Podcast Season 4

Game of Owns: Wedding Detecting

In this follow up of the heavily discussed Purple Wedding, Game of Owns revisits the scene of the crime, armed with evidence and theories from you — the listeners.

Episode 211 – Wedding Detecting

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In this follow up of the heavily discussed Purple Wedding, Game of Owns revisits the scene of the crime, armed with evidence and theories from you — the listeners.

Discussion Topics

The mystery
Cersei, the Queen
Losing the kingdom
The Queen of Thorns
On the dais
What about Sansa?
Tyrion in chains
An old case, not yet solved
Thoughts from the listeners


  • Cersei would never kill her own child, specifically not Joffrey.

    That’s a plot point they’ve tried to hammer home time and again in the past seasons: Cersei is ridiculously devoted to Joffrey, even though he’s an ingrateful idiot who doesn’t respect her.

    It’s said that Cersei’s “only redeeming feature is her love for her children”….but, as it turns out, even that was a farce:

    She was *obsessed* with Joffrey because, trapped in a loveless marriage, when he was a baby she fantasized about the great king he’d be for her one day…and she just embraces the fantasy no matter how many early signs there were that he was crazy (and oh boy, there were signs…I hope Stannis explains the “cat incident” next week). Meanwhile, she ignores her two younger children…so she isn’t even really devoted to them either.

    If Cersei had wanted to kill Joffrey or realized she needed to stop him, she’d have done it long ago. The entire point of Cersei as a character is that she is utterly unwilling to stop Joffrey.

  • Cersei killing Joffrey makes absolutely no sense and it ISN’T a good point and there is no motive, sorry. That’s like saying it was Bran that secretly had Ned killed.

    And why is there still a mystery when the culprit’s apparently already been spoiled for you?

  • about the Cersei theory and sending Pycelle to the kitchen so he will not recognize the effects of the poison. If you look at the part of the war of the kings show, where Varys got hit in the head, you can see Pycelle was sitting beside him. Pycelle also got hit in the head.

  • OT: Surprising interview with GRRM on ABC World News Tonight (w/Diane Sawyer) this evening. GRRM wants to be Jon Snow but identifies with Tyrion. Expect an upcoming cameo post S4.

  • I submit that it’s possible Cersei meant to poison Tyrion, or possibly Margaery (highly risky) but the humiliation of Tyrion mixed everything up and she killed Joffrey by accident. Then, to make lemonade out of lemons, she blames Tyrion when Joffrey pointed in that direction.

    Who had access to the goblet, who had access to the wine? Where were both of those pieces and when?

    And aren’t the Lannisters fans of Dornish wine? Possible that the Red Viper poisoned it as a mass wipeout attempt of the Lannisters and/or tyrells? That being said, I think the Red Viper would prefer to get stabby so poison wouldn’t be the preferred way to go.

  • [edited to make more clear when the last “safe” sip occurs]

    zack read an emailed comment from a mr. adam eperson, who pointed out that it’s pretty clear when joff took his last “safe” drink from the goblet.

    to support that, i too rewatched the sequence of events that was shown onscreen. joff drank from the cup after tyrion fills it but before marg sets down the cup when the pie arrives, but joff appears not to be affected by poison until the sips he takes post-pie. you can watch the whole scene or skip forward to around 3:45 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2W2xHM4cWo

    here’s the onscreen journey of the cup leading up to joff’s death, starting from tyrion declining to join in the War of the Five Kings performance:

    * joff pours wine on tyrion’s head
    * joff drops the goblet
    * sansa picks it up
    * sansa hands it to tyrion
    * tyrion attempts to hand it to joff, but instead is forced to fill it
    * pie arrives during the joff/tyrion “KNEEL TO YOUR KING!” standoff
    * marg says, “OH HAI PIE!”
    * joff snatches the tyrion-filled goblet from tyrion
    * joff takes his last “safe” sip as he turns his back on tyrion
    * marg takes the goblet from joff, sets it on the bride’s end of the table to free joff up to kill/liberate some doves (olenna is closest, but she would still have to leave her place to put anything in it)
    * joff hacks open the pie, people clap, servants start delivering pie — the camera shows us only the groom’s side of the wedding party
    * tyrion and sansa try to leave
    * camera focuses back on joff and marg (we can see olenna is still in her place, but she was off camera for a few minutes)
    * joff tells mr. and mrs. tyrion lannister to stay, while he is eating pie
    * pie is dry, marg hands him wine
    * joff sips and starts choking

    if we assume the poison is very fast acting (book readers can assume that, but i guess it’s not a certainty in the show yet), that arguably rules out everyone shown to touch the cup other than tyrion, the bride, her family, and any servants or others who were off camera and could have reached it while the pie was being hacked and served.

  • I was expecting a Bran discussion as well after Monday’s show, but I completely understand since The Purple Wedding is the hotter topic. Although I would like to hear what everybody thinks those images meant, there will always be time in the future if Bran has more visions.

    Good job going over the possible suspects and I agree with all points since I’ve had those theories after each watch. If they’ve kept Jon Arryn’s killer secret this long, I don’t expect this to be resolved next episode.

    Micah voiced a concern during one of the shows before the season began. It was that some viewers may forget or not even care about Jon Arryn’s death since it hasn’t been brought up since early season 1. I wonder if with this recent death of poison, it may bring back the discussion of Jon Arryn amongst the characters and reveal who it was.

    Fans and casual viewers alike will be tuning in to find out who did it. If they don’t want to reveal Joffrey’s killer, they’re going to have to deliver something to leave the audience satisfied and I’m hoping for Jon Arryn’s killer.

  • i don’t think that Brans visions have been given their just due.. hopefully someone will go in depth soon.

  • Soopa Doop,

    This is speculation as no confirmation in the books yet but I’ll go ahead and cover it. A lot of people think the throne room in Dany’s & Bran’s visions is filled with snow. But it may be ash. Couple that with the dragon shadow over Kings Landing and it would seem to foreshadow a dragon burning the Red Keep.

    This part is a spoiler for sure: The voice talking to him is obviously Bloodraven telling Bran where to find him.

    Not really sure what the Ned visions meant, if anything. Also, interestingly, I believe this is the first time he knows/remembers what happened to him (being pushed out of the tower by Jaime) although we don’t actually see either Cersei or Jaime (but we do hear Cersei’s voice).

  • alright so Marg’s Grandma touches Sansa’s neck before anything happens, taking a jewel from her necklace, which is actually a vile of poison… The necklace was given to her by the butler who has been working with Marg’s grandmother the whole time plotting it carefully. When Marg takes the goblet from Joff and sets it next to her grandmother…shit goes down.

  • I think this episode provided more of a well-rounded perspective on the potential suspects. I disagree with those who say Cersei isn’t a possible suspect. Especially for those who have not read the books, the analysis that has gone into her as a potential killer is something I think has been very well done.

    On the Bran front, we will definitely take a closer look on the next episode!

  • Hexonx,

    Appreciate the insight, but since I haven’t read ahead, the words behind the black will not be seen by me. You may just be speculating as well, but your educated guesses were drawn from book info the show hasn’t covered yet. I do find it interesting how the show runners have managed to tease sullied and unsullied alike with Dany in Season 2 and Bran in Season 4.

  • BTW, the poison didn’t have to come from Pycelle. In Ep 401, Cersei thanks Qyburn for a mysterious something.