Looking Forward, Game of Thrones Ep. 405 and Eunuchization
By Oz of Thrones on in Editorial, Speculation.

UnsulliedGlad tidings again from your chosen Unsullied Leader/Village Idiot where a man is prepping to provide some weekend entertainment appetizers for a small select few (it’s a long story) at a locale probably similar to a Mole’s Town Tavern (assuming there is such an establishment).

Let us Look Forward to a meal suitable for a King’s cat.  None of that bagged, harsh, dry crap.  Today we’re breaking out the canned, juicy stuff.  And it is deserved as we are almost at the halfway point (and there could potentially be a lady in attendance in the upcoming ep. that I am, well, predisposed to).

You all know to whom a man refers.  But as important as the reemergence of Lysa may (or may not) be, there are even more important matters at hand… the difference between being Sullied and Un, and the growing similarities between the two.

 

I begin today with a disclaimer (because I am fond of them, and they somewhat waive me from responsibility).  Here goes:

Disclaimer:  I almost didn’t pen a Wishing Away the Weekend this week.  After all, I could write an entire post on Lysa, my obsession with the character, the intrigue regarding her relationship with Littlefinger, whether or not Robin has graduated from the bewb, and the probability of Sansa and Arya being reunited at the Vale.

While such a post might entertain some, it might annoy others.  As one good reader wrote me stated, “I love your posts Oz, but your obsession with Lysa is creepy.”

Agreed.

But as I wrestled with the notion of not posting leading up to S4:E5, the bigger issue of what occurred at the end of 404 swirled in my mind, and I charged onward…

The Sullied Becoming Unsullied   

As a true Unsullied viewer who avoids spoilers (and the books for now) like the plague, I had no idea that the frozen Darth Maul White Walker at the end of Ep. 4 was a player that the Sullied were unaware of.

Since being informed of such, I have tried to imagine exactly how I would feel about this if I were a book reader, especially if I were a book reader who read the first book sometime in the 90’s.

I am also aware that there is no right or wrong answer to this question.  Some Sullied are fine with finding out about things prior to book release.  But I would imagine that most are frustrated with the notion, and understandably so.

For the Unsullied, non-book readers including fanatics like the WiC army or even casual viewers of the show, it is important to realize the investment that many readers have in this series of books.  Perspective is this: there are viewers of the show who were not born when the first book was released.  There are Sullied who read the first book 18 years ago and have been invariably impatient in the release of subsequent books since then.  Let that sink in Younglings… eighteen years.

I venture to say that most of the viewer-only group were not even aware of the books before GoT first aired on HBO (Ozzette and yours truly included).  And for some, it was even later after the show grew in popularity when more viewers jumped on the wagon.

Comparatively speaking, there is no comparison.  Books offer a detail that has arguably never been reached in screen adaptation, of anything.  It offers insight and history that can’t be duplicated due to time constraints, or budget, or a plethora of other factors.  And in this case, time.  Viewers have roughly three and a half years invested in this story (if that), with a nine month break in between seasons.  There are book readers that have been invested since before some of you were born.

And you want to know why there are over 700 comments on the Sullied Oathkeeper recap thread on WiC alone?  How would you feel?

The Sullied are now faced with a decision that, to be blunt, I am happy I am not confronted with.  They either stop watching the show so they can conclude this journey as they began it.  Or they spoil themselves by simply doing what we do… watching HBO on Sunday nights.

Suddenly, the roles are reversed if the Sullied choose the former.  They will have to avoid the show, the internet, the reviews, and any entertainment media outlet for the next 3-4 years to be able to conclude the journey as they began it.  And as hard as it is for Unsullied to avoid spoilers about books, it pales in comparison in avoiding spoilers about a wildly popular television show with ratings that continue to exceed expectation.  In fact, it would be damn near impossible without throwing the Sony out the window and disconnecting the broadband.

I realize there is much more of the story to be told that the Sullied are already privy to.  There are still two more books of material to be covered before the show catches up (unless George releases the next one in that time frame, and even then it won’t be concluded).  And ultimately there are bigger problems in the world than a television series catching up and potentially surpassing the material from which it was derived.  But it is somewhat of a cultural phenomenon nonetheless, and now every Sullied that tunes in on Sunday night will probably be wondering whether or not they will witness yet another unwritten instance that will be visualized before it is described in text.  And for the Sullied, that has to be at least somewhat, frustrating as hell.

Looking Forward to 405 

In the preview, Dany actually asks the question!  “Will that be enough to take King’s Landing?”  Is this a sign that Dany’s move to Westeros is in the near future?  I think I can safely speak for the Unsullied Army when I say, we are ready.  We’ve been ready.

Tommen takes the Throne and the mother of madness is seen blocking the adoring eyes attempting to focus in on Marg.  How soon will Grandma Lemon Cakes leave the capital and will her absence leave Marg at risk to the wrath of drunk Cersei?  And while we are on the topic, what about the planned wedding with Loras that has been on the table since Paw met with Tyrion and Cersei?

The Stark and the Hound continue their love/hate relationship as Arya appears to stab her protector.  What has he done now?  Is his armor needle-proof?  Are they still headed to the Vale?

Jon and the Volunteers open the sold-out, restless crowd for the fan-favorite Hodor and the Reeds at Craster’s Concert Hall.  Karl, Rast and the boys are a dangerous bunch to be facing off with, but I’m more concerned with Locke.  It is known that all he really wants is Bran and Rickon.

Speaking of, a man needs some Roose.  And how are Ramsay and Reek progressing to Moat Cailin?

Per the preview pics, I’m very interested to see what Oberyn and Drunk Cersei are discussing.  Tyrion? Maybe the trial?  How soon is the trial? The threesome? Lancel sandwich?

And last but not certainly not least…

My old friend.   Welcome back Crazypants Arryn.   It’s been a long time indeed.

Putting out a RSP (Raven Search Party) for the Brotherhood Without Banners.  The last time we saw Thoros, Anguy, Beric and the boys, they were going after some Lannister soldiers as The Hound picked up a fleeing Arya.  It’s been a while.  Where are you guys?

A man is out.  Hope you all have a great weekend.  If you are feeling frisky like Ser Pounce, you can find me on the twittersephere @OzofThrones.   Follow along just for the hell of it.

I realize this post may be an invitation for spoilers, BUT PLEASE, no spoilers here.  And if I am totally incorrect about how the Sullied feel, please explain below.  BUT without book detail.  Adopt an Unsullied… don’t spoil.

What are you guys looking forward to this episode?  Let’s discuss.

And make sure you tune in for next week’s Looking Forward as the time will have come for the 2nd Annual Halftime Show… 

Stay hydrated my friends, and may there always be peace in your realm. –Oz

“Unbowed.  Unbent.  Unsullied.”


46 Comments

  1. Our Blades Are Sharp
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    Lord Ramsay Bolton!!!!

  2. cindy
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    Well, I am one Sullied that was thrilled by the turn of events. Based on Martin’s track record of getting books out, Im not expecting to ever see another book of his in my life time, and don’ really care if the events of the show give a peek into what is in Martin’s head. Since there is no physical book yet, what difference does it make how we get to see it now? Besides, if I am surprised and the book does come out, I’ll probably enjoy it all the more, because like his other books, Im sure there will be plenty of filler that will provide better detail into what is going on. And for me it adds to the fun of watching – for now, instead of explaining things to my unsullied DH, we can now both wonder whats next.

  3. Patchy Face
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    Oz – Nice job as always. As Sullied, looking as forward to this one as the Un, just to see what happens! So excited…

  4. Turncloak
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    Don’t stop talking about Lysa Oz. I love your obsession with her. I also can’t wait to see her

  5. freoduwebbe
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Dolorous Ed!

    I’m a sullied – or at least I was. don’t mind getting more and more sullied…

    Happy Lysa day!!!! we hope (I’m one of the ones that finds HER creepy – but not your obsession)

    Corinne

  6. Jospeh
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    You’d think the term ‘Lancel Sandwich’ would tire after the first few uses but its never gone stale…

    As Sullied I was left in a strange state after Oathkeeper. It was on the one hand a great episode with some fantastic scenes (Sansa calling out Littlefinger’s bullshit), but on the other hand the ending disturbed me. Immediate thoughts were that I couldn’t see how I could carry on watching if it was going to start giving new information, but as I rewatched it the next day I calmed down and took the scene for what it was; a fantastic new development fresh for readers and UnSullied alike. Just a little.

    I’ll carry on watching for now, I don’t expect any more implicit spoilers from future books in this series. Come series 5 however its a difficult decision I expect I’ll have to make.

  7. Danarya
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    Great read as always, Oz. I am Sullied but I for one can’t give up my favorite show. The show was my first love & inspired me to read the books last summer. Since the show is moving away a little from the books, I feel like the playing field is now leveled and we sullied & unsullied alike can just enjoy the ride together.

    I keep comparing this to Dexter, another Sunday night favorite of mine before they jumped the shark. Dexter is based on a book series, “Darkly Dreaming Dexter.” If you are a fan of this show, you know the Ice Truck Killer was the first “big bad” in season one. And, spoiler alert, ITK turns out to be Dexter’s long lost brother, Brian. He also woos Dexter’s adopted sister Deborah and then tries to use his brotherly persuasion to get Dexter to kill her. Well, the whole Deb thing never happened in the books, Dexter ends up letting him escape, and kindof “the end.” Subsequent books have many of the same characters, but vastly different stories than what’s in the book series. It’s all good. . . Just a little different.

    We sullied do not know what GRRR plans to do with his last two books. What if it’s completely different that what D&D are giving us on HBO? It might be, based on “Oathbraker.” I’m willing to give them a chance & enjoy the ride.

    Oh, and Oz, my dear, I hope Lysa is on ever episode for the rest of the season, just for your happiness. :)

  8. wizardeyes
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    I too am very much looking forward to seeing Roose, Reek and Ramsay again. Not sure when they’ll appear again though. There are quite a few characters that I’m (even as a Sullied) am not sure when (or if) we’ll be seeing again.

    As you mentioned – the brotherhood. Then there’s Gendry – is he still rowing that boat? Has he reached dry land yet? There’s Yara – last we saw she was embarking on a mission to rescue Theon – when will she reach the Dreadfort? The Blackfish – has he finished pissing against that tree yet?

  9. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    ‘Tis a pleasure reading your posts, Oz. I’m touched that you acknowledged the Sullied conundrum.

    All hail Lysafinger!

  10. Justin DiMatteo
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    Oz, I just wanted to say your theorized perspective of what it’s like to be a Sullied right now is spot on. You may not have read the books, but you completely grasp what it’s like for those of us who have. That combined with your great unspoiled analysis every week makes you a very special member of the GoT community, and I always look forward to your posts.

    So thank you!

  11. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    I too, look forward to the return of Lysa. She isn’t exactly likable, but she’s always entertaining.

    I also look forward to seeing more scenes in the rest of season 4 and all of season 5 that will leave sullied viewers wondering. I’m just looking forward to finding out what happens. Whether it’s in the shows or books, it’s all good. Where I don’t want to find out things is the internet. So there’s no way I’ll be abandoning the show when it catches up with the books.

  12. Reynardd the Fox
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    Great post! The one thing that i hopes results from the new revelations via the TV show is a drastic reduction in the unintential condescension from Sullied toward UnSullied on this board. I know that many (most) are just “trying to help us understand”, but the pats on the head and the pinches of the cheeks (“I just love the cute theories of the Unsullied! They are so naive and silly!” ) get to be a bit much after a while. Of course, those comments are far more welcome than the tortured explanations of how the show is differing from the books along with a complete and utter lack of understanding that *any* references to the books qualify as spoilers and don’t belong here.

    Then again, there actually have been some Sullied comments that interesting and useful. Some of you Sullied are ok afterall.

  13. NomadicDirewolf
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    i am sullied and i personally feel fine with the show giving small reveals about the books (there are probably a lot bigger reveals out there, but when we’re waiting for another book which is nowhere in sight, we’ll blow anything out of proportion) as long as they dont make too much of a habit. I’d be fine if they did it once or twice a season, but not much more than that. There are others out there who might feel differently, and it would be interesting to see if this is the way the majority of sullied feel.
    I also thought that reveal was also very well done as it revealed one thing but left us with even more questions, for both sullied and unsullied. And thats what its like in the books, the more you learn about the WW, the less you know. I think that that reveal did a good job in creating the same curiosity about them as many sullied had, but it didnt seem like many unsullied did. So from that standpoint, it was one of the better changes the show have made, especially in an episode that I felt had a lot of changes which were questionable

  14. Amanda M
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    Personally, I am one of the Sullied who was okay with what happened at the end of last week’s episode. To me, it was interesting/exciting, and I honestly don’t consider it THAT much of a spoiler, compared to other things they could have had happen.

    What I’m more concerned with is the inevitable moment when the actual storylines of the main characters start to dip into unwritten territory.

    I’ve actually discussed with some Sullied friends my biggest fear regarding that issue (as I don’t think I have the self-control to stop watching the show haha) — If the show surpasses the books in some of the main storylines, who’s to say that D&D are going to 100% stick to what GRRM told them? So, if I saw a storyline progress beyond where it is in the books, I’d be totally tortured wondering “Was the book just spoiled for me?? Or am I now going to accept what I’ve seen as canon, only to have the book come out and negate it?” And then I’d have to wrestle with deciding which version I like better and which I consider to be canon and… Yeah. It will be messy.

    Unfortunately, it seems like it’s an inevitability at this point… Sooner or later, we will ALL be Unsullied (and many of us will not be okay with that… hahaha)

  15. wizardeyes
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    Reynardd the Fox,

    Awww don’t worry – you’ll learn to read one day. ;)
    Any (hilarious) theories on what might be coming up in this season? :runs away giggling:

  16. Reynardd the Fox
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    wizardeyes,

    I know, you just can’t help it. Actually, your comment was kind of cute.

  17. Bob
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    I don’t understand why people thought anything from the last episode was a book spoiler. I don’t consider the confirmation of the existence of a character that was already hinted at to be a spoiler. I would also doubt we will get anything more this season that is even at that level of spoiler much less a real one. Now next season is where I will be worried and if TWoW isn’t out by then I will probably not watch the show. It would be nice if Dave and Dan could give us a heads up when they are going to start forging ahead of where the books are.

  18. Suzaku
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    I’m sullied and actually enjoy it when the book divulges (or even diverges), so long as what it’s doing is interesting and entertaining.

    I plan on reading A World of Ice and Fire guidebook when that releases later this year, and for what it’s worth, I expect that to be the source of the episode’s final scene.

  19. Darkstar
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    Margus Toots,

    What do people not understand about No Spoilers?

  20. TheBerylfly
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    As a Sullied I was dismayed at first, but then I saw a post quoting an excerpt from the book all but spelling out the same thing as what has happened onscreen.
    Regardless, while the show just spoils some things I am okay with that, but when the narrative inevitably surpasses Martin entirely, I shall probably quit.

  21. Stacey
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    I’m a Sullied and I’m not sure that the end of the last episode was as spoilery as people are making it out to be. Readers were basically told what the Others/White Walkers do with the babies during ASOS. The difference is, instead of being told about it, we got to see it. It was the same with Mel and Stannis having sex. In the books there are rumors and clues, but since Davos doesn’t believe it, neither did a number of the readers… until the show put Mel/Stannis sex on our screens.

    That said, spoilers are definitely coming, and soon, which is fine by me. Contrary to popular belief, there aren’t two whole novels of material left. Due to changes in the show, there are multiple stories from future books that are happening now. Bran’s ASOS story ended at the close of S3. He’s now in ADWD. Theon/Ramsay/Roose are currently in ADWD too and some of their material from that book already appeared last season. The status of Cersei/Marg’s relationship has been at AFFC for a while now and that’s only increasing with the preview for tomorrow’s episode.

    This speed makes sense since D&D want to end with seven seasons. IMO, we’ll be at full book spoiler status with Bran (arguably the most important POV) next season. And I couldn’t be happier.

  22. A flayed man none
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    As much as I enjoy the series, I still recognize it as entertainment. It’s a story, told through books and video and long chats by the water cooler. WIC.net and other sources add to it, enriching the enjoyment of the story, but it never ceases to be simply a story. Nor will it ever, regardless of how many pages you read or episodes you watch.

    The consternation over having books “spoiled” by the show is overblown, for it ignores the value of literature in general. Despite having read the books, fans of the series have flocked to the show for the same reasons they paid to see Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit in theaters. Should we presume on behalf of those whose first exposure to these tales was on film that there is no value in reading the literary source? Of course not.

    These are just stories, folks. There is no such thing as “canon” outside the mind of fans who are not able to clearly distinguish fiction from reality. If you want some greater truth from a fictional tale, then perhaps you need to remember why you began reading or watching in the first place.

  23. vlad
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

    You might be ready for Dany to come to Westeros, but can anyone imagine that her army is enough to conquer the kingdom??? She has what? 8000 unsullied and 2000 mercenaries from Daario? Now think back at season 1, Robb invaded the south with an army of 18000, and he was the underdog of that war. As far as I remember the Lannisters had over 50.000, Renly? close to 100k? If the dragons were big enough, Dany’s army might be enough, but they are still so small…. I’m really curious about that discussion, there were far too few tactics discussed in seasons 2 and 3, when there was a war going on. I always thought that would have improved the show.

  24. Jared
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    I’m a Sullied viewer who was thrilled by the ending of last week’s episode and will be more than happy to continue watching the show as it diverges from and eventually surpasses the books, spoilers be damned. To be honest, I’m quite eager to get to that point in the story! My investment in the show has threatened to surpass my investment in the books for a while, and this season, I think that I’ve finally gotten to that point. The books are brilliant and I’ll always be glad that I’ve read them, but any time someone goes out of their way to spoil the show for someone else or belittles them for their decision not to read the books, it makes me wish that I hadn’t. I hate that I share even that much association with people who delight in ruining the television experience for others.

    Granted, I have to admit that I only read the books four years ago. It was the summer before the TV series premiered, and they came to my attention primarily because I learned that HBO was going to be making a TV show based on this series of novels called A Song of Ice and Fire. My investment in the world of Westeros burns hot and runs extremely deep, but it is still relatively new to me. I can’t speak to how someone who has been on this train for 18 years, since the beginning, might feel.

    Keep up the great work, Oz! I always enjoy the Unsullied recaps, and yours are among the very best out there. Cheers!

  25. House Mormont
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    As a former member of your unsullied army, and someone who became sullied between season 3 and 4, I looooved getting back that “OH MY GOD WHAT IS HAPPENING????” sensation I got last Monday

    Yay for Unsulliedness

  26. House Mormont
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    Book readers will find it hard to stop watching, so many people talk about Game of Thrones now, my law class had a class debate (with the teacher and maybe 9 members of the class) debating how the law would apply to a certain Jaime and Cersei scene, Game of Thrones is unavoidable

  27. Kay
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    Oz, I hope for your sake that the wonderful Lady Arryn will feature this Sunday.
    I am an Unsullied. Because in this day and age I can’t avoid the Internet, I see comments by the Sullied everywhere about future events. In fact, for some Sullied the primary points of discussion were “oooh.. I can’t wait to see how the Unsullied will react to X”. I do sympathize with the Sullied to an extent about spoilers in the show, but I also think they will finally grasp what it’s like to be Unsullied enjoying this wonderful show.
    I am not sure I am ready for Daenerys and our dragon trio to sail to Westeros right away. I would much rather she – and we – visited a few of these fabled cities we have heard about on the western shores of the continent, and the ruins of Valyria, of course!

  28. Tabes
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    Great show of respect for us Sullied Oz! Classy as always my friend, we are lucky to have you. I for one have come to terms with the show spoiling things from upcoming books and I’m good with it. Besides, I couldn’t stop watching even if I wanted to, there’s no way. And one more thing…never hesitate to write about your ongoing obsession for the Lovely Lysa Arryn, say it loud, say it proud brother, shout it from the rooftops!!! She is a straight fox, it is known.

  29. Hodor Targaryen
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    I am Sullied, but have only been Sullied for the last couple years, and I do think it is dramatically different for those who have followed it for so long. I was a toddler when the first book came out so I’m not in a good position to judge. In fact, I know that I would have hated for the Harry Potter movies to spoil the books, which is the closest example for me personally to what ASoiaF is to the most Sullied of us, something loved and followed for years with dedication. I was initially dismissive of book-reader concerns, perhaps leftover frustration from seeing ridiculous criticism from some of them on tumblr recently, but Oz’s post helped me appreciate what they might be feeling a bit more.

    One positive development of this, tho, is hopefully a more balanced and fair evaluation of the show from Sullied. There’s a different level of scrutiny when it comes to scenes that weren’t in the books. It can’t really be helped, my kneejerk reaction to a change is comparison to the books, who doesn’t? But that bias for how the books depict things won’t be there for when we are all Unsullied, and hopefully the criticism can be a little more consistent then.

  30. Tabes
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    How can people not understand this whole spoiler thing and what would apply as such? It drives me nuts.

  31. Ashara D
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    OZ!! I love, love, love ur posts! Sullied or Un, your musings are one of the most entertaining features of this site.

    As an eleven-year and counting Sullied, I am thrilled to have had the WTF moment that graced our screens last Sunday. Part of the beauty of adaptation is that you get to see someone else’s interpretation of the story. What are the important beats to that person? As all of us here can attest, discussion of our views of what was written (for screen or page) only enhances our experience of the material, never detracts. This is simply an extension of what has gone on forever with the human communication. Whether fan fic, art work, screen play, essay, or even news story; all are interpretations of events, motivations, emotions, causes and effects of the human condition. I, for one, will revel in them all as concerns this story from the mind of another human being. Because there is no one right answer, no “correct” or “incorrect”. There is only the interpretations of the words on the page (or the words out of GRRM’s mouth to D&D) and we are forever free to examine them for ourselves through the infinite lenses of our own unique human conditions.

    Please never consider not posting, Oz, because your take on events is as welcome to me as any other, and always extremely entertaining.

    Here’s to a potential Lysa sighting! Happy watching, everyone!

  32. jentario
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    As a Sullied, I personally felt really awesome when D&D put a knife to my balls last week, though I do understand those who didn’t enjoy it.

    Now let’s be honest here…If GRRM was to ever have a chance at finishing first, he’d have to release the book this year. There is no sign that that will happen, in fact there are enough signs on the contrary. GRRM actually thought for a moment that the show could do three seasons of the last two books (which is impossible)- and even with those added couple of years he thought it would be tight on the last book!

    Sorry, GRRM. Now on to the fans… I am glad D&D decided to do this. They pretty much outright said that they have no intention to slow down for GRRM (probably because they already understood that there’s no chance he’ll finish first, even with 8 seasons). Season 5 will have such “spoilers” in abundance, I think, and it’s good to give out the warning one season earlier.

    I personally was a show watcher first, and as much as I would like to read the book first (because I really think GRRM deserves to finish first), I would never stop watching the show. I enjoyed Oathkeeper. A lot. It became my favorite of season 4 so far (and the bar was already set high). So it’s safe to say I am completely fine with this situation.

    People who aren’t should either quit the show after season 4 (because as I said season 5 will have many mini spoilers) or deal with it. And my condolences to GRRM :(

  33. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    I have read the books. I am not interested in having the inferior version of the story spoil the superior one, and I started reading after season 2. I wouldn’t care much about them passing the books they hadn’t been told “broad strokes.” I suspect this may be my last season watching the show. As for people who think it’s so impossible to avoid spoilers for Game of Thrones, it really isn’t. It depends what the structure of your life is like. If you really want to avoid spoilers for something popular, you can. I have a friend who still has no idea of anything that happens in season 2.

    But anyway, the show<the books and they have knowledge of the end of the series. I do not want to experience the story in the inferior medium first. I found the experience of reading first two books less enjoyable than 3-5 (EVEN THOUGH 4 and 5 are not quite as good as 1 and 2) because I couldn't keep the knowledge of what would happen out of my head. Having that knowledge is fine on a reread, but having it the first time just takes all the fun out of imagining everything, for me.

    I also find it annoying that there are people who were spoiled by book readers and now find joy in the dismay of some book readers at being spoiled by the show. As if every person who has read the books is a smug asshole who goes around spoiling things/"clarifying" things without being asked. It's odd. I've seen several people lump all book readers together and laugh at the idea of us being spoiled by the show. The spoiling/clarifying/leading questions group really is a vocal minority. Most of us just wanted to see people react the way we did when we first read. But someone who read the books spoiled something from the show for you, so now it's funny that the show will likely spoil something from the books for me? That's the kind of jaded crap that makes the world quite unpleasant to live in.

    I would respond to the statement that what was shown wasn't a spoiler, but spoiler tags seem to be unreliable recently so I won't. Just in case.

  34. 3eyes
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

    Oh Great and Powerful – your obsession with Lysa is understandable, as her psychosis is equal to Cercei’s, just in a slightly different context. Adding to the fascination is the fact that we know far less about her than we know about Cercei, although that looks to be changing very soon. May you have your fill in Ep. 405. I’ve only been able to get peanut gallery seats for the show at Craster’s Concer Hall, and I would pay the iron price for one of those Hodor and The Reeds T-shirts.

  35. BathoryBane
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    As a book reader, I couldn’t be more excited to see the story move forward, it has been a hell of a wait. If the show happens to conclude before the final book has been written (which in all honestly is very likely to happen) I for one will welcome it. I love George to bits, but I need to know already, and waiting on another book is pure agony. Nothing so far has been in any way too spoilerish though. Can’t wait to see more!

  36. Monica
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

    As a sullied, I’m more concerned about the deadly winter that’s coming to Westeros, than CGI monsters.

    I’m drawn in by characters and interactions. I love quests and heros with fatal flaws. I can hardly sit through computer-generated armies fighting. That’s not the heart of a good story.

  37. Hexonx
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

    I agree that the whole sullied being spoiled hubub is overblown (I saw a Yahoo headline call it a MAJOR spoiler). You do have to remember though that there are many different types of sullied. Personally I hate starting series that aren’t finished. But I caved and started the books after AFFC came out. So I read the first four books back to back and had to wait for ADWD. I’ve only read each book once and it has been a while since the first four so some of the details have faded from memory. I use sites like this and the various wikis for refreshers. However there are a lot of sullied that don’t and some that wouldn’t have necessarily picked up on those hints anyway. So I can see how some may have felt spoiled. Anyway, I’m really not to worried about being spoiled until about season 6.

  38. Hexonx
    Posted May 3, 2014 at 11:27 pm | Permalink

    OZ’s ode to Lysa:

    When you were here before
    Couldn’t look you in the eye
    You’re just like an angel
    Your (bewbs) makes me cry (with joy)

    You float like an Arryn
    In a beautiful Eyrie
    I wish I was special
    You’re so fucking special

    But I’m a creep, I’m a weirdo
    What the hell am I doing here?
    I don’t belong here

    I don’t care if it hurts
    I want to have control
    I want your perfect (bewbs)
    I want your perfect (bewbs)

    I want you to notice
    When I’m not around (looking at yer bewbs)
    You’re so fucking special
    I wish I was special

    But I’m a creep, I’m a weirdo
    What the hell am I doing here?
    I don’t belong here

    Lysa’s running out the moon door (oh no!)
    Lysa’s running out
    Lysa run, run, run, run
    Run

    Whatever makes you happy
    Whatever you want
    You’re so fucking special
    I wish I was special

    But I’m a creep, I’m a weirdo
    What the hell am I doing here?
    I don’t belong here
    I don’t belong here
    (I belong suckling yer bewbs)

  39. GeekFurious
    Posted May 4, 2014 at 12:49 am | Permalink

    1) I loved the ending. I would rather read it in the books but since George isn’t going to deliver them before 2015 (if we are lucky), I say bring on new material in the show.

    2) I have been unsubscribing and ceasing to read anyone who mentions the Jaime “rape” of Cersei as if it actually happened, ignoring all evidence to the contrary that suggest it was nothing more than a bad edit (or at worst, a bad directing decision that wasn’t written to suggest it on any level). So you win for not even mentioning it at all… unlike some who are now, sadly, forever dead to me for being fuckin’ morons.

  40. grumpycetacean
    Posted May 4, 2014 at 12:55 am | Permalink

    House Mormont:
    As a former member of your unsullied army, and someone who became sullied between season 3 and 4, I looooved getting back that “OH MY GOD WHAT IS HAPPENING????” sensation I got last Monday

    Yay for Unsulliedness

    This is my view exactly!

    And Oz, I’m gonna be so darn happy for you and Lysa this sunday.

  41. Lady Mychelle
    Posted May 4, 2014 at 1:00 am | Permalink

    I am Sullied and I confess I was yelling “WHAT!!?? What?!! Whoa!!?? What!!??” at the tv at the end of last weeks episode.
    And then I watched it a few more times!
    I was jubilant and elated!!
    Spoil me more D&D!!

  42. Casso
    Posted May 4, 2014 at 5:17 am | Permalink

    TheBerylfly:
    As a Sullied I was dismayed at first, but then I saw a post quoting an excerpt from the book all but spelling out the same thing as what has happened onscreen.
    Regardless, while the show just spoils some things I am okay with that, but when the narrative inevitably surpasses Martin entirely, I shall probably quit.

    I was a bit surprised at what seemed to be a significant “book spoiler” in that last scene, but I thought it was pretty cool to finally have a taste of how the Unsullied get to experience the show. Then I saw the quoted excerpt you mentioned, and wondered how the hell I missed that despite reading the book three times.

    I’ve accepted for a while now that the show is almost certainly going to pass the books, and I have no intention of waiting for George to finish. I’m actually looking forward to the opportunity to watch the show as an Unsullied. Also, I’d prefer to be “spoiled” by seeing the story play out on screen, rather than risk being spoiled by hearing a description of major plot points online before watching or reading the story at all.

  43. jentario
    Posted May 4, 2014 at 5:36 am | Permalink

    Hexonx,

    Well well well

  44. Daniellica
    Posted May 4, 2014 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    I understand that some Sullied can be smug little bastards, and a few of them right c*nts, but give us some freakin’ credit. Ned Stark loses his head, the Red & Purple weddings–what other fan base would manage to keep such major spoilers unspoiled (for the most part) for so long? Contrary to what some seem to think, most book readers are keenly aware of what spoilers are and are likewise very sensitive to keeping that information quiet or behind the magical shroud of darkness.

    I also understand that starting any sentence with, “Well, in the books…” is particularly irritating to most Unsullied, but it is again much more benign than some believe. Most book readers have a love and passion for the depth and dimension Martin has given us, and it is this desire to share an enriching insight the show just cannot fit in that compels many to utter that insufferable phrase. I am not saying it is right, just trying to offer some perspective of where I feel many are coming from.

    We don’t want to spoil you.* We don’t want to make you feel stupid or ignorant.** We don’t consider your fandom inferior.*** I love geeking out over this world/story, and even more geeking out on it with others, but I am always mindful of my Unsullied friends, as are most of the millions of fellow book-readers, or you’d all be just as Sullied as the rest of us. :)

    * [exception--trolls]
    ** [see above]
    *** [see above the above]

  45. wunwun
    Posted May 4, 2014 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    I am a “fresh” Sullied,

    I don’t understand the issue here,
    D&D only turned rumors from the books
    into facts on screen.

    Why is that so bad for other Sullied???

    It is just a way of showing things different
    it is still same information as in the books.

    Not that i wasn’t surprised, but really it kept
    me thinking and i remembered reading about these rumors,
    i liked it sort of mindgame bonus not a spoiler.

    ;)

  46. Arya Dunyett
    Posted May 4, 2014 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    Thank you, Oz, for wearing our shoes and walking a mile as a Sullied. We love your empathy.

    And I completely understand your obsession with Lysa and her LadyBumps. You’re perhaps hoping that she’ll require the draining of her radiators by others in her court. In George’s World, it could happen.

    I love your quirky spin on the series. Good work!


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