Interview: Joe Abercrombie talks The Devils, grimdark fantasy humor, Best Served Cold and more

Sometimes holy work requires unholy deeds, a fact which the cast of misfits at the heart of Joe Abercrombie's new book The Devils knows all too well. Abercrombie is the author of The First Law fantasy series, which hit a new high in 2021 with the climax of The Age of Madness sequel trilogy. The First Law has been running for quite a while at this point, with nine full-length novels and a short fiction collection rounding out the gritty grimdark fantasy world of Abercrombie's imagination. But for his next book, the lord of grimdark fantasy is doing something a bit different.

The Devils marks the beginning of a whole new series set outside The First Law universe, and if you enjoyed any of his previous works, you'll most certainly want to check this one out. (It also makes for a great entry-point into Abercrombie's works.) It's set in an alternate history Europe where a young female pope enlists a ragtag group of monsters to go on a daring mission to stabilize the rulership of a neighboring nation, while the ever-present threat of man-eating elves looms large in the minds of the people. It's the sort of task the church needs done by unsavory hands — and which comes with a high chance of agonizing, untimely death. Just the sort of work monsters are cut out for.

The Devils releases today in the UK and on May 13 in the U.S. To mark the occasion, we caught up with Abercrombie to discuss this new series, how he shaped its alternate-history world, the distinct voices of the different Devils, and more. And we couldn't help sneaking in a few questions about some of his other projects, like director Tim Miller's upcoming film adaptation of the First Law book Best Served Cold. Read on for our spoiler-free interview with Joe Abercrombie!

DANIEL ROMAN for Winter Is Coming: The Devils is a very different book from The First Law. How would you pitch it to a First Law reader who maybe hasn’t read your work outside of that series?

JOE ABERCROMBIE: I suppose I’d say that the apple hasn’t fallen too far from the tree. Though it’s set in an alternate Europe rather than an entirely invented world it’s still quite cynical, quite dark fantasy with some vivid characters, a lot of crunching action and a thick vein of gallows humour. But it’s also more self contained, more focused, perhaps a bit faster paced, a bit less cynical and a bit more comedic in tone.

WiC: Where did the idea for this new series come from?

JA: It’s often tough to pin down where an idea first appeared. Maybe fifteen years ago I was approached about maybe writing a young adult series, and one idea I had was about a set of monsters employed by the pope. In the end it felt like more of an adult concept, really, and I settled on the idea that became the Shattered Sea books instead, but the idea of the Pope’s monsters hung around, and when I finished the Age of Madness and was thinking about what to do next, it was the thing that floated to the surface of the fetid pool that is my mind.

WiC: The Devils takes place in an alternate Europe. How did you go about designing the history for that? Were there any historical touchstones or diverging points that were key to that process?

JA: It involved years of meticulous research, design, planning and careful consideration. I kid. The idea for this book was for the setting to feel like a weird fever dream, close enough to medieval Europe to seem vaguely familiar, and for references and jokes to land, but blurred and unspecific enough that the characters would stand out more strongly. So I reversed a few key historical moments – Carthage beat Rome in the Punic wars, Troy beat Greece in the Trojan wars, there was a female messiah and hence a female priesthood, Atlantis never sank and, oh, the world is threatened with invasion by elves whose holy mission is to eat all mankind. It’s Europe, but it’s also much higher fantasy than my secondary world stuff. Monsters and magic under every rock.

WiC: There’s a pretty fun cast for this book, but the thing that struck me the most about them is how each of the devils has a very distinctive voice that really comes through in their specific chapters. (Vigga in particular got me.) Were there any specific influences or quirks of the voicing you especially wanted to make sure you got across for any of these characters?

JA: That’s good to hear, because I guess if there’s one thing I aim for it’s to get the reader into the heads of the characters, and to give each point of view as strong and distinct a voice as possible. That’s the thing I really respond to as a reader so it’s what I try to do as a writer. So with each character I’m trying to develop a prose style, and a word choice, and a manner of expression that reflects their personality, and is distinct from and complimentary to the others. A lot of that is about trial and error – the character informs the style but as the style develops it influences your feelings about the character and their role in the story. Hopefully by the time I finish a first draft I’ve got a good idea of who each character is and how to write from their point of view.

WiC: Along those lines, which character or element of the book was the most challenging to get right and why?

JA: I generally find the more intense voices easier. The two relatively normal members of the cast – Alex and Brother Diaz – have to carry more of the story, more of the decisions, more of the actual character arcs. They have to develop and drive the plot in a way that some of the weirder characters don’t so much, so they were the most difficult to write, developed most along the way and needed the most revision after the fact, I’d say.

WiC: Your books always have an amazing humorous streak, but that feels especially important for The Devils. What was the most fun part of this book for you to write? (Speaking cryptically for spoilers, of course.)

JA: One thing I’ve always enjoyed, and has come reasonably naturally to me as a writer, is the interplay between a small group, often on the road. So I think the most fun was just the fireside conversations between this mismatched group of odd and intense characters, and the strange and surprising directions their relationships take.

WiC: If you could spend time with any one member of the Chapel of the Holy Expediency in real life, who would it be?

JA: Wow that’s a tough call. I suppose Sunny’s probably the one least likely to get you killed.

WiC: I saw on your blog that you’re already deep into work on the sequel to The Devils, with a planned third book to come after that. How’s work going on book 2? And is there any tease you can give for what readers should expect in the future of the series?

JA: Book 2 is going … reasonably well, I’d say. I never feel any better than that until I’ve got a draft completed and I feel like I know what to do with it. Then the true work begins. But I’m maybe 80% of the way through a first draft, so it’s coming together. A few wrinkles still to iron out and plenty of work to do in the revision, as always. The cast changes some with each book, so there’s a new priest taking charge, of a much more dangerous and driven variety, and a very different plot involving an Inquisition, a mysterious inheritance, a set of ancient tombs, and some witches.

WiC: I have to sneak in one no-pressure question about the Best Served Cold movie, because I told myself that if I ever got the chance to interview you, I’d ask it. I remember reading a while back that you and Tim Miller had been trying to get The First Law on screen for a quite a while. How did you arrive at Best Served Cold as the entry point, over say, The Blade Itself?

JA: Tim and I have been working on getting some element of The First Law to the screen for over a decade now, and have worked on a few other projects together besides. We had The First Law set up as a TV show for a few years but it didn’t quite get there, which is why we decided to develop a film instead. Best Served Cold seemed like the best shot at getting a self-contained, single film out of the series that in success we could expand into the other books.

WiC: If you were embarking on a perilous mission with near certain chances of failure, and had to put together a team of misfits, monsters, and characters from other creators’ fictional stories to help you see it through, who would you choose?

JA: Oooh, nice question. I’ll take Jack Vance’s Cugel the Clever, Tamsyn Muir’s Gideon Nav, George R.R. Martin’s Tyrion Lannister, Frans Bengtsson’s Red Orm, but let’s face it I’m going for entertainment value over competence here. Maybe I should throw in Smaug and a couple of Nazgûl to get the heavy lifting done.

WiC: Joe, thank you so much for taking the time to talk about The Devils! Here’s wishing you and the congregation of the Chapel of the Holy Expediency a great book launch.

JA: I doubt they’ll thank you, but I certainly appreciate it…

A huge thank you to Joe Abercrombie for stopping by the site to tell us all about The Devils!

The Devils is out today in the UK and is slated to release in the U.S. on May 13. You can buy or preorder your copy today through Abercrombie's website.

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