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GRRM reveals Strong Belwas has been cut

Strong BelwasGeorge R. R. Martin has dropped a Strong Belwas bombshell over on his Not A Blog. According to two comments he left in response to questions from his readers, the fan favorite character has been cut from the TV series. Strong Belwas is a pit fighter from Meereen who enters Dany’s service. His introduction in the book series came when Barristan joined Daenerys. Obviously that didn’t occur in the show, but the hope was that they would find a way to introduce him later on. Alas, according to Martin, that is not going to happen.

In other news gleaned from his blog’s comments, Martin revealed he will be writing the second episode of season 4 and that he has already turned in his script.

Winter Is Coming: Pouring one out for Strong Belwas…

258 Comments

  • So sad :( I was hoping for him to be introduced at least in S5 in a pit fight.

    Could 4×2 be the PW?

  • that’s sad :(
    alas, it’s an adaptation. not everyone/everything is going to make the final cut.

  • Ehh, of all the characters already cut, I can’t say I’m really upset by this. As long as we have Selmy, that’s all I care about.

    Also, yeah, I was thinking the episode GRRM is writing is probably Joffrey’s wedding. GRRM seems to be the official GoT wedding planner haha. (it’s not spoiling anything by saying Joffrey is getting married…)

  • it’s a shame but I do understand that you have to limit the number of characters or the TV show would become seconds of each weekly and a mess, so many new characters appearing at the moment and next few seasons also!

  • Disappointing but understandable. Probably one of my least favorite cuts so far, if for no other reason than he is a local and contributes to the narrative that she picks up followers wherever she goes.

  • I’m the only who think that Belwas wouldn’t be a waste of money or time? The Dany plot doesn’t have so many characters like King’s Landing plot, and he is funny and most of the book readers like him. Some characters like the the Tyrell brothers (Garlan and Willas Tyrell) I understand because KL has already many characters, but I didn’t understand that.

  • Oh no! How ever will the show survive without this crucial character!?!?!?!?!?

    More interesting is that GRRM is writing the second episode of season 4…
    I’m thinking Joffrey’s wedding

  • Yes! So glad he’s cut. He just got irritating at a certain point, and there’s only one scene where he’s actually important (which is probably cut anyway because it was unnecessary)

  • but he always let them cut him once before winning the fight, so no problem, right? right? :-P

    On a more serious tone, he’s a cool, flavorful character, but absolutely expendable.

  • Call me heartless, but I am not disappointed by this at all. Never really liked Belwas. I expect all his scenes to be given to Dothraki.

    And yes, Episode 4×02 will most likely be the Purple Wedding, with 4×01 introducing the Red Viper.

  • For his fans I am sorry but to me he was a glorified He Man sidekick. An understandable and beneficial cut to the adaptation.

  • I think what this is really confirmation of is that Belwas doesn’t have a crucial roll to play in the books going forward. If characters are integral to the uber-plot, I doubt they’ll be cut.

  • I’d really like it if they used Barristan in place of Belwas in the one specific scene we are all thinking of. There have been so many comments about how he is or was the greatest fighter in the seven kingdoms… Lets see it!

  • I think Belwas is quite useful down the line in Meereen, with the fighting pits, him being a fighter and from that city. It’s always possible they’ll change their mind and introduce the character later. No reason why Dany’s guard can’t expand and acquire more fighters.

  • that’s depressing – he adds needed humor to Meereen/Essos.

    Maybe we can have Ser Barristan demand liver & onions?

    Nah, not quite the same.

  • voicareason,

    Yeah, but non-readers don’t know when or whether that will actually happen.
    People could be expecting it to happen this year.
    The writer could throw some fakeouts.
    Or, lots of non-readers are expecting Joffrey to get killed any day now.
    By predicting Joffrey’s wedding at the beginning of S$, you’re communicating a lot.

    I think it’s very spoilery.

  • voicareason,

    It is because it’s not a given that he lives until then. I like Belwas, but I’m sure Daario can just take his place in the fight outside Yunkai

  • Not bothered, there are much more important/better characters that I’d save the budget for too.

    Great to hear about which script he’s writing too.

  • Count me in as someone who likes Belwas but isn’t really bothered by this at all. He has a couple of fun scenes but is mostly there for flavor in a way that’s easy to fit in when you’re writing the lengthy, detailed, books GRRM is…but also more expendable given the constraints of the show.

  • Strong Belwas lets all his opponents cut him once. This time it was Weiss and Benioff. After that, he kills them.

  • C’mon! Like who will do the squat and drop on the battlefield? Way too crucial a scene to skip out on!

  • A fan favorite? Really? Didn’t know that. I didn’t care for Belwas that much, so I’m indifferent to this

  • Strong Belwas was one of those characters that someone could enjoy rooting for; he’s an archetype that’s generally a lot of fun because:

    –He’s insanely huge.
    –He refers to himself in the third person.

    That said…is he essential? Nah. We’ll live.

  • I think they should give Belwas’ fight with the knight to Barristan. That would be a badass thing for Barristan to do and show that he’s still got it. When my non-reader friends saw his reveal in the season premiere they were like ‘Lol, what use is this old dude gonna be?’

  • How can strong Belwas possibly be a fan favorite? He’s a dumb, boring brute and a fat man. Let Barristan or Jorah do the fight in front of Mereen and I’ll be just as happy. (if not happier)

  • Sorry I’m not sorry. With the san snakes being currently an endangered species I cannot bring myself to mourn Strong Belwas.

  • As my favourite character of the entire bookseries I am very disappointed, but I already assumed we wouldn’t see him in the show since he hasn’t been cast for his season. Yes he is not important to the overall storyline, but Dany/Jorah/Barristan are such unbelievable fucking bores that a comic relief character would be a HUGE asset for the Essos-storyline. Also, when it was announced in 2007 the books would be turned into a tv-show the first scene that sprang to my mind of how awesome it would look on tv is the fight with Hero of Meereen. All the people pissing of that huge wall and Belwas wiping his ass with the cloack, such a perfect scene.

    Now excuse me, I’m going to make some liver and onions for dinner tonight.

  • Not that I’m upset or something, but Belwas could have been a humorous recognisable character in Dany’s story, character that lacks in her storyline.

    About GRRM’s episode… it could deal with Joff & Marge ‘s wedding, but my belief is that this episode will serve the same way “The Pointy Way” was for “Baelor”, wich is a setup for future events in the next episode. GRRM’s episode might deal with certain sensible aspects about the history of the Red Viper, Rhaegar, Elia and her children… we should not forget that Aegon is coming in S5, and his appearance can’t come with the bang it was in the books. He must be at least mentioned, not to say talked about! IMO.

  • I’m perfectly fine with this – it’s going to be pure gold when Barristan kills the Meereenese champion and takes a dump on his body!

  • Knurk,

    Absolutely. They need to find a way to infuse some humor somewhere into the Essos plot, because it’s generally not been very fun. Belwas was my hope for that happening. It seems they want to excise as much of the comic relief from the books as they can get away with though.

  • Belwas adds comic relief to Dany’s storyline, but I can understand the cut. There’s nothing that he does that can’t be shifted onto Barristan, Jorah, Daario or even Grey Worm.

    Hoping Barristan takes his spot for the fight outside Meereen. Hoping Grey Worm gets inside the walls to free the slaves (keeping the “ex-slave freeing slave” motif in play).

  • Clob:
    I’d really like it if they used Barristan in place of Belwas in the one specific scene we are all thinking of.There have been so many comments about how he is or was the greatest fighter in the seven kingdoms…Lets see it!

    You must be talking about the scene where he takes a dump in front of the entire opposing army, right?

  • Understandable — no problem, moving on!
    I’m excited about the second episode of the fourth season, though.

  • Zack:
    Knurk,

    Absolutely. They need to find a way to infuse some humor somewhere into the Essos plot, because it’s generally not been very fun. Belwas was my hope for that happening. It seems they want to excise as much of the comic relief from the books as they can get away with though.

    Well, yes and no.

    They’ve certainly infused a lot of other characters with solid comic relief – Tyrion and Bronn, of course, Jaime and Brienne, Jaqen and Arya (grim as it may be), Tyrion and Varys.

  • Summer Is Coming: Belwas could have been a humorous recognisable character in Dany’s story, character that lacks in her storyline.

    Agreed. That’s the real loss here. Entertainment is all about contrast. Ever since Viserys and Irri left I miss stuff like …

    Irri: “Rakharo say you should take ear, to teach respect.” Then Dany says don’t hurt him, Irri translates and Rakharo says, “Huh?” and Irri rolls her eyes.

    They can get if from other characters, but there no substituting taking a dump on a corpse for top quality comedy.

  • No surprise.

    His humor will be missed in Dany’s arc, but losing him does not affect the arc at all.

  • James,

    Summer Is Coming:
    Not that I’m upset or something, but Belwas could have been a humorous recognisable character in Dany’s story, character that lacks in her storyline.

    About GRRM’s episode… it could deal with Joff & Marge ‘s wedding, but my belief is that this episode will serve the same way “The Pointy Way” was for “Baelor”, wich is a setup for future events in the next episode. GRRM’s episode might deal with certain sensible aspects about the history of the Red Viper, Rhaegar, Elia and her children… we should not forget that Aegon is coming in S5, and his appearance can’t come with the bang it was in the books. He must be at least mentioned, not to say talked about! IMO.

    Dude, spoilers. …..Joff….. is a major character and saying that he/she is even alive a year from now constitutes a pretty big spoiler. Be considerate of fans who haven’t read the books, a spoiler tag is so easy to throw in.

  • I understand why they cut him but I’m still sad about it. I think the story benefits from the comedy that Belwas brings. Some levity would be a welcome addition to Dany’s storyline but alas, not to be.

  • Ned:
    Just remember, everytime you pirate the show, a character dies.

    What if (a friend of mine) subscribes to HBO and buys the DVDs. Then can (my friend) pirate the show? Watching it on TV when it first airs is great, but having it on the computer to watch at any time (my friend) chooses to is a great convenience.

  • GreatJon of Slumber,

    Solid point, especially in regards to Bronn. Bronn’s one of the best comic relief characters from the books made even better on TV. Another example, if this week’s episode is to be an indication, is the Queen of Thorns. I didn’t intend to say the show lacked humor entirely, just that there are relatively few characters whose primary purpose is to lighten the mood. For me in the Essos plot that’s doubly evident, and yet it’s such a large aspect of the adaptation.

    But Dolorous Edd, Samwell, Bronn, Tyrion, and Varys have been reliable sources for laughs, I totally agree. Even Jaime from time to time. Let’s get some of that in Essos!

  • Saw it coming a long time ago, and don’t mind one bit. This gives Barristan more time to shine, and with the much more limited amount of time we have to interact with these characters on the TV show I think it’s a good move to focus on what’s important. Besides, I’d rather see Barristan engage in that duel outside of Meereen with Oznak than Belwas.

  • So the PW has been relegated to 4×2? Not the premiere or the s3 finale??? WTF are they gonna do in 3×10 apart from have Joffrey be a dick over Robb’s death and resurrect Cat? I really hope PW is 3×10 & 4×2 is Tyrion’s trial or something.

  • Chronologically the Ironmen chapters of Feast for Crows happens around the time of 2nd half of ASOS. So perhaps GRRM’s episode will deal with introducing them. I’d guess that episode will deal with introduction of the Viper and his entourage too.

  • They can put a made up clown in the show like the “Spice King” but not Belwas.

    This is disappointing.

  • For GRRM to write an episode that early in Season 4… I’m convinced it must be the Purple Wedding.

  • GG,

    GRRM has said that season 4 will be mostly ‘A Storm of Swords’ material. The PW isn’t happening this season, and Tyrion’s trial certainly won’t be happening as early as episode 2 of S4.

  • Adam,

    Amen.
    Folks you may think something’s not a spoiler, but hang around a newbie thread sometime.
    Lot’s of them are anticipating that Joffrey dies any day now.

  • I think they have enough comedic scenes with other characters as mentioned. If you view each location as separate then yes, essos could use more comedy. However, because it is a show, people will view it as scenes strung together. It would get a little weird to see a tyrion/shae, tyrion/varys, tyrion/bron, brienne/jaime, arya/BoB, along with all the other comedic relationships in one episode PLUS another one just for the sake that its with different characters in a different location.

    In the books its different because you have many more view points and characters, therefore proportionally your going to have more comedic situations. The show has a smaller cast and needs less characters as such to fill a role.

    Imo, after reading the books, belwas really only gave me a chuckle. While he seems a loyal companion, i never saw that much ‘comic relief’ that everyone says. I found that a majority of my reading of daenarys was very dark and troublesome especially with the situation in meeren as queen. I think this is something they want to keep in the show

    On an another note, I think they are portraying daenarys in a much more serious manner this season as well. Her dragons have grown more and she is assembling an army, not the small scared child/girl as in the first two. Most of her trailers is having her be a badass.

  • GG,

    Arya getting Needle back and stabbing the shit out of [Polliver]. Bran meeting Coldhands. The first attack on Castle Black. There is a lot of cool stuff that can happen.

  • liver and onions for dinner tonight. Was sorta grossly praying we woulda got that 1v1 where he craps on the guy.

  • I agree with the people who think its a shame to lose one of the best comic relief characters of the series. Sure, he doesn’t add much to the narrative, but he’d bring some much needed balance to all the doom and gloom.

    Still, not the end of the world, and hardly unexpected.

  • GG:
    So the PW has been relegated to 4×2? Not the premiere or the s3 finale??? WTF are they gonna do in 3×10 apart from have Joffrey be a dick over Robb’s death and resurrect Cat? I really hope PW is 3×10 & 4×2 is Tyrion’s trial or something.

    I agree with you on every count here.

  • Jacarb,

    I really hope that happens in S3, not S4. I don’t want to wait until next year to see the resolution of my favorite story arc in the books!

  • so happy *-*
    i hate that stereotyped idiot. the cut is good for the show. now if they manage to change all the Ghiscari names in something you can remember (“Mario”, “Pablo”, “Gertrude”) Daenerys’ storyline will be almost perfect :D

  • Winterlarks: I agree with you on every count here.The series won’t be a game-changer without Joff’s death as the necessary redeeming end bit for S3 finale.The raw sting of RW would fester if PW didn’t directly follow. Fans would have to WAIT A YEAR to feel that resolution?No way, D&D can’t do it that way.No way.I think Tyrion’s trial is a great guess for Martin’s script next season.

    Personally I think those are exactly the reasons NOT to do the PW this season – the RW NEEDS to fester for a while to maximize its impact, rather than forgotten about and replaced by a new shiny thing (and Joff’s death is a SERIOUSLY shiny toy) the very next episode.

  • What, so we’ll not have an incredibly fat character (too cartoonish even for a wrestlemania-like parody) to be an incredibly good fighter. This notion is as stupid as soldiers on stilts. An OBESE ubermensch gladiatior. Yeah, right. Straight from GRRM’s self-deceiving imagination into D&D’s trash bin.

  • I don’t think it will be PW that he’s writing. that will I think happen in episode 3 or 4. Because he didn’t write Bealor or RW, he doesn’t like too write death scenes over again. I think it has something to do with the battle at castle black or the battle at the Wall (if they make it one big episode). Or even it will be 1 of the 2 introduction episodes like this year. Maybe he get choose to do this episode because it will be some major plot parts with Oberyn talking about Alia.

  • Sad,he was a likable character, would have rather had the one receiving a footscrewings storyline ended late in series 2

  • kevin1989:
    I don’t think it will be PW that he’s writing. that will I think happen in episode 3 or 4. Because he didn’t write Bealor or RW, he doesn’t like too write death scenes over again. I think it has something to do with the battle at castle black or the battle at the Wall (if they make it one big episode). Or even it will be 1 of the 2 introduction episodes like this year. Maybe he get choose to do this episode because it will be some major plot parts with Oberyn talking about Alia.

    He doesn’t like to write painful death scenes over again i.e. Ned, Cat and Robb. He has admitted he quite enjoyed killing off Joffrey

  • The news about GRRM writing s4e2 really puts a big hole into the PW happening this year theory.

    I never thought that theory had any merit, but it is still nice to see another nail put in its coffin. The PW needs to be a big event and will need more time than a season finale, or even a premiere, can give it. Also, there are some major characters that need to be there. Having the KL S4 arc be the PW to Tyrion’s escape is the only arc that makes sense.

  • bon,

    Well it could be him too, but Daario is a lot more “colorful” so if they stick to how it went down in the book, I think he fits better.

  • I wonder how “uncomfortable” he made TPTB in this ultra PC day and age. Their is a possibility that he might’ve been very controversial.

    I will miss him…

  • Dan,

    Agreed 100% Tyrion’s escape should be the main event of S4 and take place in EP9, setting up the board for S5… So starting with the PW is a genius move.

  • superdeluxe,

    Says its’ a “multi episode arc” which means she will be a guest star, not a series regular. Hence it should not impact GoT shooting.

  • So which notable characters seem to have been cut?

    Strong Belwas, Thoren Smallwood, Donal Noye, Chataya and Alayaya…

  • If they have to cut someone, I’d rather have them cut someone like him. But Dorne must make it. D&D, don’t f*** with us.

  • All this talk of the world of Game of Thrones being as “big as it’s going to get” in this third season comes across as something said more for marketing purposes, and/or because of how hyped D&D are to finally get to this point in the adaptation. Dorne and the additional characters at the Iron Islands are definitely coming.

  • Dan,

    I’m going to be honest, I have no idea who Thoren Smallwood is. I’ve read the books multiple times, so he wasn’t that noteworthy to me. Alayaya and Chataya were basically merged into Ros. I’m guessing Donal Noye will be cast for season 4.

  • A severely reduced Dornish involvement to the point of just the very most necessary parts would not disappoint me at all.

  • Clob:
    A severely reduced Dornish involvement to the point of just the very most necessary parts would not disappoint me at all.

    We need Oberyn, Doran, Arianne, Quenrtn and, I guess, Areo Hotah (since he may become important later and he’s a POV). We should have at least two Sand Snakes as well. Anything less would be a shame IMO.

  • Dan:
    I wonder how “uncomfortable” he made TPTB in this ultra PC day and age. Their is a possibility that he might’ve been very controversial.

    I will miss him…

    More likely it’s just consolidation. Honestly, he does four things in total:

    1. Provide comic relief
    2. Provide a disguise for Barristan
    3. Fight Mero
    4. Eat some locusts

    The first can be given to anyone; the second was not wanted. The writers would more likely want to give that kind of fight to Jorah or Barristan so we can see more important characters fight. And the last… well, I’m sure they will worry about that if they ever get there.

  • voicareason,

    Just mentioning something a character does later in this series is a spoiler. You never know when anyone is going to kick the bucket in this series. People kept doing this to me as I was reading the books (mentioning characters’ actions in certain books) and I was so irritated. It’s absolutely a spoiler to say “Oh, I bet this is when so-and-so does this later on”, even if it’s alluded to in the series already, nobody knows if it’s actually going to happen or not.

  • Clob,

    I loved the Dornish chapters on my re-reads, especially when I read AFFC/ADWD simultaneously. Obviously they can trim down on the Sand Snakes, and Quentyn’s journey can be reduced, but other than that I hope they keep the Dornish plot intact, as it will be critical to the story, IMO. Seeing as they already sent Myrcella there and they have name dropped Dorne throughout the series, I have no doubt that they will keep the Dornish.

  • jentario: We need Oberyn, Doran, Arianne, Quenrtn and, I guess, Areo Hotah (since he may become important later and he’s a POV). We should have at least two Sand Snakes as well. Anything less would be a shame IMO.

    I think that is a good condensed list. I love the Martells. I hope they aren’t shafted.

  • I’ve come to terms with it folks, this will give us more time to focus on Dany’s days holding court!!

  • Mike Chair,

    Yes. Belwas brought something to Dany’s story that has been falling away: humor. I am not fanraging, but it is still a sad day. LONG LIVE STRONG BELWAS. He will be missed.

    Is he necessary? Nah. But I have a sad that we get Ros and shit instead.

  • If Barristan or Jorah replace him for the duel, you think they’ll still take a shit on the battle field after they win?

  • Those badmouthing Strong Belwas are dead to me. And I banish your corpses from the realm!

    That being said I expected him to be cut after he wasn’t cast this season.

    If they cut the Red Viper that would screw up the Dorne stuff wouldn’t it? I guess they could try to just have Bronn champion Tyrion but they’d be playing with fire cutting two fan favorites and killing a third. The Unspoiled are already itching to know why House Martell doesn’t like the Lannisters. They need the Viper introduction.

  • Is there a comprehensive list on who wrote, who directed, and who is the DP for each episode in season 3?

  • They gotta keep the Dornish. I’m thinking that their role in the story will only get bigger in the next two books. They are the Targaryens only real allies in Westeros. I expect the revenge of the Martells’ on the Lannisters to play out in a big way at some point. Of course, changes to the story will be made to make their actions in season 5 & 6 more exciting, but there is no way they can cut them all together.

  • The Lightning Lord:
    Is there a comprehensive list on who wrote, who directed, and who is the DP for each episode in season 3?

    Our episode guide has the writers and directors but not the DPs. I don’t think we will know the DPs for sure until the episodes air.

  • And not a single tear was shed. Belwas was a useless and completely replaceable character.

  • superdeluxe,

    That was kind of title spoiler. On the other hand, awesome! Dormer’s a great actor and elementary is one of the few CBS shows I watch.

  • I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Ep4:2 that GRRM is writing will be the Battle at the Wall that Stannis shows up and saves. I’m still not convinced the PW isn’t happening this season, especially with J&M exiting the Great Sept in front of the big crowd in the trailer.

  • Moët,

    That won’t happen until the end of season 4. GRRM has said that most of the 4th season will be ASOS material.

  • Its definitely the PW. And yeah Season 4= SOS still. Atleast for Jon, Stannis, Tyrion, Sansa, and Dany. Every other character may have AFFC/ADWD material, especially Arya, Bran and Theon.

  • I think it is great news that GRRM says that most of the 4th season is still ASOS stuff. This means seasons 5 & 6 will be books 4 & 5, and hopefully we’ll have a Winds of Winter by then so they can go ahead with seasons 7/8!

  • What if they cut Strong Belwas, but are replacing him with Small Belwas? Small Belwas is not the warrior that Strong is, but he does provide the comedic relief that people are so worried about. Aziz Ansari is the ideal casting choice for Small Belwas.

  • Michel: I’m the only who think that Belwas wouldn’t be a waste of money or time? The Dany plot doesn’t have so many characters like King’s Landing plot, and he is funny and most of the book readers like him. Some characters like the the Tyrell brothers (Garlan and Willas Tyrell) I understand because KL has already many characters, but I didn’t understand that.

    this…

  • Yi Ti Ninja,

    Jon & The Wall, Arya getting needle back/killing someone (maybe the Hound dying), Dany & the Dragons, Coldhands, possibly Lady Stoneheart
    … lots of stuff could happen. I think they’ll save it for Season 4 and they’ll be a lot more focus on King’s Landing next season altogether.

  • One scene in particular I’ll miss from the books is his fight in single combat and shitting on the warrior after he kills him. Maybe they wouldn’t go to that much detail in the show if they did it but it was freaky and hilarious in a twisted sense.

  • I care not for Strong Belwas. So I’m not disappointed. Means more screen time for the main cast.

  • Sky Aero:
    I care not for Strong Belwas. So I’m not disappointed. Means more screen time for the main cast.

    More time for Shae, Ros and Talisa you mean :P

  • Ser Hound,

    I could see Jon and the battle for the Wall, but Arya doesnt do much except run around and finally escape to bravos (which wont happen this season). Coldhands maybe, Lady Stoneheart maybe too, but each of those characters arent anything compared to the RW. Coldhands leads Bran to safety and Stoneheart you heard about killings and such usually from others, but neither has the dramatic hit like the RW. Maybe im missing a part that would make a good finale, but it seems wishful to have the PW. They took the first two episodes to build up in S3, idk it jsut doesnt seem right to have PW 4×2 so soon into the season, unless 4×1 had a really, really, really excellent lead off.

    It makes sense to split the weddings up, but damn that means 4 seasons to see joffrey die, while we see Ned, Cat, Robb, along with half the north die in the first 3. Bolton also comes out ahead as well. Many unspoiled will be angry.

  • Maybe GRRM will throw us all a bone and write a Strong Belwas perspective chapter in his next book. It doesn’t need to be long: “Oooh, so hungry! Strong Belwas need raw liver to get fat and strong for little Dragon Queen! But no more honey locusts…Strong Belwas only shits when he wants to, not when honey locusts tell him to shit!”

    Just so long as it’s not the opening or closing chapter of the book…

  • Good!

    Hopefully this will stop the book fans bitching about him “where is he! I want him”

    He isn’t even that important, it’s madnes there is even a facebook page saying boycott the show because of this.

  • Icebird,

    Kovarro could do it.

    Ser Hound:
    I think it is great news that GRRM says that most of the 4th season is still ASOS stuff. This means seasons 5 & 6 will be books 4 & 5, and hopefully we’ll have a Winds of Winter by then so they can go ahead with seasons 7/8!

    Well let’s be honest here. Finishing on episode 6 would qualify as ASOS taking up most of season 4. I expect to at least get Tywin’s funeral, Arya reaching Braavos, and Dragons eating babies by the end of season 4.

  • Before the season started, I wrote down my 20 favorite moments from ASOS to see how many the show would nail.

    Already crossed these off the list –

    – river boat chase culminating in Brienne shoving a boulder off a cliff
    – Battle of the Fist of the First Men
    – Harwin recognizing Arya and kneeling
    – Belwas defeating Oznak and wiping his ass with his cloak

    It’s not a coincidence that the 3 best scenes so far (Tywin dressing down Tyrion, Dany inspecting the Unsullied, Lady Olenna’s conversation with Sansa) are where they’ve stuck closest to the text.

  • That is just sad,cutting Vargo Hoat and the companions left the show with much duller Harren Hall team,not to mention robbed the bear pit scene of overall horror.I don´t have high hopes for the famous Lannister hand accident anymore.

    Strong Belwas was essential for locusts poisoning scene,it´s just so stupid they decided to cut him out!I could have done without Castarks,but i wanted Belwas!And he did not need much screen time either!

  • @Ilia Stark

    How exciting for you to get a screener for the Bear Pit episode. You might be the only one!

  • Ilia Stark,

    If Belwas was essential, then “not needing much screen time” wouldn’t fit. I was looking forward to seeing him, if only for the dumperooski, but they can honestly have any of Dany’s group (of a larger stature) deal with the locust issue.

  • Winterlarks,

    I also do not like the PW being at the beginning of S4. It should be the season finale this season. It is a climactic event that should take place at the end of the season. If it happens at the beginning it doesn’t have the same impact. It would be like having Neds death or the dragon births at the beginning of S2, they wouldn’t have had the same impact on the audience because those events do not belong at the beginning of a season, they are climactic events that the story builds to throughout the season.

  • Matt,

    Some of you are not very good at mapping out story arcs for a season of television. If the PW is at the beginning of S4, what would Tyrion be doing the entire season if he doesn’t escape until the season finale. There is nowhere near enough material for his story at the end of ASOS to be dragged out for an entire season. The same can be said about all the characters actually. All the story arcs will be mostly over by the time this season is done. I have no idea how they plan on dragging the rest of ASOS out for a full season next year. They can’t cover all ASOS this year but 2 full season dedicated to that book is a mistake.

  • Sigh. Really thought we were past the days where a post on here about literally anything brought out the PW in Season 3!!!!! people, but alas I guess we’ll have to wait a couple of months for that. It’s like some think if you post it a thousand times the HBO execs might decide to reshoot the finale and include it.

  • JamesL,

    episode 3 and 4- Tyrion arrested, desperately tries to get witnesses, awaits trial. episode 5 and 6- trial. episode 7- Oberyn vs. Gregor. episode 8- Tyrion in a cell awaiting death (remember Ned did barely anything for all of ep 8 and most of ep 9 in S1 AND it adds to the surprise taking the attention away from him for awhile) ep 9- Tyrion escapes.

  • JamesL,

    I find it interesting how you support the PW for the Season 3 finale and then say Tyrion isn’t going to have enough to do in season 4 if they do it in episode 2.

  • I can’t believe how ungrateful some fans are,

    The books are one thing, the tv show is a different can of worms. You can’t not fit ever little detail, scene of character in the show.

    The show only has ten hours to tell a whole books worth of story.

    Thank the seven that game of thrones isn’t getting the legend of the seeker treatment.

  • They can easily have an entire season’s worth of material from the King’s Landing material post RW in ‘ASOS’.

    Episode 1: The Red Viper and Dornish arrive, as well as Mace Tyrell and his wife.
    Episode 2: We get exposition on the Martells,the story of Elia and her children being killed, and perhaps some Tyrell-Dornish stuff. The final preparations for the wedding. Also included is the morning brunch where Joffrey shreds Tyrion’s gifts and Tyrion pieces together that he sent the assassin to kill Bran.
    Episode 3: The Purple Wedding.
    Episode 4: Tyrion is charged with regicide
    Episodes 5 and 6: Tyrion’s trial
    Episode 7 or 8: The Red Viper vs the Mountain
    Episode 9: Jaime helps Tyrion escape, Tyrion goes on his killing spree
    Episode 10: Aftermath of Tywin’s death

  • There goes my Spicy Honey Roasted Locust, I was so looking forward to.
    Honey Cakes and Lamprey Pie gets boring after repeated mentions on GOT.
    Even the QoT mentions honey cakes, but not the cheese delicacies she’s having.

    Please Please, mention Sister Stew someone. Where is ser Manderly
    when you need him ? Save me, I’m famished (:

  • Valdred Dethstorm: More time for Shae, Ros and Talisa you mean :P

    Which is something i don’t mind. I’d rather see about a whore who’ll rise to power, a whore who (possibly) learns about love or a story of a king and his wife in stead of yet another stereotypical male fighter with a huge appetite.

  • JamesL,

    The climatic event of season 3 will be the RW in ep 9. So far the season is laying the building blocks for this. Ep 10 will be the the aftermath of the RW intercut with Jon reaching the wall and Dany marching on Yunkai. The near confirmation of Lady Stoneheart in 3.10 will be the setup for season 4 which will shockingly unleash the PW in the first couple of episodes. What follows will consist of Tyrion’s trial, the “breakup” of Jaime/Cersei, Cersei consumed with grief, the Red Viper vs the Mountain and then Tyrion’s escape and killing Tywin probably in ep 9. Plenty of material.

  • I am sorry but I’ll never be fine with interesting characters being cut when Ros is in the show.

  • If only we had a completely useless ginger hooker who serves no purpose in the story and takes valuable time away from real characters…

  • Ros has been more important to the show than Belwas is to the books. She is also just an amalgamation of the various whores in the books. She served an important role in allowing the show to have large exposition scenes with the more major characters(Tyrion,Theon,Littlefinger, and Pycelle). Like it or not, the character has been extremely useful to the show, mainly for non-book readers.

  • I feel like they could have cut all the reminders that Littlefinger is a shit (would we have forgotten?) so BELWAS POOP could happen. Alas, friends. It is not to be.

  • NoHeddardStark,

    Nah, it’s gonna be Ser Barristan, that way the viewer can see how bad ass of a fighter he is.
    A knight in his fifties (on foot) taking on the mounted champion of a city, it gives me goosebumps on how awesome that scene could be if set up and done with HBO’s usual excellence.

  • Moët:
    @Valdred Dethstorm

    Please tell us about your time on set.

    Oh, it was quite fun to be honest.

    FYI:
    I’m not a hater. I love the show.
    But that doesn’t mean that I’ll like every change and that I’ll have unconditional love for D&D, you know?
    For every scene that makes me cringe or roll my eyes, there’s three or four awesome scenes. It’s a mixed bag, and I prefer the books, but the show still has its place in my heart :P

  • I’ve settled for a lot of cutting fav characters out of the series… I’ll even settle for Belwas..

    But if they cut the Red Viper… I’m driving up to HBO’s headquarters and BURNING that MOTHER Fer DOWN!

    as shown below:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgQzZbNxZZ0

    I agree with the statements that Barristan fighting the champion and letting viewers finally see how badass he is would be awesome. Since in the books we simply hear stories of it from recaps of him cutting down 3 guys to escape King’s Landing, cutting thru the Golden Company, etc. Would be AWESOME to see it on screen.

    Will still miss how funny it was in the books when Belwas took a deuce after killing the knight though. (Didn’t cover that since it isn’t a spoiler, technically, right?) :(

    I wonder how they’ll illustrate that Hizdar zo Loraq tried to poison Dany without Belwas eating the locusts. Probably some other slave… or Missandei?

  • Now we’ll never have the actor portraying him doing a toilet paper commercial, “Strong Belwas approves! Softer than a knight’s cloak!” (good night y’all)

  • sunspear,

    Thats because I think they should start covering AFFC/ADWD in S4. I don’t like the idea of dragging the story out in order to give GRRM more time to write.

  • KingJon:
    Now we’ll never have the actor portraying him doing a toilet paper commercial, “Strong Belwas approves! Softer than a knight’s cloak!” (good night y’all)

    LMAO someone please make a jpeg of that

  • I enjoyed parts of Belwas in the books, but he really isn’t necessary.

    I think it would be good to have Barristan replace his big fight.. cut out the turd, it was funny but it would be really bad ass to actually see “the Bold” in action. We have heard so much about his skill with a sword, but the show needs to SHOW it. As for comic relief, we can get that anywhere… Daario, Missandei, some other random characters.
    And if D&D change their mind, they can always have him come up later.

    I also agree PW probably won’t be shown this season… I agree with the posters who said it would be good to let it fester between 3 and 4. It will make its impact all the more delightful. I am not sure it will be episode 2, but I agree it will be relatively early in Season 4. That’s nice, because I think it breaks up the structure of the show a bit… instead of expecting the big death/event to occur in Episode 9. Keeps everyone on their toes.

    Not sure what merits season 4 ep 9 though. Any thoughts?

  • Tyrion Pimpslap:
    They can easily have an entire season’s worth of material from the King’s Landing material post RW in ‘ASOS’.

    Episode 1: The Red Viper and Dornish arrive, as well as Mace Tyrell and his wife.
    Episode 2: We get exposition on the Martells,the story of Elia and her children being killed, and perhaps some Tyrell-Dornish stuff. Thefinal preparations for the wedding. Also included is the morning brunch where Joffrey shreds Tyrion’s gifts and Tyrion pieces together that he sent the assassin to kill Bran.
    Episode 3: The Purple Wedding.
    Episode 4: Tyrion is charged with regicide
    Episodes 5 and 6: Tyrion’s trial
    Episode 7 or 8: The Red Viper vs the Mountain
    Episode 9: Jaime helps Tyrion escape, Tyrion goes on his killing spree
    Episode 10: Aftermath of Tywin’s death

    Sorry, but that is way too much stalling. Tyrion is charged with regicide right after the wedding, that isn’t getting it’s own episode. And the Oberyn/Gregor fight is only long enough for one episode.

    Monstadon,

    PW is pretty deep into ASOS saving that for the beginning of next season is hardly dragging out the story.

  • And I also believe that Barristan or Jorah could take Belwas’s place in single combat outside of Mereen. How cool would it be if they argued with each other and with Dany to get her to pick them so they could prove themselves. Personally, I would love a scene of Barristan the Bold in action in single combat.but then again the could play up his defeat of the Titan’s Bastard, and let Jorah handle the pompous knight Either way the change could be sweet.

  • That is probably a good thing. Characters like him can be endearing on paper, but would come across as ridiculous and cheesy onsreen. I liked him in the book but this is the right choice.

  • Ryan E:
    That is probably a good thing.Characters like him can be endearing on paper, but would come across as ridiculous and cheesy onsreen.I liked him in the book but this is the right choice.

    I doubt he could be any more ridiculous or cheesy than Talisa.

  • voicareason:
    Yes! So glad he’s cut. He just got irritating at a certain point, and there’s only one scene where he’s actually important (which is probably cut anyway because it was unnecessary)

    Moreover, the most hilarious thing he does in that scene is not going to make it to the show. HBO or not, they are not going to show us a 300 lb man bending over and shitting in their general direction.

    So, really – who cares?

  • sunspear,

    Tyrion will be arrested during the episode, but he won’t be formally charged until later. I didn’t even mention Joffrey’s funeral and Jaime returning to KL in my blueprint. It is not stretching that storyline out at all. It lends itself perfectly to a full season arc.

  • JamesL:
    sunspear,

    Thats because I think they should start covering AFFC/ADWD in S4. I don’t like the idea of dragging the story out in order to give GRRM more time to write.

    But I really don’t think their main concern is with keeping a constant pace for each character or with giving GRRM more time to write. It’s with giving each character a satisfactory arc each season. The books often do the same, which is why – even if it means slowing some characters down – they’re unlikely to delve too deeply into Books 4 and 5 next season.

    In the case of Tyrion, do you honestly think it’s more likely that he’ll kill Tywin and escape Westeros mid-S4, and then end the season wandering down the Rhoyne, or that they’ll fill S4 with the back half of his ASOS arc and have him kill Tywin towards the end and finish with his escape? I have very little doubt in my mind they’ll go for the latter because it makes for a much, much better story arc, even if it means there’s less Tyrion in S4. They don’t have to show him every episode – most characters don’t appear in every episode, even the most popular ones. They’ve shown a willingness to give popular characters very little screen time when the story calls for it, and I have no reason to think they’ll do otherwise with Tyrion just because he won an Emmy or something. They seem to be above that.

  • Biscotti:
    I enjoyed parts of Belwas in the books, but he really isn’t necessary.
    I am not sure it will be episode 2, but I agree it will be relatively early in Season 4. That’s nice, because I think it breaks up the structure of the show a bit… instead of expecting the big death/event to occur in Episode 9. Keeps everyone on their toes.

    That. So much that. While the books have made this “big event in Ep 9″ structure a natural choice, it really is stereotypical HBO and is becoming stereotypical GoT. The PW is a really perfect opportunity to remind the viewers that this show doesn’t follow such a simple script. I’m fully expecting it to be in the first few episodes of S4, and am looking forward to it!

  • sunspear: Sorry, but that is way too much stalling. Tyrion is charged with regicide right after the wedding, that isn’t getting it’s own episode. And the Oberyn/Gregor fight is only long enough for one episode.

    haha sorry if it seems I’m picking on you, don’t mean to. But – of course none of those are getting their own episode. There are 1,214 other characters to fill up each episode! Having 1-2 or even 0 Tyrion scenes in an episode is completely par for the course with everything this show’s done so far.

    Also, Tyrion Pimpslap said Episode 7 OR 8 for the Mountain/Oberyn fight, so no disagreement about it “only” taking up one episode there.

  • Adam: … which is why – even if it means slowing some characters down – they’re unlikely to delve too deeply into Books 4 and 5 next season.

    While I agree with your general observation, I would point out that in one respect, we will be getting Book 5 ADwD in Bran’s story arc in Season 4. Alternatively, they are going to **make something up in its entirety** and radically change that story arc as far as Osha and Rickon are concerned (which seems entirely likely at this stage).

    Why? Because the season previews show us Samwell Tarly in the Nightfort.

  • Quowala,

    Doesn’t Joff get married in season 3, as in like episode 5. I’m pretty sure his wedding is in like the first half of book 3.

    Also dafuq about sploilers? If you haven’t read the books you don’t even know who strong Belwas is and if you have spoilers don’t apply to you!

  • chris,

    No. His wedding is about two thirds of the way into ASOS. It happens after the RW. Tyrion and Sansa get married fairly early in the book, but their wedding was moved to episode 8 of season 3.

  • Good LORD. Yes he is writing the PW. AND NO! The PW will NOT be this season. Buy a frickin clue. Do any of you have any idea of how TV works or maybe you’re just trolling? I’ve said it like I’ve said TV Shae won’t betray Tyrion, PW will be early in season four with the Tywin killing in episode 9. TV Shae will be killed or sent away to take the place of Tysha. NO BETRAYAL. You guys HAVE TO BEGIN TO LOOK AT THIS SERIES AS A TV WRITER LOOKING TO TAKE SHORTCUTS AND MAKE THE STORY MAKE SENSE TO YOUR GRANDMA! BREAK THE STORY DOWN LIKE A 7TH GRADER WRITING AN ESSAY ON ICE AND FIRE. You must CUT and COMBINE as much as possible. Sorry for the rant, but otherwise intelligent people are really looking like fools on this site. LOWER YOUR EXPECTATIONS. IT’S CLOUDING YOUR JUDGEMENT.

  • Hope they keep Jorah M on – sorry Strong B. ive actually enjoyed many of the hbo changes to the books – eg tywin and arya at harrenhal. and huzzah Diana Rigg!!

  • i don’t give a shit about Strong Belvas. for me it’s better not to cut some dornishmen. for example Dark Star

  • I’m hoping they introduce Arianne’s arc and the Ironborn’s Kingsmoot/Euron in season 4 ahead of “schedule”. I think this would work well. And it would preserve the twist in the first one I mentioned. If they keep Quentyn’s arc, I see no reason why it couldn’t be introduced in season 5.

  • Obviously, Belwas is filler.

    With that being said, I always thought he was a funny character, but filler nonetheless.

    Plus, he’s probably a little too over the top for TV (much the same as Vargo Hoat). It’s one thing to imagine a goofy/crazy character like that, but it’s another thing entirely to bring him to life onscreen, in convincing fashion. It would be really easy to fuck that up. And what makes the TV adaptation so great is how real it feels. Add one too many bizarro-characters, and it comes off looking contrived.

  • There are a lot of people posting here like Belwas was obviously a weak character and worthy of being cut, and yet also seeming to think they are the first/only person to reach this conclusion. This is cognitive dissonance. Or mild trolling.

    I’m in the I-love-him-but-I-completely-understand-cutting-him clique. No one else in the entirety of ASoIaF gives less of a fuck than Strong Belwas. It is the singular reason that, simultaneously, he is great and why he can be cut. So it goes.

    As for this reawakened hullabaloo over pacing…
    GRRM created an amazing story by having people die before they were supposed to, by having awesome schemes fizzle out, and generally toying with the reader’s ability to predict things. In this way he created a realistic story set in a fantasy world. I think folks saying that certain things need to happen at certain times because [finales need a big moment/you can’t do something big in a premiere/audiences need to feel good/audiences expect ___ ] are missing the point of what makes the story so great. It doesn’t unfold in the same patterns that so many others stories do.

    The only predictions we can make can only be based in the order of the plot and how much time events need to breathe onscreen. We are all going to need a substantial breather after the RW.

  • I doubt his specific role will be overtaken by Selmy. It wil be Dario, it is great oportunity to show Dany feeling/lust toward him. They can show her reluctance to risk his life, her being scared during the fight, her relieve after his victory and end episode with hot sex scene between them.

  • Yeah, so I was going to get all sarcastic with the “NOOOOOoo! Not Strong Belwas!”es and so forth…but then I noticed that over on another thread, people are lamenting the lack of Lem Lemoncloak. Without irony.

    So, thus forced once more to confront the fact that one reader’s Favorite Tertiary Character is another reader’s “Who?,” I shall instead just offer my sympathies to all of Belwas’s fans, and leave it at that.

  • afartherroom:
    So, thus forced once more to confront the fact that one reader’s Favorite Tertiary Character is another reader’s “Who?,” I shall instead just offer my sympathies to all of Belwas’s fans, and leave it at that.

    Winner.

  • This is not surprising, since this show has become David Benioff & D. B. Weiss’ creation and looking less and less GRRM’s as every episode goes. I suppose I shouldn’t blame D&D to claim ownership, seeing as the only thing the two are known for before GoT is one of them wrote Troy and X-Men Origins: Wolverine. With the growing amount of characters that D&D have ruined, I’m glad Belwas has been cut. If only the likes of Robb, Catelyn, Jon, Qhorin Halfhand, Shae and Littlefinger have all been cut from the beginning, if I’ve known how poor of a job D&D have done to those characters.

    Okay now I said my piece. I’m ready for the beating from you tv show fundamentalists are sure going to give me.

  • I found it to be pretty obvious that Belwas was to be cut. He doesn’t really do anything important in the books that you can’t have another, more significant character do and the show is already extremely crowded with characters by TV series standards.

    I like Belwas in the books but that’s not really a relevant reason to want him in there. I think you have to look at it from a TV show perspective, otherwise I’d probably do myself a disservice by even watching at all.

  • The Purist:
    This is not surprising, since this show has become David Benioff & D. B. Weiss’ creation and looking less and less GRRM’s as every episode goes.I suppose I shouldn’t blame D&D to claim ownership, seeing as the only thing the two are known for before GoT is one of them wrote Troy and X-Men Origins: Wolverine. With the growing amount of characters that D&D have ruined, I’m gladBelwas has been cut. If only the likes of Robb, Catelyn, Jon, Qhorin Halfhand, Shae and Littlefinger have all been cut from the beginning, if I’ve known how poor of a job D&D have done to those characters.

    Okay now I said my piece. I’m ready for the beating from you tv show fundamentalists are sure going to give me.

    I say this as someone who can very honestly say the only movie I have ever utterly and purely hated is Troy…there’s no such thing as a [GoT]TV fundamentalist. That ruins the principles of the word fundamental. Words matter.

  • I was expecting Belwas to be cut, really…too relatively unimportant. Can’t really say I’m sorry to see him go, either. Too one-sided, too much testosterone-only for me. Got plenty of those already. Also, bring him onscreen as he is in the books, and you have the colored-people-are-being-portrayed-as-too-stupid crowd up in the curtains again. Make him more layered and the book fans will screech about another butchered character. Nah. Good choice.

    I’m kinda hoping GRRM has written that spectacular choking affair. Seems a bit on the early side though? The Martells have to be present for that to happen. Oh well. Twill work out, no doubt :)

  • There are budget constraints as we all know, but I think it now makes it clear/gives us the foresight that the allusion towards Magister Illyrio’s intentions in sending Dany the boats/Belwas/Arstan are pointless, with the cutting of Belwas and that whole scenario that played out no longer being present they have managed to swerve a chunk of story that mustn’t have been going anywhere. Either that or they are going to take massively away from something GRRM is going to write about in the new books. I can’t see they would want to/he would be happy with a significant change though – there haven’t actually been any (cue the lynching) as of yet in my opinion…

  • Amazing how many people here are upset that they won’t see an obese character take a dump on TV.

  • JonSnow83:
    There are budget constraints as we all know, but I think it now makes it clear/gives us the foresight that the allusion towards Magister Illyrio’s intentions in sending Dany the boats/Belwas/Arstan are pointless, with the cutting of Belwas and that whole scenario that played out no longer being present they have managed to swerve a chunk of story that mustn’t have been going anywhere.Either that or they are going to take massively away from something GRRM is going to write about in the new books.I can’t see they would want to/he would be happy with a significant change though – there haven’t actually been any (cue the lynching) as of yet in my opinion…

    But we’ve already seen Illyrio’s intentions towards Dany in S1. Just because the TV show doesn’t have a particular reminder that’s in the books doesn’t mean it’s not important down the line. And besides, I can guarantee you if Barristan and co. had shown up on a boat saying “hey, Illyrio sent us, let’s go to Pentos!”, figuratively everyone who hasn’t read the books would be like “who’s Illyrio? What’s a Pentos?”. That particular reminder would not have worked or been necessary.

  • never been a fan of the character but i suppose barristan will take his place in the duel outside the walls of yunkai. or mereen, i can’t remember

  • Okay, all the people who say that 402 is the Purple Wedding are totally off the chain. PW is 310, it makes total sense. The ep title is Mhysa, it means both Dany’s slave chant and Joffrey crying out ‘mother’ as he chokes and dies. Joff dying has to end the season, RW is 309. PW is way more cliffhangery cuz it will end with Tyrion accused and Joffrey dead – huge emotional turmoil for the viewers – happy that Joff is dead, terrified because it looks like Tyrion did it. WHY do people think it’s 402?

  • Okay, the ONLY way the PW won’t happen in 310 is if they decide to focus on Dany and Zombiecat. Cuz Dany is a Mhysa/Mother and Zombiecat is also a Mhysa-Mother. See aftermath of RW early episode, see Beric finding the body and being like oh crap partway through, then Dany stuff, then final scene is random Frey getting owned, and final shot is Zombiecat speaks. That would adequately f*ck up the show-viewers.

  • Jacarb: I’m in the I-love-him-but-I-completely-understand-cutting-him clique. No one else in the entirety of ASoIaF gives less of a fuck than Strong Belwas. It is the singular reason that, simultaneously, he is great and why he can be cut. So it goes.

    Haha, well said. But you’ve made me sad again. Eh, fuck it. I will always have the books :)

  • For the love of god the purple wedding is not this year… please stop with the wishful thinking

  • joeschmoe08,

    ‘Mhysa’ refers to one thing and one thing only, and that is the slaves crying out to Dany. Besides, Joffrey never cries out ‘mother’. Cersei’s crazy ass only thinks he does. And even if he did in the books, it is clear that TV Joffrey is not a momma’s boy anymore.

  • joeschmoe08,

    They confirmed “Weddings”, they never said the number, just that there was more than one. There will be two wedding, not three.

  • Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Dude, that’s the whole point. Episode titles often have double meanings – the more the better. Look at Valar Dohaeris, applied to a ton of scenes in that episode. The fact that Joff is NOT being a Mama’s Boy means that he WILL be one in his final moments. When all his posturing is stripped away, he’ll cry out for his mom like a little punk.

    I can see it being my second theory though – Mhysa meaning both Dany’s victory and Cat’s resurrection as undead mother of vengeance. That might be more likely at this point.

  • Notice, though, that Olenna’s conversation with Sansa could well be setting up the PW this season. No way to tell, though. The heavy amount of Margaery material along with introduction of Olenna would arc better with PW hitting in 310, but we’ll see. Of course, it could be all three – zombie cat, PW, and Mhysa – but that would be a very packed episode.

  • joeschmoe08,

    No Mace Tyrell = No PW. Mace Tyrell has not yet been cast. And considering his character is important(future Hand of the King) and has been name dropped, they won’t simply use an extra for him. And that isn’t even mentioning the Red Viper. The PW is an event that needs to be most of the focus for an episode. The season finale has to touch base with every character. There is no way they rush the PW by putting it in the finale.

  • joeschmoe08:
    Notice, though, that Olenna’s conversation with Sansa could well be setting up the PW this season. No way to tell, though. The heavy amount of Margaery material along with introduction of Olenna would arc better with PW hitting in 310, but we’ll see. Of course, it could be all three – zombie cat, PW, and Mhysa – but that would be a very packed episode.

    No chance without the Viper cast.

    I can actually seem them leaving Stoneheart out till mid season 4

  • I think that D&D are going to have just as hard of a time eliminating characters in the show as George had writing their ends. In some cases I’d be okay with them stringing out some storylines longer, but for others I’d hate it. Theon as an example, even though he survives in a manner, is rarely in the books from here on yet I feel like the show is going to drag him along because they like Alfie. Having said that, even if they feel certain events would fit at certain times I sometimes think they’ll put them off as long as possible to retain good actors. /shrug

  • PW being 402 would be fine for me. The aftermath of the RW(including UnCat?), Dany and Jon with the attack of the wildlings is sure enough for one episode. 401 will be introduction of Oberyn and Mace. 407 or 408 The Red Viper vs. The Mountain and 409 will probably be the Battle at the Wall. This has been kind of confirmed by D&D here: http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/game-of-thrones-producers-say-season-3-as-big-as-were-going-to-get

    That said, the ninth episode of season 3 will focus on a smaller group of characters, while they expect in season 4(*) to do a battle even bigger than in “Blackwater.”



    A battle even bigger than Blackwater can only mean The Wall with Stannis arriving at the end. That would be a nice deja-vu compared to Blackwater.

    Tyrion escaping and killing Tywin and Shae would be in the final episode.

  • Some episode titles have two or more meanings and some do not. There’s really no way of telling which it will be with ‘Mhysa’

  • Soooo … not even a replacement character? Who will eat the poisoned locusts?

    Whatever, the whole Daenerys storyline has been completely turned upside down anyway. I don’t foresee it being similar to the books until she gets out of Slaver’s Bay … hopefully she dies of Grayscale. She’s starting to get more annoying than Andrea in the tv series. Just kill her off and give the dragons to Aegon. Aegon is a good name for a king.

  • I still don’t believe, although he appeared in season one, that Illyrio is a relevant character any more. He acts on behalf of Viserys to sell Dany to Drogo. Am just speculating though tbh – he could still be pivotal, only GRRM/D&D know for sure…
    I’m calling PW to be season 4, episode 1 and RV vs Mountain season 4 episode 2. If I was GRRM that’s the episode I would want to pen. It’s going to be epic!

  • joeschmoe08:

    Dude, that’s the whole point. Episode titles often have double meanings – the more the better. Look at Valar Dohaeris, applied to a ton of scenes in that episode. The fact that Joff is NOT being a Mama’s Boy means that he WILL be one in his final moments. When all his posturing is stripped away, he’ll cry out for his mom like a little punk.


    I can see it being my second theory though – Mhysa meaning both Dany’s victory and Cat’s resurrection as undead mother of vengeance. That might be more likely at this point.

    I try not to read too much into episode titles. Last season some of the titles seemed to have nothing to do with the events in the actual episode.

    However, I also think that the finale may give us our first glimpse of Lady Stoneheart. In this instance, I think that “Mhysa” may have more than one meaning. Perhaps the character will be called “Mother” in the show and not LS. And, just like in the books, the viewer will not know how this happened.

    I’m not sure if that’s the best way/time to handle that reveal but I think it is a possibility.

  • For those book-readers who are wondering if the Purple Wedding is happening in season 3 or season 4, here’s a photo comparison from the season 3 trailer for you:

    http://postimg.org/image/lmj5ngnl1/

    On the left – “Hi everyone, it’s me Joffrey in my big ol’ crown, flowing robes with draping sleeves, and a nice shoulder sash, walking Sansa down the aisle to give her away at her wedding.”

    On the right – “Hi everyone, it’s me Joffrey in my form-fitting tunic with thin sleeves, no sash, and no crown, walking out of the wedding chapel with my new bride.”

  • Was re-reading the books because why not and something occurred to me. To the people saying Belwas would be ridiculous, or Hoat… Hodor could have been ridiculous. Hell, any number of characters. I think it’s just a matter of streamlining. Sad am I, but I understand.

  • I think a good part of why I like the Strong Belwas character so much is due to the audiobooks read by Roy Dotrice… the voice is just so perfect haha

  • Ned,

    Bullshit. Even the GoT producers said piracy is a “compliment”. Its the reason why the show is even popular. Everytime there is piracy of a show, word of mouth spreads, and the very next season ratings spike! Not to mention the merchandise and video sales.

  • Here’s to hoping someone more ambitious than me gets a group of fans to do a Strong Belwas flashmob during this year’s game of thrones panel at Comicon

  • No complains as I understand the reasoning fully. However, I could have done without two things in the story and added Belwas quickly into the fray (not Frey) pun intended. 1. Alot of the added “man love” with The Knight of Roses (Loras) and all his man on man bromances could have been shortened a few inches- errr minutes for me. However I know the audience of gay men watch this show for that alone and it makes for great ratings, expanding mindsets and wider fan base. 2. The torturing of Theon, most of it wasnt explicitly applied in the novels or even at all and made me really uncomfortable, so I guess the intentions succeeded there as well. I would have had subtle quick shots and dialogue adding Strong Belwas. Show him only in awesome Cameos as in the books. Especially the following scene I have attached from Google that describes my favorite brilliantly from WIKI ASOIAF.

    When Daenerys besieges Meereen, Oznak zo Pahl rides out of the city on a white charger with a fourteen foot lance, challenging the besiegers to send forth a champion. Daenerys decides that Belwas is perfect since she can easily spare him, his death as an ex-slave would not give Oznak prestige, and a defeat to an ex-slave would be an insult. Belwas wounds Oznak’s horse in the duel, leading to a sword fight. Belwas allows himself to be wounded in the stomach before he kills Oznak, severs his head, and holds it up high for those in Meereen to see. The defenders of the city fire arrows, but Belwas is too far away. He squats to defecate towards the city, wipes himself on Oznak’s cloak, loots the corpse and kills the horse. Because Daenerys had lost her husband Drogo to a similar wound, she forces the reluctant Belwas to be treated for his wound by a Yunkish freeman known for his healing skills when he returns to camp.[3]

    He finds Dothraki “horse boys” to be amusing opponents. He clams to have killed many of them in the fighting pits, and their bells jingle while they die. [1]
    “ I let each man cut me once, before I kill him. Count the cuts and you will know how many Strong Belwas has slain. [1] ”
    “ Bad fighting, good dying. Strong Belwas hates it when they scream. [9] ”

    Long live Belwas!!!!

  • Bastard o Barristan,

    Oh yeah I left something out. If Loras and the gay themes were designed to really herd in the gay audience to the show, what about the obese, blad, gluttonous, and loud men who love to fight, thats ever other man in the world. Just sayin- I see dalla bills Georgie!!! Or in this case Golden Dragons, and not the ones that breath fire, that pay Westerosi bills. :)

  • I think that 4/2 is a tad early for the PW, don’t you think? They’ll need the entire length of 4/1 to remind people of the main cast, after a full year of break. PW in 4/2 would be kinda rushed, imho.

  • What people miss about Belwas is that he reflects a lot about Dany’s leadership. He’s the only one that believes in her with no ulterior agenda or obligation. She didn’t free him, she wasn’t his Khaleesi, he’s not in love with her, and he’s not trying to make up for betraying her family. Add that to the fact that he’s one of the most unique characters in the book and this is a pretty big loss for the show. Understandable maybe, but I was really looking forward to his debut. As for the character potentially coming off as ridiculous, if they could pull of Melisandre queefing a demon, they could’ve pulled of Strong Belwas.