Editorial Game of Thrones Jon Snow Lyanna Stark Ned Stark

New Question: Who is Jon Snow’s Father?

Jon Snow baby Official

“The Winds of Winter” featured a major revelation about Jon Snow’s parentage. We’ve long been told that he was the son of Ned Stark and a random woman, but last night we found out (or, in the case of many fans, had it confirmed) that Ned was not the boy’s father. He was the son of Lyanna Stark, Ned’s sister, and another man.

For years, the show struggled to portray the mystery of Jon Snow’s origin onscreen, whereas the books made an undercurrent out of it. Novels can carry along unspoken, mysterious subtexts, hinted at by indirect references and interior monologues. TV does not have these luxuries, and while there was always an air of mystery about Jon’s parentage on Game of Thrones, sometimes the show had trouble directing viewers to the information they need to know.


 

Part of what broke the dam was the show finally working in a version of the tale of the Tourney at Harrenhal during the Year of the False Spring, where Rhaegar Targaryen rode right past his wife, Elia Martell, to crown Ned’s sister Lyanna Stark the Queen of Love and Beauty. Littlefinger finally told this story in Sansa in Season 5’s “Sons of the Harpy,” and while it was much paired down (there was nothing about Lyanna hearing Rhaegar playing his harp and crying, for instance, or about the Knight of The Laughing Tree), it was enough to get people wondering, especially after Sansa finished the story for Littlefinger by saying that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna, and Littlefinger smirked.

It seemed like the proof book readers has been looking for—that the story that Rhaegar had kidnapped and raped Lyanna was just that—a story Robert forced everyone to agree was true, because he could not handle the reality that he never really knew Lyanna, and that she was bored by him and in love with Rhaegar Targaryen.

This is a mystery that some have been wondering about every since the very first book, A Game of Thrones, was published in 1996. Last night, in “The Winds of Winter,” the show finally gave us half of the answer, as Bran (and the audience) followed young Ned Stark up the steps of the Tower of Joy and watched as Lyanna, who lay dying, handed him her newborn son, telling him that “Robert would kill….if he knew…” and those immortal words from Eddard’s memories in his POV chapters published 20 years before: “Promise me, Ned.”

Young Ned Stark, Lyanna, and baby Jon Snow Official

The cut from the baby’s face to Jon Snow’s was merely spelling it out for the people in the back row. Ned Stark had been lying to everyone, including Catelyn, for all those years, to keep Jon Snow—his nephew, and his sister’s only child—alive and safe from Robert.

But why?

Many fans have an answer ready: “Because the child is Rhaegar’s! Because Robert would have killed him, knowing he had Targrayen blood in him! Not to mention that he was the love child of Lyanna and Rhaegar, and proof that Robert’s version of history was bunk!”

Yes well, that’s a very nice theory. But I’ve already seen some extremely stubborn folks on Twitter today claiming that Jon Snow’s “black hair” proves that he’s Robert’s son (remember, that’s how we knew Gendry was Robert’s bastard, back in Season 1!) and that Lyanna did what she did to keep Jon Snow safe…from the Lannisters. (Since Tywin was plotting to have Cersei engaged to Robert by then.)

So although there are many of us who would very much like to believe that last night proved R+L=J, the truth is, it actually only gave us two thirds of the equation. (x)+L=J. Finally, the show has brought fans to ask the other side of the question: If Lyanna is Jon Snow’s mom, and the Starks don’t go in for Targaryen/Lannister-type familiar relations, who is Jon Snow’s father?

208 Comments

  • Can’t believe people are so stubborn. Remember that the mad king would say R’s other kids (by Ellia) looked (smelled) “Donish”. Targeryan’s have been able to keep their traits by marrying each other.

  • Seriously?
    It blatantly Rhaegar.
    That’s the only possible reason “Robert will kill him”.
    This is an answered question.

    A better question would be:
    Does confirming that Jon is the son of a Stark and a Targaryan lend weight to the argument that the Song of Ice and Fire = Jon?
    The Starks are Ice, Targaryen’s represent Fire, Jon is the Song Rhaegar and Lyanna made.

    • Exactly. Half Stark, Half Targaryen. Jon is Ice and Fire combined. The theory that Robert is the father makes no sense whatsoever.

      • agreed, not really sure where people are getting this stuff. Just sort of feels like they are ignoring the facts and reaching.

        • I agree, if you did not read the books shut the he’ll up. This is a book of fiction by GRRM. Why would people ask how did they get there so fast, it’s FICTION.
          I’M SICK OF STUPID PEOPLE ASKING STUPID ?????

          • I agree. If you did not read the books, shut the hell up. This is a book of fiction by GRRM. Why would people ask, “How did they get there so fast?”? It’s fiction! I’M SICK OF STUPID PEOPLE ASKING STUPID [QUESTIONS]!!!!! *

      • Agreed. His hair is black because otherwise people would know…
        Why would the guards at the tower give their lives protecting Roberts son?

          • Exactly! There were 3 kingsguard there in the book and 2 there on the show. Not to mention that one of them was Arthur Dayne, Sword of the Morning and Rhaegar’s most trusted friend. There were only 7 kingsguard total, so having 3 of them guarding the tower, while NONE were with the Queen and Viserys is a massive clue.

      • Indeed. Jon is the “song” of their union. Plus, they’re in the Tower of f–king Joy! Firmly held by the Targaryens until of course Ned and 3 friends take it away.

    • If R+L=J, and Rhaegar was married at the time, that makes Jon a Targaryen bastard.

      Do bastards have claim on the iron throne?

      • Actually a lot of people think Rhaegar wed Lanna polygamously when Elia Martell couldn’t have anymore kids. You can do a search for “Rhaegar married Lyanna” or something and see people’s arguments on it. Very compelling.

        • Of course they Lyanna and Rhaegar had a shotgun wedding. Makes no sense to write this story with all the mystery only to keep Jon a bastard. Rumor is Jon’s real name is Aegon and he’s the Prince who was promised.

      • Even that is questionable. Why would the best soldiers protect a bastard? They would only give their lives if Jon would be a rightful heir to the throne, meaning Raeghar and Lyanna might have married in secret.

        As to the parentage: the central story shifted from Robb to Jon. Ever since it is clear that ‘the song of fire and ice’ has something to do with him. It blatantly reads Targaryan and Stark.
        That could only be about his parentage or his future spouse (Daenerys), depending on whether he is the promised prince or whether his child will be. For time and storytelling reasons its safe to say it is about parentage.

    • I would take the title of the books as “A song of ice (white walkers) and fire (dragons)”. But it doesn’t matter. The fact is that this is the story about the fight of humanity over magic. Wait for the story in citadel next season.

    • Yes exactly. Anyone thinking otherwise is stupid and oblivious to the obvious facts. Not every Damn Targaryen has silver hair. There were many who had other hair. Blond hair colour is recesive genetic trait afterall.

      • Yeah, not sure where ppl are getting this. And, um, the Starks have black hair, so . . . duh. Lyanna = black hair. Arya = black hair, even though she’s only half Stark, and so on. I, too, mourn Robert. He was fun to watch. But, c’mon, people.

      • Many Targaryens had dark hair, including Rhaegar’s own daughter, Rhaenys. She had dark hair like her mother, Elia.

    • Really it’s obvious, the only question are now is he a trueborn? how does he find out the truth? how will he handle it? what will he up to? Will he claim the throne? how can he prove his parentage to others?

      • I think Lyanna wouldn’t be so afraid of jon’s well-being if he’s not a true born. He will either find out the truth from Bran or from the crypt of Winterfell. He’ll be soooooo surprised, obviously. And he’ll give up his claim as the king in the north to Sansa (maybe). But he won’t claim the iron throne because he’s never wanted to be a ruler and give it up to Dany(another maybe). Therefore, I don’t think he will need to prove his parentage to anyone. It’s Jon we’re talking about, he’ll be more focused on killing white walkers rather than seizing the throne for himself.

    • I am often confused, and sometimes amused (or is it the other way around?) as to the origins of #RobertBaratheon’s hatred of all things #Targaryen. Have you ever looked at the Baratheon family tree? Robert is, himself, 1/4 Targaryen thru his paternal grandmother. So, when Robert slew Rhaegar, he in fact killed his own 2nd cousin.

    • Seriously?
      It blatantly Rhaegar.
      That’s the only possible reason “Robert will kill him”.

      I agree it’s ludicrous to think it’s Roberts but really the only reason he would be mad would be if it was Rhaegars kid? I think that if anyone either kidnapped or ran off with the love of his life he would kill any child produced. This is a world where people kill their first born if they prefer the second. Let’s not forget that Robert was all about killing any little Targaryan because they would threaten his claim, forget about something that hurt him inside.

  • The theory that Jon’s father is Robert makes absolutely no sense. Lyanna didnt whisper “the Lannisters will kill him if they know”, rather she whispers that “ROBERT would kill the baby if he knew”. It’s ROBERT that Lyanna is concerned with killing the child. Now if Robert suddenly finds out he has a son living, from the one single woman he loved enough to start a civil war over, then we’re expected to believe that Robert would —-kill him?!? That makes no sense at all. Lyanna was worried about ROBERT finding out about the boy, and killing him if he knows. Knows what exactly? The ONLY things that makes sense in that context is that Robert isnt the father. ESPECIALLY SO if it’s a Targaryen fathered-child. Yes – we dont ABSOLUTELY know now that Rhaegar is Jon’s father, but the theory that says Robert is Jon’s father is nonsense on stilts.

    • I agree, Robert being the father doesn’t make sense! Why have Arthur Dane guarding the tower? He was a Targ supporter and one of Rhaegar’s closest friends and best men. Having the baby be Robert’s just doesn’t make sense! I get that Jon has the Stark look but I think he’s got Rhaegar’s warrior skills…..maybe he doesn’t have the physical features but the Targs were all violet eyes and silver hair…..the dark features of the Starks would genetically take over so maybe we should be looking for something other than physical looks as a way to see his Targ blood?

      • YES! The “Sword of the Morning”, Arthur Dayne, Rhaegar’s best friend and the other Targ King’s guards being there at the tower, guarding Lyanna means that it makes ABSOLUTELY no sense that the father is Robert! On the HBO show “After the Thrones” they did float the idea that the Mad King could be the father…but that really is a very long shot…all the clues lead to Rhaegar.

        • Rheaygra is the true father and the only real reason everyone is trying to say he’s not because everything else was so much a motherfukin mystery so when it finally came out they simply couldn’t handle it because they rather makes shit so complicated because they rather it be so difficult so they could finish making up stupid dumbass theories

      • Rhaegar’s other children, Rhaenys and Aegon both had dark hair like their mother, Elia Martell. So, its not unusual for the union of a Targaryen and another House to result in children with dark hair.

        • Nice work Angelica. There are so many clues pointing AWAY from the Robert theory! I haven’t seen this one yet so great addition.

    • The way you phrased it had me laughing. Yes, why would Robert ever want to kill his son with Lyanna? He even went out of his way to make sure the bastards he had with some random women (like Gendry) lived reasonably well. A baby with Lyanna? He would probably want to raise the child close to him.

      • There’s also the point made in the dunk and egg books that Trags don’t always have white hair. Their gave been plenty with dark or black hair.

      • At that time, Robert already had a young bastard daughter in the Vale, Mya Stone. He doted on her. Lyanna knew about her, so she couldn’t have feared Robert killing his own child.

  • You guys are overthinking this.

    Rhaegar wouldn’t commit his greatest soldier to guard a tower in the middle of nowhere unless it contained his heir. Lyanna and Robert, even if she was inclined to put out before he actually had marriage rights, didn’t really have time in the timeline.

    Jon is Rhaegar’s. The whisper was just milking it a little longer. It’s enough for people who actually watch the show without having read the books and consuming every scrap of info on the Internet (those people DO exist) to know he’s Lyanna’s for right now.

    • Agree!!! People here tend to over thinking. Understandable, since now there is nothing to analyze about but go back to question little unexplained things from episodes.

    • WorfWWorfington, exactly. Some viewers are really overthinking a simple plot into an elaborate piece of puzzle. Take the case of the Arya-Waif theory before. Haha!

      The reason why the whisper was not fully shown or heard in Episode 10 is for viewers to hang on to the next season the way Jon was stabbed to death in Season 5.

      For a year, all people could obsessed about was the confirmation of Jon’s death and possible resurrection. Haha!

      In Season 7, we may be able to finally hear the whole “promise” made by Lyanna to Ned. Bran’s surprising reaction said it all.

      There is no doubt though that Rhaegar is Jon’s father. Lyanna was in love with Rhaegar compared to Robert.

      In one of Ned’s chapters in the books, Lyanna told him that she can never love Robert because of his womanizing ways.

      Ned was always caught in between because Lyanna was his sister, and Robert was his bestfriend.

      Lyanna also was impulsive in her decisions, so there’s a chance that both Rhaegar and Lyanna eloped.

      • “The reason why the whisper was not fully shown or heard in Episode 10 is for viewers to hang on to the next season the way Jon was stabbed to death in Season 5.”

        –Don’t buy it. There was sufficient things going on in episode 610 to have viewers coming back for the next season (i.e Dany’s invasion, Cersei rulling the kingdom etc). That they don’t have to drag the true identity of Jon’s father into next season. Mind you the writing on the show has been sketchy… But I would like to think that GRRM is not that predictable a writer.

        People are bringing up the fact that Lyanna wants Ned to keep Jon paternity a secret evidence that the kid is Rhaegar Well the fact is men like Robert would hate the father of Lynna’s child regardless of the baby daddy. It could never sit with his delicate ego that the woman he loved, really wanted nothing to do with him and ran off with another man. That would tell Robert that he’s not as hot as he thinks he is.

    • Okay, I admit Jon being Rhaeghars son does make sense to most of fans that are show watchers and maybe to a few that are novice book reader. But I still ponder one point. Why would Mr. Martin just blatantly hand us the facts surrounding Jon’s conception. Martin never does what would be expected, he loves to cloak everything in his stories with mystery and misdirection, so his fans can be shocked and surprised. This reveal is to easy and convenient in my opinion. I will not accept the R. Targaryen + L. Stark reveal as a confirmation, until I see it in black and white on the pages of one of GRRM upcoming books.

  • The Robert theory doesn’t make any sense. She clearly says, “If Robert finds out he’ll” and then it gets garbled, but it sounds like “kill him,” and then “you know he will.” You can turn on the captions; she clearly says “he.” Not “they,” as in the Lannisters in general. Lyanna has also given birth and been in a fever for probably days, so how the heck would she know about Tywin’s political machinations? Whereas she would definitely know to be wary of Robert.

    The hair thing is stupid for the same reason the Meera/Jon twin theory is stupid: You can’t use show looks to justify book plots. Jon in the books has Stark brown hair and gray eyes, not Baratheon black hair and blue eyes. Harington’s hair is probably darker than Jon’s is meant to be, but that isn’t proof of a book plot point.

    • Plus in the books they say many times that Arya looks like Lyanna & then follow that with the fact that Jon looks the most like his sister Arya.

  • What I want to know is who was that broad with lyanna and what does she know, is she still alive, and where is she now

    • Some nursemaid, has to have been loyal to the Targaryans, so probably didn’t survive the civil war.

      • Which would make the story arya is told from brotherhood (ned) about being Jon’s milk brother partially true!

      • That works. Ned is honorable and decent to a fault. He wouldn’t get the woman killed if he could avoid it, so lying about her as the mother of his bastard is the best way to ensure her survival and safety.

      • Yup, I’m fairly certain I heard Young Ned refer to the nurse maid as Wylla and asked her to bring Lyanna some water.

  • Lyanna whispering the name, was to protect him. She didn’t want others in the room to hear his name. She must have trusted those in the room, because they could have easily told Robert that The baby was with Ned.

  • Although I firmly believe Rhaegar is the baby daddy, since we’re debating possible baby daddies, there is one more option to consider: Ser Arthur Dayne.

    I only say this because the show seems to be making a big point this season to compare Ser Arthur to Jon, especially with Ramsey saying in 609 that he’d heard Jon was the “greatest swordsman who ever walked,” similar to how Ser Arthur was always described. And they did focus on Dawn at the foot of Lyanna’s bed in 610.

    Is it a coincidence? A red herring? Or is this the 3rd thing that blew DB & DW’s minds? It would be just like GRRM to set up something and then say, “ha, ha. Fooled you!” :)

    • What I dont get is why Dayne and 2 other great swordsmen gave their lives for Jon, while the war was about to be lost and it was Ned not Robert at the tower of joy. One would think Lyanna would have told to fight Robert but to let Ned in if only one of them would come for a visit.

      • Really??? Ya don’t get it??? If your lord or prince commands you to do something, will you not obey? Hell in 6×3 Dayne even said, “Our prince wanted us here”… Just get over it….

        • Thats not the point, Rhaegar wouldn’t have commanded them using the same logic.

          It might make sense though if Arthur really didn’t want to kill Ned, but only his servants. But we will never know. The ink is already dry.

      • if you rewatch the tower of joy scene, you will notice that Dayne has many opportunities to kill Ned but DOES NOT. he could have just been purposefully killing all of Neds minions as he did not know who he could trust besides Ned with the secret. just a thought.

        • I agree. I think both sides wanted to avoid bloodshed. Targs were doing their duty, and had Ned not bothered them, they would have kept on protecting that child – Lyanna. Ned’s insistence on seeing his sister got them all killed.

  • Some people just wanna argue. It’s clear that Rhaegar is the father, but they’re playing coy to set up another reveal for Jon next season, possibly from Howland Reed who was only other person from Ned’s party who survived.

    • IE… the only person to see Ned go into the tower and come out with a baby 10 minutes later…. Unless Ned really sold the explanation to Reed :)

      “Dude, where’d you get the baby?”
      “Oh… umm.. well there was this chick up there, I knocked her up and this is the baby.”
      “All in 10 minutes?”
      “I got mad skills Yo.”

      • Ned would have to sell it as “I knocked up a lady in there several months ago when we came through the area, her newborn kid is obviously a Stark, so here we are”.

  • My guess is that the only reason the show is still teasing out the Rhaegar part of the Jon Snow parentage equation is because that is probably another part of the reveal that will happen next season. It’s one thing to know that Rhaegar is Jon Snow’s father, but, the critical thing to understand is the importance of Rhaegar being the father of Jon. And it’s not just that Rhaegar is a Targaryen who was the heir to the Iron Throne, which is a pretty big issue in and of itself, especially if Rhaegar secretly married Lyanna. But also, in terms of the survival of Westeros, the other part of the equation is the prophecy which we believe Rhaegar based his decisions. All in due time, but it wasn’t going to be completely spelled out in this episode.

    • I guess polygamy is accepted and legal in Westeros.

      Aegon the conquerer did marry both his sisters.

      • Even if it isn’t legal for other people, the Targ’s don’t accept any real limits on themselves. Targs get to do sibling incest, and Targs get to do polygamy.

        New House Targ words: “It’s good to be the King”

        • Which leads back to the rumour that Jaime and Cercei are actually bastard Targs. The incest, the burnings, etc

  • Laughable how blatantly obvious it is that Rhaegar is the father. There’s no need for an entire article questioning that.

      • I read AWOIAF and Dunk and Egg novellas.
        There was Daemon Blackifre II who has black hair and Daeron the drunk, son of Maekar, with brown hair.
        By the way: who said that a son has to inherit the father’s hair and not the mother’s ones?

        As always i apologies if my english contains some mistake.

      • ummmmmmm Robert Baratheon grandmother was a Targ…… Robert silver hair is a dead giveaway…… rofl D&D do this to you nerds on purpose….

  • I think one of the great what-ifs of the series would be, “What if Ned trusted Catelyn with the information?”

    It is so crucial to Jon’s story that Catelyn was such a hateful bitch, that it is hard to imagine what his life would have been like if he had a real mother figure in his life. Maybe that is the twist, that Dany will be that figure to him.

    • He doesn’t really need a mother-figure at this point… and Dany is slightly younger then him!

    • Catelyn probably would have softened her attitude towards Jon if she knew the truth. Ned probably didn’t tell her because he wanted for as few people as possible to know the truth. I don’t know that Catelyn was necessarily a hateful bitch, her attitude towards Jon was pretty typical. She never tried harm him and didn’t try to turn her children against him. I don’t think Jon really needs a mother figure. Imagine if Cersei was his stepmother, now that would be a hateful bitch.

      • On the show she admitted to Robb’s fiancé’ she ‘prayed to the gods “Take him away, make him die” referring to a then Baby Jon.
        And in the Book “A Game of Thrones” Catelyn sits by Bran’s bedside and tells Jon it should have been him instead. Not to mention all the times she openly calls him “Bastard” in front of her children, refusing to call him by name.
        Catelyn was a spiteful hateful bitch.

        • No chance for Catelyn’s redemption now that LSH has been cut from the show. Had we seen LSH in the show, she could have given Jon the kiss of life and Catelyn would have kept the promise to the gods she made so long ago.

  • Bran will still need eye witness account to prove this when he finally sees Jon. Howland Reed is the only living person who can give proof. Littlefinger will have a stroke when he finds out. Hopefully Jon will have shed his naïveté by then and be prepared. Time for Howland to make an appearance! That said, it was a cathartic experience! The whole episode was so worth the wait! Brilliant!

    • I’m wondering if Mel’s magic has made Jon almost impossible to kill. Jon being randomly missed by arrows and being buried alive during the battle might suggest this. If so a nice dose of dragon fire might also be used to indicate his heritage.

      • You know I believe that something was going on with Jon on the horse. The horse getting hit many times then Jon just kinda walks off limping because the horse lands on his leg. It was so smooth how as Jon as walking towards Ramseis his men just came around him. The arrows seem to just barely miss Jon, then he was being sufficated under all those bodies and he didn’t die. I watched it three times in a row because I wanted to figure it out. Good job observing.

  • What if Lyanna was hiding the truth (that Jon is Robert’s son) even from Ned as a way of protecting the baby from the Lannisters? Because as someone told here in the comments, Robert surely would have his son alongside him and that would be a threat to the Lannisters. Lyanna also knew that Ned was very close to Robert and, being the most straightforward person on Earth, he would have trouble hiding the truth from his old friend, thus it would be better if he didn’t know that.

    Jon being the son of Robert may explain Melisandre’s confusion as to who is the rightful king (maybe she saw a Baratheon in the fire, but supported the wrong one); would explain why she could ressurect Jon (Shireen’s sacrifice was not in vain); would explain why Littlefinger is so eager to make Sansa queen of the North, and not Jon – probably he is the one who knows the truth, as he was so close to and in love with Lyanna. Littlefinger knows that Jon Snow is actually a Baratheon, thus the rightful King, which would really interfere on his plans for the Iron Throne (you didn’t believe that those sweet words for Sansa were out of love, did you? He’s poisoning her against her brother. Why?). Maybe the Song of Ice and Fire is a Kingdom made out of a possible marriage between Jon (ice) and Dany (fire). If Jon is Robert’s son, both of them could claim the throne and a marriage would solve the problem as a peaceful solution…

    After all, Game of Thrones is all about surprising people, right?

    • Not possible. Lyanna was with Rhaegar for a good year or longer. The timing of Jon’s birth means it can’t be Robert.

    • I will be devils advocate and say if Jon is Roberts son it’s from Pig Robert raping her and Rhaegar taking her to safety from him. She didnt love Robert.

    • What if Lyanna was hiding the truth (that Jon is Robert’s son) even from Ned as a way of protecting the baby from the Lannisters?

      That would be very third-rate storytelling in consideration of the fact that GRRM pretty much beat the point of Jon’s parentage to death in the books for anyone who was paying attention.

      We’re either told or it’s implied that Ned Stark is the most honorable man in Westeros about a gazillion times, and this is juxtaposed against other characters visiting whorehouses (Theon, Tyrion).

      And meanwhile we’re also repeatedly told:

      Sansa looks like her mother.
      Arya looks like Lyanna.
      Jon looks like Arya.
      Rhaegar gave Lyanna the rose at the Harrenhall tourney, and she was happy.
      Rhaegar “kidnapped” Lyanna.
      Lyanna was gone for months.
      Lyanna was protected by the kingsguard.
      Ned’s deathbed promise to Lyanna.
      Ned’s ruminations about speaking with Jon about his mother.

      It’s rinse-wash-repeat multiple times with the above. For them to pull a “psyche” move would be amateurish.

      And now on the show we’ve seen what everyone expected: Lyanna died during childbirth.

    • How would Lyanna have known that Robert would win the war, become king, marry a Lannister and the Lannisters would slaughter his bastards? She must be some crazy psychic.

    • I must say, this is an interesting notion you have. Seeing as GRRM’s kernel for aSoIaF is that of the War of the Roses. Of course as history explains to us, the War of the Roses ended when Henry Tudor married Elizabeth York. Could Jon Snow be GRRM’s Henry Tudor and Daenerys be Elizabeth York? We know now that the North still has intentions of being an independent Kingdom and that Daenerys wants to keep the Seven Kingdoms intact. A Jon and Dany marriage would bring the North back into the fold (what Dany wants) and end the war once and for all (what Jon wants).

  • This isn’t even a question anymore. There is no one else that makes sense, definitely not Robert, particularly if you consider the timeframe involved:

    1) Rhaegar “kidnaps” Lyanna.
    2) Brandon goes to KL and then is followed by Rickard Stark. They are executed. Figure all of this traveling probably takes a couple of months.
    3) Jon Arryn refuses to turn over Ned and Robert. Civil war starts.
    4) Civil War is said to last about a year.

    If you take all of these events, and how long they would take, into consideration then Rhaegar is the only logical father. Robert is an impossibility due to the time Lyanna was with Rhaegar. The only other possibility would have been one of the Kingsguard, but that seems extremely unlikely.

    Unless gestation terms are a lot different in their world, Phaegar is the only father than even remotely makes sense.

    • You make good points, War Beagle. Everything you described would have taken 14-16 moths minimum by my estimation… or maybe 2 episodes with show!jetpacks.

      Sorry couldn’t resist. I am sure it’s Ray-ray or someone in his troop. No way it could be Robert. And not to be a book snob (I freakin LOVE both the books and the show), in the books, absolutely no way it could be Robert. I don’t think that would be a deviation D&D would make… kind of an important detail.

  • If you turn the volume up you can hear she says “his name is…” then it drops out completely so the only thing we don’t know is what name Lyanna and Rhaegar named the baby; but she says something with two syllables so it’ll be something like Aemon or Aegon; Eddard obviously named him Jon after Jon Arryn.. There really is no mystery.

    • Seemed to me like the last syllable of the name was “rys”, but maybe 3 syllables? with book!(f)Aegon missing from the show, Ageon would be logical, but Targs also seem to like the *rys names (Aerys, Daenerys, Jahaerys, etc). If the “rys” part is valid (not sure I wasn’t just hearing things), then I don’t see Ray or Lyanna wanting to name the boy after Aerys. Daenerys is a female name. Maybe Jahaerys. Hell, maybe it was Jonaerys. We are truly in new territory for all of us now.

  • Some fans have arrived late to the Game of Thrones party. They don’t realize that some of this stuff has been analyzed backwards and forwards for 20 years or so. On top of that, some fans only watch the TV series and haven’t read the books, and so there are things that may seem fairly straightforward to some of us while others are still trying to grasp the overall scope of the story along with all the details.

    • Fair enough… but, when people grasp at ridiculous straws even though the truth was laid out as plain as can be last night with out young Ned breaking the 4th wall and straight telling the audience…

    • @ King Crow,

      It seemed like Lyanna said , ” his name is Aerios. It seemed like she started with A and ended with an S. I know there was an Aerio Targaryen who drank wildfire, I think. Maybe they just added an S. (Aerios)

  • She whispered his name is Aegon to Ned before she says that Robert would kill him if he found out… Sound like her and rhaegar had picked names for their son.. He’s definitely a targaryen!!

  • She whispers him “His name is…” then we don’t know. It’s obvious that Rhaegar is the father.

  • One thing is certain: Jon is not the son of Robert.

    Because why Robert would kill if he knew it (as Lyanna said), if Jon was his son ? Why Ned would need to protect Jon from Robert, if Robert was the father of Jon?
    Robert did not want to kill his son, especially if it was the son he had with his beloved Lyanna!

    No, Jon is the son of Rhaegar, and that’s why he had to be protected from Robert because he has the Targaryen blood, and he is living proof that his beloved Lyanna loved another man.

  • A waste of a read. People are reaching just to make an article. Jon is not Roberts son. The R + L=J theory was proven. Let us revel in that moment without us reading ridiculous theories as this. People are grasping. Jesus.

  • My guess is we’ll see some of Rhaegar next season, to set up that portion of the reveal. Book readers know the importance of Rhaegar, but many casual fans of the show don’t. I was speaking with a few co-workers about the scene this morning, and when I said Rhaegar Targaryen was the father, one of them said “that’s the guy who got gold poured on his head, right?”

    • Admittedly, it took me 3 seasons to really get a grasp on all the characters, so I can see this.

      Dang… its real easy to get elitist on people who know less then you about a fictional story, when real life might get in the way.

      That being said…
      9+ months before season 7 comes out.
      The final act (in 2 seasons) is about to start.
      Get on HBO and watch the first 6 seasons (and consult the net as need-be) before next April.

      If you don’t have 2 hours a week (for the next 30 weeks) to devout to watching the whole show, you need to either reconsider your life or stop posting that you don’t understand things about the show.

  • Definitely Rhegar’s child, but I always get confused when people say the 3 kingsguard were at TOJ to protect the heir to the iron throne. Wasn’t the heir to the throne his son Aegon whom he had with Elia Martell before running away w/ Lyanna…Jon Still his heir yes but wasn’t Aegon more important.?

    • Who knows what Rhaegar’s intentions were when he gave them that order.

      Maybe Lyanna was the love of his life and he wanted their child to be heir… Targaryans have a history of plural marriage afterall.
      Maybe he married Lyanna in secret and Jon isn’t even reall y illegitimate!!!

    • By the time Ned arrives at the TOJ the sack of King’s Landing had already happened, so Jon was (bastard or trueborn) the last living son of the crown’s heir. And for why Rhaegar gave more importance to his son with Lyanna than those he had with Elia, I think he was quite aware of the prophecies surrounding his family and he believed them, so maybe he knew something we still don’t know and eventually will be revealed in that matter.

  • The Starks have never crossed with the Targaryens, so we have no precedent for which features would dominate. Jon’s features tell us nothing. I’d like for the show to clear up the Rhaegar & Lyanna marriage question quickly though.
    One thing’s for certain, bastard or no, the White Wolf is the new King In The North!!!!!!

  • Aegon was dead for months by that point. Plus, rhaegar thought this son would be the prince that was promised and therefore more important to protect

    • Ned asks Dayne why he wasn’t at the trident to protect Rhaeger and Dayne responds with he wanted me here. Rhaeger told them to stay behind to protect , then he went to fight And ultimately die. After that sack of kings landing happens etc. so Rhaeger had the 3 kingsguard stay behind while Aegon was still alive and he sent a raven to Maester Aemon at the wall stating he thought Aegon was the Prince that was promised. So maybe he wanted Lyanna and his children to rule Westros.

  • For God’s sake, it is Rhaegar the father.
    1) RHAEGAR took off with Lyanna for a year
    2) RHAEGAR left the kingsguard protecting something inside that tower (lyanna and the baby)
    3) RHAEGAR gathered his army and went to the trident to fight robert
    4) Lyanna was isolated in that tower for a year, the only people she had contact with was her servants, Rhaegar and maybe the kingsguards.
    5) The kingsguards were the only men around Lyanna, and they were probably placed there only after she got pregnant.
    6) RHAEGAR actually died for Lyanna

    The real question is if they got married or not, which I’m starting to think they did.

    PS: Some lip-readers are saying that the child’s name she whispered to Ned was something between aerys or aemon, definitely started with an “A”. So if this is true and she wanted to give the child a targaryen name, that proves she did love the father and ran off with him willingly.

  • There is only one possible explanation as to why the Kingsguard were there guarding the baby instead of with Viserys.

    Because Rhaeghar is the father and he married Lyanna before riding off to the Trident. There are no other option to explain three of the Kingsguard, including Sergio Arthur Dayne and the Lord Commander there.

    That’s it; that’s all.

  • lol please take off the tinfoil with the Arthur Dayne – Robert Baratheon arguments, only credible (yet highly unlikely) alternative perpetrator I’ve heard is that Jon is the product of rape by the Mad King, since all of his children’s births were complicated, though that’s complicated by the fact that so were Rhaegar’s first two children.

    First of all, with respect to Robert, to say that she was saying protect Jon from the Lannisters is directly contrary to her actual words, “Robert would kill him” and the actual timeline, where the Lannisters just sacked King’s Landing and proclaimed Robert the King. They had no motivation to kill Robert’s bastards until just before Ned’s death 16 years later, and Robert wasn’t even betrothed to Cersei by that point, hoping to still recover Lyanna. The only inference is that she wanted to protect him from Robert, because he had a direct claim to the throne and would be the child of Robert’s most hated enemy.

    Second, with respect to Arthur Dayne, having his child there would not justify his staying behind to protect Jon, that would be desertion. Kingsguards take a vow of celibacy and are sworn to protect the king and his issue at all times, if he stayed behind to protect the castle, that would be breaking both of those vows, and by all accounts Dayne was the most chivalrous, and took his vows seriously. Finally, in response to Ned’s question as to why he wasn’t on the Trident, Dayne responded, “our prince wanted us here,” which leads to the inference that they were there at his direction, to protect his love and heir while he lead the war against the rebellion.

    Finally, there are tons of Targaryens with black hair, most notably Baelor Breakspear, and Rhaegar’s eyes were said to be a dark indigo, almost black, which would explain why Jon’s eyes are darker than both normal Targaryen’s (violet) and Stark’s (grey). Please take off the tinfoil, and enjoy the reveal :)

    • also personal belief, after the complicated birth of Rhaegar’s second child by Elia Martell, Elia was said to be barren. His pursuit of Lyanna may have been motivated by his prophetic belief that the “dragon” must have three heads, and therefore he would need a second son from Aerys’s line to complete the prophecy, along with himself, as shown by Dany’s vision. (doesn’t seem he accounted for girls, to be a head, but he obviously was wrong).

  • Why haven’t they shown Howland Reed? Was he at Winterfell when all the Northern Lords were declaring for Jon, the White Wolf? Anyway, he needs to clear this up next season as IT IS Jon Targeryan Stark! I think hom and Daney will hook up as Targeryans do… Jon Ice + Daney Fire = iron Throne and the end of the White Walkers!

    • Its not Dany = Fire and Jon = Ice.

      It is literally “Jon” IS The Song of Ice (Lyanna Stark) and Fire (Rhaegar Targaryen).

  • Even if Jon (as is now confirmed) is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen….
    And even if Rhaegar and Lyanna could have been secretly married or not…

    Robert won the throne through right of conquest…

    Targaryens may have a historical claim, but it will have to be won by conquest to legally take it from Cersei now.

  • If this is a “show” question then I guess it’s a legitimate question, but if it’s a book question then the Lannisters wouldn’t be an issue because the marriage between Robert and Cersei wasn’t arranged till after the rebellion was over.

  • I am always amazed at how fucking stupid people can actually be,,,,
    How long before the Tower of Joy scene was the Tournament at Harrenhall???
    MORE THAN A YEAR…
    I seriously doubt Roberts’ sperm were swimming around for months waiting to inseminate Lyanna so her baby would be born long after Robert could possibly be the father…
    yes the seed is strong, but IT ISN’T THAT STRONG.

  • She whispered, “ashy larry”. You can go back to season 2 and see the shadow of a man in the laundry room

  • Rhaegar knew Jon (Baratheon) would save Westeros from the Whitewalkers — that is why he had his best protecting Lyanna.

  • Bllsht!!!

    R + L = J. That’s the true thing. But I’ll tell you one more thing:

    Now that Bran knows it, how he will convince Jon of that? or Sansa? Even more, if they believe in Bran’s visions, or suppose that Bran could “connect them” and make them see it by themselves, how will they convince everybody in The North and Westeros?

    Wylla’s testimony or Bran’s or any other person means really nothing. There’s no physical proof. Or there is?

    The only thing that could set the things clear for everybody to recognize Jon as a true heir or at least not a bastard is a marriage certificate. And I have a key character for you:

    Samwell Tarly.

    He will find that certificate at the Citadel. I’m pretty sure that Rhaegar wouldn’t let his son to be a bastard, and he had very strong reasons to protect his heir after all the complot against the Mad King and all the Targaryens.

    So, he and Lyanna, who were truly in love, got married in secret to give their son a claim to the throne when possible. Rhaegar didn’t thought he was going to die, nor Lyanna thought of that, but when she knew that Robert killed him he asked Ned to protect Jon as his bastard. But that marriage certificate was long gone to the Citadel, where every Westeros document is archived.

    There’s not any other reason why Sam is so important at this level of the story. Don’t you think?

    • Now that Bran knows it, how he will convince Jon of that? or Sansa? Even more, if they believe in Bran’s visions, or suppose that Bran could “connect them” and make them see it by themselves, how will they convince everybody in The North and Westeros?

      Bran will master his powers and through touch be able to bring people with him as observers. And they don’t need to convince everyone — only a few people who really matter. Danerys will probably already have a favorable impression of Jon because of his friendship with Tyrion. Who else do you really need to convince?

    • Great point! Every scene in the finale had importance, and Sam going into that amazing Citadel library couldn’t just be about his love of learning. He’s going to discover something crucial there. He already knows about the effectiveness of Valyrian steel and dragon glass against white walkers. Also, did you notice the chandeliers seemed to be from the opening credits with the carved lion, stag, direwolf, and dragon?

  • It’s fantasy guys — who said a year is 365 calendar days — or that gestation is 9 earth calendar months? Jeesh! Think outside the box a bit.

  • Plus — it’s just good story telling: Rhaegar is a very minor role player — has not made an appearance at all in the show (not even flashbacks).

  • There is a deeper reason why Rhaegar was protecting her, folks, and news flash — it ain’t because he impregnated her.

  • In reality, Season 7 Episode 1 Dany finds someone rowing a boat in the middle of the ocean. The fella has black hair and when asked his name he says, “no one”. Varys and this, “no one” are never in the same scene together…. Ready Set GO tinfoil nerds….

  • Why is this even a question? Do u not remember Targaryan soldiers guarding the tower? People are so dumb

  • This show is about 2 main characters, Varys and Little Finger. It’s obvious, Little Finger is Jon’s father.

    • “His name is.., then It looked to me that she said “???? Targarian” And that’s when Bran’s eyes went O_O. I’m not a good lip reader, but that’s what it looked like t me. Anyone else get a better read on that?

  • I read a compelling arguament t’other day that WUN WUN was Jon’s father! Can you believe that? Honestly, look it up! The nonsense some people come up with is amazing! And the nonsense some folk are willing to believe is amazing too. (*INSERT REALLY BIG WINKING EMOTICON*)

  • did anyone notice , in episode 6 , in first minutes i think 2:45 or 2:46 in bran visions we saw wild fire explosion in the basement , exactly like this explosion happened in final episode in basement too , this scene was repeated , now there is 2 theory , first its got mistake and i doubt that and second bran saw something from future , if he can see the future it change a lot of things :)

  • What is going on with you guys? First, Varys traveling “quickly” and now this? It is obviously Rhaegar since that’s the reason Ned has been lying about Jon to keep him safe from Robert.

  • When Jon, Dany, and the imp fly in on dragons and burn the night King to a crisp questions of his parentage will be laid to rest.

  • Obviously it’s Rhaegar. Who else would it be? Why would Lyanna say that Robert will kill him if he finds out? It’s too obvious.

  • No question that Rhaegar is the father. The only thing that i wonder is what more Lyanna whispered?

  • Some random thought. just guess… jon can be Aegon, son of Elia Martell and Rhaegar Targaryen, making him true heir to iron throne. what could have happen is that, lynna child may have swap with Elia Martell son by kingsguard or Rhaegar . That can explain why kingsgaurd were protecting true heir at TOJ. as dornish man has with dark eyes, dark hair in ringlets. just guessing some twist.

  • Lyanna has black hair. Her son has black hair. Lots of people have black hair and aren’t Robert’s kids. It’s not like black is an odd hair color. Jon clearly has more Stark genes than Targaryen.

  • This article makes zero sense. Of course it’s Rhaegar. Robert was out to kill every Targ when he started his war. Why would the Lannisters kill the baby because he had black hair?
    1. Cersei only ordered black haired bastards of Robert killed after Robert died to protect her children’s claim to the throne. So why would Lyanna be worried about that?
    and
    2. You can clearly hear Lyanna asking Ned to protect Jon from Robert. Not from the Lannisters.

    The supermarket must be all out of tinfoil right now…

  • It’s Rhaegar. The audio dip was probably just for dramatic purposes so they can drag the story out a little longer.

  • Some people need everything spelled out for them.
    There were even geniuses on asoiaf.westeros claiming Lyanna was a red herring and not Jon’s real mother.
    Unless D&D show the conception this will me a bone of contention for a while.

  • there is a trending rumor that she whispered “…deez nuts…” and that’s why Ned changed his name to Jon.

  • Rhaegar hid Lyanna in the tower to protect Robert’s baby? Why the hell would Robert want to kill his own baby? Pfft.

  • I really, really wish people would stop saying Jon and Dany are going to get together. NOT GONNA HAPPEN PEOPLE!! That theory is complete fuckery! If you think this has a happy ending, you weren’t paying attention!

  • I’m gonna kill the next person who says Jon and Dany are going to get together. That is complete fuckery!

  • And Rhaegar had the prophecy that his son will be prince that was promised. In Daenerys vision in House of undying he said “There must be one more” – 1 more son, the chosen one, and that is Jon. If he is Robert son, Robert would protect his always and 4ever cos he loved her, and Lanisters wouldn’t dare to kill him. They didn’t killed others Robert bastards, Joffrey did – cos he was crazy. Lyanna couldn’t know that cos Joffrey were not even in plan…

    • Which is why I think Lyanna whispered, “His name is Azor Ahai.” I need to watch it again, but I watched it a couple times with the volume up already, and I think that’s what she starts to say before they cut to Bran.

  • If I remember correctly Robert’s rebellion started after Lyanna was kidnapped and took around two years until the battle of the Trident which happened just before the Tower of Joy scene. As Robert would not have access to Lyanna for 2 years he can not be the father :-)

  • THE SHOW DID NOT MAKE IT CLEAR THAT JON IS Reaghar’s son. Why else would that have that part of the whisper inaudible..his name is…”whisper”. The only thing they confirmed was that Lyanna had a baby. Thats it. Everything else is assumption and inference. This is not going to be a clear as everyone thinks it is.

  • As I indicated earlier in a reply, I sometimes wonder as to the nature of Robert Baratheon’s hatred of House Targaryen. Consider family history. Orys Baratheon, founder of House Baratheon, was rumored to be the half brother of Aegon I Targaryen. In the early days of the Conquest, there were no two Houses closer than the Targaryens and the Baratheons.

    When Aegon invaded Dorne, Orys led the ground forces. That campaign, of course, didn’t end well. Orys and several other lords were captured by Dorne in a daring night raid. They were ransomed, but at the cost of losing their right hands. In addition, Princess Rhaenys, Aegon’s sister-wife, and her dragon, Meraxes, were both killed.

    Perhaps the Baratheon-Targaryen relation changed in the civil war known as the Dance of the Dragons. Viserys I had no sisters to marry, as per Targaryen tradition, so he married an Arryn from the Vale, and his daughter was Rhaenyra. When his first wife died, Viserys married a Hightower, and had two sons–one being Aegon II–and a daughter.

    When Viserys died, the Targaryen tradition was for the eldest child–Rhaenyra–to take the crown, but Westerosi tradition was for the eldest male. Boremund Baratheon, the head of the House, supported Rhaenyra, while his son, Borros, supported Aegon.

    The next big conflict was the Blackfyre Rebellion. In this, the Baratheons supported Daeron Targaryen, the legitimate heir of Aegon IV.

    The daughter of Lyonel Baratheon was betrothed to Prince Duncan Targaryen, son of Aegon V. Duncan, however, married a common girl (for love) and then renounced his claim to the throne. This enraged Lyonel, who renounced his allegiance to House Targaryen and the Iron Throne, and declared himself the Storm King. The matter was settled when Lyonel was defeated in single combat by Ser Duncan the Tall, Captain of the Kingsguard. Peace was brought about when Aegon’s daughter, Rhaelle, was betrothed to Lyonel’s heir, Ormund. Ormund’s son, Steffon, had the three sons you all know: Robert, Stannis, and Renly.

    When Robert rebelled against Aerys II–Aerys the Mad King–he used his link to Aegon V thru his grandmother, Rhaelle, as his claim to the Iron Throne. When he slew Prince Rhaegar, he killed his own 2nd cousin.

    So, back to my original question: why did Robert hate the Targaryens so much, even though he was 1/4 Targaryen?

    One other question, that I’m not sure has been addressed either by Mr Martin or the HBO series: what happened to the descendants of Duncan Targaryen and his wife, Jenny of Oldstones? Though Duncan renounced his claim to the Throne, his children are still Targaryen. Did they change their name, to escape the wrath of Robert?

  • to quote one of my favorite movies……..
    Mr. ANYONE WHO THINKS ROBERT IS THE FATHER, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

    im sorry but literally anyone who says Robert is the father based solely on hair needs to be shot and or slapped , how can someone who hasn’t seen lyanna in almost 2 years GET HER WITH CHILD, second we know rhaegar “kidnapped” lyanna and clearly died on the trident AGAINST ROBERT how then pray tell would he be able to travel all the way to DORNE, bypass 3 of the greatest knights ever and still make it back up north to continue the rebellion, the fact I have to even come up with these reasons blows my mind, its like telling someone 1+1 equals 2 and not 3, like seriously shame of this site for fanning the flames of crazy, clearly dumb people……..give me one ONEEEEE piece of evidence to back of this dumbass theory

  • What if the dragons have an unexpected reaction to Jon when meeting him for the first time and this somehow proves his Targaryen heritage?

  • Basic rule of the show: if ya got light colored hair, your traits are NOT dominant. It is known! The only real misstep is the fact that his hair is so dark while Lyanna’s hair is more lighter brown.

  • next season, they’ll tease it out…
    there will be another vision for Bran, where Ned chats to Howland…
    he will hear clearly then that it is Rhaegar who is dad

  • Jon’s dad is blatantly Rhaegar. Its blatantly clear in the books. And the show has been dropping hints about Rhaegar’s past for a couple season’s now, having scenes discuss the Torney of Harrenhall, and Ser Barristan discussing how he was actually a gentle soul beloved by everyone. I think this was to show hes not a raping psycho like hes made out to be by Robert. IMO the show didn’t have Lyanna state “Rhaegar is the father” b/c it would potentially confuse casual show viewers. This “Robert is his dad” theory is just stupid.

  • Seriously? black hair, that is your reason for him not being Targaryen?
    have you seen his mother?
    We all know how dominant genes work. C’mon FFS.

  • I don’t think it’s ridiculous at all to question who his father is. Obviously R + L = J has been a popular theory for a long time and there certainly were (even more so now) facts to support it, but it’s still not confirmed. My takeaway from the scene are:
    1- J: Jon Snow is definitely supposed to be shown as being the baby due to the cut. I don’t think there is any disputing that.
    2-L: Lyanna is 99.9% the mother. This isn’t the walking dead, I don’t see any sort of trickery coming where she’s dying of an unrelated injury and this is a baby that was previously born.
    3- R: Rhaegar is the father. This is where things get interesting. The reaction I think we are supposed to have is what most commenters seem to think “of course he’s the father, it proves R+L=J”. If without the missing audio we can assume this is the right answer, then why have the missing audio? I feel like the only thing that could be said would be something that actually disproves the equation rather than confirms it.

    • http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/news/a46284/hbo-confirms-jon-snow-father/

      you were saying? and yes it entirely ridiculous, stupid (im not saying you personally are stupid) if you want to be completely honest to question who his father is there is literally ZERO evidence that anyone else other than Rhaegar is the father , as I’ve said multiple times I will entertain any theories that allow for LOGICAL arguments as to his true parentage to develop. do you literally want them to look at the camera and say THIS IS RHAEGARS SON , and then wink at the camera I mean I still cannot believe that anyone ANYONE questions who his father is even AFTER its confirmed VISUALLY…..anyway R+L+J forever

      • Yes I will still 100% question it until I see it actually confirmed. How is it illogical to say we don’t know for sure who it is based on the show? Don’t throw around things as being confirmed when they are not. I’m a book reader but obviously they’ve said the book and the show are separate entities so for sake of argument use that. We know that:
        Rhaegar ran off with Lyana, the circumstances of it are unknown to the viewers.
        Rhaegar left 2 members of his Kingsguard to protect her, to his own detriment.
        Lyanna died in childbirth.
        Before dying, she makes Ned promise to keep her child safe from Robert, who would surely kill him
        That baby is Jon Snow.
        Could you show me where I missed any sort of confirmation that R is the dad? All we know is that it’s Lyanna’s son, either she, Jon, or both were very important to Rhaegar, and that Robert would kill the child if he found out. Based on the facts of the show tell me how Aerys might not be the father, maybe it was Dayne, maybe Lyanna got seduced by a minstrel one night in a tavern. The point is very clear that there is still info we aren’t being given and it’s intentional. I choose to completely ignore that chart just like I ignore Martin saying cold hands isn’t Benjen and Kit Harrington talking about how for reals dead he was.

        • Bingo…It is not as simple as the show runners and HBO are making it seem, because the Book Writer (the man that weaves the tapestry of the story) hasn’t confirmed it in his books yet.

          I believe it will be a more complicated story behind Jon’s parentage because after knowing for 20 years how George RR Martin twists his characters plot lines in his books, I suspect there will be more questions before we finally know the truth he wants us to know. Can’t wait to read his next ASOIAF Books. For me the show is just a entertaining distraction to fill in the time before I get the next book.

  • Assuming R is the father, would Jon be the rightful heir even as a bastard son?

  • There’s only one obvious father.

    Bran, once again working some paradoxes into the space-time continuum. Next season we’ll get the big reveal that he lay with Lyanna nine months before.

  • Did any of you notice the targaryen’s music played when jon was hanging the mutineers? I think that’s another hint about his parentage

  • It’s official
    It is known
    HBO has a pretty chart linking the Kings & Queens with their guardians and murderers
    Jon is linked to Lyanna and Rhaegar

  • Jon Snow cannot be Robert’s son. The rebellion started when Lyanna was ‘kidnapped’ and the Tower of Joy was just after the sack of King’s landing. Over a year passed since Lyanna had left with Rhaegar. I think that babies are carried the same length of time in Westeros, 40 weeks, or just over 9 months. If J&L did not marry then we have Jon (Jaehaerys Blackfyre)Snow.

    • Just a slight point of fact, my own sister carried her last healthy born child for almost 12 months.

      Google “Longest Human Pregnancy on Record” and you will find an article that explains that even in our real world there have been health live births after more than a year long pregnancy. Better yet, here is the link: http://www.mommypage.com/2014/06/longest-human-pregnancy-on-record-is-mind-blowing/

      This story is one created in Fantasy, so can you say without a doubt that the gestation periods for descendant of the First Men such as Lyanna would absolutely conformed to those of real women in our real world?

      In a world that has remarkable thing such as dragons, dire wolves, wargs, wizards, Shape shifting faceless men, and magical beings like the Children of the Forest, and White walkers. You believe that the normality of the real world would apply?

      Time line statements about this story line, like yours are annoyingly comical to me because, we are talking about Fantasy.

      And since we have no solid proof that Lyanna isn’t somewhat magical in nature, how can we place our limited real world restrictions on her character and that of the rest of the story.