Game of Thrones Season 4 Finale Preview – “The Children”
By Ours is the Fury on in Previews.

“The dead can’t hear us.”

From the official HBO synopsis: “An unexpected arrival north of the Wall changes circumstances. Dany is forced to face some harsh realities. Bran learns more of his destiny. Tyrion sees the truth of his situation.”

The season four finale is written by executive producers David Benioff and D.B. Weiss, and directed by Alex Graves. The showrunners are already teasing “The Children” as the show’s finest finale yet, and Graves has commented that the episode includes a fight so VFX-heavy that it most likely wouldn’t even be ready until this month. Photos from the finale were released on Wednesday, highlighting Daenerys, Arya, Bran and more.

Ours is the Fury: Well, this is it! I can hardly stand the wait until Sunday night, but at the same time I’m dreading it because then no more Game of Thrones until next year. As a reader of the ASOIAF books, I’m dying to see certain storylines like Arya, Jon and Brienne’s play out, and curious if we’ll see significant changes. And of course, everyone wants to know what the last scene of the season will be, because that’s usually a biggie.

So what are you all looking forward to? Now more than ever, be extra generous with the use of that spoiler coding!

Additionally, HBO has just released this new video celebrating Father’s Day and the season finale landing on the same day.

*Avoid visiting the comments section on the Youtube videos before watching the season finale as they are dark and full of spoilers!*


367 Comments

  1. Dark Heart
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    FENTON!

  2. 123
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:01 am | Permalink
  3. Roey
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    Hodor! Hodor! Hodor!

  4. Peter
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    Stannis!

  5. Grey Ghost
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    A snowflake :D followed by goosebumps oh my god. Is it Monday yet?

  6. jentario
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    Stoneheart?

  7. lol
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    It’s odd the recap hasn’t been released yet. I guess they don’t want to tip their hand so early for the finale.

  8. Matt
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    But where is the “previously on” segment? This will be the give-away!

  9. wizardeyes
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Definitely my most anticipated episode ever.

    6. The Hound Vs Brienne
    5. Bloodraven and the Children of the Forest
    4. Stannis arriving at the Wall
    3. Jaime freeing Tyrion and their talk
    2. Tyrion killing Shae
    1. Tyrion killing Tywin

    I want it so bad !!!!!!!!

  10. A flayed man none
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    My body is ready.

  11. Ser Florian
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    123,

    Yeah, I saw that just go up on the HBO channel. The video isn’t really a spoiler in anyway… But, if you’re Unsullied, I’d avoid it for the blatant spoilers in the very first comment. Fullscreen the video before the comments load, if you can.

  12. Drogo
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

    Brienne vs the hound

    U fuking kidding my right ??
    omg i would love that, even tho i like them both

  13. wizardeyes
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    Drogo,

    It sure looks that way from the teaser…

  14. Grey Ghost
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    jentario,

    I’ve decided to go in with an open mind. I’m confident they will! And I’m confident they won’t. Who knows. If Lena trolled us all with ‘that’ pic I will find it rather amusing lol.

    I hope the scene begins (at the end of the episode ofc) with a bunch of random Freys. I want the unsullied to feel what I felt… WHY THE FUCK I CARE ABOUT THESE STUPID FREYS I HATE THEM D:< … and then….

    Boom! :o

  15. Eddward
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Happy Father’s Day Tywin! I have a gut feeling your gift from Tyrion is going to cause you to shit your pants…well…shit at least.

  16. A flayed man none
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    wizardeyes:
    Drogo,

    It sure looks that way from the teaser…

    Sorry, but that’s definitely her shoulder in the frame.

  17. Sword of the Morning
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    Grey Ghost,

    Which pic?

  18. utherwolf
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:32 am | Permalink

    wizardeyes:
    Definitely my most anticipated episode ever.

    6. The Hound Vs Brienne
    5. Bloodraven and the Children of the Forest
    4. Stannis arriving at the Wall
    3. Jaime freeing Tyrion and their talk
    2. Tyrion killing Shae
    1. Tyrion killing Tywin

    I want it so bad !!!!!!!!

    0. Lady Stoneheart

  19. Turncloak
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Can’t wait. Don’t know how I feel about The Hound vs Brienne. Partly because there was a troll on Westeros that said Arya would kill Podrick so I’m very nervous now

  20. Dorne remembers
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Grey Ghost,

    Hopefully they ll show Black Walder or Walder Rivers representing the Freys

  21. jentario
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Eddward,

    Har!

  22. Se Maester
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:34 am | Permalink
  23. Josla
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    weird that they included in the synopsis that an “unexpected” arrival changes thing north of the wall” so much for the unexpected part

  24. Winter is not coming
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    episode 10 will end with arya sailing bravos

  25. mpn1010
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    From the shape of the armor, it certainly seems as though Brienne is the person confronting the Hound and Arya. I remember in the S4 preview, Gwendolen said that her favorite moment this season was biting someone’s ear off…wouldn’t it be a bit redundant for Sandor to have his ear bitten off by Brienne considering he suffered a bite-attack from Biter a few episodes back? I don’t know if I buy it. Still, it would make sense for the two story-lines to converge here, and that convergence obviously will not end well for anyone involved, nor will it end with Arya being taken under Brienne’s protection as they go and look for Sansa. This would be in keeping with the frustrating “near-miss” Stark reunions this season: Bran choosing not to reunite with Jon; Arya arriving at the Vale just as Sansa is leaving; and now, Arya fleeing from Brienne, the one person who could conceivably help her to track down Sansa.

  26. JJT
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    Winter is not coming,

    That would be very anticlimactic. It won’t end that way

  27. Balerion The Cat
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    I have just found an interview with Michelle Fairley regarding SH, source: https://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/yahoo-tv/michelle-fairley-talks–24–live-another-day–villainy-and-those–game-of-thrones–rumors-184022907.html

    Q:I’m sure you’re aware of all the speculation about Catelyn returning, in the Lady Stoneheart storyline from George R.R. Martin’s books. Can you say anything about that?
    A:In one word, no, I can’t.

    Q:Have you seen the photo that Lena Headey posted on Instagram, a photo of a heart-shaped pile of stones?
    A:No. I haven’t. I haven’t seen it.

    Q:It’s a group of rocks, arranged in a heart shape, and the caption reads “My stone heart.” Some fans are viewing it as a spoiler.
    A:Oh, bless Lena, so lovely. Well, she’s a goat [laughs]. She probably put that in her garden. [Laughs.] She’s very artistic.

    Q:So maybe we’re all reading too much into it?
    A:Yeah. Well, I have no idea. I have no idea.

  28. jentario
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    Winter is not coming,

    Doubt it. Even if Stoneheart is cut/delayed there are a number of things that will make for a better ending. At best, the last scene could be a Stark montage that includes Arya heading for Braavos. My guess is if that scene is cut, Bran will end the season.

  29. Winter is not coming
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    JJT:
    Winter is not coming,

    That would be very anticlimactic. It won’t end that way

    jentario:
    Winter is not coming,

    Doubt it. Even if Stoneheart is cut/delayed there are a number of things that will make for a better ending. At best, the last scene could be a Stark montage that includes Arya heading for Braavos. My guess is if that scene is cut, Bran will end the season.

    and i am 100% sure because of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBmE321e74E

  30. jentario
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    Balerion The Cat,

    Let’s spoiler tag everything, shall we? Everyone here knows there’s one particular scene book readers are hoping for, and the last thing we want is for them to associate it with Michelle Fairly.

  31. ramsayreek
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    What in seven hells is with these ads that pop out from the side of the screen. Extremely annoying.

  32. jentario
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    Winter is not coming,

    What about it? The music would fit Bran’s scene just as well as Arya’s scene, and it would make little sense to end on Arya here when there are much bigger scenes throughout the episode (and the final shots of GOT seasons are always epic, which this just can’t be). If your proof is that there is an Arya poster in the background, all I can say is that that’s probably the uploader’s doing. His guess is as good as ours.

  33. kris
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    I want Lady Stoneheart and Michelle Fairley so bad!

  34. wizardeyes
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:54 am | Permalink

    mpn1010,

    The prosthetic detail sent to the emmys describes the Hound as having prosthetics for a broken leg and a bitten ear.

  35. Balerion The Cat
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    jentario,

    Yeah, I had them covered in spoilers but I’m not that good with spoilers tags and it didn’t work for all the text. It is fixed now. Thanks admins, you were faster than me :)

  36. Oberyn Wan Kenobi
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    Something I just thought of.. Walder Frey was confirmed to return in season 4. He ha not appeared yet. They may use him for the introduction of LS since it’s a Frey we know and are invested in.

  37. 2awesome4apossum
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    Winter is not coming,

    You do realize that including a handful of character motifs in what sounds like an end credit song probably means nothing, other than the fact that Arya will be featured predominantly in the episode, as her motif is ONE of the ones used. It’s happened before, and my guess is that the screen will fade to black and display credits well before that motif comes, especially since hers isn’t the only one in the song.

  38. mpn1010
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

    wizardeyes,

    Wow…so the Hound’s being bitten will become a motif this season. Given her warped sense of humor, Arya should make some sort of “man bites dog” joke in the season finale and turn it from a motif into running gag. Seriously though, thanks for the info. I guess that confirms the confrontation described above.

  39. Canis Dirus
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Eddward,

    Until this post I did not realize the hilarious irony that this episode was occurring on fathers day. Hilarious.

  40. Carne
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    jentario, where did you hear about Nell Tiger Free being cast?

  41. Darren Burbidge
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    wizardeyes,

    In the preview you see him rolling down the hill maybe that’s where his broken leg comes from

  42. lavignac
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    Is anyone on WICnet aware of the canadian GOT event for the finale? The Cineplex cinemas will air the Children live sunday at 21h00 on big screens,their announcement teasing prize give-aways without details.
    I’ll try to attend in Quebec city.

    Is anything similar happening in the USA?

  43. The Loon
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    dat shot at :11 seconds though!

  44. Luka Nieto Garay
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    Carne,

    Looked for it. It was easy to find:

    http://starcrossed-souls-slowdancing.tumblr.com/post/88582737127/capleesi-swan2swan-my-graceless-heart

    So, a single claim in a Tumblr. Could easily be false. But… oddly specific; it’s not like she’s anybody, really. We’ll see. I liked Aimee Richardson as Myrcella, the little we saw of her. Also, looked a bit into this new girl’s open social media accounts and saw that 2 days ago she had some reason for celebration, with close friends congratulating her. Could be anything, of course. But you know, if all of this was true, it would all make sense.

  45. Hollyoak
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    Hopefully this will be better than episode nine.

  46. JTargs
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    Winter is not coming:
    and i am 100% sure because of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBmE321e74E

    Lol sorry but no way in seven hells are they ending with Arya getting on a boat. Thats not even episode ender quality. Itll be stoneheart or bran

  47. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    They’re bringing back Dontos!!

    Ok, someone has to take me to a nice white room or something. I’m going nuts.

    Plus now I’ve gone back to spoiler tags on everything, I can’t let stuff be given away.

    My long-shot appearances for this episode I want:

    1. Salladhor Saan – do I need to explain?

    2. Random Ned Stark appearance that isn’t from previous footage! Ok, not happening.

    3. Pixie Le Knot, still in position at the wedding. “Can I get up now?

    4. HOT PIE! Because you can’t give up on the gravy!

    5. Mord, the gaelor at the Eyrie. “NO GOLD! NO GOLD!”

    6. Closure on whether someone was able to help the mammoth burn out the fire on his ass.

    7. Strong Belwas!

    8. Gendry, anyone? Gendry? He is in…uh…still in a boat? Last shot should really be Joe Dempsie running into Yara Greyjoy asking for directions.

    9. Stannis’s dogs from Storm’s End, embalmed in the same crap with the stillborn kids. “I like dogs. Loyal animals.”

    10. Wisdom Hallyne, who shows up to throw a pot of wildfire on top of a fat guy with glasses and a hat and yells, “Write faster!”

  48. Troublesome Birdsong
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    Dorne remembers:
    Grey Ghost,

    Hopefully they ll show Black Walder or Walder Rivers representing the Freys

    Possible, but more likely Lame Lothar Frey. As the eventual heir to the Twins, Black Walder is more important to the future of the storyline.

  49. Valyrian Plastic
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    Oberyn Wan Kenobi,

    Surely not though!? Even if they did invite David Bradley back for season 4 it wouldn’t be for that reason. More likely it would be Black Walder considering he did the deed of slitting her throat and he’s already been established.

    Off topic: I’m guessing that the eye peering through the hole belongs to Tyrion now, but for the first few views I genuinely thought it was Varys in his Rugen disguise, as they’ve not really established his talent for taking on new personas so far.

  50. Luka Nieto Garay
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    Luka Nieto Garay,

    I quote myself to add about the supposed Myrcella recast that I have asked the Tumblr-ite who mentioned it if she could give any sort of evidence of this claim, and asked the actress on Twitter too. Let’s see. Maybe this is true. It sort of rings true. This new actress is truly a nobody in terms of celebrity status; I don’t know why anyone would just make this up. Just for a laugh, I suppose. Dunno. We’ll see it soon, I guess.

  51. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    Luka Nieto Garay,

    We’re already looking into it. We’ll let you guys know what HBO says as soon as we hear back, as always.

  52. kris
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    Hollyoak,

    Watch 9 again- it is amazing!

  53. The Ghost of Nymeria, of House Shaggydog, Breaker of Summer and Lady of the Grey Wind
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    “The Dead can’t hear us.” OK if Stoneheart isn’t in this finale, then they’re just flat out trolling us at this point.

  54. Canis Dirus
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Is Balon finally going to take the plunge this ep? It would take like 2 mins to show Yarasha return to the Iron Islands and have someone be like “It’s you father, he has fallen from the tower” blah blah. Seriously they just need to do it already

  55. The Ghost of Nymeria, of House Shaggydog, Breaker of Summer & Lady of the Grey Wind
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    Luka Nieto Garay,

    The guy who plays Tommen now is just as much a nobody as his old actor was. The fact that Aimee Richardson’s not well known is a stupid thing to hold against her, especially in such a small role that she’s fought so hard to keep before. Unless George told D&D something we don’t know, like I’m assuming they did with Tommen, I really see no reason for such a recast. Her FfC material doesn’t exactly require an amazingly talented actress andshe’ll be covered in bandages for the majority of DwD & WoW. I hope they haven’t recast her :(

  56. Troublesome Birdsong
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    Canis Dirus:
    Is Balon finally going to take the plunge this ep? It would take like 2 mins to show Yarasha return to the Iron Islands and have someone be like “It’s you father, he has fallen from the tower” blah blah. Seriously they just need to do it already

    I’d rather they just do it next season and actually show it after a scene with Balon to introduce Aeron and Victarion.

  57. Luka Nieto Garay
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    The Ghost of Nymeria, of House Shaggydog, Breaker of Summer &amp; Lady of the Grey Wind,

    What…? That wasn’t what I was saying at all. My point was about the supposedly new actress, and that if you were going to make up a lie about a casting, you would do it about someone who is at least a bit known. It was a way of saying that the claim has a greater possibility of being true. I wasn’t talking about Aimee at all (I like her very much as well.) Read that again: I said “the new actress.” Quite clearly.

  58. Canis Dirus
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    My complete and totally baseless guess at what makes up this ep (66 mins)

    Various KL Lannister interactions post-trial – 6 mins
    Arya&Hound/Brienne&Pod encounter – 6 mins
    Bran&Co fight wights and find ww tree – 8 mins
    Dany sees what dragons did – 5 mins
    More KL Lannister interactions – 3 mins
    Yarasha returns home and hears about Balon – 3 mins
    Jon meets wildlings/Mance…STANNIS! – 8 mins
    Arya abandons Hound – 5 mins
    Dany locks up dragons – 4 mins
    Tyrion escape – 7 mins
    Bran meets children and BR – 8 mins
    LADY STONEHEART – 3 mins

  59. Ginevra
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    Josla:
    weird that they included in the synopsis that an “unexpected” arrival changes thing north of the wall” so much for the unexpected part

    Seriously! That spoiled me for Episode 9 since I saw that last Sunday, before The Watchers on the Wall.

  60. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    While you’re at it, get us some dirt on the Greyjoys! And Strong Belwas! (Slaps himself in face)

  61. JamesL
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    The Ghost of Nymeria, of House Shaggydog, Breaker of Summer &amp; Lady of the Grey Wind,

    I remember reading a few weeks ago about someone trying out for the role of Myrcella so this is just more confirmation that they are recasting the role. It is quite mean of them to recast her when it doesn’t seem like it is really necessary. I’m going to feel bad for her if it is true because out of all the cast members on twitter she is the one who seems most enthusiastic about the show. She seems unaware about the recasting too because when people have asked her on twitter if she will return she says she doesn’t know yet. That makes the recasting even more likely because if she was returning they would have contacted her a while ago.

  62. Ahmed Shafaq
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    Canis Dirus, thats including the opening and credits so it would be 63 min actually.

  63. The Ghost of Nymeria, of House Shaggydog, Breaker of Summer & Lady of the Grey Wind
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    Luka Nieto Garay,

    Oh OK :) Sorry. Misread that.

  64. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    It sounds like it is Tormund who says ‘The dead can’t hear us.’ Since he is now a prisoner, it could mean we get a scene at the Wall after Stannis arrives.

  65. JamesL
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    Ginevra,

    Stannis could have arrived at the end of episode 9 and the “unexpected arrival” synopsis for episode 10 would still fit.

  66. Luka Nieto Garay
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    I follow her on Twitter too. She’s so truly enthusiastic about the show and the role. Quite sad to see her go. And yeah, they probably would’ve contacted her about a month ago at least if she was coming back… I guess that seals it. Who knows, maybe she really is not enough of a good actress for her new big role; we certainly know less about these things than D&D and the casting director, so we shouldn’t feel all that entitled about this, I guess. Still sad for Aimee. Now, let’s see if this Nell Tiger Free is really the new Myrcella.

  67. Dammit Patrice
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    “The dead can’t hear us” It’s not Tormund who says this line, it’s Beric!!!

  68. Ginevra
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    wizardeyes:
    Definitely my most anticipated episode ever.

    6. The Hound Vs Brienne
    5. Bloodraven and the Children of the Forest
    4. Stannis arriving at the Wall
    3. Jaime freeing Tyrion and their talk
    2. Tyrion killing Shae
    1. Tyrion killing Tywin

    I want it so bad !!!!!!!!

    Not certain on #6, but perhaps. Not certain on #2, but I sure hope so! I would hate for her to replace that other person. As one has said and many have added, 0. LS, although I would like to see her after the credits roll, to psych out those so certain she’ll appear.

    As for the episode promo, at 10 seconds we see the privy door and at 11 seconds we see Tyrion’s crossbow!!!! And at 28 seconds, the locked away dragons look a lot like alligators.

  69. Walter Harrow
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    Ive said it before, but i really hope they dont just have Arya running away during the Hound-Brienne fight. I really want to see Arya’s final scene with the Hound (with no one else around, because its a big moment for her character and having someone else just steal their spotlight would make their relationship this season pointless)

  70. spacechampion
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    Canadian theatres playing the finale on the big screen

    The list of participating Cineplex theatres is as follows:
    - Cineplex Cinemas Courtney Park, Mississauga, ON
    - SilverCity Newmarket Cinemas, Newmarket, ON
    - Cineplex Cinemas Winston Churchill, Oakville, ON
    - Cineplex Cinemas Yonge-Dundas and VIP, Toronto, ON
    - Cineplex Cinemas Queensway and VIP, Toronto, ON
    - Cineplex Odeon Eglinton Town Centre Cinemas, Scarborough, ON
    - Colossus Toronto Cinemas, Woodbridge, ON
    - Galaxy Cinemas Barrie, Barrie, ON
    - Cineplex Odeon Clarington Place Cinemas, Bowmanville, ON
    - Cineplex Odeon Gardiner’s Road Cinemas, Kingston, ON
    - Cineplex Cinemas Ottawa, Ottawa, ON
    - Cineplex Odeon South Keys Cinemas, Ottawa, ON
    - Galaxy Cinemas Peterborough, Peterborough, ON
    - SilverCity Burlington Cinemas, Burlington, ON
    - SilverCity Hamilton Cinemas, Hamilton, ON
    - SilverCity London Cinemas, London, ON
    - Galaxy Cinemas Waterloo, Waterloo, ON
    - Cineplex Odeon Devonshire Mall Cinemas, Windsor, ON
    - SilverCity Sudbury Cinemas, Sudbury, ON
    - SilverCity Thunder Bay Cinemas, Thunder Bay, ON
    - Coliseum Kirkland Cinemas, Kirkland, QC
    - Cineplex Odeon Forum Cinemas, Montreal, QC
    - Starcité Gatineau Cinemas, Hull, QC
    - Colossus Laval Cinemas, Laval, QC
    - Cineplex Odeon Ste. Foy Cinemas, Ste-Foy, QC
    - Cineplex Cinemas Trinity Drive, Moncton, NB
    - Cineplex Cinemas Avalon Mall, St. John’s, NL
    - Cineplex Cinemas Dartmouth Crossing, Dartmouth, NS
    - Cineplex Cinemas Park Lane, Halifax, NS

    More info at Cineplex.

    This is a simulcast so your time zone matters. Ontario and Quebec theatres showing the finale start at 9pm (obviously arrive way before that), Nova Scotia and New Brunswick starts are 10pm, and Newfoundland starts at 10:30pm.

    ADMISSION is $10 for which you get a $10 concession voucher.

  71. Ser Florian
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Yeah, that’s my thinking. I reckon they’ll give us some Jon back at Castle Black, after Stannis’ arrival, a conversation with Tormund about Ygritte, a little mending of the bridges between them to set up for next season, and just something to give Jon and the audience something other than the suicidal frame of mind Jon had at the end of episode 9. It’ll make me happy… I just love everything about Kristofer Hivju and his Tormund portrayal. If there is no Val, which it looks like, I hope that Tormund is going to be the replacement.

  72. Frey worm
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    Greatjon of Slumber,

    I want some balon and Yara.

  73. Canis Dirus
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    Dammit Patrice,

    YOU’RE RIGHT!!!!

  74. Mark Hogan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:47 pm | Permalink
  75. Ser Matt the Sullen
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    Ser Florian,

    I thought they put out a casting call for Val..?

  76. Oberyn Wan Kenobi
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Dammit Patrice,

    I wish… I don’t think so though.

  77. Nipplesonabreastplate
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    Grey Ghost:
    jentario,

    I’ve decided to go in with an open mind. I’m confident they will! And I’m confident they won’t. Who knows. If Lena trolled us all with ‘that’ pic I will find it rather amusing lol.

    I hope the scene begins (at the end of the episode ofc) with a bunch of random Freys. I want the unsullied to feel what I felt… WHY THE FUCK I CARE ABOUT THESE STUPID FREYS I HATE THEM D:< … and then….

    Boom! :o

    THIS!!!!! I WANT THIS!!!!!

  78. Arriba
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    I just want Michelle Fairley back. It’s not asking for that much. C’mon :(

  79. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    Dammit Patrice,

    That’s not Richard Dormer’s voice. And Beric would not be alive at this point, if, in fact, Lady Stoneheart is in. She was resurrected a few days after the Red Wedding.

  80. Ser Florian
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    Ser Matt the Sullen,

    Not that I’ve seen… she wasn’t in the two big leaks/rumours. Also, we haven’t had Dalla, or any mention of Mance having a wife, let alone that wife having a sister, in order for Val to be a “Wildling Princess” or anything like that. And we have Tormund who can fill her role pretty much… besides all of Stannis’ Knights wanting to wed/bed them (although they haven’t seen his member yet, ha!). Not saying she won’t/can’t appear… but I’m leaning towards her being cut. Saying that though, Shireen didn’t show up or get a mention ’til season 3, and I think D&D said they thought they wouldn’t be able to fit her in, but were able to, so who knows.

  81. Kris
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    Arriba,
    Yes– still, mourning her not getting an emmy.

  82. Ted
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    I believe the voice is indeed Beric saying “The dead can’t hear us.” Check out this old clip with him to compare.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wboON-Z-eqI

  83. Maurice James
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    Everyone keeps thinking it’s the hound vs brianne. But it’s just what they want us to think.

  84. Canis Dirus
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    That’s a rather insignificant detail considering how spread out the timeline is with all the various characters.

  85. Mark Hogan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    Ted,

    It’s 100% not him. That’s very clearly Tormund.

    Beric’s voice and accent are very different.

  86. Mark Hogan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    Maurice James,

    It is. There’s no doubt about it whatsoever.

  87. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    Canis Dirus,

    No it’s not. The reason Catelyn was so far gone, personality wise, was because she had been dead for too long. Now imagine her being dead for months!

  88. fuelpagan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Dammit Patrice,

    That’s not Richard Dormer’s voice. And Beric would not be alive at this point, if, in fact, Lady Stoneheart is in. She was resurrected a few days after the Red Wedding.

    Time becomes irrelevant once Bran is jacked into the Weir-trix. I think the show is going to end on Bran having a vision of the resurrection of Lady Stoneheart.

  89. Troublesome Birdsong
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Canis Dirus,

    No it’s not. The reason Catelyn was so far gone, personality wise, was because she had been dead for too long. Now imagine her being dead for months!

    And that’s why people assumed we would see her last season.
    It could be Bran seeing a vision/flashback of when they pulled her out of the river to help explain what happened.

  90. Troublesome Birdsong
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan: Time becomes irrelevant once Bran is jacked into the Weir-trix. I think the show is going to end on Bran having a vision of the resurrection of Lady Stoneheart.

    Oh, wow. Great minds think alike.

  91. Canis Dirus
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Just use that same exact explanation, toss in some suspension of disbelief, and there ya have it.
    I definitely understand your point, and agree with it. I just think it isn’t a complete dealbreaker in the event that that is how D&D are choosing to introduce her. I would be more than ok with that not being the case.

  92. Canis Dirus
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    Troublesome Birdsong,

    Also a good explanation for it…

  93. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    They better not show Beric resurrecting her. If she is included in the episode, which I still question, her reveal should come with her being alive. I think people are really overestimating Bran’s screen time in this episode. He’s not going to fight off WW and wights,meet Bloodraven and the COTF, and start tapping into the weirvision.

  94. Balerion The Cat
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    So apparently a poster that is a movie critic saw the episode and answered to a few questions, yes he also talked about Lady Stoneheart. SPOILERS (?)

    -”It was actually very well edited. The episodes flew by very fast, but in a great phase. Closet I can compare it is ”A Golden Crown” from season 1. A lot happened and it was very well placed.”

    -”The episode is just fantastic. There are some things different than the books, that will actually have that awesome GOT WTF moment on a lot of you”

    -”The Tywin/Tyrion scene was brutally great, but Tyrion killing Shae was just heartbreaking and brutal! She *spoilers*. Very raw scene.” I edited a part that reveals too much with *spoilers*, I wish I didn’t read that so I won’t ruin that scene for you if indeed the poster saw the episode.

    - And finally LS… he said she isn’t in the episode.

    Here is the source: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=480881&page=14

  95. mariamb
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    I love this suggestion. Bran’s flashbacks provide a worthy narrative device for depicting all that has happened off-screen. I like the use of it for the introduction of LS because it is somewhat similar to Arya’s wolf dream. Also, if they show the actual resurrection, it will give Beric (and the wonderful Richard Dormer) a few more moments of screen time.

  96. 0KEN0
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    I can’t wait for there to be no Lady Stoneheart and watch these boards implode.

    Seriously, I bet it doesn’t happen. I, for one, won’t really care.

  97. Hodoreo
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    This episode will be amazing.
    Bran finally finding the tree eyed raven. Apparently, Bran’s group will be attacked by wights before the entrance to the cave.
    Hound and Arya’s confrontation with Brienne/Pod. I really hope they don’t kill the hound here, kinda disproves the whole Gravedigger/Cleganebowl theory if they do.
    We’re finally getting an update on Rickon. Osha has confirmed filming this season, so chances are we will see both in episode 10.
    Walder Frey confirmed filming this season. Would only make sense for them to show him to us this late into the season would be to introduce him and maybe Black Walder or Lame Lothar back to the audience.

    Jon and Mance’s confrontation, the arrival of Stannis. Hopefully we’ll get some more Stannis combat scenes. Can’t see them rushing Jon’s election with so little time left.

    Tyrion’s storyline is gonna be amazing here. The revelation about Tysha, the death of Shae and Tywin.

    Pretty sure a Braavosi captain was cast for S4 so we’ll get Arya sailing for Braavos.

    Pretty sure we’ll get the dragons sealed away, not something particularly exciting but a foreboding of things to come for Dany.

    Finally, Lady Stoneheart to wrap the episode.

  98. Se Maester
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    Uggh like a while ago I brought up the idea that Mycrella could be recast for season 5 and few people responded to my comment and pretty much convinced me there was no way that could happen. Please don’t let this be the one thing I end up being right about!

  99. Richard Weetabix
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    Canis Dirus,

    The opening and ending credits will be at least three minutes altogether, I would think. Probably a big fat “Previously” too.

  100. Dragonboner
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

    So pumped. Thanks Wic.net for satiating my GoT fever!

  101. Smitzzz
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    ramsayreek:
    What in seven hells is with these ads that pop out from the side of the screen.Extremely annoying.

    Get Ad Blocker Plus , voila no more ads , anywhere , ever.

  102. Oberyn Wan Kenobi
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    Balerion The Cat,

    Until it doesn’t happen I still have hope!

  103. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    Balerion The Cat,


    I’ve warned people not to expect her. It’s going to be a shame that a great episode could be ruined, for some, because of a scene and character that won’t be in the episode. Ever since it was revealed that Jaime would be going to Dorne, I knew LS wouldn’t be in this season.

  104. Interior Bannisters
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    How can we believe this “critic”.
    The way he/she writes is very suspect. And I doubt a real critic would risk their job just to leak details on a random forum

  105. mariamb
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    Interior Bannisters:
    How can we believe this “critic”

    We can’t. We shouldn’t believe anything until we see it with our own eyes. Until then, it is all speculation.

  106. House Mormont
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    My emotions aren’t ready for this episode

    do people think the Mance tent scene is gonna feature Mance’s bluff about having the horn of Joramun?
    It could be cut, but if the white walkers are gonna use it in TWOW they should probably keep that scene

    I think most of the first half is gonna be Wall action, Arya action and Lannister interrelations, so it can just get bigger and bigger

    AND I WANT THE BRAN ASSASSINATION REVELATION FROM BLOODRAVEN WITH ORIGINAL 2010 FOOTAGE PLS

  107. Dobbys Sock
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    Why isn’t it letting me post the extended promo?

  108. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    Interior Bannisters,

    I don’t necessarily believe that he saw the episode, but I do believe LS is not going to be in it.

  109. Turncloak
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    Luka Nieto Garay:
    Carne,

    Looked for it. It was easy to find:

    http://starcrossed-souls-slowdancing.tumblr.com/post/88582737127/capleesi-swan2swan-my-graceless-heart

    So, a single claim in a Tumblr. Could easily be false. But… oddly specific; it’s not like she’s anybody, really. We’ll see. I liked Aimee Richardson as Myrcella, the little we saw of her. Also, looked a bit into this new girl’s open social media accounts and saw that 2 days ago she had some reason for celebration, with close friends congratulating her. Could be anything, of course. But you know, if all of this was true, it would all make sense.

    That would be disappointing especially after all of the Cons that Aimee Richardson has gone to. Would really be upset if this is true

  110. Ashara D
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    spacechampion,

    Oh man! Have fun, Canadians! I saw the premier on a big screen and it was great. I hope it goes well there so that a cinema chain here in the US will do it too. (AMC? Lowes? Are you listening?)

    Can’t wait ’til Sunday!!

  111. Turncloak
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    So do you think that Lena Headey was trolling us on her Instagram? If so then well played by her

  112. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    Dobbys Sock,

    Because there is no extended promo. It is just fan made, and features clips from the trailers that haven’t been seen in the show yet.

  113. fuelpagan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    They better not show Beric resurrecting her. If she is included in the episode, which I still question, her reveal should come with her being alive. I think people are really overestimating Bran’s screen time in this episode. He’s not going to fight off WW and wights,meet Bloodraven and the COTF, and start tapping into the weirvision.

    To have her suddenly be alive would be a full blown deus ex machina since there has been zero groundwork provided to avoid it. I really doubt we will see Bran running the gauntlet to try and enter the tree. Tapping into the weirnetwork will begin to display Bran’s ability now that he’s reached the source. There are plenty of other drama in the episode, we just don’t need Bran trying to avoid the White Walkers.

    mariamb:
    fuelpagan,

    I love this suggestion. Bran’s flashbacks provide a worthy narrative device for depicting all that has happened off-screen. I like the use of it for the introduction of LS because it is somewhat similar to Arya’s wolf dream. Also, if they show the actual resurrection, it will give Beric (and the wonderful Richard Dormer) a few more moments of screen time.

    I just hope D&D explain it well enough that Bran is viewing a past event.

  114. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    Yes.

  115. Mallister65
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    EPISODE 9 RECAP IS UP ON YOUTUBE!

  116. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    The setup will come next season, when she actually does appear.

  117. Dobbys Sock
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    Thanks! Anyone seen the Qyburn interview on season 4 & 5. He basically confirms he will be in the episode.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8Qx10IuKLs

  118. mariamb
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan:

    I just hope D&D explain it well enough that Bran is viewing a past event.

    That would be my only concern…that it is clear that it happened in the past. I suppose that a brief conversation with Bloodraven could establish that.

  119. crabber's son
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    So i’ve been thinking and I think saving LS for next season might make the season better overall. have brienne continue maybe looking for the hound and arya and encountering a lot of hanging freys and then have a LS reveal in like episode 4 or something where she hangs a frey and have brienne run into her in the finale. End season 5 with brienne getting hung and making everyone assume shes dead, then in season 6 have the scene where she meets jaime. That would be consistent with season 5 being affc/adwd and season 6 being adwd/twow.

  120. Carne
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:03 pm | Permalink
  121. wizardeyes
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    I kind of hope LSH isn’t in this episode. It would take away from moments which are, to my mind, more important such as Tyrion killing Tywin and Stannis arriving at the Wall. LSH always seemed to me like it was done for shear shock value and I felt it kind of undermines the whole aspect of death in the show. Before I got to that bit in the books I described GoT to a friend as being ‘not the sort of fantasy where people magically come back from the dead’ and then I was like ‘oh…’

  122. Richard
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    spacechampion,
    - cineplex canada simul casting show on screens

    Ok, movie theater simul casting a TV series. Has that been done before? I know MMA and other one time events get simul case, but “just” a TV show episode.

  123. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    Carne,

    Not a hint of the Brotherhood or the Freys. No call back to Tyrion’s monologue about Tysha. Also, I was surprised to not see Maester Luwin mentioning the Children Of The Forest had all gone away.

  124. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    1. There is no extended promo. It’s fan-made.

    2. If you’re discussing the alleged leaked remarks about the finale, please add extras comments before your spoiler coding saying that you’re doing so, because even the book-readers need to be warned. ASOIAF-readers tend to have spoiler coding turned off, and then they get spoiled by leaks when they didn’t want that. So please show courtesy if you’re going to discuss potential leaks. (Though I suspect that person was trolling anyway.)

    1. Yep, episode 9/season recap’s up, and I think the Unsullied really shouldn’t watch it. http://youtu.be/bDOH3Qs99Lw

  125. Troublesome Birdsong
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    Carne:
    Here’s the episode 9 recap.

    Wow, it’s actually quite spoilerish.

  126. Blood crow
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    Who says “the dead can’t hear us”?

  127. Turncloak
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    Carne,

    Can’t see it since I’m at work. Any mention of Tysha, Cat Stark, and Stannis?

  128. Troublesome Birdsong
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    Carne,

    Can’t see it since I’m at work. Any mention of Tysha, Cat Stark, and Stannis?

    Stannis is confirmed. Not the others.

  129. ColdPie
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    Just Stannis, which I think will ruin it for unsullied

  130. Turncloak
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    So no Tysha reveal. Starting to think the troll on westeros might have actually been telling the truth. But then again, we know that we will be seeing the Children of The Forest this episode so can’t completely rule it out

  131. Eddard Stark II
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    After seeing the recap i’m starting to doubt LSH is in. But i’m still hopeful.

  132. Turncloak
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    It’s starting to make sense now why Bryan Cogman left twitter again a few days ago. He doesn’t want to deal with the people bitching about the episode 10 deviations from the book

  133. ColdPie
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    Breakdown of Recap for those who can’t see

    Tyrion talking about trial by combat followed by Mountain getting stabbed and then crushing Oberyn’s head

    Arya/Jaqen Braavos talk

    Jorah telling Dany that the dragons can’t be tamed

    Bran touching the heart tree and saying he knows where they must go

    Mel telling Stannis the real battle is up North

    Hound and Arya hear about Lysa, Brienne and Pod starting towards the Eyrie

    Quick recap of the battle followed by Jon walking out the gate

  134. Ashara D
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    Richard,

    It really is awesome on a big screen with quality sound. Of course, I don’t have the 70 inch tv with home theatre audio at my house…maybe it is a lot like that.

  135. wizardeyes
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    ColdPie,

    I don’t think it will spoil anything. The show has done a good job of misdirecting people – last we saw Stannis he was in Braavos.

  136. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    Tysha reveal will still be in. It is the reason Tyrion goes to his father’s chamber, and the synopsis says ‘Tyrion sees the truth of his situation.’ I don’t see him going back because of something about Shae.

  137. Turncloak
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    On the bright side atleast now I know to temper my expectations. I will enjoy the episode for what it is. Just hope They give Tyrion a good motivation for killing Tywin, hoping for an epic wight attack and CotF/BloodRaven reveal, and epic Stannis the Mannis moment

  138. Walter Harrow
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    They dont show the Hound giving the gift of mercy to the old man in the recap so i think its opretty obvious that they wont have anything close to the Arya-Hound scene from the book. They are no doubt going to do something ridiculous by having her run away during the Hound-Brienne fight which would piss me off

  139. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    I don’t see how no LS = deviation. They have said for years that they were no longer adapting book-by-book and that they would move things forward and back to suit the show. LS is being moved back, IMO, not completely removed.

  140. Hodor Targaryen
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    wizardeyes:
    I kind of hope LSH isn’t in this episode. It would take away from moments which are, to my mind, more important such as Tyrion killing Tywin and Stannis arriving at the Wall. LSH always seemed to me like it was done for shear shock value and I felt it kind of undermines the whole aspect of death in the show. Before I got to that bit in the books I described GoT to a friend as being ‘not the sort of fantasy where people magically come back from the dead’ and then I was like ‘oh…’

    I agree, I’d actually be fine with cutting LS entirely. She had a great death that was undermined by her resurrection, and as you say, it undermines a real strength of the series, its willingnees to kill off major characters. Plus, it’s a waste of Michelle Fairly’s talents.

  141. Harrold Hardyng
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    Really excited about the episode. I really hope Brienne does not cross paths with Arya and the Hound for the sake of the future of the story lines of both Brienne and the Hound. I am pumped for some major scenes that I have been waiting years to see!

  142. fuelpagan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    How? There is no reason to set anything up if you just show the event. As I stated in another thread. LS is the Lord of Lights punishment against the Frey’s for violating Guest’s Rights. She provides hope for justice for the Red Wedding. Only later do we find out the darkness attached to that hope. I don’t see D&D passing up this opportunity just to stick it in next season.

  143. Interior Bannisters
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    LS is not gonna be in it I guess. They would’ve DEFINITELY put the Brotherhood w/o Banners in the recap otherwise. *sigh* She will be in the series though. Just next season. Maybe Lena posted that instagram photo when she got a season 5 script.

  144. Turncloak
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    ColdPie,

    Thanks for the breakdown

  145. Dobbys Sock
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    No mention of the Ironborn either…

  146. Thoros of Brooklyn
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    I am disappointed that the recap gives away the Stannis moment. I’m sullied and my wife is not, and I know for sure when she sees that before the episode she’ll say/know “Oh, so Stannis is going to come save them at The Wall.”

  147. Joshua Atreides
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    I think Lena should get off Twitter because if the spoilers are true then there will be some angry tweets heading her way.

    That said, I’ve done a 180 in my anticipation doe that scene. If it happens then great. If not it will probably be an awesome episode regardless.

    And that recap was dumb of HBO. Dumb for the one scene. Why not show the other scenes of that character from this season?

  148. Eddard Stark II
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I agree i don’t think she completely out. If they do it, great shocking end scene… then what, what’s she going to do next season? I think it makes sense.

  149. Ser Florian
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Yeah, no LS in the finale doesn’t mean no LS in the show. There’s still next season… they can start dropping her name, like they did with Beric and the Brotherhood, have Brienne encounter some dead Freys, then get captured, and then the reveal. Whenever she arrives she’ll have an impact for the Unsullied.

  150. Arthur
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Isn’t there also a much talked about scene coming up…

    Where the whole cast on set was really sobbing because the scene was so awful? Probably Dany’s dragons slaughtering and eating some children?

  151. Turncloak
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Turncloak,

    I don’t see how no LS = deviation. They have said for years that they were no longer adapting book-by-book and that they would move things forward and back to suit the show. LS is being moved back, IMO, not completely removed.

    I think they might cut her completely out. Depends on what GRRM wants to do with her is significant or not in the future

  152. fuelpagan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    Eddard Stark II: ey do it, great shocking end scene… then what, what’s she going to do next season? I think it makes sense.

    That’s when we find out how dark and damaged her character is.

  153. Walter Harrow
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    Ser Florian,

    Doesnt Brienne meeting Arya in this episode kind of ruin her future storyline (and Arya’s in a way, i will be very annoyed if she tells Arya about Sansa because Arya needs to think she is the last Stark which makes her decide to leave). But if Brienne meets Arya and then just lets her go, are they really just going to have her searching for her over again next season before meeting LS

  154. Turncloak
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    Arthur,

    I think Dany’s scene will be severely overrated. Don’t see myself crying or being emotionally stricken. We’ll see though

  155. Joshua Atreides
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    Hodor Targaryen,

    while I think LS may appear next season, having her at the end of this season would seem like a bad idea on the basis that if the show kills off characters and then brings them back to life it in turn cheapens the loss. Oberyn dies brutally but Catelyn is resurrected?
    As much as I want LS in the series, I can understand and appreciate the reasons for her exclusion thus far. I just hope we get the Tysha scene.

  156. Fancy word for a sellsword
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    I just hope we eventually get Ned at the Tower of Joy, through Bran’s visions

  157. gewa76
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    So, someone who actually seems legitimate says they watched an Emmy-screener, and it’s undeniably the best episode of the series. And yet the forums will be filled with whining Monday for one reason. All I can say is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaB_G1WNT70#t=52

  158. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    By doing what? She is in exactly 1 chapter over the last 2 books. She is being held back until she is absolutely necessary.

  159. hath4
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    why would they ever mention the brotherhood with out banners in the recap. That would be a gigantic giveaway. Cat was mentioned specifically by brienne in the recap. The part about pledging to cat to bring her sansa and arya. hmm seems like that could be a pretty big hint there.

  160. fuelpagan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    Interior Bannisters: would’ve DEFINITELY put the Brotherhood w/o Banners in the recap otherwise.

    I would hope D&D are smart enough to avoid putting that type of spoiler in the recap.

  161. jentario
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    Recap is out. No BWB. You all know what that means…

  162. Eddard Stark II
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    I think we would have gotten that from one scene no need for a season long arc.

  163. Annara Snow
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    Walter Harrow:
    They dont show the Hound giving the gift of mercy to the old man in the recap so i think its opretty obvious that they wont have anything close to the Arya-Hound scene from the book. They are no doubt going to do something ridiculous by having her run away during the Hound-Brienne fight which would piss me off

    What a ridiculous conclusion. So, I guess they should assume that viewers 1) don’t remember anything at all and 2) should be explained and spelled out every little thing about the things happening in the episode. Never mind that one doesn’t even have to have seen that scene to understand what the “gift of mercy” is. It’s hardly the invention of this series and it’s really obvious from the situation. And, of course, that would make the recaps not only super-spoilery but 10-15 minutes long. Maybe they should have put a scene with Qyburn, in case people have forgotten who he is. And something about Shae, because maybe the audience has forgotten her? And something about the entire history between Tywin and Tyrion, and Tyrion and Jaime, and Jaime and Cersei, just so no viewers could get confused.

  164. Ser Florian
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    Walter Harrow,

    I dunno. One thing it would establish for Brienne is that the Hound is “dead”, the Hound that burns Saltpans isn’t the real Hound, and that Arya isn’t with the Hound, etc. as she found out through Elder Brother in the books. I don’t see how it will “ruin” her storyline, or Arya’s in any way. What would Brienne possibly tell Arya about Sansa? Brienne doesn’t know Sansa is in the Vale. Next season Brienne can still go hunting for Sansa, or Arya, or even hear a rumour of fArya, and go towards Winterfell. I’m fairly confident by this point that D&D know what they’re doing.

  165. the other guy
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    At this point it’s unlikely that LS is in, which is a shame.
    The soundtrack doesn’t clearly hint at it, and nothing in the recap.

    I still don’t understand how some people wish that she is completly cut from the show, when we don’t even know what’s going to happen with her going forward. She could have Jaime killed by the end of TWOW for all we know. Oh well…

  166. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    Nobody wants to talk about whether we’ll see Gendry again?

    Or potential epic nude Hodor?

    I still think the whole episode should end with Brienne receiving a raven from a certain King’s Landing brothel and she then turns to Pod, and says, “Pod, help me with this armor….we need to talk.”

    Nobody else is up for this? No?

  167. Annara Snow
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    jentario:
    Recap is out. No BWB. You all know what that means…

    Nothing?

  168. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    Spoiler? Nobody associates Lady Catelyn with the Brotherhood. They put Melisandre telling Stannis to go North in the preview, as well as Jaqen giving Arya the coin and telling her to go to Braavos. Those are spoilers. Showing the BWB is not.

  169. Eddard Stark II
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    hath4,

    But they showed Mel telling The Mannis to go north. You’d think they would show Cat dying or even Sansa saying how they threw her body into the river.

  170. jentario
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    Annara Snow,

    Or something.
    Your mindset is that D&D are the biggest trolls ever and prefer to drive book readers crazy than to actually set storylines up. I’m starting to believe that particular scene is delayed to next season.

  171. Annara Snow
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    ColdPie:
    Turncloak,

    Just Stannis, which I think will ruin it for unsullied

    How funny it is that some posters are complaining about the recap being too spoilery for some storylines, while others are complaining it’s not spoilery enough for other storylines.

  172. jkb
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak: Can’t see it since I’m at work. Any mention of Tysha, Cat Stark, and Stannis?

    no tysha, a bit obvious stannis spoiler, cat mentioned twice in a conversation between pod and brienne.

  173. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    hath4:
    why would they ever mention the brotherhood with out banners in the recap. That would be a gigantic giveaway. Cat was mentioned specifically by brienne in the recap. The part about pledging to cat to bring her sansa and arya. hmm seems like that could be a pretty big hint there.

    That’s a good point. Slight hope returned. I’m still going not expecting it so I won’t be disappointed. I mean, I will be disappointed but I don’t want it to ruin the whole episode.

  174. jentario
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    Annara Snow,

    Are the two mutually exclusive? They aren’t really

  175. Parsnip
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    Suddenly, I’m not that excited about the finale anymore. I’m sure it can’t be any worse than Mhysa though.

  176. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    the other guy: At this point it’s unlikely that LS is in, which is a shame.
    The soundtrack doesn’t clearly hint at it, and nothing in the recap.

    I’m still going with the idea that they’re going for max shock value, and not to lead everyone down the primrose path. It’s not like the events that lead to that moment are easily forgotten by viewers in the slightest. So at this point, all we have left is A) our own fevered imaginations running wild B) absence of anyone involved in the show to give us any hope on this because, well, it’s not their job, or C) a bunch of rocks in an Instagram pic.

    So there are two easy ways to interpret all that we have:

    –It’s not there, because there’s no “there” there, so the speculation comes to naught.
    –It is there, and max shock value is in order here.

    Both are legit interpretations. I’m going to chill for the next 48 hours+ so I don’t go insane. Plus, I’m not getting any more Dontos love.

  177. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Great. Now it’s logging me out and even when I put info in AGAIN, it’s eating my comments. I wish we were given some rhyme or reason as to why they get sent to moderation. My last comment wasn’t long and it didn’t have any links so what’s the problem?

    Sigh.

    Testing to see if this one goes through.

  178. Eddard Stark II
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Greatjon of Slumber,

    Screw LSH, if i don’t see Hodor’s junk i will riot!

  179. Canis Dirus
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Greatjon of Slumber,

    Well said….well said. I shall go about living the next 48 hours of my life unconcerned.

  180. Ser Florian
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    Canis Dirus,

    I’m gonna spend it binge watching the whole series from the first episode… Or maybe just season 4.

  181. Canis Dirus
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    Ser Florian,

    Also a respectable action to take.

  182. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    jentario:
    Annara Snow,

    Or something.
    Your mindset is that D&D are the biggest trolls ever and prefer to drive book readers crazy than to actually set storylines up. I’m starting to believe that particular scene is delayed to next season.

    It could be. But it’s also the most out-of-nowhere moment in the saga, whether one likes or dislikes it. (Death is so final. Life, on the other hand, is full of possibilities.) And sometimes, TV shows like to engage in genuine WTF moments, no? This one does. The end of Oathkeeper, for instance? Or, as I was thinking at the time…

    “Wait, where’s the horse going…interesting, the baby isn’t crying. Can White Walkers keep babies warm? He’s so content…this is a long trip. I know they like to put disparate characters together, but the White Walkers don’t exactly converse…that horse is going to slip on that big sheet of ice…where the hell are they…no, the baby is going to get cold…wait…what’s….what the…OMG WTF!!?!”

    So, y’know. Just sayin’.

    Of course, if it isn’t, so much of it is great, so who cares.

    Plus, I hear Hot Pie hooks up with that brothel owner from Mole’s Town.

  183. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    I have slight hopes for LS but am going in expecting the worst so not to be disappointed. Hopefully it will be next season.

    People also shouldn’t expect Balon’s death. It will happen whenever they reintroduce the Iron Islands. Presumably next season but until we get confirmation who knows.

  184. Eddard Stark II
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    IT WENT THROUGH!!!

  185. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    The benefits of saving LS until the end of next season, far outweigh including her this season, IMO. I thought for a while, earlier this season, that Brienne would meet her in the finale, and next season would see her bring Jaime to meet her. However, since we found out about Jaime’s detour to Dorne, I have amended that view. Now it makes no sense to tease the unsullied with her appearance in the finale, when she would only have the same screen time that Yara has had the past 2 seasons.

  186. Harry Lime
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    I think a lot of people are overlooking the fact that LS and the Tysha scene are things that are going to happen very late in the episode, so there will be plenty of time to “recap” them within the conversations in the episode.

  187. fuelpagan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap: i

    We who have read the books associate the Brotherhood with Lady Stoneheart. If they had shown the brotherhood in the preview, the sullied would know what that means. We know Stannis is going north. We know Arya is heading to Bravos. We are questioning will Lady Stoneheart appear. That’s why showing the BwB would be a spoiler. Whenever she does appear…I hope D&D don’t throw a BwB clip in the preview.

  188. Balon01
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    From Superherohype forum (episode 10 spoiler!):

    lime: And you know what! I lied, Lady Stoneheart IS in the episode. I said she is not there to everyone who asked so they watch the episode ”knowing” she is not there, and BAM!

    Now you are at square one! I might have told the truth the first time, or I might be telling it now. You will all find out in two days.

    :DDD

  189. Interior bannisters
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    Harry Lime:
    I think a lot of people are overlooking the fact that LS and the Tysha scene are things that are going to happen very late in the episode, so there will be plenty of time to “recap” them within the conversations in the episode.

    Maybe they will have a short council meeting in the beginning of the episode. Where they talk about the goings on such as Daenerys sending Mormont away and the BWB causing new trouble with a rumored devil woman leading them named Lady Stoneheart. Sigh, im deluding myself now lol

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    The benefits of saving LS until the end of next season, far outweigh including her this season, IMO. I thought for a while, earlier this season, that Brienne would meet her in the finale, and next season would see her bring Jaime to meet her. However, since we found out about Jaime’s detour to Dorne, I have amended that view. Now it makes no sense to tease the unsullied with her appearance in the finale, when she would only have the same screen time that Yara has had the past 2 seasons.

    I disagree with this. I think LS might be in season 5 instead, but I don’t think its a big deal to bring her in now. The whole mystery of LS is that she is in the peripherals of the story with only small scenes every now and then. Shes like the white walkers.

    Balon01:
    From Superherohype forum (episode 10 spoiler!):

    lime: And you know what! I lied, Lady Stoneheart IS in the episode. I said she is not there to everyone who asked so they watch the episode ”knowing” she is not there, and BAM!

    Now you are at square one! I might have told the truth the first time, or I might be telling it now. You will all find out in two days.

    :DDD

    My emotions are haywire right now. DAMN IT WHY IS EP10 NOT NOW

  190. fuelpagan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    The benefits of saving LS until the end of next season, far outweigh including her this season, IMO. I thought for a while, earlier this season, that Brienne would meet her in the finale, and next season would see her bring Jaime to meet her. However, since we found out about Jaime’s detour to Dorne, I have amended that view. Now it makes no sense to tease the unsullied with her appearance in the finale, when she would only have the same screen time that Yara has had the past 2 seasons.

    Jaime’s not going to spend the whole season in Dorne. He’ll borrow Littlefinger’s jet pack and be in the Riverlands in no time.

  191. John M W
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    Guys, nobody’s seen the episode yet. Stop getting roped in by these charlatans.

    From what I can ascertain (I’ve been avoiding details of “potential” spoilers), this latest guy said something wasn’t happening, and then he said he lied and it is happening.

    That just means he’s completely unreliable and nobody should be listening to a word he’s saying (er, typing).

    Chill. We’ve got 2 more days. Then you’ll know.

  192. YezzanZoQaggaz
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Episode 9 Recap – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDOH3Qs99Lw

    I think the choice of dialog for Brienne is pretty revealing as to the possibility of LS :)

  193. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    YezzanZoQaggaz,

    Except the most important part of that scene, which is that she is going to the Vale. Unless the BWB is in the Vale, she won’t be running into them.

  194. mariamb
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    Exactly. If the BWB were in the recap, that would be confirmation of LS. As a book reader, I enjoy some of the unexpected moments that we get….like the Nights King or whoever that was.

    Greatjon of Slumber,

    Agree. It’s the WTF aspect of LS that makes me want to see her in the show. From a narrative perspective, I don’t much care for it. I also don’t care if Tysha is mentioned. And I’m a little concerned about the supposed Arya/Hound and Brienne/Pod meet-up. We all have our preferences.

  195. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    What we’re unclear of here on the LS thing is that D&D have the ultimate power to try to influence the audience’s expectations here, even if ours resides where we want, in the expectation of this happening. So yes, we don’t see the men of the BWB, and that makes us believe it is not going to happen — and we’ll have to see where the luck resides, on the side of those who believe it’s coming or not.

  196. yup
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    i will mute this damn recap before the show…

  197. Tatters
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    I he is leaving its not because the show is to air its best episode. People will go maniac.
    I bet its complaints about Dany and Jon.

  198. Oberyn Wan Kenobi
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    hath4:
    why would they ever mention the brotherhood with out banners in the recap. That would be a gigantic giveaway. Cat was mentioned specifically by brienne in the recap. The part about pledging to cat to bring her sansa and arya. hmm seems like that could be a pretty big hint there.

    ^ this

  199. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    I can already see it. The greatest episode in the history of the show, quite possibly, and yet most of the comments will be about how there was no LS and how D&D ruined the series because of it.

  200. House Ray
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    OK so many “leaks” and back and forth. I’m voting no on LS – I don’t expect her and I’ll be happy without it. I can’t let it distract me from the good stuff that will happen!

  201. John M W
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    yup:
    i will mute this damn recap before the show…

    I’m not going to mute it, but I’m definitely going to plan a strategically placed distraction for my Unsullied family members during the Stannis bit.

  202. JTargs
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    Hmm so no brotherhood in the recap…. however Brienne and Pods dialogue seems pretty choicey to me. Two mentions of catelyn stark. Also, no tyrion telling his tysha story in the recap!!! Is it possible that wherever whores go will be cut!? Or are they just trying to make it as not obvious as possible? I can’t see why they would have had tyrion tell the story in season two if they weren’t going to put this in

  203. mariamb
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    Greatjon of Slumber,

    Absolutely brilliant!

  204. Matt Sinopoli
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    Damn can’t believe the recap spoils the Stannis reveal. I’ll definitely be muting the TV for everyone I’m watching with.

    The lack of BWB in the recap makes me really sad. The Emmy PDF and this recap have me convinced that LS is not in the episode. I’m going to try to accept that she’s been cut now, so that I can still enjoy the rest of the episode.

  205. Throner
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    Let’s just say there is an LS appearance this episode. It could be possible that after brienne’s run in with arya, She tells LS that she almost “saved” arya and LS may see this as a breach of her vows and order her hanged

  206. Matt Sinopoli
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    hath4:
    why would they ever mention the brotherhood with out banners in the recap. That would be a gigantic giveaway.

    That would almost be as big of a giveaway as the Stannis scene that they did include in the recap, LOL

  207. Sister Wrister
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    jentario:
    Recap is out. No BWB. You all know what that means…

    jentario:
    Annara Snow,

    Are the two mutually exclusive? They aren’t really

    Is the recap inclusion of BWB a necessary condition for the LS reveal?

    I think not. I do understand your point, but I will remain hopeful!

    I’m feeling about as geeked as I did last year prior to the red wedding.

    STOKED

  208. MC
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    A lot of people here are whining about the inevitable whining on Monday if there is no LSH. The fact is that if it is cut or even simply delayed, the fault is on D&D because an otherwise excellent and unmatched episode will be overshadowed by the lack of that one thing. That inevitable great cry of the sullied will likewise contribute to spoiling the unsullied if they choose to delay until next season, which will lessen the shock value that makes the reveal so great. It has to be now or never.

  209. Sister Wrister
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Greatjon of Slumber,

    Holy shit, well said! Hear, hear!!!

  210. Turncloak
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    I can already see it. The greatest episode in the history of the show, quite possibly, and yet most of the comments will be about how there was no LS and how D&D ruined the series because of it.

    I will greatly enjoy it. Can’t wait for Stannis the Mannis

  211. sati
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    MC,

    And that is why it would be a horrible mistake to leave her out

  212. Matt
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    Parsnip,

    The only reason Mhysa was a let down for me was because it ended on such a stupid note. There was no magic, no WOW WTF moment, nothing.

    Season 1 ended with dragons: “HOLY SHIT WTF!!!”
    Season 2 ended with White Walker: “HOLY SHIT WW IN THE FLESH! WTF?!?!”
    Season 3 ended with a bunch of slaves opening up their doors and Dany doing a stupid crowd surf while the dragons flew around. Suffice to say a lot of people didn’t feel the “magic” of such a lame happy go-Dany! Moment.

    Now Season 4 has another chance to use LS, and by God they better take it. I can’t handle another season ending with a stupid happy uplifting scene. That’s not what GOT is about. It’s about a big surprise, a twist a big reveal that shocks and makes you say WTF

  213. Sister Wrister
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I am firmly in the camp of I really fucking wanna see her , but complaining on the flipside will not be my approach. There is always season 5! Late as that may be……….

  214. Sister Wrister
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    And yes, we have MUCH to look forward to

  215. Ragman's Harbor
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Trust D&D.

  216. Eddard Stark II
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Matt,

    NO IT’S NOT! It’s about the characters, it’s about the story. The big surprises are just a bonus and if you’re watching it just to be surprised you’re watching it for the wrong reasons.

  217. ash
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    spacechampion,

    Waaaaaaah! Wonder how quickly I can get my passport renewed and head up north. sigh. That would have been loads of fun.

  218. jentario
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    hath4,

    No it wouldn’t. There has been literally no set up for Stoneheart, so there is no way any Unsullied could even begin to guess it based on the BWB appearing in the recap. And if you call THAT a spoiler, what would you call Stannis’s recap scene? Now that’s a spoiler. They aren’t shying away from it. They are doing what they think they should do in order to set up the episode.

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    It really is sad. Why take this risk? It could have been the crowning moment of the show with Stobeheart included and now, even though the episode will still likely be one of if not the best of the entire show there is just no way book readers will appreciate it. I can see all the rants already… And the worst thing is that they’ll be completely justified, since cutting that aspect of the story is highly controversial.

    I wish they wily have just outright confirmed it after season 3. If she’s in, say so. If she’s out, say so. Keeping us out of the loop here would completely overshadow the quality of the episode if the scene isn’t there- whether it’s cut or delayed. People just won’t let it go.

    I just hope we’re wrong and we’ll get that scene in the end. That would be so good…

  219. Eddard Stark II
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    MC,

    I have a feeling that you’re one of those people who are just waiting for something like this just to hate on D&D.

  220. Arriba
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    Having LS appear two years after Cat’s dead takes all the punch away from the moment of her appearance. If they don’t show it next episode I’d rather it’s cut unless she has something important to do. I was pissed last year tbh but I understood the decision. If they make the same this year I think it would be a mistake

  221. strokememarge
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    WiC needs to start a bring back Aimee crusade, she has been excellent as Myrcella and has grown into a stunningly beautiful young woman. The fans adore her and she has been a good ambassador showing up at cons. Enough with the casting changes.
    In fact Aimee looks older than Nell Tiger by 2-3 years, which is better for the aging up of Trystane.

  222. feyrband
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Sister Wrister,

    I keep saying the same thing about Strong Belwas

  223. John M W
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    Eddard Stark II:
    Matt,

    NO IT’S NOT! It’s about the characters, it’s about the story. The big surprises are just a bonusand if you’re watching it just to be surprised you’re watching it for the wrong reasons.

    This. A large part of the reason why I like the ending of “Mhysa” is because it’s an ending to the season, not merely a big shocking tease for the next one. Closure is nice on occasion.

    In any case, it’s not like this year’s ratings suffered for Season 3 not ending on an OMG *gasp* closing shot (though, I must say, I’m actually quite a fan of that gorgeous final shot of the episode).

  224. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    sati,

    Is it the shock factor that people want to see? Because she certainly has not played a major role in the past 2 books. She appears briefly in 1 chapter, that is all. Blame GRRM for introducing her and doing nothing with the character in the next 2 books. Had she had a larger role, maybe it would be an easier decision to include her in season 4.

  225. MC
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    Eddard Stark II,

    On the contrary, I am a great fan of D&D and think that most of their adaptation has been excellent. I am only pointing out that if it is not in this episode, it would be a major misstep on their part.

  226. Eddard Stark II
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

    MC,

    Well i disagree and i’m sorry if i offended.

  227. strokememarge
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    YezzanZoQaggaz,

    Damnit all to hell and back, after watching that recap there probably will be no LS, because the recap would have had scenes with you know who in it. If the show ends on another weak forgettable non-wtf moment it will be a travesty to fans. D&D absolutely know the book fans are waiting for the SoS ending and to not provide the ultimate wtf climatic moment ever created in genre literature is a slap at us. I predict the out roar will rock the internet for weeks and will overshadow any positives from the episode. GRRM totally handed to HBO the perfect season ending scene ever created for tv, for D&D to not capitalize would be the greatest mistake in this greatest of series. My God D&D would never live it down, all they would hear at interviews would be the question why? I agree with MC it will be the greatest misstep in D&D career.

  228. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    MC,

    So because crazy, overzealous book fans will look to spoil unsullied, it is D&D’s fault? Like I said earlier, blame GRRM for doing absolutely nothing with the character for 2 whole books.

  229. Bittersteel
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    Most of the book readers on this site make it sound like all book readers like Stannis. I personally hate Stannis and I hope the show writers don’t make him likable because I will hate the fucking tv series. It is nice to have little of that miserable motherfucker on screen as possible. This tv show needs more Bran time.

  230. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    Bloodraven > Lady Stoneheart.

  231. ash
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    Eddard Stark II:
    Matt,
    This

    NO IT’S NOT! It’s about the characters, it’s about the story. The big surprises are just a bonusand if you’re watching it just to be surprised you’re watching it for the wrong reasons.

  232. moizoos
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    Regarding the “leak”, the lime guy said he got a link for TCA voting, amongst others awards. As far as I know (and I’m no expert) they didn’t send advanced screeners to TCA members. If he had left some ambiguity that he got an advanced copy for Emmy voting, which ends next week and The Children is up for, then I’d be more willing to entertain the possibility. But considering he went back on something he said AND there’s been so many people claiming to see the episode, we’ve got to look at this guy with a HUGE grain of salt.

    That being said:
    I’m one of those people who really want to see LS, so maybe I’ll do anything to convince myself she is in the finale. What will she do for the first half of next season? I don’t know, but the writers didn’t care about that when they ended season 2 with the White Walkers. Plus, what’s Brienne going to do all next season? Look for Sansa? Book readers hated that, and show watchers are probably going to hate it even more coming off a season where Brienne was already looking for the Starks. And a LS reveal is not episode 4 ending material. It’s season ending material.

  233. Eddard Stark II
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    strokememarge,

    Doubt it. I think the coversation about the shocking endings just happened, scroll up.

  234. MC
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    Eddard Stark II,

    You didn’t. I know there are a lot of people around here who unleash hell anytime D&D change a single thread in the adaptation — I’m not trying to do that. But I’m curious to know why you think that delaying/cutting would be a good thing.

  235. MC
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    D&D would have made the decision to cut or delay nevertheless, knowing that those who have read ASOS will wonder why the epilogue is missing when they have pushed through so many other storylines. You say to blame GRRM for the character’s absence, but absence/lack of content has not stopped D&D from creating something out of nothing. The absence in further books would not diminish the value of doing the reveal now, where it belongs.

  236. Eddard Stark II
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    MC,

    I mean sure the reveal would be epic but then what? We get a whole season of her just hanging people. I would rather have more scenes with other, more interesting, characters and then have her come in when the story calls for it.

  237. wizardeyes
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Hell yeah.

  238. Blind Beth
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    So I am incredibly stoked about this episode, I don’t think I’ve been this excited to watch something since the first LOTR came out :-D :-D :-D.

    BUT I have a couple of things nagging at me…

    1) I have to watch the brutal Jamie –> Tyrion revelation and watch one of my favorite characters brutally murder one of my favorite (in the show) minor characters. (WHY can’t the doomed lovers just TALK IT OUT???) I know I’ll be amply rewarded for enduring that, but still.

    2) I’m really hoping that they don’t leave Tyrion in the Red Keep at the end, because that is 40+ weeks wherein I can’t tell my husband what happens to him. PLEASE get T on the ship, D&D! Holding back the torrent of spoilers is hard enough anyway!

  239. Ashara D
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    MC:
    It has to be now or never.

    Why? Only GRRM and D&D know the importance of the character to the end game. If she is important, then they will bring her in when she is needed to advance the plot, just like they did with the Reeds. This is tv, not a novel.

    I’m looking forward to many great moments in this next episode, but I refuse to let my book expectations ruin my enjoyment of the story as it is portrayed on the show! Whatever happens will be EPIC. Events that don’t happen just remain to be revealed in future episodes; or, by their absence, convey more insight into events to come in the books. I see it as a win-win, not something to whine about. Perspective, people. Just enjoy the ride!!

  240. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    Ashara D,

    Well said.

    I will allow however that ending on a big WTF moment does close things well and drive anticipation for what is to come. It may not happen. But I’m not going to let it spoil my enjoyment and I’m not going to let it dominate my viewing on Sunday. They may want to end on poignance as well. But if you spend the episode sitting with a time clock you’re going to be massively upset. Because checking off boxes is no way to watch a show. Enjoy what you will see, not what your mind has convinced you is your birthright.

  241. strokememarge
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

    Now that I got my rant over with, and have taken a deep relaxing breath, I should have realized this weeks ago. Brienne going directly to the Vale from Crossroads meant she had bypassed the Riverlands completely and the BwB and LS story lines.
    It is assumed that book Brienne will head for the Vale in Winds therefore D&D have decided to go directly to her Winds chapter not passing go and not collecting either LS or Jaime. I guess the Blackfish will show up in the Vale, after all they cannot have the character disappear at the RW and even mention it w/o eventually bringing him back. As for Jaime, get used to it book readers, he is going to Dorne and staying there according to rumors, no Riverrun, no Brienne, at least concerning the LS arc. Where the series goes forward from season five onward will be a complete mystery to book fans, as I believe D&D will revise the Essos story also, why keep the worst part of Dragons (Dany’s chapters) and throw out the totally awesome LS story.

  242. Mark Hogan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    I desperately want to believe all the hype about this episode. I want it to be the best the series has ever produced. I was super stoked for this episode all Season.

    But now, I’ve decided to go in expecting disappointment. I don’t think any episode of GoT has ever had both the potential for ultimate greatness and the potential for tremendous disappointment to this extent.

    I’m not at all excited by the prospect of this Brienne VS Hound situation, because I’m worried that Arya won’t leave the Hound like in the books, and I’m starting to get concerned by all these Arya kills Pod rumors.

    The Tysha reveal may be left out, again if the rumors are to be believed and if the recap is any indication, which would be a catastrophe in my opinion

    Both the Bran and Dany stuff has potential for awesomeness, but I could totally see those sequences being rushed and/or done in an underwhelming way, and I worry the Bran stuff might be waaaay too fantasy-ish for some Unsullied, who probably have no fucking idea what the Children of the Forest are, or why this reveal matters, and won’t give a shit.

    Plus, given how the show has dealt with magic in the past, and with Bran’s stuff in particular, I fully expect the Bloodraven/Children material to be super confusing for the Unsullied.

    Finally, the chances of LS showing up are approximately 6.4 %, and even though I have been bracing myself for over a year for the possibility (probability) that she will be cut, it’ll still be disappointing.
    Even if she is in, it’s very hard to get the tone right for that sort of reveal, and to do it in such a way that people won’t find it trashy, and won’t say the show jumped the shark.

    Anyway, rant over, sorry for bringing down the mood, but I think anyone who wants to enjoy the episode as much as possible should bring their expectations DOWN. Way down. The hype for this episode has been ridiculously intense, and if they fuck it up, the letdown will be the shitstorm of the century.

  243. Ramsayreek
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    Wow so for all of the incredible amazing events that are going to unfold in this episode, literally every other comment is just people foaming at the mouth about LSH? Thats is so minor compared to everything else. Let’s discuss Bloodraven and what Bran may see. Or what the outcome of the possible encounter between the Hound and Brienne. Or STANNIS! Or how we think the chaining of the dragons will play out. Enough with the redundant LSH already.

  244. Ser Florian
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

    strokememarge,

    Assumptions and rumours? As they say, words are wind… none of it is certain. Why would book Brienne be going to the Vale in Winds? Why is that assumed? Isn’t she taking Jaime to Lady Stoneheart last we heard? Will LS just say “thanks for that, on you go”? And a single line in a leaked audition, and that line being one character saying they heard a rumour about Jaime, doesn’t mean Jaime is going to Dorne and staying there.

    No LS in the finale doesn’t mean no LS in the show. Unless Michelle Fairley is refusing to come back, we’ll get her eventually, or have someone take her place.

  245. Hodor Targaryen
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    I think the Tysha scene was left out of the previously on because it’s really difficult to squeeze in. If I remember correctly it’s a pretty lengthy monologue, hard to snip parts of it together to make it understandanle and part of a segment that already has to catch up on so many storylines.

    Trying to remember, did they mention Tysha in an earlier episode this season? I seem to remember a Tyrion/Jaime convo in “Mockingbird” where Tyrion says something, and the look on Jaime’s face made me say to myself “He’s thinking about Tysha!” Does anyone remember?

  246. Abyss
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    strokememarge,

    Someone making a claim on Tumblr is hardly a reason to start a crusade… Let’s wait if WIC hears something from HBO.

  247. Kay
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

    With the confidence that D&D seem to be displaying in this episode, together with that preview, this Unsullied viewer is almost unbearably excited about Sunday’s episode. No amount of complaining/negativity by a few book readers is going to bring down my excitement. I have not been this excited about a GoT episode ever! Perhaps the only thing I dread is that the Fire (Daenerys/dragons) and Ice (Bran and Co.) stories will be rushed, given how much else seems to be covered in this episode. I can’t wait to see every second of Tyrion’s scenes, I missed them dreadfully in Episode 9 after that cliffhanger in The Mountain and the Viper (though I enjoyed the attack on the Wall last episode).

    9 pm Sunday, please come soon!

  248. Eddard Stark II
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    strokememarge,

    What story?! She has a few scenes in the books. I’m not a big Dany fan but i rather watch what they do with her story than LSH.

  249. Ser Florian
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    Hodor Targaryen,

    I do remember the look, from Jaime. But I can’t remember if it was to do with Tysha, or to do with Kinslaying… Though I’d lean towards the latter. Makes me think, maybe Jaime’s killing of Alton Lannister will come back, somehow.

  250. JamesL
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    MC,

    No it’s not, she is a stupid character and lame plot twist that D&D have rightfully removed from the story. Michelle Fairly probably would have never played the role anyway. Why would she? She would have to work her schedule around appearing on GoT every year for a few scenes to play some silly zombie like character. This is an issue everybody keeps forgetting. Nobody even thinks about what Michelle Fairly’s opinion is on playing a character like this. The Red Wedding was a year ago and the unsullied have moved on, randomly throwing in undead Cat at the end of this season would be considered a really lame plot twist by most of them.

  251. Polish
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    Guys, all it takes is a little critical thinking to realize there’s not going to be any Tysha. If there was going to be, it would have been mentioned earlier in the season. There’s a scene where Jaime and Tyrion are talking in his cell about Shae’s betrayal… “I feel in love with a whore”. If Tysha was in the picture, there would have been a “its not the first time”, or something similar to that said. The only thing it will change is on what terms Tyrion and Jaime separate on. And Varys. Given how the show has gone so far, I feel as if he will be on good terms with both.

    Dragons Tyrion is so bitter and angry and demented… and I just don’t see that in show Tyrion. The characterization is different. Its great in the show, I even prefer it. But the character doesn’t have the same motivations in the book and the adaption.

    As far as Stoneheart goes — my suspicion is Lena got it from a Season 5 script she read. LS next year.

  252. Fuelpagan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    No LS in the finally will not ruin the show, but I won’t be able call the episode “great”.

    mariamb,

    To me, it sure sounds like Beric’s voice saying “The dead can’t hear us”.

  253. Polish
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    Hodor Targaryen:

    Trying to remember, did they mention Tysha in an earlier episode this season? I seem to remember a Tyrion/Jaime convo in “Mockingbird” where Tyrion says something, and the look on Jaime’s face made me say to myself “He’s thinking about Tysha!” Does anyone remember?

    Yes there is that line about I fell in love with a whore. But it doesn’t matter. If they had brought it up then, then you would know it was coming.

    Think about it this way — show peeps haven’t heard about Tysha since Season… 1? And for it to suddenly become a HUGE motivation for Tyrion would be just too out of left field, and it wouldn’t make any sense to probably 80% of the audience. The writing is on the wall. Think of it as analogous to the dragonhilt dagger. Gone since season 1… they didn’t bother to include it because the ship had sailed. Perhaps they’ll have Jaime fess up to Tyrion about a different betrayal, if they want to maintain the bad feeling goodbye from the book.

  254. Mark Hogan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    Polish,

    When she posted it Season 5 scripts were not complete. They are now, but the actors still don’t have them, even though they do know some things, like how many episodes they’ll be in (Anton Lesser who plays Qyburn knows)

    The absence of the Tysha reveal would change a LOT. It would fundamentally change Tyrion’s character, not just the bitterness, but also the underlying thing that has been haunting him, which is that he has always had a hard time believing anyone could love him. He let himself believe it with Tysha and Shae, and both times it turned out to be false. Or so he thought. The reveal that Tysha DID love him is critical to that aspect of Tyrion.

    I also suspect that there is a reason GRRM had Tyrion and Jaime part on these horrible terms. And I don’t think it would be dramatically interesting to remove that, especially with how they have built up their relationship this year.

    But the biggest thing that would change if the reveal is removed, is Tyrion’s primary motivation for killing Tywin. The fact that in that moment he is so utterly enraged that he basically loses all ability to control his anger. The show would need to find a new way to justify this. Which would probably make less sense.

    Because of all of this, I really think no Tysha would be a HUGE mistake.
    GRRM didn’t put it in there for shits and giggles.

    It is extremely important.

  255. JamesL
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    John M W,

    There are people who manage to see episodes early even the ones that aren’t sent to most critics. HBO didn’t send the Red Wedding episode out to critics either but there was a guy on IMDB who saw it gave a very detailed account of the episode before it aired. Nobody believed either and then it aired and he was not lying.

  256. ReadJunk
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    the “dead can’t hear us” sounds Irish to me. So could be Ciaran Hinds, Liam Cunnigham or Richard Dormer. Doesn’t sound like Aiden Gillen to me and could be Stephan Dillane but then his accent must be going in and out.

  257. Mark Hogan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

    Fuelpagan,

    No. It’s definitely Tormund. Let’s put this ridiculous Beric stuff to bed now.

  258. ReadJunk
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    Mark Hogan,

    yeah you’re right, forgot about him

  259. Solderai
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    If they do it right, it is going to be THE EPISODE

  260. Sunfyre
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

    Mark Hogan,

    I hear what you’re saying. I’m trying to go in with lowered expectations so I can be pleasantly surprised.

    It’s interesting — in a sense this is the moment when D&D have the most power over the book readers. The end of ASOS is considered by many to be the undisputed high-point of the series. The adaptation choices D&D make here are like walking a tightrope. Everyone is so invested in seeing these moments play out on screen and be “good” or “awesome”.

    You can feel a palpable sense that some book readers are going to go friggin ballistic if Lady Stoneheart isn’t in. I want her to appear too but man I don’t envy D&D right now. So much potential for greatness or failure in the eyes of hyper-invested book readers.

  261. Polish
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:13 pm | Permalink

    Mark Hogan:
    Polish,

    When she posted it Season 5 scripts were not complete. They are now, but the actors still don’t have them, even though they do know some things, like how many episodes they’ll be in (Anton Lesser who plays Qyburn knows)

    The absence of the Tysha reveal would change a LOT. It would fundamentally change Tyrion’s character, not just the bitterness, but also the underlying thing that has been haunting him, which is that he has always had a hard time believing anyone could love him. He let himself believe it with Tysha and Shae, and both times it turned out to be false. Or so he thought. The reveal that Tysha DID love him is critical to that aspect of Tyrion.

    I also suspect that there is a reason GRRM had Tyrion and Jaime part on these horrible terms. And I don’t think it would be dramatically interesting to remove that, especially with how they have built up their relationship this year.

    But the biggest thing that would change if the reveal is removed, is Tyrion’s primary motivation for killing Tywin. The fact that in that moment he is so utterly enraged that he basically loses all ability to control his anger. The show would need to find a new way to justify this. Which would probably make less sense.

    Because of all of this, I really think no Tysha would be a HUGE mistake.
    GRRM didn’t put it in there for shits and giggles.

    It is extremely important.

    I’m not saying its not important, or that it won’t change things, or etc. I’d just say it’s pretty unlikely. Don’t worry, I’ll go full Thenn if I’m wrong. But you have to consider the medium. This is television. They don’t bring something from 3 years ago and turn it into the key element of a scene. Room is so tight in these episode that almost all exposition has to be important down the road, and all glaring absences of exposition are also signs of what is to come. I suspect the Shae element + Tywin condemning Tyrion to death + Tywin’s going to say some fucked up shit to him is going to be what leads Tyrion to pulling the trigger. Remember how built up the Shae thing is in the show. That’s going to be it.

    I mean, Tysha was last mentioned in the episode where Ned lost his head. In Season 1! It’s not coming up, brace for it, and its just the nature of the beast in these adaptions.

  262. Mark Hogan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    To all those saying that Tysha hasn’t been mentioned since Season 1 :

    She hasn’t been mentioned by name, but has been alluded to twice in Season 3

    “Kissed by Fire” dialogue extract from the scene where Tywin tells Tyrion he is to marry Sansa :

    -Tywin : It is past time you were wed.
    -Tyrion : I WAS wed. Or don’t you remember ?
    -Tywin : Only too well.

    “The Bear and the Maiden Fair” extract from Bronn and Tyrion discussing Tyrion’s future marriage :

    -Bronn : Shae is a whore ! You gonna marry her ? How did marrying a whore work out for you the last time ?
    -Tyrion : I should never have told you about that.

  263. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    I can’t believe people think they will leave the Tysha reveal out. It is the reason Tyrion makes a detour from his escape to enter Tywin’s chamber. Not only that, but his previous marriage has been brought up multiple times in the show. One of the longest monologues in the show’s history was dedicated to it in season 1. Last season, Tyrion angrily told his father “I was married! Or have you forgotten?” And this season, after Jaime tells him he fell in love with a whore, Tyrion responds “Yes, I fell in love with a whore. And I was stupid enough to believe she had fallen in love with me.” The camera then immediately cuts to Jaime’s reaction, and his expression is of regret, that he knows something, and is ashamed of it.

  264. Polish
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    Agree to disagree. But this is all just fun speculation leading up to the episode. If I’m wrong I’ll be happy. I’m just doing my best to predict what’s going to happen.

  265. JamesL
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    Mark Hogan,

    This is not the books though and TV Tyrion is not the same as book Tyrion. He is also extremely ugly in the books which effects his character but that is not the case for TV Tyrion. Most of the audience does not even remember the Tysha story from season 1. We are not in his head for the TV show therefore they cannot translate this whole Tysha thing and what it means to Tyrion so this reveal will not hold the same dramatic weight as it does in the books. I recently reread the finale Tyrion/Tywin showdown because I forgot exactly how it goes down. I found it kind of lacking actually and will have no issues if they plan on changing it. In fact I think it needs to be changed because as I’ve said the Tysha thing does not hold the same dramatic weight in the show as it does in the books.

  266. Hath4
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    Tysha was mentioned in season 3 I was we’d farther do you remember?

  267. Mark Hogan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    Polish,

    You make very good points about the issue of it seeming like it’s out of the blue, and how this is a very different medium, and I’m the first one to say it may very well be cut. I just think it would be a big loss.

    Also read the comment I just posted about the Tysha mentions in Season 3

  268. Ser Florian
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    Polish,

    She was mentioned again in season 3, in a conversation between Bronn and Tyrion… something along the lines of:

    Bronn: “How did marrying a whore work out for you the first time?”

    Tyrion: “I should never have told you about that.”

    The Tysha reveal could still easily be included in the finale… just as it is in the books. Tyrion asking Jaime why he’d free him, and Jaime saying it’s because he owed Tyrion for his first wife, Tysha. Tyrion says “what, for hiring me a whore?”, and then Jaime spills the truth.

  269. gewa76
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    I was thinking along the same lines. Wouldn’t it be deliciously ironic if they did have a Lady Stoneheart reveal, and it became synonymous in viewers’ minds with GoT jumping the shark? I can even picture Sullied recording their friends’ reactions to post on YouTube, and they just get a “Meh. That was stupid.”. That’s not to say I hate LS and hope they cut her. But I ain’t gonna go bonkers if she is cut.

  270. A Man Apart ... From his Skin
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

    Well. Looks like my unsullied wife won’t be allowed to watch the previously on for the finale. Dead Giveaway with the Stannis bit.

  271. JamesL
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    Hath4,

    The fact that Tyrion was married in the past was brought up but that’s it. She was not mentioned by name and the Tysha story was not retold to audience to remind them.

  272. Eddard Stark II
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I was about to ask if i missed something. Why this conversation happening? What makes people think Tysha isn’t happening?

  273. Ser Florian
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

    Eddard Stark II,

    Because there was no Tysha reminder in the pre-episode recap, and it hasn’t been spoonfed to the viewers in previous episodes this season… so the thought is it isn’t being prepped for, so it’s out.

  274. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    You worry far too much about what the most casual of viewers will think, and whether they will be confused. Fuck em’! I’m not worried about the viewer who thinks Daenerys’ name is Kelly C.

  275. Canal Cat
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    The Emmy submission for prosthetics mentioned an ear INJURY, not a bite. Prosthetics are only used in certain cases. It would be really sad to see the Hound and Brienne fight each other, after all they have done and are trying to do for the two Stark daughters. In the books, they were fighting some of the worst villains in the series when the two different ear incidents happened. And Sandor was already bitten once.

  276. JamesL
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

    Am I the only one still hoping they bring back Jaqen to be Arya’s teacher in Braavos? I’m would love to see a surprise appearance from Tom Wlaschiha(Jaqen) in the finale but I think he has been busy filming another show.

  277. Ser Florian
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    Canal Cat,

    Someone suggested that, instead of fighting each other, their confrontation could be interrupted by Mountain Men, them being in the Vale and all, leading to them BOTH fighting side by side, to protect Arya (and themselves, obviously). At some point the Hound goes rolling off a cliff with one of the Mountain Men, Arya stays to fight but is forced to flee, Brienne is unable to follow for whatever reason. That’d be a damn good twist to it.

  278. spacechampion
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

    Richard:
    spacechampion,
    - cineplex canada simul casting show on screens

    Ok, movie theater simul casting a TV series. Has that been done before? I know MMA and other one time events get simul case, but “just” a TV show episode.

    I don’t know about theatres, but the Skydome played the final of Star Trek TNG on the jumbotron back in the day.

    Anyway, if anyone is going to the Mississauga Cineplex at Courtney Park, I’m meeting a fellow GOT fan there, getting a drink after we secure our tickets. You are welcome to join us!

  279. Eddard Stark II
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    Ser Florian,

    That’s also my theory. We’ll see.

  280. gewa76
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

    Here’s a thought that I’m almost too afraid to send out to the interwebs, for fear of universal scorn: How are we sure it’s Brienne and Sandor who will fight? Obviously it looks like they’ll meet up, but I seem to recall a BtS video that showed what looked like Knights of the Vale on horseback in the same filming location. What if they both fight the knights and get wounded, and that’s how Arya escapes? OMG somebody just posted that right before me, and I didn’t see it ’til I posted mine. HAHA

  281. Turncloak
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    Do you guys think we’ll see the Horn of Joramund in this episode or will it be cut?

    If it is cut, than I’ll be worried about Euron as his major play is his Dragon Horn. Which is the “fire” horn to the Joramund’s “ice” horn

  282. Ser Florian
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

    gewa76,

    Yeah, that was the impression I had before the first episode this season, from the promotional videos and trailers… that the Hound or Brienne would end up fighting Knights of the Vale. That’d be another possibility. It’s clear, I think, from the preview trailer, with Brienne’s armour just in the shot, and the themes in the Oathkeeper track, that the two will meet. But the outcome of it is up in the air… D&D could just be trying to mislead with it looking like they’ll fight.

  283. House Ray
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

    As much as I want to see the shock of LS, a person above I didn’t quote made a great point. It would be bad and the unsullied in general would be split on it. It is a jump the shark moment that is bad story telling. Plot convenience = movie suck to quote RedLetterMedia reviews. I’m happy it won’t be there (cause it won’t) and look forward to them condensing the future for a great season 5 :)

  284. Bastard of B-Town
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    Pretty sure its Beric talking, he is coming back for this season and season 5 too. They are either ditching Lady stoneheart entirely because its a bit silly or he will be along side her. He is such an interesting character and they could do so many awesome things with him. I dont like big changes from the book but this is one I would be down for.

  285. Ser Florian
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    How is LS any sillier than Beric being undead, and brought back from death infront of us? There are enough threads through the books for it to not be plot convenience. I really don’t see it as a jump the shark moment, especially in a series with Dragons, zombies, skinchangers, warlocks, giants, mammoths, magic swords, assassins that can change their faces, assassins of shadow birthed from sex on a map table, and a man being brought back from the dead already. And it’s not as if “hey! how convenient, we get Catelyn Stark back”, we get a completely different character.

  286. SkywalkerIsDead
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

    SPOILERS!!!!

    Turncloak,

    Turncloak:
    Can’t wait. Don’t know how I feel about The Hound vs Brienne. Partly because there was a troll on Westeros that said Arya would kill Podrick so I’m very nervous now

    I agree with you on not knowing how to feel. Big fan of both characters and I always wanted to see an interaction, but not in the way people are hinting. I am definitely more partial to The Hound and knowing what I know about the books, this does not look good for him. Will Brienne put the dog down? I think due to his infected bite Brienne will be able to take him. I am afraid the show will give him a more definitive fate and squash all book theories.

  287. Sister Wrister
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    feyrband,

    Not sure if this is sarcasm? Surely we can agree that SB and LS are other level shit….
    Speaking of Belwas, I think it would be cool to see a fighter resembling Belwas in the pits, but I don’t think we’ll get a character with any real lines

  288. House Ray
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

    I just did extensive research and the dead cant hear us is not Beric

  289. Sister Wrister
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    Sister Wrister:
    feyrband,

    Not sure if this is sarcasm?Surely we can agree that SB and LS are other level shit….
    Speaking of Belwas,I think it would be cool to see a fighter resembling Belwas in the pits, but I don’t think we’ll get a character with any real lines

    Turncloak,

    I cannot remember, and I’m confusing the books and show now…… Does Mance indeed have it? did Jon end up confiscating it?

  290. JamesL
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    Ser Florian,

    It’s sillier because when Beric is resurrected he is a normal human again, when Cat is resurrected she becomes a creepy/silly vengeful zombie-like character. Resurrection in itself is not silly, the character the resurrection turns Cat into is silly.

  291. Sister Wrister
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

    gewa76,

    I have been thinking about this and hoping for something like it. Vale knights or mountain clans, but the knights are prolly more likely. I’m not really into the hound/brienne fight as a plot adjustment but I’m sure it will be one helluva fight if it’s the case

  292. PrinceRhaegar
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    And what was Cat moments before she died?

  293. JamesL
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

    Bastard of B-Town,

    Pretty sure its Beric talking, he is coming back for this season and season 5 too

    No, that’s not Beric, it is Tormund. You have no idea if Beric is in this season or whether or not he will be in season 5 so stop making stuff up.

  294. Ser Florian
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    Sister Wrister,

    In the books, the Horn Mance claimed to Jon, in their parley, was the Horn of Winter, was seized by Stannis and burned, when they burned Rattleshirt as Mance. But Tormund later said that was no Horn of Winter, just some big giant horn. But, in the Dragonglass cache that Jon finds around the Fist of the First Men, there was another horn, which he gave to Sam.

    The Horn hasn’t been mentioned in the show, yet, could be during the finale. But, there was definitely a horn shown in the cache of Dragonglass that Sam found in season 2.

  295. Pedro
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    Don’t expect LS to be in and you’ll enjoy a lot more the fantastic episode that it’ll be.

    With or without that scene, there’ll be other 5 (!!!) to please us:

    Stannis’ arrival
    Brienne x The Hound
    Dany chaining her dragons
    Tyrion killing Tywin and Shae
    Children of the Forest

    Just chill.

  296. Ser Florian
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,

    But Beric isn’t a normal man. He loses some of himself whenever he’s brought back, his memories, his personality, but he’s brought back quickly each time (so it isn’t as severe as Stoneheart). He centres on the thing he’s doing each time he dies… trying to execute the mission given to him by Ned, in the name of King Robert, bringing Gregor Clegane to justice. It’s the same with Catelyn, but she’s gone for longer, and loses more. She’s entirely centred on the betrayal and murder of her son, and bringing vengeance on the Freys and everyone else involved.

  297. Greenjones
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

    Pedro,

    This. I’ve prepared myself mentally for the episode to end with Bran or Tyrion. That way if LSH shows up I’ll be pleasantly surprised and if she doesn’t, I won’t be quite so disappointed.

  298. Bittersteel
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 10:44 pm | Permalink

    I can already hear the cries of the book readers and the episode hasn’t even aired. I really don’t mind if they delay or cut the LS character, some of you are just looking for stuff to complain about and thats really sad.

  299. Saar
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:05 pm | Permalink

    I love how some of you are talking about how glad you are that Lady Stoneheart is cut, you’ll be in for a big suprise next sunday, mark my words ;)

  300. strokememarge
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:08 pm | Permalink

    Pedro,

    Don’t expect LS to be in and you’ll enjoy a lot more the fantastic episode that it’ll be.

    I am no longer expecting LS to be in it at all. Waiting till the end of next season will muck things up, and the LS reveal looses it’s impact during a season. It is an end of season wtf moment, that’s why it was at the close of SoS. I just don’t want another tepid forgettable climax like last season, and Dany chaining her children isn’t a wtf moment. Viewers expect the season to end with a mind numbing, sensory explosion like one and two were.

    Though to temper my depression, I still expect Arianne to be cast. Furthermore I anticipate the total removal of the Riverlands arc and the rumored Jaime’s stay in Dorne to replace it. Concerning the Blackfish, he can show up in the Vale.

  301. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:22 pm | Permalink

    strokememarge,

    I’ve edited several of your posts but please make an effort to cover your spoilers going forward. Thanks!

  302. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

    I want the dark wrath that only a grieving, raging Mhysa can have.

    I want the fiery wrath of the flying, violent children who are wary of chains.

    I want the building wrath and spiraling darkness of the desperate dwarf.

    I want the subtle power of the CotF as they defend the old and new.

    I want no mercy from Arya.

    I want the grand attack and statement of resolve at the wall of a recovered king in search of purpose.

    Give me ep10!!!

  303. Dammit Patrice
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

    Mark Hogan,

    HEY! It’s okay if you think is Tormund saying that line, but you can’t call “ridiculous” someone else’s guess. It’s not like we are trolling or something, it’s just a sincere guess.

  304. Hodor Targaryen
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:47 pm | Permalink

    Ser Florian:
    How is LS any sillier than Beric being undead, and brought back from death infront of us? There are enough threads through the books for it to not be plot convenience. I really don’t see it as a jump the shark moment, especially in a series with Dragons, zombies, skinchangers, warlocks, giants, mammoths, magic swords, assassins that can change their faces, assassins of shadow birthed from sex on a map table, and a man being brought back from the dead already. And it’s not as if “hey! how convenient, we get Catelyn Stark back”, we get a completely different character.

    The major difference between the resurrections of Beric and Catelyn is that with Beric, resurrection was his schtick from the get-go. His death scene is also his ressurection scene. And, you know, it’s not like his death was emotionally devastating, we barely knew him. We had spent two and half lengthy books with Catelyn and experienced her most soul crushing moment right before her tragic death. That death means less when she is resurrected. And her story arc is muddled when one of the most complex characters in the (book) series continues to live past what would have been a powerful sendoff as, literally, only a fragment of what she was before. So I wouldn’t call it silly, just bad storytelling.

  305. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 12:06 am | Permalink

    strokememarge,

    Holy crap! Where did that come from? Have you been watching “Game of Bones” instead of GoT? As far as hedonism goes, Salladhor Saan may know a few places to visit.

  306. Ginge Minge
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 12:26 am | Permalink

    Pretty sure that’s Tormund saying “The Dead can’t hear us.” If LS gets cut, I’m going to birth the biggest shadow assassin The Onion Knigget has ever seen.

  307. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 12:33 am | Permalink

    strokememarge,

    Wow, that’s one of the perviest posts I’ve ever seen on this site. We have a winner!

  308. The Unburnt
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 12:33 am | Permalink

    I don’t think, in an hour and 1/2, that it’s unreasonable for Tysha to be brought back up. They worked in a rather long conversation about the beetle crushing, it shouldn’t be hard to go back over the Tysha story. Besides, it is key! That last scene with Tyrion and Tywin is one of the best written in all the books, in my opinion, and I don’t want a single change in it (I know, that is pushing it, but still). Tyrion laying down the law when it comes to the word “whore” then acting on it being said is the key to the entire course of action, despite the various other reasons that have been given on the show that Tyrion would have reason to kill Tywin. But seriously, that final straw….and Jaime’s confession….they are too important to leave out, and too many fans would be disappointed beyond placating if it’s left out.

    LS? Maybe that could make her a bit less, well, zombie-ish? After all, in The Rains of Castamere, she didn’t scratch half her face off, so she wouldn’t be nearly as deformed in the show as LS.

    Pardon me, I’m new here. Just chiming in.

  309. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    Hodor Targaryen: The major difference between the resurrections of Beric and Catelyn is that with Beric, resurrection was his schtick from the get-go. His death scene is also his ressurection scene. And, you know, it’s not like his death was emotionally devastating, we barely knew him. We had spent two and half lengthy books with Catelyn and experienced her most soul crushing moment right before her tragic death. That death means less when she is resurrected. And her story arc is muddled when one of the most complex characters in the (book) series continues to live past what would have been a powerful sendoff as, literally, only a fragment of what she was before. So I wouldn’t call it silly, just bad storytelling.

    I agree with this. I don’t want LS, and think GRRM should never have gone there.

    I love the elements of myth and legend in these stories, but the LS thing (and even the Beric thing) don’t sit well with me.

  310. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 12:51 am | Permalink

    ArgonathofBraavos: I agree with this. I don’t want LS, and think GRRM should never have gone there.

    I love the elements of myth and legend in these stories, but the LS thing (and even the Beric thing) don’t sit well with me.

    But even Tolkien “went there” with Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White. Returning from supposed death, slightly altered, slightly darker, is classic SF & fantasy….and even religion. Give me the real Mhysa!

  311. Shadowcat85
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 12:57 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    It will be interesting to see then if that’s the final shot of the Season 5 premiere.

  312. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 1:02 am | Permalink

    The final will end with both both Bran and LS.

    Bran will meet Bloodraven, some mystical things will occur, and then he will have a vision. And that vision will be of his mother, being resurrected by a misty river. Cut to black – end of season 4.

  313. hinesy24
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 1:12 am | Permalink

    Ser Florian,

    I had that same thought, though I view it as highly unlikely. It would draw a parallel to how the fight between Jaime and Brienne attracts the attention of Locke / the Mummers if they have a loud confrontation that leads to them being discovered by the Hill Tribes. I’ve always thought it was odd that Arya and The Hound can just walk through the Vale when even someone like Bronn was terrified of the HT (and that was before Tyrion armed and armored them). Brienne biting off the ear of the woman with the necklace made out of ears (Chella?) would be hilarious.

  314. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 1:20 am | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard: But even Tolkien “went there” with Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White.Returning from supposed death, slightly altered, slightly darker, is classic SF & fantasy….and even religion. Give me the real Mhysa!

    Gandalf’s resurrection was another matter altogether. Gandalf is a spirit on Earth – a unique force of nature. He is not a father, nor a son, nor a sibling, nor a Lord. He is a messenger of the Gods, basically.

    Catelyn Stark is a woman. A mother who died tragically. She should not come back from death.

  315. House Ray
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 1:31 am | Permalink

    I talked to an unsullied friend who is a good judge of story and plot and does not enjoy gimicks. He was spoiled on LS by bad things. I asked him his thoughts – He said it’s nice to see the good guys have a respite. He doesn’t know about Jon’s stabbing but he thought if Beric’s resurrection was in there, it’s a chekov’s gun for when will that become important again. Still, I don’t expect LS because it will detract. Like Jorah’s banishment means nothing after the Red Viper dies

  316. strokememarge
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 1:35 am | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    See, I am feeling better already after realizing that certain someone won’t be in the show. My dad’s advice about naughty thoughts always works. Another thing, I miss a certain 2001 club in Tampa, nothing like the naughty college students looking to get some extra cash by working there. Some of the best nights, YBOR City, then if I and others didn’t get lucky (and we weren’t too drunk) we headed over to the former for a good time. I can name names of famous people I saw there too, but I won’t, don’t want to possibly ruin some marriages, but never know, some of the women there might have been their wives, Tampa is known as a Swinger Scity.
    OMG! this just reminded me of a trip overseas two years ago, when I told people I came from Tampa, the first thing they said is…not beaches, or Disney but that they wanted to visit it for the notorious sex clubs, lol.

    PS The worse thing about those nights is being the designated driver.

  317. Sid
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 1:35 am | Permalink

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBmE321e74E

    Isn’t the LS reveal at 0:20 when we get the Robb & Catelyn war theme then cut to credits at 0:34 with the main theme + Daenerys theme? Maybe I’m overthinking this but it seems like an abrupt musical transition, and we haven’t heard that theme since the 3:52 mark in S03E09.

  318. Hodor Targaryen
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 1:58 am | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard: But even Tolkien “went there” with Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White.Returning from supposed death, slightly altered, slightly darker, is classic SF & fantasy….and even religion. Give me the real Mhysa!

    Well, you know, GRRM has actually said some pretty critical things about Gandalf being brought back. He has said that Gandalf should have stayed dead, because he was so surprised that he died when he read Fellowship, and felt cheated when he came back in Two Towers. Now, he justifies his own resurrection because the process itself changes those who are resurrected. That doesn’t really cut it for me. I would apply his criticims of Gandalf’s resurrection not only to LS, but to his frequent use of death fake-outs. Death just doesn’t mean as much by boooks four and five as they did after Ned Stark died, and that’s a shame.

    Also, just because it’s classic fantasy doesn’t mean it’s justified. One of the reasons why Game of Thrones is so appealing is because it avoids/subverts classic fantasy tropes. Resurrection is a classic aspect of comic books too, to the point that most deaths are pretty darn meaningless.

  319. Sid
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 1:59 am | Permalink

    Sid:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBmE321e74E

    Isn’t the LS reveal at 0:20 when we get the Robb & Catelyn war theme then cut to credits at 0:34 with the main theme + Daenerys theme? Maybe I’m overthinking this but it seems like an abrupt musical transition, and we haven’t heard that theme since the 3:52 mark in S03E09.

    Correction – Winterfell theme. I guess we heard a glimmer of it in S04E07 during the snow castle scene. But if this isn’t LS, what could it be? Arya leaving for Braavos?

  320. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 2:06 am | Permalink

    Throner: Nell Tiger

    No, if LS appears in this episode it will be because of a vision from Bran. And there’s precedent. He once saw his mother in a dream, and she acted crazy and accidentally pushed him off a tree. That struck me as a bit of LS foreshadowing. I think we’ll see her through Bran’s eyes. If not at the end of this season, sometime in the next.

  321. John M W
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 2:15 am | Permalink

    Sid,

    It’s the Stark theme – more specifically, the stronger “King in the North” variation. Which, with Robb no more, belongs to Bran (as heard in “Mhysa” as he passes under the Wall).

  322. Polish
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 2:41 am | Permalink

    Ok, so this literally has nothing to do with the TV show (yet at least), its about Dance with Dragons I’m re-reading Dance… and now I think its obvious that Mance is the one who wrote the pink letter to Jon. The first time Jon meets Mance (when he is disguised as Rattleshirt and Jon doesn’t know yet… I think Chapter 18 or 17) his first lines are “…ask your red witch, bastard”, and then “I’ll range for you, bastard”… etc. Exact same tone as the letter. This has to be the same foreshadowing type of stuff that GRRM does.

    Like, for example, you notice on reread that Penny and her bro are jousting in the background of Quentyn’s first chapter, and they also talk about someone in history trying to sneak up on a dragon getting and getting burned, and how the Blackfyres are associated with the Golden Company (Aegon being a blackfyre)… and I’m only to chapter 18 Sorry, literally dont have anywhere else to discuss this, and i just got excited

  323. Raven
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 2:44 am | Permalink

    I know that some of you are questioning things about Brienne…

    Especially if her and hound will meet and fight, etc. Do you guys remember “A Song of Ice and Fire: A Foreshadowing”? It was the preview that came out before season 4. They asked some of the actors what the craziest things they’ve done were. And when they came to Gwendoline Christie she said the craziest thing she had done this season was bite off somebody’s ear and spit it in their face. And then she laughed hysterically. :P There’s only one episode left for that to happen, so I’m guessing it’s this Sunday and probably with the Hound. Sorry if that’s already been pointed out.

    No idea if spoiler tags were necessary for that, but better safe than sorry.

  324. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 2:49 am | Permalink

    Hodor Targaryen: Gandalf’s resurrection was another matter altogether. Gandalf is a spirit on Earth – a unique force of nature. He is not a father, nor a son, nor a sibling, nor a Lord. He is a messenger of the Gods, basically.

    Catelyn Stark is a woman. A mother who died tragically. She should not come back from death.

    This bears repeating:

    Gandalf’s resurrection was another matter altogether. Gandalf is a spirit on Earth – a unique force of nature. He is not a father, nor a son, nor a sibling, nor a Lord. He is a messenger of the Gods, basically.

    Catelyn Stark is a woman. A mother who died tragically. She should not come back from death.

    GRRM’s critiques of Tolkien (if you can even call them that) are quite thin, IMO.

  325. Mark Hogan
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 4:16 am | Permalink

    Dammit Patrice,

    Sorry, but there is zero doubt that it’s Tormund. I don’t know why some can’t tell a very distinctive voice like Tormund’s apart from another.

    And yes, it is ridiculous that people come here and say “It’s Beric 100% ! That’s obviously him, and he ‘s back for Season 5 ! And Stoneheart is in !”

    That’s just people talking out of their ass, and not able to correctly identify a voice.

    So if you sincerely guessed it was Beric, that’s not ridiculous, but it is incorrect.

    What is ridiculous is what I mentioned above.

  326. Macejko
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 4:49 am | Permalink

    Bittersteel,

    Bran is a terrible character and his story arc is the worst part of the books AND the show. It’s always just blabbering about visions and about presumed “importance” of his character (coming from the equally terrible Reeds). Furthermore, Isaac can’t act for sh*t. Even Hodor brings more passion to his lines than him.

  327. jentario
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 5:18 am | Permalink

    strokememarge,

    I want to see Varys and Theon in a “show me yours and I’ll show you mine”

    I want to see Cersei rape Jamie in front of the court of the Iron Throne, just to prove a point. As she watches, Ellaria gets turned on.

    I want Tyrion to watch helplessly as he sees Tywin taking a shit on Shae’s breasts, until the excrement goes out of control and Tywin rushes to the bathroom

    I want to see the Hound show Brienne his dog, and then they have passionate, uncontrollable, S&M sex (ear biting during orgasm) as they roll down the hills. Then Pod asks Arya if she wants some too and she says “Stick me with the pointy end.”

    I want to see Berric give Catelyn’s corpse the Lord’s Kiss instead of the Kiss of Life

  328. jentario
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 5:26 am | Permalink

    ArgonathofBraavos,

    Never quote a spoiler comment. It can often eliminate spoiler tags. Use “reply” instead.

    Mods?

  329. Macejko
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 5:49 am | Permalink

    Regarding Tyrion/Tywin scene and possible Tysha reveal: I think you are forgetting that there is a cue on the soundtrack called “You Are No Son Of Mine”, featuring “The Rains of Castamere” theme prominently, which is and indication that it’ll play during that climactic moment. I’m almost 100% sure that Tysha reveal was cut out and that Tyrion will kill Tywin based on some other heartbreaking insult, which will include the frase “You are no son of mine”, coming from Tywin’s mouth.

  330. JamesL
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 7:02 am | Permalink

    Macejko,

    Bran is great and so is Isaac. Your opinion is shit not Isaac’s acting.

  331. Interior Bannisters
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    LS is not dumb nor is it a copout. GRRM is all about turning tropes or giving tropes a realism. Bringing characters back from the dead is the ultimate fantasy trope. However, GRRM is showing us that death has an impact. Its an experience that changes an individual. LS is no longer Cat. Its a disturbing moment where you feel like Cat has been graverobbed and violated. Its presented as an experience and questions how it changes a character. I think its one of the most interesting plot points of the series. If Cat had been brought back as Cat and given a second chance at a true life, then I would call it a cop out. But LS is nothing more than a tragic empty shell. We have no idea if Cat really resides in her.

  332. pntrlqst
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 7:18 am | Permalink

    Interior Bannisters,

    Yesyesyes.

    Stoneheart doesn’t negate the impact of the RW. It was a tragedy, not only for the death of Robb and his bannermen, but as a development in Catelyn’s character arc. It’s just a stage in her character development, not a cop out. Her death was a necessity in order for her to become the character she is now.

  333. BobRoyMiller
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    I’m getting up close and personal with Jon Snow in GOT season 4 finale. Har..Har…
    pic.twitter.com/cXec4mbnNj

  334. House Mormont
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    Why do people feel the Tysha reveal is so important? When I read the books Tyrion’ s intentions seemed completely unreasonable. I mean Jaime just saved his life, and Tyrion wants him dead and breaks his heart over a half-lie years ago?
    Altering it to be about bringing Shae to Tywin would make so much sense, especially as we saw how much Shae affects him in episode 6

  335. Jaime Targaryan
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    Macejko,

    I usually don’t care much about Bran but your message makes me want say it.
    Bran’s a really unique character and I do think the show isn’t doing him justice. As for Isaac, he actually delivered the best performance out of the 3 stark kids. The scene of him in the Craster’s Keep is great. Probably the best I’ve seen come from a child actor.

  336. Tatters
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    ArgonathofBraavos,

    When did Catelyn Stark come back to dead? I only see a zombie.
    Whoever says this is critique of Tolkien is pie in the sky. Religion and sex is. Tolkien made a world where humanity is completely ignored.

  337. Hodor Targaryen
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    I like that idea a lot, and I had a similar reaction to yours when I read the book versiin of the scene.

  338. Stella
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    From Andy Greenwald:

    On Sunday, Game of Thrones’s best season will end with an episode called “The Children.” (The title could refer to the Stark sisters at the Eyrie or Dany’s scaly kids in Meereen. I’m hoping it focuses on those lovable, loathable Lannisters.) I’m eagerly anticipating something big, but what’s even more gratifying is that I’m fully expecting something great. This was more than just a well-told chapter in a story, it was an expertly made and executed — no Tyrion spoilers, please — season of television. How many shows round the turn into their fifth year with the lightness and momentum of a fresh start? If George R.R. Martin’s words are indeed wind, then David Benioff and D.B. Weiss are walking on air. Here’s hoping they can keep it up.

    http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/game-of-thrones-season-4-finale-precap-lets-do-it-for-the-children/

    I love his optimism and enthusiasm, for this finale and for next season.

  339. jentario
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

    Stella,

    Is he a book reader?

  340. Stella
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    No, he is Unsullied. His recaps are among the best I’ve read and I really appreciate his perspective on the show.

    I, on the other hand, am Sullied, but I’ve experienced a lot of book adaptations for both film and TV and I seem to be more open to canonical changes than many who post here…

    Anyway, it is always eye-opening (not popping! Opening!) to read non-book-reader responses to and opinions about the show.

  341. jentario
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    Stella,

    Yeah, I was just wondering.

    Anyway, I’m pretty sure this is the episode that will make the season (for Unsullied at least). Kind of like the finale of Breaking Bad’s fourth season

    I think the book reading fans will outrage if there is no LS, though and will fail to see how great the episode is. Which is a shame. And D&D should have anticipated it if they indeed cut LS. Expect to see a lot of hate everywhere. At Westeros.org people will rate the episode either 0 or 10, and the comments everywhere will be more volatile than ever…

    I think Unsullied will learn about LS by the end of the week one way or the other. Either it happens in the episode or the book reader fan outrage will be impossible to avoid.

    Either way, it’ll be quite a ride.

  342. Tatters
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    To all sullied, who expected season 2 and 3 to end the way it did?

  343. Stella
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    Quite a ride indeed!

    While I don’t always trust adapters to do what I want with already published material, I do expect them to drape their story on the main plot and the characters that create the scaffolding of the original work.

    If LS is included, I will be pleased. She represents the deepest and darkest of the things gone wrong in this violent and unpredictable world and that is why GRRM created her. She broke my heart–truly. What role she may play in the future I do not know. But I do know that she is an important trope: vengeance taken to the final degree leads to…what? LS may explore that for us.

    I’ve been following another series, about a Dublin pathologist in the 1950′s. The lead actor talked to real-life pathologists as he prepared for the role:

    “And I asked one guy ‘are all dead bodies the same?’ And he said, ‘No, they’re not… sometimes you’ll get a person in who had been unexpectedly killed or murdered or died in a car crash – and the energy is trapped in their body, and it takes a while for that energy to leave.’ So I said, ‘What do you think about that?’ And he said, ‘On a practical note, never ever leave anybody angry… anger gets trapped in the body.”

    ;-)

  344. jentario
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    Tatters,

    Hmm. Good point. The answer is nobody.
    So we seriously don’t know who/what ends this episode. It could be another episode 4 thing where nobody ever expects it to come. Maybe through a Bran vision?

    I hope the last shot is appropriately epic, but hopefully not in the same way as seasons 2 and 3 where it’s just a big crowd.

  345. Daniellica
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    Why has there only been 1 single comment about the whole LS pre-fiasco regarding the most basic and fundamental need for this to occur, and how it will occur?

    Michelle Fairley.

    This actor is no longer contracted to the show. If they are going to include the character, they have to negotiate and secure the actor, and if they are going to do this with an actor no longer under contract to the show, they will have to re-negotiate, first of all, and then schedule around HER. Since this is such an iffy proposition, they would likely try to fit ALL of her scenes into the same, short schedule, which absolutely does not work if they are filming her for this year and for next year, and possibly the year after that, all of which adds up to incredible uncertainty from a Producer’s perspective, unless they can give her a schedule for the next 2 (confirmed) seasons and get an agreement to that. A lot of shit up in the air, and producers HATE shit up in the air.

    And before anyone says they can just cast someone else, this is one of those characters for which a recast would completely destroy the shock and horror that is part of the character itself. Stoneheart cannot speak. It is the recognition of who this dark, twisted creature is (or was) that is so shocking, so heart-rending, that causes so much conflict for the reader. This is not Catelyn Stark reborn, but a shade of vengeance unleashed upon the land. Not justice. Vengeance. Is hanging Brienne and Pod “justice”? We know that Brienne did all she could to fulfill her vow–more than most ever would–but still she is found guilty because it is the cold, stone heart of vengeance walking and croaking in the corpse of Catelyn Stark.

    For these reasons I don’t think the character or its arc are at all ridiculous, but tragedy piled on top of the already-tragic. But if it is in I don’t think it will be until next season due to the logistics stated above, unless Fairley made herself very available in a very dedicated sense D&D could count on. If so, fabulous! But for people to dictate that they know what is best for this show based solely upon their expectations, stating outright that they will hate this episode if it is not included–it is so beyond absurd I cannot fathom why such people bother with the show at all. It reminds me of that Super Sweet 16 show when one of those kids spends their $250,000 party pouting and bitching because the brand new BMW they just got wasn’t a convertible like they wanted.

    It does have a sort of delicious irony, though, since one of the themes in this series is how life never gives you what you want, or if it does, never how you want it.

    I predict that in the future, profiles on fansites will be hooked up to a subdural dispenser of diazepam, or something equally delicious, and algorithms will detect undue hysteria and auto-inject the necessary feel-goods. A girl can dream.

  346. Turncloak
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    If you’re not reading Andy Greenwald’s amazing and insightful unsullied recaps than you are missing out

  347. Sister Wrister
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    Ser Florian,

    Thank you Ser. I hope we see this, not sure about timing. Could be a negotiating point for Mance in the tent to build a further sense of doom for the NW an the wall….. And then boom! Stannis!

    STOKED

  348. sati
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

    Daniellica,

    Because it’s completely beyond the realm of possibility the producers put it in her season 3 contract that she will appear this year for one scene. I mean clearly for you that’s impossible, considering that rant of yours.

    It has happened many times in TV history that the character came back just for one scene. Can’t believe someone would even think it’s an issue.

  349. Daniellica
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    sati: Because it’s completely beyond the realm of possibility the producers put it in her season 3 contract that she will appear this year for one scene. I mean clearly for you that’s impossible, considering that rant of yours.

    I see your presumptions are not limited to this series alone. That is, in its own way, a little comforting. :)

  350. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

    ArgonathofBraavos: This bears repeating:
    Gandalf’s resurrection was another matter altogether. Gandalf is a spirit on Earth – a unique force of nature. He is not a father, nor a son, nor a sibling, nor a Lord. He is a messenger of the Gods, basically.

    Fair enough, but I don’t subscribe to the “Gandalf is a spirit” rubbish. That reduces/cheapens LotR, imho. He and Saruman were of the same ilk, but with different agendas and influences. Even though they were very, very old, they were not immortal. They could be killed; they could die like a normal man. However, given that they were wizards, they had other options if death drew near, but I wouldn’t call them “messengers” for a higher power. Gandalf knew what he needed to do as he fell with the Balrog. He was surrounded by great, but dark, power. Somehow, he used/converted that power to save himself. The only question that remains is how he got out of that unbelievably deep pit. :)

    Anyway, regardless of the method by which he was brought back, the reader thought he was gone and he came back. So I do not see the aesthetic difference between a reversed storytelling death in ASoI&F and LotR…both are quite surprising and magical.

  351. lavignac
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

    It seems the Canadian big-screen finale will be well attended. I went to my local cinema this morning, and they were sold-out. Guess I’ll do like all of you and watch The Children in my apartment.

  352. Saar
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

    Daniellica:
    Why has there only been 1 single comment about the whole LS pre-fiasco regarding the most basic and fundamental need for this to occur, and how it will occur?

    Michelle Fairley.

    This actor is no longer contracted to the show. If they are going to include the character, they have to negotiate and secure the actor, and if they are going to do this with an actor no longer under contract to the show, they will have to re-negotiate, first of all, and then schedule around HER. Since this is such an iffy proposition, they would likely try to fit ALL of her scenes into the same, short schedule, which absolutely does not work if they are filming her for this year and for next year, and possibly the year after that, all of which adds up to incredible uncertainty from a Producer’s perspective, unless they can give her a schedule for the next 2 (confirmed) seasons and get an agreement to that. A lot of shit up in the air, and producers HATE shit up in the air.

    And before anyone says they can just cast someone else, this is one of those characters for which a recast would completely destroy the shock and horror that is part of the character itself. Stoneheart cannot speak. It is the recognition of who this dark, twisted creature is (or was) that is so shocking, so heart-rending, that causes so much conflict for the reader. This is not Catelyn Stark reborn, but a shade of vengeance unleashed upon the land. Not justice. Vengeance. Is hanging Brienne and Pod “justice”? We know that Brienne did all she could to fulfill her vow–more than most ever would–but still she is found guilty because it is the cold, stone heart of vengeance walking and croaking in the corpse of Catelyn Stark.

    For these reasons I don’t think the character or its arc are at all ridiculous, but tragedy piled on top of the already-tragic. But if it is in I don’t think it will be until next season due to the logistics stated above, unless Fairley made herself very available in a very dedicated sense D&D could count on. If so, fabulous!But for people to dictate that they know what is best for this show based solely upon their expectations, stating outright that they will hate this episode if it is not included–it is so beyond absurd I cannot fathom why such people bother with the show at all. It reminds me of that Super Sweet 16 show when one of those kids spends their $250,000 party pouting and bitching because the brand new BMW they just got wasn’t a convertible like they wanted.

    It does have a sort of delicious irony, though, since one of the themes in this series is how life never gives you what you want, or if it does, never how you want it.

    I predict that in the future, profiles on fansites will be hooked up to a subdural dispenser of diazepam, or something equally delicious, and algorithms will detect undue hysteria and auto-inject the necessary feel-goods. A girl can dream.

    Mance will also (presumably) be in one scene this season and they have had plenty of time to talk to Michelle Fairley and tell her about the role of LS, if they use her I am sure that she won’t be a mute though

  353. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

    Hodor Targaryen: Now, he justifies his own resurrection because the process itself changes those who are resurrected. That doesn’t really cut it for me. I would apply his criticims of Gandalf’s resurrection not only to LS, but to his frequent use of death fake-outs.

    I am rather fond of GRRM’s “undeaths” because of a few reasons:

    1) Given the rationale you quoted…”it changes those who are resurrected.” Through Arya, we felt Beric’s weariness, his slow death. With LS, her 3 days of death preserved only her dark rage; she is not Cat anymore.

    2) The PoV structure of ASoI&F allows for misperceptions and misinformation and hearsay to be disseminated and believed without much proof.

    3) There is myth, magic and a stunning survival creed intertwined in this amazing tale.

    After AGoT’s prologue, when suddenly someone was dead then suddenly they were a murderous ghoul; then the protagonist Ned kills the survivor of that macabre attack because of the untrue/flawed belief that he had fled the Nights Watch deliberately and not because he was scared to fucking death by what he saw…..I quickly realized that all is not what it seems in this tale. I accept the undead handily.

  354. Hodor Targaryen
    Posted June 15, 2014 at 3:29 am | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard:

    1) Given the rationale you quoted…”it changes those who are resurrected.” Through Arya, we felt Beric’s weariness, his slow death. With LS, her 3 days of death preserved only her dark rage; she is not Cat anymore.

    After AGoT’s prologue, when suddenly someone was dead then suddenly they were a murderous ghoul; then the protagonist Ned kills the survivor of that macabre attack because of the untrue/flawed belief that he had fled the Nights Watch deliberately and not because he was scared to fucking death by what he saw…..I quickly realized that all is not what it seems in this tale. I accept the undead handily.

    Responding to your first point: I think LS advocates are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to arguing how much of Cat is still around post-Kiss of Life. Maybe that is pretty much an understandably pissed off Catelyn, in which case her death loses a lot of its significance, as all it was was a way to get her in a river and on the way to be with the Brotherhood after seeing her son die and exact her revenger. Or, more likely, that really isn’t Catelyn at all, as yousay. But in that case, it is still frustrating, because we now have a character that is pretty darn two-dimensional who is moving aspects of the plot. I don’t think an angry zombie is a particularly interesting character.

    I tend to think it’s a combination of both, and therefore my criticism is more mixed. I think LS still has some of what defined Catelyn in her, and in that same respect I do think that her death means significantly less than it did when I thought it was her final moment. Maybe not quite as pointless as Gandalf’s death in GRRM’s eyes, but still loses a lot of its power. But I also think that LS is very different from Cat, based on the little we saw of her, and that many of the features of Catelyn are gone post-Kiss, but that just makes her a not particularly intersting character. So basically, I think LS cheapens Catelyn’s death somehwhat, and that the character of LS is too one-dimensional and uninteresting to have been worth said cheapening.

    And on your last point about there being some undead from the get-go with GoT: I’m not saying Cat’s resurrection is impossible within the magical rules Martin set up. I mean, I think Beric and Thoros were pretty much put into the story so that the idea of ressurrecting someone could be introduced pre-Lady Stoneheart. But just because it can happen within fantasy, doesn’t mean it necessarily should. Just because Stannis can fuck a smoke demon into Melisandre, doesn’t mean that having that demon kill Robb, Joffrey and Balon in the same way they killed Renly would have been compelling storyltelling. In the same way, I buy that in a fantasy world that death can be a little flexible, but the more flexible it is the less compelling it is, in my view.

  355. jentario
    Posted June 15, 2014 at 4:43 am | Permalink

    Hodor Targaryen,

    I don’t think it cheapens Cat’s death in any way. Lady Stoneheart is not Cat. We don’t get any more POV chapters, we don’t get to see the sweet mother that cares for her children. She is the embodiment of vengeance, not a resurrected Catelyn. You could argue that that makes her two-dimensional, but that’s an entirely different matter.

    Personally I find Stoneheart intriguing. She was an absolutely surprising twist that really excited me when I read it. And then, when we get to the Brienne chapter, all your hopes are crushed. It’s a classic GRRM move. I think Stoneheart is important enough if only to put Brienne in the same place she is in the books. Probably the most noble character set to choose which oath to break and which allegiance to betray. It’s really good in my opinion and I think it will only get better with Jamie involved.

    But I do agree that GRRM is completely overdoing the fake deaths lately. I’m not even sure he can go through with killing main characters anymore. The biggest twist in ADWD (the Pink Letter) is built on two fake deaths, which is entirely lame.

  356. sati
    Posted June 15, 2014 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    Daniellica,

    In other words you have nothing to add to your incorrect assumptions.

    As someone also said the situation applies to Mance too.

  357. Charles M
    Posted June 15, 2014 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    LS will be next season I reckon. I don’t think they cut her out. Why? because if they did they’d say so wouldn’t they? The actor would say so. Why would they be so coy about it all?

    So yeah, my prediction: first episode of next season.

  358. jentario
    Posted June 15, 2014 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    Charles M,

    Yeah, I wouldn’t rush to think she’s cut. What’s the point of Podrick and Brienne going off together without her? What’s the point of that creepy Bran dream and Cat murdering in the Red Wedding? What’s the point in making the Brotherhood resurrect Berric? I think the whole thing would have gone down differently if she was cut. That said, I do think it’s the wrong move to delay her since a lot of people will just assume that she got cut and soon enough everyone would know about it.

    If they did cut it, I hope they’ll make a formal announcement soon after. There’s no reason for them to stretch this out anymore. The lead-up to the finale was annoying enough. I don’t see why they’d want to make this a surprise to book readers.

  359. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 15, 2014 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    Hodor Targaryen:

    I tend to think it’s a combination of both, and therefore my criticism is more mixed. I think LS still has some of what defined Catelyn in her, and in that same respect I do think that her death means significantly less than it did when I thought it was her final moment. Maybe not quite as pointless as Gandalf’s death in GRRM’s eyes, but still loses a lot of its power. But I also think that LS is very different from Cat, based on the little we saw of her, and that many of the features of Catelyn are gone post-Kiss, but that just makes her a not particularly intersting character. So basically, I think LS cheapens Catelyn’s death somehwhat, and that the character of LS is too one-dimensional and uninteresting to have been worth said cheapening.

    And on your last point about there being some undead from the get-go with GoT: I’m not saying Cat’s resurrection is impossible within the magical rules Martin set up. I mean, I think Beric and Thoros were pretty much put into the story so that the idea of ressurrecting someone could be introduced pre-Lady Stoneheart. But just because it can happen within fantasy, doesn’t mean it necessarily should. Just because Stannis can fuck a smoke demon into Melisandre, doesn’t mean that having that demon kill Robb, Joffrey and Balon in the same way they killed Renly would have been compelling storyltelling. In the same way, I buy that in a fantasy world that death can be a little flexible, but the more flexible it is the less compelling it is, in my view.

    I appreciate your response. Thx.

    Can you imagine how LS would respond to meeting one of her daughters again? Is this undead thing simply too full of rage to be a mother anymore? I would find that scenario, along with an ultra-dark LS PoV chapter, stupendously interesting! I had a debate a while back on westeros that LS is destined to give her life, if you can call it that, to someone dear to her…possibly to a dying Arya or Sansa…in the last chapter or epilogue of TWoW. In any case, I’m still a bit pissed that GRRM has not given us any insight into how LS and Brienne’s relationship has progressed, other than LS let her live. Brienne’s appearance in ADwD, from Jaime’s PoV, seemed very 2-dimensional and “rushed”.

    Regarding shadow babies, leeches, wights and resurrection in general….GRRM does surprisingly keep the magic in check. Given its presence, it could be the nuclear factor in the story. It could be everywhere, with random killings, red priests resurrecting anyone, throwing leeches toward anyone, creating shadow babies right and left. Deaths and subsequent undeaths running rampant throughout Westeros. It has a chance to really ruin the story, but GRRM seems to use it sparingly – as if it that kind of magic is truly a rare commodity – otherwise Thoros would be the most powerful person in Westeros. :)

    But its presence always leaves that open for the possibility of return, which is why I am so fond of the ironborn phrase “What is dead may never die.” I guess it is a different kind of storytelling enjoyment.

    Enjoy the finale tonight…may we all be surprised.

  360. JamesL
    Posted June 15, 2014 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    jentario,

    The “creepy Bran dream” is another example of the absurd lengths people go to try and convince themselves that Lady Stonheart will appear they find these “clues” everywhere. What’s the point of resurrecting Beric? Because he is a cool character and an important part of Arya’s arc in season 3. Just because Lady Stoneheart is cut doesn’t mean an awesome character like Beric should be removed from the show.

  361. jentario
    Posted June 15, 2014 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    JamesL,

    They could have easily avoided the resurrection part if they were going to cut Stoneheart. And buddy, you’re clearly bringing your opinion into this. The acid in your tone gives it away. Talk about a hypocrite.

    You don’t know any more than me what the show has planned for season 5, so don’t take your speculation as fact just yet.

  362. SkyWrathMage
    Posted June 15, 2014 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Guys. If Stoneheart doesn’t appear, she sure will on the next seasons. Don’t lose hope. D&D knows the best.

    At least we’re sure of all epic stuff from Tyrion, Tywin, Shae, Varys and Jaime.

    And Children of the Forest? Bloodraven? AWESOME. And the fucking dragons. Chained up. HAHAHAHAHA

    Uhmmm. Do you guys think they’ll kill off The Hound? They might change things prior to ASoIaF. :D

    SO EXCITEDDDD

  363. jentario
    Posted June 15, 2014 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

    ^^^This
    This episode will be awesome no matter what. Let’s enjoy it, no matter if that scene gets cut.

  364. Turncloak
    Posted June 15, 2014 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    At this point I will be more upset if they don’t give us the Tysha reveal than LS. It makes sense that they wouldn’t bring LS just for 1 episode due to contract negotiations. The same applies to Ser Barristan. I was expecting him to arrive in season 2 episode 10 but instead we got him in season 3 episode 1. The Tysha reveal is crucial to Tyrion’s motivation for killing Shae and Tywin. Don’t see that part making sense unless they include it.

  365. jentario
    Posted June 15, 2014 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    It’s not looking good, Turncloak.
    Unless they have Tyrion/Jamie tell it all over again, it’s cut (or it would have been in the recap). And I really don’t see them having Tyrion or Jamie retell it. That’s not to say it won’t happen, but I’m a bit 50/50 on this. Hopefully whatever they do, they’ll have it make sense.

  366. Hodor Targaryen
    Posted June 15, 2014 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    Thanks for your response, you are consistently a thoughtful poster, and your points are good. I think it all comes down to how interesting LS is as a character for people, and therefore whether the ressurrection was worth the plot development.

    I hope you enjoy the finale as well. I’m actually pretty sure they are going to have LS. D&D mentioned a “huge twist” in the finale, pretty sure David Bradley was confirmed to be in Season 4 earlier this year, Lena’s tweet. Just because BwB isn’t in previously doesn’t mean they’ll cut it, they just don’t want to reveal their hand. The LS shock works even if you don’t piece together exactly how it happened.

  367. Stella
    Posted June 15, 2014 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    Yes. Unsullied won’t care. After all of the terrible and almost malevolent things Tywin has said to Tyrion this season, as well as the things he might say tonight to his son, Tyrion’s motivation will be clear. Add Shae to this equation and there is plenty of rationale for Tyrion’s anger and his first steps down the path of darkness.

    Enjoy the finale tonight, everyone! May we ALL be surprised!


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