Podcast Season 4

Game of Owns: Children

Following the conclusion of Game of Thrones season 4, your hosts attempt to lift and assemble what is left in the wake of The Children.

Episode 226 – Children

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Following the conclusion of Game of Thrones season 4, your hosts attempt to lift and assemble what is left in the wake of The Children.

Discussion Topics

Empty feelings
Kings beyond the Wall
Operating table
Lannister love
Passageways, whispers
The four travellers
The Tree
The changes in Meereen
Owns of the Episode
Leaky is Coming

The travel gods have cursed Friday’s episode. Early next week, GOO returns with a very special segment, and complete follow-up to the finale.


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  • I very much disagree with the “reckless” part of the “confidence” assessment.

    Cersei is confident because she has finally decided to use the only weapon that can kill Tyrion: the threat of ruining the Lannister legacy. At this point, she has maximum leverage over her father. Tywin’s answer to the “what do you want?” question is the Lannister’s in power. Cersei threatens that core desire directly. And as such, Cersei’s decision to threaten Tywin with the destruction of the family frees her up to do whatever the heck she wants. It’s not reckless confidence, it’s actual power over Tywin. It’s real and justified confidence. Frankly, Tywin was effectively dead before Tyrion killed him. He lost his leverage over his children, and as such, lost his leverage over the King and the realm. He had been neutered, and that puts Cersei and Jaime at the very height of their power.

    As to when Jaime decided to free Tyrion, I think it was right when Cersei told him that she told Tywin about their incest (and about her use of that revelation as a threat). The blackmail card essentially means Jaime is now immune to any retribution from his father.

    His father cannot charge him with treason now, because all Jaime has to do is play the “REVEAL INCEST” card, and his father will have to stay his hand.

  • Glad you guys were psyched for the Child of the Forrest shooting fireballs at those skeletons, but I found it jarring and if this actually happened in the book, it should have been changed for the show. Remove the skeletons and just make them Wights, those reanimated corpses we’ve already seen on the show. And since everybody has Dragonglass, it would have been possible for them to kill them since they don’t die from normal weapons.

    Something else I realized during the Tyrion discussion is that now Tyrion has caused the death of his mother and his father. Jaime even mentions to Cersei that Tyrion shouldn’t be punished for a death he wasn’t aware he caused, but he is now getting away with a death he meant to cause. Interesting.

    I’m dying to hear Kate and Micah dance around those dragons on Friday’s episode. Unsullied seem upset about a scene being excluded that looks like it was supposed to pack a punch. A punch Micah felt the Season finale lacked. What I’m wondering is if this scene is possibly being saved as a cliffhanger for Season 5 or something that had to happen now or it will never happen. I hope it’s the former due to the concerns of Sullied that the next seasons, based on books 4 &5 will lack the excitement seasons 3 & 4 delivered. Perhaps they’re saving it for next season much like they saved Selmy’s return, which happened in book 2, for episode 1 of Season 3 and provided that, “Oh crap” moment for the premiere.

    I must admit that I was a victim of the hype everyone was giving this episode. When it was hyped, I was expecting a season 1 & 2 type ending. Of course there was Tywin and Tyrion’s descent into eternal sadness following his family’s constant desire of his death, Bran finding the tree, Stannis taking over the Wall, and Brienne/Hound, but these were all late season quality events in my opinion building to something that was going to make my jaw drop. Honestly, I was preparing for them to kill Tyrion and end the season there and be blown away at the choice to go balls out and leave people angry. THAT would have lived up to the hype and surpassed it. When the last scene is literally Arya getting on a boat and looking out into the open sea, I felt dissapointed. I know it’s supposed to leave me happy that Arya found an escape from the land of dead family, and she’ll be happier elsewhere, but I was expecting something grander to hope for like the birth of Dragons or something to dread like an army of White Walkers. Not something that pertained to one character like Dany crowd surfing.

    It seems like I’m crapping on the episode, but I really did enjoy it…. Right up until the point I realized the blow away moment I was told to expect wasn’t going to happen. It’s not Kate or Micah’s fault I was so hyped as they were just basing it on what happened in the book, but other shows and publications seemed to be expecting the same and especially a GOT fan site with a comment section full of Sullied that were sure it would deliver on certain event(s). I just want reassurance from Friday’s show that this “missing” scene would have delivered and Micah is always good for hyping events in the book. I guess I’ll find out when The-On season begins and we get to read it right before season 5 starts.

  • I find it interesting that so many people are under the impression that the skeletons were different from Wights. Many of the Wights we saw at the end of Season 2 were already devoid of much of their skin.

    It was clear to me that the Wights in front of the cave were just so old that they were no longer anything but skeleton.

    So it’s not like this was some new magical element added to the show.

  • Soopa Doop,

    I’ll address the children of the forest part for you they don’t shoot fireballs in the books there was another character there with bran and co. Who was not in the show, he made it possible for them to reach the cave but since he wasn’t there on the show the only way to fight back the wights was with some deus ex machina fire BS, which imo makes no sense because if the COTF actually had that power there is no way the Andals would’ve defeated them. Ps they weren’t skeletons they were wights in the books.

  • I just realized it was a nice little foreshadowing for Varys, when he says in “Blackwater”:

    “I’ve always hated the bells. They ring for horror…”

  • Used to listen to the podcast rarely, but Kate is a great addition, is this permanent? I hope so

  • I don’t think there was any glee in Brienne’s face. All I saw was pure desperation and panic. IMO

  • the child of the forest had a distinctly adult female voice, so she’s not actually a child I don’t think

  • Who’s the Biggest Hippie Starlet?

    Pfffff…… These Fansided popups are REALLY annoying me. I want Phil and the old site back!!

  • Eric,
    You are the least charismatic person in the World.
    And you are always wrong.
    It’s become almost ironic how wrong you always are.
    It always seems like you’re Rambling about things of which you have no perspective, or understanding.
    You ramble to try to come to some point, when there is none.

    I’m, sorry, but I just don’t see your point. Ever. Which makes me wonder the point of you.

    -one critic

    Ps. Bad voice

  • First of all STANNIS.

    Second, this was one of your best episodes. Thank you Micah and Kate for not dwelling too much on your disappointment wihch is understandable but does not make a very enjoyable podcast.

  • jwal:
    Used to listen to the podcast rarely, but Kate is a great addition, is this permanent? I hope so

    This. I love everyone on GOO, but Kate is a rare gem. Perceptive, sharp, original, funny, charismatic, and very knowledgable about this world. Could there be a more perfect woman?

  • I am kinda concerned …GOO is about to start reading a atom of swords chapter by chapter … What happens when u guys reach the epilogue … I mean will Ull discuss it …it worries me cuz what if the show does bring the epilogue in some way into season 5 or 6 or 7 …

  • Sarahreader,

    Thank you. I couldn’t agree more. I finally got fed up with this podcast because he is always wrong and seems to overthink the most minute of details. This guy is oblivious to everything and really brings the rest of the show down. Everyone else is so great, so Eric looks far worse by comparison.


  • Ignore the trolls, Eric–you’re an awesome guy and integral part of the podcast. We need someone to defend Theon. If you weren’t on this show, they would have to rename it something different, like ‘Game of Lesser Owns.’

    That being said, it would be funny if you guys did a ‘Eric Reads the Mean Tweets’ [and responds to them] in the style of Jimmy Kimmel.

  • Tatters,
    Oh, I was just under the impression that White Walkers and Wights were able to be killed by fire related items and anything with some magical connection to dragons like Dragonglass, Wildfire, and fire itself.

  • Thanks for the podcast guys, it’s great! :) I just wanted to say the Eric hate from some of these posters is getting really annoying. Why so mean, people? In this episode Eric made some really good points about the show that impressed me as a book reader.

    Micah & Kate, I hope when you talk about the “excluded” scene, you acknowledge that not all book readers think ending the season with Arya was disappointing. I thought it was a wonderfully hopeful scene, and just somehow a very fitting ending for this episode and season.

  • Also, Eric you’re an important part of the GOO formula. I won’t advise you to completely ignore those harsh comments addressed to you because there is some helpful constructive criticism buried in those disrespectful comments or else those comments wouldn’t have been made. Everyone is playing their roles well on the show

    In my opinion, the Monday shows are always a fan reaction show where they just react to what they’ve seen because it was instant and there was no time to analyze. Friday is the show where the hosts have had days to compose themselves and express their thoughts.

  • Kate:

    I hope nobody ever figures out that you’re just me posting under another name to talk about how great I am all the time.

    Your secret is safe with me. I mean, my secret is safe with you. No, your secret is safe with you. Or…my secret is safe with me.

  • I’m still wrestling with how I feel about a lot things this episode (actually, just the omissions from Tyrion’s story, really), but one thing I feel really good about is the Stannis arrival. And I emphatically do *not* think it should have been a part of episode 9. Here’s why:

    If Stannis rides in at the end of episode 9, he looks like a savior. Putting where they did, it allowed to show his arrival in many ways from the perspective of the wildlings. I think making Ygritte so complicit in genuine massacres south of the wall, particularly along with making the Thenns into super-villainous cannibals, was the biggest misstep since Dany’s bizarre season 2 arc. So, it was great to see the wildlings humanized again, to really feel for them when they’re cut down. I mean, it hurt, but it felt right. Viewers shouldn’t just get to feel happy when wildlings get killed.

    I think Stannis is a great character, who I grudgingly respect despite having very different moral sensibilities, and I’m very much looking forward to some lines of dialogue I hope and expect we’ll get to hear early next year. But even if taking the responsibility to go north helps us believe he might be the right man for the job, I don’t think it’s an unambiguously good thing he shows up at the wall to stop Mance. And the shots with him and Mance and Jon conveyed that perfectly, I thought. One of my favorite aspects of the adaptation so far.

  • Great show you all! I really enjoyed your comments. Some thoughts on what you covered:

    *Ponies–yes, Calvary is normally magical against infantry, mounted troops can take on many times their number of foot soldiers. Plus Stannis didn’t have to take on Mance’s entire army (which was spread out). All he needed to do was surround and take Mance. One of the first things they teach you in the military is always take out the highest ranking enemy as soon as possible. This was Jon’s plan and it apparently was Stannis’ plan as well.

    *the Tywin doesn’t poop gold line wouldn’t have worked, it would have been comical and cheap

    *there are tons of men (in Westeros and in our world) who have a stellar reputation and/or are very vocal about their upstanding morals in regards to prostitution that do violate those standards all the time. So thinking that it wasn’t in Tywin’s nature, is kind of naive. Plus Tywin never said don’t use the service of prostitutes only that Tyrion did it so openly and to excess…that he never was with any “normal” women. Tywin was concerned about the family’s reputation and Tyrion was known throughout Westeros for his sexual proclivities, which made them all look bad (in Tywin’s eyes). If Tyrion had bothered to hide it, Tywin would not have cared. After all, he suspected his other kids were involved in an incestuous relationship but without any real proof and them not flaunting it to the world, he let it slide.

    *Yes! Tyrion goes to the dark side but he isn’t without conscience, his belated apology to Shae shows that. Tyrion has been alternately emotionally abused or neglected his entire life. Tywin has basically treated Tyrion like a piece of poop….and then Tywin tries to kill him and sleeps with the woman he loves. The repeated betrayal of a parent, topped off by those final two acts was simply too much for him to take. Even good people break sometimes and do bad things. Tyrion killing Shae would be considered “manslaughter” in modern times (passion of the moment, happens every day, spouse comes home, finds another man/woman in bed with other spouse, they kill them…very common). But his killing Tywin, once he had confronted him, had to happen. He couldn’t trust that his father would let him live at that point and he could’nt let him sound the alarm. He couldn’t overwhelm Tywin and tie him up. And then Tywin just had to piss him off by disparaging the woman he loved and ignoring his feelings.

    *It’s called the gift of mercy because it is something that should be given freely and originates from a feeling of love and/or pity. Arya didn’t feel he deserved either. Meera gave mercy to Jojen because she loved him…those two acts are what should be juxtaposed here. As much I love the Hound, he hasn’t earned an easy death…he deserves to suffer because he hasn’t done enough to redeem himself–not in Arya’s eyes (nor mine either).

    *The child is NOT the girl from Season 1. The girl from S1 was a wight.

    *In Dany’s defense, she has no idea what she is doing with those dragons. In fact, probably no one in the world does know how to control them EXCEPT those who took the time to read history books about Dragons (potential spoiler! So I will say nothing more than that). Drogon is bigger, smarter and the leader of the three. He’s the one who comes home the least. She can’t call to Drogon (in her mind or using an actual signal) and he’s very large, already too hard to control. He has a mind of his own. She doesn’t know if she can even get Drogon to stay in one place while she chains him. She doesn’t know what it will do to them but she fears they will wither living in the dark. They’re not animals to her, they’re her children. How many parents do you know who have kids that are bad or at least acting badly? How hard is it for them to accept that their kids have done something horrible and how do they react? Like those parents with mentally ill kids that they allow to be around guns. After the fact, we say, why didn’t they do something? Well, we don’t know that they didn’t try to do something about it. And thinking about your children as murderers, acknowledging that they’re messed up, is so frickin hard. Like most parents, it takes them a while to act and some parents never, ever reel their kids in, but Dany finally does the responsible thing and incarcerates them…at least the ones that are still with her. As to how to get to Drogon, how is she supposed to do that? It’s not like she can take her private jet up and find, lasso and chain him up. She’s flying blind and until she can stumble upon some answers or get an adviser that can help her, she knows she has no choice now.

  • Sarahreader,

    wait, what exactly are you criticising him for? for being “wrong”? this does not seem like constructive criticism. do not call yourself a “critic” if you are hating instead.

    unsullied can be wrong, there is nothing upsetting about that. I actually enjoy show watchers’ reactions and perspectives on the story developments. and Eric’s “ramblings” are hilarious. Just because he thinks differently than some of us, does not mean you need to be rude to him.

  • They talk about missing a key thing from the books, I can’t really think of anything. What is it?

  • Sorry for poor English,
    Why is that one guys mic so bad? I keep hearing sharp audio from the good show guy, reader guy, and new show girl, then there’s the other nose voice guy who sounds like he switches from 10 feet away to 1 foot. I say this from a person who turns the buttons, that guy ( whoever his name is) should remain behind glass and speaks never.