Unsullied Recap, Game of Thrones Episode 403 – Breaker of Chains
By Oz of Thrones on in Recap.

Joff in Sept

Spoiler note: The discussion in this post is primarily for non-book readers (book fans can discuss the show here). We ask that all Sullied book-readers refrain from posting spoilers in the comments here, veiled or otherwise. This show is best viewed without knowing all the surprises beforehand or afterwards, so please be respectful of your fellow fans. Thank you!

Oz of Thrones:  Welcome one and all to the Unsullied, non-book reader recap for the first post-Joffrey era episode.

King Crossbow is gone, but his legacy lives on even as his parents have a less-than-consensual copulation on the floor beside their dead son.  For those of you scoring at home, the normal factor of that scene was zero.

But let’s take it all in and discuss.  This episode was busy…

When Lysa is mentioned in the first “previously on” scene, that is a damn good start.  Much to my dismay, it was a sampling of a dish that wasn’t even available on the menu.  More on my Lady Arryn depression later…

Aftermath

We pick up where we left off, literally.  Cersei and Tywin immediately look for Sansa who is running with soon-to-be-deceased Dontos through the alleys of KL.  Dontos rows her out to a ship where she is met on deck by… Littlefinger? Dammit man!  You’re supposed to be at the freaking Vale.  What the hell have you been doing all this time?  How are we supposed to see Lysa if…

I digress.  It was good to see finally see Baelish for the first time this season.  Littlefinger apparently had a finger in the demise of Joff and plans to take Sansa to her Aunt’s penthouse condo.  But what does Baelish stand to gain from saving Sansa?  How much of a role did he have in the murder of Joff?  And does he even plan to take her to the Vale?  What does “sailing home” mean?

A man needs more time to ponder.  Once Littlefinger is involved, everything gets a bit more complex.    Originally I had not even considered LF a factor in the plot, but he’s been busy making necklaces while he should have been kicking it with Lysa and Robin by now and discussing breastfeeding alternatives.  We should have known.

This whole show is a Lysa tease.

Olenna reinforces to Margaery how much her situation has improved and touches on whether or not she has a claim to being the Queen (and it not being a good time to press the issue).  Olenna also remarks that the Lannisters still need the Tyrells and that the next one (husband) should be easier.  The next scene goes straight to Tommen (and Cersei, and the remains of Joff).

Tywin quizzes Tommen on what qualities a good King should possess, the most important being wisdom and heeding the advice of council.  Tywin wastes no time getting the heir prepped for his role and still shows no hint of sorrow over the loss of his grandson.  While it is somewhat peculiar that Tywin shows no sentiment towards the loss, he also doesn’t strike me as a man who would break down and cry about anything.  Still a suspect?  You decide.

Two things seem certain to me from this scene: 1.  Tommen seems like a good, smart kid (too good to be around for long in this series). And 2. Charles Dance is an excellent actor.

And then, things just get freakin weird.

As certain as Cersei is that Tyrion killed her son, I am just as certain that Cersei did not.  For the record, I never bought the fact that she was the primary suspect.  I was only passing along other Unsullied sentiment and stating the facts that may have given her motive.

Cersei asks Jaime to kill Tyrion just before things got real uncomfortable in the Sept.  I don’t see any need in recapping what happened next other than to say that I assume “stop” means stop even if you are brother and sister, although I have no experienced acquaintances to advise me on the validity of this belief.  Feel free to discuss below… I’m gonna sit this one out (for now).

While you guys are doing that, I’ll recap the consensual, bi-sexual, five-way that Oberyn was busy with until Paw Paw shows up.  Tywin double cock-blocks and interrupts the party to discuss Oberyn’s expertise with poison and to make a deal with him that would benefit them both. Among other things, it involves giving the Mountain and a council seat to Oberyn and bringing Dorne back into the fold of the seven kingdoms.

We never see Oberyn shake the hand of Tywin and agree to the deal, but we know from the previews that Oberyn does eventually get his meeting with the Mountain.  The deal makes sense considering the dangers that the realm faces and it also makes Oberyn one of the judges in Tyrion’s trial.  Oberyn strikes me as someone who calls it like he sees it and could be Tyrion’s only chance of not being executed.

Speaking of, Tyrion has to say goodbye to Pod in a scene where I thought Daniel Portman did his best acting so far.  If Pod is gone, he will be missed (especially by the brothel employees).  But my guess is that he won’t.

The Stark and The Hound meet up with a father and daughter that take them in after Arya explains the story of why her “father” is not the same since the war.  The Hound teaches Arya another lesson based more on survival and less on morals when he makes the father think he will accept a job but steals his money instead.  While it is painful to watch how cruel the Hound is in this scene, it also seems to be a necessary evil in navigating the horrible world in which they live.

Meanwhile, Sam becomes concerned about the safety and welfare of Gilly and baby Sam and takes her to Mole’s Town, which somewhat seemed like a good excuse for the show to get her out of there before the Wildlings come knocking.

The Wildlings: The slaughter at the farm and the little boy sent to the Wall just pissed me off.

We later find out that Castle Black only has 100 men, which is considerably less than I expected.  What’s worse is that the mutineers at Crasters have taken up residence and will likely tell Mance of the Crow’s low numbers.  Much to the delight of many readers here, Burn Gorman is shown in the preview and at least one more trip to the Keep seems to be inevitable.

The whole deal at the Wall looks like it will be a Crow massacre and makes me hope that maybe Jon Snow runs in to Bran beyond the wall and stays with him.

Stannis and Davos:  Stannis receives word of the demise of Joff and once again references the leeches.  However, Stannis is increasingly agitated with Davos for not coming up with a plan or an army.  While reading a book to Shireen, Davos has an epiphany when talking about the Bank of Braavos.

Discussion regarding the debt of the realm goes all the way back to Season 1 and the Bank was brought up a few times in Season 3.  As new master of coin, Tyrion and Littlefinger briefly discuss it, as do Tyrion and Bronn.  From what I remember, the Iron Bank has been known to side with enemies of the realm if debts are not paid.  Tywin and Olenna also discussed it during their stroll to the reception last week when Tywin stated that the Iron Bank did not concern him.  Perhaps it should.

I have always been curious to know if/when the debt issue was going to become a bigger part of the story.  I totally expected it to be an issue at some point, but not necessarily with Stannis.  However, it all makes perfect sense if my thinking is not horribly flawed.

And finally:  Was that the champion relieving himself or his horse?

Dany and Co. make it to the walls of Meereen where they are met with a well-endowed man who won’t shut up.  We the viewers were honored with witnessing his last urination before being destroyed by the new Daario.  Overall, I liked the scene and the use of the broken slave collars to make a point.  I still have mixed feelings on the new Daario, which is unfortunate.  His obliteration of the Meereen champion was cool.  I just feel like it could have been better.

Episode 403 Personal Awards

Favorite Scene:  Difficult to pick just one as there were so many of importance.  The one that keeps coming back to me is when the idea of the Iron Bank hits Davos.  I thought Liam Cunningham pulled it off beautifully.   
Favorite Quote #1:  “Money buys a man’s silence for a time.  A bolt in the heart buys it forever.” -Littlefinger
Favorite Quote #2:  “Just point out the next map shop you see and I’ll buy you one.” –The Hound
Favorite Quote #3:  “They don’t have enough men between them to raid a pantry.” -Stannis
Favorite Quote #4:  “I don’t think I can kill 100 Wildlings.” –Pyp

Recurring (but different) “City of Essos” Quote Degrading Women:  “He claims you are no woman at all but a man who hides his cock in his own asshole.” –Missandei translating the banter of the Pissing Champion

Jackass Award:  Congratulations to Ygritte for shooting an unexpecting loving father with one of your arrows.  This is your first award and first nomination in this category.  And you definitely earned it.

Final Thoughts:  The episode was full of information and relevance in setting up what may be to come the rest of the Season.  I think there will probably be some who are upset with the amount of action or the lack of thereof that 403 brought.  But this episode featured some of the best acting in my opinion (Lena, Liam, Charles) and was likely critical in helping Unsullied understand events that have yet to unfold.

That’s it for me today Ladies and Sers!  What were your favorite quotes?  Scenes? Speak up!

Likes? Dislikes? Grumblings?  BUT NO SPOILERS HERE!  NO HINTS! NO BOOK RELATED DISCUSSION! 

In regards to my dear Lysa, I am contemplating my next move.  There will be blood.        

By the way, I am relatively new to twitter so if the impulse strikes you, I can be followed @ozofthrones.

A man will be back next weekend for Looking Forward Episode 404.  Until then, have a great week, drink one for drunk, dead Dontos, and may there always be peace in your realm. –Oz

“Unbowed.  Unbent.  Unsullied.”

PLEASE BE MINDFUL OF THE UNSULLIED… Do not post spoilers in this comment thread!


112 Comments

  1. wizardeyes
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    Gods bless Liam Cunningham! He’s such a cool dude.
    Fun fact – he’s best friends with Michael Fassbender

    http://static.diary.ru/userdir/2/2/4/3/2243671/71746250.jpg

  2. BeautyBrienne
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    Big ol’ boohiss on Ygritte and the Wildlings this week.

  3. Lord Of Lite
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    Glad to have you weigh in Oz. I was first of the mind that being they were both in an incestuous relationship it was a whole cloth freak show. But, your right no is no. However, is there not room for refusal and then surrender to quite the Boss in Jungleland? It did seem that Cersei was giving Jaime some tongue before the act. What makes it hard to evaluate cleanly is the dead body within reach of the two of them.

  4. Just a Random
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    Jaime Lannister. A hole.

  5. The Dragon Demands
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    “We later find out that Castle Black only has 100 men, which is considerably less than I expected. ”

    They said in Season 1 that the *entire* Night’s Watch numbers under 1,000 men. Jeor Mormont’s expedition north of the Wall consisted of 300 men…and as we see, ONLY FOUR MEN made it back from that expedition alive.

    So now they have under 700 men left…divided between the three remaining castles on the Wall (the other two being the Shadow Tower and Eastwatch-by-the-Sea). So maybe they took the bulk of their men on the expedition from Castle Black’s garrison.

    What’s worse is that the expedition took basically all of their senior leadership and best warriors.

    The only officers really left are Ser Alliser, the head Builder, the head Steward, and Maester Aemon (odd: the guy who played Bowen Marsh, head Steward, in Season 1 has been recast as Othell Yarwyck, the head Builder, in Season 4).

  6. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    Lord Of Lite,

    Cersei did give the tongue, but it seemed more of an attempt to persuade Jaime to do her bidding and kill Tyrion. Jaime was not taking no for an answer. She kept saying “it’s not right”… did that refer to having sex with your brother or having sex in the room with your deceased son? Or both? Or something else?

    The whole thing was, disturbing. I kept thinking Joff was going to fall on top of them.

  7. The Dragon Demands
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    “Tywin and Olenna also discussed it during their stroll to the reception last week when Tywin stated that the Iron Bank did not concern him. Perhaps it should.”

    Remember the end of that conversation: After Tywin said he wasn’t afraid of the Iron Bank of Braavos, Olenna chided him that they both knew he was lying, because only a fool would not fear the Iron Bank, and they both know Tywin is smart enough to know that this is a serious problem (a combination of King Robert’s already massive debts from Season 1, plus as Olenna pointed out, even more money the Lannisters lost on the cost of the war).

    “However, it all makes perfect sense if my thinking is not horribly flawed.”

    Actually you’ve followed it very well, even remembering the Season 1 references.

  8. Laura Ponce De León
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    Beware, Twitter is dark and full of spoilers!! BEWARE!!!

  9. Team
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    Ygritte pissed me off just like you said. Congratulations to the jackass award. Unbelievably. I hope she dies and that boy kills her.

  10. Chris
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 11:57 am | Permalink
  11. Bored
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    Team,

    This. I hope she dies soon. I hate the wildlings. Hope the Night’s Watch kills them.

  12. Kay
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    Favorite scene was Tyrion and Pod. I really hope Pod escapes the city and is safe somewhere. He’s done what he can.
    Cersei and Jaime are really twins, aren’t they? In all their glorious a**holeness. This time it was Jaime’s turn. How did they produce a sweet kid like Tommen?
    I wish the Arya-Hound story would hurry up a little. The fractures in their “travel companionship” are showing already.
    Prince Oberyn and his paramour have a lot of stamina – they seem to live at the brothels.
    As usual, Daenerys’ speech in a made-up language was goosepimple-inducing.

  13. TSM
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    What would you expect of a man who didn’t have sex for, how long was it, two years? And then even after returning Cersei didn’t want to sleep with him. He couldn’t resist, especially after the kissing action. Yes, it was bad, but not as bad as killing his cousing and throwing Bran from the tower. And I also can never feel bad for Cersei.

    Also, favourite part of the episode, Meereen.

  14. Nagga's Kin
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    So, Robert decided to marry off Joffrey to Sansa, a betrothal Tywin later canceled to facilitate a post-Blackwater alliance with the Tyrells. Meanwhile, Tyrion sent Myrcella off to Dorne to keep the Martells neutral. Now, before Joffrey has even been buried, Tywin is already assuming control of Tommen’s regency, including discussions of who his queen will be. The only reason the Lannisters are ruling the roost at all is that Cersei produced three children, officially with Robert, yet she’s had no say in who any of them were / are being betrothed to. Throw in the fact that Tywin has horse-traded Cersei’s own hand in marriage several times now. Cersei is a woman with political ambitions and, time and again, those have been thwarted by the men in her life. Her agency has been reduced to who the wedding leftovers will be fed to.

    Now, to add insult to injury, Jaime refuses to take no for answer and rapes his sister in the sept right next to Joffrey’s body. The bodice-ripping was a clever take-down of all those tawdry romance novels. However, it’s a minor miracle we didn’t see the eye-stones fall off the corpse while Jaime was ravishing the grieving mother of his eldest son.

    So, just when we were led to believe that he was mending his brutal ways, boom, he’s worse than ever. It’s conceivable that Cersei used to like it when he dominated her roughly, especially in a setting in which they might be discovered. Our only point of reference is the scene in the abandoned tower in Winterfell, where Bran paid for his curiosity. Back then, the sex appeared to be kinky but consensual.

    In this case, however, it seems a sexually frustrated Jaime either misinterpreted her repeated protests as some sort of perverse encouragement or else, he’s grown to hate her and really no longer cares about her feelings. In the former scenario, she’ll surely force him to make amends, e.g. in the form of a murder or two on her behalf. She already asked him to kill Tyrion before the rape. She had earlier demanded that Sansa be found and arrested as well.

    These twins clearly have a relationship that’s sick and twisted way beyond their incest as such.

  15. NomadicDirewolf
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    btw guys, alex graves (director of this episode) stated in an interview that he thought it was ‘consensual by the end’ (even though tbh it didnt look that way)

  16. DoubleD
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    Firstly, it seems scant details were learned in figuring out who was behind Joffrey’s death other than to say I am now a little more inclined to rule out Cersei and I feel pretty confident that Littlefinger had a hand in it or at least possessed serious levels of inside knowledge about it. Secondly, after coming across multiple hints from various sources that the first two episodes of season 4 would give us all the clues we need in figuring out who conspired to off Joff, I am having a really hard time believing that. There’s definitely no definitive proof, only motive and moments of opportunity for a handful of characters. More significantly, the injection of LF into the plot was never hinted at in the first two episodes (as far as I can tell) and that’s the main reason why I am not buying into the notion that the 1st 2 episodes somehow reveal the killer to the presumably observant viewer.

  17. Nope
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    TSM,

    Which is why isn’t legal for men in prison to tape their wife’s when they get home. Oh wait……

    This is why I hate rape scenes, because comments like this scare the crap out of me. What if you are on a jury for a rape trial? It’s scary. And why do man real people don’t come forward.

  18. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    TSM:
    What would you expect of a man who didn’t have sex for, how long was it, two years? And then even after returning Cersei didn’t want to sleep with him. He couldn’t resist, especially after the kissing action. Yes, it was bad, but not as bad as killing his cousing and throwing Bran from the tower. And I also can never feel bad for Cersei.

    Also, favourite part of the episode, Meereen.

    If you think “I haven’t gotten laid in a while” is a justification for rape, you’re inevitably going to have a pretty tough time in a court of law.

  19. 3eyes
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    Lets give Ygritte a little slack. Betrayed by the one man to whom she opened her heart (and a crow at that!), she still couldn’t bring herself to kill him, and thus betrayed herself and the Wildling cause. Now she’s under pressure to prove herself loyal, while still processing her anger at herself and at Jon. Every kill must be her way of making up for her moment of weakness.
    Completely gobsmacked by LF’s appearance, but it does make sense. If he brings Sansa to the Vale, he might have more leverage with Lyssa. Respect to him for being clever enough to poison King Crossbow – imagine what it would take to get past all the safeguards without being detected – and getting Sansa away so quickly. Did Oberyn have a meeting with him before showing up in KL?
    Am VERY worried for Gilly in Mole’s Town, but I may be underestimating her.
    That rape scene in the Sept was suitably cringeworthy. What if Brienne finds out?
    Excellent work by Alex Graves on episodes 2&3.
    Oh Great and Powerful One, be patient. No doubt you will have your fill of Lyssa before long.

  20. jayceedee
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Am I allowed to do a small happy dance? Last week on speculation I said to never rule out Littlefinger or Varys in the death of Joff. They are both capable of terrible things and know more about KL and the Red Keep than any others. I still don’t know who did it, but my money is now more than ever banking closer to Littlefinger for having at least ONE of his little fingers in the murder pie so to speak. And I am not ruling out Varys either.

    I was surprised to see that he was on the boat that Dontos took Sansa to. Weren’t you? Didn’t see that coming.

    Jamie/Cersie kinky boots. What to say. Yes, it did appear that Cersie was saying no to Jamie. Maybe I have just been so turned against Cersie that it didn’t bother me that Jamie took her. Sort of in a Rhett/Scarlett way when he “takes her” against her will at first. (some might recall this GWtW moment before he leaves for Europe with Bonnie). Anyhooz. The horrid thing of this “taking” was that it was in the Sept under the bier of Joff. : ( Who would ever think that was okay? I am thinking that Jamie has actually turned a good leaf now and this was a momentary insanity opportunity and that he will feel rather ashamed afterward. *shrug* If not, Cersie will have her way with him.

    I am warming to the new Daario very much. I loved the challenge scene, very cool and clean. He isn’t smarmy like the old Daario, he looks professional. Danys seems impressed anyway.

    The Hound and the Stark. I am ready for her to dump him already. Or kill him. Or have him fall in a hole. While the chemistry is good between them, she needs to start to grow in a different direction rather than being around someone who is a constant killer and a thief. (I have to admit that my brain has a hard time really seeing a little girl as a bad ass killer. It just doesn’t compute).

    I am “up all the way” with Oberyn. I agree with Oz that there is something fundamentally very honest about him…the way he kills, loves or talks. He can be trusted to really Eff you up or love you until the sun comes up. I like him. Can’t wait to see what happens with the Mountain. Don’t really care for his paramour …

    As usual, it isn’t 12 hours since the show ended and I am already chopping at the bit to see the next episode.

  21. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    Agreed on the best scene. I love every Davos and Shireen scene. They have great chemistry and he seems like the dad Stannis can’t be.

  22. GeekFurious
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    NomadicDirewolf:
    btw guys, alex graves (director of this episode) stated in an interview that he thought it was ‘consensual by the end’ (even though tbh it didnt look that way)

    Good to know. I had wondered about that (perhaps the scene was made less obvious by an edit that took out her moment of clear consent). In any way, this is why I say wait for the followup episode to see if they cover it. Or if they just made too much of an edit to the scene and unintentionally made the audience think it was rape.

  23. Lyanna Mormont
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    NomadicDirewolf:
    btw guys, alex graves (director of this episode) stated in an interview that he thought it was ‘consensual by the end’ (even though tbh it didnt look that way)

    And in a different interview he explicitly referred to it as rape. “And then Jaime comes in and he rapes her,” were the exact words.

  24. House Baggins
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Could you please elaborate on your dislike of Daario?

  25. Benjen
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    I think Cersei saying no applied to the location/timing more so than the actual action. Everyone knows Cersei’s personality, I think if she didn’t want some she wouldn’t have given in so easily.
    I’d say like 15% rape and 85% consensual.

  26. Aphrodite
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    I cannot stand Ygritte and don’t think getting betrayed by Jon Snow was any excuse to act like she did today. Never liked her or that whole storyline.

    To me it felt like the episode was cut short. Like it should have been 10 minutes longer to see how things played out in Meereen. I feel they could have cut short the Sam/Gilly scenes and added more here instead.

    Also blown away by the Littlefinger revelation. So much for everyone’s poison in the necklace theories, LOL. Guess he really is the most dangerous man in Westeros. Now to see what he does with Sansa.

    A friend of mine tells me that Stannis is a favorite character on another board. The character has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. I don’t get it. The only reason I like to see him is because I enjoy Davos Seaworth

  27. wizardeyes
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    Benjen,

    I’m just gonna go duck and cover from the shit storm that is about to hit you.

  28. wizardeyes
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

    Aphrodite,

    Stannis is a favourite of most people that have read the books. He’s one of those people that is hilarious but doesn’t realise it.
    “They don’t have enough men between them to raid a pantry.” He NEEDS more screen time.

  29. Hexonx
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger: If you think “I haven’t gotten laid in a while” is a justification for rape, you’re inevitably going to have a pretty tough time in a court of law.

    Sounds like TSM is providing motivation not justification to me.

  30. GillySnowStark
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    Can anyone tell me if the original actor portraying Dahris Nahari changed? I remember him in series 3 with long blonde hair.

    wizardeyes:
    Gods bless Liam Cunningham! He’s such a cool dude.
    Fun fact – he’s best friends with Michael Fassbender

    http://static.diary.ru/userdir/2/2/4/3/2243671/71746250.jpg

  31. GeekFurious
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    wizardeyes:
    Benjen,

    I’m just gonna go duck and cover from the shit storm that is about to hit you.

    It’s going to be difficult to get mad at him when he essentially said what the director and actor have now said publicly. It may have started out rape-like, but it became consensual. While I agree it doesn’t play out that clearly in the episode (or… clear… at… all), their failure in making it obvious to the audience doesn’t change their intent. So, what Benjen said is technically more accurate than any other argument any of us have made.

  32. TSM
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    What I’m saying is that I understand why he did it, but I’m not agreeing with his decision. But I also have no sympathy whatsoever for Cersei. However, if it was anyone else other than Cersei, I’d be really pissed off.

  33. Niamhy
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    TSM,

    He hasn’t had sex for a while and she was kissing him? Are you really excusing rape? Because that’s what it was. And yeah, she was kissing Jamie, but as soon as she said no, he should have stopped. They’ve ruined Jamie in my eyes, all his redemption is out the window.

  34. TSM
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    Nope,

    I do not support rape. In fact, if it was any other lady, I won’t be happy about it at all. But it’s Cersei! I can never feel bad for Cersei.

  35. TSM
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    Niamhy,

    Again I’m not excusing rape, I wish I can edit my post. It seems everyone has misunderstood me. What I meant was, I understood what was going through Jamie at the time. I’m not saying it’s fine to rape. Yes, he should’ve stopped when she said no, but then again it Cersei! How can I feel bad for Cersei after all she’s done? If Jamie had raped any other woman, I would hate it.

  36. Hear Me Roar
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    There is now a new post to where this debate can slowly migrate to. Unless you are unsullied, then you’re most welcome here.

    For the rest, just a reminder that no spoilers, veiled or otherwise will be allowed here.

    Oz, great job. Cannot emphasize enough how much I enjoy your views and the way you present them.

  37. Mariya Martell
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    What did I tell you last week about you not acting on your threats? I hope you have realised by now you will never see your dear Lysa again.

  38. Dave
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    jayceedee,

    Regarding motives: While Littlefinger’s ultimate goal is murky at best, I think back to Varys’s “I serve the Realm” statement. Even murdering Danaerys is not out of bounds for The Spider if it will save lives.

    Joffrey’s killing of Ned Stark started the War of the Five Kings and resulted in countless dead; perhaps putting Tommen on the throne makes even killing his brother easier to contemplate.

    Ned Stark: “Who do you truly serve?”

    Varys: “The Realm, my lord. Someone must.”

  39. wizardeyes
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    Samwell,

    Its what wildlings do. They raid and pillage and kill.

  40. GillSnowStark
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    Has the part of Dahris Nahari been recasted?

  41. Zack
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    Once again a joyous read. Really enjoying the newcomer perspective you’re bringing. For me, it helps to highlight the strengths and flaws of the adaptation as compared to the text. When you’re noticing clues that I wasn’t sure would stick out, it tells me I don’t need to worry, for instance.

    I’m glad you liked that Tyrion/Pod scene too. Daniel Portman as Pod is one of the show’s treasures, in my opinion. He is wonderful.

  42. Fraq
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    “You’ll never be a good hand if you see the word “Knight” and say Ker-Niggit!”

    My Favorite Quote this week by far.

  43. Rafael
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    wizardeyes:
    Benjen,

    I’m just gonna go duck and cover from the shit storm that is about to hit you.

    lol :D

  44. Turri
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    Favorite Quote: “Are you going to do all seven of the fuckers?”

    (Perfectly channeling my thinking during Easter family dinner.)

  45. Pau Soriano
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

    wizardeyes:
    Samwell,

    Its what wildlings do. They raid and pillage and kill.

    Exactly lol…what does people think happen in a war?? For the wildlings is either they or them, a matter of survival. Anybody would do the same. The southerners locked them up behind the wall to die, they’re just defending themselves

  46. Pau Soriano
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    GillSnowStark:
    Has the part of Dahris Nahari been recasted?

    Yes

  47. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    House Baggins,

    Sure… I never said dislike. The jury is still out. The primary reason is that I feel like I don’t know him. From the little we have seen of him, he has none of the same mannerisms as Ed Skrein. Now, that’s not necessarily a bad thing, but there was no real transition from the old to the new and Huisman looks and sounds completely different.

    GillSnowStark,

    This should answer your question.

  48. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    Hear Me Roar,

    Many thanks Marko. You are the man.

    Mariya Martell,

    Why hast thou forsaken me?

  49. Anzah
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    I think in the middle of all the Jon/Ygritte shipping, you guys kind of forgot why the wildlings came south in the first place. Hell, the reason they “broke up” is because Jon refused to kill an innocent old man, something Ygritte had no problem with – she did it instead. This isn’t Ygritte reacting to Jon’s desertion. It’s her DOING HER EFFIN’ JOB.

  50. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    anders,

    The books are not supposed to be mentioned here, but thanks for clarifying. The true Unsullied have no idea.

    Seems I would have been better off recapping that 3 minutes of the show and going to bed on time.

  51. TT
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    Seeing Littlefinger immediately popped another name in my head… I don’t see Littlefinger acting alone and I don’t think Lysa holds much sway over Littlefinger. I’m beginning to suspect someone that I discarded after seeing the previous episode. We’ve all seen who Littlefinger was sucking up to in the previous season… Anyway, I haven’t made up my mind on the whodunnit. Could be the Iron Bankers for all I know.

    Favorite quote that hasn’t been mentioned AFAIK:
    Stannis to Davos: “You’re a literary man now, what do you make of that” :-) Touché!

    Also, I’m entirely intrigued by the scene between Tywin and Oberyn. The tension was delicious… “Categorically” *smiles* muah :). Really looking forward to how that alliance of sorts is going to play out.

    Liked the pacing this episode. Wasn’t impressed with the pacing the first half of episode 2… thought that events just didn’t fit episode 2.

    So far ep. 1>3>2 even though 2 had the PW. I just wish I wasn’t spoiled with the term Purple Wedding, because I immediately concluded that it was Joffrey that was going to die and that he would choke. I’ve asked a good friend that has read the books, to say absolutely nothing about the books even if she thinks it won’t spoil anything. Some people have enough with one word and an expression on the face of the one saying it, to deduce what is going to happen.

    Many thanks to the moderator(s) for keeping this thread spoiler free… and Oz for giving us Unsullieds a place to hang out :).

  52. YeOldGods
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    wizardeyes,

    Jackass Award: Congratulations to Ygritte for shooting an unexpecting loving father with one of your arrows. This is your first award and first nomination in this category. And you definitely earned it.

    Right, wrong, or indifferent, this is Wildling culture. They follow and admire only strength, cunning, and ferocity. Their world (North of the Wall) has no room sudden moral dilemmas in the midst of a raid.

  53. Hear Me Roar
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    As Oz says, no mention of books at all, that’s a hard rule.

  54. GillSnowStark
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    Pau Soriano,

    Thank you!

  55. GillSnowStark
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    Yes it did. I agree with you about nu Daharis I liked the first one much better. Thank you.

  56. Blood Crow
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

    Didn’t you like Tyrion’s quote: “They, the ominous they” when warning Pod

  57. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

    Blood Crow,

    I did. And really enjoyed that scene with them.

    Fraq,

    At first, I didn’t know what she said. Funny as hell.

  58. TOIVA
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    First of all, best episode of the season. A great, balanced one.

    Funny thing about Joffrey poisoning: it could have been Tywin and Olenna with help of Littlefinger. Except both Tywin and Olenna act like simple opportunists, barely caring about the death, just stating the obvious: that it suits them and their grandchildren (Tommen and Margaery).
    Against such scheme points the fact Tywin still doesn’t seem likely to make ANY Lannister look weak (like weak enough to get killed in his presence) or get Tyrion in trouble (had he wanted to get rid of Tyrion, he’d have sent him to the Wall ages ago).
    So I’m back at square one (Margaery now really doesn’t seem like a suspect, sadly). All that I know is Littlefinger knew (was possibly part) of the plot for weeks (apparently stayed closeby – or knew when to return – and thought of how to use the plot to get Sansa).

    But back to ‘Breaker of Chains’: It was a Tywin episode, clearly, which can hardly ever disappoint.
    Sansa once again believes someone only to find out she was tricked. She must really feel stupid now…
    Do Dornish(wo)men never undress for their lounge activities?
    Davos and Shireen is always a delight to watch.
    I like Thenns (sorry, Tormund).
    When it comes to the apparent rape, well, I believe that’s how their relationship always worked and that Jaime is just getting back to what they had together. (Remember the slap worthy line of ‘War for Cersei’s cunt’? They weren’t all that tender there either.) But Cersei is changed, she can no longer live the twincest life yet is now unable to really oppose herself to it (since it’s pretty much all she’s got left – all children pretty much out of her reach now). I think had she really wanted, she could have been more categorical in refusing Jaime. But it was rape, except Jaime doesn’t know it yet (he’s still or wants to be in the Twincest tm).

  59. Feremuntrus
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    I thought it was a very well made episode. Only the Sam scenes seemed to drag a little bit too far.

    P.S. I don’t know if it’s just me but my comments never seem to process through. Hopefully this one does as a test.

    Edit 1: So it worked, do long messages not work or are they supposed to be pre-approved? Can’t seem to write lengthy posts at all.

  60. GillSnowStark
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    DoubleD,

    My guess Oberyn and LF are responsible for the death of the king. LF is not above drugging or poisoning people. LF will do anything for money. Whereas Oberyn has a legit beef with the Lannisters for ordering the death of his sister and her children. I don’t think he will do Tywin bidding and vote to execute Therion.. Remember Oberyn said a child is not responsible for what their fathers do. Theron and Oberyn understand each other because their fathers dislike them.Besides he would’ give up a chance to stick it to Tywin.

  61. Queen of Thorns
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    I think Olenna Tyrell had her hand in poisoning Joffrey. The cup was closest to her just prior to his demise. Also, is anyone else wondering what will happen is Cersei gets pregnant? No marriage to hide behind now……

  62. Ours is the Fury
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    Feremuntrus,

    Sometimes if a post is extremely long or if you accidentally double post, it will get caught in the spam filter. Both is what happened in your case.

  63. YezzanZoQaggaz
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    As a Sullied, I really enjoy reading your recaps, it is refreshing to see a different point of view on the show, one unspoiled by the books.

    What I find somewhat strange though is how many people claim the episode 2 (and 3) Joffrey murder mystery was the first of its kind in Game of Thrones. There are two similar events, which to my best knowledge still remain unanswered (hints were dropped here and there, but no ultimate reveal).

    Who killed John Arryn? (S1E1)

    Who sent the would-be-killer with a fancy dagger to kill Bran? (S1E2)

    Those are the questions I’d like to put before you, Oz, and the other Unsullied. Whether you think those have been resolved already, or are still unclear, and who the suspects are.

  64. Dornish Hen
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

    Oz,

    I always look forward to your Unsullied reports! I love your comment on how Paw Paw was “kidnapping” Tommen. I hadn’t looked at it that way at first, but I agree. I also love how Cercei is just listening and letting it happen. That was a great scene.

  65. TOIVA
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

    YezzanZoQaggaz,

    Good point. Going from those two unknowns, it might very well be possible we never really know who killed Joffrey.

    I kinda believe it was Cersei who sent the killer after Bran and then Littlefinger seized the opportunity and basically made Catelyn take Tyrion, thus starting his loved chaos.

    As to Jon Arryn, again Cersei. Most likely using the ‘old loyal’ Grand Maester in some way. (Also it would fit with Tyrion’s recent line about Cersei having something to do with most of King’s Landing murders.)

    Maybe you could try your hand at a Mystery special speculation post, Oz.

  66. Liz Cook Belcher
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger: If you think “I haven’t gotten laid in a while” is a justification for rape, you’re inevitably going to have a pretty tough time in a court of law.

    Hear hear!

  67. Liz Cook Belcher
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    Queen of Thorns,

    I was thinking the exact same thing!

  68. Liz Cook Belcher
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

    On first watch, I was extremely distressed by the rape…While I still am, I understand something: it was an act of hatred. Both for Cersei and self-hatred. Excuses nothing, but it’s a thought.

  69. Brendo the Builder
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

    I am a little surprised no one has noted my favorite line, When Davos tells Shireen “Your father lacks an appreciation for the finer points of bad behavior.” It may get lost because it’s right before his realization about the Iron Bank, but it’s funny on its own. When you consider he’s saying it about Stannis, who cut off the tips of the fingers of Davos’s left hand for his “bad behavior,” well, it’s downright hysterical.

    Many great scenes in this episode, certainly Tyrion and Pod, and Tywin confronting Oberon in the brothel (his polite refusal to sit on the orgy bed was pretty cute). I thought the momentum built steadily to the gates of Meereen, and that confrontation was brilliantly anti-climactic. First Naharis versus the Peeing Champion (did anyone else think of “Raiders of the Lost Ark”?), but then the siege with broken collars, and that final shot — I thought that was more portentious and dramatic than a full-on battle would have been.

    I do wonder about Danys, though: at what point will all (or at least some of) those people she freed decide that they don’t want to follow her anymore? Will she ever engage her forces in a fight they have to struggle to win? What do her dragons do when she is demanding that various cities in Essos free their slaves? Off making lamb bbq I guess.

    Thanks for the recap, and the “Unsullied” forum.

  70. Reynardd the Fox
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

    Good recap. Good episode. I admit (somewhat sheepishly) to be a bit confused and let down by the episode. Apart from the scene with Tyrion and Pod, everyone in this world seems to be worthless. I’m starting to feel as though I’m watching some weird reality show where the people are so self-conscious that they act like assholes because, well, everyone expects them to be assholes, so that’s exactly what they do. Littlefinger? asshole. Dontos? Drunk, dead, asshole. Tywin? Major asshole. Jaime? asshole. The Wildlings? assholes! The Hound? Big-time asshole. Need I go on? Please don’t tell how “real this is”. I watch this show for entertainment, not for education. I don’t need to be convinced how ugly and brutal life can be. I don’t watch the Hallmark Channel either, so I’m not asking for ponies and rainbows, but come on.

    Even the big fight scene outside the city walls was anti-climatic. The old Dario maybe-mighta could have pulled this off (in a Harrison-Ford-roguish kind of way.) Those who like the persona of a “hard-boiled sell sword” didn’t see a rough and tumble fighter. Bron could have pulled that move off. New Dario guy was UNCONVINCING. Too much build up for too little a fight. Too trite. Unsatisfying and a waste of time. Where were the dragons? Want to inspire a population? How about showing off your THREE BIG DRAGONS!

    The show for me is getting a bit worn out. Maybe my expectations are out of whack. Maybe I had a bad weekend.

    And another thing, for all you “sullied” out there who enjoy pointing out how “quaint and interesting” our unsullied comments are, keep your musings to yourself. Oz has already said you’re welcome here. But commenting on it is a bit like like pinching a kid on his cheek and telling him “how cute he is!!! (gush gush)” You may think it, but the kid does NOT enjoy hearing it and in now way enjoys having his check pinched. Keep it to yourself. Post on other threads. Oh, and please, really, honestly, NO HINTS on this thread! Thanks for listening.

  71. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

    TOIVA,

    I’m flattered by the notion, but it might be considered cruel and unusual punishment to expose you fine people to an Unsullied mystery speculation post.

  72. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 11:36 pm | Permalink

    Reynardd the Fox,

    Intriguing comments and I appreciate your honesty. Hopefully you just had a bad weekend and it will pass.

    Funny that you mention Harrison Ford… my first thought after the Daario/Champion scene was the Raiders scene where the swordsman comes out and does this immaculate display only to get blasted by Jones’ gun. I felt like I had seen it before and that could be another reason that, IMO, the new Daario was unconvincing as well.

  73. Ughhh
    Posted April 21, 2014 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

    bob,

    So, you’re saying that spousal abuse/rape is okay. As long as the husband, or in this case the brother lover, is no longer putting up with HER crap. So, following that logic, is it okay for a woman to rape her lover/brother/husband/random victim because she no longer wants to put up with his crap… Talk about idiotic, your logic is idiotic. There is no excuse for rape and this version was definitely rape. It’s not feminist, it’s humanist.

  74. Ricko
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 12:14 am | Permalink

    The Wilding raid on the village supports Jon’s warning to Ygritte that the Wildings cannot win the war along the wall. Tormund and the Thenns may be good at pillaging peasants and eating unarmed civilians but they’d be lunched by a charge of mounted knights or the concentrated arrow storm shown on the Blackwater. Not to mention we’ve seen NO evidence of any skill at siege-craft north of the wall. That will be the big question for Mance; how does he propose to get over a 700 foot ice wall if Ygritte and her merry pranksters can’t open the gate from the Castle Black side?

    As to the Jaime/Cersei coupling in the sept; we’re watching the television program, NOT reading the book. We can only judge the act by what we saw. That my friends was rape, not confusion, not ambiguity but straight up rape. Punishable in Westeros by castration or a trip to the wall for induction to the Night’s Watch. Jaime should watch himself, a Lannister always pays his/her debts and right now Cersei has a large entry in her accounts receivable to retire.

  75. King of the Ashes
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 12:24 am | Permalink

    umm, i would like these a bit more w/o the weird Lysa obsession seeped into every post.. having a favorite character is cool and everyone’s right to play favorite… but some of these comments, personally, seem creepish and really takes away from the article. might be just me though

  76. King of the Ashes
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 12:26 am | Permalink

    and i mean no disrespect btw. just how i feel personally.

  77. grumpycetacean
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 1:07 am | Permalink

    I love that Oz never lets me forget about looking forward to moar Lysa and Robin action.

    Personally Jaime is going to get the jackass award for me for not stopping when asked, but at least people are talking about this ‘grey area’ rape, which is not grey at all. People really do need to talk about how coercion from lovers is rape…even if it’s ‘consensual by the end’, it was not consensual if it was coerced. Pretty disturbing all the kinds of rationalizations coming out from the people involved in making the ep, nevermind the fans. I appreciate Oz’ take on it and wish D&D could grasp things that clearly. I guess I’ll be building a bridge this week to get over it…

  78. Frank
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 1:09 am | Permalink

    King of the Ashes,

    I was thinking the same thing. Getting really annoying I feel like each week there are more stupid pointless not funny comments than actual inciteful analysis.

  79. Bob
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 1:10 am | Permalink

    Ughhh,

    Ughh, you are completely missing the whole point of the scene. It was stated that it was not a rape but demonstrating their dysfunctional relationship. Everyone is getting so wrapped up in the “rape” part, she was kissing him back and yes he was aggressive but that’s not the point. I’m not going to argue about what classifys rape, that’s ridiculous. When the director and author say it was not meant to be viewed as rape, I think I am going to take their word. If it’s to graphic for you then don’t watch, but I guarantee you Cersie will not look at that as a rape and be traumatized. It just bothers me everyone is so focused on Jaime “raping” her and completely ruining his character development.

  80. Magiese
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 5:16 am | Permalink

    Liz Cook Belcher:
    On first watch, I was extremely distressed by the rape…While I still am, I understand something: it was an act of hatred.Both for Cersei and self-hatred. Excuses nothing, but it’s a thought.

    I have the same feelings here.

    Considering the context of Jaime’s character growth — Starting as a completely evil jerk in the beginning, then having all his self-loathing revealed, followed by all the good-guy exposure he got with Brienne, and now he’s been back in King’s Landing and has been trying to go back to being Jaime the anti-knight just like he was before, but he can’t…
    So now we know there’s this person who everyone thinks he is and expects him to be, including himself, but he hates it, so he’s trying to get back to a place where he can just go with the flow and not think about it anymore. But everyone’s making it hard for him and reminding what an awful person he is, he’s lost what self-worth he had with his hand, and his “I’ve only loved one woman” thing that HE considered noble of himself is broken with Cersei rejecting him, and what I construe as a dawning realization that he can’t actually stand Cersei anymore.
    So he wants to be in love with her and make love to her, but really he hates her and he hates himself too, and what would the kind of person he hates do? He’s already the Kingslayer. What’s a Queenraper compared to that?

    After thinking about it, I see that scene as a (possibly climatic) existential crisis on Jaime’s part.
    Honestly, it would have been more disturbing to me if it had been played as a passionate, consensual moment between them. It’d be like throwing away all of the development over the past three years and going back to Jaime and Cersei as of Season one, Episode one. But even worse, what with the dead body of their first born son RIGHT there.

  81. Michael Jordan
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 5:53 am | Permalink

    Overall the show is still tremendous.

    I just don´t like the way how Dany´s storyline has fallen apart from being absolutely magnificent. Ever since she got her army and marched out of that city her dragons burned, her journey has been full of ridicilous and childish scenes, bad writing and bad acting. The strike to Yunkai by Grey Worm, Daario and Jorah, the crowd surfing, the gambling between grey worm and Daario, everything that happened in Meereen (the stupid knight incident, arrows being shot ridicilously accurate)… it´s all like watching a different show. A show thats ment to please people who like Indiana Jones type of thing. Thats just not my cup of tea.

  82. Aaron
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 6:36 am | Permalink

    Michael Jordan:
    Overall the show is still tremendous.

    I just don´t like the way how Dany´s storyline has fallen apart from being absolutely magnificent. Ever since she got herarmy and marched out of that city her dragons burned, her journey has been full of ridicilous and childish scenes, bad writing and bad acting. The strike to Yunkai by Grey Worm, Daario and Jorah, the crowd surfing, the gambling between grey worm and Daario, everything that happened in Meereen (the stupid knight incident, arrows being shot ridicilously accurate)… it´s all like watching a different show. A show thats ment to please people who like Indiana Jones type of thing. Thats just not my cup of tea.

    The arrows were warning shots. Khaleesi’s story is my favorite, they could dump everything else and just focus on her tbh. Every episode her scenes move me one way or another (the crowd surfing almost had me crying). But I’m waaay too invested in that fictional character thanks to the books lol.

  83. Gosensgo
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    King of the Ashes,

    King of the Ashes,

    I think it’s just you!

  84. Gosensgo
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    So many complaints going on here about this show and this episode… It’s ruining the experience of loving and discussing the show.
    Get over it, the show is the show and it is what it is… Enjoy it.
    Every episode gets better and better and cannot wait till Sunday!!!!!!
    Love Dany!!!
    And I am not really shocked to see LF involved in this at all… Last week he was on top of my list to be somewhat involved but I just don’t know how…
    I REALLY WANT TO KNOW.
    For some reason I think tywin had a hand in this also.

    Oz – love the article… Such a good read
    When do you post your looking forward articles? I always miss them.

  85. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    King of the Ashes,

    No disrespect taken. To be honest, it’s not really an obsession. But I am interested in seeing her current state of mind, her interaction with Robin, and exactly how she and Robin are going to react when Littlefinger comes calling with a marriage proposal.

    Gosensgo,

    After getting a little non-spoilery background info from another contributor, I understand more why the internet is blowing up with Jaime/Cersei controversy. However, you are right… we haven’t even touched on some of the other aspects of the episode.

    Looking Forward is usually posted late Friday or early Saturday U.S. time. Most likely Saturdays from here on. And thanks Gosens! Hope the studies are going well.

  86. Gosensgo
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    thanks Oz, the studies are done, I am officially certified to account! LOL

    Ya i think i kind of realized also why everyone is complaining…
    Its kind of annoying.
    The show is NOT the book exactly.. its a known fact

  87. David The Grey
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones: But I am interested in seeing her current state of mind, her interaction with Robin, and exactly how she and Robin are going to react when Littlefinger comes calling with a marriage proposal.

    Along with that, I would love to see Kate Dickie back. I really enjoyed her portrayal of Lysa. Love her accent.

    Thanks Oz for another great Unsullied recap.

  88. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Gosensgo,

    Well, congrats are in order! Ozzette just got done with tax season. Geeez. Good luck with that.

    I can’t decide if the bulk of the complaining is because of book deviation, or the fact that rape was depicted on television, or because Jaime was the instigator. Maybe a combination of all? Unfortunately, rape is a part of the world this whole show is based on, so that shouldn’t be a shocker.

    This is not an invitation to get into boom discussion (not here anyway), but from the few things I’ve been told, this is more of a an issue with making Jaime a villain again more than anything else. But of course, I could most definitely be wrong.

    As a reminder to everyone…
    **NO SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD**

  89. David The Grey
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger: Agreed on the best scene. I love every Davos and Shireen scene. They have great chemistry and he seems like the dad Stannis can’t be.

    Agreed here too. From the beginning, those two have a great chemistry and I always end up smiling and feeling that warmth. Davos giving her a kiss on the forehead sealed the deal, he would be an excellent father for her. Glad he is around to be an uncle figure at least!

    Edit: I was agreeing with loving every Davos and Shireen scene. I cut/pasted at the wrong starting point. (Favorite scene for me was maybe the Sam & Gilly scene plucking geese. I think. Still trying to make up my mind.)

  90. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    David The Grey,

    I concur. Her portrayal of Lysa is notable on a number of levels. Can you imagine reading the Lysa script from S1? “You want me to what?”

    And you are most welcome, Ser David.

  91. Gosensgo
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    That is true…
    However, afterall he is a lannister. I am team stark! Thus he is a villian. HOWEVER, I have started to like him a little, started to warm up to him, and to be honest, that has NOT changed after that scene. Cersei is a horrible horrible horrible horrible person.

    Edit: and thank you! it has been a long time coming… I actually do not prepare taxes. Lucky for me, I am an auditor!

  92. David The Grey
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    I bet there have been a lot of actors that have said that on this show!

  93. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    Gosensgo,

    I think that is the reason that so many Unsullied thought that Cersei might be a suspect… yes, she loves her children and it’s her only endearing quality, but she comes across as someone who loves herself more and would be willing to do just about anything to preserve her power. And then there’s the “Loras” issue…

    Ozzette is an auditor also, but got dragged into tax when the deadline approached to help out. Beware!

    David The Grey,

    No doubt.

  94. Gosensgo
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    very true
    you are wise
    You should be king!

  95. clegane
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    I liked how in the episode almost everyone went against the hollywood “good guy” stereotype. they really hit home that we are dealing with middle ages morals here.
    it is quite hard to watch it and still like the characters from our modern viewpoint, but that’s just one of the reasons why this story is unique.

  96. TOIVA
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    Speaking of Jaime as a villain, I liked him very much till the moment he and Brienne got captured by Locke. From then on, he really didn’t feel right (his bath monologue was memorable, but still felt off to me). The way he’s getting more arrogant and now does stupid things just to keep some semblance of good old times with Cersei, the character feels whole to me again.

    Maybe that’s why I never liked Tyrion so much in comparison, he was just too good, too kind, …

    And Oz, I’m fine with getting through ‘cruel and unusual punishement‘ to get the Unsullied speculation post. That is, if unlike Theon I keep all my parts.

  97. Faceless
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    My favourite scene was without a doubt the final one, where the slave picked up a collar and looked at it and then at his master. It was very emotional to me and a very strong scene, wordless and perfect. That one minor character was my favourite in that episode. I do not know, I might’ve even shed a tear or a laughter of happiness during the final seconds.

  98. gbnf
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

    Hey Oz, loved the recaps.
    First off No means No & rape is wrong. Having said that I tried to have sympathy for Cersei but found I have 0. I am more disappointed in Jaime. I had thought his character had evolved. You could say it’s passion, but with all the fine whores in the city you could find a more willing companion who isn’t such a hateful bitch.

    I have to laugh at the Ygritte hate. Yes its harsh, but what do you think war is? Have you forgotten what is coming up behind the Wildings? The reason why all these different groups have banded together & fled their homes?

    Tywin is a shrewd mofo, he brushed off Joffery’s death & pointed out to Tommen(spelling?) the attributes needed to be a good king. Makes a deal with a man he knows wants to kill him, to shore up potential weaknesses.

    The ride is getting better

  99. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

    gbnf,

    You are correct. Of course, no means no in a law abiding society, and Westeros seems anything but.
    It’s similar to what clegane said. The characters don’t live by our rules and our “modern viewpoint”. They are all trying to survive the war, and eventually Winter.

    And I didn’t mean to hate on Ygritte. I realize she has a job to do and that ultimately, as much as I really want to like her, she is still a Wildling.

    And I agree… it’s getting better.

  100. Reynardd the Fox
    Posted April 22, 2014 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

    Sorry if my earlier unduly negative post spoiled the spirit of this forum. It is literally the only place I feel comfortable discussing and reading about GoT, so please know how much I appreciate it (thanks, OZ and moderators!)

    I appreciate the points that were made regarding analysis versus emotional response and I’d like to point that Oz’s posts include both. I do feel that the directors/producers are making some mistakes (granted, within the context of being potentially one of the greatest shows in TV history so far) and I do think it’s ok if we discuss our views on those mistakes. If everyone wants this to be a place where only love is shown for the show, fine, but then it should be explicitly stated as such.

    I understand the perspective of “we can’t apply today’s morals to another time period”, but at the same time, this is not history, it is fiction, and it is designed as a creative expression and thus, has some audience in mind.

    I’ll go into analyzing a creative work as far as the author/designer/creator takes me. For example, Raiders of the Lost Ark does not encourage a deep analysis based on metaphors, structural content, or imagery. A example on the other extreme would be the movie Tree of Life, which does concern itself with those issues and directly invites the viewer to analyze it. GoT is more in the former camp than the later, and so, it subject to evaluation as entertainment for its intended audience.

    I believe that GRRM has it in him to be somewhat of a twit and to be a little cruel. Why, I’m not sure, but that’s my impression based on a relatively limited exposure to him. I think the producers are pretty smart and capable and so far have done a great job overall. It’s like going to a restaurant with a great chef who likes to use a lot of spice in his cooking. I love spice, but I’m not someone who wants his head blown off with ghost peppers. I get that some people live for “the pain of the burn”. I’m not one of those. I love “jalepeno hot” and even like some stuff “habanero hot”, but I’m not a masochist looking for the hottest chili on the planet. There needs to be balance and beauty to go with the ugly. Last episode was out of balance for me.

  101. Gosensgo
    Posted April 23, 2014 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    I wonder what the aftermath of and cersei’s reaction to Jamie’s actions will be next episode.

  102. Thronetender
    Posted April 23, 2014 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    Reynardd the Fox – thank you so much! My very sullied faith in humanity and common sense was somewhat restored by reading the last lines of your comment of April 22: “There needs to be balance and beauty to go with the ugly. Last episode was out of balance for me.” OMG I was beginning to think the world was on the brink of total mental breakdown. Yes, I agree, things were thrown more out of balance than usual with this episode.

    Aside from the scene in the Sept, which I will get to in a minute, I couldn’t believe the audacity of Tywin striding into the brothel seeking Oberyn. He finds Oberyn eagerly participating in a bisexual orgy. Far from being perturbed or even openly disgusted, he treats the man with respect and offers him a position in the council; worse yet, he wants him to sit in judgment of Tyrion, the whole while with that big, snarky Tywin smirk on his face. Wasn’t Tyrion’s whoring the constant thorn up Tywin’s ass? “You’ve been whoring around….” “You brought that whore to court.” Blah Blah Blah. Poor Tyrion can’t catch a break from any direction. To be constantly berated his whole life for being a very sexual man, only to have a bisexual, sworn enemy to the Lannisters have Tywin’s approval. Yet the poor little dude still has the heart and humanity to tell Pod to save his own ass and get the hell out of Dodge. I guess that’s about the only balance and beauty we will find in that episode, but thank goodness it’s there.

    And now, trying very hard to be balanced about Jaime … The incident has been shredded and re-shredded all over the internet. Yes, it totally looked like rape to me, from beginning to end. No, it should not be in any way excused or accepted. HOWEVER, not one review I’ve read has mentioned the look on Jaime’s face when Cersei insists that he kill Tyrion. He is shocked, appalled. No, he says, that’s our brother. He knows Tyrion would never kill the little stinko. Slap him around, yes. Kill, no. Yet here is this hateful, gotta be the head bitch no matter what, woman insisting he do more damage to everything that might be left of his humanity. OK, Bitch, you want me to f**k up our brother? How bout we start with f**king you? Not an excuse, but a weird, King’s Landing style of balance.

  103. Gosensgo
    Posted April 24, 2014 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    Thronetender,

    well said!

  104. Danarya
    Posted April 24, 2014 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Oz, my Southern brother from another mother, you rock! I love reading your articles. I am curious about the Lysander obsession–we’re you breasted as a baby? Or do you just like crazy ladies? :)

  105. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 24, 2014 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    Danarya,

    You rock as well, ma’lady. How far Southern are you?

    I’m pretty sure I’m just drawn to crazy, sometimes difficult, independent minded women… glutton for punishment I suppose. :)

  106. Thronetender
    Posted April 24, 2014 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    Gosengo – Thanks

    After seeing Jaime with Brienne, I just wasn’t ready to totally give up on him, even after the inexcusable scene in the Sept. Think about it – when your family is the trendsetter for the nation and the only woman you’ve ever been close with is literally a Royal Bitch, you tend to think her ways are the best and only. Therefore, “good” women are merely quaint wannabes, not worthy of serious consideration or emulation. But he was forced to see both Catelyn and Brienne as the strong, worthy, fiercely loyal individuals they are; much to his shock, he found them admirable, and realized he wanted to be worthy in their eyes, as well. Remember the scene with Brienne in Season 3? “Jaime, my name is Jaime.”

    Before Cercei insists that he kill Tyrion, the only other request from a woman he had to consider was from Brienne insisting that he be GOOD for goodness sake, and protect Sansa. Not to kill someone, but to preserve life. To be the good man he seemed to want to become. The requests are in stark contrast to each other. That’s why he called Cercei a hateful woman. He knows the difference first hand now.

    Anyway, only a few more days to wait until the next episode.

  107. Oz of Thrones
    Posted April 24, 2014 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

    Thronetender,

    I think this is spot on, and I’m not even British. Damn good point.

  108. Reynardd the Fox
    Posted April 24, 2014 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    Thronetender,

    Excellent observations and comments. One of the most compelling aspects of this program is that they *have* built complex characters with many dimensions and thus are able to express different behaviors in different situations (how many of us are always consistent in our behavior?)This complexity brings depth to the experience of watching. I don’t know anyone exactly like any of the characters (not sure I’d want to) and I certainly don’t pretend to live in a society with the norms of Westeros. However, that doesn’t doesn’t mean that aren’t explanations (not rationalizations!) for their often unseemly choices, actions, and decisions. It will be interesting to see how the next episode unfolds. Thanks again for the insight.

  109. Danarya
    Posted April 25, 2014 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    Oz of Thrones,

    I’m in North Carolina, Oz.

  110. pragmanister
    Posted April 25, 2014 at 9:30 pm | Permalink
  111. Udi
    Posted April 27, 2014 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    Gosensgo,

    Will you consider becoming master of coin or do you have a job proposal at the Iron bank of Braavos?

  112. Udi
    Posted April 27, 2014 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    Thronetender,

    Great read!
    I agree with all you said. Two other moments of… well – not redemption but at least tenderness are the Sam and Gilly scenes and the Davos and Shireen scene. Other than those Dany of course continues to be the Martin Luther Queen of Essos (albeit a violent version). But yes, it still feels like this episode lacked balance in the sense you mentioned.


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