Rory McCann on Season 4: Arya and The Hound will leave a “trail of destruction in their wake”
By Lightbringer on in Interview.

When Rory McCann showed up in Iceland to film the fourth season of Game of Thrones, it brought him back to six years ago, when he was working in the country as a carpenter. Rory tells the Daily Record:

“I pinch myself all the time – we were shooting in Iceland this year and thinking that it was only six years ago I was working as a carpenter in Iceland. Now I’m back and swanning around in a chauffeur-driven car and part of one of the biggest TV shows in the world. I’m a very lucky boy. I had made a Viking film with Gerry Butler and after filming, I just went, ‘I’m staying’ and was there for 11 months. There wasn’t any acting work at the time. I had said to my agent to phone if anything was happening but it wasn’t, so I just stayed.”

His Iceland sabbatical didn’t last too long, as he was cast in Game of Thrones in 2009, which he soon found out was a pretty big deal.

“It’s incredible, a great thing to be part of. When I started, they told me a rough synopsis and I sped read the first book. Once I found out more, I realised there was a history to it and such a huge following. The pilot was shot in Doune Castle so I thought, ‘Here we go, I could be cycling to work’ and it’s a shame that didn’t continue but we film in Belfast and I’ve really enjoyed the trips over there.”

He’s learned that being a part of Game of Thrones does come with a catch though – not a lot of job security. Rory reveals his secret to keeping his character alive.

“When you get the script in for episode nine, you get a large glass of whisky before you open the first page and think, ‘Right, here we go, is it all over and time to get your coat?’ Anyone who is still alive to get to season four has done very well and it’s a wonder there is anyone left alive, given the amount of death and destruction. I’m still just grateful for the part and we’re all happy to be here. My secret is that I make sloe berry gin at home and keep giving it to George Martin, so he keeps me in his tales.”

It seems to be working so far, as we enter Season 4, The Hound continues on his journey.

“We see him and Arya on their mad road trip, leaving a trail of destruction in their wake and arguing all the way so somehow it’s funny as well. We seem to be doing double the swordplay and I’ve still got bruises from the fights. There are some moves that have never been seen before.”

For more of Rory’s interview, visit DailyRecord.Co.Uk.


118 Comments

  1. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    Hodor! Hodor! Six days to go-dor!
    It’s so close that I might explo-dor!

    Seriously though, Rory’s awesome, I hope it’s really not the end for Sandor at the season’s end.

  2. queenofthorns
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    Daenerys

  3. queenofthorns
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian Plastic,

    damnit VP, I wanted to mess with the STANNIS people.

  4. Walter Harrow
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    Arya and The Hound’s road trip is going to be amazing :)

  5. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    queenofthorns,

    Awww, me too, but I’m gonna do it the old-fashioned way. This should cheer us all up though, with me now…

    ♪ Ten White Walkers fighting on The Wall ♫
    ♪ Ten White Walkers fighting on The Wall ♫
    ♪ And if one White Walker should accidentally fall ♫
    ♪ there’ll be nine White Walkers fighting on The Wall ♫

  6. Ser Davos Seaworth
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    Rory McCann has been great as Sandor, sad he’ll be gone. When I was reading I pictured Areo Hotah as McCann (only with grey hair and beard), do you think, and this is a long shot, that they might cast the actor of a deceased character in a different role? normally I’d turn my nose up at such an idea but it actually might be plausible with McCann as Areo. Since we associate Sandor as having the distinctive burn and black hair, he would be hardly recognizable with a normal face with long grey hair and beard. Also Areo is basically a mute and they could go as far as to make him a mute on the show if they wanted. Areo and Sandor are similar characters both being tall, strong guards basically. And finally keeping McCann on as Areo would keep the actor under contract until his return as the hound in the TWOW material…

  7. theonetruebastard
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    anyone have any thoughts on what arya and the hounds story will be after the premiere considering shes reunited with a “friend” and we all know how that plays out, anyone else this they may have to speed things up with AFFC material to cover the whole season that is unless someone doesnt get cut

  8. Nezzer
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    Off-topic:

    I don’t want to sound like a dick, but when is the cast page under “features” going to be updated? I remember it already had season 3 months before the premiere, but apparently it was forgotten in this offseason period. I like that page because it’s good to show it to non-readers so they can tell who’s who and where they are.

  9. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    This talk of Rory reminded me of the Tampa Bay Comic-Con last year where he mentioned his porridge oat adverts. So I went looking for them, not that they were hard to find really.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCGk_k_lQm4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tZ0LWGdTq0

  10. Yago
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    Ser Davos Seaworth,

    IF Dorne’s in, Areo’s not gonna be in the show anyway.

  11. KG
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    I think of all the cast, Mr. McCann would be the most overall fun to hang out with.

  12. Ser Davos Seaworth
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    Yago,

    True, but the camera that rides would be perfectly played by the brother of the mountain that rides

  13. Hoyti Von Totiy
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    queenofthorns:
    Valyrian Plastic,

    damnit VP, I wanted to mess with the STANNIS people.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-paper-scissors

    Stannis = Rock
    Hodor =Paper
    Daenerys or anyone else = Scissors

    :)

  14. RV of D
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    Off topic but. . . apparently the last three episode titles have been confirmed? Is this true?
    The Mountain and The Viper
    The Watchers on the Wall
    The Children

  15. dtones520
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian Plastic,

    If you’ve read the theories, which seem pretty credible, Sandor Clegane is alive and well on the Quiet Isle where Brienne stops on her journey.

  16. slayjoy
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    RV of D,

    I read that too but I think it was a rumor so far and not confirmed. Could be true though, and just leaked but not officially released yet.

  17. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    dtones520,

    Indeed I have, and hopefully they’ll find a way to incorporate them somehow; it was one of the things that made Brienne’s arc more interesting at least (love the character and Gwendoline, but it could’ve been so much less). Rory McCann in a shawl that covers his face is still Rory. I think the theory states he’ll eventually go to King’s Landing to fight “Ser Robert Strong”, but I don’t want to look to much into these things.

  18. RV of D
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    slayjoy,

    Pretty awesome titles if you ask me. . . Especially episode 10. That opens up a lot of potential directions the show is going and things they are keeping! I am really wondering if they are somehow going to keep the Red Viper of Dorne Pedro Pascal alive for another season and have him act as Quentyn or something weird. I doubt it but Pedro Pascal just seems like a pretty big name. I dunno, probably just hoping since he’s my favorite character but also, his death is so epic that I’d be sad if they changed it.

  19. zod
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    RV of D,

    If the RV lives, then Tyrion is judged innocent. Won’t happen.

  20. Hoyti Von Totiy
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    RV of D:
    slayjoy,

    Pretty awesome titles if you ask me. . . Especially episode 10. That opens up a lot of potential directions the show is going and things they are keeping! I am really wondering if they are somehow going to keep the Red Viper of Dorne Pedro Pascal alive for another season and have him act as Quentyn or something weird. I doubt it but Pedro Pascal just seems like a pretty big name. I dunno, probably just hoping since he’s my favorite character but also, his death is so epic that I’d be sad if they changed it.

    good point, all the “good” deaths happen this season (Viper, Tywin, Joffrey), whats left for season 5?

    Slynt, Quentyn and Kevan dont quite rank up ….

  21. Rygritte
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    What’s swooning?

  22. RV of D
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    Hoyti Von Totiy,

    The Slynt Death will be a solid “good” death that will make people cheer. Like Joffrey this season. This is why I hope they include Dorne and don’t shrink it. Building Quentyn as a sympathetic character (no matter how lame everyone likes to make him out to be) only to have him burned alive later. Same with Kevan in a way – build him up as hand only to have him fall hard at the hand of Varys. I don’t understand why people say Season 5 will be a fall off. I think Dance and Feast are full of excellent television.

  23. King of the Ashes
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    RV of D,

    where did you get those titles from?

  24. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    RV of D:
    Hoyti Von Totiy,

    The Slynt Death will be a solid “good” death that will make people cheer. Like Joffrey this season. This is why I hope they include Dorne and don’t shrink it. Building Quentyn as a sympathetic character (no matter how lame everyone likes to make him out to be) only to have him burned alive later. Same with Kevan in a way – build him up as hand only to have him fall hard at the hand of Varys. I don’t understand why people say Season 5 will be a fall off. I think Dance and Feast are full of excellent television.

    Agreed. If it’s condensed in certain spots. But agreed. It’ll be good. As killer as Season 4? Perhaps not. But so much good stuff.

  25. RV of D
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    King of the Ashes,

    The Jon Snow fake twitter account tweeted that episode 9 would be “The Watchers on the Wall” so I searched “game of thrones episode titles” on Twitter and a load of people were tweeting about the newly “confirmed” titles.

  26. zod
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 3:29 pm | Permalink
  27. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 3:30 pm | Permalink
  28. King of the Ashes
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    RV of D,

    oh yeah thanks i see it too now

  29. cosca
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Alan Sepinwall has a new interview with Benioff and Weiss, over at Hitfix:

    http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/game-of-thrones-producers-benioff-weiss-on-approaching-the-halfway-point

    They’re still sticking to their guns on the whole “the universe is contracting” deal they brought up before Season 3.

    Of course, now that we’ve passed what we see as the halfway point, one of the great pleasures of the show for us is seeing some of these disparate plot threads come together, and seeing characters who have never met each other finally occupying the same frame. It feels like this is the season where the “GoT” universe finally stops expanding and starts contracting, and the resulting collisions can be a lot of fun.

  30. Hounded
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    Hoyti Von Totiy,

    Jon’s stabbing will probably be in the season 5 finale which will be pretty shocking even if it isn’t his death.

    And as for Slynt, Quentyn, Kevan – although they aren’t as big characters they do have pretty awesome death scenes.

    Beheaded by Jon, roasted by a dragon and killed by Varys and his little birds. All of those will be pretty memorable.

  31. Hexonx
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    RV of D:
    slayjoy,

    Pretty awesome titles if you ask me. . . Especially episode 10. That opens up a lot of potential directions the show is going and things they are keeping! I am really wondering if they are somehow going to keep the Red Viper of Dorne Pedro Pascal alive for another season and have him act as Quentyn or something weird. I doubt it but Pedro Pascal just seems like a pretty big name. I dunno, probably just hoping since he’s my favorite character but also, his death is so epic that I’d be sad if they changed it.

    Well based on this picture I don’t think he will survive:

    http://winteriscoming.net/2014/03/lena-headey-interviews-pedro-pascal-for-hunger-magazine-2/

  32. Hounded
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    RV of D,

    I’m a staunch defender of Quentyn. He may not be awesome or badass but he’s a character I could really relate to and felt bad for him when he died. He was just a kid trying to not let his father, his family and his country down. He’s really underrated if you ask me and I think the Meereen stuff gets way more excited once he arrives (especially when he attempts to steal a dragon).

  33. Hoyti Von Totiy
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Hoyti Von Totiy,

    Jon

    good point.

  34. Sean C.
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    cosca:
    They’re still sticking to their guns on the whole “the universe is contracting” deal they brought up before Season 3.

    It’s impossible to know how literally to take any individual statement, but I have a hard time seeing how that could possibly be true. Season 3 had the following distinct locations/plotlines:

    1. Jon
    2. Dany
    3. Arya
    4. King’s Landing
    5. Robb and Catelyn
    6. Theon
    7. Jaime and Brienne
    8. Bran
    9. Sam
    10. Dragonstone

    What they say about consolidation will be true at the beginning of Season 4, which will feature the following distinct locations/plotlines:

    1. Night’s Watch
    2. King’s Landing
    3. Dany
    4. Bran
    5. Theon
    6. Arya
    7. Dragonstone

    However, by the midpoint of the season you’ll have:

    1. King’s Landing
    2. Night’s Watch (and based on the previews, this will be diverging for much of the season into Jon and Sam in different locations again, and that’s without Ygritte seemingly being her own POV too now)
    3. Sansa
    4. Brienne
    5. Bran
    6. Theon
    7. Arya
    8. Dragonstone
    9. Dany

    And when you get to season five, even assuming that the writers completely cut all the new character groups (which is an extreme few of us are willing to fully stake out out), you’ve got:

    1. King’s Landing
    2. Night’s Watch
    3. Sam
    4. Sansa
    5. Tyrion
    6. Arya
    7. Theon
    8. Dany
    9. Bran
    10. Jaime (eventually goes off on his own)
    11. Brienne (depending on how things end in season 4?)

  35. Hand of the Kingslayer
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    cosca,

    Not happy about this. Eagerly awaiting season 5 casting news :/
    Hopefully at least one of the new storylines will make it to the series in season 5…

  36. cosca
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    There’s always the possibility that Sam will be staying at the Wall in Season 5, no Oldtown. Though this is pure speculation of course, because it’s impossible to know how important the whole maester’s conspiracy will be. Also, for next Season, the Wildlings raiding party south of the Wall really do count as their own story line, so that brings it up to 10 story lines for Season 4.

  37. Sean C.
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    cosca:
    Sean C.,

    There’s always the possibility that Sam will be staying at the Wall in Season 5, no Oldtown. Though this is pure speculation of course, because it’s impossible to now how important the whole maester’s conspiracy will be.

    I’ve definitely considered that possibility as well, but it’s impossible to determine, so I just operated on the assumption that all existing characters will continue to follow broadly speaking their book stories until we get signals otherwise.

    Making predictions for what gets included in Season 5 are completely unique in the show’s history, since with all previous seasons we had subsequent books to help us in determining what was important and what wasn’t.

  38. Alan
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    GreatJon of Slumber: Agreed. If it’s condensed in certain spots. But agreed. It’ll be good. As killer as Season 4? Perhaps not. But so much good stuff.

    If they are going to reach the end of Dance by the end of next season (which simultaneously seems both a bit rushed by makes a lot of sense from an arc standpoint) you also get, in addition to what you mentioned:

    Theon’s escape, Cersei’s Walk of Shame, The Dragonpit Scene, and you know, Jon’s freaking death. Add in things like Quentyn getting roasted, Kevan’s death, Frey Pie, etc., and you have more than enough nice episode enders.

  39. Hoyti Von Totiy
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    go to 10.24 of this video:

    http://youtu.be/QlJblxV3QHQ?t=10m15s

    GRRM said “The heroine is never going to be raped ….”

    In the books Dany said “yes” to Drogo so he couldnt be talking about her, and no heroine has been raped so far meaning its probably Sansa or Arya that has it coming

  40. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    Hand of the Kingslayer,

    Doesn’t casting new usually spring up after season’s end? Unless my idea they’ll start production much earlier so they’ll be done by December (which is important for all the VFX/editing process) And Dorne’s got the stay in, and the Iron Islands too. There’s no way of ending the trial-by-combat which won’t cause Dorne to rise up, otherwise Tyrion has no reason to escape either. We’ll probably be seeing more bottle episodes which focus only on 3 or 4 arcs per episode, but only feature actors who’d previous get 8 or 9 credits over 6 or 7 and other stars even less so.

    We’ll know the significance of the plots when they announce the actors this summer.

    Robert Pattinson for DragonPooron ;)

  41. Daniellica
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.: What they say about consolidation will be true at the beginning of Season 4, which will feature the following distinct locations/plotlines:

    You forgot Braavos! :P

    Also, considering how many new character POVs are introduced in the past two books, they must indeed be doing the ol’ nip-n-tuck to talk of “consolidation.”

  42. Deathdreams
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

    RV of D,

    I think episode 9 should be called “Nipples on a breastplate”
    In every scene there would be some lazy bum sitting there and someone would say “He’s about as useful as….”

  43. Sean C.
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    Daniellica: You forgot Braavos! :P

    Dragonstone basically transitions into Braavos, so I didn’t count it separately, as it will just replace an existing location as the characters head to the Wall.

    Valyrian Plastic:
    And Dorne’s got the stay in, and the Iron Islands too. There’s no way of ending the trial-by-combat which won’t cause Dorne to rise up, otherwise Tyrion has no reason to escape either.

    Just based on what we’ve seen so far, I think those stories could be be excised or else essentially eliminated as separate POVs by only having the characters show up when they enter other stories without too much difficulty.

  44. cosca
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian Plastic,

    I don’t see how you could possibly have more bottle episodes of 3-4 story lines, in a season with 13-14 story lines or more, which is what we’d end up with if Dorne and the Iron Islands are included.

  45. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    It’s certainly possible. After all, the Tullys, the Reeds & Ramsay didn’t appear until season 3 despite being present throughout the first 2 books as well. And it was for just this reason you brought up; they didn’t need them until later on. D&D didn’t want to have characters waiting around whole seasons to do something (though that was the gist of Robb in Season 2 and Theon in 3), so they worked around Jojen’s prophetic dreams by making them Bran’s, and it worked. Maybe they could hint at Dorne’s eventual part in joining the new rebellion by keeping Ellaria around in KL or something along those lines.

  46. Daniellica
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.: Dragonstone basically transitions into Braavos, so I didn’t count it separately, as it will just replace an existing location as the characters head to the Wall.

    Do we know this? I recall some suggesting that Davos might go to Braavos while Stannis remains behind, or vice versa, or something-or-other, point being divergent paths. I don’t really give a shit; just wanted to monkey with your wrenches. ;)

  47. Hounded
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    Yeah I found it strange when D&D said that season 3 would be biggest and from then on it would start condensing. FFC and DWD expand the world massively with entirely new places (Dorne, Braavos, White Harbour, all the places in Tyrion’s travels) and there’s loads of new characters.

    King’s Landing for example will feature an almost entirely new host of characters. The KL players in season 4 will be Tywin, Cersei, Tyrion, Oberyn, Mace, Olenna, Margaery, Joffrey, Varys when in season 5 this will change to Cersei, Margaery, High Sparrow, Mace, Olenna, Harys Swyft, Qyburn, Aurane Waters, Kettleblack(s), Taena Merryweather etc

    This makes me think that either lots of characters will be cut or D&D will eventually eat their words once they’re on season 6 and have hundreds of characters in a hundred different locations.

  48. Felt Pelt
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    Thank you for the lists. The phrase “starts contracting” is pretty vague, and doesn’t mean it couldn’t continue branching in other areas. He might just mean Stannis goes to the Wall and shares the stage with the Night’s Watch and the Wildlings, and other Northerners ever after.

    Also, I really don’t think we need to see Dorne until much later. It will be easy to keep Doran a shadowy figure, with those he sends out from Dorne representing it. The Kingsmoot can be said to take place at an already established place, Pyke, with already established characters Yara-Asha, and the Damphair substitute. It might not count as expansion.

    Or he could just be talking to a reporter, hyping a season however he sees fit. I do find it hard to believe D&D will resist the cinematic nature of the Kingsmoot, with drunk Vikings making speeches.

  49. Kosis
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    I will be extremely shocked if Quentyn makes the show. I honestly think we’ll be lucky to get Arianne and not a re-worked Ellaria taking that role. I know it doesn’t make much sense now, but they’ve shown the ability to completely remake plot threads to make these types of arcs work.

  50. matt s
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    Ser Davos Seaworth:
    Rory McCann has been great as Sandor, sad he’ll be gone. When I was reading I pictured Areo Hotah as McCann (only with grey hair and beard), do you think, and this is a long shot, that they might cast the actor of a deceased character in a different role? normally I’d turn my nose up at such an idea but it actually might be plausible with McCann as Areo. Since we associate Sandor as having the distinctive burn and black hair, he would be hardly recognizable with a normal face with long grey hair and beard. Also Areo is basically a mute and they could go as far as to make him a mute on the show if they wanted. Areo and Sandor are similar characters both being tall, strong guards basically. And finally keeping McCann on as Areo would keep the actor under contract until his return as the hound in the TWOW material…


    It wouldn’t be completely unheard of… HBO did it on Deadwood with an actor coming back to play a second character after the first one died.

    Personally, I’m hoping that the theory of him being alive on the Quiet Isle turns out to be correct.

  51. kris
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    Admitted fangirl here, but I don’t think I could’ve hoped for a better Sandor then Rory. Just a good, solid fit, even when I felt the writers denied us certain attributes (I wanted fall down drunk Sandor at times!) But no matter what, Rory has the scowl and presence to make the Hound intense and heartbreaking. Anyway…regarding Sandor, there has been a lot of talk that this is it. With so many characters, unless he will be playing a role in the near future, assisting the Starks regain the north or being a sworn shield or something of the like, then D&D will just have Arya give him the “gift of mercy”. Have to admit, it would be a pretty powerful moment to see, of all people, Arya’s hand that deals the final blow but I refuse to believe D&D will just kill him off. There is little doubt that he is the Gravedigger. I always wanted a Sandor POV and might be dreaming that we will get one as the GD but I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that Clegane takes up arms again, to fight for the north/Sansa. Not trying to romanticize it but Clegane has a weakness for her, believes in her goodness. I can totally imagine him fighting for a leader/”Master” he believes in. I want him to follow Brienne. Epic fight with those two against however many, as they reach the Eryie, would be beyond insane…

    I know. I can keep dreaming.

  52. Dolorous Ned
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    cosca,

    Really interesting bit regarding the changes to Shae’s character in that interview.

    Are there any characters from the books you’ve found yourselves more invested in as you’ve written for them on the show than when you were reading, and why?

    Benioff & Weiss: Several. One obvious example would be Shae. We intended to stick faithfully to the character as depicted in the book, a flat character in the classic E.M. Forster definition, a gold-digging whore with no emotional depth. Then we saw the movie “Head-On” and fell in love with Sibel Kekilli. Once we saw her audition (one of the great auditions of all time) we knew we needed a more complex Shae. And we’re quite proud of the fact that George R.R. Martin has grown to love the show’s Shae, thanks in large part to Sibel’s brilliance in the role.

    I’m just not sure if I’d call show Shae more complex, or just more annoying…

  53. Tatters
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    Dolorous Ned,

    Well, she doesnt seem to smirk Tyrion so…

  54. Tyrionisthebest
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    Hounded:
    Sean C.,

    Yeah I found it strange when D&D said that season 3 would be biggest and from then on it would start condensing. FFC and DWD expand the world massively with entirely new places (Dorne, Braavos, White Harbour, all the places in Tyrion’s travels) and there’s loads of new characters.

    King’s Landing for example will feature an almost entirely new host of characters. The KL players in season 4 will be Tywin, Cersei, Tyrion, Oberyn, Mace, Olenna, Margaery, Joffrey, Varys when in season 5 this will change to Cersei, Margaery, High Sparrow, Mace, Olenna, Harys Swyft, Qyburn, Aurane Waters, Kettleblack(s), Taena Merryweather etc

    This makes me think that either lots of characters will be cut or D&D will eventually eat their words once they’re on season 6 and have hundreds of characters in a hundred different locations.

    So what, they will just cut large plotlines and they will get rid of most of these problems, there is no way they are going to cast minor characters like Harry Swyft or whatever the fuck his name is that even i dont remember from the books .

  55. Tyrionisthebest
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    Dolorous Ned,

    Well at least she is not the 1 dimensional character from the books .

  56. cosca
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    Felt Pelt:
    Sean C.,

    Thank you for the lists. The phrase “starts contracting” is pretty vague, and doesn’t mean it couldn’t continue branching in other areas. He might just mean Stannis goes to the Wall and shares the stage with the Night’s Watch and the Wildlings, and other Northerners ever after.

    They’ve said the universe starts contracting, it’s not vague at all. What they’re saying is that the number of story lines will start decreasing, and people will start coming together. Branching out is the complete opposite of contracting.
    Now, you may disagree as to whether this will happen or not, but it’s not vague in it’s meaning, and it’s the second time they’ve brought it up.

  57. Patchy Face
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

    Nezzer,

    I second that – either update for S4 or take the page down if not enough folks left to maintain.

  58. Hounded
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    Tyrionisthebest,

    I actually like Harys Swyft… I just picture him sat there, proud as punch, wearing his finery with his rooster sigil and little chin beard – he’s obviously so chuffed to be hand of the king and just doesn’t realize he’s only Hand because Cersei is using him as leverage against Kevan.

    I don’t see why they wouldn’t cast characters like him. They don’t have to be big parts and I know they’re not fascinating characters but they’re important for Cersei’s arc. She surrounds herself with ineffectual and weak-willed people so that she can have as much control as possible as they will do whatever she says. I they skip them and just go straight to Mace being Hand (which Cersei would never let happen) then that would cut out a large part of Cersei’s arc from FFC.

  59. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    cosca,

    Could you imagine if they cut both Dorne and the Greyjoy brothers? It’s not that far fetched. I’m prepared for anything. It’s why I don’t pay much attention to all of the posts mapping out future seasons(sorry, Ser Tahu), because chances are half of the proposed storylines won’t be in the show.

  60. Felt Pelt
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    cosca,

    “Branching” and “contracting” are not “we’ll cut Dorne.” They might have a definition of “contracting” which somehow includes AFFC/ADWD’s expansions or lumps widespread characters in one storyline.

  61. Hounded
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    Felt Pelt,

    I’m confident that they can trim and streamline FFC and DWD in general without cutting entire chunks like Dorne and Iron Islands. If they trim Cersei, Tyrion, Brienne, Jaime, Dany (which they should) then I see no reason why Dorne and Iron Islands would be cut.

  62. cosca
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    Felt Pelt,

    No, that doesn’t make any sense. Including the ADWD/AFFC expansions, would quite clearly be an expansion of the universe, because we’re introducing two whole new casts of characters, and a brand new geographical location. Trim the other story lines as much as you like, it’s still an expansion of the universe. That would mean that D&D don’t actually understand what contract means, and I find that unlikely.

  63. Robbet
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    Off topic, found these titles in a facebook page that claims they are official.

    “Episode Eight: The Mountain and the Viper.
    Episode Nine: The Watchers on the Wall.
    Season Finale: The Children.”

  64. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    Hounded,

    They won’t trim from popular existing characters just to include new storylines and characters that weren’t even that popular in the books. I’m not advocating it, but I am prepared for it.

  65. Sean C.
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    Hounded:
    Yeah I found it strange when D&D said that season 3 would be biggest and from then on it would start condensing. FFC and DWD expand the world massively with entirely new places (Dorne, Braavos, White Harbour, all the places in Tyrion’s travels) and there’s loads of new characters.

    Ooh, I forgot about Davos. So really, that’s 12 branching stories for Season 5 before any new characters are introduced.

    Daniellica: Do we know this? I recall some suggesting that Davos might go to Braavos while Stannis remains behind, or vice versa, or something-or-other, point being divergent paths. I don’t really give a shit; just wanted to monkey with your wrenches. ;)

    The promo videos show both Stannis and Davos meeting with the Iron Bank. I imagine the whole of Team Dragonstone will decamp to Braavos and then sail on to the Wall.

  66. Crozyr
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    Is it known whether Kevan’s actor returns for this season?
    I don’t remember whether he has big scenes in the third book but wouldn’t it make sense to set him up a bit more before he becomes important next season (if they want to make him important at all)?

  67. TheBlackFlame
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    RV of D,

    Seriously that is the only moment I’ve ever liked Jon Snow.

  68. Annara Snow
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

    Hoyti Von Totiy:
    go to 10.24 of this video:


    http://youtu.be/QlJblxV3QHQ?t=10m15s

    GRRM said “The heroine is never going to be raped ….”


    In the books Dany said “yes” to Drogo so he couldnt be talking about her, and no heroine has been raped so far meaning its probably Sansa or Arya that has it coming

    It seemed to me that she was being raped every other time during the early part of their marriage, since Drogo apparently took her initial “yes” to mean “yes every time you feel like it and however you like it”.

    Your speculation is really weird. What narrative purpose would there be to having Sansa or Arya raped at this point, other than the shock factor? They have already been victimized and traumatized in all sorts of other ways. If you took this quote to mean “a heroine will definitely get raped in ASOAIF!”, does it mean that we should expect Jon to lose any swordfight he may ever have in the future?

  69. Chickenduck
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    Crozyr:
    Is it known whether Kevan’s actor returns for this season?
    I don’t remember whether he has big scenes in the third book but wouldn’t it make sense to set him up a bit more before he becomes important next season (if they want to make him important at all)?

    Unconfirmed.

    There are some leaked set photos with a guy who looks like it might be him. We argued about it for a while. We’ll find out soon.

  70. cosca
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    Annara Snow,

    Yeah, she’s raped so many times she considers committing suicide, I believe. let me find the passage…

    Edit: here it is.

    every night, some time before the dawn, Drogo would come to her tent and wake her in the dark, to ride her as relentlessly as he rode his stallion. He always took her from behind, Dothraki fashion, for which Dany was grateful; that way her lord husband could not see the tears that wet her face, and she could use her pillow to muffle her cries of pain. When he was done, he would close his eyes and begin to snore softly and Dany would lie beside him, her body bruised and sore, hurting too much for sleep. Day followed day, and night followed night, until Dany knew she could not endure a moment longer. She would kill herself rather than go on, she decided one night . . .

  71. Currawong
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    Hounded:
    Felt Pelt,
    I’m confident that they can trim and streamline FFC and DWD in general without cutting entire chunks like Dorne and Iron Islands. If they trim Cersei, Tyrion, Brienne, Jaime, Dany (which they should) then I see no reason why Dorne and Iron Islands would be cut.

    One reason is that even with the high death rate so far, the show still has a huge cast of characters, and we know a couple more new ones arrive in Season 4. The writers are clearly only planning 7- 8 seasons, so it makes total sense to keep the TV series and storylines focused around those characters and arcs that have been with the show for a long time and who are familiar to the TV audience. Book fans may love all the intricate plots, sub-plots and minor characters from GRRM’s world, but the majority of show-only viewers have probably just about reached saturation point in terms of existing people, relationships, etc and how much new stuff they can cope with. They want to know ‘what happens?’ to those people they already know and love – or love to hate! – and whom they are already vested in. There’s a fine line between making GRRM’s world enjoyably complex on screen -vs- making it all just totally confusing. It may be painful to some book readers, but I do expect things like Dorne, the Iron Islands, and people like (f)Aegon, Victarion, etc to be massively trimmed or omitted altogether.

  72. Arthur
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    Annara Snow,

    Drogo never ever raped Dany…

    In the books it was made very clear that Drogo took his time with Dany and actually did care about her on their wedding night.

    He caresses her and massaged her saying softly “Yes? Yes?” Over and over again.

    When Dany finally figured out that he was asking her if it was okay to have sex with her she grabbed his hand and made his finger enter inside her and she said “Yes” to him.

    The thing Dany had to figure out how to change was the unemotional and barbaric “doggystyle” type sex.

    Once she got him to “make love” to her, so to speak, that’s when Drogo started to fall for her and on doing so, became a little soft and paid for it with his life… In my opinion anyway.

    But book Dany was never raped by Drogo, he actually was very pleasant to her considering his culture and status.

  73. Arthur
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    cosca,

    I’m not going to argue about the definition of rape because that passage does appear pretty sick and like rape.

    However I think it was more about Dany not liking the brutal “Dothraki” type sex which was painful to her…. She had to find a way to get Drogo to “make love” to her.

  74. Sean C.
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

    Arthur:
    The thing Dany had to figure out how to change was the unemotional and barbaric “doggystyle” type sex.

    No, it’s very clear from her POVs that Drogo was insisting on having sex with her when she did not want to, and when it was in fact quite painful to her.

  75. Ghost
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    What are people’s opinions on Quentyn ? Do you guys think they will even bother casting him or just get rid of the storyline? I really hope they keep all that stuff in. Gerris and Arch don’t have to be big parts either. They wouldnt take up much screen time, they would be a small role for season 5 like Oberyn is for season 4.

  76. Hounded
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    Currawong,

    Yeah I appreciate that.
    It’s really difficult for us to predict thoug because we don’t know how important this stuff is going to be going forward in TWOW and ADOS. Maybe Victarion is just there to be a method of transportation for Dany’s armies with his fleet of ships. If so he can be written out and Dany can acquire ships some other way. Or the fact the Dany is allied with House Greyjoy could be incredibly important. Vic could marry Dany. He could be a dragon-rider – we really don’t know. The same with Dorne and fAegon – they could be really important or they could not. Only GRRM and D&D know at this stage…

  77. Cersei's Brain
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    Ghost,

    I would much rather see the Manderlys than the Iron Island or the Dorne crew

  78. Sean C.
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    Ghost:
    What are people’s opinions on Quentyn ? Do you guys think they will even bother casting him or just get rid of the storyline? I really hope they keep all that stuff in. Gerris and Arch don’t have to be big parts either. They wouldnt take up much screen time, they would be a small role for season 5 like Oberyn is for season 4.

    All the stuff prior to him showing up in Dany’s court is 95% likely to be gone even if they include him. As to whether he gets included, I expect the factor there will be whether his death has such a huge impact on the behaviour of the Dornish going forward that the writers feel there’s no way to write around it. Otherwise his only real plot function is releasing Rhaegal and Viserion, and there’s a million other ways to do that, including just having them burst out of their confinement themselves.

  79. Hounded
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    Ghost,

    I posted this earlier on this thread -

    I’m a staunch defender of Quentyn. He may not be awesome or badass but he’s a character I could really relate to and felt bad for him when he died. He was just a kid trying to not let his father, his family and his country down. He’s really underrated if you ask me and I think the Meereen stuff gets way more excited once he arrives (especially when he attempts to steal a dragon).

    So yeah I like Quentyn but I think his storyline should be cut down. We don’t really need to see him and the gang travelling. I think we should meet Doran and Arianne first (preferably via Ellaria) and Arianne asks where Quentyn is. Doran tells her he’s gone to find Daenerys then we cut to Meereen and a guy presents himself to Dany, saying he’s called Quentyn. That way we know who he is and why he’s there. Then they can build up his character in Meereen with him dealing with what he’s going to do now that Dany has spurned him.

  80. wizardeyes
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    Cersei’s Brain,

    If we don’t get Lord Lamprey I will be very upset.

  81. Ghost
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    Hounded,

    I agree, I like him too. I wouldn’t care if all that stuff before Mereen gets cut, I just hope they include him.

  82. KG
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

    I think Quentyn will be in, just to illustrate how remarkable it is that Dany does NOT get fried when she tries to gain mastery over a dragon. Compare and Contrast, as they say in homework assignments.

  83. Ghost
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    Cersei’s Brain,

    I think we’ll see him, we’ve already seen one of his sons last season. I figure if they were going to cut him, why show his son. They would both be pretty small parts, hopefully we get both.

  84. Patchy Face
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

    Ghost,

    Which son and where? The North does not remember (at least this north)…

  85. Tyrionisthebest
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    Ghost:
    What are people’s opinions on Quentyn ? Do you guys think they will even bother casting him or just get rid of the storyline? I really hope they keep all that stuff in. Gerris and Arch don’t have to be big parts either. They wouldnt take up much screen time, they would be a small role for season 5 like Oberyn is for season 4.

    If they do I hope they just show him arriving at Dany and all that follows and skip his boring , shitty adventures that amount to nothing .

  86. Blind Beth
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    Re: “contracting universe”

    I don’t think that introducing Dorne/Iron Islands necessarily counts as expanding, since in II’s case we have already been there and the Kingsmoot can be accomplished without introducing more than one or two extra characters. If we get Vic, he will soon be headed Dany-wards, which would simply move him from one per-established spot to another. Ditto Tyrion’s escape. If he jumps from KL – Pentos and then quickly moves on to meet Dany, there is more contraction there than expansion. Team Dragonstone will soon be in the North rather than in their own side plot. The main thing happening in Dorne is that a) we find out what’s up with Myrcella (sort of a story contraction) and b) folks are leaving Dorne for other places such as KL and Meereen (definite story contraction). Plus the Dreadfort plotline will be colliding with first the Ironborn and then the Northern plotline, so that’s even more contraction. And Arya’s Braavosi plotline will be almost constantly dinging with others, e.g. Stannis, Sam, KL delegation, and gods-know-who else. (And she’ll probably be headed back to Westeros by S6)

    I take “contracting universe” to mean fewer disparate threads rather than fewer total characters/locations. I think this will be accomplished by cutting 90% of the travelogue portion of the story (sad for me, I liked those parts, even the Fingers) and having characters who seem destined to meet eventually do so sooner rather than later.

    If you go back and watch past seasons, just about every other episode contains a Dorne reference. I don’t think they’d make that effort for three years, make RV such a total badass, cast Ellaria so awesomely, and make the Martell/Lannister conflict so prominent if they were planning on cutting all of the Dornish plotline.

    The Kingsmoot…well, I’d love to see it, but it is more or less cuttable. We need someone to show up somewhere with a dragon horn, but everything else can be cut or reassigned. Dorne, at this point, based on D&D’s past story decisions, is largely not cuttable. Certain characters like about half the sand snakes and probably Areo may be cut, but not the whole plotline.

  87. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian Plastic,

    I love a tall man in a kilt…I’d be eating my oats every day! hehe

  88. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    Rygritte,

    Swooning means “fainting from strong emotion”. It is most often used in relation to the feeling of desire/lust.

  89. House Mormont
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

    Ghost: What are people’s opinions on Quentyn ? Do you guys think they will even bother casting him or just get rid of the storyline? I really hope they keep all that stuff in. Gerris and Arch don’t have to be big parts either. They wouldnt take up much screen time, they would be a small role for season 5 like Oberyn is for season 4.

    cut Doran, the main plot will never go to Dorne, and he will never leave.
    Keep Quentyn, cut his useless side characters & build up his role in Meereen
    hes important for releasing the dragons & giving Arianne a reason to side with Aegon

  90. House Mormont
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    Patchy Face,

    none speaking part in the Red Wedding, he had a big mermaid sigil

  91. Daniellica
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

    OT, but just read this analysis of Westerosi women in the Guardian by a medieval historian.

    This quote I appreciated especially–wish I had read it before composing my wee article about sex and violence in GoT.

    Sex sells, and what’s true for HBO’s ratings is true too for Westeros’s women who start with nothing: Tyrion’s mistress Shae, the mysterious priestess Melisandre, the prostitute Ros who runs Lord Baelish’s brothel. Unclothed female bodies offer a route up the ladder, just as armed male bodies do for the mercenary “sellswords”, who seek their fortune by fighting.

    Exactly. As I tried to argue, much of the sex in ASOIAF/GoT is about power, either its enforcement or procurement. Glad to see some women recognize this instead of just crying about being objectified.

  92. Fat Balda
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    Ser Davos Seaworth,

    Wouldn’t be unprecedented. Even happened on an HBO show. Garrett Dillahunt played Jack McCall on Deadwood. His character was (obviously) killed in the first season, but he resurfaced in a subsequent season as Francis Wolcott… *Shudders* …Just thinking about that character gives me goosebumps, and not the good kind.

  93. Ghost
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    Patchy Face,

    During the RW he was a row behind everyone and had the Manderly sigil pin on. I think he was in a couple promo stills too. No speaking parts but he was still there.

  94. Rygar
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

    Daniellica,

    Two of the women in that quote are still Hos regardless of how else you want to classify them and the third is a witch who sprung up the ladder via sorcery, not naked bosoms. Those perfectly formed mountains of flesh are just a bonus as her best attributes are the ability to queef out shadow babies and cause imminent death by scorching leetches. I hardly see the comparison.

    And I’m not gay, but I totally used the word bosoms.

  95. Rygar
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

    And I hope you got my hockey reference. Only the greatest US Born defensemen ever!

  96. Skipjack
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

    The truth is that for all that we can think of reasons why they “need” upcoming characters, they can write around that need, especially characters we know won’t make it. There aren’t any I think can’t be gotten around except maybe Euron, since we know Balon dies according to leech blood curse. Then again, they might just have the Ironborn crown some unnamed offscreen guy in Yara’s absence while trying to save Theon and that might prompt her making terms with Stannis. There are always ways to cut, if Euron doesn’t figure into the finale.

    My biggest worry as a book reader is finding out who is important and who isn’t in that exact manner, by a character being cut from the show before their story concludes in the book.

    @ Rygar Brian Leetch- saw him play in person several times. Great guy, great player.

  97. Kevin
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    As far as story convergence goes, I always think of ASOIAF as 3 main arcs: Dany, the Wall, the Iron Throne. Yeah there are satellite characters and locations but those are the big three and other than Selmy there have been no intersections between those main arcs.

    So Stannis showing up at the Wall, even though it’s really just shifting his related characters from the Iron Thone arc to the Wall arc, is the first time the series makes a move towards those three main arcs converging. Finally someone outside of Jon’s sphere is taking what’s going on there seriously. So regardless of anything else there’s finally a significant crossover between the main arcs this season.

  98. Rygritte
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ

    Swooning means “fainting from strong emotion”.It is most often used in relation to the feeling of desire/lust.

    What’s fainting?

  99. Daniellica
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    Rygar: Two of the women in that quote are still Hos regardless of how else you want to classify them and the third is a witch who sprung up the ladder via sorcery, not naked bosoms.

    They still use sex and/or their sexuality to their advantage, as a means to manipulate, as a means to try to get more of what they want, and/or their sexuality and sexual status is used against them. Using sorcery does not mean you don’t use your Delta Force, and many men have claimed for many years that is a woman’s true sorcery. :P

  100. Strider
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    Rygritte: What’s fainting?

    It’s when a girl sees blood and collapses.

    I think Rygar should have answered this John / Ygritte moment! Only fitting given your nick. Lol

  101. Rygar
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    Daniellica,

    Hos be hos. They use sex to get paid.

  102. Daniellica
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

    Rygar,

    So your profession confines all of your motivations in life? Interesting.

  103. Rygar
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 11:00 pm | Permalink

    Daniellica,

    Incorrect. Hos be hos. And bros before hos.

  104. Rygritte
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 11:07 pm | Permalink

    Strider: It’s when a girl sees blood and collapses.

    I think Rygar should have answered this John / Ygritte moment! Only fitting given your nick. Lol

    It’s pronounced “RE-gret” :D

  105. Rygar
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 11:11 pm | Permalink

    Daniellica,

    But seriously, I beg go differ that a womans vag is her true sorcery. Men succomb to the kitty because they can’t control their krakens, not because there is some magical force drawing them in. In essence, using it shows the great weakness of the man, not the strength of the woman. It does prove however that women are smarter than men.

  106. Strider
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

    Rygritte,

    That’s the thing! I don’t pronounce it, I don’t even hear it in my head. I see it on a screen:

    Rygar & Rygritte

    I think it’s beautiful. I could ship such name pairing. Also: you broke character :P

  107. Rygritte
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

    Rygar: I have never asked to be paid after sex with a man.

    Did you ask for dinner first?

  108. Daniellica
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 11:36 pm | Permalink

    Rygar: But seriously, I beg go differ that a womans vag is her true sorcery. Men succomb to the kitty because they can’t control their krakens, not because there is some magical force drawing them in. In essence, using it shows the great weakness of the man, not the strength of the woman. It does prove however that women are smarter than men.

    Exactly, and that’s the point.

    And yet almost every single reference to a women’s sexuality in every Judeo-Christian religious document (thus summing up much of the the last thousand years’ opinions on the subject) is a hysterical fear-based reaction either to a woman’s “powers” and “evil” and “wiles” regarding sex or her sexual organs themselves. “God made 10 parts of desire, and gave nine of them to woman.” Something like that. What a fucking laugh THAT is.

    Just to clarify, I know that my muffin does not possess magical powers, but that hasn’t stopped centuries of men from being absolutely terrified of its mysteries. Err, well not terrified of mine specifically, but, err…yeah. Anyway.

    That is how women can and do use sex to gain power–over the men who have power, especially in a universe this patriarchal that views women as property. The fact that a prostitute CAN exercise her power over powerful men (Tyrion, anyone?) helps demonstrate the point, a point which has been repeated in the show itself (Cercei to Sansa during Blackwater, for instance: “your most powerful weapon is between your legs”).

    I don’t quite see what your point is in repeating that “hos be hos.” That a prostitute is paid for sex? Yes, that is the definition of “prostitute.” Are you saying a prostitute cannot manipulate a man with her sexuality and thus gain any power? That the characters who are prostitutes in the show are just there to be titillating and serve no other purpose? Or do you really think women can’t use their sexuality in a way to manipulate others in a bid for power?

    Or do you just enjoy the phrase for how it denigrates all women by reducing them to nothing more than a “series of profitable holes”? :)

  109. Strider
    Posted March 31, 2014 at 11:51 pm | Permalink

    Daniellica,

    I actually agree with Rygar’s first take on that quote.

    If one generalizes as they did:
    “Sex sells, and what’s true for HBO’s ratings is true too for Westeros’s women who start with nothing: Tyrion’s mistress Shae, the mysterious priestess Melisandre, the prostitute Ros who runs Lord Baelish’s brothel. ”

    and bring out two prostitutes to back up a point that women of Westeros who start with nothing get up the ladder by selling sex, then you’ve brought the wrong demographic to the table. Prostitutes sell sex/ use sex not in Westeros but in any society. They are the definition of using sex for money. You cannot generalize based on that. It is simply ridiculous. Out of that example, you get a 2/3 view of: you need to be literally a prostitute yourself to get up the ladder. Is that the point they were trying to make I wonder.

    Why couldn’t they use someone who is not the obvious literal choice? How about Dany? She and her brother started with nothing. Her brother sold her vagina for a khalasar. That would have made a better pool of candidates to prove their point.

  110. Daniellica
    Posted April 1, 2014 at 12:07 am | Permalink

    Strider: Why couldn’t they use someone who is not the obvious literal choice? How about Dany? She and her brother started with nothing. Her brother sold her vagina for a khalasar. That would have made a better pool of candidates to prove their point.

    That particular quote was referring to women in the story without noble blood who are using sex to attain power. She talks about the other women of noble blood in other parts in the article.

  111. arya_fan
    Posted April 1, 2014 at 4:01 am | Permalink

    kris:
    Anyway…regarding Sandor, there has been a lot of talk that this is it. With so many characters, unless he will be playing a role in the near future, assisting the Starks regain the north or being a sworn shield or something of the like, then D&D will just have Arya give him the “gift of mercy”. Have to admit, it would be a pretty powerful moment to see, of all people, Arya’s hand that deals the final blow but I refuse to believe D&D will just kill him off.

    I refuse to believe it too, they’d better not doing something like that. I’m almost certain that the Hound is still alive in the books and I keep hoping that sooner or later G. Martin proves this “theory” to be correct. If that is the case, I just hope we can see mr. McCann coming back to the show because it would be a real shame to losing him.

  112. Swords
    Posted April 1, 2014 at 4:16 am | Permalink

    queenofthorns,

    Yes :)

  113. OldeCrone
    Posted April 1, 2014 at 5:13 am | Permalink

    Daniellica,

    I take your point about prostitution as practised by women who are not of noble blood. A couple of years ago I heard a talk about Lord Nelson (won the Battle of Trafalgar but died in so doing) and Emma Lady Hamilton, his sometime mistress. Emma, who was born circa 1765, came from a humble background and her father died and her mother more or less pimped her out at a very young age (I can’t remember exactly but probably pre-pubescent). She wound up as the paramour of one Lord Hamilton living in Naples. A noble lady of Naples took a shine to Emma and prevailed on Hamilton to marry her and thus she gained her title and then later she caught Lord Nelson’s eye. Actually it shocked me that as recently as two and a bit hundred years ago (in England at least) it was thought acceptable to pimp out girls who were still children really. (Danicella – I’m sorry if you are an expert on Lord Nelson etc. because I know it can be irritating if people say things you already know). I also read (though not recently) Henry Mayhew’s “London’s Underworld” and “London’s Poor”) [Mayhew was a reporter in the nineteenth century]. Apparently some prostitutes used to gather at the Haymarket in London (when it was still a hay market) and some of them went on to make “good” marriages. So some prostitutes did advance their situation. Of course for every Emma Hamilton who gained the title of “Lady” there must have been several who died of syphilis.

  114. Rygar
    Posted April 1, 2014 at 7:22 am | Permalink

    Daniellica,

    A wise maester once said, and forgive me as I paraphrase, “Bitches ain’t shit but Hos and tricks lick on these nuts and suck the dick get the fuck out after you’re done and I hops on my ride to make a quick run.”

    I think that was Pycelle.

  115. Biobi
    Posted April 1, 2014 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    As predicted, the huge pop-up ad interruptions are ruining this site

  116. Daniellica
    Posted April 1, 2014 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    OldeCrone,

    Indeed, not to mention the whole Upstairs/Downstairs dynamic of men saying important things in front of/around people they dismiss as nobodies (servants, prostitutes, the ignoble classes in general), and the whole “men like to talk…when they’re happy” thing.

    There are many examples of prostitutes throughout history maneuvering themselves into positions of power by seducing the right men, and there are examples in ASOIAF/GoT as well–isn’t Tywin’s stated hatred of whores largely because of his father’s mistress? Then there are the courtesans of Braavos; I want a spinoff series about them as super heroes. DELTA FORCE, DEPLOYED!

  117. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted April 1, 2014 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    Daniellica,

    many men have claimed for many years that is a woman’s true sorcery

    Indeed, what did Salladhor say on the show, “The one true god is what’s between a woman’s legs.”

  1. […] It means Part 2 of the sure-to-be instant classic, The Stark and The Hound, and their trail of destruction. […]


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