Marvel killed the movie star? The “MCU movies aren’t cinema” debate continues

Over the last few years, there’s been an underbuzz among pundits about whether or not Marvel movies are “cinema.” The discussion really got going when Goodfellas director Martin Scorsese opined that they were not, and the discourse has flared up every so often ever since.

Of late, Pulp Fiction director Quentin Tarantino has been airing his thoughts on the matter, most recently on an episode of the 2 Bears, 1 Cave podcast. On this round, he’s dealing in a specialized brand of the critique, not so much saying that “Marvel movies aren’t cinema” but rather that “Marvel movie stars aren’t movie stars.”

“Part of the Marvel-ization of Hollywood is…you have all these actors who have become famous playing these characters,” Tarantino said. “But they’re not movie stars. Right? Captain America is the star. Or Thor is the star. I mean, I’m not the first person to say that. I think that’s been said a zillion times…but it’s like, you know, it’s these franchise characters that become a star.”

"I’m not even putting them down frankly, to tell you the truth. But that is one of the — the legacy of the Marvel-ization of Hollywood movies."

Incidentally, this is very close to what card-carrying Marvel star Anthony Mackie (Sam Wilson, aka the Falcon) said about the nature of the Marvel machine back in 2017:

For the record, I think they’re both right, more or less. Yeah, most people probably didn’t go see Captain America: Civil War because Chris Evans was playing Captain America. They saw it because it was the next chapter in the big Marvel story. Oh sure, there’s some knock-on effect — Robert Downey Jr. probably came the closest of all the big Marvel players to achieving some kind of stardom that transcended the movies themselves, and I’m sure Evans’ presence pulled a few people into Knives Out — but we’re a long way from the days when plastering Arnold Schwarzenegger’s name on a movie poster was enough by itself to get people to show up.

Are Marvel movies “the only things that seem to be made” nowadays?

So we don’t have movie stars like we used to. That seems obvious to me. But is it a good or a bad thing? I don’t think it’s either. It just is. There are problems with the new Hollywood, where movies often feel less like art than “content,” but there were lots of problems with the old star system, too.

But we’re here to talk about the problems with new Hollywood, and with superhero movies specifically. “Look, I used to collect Marvel comics like crazy when I was a kid,” Tarantino continued. “There’s an aspect that if these movies were coming out when I was in my twenties, I would totally be fucking happy and totally love them. I mean, they wouldn’t be the only movies being made. They would be those movies amongst other movies. But, you know, I’m almost 60, so yeah. No, I’m not quite as excited about them.”

"My only axe to grind against them is they’re the only things that seem to be made. And they’re the only things that seem to generate any kind of excitement amongst a fan base or even for the studio making them. That’s what they’re excited about. And so it’s just the fact that they are the entire representation of this era of movies right now. There’s not really much room for anything else. That’s my problem."

With so many streaming services throwing money around, it’s a little odd to hear him complain about superhero movies being “the only things that seem to be made.” There’s a lotta movies and TV shows in the works at the moment. But at the same time, I get it, because tons of stuff getting made means it’s harder for any one thing to break through and make an impact, and right now it’s true that most of the resources are going towards superheroes and other big franchises.

Anyway, I’m sure this is the last we’ll hear of this debate.

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