George R.R. Martin won’t be writing an episode for Season 5, talks The Winds of Winter prologue
By Lightbringer on in Interview.

George R.R. Martin will be setting aside a little more time to work on the next installment of his book series, ‘The Winds of Winter’. He revealed yesterday at San Diego Comic-Con that for the first time, he will not be writing an episode of Game of Thrones for the upcoming season.

In a new interview with Vulture, Martin says that he will be taking Season 5 off “because I have this book to finish.”

He’ll also be clearing out his schedule, and won’t be making a trip to the set of Game of Thrones until next year. “I might make it over there early next year, but I’ve got to finish the book The Winds of Winter. So I’m making the trips I’m already obligated to make, but I’m not adding any new trips at this time. So I don’t think I’m going to do a set visit this year, sadly.”

Martin spoke with Zap2It’s Terri Schwartz about his comments during yesterday’s panel that Robb Stark’s book wife, Jeyne Westerling, would be making an appearance in ‘The Winds of Winter’ prologue. He reveals that she won’t be the POV character, and that he may just break his own rules in terms of the fate of those who appear in his prologues. He also talks about fans finding hints for future plot points throughout the books, and expands on why he won’t be writing an episode for Season 5.

 

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118 Comments

  1. Jambo
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    Cool Cool…..GET HYPE!

  2. NewJeffCT
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    Hopefully, it means he’s getting close to wrapping the book up?

  3. The Bastard
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    More signs that he is behind and likely won’t end the series before the television show.

  4. Valandil Elanessë Di Chocolat
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    How convenient of you to remember you have a book to finish just now, while going on vacation, visiting cons and blogging about your movie theater.

  5. crabber's son
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    he wouldnt even know how to write an episode without 80 percent of his affc/adwd main characters which dont seem to be gettin cast

  6. Doug
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    A convenient excuse, that I do say is likely true. However, I watched that panel and in my opinion, and only mine, I am sensing tension between him and Benioff and Weiss. Especially the way Benioff and Weiss ended the panel with their words on the adaptation process, and the quote from Weiss about an author’s books remain the same on his shelf.

    Given Martin’s snail like pace, I always thought there was a good chance of this happening. That as we move towards the end it gets less and less a good working relationship and becomes a more strained one.

  7. Lightbringer
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    I’m actually feeling extremely optimistic about this news. Taking it as a sign that he’s planning on wrapping it up by the end of the year. And considering it’s nearly August, that isn’t too far away.

  8. Renly's Peach
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    This is what he should have done a YEAR ago.

    Hopefully he’s starting to realize that D&D aren’t as “friendly” and accommodating as he once thought. That the series is not gonna last for 10 seasons plus a movie. These people are gonna run all over your narrative and devour you if you don’t step up your own work.

    If I were GRRM, I’d just distance myself from the television series as much as possible because they’re in a world of their own now and focus on the only thing that’s mattered: the books.

  9. The Bastard
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Doug:
    A convenient excuse, that I do say is likely true. However, I watched that panel and in my opinion, and only mine, I am sensing tension between him and Benioff and Weiss. Especially the way Benioff and Weiss ended the panel with their words on the adaptation process, and the quote from Weiss about an author’s books remain the same on his shelf.

    Given Martin’s snail like pace, I always thought there was a good chance of this happening. That as we move towards the end it gets less and less a good working relationship and becomes a more strained one.

    Glad I was not the only one who noticed this. David and Dan also refused to answer a question about the show passing the books. From HBO’s point of view, they have two great show runners who know the basic outlines of the series and that is what they can go on.

    It is kind of sad to see GRRM’s legacy tarnished like this. He will always be known as the author of a series that had a television show finish the ending for him first.

    Personally I think that GRRM is going to start leaking information on the ending of the books as the show gets closer and closer to the end. Look at the childish way he gave the finger to his fans during an interview a few weeks back. This is going to get very ugly. I would not be surprised if GRRM stops talking to HBO and David and Dan by the time the show is in the last season.

  10. Duck
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Doug,

    I think your imagining things. In general, I think it’s silly to think that one can figure out what their current working relationship is like, or what anyone is like, from looking at how they act in a not at all normal situation like Comic-Con panel. They’re up on a stage, speaking to huge room of people, trying to answer questions on the spot. Not that they aren’t somewhat used to that sort of thing by now, but still, you can’t really take much from whatever body language or behavior you notice there.

  11. Dylan
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    Him saying “I need to finish ‘Winds of Winter’ ” is great news for my ears! Maybe we will see it next year, not getting over excited though haha

  12. EverydayI'mHodoring
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

    The Bastard: Glad I was not the only one who noticed this.David and Dan also refused to answer a question about the show passing the books. From HBO’s point of view, they have two great show runners who know the basic outlines of the series and that is what they can go on.

    It is kind of sad to see GRRM’s legacy tarnished like this. He will always be known as the author of a series that had a television show finish the ending for him first.

    Personally I think that GRRM is going to start leaking information on the ending of the books as the show gets closer and closer to the end. Look at the childish way he gave the finger to his fans during an interview a few weeks back. This is going to get very ugly. I would not be surprised if GRRM stops talking to HBO and David and Dan by the time the show is in the last season.

    Can’t blame D&D for not answering it, it was a controversial question made even worse with the author sitting right there. There’s nobody to blame for it except Martin himself, so if he’s mad or pissed off it should be at himself not the show runners or HBO. HBO isn’t going to slow down a pop culture juggernaut like this because he can’t get on with it, there are hundreds of people working on the show almost continuously that can’t just be put into stand-by mode waiting around for him, or risk losing momentum that the show has built up. And I’m not ragging on Martin, he can do what he wants and he will, but there are consequences to that choice that he needs to suck up and take (again, that is if he is at all ticked off about the show going passed him).

  13. Severance23
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    So not writing an episode for season 5 will give Gorge how much time – 3-4 weeks at most? He just spent that long in Europe and after this con is done with, he’ll be back to the U.K. for just as long. This book ain’t never coming …

  14. Dame of Mercia
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    GRRM may genuinely have suffered from writer’s block. Now (as I’ve stated previously) I will be very pleased if he does finish TWOW this or next year, though I am not counting on it – that way I won’t be disappointed. I don’t think there is much point in people pouring scorn on the show writers if they are outpacing GRRM, though. I suspect that when the adaptation process began both D&D and GRRM thought the books would be either completed or nearer to completion by now (2014) than has turned out to be the case. I can’t remember the exact quote, but one of the actors at the London Comic-Con panel (might have been Gethin Anthony) said that GRRM has shown films at his cinema in which some of the actors from the “Game of Thrones” TV show have featured. I wouldn’t 100% condemn him for being involved with the cinema because by fostering it, he is putting something back into his local community. Not all wealthy people do that.

  15. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    GRRM didn’t seem angry at all, and his relationship with D&D seems great (eg. he repeats effusive praise about their adaptation process – including added scenes – quite often). He’s just dealing with an uncomfortable reality.

    It’s amazing to me the need people have to find conflict in everything.

  16. The Bastard
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    Renly’s Peach:
    This is what he should have done a YEAR ago.

    Hopefully he’s starting to realize that D&D aren’t as “friendly” and accommodating as he once thought. That the series is not gonna last for 10 seasons plus a movie. These people are gonna run all over your narrative and devour you if you don’t step up your own work.

    If I were GRRM, I’d just distance myself from the television series as much as possible because they’re in a world of their own now and focus on the only thing that’s mattered: the books.

    I think they don’t have a choice about being “accommodating”. They said during the panel that they work year round and they don’t even have the time to increase the number of episodes per year. One of them even joked about how it would cause a divorce.

    I am sure they want to get back to their families at some point. In total, they will have put in probably close to a decade on the show. Time for them to finish things up in 7 seasons and get to the conclusion.

    GRRM should have known this ahead of time and not done so many non-writing obligations.

  17. Rogge
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

    This confuses me greatly.

    He won’t be writing an epside for season 5? Weren’t those written months ago, and are now being filmed?

    Is it supposed to say that he won’t be writing one for season 6?

  18. Addam of Hull
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    Valandil Elanessë Di Chocolat,

    God forbid Martin do anything but what you want him to do. How dare he take three or four years to write a book. That has never, ever happened in the history of writing. Everyone knows that every top-notch author is capable of churning out 1,500 pages of pure quality writing in six months. Martin’s just a slacker, that hack.

    I don’t even know why anybody bothers to read this asshole’s books. He is clearly violating the unwritten contract between author and reader that guarantees said author is to work 80 hours a week on his book. Don’t forget the provision that states he’s never allowed to talk about anything but ASOIAF.

    Damn that Martin.

    DAMN HIM.

  19. Hizdahr Zo Loraq for President
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    The interviewer should be commended for being educated on the story and for asking the real questions to George. It’s been years of the same boring script with his interviews and great to actually get some new information. Bravo to Vulture, and to Terri, and to G.R.R.M. for not dodging the questions. After my disappointment in watching the so-called panel forbid and dance around all of the relevant questions again, I felt that this was a massive step in the right direction.

  20. Vagabond23
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    Anyone think that maybe the Blackfish is the prologue Character?

  21. The Bastard
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    Addam of Hull:
    Valandil Elanessë Di Chocolat,

    God forbid Martin do anything but what you want him to do.How dare he take three or four years to write a book.That has never, ever happened in the history of writing.Everyone knows that every top-notch author is capable of churning out 1,500 pages of pure quality writing in six months.Martin’s just a slacker, that hack.

    I don’t even know why anybody bothers to read this asshole’s books.He is clearly violating the unwritten contract between author and reader that guarantees said author is to work 80 hours a week on his book.Don’t forget the provision that states he’s never allowed to talk about anything but ASOIAF.

    Damn that Martin.

    DAMN HIM.

    The fact is that GRRM sold the rights to his story for television, and then procrastinated so much that the show will likely finish first.

    That is his choice, but makes him look foolish.

  22. xadrez
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    Perhaps another reason for him not writing a season 5 episode is the fact that he is not liking some of the adaptation choices.Even considering all the difficulties D and D have in adapting, they surely (and easily) could have been closer to the books (both in spirit and story) in some cases if they wanted to.That is a fact IMO.

    I think this regardless of the book author’s personality is going to piss off said author.

  23. sjwenings
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    I hope this truly is about finishing the book and not some kind of conflict with D&D.

    Both not writing a script and not visiting the set – I wonder if show-related stuff are the only cancelled things.

    I want to believe, bit it’s just hard to have faith in the words of a writer that neglects his most beloved series so often.

  24. The Bastard
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    xadrez:
    Perhaps another reason for him not writing a season 5 episode is the fact that he is not liking some of the adaptation choices.Even considering all the difficulties D and D have in adapting, they surely (and easily) could have been closer to the books (both in spirit and story) in some cases if they wanted to.That is a fact IMO.

    I think this regardless of the book author’s personality is going to piss off said author.

    AFFC & ADWD adds so many characters that it would be impossible for the show to add all of those story lines. And AFFC & ADWD are not exactly interesting TV Show material. A lot of story lines are internal character conflicts that would translate horribly to GoT.

    GRRM stopped writing for the show, stopped showing up to the show, and is trying to stop being away from home. If you just had the first two, you would have a point. All 3 combined point in only one direction. He is behind the show and he is desperately trying to catch up.

  25. strokememarge
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    The Bastard,

    The fact is that GRRM sold the rights to his story for television, and then procrastinated so much that the show will likely finish first.

    He not only sold the rights to ASoIaF, he sold the tv/film rights to his intellectual property of the world of Westeros and Essos. HBO can adapt Dunk’n'Egg, R.R., anything they so choose from his world to TV or the big screen.

  26. ADB
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    strokememarge:
    The Bastard,

    He not only sold the rights to ASoIaF, he sold the tv/film rights to his intellectual property of the world of Westeros and Essos. HBO can adapt Dunk’n’Egg, R.R., anything they so choose from his world to TV or the big screen.

    Actually no; he sold the rights to the Westeros setting, but not to any of the other stuff he’s made outside of the regular book series. So they can’t go and do Dunk and Egg, for instance, without going back and cutting a new deal with him.

    Of course it does cut the other way too; since they own the setting, he can’t sell the rights to any of his other Westeros stories without taking them out of Westeros.

  27. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    Hmmm….Given the lack of script status info from GRRM (like prev years), I was wondering if this would happen. This situation has positive and negative connotations.

    Positive: GRRM is getting pumped and focused for wrapping up TWoW & beginning ADoS. He is taking his powerful responsibility seriously (possibly with huge fiscal incentives as well)

    Negative: D&D have veered so far off the beaten path that GRRM doesn’t recognize his story anymore and has nothing of substance that he can contribute…..which supports the “books are the books and the show is the show” statement he always asserts. Realizing that he cannot balance his story and D&D’s adaptation, he has stepped aside, hoping that the fanbase will accept the vast difference between the two diverging stories. This cannot be easy for him.

    Edit: Another negative connotation could be that GRRM is ramping up more side projects as he gets older and slower and wants time for them as well. :/

  28. Lightbringer
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    I’m just going to leave this here…

    Moderation Policy

    No personal attacks.
    No trolling or spamming.
    No overly offensive, obscene or vulgar posts.

    This applies to anything directed at other commenters, George R.R. Martin, and generally any human being.
    :)

  29. Vyrion
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    It never ceases to amaze me the endless rudeness directed towards George on these comments. Some of you should be ashamed. Or grow up.

  30. Lightbringer
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    Severance23:
    So not writing an episode for season 5 will give Gorge how much time – 3-4 weeks at most?

    An extra month could make a huge difference. It could mean that the showrunners will have a working copy of the book before they start to write Season 6.

  31. The Bastard
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard:
    Hmmm….this has positive and negative connotations.

    Positive: GRRM is getting pumped and focused for wrapping up TWoW & beginning ADoS. He is taking his powerful responsibility seriously (possibly with huge fiscal incentives as well)

    Negative: D&D have veered so far off the beaten path that GRRM doesn’t recognize his story anymore and has nothing of substance that he can contribute…..which supports the “books are the books and the show is the show” statement he always makes. Realizing that he cannot balance his story and D&D’s adaptation, he has stepped aside, hoping that the fanbase will accept the vast difference between the two diverging stories.

    How could GRRM not recognize the show anymore? This is the best book to television adaption to a complex story that has ever been done so far. If GRRM isn’t happy with it, he can’t be pleased.

  32. Ironborn
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    Good news that he wants to advance his writing… Season 5 will be a mess.

    I don’t wanna start a shitstorm, I’d just rather be pessimistic and be surprised.

  33. The Bastard
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    Ironborn:
    Good news that he wants to advance his writing… Season 5 will be a mess.

    I don’t wanna start a shitstorm, I’d just rather be pessimistic and be surprised.

    Why do you think Season 5 will be a mess? Because of the casting? Or because of the source material?

  34. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    The Bastard: How could GRRM not recognize the show anymore?This is the best book to television adaption to a complex story that has ever been done so far.If GRRM isn’t happy with it, he can’t be pleased.

    I don’t disagree but authors can be pretty particular (I got that impression about GRRM after reading his editor’s responses to our questions). Even though he may be satisfied with what D&D have done (as many of us are), he probably is in a different mental place and has realized that he doesn’t need to write an episode anymore. D&D have it in hand and there is a new writer in the mix (which was probably planned a long time ago too).

  35. slaz
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    The Bastard:
    More signs that he is behind and likely won’t end the series before the television show.

    “likely”? It’s a certainty. The show is ending in 3 or 4 seasons MAX. That means, 2017-2018. The last two books took him 5 and 6 years to write. No chance in hell he writes 2 in 3-4 years.

    The show will pass the books. The only question is when. We should have tWoW content in season 5 because Sansa is close to the end of her arc. If tWoW isn’t released within 2 years, I assume most of it will be on the show first. And GRRM’s editor said it was unlikely to come out in 2015, so…

  36. Ironborn
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

    crabber’s son:
    he wouldnt even know how to write an episode without 80 percent of his affc/adwdmain characters which dont seem to be gettin cast

    LOL. I hope you don’t mind, I’ve stolen your comment and wrote at another forum hahaha.

  37. The Bastard
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    slaz: “likely”? It’s a certainty. The show is ending in 3 or 4 seasons MAX. That means, 2017-2018. The last two books took him 5 and 6 years to write. No chance in hell he writes 2 in 3-4 years.

    The show will pass the books. The only question is when. We should have tWoW content in season 5 because Sansa is close to the end of her arc. If tWoW isn’t released within 2 years, I assume most of it will be on the show first. And GRRM’s editor said it was unlikely to come out in 2015, so…

    I was trying to be nice. I agree with you. The show is going to be 7 seasons which means it will end in under 3 years. With TWOW not coming out in 2015, we are looking at Book 6 likely coming out as the scripts are being written for season 7 (and book 7).

  38. crabber's son
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    obviously george wont say im not happy with the direction of the show so i no longer enjoy writing an episode for the show. I mean he had perviously stated that he really enjoyed writing an episode every season and he even was talking about getting ready to write an episode for season 5 about like 3 weeks ago. I doubt he had an epiphany in those three weeks about finishing twow i feel as if maybe he was filled in on what season 5 will look like and maybe didnt approve. Imagine what it must feel like when fans of the show are asking him about the poor decisions such as the rape scene or crasters keep diversion, or no lsh when he actually didnt have any say in the matter. If you want to compare an author who is a big part of a show look at walking dead. The show has diverted from the comics slightly but no character has been cut theres no talk of limiting seasons as much as possible and any interview you watch robert kirkman is well aware of everything that is happening with the story, although he is a producer i believe. I feel that D&D aiming at 7 seasons is an indication of them losing interest, most shows always give optimistic answers about having as many seasons as possible and there is more than enough story to stretch to 8-9 seasons. If the greyjoys, arianne, YG, OG, LSH, Quentyn, CH, and the KM are cut im sure D&D will make it work for the non book readers but its still kind of a slap to the face for GRRM and book fans even if the plot wasnt that entertaining at times.

  39. The Bastard
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    crabber’s son:
    obviously george wont say im not happy with the direction of the show so i no longer enjoy writing an episode for the show. I mean he had perviously stated that he really enjoyed writing an episode every season and he even was talking about getting ready to write an episode for season 5 about like 3 weeks ago. I doubt he had an epiphany in those three weeks about finishing twow i feel as if maybe he was filled in on what season 5 will look like and maybe didnt approve. Imagine what it must feel like when fans of the show are asking him about the poor decisions such as the rape scene or crasters keep diversion, or no lsh when he actually didnt have any say in the matter. If you want to compare an author who is a big part of a show look at walking dead. The show has diverted from the comics slightly but no character has been cut theres no talk of limiting seasons as much as possible and any interview you watch robert kirkman is well aware of everything that is happening with the story, although he is a producer i believe. I feel that D&D aiming at 7 seasons is an indication of them losing interest, most shows always give optimistic answers about having as many seasons as possible and there is more than enough story to stretch to 8-9 seasons. If the greyjoys, arianne, YG, OG, LSH, Quentyn, CH, and the KM are cut im sure D&D will make it work for the non book readers but its still kind of a slap to the face for GRRM and book fans even if the plot wasnt that entertaining at times.

    Perhaps shows are learning from Breaking Bad. Do as many seasons as you need to tell a great story and get out on top.

    The show is better then the books. This isn’t a slap in the face to GRRM. This is an improvement to the source material.

  40. Spacelike
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    Vyrion:
    It never ceases to amaze me the endless rudeness directed towards George on these comments.Some of you should be ashamed.Or grow up.

    Watching that 3 min interview I couldn’t be more relieved at what I heard.

    1. His dedication to writing the book is first and foremost, but can’t skip out on existing obligations (completely understandable).
    2. When he writes, the show does not exist.

    Flipping the bird to the callous “fans” and tidbits like the above are why GRRM rocks your faces.

  41. Grynthaline
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    Vyrion,

    Well, what do you expect. This site has become the polar opposite of Westeros.org, the ‘purists’ go there for discussion and rants, and the ‘show worshippers’ stay here and praise the show and try to shoot down or shoo anyone who tries to complain or raise a legitimate question about a thing.

  42. The Bastard
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    Grynthaline:
    Vyrion,

    Well, what do you expect. This site has become the polar opposite of Westeros.org, the ‘purists’ go there for discussion and rants, and the ‘show worshippers’ stay here and praise the show and try to shoot down or shoo anyone who tries to complain or raise a legitimate question about a thing.

    The book purists are much worse. Nothing pleases them.

    The show lovers seem to just love the shows and laugh at the fact that GRRM won’t finish first

  43. ADB
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    Grynthaline:
    Vyrion,

    Well, what do you expect. This site has become the polar opposite of Westeros.org, the ‘purists’ go there for discussion and rants, and the ‘show worshippers’ stay here and praise the show and try to shoot down or shoo anyone who tries to complain or raise a legitimate question about a thing.

    When people find some legitimate issues, as opposed to demonstrating the “It’s popular, now it sucks” trope, they’ll be discussed.

    As far as the number of seasons, people need to remember that 7 seasons is likely a very real limit for them. Actor contracts are for 7 seasons maximum, so going to 8 or 9 would require them to pretty much renegotiate and give a raise to EVERYONE on the show. And HBO doesn’t get to hike ad rates for their hit shows the way networks do. So most likely the reason they’re aiming for a 7 season plan. (Which I suspect will have an extra-long 7th season, probably 16 episodes split over 2017-2018.)

  44. Lion of Night
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    ArgonathofBraavos:

    It’s amazing to me the need people have to find conflict in everything.

    It is known.

  45. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    Vagabond23:
    Anyone think that maybe the Blackfish is the prologue Character?

    Interesting. Personally, I thought BF was headed in another direction than west. Maybe there is an heir after all?

    In any case, my predictions are a bit more dour. I think JW will meet her demise in the prologue, possibly before “something precious” is stolen.

  46. NewJeffCT
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

    Lady Stoneheart will be the prologue character in Winds of Winter. ;)

    I’ve seen a few articles in the past few days about how Martin is rushing to get the book released at the same time as Season 5. Not sure how accurate they are, though.

    http://www.lawyerherald.com/articles/6182/20140724/winds-winter-eyed-release-together-game-thrones-season-5-george-r-r-martin.htm

  47. JTargs
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

    crabber’s son:
    he wouldnt even know how to write an episode without 80 percent of his affc/adwdmain characters which dont seem to be gettin cast

    Shit man god forbid the show neglects to throw in hundreds of unnecessary background characters Dornish and otherwise that don’t do anything for the plot and would confuse the crap out of the entire TV audience

  48. Josh M. Parker
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    I’m actually encouraged. This is what he did just before announcing that ADwD was completed. He seems to have this “buckle down” approach to it in the last few weeks/months before he finally finishes, so I am starting to think he may be in that mode now. We’ll see.

    BTW, I am no GRRM apologist. I’ve been saying for the past year or so that laziness is really the only excuse GRRM has for not finishing, and I was NOT a fan of his “fuck you” response to fans who had a legitimate worry.

    In other words, if this makes me think he’s serious, he may very well be.

  49. JTargs
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    Something precious? Im probably not seeing something obvious but what does this refer to

  50. JTargs
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    The Bastard: Perhaps shows are learning from Breaking Bad.Do as many seasons as you need to tell a great story and get out on top.

    The show is better then the books.This isn’t a slap in the face to GRRM.This is an improvement to the source material.

    I agree. The reason that so many showrunners want to have as many seasons as possible is the same reason that Hollywood makes horrific sequels and splits final books up into two movies: because they want to make as much money as they can and milk the saga for all its worth. David and dan have showed that they love this story and are committed to creating something great. “10 seasons and a movie” or whatever it is GRRM wants to do would be complete overkill and result in some drawn out, boring plot that fizzles and dies. Seven seasons is a great way to bring the perfect end to a great story without milking it.

  51. Thorne47
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    I am sick and tired of you people complaining about the amount of time it takes for him to write his books. Its only been three years since the release of the last one. If you take the time to look, Martin has taken several years (sometimes six) to write his books. Who are you to rush him now because there is a television show. I hope I’m not alone in the thinking that I would much rather him take his time and continue to provide us with quality storytelling, instead of crapping out words on a page because you are too impatient. Get over yourself and let the man live his life.

  52. Kelly
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    It’s encouraging news that TWOW may be out in 2015 if GRRM has the manuscript into his editor by the end of the year. Based on his editor’s comments, he had submitted about 300 pages a year and a half ago, so he could have a completed manuscript for her soon.

    I don’t think that his writing commitments for the show are to blame for his slow pace on TWOW. He’s edited two volumes of short stories, both of which he contributed a story towards, and an encyclopedia of the series. If he was known for being a more prolific writer, I don’t think people would be getting so annoyed with his side projects taking precedence over the main series.

  53. JTargs
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard:
    Hmmm….Given the lack of script status info from GRRM (like prev years), I was wondering if this would happen. This situation has positive and negative connotations.

    Positive: GRRM is getting pumped and focused for wrapping up TWoW & beginning ADoS. He is taking his powerful responsibility seriously (possibly with huge fiscal incentives as well)

    Negative: D&D have veered so far off the beaten path that GRRM doesn’t recognize his story anymore and has nothing of substance that he can contribute…..which supports the “books are the books and the show is the show” statement he always asserts. Realizing that he cannot balance his story and D&D’s adaptation, he has stepped aside, hoping that the fanbase will accept the vast difference between the two diverging stories. This cannot be easy for him.

    Edit: Another negative connotation could be that GRRM is ramping up more side projects as he gets older and slower and wants time for them as well. :/

    I dont understand how people can say stuff like this and believe it

    Like yes david and daniel have made changes to the original source material… what adaption in the world hasnt!? Its extremely, extremely similar and as close as it can possibly be in order to work on a TV format. Im sorry, but they simply are not going to include strong belwas or anyone whos ever been near a Martell or give bran nothing to do for nine episodes in an effort to buy GRRM time to write. I dont know why people act like the show makes up its own plot or something. This is just as on track as any other adaption ive ever seen. You dont have to like every change (I thought Oathkeeper was the worst episode of the series minus the jaime brienne screen hogging in S3), but you cant argue that this show is wildly diverging from the books. Its not.

  54. Chriss
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    JTargs: Shit man god forbid the show neglects to throw in hundreds of unnecessary background characters Dornish and otherwise that don’t do anything for the plot and would confuse the crap out of the entire TV audience

    Yeah, god forbid they stick to the actual story, which you find so unnecessary. Hopefully in its place, we can have gems such as Yara breaking into an empty dreadfort, having travelled for an entire season, only to be rebuffed by a shirtless super villain Ramsay, then run away with her 50 best iron born killers… at the threat of two dogs. I still cringe.

    Oh, oh! Or maybe we can have another three episode fan fiction about Craster’s Keep! That went down so well with Sullied and Unsullied alike, after all. Maybe we can throw in, I don’t know, vampires, or something, to go with our undead skeleton army.

    And maybe for the finale we can have Super Saiyan Night King and Jon Snow fly above Westeros and battle it out. Wait, we can’t do that. We’d have no way to include tits then :/ Lets make them fight in a brothel. Maybe it can happen after Jaime goes through another redemptive arc only to accidentally rape Brienne.

    Nah, season 5′s going to be a catastrophe if they’ve decided to procede with their own little fan fictions. I’ve always said the way they have handled character has elevated the books, made them better than they were. But the way they handle story brings it crashing back to earth.

  55. crabber's son
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    JTargs,

    i am all for cutting anyone who isnt important but i always saw people like arianne and greyjoys as pretty much the new main characters in affc and parts of adwd. If i was to cut anyone it would be the sandsnakes, trystane or areo hotah and yet they are the only ones that were cast.

  56. Ignis
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    What I would love to see is the show do 7 seasons, covering only the first 6 books. This would give book 6 at least 1.5 seasons (most of 6 and all of 7), and maybe even a little more if they have an extra long season 7.

    After that they could have 2 prequel seasons, which would use a new cast and therefore not have to worry about extending contracts and such (also would keep the main series to 7 seasons which is nice), and in the meanwhile shoot a movie trilogy for book 7 using the main cast.

    If they do something like this then the first movie for book 7 would come out around the end of 2020, and assuming book 6 comes out next year (2015), that would give a solid 5 years for the 7th book to be written and to come out before the first movie of book 7 is released.

    That would be pretty ideal in my opinion but who knows what will happen. I mean the Hobbit had a trilogy… I can dream.

  57. Valdred Dethstorm
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    Ignis:
    What I would love to see is the show do 7 seasons, covering only the first 6 books. This would give book 6 at least 1.5 seasons (most of 6 and all of 7), and maybe even a little more if they have an extra long season 7.

    After that they could have 2 prequel seasons, which would use a new cast and therefore not have to worry about extending contracts and such (also would keep the main series to 7 seasons which is nice), and in the meanwhile shoot a movie trilogy for book 7 using the main cast.

    If they do something like this then the first movie for book 7 would come out around the end of 2020, and assuming book 6 comes out next year (2015), that would give a solid 5 years for the 7th book to be written and to come out before the first movie of book 7 is released.

    That would be pretty ideal in my opinion but who knows what will happen. I mean the Hobbit had a trilogy… I can dream.

    Prequel seasons, movie trilogies…
    Some of you just refuse to come out from your denial, right?

  58. Valdred Dethstorm
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    Chriss: Yeah, god forbid they stick to the actual story, which you find so unnecessary. Hopefully in its place, we can have gems such as Yara breaking into an empty dreadfort, having travelled for an entire season, only to be rebuffed by a shirtless super villain Ramsay, then run away with her 50 best iron born killers… at the threat of two dogs. I still cringe.

    Oh, oh! Or maybe we can have another three episode fan fiction about Craster’s Keep! That went down so well with Sullied and Unsullied alike, after all. Maybe we can throw in, I don’t know, vampires, or something, to go with our undead skeleton army.

    And maybe for the finale we can have Super Saiyan Night King and Jon Snow fly above Westeros and battle it out. Wait, we can’t do that. We’d have no way to include tits then :/ Lets make them fight in a brothel. Maybe it can happen after Jaime goes through another redemptive arc only to accidentally rape Brienne.

    Nah, season 5′s going to be a catastrophe if they’ve decided to procede with their own little fan fictions. I’ve always said the way they have handled character has elevated the books, made them better than they were. But the way they handle story brings it crashing back to earth.

    Lol you must think you’re so clever and funny.

  59. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

    JTargs:
    Hodor’s Bastard,
    Something precious? Im probably not seeing something obvious but what does this refer to

    I was inferring that JW might be with child (as was Talisa)…except this one may live (maybe stolen, maybe protected…). Why would GRRM ever visit with JW again if not because of another Stark heir? GRRM does like his baby mysteries!

    Regarding your other comment (regarding GRRM’s alienation from GoT)…there was nothing harsh or illogical about my comment. An inevitable divergence is totally plausible. You’re correct that GoT will never be as complex as ASoI&F and D&D will make (have made) choices that are substantively different. He is courteously distancing himself intentionally to keep focus and to keep his mind in context. He is a purist at heart, by the way. :)

  60. kdenn1020
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    Lightbringer,

    My thoughts exactly. I skimmed through the comments and it’s very clear that most of the quality commentors have left the site. Too many people bitching about his non-writing activities.

  61. Easteros Bunny
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    I don’t care, my enthusiasm for the books have dropped.

    One of my mates passed away a few years ago , he like game of thrones we always talked about the books. He would always ask me if I knew when the next book would be coming out.

    He knew he was dying and would never find out what happens. Because of that I simply couldn’t give a shit about the books. If they come out great, if they don’t, fine.

    The creative process is a bitch.

  62. Bgap
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    Echoing an earlier post, it’s strange GRRM is saying he won’t be doing a script for season 5, as if it was a recent decision. Season 5 scripts had to be completed in late spring for the show runners to map out the shooting schedule for the production of next season which started last week. Season 6 script assignments will go out late fall. Unless GRRM shares his TWOW manuscript draft with the show writers, Season 6 will be completely different than the books, except for general plot points and story arcs that he’s told them about. (He met with David, Dan and Bryan C in Santa Fe, winter of 2013, to tell them how the story would end and what was going to happen with the characters)

  63. Josh M. Parker
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    kdenn1020,

    I left the site due to all the purists acting as though the world had come to an end because of this change or that change.

    The way I see it is like two separate cars going to the same place and for the most part going on the same road, but with a few differences in how they get there. One might take a short cut or stop for lunch at a different place, but ultimately they both get to where they’re going. Also, I appreciate what James Cain said about his books being turned into movies. When asked about what was being done to his books, he said:

    “People tell me, don’t you care what they’ve done to your book? I tell them, they haven’t done anything to my book. It’s right there on the shelf. They paid me and that’s the end of it.”

    The books aren’t ruined. They’re on my shelf. If I take down ASoS and check the epilogue, there’s LS doing her thing.

  64. Josh M. Parker
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    Thorne47,

    I know every writer is different. But there is only one other author in this genre that I know of who takes as long as GRRM to finish a book, and that is Patrick Rothfuss. Well, Scott Lynch took a while to get Gentlemen Bastards #3 out, but so far that’s his only long wait. Brandon Sanderson, Steven Erikson, Joe Abercrombie, Daniel Abraham, R. Scott Bakker, etc. are just a few examples of modern fantasy authors who write very long books and yet manage to finish them pretty fast, at least by comparison. Three years to write a book? Sure. I can understand that. But GRRM took five years to get AFfC out and another six to get ADwD out. And don’t tell me it was because of all the complex plots and characters that are in these books. Most fans agree that these last two books really dropped the ball in terms of moving the plot and characters forward.

    Not to mention that Steven Erikson has created a series far more complex than ASOIAF ever dreamed about being and popped out each dictionary-sized volume in that series right on schedule. I know each author is different, but I’m not just talking about one author verses another. I am saying that GRRM is the odd man out in terms of how long it takes him to get a book finished. And it seems the longer he takes, the lamer the product. If the long waits were worth it, I doubt as many people would complain.

  65. EverydayI'mHodoring
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

    Come on, where mah nerds at? This topic can’t stall out at 66 posts…

  66. Mcpato
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    This comments make me sad.
    This man has given us (all of us, sullied and unsullied, life-long readers and new readers)some of the best written and beautifully developed characters in recent literature, some of the most badass and amazing scenes in modern fantasy, some of the most chilling, depressing, exciting and wonderful moments we will ever get the chance to read/watch, and yet all you can think of is how late he is?
    GRRM can take all the time he wants, he can do whatever the fuck he wants because he is first a human fucking being, then a writer. Let him do as say as he likes, in my humble opinion he has won the right to do so. Let him take his time and finish TWoW when it’s the right time to do it, and i asure you it will be beautiful. just enjoy the series and wait and then enjoy the books and be fucking happy. let the man be

    we as fans must do our part too, you know
    valar dohaeris my brothers. peace

  67. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

    EverydayI’mHodoring:
    Come on, where mah nerds at? This topic can’t stall out at 66 posts…

    69th!

  68. Ironborn
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 10:53 pm | Permalink

    EverydayI’mHodoring:
    Come on, where mah nerds at? This topic can’t stall out at 66 posts…

    Martin is the one true god. 70th

  69. RosanaZugey
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

    As a general comment, I’m confused about where GRRM is going with these books. He keeps expanding the world. So much so, that I’m not sure even 8 books will do the trick. He’s got a lot of main storylines that need resolving (or at the very least…ADVANCING *cough* Sansa *cough*), and that’s on top of bringing back dead or inconsequential characters (LS and Jeyne Westerling). He’s talked about expanding minor character roles (Osha, Tyrell brothers) and now he has to introduce new characters then kill them off (from that Wolf Sanctuary fundraiser). It’s like he keeps adding ingredients to a soup that’s already salty as hell.

    Say whatever you want about the show, but at least they’re going somewhere and quickly; without a lot of detours. I appreciate the show for that fact alone (even if it means cutting characters).

  70. King in the North Carolina
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 11:26 pm | Permalink

    The books are great!
    The show is great, too!

    I don’t understand why any fan would stop reading/watching one just because the other finishes first.

  71. Vagabond23
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 11:34 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    yea my friend and I immediately thought the prologue would be the Blackfish since the Westerling family was loyal to Robb even though the Spicers sucked. I don’t think either one will die just yet based on George saying he can change the rules of the prologue/epilogue POVs. I really hope it is the Blackfish because I can’t think of any other character to interact with her that early on.

  72. Funkysylvanelf
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 11:54 pm | Permalink

    Josh M. Parker,

    Thank you for your comment. It reflect exactly what I feel about the wait for this serie to end. I’m actually midway through the Malazan Empire serie by Steven Erikson & it is far more complex & complete than ASOIAF & I couldn’t believe how could he finish something so massive in so little time. The treshold for a trilogy for me its 6 years. From the look of it, ASOIAF will probably be complete by the 25th anniversary of the first book. That’s insane. Well, no worries, I’ll still wait for paperback version to come out.

  73. winterfell
    Posted July 26, 2014 at 11:55 pm | Permalink

    xadrez:
    That is a fact IMO.

    So you clearly don’t understand the difference between opinion and fact.

  74. Hal Winslow's Old Buddy
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 12:59 am | Permalink

    Josh M. Parker,

    Darn that Tolkien!!It took him TWENTY years to come up with a sequel to The Hobbit and then he putzed around for ANOTHER twenty years not finishing The Silmarillion so that his son Christopher had to finish it (and the rest of his work as well!). I begrudge every moment he spent hiking in the woods, going to hobbit dinners in Amsterdam, hanging out with Edith and the kids or C.S. Lewis and his Inkling buddies (probably drinking!), grading exams and giving lectures, etc. And after he retired in 1959 he had NO DANG EXCUSE for not buckling down and finishing ‘er up!!

  75. Oakenhart
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 1:02 am | Permalink

    crabber’s son:
    JTargs,

    i am all for cutting anyone who isnt important but i always saw people like arianne and greyjoys as pretty much the new main characters in affc and parts of adwd. If i was to cut anyone it would be the sandsnakes, trystane or areo hotah and yet they are the only ones that were cast.

    This – I am flabbergasted by the casting choice. I thought a sexy, exotic Arienne Martell with the seduction of a King’s Guard, and the Queenmaker plot as well as the Doran – Griff and Quentyn reveal would make great TV

  76. King Varys
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 1:49 am | Permalink

    It may be that some authors publish more quickly than GRRM. Still, saying he is slow is absurd. 1500 pages in 5 years means roughly a page a day. Very few good autors manage that – the guy above who mentioned Tolkien is spot on. 9 out of 10 really good books are years in the making, some authors work 5 years for a 300 page book, not a 1500 page one. Saying that Martin is slow shows a deep misunderstanding of who writing works. I’ll gladly wait another three years if the result is worth it. Even if he took him 10 he would still be pretty average as far as his writing speed is concerned.

  77. BlackTalon
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 2:50 am | Permalink

    Am I the only one who is actually HOPING the show will pass the books and have a different story? That way I will get to enjoy the show first and then I will still be able to look forward to the books with their much richer plot and, I guess, even an at least slightly different – and surprising – ending.

  78. garyd
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 3:45 am | Permalink

    I come on this site often but don’t usually post my thoughts but I will on this topic.I think some of the comments towards George are out of order, and as far as the books and the show are going in different directions, that doesn’t bother me too much I love both individually. The show has too cut a lot of the characters from the book because it gets to confusing for non book readers to keep up with who is who in the show. I have read the books but most people I know who watch the show haven’t and they are all ready losing track with who is who on the show. When reading the books it’s easy to flip to the back to check who a certain character is, you don’t have that option whilst watching on tv. There are a lot more people watching the show who haven’t read the books than people who have, so non book readers will be the target audience.

  79. loco73
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 3:49 am | Permalink

    Atta boy George!

    Besides don’t listen to all these tired, recycled, continous complaints from people who have nothing else to add to this conversation besides their own brainfarts. Hint, there are plenty of other books to read in the meantime and plenty of stuff to do with your lives, besides getting angry because a writer doesn’t function within the parameters of your particular expectations!

    Please if you think you can do a better job…go ahead, by all means!

  80. AlayneStone
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 5:13 am | Permalink

    xadrez:
    Perhaps another reason for him not writing a season 5 episode is the fact that he is not liking some of the adaptation choices.Even considering all the difficulties D and D have in adapting, they surely (and easily) could have been closer to the books (both in spirit and story) in some cases if they wanted to.That is a fact IMO.

    I agree. Maybe Martin does not like the changes and prefers not to take part in that story. Without Arianne and Aegon, it seems that this season is going to be quite different from the books.

    If it was only a question of time, Martin would have not written “A World of Ice and Fire” or travelled that much.

    If true, it is a bit sad that he does not feel the show story as his own anymore. However, if it helps to motivate him to finish the books and give us fans his own version of the story, that will be a good thing.

    I am glad that we are going to get an ending for the story through the show, but knowing it is going to cut and change so many things, I am more willing to read the story as Martin thought of it initially, with all its characters and richness.

    Let us hope we get TWOW soon.

  81. GeekFurious
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 5:14 am | Permalink

    Valandil Elanessë Di Chocolat:
    How convenient of you to remember you have a book to finish just now, while going on vacation, visiting cons and blogging about your movie theater.

    GRRM doesn’t work for you. Hell, if he wanted, he could just stop writing now. And you couldn’t do shit about it.

  82. Stannisthemannis
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 6:48 am | Permalink

    I don’t understand why people are saying the relationship between D&D and GRRM is getting strained and all that. They just said D&D spent a week at GRRM’s house earlier this year when the three of them outlined the next season and what they would have to change from the books to make the TV series work. It seems so weird to me how people seem to be minimizing GRRM’s role in the series.

  83. Tatters
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    Macharius,

    Nobody like complainers either.

  84. Daphne
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    I’m nervous that the show might become an absolute D&D fanfiction because GRRM would not be around so much. Oh well at least we have the books.

  85. Tatters
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    Josh M. Parker,

    Erikson kisses GRRMs ass. He claims he cant even try what he is doing.

  86. DJ Sunspear
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    Everyone who talks about how far the show has veered from the books seems to be forgetting that this season they only had a handful of chapters to work with. Going forward they have two (very long) books’ worth of GRRM material. I know that a lot will be cut, but there’s no reason they can’t get two seasons out of AFFC and ADWD.

  87. spacechampion
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    Fans, they’re like needy girlfriends/boyfriends.

  88. Joshua White
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    Big fan of the show and the first three books (only). Nice gesture, but about four years too late. The fact is that George Martin sold the rights to his story for television, and then procrastinated so much that the show will likely finish first, that was his choice, but it does make him look clueless.

    GOT has a number of famous actors on seven year contracts that would be impossibly expensive for a subscription station like HBO to renegotiate. This doesn’t bother me, though, because seven seasons seems like the perfect time frame for a high quality serialized show. Like Breaking Bad, keep it tight and strong throughout, then go out on top. No need to milk thinks with hundreds of unnecessary background characters who do not push the plot forward. This story is about Tyrion, Dany, Jon, Arya, Cercei, Stannis, Jamie, Bran, and a handful of others surrounding them. Can’t wait for Season 5!

  89. Chameleon
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    Chriss,

    Ha! Too true, and this comes from a fan of both the show and the books….nothing wrong with pointing out the head-scratching choices as well as the great ones IMO.

  90. Mallister
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    Tatters:
    Josh M. Parker,

    Erikson kisses GRRMs ass. He claims he cant even try what he is doing.

    Erikson is a very humble author and insanely gifted at the same time. They are doing very different things within the genre but Martin’s work has a much broader appeal.

  91. Winter
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    Nice Mr Martin! You continue writing this masterpiece and serve me some Sansa goodness, we sure are due a Sansa POV, it’s been way too long…

  92. The Dragon Demands
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Unfortunate, but not unexpected.

  93. Kyrenna
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    loco73:
    Atta boy George!

    Besides don’t listen to all these tired, recycled, continous complaints from people who have nothing else to add to this conversation besides their own brainfarts. Hint, there are plenty of other books to read in the meantime and plenty of stuff to do with your lives, besides getting angry because a writer doesn’t function within the parameters of your particular expectations!

    Hear f**king hear.

    For me, I’m glad GRRM has come to this conclusion, now. With him more ‘out’ of the show, it will be easier to see them as two different things, again. So when the show comes to an ending before the books, it won’t feel I got spoiled :)

  94. Michelle Mauler
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    Hal Winslow’s Old Buddy,

    Unfortunately GRRM’s personal attacks on his audience have begun to distract attention away from his work. And even more unfortunately, when a series stalls, that distracts away from the work, too. Fans run out of things to say about the work after a few years. Speculation about what’s going to happen next changes to whether anything at all is going to happen next, when too many years go by.

    Tolkien didn’t have this problem, because he wrote the book first, THEN split it up into installments and released them. The whole thing was already written when the audience first got it. Publishers were able to release the sequels in accord with the demand, and never ask Tolkien if the next bit was ready yet.

    If you are the sort of person who gets very angry about audiences nagging or speculating or commenting on a work in progress, perhaps the best thing is not to do serialized storytelling, which is fueled by that very thing, but instead to just write one book at a time.

  95. major tom
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    crabber’s son,

    and thank goodness for cutting superfluous characters

  96. Josh M. Parker
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Hal Winslow’s Old Buddy,

    Tolkien never intended to write a sequel to The Hobbit. In fact, for a long while he refused to.

    The Silmarillion was not initially meant for publication. Tolkien used it as background for himself.

    And none of Tolkien’s novels left readers on a cliffhanger, let alone one they weren’t sure would ever be resolved.

    Apples and oranges, my friend.

  97. wsze12432
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    Easteros Bunny,

    You friend didn’t get the know the ending of a fantasy trilogy? Jesus Christ, that must be hard!

  98. TheOrqwithVagrant
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    I do think the people who are sensing some tension between D&D and GRRM may be on to something. I doubt it’s some deep unfixable schism that they won’t get over, but my suspicion is that omitting Tysha may have happened without Martin’s ‘approval’ and possibly even without his knowledge, and really ticked him off – he fell markedly silent after the season finale, and I had actually thought to myself ‘Martin may not write an ep. for S5 after this.’. Of course, him not writing an ep may be for NO other reason than what he’s stated, but I can’t help but wonder…

    I’m not much of a purist, and this is one of my favorite adaptions of anything, but that particular omission, to me, is by far the most egregious adaptive misstep, and the only time they’ve completely blown one of the ‘big scenes’ from the books.

  99. Hal Winslow's Old Buddy
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    Josh M. Parker,

    “Tolkien never intended to write a sequel to The Hobbit. In fact, for a long while he refused to.” Pretty much every word here is incorrect. The same month that “The Hobbit” came out, Tolkien met with Stanley Unwin and tried to sell him “The Silmarillion” (yes, he DID intend it for publication). He eventually reached agreement to do a new book about hobbits and wrote/submitted some chapters first about Bilbo (which eventually became “The Long Expected Party”) and then some about Bilbo’s son Bingo. He finally figured out where it was going (at least a little) in 1938, but he didn’t finish it until 1949 (by which time his “readers” Christopher and Rayner Unwin were fully grown). He got delayed by work, by family crises, by writer’s block, by writing OTHER things. He promised Unwin it was almost done–”just six more chapters”–in 1942, and again in 1946, before finally delivering a manuscript in late 1949. As for “The Silmarillion,” I can tell you as a child who read LOTR in the 60′s that we were repeatedly “promised” that the book was on the way and would be published any day now. Christopher Tolkien has written about the pressure his father (and subsequently himself) received from readers and publisher. So don’t go spouting revisionist history around here!

  100. Ronin
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    This made my day! I’m really glad Martin will put more effort into Winds and hopefully finish it soon

  101. Phiiiiil
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

    I genuinely wouldn’t have been surprised if his reason for taking season 5 off was so that he could go on MORE pointless tours and trips. Even though it seems like he is starting to take seriously the tension between show & book, i doubt Winds of Winer is even close to being finished. This is kind of like when you put off a school project the whole break and on the last day you’re like “Ok i’m definitely just gonna spend the WHOLE day working on it”

  102. Mindy
    Posted July 27, 2014 at 11:43 pm | Permalink

    I have to say, of all the comments sections I read, this one is easily the worst. People are incapable of disagreeing without being insulting and hateful. I truly don’t know why I keep reading, I guess I expect for it to just magically be better one day. But sadly, it looks like that will never be. Oh well, I’ll just have to stop-just like I don’t read Yahoo and YouTube comments.

  103. Eric Niewohner
    Posted July 28, 2014 at 1:02 am | Permalink

    Being a store manager at Barnes & Noble I can tell you that taking seven years to write a book is far, far, far from the norm. Even taking more than two years to write a book puts him in the slowest author category almost all by himself with Rothfus as company. I love the books, but what is sad is that the quality has dropped for the last two that took him longer to write! He is now over three years on this one and the earliest I see this one being released is summer of 2015 so in other words four years to write book six. Given his history then book seven will take at least four years as well so it will come out in 2019, two years after season 7 of the show will come out.

    There is no way the show is going to go on hiatus until GRRM catches up. Whether there is tension between D&D and GRRM is hard to say but certainly I am sure they are all frustrated that the show might finish before the books, however bottom line the only person to blame here is GRRM. He chooses not to write on the road, he chooses to go to practically every con, set visit and appearance he can. He certainly has every right to do what he wants in his life, but there are consequences for his actions and those consequences are that he is by far the slowest writing best selling author out there. I will also say that if he is frustrated with D&D that is ridiculous. While his books were bestsellers before the show, since the show his books have sold like crazy!! All five of his paperbacks have been in the B&N top 20 paperbacks tower for years, except for book five which just come out in paperback less than a year ago. Therefore the show has increased his personal wealth big time. It has also greatly increased his demand for appearances and I am sure what he charges for appearances as well. Also overall D&D have been very faithful to the heart of the book especially compared to most book to TV or movie adaptations. So really how can GRRM be frustrated with D&D their efforts, incredible hard work and determination have significantly increased GRRM’s wealth and his personal popularity tenfold at least.

    As far as this site being skewed towards people who favor the show well no duh the website was set up to chronicle the show. So grab a clue about that already. While I love the books I understand that there will be some changes made in the adaptation for goodness sakes. D&D busted their butts and showed amazing drive just to get HBO to greenlight this series and since it has been on those guys have continued to work their butts off to make the best show on TV!

  104. David
    Posted July 28, 2014 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    I feel so bad for GRRM. The guy is getting hounded for these books. Way more so now that the show is so popular. Yes i want the book as badly as everyone else, but not at the expense of a man’s sanity.

  105. Laurence
    Posted July 28, 2014 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    Addam of Hull,

    Oh my my! You don’t know anything about the writing process and the history of writing! Always in litterature history authors have taken decades and even lifetime to write books and there is no contract between authors and readers at all. Every author developp his own strategies with time, patience and passion.

    Martin don’t write in the plane, don’t write while traveling: he writes in his office at home when he is free to plunge and desapear in this world he has created.

    I trust Martin, and i am sure Winds of winter will be the best book of the series. That is why it is so long to write. It’s the famous winter the other books has been announcing all along.

    I can wait until the book is ready. i don’t want him to butch this one.

    I your are so frustrated with a story—-) get a life and discover others centers of interest!

    Laurence

  106. Awake Iron!
    Posted July 28, 2014 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    JTargs,

    Would you count Arianne Martell, the heiress of Dorne as one of those “unnecessary background characters that don’t do anything for the plot and would confuse the audience”?

  107. DanielHimalia
    Posted July 28, 2014 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    It’s such a shame that so much of this discussion still comes down to the old ‘books vs. TV’ argument.

    George R.R. Martin is a writer. You cannot begrudge him the time he needs to finish his book series. There is nothing wrong with being slow and meticulous as many people have said here.

    At the same time, HBO has a property that is going gangbusters for them, breaking their viewing records. Millions more people watch the show than read the books.

    This is why I believe season 5 will be the great divergence: by the end of the fifth season, with the truncation of so many story lines, book readers will no longer recognize the books in the show. And that’s a GREAT development, in my opinion. It gives book readers their purity, keeps the TV viewers interested for another year (when they only have seven seasons by all indications), removes the smugness from some of the book readers that they know what’s happening, and finally stands Game of Thrones on its own.

    At least in theory. Your mileage may vary.

  108. Govnor
    Posted July 28, 2014 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    I think we can all agree this is for the best.

  109. StannisIsTheMannis
    Posted July 28, 2014 at 11:21 pm | Permalink

    I’m late to the party here but isn’t season5 written already? I thought D&B said filming GoT is like filming a 10 hr movie? Did GRRM mean season 6 or maybe explaining why he didn’t write a season 5 episode?

  110. Juhan
    Posted July 29, 2014 at 6:24 am | Permalink

    Spacelike: Watching that 3 min interview I couldn’t be more relieved at what I heard.

    1. His dedication to writing the book is first and foremost, but can’t skip out on existing obligations (completely understandable).
    2. When he writes, the show does not exist.

    Flipping the bird to the callous “fans” and tidbits like the above are why GRRM rocks your faces.

    This.

  111. somuchforoldtown
    Posted July 29, 2014 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

    BlackTalon:
    Am I the only one who is actually HOPING the show will pass the books and have a different story? That way I will get to enjoy the show first and then I will still be able to look forward to the books with their much richer plot and, I guess, even an at least slightly different – and surprising – ending.

    Good point. This is an opportunity for the Sullied to enjoy the surprises, twists, and turns that D&D have in store. Yet we can still sit back and leisurely enjoy GRRM’s masterful works when he puts them out.

  112. Minivill
    Posted July 30, 2014 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    Thorne47,

    Much agreed. I know the feeling of a real or perceived deadline as a writer (political columnist, nothing to this level of creativity) and it’s brutal. Writer’s block is an actual phenomena. Further, given the wait for ADWD, this is actually good timing for GRRM (on par with releases of 1-4). Of course I’m impatient because I love the story, but I empathize with his possible crunch-time anxiety. Perhaps he’s been busier than we think given HBO timelines and working on both 6 & 7 simultaneously and we will have a shortened wait time on Spring!?! Dare we dream? KEEP HOPE ALIVE! :)

  113. Minivill
    Posted July 30, 2014 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    Hal Winslow’s Old Buddy:
    Josh M. Parker,

    “Tolkien never intended to write a sequel to The Hobbit. In fact, for a long while he refused to.” Pretty much every word here is incorrect.The same month that “The Hobbit” came out, Tolkien met with Stanley Unwin and tried to sell him “The Silmarillion” (yes, he DID intend it for publication).He eventually reached agreement to do a new book about hobbits and wrote/submitted some chapters first about Bilbo (which eventually became “The Long Expected Party”) and then some about Bilbo’s son Bingo.He finally figured out where it was going (at least a little) in 1938, but he didn’t finish it until 1949 (by which time his “readers” Christopher and Rayner Unwin were fully grown).He got delayed by work, by family crises, by writer’s block, by writing OTHER things.He promised Unwin it was almost done–”just six more chapters”–in 1942, and again in 1946, before finally delivering a manuscript in late 1949.As for “The Silmarillion,” I can tell you as a child who read LOTR in the 60′s that we were repeatedly “promised” that the book was on the way and would be published any day now.Christopher Tolkien has written about the pressure his father (and subsequently himself) received from readers and publisher.So don’t go spouting revisionist history around here!

    *slow clap* This.

  114. Biter the Gallant
    Posted August 1, 2014 at 1:53 am | Permalink

    Some so called “fans” really act like little Annie Wilkes-imitators here… I totally understand GRRM’s bad feelings about a part of the fanbase. He is not our typewriter, after all. Neither HBO’s. (He even has the right not to finish the series, if he decides that way.)

  115. Josh M. Parker
    Posted August 4, 2014 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    Hal Winslow’s Old Buddy,

    I debated for a while about even replying to this. I admit I was wrong about a couple of things, such as saying he never intended to publish The Silmarillion or that he refused to write a sequel to The Hobbit “for a long while.”

    But the situation is still in no way analogous. For one thing, there is no question that when The Hobbit was published, Tolkien had no intention of writing a sequel to it. GRRM promised us first a trilogy, then a quartet, then a quintet and finally seven books which he seems to be sticking to (maybe).

    The ASOIAF books are not a series of self-contained stories that link to each other; they are one long book. You cannot read any of the later books without reading the books that came before it and have it make sense. The story is still incomplete, and in fact, is currently poised on a cliffhanger, meaning that for three years so far and possibly another four or even five, we are waiting to find out if Jon Snow is in any way alive, Dany is going to be killed by the Dothraki, Tyrion’s fate, Jaime’s fate, etc.

    Meanwhile The Hobbit was written to be enjoyed on its own, and, for that matter, so was The Lord of the Rings. You can, and many have, read LOTR without ever glancing at The Hobbit and it makes perfect sense. Both books tell a complete story within their own bindings that don’t need another book to continue it.

    Tolkien did not write The Hobbit intending for it to be the first in a series. He did not sit down with Stanley Unwin intending to sell him the next Hobbit book, and had to be talked into it. He had no idea what he was going to do with the story even after he sat down to write it.

    Meanwhile, GRRM always intended for this to be a series, and in fact was able to produce three volumes in six years. He also does not live in the same age as Tolkien, where the only way to write was by typewriter (meaning corrections meant far, far more than hitting backspace) and communicating with your editor/publisher meant sending a telegram rather than just picking up the phone or sending an email, and he has not suffered any personal tragedies.

    In short, comparing the two situations still does not make GRRM look any better nor do I feel that it provides him with any excuses in regard to how long he’s taking.

    I’ll say again; GRRM’s contemporaries do not seem to have this problem. Erikson, who arguable has created as thoroughly detailed a world and plot as Martin, and whose books rival Martin’s in size (most are longer) managed to pop out a new book every year (with a couple of exceptions). Brandon Sanderson may have taken four years to get Words of Radiance out, but he had a child in the middle of that, so unlike GRRM he has an excuse (and it was the only time he’s ever made his readers wait that long). And there are tons more examples.

  116. Rabo Karabekian
    Posted August 10, 2014 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    EverydayI’mHodoring,

    This. I haven’t seen anyone express the reality of the situation better. One thing I will add is that the child actors continue to age so that’s a factor in the show wrapping up after 7 seasons. Also, the actors’ contracts signed at the outset can’t be for more than 6 seasons (which is what I’ve heard, but 5 season contracts wouldn’t surprise me). With this massive a cast, renegotiations will be a b****. That’s going to make any seasons after season 6 expensive and fraught with uncertainty. HBO isn’t going to green light three seasons with budgets of $80 million or 100 million each. And a mass recasting for later seasons would be awful and not what the show runners would want. We’re going to get 7 seasons of compressed story, and the books will provide the definitive version of the story. Martin could take 10 years to finish the last two books, and that’s not practical for TV. HBO isn’t doing 10 seasons and a movie because it would please Martin. He needs to wake up to the reality that his book series is being adapted as faithfully as any books have ever been (including Fellowship of the Ring) and that his dilly dallying has led to the show needing to end before the last book comes out, and if he leaks anything to try lessen the impact of the shows last seasons, all that will do will be to cut him out of the publicity tours and hobnobbing with show fans and celebrities that he clearly eats up. He’s gotten as much respect and deference as any author has by Hollywood, and if he bites that hand, he just shows himself to be a petty crank who will be marginalized. I do think him limiting his travel to focus on writing shows he “gets it” finally. He could have chosen to not sell the rights. He did, and since he worked in TV, should have realized the show runners were serious when they said that seven seasons would be the limit. I could see the show going 8, but I doubt it. They are going to cut out a lot of the fluff, the new stuff in ADwD & AFfC, that likely has little bearing on the final outcome, whatever that may be.

  1. […] Martin spoke with Zap2It’s Terri Schwartz about his comments during yesterday’s panel that Robb Stark’s book wife, Jeyne Westerling, would be making an appearance in ‘The Winds of Winter’ prologue. He reveals that she won’t be the POV character, and that he may just break his …read more […]

  2. […] Rory McCann and John Bradley. They talk about navigating Comic-Con amongst the frenzy, and George reiterates that he won’t be writing an episode for Season 5. Sophie comments on her ‘Darth Sansa’ […]


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