Interview

David Benioff and Dan Weiss tease “one of the best combat scenes we’ve done so far”

mountain

In Sunday’s episode of Game of Thrones, Oberyn Martell volunteered himself as Tyrion’s champion in his trial by combat. This will not be an easy undertaking, as Oberyn will face the Lannister’s formidable choice, The Mountain. However, he will finally have the opportunity for vengeance against the man he believes raped and murdered his sister, Elia.

After shooting the combat sequence last fall, showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss spoke with Entertainment Weekly. The pair say that when the show returns after next weekend’s Memorial Day break, viewers will be treated to possibly the best combat scene they’ve done so far.

Weiss says, “It’s not just people hacking at each other with spears and swords. It’s the culmination of 20 years of anger and hatred and thirst for vengeance coming to a head in this amazing set piece that [stunt coordinator Paul Herbert and swordmaster C.C. Smiff] have put together. The fight delivers beyond our expectations.”

Game of Thrones is no stranger to on screen battles, but this particular one has some of the highest stakes ever, with Tyrion’s life hanging in the balance.

    VIDEO: Winter is Coming Live: Tyrion’s Champion Presents Himself

Weiss says he knew that this pivotal moment in the story would be a high point if done properly, and discusses the challenges of creating the scene.

“The Mountain is The Mountain — you need to find an enormous human being who can also deliver what you need on physical front. And you need an Oberyn who delivers what you need as an actor and pull off the extremely strenuous side of that fight, which we shot over several days. We were lucky to find Pedro Pascal for Oberyn, who gives such a stunning, fun, and dangerous performance. And Hafþór for The Mountain is a truly unusual specimen…To see somebody who is 6′ 9″ and moving the way he does in person is a surreal sight to behold.”

For the full article, visit Enterainment Weekly.

108 Comments

  • WTF D&D! The duel should be hands down the best one on one fight scene in the history of television, anything less would be a disservice to the show. It must be a scene talked about for decades whenever people discuss the best fight scenes ever shown on screen.

  • It’s going to be good. However, I do feel they fucked up with leaving the Mountain out so much. Was it so hard to name his atrocities once in a while? And more importantly, why didn’t they have the Mountain run into Brienne or Arya or any of the other characters in the Riverlands this season? Would have been far better than that clunky random peasant execution intro.

    Joseph Galloway: [narrating] Some had families waiting. For others, their only family would be the men they bled beside. There were no bands, no flags, no Honor Guards to welcome them home. They went to war because their country ordered them to. But in the end, they fought not for their country or their flag, they fought to cast Mads Mikkelsen as Euron.

  • One of the best“? If it’s not “the best“, you haven’t done it right.

  • Sometimes I have to take a step back and reflect on just how amazing a read A Storm of Swords was. 14 years ago, Voyager/Bantam was prepping it for release (Aug/Nov 2000). Just wow.

    Go Team Shireen!

  • StrokemeMarg:
    WTF D&D! The duel should be hands down the best one on one fight scene in the history of television, anything less would be a disservice to the show. It must be a scene talked about for decades whenever people discuss the best fight scenes ever shown on screen.

    This. this. This.

    I usually don’t like fights or battle scenes, whether it be in books, or screens. I find them somewhat boring. But this one? I was literally on the edge of my seat. I was drinking every word, every movement, every sentence. The flow of the fighters, the rage, the bursting emotion. It was poetry with a spear. I think this is when Oberyn became my favourite character. It wasn’t his fantastic arrival, nor the reveal he would champion for Tyrion, but this.

  • Veltigar: It’s going to be good. However, I do feel they fucked up with leaving the Mountain out so much. Was it so hard to name his atrocities once in a while? And more importantly, why didn’t they have the Mountain run into Brienne or Arya or any of the other characters in the Riverlands this season? Would have been far better than that clunky random peasant execution intro.

    I agree. They had the perfect opportunity to show us the cruelty of the Mountain with the reaving of the Riverlands. At the very least, in the times we have seen the burning land, they could have said it was him.

    I don’t think he should have met Arya, or Brienne. It’s important to show that if you meet Gregor Clegane, you won’t come out alive. An almost encounter with the Hound would have been great though. The inn scene could have been used for this.

  • MOTHER OF DUELS.bring it on. If Godzilla and Mothra watch it and feel like lesser men then you did it justice.If not you failed..

  • I am setting my expectations lower, so as not to be disappointed if it isn’t as good as I imagined. How much detail will go into the fight sequence? Will we see Oberyn’s strategy? Will we see him putting his back to the sun? Will we see him keeping his distance and wearing out the Mountain? Will we see him jabbing at the chinks in the Mountain’s armor? At his knees and shoulders? The shot in the preview where Oberyn swings his spear as though it was a staff and the Mountain blocks it with his sword has me a bit worried that the choreography won’t make much sense. The Mountain could easily break the spear if Oberyn did that.

  • Everyone here who is expressing their worries about the scene should actually read the article. David and Dan make it very clear they know how important it is (‘been planning since Season 1’). They also say it exceeded their expectations and it is ‘one of the best, if not the best’ fights they have ever done. I know youre worried but you should actually get the full story first.

  • StrokemeMarg:
    WTF D&D! The duel should be hands down the best one on one fight scene in the history of television, anything less would be a disservice to the show. It must be a scene talked about for decades whenever people discuss the best fight scenes ever shown on screen.

    With a thinking like that, i promise you, you will be disappointed.

  • Not to be a dick but none of the fights this series shot were impressive, some were okay, like the Hound vs Beric with that flaming sword. I mean it was adequate but nothing I had to find on YouTube.

    IMO the Jaime vs Brienne fight was lame as hell. Was very disappointed.

    So for D&D to say this will be one of the best fights in the series, IMO isn’t really a high bar.

    Why would they use the same stunt guys? Wouldn’t you want to bring in someone special to coordinate this sequence?

    Oh well, I’ll just try to be happy with what we get even though my fear is that I’ll be underwhelmed.

  • Las Vegas is taking bets on Oberyn the prince of Dorne for 5 million. I got a $100 on The Mountain that rides of House Clegane.

    Who will win?

    *cue Eye Of The Vyper song*

    Mr.Mountain is there anything you would like to say to Oberyn? “I will break you”

    Oberyn anything you would like to say? “Yo Eliaaaaa”.

    There you have it folks! 2 weeks! One great event! Who will be The undesputed champ?

  • Veltigar,

    Yeah, I was thinking something cool like, in episode 6: Brienne and Pod run into a group of Lannister soldiers headed back to King’s Landing led by the Mountain. They are torturing peasants (maybe peasants seen earlier in the season; innkeep from Episode 1? that dude and his daughter from episode 3?) to get information about the Hound’s location. Brienne and Pod are appropriately horrified but are helpless to intervene. The Mountain, accepting that Brienne and Pod are under Lannister protection, tells them that he is returning to the capital and that the Hound is out in the Riverlands with a little girl and has killed five Lannister soldiers.

    So that when they meet Hotpie at the Inn in the next episode, they could put the pieces together that the Hound has escaped from the Brotherhood, and the girl they heard about before matches the description of Arya Stark, making it actually make sense for them to decide to go to the Eyrie.

  • Veltigar:
    It’s going to be good. However, I do feel they fucked up with leaving the Mountain out so much. Was it so hard to name his atrocities once in a while? And more importantly, why didn’t they have the Mountain run into Brienne or Arya or any of the other characters in the Riverlands this season? Would have been far better than that clunky random peasant execution intro.

    yep. i don’t think this guy can act for shit though so maybe it’s for the better. i believe his line last episode (‘who am i fighting’) was actually dubbed, if you look closely you can see it’s not perfectly synced (or maybe i’m seeing things).

  • Veltigar:
    It’s going to be good. However, I do feel they fucked up with leaving the Mountain out so much. Was it so hard to name his atrocities once in a while? And more importantly, why didn’t they have the Mountain run into Brienne or Arya or any of the other characters in the Riverlands this season? Would have been far better than that clunky random peasant execution intro.

    They didn’t fuck anything up. They were SMART! Obviously they picked this guy up because they needed a mountain that would look physically huge and play a specific part. Having The mountain run into Arya or Briene would mean the death of those Two so be realistic. All we need is a champion for cercie that is feared and let this mountain do the talking by action during the combat. No more, no less.

  • The episode synopsis mentions Roose Bolton! :D YEEAAAAAAAAAAAH

    Ahem. Excuse me.

    As far as the duel goes, I can’t imagine them doing justice to my mental version. They certainly didn’t come close with Jaime/Brienne last year

    I’m still excited to see it but I’m trying to keep my expectations at a reasonable level. That usually helps me be as impressed as possible.

  • It’s a great fight in the books, but what makes it so awesome is Oberyn’s passion and “trash talking”, for lack of a better word. Not to mention Tyrion’s internal monologue going on at the time.

  • Alex Graves did a bad work with the fight between The Hound and Dondarrion so I’m sceptical about that fight.

  • Completely OT, but I was just reading comments for a recap on another site (because they are freakin hilaaaaaarious) and I just have to say the following:

    THANK YOU.

    Seriously. You guys rock, and I don’t mean the authors/editors here (though you guys rock, too!). This is the only ASOIAF/GoT site I visit because of the people who participate, the breadth of opinions and ideas you all bring to this table, the intelligence and wit you possess, and most importantly (for me), the ability to engage in discussion instead of everyone just screaming at everyone else.

    So, yeah. Thanks for the awesome. :D

  • Zack,

    In their defense, much of the impact left on us after Jaime and Brienne’s fight was primarily through the eyes and thoughts of Jaime, which would be difficult to convey on screen. The trial by combat scene was written from Tyrion’s POV, a spectator, just as we will be. I don’t think you should worry based on your comparison.

  • kdenn1020,

    That’s a great point and you could well be right. My big problem with the Brienne/Jaime fight, aside from its brevity (which was always going to be an issue with adapting that fight), is that it seems to do a poor job of establishing Jaime as one of the top fighters in the world, compared to the text. I wish it had been a more even contest.

    But….this fight, between the Viper and Mountain, they’re almost definitely going to work really hard to make it seem like either combatant could win. I hope it captures how tense I was reading it the first time.

  • Hmm what if Euron has already been cast

    Spoilers from a reddit thread:
    In the show: Daario captures the Meereenese fleet during the siege of Meereen, something he wasn’t ordered to do. Ironborn strength is at sea.

    Book:
    Daario captures “93” ships:”He had set sail from the Shields with ninety-three, of the hundred that had once made up the Iron Fleet” – From the beginning of “The Iron Suitor” Chapter in ADWD

  • StrokemeMarg:
    WTF D&D! The duel should be hands down the best one on one fight scene in the history of television, anything less would be a disservice to the show. It must be a scene talked about for decades whenever people discuss the best fight scenes ever shown on screen.

    I agree but at the same time, D&D were even hesitant to call season 4 the best one thus far. I assume their modesty and self-doubt just leads them to intentionally lower others’ expectations so as to not get them disappointed.

    I am confident the fight will be one to remember.

  • If D/D have been prepping since S1, why so flip about the casting changes and complete lack of character development for the massive beast of Westeros? Something doesn’t add up here.

  • Turncloak:
    Hmm what if Euron has already been cast

    Spoilers from a reddit thread:
    In the show: Daario captures the Meereenese fleet during the siege of Meereen, something he wasn’t ordered to do. Ironborn strength is at sea.
    Book:
    Daario captures “93″ ships:”He had set sail from the Shields with ninety-three, of the hundred that had once made up the Iron Fleet” – From the beginning of “The Iron Suitor” Chapter in ADWD

    Don’t you mean Vic? That seems to be more than a coincidence. Hmmmm, indeed….

  • Somuchforoldtown:
    If D/D have been prepping since S1, why so flip about the casting changes and complete lack of character development for the massive beast of Westeros? Something doesn’t add up here.

    Because some situation are out of their reach. Conan Stevens decided to do other work and by the time they needed another mountain for season 2 they pulled one that was already close to the set. Obviously that mountain wouldn’t be buff enough for the fight so they got what they had with this guy whom obviously is no actor. You act like fucking 6’9 giants grow on trees.
    This shit is not math, it is common sense. But I guess blaming D&D for everything is a hot topic.

  • Daniellica,

    Well, that was an uplifting note! I always look forward to your thoughts. You are a delectable Dornish Red in a world of Mad Dog 20/20.

    zod,
    Hilarious! That brings back great childhood memories.

  • Daniellica,

    You’re welcomed :)

    The Mountain needed to be two things: incredibly big, and incredibly cruel. He didn’t need to be a good actor or even know how to say the lines. I suspect he will do just fine. Been looking forward to this for a long time, but since often what I imagine in my head after reading is not the same as what I see in the adaptation, I know it will be different. Thats ok, as long as its good!

  • OMG I LOOOVE Oberyn so MUCH! Probably the BEST character ever since season 1… Please win…..if it was any other show I would be sure he’s safe and wins no problem! but with this show…you never know….I pray to all the Gods for his victory…

  • Not to be a dick but none of the fights this series shot were impressive, some were okay, like the Hound vs Beric with that flaming sword. I mean it was adequate but nothing I had to find on YouTube.

    IMO the Jaime vs Brienne fight was lame as hell. Was very disappointed.

    So for D&D to say this will be one of the best fights in the series, IMO isn’t really a high bar.

    Why would they use the same stunt guys? Wouldn’t you want to bring in someone special to coordinate this sequence?

    Oh well, I’ll just try to be happy with what we get even though my fear is that I’ll be underwhelmed.

    Ill just hope for the best but keep my expectations low.

  • After the Only Cat fiasco last week I stoped looking forward to this fight featuring the amazing dialogue from the book. Theyll say whatever Fan Fiction David Benoiff comes up with hopefully they wont change the ending of the fight at least

  • Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Tim Tangletongue,

    I thought that was the best fight in the show, so far.

    Hear, hear! You’re a Clegane, I’m a Clegane… yes, YES?!

    I agree with you. And I believe they will do this fight justice, if even the god’s justice itself may be compromised.

  • Mariya Martell,

    They’re probably trying to be humble. They don’t want to make promises and then disappoint people… If you came out and said “this is the best fight scene in the history of television” it would be too gloaty. And stop judging it based on offhand comments- let’s just wait and see. Two agonizing weeks of wait and see.

  • jentario: And stop judging it based on offhand comments- let’s just wait and see. Two agonizing weeks of wait and see.

    Hahahahaahahahahaahahaaaaa
    What kind of fans would we be if we just wait-n-see’d? SANE ones? NEVARRRRRRRR!!

  • Arthur:
    Not to be a dick but none of the fights this series shot were impressive, some were okay, like the Hound vs Beric with that flaming sword.I mean it was adequate but nothing I had to find on YouTube.

    I thought the Hound Beric fight was one of the best, if not the best, I’ve ever seen. Gritty, epic, unusual…

    And the bar fight at the start of this season was intense as well. I’m not sure what series you’re watching.

  • cosca,

    I second this

    Arthur,

    The Inn from Two Swords comes to mind. The best fight scene so far, no doubt. The Hound and Berric are second. I agree that Jaime and Brienne’s fight was disappointing, though.

    Anyway, I guess it’s better to be a negative Nancy so you have the chance of being pleasantly surprised. The way I approach it is I expect nothing until the episode airs.

  • The Beric vs. the Hound fight was the best one-on-one fight the series has done. If Oberyn vs. the Mountain isn’t quite as good as that one, that doesn’t mean it’s bad. We really can’t tell anything about the quality of the fight, except maybe for the couple seconds of it that have been in the trailers.

    I find it so frustrating that when showrunners show confidence in the scene that they have filmed, some fans turn it into something to criticize. “If you aren’t confident it is THE best fight you’ve ever done, you’ve f–ked up.” Come on, guys, criticism is good, but this is just silly.

  • jentario:
    Mariya Martell,

    They’re probably trying to be humble. They don’t want to make promises and then disappoint people… If you came out and said “this is the best fight scene in the history of television” it would be too gloaty. And stop judging it based on offhand comments- let’s just wait and see. Two agonizing weeks of wait and see.

    DON’T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!

    I have to get my opinion out there now, because I won’t be able to form any coherent thoughts after the episode airs.

  • Mariya Martell: I agree. They had the perfect opportunity to show us the cruelty of the Mountain with the reaving of the Riverlands. At the very least, in the times we have seen the burning land, they could have said it was him.

    I don’t think he should have met Arya, or Brienne. It’s important to show that if you meet Gregor Clegane, you won’t come out alive. An almost encounter with the Hound would have been great though. The inn scene could have been used for this.

    Well, when I say meet I mean that they should have featured him in some way. The random people in Arya’s episodes should have been killed by the Mountain or his men. And Brienne should have actually met him. Like a scene where they arrive and the greg is busy killing some armed villagers. Things go sour quick and they almost go toe to toe (shoot the ecene in such a way that we really see how big the Mountain is, even when compared to Brienne) then Pod saves the day by whipping out oatkeeper. Gregor sees the Lannister swords and grudgingly let’s them past. After that have a scene where pod tells heehow lucky she was for getting a way.

    And that’s how you truly built up the Mountain as a hardcore badass.

    Dogs:
    Veltigar,

    Yeah, I was thinking something cool like, in episode 6: Brienne and Pod run into a group of Lannister soldiers headed back to King’s Landing led by the Mountain. They are torturing peasants (maybe peasants seen earlier in the season; innkeep from Episode 1? that dude and his daughter from episode 3?) to get information about the Hound’s location. Brienne and Pod are appropriately horrified but are helpless to intervene. The Mountain, accepting that Brienne and Pod are under Lannister protection, tells them that he is returning to the capital and that the Hound is out in the Riverlands with a little girl and has killed five Lannister soldiers.

    So that when they meet Hotpie at the Inn in the next episode, they could put the pieces together that the Hound has escaped from the Brotherhood, and the girl they heard about before matches the description of Arya Stark, making it actually make sense for them to decide to go to the Eyrie.

    I like this idea. Although I would add some armed warriors (why not Northern survivors of the Red Wedding orr soldiers of the BwB) to the peasants. And I would leave the little girl out, just mention the Hound and Gregor’s hate. And then what I mentioned above :)

    King Stannis: They didn’t fuck anything up. They were SMART!Obviously they picked this guy up because they needed a mountain that would look physically huge and play a specific part. Having The mountain run into Arya or Briene would mean the death of those Two so be realistic. All we need is a champion for cercie that is feared and let this mountain do the talking by action during the combat. No more, no less.

    No, see above.

    jkb: yep. i don’t think this guy can act for shit though so maybe it’s for thebetter. i believe his line last episode (‘who am i fighting’) was actually dubbed, if you look closely you can see it’s not perfectly synced (or maybe i’m seeing things).

    He doesn’t need to do much more than look pissed. Give hims ome growling lines, which can be dubbed and that’s all you need.

    Dammit Patrice:
    Veltigar,

    SHUT THE FUCK UP! I LOVE YOU!

    THANKS, I LOVE you too :p (I guess?) :p

    yPrivate Reiben: I got a bad feeling about this one.
    Captain Miller: When was the last time you felt good about anything?
    Private Reiben: when they casted Mads Mikkelsen as Euron

  • IMO Troy from 2004 had the best fight scene with similar conditions (spears and swords). The fight Achilles vs. Hector was awesome (see Youtube).

    I would be happy if the Gregor/Viper fight scene comes even remotely close to this one.

    BTW: Eric Bana would have been a great Oberyn too!

  • Tyrion Pimpslap,
    Ludo,

    Exactly. That’s why many of us were so excited to find out that Graves was directing episode eight. Of course then we’d only presumed the fight would take place here.

  • jentario,

    The Inn fight was my favorite this season, a nice treat for everybody (with fuckin awesome dialog to build up)… but for me, so far nothing tops the Beric/Hound fight. Maybe something to do with looking forward to the scene- AMPED.

    Two weeks indeed…

    SO AMPED

  • These two weeks are going to be torture. I want to see a good fight but I don’t know what
    I’ll do if Oberyn loses this. I love his character and the actor who plays him. Not to mention Tyrion being executed if he loses. For the first time ever I hate Memorial Day…lol

  • The Spider,

    Weird, because most of this called “Fan Firion” was still better than anything we got in AFFC and most of ADWD .

  • I am waiting the scene with modest expectations, given the fact that the fight choreographer obviously haven’t done any training in actual swordsmanship other than fancy stage fencing (or if he did, he tried his best to hide it), but I do hope that at least it will be spectacular…

  • Mariya Martell: Martell

    They HAD the perfect opportunity to introduce Arya to the Hound in the reaving of the Riverlands when he (actually in the books)captured Arya, Gendry, Lommy, and Hot Pie FAR from Harrenhall. The fact they moved all the torture to Harrenhall scenes with only a skinny Mountain didn’t help. We should have a visceral hatred for this guy. We should hate him MORE than Joffrey.

  • Mariya Martell: I agree. They had the perfect opportunity to show us the cruelty of the Mountain with the reaving of the Riverlands. At the very least, in the times we have seen the burning land, they could have said it was him.

    I don’t think he should have met Arya, or Brienne. It’s important to show that if you meet Gregor Clegane, you won’t come out alive. An almost encounter with the Hound would have been great though. The inn scene could have been used for this.

    Dogs:
    Veltigar,

    Yeah, I was thinking something cool like, in episode 6: Brienne and Pod run into a group of Lannister soldiers headed back to King’s Landing led by the Mountain. They are torturing peasants (maybe peasants seen earlier in the season; innkeep from Episode 1? that dude and his daughter from episode 3?) to get information about the Hound’s location. Brienne and Pod are appropriately horrified but are helpless to intervene. The Mountain, accepting that Brienne and Pod are under Lannister protection, tells them that he is returning to the capital and that the Hound is out in the Riverlands with a little girl and has killed five Lannister soldiers.

    So that when they meet Hotpie at the Inn in the next episode, they could put the pieces together that the Hound has escaped from the Brotherhood, and the girl they heard about before matches the description of Arya Stark, making it actually make sense for them to decide to go to the Eyrie.

    I could see something like that work. Although I would add some warriors into the mix (northern survivors of the RW or soldiers of the BwB). See Gregor tear them apart, than Brienne tries to stop him and then it looks like greg will make minced meat of her (film it in a way that emphasises how puny even Brienne is compared with this human tank).

    But then Pod intervenes by showing oatkeeper. Seeing the Lannister sword, the Mountain backs off. after that a scene where Pod tells her who lucky she was to survive the Mountain and you have built up.

    King Stannis: They didn’t fuck anything up. They were SMART!Obviously they picked this guy up because they needed a mountain that would look physically huge and play a specific part. Having The mountain run into Arya or Briene would mean the death of those Two so be realistic. All we need is a champion for cercie that is feared and let this mountain do the talking by action during the combat. No more, no less.

    No, see above.

    Dammit Patrice:
    Veltigar,

    SHUT THE FUCK UP! I LOVE YOU!

    THANKS, RIGHT BACK AT YA (I guess?) :p

  • Both of these Fookin c’nts are lucky I’m dead north of the wall. I could take them both. Fookin cowards in armor, Fookin highborn c’nts!!!!

  • I don’t know if anyone has already brought this up, but Lena Headey apparantly revealed on instagram that Lady Stoneheart will make an appearance.
    She posted a photo on her instagram of stones put together in the shape of a heart, with the quote my stone heart.
    This seems to confirm that LS will indeed make an appearance and probably at the end of this season.

  • Saar,

    Yeah that pic is like one month old, funny how only now some of those ‘fansites’ dug it up. Lena hinted at LS last year too, she is so funny – she didn’t read the books but she just fangirls over stuff that’s gonna happen :)

  • To me, the best combat scene they’ve done so far was in 4.01 between the Hound & the Lannister men in the inn, with Arya joining in. The other top ones are the two trials by combat.

    Many combat scenes in this show have felt very generic and not in keeping with Martin’s realism. I actually never understood the praise for Blackwater. It looked so-so. Except for the one massive cgi scene, it was pretty generic.

    Having said that, I expect the Viper vs the Mountain to be epic. Because they can take all their inspiration from the book and don’t need to short-change the audience due to budget (like in Blackwater), since it is just 2 fighters.

  • Saar:
    I don’t know if anyone has already brought this up, but Lena Headey apparantly revealed on instagram that Lady Stoneheart will make an appearance.
    She posted a photo on her instagram of stones put together in the shape of a heart, with the quote my stone heart.
    This seems to confirm that LS will indeed make an appearance and probably at the end of this season.

    That does not confirm anything neither it is revealing anything so stop jumping the gun and stop posting spoilers. If anything is revealed in the show is because it is on the book not because some damn picture. Come at me when it comes from the horses mouth that is revealed.

  • PodricksThirdLeg: That does not confirm anything neither it is revealing anything so stop jumping the gun and stop posting spoilers. If anything is revealed in the show is because it is on the book not because some damn picture. Come at me when it comes from the horses mouth that is revealed.

    chill dude, I wanna bet with you that she will appear this episode, because they’ve hinted at it too much and it would be to epic not to have her on the show

  • GeekFurious:
    To me, the best combat scene they’ve done so far was in 4.01 between the Hound & the Lannister men in the inn, with Arya joining in. The other top ones are the two trials by combat.

    Many combat scenes in this show have felt very generic and not in keeping with Martin’s realism. I actually never understood the praise for Blackwater. It looked so-so. Except for the one massive cgi scene, it was pretty generic.

    Having said that, I expect the Viper vs the Mountain to be epic. Because they can take all their inspiration from the book and don’t need to short-change the audience due to budget (like in Blackwater), since it is just 2 fighters.

    I thought Blackwater was good but I guess you can’t satisfied some people that complain about everything as if they can make any better just because they “read it in a book”
    I’m calling it right now, you will say that the Viper Vs The Mountain fight was okay after it airs just because it will played differently on your head.

  • Saar: chill dude, I wanna bet with you that she will appear this episode, because they’ve hinted at it too much and it would be to epic not to have her on the show

    I wanna bet with you that she will appear towards the end because I trust the showrunners

  • GeekFurious,

    What made “Blackwater” great was the non-combat scenes. I agree with you that the combat choreography was just so-so, although the scale & cinematography were impressive for TV.

    I would still put The Hound vs. Lord Beric as the best individual fight scene in the show (and one of the better swordfights I’ve seen in ANY movie or TV show). It’s a scene I don’t particularly care for in the book (the outcome was too obvious), but in the show they made great use of the space and the fires. The choreography was mostly well-done and realistic, minus a few flourishes. And there was a minimum of Flynning – both actors (& stunt doubles) were swinging their weapons _hard_, at each other. Also it’s the only fight scene so far to feature the use of shields, which I appreciated.

    Agreed though that the fight scene in “Two Swords” was great as well. NCW and Harrington get more props for their swordsmanship, but among the actors Rory McCann is the MVP of GoT’s action scenes.

  • Myk:

    The “Only Cat” fiasco?Really?Really??As if it makes a damn bit of difference.What a nitpicking clown.

    Book reader rage is so adorable. It’s so funny how upset the bookbeards get over the tiniest little things.

  • King Stannis: I thought Blackwater was good but I guess you can’t satisfied some people that complain about everything as if they can make any better just because they “read it in a book”
    I’m calling it right now, you will say that the Viper Vs The Mountain fight was okay after it airs just because it will played differently on your head.

    You are a child.

  • Ludo, Yep, they were good but the direction was awful. Changing plans every seconds making the scene muddle, dangerous for people with epilepsy…

  • GeekFurious,

    Many combat scenes in this show have felt very generic and not in keeping with Martin’s realism.

    This is so confusing, albeit hilarious. Martin’s realism? The fact that the fights are generic in the show make them more realistic. Medieval single combat wasn’t something out of Spartacus…it was literally hacking at an armored person until you got him on the ground or found an uncovered joint to stick your blade in. So excuse me if I find the show’s combat more realistic than Robert Baratheon running into battle with a war hammer that was completely impractical and all but non-existent in history.

  • GeekFurious: You are a child.

    Last i checked a child complains and whines. Let’s see which of us matches that description when the show does not go by the book.

  • lol,

    I wouldn’t consider _that_ as ‘using a shield’. He acted as if it were the first time he ever held a shile in his hand. He should have shoved Bronn right out the Moon Door being at least 20-30 kgs heavier than him. Not to mention the wide, absolutely uncontrolled swings he made with his sword, tha absolute lack of footwork, etc. Overall he seemed it was the first time ever fighting with a sword and a shiled in armor. (Bronn himself was not so much better, either, might I note…) The whole fighting was by far the worst and most ridiculous onne that was ever staged in the series…

  • YeOldGods,

    Um warhammers is a thing right?
    Today Robert would be a heavyweight strongman, back then people made up all types of impractical shit, like armor, or halberds. This is early medieval, when people was out for the most brutal. Warhammers are definitely more brutal than longswords, which are clumsy. And we have yet to see details about this battle yet.

  • Tatters,

    No offense, but you obviously haven’t had a proper sword (let alone a warhammer) in your hand, have you?

    YeOldGods is absolutely right in the sense that warhammers, such as described for king Robert were NEVER EVER in practice in the Middle-Ages. The warhammer is a late medieval weapon which is a response to the invention and spread of high quality plate armor, that was virtually impervious to longsword blows. The warhammer was therefore an armor-piercing weapon, resembling an ice-axe, ending in a sharp and robust point, not with a huge and blunt (and heavy) head a sledgehammer. A weapon such as that, weighing like 10-15 kgs, would have been absolutely useless as no matter how strong you are, you would have been hilariously slow with it and would be dead in like 20 seconds in a real fight.
    And regarding swords being “clumsy”, you are absolutely wrong. No medieval longswords were heavier than 2.5-3 kgs (but usualy around 2 kg tops) and they were superbly balanced, and could be used remarkably fast. Check out youtube for videos of any Historical European Martial Arts practitioner.
    Medieval people were not half as stupid as we now like to think they were…

  • Felagund,

    Well, european swords were definitely not the best swords around, just ask the japanese. And we dont know what metal or methods are used here, we know that Donal Noye made this hammer, a guy who kills giants one handedly. This doesnt just seem like some normal weapon, it reminds me about giant tsar canon. The kind of iconic weapon that you would use for your own pleasure. I doubt Robert used to fight on the battfield, maybe specifically for Rhaegar.
    No matter, Robert could kill anyone with any weapon. The guy is a beast.

  • Felagund,

    I went to Youtube and looked at some of the HEMA videos…the fighting style is very different than what you see on shows and much more realistic. There are two differences in the HEMA fights and what would have actually happened in Medieval times. First, match fighting lends itself to action in short bursts interspersed with breaks. So the presence of the Ref and the stopping of action for safety causes that. The second thing is that they aren’t wearing armor. Armor not only hampers fluidity (unless it is extremely well made) but it also tires out the fighter that much faster. Not to disparage what the HEMA fighters are doing (I think it is very cool) but to envision what real sword fights would look like take the HEMA fighting and take out those those two differences.

    Another point about the short bursts of action…even with a ref…real fights are short. Why? Because it’s exhausting even if you are in really good shape. The average street fight lasts less than 30 seconds. The average fight between cops and suspects is the same. If you’ve ever been in a fist fight or have martial arts training, you know exactly what I’m saying. Now add heavy armor and swords? And you’ve got VERY short fight sequences. Not all that fun for TV and movies. So pretty much nothing we see on TV and movies is all that realistic. I mean martial arts movies are ridiculous nowadays. Real fighting is short and messy under the best of circumstances.

  • Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ,

    I know, why tell me this? :D
    Most of the videos are of unarmored combat (bloßfechten), but you can also find armored fights (harnischfechten), they look nothing like the ones in the series. Lets just start with the fact that in armored combat, the opponents were more like wrestling than trading blows, as a longsword cut is virtually ineffective against plate armor, therefore the standard grip was the so-called half-sword technique (halbschwert – grabbing the hilt with one hand and the middle of the blade with the other one to provide stability for thrusts), which is never _ever_ seen in this series. Truth be told, I haven’t seen it in _any_ movie that dealed with armored fighting, though I admit it is a lot less spectacular, than fancy sword-swinging :)

    It is perfectly okay to stage dramatic and spectacular fights in a TV-series that emphasizes on visuality (obviously), but in GoT they are so far away from realism (which, in general, is a well-known trademark of GoT) that it is shocking (for me at least, who is, however slightly, versed in traditional swordsmanship). Let’s just take the half naked Ramsay defeating the fully armed and armoured “best killers of the Iron Islands” with two daggers without receiving even the tiniest of scratches. I mean, COME ON, what are we talking about???

    Tatters,

    If you are referring to the katana, the miracle of the Japanese swordsmiths was not that they could make an ultimately superior blade (much of the legend of the Japanese sword is entirely fictional) but that they could actually make a quite decent sword out of that shitty iron they had. Iron sources found in Japan are very bad in quality, so they really had to counter it somehow with superior ingenuity.
    However sharp and sturdy it was, in comparison with the longsword, the Japanese sword is quite short for its weight (they weigh generally the same (1,2-1,5 kg) but the longsword blade is 30 cm longer on average), and the longsword is also double edged and better suited for thrusting, compared to the single-edged Japanese sword with a rather blunt point.

    As for being a fantasy where these “faults” are permitted (or, at least, overlooked) is a way better argument than your previous one, although we have no reason to believe that either the people or the basic resources available were any different than in our real world and therefore we should suppose that (with the obvious exception of the magical valyrian steel) iron and steel weapons generally were in the same weight-category as their real-world counterparts. :)

  • Tatters,

    Felagund,

    Chiefs, read the text about Robert’s warhammer. “Ned could barely heft it”, and that’s a guy who wielded Ice, an enormous broadsword. Warhammers were not big in medieval europe, they resembled more of a pick ax, and they were used for piercing through armor to get to flesh. The video game like warhammer Robert used was a piece of pure fantasy writing, much like the sword made out of fallen meteor(ite?). Oh wait, Robert was like 6’8 and 300 pounds. TOTAL REALISM that mirrors medieval europe. GRRM’s writing is amazing, and it’s heavily realistic in different ways, but not combat.

    SO please ask yourselves what I’m on about after you do more than cursory wikipedia search to check that a warhammer merely existed. Lol, “GRRM’s Realism”.

  • PodricksThirdLeg: I wanna bet with you that she will appear towards the end because I trust the showrunners

    thats exactly what I meant haha, don’t know how I typed episode, I think I was in a rush or something

  • I have told myself that I am not getting hyped for this fight, but I am getting hyped for this scene. As good as this production is, its still television and it simply won’t be as cinematic as we visualized in our heads. If it’s on par with Beric vs The Hound, I will be satisfied. If it’s better than the aforementioned season 3 duel than bravo. But I will be placing my focus on the drama of the scene as a whole.

    Thus I am hyped with realistic expectations.

    Also the previously.tv UnSullied do not care for the third casting of the Mountain (Among other things…ugh). As awesome as Lena looked walking over that entrails in Gregor 3.0’s intro scene, i think it was a mistake to have Gregor bare chested. I get they want to emphasize his brute strength in that regard but It would have been wise to have him in full plate as a way to pursue the continuity established with Gregor 1.0 (Conan Stevens).

  • Enfield,

    This.

    Seriously, this site has turned into a bunch of over-privileged spoiled babies.

    The scene is going to be great. Everyone needs to stop acting like they’ve ruined the series since day one.

  • YeOldGods,

    Its as realistic as fantastic fighting get, unlike how they seem make Oberyn a ninja master in the show. That is unlucky, and distracting.