Game of Owns: Lifting the Vale
By WiC Staff on in Podcast.

Episode 216 – Lifting the Vale

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Reaching the halfway point in Game of Thrones Season 4, the hosts of GOO meet to discuss “First of His Name”.


Discussion Topics

Why we are here
Lysa and Petyr
Two sides of the same coin
Trouble in the Eyrie
Visiting the Judges
Mentions of Braavos
Needle practice
Brienne’s new squire
The Meereenese Knot
Owns of the Week


31 Comments

  1. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted May 6, 2014 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    Hodor… gets my Own for putting a bloody twist on the Vader strangle!

  2. jon snow
    Posted May 6, 2014 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    hodor freedom :-D

  3. Renly's Peach
    Posted May 6, 2014 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    Oh look, Eric completely missed the Varys/Illyrio connection. Why am I not shocked.

    Please keep this Kate girl around. She’s actually paying attention.

  4. John M W
    Posted May 6, 2014 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    Okay, so am I misremembering things or did the takeover of Meereen not take as long in the books as what Micah and Kate are inferring? Not to mention GRRM’s “Meereenese Knot” concerned the content that eventually ended up in A Dance With Dragons, not A Storm of Swords.

  5. Renly's Peach
    Posted May 6, 2014 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    John M W,

    The “siege” of Meereen literally takes up only one chapter. Her fifth one, which is when Belwas fights the champion and all that nonsense. By her sixth one, she’s already sitting atop the pyramid.

  6. FictionIsntReal
    Posted May 6, 2014 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    If Lysa & Peter were behind Jon’s death, does that mean the late Ser Hugh had nothing to do with it?

    I don’t remember anything about dragon eggs when Varys spoke with Illyrio. I thought they came from Asshai, and nobody believed they would contain actually viable dragons. Also, what was the deal with the wine-merchant assassin? If Jorah hadn’t switched sides Dany would have died. Although maybe Varys wanted Drogo to invade for revenge of said assassination.

    I didn’t think Brienne was really much of a dick. She didn’t want to take on a squire, and he was being more hindrance than help. Her “sucking up to highborns” is actually in accordance with knightly norms of respect toward one’s liege lords.

  7. No One
    Posted May 6, 2014 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    They probably should have mentioned GRRM’s criticism about Tolkien when Tolkien wrote “…and Aragorn ruled wisely for 500 years.” (Just paraphrasing, I don’t remember the exact quote)

    GRRM loves Tolkien, but he is annoyed that so many authors pretend that heroic people can just “rule wisely” as if it is easy to do so long as you are a good person. This part of the story is where Dany gets to try her hand at ruling wisely. Fans of the story may not like it but that doesn’t mean he is just stalling. From his criticisms about Tolkien, I’ve always suspected that this part of his story was something he wanted to do from the beginning.

  8. cx4500
    Posted May 6, 2014 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    As others have mentioned, the actual siege of Meereen is very brief in the books (just one chapter). “The Meereenese Knot” refers to Dany’s (and other characters’ converging on Meereen) plotline in A Dance with Dragons. In fact I think the “I will rule” line is her last in her last chapter of A Storm of Swords, so theoretically the show isn’t stalling and is going to move into ADwD territory very soon.

  9. John M W
    Posted May 6, 2014 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

    Renly’s Peach:
    John M W,

    The “siege” of Meereen literally takes up only one chapter. Her fifth one, which is when Belwas fights the champion and all that nonsense. By her sixth one, she’s already sitting atop the pyramid.

    That’s what I thought. Can’t believe Micah didn’t clarify that. Hilarious that Eric’s musing about the show stretching out Dany in Meereen when it’s actually the exact opposite (though totally not his fault).

  10. Kate
    Posted May 6, 2014 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    John M W,

    You’re totally right! I’m getting my Meereens mixed. A classic tragedy. Deepest apologies. I didn’t reread the books before watching this season so I could watch it with fresh eyes. Thanks for calling me out on my bs. :)

  11. John M W
    Posted May 6, 2014 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

    Kate,

    No problem, Kate! :) I actually wasn’t sure at first if I was the one misremembering or not. ;) I’ve actually just started rereading A Storm of Swords right now for the first time since 2011 (which was my first time through the books). So no worries. :)

    P.S. I’ve loved your contributions to the show. Keep up the great work! :)

  12. Borden
    Posted May 6, 2014 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    Kate,

    Dany was actually given her dragon eggs in episode 1 as a wedding present from Illyrio. Illyrio and Varys do not meet until episode 5. They discuss that the Wolf and the Lion are at each other’s throat too soon, not giving enough time for Dany to come over with Khal Drogo. Both events occur almost identically in the books. Otherwise, you were exactly right about Illyrio and Varys working together.
    PS: I’m enjoying there being a female voice on the show again.

  13. House Mormont
    Posted May 6, 2014 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    FictionIsntReal: If Lysa & Peter were behind Jon’s death, does that mean the late Ser Hugh had nothing to do with it?

    Yes, Ser Hugh of the Vale did not give the poison to Jon, Varys just sung that song to Ned to cause chaos I think

    Pycelle’s still guilty for not helping him though

    FictionIsntReal: Although maybe Varys wanted Drogo to invade for revenge of said assassination.

    Dany and Rakharo were already not buying it, it was a reeeeally obvious assassination attempt
    I was thinking about this the other day and it just so happened to conveniently convince Khal Drogo to go and get the Iron Throne for Dany and her son… as before that he didn’t want any more talk of iron chairs, so I don’t think that’s a coincidence

  14. Falcon
    Posted May 6, 2014 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    Came to post about no one correcting Eric and letting him think the show was making up stuff for Dany and I see others already have! Yeah, this is exactly as it happens in the books, she chooses to stay in Meereen and the other cities fall back into chaos. If anything, the show is charging forward with her story not making stuff up to stall it.

  15. Soopa Doop
    Posted May 6, 2014 at 10:53 pm | Permalink

    Knew I could count on GOO to go over Jon’s killer in depth as other shows aren’t giving it as much thought as it deserves.

    I compare my reaction to the reveal to the climatic moment of a fight in those samurai and karate films. When two opposing fighters run towards each other with weapons in hand and come into contact with one another. The two warriors then end up on opposite sides again and you think they may have cancelled each other out until one of them collapses and dies. The hit was so quick that the warrior’s body couldn’t react quickly enough until the body stopped moving then died. My brain was that dead fighter.

    I was watching the scene thinking there was going to be some small exposition before moving on until Lysa mentioned what she had done and I heard the words, but it took my brain a few seconds to process. Then, it exploded.

    Don’t know if you guys noticed, but Mr. Game of Thrones, Baelish was in charge of the Lannisters’ finances and he’s the reason why they are in debt to The Ironbank. He’s totally responsible for the fall of the Starks, but if the Ironbank get involved with Stannis, it could be the end of the Lannisters as well. We’ll be able to look back to when Baelish was Master of Coin and see the seeds being planted for the end of the Lannisters.

    My prediction to the possible foreshadowing of Robin throwing that gift away is one of two things. Either Petr is going down because Lysa’s jealousy gets the best of her and she sends him down. Baelish may have reached the peak of his story and it could be the way to wrap him up as a character and leave on a high note now that we know what he planned. Another possible scenario is Baelish sends Robin out that door since he doesn’t enjoy crazy princes who are unpredictable.
    How ironic that Robin would say, ” I want to see the little man fly” and now he can be considered a little man. I don’t see Littlefinger handing Winterfell over to Lysa’s son. Lysa isn’t in the passenger’s seat with Baelish, she’s the next bump in the road Baelish will drive over to his destination.

  16. Maria
    Posted May 7, 2014 at 12:26 am | Permalink

    NOO! I was listening to this webcast, inocent, and heard a BIG SPOILER on the first minutes! NOOOOO

  17. gisizzlah
    Posted May 7, 2014 at 12:27 am | Permalink

    I think it was a bit spoilery to mention Illyrio and Varys… cuz i think that moment from S1 was only obvious to book readers because it was not clear in the show…

    Baelish wanted to see the fall of House Stark for ultimate revenge and he tried to get Cat out of it before everything went down but she didnt go with him. Doubtful that he would take vengence on the Freys for Cat’s death because he has moved on to Sansa…

    With the scene with Cersei and Tywin… his motivation was cement to cersei why hers and Tomen’s marriages to the tyrells are important because i guess he thought she was gonna fight him on it again…

    love the Dowton Abbey s/o

  18. Lady smallfoot
    Posted May 7, 2014 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    gisizzlah:
    I think it was a bit spoilery to mention Illyrio and Varys… cuz i think that moment from S1 was only obvious to book readers because it was not clear in the show…

    On the contrary; it was not clear in the books (confused Arya POV) but clearly shown in the show.

  19. haltwhogoesthere
    Posted May 7, 2014 at 12:53 am | Permalink

    Lady smallfoot,

    Yes, I read the books after watching season 2 and I remember I recognized Ilyrio’s voice. In the books, I think it only says that the guy was really fat, with a forked beard.

  20. Valyrian Walker
    Posted May 7, 2014 at 2:54 am | Permalink

    Again why are the events about Bran and this time the visions of Jojen not being discussed. Jojen’s hand on fire. I know you guys have discussed Bran’s visions in a previous episode but didn’t go deeper when one of the vision came out in episode 4 with the White walker & the baby. The ice vision from Bran’s is what I mean. I would love to hear more being discussed on that front. and what you guys think whether are we gonna see some more of Bran’s visions unfold in this season?

    that being said.. I loved the energy in this episode. Kudos to everyone and specially Kate for bringing such great energy in each episode. She’s a keeper. When Kate is not around the energy levels are like 75% but when she’s there its like 300%

  21. Valyrian Walker
    Posted May 7, 2014 at 5:24 am | Permalink

    Kate,

    When you were discussing regarding the 2 sides to the same coin (BTW loved your take and the most interesting take) and mentioned the part where Varys is discussing with Ilyrio which Arya hears. The important part that you missed is that the wedding of Drogo & Dany had already taken place and the conversation that they were having was regards with tension between the Lannisters & Starks. What Ilyrio had problems with was that it had started too soon because Drogo was not ready to march towards westeros at that point. Obviously now that we know that it was all orchestrated by Baelish. Hell they both didn’t even know the eggs were ever going to hatch since Ilyrio does mention that they’ve been turned into stone while giving it to Dany at her wedding.

    One more thing, I think you are 100% correct about Varys being the one who serves is during that same conversation when Ilyrio mentions to get the new hand (Ned) killed to which he refuses because he knew that Ned was unlike any other men.

    The best podcast so far.

    And the best thing about the show is that they’ve placed all these small details starting from the beginning. Hence, if someone feels the episodes of prior season a little boring will be forced to go back else he will miss the reference. And it’s a good thing that D&D are not doing flashbacks. If you missed it, it’s gone and thats why you gotta pay attention. The things being mentioned seem to be going slow at times but they will pay off in a very huge way towards the end. that’s my take.

  22. Valyrian Walker
    Posted May 7, 2014 at 5:46 am | Permalink

    there’s a lot of small small things that have been placed in the show from the beginning an example: sam finding the cloak with the Dragon glass and the Horn and he does mention that it’s a night watch’s cloak which is again interesting cause who knows maybe that cloak was placed by one of the night’s watch after the previous war between the white walkers and the men of the north. what I’m guessing is that scene takes about 2-3 minutes or maybe more of an episode that might seem not required but it may very well pay off in a huge way. Some people have their theories on how the Horn will be used in future, also I know some people didn’t notice the horn along with the Dragon glass but it was there.

  23. Chickenduck
    Posted May 7, 2014 at 6:11 am | Permalink

    Valyrian Walker:
    Again why are the events about Bran and this time the visions of Jojen not being discussed. Jojen’s hand on fire. I know you guys have discussed Bran’s visions in a previous episode but didn’t go deeper when one of the vision came out in episode 4 with the White walker & the baby. The ice vision from Bran’s is what I mean. I would love to hear more being discussed on that front. and what you guys think whether are we gonna see some more of Bran’s visions unfold in this season?

    Didn’t they say that’d be the subject of Friday’s podcast?

  24. Roberta
    Posted May 7, 2014 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    I like the Kate addition to the podcast. Her insights are very welcome. She was spot on in many respects and I especially liked the two sides of the same coin analogy. One of your best so far, not as good as the Danny in the House of the Undieing but right up there.

  25. Micah
    Posted May 7, 2014 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    Chickenduck,

    Yes, we will be discussing Bran on Friday… as mentioned in Monday’s episode.

  26. Just a Random
    Posted May 7, 2014 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    Really strong podcast. Loved it.

  27. Lyanna Mormont
    Posted May 7, 2014 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    Cersei owned everything with “Everywhere in the world, they hurt little girls.”

    And I know it was a desperate situation for Bran, but… One does not simply warg into Hodor. The Society for Ethical Treatment of Hodors objects.

  28. Interior Bannisters
    Posted May 7, 2014 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    If I am not mistaken, in the Books, Dany plans the siege of Meereen with her advisers, but then cuts straight to after the siege is successful. The important part is not the siege itself, but Dany’s actions towards the slavers. Her choices as a ruler are far more important.

  29. Gatehouse Ami
    Posted May 7, 2014 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

    #1 J-OWN-jen: “I saw you die tonight.”
    #2 Cersei: “Everywhere in the world they hurt little girls… .”

  30. Craster's 7th Son
    Posted May 8, 2014 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    Kate is a welcome addition to this podcast. Her analysis is really good and would make any English Lit prof proud.

    I do have to say that she’s wrong about the reveal from Lysa in this episode. This was not how it was revealed in the books at all. In the Books Lysa spouted it in a fit of anger and it dropped like a bomb on the reader. The show really made a mess of this reveal in my opinion, and it was clunky at best.

  31. Valyrian Walker
    Posted May 8, 2014 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    Micah,

    This video was inspired after listening to some thoughts from Kate
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZJJBNJa5b0

    This episode is the best one so far till date in my opinion.


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