Day 64: Casting extras in Morocco

This place looks beautiful and I already want to go there.

Different ethnicities? Sounds like slaves from all over Essos.

I actually auditioned to be an Unsullied extra but due to the size of my manhood I was refused as I could not possibly pull of being a eunuch. HAR says Tormund Giantsbane.

Ouarzazate is inland and is where the Atlas Film Corporation and a couple of other studios are based. Atlas still has the sets for Kingdom of Heaven – the last pics I saw had a few old siege engines laying around, which might be handy ;)

Rygar,

I thought you said somewhere you were female?

This makes me so happy! Excuse me while I giggle in a corner…

Tír Airgid,

I hope David J. Peterson is again responsible for this. A real language system is so much better than just made up yada yada. – But I am sure he is. ;-)

Rygar:
LOL.Probably because of my man crush on Jorah.

Nope, real name is Ryan.

Man crushes on Jorah are okay. They’re not even considered gay.

SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you haven’t read up to A feast For Crows, then you shouldn’t read ANY of this. You’ve been warned…

Hey fellow fans,

I have a pretty crazy theory that I’d like to share with you, just to get some opinions from those that have read the books. First I will say my theory, then I will give reason to back it up. Here goes: I’m pretty certain that Jaqen H’ghar is Rhaegar Targaryen. Now before you dismiss this theory outright, at least hear my reasons.

When Robert supposedly slew Rhaegar on the Trident, we’re expected to believe that it was actually Rhaegar who was fighting because the look of his armor is described in great detail several times. It could’ve been anyone wearing that armor and his face was hidden by his helm. And it’s already been established in this series that some people have worn the armor of others for various reasons. (Garlan Tyrell wearing Renly’s armor during the battle of blackwater, Rorge wearing the Hound’s dog helm and doing horrible things that made people think that it was Sandor)

When Dany asked Barriston Selmy about Rhaegar, he tells her that his wasn’t much of a fighter as a boy but he loved to read. Then one day, he read something in some old Valyrian scrolls. Nobody knows what it was he read but right after that, he felt that it was his duty to now be a warrior. GRRM wouldn’t go out of his way to include that information if it didn’t have real significance. And the religion if R’hllor and the prince who was promised is tied in with the Targaryens. Maester Aemon makes mention of the prophecy of the Prince Who Was Promised several times and for while, the Aemon and Rhaegar thought that Rhaegar might be him.

After Jaqen changes his face and parts ways with Arya, I thought that maybe that was the last we had seen of him. But in the prologue of A Feast For Crows, we meet a man who refers to himself as the Alchemist. When his facial features are described, it’s the exact face the Jaqen changed into. He offered to give Pate (who gets called the pig boy, which he hates) a golden dragon if he would steal him a copy of a master key to the maester’s citadel. Even Pate wonders why this Alchemist would want the key. He thinks that maybe the Alchemist wants to get his hands on the old Valyrian scrolls that the maesters have locked away. So they make the trade, Pate gets the golden dragon coin, bites into it and drops dead. Later in the book, when Samwell finally makes it to the citadel, he tells one of the archmaesters everything that Maester Aemon told him about Dany and her dragons. In the same room, a young man introduces himself to Sam as Pate, like the pig boy. We obviously know that the real Pate died in the beginning of the book and would never introduce himself as the pig boy because he hated being called that. So obviously Jaqen stole the real Pate’s identity. If he’s not Rhaegar, then why would some faceless man give a shit about old Valyrian scrolls?

Jaqen also believes in the R’hllor. Ans because he’s a faceless man, he changes his face, name, accent, everything. So he could be anyone.

The main reason that got me thinking about Jaqen is that out of all the characters in this series, he’s the only on whose motives are a complete mystery. So if any of you fans took that time to read my whacked out theory, please respond. I would love to hear your thoughts.

Later!

Maegor The Cruel,

Dude! Spoiler tags!

Maegor The Cruel,

I love theories … :D

I like the theory but I think it’s a stretch. The motivations of faceless men are a mystery unless you know who hired them. For all we know Varys wants the scrolls for young Griff.

BTW should I start calling you son?

Aegon the Conqueror,

I agree. However, faceless men are usually hired to be assassins, not thieves. Also to add a little to this theory of mine, when we see what Arya has to go through in her training to be a faceless man, it’s not only to show us what she’s has to go through but Jaqen as well. And aslo, why go out of the way to make mention of the fact that Jaqen is a follower of the red god. But hey, I love having these kinds of discussions. I want people to challenge my theory because then i get to hear some cool thoughts from other people.

Macha,

Right before Pate give the Alchemist the master key, he thinks to himself that the Alchemist might be after the Valyrian scrolls. Also, Why would a faceless man be at the Citadel? Just to kill a maester? Doesn’t seem very likely.

Aegon the Conqueror,

Hahaha that would make perfect sense. I am a vicious son of a bitch though hahaha

Maegor The Cruel,
This is an interesting one. It is clear to me from the books that we will learn a lot more about Rhaegar, what happened in the time period before his death (or “death”), and particularly his relationship with Lyanna. It is not entirely implausible to me that he’s still alive. Don’t know if everything in your theory fits together though. I put it a few notches below the theory that Rhaegar and Lyanna are Jon Snow’s birth parents on the plausibility scale – but like I said, I fully expect more Rhaegar revelations to come.

chris:
has anyone else noticed that the religion of the old gods and R’hllor both appear to be “true” in some sense in that the books attest to supernatural activity attributed to both, but no such confirmation (miracles, supernatural stuff, etc.) for the Seven. I have no idea what this means, but I found it interesting.

Yep. The same notice here. I’ve even wondered what made people reject such living deities. It’s just odd: who, being sane and seeing proofs of divine existence, chooses gods without real power?

Maegor The Cruel,

If x is actually x than if D and D know if x is x then maybe that’s why we didn’t see the HOTU as we should have. Tom Wlaschia as Rhaegar would have have it away. I had a theory once that Melisandre was Lyanna Stark with a glammer. lol.

Seeing Linda pissed is so out of style. Seeing her happy, now thats something worth checking out!

Interesting to read so many theories regarding a woman’s beloved’s true identity. Jaqen as Rhaegar is doubtful, as there was no mention in FIVE BOOKS of any doubt that Rhaegar was the Targaryean smashed to death with Robert’s war hammer at the Trident. And no mention in FIVE BOOKS of any anomalies regarding Rhaegar’s body, and as we see in AFFC they lay the deceased out in a viewing ceremony so they can all see it’s the person they thought it was. AAAAAAAND Jaqen was very much alive, so how would you account for the body they buried (presumably) that looked like Rhaegar? Interesting theory, but improbable with the current information available. Well written though Your Grace Maegar!

Macha:
Maegor The Cruel,

Re: the spoiler tag. Do you always read texts from the first sentence downwards while browsing pages? The tag is there for a reason.

I love theories as well, however this seems more like a case of wanting things to fit together. Jaqen could be anyone, but what evidence is there for Rhaegar to be trained as a Faceless Man? Plus, we don’t know what the Alchemist is after. You assume it might be those Valyrian scrolls, but at this point there is – again- no evidence for that whatsoever. He could after some other scrolls/book entirely.

I must concur , there is no clue or hint to this hypothesis. Passionately presented tho :D

Maegor The Cruel,

I’m going to concur with Aegon here, and this is speaking from personal experience. I’m the kind of person that reads many words at once, and I might not actually see the spoiler notice at the beginning of the line before I am thrust with spoiler details below it. Please have a bit of a care.

Rygar:
Seeing Linda pissed is so out of style.Seeing her happy, now thats something worth checking out!

I don’t even know who she is but I wish her happy as well.

Maegor The Cruel,

I have never considered this, and considering some of the things I have considered….. Well, I’m not sure it’s plausible, but it is an interesting idea! XD

I have wondered why we seem to be following one Faceless Man across Westeros as he does his business… It does seem a bit odd to me. Perhaps GRRM is just connecting the various assiassinations as a way to add foundation for Arya’s later arc?

The biggest question I have about Jaqen H’ghar is “Why was he ithe Black Cells in the first place?”

What was his mission? Who was his target in King’s Landing? Was getting put in the KL dungeons awaiting being taken to the Wall part of his ploy? If so… Who was he supposed to kill at the Wall or had he already killed his target and just got wrapped up in the dungeon sweep for crows?

Of course after he has completed his service to Arya he does not go back to King’s Landing or to the Wall so perhaps neither was part of his mission and he was just in the Black Cells coincidentally…… *shrug*

darquemode:
Maegor The Cruel,

I have never considered this, and considering some of the things I have considered….. Well, I’m not sure it’s plausible, but it is an interesting idea! XD

I have wondered why we seem to be following one Faceless Man across Westeros as he does his business… It does seem a bit odd to me. Perhaps GRRM is just connecting the various assiassinations as a way to add foundation for Arya’s later arc?

The biggest question I have about Jaqen H’ghar is “Why was he ithe Black Cells in the first place?”

What was his mission? Who was his target in King’s Landing? Was getting put in the KL dungeons awaiting being taken to the Wall part of his ploy? If so… Who was he supposed to kill at the Wall or had he already killed his target and just got wrapped up in the dungeon sweep for crows?

Of course after he has completed his service to Arya he does not go back to King’s Landing or to the Wall so perhaps neither was part of his mission and he was just in the Black Cells coincidentally…… *shrug*

I had to let myself breathe again and repeat to myself, GRRM will reveal this in the upcoming book. Right ? I mean it’s not like he will leave us speculating for years to
amirite ?????

I’m hoping he puts together a compendium or followup volume of missing factoids
and timelines .
to iron out the ruffles. Your oints have been echoed by many these past few weeks.

OzViking,

Right. I guess I have heard that theory before, but I am not a fan of the Syrio = Jaqen theory I guess. another theory with little evidence other than suppostion. That dosn’t mean it is untrue of course. Although, if that is the case it answers a few of my questions…..

AFFC and ADWD are littered with casual references to a certain book which taken together seem to indicate that the book was banned by the Targaryen regime but that a single copy remains in the bowels of the citadel. It is called The Death of Dragons and may well contain instructions on how to kill one such. Thus it is distinctly possible that our favorite faceless man is seeking the book in order to complete a contract to kill our three favorite dragons. Given the Braavosi’s feelings about Valyria, it may well be the Iron Bank itself which has paid for this task.

First off, Scotsman Andy Murray won his first Grand Slam Final last night at the U.S. Open Tennis Championships in Flushing Meadows, Queens, New York ! Congratulations Andy! To make it even better, fellow Scotsman Sean Connery (still the best James Bond ever) was in the house! The Kings of the North!!

Cary Storm: Psst: She would know. She’s MRS. H’ghar!

To Mrs. H –

Speaking of Jaqen, it looks like Jaqen/Tom was also busy last night – but he wasn’t playing tennis ;) Check out his Tumblr entry “Not Suitable for Work :D”
Wow – is that you with Jaqen? Love his facial expressions – especially the way he smiles at you when …. um …..you all get finished. What a doll!

I only speak/read “Google German”, but from what I can make out, it seems there is a good chance he will return to the series in Season 4. Totally can’t wait!

Watson,

I agree with you insofar as there almost has to be a group of characters emerge that are determined to destroy the dragons, even more so than the Mereenese. Given what they did to both Essos and Westeros, it seems inevitable. Of course, they won’t succeed (at least in killing all of them) as that would deprive us of the showdown between the dragons and the others/white walkers (fire and ice).

Carne,

What the heck was the point of introducing him then?

Aegon the Conqueror,

It may have just been a case where the actor wasn’t available for season three (or didn’t want to return because, apparently, much of his material was cut), or perhaps D&D weren’t happy with his performance or simply didn’t want to follow through with that story line after plotting out the third season.

Carne,

It looks like they might be going for that, yeah. But why lose that fantastic moment where we find out someone else has been helping her all along, with other intentions in mind? I’d say that would be a huge minus.

I’d love to check it out – but you didn’t provide a link.

Tereeza777:

Speaking of Jaqen, it looks like Jaqen/Tom wasalso busy last night – but he wasn’t playing tennis ;) Check out his Tumblr entry “Not Suitable for Work :D”

Ser Dontos is not returning because he is too busy filming the Captain America sequel.

Tereeza777:
Arkash,

Quel dommage! Peut-être vous pouvez prendreun congé exceptionnel de votre travail pour participer a lasérie “Le Trône de Fer – n’est ce pas?J’ai visité le Maroc une fois et c’est un beau pays! Quelle chance vous avez d’avoir quelques membres de la famille d’y vivre! Bonne chance!

It is always fascinating to see how people who have learn a language at school or in other countries speak it in a much more sophisticated way than those who grew up in it ! =D

C’est toujours fascinant de voir les gens ayant appris une langue à l’école ou dans d’autres pays la parlent de manière bien plus sophistiquée que ceux qui ont grandi avec ! =D

Not necessarly present, but there to pick up Sansa.

darquemode:
Carne,

I do not get why D&D introduced him if not to have him in Season 3 though. I just goes to show how they really don’t have a established story arc for future seasons…..Knowing that a character is going ot have a larger role in Season 3 would make me think the actor hired to play the role in Season 2 would be locked down for the following year as well.

Well, in all honesty I don’t hae a big issue with Dontos not being part of the season. I guess Littlefinger can take the role of Sansa’s Florian, but I think that part of Sansa’s arc should be smaller than in the book if that is the case. They could spend more time on the Tyrell’s and Sansa’s prospect of marriage and less time on a planned escape from King’s Landing with a conspirator.

Exacto !

Tereeza777:
First off, Scotsman Andy Murray won his first Grand Slam Final last night at the U.S. Open TennisChampionships in Flushing Meadows, Queens, New York !Congratulations Andy!To make it even better, fellow Scotsman Sean Connery (still the best James Bond ever) was in the house! The Kings of the North!!

To Mrs. H –

Speaking of Jaqen, it looks like Jaqen/Tom wasalso busy last night – but he wasn’t playing tennis ;) Check out his Tumblr entry “Not Suitable for Work :D”
Wow–is that you with Jaqen?Love his facial expressions – especially the way he smiles at you when …. um …..you all get finished.What a doll!

I only speak/read “Google German”, but from what I can make out,it seems there is a good chance he will return to the series in Season 4.Totally can’t wait!

Links please! A woman cannot find the page you refer to as there are many pages with the Tom Wlashiha tumblr title, so if you want a reaction to an actual page, please link. Generally speaking though, this woman does not appear in any videos/films/tv with Jaqen, so it’s not going to be me in any of those. Nor photographs. A woman is Faceless.

sjwenings,

Umm have you not been following the posts by Maegor, his theory?

if Jaquen and Rhaegar are one and the same as our colleague is suggesting consider that D and D may know this and that is why we did not have a Rhaegar scene in HOTU as he would look very familiar due to the visual medium. I do concede that while Maegor’s theory has possibilities it also has many nagging doubts as well.

Conversely if Jaquen is Rhaegar, possibly Syrio and Pate could he not also be the Braavosi banker up North with Stannis…somewhat closeby to Jon Snow?

Ours is the Fury,

I confess I did not watch the video but obtained my info from other posts. I retract my previous statement on the matter.

Sorry.

Arya has hair like Jon Snow. Therefore
Jaqen H’Ghar = Syrio = Rhaegar = Arya’s REAL FATHER

Maegor The Cruel,

Why on earth would the impostor then whisper “Lyanna” while dying hmmm? if it fact it was not Rhaegar who died on the Trident. And yes I agree with something someone said, during the funeral they would recognize if it wasn’t Rhaegar.

Maegor The Cruel,

I find the book that Watson talked about much more interesting, and I concur with his/her theory. Pate just thinks these things out loud, and the next thing you know he’s dead. Why should he be right? GRRM is not likely to spoon-feed us the Alchemist’s motivations. On the other hand this…
“And of course there was even less chance of his coming on the fragmentary, anonymous, blood-soaked tome sometimes called Blood and Fire and sometimes The Death of Dragons, the only surviving copy of which was supposedly hidden away in a locked vault beneath the Citadel.”… I find to be much more suited to his style.

Aegon the Conqueror,

Two things:

1. Its was said that Rhaegar whispers a woman’s name but it’s never said that it was Lyanna’s name.

2. When was it ever mentioned that there was a funeral for Rhaegar? I would really love to know. To my recolection, not only was a funeral for him never mentioned once in the books, but they never even said what happened to his dead body in general which only strengthens my theory.

Aegon the Conqueror,

Two things:

1. It was said that Rhaegar whispered a womans name when he died but it was never said that it was Lyanna’s name.

2. At what point in these books is it ever said that Rhaegar was given a funeral? Please tell me, because I would really love to know. And from what I remember, it’s never even mentioned what happened to Rhaegars body in general, which only stregnthens my theory.

Raising my hand

Maegor The Cruel:
2. When was it ever mentioned that there was a funeral for Rhaegar? I would really love to know. To my recolection, not only was a funeral for him never mentioned once in the books, but they never even said what happened to his dead body in general which only strengthens my theory.

Um, wouldn’t the fact that there was no funeral and nobody knows what happened to his body be something that would be odd enough to not only noticed, but probably mentioned and remembered? “Hmm, I wonder what ever happened to Prince Rhaegar’s body? Do you think they ever found it?” “Oh, I dunno…not important I guess.”

People named Pate are more than just minor characters. They’re GRRM’s Redshirts

I heard he washed up at the monks island and he’s digging graves with the hound :)

Maegor The Cruel,

Well, according to GRRM… (warning, that page contains spoilers)

[What happened to Rhaegar's body?]

Rhaegar was cremated, as is traditional for fallen Targaryens.

Bonus points for trying, though. ;-)

Macha,

Oh I am rolling around laughing trying not to yell out told you so!
Congratulations MAcha, you just blew Aerys the Mad King Targeyren’s theory to smithereens!

Maegor The Cruel:
And on a side note,

Has anyone else deduced that Alleras, one of the novices at the Citadel, is one of Oberyn Martell’s sand snake daughter Sarella Sand? The obvious clue is that it’s the same name spelled backwards. Also, when Doran Martell rounds up the other sand snakes, he states the Sarella is away from Dorne playing some game. Also, both characters have Dornish fathers and mothers who are Summer Islanders. I just think that it’s one of many testaments to GRRM’s genius haha.

That theory’s been discussed around the internet for ages now. It’s almost certainly true – to be honest I don’t think GRRM was trying very hard to hide it.

Rygar,

Rygar refer to Macha’s post please.

If Rhaegar was cremated than to me that makes the likelihood that it wasn’t his body that was burned even more possible. They could have used anyone’s corpse for the deception. Maybe Sir Willem Darry before he reached Dragonstone? Barristan Selmy? Re: Mel switching Rattleshirt and Mance in ADWD.
Also if you took some of the letters of the name Jaquen H’ghar you almost get Rhaegar minus an R of course. Humph.

And even if Jaquen is not Rhaegar I have a niggling in the back of my head that he is the Braavosi Banker. His proximity to all the action up north (especially what cataclysmic event that will go down early in TWOW) is too convenient.

Just playing devil’s advocate.

Hey Josh … seen any GoT actors lately :)

OT, but I just finished re-watching Season 2 with a friend who hadn’t seen it…

…and wow, I am blown away by what an AWESOME finale episode Valar Morghulis is. EVERY scene is fantastic. Simply wonderful, from start to finish. Definitely my favourite episode, besides Blackwater.

We all know that Jaqen H’ghar is really Sammy’s brother and his sole purpose is to kill David Lee Roth so that Sammy can rejoin Van Halen.

Lex,

Yeah I just rewatched season 2 and I love it more and more. Valar Morghulis is awesome. I also love The Prince of Winterfell.

Joshua Taylor:
YvyB,

Since I got back to Canada? Nope. Funny that a tour of the highlands would make me run into of the cast members.

Come to think of it I thought I saw Emilia Clarke at Heathrow but then I realized it was just some bohemian girl with platinum hair. Emilia’s a brunette.

Yeah, so nothing.

Ha ha ! I do that all the time … I think we may be slightly obsessed :/

Sandsnake:
Also has anyone heard anything about some of the actors from season 1 returning for characters such as Maester Aemon and Walder Frey? I would hate to see these roles recast as the actors nailed them back in the first season.

I find it impossible at this point to imagine anyone else as Walder Frey :-) He has a strong tendency of continuing in roles he’s done before–I’m sure he’ll be back.

Cary Storm,
LOL

I would be a terrible faceless man. I would only turn myself into Jorah’s sweaty V neck and have no time for assassinations.

If Rygar was Rhaegar he would’ve kidnapped NEd in place of Lyanna.
Joshua Clive Mantle has specifically stated he won’t be back.

Aegon the Conqueror,

I am aware of that. If you notice I said surprise guest star. Ie: Marion Cotillard lied her ass off that she was not playing Talia al Ghul in DKR. She said this in numerous interviews and yet…

But given that Cotillard is a big name playing a more widely known character perhaps it’s not the best example.

I’m pretty sure the surprise actor on the set that someone mentioned earlier was David Bradely (Walder Frey).

Aegon the Conqueror,

Okay here’s an example,

up until book 5, we all thought that Rhaegar’s son Aegon was killed by the Mountain. Nobody ever thought for a second that he might be alive. There was never even the slightest indication that he didn’t die so nobody bothered to second guess it. But when I found out that he really survived, my fucking jaw dropped and I was in complete shock. I never argue for the sake of arguing. And just because you can’t think of any conceivable way that Rhaegar survived, doesn’t mean that he didn’t. And if Rhaegar did survive, it would be brilliant because so many people watched him in full armor, get smashed in the chest. If someone told you that baby Aegon survived the sack of King’s Landing before you read book 5, you would probably think they were crazy as well.

Joshua Taylor,

Thank you, now I totally see Burn Gorman as Black Walder.

Aegon the Conqueror,

Lord Hoster died an old man in his bed, not in the middle of a battle. And Ned called his banners for what happened to his brother and father, that’s true. But the whole reason Brandon (who was known to be a hot-head) went to King’s Landing to kill Rhaegar for kidnapping Lyanna. Many years later, whenever Robert tried to vilify Rhaegar for what he did, Ned never felt the same as Robert. Why? Because when he finally found his sister, in a bed of blood, probably holding baby Jon snow, he probably then understood that the whole kidnapping thing was wrong. And in all of the battles I’ve read in this series, never not once has anyone EVER removed the helm of the person who was killed.

Macha,

GRRM said that about Rhaegar’s body, that true. But if Rhaegar is actually alive, there would be absolutely no way for GRRM to answer that fan’s question any other way with out giving too much away. If he simply said “Nobody know’s what happened to Rhaegar’s body” then people would obviously know that something is up. Also, if Rhaegar is Jaqen, Rhaegar Targaryen is dead so to speak. Just like Jaqen is “dead”.

Aegon the Conqueror,
Okay man, I’ll just say this:

Once again, this is only a theory of mine so there’s no need to get all bent out of shape over a discussion. If by the time the series is over and I’m wrong, then I will gladly admit it. If I’m right however, I expect a huuuuuuge apology from you and a few others on here haha. It’s nothing personal man, it’s just an idea that’s been brewing in my head for a little while now. No hard feelings.

Yeah come over and play ….
Everyone’s welcome … and you Josh !

Cary Storm,

Your welcome :-)
YvyB,

Maybe I will..maybe I will… :-)

Just today I was thinking what happened to Knurk.

I love this thread, thx Maegor. One other point is Jaqen’s attachment to Arya, if your theory holds some truth concerning he and Rhaegar , this might explain the emotional connection, afterall Arya looks like a younger Lyanna, while also possessing a similar personality.

Yes, very enjoyable thread!

Rygar:
We all know that Jaqen H’ghar is really Sammy’s brother and his sole purpose is to kill David Lee Roth so that Sammy can rejoin Van Halen.

You are so wrong ser, it was not David Lee Roth but Mick Jager.
Anyway I get your point, the above references were spelled out nicely.
Now we just need to move on to something a little less controversial.

I hear the beaches in Essaouiara Morrocco are just splendid this time of year…… :D

Watson,

Nice catch on that link!

I have heard most of the points discussed in the thread but it makes for good reading for sure! With GRRM you never quite “know” which way the evidence points until he reveals the final piece that solidifies everything. I lean towards Aegon being a Blackfyre or a Targ pretender of another sort, but there is evidence on both sides and I cannot commit myself to one side or the other at this point honestly.

I think we could very well encounter another Targ bastard, Targ pretender or legitimate Targ heir aside from Jon before the series is completed (if we haven’t met them already)…… I just don’t think that Jaqen is the most likely candidate.

Yet another theory that can only be proven to not be definitively false. Just because people can’t prove something false, doesn’t make it valid or true.

There isn’t a single shred of positive evidence for it. I’ve got another one: Jaqen’s previous assignment as a faceless man was Robert Baratheon.

There’s a million and one of these theories and 99% of them are not compelling; they are merely constructed to avoid a concrete denial. It’s like listening to a political debate.

Arkash,

Vrai,vrai et vrai.
Mon anglais est cent fois meilleur que ma grammaire française.

P.s.je suis québécoise XP

Rygar,

If you are still having problems email cabana.guy@gmail.com with your query, he’ll sort you out.

So… Anyone think we’ll be getting a teaser this Sunday? They did last year.

darquemode,

Re: Dontos. I think its like the Tickler wherein they give him a scene as a nod to the fans and then dispatch him soon after. In the series world it seems Dontos is an example of Sansa’s agency, her playing this game with Joffrey. So he served his purpose and that was it. Seems like they are going to make another character perform his role anyways. The end of season 2 confirms that.

Or yes you could be right as well. It just seems too stupid a mistake. At least IMHO.

Joshua Taylor:
Alan,

I get what your saying Alan, but we are just having fun. Is that a crime? Do you have to be so darn condescending?

How do you know what my tone of voice in my post is? And I suppose, as well, how am I supposed to know what you and Maegor’s tone of voice are as well?

Perhaps I was snippy, and for that I apologize to Maegor.

That said, perhaps you can explain to me why so many people — whether here or on Westeros — feel the need to come up with theories like these.

Let me explain. Martin leaves a lot of clues for things. He almost never comes out and reveals a mystery, but he foreshadows constantly and he gives a ton of hints on many, many things.

I’m not saying there’s only one rational theory for things. There may be a few. But the evidence points in some direction(s).

Yet every seems to enjoy positing new theories that have no basis in any evidence. They are things entirely based on the fact that it could technically be true or cannot be disproven (see: Daario is Jaqen H’ghar, commuting between the Citadel and Dany.).

They are omnipresent. They annoy the crap out of me because the authors universally defend them to the death with comments like “It’s my opinion so its valid.” Egad.

So I ask, why do people find doing this interesting? I suppose some small % come up with an idea and throw it out without thinking about it, but most come with a huge post and defend it to the death. Is it that fun supporting and arguing about something that doesn’t really make sense?

I’m asking honestly, b/c a TON of people apparently love doing it (if Westeros is any example) and I don’t get it. Another example: Valonqar really means “Father,” not “Little Brother” even though it’s clear in the text because well, I think the word “the” that preceeds it goes better with “father” than “little brother.” What?!

Alan,

Because it pisses certain people off…:-)

Seriously, we enjoy discussing the books and we love to speculate what may or not happen. I really can’t explain it any more than that. I could give you an an anthropological thesis on the subject but that would be overkill. It’s how we keep our passion for the next book and ASOIAF alive. Perhaps someday I will get married and have kids and maybe then I will no longer care to discern such triviality but for now, at this moment..it’s fun. You do realize that we are mostly geeks right?

As for not understanding it or ‘getting it’ I can’t understand or get people who still smoke cigarettes or watch reality tv or find 2 1/2 Men funny. I guess it’s like Nessie or Bigfoot, a mystery of the universe.

Oh and “egad”? Really? Are you Mr. Lodge losing it on Archie or something? Just kidding.

And regarding the latter part of your post, I don’t defend these arguments to the death. For me, right now it’s a theory. Until God aka GRRM says so, than that is all it is.

Joshua Taylor:
Alan,

Because it pisses certain people off…:-)

Seriously, we enjoy discussing the books and we love to speculate what may or not happen.I really can’t explain it any more than that. I could give you an an anthropological thesis on the subject but that would be overkill. It’s how we keep our passion for the next book and ASOIAF alive. Perhaps someday I will get married and have kids and maybe then I will no longer care to discern such triviality but for now, at this moment..it’s fun. You do realize that we are mostly geeks right?

As for not understanding it or ‘getting it’ I can’t understand or get people who still smoke cigarettes or watch reality tv or find 2 1/2 Men funny. I guess it’s like Nessie or Bigfoot, a mystery of the universe.

Oh and “egad”? Really? Are you Mr. Lodge losing it on Archie or something?Just kidding.

And regarding the latter part of your post, I don’t defend these arguments to the death. For me, right now it’s a theory. Until God aka GRRM says so, than that is all it is.

C’mon, I have a weird vocabulary. (And yes, I only use Egad in print — for some reason I like the word).

I LOVE discussing the books and the tv show. I find it fascinating. So I don’t not understand that (double negative! proof positive!).

What I don’t get is why so many theories have no basis in fact. There’s so much to talk about in the books that has evidence for it, so many thematic and character discussions to be had, that I don’t get the apparent need to present something different just to be different. I suppose I’m ascribing motivation there but…

For example, there’s a ton of arguments to be made and discussed about who the valonqar is, or the PtwP is, or who the three heads of the dragon are — and all differing and based on textual evidence from the books. Do we really need to even consider an argument that valonqar means something other than what there is textual evidence for?

I mean, in the question we discussed, isn’t there enough interesting about Jaqen H’gar (and what he’s doing in the Citadel) without making some connection with someone who died 17 years ago? When Martin signalled that Jaqen (or another FM) took Pate’s place in the Citadel, he used the exact same description that he used when Jaqen left Arya. He made it clear it was a faceless man. There’s zero evidence that Martin left that Jaqen and Rhaegar have any connection. At all. I guess I don’t see the point.

And to be honest, as someone who sees a constant lack of logic used in debate these days — where any debate is about winning, not actually coming to a logical conclusion, it does strike a nerve when the whole world acts like there’s something there.

I really do feel like I’m taking crazy pills at times. It’s not the topic; it’s the conclusion. I’m completely interested in what Jaqen is doing in Oldtown. I’m not the least bit interested in Rhaegar as Jaqen because it’s not true.

Alan,

I agree with you, and will take your comment from before as a rant and honest frustration. I see where you are coming from. I don’t necessarily agree with the negativity of it, but you seem to be dialing that down therefore I won’t comment further upon it.

In regard to legit speculation, I feel that Cersei and Jaime are in fact Aerys’ bastards. Despite the awesome irony of the situation there is textual evidence to support this assertion. What say you to that?

Joshua Taylor:
Alan,

In regard to legit speculation, I feel that Cersei and Jaime are in fact Aerys’ bastards.Despite the awesome irony of the situation there is textual evidence to support this assertion. What say you to that?

I only wish that Tywin would have lived to find out his only true heir is Tyrion

Joshua Taylor:
Alan,

I agree with you, and will take your comment from before as a rant and honest frustration. I see where you are coming from. I don’t necessarily agree with the negativity of it, but you seem to be dialing that down therefore I won’t comment further upon it.

In regard to legit speculation, I feel that Cersei and Jaime are in fact Aerys’ bastards.Despite the awesome irony of the situation there is textual evidence to support this assertion. What say you to that?

Well, I reserve the right to be negative as long as we’re all civil. :)

As for your second comment, I can’t decide what I think of that. There’s textual backing for Aerys’s interest in Joanna, for sure. I can’t decide whether that is a Red Herring or not; and if Aerys and Joanna did sleep together, might not it be Tyrion who is Aerys’ son? The mismatched eyes. Is dwarfism a possible result of inbreeding? And it might better explain Tywin’s hatred and disavowal. (or maybe Tywin jus thinks Tyrion is Aerys? Lastly, outside of the text and from a focus standpoint, it feels like Jon, Tyrion and Dany are your three main characters — and two so far are Targaryens. Three heads ha the dragon.

I know some folks take the first night comment and opportunity for Aerys to be the Twins’ parents as a sin that it only occurred then, but I ‘m not so sure. Was Tywin still hand when Ztyrion was conceived? I think so, but I’m not sure.

Well, I consider all that evidence. It’s circumstantial and not proof, so to speak, but it’s a theory based in textual and other evidence.

I do think we’ll hear more of Shiera Seastar, as she was a point of contention between Bloodraven and Bittersteel (or was it Daemon? I think Bittersteel). Since Bittersteel’s heirs and Bloodraven have entered the story and their war was so important to the era of Dunk of Egg, I doubt this is all we get of her.

In terms of the past is prologue element, I find those discussions interesting, but useless as predictors or verification of theories. Martin, like every writer, likes parallels, but I haven’t seen much of a pattern of binding himself strictly to it. It’s like the similarities to existing myths; there’s a lot of Norse myth in there, but I don’t think the Song ends in the same way.

The same with past is prologue; the bastards may be back, but I don’t think it’s going to be 1:1. Plus, where’s your Bloodraven analogue? Still Bloodraven?

On the Gerold Dayne thing, is the only evidence for Targdom there his looks and the “most dangerous man in Dorne” comment? I’m not sure I’m sold.

On the flip, I’m not sure if you are in the Aegon Targaryen or Aegon Blackfyre camp, but if you are in the former, have you heard a good justification for why the Golden Company would honor their contract in blood to put a Blackfyre on the Throne to put a legitimate Targaryen on the Throne?

This is a topic which is close to my heart…
Many thanks! Exactly where are your contact details though?