Season 4, Episode 1 – Two Swords – Recap
By Ours is the Fury on in Recap.

The Hound's fight

Game of Thrones is back! After months of tantalizing build-up, the season premiere has made its debut on HBO. Check out my thoughts on the premiere episode, “Two Swords,” after the cut.

Spoiler Note: This post is for those who have read the A Song of Ice and Fire series. As such the post itself and the comments will contain spoilers. If you haven’t read the books yet, you can discuss this episode in our non-book reader recap. Thanks!

In King’s Landing, Tywin Lannister orders Ice, the Valyrian steel sword of Ned Stark, to be melted down into two swords. He later presents one of the precious new blades to his son Jaime, and insists that he step down from the Kingsguard since he has lost a hand. Jaime refuses, but Tywin tells him to keep the sword anyway since he will need it, having only hand- and no family. The Kingslayer’s reunion with Cersei isn’t going any better; despite acquiring a new golden hand and making efforts to regain their closeness, she’s still resentful of his long absence and may be severing their relationship for good.

Tyrion, accompanied by Bronn and Pod, has been assigned the duty of welcoming a Dornish prince to the city as a guest of Joffrey’s wedding, but finds that the expected prince has sent his notorious younger brother in his stead- and the man has already taken himself off to a brothel.

It’s then we meet Prince Oberyn Martell of Dorne and Ellaria Sand, choosing a female whore to join them in bed. Ellaria picks one, and then Oberyn insists that Olyvar (who appears to have Ros’s old job in Littlefinger’s brothel now) join them as well. The man is joining them just as someone begins singing “The Rains of Castamere” in the brothel, distracting Oberyn from more pleasurable pursuits. He seeks out the source of the song, finding Lannister soldiers. Challenging them, the Lannister men insult Oberyn and he stabs one through the wrist. Tyrion and Bronn interrupt the fight with their arrival, and outside as they talk, Oberyn reminds Tyrion of the brutal death of his sister Elia at the hands of Gregor Clegane.

Meanwhile, Shae tries to coax Sansa into eating something, anything. Tyrion joins them and tensely asks for a moment alone with his wife. Sansa wonders how he can possibly help her, as Tyrion offers what little condolences he can. To no avail, Sansa excuses herself to the Godswood, not to pray, but to be left alone. Tyrion retires to his chambers to a familiar greeting from Shae, awaiting her Lion. Despite his warnings of the dangers of continuing their relationship, she persists, angrily (and loudly) accusing Tyrion of wanting to ship her away. Their conversation is overheard by a handmaiden who we later learn is an informant for Cersei.

Elsewhere in the city, the Queen of Thorns happily welcomes Brienne of Tarth to a meeting with her granddaughter Margaery Tyrell. The two younger women talk, and Margaery makes it clear that while she harbors no grudge against her for Renly’s death, Joffrey is the king now.

Later, Jaime and Brienne overlook Sansa praying by the water, as Brienne reminds Jaime of the promise he made to Catelyn Stark. Sansa becomes nervous as she senses someone is following her, but it turns out to be an old friend, Ser Dontos. He thanks her for saving his life, and gives her a family necklace, which he asks her to wear so that his name may have one more moment in the sun.

In Essos, one morning, Daenerys Targaryen sits with her dragons, one by her side and two flying in the sky and hunting. They tussle over a goat, and landing at their mother’s feet, misbehaving and even snapping at Dany as they fight with one another. One springs to her defense, and it’s clear to her that her babies have grown into spoiled adolescent creatures. Jorah reminds her that dragons cannot be tamed.

Daenerys arrives back at her camp to find that Daario Naharis and Grey Worm are missing, whom Barristan Selmy informs her are gambling. Accompanied by Missandei, Daenerys finds the two men, who have been balancing blades since midnight in a battle of will power to win the honor of riding beside her on the road to Meereen. Daenerys tells them that the honor will go to those who did not keep her waiting.

On the march to Meereen, Daario offers Daenerys some strategy in the form of a bouquet of flowers, with a lesson attached. The march comes to a sudden halt as they reach the first of 163 mile markers – a crucified child slave pointing the way. Ser Barristan suggests that some of her men ride ahead to bury them, but Daenerys insists that she will look upon each of their faces.

The Wildlings have set up camp South of the Wall as they await their orders from Mance Rayder. Tormund accuses Ygritte of purposefully letting Jon Snow live, but they are interrupted by the arrival of the Thenn. Their leader, Styr, trades words with Torumund, and brings a sort of gift. Well fed Crow, nicely marbled, which tastes so much better than the meat North of the Wall.

At Castle Black, we find Jon Snow and Samwell Tarly back in familiar settings. Jon recounts the last time he spoke with Robb, and the jealousy he held for his brother his entire life. Sam admits that he felt the same way about Jon, who is better than him at everything – except reading, and tells Jon that they’re ready for him. Jon must stand in front of Alliser Thorne, Janos Slynt, and Maester Aemon against charges of murder and betrayal. Jon admits to breaking his vows and warns them of the Wildling army encroaching on the Wall as they speak. Jon is excused, his head still securely on his shoulders, thanks to the grace of Master Aemon, who knows when the truth is spoken thanks to his time in King’s Landing.

In the riverlands we find Arya and The Hound up to their usual bickering as they ride on a single horse. They come upon an inn, where Arya spots Polliver, the man who killed Lommy and stole her sword, Needle. They find a seat, and soon after Polliver recognizes The Hound, pouring him some ale and urging him to join their party as they pillage the countryside. The Hound doesn’t take too kindly to all of the talk, and the lack of chicken. The inevitable happens, tables are flipped, as The Hound takes on five men. Arya watches, stunned, until an opportunity presents itself, smashing a vase over one man’s head and stealing his sword, quickly making work with it. Slashing Polliver’s leg she reclaims Needle, and begins reciting his last words to Lommy, as he finally recognizes the words, he realizes his fate. The episode ends with Arya and The Hound riding away, this time with Arya riding atop her own white pony.

 

What I Liked (and there was a lot)

The cold opening- Beautiful combination of the symbolic reforging of Ned’s sword Ice, the burning of a wolf pelt, and “The Rains of Castamere.”

Updated main credits- Love the new animations. The addition of Meereen and especially the Dreadfort gave me a thrill!

Oberyn and Ellaria have arrived- Dangerous and daring, the bisexual duo from Dorne are already shaking things up. Prince Oberyn bringing up the story of Rhaegar and Elia is a reminder that he’s not going to let the Lannisters get too comfortable with their power.

The wit- I found myself laughing quite a bit during the episode, from Tyrion and Bronn’s expected funny moments, to Maester Aemon’s retort as to why he can spot a lie.

References to the books- No, Sansa doesn’t have to eat lemoncakes, but it’s better when she does! Also: Pod’s identification of the Dornish sigils, and mentions of the Doom of Valyria, Ser Arthur Dayne, the Kingswood Brotherhood, and of course, Ser Duncan the Tall of Dunk & Egg fame.

Setting up the season- There were several very good scenes establishing the season’s trajectories: Jon’s facing the Night’s Watch council with a more adult poise, the introduction of the creepy cannibal Thenns and inter-wildling tensions, Brienne challenging Jaime to remember his promise about the Stark daughters, and more.

Arya checks a name off her list- And the Hound gets his chicken after a fantastic brawl, one of the show’s best smaller-scale fights to date. A great way to end the season premiere.

What I Didn’t Like

Crawling across Essos- The pace feels like it slows down by 50% when we switch to Daenerys’s storyline. I am liking the new Daario (Michiel Huisman) however, and I don’t mind the levity of the first scene with Grey Worm. We need a little lightness when there’s material like child crucifixions later on in the episode.


“Winter Is Coming Live” Game of Thrones, Season 4 recap show: Two Swords by Winter Is Coming


199 Comments

  1. House Baggins
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Hodor

  2. House Mormont
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    here’s the episode 2 preview

    episode 2 preview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEBi8sU0rpk

  3. King Tommen
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    6.6M viewers smashes old record. Good stuff.

    It’s the most watched HBO episode since the 2007 finale of the Sopranos.

  4. Kyrion
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    Any Good episode video reviews? List some please!

    specifically my favorite are from those that havent read the books heh

  5. MagnarOfThenn
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:17 pm | Permalink
  6. Oberyn Wan Kenobi
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    I hope you all saw the relevance of the blue rose to Dany’s story! My mind was blown when I saw it on screen!

  7. WildSeed
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Chicken sunday and Pigeon Pie ! I thought the pace worked well for the season premiere. And for once I wanted to pay attention to every scene as all proved significant in what’s ahead. The costuming, script delivery ( even Kit’s ), settings , music score , ranked supreme on my list. The historical notes mentioning knights Dayne and ser Duncan gave mw a warm & fuzzy feel ( :

    A friend of mine and fellow GoT watcher bought me a ” Crows Before Hoes ” shirt,for which I proudly wore. *>*

  8. Rygar
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    Great job Fury.

  9. WildSeed
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    MagnarOfThenn,

    wow, that’s an impressive number ! How did you like your people being represented on the screen ? Crow barbecue !

  10. theWilkman
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    Finally, Arya is becoming the Arya I know and love. Always a favorite of mine, hers is the change I’ve always had a small problem with in the show.

    I agree with you on the comedy- one of the funnier episodes so far. The Hound was killing it (figuratively) with his one liners.

  11. Jamb0
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    Oberyn Wan Kenobi:
    I hope you all saw the relevance of the blue rose to Dany’s story! My mind was blown when I saw it on screen!

    I got so excited when I saw that, along with mentions of Rheagar leaving his wife for another woman, plus mentions of the old Kingsguard. Really hoping for a ToJ flashback + surprise Ned cameo via Bran’s dreaming.

  12. Morna the Witch
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    It was excellent. I have no gripes. Plus, I saw it in good company :)

  13. TheWilkman
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    I forgot one thing – can the necklace given to Sansa by Ser Dontos be the replacement for the hair net at the Purple Wedding? Seems like we’re getting that storyline sooner than I would’ve thought, so it’s a possibility.

  14. Illuminatus
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    I loved Jon showing some backbone this early on. Yes, he was his classic mopey self when talking with Sam, but getting all up in Janos Slynt’s grill was hilarious.
    Slynt: “blah-blah-blah…I commanded the Gold Cloaks in King’s Landing”
    Snow: “Well now you’re here, so you must not have been very good at your job.”
    Boom.
    I’m sure we haven’t seen the last of mopey, brooding Jon (he’s a Stark, for gods’ sake — nobody broods like a Stark) but it’s nice to embers of leadership being stirred.

  15. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    What a great season opener! Not as good as The North Remembers perhaps but better than Valar Dohaeris certainly. I have a feeling the next episode will blow it right out of the water though, we’ll see. They even broke their record for the season’s first instance of nudity, only about 10 minutes, but enough on that matter. The Dontos reintroduction scene was well handled once the tension had been lifted, and the Tywin/Jaime scene lifted straight from the books was fantastic.

    It’s good they feel more comfortable with expanding the lore of the show with the source material (the White Book for instance). Oberyn’s introduction was awesome, as was seeing the Dreadfort in the opening sequence. An ingenious design! The final scene was the best since Winter is Coming.

    I wasn’t a big fan of both the Dany and Wildling scenes, but they were by no means awful, just not as good as the soaring dragon moments of last season. The way Tormund stated his hatred of the Thenn’s in Indy-like fashion was hilarious too.

  16. King DBC
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    Holy fuck, Oberyn is fucking perfect. The Hound saying “What the fuck’s a Lommy?” had me in stitches. Really, really good episode. Oh, and that R+L=J reference, made me act like a total fangirl!

  17. Von of the 3rivers
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    Most excellent! Loved the opening with the forging of the new swords. Well done episode!

  18. Anvil
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    MagnarOfThenn:
    http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/04/07/game-of-thrones-premiere-ratings-4/
    6.6 million viewers! BOOM!

    Are those viewers with free access to HBO (free weekend, 3 month promo subscriptions) included in these numbers?

  19. Mormegil
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    Why in the Seven Hells were Duncan the Tall’s pages in the White Book further on than Sir Arthur Dayne’s when he served many years before??????????

    The Show is Ruined.

  20. Cris
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    Is it just me or does anyone else want Eva Green to play one of the sand snakes or Arianne?!

  21. House Mormont
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    I agree with you about Essos, what I liked was all the parallels in this episode

    Like the parallels with the Season 3 opener, last time it was Dany and her little hunting Dragon, Tywin changes the KL dynamic, Jon faces Mance. This time it was Dany and her big rowdy hunting dragons, Jaime changes the KL dynamic, Jon faces Ser Alliser. The only difference character wise is that last time we had Robb and Cat (cry) and this time we have Sansa and Arya.

    Also other throwbacks, like the Hound killing people and eating meat (3×10), the entire Polliver scene (tortchaaa tortchaa tortchaaa, gold silver girls, and everything Arya says as she kills him) and Jaime walking out on Tywin with the same shot as Tyrion’s in 3×10

  22. Hoyti Von Totiy
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    Here´s the picture of the white book, on the left side is Hightowers page:

    click to zoom…

    http://postimg.org/image/km8u1fsvb/

  23. Steel_Wind
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    MagnarOfThenn:
    http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/04/07/game-of-thrones-premiere-ratings-4/
    6.6 million viewers! BOOM!

    That’s the power of HBO Hype. It was the most talked about — and most advertised — television series premiere of 2014, by a country mile. If you didn’t know it was on last night, you avoided the mass media for the past 4 weeks.

  24. Ilovejam
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Arya & the Hound absolutely made my day. Especially this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOcrJE_jW90

  25. rogue3
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    I thought the opening credits only showed locations that get visited in the episode, but neither the Dreadfort nor Winterfell get any screen time. Am I mistaken on how the credit work?

  26. Jared
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Great, great premiere. From the chilling pre-credits teaser wherein Tywin oversaw Ice being reforged to the episode-ending fight sequence that should have brought everyone to their feet, every single scene just crackled with energy. All of the characters were in top form, especially Jaime, Arya, and the Red Viper. And next week should be even better. I’m confident that this will be the best season yet.

    Also, no pressure at all, but if each week a different character on the show just happened to casually quote the The Wire, I would have no objections. “A man’s got to have a code”. Oh, indeed!

  27. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    rogue3,

    Regardless of whether they appear or not, King’s Landing, Winterfell, The Wall & wherever Dany happens to be in Essos are featured. Dragonstone & the Dreadfort shall be back next week though, and judging from the preview spot, they’ll have some really intense moments too.

  28. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    Can we talk about the preview for episode 2? That shot of the dragon flying over KL was in it again. Does Bran have a vision? That speculation has been around since that trailer first aired. Dany isn’t even in the episode is she?

  29. OhDanyBoy
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    Anvil: Are those viewers with free access to HBO (free weekend, 3 month promo subscriptions) included in these numbers?

    Typically those viewers are not counted in the ratings.

  30. Anvil
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    OhDanyBoy: Typically those viewers are not counted in the ratings.

    Well then, I guess this is good news.

  31. hath4
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    A frightened girl is forced into a human version of a fox hunt. Her pursuers eventually set the hounds on her and watch as the beasts rip her apart. from my san Antonio review of the first 3 epiosdes Ramsays bitches are not friendly dogs.

  32. House Mormont
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    Jared,

    Fantasizing about Omar Liddle and The Hound killing people together with mailed fists and a shotgun

  33. King DBC
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Better yet, Tyrion’s line, “To the proud Lannister children, the cripple, the dwarf and the mother of madness!”

  34. Rickard
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    Anyone else notice that Aria’s final words to Poliver were straight out of Martin’s latest preview chapter?

  35. SerKenjiGerrard
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    Cris,

    OH-MY-GODS…!!! That would be INSANELY PERFECT…!!!

    By the way OiTFury, do you know if we’ll be getting the Twitter recap this Wednesday as per usual…???
    Please say yes…

  36. maester brau
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    I think that the Thenn leader’s name is Styr if I’m remembering correctly. Magnar is his title. Or maybe I’m way off. I guess I could look it up, but I don’t want to.

  37. The Loon
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    maester brau,

    no you’re right

  38. smitzz
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    Rickard:
    Anyone else notice that Aria’s final words to Poliver were straight out of Martin’s latest preview chapter?

    She repeated what Poliver said to Lommy when he killed him and what Poliver said to Arry when he took Needle off her in series 2 episode What is dead may never die.

  39. Disposable
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    I can’t remember: was it in the books so clearly stated that Rhaegar left Elia for Lyanna? I think that is the most definite reveal of future book storylines yet to be seen. Not that it was hard to guess…

    Also, anyone care to guess what Cersei’s symptoms were? Moon blood w/ cramps?

  40. jentario
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    Great episode! Damn TV provider here didn’t include the season 3 recap here and my parents probably didn’t get a number of things. Never mind, though, I enjoyed it a lot! Dragons are awesome, the Hound is a beast, Arya is a good little psycho, poor Sansa, asshole Joffrey,

    Things I’m looking forward to: Bran, HODOR(!), the Reeds, Roose, Ramsay, Stavossandre, REEK REEK REEK! Roll on in, episode 2, roll on in!

  41. Lex
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    So, are the recap threads always going to be so late? We already have 400+ comments in the open chat thread, where everyone has already posted their reviews.

    I remember Phil used to put the thread up right away, then edit it later to add his review.

  42. Jeff O'Connor
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    I know, right? Freaking weird. Gotta be a vision.

  43. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    But didn’t you think that something seemed a bit off about that scene with Drogon & Dany? Like she was digitally-added in post-production or something ;).

    The Joffrey statue looked a little fake as well, but it certainly looked dickish enough to make the point it was trying to make.

    I’m looking forward to it all too, particularly the wedding stuff though, because it’ll be half the episode and about 10 minutes more seems to be happening before that lot. Stannis, Ramsay & Bran are probably going to feel the pinch in this episode, but it’s certainly preferable to no moments with them.

  44. HouseMartellBitches
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    Anyone else notice Brian Fortune returned as Bowen Marsh!

    I think it’s pretty awesome that they’re keeping him around. He’s gonna go from bit player who not a single Unsullied would recognize from Season 1 to a pretty semi-major player in season 5, who missed two seasons. I love the continuity there.

    Has R+L been confirmed in the books? Everyone has been operating off of R+L=J for years, but I really love how the show is seeding some book stuff in early, like the Mel stuff in Season three, this just keeps getting larger. Love these small reveals. Just another awesome way to keep our attention between books.

    Oh, and: Ben Kingsley for Doran Martell or I riot.

  45. jentario
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    King Tommen,

    Already broke my estimate! Holy hell! And after a great first episode, a bunch of people will tune in to episode 2- and we all know what’s coming up! The big wedding will be glorious!

  46. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    theWilkman:
    Finally, Arya is becoming the Arya I know and love. Always a favorite of mine, hers is the change I’ve always had a small problem with in the show.

    I agree with you on the comedy- one of the funnier episodes so far. The Hound was killing it (figuratively) with his one liners.

    On Arya, I think they wanted to take this change slowly, and so they have. Her first kill is really accidental (stable boy); several deaths through the intervention of Jaqen, the impulsive kill of the Frey dude. This is still a child, so to make this a slow, slow turn is really important (and it’s sad, too, to see what happens to her. Unavoidable, perhaps, but still, sad.)

    And the Hound, I think I count what, 9 killer one-liners in a 6-minute span?

    “A man’s got to have a code.”
    “Little girl wants a pony.”
    “What the fuck is a Lommy?”
    “Lots of people name their swords.” “Lots of c***s.”
    “I don’t care if he ATE your friend.”
    “You’re a talker. Listening to talkers makes me thirsty.”
    “Think I’ll have two of those chickens.”
    “I understand if any more words come out of your c*** mouth, I’m going to eat every fucking chicken in this place.”

  47. Ours is the Fury
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    Yeah, that’s what’s going to happen next week. And the recap itself also won’t be as late next week either. Sorry about that. This week, HBOGo failed on massive scale which means I didn’t get to see the episode until very late at night. And I had school early in the morning. Next week I’ll have backups and safeguards in place so if HBOGo dies again, it won’t be an issue, and of course, the post will be there.

  48. Kyle
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    hath4:
    A frightened girl is forced into a human version of a fox hunt. Her pursuers eventually set the hounds on her and watch as the beasts rip her apart. from my san Antonio review of the first 3 epiosdes Ramsaysbitchesare not friendlydogs.

    I’d love to read his full reviews.

  49. AStroKreep182
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    Did anyone else notice that they are leading us straight into Lady Stoneheart I’m talking about the war torn country side

  50. Knihti
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    Dis anyone think Conan the Barbarian intro scene when episodes intro scroll in?

  51. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    HouseMartellBitches: Oh, and: Ben Kingsley for Doran Martell or I riot.

    I like a lot of actors in this part (Alexander Siddig, too), but Kingsley would be a really effective way of sketching in the character without too much effort and drawing in people worried about remembering all the characters. You wouldn’t have to remember his name, just say “Ben Kingsley.”

  52. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    GreatJon of Slumber,

    Everyone knows Alfred Molina is Doran Martell. It’s a shame he just signed on for a new show, though.

  53. Lex
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    Lex,

    Yeah, that’s what’s going to happen next week.And the recap itself also won’t be as late next week either. Sorry about that. This week, HBOGo failed on massive scale which means I didn’t get to see the episode until very late at night. And I had school early inthe morning. Next week I’ll have backups and safeguards in place so if HBOGo dies again, it won’t be an issue, and of course, the post will be there.

    No worries, just wondering. Glad to hear there will be some consistency, despite the change of ownership, network, etc.

    Man, that HBO Go sounds pretty brutal. Didn’t it fail during the finale of True Detective as well? They gotta fix that.

  54. jentario
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian Plastic,

    I didn’t see anything weird. I saw a lot of awesome, though.

  55. obsidian
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    I don’t know if anyone’s mentioned this , but can we hear it for Joffrey’s statue ?

    Incredible work put into something only seen in passing. Greeted by loud guffaws in my household…cut to Joff standing in a very similar pose.. sweet.

  56. Hoyti Von Totiy
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    I say no Doran, no Dorne, no kingsmoot.

    No to filler caused by GRMMs writers block.

  57. Roekest
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    Disposable:
    I can’t remember: was it in the books so clearly stated that Rhaegar left Elia for Lyanna? I think that is the most definite reveal of future book storylines yet to be seen. Not that it was hard to guess…

    No it was not, but it’s intimated by several characters and, of course, Ned’s dreams and flashbacks to those days.

  58. Cris
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    SerKenjiGerrard,

    I know right! I just saw her in 300 Rise of an Empire and she totally doesn’t mind topless scenes which is perfect for a sand snake or Arianne, she would need to get a tan though… As for the episode, my absolute favorite part was The Red Viper’s face as he said “decisions”… Of course I was already blitzed of the fire and blood ale so I have to watch it about 30 more times before next week!

  59. jentario
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

    obsidian,

    I second this. The episode was filled with goodies (most of which we all spoiled for ourselves in the off-season).

  60. Shane snow
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    Cris,

    She needs to be on this show I’ve always seen her a lyanna

  61. matt s
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    TheWilkman: I forgot one thing – can the necklace given to Sansa by Ser Dontos be the replacement for the hair net at the Purple Wedding? Seems like we’re getting that storyline sooner than I would’ve thought, so it’s a possibility.

    I think you are correct. I think it was the same color as all the necklaces Olenna and Margaery are looking at so I think they want us to make the connection.

  62. obsidian
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    I imagined it was the one tossed into the shrubbery by Olenna. and later, Dontos emerges from shrubbery to approach Sansa… connected for me.

  63. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    Shane snow,

    She could have been a good Melisandre.

  64. Cris
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    Shane snow,

    Lyanna, you say, huh never thought of it, in my mind ( which is fubar compared to normal people’s) Lyanna alway struck me as a tall woman… Eva would be too short I think… But it could work, but unless they do a flash back or something like that we wouldn’t get to see her I’m afraid.

  65. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    obsidian,

    Eh, I’m assuming you’ve read the books? If so, you know how Dontos got the necklace. Plus, the necklace that QOT threw out was gold, Sansa’s wasn’t.

  66. Ye Olde Wolfe
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian Plastic,

    In terms of premier quality, I’ve always thought The North Remembers was quite poor. Its pacing was off and it just tried to do too much in one episode. Winter is Coming was perfect in my opinion, Valar Dohaeris largely fixed the problems that 201 had with pacing. In my opinion the quality goes 101 > 401 > 301 >>>>> 201.
    This was a stellar episode and I thought Oberyn’s introduction was stellar, and I was glad to see they didn’t shy away from his bisexuality. Jamie’s scenes were excellent, Arya’s entire sequence was excellent, and the cold-open was beautiful. The only parts I felt didn’t land right were Dany’s scenes… they just felt clunky and completely shifted the tone of the episode. Overall VERY pleased with this premier!

  67. Helen Tran
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    I definitely freaked out as soon as I saw the blue rose! And when Oberyn mentions that Rhaegar left his sister for someone else.

    I can’t wait until more info on that storyline makes its way onto the show, and the books.

    http://tiny-tran.blogspot.ca/2014/04/crystal-clay-game-of-thrones-part-6.html

  68. Ye Olde Wolfe
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    It’s really weird hearing people’s issues with HBOGo, because I tuned into it an hour after the premier ended, half-expecting it to be down, but I had no issues at all. Does the episode generally go up the same time it airs, or is it after it ends?

  69. HouseMartellBitches
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    Hoyti Von Totiy,

    Hell no, they’d best not drop Dorne or Doran. Not only are Dorne, Doran, Arienne, and the Sand Snakes awesome, but we still have two bloody books to go, and there has been absolutely zero indication that Dorne will play anything other than a major role in the endgame. Parts can certainly be adjusted, but Dorne is too awesome, and likely too essential, to drop. Quentyn on the other hand…

    The Kingsmoot will take a third of one episode. It’s not as bad as people think. I have total confidence in D&D being able to tighten the Iron Islands plot without cutting it, and with less internal monologue and cool character’s it should go faster and smoother.

    Griff is gonna be interesting, but also way to important to drop. With everything crammed into one season, it won’t drag as much, and with the 60 min episodes we’re starting to get, they’ll be time enough.

    Plus, given that Doran was heavily name dropped in a very clear and extensive way (ala: Mance) it’s doubtful he gets the axe.

  70. Greenjones
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    No, she ain’t in the episode. This points to weirvision.

  71. WildSeed
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    GreatJon of Slumber,

    ( : every delivery of these made me grin, wide. The man has a way with words. That’s why I began my earlier post with ” chicken sunday ” ( for those of us viewing the episode on a sunday). I wonder if Sansa was really served pigeon pie, and not squab ?

    What’s with Joffrey referring to king Robert’s ancestor as ” the Smiling Storm ” ? I really loved every minute of the episode, yet there were a few non anticipated chuckles. I’m still scratching my head with the switch to have Jaime squire for ser Selmy rather than ser Dayne ( my guess is Barristan is infamous on the show ), but viewers probably wouldn’t
    concern themselves with that.

    Ours is the Fury:
    Lex,

    Yeah, that’s what’s going to happen next week.And the recap itself also won’t be as late next week either. Sorry about that. This week, HBOGo failed on massive scale which means I didn’t get to see the episode until very late at night. And I had school early inthe morning. Next week I’ll have backups and safeguards in place so if HBOGo dies again, it won’t be an issue, and of course, the post will be there.

    Yes, this did not go without notice, and I was just about to agree whole heartily with Lex, there. I thought better about it reasoning that there may be a reasonable explanation. Thanks for sorting that out for us, Ours is the Fury. Better late than never. Thanks for giving us an outlet to speak our mind . *>*

  72. matt s
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    Rickard:
    Anyone else notice that Aria’s final words to Poliver were straight out of Martin’s latest preview chapter?

    Haha, yep. As soon as I saw that scene I thought to myself, so that’s why GRRM decided to release that chapter when he did…

  73. Lightning Lord
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    Has anyone else noticed how fantastic Djawadi’s score was in this episode? I loved it from start to finish.

    The Stark theme being slowly overtaken by the Rains of “Castamere” as Tywin destroys Ice and the wolf pelt which led right into the main title.

    There was a hint of a Martell theme as the Viper was threatening Tyrion, and what sounded like spanish guitars in the background. Hopefully we get some version of “The Dornishman’s Wife” this season that expands on this a bit.

    The Thenns had a scary intro as well, with some epic percussion.

    But definitely the best part was the way Arya’s theme (Valar Morghulis from season 2) was combined with the main title. It flowed so beautifully.

    I geek out for the strangest things.

  74. Hodor Targaryen
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    Ye Olde Wolfe,

    Agreed. 201 was the first episode where they were seriously jumping around to numerous places, and they were still struggling with how to do so. If you don’t spend enough time with each group of characters before going to the next group, nothing feels like it was accomplished in the scene. But if you spend too long with each character, and essentially just take turns with each location, episode feels slow, like 201 did.

    Two Swords did a much better job of jumping through numerous characters, but still making it flow and not feel super slow.

  75. Red Viper 9
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Great recap, OitF!

    For my money, this is the best season premiere since “Winter is Coming.” The cold open was fantastic, and the ending sequence was nothing short of brilliant. The Tywin-Jaime scene was also really good, as was the Queen of Thorns’s reaction to Brienne. And what can I say about Oberyn Martell’s introduction that hasn’t already been said.

    And can someone remind me: are the Thenns cannibals in the books? I know that Styr and Tormund never got along (glad that they showed that tension last night), but I associate cannibalism in the books with Skagos , not the Thenns (though I of course could be remembering things incorrectly).

  76. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    Lightning Lord,

    Don’t worry about it, I love the music of the show. I wish it could have bigger orchestras when required rather than samples and chamber recordings. I loved the little exotic hints of Oberyn’s Theme, which they’ll hopefully build on as his influence begins to spread. I was hoping they could’ve used this piece to herald the Dornishmen’s arrival, but much like the inn fight it worked fine without any music.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTLjeuwSEf4

  77. jentario
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    Hoyti Von Totiy,

    You might not like them, but the Dorne and the Iron Islands storylines are definitely not filler. Filler would be Dany sitting in her pyramid in Meereen. Filler would be Jon counting hams. Filler would be Sam’s obnoxiously outstretched journey to Oldtown, or Tyrion meeting a bunch of unnecessary characters in his trip to Dany.

    Dorne and the Iron Islands are actually moving plots- surprising, I know!

    In all of four chapters, we are introduced to the players in Sunspear, we see Arianne seducing a knight and making him break his vows, we see her forming a plan and acting on it, we see the plan falling apart in a bloody and tragic end. And then, after being locked away in a tower for a while, left to live with her regrets, Arianne meets her father and he reveals his plans. At face value, this all seems inconsequential- everything and everyone in Dorne is put back where it used to be. But the truth is that a lot has changed: Doran has shown his hand at last, Arianne has gone through serious character development (learning that she was just a foolish girl), Myrcella gets a very ugly bruise that will certainly not make Cersei happy when she sees it (in fact, with Cersei being the Regent in King’s Landing now that Kevan is dead, she might even announce war on Dorne and force Doran to pick up arms), we are introduced to Gerold “Darkstar” Dayne which GRRM ended up making look like a douche (though he does suggest otherwise, saying he’s “the most dangerous man in Dorne”)- it’s quite obvious that Darkstar will have an important role in the coming events (whatever it may be). Another thing is that without this, we couldn’t possibly get Quentyn!

    Quentyn- but isn’t he the most unimportant and cuttable POV character ever?! No! Quentyn dies a bit early, and can be easily written around, however he plays a very big role that people always seem to forget: he dies, and at the hand of Dany’s dragons. Imagine what Doran will think when he hears that? And with a second, far more tame Targaryen showing up at his doorstep (and the fact that the marriage contract can only be fulfilled with Aegon now, unless lesbian marriage will be allowed in Westeros): well, the obvious thing to do is to call up arms for Aegon! And when Dany comes to Westeros with her army and Fire and Blood in mind for her “nephew” in the second Dance of the Dragons… Dorne has pretty much been fucked right into the war, and dragons are on the other side. Preview chapters are already hinting at this.

    If you cut Dorne, Aegon reaches Westeros and conquers it (or at least pieces of it) with a small little sellsword army! Nope, makes no sense. On top of this- continuity matters! You can’t just have a great character like Oberyn Martell die without anyone giving a shit! We need to see the reactions of House Martell. They are a Great House, for fuck’s sake- of course they should be brought into the mix (in some way or other). To not include Dorne will just be… sloppy. Those chapters are written as if GRRM had HBO in mind- sex, seduction, battle, death, love, family issues, interesting characters… And everyone wants to bring in some more diversity to the cast. Dorne would add A LOT to the show, even if the full payoff will only happen a year later.

    On to the Iron Islands! In four four chapters (+3 in ADWD that are more relevant to other storylines), they manage to do a lot. To say that storyline is inconsequential is absolutely wrong. Clearly, Victarion is going to Meereen with a giant fleet which may or may not be the same one to take Dany and her army back home. Euron is set up as one absolutely awesome villain and a true wildcard- no one can guess what he’ll end up doing. Aeron is a bore, we can all agree on that, and I do think that he should be cut (assuming that he won’t have a major role that couldn’t be given to, say, Euron).

    Now, this is a much more flexible arc- Victarion can be cut, and his role in Meereen can be given to Euron (unless we really do need two Greyjoy brothers for future events). The Kingsmoot itself could be cut technically, but that would be very stupid. There would be no better scene to flesh Euron out, and it is just such a cool moment with cool speeches all around (Vic and Asha/Yara as well). Then the books give us an epic ship-to-ship battle (which could be fun visually, and god knows cutting action from season 5 of all seasons won’t help) and Euron sending Victarion off all the while being naked and hanging (this scene is important, but could be cut if Victarion is cut), from then on it’s Moccorro time. And he should definitely make it, right?

    I’d like to stress that there is definitely fat to cut from both storylines. I already suggested (grudgingly) the combination of Vic and Euri. Then we’ve got two Sandsnakes at Sunspear (Obara and Tyene- we really don’t need more), Areo Hotah as a featured extra level character that could be ever hidden under armor and played by different actors (or just Ian Whyte?), Doran and Arianne as the really big ones, Arys Oakheart for just a couple of episodes, no problem there and Darkstar (though if this leads to nowhere in the book he should get cut, D&D likely know how important he is). In terms of screentime, there is no issue: yes there are tons of storylines in season 5 but most of them are short: Sansa, Brienne- which is getting a lot this season, Dany, Davos, Bran, Dorne, the Iron Islands, King’s Landing- for which will get MUCH less screentime considering Tywin and Joffrey will be dead and Tyrion and Jamie away (this shrinking of KL story allows much growth for other storylines)… The only characters that will have full and long arcs in season 5 are: Tyrion, Jon, Stannis and co, Arya and Theon. There is room, the only question is what D&D want to fill it with.

    There is one negative in including these storylines: the complexity might overwhelm Unsullied. Other than that- a hell of a lot of positives. In my opinion, it’s well worth the risk of confusion, and with some smart structuring of episodes (focusing on a small set of characters each) it shouldn’t be too much of a problem.

    Wow, what a rant!

  78. Renley's Ghost
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

    Great episode. Definitely echo the sentiments of the powerful intro. Curious about the ratings: early comments state that this is the most watched program since the Sopranos finale; however, did it eclipse it? Do we know the number? I loved the Sopranos, but I have a few friends who hold it above GoT and I sure do love facts :)

  79. Andy Gavin
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    A great start to the season, and one that covered about as many of the narrative threads as humanly possible. Only a few of the peripheral stories are left out (Bran, Stannis, Theon, etc) as the writer’s really tried to put all the pieces on the board. Fortunately too, there is some of that trademark Thrones action shock factor. As always, my detailed thoughts on the episode can be found on my blog.

  80. The Rabbit
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    This opening episode was a delight. A way better than any of previous openings.
    Almmost everything was spot on. From acting to writing. From new scenes with lots of subtle referneces to the books.

    Also the music (Stark theme – Rains of Castemere combination) was great choice. Whole opening gave me shivers.

    Perfect Ep1 I would say.

  81. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    Renley’s Ghost,

    No, and it never will. The Sopranos aired in an era without HBO GO,HBO On Demand, and constant replays throughout the week. So if you wanted to watch an episode, you needed to watch it live or catch one of the few replays during the week.

    To answer your question, I believe the highest live audience ‘The Sopranos’ ever had was 13 million.

  82. Assunta
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    obsidian,

    Eh, I’m assuming you’ve read the books? If so, you know how Dontos got the necklace. Plus, the necklace that QOT threw out was gold, Sansa’s wasn’t.

    Been a while since I read them (*gasp*). Did Dontos give Sansa a necklace in the books? I though he gave her a hairnet with something like amethysts woven in it. I could totally be wrong here.

    A lot of delightful pearl clutching moments:
    Talk of Rhaegar leaving Elia for “another woman”!
    Sir Duncan the Tall!
    A blue rose!

    Squeeee!

  83. Make it sow
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    two under-appreciated scenes tonight:

    the camera pans to Pod’s curious expression after Tyrion comments that Oberyn has f^*d 1/2 the women in the realm. No doubt Pod has similar aspirations after his reward last season…

    expression of Aemon targaryen, the old blind maester with the Night’s Watch, after Jon Snow mentions getting frisky with a Wildling woman…

    both scenes oddly parallel, and their inclusion speaks volumes about the attn to detail on behalf of the showrunners…

  84. WildSeed
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    matt s,

    I haven’t read the preview chapters, but Arya’s quote to Polliver was taken from season two’s ambush and pre-Harrenhaal scene or pretty near it. Polliver spoke those words to Lommy when the boy was injured and could not walk. Polliver spoke cynically and put Lommy out of his misery, using ” Needle”, confiscated from Arya earlier. He instantly recognized his own words and ” Ari ” ( Arya ) once she said it.

  85. obsidian
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    obsidian,

    Eh, I’m assuming you’ve read the books? If so, you know how Dontos got the necklace. Plus, the necklace that QOT threw out was gold, Sansa’s wasn’t.

    Yeah , I have read the books..I meant that the very act by Olenna would probably connect her to it in my mind , if I’d not read the books…even with the necklace being a different style…leading to the later reveal..

  86. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    Assunta,

    Yes, it was a hairnet in the books, but the necklace serves the same purpose and comes from the same person.

  87. Renley's Ghost
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Renley’s Ghost,

    No, and it never will. The Sopranos aired in an era without HBO GO,HBO On Demand, and constant replays throughout the week. So if you wanted to watch an episode, you needed to watch it live or catch one of the few replays during the week.

    To answer your question, I believe the highest live audience ‘The Sopranos’ ever had was 13 million.

    Thanks for the info and analysis. Regardless, GoT is an amazing show. Couldn’t care less regarding the the Sopranos measurement to GoT! It’ll go as far as they want it to and we’ll be treated to visual astonishment.

  88. Skipjack
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    I’m in agreement about Daenerys’ storyline moving slowly. I have noticed some of the reviews have mentioned that her “supporting cast” isn’t as interesting as other locations, and I think the big problem there is that no one gets to make any decisions except Dany, so everyone is just waiting on her and has no real conflict or responsibility. If she were keeping things moving we might not notice so much but as a book reader I’m starting to think her slog is going to be even more painful to watch than to read.

  89. WildSeed
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    That would have been clever, if lady Olenna designed that ploy, with the tossed necklace. I did see a long display of gold necklace for her review, however I don’t recall if the one tossed were gold. The one presented to Sansa via Dontos certainly wasn’t. I suppose the hairnet is off the table as a plan. One thing for sure, what Dontos shared with Sansa about his mother was a nice touch to ensure she’d take it.

  90. WildSeed
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    your rant just inspired me for the entire season, rant on Jentario !

  91. Assunta
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Thanks Tyrion, or should I say, Mr. Pimpslap.

    I had a an ‘ooooooooo’ moment when Obsidian mentioned Olenna throwing the necklace over the wall and then Dontos later showing up with a necklace for Sansa. I didn’t pay attention to the one Olenna threw away so didn’t realize they were different. It just seemed like a really cool way that Ollena could have gotten the necklace to Dontos that was a sweet nod to readers looking for clues.

  92. The Kingshaver
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    Valyrian Plastic,

    At least they’re not Cave People.

    Everybody hates the Cave People.

  93. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

    The Kingshaver,

    “Thenns! I fucking hate Thenns!”

    That’s still got to be one of my favourite lines of the episode, because it put me in mind of “Nazis, I hate these guys!” from ‘Last Crusade. Everything Sandor said was brilliant too though, so I’d better call it even. ‘Can’t forget about Oberyn either, WOW!

  94. jentario
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Well, since season 5 is already confirmed (by the viewership, if not HBO), we might as well rant. Go Dorne and the Iron Islands!

    Valyrian Plastic,

    Yes, Rory was awesome. Pedro was awesome. I wonder if we have a chance at nabbing a “best supporting actor” or “best guest actor” award from the Emmys this year. We’ve already lost to Breaking Bad in the “best drama” category, but who knows what else is possible. Best episode maybe?

  95. KG
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    As the resident WoW nerd, I’ll get this out of the way regarding the Hound.

    Q: Why do you DO this shit, Leeroy?
    A: ‘least I got chicken.

  96. gewa76
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    A different time. A different king.

  97. jentario
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    KG,

    “What the fuck is a Leeroy?”

  98. iridium
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    Great episode. Ice being reforged, Arya and the Hound (Hound=Omar, yes!), and the introduction of the Thenns were among the highlights for me. Oh, and the Queen of Thorns! Always and forever, no matter what she’s doing. Her reaction to Brienne was just a delight.

    (also, am I the only one who thinks Tormund is superhot, in a wild, bearded, ginger sort of way? His hair gets higher and more amazing with each season!)

    Another of my favourites was the NW scene. So many great character moments: Sam and Jon together again; Jon laying that shit down for the Brothers council; Alliser seething; Aemon being The Smartest Guy In The Room. And Janos Slynt being hilariously pompous: I loved it when he leapt up in offense at Jon’s barb about being crap at his job…only to sit down after a bit when he realised no one else gave a fuck (or said anything to the contrary). Awkward, dude.

  99. Udi
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    I enjoyed your “rant”. Makes for a good read and you make plenty of good arguments. Been too long since I read the books.

  100. KG
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    See, if you were a WoW nerd, you’d know. We have our top-secret code talk. Like the Navajo.

    jentario:
    KG,

    “What the fuck is a Leeroy?”

  101. jentario
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    iridium,

    I’ve said it once, I’ve said it twice, I’ve said it a hundred times. THEY BETTER NOT KILL OFF TORMUND IN THE BATTLE! I can’t wait to see more of him.

  102. Unbowed
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    matt s,

    The necklaces that Marg and Olenna were looking at were gold and green, whereas Dontos’ (as far as I could tell) was a dark colored chain with light purple gems. Also, I’m thinking the wedding happens next week (it’s titled The Lion and the Rose) so it’s definitely not too early for Sansa to be getting her gift. Also, the wedding needs to happen soon because otherwise I have no idea what Jamie and Brianne are going to do in KL considering they don’t get there until well after the wedding in the books.

  103. feyrband
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:38 pm | Permalink
  104. Lex
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

    It seems GRRM loved it too, according to his blog:

    “How about Maisie and Rory? Was that great, or what?

    Of course, there were lots of other great stuff in the episode too. (Yes, I know, I’m prejudiced). Tyrion, Tywin, Jaime, Cersei, Shae, Sansa, Jon and Sam, the return of Ser Dontos, an amazing introduction of the Red Viper and his paramour. But that last scene kicked ass.

    Anyway, hope you all saw it, hope you all liked it.”

  105. Veltigar
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    Great opening episode. Confidence restored after last seasons troubled season.

    One big disappointment though: Jaime did not slap Joffrey with his golden hand :( this needs to happen :D

    Loved the statue of Joffrey. It looked absolutely shitty and for once that was 100% appropriate.

    Also agree with everyone about the reason why GRRM released the Arya chapter now.

    Martin: People gotta talk themselves into law and order before they do anything about it. Maybe because down deep they don’t care. They just don’t care. All they want is to cast Mads Mikkelsen as Euron.

  106. Eljuma
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    It took me three viewings before I found Joseph Gatt in my little screen. He plays the Thenn warg with the owl. I’m intrigued about his part. He said he’d be in 4 episodes and I doubt they cast him just to play mute in the background.

  107. jentario
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    Where is Rygar? I want to hear his opinion, concidering this episode was expertly written (which is Rygar’s biggest grope) with all those memorable lines.

  108. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    Season 3 restored my confidence after season 2. Don’t understand the sudden distaste for season 3 by a few posters.

  109. Bro
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    Oberyn Wan Kenobi,

    Bro please explain. I don’t see the relevance of the blue rose. (1) He DOESN’T EVEN CALL IT A BLUE ROSE. I believe he used the term “dusky”. (2) all he said was that DUSKY ROSES in tea form cures fever. I believe the writers did not even think about Lyanna when they wrote that scene.

  110. jentario
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I always expressed that season 3 wasn’t as good as the first two in my opinion. Then there is Shan(?) that comes in and calls himself Barristan as well. Velti is new. Other than that, we are a minority.

  111. Ye Olde Wolfe
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    Ya, agreeing with Mr. Pimpslap above, with all due respect, what show were you watching last year? Season 3 was the best the show has done yet… season 2 was the show’s low-point for me. Not to say it was bad but it definitely had the most issues. I agree about the statue though, it was excellent, and the match-cut to Joffrey in a similar pose was great.

  112. iridium
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    WHAT. Where did that scurrilous rumour come from? I’ll have their heads!

  113. Virtus
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    Hey, admins, you need to make a new poll.

  114. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

    iridium,

    From the behind the scenes video that shows Tormund fighting Ser Alliser in the battle at the Wall.

  115. jentario
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    THEY BETTER NOT DO IT, THOSE MOTHER FUCKERS.
    I love you David and Dan, please don’t do it. DON’T YOU DARE! please :,(

    I think there’s a 50/50 chance. Either Alliser dies or Tormund… I don’t think they can both make it…

  116. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    He was added to the opening credits this year, I wouldn’t worry too much.

  117. chris
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

    I can’t remember: was it in the books so clearly stated that Rhaegar left Elia for Lyanna? I think that is the most definite reveal of future book storylines yet to be seen. Not that it was hard to guess…

    No, it very definitely was not.
    Most of the recollection of that period came from Robert, NOT an unbiased source, who I think talked about Rhaegar kidnapping Lyanna and raping her. Brandon’s fateful tantrum down to King’s Landing would also imply in that direction. But everyone else, including Ned, seemed to recall Rhaegar being a really good guy who was smitten and… well… courted Lyanna, notwithstanding the fact that he was already married. Nobody ever explicitly said “they ran off together” although it sure looked that way if you read between the lines.

  118. Cerseislittlehelper
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    Can someone explain the blue rose significance?

    Thanks!

    Oberyn Wan Kenobi:
    I hope you all saw the relevance of the blue rose to Dany’s story! My mind was blown when I saw it on screen!

  119. Veltigar
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

    jentario:
    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    THEY BETTER NOT DO IT, THOSE MOTHER FUCKERS.
    I love you David and Dan, please don’t do it. DON’T YOU DARE! please :,(

    I think there’s a 50/50 chance. Either Alliser dies or Tormund… I don’t think they can both make it…

    Thorne is obviously going down (though perhaps not by Tormund). They have Slynt, Bowen Marsh and soon Locke there to play antagonist to Jon. Thorne on the other hand is seen in the trailer when giving a battlespeech of some sort so He’ll take the place of Nooye

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Veltigar,

    Season 3 restored my confidence after season 2. Don’t understand the sudden distaste for season 3 by a few posters.

    It’s not sudden when you have stated it from the get go. Season 3 was in many cases a massive letdown. Not nearly as good as it should have been. Mainly due to wonky writing and some strange death scenes ( to name just a few: mormonts wasted death scene, the entire episode ‘the climb’ which was the worst GoT episode to date, the character assasination of Loras Tyrell and the BwB, the non-presence of Catelyn, the BF saved by pipi-moment. Hell, the entire RW was ridiculously overhyped, the butchered backstory of the Unsullied, cock leeches an jar babies, etc.)

    jentario:
    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I always expressed that season 3 wasn’t as good as the first two in my opinion. Then there is Shan(?) that comes in and calls himself Barristan as well. Velti is new. Other than that, we are a minority.

    Wow wow, I’m part of the OG. I have been spreading the word after that wasted hour I spent on tbe Climb.

    Judge: This is just a dirty little village in the middle of nowhere. Nothing that happens here is really important, unless they cast Mads Mikkelsen as Euron

  120. jentario
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    I actually loved the Climb. Oh shit, I better run.

  121. chris
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    So much of the Wall has been rearranged from my fondest memories. The Battle of the Fist, for example, is my favorite moment of all the books and… poof!
    But seeing the Thenn warg brought back my hopes for another beloved bit.
    I was bummed when Varamyr got killed so prematurely but now… I wonder if, during the battle of the Wall, we’ll still get to see Mellisandre burn the eagle… or in this case the owl… out of the sky. THAT was an amazing moment which I have new hope might survive into the show.

  122. Unbowed
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    Cerseislittlehelper,

    The blue rose is a reference to Lyanna Stark, Ned’s sister and the woman Robert Baratheon was supposed to marry before she was kidnapped/ran away with Rhaegar Targaryan and eventually leading to Robert’s Rebellion. She had been referred to as the blue rose of Winterfell.
    I don’t know if there’s any real significance in Darrio showing Danny a blue rose other than it being a nod to book fans whenever a blue rose shows up.

  123. Veltigar
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    Cerseislittlehelper:
    Can someone explain the blue rose significance?

    Thanks!

    Rhaegar gave Lyanna a crown of blue winterroses when he named her Queen of Love and Beauty at the conclusion of the tourney of Harrenhal. They were Lyanna’s favorie flower and they were a symbol of their love for one another.

    Rhaegar actually deposited the winter roses in her lap. That, combined with the story about Bael the Bard has led most people to believe that the flower actually represents the fruit of their love (jon snow

  124. Strider
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

    jentario:
    iridium,

    I’ve said it once, I’ve said it twice, I’ve said it a hundred times. THEY BETTER NOT KILL OFF TORMUND IN THE BATTLE! I can’t wait to see more of him.

    There’s no possible way they do that. His role is rather large in the whole wildlings-coming-over deal with Lord Snow. And Mance is gone to Winterfell at that time. Who’s going to make a deal with Jon?! The Thenns?!?! ” I fucking hate Thenns!!!!!”

  125. Ours is the Fury
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

    Yes! I jotted “blue rose” in my notes and then forgot to put it in the recap. That gave me a happy to see onscreen.

  126. jentario
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

    chris,

    I see no other reason to include a Thenn warg but to fulfill that scene. Dat owl!

  127. Veltigar
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

    ). And later on of course Dany has a dream of a blue rose growing from a chink in the ice of the Wall. A dream that symbolizes Jon’s heritageas well as his future importance to her character and storyline (as her King, lover or whatever, the jury is still out on that one)

    jentario:
    Veltigar,

    I actually loved the Climb. Oh shit, I better run.

    It’s to late the tomahawk is already on it’s way.

    Judge: This is just a dirty little village in the middle of nowhere. Nothing that happens here is really important. If only they woud have cast Mads Mikkelsen as Euron

  128. Siobhan
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

    I just had a horrifying thought. I know it doesn’t make 100% sense, in terms of character arc timeline and overall timeline, but the combination of Qyburn’s brief appearance and Cersei’s spy made me wonder: what if Cersei gives Shae to Qyburn? What if testifying against Tyrion is her only way out of that? Still doesn’t explain how she’d end up in Tywin’s bed, plus it’s something that would be far more believable from Crazy Feast Cersei, but made me shudder enough to mention it.

  129. jentario
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    Add to that the vision at the House of the Undying about a blue rose growing in a chink of an ice wall. Are Jon and Dany really going to bang? If so, I think she’ll be his Nissa Nissa, because GRRM is too cool for happy/fairytale endings where two of the good guys marry and prance around in the meadow with their twelve children and become King and Queen. Eh, they may not bang at all. I’m not sure how I feel about it.

    EDIT: Beat me to it.

  130. jentario
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    Siobhan,

    Holy shit. I hope not. It would make it all so unfair… especially the end.

  131. Jim Cross
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:52 pm | Permalink
  132. Shock Me
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    HouseMartellBitches: Skagos

    Not to mention my favorite Dorne character Areoh Hotah

  133. jentario
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    Cris,

    I could vouch for that…

  134. jentario
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    Shock Me,

    Favorite? He’s barely a character… more of a camera, lol
    Arianne is great, though. Probably my favorite new POV from AFFC and ADWD.

  135. Veltigar
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    jentario:
    Veltigar,

    Add to that the vision at the House of the Undying about a blue rose growing in a chink of an ice wall. Are Jon and Dany really going to bang? If so, I think she’ll be his Nissa Nissa, because GRRM is too cool for happy/fairytale endings where two of the good guys marry and prance around in the meadow with their twelve children and become King and Queen. Eh, they may not bang at all. I’m not sure how I feel about it.

    EDIT: Beat me to it.

    I think that I’m one of the few hardcore bookreaders who favorna romantic pairing between the two of them. I think it would be fitting for many reasons (and of course the tears of angry posters on Westeros.org alone would make it worth it).

    Some characters will certainly have some sort of happy ending. After all it will be bittersweet. The bitter being provided by the large amount of characters that we lost and the trauma’s that the survivors are left with. But there also has to be something sweet, so sole characters will get a happy ending.

    I hope Jon and Dany are among them. If one of them has to die, which seems likely, I hope it’s Jon though. He hasalways been my favorite character in the books, so I hope he goes out with a bang.

    jentario:
    Shock Me,

    Favorite? He’s barely a character… more of a camera, lol
    Arianne is great, though. Probably my favorite new POV from AFFC and ADWD.

    Nothing beats Victarion and Cersei. Comedy gold :D

    Ben Wade: I’ve always liked you Byron, but you never know when to shut up. Even bad men want to cast Mads Mikkelsen as Euron
    [Throws him off the edge of the cliff]

  136. Red Viper 9
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    Disposable,

    As others have already said, it’s never baldly stated in the books that Rhaegar left Elia for Lyanna. There are however a number of characters — Viserys, Barristan Selmy, Kevan Lannister — who seem to believe that Rhaegar had genuine feelings for Lyanna.

  137. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    jentario:
    Where is Rygar? I want to hear his opinion, concidering this episode was expertly written (which is Rygar’s biggest grope) with all those memorable lines.

    I wish Rygar were expertly written! ;)

  138. newjeffct
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

    Roekest: No it was not, but it’s intimated by several characters and, of course, Ned’s dreams and flashbacks to those days.

    It also depends on whose Point of View they’re in – some perspectives say that she was kidnapped by Rhaegar, others say it was true love.

  139. Family, Duty, Hodor
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    Also, does anyone think Janos Slynt will be a candidate in Jon’s election replacing the role of either Cotter Pyke or Denys Mallister? In episode 9, Tormund might kill Alliser and in episode 10 or in the next season, Janos Slynt could run for election. They could perhaps play him off against Bowen Marsh when Sam plays his trick.

  140. Fat Balda
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

    TheWilkman:
    I forgot one thing – can the necklace given to Sansa by Ser Dontos be the replacement for the hair net at the Purple Wedding?Seems like we’re getting that storyline sooner than I would’ve thought, so it’s a possibility.

    Absolutely a substitute for the hairnet. And not a moment too soon, for next week come Tyrion’s humiliation, a Big Fat Westerosi Wedding and reception complete with giant pheasant (?) pie, and a mother’s tears, as her joy turns to ashes in her mouth. I for one cannot wait until the little fucker’s dead, much as I’ve enjoyed him.

  141. Richard
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    The Hound struggling with the guy who had the dagger at his throat. Good forshadowing of the Mountain’s later fight.

  142. Stark Raving Mad
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    Mormegil:
    Why in the Seven Hells were Duncan the Tall’s pages in the White Book further on than Sir Arthur Dayne’s when he served many years before??????????

    Mormegil,

    Alphabetising? Arthur, Duncan, Jaime….

    I’m just happy to see the book.

  143. Brendan
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    Holy crap the guy who said no Doran, no Dorne, no Kingsmoot should be banned from all ASOIAF forums and you are awesome!
    jentario,

  144. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    For future reference, do we need to cover spoilers in the book reader recap threads? I may be forgetting, but I didn’t think we had to in previous seasons.

  145. Jeff O'Connor
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

    jentario:
    Veltigar,

    I actually loved the Climb. Oh shit, I better run.

    Aye, good ep. Only one that was a bit of a dud last year was its follow-up, and it still had some greatness in it.

  146. fire and blood
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

    Mormegil,

    notice he was flipping the pages backward……

  147. TheDancingMaster
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    R+L = J

    Help? I’m purposely not reading the books first…own quirky habit with epic stories like this.

    Thanks

  148. Lex
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

    TheDancingMaster:
    R+L = J

    Help? I’m purposely not reading the books first…own quirky habit with epic stories like this.

    Thanks

    Do your own research, then, if you want answers. Use google. You can’t just not read the books, then ask people to explain everything from the books for you.

  149. somuchforoldtown
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

    Ye Olde Wolfe,

    I don’t think the problem is with HBO at all. I think that Verizon is throttling the data stream, just like they’re doing with Netflix. Net Neutrality. About as good as trickle down economics.

  150. Ashara D
    Posted April 7, 2014 at 11:58 pm | Permalink

    HouseMartellBitches,

    THIS! And Eva Green as Arianne? No.

    HouseMartellBitches:
    Hoyti Von Totiy,

    Hell no, they’d best not drop Dorne or Doran.Not only are Dorne, Doran, Arienne, and the Sand Snakes awesome, but we still have two bloody books to go, and there has been absolutely zero indication that Dorne will play anything other than a major role in the endgame.Parts can certainly be adjusted, but Dorne is too awesome, and likely too essential, to drop.Quentyn on the other hand…

    The Kingsmoot will take a third of one episode.It’s not as bad as people think.I have total confidence in D&D being able to tighten the Iron Islands plot without cutting it, and with less internal monologue and cool character’s it should go faster and smoother.

    Griff is gonna be interesting, but also way to important to drop.With everything crammed into one season, it won’t drag as much, and with the 60 min episodes we’re starting to get, they’ll be time enough.

    Plus, given that Doran was heavily name dropped in a very clear and extensive way (ala: Mance) it’s doubtful he gets the axe.

  151. Cerseislittlehelper
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 12:04 am | Permalink

    I like your style Lex…

    Lex: Do your own research, then, if you want answers. Use google. You can’t just not read the books, then ask people to explain everything from the books for you.

  152. Ashara D
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 12:09 am | Permalink

    jentario,

    I’m runnin’ right along with ya. I loved The Climb as well.

  153. Ashara D
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 12:15 am | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    Argh. I saw this episode the night before I read the new chapter, but I couldn’t say anything when people started speculating that D&D would somehow not include that line. Nearly killed me.

  154. Braincandy
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 12:15 am | Permalink

    The hound is the best stepdad ever!

  155. Ashara D
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 12:25 am | Permalink

    jentario,

    Long, but GREAT! Love you, brother.

  156. Arkmam
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 12:25 am | Permalink

    Good decision not to draw out the Sansa/Dontos plotline like in the books. This short meeting does the job without taking up to much of that precious screentime.

  157. TheDancingMaster
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 1:01 am | Permalink

    Lex: Do your own research, then, if you want answers. Use google. You can’t just not read the books, then ask people to explain everything from the books for you.

    So hard core it is…very friendly of you…but the 1st Sword of Bravos does not run.

  158. TheDancingMaster
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 1:06 am | Permalink

    Thanks for the conversation…uhhhh…f it.

  159. Morna the Witch
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 1:14 am | Permalink

    Red Viper 9

    Somewhere in the books it is hinted at that the Thenns have a connection to the island of Skagos. The Thenns are interesting because they do not completely have wildling structures and are more akin to a House in Westeros, in the loosest sense of the word, almost like wildling overlords.

    In a Davos chapter, when Davos is sent to Skagos, he immediately dreads it, as he heard rumours of something resembling cannibalism on that island. I believe Skagos has a Magnar as a leader. I don’t know if I’m right though.

    And that blue rose. I don’t think it’s a coincidence. In the episode it functions as a symbol of love after all, or attraction at least. And Daario gives her three different flowers. The three symbolism again.

  160. Lex
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 1:16 am | Permalink

    TheDancingMaster:
    Thanks for the conversation…uhhhh…f it.

    Okay fine.

    R+L = J is a fan theory which means Red Wedding + Lannister = Ser Jorah. In other words, the whole Red Wedding was planned by Ser Jorah, because he was trying to help Khaleesi win the throne.

  161. Morna the Witch
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 1:20 am | Permalink

    When GrrM interviewed Kit Harington via Skype at his cinema earlier this year, Kit said he thought of Jon and Dany ever met, they would either fight or fuck, which was met with raucous laughter and cheers. Then George asked how many would like to see either happen. The f*cking part got the most deafening cheers, so not everyone hates the idea, it seems.

  162. LordDavos12
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 1:24 am | Permalink

    Loved it! Can’t wait til next week!

  163. Ser Dosser
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 2:38 am | Permalink

    Anyone noticed how the Viper said Elia alway keept her children with her and never gave her children to the nurses…

    Thats Faegon hint no?

  164. Eleanor
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 3:04 am | Permalink

    Lex: Okay fine.

    R+L = J is a fan theory which means Red Wedding + Lannister = Ser Jorah. In other words, the whole Red Wedding was planned by Ser Jorah, because he was trying to help Khaleesi win the throne.

    Damn, Lex, you gave it up too easy there.

  165. quadurp
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 3:48 am | Permalink

    Good episode. Does anybody know why the Dornish aren’t black on the show like they are in the books? I was little bummed by about it.

  166. jentario
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 5:08 am | Permalink

    quadurp,

    They were never black in the books. Well, the Martells aren’t (some Dornish are- the mountain Dornish or something of that fashion). The Martells are “olive skinned”, and GRRM described them as more Mediterranean or Spanish than black skinned.
    That’s not to say that if/when the show adapts Dorne, it will be a little more colorful- I can see one of the Sand Snakes being black (aside from Sarella), Areo Hotah could be black, a lot of extras too. It would be great if the show amplifies the racial diversity in Dorne.

  167. Azzy Mahmood
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 5:15 am | Permalink

    Adding Braavos to the credits soon is going to look a-ma-zing.

  168. jentario
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 5:21 am | Permalink

    Azzy Mahmood,

    This. Meereen already looks mindblowing. Definitely worth the next three seasons we’ll be looking at it. lol

  169. nokingsmoot
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    Loved the episode, lots of easter eggs and the last scene with Hound and Arya = awesome

    To jentario and others – you can go on about Kingsmoot, Dorne etc etc and how important they are but you are in denial as badly as GRRM thinking the show won’t overtake him……

    I am a big book fan but being realistic none of that stuff is essential to the plot and the ‘value add’ vs the expense and complexity of adding all those extra characters and taking up show time will not add up in the end. Yara having already sailed away from the iron islands at the end of S3 is a pretty clear statement of intent that we are done there.

    I would be willing to bet a large sum of money that all that stuff will happen ‘off camera’ and be referred to by main characters rather than playing out in detail. Quentyn will also be dratically reduced or cut altogether.

    If they have to do AFFC and DWD in one season (which I believe is the stated plan to do all in S5) they have to cut a lot to make that work, also including Brienne’s and Jaime’s aimless wanderings round the riverlands.

    Book and show will need to diverge much more widely after this season to make the TV show viable

  170. Lulu's Mum
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    This may be old news/covered elsewhere, so apologies if it is, but someone was querying how close Joffrey’s wedding is (sorry rather long thread to try and find you again). In the UK GOT has a sister programme, Throne Cast, which usually shows a few clips from the following episode as a taster. SPOILER ALERT for next episode, sorry if I’m posting this in the wrong place :O(

    In last night’s teaser we got lots of clips of the wedding, both the ceremony and feast (inc Joffrey shouting at Tyrion to kneel before him and the giant pie). Plus if anyone else is interested Varys and Tyrion discussing Tywin; Jaime and Bronn practice fighting as per the trailer; Bran doing his thing with the tree with a face; Mel burning people, plus the bit from the trailer where she says something about there is no hell; and two very quick bits where it was difficult to see exactly what was happening but looked like Ramsay’s hunt and Shea walloping Bronn with Tyrion looking on.

  171. HouseMartellBitches
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    TheDancingMaster:
    R+L = J

    Help? I’m purposely not reading the books first…own quirky habit with epic stories like this.

    Thanks

    The answer to that might get a bit spoilers if you look it up. Even an unsullied should have enough info to make an educated guess on that given the initials.

    Suffice it to say, many book readers, myself among them, do not believe Wylla doesn’t serve the role Ned says she did, and Oberym said some stuff in the episode to back a long running theory.

  172. HouseMartellBitches
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    TheDancingMaster:
    R+L = J

    Help? I’m purposely not reading the books first…own quirky habit with epic stories like this.

    Thanks

    When you guess correctly, a lot of things will begin to make sense to you.

  173. Sansa's Knight
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    The Kingshaver,

    Valyrian Plastic- ( something about not liking the way the thenns are being portrayed as cannibals)

    The Kingshaver -At least they’re not Cave People.

    Everybody hates the Cave People.

    Me-omg ahahahahahahahahaha …. that cracked me up more than the queen of thornes did … r u a relative of hers

  174. jentario
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 11:12 am | Permalink
  175. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    Arkmam:
    Good decision not to draw out the Sansa/Dontos plotline like in the books. This short meeting does the job without taking up to much of that precious screentime.

    Agreed. That Florian/Jonquil stuff was ridiculous and irritating, and the show dispensed with it well with the Tywin/Arya conversation where she said, “Most girls are stupid.”

  176. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    Strider: There’s no possible way they do that. His role is rather large in the whole wildlings-coming-over deal with Lord Snow. And Mance is gone to Winterfell at that time. Who’s going to make a deal with Jon?! The Thenns?!?! ” I fucking hate Thenns!!!!!”

    I myself don’t think they’ll kill him in the battle either. The showrunners have been very smart about reducing the roles of characters who matter less and live a shorter period of time. The treatment of character introductions vis-a-vis the books makes some sense in this regard, to wit:

    –Ygritte becomes arguably one of Jon’s most important relationships. Her role is beefed up in Season 2. Qhorin Halfhand, a closed loop, is cut back (unfairly, I thought, but overall it makes sense).

    –Jacelyn Bywater is an unimportant character in the books but replaces Slynt as head of the Gold Cloaks. The Bronn/Tyrion relationship is one of the strongest and most interesting on the show. Bywater gets cut. Bronn becomes head of the gold cloaks.

    –Littlefinger’s relationship with Sansa eventually becomes one of the most important in her life. Dontos is not. As a result, Dontos makes one appearance in Season 2 and shows up again in Season 4, thus drastically reducing his time.

    –Tormund Giantsbane eventually becomes frenemies and later friends with Jon Snow. The Styr (in the books) is killed in one of the attacks in the same book he’s introduced. Solution: introduce Tormund at the same time as he was, but have him go over the wall; leave the Styr till season 4, and presumably he dies.

  177. GreatJon of Slumber
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    Really nice rant. A few thoughts on it, too:

    –Sam’s journey can be compressed but the sympathy we have for him and Gilly really does matter to the viewer now, and I think many enjoy that plot for the strong acting, and then the likely meet-up with Sam and Arya.

    –Filler would be Nimble Dick Crabbe and Cracklaw Point. But I have a theory here: Season 4 ends with Brienne meeting LS. Then, she spends Season 5 going south-ish to find Jaime to fulfill her vow to Cat, and we see the despair worsen and worsen (cue Septon Meribald and the Quiet Isle). Of course, this would ruin The Winds of Winter for letting people know if Pod is truly dead or not.

    –We have to have Moqorro. He rules.

    –The election of the new lord commander of the Wall should be held off to Season 5, Episode 1. It’s a great jolt at a time when we’re going to be introduced to a whole crew yet again. You can intercut it with Cersei consolidating power in King’s Landing and the Kingsmoot bringing Euron into the fray, and Dany making decisions in Meereen. And you get a leadership theme that runs through the whole season.

  178. Lulu's Mum
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    I think so, yeah. Didn’t get a chance to pay much attention to it, but that looks familiar. I think they have stuff on the Sky website…mmmm let’s have a look…..it lives here http://www.sky.com/tv/show/thronecast. It’s on after each episode and they talk about what’s happened, have interviews with the cast (Arya and Samwell this week), a sneak preview of the next episode, plus other stuff. May not be anything there for super fans who already know everything about it but a nice extra for the rest of us.

  179. jentario
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    GreatJon of Slumber,

    You obviously stole my theory on Brienne… It seems very likely that she will witness the ASOS Epilogue at the end of season 4. So my theory is that the trial and the hanging will both be in the premiere of season 5, then her true fate is revealed with “sword”, we get some BWB scenes (with Berric potentially alive!) and Brienne gets sent off to find Jaime. But there’s a twist! Instead of Stoneheart’s blind trust in Brienne from the books, she sends Thoros to accompany her! Imagine that pairing- golden. That way, there’s no need for Septon Meribald, Thoros will take his role and his speech about broken men, maybe they’ll get a fight scene… And then Brienne meets Jamie in the finale (alone, Jaime would recognize Thoros). It would mean much less Brienne in season 5, which makes room for new characters.

    EDIT: Also, Thoros could decide to stay in Riverrun and replace Tom Sevenstreams (he knows how to sing), if that becomes important.

    The election would be perfect for the season 4 finale IMO, if they can fit it in. On Sam’s journey, he only really needs one scene outside of another storyline (Aemon’s funeral and the Fat Pink Mast)- the arrival at Oldtown should be saved for early in season 6 (along with Jaqen)- it’s pointless to create new sets and cast new characters for one episode in an already bloated season. The rest of Sam’s scenes will either be in Castle Bkack or Braavos (which are part of the Jon and Arya storylines).

    Overall I think the parallel between Jon, Dany and Cersei’s ruling will remain intact- Cersei falling in episode 9ish, and the Daznak Pit and Jon getting shanked in the finale. Add Stannis’s march (and I think we’ll see both Stannis vs Yara and Stannis vs the Freys/Manderlys in season 5), Arya becoming a faceless assassin, Bran becoming a god (essentially), Tyrion’s world tour, the Aegon reveal, the expansion of Stoneheart for early in the season and the epicness of Theon’s arc… You’ve got yourself an amazing season. Add Dorne and the Iron Islands and it could be the best one yet (albeit, less flashy than season 4).

    I have a detailed layout on my computer that I think would make for a great season.

  180. Red Viper 9
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    quadurp,

    jentario,

    Basically what Jentario said.

    Tyrion describes three “sorts” of Dornishmen when he meets Oberyn in the books: “stony” Dornishmen are fair-skinned; “salty” Dornishmen have “smooth olive skin”; and “sandy” Dornishmen have skin “burned brown” by the desert sun. When he finally sees Oberyn, Tyrion immediately thinks that the Red Viper is “a salty Dornishmen for certain.”

    I’ve definitely always imagined two of the Sand Snakes — Obara and Sarella — as being dark-skinned.

  181. Scott
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    Mormegil,

    Funny, I was thinking the same thing…

  182. gisizzlah
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    it was a fantastic episode… but i didnt like the knowledge oberyn dropped… though it was alluded to several time in the book… it hasnt been explicitly stated… so to me its spoilery…

    im worried now that we’ll get other lines like that which confirms speculations that have not yet been revealed in the books….

  183. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    Bro,
    Cerseislittlehelper,

    Can someone explain the blue rose significance?

    The Blue Winter Rose was a flower that grew in and near Winterfell and Lyanna loved the smell of them. The crown that Rhaegar gave to Lyanna as the “queen of love and beauty” was made out of those roses. And finally, those roses are carved into her grave statue at Winterfell.

    He DOESN’T EVEN CALL IT A BLUE ROSE.

    The definition of dusk is the darker stage of twilight just before the sky turns black–so when the sky turns a dark blue. It’s a nice way to get the reference in without hitting book readers over the head with it.

    I believe the writers did not even think about Lyanna when they wrote that scene.

    Oh, I bet they did. They don’t miss a thing. There’s been tons of very small references and symbols that they’ve thrown in over time that are a specific to something in the book and potential clues on things to come.

  184. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    Fat Balda,
    TheWilkman,

    Absolutely a substitute for the hairnet.

    Does it bother y’all (or anyone on here) that the necklace Dontos gave her is blue (blue-green) and not at all purple? Does that mean they’ll change the story so that the poison does not come from Sansa’s necklace? Or do you think that D&D made the change in order to trick us Sullied into thinking it won’t play out as it does in the books, only to have it play out correctly anyway?

  185. jentario
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    gisizzlah,

    This has been happening since season 1. Bran told Osha “This is my aunt Lya’s crypt, she got raped by Ray Tartar”. Then there’s the Loras and Renly gay scenes, Theon getting gelded, Stannis banging Mel… The show can not use the same subtlety as the books, it needs to make things clearer since you really can’t hear thoughts of characters and the histories can’t be filled by paragraphs of exposition. This will continue to happen, too. Season 5 will probably be filled with little scenes that imply a lot about TWOW.

  186. jentario
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ,

    I don’t think so. It’s quite obvious that the necklace is the substitue for the hairnet. Yes, it’s blue instead of purple. Should we be calling it the blue wedding then?

  187. Cris
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    Yeah I would love it, but I don’t think it’s gonna happen because she is doing Penny Dreadful on Starz… Fuck it though, who ever they get to play Arianne and the sand snakes better be good actresses and damned sexy too! Or else! lol!

  188. TheWilkman
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    GreatJon of Slumber,

    You’re spot on about Arya. Without the inner dialogue in the books, the transformation had to be slower. That doesn’t mean I have to like it!

    Great quotes from the Hound, but you missed my favorite:
    Polliver – “You’re going to die over some chickens?”
    The Hound – “Someone is”

  189. TheWilkman
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ,

    I’m not sure. I don’t see how they could change the poisoner and the motives behind it without altering the story line beyond repair. Sure, they can change the delivery method, but if there’s one thing the show has emphasized over the books, it’s that the Tyrell’s are just as devious as the rest of King’s Landing (particularly Margaery), so I believe the poisoner must be one of them.
    I didn’t make the connection to Olenna throwing the necklace away and Dontos emerging from the bushes, so I’m guessing a non-reader wouldn’t either. This show is confusing enough for the Unsullied, there will have to be some more exposition other than that.

  190. iridium
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    Apologies for the tardy reply – work happened. And then it happened again. Why can’t these people understand I have other priorities??

    Anyway, thanks for the info, and if that happened I’d be a very, very sad panda indeed. Too sad to rage even…actually no, I’ll rage. Oh I will rage! And then build a shrine to his glorious ginger hair.

    P.S. Count me in as another person who loved The Climb. And Dorne. And the Iron Islands. So thumbs up to your rather spectacular rant!

  191. jentario
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    iridium,

    My spidey sense got pinged the second he was sent over the Wall with Jon. They better not. I will cry like a little girl. Nobody wants that.

  192. Sean C.
    Posted April 8, 2014 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    Arkmam:
    Good decision not to draw out the Sansa/Dontos plotline like in the books. This short meeting does the job without taking up to much of that precious screentime.

    Only if “the job” is the bare mechanics of giving Sansa the necklace, rather than all the things the Sansa/Dontos plot was actually about, such as Sansa’s character development (which has been completely short-shrifted by the writers’ changes; now she doesn’t even get to have a role in her own escape).

  193. WildSeed
    Posted April 9, 2014 at 12:01 am | Permalink

    GreatJon of Slumber,

    hahaha, I recollect dismissing this while reading and definitely surprised that it would be referenced in any episode. Aside from the brilliant but overdone conversations between Arya and Tywin, I missed the assertion. In the books, Dontos had to make a repeated effort to win Sansa’s trust, a very reasonable consideration on her part given the turmoil she’s braved through. This season’s premiere episode handled the brief encounter with remarkable if poignant finesse. Dontos made mention of the gems belonging to his late mother and given the wreck he’s made of his own life wished that they be worn in honour
    , once again. It was a stalker -turned awkward-turned sincere moment. I believed him when he appealed to her, and I believed she understood him thoroughly. I just wish I knew if these were the same gemstone necklace thrown from the balcony by lady Olenna. If so, the hairnet is out, not that I care.

  194. WildSeed
    Posted April 9, 2014 at 12:04 am | Permalink

    TheWilkman: Great quotes from the Hound, but you missed my favorite:
    Polliver – “You’re going to die over some chickens?”
    The Hound – “Someone is”

    It’s unspeakable that greatJon of Slumber missed these tasty morsels . These were included among my favourites too. Really, the Hound was en pointe for every scene. Great script.

  195. WildSeed
    Posted April 9, 2014 at 12:10 am | Permalink

    jentario,

    it was Indigo, lol. It could be any one of many geodes or gemstone, but it had a nice Azurite-like quality to it. I’m certain someone more knowledgeable will include it in the discussion following the main event-that must not be named *>*

  196. WildSeed
    Posted April 9, 2014 at 12:11 am | Permalink

    jentario:
    quadurp,

    They were never black in the books. Well, the Martells aren’t (some Dornish are- the mountain Dornish or something of that fashion). The Martells are “olive skinned”, and GRRM described them as more Mediterranean or Spanish than black skinned.
    That’s not to say that if/when the show adapts Dorne, it will be a little more colorful- I can see one of the Sand Snakes being black (aside from Sarella), Areo Hotah could be black, a lot of extras too. It would be great if the show amplifies the racial diversity in Dorne.

    *sigh*

  197. WildSeed
    Posted April 9, 2014 at 12:19 am | Permalink

    Lex,

    LMAO, that was just…..mean ………….and probably just the thing to say ,LOL !

  198. jentario
    Posted April 9, 2014 at 4:31 am | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Why the sigh?

  199. Azor
    Posted April 9, 2014 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    how did Polliver turned around after had his legs slashed?!


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