Pictures from Game of Thrones Season 4, Episode 10 “The Children”
By Lightbringer on in Media.

Pictures from the final episode of Game of Thrones Season 4, “The Children,” have been released. The batch includes new looks at Meera, Bran and Hodor in the North, Arya and The Hound, and Daenerys in her throne room. This is a just a small taste of what we can expect to see in four short days, here’s to a grand finale!

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Arya, The Children


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279 Comments

  1. J
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    Stannis :(

  2. GeekFurious
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

    Dany looking down at the bones of the children.

  3. JTargs
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    Photoshopped Brienne’s armour out LOL

  4. The Cook of House Nightwatch
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    Nice job not revealing much for next episode HBO. I like.

    Waits for complainers to scream, No this, no that.

  5. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    I see Strong Belwas!!

    Aw nuts.

  6. Luka Nieto Garay
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

    JTargs,

    You’re kidding, right? In case you don’t know, promo shots are not directly taken from the actual episode; they were taken with a camera, on set. So of course it doesn’t match the TV promo, with Brienne’s armor.

  7. chamush
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    Having all these stories that need closure in just 1 episode is a crime.

    Hopefully we dont get any quick deaths like oberyn and could spend some more time with any characters who are gonna die…

  8. JJT
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

    GeekFurious,

    Nope, that’s not the pyramid. It’s the underground chamber where she chains her dragons.

  9. Leo
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

    JJT,

    It’s the underground pyramid chamber.

  10. craigCAW
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

    Stannis WILL be in this episode, the scene was in the first trailer

  11. 3 Finger Nobb
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

    I love Brienne, but she better not lay a tooth on The Hound’s good ear.

  12. Turri
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    Bran’s come all the way North to chew bubble gum and kick ass and he’s all out of bubble gum.

  13. Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss)
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    Brienne running into The Hound and Arya could kill three birds (assassinate three POV book characters) with one stone (nonsensical scene). It looks like this season will not have even one episode that is not filled with boneheaded deviations. D&D are raping ASOIaF just like Drogo raped Dany and Jaime raped Cersei. Remember those two rape scenes in the best selling novels? Yeah, me neither. Thanks for all the needless changes that ruin POV characters and future material. Cue the easily amused show fans and their angry responses. I’ll probably get plenty of hateful responses from all you Talisa, Ros and Karl fans out there. I shouldn’t complain too much though, at least D&D have given us lots of Sam/Gilly and Grey Worm/Missandei. I mean, who would want to see Coldhands when you can listen to Missandei wonder if Grey Worm has any of his parts left instead?

  14. The Cook of House Nightwatch
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    I hope the Cook with the big ass cleaver makes a cameo next episode.

  15. King Stannis
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

    Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss):
    Brienne running into The Hound and Arya could kill three birds (assassinate three POV book characters) with one stone (nonsensical scene). It looks like this season will not have even one episode that is not filled with boneheaded deviations. D&D are raping ASOIaF just like Drogo raped Dany and Jaime raped Cersei. Remember those two rape scenes in the best selling novels? Yeah, me neither. Thanks for all the needless changes that ruin POV characters and future material. Cue the easily amused show fans and their angry responses. I’ll probably get plenty of hateful responses from all you Talisa, Ros and Karl fans out there. I shouldn’t complain too much though, at least D&D have given us lots of Sam/Gilly and Grey Worm/Missandei. I mean, who would want to see Coldhands when you can listen to Missandei wonder if Grey Worm has any of his parts left instead?

    Quit your overreacting, moaning, Robyn Arryn of a mouth and just wait until the episode airs. You whiners come here day in and day out always assuming shit and crying. “OMG THEY GONNA KILL GILLY, D&D ARE FUCKING IT UP”

    Just wait until it airs before you start panicking like a whore on Tuesday night.

  16. GoT
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

    Best watching it without expecting Lady Stoneheart to appear. Even it they don’t show her, there’ll be like 5 big scenes to make the episode amazing.

  17. Hodor and the Moondoors
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

    OMG I’m so ready HURRY UP AND GET HERE SUNDAY

  18. Nerd
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

    OMG that pimple on Arya’s hand was not in the books! It changes everything! It completely ruins her character! Im so done with this show. D&D can rot in hell.

  19. Sunfyre
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss),

    Why do you subject yourself to such torture? Are you a masochist? I genuinely feel bad for fans like you. Does the pain ever stop? When you dream do you see a totally different Game of Thrones, the Westeros.org version perhaps?

  20. Patty
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    JJT:
    GeekFurious,

    Nope, that’s not the pyramid. It’s the underground chamber where she chains her dragons.

    You could be right.

  21. Cokeri
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

    No ls and episode recieves 1 from me on imdb. Join me purists, lets show D&D they cant change things as they like.

  22. Patty
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    Nerd:
    OMG that pimple on Arya’s hand was not in the books! It changes everything! It completely ruins her character! Im so done with this show. D&D can rot in hell.

    This made me laugh so hard cause I so noticed that too!!

  23. dragon tammer
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

    GoT,

    i really want her to appear! it’s the epilogue, she has to!
    pleaaaaase?

  24. Stacey
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

    Arya/Maisie looks so gorgeous and majestic in that shot of her riding. She’s growing into such a beautiful young woman. Can’t wait for her scenes this week.

  25. JAMO
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

    It’s called “The Children” because the appearance of the children of the forest??

  26. Our Blades Are Sharp
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

    Cant believe in 4 days we start our long watch again! This season has flown by

  27. Our Blades Are Sharp
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

    JAMO:
    It’s called “The Children” because the appearance of the children of the forest??

    Confirmed. Yes we will see them

  28. Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss)
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    The army of easily amused has attacked!! I apologize! Talisa is awesome. Dany losing her dragons made perfect sense. Bran and the Reeds getting captured by a band of drunk rapists at Craster’s Keep was great writing. There should be a Grey Worm and Missandei spin-off show. I yield! I yield! Please no more.

  29. Our Blades Are Sharp
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

    dragon tammer,

    Meh id rather she not

  30. Jake
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    chamush:
    Having all these stories that need closure in just 1 episode is a crime.

    Hopefully we dont get any quick deaths like oberyn and could spend some more time with any characters who are gonna die…

    Seriously! If there is one episode that needs to be 2 hours long, or at the least 90 minutes, it’s this upcoming finale. I’m really excited, can’t wait for Sunday! And to top it off, the Rogues anthology comes out on Tuesday, sweet.

  31. King Stannis
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

    Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss),

    Feel better now? Did you let it off your chest. Would you like a bottle of milk to suck on or Mommy?

  32. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

    Pick one screenname and go with it, people.

  33. Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss)
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

    Our Blades Are Sharp,

    I actually love the show for the most part but I love it less with each senseless deviation from the books. This does not imply that the books are perfect. However, the books are logical and cohesive where the show can be wildly illogical and inconsistent by contrast. As viewership climbs it seems the majority (the easy to please mass television audience) is being accommodated and the minority (the astute and observant fans and book readers) are being neglected.

  34. Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss)
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    King Stannis,

    I told you I yielded great leader of the easily amused. Kindly go back to watching your ‘best of Talisa’ youtube clips. Good day.

  35. Josla
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

    Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss):
    Our Blades Are Sharp,
    Lol So funny… wait, you serious?

    I actually love the show for the most part but I love it less with each senseless deviation from the books. This does not imply that the books are perfect. However, the books are logical and cohesive where the show can be wildly illogical and inconsistent by contrast. As viewership climbs it seems the majority (the easy to please mass television audience) is being accommodated and the minority (the astute and observant fans and book readers) are being neglected.

  36. Enfield
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    I think I’ll go on “internet silence” until Sunday. Too many trolls and fevered egos around right now in various sites. Blind negativity gets old very fast.

  37. LordVega
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

    Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss),

    I can’t believe I’m actually responding to your rant but, for the record, talisa was George’s idea. Wtf makes you think he doesn’t have a hand in any of these changes? And if it wasn’t for d&d I wouldn’t even know about these books (of which I’m on my 4th re-read) and you’d have less people to show off to on the internet.

  38. The smartest person
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

    Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss),

    It’s not enough to simply not like something and stop watching it!

    I must go online and tell everyone how stupid they are if they like it!

    I AM THE SMARTEST!

    I AM THE ONLY TRUE FAN!

    ONLY I UNDERSTAND WHAT GRRM TRULY INTENDED!

    HBO MUST FIRE D&D RIGHT NOW AND HIRE ME!

    MY ENTIRE SENSE OF SELF WORTH DEPENDS ON EVERYONE KNOWING MY OPINIONS ARE CLEVER AND INSIGHTFUL AND THEIRS ARE STUPID!

  39. LordVega
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 11:08 pm | Permalink

    Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss),

    Oh and one more thing, blame your buddy George who I’m sure you worship for all the filler and stop blaming the show runners, if he’d finish the series they wouldn’t need to stretch things out so much. Instead he found nothing wrong with writing a travel guide to the riverlands for the last 2 books and expected Hbo to film it. They stretch the good stuff to far too help him catch up and keep book spoilers from people like you and the never satisfied Elio and Linda from complaining and all you do is find something to complain about on the show. Stop watching if it’s so unbearable.

  40. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

    Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss),

    Please don’t compare your anticipation that your purist whims won’t be fulfilled to rape. That is so gross and offensive.

    You sound like one of those right wing whack jobs who compare Obama issuing a few executive orders to the holocaust.

    Grow up and get over yourself.

  41. GeekFurious
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 11:26 pm | Permalink

    Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss):
    The army of easily amused has attacked!! I apologize! Talisa is awesome. Dany losing her dragons made perfect sense. Bran and the Reeds getting captured by a band of drunk rapists at Craster’s Keep was great writing. There should be a Grey Worm and Missandei spin-off show. I yield! I yield! Please no more.

    Wahhhhhhhhh!!!! Fuckin’ narcissist.

  42. A flayed man none
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 11:41 pm | Permalink

    Obvious troll is obvious.

  43. King Stannis
    Posted June 11, 2014 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

    I love the books and the show separately for what they are. I can finish my story of ASOS faster than waiting every week for one hour and after 10hrs of viewing I wait again for a full year to continue the story. That tells me that the show I’m watching does not have to be exactly like the book. There’s no time, budget for it. I don’t get how purist don’t understand that. GRRM has stated that plenty of times.
    It is not about me being easily amused, but being appreciative of the work D&D has created and for the most part bringing it to life.

    Sure it will be nice if every character gets the attention they have in the book but that won’t happen ever even if we reboot 20x. There’s no time and money and this is a show which means it is important to give an audience some entertainment and not treat all your cast as just background for Danny (Worm and Missaindei)

    Honestly I’m surprised this show is huge and the credit does not all go towards GRRM but everybody involve on the project. You can tell they are all dedicated which is why it delivers. I am trilled as a fan watching, so minor changes does not bother me. I have other things to worry about in life than complain about a story on a book I can easily pick up and read.

  44. Eddard Stark II
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 12:02 am | Permalink

    Turri,

    And legs :(

  45. Lady
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 12:44 am | Permalink

    As long we’re not shut out on the nudity twice in a row we’ll all be fine…thanks Grey Worm for bringing us Missandei!

  46. BGAP
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 12:47 am | Permalink

    Not even a crumb of a hint for LS. Seriously giving up on it. I was expecting the LS reveal to be the last scene of LAST season.

  47. Cash
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 1:11 am | Permalink

    BGAP:
    Not even a crumb of a hint for LS. Seriously giving up on it. I was expecting the LS reveal to be the last scene of LAST season.

    There shouldn’t be a hint… the more surprise the better.

    I’ll also never understand why people wanted Stoneheart in S3E10, only a single episode after her death. Why rush ASOS like that when it goes for 2 seasons? Doesn’t anybody think it’s better that she’s had time to awaken and harbor some fury?

    Either way it’s overly pessimistic to think a huge character is cut just because you haven’t heard hints about it. I think it’s a definite reveal for sometime in this last episode because it’s really central to the plot.

  48. Tatters
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 1:29 am | Permalink

    Cokeri,

    Sounds like real fun. Your effort is too futile though. I bet the finale will end up with a 10 or 9.9

  49. BGAP
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 1:30 am | Permalink

    Cash,

    I agree. If cut, the show would be missing one of the best ‘holy shit’ moments of the ASOIAF. My concern is that it may not be until NEXT season. I own it’s my own impatience for the reveal, and in retrospect, it’s better last season didn’t end with it.

  50. Tatters
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 1:33 am | Permalink

    Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss),

    Yeah, you said it buddy, Missandei is awesome. Colddhands is a one note corpse.

  51. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 1:55 am | Permalink

    Long live Coldhands!

    Does anyone think the pic of Arya is her approaching Saltpans…alone?

    I noticed the pimple too…and it does change things, especially if it is on her left hand.

  52. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 2:09 am | Permalink

    Cash,

    Is she central to the plot next season, though? Jaime is going to Dorne. It would be cruel to introduce LS this season and have her do nothing next season. Which is why it may make some sense to save her for the final scene of next season.

  53. Wrath of the Gods
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 2:13 am | Permalink

    I’m by no means a purist. I never bitched about, say, Renlys peach. There are some slight disappointments though, like the show not properly fleshing out any of the propechecies of ASOIAF other than a few mentions of Stannis being Azor Ahai reborn. Ned’s promise, Robb’s will, Daenarys visions, the bridge of ships and the chain on the Blackwater, wolf dreams other than Brans… I got over all of those being cut because the show is still damn good no matter what. Even Grenn subbing in for Noye felt right.

    HOWEVER, with that said, I would be extremely upset if LS was not in the show. Its the ultimate moment of hope, and revenge, and exactly what fans of the show need after everyone dying left and right.

    Don’t fix what’s not broken.

  54. SherlockMescalinic
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 2:30 am | Permalink

    EHI! i don’t know if anyone posted such a theory here before, but…

    you folks think there’s a possibility that AFTER Tyrion shot the crossbow and leave, a nice bald guy shows up with a group of CHILDREN, finishing the job in a Kevan-like scene that i’m quite sure we wouldn’t see otherwise?

    CLUES

    1. We’ve seen a lot of LF great scheme this year, pretty much nothing from Varys side
    2. Titles in the show often have multiple meanings
    3. My nick probably means i’m good at deduction

  55. AY
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 2:37 am | Permalink

    Cash,

    Amen

  56. Ozymandias
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 2:40 am | Permalink

    I really hope Lady Stoneheart is in not because I want her more than everything but because the vast majority will hate the episode if not, and that would be the real disappointment. I mean think about it, if a perfect episode of TV is “ruined” just because of her that would be such a hugeeeeee shame.

    I’m really worried at this point. Everyone will be super euphoric or it will be the complete opposite judging by the comments I saw in westeros.org or others forums or Youtube etc…

    Please D&D, please don’t remove her for the love of God.

  57. StarkyZG
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 2:54 am | Permalink

    My 2 cents….

    1. the Dany pic – isn’t there a little too much sunshine for the underground chamber?

    2. We will definitely see LS. In book 3 it comes as a complete shock at the end of the book because so much happens between the RW and the epilogue that you completely forget about the dead Starks. and also, that’s why there have been no hints. no hints in the book either. except for the old woman’s dreams she tells Arya about, but that’s even before the RW and damned if anybody was able to figure those out. if LS were introduced in 3×10, it would have been too soon. this way it will feel more like it did in book 3

    3. personally, I hope Brienne doesn’t encounter LS yet. I wish she were revelaed in a similar way as in book 3 (if not identical) and I’d leave the Brienne/LS scene for the end of ep 3 or 4 of season 5. no reason to kill two birds with one stone when both brienne and jaime have so little to do in season 5. Brienne’s mission in the second half of season 5 could be tracking Jaime in order to bring him to LS.

  58. Ozymandias
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:04 am | Permalink

    Oh and BTW, “Oathkeeper” is not for Lady Stoneheart because The Hound had a similar theme song in Blackwater when he was facing Bronn (before the battle). So you can rule out that possibility, it will be use for Brienne vs The Hound.

    Maybe “The Children” ? Or perhaps “Dark Wings, Dark Words” from last season since it wasn’t used.

  59. Dutch maester
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:05 am | Permalink

    Ozymandias,

    This exactly. I’m afraid I’ll actually feel the same way!

  60. Lollius Palicanus
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:18 am | Permalink

    We would get major clues in the episode 9 recap thing, which hasn’t been posted just yet. Which is quite odd, but could go either way.

  61. Margus Toots
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:28 am | Permalink

    JAMO,

    They have already casted some children of forest to this and also to next season..

  62. King of the Ashes
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:43 am | Permalink

    Margus Toots,

    thanks for the spoiler…….

    (sarcasm)

  63. Sister Wrister
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:44 am | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Is Jaime goin to Dorne confirmed?

  64. jentario
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:49 am | Permalink

    King of the Ashes,

    Get out of here till the finale airs. People are going crazy in the comment sections and often forget the spoiler tags.

  65. Annara Snow
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 4:52 am | Permalink

    LordVega:
    Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss),

    I can’t believe I’m actually responding to your rant but, for the record, talisa was George’s idea. Wtf makes you think he doesn’t have a hand in any of these changes? And if it wasn’t for d&d I wouldn’t even know about these books (of which I’m on my 4th re-read) and you’d have less people to show off to on the internet.

    Err, no. That couldn’t be further from the truth. The only idea regarding Talisa that was Georges was that she should have a different name from the book character, since they had made her so different from the book character. You seriously thought that this is the problem people have with Talisa, that she’s not called Jeyne We sterling?!

  66. Annara Snow
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 4:57 am | Permalink

    Screw Android and it’s stupid spelling changes. Yes, I was talking about a Frenchman called Georges, and “we sterling” is a phrase that totally makes sense. *sigh* I don’t see the edit function on this site when I’m accessing it from my phone.

  67. Tatters
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 5:06 am | Permalink

    Wrath of the Gods,

    Ls is not hopeful or awesome by any means. She is biggest bitch since Joffrey. And unsullied are going to be frightened not pleased. Which is the point of Ls. She is no good.

  68. Sir Denmark
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 5:07 am | Permalink

    What if they change the book story line, so we dont meet Lady Stoneheart?
    In AFFC brienne was killed (maybe) by Lady Stoneheart and the BWB, but what if they change so Pod and Brienne meet up with the hound and Arya ? Both couple are near the Eyrie. What if they cut out lady stoneheart and do a battle between The hound and Briene instead.
    Sorry For bad enligsh.

  69. Annara Snow
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 5:19 am | Permalink

    Sir Denmark:
    What if they change the book story line, so we dont meet Lady Stoneheart?
    In AFFC brienne was killed (maybe) by Lady Stoneheart and the BWB, but what if they change so Pod and Brienne meet up with the hound and Arya ? Both couple are near the Eyrie. What if they cut out lady stoneheart and do a battle between The hound and Briene instead.
    Sorry For bad enligsh.

    I guess you haven’t read ADWD?

  70. Tar Kidho
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 5:27 am | Permalink

    OT: anybody else think that those non-GOT related pop-up questions forced upon us by Fansided are pretty annoying? Why are there no GOT-related ones instead?

  71. Chickenduck
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 5:40 am | Permalink

    I mostly want LS in the finale because I don’t want to hear the screaming from fans if it doesn’t happen :)

    Remember how we all talked ourselves into being sure that it’d happen end of last season, based on a few vague “bongs” in the soundtrack, and then the internet went nuts when we realised it wasn’t going to eventuate?

    So we’ll wait and see. I don’t mind either way (I am generally more curious/happy be surprised about adaptation choices than desperate to see it how I imagined). And I’m way more excited about Bran and Bloodraven in this episode anyway.

  72. oracle86
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 5:51 am | Permalink

    ICYMI, Game of Thrones submitted Episode 10 for Best Prosthetic Makeup for the Emmys. So I am pretty sure that “LS” will make an appearance in the episode at the end.

  73. JamesL
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 5:58 am | Permalink

    Lady Stoneheart is a shit character and should be cut. It will not get a positive reaction, it will be considered a jumping the shark moment by many of the unsullied just like the shadowbirth in season 2. All this season people have been so sure that she will be in the finale and I’ve never believed it, I just don’t see such a ridiculous and cheesy character being included in the TV show. The fact that so many are so confident that she will show up has me almost looking forward to all the nerd tears if she gets cut. Please tell me I’m not alone in my strong dislike for this character, it seems like everybody is so desperate to see this character on the show. Am I the only one who wants her to be cut?

  74. JamesL
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 6:04 am | Permalink

    I’m more worried about them ruining the Tyrion/Tywin moment by adding some type of fart noise or plop sound after Tyrion kills Tywin on the toilet. Please don’t do that D&D. I know it happens in the book but it will make the scene comical and the scene should not be comical.

  75. Josla
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 6:19 am | Permalink

    JamesL:
    Lady Stoneheart is a shit character and should be cut.It will not get a positive reaction, it will be considered a jumping the shark moment by many of the unsullied just like the shadowbirth in season 2. All this season people have been so sure that she will be in the finale and I’ve never believed it, I just don’t see such a ridiculous and cheesy character being included in the TV show.The fact that so many are so confident that she will show up has me almost looking forward to all the nerd tears if she gets cut.Please tell me I’m not alone in my strong dislike for this character, it seems like everybody is so desperate to see this character on the show.Am I the only one who wants her to be cut?

    JamesL,

    I want to see her in the adaptation. I believe she will be important in the future.

  76. Arya's Nose
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 6:24 am | Permalink

    Ellie Kendrick is so pretty. Sorry to post something vaguely positive on the Internet, but I’ve never been one to tow the party line, so…

  77. Lyn
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 6:38 am | Permalink

    Arya’s Nose,

    Agreed, she’s beautiful.

  78. Troublesome Birdsong
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 6:50 am | Permalink

    SherlockMescalinic: 2. Titles in the show often have multiple meanings


    The dragons are Dany’s children. Tyrion, Jaime and Cersei are Tywin’s children. Not to mention the association between Lady Stoneheart’s vengeance and her children. As well as the Children of the Forest.

    I think those are more likely as alternate meanings, than what you’re suggesting.

  79. Jeff
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    JamesL: character and should be cut.It will not get a positive reaction, it will be considered a jumping the shark moment by many of the unsullied just like the shadowbirth in season 2. All

    Maybe I’m wrong, but hasn’t GRRM said in several interviews that he felt LS was a mistake, and wishes he hadn’t written her? Personally I feel including her cheapens Cat’s powerful Red Wedding scenes.

    It’s funny because, like one of the posters said, I was one of the ones listening to the ‘bongs’ in the soundtrack last year and had convinced myself that she was going to be there, and was very disappointed when she wasn’t (even though I had always disliked her being in the book). This time I’ve learned my lesson and I’m not going in expecting anything one way or the other, so whether she’s in the show or not, I no longer care.

  80. JamesL
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    oracle86,

    They also released very detailed spoiler filled information about what the prosthetic make up was used for in the episode and none of it implied Lady Stoneheart would be showing up.

  81. jentario
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    JamesL,

    None of it implied Tyrion was showing up either, and he is.

    To sum it up, we don’t know shit. It might happen, it might not. We’ll have to wait for the recap (if they don’t decide to hold it back this time).

  82. harry potter
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 7:12 am | Permalink

    Why is Emilia Clarke’s arm so hairy

  83. jentario
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    harry potter,

    Because she’s a human being. Put anyone’s skin against the light and you’ll see a bunch of previously invisible hair.

  84. Troublesome Birdsong
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Cash: There shouldn’t be a hint… the more surprise the better.

    I’ll also never understand why people wanted Stoneheart in S3E10, only a single episode after her death. Why rush ASOS like that when it goes for 2 seasons? Doesn’t anybody think it’s better that she’s had time to awaken and harbor some fury?

    I daresay people thought they would see her in the season 3 finale, because they were expecting to specifically see Beric resurrect her.
    It says in the books that her body is only in the river for 3 days after the Red Wedding, (otherwise she would be in a lot worse shape), so too much time would have passed if they didn’t show it in 3×10 (unless it was shown in the 4×01 maybe). It’s not that people wanted to rush through ASOS material, it’s that they expected to see a scene that was only alluded to in the book, because being TV, the effect of showing it would have made more sense than just retrospectively explaining it.
    Keep in mind that they introduced Beric Dondarrion last season as a seemingly important tertiary/secondary character, but then we never saw him again after 3×07.
    Assuming they haven’t changed things, he’s dead now. We won’t see him again. And by not showing the resurrection, we didn’t get any closure for his character. That’s why people assumed we’d see her last season.
    I would have fully expected that we’d see Balon’s death as well, for the same reason, even though we only hear about it in the books, because it just makes more sense to show events on TV than have it explained afterward.

  85. PercentageMescalinic
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Troublesome Birdsong:
    The dragons are Dany’s children. Tyrion, Jaime and Cersei are Tywin’s children. Not to mention the association between Lady Stoneheart’s vengeance and her children. As well as the Children of the Forest.

    I think those are more likely as alternate meanings, than what you’re suggesting.

    of course, of course :)
    there’s just this 1% of myself that still can see that happen.
    (btw, i don’t think it’d be a wonderful deviation nor an awful deviation. just a different choice. but probably there won’t be any time to add a thing like that anyway)

  86. King of the Ashes
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    harry potter:
    Why is Emilia Clarke’s arm so hairy

    jentario:
    harry potter,

    Because she’s a human being. Put anyone’s skin against the light and you’ll see a bunch of previously invisible hair.

    There’s also hair flowing from her head thats behind her arm. could have a bit to do with it…. kinda nitpick tbh.

  87. TorbofThrones
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    LS is happening, no doubt. This is how it’s been everytime. We’ve worried that it won’t happen, but it always happens. That scene is a major part of the storyline, and there’s no way they would cut it. That’s just it. Worst case scenario they postpone it, and there’s little chance of that, the epilogues have always been in ep 10 so far.

  88. Annara Snow
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    Troublesome Birdsong: I daresay people thought they would see her in the season 3 finale,because they were expecting to specifically see Beric resurrect her.
    It says in the books that her body is only in the river for 3 days after the Red Wedding, (otherwise she would be in a lot worse shape), so too much time would have passed if they didn’t show it in 3×10 (unless it was shown in the 4×01 maybe). It’s not that people wanted to rush through ASOS material, it’s that they expected to see a scene that was only alluded to in the book, because being TV, the effect of showing it would have made more sense than just retrospectively explaining it.
    Keep in mind that they introduced Beric Dondarrion last season as a seemingly important tertiary/secondary character, but then we never saw him again after 3×07.
    Assuming they haven’t changed things, he’s dead now. We won’t see him again. And by not showing the resurrection, we didn’t get any closure for his character. That’s why people assumed we’d see her last season.
    I would have fully expected that we’d see Balon’s death as well, for the same reason, even though we only hear about it in the books, because it just makes more sense to show events on TV than have it explained afterward.

    Showing Cat’s resurrection wouldn’t make sense though, because it would spoil the surprise and shock of Lady Stoneheart. Which is, no doubt, why GRRM didn’t show it in the book, either.

  89. Annara Snow
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    JamesL:
    Lady Stoneheart is a shit character and should be cut.It will not get a positive reaction, it will be considered a jumping the shark moment by many of the unsullied just like the shadowbirth in season 2. All this season people have been so sure that she will be in the finale and I’ve never believed it, I just don’t see such a ridiculous and cheesy character being included in the TV show.The fact that so many are so confident that she will show up has me almost looking forward to all the nerd tears if she gets cut.Please tell me I’m not alone in my strong dislike for this character, it seems like everybody is so desperate to see this character on the show.Am I the only one who wants her to be cut?

    “Boo hoo, I’ve only just realized I’ve been watching/reading a fantasy series for years now! What is this crap! I totally thought it was a historical/political series with no supernatural elements! I mean, yes, the first season/book ended with dragons getting hatched from fossil eggs by a woman who walked into the fire and didn’t get burnt, and the first scene in the entire series featured people being killed by ice monsters… but that’s different, those are totally not supernatural or magical, they’re an everyday occurrence, just like vampires or werewolves!”

  90. Ionuts
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    SherlockMescalinic,

    Not necessarily. IMO, it would suck big time if D&D would rob the viewers (unsullied and especially sullied) the pleasure of seeing Tyrion doing his part entirely. And D&D know that and they won’t mess with that part of the story. The title could refer to the Stark kids (Arya and Bran, who come to the end of a journey) and the dragons (Daenerys’ “children”) besides referring to the Children of the Forest. My guess is dragons+children of the forest… or even the Lannister (Tywin’s children) like someone previously mentioned.

  91. woodslincoln
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss),

    Leave Karl out of this. As far as the rape scenes go, at least the shows don’t make you picture a 14 year old taking it from some giant barbarian horse war lord, shes like 18 in the show. Also Karl was representing the character Dirk from the books, instead of one dirk he had two.

  92. Ionuts
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    JamesL,

    yes, you are, pretty much…

  93. Unbowed Unbent Unhodor
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    A must watch! a mix of the greatest things
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgqUI6e1T5E

  94. Ionuts
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    Annara Snow,

    oracle86,

    or the White Raven, or someone burnt by dragon fire….don’t get me wrong…I can only hope it refers to LS.

  95. JamesL
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 8:37 am | Permalink

    Annara Snow,

    I don’t dislike Lady Stoneheart because I have issues with the supernatural elements of the story, I don’t like Lady Stoneheart because I think resurrecting Cat as a vengeful zombie is really fucking stupid. But besides that I love the supernatural elements and am still pissed they cut Coldhands and can’t wait to see Bloodraven and the Children of the Forrest.

  96. Troublesome Birdsong
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    Annara Snow: Showing Cat’s resurrection wouldn’t make sense though, because it would spoil the surprise and shock of Lady Stoneheart. Which is, no doubt, why GRRM didn’t show it in the book, either.

    Would it spoil the surprise or would it just move it to an earlier point? What about Arstan Whitebeard turning out to be Barristan Selmy? Did the show spoil that surprise?
    Surely resurrection is pretty surprising, if handled correctly. Especially if it happened in 4×01, after the hiatus, once viewers had already spent 10 months assuming she was gone.
    It works in the books, because it’s a book. The chapters are POV, so we don’t see certain events, because there’s no character for us to see it through, and that’s fine.
    But as people keep pointing out – the show is not the books, mainly because it’s a different medium. The first rule of visual performance is wherever you can ‘show, don’t tell’. The beauty of the show is that now they don’t have to stick to the POVs from the books. We can see conversations between Margaery and Olenna, Renly and Loras, Robb and Talisa, rather than just hearing about them secondhand.

    JamesL: I don’t dislike Lady Stoneheart because I have issues with the supernatural elements of the story, I don’t like Lady Stoneheart because I think resurrecting Cat as a vengeful zombie is really fucking stupid.

    The story is full of redemptive arcs with ‘bad guys’ turning into ‘good guys’. I always saw the rise of Lady Stoneheart as the best option to show a ‘good guy’ become a ‘bad guy’ for fairly legitimate reasons, but also as a physical depiction of the dangers of vengeance. Calling her a zombie is a bit much, just because her body is ravaged now. Was Beric a zombie? She doesn’t eat people, she doesn’t have super strength or anything, she still feels pains, you can kill her again in any conventional manner. The point is that she’s lost everything she loves and has embraced revenge as her motivation, not that she can’t talk properly and looks like a corpse.

  97. Ramsayreek
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    Am I the only one who is hoping to gods they DON’T include LS?. I don’t know how to put it exactly, as there is supernatural and magic elements throughout the story that don’t bother me at all, but the character of LS always bothered me, and I feel the majority of unsullied show-watchers will feel this way too. I’m most surprised that so many book-readers are focusing on LS so much and have been talking about it all season (and even last season). At this point in the book series she is really not big of a character so I’m having a hard time understanding why over half of the comments are dedicated to hoping she is in it, when there is so much more important and epic stuff that is going to happen.

  98. Turncloak
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    Ramsayreek,

    Because LS is the most shocking and fist pumping moment of ASOS

  99. Josla
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    Ramsayreek,

    Because LS is the most shocking and fist pumping moment of ASOS

    Exactly

  100. Blind Beth
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    JamesL,

    I don’t think she’s a “good” character in the books. She isn’t nice or hopeful, she represents the worst extremes of mindless revenge. Part of me is hoping she’ll get cut because her interaction with Brienne would be so hard to watch. I remember yelling at my iPod as Roy Dotrice read that scene to me, and I was on a jogging path with other people around so I got some weird looks, but anyway…

    Most of me, however, does still want her included in the story, not for “fuck yeah!” revenge on the Freys but because the very terrible dark place that her character goes to will provide such meaty storytelling. I don’t know how important she’ll be in future books, but even if she gets un-resurrected in the first chapter of WoW her thematic impact on the story is still huge.

  101. the other guy
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    To me, there only has been 2 real disappointments so far in the show.
    The battle at the Fist, and Coldhands being cut.
    Other stuff that people usually dislike, for exemple the relationship between Jon and Qhorin Halfhand in season 2, or the HotU, was half-assed, but at least they tried so I don’t really blame them; considering the scale of the show they can’t get everything 100% right.
    However if LS is cut, a lot of people will be very disappointed, and rightly so.
    There’s a reason the ending of AsoS is what it is. It works extremely well as an ending, simply because it is so unexpected and shocking. I mean, you get through the rollercoaster that is the last 200 pages of the book, and you think nothing can surprise you anymore. Then it happens. This is the strongest ending/cliffhanger you can end a season of GoT on. Nothing, in the books that are currently out, can be compared to the LS reveal in terms of shock and surprise. Even if she doesn’t have a major role going forward in the books (which is very unlikely to me, regarding what’s currently happening in the books and the major character she will meet soon), she needs to be in.

    Prepare for a lot of (deserved) backlash coming from book fans if ‘s not in, to the point where a lot of unsullied will get spoiled.
    If she’s in, this will be the best GoT episode ever to this day, without a doubt.

  102. Josla
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    To me it was also about having Catelyn back, after her (and Rob’s) emotional demise.

  103. ramsayreek
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    Hmmm I’m leaning to that being sarcasm. I hope you don’t think LS was more shocking then the RW? Stannis showing up? Tywin’s death? Oberyn’s crunch? Bloodraven & the children? Mainly though, I do not like that her existence for the fact that it diminishes the intensity of the red wedding. The entire Beric-resurrection plot (which is part of LS plot) was confusing and disliked by many unsullied. I think they will feel similar with LS.

    And how is this fist pumping worthy? It’s incredibly sad that she is just the shell of the woman she was, and is a one-note character hell-bent on revenge, but that revenge is being directed toward characters we love; pod, brienne, jamie (well, who knows). Yes, she wants to kill all freys, and more power to her for that, but we SEE her also take that revenge out on some of our fav characters too. So I do not understand the love for her.

  104. arden
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss),

    You really cannot criticize this show at all on this website man. I think people are just thankful that they can see Tyrion, Dany and Arya and they don’t take time to actually think about what is playing out on screen.

    - Wildlings are camped 20 yards outside Castle Black yet no one on top of the wall can see their fire.

    - Gilly is a faceless man and can change faces to get through the Wildling camp unnoticed.

    - The Night Watch is completely taken unaware from the attack from the south even though it’s been building up for 8 episodes. They just got word last episode that Molestown has literally been destroyed and they’ve left the defenses of Castle Black to Sam, Pyp and some stewards.

    - I realise that the NW has gone “all in” to defend against the Wildlings NORTH of the Wall.. Why is there no one to defend the gate and why is this a last effort move. Everyone in NW knows that Wildlings are north and south of them but they finally set up their tunnel defense after Mammoths and shit are already at the gate. This is comical

    - Finally probably the most confusing one. Mance would’ve won the war if he sent 3 giants to the wall instead of 2 it’s not like Jon and Co were trying to stop the Giant from opening the door!! Instead of letting the door fall after opening it the other giant would’ve held the door open allowing wildlings to flood the gates and the war would’ve been over!

    There is absolutely no reason the NW should have been taken by surprise this battle has been getting set up for 8 episodes. It’s comical.

  105. Fat 'n' Balda
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    guys. it’s a tv show.

  106. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    JamesL: They also released very detailed spoiler filled information about what the prosthetic make up was used for in the episode and none of it implied Lady Stoneheart would be showing up.

    Except the makeup for LS wouldn’t necessarily be prosthetic. Scars aren’t in the prosthetics category, that’s regular makeup. There’s also the possibility that they did do a more elaborate visible slashed-neck mess that would be a prosthetic, but they wisely chose not to put it in the writeup. They’re not required to. Basically the Emmy stuff doesn’t tell us anything about that question.

  107. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 9:26 am | Permalink

    Fat ‘n’ Balda:
    guys. it’s a tv show.

    Yes. And they’re at a website designed to discuss that TV show.

  108. Turncloak
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    ramsayreek,

    That’s not sarcasm. LS is one of the few things in ASOS that I never expected. The Red Wedding I saw coming a mile away. Also, the Epilogue was so epic, i literally stood up after reading the scene and paced around the apartment. No saw it as justice coming for the Starks at the time. This is prior to Brienee meeting LS ofcourse

  109. Turncloak
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    ramsayreek,

    Also BloodRaven and the children did not show up in a Storm of Swords. Why would I be shocked by something that didn’t happen in that book. Ur confusing ASOS with ADWD. Stannis showing up at the wall was my 2nd favorite scene from ASOS. Did not see that coming either. Did not see Oberyn’s death coming but was more shocked and disappointed and I was definitely not fist pumping to that. Tyrion killing Tywing also caught me off guard but I saw Jaime rescuing Tyrion from a mile away as well. Just didn’t know that the heroic rescue scene I was expecting would be turned on it’s head into ending the nice Jaime/Tyrion relationship. The Purple wedding was also unexpected and awesome but Tyrion getting captured took some of my pumping away. Nothing compares to the curveball LS reveal. “She don’t speak, but she remembers”

  110. Fat 'n' Balda
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury,

    Discuss =/= scream + cry + tear your hair out.
    Don’t get me wrong, I am very invested in the story, have read all the books, etc. and bite my fingernails til they bleed anticipating and watching each and every episode.
    In the end, it’s still a tv show.

  111. Sister Wrister
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Troublesome Birdsong,

    Thank you. Very well said.

    I’m beginning to like the idea of seeing a stark montage in a bloodraven inspired Branvision, with LS being his final vision…. Maybe he opens his eyes, then black, like season two.

  112. Harry
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    Regarding LS :

    as someone said before, she is no “zombie”. She is still alive, could be killed again, but her heart is broken and she only wants revenge. So I think if D&D find the right tone, they can include her without being “trashy”.

    I don’t see why LS could not be in the final episode just because she was not referred to when talking about the prosthetics in the next episode.
    She just needs to be pale and have a cloth-covered on her neck. Nothing that couldn’t be done with CGI (when she briefly lifts her scarf.)

  113. arden
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    few questions for show-apologists

    -How come nobody on top of the wall can see the fire going in Tormunds camp 20 ft away from Castle Black

    -Forget that Gilly has a baby that wont stop crying – How do Gilly and her baby get through the wildling camp unnoticed

    -Why is the NW leaving the defenses to the south in charge of Pyp and Sam and 5 other people when they know that Molestown was raided and that Wildlings are coming to Castle Black.

    -Why is there no tunnel defense when we had a scene with Alliser some random guy and Jon telling him “we can’t seal the tunnel because it’s our duty to protect it!111″ (The idea to send 6 men to defend the gate was an afterthought and an act of desperation by Jon)

    -What is the point of Mance signaling a fire for the people of the south If he is not even going to attack the Wall with them!! Why not send 3 giants instead of 2? One could hold open the gate (NW didn’t even attempt to stop him) and let Wildlings flood in while the other fights the 6 man crew defending the tunnel LMFAO.

    -Why is the NW taken by complete surprise at this attack, they have literally been setting this battle up for 8 episodes

  114. Jen@House Stark
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    Troublesome Birdsong: Would it spoil the surprise or would it just move it to an earlier point? What about Arstan Whitebeard turning out to be Barristan Selmy? Did the show spoil that surprise?
    Surely resurrection is pretty surprising, if handled correctly. Especially if it happened in 4×01, after the hiatus, once viewers had already spent 10 months assuming she was gone.
    It works in the books, because it’s a book. The chapters are POV, so we don’t see certain events, because there’s no character for us to see it through, and that’s fine.
    But as people keep pointing out – the show is not the books, mainly because it’s a different medium. The first rule of visual performance is wherever you can ‘show, don’t tell’. The beauty of the show is that now they don’t have to stick to the POVs from the books. We can see conversations between Margaery and Olenna, Renly and Loras, Robb and Talisa, rather than just hearing about them secondhand.

    The story is full of redemptive arcs with ‘bad guys’ turning into ‘good guys’. I always saw the rise of Lady Stoneheart as the best option to show a ‘good guy’ become a ‘bad guy’ for fairly legitimate reasons, but also as a physical depiction of the dangers of vengeance. Calling her a zombie is a bit much, just because her body is ravaged now. Was Beric a zombie? She doesn’t eat people, she doesn’t have super strength or anything, she still feels pains, you can kill her again in any conventional manner. The point is that she’s lost everything she loves and has embraced revenge as her motivation, not that she can’t talk properly and looks like a corpse.

    Thank you, thank you for this. My thoughts exactly. Was there any logic to the Red Wedding? Kill your own leader? His pregnant wife? His mother? Madness, plain and simple. AND to trust Freys, Boltons and Tywin Lannister over the Northmen? Not on the life of my dear mother, Old Lady Stark. So, yeah give us Lady Stoneheart. Joffrey being dead does not even begin to cover the debt owed to the North.

  115. Maxwell James
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    The fact that LS is controversial among book readers, as evidenced by this very thread, is exactly why I expect her to be included.

    I have no doubt that if LS is in, there will be a divided reaction among critics. Some will love it; others will claim that the show has jumped the shark. But that controversy will result in excited dialogue, conversation, and attention – HBO’s lifeblood.

  116. fuelpagan
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    I’m tired of hearing the bitching regarding Grey Worm and Missandi storyline.

    Grey Worm is our portal into the mind of the unsullied. To show the audience the Unsullied are more than just warriors. How they still have feelings and passions they want to pursue outside of being an army soldier or guard. These “men” may be able to find purpose in life after the war is won.

    The Grey Worm/Missandi relationship isn’t important to the story, but the fact an Unsullied wants to have a relationship is important. It’s important for Dany to know of this, as it will shape her decision on what to do with the Unsullied once the Iron Throne is secure.

  117. Turncloak
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    So how do you guys feel about what’s implied in the episode 10 preview? Specifically, that Cersei tells Tywin that she’s been sleeping with Jaime. I don’t know how I feel about that as Cersei is on a quest for vengeance against Tyrion and treats Tywin as a god after he dies

  118. Turncloak
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    Maxwell James,

    I understand why some ppl don’t like the LS reveal. It dimishes the threat of death in the series as witnessed by the speculation that Melisandre might revive Jon after he’s betrayed by the Nights Watch. I loved it though and am excited to see it!

  119. arden
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:29 am | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    It just proves that D&D were really speaking out of their ass when they said that they love the series. If they are willing to deviate so much from the source material you have to wonder…Cersei is ADAMANTLY against this in the book. It makes no sense and just proves D&D are clueless.

  120. 3 Finger Nobb
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:30 am | Permalink

    extended promo for E10 is up

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTYFbpsFsKs

  121. Redjoyish
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    fuelpagan:
    I’m tired of hearing the bitching regarding Grey Worm and Missandi storyline.

    Grey Worm is our portal into the mind of the unsullied. To show the audience the Unsullied are more than just warriors. How they still have feelings and passions they want to pursue outside of being an army soldier or guard. These “men” may be able to find purpose in life after the war is won.

    The Grey Worm/Missandi relationship isn’t important to the story, but the fact an Unsullied wants to have a relationship is important. It’s important for Dany to know of this, as it will shape her decision on what to do with the Unsullied once the Iron Throne is secure.

    More important than, let’s say, develop YarAsha Greyjoy whose family is going to be a key aspect of the next season? It’s not important that Unsullied are more than warriors, it can be explained with less screentime. These two aspects, Theon’s rescue and Greyworm/Missandei have been the weakest aspects of an otherwise amazing season.

  122. Genevosey
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    I hope they cut LS out. Serves no purpose in my opinion and I have read all the books 3 times. Someone explain to me why LS is important?

  123. Dutch maester
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    So, I was wondering how long this season’s been compared to others previous seasons in terms of pure episode time (so not counting title sequence, previously on or credits). Assuming the final episode has a pure screentime of 63 minutes (66 – 3 credits and title), season 4 is only narrowly not the shortest season:

    Season 1 = 532 minutes, 45 seconds
    Season 2 = 511 minutes, 15 seconds
    Season 3 = 522 minutes, 30 sedonds
    Season 4 = 513 minutes, 15 seconds

    Actually took quite some time to calculate this :P. One reason could be the fact that major battle scenes require more time to shoot, so the amount of actual footage is less despite having an equal amount of days.

    Nevertheless, four seasons in, we have an astonishing amount of about 34 hours and 40 minutes of pure story time.

  124. TorbofThrones
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    arden,

    1. Even if they see it, they can’t do much about it. Tormund says so himself, fighting them in the open is what they do. They stay in Castle Black because it’s their ground and they have protection there.

    2. No idea. Luck I guess, but kind of silly, yeah.

    3. Because they were focusing on protecting the main gate from above. And Alliser was sent down once they got the word that they got in, but the main threat was always on the outside of the wall. And it’s not Sam, Pyp and 5 guys protecting the south, it’s them protecting the gate. There’s like 70 NW in the yard protecting.

    4. No, the reason they didn’t want to seal the tunnel was because it would make them blind. They want it for ranging.

    5. He uses the fire as a signal so the wildlings south will attack, which they did. It’s also kind of terrifying. He attacked with 2 giants because if he’d attacked with 3, he would’ve risked 3 getting killed by the fire or by the arrows (look what happened). He tested their defenses, and he makes them use up their oil. Also, budget reasons, but it’s a careful and working strategy. The NW couldn’t stop the one opening the gate because any barrels would probably hit the ground a few metres behind him, and the same thing with the ballistae.

    6. They are not taken completely by surprise at all. Just Janos Slynt being a bitch and not seeing Giants, everyone else was clearly ready for an assault.

  125. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Redjoyish: More important than, let’s say, develop YarAsha Greyjoy whose family is going to be a key aspect of the next season? It’s not important that Unsullied are more than warriors, it can be explained with less screentime. These two aspects, Theon’s rescue and Greyworm/Missandei have been the weakest aspects of an otherwise amazing season.

    I disagree on Greyworm/ Missandei. That relationship has been highly successful, at least for me, in fleshing out the world of Daenarys, the people of Essos, and why we should care about what happens on that side of the Narrow Sea. In the books, Essos is far more of a cardboard “Oriental” place, and Daenerys’ chapters suffer for it. The showrunners are better world-builders than I could have ever expected, and the Greyworm/ Missandei stuff is a big part of that (and Greyworm’s infiltration of Meereen was one of my favorite scenes this season, which I didn’t expect).

  126. Sunfyre
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    Maxwell James,

    Agreed.

    Some viewers need to be reminded that the supernatural/magic is a huge part of this series. Lady Stoneheart is one of the prime examples of the return of magic to the world. If some see it as a jump-the-shark moment so be it. This is a major aspect of the series GRRM created.

    Can’t shy away from what ASOIAF actually is. It isn’t historical fiction. It’s fantasy.

  127. Tatters
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:41 am | Permalink

    arden,

    They are not clueless when they have read more of asoiaf than you, they are the ones putting the clues here. You seem to have a problem with D&D superiority. So they made up another scene of people with something that you didnt read in a book- make sense to me.

  128. Tar Kidho
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:42 am | Permalink

    Dutch maester,

    So it is known then that the final episode will be that long? (sorry if I come across now as totally clue-less – I stay away from many posts to avoid spoilers) That would be great! And needed as well, because as your numbers show, if it would be another 50-ish minute episode, this would be the shortest season by far…

  129. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    3 Finger Nobb:
    extended promo for E10 is up

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTYFbpsFsKs

    I cannot believe HBO authorized that extended promo for release. It clearly and unequivocally spoils Tyrion’s escape (with Jaime at his side.) There are a gazillion unsullied who are very worried that Tyrion will die, and if they watch this promo, that will kill a lot of tension.

  130. Ser Florian
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    arden,

    Something someone thinks is implied from a snippet of dialogue in the 35 second preview of an episode that hasn’t aired yet, is proof that D&D don’t actually like the series they’ve spent… however many years adapting? O.K.

  131. Genevosey
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    Purists,

    Let’s just say you never read the books. This is probably a top 10 show of all time right now as it stands. Visually, Pop Culture impact, acting, character development and writing. Simply stunning regardless of the Source Material. As for the Source Material I don’t know that any 1 main story line has been changed in anyway. Sure some parts here and there of course but an overall story, the end game? I don’t think so. All the Arc’s are where they are supposed to be right now. If you were planning on the book just going straight from the page to the screen then you would be kidding yourself. Overall fantastic job so far through 4 season of TV.

  132. sati
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:51 am | Permalink

    ArgonathofBraavos,

    This is fanmade, The shot of that moment is from Foreshadowing special

  133. Maxwell James
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:52 am | Permalink

    Turncloak,
    Sunfyre,

    I have mixed feelings about it myself! Two books and 14 years later, I still don’t really understand where Martin is going with that thread, which DOES seem to run against one of the main themes in his story.

    But I’m willing to roll with it, because her introduction is great. And the fact that I don’t feel like I know where he’s going with it makes it intriguing.

  134. Maxwell James
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    OT: for the other Grey Worm/Missandei fans in the audience (I’m all for ‘em), a good interview with David Peterson, in which he praises Jacob Anderson to the skies:

    http://www.avclub.com/article/meet-game-thrones-resident-linguist-ki-fin-yeni-205542

  135. Ser Florian
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    ArgonathofBraavos,

    It doesn’t show Tyrion escaping, if you’re Unsullied and don’t know that Tyrion escapes. It shows Tyrion walking down a corridor… my Unsullied friends/family think it’s him being led to his death/execution or to a final confrontation/goodbye with Tywin.

    I seriously think people are reaching for things to complain about. I’m glad D&D tend to ignore internet commentary, because if this episode isn’t everything every sullied in the world wants it to be, and then some, there’s going to be a lot of crap thrown their way.

  136. Troublesome Birdsong
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    Genevosey:
    I hope they cut LS out. Serves no purpose in my opinion and I have read all the books 3 times. Someone explain to me why LS is important?

    Thematically she is very important. Character arcs can go both ways. Jaime has a redemptive arc.
    Catelyn has a destructive arc.
    Just as Arya is gradually locking away her empathy and effectively turning into a serial killer, Catelyn has nothing left, but vengeance. And the point is we side with her, just as we’re still gunning for Arya.
    The North Remembers, right? We want her to kill all the Freys, because they deserve it, right?
    The Starks will defeat the traitors. That’s justice. So that in the end the good guys can still win and the bad guys get their comeuppance.
    Then she starts threatening Brienne and Jaime for justifiable reasons. We understand why, but we’ve seen things she doesn’t know about, so we suddenly don’t agree with her actions. And we realise, maybe we’ve unknowingly sided with a villain, because the bits of Cat that are left aren’t enough to keep her objective and temperate.

  137. Redjoyish
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    ArgonathofBraavos: I disagree on Greyworm/ Missandei. That relationship has been highly successful, at least for me, in fleshing out the world of Daenarys, the people of Essos, and why we should care about what happens on that side of the Narrow Sea. In the books, Essos is far more of a cardboard “Oriental” place, and Daenerys’ chapters suffer for it. The showrunners are better world-builders than I could have ever expected, and the Greyworm/ Missandei stuff is a big part of that (and Greyworm’s infiltration of Meereen was one of my favorite scenes this season, which I didn’t expect).

    I’m not saying it was not successful, but we’ve followed Daenerys for four reasons, in and out, while such an important family is basically left in the dark minus two scenes in two seasons and the mumblings of Reek. Balon is still alive!

  138. Dutch maester
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    Tar Kidho,

    Yes, the episode is 66 minutes long including title sequence and credits (excluding previously on). Which, btw, makes this the longest episode to date.

  139. Tatters
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    ArgonathofBraavos,

    Well, thats mainly because Essos in the books reflect Westeros, from the point of view of westerosi. Its different point to be made about essos than the books. Easily, D&D made the show less individual than the books, so everything in a good adaption should make as much or more sense than in the books. Meereen is very dominated by how Dany sees it, its refreshing to feel otherwise. Essos isnt really a place in the books, until we get to Dance. Its like specifically because its so thin that make Dany interesting. Kind of how Joffrey was so despicable, everyone else around seemed almost likable. Now that he is gone, everything feels different in Kings landing. If you move Dany to westeros, everything about her will be different. Its clever use of cliches in fantasy.

  140. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    Ser Florian:
    ArgonathofBraavos,

    It doesn’t show Tyrion escaping, if you’re Unsullied and don’t know that Tyrion escapes. It shows Tyrion walking down a corridor… my Unsullied friends/family think it’s him being led to his death/execution or to a final confrontation/goodbye with Tywin.

    I seriously think people are reaching for things to complain about. I’m glad D&D tend to ignore internet commentary, because if this episode isn’t everything every sullied in the world wants it to be, and then some, there’s going to be a lot of crap thrown their way.

    They are clearly jogging, rather than walking, along that dark corridor. Yes, not everyone will pick up on it. But there are some, who refuse to believe that Tyrion may bite the dust, who will almost certainly latch onto it (and already have, based on certain comments in that youtube comments section).

    And please don’t group me in with this ill-defined group of people that is grasping to complain. I’ve loved every episode of this season, and think that Benioff and Weiss have made precious few missteps. I also tend to think they are better writers than GRRM, for the most part.

    This is going to an amazing episode – I’m sure of it. I just want unsullied to remain unsullied!

  141. BlackBloc
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    I’m not convinced Coldhands is cut. Seriously guys, you think they’re wrapping up Bran’s storyline in *this* season? No. They were trying to find something for them to do while everybody else catches up. Yeah, so they cast Bloodraven. So? They probably will just see him in some Treevision(TM) broadcast, for a short period of time in the finale. Coldhands probably gets to them later, like S5, and brings them to Bloodraven proper end of S5 or so.

    Even Strong Belwas is a possibility, though he won’t exactly be Book!Belwas. He may even just be a cameo, but still. He’s a Mereen pit fighter so it makes perfect sense to make him one of those characters when the whole politics about bringing back the pit fighting comes in. Just think of how they got Jojen and Meera to show up in the show. Same deal.

  142. Dnis
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    The Lady Stoneheart reveal is my single least favorite moment of ASOIAF, which is saying something considering the quality of Books 4 and 5. It cheapens the Red Wedding and cheapens death itself, as it heralds a universe in which things that die don’t stay dead. When it was just Beric it could be ignored, but after Lady Stoneheart, we were treated to the Drowned God and more Red Priests suddenly resurrecting people. Awful.

    Then again, I was one of those people who were happy to see Catelyn die. She made so many stupid, impulsive decisions.

    Despite my strong opinion on Lady Stoneheart in the book, I’m indifferent to her potential appearance in the show. I’m just along for the ride, even if I personally would have the Blackfish take her place and save the next (and final) resurrection for Melisandre-on-Jon.

  143. Dutch maester
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    BlackBloc,

    The first part of your comment is definitely NOT true. John Bradley (Samwell) confirmed Coldhands has been cut (at least for now), the Emmy make up document confirms the appearances of both the Children and Bloodraven, and we’ve seen a trailer shot of Bran in the cave.

    The second part might be true, but I put this in the “wishful thinking” category…

  144. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    Tatters:
    ArgonathofBraavos,

    Well, thats mainly because Essos in the books reflect Westeros, from the point of view of westerosi. Its different point to be made about essos than the books. Easily, D&D made the show less individual than the books, so everything in a good adaption should make as much or more sense than in the books. Meereen is very dominated by how Dany sees it, its refreshing to feel otherwise. Essos isnt really a place in the books, until we get to Dance. Its like specifically because its so thin that make Dany interesting. Kind of how Joffrey was so despicable, everyone else around seemed almost likable. Now that he is gone, everything feels different in Kings landing. If you move Dany to westeros, everything about her will be different. Its clever use of cliches in fantasy.

    I would generally agree with that, and actually don’t fault GRRM for portraying Essos the way he does. It’s similar to how Tolkien portrays Easterlings and Haradrim the way the westerners of Middle Earth see them, not necessarily as they are. Echoes the myths and prejudices of Dark Age and medieval western Europeans.

    However, I think in a television medium, since you are showing an audience something directly, you have to depart from that strict sense of POV. In that sense, it would have been a mistake to have Essos be too much of an oriental caricature.

    This is the essence of good adaptation, IMO. Understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the visual medium, and using that understanding to the greatest advantage.

  145. Sunfyre
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    Troublesome Birdsong,

    Awesome post. This is something Martin excels at. He plays on our overwhelming desire to see the bad guys punished. To see the Starks emerge triumphant. I think the series is heading that way anyway but it is as if Martin is saying “not so fast. Nothing is that easy or simplistic in this world. I’m not going to give you your avenging angel. I’m going to give you the sad twisted husk of a human being you once cared about.” This makes the journey messy. It implicates and provokes the audience, forcing us to examine the price of justice. There is a lot going on with Lady Stoneheart, and much of it is between Martin and his readers. LS is meta.

  146. fuelpagan
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    Redjoyish: More important than, let’s say, develop YarAsha Greyjoy whose family is going to be a key aspect of the next season? It’s not important that Unsullied are more than warriors, it can be explained with less screentime. These two aspects, Theon’s rescue and Greyworm/Missandei have been the weakest aspects of an otherwise amazing season.

    That would depend entirely on what purpose the Iron Born serve next season. I doubt we will have a kingsmoot. And if we do, D&D delaying the death of Balon allows them to service that story next season. They can develop Yara Greyjoy character more next season when it will be important.

    Theon’s rescue did build her character. Unlike Balon, Yara still felt Theon was worth fighting to rescue, despite his inability to father any more Greyjoys. Only after seeing how broken Theon has become does she admit he is a lost cause. A broken man could never rule the Iron Born, and explains her attempt to succeed Balon after his death.

    Personally I would have liked to have had more character building with the Nights Watch.

    All I’m saying is the Missandi/Grey Worm relationship serves a purpose. The books simply have Dany getting reports of the Unsullied behavior.

  147. sati
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    Dnis,

    Out of all the claims the claim that LS cheapens RW is the weirdest. Instead of resting in peace Catelyn is a vengeful monster. How is that better than death?

  148. Turncloak
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    BlackBloc,

    Many people belove that Coldhands is The Nights King. Since we already seen the Nights King this season that leads me to believe that Coldhands story involving Bran has been cut. Also leads me to believe that BloodRaven an the CotF are the true antagonists of the series. BloodRaven is essentially Tyrion as he was unjustifiably blamed for the tragedy at Summerhall that claimed Ser Duncan and Egg’s lives. He was then sent to the wall as Aemon’s “honor guard”. BloodRaven is fed up with mankind and is trying to reclaim westeros for The Children

  149. RobbBreakWind
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    The Cook of House Nightwatch,

    This is the best comment so far!

  150. Husband2Bears
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    Genevosey,

    how do you know? there’s at least 2 books to go – how can you possibly know if she bears any importance on the final story?

  151. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    arden:
    few questions for show-apologists

    -How come nobody on top of the wall can see the fire going in Tormunds camp 20 ft away from Castle Black

    -Forget that Gilly has a baby that wont stop crying – How do Gilly and her baby get through the wildling camp unnoticed

    -Why is the NW leaving the defenses to the south in charge of Pyp and Sam and 5 other people when they know that Molestown was raided and that Wildlings are coming to Castle Black.

    -Why is there no tunnel defense when we had a scene with Alliser some random guy and Jon telling him “we can’t seal the tunnel because it’s our duty to protect it!111″ (The idea to send 6 men to defend the gate was an afterthought and an act of desperation by Jon)

    -What is the point of Mance signaling a fire for the people of the southIf he is not even going to attack the Wall with them!! Why not send 3 giants instead of 2? One could hold open the gate (NW didn’t even attempt to stop him) and let Wildlings flood in while the other fights the 6 man crew defending the tunnel LMFAO.

    -Why is the NW taken by complete surprise at this attack, they have literally been setting this battle up for 8 episodes

    All decent questions, but I really don’t care. I can’t help but get the sense that a lot of show-haters miss the forest for the trees. You’re like particularly pedantic grammarians, technocrats and engineers, getting caught up in far too many insignificant details. This is a “story.” Stories are told, not experienced in real time. In stories that are told, not everything adds up. That works for me.

    Instead of focusing on the excellent characterization, dialogue, acting and cinematography, you’re focusing on why nobody saw Gilly? I find this hard to understand.

  152. JohnnySD
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:28 am | Permalink

    Wrath of the Gods:
    I’m by no means a purist. I never bitched about, say, Renlys peach. There are some slight disappointments though, like the show not properly fleshing out any of the propechecies of ASOIAF other than a few mentions of Stannis being Azor Ahai reborn. Ned’s promise, Robb’s will, Daenarys visions, the bridge of ships and the chain on the Blackwater, wolf dreams other than Brans… I got over all of those being cut because the show is still damn good no matter what. Even Grenn subbing in for Noye felt right.

    HOWEVER, with that said, I would be extremely upset if LS was not in the show. Its the ultimate moment of hope, and revenge, and exactly what fans of the show need after everyone dying left and right.

    Don’t fix what’s not broken.

    Ultimate moment of hope and revenge? I know you are not alone in this line of thinking and that’s fine, but I think LS is the lamest part of the books and would be really happy if it was completely cut. I see none of the “hope” you see, just a tired and too often used fantasy crutch that greatly diminishes the impact of the story. Unfortunately, it looks like it will not stay the lamest part of the story, as it appears certain GRRM will go there again by resurrecting John

  153. House Ray
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    Whats all this about Jamie going to Dorne

    Sources? Please? Thanks.

  154. Dnis
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    sati,

    Do you think she’d rather have stayed dead? I doubt it.

    Anyways, I’m totally amped up for this episode, regardless of how exactly it will end.

  155. Ser Florian
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    Turncloak,

    Err… No. Aegon the Unlikely (Egg) sent him to the Wall, and released him from the Red Keeps cells, where Maekar had put him, because the High Septon had bad mouthed Bloodraven (probably because of the accusations of “socrery” levelled against him, and possibly because he followed the Old Gods, being a Blackwood). Also, Maekar never liked him, because he expected to be named Hand by Aerys I, but Aerys named Bloodraven, and so Maekar saw him as a threat. Bloodraven went to the Wall around 233AC. Tragedy at Summerhall struck in 259AC.

    Also, I don’t buy that the Children or Bloodraven are the “bad guys”, looking to remove humanity… I think they’re resigned to the fact that the world has moved beyond them, and their time is nearly done. They don’t resent human’s progress, and are in fact going to help them against the Others, as they did during the Long Night.

  156. Dutch maester
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    If anything, the fact that we haven’t seen Balon die yet makes the Kingsmoot much more likely to be in. Kill Balon early next seaon, and introduce the brothers right after.

  157. Genevosey
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    Troublesome Birdsong,

    I like that

  158. Genevosey
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    Husband2Bears,

    I don’t, I just don’t see it yet. Hey I love the books and the show and I deal with that aspect of it, just isn’t my favorite part

  159. Ser Florian
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    House Ray,

    I’ll spoiler this, just in case… In one of the (leaked?) Sand Snake audition tapes, it’s mentioned by the character or one of the characters involved, that they’ve been told that the Kingslayer was spotted disembarking from a boat in Plankytown. Hardly confirmation… there are numerous explanations for it aside from Jaime being in Dorne.

  160. Greatjon of Slumber
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    ArgonathofBraavos: I disagree on Greyworm/ Missandei. That relationship has been highly successful, at least for me, in fleshing out the world of Daenarys, the people of Essos, and why we should care about what happens on that side of the Narrow Sea. In the books, Essos is far more of a cardboard “Oriental” place, and Daenerys’ chapters suffer for it. The showrunners are better world-builders than I could have ever expected, and the Greyworm/ Missandei stuff is a big part of that (and Greyworm’s infiltration of Meereen was one of my favorite scenes this season, which I didn’t expect).

    I agree, and find the filling out of Grey Worm’s character to be pretty fascinating. And seriously, fuck the Greyjoys. If we get more of them, fine, if only to show what short-sighted thinkers and poor strategic planners they are.

  161. arden
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    ArgonathofBraavos,

    Excellent characterization? The Wildlings are portrayed as bloodthirsty cannibals who want nothing other than to kill crows. Are you really going to be on Jon’s side when he lets these people through the wall in a season??Letting the wildlings through would almost be as boneheaded a move as WILLINGLY facing a wildling army of 100,000. Actually it’s worse – it’s straight up retarded

    Not sure how Sam talking about never getting laid for 100th time is good dialogue but O.K.

    If you think that is “Excellent characterization” then there is nothing that I can say to persuade you.

  162. Troublesome Birdsong
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    Dnis:
    The Lady Stoneheart reveal is my single least favorite moment of ASOIAF, which is saying something considering the quality of Books 4 and 5.It cheapens the Red Wedding and cheapens death itself, as it heralds a universe in which things that die don’t stay dead.When it was just Beric it could be ignored, but after Lady Stoneheart, we were treated to the Drowned God and more Red Priests suddenly resurrecting people. Awful.

    Then again, I was one of those people who were happy to see Catelyn die.She made so many stupid, impulsive decisions.

    Despite my strong opinion on Lady Stoneheart in the book, I’m indifferent to her potential appearance in the show. I’m just along for the ride, even if I personally would have the Blackfish take her place and save the next (and final) resurrection for Melisandre-on-Jon.

    So when it’s Cat coming back to life, it cheapens death, but you’re fine with Jon coming back. Double standards much?
    Is it just because you don’t like Cat? I didn’t like her much either. But I think coming back as Lady Stoneheart has made her a heaps better character. She’s now vengeance incarnate, effectively a villain that we are sorely tempted to relate to, but more importantly she has an absolutely justifiable reason for being the way she is. It doesn’t cheapen the red wedding, it allows the effects of the red wedding and the likelihood of retribution to live on, rather than be forgotten.
    Not to mention, it’s not like she has come back as Catelyn Stark. it wasn’t just a do-over, like she had an extra life in a video game.
    If that happened I’d probably be as annoyed with it as you are.
    But her wounds will never heal, and like Beric, she has lost part of herself from the experience of coming back; forgotten part of who she was.
    It may be heralding a universe in which things that die don’t stay dead, but obviously not everyone can come back and GRRM has made it clear that coming back was probably the wrong thing to have done.

    Also – The Drowned God isn’t actually bringing people back to life. They’re just resuscitating them and it’s viewed as divine intervention. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.

    Dnis: Do you think she’d rather have stayed dead? I doubt it.

    Well, then I think you’re missing the point.

  163. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    arden:
    ArgonathofBraavos,

    Excellent characterization? The Wildlings are portrayed as bloodthirsty cannibals who want nothing other than to kill crows. Are you really going to be on Jon’s side when he lets these people through the wall in a season?? That is almost as boneheaded a move as WILLINGLY facing a wildling army of 100,000.

    If you think that is “Excellent characterization” then there is nothing that I can say to persuade you.

    Er, you’re describing only the Thenns (and yes, there are murderous people in the world, and it’s okay for some of GRRMs characters to be close to unredeemable).

    I thought Tormund, Ygritte, Mance and others were rather likeable and three-dimensional characters. The grievances of the wildlings were laid out clearly, and they understandably did not appreciate being stuck on the other side of a massive wall while White Walkers and zombies were on the rise.

    The reason they kill villagers is tactical. They are attempting to draw the Night’s Watch out into the open, where they can pick them off.

    These tactics have their roots in historical reality (and present reality – look at some of the tactics of certain terrorist groups in Iraq at the moment), and I fail to see why this is evidence of one-dimensionality.

  164. Luka Nieto Garay
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    BlackBloc,

    Not only did they cast Bloodraven. They also cast a child to play Leaf, one of the Children of the Forest, and a very short Asian young woman for another nameless CotF.. Also, the show foreshadowed pretty heavily that Bran will find the tree this season. You know, the tree that is in next episode’s preview. And a myriad other reasons I could tell you, but why bother; my bet is that Coldhands is cut and that the season will leave Bran a (very long) chapter away from ending his storyline from ADWD. I guess we’ll see in three days who is right.

  165. lol
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    ITT: Stark reminders of why I find the bookreader side of Game of Thrones fandom to be absolutely insufferable.

  166. arden
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    ArgonathofBraavos,

    Not even sure how you can say excellent characterization when I can bet 75% of unsullied don’t know who the fuck Mance is or what he looks like.

  167. Troublesome Birdsong
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    BlackBloc,

    Many people belove that Coldhands is The Nights King.

    Out of all the theories about who he is, I still like to subscribe to him being Ser Duncan. I know he supposedly died at Summerhall, but weirder things have happened. Rather than letting people know he survived, he may have just decided to stay ‘dead’, given that Aegon had perished, and live out his life at the Wall with Aegon’s brother. Not to mention this may explain the connection between him and Brynden Rivers.

  168. King of the Ashes
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    as much as Lena Headey has been teasing stuff, I’m pretty sure that LS is in

  169. arden
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    lol,

    People on this site complaining about people who complain about changes in the show?!!? It’s a big circle! People like you literally make no fucking sense to me. You’re doing the same thing I’m doing except no substance—just a useless post.

    Newsflash this is a site dedicated to Game of Thrones the TV Show. You are allowed to dislike and state your problems with the show if the show is guillotining the shit out of your favorite books.

  170. sati
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    Dnis:
    sati,

    Do you think she’d rather have stayed dead?I doubt it.

    Anyways, I’m totally amped up for this episode, regardless of how exactly it will end.

    It’s not a matter of choice, I’d think it’s obvious.

    Wic moderatiors – what is up with needing to fill up all the info each time one comments? Hugely annoying

  171. Tatters
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    arden,

    So? He is over a season gone, does it matter?

  172. Darkstar
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss):
    Our Blades Are Sharp,

    …….. and the minority (the astute and observant fans and book readers) are being neglected.

    Please get over yourself.

  173. King of the Ashes
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    ridiculous fanboy demands. no winning with some of us.

  174. King of the Ashes
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    Darkstar: Please get over yourself.

    and quickly please

  175. Jon
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 12:19 pm | Permalink
  176. Carne
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 12:21 pm | Permalink
  177. Redjoyish
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    Jon:
    Interesting french promo (with spoilers):
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1z84wc_game-of-thrones-saison-4-episode-10-sur-ocs-city_tv

    This is the most spoilerish promo ever. It basically spoils two major plot points. It shows Jaime and Tyrion running away together and Melisandre talking about the Wall. Not to mention Brienne right before Arya says “There’s people coming”.

    EDIT : I posted it at the ASOIAF sub, as it seems it wasn’t there yet.

  178. Lars
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    arden:
    ArgonathofBraavos,

    Excellent characterization? The Wildlings are portrayed as bloodthirsty cannibals who want nothing other than to kill crows. Are you really going to be on Jon’s side when he lets these people through the wall in a season?? That is almost as boneheaded a move as WILLINGLY facing a wildling army of 100,000.

    If you think that is “Excellent characterization” then there is nothing that I can say to persuade you.

    A newsflash for you: In the BOOK, some wildlings are indeed bloodthirsty cannibals.

    But not all wildlings are portrayed that way in the show, only a minority. More reasonable wildling characters: Gilly, Ygritte, Tormund, Mance.

  179. Husband2Bears
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    Ser Florian,

    ^^ This^^

    Also – ser Duncan the tall escorted BR & Aemon to the wall.

  180. Turncloak
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    Carne,

    Looks like the role of the very first faceless man rebelling in Old Valyria. We might get a flashback as the Kindly Man explains that scene to Arya

  181. Turncloak
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    Carne,

    Additionally it can be related to Tyrion’s Mereen arc and could be the way he frees himself from slavery

  182. fuelpagan
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

    Dutch maester,

    Not sure about that. They can have Balon die next season and maybe have a mini moot between Yara, Victarion and Euron on who should rule. Don’t expect a big build up to the moot, then a big meeting with everyone shouting who they want to rule.

    For me, all the kingsmoot does is set up that Euron isn’t trusted by the rest of the family and they want a way to subvert Euron’s claim since he is next in succession after Theon. All of which ends up being for nothing since Euron is elected anyway. Don’t be surprised if D&D find another way to present this information and avoid the moot. If they do have the moot…great. But you won’t see me holding my breath expecting it.

    It appears the Lord Commander election will be next season. If the kingsmoot is happening at the same time, I guess they could have an episode called “Westeros – Vote or Die.”

  183. Sunfyre
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

    I’m excited for “The Children” but I’m also anticipating some in-depth post-season interviews with D&D regarding the future of the series. I know they usually don’t spoil things in detail but hopefully they’ll be forthcoming about number of seasons they’re aiming toward, hints about scope of the series (choice to include Dorne, possibly cutting Ironborn), and whether they’ll get ahead of the books next season.

  184. Blind Beth
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    Carne,

    This might be a huge reach, but he mentions a Spartacus-style slave rebellion so my mind went to Yunkai/Astapoor – Cleon the Butcher???

  185. Dutch maester
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    I’m not expecting a build-up, no. mini-moot sounds fine xD

  186. Kosis
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    Theory for the potential Brienne & Hound showdown…What if they are getting ready to fight and are attacked on all sides by the hill tribes? They are at the Vale after all. Would add some nice continuity to the area and call back to the Tyrion and Catelyn attack. The Hound, Brienne and Pod get hurt in the skirmish and Arya escapes.

  187. Dnis
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    Troublesome Birdsong,

    I don’t particularly like the potential Jon resurrection, either, but I don’t see how it can be avoided. In the show, at least, we’ve already gotten a Melisandre-Thoros scene that strongly hints where things will end up with Jon in TWOW. And at least with Jon, the resurrection will likely happen almost immediately, making it akin to a failed assassination attempt (these are plentiful in the ASOIAF universe).

    Yes, I acknowledge that I don’t like Catelyn. It’s part of why I don’t like Lady Stoneheart, but only part of it.

  188. impuregold
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    OT: Just saw this and thought it was pretty great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgqUI6e1T5E#t=112

  189. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    JamesL,
    Blind Beth,

    I am also mystified about why people want LS to appear. Just my humble opinion folks…not meant to stir up the pot or piss you guys off.

    I HATED the idea of LS in the books. There’s plenty enough darkness in even the good characters on the show, why go there? I honestly didn’t like Cat before her death in the books or in the show (not saying I didn’t like Fairley’s performance, she was terrific) but I could never get over three things: 1) how mean she was to Jon–children are innocent of their parentage (this is a personal thing with me); 2) how she manipulated Ned in the beginning of the books to make decisions come out the way she wanted and those decisions were disastrous; and, 3) the way she neglected Rickon and her responsibilities after Bran was injured.

    So now I’m not looking forward to how she will affect some of my beloved characters like Brienne. On the other hand, I recognize it does provide excellent grist for the creative mill and the show will need some drama for Brienne and Jaime next season. I don’t have a clue as to what they could do instead…..and anything they might do as a substitute will piss a lot of purists off.

    That all being said…since they don’t do flashbacks…how the heck can they explain how she came to be resurrected? It’d have to be through Bran and his visions (or maybe someone’s dreams) but who has had dreams shown? Only Bran, Dany and ????? In the books Arya dreams/wargs into Nymeria and sees her mother’s body, pulling it out of the water, but they haven’t shown us anything like that from Arya, or have they?

    Essentially I was hoping that they’d leave LS out and the complete lack of any information over such a long period of time had me optimistic but not certain.

  190. ArgonathofBraavos
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    arden:
    ArgonathofBraavos,

    Not even sure how you can say excellent characterization when I can bet 75% of unsullied don’t know who the fuck Mance is or what he looks like.

    Mance is the major threat beyond the Wall. I thnk. it’s good storytelling to keep him mysterious. Plus, there are no POV characters around him. So you either need to make him a POV character, or show detached build-up scenes aka the White Walkers (big scenes of the army on the march). I think they made the right choice in making him a largely faceless threat until now.

  191. trarecar
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    arden,

    The Unsullied know who Mance is. Seriously, most of the complaining I see on here from the Sullied seems to stem from the concern they have that the Unsullied won’t love the story as much as ‘you’ do. The show has ridiculous ratings. People love the show. I am the only Sullied in my household that watches the show – the rest love it and they never complain. They LOVE it. They are not confused, they don’t think anything has ‘jumped the shark’ or that anything was ‘stupid’. They gloss over little nit-picky things because they look at it as entertainment, and they are not emotionally invested into the characters as the Sullied are. So all the things you are upset about, the Unsullied don’t care about that at all, I would imagine. They are sad to see the shows ending credits every Sunday.

  192. Tauntaun13
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    The last track of the soundtrack pretty much confirms LS is in… Before launching into the usual Daenerys/Mhysa celebratory theme, it uses the Stark/North theme and I can’t find any reason other than LS for using it there.

  193. Ser Florian
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ,

    Cat’s resurrection is described/explained by, either, BwB members when they hang Merrett, or by Thoros when he’s talking to Brienne. Can’t remember which, I think it’s Thoros though. They can still do that in the show easy enough. Arya/Nymeria only see the body, pull it from the river, then run from men on horses. This is what makes Arya come to terms (?) with her mother’s death, because she sees the corpse in the dream, it ends her hopes of her mother being alive. Also tells us the fate of Cat’s corpse… and, in a way, we’ve had that through the exchange between Sansa and Tyrion in the first episode of this season.

  194. AK
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

    LS has potential to be awesome. We are forced to confront an evil character whose motivations we understand. It’s like Walter White in Breaking Bad – he does evil things, but we can see why he became this way. It splits the readership/viewership and keeps us engaged. It would be stupid to cut this out, as many have said.

    I think when the entire story is done, many of the haters will be proven wrong (as is often what happens). Keep in mind even the book readers are mid-story.

  195. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    arden,

    How come nobody on top of the wall can see the fire going in Tormunds camp 20 ft away from Castle Black

    I am going to note in my video review of the last ep that there was no way the Wildings on the south side could have seen the light of the fire Mance set on the north side–it would have been physically impossible if they were so close to the front of Castle Black AND down in a declivity. As for why they couldn’t see them on the wall…I don’t know about that either. But if D&D had left out their seeing the fire and using that as a signal, wouldn’t people have been bitching anyway? You just have to have some suspension of disbelief.

    -Forget that Gilly has a baby that wont stop crying

    The baby stopped crying when Ygritte was there…little Sam doesn’t cry all the time, just cries like a normal baby. He could have been asleep when she was walking by the camp. Also, they were all distracted by Ygritte and Styr’s confrontation.

    -Why is the NW leaving the defenses to the south in charge of Pyp and Sam and 5 other people when they know that Molestown was raided and that Wildlings are coming to Castle Black.

    At no point do we see ALL the men in CB much less ALL the men manning the southern side. You expect them to show each and everyone of them and their positions? That’s ridiculous. Plus Pyp was only manning a gate and he fell back to the suspended walkway as a rear position to shoot arrows. There were other NW men firing arrows down into the courtyard.

    -Why is there no tunnel defense when we had a scene with Alliser some random guy and Jon telling him “we can’t seal the tunnel because it’s our duty to protect it!111″ (The idea to send 6 men to defend the gate was an afterthought and an act of desperation by Jon)

    They didn’t say it was their duty to protect “it”…they said sealing it would prevent them from using the tunnel to ranging and therefore prevent them from performing their duties to protect…period. So they decided to rely on the steel gates to keep them safe until the outer one was breached and then 6 men were sent. For someone who criticizes others for not paying attention to detail, you’re not so good at it yourself.

    -What is the point of Mance signaling a fire for the people of the south If he is not even going to attack the Wall with them!! Why not send 3 giants instead of 2? One could hold open the gate (NW didn’t even attempt to stop him) and let Wildlings flood in

    I’ve addressed some of these questions in other posts so I’ll keep it short here. The attack was simultaneous. One giant takes up the width of the tunnel particularly if he is swinging a weapon or fighting with his arms. Wildings would have been in the way and/trapped behind the giant and would have been of no use. He didn’t use more Giants because he didn’t know what the defenses were and he didn’t want to risk what are his greatest weapons to such unknown risks.

    -Why is the NW taken by complete surprise at this attack, they have literally been setting this battle up for 8 episodes

    Complete surprise? That’s funny. I’m sure I saw a catapult or trebuchet used to launch massive arrows, barrels of oil and shrapnel prepped and ready, the ramps to drop the barrels were in place, the men were standing on the wall with their bows, they had little pots of fire at each post to light their arrows, ropes anchored and ready to lower men over the side of the wall to improve their aim at climbers AND they had that massive scythe and chain pulled up and ready to launch. That sounds like being prepared to me.

  196. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    Tauntaun13,

    Bran and The Children Of The Forest. The King In The North/Stark theme played as he went beyond the Wall last season. I’m betting on a Bran/Bloodraven/COTF scene closing out the finale.

  197. sati
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    Tauntaun13,

    Bran and The Children Of The Forest. The King In The North/Stark theme played as he went beyond the Wall last season. I’m betting on a Bran/Bloodraven/COTF scene closing out the finale.

    What do you think Oathkeeper is used on? The beginning and end sound much too dark for just Brienne and Hound fighting

  198. Bittersteel
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    I’m glad my favorite book character is Bran and he is pretty much awesometastic on the show. I am really hoping we get at least half the episode of Bran and Brynden Rivers doing some weirwood yoda stuff. Don’t really care for Stannis or any other storyline. I can’t wait this long.

  199. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    sati,

    I’ve heard some people say that there is a hint of the music that was used for The Hound-Bronn confrontation in ‘Blackwater’ in ‘Oathkeeper’. I have no reason to suspect that Brienne will have a huge battle with The Hound and bump into LS. A lot of people are going to be upset this Sunday, which is too bad. The episode could be the best ever, but many will only focus on the lack of a LS appearance.

  200. King of the Ashes
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    Bittersteel,

    half the episode? might be a bit much.

    but this is what i love about thrones. it appeals to so many people for so many different reasons. ingenious. some love the politics of king’s landing, the action and sword fighting seen all across westeros. the fantasy of Dany’s dragons and Bran’s warging, the history of the entire world, the family drama of the lannisters, the love stories sprinkled in… its so much packed into one entity. complete genius.

  201. sati
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Why do you think they wouldn’t include her, though? They filmed every epilogue and lady Catelyn has been mentioned, even obnoxiously this whole season.

  202. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ:
    Essentially I was hoping that they’d leave LS out and the complete lack of any information over such a long period of time had me optimistic but not certain.

    Them’s fightin’ words, Miss…! One more word…and another leech gets tossed on the barbie…for you!

    I do dislike that there has been minimal build-up, other than a name-drop here and there, over the season.

    (Still hoping for an LVS/Cat PoV chapter in TWoW!)

  203. fuelpagan
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ,

    I think the reason they avoided flashbacks is to allow them to happen during Bran’s visions once he reaches the tree. Bran plugged into the Weir network will allow D&D to fill in the back story, like the Tower of Joy and Maggy the Frog.

    Bran’s first vision will probably be her rescue from the river, Lord Beric and Thoros praying and her eyes opening. I doubt we will be introduced to her in the same way the epilogue did. That would be a complete deus ex machina, which I wouldn’t like.

    For me, Lady Stoneheart is the Lord of Lights way of punishing the Frey’s for violating Guest’s Rights. She also gives the Brotherhood a purpose for staying together after their original purpose of killing the Mountain is no longer a possibility. To give up Lady Stoneheart means you’re giving up more than just her character.

    You can see in the reviews how many are becoming weary of the bad guys getting a pass while the good guys are always punished. LS brings hope for justice against the Frey’s. It’s not until later we find out that the hope has strings attached.

  204. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    Redjoyish: I’m not saying it was not successful, but we’ve followed Daenerys for four reasons, in and out, while such an important family is basically left in the dark minus two scenes in two seasons and the mumblings of Reek. Balon is still alive!

    Maybe, just maybe Daenerys is a more important character than any of the Greyjoys?

  205. WeirwoodTreeHugger
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    Sunfyre:
    Troublesome Birdsong,

    Awesome post.This is something Martin excels at.He plays on our overwhelming desire to see the bad guys punished.To see the Starks emerge triumphant.I think the series is heading that way anyway but it is as if Martin is saying “not so fast.Nothing is that easy or simplistic in this world.I’m not going to give you your avenging angel.I’m going to give you the sad twisted husk of a human being you once cared about.”This makes the journey messy.It implicates and provokes the audience, forcing us to examine the price of justice.There is a lot going on with Lady Stoneheart, and much of it is between Martin and his readers.LS is meta.

    Well said. That’s why they need to leave it in. It’s hopeful. But it’s hopeful in the grim, dark ASOIAF style. It starts as a fist pump moment and becomes something else when the excitement dies down and you think critically about it.

  206. Ozymandias
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    The only glimmer of hope that is left for Lady Stoneheart is the “Dark Wings, Dark Words” track from last season like I said in a previous comment.

    “The Children” : Probably for Bran/COTF/Bloodraven or a montage with Arya/Bran/Sansa, way too happy for the Lady.

    “Oathkeeper” : Sandor Clegane vs Brienne (Blackwater scene with Bronn & Hound is a proof IMO)

    3 more days to find out. I’m almost sure there will be no Lady Stoneheart but I still hope I’m dead wrong which would be very surprising.

    End Credits can be silent though, like The Rains of Castamere.

  207. Jorah the Andal
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ,

    You did well there. I’ll be impressed if you can explain Ghost not coming to Jon’s defense when Styr is gaining the upper hand and smashing his face off of an anvil.

  208. Joel
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss),

    What are you babbling about? The show is going to be the only closure any of us get to the Ice and Fire storyline, since the book series has been spinning it’s wheels for 14 years (the last time a good, tightly edited novel was released). Life is to short to waste time complaining about things. I don’t spend my days posting over at Not-a-Blog complaining to Martin.

  209. Bittersteel
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    King of the Ashes,

    I think the Bran Arc was the best in ADWD but it was like over quickly which was kind of a bummer. Most of ADWD was pretty good except the parts where the dumbass Stannis is grinding his teeth at his dumbass soldiers while getting lost in the snow.

  210. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,
    fuelpagan,
    Sunfyre,
    Troublesome Birdsong,

    I’m giddy. Totally agree. Prepare for another level of darkness.

    There is rage after one has been killed fighting enemies before willing resurrection…then there is rage after seeing your family slaughtered as your last lingering image of reality before festering in death for 3 days…before being dragged to shore by a kindred direwolf and then forcibly resurrected. This is truly another level of rage and revenge.

    I’m giddy.

  211. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    sati,

    Maybe they were trolling book readers? I don’t think name dropping Catelyn a handful of times is much foreshadowing. Saying her body was thrown in the river could be, but not necessarily for this season. I just can’t get over that Jaime is going to Dorne in season 5, and not the Riverlands. This is why I could see LS not appearing until the end of next season. They could properly hint at her next season, with the Freys becoming a bigger part of the show. Plus, it would give next season a great final scene, that the 4th and 5th books may not be able to provide.

  212. mariamb
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan:

    I think the reason they avoided flashbacks is to allow them to happen during Bran’s visions once he reaches the tree. Bran plugged into the Weir network will allow D&D to fill in the back story, like the Tower of Joy and Maggy the Frog.

    Bran’s first vision will probably be her rescue from the river, Lord Beric and Thoros praying and her eyes opening. I doubt we will be introduced to her in the same way the epilogue did. That would be a complete deus ex machina, which I wouldn’t like.

    I love this suggestion… that we will be introduced to LS thru one of Bran’s vision after he arrives at Bloodraven’s lair. It is similar thematically to Arya’s wolf dream but keeps all of the visions/flashbacks in Bran’s storyline

    For me, Lady Stoneheart is the Lord of Lights way of punishing the Frey’s for violating Guest’s Rights. She also gives the Brotherhood a purpose for staying together after their original purpose of killing the Mountain is no longer a possibility. To give up Lady Stoneheart means you’re giving up more than just her character.

    Agree. With so many characters dying an untimely or unjustified death, its time to see someone fight back. I don’t imagine that she will be eliminated, especially knowing who is headed her way at the end of ADWD. I don’t particularly like the character as she is presented in the books but I think that her presence on the show could be very powerful.

  213. TommenFoolery
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    Ozymandias,

    Go look at Lina Heady’s Instagram ;)

  214. Ser Florian
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    sati,

    Which Epilogues are they? Merrett Frey is the first to appear. As I’ve said before, I’d love to see LS, and this would be a perfect episode to have her show up. But I haven’t heard any music, or seen anything to suggest that she’ll be in Sunday’s episode.

  215. sati
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap:
    sati,

    Maybe they were trolling book readers? I don’t think name dropping Catelyn a handful of times is much foreshadowing. Saying her body was thrown in the river could be, but not necessarily for this season. I just can’t get over that Jaime is going to Dorne in season 5, and not the Riverlands. This is why I could see LS not appearing until the end of next season. They could properly hint at her next season, with the Freys becoming a bigger part of the show. Plus, it would give next season a great final scene, that the 4th and 5th books may not be able to provide.


    I think they have Jaime in Dorne for few eps, this is not realy a big obstacle his journey can continue as in books after he returns. Other than Cat and the river mentions, we had 2 mentions of BwB, Bran’s dream last season, them not giving her the scars from scratches which would make make up department people’s life easier…it just seems like it’s happening, finally.

  216. sati
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    Ser Florian,

    I mean last chapters.

  217. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    Jorah the Andal:
    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ,
    You did well there. I’ll be impressed if you can explain Ghost not coming to Jon’s defense when Styr is gaining the upper hand and smashing his face off of an anvil.

    I’ve almost given up on the showrunner’s ability (via writing or via VFX) to do the direwolves justice….my pet peeve. One more caged direwolf though and I’m heading to Ireland with some Tears of Lys….

  218. mariamb
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    sati,

    Agree. Not sure why Jaime in Dorne in S5 means no LS now. Maybe Jaime doesn’t get back to the Riverlands until S6. Maybe he borrows Littefinger’s jetpack and does both in S5. Right now, none of us know with any degree of certainty whether or not we will see her in the finale. As another poster pointed out in another thread, an absence of evidence isn’t basis for a conclusion. Was there anything to indicate that we would see the Nights King…or whoever that was?

  219. sati
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    mariamb:
    sati,

    Agree. Not sure why Jaime in Dorne in S5 means no LS now. Maybe Jaime doesn’t get back to the Riverlands until S6. Maybe he borrows Littefinger’s jetpack and does both in S5. Right now, none of us know with any degree of certainty whether or not we will see her in the finale. As another poster pointed out in another thread, an absence of evidence isn’t basis for a conclusion. Was there anything to indicate that we would see the Nights King…or whoever that was?

    Especially that all this speculation about her being cut is unfounded. She wasn’t on the show yet because she wasn’t supposed to be there before the end of season 4. If she doesn’t appear in 10th episode that’s the time for the ‘is she cut?’ questions.

  220. maia
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    Ozymandias,

    or ‘The Children” = Dany’s dragons, I don’t want to get disappointed with the ending again.I’m still having nightmares with S3 ending, Dany’s britney spears concert like ending so I’ll just assume, they’ll end the season with another “Dany moment”

    I really want it to be LS….

  221. A Man Grown
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    Troublesome Birdsong,

    I think the best opportunity to watch a good guy become a bad guy will be Arya. My prediction is that in book 7 Arya will kill one or more “good guys,” maybe even someone like Tyrion.

  222. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    Jorah the Andal,
    Hodor’s Bastard,

    I don’t have an explanation for why Ghost wasn’t there to help Jon…I was thinking that during the fight…”where the hell is Ghost?!” And again, this is something I’ll be mentioning in my weekly recap/review IF I ever get to finish it. Only two things bothered me the entire ep–the fire thing and the Ghost thing. Everything else was excellent.

    EDITED TO ADD: After I hit Post, I realized there could be a reason why Ghost wasn’t there (other than VFX budget limitations). Jon and Ghost are connected and perhaps Jon was confidant during the fight, even when it was going badly….otherwise Ghost would have felt his need and come to his aid. That’s the kind of thing you can put in a book but not a TV show…the mental connection. Or maybe Ghost was occupied with someone else at the moment and couldn’t safely run to help Jon? That’s all I got.

  223. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    IMO your explanation is the best one I’ve seen yet about what LS means and how she is important to the story. And I like your idea on how she could be introduced too. That would definitely work. Thanks.

  224. mj
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

    I’m getting really worried that Jojen’s going to die this episode and that first picture isn’t helping

  225. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

    Dnis,

    I don’t particularly like the potential Jon resurrection, either, but I don’t see how it can be avoided. In the show, at least, we’ve already gotten a Melisandre-Thoros scene that strongly hints where things will end up with Jon in TWOW. And at least with Jon, the resurrection will likely happen almost immediately, making it akin to a failed assassination attempt (these are plentiful in the ASOIAF universe).

    Yeah, when I realized GRRM could bring him back, it almost pissed me off as much as his stabbing did. Selfish though it may be I don’t want a Jon that is missing part of himself, angry and only set on revenge even at the expense of good people like LS. However, I like your point about “failed assassination”. Maybe he’s not dead but just dying and she is able to heal him with magic and that’s different than him already being dead and resurrected? It’s a faint hope, but it’s all I’ve got.

  226. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ,

    Jon wouldn’t lose any part of himself because his soul would be alive inside of Ghost, until his body is revived by Mel. That’s what the prologue with Varamyr was all about.

  227. tiny direwolf
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

    About the wildings camped outside the gate. The NW knew they were coming and probably knew they were there but would not be drawn out of Castle Black. At least that is how I saw it :)

    Hey how do people get images other than the generic head silhouette by their user name?

  228. sati
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

    Oathkeeper played back in season 2 during the scene in which brienne swears an oath to Catelyn :)

  229. Ser Florian
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    tiny direwolf,

    GRAvatar is, I believe, the system that’s used. It works based on the email you use, I think. I set mine years and years ago, for another site, and it’s followed me since then, appearing on a couple places I’ve commented.

    https://en.gravatar.com/

    Also, yeah, it was said I a couple times that the Watch was needed, and strongest, at the Wall, that they couldn’t go chasing Wildlings South of the Wall, as that’s what the Wildlings would want. Alliser was initially against Jon’s sortie to Craster’s because everyone was needed at Castle Black and the Wall.

  230. Ser Florian
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    sati,

    So, does it signify Brienne’s Oath to Catelyn, and then Jaime, to see the Stark girls safe? Or Catelyn’s Oath to not hold Brienne back? I’m still going with the former, and that’ll be the music for Brienne meeting Arya and the Hound.

  231. Jaqenhqar
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

    I really hope they show Lady Stark. She’s my second favourite stark

  232. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Jon wouldn’t lose any part of himself because his soul would be alive inside of Ghost, until his body is revived by Mel. That’s what the prologue with Varamyr was all about.

    Good point! Okay, I have more hope now. It had occurred to me that it would be really cool if Jon could warg into the giant and save his body from further harm but we don’t know if he can do it and he probably can’t because to date, Bran is the only Stark who has that much power….. I guess they can show it like so…Jon sees his blood, he falls (who makes them stop attacking him?) and looks up at his attackers, we see his eyes go white, over to Ghost, we see his eyes go white, then Jon’s body looks dead but his heart is still beating, Jon/Ghost runs up to Melisandre, she realizes what’s going on, heals the body and then Jon lets go of his hold on Ghost? Or as he’s falling he wargs into Ghost who attacks the men and fends them off, Melisandre sees both their eyes are white and then steps in….

  233. fuelpagan
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ,

    Throw in a bleeding star, a smokey fire nearby, and a shot of salty tears in his killer’s eyes and you have a scene. ;)

  234. Maxwell James
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ,

    I have long thought that if Martin really wants to mess with our heads, the first chapter of TWOW will be titled “Ghost.”

  235. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan,

    It would indeed be a scene….I’d probably wet myself if ALL that happened you clever little pagan! :)

  236. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

    Maxwell James,

    I don’t put it past him, certainly. But, if he really wants to torture us, he’ll bury it after the middle or near the end of TWOW to make us wait to find out Jon’s fate. Or worse yet, no Jon chapters at all. That will make me ill.

  237. Turncloak
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    It would be an interesting choice if GRRM plans to fully kill off Jon Snow the human and have him live the rest of his life in Ghost. That would be interesting to read about but would come out as a bit funny on tv :-)

  238. Asfastasican
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

    arden:
    Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss),

    You really cannot criticize this show at all on this website man. I think people are just thankful that they can see Tyrion, Dany and Arya and they don’t take time to actually think about what is playing out on screen.

    - Wildlings are camped 20 yards outside Castle Black yet no one on top of the wall can see their fire.

    - Gilly is a faceless man and can change faces to get through the Wildling camp unnoticed.

    It’s hard to believe you are being serious. The books are obviously fool-proof and devoid of anything that doesn’t make sense, right? I bet you got a headache over the lack of unbelievably lame Scarecrows too?

    It’s a little pathetic that some of you expect a handful of us to “apologize” for how a TV show is portrayed and produced. It’s just a show and you don’t have to lose sleep over basic plot points regarding fictional woman carrying babies that somehow have more street smarts than you.

    It’s a TV show adaptation about a fantasy saga. Get over it.

  239. Saar
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

    Tatters:
    Wrath of the Gods,

    Ls is not hopeful or awesome by any means. She is biggest bitch since Joffrey. And unsullied are going to be frightened not pleased. Which is the point of Ls. She is no good.

    sometimes I don’t think people can place themselves in characters…
    her entire family was killed by the lannisters and freys and she litterally has nothing to live for, I wouldn’t be to understanding to some people either.
    Like her hanging Brienne, she thinks that Brienne switched sides to the lannisters, so why wouldn’t she want to hang her?

  240. Blood crow
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

    I predict we’ll see Mel in the north & Jon arriving back at Castle Black with team Stannis. If you look at the early trailers there is a shot of Mel by the wall apparently and one of Jon in the tunnel riding a horse which he didn’t have last ep.

  241. TommenFoolery
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    fuelpagan:
    Dutch maester,

    Vote or Die.”

    Guest starring “P.Diddy”

  242. obsisian
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    I strongly believe that Mel should have abso-effing-lutely nothing to do with Jon’s revival( note I didn’t say resurrection);)

    There are a couple of other characters that could do it, though we haven’t met them in the show, yet.. and there’s always Bran & his new friends.

  243. House Ray
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    The westeros.org finale “summary” thread got deleted. Guess it got too hairy. Guy is prob 90% BS but – it did sound very reasonable.

  244. House Ray
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

    To continue Based on the preview we get two important clips

    - Tyrion walking towards a small door with a crossbow
    - Tyrion peering through a small keyhole type thing

    The guy said he kills Tywin after peering through the doorhole on the bathroom. It seems legit to me…

  245. John M W
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    House Ray,

    …which anyone could have deduced from watching the preview.

  246. Ours is the Fury
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

    For any discussion of that supposed leak (which smells like a troll frankly, as the critics usually watch along with the audience at this point in the season), please mark it with more than the spoiler coding. There may be some changes that surprise even book readers, and so they’d have Spoiler Coding actually turned off. So please mark that stuff super carefully, as a courtesy, to give people warning if you start posting potentially major deviations.strong>

  247. strokememarge
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

    All this discussion over finales and fighting for an Iron Throne, you know who you all want, even if you don’t know it yet.

    Behold the First of Her Name……..

    http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/a9/75/c6/a975c656f5b4d340e401bb1bad47514f.jpg

  248. Hodor's Bastard
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

    Maxwell James,

    Yes! And the second chapter would be entitled “Stoneheart”. Followed by “Benjen”. Followed by “Rickon”. Followed by “Mercy”. Followed by “Penny”….

  249. House Ray
    Posted June 12, 2014 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

    Ours is the Fury:
    For any discussion of that supposed leak (which smells like a troll frankly, as the critics usually watch along with the audience at this point in the season), please mark it with more than the spoiler coding. There may be some changes that surprise even book readers, and so they’d have Spoiler Coding actually turned off. So please mark that stuff super carefully, as a courtesy, to give people warning if you start posting potentially major deviations.


    Good point. I’m sorry for that. Just grabbing at straws.

  250. Kit Hemmings
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 12:39 am | Permalink

    Dumb (Benioff) & Dumber (Weiss),

    okay I’ve gotta set this straight, Drogo does not RAPE Dany. In the book, she is a very young girl so sexual contact of any kind would be slightly traumatic so Drogo is very tender (relatively speaking). In the show, obviously they could not have a 14 yr old getting freaky with a 20-something so they had to communicate that trauma a different way. It’s not rape, she doesn’t kick and fight or anything, she just doesn’t know what to do and she’s frightened, not necessarily of Drogo, but of displeasing Drogo and angering her brother who is much MORE violent to her in the novel than in the TV show. The scene with Jaime and Cersei kind of blurred the line on the rape issue. To me, it was and it wasn’t rape. Yes, at first Cersei is putting up a fight, but then she stops fighting, she’s not clawing at Jaime’s face, she’s cupping his cheek. Keep in mind, the screenwriters of GoT have to communicate most or all of entire novel in 10 1-hour episodes, some things had to be changed, characters blended together, timelines sped up so we can get to the salient aspects of the story. For instance, Gendry is not the one that Melisandre takes from the brotherhood without banners, its another one of Robert’s bastards. Why is he not in the show, you might ask, because we don’t have that kind of time. Now as my last word, please everyone stop griping about who raped or didn’t rape who, who not there or is supposed to be someone else *cough cough*Talisa’s not in the books at all*cough cough* and just watch the show

  251. King in the North Carolina
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:01 am | Permalink

    Lady:
    As long we’re not shut out on the nudity twice in a row we’ll all be fine…thanks Grey Worm for bringing us Missandei!

    Amen!

    Don’t worry Grey Worm. I had enough of a boner for both of us.

  252. Troublesome Birdsong
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 1:27 am | Permalink

    A Man Grown:
    Troublesome Birdsong,

    I think the best opportunity to watch a good guy become a bad guy will be Arya. My prediction is that in book 7 Arya will kill one or more “good guys,” maybe even someone like Tyrion.

    That would make sense. I also like to think she might end up killing her mother.

  253. tiny direwolf
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:15 am | Permalink

    Ser Florian,

    Thanks for the Gravitar link!

  254. Mallister
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:19 am | Permalink

    Nerd,

    I assume you actually know there’s a difference between a pimple and changes to the plot that deviate so much from the original books it doesn’t feel like the same story anymore?

    (An enjoyable alternative story for the screen, excellently written and acted, but not “A Song of Ice and Fire” regardless)

  255. John M W
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:31 am | Permalink

    Mallister:
    Nerd,

    (An enjoyable alternative story for the screen, excellently written and acted, but not “A Song of Ice and Fire” regardless)

    It was never going to be. I have 5 massive books on my shelf if I want “A Song of Ice and Fire”.

  256. Greenjones
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:49 am | Permalink

    strokememarge,

    The best looking girl on the show. There’s no disputing it.

  257. Tyrion Pimpslap
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 2:57 am | Permalink

    Greenjones,

    Ahem, I’ll take Carice.

  258. Shock Me
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:26 am | Permalink

    Posting from app. Seems to work. Hoping for my favorite Tywin scene.

  259. wizardeyes
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:30 am | Permalink

    Okay so the confirmed stuff in this episode –

    Bran & Co Vs wights
    Bran & Co reach the cave and meet Bloodraven and the Children of the Forest
    Arya leaves the Hound for dead
    Brienne & Pod reach the Vale
    Jon treats with Mance
    Stannis arrives at the Wall
    Drogon kills kid – Dany has dragons chained up
    Jaime frees Tyrion
    Tyrion kills Tywin and Shae

    Probably/ maybe stuff

    The Hound receives his injuries from Brienne. The teaser sure made it look like that.
    Lady Stoneheart appearance.
    Osha & Rickon appearance. I’m sure I heard Natalia Tena say that she filmed one scene for season 4 so either she was messing with us, it was cut/ hasn’t been used or its going to be in this episode.
    Stannis offers to make Jon a Stark. If they have time for one Stannis/ Jon scene then I think they’ll end it on this cliffhanger.
    Jon being elected LC. I really don’t see how they’re going to have time to squeeze this in but hey maybe they will somehow.

  260. JamesL
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 6:44 am | Permalink

    Kit Hemmings,

    After the wedding night Drogo does rape Dany in the book, repeatedly. Many people seem to forget that.

  261. House Mormont
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    The problem with Lady Stoneheart is that while her character is great, she defies one of GRRM’S objectives of not making magic the answer, in possibly the biggest way. Death is now cheatable, as long as you have a God on your side, who’s existence/power were previously made ambiguous because you know magic isn’t the answer.
    After that, brutal deaths, which are kind of the defining point of the aSoiaF world, disappear. Cat Stark resurrected, numerous cliff-hanger fake deaths, now Jon being resurrected. It just feels cheaper

  262. House Mormont
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    Um can a mod spoiler tag that please I can’t see an edit button

  263. Valaquen
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    JamesL:
    Kit Hemmings,

    After the wedding night Drogo does rape Dany in the book, repeatedly.Many people seem to forget that.

    She even considers suicide because of how rough he is. I find it harder to read than to watch in the show.

  264. House Mormont
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    Btw she is pretty much guaranteed to be in the show because Ser Robert Strong is so much cheaper and so much more unnecessary and they seem to be going ahead with that

  265. Luka Nieto Garay
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    I see Robert Strong as a Frankenstein monster kind of thing, with Qyburn as the mad doctor. Not even that, actually: I imagine Clegane will be so close to death that he would usually be left for dead in this medieval world, yet Qyburn performs some dangerous, gross-looking surgery to save his life… but not his mind. So, there you have it: a plausible zombie Mountain, not magical in any sense, although it looks like it to medieval minds. It’s just speculation, but I doubt they will go with the “magical resurrector” for Qyburn, since in the show he has been set up as someone famous for unethical experiments; there’s been no mention of dark magic. Anyway, we will see what they did with that scene soon enough.

  266. Luka Nieto Garay
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    Kit Hemmings,

    That may one of the grossest things I’ve ever read. The fact that it is not a brutal rape does not magically turn it into consensual sex. She is an innocent CHILD, FORCED into marriage, and she does not enjoy it —not that this would change anything; physical enjoyment does not change the fact she was forced into it (victims of rape are often conflicted, as they are under the misunderstanding that no physical arousal can come from being raped.) In other words, you know what the word for forced sex is? RAPE. Also, she has very dark thoughts about it afterwards. Read it again. D&D simply made it more visually apparent, more outwardly brutal. But it was rape in the books. The fact that you think it wasn’t truly scares me.

  267. Tatters
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    Saar,

    She is turning into a Stannis version of Joffrey. Believe in her own sense of justice and that only. Even if she kills lannisters, im to root for this zombie? Fuck her, lord of light save Jaime and Brienne.

  268. fuelpagan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ,

    I really hope D&D avoid making Jon’s resurrection a cliffhanger until the next season and resolve it in the following episode.

    In the beginning, I loved how this story defied convention, but now GRRM has created his own convention that he repeats over and over again. What once was unpredictable, isn’t anymore. I’d like to see D&D avoid this and keep things unpredictable by playing the viewer straight for a change.

    GRRM needs to learn that if you always bluff, it’s easier to get called on it.

  269. fuelpagan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    Turncloak:
    Tyrion Pimpslap,

    It would be an interesting choice if GRRM plans to fully kill off Jon Snow the human and have him live the rest of his life in Ghost. That would be interesting to read about but would come out as a bit funny on tv :-)

    I see this happening with Arya eventually.

    Hodor’s Bastard:
    Maxwell James,

    Yes! And the second chapter would be entitled “Stoneheart”. Followed by “Benjen”. Followed by “Rickon”. Followed by “Mercy”. Followed by “Penny”….

    No way. The second chapter will be titled “Hodor”.

  270. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    Saar,

    Just because one thinks that LS is evil or bad doesn’t mean that one don’t understandher motivation. I totally understand where she is coming from and if I were in her shoes I can’t honestly say I would be a better person than she is. To judge characters based solely on whether they have good reasons to be angry, murderous, etc would allow you to accept all kinds of unacceptable behavior. Like Jaime, his motivation over the years has always been to protect the woman he loves and then later to get back to the woman he loves because she needs him. That doesn’t sound half bad. But when you get into the details about who she is, what he’s done and is willing to do, and how that affects other very good people, then we see clearly that he’s a villain (on a redemptive arc maybe, but still a villain). Consequences matter. The bigger picture matters.

    I can understand the motives (and have empathy) for just about anyone, that doesn’t mean I have to like them or want them in the story. And, of course, I recognize that I have zero say over all this but it’s still fun to debate.

  271. Ms. D. Ranged in AZ
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    fuelpagan,
    I agree. But I also hope that TWOW comes out and we know the resolution to that story line before the show does it.

    obsisian,
    I can’t stand Mel to be honest (she’s far too manipulative and I never like people who are always so certain about their actions–the mark of a fanatic and not rational at all). So I don’t want her to get her claws into Jon because in the books, she was just itching to control him. Then too, I think it would take away some of Jon’s agency and autonomy. One of the best parts of his journey is watching him grow up, make tough decisions and own the consequences of that. Him being in her debt (and in the debt of the Lord of Light essentially) would lessen who Jon is and his role in the overall scheme of things IMO.

    House Mormont,
    Exactly, her resurrection and then Jon’s seems like some kind of deus ex machina on steroids….and GRRM said he doesn’t want nor believe in that kind of thing. I hope it ends up being a red herring somehow.

  272. fuelpagan
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    House Mormont,

    The objective to not making magic an answer is more of a guideline. GRRM didn’t have a problem with magic being his answer to killing off Renly.
    I’m ok with specific resurrection based on it being the will of the Lord of Light. But GRRM is bordering on abusing this “power”. He should have mixed in some examples of this not working in order to keep the mystery alive. (Will the Lord of Light grant this life back or not?) However, Robert Strong is the one that really cheapens it for me. And I see more “I faked my death, but I’m really alive” existing. GRRM’s overuse of that is bothering me as well.

  273. Saar
    Posted June 13, 2014 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    Tatters:
    Saar,

    She is turning into a Stannis version of Joffrey. Believe in her own sense of justice and that only. Even if she kills lannisters, im to root for this zombie? Fuck her, lord of light save Jaime and Brienne.

    I’m not telling you to root for her, she is a grey character, but I totally understand her motivations

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ:
    Saar,

    Just because one thinks that LS is evil or bad doesn’t mean that one don’t understandher motivation.I totally understand where she is coming from and if I were in her shoes I can’t honestly say I would be a better person than she is. To judge characters based solely on whether they have good reasons to be angry, murderous, etc would allow you to accept all kinds of unacceptable behavior.Like Jaime, his motivation over the years has always been to protect the woman he loves and then later to get back to the woman he loves because she needs him.That doesn’t sound half bad.But when you get into the details about who she is, what he’s done and is willing to do, and how that affects other very good people, then we see clearly that he’s a villain (on a redemptive arc maybe, but still a villain).Consequences matter.The bigger picture matters.

    I can understand the motives (and have empathy) for just about anyone, that doesn’t mean I have to like them or want them in the story.And, of course, I recognize that I have zero say over all this but it’s still fun to debate.

    I’m not trying to make anyone like her, but if I was here I would want Jaime dead too, I mean he tried to kill her child after all and one of the last things she heard before her son was killed before her eyes was Jaime Lannister sends his regards. I am not saying I’m on her side, but I can understand where she is coming from. She is a grey character, like (almost) all characters in asoiaf.

  274. Harrold Hardyng
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

    Redjoyish,

    Throw in the Craster’s Keep mess and Arya and the Hound’s illogical trek into the Vale and you UNDERSTAND. Great season with a handful of head scratcher scenes mixed in.

  275. Harrold Hardyng
    Posted June 14, 2014 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

    Kit Hemmings,

    Asfastasican,

    No one has asked for an apology. I am not sure you are actually comprehending what is written here. Better luck next time.

  276. Pau Soriano
    Posted June 15, 2014 at 10:26 am | Permalink

    JamesL:
    Lady Stoneheart is a shit character and should be cut.It will not get a positive reaction, it will be considered a jumping the shark moment by many of the unsullied just like the shadowbirth in season 2. All this season people have been so sure that she will be in the finale and I’ve never believed it, I just don’t see such a ridiculous and cheesy character being included in the TV show.The fact that so many are so confident that she will show up has me almost looking forward to all the nerd tears if she gets cut.Please tell me I’m not alone in my strong dislike for this character, it seems like everybody is so desperate to see this character on the show.Am I the only one who wants her to be cut?

    I’m with u

  1. […] el adelanto que os pusimos hace unos días, gracias a Winter is Coming, os mostramos unas imágenes inéditas en las que veremos a Bran (Isaac Hempstead-Wright), Arya […]

  2. […] includes a fight so VFX-heavy that it most likely wouldn’t even be ready until this month. Photos from the finale were released on Wednesday, highlighting Daenerys, Arya, Bran and […]


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