Unsullied Recap, Game of Thrones Season 4, Episode 8 – The Mountain and the Viper
By Oz of Thrones on in Recap.

Spoiler note: The discussion in this post is primarily for non-book readers (book fans can discuss the show here). We ask that all Sullied book-readers refrain from posting spoilers in the comments here, veiled or otherwise. This show is best viewed without knowing all the surprises beforehand or afterwards, so please be respectful of your fellow fans. Thank you!

Oz of Thrones: If there was any doubt in anyone’s mind about whether or not I am truly Unsullied, please go read Sunday’s Looking Forward.  You have permission to laugh your ass off.

Greetings fellow WiC/GoT lovers.  Once again, the creator and show runners have most of us shaking our heads in disbelief and in regards to new characters, begging the question, “why even bother?”.

But we already know the answer…

As we have discussed many times before, we become invested in these personas.  The show has mostly been exceptional in getting us emotionally involved with the players in this game. Oberyn was still new enough that most of us didn’t expect to lose him, even as we are all well aware that no one is safe here.  Ever.

But this episode wasn’t just about a great battle between two experienced fighters.  It was full of turning points for many important characters, none of which needs to be overlooked.

The Burping Boob and Beer Bar (or the Triple B as the locals know it) is about what you would expect in a family friendly place like Mole’s Town.  Sam’s decision to take Gilly there looked horribly unwise at this point.  Luckily, and contrary to how many of us felt earlier in the season, Ygritte does have at least some compassion for mother and child (but not farmer fathers).   I wonder if this was an attempt by D&D to win the viewers back to caring about Ygritte because of events to come at the Wall?

Of course Sam feels understandable guilt.  But the big story is that the Wildlings are moving in quickly.

Last night, millions of men worldwide rejoiced as Missandei was depicted fully nude.  Admittedly, the sight was impressive (and I say this with the utmost respect… there should be nothing wrong with recognizing and complimenting beauty.  So I did.)  It was so impressive that even the Unsullied Grey Worm was impacted.  I’m not sure exactly what the point is of this mutual respect/admiration between Greyandei is headed.  Maybe it is to show that the Unsullied do have feelings and emotions that contradict what we were told by Kraznys and others.  We shall see.

The Ramsay pep talk with Reek before approaching the Moat was exceptional. But as good as it was, it pales to Alfie’s acting as he enters the gates and begins losing it when the garrison in charge calls BS on who he is and his intent.  The game plan of Ramsay for Theon was not exactly what I was expecting.  My thoughts were that Theon would be sent in acting as if he had an order from Balon for his men to all come home.  Then again, I guess it’s hard to hide the army of Bolton soldiers that were ready for battle if things went sour.  Regardless of the plot, and thanks to an ax to the head, the goal was attained.

Then finally, we had a Roose sighting!  I thought that Roose’s acceptance of Ramsay as no longer being a bastard was powerful, even as Iwan Rheon looked especially nutso as he bowed before his father.  But I loved the size and scale of the North being put into perspective as Roose and Ramsay stood on the hill and the numbers accompanying the Bolton army were shown.  Roose is a force to be reckoned with and Ramsay had a turning point.

Littlefinger is facing the music for the death of my dear Lysa rather quickly.  The questioning is just another chapter of Baelish being Baelish until Sansa enters.  And then, as fast as an asshole can push a sad woman out of a moon door, Sansa Stark became a player in the game.  And for the first time in recent memory, I am excited about her story line.

After Baelish is cleared, he quickly turns to making sure the other families in the Vale stand against the Lannisters and begins to plant seeds for the exit of young Robin.  It is clear that Petyr is moving forward with his plan.  Yet it is unclear exactly what his next move will be.   But the most important part is that Sansa somehow managed to become a woman in one episode.  Yes, her transformation has been evolving through all she has endured.  But tonight, Sansa Stark reached a turning point.

Selmy receives a letter from the Hand of the King and this episode ends up being the one that Jorah fans have been dreading for some time.  I’ve got mixed emotions on the scene where he goes to face the charges with Dany.  First off, I think it was one of Emilia’s better acting scenes.  It didn’t feel over-acted or forced as she is sometimes prone to do.

Having said that, I found it somewhat unlikely that as much as Jorah has done for her in the past, she wouldn’t give him more a of a chance to explain exactly how all of the events transpired.  This is the guy who was her most trusted adviser since the beginning and she wasted no time in sending him packing.  We could also argue that he was lucky to walk out with his head still attached, and such an argument would be justified.  Still, it came across to me at least a little abrupt.

Jorah most definitely reached a turning point, and for him, now what?

I got one wish from my Looking Forward post.  The Stark and the Hound finally make it to a destination only to find out that Aunt Lysa is gone.  And Arya loses it, and Ozzette and I lost it with her and laughed through half of the Tyrion and Jaime scene.  I do hope that Arya and Sandor don’t simply just turn around and leave.  But this wouldn’t be the first time Arya has been this close to family and fails to reunite with one of them.  I think the only thing that could have made this scene better is if the Hound started laughing uncontrollably.

Following the aforementioned and potentially last brotherhood scene between Tyrion and Jaime, it was combat time. And the underdog got too cocky.  As I mentioned yesterday, the hardest concept for me to grasp is how this show and story often times bring in these phenomenal characters that are so well written and translated on screen only to have them die horrible, untimely deaths.  I felt this way even more so about Oberyn.

GoT continues to do what it does so well… it makes us believe that these intriguing entertaining characters will survive at least a reasonable amount of time before meeting their demise.  Yes, we should know better by now.  But it still doesn’t minimize the shock.

The battle scene lived up to the hype (although I would have been fine with it lasting a little longer).  They did a great job selling the point that the Mountain was finished, for if it were any other man they surely would have been.  But this is the Mountain, and as bad as Oberyn wanted Gregor to admit his guilt concerning the rape and murder of his sister, it goes without saying he would have been much better off twisting the spear a few times and seeing some guts exposed.

But damn… this may have easily been the most gruesome scene in the series and the only one that Ozzette hasn’t witnessed (she still has her eyes covered).

Also a bit odd was the fact that the show finally referred to him as the Red Viper on the same episode he was exterminated.

This Holy Shit moment brought to you in part by the “Game of Thrones Death Company”.  Nobody kills you better than we do. 

Episode 408 Personal Awards

Favorite Scene:  Loved the whole episode. It will be remembered for the battle scene, but there were many here that should not be forgotten.
Favorite Quote #1:  “You’re going to fight that?”

Favorite Quote #2:   “I’m going to kill that.”

Ow, That Shit Hurts Award:  The remains of Oberyn’s head (although the first fully flayed man we’ve seen at the hand of the Boltons deserves mention).

Final Thoughts:  Needless to say, it did not go down as a man expected.  But in Thrones it hardly ever does.  The obvious question now is does Tyrion somehow survive his sentence?  I mentioned yesterday that I just couldn’t envision the show taking out both Tyrion and Oberyn.  I courteously request that this statement be retracted.  For without doubt, a man has been wrong before.

How did you guys feel about it?  Sound off and let’s chat it up.

Holla…. Everyone is welcome.

BUT NO SPOILERS HERE!  NO HINTS! NO BOOK RELATED DISCUSSION! 

Look me up in the twittersphere @ozofthrones where we can discuss crushed heads of cool people and all things Thrones related (or anything else interesting that might pop).

I’ll be back Friday or Saturday for Looking Forward and the tradition of the Epic 9’s. For now, I’m headed to the Triple B for cocktails.

Until then, have a great week, and may there always be peace in your realm. –Oz

“Unbowed.  Unbent.  Unsullied.”

PLEASE BE MINDFUL OF THE UNSULLIED… Do not post spoilers in this comment thread!


174 Comments

  1. Bodie
    Posted June 1, 2014 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

    Red Viper!

  2. EverydayI'mHodoring
    Posted June 1, 2014 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

    Geezer H. Butler, what an ending. I instinctively had to look away when the Red Viper got his head caved in, and I’m not usually one to do so. Probably the only few seconds of GoT I’ve missed since the beginning.

  3. longlivetheviper
    Posted June 1, 2014 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    THE VIPER HAD IT!!!!!!!!! So brutal to watch but amazing scene at the same time

  4. Razor Catch Prey
    Posted June 1, 2014 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    As a book reader I really wish I could have watched some unsullied faces during that fight. Maybe Martin envisioned that death as being that graphic, but I sure didn’t.

  5. Reynardd the Fox
    Posted June 1, 2014 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

    What. An. Episode.

  6. kriyu
    Posted June 1, 2014 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    Razor Catch Prey,

    How could not have imagined oberons head getting caved in with one punch graphic?

  7. The Red Viper
    Posted June 1, 2014 at 11:25 pm | Permalink

    I’ve never posted here before but could not resist after tonight’s episode. Rather than writing paragraphs I have ranked several noteworthy scenes in tonight’s episode.

    Most important scene: Snow gets a new name. Not because Ramsey is carrying the name Bolton – the name is not that important anyways.
    This seems to carry some weight because Ramsey is now free to do as he would like without carrying the weight of proving himself to his father. This reminds me of when my own father went out of town when I was a boy and said “you are in charge of the house this weekend while we are away.” This enabled me to have a party leaving many household items in ruins (including the Chinese fighter fish). I’d love to say that the most important scene is the betrayal across the Narrow Sea but I can’t imagine that the Dragons really need two old white guys where one will do fine.

    Least important scene: The chick from North of the wall – please let her die. The “what do they cut” scene did seem quite pointless but I guess it might lead somewhere.

    Best scene: Red Viper demolishes The Mountain. This scene is far better than most good vs. bad scenes in major movies. “Have they told you who I am?” Mini-Stark laughing at the bad news in the Vale was a close second.

    Worst scene: Red Viper gets too close to his prey. I admit that this is really the same scene as that which I nominated for the best scene. However, the series lost possibly the best character that we have seen so far. I couldn’t help thinking – “shit he could have killed so many Lanisters!”

  8. TOIVA
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:05 am | Permalink

    It’s too soon to post any real thoughts. But that was possibly the most horrifying thing I’ve seen on TV. Certainly the most horrifying from Game of Thrones.

    I’m still not far from maniacal laughts (a la Arya) or from collapsing into depression and crazyness and becoming Reek 2.0. That’s how powerful the scene was…

  9. Eric
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:10 am | Permalink

    As a book reader, I can tell you that knowing about it didn’t make it any less shocking… I just about cursed GRRM when I read it. And I very nearly did it again when I watched it. It is just so much more shocking when you actually see it happen rather than just picture it. Even up to the point it happened, I was hoping for a deviation from the book…

  10. I stayed up till 5AM for this
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:17 am | Permalink

    I forgot the first and most important rule of watching game of thrones, never trust George.R.R Martin.

  11. No one
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:22 am | Permalink

    Eric,

    As a book reader, it’s much more nerve wracking since you know what’s going to happen.

  12. M is for Mountaincide
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:34 am | Permalink

    Just speculation but I think the reason Oberyn didn’t go for the kill was because he knew he already doomed the Mountain to death (via poison) and, in his mind, could take a less pressing approach and get the info he really wanted: a confession on who ordered his sister’s death.

    Two reasons I’m lead to this: 1) Arya’s conversation with the Hound about using poison “or a chicken bone” to get the job done and 2) because the scene setup was similar to the wedding where The Idiot King met his end. The squire was really working to polish the spear right in the foreground as Tyrion entered. It seemed oddly placed, like Sansa’s necklace fondle at the wedding.

    Again, above is just a guess; But what happens to a trial by duel if both combatants die? An out for Tyrion?

  13. Kay
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:41 am | Permalink

    Awesome episode, and not just the big fight at the end. I am horribly disappointed of course that this is the end of Oberyn (and Pedro Pascal) while Tywin still lives on. But I can’t help but feel that fortunes will be changing soon – there was a certain expression on Tywin’s face at the end that showed he felt someone just walk over his grave. I want more Dornishmen and women to arrive at KL soon. Avenge Oberyn’s death. Make Cersei suffer.
    I loved the Sansa and Baelish parts. It felt almost as if a future Lord Baelish (err…. Lady) was being born in Sansa’s transformation. Is this how a really good Player is born? She played those Lords and Lady so, so well.
    I very much enjoyed the Meereen parts too. Sad for Jorah, but why didn’t he come clean long before now?

  14. FictionIsntReal
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 1:32 am | Permalink

    EverydayI’mHodoring: Geezer H. Butler

    Props for the Sabbath reference.

  15. Kay
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 1:47 am | Permalink

    Sansa at the end = birth of a future Littlefinger-type character? The Player of Players? Certainly looked like that.

    RIP Oberyn. Very, very sad to see this awesome character go so soon. But given how truly awesome he was, I now want to see tons of people come from Dorne and get revenge. Starting with Tywin Lannister, the root of all evil. I want that man to die the most painful of deaths. Cersei next.

    Why couldn’t Jorah just say he was sorry for what he had done and ask for mercy?

  16. Ann Mallimaci
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 2:05 am | Permalink

    I think Marjorie is going to save tyrion by telling the truth that her grandmother killed Geoffrey and she ends up with her grandmothers money! Poor prince he had the win he should have finished the job if they kill tyrion off the show will be a bore love his character! Sonsa has her own agenda she will soon turn scandalous I’m betting on that arya poor ayra when are they ever going to reunite her with one of her family members? She’s always so close… Then gets a big f@%# u at the end love this show if they ever end it I will cry but all good things come to an end!

  17. King of the Ashes
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 2:25 am | Permalink

    After the Red Wedding i thought that i had endured the worst of it and that nothing could hurt me again… but Oberyn’s death still stabbed me when i felt most vulnerable. Besides that, there are so many wins (or owns) in this episode:

    Ygritte sparing Gilly and little Sam
    Melisandre and Grey Worm
    and even Arya laughing at her continued series of unfortunate events.

    i think that Dany has been making very poor decisions and i think that her sending Jorah away is going to come back to bite her. I don’t think that that was the right move.
    …. and how can i forget Sansa finally becoming an active player in her own destiny. although i don’t like how littlefinger looks at her. creeper.

  18. The Summer Islander
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 2:27 am | Permalink

    As one of the sullied I continually convince myself that I’m emotionally prepared for episodes like these knowing full well what will happen. Yet every season I end up reliving the same emotional trauma the books put me through.

    Damn you D&D. I’m supposed to be able to handle this!

  19. TT
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 2:59 am | Permalink

    Gods it hurt that last part. He had it dammit! It was all set up for maximum hurt, Oberyn being so likeable and all, taking it up for the “good guy”. And then that happens. I really wonder where this is going to end. Are we still going to have something/someone to cheer on?

  20. Ozzyosk
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 3:00 am | Permalink

    It was indeed one of the craziest turn of events I seen since the red wedding , Red Viper was truly an amazing character , Though new, somehow worked his way into my favs, Such a bitch slap to die like that in the name and honor of fighting for your murdered raped sister, but hey, GoT don’t play around, besides I had a little thought that hit me during the intense concentration I was having mid-duel , the thought said, (Wait…..If anybody is going to kill the Mountain .. it’s going to be the Hound) at this moment I kid you not, poor Oberyn was swept by his ankle because he got too close with his righteous justice, and the mountain living up too his standards basically lifted him off the ground with one hand and literally ended him with one punch by the other hand (“ended” meaning. Breaking his face.) , followed by maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe a liiiiiiiiiiittle overkill……. but who knows…….. in this amazing show , We’ve all seen some crazy shiznit, and I’m craving for more, I never posted on a forum about a show . Ever.. Usually keep the amazement to myself , But this certain episode…. season 4 episode muthafuc**n 8 . ,,,,, I literally googled a website where people are talking about it .(Lolz cause it’s true) ) it’s like IM GOING INSANE I NEED TO LET PEOPLE KNOW HOW I FEEEEEEEEEEEL!!!!!!!

  21. King of the Ashes
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 3:09 am | Permalink

    Ozzyosk,

    you do realize that the mountain is dead right. Oberyn did indeed kill him.. they both died. Oberyn just died first

  22. Faceless
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 3:25 am | Permalink

    I am shocked and you think I’m easily shocked? The things he did didn’t shock me, this did. The Red Wedding did, but this hit me the worst. My heart pounded all the way from the cell til the end. It pounded for 30 more minutes after that. Always my favourite characters, I never loved a character as much as I did Oberyn. How can I deal with this? There better be a character to fill the hole.

  23. Dogmayor
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 3:38 am | Permalink

    TT,

    Yes, and you will probably be surprised by who it is, given the way the show has handled the character so far.

  24. good will always triumph?
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 4:22 am | Permalink

    Ozzyosk,

    OMFG THAT’S EXACTLY HOW I FEEL, i need to motherfkn vent this craycray shit out, WTF red viper had it mannn he had it, oh wait that’s right, the good guys never win >< ARGH WHYYYWHYY

  25. Some Guy replying to that other guy
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 4:29 am | Permalink

    TOIVA,

    Hey Tovia, doubt you are going to see this, but yeah. Here’s my thoughts onto why she was laughing. She says that the only God she worship is death and well death seems to be following her everywhere she goes. She laughs at the fact that where ever the hound takes her to receive his mighty sum, he just arrive a little too late. The irony of it.

  26. Gabriel David Ross
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 4:38 am | Permalink

    Heartbroken after this episode. I should have known this was coming. Game of Thrones really knows how to stick the knife in.

  27. Cersei's Cunt
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 4:45 am | Permalink

    Heh!

  28. TT
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 5:04 am | Permalink

    So… The verdict on Tyrion was spoken, he is sentenced to death. Will he be able to wriggle himself out of this? Or will his brother pull some stunt or maybe plea for mercy (> Wall)? What a cliffhanger.

  29. Barristan Hill
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 5:46 am | Permalink

    All hail the Dark Lady, Sansauron. One Lemon Cake to rule them all.

  30. Amanda M
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 6:52 am | Permalink

    Question for my Ubsullied friends out there — I may have been biased because I knew gwar was coming, but did anyone else feel this creeping, unpleasant tension when The Mountain was on the ground and Oberyn was demanding the confession?

    Tyrion and Jaime were exchanging these hesitantly-hopeful looks that seemed to say “Okay, this looks good… But why isn’t he killing him yet?” And even Ellaria looked nervous/unsure, if I recall correctly. Something about the cuts to These characters, coupled with the dead-silence (apart from Oberyn’s voice) just seemed to give the sense that something bad was about to happen. I thought it was brilliant, but I really just want to know if it was all in my head haha

  31. Amanda M
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    (Apologies — my phone messed up some of the words in my previous comment, and the site isn’t letting me edit for some reason :( Hopefully you knew what I meant though haha)

  32. Bodo Temote
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    OK, I seriously need to find a support group after watching that episode. I have not read the books, but was I the only one with this sense of dread as we went through the hour, knowing the fight was coming. And this is the GOT we’re talking about. There was no way it was going to end well.

    I will now watch GOT just to see Tywin and Cersei Lannister get what’s coming to them. May it be slow, agonizing and very very painful. If this series ends with both of them outliving everyone else I’m going to lose it.

    Poor Jorah. Dany is becoming one of the most irritating characters for me so sad to see what happened to him. I hope he returns to Westeros and tells everyone what is coming so they can slap her down with Jorah leading the way.

    Ygritte. Hate that woman so was surprised to see she some sort of quality that would make us like her a bit. Would love to see Ghost jump her and rip out her neck the next time she starts to say “you know nothing Jo….”

    Ayra has clearly lost it. She needs to get away from the Hound if she is going to ever resemble “normal” again but she may be too far gone.

    So…Sansa is going to play Littlefinger’s game eh? This just got very interesting. She has been such a worthless character until now. Now all she needs to do is shove someone out the moondoor herself and I’ll be joining the Sansa fanclub.

    Oberyn. Oh Oberyn. You were one of the coolest characters on the show. Is this going to start a Martell-Lannister war? That oughta be good. But that last scene is enough to send me into therapy. I’m going to miss him. May the other Martells be as cool as him.

    Where the freak is Stannis?! He is THE MAN who should be sitting on the throne but all he’s done this season is apply for a bank loan. He needs to do something BIG sometime during the last two episodes or become forgotten.

    So what’s the deal at THE WALL? Are there like 20 of the Night’s Watch and a gazillion wildings? The numbers are hazy for me so it’s hard to figure out just how big a mess the Blacks are in.

    What an awesome awesome episode. After the season ends, I will be reading all of the books out so far before next season starts. I can’t resist it any longer.

  33. Bodo Temote
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    Amanda M:
    Question for my Ubsullied friends out there — I may have been biased because I knew gwar was coming, but did anyone else feel this creeping, unpleasant tension when The Mountain was on the ground and Oberyn was demanding the confession?

    Tyrion and Jaime were exchanging these hesitantly-hopeful looks that seemed to say “Okay, this looks good… But why isn’t he killing him yet?” And even Ellaria looked nervous/unsure, if I recall correctly. Something about the cuts to These characters, coupled with the dead-silence (apart from Oberyn’s voice) just seemed to give the sense that something bad was about to happen. I thought it was brilliant, but I really just want to know if it was all in my head haha

    No, I was thinking it too. There was just a sense of dread from the time the scene started. It was going to well. Nothing goes that well in GOT. Expect the unpopular surprise.

  34. Disco
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    Even knowing (fearing) what was coming, that was brutal. Cried out and covered my mouth in shock. Oh Oberyn, you will be missed.

  35. Gilly Stark Snow
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    As a non book reader, I was glad to see Gilly and Sam still alive and spared by the iron princess. To bad for the Red Viper, what a way to go, blinded and headless into the grave.
    I only hope Tryion doesn’t go next, that would really break my heart because he is the only likeable Lannister.
    Will somebody please put Reek out of his misery?

  36. Dudro
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    I think at this point I would be more surprised if a character favorite lived through an important scene. I have not read the books yet, but it made sense that Tyrion would be facing certain death by the end of the season, but damn I am tired of getting excited for new characters just to see the Lanisters kill them. It seems to me that they are setting the stage for Jaime to jump ship with Tyrion in tow.

    wow, I look back at how many of the original cast of the show are now gone and what they have set up for the show’s future. This would never happen, but It would be amazing to have the show move forward in time say 10 years to see the rise of the Starks once again. But, now the Stark sisters are reunited, there will most likely be a hit placed on them by the Lanisters.

  37. BombjakCross
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    Barristan Hill: All hail the Dark Lady, Sansauron. One Lemon Cake to rule them all.

    ..THAT comment is AWESOME, (props!) and didn’t Sansa look great, all reborn as a Lady Of The Vale!

    I don’t usually comment here, but I read avidly; it’s so great to see other like-minds being as awed/ frustrated/ horrified as I am each week! I’m a book reader too, and even though I knew what was coming it STILL carved a hole in my chest. The thematic link between the beetle-crushing Lanister and Oberyn’s obsessive drive for vengeance and justice was nicely done too. Surely one of the most brutal moments of TV in recent times. It made me feel exactly the same as the first time I read it in the book, once again the show makers knock it outa the park. Great episode.

  38. TOIVA
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 8:50 am | Permalink

    Some Guy replying to that other guy,

    Yes, that pretty much deserves a maniacal laugh.

    Either way, I feel better now. Time for a rewatch.

  39. Dickey Madden
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    TOIVA,

    I’ve read the books, I’ve watched a lot of graphic shows. I agree…that could possibly be the most horrifying thing I’ve seen on TV. Actually, maybe last season’s Sons of Anarchy season finale ending…but if not, this was it.

  40. Another random guy
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    I have the urge to vent the frustration and shock from Oberyns’ death, it was both visually shocking and also a real bummer because I wanted him to win, both for his sake and for Tyrions’. It’s one of those times that you wish that a TV character could hear you scream at him “Finish him already and be safe you stupid MF!!!!”

  41. Razor Catch Prey
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    kriyu,

    Graphic, yes, but nothing like that.

  42. Alice
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    I was SOBBING when Dany sent Ser Jorah away. I love her, but I don’t think sendig him away was the best decision. And I definitely couldn’t handle Red Viper’s death. I really want to know what’s going to happen to Tyrion now. Is he going to die or will he find a way to stay alive a little while longer?

  43. Reynardd the Fox
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Amanda M,

    I was surprised. I knew it was possible and had a very heavy sense of dread going into the episode, but it actually shocked me when I was watching it. My wife (also unsullied) said after the show was over that she could tell it was going to happen because “he was talking too much”, kind of like in James Bond movies. There was just so much to process in this episode. I thought it was all rather well written, acted, and directed. Just a bit intense. I’ll have to watch it again.

  44. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Updated with recap! Lot’s of new commenters here today… Welcome to the Unsullied Army. You should hang out more often!

  45. Christian Delbove
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    M is for Mountaincide,

    spoilersssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

  46. Veltigar
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones:
    Updated with recap!Lot’s of new commenters here today…Welcome to the Unsullied Army.You should hang out more often!

    I told you the Mountain and Oberyn would have a dance battle, didn’t I? :p

    Django: Tell Jackson I’ll be waiting at the cemetary. Understand? There’s just the two of us now. I’ll be waiting and I’ll cast Mads Mikkelsen as Euron to help me!

  47. Daniel
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    I thought the discussion about the simple lannister was meant to mirror the mountains unexplainable urge to kill without remorse or reason.

  48. A Man Grown
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    Daniel,

    Or it’s the gods’ unexplainable urge to kill and do horrible things to people, with Orson representing the gods and the beetles representing the humanity of Westeros.

  49. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    Didn’t you also say no one dies?? :()

  50. gosensgo
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    UGH
    why!!!!!!!!
    I HATE THIS SHOW.
    Oberyn was becoming one of my favorites.
    FRIG, he was so close.
    TYWINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN I HATE YOU – I cant wait for the day that he is massacred, him and his crazy c$%&* daughter.
    Sorry all – Some anger remains.

    Great epi. I still love Dany. Can you blame her? SHe felt betrayed. Sometimes you make rash decisions when something slaps you in the face like that. After all, how does she know he wont do it again? YEs yes we all know this will come and bite her in the behind.
    Jorah. I love you. Hope to see you soon. Just happy and SHOCKED he wasn’t killed GRRM.

    Arya – Her laugh. Well. I loved that scene. Poor girl. We all know theyre gonna turn around and leave. why would they stay.
    And sansa, well lets just say she is now PLAYING the Game of thrones. you go girl.

    I swear, if someone else dies that I like this season, im done with this show.

    Finally – Did the mountain die? I thought he did… what happens when both combatants die?

  51. thisvthattv
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    Check out my video review/recap of this episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzEuph2ttIo

  52. Veltigar
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones:
    Veltigar,

    Didn’t you also say no one dies?? :()

    Well, Oberyn is clearly still alive ;) At the start of episode 9 he’ll just brush it off, get up and say “It is but a flesh wound”

    Now that’s going to be a shocker ;)

    A Man Grown:
    Daniel,

    Or it’s the gods’ unexplainable urge to kill and do horrible things to people, with Orson representing the gods and the beetles representing the humanity of Westeros.

    More like that the search for meaning is futile. Anyway, it was one of the worst monologues this series has ever had. Poorly written.

    Captain Kiesel: Steiner… is a myth. Men like him are our last hope to cast Mads Mikkelsen as Euron… and in that sense, he is a truly dangerous man.

  53. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    If there was any doubt in anyone’s mind about whether or not I am truly Unsullied, please go read Sunday’s Looking Forward. You have permission to laugh your ass off.

    Oh I did, trust me.

  54. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    Oh, I’m sure you did.
    (BTW, all hail King Robert).

  55. Just a Random
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    Why must all my favorite characters die?? Maybe I need to become a cersei and Tywin fan…

  56. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    Last night, millions of men worldwide rejoiced as Missandei was depicted fully nude. Admittedly, the sight was impressive (and I say this with the utmost respect… there should be nothing wrong with recognizing and complimenting beauty. So I did.)

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, Oz. Personally, the Mole’s Town whore belching “The Bear & the Maiden Fair” held my gaze.

    (jk) Missandei truly has made me reconsider my lewd thing for woolly mammoths.

    You must be in shock. First, crazypants and now this. Hang in there, ser!

  57. ASoIaF_Fan
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    Orson the dim-witted Lannister Cousin : if it’s not a wink against Orson Scott Card Homophobe extraordinaire who dissed the show without giving it a chance i don’t know what it is.
    But i chose to take it that way and that was awesome .

  58. Kay
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    Amanda M: Question for my Ubsullied friends out there — I may have been biased because I knew gwar was coming, but did anyone else feel this creeping, unpleasant tension when The Mountain was on the ground and Oberyn was demanding the confession?

    I did. I feel it was set up by those cuts to other characters and the uneasiness they were showing. At that point I just wanted Oberyn to stop talking and finish the job already. It was like the dead calm before a storm. But one just knew an explosion(!) was coming.

    Bodo Temote: Poor Jorah. Dany is becoming one of the most irritating characters for me so sad to see what happened to him. I hope he returns to Westeros and tells everyone what is coming so they can slap her down with Jorah leading the way.

    Awww…. poor, dear Jorah. It was just a tiny bit of spying for the people who had formerly killed most of her family – no big deal, Dany should be forever grateful to him. I hope poor, poor Jorah does return to Westeros and joins the Lannsisters, perhaps? Tywin and Cersei?
    In all honesty, Jorah has been rather boring this season. I was very glad that he is now separated from Daenerys. I hope to see something exciting for him and see how he responds to the banishment. This was an exciting turn of events for the characters in Essos.

  59. Bas
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    Is Sansa going to get plowed or what?

  60. SilverStormm
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    “Say her NAME!”

    RIP Prince Oberyn Martell The Red Viper of Dorne. You are missed. :’(

    “If there was any doubt in anyone’s mind about whether or not I am truly Unsullied, please go read Sunday’s Looking Forward. You have permission to laugh your ass off.”
    Now you know why I said I was looking forward to your recap Oz!

  61. Poor Ned's Head
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    Please don’t laugh. I didn’t get the whole Jorah/Dany thing. Afraid it went over my head. What did Jorah do in the past for him to get exiled? I guess I missed something really big way back in the beginning. I’m finding all of these hundreds of little sub-plots hard to follow sometimes. Is there a GOT for Dummies out there somewhere I can buy? LOL!

  62. Patchy Face
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    gosensgo,

    I think it was very unclear whether the Mountain was dead – though obviously mortally wounded.

  63. Patchy Face
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Poor Ned’s Head,

    There is a GoT for dummies – called A Song of Ice and Fire. Check it out!

    Really- if you watch S 1 carefully, you will see that Jorah was spying for Robert Baratheon (via Varys).

  64. Sylphic
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Great episode. Even knowing what was coming, holy cow – that was tough to watch! And I loved Sansa’s scenes, particularly the final one when she comes out in that dress with the dark feathers on the shoulders. Total transformation.

  65. mariamb
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    I love these posts. Intelligent and humorous but politely critical and questioning when the situation arises. A breath of fresh air on this site.

    Even though we know that no one is ever truly safe, we have to hope that there will be one that rises above. Sadly, that “one” was not Oberyn Martel. He may be gone but he will always have my heart.

    Like the Ozzette, my eyes are still covered. I doubt that I will ever be able to watch the last few minutes of the episode again.

    Now, off to give condolences to Ellaria.

  66. chris
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    From a book reader: Lots of fun watching Sansa develop into a player, and the realization over the past few episodes of just how much “playing” Littlefinger has been doing.
    Here’s an interesting point: If my recollection is correct, NOBODY uses the expression “game of thrones” anywhere in any of the books …until right around when Baelish gives Lysa her flying lessons and starts opening up to Sansa about his long game, which includes toying around with the pompous and self-serving, but eminently manipulable, lords and ladies of the Vale. I believe he may be the only character ever to talk specifically about playing… and trying to win… the “game of thrones.”

    Oh, and fun to hear Sansa mention Waymar Royce and his father passing through Winterfell en route to the Wall.
    Young Royce was the snooty and grouchy member of the Night’s Watch who encounters the undead wildlings and the White Walkers in the very very first scene of the series.

  67. Nikola S
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    Im unsullied and its official, I have joined all the book-readers that have had their moments of “I FU****G HATE GEORGE RR MARTIN! F YOU!!!”

    He really is a bas***d sometimes. Sorry for those who that offends but he truly is. This was the ultimate ruse of “Im giving you what you want, come here, come here…BAAM I cut your head off!” He was giving you the ultimate revenge and then he takes it away at the last second. Damn Im angry right now!!!!

    Im going to cool off….

  68. chris
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

    Patchy Face,

    I believe we see Ned learn that Jorah was spying and Ned was rather disgusted. ‘Course Ned had previously sentenced Jorah to death or to the Wall for slave trading.

  69. Reynardd the Fox
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    So much to process in this episode. I think that Sansa’s turn to “black” and the imagery of a bird must be related to the three-eyed raven that Bran sees in his visions. Does anyone else think so? I also think that there was a direct parallel between Grey Worm “wanting to see Missandei’s body” and Danny’s “not wanting to see Jorah’s body, dead or alive”. These parallels don’t seem to happen by accident. Have to watch it again to hear Tryion’s explanation of death and beetles. Given that we’ve had a dose of existentialism and Becket in the recent past, I suppose it’s more such commentary. (Bugs also seem so handy for Absurdest-style references.) I also think that “Orson Lannister” is more likely to be a call out to “Orson Welles” and the War of the Worlds than to Orson Scott Card. So, so much good stuff here.

  70. A Man Grown
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    chris,

    Actually in season 1, Cersei says to Ned “When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground.”

    Though if anyone has found a middle ground so far it’s Stannis. He certainly hasn’t won, and he certainly hasn’t died.

  71. Jared
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    So both Gwendoline Christie and Lupita Nyong’o have been cast in Episode VII? Oh HELL yes!

    Is too late for Sophie Turner, a.k.a. Darth Stark, the Dark Lady of the Sith to join them? I’m just saying …

    https://twitter.com/Mormegil84/status/473337557334626304

  72. Stardust
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    This may be stupid but can someone please explain the whole ‘Sansa emerging with a new, sexy dress and what looked like a brunette dye-job’ thing to me? I understand she is now ‘playing the game’ but what was with the appearance change?

  73. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

    chris: From a book reader: Lots of fun watching Sansa develop into a player, and the realization over the past few episodes of just how much “playing” Littlefinger has been doing.
    Here’s an interesting point: If my recollection is correct, NOBODY uses the expression “game of thrones” anywhere in any of the books …until right around when Baelish gives Lysa her flying lessons

    Not true. Three different people say it in the first book alone. But please don’t discuss the books at all in these Unsullied posts. Thank you.

  74. Fatio Corcyn
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

    ASoIaF_Fan:
    Orson the dim-witted Lannister Cousin : if it’s not a wink against Orson Scott Card Homophobe extraordinaire who dissed the show without giving it a chance i don’t know what it is.
    But i chose to take it that way and that was awesome .

    Now, THAT is a very nice catch indeed!

  75. Sergei Walankov
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Stardust, I’m thinking the idea is that Sansa is making herself look as the young Catelyn did, to put the seal on her ingratiating herself with Littlefinger.

  76. Evelyn
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    EverydayI’mHodoring,

    I know this is a great series but I have to call and end now, too many good guys getting killed. the villain to “hero” ratio is no good – it was fun though! farewell GoT!

  77. axia777
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    All I have to say is that I bet Conan Stevens(the original Mountain) wishes he stayed on the show now. Why? Because that last fight scene was more epic than all of the Hobbit movies put together.

    Barristan Hill:
    All hail the Dark Lady, Sansauron. One Lemon Cake to rule them all.

    Best quote on this site EVER. +1,000,000 Internets

  78. GeekFurious
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    Why doesn’t Dany give Jorah more of a chance? It’s very simple if you understand human behavior.

    Jorah was her “most trusted adviser and friend”. But more importantly, he was someone Dany knew LOVED her. Not just loved her like “oh, Queen, you’re so kind and wonderful and I’ll follow you to the ends of the world”. No. He was MADLY IN LOVE WITH HER and she knew it. And that creates a whole different dynamic between them. She’s never going to give him satisfaction on that front, but she is put in a great position of emotional power when it comes to him.

    So when she finds out that his super loyalty is tainted, she is outraged that her doormat, and most loyal friend and adviser, was at some point against her, and then didn’t confess it the second he knew he had changed his mind. To her, that is a greater violation of trust and loyalty than attempting to kill her.

    Doormats don’t get second chances. You’d be smart to learn that in real life too. Don’t be someone’s doormat. They’ll always step on you.

  79. Dorne tootin
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    “Pushing a sad woman out the moon door” will be my new euphemism for taking a dump.

  80. jkb
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

    Patchy Face:
    ,

    Really- if you watch S 1 carefully, you will see that Jorah was spying for Robert Baratheon (via Varys).

    tbh I don’t quite get what happened with that either: the little kid messenger brings sir jorah’s pardon to sir barristan. a sealed pardon from KL, signed by robert baratheon, one year go. umm what? how? why? jorah already received this in S1. whose seal was that btw?

  81. JackintheBeanstalk
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    Stardust,

    You asked:
    “This may be stupid but can someone please explain the whole ‘Sansa emerging with a new, sexy dress and what looked like a brunette dye-job’ thing to me? I understand she is now ‘playing the game’ but what was with the appearance change?”

    I may be oversimplifying, but I will try to explain.

    There are 3 ways to indicate that a character has reached a turning point when you are writing for TV or the movies.

    1. Tell the viewers “Sansa has changed” or have another character say “ooooo check out the new and improved Sansa” (weakest technique because the goal is to show rather than to tell)

    2. Symbolize the change with the change of appearance, useful when there is no time (yet) to dramatize the strongest of the three methods, which is

    3. Show actual, dramatic behavior changes in the character.

    The change in her appearance/costume signals dramatic and permanent change. Keep an eye out for behavior changes next. These can be subtle at first, such as changes in carriage or bearing, which indicate newfound confidence, or some decision that she has made that will create a pivot point in her character arc.

  82. Invorvial
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    I was shocked…

    I knew it was coming, and as the fight was faithful to the book for the most of it, I knew the exact moment it was supposed to happen… And yet, the shock of witnessing Oberyn’s death was enormous (I guess, I can understand it now, due to the brutality of it…)
    I started with the show, yet thanks to an unnamed friend I was told of some shocking events of the first season, so I felt sad about Ned, but somewhere deep in the back of my mind echoed “And so what? At least they make it unpredictable…”
    I knew about the Red Wedding from the books, and I shed some tears for Robb, Cat and Talisa, who’s death was a bit surprising, but still nothing like this.
    THIS, my dear Sers and Ladies… I myself was surprised by the reaction I gave it. (After looking away, since this was the most disgusting thing I’ve ever seen, or potentialy never seen…) Loosing of a character I loved (yet I would never before dare to say loved that much) left me heartbroken, crying my eyes out and wondering, why the hell does Martin has to do that to his faithful readers/watchers…
    I can’t imagine the shock the Unsullied had to face, not knowing such a horrible event was on its way, especially when it seemed that Oberyn had won the fight.

    We shall never forget you, prince Oberyn Martell, The Red Viper of Dorne!

    Despite this terrible event (well, it was still quite a great scene, I have to admit), this was another brilliant episode. I loved the Sansa scene, where she showed us that she herself can play the game, and I belive had many of us wondering, for how long she has been playing.
    And I felt somewhat happy for Ramsay finally becoming his father’s true son and heir… I shoudn’t like him, right?

  83. Gosensgo
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    jkb,

    Okay so the pardon was sent by tywin lannister on yesterday’s episode to do exactly what happened. Which was to separate jorah and Dany. This makes Dany weaker.

  84. Hexonx
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    jkb: tbh I don’t quite get what happened with that either: the little kid messenger brings sir jorah’s pardon to sir barristan. a sealed pardon from KL, signed by robert baratheon, one year go. umm what? how? why? jorah already received this in S1. whose seal was that btw?

    A few episodes ago the Small Council was discussing Dany and her two experienced Westerosi Knight advisors. Tywin has Mace Tyrell fetch his quill and paper. So it is assumed Tywin forged the pardon (or they had one sitting around signed by Robert) and had Varys send it directly to Barristan in order to weaken Dany’s entourage. Jorah susses out as much when he (weakly) tries to defend himself.

    JackintheBeanstalk: The change in her appearance/costume signals dramatic and permanent change.

    I could be wrong but I also thought the black was mourning clothes, for her Aunt, although only the three Lord’s & Lady at the hearing know her true identity. I guess technically if she was Petyr’s niece then Lysa was her Aunt by marriage though. Also, she apparently is going on a tour of the Vale with Robin so I assume that is why she dyed her hair.

  85. Sergei Walankov
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    jkba sealed pardon from KL, signed by robert baratheon, one year go. umm what? how? why? jorah already received this in S1. whose seal was that btw?

    The seat was that of the Hand of the King, i.e. Tywin Lannister. A few episodes back, Varys related at a meeting of the council that Jorah had dried up as a source of information for him as he was now devoted to Daenerys. Tywin has obviously taken advantage of the situation by sending her documentary evidence that he had been disloyal to her in order to sow discord in her camp. Jorah rightly points out that it’s the Lannisters who stand to benefit from what she’s about to do, but the silly girl goes ahead and does it anyway.

  86. Sergei Walankov
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    Oh yes, I’d forgotten about Tywin asking for his quill and paper. That never ends well.

  87. Hodor Targaryen
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    The turning point in Dany’s scene with Jorah was when he admitted to telling Robert that she was pregnant. It’s one thing to have endangered her life, perhaps even forgivable. But he endangered the life of her son, and that can’t be washed away in her eyes. Reminds me of Viserys, who I think Dany would have protected from Drogo, until he aimed a blade at her belly and threatened to cut her child out from inside of her. From that moment on, her brothwr was dead to her, and so is Jorah.

  88. Sergei Walankov
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    Hodor TargaryenReminds me of Viserys, who I think Dany would have protected from Drogo, until he aimed a blade at her belly and threatened to cut her child out from inside of her. From that moment on, her brothwr was dead to her, and so is Jorah.

    Yes, one of the D’s discusses that in the latest Inside the Episode.

  89. Orr
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    I guess we can all agree, that Tyrion pondering about the cousin who is obsessed with killing beetles represents the audience wondering why GRRM kills all the good characters. Peter Dinklage even said it himself, Tyrion is reduced to an audience member this season.

    It’s poetry, it rhymes.

  90. TOIVA
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    Ah yes, Sansa truly is capable to break down in tears whenever she wishes. She’s been doing it for a while now and has good practice. And look, now for all intents and purposes, she’s the Lady of the Vale. She’s still to wed Robin and doesn’t seem to mind Littlefinger. Actually it seems she enjoys his attention and he’s in turn amazed by her capabilities.

    They’re clearly not the clear cut heroes, definitely in the grey area. So perhaps Sansa-Robin-Petyr can live for a while longer, please?

    Meereen is getting more and more interesting, I’d say. Daenerys seems to still be a child and her decisions never seem well thought through (better than usual acting this time btw.). But there’s just more and more ramifications to Essos than ever before: Wandering Jorah (poor lad is really crushed now), old masters striving for their lost power, what happens with all the Unsullied when they’re not ‘used’ in conquests (I guess they don’t spend all their time in the river)? Also Daenerys herself seems less annoying than she used to be, probably better writing and acting.

    Boltons now hold the North with a firm grip and are resettling Winterfell! I hope the old Weirwood tree survives.
    As someone else put it, now Ramsey could arrange an accident to happen to his father and get the North for himself. But I don’t know. Ramsey is another entirely unpredictable character. Anything might happen up north (btw, with all the Bolton army reunited and without any meaningfull opposition, Mance will have a problem getting further south).

    So far I’m not really sure what the ‘Orson discussion’ was about. Despite a possible ‘some things happen without understandable reason’ meaning, every detail in GoT has a reason.
    Tyrion is really screwed, but I still don’t see him dying (not that I’d mind that much; I liked having Joffrey or Lysa around much more and I sure would love Oberyn to live over anyone else in Westeros and Essos). He’s probably gonna escape somehow, doesn’t have another choice, anyway.

    Now why was the ending so horrifying? While we know to always expect the worst, Tyrion and Oberyn as the underdogs had a good chance. I believed Oberyn must have some trick up his sleeves (poison has been mentioned and yes, the squire even used gloves while polishing the blade), therefore him basically winning when the Mountain lied on his back wasn’t that much surprising and was believable. Also I (and I’m clearly not alone in this) just so much wanted Oberyn to win and start getting his vengeance. The more crushing it was to loose that happy ending so close to it accomplishing.
    Oberyn’s death was very graphic, yes, however I’m used to that (Spartacus says hi, never had a problem there). It’s a combination of me believeing he already won with the fact I wanted him to survive (therefore was caring for the character) AND the fact it was graphic that all together made it the most horrifying moment of GoT (and I said earlier probably the most horrifying moment on TV, or movie or simply any screen whatsoever).

  91. JoopStroop
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    Stardust:
    This may be stupid but can someone please explain the whole ‘Sansa emerging with a new, sexy dress and what looked like a brunette dye-job’ thing to me? I understand she is now ‘playing the game’ but what was with the appearance change?

    I think she got the dyejob so that other people in the Vale, besides the three or so lords who she told, will not know she is Sansa Stark (because the Tullys have auburn hair).

  92. JackintheBeanstalk
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    Hexonx: I could be wrong but I also thought the black was mourning clothes, for her Aunt, although only the three Lord’s & Lady at the hearing know her true identity. I guess technically if she was Petyr’s niece then Lysa was her Aunt by marriage though. Also, she apparently is going on a tour of the Vale with Robin so I assume that is why she dyed her hair.

    Hexonx, You make a very astute observation. Here’s how (unsullied) Andy Greenwald of Grantland put it:

    “Sansa’s leather-bound appearance just as Robin was about to leave the nest was suitably ferocious; she’s a swan who hatched into a vulture.”

    All the interpretations are fascinating in their own way.

  93. Maester TT
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    Evelyn:
    EverydayI’mHodoring,

    I know this is a great series but I have to call and end now, too many good guys getting killed.the villain to “hero” ratio is no good – it was fun though! farewell GoT!

    You’ll be back to see what happens to Tyrion… admit it :-)

  94. Hodorkovski
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    jkb: tbh I don’t quite get what happened with that either: the little kid messenger brings sir jorah’s pardon to sir barristan. a sealed pardon from KL, signed by robert baratheon, one year go. umm what? how? why? jorah already received this in S1. whose seal was that btw?

    I assumed it was another copy of the same document kept for the archives in King’s Landing. It was standard practice for scribes to make a few copies of official documents.

    For example, there’s numerous copies of the Magna Carta.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta

  95. Ser Blount Sarkasm
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

    Is there any possibility that Oberyn is still alive? Just barely hanging in there? Maybe the Lord of Light can bring him back? Where is Thoros when you need him?

  96. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    Weekly reminder for Book Readers to refrain from commenting/explaining things in this post, please.

  97. Lloga
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    Ser Blount Sarkasm:
    Is there any possibility that Oberyn is still alive?Just barely hanging in there?Maybe the Lord of Light can bring him back?Where is Thoros when you need him?

    Not sure the LoL can do much without a head. The brotherhood leader didn’t regain his eye after the resurrection, and Oberyn without his head, well, not sure his fanbase would appreciate that too much.

  98. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    Off topic: Since there is a scattering of Star Wars talk, did anyone realize that Pycelle was General Veers?

  99. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    Lloga,

    Right. “It doesn’t work that way, child.” Pedro might take exception too.

  100. Lloga
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    Invorvial:
    And I felt somewhat happy for Ramsay finally becoming his father’s true son and heir… I shoudn’t like him, right?

    What a fantastic scene! Just ignore for a second that Lord Bolton is a bagstabbing traitor and possibly Big Bad of the series, and Ramsay is the most horrible villain even by GoT standards, we finally get a scene about a straight and caring father, doing what is right, transcending petty and unfair social rules.
    Probably the most heartwarming father-and-bastard-son scene ever in the whole series, or at least since the farewell scene between Ned and Jon just a stone throw away from this location (or so I guess).

  101. Lloga
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    @Oz and others:

    What’s the gripe with Igritte? Why are people so mad at her? I’m not overly invested in her character, but I don’t get why people are angry about her, she seems to be a pretty decent person in comparison to her wildling warrior peers, who don’t seem to draw any hate at all …

  102. Hexonx
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    Lloga:
    @Oz and others:

    What’s the gripe with Igritte? Why are people so mad at her? I’m not overly invested in her character, but I don’t get why people are angry about her, she seems to be a pretty decent person in comparison to her wildling warrior peers, who don’t seem to draw any hate at all …

    Right, it’s like people don’t understand she is a warrior in the Wildling army. And no matter what she does from now on she is still responsible for Jon being alive. She saved him more than once (as Tormund Giantsbane pointed out she could have easily killed him when he was riding away but chose to injure him only).

  103. A Man Grown
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    Can you bring back a man without a head? Not six times. Just once.

  104. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    I saw him in Indiana Jones & The Last Crusade as well, though I didn’t recognize him initially because his American accent was absolutely flawless. In a recent Flicks & the City interview he admitted that his paycheck for Star Wars was only £50, meaning he now makes more money going to the sci-fi conventions that book him.

  105. Ludo
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    Evelyn: farewell

    And during the first world war, do you think the ratio of bad guys/heroes dying was good ?

    I’ve read this complaint all day long, as I was afraid of. I think that if there must be a decrease of the audience it’s going to be from now on.

    The worst in this story is that it’s not true. More “villains” die in GOT than “nice guys”. I’m going to prove it, considering ONLY season 4 :

    Dead “villains” :

    Polliver
    Biter
    Rorge
    Karl Tanner
    Rast
    Locke
    Joffrey Baratheon

    … and there are more of them.

    “Nice” characters :

    Oberyn Martell

    “Neutral” characters :

    Lysa Arryn
    Dontos Hollard

    And it’s like that in every season. But people keep forgetting.

    Well, try to finish the season at least. You can stop at the end of season 4.

  106. Lloga
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    About the “beetles” monologue:

    Apart from any philosophical content, it reassured me in my view of Tyrion as a person:
    Why does he continue to serve his family, knowing what monsters they are and how they are bringing violence and despair over the world? Why didn’t he jump ship the many times he had the chance? He complained about how he is mistreated by his father and stuff all the time, but he never actually DID something against it.

    I’ve been reading how the monologue singles out Tyrion as the one person who feels empathy for those “bugs”, the common people. But that’s not it. He doesn’t really feel empathy for the beetles, Tyrion wants to understand, to study the reason why they are crushed, he doesn’t do a thing to stop it. Tyrion wants control over his life (running in the family, I guess), by the means of understanding things.
    Compare that to the other book-nerd character, Sam, who puts sympathy before reason all the time.

  107. Richard
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    As unsullied, who have watched episode 4.08 you may now read this comic presentation of the battle -

    http://mccomseycomix.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/the-red-viper-vs-the-mountain-that-rides-a-12-page-comic/

  108. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    A Man Grown,

    Man, I wish those guys would show back up. Guess it will likely be S5.

  109. clegane
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    Orr,

    about poetry, when Dany said

    “If you’re found in Meereen past break of day,
    I’ll have your head thrown into Slaver’s Bay.”

    I totally expected Jorah to say “That rhymed!!”

    also, this:
    - Say her name!
    - Heisenberg

  110. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    Lloga,

    I have no gripe whatsoever. I understand who she is and what they are. I think there was a general sentiment for many show-viewers only that the character of Ygritte had been misinterpreted from S3 when she shot the father in S4. She nails that guy in cold blood, but then shows compassion for Gilly and Baby in this ep. I am really just curious to know if this was done by design, yet open to the possibility I am simply reading too much into it.

  111. Veltigar
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones:
    Off topic: Since there is a scattering of Star Wars talk, did anyone realize that Pycelle was General Veers?

    Glover is the nerd king. Not only was he in Star Wars, he was also the main villain in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and Aragog’s voice in Harry Potter. Oh, and he was a Bond villain as well in “for your eyes only”.

    Nick: I don’t think about that much with one shot anymore, Mike.
    Michael: You have to think about one shot. One shot is what it’s all about. A deer’s gotta be taken with one shot. Mads Mikkelsen as Euron could learn you all about that!

  112. Lloga
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    JackintheBeanstalk: Hexonx, You make a very astute observation. Here’s how (unsullied) Andy Greenwald of Grantland put it:

    “Sansa’s leather-bound appearance just as Robin was about to leave the nest was suitably ferocious; she’s a swan who hatched into a vulture.”

    All the interpretations are fascinating in their own way.

    That scene was short and heavy, to me it might have been the most important scene of the episode (together with Ramsay/Bolton).

    Level 1: Sansa has to keep her identity covered up to keep herself save from those “Lannister spies in the Vale”, hence she dyes her hair. She needs to mourn her aunt, hence the dark clothes.

    Level 2: She is targeting the position of the Lady of the Vale, and feathers seem only appropriate for the eyrie.

    Level 3: The feathers symbolize her birds of a feather pact with the mockingbird, and her readiness to leave the nest and fly. Dark and tight clothes with a severe low cut to the mourning dresscode, well, she probably has some kind of reason for that I guess …

    And that’s just the obvious in-world symbolics.

    Out-of-world, the “hair change” trope doesn’t need any explanation, and Sansa’s turning to the dark side, well, I’m not sure whether the strong Sith vibes and the connotations about how the master-apprentice thingy is supposed to end aren’t a little bit too telling here …

  113. Brandon
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    chris,

    Cersei used the phrase “game of thrones” to ned in season 1. “When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground”

  114. Lloga
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones:
    Lloga,

    I have no gripe whatsoever.I understand who she is and what they are.I think there was a general sentiment for many show-viewers only that the character of Ygritte had been misinterpreted from S3 when she shot the father in S4.She nails that guy in cold blood, but then shows compassion for Gilly and Baby in this ep.I am really just curious to know if this was done by design, yet open to the possibility I am simply reading too much into it.

    Well, meta-level speaking, yes, I too had the notion that the raid of Molestown was not just a repetition of “Raiders gonna raid” but especially about the Igritte+Gilly scene. Either these two have some kind of future meeting (unlikely, this is GoT), or it is a “character leadup” for a central Igritte scene in one of the two remaining episodes, to soften up the “evil faceless wildling savages coming for our scalps”.

  115. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Having said that, I found it somewhat unlikely that as much as Jorah has done for her in the past, she wouldn’t give him more a of a chance to explain exactly how all of the events transpired. This is the guy who was her most trusted adviser since the beginning and she wasted no time in sending him packing. We could also argue that he was lucky to walk out with his head still attached, and such an argument would be justified. Still, it came across to me at least a little abrupt.

    I’ll try to say why I think Dany felt she had to send Jorah away without going into any information not given in the show. Feel free to delete if it’s out of line though.

    Remember that Dany was raised primarily by Viserys. He was constantly worried about the Usurper’s knives coming after them. He would’ve filled Dany’s head with a more whitewashed version of Aerys’ reign than we’ve gotten from the other characters. Dany knows the Targ dynasty was overthrown when Jaime, who as a kingsguard was supposed to put the kings safety above all else murdered him and allowed the city gates to be opened to the rebels.

    Dany’s lived with a constant hum of paranoia around her. The betrayal of a trusted advisor is something she can not abide. She cares about Jorah enough to let him live, but she can’t trust him ever again.

  116. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    Lloga,

    Yes on the “character leadup”… for an upcoming pivotal scene between she and Jon perhaps?

  117. Michael Jordan
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    I expected more out of the fight. It wasn´t that impressive, al though the ending was of course surprising.

  118. Needle in the throat
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    If the Mountain dies from his wounds. Can Tyrion still be pardoned?

  119. Sunfyre
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

    Michael Jordan,

    Are you for real?

  120. anuhealani
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    It’s bizarre to me than anyone could think Dany made the wrong decision in exiling Jorah. Yes, it has the unfortunate side effect of playing into Tywin’s plan, but that’s tangential to the point.

    Dany isn’t inside Jorah’s head the way we are; she can’t possibly know with 100% certainty that he is true to her, the way we do. The man swore to the Targaryen cause and then proceeded to commit high treason. If he were still spying for Varys now, he would certainly lie about that as well.

    Jorah is lucky that Dany’s personal feelings for him made her merciful. Any other ruler would have had him executed, and reasonably so.

  121. Lloga
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones:
    Lloga,

    Yes on the “character leadup”… for an upcoming pivotal scene between she and Jon perhaps?

    That would be the most logical one, of course. He is the only one in castle black – where they are heading – who (bar the little archer boy) is part of her arc.

    I’m not sure what such a scene could conclude with, though. Jon betrayed her and has cut her out of his own story, with no motivation from his side to change that, even if he was the last living man of the Night’s Watch.
    Igritte’s not stupid, she partially knew all along that Jon was going to betray her and the wildlings (she outright saved him from being revealed as a NW agent back then). It still hurts when he actually does it.
    Now there is nothing between them that can be used as leverage for any kind of progressive story, as far as I can tell. And we all know that this part of the story is about Jon, not Igritte.

  122. Hexonx
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Spot on. I think we also have to remember that we have known about Jorah’s betrayal for a long time and have come to terms with it. We know he stopped and is fully in her corner now. But this is the first Dany’s knows of it. It’s not hard to believe she would have a rash reaction. Maybe if she allowed more time to mull it over and allowed Jorah to explain she may have come to a different decision. But at that moment she can only feel her rage at the thought that her most trusted friend had almost got her (and her unborn baby) assassinated.

  123. Lloga
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    Hexonx:
    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Spot on.I think we also have to remember that we have known about Jorah’s betrayal for a long time and have come to terms with it.We know he stopped and is fully in her corner now.But this is the first Dany’s knows of it.It’s not hard to believe she would have a rash reaction.Maybe if she allowed more time to mull it over and allowed Jorah to explain she may have come to a different decision.But at that moment she can only feel her rage at the thought that her most trusted friend had almost got her (and her unborn baby) assassinated.

    In addition to that, Dany is not the most reasonable and patient person around. Instant mass crucifixions just because, lets kill all the people in that city, because I slept with you, or not, because I like the tone of your voice.

    Jorah is *very* lucky to get away with his life here, after spying, betraying and taking part in an attempt to murder her and her unborn child. Dany is more the “take what is mine(=my mass-murderous lunatic father’s) with fire and blood” kind of girl, not so much the “bygones” one.

    Jorah is a shady character, you know, one of those guys who is in constant danger to be killed by the “good guys” with their impeccable moral compasses, like Ned Stark, who would have killed him if Jorah hadn’t fled. He might have had enough influence on Dany to not be killed on the spot, but that’s about it. Now Dany is left with mere opportunists and hardliners, good luck with that.

  124. ThroneFan
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    Ozzyosk,

    lol was thinking the exact same thing crazinesssss

  125. Hexonx
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

    Lloga: Now Dany is left with mere opportunists and hardliners, good luck with that.

    Good points but I don’t see Barristan as an opportunist or a hardliner.

  126. Karson
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

    Bodo Temote,

    Yeah it was like Tyrion was so ecstatic, but as he watched, Oberyn got waaay too emotionally involved. And that look shared between Tyrion and Jaime–they saw it too, as well as Ellaria.

    And just as things in GoT can never go too well, I believe Danaerys has had waay too much good luck and she just banished her good luck charm. It’s downhill for her I believe.

    I just hope Tywin dies soon. Bastard has it coming. Then no one will have reigns on Cersei and she is only bound to get herself killed if there is no one to protect her from herself. After the brotherly display between Jaime and Tyrion, she certainly isn’t going to let Jaime do it anymore.

  127. MUGger
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    Jorah went from “Lord Friendzone” to “Exile under Dragon Restraining Order”.

    And Sansa looks like she’s ready for the Westeros touring company of “Hedwig & The Angry Inch”.

  128. chamush
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    Hopefully someone can send for Thoros in time to get there and say the words to bring Oberyn back from the dead!

    Oh wait…i forgot it doesnt work with any damage to the head!

    Or does it? ;)

  129. Luccas Vassoler
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    Am I the only one here that didn’t love the battle scene?

    Ok ok… To people who didn’t read the book, wich is my case, it’s kind of a good suprise how it ends but honestly, saying that was an amazing fight scene… It’s sounds a bit exagerated to me. Unexpected, Ok. Best fight scene ever, not even close.

    Anyways, better than see good beatting evil (again) and evil smashing good, what seems to be the major point of this season.

  130. Aphrodite
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

    I was unable to sleep last night after watching this episode. I was hoping Red Viper would win and him and Tyrion would waltz off to Dorne to drink and whore. But alas. I just hope they don’t include this in those ridiculous “beautiful deaths” pictures. Because there was nothing beautiful about it and he did not deserve to die that way.

    Dany is becoming too cold and unforgiving. She would have been dead long before the birth of her dragons if not for Jorah. Some might say sending him off alive is better than death, but I think being alive and parted from her is worse than death for him.

    And next week being all about The Wall. After tonight’s episode does anyone really give a fig what goes on there??? Unless Jon Snow kills that stupid Ygritte I could care less.

  131. Caravaggio
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    For now, I’m headed to the Triple B for cocktails.

    Enjoy, Oz! Brush up on your burp-singing. And keep your ears open for fake-sounding owls.

  132. Caravaggio
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

    Aphrodite:
    I just hope they don’t include this in those ridiculous “beautiful deaths” pictures.Because there was nothing beautiful about it and he did not deserve to die that way.

    My exact same thoughts.

  133. Gatorfisch
    Posted June 2, 2014 at 11:42 pm | Permalink

    This Sullied has been waiting to see the Red Viper/Mountain fight even more than the Red Wedding. And D&D did not disappoint. Now the Unsullied understand why there was so much anticipation around the casting of Oberyn. And, to Pedro Pascal’s credit, I miss the show version as much as I missed the book version. Well done, sir.

  134. AGirlHasSaid
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 12:06 am | Permalink

    By the Red God, that was the most shocking episode since Ned and his head were parted.

    Instead of watching Silicon Valley as I usually do after Game, I had to retreat to a quiet corner and stare at http://emergencykittens.tumblr.com/for about an hour.

    It is clear that Petyr is moving forward with his plan. Yet it is unclear exactly what his next move will be. But the most important part is that Sansa somehow managed to become a woman in one episode. Yes, her transformation has been evolving through all she has endured. But tonight, Sansa Stark reached a turning point.

    I have to do a re-watch of their scene in the Vale. I am interested in peoples’ opinions about Petyr’s question to Sansa at the end of their conversation. He asks if she thought she really knew him. Was he just sort of showing off (I’m so sexy and mysterious, you’ll never understand me, you silly girl) or was it a warning? One of the last things Sansa’s father did was to trust Littlefinger.

  135. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 12:22 am | Permalink

    Aphrodite,

    You mean to say you “couldn’t” care less. If you could care less, that means you’re reasonably interested…

  136. gewa76
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 12:45 am | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    Not only was Pycelle General Veers, but he was Kristatos in For Your Eyes Only, and one of his henchmen was…TYWIN!

  137. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 12:56 am | Permalink

    ArgonathofBraavos:
    Aphrodite,

    You mean to say you “couldn’t” care less. If you could care less, that means you’re reasonably interested…

    Don’t be that person.

  138. Maester TT
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 1:57 am | Permalink

    AGirlHasSaid:
    [...]Instead of watching Silicon Valley as I usually do after Game, I had to retreat to a quiet corner and stare athttp://emergencykittens.tumblr.com/for about an hour.[...]

    Emergency kittens to the rescue!!! Hah, didn’t even know that existed. I’ll have to remember to send this link to a friend if he/she is feeling down :)

  139. Reina
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 2:01 am | Permalink

    OT…
    I am soooooooo Happy to find an Awesome (GoT site)Home, I can read and laugh with.
    thanks for some eye openers on things that I have missed and things I haven’t thought of!
    Happy Reader here!

  140. Maester TT
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 2:01 am | Permalink

    Luccas Vassoler:
    [...]Anyways, better than see good beatting evil (again) and evil smashing good, what seems to be the major point of this season.

    Enjoy life while you still can… and Oberyn certainly did that!

  141. ArgonathofBraavod
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 2:08 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    As a non-native English speaker, I greatly appreciate it when people correct my grammar. Wasn’t being a know-it-all. Was just trying to help.

    Language is important to me, and I think what we actually say should be consistent with what we mean to say!

    But I’m no elitist about it. We’re all careless from time to time – for a host of legitimate and illegitimate reasons.

  142. Damien
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 2:19 am | Permalink

    M is for Mountaincide,

    I was wondering the same thing. Oberyn was easily the best character game of thrones has produced. He was my favorite along with tyrion. It made me so frustrated and angry after that episode. But to kill of Oberyn and tyrion…. Oooooh so annoying. There must be something like what you said going to happen. I’m hoping tyrion lives somehow.

  143. Silas Kulkarni
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 4:25 am | Permalink

    On the bug crushing: I think the most compelling interpretation is that the story feels like it is leading to a meaningful conclusion or point and then it just abruptly ends. Basically the story of the lives of many of our favorite characters. Within the story Orson the bug-crusher as cruel God who has reasons, but inscrutable ones, makes sense. But at the meta-level the idea that Peter Dinklage’s perhaps last monologue is story with no punchline and no clear moral is quite a powerful (and distressing) metaphor for the world of game of thrones. Life seems like it has a point and then people who are awesome or beloved randomly and abruptly die. Not my worldview, but the worldview of the Game of Thrones universe for sure.

  144. Jimbo
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 5:46 am | Permalink

    Words cannot describe the shock of that final scene (for all show viewers and book readers). Have to say this is up there with the Red Wedding for seeing shocked faces! lol

    I am a book reader and even though I knew what was coming. I was still gutted for Oberyn and his untimely death! :( Really gonna miss that character!

    and of course I wouldn’t have liked that character if it wasn’t brought to life by such a brilliant actor, hats off to Pedro Pascal. What an actor!

  145. Maester TT
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 6:15 am | Permalink

    Jimbo:
    Words cannot describe the shock of that final scene (for all show viewers and book readers). Have to say this is up there with the Red Wedding for seeing shocked faces! lol[...]

    I actually felt pain in my stomach… I needed some time to place it all afterwards. Good lesson in there… don’t get cocky. He could have won had he just stuck to business, but oh no he wanted to add insult to injury. He was the best, but he lost due to stupidity.

  146. Alex Also
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    Rewatching it, I think Sansa had sex with Littlefinger.

    I wonder what that means.

    Perhaps she’ll die.

  147. Oz of Thrones
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    Reina,

    Welcome to the army!

    Alex Also,

    You think she has already? Nah….
    Potentially in the future? Quite possible, but subjectively disgusting nonetheless. No offense to Aidan Gillen.

  148. B
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    Ozzyosk,

    Welcome aboard the crazy rabid fan train Ozzyosk! Glad to have you share in the joy and pain… And more pain.

  149. A Man Grown
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    Alex Also,

    I don’t know why she swallowed the fly.

  150. jentario
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    Reina,

    We are happy too. Most of us are book readers, and this episode seems to have earned us more Unsullied. Which is great! And the Unsullied threads are here so you can talk actively with mods here to delete spoiler comments.

  151. House Mormont
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    This episode was so emotional

    Missandei and Grey Worm :(( that mans face just made me wanna cry

    Reek :( just every second he was on screen, and having to go back to Winterfell now

    Sansa! I was screaming at the TV she slaaaaaaayed

    Arya’s laugh! Had me laughing, but it’s also very sad

    dany :( and why are people downplaying it? The only person she could trust with all her heart told the people that killed her entire family that she was pregnant, resulting in the assassination attempt of her and her baby

    And then the last seen, Tyrion’s monologue was very clever, layers and layers of symbolism, and I cried at the fight, Oberyn’s shouting was so powerful

    Cersei’s face at the end, THATS why she’s my favourite

  152. SHMF
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    These reviews are MUCH better when editorialized and not a word-for-word re-enactment of what we just watched.

  153. kissan
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    I wonder where Tommen is. I know that Tywin is the real power behind the throne, but don’t he need King Tommen to be there?

  154. B
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    Bodo Temote,

    Bodo, please come back here snd post your thoughts to me once you’ve read the books. I am truly eager to hear your thoughts in the difference between the books and show based on your current perspective. I hope you do read them. Soooo excited! I will vicariously experience them all over again.

  155. Lloga
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    kissan:
    I wonder where Tommen is. I know that Tywin is the real power behind the throne, but don’t he need King Tommen to be there?

    Well, Tommen was wise enough to (listen to Overlord Tywin and) get himself out of the whole Tyrion trial thingy. Seems only appropriate that he is not even there for the TbC as he delegated this job to the Hand.

    On the other hand, Tommen could actually be the way for Tyrion to stay alive. It should definitely be possible to address a petition of clemency directly to the king. They (and by “they” I mean Jaime) simply have to get Tommen free from both Cersei’s and Tywin’s influence for a short time … well, okay, not gonna happen.

  156. B
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    Bas,

    Ew Bas. Ew.

  157. House Mormont
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    Also, people seem to think Dany made a rash decision? She knows, and we know, he ceased being a spy only because he loved her. Is she really going put her life on a knife edge again and hope that his unrequited love will last forever, when she is never going to be attracted to him

    Especially when she has relations with others like Daario right in front of him, would anyone still be in fierce love after a few years of that?

    (Sorry I always put myself in the shoes of the characters and I get frustrated when people can’t see that they’re being reasonable. This goes for Ygritte too)

  158. TOIVA
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    Lloga,

    Hmm, pleading for King’s mercy? I don’t think that’s possible when ‘the Gods have declared Tyrion guilty’.

    Buf if it somehow were possible and Tyrion needed to persuade Tommen, he should try to get Margaery’s help. She’s the key to Tommen (despite being absent for a while from the screen).

  159. Unsullied 8
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    Amanda M,

    Amanda M,

    Not in your head. I felt it and didn’t know what was coming. It was brilliant.

  160. LittleFoot
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    I totally agree with you – Dany is just being reasonable, even though that “he won’t stay in love with me for ever” might not be the first thing she thinks about when she is confronted with his treason. People should get more into the shoes of the characters before they judge them!

    On another note: Anybody know why they STILL haven’t included the Eyrie into the opening credits? I don’t know why, but it’s really driving me mad by now…

  161. Brokenhearted
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

    Never have I discussed a tv show on a forum but this episode compelled me to do so. My family / friends either do not watch game of thrones or are not yet up to the current season.
    Totally devastated by the turn of events at the end of episode 8, even though one could see Oberyns fate a mile away. Despite the dramatic build up and clues I still held onto the hope that we would be surprised by a good guy winning for once.
    Oh GRRM why so cruel!
    I am still naively holding out a glimmer of hope that Tyrion escapes his sentence in spite of everything’s.
    I am starting to wonder if we will ever see justice delivered to the truly evil characters such as Tywin, Cersei, and the Boltons.
    I refuse to let you beat down my spirit GRRM, I will continue to hope!!!

    Some Guy replying to that other guy,

  162. Brokenhearted
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    Although, having expressed my discontent regarding the loss of so many ‘good ones’, I must say that having so many characters to despise does make for compelling watching. The whole story would be a bit dull if all the Starks were still all still alive and well and together ruling over Winterfell, having overpowered the Lannisters, Boltons and Ironborn, and Ned is happily supporting Stannis who is ruling as rightful King, and married to Danaerys, the other ‘rightful’ royal, and their dragon children lovingly flying in the skies watching over Westeros.
    Yeah that would be a bit boring.

  163. AGirlHasSaid
    Posted June 3, 2014 at 11:44 pm | Permalink

    Silas Kulkarni,

    On the bug crushing: I think the most compelling interpretation is that the story feels like it is leading to a meaningful conclusion or point and then it just abruptly ends. Basically the story of the lives of many of our favorite characters. Within the story Orson the bug-crusher as cruel God who has reasons, but inscrutable ones, makes sense. But at the meta-level the idea that Peter Dinklage’s perhaps last monologue is story with no punchline and no clear moral is quite a powerful (and distressing) metaphor for the world of game of thrones. Life seems like it has a point and then people who are awesome or beloved randomly and abruptly die. Not my worldview, but the worldview of the Game of Thrones universe for sure.

    Interesting, but…

    *sigh*
    Ever the eternal unsullied optimist, I had a somewhat less nihilistic interpretation of this.

    Remember that the bug smashing cousin was eventually foiled by a kick in the chest by a mule, and thus the Animal Kingdom was revenged! True, many beetles lost their lives before this occurred, and although it might have been more poetic for Orson to have been flattened by a Volkswagen-sized dung beetle, I guess we should be grateful for whatever form of justice GRRM and/or the show’s writers choose to offer us.

  164. gbnf
    Posted June 4, 2014 at 1:12 am | Permalink

    Hey OZ

    First I am shocked that no one has mentioned this, but I am very disappointed that there was no recap last week. And no you can’t hide behind the there-was-not-an-episode excuse. I hold you to a higher standard :p

    Ygritte has a conscience, still that doesn’t mean that Gilly & her baby survives. If the baby makes another untimely noise or someone else is more thorough in searching that’s it for her. I loved that Sam’s brothers pointed out certain facts to cheer him up. However I think he’s going to have bigger problems very shortly.

    So Ramsay is no longer a bastard & the North is vast. I wonder if Jon Snow could have gotten a similar deal. Also is Snow a common last name for bastards, bastards from the north? What is Roose going to do with the north, & what will the people do knowing he killed their king.

    Greyworm got a very nice peek of Missandei. However unless I am mistaken he is lacking the necessary parts to really get things going with her. Their bond seems true, but kids don’t seem to be in their future.

    Jorah, the perpetually friendzoned dude. He gave out the info about her before getting to know the type of person she was. Ever since then he has done EVERYTHING for her. Seems cold to just to cast aside like that, but this is a cold world. Is his character done? Does he claim his pardon? Or will Tywin, who probably crafted this scheme, have him tortured for any info on Dany?

    Who has the advantage, Littlefinger or Sansa? Those looks between them were deep & vast. I think Sansa may be finally be understanding the game.

    I got concerned when Arya started laughing hysterically after finding out that crazy bitch had committed suicide. I realize that she has been through hell & might have been laughing at the Hound’s plight, but she needs to try to keep a clear head. What happens next, will she finally meet Sansa? Will the Hound succumb to that infection since he was afraid to burn it out?

    So the Viper had his catharsis, however as soon as I saw him stab the Mountain in the heart I said stab him in both shoulders or hands to render the Mountain useless. But alas that did not happen. As soon as the Viper was off his feet so close to the Mountain I knew it was going to be a pyrrhic victory for him. The Viper is by far the most formidable warrior we have seen in this show. It seems a shame that one of the Viper’s greatest strength’s (passion) was his downfall. But I am confused why Tyrion was sentenced to death. It was a tie wasn’t it?

  165. Lloga
    Posted June 4, 2014 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    TOIVA:
    Lloga,

    Hmm, pleading for King’s mercy? I don’t think that’s possible when ‘the Gods have declared Tyrion guilty’.

    Buf if it somehow were possible and Tyrion needed to persuade Tommen, he should try to get Margaery’s help. She’s the key to Tommen (despite being absent for a while from the screen).

    I didn’t study westeros law thouroughly enough to be sure, but the TbC should first and foremost give a final statement about the guilt of the accused, not the punishment itself. At least that’s how it was done in many parts and times of Europe. Pleading for mercy is only an option when you ARE found guilty, because otherwise it wouldn’t be mercy.

  166. Lloga
    Posted June 4, 2014 at 7:38 am | Permalink

    Brokenhearted:
    I am starting to wonder if we will ever see justice delivered to the truly evil characters such as Tywin, Cersei, and the Boltons.
    I refuse to let you beat down my spirit GRRM, I will continue to hope!!!

    You crazy? To me, Tywin is much, much more important for the show than Oberyn. If they kill him off just for cheap “justice”, I’ll be furious. He is much more central for this thing than Ned ever was.
    Lord Bolton is a fantastic character too, and he just started his arc (while Oberyn was clearly a straw fire).
    I’m a little bit disappointed with the Cersei arc lately, and she is kind of redundant with Tywin around, but I guess that with the Marg and Tommen situation, she might grow into a more interesting position once more.

    I really hope that the show settles down a little bit and doesn’t go down the road they are currently taking. I more and more feel that what they do is dishonest story-telling. They try to push characters down my throat (clearly, Oberyn was just too cool and stuff, they tried to make him a fan favourite just in time to kill him off horribly), they try to twist liked characters and stuff.
    While I’m generally fine with a more realistic (and that unfortunately means dark) character and plot development, the show overdoes it in my opinion, not because central characters are killed or twisted, but because this is done in a sensationalist way.

  167. Maester TT
    Posted June 4, 2014 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    gbnf:
    [...]The Viper is by far the most formidable warrior we have seen in this show. It seems a shame that one of the Viper’s greatest strength’s (passion) was his downfall. But I am confused why Tyrion was sentenced to death. It was a tie wasn’t it?

    As far as we can tell, Oberyn is certainly dead and The Mountain is unconscious or dead but that hasn’t been verified yet.

  168. Javier
    Posted June 4, 2014 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    This was great it’s perfect near-perfect. Sam says transformation dark side that was perhaps a bit abrupt but I’m okay with that

  169. Thronetender
    Posted June 5, 2014 at 6:09 am | Permalink

    Somebody posted few days ago asking where Stannis was while Tyrion’s fate was being decided in KL.

    If I have it correctly – and one of you please jump in and correct me if I don’t – Stannis, Melisandre and Davos are currently packing up the whole family and entire remaining army to head to the Wall. They are also taking Stannis’s wife, Selyse, and the smart little daughter, Shireen. Apparently Melisandre intends to feed some leeches with Shireens blood. She used Gendry’s blood for the original 3 leeches, because it was King’s blood. But that is no longer available, so I think she’s going to use Shireen. (I never figured out why she couldn’t use Stannis’s blood – was it that he didn’t want the leeches on him or that his blood was just too run-down after the defeat at Blackwater Bay?)

    Anyway, last season Stannis was about to kill Davos for freeing Gendry, when Davos shows him the letter from the Wall detailing the emergency situation up there. Melisandre agrees that the Wall is the more important fight, and Davos is allowed to live. Good thing, too. Stannis didn’t have the charm or patience to convince the Iron Bank to lend him money. Davos did that. I guess we will be seeing the entire Stannis entourage at the wall in ep 9 or 10.

    Now, back to Episode 8. Damn. Sad, shocking, exasperating. If Oberyn used poison on those spears, why didn’t the Mountain die sooner? I guess the body weight to poison ratio was off, or something. I’ll miss Oberyn.

    The Beetle speech: I had to watch that a few times and read all the great theories about it before I could appreciate it. Even so, the thing I liked the best was that Tyrion said he dreamed he was standing on a mountain of beetle bodies at the sea shore. If beetle bodies equate to all the mindlessly killed human bodies stacking up in Westeros, I read some foreshadowing into that. Maybe Tyrion will be the last Lannister left at the end. That would be ok.

  170. Thronetender
    Posted June 5, 2014 at 6:32 am | Permalink

    Oh yeah, great recap, OZ. Did Ozette ever remove her hands from her eyes?

  171. AnotherInterpretation
    Posted June 5, 2014 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

    When I saw Sansa’s bird outfit, for some reason I thought she was trying to emulate Littlefinger’s house sigil, the mockingbird, which would allow her to play into his power trip and start manipulating him.

  172. Notagotfananymore
    Posted June 7, 2014 at 3:57 am | Permalink

    I’m so desapointed by the end of this episode. Really I don’t want to watch the show any more. It already became boring since the firt episode of season 4 and I was wondering to see how were going to evolved this refreshing character that the show needed so much.

  173. Maester TT
    Posted June 7, 2014 at 4:49 am | Permalink

    Notagotfananymore:
    I’m so desapointed by the end of this episode. Really I don’t want to watch the show any more. It already became boring since the firt episode of season 4 and I was wondering to see how were going to evolved this refreshing character that the show needed so much.

    Well, some characters die off and new characters see the light. That’s how it goes in GoT and it has been from the start. GoT gives me kicks, excitement and thrills, much more than any other show ever has. Even if it leaves me gutted sometimes, it’s still all exciting because it is about the bigger story.

  174. CYNTHIA ROBINSON
    Posted June 8, 2014 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    I AM SO SURPRISED THAT NOBODY MENTIONED THE HOT BATH TIME STARE THAT WENT ON BETWEEN THE DUDE WITH NO PENIS AND THE TRANSLATOR YOU TELL ME THAT THAT WASN’T HOT.


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