus she kept Needle…it was a sign that she would never make the full transition to being “faceless”.

  174. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    Aryuh,
    The faceless men are hired as assassins. I think Satin meant that maybe they wanted Raff dead so they could take his place, sneak back in as him to KL and get close enough to Cersei to kill her. I don’t necessarily agree. I think killing Raff was not on the faceless’ agenda and only Arya’s personal agenda. But we will have to wait and see!

  175. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    Ser Pounce,

    So Arya’s character development is not important to you? GRRM has been clearly moving her to learn to become an assassin and so far she has only killed those she was told to by the faceless. This time she took initiative and killed someone from her list. I think it’s important because it will cause a split between Arya and the Faceless and it will provide impetus for her to return to Westeros.

  176. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    Sir Dosser,

    So is Arya free to kill whomever she wants

    That’s a huge assumption on your part. Remember it’s only one chapter. I’m predicting that when she gets back to the House of Black and White that they are pissed at her for killing someone that was not on their list. They don’t want her to be Arya with a personal mission and I think there will be consequences.

  177. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    Shmofo,

    Whereas GRRM writes about this stuff to force the audience to deal with just how ugly the human condition can be, you write stuff on here obviously to be as disgusting as possible either for the sake of shock value or as satire because you’re offended by GRRM’s writing. If it’s shock value, you’re a complete loser. If it’s satire because you don’t like GRRM, then don’t read his damn books.

    So tired of the assholes and trolls on this site.

  178. Rygar
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Annara Snow is gonna have a field day with this chapter.

    Arya, as Mercy, plays Sansa in a play where she is raped by Tyrion, then asks to be raped by Raff so that she can kill him.

    Its not funny but I’m giggling.

  179. Tyrionisthebest
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    I wonder how can Martin look Maisie in the eyes after writing this chapter

  180. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    Satin,
    Sorry, it’s a little hard to “catch up” and read 177 comments. I tried reading them from most recent to oldest but that makes it very hard to follow the flow of a conversation. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the way the comments are just listed one right after another and not indented like a threaded discussion makes it impossible to really follow conversations and reply with the most recent information. No insult or harm was meant.

  181. Tyrionisthebest
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    you are dumb,

    With a username like that how can you expect anyone to take you seriously, in fact i bet this is your second account and you are use it because you got owned in the past for being a book purist . And whether you want to admit it or not yes the last two books were weak . And btw stop with this type of condescending posts it doesnt make you smarter in fact it makes you desperate .

  182. FM
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    Easily one of George’s best written chapters yet, concise and to the point (for asoiaf at least). And there’s a whole lot is packed in there and the play bit works on multiple levels. Very well done. As for it being disturbing, it very well should be. Arya’s quickly losing her humanity, and this about seals the deal–there’s nothing she won’t do for the kill. As she says, if she can’t have love she will inspire through fear.

  183. Rygar
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    Tyrionisthebest:
    I wonder how can Martin look Maisie in the eyes after writing this chapter, he is a sick man .

    You just realized this now?

  184. KG
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    Other than that whole “Hope you like being blind until you remember how to behave” thing, huh?

    Sir Dosser:
    Dolorous Ned,

    Will she? They did nothing for her killingthe singer.

    Are they monitoring her at all?

    Just seems unproffesional of FM, of taking her on in the first place let alone now when shes out of control

  185. KG
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    Polish,

    As I recall, Arya was sent “for training” to what turned out to be a theater troupe (Acting would be very important to an assassin, after all!)

    This “Oh sweet I can cross a name off my list! Raff the Sweetling, you are TOAST!” was definitely NOT on the syllabus for the semester. And remember she’s already been told at least once that FM don’t run around killing people willy-nilly; I’m pretty sure this extra-credit assignment will get her an “E” and a trip to the office.

  186. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    This latest chapter has a lot of people’s knickers in a twist.

    Okay, what show/books did you think you were watching/reading? Seriously people, the very first episode they show an unjust beheading, an act of incest and the attempted murder of a child. Later episodes show multiple acts of senseless and sadistic torture, rape (attempted, threatened, etc), murder, etc, etc. He established in his books and the show did so as well that this was an ugly, ugly world. So here we are waiting for book 6 and right before Season 4 and NOW you want to bitch about the ugliness as going to far?! Really?

    And lets not forget this kind of stuff happens in the real world every single damn day. But don’t get in a tizzy about what is happening in the real world. Don’t try to stop that. Just complain about a fantasy show/book and try to make it stop there. Your only legitimate point about it “going too far” is if you think GRRM and D&D are doing what they are doing solely for the purpose of titillation for which there is more than ample proof that they are not. GRRM and D&D have repeatedly addressed this issue and you either believe their intentions are sincere or not. Since you will NEVER affect how GRRM and D&D actually write the stories, you have a choice–read or don’t read, watch or don’t watch. The posts about how he’s gone too far are just sound and fury signifying nothing.

  187. Rygar
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:
    Shmofo,

    Whereas GRRM writes about this stuff to force the audience to deal with just how ugly the human condition can be

    Also a form of “Shock Value”. No need to sugar coat it. It is what it is.

  188. Knurk
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    This preview chapter was astonishingly bad. I am betting my leftpinky this will never be televised as many people here seem to assume (episode 9 material, really?).

  189. Rygar
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ,

    I don’t think its just that. I hear complaints that its just a really poorly written chapter.

  190. you are dumb
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    Tyrionisthebest,

    See? Cannot take criticism. Who is desparate?

  191. Shmofo
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:
    Shmofo,

    Whereas GRRM writes about this stuff to force the audience to deal with just how ugly the human condition can be, you write stuff on here obviously to be as disgusting as possible either for the sake of shock value or as satire because you’re offended by GRRM’s writing.If it’s shock value, you’re a complete loser.If it’s satire because you don’t like GRRM, then don’t read his damn books.

    So tired of the assholes and trolls on this site.

    Calm down, dear friend, you are among good people.

    I would never call people defending Martin’s nipple tweaking fascination by mentioning artistic value in it as losers, assholes and/or trolls. That’s me, Shmofo, I never insult fellow posters, that’s how I am. Call me kind, call me nice, call me Shmofo, that’s me. That’s how I am.

    About your advice that I shouldn’t read the books. See, you and me are not so different, we have a common ground, I probably won’t read his future books, but you won’t either. There’s more similarity among us than differences. Can’t we all be friends?

  192. KG
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    Another observation – possibly minor, possibly somewhat important.

    Arya doesn’t think to herself “The Many-Faced God has sent me a gift.” No sir-ee. “the gods” is what she thinks. She’s so very much not Faceless it isn’t even funny; she’s gonna dump them quicker than she did the Hound. It may not be the wisest move she could make, but I think she’s going to turn all North very suddenly and head home.

    Either that, or she’ll get an assignment to kill this nobody bastard girl who has the gall to be betrothed to the heir to the Eyrie. And THEN she’ll kick the FM to the curb. We’ll see.

  193. Daniellica
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    Sir Dosser: So is Arya free to kill whomever she wants with this god-like skill she was given for no whatsoever reason and bare no consequences for her actions?
    In the previous books the point was made that hiring a FM is EXTREMLY expensive, but reading about it now it seems like they kill on a whim like Arya killed the NW singer.

    Arya is never told (up to this point) that she is joining the Faceless Men, though no doubt that is her hope and why she is working so hard. When I read this chapter, I figured she was with the mummers like she was sent to be Cat of the Canals (and isn’t she sent to join the mummers when she returns from being Cat?)–for training, not in any official capacity, per se. So I don’t see Arya here officially being a Faceless (wo)Man, nor even using any glamours, but taking on the persona of someone else (like Cat) to better learn how to change the whole of oneself to match the face she may one day learn to change as well.

    And I agree with others that she may indeed face reprimand (or worse) for her handling of Raff, but do not understand why people are complaining about Raff. This chapter was not about Raff, but about Arya, the dedication of her revenge and the lengths she will go to achieve it. How is that not vital to her character?

    As to the sexualization, again we impose our modern societal morals on an invented, quasi-historical world. It also plays into Arya’s development of shifting who/what she is to serve her purposes and achieve her goals, as Cat of the Canals, as Mercy with the mummers, and then the ruse to lure Raff, who no doubt would try to get into her knickers even if she revealed her actual age. Some men, after all, merely see a series of profitable holes. :)

  194. KG
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    Tyrionisthebest,

    I was thinking the same.

  195. Satin
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ,

    thanks. The structure of the comments doesn’t lend itself to following continuous conversations, true. In addition, you had the misfortune of being the last of several people who mistook my meaning, so my sarcasm landed mostly at your feet. My apologies for that.

    Rygar,

    I really hope he means to revise this one, it does need some polishing. The content is admittedly pretty nasty, which I agree is on purpose. I think it’ll still have a sobering/sickening effect if he dials it back a bit – often less really is more.

  196. KG
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    Ed and I have been yelling for years now that we need a proper forum setup.

    This sort of thing is good for comments on a single post, but for discussions it sucks.

  197. KG
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    Satin,

    “Less is More” are definitely not the Martin words.

  198. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

    KG,

    Much and More

    Rygar,

    Did you not like it? I liked it a lot. If only she was a bit older, it would have made more sense… Luckily that won’t be a problem in the show.

  199. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    KG,

    “When it’s Done” would be his official house words :(.

  200. Rygar
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    I didnt mind it. It felt like good ol’ Georgie boy to me. I did think the “late for my rape” was ridiculous and the purple floppy cock syndrome particularly annoying. GRRM has a way of making things creepy. Its always been like that for me so I’m not shocked by the chapter

  201. Cumsprite
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ,

    Not everyone’s knickers are in a twist. Some people, like myself, greeted the problematic stuff in the sample chapter with a yawn. I’ve been inured to the brutality in the ASOIAF universe. Yes, it’s gross and shocking and disturbing and … whatever. Bored now.

  202. House Mormont
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    Satin,

    doubt hed publish it if this wasn’t a finished draft, Theon I, Arianne I, Barristan I, Tyrion II and this must be final versions

    ‘The first draft was, at any rate. I’ve rewritten it a dozen times since then.’

  203. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    Yeah, I understand. But aside from that it was great. And “good old Georgie” is always better than AFFC/ADWD Georgie. No ham countings, no watching paint dry, no reading about Brienne randomly walking about asking people that damned question. All good signs.

  204. Sister Wrister
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    And look at all these reasonable voices. Have the trolls descended back to wherever trolls go?

  205. Ours is the Fury
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    Reminder to keep the conversation civil in here. Review the moderation policy if you’re unclear on what’s acceptable. Thanks!

  206. Sister Wrister
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    My apologies, that was extreme. Too early for drinks I suppose. You can delete the above post of mine as it appears I may be typing over the legal limits.

    Sorry to be offensive and/or bum anybody out.

  207. Sister Wrister
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    Thank you, there is no reason for that to be there. Cheers

  208. Daniellica
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

    Sister Wrister: And look at all these reasonable voices. Have the trolls descended back to wherever trolls go?

    Didn’t someone promise me 90 days of peace?
    Imagine no trolls on the internet for 90 days…

  209. Scott Glennon
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

    Anyway,
    THE PREMIERE LOOKED PRETTY COOL!

    The North Remembers…

  210. Ashara D
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    Scott Glennon,

    Can’t wait for folks’ reactions to that scene near the end in light of this new chapter release. Seems GRRM wanted the credit for that little gem. ;) Cheers!

  211. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

    Shmofo,

    I apologize for the name calling…I just get really angry with people online (not just here but elsewhere) who spend enormous amounts of energy and time complaining about things in lit or entertainment but seem to care less about the things that go in the real world. It’s so easy to posture online and so hard to complain or do anything about reality apparently.

    As for reading I will read his future works. I have no problem with his portrayal of these kinds of ugly things. I used to work in law enforcement and there is nothing under the sun that could occur (non-magical) that I have not seen first hand in life. GRRM is just being real. I get the impression that you think that he is doing it for some less than noble purpose–personal and/or reader titillation. That’s what porn does. That’s not what GRRM’s novels do and it’s not his purpose. There have been books that have shocked societies to their very core when they were published that we accept as great works of art now. The Jungle by Upton Sinclair was considered shocking because it was absolutely disgusting (people still find it shocking). But he was only portraying reality and he wanted to shock people. Oliver Twist by Dickens was shocking too because it revealed what poverty was really like. Both writers meant to shock but the purpose was to educate and elucidate. I think GRRM is the same. I just don’t think titillation is part of it.

  212. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    Okay, I will concede shock value but to what purpose? To titillate or to open people’s eyes? To destroy fantasy genre tropes? Everything that occurs in his books happened in Medieval society and is happening now (to different degrees in different parts of the world, of course). Slavery? Sexual predation of children? Child killers? Incest? Yep, yep, yep and yep. If he just wanted to titillate he could have written erotica–he could have done so many other things. But his books are much, much more–they are true literature. Don’t you agree?

  213. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    Sorry about my cuss laden rant….Mea culpa. Won’t do it again.

  214. Sister Wrister
    Posted March 27, 2014 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ,

    I don’t remember any cussing. Except for mine own vulgarity. I like the way you think, and the Jungle changed my life.

    Daniellica,

    M’lady. The 90 days of peace was not a promise I made, nor one I could have kept. My promises are all bound in blood, sealed within the wax of a dream.

    Another round! This one’s on the trolls

  215. Whispering Walda
    Posted March 28, 2014 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,
    Ow! Sorry.
    UnbowdUnbentedUnhodor,

    My theory is that, back in the 80’s when he was trying to survive as a writer and TV didn’t want him cos he wrote too slow (or whatever), GRRM had to win the $10 Penthouse postbag best letter prize just to eat (thus never was a starving artist).

    Hence all the lesbian sex is being done by heterosexual women yearning for rock hard cock, instead of , I dunno… lesbians?

    Hence Pod thoroughly satisfying three working women on his first attempt.

    Hence Cateyln gratuitously parading her wobbly birth-scarred abdomen with the excuse “Maester Luwin has delivered all my children, this is no time for false modesty.” like no mother of five, ever.

    Hence the idea that a bowl of moon tea never hurt nobody, except maybe Robert Arryn. ( In real life even the best morning after pills inconveniently fail one time in five, and before 1963, contraceptives were so harsh most women preferred abstinence) .

    Hence the notion that a bit of fur, or one menstrual cycle, is proof that a child is ready for childbirth.

    From the late middle ages, the average age of marriage in Europe was 25-26 for women 27-29 for men, about two years less than it is now. The critical factor appears to have been individual prosperity – the years that the economy went up, the average age of marriage went down, but not by much. Highborn women married older than lowborn women, and about one in six people never married at all.

    Unlike fornication, marriage always had a sound economic basis. Inheritance was the main mechanism for transferring wealth from one man to another. Brides younger than about seventeen or eighteen (or older than about 35 – although wealthy widows often remarried older) were/are more likely to die in childbirth.
    Being born was the single biggest cause of death full stop(25% at or around birth, 50% before the age of 5), and the biggest cause of death for women of childbearing age (1.5% sounds pretty good until you consider that a woman would typically have 5-7 children, meaning one in ten wives would die leaving three of six children under the age of ten to be brought up by dad) If a man wanted an heir and spare, better arrange a marriage early, but marry later.

    The factors that predispose a culture to early marriage are also economic: where a dowry must be paid, poor men unburden themselves of daughters as soon as they can afford to, in a culture with a bride-price young girls attract a higher sum than women. In both an older, wealthier groom is seen as a better prospective husband than a younger man – to the people who get the money, who are not typically the bride or even the bridegroom. In Westeros, marriage seems more strategic than economic. The only economic marriage I can think of is book-Ramsey to Lady Hornwood.

    Long story short, just about everything GRRM says about female sexuality is intended to get a heterosexual guy horny. He writes as if to a studly heterosexual male, 18-25, but it’s the fantasy of men with skullets and mortgages and porches over the toolshop, whose Forces need to be assembled to raise the Titanic. The older you get, the younger you like to imagine you are, and the more likely your fantastic object of lust is to be younger still (oh, yeah, ick, young people, I know, so ick). Luckily, fantasy does not make anyone anything.

    It is not just sex. There are quite a few hale and hearty men over forty, prime of their lives, not so many women over thirty-five, seen better days (except sinister crones, who have seen worse). Rob, Jon, Bran, Sansa, Margery, Rickon, Dany etc. act with much more wisdom and maturity, much less impulse, temper, odor, than any child their age ever had. And old people take them seriously. (Like Rikard Karstark. As if.)

    But real life and what happens between your ears when you are curled up alone with a novel are two different things, amiright?

  216. Daniellica
    Posted March 28, 2014 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    Whispering Walda: My theory is that, back in the 80′s when he was trying to survive as a writer and TV didn’t want him cos he wrote too slow (or whatever), GRRM had to win the $10 Penthouse postbag best letter prize just to eat (thus never was a starving artist).

    the writing of television and novels are completely different on so many levels. Assuming he quit writing for TV because he took too long to write is long on prejudiced presumption and short of common sense–if you take too long to write for TV, you’re just plain fired. The deadlines are short and the pressure enormous, and most TV shows write in teams.

    Hence Pod thoroughly satisfying three working women on his first attempt.

    …and it was a joke?

    Hence Cateyln gratuitously parading her wobbly birth-scarred abdomen with the excuse “Maester Luwin has delivered all my children, this is no time for false modesty.” like no mother of five, ever.

    Parading? Seriously? She leaps out of bed to read an urgent message, not do a strip tease.

    Hence the idea that a bowl of moon tea never hurt nobody, except maybe Robert Arryn. ( In real life even the best morning after pills inconveniently fail one time in five, and before 1963, contraceptives were so harsh most women preferred abstinence) .

    The only place I have ever read the idea that a bowl of moon tea never hurt nobody is right here, from you.

    Hence the notion that a bit of fur, or one menstrual cycle, is proof that a child is ready for childbirth.

    Biologically speaking, a menstrual cycle is “proof” that a female is ovulating, one of the major things necessary for childbirth. I condition “proof” because we’re in a world with no notion of modern medicine, how infertility works, or the idea that it takes years to mature to make childbirth safer for women (not to mention even more mature women die in childbirth, so the distinction might be further lost on them).

    The factors that predispose a culture to early marriage are also economic: where a dowry must be paid, poor men unburden themselves of daughters as soon as they can afford to, in a culture with a bride-price young girls attract a higher sum than women. In both an older, wealthier groom is seen as a better prospective husband than a younger man – to the people who get the money, who are not typically the bride or even the bridegroom. In Westeros, marriage seems more strategic than economic. The only economic marriage I can think of is book-Ramsey to Lady Hornwood.

    There still exist places in our modern world where girls are married off as young as 8 or 9, though more commonly 12-16 (indeed, for the latter, in Western countries as well). There are still places in our world where superstition dictates that having sex with an infant will cure disease. There are many places in our world where prostitutes are very underage, and even more illicit places where small children are peddled for such purposes.

    As for economic marriages in Westeros, I can think of a couple more off the top of my head: Roose Bolton’s choice of Fat Walda, probably most Frey marriages, even Robert to Cercei (though that was also political, the financial should not be dismissed).

    Long story short, just about everything GRRM says about female sexuality is intended to get a heterosexual guy horny. He writes as if to a studly heterosexual male, 18-25, but it’s the fantasy of men with skullets and mortgages and porches over the toolshop, whose Forces need to be assembled to raise the Titanic. The older you get, the younger you like to imagine you are, and the more likely your fantastic object of lust is to be younger still (oh, yeah, ick, young people, I know, so ick). Luckily, fantasy does not make anyone anything.

    I wholly disagree with you about this. Everything that I’ve read from Martin about female sexuality in this series speaks to the place and value and treatment and context of women within the world Martin has created, and it strikes most of us as believable because we are very familiar with patriarchy.

    So I don’t see the stretch Martin is making. I don’t see how the Mercy chapter was supposed to be erotic. Thinking of Arya, at 11 years-old, passing herself as a prostitute to lure her query into seclusion speaks far more to the malleability of self she is learning than to any intention of pre-pubescent lust.

    If you want puerile fantasy, watch the Tudors, where every woman seems eager to spread her legs for just about anyone. “Hello, I’ve just met you, but please don’t mind if I hike your skirts and screw you against this tree.” “I thought you’d never ask!”

    It is not just sex. There are quite a few hale and hearty men over forty, prime of their lives, not so many women over thirty-five, seen better days (except sinister crones, who have seen worse). Rob, Jon, Bran, Sansa, Margery, Rickon, Dany etc. act with much more wisdom and maturity, much less impulse, temper, odor, than any child their age ever had. And old people take them seriously. (Like Rikard Karstark. As if.)

    Cercei? Queen of Thorns? Catlyn Stark? The Mormont ladies? Jamie’s aunt married to that Frey dude whose name I can’t recall at the moment? No? They don’t count?

    Sansa = wisdom and maturity? She may grow into it as a matter of survival, but remember the first book/season? How have we seen Rickon enough for him to display anything? How’s Theon Greyjoy for impulse control? How’s Joffrey–the KING OF WESTEROS–for being “taken seriously” by the older people he’s surrounded by?

    But real life and what happens between your ears when you are curled up alone with a novel are two different things, amiright?

    I don’t know, are you? The way I see it, fiction is a distillation of essential human truths that, in part, enable us to experience the subjectivity of an other-than-I, which in turn helps us relate better to the world around us and the people in it. We read fiction for the human experience, for the truth in ourselves, for the understanding “real life” is often short on.

    Sorry if that was overly bitchy :)

  217. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted March 28, 2014 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    Daniellica,

    Your reply was very well written and not bitchy, particularly in light of the inflammatory nature of Whispering Walda’s comment.

  218. Daniellica
    Posted March 28, 2014 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ,

    My thanks, Mrs. D!

  219. Whispering Walda
    Posted March 28, 2014 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    Daniellica,

    fiction is a distillation of essential human truths that, in part, enable us to experience the subjectivity of an other-than-I, which in turn helps us relate better to the world around us and the people in it.

    Well, to me the sex in ASoIaF seems a lot less realistic than the sexism.
    Although I didn’t mean to flame, just to point out that this is populist fantasy, not a realistic portrayal of a pre-pubescent girl.

  220. Braincandy
    Posted March 28, 2014 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    Abyss,

    Try Goodnight Goon. You’ll love it.

  221. Daniellica
    Posted March 28, 2014 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    Whispering Walda: Well, to me the sex in ASoIaF seems a lot less realistic than the sexism.
    Although I didn’t mean to flame, just to point out that this is populist fantasy, not a realistic portrayal of a pre-pubescent girl.

    I think the sex and the sexism are related–it is an entirely sexist world, where most women are consigned to the Mother/whore dichotomy. As for the realism of an 11 year-old girl, I’ve met some remarkably wise and mature children in my day, so it is not beyond my suspension of disbelief to see Arya as she is, especially considering the experiences she’s had. But we still see some of her childish thinking in how Martin renders her, repeating what she hears instead of trying to outwit others, the mental shrugs in many of her chapters, especially in the House of Black and White. It is less cunning than it is survival; in the Mercy chapter we see the stirring of her cunning, though it is still somewhat childish.

    Tyrion is a good counterpoint to Arya in this way, someone also fighting for his life by his wits, but he knows how to play the game, whereas Arya is learning its ropes. She has to learn very early, poor thing, but that’s what life does from time to time.

    Everything in her story has been leading in the direction she’s going, from the moment Jon presents her with Needle, and most of her reactions have been completely in line with her immaturity–just think of the three deaths given her by Jaqen. As Gendry points out, she could have named Tywin and Joffrey and ended the war, but instead she chooses targets in her immediate field of vision. Instant gratification.

    Anyway, being in a world surrounded by so much sexuality, it doesn’t surprise me to see her mimic that world to get to Raff, especially watching her mimic so many other aspects of her environment. I don’t see it as a sexualization of Arya, but rather Arya deploying her developing skills to take advantage of the situation.


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