David Benioff and Dan Weiss on heading to Dorne for Season 5, and why it should be the strongest season yet
By Lightbringer on in Interview.

Game of Thrones Season 4 came to a close mere days ago, which means it’s not to soon to start talking about Season 5. In a new interview with Entertainment Weekly, showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss talk about where we’re headed in the fifth season, the source material they will be drawing from, and why it should be the strongest season yet.

Benioff and Weiss admit that after finishing a season they start to get nervous about the next. After Season 3 it would seem hard to top the Red Wedding, but their nerves evaporated as they got further into the development of Season 4. They say that they’re experiencing the same feelings now, as they delve deeper into Season 5. “For season 5, again, the fear started to dissipate when we outlined it and realized how much story we had to tell. Now that we’re nearly finished with the first drafts of each episode, we see no reason why the coming season shouldn’t be the strongest yet.”

With some characters on the television adaptation having already reached the end of their so-far published storyline, many are wondering how far the fifth season will extend into the two remaining books, and if the television series will continue to diverge from Martin’s written work.

Benioff and Weiss reveal, “We have talked to George extensively about where he’s going with the books, and will continue to do so. His books are the blueprint for the world we’re building. Ultimately the show needs to work on its own terms, and keep on moving. Our job is to square that necessity with George’s work to the best of our ability.

We’re not going in strict order because we can’t. We can’t adapt Feast and leave out half our characters. We’ll be drawing heavily from Feast and Dance in season 5.”

So what exactly can we expect in Season 5?

For one, Dorne. “There will be Dorne, and we’re excited about it. Who wouldn’t want to hang out in Dorne? They have admirable values and priorities. And have you seen Oberyn’s coat?”

We’ll also find out what Varys’ next move will be, after the bells made for a change in plans. “Early in the season, when speaking with Tyrion, Varys claims to be concerned primarily with self preservation. At the end of the season, though, his actions prove otherwise. He throws away the entire life he’s built for himself in King’s Landing to save Tyrion’s life. Now what? … “Now what?” will become eminently clear in season 5.”

And the fantasy aspect won’t be diminished any time soon. “The dragons aren’t getting any smaller. Melisandre’s still sorceressing, the giants are more pissed than ever, and Jaime’s almost done building his jetpack. So… yeah, the fantasy’s not going away. It is a fantasy show.”

They confirm that 7 seasons is still the plan, and that the end to George’s saga is absolutely, 100 percent satisfying. Now that they have passed the halfway point in their storytelling, they’ve started looking towards that end. Benioff says, “I feel we have so many conversations about later seasons. And this year we’ve started talking about the very end… We want this to work.”

For the full interview visit Entertainment Weekly.


283 Comments

  1. B
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    Hodor.

  2. Canis Dirus
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    bummer. I was an 8 season hopeful.

  3. gewa76
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    “For season 5, again, the fear started to dissipate when we outlined it and realized how much story we had to tell. Now that we’re nearly finished with the first drafts of each episode, we see no reason why the coming season shouldn’t be the strongest yet.”

    Where’s Tyrion Pimpslap? Now THIS is laying it on thick.

  4. Roey
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

    Giants!

  5. Kay
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    Very interesting what they had to say about Littlefinger’s motivations. I am surprised that it is so high and that D&D came right out and said so! I wonder what Sansa’s part in it will be…….

    “Littlefinger has been open with a few people about what he wants: Varys, Sansa, a few prostitutes, us. He wants everything. He wants to sit on that throne. By necessity, his path there will be twisted and indirect. But everything he does in some way points to that goal.”

  6. Jon
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    Jaime’s almost done building his jetpack

    what does it mean?

  7. Jason Yager
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    Mean he gets to Dorne quicker.

  8. Carne
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    Roey,

    That bit got me excited!

  9. Polish
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    Any predictions on who else will get the Jojen treatment? In the interview they say they’ll continue to kill off people alive in the book, surprising ones. Stannis? Davos? Littlefinger? those are my guesses off the top of my head

  10. Dwayne Roberts
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    Jamie’s almost done building his jet pack … Wait what where how why when whum …. And dorne …. It’s too early and I still hate these guys for no stoneheart and the butchered storylines but what they’ve done with the show leaves me in this state of awe hungry for season 5… “I hate u guys but I love how much Ull bring this world to the silver screen … And for that I love Ull” I shall forever say that as much as I dislike the deviations I love what’s happening … It’s like I’m in love with chocolate ice cream …because thats my original sin but u guys are making me strawberry ice cream with chocolate chips and strangely I freakin love it too.

  11. Maarten Sebastiaan de Groot
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

    LS? ;-)

  12. Ser Matt the Sullen
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    Cold opening with LS and I will be happy.

    Start including prophecies more now, and start delving more into the mythology of Westeros.

    They’ve been too busy focusing on the human element, especially because they pay the actors so much money they HAVE to make the show about them… now it’s time for things to change.

  13. Palantirqueen
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    Varys to replace Illyrio for Tyrion’s storyline?

  14. RandomSand
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    Jon,

    That he will be in multiple places next season and will move through them pretty quickly, like LF in the previous seasons. It pretty much confirms that he is going to Dorne. Oh and if they include LS I will just laugh, they completely lost their oportunity last sunday, Season 5 will be too late and they will do better cutting her, in my opinion.

  15. Hoyti Von Totiy
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    Oh god NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO please, no Dorne no Pyke no filler!!!!!

  16. House Mormont
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    Palantirqueen,

    More like Varys AND illyrio

  17. Mike
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    gewa76: Where’s Tyrion Pimpslap? Now THIS is laying it on thick.

    Nah. The next season is going to be Feast + Dance. Feast and Dance, together, are one excellent 900-page book. It’s just too bad they were published as two books totaling 2100 pages. D&D are correcting what George’s editor should have.

  18. Michel
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    I guess we will se Jaime in KL, Dorne and Riverlands these season. And it’s odd that they would talk so much about Dorne and not talk about Greyjoys if they weren’t cut. If they followed the books, Pyke storyline should be more massive even than Dorne..

  19. House Mormont
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Just to confirm, did we see that dragon flying over KL shot in an episode?

  20. Don
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    Yes. In episode 2 in the bran’s vision.

  21. Virtus
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    Jon: what does it mean?

    It’s a joke…

  22. The Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    So happy that they are sticking to 7 seasons. Get to the point of what this saga is trying to say and end it on a high note.

    With 7 seasons I hope that new characters are mainly limited to next season. Hard to get behind a bunch of new characters introduced so late in a saga.

    Winter will have come and gone in about 1,000 days. The series will be over by then.

  23. gbnf
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    Jaime is working on a jetpack, wtf?!?

  24. Maverick
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    Hoyti Von Totiy,

    Don’t worry they might cut down the amount of boat rides that were in AFFC and ADWD. Boats and Hoes, gotta get me my boats and hoes. I hope they don’t have Penny the pig whisperer.

  25. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

    Canis Dirus,

    Still very possible that they’ll go for an extended and split final season. Especially since they keep referencing Breaking Bad. This also means they dodge contract renegotiations (since the extended contracts end at 7). So I’m hopeful for two 8-episode half-seasons.

  26. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    gbnf,

    They are making a joke. Aren’t you aware of Littlefinger’s Jetpack? That’s what the community refer to when character undergo ridiculously quick travel times. Show spoiler: Jamie is going to Dorne. And the travel will probably take him 1-2 episodes.

  27. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Those who are sullied need to prepare themselves for bigger deviations from the books than we’ve ever seen. Deal with it early so you won’t be disappointed.

    ASOIAF is like two trilogies. AGOT set up for the war of five kings. ACOK was the middle of the war and ASOS the end.

    Together AFFC/ADWD make up the first part of the second trilogy. The war of the three queens + the long night 2.0. These two books are the set up for the end game. Because they aren’t written in a way that’s really easy to adapt, D&D will be taking very different paths to get the characters set up for their endgames. Count on it.

    “Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle” as Jon said to Arya.

  28. Delta1212
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    Polish,

    Nah, they haven’t killed off anybody who wasn’t completely irrelevant by that point in the books.

    I’d say Bronn is probably most at risk by that criterion. I could see them killing off Tormund and/or Mance, possibly Gilly or Selyse. Pretty much anybody in Dany’s storyline other than Dany right now is expendable. Loras is probably disposable, maybe Margaery but I doubt that would come next season if it does. Yara may be unnecessary as well depending on whether they keep the Greyjoy plotline or lop it off all together.

    There’s a consistent pattern to who they kill off prematurely on the show, and I don’t think any of those three fit that pattern. They have too much left to do in the books, I think.

  29. Michel
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    I’m very concerned about the deaths that tey said we wont predict.. Calling it now: Robin Arryn (easy one), Myrcela (die in the attack), Bronn (Arys), Littlefinger (I’m not sure about these one) Barristan (Battle in Meeren), Trystane (Quentyn)

  30. The Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

    For me, I care about the fates of 14 or so characters….

    Jon Snow, Sansa Stark, Arya Stark, Bran Stark, Jamie Lannister, Cersei Lannister, Tyrion Lannister, Stannis Baratheon, Davos Seaworth, Dany Targaryan, Varys, Littlefinger, The Hound, & Jorah Mormont.

    If they need to cut the Iron Islands or a bunch of other story lines to get to the heart of these key characters within 7 seasons then I am all for it.

  31. House Mormont
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    Someone tweeted B Cog today saying the show should have a bigger budget and longer episodes and Cogman replied saying “would that give us more hours in a day? Or more days in a year?” so I don’t think an extended season is possible unless it’s in halves

  32. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    Michel,

    They were specifically asked about Dorne, and they specifically answered.

    I still remain hopeful that we’ll get Euron and the Kingsmoot but time will tell. There was a “leak” recently where a GOT location tour guide (yes, they exist) in Ireland took people to a set being prepped for season 5 (supposedly) which will be the location of the Kingsmoot. The tour guide works in transporting the GOT crew to locations, and he took the tourists to many other GOT sets so he seems like a rather legit source. Also, the set itself is in a beach not far from the original Iron Island locations. The one hole in the story is that the same tour guide said they began shooting season 5 already (which is absolutely not true). So take it with a grain of salt, but it’s still better than nothing.

  33. Abyss
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    [...] Jaime’s almost done building his jetpack.

    Please D&D, we all know that Jaime is working on a gravity belt. Jetpack… Seriously…

  34. Ser Maester
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    Did “Jamie” say something about making a jet pack in the popular Game of Thrones bad lip reading video? Might be referencing that as a joke, but it could mean he’ll be jumping around Westeros next season. (So it could be a good sign for people holding out hope for the riverlands storyline.)
    EDIT: Nevermind about that bad lip reading thing, he says he’s working on a gravity belt, not jet pack.

  35. Delta1212
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    The number of people incapable of recognizing that the jet pack is a joke is truly astounding.

  36. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    As I mentioned, an extended AND SPLIT season. As in, just like Breaking Bad, the first half comes out in one year and the second half in the next. Otherwise there’s no way they’ll manage it.

  37. Palantirqueen
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    Ah, that would make all the exposition twice as quick for the Unsullied viewers :p

  38. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    Carne,

    Wun Wun!!!
    They won’t. I won’t believe it till I see it! If he’s in… People would love it!

  39. Palantirqueen
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    Also I’m fairly certain they’ll kill off Grey Worm. Why else are they giving him a romance with Missandei?

  40. Michel
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

    We all talk about Dorne and the Greyjoys, but what about Oldtown? Are we all in agree that it’s 100% cut?

  41. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Polish,

    Those are too high tier to die before the books IMO. People who aren’t: Jorah, Barristan, Robin Arryn, Merryn Trant and any number of small side-roles (such as Pyo, Grenn) which I can’t think of off the top of my head.

  42. Winnie
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Nah. The next season is going to be Feast + Dance. Feast and Dance, together, are one excellent 900-page book. It’s just too bad they were published as two books totaling 2100 pages. D&D are correcting what George’s editor should have.

    Agreed. And unlike Martin they’re going to get to at least SOME of the climaxes that he was hinting at but didn’t actually do like Battle of Winterfell and Mereen where I suspect we’ll be a LOT of negative population growth. Just about everyone in Mereen except Dany is expendable and I’m betting the Bolton’s are both going down. I also fear for Bronn, Robyn Arryn, Stannis (perhaps fighting a Bolton) and most especially Shireen. I’m kinda hoping Sansa is somehow responsible for the imminent death of Littlefinger and that poor Theon is put of his misery soon.

    It’s good though, to have it confirmed its seven seasons not eight-and that they’re not afraid of charging ahead in the story. Gives me ammo against those people at the ASOIAF board who are still in denial thinking next season will end with Dany at the Pit and other BS. I’m hoping the Greyjoys make it, (if only by allusion to play a role in Season 6) but I’ll understand if they have to prioritize other things. Really hoping JonCon/Aegon don’t make it-that story always annoyed me, Varys can just as easily be scheming for Dany instead, (indeed it would be the smarter move,) and Dorne can throw their support Dany’s way too.

  43. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    Palantirqueen,

    Absolutely. This is the replacement to Stalwart Shield or whatever he’s called.

  44. Ser Maester
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

    Michel,

    I think we’ll see that in the begginng of season 6. Sam’s storyline can end this season with Aemon’s death and sex with Gilly. Might be to expensive having that this year.

  45. 3eyes
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    I sensed a new confidence in the storytelling this year, and I have high expectations for S5. Valar Morghulis!

  46. Michel
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

    Ser Maester,

    But do you think he will go to Braavos or all that stuff will happen at the Wall and he will go directly to Oldtown at the end of the season?

  47. crabber's son
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    Michel,

    I think theres no reason they cant save oldtown till season 6.

  48. Palantirqueen
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    Oh blimey yes, I’d forgotten about Stalwart Shield! We’re going to have a touching scene of the two of them hugging before he cops it…

  49. The Ghost of Nymeria, of House Shaggydog, Breaker of Summer & Lady of the Grey Wind
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    Lol Are they hoping to pull a George and extend the series at the last minute, just like he does? I’m still not buying this 7 seasons stuff. Cersei’s FfC & DwD material will take her all the way to s6 by itself. What are they gonna do, put her entire Winds & Dream material into one season?

    One thing’s for sure, if they’re serious about 7 seasons, then the Iron Islands is more definitely not in the show. Which confuses me all the more as to why they bothered keeping Yasha in the story at all.

  50. Joe Frost
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    Glad Dorne is in but I want some reassurance on the Kingsmoot, Old and Young Griff and Oldtown. If they’re going to cut something then cut Quentyn Martell’s pointless storyline and to be honest do we really need 3 sandsnakes when they don’t really do anything? (unless it’s another excuse for more tits on screen ala Missandei’s aging up).I feel Lord Manderly and perhaps Penny will be cut which is a shame as they’re two of my favourite minor characters but I could accept it. I will be more pissed if they cut big characters like Victarion, Euron and Lady Stoneheart who are quite important to the storylines.
    My only glimmer of hope comes in the fact they must have seriously slashed (no pun intended!) the wage bill with the huge amount of cast members killed off this season so hopefully room to get a fair few more in.

  51. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

    crabber’s son,

    I agree. Season 5 is already overcrowded with new sets and characters, Oldtown can be delayed to early season 6.

    He’ll ship off in episode 3ish then appear in Braavos in the midseason then leave it towards the end for that one ship scene of Aemon’s funeral and Fat Pink Mast. I think most of his scenes will be in Braavos, though.

  52. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    The Ghost of Nymeria, of House Shaggydog, Breaker of Summer & Lady of the Grey Wind,

    I think you have a flawed piece of speculation on how long Cersei’s arc will last. It will take one season, and at best could flood into the first or second episode of season 6- no more.

  53. The Loon
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    SAAAAAAAAAAND SNAAAAAAAAAKES…also Arianne will be cool…but I hope they hyper charge the Snakes…give them some legit stuff to do

  54. Sean C.
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Michel: I’m very concerned about the deaths that tey said we wont predict.. Calling it now: Robin Arryn (easy one), Myrcela (die in the attack), Bronn (Arys), Littlefinger (I’m not sure about these one) Barristan (Battle in Meeren), Trystane (Quentyn)

    Robin Arryn would hardly seem to count as an unexpected death. Virtually everybody seems to be predicting that, either in the books or show.

  55. The Loon
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Canis Dirus,

    they cannot predict 7 seasons…they know the broad strokes of GRRM’s plan but he could write in a ton of stuff in the next two books that they’d have to adapt and wouldn’t be able to skip…D and D may be done after 7 seasons but that does not mean HBO won’t want to keep it going

  56. Darquemode
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    Nice idea!
    I could not for the life of me understand why they would play up a romance like they did, but if your theory holds it now makes some sense to me…

  57. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    The Loon,

    You get your wish. The Sand Snake mostly take over Arianne’s role (alongside Trystane). It doesn’t seem to me like Arianne will make the cut.

  58. Se Maester
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Michel,

    I think he’ll go to Bravos and interact Arya a bit. (I’d bet they get more involved with each other than in the books.)

  59. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    I wonder what they’re going to do with Aegon? I’m thinking Varys is going to replace Jon Con. Since they’re handing out jetpacks he can still get to KL to kill Kevan and Pycelle if they’re planning on keeping that in.

    There doesn’t seem to be any casting news regarding Aegon yet. It’s too early to assume he’s not in season 5 but I think it’s possible he can be pushed back to season 6. The emphasis on Dorne seems to indicate that the plot isn’t being cut entirely.

    What they can do is have Varys send Tyrion straight to Dany with no team Aegon involvement. At the end of season 5 the people in KL start hearing rumors of someone taking castles in the Stormlands. Then in season 6 we actually see it confirmed when Arianne goes to meet Aegon at storm’s end.

    That’s all highly speculative I know.

  60. LittleFlower
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont:
    Palantirqueen,

    More like Varys AND illyrio

    I hope so! One of things that surprised me the most in the finale, in an entirely off-book, wtf, exciting way, was Varys leaving KL. I really hope this portends a road trip/character pairing of Tyrion and Varys. Squeeeeeeeee!

  61. The Loon
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    Delta1212,

    really is astonishing

  62. Veltigar
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    And the fantasy aspect won’t be diminished any time soon. “The dragons aren’t getting any smaller. Melisandre’s still sorceressing, the giants are more pissed than ever, and Jaime’s almost done building his jetpack. So… yeah, the fantasy’s not going away. It is a fantasy show.

    In other words, fantasy is trash and we don’t need to care about logical consistency, coherence, build-up and you know… everything else that makes great storytelling. Because it’s fantasy.

    We’ll also find out what Varys’ next move will be, after the bells made for a change in plans. “Early in the season, when speaking with Tyrion, Varys claims to be concerned primarily with self preservation. At the end of the season, though, his actions prove otherwise. He throws away the entire life he’s built for himself in King’s Landing to save Tyrion’s life. Now what? … “Now what?” will become eminently clear in season 5.”

    Have those fucking hacks even read the books? At this point I just don’t know

    Do not cast MM as Euron. I take everything back, waisting his talents on a show like this, on a character that will probably be raped anyway is a crime against humanity

  63. Turncloak
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

    jentario:
    Palantirqueen,

    Absolutely. This is the replacement to Stalwart Shield or whatever he’s called.

    Good call

  64. The Loon
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    or they’ve already cast her…I know the casting call from a while back didn’t mention her but that doesn’t mean she’s out…heck, they had Oberyn cast well before last season ended and they announced it shortly after (June 28th)…just like I doubt the Greyjoy uncles are out, maybe 1 or 2, but there is a big plot point at the end of Dance that requires at least one of them…also we have the last leech hanging over the show that needs resolving

  65. Lyn
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    I think Sam will arrive to Oldtown in the last episode of Season 5. It would only be necessary an image of Sam arriving to Oldtown in a similar fashion to Stannis arriving to Braavos. It wouldn’t cost much because no characters would be cast. They can leave all his interactions with Maester Marwyn and Alleras for Season 6.

  66. Durrandon's Fool
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

    “Benioss”?

    Ha, we can call him Benioss the Boss.

    But more seriously, proof reading is important.

  67. RBloodworth
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    Polish,

    This is obviously a wild-ass guess here, but Yara Greyjoy. I could see her taking on the roles of both her uncle Victarion AND Quentyn Martell: After losing the Kingsmoot to Euron, she would sail to Meereen in an attempt to plunder Dany’s dragons (under the guise of serving Euron’s interests, but really to sate her own thirst for vengeance). Her and her crew would be killed in a botched attempt to steal Rhaegal and Viserion, who then escape their chamber.

  68. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    Is it just your silly, unlimited signatures promoting Mads that made me think you were once a decent poster?

  69. Dan
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    It’s going to be a brutally long wait to get back to the show. I’m holding off on watching any further until the books come out, but I’ll go on a marathon session as soon as I finish reading them. Should be a great finish. Have fun everyone.

  70. The Ghost of Nymeria, of House Shaggydog, Breaker of Summer & Lady of the Grey Wind
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    Really? Cos I always pictured her burning the Tower of the Hand being in ep 3 and her arrest coming in the 9th or 10th ep of season 5. Then her walk of punishment would be in ep 4 or 5 of season 6 with the last few eps of season 6 featuring her trial. How do you think it’s gonna break down?

  71. Michel
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    And Brienne, what she will do?I’ts a bit unreal to expect Tarly, Gendry,
    the gravedigger scene and BwB? But I bet at least 2 of that 4

  72. Balon01
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar: In other words, fantasy is trash and we don’t need to care about logical consistency, coherence, build-up and you know… everything else that makes great storytelling. Because it’s fantasy.

    It was a joke.

  73. Michel
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    The Ghost of Nymeria, of House Shaggydog, Breaker of Summer & Lady of the Grey Wind,

    no way! Walk of punishment will be these season, im 99% sure

  74. Veltigar
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Veltigar,

    Is it just your silly, unlimited signatures promoting Mads that made me think you were once a decent poster?

    The magic of Mads is known to have blinded people before. But seriously dude, nice ad hominem you tried there.

    No MM as Euron

  75. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    The Ghost of Nymeria, of House Shaggydog, Breaker of Summer & Lady of the Grey Wind,

    I seriously doubt they will have her burn down the Tower Of The Hand. My guess is she is arrested in episode 6 or 7 and her Walk of Shame is in episode 9 or 10.

  76. Veltigar
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    Balon01: It was a joke.

    Doubt it with their trackrecord. Everyone remembers LF’s jetpack in season 2 right? Or that of Brienne and Pod this season.

  77. Nai Naisson
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    gbnf,

    It’s a joke. He’s really working on a flamethrower to replace his missing hand.

  78. Jon Blackfyre
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    Theres no way Ironborn or oldtown will be cut from the story. Ironbon will be there next season. Oldtown doesnt necessarily have to be this next season. why is everyone asking for longer and more episodes. More seasons is the solution but that wont happen and the story will be rushed cutting out too much pissing to many people off.

  79. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Why are my posts going to moderation? The first one showed up but I made my second on probably 20 minutes ago and it’s not there.

    Is this happening to anyone else?

  80. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    The Ghost of Nymeria, of House Shaggydog, Breaker of Summer & Lady of the Grey Wind,

    I expect a lot of things to get cut, for one. The Tower of the Hand scene, for instance, might not make it. Essentially, I think they get to the arrest in episode 8 or 9 and have the Walk of Shame in the finale. Lena suggested it will be in season 5. As for a breakdown… I don’t really remember all the important bits of Cersei’s arc but I would have tried if I did. Just expect lots of cuts. Taena Merryweather for instance could get axed (though I hope not), the Kettleblack combined into Merryn Trant, all the stuff in between the arrest and the Walk will probably get rushed… I still think the Walk could be an early season 6 scene, but Lena suggests otherwise.

  81. Carne
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    Why include Oldtown in the show at all? It just means more locations and sets. Makes sense to have Sam, Gilly and Aemon travel to Braavos, where they can also throw in some Arya interactions if they feel like it.

  82. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    It happens to me occasionally, not now though.

  83. Balon01
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar: Doubt it with their trackrecord. Everyone remembers LF’s jetpack in season 2 right? Or that of Brienne and Pod this season.

    So it’s not a joke. Jaime REALLY build a jetpack. Okay…

  84. The Ghost of Nymeria, of House Shaggydog, Breaker of Summer & Lady of the Grey Wind
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I could see that. But, then, do you think her dinner with Kevan will moved to a night when he doesn’t die? Or do you think the entire assassination plotline has been cut, espec considering that Varys is apparently leaving KL? Having her trial in early season 6 doesn’t really seem like a note to end season 5 on. Her arrest does. And when do you think Margaery will be arrested? Will it be pre or post invasion of the Shields? Unless they’re seriously expanding Loras’ role, who’ll be the face of the Tyrells during this time(I’m assuming that Mace will no longer be in the Capital when she is arrested)? If Margaery’s arrest is post Shield invasion, like it is in the books, then that would mean it’s happening in ep 3 or 4. Which only gives them 2 episodes to establish the entire Greyjoy storyline and Balon isn’t even dead yet. I could see your idea working but it would make all the other stories incredibly rushed IMO to have Cersei’s reign barely last half a season.

  85. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    About every 10th post of mine gets redirected to the “spam filter”, on average, for the past few months. And it’s usually the posts that I care most about…

  86. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    I always find this ‘jetpack’ stuff to be utter nonsense. There are only 10 episodes per season, and like the books, each storyline is not lined up chronologically. We have no idea how much time passes between episodes during each given storyline. For instance, in the pilot, Jaime and Cersei are in King’s Landing at the start, and later appear in Winterfell during the same episode. The King’s traveling party goes from Winterfell to King’s Landing in less than 2 episodes. Catelyn traveled from King’s Landing to the Riverlands in 1 episode. Anyone with half a brain should be able to infer that some time has passed in each case.

  87. Darquemode
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

    Nai Naisson,

    This made me think of Bruce Campbell as Ash from Evil dead re-cast as Jaime Lannister! He does have experience playing a hero with a missing hand afterall! XD

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RUHEFptA4d8/T7onnqmMkFI/AAAAAAAAOC0/oRRGwYRnw04/s1600/Army+of+Darkness+Medieval+Ash+Action+Figure.jpg

    This is my BOOMSTICK!

  88. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    The Ghost of Nymeria, of House Shaggydog, Breaker of Summer & Lady of the Grey Wind,

    I think most of what you listed will be cut, or altered. I don’t think the attack on the Shield Isle will be included, as most of the Greyjoy plot will be condensed/cut. I could see Margaery being arrested in episode 4 or 5, and Cersei going to visit her in episode 6 or 7, when she is arrested as well.

  89. Tyroshi Barber
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Joe Frost:
    Glad Dorne is in but I want some reassurance on the Kingsmoot, Old and Young Griff and Oldtown. If they’re going to cut something then cut Quentyn Martell’s pointless storyline and to be honest do we really need 3 sandsnakes when they don’t really do anything? (unless it’s another excuse for more tits on screen ala Missandei’s aging up).I feel Lord Manderly and perhaps Penny will be cut which is a shame as they’re two of my favourite minor characters but I could accept it. I will be more pissed if they cut big characters like Victarion, Euron and Lady Stoneheart who are quite important to the storylines.My only glimmer of hope comes in the fact they must have seriously slashed (no pun intended!) the wage bill with the huge amount of cast members killed off this season so hopefully room to get a fair few more in.

    Totally agreed except the Quentyn storyline. Someone should get roasted!
    And I love the idea of a Dorner and an Ironborn chasing after the same bride. That would be an easy storyline for tv audiences to understand.

    And Kevan Lannister: if they introduce Qyburn, they should introduce him wouldn’t they?

  90. Darquemode
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    Jon Blackfyre,

    I hope so too, but I did begin to wonder when Daario captured a fleet of 93 ships (Didn’t Victarion have 93 ships at some point?). Seems like laying the groundwork for a possible way to cut Victarion out.

  91. mariamb
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    As far as Cersei’s storyline…

    I’m a little wary of trusting anything that Lena says after the “heart of stones” fiasco but I believe that her Walk of Shame will be in S5. I’m wondering how the Epilogue will play out considering that we haven’t seen Kevan since S2. Presumably, he comes back early next season, right after Tywin’s death and battles with Cersei for a time before she is imprisoned.

  92. King Stannis
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    Balon01: So it’s not a joke. Jaime REALLY build a jetpack. Okay…

    No. The jetpack build Jaime

  93. John M W
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    I always find this ‘jetpack’ stuff to be utter nonsense. There are only 10 episodes per season, and like the books, each storyline is not lined up chronologically. We have no idea how much time passes between episodes during each given storyline. For instance, in the pilot, Jaime and Cersei are in King’s Landing at the start, and later appear in Winterfell during the same episode. The King’s traveling party goes from Winterfell to King’s Landing in less than 2 episodes. Catelyn traveled from King’s Landing to the Riverlands in 1 episode. Anyone with half a brain should be able to infer that some time has passed in each case.

    You’re making too much sense. There’s no place for that here.

    ;)

  94. The Ghost of Nymeria, of House Shaggydog, Breaker of Summer & Lady of the Grey Wind
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    So you think Euron will take the Seastone Chair & send Victarion straight to Meereen? That could work, I suppose. Do you think they’ll “extend” the Greyjoy story and not have Victarion leave until the end of the season, so that he doesn’t arrive there at the same time as Tyrion? The amount of butterfly effect is about to be off the charts :/

  95. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard:
    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    About every 10th post of mine gets redirected to the “spam filter”, on average, for the past few months. And it’s usually the posts that I care most about…

    Yeah, I wrote a three or four paragraph post speculating about what they’re going to do next season. Apparently that’s bad even though everything was properly spoiler tagged.

    But substance free book purist vs. show apologist snipes and troll posts never seem to get lost.

    Maybe they want this to turn into the YouTube comments section or something.

  96. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

    The Bastard:
    For me, I care about the fates of 14 or so characters….

    Jon Snow, Sansa Stark, Arya Stark, Bran Stark, Jamie Lannister, Cersei Lannister, Tyrion Lannister, Stannis Baratheon, Davos Seaworth, Dany Targaryan, Varys, Littlefinger, The Hound, & Jorah Mormont.

    If they need to cut the Iron Islands or a bunch of other story lines to get to the heart of these key characters within 7 seasons then I am all for it.

    HODOR?

    WeirwoodTreeHugger: I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Those who are sullied need to prepare themselves for bigger deviations from the books than we’ve ever seen. Deal with it early so you won’t be disappointed.

    Agreed. Enjoy the show for being a great show, not a filmed version of your imagination.

    Veltigar: Have those fucking hacks even read the books? At this point I just don’t know

    From the perspective of a show-only viewer, that statement makes logical sense, though. He seems to have thrown away his life. But that’s not true, it is known.

    Tyroshi Barber: And Kevan Lannister: if they introduce Qyburn, they should introduce him wouldn’t they?

    They’ve been spare with their usage of certain characters. It’s entirely possible they bring back Ian Gelder next year for when they really needed him. He appeared in 5-6 episodes; it makes sense to me. If not, well, we’ll see.

    And I get the jetpack talk – I think it’s tongue-in-cheek.

  97. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    I’d be fine even if they somehow leave the Greyjoys largely out of Season 5, and bring in Big Vic in Season 6 to hit Meereen.

  98. Don
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    I just hope they would get Bran a new wig next season or just let him grow his hair out.
    Jesus how does that even got past pre-production stage.

  99. Troublesome Birdsong
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    I’m surprised how many people didn’t predict Varys leaving with Tyrion. I would have thought that was an obvious change to make. They weren’t going to have Varys just disappear for almost two books. It makes sense for them to go meet with Illyrio in episode 1; then Varys and Tyrion get on the boat with Griff in episode 2 or 3; Varys takes the role of Haldon Halfmaester (teaching young Griff, playing Cyvasse with Tyrion); and when Tyrion splits up with them near Volantis and gets captured by Jorah, Varys stays with Griff and returns to Westeros with the Golden Company ready to eventually kill Kevan and Pycelle in season 6. I’m not sure what else he’d be doing otherwise.

  100. Kaldor
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    Mike: D&D are correcting what George’s editor should have.

    finally some fan realises that. THUMBS UP.

  101. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Your comment should be enough for the mod to resuscitate your spammed post. It’ll probably appear soon.

    Hey Mods, don’t fuck with WTH’s posts! She’s got a vicious set of metaphors in her quiver!

    OT: As punishment for playing like crap in the World Cup, Spain should not be hosting Dorne for S5.

  102. Lyn
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    I think the conversation about the attack on the Shield islands will be included. They need to show Margaery confronting Cersei and their relationship beggining to go get very nasty. And I just don’t see them cutting the litte material Margaery has. It is also the conversation that prompts Loras to attack Dragonstone. It could be cut but I think it wouldn’t be a wise decision. And I need to hear Margaery say to Cersei ”I command it!”.

  103. Lyn
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    I’m still crying…why oh why :(. But I will continue to support my team no matter what. Go Spain!

  104. House Mormont
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    I’m really interested in how they’re going to handle Tyrion’ s journey

    The whole disguised important people bit NEEDS to be cut due to 1) the medium and 2) it being dumb

    Then of course the entire turtle journey can be cut barring the stone men

    nd no raping whores pls

    And no Penny pls

    and will they still have him in slavery? Will they make that more impactful? Or will they make him meet Dany instead?

  105. Luka Nieto Garay
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Troublesome Birdsong,

    I agree completely in that it’s a great change, except I’m pretty sure we’ll see Varys killing Pycelle and Kevan, and hence the surprise invasion of the Stormlands, right at the end of season 5.

  106. JohnnySD
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    jentario: Robin Arryn would hardly seem to count as an unexpected death. Virtually everybody seems to be predicting that, either in the books or show.

    Cersei’s arc on TV could fit in less than an hour. She has like 30 chapters and almost nothing happens other than scheming and nonsense. Plus the animosity with Maragaery is well established. They can EASILY cover all of books 5 and 6 and some stuff from TWOW next season. Easily.

  107. Turncloak
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    Here’s a thought:

    What if Sarella Sand’s(The Sphinx) role in Oldtown turns out to be really important? D&D might change Sarella’s name to Arianne and have her be Doran’s daughter instead of Oberyn’s. This would enable them to hold off casting Arianne until she is needed for TWOW material. We can get a mention by Doran of Arianne “playing her little game in Oldtown”

  108. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    The Ghost of Nymeria, of House Shaggydog, Breaker of Summer & Lady of the Grey Wind,

    I think the murder of Kevan/Pycelle happens early in season 6. There’s no room for it in season 5, especially with Varys tagging along to Pentos and potentially to the whole Aegon journey. When Aegon lands in Westeros, Varys can say he’s “off to do buisness” and sneak into King’s Landing for the assassinations (so basically this is episode 1-2 of season 6). Cersei gets roughly 8-9 episodes of ruling, which should be enough.

  109. Troublesome Birdsong
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    I always find this ‘jetpack’ stuff to be utter nonsense. There are only 10 episodes per season, and like the books, each storyline is not lined up chronologically. We have no idea how much time passes between episodes during each given storyline. For instance, in the pilot, Jaime and Cersei are in King’s Landing at the start, and later appear in Winterfell during the same episode. The King’s traveling party goes from Winterfell to King’s Landing in less than 2 episodes. Catelyn traveled from King’s Landing to the Riverlands in 1 episode. Anyone with half a brain should be able to infer that some time has passed in each case.

    I remember they did specify that a lot of time had gone by in those early episodes though. Time needed to pass if only because the Direwolves needed to grow a whole heap just in the first two episodes and I think Cersei mentioned they had been traveling for a month to get to Winterfell so at least we were told. There’s been less of that in recent seasons, so it’s harder to keep track of how much time has passed and whether we’re meant to think the same amount has passed in different storylines. Not to mention things that end up seeming like continuity errors. I remember in ‘The Lion and the Rose’ there was the wedding day breakfast scene where Joffrey received Widow’s Wail, then they cut to a Dragonstone scene at night burning people, then back to the same day at the wedding, as if King’s Landing and Dragonstone were on opposites sides of the planet rather than basically right next to each other.

  110. House Mormont
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    Ps can anybody tell me what the song that plays when Dany chains Viserion and Rhaegal is called?

  111. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    But that still means the Arianne we know and live is cut. Sarella is supposed to look enough like a man, and is far from the feisty sexual manipulator that Arianne is. Best case senario if Arianne isn’t cast this season is if they introduce her in season 6 to treat with Aegon, but I doubt they would skip her in season 5 if that was the case.

  112. Walter Harrow
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    Im hoping Arya features heavily next season. She is one of the few characters will plenty of content left from the books and i think they could even add a bit more for her to do

  113. goik
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    It’s called “Breaker of chains”. Ironically

  114. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    Troublesome Birdsong,

    We had the same idea.
    There was no way they’d let Varys disappear, especially since the opportunity allows them to have more Varys than ever. To involve him in his own plot makes a lot of sense.

  115. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    Oh come on…Tyrion riding a pig before Drogon swoops in would be epic! :)


    The Sorrows and the Stoned Men will be so cool!
    The Griff dynamic duo and Septa Lemore! What a reveal! Maybe even with Varys in the mix?
    Tyrion and Jorah and Penny performing a drunk burlesque!
    A chance for Tyrion and Jorah and Moqorro (and Vic)?
    Tyrion & Blubberman Yezzan & the Second Sons!

    What is not to like?

  116. smitzzz
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar: Doubt it with their trackrecord. Everyone remembers LF’s jetpack in season 2 right? Or that of Brienne and Pod this season.

    Wow they are damned if they do and damned if they don’t , all I ever read on here and westeros.org is book readers whining and complaining about Brienne’s boring chapters wandering through the riverlands and now D&D get grief because they cut it out , wow just wow , you guys will cry over anything.

  117. Troublesome Birdsong
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    Here’s a thought:

    What if Sarella Sand’s(The Sphinx) role in Oldtown turns out to be really important? D&D might change Sarella’s name to Arianne and have her be Doran’s daughter instead of Oberyn’s. This would enable them to hold off casting Arianne until she is needed for TWOW material. We can get a mention by Doran of Arianne “playing her little game in Oldtown”

    That would really depend on what Arianne is meant to be doing with Aegon while Sarella is doing things in Oldtown. If the characters merge, which storyline gets cut.

  118. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    The slavery arc is definitely in. They are casting Yezzan, who was Tyrion’s slave master. I hope they’ll cast the slaver lady who keeps saying “and one” in the auction block, that was hilarious.

  119. Sean C.
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

    The Loon:
    they cannot predict 7 seasons…they know the broad strokes of GRRM’s plan but he could write in a ton of stuff in the next two books that they’d have to adapt and wouldn’t be able to skip…D and D may be done after 7 seasons but that does not mean HBO won’t want to keep it going

    We’re basically at the point where any additions GRRM may make to the story are no longer relevant. Season 5 has been scripted. By this time next year, they’ll have scripted Season 6, which will be covering TWOW (which may or may not be out yet). Even if it is out, they’ll be scripting Season 7 (based on ADOS) by this time in 2016, and there’s no way that GRRM will have done truly significant work on ADOS by that point.

    Troublesome Birdsong:

    I’m surprised how many people didn’t predict Varys leaving with Tyrion. I would have thought that was an obvious change to make. They weren’t going to have Varys just disappear for almost two books. It makes sense for them to go meet with Illyrio in episode 1; then Varys and Tyrion get on the boat with Griff in episode 2 or 3; Varys takes the role of Haldon Halfmaester (teaching young Griff, playing Cyvasse with Tyrion); and when Tyrion splits up with them near Volantis and gets captured by Jorah, Varys stays with Griff and returns to Westeros with the Golden Company ready to eventually kill Kevan and Pycelle in season 6. I’m not sure what else he’d be doing otherwise.

    There’s no reason why Varys would go with Tyrion that far. He’s a character the writers are comfortable having in 3-5 episodes a season. He can appear in Pentos in the opening of the story, then head back to King’s Landing and make his surprise appearance in the finale to kill Kevan/Pycelle/whoever.

  120. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

    smitzzz,

    Veltigar is on full book purist mode after the last few episodes disappointed him

  121. Delta1212
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    Durrandon’s Fool:
    “Benioss”?

    Ha, we can call him Benioss the Boss.

    But more seriously, proof reading is important.

    Cut Lightbriner some slack. He does his best.

  122. Delta1212
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    “You’re wrong because you’re a crappy poster” is an ad hominem. “You’re a crappy poster” is just an insult.

  123. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.: We’re basically at the point where any additions GRRM may make to the story are no longer relevant.Season 5 has been scripted.By this time next year, they’ll have scripted Season 6, which will be covering TWOW (which may or may not be out yet).Even if it is out, they’ll be scripting Season 7 (based on ADOS) by this time in 2016, and there’s no way that GRRM will have done truly significant work on ADOS by that point.

    Until proven wrong by the show and upcoming book, I will continue to believe that D&D/GoT will only adapt ASoI&F up to the end of TWoW, which will have some faux finales for many storylines, like false summits in the hiking world. The real finales (peaks) will be saved for GRRM when he completes ADoS. He WILL have the last word on the subject.

  124. clk
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

    I don’t understand why some people even think of season 5 being weak. Personally, Iloved books 4 and 5 and hope they make and awesome season, focusing more in politcs and all good moments.
    I really like predicting how will be adapted (or sharing how I hope will be adapted) so here is what I think will happen in the North:


    The Wall:
    1 ep: Stannis offers Winterfell to Jon, LC election (Alliser vs Slynt vs Jon), Jon wins with Alliser suport thanks to Sam(episode ends here)
    2 ep: Stannis makes his speech to the wildlings prisioners. Stannis talks with Mance,say know that some wildlings escaped at the Battle and are being led by the skinchange Varamyr. Stannis talks with Jon that none of the northern houses had sworn allegiance. Jon talks with Melisandre.
    3 ep: Stannis “burns” Mace, but is another man. Jon talks with Sam, Alisser, Edd, Aemon and Slynt his estrategies (he needs to occupy others NW castles and want to establish the free folk on the Gift), with Alliser saying that they need more food and money.
    4 ep: Stannis sends Davos to treat with the Manderlys. Sam, Gilly and Aemon departs for Braavos (to get money for the NW from the IB and to go to Oldtown). Jon send Slynt to one of the NW castle, he refuses and gets beheaded.
    5 ep: Jon helps Stannis in how to conquer the North (treat with the mountain clans and invade Winterfell to get northern support). Stannis talks with Selyse and Melisandre and leaves. Tormund gets afraid with Shirren’s greyscale. He leaves to speak with Varamyr and bring the wildlings to the Wall.
    6 ep: Melisandre say to Jon that Mance wasn’t burn as a request of her for Stannis, because she knew he could be important. She sends him to rescue “Arya”.
    7 ep: Tormund returns with 10 000 wildlings, but says that are other 10 000 including Varamyr in Hardhome surrounded by WW. Alliser and Selyse oppose to the passage of the wildlings to the south of the Wall, but they pass.
    8 ep: Tormund speaks with Jon and both decide to lead the rescue on Hardhome. Alliser hears it, irate.
    9 ep: NONE
    10 ep: Jon and Tormund are discussing the final preparations for the rescue when Edd comes with a letter from Ramsay Bolton. Purple Letter. Jon says to the NW that he will attack Winterfell and that Stannis is dead. Melisandre,Selyse and Shirren leaves to their chambers chocked. Jon is stabbed 4 times by Alliser.
    NEW CHARACTERS: NONE


    North of the Wall
    1 ep: NONE
    2 ep: Bran conforts Meera of her lost. 3 Eyed Raven explains to Bran what it is to be have the greensight.
    3 ep: Leaf and others COTF explains to Bran about their race and how they became almost extinct.
    4 ep: NONE
    5 ep: Leaf gives Bran a weirwood paste and he eats it. He sees Winterfell 100 years ago and then Ned asking for the old goods for Jon and Robb be safe.
    6 ep: Varamyr, a warg, is in Hardhome, a goslty village, with 10 000 of sick and hungry wildlings in a deplorable state. He wargs in a dog and it runs throw the wood searching for someone. It encounters Tormund, and it asks for him follow it. Tormund sees alofe the village and then notice that it is surrounded by WWs. He runs. A WW encounters the dog and kill it (episode ends here).
    7 ep: NONE
    8 ep: 3ER explains to Bran his history (that he was a Targaryen bastard and LC of NW). Bran says to 3ER about Theon and how him too never had a house. He says he saw him and that he pardons him.
    9 ep: NONE
    10 ep: 3ER says to Bran that Bran needs to discover some mysteries. He eats the weirwood paste and sees Jon Snow face.
    NEW CHARACTERS: Varamyr


    The North:
    1 ep: NONE
    2 ep: Roose says to Ramsay that he needs the support of others northern houses and that he isn’t worried about Stannis. He presents to Ramsay his future wife, Arya Stark, that is actualy Jeyne Poole.
    3 ep: Jeyne ask for help from Reek, who already knew her. Ramsay and Jeyne marry. Ramsay bed her. Roose speaks with Reek about Ramsay.
    4 ep: NONE
    5 ep: Davos requires that Manderly supports Stannis. Wyman is with some Freys, including Lothar Frey. He demands that Davos return to the dungeons and that he loses his head.
    6 ep: Wyman speaks with Davos and says that he will support Stannis if Davos rescue Rickon, who was last seen going to Skaagos.
    7 ep: Wyman arrives at Winterfell with Lothar and they argue. Mance speaks with Theon, without revealing himself. Stannis, after gaining support of the mountain clains, sees Yara and some ironmen while marching at Winterfell, kill the ironmen and apprehend Yara.
    8 ep: Some Bolton guards are murdered inside Winterfell. Roose suspects the Manderly. Mance says to Reek who he are and that he needs he’s help. Reek ask for help to the weirwood tree in Winterfell and says he is sorry for killing the farmer childrens. He hears Bran’s voice saying “Theon”. Stannis says to Yara that she is his prize and they held camp outside the walls of Winterfell.
    9 ep: Theon rescue Jeyne, jumping outside the walls, but Mance is captured. Roose and Ramsay get desperate and send Manderly and Frey troops to deal with Stannis. Begginig of the batle, but we don’t see if Stannis wins or dies and the end of the battle(this is takes only 15 minutes of the episode).
    10 ep: NONE
    NEW CHARACTERS: Jeyne Poole, Wyman Manderly

    I hope you people comment about my predictions. The South and the East I will do later.
    And I think would be cool if the site made a space where we can discuss and predict season 5.

  125. Veltigar
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

    smitzzz: Wow they are damned if they do and damned if they don’t , all I ever read on here and westeros.org is book readers whining and complaining about Brienne’sboring chapters wandering through the riverlands and now D&D get grief because they cut it out , wow just wow , you guys will cry over anything.

    Sigh… I shouldn’t answer to such blatant strawmanning but I’ll make an exception just this once. For starters, I liked Brienne’s chapters in AFFC. Not all bookreaders fail to see the quality in those amazing chapters.

    Secondly, would Brienne’s chapters in the RL (and technically the crownlands) have have made for good TV? Lol, of course not, they were magnificently written (Septon Meribald’s speech is the finest piece of writing in the entire series), but they were low on plot and in a show with only ten hours their just isn’t room for an arc like that.

    However, does that automatically mean that whatever D&D put in place of this arc would be better than Brienne’s book arc? Or more importantly, that whatever they put in to place would make for good TV on its own? No, of course not. And whoever thinks that is guilty of an appeal to novilty (which is an informal fallacy btw).

    What we got in the place of Brienne’s storyline in the books was a bag of shit. Logically inconsistent shit to make it even worse. Would Brienne’s chapters in the books have been better? More logically consistent certainly, but it would have lacked some narrative drive.

    But guess what? It doesn’t matter, I don’t have to look at the books. A weaker arc in the books does not excuse a weaker arc in the show. You critique the show as a work of art of its own, and Brienne’s arc is just subpar.

    Delta1212:
    Veltigar,

    “You’re wrong because you’re a crappy poster” is an ad hominem. “You’re a crappy poster” is just an insult.

    It’s an ad hominem because he insulted me instead of addressing my points.

  126. Sean C.
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard: Until proved wrong by the show and upcoming book, I am going to continue to believe that GoT will only adapt ASoI&F up to the end of TWoW, which will have some faux finales for many storylines, like false summits in the hiking world.

    Why would you think that, exactly? The writers got the outline of the entire series. They intend to use it, as they’ve said many times. And there’s no reason at all to believe TWOW is even structured like that, seeing as it was meant to be the “middle book” of a trilogy, more or less.

  127. Darquemode
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    Interesting…
    I wondered if the casting rumors that they were looking for a more “mixed race” Nymeria meant they were combining Sarella and Nymeria. So maybe it would play out like Nymeria taking Sarella’s arc in Oldtown, Obarra staying in Dorne, Tyenne going to King’s landing to work into the Sparrow arc, and then use Ellaria to take Nymeria’s seat in the Small Conucil?

    I think Oldtown could indeed end being very important in the books! That does not necessarily mean it will make the show though, D&D could maybe find a workaround to save on sets and budget etc.. Maybe combine Oldtown and White Harbor? Meh… I hope Oldtown makes the series!

  128. The SheBear
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

    This means that Dorne is becoming a huge part later in the books because otherwise it would make no sense to cast so many of them.

    I understand the fact of killing and cutting characters to wrap it in 7 seasons but please give us the Greyjoy uncles!!! I was sure they would include them but it sounds like they won’t :(

  129. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    clk,

    They did a guest post once before (helmed by the Greatjon Slumber) so it might happen again.

  130. Joe Frost
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

    Tyroshi Barber,

    Qunetyn’s chapters bored the piss out of me and when he got toasted I just thought what a waste of time! Sure they could burn the hell out of someone else. Daario would be my choice as he was annoying in the book and in the show even less interesting!
    I thought Kevan had already been introduced in Season 1? I mena he may be recast as it was a pretty minor appearance ( consulting with Tywin when they are at war with the North a couple of times). For me Kevan is a pretty important character as he tries to balance out Cersei and hold House Lannister together.

  131. clk
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    Yes, I remember, but it was before season 4, so a lot of things changed. They probably will do again.

  132. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    Joe Frost,

    First of all, use spoiler tags! Quentyn is necessary since he is essentially Doran’s plan. Without him “Vengeance, Justice, Fire and Blood” would mean jack shit. But that’s not to say that we need to follow Quebtyn around. As far as I’m concerned, we can see him for a couple of episodes in Subspear, then disappear on a ship and then appear in Dany’s court room after Doran’s reveal. There is also the possibility that they’ll combine Quentyn and Trystane.

  133. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

    clk,

    It could be their last chance before the show catches up to the books… Which is hilarious
    GRRM has well and truly fucked himself

  134. Palantirqueen
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    clk,

    I think you’ve come up with a great reason for Sam and co. to go to leave the Wall I was wondering how they’d do it without Mance Junior

    Plus considering it’s already in the credits, I think Braavos may be given increased importance in the show, rather than Oldtown.

  135. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    As opposed to the ad hominem attack you started with? You wrote:

    Have those fucking hacks even read the books? At this point I just don’t know

    Pot meet Kettle much?

    I don’t understand why people think it’s okay to call D&D all sorts of horrible names but when they’re challenged on it and get some personal vitriol back they run to their fainting couches. Can’t we all just get along?

  136. Delta1212
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    You didn’t make any points to address. You started with a strawman of D&D’s position on fantasy and then segued into personal attacks against that (for example, implying they haven’t read the books) are obviously false and as such must be rhetorical hyperbole not to be taken seriously.

    If you want someone to address a point instead of calling you a terrible poster, make a point with some substance instead of a terrible post.

  137. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.,

    Oh, don’t you think that GRRM has a little bit of LF in him? I think the long game is in his favor, regardless of what he has sold to HBO. HBO will not tell the ultimate finale before GRRM… (fingers-crossed)

    I cannot even imagine what S6/S7 and the reaction of millions of fans would be like without an e-book or book in hand. I think it would be ugly.

  138. house mormont
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    Yes that was so funny! Probably the first time I’d laughed when reading since Stannis thinking about Renly’s peach

  139. Sheriff Bullock
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    The comments about Varys pretty much confirm to me that he’s joining Aegon.

    But for the love of god will they just come out and say if we’re going to get Victarion and Euron already, the suspense is going to kill me.

  140. house mormont
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    Oh you sweet summer child

  141. Sean C.
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard:

    Oh, don’t you think that GRRM has a little bit of LF in him?

    Do I think GRRM is acting in bad faith with HBO and putting himself at risk of a huge lawsuit? No.

  142. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.: Do I think GRRM is acting in bad faith with HBO and putting himself at risk of a huge lawsuit?No.

    Oh? You’ve read the contract? So GRRM can’t write an 8th book if he wants? GRRM probably has many options available to him.

  143. The Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.: Do I think GRRM is acting in bad faith with HBO and putting himself at risk of a huge lawsuit?No.

    Exactly. It is just book readers who are upset and hoping the story is not told on television first. I understand why they are upset. Martin has let them down with his slow speed. However, they must realize that the real story will be told on television first. Perhaps not every story but certainly the major arcs of the major characters.

  144. The Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard: Oh? You’ve read the contract? So GRRM can’t write an 8th book if he wants? GRRM probably has many options to pursue.

    He can turn his saga into 10 books if he wants. But if he purposely tells them the wrong ending he is going to be in huge trouble. Not to mention that the show will be seen by more people then who read his books. So he would be doing himself and his legacy a huge disservice. There is no motivation him to change things and be deceitful.

  145. The Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    People need to keep in mind that if this show runs 7 seasons it means that we are likely to see no new characters for season 7 and only a few small additions for season 6. So if something is not added this season then it either has to be extremely important or it will be cut from the show.

  146. Veltigar
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ:
    Veltigar,

    As opposed to the ad hominem attack you started with?You wrote:

    Pot meet Kettle much?

    I don’t understand why people think it’s okay to call D&D all sorts of horrible names but when they’re challenged on it and get some personal vitriol back they run to their fainting couches.Can’t we all just get along?

    No, that was an actual question. You do realize what a major storyline Varys is a part of in the books right? I don’t see how their explanation meshes with that arc. And Varys arc is one they can’t cut. It’s to major for that to even work. It’s like the conclusion to the entire GoT part of the storyline

    Delta1212:
    Veltigar,

    You didn’t make any points to address. You started with a strawman of D&D’s position on fantasy and then segued into personal attacks against that (for example, implying they haven’t read the books) are obviously false and as such must be rhetorical hyperbole not to be taken seriously.

    If you want someone to address a point instead of calling you a terrible poster, make a point with some substance instead of a terrible post.

    Sigh, take your own advice. And read what I answered above. As to their stance on fantasy… Just watch at what they do to the complexity of this story, if you can’t come to the conclusion yourself after that, I’ll not waste time on it.

  147. Joe Frost
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    Apologies. Was used to posting in the spoilerless thread! Quentynes part to represent Doran trying to build an alliance with Dany could be just as effectively done without his travelling. As much as I dislike Quentyn as a character, if they’re including a bunch or sand snakes that do nothing and Areo ‘Camera with an axe’ Hotah then I guess his inclusion wouldn’t be the most unimportant. One way around it could be Doran pretending that he’s going to let Mycella and Trystane marry when really he’s planning on marrying him off to Dany and the Mycella thing is to keep people off the scent.

  148. GaiusB
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    If Varys will travel with Tyrion i doubt he will be back for assasinations, someone else could do it if those assasinations remains. We still not know if Kevan will be back and we will probably know Varys motivation already so it will not be really necessary to be him, who commit those murders.

    They could give it to Sand Snakes if they place it in season 6. It would give some Dornish characters first plot which not fail. If they keep it for season 5, Littlefinger could visit KL and continue his tradition of stealing material from other book characters. His motivation would be pretty much same as Varys.

  149. Delta1212
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    If you don’t want to waste time arguing in favor of a point to people who “can’t see it for themselves” then why are you even talking to anyone?

    Sighing and listing logical fallacies only gets you so far in lieu of an actual argument.

  150. Veltigar
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

    Delta1212:
    Veltigar,

    If you don’t want to waste time arguing in favor of a point to people who “can’t see it for themselves” then why are you even talking to anyone?

    Sighing and listing logical fallacies only gets you so far in lieu of an actual argument.

    …Because not all people refuse to acknowledge the shows flaws? And the “actual argument” is more than obvious enough, consider listing the logical fallacies as icing on the cake.

  151. wizardeyes
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    clk,

    You have some good ideas on how to cut down on new characters. Tormund can do Val’s stuff, Alliser can replace Bowen Marsh etc

    That would be quite the arc for Alliser – going from supporting Jon to stabbing him! The only thing is though that I feel like Alliser is more of a warrior and would challenge Jon to a fight if he wanted to kill him whereas Bowen Marsh was a steward – not a fighter.

    What do you think is going to happen with the whole baby swap thing? I thought maybe Shireen might be a replacement?

  152. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    The Bastard,
    Sean C.,
    house mormont,

    I’m pasting this convo into a log and printing it out. Come 2016 or 2017, I will buy you three a virtual case of Ommegang Castle Black Stout beer if this doesn’t work to GRRM’s favor somehow (lifespan or sickness not withstanding). I can’t imagine that the contract between GRRM and HBO would be written as such in order to threaten GRRM.

    I’m sort of sad that folks aren’t rooting for GRRM more as he expands and contracts his world.

  153. The Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar: …Because not all people refuse to acknowledge the shows flaws? And the “actual argument” is more than obvious enough, consider listing the logical fallacies as icing on the cake.

    We are watching a show about Dragons, Ice Zombies, Demon Shadow Babies, and a host of other stuff…. And you are worried about the smallest of small flaws?

    No show is perfect. Every show has flaws. This show has done a better job then almost any other show in the history of television of creating a world that magics logical sense despite the dragons and other stuff I mentioned above.

    So it does look silly when people try to complain. The show is amazing and yet some will never be happy with it.

  154. wizardeyes
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    GaiusB,

    I think that Varys will introduce Tyrion to Illyrio and they will have a very cryptic and fore-shadowing filled conversation before they send Tyrion off to meet Griff. Then we might get a scene or two of Varys & Illyrio plotting before Varys pops back up in King’s Landing to do some murders in the finale. It would just be silly if he went off travelling with Tyrion. That’s not his style at all.

  155. The Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard:
    The Bastard,
    Sean C.,
    house mormont,

    I’m pasting this convo into a log and printing it out. Come 2016 or 2017, I will buy you three a virtual case of Ommegang Castle Black Stout beer if this doesn’t work to GRRM’s favor somehow (lifespan or sickness not withstanding). I can’t imagine that the contract between GRRM and HBO would be written as such in order to threaten GRRM.

    I’m sort of sad that folks aren’t rooting for GRRM more as he builds and contracts his world.

    So you think Martin has spent 20 years working on a story just to not have it told properly on a different medium? Think for a moment what you are saying.

    Why do you think Tolkien’s son hates the movies so much? It is because they are not close enough to the source material. Personally I think he is overreacting but that should give you a sense of what writers want from their story.

    It would be shocking if Martin broke the mold and wanted his story told incorrectly just to spite people. It just doesn’t make sense.

  156. Sword of the Morning
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    My prediction for how the show will condense the Greyjoy storyline: Yara heads home upon hearing of Balon’s death. She only has one uncle to go against at the Kingsmoot: Euron. Euron becomes king, names Yara captain of the Iron Fleet, sends her to Meereen. Yara plans to forge an alliance with Dany herself instead of winning her for Euron. On the way, she stops in Volantis, and Tyrion and Jorah manage to convince her to let them tag along. Maybe with Moqorro. They all arrive in Meereen with enough time for Tyrion to be in the fighting pits when Dany flies out of there. This cuts Victarion (and the awesome scene taking the Shield Islands), Damphair, Penny, and the Stinky Steward.

  157. gianoshoes
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    Can’t wait for Dorne and Bravos. Doesn’t look like Jaime’s storyline is going the same place, so I’m sad there will be no Genna Lannister? Jaime scenes with her in the book was one of my favorites for some reason. But here’s hoping.
    Isn’t Bran’s storyline ended this season from Book 5?
    Here’s hoping Winds of Winter comes out in 2015

  158. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger:
    I wonder what they’re going to do with Aegon? I’m thinking Varys is going to replace Jon Con.Since they’re handing out jetpacks he can still get to KL to kill Kevan and Pycelle if they’re planning on keeping that in.

    There doesn’t seem to be any casting news regarding Aegon yet.It’s too early to assume he’s not in season 5 but I think it’s possible he can be pushed back to season 6.The emphasis on Dorne seems to indicate that the plot isn’t being cut entirely.

    What they can do is have Varys send Tyrion straight to Dany with no team Aegon involvement.At the end of season 5 the people in KL start hearing rumors of someone taking castles in the Stormlands.Then in season 6 we actually see it confirmed when Arianne goes to meet Aegon at storm’s end.

    That’s all highly speculative I know.

    Quoting myself because it took hours for them to take this post out of moderation and no one will see it up there now.

  159. jentario
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    I would support GRRM if he would have supported himself, but with or without my support he seems well and truly fucked by his tendency to not write at all half of the time and the fact that until a few months ago he actually still thought they could get the last two books into three seasons. It’s hard to support a sinking ship. When/if he proves himself capable (if he releases TWOW early in 2015), I will support him again. But certainly not now, when that seems nearly impossible. If he’ll need an 8th book, I’d be surprised if we ever see GRRM end the series (unless he somehow becomes a normal speed writer in the foreseeable future).

  160. Isabelle
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    Joe Frost: Glad Dorne is in but I want some reassurance on the Kingsmoot, Old and Young Griff and Oldtown.

    I think they partly answer this:

    Early in the season, when speaking with Tyrion, Varys claims to be concerned primarily with self preservation. At the end of the season, though, his actions prove otherwise. He throws away the entire life he’s built for himself in King’s Landing to save Tyrion’s life. Now what? … “Now what?” will become eminently clear in season 5.

    If what many people think is true about Varys and Team Blackfyre, Young Griff is definitely in.

  161. Veltigar
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    The Bastard: We are watching a show about Dragons, Ice Zombies, Demon Shadow Babies, and a host of other stuff…. And you are worried about the smallest of small flaws?

    No show is perfect. Every show has flaws. This show has done a better job then almost any other show in the history of television of creating a world that magics logical sense despite the dragons and other stuff I mentioned above.

    So it does look silly when people try to complain. The show is amazing and yet some will never be happy with it.

    If it was one small flaw we would hardly be complaining now would we… It’s more like a myriad of smaller flaws and a couple of huge shockers that just cheapen this story immensly.

    And this show is full of gaping logical gaps. The fact that “it’s the best of the shows that involve magic” is an odd thing to claim, since there aren’t many shows that have the same scope or intent as ASOIAF as far as I’m aware. GoT is high fantasy (and for a high fantasy, is surprisingly low on magic btw) and strives to be a real drama, not some fantasy adeventure show like Highlander or forgettable (yet enjoyable) urban fantasy romps like Grimm.

    GoT should be compared to things like the Wire, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Boardwalk Empire, Deadwood, Hannibal, the Sopranos, etc. the big hitters and there isn’t a show amongst those that doesn’t blow GoT out of the water.

    The showrunners actually pitched GoT as “LoTR meets the Sopranos”. It’s sadly very low on the Soprano part of the equation.

  162. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

    If any mods are reading this, can someone please make a post explaining why some posts go into a moderation. I made a post two hours ago and it finally went up but it’s so far up thread that now nobody will see it.

    I tried to quote myself to brink it back down here but that went into moderation.

    What was wrong with the post? It wasn’t all that long and every spoiler was tagged.

    If there are key words that send things into moderation can we please be told what they are so we can avoid them? Between posts getting eaten and having to put user name and emails in again every time the usability of this site is really taking a nose dive lately.

  163. Easteros bunny
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    Are you serious? Jamie is building a feck’n jet pack? I mean, the Disney ending of Arya on the boat was bad enough, now they want to bring in jet packs..

  164. Bard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Jet pack= Jaime will visit Dorne (spoiled by audition leaks) and the Riverlands in one season.

  165. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

    The Bastard:
    It would be shocking if Martin broke the mold and wanted his story told incorrectly just to spite people. It just doesn’t make sense.

    Oh, heck no. I just hope it is a win-win for the “legalists” on both sides.

    Scenario #1: GRRM finishes and publishes both TWoW and ADoS by Mar 2017

    Scenario #2: HBO is contracted to show the story through TWoW, which has agreed-upon faux-endings, with real endings saved for ADoS, published in 2018 or later.

    Scenario #3: Seasons 6 & 7 can only be associated minimally with the books as HBO incorporates dramatic license to rework the storylines. GRRM quietly distances himself from the show. “The books are the books and the show is the show.”

    Scenario #4: GRRM takes his money and moves to the Summer Islands, never to be heard from again, other than through anthologies and short agonizing stories about the Targs. Fans be damned.

    Like I’ve mentioned many times before, I’m a fatally-flawed optimist.

  166. clk
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

    wizardeyes,

    I think that this storyline won’t happen. It was cool in the book, but in the book we have Dalla, Val and the baby. There would be no sense in replacing the baby for Shireen, maybe they bring Shireen with them too, but I dont think so. Why would be the purpouse of that change? I think that in Melisandre’s talk with Selyse in this season she didn’t mean burning Shireen, but making sure she is alive because maybe she has a future important role in the Wall(and this is in WoW or even aDoS).

  167. ColdPie
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    would make for a cool ending to an episode to have a montage of Tyrion, Victarion and Quentyn (Trystane) arriving at Meereen

  168. Hollyoak
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

    You know the thing that’s weird? D&D will never get the pleasure of reading the final books without being spoiled. Sure, they’ll read them, but they won’t have the same experience we will.

    They know the end-game already.

    Imagine how tight-lipped they have to be.

  169. Sean C.
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard: Oh? You’ve read the contract? So GRRM can’t write an 8th book if he wants? GRRM probably has many options available to him.

    Martin can write as many books as he pleases. But unless he’s going to fundamentally revise the key points of the end of his story, the show is still going to spoil the basics of his ending. Martin has been working on his story since 1991. The broad outlines of it and the fates of the main characters have been fixed for a long time; he’s said as much, many times, and I don’t think there’s any chance he’s going to change what is essentially his life’s work just to be different from the TV show. The subplots and added characters may continue to balloon, but that’s ultimately more middle, which the show will just streamline or avoid altogether, to get to the ending.

    Hodor’s Bastard:
    Scenario #2: HBO is contracted to show the story through TWoW, which has agreed-upon faux-endings, with real endings saved for ADoS, published in 2018 or later.

    You’re aware that the producers have explicitly debunked this scenario, right? And why would HBO ever do that, in any event? What do they gain by not telling the full story that they paid for?

  170. jkb
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    the thought of GRRM and D&D figuring out an alternative story route for the later season crossed my mind as well. i love the show but I really, really don’t like the thought of seeing the ending on TV first. i don’t know… but i’m hoping GRRM has something up his sleeve. i mean, he had to know the show will overtake him right? he might not care though.

  171. Joe Frost
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    Isabelle,

    I hope Varys literally introduces Tyrion to Illerio, Griff, Young Griff,etc and then leaves them to it. I see no need for him to travel any further than Pentos as there is no reason for him doing so and it would mess up the killing of Pycelle and Kevan

  172. Sean C.
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

    jkb:
    i mean, he had to know the show will overtake him right?

    He sold the rights back in 2007 or so, back when ADWD was supposed to be out “next year”. And until very, very recently he was talking about AFFC/ADWD being made into three seasons.

  173. Willem Wolfsblood
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

    ” the end to Georges saga is absolutely, 100 percent satisfying.” Me likey this quote.

  174. Magnus
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

    Please give us Euron! And while you`re at it, cast Daniel-Day Lewis. As unlikely as it is, imagine the in-depth and dramatic emotional performance he would bring to the most insane and mysterious player in ASOIAF

  175. jkb
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    Sean C.: And until very, very recently he was talking about AFFC/ADWD being made into three seasons.

    i that case he must have also thought the entire series will be 10+ seasons… well i suppose it’s totally possible he didn’t think this through enough and simply fucked up.

  176. LittleFlower
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    ColdPie:
    would make for a cool ending to an episode to have a montage of Tyrion, Victarion and Quentyn (Trystane) arriving at Meereen

    I like this idea!

  177. Jackol
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    Scenario #4: GRRM takes his money and moves to the Summer Islands, never to be heard from again, other than through anthologies and short agonizing stories about the Targs. Fans be damned.

    I have long felt that GRRM has actually lost enthusiasm for ASOIAF.

    Obviously there was a big change in quality for AFFC and ADWD – I liked them both, but there is no question that they simply don’t have the zeal for a finely crafted story that the first 3 books had.

    And, of course, there’s the stupidly long time between books that has been increasingly apparent.

    GRRM’s various statements about what will be finished when, and how many seasons of the TV show the various books will take, show a lack of realism in assessing the state of the novels. To me that just adds to the picture of someone who just can’t come to grips with the fact that his energy for something he has worked on for so long has run out, and going through the motions of pushing out the end of the story is proving too hard or too dispiriting.

    GRRM has many other interests in his writing. I can well imagine that he finds it frustrating to be constantly reduced to just being the author of ASOIAF when he really just wants to be free to enjoy life and write what he is actually excited to write and work on what he wants to work on.

    I can well imagine that he does not end up finishing the books at all if his health doesn’t hold up or when the crushing realization hits that his story has been told by someone else, and undoubtedly not in the way he wanted it to be told.

    But I agree that that has been a clear risk from the start of the TV adaptation process and ultimately he only has himself to blame. If he didn’t have the drive to finish the books … that’s life, really. It is what it is.

  178. Sundancer
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

    That’s exactly what I thought. She has a navy now – no need to capture the Iron Fleet.

  179. Ghost
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

    If they weren’t planning on casting any Greyjoy uncles, why save Balons death until season 5? They could have threw in an extra scene where Asha stops either before or after the Dreadfort and finds out that her father fell off a bridge. His death could be off screen like it was in the books. I think that we at least get Euron this season.

    I think that it’s very likely that we get Aegon next season. Teora Tolands dragon dreams hint at another Dance of Dragons.

    I wonder if they’re going to recast Rickon when he eventually returns.

  180. ct
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

    I have a feeling they will kill off Jorah. Have him replace Penny in the fighting pit, and then when Drogon lands he’ll rip off his bear costume and try to “save” Dany before getting ripped apart. Not that I’d want him to die, but I’m almost certain Daznak will be the ninth and they need to implement a good shock.

  181. Dio Westeros
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar: If it was one small flaw we would hardly be complaining now would we… It’s more like a myriad of smaller flaws and a couple of huge shockers that just cheapen this story immensly.

    And this show is full of gaping logical gaps. The fact that “it’s the best of the shows that involve magic” is an odd thing to claim, since there aren’t many shows that have the same scope or intent as ASOIAF as far as I’m aware. GoT is high fantasy (and for a high fantasy, is surprisingly low on magic btw) and strives to be a real drama, not some fantasy adeventure show like Highlander or forgettable (yet enjoyable) urban fantasy romps like Grimm.

    GoT should be compared to things like the Wire, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Boardwalk Empire, Deadwood, Hannibal, the Sopranos, etc. the big hitters and there isn’t a show amongst those that doesn’t blow GoT out of the water.

    The showrunners actually pitched GoT as “LoTR meets the Sopranos”. It’s sadly very low on the Soprano part of the equation.

    Fantasy involves more than magic. There are numerous elements/themes that make this an absolute High Fantasy series. It may be lacking the overwhelming use of magic (unlike LOTR/Harry Potter) but there are so many other things making this High Fantasy. I dont understand why you make it as if magic is the only element making something High Fantasy… there are many others this show uses continuously.

    As far as knocking the show… Making it like GOT is some petty insignificance compared to the Sopranos… Right. Check the reviews, check the ratings, check the viewership numbers. GOT is #1. Stop watching the show with a checklist of things done wrong and just enjoy the ride. I have read every book numerous times. I would do things differently if I made the show but you treat this like some 1 star entity that exists for 2 episodes then gets axed. This show is amazing television when you watch it for what it is… not for what you wish it was.

  182. A Stranger
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

    When Mr. Martin provided inside info a year ago it became readily apparent to all that the Kingsmoot and Greyjoy storyline would be immensely difficult to do. They cannot cast Euron, because Euron is already on screen.

  183. Gatorfisch
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

    DORNE!!!!!!!

  184. The Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard: Oh, heck no. I just hope it is a win-win for the “legalists” on both sides.

    Scenario #1: GRRM finishes and publishes both TWoW and ADoS by Mar 2017

    Scenario #2: HBO is contracted to show the story through TWoW, which has agreed-upon faux-endings, with real endings saved for ADoS, published in 2018 or later.

    Scenario #3: Seasons 6 & 7 can only be associated minimally with the books as HBO incorporates dramatic license to rework the storylines. GRRM quietly distances himself from the show. “The books are the books and the show is the show.”

    Scenario #4: GRRM takes his money and moves to the Summer Islands, never to be heard from again, other than through anthologies and short agonizing stories about the Targs. Fans be damned.

    Like I’ve mentioned many times before, I’m a fatally-flawed optimist.

    Scenario #5: GRRM already gave D&D the info on how the story ends and now just needs to keep on feeding them what he has finished or help fill in the gaps when the time comes.

  185. The Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

    A Stranger:
    When Mr. Martin provided inside info a year ago it became readily apparent to all that the Kingsmoot and Greyjoy storyline would be immensely difficult to do. They cannot cast Euron, because Euron is already on screen.

    I’ve always wondered that as well. Not just for Euron, but for other characters as well. Television is very different then the books. They ran into this problem with Selmy. They couldn’t make it last as long like in the books. Once he appeared, people knew who he was instantly.

  186. Darquemode
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    Sundancer,

    Exactly what I was thinking..
    It makes me wonder if the mysterious Dragon Horn will ever come into play on the TV series, because if not, do they really need the Greyjoy Uncles? Two of the most important aspects of the Greyjoy uncles are the horn and the Iron Fleet (which Dany no longer needs).

    I still hope we get at least Euron, but…. the longer we do not hear about casting some one in the Iron Island arc, the less optimistic I am.

  187. tdraicer
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    >Have those fucking hacks even read the books? At this point I just don’t know

    I just love it when people without talent or accomplishment attack two brilliant writer/producers who have achieved one of the most amazing dramatic adaptations in history as “fucking hacks” because they didn’t recreate whatever stupid impractical vision those people carry around in their heads. They don’t deserve this show, and I hope D&D continue to disappoint them.

  188. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    The Bastard: Scenario #5: GRRM already gave D&D the info on how the story ends and now just needs to keep on feeding them what he has finished or help fill in the gaps when the time comes.

    I would love to see that in the contract! That would be a recipe for disaster, imho. I wish I could negotiate my software design contracts that way.

    I wonder if GRRM signed the contract before or after his Meereenese Knot days? Can’t wait until HBO has to deal with his upcoming Oldtownian Knot!

  189. The Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard: I would love to see that in the contract! That would be a recipe for disaster, imho. I wish I could negotiate my software design contracts that way.

    I wonder if GRRM signed the contract before or after his Meereenese Knot days? Can’t wait until HBO has to deal with his upcoming Oldtownian Knot!

    GRRM’s knots have occurred because of the point of view writing style of ASOIAF. It worked great for the first 3 books. We got wonderful insight into the characters and it made for a near perfect 1st trilogy.

    The problem is came when he had to start ending the series. In order to do this, he had to keep adding characters due to this point of view style. Now he has like 20 character point of views he is trying to juggle and everything is out of control.

    I do believe he knows how he wants to end it. He just has no clue how to get there based on the limitations he put on his own work.

    We won’t ever see him finish the series.

  190. Quiddity
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    Cross them all out, here’s what’s happening:

    TV show passes the books and spoils the ending. Perhaps not for WOW, but definately for DOS and if GRRM writes a book 8, that too.

    GRRM whines and complains about it, but ultimately has no one but himself to blame.

  191. davyJones
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    While I enjoy some of the original content like Talisa, Yoren’s talk with Arya, Blackwater @ night, Robb’s expanded story- most of the shows best comes from sticking close to the source material. Its ironic the GRRM’s hate for fanfic is what D&D plan to do with the story post season 5. If we get to the point that the show and the book are just so different then whats the point? I understand that they need to keep their top actors on screen for as long as possible (Jamie teleporting to Dorne) but if it cuts his actual story in the Riverlands then whats the point of all this.

  192. The Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

    davyJones:
    While I enjoy some of the original content like Talisa, Yoren’s talk with Arya, Blackwater @ night, Robb’s expanded story- most of the shows best comes from sticking close to the source material. Its ironic the GRRM’s hate for fanfic is what D&D plan to do with the story post season 5. If we get to the point that the show and the book are just so different then whats the point? I understand that they need to keep their top actors on screen for as long as possible (Jamie teleporting to Dorne) but if it cuts his actual story in the Riverlands then whats the point of all this.

    How is it fan fiction after Season 5? GRRM sat down with D&D for a week to go over each character through the rest of the series. That is anything but fan fiction.

    The books have so many characters and story lines that the show has to condense them. This means story lines will change.

    The main events of the books have almost all been the same. D&D just find different ways to get there. It is like reading the books, only without the 400+ pages of filler….

  193. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

    The Bastard,

    SweetRobin: Make the pessimist fly!
    Sansa: Shut up before I smack you again!
    SweetRobin: But he is a bad man!
    Sansa: [smack!]
    GRRM: Hey, little bird, take it easy on the little guy.
    Sansa: Shut up and write me another fucking chapter! I haven’t had anything to do in 9 years!

  194. Josla
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

    A Stranger:
    When Mr. Martin provided inside info a year ago it became readily apparent to all that the Kingsmoot and Greyjoy storyline would be immensely difficult to do. They cannot cast Euron, because Euron is already on screen.

    Whatever you mean he’s on screen? Am I missing something here?

  195. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    Dio Westeros: Fantasy involves more than magic.There are numerous elements/themes that make this an absolute High Fantasy series.It may be lacking the overwhelming use of magic (unlike LOTR/Harry Potter) but there are so many other things making this High Fantasy.I dont understand why you make it as if magic is the only element making something High Fantasy… there are many others this show uses continuously.

    As far as knocking the show… Making it like GOT is some petty insignificance compared to the Sopranos… Right.Check the reviews,check the ratings,check the viewership numbers.GOT is #1.Stop watching the show with a checklist of things done wrong and just enjoy the ride.I have read every book numerous times.I would do things differently if I made the show but you treat this like some 1 star entity that exists for 2 episodes then gets axed.This show is amazing television when you watch it for what it is… not for what you wish it was.

    There’s an “overwhelming use of magic” in LOTR? Methinks you have not read those books. The use of “magic” appears sparingly, and is mostly limited to Gandalf, Frodo (via the One Ring) and a few of the elven lords and ladies, who employ a subtle sort of magic (via their own rings) that creates elven sanctuaries in Middle Earth (Lorien, Rivendell). But apart from that, there’s very, very little magic use in LOTR. Much less than in ASOIAF, I would say.

  196. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

    I believe the need for Victarion’s 93 ships has been replaced by the captured Meerenese Navy. However, this does not mean the Iron Born will not play some kind of a role. Balon needs to die, and Yara’s humiliation at the Dreadfort is likely to have consequences. Plus, we have some medium-strong rumors of a Kingsmoot location (even though the source of this rumor seems to have suggested that filming for season 5 has already begun…) He may have meant to say that location scouting was already underway, which we know is true…

    Perhaps Dany loses the Navy as Meereen falls apart, and Victarion or Euron will inadvertently come to the rescue?

    We just need an interviewer to ask D&D the question directly. “Are the Greyjoy uncles in?”

  197. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    Josla: Whatever you mean he’s on screen? Am I missing something here?

    It’s a bit of a sneaky theory centered around the number 93. Daario mentioned that he has secured 93 ships for Dany with the Second Sons. According to the theorists, that is the same # of ships that Euron sailed off with in the “Iron Suitor” chapter in ADwD. But the theory is flaky because Vic sailed with those 93 ships, not Euron, and half of them didn’t make it to Meereen. In any case, some say Daario = Euron.

  198. Ser Pounce
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 11:37 pm | Permalink

    I’ve had it with this motherfucking show. They absolutely ruined all the one liners, and internal monologue scenes. Yes the only reason ASOIAF is awesome is because that one line my favorite character said. Fuck the show viewers they don’t mean anything because they know nothing and they are sweet summer children. They better not leave the Iron Born out of the story because I’m looking forward to that scene where Victarions men sodomize Maester Kerwin. fuck you..fuck you…your cool..fuck you I’m out.

    Rant Over

  199. johnnytata
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 11:40 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar: If it was one small flaw we would hardly be complaining now would we… It’s more like a myriad of smaller flaws and a couple of huge shockers that just cheapen this story immensly.

    And this show is full of gaping logical gaps. The fact that “it’s the best of the shows that involve magic” is an odd thing to claim, since there aren’t many shows that have the same scope or intent as ASOIAF as far as I’m aware. GoT is high fantasy (and for a high fantasy, is surprisingly low on magic btw) and strives to be a real drama, not some fantasy adeventure show like Highlander or forgettable (yet enjoyable) urban fantasy romps like Grimm.

    GoT should be compared to things like the Wire, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Boardwalk Empire, Deadwood, Hannibal, the Sopranos, etc. the big hitters and there isn’t a show amongst those that doesn’t blow GoT out of the water.

    The showrunners actually pitched GoT as “LoTR meets the Sopranos”. It’s sadly very low on the Soprano part of the equation.

    dude. what the fuck are you even talking about?

    you sound like a fucking loony tune.

    why are you even watching if you hate this so much? masochist?

    i’ll just never get why people put themselves through this…unless they somehow get their rocks off on this specific type of argument, which then becomes nothing but a self indulgent narcissistic intellectual masturbation.

  200. Greyjoy Calamari
    Posted June 18, 2014 at 11:43 pm | Permalink

    Please news on Greyjoy uncles. Show Jaqen kill Balon on the bridge early, then kingsmoot, then attacking The Reach, the Vic get Moqorro/Yara gets captured&meets Theon.

    Ironborn attacking the reach could also add tension to the Tyrell/Lannister alliance in King’s Landing & Westerosi chaos under Cersie’s rule. Maybe Loras goes & gets disfigured fighting them instead?

  201. manashima
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 1:08 am | Permalink

    Im hoping the reason Dany captured the ships wasnt to get rid of the Victarion, but rather the Iron Fleet. Victarion will travel with 1 ship rather than 93(Much cheaper CGI). The Horn is still needed, the Fleet however could stay with Euron in Oldtown(cant be cut come on people, Samwells whole storyline revolves around this scenario)

  202. Tatters
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 1:21 am | Permalink

    Easteros bunny,

    Disney ending was perfect, and yes Jaime is flying around this year.

  203. FreyJoy
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 1:22 am | Permalink

    So here is my ending:

    Jon Snow, Dany, and Tyrion die. Robin Arryn sits the iron throne.Reek will be his hand. He will have a harem consisting of the stark sisters, brienne, Yara and varys. All of this is so obvious, I cannot believe no one predicted this yet.

  204. Daniellica
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 2:00 am | Permalink

    I’m sure someone’s posted a link to this somewhere by now, but did anyone else catch GRRM reading “Gay of Thrones” at the end of the last episode of Gay of Thrones?

    Awesome.

  205. Greenjones
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 2:22 am | Permalink
  206. nym sabd
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 2:25 am | Permalink

    nothing about the north story !! the boltons and the freys ? and the fake wedding ? wyman mandrly ? stannis VS winterfell ?

    I am happey to hear about the jetpack joke thats mean although Jaime is replaycing balon swan thats dosnt mean he will not reach the river lands in time

  207. nym sand
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 2:36 am | Permalink

    and also !!! they will not cut varys and make him disapear like affc and adwd !! and we will know about his next move is that a clear evidanc that we will see griff and young griff in s5 ???

  208. Troublesome Birdsong
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 3:30 am | Permalink

    For those saying that Varys traveling with Tyrion down the Rhoyne is going to mess up him killing Kevan/Pycelle, I’ll remind you that happens in the epilogue of ADWD, literally the last published chapter (excluding the teasers for TWOW). If there’s one thing we’ve learned from season 4, it’s not to assume that the book epilogue will automatically be shown at the end of the season.

    The Golden Company land in Westeros even before Cersei does her walk of shame, so, if Varys travels back with them, there’s plenty of time for him to hear about that and get back to King’s Landing to do the deed. Not to mention the only reason he even comes out of hiding again is because Kevan reasserts himself and looks like he’s going to undo Cersei’s mistakes. While Cersei is in power mid-season screwing everything over, Varys is hardly going to go, “well, better head back to King’s Landing as soon as possible just so I can kill Kevan.” Kevan’s not even in King’s Landing at that point. They call him back once Cersei is imprisoned.

  209. Balerion The Cat
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 3:36 am | Permalink

    Greenjones,

    I was just about to post that, amazing work. Those CGI arrows looked really good. I hope we’ll get a featurette with how they did the battle at the Wall :)
    I love these things!

  210. jentario
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 3:46 am | Permalink

    manashima,

    Interesting thought

  211. Lou Reed
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 3:49 am | Permalink

    My guess for season 5.

    Stannis and Jon Snow
    Cerseis madhouse/faith militant
    Daenerys, pit fighting, Yunkai siege, dragon riding, Quentin roast
    Dorne, Sand Snakes, Myrcella
    Tyrion, Varys, Aegon, Jorah
    Sansa and Littlefinger
    Bran, cave, visions, warging, communicating with Theon
    Boltons and Reek, wedding at Winterfel
    Arya

    Minor stories
    Sam, Gilly, Aemon boat trip
    Brienne, Pod
    Yara

    Doubtful
    Riverlands, Brotherhood, Blackfish, Euron, Victarion, LS, Bronn, Val, Female Dwarf(was it Penny?), Connington (Varys will take his place), Arianne(3 Sand Snakes is enough, and one of them will cover her part in the story)

  212. jentario
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 3:52 am | Permalink

    Troublesome Birdsong,

    Yeah, I agree

  213. Ludo
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 3:58 am | Permalink

    Carne,

    Why should they include Oldtown you say ? Maybe because there is the Citadel in it ? And that the Citadel is going to become extremely important in the last two books ?

    That’s what I find funny here. Lots of people say that this character or this place are fillers, because they have not been used so much in the books for now. But there are two last books where maybe these characters/locations are going to become very important. You DON’T KNOW ANYTHING, so why not stopping to make assumptions like this ?

  214. Cookie
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 4:21 am | Permalink

    Veltigar: Doubt it with their trackrecord. Everyone remembers LF’s jetpack in season 2 right? Or that of Brienne and Pod this season.

    That argument with LF is brought up again and again and again and it really strikes me as a bunch of baloney.

    I mean, seriously: Catelyn travels from Winterfell to Kings Landing to the Inn At The Crossroads to the Eyrie in the space of what… 3 Episodes? Granted, that first part of her journey was by boat, but still. I´ve never seen anyone criticizing this, be it in the books or in the first Season.

    Sure, the viewer/reader doesn´t get much of an in-universe timeframe for this stuff, but if you compare the traveling in Season 1/Book 1 to Lokes, Melisandres, LF or Briennes travel time it seems more or less consistent to me. It´s not like there are much points of reference that the viewer can point out to discern that “XY had to travel 2000 miles in four days to come this far”. Tywin getting from Harrenhal to Kings Landing in two Days beeing the only exception i can see (and as far as i´m concerned, that is a plot hole).

    But the others in question? They sure as hell didn´t travel farther than Cat in a comparable “Episode time”.

    Stuff like this really puzzles me. It seems to me, that as long as it fits book canon most people don´t have a problem to suspend their disbelief, but as soon as it comes to invented storylines suddenly everything has to stand up to much higher scrutiny and people start throwing around platitudes like “gaping holes in the story”. Give me a break.

  215. NomadicDirewolf
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 5:18 am | Permalink

    The Jaime’s jetpack remark is a hopeful one, it suggests he will be moving about between more than 2 places next season. Looks like we might get him in Dorne, then some of his riverlands plotline as well.
    I do actually agree that when you try and fit all the content of aFfC and aDwD into one season, you have quite an eventful season, so I remain cautiously optimistic about the quality of next season, once you I get past all the changes from the books that they will inevitably have to make

  216. Dame of Mercia
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 5:22 am | Permalink

    The Loon:
    jentario,

    or they’ve already cast her…I know the casting call from a while back didn’t mention her but that doesn’t mean she’s out…heck, they had Oberyn cast well before last season ended and they announced it shortly after (June 28th)…just like I doubt the Greyjoy uncles are out, maybe 1 or 2, but there is a big plot point at the end of Dance that requires at least one of them…also we have the last leech hanging over the show that needs resolving

    From what I recall last year, the only firm announcements the Powers-that-Be made concerning casting were Oberyn, the Magnar and Mace Tyrrell. There were in fact more characters cast for Season 4, albeit not really major ones (unless they become more important later on). It’s possible, I agree, we might see more characters cast than has been announced thus far for Season 5.

    Veltigar, I’m sorry you are so disenchanted with the current state of the adaptation of the books to the small screen. I’ve just started listening to AFFC and am about 4 chapters in but don’t want to say too much in case I spoil anything for people with no book knowledge. Obviously I can’t second-guess what the writers are going to do next season but if Arianne is Doran’s heir she seems important and not a sensible character to cut, but who knows? It has crossed my mind that the information GRRM has given the writers about the as yet unpublished books may have affected the decisions they made in the adaptation process. I have wondered if GRRM’s heart is not in the ASOIAF series anymore. Of course it’s part of the human condition that sometimes enthusiasm for a topic can dry up so a person can go off and do something else for a time to revitalise their juices. I wonder why he didn’t concentrate on the main story and get that out of the way and THEN go back to do the Dunk and Egg stories. I don’t think people trolling him on the subject helps though. Unless I find I hate the show next season, I am a person who will continue to watch it if it overtakes the books. I haven’t liked every change that has been made to the original story – in fact some of them have been downright silly (Pod the Stud comes to mind). Still there’s no point in watching something if you DON’T like it, so you must do what is right for you.

  217. Greenjones
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 5:30 am | Permalink

    Some folks on AFOIAF said that Michelle MacLaren is coming back to direct four episodes in s5. I haven’t got a source from any of them yet though, can anyone here verify that?

  218. GaiusB
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 5:41 am | Permalink

    Aegon, LS and Oldtown i believe are all in. There is too much set up for them to not be there. Why would they spend so much time with Sam and Gilly if they did not planned to include their travels. Not to mention Aemon, Sarella and Jaqen are involved that plot could be important in last 2 books.
    LS existence hugely influence stories of Jaime, Brienne, Pod and Brotherhood, why so much development for Pod and where would story go without her.
    With so much Dorne in season 5, and with Elia Sand already mentioned (she will first show up in book 6 traveling to Aegon), with all Varys plans that have to go somewhere i do not see D+D cutting him off. They are very keen to keep major plot points even if road to those points is often quite different from books.

    On other hand I can see Ironborns will get bare minimum. Kingsmoot with only one uncle to replace Balon. Any boat battles and travelesque with ironborn characters will be cut. It will be suprising adaptation choice, but it seems Arianne and Quentin are cut. Though i can see why they would do it.
    Quentin. They will not do travelesque with new character and his extras followers, and to let Quentin show suddenly in Mereen, yes it could work after fire and blood speech but he would still be an unknown nobody care about. To replace him with Trystane who is in love with Myrcella only to be rejected by Dany and burned by dragons is stronger story telling. Though i am not sure how a timing could work.
    Arianne. She seem to be main character, but she create few problems. She overshadow Sand Snakes who could eventually acomplish more in the following books. There is lot of internal struggle about her place as Dorne heir, which is not so good material for TV audience as opposite to Sand Snakes revenge for Oberyn. There is only so much screen time to flesh dornish characters. Nymeria and Tyene are going to KL, while Arianne is going to Aegon. I can see why would would D+D prioritize Nym and Tyenne over Arianne because all these reasons. It actualy very easy to replace her. Elia will travel to Aegon with Ellaria, Tyenne already got seductive trait, Trystane would be one bitching to Doran about mariagge he want and after he dies in Mereen, Dorne will get a female heir afterall even without Arianne by legitimizing of Sand Snakes.

  219. razha
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 6:17 am | Permalink

    GaiusB,
    Concerning the Dorne /Trystane /Quentyn timing
    I think combining Trystane with quentyn is a possible option – they can have the entire Myrcella crowning plot in the first half of the season – and have Doran dispatch Trystane to the East somewhere around episode 5, end of epp8 he appears at Dannys court,epp-9 has both Danny refusing marrying him and daznak pit at the end, ep-10 trystan being burned –

  220. G_Lee
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 6:30 am | Permalink

    It’s awesome that the EW interview links to wic.net :D

  221. FreyJoy
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 6:59 am | Permalink

    My non-book based predictions, based on the interview:

    Jon Snow, Danaerys and Tyrion die.

    Robin Arryn will sit on the iron throne and have multiple wives: Sansa , Yara, Margaery, Myrcella, Shireen, some vague Tully, One of the Dorne Girls, and Varys (for the Targaryens).

    Melissandre will marry one of the Thenns and open a cannabilistic bbq restaurant.

    Best theory I have heard so far if I may selfishly say so.

  222. Joe Frost
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    The only things we can absolutely guarantee we will see are boobs and death!

  223. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    Greenjones: Some folks on AFOIAF said that Michelle MacLaren is coming back to direct four episodes in s5. I haven’t got a source from any of them yet though, can anyone here verify that?

    Looks like the person who said that at Westeros is now saying they made a mistake, they misread some article.

  224. Ronin
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    I just hope they don’t cut any Dorne characters

  225. jentario
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    Ronin,

    Prepare yourself for the potential cutting of Arianne.

  226. SMalicett
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    It is possible that we would see the seasons 6 & 7 before the launch of the books??
    2015 season 5 – AFFC & ADWD
    2016 season 6 – Winds
    2017 season 7 – Dreams

    it would be awful if we cant finish the books before the series…

    And i think LS is a vital point in the Brienne and Jaime storyline… if I’m good, brienne has to kill Jaime in Winds, because of the judge of LS… if there is no LS, why brienne would change his intentions?

  227. Zack
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    “Best season yet” is a bit unlikely seeing as there’s no Oberyn, but I can see it coming in at number two.

    I don’t understand the constant freakouts over changes to the books. Judge the show as a show. Offing Jojen won’t change anything big, for instance.

    So season 5…I think at this point the difference between readers and non is gonna shrink a great deal. Feast and Dance have enough plot in them to make for a fantastic season or so of TV, they just needed an editor unafraid to tell GRRM to do some cutting. B&W will fill that role, and it’s going to mean readers can never be sure what to expect. I like it.

  228. Chris
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    RBloodworth,

    Actually, this is not a bad guess. Interesting.

  229. Violentos
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    What I like going into Season 5 as a book reader is that they’re going to be combining the story of books 4 and 5 together as the timelines both coexist at the same points. This means that with so much material to work with we wont know what’s going to be covered in each episode now. Incoming surprises!

    I truly hope that they decide to include Stoneheart after all. But the more I think about how it contributes to the story so far overall, I could see why they wanted to exclude her and avoid bringing back an amazing actress just to glare menacingly through a black hood. Not to mention the costs of hiring her back for a season or two just for that.

  230. TonyGen
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    It is possible that we would see the seasons 6 & 7 before the launch of the books??
    it would be awful if we cant finish the books before the series…

    I don’t understand how anyone has not LONG realized the show is going to finish before Martin releases “A Dream of Spring”.

    Sure we should get TWOW before the major plot points are spoiled by the show (ie before S6 airs), but it is blatantly obvious the ending of the saga is going to show on TV before Martin publishes. To think otherwise is a blatant denial of reality.

  231. Kris
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    I want LS and Michelle Fairley! Screw the cost!

  232. Kris
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    Has everyone forgotten about the Riverrun/Frey storyline? Edmure, Blackfish, etc.?

  233. Sunfyre
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    jentario:
    Ronin,

    Prepare yourself for the potential cutting of Arianne.

    Hope that’s not the case. But if they go that route they gotta have some kind of plan in mind. They wouldn’t cut such a prominent POV character just for the sake of cutting (especially since we know they’re going all in on Dorne).

  234. Joe Frost
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    Sunfyre,

    I’d be amazed if Arianne isn’t in. The Sand Snakes will fill the roles of her fellow conspirators I think. Areoh Hotah is a pointless addition to the cast and I feel is just done for ethnic diversity (always pictured him as a kind od Russian type figure but whatever, his ethnicity isn’t a big deal as he’s so minor).

    I do worry that having read all teh books so far , I still have no clear idea of what teh end game is going to be. Everything still feels quite spread out and isn’t coming together quickly enough for it to finish in two books. God Bless Aegon for at least coming to Westeros whilst his aunt dicks about in Slavers Bay.

    I still hold out that a season or mini-season detailing the events surrounding Robert’s Rebellion would not just give more time for George to finish the books but would be pretty important to establish an flesh out characters who are vital to the finale and overall sotry in general. Most show watchers have no idea who Rhaegar, Lyanna and the Mad King are and this is tragic especially if L+R= J is a revelation. People will just be like…”oh…I don’t know who they are” so it loses it’s impact.

  235. mariamb
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    Sunfyre: Hope that’s not the case.But if they go that route they gotta have some kind of plan in mind.They wouldn’t cut such a prominent POV character just for the sake of cutting (especially since we know they’re going all in on Dorne).

    I hope not also and I honestly don’t understand why that would happen. Arianne is more interesting that any of the Sand Snakes and serves a larger purpose in the story that the Sand Snakes cannot fulfill.

    I think that all of this concern is premature.

  236. Turncloak
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    Kris,

    It’s not just about the cost. You have to take consideration if Michelle Fairley is even willing to come back to play that role. She might not be. And it wouldn’t work to have a different actress in that role

  237. fuelpagan
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    Sunfyre,

    Including Arianne depends on how much her character contributes to the story. GRRM might be using her POV as an unreliable narrator. In this case, what she witnesses and is exposed to is more important than the character itself and she would be cut. The camera serves that function already.

    Only if her character becomes important to the story later would she be cast. I might be wrong, but I feel that her POV is simply a way to follow Dorne’s action. I think she’ll be cut, but I’ll be happy if she isn’t. If she is mentioned at all next season, she may show up in a later season.

  238. jentario
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    Joe Frost,

    If R+L=J and they intend to follow that route, I think they will definitely set it up accordingly. Bran could be a great flashback device in the coming seasons, for instance. And the Three Eyed Crow being a Targaryen and all would probably have something to say (and show?) about Robert’s Rebellion.

  239. jentario
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    mariamb,

    I hope you’re right, but Trystane, the Sand Snakes and potentially Ellaria (one of the Sand Snakes said “mother” in an audition) are all seemingly assuming Arianne’s role from the books. I can hardly see how there’s room for Arianne to mastermind it all.

  240. jentario
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    But she has already doine important things, and for some reason D&D are giving other people her actions (if she is indeed cut) instead of giving her other people’s actions. It makes little sense to cut her.

  241. fuelpagan
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

    jentario,

    There is a difference between the action being important, and who performs the action being important. Bran needs to be pushed out a window…anyone other than Jaime performing this action will change the story. Jaime needs his hand cut off…doesn’t matter if it is Vargo Hoat or Locke.

    If D&D are including the sand snakes over Arianne, that tells me the sand snakes have more to contribute right now to the story. If Arianne is needed later if Doran should die, they can introduce her later and just include a couple of passing references next season. D&D could change the character the way they did with Jeyne/Talisa and have her start out as calculating. Rather than her start out a sand snake wannabe and grow into Doran’s daughter. But I wouldn’t be shocked if they cut her altogether.

  242. Tyroshi Barber
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    Do you think it’s likely that the whole Ironborn storyline of AFFC/ADWD will be postponed to Season 6?

    Then the viewers have time to get to know all the new Dornish characters in Season 5. It makes the overwhelming of new characters not that big in S5.

    Episode 6.1 Balon’s death – Kingsmoot
    Episode 6.2 Victarion on his way to Meereen
    Episode 6.3 His arrival / Siege of Meereen..

  243. Sunfyre
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    Joe Frost:
    Sunfyre,

    I still hold out that a season or mini-season detailing the events surrounding Robert’s Rebellion would not just give more time for George to finish the books but would be pretty important to establish an flesh out characters who are vital to the finale and overall sotry in general. Most show watchers have no idea who Rhaegar, Lyanna and the Mad King are and this is tragic especially if L+R= J is a revelation. People will just be like…”oh…I don’t know who they are” so it loses it’s impact.

    Gotta say that’s the most valid rationale for a prequel season. In a perfect world that might have been amazing. Prequels can often seem superfluous. But a story this dense and rich where the past plays such a huge role is exactly the kind of thing that cries out for a filmed prequel. If they’d had a looser airing schedule with longer hiatuses in between seasons they might have been able to do a mini-season on Robert’s Rebellion. Don’t think it will ever happen though… As jentario said they’ll likely just use Bran for flashbacks.

  244. Sunfyre
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    jentario:
    fuelpagan,

    But she has already doine important things, and for some reason D&D are giving other people her actions (if she is indeed cut) instead of giving her other people’s actions. It makes little sense to cut her.

    Yeah she’s one character. The sand snakes are multiple characters. Seems ass-backwards to add material for multiple smaller characters at the expense of one larger character. Just from a storytelling economy standpoint.

  245. Blind Beth
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    Dwayne Roberts,

    Haha, I love this. You get it. :-)

    Love me some chocolate, also love me some weird strawberry mashup.

  246. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    I was referring to your ad hominem attack of D&D, to wit:

    Have those f#cking hacks even read the books?

    The fact that it is in the form of a question does not in any way, shape or form change it–it’s an ad hominem.

    And Varys arc is one they can’t cut. It’s to major for that to even work. It’s like the conclusion to the entire GoT part of the storyline

    YOU think that he’s vital….most readers thought that Ned Stark was vital until he lost his head. Plus, no one is cutting Varys’ arc. They’ve changed the events so that he leaves KL a bit earlier than expected but that doesn’t mean they won’t hit all the necessary character development and plot points. YOU don’t know what GRRM has in mind and YOU, therefore, don’t know what’s necessary. YOU don’t how D&D plan to get to those points on the show, which we know they know. So unless you can read minds, you’re getting all wound up about pure speculation (and being rude in the process).

  247. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    mariamb: I hope not also and I honestly don’t understand why that would happen. Arianne is more interesting that any of the Sand Snakes and serves a larger purpose in the story that the Sand Snakes cannot fulfill.

    I think that all of this concern is premature.

    Personally, I found Arianne to be a bore, and I can see how some (or all) of the Sand Snakes could lead the Queen-maker plot instead. However, I think she will be cast, as she is a very HBO-esque character. Sex, intrigue, etc.

  248. jentario
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    ArgonathofBraavos,

    Arianne>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any Sand Snake
    At least so far.

  249. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    Kris:
    Has everyone forgotten about the Riverrun/Frey storyline?Edmure, Blackfish, etc.?

    I haven’t, and I want it! Personally, I would love it if the Blackfish simply replaced LS. I love that actor.

  250. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury: Looks like the person who said that at Westeros is now saying they made a mistake, they misread some article.

    I would love it if she did. She and Sakharov are my favorites.

  251. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Joe Frost:
    The only things we can absolutely guarantee we will see are boobs and death!

    Haha! To commandeer an old saying:

    “Only two things are certain on Game of Thrones: death and titties.”

  252. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    jentario:
    ArgonathofBraavos,

    Arianne>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any Sand Snake
    At least so far.

    I just hate hyper-sexualized characters that use their bodies to get their way. And on top of that, I find it to be a boring and one-note characterization.

  253. jentario
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    ArgonathofBraavos,

    She isn’t a one-dimensional character, though. Her interaction with Doran is IMO the best part of the Dorne chapters (so far). That can hardly be given to Sand Snakes since they aren’t his heirs (bastards and all).

  254. fuelpagan
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

    jentario: Arianne>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any Sand Snake
    At least so far.

    That’s the problem. We don’t have enough information from the books to say which characters in Dorne are actually important compared to the others. We have as much information about Arianne and the Sand Snakes as we had about Sansa and Arya after the first book. After AGoT, Arya>>>>>>>>>>>>Sansa. However, now Arya and Sansa are both interesting.

    We are invested in Arianne because she is a POV character. That doesn’t mean she is actually necessary.

  255. loco73
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    Well it appears that the Queen, no not Cersei or Margery, no the actual Queen of Great Britain, Elizabeth II, will visit the “Game Of Thrones” set. Below is the announcement from Rolling Stone magazine and the link to the full article:

    The Queen and Duke will trade merry old England for Westeros during upcoming trip to Northern Ireland
    http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/queen-elizabeth-ii-to-visit-game-of-thrones-set-20140619

    PS Seeing the amount of stupidity that continues to pour over this site, especially since Fansided has started to “preside” over it, glad I’m staying away more and more…

  256. Joe Frost
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    Sunfyre,

    The flashbacks would be a pretty lazy way of doing it although I guess they need to have BRan do something for the next season. Still think it deserves to be done justice with at least a film.

  257. Chad Brick
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    I find it odd so many people keep saying “Well, they can push it back into Season six”.

    No, they really can’t. Heck, they still have three major plot points from ASOS left. Since they are doing seven seasons, and have never managed to get one book fully into one season, there is no way they are going to leave meaningful chunks of AFFC/ADWD for S6. If anything, WOW and DOS are going to be bigger and more like ASOS in terms of a high payoff/filler ratio, as GRRM has lots of threads to climax and close over those two books. The amount of skippable stuff will go down, not up.

    I doubt much of anything from AFFC/ADWD can be crammed into Season 6. WOW will be far more than enough.

  258. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

    Joe Frost:
    Sunfyre,

    The flashbacks would be a pretty lazy way of doing it although I guess they need to have BRan do something for the next season. Still think it deserves to be done justice with at least a film.

    I think flashbacks are an excellent device in film and TV, and also help with creating the feeling of a layered and complex secondary world. Good for verisimilitude.

    I never understood the apparent “conventional wisdom” that flashbacks are lazy storytelling. Strikes me as amateur adherence to “film-making 101″ tropes.

  259. mariamb
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan:
    jentario,

    There is a difference between the action being important, and who performs the action being important. Bran needs to be pushed out a window…anyone other than Jaime performing this action will change the story. Jaime needs his hand cut off…doesn’t matter if it is Vargo Hoat or Locke.

    If D&D are including the sand snakes over Arianne, that tells me the sand snakes have more to contribute right now to the story. If Arianne is needed later if Doran should die, they can introduce her later and just include a couple of passing references next season. D&D could change the character the way they did with Jeyne/Talisa and have her start out as calculating. Rather than her start out a sand snake wannabe and grow into Doran’s daughter. But I wouldn’t be shocked if they cut her altogether.

    Of course, none of us know the end game. With that in mind, Arianne could prove to be nothing more than the readers’ insight into Dorne. However, she is the princess and is the future ruler because of Dorne’s custom of equal primogeniture. That fact alone makes her important to the story… unless, of course, that is changed in the show and Trystane becomes the heir. We also have no clue of what is to become of Quentyn although popular speculation around here is that he has been merged with Quentyn. I don’t know…I’m just not buying that Obara, Nymeria and Tyene prove more important to this story than Arianne. We shall soon see.

  260. Sunfyre
    Posted June 19, 2014 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

    ArgonathofBraavos: I think flashbacks are an excellent device in film and TV, and also help with creating the feeling of a layered and complex secondary world. Good for verisimilitude.

    I never understood the apparent “conventional wisdom” that flashbacks are lazy storytelling. Strikes me as amateur adherence to “film-making 101″ tropes.

    I agree overall. But over-reliance on flashbacks can also sap them of their power. They are good in small doses. Unless you’re talking about a show that integrates them into the structure from the beginning (like Lost).

    If Bran only exists as a flashback device it will get old fast. I’m not suggesting that’s what will happen. Just that they need to be careful and make every flashback count.

  261. Ulf da Wolf
    Posted June 20, 2014 at 3:48 am | Permalink

    One thing: IS TYWIN DEAF??

    Come on, they grunt and scream and he can’t hear anything of it in the middle of the quiet night….

  262. Veltigar
    Posted June 20, 2014 at 4:39 am | Permalink

    Dio Westeros: Fantasy involves more than magic.There are numerous elements/themes that make this an absolute High Fantasy series.It may be lacking the overwhelming use of magic (unlike LOTR/Harry Potter) but there are so many other things making this High Fantasy.I dont understand why you make it as if magic is the only element making something High Fantasy… there are many others this show uses continuously.

    As far as knocking the show… Making it like GOT is some petty insignificance compared to the Sopranos… Right.Check the reviews,check the ratings,check the viewership numbers.GOT is #1.Stop watching the show with a checklist of things done wrong and just enjoy the ride.I have read every book numerous times.I would do things differently if I made the show but you treat this like some 1 star entity that exists for 2 episodes then gets axed.This show is amazing television when you watch it for what it is… not for what you wish it was.

    Step one: read what I actually wrote

    Step two: come to the conclusion that I called GoT/ASOIAF a high fantasy, but one that is lower on magic than usual. Didn’t go into any of the other HF characteristics.

    Step three: Drop the bandwagon argument. Twilight is also popular, that doesn’t mean it’s good (for the record: as far as commercial succes goes, I do admire GoT and Twilight. As a piece of art they are garbage).

    Step four: If I treated GoT as something that would get axed after 2 episodes, I wouldn’t be here right now, four seasons in. Just observing the staggering decline in quality since season one.

    johnnytata: dude.what the fuck are you even talking about?

    you sound like a fucking loony tune.

    why are you even watching if you hate this so much?masochist?

    i’ll just never get why people put themselves through this…unless they somehow get their rocks off on this specific type of argument,which then becomes nothing but a self indulgent narcissistic intellectual masturbation.

    The same reason why you keep responding to these kinds of posts, with the difference that you don’t say anything meaningful at all.

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ:
    Veltigar,
    YOU think that he’s vital….most readers thought that Ned Stark was vital until he lost his head. Plus, no one is cutting Varys’ arc. They’ve changed the events so that he leaves KL a bit earlier than expected but that doesn’t mean they won’t hit all the necessary character development and plot points. YOU don’t know what GRRM has in mind and YOU, therefore, don’t know what’s necessary. YOU don’t how D&D plan to get to those points on the show, which we know they know. So unless you can read minds, you’re getting all wound up about pure speculation (and being rude in the process).

    1) ASOIAF = two parts. One the GoT and the other one is the magical element (i.e. the actual song). LF and Varys are the ones who drive the GoT part of the story.
    2) It’s not about Varys leaving KL earlier, which you would know if you had been paying attention, it’s about his motivation for helping Tyrion. In the show Varys is the benevolent friend, who selfishly frees Tyrion. In the books he’s a devious manipulator who rips out the tongues of little children and is doing everything he can to put a Blackfyre (well, imo a Brightflame/Blackfyre) on the IT
    3) The fact that they make changes is not a big deal. It’s an adaptation after all, the point of the matter is that every change has consequences and the writers are unwilling to adress those issues. So, I’m sure they’ll include the BF ploy in the show, but it will not make sense because it’s not been properly build-up. You can act like it isn’t true, but the journey matters, it’s not just about the destination. Case in point: Tyrion killing Tywin in the show or Shae’s involvement in the entire thing. Tyrion has no sensible motivation to go after Pops (let’s ignore that it doesn’t make sense that he found his way up there) and Shae has even less motivation to be in the position he finds her in.

  263. Bard
    Posted June 20, 2014 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    Ulf da Wolf:
    One thing: IS TYWIN DEAF??

    Come on, they grunt and scream and he can’t hear anything of it in the middle of the quiet night….

    Maybe he was farting very loudly.

  264. Joe Frost
    Posted June 20, 2014 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    ArgonathofBraavos,

    It reeks of poor planning and creating backstory on the fly (which they obviously haven’t but it comes off that way). They should have built these things in from the start. The only saving grace is if they properly depict Bran linking up his consciusness to the timestream. In the books his visions are pretty vague so to get an accurate depiction of history from them is gonna be a push.

  265. jentario
    Posted June 20, 2014 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    Ulf da Wolf,

    The privy looked rather far away from the bedroom, and they didn’t make too much noise TBH (it was a rather quiet struggle). And as Bard said, maybe his poop was louder.

  266. fuelpagan
    Posted June 20, 2014 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar: 2) It’s not about Varys leaving KL earlier, which you would know if you had been paying attention, it’s about his motivation for helping Tyrion. In the show Varys is the benevolent friend, who selfishly frees Tyrion. In the books he’s a devious manipulator who rips out the tongues of little children and is doing everything he can to put a Blackfyre (well, imo a Brightflame/Blackfyre) on the IT
    3) The fact that they make changes is not a big deal. It’s an adaptation after all, the point of the matter is that every change has consequences and the writers are unwilling to adress those issues. So, I’m sure they’ll include the BF ploy in the show, but it will not make sense because it’s not been properly build-up. You can act like it isn’t true, but the journey matters, it’s not just about the destination. Case in point: Tyrion killing Tywin in the show or Shae’s involvement in the entire thing. Tyrion has no sensible motivation to go after Pops (let’s ignore that it doesn’t make sense that he found his way up there) and Shae has even less motivation to be in the position he finds her in.

    Sibel talked about Shae’s motivation for being with Tywin. She is in survival mode. The last time she was escaping she was caught and forced to testify. She is just trying to convince Tywin she is worth keeping alive.

    I’ll admit, in the book, the reason Tyrion goes after Tywin is much stronger. But it is still reasonable that Tyrion simply wanted to know why Tywin was willing to execute Tyrion when he was innocent of the crime.

    Varys was still behind the whole incident. It wasn’t just a happy accident that Tywin was on the toilet at that moment. Who would know that Shae was sleeping with Tywin? If you are putting your plan in motion to put a Blackfyre on the throne, you don’t want Tywin as the Hand. But you also need to pin it on someone motivated to take Tywin out. Varys staged the event, once he heard the bells he knew the task was done. I think Varys was heading back only to make sure Tywin was dead.

    With his Little Birds, it isn’t important for Varys to stay in Kings Landing to know what is going on. Once Kevan starts to stabilize the Iron Throne, Varys can still sneak in and take care of him.

    Just because in the show it currently appears Varys was simply wanting to help Tyrion, doesn’t mean there aren’t other motivations that will be revealed later. At the end of ASoS, Varys motivations appeared to be the same as the show has them. Only later do we find out there is more to the story. You have to let it play out.

  267. Veltigar
    Posted June 20, 2014 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan: Sibel talked about Shae’s motivation for being with Tywin. She is in survival mode. The last time she was escaping she was caught and forced to testify. She is just trying to convince Tywin she is worth keeping alive.

    I’ll admit, in the book, the reason Tyrion goes after Tywin is much stronger. But it is still reasonable that Tyrion simply wanted to know why Tywin was willing to execute Tyrion when he was innocent of the crime.

    Varys was still behind the whole incident. It wasn’t just a happy accident that Tywin was on the toilet at that moment.Who would know that Shae was sleeping with Tywin? If you are putting your plan in motion to put a Blackfyre on the throne, you don’t want Tywin as the Hand. But you also need to pin it on someone motivated to take Tywin out. Varys staged the event, once he heard the bells he knew the task was done. I think Varys was heading back only to make sure Tywin was dead.

    With his Little Birds, it isn’t important for Varys to stay in Kings Landing to know what is going on. Once Kevan starts to stabilize the Iron Throne, Varys can still sneak in and take care of him.

    Just because in the show it currently appears Varys was simply wanting to help Tyrion, doesn’t mean there aren’t other motivations that will be revealed later. At the end of ASoS, Varys motivations appeared to be the same as the show has them. Only later do we find out there is more to the story. You have to let it play out.

    1) There are spoilers in the post you quoted, but the spoilermarks have disappeared

    2) In the show, Tyrion forced Tywin’s hand with the TBC. He was the one who put his life on the line.

    3) Her actions in that bed weren’t that of of frightened woman trying to convince Tywin that she was useful. She immediately grabbed for that knife. If the show had been consistent with her characterization, she would have at least tried to explain why she was there to Tyrion. After all, she was Shae the whore with a heart of gold.

    4)You have to be joking with “Varys staged the whole incident”. Even in the books, where there is far more merit to the claim, it’s kind of hard to make that case. In the show it’s flat out impossible. Tyrion magically finds Tywin’s chambers BEFORE HE EVEN HAS A CHANCE TO TALK TO VARYS. Also, is that was the plan, Varys could have just killed Tywin himself and blamed the absent Tyrion later. No one would question that Tyrion killed him.

    5)If you’re reading of the bells siuation is correct, than the writers used the lazy Frozen surprise reveal cheat. In a private moment, where no one is observing him have the character do something that doesn’t telegraph with him being an evil mastermind and then do the reveal.

    6)Varys presence (or lack there off) in KL is not what’s wrong in this situation.

    7) That is exactly the problem. Varys will eventually have the same motivation he has in the books, but without the proper buid-up. The writers continously change the journey, but they are unwilling to acknowledge the consequences of these chances, and keep on ending up at the same plotpoints as in the books eventhough they do not make sense at all. If Varys isn’t goading Tyrion or isn’t forced to help Tyrion by Jaime, etc. the character isn’t correctly portrayed. The BF angle then just comes out of the left field and undercuts all what the story has build-up about Varys.

  268. Sean C.
    Posted June 20, 2014 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    Kris,

    It’s not just about the cost. You have to take consideration if Michelle Fairley is even willing to come back to play that role. She might not be. And it wouldn’t work to have a different actress in that role

    They would have included Stoneheart in her contract when they hired her. It’s not like this is a development D&D would have been unaware of.

  269. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 20, 2014 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan: Sibel talked about Shae’s motivation for being with Tywin. She is in survival mode. The last time she was escaping she was caught and forced to testify. She is just trying to convince Tywin she is worth keeping alive.

    I’ll admit, in the book, the reason Tyrion goes after Tywin is much stronger. But it is still reasonable that Tyrion simply wanted to know why Tywin was willing to execute Tyrion when he was innocent of the crime.

    Varys was still behind the whole incident. It wasn’t just a happy accident that Tywin was on the toilet at that moment.Who would know that Shae was sleeping with Tywin? If you are putting your plan in motion to put a Blackfyre on the throne, you don’t want Tywin as the Hand. But you also need to pin it on someone motivated to take Tywin out. Varys staged the event, once he heard the bells he knew the task was done. I think Varys was heading back only to make sure Tywin was dead.

    With his Little Birds, it isn’t important for Varys to stay in Kings Landing to know what is going on. Once Kevan starts to stabilize the Iron Throne, Varys can still sneak in and take care of him.

    Just because in the show it currently appears Varys was simply wanting to help Tyrion, doesn’t mean there aren’t other motivations that will be revealed later. At the end of ASoS, Varys motivations appeared to be the same as the show has them. Only later do we find out there is more to the story. You have to let it play out.

    It’s not just going after Tywin for sentencing him to death. It’s also going after Tywin for turning Shae, the only person he loves, against him in such a brutally humiliating way at the trial. That’s stronger motivation, IMO, than the Tysha reveal, which I feel was rather awkwardly inserted into the Jaime-Tyrion escape scene in the book.

    The other thing is that at least for the TV show, it seems very uncharacteristic of Tywin to have pulled such a horrible prank on Tyrion, and forced him to watch Tysha be raped by his soldiers. Even within the context of the book I find that uncharacteristic. Tywin can be cruel, but he’s not idly cruel like Joffrey. His cruelty usually has a grand purpose.

    In all, I think the Tysha thing simply doesn’t work.

  270. fuelpagan
    Posted June 20, 2014 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

    ArgonathofBraavos: The other thing is that at least for the TV show, it seems very uncharacteristic of Tywin to have pulled such a horrible prank on Tyrion, and forced him to watch Tysha be raped by his soldiers. Even within the context of the book I find that uncharacteristic. Tywin can be cruel, but he’s not idly cruel like Joffrey. His cruelty usually has a grand purpose.

    Tywin wasn’t pulling a prank on Tyrion, he was teaching him a lesson. Joffrey is cruelty stems from his enjoyment while watching another’s suffering. I don’t think Tywin felt anything while Tysha was being raped. It was simply a lesson he felt Tyrion needed to learn. The last thing Tywin needed was rumors about his youngest son marrying a peasant woman. Legacy is too important for him to allow that. The soldiers who raped Tysha would spread Tywin’s version of the story to counter any rumors that may have started.

    Even in the show, that lesson is still important. Otherwise Tyrion would have probably ran off with Shae instead of marrying Sansa.

  271. somuchforoldtown
    Posted June 20, 2014 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

    mariamb,

    With Varys out to sea, Kevan is toast. Jamie will take his place.

  272. somuchforoldtown
    Posted June 20, 2014 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

    Joe Frost:
    Tyroshi Barber,

    Qunetyn’s chapters bored the piss out of me and when he got toasted I just thought what a waste of time! Sure they could burn the hell out of someone else. Daario would be my choice as he was annoying in the book and in the show even less interesting!I thought Kevan had already been introduced in Season 1? I mena he may be recast as it was a pretty minor appearance ( consulting with Tywin when they are at war with the North a couple of times). For me Kevan is a pretty important character as he tries to balance out Cersei and hold House Lannister together.

    I think they’ll cut Kevan and replace him with Jamie. This isn’t my idea, someone else proposed it first on this board a while back, but it makes sense at this point.

  273. Joe Frost
    Posted June 21, 2014 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    somuchforoldtown,

    Not sure how that would work as Cersei and Jaime are at odds and Kevan is playing peacekeeper. Jaime has his own storyline and Varys has nothing major to do outside of Westeros. I think Varys may play some role (possibly replacing Griff but I really hope not) and can leave that storyline in time to get back to King’s Landing to murder “Kevan” or whoever takes his place. Would make sense as Aegon and the Golden Company will have landed in Westeros at that point.
    Jaime replacing Kevan‘s role is daft and if they do do that then it could be a showbreaker for me. Maybe the best bet would be for Pycelle to step up to be the calming influence/ Varys victim. I mean Varys kills him “offscreen” as it were anyway in the books so the exact same scene with Pycelle replacing Kevan would serve the same purpose of annoucning Varys is back and weakening House Lannister by removing one of it’s higher ranking members/loyalists.

  274. Alexandre
    Posted June 22, 2014 at 3:14 am | Permalink

    Making it to 7 seasons is great, even if I would have preferred 8 or 9, but who knows, it might extend up to that point in time if all goes well with the books and other raw materials coming up~

    I have faith in the showrunners about what they’re doing; seeing that this show stood strong for the first 4 seasons, I have high hopes that they’ll keep it that way even if it gets harder to adapt.

  275. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted June 23, 2014 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    Veltigar,

    1) While I agree that Varys has been one of the important people that drives the story, it doesn’t mean he will be important in the endgame. None of us will know until a) the series ends or b) you develop ESP and get a read on GRRM’s brain.

    2) Where did I say that I didn’t notice Varys left earlier than he did in the books? In fact many of my comments recently acknowledge it. It’s one of the bones of contention here as to whether it will affect the story in some way that will derail the end game. Since you don’t seem to get the point of what I’m telling you, let me repeat myself. You’re not GRRM and you’re not D&D so you’re really just getting extremely upset based on pure speculation. You don’t even know for sure that Vary’s ultimate motivation is to put a Blacfyre on the IT. I happen to disagree with you about that but if I’m wrong, I’ll be the first to acknowledge that I was wrong and you’re right. And no name calling will be needed when and if that happens.

    3) If you’re worried about why Tyrion went up there in the first place….he’s not thinking rationally at all. People rarely do things based on what seems rational to us. Maybe he wanted to confront his father one last time. Maybe he wanted to kill Tywin and that was always the point of going up there. Maybe he thought he could find something he thought he needed on the trip. Who knows? Does everything they think and do have to be explained to us? If so, that’s an impossible standard for any TV show to meet. Hell, even authors can’t and don’t explain every little thing.

    And it mystifies me why you think show Tyrion doesn’t have enough motivation to kill Tywin (without the Tysha story) and why Shae ended up in Tywin’s bed. I’ve posted several times on their reasoning and it makes sense to me and many other fans. His father has hated him and either abused or neglected him his entire life. He’s killed lots of good people that Tyrion felt bad about. He’s favored Cersei and Jaime over him. He’s refused to acknowledge Tyrion as a human being deserving of any respect. He’s made clear that Tyrion’s only worth was the fact that he was a Lannister. He was willing to have him killed for a crime he didn’t commit (a crime that Tywin had committed on numerous occasions, making him a hypocrite). Then to top that off, he sleeps with the woman Tyrion loves. Now as for Shae, I’m sure his jealousy was part of it, but show Shae went for a knife. He had to at least stop her from killing him…The show makes this pretty plain with the cutaways to the knife on the bedside table. He also had to stop her from crying out and spoiling his escape.

    Shae intended to leave until she was stopped. They set that up very clearly on the show. We can only assume she was coerced. She’s a survivor and doing what Cersei and Tywin wanted ensured she would live to see another day. But she needs protection in the form of a man, so she returns to prostitution and picks the most powerful man in town, Tywin. It makes absolutely perfect sense.

    But we’re just fans, that’s how many of us see it. So how about the horses’ mouth? Sibel has commented on the character’s motivations, and the showrunners have weighed in on their motivations and they pretty much confirm what I sussed out above. I don’t know why you still don’t get it but okay. If you don’t want to understand, you won’t.

    In re: your statement about how they’ve failed to address…blah, blah, blah….They’ve written and spoken ad nauseum about how they’re cognizant of the ramifications of their changes. The problem is those “effing hacks” as you like to call them haven’t addressed YOUR concerns sufficiently to ally YOUR fears. I suspect your concerns can never be allayed, even if they spent all of their time doing so. I, however, would rather they spent their time continuing to make an excellent TV show.

    And it’s very interesting how you never addressed the most important point I made….why call them names? Why be so rude? What in your ego is SO tied up in this story and the adaptation that you feel the need to be insulting toward these people who work on this show almost 7 days a week, year round? The pace that the show demands is brutal. And for all of that they get insults? It’s fine if you disagree with how they’re doing things but your tone, do you really feel that’s acceptable? If you do, then I encourage you to go out and make your own version of this story. By all means, I would really love to see that. Methinks you’d get a lot of your own vitriol back though. If you think their award winning show isn’t up to your standards, I’d love to see what the Internet would make of your efforts at doing it better.

  276. "Do you always speak in riddles, ser?" "It varys."
    Posted June 23, 2014 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    Luka Nieto Garay: I agree completely in that it’s a great change, except I’m pretty sure we’ll see Varys killing Pycelle and Kevan, and hence the surprise invasion of the Stormlands, right at the end of season 5.

    I agree! Varys with the Golden Company most of the time, until one of the final scenes of Season 5, which would be the beginnings of the invasion of the Stormlands. Cut to Kevan, or whoever they might replace him with, in the Small Council meeting, getting word of the invasion. He sends out reinforcements or something. Meeting adjourned. He heads up to his chambers. Opens the door, surprise, Varys with a crossbrow. That would be a fantastic ending. Except that would somehow take away the shock and awe of the reveal that Varys has been working as a Targaryen loyalist the whole time.

  277. "Do you always speak in riddles, ser?" "It varys."
    Posted June 23, 2014 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    Walter Harrow:
    Im hoping Arya features heavily next season. She is one of the few characters will plenty of content left from the books and i think they could even add a bit more for her to do

    She has like a grand total of like three chapters left across 2000 pages. What makes you think she’s one of the “few” characters with “plenty” of content left?

    She would literally only have to be in two episodes. But it’s Braavos and everyone who watches the show seems to love the Faceless Men assassinating people, so I think the bulk of next season’s filler will be in Braavos with Arya and probably Sam.

  278. Michael
    Posted June 23, 2014 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    Of course Stoneheart SHOULD be in s5

  279. Heidegger
    Posted June 24, 2014 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Why does everyone seem to either be terrified of, or completely ignore the possibility of the Books and the Show diverging even more and become two different stories?

    With different things happening in Season 5, different things after that, and different endings?

    Without the accusations “the show has spoiled the books”, etc.

    Why not? It’s perfectly possible. HBO bought the rights. They can do whatever they want. And it’s not like it is Forbidden and they would commit a horrific crime. NOWHERE does it say that an adaptation of something mustn’t stray drastically from the source material. Nowhere. There is no Rulebook. There is no Authority on Books-to-TV Adaptations floating in the universe decreeing How It Must Be.

    Two different Songs of Ice and Fire? One in the books and one on TV? Possibly with utterly different endings? Why not?

  280. BlackTalon
    Posted June 25, 2014 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

    I’d be fine with that – it would be like getting to experience the story twice, and fresh each time.


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