James Hibberd thinks the ending to A Song of Ice and Fire will be “very different”

James Hibberd had unparalleled access to the cast and crew of Game of Thrones for years, including George R.R. Martin. So we wanna know: Will his books end like the show?

Late last year, Entertainment Weekly’s James Hibberd released Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon: Game of Thrones and the Official Untold Story of the Epic Series. The title pretty much says it all: this is a highly detailed, entertaining history of the defining show of the past decade, told by the people who worked on it, to whom Hibberd had unparalleled access over the course of the series. But if you don’t believe me, here’s how Hibberd himself sells it in a new interview with Los Siete Reinos:

"It’s the inside story of adapting one of the most ambitious fantasy sagas ever written into the most ambitious television show ever made, which became the biggest show of the 21st century and then had a highly controversial finish. Most TV and movie productions, behind the scenes, are workaday, dull affairs. This is the story of two first-time showrunners trying to make something that was considered downright impossible and, in most respects, pulling it off. So if you’ve already read George’s books and have watched the show, this is an entirely different side to a story you already know that’s gives you new insight into many iconic moments and the decisions that were made along the way. Also, so many behind-the-scenes accounts of entertainment productions are technical and dry, but I tried to write Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon to read more like a page-turner."

If I wasn’t already signed up, that would do it.

Anyway, the whole interview is terrific, but I was particularly interested in some of the things Hibberd had to say about A Song of Ice and Fire author George R.R. Martin, with whom he talked to anew for this book, as he did with many of the cast and crew members. The Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire fandom is in a weird place right now where we know an ending to the story — the highly controversial one we got to Game of Thrones — but are still waiting on an end to the source material. Setting aside questions of Martin’s writing speed, a lot of fans are wondering: will the books end like the show?

Personally, I’ve always figured that while the books will probably hit some of the same beats as the show — Daenerys dying, Bran being king — the particulars will be different. But I can’t speak with authority. Hibberd can, and he talked about why Martin pulled away from the series in its final few seasons.

“I got the impression it was more about Martin focusing on finishing his overdue books than wanting to disengage from the show per se,” Hibberd explained. “But as [showrunner Dan Weiss] points out, it was also tough for Martin to have these two different universes in his mind that were increasingly diverging.”

"Many don’t realize that even if Martin had finished his books, the show would still have had an extremely different final couple seasons than the books due to the number of new characters and storylines that have already been introduced that the producers felt could not fit within the confines of a sprawling TV show which already had dozens of series regulars. For all we know (and I certainly do not), somebody like Lady Stoneheart or Arianne Martell could end up on the Iron Throne in A Dream of Spring – or at least play highly pivotal roles – which wouldn’t have been possible in a show that they were not in."

Lady Stoneheart and Arianne Martell were two of the more high-profile cuts the show made, but they were by no means the only ones. And while Hibberd may not know their fates on the page, Martin did reveal how some things will be different, and Hibberd didn’t include all of what he learned in the book:

"It’s particularly difficult for [Martin] to discuss the show’s latter seasons because he has his own very different versions of certain events coming in the books. He surprised me by giving one example on the record that I included in the book (how Hodor’s death will be different). He also told me a few things coming that were off the record, and let’s just say… I cannot wait to read The Winds of Winter!"

And now so are we! Well, we were before, but somehow this kicks it up to another level. “Based on what I’ve been told, yes, I think Martin’s ending will be very different,” Hibberd continued.

Of course, Hibberd is too old a hand at all this to actually reveal what Martin said. Game of Thrones fans were famous for seeking out spoilers (or studiously avoiding them), and no one was more careful than Hibberd. “I bought a separate laptop to work on Thrones content, I kept all my recordings, interviews and notes in an encrypted folder (and once forgot the password – which made for a terrifying 24 hours), and I wouldn’t put any spoiler-filled stories into EW’s system until after the relevant episode aired – so across a decade of covering the show, nothing ever leaked from me,” he remembered.

"As for spoiler fan sites and so forth, I think everybody has to play their own game and there is no “right” way to cover a show. Some fans genuinely love to know spoilers, and to speculate and play out all the what-ifs. The only way to cover spoilers that I don’t personally like – just as a fan who doesn’t like to know spoilers – is when people put a spoiler in a headline, particularly before or right after an episode airs, because then you can stumble onto something before you watched the episode that you really don’t want to know."

Fair enough.

LSR also asks Hibberd his opinion on the show’s ending, which many fans felt was a letdown. Does he get the impression that showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss would go back and change things if they could? (And remember, he’s actually talked to them about this stuff.)

"There’s a line from Kit Harington in the book about how when he looks back on his performance that all he sees are the “flaws” – tiny things that fans never noticed or thought about, but they stand out to him. One thing I’ve learned from interviewing top creatives over the years is that Kit’s feeling about his work are extremely common. When creatives watch their own shows, they see so many things that they privately wish they could go back and change, yet they also believe it’s foolish to say such things publicly – there’s nothing to be gained from criticizing your own work when so many are eager to do that for you. Also, feelings about art change over time (in the book, Benioff and Weiss point to the example of The Sopranos final scene, and how it’s gained in esteem over the years). The showrunners really wanted fans to love the final season. So I don’t think they will ever say publicly “X should have been different.” But I do suspect, like most creatives, if you offered them a time machine…"

Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon is available now, and you can read the rest of the interview at Los Siete Reinos!

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