Season 4, Episode 2 – The Lion and the Rose – Recap
By Ours is the Fury on in Recap.

wedding

The day of the Royal Wedding finally came, and it was certainly one for the history books of Westeros. Check out our book reader’s recap, and share your thoughts in the comments section below!

Spoiler Note: This post is for those who have read the A Song of Ice and Fire series. As such the post itself and the comments will contain spoilers. If you haven’t read the books yet, you can discuss this episode in our non-book reader recap. Thanks!

The episode opens in the forests around the Dreadfort, with a hunt featuring an unfortunate prey. A terrified young woman is on the run from Ramsay Snow, his companion Myranda, and a pack of hounds. Reek, no longer bearing any resemblance to the man we knew as Theon Greyjoy, trails after them obediently. Ramsay claims he’ll let the young woman go if she can escape them, but Myranda takes down the victim with an arrow through the thigh. Ramsay orders his dogs to tear her to pieces.

At breakfast in King’s Landing, Jaime opens up to Tyrion about his difficulties with his missing hand. He is forced to admit he can’t fight anymore. Tyrion encourages him to practice fighting with his left hand. When his brother says he’s concerned about his difficulties becoming common knowledge, Tyrion offers up the perfect solution: a man whose discretion an absolutely be counted on- for a price.

Cut to Jaime meeting up with Bronn for practice in a private spot the sellsword usually reserves for sleeping with the very vocal wife of a knight. He admires Jaime’s Valyrian steel but points out that he’ll have to use a blunted practice weapon for the moment, because otherwise Bronn would be forced to use real steel as well- and then there won’t be anyone left to pay him, presumably after he kills Jaime. The men spar, and it’s clear that the Kingslayer has a long way to go with his left hand skills.

Ramsay Snow
Back at the Dreadfort, Roose Bolton has returned home with his bride Walda Frey, accompanied by his man Locke. Ramsay greets his new stepmother before Roose sends his wife off and asks after his “prize.” Ramsay and Locke joke comfortably with one another about the removal of Jaime Lannister’s hand. Reek is then brought before Roose, and contrary to Ramsay’s expectations, his father is not pleased with his flaying of Theon Greyjoy. Ramsay is indignant, because the flayed men are on their banners. His father gives him a harsh reminder of his bastard status: “My banners, not yours. You’re not a Bolton, you’re a Snow.”

Anxious to prove himself, Ramsay insists Reek shave him closely with a straight razor. Even with his tormentor’s throat exposed to him, Reek is meek and perfectly trained, using the blade only to scrape away his beard. Ramsay then prompts him into admitting that Bran and Rickon Stark may be alive after all, and that it was farm boys he had killed. Ramsay raises the stakes when he eggs on his servant by revealing that Robb Stark is dead at Roose’s hands- and the blade pauses. Reek is shaken, but he carries on with the shaving. Bolton makes the decision to send Locke to hunt for Bran and Rickon, and to send Ramsay and Reek to Moat Cailin.

thelionandtherose6
Tyrion’s secret romance with Shae and the danger in the situation has come to a head. Discussing their predicament, Varys tells Tyrion that he won’t lie to Tywin about Shae, and again urges him to remove his mistress from King’s Landing.

At the Royal Wedding breakfast, Margaery’s father Mace presents Joffrey with a golden goblet, and the king addresses him as Father. Tyrion gifts his nephew The Lives of Four Kings, “a book every king should read.” Tywin tops them all when he brings in the Valyrian steel sword, the second one produced from the remains of Ned Stark’s sword Ice. Joffrey tests his new sword (dubbed “Widow’s Wail”) by chopping up The Lives of Four Kings while his guests look on aghast.

After the disastrous gift-giving, Tyrion slips away with Shae, only not for a happy moment. He announces he is sending her away to Pentos, informing her their “friendship” is over. Shae correctly calls out that he is still afraid of his father , but Tyrion pushes on, declaring that he can’t be in love with a whore and can’t have children with a whore. He presses on until Shae is sobbing. She refuses to be led out by Bronn, slapping him and running out on her own.

thelionandtherose5
On Dragonstone, Melisandre leads a burning ceremony, with Queen Selyse looking on in rapture as several people who refused to accept the Lord of Light are sacrificed- including her brother. Davos is angry about the ceremony and challenges the wisdom of burning loyal subjects who provided ships and only disagreed about the religion. Stannis abides by Melisandre’s decisions for the moment, however. His wife, who is similarly swayed by the Red Woman, is also concerned about their daughter calling her “sinful.”

Melisandre approaches Princess Shireen in her chambers and discuss the conflicting stories of the gods. The priestess assures her that the only hell is the one we live in.

Beyond the Wall, Bran in hunting through the eyes of Summer, and attacks a deer. Hodor awakens him and his friends remind Bran that he needs to live in this world, in his human body or he will forget everyone he cares about. Among a group of trees in the snow, he spot a heart tree, and has Hodor bring him to do it.

Reaching for it, a series of visions flood his mind, including: a weirwood tree, the three-eyed raven, Ice in Ned’s hands, Ned in the Black Cells, a man’s voice telling Bran to “Look for me beneath the tree” and to go “North,” a man’s face within a tree, the female wight we saw in the first episode of season 1, ravens, the White Walker’s dead horse, the snowy throne room from Daenerys’s vision in the House of the Undying, Bran falling from the tower at Winterfell, and the shadow of a dragon over King’s Kanding.

thelionandtherose3
At the Great Sept of Baelor, King Joffrey Baratheon marries Margaery Tyrell, with all the nobility of King’s Landing looking on.

The festivities move to an outdoor reception where the highborn denizens of the city mingle with entertaining results. Tywin Lannister and Olenna Tyrell duel with words over finances, and the Queen of Thorns brings up the Crown’s debt to the ruthless Iron Bank of Braavos. She takes the opportunity to chat with Sansa about a possible visit to Highgarden someday, and the newlyweds take in a fresh rendition of “The Rains of Castamere.” The new queen Margaery prompts Joffrey to offer the leftovers of their wedding feast to the poor.

Loras and Oberyn share flirtatious glances, before Loras is distracted by bumping into Jaime. Jaime warns Tyrell off marrying Cersei, and Loras makes it clear he knows just what the deal is with the Kingslayer and his sister. Elsewhere at the reception, Cersei approaches Brienne, having picked up on the fact that the warrior may be in love with Jaime- and she doesn’t like it one bit.

Oberyn introduces his paramour Ellaria Sand to the Lannisters, and the group exchange barbs behind polite smiles. The Red Viper ends the conversation by dropping the guise of civility and referencing the deaths of his sister and her children, murdered by Lannister men.

Joffrey then decides it’s time to unveil a special surprise- a reenacted War of the Five Kings, with every king played by a dwarf. Tyrion seethes over the humiliation but sits quietly, asking Pod to pay the players extra gold when they’re done. The skit escalates in intensity, with dwarf versions of the kings dying, as Tyrion and Sansa look on, sickened. Joffrey pushes Tyrion to enter the fray with a spare costume, but he uses his wit to avoid the king’s game. Furious at being thwarted, Joffrey pours wine over his uncle’s head. Margaery tries to break the tension with a toast, but the king insists Tyrion be his cupbearer.

A massive pie arrives, and Joffrey grabs his sword to cut it open. Doves fly out of the pie, and the king takes a slice while forcing Tyrion to refill his wine cup. And then it happens. The king begins to cough. Tyrion steps forward, concerned.

Joffrey drinks more wine, thinking to wash down the cough. But his cough grows worse, and it’s clear- he’s choking on something. Margaery shouts, and people jump to their feet. In the chaos, Dontos Hollard grabs Sansa and pulls her away, warning her she must escape immediately if she wants to live.

Joffrey drops his goblet and staggers away from his queen, and falls to the ground, retching. His mother and father run to him, and Cersei cradles his head. On the dais, Tyrion picks up the king’s fallen goblet. The king is dying slowly, his face turning purple with blood streaming from his nose. With his last gasps, Joffrey raises his arm, and it’s as though he’s pointing at his uncle Tyrion.

And then it’s all over. The king is dead.

Cersei screams, accusing Tyrion of poisoning Joffrey. She demands that the guards take Tyrion in custody.

What I Liked

The suspense is terrible…I hope it’ll last- The last ten minutes of the episode was an exercise in perfectly drawn out tension. The silences, the epic reaction shots, and Jack Gleeson and Peter Dinklage carrying the scene brilliantly.

Getting everyone together in one place- Seeing Cersei and Brienne, Loras and Oberyn, Loras and Jaime, Brienne and Joffrey, and various combinations of players that we don’t usually get to see together playing off one another is a rare pleasure.

Swapping Bronn in for Ilyn Payne- When Wilko Johnson was diagnosed with a serious illness and it was apparent he would no longer be doing GoT, many fans hoped Bronn would become Jaime’s training partner instead, and they were right. Giving the sellsword another opportunity to shine instead of languishing in the background is a smart move.

Bran’s vision- We’ve lost several prophecies in the adaptation from book to screen, so I’m happy to see Bran’s visions through the tree being featured in this episode. The symbolic images and potential prophecies (including that shot of the House of the Undying throne room- hmmmm) should give the fandom food for thought for some time. It will be very interesting to see what the Unsullied viewers think of Bran’s vision.

What I Didn’t Like

Burning Man- The Dragonstone scenes felt much weaker than the others, and Stannis is still a puzzle much of the time.


313 Comments

  1. Alex
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:06 am | Permalink

    Hodor !!

  2. Hexonx
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:07 am | Permalink

    Joffrey!

    Full version of Sigur Ros’ Rains:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3QW8PVyyNM

  3. Tomas Hedwyn Savage
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:18 am | Permalink

    Having just reread that fateful chapter, I must say, that last scene was fantastically adapted, not quite as ‘straight out the book’ as its redder sister, but still brilliant. Particularly the actual choking scene.

    The only thing is Penny, not sure what they’ll do about that, further down the line.

  4. Bean
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:19 am | Permalink

    Loved the episode. Have to re-watch the wedding, as it’s weird when you know what’s coming. But a great episode in every scene.

  5. Hexonx
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:19 am | Permalink

    At least the Fannis’ got an Axell Florent shout out.

  6. Rillion
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:19 am | Permalink

    Raising a glass of wine to toast King Tommen, first of his name! (too soon?)

  7. Joh
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:22 am | Permalink

    The costume design was gorgeous as always, but I especially liked the silver rose stems twining around Joffrey’s Baratheon stag crown, almost like they were choking the life out of it.

    The Bran scenes, The Dreadfort scenes, the Dragonstone scenes, everything in King’s Landign leading up to the Wedding was spot on. The wedding itself moved at a glacial pace. It was almost surreal.

    There was nothing wrong with it…it was just weird. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a television episode paced quite that way before.

    Joffrey’s makeup…holy crap, those special effects!

    And Oberyn. He may not be the eldest Prince of Dorne, but he is the prince of sick burns.

    Also, when Ser Dontos pulled Sansa away, did anybody else hear “come with me if you want to live?”

    I think I misheard what he really said, but it made me laugh.

  8. Kraken's Daughter
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:25 am | Permalink

    The Dragonstone scenes were good. It’s the first time Melissandre has mentioned the dark god. May be they would have worked better in a different episode like the premiere.

  9. cosca
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:26 am | Permalink

    Tomas Hedwyn Savage,

    They’ll cut her, thank R’Hllor.

  10. Nick Legit
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:27 am | Permalink

    Can someone who has read the books tell me if dragons can eat raw meat? or do they have to cook it? because im looking all over the internet and everything has that dragons in game of thrones cannot digest raw meat that it has to be cooked. Like during the red waste scenes her baby dragons refused to eat meat because it was raw. but last season in the tent she fed her dragons raw meat and then this season in the first episode they were eating a raw sheep…

  11. Fluff's Travels
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:30 am | Permalink

    Tomas Hedwyn Savage,

    I noticed one of the actors’ face was covered. I think that’ll be Penny. Just like when they covered Jaqen at the end of season 1.

  12. Zychotous
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:30 am | Permalink

    What does Tywin say to Cersei when they are at the feast talking about Shae? I watched it like 5 times and couldn’t understand what he said. Something about before the wedding?

  13. Sansa Bird
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:31 am | Permalink

    I just realized how much I will miss Jack Gleeson, he was truly a wonderful part of the show no matter how much we loathed Joffrey. He will be missed not only by the fans, but the cast as well. Everyone seemed to adore him.

    I really liked the acting in this episode, specifically the King’s Landing sequences. There was enough wit and humor to balance out the tense and more gruesome aspects. Joff’s death was well done, I loved the shot of his purpled, bloodied face. Lena’s acting at the end was wonderful, I can’t wait to see more of her grieving Cersei.

    Bran’s weirwood scene was phenomenal, in my opinion. It was stark and shocking with just enough mystical elements to be somewhat realistic, the shots of Ned were heartwarming and heartbreaking all at once. Hope we see more scenes like it in the upcoming episodes.

    Kerry Ingram’s acting as Shireen was lovely!

    And once again, Sansa being my favorite character, I must say, applause to Sophie Turner for this episode. She never gets very many lines yet she manages to translate Sansa effortlessly onscreen. The looks she gives Joffrey at the breakfast when he mentions killing Ned and then her cold, 100 yard stare during the reenactment of the War of the Five Kings? Absolutely gorgeous. This is her season, hands down.

    Sweetlings and snow castles here we come.

  14. Tony Stark
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:31 am | Permalink

    I’m just happy that Lannister Bastard is dead. “Winter is Coming”

  15. val
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:32 am | Permalink

    The tension was incredible, even when I knew what was coming. I actually thought it was happening at one point and then the pie came. I loved that they included Olenna fiddling a little with Sansa´s hair and necklace, but without making it too obvious.
    I can´t even remember much about the rest of the scenes right now

  16. Thoros
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:33 am | Permalink

    I too enjoyed the multiple scenes throughout this episode that intertwined multiple conversations between characters we have not seen happen before. Renewal of Tyrion and Jaime scene. Jaime meeting Bronn. Ramsay, Reek, and Roose. Oberyn and Ellaria with Tywin and Cersei, Oberyn and Ellaria and Loras. Jaime and Loras. etc…

    I really enjoyed the dynamic of how each character interacts with one another. Very great episode of fun and interesting interactions.

  17. Zack
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:33 am | Permalink

    I loved every moment of the episode. Can’t wait to rewatch tomorrow but it was everything I dreamed and more

    I loved Roose/Reek/Ramsay

    Nick Legit,

    They’re dragons. They have a built-in food cooker.

    When they’re babies, they probably need help with that.

  18. Nick Legit
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:35 am | Permalink

    Zack,

    but they were eating the sheep raw… lol no one seems to be able to answer this. and the meat she threw in the tent was also raw.

  19. Zack
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:40 am | Permalink

    Nick Legit,

    But it’s not like the fire just comes into existence outside of them. They make it inside and spew it out. Adult dragons probably char it as they’re biting and swallowing.

  20. BTR
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:40 am | Permalink

    Disagree strongly with the dislike of the Dragonstone scenes. Stannis and his entourage remain some of the most interesting characters on the show. They, even more than the Dornish, testify to the diversity of thought and culture within Westeros. Moreover, the showrunners are right to play up the religious and prophetic angle.

    Also, Carice van Houten is one of the most underrated performers on the show. Her presence is incredibly and she brings a depth to Melisandre that I was not expecting.

  21. Lord Stannis's Soul
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:40 am | Permalink

    Another shout-out to Prince Doran Martell in this episode. I think it’s safe to assume that the Dorne scenes will be around next season.

  22. Yureina
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:41 am | Permalink

    Nick Legit:
    Can someone who has read the books tell me if dragons can eat raw meat? or do they have to cook it? because im looking all over the internet and everything has that dragons in game of thrones cannot digest raw meat that it has to be cooked. Like during the red waste scenes her baby dragons refused to eat meat because it was raw. but last season in the tent she fed her dragons raw meat and then this season in the first episode they were eating a raw sheep…

    I don’t think that’s an issue, if only for this reason:

    Raw Meat + Dragonfire = Cooked Meat

    As for the episode, I thought it was great. The first half or so felt a little disjointed and rushed to me, but perhaps that was because I knew that the major event of this episode would take place at the very end. And it did. The Stannis scene in particular felt unnecessary. Something they threw in less for its quality or advancing plot-threads and more because “we need to have a Stannis scene now.” Perhaps that opinion will change if something further comes from that scene, such as from the Melisandre-Shireen interaction.

    But maybe that’s just my problem. Knowing what was coming, and having far less interest in anything else that was going to happen in this episode (except for Ramsay and Roose meeting, which was cool), kinda weakened those other scenes in favor of the main event.

    Can’t wait for the next one! :D

  23. Nick Legit
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:43 am | Permalink

    Yureina,

    the sheep and the meat in the tent wasnt cooked at all… the sheep was fricken white and bloody lol. someone needs to admit that the show creators missed that.

  24. Nick Legit
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:44 am | Permalink

    They ate raw meat on screen… there wouldnt be any time to breathe fire so therefor their bodies should reject it.

  25. FrYo
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:45 am | Permalink

    Royal Weddings are the best. Also, was I only one who saw how Margaery very deftly avoided drinking from that cup when Joffrey gave it to her.

  26. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:47 am | Permalink

    I liked it much better on my rewatch, specifically the wedding feast. It was masterfully directed, leading unsullied to speculate, mostly incorrectly(geez the TWOP veterans still are so clueless), about who did the deed. I think the show needs to reveal who did it in the next episode to avoid having people wonder who did it all season. It has more impact knowing who did it, especially for one particular character, moving forward.

    I thought the Dreadfort scenes were okay, certainly better than anything last season, but may have fit better in another episode.

    Did anyone else notice they followed Melisandre talking about the Great Other with Bran getting a vision from Bloodraven? Was that foreshadowing to BR’s ultimate intentions?

  27. Zack
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:47 am | Permalink

    Nick Legit:
    They ate raw meat on screen… there wouldnt be any time to breathe fire so therefor their bodies should reject it.

    Please understand…

    raw food entering dragons mouth + fire inside dragon = cooked food entering dragon belly

  28. UnbowedUnbentUnhodor
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:47 am | Permalink

    Zychotous:
    What does Tywin say to Cersei when they are at the feast talking about Shae? I watched it like 5 times and couldn’t understand what he said. Something about before the wedding?

    ive been wondering this aswell

  29. berkelberkel
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:48 am | Permalink

    Nick Legit,

    Are you trolling? Maybe it was a mistake, maybe only baby dragons need charred meat. Either way, I don’t think anyone else cares about rawmeatgate.

  30. Bronn's Wit
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:49 am | Permalink

    I loved how you could see Olenna fiddle with Sansa’s necklace, palm something, and then the far right stone was missing!

    I didn’t like how they cut out Joffrey clawing at his own neck…also a bit more panic and suffering would have been good!

  31. Ser Davos Seaworth
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:50 am | Permalink

    watched the episode with my brother and he said ‘it’s obviously Oberyn Martell because he wants to fuck the lannisters up…’ sweet summer child

  32. Zack
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:50 am | Permalink

    UnbowedUnbentUnhodor: ive been wondering this aswell

    He wanted to have her sent to his chambers prior to the wedding

  33. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:51 am | Permalink

    Zychotous,

    “Have her sent to the Tower of the Hand before the wedding.”

  34. Carl
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:51 am | Permalink

    Great final scene! What a gloriously ugly exit Jack Gleeson had.
    Also a shout out to Isaac. I really like the scene where Meera told him about he will lose himself if he keep being inside the wolf.
    Bran just look down without saying anything, his face looks like he’s holding the tears back. Such a heart breaking scene.

  35. Nick Legit
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:52 am | Permalink

    berkelberkel,

    it was a mistake, everyone ive asked is trying to rationalize it and they sound stupid. lol if they can cook the food inside their bodies they wouldnt feel the need to state that if dragons eat raw meat their bodies would reject it. so you’re saying when a dragon consumes food it is never raw? please tell me how that makes sense. and no! not trolling just kind of annoyed that they missed something so little after they spend only god knows how much money on the special effects of the dragons… -_-.

  36. Ser Davos Seaworth
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:53 am | Permalink

    UnbowedUnbentUnhodor,

    take her up to the tower of the hand BEFORE the wedding…

  37. Zack
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:54 am | Permalink

    Nick Legit,

    Rather than headdesk and talk to brick walls I’m going to just move on :)

  38. Nick Legit
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:54 am | Permalink

    there are people that care though when you’re creating a fantasy world that could be as big as lord of the rings and they cant get the lore down consistently… yes they writing and attention to detail and the costumes and props are amazing but yeah i am a perfectionist and i can easily find flaws in everything… its a curse but i like consistency

  39. Nick Legit
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:57 am | Permalink

    Pyre,

    cause you know they breathe fire from their throats… *sarcasm*

  40. spacechampion
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:57 am | Permalink

    What the Flick has their discussion up.

  41. Hexonx
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:57 am | Permalink

    Ser Davos Seaworth:
    UnbowedUnbentUnhodor,

    take her up to the tower of the hand BEFORE the wedding…

    So this means Bronn betrayed Tyrion most likely.

  42. Bronn's Wit
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:57 am | Permalink

    UnbowedUnbentUnhodor,

    “Have her brought to The Tower of the Hand before the Wedding”

  43. Chriss
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:58 am | Permalink

    Brilliant. And more Doran. Yes, yes, yes.

    OH. AND Moat Cailan. Raises hopes for the Iron Born.

  44. MX
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:59 am | Permalink

    Love, love, love Jack Gleeson. One of the people who restored my faith in acting, after the horrible, flat 1990s and 2000s.

    As an historian and former amateur actress, I also admire his decision to quit acting and dedicate himself to other interests. Yet I hope that he will occasionally act, at least on theater stage.

    Bravo Jack!

  45. Zack
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:00 am | Permalink

    Nick Legit,

    I’ll say it real slow and limit the words in my sentences

    1-Maybe dragons can’t digest raw food.
    2-For baby dragons, they need a parent or a helpful Khaleesi to cook it for them. They haven’t mastered fire-making. They’re babies. They’re not good at things.
    3-Adult dragons can make their own fire. This fire begins inside them, and shoots out at will. They can cook food outside, or inside. It’s not like their insides are gonna get burned. They’re dragons.

    You’re the only one having problems here.

  46. BTR
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:02 am | Permalink

    UnbowedUnbentUnhodor,

    “Bring her to the Tower of the Hand before the wedding,” or a close paraphrase.

  47. berkelberkel
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:02 am | Permalink

    Nick Legit,

    I must have missed the part of the show where they whipped out a dragon science book and stated that as an irrefutable fact. One possible alternative is that speculation made by characters in the show about the eating habits of just recently un-extinct mythical animals was not 100% accurate. Why am I arguing about dragons on the internet?

  48. Zychotous
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:04 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Ya I watched it again it and finally figured it out.

  49. Restore The Day
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:06 am | Permalink

    Nobody else mentioned it so I will: I’m really not liking what they did with Shae’s exit. It makes character sense in the context of the show, for now, but it’s going to make events down the road a lot less satisfying/shocking/etc.

    Oh well.

    WRT: raw meat. As babies, they need someone to roast their meat. As pups, they would fry a fish mid-air before swallowing. As teens, maybe they’ve learned to micro-roast the meat while in their mouth, or maybe their organs are now ready for raw goat. Who’s to say.

  50. JamesL
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:10 am | Permalink

    Some people seem to be confused with what they are doing with Shae but to me it is pretty obvious. In books Shae never really loved Tyrion but in the show she does so they needed a reason for her to betray him. Now that he has tried to ship her away she is angry with him thus giving her a reason to betray him. She is not in Pentos, she will be brought out during the trial to betray Tyrion.

  51. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:11 am | Permalink

    Nick Legit,

    Let it go. The dragons weren’t even in this episode. They probably just didn’t want to spend the extra CGI money on the fire.

    As Cordelia Chase would put it: You sprayed on too much obsession for dorks.

  52. Zack
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:17 am | Permalink

    Restore The Day,

    Hehe. You make me laugh. Thanks. Common sense FTW :)

    Another thing I loved about the episode was that the girl in the opening being chased was one of Theon’s tormentors last year. I thought that was a super creepy way to illuminate the way Ramsey values even his allies. Much more of a ‘Jesus, that’s messed up’ moment than if it had been some random peasant girl we’d never met before

  53. Marcin
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:18 am | Permalink

    val: The tension was incredible, even when I knew what was coming. I actually thought it was happening at one point and then the pie came. I loved that they included Olenna fiddling a little with Sansa´s hair and necklace, but without making it too obvious.
    I can´t even remember much about the rest of the scenes right now

    There is also another shot which shows Olenna mere inches from the goblet (this was when Joffrey put the goblet away for a moment before drinking from it and dying).

    And Sansa herself, when she hands the goblet over to Tyrion, holds her palm over it.

    So the hints are all there, but they are done so perfectly that people who did not see the poisoning coming will notice them only on re-watching.

  54. Marcin
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:21 am | Permalink

    Gotta give it to Joffrey – he was a master dickhead. Not everyone can pick an entertainment that would personally offend more than half people at the high table.

  55. Zychotous
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:26 am | Permalink

    JamesL:
    Some people seem to be confused with what they are doing with Shae but to me it is pretty obvious.In books Shae never really loved Tyrion but in the show she does so they needed a reason for her to betray him.Now that he has tried to ship her away she is angry with him thus giving her a reason to betray him.She is not in Pentos, she will be brought out during the trial to betray Tyrion.

    Which brings up the question of rather Bronn betrayed him or not

  56. Andy Gavin
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:30 am | Permalink

    All in all a great episode, fairly focused as it goes (at least in the second half), and centered around Tyrion (who is such a delight on screen). Yep, I’m surprised George R. R. Martin ever got married himself if these kind of weddings are on his mind. Although he did date a woman for over twenty years before getting around to it. As always, my detailed thoughts on the episode can be found on my blog.

  57. Claire Johnson
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:34 am | Permalink

    FrYo,

    Margery set the cup on the table in front of Olenna. I see what they did there :)

  58. Black_Goat
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:37 am | Permalink

    + Joffrey’s death. Spooky, yet satisfying.

    - Dinklange wasn’t very good in the scene where he sends Shae away.
    - Moat Cailin just being introduced. Once again, the show isn’t very good with the geography.
    - Some strangely pointless interactions at the wedding. Cersei and Pycelle in particular comes to mind.
    - I’m not sure I buy Brienne just sort of walking around KL. The Stormlords aren’t very well trusted at this point, and she defected to Catelyn besides.

  59. Maximillian
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:45 am | Permalink

    If you’re such a perfectIonist that easily finds flaws in everything you should have little effort with the below quote. :D but seriously– who cares.

    Nick Legit:
    there are people that care though when you’re creating a fantasy world that could be as big as lord of the rings and they cant get the lore down consistently… yes they writing and attention to detail and the costumes and props are amazing but yeah i am a perfectionist and i can easily find flaws in everything… its a curse but i like consistency

  60. Dave
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:47 am | Permalink

    Amazing episode. They nailed the Purple Wedding more than Red Wedding and I liked RW episode. I hope you guys are going to do an interview with Jack Gleeson after this episode. Is he still going to quit acting? It’s a shame if that’s so. But if another profession is what he wants to do, and not because he fears a few nutters who can’t tell from reality to fiction will harass him, I guess he’s free to pursuit it. But if he wants to go back to acting, he can just show them clips from GoT.

  61. Sean C.
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:47 am | Permalink

    Sansa Bird:
    And once again, Sansa being my favorite character, I must say, applause to Sophie Turner for this episode. She never gets very many lines yet she manages to translate Sansa effortlessly onscreen. The looks she gives Joffrey at the breakfast when he mentions killing Ned and then her cold, 100 yard stare during the reenactment of the War of the Five Kings? Absolutely gorgeous. This is her season, hands down.

    It’s difficult for it to be “her season” when the show so consistently cuts her story. Here she was basically turned into a background character in scenes based on her own POV chapter.

    But maybe getting away from Tyrion, Margaery et al. will force the writers to actually make her the focus of her own scenes, finally, since it’s pretty obvious that that would never be allowed so long as she’s in King’s Landing.

  62. loco73
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:50 am | Permalink

    Just finished watching the episode again! Excellent in its entirety! Once again big thumbs up for Jack Gleeson! He was fantastic all the way until that last shot of his face! Way to go out!

    As for for Joffrey, in the immortal words of The Hound, “Fuck the King!” …

  63. Lex
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:50 am | Permalink

    Very strong episode!

    - Joff’s wedding was pretty close to how I imagined it in the books. I was very satisfied with his final scene.
    - The Red Viper was good, again! So was Ellaria Sand.
    - The Selyse stuff was kind of meh… but the burning scene was intense. Goodbye Axell Florent, we hardly knew ye!
    - The Ramsay and Roose scene was very well done. Really enjoyed Roose’s acting. Also, Alfie’s acting was excellent! Although as a book reader I wish Reek’s physical transformation was a little more aparent (white hair, etc.).
    - Not really liking Ramsay’s girlfriend. Kind of silly.

    So far, we’re off to an amazing start this season. It’s only episode 2, but feels like mid/late season. I wonder if there will be a lull in the middle, like last year.

  64. Hexonx
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:57 am | Permalink

    Lex: The Red Viper was good, again!

    I’m surprised he didn’t massacre Sigur Ros for singing Rains. :D

  65. zod
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:57 am | Permalink

    Black_Goat: – Some strangely pointless interactions at the wedding. Cersei and Pycelle in particular comes to mind.

    That’s not pointless. It introduces her dependence on Qyburn.

  66. Reza
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:59 am | Permalink

    Is anyone else noticing all the changes/differences between the scenes we have seen in the trailers/promos and the actual scenes in each episode?

    Last week the scene between Jaime and Joffry when he said The war is not won was totally a different shot than the one in the trailer

    There was a scene between Cersi and Oberyn’s lover where she says I dont know what to call you and she responds Ellaria works for everyone (it was in the bastards promo video) which was cut from their encounter at tonight’s episode…

    Just seems strange to me that the final cut is different from the trailer scenes…

  67. LordVega
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:59 am | Permalink

    adense,

    I came here to see if anyone noticed exactly that. Could that be the lands of always winter / heart of winter, from his dream in AGOT?

  68. Hodor Targaryen
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 3:09 am | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    Pretty sure the entirety of the Purple Wedding was actually in Tyrion’s POV. Maybe the cutting of the book was in a Sansa chapter, but that’s it. Sansa’s POV I think begins with the bells ringing for the King’s death as she follows Dontos, so pretty much immediately where this episode left off.

    So, ironically, you’ve maybe accidentally pointed out a scene where we get more of Sansa’s reaction to something (the dwarf show) than we did in the books. I certainly don’t remember reading about Sansa’s reaction to seeing a dwarf version of Robb being beheaded in front of her.

  69. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 3:17 am | Permalink

    If I ever start a girl band, it will be called Ramsay’s Bitches.

  70. GeekFurious
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 3:19 am | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger:
    If I ever start a girl band, it will be called Ramsay’s Bitches.

    I have a band already and we just stole that name.

  71. smitzz
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 3:19 am | Permalink

    Great episode , the death scene was really well done ,it looked painful but I don’t like new Tommen , what happened to cute Tommen from the past series? :<

  72. wizardeyes
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 3:21 am | Permalink

    I really liked the little touch of Sansa handing Tyrion the goblet (can’t remember if that happened in the book?) – it was a nice kind gesture to end their relationship on. Kind of a shame we won’t get to see more of their marriage!

  73. Valdred Dethstorm
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 3:22 am | Permalink

    smitzz:
    Great episode , the death scene was really well done ,it looked painful but I don’t like new Tommen , what happened to cute Tommen from the past series? :<

    He was recasted.

  74. Red Viper 9
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 3:37 am | Permalink

    Black_Goat,

    I’m fairly certain that Balon mentioned seizing Moat Cailin — or the very least the Neck — in season 2 when he shared his attack plans with Theon and Asha/Yara. Also, all of Robb’s battle maps in season 3 clearly show the Greyjoys holding the lands north of the Twins.

  75. Valdred Dethstorm
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 3:38 am | Permalink

    Not that it matters much, but I wonder when is Balon Greyjoy going to die.
    It’ll probably happen offscreen, like in the book.

  76. GeekFurious
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 3:56 am | Permalink

    Impressive use of spoiler tags, Valdred…

  77. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 4:08 am | Permalink

    GeekFurious,

    Spoiler Note: This post is for those who have read the A Song of Ice and Fire series. As such the post itself and the comments will contain spoilers. If you haven’t read the books yet, you can discuss this episode in our non-book reader recap. Thanks!

  78. Nick Manfredi
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 4:15 am | Permalink

    It couldn’t be that Stanley burnt who I assume is supposed to be Axell Florent because “He attempted to betray us to the Lannisters and made moves behind my back”. No, it had to be “He was an infidel who refused to take down idols of the Seven and accept R’hllor”. I’ve never been one to hop on the “THE PRODUCERS HATE STANNIS!” train, but that particular scene didn’t sit too well with me. At least he didn’t look pleased to be doing it, and the following scenes at dinner and with Shireen were great.

    Other than that minor gripe, fantastic episode.

  79. Bran The Builder
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 4:19 am | Permalink

    Can someone explain what Bran saw? I mean the part where he sees the reflection of a White Walker in the ice just after the vision recap of Dany’s HoU vision of the throne room… Is that future … if yes then has that already happened in the books?

  80. zod
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 4:19 am | Permalink

    They handled the poisoning very well. Unsullied are scratching their heads, wondering who did it.. but when you know where to look at, it’s all there on the screen.

  81. S21E01
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 4:23 am | Permalink

    Bronn’s Wit:
    I loved how you could see Olenna fiddle with Sansa’s necklace, palm something, and then the far right stone was missing!

    I didn’t like how they cut out Joffrey clawing at his own neck…also a bit more panic and suffering would have been good!

    YES!! Exactly! I wanted blood to be pouring down that bastard’s neck! What a dumb thing to omit!

  82. Standozone
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 4:30 am | Permalink

    Does nobody wonder why Lord Greyjoy is represented as defeated in the reenacted War of the Five Kings?

  83. Hexonx
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 4:31 am | Permalink

    Nick Manfredi,

    I’m far from a purist, I had to look this up, but Axell Florent is one of the Queen’s Men (Selyse) and a believer in R’Hllor. He’s also Selyse’s uncle not brother. Per A Wiki of Ice and Fire:

    Axell takes charge of the household of his niece Queen Selyse at Eastwatch-by-the-sea. He uses the title Hand of the Queen. He accompanies Queen Selyse to Castle Black after she sets out for the Nightfort. There he is to marry the eldest daughter of Gerrick Kingsblood.

    Davos says Lord Florent, I believe, and Shireen calls him Axell so it does appear to be him in the show. He’s not that important of a character and probably wouldn’t have shown up anyway so maybe they just wanted to give him a shout out?

  84. Tori Targaryen
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 4:31 am | Permalink

    He didn’t claw at his neck, but I didn’t care. The scene was grim, and I actually shed a tear!!! Not so much for Joffrey, shit deserved to die, but it was more for Cersei holding her little boy. Didn’t expect to be doing anything other than cheering, but shed a tear, I did!

    Ding dong, the bitch is dead, people!

  85. zod
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 4:32 am | Permalink

    Standozone,

    Because Joffrey is fairly convinced that he has already won the war?

  86. CONFIRMED
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 4:33 am | Permalink

    Shireen is the Great Other!

  87. Hexonx
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 4:38 am | Permalink

    Tori Targaryen: The scene was grim, and I actually shed a tear!!! Not so much for Joffrey, shit deserved to die, but it was more for Cersei holding her little boy.

    Yeah, you’re still watching a boy choke to death. You could see the fear in his eyes. Anyone one with empathy would feel sad about that even if you’re glad he’s dead.

  88. Penny Targaryan
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 4:41 am | Permalink

    Bran The Builder:
    Can someone explain what Bran saw? I mean the part where he sees the reflection of a White Walker in the ice just after the vision recap of Dany’s HoU vision of the throne room… Is that future … if yes then has that already happened in the books?

    It’s hard to say. It could be just Bloodraven showcasing Bran all the magical elements in the world, white walkers, dragons, wights…
    I don’t really think that the dragon is referring to Dany’s dragons or other dragon specifically.
    But the least we can say is that this scene’s canon cause it’s written by GRRM himself.

  89. Slartibartfatsdomino
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 4:58 am | Permalink

    Valdred Dethstorm:
    Not that it matters much, but I wonder when is Balon Greyjoy going to die.
    It’ll probably happen offscreen, like in the book.

    It kind of has to happen off-screen if they want to maintain the ambiguity over whether he was murdered by Euron Crow’s-Eye or not.

  90. Slartibartfatsdomino
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 5:03 am | Permalink

    Standozone:
    Does nobody wonder why Lord Greyjoy is represented as defeated in the reenacted War of the Five Kings?

    I wondered for a second, but then I thought that it’s pretty much because Joffrey doesn’t care much about the Greyjoys as there’s no Greyjoys around to humiliate, whereas he was able to humiliate Loras, by having the Renly mummer riding a Loras puppet, and Sansa with the reference to the Grey Wind’s head being sewn to Robb’s body. No Greyjoys to humiliate meant that Joffrey, that cruel little shit, gave no real specific instructions to the Greyjoy mummer about how to act.

    I came to this conclusion because it’s clear in the Stannis/Ramsay scene that the Iron-born still hold Moat Cailin.

  91. Nesaia
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 5:08 am | Permalink

    I wonder if they already killed Balon offscreen?
    The part with the five dwarfs at the wedding made me think so, because it is implied that Joffrey is the only survivor of the War of the 5 Kings and the Balon dwarf also says “I’m drowning! I’m drowning!”

  92. CONFIRMED
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    Balon is already dead now in the time line.

    You’re mother is a whore.

  93. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 5:35 am | Permalink

    (Academic Voice)

    “Second Episode Syndrome or SES. Many shows (including this one) have suffered from it. It results from luring people in during the premiere with some great moments then failing to deliver on the follow-up. But thanks to a treatment administered from the pen of one George R.R. Martin, we have at least found a temporary cure for said problem.”

    In other words: BEST… EPISODE… EVUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

    Bar Blackwater maybe. I’m off to find some PW reaction videos. If I don’t find even a single disgusted face I’ll have lost all faith in humanity.

  94. CONFIRMED
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 5:37 am | Permalink

    Wu-Tang Clan ain’t nuthing ta fuck wit

  95. Matt
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    Two things:

    1. Where the hell is Kevan Lannister? (AGAIN). He is so important, he’s been introduced already… we know more Lannisters aren’t going to survive Season 4. They need to start re-introducing him, because he becomes the new Lannister head figure. Plus his death is accompanied with an enormous game-changing revelation, also Pycelle’s death.

    2. During Bran’s vision at the tree there is a shot of what looks like a slightly more human-looking White Walker’s face, reflected in some odd looking ice. I wonder if it’s Coldhands?

  96. NomadicDirewolf
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 5:47 am | Permalink

    Nesaia,
    They probably would’ve mentioned it if he were already dead, maybe he already died off screen, but even if he did its clearly not public knowledge, as his death would have plot altering consequences to the Bolton and the Yara storylines, and also possibly sets the stage for an expanded Iron Islands plotline next season, so they would make a far bigger deal out of it. The fact that Balon ‘drowned’ is probably just poetic licence, since its Robb that kills him (and this certainly isnt true)and the fact that Joffrey is the last one standing shows that
    a) everyone treats the war as being over
    b) no one is paying much attention to the greyjoys right now
    which are both true indications of the general feeling in KL right now

  97. CONFIRMED
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 5:50 am | Permalink

    I love it when you call me Big Pop-pa

  98. Tori Targaryen
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:02 am | Permalink

    Hexonx,

    Exactly, in the end, he wasn’t born that way, he was made that way…. By Cersei. She made a monster that had to be slain.

  99. Athena Lannister
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:04 am | Permalink

    FrYo:
    Royal Weddings are the best. Also, was I only one who saw how Margaery very deftly avoided drinking from that cup when Joffrey gave it to her.

    Remember the scene with Margaery and Joffrey, when he was showing her how to use a crossbow? She asked ‘ do you think i could kill somebody?’ and he asked ‘yes’ :). Whats more, Before that Tyrion said to Shae (in another scene) ‘you’ve come to dangerous place, full of dangerous people’ and after tis ‘dangerous pepple we see Margaery in another scene :).

  100. NomadicDirewolf
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:08 am | Permalink

    Very strong episode, especially for a second episode.
    Weirdly, some of my favourite things about this episode were smaller things, i really enjoyed the scene with Bran and the Reeds, the warging, dialogue and then the first look at the weirnet were done really well and it was just a very strong scene, especially from a storyline which isnt amongst my favourites.
    Also, loved the scene with Oberyn, Tywin and Cersei, I couldnt help but feel that, both in terms of appearance and acting ability, they’ve casted Oberyn perfectly.
    I didnt really think the Bolton scenes felt out of place, I thought that they too were very strong, and the Dragonstone scenes werent the best of the episode, but I thought the burning was done well. Also liked the Bronn and Jaime sparring partner development, hopefully we will being seeing more of that dynamic.
    The Purple wedding itself was pulled off well, and pretty close to the book, I imagine it would have been more exciting for unsullied, but as sullied its still very interesting to watch, both because its a very good scene, and also because of the subtleties they put in there which are apparent if you have read the books, particularly with the QoT, if you look closely, when she is speaking with Sansa, one of the gems on her necklace disappears
    Also another interesting thought, given that we know how the whole Shae situation will eventually end up, has Bronn betrayed Tyrion? It could be that he really did put her on the boat and she is gone but will be brought back, but then they probably would have shown it on screen, going to be interesting to see how that develops
    All in all, a great episode, where most of the scenes were very strong. Good to see Joffrey has finally kicked it, sad to see Jack Gleeson go though

  101. Golden
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:18 am | Permalink

    So, since we see Olenna messing with Sansa’s hair, was the necklace a red herring aimed at book readers? I don’t think that Dontos could be a player in two games, or that Littlefinger and Olenna designed one together ;)

  102. TM
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:25 am | Permalink

    Matt,

    While purists would hate this, I wonder if Pycelle might take his place.
    He has been revealed in the show to be smarter and more able then he appears, maybe it’s Pycelle’s time to shine!. Plus the audience already knows who he is and the characters share the same fate.

  103. Johan Sporre
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:31 am | Permalink

    Excellent episode, but not one of the absolute best (after one watch). Felt the scenes in the first half were too varied in setting and quality to match Blackwater or Castamere.
    Great wedding scenes with some fantastic acting and a terrific end. Loved that Sansa handed the cup to Tyrion.
    Where are you all reading the great unsullied speculations?

    I wonder how Shae’s story will play out. Did Bronn lie to Tyrion or will someone intercept the ship? Or maybe she’ll be omitted from any further story in KL.

  104. Oh_Man
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:33 am | Permalink
  105. zod
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    Golden,

    She took a gem from Sansa’s necklace.

    http://hpics.li/151b19c
    http://hpics.li/735dc43

  106. Shady_Grady
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:39 am | Permalink

    I thought the Dragonstone scenes were a little rushed but I liked the scenes with the seemingly sullen Bran being warned about the dangers of warging. As far as Joffrey goes Gleeson really brought the character’s ceaseless malice to life. I can’t say that I’ll miss the character but the wordless confrontation between Joffrey and Tyrion was magnificent.

  107. JamesL
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:49 am | Permalink

    The only thing I don’t like about this Shae plot change is that it looks like they are now also having Bronn betray Tyrion. Bronn lets Tyrion down in the books by not fighting for him but that is not betraying him, they were still friends. I’m hoping that Tywin or Cersei found a way to get Shae after she left without Bronn knowing. Hopefully Bronn had nothing to do with it and really thinks she is in Pentos.

  108. freoduwebbe
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    Nick Legit:
    berkelberkel,

    it was a mistake, everyone ive asked is trying to rationalize it and they sound stupid. lol if they can cook the food inside their bodies they wouldnt feel the need to state that if dragons eat raw meat their bodies would reject it. so you’re saying when a dragon consumes food it is never raw? please tell me how that makes sense. and no! not trolling just kind of annoyed that they missed something so little after they spend only god knows how much money on the special effects of the dragons… -_-.

    I just thought that was her teaching him ‘flame on’…. not that he’d starve if he ate raw meat. Like teaching a dog to sit up before getting his treat. Lets face it she’s used the command to great effect since then.

  109. Hobert's
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    Zychotous,

    Subtitles

  110. Koi No Yokan
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:18 am | Permalink

    JamesL:
    The only thing I don’t like about this Shae plot change is that it looks like they are now also having Bronn betray Tyrion.Bronn lets Tyrion down in the books by not fighting for him but that is not betraying him, they were still friends.I’m hoping that Tywin or Cersei found a way to get Shae after she left without Bronn knowing.Hopefully Bronn had nothing to do with it and really thinks she is in Pentos.

    Bronn says he was followed, and believes it was Varys. But, as we know, Tywin ordered Shae to be taken when Cersei pointed her out at the breakfast feast. So no, Bronn isn’t betraying Tyrion.

  111. jentario
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    Did not yet watch the episode. Trying to avoid the details, but I had to pop in here for this:
    http://grrm.livejournal.com/365715.html#comments

    Very good news to fans like me that have not yet read Dunk and Egg. The full collection will include tons of illustrations and will (apparently) release in 2015.

  112. Tori Targaryen
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    Oh_Man,

    Original credit song?

  113. MUGger
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    Penny Targaryan,

    That vision of the dragon could also be in the past instead of the future.

  114. king tyrion
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:22 am | Permalink

    We missed a very important line from the books “I am no stranger to Valerian Steel! “ are the show runners never going to touch on that mystery? Or maybe a certain character will reveal it later when explaining their master plan?

  115. Matt
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    NomadicDirewolf,

    holy shit balls, you’re right. QoT totally takes one of Sansa’s jewels! and after there is one blatantly missing! Nice catch!

  116. Catherine
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    Tomas Hedwyn Savage, Did we see the face of the Robb ‘actor’? Could have been Penny underneath.

  117. Shmofo
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    jentario:
    Did not yet watch the episode. Trying to avoid the details, but I had to pop in here for this:
    http://grrm.livejournal.com/365715.html#comments

    Very good news to fans like me that have not yet read Dunk and Egg. The full collection will include tons of illustrations and will (apparently) release in 2015.

    Excellent news! His publishers are very keen to publish one ASOIAF-related book per year, we know Lands are out in 2014, the Dunk&Egg series in 2015, so what will he publish in 2016?

    I hope it’s something completely new. Not a rehashed material. I would enjoy some tales from Essos, like “Tyroshi Slavegirl Nipple and his Pentoshi Master” or something like it, where he can flesh out the worldbuilding and histories of Essos, which would make my 23rd reread of ADWD even more enjoyable.

  118. unclesmog
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    No-one seems to have mentioned there is an audible ‘clink’ when the QoT walks passed Joffs table after visiting Sansa. From the distant shot you can see/hear her drop it in the wine jug. It was great slight of hand and easily missed.

    Turn the sound up and you’ll hear it.

  119. T
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    Unless I missed it, how is the show going to reveal (or strongly hint at) who ordered the assassin to kill Bran? Wasn’t that revealed during the wedding in the book?

  120. Sean C.
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    king tyrion:
    We missed a very important line from the books “I am no stranger to Valerian Steel! “ are the show runners never going to touch on that mystery? Or maybe a certain character will reveal it later when explainingtheir master plan?

    That reveal is one of the weakest plot resolutions in the book. I suspect it was decided there was no point in bringing it up at this point, since that mystery has become irrelevant at this point and unlike another mystery has no future ramifications.

  121. freoduwebbe
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    Black_Goat: – Some strangely pointless interactions at the wedding. Cersei and Pycelle in particular comes to mind.

    Pycelle ‘might’ have been able to help Joffrey. It works on the ‘maybe it was mama’ theory.

  122. Petter Kristian Vikestad
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    unclesmog,

    Nice catch. Love how it is so subtle that almost no unsullied have gotten it.

  123. Turncloak
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:56 am | Permalink

    I would prefer that we don’t get an extensive summary in the recap/review as we all just watched the show. Would prefer that you elaborate on what you liked and didn’t like a little more instead. I know the reviews have always been done that way but still …

  124. UKStark
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    I actually stayed up til 3am to watch this episode and it did not disappoint!

    Things i liked -

    *Ramsey Snow – We did not get much of GoT newest villain last season, but i am loving what they are doing with the character. His sneers and smiles are creepy as shit. The hunt was pretty vicious and i loved his daddy issues. Theon as well is now nicely reek – my biggest problem last year was how easily he forgot his name

    *Bran – I am finding Brans arc a little more interesting than i did in the book, but also worried at how fast it is moving. The visions were awesome and need a second watch to fully digest.

    *Shae – Honestly i like what they have done, they are fleshing out a character nicely so that when she betrays him i will be cheering on Tyrion. She may have ‘loved’ Tyrion but she really loved the lifestyle and the money. She will be coming to court to betray him and i imagine we will be seeing a scene or two with Tywin as well. She is attracted to power and money and i hope to see more of that. Bronn i don’t want to betray Tyrion but i think that even if he does sell him out it will keep in character, also may keep him around with Jamie when he goes to Riverrun as Jerome is a fan favourite.

    *The Wedding – the purple wedding was fantastic, SOOOOO much going on it was beautiful. So many small touches i need to watch again. a little look here, a nod there. Was like a murder mystery in GOT and it worked so well. I was almost a little disappointed no Penny but considering her big thing is that he is the reason her brother died, it will be easy enough to say that one of the dwarves was her brother and move swiftly on she will serve no other purpose and to be honest not sure she is going to be a big deal and probably be cut…. i am fine with this.

    *Dragonstone – was not sure about this scene. Loved the Axel shout out. Suppose it shows the way Stannis mind is working at the moment as he spirals down in depression and anger while his red queen is allowed to make every decision. I thought that he let her talk to his daughter spoke volumes.

    OH AND this dragongate nonsense on here really? are we arguing about dragons eating habits?

    Oh well here i go…. so they said the dragons would not eat meat before it was cooked in earlier seasons yes i know…. HOWEVER when we are babes we need are meat cut up or processed when much younger…. SO….. why would it be un believable that a young dragon must start on cooked meat to build up their system/strength etc and even just to LEARN how to eat before they can go about eating raw meat or even as people have suggested charring it while they eat…. CANNOT believe i just involved myself in that

    Right I’m out

  125. Roger König
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    Nick Legit:
    berkelberkel,

    it was a mistake, everyone ive asked is trying to rationalize it and they sound stupid. lol if they can cook the food inside their bodies they wouldnt feel the need to state that if dragons eat raw meat their bodies would reject it. so you’re saying when a dragon consumes food it is never raw? please tell me how that makes sense. and no! not trolling just kind of annoyed that they missed something so little after they spend only god knows how much money on the special effects of the dragons… -_-.

    Remember that Dany says that all she knows about dragons comes from viserys? and he is like jon snow.. he knows nothing!

  126. freoduwebbe
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    Zack: Another thing I loved about the episode was that the girl in the opening being chased was one of Theon’s tormentors last year. I thought that was a super creepy way to illuminate the way Ramsey values even his allies. Much more of a ‘Jesus, that’s messed up’ moment than if it had been some random peasant girl we’d never met before

    Thanks. I thought that too and no one else seemed to mention it. Made the ‘Miranda is jealous’ comment mean oh so much more… now wonder when Miranda becomes the hunted instead of the hunter.

  127. David The Grey
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:12 am | Permalink

    Sansa Bird: Kerry Ingram’s acting as Shireen was lovely!
    And once again, Sansa being my favorite character, I must say, applause to Sophie Turner for this episode. She never gets very many lines yet she manages to translate Sansa effortlessly onscreen. The looks she gives Joffrey at the breakfast when he mentions killing Ned and then her cold, 100 yard stare during the reenactment of the War of the Five Kings? Absolutely gorgeous. This is her season, hands down

    Quite a difference between warm Shireen (in her scenes with Davos last season) and cold Shireen (with Melisandre). I agree Kerry is doing a great job!

    And yeah, Sophie is awesome. I really started feeling her bonding with Tyrion in this episode.

    I really enjoyed the director’s episodes in Season 3 for their close ups of the actors and being able to see the emotions in the faces. I feel he continues that with this episode as well. Lots of great character interaction and expressive acting.

  128. Hodor Targaryen
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    I hate shameless plugs…but you know, here I go…

    http://commonsensegotreviews.tumblr.com/post/82681016829/game-of-thrones-review-episode-4-2-the-lion-and-the

    It is a review, not a recap, of the episode. I’m a bookreader, but I don’t spoil things that will come up later, even though I sometimes compare moments on the show to corresponding moments in the books.

  129. Nathanyel
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    Didn’t know Wilko Johnson was ill, hope he gets better even if he doesn’t appear on GoT anymore.

  130. David The Grey
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    Nick Legit: last season in the tent she fed her dragons raw meat and then this season in the first episode they were eating a raw sheep

    So many images to cram in my brain means that some don’t stick very well. Were the dragons eating the sheep or just playing with it (similar to how cats will play with things they catch and sometimes not even eat it)? I remember the dragons fighting over the sheep and Dany getting snapped at, but did they show the dragons eating it?

  131. TNR
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    hi! I read the books a few years ago, but after seeing last nights episode I have a lot of new questions!

    - why did the Queen of Thorns had to smuggle the amethyst in through the necklace/hairnet? Couldn’t she have just brought it herself?
    - was Margaery in on this?
    - wouldn’t it have been better for her to wait until she was pregnant with him, because killing Joff on his wedding is only going to cause more confusion about who is the actual queen? (Cersei could certainly seize this moment to take back some power…)

    i would love to hear other people’s opinion on this :-)

  132. AmazingIJ
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    Tomas Hedwyn Savage,

    Very simple really. Cersei will put out the order for Tyrion’s death, a dead dwarf will be brought in with his crying sister, Penny will get on a boat for some reason or other, and problem solved, more or less.

  133. jentario
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    Random thought (and I still haven’t seen the episode): they renamed Robert Arryn into Robin Arryn to avoid confusion between him and Robert. Will they rename Jon Connington into… Ron Connington?

    “Ronald Weasly, it’s leviosahhhhhhhh”

  134. Ser Dontos
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    Isaac won my heart with the sad look on his face when Meera warned him about the danger of warging.
    Hope this will be ecplorered more in the future episodes.

  135. Corlando
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    Did anyone realise the name of the girl that was being chased, because I’m pretty sure it’s a small book reference. Her name is Tansy =).

  136. zod
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    TNR,

    1. So that Sansa and Tyrion would look guilty, and nobody would suspect the Tyrells.

    2. In the TV show, definitely.

    3. Doing it a the wedding feast provides them hundreds of witnesses that could swear that the Tyrells have nothing to do with the poisoning of Joffrey.

    Plus, they know that the Lannister need the Tyrell support, so it’s pretty much a given that they’ll wed the next heir (Tommen) to Margaery. Sure, it was a risk.. but a calculated one.

  137. Shmofo
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    TNR: look

    TNR,

    1) This is never clearly explained, IMO, and it really doesn’t sound logical. Maybe, the original plan was to somehow frame Sansa (however they planned it), but then they adapted to new circumstances when all this mess with Tyrion started (at that point Tyrion “framed himself”)
    2. Not sure. I always thought she did, but I am not sure if the book knowledge agrees with it.
    3. Getting pregnant by a monster or trying getting pregnant by a monster doesn’t sound like a good plan to me. A good plan is remove the monster and get pregnant with his normal brother.

  138. Igor Veloso
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Loved the mix of tension and subtle funny scenes like the one with Oberyn saying “Hello”, Tyrion “Hello”, Oberyn “…not you” walks to female acrobat lol

  139. Ser Tahu
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    Overall it was an absolutely brilliant episode.

    The situation with Locke is sounding very interesting. In fact, th1e whole Bolton storyline this year is shaping up to be an interesting one.

    Speaking of the Boltons, however, my one major problem with the episode is that they have officially lost the opportunity to have a scene between Roose and Tywin. D&D normally love putting characters together who never meet in the books, and a scene between those two would have been absolutely epic. It was a golden opportunity that they have let slip through their fingers. Oh well, a man can dream…

  140. Harry
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    GOOD no Red Priest was around to revive Joffrey instantly :)

  141. Nick Larter
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    Corlando:
    Did anyone realise the name of the girl that was being chased, because I’m pretty sure it’s a small book reference. Her name is Tansy =).

    Absolutely – it’s GRRM’s dig back at the showrunners for cutting Hoster Tully’s deathbed scenes.

  142. Nick Larter
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:48 am | Permalink

    The showrunners have been quoted as saying there are combat scenes not taken from the books this season. I now look forward to watching Meera Reed and Summer taking out Locke’s posse in a later episode :D

  143. Rygar
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    So I guess we can rule out the theory that Mel is dead because she never eats.

  144. Walder Wight
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    Did anyone else spot Moat Cailin in the opening credits?

  145. Tatters
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    Am i first to notice Tywin asking about Shae during the breakfast?
    He wants Cersei to bring her to the hands tower before the wedding.

  146. TNR
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    @ Zod

    Thanks, that clarifies a bit. Never realized that the Lannisters were actually very depending on the Tyrells

    @ Shmofo

    Also true. I am glad Joffy is dead anyway, although I don’t like the consequences it has on Tyrion. He used to be my favorite character but now (almost finished a Dance with Dragons-1) he has become such a bitter little man. I hope G.R.R. Martin has something good for his future in store

  147. John-Michael Lelievre
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    Rest in Pieces Joffers, you fantastic little shit. :D

  148. John-Michael Lelievre
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    TNR,

    If you had been through all that he has, I bet you’d be a little bitter too. :)

  149. Tom
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    thoughts:

    I loved Selyse, i thought she was believable and seeing her role revved up was a nice forecast of her role to come.

    Ned Stark! Just a flashback, but really cool to see the Starks revisited in Bran’s visions. I hope we see more.

    I was uncertain about Roose and Ramsay. Their interactions felt uncomfortable. I’m glad there’s a reason to send Locke to the wall, though.

    I really liked Callum Wharry, it’s hard to see this older actor in the role. Sets a completely different family dynamic, maybe too even. I hope he gets scared.

    There’s so much exposition. I hope that they dont miss out on great scene moments to fill us up with information, as much as I love referenced to the books.

    Its so funny to see Cercie hinting around at a fling with Qyburn. She’s so horny.

    Loved the cup fumbling. Could have been anyone

    The image I was hoping to see was the dogs wandering after Joffrey’s death. It also would have been nice to see Kevan and Lancel, instead of so many random guests.

    And finally, I am so happy for Sansa, can’t wait to see what’s next for her Sunday!

  150. Chriss
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    Anyone else surprised that they didn’t reveal Joffrey was the one who tried to kill Bran?

    So after a while, like, The Red Wedding was amazing and way better than the book, but actually, I think the book pulled The Purple Wedding off better.

  151. Jen@House Stark
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    Did that wine taste like ashes in your mouth, Joffrey? Now you know the debt has been paid. For the King in the North you little bastage :smile:

  152. Biter the Gallant
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Hexonx,

    Actually, the Lord Florent, who is getting burnt in the book, Alester Florent (Axell’s brother) was the maternal grandfather of Samwell Tarly. So, it is not impossible, that when Samwell will hear about his death (if he does at all), it will make tension between him and Stannis. In the novel, naturally. I think GRRM probably wanted to make at least a bit of the Dragonstone backstory to survive (many things were cut previously). This scene is actually a mixture of the execution of the pious Faith-believer Lord Guncer Sunglass, who didn’t want to support Stannis after the destruction of Dragonstone’s Sept, and was sacrificed by Melisandre; and the execution of Alester Florent, whom Stannis considered a traitor for his peace negotiations. The victim is named Axell probably to save at least the name of the later’s brother, who also seems to be cut from the adaptation.

  153. Turncloak
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Chriss,

    Yes I found that odd. I hope we get the reveal during Lysa Arryn’s confession. Surprised we didn’t get “I’m no stranger to Valyrian steel”

  154. queenofthorns
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    TNR,

    All good questions and there’s definitely no 100% answer on any of them

    1. Well, it keeps her hands cleaner because it came from Sansa’s necklace. If Sansa had actually been caught (which was the Tyrells intent, IMO), the missing jewel (after the others are tested and found to be poison) would be nearly irrefutable proof that she was one of the murderers. Also in case someone suspected QoT she would have no trace of poison on her person.

    2. Personally I think both book and show Margaery knew exactly what was going on (some book readers disagree), but that she never touched the poison herself, other than to put the cup near enough to QoT that she could put the poison in. Also there is a competing theory that the poison was put into the pie and Margaery fed it to him intentionally. I think that either is possible as QoT was close enough to put the poison jewel into either item.

    3. This probably was the original plan, but it became apparent that Margaery’s life could be in real danger if she actually were to bed Joffery. Therefore they don’t really have a choice other than to switch over to Tommen.

  155. Lady Sparrow
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    V proud of my unsullied boyfriend for figuring out the perpetrator from a camera angle! He needed me to go back and show him the how, but I’m still pretty impressed.

  156. Kevin
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    I liked Ser Dontos as the Terminator, “come with me if you want to live”

  157. Veltigar
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    Nice episode.

    What I liked:

    1) Thé moment of purple happiness

    2) Bran’s visions. I’m not a Bran fan (not in the show and not in the books) but this really got me excited for the rest of his storyline! Bring us the ToJ!!

    3) Jaime and Bronn. It feels good to be right

    What I didn’t like:

    1) Sigur Ros. Their version of Rains was great, but I was really hoping for one of the other songs from the book.

    2) Theon, Ramsey and the shave

    3) Show Stannis still doesn’t feel like book Stannis. When will he get the I-don’t-believe-in-any-God-speech?

    So he’s a bit of a fixer-upper,
    but this we’re certain of
    You can fix this fixer-upper
    Up with a little bit of casting Mads Mikkelsen as Euron!

  158. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:43 am | Permalink
  159. Veltigar
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    JamesL:
    The only thing I don’t like about this Shae plot change is that it looks like they are now also having Bronn betray Tyrion.Bronn lets Tyrion down in the books by not fighting for him but that is not betraying him, they were still friends.I’m hoping that Tywin or Cersei found a way to get Shae after she left without Bronn knowing.Hopefully Bronn had nothing to do with it and really thinks she is in Pentos.

    I think they’ll find a way around it. But I agree with you that, if they don’t, it will severly tarnish the character and story.

    All Trolls: He’s just a bit of a fixer-upper,
    He’s got a couple of bugs
    His isolation is confirmation
    Of casting Mads Mikkelsen as Euron

  160. Maxwell James
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    T,
    Chriss,

    I was surprised at that as well, especially since Martin wrote the episode. It would have taken only one extra line from Tyrion to make the reveal.

  161. Veltigar
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    Valyrian Plastic:
    http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/04/13/jack-gleeson-joffrey-death/

    Eeeeeee! Spoilers! :D

    Hahaha, Weiss really shoots himself in the foot here… Now, people will surely start asking again whether or not he read the books XD

    I’ll quote from the EW article:

    Weiss: “One of the great things George did, is he does give you a triumphant f–k-you death — but that’s Robb Stark’s death. Walder Frey has that great one liner before he puts the knife in his heart. It’s got all the elements of a triumphant death, but it’s completely flipped ,and it’s the wrong side and happening to somebody you love.”

    [Or perhaps the interviewer was an idiot because Walder did not stab Robb]

    So he’s a bit of a fixer-upper,
    But we know what to do
    The way to fix up this fixer-upper
    Is to cast Mads Mikkelsen as Euron instead of you!

  162. TNR
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    @ queenofthorns,
    interesting perspective.

    Reading the books, I also thought it might have been the pie that wat poisened, but the show just made it seem too obvious. Too many close ups of Margaery and her feeding him the pie… must have been the QOT (although I guess Margaery did knew about it).
    The Tyrells are just awful people trying to blame Sansa!

  163. Victor
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    Fluff’s Travels,

    He had an awfully masculine voice for someone named “Penny”.

  164. The Purist
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Okay, I give a lot of flack to David Benioff and D. B. Weiss turning this show in a mess after season 1, but their writing were amazing for this episode. I take it back, D&D are brilliant and rightful the showrunners for the show.

    Edit: oh wait, it’s actually GRRM who wrote this episode. I take it back again, both Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum are still hacks. Come get me, GoT fanboys!

  165. Jeb
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    The Purist,

    Obvious troll is obvious

    I commed you for your wit on this ocassion. Bravo

  166. ebb5
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    Penny Targaryan: It’s hard to say. It could be just Bloodraven showcasing Bran all the magical elements in the world, white walkers, dragons, wights…
    I don’t really think that the dragon is referring to Dany’s dragons or other dragon specifically.
    But the least we can say is that this scene’s canon cause it’s written by GRRM himself.

    I don’t specifically remember that from the books, but I think that Bran’s visions are going to end up being a crucial part of the show because they are the perfect way to fill in the details on the mythology and back story. In the books there are lots of opportunities to explain things that happened in the past, but on the show it is much more difficult to do that.

    In the future if we are ever going to learn more about Robert’s rebellion and all of the associated events in the show then Bran’s visions will probably be how it is done. They can be visual and ambiguous as opposed to just having characters talk about past events. I suspect that last night was the first of many visions to come that will be expanded in the show.

    It is really the perfect plot exposition device for television.

  167. pntrlqst
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    D&D have apparently told Alex Graves how the series will end, and he’s told some of the actors.

    A lot of that comes down to sitting down with Dave and Dan and saying, “What happens in season 6? Because I don’t know what I’m doing.” And they’ll tell you what you’re doing. I’ve had many moments with the actors where I’ve taken them aside and told them, “This is what happens next season” or even at the end of the whole series. And they’ll go, “Oh, thank God you told me that. Now I know how to play it.”

    http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/game-of-thrones-director-alex-graves-on-filming-joffreys-wedding#9zte4I1woT6RW7w5.99

  168. Tatters
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    The Purist,

    Yes, we all submit to your wit and wisdom, how we bow!

  169. Chriss
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    pntrlqst,

    Hopefully they don’t run their mouths too much. Imagine being spoiled by Unsullied? Haha. The ultimate vengeance.

  170. Chriss
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    Victor:
    Fluff’s Travels,

    He had an awfully masculine voice for someone named “Penny”.

    Agreed. It is interesting though that even after the wolf’s head was knocked off, that actor was still masked.

  171. Vin Sidious
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    Having Sansa smuggle in the posion makes for a pretty weak plan on the murders’ parts. Notice that Dontos never even specified to Sansa that she should wear them to the wedding, only that she should wear them in general. What if she had decided not to wear them that day? Maybe she had some nicer jewels to match her dress for the wedding? It makes no sense that the conspirators would have left that so out of their control. And in the very recent E.W. interview, GRRM himself basically says he thinks the killers were trying to make it look like an accident; they were not intending to frame Tyrion or anyone else, it just sort of happened that way because Cersei was so quick on the accusatory trigger. I really enjoyed the episode, but the logistics of this murder plot don’t really hold up to scrutiny.

  172. Chriss
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    Vin Sidious:
    Having Sansa smuggle in the posion makes for a pretty weak plan on the murders’ parts.Notice that Dontos never even specified to Sansa that she should wear them to the wedding, only that she should wear them in general. What if she had decided not to wear them that day?Maybe she had some nicer jewels to match her dress for the wedding?It makes no sense that the conspirators would have left that so out of their control.And in the very recent E.W. interview, GRRM himself basically says he thinks the killers were trying to make it look like an accident; they were not intending to frame Tyrion or anyone else, it just sort of happened that way because Cersei was so quick on the accusatory trigger.I really enjoyed the episode, but the logistics of this murder plot don’t really hold up to scrutiny.

    Well you assume they didn’t have a back up plan.

  173. Randall Williamson
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Hexonx,

    I suspect the boat in the harbor set to sail to Pentos that Bronn put Shae on is really….

    Littlefinger’s boat waiting on Sansa’s arrival and Shae fell right into his hands.

  174. Ser Endrew Tarth
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    As for raw-meat-gate or whatever… I rationalize it as the dragons were playing with, or fighting over the kill before actually eating it, and do cook it off-screen. Sure it would have been cool to show that, but logistically may have been more than they wanted to get into in that one shot. Interesting the sheep may be to set up the unfortunate little girl with charred bones so seeing the dragons burn the kill would’ve been cool. It was my understanding from the books that they could not eat raw meat, and cooking it in their throat or stomachs is a dumb rationalization.

    Substituting Bronn for Payne is kind of an insult to our intelligence considering the loyalties of sellswords, and the size of the purse Jaime offered… It’s further complicated if Bronn has betrayed Tyrion by handing over Shae. Here’s hoping Bronn is really a stand in for Marbrand whom Jaime tests his skill against in the book, then goes to Payne to prevent others from finding just how bad he is.

    As for Penny, easy to be an off-screen sibling of one of those guys, or as someone pointed out above simply a victim of dwarf hunting. For whatever reason I hope she is not cut, I like her.

  175. Varamyr Fourskins
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    That was probably my favorite episode since Blackwater.

    Glad they got a Ramsay hunt scene in — in order to show the newbies who we’re dealing with here — i.e. someone 1,000x worse than Joffrey. Although, not sure why “Myranda” was accompanying him. I suppose it softened his role a bit. Perhaps it would’ve been too hardcore if he and his buddies had been chasing the two women? It was already hard enough to watch with her taking some of the focus off of him. So it probably wouldn’t have passed the screen tests if they’d done it like it’s described in the books. Because it’s even worse in the books… much worse.

    Also, really liked Bran’s scene. I think the show is making the danger of what he’s doing much more obvious. Whereas in the books, many readers are under the impression warging is a good thing, rather than an inhuman, unnatural thing. But Jojen makes it explicitly clear that Bran is playing with fire (pun intended). Similarly, in the last episode, it’s been proven there really are cannibals Beyond the Wall, and people have been debating that over on the boards at Westeros for years now — in regards to Rickon’s story. So it was a pretty major development to hear Jojen tell Bran that he’ll lose his humanity if he keeps warging, IMO.

    And, of course, I’m sure Deathface Joffrey will be making the rounds on the internet today. I had a feeling they’d make that scene especially gory, and they definitely did. Jack Gleeson couldn’t have been any more perfect in that role. From the faces he made, to the way he spoke, to the way he carried himself — he nailed it. Now lets just hope he can walk down the street without people throwing pig shit at him.

  176. TNR
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    Vin Sidious ,

    completely agree with you. It doesn’t make sense that they would be so careless. The Tyrells didn’t know about the fight that Joffrey and Tyrion were having either: that just kind of occurred because Joffrey was in a bad mood.

  177. Ashley
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    So what was this from brans vision sorry if this has been answered I haven’t had time to read all the comments yet.

    http://imgur.com/kHmBb0H

  178. Tori Targaryen
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    Ashley,

    I saw this as ‘the heart of winter’

  179. Tony
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    Great episode! Will miss Jack / Joffrey for sure but it had to happen…

    freoduwebbe: Thanks. I thought that too and no one else seemed to mention it. Made the ‘Miranda is jealous’ comment mean oh so much more… now wonder when Miranda becomes the hunted instead of the hunter.

    What are you talking about? The girl doesn’t even look remotely alike.
    Last season’s girl was named ‘Violet’ and this girl was named ‘Tansy’. It might have well been the original plan actually but the actress playing Violet is / was pregnant i think.

  180. King DBC
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    How great was the music in The Sept??

  181. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    I love those evil, subtle transitions involving sausage between scenes in this series, especially those involving Ramsay. In this episode, after the brutality by Ramsay’s bitches, there was a transition to a serving of breakfast sausage. We had a few awkward chuckles. Was the S3 Ramsay sausage transition in GRRM’s episode as well?

    All hail King Tommen and his kittens!

  182. Tori Targaryen
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    Concerning the doubts about who really was involved with the poisoning, not only is there evidence in the visuals, but I think the episode title is fitting also

  183. Tatters
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    Wiener wiener, floppy wieners in my face!

  184. NP
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    UnbowedUnbentUnhodor,

    It took me a couple watches to catch this as well. Tywin says “bring her to the tower of the hand before the wedding.” If not that exact quote, then very close.

  185. NP
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    NP,

    Nick Legit,

    Ever had a rare steak? There’s a difference between rare and raw. The dragons presumably torched the sheep’s exterior off camera. I doubt they would have the patience to string up the sheep on a spit and slow cook it all the way through for hours. Next topic.

  186. Vin Sidious
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    Anybody else surprised that neither Jaime nor Tywin have sent a raven to Roose Bolton “requesting” Locke’s presence at King’s Landing? Or at least, pieces of Locke? I imagine Roose would turn him over quite readily. Would love to see Jaime get the chance to come face to face with Locke with the tables decidedly turned.

  187. Michael
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    It will be interesting to see how this whole Tyrion/Shae/Bronn business works out, in the books it’s clear that Shae betrays Tyrion, not like she has any choice if she wants to live, Bronn also betrays him by accepting the marriage and lands and not coming to his “friends” aid. Shae’s betrayal is worse because it leads to both public humilation of Tyrion and an extra nail at his trial, he might have forgiven her if she hadn’t slept with his father, though in truth, what is she really going to do in this world.

    Here, Shae has been pushing for Tyrion to leave, she seems to more genuinely care for him than in the books where she always seems to be playing him. This episode gives more fuel to Shae betraying Tyrion out of anger and spite, and not out of survival which was more believable, personally. But what about Bronn? He’s more of a prostitute than Shae, it’s quite possibly he’s been bought off by Tywin or Cersei already. But based off of Bronn taking over for Ilyn Payne, I would think TV Bronn would not be bought off at this point (I’m hoping we get the adventures of Jaime and Bronn in the Riverlands in Season 5). So the likely culprit is Varys at the direction of Tywin or Cersei. He’s already told Tyrion he will not lie to Tywin and Bronn feels that he might have been followed.

    Now, when Tyrion kills Shae, after all of this, how will the viewers respond? In the books it’s her lack of remorse and her attempts at just continuing to play her game that enrages Tyrion, with all this anger built up in Shae, how will that final scene play out now?

  188. Clob
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    I was just checking out the network ratings for last night on tvbythenumbers. Practically everything was down quite a bit. People must have been watching something else…

  189. decgem
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    Nick Legit,

    I can’t remember the scene with Dany feeding them in season 3, so if they really showed raw meat going down the dragons’ throats, I would agree with you that that would be an inconsistency. (I think it’s possible for mature dragons–show!dragons anyway–to cook food “internally,” but I agree with you that that would defeat the purpose of repeatedly pointing out how they don’t eat raw food and unnecessarily open the show up to the question you pose.)

    Last week’s episode, though–and I may be wrong–really just showed the dragons throwing their food around and fighting over it, not actually eating it. So I wouldn’t count that as a mistake, as they could easily have charred it before actually eating.

  190. Ashley
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    Tori Targaryen,

    What do you mean like thats the base of white walkers because there was a figure that resembled one. Or do you mean some place deep beyond the wall we haven’t seen yet?

  191. Hodoreo
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    This episode was amazing. Some points I noted:
    Looks like we’ll see the Bolton hunting parties looking for Bran and Rickon at some point, as this was referenced in the books. Wasn’t Osha confirmed as having filmed for S4? That probably confirms Rickon too. Ramsay also feels threatened by Jon Snow (who isn’t even the LC at this point), I think that may be some padding for the pink letter. Locke will probably try and infiltrate the watch and kill Jon. Maybe he might, along with Bowen and some others.

    The Bran scenes were amazing. His short scenes in this episode were better than all of his in season 3. It’s interesting how GRRM wrote the vision scenes. What is the significance of the white walker behind cracked ice? Dany’s vision of the throne room in the house of the undying when it is deserted and frozen over I think is foreshadowing King’s Landing’s destruction, especially with the dragon shadow as well. There also seemed to be a raven flying through the crypts of Winterfell. Is that hinting about Jon Snow?

    The writing definitely made it seem ambiguous about the poisoning. If you rewatch closely, it looks like Sansa drops something into the cup after Joffrey kicks it away. Similarly, after Olenna finishes speaking to Sansa, a panned shot shows Olenna dropping something into the cup, and a distinct clinking noise.

    The Dragonstone scenes were neat, it was quite comical seeing Selyse’s utter bumbling piety for the Lord of light. ”DID YOU SEE?”
    Even if they mixed up the book’s storyline and burned Axell Florent as an ‘infidel’ who refused to burn his seven idols instead of offering to sue for peace with the Lannister’s and offer Shireen as a bride behind Stannis’ back, it doesn’t matter. Didn’t Stannis burn Lord Guncer Sunglass for refusing to accept the Lord of Light?
    I also like the way Shireen is very skeptical of Melisandre and sort of sees through her, much more than her father is capable of doing.

    I’m not happy that GRRM didn’t write Joffrey saying he was no stranger to Valyrian steel. I hope Tyrion still says to Jaime that he knows Joffrey tried to have Bran killed.

    The jousting scene may present certain problems for Tyrions ADWD storyline. The absence of Penny may not be that big of a deal and I really would not care too much about it, but even the dwarf who represented Robb was clearly a male because you can hear him shouting ”the king in the north!”. It was also quite awkward seeing the Tyrell’s appalled reaction to the Renly/Loras innuendo going on, as well as a reference to Robb’s beheading which was quite upsetting. Also wonder when they are going to reveal that Balon Greyjoy is dead, as it clearly has not happened yet.

    A note to Brienne/Jaime shippers: it’s official. Brienne loves Jaime. This was clearly implied in AFFC but seeing as how GRRM wrote this episode, it’s safe to say she does. When Loras retorts that Jaime will never get to marry Cersei either, Brienne conveniently walks into the frame. Coincidence? I think not.

    I also noted Podrick looking back at the female acrobat that Oberyn and Ellaria were checking out. Funny callback to the tripod scenes of season 3. Pycelle made quite a funny comment about Qyburn being a ‘deplorable man’. Also Oberyn calling out Tywin on Elia’s murder and rape was pretty badass. He also mentioned Myrcella in Dorne and Cersei and Tywin mentioned Doran again. I think this is definitely setting up the Martell AFFC/ADWD arc.

    Also, dem Reek feels when he finds out Robb is dead. ”And Robb.. butchered by the Freys. Where was I? I should have died with him.” : ( This scene made me so sad. Theon had the razor to Ramsay’s throat and you could tell he was debating on whether to kill him or not.

    Jack Gleeson was amazing as Joffey, despicable in this episode that brought justice to its book counterpart. Joffrey’s choking face and the special effects were quite gruesome.
    GOT needs to keep this pace up if it can.

  192. Tori Targaryen
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    Ashley,

    I meant in a symbolic sense. I don’t take any of those visuals as meaning something physical, it’s metaphorical. When I say the heart of winter, I mean death, ice, winter… 3EC?….

  193. Hodoreo
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    Mods I highly advise you to spoiler text my above text, for some reason it wont let me edit it a minute after it was posted.

  194. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    Kraken’s Daughter,

    It’s the first time Melissandre has mentioned the dark god.

    Actually, she has mentioned the “dark god” at least once, maybe twice. I can’t recall which episode but I’m 100% certain that she has.

  195. Max
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    I think it was kind of stupid not to give the newly-recast Tommen any dialogue this episode. Show fans who remember the old Tommen will not have realised who this guy was supposed to be, and show fans who don’t even remember the old one will be in for a surprise when they learn that Joffrey actually had a brother this whole time next episode (oh and by the way, that character you didn’t remember existed is now the most powerful person in Westeros).

    Also, while on the topic of the Lannisters… Is anyone else getting a little annoyed by the complete omission of Kevan since the first season and Lancel since the second?

  196. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    Nick Legit,

    I noticed it too. The show gives the impression early on that they will only eat, can only eat burnt meat but then when she meets the Yunkai emissary, they are taking raw meat. I think it was a practical, purposeful decision. Maybe they didn’t have the budget to do the flame? Or more likely they didn’t want to do flame in a tent (budget notwithstanding), in an enclosed space because it would be totally fake for someone or something NOT to catch fire. When they were small they could shoot very small, targeted flame. Now that they’re bigger, their flames would be too. It’s not like Dany has her pillows, cushions, clothes, tent made out of fire retardant cloth! But at the same time they needed the dragons there to intimidate the emissary. So the compromise was have them there, give them meat to get them into a frenzy and scare the emissary but leave out the flame.

    So it’s either that logical explanation OR they simply effed up. And knowing how much attention to detail they give to things, I don’t think they would or could eff up that big.

  197. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    adense,

    Good catch!!! I noted the throne room scene that was the same as Dany’s. I’m beginning to wonder if that throne room scene is not just a metaphorical prediction that winter is coming to Westeros but that the throne and Red Keep (representing the power structure in Westeros) will literally be destroyed.

  198. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    Max:
    I think it was kind of stupid not to give the newly-recast Tommen any dialogue this episode. Show fans who remember the old Tommen will not have realised who this guy was supposed to be, and show fans who don’t even remember the old one will be in for a surprise when they learn that Joffrey actually had a brother this whole time next episode (oh and by the way, that character you didn’t remember existed is now the most powerful person in Westeros).

    Also, while on the topic of the Lannisters… Is anyone else getting a little annoyed by the complete omission of Kevan since the first season and Lancel since the second?

    I agree about Tommen and that’s the only thing I disliked about the episode.

    I’m not seeing the importance of reintroducing Kevan right now though. It’s odd that people keep bringing it up. In the books he doesn’t arrive at KL until Tywin’s funeral IIRC. The show doesn’t need to bring him back this season. They can use a couple of lines of exposition to refresh the audience’s memory during the season 5 premiere.

  199. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    Max: Also, while on the topic of the Lannisters… Is anyone else getting a little annoyed by the complete omission of Kevan since the first season and Lancel since the second?

    Kevan was briefly on Tywin’s council at Harrenhal in 208, but I know what you mean, they really ought to have re-emerged at this point (the wedding is when Kevan unveils the 80-something-looking Lancel after all), but there’s still time I guess. They’ll maybe “do-a-Daario” and recast Ian Gelder as someone who looks nothing like him, then go back and retrospectively change Kevan to “Evan”!?

  200. magnuskn
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    So, anyone want to take a bet how long it will be until we have Myranda being the one who is being chased in a nightgown through the woods by Ramsay and his dogs? Two episodes or more?

  201. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

    zod,

    Nice catch! I didn’t see the missing gem at first so I thought the necklace was a red herring too. However, in the book wasn’t the poisonous necklace used as evidence against Tyrion because it was his wife’s? How can that happen if Sansa flees right away? Also, the necklace must not have been a Donto’s family heirloom if it contained poisonous gems–so who did it come from? I would presume Olenna or someone Olenna is in league with–Littlefinger? Otherwise how would she know to take the gem and put it into Joffrey’s wine?

    I figured that it was Olenna who poisoned Joffrey because 1)she made that quip about how horrible it was to kill a king at a wedding, 2) her family had the most to gain (and she wanted to protect her granddaughter from life with a sadistic husband) and 3) she had the opportunity–the cup was right by her just before Joffrey picked it up (and the missing gem from the necklace pic confirms it).

    I’m just wondering now how soon they will tell us who did it. The previews for next week seem to indicate a convo between Marg and Olenna that might reveal the truth. I can’t wait!!!!!

  202. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:
    adense,
    Good catch!!! I noted the throne room scene that was the same as Dany’s.I’m beginning to wonder if that throne room scene is not just a metaphorical prediction that winter is coming to Westeros but that the throne and Red Keep (representing the power structure in Westeros) will literally be destroyed.

    Truth be told. Imho, “A Dream of Spring” will be a false indicator of hope and will ultimately be a dream by the survivors of the desolation to come. Regardless of fire or ice, Dragon or Wolf or Lion rule, KL and the iron throne will be in ashes before all is done.

  203. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    David The Grey,

    No, they did not show them eating it. Just fighting over it, pack style.

  204. bugsbane
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    Facebook alert: Mya Stone has unfriended Myranda Royce.

  205. fuelpagan
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    TNR,

    The QoT probably thought Margaery was in too much danger of Joffrey. With as manic as Joffrey is, the QoT figured he wouldn’t survive long anyway. Plus once Margaery is not longer officially a virgin, she can’t be betrothed to Tommen.

    This likely was the plan of Littlefinger and the QoT from the start. Having Sansa bring in the poison was to thwart Varys from figuring this out beforehand and trying to stop it. Littlefinger had planned for Sansa’s escape so this was really a way to frame Tyrion.

    Littlefinger sent in the dwarf troop knowing it would incite a conflict between Tyrion and the King thereby showcasing a motive for Tyrion wanting to kill Joffrey. Then have Sansa wear the poison in her hairnet that everyone would think Tyrion had asked her to wear to the wedding. Littlefinger may also have planted the idea in Joffrey of having Tyrion be his cup bearer during the reception as a way to humiliate Tyrion. This provided the means, motive and opportunity to frame Tyrion for killing Joffrey.

    The QoT may have wanted this to appear as an accident, but Littlefinger was planning on framing Tyrion all along. That’s why Sansa had to bring in the poison and not the QoT.

  206. Bard
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    Varamyr Fourskins,

    So far you’re the only person on the thread who’s mentioned Myranda and her use in the show. It seems like she’s on her way to becoming a recurring character in Ramsay’s orbit, which leads me believe that she could potentially be a candidate for getting used as the fake “Arya Stark” when the time comes, assuming the showrunners use that story line at all.

    I think they’re going to have to use an existing minor character for this, given that Jeyne Poole was never introduced as a character in the show at any point.

    It won’t matter so much that she’s known at the Dreadfort — all that’s really required to make it work (as in the books) is for Theon to keep his mouth shut, since he’s the only one who knew what Arya looked like in reality.

  207. David The Grey
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ: No, they did not show them eating it. Just fighting over it, pack style.

    Thanks for helping my failing memory. I definitely wasn’t focused on that part of the scene (more interested in Drogon showing some dominance traits), but thought I’d offer it up to the OP.

  208. David The Grey
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan: This likely was the plan of Littlefinger and the QoT from the start.

    Help me out, it has been too long since I read the books (and, even having read them, I did not pick up on many of the clues). Is it mentioned/hinted at in the books that Littlefinger was involved with the PW?

  209. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    David The Grey,

    Is it mentioned/hinted at in the books that Littlefinger was involved with the PW?

    Well, since Dontos helped lure Sansa to Littlefinger’s boat and he was the one that gave her the poisonous necklace, the book implies that Littlefinger was behind it all. It is definitely his style. However, the show (different than the books) seems to be implying (since the QOT put the poisonous gem in Joffrey’s cup) that Littlefinger and QOT were conspiring together.

  210. fuelpagan
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    Vin Sidious,

    I thought the line Donto’s told Sansa about something from his family shining one more time before it fades out, made it clear she was to wear the necklace to the wedding and not just in general. Littlefinger knows she is a sentimental person and would wear the necklace to the wedding. Anyhow, the writing in the previous episode should have made this clearer as the books make if very clear, Sansa is to wear Donto’s gift to the wedding.

    You’re not considering all the levels the game is being played on. The QoT may have hoped this would appear as an accident. But the game Littlefinger is playing, he most certainly wanted Tyrion framed for the murder. In AFfC he talks about Joffrey not wanting to have dwarfs performing at his wedding and Littlefinger had to point out Tyrion would hate it even more. Littlefinger knew the dwarf show would bring Joffrey and Tyrion into conflict. The only part I’m not sure of is having Tyrion being Joffrey’s cup bearer. Littlefinger may have planted this idea in Joffrey, or it could have been just great luck. I suspect Littlefinger wouldn’t have left that to chance.

    It only looks like a weak plan because you’re thinking about the wrong level. Sansa wearing the poison wasn’t ever the QoT idea.

  211. thecookiequeen
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    Put on ur closed captioning and you’ll see what is being said. It makes watching the series most enjoyable.

  212. fuelpagan
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

    David The Grey,

    Donto’s was employed by Littlefinger as Donto’s was the one who delivered Sansa to Littlefinger. Donto’s was the one who supplied the poison to Sansa. Littlefinger tells Sansa in AFfC that Joffrey didn’t like the idea of the dwarf performance at his wedding until Littlefinger pointed out how it would upset his uncle. Then Joffrey was excited about the show. Basically the book doesn’t connect the dots (or hasn’t as of yet), but once you think about it, I think it becomes clear how much Littlefinger was involved in the purple wedding.

  213. David The Grey
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ,

    Thanks Mrs. D. I guess the part I missed was where it was stated/implied that the boat Dontos had lined up for Sansa was Littlefinger’s boat.

  214. Randall Williamson
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    Sure makes me wonder what Tywin’s role in all this could be.

    Jaime loses his hand and Tywin’s wheels start turning.
    Jaime is released from the Kings Guard and takes over Casterly Rock.
    Joffrey is replaced by Tommen, giving Tywin years of total control as Regent and time to groom Tommen. After Tommen is king in his own name, Tywin will still have many strings attached.
    Tyrion sent to the wall, removing the two biggest “embarrassments” to the Lannisters (including Joffrey). Freeing Sansa up to marry his once-again heir to Casterly Rock, Jaime.

    I am not saying he planned it, but if he is ANYTHING like the books/shows have implied, he had to have caught wind of it. Notice how he does nothing in any way of aiding Joffrey, he moves over to stand near Tommen.
    Also, it would explain why Olenna and Margaery would be willing to kill Joffrey before consumating if Olenna knew Tommen would be waiting in the wings.

  215. David The Grey
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    And that was the part I was missing! Thanks so much!

  216. fuelpagan
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ,

    Both did conspire to kill Joffrey, Littlefinger just had the additional motive to frame Tyrion where the QoT may have hoped it would just look like an accident. I doubt the QoT was in on the dwarf show, which we know from the books was Littlefinger’s plan with Joffrey to humiliate Tyrion.

  217. AlayneStone
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    If Olenna and LF planned the PW together, does this mean that the Tyrells know or at least suspect that Sansa is alive and with LF now?

  218. Shan
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

    I started to go through the comments and then got lazy. During Brans visions, who is in the reflection in the ice???? Any ideas?

  219. yeekim
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    Great episode… but I’m bummed the loose end “who ordered the hit on Bran” can’t be convincingly tied up any more. Hearing it from any third party won’t be the same. Wtf GRRM?

  220. Shan
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    There are some good screen caps of Bran’s vision here: http://imgur.com/a/AJYUE

    Though the author mistakenly identifies the wight child from the first scene of the pilot episode as Leaf, the child of the forest.

    Looks like the reflection is a white walker to the best of my interpretation.

  221. Shan
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    Bard,

    Do you think she’s a bit too old to pull off being Arya? I know show-Arya is older than book-Arya, but even then I think Maisie looks much younger than Myranda. But I agree that they’ll probably use an existing minor character. I wonder if they’ll send someone from KL though to stick with the idea of the Lannisters having a hand in it.

  222. TheBerylfly
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    People saying the Joff likely ordered the hit on Bran reveal doesn’t matter confuse me. I guess if you are “give me the WW invasion, Dany in Westeros already and STARK REVENGE HUR HUR” type it don’t, but still.
    Granted, the way Tyrion sussed it out in the books was a little weird and felt forced. I hope they use a much more natural seeming scene where Jaime guesses it.

  223. Cielo Snow
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    Lord Stannis’s Soul:
    Another shout-out to Prince Doran Martell in this episode.I think it’s safe to assume that the Dorne scenes will be around next season.

    Loved how he brought down Cersei, from Queen to Lady Cersei and “exQueen Regent”, even if it was just for a little while because now she is again Regent to Tommen the heir (another usurper). What a shame that the Viper won’t last long.

    Pedro Pascal is great IMO.

  224. Vin Sidious
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    Fuelpagan,

    Good point. Whatever QoT THINKS the plan is, LF’s actuall intentions probably run several levels deeper. If nothing else, when not directly advancing a specific part of his own agenda, he seems to like to throw random, unexpected balls in the air and watch the other players try to juggle them. Which of course keeps their eyes off of him…

    Still, I was largely reacting to words from GRRM himself, who said he didn’t think (he who wrote it)that the culprits were expecting anyone to be arrested for murder, but rather that it would be presumed that Joffrey choked to death.

  225. fuelpagan
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    AlayneStone,

    Yes it does. That’s why the QoT was talking to her about visiting HighGarden as she took the poison from her necklace. They probably don’t realize what plans LF has for Sansa and are thinking his interest in rescuing her is based on some connection LF had with Catelyn. Their hope is once she is safe, LF will take Sansa where she wants to go and they are wanting it to be HighGarden.

    I’m not sure if they realize LF kept her, but I’m pretty sure the QoT knew Sansa was leaving that night.

  226. House Baggins
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Does anyone else feel that the “Hodor” that woke Bran was a kind of an echo from when Bran invaded Hodor rather than Hodor actually speaking?

  227. House Nieder
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    Sorry if someone already said this but I found it really great that they had Oberyn discuss his disdain for the murder of women and children. That disproves him as a suspect in the show. Very quick line and scene but it obviously wasn’t him and if non-book readers paid attention they could easily deduce who really did it.

  228. fuelpagan
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Vin Sidious,

    I think GRRM is referring to “culprits” as the ones at the wedding whom actually knowingly poisoned the king. AKA the Tyrell’s. GRRM’s statement was a big help for me in separating what the Tyrell’s plan was from what LF plan was. The Tyrell’s wanted it to appear as an accident, not LF.

    I’m still curious what LF has against Tyrion since he’s now implicated Tyrion twice putting him into dungeons. He may like this card simply to screw with Tywin and Cersei since they both despise Tyrion but must protect the Lannister pride.

  229. Get Kraken
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    Anyone have any idea what was said during Bran’s vision when we see him falling? Right after we hear Cersei say ‘he saw us’…

  230. Strong Belwas
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    Zychotous,

    “Have her taken to the tower of the hand of the king before the wedding”

  231. WildSeed
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

    Get Kraken,

    In ADWD, green seer Bloodraven claims to have visited Bran or his environs long before Bran’s trek northward. Those random events flowed through Bran’s seer abilities when Hodor placed him at the Weirwood tree, on last night’s episode. Words too, flowed with some of those visions, but one was emphasized ” North “.
    This is somewhat consistent with ADWD, although rushed and included only cryptic interpretation. In ADWD, Bran’s thoughts lingered with his father, Ned, as well as a few others for a complete picture. the green- seer was offering Bran,at that time, an opportunity to experience was they both could perform . Viewers have already acknowledged that Bran can Warg and travel as Summer, his Direwolf. Aside from the images and the direction emphasis, I still unsure if that Wight was supposed to be the man from the books, or just a representation of the idea. That child image seemed eerily reminiscent of the season one Wight or White Walker child. I really hope the show doesn’t depict the CotF in this fashion.

    These scenes were good last night, but the show has really underscored how the Stark children are inextricably linked to their Direwolves. We’ll get glimpses here and there, but the intrinsic nature falls short, IMHO.

  232. WildSeed
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    Well said. I have this consideration also. Damn you Martin !

  233. Eleanor
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    House Nieder,

    Do you mean that Joffrey counts as a child? By the laws and customs of Westeros, he’s certainly a grown man. He’s older than Sansa, who was 14 at her wedding and may be 15 now. Remember how young Jaime was when he started his career!

  234. Lord Snow
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    Anyone noticed the halls of the Iron Throne all in snow like the vision Dany had in the first season when Khal Drogo died? Does this mean Bran actually saw the future in this vision and thats whats supposed to happen which means the Nights Watch fails to protect the north and the White Walkers get past them and into the other parts of the land? It’s the first thing that went to my mind since we know that D&D have talked to GRRM about the future and who is going to sit on the Iron Throne… Can it be?

  235. Justin Snow
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    What is “CotF”?

  236. Rene
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    Maybe Shae will take Penny’s role and the writers think of a different event that makes Tyrion go mad on Tywin

  237. WildSeed
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ,

    It was unmistakable , for those with foreknowledge, that lady Olenna was up to something. With the initial viewing, and as anxious as I was, I could not make out if there was a slight of hand as she caressed Sansa’s
    hair and neck/shoulder. I really didn’t see her take anything away. It became quite apparent when I repeated the episode, one crystal was missing. This was executed brilliantly. Really love the fuss that the QoT was gibbering about, everyone at the wedding table was too uptight to anyway, but she expertly made certain their would be no questioning her innocence. Margaery’s well timed ” he’s choking ” following an insightful look at her grandmother, really demonstrated how well bonded she is to lady Olenna’s cleverness.

    On a lighter note, I wonder how many critics are gnashing their teeth regarding the missing hairnet and Penny with Groat the pig ( :

    Jack Gleeson gave the performance of his career last night. All his peers at school must envy him double -fold.

    The main characters rose above the script last night, and the script was superb. It’s 2 for 2 this season.

  238. WildSeed
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

    Justin Snow:
    WildSeed,

    What is “CotF”?

    Children of the Forest

  239. WildSeed
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    Lex,

    I agree, strong start for the season. Ramsey’s female devotee or girlfriend did raise my eyebrow but she she really is maladjusted, either through manipulation or inherent sociopathic tendency they both share. I hope GoT attempt some continuity with Ramsey’s extreme nature and have her murdered at some point. The TV series does have a fixation on pairing couples, which annoys the f*** out of me.

    I’m still pondering Reek’s (un)timely admission about Bran & Rickon being alive. Too soon ?

    Moat Cailin, here we come !

    The Rh’llor / ser Florent sacrifice was meant to be underrated, IMO, as was Stannis’s stoic reaction. Even though he voices what Melisandre would expect of him, the man is a walking enigma and difficult to pinpoint. It’s one one the qualities I so admire him for. Stannis !

  240. House Nieder
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

    I am very interested to find out how much of this The Lion and the Rose episode really is George’s. If you listen to his commentary on The Bear and the Maiden Fair, he states that several scenes in his episode were moved around and some weren’t his. (The torture scenes).

  241. Get Kraken
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Yes, I’m aware of what the scene was representing, but was just curious if anyone could discern what was said at that particular moment. It’s the only part of the vision that I couldn’t clearly hear.

  242. Justin Snow
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    Thanks! I should’ve known that…

  243. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    AlayneStone:
    If Olenna and LF planned the PW together, does this mean that the Tyrells know or at least suspect that Sansa is alive and with LF now?

    Yes! A very critical secret, often pondered. I don’t know how it is kept under wraps. Even if they weren’t told directly, the Tyrells must be able to put two and two together, right? Oh Loras, do you know this?

  244. Michael
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    Eating the cake killed Joffery. Did everyone notice the dead birds? They must have ate the cake from inside.

  245. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed:
    Lex,
    I agree, strong start for the season. Ramsey’s female devotee or girlfriend did raise my eyebrow but she she really is maladjusted, either through manipulation or inherent sociopathic tendency they both share.

    I found it interesting that Ramsay’s “bitch” was the one doing the actual shooting during the “hunt”, not Ramsay himself. He loves to direct and control. I hope Myranda realizes that she is one step away from being dog food herself.

    Myranda as fake Arya? That is a real stretch….

  246. WildSeed
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    Get Kraken,

    Apologies, you and I are possibly not too well acquainted. If you are a reader, the GreenSeer dynamic is well known to you, as were the events that scene adapted , onscreen. Both of us as viewers had a slight disconnect with the ominous voice ( I think ), which I deduced as the word ” North ” ( if that is the “particular” you questioned ). The next few episodes will clarify soon enough. Did that Wight remind of S1 ? It was eery but pretty cool.

  247. Geneva
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    TheBerylfly,

    I did read an article where the producers talked about spending about 70 minutes in Tyrion’s cell this season. I could see Tyrion piecing it together while spending so much time alone in the dark.

  248. WildSeed
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    the truth has been stretched already….. the show runners have run away with the story, lmao !

    Viewers only got a taste of Reek’s mental anguish and physical demoralisation. I was sad when I read it and viewed it last night.

    There were several telling facial expressions last night, at the wedding especially. With the exception of very immature Tommen, and his pseudo sociopathic mother, all other guests in attendance looked on with agitation with Joffrey’s antics. Denial is a terrible obstacle to overcome in moments like that. damn if you do, damned if don’t. Mace Tyrell looked like a squirrel about to be grabbed by a Red Shoulder Hawk.

  249. House Nieder
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

    I would consider him a child, yes. GRRM refers to him as a child. Isn’t 16 a man grown? He’s definitely not 16 in the story is he? Not that it matters I just found it interesting. On rewatch I also noticed again that Olenna goes on about killing someone at a wedding is terrible. I liked that they showed suspects claiming these things.

  250. House Mormont
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    I liked how we watched Tyrion lose everyone loyal to him before the wedding

    Varys saying to his face he won’t lie (and he doesn’t in the trial)

    Shae being turned away by Tyrion and finding the Tower of the Hand instead, I imagine she’ll be wanting revenge at the trial

    And Bronn, keeping something from Tyrion about Shae boarding the ship, it would make sense if Jaime got Shae, with his new friendship with Bronn, and took her to Tywin. It’d make better sense in the finale, instead of bringing up Tysha again, who the audience have probably forgotten already and won’t sympathise with Tyrion about. I remember thinking, wtf? Jaime just saved your life? It happened years ago and Tysha probably just wanted your gold anyway?

  251. Get Kraken
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    WildSeed,

    No I don’t think we’re well acquainted, but we’re getting there.

    I don’t believe you’re speaking about the particular one I mentioned. The one I’m referring to occurs in this series of events:

    starting when the three-eyed raven says “beneath the tree”
    footage of the dead horse the WW is on from the season 2 finale
    footage of the throne room a-la Dany’s HoU vision
    footage of WW seen through ice (? from beneath ?)
    voiceover of Cersei saying “he saw us” …also quick footage of a crow or raven
    footage from the closing scene of the series premiere (Bran falling from the tower)
    **word or noise I’m wondering about**
    footage of a dragon flying over KL
    a couple of quick shots
    three-eyed raven saying “North”

  252. House Mormont
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    My interpretation of the WW in Bran’s vision was that it was a White Walker awaking beneath the ice, his reflection is on the ice above him

    Also, Bloodraven never mentions dragons to Bran in the their two chapters together, hoping this indicates he’ll warg a dragon

  253. House Mormont
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    Get Kraken,

    all Bloodraven says is “look for me, beneath the tree, NORTH”

  254. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont:
    Get Kraken,
    all Bloodraven says is “look for me, beneath the tree, NORTH”

    Besides the amazing greensight displayed in that scene, I particularly liked that Summer actually seemed to direct Bran to the weirwood tree. Those direwolves are amazing animals. More please.

  255. Get Kraken
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    I agree. That’s why I’m wondering who/what said the thing I mentioned.

  256. House Mormont
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    yeah, I wish we got the scene where Grey Wind finds a secret route and smuggles the Stark army into the Westerlands unnoticed

  257. Geneva
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    Am I the only one who thinks the face in the ice form Bran’s vision is not a White Walker, but Bloodraven himself? It just looks less symmetrical than a WW’s, and it looks like it has roots growing in and out of its features.

  258. Ours is the Fury
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

    Geneva,
    I was wondering about that actually, but it looked more like a WW I thought. The vision was distorted at that point so it was hard to tell. Bloodraven certainly appeared in the vision as part of the tree in this bit. Screencap

  259. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:53 pm | Permalink

    Geneva,

    Only if Bloodraven has blue eyes, or should I say, blue eye, in the show. He is an albino, so his one eye is red. I wonder how closely they will stick to Bloodraven’s description from the books? Will he still have a birth mark that looks like a raven? Will he still be an albino who is missing an eye? It should be interesting.

  260. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    I’m not seeing it. I see what looks like a face, but I assumed it was a face carved into a tree or maybe a child of the forest.

  261. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    Geneva,
    I was wondering about that actually, but it looked more like a WW I thought. The vision was distorted at that point so it was hard to tell. Bloodraven certainly appeared in the vision as part of the tree in this bit.

    I thought that image was nothing more than the weirwood tree under which “the voice” told Bran to look. BR’s lair is underneath that weirwood.

  262. Clob
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    I find it questioned in a few places but no answer. Was it Jack Gleeson singing during the credits? It certainly sounds like him – if he can sing.

  263. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    Clob,

    Lol, no. It was the band Sigur Ros. They appeared in the episode and performed the song, before Joffrey threw some coins at them and told them to stop. This reminds me of people asking if it was Nicolaj Coster-Waldau who performed the song at the end of ‘Blackwater’.

  264. crabber's son
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

    Actually according to The Gastroenterology of Dragons written by Archmaester Ch’Vyalthan after reaching late adolescence dragons begin to store raw meat in their throats prior to digestion and when they are ready to eat it they regurgitate the meat and char it to their liking. It is known. I took a class on it at the Citadel back in 288 AL.

  265. Ours is the Fury
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

    The credits music is Sigur Ros, the band who also cameoed as themselves at the wedding playing the song.

    Apparently I should have spoken more clearly. Bloodraven was speaking through the tree with the open mouth. It’s not the heart tree Bran was touching, with a closed mouth. The details of the face are more human-looking than the heart trees usually get which makes me think they created the tree differently this time around, maybe even merged the actor’s features with the face on the tree that Bloodraven is beneath. I dunno, just spitballing here.
    Here, this cap’s higher definition: http://i.imgur.com/GAfYUSR.jpg

  266. AA
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:53 pm | Permalink

    Bard,

    I agree Myranda could be used as fake Arya. With her bow and arrow and her hair tied back, Myranda reminded me of a grown-up version of Arya from the pilot. It could be an interesting (but different from the books) dynamic when Theon saves her.

  267. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    Bloodraven was speaking through the tree with the open mouth. It’s not the heart tree Bran was touching, with a closed mouth. The details of the face are more human-looking than the heart trees usually get which makes me think they created the tree differently this time around, maybe even merged the actor’s features with the face on the tree that Bloodraven is beneath. I dunno, just spitballing here.

    Nice cap. Thx. I agree that the BR’s weirwood “heart tree” will be the one from the vision. But, simply saying “North” is a bit vague, imho. They really need a guide…and a protector (in addition to Summer), because the North night is dark and full of terrors.

  268. Zack
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    1) Sigur Ros. Their version of Rains was great, but I was really hoping for one of the other songs from the book.

    In show-Westeros, there are only two songs

  269. MVD
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 11:31 pm | Permalink

    Zychotous,

    Turn on captions when watching. You’ll pick up a lot more

  270. MVD
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 11:37 pm | Permalink

    UnbowedUnbentUnhodor,

    Instructed her to have Shae brought to the Tower of the Hand before the wedding

  271. TheSilentOne
    Posted April 14, 2014 at 11:46 pm | Permalink

    I’m probably one of the very few annoyed that this is being called The Purple Wedding.
    Are we color-coding death weddings now? What was Dany & Drogo’s The Brown Wedding?! Come on…

    Regardless, brilliant acting from the whole cast. As much as Jack as Joffrey sets my teeth on edge, he was always a standout & I’ll miss him for that.

  272. dumdum
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 12:32 am | Permalink

    No dagger scene?

  273. House Mormont
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 12:40 am | Permalink

    TheSilentOne,

    You’ll be sad to know there’s also a “Pink Letter” coming, to join the RW and the PW

  274. WildSeed
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 3:02 am | Permalink

    Get Kraken,

    good tidings friend, on this eve of the blood moon and Lunar Eclipse ( actually happening as I type this, from California ). I recall everything you’ve written here, but draw a blank for that particular instance, of your query .
    My brain was so fascinated with what seemed familiar, and paced ahead as the scene quickly drew to a close.
    No doubt someone here who watched closely than I will prepare a detailed report.

  275. WildSeed
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 3:07 am | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    You both make good points here and we’ll see soon enough as the season progresses . Knowing that Martin wrote this script warns me to not leap to tidy conclusion or speculation. He’s twisting the screw, and realize quite well that those with foreknowledge are gnashing their teeth for more detail. Nerds are so predictable .

    Isn’t anyone concerned that the moon has disappeared from the sky ? It’s pitched black up here in the hills *>*

  276. Nick Legit
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 3:30 am | Permalink

    freoduwebbe,

    no… they refused to eat. maybe i will have to read the books for myself because everywhere i see it says dragons have to cook their meat before eating or their bodies will reject it. no where does it say a dragon can cook food inside their bodies. so either no one here has read the books and knows… or it isnt stated which makes no sense.

  277. Nick Legit
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 3:34 am | Permalink

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ,

    then how do you explain in the first episode all 3 dragons are feeding on a raw sheep… it is implied they only eat raw meat. and if dragons have to grow and learn to breathe fire dont you think they can also regulate how much fire they breathe?… lol see its a good question… no one else seems to care even though were all nerds and stuff and everyone discusses other things when the dragons should be talked about more because lets be real… the dragons are going to kill everyone!

  278. Nick Legit
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 3:39 am | Permalink

    NP,

    of and dragons fire is suddenly the same temperature as regular fire?… dont make yourself sound smart. anything touched remotely by dragon fire is scorched.

  279. Nick Legit
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 3:46 am | Permalink

    David The Grey,

    the dragons right before drogon turned and got all pissy at dany it looked like they were feeding i mean you couldnt see really well because of the rocks but they are surrounding their pray and look to be feeding and then in the tent in season 3 they ate the raw meat off screen after fighting over it but you can hear them feeding in the background lol.

  280. Nick Legit
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 3:51 am | Permalink

    NP,

    plus the sheep was clearly nut burnt… it was still white… i have eyes thank you. inconsistencies piss me off… especially when it comes to dragons. if you set up a specific lore in a a fantasy world then you better stick with it!

  281. Greenjones
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 4:12 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    That’s the heart tree from “Second Sons”. It was outside of the cabin Sam and Gilly stopped in before the WW showed up.

  282. Jessica Grange
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 5:14 am | Permalink

    Joffrey’s death scene was disappointing for me…

    Book: Drunkenly scoffing Pigeon Pie, starts coughing, starts choking, starts panicking, claws chunks of own throat out, eyes bulging, turns purple, dies.

    TV: Starts coughing, starts choking, falls over, turns purple, dies.

    See what I mean?

    By the way, the dragon argument on here is a new level of over-thinking nerdiness.

  283. Dheep'
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    Doesn’t anyone else find it interesting & AMusing that someone would call themselves a Perfectionist ?

  284. Ser Endrew Tarth
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    I’ve answered the dragon meat question above…

    Long story short, it is a mistake somewhat by the showrunners which I allow may have to do with budget or logistics (i.e. working with fire, burnt carcass’, shot constraints etc.)

    It’s like the Targs not having purple eyes, or the Iron Born’s misuse of “The Iron Price”. You can ignore it, or find an alternate explanation in your mind like: “the dragons must have charred the sheep off-screen and somehow we didn’t hear the fire”.

    I don’t recall noticing any problem with the meat in the tent scene last season, but as many are bringing it up I will have to re-watch I guess.

  285. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    Jessica Grange:
    By the way, the dragon argument on here is a new level of over-thinking nerdiness.

    Isn’t it fun though? Quite entertaining, imho. Totally worth the price of admission.

  286. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    Greenjones:
    Ours is the Fury,
    That’s the heart tree from “Second Sons”. It was outside of the cabin Sam and Gilly stopped in before the WW showed up.

    Whoa. So Sam and Gilly could have unknowingly been resting near weirnet central? Crazy. Must inspect.

  287. Ours is the Fury
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    Greenjones:
    Ours is the Fury,

    That’s the heart tree from “Second Sons”. It was outside of the cabin Sam and Gilly stopped in before the WW showed up.

    Yep, you’re right. Never mind!

  288. Ben Matako
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I wonder if Shae actually went to the tower instead of getting on the ship as Bronn told Tyrion. Hmmm….

  289. Deborah
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    Nick Legit,

    I know this is late but I completely agree with you. It bugged me as well and I think they made a mistake. It took me right out of the scene.

  290. fuelpagan
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    Nick Legit,

    I would assume a dragon can cook its food while swallowing once it has mastered the ability to produce fire. A mother would cook the food for the babies much the same way some animals will chew food for their infants that don’t have teeth yet. Whether a grown dragon eats cooked or raw meat, it will be cooked by the time it enters the stomach.

  291. Steel_Wind
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    TNR:
    hi! I read the books a few years ago, but after seeing last nights episode I have a lot of new questions!

    - why did the Queen of Thorns had to smuggle the amethyst in through the necklace/hairnet? Couldn’t she have just brought it herself?
    - was Margaery in on this?
    - wouldn’t it have been better for her to wait until she was pregnant with him, because killing Joff on his wedding is only going to cause more confusion about who is the actual queen? (Cersei could certainly seize this moment to take back some power…)

    The reason the poison was carried by Sansa was because Littlefinger wanted to implicate Sansa in the murder to ensure that she would flee King’s Landing. He could not make her run and if she stayed, his plans would be ruined. The entire point of killing Joffrey and having Tyrion take the fall for the deed was so Littlefinger could get Sansa out of KL and under his control so she could be married off — and otherwise bedded. (From the Tyrell perspective, the entire point to killing Joffrey was because he was vile and if he was not killed early on, Loras would probably end up killing him as a member of his Kingsguard to protect Margaery – and war would result).

    It would have been safer for Sansa to stay and deny all knowledge and rely upon her tender years and being a gentle heart — and the fact that Tywin would not risk killing his last remaining Stark. Has she stayed, it is likely that the Tyrells would have then prevailed openly upon Tywin for Sansa Stark and he could not have refused the request. Tyrion would have been dead or exiled ot the Wall and Sansa would become a Tyrell. All she had to do for that to come to pass was just stand her ground and deny everything. And it would be true, too. She was a terrible liar and they would know she was telling the truth, or so Littlefinger believed,

    Anyway, Littlefinger had to ensure she would run. In the book, when she realizes that the poison had come from her hairnet, she immediately knew that Cersei would execute her no matter whether she knew the hairnet jewels were poison or not.

    She ran and never looked back; just as she was supposed to.

    2) Yes Margaery was in on it. In the book, they were sharing the wedding cup. If she had not known, she might had drunk from it as well. She must have known when it was poisoned so as to know not to drink fro, the cup afterwards.

    3) Margaery loathed Joffrey and the idea of laying with him as his wife was revolting to her. Moreover, in the book, the REAL concern was that Joffrey would quickly tire of her and do something very stupid and Joffreyesque and hurt Margaery or threaten her life — and Ser Loras would end up killing Joffrey and plunge the realm into Civil War again, with the Tyrells now against the Lannisters. Littlefinger calls this “Kingslayer stew“. The point was: Joffrey would inevitably provoke Loras, so he had to be killed off and quickly.

  292. WildSeed
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    Steel_Wind: It would have been safer for Sansa to stay and deny all knowledge and rely upon her tender years and being a gentle heart — and the fact that Tywin would not risk killing his last remaining Stark. Has she stayed, it is likely that the Tyrells would have then prevailed openly upon Tywin for Sansa Stark and he could not have refused the request. Tyrion would have been dead or exiled ot the Wall and Sansa would become a Tyrell. All she had to do for that to come to pass was just stand her ground and deny everything. And it would be true, too. She was a terrible liar and they would know she was telling the truth, or so Littlefinger believed,

    Not much rational thinking going on within Kings Landing at this point. I would question poor Sansa’s safety should an erratic Cersei puts her in collusion with her accused husband, Tyrion. Besides that, the production has saw to it to rush ahead Theon / Reek disclosing the younger Starks are alive. Ser Roose would be all too glad to report that piece of news to lord Tywin, no doubt increasing his worth to the Lannisters.

  293. WildSeed
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    Nick Legit: yes they writing and attention to detail and the costumes and props are amazing but yeah i am a perfectionist and i can easily find flaws in everything… its a curse but i like consistency

    Zack,

    I dismissed this most recent nerdgate debate, until I found this response. Aside from the commenter admitting here by disclosure, his POV, your rebuttal was a bit much coming from a staffer here. I see that Legit has ranted on below, but milquetoast compared to some repugnant discussion threads that have let stand on this site, IMHO. The blood moon must have some effect on all us lately.

  294. tysnow
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    Well after viewing this episode I have come to a conclusion; I want D&D to make lots of changes to the story…before you freak, it’s not because I don’t like the books I love them, but I already know what’s coming up and now realize I enjoy the new things added rather than those that follow the books verbatim. Sure I enjoyed King Joff’s demise, especially the brutality of it as Cersei could only watch in anguish. But it was Jaime and Bronn, Ramsay and Roose, the hunt that I enjoyed the most. The same goes for last weeks, The awesome brothel introduction of Oberyn and Ellaria is much better than the book. The retooled Inn scene was just plain brutal, thrilling and enthralling. It’s these fresh perspectives, alterations or down right new scenes which I have become to enjoy, and the by the book ones, stale, though at times superb. It may be because they are unexpected treasure, but I say bring on more of them D&D; let me have two versions of GoT, your adaption, playing loose and free and GRRM’s epic original masterpiece.

  295. cherylyn
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    Zychotous,

    Bring her to the Tower of the Hand before the wedding. Or something like that.

  296. Paul
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    Hey guys, i don’t know if this has been mentioned here, but did anyone notice that Tyrion was holding something in his right hand inbetween his forefinger and thumb? Just a little something i noticed on a rewatch. I thought the amethyst dissolved into the wine?

  297. gewa76
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Paul,

    Gee, I hope that’s the case. It certainly makes more sense for there to be some physical evidence leading back to Sansa’s necklace. Otherwise, why bother with that whole charade in the first place? Olenna could have hidden the poison in her own clothes.

  298. Paul
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    gewa76,

    It does look like it, and that would make sense, but when and how did she(Olenna) get the amethyst in the cup? I think she paid one of the servants to do it but dunno. Even having read the books it’s all speculation.

  299. WildSeed
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    Paul,

    Many eyes were nervously on Joffrey for the entire time he berated Tyrion, not to mention the whole affair with the 5 kings skit. There was plenty of time to drop a crystal in his cafe or goblet, including time to dissolve.

  300. gewa76
    Posted April 15, 2014 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

    The show makes it pretty clear that the cup must be poisoned when Margaery takes it and places it near Olenna as the pigeon pie is rolled out. Joff takes a swig before handing the cup to Margaery and shows no ill effects. The release of the pigeons proves a perfect distraction for Olenna to slip the stone in the cup. The next drink Joff takes is when he starts choking.

  301. Ser Endrew Tarth
    Posted April 16, 2014 at 1:18 am | Permalink

    gewa76,

    Ding Ding Ding! You can watch the whole thing play out on screen, and it was so deftly done many of the unsullied are left wondering. It really makes me excited for the rest of the season.

  302. Nick Legit
    Posted April 16, 2014 at 2:35 am | Permalink

    People on this website are rude as hell. Thank you to everyone who agreed with me and also noticed though! I made a good point that no one else seemed to noticed although you guys talk about every little detail about the show and somehow im the nerd? news flash… WE ARE ALL NERDS or why else would we be on this website? rofl. i just don’t like inconsistencies. It takes me out of the show a little when there are blatant mistakes. And if dragons are able to cook meat inside their bodies when they master fire making then they should imply that. There are a lot of instances on this show where things aren’t explained or fleshed out. It gets really confusing to someone who has not read the books. It is a good show but these flaws in it will make people disinterested. So keep on the with being rude! seems thats all the internet is for nowadays.

  303. Nick Legit
    Posted April 16, 2014 at 5:01 am | Permalink

    “Dragons are obligate carnivores, with diets consisting entirely of meat. Dragons cannot eat uncooked meat, but must roast it with their fire-breath before consuming it. Dragons will instinctively reject raw meat, because they physically cannot digest it. Newborn hatchlings would normally be provided with cooked meat by their parent, but if orphaned they must quickly learn to breath fire so they can roast whatever morsels they find, or else starve. Other than the requirement that it must be cooked, Dragons can eat almost any kind of meat, anything from sheep to fish. Historical dragons ridden as beasts of war were known to eat fallen horses and even men on the battlefield. Fully grown dragons could swallow a live horse whole.”

  304. TDubbs
    Posted April 16, 2014 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    In the book they do state that dragons only eat their meat cooked (and are the only animal to do so, along with humans). I’m assuming that in the show, more flames = more CG = higher production cost, so they just scrapped that detail and have them eat raw.

  305. Luke
    Posted April 16, 2014 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    Nick Legit,

    They breathe fire cuz, they’re cooking everything as they eat it.

  306. Patty
    Posted April 16, 2014 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    Tomas Hedwyn Savage,

    I wondered bout Penny myself. Their story line is interesting and I’d love to see it played out to one degree or another.

  307. Sword pen
    Posted April 16, 2014 at 10:44 pm | Permalink

    Loved this episode. How long until we see Ramsay hunting Myranda next?

    I’m really feeling the absence of Kevan and Lancel though….

    http://tiny-tran.blogspot.ca/2014/04/crystal-clay-game-of-thrones-part-7.html

  308. UNoNuthinJonSnow
    Posted April 17, 2014 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Wasn’t this episode awesome? I was so shocked when they arrested Tyrion for something he would never do. If he wants to kill somebody he would never poison this person. But who will sit on the throne now?

    Furthermore I’m really interested in Bran’s story. Will we see him transforming into an animal at the end of the season? (this is not a Spoiler I didn’t read the books ^^)

    If you’re interested in a funny comic related to the 2nd Episode of Season 4, you can find it here:

    https://plus.google.com/+nordicgamesatofficial/posts/4TLYqTayUiy
    or
    https://www.pinterest.com/nordicgames/a-game-of-tropes/
    The comic is called “A Game of Tropes – Nevermore”
    Do you remember this scene? ^^

    If you want to see more comics like this just search for #BOUT2

  309. Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted April 17, 2014 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    Shameless plug for my recap of the first episode (http://drangedinaz.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/20-things-that-got-stuck-in-my-deranged-brain/) and I’m working on Episode 2 now.

  310. David Hamburger
    Posted April 20, 2014 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    Nick Legit,

    Except that they never said anything on the SHOW about dragons requiring cooked meat. Thus, there is no actual SHOW lore for them to be consistent with. The book and show lore are not necessarily the same.

    They’re two SEPARATE entities. Accept that or stupid little things like this will continue to bother you.

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  1. […] note: The discussion in this post is primarily for non-book readers (book fans can discuss the show here). We ask all the series veterans to refrain from posting spoilers in the comments here, veiled or […]


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